Great article. I like the fact that you’re now including hyperlinks to previous articles as sources for your statements. I will say, though, that reading the text is difficult at times because of the contrast between the normal black text and an underlined blue segment. Just a thought for the designers. Maybe a light gray or a lighter underline?
Keep up the good work.
This is the second time we have abandoned Afghanistan, but then again, why isn't Afghanistan capable of defending itself after all these years, deaths of American military and civilians, and billions of American dollars?
1
Afghanistan has been at civil war for most of the last 50 years. While American withdrawal may lead to violence, the Afghan war is not winnable. It is an unfortunate reality that America cannot be the world's peacekeeper.
2
Why do people consent to send their young men and women into these wars, then get cold feet and run away? Handing the country back to civil war and probable Taliban victory renders everything the US fought and died for over there as a complete waste. Dying for nothing. Do you think terrorism won’t return to a Taliban-ruled Afghanistan? That this time might be different, despite the world being in as big a mess as it was near two decades ago? That a hundred new Bin-Laden’s won’t conceive new devastating plots and recruit new fanatics in the safe harbour of a Taliban-held country once again?
I agree with Trump's decision to withdraw from Syria - the goal was never clear. "Defeating ISIS" is euphemism for open ended and indefinite presence, like George Bush's "war on terror"; ISIS is first and foremost an extremist ideology and if one is serious about defeating ISIS and its extremist ideology, you have to go after Saudis - but of course Trump (to be fair, other American Presidents were not any different) is firmly behind the Saudi King.
People who are talking about abandoning our "allies" in Syria and moral obligation etc. - it seems we have very selective moral obligation. US has done nothing when Assad was killing and gassing civilians by hundreds of thousands in the civil war. Furthermore, Kurds didn't help us "defeat" ISIS, we helped them "defeat' ISIS. They were fighting ISIS in the interest of self preservation, not as a favor to us. We helped them with aerial support and intelligence.
Afghanistan, however, is different. We invaded that country, we bombed all over the country and killed countless civilians. There was Congressional approval for invasion and whether one agreed or not, there was debate about the goals to achieve. I agree that the military solution does not seem to be working there after more than a decade; however, I believe we have a moral obligation to that country.
1
Is there a reason people are missing concerning President Trump’s troop withdrawals from Syria and Afghanistan? Not long ago, Mr. Trump was being criticized and even ridiculed for his failure to have yet visited a war zone. What better way to avoid visiting troops in a war zone than eliminate war zones altogether? It may be as simple as Mr. Trump's pure fear of being in harms’ way. It may be a simple matter of cowardice.
"For many in the Afghan leadership, shock quickly turned to a sense of betrayal."
Of course, the Afghan leadership has to feel that way. They are getting rich with the amazing corruption they have put in place. Report after report the evidence of the absolute corruption in the Afghan government has been presented. That is also the reason why they do not want a peace agreatment neither. For them is a win-win position. USA should have been out of that country a long time ago, but the military is obsessed with the supposely strategic benefit comimg out of the geographical position of Afghanistan vis-a-vis China.
4
Sounds like there were no military history lessons at the New York Military Academy?
Afghanistan has a history of getting rid of enemies that try to take over the country, regardless of how many Afghanis, mostly civilians, have been killed by their enemies.
Remember the occupation by the USSR from 1979 to 1989?
Same story, military occupation, huge losses at the beginning on the Afghanistan side, huge money transfers into Afghanistan without any effects and after that a complete standstill with large casualties and a withdrawal with their tails between their legs while the local warlords and clans persist.
The very same happens here with the US, but with better/nicer publicity.
Betrayal?
No, this is the US way of going to war and has been since WW2.
Just look at Vietnam, Iraq and you will understand that this was to be expected.
No US politician and no US military ever understood this illegal war and no one ever will.
There wasn't even much of real reason for the US to occupy Afghanistan in the first place.
In a few years we will see Hollywood movies about the many heroes of the Afghanistan war and their PTSD.
And the next war will begin.
1
We don’t want to be there and they (the Afghans) don’t want us to be there. So why is this event even being questioned? Just get out.
2
Not soon enough because after 17 years of chasing Taliban and trillion$ of wasted taxpayers' hard earned cash, Afghan's army of Flintstones still runs away from battles with the Taliban. We've been propping up a regime whose citizens have neither the collective willpower nor interest in defeating the Taliban.
2
The chart of US troops in Afghanistan ignored Obama's first escalation of about 20,000 troops a few months (March?) after he was sworn in.
Afghans are alarmed and feel betrayed by Trump? Well, so are most Americans.
As much as I detest Trump as President, and especially his know-nothing approach, it's time to get out of Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not Syria. The only Afghanis who feel betrayed are the upper crust of corrupt officias who live off our largess. The mass of the people want us gone. It's time to leave, 17 years is enough, how long?
2
"likely to complicate the American push for peace talks with the Taliban, which requires maintaining pressure, or at least holding the line, on the battlefield"
American soldiers are supposed to die for the sake of appearances at the peace talks?
First, the opponents won't be fooled.
Second, that is just wrong to do to our people.
4
The Afghan government abandoned by her own people does not deserve the continuing support of the US after 17 years. Nation building in a tribal society who can hardly feed her own people has been a bad idea and a corrupted democracy is the last Afghan people need.
4
We can envision the Resistance to Trump marching through the streets in the US chanting:
"Don't stop the war in Afghanistan.
Keep the troops there, now!"
I can also envision the Resistance members joining the US military in order to walk the talk we hear on the NYT's OP-ED pages. No?
5
Enough is enough, it was over 17 years ago when President Bush announced on October 7, 2001 of our invasion of Afghanistan.
It is time we bring our troops back and let the Afghans sort it out. We have given them tons of money during these 17+ years and if they are not ready they would never be ready and would keep bleeding our resources till we finish.
Previous administrations should have paid heed to then a Pakistani politician who wanted negotiations with Taliban to resolve the Afghan/Taliban issue. Trump sent Zalmay to Pakistan and finally paying heed to Imran Khan's proposal of negotiating with Taliban.
Time to bring our troops back, on a lighter note we may use them for building the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for.
5
Will the Russians now try and finish off what they started in the late Carter and Reagan years when they invaded Afghanistan? There won’t be any American officials giving stinger missiles to the Taliban to shoot Russian planes out of the sky so the going should be a bit easier. Was the eventual annexation and occupation of Afghanistan part of the Trump/Putin exchange for Trump hotels in Moscow? And a casino in Petersburg?
A sense of betrayal? Don’t be ridiculous, we’ve been fighting there for 17 years!!!
4
Our Dear Leader is brilliant. Criticized for not visiting US troops in combat zones - what to do? Simple. If there are no troops in combat zones, Dear Leader can’t be critiqued for golfing rather than pretending to care about those who serve under his command. "Bring them home so I don't have to go".
