I think Gen. Flynn should have gotten a recommendation for some leniency in sentencing in return for substantial cooperation with the special counsel, but no jail time seems excessive leniency. After all he was the one leading the rally chant: " Lock her up."(Hillary Clinton-in case we have all forgotten) ; and who also assured us that if he had done even 1/10th of what she did he'd be in jail.
4
A stupid and vicious chant, and a stupid public lie, are not illegal. What Flynn did when he lied to the FBI after colluding with the raussian Ambassador is.
5
Mr. Flynn not only agreed to cooperate early, he also offered up significant information. To meet 19 separate times with Mr. Mueller and to provide significant information that will be used in three investigations suggests that for all of the treacherous actions Mr. Flynn took, he also appears to have attempted to at least in part, to atone for that treachery in a full and complete manner.
Mueller's request for a lenient sentence for Flynn removes Flynn's need for a pardon, and with it, the prospect of the president influencing the outcome of a trial while saving his own skin. In other words, the tactic is likely to serve justice...a higher justice.
3
I still scratch my head in bewilderment thinking about Michael Flynn. I just looked at his Wikipedia page and he has more degrees than a stove. How could an educated seemingly squared away military man throw in with ignorance like this?
3
@Stan
Because Mueller and Rosenstein are trying to cover up their numerous felonies that include lying to the FISA court to enable Obama to spy on a presidential campaign.
Trump is saving those documents for when it really matters.
1
Oh, really. And where’s Trump keeping these “documents?” A hip pocket, right next to Obama’s real birth cert and his own tax returns?
6
I have no idea what Flynn did for Turkey, whether or not it was legal. But his conversation with the Russian Ambassador have the appearance of a nothing burger. From the perspective of trust, yes, Trump had reason to get rid of Flynn, but his conversation with the Russian ambassador were not illegal according to anything I've read. Certainly not as overt as Kerry lobbying for the Iran deal and against Trump to our allies.
Flynn only urged the Russian ambassador to not escalate the situation. That can be seen in a number of ways, but it certainly was good advice. And the Trump admin hasn't removed the sanctions. There are bigger questions such as -- how did the justice dept know about the content of the conversation between Flynn and the ambassador? Why did Obama wait to sanction Russia over hacking when he'd known about it for months?
And it is very easy to see why Flynn lied to the FBI. The Obama admin was pushing the Russia helped Trump win the election narrative at the time and he may have wanted to minimize any appearance of working with the Russians. Again, what he did wasn't illegal but any hint of even reasonable cooperation with Russia by a Trump official would fan the MSM craze on the issue.
1
This is a BIG test of whether our institutions can survive the onslaught against them. Destroy the FBI, weaken the justice department. stack the courts with your puppets, stop voting rights, attack and weaken the media so your propaganda is the only source, assure that the wealthy are on your side, divide the citizens into hate groups.
2
I an a retired Army officer and think Michael Flynn is a disgrace. When he cozied up to an adversary, cast his lot with a treasonous presidential candidate and then led those disgusting chants to lock up a political opponent he dishonored the Constitution, the Army and all of the fine Soldiers he served with during his career. Shame on him, shame.
10
This article says exactly nothing regarding what "cooperation" General Flynn participated in. It just seems to be a hopeful screed with an undertone of Trump hate. It was not illegal, nor unusual for an incoming National Security Advisor, AFTER THE ELECTION, to speak with the former Russian ambassador. The "crime" was "lying" to the FBI regarding the timing of the contact. Nothing but a procedural and technical crime. Not serious. Totally inconsequential.
2
@L Haines
Your words:
"Nothing but a procedural and technical crime. Not serious. Totally inconsequential."
At first I thought you were being facetious, but now I see you're dead serious.
So, if Michael Flynn did nothing illegal and this is all about "Trump hate," then why did Flynn sit for 19 interviews with Mr. Mueller’s prosecutors, assisting in several investigations, including the special counsel’s inquiry?
That's quite a few interviews for someone who simply committed "a procedural and technical crime."
5
@L Haines
Your words: "Nothing but a procedural and technical crime. Not serious. Totally inconsequential."
At first I thought you were being facetious, but now I see you're dead serious.
So, if Michael Flynn did nothing illegal and this is all about "Trump hate," then why did Flynn sit for 19 interviews with Mr. Mueller’s prosecutors, assisting in several investigations, including the special counsel’s inquiry?
