I have a real problem with a 6 year old wearing makeup. To me that's the main issue here. When she's an adult she can do whatever she wants.
13
It seems obvious that until we are able to be comfortable with and encourage our children to express whatever aspects of their personalities they choose to express, without labeling that behavior as belonging to a specific gender, we won't get past this issue.
We make a lot of mistakes with the way we raise our children, starting with assigning gender at birth. We don't know how they'll feel as they grow. As parents, we have to be prepared for whatever they turn out to be, instead of deciding for them and steering them to be what we wish they were.
Last, I think the Little House on the Prarie example was not the best choice. I wonder if the author ever read the series. Mary, Laura's sister, was a very girlie girl and Laura admired her. Laura wanted to be her. She definitely was not a villain.
Nellie was not the villain because of her girliness, either. She was the villain because she was a bully and thought she was entitled to have everything her way because her parents were the richest people in town.
That said, it also must be noted that Laura is what's calld an "unreliable narrator". Everything is told from her perspective as a child who idolized her father and mother and sister Mary, so she portrayed them as being perfect. It's likely that the way Nellie treated her caused her to exaggerate the negative aspects of her personality in the same way she exaggerated the positive aspects of those she idolized.
4
I am more concerned about how girls and boys are taught about being respectful and managing power, their own and others. As others pointed out, though the girl in traditional girlie girl stereotype is weak, the modern version one can choose to be strong. The narrowness of all masculinity stereotypes enforced by most men and women (albeit more subtly by women) points to the lynch pin issue. Research suggests that men and women equally expect men to inhabit a narrower gender role than Is expected of women. If we support men having nearly as broad a gender role as women, I suspect gender roles And power for women would loosen up even more.
2
The measure of a culture respects both its cohesion around central values and the degree to which those on the margins can live a full life. But when the “We musters” come out, we gut the whole to give primacy to the marginal. This is Neo-Maoism. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now.
5
Very good points! Thanks for sharing your views and experience.
Most of what is coded as female in our culture is designed to communicate docility, servility, weakness, feeble-mindedness, and sexualization, from the heels we can't walk in to the make-up that's supposed to make us presentable in public, the uncomfortable, revealing clothing we're required to wear to perform our jobs, the vapid popular culture designed to entertain us, the second-rate jobs that are considered appropriate for us, the impossible body types we're meant to emulate. Boyish things aren't appealing simply because they're associated with the privileged gender (though there's that, too), but because of the attributes with which they're associated: strength, skill, agency, intelligence, courage. Sure, there are positive attributes associated with the feminine as well -- creativity, kindness, caring -- but we need to do a lot more work to tease those things out of the tangled mess of conventional femininity. We've seen the attempt fail spectacularly time and time again. Pop culture is littered with pathetic attempts at positive, feminist portrayals of femininity that only wind up being more infuriating for the blatant hypocrisy. Embracing the feminine isn't something that can happen in a vacuum. It happens in the context of a patriarchy in which we are the second sex, and as long as that's true, we need to look at everything our culture presents as feminine with a jaundiced eye.
7
Good grief, we fought gender bias HARD in early Feminism. So much contemporary gender writing these days seems like nothing more than re-runs. We need to ask ourselves what happened? How were decades of hard radical work wiped out? Think M E D I A?
6
This article could have taken it a step farther, looking past just clothes and make-up and exploring how this seeps into other life choices. For example, some of my particularly empower feminist friends sneer at people who do domestic-related work. Being a stay-at-home-mom is apparently not an empowered choice, but a signal that someone is not empowered/smart/confident/feminist.
You see this play out in all sorts of fields, where traditionally-male jobs are held up as the holy grail.
I now know enough business executives, tech professionals, and other prestigious jobs to understand how those jobs demand SO MUCH of a person--leaving limited time for family and community. Yet they are held on a pedastal b/c they are powerful, or earn a lot of money.
Meanwhile, the jobs related to caretaking--which are incredibly important--and community building, are looked down upon.
7
As a small child, all I wanted to do was read, and I started adult books when I was in the 2nd grade. I even read the encyclopedia when I didn't have anything else new, once I'd consumed all the books in my house.
I never quite fit with the other little kids of either sex. I liked science, and art, and would happily go out and identify trees and bugs and build dams in the creek or make clay pots. My Barbies were archaeologists, or construction workers, or zookeepers, or time travellers.
I'm in my 60s, now. I've learned to fit in (sort of ), and I can do all the gendered stuff when I want to, and sometimes it's fun to wear makeup.
What's really sad is that I have a male friend who loves makeup and girly clothing, but he can't wear it outside his home, ever. I have instructions, that if he is hospitalized or (god forbid) dies, I am to go to his house and clear out the makeup and dress up stuff that he can't allow his family to see.
7
I think there are a couple of different issues here. First, there's a difference between femininity and hyper-sexualization. Call me crazy, but I think lipstick, nail polish, and the like shouldn't be encouraged as anything more than an inside the house activity at age 6. My very make-up obsessed daughter was only allowed to play with it at home and not wear it to school until she was a high school freshman. As her mother, I didn't put this restriction on her because I'm a misogynist, I put it on her because I wanted her to focus on her character, her academics, her physical fitness, and accomplishments, not just her looks. I didn't want her to think she had to look a certain Nickelodeon/Disney Channel way just because she's a girl. If she later wanted to dress up/make up for herself and her own self-esteem, great. More power to her. But I wanted her to know she's more than what she projects on the outside. Second, speaking as a former tomboy, I can assure you my love of baseball, jeans, sneakers, and flannel shirts was not a rejection of femininity as much as it was a total lack of interest in being the cheerleader when I could be the player myself. In my day, being "girly" also equated to being a spectator, not a participant.
My girly, expert make-up artist daughter (now 21) is a rad snowboarder, slackliner, and extreme sport enthusiast, as well as a college student pursuing a male-dominated field. She will not be pigeon-holed. Good for her.
7
Yes, but it is sort of like Betsy DeVos telling us that we don't need to think about who gets punished in schools more. Right now the culture is so much in one direction (see the Miss Universe contestants, to get an idea about the overwhelming ideal of female beauty) that we probably need to focus more on letting tomboys be tomboys, than letting girly girls be girly.. They are doing that, in vast numbers, with the male of the species promoting that image and all the stuff that goes with it..You can't walk far in high heels, so lets let girls wear workboots as much as they want. Perhaps we need a Miss Universe contest for tomboys; otherwise, the world is overwhelming telling girls to be second citizens, girly girls, and it is to their detriment, for the most part.
7
I decided to give the movie version of "Sex in the City" a try on Netflix the other night. It opens with a voice-over of Carrie saying authoritatively, "Women come to New York for two reasons: love and labels. And not necessarily in that order." The "Sex in the City" era wasn't that long ago. Yet women want to know why we aren't taken seriously?
Maybe it's just the ways capitalism has subverted femininity, but over the years I've seen girly-girl qualities more and more associable with shallow, superficial, narcissistic and consumerist. Nothing I want to be.
4
Let kids be kids. Most little girls go thru a phase where they want everything girly girl. Typically around age 2-4 as they begin to understand and make meaning out of gender. It’s a phase.
Nancy is a heterosexual but with each passing year she is less interested in traditional female trappings and enjoys more and more an androgeous or male persona. Ha, as much as is reasonably possible with large breasts and wide hips which she appreciates only rarely. Sigh. Nancy and everyone still has a lot of work to do to see females as powerful.
1
This is so close to being correct. But there needs to be some maintenance of gender expression - most people feel very strongly and comfortably that they are either a man or a woman, and want to present as such. Most people are also naturally attracted to those of the opposite gender (not me, though!) with defined gender-specific or heightening characteristics; this is important to sexuality.
My point is that we absolutely do not need to "strip gendered associations from lipstick, dresses and glitter, soccer balls, sweatpants and short hair." It's fine for those kinds of aesthetic things to be gendered. We need to strip gendered associations with VALUES like confidence, strength, intelligence, competence, sympathy, creativity, weakness, and dependence.
1
One idea that the author surprisingly glosses over is when feminine standards of beauty of man-made for men's pleasure. That is why, to me, it can be difficult and upsetting to see our daughters and ourselves conforming, and taking our sense of self and freedom from styles and practices that have been associated with female oppression historically. When I talk to my almost 15 year old daughter about how low cut her shirts are or how a skirt is too short, she thinks I am anti-feminist and says that I am "slut shaming." What? It's hugely troublesome to me to see the huge number of high school girls combining high heels, short skirts, and low cut tops with rhetoric about female power and self-confidence. I don't buy it at all. They/we have internalized male standards so deeply that we're able to fool ourselves into thinking that they're our own.
16
You had me until you started discussing female characters in fiction who are valued because they're not feminine. It's a stretch, because you can find plenty of strong feminine characters. How about Reese Witherspoon in Legally Blonde? How about anything Melanie Griffith or Dolly Parton has ever done? In any case, screw social norms. Only when women start embracing the power of their feminine traits ALONG WITH the power of their masculinity will they have self confidence, which is the most powerful (and sexy) trait of all. How about teaching that- um, instead of lipstick stuff?
2
The cruelty heaped on non-conforming boys is immense. No girl is going to face such abuse for being "girlie". Except apparently from a parent trying to force them into another presentation.
Frankly - the whole management of daughters and sons in how to behave and present themselves to the world (outside of basic manners and consideration of others) seems more akin to the now appropriately reviled practice of forcing gays to try to be straight.
I worry a bit about the sexualization aspects for girls in the more-girl-than-girls-are culture (Disney World - I'm looking at you), but as far as I can tell that bus left the station long ago. Our best bet is to try ending the practice of genderizing ever last thing in our culture. Let people follow their wishes and enjoy a sense of fun that comes with playing with the masculine and feminine types. I think the author does a good job getting to that point.
Let children express themselves as they wish and stop the desire to control their personalities (and anybody that can tell me people are born without a personality is a person that never experienced having children.)
On a side note - genderizing everything hurts men in particular. Our lives are now down to choosing which crappy baggy pants to wear in three colors and the ability to maybe grow facial hair. Men live in a weirdly shrinking world for presentation without becoming endlessly scrutinized for sexual conformity. Check out an old magazine and you'll see it.
4
@Tim
I took a menswear history course. When I saw the gorgeous clothes that European upperclass men once wore, especially in the 17th through 19th centuries, the body-conscious fit, the colors, the textures, the ruffles, the laces, the silks, the velvets, I felt sorry for men today. Their choices are so limited.
5
When I was a kid in the late ‘50s this song on the radio depressed me:
The girl that I marry will have to be
As soft and as pink as a nursery....
A doll I can carry
The girl that I marry must be.
I swear this song was not a joke, but a serious declaration. I knew I would not grow up to be a doll most men could carry. I was already a husky little thing! So I lacked hope for a time. Thankfully I outgrew my despair. To this day I wish I were smaller and lighter.
I agree in principle with the author. But I still have a visceral reaction to little girls in pink frills. I never dressed my daughters that way because such clothing seemed silly to me, and I feared they would fall victim to softness and pinkness and dollness.
14
@CDT
When I was 10 or 11, was taken to a performance of "Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and Living in Paris." I was introduced to "The Bachelor's Song" which covers the same territory more slyly. It works because it handles the lovely fantasy of the perfect woman and home and the silliness of the bachelor equally well.
https://genius.com/Jacques-brel-bachelors-dance-lyrics
3
Bought my grandsons (preschoolers) an enormous doll house with furnishings and Barbies/GI Joes - all pre-loved. Yes, there is some "homemaking" going on but I've been amused by the large number of automobiles and excavators (didn't learn that term until the grandsons) that sleep in beds. I'm the grandmother that identified as male until in elementary school - and never encountered a sport I didn't love. But Barbies helped me identify with my feminine side after heavy outdoor roughhousing as a child. In life, I've assumed all maintenance tasks on home and car while the male of four decades plus can't even diagnose a loose power plug on his computer. Gender fluidity is SO much more fun!
3
As Joan Rivers might say to the PC crowd, "Oh, grow up. Can we talk?" The protagonist in "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" is girlie-girl as can be--no confusion about *her* gender, that's for sure. And I love her for it. She's also extremely liberated for someone in 1959. And I love her for it.
My goodness, is nobody else alarmed by this article?!? A six year old girl's embrace of "frilly dresses and long hair" confounds the writer to the point that she isn't quite sure what to do about it?? What is going on in 2018 America when we have to explain or defend or grapple with a little girl's affinity for girlie things like (brace yourself) princess paraphernalia??
7
Just try taking a pink toy off most toddler girls. Just try and tell me how that goes. Let the girlie girls be themselves.
3
Sounds like this writer needs new, less judge-y friends.
5
Sheesh. I’m a lefty liberal and I say give the kid a Barbie and stop judging her.
10
What’s the matter?
The matter is that people have a problem with kids developing their own per-sonalities instead of becoming the pretty little toys you want to mold them in-to.
So the kid likes X, and you resent X.
So what. Let her have X.
It’s not like she’s asking for drugs, she’s asking for a dress.
People should stop getting mad because their children don’t share their hate for certain things.
5
@AutumnLeaf
People are also concerned by the omnipresence of sexist and capitalist cultural attitudes and the rapidity with which their kids absorb it.
3
For goodness' sake, the notion that anyone, and particularly anyone at the Times, is maligning *femininity* is ludicrous.
The maligning that goes on is of masculinity, at least any masculinity that does not partake heavily of gender-fluid, transgender or gay sensibilities. What is usually referred to as traditional masculinity is now viewed as "toxic", without nuance. And the Times, with its columnists, keeps beating the drum, day after day.
3
Yet more instruction on what my personal preferences must be else I be labelled sexist, etc. My personal sexist preference is for woman who can hike, who enjoy some kind of sport or exercise, who can wear jeans with or without makeup, wears skirts and dresses as per her mood. Although I do not enjoy cleaning, I do it, I am neutral about doing laundry, I enjoy cooking, I cared for my son more than 50% and those who can (men and women) do anything (physics, banking, art, teaching, economics, etc., etc.) should not be hindered for anything but inability.
But my sexist nature is exposed because I find that those (men or women) who are super involved in makeup, sequins, high heels, "beauty", fashion, gossip, etc., are inevitably shallow, with little to contribute to a whole lot.
But .. personal preference aside - they have the right to it all. And I have the right to gag at it.
What to do? I also prefer coffee ice cream to chocolate, vanilla to pistachio, Levis to designer brands, and so on and so forth. Except for Carter's 2nd run, I have voted Democrat all my life but feel that the border is ours, not to be crossed without formal permission, etc.
Make the US great again - vote Donald Out !
And stop the knee-jerk, pseudo-liberal, clap-trap.
1
Now, I didn't realize that girly girls are what people would call "feminine."
The few obvious "girly girls" I came across in my dozens of years of teaching seemed more like femme fatale wannabes.
Most middle school girls are refreshingly just kids.
(Oh, yikes. I guess I have just demeaned femme fatales. My apologies to Mata Hari.)
3
Hey permissive mom. You're going to have a very difficult time when she turns 13 if you don't shape yourself up first.
Be the mom. Discipline as well as guideance.
3
Yes! Go Rosie the Riveter! Move on from the Shrinking Violet! Run that Tough Mudder race!
But not too much, or it’s sexist.
Please.
And by the way, we don’t let our prepubescent daughter wear makeup because children shouldn’t have sex appeal, not femininity. We also ask her to wear pants to a gymnasium birthday party because they’re more practical and we don’t want anyone to her her underwear when she does a cartwheel.
2
Girls outperform boys in almost every metric. Boys are in crisis!
So reading yet another "Should I let my little girl" play with Barbie, be a Disney Princess, wear pink, etc. is disturbing because obviously, little girls are thriving whether or not they wear lipstick.
This then is just your problem and will do no real damage to your daughter. And yes, it is a liberal fret: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/real-men-dont-write-blogs/201812/boys-are-in-trouble
1
Make-up is as sad in its own way as the burka is in its. Robust, energetic health is the only honestly attractive look for persons of any gender.
2
@Green Tea - So true. When someone looks good, what you are often subliminally noticing is that they look happy and healthy.
@Green Tea
Makeup is a choice, but health alone does not guarantee that you will look attractive. Some people have naturally rosy cheeks and glowing skin, some people are naturally sallow, or have oily skin.
1
So, let me get this straight: your daughter, not your son, has an "affinity for the traditional trappings of femininity, like frilly dresses and long hair"......and you have a problem with that?? And you are only now confronting the possibility that "lefty liberal culture" has a problem?? My goodness.
By the way, like millions of other girls, my daughter played with Barbies and now she competes fiercely on her basketball and softball teams. Oh yeah, and she loves makeup.
4
Davis is in no position to say what’s sexist or not..
I have a problem with the headline and premise of the opinion article. It should be either way. If you like girlie girls and hate tomboys, it’s also sexist. Just let children find their own way.
1
Who says the definition of feminine is lipstick, glitter, and stuff?
5
The word "tomboy" is wildly sexist. Why is it still in use?
Another op-ed with "we must" commandments. Who is the "we" that the author assumes is subject to her wishes? It seems that her self-confessed "culture of lefty liberals" yields a clue, and her mention of third wave feminism is another. Can it be that it's only in her bubble (she lives in Brooklyn) that there's a problem?
For the rest of us, life goes on. I don't have to worry if either of my two millennial daughters were damaged by being, one a tomboy and the other a girlie.
2
With everything going on in the world, THIS is what keeps you up and night? No wonder the right thinks we are a bunch of wacko's.
4
Nothing new here..over along.
Honestly, we have lost our collective minds about how far people are taking all of this. What matters more than anyone's gender or girlishness or tomboy traits or what they play with or how they dress is how they ACT - how we all BEHAVE - toward each other, toward ourselves and toward anyone we encounter.
I was viciously attacked not too long ago because I mistakenly forgot to refer to Caitlin Marie Jenner, who I do not know, as a she. As if my saying that was some kind of deliberate slur. It was a MISTAKE.
Also, let's not forget that many, many women use their sexuality and express it in the ways that they dress and adorn themselves with makeup, jewelry, high heels for all kinds of reasons that benefit them.
Be kind whenever possible. That's all that matters.
4
With my own feminine daughter, I have found that some components of femininity stand to hold her back from her own goals. She has "scientist" as a potential career that she may want to pursue. At the same time her and a friend are giggling at the back of the classroom about how long it takes them to complete their labs. The "girls are bad at math and science" is contagious. A similar dynamic appears in sports for my daughter. This all sits at a subconscious level with her until pointed out. I'm in favour of an anti-femininity movement in hopes of a new definition.
4
I grew up with four female cousins, daughters of a feminist mother, back when keeping her "maiden" name was considered shocking. She refused to allow her daughters the traditional feminine trappings or to register them in "girlie" activities such as ballet. I know that at least two of my cousins resent this interference.
My sons have never really expressed much interest in "girls toys", but we haven't encouraged them either. We have been quicker to register them in hockey than in dance, but our first choice would have been skiing. We've tried to follow their lead as much as possible.
Ultimately, our goal is to assist our children in their development, not to dictate it. They'll never be free of our biases, but we can at least be aware of them. One of my proudest moments as a new father was leaving the house with a child or two dressed in a way only a toddler would choose to dress. I was proud to allow them to express themselves and proud that their independence would seem obvious.
Your situation is more fraught given the gender roles that you might be perceived of supporting. But that is your concern, not your daughter's. Be proud of who she is, and who you are encouraging her to be.
2
I'm trying to wrap my head around this:
You think it's not okay for a girl to want traditionally feminine trappings such as frilly dresses and pink , while playing with Barbie. You however succumb to your daughter's wish to wear lipstick at the age of 6.
Ok. Now I know I'm dated.
1. You are darn right it's an overcorrection to not allow your daughter's choice of toys or clothes. I cannot even begin to list how many ways this is wrong, the most prominent though being that you are repeating history: what's the difference between you and the previous generations who were equally dogmatic? Don't impose your body politics onto your child. She will hate you for it now, and will remember it in the future.
2. It's not a question of whether your daughter aims to express her sexuality, which I strongly doubt; it is how others who view her might sexualize her ---a la Jon Benet Ramsey. It is not quite appropriate for a child to wear makeup in public, is it?
5
Just for the record: i don't care one way or the other. I love my daughter when she's replicating the latest styles or when she's lounging at the mall in sweatpants and an oversized hoodie.
I do agree that comments such as 'girlie', or 'runs like a girl' etc. are clearly demeaning to women or what it means to be a girl/woman/feminine.
But when it comes to how some girls/women view the notion of what it means to be a girl/woman... how a girl/woman should portray and adorn herself for the outside world...what it means to 'be' pretty.... this is where the problem lies.
Many of us don't take issue with girls/women gravitating towards certain types of dress... to certain colors... to wearing their hair/makeup a certain way. However, there's no denying that many 'ideals' are created by the cosmetics/cosmetic surgery industries. These 'ideals' are then internalized by other girls/women, and then thrown right back out into society as being the expected norm.... or the barometer by which women judge themselves and other women.
It's obviously a very fine line.... how to know when we ourselves (or other women) are behaving or adorning ourselves in such a way, out of a natural, unbiased desire vs out of a subconscious self-imposed expectation of how we should be.
I's best when we view makeup as adornment, much as we would a favorite piece of clothing or jewelry. But the minute women think they look 'ugly' without makeup, can't go out the door without it, that is when we know we have a problem. Consider how many 'beauty' products market themselves by employing negative terms, which plant the idea that women's faces are full of things that need 'correcting'. (?!)