3
Obviously output from the joint US/Taliban meeting. Reading between the lines.....what's the conclusion?
who are we kidding? Afghanistan is a bottomless pit in which all the aid we sent and fighting we do on their behalf was for naught. The narrative we were sold is we were helping a brave but overwhelmed people against a foe armed by outsiders. In fact the Afghan people have no unity, no willingness to fight for their country, and nothing we do is going to change that.
7
About time the US is leaving Afghanistan, this country has become a quagmire just like Vietnam during the Vietnam war. This should have happened a long time ago. The only winners of this war is the military industrial complex.
7
Unfortunately Afghanistan is the one country it is this nation's interest to strongly support. The Taliban are the ones who were there at the beginning, ruling the country at the time when it sheltered and shielded Osama bin Laden. The Taliban are a hated force there, subjugating the people to drastic Islamic law of the worst kind, with a people who are historically heterogeneous in makeup and relatively independent in conducting their various lives and communities.
2
@Pat - So what are you saying? Continued extraordinary financial and military support for . . . . another 17 years? Do tell.
1
End of an era.
Trump is on to something: British Empire ended there; Russian Empire ended there--help of CIA, bin Laden, and a shoulder-fire missile called Stinger; and now the American Empire can either save itself from more madness or continue the Pelosi-Schumer dance of death. So which is it America?
6
If Congress doesn't start to put this guy under some sort of vigorous and aggressive control, Putin will be happily standing astride the ruins of the West.
On 12 March 2014 the government announced with little fanfare that the mission was formally completed with a flag lowering ceremony held in Kabul. The last 84 soldiers left Afghanistan on 15 March 2014, ending Canada's twelve-year military presence in the country. A total of 159 Canadian Forces personnel have been killed in the war since 2002. And for what? Would it be better to let them sort themselves out by themselves? Instead of being dependent on foreign powers.
2
If the best the best can do is achieve a stalemate for 18 years;then it may be time to leave You will never meet a general who will tell you we cannot defeat the enemy. The Taliban are not going anywhere they are already home. How many billions in aid has been looted and is sitting in Dubai? It is the same model we used in Vietnam.
If not now ;then when?
3
Everyone who knows me, knows I am rabid anti-Trump. But I wholeheartedly agree with Trumps decision to get out of Syria and Afghanistan. Being the Worlds policeman is extraordinarily expensive, not to mention, dangerous. Any other nations care to step up? I invite Russia and/or China. By far, the absolute best way to bankrupt ones enemy. And achieve nothing in the process.
6
Enough has been said of Trump.
Now is the time to ask, do Republicans have a bottom or are they content to see our nation and the world burn for a chance at stock tips, dark money and the levers of power?
Republicans and Trump are one and the same. Compromised, corrupt and traitorous.
The real problem now is that our founding father never conceived of treason on this scale and provided no remedy. The road ahead is going to test our beliefs, patriotism and will.
The globe can not survive a United States of America in anarchy.
1
I have a question... why do we need to supersize the defense budget if we're pulling out of these overseas engagements? Or are we going to give that $ to the countries to defend themselves? (Sorry, I smell a Trump / Kushner scam here).
I applaud Trump's order to bring back around 7,000 troops from Afghanistan. USA and the Ghani regime cannot , repeat cannot, defeat a battle hardened, home grown,clever and patient Taliban. Whereas US spent Billions of dollars in " Training " the government troops, those troops are still massacred by the Taliban. And how come,Taliban need no training. The whole drama of " staying the course " and " if we do not fight them there , we will have to fight them here " is a bogus and fraudulent argument, to perpetuate the military-industrial- armament manufacturers nexus. Declare victory and come back asap. Bring back ALL the US troops. If we could not dominate the Taliban when we had 150,000 troops and an equal number of " vendors " ( read mercenaries ),how could 14,000 troops be victorious ?Can the generals answer this question.
3
How long until Michael Moore calls for a "renewed commitment" to send US soldiers into the middle east?
Trump is actually right in this one.
The only people that want troops to remain are our "allies" and people reading the New York Times from the comfort of their co-ops in NYC. This war is 17 years old now. End it!
5
This is just the start of Trump fulfilling his campaign promise to Putin. Withdraw American military from all overseas bases, destroy Nato and the European Union. Praise Putin often, deny he interfered in our 2016 election and afterwards and create chaos and division in America. Trump's family will be rewarded with huge funding from Saudi and Russia. When caught and exposed deny and lie .have your lackey AG shut down investigations of him and his family. Issue a general pardon to all fraudsters in his administration and members at Mar-A-Lago. Run a fire sale on foreign policy when you realize that the game is up and the walls are closing in ,cash in ,transfer treasury funds to Ivanka and pack up the silver ware for when you exit as any con artist grifter would do.
2
For all the people who worked for /fought along with the U.S. government in Afganistan, Iraq or Syria, their lives are now in peril. So as in the case of Hmong in Laos or Vietnamese, will the U.S. allow them to settle in the USA?
or will the U.S. turn a blind eye?
Some United 450,000+ people came from Vietnam and some 200,000 Hmong currently live in the U.S. as a result of U.S. programs or UN programs.
References:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orderly_Departure_Program
https://www.pbs.org/splithorn/story1.html
https://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/resources/vietnamese-american.php
1
We don't need to be a cop for the Middle East. Israel will need to defend itself. Their leaders are hot heads like the GOP and will probably get into a war with Iran sooner. Since they don' t believe in compromise then that is on them. We should not send troops to fight their fake wars also.
3
In the 1980's the US supported the mujahideen, which morphed into the Taliban. The is a military force in Afghanistan, which we apparently successfully trained, without any troops on the ground. After 17 years in Afghanistan, we have not managed to train the government backed military to be an effective force without us. How much longer do we give them. The Taliban will come back once we're gone, whether it is in 2019 or 2059. The leadership there doesn't want us to leave because it is making many people rich. This is an endless, bottomless pit and it is not worth our blood or treasure.
2
Many false and misleading statements in this comment section, beginning with the the tired cliche of Afghanistan being the "Graveyard of Empires." Afghanistan has been conquered by foreign empires at least a dozen times during its history. A more accurate cliche would be "Quagmire for non-Muslim imperial powers."
Another one: The U.S. has not been in Afghanistan for 17 years, rather it has been in Afghanistan about 6 times for 2-3 years at a time. This number reflects the number of times that U.S. policy, or absence of policy, has undergone drastic shifts. There has never been any continuity in U.S. policy on any of the issues involving Afghanistan.
Finally, very little of the hundreds of billions of dollars that we have spent in Afghanistan, including the money designated for foreign assistance, has actually gone to the Afghan people. The vast majority of the funds have been spent on security contracts to protect Western officials and aid workers, or for supporting U.S. and coalition troops.
The actual consequences of cutting the U.S. force level in half will most likely be a U.S. withdrawal from bases in the south (Kandahar Air Field) and east (Jalalabad Air Field), thus ending air support for Afghan forces in the south and east, which is essentially ceding these regions to the Taliban. If we are going to cut and run, why go only halfway?
