In future, please print “Deep State” in quotation marks to clearly indicate that it is a self-serving, deliberately misleading, and completely fictional construct of the alt-right and Trump apologists to obfuscate and distract the public. It’s smoke and mirrors - nothing more.
2
The title of this article uses the term "deep state" without quotation marks, as if it's an actual thing. Is it? I always thought the 'deep state' was a mythical word made up by the GOP to advance conspiracy theories about Trump haters ensconced deep inside the federal bureaucracy. I think this term's unquoted appearance in a New York Times headline lends too much credibility to this concept.
What conservatives call the “deep state” is, in America anyways, a “democratic state” rejecting the right-wing “false state" of alternate facts and universe.
2
Reporters: Please be more careful in your characterizations. First, accusing the “deep state” of unfair persecution is not a defense. It is nothing more than a public relations strategy that may or may not be useful in a given case. Second, this article typifies the journalistic slide into using “deep state” as a description of a concrete apparatus when in fact it is nothing more than a political concept used as a weapon.
2
The Deep State appears, to the unaided eye, as nothing more than a self-serving, deep, dark delusion by those who, at their most shallow level, are terrified by the rule of law, a bedrock of our Constitution.
2
"...a conservative conspiracy theorist rejected a plea deal...claimed he was targeted because he dared “to oppose the deep state.”
Rather thought 'conservative conspiracy theorist' a bit redundant, oh well...
What we had here was a "false state" scofflaw that got caught committing espionage and rolled the dice on the persecution defense - by and from the very "deep state" he dared to oppose, with insanity as backup one should have thought...
2
The Deep State is not so Deep. Most of teh rulers of teh Deep State are under indictment. As they are exposed they are leaving their superficial but highly placed government jobs. This President didn't drain the swamp, he created it. Now it is drying up and the typical response is to turn it around and accuse some non existent entity of doing what they have been doing for at least the last 2 years.
4
It's another American civil cold-war - the "deep state" versus the "false state"...
1
Why is it that the normal operation of the government is the “deep state”? We used to call it the bureaucracy. And even as we might have railed against it, we knew that most of those in the civil service were trying their best to serve our interests as citizens. Is this still not the case? I’m often amazed at how efficient government services are and how helpful civil servants are on the telephone, in person, and now via chat on the internet.
27
Time to redefine "deep state" as a conspiracy of professionals who demand professional behavior.
25
@Ken
Agreed.
While you’re assigning appropriate definitions to novel expressions, how about taking a crack at “FAKE NEWS” as the term is used by Trump and his followers. I’ve heard or read these two words hundreds of times. But I still have no clear idea what users of this expression suppose it means.
5
@Tom W
It means “truthful information that hurts Trump and that we’re going to deny, lie about or try to bury.”
The real question is why they are willing to do so, but there’s an easy answer to that too. “Because we’re stupid, greedy, immoral spineless cowards who couldn’t get what we want by actually working for it, so we’re willing to sell what’s left of our souls instead.”
10
The deep state flap has both good and bad aspects. The bad is that the deep state concept plays too perfectly into conspiracy theories of both the left and right. Just now we are seeing opportunistic deep state attacks from white collar criminals on the right; if you are caught red-handed, your best bet is to play the political card. But in the bigger picture abuse by the deep state has been more often a complaint from the left than the right.
Political regimes come and go but the national security bureaucracy soldiers on. That's mostly a good thing. Amidst the political swirl it provides a baseline of policy continuity and ongoing expertise. In the moronic, impulsive and utterly transactional Age of Trump, this continuity is the principal barrier that the keeps the ship of state from plunging irretrievably into the abyss of chaos.
The people who make up the deep state are mostly career professionals motivated by a commitment to patriotic public service. If political, they tend to be centrists, either Democrat or Republican, who value order and regular procedures. Mueller, Rosenstein and Comey -- the figures at the center of the current Trump investigations -- are all Republicans.
Controversy over the roles of the deep state, official secrecy, cyberwarfare and investigative procedures is a good thing, indeed a necessity, in a democratic society. Will we be able to conduct this critical debate in a rational manner, assuring security while limiting abuse? Time will tell.
7
The so-called “Deep State” is real. Most of us call it “the Constitution and the law.” And we owe our nation’s well-being to those who serve it.
36
@Deborah, it’s like picking the right grapes, selective enforcement of that law is what gives the state its terroir and exquisite palate, making it very deep and complex. No one is quite sure what they sense but they feel sure of something nonetheless. Consider Robert Mueller our sommelier.
2
How did we become a country of so many concurrent right wing conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories so ridiculous that they strain credulity yet are believed by millions of Americans? Deep State, Pizzagate, QAnon, are main stream truths for large segments of our country. A quick Google search will find there are countless more right wing conspiracies with countless more adherents. This is a deep and dangerous poison to our democracy and needs to be taken seriously before it is too endemic to be stopped.
47
This is the price of free speech absolutism, Murdoch and Jones made a fortune with this stuff. I'm afraid protecting speech abuses does make those kind of things inevitably endemic.
7
There's something nefarious at work here: A Stalinist maneuver that brandishes a conspiracy theory to undermine the legitimacy of career civil servants with the aim of replacing them with party hacks loyal to Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
24
Yes, there is a deep state alright, but like a hypnotic trance you have to believe in it first to fully succumb to it.
The only individuals conspiring here are the ones who think they have discovered a slick way to cover their tracks by inventing a handy alternative reality.
16
The comment section is preaching to the choir, of course, but hurrah for the Times, and those who have been reading her for decades. We have watched the rise of actual fake news, at first scarcely able to not laugh at itself, and the horrifying "populist" nightmare candidates it now routinely foists on our previously sincere attempt at democracy. We who revere the US and her Constitution are thrilled to see the rule of law prevail, and a press report it truthfully. We in our house have some real hope for a future free of government by gangster.
4
Louie Gohmert? Please. Sorry to have to say this, but following his congressional career has led me to conclude that he is by far the least intelligent person in both chambers combined.
4
What trump and other miscreants describe as a deep state "of Obama supporters entrenched in the law-enforcement and national-security bureaucracies who are just out to get him" is in reality a well-functioning system that values truth over lies, reality over fiction. That, and no political agenda, motivates them. And that is why they are anathema to Trump.
8
If Bannon's "deep state" actually existed, we wouldn't have a President like Trump. We do, and it doesn't.
Isn't there a name for a condition wherein one sees enemies hiding round every corner?
6
And only the bigots supporters believe this spin, still.
Some people survive by living in denial.
4
Unfortunately, because of the laziness, imprecision, and lack of understanding that the term ‘deep state’ could be so easily turned against the principled progressive left — this inane and too easily re’framed’ term has badly back-fired on a honest but inept progressive left with a vengeance.
If the far more accurate, effective, and unmaliable term ‘Empire’ had been employed to describe the obviously insane; Empire-building”, Empire-thinking, and clearly ‘Empire-acting Emperor Trump and the disguised global capitalist Empire of UHNWIs and the corporate & banking structure they control, then the growing principled left anti-Empire movement would have (and still can) claim and control the actual and symbolic high-ground of being the Political/economic and social(ist) “Revolution Against Empire” that our once promising and sometimes progressing country can be in leading an uncontested Global Democracy Union (GDU) which will gather and join other like-minded democracies overtly against the deadly 4 millennia history of Empire —and the plastic propagandistic term ‘deep state’ can be properly buried in the dust-bin of imperial and violence of history.
2
Supporters of treasonous turncoats who play hard and fast with our laws and our constitution should be given one way plane tickets to Moscow and have their American passports revoked. These conspiracy theorists and other Trump allies can enjoy a REAL deep state in Russia. Have fun.
5
The trumpian swamp dwellers are of a kind: no shame, no patriotism, and above all, no morals.
3
"Deep State" is nothing but a perfidious, poisonous & putrid concoction of rightwing Conservative (translate to Republican) lies, distortions, deflections & canards -- deliberately misdirected for the sole purpose of preventing criminal Conservatives who have committed high crimes, treason & felonies from being investigated, indicted, tried in courts of law & brought to justice.
Deep State my foot!
For 6 decades, I have be subjected to Conservative lies & hypocrisy to reach high Heaven, with their specious mischaracterizations of Progressives & Liberals. Now, the Conservative chickens have come home to roost & the rightwingers will stop at naught to slay the goose that lays the golden egg of justice if they can.
To all of those Conservatives who have preached how patriotic, how moral, how adult, how honest, how American they have been, I offer this riposte: you may believe your lies if you wish, but your mendacity & treachery will undo you in the end. The only "deep state" is your own radical rightwing extremism which advocates corruption & perversion of the U.S. Constitution. Your emulations of the dictators of the world bring to mind the ultimate end of all such despotic criminals.
Think not for a second that you will get away with your miscreancies. We are watching every word, every move, every action you make like a hawk! We shall not forget; nor shall we forgive you for the violence you inflict upon good Americans as well as upon our democratic republic.
5
I’ve had enough of Trump’s hysterical hyperbole based in nothing but excuses for his own criminality as an individual and his gross incompetence as President. What’s even more disgusting are the sycophants that blindly threw their loyalty behind a two-bit huckster that anyone paying attention knew was just a lying sack of garbage.
If you break the law, you go to jail. Man up and take some responsibility. Real gangsters knew how to do hard time. But Trump and his sycophants aren’t real men, they’re big-mouthed boys who think they’re movie gangsters. Throw the book at the lot of them and let them rot in prison. The sooner we purge these criminals from our democracy, the sooner we can get back to building a better future for all Americans, not supporting a bunch of incompetent criminals.
2
The Deep State Defense; brought to us by the Party Of Personal Responsibility; the same folks who brought us the Affluenza Defense. My own defense: I lost the ground ball in the sun.
1
Stay tuned, folks.
It won't be just disgruntled civil servants and officers of the law who invoke the supposed "Deep State", but I am sure we will see federal judges doing this when criminal indictments are brought against GOP operatives.
2
Seriously.
Is the orientation of those citizens who are devoted to truth and fact, logic and reason, and the Rule of Law so foreign to Trump and his ardent followers, that they honestly perceive these threatening folks to constitute a dark conspiracy?
Is this actually possible?
Assuming the Trumpists are pretending to buy into this absurdity, as a political ploy, seems much more likely.
Donald Trump has lied so frequently, for so long, he is no longer able to differentiate his invented reality from objective truth. This is obvious.
But how his serious delusional disorder might, in fact, be transferred to millions of American adults doesn’t seem possible.
9
In addition to Chris Hedges’ piece on Trump and his base as a cult leader and cult, familiarity with Edward Bernays and his understanding of propaganda and the manipulation of the masses suggests just how treacherous is our current state of affairs. So treacherous that the solution may be beyond our current democratic processes.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-cult-of-trump-2/
Edward Bernays, is a seminal and controversial figure in the history of political thought and public relations. Edward Bernays (1891–1995), pioneered the scientific technique of shaping and manipulating public opinion, which he famously dubbed the “engineering of consent.” He became an outspoken proponent of propaganda as a tool for democratic and corporate manipulation. His 1928 book "Propaganda" lays out his eerily prescient vision for using propaganda to regiment the collective mind in a variety of areas, including government, politics, art, science and education. To read this book today is to frightfully comprehend what our contemporary institutions of government and business have become in regards to organized manipulation of the masses.