19 interviews!!! That's quite a lot for someone who simply committed "a procedural and technical crime."
Until Trump was inaugurated, and until Flynn was formally installed as NSA, they are PRIVATE CITIZENS. It is illegal for a PRIVATE CITIZEN to meddle in our foreign policy, especially when they are undercutting the sitting President and then lying about it.
Not sure what’s tricky here.
4
"Perhaps (Flynn) is motivated by a hope for leniency, perhaps by fidelity to the institutions he spent much of his lifetime serving. One day we may know."
We already know: Flynn's own son is also implicated in his Turkish dealings. What better leverage could the Special Counsel have?
3
My thoughts are not of any count.
A crime has been committed. These white collar criminals all know that they are not doing time. The prep school exclusive class never does time. Just review the fraud of the auto bailout, the wars of these last several years, the murders of Martin, Jack, Bobby, the trade towers. The Carlysle Foundation principals looks like an international perp parade. Henry Kissinger is a celebrity. Child poverty is highest in BC,Canada. If injustice were water we would have the potential for survival. Standing Rock is us, We are here....we must make our way with each other to find belonging.
As a rural physician there were several months I didn't take a paycheck so I could pay my employees. I took care of the sick poor old in a medicare/medicaid system that would not pay me. The private insurance white people also would not pay. (sue us, see what happens to you). I had to leave the country
Here we have a privileged white guy, a trained murderer who is likely to skate on a major crime. If he were brown he wouldn't have made it to the jailhouse the first time for a dime bag of reefer.
Kindness must be our path forward. Who will stop the destruction of our world by white entitlement. I am white...very white.
Colin
1
Flynn pled to a low level charge and was never at risk for a long prison sentence as a result of the plea. But, it seems he did commit several very serious felonies having to do with his work on behalf of Turkey. He did not plead to those crimes. So far there has been no indication that he can tie Trump himself to collusion with the Russian government or the obstruction accusation. Maybe Mueller has a surprise for Mr. Trump, but it could not have been under wraps all this time. It is seems more likely that Flynn has nothing on
Trump himself. But, still, one has to wonder what were those 19 interviews about.
The DISGRACED so-called general Flynn should:
1. Serve time in prison
2. Be demoted to E1
3. Forfeit all pay and benefits
4. Have his Discharge changed to DISHONORABLE
Just my 2 cents.
5
The 'assistance' Flynn provided was for a criminal probe unrelated to the Special Counsel's task... He was guilty of a process crime and there has been still zero substance to the conspiracy theory created by Clinton and the DNC. A conspiracy mind you, that was used to sic national security agencies on US citizens. Looking forward to the left waking up to this fact when Trump starts using spy agencies to surveil his political opponents a la the Obama admin.
Is it just me, or does this treatment of Mr. Flynn seem a little too glowing...and convenient?
3
Trump's biggest problem is Trump. Nothing to date, implicates Trump in any of what is being investigated. Yet, he continues to claim that Mueller is after him. Why? It could be Trump's innate paranoia or knowledge that he is at least complicit.
Like Nixon, Trump could not bring himself to announce to the world: "Something bad happened and I want to get to the bottom of it and have the guilty punished." That action would give the impression of innocence. The finger pointing, nasty tweets, castigation of the press,... all scream: "I'm guilty but don't want to be punished."
Unfortunately, in my opinion, Trump never matured beyond adolescence. He continues to act like the self-centered schoolyard bully who will never own-up to his actions.
Did Trump participate in the Russian disinformation campaign? I don't know. Yet, something in Trump's behavior says he did something that was illegal and that something can, and may well, bring down The Trump Organization as well as his presidency. My guess is that when the dust settles, we are all going to be surprised and left shaking our heads at the stupidity behind it.
If Flynn were of color, i.e., Black, Mexican, Asian, etc., at this point he would be on death row awaiting execution as a traitor. Therefore, the fate of Flynn ought to be a public request of no jail time and a judge who throws this traitor under any moving bus. Someone needs to make an example of this guy so that this doesn't happen again.
3
There is no doubt a big advantage to throwing back one fish in order to catch either a netful of others, or a giant one. Before we condemn Mueller's decision to cut a deal of leniency with Flynn, let's have some faith in his judgment that will probably benefit a greater good. I am hoping this means the net is going to haul in the big fish, our corrupt and mendacious president.
