No government agency should hold a religious position, perhaps especially HHS.
22
Literally as soon as a baby is born the GOP doesn't care. Do you know that the Trump administration tried to end newborn screening for hearing loss? That's right. 3/1000 baby is born with hearing loss that if undetected and dealt with promptly, can lead to developmental delays. But what did they care? It's not a fetus, so they didn't care. I worked for an organization that thankfully was able to lobby successfully to prevent this, but come on!
34
Just like the stem cell ban under Reagan and Bush, this will help the US fall further behind in medical advances and cures. The US is already losing its technological advantage to China, Japan, Korea, and the EU, why not make it complete because all the big pharmaceutical multi-nationals still do their research overseas (translate: high paying jobs being outsourced) because of the US stance on fetal tissue.
The US will pay at the counter and with their lives for this religious pressured insanity. Most who are against the use of fetal tissue will demand the benefits. Hypocrisy at its best, but that is their one consistent trait.
21
My contribution to this discussion:
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/recording/393327588375405830?assets=true
or
http://www.morehere.org/content.php/1261-webinars
(Information found at the above links address some of the issues raised in this article.)
Thou shalt not kill.
1
This is the result of a fundamental misunderstanding that has caused pro-choice and pro-science advocates to totally miss the boat on advocacy and lobbying. The scientific community is doing the same thing they've always done, and the same thing pro-choice advocates have done, to push back. They list all the accomplishments, benefits, and plans of the research while absolutely refusing to address the misconceptions and lies that actually drive the anti-abortion movement. While these people, nearly half the country, firmly believe that babies pop into existence at the instant of conception (it's not an "instant") there is absolutely no hope for either abortion or research using fetal tissue. They truly honestly believe that the Gerber baby is being put to the knife by greedy evil people profiting from abortion. As long as their beliefs are treated as sacred, as long as they are left to believe that they have absolute certainty, they will make the rest of us live under their beliefs.
10
The United States is not a theocracy! Bearing that in mind, how dare lawmakers try to rule based on their own religious affiliations. The fact that fetuses are no longer available for medical research is a travesty. What happens to fetuses after abortion is NOT the state's business. The fact that such research can save lives, or ease pain, cannot be dismissed simply because our current lawmakers believe in the fairytales of organized religion. I am a citizen, born in this country and I resent the government ignoring my inalienable rights to believe what I wish.
24
@Nancy Unfortunately it won't be the first time that the country has been forced to live under one narrow religious interpretation of morality and anti-science "alternative facts". And they are being allowed to get away with it. The accepted talking points aren't working. The core of anti-abortion misconceptions have to be dealt with on a large scale.
8
I am a patient who terminated a pregnancy for medical reasons. My baby, who my husband and I very much wanted, had anencephaly and would never survive outside the womb. Given my experience, I'm not sure how I feel about this research. On one side, as an adult, I am an organ donor, I would fully consider donating my own tissue to science, and I work in an academic medical center where patients no doubt benefit from this type of research daily. It is reasonable to use this tissue in an effort to combat human suffering in the living and an inefficient use of funds to try to find an alternative when so many pressing uses for the funding exist.
That said, it seems to me there is an underlying assumption here that these babies were not wanted so we might as well use their tissue for whatever society needs. This is hurtful to me. I don't know if my child's fetal tissue would be useful for research given its fatal fetal anomaly. But I also don't have the slightest clue what I consented to because I was so distraught. The consent process to terminate a pregnancy under my circumstances is already brutal; I'm not sure presenting me with more information about how my baby's tissue would be used would have been considered an enhancement.
I would have wanted someone to gain from my loss, but this does leave me with open questions about whether I could or should have done more to protect my baby's tissue after its death.
4
@LM
"whether I could or should have done more to protect my baby's tissue"
My sympathies for your loss, but, protect it from what? There's an implicit acceptance there that something nefarious is going on. There isn't.
