I found the Guardian's article called - Cherie Chekatt: Who is the Strasbourg shooting suspect (by Kim Willsher in Paris) - to be most illuminating. Chekatt' background is similar to those of other terrorists in France. Most are children of immigrant Muslim parents and are born in France. Their childhoods are steeped in poverty, abandonment, chaotic families, poor education, and de-socialization that leads them to delinquency and an early life of petty crime or felonies that land them in ugly overcrowded prisons where they can be 'radicalized. Their crime friends become the family they never had.
A French anthropologist said "A fundamentalist discourse is more easily latched onto by people who don't feel important. . . It's about transferring a feeling of malaise into a feeling of being all powerful. They become important".
It's worth a read to go deeper on who these 'jihadists' are", especially if you click on each name highlighted in red,and read the full story of their backgrounds.
Nothing is aver as simple or black and white as we would like them to be.
3
The shooting and killing of two persons, injuring a dozen of peaceful citizen in Strasbourg in midst of tight security and hundreds of patrolling security personnels is an alarming concern to all .No doubt, a massive security failure is witnessed here that must be admitted by the security apparatus of the State.
Cherif Chekatt ,the youngman born in Strasbourg was convicted of crime at the age of 10.Since then in his 29 th year he has been charged and convicted of various 'hold ups' and other crimes in France,Germany and Switzerland on multiple occasions ,including jail term in Germany.
Despite such a blatant criminal records ,why Chekatt has not been arrested and subjected to proper judicial trial? This is the question that Strasbourg citizens are asking the French government.
How hollow it looks that with so many and so tight security check in place in the town ,particularly in the Christamas Market areas, Chekatt has been successful to penetrate the the areas around Christmas Market with knives and hand guns and committ heinous crime. Not only that he could hire a taxi after committing murder and escape the crowded scene and the police is miserably failing to trace him even three days after escape.!!!
It is a serious matter and cannot be ignored. It reflects how incompetent is our security apparatus.Most unfortunately, the entire administrative machinery in France and Germany is manned by a club " chummy of brotherthood incompetents".
3
France is a breathtaking destination for the billions who visit it annually and whose superficial approach to tourism doesn't include any understanding of its politics or society. The French count on their euros and their ignorance. But for those who are stuck living there, classism and racism put up insuperable barriers to those whose religion, racial or ethnic origin or even unconventional viewpoint sets them apart from the mainstream. Despite over two centuries of "egalite" the rigid barriers preventing upward mobility are the main reason that young people choose the nihilist path of terror.
4
The dead eyes I see in the photo of Mr. Chekatt are exactly the same as the dead eyes in the photo of James Alex Fields, the man who rammed his car into a crowd protesting a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville Va. in Aug of 2017, killing 1 and injuring many more.
Chekatt is 29, and Fields is 21. Both have disturbing pasts, considering their young ages. In my opinion young men with serious underlying emotional and mental problems often act out in the NAME of a cause whether it be white nationalism or Islamic terrorism, but rarely does ideology have much significance to them other than a reason to perpetrate violence.
Chekatt killed in the hometown he was born in. Fields was from Ohio but drove to Charlottesville for the White Nationalist rallies. Extreme violent ideologies will attract disturbed young male individuals, but I think we need to be careful about jumping off the deep end on Islamic terrorism or white nationalism being the MAIN cause of killings by these seriously disturbed individuals.
1
“The shooting recalled other attacks in recent years by Islamist extremists in France, Belgium and other parts of Europe.”
So why describe the extremists as Islamist?
This attack certainly appears to be part of a long series of horrific terrorist attacks carried out or inspired by Al Qaeda and ISIS. 2 innocent lives take, 12 wounded, lives of survivors and victims’ families shattered, entire community terrorized, a market clearly targeted for being a Christmas market.
I am not trying to the PC or charge anyone falsely of Islamophobia. I am fine with blaming religion overall for inspiring fanaticism, or Islam in particular for inspiring far too many terrorists in recent decades. Fine with valid and necessary criticism of Radical Islam, of Shi’a Iran, of Muslim Brotherhood (MB), of Islamists (often associated with MB).
But these attacks - includes 9/11, Boston, San Bernardino, Orlando, Europe, Middle East, Asia, Africa (most victims are in ME, Asia and Africa) - are carried out or inspired by Al Qaeda and ISIS - ideological foundation is Saudi Wahhabism. Not Iran. Not MB. Not Islamist.