3
I feel abt Flynn the way Trump feels abt Cohen: no jail time?
This is the guy who used his position to sell gulen - for money in his pocket - to erdogan, with meanwhile, for trump, a tower/mall in Istanbul. This is the guy who used his position to traduce his country to the Russians - for starters, even before taking office, thru undermining the Administration's sanctions. This is the guy who, with his lunatic son, was working actively to "lock her up". This is the guy whose vaunted military service was so out of control (before Fake News there was Flynn Facts) that he was fired by the previous Administration.
However much he's been of assistance to the Special Counsel, he must serve time in jail--& something more than 2 weeks, too.
3
Mueller sends a powerful message by allowing Flynn to avoid more jail time: It neutralizes trump's offer of a pardon.
trump: "If you go to prison for me, I'll bail you out real quick, nKay?"
Mueller: "If you tell the truth, you won't do more time, nor be subject to the whims of a narcissistic bully who has the loyalty of a cockroach."
3
It's not clear to most people how Flynn served his country "honorably" and is due leniency because of that. But if his cooperation is the key to ridding us of the most corrupt group to ever walk the halls of Congress and the White House then I say so be it.
Even without jail time he has made his own life a living hell for whatever time he has left on this earth.
The article describes the issue Flynn is being charged with as..."the former national security adviser lied to F.B.I. agents about his contacts during the transition with the former Russian ambassador. Mr. Flynn and the ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, discussed ways to undercut Obama administration policy in the Middle East and toward Russia."
That description is very slanted.
In laymans terms, Flynn discussed the sanctions Obama had recently put on Russia, requesting that Russia not retaliate, as when Trump got in, things would be different. Trump wanted a better relationship with Russia. Of course that was before everything hit the fan as the Dems and the liberal media expanded the Russia collusion issue.
In actual layman’s terms, Flynn broke the law when he acted to undercut President Obama’s clear foreign policy, then broke it again when he repeatedly lied to the FBI about doing so.
Sprinkle as many little MSM jimmies on reality as you like.
2
Flynn is a turncoat who needs to be made to pay in some way for his nefarious dealings in the 2016 election. If not prison time, at least a very hefty fine and a long probation. It will be an injustice to this country and especially to all the service members past and present who have given their lives, sacrificed their time and families and who have shown their true and abiding love and respect for the values and decency we all aspire to.
4
It is vital to recall that the significant issue raised when a person has lied to credentialing officials and to law enforcement is that an unsavory entity can hold the lies over the liar's head in the same manner as blackmail.
Michael Flynn's weak spot has been his son -- and that mighty lever was of potential use to our enemies, and its utility was proved by Flynn flipping with the good guys doing the arm twisting.
4
Why isn't Trump badmouthing Flynn for flipping?
All the guilty pleas and further investigations into this White House stem from the cooperation with Mueller. Yet Trump is quiet regarding Flynn.
Flynn's military experience holds him to a higher standard but yet he is not going to prison? And then Cohen cooperates and will more than likely serve time.
Flynn's cooperation must be a really "sweet" tell all.
I say "lock him up". He seems to have wanted Clinton's minor involvement a lock up situation and here he sits, facing little or no prison time.
4
The most important disclosure is probably the fact that Flynn has been sincerely contributed to at least three criminal investigations. Was there a criminal investigation into Trump and his children?
1
As a citizen and total lay person I am shocked how General Flynn will be let off. On the face of it - in well revealed detail in the media - he essentially committed treason. I think he should be so charged.
3
Mr. Flynn should not be able to profit from his cooperation with the Special Counsel by writing a book after his abhorrent abuse of power.
3
What made Michael Flynn, a three-star general with 30 plus years of service to his country, become a criminal? Perhaps it was his own sense of grievance over perceived poor treatment: he was fired from his post as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency by President Obama who didn’t like the way Flynn was running things. So, was switching to Trump and yelling “lock her up” some kind of weird revenge against Obama and Clinton?Flynn also took on the role of foreign lobbyist for Turkey and perhaps Russia and Saudi Srabia; were these jobs just about making money? We may never know the precise motivations; if he writes a tell-all book, we will certainly view any attempt to explain his actions with well-deserved skepticism. Until Mueller releases a full report on everything and everyone tied to the Russian investigation, we can only guess about Flynn.