The rise of Trump and his reliance on fear as a motivating impulse has reinvigorated interest in Bernays provoking many fascinating articles, in particular the New Republic’s How Trump is Creating a Propaganda State.
https://newrepublic.com/article/144592/trump-creating-propaganda-state
PS
Goebbels was an enthusiastic student of Bernays' work
8
@Arizona surely the mentor to Joe McCarthy and Donald Trump, Roy Cohn, was familiar with Bernays.
1
I'm a college teacher. I've heard every excuse for bad behavior, ranging from the proverbial "My dog ate my homework" to "I was in the hospital with a brain disease so rare than only six people have ever been diagnosed with it."
I can't wait until I get the first "You gave me a low grade because I'm a conservative and you're just another part of the coastal elitist college-teaching socialist Deep State!"
15
The “deep state defense” or use of the term hardly originated with our President. If President Trump had been fond of using “raspberry jelly” or “reinforced concrete” as a basis for blaming the never-ending attacks on he and his family or his administration, and then those terms were picked up, we’d have a match. Nice try.
It’s scary that organizations like Breitbart, Daily Caller and especially Fox News are allowed to outright lie to the public.
In Europe we have freedom of speech too.
At least in Western Europe and the northern countries but here it is illegal to lie and deceive the public.
Funny how there’s not that many conspiracies going on in these parts. It is almost as if there are less brain dead people here since news organizations are held accountable and cannot willfully lie, spread lies or promote propaganda.
8
People too dumb to pass the class blame the test.
Bad sports blame the game.
Poor workmen blame their tools.
If the deep state is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
5
HAH!! The Bigley defence! Too on the nose.
4
So? Are we supposed to be convinced now that Deep State does not exist? If that was its goal, maybe it should have stayed deep, instead of getting straight into our faces?
2
It does exist just not the one Trump is always railing against.
4
I heard someone recently (maybe Biden?) saying that when trump is finally gone his domestic damage will be relatively easy to fix expeditiously, but that his foreign affairs damage will be much more difficult, if not impossible to reverse.
I completely agree on the foreign "policy", former western allies know that if this nuttiness can happen once, it can happen again. They're taking a hard look at their relationship with China & Russia (as well as others). They know the post-WWII US-Western relationship is gone forever.
However, I disagree with his take on domestic issues. The attacks and damage being done to critical, trusted institutions like the FBI and DoJ. That damage of trust will take generations to repair, and only if the GOP ever rises from the ashes.
8
These people may want to rethink their defense strategies. The last couple of weeks have proven Trump and company aren't an example to be followed.
5
This is such utter foolishness. The only “deep state” in this country are the thousands of career civil servants who chose a career of public service, the overwhelming majority of whom take their responsibilities seriously. Trump hates them because he doesn’t take his responsibility seriously and they are holding him to account. Which is just exactly what they are supposed to be doing. If anything saves this country from this criminal, so-called “president” it will be those folks.
23
@WesternMass, spoken like a true deep-stater rallying his troops to their call to duty. It’s obviously up to you and them to decide what is presidential, like it says in the Constitution.
Maybe because it's by and large true?
4
@Mike Livingston
Only if you regard the agencies et al. designed to require that one (including 'individual 1') follows established laws in the protection of our country against unlawful and unconstitutional practices.
1
Only to those incapable of critical thought.
3
Based on what evidence is "it" "by and large true"?
4
A deep state of paranoid, deceitful, unfounded, delusion among the people who find comfort in this, probably Kremlin instigated, Deep State. This conspiracy nonsense is the preparation for all sorts of terrible things to come when Trump and his circle of people who worked with him to commit crimes are finally taken to account.
4
May we assume that since the imaginary deep state is loyal to President Obama that it’s members are primarily African-Americans? Will this stupidness then lead to the decrease of this group within government service? Is that next?
1
“'I guess I am going to have to go to prison for the rest of my life because I dare to oppose the deep state,' Mr. Corsi said."
Sounds good to me. Understand you only have to do 85% of your sent
6
Oh, there's a deep state, alright, and it's theirs. Read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/opinion/maria-butina-putin-infiltration.html
9
What happens when you don't teach your kids to own up when they mess up: it's always somebody else's fault.
8
The only "Deep State" is inhabited by Trump & his cronies. And now the Trump Foundation is being forced to fold. Somebody should take away the passports of Trump, Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Jared, Sarah & Kellyanne before they try to skip town........a Christmas or your holiday of choice gift, indeed. Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus! God forgive me for being so gleeful............
3
"Alleging misconduct by law enforcement has long been a standard defense tactic … ."
Hoover made it possible and highly likely. More important, human behavior dictates the reality--government workers ain't no different from the rest of the population, e.g., Strzok, Page, McCabe, Comey, and Lynch. Washington is filled with one failed institution after another--soon all that will remain will be the Smithsonian.
3
@Alice's Restaurant
All that has failed is a basis in these (and your) allegations of institutional failure based on no demonstrable data. If you mean that our institutions have failed you, perhaps you would respond specifically with each institution's legal charge and its uncorrected infraction.
PS I don't get, nor expect, anything I want from every institution -- even the Smithsonian. (Sorry Arlo.)
5
@RW
Congress is not failure per se and fellows FBI, NSA, CIA? Where are you living--"Day of the Locust" fantasyland?
2
“Mr. Bigley said. “But I have now represented well over a dozen people who have been targeted for political reasons.”
How many have been targeted by Trump State for political reasons, which are usually announced on twitter by Donnie himself as political retribution?
2
This is the lasting legacy of trumpian politics. The undermining of institutions by those within the very institutions, so that the citizens become confused and longer believe anything objectively.
There has of course always been legitimate skeptism of authorities by the excluded and under represented, sometimes justified and sometimes merely paranoid. But this current attack is different. We have the President, some in Congress, some in law enforcement and even judges , questioning the very institutions they serve, not because they are unfairly investigated or questioned, but rather to sow discord and confusion.
It’s a very dangerous time.
11
What a shameful defense; don’t take any responsibility for your actions — just blame the “deep state.” It’s the boogeyman(men?). Republican conspiracy theorists, led by Trump Sr. and Jr., Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, et al, love it because of the hateful rhetoric and fake news involved.
9
I wonder how loudly Republicans and Fox News would howl if a Democrat accused of wrongdoing blamed his situation on the "deep state"?
8
The deep state defense/paranoia is another example of the Republicans embracing the Russian playbook; discredit and dissemble. Are they that naive? Do they know no end to their ego and personal aggrandizement?
11
I am not a decent, law abiding person. The deep state is responsible for my behavior.
A five year old can come up with a better rationale than that.
9
The fact that high-level government officials subscribe to well-documented and debunked conspiracy theories is truly terrifying to consider.
They have no place in any government position whatsoever and should immediately be stripped of all clearances and forfeit all future pensions and healthcare being paid for by us taxpayers.
6
‘The Deep State’ is the US Constitution and long standing federal and state laws that Trump and his cohorts continue to ignore and violate.
3
I am now officially implementing the Nixonion "lip sweat test" on all of Trump's sycophants and especially with Guiliani and Sanders.
You knew Nixon was lying when he started to sweat below his nose.
Unfortuntately, this may not be 100% accurate in that many of them actually believe their own lies...same: Guiliani and Sanders.
Where is Rod Serling when you need him?
3
EVERYDAY! We learn of another unethical and narcissistic act by Trump and his minions who never put the country's interest over their own.
May Trump and his deceitful cronies suffer the rest of their lives, particularly on their deathbeds, for the evil acts.
And may our country heal!
7
Their respective deep state of denial and deception is contemptible and craven. Truth and decency will ultimately prevail even if the path to get there is hampered by setbacks, detours and delays. Lock up the unlawful and fight the fake with the facts.
2
I have no insight into the "deep state" but it's fascinating to see that, in the bizarro world we entered on 11/8/16, folks on the liberal side of the spectrum now view the national security establishment as a bulwark of democracy. The same institutions that "proved" the existence of WMD.
1
@Max
Actually they didn't. They were told by bush and cheney to come up with evidence to support the claims of wmds in Iraq. The problem is that they couldn't so bush and cheney cherry picked what there was and declared that the intelligence agencies had the proof.
At no time did those agencies ever say such things, which is why when the US attacked, it was not a slam dunk and we didn't know exactly where those 'wmds' were.
When Powell made his yellow cake speech at the UN, the intelligence agencies tried to stop him from making such an assertion. But Bush and cheney insisted so the lie was kept in.
Bush and cheney wanted a war, they ginned up the intel to say what they wanted, disregarding intelligence that said otherwise.
1
It this does not work, there's always the 'good German' variation.
2
Am I the only one angry that the New York Times perpetuates and exacerbates the problem by consistently referring to these fabricators, yellow journalists, and conspiracy mongers as "conservative media"? Attention: the line from liberal to conservative is not a spectrum which terminates on the right in unhinged, anti-rational lunacy. They may want to be described this way, but remember, they will also describe Eisenhower as an anti-American leftist when it suits them.
Well, at least we now know where Trump's conspiratorial paranoia comes from: Russian propaganda and his own corrupt practices as a failed businessman, a publicity-hungry candidate, and an illegitimate elected official.
My impression is that the "Deep State" usually refers to the most highly truthful and the least political part of the US government - highly experienced, even expert civil servants that have worked under both Republican and Democratic administrations, with clear knowledge of the law, and dedicated to democracy. In fact they are turning out in most cases to be the guardians of democracy. Shady politicians seek to portray them otherwise.
2
Only in the alternate universe, that is the right wing, is "calling someone out" for conspiring with a known enemy considered "targeting for political reasons."
1
People like Trump have succeeded by lying, cheating, and stealing their whole lives. Laws and governments have not limited their predations upon mankind. They will never be decent and trustworthy people. They call public institutions which inhibit them, "the deep state", because every once in a while it stops them from hurting other people but only sometimes.
2
The only way to make sense of Trump and his "base" is to realize that we are dealing with a cult and a cult leader.
It is well worth reading Chris Hedges article
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-cult-of-trump-2/
or listen to it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ6OHMpXNfk
to appreciate the extent of the danger and hypnotic force that has gripped a portion of the American populace.
He suggests that the efforts of the Democratic Party and the press (the crusade) to discredit Trump and his "base" is utterly insufficient Rather:
"This crusade attempts to reduce a social, economic and political crisis to the personality of Trump. It is accompanied by a refusal to confront and name the corporate forces responsible for our failed democracy. This collusion with the forces of corporate oppression neuters the press and Trump’s mainstream critics."