The goal of Trump, Saudi, UAE, Isreal is to blame Iran or MB/Islamists for jihadi terrorism - please name these GLOBAL (not regional) terrorist attacks? - and divert attention away from Saudi Wahhabism that fuels Al Qaeda/ISIS and these global terrorist attacks. All for oil, weapons, money and to support Saudi Arabia/Israel.
Call them Wahhabi/Salafi jihadi terrorists - that’s far more accurate.
6
Tragically, we will continue to tolerate these attacks until the inevitable day that we don’t. There is never governmental accountability because our societies are too complex. This is not Macron’s fault. But like all unhealthy indulgences in life, eventually the bill comes due.
8
My husband and I were in Paris in November 2013 when terrorists attacked a concert venue and a soccer field. It was an experience I will never forget. My heart went out to the French people then and I continue to grieve for those so senselessly victimized by hatred no matter where they live. I hope and pray that some day there will truly be peace in the world.
19
@Susan
Amen to your closing sentence. Glad to read that you and your husband were not harmed, although I am sure emotionally, the trauma will always hover in the background. Take care.
5
Police bulletin. “Be on the lookout for a gunman, armed and dangerous. His first name is Cherif, report to police if you see him. His height, weight, hair color, skin color, and clothing will remain classified. But we will tell you his gender. We need your help but we don’t want to describe him anymore in order to not upset anyone who may take offense to our description of him.” This literally was a skit on the comedy show Studio C about 3 years ago.
29
@Shamrock “Suspect is known to respond to “Allahu Akbar”
10
"It remains unclear what motivated the gunman who opened fire at a Christmas market in Strasbourg, officials said, as the police continue an intensive search for the attacker..."
Surely people can't be this stupid. But that's probably too much to hope for.
26
Physical evidence?
From BBC.com
The main suspect, named by local media as Chérif Chekatt, is known to authorities as someone who was radicalised in prison
8
". . .the suspect had an extensive criminal record, with 27 convictions, mostly for robberies and assaults, in France, Germany and Switzerland". How does he get to move around so freely? Using the words "God is great" in Arabic reveals a mind set that no one can deny.
His full name is Cherif Chekatt.
27
This offender apparently was a career criminal, radicalized in prison. Muslims make up about 10% of the French population, but they constitute fully 60-70% of the French prison population.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042802560.html
Either the French justice system is far, far more bigoted and racist than the US justice system, or French Muslims are simply far, far more criminal than the the native French. Take your pick, but neither choice fits the liberal narrative here in the US, where every police officer and prosecutor is a racist, and every minority defendant, especially Muslims, are innocent victims of oppressive power, and where Europe is a shining example of how we should run our nation.
31
@Chuck French ~
"the liberal narrative here in the US, where every police officer and prosecutor is a racist ..."
Sorry, quoting Rush or Hannity doesn't make that statement true.
Want to [prove that all liberals and Democrats want a totally open border?
Providing security to your citizens is the main responsibility of any government. On this most important task, Macron is failing spectacularly as are all of the leaders of western Europe. Instead of plotting against the working class French with crippling taxes, Macron should be plotting against all of the thousands of criminals who are on watch lists such as this terrorist who still is at large. It is not as if the authorities did not know about this terrorist - he had a rap sheet in France and even Germany. Why was he not in jail or at least deported back to his own country? The disconnect of priorities is incredulous. Merkel and Marcon are 2 pees in the exact same pod. They ignore these dangers and in doing so pose a security risk to their citizens, some of whom have died at the hands of these terrorists. Merkel and Macron are globalist leaders instead of national leaders that their citizens so desperately need after so many terrorist attacks. They represent the old order, which is descendent. If they will not fulfil the security needs of their citizens, the citizens will eventually replace them with leaders who will.
32
@Philly - the suspect is a man born in Strasbourg. So "deported back to his own country" is kind of a disconnect.
But if you want to provide security to citizens in a country, perhaps something about guns? Note that in our nation, this guy's a piker.
Anyway, since Trump clearly is seeking business in Russia and elsewhere, and absolutely failed to protect Americans in the Pittsburgh temple from a radicalized terrorist (white, born in the USA, murderous, just as evil as the guy in France), are you suggesting Trump and his descendent old-order should be replaced?
9
@Philly Under Macron, 9 people have died in terrorist attacks, not including the terrorists themselves. Vermont has 10 murders per year. You're less likely to be killed by a terrorist in France than be murdered in Vermont. Stop fearmongering.