3
'Appropriate' is often mentioned in the comments as if there is a Universally Acknowledged Appearance Standard, akin to wearing black tie in the afternoon, white shoes in October, and bright colors in the week following the death of a close family member.
Where may I find this updated Emily Post definition?
Thanks for this column. I am a woman and a boomer and definitely absorbed and adopted the misogyny that was so intense in the 60s and 70s. I also adopted feminism and found the rejection of girly trappings very freeing. Certainly the rigid roles that both sexes were prescribed in those days required strong reaction and hating pink felt healthy. But I recognize the misogyny it it. Women's stuff was boring and stupid. Men's stuff was important and exciting. The residue of this that you describe in your column needs more attention, discussion, and correction. I'm still hopeful that we can learn to have a healthy society with healthy attitudes about gender, eventually.
Could you please avoid the use of “totem pole” and perhaps use a more neutral term such as ladder?
1
Easy. Boys and girls should each get to as 'masculine', 'feminine', or 'androgynous' as they like, as suits them. Why not?
1
I'm the first one to criticize gendered toys that are based in harmful stereotypes, but I think we've overcorrected a bit. I'm tired of hearing parents express pride when their daughters are boyish and disappointment when they're too girly. I don't like the implicitly sexist value judgment it represents, which is that at the end of the day, being masculine or "neutral" is better than being feminine. It's not bad to be feminine, just as it's not better to be masculine.
6
The PC Police needs to make up its mind. Why call a kid a Tomboy OR gender-nonconforming? The true feminist position should be that a girl is a girl whether she’s into sports or Barbie’s.
3
This is simpler than it sounds -- don't think about whether a kid's behavior is gender-conforming or not. Think about whether it's safe, healthy, respectful -- and then respond to it. Kid is super-interested in sports and never wants to wear a dress? Make sure she's not injuring herself from over-practice. Kid is super-interested in clothes and appearance? Make sure she's not inviting sexual predators or harming her skin. That's it.
7
Strong points throughout this piece - but I think leading with the make-up example loses a lot of readers out the gate. Make-up IS sexualizing and many (myself included) would recoil at seeing a 6yo wearing lipstick BECAUSE it is sexualizing. I'm glad the writer brought it back at the end - but I wouldn't have included that as an example.
There are many male make-up artist bloggers now who are total experts/professionals in the field. Sure, it's still more of a feminine tradition but the world *is* changing ... For the better, let's all hope.
3
@beechew
As a kindergarten teacher I must say that world needs fewer "scolds" who think they should pontificate on what is correct for children, or anyone else for that matter, and
encouragement of freedom to express the many sides all of us have. Children call this "play". More adults should try it. As I say many times a week "you don't have to worry about anyone but yourself."
6
Thank you for this article! I drives me nuts that gender equality somehow morphed into "girlie is bad, boyish is good."
We celebrate teaching girls to play sports and play with trucks or Legos, and lament playing with dolls. There's room for both!
My girls love sparkly dresses, nail polish, dolls, and all things princess. They also love their toy trucks, Legos, and Thomas the Train clothes.
What we should be striving for is exposing kids to a variety of toys, books, clothes, and then supporting them in their choices. We go wrong when we FORCE girl stuff on girls, boy stuff on boys. But if they voluntarily choose it, and we reject their choices, then we're telling them that their true wants and desires are bad.
5
These concerns about femininity seem a bit too much about appearances, less about experiences. What concerns me as the parent of daughters is that they not fall into the trap of femininity that dictates their behavior and their possibilities. A professional person exudes confidence and competence, inspires trust and reliability, not by makeup and hairspray, but by knowledge and ability, neither of which have anything to do with cosmetics, stilettos, or hemlines. Women who spend an hour or more on hair and makeup before work are simply too focused on things that don't or shouldn't matter. The anti-cosmetics movement by South Korean women will free a lot of women there, but the American cosmetics industry makes too much money off of women's insecurities to ever let them go.
3
I'm a feminist, but I love poufy skirts and crinolines and high heels. Who cares? A little self-reflection is good, but honestly, talk about first-world problems. Most of the world can't afford to dwell on the semantic difference between "tomboy" and "gender-nonconforming." How nice that we have the luxury of having these earnest discussions instead of just trying to survive.
8
@Anonymous
Because we have the luxury of being able to do more than just survive is why we discuss these things. We can also care about the people in less-fortunate parts of the globe.
1
I was told that makeup was for grownups. I snuck into my mom's makeup at age 10, but never would have worn it out of the house. I was not allowed to wear makeup of any sort until I was 13 -- (except cherry chapstick, which I did use a lot of). It was a matter of it being age-appropriate, not whether it was feminist either way.
I still think that makeup is inappropriate for a kid to wear out of the house until they are 10 or older.
5
Long before her time, family members described my grandmother as being "so masculine," just because she was opinionated, liked to have things done her way, and built her own house.
She also cooked, sewed, ran a business styling hair, took care of animals, and worked on her own car which she lovingly referred to as her "machine." I don't think I ever saw her wearing pants - the perception of masculinity was based solely on her commanding presence, and her ability to fix a sink, wield a hammer, and change her own oil. Somehow the fact that she could also tailor a dress or a suit from scratch, bake a cake, and give a hair cut and permanent wave to a paying customer didn't seem to tip the balance.
To this day I love the kids who insist on wearing a tutu every day - especially if it's over blue jeans and kid sized combat boots. Or the ones who have Barbies but improvise Viking costumes for her and have her go on mystical sea voyages on a ship made out of a wooden salad bowl with a dish rag for a sail. I didn't have a tutu but I did play Viking Barbie when I was a child. I sewed her clothes myself - a skill I learned from my grandmother.
The saddest thing I see in contemporary society is the way femininity has been devalued. Femininity isn't lipstick or heels. It's creativity. It's not defined by, but often includes bearing and taking care of children - endeavor that is increasingly seen as far less important and less satisfying than paid work.
4
My daughter, a mother of two girls and a grown man, figured it out on the fly. The boy is a typical masculine male and on his own now. Her girls (17 and 14) are quite opposite each other in one way. The older one has always been a "tomboy", while the younger one has always been interested in the feminine side. My daughter never tried to steer either one way or the other, just let them be themselves. My daughter growing up was fun mix of tomboy (as an archaeologist I took her to the field frequently and she thrived), and feminine. Her Barbie went to the field too and she carried it by the hair and it gained an interesting straight up hairdo. Her daughters, so different in one way, are best friends, and both are lacrosse stars in high school, the older one rated in the top 10 for her age group. Maybe my family's situation is different than others, but by my daughter not "choosing" for her two daughters, they are growing up to be themselves, successful, and loving each other with the differences. I'm a proud father and grandfather, and a lucky man.
4
Ok, I'm 69, so not of this parenting generation. That said I was pulled up short by the statement that the culture would now call a "Tomboy" "gender non-conforming." What nonsense! While I accept the right of adults to use such language, if they choose, the tag seems idiotic on a child. Being a girl looks lots of ways, but that child can still be a girl rather than a boy. As a kid, I climbed trees as a kid, hung by my knees and was not what is called a "girlie girl." However, I also liked dresses when I wore them and played with dolls. As an adult I can be found far more often in jeans than in anything else. I currently do not own a skirt or dress - zip, zero, nada. That said, I still consider myself to be a woman - this is just what womanhood looks like on me.
As to make-up - she's just 6 years old! What 6 year old wears makeup other than for play at home or at the house of a playmate. IMHO in general her wearing makeup out in public should not even be a question (though I see nothing wrong with her having a smear on in the incident described).
5
I'm from the same generation as you. When I was a little girl the closest I came to make up was a tiny dab of red nail polish which my mothe would paint on one or two of my nails so I could "pretend." Make up was forbidden, except for an on stage school play. It was for grown ups only, like a glass of wine with Sunday dinner. I was surprised that make up is even an issue for little girls.
3
Lipstick is a sexual queue, while a baseball mitt is not. Lipstick and nail polish are the equivalent of tight shorts for boys, and both are not acceptable. Femininity is not the same as female sexuality projected on a child. This author is so lost.
5
You write:
"...liberals’ hand-wringing over girlie girls could be an overcorrection, a backfired strain of third-wave feminism"
Astounding.
A problem of female existence that isn't the fault of MEN and our ten-thousand-year-old Patriarchy.
4
Aaaand we just came full circle
26
@Sf
not really. girls and women- not to mention boys and men have been shamed for anything and everything associated with concepts of femininity at all points of the circle.
Eg. ever heard, "stop being such a girl!" Yes? And, "stop being such a boy!" Not so much.
As a sister to a tomb boy and three brothers, growing up the 70's- I was the wooorst, especially during puberty when my boobs were not hidden under baggy sweatshirts and I liked boys and cared about my hair and liked to talk (gift of gab= so girly).
6
@Maria - "Ever heard stop being such a boy?" Yes, I hear it every time I hear the ridiculous term "toxic masculinity." There is nothing "masculine" about rage and lack of self control. I see that behavior in women as frequently as I see it in men.
1
@Maria
"stop being such a boy! Not so much."
Seriously?
There is a whole class of phrases that express precisely that and most of them contain the words 'dude' or 'bro' and are cultivated and expressed by the distaff side of humanity.
Thank you!
1
Ms. Davis' view and the fact that the NYT has given her space to express them as rational thought both give me pause about the future. Fortunately, I'm 65 and will not have to experience the fallout from this mutant strain of parenting.
3
My sex does not determine whether I 'should' be feminine or not, or how I should feel about it.
Saying I'm sexist for disliking femininity, feels oppressive 'womansplaining'. It's not helpful, and I really don't care.
2
Denigration of both masculinity and femininity in favor of egalitarian androgyny has been an underlying staple of liberal politics for half a century. This fundamental bias has done more to hurt the liberal political movement than anything else. Most people don't like it. It hits them on a gut level. They think, "these people don't appreciate men"... "they don't appreciate mothers."
If the left wants to point out the power problems that often arise from expressions of masculinity and femininity, good for them. If they want to shame these biological expressions of human personality out of existence, then they're doomed to failure.
38
@BarrowK you've contradicted yourself. If an expression is "biological," it cannot be removed from existence. Masculinity and femininity are SOCIAL expressions. There is nothing biologically feminine about lipstick or long hair or dresses. And we should engage with those expressions critically while giving people space to explore gendered expression.
8
@BarrowK
Thank you very much for this comment. I'm so sick of the Times pointing out this micro-aggression or that microaggression (as if micro-aggressions were actually a thing). If I could get the handful columnists who say intelligent things without it, I'd have ended my subscription LONG ago.
2
@Connor
Exactly, if it's biological it can't be removed. You've trotted out the core intellectual argument for leftist androgyny - that gender is purely a social construct. That's dead wrong. Almost no serious social scientist argues the blank slate theory anymore. Only ideologues do. Ask a LGBT person whether their gender identity is social or biological. Chances are they will acknowledge that it was not a choice. The relative distribution of testosterone, estrogen and other neurochemicals are distributed during the gestation process. We're all born with proclivities on the masculine-feminine continuum.
4
telling someone they can have preferences in liking one thing over another (even if its tomboys vs girly girls) is bullying. People like different things and sometimes you get left out. THAT is the real lesson that folks/kids should learn... and being left out doesn't mean you are less of a person.
@ray i meant to say [ can't have ] not [ can ]. TIL I learned you can't edit comments after they post.
The question of make-up isn't a question of femininity but of maturity, just like "play" weapons for boys. They can make believe all they want, but don't encourage it. A 6 yr old girl (or boy) encouraged to look like an adult woman is cringeworthy. So are plastic replica killing machines for boys (or girls). If a boy wants to wear a dress, or a girl wants to be batman, so be it.
My 12 yr old stepdaughter loves makeup and is allowed to wear a little, but she looks like she's 17 even without it, so she's already dealing with all of that-- she needs guidance, not capitulation to her every need. But I find it often appalling that, with all of our sophistication, we have trouble knowing what is appropriate in the context of our culture.
Letting a six year old wear makeup is insane. Why not a tattoo? An I-phone? A pierced tongue? Kids also need to understand the word "No." That's part of growing up.
5
I have a 6 year old daughter, and I would never allow her to wear makeup at this age, but it has nothing to do with maligning femininity. She wouldn't be allowed to wear it for the same reason she wouldn't be allowed to wear very revealing clothing - because even though that appearance may be totally innocent and free from the connotation of sexual appeal for the child, it's not free from that for older people who may then look at her that way. Of course, some sick people still might do that absent makeup or revealing clothing, but part of protecting her as a parent is doing what I can to shield her from that. If other parents feel differently and make different decisions for their kids, that is totally fine, but I don't appreciate being labeled a femininity-hater just because I don't let my young child use things intended for adults.
1
Parenting "Styles", almost a pun as the article is centered on appearances.
There's a time and a place for every thing in life. Perhaps discussion is the key:
"Darling why do you want to wear lipstick?"
" Lipstick is lovely but your lips are not fully grown as of yet, once they are of course wearing lipstick is wonderful!"
There's a strong element in the article of "Oh dear! what ever shall I do with my little one!"
I'm more likely to give a side eye to the parent who brings a child to a formal event, wedding, even funerals, looking as if the child rolled out of bed.
Cue clueless parent:" I just can't get them out of shorts, sweat pants and a t-shirt!"
Children want leadership not cohorts, they want to engage therefore engage not defer the difficult conversations.
The bottom line, is that first one has to establish the ontological definition of "femininity" -- and no one has -- because no one can. There will be no agreement. The concepts of "masculinity" vs. "femininity" are culture and time-specific. And in our current society, both are fraught with stereotypes. Any anthropologist will tell you that in cultures around the world and throughout time, sex roles were specific to ensuring survival of the species (centered on obtaining food and ensuring procreation), whereas "gender" roles for men and women differed markedly from society to society. "Gender roles" are about *power*. So the problem everyone is grappling with here, is the lack of consensus on what constitutes "masculine" vs. "feminine" behavior.
What disturbs most everyone about the behavior ascribed to "femininity"--and the Elephant in the Room to Which No One Gives Voice --is that really, in our current era and society, the behavior people persist in labeling as an expression of "femininity"--frilly clothes, make-up, high heels as early as at age six--"reads" as an expression of *NARCISSISM*--an over concern with appearance and wanting to "look attractive" in order to *get attention*. Its corollary is that it represents a form of passive aggressive behavior aimed at securing power (attractiveness), which in later years, "reads" as--seduction. That may be why such behavior in little girls makes people uneasy, and why such behavior is derogated in the first place.
1
What strikes me here is Serrano's self-abnegation as a parent. Apparently, it hasn't occurred to her that part of parenting is to teach your children what you think is right, rather than allowing them to do what they want. Whether or not you agree with Serrano on where virtue lies in the girlie/tomboy contrast, there is something disturbing in her unwillingness to tell her daughter "no, that's wrong."
What you might consider....
A young person that choses make-up as their form of self-expression is falling into the trap that APPEARANCE is what matters. A young person that eschews the make-up and heels for the basketball, soccer cleats or a hammer, learns that their abilities and what they can DO is what matters. Is this not an important difference to consider and to encourage? Can one learn to value actions and accomplishments at the same time as they value appearances? Maybe....but given this society's continued laser-focus on appearances, I think that the deck is stacked.
My 13 year old is into 'the make-up'. I detest it. I've bitten my tongue so far, 'cause her mom has asked me to just go with it. But, in the near future, I will explain to her the origin of make-up. And what rouge and lipstick are meant to mirror relative to physiology. (Note to self: prepare photos of the swollen red buttocks of female baboons for demonstration purposes). I'll explain the role of high heels - those detestable and ridiculous torture instruments that are pathetic excuses for footwear - and which aspect of a human they are meant to show the world.
I hope I'll be able to do so in such a way that she continues to understand that whatever she decides to be - it's her life and her decision. I also hope I've done a good enough job to emphasize that character and intelligence and ability and compassion are all that really matter in a human being.
2
"Like Tomboys and Hate Girlie Girls? That’s Sexist.
We need to stop maligning femininity."
True, as is the opposite. To malign femininity--or masculinity--is indeed sexist. To hate Tomboys --or rough-and-tumble boys, or gentle boys, or gentle girls--is sexist.
Our boys commit suicide 4 times as often as our girls. Our boys get only 40% of college degrees, are thrown out of school--and into jail--far more often than our girls. They drop out more, and force-fed Ritalin more.
Our boys need help, and are just as deserving of it as our girls. they are ALL our kids.
1
"While some scholars have argued that masculine women are lowest on the social totem pole, "
I'd be interested to know what the reference is for this.
Certainly, a little girl should be able to pursue any interest or style she wants. Exploration like this helps little humans discover themselves. We might want to consider, however, that these trappings -- make up, excessive interest in fashion, being dainty -- are not feminine, they're false femininity. To dislike them doesn't necessarily paint femininity as negative. It might be more useful to see it as a rejection of the superficial. I'd say don't worry if your little girls and boys like Barbies and princesses and high heels and lipstick. Let them have their fun, but hopefully teach them that those things don't define them.
I loved my Barbies and I also loved my Lincoln logs. I pretty much stayed in the middle lane. Neither a girlie girl or overly boyish. My interests were more male oriented, and at age 60 I still love it when I surprise a man with my knowledge of a subject that most women wouldn’t be interested in. What guided me the most was the ability to be independent and not be beholden to anyone and under their control. Male or female, self reliance is a necessity
52
@Melissa Myer me too! I loved my Barbie doll, and used to put her in the toy Tonka truck and drive it around in the sand. She also spend time around my Lincoln logs, along with the pet hamster. My sister and I were gifted both boy and girl toys. We built treehouses, played with dolls and experienced it all. Yes to self reliance!
16
@Melissa Myer
"I still love it when I surprise a man with my knowledge of a subject that most women wouldn’t be interested in."
Ah, the myth of being special, the one female who can display knowledge of an "arcane" male interest, dazzling him!
I'm not criticizing you for your interests, but don't you see that your myth of being special is just another aspect of the game that women are forced to play? There should be no male interests or female interests, only areas that PEOPLE are attracted to.
8
Gender identity has become such a cottage industry and fixation these days. So much worry, nuance, and anxiety over where exactly in the gender spectrum each individual falls and the various accouterments that are supposedly aligned with each variation. Even those of us tolerant of a 'to each his/her own' attitude find this minutia pretty eye-rolling tedious.
4
I admit to having trouble with this article because I don't understand why this well-informed writer/parent is having such a problem. Children, from toddlers on up, understand when you explain to them how you feel about labels and offer them a chance to agree or disagree.
My family is fiercely feminist and my great-nephew is a fiend for trucks and what others call "boy toys". That doesn't mean his values are not based on respect for each person and questioning what is confusing and/or mass-marketed. We talk about emotions, monster trucks and being fair.
The next step in our crawl to equality is accepting what each child chooses and offering explanations of what other choices exist. Then we go on and enjoy each individual and ensure that each one is free to be who they are without harming others.
Forty years ago when my daughter was born, I tried to be gender-neutral in selecting toys and clothes for her. She only watched Sesame Street. Yet her favorite color was pink and she chose to wear dresses and lacy tights and play with dolls. The overalls and trucks I bought her, she left untouched. She was feisty though and elbowed her way through the boys with her pink backpack in tow. Go figure. To each his/her own.
6
There is a lot unpack here, but I think the thing that sticks out most is the lipstick. We have a firm, no-makeup policy for our 6 year old, simply due to age. It's a lot like tackle football. Until they can truly understand what's going on, there are certain things kids should not engage in.
Lipstick, plain and simply, is for looking pretty (though that is obviously in the eye of the beholder), or perhaps better said as "prettier than normal" (again, as a guy that enjoys to look at my wife without makeup, I disagree with that position). Why would they want to do that? Adults know the voluminous answers to that question: sexual appeal, power, social standing, etc. Those are questions I prefer to ease my kids into, at a later age.
2
I recognized very early that boys had many privileges in my family and in society. They could play with less supervision, wear pants and get dirty, strive to compete and win.
As a girl I had to stay close to home, wear dresses, stay clean and was told not to beat the boys in competition or no-one would like me.
Imagine how cathartic it was for me to be a lawyer in the 70's and be paid to compete and win!
7
I agree with the author that there's too much demonization of traditionally feminine choices for children. But the main point is that kids should be free to explore their identity in whatever way they choose, and not be criticized for that. My own daughter was very "girly," obsessed with Disney princesses and ballerinas (as were about 90% of the girls in her preschool) from about 3-6, then was a "tomboy" from about 7-12, then gradually eased into being more traditionally feminine in her clothing choices. All of it seemed to be about finding her sense of herself, and the more supportive parents can be of that, the better.
1
For the past few years, in my little corner of the world we are constantly being assured that gender does not matter, is a false binary, an antiquated notion, etc. And while I get the rhetoric, I generally find the opposite to be true. If it didn't matter, then no one would really care either way, and by that I mean, people wouldn't be all that worried about either their own gender or anyone else's. Of course, that is not the case. It has tremendous importance to (most) people, starting with their own vision and understanding of themselves. It seems pretty evident that a lot of young children have a strong desire to explore their identity in this regard, which for many involves exaggerating traditional looks and preferences. Good for this author in allowing her daughter a healthy interest in things pink. (Makeup seems more like an age appropriate issue rather than a one of sexualization, but I concede some intertwining.) What we ought to be grateful for in this world is that, if a child does want to explore a gender identity beyond the standard/traditional one, it is much more accepted. People feeling comfortable in their own skin? Check. People feeling comfortable in traditional or non traditional expressions of gender? Also check.