"Our only hope is to organize the overthrow of the corporate state that vomited up Trump. Our democratic institutions, including the legislative bodies, the courts and the media, are hostage to corporate power. They are no longer democratic."
New Yorkers have their own corporatized puke in the guise of our mayor, governor, city and state agencies, the court system, lobbying groups such as REBNY, etc. each dedicated to protecting the self interests of the other.
Hedges maintains that to effectively combat Trump one must understand the nature and behavior of the beast. A cult is a malignant and insidious cancer.
1
@Arizona, Chris Hedges has long been an insightful thinker. His book, "War is A Force That Gives Us Meaning," should have been must-read for every member of Congress when it was published in 2002. Sadly, in contrast to everything his 2008 campaign was based on, President Obama continued the neo-con's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan his entire 8 years, ending his presidency with the shameful distinction of longest wartime president in US history. And expanded the intervention-first, regime change nonsense into Libya and Syria.
1
What a wonderful all purpose excuse. The next time I get a traffic ticket I'm going to fight it on the basis of deep state overreach. When asked by friends when i didn't pay my share of the check, I'll just tell them I refuse to contribute any support to the deep state (taxes) and I'll stiff the waitstaff for the same reason.
Scads more examples come to mind (lies told, promises broken, ethics breached), but I don't want to use up space here for fear of deep state retaliation. In case of the latter, I would very much like a lawyer named Bigley. To defend me. Bigly.
Gosh, we live in interesting times. Only twenty-two more months of this (give or take). Be still my heart.
2
Trump's ilk are doing the Putin's work for him. The real Deep State is the Kremlin's operatives trying to disrupt and destroy western democracy.
More like the Geraldine defense: The Deep State made me do it!
"Hey, with Louie Gohmert on our side, how can we lose?" Sheesh.
1
My grandmother would have called them “crackpots”.
And she would be right.
3
45 is the worst occurrence in the u.s. since WWII.
1
If you have no defense then use the old "red herring" argument. Blame others, in these cases even imaginary others will do.
1
It’s not going to work. Trump ruined it for them.
1
Deep State = Laws
If you don't want to be prosecuted, don't break laws.
If you break laws, you raise the risk of investigation and prosecution.
Seems fairly clear to me. I don't know why these "patriots" are having such a hard time with this.
Maybe we need to have a remedial Civics refresher MOOC. Fox News could offer it with their new online premium package. Oh wait - it's in direct conflict with their programming. Never mind.
1
Close your eyes. Reach your hand into a bag of mixed nuts. Grab two. So long as you keep your eyes closed, you can’t be certain exactly what you’re holding in your hand. All you know for sure is — it’s nuts.
As federal and state investigations into various questionable activities, in which President Trump and his associates have involved themselves, move forward, there is no way of knowing with any certainty how the individual defenses of those accused will be shaped. But it is a very good bet that law enforcement officials and the American people will be offered excuses, rationalizations, lies and fantasies, most of which will surely be NUTS.
1
They're right you know, they do live in a "deep state", a VERY DEEP STATE where corruption, deceit, and greed rule. trump and his mob, (aka republican party) are Very familiar with the "deep state" it is where they live.
Deep state == rule of law and respect for institutions. These are a worrisome detail when trying to establish a kleptocracy
1
I wasn't aware that shining light on those who break the law is considered a political attack. Before January of 2017 it was considered the obligation of those working in government to do their job by the rules and uphold regulations given to them by their government. Now, apparently we have a 'sneaky liberal ghost army' that is out to do harm to members of the administration. Paranoia strikes deep in this administration as a way to justify playing fast and lose with long standing norms and rules. 2020 can't arrive soon enough.
3
Flynn found out today just how 'well' the deep state defense works.
1
and there's also the man with the smoking cigarette like in X-files......
1
For "Deep state" substitute "rule of law" and the article makes more sense..
The FBI did target Vietnam protesters and tried to smear ML King The CIA is complicit in deposing & killing of foreign leaders.
Nothing is impossible the whole system is corrupt Trump and his minions are despicable What & who can we trust?
1
@bob waks, exactly and it happens under both political parties. LBJ was a Democrat. President Carter's is Democrat & his DOJ chose not to pursue the recommendations that came forth from the House Select Committee on Assassinations. President Clinton's DOJ chose not to follow up on anything and instead did their best to delegitimize Coretta Scott King and the other heirs of MLK, Jr. after King family won their court case about government involvement in the death of MLK, Jr. Obama's CIA chief lied about spying on US Senate Intelligence Committee (the committee assigned to oversee CIA); and Obama's NSA chief lied about mass warrantless surveillance vs US citizens on American soil.
Hillary Clinton's campaign paid Perkins Coie law firm and Fusion GPS to create the now discredited Steele dossier to provide justification for the FISA court warrants to spy on Trump's campaign (and Hillary's campaign then violated campaign finance laws by not reporting this expenditure properly).
Trump may well have engaged in equally illegal behavior, be it via unofficial campaign operatives such as Roger Stone or whoever. But highly disingenuous to pretend somehow one political party and their operatives are corrupt and the other is not.
1
People are very susceptible to herd mentality even when it makes No Sense, even when it is treasonous, even when they will go to jail if they are caught. Many of The Trump group ally themselves with dictators from which the money comes,masses of money.They are beyond any country and have no close affinity to the US except for what they can get out of it. They are international bandits. Trump
attracts like minded people. Law and courts are adversarial for them.
The only deep state is Russian. Specifically the Russians who manage Trump.
1
These people are just comically obvious frauds and grifters, and blaming "the deep state" is fittingly and comically nonsense. That so many seemingly normal people take them seriously makes me wonder how many of my fellow humans process their reality.
I suppose that's the point...
1
The "Deep State" is Trumpese for The Rule of Law. The depth and breadth of corruption in the Trump administration is simply staggering. How much longer is this going to go on?
1
Anyone using the "Deep State defense" should get an automatic 5-10 years added to any sentence they receive. On top of whatever crimes they may have already committed, they are trying to undermine the country when resorting to such a pathetic and desperate legal strategy.
"The fact that it can never be dis-proven, just proves it's true", said the true-believer about his conspiracy theory.
Why use logic, reason, math, science, history, knowledge, skill, insight, wisdom, expertise, analysis, and acumen, when it's so much easier to just "make things up"? - Just like the current President of the United States does every time he opens his mouth.
"Biggest election crowd ever!"
"North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat!"
"I know more about the military then anyone!"
"Stormy Daniels? Never heard of her!"
"I'm a self-made man! No one ever gave me anything!"
"I won the election by 3,000,000 votes!"
"I'm the least racist person you will ever meet!"
"The IRS has forbidden me from releasing my taxes!"
"No collusion!" - You know that one's true, because he's said it over 783,297 times!
30
Chicago Guy, your reply is brilliant! Thanks for posting.......enjoy your evening (I am serious).
3
@Chicago Guy
To the conspiratorial mind, any evidence proves a conspiracy, and a lack of evidence also proves a conspiracy.
1
Deep State Central I found it !!!! 55.7558° N, 37.6173° E
Moscow.
22
Next thing you know. They'll be saying there are Aliens at Area 51 or there's an actual organization called the Men In Black
5
Nice to know who's the shallow state.
7
GOP hysteria knows no bounds.
17
Yeah right real macho responsible men
Like their fearless leader
All a bunch of cowards
19
The problem with this conspiratorial defense as applied to mishandling of classified info, is that the government has always gone after those who do this, regardless of party. Most people prosecuted for document crimes like this are just idiots, like the guy who read a classified document publicly.
5
These guys should pay Putin a consulting fee for using KGB and Soviet propaganda tactics.
The several investigations swirling around this administration are all deep state? Come on, I thought the right can do a lot better then just hurling conspiracy theories and the deep state at the execution of the law.
Facts are very tough things to argue with.
Drip.....Drip.....Drip.....Drip.......Drip
3
Lock them all up and show them what a deep state is really about. All these men, these president's men, make me sick. I wonder why we still have a criminal in the white house.
22
I was reading the article and then, our beloved Louie Gohmert’s name appeared. Stopped me right there. What a waste of time.
2
Its called blaming others for your own actions.
4
deep state = the law
5
What else a coward and a dishonest person can say to defend himself when is caught with a smoking gun in his hands?
5
Trump and his crime syndicate supporters are really getting boring. You cannot defend the indefensible. Blame Hillary's emails, the Deep State, Nancy Pelosi, the Democrats, blame everyone except yourselves! For supporting a crook, pathological liar, and an unqualified reality tv game show host. The US is sick of the trump chaos!
8
I am embarrassed to be alive.
5
@Flint
Thank you for that, me too!
1
This attempt to scapegoat justice is graceful. Anyone that would champion Louis Gomert for anything is clearly grasping at straws. Conspiracy theorists and outright liars such a Corsi need to be exposed for what they are, charlatans.
4
Yep, just bring down government institutions and their credibility with you, Trump cronies, as you are rightfully investigated for your wrongdoings. Classy all the way.
2
The "Deep State" to the Trump/McConnell criminal cartel are the Americans who believe in our laws, democracy and criminal justice system. The fact that the "President of the United States" called a cooperating witness "a rat!" and called Manafort, a criminal who was working for Putin against the USA, "a good man" tells us all we need to know about Trump and all those, like McConnell, defending the corrupt crook. 2020 is going to be bloodbath for republicans. 2018 was just a warm-up.
6
The Deep State/conspiracy believers have at least one thing in common. They have vastly inflated estimates of their own intellectual prowess. They have this unspoken attitude...”I know something that you don’t “. Only they are analytical enough to be able to sift through the vast labyrinth of government plots, plans and treachery to see the real truth. The rest of us? Well, we’re just dupes.
3
Too many "X Files" re-runs for these guys. Next it'll be the Smocking Man is responsible.
5
The "deep state" defense is just Trump's version of the "vast right wing conspiracy" Hillary Clinton bemoaned . Lawbreakers lie, obfuscate and point fingers, go figure.
1
@Jason
NO, it's not. "Deep state" alleges that law enforcement officials within the U.S., all of them Democrats and/or liberals, are spying on, compiling dossiers and even setting up Republicans and/or conservatives to bring them down.
"Vast right-wing conspiracy" made no references to law enforcement. The Clintons didn't harass Ken Starr publicly, didn't try to obstruct his investigation, which was supposed to be into Whitewater and wound up getting into a tawdry personal matter.
And besides, Clinton was right, although ahead of her time. The vast right-wing conspiracy emerged in public during the Obama administration as the birther movement, full of little code words and wink-wink signals. You're sending one right now by using this equivalency argument.
2
The ‘deep state’ is made up of institutions and people who are now the guardrails on this crazy road trip.
I’m praying those guardrails hold.
13
not the deep state; there is no deep state. rather, the rule of law. the lawbreakers and the anything goes amoral politicos don't get that there is a long history/culture of respect for the law and legal process in this country. it is what differentiates us as a nation. it is grounded in civics or ethics, and in legal context, was reinforced by the traditions of the bench and bar, professional and prosecutorial standards. (read James Stewart's The Prosecutors.) prosecutors and judges well-trained in US history and the law are unfortunately the last bulwark against the barbarians at the gate. a by-product of the quagmire/swamp that has beset the country post-Watergate.