8
Obama said at a CNN town hall that he doesn’t use the term Islamic terrorism because he doesn’t want to lump all Muslims in with the terrorist. Have you ever heard anyone make the same argument when the terrorist is a Christian?
13
@Shamrock I don't recall ever hearing that a terrorist was a Christian, which most in the US are, white men too.
@Shamrock
The greatest number of mass shootings in America are by white males who own guns. Far more domestic terrorism (though there is no criminal charge nor clear definition for domestic terrorism) is done by white nationalists - often some version of Christianity e.g KKK. White male Christians kill abortion doctors and those at Planned Parenthood centers. White males kill at synagogues to kill Jews who are helping the immigrant caravan demagogued by Trump. White nationalist males kill blacks at Church to start a race war.
Should we call them White terrorists? Christian terrorists? Should we profile all white Christian males?
Obama’s not President anymore. Neither is Hillary Clinton.
Our President - that’s Trump - supports Saudi Arabia that gave us Bin Laden, 15 of 19 9/11 terrorists, Wahhabism that is ideological foundation for Al Qaeda and ISIS.
I am fine with calling these terrorists, like the one apparently who carried out this horrific terrorist attack at a Christmas market in France, Wahhabi/Salafi jihadists - that’s the accurate term. It’s not Islam overall or Shi’a Iran or Muslim Brotherhood Islamists that fuels this global terrorism. And Trump supports Saudi Arabia while you worry about what Obama said.
2
@MC
Statistics specify the number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and June 28, 2018, by race and ethnicity of the shooter(s) as 59 out of 101 mass shootings being initiated by White shooters.
So although the grand aggregate of mass shootings were committed by white males, when you take into account the larger white percentage of the U.S. population, there have actually been fewer shootings committed by whites compared to non-whites on a per capita basis.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-s...
1
«A brain is a terrible thing to waste»
It's become too easy for criminals behind computers to brainwash and entice a hot head into committing such malicious crimes against civilians.
With all kinds of promisses such as possessing big stuff on earth or meeting many virgins in heaven a deranged person with a criminal mind is easily manipulated from miles away on the Internet into committing horrendous crimes against children women, old folks of Strasbourg, Boston, LA, NY etc, or anyone who happens to be there at the wrong time? It doesn't make sense. How's this guy been able to evade surveilance for so long? How come nobody in his entourage noticed he was going bezirk?
2
If the same exact scenario occurred in the US there would be liberal opinion writers blaming Christians for inciting violence by engaging in the buying and selling of Christmas themed products in a city were Muslims lived. Actually, one doesn’t have to guess what would happen if you opened a Christmas market in Egypt, Syria or Saudi Arabia. You would never get to the point of setting out the garland before being arrested or attacked.
24
@Shamrock
So you can’t find Christmas themed products being bought and sold in the US? Because liberals are blaming Christians for inciting violence by buying and selling Christmas products in cities where Muslim live? I believe it is quite possible to buy and sell Christmas themed products everywhere in America, even in cities where liberals live, and even - shockingly - where Muslims live. If there have been opinions against Christmas events - it’s been to stop public or government funding of these events - to comply with an interpretation (not universally accepted - establishment of religion is clearly forbidden by Federal government, less clear about state/local governments, but 14th Amendment about equal protection under the law applies also) of the First Amendment - it’s been groups like ACLU or Atheist or Agnostic groups and at times Jewish groups, it’s almost never been Muslim groups.
Egypt, Syria, Lebanon have large Christian populations - even after being under Muslim rule for almost 14 centuries. These Christian minorities have come under increasing persecution, but only primarily in the last few decades. From 1416 to 1917 the Ottoman Empire ruled Jerusalem with Muslims, Christians and Jews living in the most peaceful era of Jerusalem’s long history. You are, however, correct about Saudi Arabia - there are no Churches or Synagogues allowed in Saudi Arabia. Yet, Saudi Arabia is the country Trump supports blindly - for oil, for weapons sales, for Netanyahu’s Israel.
2
@MC
So the stories of Christians killed in Egypt are false?
7
@MC - Have you ever heard of the word "dhimmis"? The myth of happy Christians and Jews living in the Ottoman Empire is just that - a myth. When you have to dress differently than the majority so as the single you out, not build a home larger than a Muslim's, pay a tax because of who you are, wear a yellow insignia on your coat (guess the Nazis copied that symbol), etc., etc. -- what do you call that?