1
@JHC Wynnewood PA
He was fired because he is nuts and crazy and cuckoo not because of "how he was running things".
Yes he probably did have a sense of grievance when he went to work for El Trumpo but he was already chummy with Putin and Erdogan before that.
2
As much as I despise Flynn and his horrid cries to "Lock her up!", I'll go with what Mueller recommends. Now is not the time to open up controversy about Mueller's decisions. He needs our confidence and support. Whatever Mueller says is okay with me.
3
@JB JB -- if he says there was no collusion with Russia and that Trump did not obstruct justice -- are you OK with that? Be prepared.
It is my hope that the judge acknowledges Flynn’s cooperation and the benefit it confers to the country, and sentences him to a symbolic one day in jail while expressly rebuking and admonishing him for the damage his crimes caused, as well as his malignant invocation of the legal system, specifically his chanting “Lock her up”.
4
Flynn supposedly lied about communicating with Russia. I am OK with letting him slide on that.
But there was/is another slimy incident. Use DuckDuckGo on "flynn turkey bribe" for vivid descriptions of international swamp creatures. That deserves some real punishment.
2
Unless this guy has given up El Trumpo himself for treason I don't see how his conspiring with Turkey to render a legal US resident back to Turkey sans any legal proceeding or evidence and his dealings with Putin and the Russian ambassador (things he did as a former US General Officer who knew exactly what it meant to be doing what he was doing.) can get him less than 10 years regardless of how cooperative he has been AFTER being caught.
Maybe if he had had a moment of conscience and turned himself in I could see something like 3-5 years but he did not. And what about the crazy conspiracy theories he and his son promote as truth?
This guy is dangerous and has irrational beliefs that things which are not real are taking place. He should not be getting lauded for doing what he has done AFTER being caught. Maybe that lauding is my take on how this sentencing recommendation is being reported? There sure seems to be a missing aspect of just how criminal and shameful Mr Flynn is. He should not be coming across as a friend to the US people as he was pretty much a traitor to us for money not ideals.
Is anyone looking into demoting him for pension purposes? This guy should not be allowed to do well based on work he did when corrupt on the taxpayer dime after this plea deal. He was going to help render a legal US resident to his death!
5
Without knowing the details of what Mr. Flynn served up to Mr. Mueller, I can't offer an opinion of Mueller's shocking largesse to Flynn. Flynn's gifts to the Mueller investigation must have been incredibly valuable, but whenever I see the video of Flynn joining in the "lock her up" chant with childish gusto, I can't help but wish for HIS incarceration. But I'll be patient, as we all must be, awaiting Mueller's revelations.
3
Flynn has been given a lot. It sounds like he has probably earned it. I hope that proves to be true.
2
It's also possible that Mueller realized that 1) Flynn's lying to the FBI wasn't about a crime and 2) that Flynn had nothing substantive to say about collusion although he may have coughed up everything he knew and therefore decided to be lenient.
2
@Ralphie
Yes I suppose anything is possible. Probability would however seem to point in the other direction.
3
@John No it is highly unlikely that Mueller would be lenient. But that doesn't mean Flynn has anything related to Trump colluding with Russia -- a great liberal fantasy.
@Ralphie, yes, people lie to the FBI all the time about stuff that wasn't a crime. Eye roll.
Please remember that Flynn pled guilty. I know this is hard for trump supporters, but try, try to imagine if HRC was going through all this; would you try THIS HARD to excuse her administratin? Why do you twist and turn so hard to NOT see the criminal thread running through the Russia connection?
Trump 2015: "We're all over Russia, doing amazing things that only rich people can do, bigly!"
Trump 2017: "Russia? Never heard of it. We have zero interest in Russia! But they're our friends as long as they hack the Dems! I mean, no one talked to Russians about anything but adopting sweet blonde little babies!"
Then, when Flynn, Stone, Sessions, trump jr, Ivanka, Jarrod, Mattis etc were ALL found to be lying about actual meetings with Russians, and the NRA was infiltrated, and trump/Putin secret meetings, NO Americans invited, and on and on and on.
Now you folks come around and say "Well, it's possible that Mueller was lenient because there was nothing......."
Right.
2
I'd like to know when his come to Jesus moment came or will I have to wait for his book at the cut rate bookstore?
1
Dear Friends: Get this one straight. His baby plea had nothing to do with Trump. He used his office to grab cash. He pleaded so wifey and sonny wouldn't go to jail.