2
Yes, there's a deep state. The earliest descriptions do not originate from the Right but from the Left. Peter Dale Scott, began by writing about the nationally protected foreign drug trade. "[He] is considered the father of “Deep Politics”— the study of hidden permanent institutions and interests whose influence on the political realm transcends the elected, appointed and career officials who come and go."
Trump and the the Right have turned deep state analysis into another brain-dead cartoon, one in which the deep state acts at the behest of elected officials, in this case, apparently Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. They re-use deep state concepts as an excuse for their own political artlessness -- the inability to create political change despite Republican control of all three branches of government, and to distract from Trump's all pervasive corruption.
The deep state refers to some bureaucratic policy momentum that persists across administrations often because it enjoys legally diminished political accountability. It is largely constrained to the national security apparatus . Some impacts leak into federal Law Enforcement, the FBI, DEA, and State Department. The FBI enjoys some deep state cloaking because it is in charge of counter-espionage on US soil, and it must investigate itself (and Congress) for wrong-doing.
Yes, where there is no sunshine, dark things crawl.
4
If deep state means integrity and justice, then I deeply love it.
1
It is alarming that persons in this piece have flagrantly violated the law concerning the handling of classified documents.
Agreements are signed and briefings concerning classified material and classification authority duties are explained.
When someone removes classified documents without permission and claims the deep state did it, that holds little credence with me. When someone claims the material should never have been classified, then take it up with the classification authority, not with the deep state, or, use the "deep state" as a broken crutch.
The fact these individuals broke the law and blame the dog for eating their homework, so to speak, is laughable. Perhaps Robert Hannssen needs a roommate given the security breaches.
2
Yet another example of the right accusing others of that which they themselves actually do. Brennan's security clearance revocation was assuredly completely political.
3
I get it now. Referring to a "deep state" is code for begging for a presidential pardon.
Unfortunately, "Individual 1" is a bit busy right now, and it ain't the holidays that preoccupy him.
3
Is it possible that when the right wing Republicans complain about the "deep state", what they are actually unhappy with are the foundation stones of honest and democratic government?
2
Deep State = Rule of Law.
That being said, national security classifications and clearances are overdone.
The most worrisome thing about the deep state complaints is that it shows exactly what the conservatives would be doing given half a chance.
Just look at claims about Clinton and O'Bama judges and the current process for appointing judges.
1
There are certainly problems in governance; it is part of the very mechanism of any government. But seriously, a "deep state"? No. The only real provable conspiracy I know of is the one being perpetrated by the 1% and their lackeys in trying to control all the available money while letting others barely make ends meet if they can do so at all.
2
The more the merrier!! At this point, having all of the Trump incompetents and grifters complaining about "deep state" out to get them might wear it out.
I agree there is a "deep state" of decency and respect for rule of law.
2
Interesting...on the way to the Deep State defense, Bigley and
Lovinger stop for the night at the Hillary Defense: "It said classified, but it wasn't classified and besides I didn't show it to anybody who shouldn't see it. If that guy was a real intelligence officer he would know he shouldn't be reading deeply classified material. What is wrong with him? Where's the prosecution now? Um, witch hunt. Did I say that right?"
2
If memory serves me correctly, the man who coined the term deep-state was a prominent writer of spy novels. The term no doubt tantalized his readers and the idea of an invisible yet very real and all-powerful presence seamlessly dovetails into the world of conspiracies inhabited by so many of the president's supporters dwell. We are in a place in which psychiatrists would be far more valuable than intelligence analysts.
1
I thought that the GOP had controlled the House and the Senate for nearly all of the last 20 years?!
Wouldn't that mean that the majority of the employees had been hired under the GOP, and hence make them the deep state?
How can they be in control of everything yet the deep state is supports the opposition? Seems like another alternative GOP fact.
Do any of these developments surprise? The most incredulous is that everyone EXCEPT our corrupt president being held accountable while he seems to believe he is untouchable.
“Pride goerh before a fall”
If people still believe Trump is really trying to MAGA a leopard doesn’t change his spots. He seems to be so polarizing which is exactly what we DON’T need any more of. Trump is only interested in getting his ego stroked while he parlays his presidency into more profits. He wants to make billions while everyone else is struggling to make ends meet. He must have no conscience.
When are Republicans gonna begin to realize if they remain loyal they will go down with this sinking ship.
1
Wouldn't the Russians love to have it shown (real or not) that the US harbors a deep state. On the other hand, it makes sense that when the President is out to destroy the credibility of your work and career as a professional within a government department, that you want to fight back, and those that don't are on his side. Could it be that not supporting your departments fosters a deep state?
1
It is astounding that Americans do not recognize that We The People are the state, not the so called oligarchs who try to fleece us on a regular basis.
4
As a practicing psychoanalyst, I am familiar with individuals who are unable to accept any responsibility for their mistakes and instead blame others. The psychological mechanism by which this transfer of blame occurs is called projection which is Donald Trump's preferred means of avoiding responsibility. Whenever I hear him accuse someone or some agency of being against him, I turn his accusation around and assume that he is describing something true about himself which he cannot face.
So when I hear him or one of his sycophants talk about the deep state, I consider that a true statement about him and his Republican colleagues – that they have acted as a "deep state" which has consistently aimed at undermining American values of respect for the truth, the law and the Constitution.
Yes, there is a "deep state" and it's called the Republican Party.
3
Make no mistake.... these people of the "Deep State think" and their enablers are doing enormous damage and long-lasting, if not permanent, harm to our country.
Nothing that Trump and his appointees do surprises me any longer. What troubles me is that almost 40% of the American voting public support these people. Even after the Mueller report comes out and makes serious substantive charges against Trump, these people will continue to support and vote for him, while blaming Obama and Hillary Clinton for everything.
2
If I understand their point, all of the Republicans' investigations into Hillary's emails, Bengazi, Uranium One, Comey, etc., should be conducted entirely by partisan Democrats so as to avoid conflicts of interest and unlawful bias. I suppose in a world of alternative facts, that sort of alternative logic makes sense.
3
The 'Deep State' is a metaphor for the Union (Yankee) forces of the North created by the Slave States of the Confederacy.
The myth that there is this unjust central government in the Northern US, keeping down the good Slavery Supporters of the South, has been around for a LONG time.
Now it is called the Deep State.
Once again, I am amazed that so many people in the cities and on the coasts don't have any familiarity with the common memes Southern US
The deep state is real. It’s people of honor and integrity who are doing the good work of law enforcement by investigating and prosecuting criminals. That the Trumpists aré trying to discredit them is strong evidence of their guilt.
4
Trump and all those, witting or unwitting, are the actual deep state, and they HAVE destabilized the country. This has been a plan LONG in the making. It be began not with Strumph, but with Stickelgruber. These might seem like nonsensical references, but everyone should do their research and figure it out. Only with ones own research can something of this magnitude be realized. Start with those two names. Look into Borman as well.
Yes, there is a "deep state". It is the constitutional, legal and customary practices of the United States of America hewn over the nearly two and a half centuries of this Republic. It is the very foundation of our nation, the rock upon which its strength and resiliency is based. If you seek to undermine it or besmirch it, is is you who has made him or herself an "enemy of the people" and you should and must be roundly punished for that.
18
It is interesting to see law-and-order conservatives shirk responsibility for their own misdeeds while talking tough about responsibility, accountability, and the necessity of punishment for asylum seekers, immigrants, and minorities.
62
President Obama had the opportunity to end the Patriot Act (or at least to significantly amend and reform it), in conjunction with the Democratic controlled Congress, from 2008-2010. He and his fellow Democrats did not. For the millions of "Frank Church" Democrats, who voted for Obama, in part, because of his promise to end the abuses and overreach of the permanent national security state (not to mention military-industrial complex), this was a deep disappointment.
Even worse, Obama brought zero accountability when John Brennan and CIA violated their agreement with Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee during torture investigation, and Brennan then Brazenly lied about it. Zero accountability when James Clapper perjured himself about NSA's mass warrantless surveillance of US citizens on American soil.
The Democrats chose not to pursue these reforms when they could have and had been elected to majority power to do so. President Obama chose not to bring accountability against his own deep state abuses. Where was the prosecution of Brennan for his lies; Clapper for his perjury? This should not be a partisan matter but unfortunately has become so, because both parties are only too happy to abuse the deep state and use it for their own purposes when they are in power.
7
@GRH In reality President Obama was never really allowed to Govern, instead we had a Shadow President of Dick Cheney with the formation of Homeland Security.
Obama was 'allowed' to institute a Republican Health Plan, yet got all the grief for it and was brutally abused in the media by folks like Trump and Corsi. Yet he held his calm and stoically endured being 'The Black Face in the Whitehouse' with all the junk that came with it, but none of the real privileges seeing as how McConnell famously tried to make him a One Term President, for 10 years and counting now.
But it was Cheney's Wars and Profiteering that never ended and the Deep State WAS and IS that apparatus within Homeland Security that makes it more akin to GoldmannSachs than it does to a group dedicated to Protecting our Nation.
The People go hungry, many on the streets, yet the military has plenty of money for bombs, missiles and tons of fuel in the middle east?
We have our top offices full of right wing crooks who would normally be in prison if they were ever CAUGHT running a company the way they do their offices, and yet we have McConnell who has personally approved each and every one of these inept, investigation ridden administration grifters and conmen that have been appointed by His Senateness, Mitch, along with folks like Kavenaugh, who should step down in utter disgrace for his actions and lies under Senate Panel Questioning.
The Deep State is Complaining Loudest about The Deep State.
Very very sad.
3
@GRH: But wait! The Patriot act was a Republican authored bill that was passed in 2001 by the Republican controlled Congress during the George Bush, Republican Administration. Doesn't that make it a Republican and not a Democrat law?
Wasn't Brenna a Republican appointee? Isn't the Present Administration and Congress controlled by the Republicans?
So how does it all become Obama's fault instead of the Republicans?
3
@GRH Ahh, another claim the "deep state" exists. Please, provide citations that indicate there is a real deep state.
This where I agree with Trump. There is a deep state. I deep state that consists too the majority of patriotic Americans working in good faith to do the right thing by the American people. Yes the intelligence communities were all aligned against Trump but no one seems to ever ask–WHY? Because the answer is right in front of all of us, that here was someone that assumed massive power and was using that power to enrich himself at the expense of the country he was entrusted to serve. He was, and is, a threat that those very agency's to guard against. If they didn't then they would have reduced themselves to nothing.
In this case the "deep" state is deep indeed–it's the large majority of the American public. It's like a traitor declaring the FBI was out to get him and that (they were out to get him) is sufficient reason to be exonerated from any wrong doing!
In this case, l'etat c'est moi, or ALL of us.