The Afghan government has raised corruption to a new level. For them to feel betrayed by ANYTHING America does is just too darn bad. The tone of the Times article brings American self-flagellation to a new level. Trump's decision may be wrong and its announcement may have been heavy-handed, but the Times is presenting a story that should be objective news reporting as, instead, an opinion piece.
4
Americans don’t love peace so much as simple-minded, knee-jerk solutions to every problem. We love impulsively, blindly stumbling into a war as much as impulsively,blindly stumbling out of one. Look at all these cheers for Donald Trump. Despite all the complex problems his simple solutions have failed to solve, people are still prepared to fall for the same con, over and over again. We just want our leaders to lie to us and say there is a simple, easy, have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too solution to every problem.
Them problem is, stumbling out of wars is much harder than stumbling into one. Get ready for Trump to do a 180 within a few months on Syria and Afghanistan, and pretend he never made any promises about withdraw to begin with.
1
How long are we expected to babysit these people to the tune of billions of our hard-earned dollars and thousands of lost American lives. Enough!!! No one will succeed in dragging Afghanistan into the 21st century against their will. They’ll either create a functional state, or they won’t. Their choice...and they can live with the consequences.
3
I love that, just like Nixon, Trump is going to end up ending all of the wars that liberals have been protesting for the last decade and they will still hate him for it haha. I am very happy to hear that our young men and women will be coming back home. They have been there for far too long, it’s time to bring ‘em home.
5
Ancient tribal hatred and tribal loyalties still rule the roost in them wildlands. It's plainly apparent that a non-Muslim, non-Afghani power cannot police that country and force it to adopt a Western-style democracy. The warring tribes should be allowed to play and slay until some day they realize their follies and announce that they've grown up to be adults and and are willing to enter the community of civilized countries! It's too late for any foreign force to thrust a democratic, peaceful government there.
2
Let's be clear and honest. Ashraf Ghani is a puppet of US and was foisted upon the Afghan people thru a fraudulent and corrupt " election ". The people of Afghanistan support the Taliban. No questions about it. Otherwise how could a militarily defeated and dispersed Taliban rag tag force fight for 18 years and come back to govern more than half of the country. Of course Taliban are poorly armed and have fewer resources compared to their enemies. But they are resilient and have proved their mettle in the battlefield ( and without any so called training for which US spent Billions on the puppet regime troops ! ) I think , this is the proper time for the Afghan government officials to pack up their suit cases, stuffed with dollars, and start looking for places to hide, such as UAE, India , US and Turkey. Otherwise they will meet the same fate as that of Dr Najibullah, who ruled the country as a USSR puppet.
3
Betray our friends. This is the Trump Doctrine. Nothing else.
1
Most commenters completely miss the point.
Whether troop draw-downs are the right way to go in this specific instance, you don't suddenly pull the rug out from under the people trying for some stability before you withdraw.
It's that simple.
Pulling surprises like this is plain stupidity and will cost many lives.
3
@Phil Carson says: "...don't suddenly pull the rug out from under the people." - So after 17 long years of spoon feeding and nation building, USA shouldn't be fed up and just quit? ...But give ample notice and spend many more billion$ of taxpayers' money for a gradual withdrawal? Remember: The Russians had cut and run after just 8 years of occupation.
2
We have been there for 14 years. High time we left. Afghanistan is a "forever war."
1
Trump repeatedly criticized Obama for telegraphing the withdrawal of U.S. troops, and now he does the same for ISIS, et. al., in Syria and Iraq?
1
To further understand Trump’s motivation for withdrawing our troops from Syria, we need to remember the mantra from Watergate— FOLLOW THE MONEY.
Trump cronies like Eric Prince — the former CEO of mercenary military contractor Blackwater, who is the brother of Trump cabinet member Betsy DeVos — stand to make billions of dollars from US government contracts for replacing our highly disciplined and monitored troops with freelance guns for hire.
16
Who is to blame for the American failure or defeat in Afghanistan after 17 years? It's easy to place blame on GWB who ordered the invasion or on Obama who missed the few opportunities for a negotiated political settlement or on Trump who orders the withdrawal. But the blame should be placed on the culture and herd mentality of the Washington foreign policy establishment. Many in the establishment pointed to the lessons of Vietnam and vowed not to repeat it and yet they themselves still repeated the mistakes of ignoring the history, of seeing the contest in terms of winning and losing, of relying on the sheer firepower of the US military, of trusting the Pentagon and generals in making honest assessment of the state of the conflict.
The war in Afghanistan was unnecessarily prolonged because Bush and Obama were afraid to end it lest them be blamed for another American defeat. The Talibans knew that American patience is limited and they were willing to wait until the US decides to cuts it loss and withdraw.
The tragedy here is that the war was a war of choice that could have been avoided had the American political leadership were humble and heeded the lessons of history. Instead thousands of lives were lost and destroyed and the outcome will most likely be the same.
50
As someone who was drafted during the Vietnam war, I witnessed how wrong our military generals were. We have been at war in the Mideast well over 15 years. With thousands of America military dead and trillions wasted, we are not any safer than before our going to war. I know that much of the opposition against the Vietnam war was because of the draft. I wonder if the Senators and media elites would support these wars if they had to actually serve in these wars. We must end our military involvement around the world.
68
here. here.
4
@Pepperman-Agreed, but let's not leave countries worse off than before we entered them.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/24/iraqs-post-isis-campaign-of-revenge
1
The war in Afghanistan costs US taxpayers $45 billion a year.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/pentagon-says-afghan-war-costs-taxpayers-45-billion-per-year
So, the savings of pulling out would pay for the border barrier nine tines over in one year.
3
Isn't 17 years of our blood and treasure enough? Whatever the plan was, it seemed to have no end. Enough already. Foreign societies need to fix themselves internally, and the end result may not conform well to an American ideal. Perhaps our ideal should be the process of self determination.
4
Perhaps when they are in charge of their own future they will take any actions that are required. After all we spent a lot of time, money and dead citizens to assist them. It is far past time for them to repair their own country, we might still assist, but only somewhat.
9
“It’s clear that a rapid pullout of all international forces could spark the collapse of the Afghan government and start a new civil war,”
And a slower pullout would make them want the puppet government we have set up more? The only way that government would stay is if we stayed there forever and we can't. Afghanistan has been living the way they live for thousands of years and they never bothered the U.S. so why must we bother them?
12
Since 2003, the US has overthrown or tried to overthrow governments in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Yemen, among others. This foreign policy of endless war destroys countries, kills our soldiers, and deprives our country of needed investments in education, health, infrastructure, science, and social welfare.
So for once Trump is right. Bring the troops home.
17
@Kevin Cahill More than once, most of his proposed policies are correct for our citizens and mostly for the world as well.
5
I agree. Nicely stated.
It is the only decision up to this point I’ll agree with about this child President.
And I don’t agree with how he did so, not his isolationist positions.
He’s a dangerous man to place any trust in.