15
@Mike Holloway
There isn't something nefarious going on. But at a time when mothers like me have many open questions, like "What did I do to cause this? and "What can I do to prevent this from happening again?" to which there are no answers, the question of what happened to my child's remains should not be one of them.
I said I wasn't prepared for more thorough consenting, and I wasn't, but in the American medical system, that doesn't matter. For good reason. Parents should have better information about what happens with their baby's tissue. I don't recall some of what happened due to my emotional state, but I also don't recall because what was given to me was vague.
2
@LM I'm sorry for your loss. I respectfully ask you to consider that, if what happened to the remains is used for medical research to help others, isn't that a wonderful thing that honors your child's memory?
17
I just completed a word search on my Chrome browser while loading up this article. I searched for the word "vivisection". It does not appear in the article. However, it might be of interest that in conversation following a presentation at the Fleet Science Center in Balboa Part, San Diego, California, the moderator of the discussion and presentations, John Evans, Phd. UCSD, agreed that such research, discussed in your article, was, in fact, human vivisection. Perhaps the word does not appear in your article because you do not want to associate the word with research that may overstep the ethical boundaries held by many intelligent pro-science persons, and who might prefer to see such research ended.
1
@ Michael Roach
Your attempt to depict research involving fetal tissue as “vivisection” must fail because vivisection is defined as operating on a LIVING creature. By definition the fetuses providing the tissue are not living beings.
22
@Michael Roach
No. Cherry picking, misrepresentation, "alternative science", and paranoid conspiracies are not "pro-science". Morality in the US is not mandated by one narrow faction ignoring the moral views of the majority.
12
One of the ways intruding on reproductive freedom damages all of us, in addition to low income women.
10
China should offer these researchers triple their pay plus bonuses to move their research to a generously funded lab in a top notch university in Beijing. Then China could patent the discoveries.
8
Dangerous ideas when pseudoscience wins out in medical research. Next thing the religionists go after is transplant surgery deciding that god does not approve. This will end the lives of many people who need new kidneys, hearts, etc. These people NEVER stop their obsessions about when life begins. They also want to continue to control women's reproductive processes.
21
So, it's better to bury the bodies in the ground where they rot (or cremate them) than to use cells (not "body parts," which sounds like an arm here and a leg there) to help save countless other lives? Where is the "pro-life" in that stance?
48
I seriously doubt Donald Trump even understands what Fetal tissue research is. The is Pence pleasing pandering to his deplorable Christian Right. Don't forget for every reaction there will be a equal reaction. America is tired of Fundamentalist Christians and their bludgeoning of other Americans rights and freedoms. I think in a post Trump America, Americans will seriously debate if religion is a positive thing that deserves special tax treatment in America.
25
There's a scene in the Outlander TV series where Claire and Gellis Duncan are on trial, accused of being witches. Watching the portrayal of the pre-scientific townspeople makes you ponder how little the religious right has changed since the Middle Ages.
18
Every step of the way this administration has made it clear that people need to die from lack of scientific research and healthcare (and preferably in poverty after paying every last dollar to big pharma). The fetus stays, the woman carrying the fetus and every other living person is expandable. Such a good christian attitude from the GOP Jesus gang (strongest sarcasm fully intended)
19
@SW
While the woman carrying the fetus will indeed be expandable as her forced pregnancy continues I think the word you were looking for is expendable. Fetal matter, including dead fetal matter is the only thing that matters. Women's lives don't.
Jesus said nothing about abortion and plenty about helping those in poverty. The fundamentalist Christian in name only don't even seem to have the faintest idea of Jesus' teachings.
16
@White Buffalo
Anti-abortion misconceptions of human development became required ideology for Evangelical Protestants only after Roe v Wade. The news inspired viewing abortion as part of "sexual immorality".
4
What took them so long ??? And what a coincidence, targeting studies to prevent or treat H.I.V.. you know, that " gay disease ". A two-fer.
Go back to the Middle Ages, zealots. You'll die from a hideous disease, but first you can burn some Witches. Good times.
