Missing in this discussion is the fact that tech companies in general have not supported American tech workers with retraining opportunities. Instead, they relied heavily on H1-B and L1 visas. Being in tech sales, I have seen hordes of foreign workers brought on board to do all sorts of work that could have been done by American workers. The usual winy excuse that companies cannot find the right skills is baloney: give people the right incentive and opportunity, and they will rise to the occasion.
The only candidate or official who spoke forcefully about these abuses was... trump! Hearing people discuss these issues in the workplace gave me the insight back in April 2016 that he would win.
5
The geniuses in WI state gov't just agreed to pay Kimberley-Clark millions to keep jobs here. This, after giving away the farm to foreign corp, Fox-Conn.
This is what socialism for the rich looks like. It'd be funny if it weren't so bigly sad.
4
If we actually had a real government that was by the people for the people we would make it illegal for any company operating in the United States to place its money in any bank outside of the country, or still be forced to pay tax (at a higher rate than any individual person). We would charge every company a high import tax for any product manufactured outside the United States. These should actually be worldwide rules for any corporation around the globe. I am so sick of all these companies that make hundreds of billions of dollars always getting every break possible. I am sick and tired of taxpayers giving them more and more money. You have so many individuals in this country who will say they shouldn’t have to pay for some poor person to have medical insurance, they shouldn’t have to pay for any person to receive any form of assistance, but they don’t ever seem to care about all the subsidies, tax breaks, taxpayer funding, and every other form of corporate welfare these corporations receive every day of every year. If we would end all the corruption and corporate welfare individuals would not have to worry and complain about the poor receiving help. Well, I’m sure they still would complain.
It made me sick to my stomach when I heard a woman I know who doesn’t work, doesn’t pay taxes, comes from a wealthy family, and lives this great life of wanting for nothing, paid for by her family and husband, complain about people receiving Medicaid and her premiums being higher.
5
As a consumer, I don't reward backward-looking states with my hard-earned, precious dollars. I'm not alone; many friends have expressed the same philosophy. For example, there are many birders who avoid Texas and Arizona, two birding hotspots, because of those states' abysmal policies.
Apple should not reward Texas with it's hard-earned dollars.
4
Tech companies bring "downsides like gentrification and higher living costs that can push out longtime residents."
You just can't have it both ways. Does a city/town want the added jobs, tax revenue, opportunity for their kids or not?
"I haven’t seen kick in in the United States, is the large platforms enabling opportunities for individuals who may not have high-tech skills.”
Not true - it's like a military base - individuals without high tech skills have more opportunities for jobs thanks to increased retail and housing growth surrounding the tech company's growth and moving in.
1
How many tech campuses in Louisville would it take to get rid of Mitch McConnell?
2
Important for companies now manufacturing in China to bring it all back home.
Tim Cook = Henry Ford. Huge piles of profits, no sustainable future. River Rouge was necessary for building cars ... back then. For HQ and design facilities the better option is to decentralize and build small clusters around universities across the country. That's why we invented fiber optic cable.
3
Are any of these tens of thousands building any of their products or is that still happening in China?
The last thing Austin needs is another giant tech facility funded by tax breaks at the public's expense. This has been going on since Dell in the 1980s, and it has only only one combined effect: too many people, too little infrastructure, horrible traffic, less and less affordability, million dollar condo towers, and poorer quality of life. Exactly the same as what has happened in the the Bay Area and any other urban center where too many people want to live. And no, trains can't come close to fixing it.
5
A few relevant random Austin facts fwiw:
Traffic is bad. But the roads in southwest Williamson County where the campus will be are pretty good (thanks perhaps to the former state rep who chaired the House Transportation Committee for several years). You can live in the area nearby, or live in central Austin north of the river and drive contraflow during rush hour. (There’s no contraflow effect if you have to cross the river.)
You can get around Houston inside the loop pretty easily if you know the old pre-freeway road network. You can’t do that in Austin because of where and how the river bends in the hills just west of town and because thru roads get blocked in the Capitol Complex, UT, the old close-in airport just east of the interregional (which they recently redeveloped in a way to still block thru traffic), the schools for the blind and the deaf, and the National Guard HQ. Didn’t matter much in the easy going state government/state university town of the 60s or the cosmic cowboy town of the 70s but it matters now.
Austin has sprawled; good luck commuting into town from 15-25 miles away. But this campus is going in close to many other existing tech campuses, and it’s not that far from north central Austin. Most new developments nowadays are on large tracts of close-in land (many of which used to belong to the city or the state) or are high rise condos and apartments downtown.
2
My old school Mac Book Pro crashed on me yesterday. First, I spent an hour on the phone with a super nice geeky tech guy who just couldn’t quite figure it out over the phone. Getting off the line with him was like saying goodbye to a temporary old friend.
He helped me set an appt at the local Apple store today. I walked in a bit early expecting long lines. A friendly woman checked me in, verified my appt, walked me to the back to wait for a techie dude to assist. He tested my laptop realized it was a hardware problem not a software problem, will be fixed in 3-5 days. $96. I’ll come back for a battery replacement on my old 6 for $30 after this.
That is service. Congratulations to Apple and thank you. For some, tinkering and programming is bomb but I’m not into it. Thank you for just taking care of it. Here’s to continued prosperity in 2019.
4
I wonder where Apple would be right now if Steve Jobs were still alive. It feels so behind.
1
Love how happy Gov. Abbott is about bringing so many more liberals to the great (red) state of Texas!
12
Methinks it’s the long-standing tradition of gerrymandering that makes Texas look red from the outside. If you could stereotype Texans (don’t try this at home, folks), the majority would stand up as Independent.
2
$252 billion sitting in the bank. And that's just off-shore money. Heck, that's almost enough to buy a baseball team.
3
Well, San Diego is already way overcrowded. This is just going to make this worse. I understand the benefits -- but what good will they be if people have to drive 2 mph, for miles, just to get to work. (I lived there for many decades. I'm glad I got out.)
2
Most parents want their children and grandchildren close. Austin/Georgetown/San Marcos etc. now offer a wide array of really good paying jobs for young people in central texas. This is positive. Economically forced migration is painful, as we see with the central american migrants. A half century ago, Danny Dill and Mel Tillis captured the pain in their song "Detroit City". Good jobs solve (or prevent) so many problems.
8
Jobs in "engineering, research and development, operations, finance, sales and customer support"
I live in the Bay Area where Google, Apple and Facebook hire only young (usually male) tech workers as employees with benefits. Others are employed as "contractors" for 3 month time periods (repeatedly) at hourly wage. NO benefits (no health care, no vacation, no sick pay). Housing is tight and pricey. Workers commute long distances and/or live in their cars or RVs. Traffic is a nightmare. This is the reality of High Tech urban domination.
21
The US forced ATT to split into many smaller companies many years ago. When does it make sense to split up some of these gigantic companies now?
11
So, Apple is using a tax repatriation loophole on the "$252 billion that it had stashed abroad" via tax avoidance and announced that it will spend ONE billion of this to create a facility in Texas that Tim Cook spouts about as something "Apple is proud" of? After years of sending jobs and loot overseas?
Oh strike up the band for Timmy and his gang! Such patriots!
14
Cupertino, Austin, etc.? All that does is push people out of neighborhoods and gentrify.
Why not Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc..--places that really need jobs? Don't give me that "They can't code" garbage. Recent Times story
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/opinion/sunday/silicon-valley-tech.html
describes how partnership betw KY native, now rich, & Tech CEO, started internship in KY small town, which led to its revival.
10
Because few want to live in Detroit or Pittsburgh or ‘fill-in-the-blank’ cities!
If Apple and similar want to continue to attract the talent they need to improve their business and products, they must be located in urban areas where the young and educated want to live. It’s very easy to complain when you don’t have a mandate to do what is best for the company in the long term.
What you seem to want Apple to do is play the role of a Patron as in the Renaissance...only in this case with the goal of sponsoring entire states and cities! Honestly, if the USA wants old/rust belt cities revivified, that should be accomplished through a massive Public Works investment by the states and their cities. Why is it that you (and I don’t mean only you, there are many others who have the same complaint) believe it should be a for-profit corporation’s duty to revive what the government, state, and local people, allowed to die?