@Kevin Cahill
The United States absolutely never tried to overthrow the Afghan government, the Egyptian government, the Syrian government, nor the Yemeni government. I am acutely familiar with the Afghanistan situation because I read two volumes on the Afghan conflict by Steve Coll (Ghost Wars and Directorate S), and this never happened. The Egyptian government of Hosni Mobarak was supported by Washington until the Arab Spring, which had nothing to do with the United States. The Syrian government has not ever been a friend of the United States but they were an ally of the Americans during the 1991 Gulf War. Yemen is a tragedy plain and simple, and it's simply ridiculous to make your above statement. Please state your evidence, although the Iranian government was overthrown in 1953 when the CIA drove Mossadegh out.
The alternative course of action — the status quo — appears to be indefinite war with no goal, no strategy, and no exit. 17 years and thousands upon thousands of casualties. One would think that the Afghans would be ready with their own security forces by now. What Trump is proposing is insane, but so is the status quo. Escalate it and “win”, whatever that means, or get out.
6
Putin and other Russian figures must be laughing themselves to sleep. And why not? We effectively created the Mujahadeen rebel force fighting Russia just to poke Russia's eye, and now we are basically conceding the game, at horrendous cost, to the same enemy. I think those who keep harping on about not conferring with our Military "experts" might look back at their track record.
6
I share all comments below expressing puzzlement iver Afganistan reaction of betrayal.
If anything - we have been betrayed by 16 years of loss of American lives and our Treasury.
America went in there to get Osama who was shielded by an Afghan government in power.
When it fell, we helped organize a government chosen through a ballot box - the old fashioned way.
But Afganistan - never shedding it's corrupt ways - it's leaders could never put personal corruption aside for national good.
If anything - our soldiers are now used more as a proxy to fight internal battles.
And Afghans need to dust up history books. No external power ever helped Afghans save themselves from each other in it's long history of blood letting.
So, the betrayal is emphatically ours.
9
@Neil: "we helped organize a government chosen through a ballot box - the old fashioned way". Therein lies the problem. The "We" part was not liked by a majority of the population and that's why they are in the trenches after 17 years of outsider intervention.
1
@Neil We went in there in the Carter/Regan years to stop the Russians. We created the Taliban or at least set them up in Afghanistan because they weren’t Russian Communists. We should have stayed home then.
1
Alarm and a sense of betrayal?
I would remind the offended Afghan government that we have spent much of the last 17 years doing something we didn't go there to do - nation building while we try to root out the Taliban.
What have we lost? How many dead servicemembers? Over 2,300. How many wounded, blown up and dismembered? Over 20,000. How much have we spent there? CBO says over $2.4 TRILLION. How much has changed in Afghanistan? Little, from what I saw in 2008, and little, from what I've read and seen since.
Enough is enough. We're leaving you to your country, the Graveyard of Empires. You can have it, and so can anyone else who thinks they can take it from you.
36
@Citizen Yes and if they ever cause us trouble we should totally destroy their country.
1
I'm not a fan of using military force, but Trump is withdrawing troops from Syria and Afghanistan, where they have been engaged in conflict with those who would do us or our allies harm. Meanwhile, he deploys the military along our border with Mexico, to fight an essentially non-existent threat born of campaign rhetoric and nurtured by a narcissistic and petulant worldview. I would not be surprised if he sent some of these troops leaving Syria and Afghanistan to our southern border.
4
@Larry:You sound like you are fired up about our commitment to Syria and Afghanistan. Did you join the US military to see that commitment through? Would you want your children or grandchildren to do the same?
Yes, I served a tour in Vietnam with the Army.
2
After 17 years in Afghanistan and the expenditure of hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of US casualties it is time to leave. What do we have to show for our efforts? Isn't it time that the Afghans take charge and provide for their own security? After so many years there you would think the Afghans have a viable security force. And if we did stay how much longer?
18
It is high time for all countries to stop nursing on usa’s teat and stand on their own. Billions of dollars and thousands of lives and bodies dedicated to the “cause” and we’re no further ahead than when we first engaged.
Sooner or later the dance ends, finally the light at the end of the tunnel is not the oncoming train but the end of the ride.
Had we directed the trillions to developing and growing our country we would have attained the lofty position of global power not the weak sister we are today.
20
Afghanistan- where Empires go to die. having said THAT, our departure will lead to a bloodbath of Revenge by the Taliban.
3
@Lefthalfbach Only if those in that country don't fight for themselves.
2
@Lefthalfbach:"Afghanistan- where Empires go to die. having said THAT, our departure will lead to a bloodbath of Revenge by the Taliban."
Both sides of your mouth at the same time. You got a two-for there.
So do we stay or go? If we stay will you join the military to walk the talk?
Please do tell.
1
I almost never agree with Senator Graham. But he is completely correct that President Trump's reckless decision to pull out of Syria as well as half our troops out of Afghanistan will create a power vacuum, just as it did when we pulled out of Iraq.
Nobody wants a perpetual war. Nobody wants our troops in harms way indefinitely, and at tremendous financial cost. But there's a right way and wrong way to accomplish this goal, and President Trump's impetuous, petulant way of managing international affairs damages not only the United States, but the world. But, according to him, he knows more than all the generals.
Having a banner that reads "Mission Accomplished" or tweeting that "ISIS is defeated" does not mean those things are true. Of course, ISIS will roar back, probably by 2020, when the crisis could be left to a Democratic administration. As Secretary Mattis said in his resignation letter, we need to work with our foreign partners to help accomplish our military goals. No man, and no country, is an island.
11
@jrinsc With us and our lack of a plan out of the way, I suspect Russia and Assad will make short work of ISIS.
1
I feel a sense of betrayal and I'm an American. Cannot imagine how betrayed the people of Afghanistan must feel.
But I believe there is absolute truth in the statement that Trump's "impatience with the war was winning out." He is extremely impetuous and impulsive. He acts and reacts on bizarre emotional levels rather than staying cool and leading with a calm, collected and intelligent focus. He tends to cater to temper tantrums than reasoning and sound thinking. This isn't new to us, but I'm sure it's a real eye opener and shocker for Afghan leadership and officials.
The phrase, "Welcome to our world" is meant with the utmost respect and kinship with what we have been experiencing for the past two years.
5
We have been more than patient with the situation in Afghanistan. I hope we have learned our lesson there.
4
@M Davis. We created the situation in Afghanistan.
The reason Individual 1 withdrew from Syria is because of Putin's bidding, which he is afraid he may not be able to fulfill after the Democrats take over the house due to the possibility of impeachment, etc. So Putin called in his timely favour. The reason troops are being withdrawn from Afghanistan is because the suspicion of collusion would intensify if he only pulled back from Syria and not from Afghan, where there is even less reason for a US presence. It is wrong that the allies are not informed or even reasonably prepared. It is more wrong that American voices on the ground were until very recently sending the exact opposite message, as reported in this article. It is unimaginably wrong that the Pentagon was blindsided. But no matter how, I'm glad this is coming to an end, as ugly as the end may appear to onlookers. There is an old indian saying, "Relationships always end badly. Because if not, they wouldn't end at all."