3
The "gender doesn't matter" crowd drives me crazy. So presumptuous. Come to any high school and see if gender doesn't matter. Boys with the boys; girls with the girls...generally by choice.
3
I was just in the hospital (Duke) and the Physical Therapist told me I could conserve energy by sitting to prepare foods for cooking and also how to conserve energy when doing laundry, nothing else was mentioned. Man was I insulted. Do you think the male patients are told the same thing? What year is this?
1
What did you indicate your profession was when you went in to the hospital?
I will never stop trying to achieve the world 2 of my favorite mentors would talk about. Separated by years meeting them (not to mention one being a Buddhist monk the other a Lakota woman), they both said something similar:
They both longed for a world where people respected one another BECAUSE of their differences, not tolerated one another IN SPITE of them.
All of us, all women, all men, have a little feminine and masculine in varying amounts. What matters in the end is how we treat one another. If we treat each other with courtesy and respect, who cares what ratio of both are in us? If we all strive to make the world a better place and not causing harm, who could possibly feel justified to judge whether or not we're living 'correctly'?
For the author, each of her daughters is unique - that in itself is the best thing (indeed the only thing) that matters. If they're both working to make the world better and not causing any harm, who would care if they're more feminine or masculine?
2
The author kind of breezed by the issue of sexualizing young girls with make-up and abbreviated clothing.
While dressing up is fun, attracting the attention of unstable males by being "attractive" in age inappropriate ways is dangerous. Of course, its not the fault of the child, but still the parents need to be protective. Sad, but true.
Girls don't necessarily know that not all attention is safe.But at some point, it needs to be explained. Otherwise, they are more vulnerable than average. And average is already vulnerable.
3
In case anyone thinks that frilly dresses and makeup applied with a trowel equal passive and traditionally feminine, I recommend watching the documentary The Staircase on Netflix. The female Assistant DA dresses and makes herself up in almost a parody of the stereotypical Southern woman. But she comes across not as soft, but as the hardest and meanest and, yes, most masculine of women in her demeanor. She is the attack dog (sorry can't use the appropriate word here) of the prosecution. You would not want to meet her in a dark alley. The baby faced male DA with the helmet hair, pressed suit and preternaturally calm demeanor of a fundamentalist mega church preacher comes across as her exact opposite. When I first began watching it, I marveled at what I thought was the costuming, speech and choice of actors. But it's not fiction; these are the actual players in a real trial.
1
How about modeling kindness and positive values for them, encouraging their intellect, and offering literature, fine art and music to them. Forget lipstick and baseball gloves as measures of a child.
5
So, your friend at the library. If you had been with your six year-old son, and he had been wearing lipstick, would she have been cool with his gender exploration?
Are things getting nutty or I am just getting old?
And everything isn't gender related trappings. Lipstick is generally considered an adult trapping in our culture. (Yes, thirteen year-olds are at least adolescent on there way to adult.) But ball mitts are not adult trappings, they are part of childhood. Maybe the objection could be raised, not about gender, but about childhood.
6
I am a feminine feminist and there never was a conflict in the two notions in my mind. I do see it in others. My hobby is sewing—certainly considered feminine but it also requires both technical skill and creativity.
I taught both my sons and my daughter basic sewing skills and all enjoyed making an occasional bean bag toy or stuffed animal until some of my daughter’s friends started commenting that sewing was “girlie.” Suddenly she didn’t want to sew anymore, though her brothers continued to learn to sew simple pj pants and stuff like that.
That was fine, I wouldn’t force any of my kids to do any activity they did not want to.
But when my daughter was angry with me she’d tell me, with disdain, that I was too girlie because I sewed and wore dresses.
I am sure if my hobby was woodworking she would never have heard such comments from her friends. I doubt any of the girls were ever directly told by an adult “sewing and wearing dresses are bad because they are feminine” but they picked up on the message somehow by age 10.
1
Thanks so much for this article. I so appreciate the Times telling me whether I'm sexist or racist or whatever. I read the Times for its unceasing daily coverage of women's this and transgender that. Outrage coverage is, after all, what it's all about these days.
Not!
2
Perhaps you're spending time with the wrong people. First, enough with the labeling - a 6 year old doesn't need to be called a 'tomboy', nor does she need to be labeled 'gender non conforming'. She is who she is. Period.
Second, I am a woman who you would have called a tomboy - as a kid, I despised that label. I was me, I was a girl, I liked to play in ways that were more associated with boys than girls. The vast majority of people in my life, including my parents, didn't see a need to label me. That was in the 60s.
I'm not sure what woman you're spending time with who criticize a stereotypically feminine child. Who cares? And who are you to claim that women who are 'feminists' are guilty of having 'unexamined' opinions. Again, perhaps you're spending time with the wrong people.
Finally, it might be that some people don't think a 6 year old needs to be wearing makeup (unrelated to views on feminism). But you're her mother, so do what you want. Just stop complaining about it.
3
I pity today’s baby’s & toddlers. This generation of parents will just raise them to be perpetually confused souls.
5
I just have always wanted my girls to be comfortable in their own skin.
1
We have become a nation of judges. We judge you if you're gay, we judge you if you're not. We judge you if you are white, we judge you if you are black. The old politicians have aged out, the young ones are wacky and inexperienced. You are weak if you need a safe space and a bully if you dont. Calling someone Sexist is just a PC way of name calling, bullying and being judgemental. When did we become so perfect that every little aspect of our imperfect selves needs to be scrutinized and cleansed by the glaring light of other peoples consciences? There is no such thing as "a proper feminist". Let her be six years old and enjoy seeing her discover who she is for herself. Give her a range of options and possibilities and let her choose. And whatever you do, do NOT judge her choices. Embrace them. When she is old enough that she needs to take care of you in your old age, hope she does exactly the same for you.
1
Let people be what they want to be. Women can be proud of who they are.There are so many great women scientists , mathematicians, explorers and so on. My favorite person is Emmy Noether, one of the worlds greatest mathematicians
Here's a gender neutral reason not to buy lipstick for a six year old. Its plain old tacky and not age appropriate.
8
A week ago, Kevin Hart was in the headlines for tweeting, “If my son comes home and tries to play with my daughter’s doll house I’m going to break it over his head and say in my voice, ‘Stop, that’s gay.’”
Instead of an opinion piece exploring the way in which boys and men are punished—literally threatened with violence—for displaying conventionally feminine interests, we get Ms. Davis telling us the REAL victims are “girlie girls”... along with a totally unsubstantiated claim about the “preference for trans men over trans women,” whatever that means.
1
While every option must be available for girls and women, by definition, being a man requires a high level of conformity. Women can decide to serve in the military or not while men have an obligation to serve. Women can decide to be nurses or construction workers or any job in between while there are a slew of jobs where men do not belong. It’s only natural to treat women with high level of respect, regardless of their status in life since they’ve earned it after a millennium of being sidelined, without extending the same consideration to men. Two years ago, my female boss (Ivy educated company President and granddaughter of the founder) grabbed me by the genitals and brought me to my knees in a meeting to “see if I had a pair” in regards to the fact that I allowed someone (a man) to quit without threats of assault. The fact is that would be a completely off limits act of the target had been a woman. That’s just the way it is.
Norman Lear had nothing to do with The Facts of Life. Research, please.
There has been a view that boys who exhibit feminine tendencies and prefer to play with dolls and girls who exhibit masculine tendencies and prefer rough and tumble play are born that way.
All evidence is that such early play behaviors are predictive of homosexual orientation especially in boys (see Richard Green's book cited below). However, nobody has been able to provide genetic evidence for sexual orientation in spite of highly publicized false claims.
Indeed, evidence does exist from the UCLA studies of gender identity reviewed in Richard Green's 1987 book "The Sissy Male Syndrome" that boys who exhibit traditional feminine play were likely to have had that play approved by parents.
These behaviors are complex and are likely to be a combination of socialization (parental approval and other factors) and biology (not genetics but hormonal effects perhaps in the womb and/or as a result of early play patterns that get extended into early teen years when sexual orientation is obvious). Unfortunately, the current politically correct view is that such behaviors are entirely biological if it happens to be a masculine girl or a feminine boy, but entirely socialization if it happens to be a feminine girl or a masculine boy. This current politically correct view is absurd.
2
Women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosomes. These biological difference have a substantial effect on behavior.
2
I've never encountered anyone ever who disapproves of femininity in girls. Not sure what world you live in but I've never visited.
1
It's all over. Parents discouraging girls from choosing dolls over building blocks, and insisting on gender neutral clothing for kids who'd much rather be wearing a tutu over their snow pants with a tiara.
Personally I love the kids who insist on wearing a tutu every day - especially if it's over blue jeans and kid sized combat boots. Or the ones who have Barbies but improvise Viking costumes for her and have her go on mystical sea voyages on a ship made out of a wooden salad bowl with a dish rag for a sail. I didn't have a tutu but I did play Viking Barbie when I was a child. I sewed her clothes myself - a skill I learned from my grandmother who made her own clothes and built her own house.
3
Sorry a six year old wanting make-up? Much too young. Let her live a little then when she's older give her a day at Red Door.
2
Defining girls and women by either as "girlie-girl or a "Tomboy" characteristic is sexist. I have women friends who are either "tomboys because they love to backpack or are girlie-girls because they love to dress up and go out. Which are they? IMHO opinion they are "complete women."
1
This system we have of sorting likes and dislikes into "Sissies, Tomboys, Girlie Girls and Mama's boys" has to end if we're ever going to make true culture changes. Devaluing typical feminine traits is a step backward, even if praising tomboys might be seen as forward-thinking. Just supporting children and not being critical of their likes and dislikes is a stepping stone to gender equality.
2
The idea of what it is to be 'feminine' is what is in question. When it comes to young children, aren't young girls who want barbies, lipstick and tutus possibly being introduced to these notions of femininity by what they see on tv and social media? They are copying 'glamorous', 'successful' adult behavior. As a child I grew up with none of these adult role models. (yes, I'm old) and was a total tomboy, never considering my appearance in any way, until I went to art school as a late teen. It was very freeing.
As a young woman, I fully embraced some of the worst aspect of sexual adornment, e.g. heels, stockings and short skirts in freezing weather. The question: Why does 'femininity' so often involve restriction and sacrifice? From corsets to girdles to push up bras, heels that alter your gait and destroy your feet and restrict your ability to run. The hours that some women will still spend at hairdressers having dangerous chemicals applied to their hair, the leg, eyebrow and bikini waxing, the fake nails and manicures, the time spent, the money wasted, the discomfort... all of it it's ridiculous!
1
Nuttier still, men who spend 20 minutes Every Single Morning shaving their face. Seriously. 120 hours a year - and for what?
My own experience, as a not traditionally feminine female, is that all the "Queen Bees" and their minions were "girly girls" and bullied girls like me unmercifully. And they never grew out of it. And all the daddies melted like butter before them. I still think they are scary.
2
"But this exchange made me wonder: Why are some of us so disapproving of feminine girls and so approving of masculine ones?"
Here's a better one: why are you so invested in prematurely sexualizing little girls? There is a qualitative difference between allowing one girl to play baseball and another--six years old--to wear makeup. One is a skill, the other is about altering appearance to be more attractive. And it's never been appropriate--outside white trash toddler beauty pageants--to put makeup on children.
5
Here we go again, the umpteenth extreme feminist story by the NY Times.
We should stop maligning femininity and masculinity.
People in glass houses should not throw stones Ms. Davis.
The post 1980 feminists have been condemning today's men for five million yrs. of existence. They most atone for their past sins, give women special treatment and turn into them in all aspects.
When you do this Ms. Davis you help elect an ego maniac demagogue like Trump.
Most people hate identity politics Ms. Davis, male, female, republican, democrat etc.
2
I like Ms Davis’ efforts here.
As a boy I envied the girlie girls! Everything they did was ART: painting nails, curling hair, dressing—it was all about using line, value, texture, color, and form to create an image! 100 times more fun, to me, than bashing heads on the football field, which I was forced to do to become a “man.” So when feminists go off on girlie girls I too shake my head in disbelief.
Masculine contempt of girlie glamour seems like a pompous and unconvincing attempt to deny the power girlie art exercises over men—a transparent attempt to denigrate a traditional source of feminine power. Feminist contempt for the way it turns women into “objects for the male gaze” seems to be based on a narrow, “masculine” view of desire, a contempt for the attractive and receptive. But it also allows a political ideology to turn us into aesthetic philistines.
Anything that makes the world less beautiful, however politically respectable, is a crime in my book.
2
I've been working and living in China for the past several years and one of the really nice things about life here is that the binary is strong. Girls are feminine and boys are masculine. The little boys run around the garden in my apartment complex with their toy guns and the little girls wear their ballerina dresses and skates. Everyone thinks this is perfectly normal and, guess what? It is.
1
Did you know that Sarah Jessica Parker grew up in a home that did not allow Barbie dolls, and then she grew up to play a Barbie-type character on tv? I mention this to make the point that what your daughters or sons do today has little bearing on the person they'll be tomorrow. Just chill.
4
Wow, this is one messed up line of reasoning. The problem is the lipstick, and the paint, and the eyelashes, and the spanx and the tight pants, and the low cut shirts and and and...Makeup is not complicated at all. It's face paint, pure and simple. You wear it for other people to see, since you can't see it yourself. It's a performance. That's exactly what women are sick and tired of - being told they must perform, they must smile, they must wear push up bra's, they must do things to make their bodies look different than they do naturally...and on and on into infinity.
2
You mean that people have to stop saying I run like a girl?
1
One might rightly suspect that, in part because social norms can only be contested by affirming new ones, any concerted attempt to regulate personal identifications and styles will not escape the general problem, which might be called, in a nod to 60s philosopher Herbert Marcuse's "surplus repression," surplus normativity.
Today the ideal can only be for it to be assumed that gender and other markers of identity and personality are, not meaningless by any means, but groundless, arbitrary, multiple, and ideally up for grabs. The ideal would be the total autonomy of an disembodied individual walking into a store with personal attributes and choosing those he/she likes. (This model is that of a neoliberal capitalism, of course, and it is a fantasy and an impossibility.) Some people think that we should refuse all normativity in order to refuse normality, holding instead that there is no such thing. (Some queer theorists and some forms of "anti-psychiatry" hold this position).
I suggest instead a "weak normativity." In this schema, it would still be possible to understand yourself as a man and not a woman, or vice-versa (arguably, one cannot be both at once). But not only would styles of recognizably masculine and feminine personality be more numerous and varied, people would in general have less invested in these identities and personalities. And there would be less anxiety about them. The shift could be towards worrying more about other things.
No women in this planets history have ever had it as good as they do now in America. Stop complaining about the world not being perfect and just make the most of who and what you are.
1
what is this, season three of Mrs Maisel? Some of you were born to find anything to worry too much about. Focus on Trump and stop fretting so much about how you raise your daughters. they will never be perfect. get over it.
1
At a Halloween party this year, an impromptu group of about 7 (about age 25 to 40) had a competition. This was not organized, it was spontaneous (helped by some wine). “Do your best girly-girl walk.” Several women did just fine. One woman, about 30, did the walk, but refused to make it girly. She swaggered on her walk like a man. Two guys did better jobs. Details: Jeffco Colorado (near Denver). Oct 26, 2018.
Conclusion: Your call. Do we devalue the feminine, even at an adult event where guests dress any way they like - from princesses to monsters?
A diverse group of highly talented young finalists just competed on The Voice. The winner was a tiny, too young girl who yodeled, sang country, and looked so feminine that Barbie was said to have burned her girlie girl wardrobe.
Ultra feminine girls and women are far from disappearing or even fading. An argument could be made that the type is more popular than ever. (Check out the latest in hiiigh heels.) Nail salons are ubiquitous. And female high school athletes are as invisible as ever on TV sitcoms. If not for Nike commercials we’d never know they existed at all.
So, have no fear. You and your friend occupy a pretty small echo chamber. Femininity of the extreme variety is alive and well and yodeling loudly at a talent show near you!
By the way, that girl deserved to win. She’s dynamite.
Liking costumes is fine, and makeup is another costume. Let's just make sure our kids don't think their worth comes from the costume, or others' opinion of it. As parents, let's be more interested in their (and our) capabilities than their (and our) appearance.
1
I think the writer is thinking too hard. We will always find a man who is feminine as such. We also will think mannish of some girls and women. We evaluate things all the time, viscerally - so we react to food, or a pretty flower, or a person whose nose has been broken. It is entirely one thing to let people be as they are, but to edit out our reactions is impossible.
While I agree with many of the points in this article, I seems to look at society’s so-called preference for masculine-of-center women and trans men through rose-colored glasses. Homophobia and transphobia are real and non-gender-conforming women are often targets for harassment and ridicule, with our visible queerness making us vulnerable even in so-called progressive urban centers. Similarly, trans men who are outed at work or in other settings are harassed, isolated, and even fired. Rather than painting tomboys, masculine-of-center women, and trans men as somehow privileged relative to feminine-presenting women, let us consider the different ways we can work together to chip away at the sexism and misogyny that are at the heart of all forms of sex- and gender-based discrimination.
1
I was a tomboy as child. When I expressed a real desire to learn how to do some of things that the boys did, like running the film projector in class, I was overlooked. I was never picked last in gym but because I was athletic and considered smart I was relentlessly teased and accused of things I never did. I was told to be more ladylike, not be so "mean". In other words, being a tomboy didn't protect me from criticism that was directed at my natural tendencies to be very active, analytical, to want to take things apart and put them back together, or to love science subjects. I received absolutely no encouragement from my teachers or my parents. In fact they put so many obstacles in my way that I gave up on my dreams.
The other side of this however, is that when I did become interested in make up my parents were just as negative. They never complimented me or told me I was pretty or desirable. (I was desirable enough to beat up and to have the doctor molest me.) I loved dressing up in my mother's old clothes. It wasn't that I saw myself as a grown woman but that I loved wearing the clothes and trying out a role. What no one could reconcile, because of the stereotypes of the 1960s and 70s, was how I could be a girly girl and a tomboy without a problem. I knew who I was. They couldn't figure out how to treat me: like a child in need of adult love and protection and encouragement. Isn't that what any child wants and needs?
2
It is the nature of and necessity of a pendulum to swing to both extremes. It is a by-product of them that they hypnotize in the process. Such as it is with the Gender pendulum. Demanding that a person be the stereotype everyone envisions would have denied the world Marie Curie or Rudolf Nureyev. Since the pendulum seems to be back on the move it's hard to stay out of it's way.
Being a woman is a complex, rich experience, and while it can be hard, my life gets more and more enjoyable over time as I gain the confidence to embrace the duality of my interests. I wear dresses to work as a software designer/programmer because I like wearing them. I love the part of my morning routine putting on makeup; it's a daily expression of my artistic talents. Then after work, I come home, put on greasy overalls, and work on my first classic car restoration--because I decided I wanted to see if I could, and it turns out I can. (And I love it!)
We don't have to be one or the other, tomboy or feminine. We can be both if we want. To me, that is the best part of being a woman, and the disadvantage of being a man. I hope that as it gets better for us, it does for them as well--and for gender-nonconformists--and we can all be freer to be ourselves.
1
"There is no reason any of those things should be strictly for boys or girls, or the genders in between." Actually there are just 2 genders, let's stick to science. We should look to science when considering gender as well as climate change. That said, of course we should allow a wide latitude in children's behavior. They are learning about the world and trying different things. A smart aleck interviewer once asked Halle Berry if she "throws like a girl". She said "I do everything like a girl". The obsolescence of the patriarchy should not undermine the feminine.
1
@Tom W. The biological sciences would say there are two sexes not "genders" and the social sciences would say there may be two dominant genders but that they are fluid socio-cultural constructs.
Why does everything need a label? Just let kids be kids and express themselves how they want.
1
The author should rent "Little Miss Sunshine".
The early sexualization of young children, rampant is this culture, by the child's or parent's choices and acquiescence, if not done minimally and prudently, contributes to gender confusion and later provocative behaviors.
Our daughter wanted make-up (and heels) around age 12. We didn't encourage it, or praise how she looked with it. But we bought her some.
Her interest quickly faded.
Her mom never wears any make-up. I think that made a big difference.
So don't over-react. But don't reinforce sexist social expectations. Make sure daughters know they don't need make-up to be pretty, and you might also occasionally point out how unattractive a woman is who wears too much make-up...not to make fun of her, but to show how it is an open display of insecurity and bad taste.
Our boys, in contrast, were never all that gender conforming. Couldn't care less about sports, playing them or watching them. So they never had to outgrow any interest in joining a fraternity when they got to college.
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@priceofcivilization - you use the words "pretty" and "unnattractive" but that's really in the eyes of the beholder. Actors wear a ton of makeup onstage, onscreen, and at award shows and I would not call them unattractive. Ditto supermodel in magazine - you think they are ugly, perhaps, but others do not. As for "pretty" - who the heck knows what that even means anymore, and it's not important.
3
@priceofcivilization
Being a boy and playing sports has no logical connection to joining a fraternity in college.
5
I was/am a tomboy and my younger sister was/is a girlie girl (we are both in our 60's). My parents ignored my love of outdoor and "boyish" things and bought all gifts based on what my sister wanted. They thought that if they gave me enough pink frilly stuff I would change. They were wrong.
My dad finally started playing catch and taking me to baseball games because my older brother wasn't interested - they were the best times of my childhood. My mom just started giving me money or books as presents, that was good too.