In every case, the waning and (near)-demise of many of these metros was foreseeable—in the same way that RIGHT NOW we see that coal is rightly dying and will no longer sustain those areas traditionally dependent upon said industry.
Yet, instead of taking positive, thoughtful actions to create an alternative future so that would-be mining communities don’t starve, their political actions are to desperately try to roll back regulations and demand federal subsidies for the coal industry.
Good old All-American Greed has led us to this cliff.
19
@Jon B, have you been to Pittsburgh in the last 20 years?
2
I wonder how much land they are going to destroy , how animals and flora are going to be killed to make room for this new fancy office factory? You talk about traffic , congestion, the rich outdoing the poor. Every tree, plant, species is a loss.
6
When they constructed their new campus in Cupertino, they reclaimed what was existing development as additional green space...something like 80% of the overall land is grass and trees. If any company has demonstrated environmental responsibility, it’s Apple.
16
Yeah, especially when we have to throw away our actually still working computers due to new computer systems.. That! pile is skyrocketing together with rare minerals in... oh sorry thats in Africa.. Assembled in China, transported all over the globe a million times.. and you tell me saving one tree is a good thing... pfffff, this is just another misguiding marketing tool of one of the most horrific polluters on Earth. Looks nice but is as hollow as an Apple computer.. - Apple user since 1994.
2
I am just wondering how many of those comments are typed using an iPhone like I am doing. I am a UT Austin graduate. Current airport was opened in 1998 I think. They decided to expand 291 after the opening the airport. I also think that light rail proposal was rejected.
Apples primary motivation is give products customers will pay for it and keep shareholders happy. Many of our 401Ks going to have Apple stocks.
My point is that we are part of the problem not just Apple.
9
Many of those who have rejected light rail in Austin have been liberal neighborhood groups. And that rejection went on since the ‘70s.
While those groups have done a lot of good, the lack of foresight in the transportation sector among the citizenry of Austin has contributed to its problems in a big way.
Light rail is slowly growing there, but it’s behind the curve now. We are all growing up, hopefully learning, and dealing with old wounds, new threats, and opportunities. Be wary, yes; but be kind as well.
2
Apple is attracted to Austin for the same reason it was attracted to China for manufacture: cheap labor.
Outside all the marketing drama and high-fives among the execs and the politicians, this is the fundamental fact of the decision.
American labor has now been driven down by corporate immiseration of the American labor force to the point where it's "competitive" with China, India and Southeast Asia.
Combine this exploitation of cheap, slave labor in the US with the absolute discrimination of Apple against a workforce any older than 40, and you have a company that continues to profit from the worst kinds of labor exploitation, only slightly less exposed in this area than Amazon, Facebook or Google now are.
Apple will find plenty of cheap kids in Austin to do their dirty work for them; that's what they need, and what they're looking for.
Meanwhile, they'll drive up the living costs of everyone else there, monopolize the tech labor market in the area (which can then lead to "dropping labor prices," i.e. controlling wages for cheapest), send real estate and rental rates sky-high, and produce even more pressure on an already overloaded infrastructure, making life miserable and expensive for all. We've seen this happen over and over again, in SF, NY, Boston, Seattle, London and elsewhere.
It's a plague upon all of us, and to be mourned, not celebrated.
8
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey
13
Can we stop printing corporate press releases as news.
If every job ever announced by giant corporations actually hapoened, unemployment would be negative 25%.
7
Glad Apple thinks they will add a new crop of taxpayers to their ranks. These techies getting out of Universities, or those constantly switching jobs we should remember, are taxed at source. Wal Mart , Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. don't add much income for the treasury. Techies are smart they typically try and live where they work and play. They know it is dumb to commute so little Johnny has a backyard. Austin has one issue they struggle with , homeless folks, they are everywhere even as the city has provided facilities for them they prefer to panhandle and are quite aggressive .
3
Here's hoping that Apple goes the way of Sears.
5
One Jobs wasn't enough?
1
Apple is scamming the people of Austin... Most of the 'workers' at Apple are ';contractors" on a yearly contract which can only be renewed after a layoff of 3 months...They do not receive benefits of any sort. They chose Texas because Texas law (unlike New York) allows them to treat them as perpetual contractors and not as employees.
17
At least Apple didn’t put up a show like A to gain free advertisement for a year. Good luck to Texans. Maybe redistribution of power and income will come by having hubs like this one.
2
It may be built in Texas, but you can be sure a quarter to a third of its student body will come from abroad, paying higher tuition, then taking what they’ve learned back home.
2
So Apple gets a $252 billion windfall but is only reinvesting $1 billion. What a payoff.
It’s good that Austin NYC DC are getting these jobs, but to be honest these cities don’t have a “jobs issue.”
It would be nice for these “American” companies to expand in some new areas of the country, ie ..Midwest, so all Americans can participate in the post industrial economy.
9
I wish Apple would invest in inland areas of California, i.e., places like Sacramento, Bakersfield, the Antelope Valley, Modesto, etc.
The people of inland California would be happy to have those jobs, transferred workers could afford to actually own a home in California, and most importantly, the revenue would help struggling municipal entities in California that need it the most.
Texas and the Republican Party (going back to Gov. Rick Perry) have done nothing but stick their collective thumb in the eye of California every chance they've gotten. You would think a California-based company like Apple would want to help Californians first?
11
Any plans for transit? Austin needs light rail and a lot of dedicated bus lanes.
8
@Stephen
In Seattle Amazon and Microsoft run their own commuter buses. These companies don’t wait for the municipalities to catch up. They supplement or compete with the local system — depending on your point of view.
1
But for the recent Tax Act which included provisions that were laser-focused on incentivizing US multinationals to locate their operations in the US( e.g., using both carrots and sticks), these jobs( along with a good portion of otherwise US taxable corporate and wage income) would have gone to Ireland. Thank-you again President Trump for MAGA!
3
Here in Raleigh, NC where the politicians, regional urban planners, and the nearby Collegiate academic communities were left salivating in the dark thinking they would be one of Apple's 'chosen' cities, the mood is exceptionally dour that The Triangle was left out of pretty much everything.
But, quietly, I'm celebrating not for only Austin, but for us here in NC. You will never be able to convince me that states who lure these monster tech corporations and who continue to offshore their revenues to avoid paying their fair share of not just federal, but local taxes which are hugely important for community cohesion, such as Apple, Amazon, Google or Facebook, or even telecom, will do the right thing and demand they pay their true share of local tax revenues.
Apple doesn't need any 'tax abatement incentives', they are a near trillion dollar mega corp. I'd love to see the real numbers not publicized here of the total number of billions in tax incentive dollars that will be lost by the schools, parks, and transportation departments of these 'lucky' cities.
10
The America of "sea to shining sea" is being (has been?) replaced by megalopolises. Boston to northern Virginia, US/Mexican border to Santa Barbara, the entire San Francisco Bay area, the Pacific Northwest (Seattle/Portland) along with"island cities" such as Pittsburgh, Boulder and Austin are all now where things are being done.
Apple's (Amazon's and most "high-tech) choice simply confirms that economically these areas are where the pump is being primed and ideas formulated.
Politically it is, of course, another story as rural and semi-urban areas struggle for survival and presence while maintaining national political dominance due to America's archaic system national elections and government.
6
@HapinOregon
If only we could do something about America's too rapid population growth the cities might be more livable.
2
With all of the deeply disturbing news all year, it is wonderful to read this story.
Thank you, Apple, for doing the right thing, and thank you, New York Times, for reporting it.
There is indeed good news out there, and I look forward to seeing more of it.
3
That's cool, Apple. Just remember to build housing somewhere for any new workers and their families you bring to the area. At least here in San Diego and Culver City, we have a serious housing shortage. That means, we have an insane number of people without roofs over their heads, including a significant portion of the state's public college and university students (you can look up the figures). They're your customers and future employees. Some of us (their professors) are struggling to keep a roof over our heads too. I'd hate to think your coming in is going to drive rents up even more. So please Apple (and other tech companies), sort out the housing!
5
@Wondering
"Sorting out the housing" is Apple's job?