3
A complete U.S./NATO pullout will give Afghans a real chance at reconciliation, peace, stability, and development. I served in Afghanistan on behalf of USAID, DoS, DoD, Centcom, from 2002 to 2011, and I saw Obama's surge exponentially increase hostility and violence. There were areas in southeastern Afghanistan that I would regularly visit and enjoy raw nature and simple but beautiful Afghan lifestyles. And after Obama's surge, that and other areas in the country became increasingly hostile and violent. Trump should pull all the troops out. It's better than what the U.S. is doing right now, like pushing for women's rights while killing Afghan women and children with errant air strikes. Bring 'em home, and let the Afghans have a chance at peace. They can figure out like they have for 1000s of years. Finally, Afghanistan will not become a save haven for terrorists like it did after the U.S. abandoned in early 1990s. This time we can mainstream the Taliban into the international community with a carrot and stick approach. Also, the Taliban never posed a threat to American national security. The threat comes from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other geo-political rivals of the U.S.
22
6 trillion dollars. When were we ever planning to admit this has all failed? Generals never want to stop wars. They never have and never will. The United States will survive just fine. No, I don't like Trump or his methods but eternal war seems to have become a little too accepted as a valid foreign policy.
25
Of course the Afghani government doesn’t want to see the American troops depart - they want the gravy train to last forever.
They fear chaos and civil war? Everything you read about Afghanistan sure makes it sound as though they already have chaos and civil war, and it isn’t worth even one more American life to protect those grifters.
The people shouting the loudest about staying aren’t putting their lives on the line.
Putting your life on the line is strictly for the little people.
Making pious, sanctimonious statements about the need for maintaining these Forever Wars is strictly reserved for the elites, who will never even know of anyone who’s life is at risk.
We can’t get out of there fast enough.
30
@Annie Gramson Hill,
Don't forget the military contractors. It's not just the Afghani's who want the gravy train to go on forever.
3
@Annie Gramson Hill
As a combat vet myself, I could not agree with your more! Well said.
3
I always thought that Donald Trump was compromised from the campaign days to work for the Russians. He has lied blatantly in several occasions regarding his real ties with Putin. He has welcomed and embraced him at every turn and now he is walking out of Siria and Afghanistan. He has surrendered to Putin and we still don't know the complete story. I can safely bet that once the full investigation is complete on his ties with Putin it will become obvious that the puppet has done the deeds of the puppeteer. Is it money? Is it women? or a combination of both...
4
@Samuel Guia Sure in your fantasy alternative reality the president is a puppet, seems like he is hurting the Russians with low oil prices, killed a lot of them in Syria, and in other ways. Just foolish bias.
1
The US should have gone into Afghanistan in a quick punitive operation, which would have had the backing of a majority of Muslim nations, including Iran. Instead, we claimed that we had to transform Afghan society and were surprised that we couldn't do it so easily. All the historical models/parallels that were quoted, especially Germany and Japan, had been powerful, well organized nation states before the US invaded them and turned around their governments. What in the world made US think that places like Afghanistan and Iraq could be handled the same way? Our messes there are the result of wishful thinking without any understanding of history. I don't think the way President Trump goes about withdrawing is wise in a historical perspective, since this will be read as US submission to determined Islamist fighters, but I would hold it in his favor that he really has no easy alternatives left. I just feel great pity for the people, now abandoned by the U.S., who acted on the hope that modernization would be possible with American help.
15
Betrayal??? After 17 years of US blood and treasure they call our departure a betrayal? Take all the US troops out of there, the sooner the better.
41
It’s time to get serious and partition Afghanistan so that this landlocked false state enters the dustbin of history. Let’s get serious now and think about peace.
6
The kick in the head is that while the USA is in Afghanistan trying to stabilize the country, China is also there extracting oil and valuable minerals.
7
Retire our troops and replace them with the Trumps.
3
No, we should not stay in Afghanistan forever, but there is nothing moral or responsible in running away from a mess we helped to create while leaving other people to suffer. Here is Trump’s “art of the deal” in action. Our withdraw is what we were offering to the more pragmatic factions within the Taliban in exchange for their ceasefire and disarmament. Now, less than 2 years after Trump flexed and bragged about dropping “the biggest bombs” on the Taliban, we are just pulling out suddenly in exchange for nothing? Why should the Taliban agree to anything at this point? An already difficult process has been made hopeless, all so Trump can score some headlines.
And get ready for US forces to end up in greater risk six months or a year from now. Sudden withdrawls like this with no plan are going to cause problems. To fix those problems, Trump will have to do a 180. He already had to do 180s on issues from healthcare to trade already, all because he doesn’t know what he is doing. This is going to be more of the same.
3
Please tell me about the mess in Afghanistan we helped to create? If anything the US and many western allies tried to improve the lives of the average Afghan, train the Afghan military and bring good governance; however, corruption and lack of will on the part of Afghans prevented it from happening
3
@citybumpkin: Why would a winning Taliban force cease fighting and disarm ? Did North Vietnamese troops cease fire and disarm, when US was abandoning the South Vietnamese ?
@Rico we helped the Taliban defeat the Russians. We knew that they were radical Muslims and we knew what kind of a state they would create. That was the time to stay home and let the Afghans take care of themselves.
1
Pleasantly surprised to see Trump finally following through on his campaign promises to end unnecessary wars. Turns out he’s stronger than Obama was on facing up to the behind the scenes US war machine. Obama had great campaign rhetoric about “ending the mindset that got us into the Iraq War.” But ultimately he got bowled over by the war machine once he was in office.
30
@Tam Hunt “follow through”
Oh, do a series of tweets constitute “follow through” these days? Because that is all Trump has actually accomplished so far.
I’ll just log onto to Twitter now and announce I am losing 20 pounds, then I’ll have “followed through” on my big diet.
1
@Tam Hunt
I agree.
Obama had the right idea, but made a fatal mistake by making Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State.
8
@Tam Hunt
He is not ending wars. He is walking away from them.
6
Afghanistan like Vietnam and other hotspots are playgrounds for the West Point and naval academy grads.
I have absolutely no issue with spending to build and retain the most powerful force and equipment on earth because we will always be a target for terrorists and religious fanatics. But I do draw the line when that mission leaves our borders without an equal commitment of our international partners. Only Russia appears to have a similar philosophy and financial wherewithal despite the sanctions it operates under.
Like the U N , everyone recognizes that we can be played because we need to crow about our right and might which come at a very heavy price.
But the “defense “ story is matched only by that of Wall Street and the combination is what is really driving our domestic and global strategies.
The defense picture is fairly obvious but no one has connected the dots about Wall Street. Just like MC Donald’s and fast food, Wall Street has sold its story to the rest of the world. Look back at the recent financial crisis and you can deduce just how the world markets have bought into our kool aid and paid the price.