1
Thank you, Ms. Davis, for this thoughtful piece. It strikes very close to home, and I needed to read it this morning.
Good points.
When I grew up in the 50s and 60s we were rather poor, so I was given short hair as a little girl and clothes from thrift sales. I wanted to be girlie, but my desires were thwarted. As an adolescent, I finally grew my hair long, but forced by necessity into bathing only once a week to conserve water, the oily skin
came and so did the acne. I was only a princess in my imagination. Adulthood brought me freedom to express my femininity, but I felt I had to learn from scratch. I was awkward at it while my sister, who was a tomboy, had a far easier time of assimilating. This article points out some reasons why. Now that I'm in my sixties, I am unabashedly female and feminist. I don't find any incongruity between the two.
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@MKathryn That is awesome.
3
Remember in all this hoopla that sex and gender are exclusive. Sex is male/female and biological. Gender is masculine/feminine and cultural. Despite the high hopes for intersection of the two, sex and gender do not intersect. If a boy wants to dress in what might be labeled feminine clothing, go for it. No big deal. But he'll never be a female.
2
About damned time that somebody mentioned the elephant in the room.
My daughter started out as a tomboy. Then went to kindergarten and abruptly was all into pink princess stuff. And various women around me tut-tutted how *disappointing* that must be.
Uh…why? If that’s what she likes and freely chooses, so what? Isn’t that what female empowerment is about?
So I threw a pink princess birthday party for her, and she and her friends were delighted. Especially seeing Daddy in a silly crown made her day. (Meanwhile my favorite picture from that party is of my son, who is sitting there with storm clouds over his head. I think he founded a chapter of Get Rid Of Slimy girlS that day. He got over it.)
Now she’s more in the middle. But hopefully she learned that being a girl is just as good as being a boy. Nothing to be ashamed of. And my son is hopefully learning that real men aren’t afraid of empowered femininity.
3
I agree that we should allow children to express themselves. However, when I’m at a birthday party and every single one of the 15 little girls are dressed in sparkly pink and lavender, or when I see that there are boy’s aisles (fun trucks and building toys) and girl’s aisles, where every damn thing, including the toy brooms and dustpans (really!) are pink and purple, I doubt that little girls are making a free choice from their own individual feelings. It’s fine if they want to wear pink, but not if they feel that’s the only acceptable choice.
5
Lately my four year old daughter has entered a princess phase. (She is also into cars and dinosaurs.) My objection to these princesses, about which I’m vocal, is not to do with their femininity, it is to do with the fact that they still predominantly have a body shape that cannot be found in nature. They are wasp-waisted to the point of being actual wasps. My daughter says to me, “Well, mama, if you don’t like princesses, you have to stop wearing dresses.” She has a kind of point. But as someone who had an eating disorder as a teen—so many women did!—I look back at how much it cost me, in terms of the toll it took on my health. I don’t want the same for her, and I’m keen to keep her aware of where all these mixed-up, damaging body image notions start.
3
How about we skip the term gender non-conforming as well? Why not simply let individual children explore their own interests and not worry so much about defining it? A boy who is into art or literature rather than sports is just into something that interests him. A girl who prefers science and sports is into something that interests her.
As for vanity, it is in no way only a female obsession. Just consider Trump, for example. He likes to think of himself as a hypermasculine male but he dyes his hair and must spend an inordinate amount of time and hair spray arranging it given how baroque a construction it is. He chooses his clothes carefully to (unsuccessfully) hide his weight. As for interests, he clearly had no interest in serving as a soldier, the most traditionally masculine of all activities.
Even makeup and frilly clothing which we associate with women are not just for women in other times and cultures. At an Indian wedding it's not just the bride who is dressed in sparkly things. In many non-industrial cultures men often paint themselves. And even in the US, culture and class vary tremendously in how women express themselves in clothing. Men's T shirts and jeans are the major clothing group for white women of a certain age throughout the rural midwest. In the South, however, full makeup and frills are the norm for the same kind of women. Where it all becomes problematic is when we are forced to give up our own preferences for the "right" ones.
6
For a very long time I have been upset over the glorification of women who most resemble men. What is wrong with being feminine? It seems that the only women who are shown in a positive light light these days are those who most resemble men in their actions and preferences. At times it seems that showing interest in anything that resembles non-masculine actions and desires is somehow inferior. If someone wants to sew, cook, or raise children they should not be loked down upon. True equality allows for traditional as well as nontraditional roles for both sexes. No one should be made to feel ashamed to be feminine or masculine.
8
Glorification of women who look like men?
Glorification by whom?
I guess I don't know enough about celebrity culture. I cannot think of a single "mannish" woman who is glorified.
1
The strongest people in the world will always be men who embrace some degree of femininity, and women who display some degree of masculinity. As with everything, it's those out toward the ends of the spectrum - macho on one side, princess-like on the other - who are the most mentally/emotionally incomplete.
2
Just like gender is a range, so is what we like and what we want for ourselves. It is not racist, sexist, or any other -ist thing. Now it becomes whatever-ist if we hate someone based upon something they cannot control. By controlling, I mean you cannot control your gender, you cannot control who/what you are attracted to.
I do have a huge problem with giving makeup to any 6-year old, or even 10 year old for that matter. Our kids are sexualized enough as it is and they are not old enough to understand the visual signals makeup sends. This does not mean that you cannot find other ways to allow your glam kid a way to shine. And please note, I did use gender neutral terms on purpose. My good friend growing up was a glam kid. We often thought that we should trade my 2nd X-chromosome for his Y.
The biggest problem with makeup for anyone is that the chemicals used are now thought to cause real medical problems. These same cosmetics also cause environmental problems. The more they are used and the longer we use them, the worse the problem becomes. No responsible adult would allow a kid to slather harmful chemicals on their skin. There are so many things people can do to bring out their true beauty in their kids that doesn't require potentially harmful substances. I say this not only as a confirmed Tom-boy but as a formally educated chemist.
1
@skramsv:
Expression, identity and sexuality are ranges. We now live in a culture where we are more free to express those things as we choose. That's why this column exists, and I'm all for it. But don't confuse those things with the gender you were born with; they are not the same.
Except for the occasional medical anomaly, we are born either male of female.
2
It’s all so complicated. I would just say that if someone said I was “gender non conforming” as a girl because I was serious about playing softball and didn’t want to wear a dress to picture day, I would be deeply offended. When did our notions of gender get so rigid?
5
When I was 8 I refused to wear dresses or be girly. Barbie dolls were objectionable! I wasn't really a tomboy, though. Not physically aggressive or athletically talented. Trying to remember back… I think it was that I perceived girls as powerless and not respected, and also not intellectual. Ruffles and science just didn't go together in my child mind.
4
I know a girl who also at age seven or eight wanted to wear boy's clothes. She had been excluded from the higher level math group which was all boys even though she loved math and was good at it. She was really frustrated about that, and I think it was related. Now as a grownup she really likes feminine clothes. She also got to take advanced math in college!
1
Lipstick on a 6-year-old child may seem fun and harmless, a kind of "dress up" taken outside the house, but no child, anywhere in the world, should be allowed to wear makeup.
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@FromDublin: why not?
Usually for a child that young, it is "pretend" makeup anyways -- bright pink and sparkly -- and not the heavy makeup of a child pageant winner.
Also: it all washes off.
2
Important point regarding the double standard for gender non-conforming girls vs boys, due to a broader devaluation of all things "feminine." But what is "masculine" and "feminine" anyway? In these complicated gender times we discuss and allow, or not, superficial trappings of the traditional stereotypes, but how many trans men are begging to saddle themselves with the "breadwinner" role and an onerous mortgage for their families, and how many trans women are striving for unpaid toilet cleaning, cooking, and draining childcare? So, sure, whoever of whatever sex wants to wear lipstick or kick a soccer ball, go for it! But can we start talking about redefining oppressive labor norms for men and women soon?
There are tons of female athletes--top professionals--who love make-up and fashion. This seems like an article from 20 years ago.
4
Make up is for grown ups. Or kids playing dress up or dressing for Halloween. Make up in daily life is not okay for kids, any more than high heels would be.
4
I have no sisters, no daughters but a fair number of neices and granddaughters. They all loved pink and purple anything until puberty. I think their preferences for girl things or boy things before puberty is no predictor of what they will like as adults. The adults among them are neither girly nor butch nor tomboyish, just sound and mature adults with a wide variety of colors and styles in their wardrobes and lives.
Why would anyone label their 6 year old a "gender non-conforming girl" just because she prefers baseball to princesses? That term implies the girl is not conforming to her gender, but she is! Girls can like baseball gloves and sweatpants and dislike princess and the color pink and still be 100% conforming girls! Just let them be, whether they like baseball or lipstick. It's all good. Just stop overthinking it all and using terms like "gender non-conforming girl." Geesh.
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@Confused You're absolutely right. We've gotten quite ridiculous with some of these overly-PC terms, and indeed, saying a girl is 'gender-non-confirming', just because she likes baseball, is in fact a sexist term in and of itself. There's nothing wrong with girls liking baseball, or boys playing with dolls. Kids are the most natural beings on the planet, so we need to just let them be!
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@Confused The new language of labeling comes straight (so to speak) out of Academia. And, it fosters endless discourse which ignores the most critical socio-economic question: cui bono (who profits?)
2
Thank you for your thoughtful essay. Feminism to me is about choice. Period. Unfortunately, it seems that judgment about our choices often comes from those who make a point of declaring themselves feminists.
4
@Paula: the hypocrisy of liberals is that they demand "choices"….then get furious if anyone chooses DIFFERENTLY than would!
1
@Concerned Citizen way to stereotype people and raise the bar of conversation. Good job, Concerned Citizen.
Good grief. These conversations get more absurd every day. Women - girls - are over one-half the population of the world and are simply human beings with different desires.
Stop trying to "capsulize" girls/women.
Some girls want to play with dolls - so do some boys.
Some boys want to play football - so do girls.
Some girls want to be doctors - so do boys.
Some boys want to be president - so do girls.
Some women want to stay home and care for family - so do some men.
The point is that women have an inalienable right - given to them by their creator - to live exactly as they want and to make decisions about when/if to add to the human population.
7
At its core, the "culture of lefty liberals" has one big idea about parenting: whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong.
Conservatism with a big "C" is mostly taboo in these pages even though the vast majority of readers through their actions strive for its values: two-parent families that prioritize education and hard work, help their children to make healthy choices and lead balanced lives, and encourage their children to grow up to be well-adjusted, which usually means mostly conforming to the social norms of the day.
5
@Troglotia DuBoeuf The problem is that conforming to social norms means that those norms never change. Democracy would never have happened if everyone just conformed to social norms a few hundred years ago. Most of the values you espouse--education, healthy choices, balanced lives, a semblance of freedom and social mobility--are achievable because of people who didn't conform.
There's always a tension between stability and progress.
1
@Troglotia DuBoeuf - the difference is that while I may strive for those things in my personal life, I don't want to use public policy to punish those who choose differently or are unable to achieve those goals.
1
How about leaving them alone?
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Thinking like this is why Trump will be re-elected in 2020.
8
But more importantly, we need to stop maligning masculinity.
11
There have been episodes of "This American Life" that explored how the 1980's male gay culture of San Francisco favored butch over fem... and how anatomical females went from cool when relatively masculine but gay to, after transitioning to male, uncool as somewhat effeminate and straight.
1
Let the kid have fun, the more you make an issue out of lipstick or make up in general the more it becomes an issue. If you really want to get off the hook over this issue put your kid in an all girls catholic elementary school. Absolutely no make up allowed until high school ,if then.
3
This essay is oh so true. Real feminism values what is considered traditionally feminine.
2
Lately, whenever I read articles about "liberal" values, gender concepts and roles, "Sex and the City" comes to mind. Sarah Jessica Parker's character was (in my opinion) quite feminine but also very strong. The show seemed quite happy to reinforce strongly feminine and strongly masculine stereotypes, yet was often hailed as a paragon of New York liberalism and lifestyle.
As a person who tries to take issues on their individual merits, and who agrees with Kirkegaard that labeling people negates them, it is my observation that all of these attempts to categorize, define, and judge the world and its people are ultimately self-defeating.
3
Correction: Kierkegaard. :D
I agree with the author. Even though the height of the average man may be 5'9 and the average woman 5'5 we don't think of tall women as masculine and short men as feminine. It's part of the natural distribution.
So why should we think of a girl who displays the traits of a "tomboy" more masculine, rather than simply being part of the distribution of all girls. the same with boys who display traits more toward the "average" for girls.
Frankly I think both the traditional feminist AND the current transgender movements to be sexist. One says that it is only the half of the female distribution that is more "masculine" that are valuable, and the other says that if a man falls on the more "feminine" side of the distribution, they must be a woman because "men aren't like that."
2
Let 'em be, sez' I. Except for cosmetics - but that applies to everybody. Google "poisons in cosmetics" - Yikes!!
4
Very good article. The problem is that we are forcing a new identity on our kids to replace a previously forced identity. We need to step back and allow our children to be who they are and grow into who they want to be. I truly don't think my wife and I tried to force any agenda on our children, yet my son took to all things typically associated to boys and my daughter chose typical girl things. Not that there wasn't overlap, there was. But giving my son a Barbie doll or my daughter a baseball bat when they would have traded with each other seconds after opening their gifts is not the solution. It is the problem on the other other end of the pendulum.
1
This was an important read for this hetero male who has had a thing for tomboys ever since I was a little kid. I married one. But I also missed out on the possibility of a beautiful romantic relationship in college because I assumed that a good friend, and a tomboy, was gay. She wasn't.
I've learned a lot from my twenty-two year old daughter, who dresses nicely and wears makeup, but is also a fierce athlete, outspoken, and usually the aggressor in her romantic relationships. She often speaks about this very issue: the denigration of femininity. She points out that there is no equivalent word for 'effeminate' as it might apply to women with culturally masculine traits.
I confess, as both of my kids were gestating and I was awaiting their arrival, I found myself thinking of traits that I might not like. Two rose to the top: a macho boy and a girlie girl. I've always appreciated people who possess, and are comfortable with, their masculine and feminine sides. But there are some people who are most comfortable on one end of the gender spectrum. I often find myself struggling with that, though I know I shouldn't.
Ms. Davis's essay helps.
12
How about we just encourage children (and adults for that matter) to be free to express themselves in ways that make sense to them and give them joy. We can couple that idea to kindness and tolerance and would likely have a more pleasant world to inhabit.
19
Gender is a scientific reality in most newborns. We are either male or female at birth. In today’s world, so many distinctions have become blurred.
I have enjoyed being a girl and a woman. I accept that females have historically been treated as inferior to males and expected to be subservient to males. However, many women in my lifetime have used their minds and talents to rise to the top of their professions. Good for them and other females.
What is sad, however, is our interior lives when we choose traditional roles as mothers are so looked down upon. There are people who enjoy who they are. Must we put everything under a microscope? Deal with yourself
and your life and experience life more rather than study it more. Be more rather than do more. We are human BEINGS not human DOINGS. Enough!
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@Sophia The problem with your acceptance of women being treated as inferior to men and an expectation of subservience is this has a huge ripple affect on other women. For example, women in the workplace have to work with men who treat them as their wives, sisters, or mothers, which is not the same as a professional relationship. This encourages, mansplaining, discriminatory pay, and of course discrimination against working women with children. Further, everyday humiliations are still heaped on women on public transportation, contracting for services, and a host of other situations. Women who aren't part of the working world are insulated from many of these egregious behaviors. In fact many married women might be surprised to learn how their husbands treat women when they are absent.
10
@Sophia I might alter your first sentence to say that sex is a phenotypic reality in most newborns. Gender is distinct from sex, and therein lies the problem: we see the genitalia of a newborn, and the assumptions commence that will exert great forces on the development of this new human.
Beyond that, I agree with what you wrote.
7
@Roberta I don't think Sophia is saying it's okay for women to be treated as inferiors, just that it's a historical fact.
I think she's correct when she says that many of us look down on women who choose more traditional roles, such as being stay-at-home moms. I know that I have this tendency, and it's wrong. In this sense, I am also treating a certain group of women as inferior. That's not okay. I'm working on it.
5
Just let kids be kids, they'll figure it out. This focus on picking your gender and using the proper pronouns is ridiculous. It affects less than 1% of the population and has everyone doing back flips to try to figure out what is the 'right' thing to do. My boys never liked playing with cars, would play with Barbies if whatever girl in kindergarten they had a crush on wanted to. One was a sports addict, the other through his glove at me when he aged out at 12 and said, 'there satisfied, I'm never doing that again!' We focus way too much on labels and then we are afraid of labels. I am over 60 and grew up with Barbies, I created whole and fantastic lives for them. It fueled my creativity and in my case gave me a fantasy world much better than my reality as I played next to a bed my mother lay dying in. As I got older, I also learned to fix my own car and not to depend on anything that I couldn't accomplished myself. I wore make-up my whole life, when I didn't need it and then in my 50's when I did need it, I dropped it, you know why, because time became more important as I got older and I didn't want to give any more of it, to making myself look what magazines told me was better. When my kids were little I tried to enforce toy gun laws, didn't work, sticks became guns. The only thing your kids need to learn is everything, and pink or flannel are irrelevant when you have to survive in the 21st century.
18
The age old "chicken or the egg" quandary, do the clothes make the man/woman or does the woman/man make the clothes? Some of the strongest women I've known dress femininely and some dress "tomboy-ishly." As for men, just as pressured, if not more, to fit the role.
3
Thanks for writing this article. My mom let me wear makeup once I was 16 and it was the best moment ever. I remember the day well. It's way too superficial to think that just because I wore makeup (and still do) that I have also absorbed society devaluation and objectification of women. Mom always instilled in me that my brains are more important than my lipstick. Mom always emphasized being independent. As such, I love my femininity and feel no qualms about it. So, a child is a girly girl or tomboy, it's all great. It's the values you impart that matter. Strength, independence, intellegence are just as feminine as it is masculine.
5
Do you not see a difference between you at 16 wearing make up and a little girl wanting to do so at 6?
We are so much more than "tomboys" or "girlie girls", although I agree with the author's premise that maligning femininity is just another form of anti-female sexism and internalized misogyny. I have been shocked over the years at how viciously some supposed "feminists" can attack other women's choices to become mothers and caregivers of children, including the contemptuous moniker of "breeders." No such scorn is heaped on adult daughters who leave paid work to become caregivers of elderly parents, btw.
The contrast between "tomboys" and "girlie girls" proposes a binary world, and yet girls may not fit into either of those categories, any more than all humans fit neatly into a binary view of sexuality. What about the bookworms, the athletes, the "science nerds", the "theater kids"? It is interesting that the author focuses on a binary categorization of girls based so much on appearance, when one might more logically categorize them by their skills. I was neither a tomboy nor a girlie girl, and neither were my daughters. Where do we fit in?
7
How can you use those labels at all? Feminine girls, masculine girls? Stop. Let your daughter be who she is, she is likely to experiment with all sorts of identities- that’s what kids are meant to do. She is a girl. There are only girls, not masculine or feminine girls. The same could be said of boys. Relax and enjoy your child.
8
Yes and no.
Yes - we shouldn't frown upon femininity. But certain things - like wearing high heals and push-up bras - are intended solely to sexualize women. If a woman wants to be taken seriously and not objectified - especially in the workplace - she shouldn't be parading around on stilts with her breasts pushed forward. I would not want my daughter doing these things. But I do support her in growing out her hair, wearing earrings, wearing dresses, and other things that our culture associates with women. None of these are harmful.
But no, I don't agree that "we must strip gendered associations from lipstick, dresses and glitter...." Like it or not, our species depends upon a distinction between male and female. And our culture has developed ways to distinguish between the two. The more we try to erase these differences, the more alien we become. We are not a population of unisex beings. We are two sexes. And there is nothing wrong with cultural norms that treat the two differently. I don't want to live in a world where I have to ask the person I'm potentially interested in dating if they are male or female because there are no distinguishing characteristics!
6
Currently, I only wear jeans, flannel shirts, and sneakers because I want to be comfortable. Girlie clothes are uncomfortable and I don't like men staring at me with predatory looks. Make up is irritating to my skin and I believe is a major cause in aging prematurely with all the chemicals injected in women's skin daily. And tomboys are not necessarily masculine. We still have curves!
8
@ART
Funny, because I find dresses comfortable and button down shirts and jeans extremely uncomfortable! To each her own!
2
Kids should be allowed to explore, within some extreme reason, whatever expressions they want in themselves. It causes more harm when parents start imposing or over-encouraging certain gender traits based on whatever PC value or contrarian argument is currently in their head. Just stop.
I was once anti Barbie also as an early parent of a daughter, favoring almost any other toy/cartoon out there. After watching the modern Barbie cartoon, I'm even more confused and disturbed. Barbie is no longer a dumb blond. But she has gone over-extreme to the other end. She's a doctor (apparently at 19), who's run for president, who excels regularly in robotics and STEM projects (that would challenge NASA scientists), who also spends the majority of her time shopping and gossiping with friends. So basically the same barbie for modern social life, just forcing all the traits our PC society thinks girls need more encouraging in. Is it working?
2
A word that has all but disappeared in our language referring to women is 'demure'. What a lovely name for a lovely attribute! Today it seems to stand for weak and disempowered. What would you call a man who sometimes acts in a demure way? A gentleman, perhaps? Gracious? Someone not full up with his own power and concerns... Audrey Hepburn comes to mind, not a bad feminine role model I'd say. Seems we're valuing powerful people way over gracious people, is that 'feminism?'