Since when does a corporation have that responsibility? Is it not YOUR responsibility, your state's responsibility, and your cities' responsibilities to work that out?
Perhaps that's just why California is being passed by....incredibly high taxes and an "entitled" public that expects everything to be done for them.
6
Thank God. Hopefully Apple's move will encourage other tech companies to expand outside the Bay Area. We are drowning in tech workers whose high salaries have driven up the cost of everything, especially housing. Our region needs a decade or so to absorb the growth and build out more housing. It would be best if these companies actually located in some mid-sized and depressed region, where there wealth workforce would be a boon to their new communities, not a curse.
5
The move coincides with those by other technology giants to expand beyond their West Coast roots.
Is that like when a cancer metastasizes?
6
LoL! Yes and no. We believe that this growth will be beneficial to the American organism!
1
Another big bet on a hip city that isn’t equipped to handle more and more people - and certainly not in a remotely intelligent way (more cars, more congestion).
11
Just down the road from their existing campus, which I used to drive past almost every day.
Really glad Austin didn't have to bend over backward for Apple. It bothered me that Amazon was playing so many cities against one another for massive tax breaks it doesn't need. Especially when it appears the choice was made long before the contest started.
7
So Apple put together a $1B project that through some loop hole gave them an opportunity to repatriate, at a lower tax rate, $252B in cash that they has stashed in foreign countries. Ha.
14
that's not correct: Apple along with other US multinationals were taxed on their foreign earnings whether or not they repatriated cash. Apple for example is estimated to have paid $ 38 bil in taxes on such earnings. That doesn"t sound like corporate welfare to me.
2
As a person who has been an Apple fanboy since the Mac 128 and is currently building a PC, I can say with absolute certainty that I am no longer enamored by Apple.
They no longer innovate. I would rather have bought another fitbit than my Apple Watch 4 which is pure useless bloatware. The iMac I bought 10 months ago I've had to take in for repairs 4 times in the last 3 months, compared to 0 times for all my other Macs over the last 30 years. And my iPhone X is okay, but not revolutionary.
6
@dundeemundee. Hey dude, don’t know what happened to your products but when my iPhone camera wasn’t working at over a year, Apple gave me a new phone. Same for my wireless keyboard. You don’t like apple, you can build better? Go for it.
3
Unlike a lot of people I know, I am not very familiar with Austin, but being from San Antonio I have heard some things. Such as there are many grads from the University of Texas at Austin who would like to stay in Austin because they love the city. However, they struggle to find jobs, especially in the IT field. So this is good news for them, right? Maybe?
On the other hand, Austin is crowded with a sky high housing market and finding a place to live is almost impossible. The traffic is ridiculous. The people of Austin try to address this with lots of scooters, promoting walking, and small cars. Bottom line though is the city planners need to do better.
San Antonio may be a better place for Apple. Or at least their employees. Our city is well planned, we have the infrastructure, a stable housing market, and computers who live here while working in Austin. We want more white collar jobs. If Texas would actually start building the bullet train between the cities this would help much, IMHO. May sound naive, but this is workable if we act smart. This would be a boon for the I 35 corridor between San Antonio and Austin and other surrounding cities because this area is booming. Just throwing out some ideas because I do understand why Austiners could find this news about Apple alarming. I would also like to mention San Antonio refused the bidding war with Amazon. Good on Austin for getting a major corporate bump without bribing said corporation.
5
I lived in San Antonio for 20 years. I don’t know what infrastructure your talking about cause besides buses public transportation is non existent.
Try driving I-10 corridor or Loop 410, more traffic is not what’s needed.
2
Instead of giving Apple tax incentives, they should have required them to pay for mass transit.
This will no doubt accelerate the exodus of longtime Austinites from a city that has lost much of its laid-back charm while acquiring all the aggravations and few of the amenities of a major metropolis.
It's not just that housing costs are soaring and it takes an inordinate amount of time to get from one place to another. Austin used to attract people who enjoyed a friendly atmosphere and good work-life balance, but now it's filling up with Type A personalities who are always angry and in a hurry. Supposedly downtown is more walkable now, but between the aggressive drivers running red lights and the kamikaze scooters, you are taking your life in your hands trying to cross the street.
4
Los Angeles, and very most especially the ocean-blocked west side such as Culver City, does not need more high paid tech jobs. We need more solid high-wage middle-class jobs for the bottom 70%. The continual expansion of high-paying jobs in places that neither have the housing nor transportation infrastructure to support them stinks to high heaven. How do we stop this?
6
I just don't understand the opposition to Amazon going to Long Island City and the need for the government to subsidize this.
Bottom line is that Amazon could have gone anywhere and NY had to take the right steps to get the company to come to NYC. 25,000 jobs means more taxes and more spending in the NY metropolitan area, which means more job and more taxes. Some of those taxes will go to pay for programs favored by the left.
No jobs equal less money to pay for social programs so dearly valued by people on the left.
5
Apple had this one chance to be the most beloved company in our country for all time by locating this new campus (or at least a satellite campus) in Detroit. the accompanying businesses that would follow would have assured that this troubled part of our country was revitalized. Same for Amazon. Both of these companies could have easily afforded this. Oops, I forgot - no money to waste on bidding, no obscenely huge tax breaks, etc.
4
@Janis G
I agree with you, but how many people on this board would complain that by going to Detroit housing prices and traffic would increase? My bet is quite a few.
Seems that it is quite hard to please everyone these days.
4
He about Apple starts making its products here instead of in China so we can all stop complaining about China's constantly stealing our intellectual property? It's not as if Apple doesn't build into their products tremendous profit margins.
8
As soon as you can identify a city with 100,000 Americans willing to work 12 hr days at minimum wage for 6 days/week to perform complex electronics assembly. That’s what they’re able to get right now in China, and it’s why they can ship tens of millions of new phones reliably to doorsteps worldwide within days of announcing them. Think this is an easy feat that can be replicated anywhere overnight? There’s a reason why they’re the most profitable company in the world and able to hire 20,000 Americans in the US rather than shuttering plants like GM. I think it’s high time we get realistic about the types of jobs our economy (and our labor force) is skilled enough to support.
6
or, maybe we should just pay more for "the gadgets "? The price it would cost if it were made here.. ? And, tell Apple not to change their operating system almost every year = obsolete gadgets = new gadgets, better, faster and so on..
Better for the environment, better for society!
1
Another explanation for an increased domestic footprint by Apple is an escalation of the 'Telecom Spy War' with China. This announcement comes amidst fresh allegations about Huawei, the Chinese telecom giant. By moving more operations to U.S. soil, Apple is signalling that it is uneasy about it's reliance on Chinese production, and perhaps as a bargaining chip with the Communist Chinese Government. Apple, of course, has repositioned itself as as a major telecom player.
2
I keep laughing at the line of reasoning that goes we don't need high paying jobs we just need to fix our crumbling roads bridges and infrastructure?
And the money comes from where....?
They don't say. Can't come from High salaried workers who live in a city, If there are no good paying jobs.
Can't come from corporations if they locate elsewhere.
Spare us the criticism of corporations.... please just tell us where you intend to get the money.
14
@strangerq
The reasoning, such as it is, is that the money should come from the government. If somehow that isn't sufficient, then it should come from rich people.
"...in return for several billion in taxpayer subsidies."
Why do people still not understand that Apple is not helping anyone but Apple?
77
Austin, TX has been facing a tremendous commuter crisis for over 5 years, seemingly with no viable plan to lessen its current woes. Adding another 6K workers to just the Apple operations, even if some workers are current residents, is like throwing gasoline on a fire for the city. I used to visit Austin fairly regularly from my home in Houston; now, I avoid it...I'll deal with Houston traffic because I can plan for it; I will not be stuck in traffic when on vacation or pleasure outings.
45
@Aaron
I remember Austin having major traffic issues when I moved here 18 years ago. A ton of people have moved in over that time and people still get around. There have been a lot of highway projects that helped but it has lagged the growth.
I also remember having issues with Houston traffic in the early 2000s. The 610/I-10 exchange was in the news among the top 10 worst locations nationally during rush hour. You can plan for Houston traffic because you know it well and probably have some ways around it. It is the same in Austin, if you lived here, you would be able to plan for it.
