What follows is not a Trump-thing. Trump has only my deepest scorn.
But what on Earth is wrong with deporting people who
1 entered the US illegally?
2 who concealed major prior wrongs when they applied for citizenship?,
3 who committed crimes after applying for citizenship or after becoming citizens?
Citizenship is a right of American citizens. Shouldn't that mean only people LEGALLY born here cannot lose US citizenship?
The Constitution guarantees freedom of speech, but not as an absolute right. What one can say or write has reasonable limits.
Why should citizenship be 1 an absolute right of anyone not born here or 2 of anchor babies whose foreign mothers came here to have them?
Does 2 strike NO ONE as a dodgy technicality to avoid resident visas, formally applying for citizenship, living here legally the five-year naturalization period, and other hurdles to separate opportunists from citizenship aspirers likelier to contribute? Why encourage stealing US citizenship or faking claimed refugee status? Are thousands now trying to break into the US not warning enough? When do these attempted invasions end?
What but active discouragement will ever end such invasions? The practical answer is NOTHING. We already do nothing and the negative result is obvious.
49
bypassing the courts or hamstringing judges (as in "3 strikes you're out" laws) is getting to be a GOP policy. Of course if they didn't keep denaturalization more or less under the radar, someone might notice that it was a cruel and unusual punishment.
17
The Haitian immigrant's story would generate more sympathy if she had come clean, admitted the fraud of her previous application, and pleaded for forgiveness from the court. The reporter's raising the possibility that she she was an innocent victim of a private swindler is not credible. She didn't provide her fingerprints and photograph to some storefront conman. She provided them to an INS officer inside an official government office. There is no other explanation for how her fingerprints and photo could get into a fraudulent application. She abandoned the fraudulent application when a legal ground for immigration, through marriage, opened up to her. But her crime eventually caught up with her, and rather than admitting to it all these years later, she implicitly accuses the government of framing her. Which evidently made her less sympathetic in the eyes of the jury.
46
When I started reading this article, I thought that surely there was some quirk that the courts would correct. But no, this is the malevolent wave of the future. Though Haitians are for the Trump administration especially easy (and fun): they're poor and black and English is not their native language, the program will expand.
32
The sub title of this article says "The prosecution of naturalized United States citizens is a sign of a gathering storm." What storm exactly? The only storm I can fathom this being a sign of is the furry of half-truths and whole lies aimed at attacking President Trump. The prosecution of naturalized citizens for fraudulently becoming naturalized, was going on before President Trump even started campaigning to be a candidate for the presidency. So why isn't President Obama being vilified like President Trump? Wasn't it the Obama Administration that created Operation Janus and Operation Second Look, which, if never created, may have never looked into Mrs. Dureland's citizenship and/or possible fraud related to it, and thus she may have never been prosecuted at all? So why not blame the Operations or the Administration that created them?
It's truly sad to see the hatred for one man is so strong that organizations that were once reputable, reliable sources for news, have turned into nothing more than mud-slinging, hate-mongering entities, that are willing to say anything to rip apart any sense of national unity, as long as it makes President Trump look like he's anti-American, despite all his actions showing how false that characterization is.
44
How many times have we been told, including by this paper, that immigrants from muslim countries at war like Yemen and Syria were always carefully vetted before moving here. My response: I've seen the pictures and in what buildings are they keeping records in those countries? Answer: ridiculous to claim that the people from that region can be vetted, or even definitively identified for that matter.
32
The facts appear to be present in the article, but they are arranged either manipulatively or in between the lines.
Point blank, had Trump never become president, the lady in question would still be in this predicament. The proceedings began in the 1990s, and picked up speed under Obama.
Second, and most troubling, Ms. Dureland did not outright deny the fraud she is accused of. Her attorney merely posits a hypothetical. It should be easy to say "I didn't do it," and she doesn't. I wonder if Mr. Wessler even asked.
As presented by the Times (which doubtless left out countering information), we should be asking for accountability from the last judge in this case. But in the mad pursuit to blame 45 for absolutely everything, any connection of the dots will do, even if the dots are by Jackson Pollack.
46
If these are civil case with no statute of limitations, why is no one in the federal government researching the backgrounds of the Russia mobsters that the KGB sent to the United States during the Cold War? Is it because they are "white" and therefore fall under Trump's definition of "good immigrants"? Why do all the cases of injustice involve immigrants of color? Is Trump trying to pander to his white supremacist base? The answer is a resounding "yes." Every time Trump advocates a policy that harms his base--like tax cuts for the rich or tariffs that hurt the very people he claimed he would protect, he has to do something to distract them from his true agenda--which is lining his own pockets with bribes from the world's wealthiest. And so, his people find some immigrant of color to abuse in a very public, very disgraceful fashion, knowing that the base will cheer and say "Trump really does care about working white folks!" To Trump's base---your life is not improved when the life of someone from a different ethnic background is destroyed. If anything, the system of checks ands balances that keep YOU safe are weakened.
41
It looks like a good start!
15
All these lawyers and people working for the government are expensive. It seems like we have gone well beyond diminishing returns on this issue. We are spending a fortune nitpicking people with no real justification for the expenditure of our money. It’s like giving someone a long prison sentence for a minor crime, it’s just stupid and wrong. I guess the top law school graduates go on to helping big time criminals get away with crimes and the lower rungs go on to make small time criminals pay for their crimes.
30
It is widely recognized, though specfically not pursued and therefore unproven, that Melania worked while on a tourist visa.
That is a violation of the visa, which made her an illegal alien. Which made her green card and citizenship invalid due to false statements. So the citizenship could be revoked.
However, being white, and now rich, well, as long as she does not oppose The Donald, she, and her parents, are safe.
For now.
93
In 1985 Rupert Murdoch gave up his Australian citizenship and became a naturalized U.S. citizen in order to own a newspaper.
As a result we now have Fox "News", an organization that millions of Americans think is largely responsible for a lot of our political mess right now.
How about denaturalization for Murdoch?
82
I would like this egregious and vengeful department inside the Justice Dept to use one example as a test case: Did Trump's grandfather renounce U.S. Citizenship, return to Germany and was deported back to the U.S. and then opened up a brothel in Alaska, a social crime (at least it should be.)
If proved to be true his descendants should be sent back to Germany. They got their citizenship through false "papers."
I am hornswoggled that this came about during Obama's Presidency, though I should not be surprised, he's a closet Republican "lite. " A pox" on the Democrats Third Way group.
22
What have we become?
23
Sounds like Mccarthyism all over again. Trump is paranoid and more to the point he has the finger on the button for ww3
15
We are a horrible country.
Recognize it.
Accept it.
Stop lecturing, anyone, and I mean anyone, elsewhere in the world about human rights. We have no humanity. We just need to shut up.
39
It is beginning. This new action is the vanguard of evil. This is how Nazism starts. The ending is not happy.
34
I hate the shopworn Nazi comparison but isn't that exactly what the Nazis did to Jews and other foreigners. I don't want to hear ever again how could that have happened in a civilized country. Any pretense of American exceptionalism is another victim of Trump's MAGA.
30
What happended to the FBI? It was only after 9/11 that the "Department of Homeland Security" even came into existence.
Now we have some kind of quasi-Gestapo running wild across the country...
35
Immigration fraud is rampant. About time we send a message that you will be caught and deported. Another coming scam is people having fake birth certificates that show them to Ben much older than their real age. A quick way to get to 65 and collect retirement gooodies. Americans are suckers, time to wisen up.
32
My parents are naturalized US citizens. Being white Europeans I’ll assume they’re safe from the Trump brownshirts knocking on the door.
I’m very disappointed my country is deporting naturalized citizens without fair and impartial hearings and trials. Why was evidence showing Ms. Dureland was possibly the victim of identity fraud withheld from the jury? Could it be the Trump Administration is fraudulently stripping individuals of their citizenship and deporting them. Is this administration targeting individuals from certain countries?
Everyday I have less confidence in my government than I had the day before. Everyday I fear what Trump might do to divert attention from the Mueller investigation.
26
In the paper edition of the Times Magazine, this article is titled "De Naturalized" and the subtitle is "The Next Frontier in America's Immigration Debate is the Push to Take Citizenship Away."
This is a world away from the online title, which properly frames the subject as part of the Trump Administration's War on Immigration and alludes to a "gathering storm."
The way these stories are framed is important. This is, indeed, an outrageous act of xenophobic aggression and not simply a new item of debate. When the paper of record legitimizes and normalizes abnormal governmental behavior, it does its readers and our citizens a disservice.
4
There is no war on immigration. There's a war on the constant calls by Dems for open borders. We cannot become a nation of two or three billion impoverished poor people so the Dems can finally win elections.