11
The suspect had "27 convictions, mostly for robberies and assaults, in France, Germany and Switzerland." Sound like France could benefit from a 3-strikes law to incarcerate such felons for life, and save innocent lives.
12
And people wonder why all Europe is lurching to the far RIGHT?
24
Thank goodness the authorities are protecting the terrorists last name. The last thing you want to do during a manhunt is identify to the public who you are searching for. This sounds like a scene from “The Pink Panther.”
20
Another horrible terrorist attack.
For the gun violence portion of the debate, comparative data for US and France https://www.gunpolicy.org :
Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population:
France: 19.6 (2017), 31.2 (2005)
US: 120.5 (2017), 101.1 (2007)
Gun ownership has been going down in France. US has more guns than people with gun ownership going up (though even in 2017, only 42% of American households owned one or more guns). US is #1 in the world in civilian firearm possession.
Rate of All Gun Deaths per 100,000 People:
France: 2.65 (2013, latest data), 3.32 (2005)
US: 11.96 (2016), 10.37 (2007)
No other industrialized, developed country has close to the gun rate death as US.
A good summary article: https://frenchly.us/firearms-are-france-and-the-united-states-really-that-different/
Everyday is US:
96 people die from gun violence. 34 murders, 59 suicides.
246 people are shot and survive.
Everyday.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/key-gun-violence-statistics
It’s not terribly complicated, more guns mean more gun deaths.
France has seen a surge of jihadi terrorism - all carried out or inspired by Al Qaeda or ISIS, all ideologically founded on Saudi Wahhabism, not Iran, not Muslim Brotherhood - since 2015. It has declined since 2016 peak, but this attack shows the threat is still very much present. The terrorist weapons have been firearms and also vehicles.
3
Terrorism has been quiet for a while in Europe and limited to individual acts of hate. But wth the recent spate of riots in France, I can only think that the terrorists are inspired by the chaos and will step up their attacks. Violence begets violence... Yellow Jackets... It does! The motivations are different but the result s the same... to bring down the state.
9
So the French don’t have a right to protest because some radical elements might come out too? I guess they should all just shut up and do as they’re told right? I’m sure that would fly with you here regarding trump right?!
6
@marrtyy Not the same. Try again.
6
@Nick
They can protest all they want. And they have. But they have to be responsible for their actions. We already know that they are being aided by the Russians and the far right. Now the middle east wants to sneak in under the cloud of smoke bombs.
This article shocked and horrified me because I studied music in Strasbourg for a year when in college. A beautiful city filled with beautiful, warm and enchanting people.
Deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of the two murdered victims and a speedy recovery to the 12 individuals who were wounded.
Residents of Strasbourg and France please know that you are not alone. You have countless friends and supporters in the U.S. I love you all so very much.
67
You write: "The Strasbourg Christmas market, which started in 1570, is one of France’s most popular winter events.
You should write : " ...1570, is one of EUROPE'S most popular winter events.
Thanks, and MERRY XMAS TO EVERYBODY.
8
@François-Frédéric
I agree, M. Francois-Frederic (désolée; pas d'accent sur mon clavier).
However: "XMAS" is neither an American word nor correct greeting, no matter what you may see or read.
Merry "Christmas" is the proper greeting.
Joyeux Noël et Merry Christmas to you from a native New Yorker married to un français!
1
@Butterfield8
Sorry, but what are you talking about? What is an "American word..." ?
The word 'xmas' has been in usage in english speaking countries since - literally - the 16th century. It is a proper word and it is defined in almost every dictionary out there, including Webster's. It has been in constant use in America for at least the last 100 years.
YOU may not like it, but that doesn't mean you get to deny its authenticity and its fact-based existence.
3
"...the attacker was able to escape and took a taxi to another area of Strasbourg. The driver told the police that the gunman had described the attack to him and tried to justify it."
What was his justification? It would help to know... the best thing to prevent attacks is to understand how it is that people get to this point.
6
@MJB
The media don’t want you to know the details. Move along. Nothing to see here.
5
@MJB
Hang on, he took a taxi to get away? Did he hold the gun to the driver's head? And offered an explanation on the way? Was the taxi driver a muslim by any chance? Almost as disgusting as the Canadian who said 'thanks' when the terrorist there said 'don't worry, i'm not gonna shoot you' because he was brown skinned. The guy said 'thanks' and let the killer go on to murder two young girls. This taxi driver is either a victim or an accomplice and the police need to determine which.