1
How about a loud and sincere apology to Hillary Clinton from Flynn? And now that we know who that he was a crook,how about lock him up for good measure?
10
“Mr. Kushner, there’s someone in the line from a grand jury from something called the SCO. He said you would know what it was about. Should I put him through?”
4
Without knowledge of Mueller's next steps, I say Flynn should be locked up for the rest of his life. Flynn, a life long government employee, enjoying huge taxpayer paid benefits for the remainder of his life, turns out to be a traitor to our country. Enough said !
5
The practice of flipping, which you laud, is an abhorrent practice that distorts justice by incenting miscreants to lie by bribing them with leniency. You and the prosecutors should be ashamed.
5
@No
Is this some sort of joke? It's the key mechanism by which most major criminal enterprises are unraveled.
11
So Flynn is a miscreant and Trump is just an innocent guy trying to be a good President? Climate deniers...treasury raiders...Collusion... vote suppressing...etc. The question isn’t are they guilty. They are just slick with Trump as the biggest film flam artist of them all. They are taking apart the country and dividing up the spoils. We will be lucky to get out of this without guns in the street.
All of them have much to be ashamed of. They need to be stopped before it’s too late.
2
Like so many others in Trump's circle, Flynn appears to be a traitor to our country and planet. He is no hero and the damage he has inflicted upon the world that my young son and his generation will have to endure is beyond redemption.
The only satisfactory outcome of this whole thing is Trump and his minions (including the ones with the same blood as him) spending the rest of their days penniless and repaying society for their vile deeds.
I never imagined that the GOP could put forth someone so repugnant that I would find myself reflecting fondly upon the leadership of the Bush family.
7
Lock HER up, not me! He lied and confessed. For this he will be rewarded with not getting locked up. How traitorous and harmful do you have to be to get locked up?
7
I'm fairly sure there was a conversation between Trump and Flynn that went something like "Don't worry about Comey. I'll take care of him" That obstruction will be the least of Donald's problems. I, for one, can't wait for that testimony in the HoR and the Senate
3
“If other players, such as Paul Manafort and George Papadopoulos, have worked only grudgingly with the special counsel, and some, like Roger Stone, are still holding out, we now know, thanks to a sentencing recommendation that the office filed late on Tuesday in federal court, that Mr. Flynn provided “substantial assistance” to federal investigators working to unravel the Russia mystery.”
Comma bonanza!! I realize we are o lot supposed to talk about content here, but jeez, the medium is also the message. How ‘bout a couple of full stops, dear editorial board?!
1
"If I did a 10th of what she did, I would be in jail today..."
Mr Flynn - National Republican Convention
4
No matter to what degree Michael Flynn spilled his guts to Special Counsel, Robert Mueller, I'll always retain one indelible image of the retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General. And that is of a beady-eyed, angry rabble rouser at the RNC going on a rant about Hilary Clinton:
(1) "We do not need a reckless President who believes she is above the law." (start :17 second mark on YouTube link below);
(2) "Lock her up." (start :35 second mark);
(3) "If I did a tenth of what she did, I would be in jail today." (start 2:02 mark)
So, Michael Flynn, now we know the truth. YOU were the one above the law. And it was YOU who should have been locked up. And the only reason YOU may avoid jail time is that you've been singing like a canary to the Special Prosecutor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx94428MYcc
13
Wow....
Mueller please just give us the goods already
We know treason was committed with Russian help against our nations citizens using our electoral process aided and abetted by our two party system and
Encouraged by candidates running for office desperate for election to
Take advantage of all the graft top down.
1
@Dady
I agree with you three have been charged with process crimes
*van der Zaawam (30 days)
*Popodopulous (14 days)
*Flynn
*Manafort
*Cohen
*Corsi
Where is collusion or obstruction?
@rds Obama administration is clean???
*IRS, Lerner admitted it
*Fast and Furious.Holder contempt of Congress
*NSA spying on Americans
*Paying for Uranium hostages
*The big one. HRCs emails (still looking for 30,000)
I'm afraid each it seems all administrations have them.
Sad!