38
Thank you for this article. I'm going to recommend it to young students of history so that they can educate themselves on this issue. I didn't know till I read this that denaturalization existed. It seems to me to be a slippery slope from cases of fraud that merit a deeper look to revoking the legitimate naturalization of a person whose ideas one disagrees with. I fear we are heading toward the latter state in the current political climate.
19
@Sushirrito As scary as that is, scarier is deporting citizens because they are the wrong color. That is called ethnic cleansing and it caused a bloody war in the Balkans that the UN had to step in on. If we go down this route, the world and history would not judge us well. All people and all parties should rise up against this. But no, our leaders are letting their cultural anxieties and those of their followers override humanity and common sense.
PS, for those who say "Obama did it too" they are using a cowardly and deceptive false equivalency. Obama did it an a vastly smaller scale, for limited legitimate reasons. The big difference? He and his supporters weren't avowed white nationalists who have publicly called for exclusion or expulsion of minority ethnic groups, again like in the Balkans.
18
In the early 70s, living near Detroit, my husband and I decided to take our elderly grandmothers to Windsor for an outing and a nice dinner. Both of them showed considerable concern and anxiety for such an outrageous idea. They wanted to make sure they had their papers with them if we were going to cross the border into Canada. My husband and I didn't get it--we were young and camped in Canada all the time. We made the trip, but I can say that neither of our grandmothers looked like they really enjoyed it. My grandmother had come from Belgium with her parents in 1904. She became an American citizen when she was 10. My husband's grandmother was from Holland. She came over in her teens and became a citizen in her early 20s. Sometime later, my grandma told me that she was so nervous that they wouldn't let her back into the U.S. that day in spite of her citizenship. They had both carried the fear of deportation, but I'm afraid I just didn't get it. Now I do--and I think what's happening is shameful. Law and justice sometimes have little in common.
73
This is the law. If you don't like it, change the law. Don't just ignore it.
30
@Adam's Myth Nonsense. This is distorting the law to kick out citizens of your country who aren't white. Your parrot line about the "law" conceals a zeal to make America white again.
23
@Adam's Myth You can't change the law if you're not a citizen and don't have a voice in government...
10
"If Dureland became a citizen through a process that would be unproblematic were it not for this supposed “Alindor” application, why should that now affect her right to remain in the United States?
The jury was unconvinced."
Who are these heartless jurors who unanimously decide to disregard the circumstances of the Dureland family to harp on some decades-old application that more likely than not was mishandled? Heartless Americans, mean human beings, craven and cold. I have nothing in common with those Americans, and abundantly more sympathy for Americans like the Durelands, These jurors felt no qualms about destroying this poor, striving family's lives. Shame on them and the prosecutors in this inhumane witch hunt.
54
@BettyK "Who are these heartless jurors ...?" Most likely people who don't look like her and can't relate. Haiti is the last place you want to deport someone too especially over something like this when the woman obtained her green card legally through her husband.
12
What did the jury know that was not disclosed in the article? We can't dismiss their deliberations without having all the facts.
19
Sad, Sad, Sad
How I wish more of the Christians of this country would read and try to follow Jesus' teachings.
All my life I have felt that our deeply flawed country was still an example for the rest of the world of high morals and freedom. Now I have lost that feeling. We are no better than other countries led by ruthless dictators. Daily we are giving up our claims to a high road.
41
@WMB
I feel that way every day. But the answer always comes back: It’s my responsibility to do everything I can to turn my country into the truly freedom-loving democratic republic that we were taught was what distinguished the USA. A nation of, by, and for the people. Though many of our immigrant ancestors participated in taking land from native peoples, the ideals of our nation's founders seem to have transcended those cruel beginnings. Let us fight for justice and mercy.
14
@WMB we’re on our way to to being ruled by a corrupt dictator. It’s also interesting that the three cases cited area Yemeni, a Haitian and a Latino.
10
Ms. Alindor committed clear fraud. I am an immigrant and when they take your fingerprints they also take your picture, a thing carefully omitted in this article. I assume the picture matched or else I am sure it would be highlighted in the article. As for the fake son, I am sure every single fraud you catch will come up with some implausible story of how they unwittingly defrauded the safeguards and security checks. Allowing these criminal aliens to stay in the US makes a mockery of those who, like myself, followed the rules and obtained citizenship without lying and defrauding. Deport them already.
40
@NashvilleInvestor It wasn't highlighted in the article, and you don't sound very much informed on this issue or this person's circumstances for someone who has claimed to have gone through the immigration process. Tell me, if I'm supposed to think their words are implausible, why should I believe yours? How do I know you're not lying to make a point?
10
What exactly is the point of going after legal residents, even citizens, years after they are legalized? These people are not criminals. Doesn’t Trump have anything better to do? What about infrastructure??
65
@Lisa The Trump administration is following the law, just as the Obama administration followed the same laws.
21
@Lisa
Infrastructure doesn't spread fear among those he perceives as enemies.
10
@Lisa What bleeding hearts tend to overlook, when considering stories like this, are the implications of becoming an American citizen; namely the rights and protections implied. When so-called "Americans" join Al Shabbab, Al Quaeda, ISIS, or any other terrorist organization, they are not only dangerous criminals, they are also citizens afforded the same protections as legitimate citizens, often causing headaches for the administration when they start acting up (Anwar Al Awlaki, Somalis "from Minnesota" going back home to join Al Shabbab and enjoying the privileges of being "American" when caught, etc). By naturalizing hand over fist people we know little to nothing about, we endanger others at home, and create a class of undeportable people we'll be stuck with when it turns out they're criminals instead of the nice people they pretend to be.
It only makes sense to fully investigate and vet immigrants applying for citizenship, and to have a means to rid them of said unduly obtained citizenship when it's discovered they lied on their application.
Giving away naturalizations haphazardly to people we know are defrauding the system isn't the way to go; it's actually a great way to attract fraudsters who will go on cheating the system once protected by their citizenship.
24
Once you are a naturalized citizen you are entitled to due process. That will ensure some faith in attempts to strip one of one's citizenship. Yes there are many people who want to come here and bend/break rules to do so. Far more are the citizens born here doing harm to this nation. We are now selling citizenship to the wealthy. In a nutshell, that has always been the American dream. We only need immigrants when we need to build something, bridges, railroads, skyscrapers. Not freedom, not democratic values, not to be a beacon. Genocide built this country and that is the source of America for Americans. Ancestry has gotten you to send in your DNA and perhaps one day it will be used to drag out the "undesirable" ones among us.
12
@Meta
The article makes abundant mention of judges, juries and lawyers. In other words, "due process."
21
Clearly, the intent here is to keep America "for Americans," meaning, of course, that in the eyes of today's conservatives, some Americans are more American than others.
And that is about as un-American a philosophy as you can get. It is a philosophy that neo-Nazis and Klansmen would applaud. Are modern Republican voters truly comfortable with that sort of association? If so, they should be ashamed of themselves.
31
It is an unfortunate truth that, yes, some people lie or engage in fraud to gain legal status or citizenship. And that prosecution occurred under the Obama Department of Justice as well (so the headline about Trump Administration's "War on Immigration" is misleading and needlessly inflammatory). The anonymous former Justice Department attorney must not be familiar with former prosecutions under Obama administration.
For example, Eden Sakoc, an immigrant from Bosnia, gained refugee status and eventual US citizenship but lied about his war crimes during the Bosnian conflict in the 1990s. Years later, it became known he had reportedly targeted Serbian women, including kidnapping and raping some, and participating in murder. As Vermont newspapers like Burlington Free Press and Seven Days reported at the time, the Obama administration successfully prosecuted Mr. Sakoc. He agreed to be denaturalized and gave up his citizenship and was deported to Bosnia, where he was then arrested and prosecuted by Bosnian authorities. Again, all under the Obama administration. He had been "vetted" by refugee and immigration authorities but hard to verify if it turns out someone is lying.
33
@GRH I hope you agree there is a huge difference in lying on an application vs rape and murder - the first requires a slap on the wrist and the second requires a harsher solution.
3
@GRH
I just read that Ramzi Yousef, the first WTC nonmber, came into the US on a fraudulent passport and then claimed political asylum and was released, never to show up for his court date. He was finally caught in Pakistan after managing to leave the US without being stopped. Not everyone coming in to the US is a good person.
15
@GRH If you read the article you would see that it exactly made the point that this did occur during the Obama administration for serious crimes like war crimes and not for instances that did not affect national security so I am not sure what your point is.
4
The spectre of denaturalization conflicts with the oath of naturalization, which requires the new citizen to renounce all other citizenships and allegiances. Supposing I become a U.S. citizen, and then renounce my previous citizenship. If am later denaturalized, where am I a citizen of?