3
My suggestion to this mother is - pull the plug on your tv and all devices that your daughter is using, and take her camping. Our daughter has grown up without TV and limited exposure to ipads and cell phones and thus to advertising. She is a teenager now. She is feminine, and a tomboy, and is not a slave to technology or consumerism. She is an empathetic, independent critical thinker. While our parenting skills get some credit, not being exposed to consumer culture has been hugely beneficial.
Yes, we all need to be open to the wide spectrum of gender expression. But, the realities are 1) the benefits of being 'male' and masculine traits far outweigh the feminine in our society. Comments from JR and Josh Wilson summarized some of the benefits of traditionally 'male' pursuits. 2) Girls and women are brainwashed by advertising that comes at them 24-7, and spend an exorbitant amount of time and money on beauty products. 3) like it or not, there is a biological, instinctive component. Example: Deep voices command more respect, instinctively, than high pitched voices. 4) Girly girls are often stereotyped as stupid, manipulative, superficial and mean.
For women, it is a challenge walking the fine line between being too feminine and too masculine. Although I suppose that is true for men as well. Maybe in a few hundred thousand years, we will have evolved beyond gender bias, but I doubt it.
4
performative and stereotypical consumed and marketed back to ciswomen by transwomen, who claim to know better how to be a woman than women born in women's bodies, also.
4
The fact that language constrains the writer to use the terms tomboy and girlie girl is proof of the systemic sexism she is railing against. Our goal is to nurture, support, and embrace the full spectrum of human traits in all children.
4
Koromota Martinez says that indulging her youngest's affinity for the trappings of femininity was a matter of parity. Because she had already let her eldest embrace the trappings of masculinity.
She then suggests that it's sexist of us to hope that little girls will ask for baseball gloves instead of cosmetics.
But her logic is faulty. The reason we hope that little girls will ask for baseball gloves is because baseball is a healthy activity, for girls as well as boys. The reason we hope they won't ask for cosmetics is because it is not appropriate for children to participate in their own fetishization.
What is sexist is the way that institutions have coded healthy childhood activities, like baseball, as masculine and unhealthy ones, like cosmetic enhancement, as feminine.
To clarify: Dress up is a normal part of childhood play. Cosmetic enhancement is not. The latter is a culturally defined feminine behavior. And a rehearsal for toxic, self annihilating femininity.
It would be parity if, instead of having one daughter who loved lipstick and one daughter who loved baseball, Martinez had one who loves lipstick and one who loved toy rifles.
Let's not pretend that we're honoring our girls when we help them help corporations turn them into lifelong consumers of beauty products.
11
@MF
But what if the daughter asked for ballet shoes instead of a baseball glove? Both dance and baseball are exercise.
1
Girls wanting to wear makeup and dress older than their age is nothing new. It is up to the mother to say, no. Makeup at age six is age inappropriate. It’s not complicated.
8
@Helen Wheels Why is makeup at age six age inappropriate?
1
@Helen Wheels Is she playing dress up or is she going to school? I'd say there's a place for both.
I believe the author needs to learn to say no to her daughter. If she can't do it when she is young, it won't get any easier. Encouraging our daughters and sons to be themselves is its own reward.
4
Ms. Davis, how could you just throw in ballet with "pink" and "lipstick" ("or steer clear of pink or ballet or lipstick") as if ballet were some superficial style affectation on the level of makeup? Need I even say that ballet is arguably the most demanding, unforgiving and competitive form of dance there is? As well as aesthetically gorgeous beautiful and culturally definitive? Please walk back that thoughtless inclusion.
4
This is a very interesting perspective and does exposes a seeming paradox in the liberal view of masculinity and femininity, as well as a seeming societal preference for tomboys over beauty queens.
I come at this from a more basic perspective, by asking: What does "feminine" mean? Why does our culture associate pink with girls and blue with boys?
This view of feminine traits is cultural, not inherent. The culture is changing, rapidly. Men started dominating most cultures with the advent of agriculture and kept it through the industrial revolution. That is why it took until the 20th century for women in this supposed liberal democracy to vote.
Now, as we have been moving toward an information age for half a century, and women are getting more college and postgraduate degrees than men, we are seeing a sea change of gender dynamics, which includes questioning traditional gender roles from our male-dominated past.
Makeup, coyness, etc., are in some ways relics of males treating females as sex objects, which is why they are looked at negatively by liberals who feel this paradigm needs to end.
At the same time, some women use their sexual attractiveness to gain power in many of today's sexual battlefronts. This complicates the situation, doesn't it? They are using their girlish charm to be aggressive.
As it is difficult for youngsters in these rapidly changing gender dynamics to understand the context, I would recommend giving them space and discuss when they are ready.
1
I have read your article with interest. The thing that will, I expect, always have me scratching my head is why people who write about gender issues (ok, women who do) find it necessary to posit themselves as anointed spokespersons for (seemingly) All Women.
"...we devalue anything that's associated with women and girls."
It isn't just because statements like this are hyperbolic; if you lived my life and knew all of the women and men in it, you would see that this really is just not true.
Presenting women as being of uniform mind and bearing seems antithetical to the larger point that has been made by feminist writers of the last fifty years. And doesn't it, the need for some Greek Chorus of Female Consensus behind you, actually undermine the authority you have worked so hard to project? (phew! Is anybody else feeling warm in here?).
One the one hand, I congratulate the work you are doing; I am writing one myself and it is harder than it sounds. On the other hand, no one chose you (or me) to speak for them. In fact, reading the comments on just about any opinion article in the NYT (for one example) on any given day should show that people would rather speak for themselves.
Two things you should know about me:
I am a woman who identifies with masculinity, hence my name.
No! I'm just kidding. I am a sissy man raised by women, who sees the healthy variety of perspective among them.
Does one statement give me more authority than the other? It shouldn't, right?
3
I think we look for the same balance of masculine and feminine energy that we feel ourselves.
Why do we even have to pose this question for a 6 year old???
Kids (boys and girls) play dress up - it's not a big deal. A 6 yr. old wearing some make up around the house is not a 6 year old "wearing lipstick." It's just a 6 year old having fun!
Everybody, just lighten up. There's no need to label this. It's a 6 year old! Just let them be however they want to be.
6
I am a trans woman. Or, I am a feminine male living as a "transwoman": take your pick, I don't want to waste any time persuading anyone I am a woman, if they won't accept that. I have just read a comment saying trans women are a threat in changing rooms. I am not. Some people obsess over particular incidents in women's space, but most of us are just trying to live our lives, knowing how we are generally tolerated but how relentlessly we will be mocked, vilified and punished if we step out of a very narrow line. Theft is a far greater threat in changing rooms.
As a radical feminist, I believe that the difference between men and women is between the legs, not the ears: that femininity and masculinity are cultural constructs not innate. Society limits men, expected to hunt and fight, to particular expressions- the acceptable emotions are contempt and anger, and certainly not fear- and projects devalued characteristics onto women. So, Jung said the man must find his anima, the woman her animus, usually in middle life.
However fuzzy "femininity" is, however difficult to define, we have a concept of it which fits me better than masculinity. I have tried to "make a man of myself" and failed, and have struggled to see my feminine characteristics as positive rather than weak. We all have them. We all need them, for society to function. Society, starting with kindergarten, should allow all sides of each human to flourish. Otherwise we increase mental illness and waste of talent.
1
Leave the kids alone, hormones rule and mostly without exception. It's always been thus.
1
I think you are spot on with this.
I'm not against femininity as naturally expressed (which is rare), I'm against enforced toxic femininity, which is an exaggerated, stereotypical, and often capitalistic-friendly way of performing femininity. The grown version is Caitlyn Jenner -- a grownup who didn't understand that so much of so-called glamorous womanhood is utter fantasy.
So much of super-girly behavior is about creating a pleasing surface to curry favor with others. It's about self-objectification and premature self-sexualization. Tomboys, on the other hand, are interested in pleasing themselves and their true friends.
I was a little girl. I hung out with tomboys and boys, and girly-girls, and tomboys and boys were much better company, hands down. They were reasonably fair, they didn't create sneaky excluding rituals, they weren't mean.
Finally, no small girl should be wearing lipstick outside of the house. If you can't enforce that, what kind of parent are you?
6
Wow.
When I was 6yo, makeup, “fashion” like high heels wouldn’t have even been an option even if I happened to know anything about them. If I’d expressed interest in them thank god my mother would have told me to get a grip & go play outside.
How many normal young (6yo!!!) middle class kids from 30 yrs ago were obsessed with “fashion,” makeup, high heels, fancy dresses, etc.?
Today’s young/younger kids must be exposed to all these things it at considerably greater quantity than previous generations both directly via internet, social media, TV shows & videos for kids that can be replayed ad nauseam.
There is also the influence of other individuals in their lives including peers, older siblings & yes, even their parents.
Celebrity worship, luxury reality TV has permeated our culture like never before.
Kids today spend far less time outdoors, especially engaging in unstructured & unsupervised activities
like exploring nature etc. Sure, we had Barbie dolls too, but Barbie & her clothing weren’t role models & we had no interest in emulating the dolls or their “fashions.”
Parents shouldn’t buy this junk for their kids. Is it really normal for young girls to be hyper-obsessed with “hyper-femininity”?
Would teens & adult women even be so enthusiastic & enthralled with such things themselves if there wasn’t so much social pressure to do so on so many levels?
5
Really, sex itself is sexist. We have got to stop reproducing in such a mid-80’s way. With newly developed genetic permutation and cloning, we’ll all be truly the same — and prepared, literally cultured to live on an increasingly sterile, flooded, gaseous planet. While sex has commonalities with reproduction, the two must be entirely separated if we are to survive the irrelevant onslaughts of identity politicians and their chroniclers. We will all be sea mammals, which will be more injurious to the Dow than rampant inflation. A whale needs a cellphone like a fish needs a bicycle — and sexuality has to go! (What advertising will do is anyone’s guess)
1
The author doesn't mention what I consider to be positive aspects of femininity that should be more valued by both sexes: empathy, nurturing, and social awareness. We should spend more time encouraging boys to have some of these "feminine" or "girlie" traits, and less time encouraging girls to be more assertive/aggressive. We'd have a better world.
1
this kind of hyper-anxiety seems like navel gazers poring over trending problems to see how much more they can over-complicate them. (with apologies.) spare me! if i ever use a term like "gender non-conforming" about a 6 year old trying out different stuff while his mother worries if it is or isn't part of the patriarchy.
1
No, "gender-nonconforming girl" is not "the world's words". It is part of the jargon of an intellectual enclave, largely cut off from the world at large, within which the author apparently operates. Nor are fictional characters termed "problematic" in that wider land.
The problems agonized over in this piece are not major concerns among the great number of people who must grapple day to day with real world issues.
1
I found the author’s argument jumbled and hard to swallow. Those of us lucky enough to have grown up in the 1970s know that masculine dress and behavior for girls was far more acceptable and widespread in those days than it is now. It wasn’t until the third-wave “feminists” came along that girls became so sexualized.
2
The proper goal is accepting our children for who they are. The goal isn’t for them to be who they should be. It is for them to be who they want to be.
2
I'll dislike whoever I want to dislike. If you have a problem with that, well too bad.
I actually agree with the premise of this article. I have a girl in a progressive high income middle school who naturally likes girlie stuff but suppresses it because there is it’s considered cooler for a girl to be tomboy. As if only masculine expressions of strength have real value. As a woman, I really don’t like for any woman to have to fit into a masculine stereotype to be considered strong or assertive. That’s just another idealization of masculinity - to heck with that.
I expect, and sincerely hope, that a lot of those 'modern' mothers forcing masculinity on their daughters will be rewarded with a fierce backlash: Those daughters, when reaching puberty or adulthood, will double down and be the most traditionally feminine girls one could imagine, with all the self-confidence of a modern woman. It will be hilarious.
1
I really don't see any New "there" there in this piece. What I do see is Ms. Davis hawking her upcoming book.
4
This reminds me of the first timeI watched Legally Blonde and was confused about how I was supposed to feel about Elle Woods. Not only was she a beautiful, ultra-feminine hero with proven leadership skills, she actually used her intimate knowledge of beauty products to win her case. We were supposed to laugh at her priorities yet ultimately end up admiring her. Beautiful, feminine women are given many other privileges in life but are rarely given credit or the benefit of the doubt in terms of professional success.
1
I can't help but wonder why you referred to your friend as, your friend. Was it intentional or subliminal, to not reveal their gender?
Your piece does target a general audience, but in the current political environment it contextually reads to be for the patriarchy. But if it was an interaction with a female that led to this reflection, isn't it worth being more direct that its supporters of the patriarchy, feminism, and the various waves in-between that are guilty of these types of transgressions.
In the the seemingly infinite, yet somehow still growing list of ways we can be sexist, racist, and whatever other -ist you can come up with, it’s nice to list yet another.
At this point, everything is bigoted, so I just tune out the virtuous din.
Of course the question of gender identity and how we define it is interesting, but a real discussion about it just isn’t worthwhile, as any disagreement will result, inevitably, in the slur of “sexist” being thrown.
Honestly, it just ain’t worth it.
" The answer is that we have internalized a kind of sexism that values masculinity in both boys and girls " . Lisa Davis I salute your insight ! May I add that I find these macho women definitely unattractive but then they wouldnt really care, like guys wouldnt..
A whole generation of boys and girls is going to be destroyed by their super-evolved parents who adopt the pop-pychologisms of the moment and totally abandon what modest amounts of common sense they were born with.
Has nobody ever watched the Big Bang Theory and Leonard and his mom's interactions - they were designed as cautionary tales and not as role models
Leave it to east and west coasters to over-complicate being a mom.
One thing about living in a small town: it's impossible to see only a single facet of anyone. In some ways, smaller communities are more tolerant of individuals, and have less need for labels, because everyone is just themselves.
So everyone in the community knows the "girlie-girl" is also an excellent distance runner--but she's taking the season off because she broke her leg a couple months ago in a car accident, and wasn't she lucky that she was wearing her seatbelt?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, in her wonderful TEDtalk, talks about the danger of a "single story." If we give people just one story (their gender identity, for example), it becomes the only thing about them we ever know. We never get to hear about how they had to take the season off from cross-country because of a car accident, or all the other stories that make that person full and whole, so much more than their gender expression or performance.
That wasn't really what Adichie meant in her TEDtalk, but her words are so wise they apply to other situations, too.
2
Perhaps the problem is clothing. When we naked apes started covering ourselves, we had to devise other ways of hinting at what's underneath in order to encourage procreation. In today's overpopulated world it makes sense blur sexual distinctions.
All of which begs the question of where do the author and so many of the comment writers get the idea that it's ok to criticize other people's grooming choices?
1
Seems like the broader issue here is teaching girls to have a positive body image, free of the augmentations of makeup. I don't think its sexist at all to teach girls to liberate themselves from the shackles of contrived beauty.
2
this is a solid step toward sanity
Stop torturing over the endless minutiae of parenting. Do your best to be kind and empathetic to your kids. Realize there are details and themes, and try to focus on the latter. You might find that it's not necessary to obsess over disruptions to the fabric of space-time when a little kid of either gender wants to swipe rouge on their face or play in the mud.
Lisa Selin Davis concluded this article by announcing: "The problem is not lipstick. The problem is the way we devalue anything that’s associated with women and girls."
Quite an abrupt bait-and-switch at the end there.
Your conclusion actually punishes the reader who, after patiently reading to the very bottom of the piece, is abruptly told the article is filler and the writer actually feels a different albeit related topic is far more important.
1
It sounds to me like your solution to feminist ideology taking over your relationship with your child is MORE feminist
ideology. Just treat your daughter like the unique, individual human being she is. Support her in what she wants to do, even if it does not match what your ideology says she 'should' do.
NONE of this is about 'devaluing girls'. Go to conservative families....you won't see 'girly' things devalued at all (quite the opposite).
We have to stop assigning a gender to human behaviors. And, yes, we can have negative opinions about choices individual women make that negatively affect women as a class. It's sexist to coddle women by telling them everything they do is ok because "it's their choice!" It might be my choice to drive drunk, but it's still a stupid thing to do. So is wearing high heels. Which, incidentally, were first invented by men on horseback to stand up in the saddle and shoot arrows during battles. Just like men have worn long hair, face paint and skirts (Romans, Celts, Mongols) throughout history. The idea that any behavior is "feminine" or "masculine" is ludicrous on its face.
3
This is all very confusing. It certainly feels like personal behavior and is being forced down on everyone else. It's one thing to expect people to be tolerant. It's quite another, and ridiculous, to expect that someone should be 'liked'. Sexism is simply the denial of fundamental rights on the basis of the gender of a person. It doesn't include the right of a person to be 'liked'.
3
@Cynical
Excellent point.
I had a brain injury three years ago and have had brain surgery. One of the changes is that I lost my interest in cross dressing. I am a 67 year old black professional male. Now, however, my love of everything feminine is back. My loving wife of 42 years is okay with this.
Now, I am open with this. At a recent luncheon where I was the only man, I just blurted it out that when my mother passed my brothers got everything valuable. All I got was her dresses and other female stuff. I was cool with that.
Now, I just want little boys to know that being girly does not mean being gay. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
3
It is interesting how these things change with time.
High heels came from the Persian military to the French court and were only worn by upperclass men.
Men across time and culture have worn some form of 'dresses' (tunics) or colored their face. The ancient Romans would decorate their hair with flowers and sweet smelling herbal leaves.
Personally, I think a strong person is someone who pursues the style of self expression they like, whether its 'feminine' or 'masculine' or even something like 'sporty' 'goth' 'jarhead' 'wiccan' without G.A.F. what others think. Be you and treat others with respect is all I ask.
3
It's just impossible to know if a child is doing something because even in a genderless world they would have enjoyed it or because they picked up from the broader (still very gendered) culture something that this is something that "girls do."
Moreover, there lurks in this piece a very old dialogue in both feminist and queer discourse about the extent to which you can divorce traditional femininity from the patriarchal and heteronormative hegemonic culture. The liberal tendency to worry about stereotypically feminine behavior may stem in part from internalized sexism. But the clickbaity headline is obviously reductive, as is the conclusion. It's not "sexist" to feel that gender-normative behavior that has itself been forged in a deeply sexist culture is inherently problematic or that lipstick might, in fact, be a problem.
4
If a person is (or seems) beautiful to you on their inside - they will be (or seem) beautiful to you on the outside - regardless of their gender-sexual self-identification and preferences --
It is (or should be) really that simple...
1
@Howard G
That can be true sometimes and sometimes, perhaps often, people are first attracted to another person on a physical level.
"It should be" ??
Really? You decide what works for you and I'll decide what works for me.
"There is no reason any of those things should be strictly for boys or girls, or the genders in between." Doesn't this statement undermine the fundamental theory of your piece which seems to be that there do exist "boys" and "girls"?
Haven't we had enough issues with "real men being manly"? In what should be a more enlightened time, the actions of men such as Trump, Weinstein, Les Moonves, Douglas E. Greenberg, Peter Martins, Morgan Spurlock, Mario Batali, Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Russell Simmons, Roy Moore, Andrew Kreisberg, Louis C.K., Brett Ratner, Michael Oreskes, Michael Oreskes, R. Kelly, Terry Richardson, James Toback, etc. should at least teach us to embrace men who are "in touch with their feminine side".
Ultimately, boys and girls, men and women should all be allowed to be who they are without prejudgement, as long as they treat others with respect and adhere to the law.
1
*Adult* women (or men or cisgender or whatever you like) shouldn’t wear high heels! They are bad for your back and for your feet. They are the Western equivalent of Chinese foot-binding for women. Chinese women also bought into that idea as being “feminine” - if you had large feet it was shameful, a sign that you were poor and unattractive. Cultural influences make people think that high heels (or breast implants) are “glamorous”.
2
The reason you shouldn't give a 6 year old lipstick is that she is too young to understand that cosmetics are an accessory that says you are not pretty enough as you are. Women need to physically maximize their appearance to be happy or successful rather than develop their natural talents or intellect.
As the adult in the relationship it is your responsibility to explain to her when she grows up she will make those decisions. Until then you will and you think she is beautiful without makeup. It really isn't has hard or as complex as you've made it out to be.
5
No, we have not "internalized a kind of sexism that values masculinity in both boys and girls, just as it devalues femininity in them." We find toxic masculinity to be just as repugnant in boys and men as we find its supporting counterpart to be in girls and women. It's just as inauthentic to uncritically accept the whole package of camo clothing, sports fandom, assertiveness passed off as leadership, and so on, as it is to uncritically accept the whole package of Barbie, make-up, princess paraphernalia, enabling boorish masculinity, and the rest.
Authentic gender identity is hard, regardless of your biological sex.
3
Having raised three children I thought were all daughters, only to find that one of them was a son (at age 20 yet)! It's really about time we stop assigning value judgements to how kids dress, what they play with, and whether they wear make up or not.
One child wanted Barbies and everything pink. I bought them.
One wanted babydolls, pets, and shirts with slogans. I bought them.
One wanted make up, books, and princess dresses. I bought them.
Guess which one is straight, bisexual, and a lesbian (one each)?
Guess which one is FtM Trans, Gender Non-conforming female, and Cis-gender female?
Guess which one is a singer, an actress, and which is disabled?
You CAN'T, can you!