37
I have to wonder how the very conservative career agents of the FBI like being accused of being part of a "deep-state cabal in control of the FBI".
Do the conspiracy theorists like Adam Lovinger, Jerome Corsi, Dennis Cain, George Papadopoulos and Richard Pollock actually believe their own conspiracy theories? Or have they just decided that these bizarre accusations represent a get-out-of-jail-free card?
28
The “deep” state Trump and his fellow grifters refer is the rot and decay of their Administration in a nutshell. They see it without acknowledgement. The incompetence and venality of their operation is so deep and ingrained, it is unrecognizable.
31
@DENOTE MORDANT When Trump and his apologists, and fellow grifters, refer to a "deep" state I think of the depth of the swamp....The swamp Trump repopulated.
The Devil made me do it.
The Devil made me do it!
Salem, MA
1692
13
I'll take Winona Ryder over Donald Trump any day.
" hostile career bureaucrats" Al Capone's lawyer might have wanted that one. Funny how criminals and people who do things like wave classified documents around on commercial air flights feel persecuted when they're being prosecuted.
The wife of one of Illinois' properly-convicted former governors is trying that approach, because she finds it impossible to face the reality that her hubby Rod decided to commit crimes. But now she's also trying to prey on Trump's fear of doing time himself.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-blagojevich-trump-clemency-20181217-story.html
5
@b fagan Thanks for the link. Best column I've read all week (and it's only Tuesday).
The only state that is "deep" in all of this is the gullibility of Trump's deluded followers and the cynicism of hacks like Gohmert and the increasingly pitiful Grassley.
20
Mr. Corsi: “I guess I am going to have to go to prison for the rest of my life because I dare to oppose the deep state,” According to him, he just "misremembered" - oops! The only thing he misremembered is that it is a crime to lie to criminal investigators. No, Mr. Corsi and others like him are destined for prison because they are liars who believe they are above the law.
30
@Tom you mean like Trump?
“Destined for prison because they are liars who believe they are above the law”
Very serious subject, "the Deep State".
Not as sexy as "Deep Throat"
Cannot stand alone as "Deep State"
Don't know what the "State" of "Deep" is.
Suppose its a reference to the "Bogey Man"
Watch out the "Bogey Man will get you!
3
When is the last time anybody just admitted they made a mistake and apologized for it? And now, blaming the "deep state"? What's next--aliens made me do it? Just admit you were wrong, or stupid, or broke the law, and say you're sorry. What is so hard about that?
12
All of Lawyer Bigley's clients relying on conjecture about "Deep State" are going to lose bigly. When Lawyer Bigley gets sued bigly for malpractice, he too should claim a "Deep State" conspiracy and that jury can laugh bigly.
9
Wait a minute—he read a top-secret paper in public, and when he loses his security clearance he's complaining? Yes, and I got a ticket for jay-walking last week—it must have been the deep state out to get me too!
Except when I made that argument in municipal court they meanly said I still had to pay the ticket. And so it will be with these guys. The President and his minions can engage in this kind of defense in the court of public opinion if they like, and they may get some play on Fox News or Twitter. But what matters in the end is not the court of public opinion but the court of law, which doesn't care about your conspiracy theories but only how you may have broken the law.
Some advice—I'm now very careful about how I cross the street, and I'd advise President Trump and his followers to exercise similar caution. Oh that's right, it's probably too late for them.
12
Unfortunately, given the incredible abuses uncovered by the Church Commission; Iran-Contra; and even under Obama, such as John Brennan's CIA spying on the Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee (and then Brennan brazenly lying about it); or James Clapper's NSA mass warrantless surveillance of US citizens on American soil (and then lying about it, perjuring himself in front of Congress), the deep state has done itself no favors and makes it easy for people to claim this defense. We elected President Obama, in part, because as a former Constitutional Law professor, he was supposed to end this kind of nonsense. Instead, he brought zero accountability when Brennan and Clapper lied. There was no "Mueller Commission" to investigate or prosecute Clapper's perjury and force American attention on the need to amend and reform the insanity of the Patriot Act.
3
@GRH Too bad, considering we were in the middle of a Great Recession, people losing their jobs and houses, passed the ACA that allowed people to at least get insurance that made it possible for them to get some form of health care....don't forget about the fact that as soon as Obama was elected, the "gang of eight" deep state sat down one night to declare that the Republicans would not work with our President on anything! Dang, he must of missed that one. Obama achieved a lot in his tenure, real progress on many fronts. Must have been quite effective because since then Trump and his sycophants have worked to roll back anything and everything he accomplished.
3
@GRH Let's face it: both Obama and Hillary were what we used to call 'moderate Republicans' back when that party was at least semi-respectable.
1
The people who peddle the “deep state” conspiracy, whether they are civil servants, lawyers, or members of the Trump family, are symptomatic of a deeper issue: distrust. In essence, they are saying that no one who works for the government, in any capacity, can ever be trusted to do their job with independence and personal ethics. They are talking about members of the military, the FBI, the IRS (which, if this were true, would long ago have leaked Trump’s tax returns) - every department that supports the functioning of this, and every, administration. Think of the implications if this were true. It would be truly Orwellian. Obviously, this is not the case. By sowing distrust these people are undermining our institutions of government and the rule of law itself. While human errors must be corrected and bad actors punished, this wholesale conspiracy has got to be debunked. Transparency is the best disinfectant. Our elected leaders - especially on the GOP side - must speak up. When they spout nonsense, like Louis Gohmert, they should be called out by their colleagues and the media. Conspiracy peddlers need to be forced back under the rocks where they used to live.
10
@LizziemaeF
Conspiracy people have to much free time on their hands. If they really had to work hard for their salaries they wouldn't have time to be members of the Twilight Zone radio and tv networks. Of course the fact that they are making a ton of money off of these birther theories, helps them live the life style they want without getting there fat fingers dirty. Corsi and the rest of them are a disgrace to everything that is a democratic America.
They hate everything and hide behind the cloak of the deep state. That theory is played out and it is time stop he white noise no one believes anything these people are selling. Con men and women to the end.
The majority of FBI and other security people working at the federal level are registered republicans, that is a fact. I believe this "deep state" claim as much as I would a 5 year old's claim that there's a boogey man in his closet. Actually a five year old has more credibility that these adults.
7
Everything is flawed but it is now beyond that.
2
Substitute the word "law" every time a Republican mentions "deep state" and the GOP's vision of government becomes that much clearer!
13
Those of us who remember J. Edgar Hoover would never suggest the FBI was above questionable tactics, but the way Donald Trump undermines the Bureau and the Justice Department is reckless.
The president is under investigation. His family is under investigation. The acting AG is under investigation. Several cabinet members are under investigation and others have resigned under threat.
Right now, we must rely on the probity and rectitude of the FBI and the Justice Department to hold onto the American criminal justice standards we have come to know and understand.
9
I wonder if these defendants realize that they are hereafter finished in their chosen professions and are looking to create their own brands within the conservative conspiracy world. It's fairly clear that there are millions of Americans out there who will believe anything they're told so long as it's critical of Donald Trump's enemies. So, if you've been accused of mishandling classified material and you're unlikely to get your preferred job back, then why not present yourself as a martyr for Trump and then start writing books and appearing on Fox News? Evidently, there's money to be made targeting the gullible and it doesn't seem to take a lot of skill, just a willingness to sacrifice your own integrity and throw American law enforcement under the bus.
3
And this tack will work. If you repeat something enough to a gullible audience, it starts to become true.
2
The funny thing is the Deep State is ostensibly the GOP.
They just don't realize yet.
Perhaps they will wake up one day and see what they have become.
10
Maybe Jake Blues said it best.
“No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!”
5
So if republicans and conservatives are so smart, how come they can't create their own deep state? It sounds like an enviable system that allows its members to operate with complete impunity outside the limitations of law.
3
@J.I.M. They are in the process of creating a deep state now. It's otherwise known as the Trump Administration.
Deep state = US citizens employed in government.
4
The Trump regime has help total control of the government for 2 years and have the solid backing of Fox state tv. The GOP are in control of the state .Hillary is a private citizen with no direct powers .Trump has a lackey Attorney General and congress crying the govt is picking on him as if he were still a candidate. Trump's cult of followers believe anything he tweets and are prepared to go off the cliff with him but 60 percent of us see Don the Con for who he is more will join us as the 17 legal proceedings continue vs the rule of the Trump family .truth is the enemy of Trump always has been.
8
America does live within a "deep state," commonly called "the rule of law."
11
Clearly there is at least a form of a deep state - layers of lifetime bureaucrats that are willing to coordinate to resist the politics and policies of new administrations. They group in smallish numbers according to political similarities, duty assignments, and physical proximity. They are undeclared and operate under the radar. But the actual power of these people is hard to estimate. It is probably true that their power is self limiting because greater action triggers greater exposure.
3
@Captain Obvious If that is the case, then with this administration's cabinet investigations and people dropping out of government due to these investigations, one could say the Peter Principle is setting in for them as they have WAY Overplayed their hand.
I would suggest popcorn, salt and butter futures for the next year or so.
The defense claim that the documents were mistakenly marked as classified or top secret is moot. They may well have been but it is not up to the defendant to decide that. Until they are declassified they must be treated in accordance to how they were classified.
13
@Paulie
Exactly, now explain why no charges were brought against Hillary Clinton for emailing classified material...
1
@Knute
As Colin Powell and and a number of others did similar emailing. Because the government servers were often inoperable, and the Secretary of State must be able to communicate in a timely manner and (sigh) the constant references to Clinton, et al. are bogus. Past history. And SHE was courageous and right enough to stare down the insufferable Trey Gowdy for 11 hours and he came up with bupkus. Keep your eye on the present AND/OR read real history, not Fox news...
@Knute: Hilary Clinton emailed classified material using an unclassified email account to people who were authorized to receive the classified material. She do not email classified material to people who had no legal right to see it. What she did was stupid but not illegal.
So it's become fashionable in right-wing circles to attack the "deep state" for enforcing the law. Thanks, Donald, for showing true leadership on this. Anybody who is reading classified information on an airplane, or taking it home, or sharing it with foreigners, is violating the law and knows it. I used to think that Democrats in Washington showed the more cavalier attitude towards maintaining the security of classified information, and less commitment to national security issues generally, but the situation has entirely reversed. Today, Republicans are entirely dedicated to making money from anyone regardless of what it might mean for our country while Democrats defend our Constitution and people at home and our national interests abroad. It's not even close.
40
May your changing opinion be reflected when you vote!
3
Didn't the Deep State(Republicans), citing concern about the security of the nation and respect for adhering to laws, investigate Ms. Clinton about Benghazi for four years? She had a thorough grilling before Congress.With all that in mind,let's forge ahead, for the good of the nation, to the completion of the Mueller investigation. Adding, perhaps too, President Trump should be called to testify.