1
@Sean Fulop. You do not have to renounce your original citizenship when you are naturalized. The US does not recognize, but does not forbid, dual citizenship.
7
@Overpop
This partially true. You swear a solemn oath to renounce allegiance to any other country, and if your country of origin forbids dual citizenship, your passport is promptly cancelled.
But the USA does not check. It's an honor system. We should check, and revoke the citizenship of anyone who holds more than one passport, including those born and raised here.
6
This is precisely why my mother, a legal resident of the United States for over 50 years, refused to become an American citizen until one day she physically lost her green card. Her records were so old that the government had physically lost her files also. A lawyer that she consulted told her to become an American citizen and she did so reluctantly because, as she said, a naturalized American citizen is a second class citizen.
3
@Day Brais
I forgot to add, this was back in the 80s. My mom was very smart and read the NYT cover to cover every day. She knew what was up.
1
@Day Brais your mom meant to say that about a green card holder. A naturalized citizen has all the rights of citizenship. Since your mother's time courts have ruled to strengthen the naturalization process --in a recent US Supreme Court case throwing out the government's case against a lady they accused of lying on her application.
What is the public policy objective that is being advanced? Winning elections isn't a public policy objective.
2
@Kay. The objective is obviously to deter similar behavior by would be fraudsters.
16
The same thing is happening to me... Got indicted August 13th 2018 for 'Unlawful Procurement of Naturalization'. The kicker is that I obtained my US citizenship when I joined the US Army in 2011. I became a naturalized citizen by joining the US military. That was not why I joined however. I have always wanted to serve. I came to the US from Canada in 1995 and have lived here ever since. Now I am about to be deported. It is really a horrible situation for me and my family whom I live with.
20
@TJ
I’m sorry that our government and president is not honoring their obligation to you. What Trump is doing is unconscionable. I wish you and your family well. I hope your situation can be reversed so you can remain here in the US if you still want to.
3
I wonder at which point in time, folks who were born, raised within and paid taxes in the USA will find themselves deported to places they have never every even visited on vacation? It seems this is a witch hunt wherein people of color or pursued and stripped of their rights and citizenship. It seems that as a citizen one might have the right to challenge evidence which is utilized to support a stripping of citizenship. Is this a historical issue of 'been there, done that' and let us create a basis for WW2?
3
I am a naturalized citizens.
So, this article caught my attention.
In today's world, everything is the fault of this POTUS.
But reading this article and comments below - it seems many forgot to either read the whole article or chose to ignore certain parts.
It appears that this denaturalization was launched by the 44th and has now been expanded to a certain extent.
These cases highlighted here actually started before this POTUS came to power.
For that matter, folks mostly associated with this process - say that regardless of who the 45th is - the path laid out by the 44th would have resulted in these denaturalization - and increasing numbers.
I know the POTUS just signed First Step as part of modernizing our federal sentencing system - it recognized that some crimes need to have a commensurate sentence - and not follow some rigid guidelines.
But let's be clear - in all cases - punishment will be meted out for breaking the law.
In immigration debate today - it is clear that many folks want no punishment for breaking immigration laws.
If an ordinary criminal - as now recognised by Congress - must be punished; why is there a difference with those breaking immigration laws?
The Congress keeps putting burdens on the Executive with enforcing immigration laws.
But when the executive follows the law - Congress says no no.
Why have these laws in the first place then??
Congress need to step up to the plate to meet up with POTUS on modernizing our immigration system.
23
Unless some glitch went unnoticed, all the people I know with ties to other countries are here legally. Some include: my new Chinese-born sister-in-law; the parents of my American-born Chinese niece by marriage; my brother's Mexico-born father-in-law who fought for the U.S. in WWII; my niece's Filipino mother-in-law; my neighbor's Ethiopian daughter, adopted during war; my Indian dentist; the checkout clerk at Trader Joe from Somalia; some of the DACA students I've come to know and love. And so goes. Who deserves to be an American? Under Trump is it a stretch to worry--that lawful and naturalized citizens can NOW find their status at risk?
14
@Ann, Nice but don't forget there are those many millions of us who were actually born here in the US too.
Some of us for a dozen generations.
It's not ALL about immigrants all of the time. only.
13
@Ann Is there any reason why you ignore the fact that this process is part of US law?
Is there any reason why you ignore the fact that this process was begun under Obama and continued under Trump?
15
@Poe But we are a nation of immigrants unless you are Native American and if you are, you are different from your ancestors as you appear to be missing the spirit of kindness, generosity and interconnectedness.
4
Horrible and heartbreaking we are now torturing this grandmother, I don't know how her family maintains hope, they fled persecution at home only to face persecution by old style southern racist Jeff Sessions.
33
@maria5553. This began during Obama’s administration.
7
@maria5553 Interesting comment. The process of civil denaturalization has been going on for years.......yet you focus on someone who is no longer in office.
And you completely ignore the writer's comment that "the number (of denaturalizations) was already rising toward the end of the Obama administration".
6
Is Melania next?
85
@Nick Benton From your mouth to God's ears.
6
We understand. Trump only wants white Europeans. Got it. Many of us are not neo-nazi racist skinheads and strongly disapprove of his racism.
Deport as many as you want, it isn't going to fix anything in the flyover states...although it might distract his base long enough for them to continue their blind support of a man who is clearly selling out his country through the next election cycle, if there is one...
23
Check the dates referred to in the article and compare them with recent Presidential administrations.
Please.
7
@Voice Of Doom. Did you read the entire article? This started during Obama’s administration.
8
@Voice Of Doom
Once again Trump is blamed for something Obama did, too - and which is merely enforcing the law of the land. It’s tiresome and it detracts from the argument.
9
Melania's parents recently became citizens. NYT, please into Melania and her family's record and see if there is any irregularity.
88
Too bad, so sad. What do you think would happen to either you or I if we were caught living illegally within another country?
No matter for how long, it does not give you instant immunity from being given the boot. Anyone here living and or working illegally should be told to leave and apply from outside. Enough of the sob stories already. I don't care about their 'problem'.
And as far as anyone involved any crimes, including drunk driving, be gone already. We don't need you here at all. Bye.
21
@Tom Or you could actually read the article and discover that these people are not here illegally. They are naturalized U.S. citizens, meaning they have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as you. Do you think the government should be able to deport you back to wherever your ancestors came from if you are convicted of a crime? If not, why the double-standard?
8
@Tom. Where did YOUR immigrant ancestors come from? What were THEY fleeing? Do you know--- would you bet your LIFE on--- the fact that they ALL were 100% "legal", that NONE of them was fathered by some one they did not know wasn't their father, no one was adopted, no one did not have "papers" because their home country did not ISSUE such??? Before you try and shame with your arrogance and ignorance go dig into YOUR history, and find out how these circumstances are all too common. Educate yourself.
12
Pretty harsh there. Drunk driving is not a felony so the CITIZEN gets the same punishment as other CITIZENS. However, you can think about saying "bye" to those who are convicted of felonies, or certain kinds perhaps. Many Italian Americans were deported in the 1920s and 30s for their associations with that group's organized crime. Meyer Lansky was kicked out for his work related to the Jewish mobs. But deport a naturalized citizen for failing to pick up their dog's poop in the park? Lighten up a little.
2
Denaturalizing legal U.S. citizens sounds like something the Nazis did to German Jews.
77
@Tal Birdsey
Denaturalizing is not used to remove legal U. S. citizens. It is used to remove those who gained citizenship through illegal, fraudulent means.
There is a difference.
23
@Azalea Lover I hope they don't look too carefully at all the Irish relatives that arrive in New York.
7
What if we could start voting people off this island/continent? We could work it like brackets during March Madness. 45/Madoff vs McConnell/the Bundy boys.
6
When will ICE and USCIS begin it's investigation of Melania Trump's immigration history?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/21/the-huge-questions-about-melania-trumps-immigration-history-nobody-will-answer/?utm_term=.b7b255b3b0ea
And then there's Melania's parents, who recently obtained naturalized citizenship through the chain migration eligibility criteria that Trump has decried for years and has been seeking to end.
74
Make no mistake: if this goes unchecked, they will be coming after native borns who don’t toe their line, and strip them of citizenship.
32
hardcore conservatives want to find any way to get black and brown people (with the possible exception of south asians and, to a much lesser but still measurable extent, east asians) out of America. Mostly black people though.
Republicans, by and large, want to get people who consistently and reliably vote Democrat out of the country.
What a shock
news at 11.
12
@Jarl They are already deporting refugees who've been in the U.S. since the end of the Vietnam War.