Also, I got pretty tired of getting the stink eye from other moms because I was a tomboy as a mom--translates to "crunchy." It's really time we stop being such jerks about it. People don't fit into such small boxes.
3
I don't see this at all, in fact, I see the reverse. My middle school daughter is a tomboy and has always gotten a lot of flack for it. In elementary and middle school girl culture, extreme girliness - sparkles! pink! kitties! - is prized and encouraged by teachers and the girls themselves. School culture today is far more genderized than it was when I was growing up in the 70's.
3
As a feminist, I have never understood why the trappings of commercial "femininity" should be accepted as femininity itself. I'm grateful that I grew up on the tail end of the baby boomer generation, before the current codification of femininity. I never learned to put on make-up, can't stand the look or feel or smell of it near me. And pink is my least favorite color, except as it appears in nature (flamingo plumage, peonies, shell interiors, sunsets). As it happens, I am mother to two sons who gravitate towards traditional male pursuits, but they still are learning to cook, to clean, to sew, and to nurture, just like their father, and, of course, learning to be feminists.
4
I have two daughters. One was obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine as a toddler, played travel team soccer for 6 years, ran cross country and track in high school, was on the high school math team, and is an exceptional student.
The other loved to dress up as a toddler, especially in princess clothes, was on a gymnastics recreational team for 3 years, has danced competitively for 5 years, is a member of varsity Poms and the high school dance company, is on the math team, and is an exceptional student.
I consider myself liberal.
4
"Lisa Simpson: [playing with Malibu Stacy] A hush falls over the general assembly as Stacy approaches the podium to deliver what will no doubt be a stirring and memorable address. [pulls Stacy's cord]
Malibu Stacy: I wish they taught shopping in school!"
—"Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy," THE SIMPSONS, 1994
4
As a “girlie girl” adult woman with a girlie girl daughter I have found no conflict in embracing traditional femininity with having independence and agency. My daughter has more self-confidence than her traditionally male brother because they have different personalities. I love fashion, jewelry and hiking in the great outdoors. What’s interesting is that some of the most powerful women in the world are very stereotypically feminine. Theresa May is known for her designer style. Apparently Kim Kardashian now has the power to push mandatory sentencing reform. Her “career” was built on a sex tape for God’s sakes!
16
In my heyday I liked my tomboys Montana-style: not afraid of men, not afraid of nudity and sex, not afraid of kayaks and guns and camping in the mountains. A former lover passed away this week. My favorite memory is watching her free-climb the interior limbs of a forty foot magnolia tree with a chain saw hooked to her tool belt.
Before adolescence we boys preferred tomboys: they were direct and clear about who they were and what they wanted. We couldn't help noticing that our girlie-girl classmates were manipulative and often cruel to the other girls, especially tomboys. No amount of ideological mumbo-jumbo will change that observed reality.
1
So some people are more comfortable letting their sons dress up in princess dresses than their daughters? I suspect those people take the currently popular politically correct "narratives" just a little too seriously. Lighten up and realise that these are positions to argue from, and therefore sometimes serve a useful purpose, but they are not _reality_.
Well duh! I think this was common knowledge in my daughters' middle school about 10 years ago.
1
It has been considered virtuous for girls to at least aspire to be like the superior sex. As Margaret Mead pointed out whatever men and women are supposed to do in any culture that which men does is considered more important.
Janet O'Hare, LCSW
2
That many women are feminine and many men masculine is not an actual problem, IMO.
Either Davis has a problem escaping from stereotypes, or she assumes that her audience does. Or is she confusing "femininity" with the premature sexualization of little girls in the media? This whole thesis is very muddled. I think I'll skip the book she is writing about tomboys.
3
Thank you. This has bugged me for years as I've heard people denigrate ballet and cheer leading, anything that girls do. Sneering st girls who like pink. sexism, pure and simple.
41
@lisads Anyone who denigrates ballet has no idea how hard those dancers, both female and male, practice and train. My daughter goes to class 4 times a week and has extra rehearsals before performances and competitions. Ballet dancers are tough.
11
@lisads I have 5 nieces (now grown) and I away always proud of whatever they did. A few really loved Martha Stewart for a while and all the cooking.. I don't see anyone sneering at cheer leading and dancing. Sorry - I don't.
1
@lisadsI'm sorry this happened to you. Sneering at anyone for any reason is just mean, sexist and there is no justification for it. The hyper sexualization of pre-pubescent girls though is also sexist.
4
The last sentence says it all--just let a child be who it wants to be and try to deflect any negativity aimed at it from the outside world as best as you can. As a woman who was raised in the 50s, I was able to play with the boys on my block. I was good at baseball and football and tree climbing. Dolls were given to me, but I didn't spend much time playing with them. I can't ever remember anyone making any negative comments about my being a tomboy. Rather to the contrary, I was proud of my skills. Maybe my experience was unusual for the times, but it was a wonderful childhood. I eventually turned into a teenager and my thoughts turned to hair, makeup and boys (in a much different sense), but I am so glad that my family let me be the kid I wanted to be.
1
I’m an old man now but have all my life been a big “sissie.” As a very young child I remember sneaking into my older sister’s (nine years older than me) bedroom when she wasn’t home to try on her makeup. As an adolescent I was regularly brutalized, physically and emotionally, for my overt display of “girly-ness.” And, as an adult, I was regularly discriminated against in jobs because I couldn’t quite master the swagger and strut of the manly men who got the promotions. Drag was an art-form I never tried (just too shy) but always appreciated for its subversive function and its message to me that I wasn’t alone. I appreciate this essay because while superficial it brings some important thoughts to light about gender identity and fluidity in young children. I don’t believe my trying on my sister’s makeup had anything to do with sexuality. I just remember that when I looked in the mirror with her eyeliner neatly applied, I looked fabulous.
13
It is my belief that there is a difference in true femininity, i.e. asserting ones capabilities and rights as a woman and exalting the female mind and body, versus the illusion of femininity that has been sold and inculcated into women by commercial interests trying to make money off Barbies, gemstones, and makeup. Rejection of these things is not tantamount to anti-feminism or pro-masculinity.
9
Just tonight I updated the frame holding my daughter’s school photo. She’s 11 and in the 6th grade. Her current daily uniform is made of sweats, sneakers, and her hair is cut very short. HATES the mall, makeup, and anything considered girly or trendy.
Four photos back (still kept in the frame), her hair was long and she was wearing a fancy blue dress with sparkly decorations. In her short life, she has experimented with a lot of different approaches to her outward appearance - some “girly” and some “Tom boy”. I have always viewed it as something like “trying it on”. I tell her the same thing when she comes home from school and complains of other girls talking incessantly about make-up. They, too, are trying it on. What feels right? What doesn’t? It’s okay that they like it and it’s okay that she doesn’t.
Seems to me that we should just leave it alone and not project our own conceptions and insecurities about gender into our kids. Let them figure it out on their own, find their tribe, and when they come home from the chaos of middle school, they are comfortable knowing they are loved no matter what.
15
@JSL. Thank you. Excellently put.
1
I'm very feminine (nurturer, mentor, maker), and a very accomplished scientist. Evidence is accumulating that mixed-gender teams are moe creative and accomplish more than all men teams, and industry is recognizing this. Feminine qualities are wonderful and should be celebrated.
However, "feminine" displays are detrimental to women's success, literally. Shoes that require mincing steps and lead to chronic pain, skirts and shirts that must be constantly adjusted so as not to be too revealing, hair, makeup and nails that interfere with active work and need to be constantly adjusted and repaired... I guess adversiting works, eh?
11
@Mary Donald
Or perhaps the "feminine" displays that you have insulted and denigrated are willfully chosen by women as personal expressions of style, as a way an individual might appoint themselves which makes them feel good and strong? All based on advertising or personal preference? Undermine women who choose something that might not be your taste? How immensely ignorant.
1
My 18 year-old granddaughter wore several layers of overalls and flannel shirts to school throughout the primary years. She's now in college, enjoying her body and wearing things I couldn't fit on one thigh. She's a fierce feminist and won't allow anyone to objectify her.
My 7 year-old granddaughter was Elsa or Barbie through the 1st grade and now wears a hoodie and Chuck Taylors to second grade.
My 3 year-old grandson often stuffs a toy owl under his shirt because he wants to be pregnant.
And I love every iteration. Not standing in the way is the way.
9
One of the things I love the most about watching women's team sports is seeing these young women running around on soccer fields, baseball diamonds, and basketball courts with their hair done up pretty much the same, in ponytails or braids, or in the same color of ribbons. I had the pleasure of sitting near once such team—women's college basketball players—flying from FL to Asheville last year. They were trash talking and smacking each other, putting on make up, taking smart phone shots of everything, and fixing each other's hair. And then they stood up to get off the plane and they were, to a one, tall, athletic, and rightly full of themselves. This was something one simply did not see when I was a young woman, and it gives me great joy and comfort to see it now. Of course we have much to do and a long way to go—it's just good to notice how some of the things that scare us as parents can be taken care of in the larger context of making sure our girls get every chance to develop confidence in themselves.
6
I find pink sapphires to be particularly striking. I was telling a former co-worker about that, and he said, "see those guys over there playing baseball? What would they think of that?"
It's just a color, but, well, men's jewelry for men, woman's jewelry for women. In reality, it's just a faceted piece of rock in a metal band. But, I don't have any rings with pink stones.
1
One has to remember that the pink blue divide is also a pure marketing ploy and a 20th century invention for selling something. It is reinforced by peer pressure, some parental expectations and advertising. Let kids be kids and experiment when they are very young. My wife of 36 years never did get into the feminine accoutrements. High heels hurt her feet, makeup was an unnecessary adornment that took time and dresses didn't have pockets to carry her wallet and swiss army knife. She faced numerous obstacles and impediments such as sexism to become a research scientist but succeeded. Our daughters were raised to be anything they wanted to be and they came out fine. One likes the entire feminine accoutrements, the other, not so much. Now, the grandchildren are being raised the same way. Strong role models for both masculine and feminine with a healthy dose of equality and respect from both.
14
Its always amusing to see how parents think that they can truly monitor and change their children actions and change them. You can guide, but enforcing ideological orthodoxy will most likely lead to rebellion.
My parents banned South Park and swearing. I watched South Park in secret and I started swearing as much as I could when I could like most of my friends.
To paraphrase a quote; the harder you tighten your grip the more will slip through your fingers.
11
@Mark F
Well stated.
1
At last! I have thought the very same thing for years, but have always been reticent about voicing it, for similar reason as described here. The problem is not femininity itself - the problem is the fixed association with social gender and biological sex. I always considered feminism to be about allowing women (and men) the freedom to define themselves - and that includes being feminine. I could go off on a tirade about about gender here (read Judith Butler if you want that !) but for me, 'masculinity' and 'femininity' are, as much as anything, ontologies - ways of being in the (social) world, It's high time we all had a lot more freedom in that respect,.
9
Gisele Bundchen and numerous other models and actresses known for their beauty always say, "I was a tomboy growing up." People are free to change, people get "discovered", people discover sports, clothing, make up, etc. The problem is labeling children at a young age and make them feel that is their destiny rather than expose them to various things.
8
I love the bold colors and beautiful fabrics some African-Americans wear. And I also love the advertisements that show diverse beauty and joy. My problem with princesses is that too many of them are white as well as golden-haired and blue-eyes. I hope that princesses will become as diverse as the world's people. I also hope that boys and men will be allowed beautiful fabrics and ornaments. If you look at the portrait of Henry VIII you see a very very ornamented male. On the other hand I do believe that all people deserve comfortable functional clothes.
High heels are not functional. Clothing that promises to fall off when you move is not functional. Too much jewelry compromises function.
9
@memosyne
This comment confuses me - history and the world are full of diverse princesses - it is not a purely European creation.
I went through tomboy and girlie girl phases.
The troubling thing about girlie girl stuff is so much is literally unhealthy. Look at the deformed feet of older women who wore high heels for much of their lives, such as my mom and my aunts. A few women who have longer feet can manage a little better but humans aren't built to walk on the ball of their feet.
Makeup is another issue. How healthy is that lipstick your daughter consuming with everything she eats?
Yes, I know dangerous things are all around us but shouldn't we avoid the ones we don't really need.
10
@Lynn
"need" is subjective.
If you choose to avoid make-up, colouring your hair, high heels, baubles and bangles.....that is your personal right.
But MYOB when I decide to partake. Who is anyone to stand in judgement on how I care to dress and present myself to the world?
Eschewing these things doesn't make anyone superior....just someone with different tastes.
@ MBL
Why are you so defensive? I'm not standing in judgement. If you want to take chances with your health, do it.
I'm suggesting that allowing children to wear lipstick and high heels may be a poor health choice on the part of their parents.
Why can't we stop over analyzing? I think allowing her daughter to experiment is great as she she allowed her older daughter to follow her sports desires. That's it. Nothing more, we are all different. What is makeup? it's to make a woman look more desirable, and I suppose it's on many women's DNA. What is a woman like Angela Jolie labeled? Kids go through phases also.
11
Blame it on gender genetics as deep in the DNA are social biology tendencies that become propensities during gestation. The human is a simply expression of the genetic wheel-of-fortune regarding the mix of the primordial soup between the conceiving parents. Nothing to be done except watch and marvel as little people become completely baked at adulthood (to repeat the same parenting mistakes).
4
@terry brady Great point. Nature is the structure, nurture is the paint job, at best. Funny how much parents think they can affect kids choices, gender or otherwise. Their genes were a million years in the making. Current gender attitudes have been around about 5 years.
2
@terry brady
...which is why the feminine ideal, from 4000 BC through the Renaissance to now, from Papua New Guinea to the Greater Antilles to Silicon Valley, has consistently, across the board, looked like...
a Barbie doll?!?
Don't you think culture might have just a little something to do with it?
3
@terry brady
But look: you alt-righters can't have it both ways. You can't pretend to be all Ph.D.s in human biology one day and then ignore the overwhelming evidence pointing to anthropogenic climate change the next day.
Either the scientists are serious and respectable people or they are liberal double agents -- they can't be both.
My daughter was a girly girl. I was and still am a tomboy. As a mother I felt inadequate trying to raise a girl who liked dresses, make-up, doing her hair and eventually clothes that I felt were way too suggestive. I was fine with light lipstick (colored lipgloss) at 6 but not with red lipstick at 12. Her father, my husband, wasn't happy with that either. My thought now is that as a society we push children to grow up way too soon.
17
@underwater44
couldnt agree more.. youthful innocence in America is something to be deleted asap.
I don't think anyone would describe me as a girly-girl, but my most oldest cousin let me play with her lipstick as a girl, and that forever sealed her status as my favorite cousin. But as a large-framed, intelligent, loud-spoken girl who chased and kicked the boys on the playground, I was far from the feminine prototype. And I paid for it throughout my adolescence with consistent slings against my non-conformity and unattractiveness. The girly-girls and I had virtually no over-lap.
Now, as a large-framed, intelligent, soft-spoken woman (lived in England for a while and learned to throttle down), I no longer kick the boys. I keep a small farm, and most of the time live in mis-matched barn clothes, cycling through a small wardrobe of favorite jeans and old shirts. Some days I forget to brush my hair. But when it's time to leave the farm, I fluff up my well-cut hair, apply just enough makeup to brighten my face (always lipstick), put on figure-showing dresses and skirts and head on out. I don't think of this girly-girl activity as my core identity, but it is fun to feel attractive and saucy - and statuesque and strong at the same time.
26
When I raised my two girls, I also was concerned about their fascination with playing with Barbies. My concern went away when I eavesdropped on their play one day-- they had tied their Ken doll (whose legs had been ripped off) to the stair post, and two Barbies were swooping in (with capes!) to rescue them.
So I say, let them play with whatever they want. Just provide them a strong female role model!
23
Thank you so much for this! In my super leftie bubble, I used to feel embarrassed and apologetic by how gender conforming my daughter is. She loves pink and princesses and I routinely felt I had to say no to tutus or princess dresses outside the house, while my friends let their boys wear pink and princess dresses as a badge of honor. But I had the same feelings you did and as I tell my husband, no one should be in the business of telling a woman (or girl, or anyone) what they should wear. It’s oppressive. I agree with the comments that consider the sexualization of some forms of femininity but also wonder, what are we so afraid of? Why is femininity bad? Is it a pendulum that has swung too far afield? Or is is just a new insidious way to negate femininity?
11
I am a left liberal old school feminist of the 70's. When I was young, I used to think it was borderline abusive to allow preschool girls to wear stuff like fishnet stockings and paten leather shoes, for all the typical reasons.
Then I had a set of identical girl twins. Soon I realized that it would be borderline abusive to deny them all pink and purple, and the most feminine of apparel.
They are adults now, well dressed, well educated, hard working and sure of who they are as women. Just as I am, having been a tomboy all my childhood and continuing to eschew makeup, hair dye and most jewelry, not to mention skirts, dresses, stockings and fancy shoes.
Sometimes we just concentrate for moments at a time on the wrong things. But in the meanwhile we are doing all the right things in our general teaching of both girls and boys.
12
The reason you feel uncomfortable with expressions of femininity is because so many of them are about sexualization and sexual attraction (think make-up, alarming waist-hip-chest ratios of Barbies) whereas in so many cases, expressions of masculinity are about ability and capability. Sometimes my daughter watches me put makeup on in the morning before work, and she asks why I do that. My answer, increasingly, is "I don't know why." Why am a putting various colored pastes on my face in order to go to work. Femininity?
48
@Rea Mackay
Good post. Ive never worn makeup and I’m 58 now and the eyebrows are beginning to gray. I dye my hair but I always have since I was fully gray headed at 24 (somehow not the eyebrows though). Anyway I look fine and you will too. It makes the point that I’m not dressing to please the men, and I’m an engineer so, they’re almost all men.
5
@Nancy Rockford
I'm an engineer and have worked in primarily male teams for a long, long time. The people I work with are just that, co-workers, fellow team members. I've never gotten the impression that they cared whether I word heels or makeup. Just as I don't care if they wear button down oxfords or t-shirts.
I wear heels, make up, highlight my hair, wear jewelry and make no mistake about it, I've never dress for anyone but the person in the mirror.
1
my sister tells the story of her young son wanting a cap pistol or some resemblance of a gun when he was about six or so. Not in her household she thought trying to advance a generation free of such weapons. A few weeks later after having been told he lived in a gun free zone, he chewed his pancake into the shape of a gun. They gave him a soft edged sword.
8
I would argue that lipstick on a 6 years-old is not shocking from the point of view of femininity, but age. Like high heels and beauty contests, I don't think it fits such a young age.
37
@John The reason you think that is because lipstick is about sexualization, like so many markers of "femininity". So really it is also about femininity, not just age.
1
@John Good luck trying to sell that in the South.
Let's not forget that other than the human species, there are other animal species (although I can't think of other primates) that use decoration to attract mates, whether that's a male bird born with beautiful feathers, or making a beautiful nest, or a fish that carefully creates a symmetric watery depression to attract females to lay their fish eggs there. It seems that beautifying, designing appearance, is a thing in nature and in human nature. To do with reproduction. Some people believe human reproduction should be revered and others debase people with kids as "breeders". For those who have a propensity (most likely biological) for this, wearing makeup and making oneself sexually attractive will never go away and it starts young. It seems to me that femininity has a negative stigma because the result of successful decorating and beautifying for biological females (for 99% of human history) is pregnancy and pregnancy means children which means responsibility and pressure on communities to provide, and so it is not just a frivolous game that girls engage in.
13
I can relate to the content of this article. I spent my adolescence being encouraged by multiple groups (teachers, relatives) to ‘stop speaking in my girlish voice’ and to be less shy and more assertive. As an adult looking back, I know now that women’s deepening of our voices is associated with laryngitis. I also see that many of the situations I was encouraged to be more forthright in were situations in which I felt shy probably out of eons old inherited modesty.
Some modern people — feminists, parents keen to have their daughters succeed in business and be independent in love — encourage male standards of behaviour because they think it will be freeing. For some girls this leads to feeling rejected instead. In other situations it is actually dangerous, as when girls are taught to ignore their instincts. I think some of the problems women experience in #metoo can be traced back to ‘70s and ‘80s parents relentlessly pushing girls to get over their “shyness” and act like one of the team.
-
The trans issue is entirely different. Trans men are no threat to anyone. Trans women are. They are a threat to women in change rooms and prisons. They have the potential to preclude natal women from ever competing again in traditional women’s sports. They have threatened women who disagree with them (see “terf”s).
Women deserve to be accepted for who we are, and to have our needs accommodated, with politics interfering.
26
Opps. Last line should read “without politics interfering.’
The author is confusing the *enjoyment* of makeup and "pretty" things with the tendency among some little girls to *replace* real hobbies and activities (whether sports, arts, or any other developmental pursuit) with excessive focus on personal appearance and vanity.
When I was growing up, the little girls whose *only* interests as children were makeup, hair, appearance, and fashion turned into teenage girls who had developed few talents or interests *other* than makeup, hair, appearance, and, of course, boyfriends.
38
Probably true for some -- but as a teacher I got used to being surprised how kids turned out. Some girls whose obsession with grooming themselves led them to spend more time than they should in the bathroom -- not the healthiest spot in a school, believe me -- nevertheless went on to high school and college and became physicians and bankers.
Being hall monitor during lunchtime is bore, but one does see things that shed a light on young humanity.