2
@Frank Leibold "*IRS, Lerner admitted it" ... Are you saying that temporarily withholding tax free status from organizations with "Tea Party" in their name was "politically" motivated? If so, you miss the irony in that organizations formed for "political" reasons are not eligible for tax free status. It follows that if you think that the IRS investigation was "politically" motivated, than you must also believe that organizations with "Tea Party" were formed for political reasons, and therefore the IRS was perfectly correct in their actions. Sorry, but as soon as you say it was politically motivated you lose; there is no way you can win that one.
4
Ah...
Here we go again...
Conflating administrations or others’ conduct to defuse their wrong doings.
How about we deal with each issue/individual independently rather than “what aboutism”...
2
We must decide: Is Flynn a good witch or a bad witch? Here Mr. Flynn, take the broom with you! Hey, I just watched the movie.
1
Another example of how corrupt the system is. He doesn't deserve squat. He won the race to the prosecutor's door, that's all. He should have plead without a deal. Then he would have gotten my respect.
5
If I in my stupidity had undertaken one tenth of Flynn's criminal activity, you can bet I'd never see the light of day again. This is what eats at me: any jail time these white collar criminals serve will be negligible, while their treason rots the heart of our precious democracy.
12
The dead bodies are finally floating to the surface, in this case, Flynn’s dubious assistance on behalf of the Turkish regime (read Erdogan) against the Gülenists.
Again, the NYT would do itself and it’s readership a huge favor to explain that Erdogan and Gülen are not actual enemies as Erdogan would have the world believe, but rather share a common, troubled history.
This is a big story that most in Turkey and the region already know. The U.S. (particularly the residents of Pennsylvania) should know that they have a key Turkish asset in their midst.
3
With all respect to Mr. Mueller, anyone debased enough to work in Trump's administration and then be summarily fired for blatant Trumpy-pumpy deserves zero "glowing praise" from any quarter, let alone from the special counsel.
5
Mueller could still have goods on Flynn that were not even in this court statement.
3
If Flynn and Cohen get light sentences and Manafort receives a heavy sentence followed in a short time by a presidential pardon its a win win for all and a big payday for the lawyers involved. It sets precedent for the many others still to be questioned further. Seems to me the American public is the loser.
2
It hurts that Flynn may not be locked up. I understand why he may not do jail time, but it HURTS. Please, at least, a public apology to Hillary Clinton (and all of us who believe that no one is above the rule of law) for that deplorable chanting. And maybe house arrest with an ankle bracelet for a couple of months? Please?
7
I have been saying since day one (literally since just after the inauguration when all of this broke with the special counsel investigation) that Flynn would be the key to bringing down this administration and Presidency.
We do not know all of the particulars and it all has to play out over the next bit of time (so much was redacted), but this whole issue is not about money. (although it has a byproduct of being so)
It is about power, who achieves, who wields and what ''favors'' (or quid pro quo) was done to amass any of it.
That is not called bribery, or Kompremat, but treason.
1
Let's not sing too many praises for Flynn.
He led the chant "Lock Her Up".
Jailing political opponents is one of the hallmarks of tyrannical governments. Flynn was at the forefront. Yuck.
I'm glad he is telling the truth now, but let's not think he is a saint.
6
Many believe and want Flynn to serve a prison term. I disagree, his cooperation with the Russian Investigation was a patriotic choice. Flynn, won’t recover his reputation, he will be a pariah!
I trust that Special Counsel Mueller deems Flynn’s cooperation valuable. Donald should be scared, very scared! I suggest that Donald resign and go live in Russia!
Thank you, Michael Flynn....YOU owe Mrs. Clinton’s an apology!
4
But, is it too late to change his military discharge status to dishonorable?
5
There are always legal professionals with informed commentary on these posts. Curious about Trump & Trumpkins exposure to civil actions
1
Flynn is a former general who spend a career devoted to serving his country. Even if he got mixed up in shenanigans way over his head, at some level he probably does believe in sacrifice on behalf of our nation's ideals. Manafort, not so much. Same goes for Cohen.
1
Flynn was not only the instigator of the “lock her up” chants but simultaneously claimed a moral high ground. The shameless behavior of a hypocrite. Now he is being considered for a light sentence while the “lock her up chant” will continue to reverberate for years to come.
2
It's my speculation that Flynn rolled over so fully and quickly, in order to save his son from any prosecution.