8
Macron has his priorities oh so very wrong.
He wanted to be the de facto leader of the EU by heroically combatting Global Climate Change instead of addressing the base needs of the French, by whom and for whom he was elected.
He is an out of touch elitist who is not addressing the real needs of the French – physical and economic security.
France for some time has had a slight problem with Islamic terrorism, and illegal mass migration, which are linked problems; both will adversely impact the French much more than Global Climate Change will.
Also, he is in such a bubble that he does not understand the economic concerns of his own citizens, most of whom live pay check to pay check His proposals are too little too late and were not proactively proposed but only reactively. That is not a real leader who reacts to his citizens instead of one who intrinsically knows what their needs are.
He should focus on national and economic security issues and not globalists or even EU issues. Or else the French will replace him with a leader who will, such as Marine Le Pen, who campaigned to address both of these issues that plague France, much more than Global Climate Change plagues France.
10
Not clear how a mass shooting event could be anything but terrorism, no matter what the perpetrator yelled.
75
Then you don’t understand the meaning of the word. It has to be connected to a political agenda.
7
@Pat
Not sure how anyone would think this attack has nothing to do with Islam.
20
@Max
A distinction without a difference.
4
Muslims and Christianity are like oil and water.
And too much blood arises in the mixture.
15
@JM No, religious extremists are the problem. People of various religions and national origins live together in peace around the world. Your comment is like saying that whites and blacks are like oil and water to excuse the KKK racists.
7
@Jeff One day you will learn Jeff. One day....
9
And people wonder why there is a popular backlash in Europe against Muslim immigration?
43
@Naysayer
Note: the attacker was born in Strasbourg. He's French.
3
@Naysayer
The suspect was a French citizen born in Strasbourg.
That is not to say I don't agree with your sentiment, because I do. Enough of organized religion and all the nasty, hoary, duplicitous, ignorant behavior it constantly tries to excuse and obscure! Utterly infantile!
Its a sorry replacement for the purer brotherhood and humanity that each homosapien thrives on and craves. Its a grand hideout for the truly weakest among us - whatever the race, color or origin - who gather together and finance and protect murder, maiming, rejection, torture, sexual abuse, ignorance and violence!
5
@Austro Girl - Yes but he's Muslim and yelled the usual "God is Great." Thus, perhaps, some people don't want more of this, wherever it comes from.
9
They should fire and/or cancel the contracts of the private security companies who were in charge of checking people crossing the bridges into Strasbourg centre and the Xmas market (the only access points into that area).
We had our handbags opened and re-opened and checked every time we crossed that bridge, while next to us a line of other people 'in a hurry'? were let pass without any control.
22
In response to Edmund Dantes who writes
" Once again, an attack by a "known wolf." What steps will Macron take to get ahead of this cancer that plagues France?"
Yes, the suspect was on fice s , the list used by French law enforcement to flag an individual considered to be a serious threat to national security.
But France is a country of law. Although the right has argued that this should be enough to deport such individuals , it can not be done , merely on suspicion. Nor is perpetual surveillance of those on fiche s - about 20 000 are on the list - feasible. There is not enough man power to do so.
These acts of terrorism are the price for having a State of Law.
France is not China, that locks up Uighur Muslims in concentration camps simply because a vanishing small minority of them committed acts of terrorism in the past.
15
Deport where? He is a French citizen.
4
Why keep the perp's last name a secret?
31
@kwb
Because he is still a suspect and has not yet been confirmed as the attacker and charged with a crime.
In short, we don't know for sure he is the 'perp'!
Mob justice serves no one.
2
15 Terrorist plots thwarted. It sounds like you may have a problem with Islamic extremism in your country France.
37
An earlier version of this article had "... motive unclear" in the headline but then stated in the article that he was yelling Allahu akbar. The NPR audio story on this never mentioned Islam or Muslim, only his age and prior convictions. Whether intentional or not, the hesitancy to mention radical Islam is not helping. It's actually feeding the right-wing conspiracy theorists and giving fodder to their 'can't trust the media' position.
60
Crazy that NPR and others like to wait till they have facts, eh?
13
@Jeff 'It's actually feeding the right-wing conspiracy theorists and giving fodder to their 'can't trust the media' position.'