13
I was a "tomboy" as a child - mostly because I loved being outdoors, which I still do. I loved sports and was good at them - and I still love being active. Fortunately, my parents never thought that it was a problem, and let me find for myself where my interests were. My sister was quieter, and like playing with dolls inside - that was also fine. Instead of worrying about gender stereotypes, maybe we should just let children discover themselves where their interests are.
58
@Sally of course- but there are still difficulties at the margins, where interests meet resistance or appear excessive. Your point is quite as revolutionary as the article writer's.
I, as a powerful woman, see a big problem with rendering anything feminine as bad. It is actually unbelievable to me. Feminine is neither good nor bad, it simply is. The same with masculinity. Only when we give all the power to the masculine it becomes a problem to be not seen as masculine. Besides, what IS masculine? What is feminine? I celebrate my feminine curves. No different, I hazard, than a man can celebrate his body's hard planes. Accept both sides of our human spectrum as a fact that makes us human. Personally, I am woman, I am life.
27
@Artemis What makes you powerful?
I could not disagree more.
I see my role as a parent as providing opportunities for my daughter's growth and preparing her for the future. While I don't have a big problem with her being whatever-the-current-notion-of-feminine-is, I don't see "makeup time" as effective as legos, board games, drawing, music, discussion, daydreaming, imaginative play, sports, or even video games in accomplishing my responsibilities.
I'm not trying to masculinize her, I'm trying to prepare her for a future in which women are equal to men.
My daughter gets plenty of lessons about being feminine from her school friends whose parents load them up with barbies and pink and princess dresses, including the notion that she should be: quiet, polite, docile, cute, fragile, superficial, afraid of the natural world, willing to let boys take charge, and naive. It would be wrong for me or anyone else to reinforce those values.
64
@Josh Wilson I think part of what Davis is saying is that "girlie" interests like makeup do NOT necessarily need to be associated with the traits you list in your last paragraph (quiet, fragile, etc.). My ten-year-old daughter LOVES makeup and fashion, yet also plays roller derby, swims, speaks her mind to anyone who will listen (and some who won't), is fascinated by politics and history, and has friends who are both boys and girls.
20
@Josh Wilson I like your post! Never thought of it that way. Thank you.
1
If makeup is such a "fun and creative form of self-expression", we should see a lot more boys using it. I wish we did.
23
Whatever happened to allowing a child to express herself (and himself) in the ways she chooses? I have been a Feminist my entire adult life. I am a political activist who was extremely active in making abortion legal, and later, in publicizing that domestic violence exists, and passing laws to help the victims.
I fully allowed, and supported, my daughter in her interest in applying makeup and doing hair. I also taught her to stand up for herself, and that she could do Anything she wanted. It is the latter that we should emphasize teaching our children. Most of all, we should teach them to pursue what each of them wants to. Otherwise, we keep them in rigid paradigms, that either makeup is 'mandatory' (the 1950's), or is 'prohibitive', and children are taught not to think for themselves.
29
@Resharpen: thank you! I too am a feminist who has raised two strong daughters, making very conscious choices about their schooling and activities to expand their world, not constrict it. The oldest is a multi-skilled theater artist, onstage and backstage, and very outspokenly liberal, with particular focus on equity related to gender and sexuality. She is also a gifted makeup artist, both for theatrical purposes and for fun. She is head-turning beautiful by any standard without any makeup on at all. She and her equally brilliant though less outspoken sister enjoy wearing makeup when and where they choose. They remain brilliant, interesting, independent, strong young women, who reject being constrained by others' "rigid paradigms."
5
@Resharpen Choices aren't made in a vacuum. It's admirable to make your children consider whether a choice is coming from a healthy place, or, if young enough, impose a choice.
I don't know. This opinion piece raises more conundrums and paradoxes than provides answers, like:
- why is it that there are things girls are considered "too young" to wear---e.g. heels, makeup, bikini bathing suits---but I can't think of an equivalent for boys?
- why is it that many of the commenters here that talk about their gender-fluid aesthetic seem to be women?
- why are all the articles that discuss the confusion and frustrations of their child's gender fluidity women?
- why is there a term "girly" but not "boy-y"?
It's these questions that convince me we're really overthinking this gender thing. Like the other day I saw a four year-old boy wearing red sweatpants, a Colin Kaepernick football jersey and a pink tutu. He wore it well.
33
@Papaya
Why is it that there are things girls are considered "too young" to wear---e.g. heels, makeup, bikini bathing suits---but I can't think of an equivalent for boys?
The answer to this is obvious, isn't it? Feminization is sexualization.
85
@Papaya
Just one caveat: high heels are destructive to feet. Don't let your kid wear them whether a boy or a girl. Make them wait until their feet are at least mature.
2
MF, Agreed, it seemed obvious before the author wrote this the article. She’s suggesting that lipstick is on the same level as playing baseball. She says that lipstick and pink and ballet unfairly maligned. Would she let her 6 year-old wear a bustier, fishnet stockings and suspenders? She’s totally conflates all gender issues into a simplistic argument.
“The problem is not lipstick. The problem is the way we devalue anything that’s associated with women and girls.”
And the source of that devaluation, in any context relevant to conditions which affect the world today, are hegemonic manifestations of our extant “Judaeo-Christian” empire.
Consequently, lipstick is still part of the problem, just not in the way that anyone arguing for the right to free expression believes. This is a very old game that’s being played, and far too many people are still under the impression that civilization didn’t begin until the Bible existed.
7
Oy vey, since I’m old enough to have grandkids in elementary school (although my children are only in their 20’s), I am kind of shocked to read this from a woman of the generation after mine!
My daughter may have been influenced by my obvious enjoyment of feminine clothing and makeup, and was also happy to play intramural sports with other girls. (My husband and I both lack the competitive sports gene.).
My son decided to take dance in elementary school because he was aware it was something his older sister enjoyed. I got grief from colleagues (despite their daughters’ enrollment in various sports.). My son stopped ballet after 3rd grade because of social pressure from classmates. He was one of only 2 Anglo-American boys in his year of ballet. The majority were first generation or immigrant sons of Asian and Russian parents.
My son still occasionally drops in to adult barre class. He came to realize how great it is for posture, unlike some of the other active pursuits he enjoys.
He and his girlfriend both enjoy attending the ballet as audience members. We are very pleased when we see male dancers from his former studio who are now performing professionally.
Vive l difference.
38
I went to a California high school where nerdy girls were marginalized while cheerleaders and homecoming princesses, the girliest girls, were idolized. However, they were not taken that seriously when it came to academics. You bring up interesting questions that persist now in my professional life about the expression of femininity.
15
Outside the strange world of Texan child beauty pageants, most of us admire courage, grit and determination not because these qualities are masculine but because they are, well, admirable.
Cowardice and weakness are not admirable. With the exception of Trumpites, we don't admire the craven hearted any more than we admire fools or knaves.
Lucy and Jill in the Narnia stories are admirable not because they are are tomboys but because they are brave, passionate and idealistic. The greatest tragedy is when Susan, a great archer and warrior when she was young, grows up and insists that Narnia doesn't exist, because she has become obsessed with the materialistic and superficial trappings of adolescence.
48
@Colenso: as a fellow Narnia fan, I was always troubled by what I've now learned is actually called "the problem of Susan", named after a story by Neil Gaiman, which authors like J.K. Rowling and Philip Pullman have identified as Susan's character being exiled from Narnia because she discovers sex. I just always thought it was so harsh that she couldn't have both lipstick AND Narnia, although I shared Lewis' disapproval of being "conceited and silly." With all his virtues, C.S. Lewis knew very little about girls or women and came of age in a culture that had little regard for them. Lucy and Jill were and are wonderful characters, but he really wasn't fair to poor Susan.
Ironically, in the recent movies about Narnia, ALL the actors playing the Pevensies, boys and girls, have luscious, pouty lips that seem to have been emphasized by makeup! GO figure.
5
This article provides even more reasons to broaden the spectrum and stretch the boundaries of gender. When boys and girls have much less confining roles, toys, colors, expectations, role models, media, tennis shoes, and hair accessories,
we
reduce
all
gender
bias.
8
Trust me, it's only, as you say,*some* people who are congratulatory about a gender non-conforming girl. Even in progressive, liberal CA, girls are teased for having cropped hair styles and wearing loose, darker colored pants and crew-neck t-shirts with dinosaurs rather than fairies or flowers on it.
Parents of girly-girls, no need to worry -- your daughters still end up being the "popular" ones. Just please, teach them not to be so judgy of the girls (and boys) who do things differently. And parents of boys, please teach your boys not just that pink lace is not leprosy but also that preferring short hair or flannel shirts or long basketball shorts does not mean a girl isn't or wouldn't be romantically interested in boys. And, of course teach them that if a girl isn't interested in boys, that's still no reason to demean or defame her.
The worry about girls being allowed to be girly is the worry of women with too much time on their hands and too small an understanding of feminism -- which largely says: Be who you are (assuming you're honest and of good faith and don't keep people down just because of the shape or size or color or other aspect of their bodies).
32
I raised two daughters from infancy to adulthood. My wife, Susan' had feminist angst when our daughters went for Barbies, but the moms of our kids' playmates thought nothing of it, and in fact, hosted Barbie parties where clothing was traded or discarded; Barbie hair was cut and styled, and the Ken doll never made an appearance. Had he been there, very likely Ken's head would have been lost down among the couch cushions. It's part of training for life, and Barbie and her cohort are better role models for living and getting all g with others than the stuff that little boys play with nowadays.
8
Ms. Davis, you must be familiar with the term must. What you'd like me to think and do isn't always what I shall. I have acted and will continue to act in ways that seem likely to make children grow up to have children of their own. Should some of them find another path, so be it.
2
The slow realization that what many of us women took for feminism - that it is in fact internalized misogyny - is a common journey for many women, myself included. The rejection of feminine traits and dismissal of women in general while asserting "I am the different one" is a easy trap to fall into. I would take it further and suggest it's not just embracing traditional female habits like makeup that draw widespread cultural derision. Rather it's women thinking and making decisions for themselves without consulting the viewpoints of men that is rejected so harshly.
28
@Max
You mistook the rejection of feminine as being feminist; that was your mistake. You rejected feminism because you erroneously understood it to be averse to feminine, which it is not -- unless you consider "feminine" to mean non-selfdetermining.
1
I have so enjoyed watching my children, a boy and a girl, explore their self image, power and beauty, and to a much lesser degree--their gender, through clothes, make up, jewelry, and nail polish. Through this lens, it is less angst ridden for me but not without its landmines. When puberty hit, I had to have frank conversations with my daughter about women's fashion, sexualization of her body, and marketing. Unfortunately, there is a through-line from those early years of dress up and fushia lipstick, to adolescent anxiety about appearance and the exploitative marketing of and to young women. But we don't have to lay that at our children's feet at an early age.
5
Land mines, really? Just tell it like it is, and don’t wait until the kid hits puberty. If you do wait, you may have to explain to your pre-teen daughter (or son) why she can’t wear halter tops and high heels anymore. A little social commentary and discussion at teachable moments along the way (starting when kids are toddlers) goes a long way.
5
@Mom 500 Trust me, I have done alot of social commentary and frank explanation of things throughout their lives but I worry about allowing my kids to just enjoy things, explore things, and just learn about things on their own time. The landmines I refer to are trying to let them be children even though some of the stuff that they are exposed to and marketed to make me horrified.
People should always be free to express themselves naturally, but what is presented as stereo-typically 'masculine' is also typically more subdued and durable, both traits that have inherit value in any culture.
6
In my childhood I was tomboy and girl as needed. We played with dolls and decided who would be who in the pretend family. If no one was available to be "the father," I'd enjoy that role and called myself Johnny, after my deceased little brother. In that late 50"s era playing with my boy neighbor's western town having tiny cowboys and Indians was a favorite memory. We made horse sounds as our little guys road through rocky walls in New England.
As an adult, eventually a single parent of three, I believe my indoctrination of both genders (in childhood) prepared me for two roles, for my children. I did it well. Two are gay and one not. It's all okay.
6
Seriously, is there anything more compelling than a princess? She is beautiful; wears sparkling, colorful garb; and commands plenty of attention and even power in those favorite tales.
That may be why my son, when young, adored the Disney princesses, wanted to be one, dressed like one when he could, and got a special audience with them when we visited Disneyland.
I was happy to indulge his passion, just as I have been happy to indulge his subsequent passions for pokeman, bakugan, trucks, trains, nerf guns, skateboarding, snowboarding, and (alas) the ever-constant shoot-em-up video games ....
Today he is a typical teen boy with an active social life and close friends among both genders. Or perhaps he's not so typical after all, as his friendships with girls are as close and strong as those he enjoys with other boys.
Could that be because no one ever taught him to look down on things feminine?
40
@Marty
When our youngest was in childcare/kindy, she was one of a trio of best friends.
We were all delighted when the staff gave each set of parents a photo of the three 4 yr olds on dress-up day. Two beaming girls dressed up in high heels and trailing far-too-big skirts - between them the bride, veil and all, their best boy friend, Sam, also beaming. Loved it. Such fun.
10
I wore a Joe Namath sweatshirt, with a pixie haircut that my dad gave me, most of 2nd or 3rd grade, and I also treasured the dress I got every year for the first day of school. I played baseball before our town had girls softball, and I asked Santa for a doll each Christmas. Eight is still my lucky number, because that was the number that the teacher was thinking of when he was picking kickball captains at recess, and I loved the easybake oven we played with on rainy days. We fished in the swamp with my sneakers, not sure what for, and we tried our best to cook grape jelly with the concord grapes we picked at the edge of the swamp.
But makeup and high heels, or making a big fuss over how masculine or feminine my activities were? No - that was off limits until we were old enough, because first and foremost, my parents made sure that we knew we were kids. That's not denying or promoting femininity or tomboyishness - that was just great parenting.
Thanks, Mom and Dad! Love you both!!
33
As for the six year olds: they're kids.
The real question is: what can we do to help parents who spend so much time batting around gender labels and anti-stereotype stereotypes in their heads, worrying about the male gaze, elevated prestige, the meaning of femininity and the malignity of unexamined associations?
Hug the kids, read to them, keep them clean and healthy, be patient with their socialization -- most of all, enjoy their innocence. Natural development takes care of the rest.
33
Thank you, Lisa.
I have never understood why it’s acceptable for my daughter to wield a hammer while wearing coveralls but I might need a psychiatrist for my son if he prefers make up and a dress. Actually, both my husband and son look lovely in full Scottish regalia, kilts and all.
18
I'm certain your family is exceptional; but, I've never seen anyone who didn't look lovely in full Scottish regalia. :)
Provided that the kids aren’t hurting themselves or others, let the do what they want. Adults have much bigger fish to fry like whether kids will have clean air to breath or clean water to drink in 5 or 10 years.
29
I feel that makeup has an expressive value but at the same time it does in our contemporary society have a decorative function. I'm not sure if that equates to sexualizing a woman's body but it isn't purely expressive or creative. On the other hand, the ideal of women's dressing modestly has been interpreted to give men carte blanche in relating to women as objects. On the one hand modest dress shows formality, professionalism, courtesy - or at least that's what it expresses in certain contexts. It shows one's respect for one's environment and setting enough to present yourself well and as a person more than appearance based self presentation style. On the other, there is this fun creative side to self adornment that the author mentions. Really we all participate in fashion every day so there's no need to see women who don't wear makeup as un-feminine. It's becoming more conscious about those choices that shows one's personal style. But we shouldn't think not wearing makeup means a woman is uninterested in fashion or less feminine. I think the article conflates those things a little bit.
4
Barbies are a terrific vehicle for teaching (sounds like your daughter likes them and will be more engaged as a result). My daughter and I spent long afternoons having our Barbies interact and do various things -- hers always wanted to get married, mine were accomplished ladies who questioned why we had to wear big dresses that didn't let us run fast. Just keep talking to your daughter, let her express herself and explore her interests and indulgences, but *keep giving her an alternative narrative* -- she hears you, even if her Barbies don't.
8
@Sass
One summer, at our cottage, the Barbies got married to the ninja turtles. My son and daughter continued the saga all summer
29
Per the article title, the issue is not sexism – it’s likism.
Likism privileges personal preference over social conformity. And while likism is commonly confused with political correctness, the two are distinct: likism balances personal preference with respect for things outside one’s preferential profile.
As a straight male I’ve always preferred androgyny over gender, and in turn gender over gender cartoons. But I believe in diversity. And that diversity remains for most a largely unpacked box.
3
@Observer Oh, please. "Likism"? Yet another sociological/anthropological buzzword I'd rather not have known.
Almost fifty-five years ago I remember the summery day when my then best friend and next door neighbor, Patty, also seven years old, declared she didn't want to wrestle with me on the grass any more. Instead, she she said, she wanted to play with dolls with another girl down the street. She said it with such finality that I found myself heart-broken and bewildered by her decision. But I was stuck with it, as well as the loss of her as a friend.
Parents can influence their kids, sure. But rejection of one's nongirlie side by an alleged friend at an early age can be even more hurtful.
15
"Why are some of us so disapproving of feminine girls..."
I think it has to do with the roles feminine girls play as grown ups, which is the weaker, submissive one in the male/female dynamic. So when a daughter seeks to act out as a 'feminine girl' it can feel uncomfortable to parents who are feminist.
"...and so approving of masculine ones"
Because the concept of 'masculine' represents the stronger, dominant role, which is in-line with feminist ideology.
10
Thank you for this. I have a seven year old girl who enjoys expressing herself through lipstick, fashion (dresses, high heels) etc. She also enjoys climbing tall trees, riding a mountain bike, and playing in the mud. The one feedback I would give on the content of the article - I don't consider lipstick or makeup to be "sexualizing" when a child wears it (boy or girl). A child is a child regardless of what they are wearing. If adults are uncomfortable with a child wearing makeup yes IN PUBLIC then that sounds like that adult's personal issue. (Maybe a trip to therapy or further introspection for that adult is in order.) A child should not be considered "sexualized" regardless of what they are wearing on their faces or how they are dressed. This line of thinking is consistent with blaming girls for being assaulted based on how they are dressed.
25
@Kate N.
If a child truly chooses, makes informed choices, has sufficient capacity and competence to choose wisely, then I would agree.
Let's escape for a moment, however, from the narrow perspective of white, middle-class, first-world privilege.
Many young girls (and young boys) don't choose. They don't have choices over anything. Girls don't choose to have their clitorises removed. They don't choose to have their ears pieced. They don't choose their future husbands. They don't choose to be dressed up in dresses, their nails painted, eyes kohled, eye lashes covered in mascara. They don't choose to leave school, and get pregnant whilst still in their teens.
These choices are made for them by their parents and elders, traditionally often by powerful matriarchs in their family, clan and tribe.
9
Please. Get real. I’m a liberal woman that’s very supportive of women’s causes & aware of women’s issues especially involving sexual assault & the blame that can even be transferred to 7yo girl victims just for being female.
But I’m not going to play the game that makes even the most supportive of individuals the enemy.
This is just the kind of extreme talk that gets women’s advocates completely dismissed. And for good reason.
Once I think something is sounding PC - then it’s really sad.
A thigh high skirt or dress for a female of ANY age is sexualizing.
What normal child or woman would truly enjoy wearing something like that if the point wasn’t outsided attention to their appearance?
There is never any excuse for a woman to be sexually assaulted.
But it is absurd for a woman to claim that walking around essentially bare-breasted, especially showing off massive implants, isn’t sexualized behavior.
Women do it in particular because it sells; some women have no choice or feel they have little choice. Others make more money.
It helps buys the likes of women like Anna-Nicole Smith wealthy husbands. Skimpy outfits certainly help music sales for certain female singers. Many actresses raise their profiles & profits especially with male audiences with provocative photo shoots.
Once we stop denying reality we lose all credibility & are little better than the likes of Trump.
1
@Kate N. Seriously, it's not creepy when a seven-year-old boy likes to wear lipstick?
I am sympathetic to the writer as I have similar reactions to femininity and always thought I would struggle if I had a child who responded positively to those things. Self-examination is good, but I don't think we can simply say we should consider it a benign choice. When a child chooses stereotypic feminine choices, what story is going through that child's head? Our culture has some crazy messages. Nothing is just a neutral choice in this gender-obsessed culture. None of us at any age is immune to those messages and images. Hopefully kids get to explore and not just have one "self" to get pigeon-holed into.
7
I don't understand why this is even being discussed. The younger generation seems to be fixated on gender which even older generations got over a long time ago. Why is it they feel the need to put a label on anybody? I grew up a tomboy, but I wear dresses and lipstick, I like being sexy. I will get dirt under my fingernails in the garden, and then get cleaned up and go to the museum. Facts are, there are no specific guidelines to either femininity or masculinity, and we can wear many different hats on a given day. Quit trying to put the square peg in a round hole, and get over it.
157
@Valerie Wells Hear, hear! Get over it, indeed. We all have many facets. Let's enjoy them all.
I want to add that it's delightful to see you used the term "tomboy," (simple, robust, descriptive) rather than "gender non-conforming girl" (priggish, pompous, and just too, too PC).
12
Very well put.
6
@Valerie Wells with all due respect, your generation did not "get over" gender. This generation is exploring and foraging ways to express gender that y'all never considered. Being transgender wasn't even an understood concept in American society several decades ago. People lived their lives entirely as an other gender than the one they were assigned, yet were considered crossdressers or drag kings/queens. Times are changing tremendously and thinking about how we characterize gender is a positive shift towards understanding humans as social beings. We cannot overcome misogyny and inequality without examining gender.