Like with the defense argument, Wall Street remains entrenched and the international markets beholden to its manipulation. The $$ is just too attractive to turn down. Same can be said for the drug cartels that can afford and entice just about everybody and anyone.
Truth be said, these problems can be addressed and even solved if anybody really wanted to.
6
Afghan officials feel betrayed? No, rather they fear the withdrawal of the gravy train.
21
Trump is a disaster on multiple levels, but on Afghanistan, even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.
Obama should have withdrawn from Afghanistan 10 years ago. Instead, he got rolled by the genius generals who have never had a coherent strategy and frightened by the congressional chickenhawks. 10 years on, nothing but dead soldiers, dead Afghanis and a trillion dollars wasted.
38
A foolish adventure. From the get go
From Alexander the Great, to the British Empire, to the Russian, none managed to occupy Afghanistan.
Least of all the US, whose soldiers understood nothing of the locals
Quote , Economist
"The insulting Americans"
The search tactics of American troops in Afghanistan, five years after they invaded the country, tend to offend on all counts. By forcing entry into the mud-fortress home of a Pushtun, with its lofty buttresses and loopholes, they dishonour his property. By stomping through its female quarters, they dishonour his women. Worse, the search may end with the householder handcuffed and dragged off before his neighbours: his person disgraced. "
https://www.economist.com/special-report/2006/12/19/honour-among-them
11
does anybody know what this war about?....I'd appreciate any info about why there is a war in Afghanistan...did Afghanistan attack us? Who is the enemy? Is an insurgent someone who doesn't like to have armed soldiers occupy their country? thanks, greg
10
@greg anton Ah, there was this thing that happened on September 11, 2001, perpetrated by a guy named Osama bin Laden and an organization call Al Qaeda. They were given shelter by the Taliban, who at the time ruled Afghanistan...
3
@greg anton
I don't understand either but apparently another Saudi named Osama Bin Laden. (Remember Bush shut down all flights so they could fly his family safely back to Saudi Arabia after 911?) was the mastermind and was hiding in Afganistan so we invaded there. I know you would like to know how the mastermind pulled it off but Obama had seal team 6 kill him so we'll never know the truth how he coordinated with those other 19 Saudi Arabian hijackers.
1
@citybumpkin...all the people involved in 911 were from Saudi Arabia. But, for the sake of argument...say that the Taliban gave shelter to A Qaeda before or after 911...are you suggesting that we invade/occupy/bomb Afghanistan for 17 years?...how about staying there for another 17 years? killing civilians, sacrifice american soldiers, spend a zillion dollars?....great idea
1
Afghanistan was always going to a tough nut to crack.
However, when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan in 2003 in order to invade Iraq (which helped give rise to ISIS), our troops were left in Afghanistan with no mission, no leadership and no strategy. That guaranteed that we would fail and that every American who died there would be one more body thrown on the trash heap of history.
Furtheremore, MOST Afghanis either never supported our vision for their country, or they just didn't care enough to stand up to the Taliban. That, of course, is THEIR choice. It's THEIR country.
11
@Jay David
It isn't that they do not care or are unwilling. It is that they see no way out. Like most abuse victims whom have never known decency in their minds the abusers always win.
1
Trump is one of those special kinds of humans who demands and expects loyalty from friends and allies, but dispenses with loyalty whenever his capricious mind or gut tells him to do so. He rages, howls and whines against perceived acts of betrayal against himself, even when those actions serve more important purposes such as securing justice and/or the safety and welfare of our nation.
A case in point: the Kurdish people remained in Syria to fight ISIS instead fleeing as refugees and thereby spared the lives, limbs and minds of thousands of American soldiers who were needed to carry out combat operations on the ground. The Kurds fought bravely and tenaciously, often house to house in the urban areas, in America's battle against ISIS. Turkey did not lend a hand in that battle. If anything, Turks were willfully blind to the oil, weapons, munitions, and European wannabe jihadists, all of which freely transited through our supposed ally, Turkey, for the benefit of the ISIS rump caliphate during the first couple of years of its existence.
America's decision to betray and abandon the Kurds to the far more powerful Turkish military will be a brutal and bloody lesson to all those, including the Afghans, that any alliance with the USA is about as solid and reliable as a handshake with Donald Trump's sweaty little hand. If there truly is a just God or karma is real, we will surely be punished for our mendacity and betrayal of the Kurds--likely by a resurgent and bloodier ISIS.
3
Trump had better find a bigger bus. It must be getting pretty crowded under the one he has now.
3
how many Americans believe our involvement in Afghanistan is actually a war, rather than some twisted kind of police assistance action? how many still believe the excuses put forward for our following the Bits, the Russians, and everyone else down the Afghan rabbithole? how many believe the Afghan government, our supposed partners, are trustworthy? how many believe there is any way to win anything there worth the fight? most importantly, how many believe the lives lost and the money spent were squandred chasing a chimera? the costs of our Afghanistan adventure are sunk. why spend more? and why not bill Dick Cheney who got us in there to project robust American power because the USSR collapsed. most incredble, could it be I agree with Trump? must be some mistake there.
7
And aren’t there pipelines involved? Isn’t protecting resource extraction usually behind every involvement?
1
If the Afghan government is upset that America will withdraw its forces then that government is illegitimate and without the support of the people.
8
Getting the US military out of Afghanistan has long been my hope...17 years is way too long. But it is insane to withdrawal half of our troops with such short notice to our allies.
I was in Vietnam for 16 months in the late sixties as a lance corporal in the Marines. And I was in combat zones in both Afghanistan and Iraq as an Army officer. I have seen the folly of all 3 wars up close and personal. Yes we need to get our troops out of the Middle East...but Lordy, Lordy NOT like this. Get ready for another genocide.
5
@flschmid1
So, if we announce a 6-12 month plan to remove forces from Afghanistan, coordinated with allies, do you believe that a genocide will be averted?
If yes, why?
2
The events and reporting around the Flynn sentencing hearing in which El Trumpo and his methods were called out and rebuked in a way that demonstrated even beyond doubt that El Trumpo is dead wrong and the conversation being had in teh press of what that all meant made him panic.
He has taken these actions to do the harm they will do so that there is something more important in the news to focus on hoping the people will forget just how thoroughly Judge Sullivan destroyed El Trumpo and his phony distractions by making Flynn admit he was full of it when he claimed to have been tricked into lying.
I'm thinking Gouliani can't be too happy about it either. El Trumpo does like to punish those who fail to succeed in helping him get away with his crimes.
2
True, it went on for a long time. But remember that in tora bora in 2002, the Taliban were holed up, having been pummeled out of everywhere else in afghanistan. The U.S forces left it to pakistan to clean up after them, and pakistan shifted those taliban in tora bora to safe havens in pakistan.
Surely if that had been done right, or if pakistan had been handled with severity and punished for its betrayals, afghanistan would have been a happier place.