25
Like never before, the events of the past year have illumined the deep state, which fights the President tooth and nail and strives to undermine him on a daily basis. By eagerly participating in that undermining while regularly pooh-poohing attempts to characterize it as such, the Times continues to cynically abet the unraveling of our democracy. It has become painfully obvious that acquiescence to powerful interests embedded in federal government has been an inexorable imperative for U.S. presidents. Trump’s resistance to that imperative is a testament to his principled commitment to the values he shares with the millions who elected him.
3
@Admiral,
First time Trump and "principled" have appeared in the same sentence. What is "painfully obvious" is the utter lack of proof or motive to any of these "deep state" claims.
10
@Admiral
Principled commitment? Who, really, are you going to believe? The prostitute or Putin's puppet. Science or faith based wish fulfillment?
6
@Admiral
Imperious laughter abounds after reading this.
6
Laws don't prosecute suspects, people do. People with a moral compass, guiding them in deciding which cases to prioritize, in deciding who represents a menace vs. who broke the law, but isn't an immediate threat.
Call morality a "deep state" or whatever you like: it's the glue holding democracy's framework together, making it possible. Count me in. Bring it on.
12
In both cases of Lovinger and Cain what they did was simply wrong. They broke the rules regarding the handling of classified information. Lovinger should not have displayed classified documents in public. Cain should not have taken classified information home. All the deep state excuses in justifying their behavior doesn't change this fact. That they don't admit what they did was wrong but make excuses instead makes me have no sympathy for them or be willing to place any reliance into their deep state theory.
13
@P Lock If there is a 'Deep State' that was in their offices, who 'hold themselves as above the law and have little concern about following or breaking the laws', then it must be they, themselves who are the Deep Staters since they were the ones caught breaking the laws thinking they were above such.
Really funny how the logic of that all plays out even thinking about it a Little Bit.
1
We have a deep pocketed global cabal that has infiltrated governments across the globe and they are both republicans and democrats who will do whatever to hold on to their fortunes and power over the world. That has been going on for the last 40 years and prior to that went on during the Gilded age late 1800's and Robber Barons of the 20's and 30's.
Projections at it heights. Years of no accountability of Presidents and Politicians and corporate conglomerate bad behavior has gotten to this chaotic times.
Remind one of Hillary Clinton in the 90's calling it a right wing conspiracy. She was right. Repulicans fought her on healthcare improvements and never again worded to improve our fraudulent health industry. and here we are close to 2020 and they are tearing down what little improvements were made by ACA. They have no plan.
7
Here's what troubles me: time and again, we've seen that the very behavior conservatives accuse others of is behavior that they themselves are engaging in. Vote-rigging? See North Carolina. Activist judges? See the Texas ruling that threw out the ACA. Using family foundations for political purposes? See the Trump Foundation. Fake news? See Fox News.
So is there a deep state? Probably in some sense: there's a government infrastructure that persists and perpetuates itself irrespective of presidential administrations. But what are the priorities of that deep state? Who gets targeted and why? If the conservatives are screaming about it being done to them, they're almost certainly the ones doing it to others. That's why they're so paranoid: they know it can be done.
29
And don’t forget accusing “crooked Hillary” of using a private non-secure email server as SoS when Trump uses a non-encrypted phone as President.
5
The use of “deep state” as a defense is reminiscent of the Family Circus cartoon, where a ghost-like character called “Not Me” was to blame for the misdeeds of the little children. The illegal activities allegedly committed by these adults, who claim to be targeted by the deep state, will be tried in court, where hopefully the judges/juries will be moved by actual law and reality, not by the “Not Me” deep state invented by those desperate to get out of jail free.
7
During college football's recent Rivalry Weekend I looked to watch the Trump U vs. Deep St. game.
No network broadcast that game. Neither school exists.
2
While "even paranoids have enemies" is true--the key question when Trump people cite the deep state is a bigger one.
What is the driving motivation of the Trump administration ?
It is patently clear that candidate Trump had a quid pro quo deal with the Russians--'get me elected and I will alter US policy, sanctions, NATO alliances, etc.'
Trump's appointees did not drain the swamp- they served corporate interests and degraded competent governance as well as profited personally in big corruptions of office.
Accusations of partisan use of the deep state try to reduce all federal law enforcement as tainted. This is the ultimate corruption of democratic society. It replaces rational, fact-based justice with a petty political framework.
Throughout the history of the USA, each party has mostly found a way to hold power without dismantling key institutions or making secret deals with foreign governments.
How ironic that Trump acts as though 'secure borders' are essential to him via a Wall when he has promoted an 'invasion' of America by Russian interests that support him personally and undermine our sovereignty ! (Where is Steven Miller on that ??)
5
It is probably unintended flattery for the Deep State, but the more that white collar criminals are apprehended and prosecuted, the more the swamp can start to look again like the beautiful and natural wetland it should be, rather than like the polluted dumping ground for the unclean and sordid types that Trump favors.
8
I think we have found the "Deep State." It is that group of individuals that believe in the US Constitution, Federal and State Laws and want to see them upheld. The opponents of the "Deep State" want to see an authoritarian government that is dedicated to protecting their lily white male privilege.
11
This is the chicken little defense. After a time, and I think that time is mighty close, no one is going to pay attention to these nonsensical utterances.
2
Always easiest to blame someone else.
Deep state conspiracy?
Where are Scully and Mulder?
7
Oppositional Defiant Disorder: ODD; Source- Mayo Clinic: The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, lists criteria for diagnosing ODD.
Angry and irritable mood:
• Often and easily loses temper
• Is frequently touchy and easily annoyed by others
• Is often angry and resentful
Argumentative and defiant behavior:
• Often argues with adults or people in authority
• Often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
• Often deliberately annoys or upsets people
• Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
Vindictiveness:
• Is often spiteful or vindictive
• Has shown spiteful or vindictive behavior at least twice in the past six months
ODD can vary in severity:
• Mild. Symptoms occur only in one setting, such as only at home, school, work or with peers.
• Moderate. Some symptoms occur in at least two settings.
• Severe. Some symptoms occur in three or more settings.
For some children, symptoms may first be seen only at home, but with time extend to other settings, such as school and with friends.
3
Everything nasty Trump and his people say about their enemies is really about themselves.
It's as though they don't realize how transparent and self-evident their baseness and criminality are, nor how primitive their attempts at deflection.
Case in point: when they refer to a liberal "deep state," they reveal that they themselves are subversive to the integrity and reputation of the government. They are there to USE the government as a facade for promoting their own financial interests, while undermining it.
Boss Tweet is the new Boss Tweed times a thousand.
7
The real deep state is the right wing authoritarian infiltration (by way of Republican judicial appointees and gerrymandered voting districts) of the American Justice System.
8
"Mr. Lovinger has found a champion in Representative Louie Gohmert" says it all!
6
Have you heard?
That conservative conspiracy theorist who is suing Mueller over his plea deal lie has just added another charge, leaking to the press.
1
It's not the Deep State or bias if you're simply & actually a crook.
7
Where do I apply for the Deep State?
2
Translates to “I can’t think of a convincing denial right now.....”
4
Deep state! Geeeeeez! These conservative crooks always have an outrageous excuse, like "they do it too" or "everyone lies." They sound like four year olds caught in some naughtiness!
I highly recommend that people listen to Rachel Maddow's "Bag Man" podcast about Spiro Agnew and his crimes. He and his millions of Republican supporters (because unlike Donald, Nixon-Agnew won in a landslide!) believed that Nixon and Agnew were being targeted by a witch hunt by "the sore losers" Democrats! Sound familiar?
What have Republicans done for America? Zip. But crime, cheating, lying, conspiracy theories...voter suppression.....and now, collusion with our sworn enemy and the enemy of democracy...Russia!
8
The lawyer’s comment that the document was over classified has no validity. If it was, prior to reading it in public the person that removed the document from its container should have requested its classification be reduced. Rules for handling are provided to all who handle that level of classification.
4
@John Storvick ~
Reminds me of the issues with "classified" documents being handled by Hillary's server.
Only FOUR had markings, and those were in the text itself. Several hundred others will classified after the fact, and even they were mostly low level, with some containing information that was already public.
My, how the standards can change.
4
The chicken or the egg? Which came first? Trump's unique deep state mantra? Or the wider use of trite fictions by lesser outliers? It was the latter IMO.
The number of deep state conspiracy theorists and theories are and have been multiplying for years. Don't blame Trump or make him out to be the first. He doesn't deserve that recognition. He is a Johnny come lately in a long line of conservative grifters each with a talent for seizing and profiting on good conspiracy scams.
The better question is: Why are these conspiracy theories so popular? And the answer IMO is that they are a crutch or a commodity like excuse for those unable to fathom complex issues - Trump's base.
14
“I guess I am going to have to go to prison for the rest of my life because I dare to oppose the deep state,” Mr. Corsi said.
We now have a new front-runner in the Top 10 "Why I am in prison" excuses.
Awesome, just awesome.
29
These “patriots” they break the law for profit like any old crook then whine “deep state” when caught. There should be a new rule, anyone invoking the “deep state” defense automatically gets exiled to Russia where they can experience a real deep state.
27
By "deep state" they mean the Constitution and the Rule of Law, right?
55
I've never seen any evidence of a deep state.
Gosh! Those guys are good.
12
The only thing deep here is the trump swamp and all of these people are standing waist deep in it. Had Hillary supporters done this conservatives would be screaming "lock them up".
18
Such a convoluted web woven by Republicans that always leads back to that dastardly Obama. Republican zombie voters will eat this up! They can't get enough!
I can't wait until Republican "leaders" fall into the traps they unwittingly have set for themselves. Judge Reed will lead their march into dark obscurity.
14
I write this from beneath my bed because I am so scared. There are just too many boogeymen for me to feel safe. We have the spooky "deep-state." We have vote-rigging. We have Isis (and leprosy!) coming across the border. Perjury traps have been set everywhere. Whenever I see anyone now with calves the size of cantaloupes, I break out in a cold sweat.
Next we will hear that Lassie was wearing a wire.
20
For over thirty years we've had to hear and put up with the Trump crime family---lets hope the end is in sight.
19
A pet peeve: A "theory" is a rational, evidenced-based explanation of data. Paranoid, fantasy-based right-wing fever dreams are not "theories." The phrase "conspiracy theory" should be retired immediately
23
The nation is lucky that a Navy intel officer was sitting next to Lovinger, and not a curious reporter, or worse, a foreign agent. He should have been stripped of his clearance immediately, not six months later.
12
The country needs to build an expansive prison for this select but growing daily gang of Trump!
12
Having to be told that lying to the FBI is against the law is mind boggling. And further a man who has dabbled in government should be told that is mind spinning. Being ignorant of the law doesn't make you innocent of a crime. Shame on Flynn.
7
Only cowards can't take responsibility for their actions and have invoke a Deep State and a bully to protect them.