12
@Aaron The only way to efficiently handle a lot of people is trains. That takes government that is not in the pockets of big oil and the automobile industry. Until Texas and really the federal government diverts money from new highway construction and into rail lines, the traffic woes of booming cities (Austin here) won't be alleviated. The NY metro area with nearly 20 million people has trains (and still has traffic!). Imagine if it didn't.
6
Seems everywhere they are expanding is in liberal enclaves.
6
It’s because they need who can think.
4
Once upon at Time LBJ made sure Texas got a large piece of the Military Industrial business and it still does today.
1
Now, that's an apple I can bite into!
This amounts to sugary corporate public relations, ala Amazon. Much Ado about nothing. Apple has been living a double life. Their furtive life involves shipping hundreds of billions of dollars in corporate profits offshore through tax havens and lobbying the Trump Administration and powerful republicans in Congress for a tax cut. Meanwhile they do little to improve wages and manufacture most of their products out of the country. I give them none of my business.
6
Dear Apple,
Please update the iMac.
- Concerned user
6
Apple tosses its principles and puts >90% of the jobs in Texas. I thought they were enlightened.
I think it is a very good thing that Apple was up front and announced that it would be expanding. Like the article said, this is a sign of how much the economy relies on large companies like apple or amazon.
This will also provide a significant amount of jobs for people living near, or in the Austin, Texas area. Allegations of the company facing issues could be true especially with President trump putting tariffs on imports from China.
These tech firms have no moral compass, the CEO was grilled by the so called politicians and wow in the same week this announcement is made. So I am sure Apple will get more and more tax breaks.
Here in New York City we gave away everything in a secret deal with Amazon. With the tired promise of jobs . If Amazon was dealing in good faith they would of spoke to everyone at the City Council. They were double dealing just like the rest of the political elite. The city is crumbling and Amazon is getting tax breaks just like Apple will. The corruption of these companies has no limits now we know why Apple was supporting Ted Cruz.
5
This is the kind of ignorant, clueless thinking that makes me worried for our future. The Republican Party is dead - Donald Trump is it's death rattle. A political vacuum has been created, and this Ocasio-Cortez type of illogical thinking is going to fill it. Tony, you seem to be upset that Amazon will pay only 20 billion in taxes, instead of 22 billion, seeming to not understand there was a chance that number would've been zero without the 10% discount. Am I understanding you correctly?
We're living in a bizarro world, where half the country looks at a motley caravan of hopeless, helpless refugees and sees "invaders"and "terrorists"; and the other half looks at billions in private investment and thousands of high-paying jobs and sees "traffic" and "overburdened infrastructure". Are there any same people left?
3
This is exactly what Austin does not need. Didn't anyone scouting Austin notice the already gridlocked traffic everywhere you turn?
It used to be such a family friendly, laid back little gem of a town. Now road rage defines the vibe. Overcrowding and rocketing prices already mean every beautiful country inch is being leveled to make way for more blocks of ugly condos and now this.
It's not too late, Apple, pick somewhere else. please.
12
Where’s the outrage? Where are the commenters who vow they will never buy an Apple product because of its tacit endorsement of the likes of Ted Cruz, John Cornyn and Louis Gohmert — nut job of epic proportions? These three Texas politicians, all of them Republicans, detest just about everything Apple purportedly stands for: diversity, LGBTQ rights, technology, inclusiveness.
Sure, they welcome Apple’s investment. But the other side of the coin is political and cultural attacks on Apple the corporate entity.
I’d be curious to hear Tim Cook’s explanation of why his company continues to invest in red states like Texas, when there are so many other areas of the country where its presence would make an immense difference to the lives of thousands. Pennsylvania comes to mind. Maryland. New Hampshire or New Mexico.
Seems like Cook treasures Texas’ incentives more than his firm’s moral compass.
4
every day I continued to be amazed at the concept of acceptable objective reporting. it is common practice for multinational corporations to maintain profits in countries that enable them to reduce their tax expense. remember, these corps have shareholders and whether you like it or not, they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder profits. this practice of reducing taxes this way is common and has been legal under US tax law. so like it or not, apple really didn't do anything wrong. yet this article states apple "stashed" money outside of the US. "stashed"? that term has a very negative connotation and implies illegality or wrong doing at the very least. where has objective, non-judgmental reporting gone. just write the facts, omit the adjectives. I will come to my own informed opinion. stop trying to instill your opinion by use of over exaggerated adjectives. massive, tragic, horrific...all words that should never appear in a publication claiming to be objective and investigative.
2
I’ve lived in Austin for 30 years and it is true that it is not what it used to be. The traffic is now ludicrous, with traffic jams on the major roads 7 days per week. There is a growing urban core and a satellite city in north Austin not too far from where the Apple campus growth will be located. But there is not enough density to support real mass transit options and too much open space and cheap land around the city that suburban sprawl will continue to make matters worse. Apple didn’t cause these issues, but its location choice will certainly perpetuate the pain.
Add to all the pain from growth the fact that Austin is extremely liberal in a very red state that seems to make it easy for the state leadership to under-fund our infrastructure needs and to “Robin Hood” our school tax base into poverty.
On the other hand, several people I know in Austin have good, well-paying jobs at Apple. I am net positive at the opportunities provided. I just hope that our city can do a much better job with managing the growing pains that come with all our success at attracting employers and employees
13
No Federal Tax on $252 Billion. For just one company. Wow.
10
Trump's policies have been doing some amazing things with the US economy. I'm proud I voted for him and I will certainly vote for him in 2020.
Keep up the good work, Mr. President.
2
For everyone complaining about how this will make Austin traffic worse or drive up housing costs, that is just the reality of an expanding local economy for any growing city. The housing market will always lag a growing economy. No city builds a super-great highway infrastructure or mass transit solution ahead of demand. Transportation always react to the growth.
You can't have growth without people moving in. Job openings will always drive an influx of new residents. If you are happy with your job/commute/house then maybe you do not want the growth where you live, but stagnation is not great for any city, and a decline is really bad (homelessness, crime, poorly funded schools, etc.).
The culture in Texas is that people do not want to use public transportation (unless you are poor). If more people used the buses, the bus system would expand their network. There would also be less congestion on the roads.
It took forever to get the current rail system working for commuters. People kept voting it down because of cost and its limited service route. Within a few years of operation, it got so crowded on the trains that they had to increase the capacity during rush hour by buying more trains to run back to back.
73
Check out Denver, they did plan for growth with their transportation infrastructure.
24
@Green man
I checked an article that said that Denver grew by 100k people from 2010-2017 (7 years). Another article said that the Austin area (includes adjoining cities) grew by 55k people in 2017 alone. I didn't delve into it much more but when the growth is that explosive, infrastructure projects which take many years of planning and construction to complete will not be able to keep up.
17
@AN
"You can't have growth without people moving in. "
We don't want growth. The result of no growth would not be "stagnation." Rather, it would be stability.
32
And just how many of these jobs are going to go to US citizen IT workers? I suspect that all these new jobs are going to the thousands of south and east Asians Apple is one of the companies trying to raise the H1B cap and increase more foreign nations to study at US colleges, to have a "back door" to the US labor force. While, at the same denying US born IT, or engineer, worker a job, or laying off older workers after they retrained their replacement.
Finally, based on personal experience, if you interview with a company with a south or east Asian on staff, chances are very good that person will purposely make the interview harder, in order to make sure a south or east Asian gets further in the process. They look down upon their American It worker counterparts and make it clear they do so. Some have even posted negative comments, of American IT workers, and engineers, in these blogs.
Finally, just how much in tax incentives did Austin give Apple? Expect the cost of housing to increase further in the places Apple will be adding jobs. While, the locals are pushed out or forced to pay a higher cost of living.
7
I have seen several comments with folks asking what incentives/breaks they are currently receiving. It seems with this expansion they will get a few more.
https://www.statesman.com/news/20181213/apple-plans-new-1-billion-austin-campus-5000-more-jobs
10
@MisplacedTexan. At least it was the strongarm robbery that Amazon perpetrated.