The other problem was propping up a laissez faire government without much nationbuilding or dissemination of values that would have helped defeat islamic terrorism. America didn't bother to spend anything to help build liberal schools, hire teachers, nothing. All that's there in 20 years is islamic seminaries.
By contrast, after 1945, america laid out an extensive path for korea and japan. That was the sort of multi dimensional commitment needed in afghanistan.
One day in the future, you can expect another catastrophic attack like 9/11 to enamate from afghanistan, if left to the taliban. At that time hopefully somebody stumbles across this comment and regrets what might have turned out differently.
2
Why are we still in Afghanistan is it because as others have stated that no president has the guts to say no more?
Is it because we love the people? Is it because we want the rare earths that are there? Is it because we need a strategic base there and to prevent china’s ambitions? Too much gold and precious blood of ours has been spent for it too be of any value for us now. with China expanding their tentacles into Pakistan thru their we own the road intiatives inevitably Afghanistan will fall under their dominion. Time to move on
5
Up until two days ago I firmly believed that impeaching Donald Trump was a fools's errand. Without joy, I now believe it may be warranted and a Senate vote no longer a definite no. Trumps troops are no longer in lockstep. His flipflop on the wall, his retreat from Syria and Afghanistan and the crashing stock market have put the future of his presidency in play. Republicans feel as or more strongly about these issues than they do about the man Trump. And knowing that Mike Pence will step up and bring back educated reason to the Presidency is no small comfort to the Independents and moderate Republicans who feel that Trump has both not delivered on the one hand and gone too far on the other. This is the moment he is vulnerable and the fact the Democrats have the power to initiate such a move in just days is no small gift. For the Democrats not to act given these developments would be to forsake their responsibility, much as I absolutely hate to say it.
4
"For many in the Afghan leadership, shock quickly turned to a sense of betrayal."
How can there be any other way to look at this sudden decision than betrayal? To not consult nor warn Afghan officials of this move is blatantly wrong and dangerous . . . not just to Afghan but to the U.S. as well.
I'd like to know how in the world any peace talks with the Taliban can ever be viewed as positive, encouraging or hopeful after such an incredible announcement and decision has been made without any warning or notice given to anyone, especially Trump's senior American diplomats and/or advisors and Afghan officials.
Whatever trust level Trump may have assumed existed in the past can be now kicked to the curb because NO ONE will trust anything that comes from the U.S. He just cut the legs out from under every promise or decision he's made in the past. His word is more meaningless and hollow than ever.
5
If a statement like this was made when a Democrat was president I can tell you that the tone of the story would be extremely different.
Just saying.
9
The very few comments about these terrible news pretty much make the point: the US and its citizens long time ago took in this defeat (the Taliban was not only not destroyed, but great concessions will be needed for a peace deal given a collapsing Afghan government and a US's weakened hand even prior to this).
Alas, even then, the humiliation that Mr. Trump has placed on Mr. Khalilzad (he should resign, he is damaged goods in front of the Taliban and Afghans now) and the emasculation that Mr. Trump has imposed on the US armed forces and the nation give a new meaning to the art of the self-defeating, disgraceful, bad deal.
At no time again can the GOP claim the mantle of military force or strength.
1
Why should it be a sense of betrayal? How long? I just Googled, we spent $714 Billion on them since 2001, which is may be okay if it is leading to a resolution, but we know it's not, otherwise we don't have to be there. The status quo is very convenient and desirable for both the government side and the Taliban side, with money trickling down to both sides in form or the other.
16
@Robby
The failure to win yet is down to the republicans making money off the war. It was clear on 9-10-01 that we should invade and occupy the whole of Afghanistan and rebuild it like we did with Japan and Germany. In 5 years we would have been down to a few thousand and they would have been entirely independent inside ten.
People forget it was a normal country before the Russians invaded in 1979 so they could steal the natural resources and prop up their failed corrupt Soviet economy. It ended up destroying them.
1
don't forget: as we carry on about opioid carnage here at home, we are making Afghanistan safe for the cultivators of heroin poppies.
@magicisnotreal
That should be 9-12-01
I rarely find anything I agree on when it comes to the President but in this case, he is correct. Afganistan has been a swamp for the Greeks, British, Russians, and the US. There is nothing good to come of us staying a country were loyalty and trust are non-existent.
17
How many other countries would commit troops for 17 years? Afghan leaders need to get their own house in order and stop pointing fingers at US for not solving their structural problems.
11
@Dan Smith We have been on the border between North and South Korea since somehkng like 1954. I am not saying we belong in either place but we should probably just hand the Afghanistan over to the Russians or maybe Chinese and avoid the bloodshed that will follow our departure. At least maybe the deaths won’t be more innocent Afghan civilians or international aid workers.
Afghans have had over a decade to prepare themselves to be self-sufficient. Did they think we would be there forever?
Doesn’t the world realize that young Americans do not want to carry the weight of being the world’s nanny?
12
In all talks the Taliban has never wavered in their position requiring that 'all foreign forces' must leave Afghanistan...
During all the years, after the first year of the war, the Taliban have grown in number, grown in funding and logistics, grown in combat experience, grown in strategies, grown in controlling more land areas of the country...(see Long War Journal)
With the withdraw of the US forces, I fear the end game will be a coalescence of radical fundamentalists in the entire region that will attack Pakistan and secure nuclear weapons.
5
Good work, Trump. 7000 more to go. The Middle East is a morass. I wouldn't be surprised if China got involved with Afghanistan after our departure; and I wouldn't be surprised if they got bogged down too.
7
The U.S. has done enough damage in Afghanistan.
It's government's armies have been repeatedly slaughtered, dashing themselves against the rock that is the Taliban, which has nearly unlimited resources flowing from Saudi Arabia through Pakistan (something no American leader has been willing to address). Whatever backlash that occurs when that government collapses will be on us, but then again we knew that.
24
A good day for Taliban, a good day for ISIS, whatever remains of those butchers,a good day for Hezbollah, Putin, Iran a Asad.
And indeed a bad day for Afghan people hoping to have a free country from the barbarity of the religious fanatics, a bad day for Kurds longing for a democratic secular country of their own.
What a let down and betrayal of this country to the people who fought along side the US Army!
8
@AB From Hungary in 1956 through Vietnam in 1974 through the Iraqi Kurds in 1991 through Afghanistan in 2018, I cannot imagine why anyone on Earth would put their life on the line for an American promise anymore. We make them, but we don't keep them. Not just Trump.
1
@AB You contradict yourself - you cannot have a free country with foreign troops on your soil.
2
Trump is really going out of his way to avoid having to visit troops in a combat zone!
28
The Repubs have always been, in my 70 year lifetime, hawks. Now they want to leave Syria and Afghanistan. Yes, Republicans, it may be your president who made the decisions on his own, but you nominated him, and you own his decisions. So here I am, always been a dove, but I think pulling the troops out in this manner is a mistake. Maybe in the future but the withdrawal now and in this manner, leaves our Allies in a bad situation. Russia seems to be the big beneficiary and also Iran. Leaves Israel more isolated in the region. And and Erdogan general has threatened to kill the Kurds and dump them in the gutter as soon as the US leaves.