Or maybe it isnt a conspiracy, but a real threat.
Tell that to the endless stream of victims.
7
@Jeff
Correct! And let’s not talk about the squeamishness of French media who did not identify the terrorist by name until late in the day, while his name was on the front page of every British or German newspaper... doesn’t anybody thought that publishing his profile earlier might have helped capturing him?
15
nothing to see here, look over here at the really bad nationalists, or racists complaining about open borders.
Diversity liberalism has given us is always good.
40
@Lane Unless you have an inside track with the French government you don't know much about this guy than what the French police have revealed. He's got a Arabic-sounding first name but was born in Strasbourg,has an extensive criminal record and reported shouted a common Islamic expression. On that basis, you seek to distract readers from the hatred spewed by opponents of lawful immigration. For all you know this guy could be a fourth generation Frenchman.
@Alan Mass
"Hatred spewed by opponents of lawful immigration"? Who is against lawful immigration? The United States accepts 1 million lawful immigrants each and every year. How is it possible you cannot distinguish between reasonable arguments against Illegal Immigration and hatred spewed by opponents of lawful immigration? Who is responsible for the backlash against immigrants? The citizens of the countries welcoming the lawful arrivals, or the illegals who are busting their way in and abusing the process at the expense of everyone else? Who is distracting from who here?
5
“It’s clear this was not an attack on Christians or Christianity even though it was at a Christmas market and had nothing to do with Islam even though the gunman yelled the common phrase of Islamic radicals.” That’s my prediction of how this event will be described in the US media.
45
@Shamrock
Why do you feel that way? The us media usually is accused of having an anti- Arab slant
How many people were hurt in this attack?
This article gives the amount killed and seriously injured but not a total.
4
And on it goes...more innocent lives lost as the far left pushes its destructive agenda...more innocent lives will be lost.
25
A handgun and a knife. Imagine the carnage if he had been able to easily purchase an AR-17.
42
@Bec
I hear ya but to be honest, this country does not have to imagine that kind and degree of carnage for we have witnessed and read more than our share of horror and death.
4
Unfortunately, acts of terror by Muslims during the Christmas holidays has become an annual occurrence in Europe. Despite this, the UN and elites at the EU are oblivious to these events while passing a pact with respect to migrants the day before that makes no mention of the increased crime, anti-Semitism and terror brought by the millions of migrants from the Middle East. Is it any wonder that nationalism is on the rise and the desire for sovereignty and control of borders a natural response to such onslaught.
52
Unfortunately, murderous attacks by Christians and white racists have become a regular feature of life in America. Despite this, our government has refused to...you see where I’m going with this?
Breivik isn’t a Muslim. Root isn’t. That clown who killed faithful Jews at a synogogue in Cleveland isn’t. The murders of docs and nurses and tirchers of clinics aren’t. And the list goes on.
3
@Iconoclast Texan I suspect terrorists and mass murderers go to Christmas markets in Europe for the same reason that bank robbers go to banks. That's where people are, lots of them, so even a bad shot is going to hit multiple people.
2
"..one was currently brain dead." Actually two are brain dead. The innocent victim (who i hope recovers and can lead a full life)
And the terrorist. (my hopes for him are a bit different).
14
It's so sad what is happening in France. Europe just doesn't feel safe anymore. The irony is that the mass shootings in the US don't seem to be carried out by Mexicans (and other Central Americans) coming across the southern border.
15
@Lorenzo, Depends upon where you live.
LA, Bay Area, Tucson, Phoenix, Boston or Long Island may have a few.
2
It’s really time to admit that radical Islam is incompatible with the rest of the world. Those who profess it, even if they do not act on it, are opposed to democracy, the separation of church and state, equality for women, anything inconsistent with their world view. Such people should, when identified, be deported or at least separated from Western society. Sure, it will drive some underground, and won’t stop attacks. And yes, we have our own nativist terrorists in the West. But that is no excuse. Radical Islamists will never integrate. Their goal is and always will be conversion or conquest. We who are not Muslim are not obliged to cater to them. If they wish to live in our societies, they must adapt. Not us. I know of no one who would choose to live in a Muslim country, and few who would visit any except Turkey. That says a great deal to me, as most in my acquaintance are progressives, and no, not mostly Jewish, as I am not. Just an old, fed up white guy.
57
@Publius
I agree that radical Islam -- and radicalism in all its forms -- is incompatible with an open and democratic society.