3
@Jarl, yikes. President Obama's Department of Justice prosecuted, denaturalized and deported Eden Sakoc, a European who was an immigrant refugee from Bosnia and who later became a US citizen. It turns out he had lied during the immigration process about war crimes during the Bosnian conflict. To use your language and reasoning, does this mean Obama was trying to find any way to get white people and Europeans out of America? Of course not. Obama was simply enforcing the law and trying to root out fraud from the immigration system. It seems this is the same thing going on here under Trump administration.
8
It's not a perfect analogy, but does this remind anyone of the Nuremberg Laws?
28
Where are the Christian fundamentalists who swear up and down to uphold family value on their president's policy of tearing family apart?
29
The silence on the Christian left is what is appalling. The Christian right is complicit.
3
ICE folk need to get a life instead of destroying that of others.
22
Mean spirited retroactive racism. Nothing more or less. A pointless waste of government resources simply to make an ideological statement.
23
@Norman McDougall
How do you know it was racism? You think they went to her house, noticed she was black, and then decided to hassle her? Really?
I guarantee you this began with paperwork. And if you read the story, you'd see the last POTUS to push this was Obama.
8
@Norman McDougall. How exactly is enforcing the law “racist”? Immigration law is race neutral. Color blind. See the stories about people from Bosnia or Canada or the UK.
9
In that case, Trump has better ensure his first and third wives and his third wife’s parents - the chain migrants - head the list and line.
22
Attention Donald Trump:
When the Founding Fathers wrote the presidential pardon power into the Constitution, they weren't thinking of people like Joe Arpaio. They were thinking of people like Odette Dureland.
43
Either naturalization fraud is common or I have had an unusual experience in having several people tell me of their stories of fraudulent immigration and subsequent naturalization documents. I can’t speak to any particular case but I think it is something we need to look at. We don’t need our relationship with new citizens to start out as us being the sucker.
17
this is pure government-run domestic terrorism, for the purposes of terrorizing everyone who is not white. plain and simple as day.
22
I am sure Melania made some mistake on her application and we do know that her naked photos were done in 95 and she didn’t get a work visa until 96. “Ship her back” (and her parents also).
36
Is the name "Trump" or "Drumpf"? Sounds like fraud!
22
I’m sorry, but we wouldn’t even be reading about this travesty of justice if this family were of “white European” extraction. The racism in our immigration practice is rank, rotten and repugnant.
Unless you or your immediate ancestors are or were part of the native peoples of the Americas, you and your ancestors are here illegally. Or if your ancestors were dragged here kicking and screaming to be the slaves of white Europeans, you are certainly excused and are owed your stay here. But White Europeans stole this country from those who got here first. You can contort your logic all you want, but you can’t escape that fact. So all the chest thumping about how this land is mine, is ours, is hypocritical and specious.
Persecuting people like this Haitian family is simply a game of The lord and the flies.
19
How can article on denaturalization, not mention Rasmeah Odeh.
1
Geez, I hope so. There are a ton of liars who told big fibs to get into the country, and are now public charges. We need to also begin to deport the thousands of foreign scientists who fake data and commit scientific fraud after naturalization.
13
There must be real problematic and criminal persons on whom time and money spent by Homeland Security would be better spent.
13
What about green card marriages?
12
@Charlie
Good point, Charlie.
5
What do you want to bet the the cases filed are statistically racially biased against non-whites?
8
This is why the media is thought of as fake news by many. The New York Times did not bother to write this story back when O was in charge even though the story clearly states several paragraphs into the story “grew out of a U.S.C.I.S. program STARTED under the Obama administration called Operation Janus” But even more insulting is you have to go really deep into the story to get this gem “cases by the Trump administration may be explained by Operation Janus, adding that the numbers for 2017 and 2018 might look similar UNDER a Democratic administration”. So again a false narrative from a media who can’t get over 2016 and fell asleep for 8 years of the Obama administration.
19
@Kimberlyann
Did you know about Operation Janus before you read this article? I'm sorry reading is so hard for you that you say this is fake because you had to read the whole piece to see the NYT explaining the whole history and context.
2
First to go: Melania and her mum and dad.
8
It is one thing to denaturalize those who became citizens by hiding a terrible past; John Demjanuk and others who assisted the Nazis to carry out the Holocaust, or Bosnian Serbs who committed atrocities against their Muslim neighbors are good examples. Those are the sort of people who by their actions forfeited their right to live in free, multicultural nation where everyone has the same rights--ostensibly, anyway.
Denaturalizing law-abiding citizens due to an innocent paperwork error or government-processing error is a complete perversion of the country's ideals.
29
@AussieAmerican. The cases discussed here do not hinge on clerical errors, but on fraud, plain and simple.
11
@Overpop
1. Badly kept records, and a fraudster handling paperwork--not the victim
2. Being adopted as a baby and not knowing it
3. Misspelling your name (flipping two letters) in an unfamiliar alphabet
Wow! Real criminals! We're so much safer now!
3
Any bets every one of these cases is a person of color? Trump and his bigoted henchman wouldn’t disturb a white naturalized citizen, then we could go after Melania and her parents.
7
@M E R
I wouldn't take that bet - because Caucasians have been deported through denaturalization.
8
Unfortunately clerical errors are rife in the immigration bureaucracy, so one must expect a lot more "denaturalizations".
8
Another judge suppressing the facts, as though the constitution is divorced from justice and morality. What’s needed is the ghost of Scalia to rattle the chains he forged in life before the morally bankrupt judge and mean spirited agents who allowed this to happen.
6
If immigrants commit fraud in their applications to become US citizens, then I have no issues with their prosecution and deportation.
20
@Pierre de Simitiere
- I guess it's a challenge for you to read the article - and I'm sure you will change your tune when they come for you!
4
@Pierre de Simitiere. And if they DON'T? And some clerk ( perhaps worried about not getting paid during a government shutdown???) makes an error? Or as in the case of Odette a possibly fraudulant entity used (stole!) her information--- should SHE pay??? When we suffer identity theft- when these endless credit card hacks and hotel data breaches occur--- WE are not the ones prosecuted, the wrong doers are. This is disgraceful, and it is disgusting to see people cheering on these despicable actions when INNOCENT peoples lives are ruined. Commit a crime knowingly? Yes, you should.face penalties. To discover you were ADOPTED--- imagine your entire world--- vanished!!!- and then be stripped of your citizenship for some one ELSES failure to be completely honest? For shame, for shame.
2
Trump-Pence-GOP regime continues the assault on American and their own self-professed Christian values of helping those in need, kindness and rule of law.
Collectively, they are not only a disgrace to our country, but a disgusting disgrace to humanity.
9
Well, this is appalling. What's even more appalling is that it is unsurprising. Just another in a long litany of nasty, small-minded racist bigotry that swirls around this Administration's policy making apparatus. I used to be proud to be an American. The Trump administration is making that harder, day by depressing day.
5
@Grant Franks
Obviously you missed the information in the article about the Obama administration. From the article:
"U.S.C.I.S. program started under the Obama administration called Operation Janus. Both operations seek to identify cases in which people might have been naturalized despite apparent deportation orders or concerns about past fraud or criminal charges. "
9
Well, people, I've got a surprise for you!
This sort of thing was pioneered by the right wing - oops sorry - 'conservative' Australian government under the 'leadership' of John Winston Howard.
There are very close links between our goose-steppers and yours. In fact your new US ambassador to Australia was an electoral advisor to Trump. With a federal election due next year his services will be in demand by our 'conservative' politicians.
Deporting people back to the old country after serving a prison term has been going on for some time. Often the person arrived in Australia as an infant or child & cannot speak any language but English, has no relatives, and no way of earning a living or obtaining government help in their exile.
It has reached such bizarre lengths as deporting/attempting to deport people whose fathers are Australian Aborigines but whose mothers are foreign or naturalised.
The right-wing nut jobs (RWNJs) have asked at what point anyone of non-English descent should be considered an Australian citizen.
They want all of us gone.
11
Priorities, folks, priorities. If Trump would stop spending money on this kind of nonsense, he'd have the money for his ridiculous wall.
5
How utterly barbaric. We sell green cards to wealthy Chinese and Russian "investors," and we allow the existence of birth tourism, but we'll chase down harmless, hard-working people who didn't get their paperwork quite right? This is unjust.
The Trump administration needs to end, NOW. We are marching toward genocide and the pace is picking up. Get these animals out of the White House and out of Washington before it's too late.