These companies are not supporting our schools. Austinites pay huge property taxes of which about half is taken by the state to fund suburban and rural school districts elsewhere. Austin’s school district is facing a massive shortfall, which will will mean closing programs and schools. I say let Apple in after they make the school district whole.
@Stevenz. Wasn’t .
They bring back $252 Billion as a result of tax break and ‘repatriation’ of stashed foreign funds, and are heralded as hero’s for investing $1 Billion to creat jobs. Wow, what sacrifice for the country that gave them everything.
17
"None of the new positions announced by Apple on Thursday appeared to involve manufacturing."
These are all positions that require the ability to deal with complexity -acquired mental disciplines and problem solving.
How many "folks" who voted for trump you think will be employed in them?
duh
26
Wages? Why don't these stories ever talk about whether the jobs created will actually PAY?
8
1 billion dollars? That’s a tiny bite of the Apple.
There is no answer given to what’s the price tags is in goodies like tax give-aways from Texas and other states to the 1 Trillion Dollar Machine known as Apple. Given the actors involved and the negative reaction to the Amazon shakedown from taxpayers
in New York that information shall remain a secret. Also there is never mention of exact hourly wages and positions that will be available because that would complete the puzzle and allow a real analysis of this Apple plan. The details of this Apple plan aren’t trade secrets they are corporate earning secrets to hide profits at home and abroad.
There is no oversight, public hearings, government analyst for good reason:it’s a bad deal for all expect the corporate state and Apple.
1
"Tech won't move to Red States like Texas."
Sentiment last month.
This month, Apple moves to Austin, and everyone is praising them because Texas didn't get pulled into the Amazon stunt like NYC did.
1
@Scott
Travis County, Texas - which is metropolitan Austin - voted 66% for Clinton, 27% for Trump.
Apple chose a blue city to locate to, because that's where the IQ, talent and decent human beings are located.
https://patch.com/texas/downtownaustin/blue-dot-sea-red-travis-county-voting-was-decidedly-pro-clinton
6
Good news, hopefully the campus they build in San Diego is downtown and not in a boring business park in the north part of the county.
1
Wake up, conservatives! You don't see these companies going to red states, do you? Think hard on that one.
2
@VLMc Last I looked TX was a red state.
2
Please stop with the silly "weird" comments. No one in NYC calls it the Big Apple. San Franciscans don't say they are from Frisco etc. Austinites don't brag on the town being weird. It's a cooked up marketing term for t-shirts and mugs.
12
@Gina
Add to the list of NOT using "Cali" to refer to
California.
2
Oh, good. More smart people moving to Texas. Go Blue!
13
I loved Austin in the early '80s when it was cheap, hip, fun and easy to get around in. It's more than doubled in size to become an overpriced, congested nightmare; property taxes increase $1,000 a year, driving out many long-time residents; the once-good streets and roads are crumbling under the weight of overuse; traffic is unbearable; parking is virtually nonexistent; many of the locally-owned idiosyncratic restaurants, shops and music venues that made Austin cool (not "weird") are fast vanishing under crushing rent increases, replaced by chains (In-N-Out Burger? Really?). Like many folks who've watched this once lovely little city spiral down the drain, I can't wait to relocate when I retire.
27
@Allan That's what happens when you let so many darned yankees move in. Plano's roads are no better. Driving down the road is like being on a roller coaster necessitating wheel alignment every six months. And during so called rush hours, turning left requires turning right three times.
3
@Allan
I lived in Texas from 1984 - 95, and I remember the Austin you talk about. I enjoyed my trips from Dallas, then Houston to the over sized college town. Boulder,used to be the same way, in the 1980s. It too was a fun place to visit.
Then came the California east migration, in the late 1980s, early 1990s, making both Austin and Boulder more like California, than Texas and Colorado.
I am not sure about Austin, but the median house price, in Boulder, is over $1 million. Traffic is horrible going between Longmont and Boulder. Mainly because of people who can't afford Boulder. Traffic in both cities is bad. And, the Californian transplants demand things like In and Out Burger and Trader Joe's.
In my case, I could not afford to buy my house today; it is now worth 2 1/2 times than it was 20 years ago. Longmont, was the last vestige of affordability in Boulder County, and si quickly catching up to Boulder. And yes, people from California have moved in and trying to make Longmont like Boulder, like Austin, like San Francisco.
Finally, politically, Colorado may have moved from being "purple" to being "blue". And our low taxes may give way to a movement to end the Tax payer Bill of Rights. If it were not in affect, my property taxes would be double what they are now.
So, yes, California has not only messed with Texas, but Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Nee Mexico, Nevada, Arizona ,Oregon and Washington, leaving min LAs/SFs in their wake.
6
let 'em go! as you may have heard we're packed in and yet the people keep coming!
Perhaps US companies have figured out that it is not safe to have essential operations in China. We might see a slow exodus of US jobs from China to points unknown but surely including the US. About time.
4
The article states that no manufacturing jobs are moving from China to the US or elsewhere. These jobs are to design and create the things that are ultimately manufactured all over the world, including the US.
9
No one mentioned China, including the authors of the article. They just assemble parts in China
My question is how many jobs would have been added if Apple simply paid their taxes on 'overseas' income? You know, teachers, first responders, medical providers, etc.
44
This is great, but America needs to grapple with the idea that when these giant tech colonies get seeded in a city, housing and transportation need to be an integral part of the whole plan. After that is done, they need to plan how they are going to maintain the rest of the community (craftsmen, artists, service workers) necessary to make a place liveable.
Apple could be a national leader in figuring out how to make this work for everyone.
8
@Madeline Conant
"Apple could be a national leader..." but won't!
7
Do not such agreements as "proffers" still exist, whereby developers have to provide money toward schools, roads, parks, etc.?
not with Republican ideology holding sway.
Stripped of the art and culture that made Austin weird, what is left that would want to draw people to live there?
Summer is HOT!
Traffic is unbearable.
The nice people of Austin have been priced out.
I used to visit once or twice a year, but two years ago my heart broke as the city became unrecognizable.
What a tragedy.
16
We live close to where Apple is going to plunk itself down, and this news strikes the fear of Steve Jobs's ghost in me. I'm in exile from my hometown of SF- can't afford to live where I grew up, partly thanks to Apple. And now Apple is going to drive us artists out of Austin. Of course, it's good news for people with advanced technical degrees, but for everyone else - and that is most people - this will mean even more of a squeeze in finding affordable housing. I won't even mention the traffic, because if you're complaining about traffic, you probably haven't got a housing problem. But artists here are already being crushed by the cost of housing and work spaces, and that is just another issue that is going to spiral out of control. As the techies come, we artists are forced out. We can't command the same kinds of salaries the techies can and will never be able to compete with them for housing and work space. I've lived through this before, and I'm sick of having to relocate every few years because overpaid tech workers drive up housing prices. It's a fear-inducing, stomach-churning period of history for those who don't work in tech.
81
It’s both tragic and ironic. Steve Jobs was an artist who created the worlds biggest tech company. And most techies want to be with and around artists- it brings something different to their lives. And we need solutions that enable affordability and opportunity for artists and others. Anyone have any good ideas?
14
@BR: Nothing personal against techies. I know people who work in tech & most of them are nice, interesting people. I don't hold it against them for being good at technology. I do harbor grudges against people who love to dump on artists, though - those who rail about how we should all "grow up" or "get a real job" (check out the commenters over at the Ghost Ship article, ragging on artists, as if it is our fault that we have talents other people do not). We work hard, & are often forced to work more than one job to earn a living, just so we can keep doing what we are really good at. It is exhausting to live like this, & the material rewards are very few. But we can't just go off & live in a cheap, small town, because we need to be able to make our work available to people with money who will actually pay for what we produce. We need the overpaid techies with disposable income to come to our shows, subscribe to our podcasts, & buy the objects we make. We need to be around other artists who will collaborate on producing shows, podcasts, web series, films, & music, & we need to be able to see & be inspired by what our fellow artists are making. There are few professions that are as isolating & yet as utterly dependent upon marketing to large audiences. That's why artists gravitate to cities & not to small towns, where the cost of living may be cheaper, but where opportunities to earn a living making art are few & the odds of building a career are even more stacked against us.