About your call for deportation or separation, my question is how to identify clearly those who are radicalized and distinguish them from those who simply practice a particular faith or philosophy. At what point do we cross over from a free society to a police state?
I am as anxious and despairing about these acts as most people are. And my questions are sincere. At the risk of stating the obvious, I must add that it can be easy to slide from singling out the potentially dangerous to vilifying all members of a particular ethnic or religious group.
How does a society protect itself from treacherous and destabilizing influences while remaining free?
9
@Publius We should treat radical Christian fundamentalists (see: Dylann Roof)--also incompatible with Western values--the same way we treat radical Muslim fundamentalists: There is no place here. for religious fundamentalists of any stripe.
9
@e w- The main difference is you can find hundreds of Imams preaching violence (in Arabic) and few denouncing it! Where were the Imans speaking out regarding the freedom in the West to depict Mohammad? You find virtually no Christian preachers promoting violence against those whose satirize Jesus.
17
Anyone with 27 convictions for things including assaults should not be out walking the streets. Especially someone who is clearly radicalized, and considered dangerous enough to be on special watch lists.
Doesn't France have any kind of career criminal law?
74
@Saddha
Here in the US we have a president who incites to riot, attacks the freedom of the press, and has been the subject of federal, state, criminal charges, and engages in hate speech, for decades. Mr. Trump's forms of terrorism have and will continue claim far more lives than the Islamic terrorists will. Knowing a person's criminal past doesn't help, as you see. It is as impossible to screen them and protect France from the likes of Chérif C. since, in comparison, we in the US can't protect ourselves nor the world from Trump's criminal behavior. I share your dismay.
9
@Saddha, And here in California our good hearted politicians are doing all they can to release violent recidivists from jail, you know, to rehabilitate them.
4
How many of these kinds of attacks go on in non-diverse places like Japan? Scotland? I’m sure those places have their own set of issues, but let’s not pretend that having a socially cohesive society doesn’t also mitigate problems like the ones France seemingly deals with on an ongoing basis.
76
@Kirby non-diverse?....socially cohesive? I'm confused. Are you implying that a lack of diversity = social cohesiveness and therefore a lack of citizens who want to do harm to others? And how then to explain the many young white American men who kill their own young white American peers in mass shootings?
13
@Kirby
scotland is a pretty diverse country. Look up the statistics. Have you ever been to Glasgow or Edinburgh?
14
@Sanjay I did look at the statistics. Did you? According to Scotland's wikipedia page, it is 96% white. If you have a source with alternate or more accurate info, please share it.
21
Look at my shocked face.
I thought gun control worked? So why does this guy have a gun? A lesson for liberals. It does NOT work.
26
@Sparky Jones
It was NOT bought legally. Black market !
Not like in the US
36
@Sparky Jones: And how many of these mass shootings occur in France compared to the numbers in the US? Don’t take one event as an indictment of gun control; look at patterns of events. Oh, that’s right, I forgot that Congress’ absurd Dickey amendment prohibits the collection and analysis of gun ownership and violence in the context of public health research.
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@Sparky Jones Please don't insult our intelligence. Does strict gun control work? Of course it does. Just look at the data from every developed nation apart from the US. Does strict gun control prevent every shooting? Of course it doesn't. But then I'm pretty sure you knew that when you proposed your ridiculous strawman.
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What exactly is the "defensive grenade" found in the suspect's apartment? How does it differ from a regular grenade?
Once again, an attack by a "known wolf." At least the authorities are admitting that this is more islamic terrorism, and not insulting the intelligence of people with excuses. What steps will Macron take to get ahead of this cancer that plagues France?
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@Edmund Dantes
The old terminology said that a 'defensive' grenade was one that fragments and makes use it from cover. 'Offensive' was pure explosive and killed by blast along but the stun effect was useful.
I've never read much lately that still uses those terms.
1
I have exactly the same question.
According to France 24, the Paris prosecuting attorney has just said that the suspect has 27 convictions across three countries, France, Germany and Switzerland. That is not 27 arrests, that is 27 convictions.
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So why was he not deported? If he was born in Europe then send him back to his ancestral homeland.
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@Epicurus this guy is giving recidivism a bad name.
i suggest that France consider a "27 strikes and you're out" rule.
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@RDC Legally, there's no such thing as an ancestral homeland. What if his parents were born in France, & his grandparents. Is what you're saying that only white people have a right to live in France.
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