3
This is becoming quite interesting and I have no doubt there is much more to come. Mueller and his team of experts have been, and are very careful not to reveal their hand. It does appear, however, that one of Trump's "witches" gave it all up to the Special Prosecutor. [cackle, cackle]
3
"Special assistance" means dumping reams of dirt Flynn had on Obama, Brennan and Clinton, which he had accumulated as Director of Defense Intelligence Agency for 2012-2014.
The Gen. knew Trump for a cup of coffee.
For the past 18 months I have been wondering why Flynn was still drawing his military pension and why he wasn't being tried for treason. Hopefully, I will finally learn the answers to those questions. So far, it appears that the motivation for his behavior was lusting after the money of dictators and animus toward Clinton and Obama. Now, when facing prison, he discovers a streak of loyalty to his country? Frankly, I find Michael Cohen a more appealing character.
6
I find it difficult to reconcile his chanting "Lock her up" (referring to Secretary Clinton and her supposed crime) to his receiving a "Get out of jail card" when he has pleaded guilty to a federal crime.
5
If special prosecutor Mueller found Mr. Flynn cooperative and useful in reeling in bigger fish, then Mr. Mueller is right to recommend no prison sentence for Flynn lying to the US Congress and FBI. However, just for the sake of poetic justice, Mr. Mueller should recommend putting Mr. Flynn behind bars for the number of hours equal to the times he shouted “Lock her up” at the Republican Convention.
2
Flynn was known to be working with the Turkish government attempting to extradite a legal US resident, Fethullah Gulen, accused to be behind the coup in 2016.
Without any due process, he was working to hand over a U.S. resident to what certainly would amount to a death sentence. With the Jamal Khashoggi incident so fresh in our minds, this detail of Flynn's activities needs to be strongly considered by any judge, and by the public at large.
4
Here is the message sent by the FBI.
"All of you on the Trump team listen up. It is important that we do a thorough job of investigating possible crimes committed by the President, including trason. If you took part in such crimes or have first hand knowledge of such crimes and report them to the FBI we will take such positive action on your part into consideration when it comes time to recomend how you should be punished.
It is paramount that a president committing such crimes be caught and severely punished."
2
Is he still subject to the UCMJ? If so I suggest no jail time for this. A courts martial at least for conduct unbecoming seems appropriate BT1 USN ret
4
I suspect Flynn will get a least a day in prison, perhaps more, which will serve as an apt demonstration of how much the tables turned on the man who urged Republicans to ‘Lock her up.’
2
This is an invitation to the holdouts - Manafort, Stone et al - to sneak into the Mueller tent, in which they will be treated as 'white collar' crims instead of the thugs they are. Please, heed the invitation guys - and girls. We will all sleep better if you do.
For no jail time, Flynn had better be delivering concrete evidence of crimes from the top down. I consider, from what I have read and watched about this man, that he, along with Manafort and Cohen, deserves to go to jail. His testimony needs to be solid and used to charge and convict those in this administration, campaign, and family who deserve it. I'll be watching closely Mr. Mueller to see just how this plays out.
6
To the extent that anyone will remember this guy at all, it will be because of the spasming and apoplexy into which he lapsed as he screamed "Lock Her Up!" during the 2016 primaries. It was one of the most repugnant things I'd ever seen, and the fact that he looks like he just fell off a turnip truck does not help. Poor thing. He's stuck being him.
2
Here's another Trump contradiction: Trump is for torture by thinks "flipping" should be illegal. See, the thing is, the entire point of torture is to get a person to flip!
3
So all of Muller case rests on couple of Rats?
1
The only way I will ever be on board with Flynn getting away with what he did is when I see him publicly acknowledge the malicious folly of his indecent chant-leading at the republican national convention. And when I witness him apologize to Ms. Clinton for abusing her name, and to trump followers for misleading them. Then he needs to apologize to the USA for his criminal acts against it. Without these public acts of remorse and admission, I say the swamp remains polluted with Flynn.
137
As career military, this man betrayed his country. He is a traitor. Any one enlisted service member would be court marshaled, jailed, done. So he helped Mueller out. That never erases his enabling of Russia's attack on our country. He is a BIG fish. We need to stop waiting to get Trump and Trump alone. The magnitude of criminal behavior across all these charges and pleas is being washed out with every skimpy sentencing end game. Criminal justice and consequences apply here, exhaustively.