6
Sorry that it isn’t possible to have everything in life. I celebrate Apple and California for making the only American products and scientific advances that the rest of the world salivates over. Yes, my cost of living is higher than many other parts of the country, but what do we expect when so many people want to live here? Spread the CA spirit around, I say. That is the best thing for the country. But notice Apple is only locating in liberal progressive areas. Start welcoming diversity, Trumpkins, and you can join the future with us.
2
Great news for several cities across the U.S. Especially after GM recently announced plant closings and the loss of jobs elsewhere.
1
Unfortunate for Austin. Why?
Contrary to popular belief, the style and look of a laid back livable city that most outsiders still have of Austin is long gone. What is left is a very crowded city that is difficult to get around, with a lot of very aggressive homeless panhandling. With car transportation as the only serious way to get to work, adding 6,000 workers on one campus kills that area due to traffic patterns. I took my CFA exam in one of the Hotels near the convention center in 2018. I was very disgusted. It was overcrowded, expensive, and the homeless problem was worse than in Manhattan.
For the real estate developer of the campus and Apple, the campus concept sounds great. Go in, by 100 acres of scrub brush cheap, build a office park, make lots of money. But to the local residents, and workers who drive, it's a mess.
Corporations should realize and currently they do not, that scattering office buildings around a city or region is much better. This relieves the economic growth stress on one specific area. With all of the possibilities of the internet and video conferencing, high concentrations of employees is no longer justifiable.
12
And yet no form of video conferencing is quite good enough to really communicate at a deeper level.
6
Just a few things, there are lots of homeless in Austin due to the mild climate. The panhandling is annoying, but is easily ignored. Second, the Apple campus is currently in N. Austin, near where this second campus is being built, off Parmer Lm in the Riata Business Park, this shouldn’t add to congestion downtown. Apple already has a huge amount of workers in Austin, it was the largest campus until the new one in Cupertino was opened, this one will just add to the huge amount of tech (mostly Semiconductor) that is already here.
2
Whether this campus contributes to sprawl and exacerbates problems, we shall see. But it could be for naught unless Apple comes up with a breakthrough new product. They have not invented anything That everybody wants since the iphone. Their revenues now depend on it, and the market is shrinking.
They sure do miss Steve Jobs.
3
Geography matters to companies that produce goods and engage in high end research and development. Interstate 35, what Texans call the NAFTA highway, connects the three countries and goes straight through Austin and San Antonio, which is 90 miles southwest of Austin. Interstate 10 goes from California to Florida, and goes right through the heart of San Antonio. It is the only point that connects the country geographically north/south & west/east with continuous interstate. That strategic interception of I35 and I10 is both an initiator and result of all the military bases in the region, some of which have been closed and evolved to significant economic missions. The synergy along the Texas I35 corridor is incredibly powerful for the economy of the United States, and trade stats bear that out.
While the country engages in denial and tries to thwart the human capital resources of the continent with border fear, wasting financial resources and creating a militarized zone at the southern border, this Apple announcement reminds me that the continuous march of solid business decisions will eventually raise us above this chaos. What strengthens our economy will also strengthen Mexico.
5
So Apple has a gay CEO....and he is OK with expanding and investing in homophobic and racist Texas.
Just another reason to stop buying Apple products.....and to look for a company that has some degree of social responsibility.
Having worked for Compaq in Houston, I can say 1st hand that Texas sucks....it is controlled by right wing Republican racists!
7
@citizenUS....notchina
Probably because he is a corporate pragmatist and does not care about these perceptions. I doubt that his sexual orientation influences any single decision he makes at Apple.
6
@citizenUS....notchina
"...homophobic and racist Texas"
They are expanding in Austin not just Texas. That is a big difference. I don't think you know about the culture of Austin.
10
The press release said Apple is adding hundreds of jobs in Portland as well.
2
Corporate expansion like this will eventually mitigate the inequities of Republican gerrymandering and drive the sick GOP even further back into the boondocks where it can wallow in corruption and local Fox News propaganda.
39
As the mother of a recently hired Apple person, let me just say it’s all looks good from my perspective.
8
@Cindy ODell
Typical American attitude. Capitalism good! It's all about me and mine! Meanwhile people in these cities are worried about the deleterious impact on its traffic patterns, housing prices, congestion, etc.
4
It's further down the line, of course, but an increase in the number of younger, college-educated urban and suburban voters in Texas and a further diversification of the state's economy away from being so dependent on the oil industry is very welcome to me.
You might guess where my leanings lie.
24
@T Don't feel alone
1
So a company that stashes 250 billion in cash overseas to avoid taxes receives tax breaks agreeing to invest 5 billion or so in a nation that's eroding infrastructure is maintained on borrowing from its children to provide tax breaks for executives in New York, Washington DC and Austin Texas.
7
@Randy
Not really stash, you go where you get good returns and let the tax attorney's minimize exposure. But it's disingenuous of Apple to say they're hiring in cities throughout the country, when those cities are high-tech cities with an established workforce already. Seattle, San Diego, LA, New York. I didn't see Kansas City, Omaha, Columbus, Louisville, or Huntsville or Tulsa.
1
@Thomas Penn in Seattle
"disingenuous of Apple to say they're hiring in cities throughout the country, when those cities are high-tech cities "
If you were expanding your business, would you pick locations that have a limited number of hire-able people? And even if you did select that location, most of the new hires would end up being people that moved to that location, not the locals. A business will always expand where they can easily expand (low taxes and established workforce).
Outside of Austin, Apple has been primarily a Californian employer. If they are expanding to tech-hubs in other states, that is not a bad thing.
9
What does Austin have to do, or what has to happen in Austin or to Austin, before you will decide that it is no longer necessary to inform your readers that it is located in"Tex"?
3
@GWC
You need to get an NFL, MLB or NBA franchise - then "Austin" will be used in the same same sentence as "New York Yankees," "Pittsburgh Steelers" and "Houston Rockets"
1
Texas' business friendly tax laws are attractive to many large employers; Austin is the tech hub in a very diverse state of industry sectors. Maybe, just maybe, with this expansion in Austin's N. side, housing will become more affordable heading south of the city on I-35 towards San Antonio and east to Houston on Hwy 290.
13
@Coffee Bean - This will only drive up the cost of housing in the area, especiall south, as well as make the already LA-like traffic worse.
I can't imagine what I-35 & Mopac traffic will be like. This will certainly add to Pflugerville, Round Rock & Georgetown's traffic woes...
36
@NativeSon
Thanks for the reply and thoughtful response!
Having lived in Houston 35/6 years, the city is running out of room to expand the freeways.
Urban sprawl has always been an issue and unless the city addresses the issue Houston will face similar traffic problems as Austin.
10
@NativeSon: Exactly. As you obviously know firsthand, and I commented on from secondhand knowledge living in Houston - Austin is already stretched far beyond capacity in infrastructure, especially in its overwhelmed traffic capacity; and housing will only become much more expensive. The only salvation on the housing side may be if these Apple jobs are lower-paying, less-skilled positions; but that's doubtful, as those type jobs are being filled by robots (incidentally addressed in another article today by the Times). I now avoid Austin at all costs, would rather put up with traffic that I can work around in Houston than experience that 24/7 nightmare in a city that I actually really like.
13
Great ! Now we really will have mass homelessness or does Apple also plan to provide affordable housing as well?
5
So whatever happened to that wall that Mexico was supposed to
pay for?
5
Was there an incentive of any kind provided by Texas to get Apple to locate there, or not? A natural point of interest especially in light of the controversy over the Amazon deal. Sadly the article is silent on this. Stellar reporting.
@Edwin WSJ at least bothered to report: "Apple’s release didn’t mention whether it had received any tax incentives from any local governments."
3
The dishonest and not so bright Greg Abbott claims it's the great Texas workforce that led to Apple's expansion in Austin. The truth is most of those workers will come from places other than Texas (better educational systems elsewhere). Austin is an attractive site because it's a great city and young and talented people want to live there. And, of course, one of the greatest state universities is right there, a good feeder for talent (UT Austin is very diverse and educates people from all over the world).
16
@TF82
"The truth is most of those workers will come from places other than Texas (better educational systems elsewhere)."