11
Yes, the deep state only targets real Americans - the ones that are clearly the most dangerous and intelligent. There are not too many of them luckily so the deep state has also been busy setting up more child prostitution rings in your local pizzerias. Because there is no limit to the wonderful imagination of mankind there is no limit to the terrible things the deep state has done or will do. Without the deep state people would pay attention to and be afraid of Trump which of course would be all wrong. As the enemy of the deep state Trump is clearly another one of God's sons sent here to straighten us all out. Just you wait - he'll be telling us all about it real soon.
10
In the long-term, some cases like these will go trial. Then, they'll only need to sucker one juror. People don't realize just how much damage Trump is doing to the criminal justice system. We'll find out in the long term, as we see more hung juries with members that watch Fox News. It almost happened with the Manafort trial already.
9
Yes, the “deep state”, meaning a system of laws that treats everyone the same and is not subject to control by any particular self interested persons or groups are exceedingly irksome and so must be depicted as an evil conspiracy. We have seen these right wing sociopaths hammering away at our liberal democracy for half a century, now, and it’s getting old.
10
Here's the strategy.
1. Find lots of people too stupid to see the utter disconnect between believing in "wasteful, inefficient Big Government" and an expert, hyper-efficient conspiracy machine.
2. Get them all hopped up on the pure idiocy of all these conspiracy theories.
3. Jump aboard like it is a well known and serious set of ideas.
"Deep state." I have to admit, it makes me giggle every time I hear someone spout it.
7
Thank you to the Naval Intelligence Officer who reported Lovinger. We should all be glad the person sitting next to the lax Mr. Lovinger wasn't a Russian agent.
7
Ok, let's go through this again for the approximately one-third of the American public that still supports Trump and his band of 'Merry Indicted Men". There is no "Deep State". There are no "Alt-Facts". There is no conspiracy to oust Trump. Open your eyes as you're being "conned" and have been since this oaf announced his candidacy.
Now he goes off to Palm Beach for two weeks of "rest and respite", to quote his own "fibbers". Why? By most reports he is the laziest President in our history. Keep going Mr. Mueller and please give us a Christmas present this country and the planet need.
35
Mr Bigley: "Deep State Defense" architect. Name checks out.
4
The GOP & Trump control the leavers of power but yet the deep state - Obama, Clinton's, and Soros -really control the government? What happened to the Rothchilds and the Illuminati? Studies show that about 30% of us are hard wired for unfounded conspiracy theories.So go to Sam's Club and by bulk Aluminum Foil as "they" are coming to take your guns, your beer, and your confederate flag. "They" might even take your Russian memes.
9
The "Deep State". Yet another fairy tale invented by the right creating boogeymen out of thin air. Just like "welfare queens", migrants, unions, transgender people, and emails.
8
This isn’t the first time where up is down and black is white.
The Deep State isn’t the entrenched democratic institutions of this country the way republicans would like you to believe.
If there is a Deep State, it is the ‘behind the curtain puppet masters’ of the far-right... neo-fascists that have been plotting their antidemocratic agenda for a decade.
10
Conspiracy theories are a mental illness. No difference between Trump’s and the 9/11 “truthers”.
Better to try to understand who is using conspiracy theories to control you.
11
You want to see a victim of political bias in government prosecution -- look no further than Andrew McCabe. In firing -- James Comey. Of real witch hunts -- Bruce Ohr, Lisa Page, Peter Strzok.
You can be sure that if right wing "conservatives" are making allegations, it is pure projection. They use the "state" for their benefit, to go after perceived enemies, and through delusion or intentional misdirection, or both, cast blame on others for doing what they are the ones doing.
The cast of scoundrels, blowhards, and know nothings in this matter -- Gohmert (!), Corsi and Grassley, and many more not named in this article (including the vain, narcissistic, grifter-in -hief) is legendary. Plus Uranium One! Do I hear a Benghazi!?
You want to be in a position to be entrusted with the most strategically confidential information this country possesses -- abide by the rules. It's that simple. If you take actions that show you can't be trusted, face the consequences.
The deep, deep rot of the so-called conservatives in this country is oozing and toxic and making us all chronically ill.
12
“The rules must be followed,” unless you are Hillary Clinton...
1
...said the person with absolutely no facts to back up his claims.
6
@Knute
A true delusional belief if ever one was heard....and a conservative canard, to boot.
If you think Secretary Clinton is guilty of something, prove it. Oh, wait. You can't, and not for lack of trying, either. How many investigations? How many millions of dollars? And yet at no point has there been found anything which warranted criminal charges (they have discovered, however, she isn't perfect). And this is over decades.
Trump's administration hasn't been in power two years and there are how many associated convictions? I've lost track.
7
@KnuteSo if we agree to send Hillary Clinton to jail for the private server if convicted, will you agree to boot Trump if he is impeached for crimes on solid evidence?
3
Sure, there’s a “deep state” but it isn’t the overarching conspiracy that Trump and his apologists claim is responsible for all of their self-inflicted problems. The real deep state consists of all of the thousands of federal, state and local government employees who go about their jobs day after day and year after year. These are the career civil servants that aren’t political appointees and do their jobs no matter who is president, governor, mayor etc. Think of it more as a “deep bench” of folks that keep the country operating - defending it, keeping us safe, enforcing the laws. The various morons cited in this article deserve to be punished.
13
@David DiRoma
That deep bench deserves far more credit than it ever receives, too. Thanks for remembering them and acknowledging the work they do for all of us.
3
Deep state does not exist
Though Trump is a communist operative
4
Pathetic and desperate ploys by criminals
7
That compliance with the law is associated with supporters of a former President or members of a specific political party should surprise no one. That compliance with the law should be raised as a partisan issue is shocking.
6
When looking at the depth of the swamp in Washington, the deep state is not quite deep enough to root out all the dwellers.
3
I just finished my employer's mandatory annual "Insider Threat Training" - it's not rocket science. You breach security protocols you get busted. Reading secret stuff on airplanes is a breach. If it was improperly labeled "secret", there's a process to reclassify. Follow the rules and you won't show up on the "deep state" radar.
16
The lawyers of the guilty always want to find someone else who is "really" or "more" at fault. Someone else is guilty, not my client. If my client inadvertently did something wrong it is because someone else did something wrong. They, the police, my clients enemies, the "deep state" are the culprits who we really need to be looking at. Not my client, he is the victim.
One thing about having a practiced con man like Trump in the White House is we are learning a lot about the world of fraud. We will be learning much more in the weeks and months to come. Hopefully by 2020, we will recognize a con when we see it, and not elect one on the state or federal level.
10
Lovinger and Cain were granted security clearances at one time, presumably in conjunction with work they were doing.
Along with the clearance comes the responsibility to protect everything about the information to which you have been given access, including keeping documents in a secure facility, not discussing with others outside such a facility, and certainly not reading on a plane within sight of others.
These two guys failed to take such precautions and deserve to be prosecuted. No Deep State, just the FBI doing its job.
12
The problem with security clearances is that once they are issued, they are never reviewed for continued need.
Bad policy, worse practice.
1
I do not know anything about a deep state. However, I do believe in equal justice for all. I am no fan of Trump either. If he broke the law he should go to jail. No one is above the law. The same goes for Hillary Clinton. She broke the law by allowing classified documents place on her home server/computer. The law does not say anything about intent and James Comes had no right in letting her off the hook. The young seaman served a year in jail for taking pictures inside a submarine. We will encourage a deep state if allow unequal justice, due to political circumstances.
3
Please identify the "law" Hillary Clinton broke. Her use of her server may have been ill-advised, but as a person with 2 decades of Data Center Security under my belt, she I know she did not break any laws on the books at the time.
It's happening now as I write this response!
2
Using an imaginary "deep state" as a foil to excuse or obfuscate criminal activity has been a Republican ploy for a long time. What it comes down to is that organized crime doesn't like organized law enforcement.
8
Arguably, it is the contractor state, of which Mr. Lovinger was a part, rather than an octopus like deep state, which poses a threat to the Republic because contractors, unlike US government employees, owe their allegiance to corporate bosses rather than the Constitution of the United States, which officers of the federal government are sworn to support and defend.
We have contracted much of our prisons,detention centers, intelligence work (see the Snowden affair) and military activities to the private sector. A man connected to the Trump administration proposed turning over the fighting in Afghanistan to security firms, presumably because private companies would be freed of the restraints imposed by the Uniform Code of Military Justice on our troops, a recipe for more My Lai's.
If a classic coup d'erat ever occurs, it is likely the contractor state would carry it out, rather than the JCS.
7
I am so ashamed. Trump is turning my country into a third-world autocracy. A nation of laws - gone. Respect for law enforcement - only those who do Trump’s bidding.
Trump will be gone - 2 years, 6 years (God forbid) but the devastation he has done to our precious institutions will live beyond. We teach our children the lying is wrong (I do anyway) yet the President lies all the time and a General claims he didn’t know lying to the FBI was illegal (even if that’s true, why didn’t he know lying was wrong, why did he do things he had to lie about). What are the Trump supporters teaching their children? That’s the lasting danger to our society.
10
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
3
So when the time comes to clean house after Putin's puppet is gone, what of all the political appointees that have been seeded throughout the government, many of whom have no skills or ability in those positions which they've been placed, save for their fealty to Trumplandia. They will have to go, but what will Faux News do? Scream that it's a yet another witch hunt by the remnants of the deep state, looking to root out the true American patriots? Ugh, what a mess we're faced with.
3
The "Deep State", to Trumpublicans, is anyone in government who wants to see the laws and ethics standards enforced evenhandedly.
7
It's not fair - who knew there's a Department of Justice?
5
Mr. Trump is an illegitimate president, making the actions and appointments of this current administration not only illegitimate but illegal.
5
The "Deep State" is really Trump and the corporate puppet masters who are pulling his strings, strings that make him dance and move his jaws to emulate human speech. What they refer to as the Deep State is known as Democracy, and what they represent is autocracy/dictatorship.
5
The biggest problem with those associated with the Trump administration is that, prior to being appointed to a position of responsibility in the government, they were so used to ignoring ethical considerations while skirting around the written law, that they no longer were able to distinguish between right and wrong. Trump is the prime example of someone who lies so often that even he no longer knows if or when he is telling the Truth. It is sad when we place such morally bankrupt unethical "businessmen" like Trump in charge of our government. We now must really clean the muck and manure out of the Washington D.C. swamp.
5
Any of Trump's whiners who get caught in illegalities (which seems like all of them) and cry about the "deep state" should get double the penalties for refusing to take responsibility for their lawlessness.
6
"the document on the plane was improperly marked and contained no real top-secret information". Interesting claim. Can we determine what exact document it was? Or are we supposed to take this mope's word for it?
Color me dubious.
3
grown adults with no morals, ethics, or decency... no wonder it is so easy for them to lie that somebody else is responsible.
"only the best people" eh, trump?!?
5
Trump (and his ilk) fear the long standing, deeply rooted, conspiracy to uphold the law.