24
This is beyond belief. It made me think, my grandma who migrated from Ukraine in 1908, bringing my mother as a toddler, never got her citizenship ( she got her first papers) My Mother did become a citizen. What if in the Nazified zeal that the era of Trump is becoming, they trace it back, and throw me out? No, that is too dystopian... on the other hand...??
n
7
All of these politicians and government officials, from trump on down (or, more accurately, up), speak with apparent conviction about "protecting the system from fraud". And yet we ALL know that Melania Trump lied to get into the United States. None of these people will raise a finger to prosecute her and her family for their fraud. When they do, I will believe they are sincere. Until then, I will believe, with confidence, that what all these officials are REALLY about is letting the "right" (read: white) people in while "protecting" us from "those" people.
12
Obviously the system is not a feel good story. On the other hand in the communities where I work immigration fraud is endemic. If we are serious we could start somewhere else. How about getting rid of birthright citizenship and really penalizing employers who hire illegal immigrants. That would really help and it is where the fraud really needs to be attacked. Unfortunately the government needs to do these cases to maintain any credibility with people coming to the US. If there is no enforcement or evaluation that news gets out fast from the Punjab to Tegucigalpa. Perhaps there should be different immigration quotas from countries that do not keep records or maybe a waiver of documentation requirements for citizens of those countries. I note this enforcement action started under Obama. I also note that the vast majority of cases are against black and brown people making some complain they are racist. However whites only make up 10 to 15 percent of the world population so any enforcement is going to affect brown people more than white people. And I am brown and fully cognizant of the fact that the US will be fully brown in 50 to 100 years as the whites die out. It is not racism....it is reality. And if we are not serious how about just eliminating any border controls with Haiti. Why should a Haitian child born in Haiti have such a bad situation when a Haitian child born in the US just a few hundred miles away gets so much? How is that fair?
13
How LOW can our country sink? Apparently we will end in ignominy!
2
"Is Denaturalization the Next Front in the Trump Administration’s War on Immigration?"
Is asking a question going to substitute for an article's actually telling readers something that is true?
6
@polymath
No, the headline is a way to blame the Trump administration so that people who read only the headlines won't read the information about the same things being done by the Obama administration.
9
As long as these cases are heard by judges, I have no issue at all. I do hope the lady featured is not deported though.
3
My God. Are green card holders next? Or maybe Melania? My Irish mother lived in the USA for 25 years legally
and never became a citizen. Thank goodness she isn’t alive to see this antiAmerican president.
5
This isnt a story, its an opinion piece and should be in the editorial section. The writers own numbers bear it out.
First, let me say I despise about anything that comes from this excuse for an administration. And this isnt about security or even delegitimizing the immigration process. Its about coming up with red herrings to bring up at election time just like the voter fraud lie the repubs have been about for 2 decades.
Having said that, it appears a) that by his own numbers the process has slowed to a trickle since mid-1990's. Per the story, an AVERAGE of 2100 people annually were stripped of citizenship and deported. Now the number is about 300 per year. So thats an 83% DECREASE in deportation by my math not an alarming increase and b) the rate has been the same under the disaster as under Obama. So either they're both rotten or neither are take your pick but lets be fair here.
And regards the larger picture, I certainly do have a problem with deportations of say Haitians. But if given the choice of telling men 15-50 from terrorist countries if you go there, you stay IF IN CONJUNCTION WITH removing troops from countries where we've played whack-a-mole for decades (ex Afghanistan) and troops continue to needlessly die, then I'm 100% OK with it. Are we penalizing some? Sure. But its alot better than Afghanis, Iraqis or Somalis learning to viscerally hate for life their American soldier invaders and provide raw fodder for ISIS etc for no good end I see.
10
Melania Trump originally entered the US on a visitor’s visa, but she began working almost immediately. Therefore, it’s reasonable to assume she knew she was coming here to work, and that she lied upon entry about her purpose in coming to the US.
One of the questions on the N-400 Application for Naturalization reads: “Have you EVER given any U.S. Government officials any information or documentation that was false, fraudulent, or misleading?”
Is Trump going to investigate Melania’s Naturalization? Is she in danger of being deported to Slovenia? What about her chain-migration parents who recently became citizens? Maybe Trump should build a Trump hotel in Slovenia so they can all live in comfort back in the home country.
24
This is an absolute OUTRAGE. ANYONE in the world should be able to become a U.S. citizen if they really want to.
Cracking down on fraud and crime, as the Trump regime is doing, is an extremely racist practice.
This is deeply unfair to the truest Americans of all -- those who were not born here and have never been here, but who really want to come here.
16
@JasonM
Alas, sarcasm is lost on this crowd
8
It seems to be clear that the federal Justice Department has ignored some of the most critical immigration fraud cases in the country. Apparently there are people residing in, and visiting, the White House who may have committed immigration fraud.
Justice should start by investigating the naturalization of Frederick Trump, Elisabeth Christ, and Mary Anne MacLeod. If they are denaturalized, then the chain citizenship of their offspring, Donald must be investigated. And everyone knows that NYC birth records are notoriously inaccurate. NYC is, after all, a blue city in a blue state.
I have serious doubts that Mr. Trump is a natural born citizen as required by the Constitution. Indeed, nothing about him seems very natural.
And it is critical that the Justice Department investigate his foreign born wives. Who did he pay off to get them green cards and citizenship? And get l Melania's family into the country (chain migration, anyone)?
Citizenship enforcement is important. and it must start at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Note: I must admit that my wife's family does not have proper immigration papers, having arrived aboard the Fortune in 1621 by leave of His Majesty, James I. They claim their Rights and Protection under the Common Law of England.
24
I would like to address 2 parts of the Dureland case. The first is that her attorney claims that Dureland should be allowed to start the immigration process all over again even though the record says she remained in the country after being ordered deported. No one who has defied a deportation order should be allowed to legally remain in the U.S. Allowing one person to defy the order who later claims he or she has otherwise led a decent life and so should be allowed to stay would open the floodgates to all of the people who have defied deportation orders.
My other concern pertains to whether Dureland actually did apply for asylum under a name similar to her mother’s maiden name. Her lawyer discovered that a man Dureland had hired to help her fill in documents was later convicted "for defrauding clients, using their names and identities to file fake tax returns”. The lawyer is suggesting that the man used Dureland’s name, photo, and fingerprints to request asylum for her though I am not sure what he would have gained from doing this.
Is the federal government now regulating any individual or entity that charges people for helping them fill in federal applications?
15
Can't trump be denaturalized due to the lies he has told? How many civil and criminal cases has he lost, How many more are to come? Send him back to Poland.
2
This feels like shades off fascism to me. The same folks who complain about over government intrusion in peoples lives are fully behind armed agents barging in to check your immigration status. The other part of this which surprises me is how eager they are to prosecute this on what looks like thin evidence. I suppose it is easy to beat up on the little folks to create the illusion of effectiveness. Seems to be the mission statement of this administration.
6
"Congress earlier this year to approve funding to hire 300 new agents for other immigration-fraud investigations..."
If they deployed these new agents out into the country and prosecuted any person who hired any illegal alien (including Trump) and made the fines large enough to cover the cost of deportation, there would be no illegal aliens. This administration says it wants to clean up the fraudsters, the real fraudsters are the people who use undocumented workers as slave labor. They could wander through my neighborhood on any given day and give out 20 tickets to the people employing gardeners, nannies, housecleaners and roofers. Hit the nail salons, fast food joints and factories that bottle pills for Wal-Mart. Make E-verify mandatory, first offense a hefty fine, second offense jail. Go after the CEO's using phony H1B visas to bring in cheaper engineers. Go after the legal US citizens who abuse the immigration laws to get around paying decent wages to their workers, because they can. The Trump administration doesn't want to solve the problem, they just want to scare people.
118
@thewriterstuff
I agree with you that "e-verify" should be mandatory, and I did regretfully read that Trump's N.J. Golf Course is not using it, but please be aware that Trump has asked Congress to require all employers to start using it.
6
@thewriterstuff, President Trump has repeatedly supported legislation in Congress to make E-verify mandatory, including the legislation proposed by Senator Grassley in the US Senate late last winter/early spring; and the legislation proposed in the House of Representatives by Representative Goodlatte. It is instructive that not a single Democrat signed on to either bill.
In addition, California, a one-party state with super-majority of Democrats, passed legislation that specifically prohibits the state, cities & counties from mandating that private employers use E-verify.
So when it comes to making E-verify mandatory and going after employers, the unfortunate reality is that the Democrats are the ones preventing solution to the problem.
12
@thewriterstuff
You are absolutely right. I have made application to such companies to test the abuses taking place. I am an engineer, with much higher experience and education than the person actually hired for the job. I even had inside informant within the company to get feedback information on what was going on.