I expect the majority of new hires will be from within Texas because there are many great and decent universities within Texas (UT, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, UTD, SMU, UH, Rice, TSU, etc.). There will be more Texan applicants than out-of-state applicants because that is the nature of people, they generally prefer to not move away from family and friends unless they are desperate. Companies would prefer not to pay for relocation when they can get someone just as good locally.
5
Turn Texas blue. Diversity is the future for this great State. I implore all the tech giants. Please come to Ohio. Cleveland has great amenities, low cost housing, world class heath care, a symphony and Broadway caliber theater. Lest we forget, a lakefront view for miles and miles.
22
@Mark
But you can only see the lake 6 months a year. The rest of time it is obscured by lake effect snow flurries...or blizzards.
What you should brag about is Sherrod Brown..in contrast to Ted Cruz. Not that's a difference you can brag about 12 months a year.
1
This is not good news. Austin is full.
I am a volunteer at a local theater here in Austin. Often during concerts, a performer will step forward to chat with the audience. Last year, during such an interchange, the performer had several good things to say about Austin, its music and performance scene, its attitude -- "Keep Austin Weird" -- its governance, its lakes, rivers, and forested parks, all well received. Then he announced, "And did you know Austin is one of the fast growing cities in the country!"
There was a moment of silence. Then the audience started to groan, then growl, then boo and hiss!
Austin's growth is destroying Austin. The added burden of new residents is driving up housing prices, destroying our suburban parks-like areas, jamming our roads . . . The downtown stretch of I-35, the north-south corridor through the city, is jammed to a standstill 18 hours a day. Road construction in progress won't come close to meeting our existing needs, and there is no room for more.
I'm a relative newcomer, been here about 8 years. As a software systems analyst and developer -- now retired -- I research my options, and picked Austin deliberately, because of its combination of music and performance arts, reasonable housing costs, and proximity of the city center to urban parkland full of trails and creeks. In the last 8 years, those advantages have been slowly eroded.
Apple: Your new facility will not be welcomed.
46
Worse still, the cultural presence of musicians, artists, theatre and such is already disappearing from Austin at a pace most don’t want to acknowledge, almost exclusively because of rising costs of living, primarily housing. In Dallas, my husband, the leader of a successful 1920s orchestra, and I, a freelance traditional illustrator, are preparing to leave for the Midwest. We’ve found a great city that’s in the middle of an arts renaissance, where we’ll be able to establish permanent roots, rather than play the game of repeatedly moving from rental to rental, as the population skyrockets and property costs boil over. Many fellow artists have admitted that they’re making similar plans- not just in Dallas, but Austin and San Antonio, as well.
11
@Texas Liberal
I have been in Austin for almost 20 years. When was Austin not full? Locals have always complained about too many people moving in and changing things. Even before I moved to Austin, when I was living in Dallas, I would hear about how Austin voters did not want growth and would limit infrastructure funding to discourage expansion.
The significant growth in Round Rock, Pflugerville, Kyle, Cedar Park, etc. is because Austin was "full" well over a decade ago. That hasn't stopped companies or people from moving into the Austin area. Apparently there is still a lot of room.
How many of those people that were booing were born here? I willing to bet that most of them moved here either for a job or because their parents moved here for a job. There will always be change - fact of life. And I would prefer a growing economy over a declining economy. Static economies exist in rural settings, not places like Austin which is a major tech-hub and has a large number of musicians and artists.
18
You would prevent those coming after you from having the same opportunities that you had? As a 20 year resident of Austin, and an almost lifetime resident of Texas, I welcome your departure.
1
Apple only does the final assembly of the iPhone in China. At a cost of about $8 for labor, Chinese workers put together parts made in many other countries.
8
This is getting entirely out-of-hand.
Trump must stop pressuring firms to create more jobs in the USA.
6
@Dr. John
What pressure, exactly, did Trump apply. I'm looking for cause-and-effect.
3
Disgraceful move. There should a public inquiry as to why a successful American business can be allowed to invest, grow and create jobs in thriving metropolitan areas.
7
Without President Donald Trump, Apple would be nothing. It was failing in the 1990s! Only Trump brought it and much of ever other American business back!
@A Concerned Citizen Ah yes. I expect that he'll be unveiling his cure for cancer soon, too.
11
@A Concerned Citizen
Lol what? Failing in the 90s, sure. But they've been on a pretty meteoric rise for the last 10 years. Apple was not saved by Trump. Just look at their stock history.
7
Don't forget world peace. North Korea is already no longer a nuclear threat, and Jared is appeasing the Middle East.
6
Looks like Trump was correct after all, lowering the corporate tax rate would lure US companies back, which lead to an influx of tax revenue and jobs, yet I don’t see it in the NYT’s headlines.
4
What does this move have to do with their US tax rate? Whether they make their products in China, Vietnam or the US their profits are made in SALES and and those are creatively shifted with help of "royalty fees" to their companies in low tax havens (IRE, LUX, SGP etc).
U need to start thinking things through. The easy mechanics of Individual 1 may work when selling cheaply constructed gilded condos to the clueless nouveaux riches. In economics and finance things are rarely as simple...
6
Isn't there an app for industrial expansion?
4
Hiring women in Texas given the state's discriminatory political climate may be a challenge if Amazon was truly interested in more women in tech. So perhaps the company could have used more liberal access to healthcare as a condition. I know, they have the corporate healthcare but services need to not have limits if say you want a STD test or abortion outside your corporate provider.
1
Pittsburgh reportedly offered $10 BILLION in tax givebacks to lure Amazon. NUTS. And here comes Apple with a number of jobs we can absorb without massive gentrification and dislocation. A feel good story.
6
@Rob Houck
You don't know what the economic impact of Apple will be, but it's almost certain to cause "gentrification and dislocation." All those people need to live somewhere.
1
All these jobs being produced in the heartland NOT those librul cities.
Oh wait...
2
Just what Texas needs, more spoiled west coast hipsters writing code and brewing craft beer. I believe we will look back at this era like we look back on 1980’s hair. What were we thinking?!
8
Jobs for Americans or more H-1Bs from India?
35
@Mack King
Where is the best-educated and most formidable talent?
Regrettably, that's often not the United States.
Hi-tech industry needs to move out of West Coast and CA
to grasp talents from all over the nation
especially 2nd tier cities
5
Say what you will about Apple but they didn’t Amazon this with stupid contests to get tax concessions. They just announced it. Thanks Apple!
228
@Suzanne
That's because they already got ten years of tax concessions six years ago.
http://www.kut.org/post/fine-print-austin-s-86-million-deal-apple
16
@Suzanne
Cities should be careful for what they wish for.
Usually, companies don't move in unless they get huge tax breaks, ditto for real estate developers. There is a lot of negotiations that occur with any city when a project of this size happens. The developer insists of tax deductions or deferment which is very costly for the city, as well as the city provide substantial road/sewage/infrastructure.
4
I live in Raleigh, NC. There were plenty of rumors that Apple was going to choose RTP as their next campus. As a resident of the Triangle, I am slightly disappointed that Apple did not choose this area. With all the issues that IBM is seeing, the tech scene in Raleigh could do with a signature company. Also, tech companies have changed the political and social landscape and I was looking forward to seeing that in Raleigh.
8
Nice. What about investing this money in some new product research and development that will create stuff that people will buy? Look at the Apple stock price today. It is down to the low 170's from a high of 230 just 6 weeks ago. The lack of innovative new products to take the pressure off I-phone sales is telling investors that the cash cow that was Apple is losing steam quickly.
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@paul
Do you have a suggestion for a "new product" that is as essential as the phone? I didn't think so. Many people have your suggestion, but nobody has a clue to what that indispensible "something" is. But here's a clue about why this isn't so easy: middle class incomes are not rising much at all these days.
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These jobs require highly skilled labor and that’s why they put them in a major college town like Austin. Trump may crow loudly and take credit for this, but these jobs do nothing for his base of rural factory voters. America will continue to move forward into the future without them.