4
Thank God for the deep state. The so-called deep state are the institutions of government that are more or less independent of the political process, with its partisans twisting policy to ends that often have at-best tenuous connections to what government is supposed to be doing. It is the deep state in the Justice Department that is bringing indictments against the president's allies and supporters, because the Justice Department is supposed to uphold the law, not be an instrument for political retribution. The deep state is the employees of the EPA who are still trying to protect the environment. The deep state is the professionals in the State Department who are working to prevent relations with other nations from swirling down the drain of Trump's tweets. So, yes, Thank God for the deep state!
164
@JJM. Take care. If you were the least bit famous or if you found yourself in the public view, the very people who we both despise would take your words out of context, spin them and use them as "clear proof" for their ridiculous claims about a deep state,to which you've now admitted.
7
@JJM "Thank God for the deep state."
This is a sad view for any freedom loving American to endorse. A glimpse at American history - any period of it - reveals that unblinking trust in government is a fool's errand. You have to keep an eye on big government and be skeptical of it if you value your own freedom. Period.
@JJM
That is not the deep state, that is the white light of right vs wrong, love vs fear and hate.
4
The “deep state” is nothing more than a bunch of government employees who have professional and personal ethics and integrity, support the US Constitution and have respect for the American people, all things which trump has always seen and now sees as his enemy.
For trump and republicans there is no such things as professional or personal integrity and ethics, everyone has their price, everyone is motivated only by greedy and selfish motives and professionlal and personal ethics are nothing more than a liiberal marketing slogan. For trump if you have professional and personal ethics and integrity then you are his personal enemy.
This is further reinforced by the behaviour of the members of his administration
178
The problem with the deep state defense is more insidious then we think. It’s an argument based upon lies and deception. On the other hand hidden biases exist but there must be some significant proof in order to demonstrate curruption or reason to change laws.
The 14th amendment of the US Constitution provides equal protection under the law. It does not guarantee greater protection for the President’s friends, family, and political officials that are criminals. If all imprisonments are overturned based on Deep State theories, or Klan influence, or discrimination against serial killers and rapists, . . . we wouldn’t survive as a civilized nation.
Imagine what our country would be like if anyone in prison received an instant pardon by swearing loyalty to President Trump!
75
Tell us something we don't know. The entirety of Trump's life and his laughable so-called Administration is based on lies and deception.
9
Blame, hypocrisy, projection, conspiracy and lying from morning til night.
Republican family values.
Solutions ?
Good public policy ?
Good government ?
Ethics ?
No Republicans need apply.
Nice GOPeople.
16
Trump believes he and his devotees and FoxNews are America. He knows only how to campaign with and for them. So he devises every sort of nonsense knowing they’ll believe and repeat anything to continue their devotion to, and promotion of, him. The rest of us, i.e., the majority of Americans, most of the courts, the Constitution, & reality, are chugging along on the truth train. We know that Trump’s bubble is irrelevant except to these show biz loonies and the Congressional GOP (which will be leaving shortly). Press on, prosecutors. Press on, Democrats in the House. Press on, real journalists. You and we are what matters, not the latest tweet from the White House toilet.
38
How many readers have or know of children who lie constantly and when caught say someone else was responsible - the dog ate my homework - or say they are sorry then go on to do it all over again?
The people this article is talking about are supposed to be a cut above the rest of us - elites who attended military academies and/or elite private schools from kindergarten on.
Is that what they are taught? Lie and steal more than the next person? Or, as a friend of mine once said, "Fake it til you make it"? Are these the kind of people we are supposed to look up to and honor? Are these the kind of people we want running OUR country?
Sorry, boys and girls, the answer is NO. WE THE PEOPLE will purge your elite, sorry carcasses our of our governments at every level and hire/elect Socially Responsible people who will work for 99.9% of us.
61
"Deep State" is pure "projection." It is the polar opposite of the truth, a 'super lie.' Both projection and super lying are propaganda tools used daily by the Trumps and their collaborators. The REAL deep state is the tightly coordinated effort of American plutocrats - the Kochs and kin and their richly funded tool ALEC. All the right wing think tanks, the vast dark money pools, and the mob of bought-and-paid-for politicians make up a "Deep Anti-Democratic State," so naturally, they scream accusations about a purely fictitious deep state. They lie, and they lie with malign purpose. https://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2018/03/whats-super-lie.html
143
Yep, pretty much. With these clowns, tracking what they’re up to is depressingly easy—just watch what their accusations are.
7
@will duff Exactly. In Orwellian fashion they have stood language on its head. Deep State refers to the truly rich and powerful owners who make the decisions and pull the strings. They arrange for the judges, politicians, soldiers and bureaucrats who merely implement the will of the true ruling class. Now Trump and Co. have conveniently appropriated the term and redefined it to serve their ends when called out for their dishonesty. And, depressingly, it seems to be working.
1
Please remind me - wasn't Jerome Corsi one of the authors of The Swift Boat Smear against John Kerry? That was certainly a creditable endeavor. it is difficult to imagine why anyone would not believe Mr. Corsi's current claims that he is being persecuted for ". . . oppos[ing] the deep state. . . ." It seems his entire life has been about fleshing out hard right wing theories. He does seem rather a nebbish. I guess he feels he needs extraordinary attention by whatever means, truth be damned.
60
@A Good Lawyer Yes, he was! Every time I'm reminded of that disgusting smear it makes me so angry that it got the slightest traction. One thing you can 'take to the bank'.....the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" had little to do with veterans and nothing to do with the truth.
4
@A Good Lawyer,
Please note that Jerome Corsi graduated from Harvard and led the birther movement against President Obama. People bought his nonsense rather than learn that the offspring of an American citizen is an American citizen regardless of place of birth.
Corsi's life work speaks volumes for a Harvard education. Harvard should rescind his diploma.
2
Only in Trump's America can total fabrication be twisted into alleged truth
73
No matter how we label it, the ploy of the defense is, " I'm not the problem, it's the evil investigators who are corrupt. In many 3rd world or autocratic countries this may be the case; however considering the source of the complaints here at home, I suspect the court system will ignore these baseless complaints. Of course without any institutions our POTUS is progressively destroying this could happen today in the USA.
18
Yes, Donald et al., there is a "deep state"—well, let's call it a "higher state," also known as justice. It is following you and will catch up to you eventually.
75
So is Trump trying to bring Coal back by being naughty?
3
@Wiltontraveler
I sure hope so but history tells us that accountability for the rich does not happen often or it is the lower level serfs that get thrown under the bus.
2
Let's clear something up: there is no "deep state." And sorry to break this to you around the holidays, but Santa isn't real either. Are there dark government programs that involve illicit clandestine activities? Absolutely. The Snowden files shed light on all kinds of dubious programs the N.S.A. had done. After Vietnam and Watergate, no one will say there aren't shadowy parts of our government.
Like any conspiracy theory, while there's a kernel of truth in the idea of a "deep state," people take completely unrelated events and string together bizarre narratives - like Robert Ludlum novels come to life. It's a combination of confirmation bias, the Dunning-Kruger effect, an inability to distinguish between weak correlation and causation, and not understanding that nothing can be disproved with 100% certainty. Taken to an extreme, it's how we get a Satan-worshipping Hillary Clinton who runs a child sex slave ring out of a pizza parlor - all of which is part of the "deep state."
A "deep-state defense" is a now legacy bequeathed by President Trump, our Conspiracy Theorist in Chief. Never, ever accept blame, and when possible, shift responsibility to something that can never be disproved. After all, a lack of concrete evidence is just more evidence for how deep the deep state is.
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@jrinsc
Please review the number of top people at the FBI and DOJ that have been fired or demoted and get back to us...
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@Knute
Thank you for providing an example of my point.
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@Knute...you need a whole team of therapists.
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Go to any prison in the world, and 99% of the prisoners will tell you that they are innocent and they were framed.
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Regarding the handling of S and TS classified documents and material: Your clearance requires S- and TS-level refreshers every year of your 10-year clearance, you sign an understanding of conditions, you are not the declassifier (I can read this anywhere, no you can't), you are NOT to draw attention to yourself by showing the classified covers (or wear a uniform), and the Naval officer acted appropriately - followed training and orders. Egotists should not have clearances.
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Well, you could be a declassification authority, but the documents would then have proper declassification markings on them as well. And to clarify, no, you can’t declassify it IN public, as it would have to already be declassified, and marked as such, to be brought there.
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The only defense I see here is: "I didn't do it but if I did it was not illegal." I don't know of Trump's very large brain or Giuliani's addled one dreamed up this brilliant bit of juridical nonsense but I doubt it will fly.
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Distraction and Chaos State. I believe when trump leaves office, he will have bankrupted the country. These individuals are organized crime figures and rather than threatening a neighborhood like Whitey Bulger, they threaten the world then cry 'victim'. I remember, years ago, in Washington Square Park, the fellow that set up a cardboard carton and hid a quarter under a walnut shell in a shell game. While he shuffled the shells about, a friend of his surveyed the pocketbooks of those who were watching that quarter. The administration is that shell game. And like all good sociopath gamers, 'I am a victim!' will be the cry when they are caught red handed.
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Do the crime do the time! Prosecutions are always targeted so now snowflakes don't bother to whine just do the time.
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One may forgive a child for embracing conspiracy theories, but there's no arguing with an adult whose personality, character and belief system has fully formed into what it shall be for the rest of his life. I've tried reasoning with deep-state conspiracy theorists. It's hopeless. The solution is teaching children philosophy. The deep state has no defense against metaphysics, epistemology, ethics.
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The beauty of this so-called defense is that it took an existing meme, the Deep State, and redefined it on the fly to suit the needs of Trump or of these other accused people. The term Deep State has been around for quite a while, referring to various dark operations by government intelligence and military forces. But its use in these cases is to deliberately invoke conspiracy theories and similar paranoia about how we are all being run by a secret government. In the case of the FBI its use is particularly exquisite. It invites us to forget all of the documented abuses by that agency against the left and the civil rights movement in the 1960s and 70s and to think that somehow it is now being run by the liberal left and the Clinton foundation. Somehow in this view J. Edgar Hoover has become Hillary Clinton. Cointellpro is now the Comey conspiracy.
We have stepped through the looking glass.
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@Allfolks Equal
Well said. The "deep state" meme is similar to the appropriation of "fake news" by President Trump and his supporters. Now everything the NY Times reports is "fake news" - unless it's a story to President Trump's liking.
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@Allfolks Equal "Somehow in this view J. Edgar Hoover has become Hillary Clinton." Well, they do dress the same.
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In their attempt to remove themselves from responsibility for their actions, these people are causing interminable and irresponsible damage to our country and its institutions. They have no shame.
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@BMD Kind of reminds you of the Precedent, doesn't it?
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@BMDI agree. And who is leading this attack on the rule of law and long established institutions.
OUR PRESIDENT!
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I don't know, this defense worked out pretty well for the kids in The Family Circus. That pesky ghost Not Me sure got them into a lot of trouble!
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This deep state nonsense needs to be deep sixed. The paranoid style should not be normalized. - with apologies to Richard J. Hofstadter.
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