What is so strange is that the companies have no problems getting the H1B visas. I can only suspect that the government employee is in on this game.
5
From saying they want to reduce illegal immigration, to seeking to gut legal immigration (by nonwhites), to harassing and ending lawful asylum applications, and now to advocating stripping Americans (presumably also nonwhites) of citizenship, we see the Trump regime’s endgame. It’s all about “Making America White Again”.
6
Whenever this maladministration has a choice, whether related to immigration, the environment or civil rights, it picks the path of cruelty and despoliation.
6
Is there ever going to be an end to this cruelty, deliberate and unreasonable. A person who is a citizen now, has lived a decent life, has reared children any parent would be proud to brag about,, threatened with losing that citizenship is simply a country whose laws are tinged with a viciousness that does make America exceptional indeed - and that is not a compliment.
8
As has happened all too often during the past 2 years, I am ashamed to be an American.
4
The story fills me with horror and shame, renewed horror and shame, at persecution of persons who are integrated into American society. Edwidge Danticat, the much-lauded Haitian-American writer is the daughter of a father who overstayed his visa, worked and sacrificed and contributed to American society as do his thoroughly Americanized children. That time and money is being spent on hounding people like Dureland, like Danticat's parents, makes America worse than the former East Germany and other totalitarian states. http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
5
"Is Denaturalization the Next Front in the Trump Administration's War on Immigration?" I certainly hope so. This could be an even greater country with about 20 million fewer people.
12
This is especially troubling when the president doesn't preserve the independence of law enforcement, personally directing the prosecution of his adversaries. Any naturalized citizen who calls him out risks getting targeted for denaturalization.
5
Just how many cruel ways will this administration find to divide Americans into us and them? How can a naturalized citizen embrace her new country if she fears the slightest mistep can get her deported?
Perhaps there are some rare cases when losing citizenship is necessary - I'm still mulling that over. But if a citizen, natural born or naturalized, commits a crime, we have jails. They serve their
time and return to the community.
I fear we may need to snuff Lady Liberty's torch until 2020.
4
Kafkaesque travesty. Don't we have more pressing things to do than pick on decent taxpaying citizens?
10
Yes,there are countries where there are no birth certificates.or can be altered to show relationship,and all you need is a sworn affidavit[for a few dollars] and everyone is on the plane to USA,while others whom we need [scientists,have to wait in line]..
I agree with a previous writer ,if their life was in danger ,why do they go back to buy property and vacation??
13
@R. Nagesh you're mixing elements of different stories to portray them all as somehow problematic.
1
They came for the naturalized citizens, I was not one so I didn’t speak up...
17
A lifelong white collar criminal is trying to create chaos by suggesting that criminality is everywhere to deflect his own crimes. I only wish that we could deport that criminal and his entire family of crooks. Do you think Slovenia might want them? After all the Slovenian naturalized citizen did work illegally in the US. Asking for a friend.
6
RE: “For decades, the American people have begged and pleaded with their government for a lawful system of immigration that serves the national interest — a system that has as its foremost priorities their safety, their jobs and their well-being,” Sessions said in one news release about denaturalization cases...
I'm not sure who has been begging and pleading, other then Ann Coulter and her ilk, but I am absolutely certain that this poor woman poses no threat to anyone's safety, their jobs, and their well-being.
6
@melibeo I have been begging and pleading. Yes, the story is sad, but if this woman misrepresented herself in legal paperwork, she created her own problem. Because she is black does not excuse that. The problem is that everyone feels that their case is exceptional and the rules should be bent for them.
11
Sounds like a new form of voter suppression. This time at the federal level.
2
A "million files". This program to get rid of citizens who don't look like us is worthy of the old Soviet Union. As one of your interlocutors said, what benefit does America and ordinary Americans get from persecuting naturalzied citizens.
Question for the ACLU. How is it that the courts have not ruled against civil denaturalization as a denial of due process?
5
As a naturalized US citizen with US born children, this entire Trump anti-immigration and anti-immigrant push scares me. Additionally I have a green card holding son-in-law and a green card holding brother, both of whom are dark-skinned. I am afraid for them and for my family and for all of my country.
4
It's no surprise that ICE is behind this. It is a fundamentally un-American organization and it must be shut down.
3
@Greg Truempy
ICE is not behind this. Perhaps you are unaware that ICE is a legal agency, created by Congress in 2002.
Perhaps you are unaware that the US has had laws concerning immigration and naturalization since 1790.
INS, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, preceded ICE. (There may have been other iterations between 1790 and today.)
8
Cruelty is king in this country right now. This makes no sense. The resources wasted and the disregard for human compassion is limitless it appears.
" I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson
1
#AbolishICE
My heart goes out to this family. I am embarrassed by how parts of our govt have treated them.
2
I favor law and the enforcement of law, immigration or otherwise. I expect many cases which have been/will be brought forward are justified but, at some point and as these examples indicate, Inspector Javert is more wrong (evil?) than Jean Valjean, and most certainly the lesser man. Let's apply justice judiciously.
2
Sorry but having been to court as a juror and as a party to lawsuits, I have no great faith in any country’s legal system or ephemeral pie in the sky notions of justice. Innocents as well as the guilty are convicted every day. A person charged or sued faces a huge burden on their resources. If they face a monsieur or madame Javert who has an eye on their stats, it doesn’t matter wat the truth is. And, a system of justice untempered by reasonableness or mercy will only endure for as long as a majority believes in the self promoting nonsense of prosecutors, or are themselves corrupted, or solemnly committed to Procrustean notions of justice. It used to be that we thought it better for the guilty to go free than to punish the innocent but the government is going 180 but insisting on its infallibility.
2
There is no more faithful and patriotic person than someone who is here by choice rather than simply by accident of birth. That is one reason we are a great country. When Gingrich wanted Green Card holders to be denied benefits that they had paid for, I applied for citizenship the next day. I went to the post office the day I became a citizen and I voted against him at the first opportunity. Fortunately, I never needed to vote against him again. Unlike some other victims of Trump, we have the vote, and some of us have money. May our wrath, in the form of donations, and at the ballot box, be unbounded.
6
"The government can now denaturalize citizens only if the state can prove they should never have obtained citizenship in the first place, i.e., if it was acquired through some material fraud or misrepresentation."
This seems pretty reasonable to me as long as the process is followed legally. As the article clearly delineates, denaturalization has been prosecuted under all of the recent presidents, including Obama.
14
The only thing Trump is guilty of when it comes to immigration is trying to put some order to a problem that neither Democrats, or Republicans, care to solve. Republicans like the cheap labor and keeping wages down on Americans, and all the Dems see is hopeful future Dem voters. Because the system is so broken over illegal immigration, now they are messing with actual legal immigration programs like Economic Diversity Visa Lottery, and Family Repatriation. If the Dems and Repubs would simply fix the illegal problem, the legal immigration could great for America.
9
Quote from the article: "...Republican officials, including Trump, have often held up scarce examples of fraudulent voting as evidence that such measures as voter identification laws are necessary — even as they’ve been unable to marshal evidence that voter fraud is widespread.
Burglaries are not very common where I live. Should people nevertheless keep the doors to their homes unlocked?
9
@Eva Nowhere is it suggested that legitimate enforcement should be abandoned.
To use your analogy, no, you needn't keep your door unlocked; but you don't need to install a system that shoots everyone who happens to come onto your porch either. Nor do you need to allow a SWAT officer to camp out in your living room and search everyone leaving the premises.
1
@Josh Lepsy
No one is suggesting to use your extreme and outlandish examples as means for voter identification. People need to have a driving license to drive, a passport to travel to other countries, an address to receive mail -- why is having to produce an ID while voting such a big no-no for democrats? If it was up to me, I would make it mandatory across the country. Voting is both a right and a privilege, but if one is not willing to prove their identity and citizenship for the purpose of voting, I don't think this country desperately needs their vote.
12
I agreed with other people on USCIS should put more focus on preventing fraud. But once this person has become a citizen due to a mistake that USCIS made, it should not be reversible. USCIS already take tremendous amount of time to process immigration cases. The vetting process is thorough and extremely long. But once they made mistake, it's their responsibility. Nobody should be denaturalized unwillingly.
@Chris
Liken Rasmeah Odeh who blew up students at the Hebrew University cafeteria? She should have been able to stay after lying on her visa application? Or John Demjanuk? Surprisingly (not) people lie and occasionally they are caught. The approach to illegal immigration in the US has made many people insensitive to actually law breaking, creating a hierarchy of crimes that we think are okay. Taking someone’s identity like the woman working at Trump’s club? Not a real crime - unless it’s your identity she’s stole. The world has gone mad.