3
Yes, yes, yes. This has been an issue for many years now. Why are political women trying to be more like men? Stop it. We don’t need women who vote like men, a la Susan Collins, we need women who vote like women. We need to value feminism along with masculinity, Both have a lot to offer us. We need women to rescue us from crazed men and women, who think Trump is good. Femininity is just as important as masculinity. The yin and the yang are equally powerful. Both should be equally admired.
14
@David Gifford I agree. And also both are complicated subjects since we as humans are complicated and intricate and our identities are continuously evolving and changing.
I think the issue with regard to letting young girls wear makeup is complicated because in some contexts it's not appropriate for a young girl to wear makeup. If it's for a specific purpose like performing in a play or a ballet that's different but let us say in an academic school, there is a reason some private schools have uniforms. The school sets a certain standard of dress for the sake of the community and creating a sense of shared standards. So in certain contexts shared norms can be a good thing, and maybe make the school less cliquish.
4
@David Gifford
I want senators who vote for the things the majority of their constituents want
1
As mother of two daughters, and someone who was a tomboy in my teens and very girlie in my late twenties, I firmly believe the issue is one of choice, not which stereotype to embrace. I tell my 6-yr-old that Barbie dolls look sick but certainly allow dolls with healthier BMIs to enter her life. Same for makeup (you can wear it if you do a good job cleaning up after). My husband struggled when my daughter rejected our gender-neutral mixed wear choices for girlie and pink. I had to remind him that being feminine does not contradict being strong. I also embraced the strong femininity celebrated in my Hindu roots (warrior goddess charging towards victory on a lion, etc.) as good story role models, while commenting that a billowing saree may not be the best fashion choice for throwing a spear. But then so are capes. At this point, I think my older daughter has a healthy relationship with her femininity (or lack thereof), she chose to pierce her ears and then chose to close them up. So long as freedom to choose wisely is the beacon, I follow it.
10
Wished to add an anecdote. My daughter got a vampire barbie as a present. It led to some deep discussions on how only drinking blood got the poor doll so sickly thin, and that she should add more food groups to her diet. As they say.. make lemonade.
1
@illinoisgirlgeek As a fellow Hindu, I'm sure you know that Durga is typically not represented as wearing a 6-yards saree of the kind you see women in India wearing now. She wears a dhoti-like bottom and is bare breasted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahishasura#/media/File:Durga_slaying_buffalo_composite,_2nd-century_to_13th-century_Devi_Mahatmya.png
If you look at the old statues and idols (11th/12th century), even Parvati, who is the serene face of the Devi wears a dhoti-like bottom.
I think that the 6-yards saree is actually a pretty recent phenomenon, and I am not sure why it is so popular (maybe bollywood?).
Both my grandmothers wore 9 yard sarees (dhoti bottom, tucked in pallu on top) until they died and Kohli fisherwomen still do... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasta_sari
You've got a long way to go in raising kids, especially girls. Keep on thinking!
11
@Farley Morris. Wow. This comment sounded quite judgmental to me. I don’t think that’s conducive to an honest and helpful exchange of ideas.
11
It is judgemental, indeed! I meant it that way. Angsting about where the needle sits on a child’s gender-image dial is plain wrong. And feminists, both men and women, don’t realize how trivial they have been until it’s too late.
1
@Orjof
Judgemental perhaps, but completely honest and true!
online abstractions distract us from who is physically in front of us. In cranky family holiday season, we navigate the holiday dinner, the awkward outing, and make connections, without every demanding a complete essay of opinions on line. Turn off, Tune out, and go and knock on a door, and make connections with them in person, even if they have mean, half baked, or ideas that are not like yours.
4
This puts into words nicely what I’ve always felt about our society’s view of women and femininity, which is, after all, a largely social construct that’s used to divide, alienate and control women.
9
Girls are ‘allowed’ to be tomboys, even praised for it as this article notes, until puberty hits and runs. After that, the women who remain Tomboys are given a whole new set of labels, and not one of them is positive.
Then there are the boys. Boys are never allowed to enact female roles, including crying, once they leave the toddler stage. And at that young stage, they still don’t ‘cry’. They have tantrums. Their tears have to be led by anger or frustration. As tears often are, for us all.
44
@David BitTorrent
“Boys are never allowed to enact female roles, including crying”
Crying is not a “female role”, it is a human reaction.
I think that you (and the author) should ponder why you think crying is feminine in the first place.
2
How about letting the kids decide what they want and not overthink this? They are kids. We are placing our fears and/or prejudices on them. Either they will like something or not. I know I did. Let the options be all encompassing and stop second guessing what something a child likes means.
50
Is it possible that we favor Tom Boys over Girly Girls because we're overcompensating for past prejudices an stereotypes by celebrating the non-traditional and rejecting the traditional. Why do I get the sense that some of the same people who would balk at letting their six year old daughters wear lipstick, would not only accept it in their sons, but pat themselves on the back for being so open-minded. Which is great. But open minded people should be open to kids who are boringly traditional as well as boldly iconoclastic.
83
As a dad and grandpa, please love and indulge your kids for who they each are as individuals, their own gifts, their own hopes and joys and jettison altogether needless worries of what your left or right leaning neighbor or your sister might think. Teach your beautiful kids to expand curiosity and to love arts and learning and activities with other kids and above all, indulge each child with love and help her to develop as she is internally built. Each child will guide the way, but at the center of it is love.
82
@Armand Beede Beautifully said, thank you.
1
There are underlying issues here that remind unexamined. The most important is why she likes pink sparkles.
--has she internalized that a girl is supposed to look a certain way to gain acceptance and praise? That's problematic.
--has she internalized that a girl is only supposed to do certain types of things and not others? That's problematic.
--has she internalized that girls are to be acted upon, and not be actors themselves? That's problematic.
--and where did she learn about pink sparkles? What kind of media is she consuming? Is she staring at Kardashians all day? Is she trying to conform to peers? That's problematic.
So if she "just" likes pink sparkles, that's fine. But I'd do the checklist above, too.
And no, just take the lipstick away. You as her parent have that right. Tell her she can have it back when she's 16.
87
@Good Reason How utterly joyless this and several other comments are. I live in a totally progressive town and have been living an unconventional life practically since the day I was born. Yet at three years old, my young grandson adored playing with sticks and visiting the firehouse and the police station. At the same age, my granddaughter gravitated to all things pretty and pink and talked nonstop about wanting to meet Cinderella. I never gave it much thought, nor did I impose all sorts of rigid rules on them. Instead I tried to give them lots of love and guidance, and to make things fun and interesting for them. I'm concerned that we are overthinking this to such an extent that we are going to make these kids lives even more confining and unhappy. Let them explore what they want to explore; if a six year old wants to put a touch of colorful lipstick on their lips, I don't really think it's cause for major alarm.
29
@Good Reason - You used the word "problematic" so many times in your comment that it is problematic. This ugly, bureaucratic word, "problematic", that is so loved by a certain type of people, is not only condescending and judgmental but expresses the firm conviction - on what basis, I never found out - that the person who uses this word is somehow a superior being with the authority to decide what is "problematic" and what is not. Who exactly are you, again, that you are the judge and arbiter of all these things?
14
@Ohcolowisc Spot on! Thank you for your articulate summary of overuse of the silly term "problematic."
2
"The friend who questioned my lipstick latitude and I had a lovely exchange afterward. Makeup is complicated,"
Whoever thought makeup could be so complicated? Much more important than dealing with schoolwork, athletics, kindness, friendship and all the other topics that just aren't as
fashionable right now as gender identity.
61
Ms Davis wrote a thought-provoking article; I appreciate it. The headline that was attached to her article, however, was not as carefully considered and doesn't seem to reflect her own admission for an affinity to tomboys over girlie-girls.
Sexism is not about what a person prefers, but how they act in the face of that preference. The author provides a first class example for how to proceed when one knows one is biased (and I believe everyone is biased about something): tread carefully and thoughtfully; question your decisions and motivations; be mindful of fairness; listen to people who hold an alternate view; and when uncertain in the face of difficult choices, choose whichever one feels like the kindest thing to do.
What shapes the personal preferences of a person is a Gordian knot of identity, community, religion, gender, sexual proclivities, education, family, contrariness, alcohol consumption, and hour of day. I'm still working out the exact formula, but its mysteries are immaterial when almost always the right answer to everything is that it doesn't matter why you feel the way you do, it matters what you do in spite of it.
15
Yes, I have always thought that real feminism should value femininity. Why just idealize the masculine? The feminine has a great deal to contribute and it should all be acknowledged. In the old days they used to say "Vive la difference!" but I guess now that is considered sexist. It seems unfortunate we cannot acknowledge the strengths of both poles. Thank you for this courageous piece.
31
@John S. - I found it discouraging that several women commenting here, who quite probably consider themselves staunch feminists, revealed just how much they idealized what is considered masculine over what is considered feminine. The message came across loud and clear that the feminine is both inferior and suspect. And not one of them commented on the plight of boys--which the author included--who do not live up to the masculine stereotype--or worse, who exhibit traits and behaviors that are considered feminine.
1
It's not that people discriminate against feminine girls, Lisa. Here's the issue with makeup, specifically: It signals that a woman is trying to look more sexually appealing. In this way, makeup on a young elementary-school girl can be very disconcerting! Hope this helps.
160
Wearing makeup is about a lot more than sex appeal. It is an art form, and about self- expression. Let’s not jump to conclusions about what’s motivating six-year-olds or 60-year-olds to wear makeup, whether they are girls or boys, or women or men. P.S. Transgender women are often lauded for their bravery in being overtly feminine, while cisgender women are criticized. It’s not fair. Everyone has the right to free expression. Bravo to the brave!
32
@Mark
God forbid kids think about their sexuality! Stop!! Disconcerting!!
6
@Mark
As a mother of a 7 year old who is also very interested in makeup, I have to say I really don’t think it’s at all driven by being ‘sexually appealing’ at least at this age. She has zero interest in boys. It’s all about how she *herself* would like to look — all experimentation and self expression. I still mostly don’t allow it because it’s bad for her skin, but we go with sparkly lip gloss and the occasional nail polish.
I think as parents we should embrace our children’s desire to find themselves and not send subliminal messages that some ways of being are bad. In my mind at least, the major problem with trying to look sexually appealing is that girls often think that is how they get valued in society, which I think is a result of a lack of self confidence. It is in fact by allowing them to experiment, without judgment, that we help them develop their own sense of self, interests, and expression, which serves as the foundation for their self esteem.
63
I don’t think the world “approves” of masculine girls. My adult daughter is a butch lesbian, often mistaken for a man. She always wanted short hair and wore her brother’s hand me downs. She had a hard time as a teenager, even though we were supportive of her clothing and hairstyle choices. She tried for a while to dress in a more “feminine” way to appear more acceptable to the world.
60
Have two now grown daughters. Body image and anorexia are the issues to fear. It’slike There is always somebody slimmer somewhere.
So may not the articles on gender seem to deal with theory and trans issues and to avoid the real issues that threaten young womens’ health/
29
thank you for this ! I have a two-year-old boy who loves tea sets, stickers, trucks, puzzles, magnets, and stuffed animals. I am so afraid of teaching him (and any subsequent children) that their interests are somehow lesser. I personally don't favor lots of pink and sparkles, and I am slightly disturbed by children wearing makeup and high heels, so this article is really thought provoking. Would I take issue to a child painting with makeup and sparkles? Is my issue with the color, or with the application to self? how do I raise a child that values themselves and also values the preferences of others? PARENTING IS TERRIFYING
21
You should select and share with your child numerous right/wrong spectra. If they don't hear it from you, they will absorbed from other sources. Then, get ready for your child to evolve to various points on the various spectra that you have tried to teach.
No, parenting is not terrifying. What is terrifying, however, is that too many parents have too much time on their hands and are most likely driving their kids crazy.
1
@germaine: it should not be terrifying.
Just love your kids -- keep them safe, warm, well nourished -- make sure they learn to love books and reading! -- and then LET THEM ALONE.
They will find their own way. Every human being does.
What you love at age two, you won't love at 5 or 7 or 10.
What you love as a child will evolve over your lifetime.
The more parents try to IMPOSE their own ideas -- whether traditional or crazy liberal -- on their kids, the more they make for craziness and misery.
It's just makeup, folks. IT WASHES OFF!
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The problem with this lighthearted little article is that it conflates multiple phenomena. I have never met a young child, boy or girl, who doesn't enjoy makeup. Most children love the colors, the textures, and the fantasy, and more power to the little tykes if they want to smear lipstick or pretty eyeshadow all over their faces. Things start to look more sinister, however, when the makeup is used - as women use it - to emphasis sexuality. Jon Benet Ramsey is not a healthy role model.
The same holds true for clothing. High heels keep you from running, jumping, fighting (it's sometimes necessary), or walking comfortably and safely. That's why men don't wear them, even though height is a "masculine" desideratum.
There's a lot of fun to be had in playing with gender roles, but the emphasis should be on play, both for children and for adults. Take it too seriously and makeup can turn on you. So can toy guns and football, as we know to our sorrow.
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@Kaleberg
Focus on the fun without giving massive messages of approval or condemnation. No one is saying a parent should do a Jon Benet trip on their kid. Or ANY trip.
Basically if you give them space they can sort it out, explore, experience. Let them feel safe and don't judge. Offer ideas that encourage thought and creativity. And if your child does push a boundary with consistent, abiding interest, you may have to push your own boundaries rather than resist based on your own prejudices. Keep an open mind. The world is a big place with lots of diversity. That's a good thing.
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I think you have not met enough young children. My daughter, age 10, has never been interested in makeup. However, she has always liked art supplies— crayons, markers, paints, clay, all kinds of paper, popsicle sticks, etc. — which we have made available since she was about 8 months old.
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@Mom 500 - that's good, but my two girls are so different from one another that I figure what they choose to be interested in has way more to do with their individual personalities than anything I did.
One obsessed with art and drawing, shy and pays no attention to her appearance, the other one loves fancy dresses and makeup and performing and being the center of attention. And they were always like that.
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If a six year old girl wants to play with matchbox cars or lipstick, all is good. She is just figuring out who she is at the very early stages. It is the parents' job to let her explore and help her find her way. My son eschewed sports, which I loved as a boy. My wife and I both had the philosophy that we would not impose our preferences and norms on him (or at least try really hard not to) and instead feed his natural interests. Interestingly enough in his case they led to academia - physics specifically, something that was never before a part of our family heritage, but is now. They will find their own path if you feed their natural interests.
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@Common Sense
Indeedy...! Kids will be kids; let them be; let them be kids.
It's hard to buy into comments that begin "I grapple with these questions regularly." (Second paragraph, original article.) Really? Is it that agonizing? Whither common sense these days...?
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The real difference is between doing something because you want to and doing it to look good for others. Pink sparkles _can_ be in both but are often just rewarding girls for their looks. The "tomboy" activities in the article were always actions, hence more desirable.
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@Chelmian - Uh, why are tomboy "actions" automatically more desirable than "girlie" actions? While physical activity for kids (and adults, too) is good for your health, you seem to be making the suggestion that "actions" are more desirable not for reasons of physical health but because they are more worthy than say, reading a book, drawing a picture, or experimenting with make up. Just why is that?
So discouraging that several of these comments seem to have totally missed the message being conveyed.
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Well, physical activity is good for physical development, brain development, and self esteem. Friends of mine have de-emphasized physical development in raising their son. At 12 months, he could not walk. At 16 months, he could barely walk. At 25 months, he could walk but not very well and not very far. Physical activity is available to children at all ages, including infants.
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While you and your friend have the sophisticated language to describe wide variance in gender identification and the behaviors and trappings that may express those (creatively, self-consciously, etc.), no one's 6 year old child has that language or knowledge.
Don't squelch your child's desire to self-express, of course.
But this article is quite superficial in that it does not acknowledge at all where the desire for lipstick might have come from (media? books? friends? marketing?). Just because a 6 year old desires lipstick does not make that a considered choice. It's a parent's job to try to ascertain where those values come from, and to help filter them.
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@SVB
Well you said it. Don't squelch just, um "filter".
Lipstick, whatever, everything comes from everything. Media? yes, indeed. Books? Friends? Marketing? Uh huh. You just described pretty much culture and society. God forbid. Lipstick as a "value". Sheesh. It is not a gateway drug.
But there is one sure way to make something out of nothing: to express anxiety about it and to try and "filter" it out. That pretty much guarantees a power struggle.
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@SVB- Wow, what a wonderful demonstration of exactly what the author was saying! That six-year-old girl wants to wear LIPSTICK! Let's check out where her desire to wear LIPSTICK is coming from and make sure we filter out any that are too, too, too--well, too what? Feminine, maybe.
Listen to yourself. If this little girl wanted to have a crew cut and play with trucks and trains while ignoring dolls would you have the same recommendations? You are very much putting forth the idea that doing the things that are traditionally in our society considered feminine is somehow abnormal, influenced by what are likely to be malign influences, because what is traditionally considered masculine is, well, what is normal. Did you get nothing out of what the author was trying to say?
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I love the slight of hand you have here: make your SIX year old question why they want a whimsical affect for her own good!
This is of course the natural extension of the overly politicized world the educated class inhabits and encourages.
Children want nothing more than to experience new things while constantly testing/checking that their parents' love is still there. Heck, that continues basically until your 30s!
I can only assume that you're concerned that if a girl values femininity early in life she is somehow setting herself up to be a tool of the patriarchy.
When a girl can make her own choices, and parents don't believe girls too weak or unsophisticated enough to make them on their own, we will be in a better place.
Your misplaced concern only bolsters the idea that girls, and the women they become, need extra guidance.
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"Notions about masculinity and femininity are relative, of course, and rooted in culture."
Well, and to a certain degree, to biology.
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@Objectivist In what ways would you say these things are connected to biology?
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@Objectivist
Wearing makeup is not rooted in biology.
When little girls want to wear make-up and high heels they are wanting to be grown-ups, reflecting what they see on TV. But high heels and make-up are not inherently feminine. Otherwise you'd see women in other cultures wearing make-up and high heels. And you don't.
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@Kelpie13 Make-up and other forms of personal adornment are, in fact, nearly universal in ALL human cultures. For both men and women. Nature vs. nurture... do we have a biological desire to adorn ourselves to stand out to others? I suggest we do. How that is manifest is cultural, but the roots, I believe, are hard coded in our genes.
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I have two daughters, now in their late teens.
I didn’t mind some pink sparkle princess stuff. They enjoyed playing dress up and such.
I did mind the expectation that by default everything they owned should automatically be pink sparkle princess stuff. Our family doesn’t eat off pink and purple dishes and I suspect most people don’t. I shouldn’t have had to go to the teacher supply store to find toy dish sets in primary colors.
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@Di I couldn't agree more. When I was a girl, I inherited my brother's green hand-me-down bike. Later, his blue one. No problem. When I looked for a bike for my eldest, with the same plan in mind, times had changed. Small kid bikes come in pepto-bismol pink or camoflage. The expectations of who would be riding what were clear. I just don't get it how everything in the child's environment, everything they touch, is so often now expected to be indexed to their gender. Car seats, toothbrushes, diapers, the list goes on and on. It's being driven by the marketers looking for a way to reduce re-use, I get it. But it irks me, particularly when, as you say, it promotes a very narrow definition of "this is what girls like".
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@Di - yes, that is the fault of toy marketers. I remember being at the toy store last year and seeing a toy for one year olds - it was just a plastic thing with lots of buttons that light up, play music, talk, etc, for one-year olds, and there were two identical options, one pink, one primary colors. I couldn't believe it. Why did they bother making it in two colors? It's the same exact thing and one year olds don't know from pink. I assume that the expectation was that those buying for girls would choose the pink. Ugh.
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Gee I finally read something that makes sense to me. I couldn't figure out my entire life why being a girl was considered "bad" yet at the same time highly idealized by both genders. I'm helping raise my grand daughter, who by the age of almost two appears to really go for pink and frills and dolls. Awesome! So I teach her to be proud to be pink! Why not? When my son was little every he played ball. took karate, wanted to be a cop, all the macho stuff was Awesome!
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@Jo WittFeldt
Just curious, if it were reversed would you have been as awesome-ed? I hope so!
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In the end, it may not matter as much what the parents think as the classmates. Peer pressure and peer cruelty can over whelm parental approval and cause a lifetime of social trauma.
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Good points. I would like to say that Barbie as a doll can do almost anything. I learned to sew at 6 by making her dresses. This provided me the same 'look, measure, cut it, and try it out' approach I use as an adult in carpentry, cooking, and software design. We also built her houses, cars, horse stables, and a whole world. Yeah, she's stereotypically cute. The action figures I have now as an adult - mostly guys - are also stereotypically cute, although they range wider in ages. The key is the story you make with them. That doesn't come from the doll, it comes from you.
I also want to embrace the notion that sometimes - most of the time - right now in fact - I'm wearing jeans, a flannel shirt, and loafers. I may have brushed my hair this morning. But last weekend I was all dressed up, makeup and fancy coif in place, and having a great time. Because I wanted to. Different days I feel different ways. And ALL of those ways are expressions of my femininity. When we value women, we can value all the ways they express themselves.
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@Nellie-- Right! A Barbie is displayed as an educational toy at the San Jose Tech Museum. A female astronaut is quoted about how Barbies helped shape her creativity. Fearful people who try to steer their children away from the beloved toy are quelching a learning experience- especially now when electronic devices now so fully define the experience of storytelling for the child. Watch any child in the depths of play with Barbie dolls and it becomes clear how much that child has been empowered.
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