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@EW It's sad that instead of accepting reality that these jobs are not coming back large segments of our society live in a fantasy that is neither supported by technology or economics. Instead of fighting these headwinds we should attempt to provide tangible and substantial support for people displaced by automation or globalization. We should provide real training, support their families, and move them if necessary. It's sad but a lot of communities are not prepared for the 21st century. But the future will come whether they are ready or not.
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The article does not address it, but it would be interesting to know if Apple received a tax incentive package from Texas / Austin similar to the one New York put together to entice Amazon to expand here. If so, how do they compare, and is Austin welcoming the jobs and enhanced economic activity that will surely follow Apple’s expansion there, or are its legislature and citizens up in arms about the prospect of additional traffic and congestion as with the spectacle over Amazon at the city council yesterday?
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@Jeffrey Zuckerman
I wonder that myself. I have not read of dissent and I don't know about incentives, but I doubt the folks in Austin will complain much about additional quality private sector jobs added to their economy. It seems many of the citizens up in arms here in New York were not born yet to have ever experienced what is was like to live in or navigate NYC in the mid 20th century amid the crime, corruption, and economics of the time. I'm truly hoping we do not ever have to revisit those times.
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@Jeffrey Zuckerman
They did receive some breaks/incentives when they moved to Austin years ago. Seems they will get a few more with this expansion.
https://www.statesman.com/news/20181213/apple-plans-new-1-billion-austin-campus-5000-more-jobs
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$30 billion out of about $252 billion. For everything but manufacturing. Imagine what ....$100 million might mean to small rural areas in any number of states- for one or two small manufacturing plants.
Imagine the impact on China if it saw Apple deciding to shift manufacturing elsewhere.
Imagine the sales promotion if my next Apple phone, iPad was ‘made in America’.
And imagine my concerns about buying a product made in China- with unknown additions built in. To say nothing of propping up a country that holds the strings of North Korea- and its missile bases.
Tough buying choice.
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@Jo Williams And imagine the cost of a phone made in America. Add 20 to 30 percent to the retail price. Apple competes with phones manufactured and sold by foreign entities that take advantage of the cheap labor the Apple also utilizes. Apple is a business. It's not a social service agency. It competes on a global scale. Moreover, if Apple were to manufacture its phones in the US, it probably would do so utilizing enhanced robotics. Even steel product manufacture in the US no longer employs the tens of thousands of workers it once did - steel is largely manufactured using robotic systems controlled by computer.
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What’s Apple’s profit margin? Heaven forbid it might drop a bit to pay good wages here. Robotics may take some jobs, but those robots still need supervision, repairs, replacements- from....where? Sorry, but this version of ‘global competition’ is just another way of saying - race to the bottom.
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@Jo Williams
Manufacturing a phone is a lot more complicated than hiring people. Billions of dollars would go into building manufacturing plants. Just so you'd know: companies save lots of money (billions of dollars) by using robots instead of people. Robots don't need supervisors or frequent repairs; that's why they are deployed in the first place.
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Wait....
The article doesn't say what Austin, San Diego and Boulder had to do to lure Apple!
We know de Blasio and Cuomo had to make huge concessions in the form of tax abatements and other incentives (long time NY businesses and residents are still expected to pay full rate) but you don't say whether Apple is demanding the same breaks as Amazon!
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How soon before Don Don tries to take "credit" for this normal business expansion?
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The area of the Apple campus, not many miles SW of me, is already gridlocked twice a day.
Regardless, how are all these non-manufacturing jobs justified if sales of their flagship products are waning? The glory days of the way overpriced iPhone and iPad are gone. That they choose to no longer report shipments is telling, and not in a good way. If shipments were at least stable, they would let the world know.
Like Amazon, Apple's stock price reflects enthusiasm more than principles. OTOH, as reported here very recently, Microsoft is nipping on the heels of Apple because of having the foresight to change what they do. More cloud, less hardware.
Honestly, I wish Apple the best. Competition is good. Really. but for now, my stock analyst (me), says SELL.
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@Jus' Me, NYT: What good is "more cloud" without hardware? Seems like a rather silly comparison; MS would need to sell hardware to access its cloud-based software and data, right? And there is no Android-based product that compares favorably in quality with Apple-based products. I resisted Apple back in the 1990's as overpriced for same value; now it's still overpriced, but higher value...and far higher value security-wise, the only product and company so committed to actual user privacy. I work in the privacy industry, so study this avidly...and do not work for Apple.
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With Texas so close to being a blue state now, this planned Apple expansion to Austin involving eventually fifteen thousand skilled young people and their families just might put it over the edge.
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An additional 15,000 in a state of 29 million isn’t going to make much of a difference.
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@Rick Morris, if only. The state government, headquartered in Austin, already considers the capital city a bright blue spot in the middle of an ocean of red. The expansion of Apple there will just make it a bluer island. The smarter way of impacting the political scene - if that’s what someone was after - would be the route the University of Texas System took, opening smaller campuses in cities throughout the state.
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@MDB: When only a minority of those people vote as everywhere else in this unintelligent country, and the 15K are of voting age as opposed to your total figure, your numbers lose their punch.
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If corporations like Apple insist they have the rights of Citizens, they should pay the Individual Income Tax. Citizens United allows Apple and others to buy into our elections as if "they" were one person.
Apple don't forget the North East, in your expansion, and we won't forget "you".
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This appears to be healthy, natural growth. Good for Apple; and, good for the local economies involved.
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They still won't have to pay taxes so we lose again.
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So why did Amazon get subsidized in Long IslNd City. Political leaders in NYC are lost in direction. They are giving close to 3 billion for Amazon to go to Long Island City. They could of built 3 billion in middle income and low income housing. It’s time to change this deal.
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AMZN should have never been given tax breaks to expand to LIC. But you are a little confused.
Not taxing a company or a person is not the government “giving” that company or person something.
The federal government lowering your tax rate from 39% to 36% is not the government giving you a 3% raise.
The $3 bln figure being bandied about is calculated based on NY’s (state and city) existing absurd tax rates. That’s the amount based on everything else staying the same NY calculates they are not charging AMZN. It’s not a gift.
Only governments and liberals look at money they never had as a gift to the people who didn’t have to pay it to them in the first place.
Cuomo and Komrade Warren “call me de Blasio because it sounds more ethnic” Wilhelm assumed that no company in their right mind would move here without a deal so they dutifully obeyed. Of course, all the sucker companies with 25-30,000 employees currently here get no breaks.
No need to subsidize an extremely large and highly profitable company's expansion plans. Same is true of Google's HQ2 in San Jose. No local incentives because there is no true need.
Why then are NYC and VA subsidizing AMZN?
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@Paul NYS has an allocation in its annual budget for incentives, whether or not it would have gone to Amazon. It was only 10 years ago that our economy was being whipsawed by banks going under in the financial crisis. Liberal pet programs in NYC are funded through taxes, a large portion of which comes from the financial services industry. Providing tax breaks, not handouts, to diversify our economy so that we all better weather future financial storms is a good decision, despite what twitter populists have to say about it.
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@Paul They are being subsidized -- by the federal tax code revisions.
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@Paul
Exactly! We have idiotic political leadership.
Finally, a major U.S. company that's turning from shareholders to actual investing in its own operations. We can only hope that other public companies will follow their lead. Otherwise the tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy will be meaningless.
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@DBA, Companies do not make investment decisions on "feels good" and "looks good" to the political class.
Note, this has nothing to do with manufacturing because the US does not produce the skilled workforce and quality standards needed for Apple to make its product here at a cost Americans will pay.
Trade wars will hurt companies like Apple and are not going to bring one bit of manufacturing back to the USA.
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@DBA
One assumes they are investing with money that they saved by moving their corporate headquarters offshore to reduce their tax liability to a country that makes their success possible.
Unless you happen to live on the Island of Jersey, let's hope that other public companies do not follow their lead. I've bought my last Apple product.
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Who said manufacturing? Jobs well paying jobs for qualified applicants
If you are an angry 55 year old white guy in a dead end blue collar job you will be permanrntly out of luck and out of work following this administrations
So called policies
So go ahead be angry ...but get your thieving hands off my hard earned income
You not the companies and people you blame
You are out of luck. And trump and his Neanderthal based attitudes will never ever help you. He and his oligarch friends just want you to be angry all the tine to be easily manipulated
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