4
This is defensible in an extremely limited number of cases but very dangerous as a precedent. Carried far enough it could target an enormous number of people. Not a good precedent.
10
Don't we have better things to do with our tax dollars than to hunt down people who have otherwise led law abiding and productive lives? I can imagine that people fleeing countries in turmoil make mistakes on forms, can't gather the requisite documents or hire people to help them who then take advantage or don't do things correctly.
But this is really about building an ever more powerful and far reaching police state. Where does this end -- you start by stripping citizenship from one group and then move on to the next. How far back will we go? How about those groups - like many Italian-Americans who entered the US "without papers"?
There is some irony that this article appears on the same day as another which notes that in many places in the US deaths outnumber births. We have a declining population -- shouldn't we be looking to keep productive individuals rather than deporting them?
130
@historyprof We have a declining population due to suicides and opiate deaths, which are often suicides in another guise. And why are there so many suicides? Often because of unemployment. More foreign workers, fewer jobs for USA citizens.
11
@GeorgePTyrebyter. Educate yourself. We are not losing population at non replacement levels due to opiates or suicide. We are losing population due to low birth rate, and in places like Germany and Japan this has led to serious problems as there are far too few younger people to care for the elderly and sick. Do your homework, don't blame people with addiction and mental illness for problems you made up. For shame.
3
Are you saying low birth rates are not tied to employment?
2
What seems to be missing in all of this immigration rancor is common sense. Is the person living a productive life, contributing to the overall good of our society, paying their taxes along with everybody else? If so, perhaps a measure of compassion is more due than revoking the citizenship based upon some some mishandled documentation, probably created when the person first arrived here in a state of confusion and uncertainty. Certainly there are those who try and game the system, and those who try and break the law need to be deported. But one needs discernment of intent versus honest mistake. Overzealous prosecutors who feel they have to rack up so many cases to keep in favor with their bosses, diminish the value of citizenship of us all.
136
I'll bet there are plenty of criminals who appear to be good people. Simply because they appear to be normal people does not mean they should be exempt from the law.
The idea that society would expell someone for fraud should be one of the many reasons why you should not commit fraud.
The USCIS actions are the result of criminal activity and I see no reason to be emotionally manipulated by the affected parties.
13
@Margo The article makes it clear that the burden of "proof"in these cases is far lower than it is for comparable cases of criminal fraud. Furthermore, in addition to those who willfully deceived the authorities they are going after people who had no intention of committing fraud; indeed, they have explicitly stated as much, which you might have gathered had you comprehended the article.
Add to this the random confiscation of passports combined with demands for further proof from people unlikely to be in a position to obtain it. This is not about prosecuting fraud, it is about prosecuting the innocent while going overboard. To suggest that such prosecutions are solely the result of criminal activity flies in the face of the information given here and is at best an indiscretion.
13
@Patrick
"What seems to be missing in all of this immigration rancor is common sense. Is the person living a productive life, contributing to the overall good of our society, paying their taxes along with everybody else? If so, perhaps a measure of compassion is more due than revoking the citizenship..."
¿WHAT ABOUT THE COMMON SENSE OF RESPECTING THE LAW OF THE COUNTRY THAT IS GIVING YOU A NEW OPPORTUNITY IN YOUR LIFE? ¿WHAT ABOUT THE MILLIONS OF US THAT WAITED ALL THE TIME THAT WAS NEEDED IN ORDER TO DO IT ACCORDING TO THE LAW? ¡STOP PROMOTING CORRUPCION! ¡STOP CONVERTING THIS COUNTRY IN A BANANA REPUBLIC!
14
In 2002, my late wife finally got to the USA after going through an arduous at the time Immigration and Naturalization Service Process for 3 years. We went through proper procedures and DID NOT LIE about her background, name, or any other reason. I have no pity for this Haitian Woman who knowingly lied to American Authorities.
Do I agree with Trump's immigration policy? NO! Still, the woman in question knowingly lied and before Trump was ever president, the punishment is what's happening to her now and being stripped of her citizenship and deported.
42
@Robert TH Bolin, Jr.: Except there were no actual witnesses that linked Ms. Durland to the attempted fraud. There was a family name (not her name) on an application and writing that merely looked like hers. Unfortunately the government has to prove less to revoke citizenship than it does to prove the crimes of shoplifting, or littering.
42
@Robert TH Bolin, Jr.
There was evidence that it was her agent who lied, not her. And that evidence was not allowed to be heard by the jurors.
13
@Robert TH Bolin, Jr. I find it disheartening that someone who has seen one immigration path up close could be so dismissive. It's a terribly hard process as you pointed out, and people make mistakes on both sides. (My parents' documents were actually lost once or twice by the system.)
Also, did you not even read that her document preparer was later convivted of fraud? And if she had been trying to get approved under a fake name, why would she just apply and not follow through? And since it was her husband who could file for asylum, why would she even be trying to apply on her own?
I had plenty of privilege during the immigration process - I'm white, English is my first langauge, my parents did most of it, and we had enough money to hire lawyers. But these stories still scare me, because they point to how my citizenship is lesser than that of someone born here. Can't you imagine how horrible it would have been if you and your wife had lost your life together in the US because of a minor mistake in paperwork, or as the result of someone else's fraud?
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As a naturalized American citizen, I'm disgusted by what this article has just brought to our attention, and this statement from it, should give us all pause:
"Weil found that between 1906, when naturalization law was standardized and centralized, and the 1970s, 145,000 United States citizens, native born and naturalized, were stripped of their citizenship by the courts."
"native born and naturalized"
In this era of rampant identity theft, our lives are like dystopian novels, written by who knows who.
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This story and one here in California about the federal government looking to deport people who were political prisoners in Vietnam show the cruelty of the current administration. I was born here to parents who were born here and I am wondering when they will come for me?
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As a naturalized American, I have become used to hearing platitudes like "all Americans are equal before the law". It's patently obvious that this is not strictly true. Wealthy Americans are more equal than the middlin' rich and even more equal than the poor. Now it appears that native born Americans are more equal than those of us who actually swore an oath to become US nationals. Though wealth and influence count for something here, too.
I wonder, how thoroughly has USCIS checked the credentials for naturalizations of, say, Melania trump and Rupert Murdoch, both of which were somewhat irregular?
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@mancuroc This is precisely why some fear the influx of those from banana republics: Often, due to poor experience, there's this inability to embrace and honor the rule of law. To be sure, there are plenty of Americans (Kratz) who adhere to this ever-flexible "well, it didn't hurt anyone, or it would be heartess in my case, or others have gotten away with it." But we certainly don't need any more!
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@mancuroc I am so sorry to say this. When a nation is in decline, cherished and proud traditions become hollow platitudes that mock their original intent. Add to "All Americans are equal before the law," "manifest destiny" and "the wisdom of our founding fathers."
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@mancuroc Indeed. Don't forget Melania's parents.
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The ongoing malleability of what passes for the truth and ostensibly the basis of law is shocking. The fact that untold thousands of dollars are spent hounding people who have made a productive life in the United States leaves me wondering what next barrier to social insanity will be overthrown.
As an example, it was reported that Mario Cuomo once regarded marijuana as a "gateway drug". He is now pressing for its immediate legalization so that the resulting tax revenue can help fund the ongoing multi-billion dollar modernization of the NYC subway system. I ask myself, what do all of the thousands of young men sitting in Rikers and other prison cells for the sale of cannabis think of that one?
You can't call it justice when you make it up as you go along for no other reason than that the wealthy and powerful are scheming to retain their wealth and power by promoting xenophobic and other divisions in the rest of society.
I agree with the metaphor of a gathering storm. At some point the sleeping public will rise in opposition to this sustained abuse. My prediction? 2020.
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@Robert. I suppose in your world.view it is not possible for Gov Cuomo to have done his homework, educated himself, grown and evolved in his.views? No? Maybe you should ask him. As to those unfortunate souls in Rikers etc, most of those people were caught in FEDERAL no tolerance "Rockefeller" laws. Are WE evolving on this issue? Yes. NY is now surrounded by legal weed States, and we should keep up, and review all those.drug cases. Free up those cells for the current US mis-administration criminals our newly minted AG Tish James and Co will be prosecuting, along with a host of other law breakers of a more serious nature than a gram or two. We once counted as legal holding humans in chattel slavery, we grew, and evolved.
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@Robert, just a clarification, do you mean Andrew Cuomo, the current governor of NY and son of Mario Cuomo? Mario Cuomo passed in 2015.
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As a Haitian American, my heart absolutely breaks for Odette and her family. You come to this country work hard and build a better life only to be denied your humanity in an unfair court system.