9
I think it's the best thing Trump has done. We need to end the perpetual wars. For the hawks there will never be a right time because these wars can't be won. Not surprising Mattis, a general, is against anything to stop it
25
@Doug Dolde
The best thing? By completely blindsiding all the folks in the field working in this country's best interests, without telling any of the people that rely on you for support, 'Oh, bye, I'm out of here.' Disengage from these dangerous areas, if you'd like, but do it in a systematic, thoughtful way rather than announcing your "policy" on twitter or fox and friends. Ah, that's good ol' Don, making friends where ever he goes...sadly, we'll wind up paying for the mess he made for decades. (Well, actually, this can, in large measure, be traced to W., if not the allies at the end of WWII, who just split the whole region up whilly-nilly. Ah, but who cares about history and it's consequences anyway? Certainly not the enfant terrible, i.e., individual 1. )
2
We should have never been in Afghanistan in the first place. The Russians, who preceeded us there, made a hasty withdrawal. We should have taken a clue from that.
Why is Afghanistan our business? Is it their poppy and heroin trade that we seek to protect? That whole decrepit place isn't worth the life of even one more American kid.
Let's leave and resolve to get along with whoever comes out on top.
39
@MIKEinNYC
Seriously Mike...? Did any of your friends or relatives die on 9/11?
We should not have been in Iraq, but we were attacked on 9/11 by people who were directed by Osama Bin Laden, who was in Afghanistan.
And, of course, the attackers were Saudi Arabians, and most probably funded by elements of the Saudi Royal Family.
The conditions on the ground are the same as it's been for 17 or perhaps the last 1,000 years, Afghanistan can't get right.
19
In case this goes badly, steps should be taken to make sure this president receives the blame, not the next guy or gal who inherits the problem. No rewriting history.
6
Maybe I am the only one that thinks it is about time we left Afghanistan. Those who have loved ones in the military, who may be on their 3rd or 4th tour there, will be happy too.
We should not remain for even another day. Get out now.
Close that door behind us. The sooner the better.
54
@Jon
Not being disrespectful, but for those who are in the military, where do they expect to be deployed to if not Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc? Texas? North Carolina? That's why they're in the military, isn't it?
Wherever the president goes he leaves behind a sense of betrayal. Impulsive decisions not weighed by process, facts, advise and wise counsel lead to chaos and confusion, no real concerns for those left behind or the damage being done by lack of planning, lack of coordination with allies, with a lack of depth of knowledge, and not honoring long term partnerships.
The Republicans need to speak up more.
3
when Republicans speak up it is against abortion, against taxes, against immigration, against unions, against healthcare, against Nancy Pelosi and for guns, coal, corporations, and quasi wars abroad.
3
Imagine my surprise to agree with Trump on pulling troops from Afghanistan and Syria. They've been happily fighting among themselves for at least two thousand years and they'll be good to go on without us until they finally get it out of their system. War fever has to burn itself out there.
32
No doubt this little notice of our leaving is a blow to those who count on us forgetting that we have long been there only to help the government get ready for our departure. That would never happen. Why, the overly long stay has created expectations and dependencies that are hard to shake. Trumps way seems harsh and it is, but that is what happens when the dependency situation goes on and on and on.
Now broken, the state will live or die on its own. are we at fault. In some ways yes, we are the enablers of dependency, here and elsewhere. It is our desire to be needed, perhaps, but whatever it is, we have helped to create this relationship that must be broken.
19
I’d suspect that many, many Americans are in favor of our pulling out of Syria, Afghanistan, and many other nations where our military is expending lives and money foolishly. But those same many, many Americans want these things to be done intelligently, with careful planning, and, most of all, in coordination with those we are fighting with or for.
“Betrayal” could be our President’s middle name by now. Ask the EU countries. Ask Canada. Ask the Kurds. Ask anyone who’s ever worked for him. Our President is simply an awful person.
96
@Dagwood Have you served in the military in support of our friends? It is easy to send others to die for someone else's war.
12
@Pepperman Considering everyone in our military is a volunteer, it's their own fault for signing up. Particularly if they signed on after the second 9/11.
2
Sounds like more coordination could have been used for sure. But a 17 year drawdown is hardly abrupt. We should have been out of Afghanistan more than a decade ago.
6
The US was never going to win there but maybe as a courtesy you coordinate with your allies.
78
@Djt
I agree completely. If not coordinating with our allies, al least a heads up in advance rather than having to read about it in the NYT like the rest of the world. I think our allies deserve at least that consideration and courtesy.
4
@Djt-Especially key as Bush Jr. threatened to strip U.S. aid form countries that failed to join the "Coalition of the Willing". I think that's how Nepal's ill-equipped and unprepared "soldiers" ended up in Iraq. Just one example.
2
There are 7.7 billion human beings on this planet. By the time he's done, Trump will have betrayed every one of them except for Vladimir Putin.
46
@Bill Camarda
Nearly 8 billion humans is too many for this overburdened planet to hold.
Overpopulation is the root of many of today’s problems, from global warming to wars.
5
@Bill Camarda
Peace is a betrayal of man. It is the lowest thing anyone can do. Competely agree with you.
3
@Nephi I do recognize mockery. If it's coming from the left, I'd recommend Marcy Wheeler's piece to you today: "We Will Not Get Peace From the People Who Dismember Dissidents Alive."
Wheeler captures some of the complexities of finding a thoughtful response to a troop withdrawal from a war that shouldn't have happened, when it's unilaterally decided by a leader who vigorously promotes brutality and torture all over the planet, and may well result in yet more mass slaughter -- certainly in Syria, possibly in Afghanistan.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/12/21/we-will-not-get-peace-from-the-people-who-dismember-dissidents-alive/
If it's coming from the right, I'll just ask you to keep those thoughts in mind next time someone like Dick Cheney comes to power.
Make no mistake.
The aftermath of withdrawing U.S. troops will be a bloodbath in Afghanistan. The Taliban will repress women’s rights, prevent little girls from going to school, slaughter members of the current regime, hold mass executions in soccer stadiums, and blow up cultural treasures. In other words, it will be back to the “good old days”.
So be it.
It’s their country, or more specifically, their set of family and tribal loyalties.
They had a 15 year opportunity to create a stable democracy. The fact that they didn’t seize this opportunity is proof enough that there is nothing more for us to do there.
43
@John It was the Communists who sent little girls to school in Afghanistan. We helped the Mujahidin get them out. Just whose side are you on?
4
@John So you want to send young service men and women to die for girls to go to school 12 thousand miles away. Why is it always the ones who do not serve their country always want to go to war?
5
@Pepperman
Please reread my comment.
You've somehow taken exactly the opposite message of what I said.
Let me be clear. I agree with you. We shouldn't be sending our soldiers thousands of miles away to enable young girls to attend school, regardless of how much those girls would benefit.
1