38
Simply stated, for the less-educated among us, those opposing the use of fetal tissue to save lives are ignorant and nothing short of criminal. THEY can choose to not be a part of these programs, but they have no right to impose their Juracic ignorance upon then rest of humanity. NO RIGHT. They are free to practice their religious beliefs but NOT to impose them upon others.
As we tilt toward authoritarianism and dystopia, more and more abusive people forget what our Constitution and its founding principles are all about. It would behoove them to learn quickly before a reckoning arrives as a Constitutional Crisis, which they will lose. If they are so convinced that their beliefs are "the word of God", let them invite shim to a Trump Rally to speak to all humans. I am not holding my breath.
22
@RealTRUTH
Republicans have no interest in freedom of religion or separation of church and state. The only Bill of Rights Amendment they care about is their twisted perverted version of the 2nd Amendment, which under their misinterpretation deletes half the language.
They have zero knowledge about what the Founding Father's views were on this subject. None other than George Washington said the United States was not a Christian country. They should read what Jefferson wanted on his grave, the thing he felt most proud of, drafting Va's version of the provision guaranteeing the the separation of church and state.
Hillary Clinton never spoke truer words than when she characterized them as deplorable.
22
I thought gorillas and chimps could get HIV too. Does anyone know if that is true?
@Kb
A related virus. Not HIV.
2
This will probably last until some high ranking Republican develops a disease that might be cured by this research, as happened when Nancy Reagan decided that embryonic stem cells were okay because they might help Ronnie's Alzheimer's.
Seems that Republicans can only alter their views if something directly affects them or their family. (See also Dick Cheney and gay marriage.)
38
@PM
Nancy Reagan was always strongly pro-choice. There is plenty to fault this woman with -- no need to make stuff up. But of course she did not control policy.
Ronald was pro-choice until he decided to sell out to the reactionary religious right Taliban. Ronald signed one of the first state legalization of abortion laws while governor of CA.
And then there was Poppy Bush, strongly pro-choice and anti voodoo economics until he sold his soul to become Reagan's VP.
Republicans have no problem altering their views if they think it will get them power. Besides, the rules don't apply to them. See email server, Hillary Clinton v Colin Powell, Bush II, Ivanka Trump and plenty more.
21
Anti-science morons. That says it all. Why do anti-choicers think having the procedure such an easy decision. It is NOT. The right is the first to turn their backs on single parents who decide to go on with the unexpected pregnancy and when they fall into poverty the right says "your not working hard enough to have 'so many kids'. Mind your business.
30
I would just migrate this important research to a more progressive country like Canada. At some point in the future after Trump is gone it can return. Geography is not destiny -- go where your work is appreciated.
18
No person who has ever publicly advocated or endorsed this policy or contributed money or services to any organization that was known at the time to have advocated or endorsed this policy should be permitted to receive any medication or medical treatment that was, directly or indirectly, developed using fetal tissue.
And while we're at it, no such person, and no such person who has ever publicly advocated or endorsed the denial of a woman's right to chose, or contributed money or services to any organization that was known at the time to have advocated or endorsed the denial of a woman's right to choose, should ever be permitted to obtain an abortion in the United States.
The names of each person violating the foregoing shall be prominently published at least annually until ten years after the death of their last surviving child.
Organizations advocating such policies shall be required to list, in any advertisement or solicitation, and prominently include a link on each social media post to a list of, the names of each person who has contributed money or services to it who has at any time had an abortion or used any such medication or any medical procedure.
18
The zealots should focus on the causes of abortion. Once the abortion has occurred, throwing the fetus into the bin would be unethical, a life truly wasted. Using the tissue for medical research is the most ethical thing that can be done.
50
@sissifus there is a Mormon mother of 6 who says abortion is caused by pregnancy which is caused by (wait for it) "irresponsible ejaculations of men". https://twentytwowords.com/mormon-mother-radical-advice-abortions-in-america/?utm_source=facebook-long&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=22
7
So much hypocrisy!
25