Too many new immigrants are subject to predatory practices when applying for legal residence. It’s sad that her claims were not heard in court.
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Was it really established as unfair? We got her side of the story, but is that the objective truth? Is it the complete truth?
I expect there was no coin-flip or careless decision making in getting to the decision to remove her citizenship.
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@Margo If she wasn't allowed to document the info in court then I suspect we will never know. You really want the government making those decisions with no recourse to citizens?
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@Margo I don't think it was a coin-flip, but a deliberate attempt to rid America of people Mr. Trump and his cronies don't like. Is it any coincidence that Mrs. Dureland is black, or the members of the Yemeni community primarily Muslim? How much time and money do you think was wasted combing through old records looking for the slightest misstep? Not just for Mrs. Dureland, but hundreds of other refugees from Haiti? It was stated in court that she went through a third party, *who was later convicted* of fraud! How is Mrs. Dureland responsible or culpable in this?
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I am very aware of the poor quality of the Department of State's records keeping. I would be extremely reluctant to rely on their existence or availability over any length of time. Similarly, the Department of Justice's records have gaps and losses - there is no guarantee at all that their records reflect the truth or anything even like the truth of any matter that came under their control. Because of the consistent irregularities and faulty records keeping in the governmental warehouses - NARA especially - it is beyond reason that any consequential case could be developed that dated more than perhaps - perhaps - five years back. The idea that the government could be bringing these kinds of cases against individuals who obtained citizenship thirty and forty and fifty years ago is ludicrous. It is absolute fantasy.
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I am a naturalized citizen from one of the "bad hombre" countries and have made similarly themed comments in previous articles about the growing focus on denaturalization, but it is worth repeating.
While this has been part of the USCIS workload during previous administrations, the renewed focus and the intentional "calling to attention" that these denaturalizations are happening is intended to create fear and quiet the voices of millions of naturalized citizens. I say this as someone with a law license, who spent most of her childhood here, and "passes" as native born all the time, and who would have access to countless resources to fight something like this. I still get scared when I read these stories.
It is very clear that this approach can easily expand to "lesser" offenses, like inadvertently omitting something from your application (or if you're a kid when your family naturalizes, being subject to mistakes others made on your behalf). The broad discretion given to USCIS creates a perfect storm that can be exploited by people who hate immigration of any sort. It is very clear that some of our fellow Americans do not want any kind of immigration, at all, period. They do not care that these policies are actively affecting, whether literally or mentally, those of us who are also Americans.
When you get your American passport, you have the "holy grail" of being an immigrant in this country. We know it, they know it, and they want to take it away.
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@Attorney I taught in a NYC Public High School for years and my students frequently said there is no such thing as an American. So what are you talking about when you say fellow Americans. No such thing as an American we are all immigrants. There is no reason to follow the laws, constitutional or other. Illegal immigration is ok, breaking any low is ok. Or are you saying, we have to follow laws you like but the ones you don't care for are ok to break?
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@MikeYou should start with rich and powerful folks if you are going to get self-righteous about obeying laws. Start with our president, for instance, and his vice president and cabinet officials. Then go to corporations and see how legally they all operate. And you, do you never violate a law? Do you ever speed?
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@Mike
Did he/she make a mention of breaking the law??
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This is an important story. As far as I know, the only codified restriction on naturalized citizens was that they could not become President. Stripping naturalized citizens of their citizenship furthers the goal of creating two classes of citizens and tells immigrants that they can never truly be Americans. This is exactly what the Republican Party wants at this time. People need certainty in their lives to thrive. The idea that the government could take everything away from a person and family in an instant because of a mistake made decades before, spun as "fraud", is abhorrent to the idea of freedom. Every naturalized citizen--and those that love them--has to realize that they could be targeted by a cruel white-nationalist government. And even if the government's case fails, everything is thrown into question while it is pending. That's frightening.
The bar for these denaturalization suits should be very high and the government should have to pay attorneys' fees if it brings a losing case.
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They needed asylum because Haiti was too dangerous, like many Haitians claim today, but they go back for vacations and they no longer fear they won't be able to get into the United States but they don't fear danger in Haiti now. The asylum claim was questionable. Read the oath you take when you become an American citizen. You swear to give up all loyalty to your former country. Ninety percent of naturalized citizens retain dual citizenship. How do you retain dual citizenship if you give up all loyalty to your former country? This woman was caught in a lie with literally her fingerprints as evidence. We are asked to look the other way because they are good people. Do I get to lie and break laws without consequences? I feel like there are two classes of people, those who can break the law without consequence and the rest of us.
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@Mike Did you read the story, or just skim? Her husband claimed asylum because he was targeted for protesting the Haitian government. It was granted, and he filed petitions for his wife and daughter. Since that government is no longer in power, they don't have to fear traveling back to Haiti. And you apparently skipped a whole paragraph about a document preparer convicted of fraud that could have used Odette's fingerprints in a scheme.
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@Mike
not true. It depends on their country of origin. more than 10% of those who naturalize every year are from India for example. India does not allow dual citizenship. they have to give it up.
Many countries however do. Some years ago a government minister in Italy was found to have US citizenship as well and it caused a minor furore.
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@Mike Most naturalized US citizens retain dual citizenship simply because many countries don't have any facility to cancel citizenship (such as Iran). Maintaining multiple citizenships is simply the default.
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Can we agree - as a foundation - that 'naturalized' citizens that become naturalized as a result of a criminal act of misrepresentation should no longer be naturalized citizens?
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@SteveRR
No, not if the naturalized citizen was also unknowingly the victim of fraud. If she was a victim and she lived honorably as a citizen, they should not be punished. It should be made right for the benefit of her and her family.
And if it happened 20 years ago? We have statutes of limitations and squatters rights and other such laws on other matters eliminating persecution after an amount of time has past. Is this really something we need to destroy people's lives over?
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@SteveRR No. We can agree that the government should try to prevent fraud. It should do everything possible to prevent it during the immigration and naturalization process. But once someone takes an oath of citizenship, and receives a US Passport, it should be absolutely and permanently irreversible. The risk that some might gain citizenship through fraud is far outweighed by the assurance that citizenship is forever. An assurance that, for many of us reading this article, has been shattered.
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@Michael Gilman
It is not at all certain/proven that she was a victim of fraud. There was a fraudulent application with her photo and fingerprints. Fingerprints cannot be sent with an application; they are taken by immigration officials when the applicant shows up in person.
7
This is another example of the government's tendency to go after the powerless. The IRS chasing earned income applicants is another. If given a choice always pick on someone who can't afford a defense seems to be the policy at both the state and federal level.
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@Dan Barthel
You write, "The IRS chasing earned income applicants is another." Is it safe to assume you mean the Earned Income Tax Credit, a form of support to income tax filers that has allowed tax dollars to flow to fraudsters, including illegal immigrants.
EITC is one of the Big Three in errors a/k/a fraud:
Improper payments estimated at $115.3 billion in 2011.......that's Billion with a B - and it's down from 2010's $120.6 billion:
"What GAO Found
Federal agencies reported an estimated $115.3 billion in improper payments in
fiscal year 2011, a decrease of $5.3 billion from the prior year reported estimate
of $120.6 billion. According to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), the
$115.3 billion estimate was attributable to 79 programs spread among 17
agencies. Ten programs accounted for about $107 billion or 93 percent of the
total estimated improper payments agencies reported. The reported decrease in
fiscal year 2011 was primarily related to 3 programs—decreases in program
outlays for the Unemployment Insurance program, and decreases in reported
error rates for the Earned Income Tax Credit program and the Medicare
Advantage program. Further, OMB reported that agencies recaptured $1.25
billion in improper payments to contractors and vendors." https://www.gao.gov/assets/590/589681.pdf
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I am a current law student, and had the privilege of working with Irina Hughes as an intern on this case.
I remember sitting in Federal Court and watching her husband, children, and grandchild weep as the judge announced she would be deported. This case is heartbreaking, unacceptable, and one of the myriad reasons we need comprehensive immigration reform.
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Perhaps an investigation should be opened on Ted Cruz's family, Marco Rubio's family, and yes, Donald Trump's family and his wife's family as well. If anything hinting at fraud, bribery, or criminal activity is found they should be sent back to their home countries despite having or being granted citizenship. Let's see how fairly justice is carried out when more "important" people are involved.
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@hen3ry: For all of Mr. Trump's ranting about chain-migration, did you see the sweet way he gained entry for his wife's parents? And no body's taken them to court.
Yet.
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Yes, and Melania's chain migrating parents. I thought Don was opposed to chain migration and yet his in-laws recently were granted citizenship via his wife, who herself is suspected of fraud.
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@hen3ry best comment of the day (as usual).
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