78
@CO Gal: I would disagree with you if the consequence of Flynn's cooperation is that Donald Trump from further harming National Security. We have a very serious threat to our country if a hostile country has leverage over our President. Additionally, Donald Trump threatens our justice system, our economy, our climate and more. Besides Trump, there are others who may be held accountable that so far have not been - Jared and Ivanka, Don Jr. and other members of the administration.
I get that Flynn deserves prison time. But if he made it possible to stop Donald Trump and the administration from further harm to our democracy and to our national security, then it is worth it to give him the pass on prison. His reputation will never recover.
4
@CO Gal agree. My husband is a USAFA graduate and career Army + reserves. Flynn needs to be imprisoned in an orange jumpsuit for some period of time, court determined. I also echo Matt Mendenhall, who recommends Flynn publicly acknowledge the malicious nature and folly his 'lock her up' chants at the R National Convention, public apology to Hillary Clinton. May I add amends as recommended by ten step programs.
8
@CO Gal I should have read your comment before posting my thoughts! We are on the same page!
2
The light between this observation of what is transpiring on the Flynn plea and that of, say, journals on the other side of the political centers could not be wider. Mueller has recommended a sentence for Flynn of 24 days. Hardly the stuff of mass conspiracy or treason. Flynn himself has said repeatedly that the only reason he chose not to fight the charges were that Mueller was bankrupting him with legal costs and threatening to do the same to his son. This is justice? Will be extremely interesting to see what the judge ultimately even sentences Flynn to.
Ironic how so many of the ones chanting "Lock her up!", despite having no evidence that "she" had commited any crime, are now facing serious prison time.
Lots of folks nowadays are comparing Nixon and Trump. I'd like some comparisons of how many of Nixon's and Trump's advisors and appointees are convicted felons.
1
People who "serve" at the highest levels of government and industry should set the standard for honesty, integrity, and abiding by the rule of law, and when they fail they betray the nation and all that America stands for and therefore their punish MUST be harsh.
I hope Mueller has been meticulous in checking out everything Flynn has told him. Why would anyone believe anything
Flynn has to say otherwise ?
1
My sense is that zero jail time is a very inadequate sentence for the man who led the chants iof "lock her up" with vituperative force at the convention. We're talking about JAILING your political opponent.
2
But not the prosecution of Trump.
"substantial assistance" means Flynn happily dumping reams of dirt on Obama, Brennan and Clinton, which he'd accumulated 2012-2014 as DDIA. Flynn didn't like these people or their policies.
Flynn had known Trump for a cup of coffee and stridently agreed with his policies, including locking up Hillary.
Remember, Mueller's charge was to investigate all crimes he'd run into. Well, all Flynn had to do was tip Mueller off to the precious administration's crimes and Mueller was then duty bound to pursue them.
Flynn, of course, did just that.
Would be fantastic if Flynn - via his Russian connections obtained a copy of the infamous reputed Yellow Shower videotape. We can only hope. Perhaps the clearest evidence of our national opinion of Trumputin is that we can actually envisage the reputed Yellow Shower incident taking place - a command performance orchestrated at his request by Vlad. Is the reputed incident a myth ?? Just cannot convince myself that it is. A sad commentary on the vile character that Trump presents to the world.
1
General Flynn >> Trump's impeachment: Here is a comment I wrote about 18 months ago. Looks like it wasn't far off: "Flynn is/was such a loose cannon that it's not at all improbable that he was doing "coordination" chats with Russians during the campaign. So, was he doing this with Trump's knowledge? I would have to guess Yes. He already let the cat out of the bag when he said he would be the "scapegoat" in the affair. Are we just a step away from the beans being spilled? Yates testimony on what's known about Flynn. Flynn's facing jail time. Flynn telling on Trump. Trump denying. More people including Russians come forward. Trump caught lying. Trump impeached."
Just listening to Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters on a cable news network. His description of Lt. General Mike Flynn: A brilliant soldier and leader. So then, as The New York Times reported on May 18, 2018, 'that a longtime FBI/CIA informant had met Flynn at an intelligence seminar in Britain six months earlier and became alarmed by Flynn's closeness to a Russian woman there; this concern prompted another individual to alert American authorities that Flynn may have been compromised by Russian intelligence.' So the question is, why? He had to know the abilities of U.S. and allied intelligence. Doesn't make sense.
Flynn is sort of like the modern day Benedict Arnold. After a lifetime of great public service in the military like Benedict Arnold, he betrayed his country in spirit and probable legal deed.
If Mueller is lobbying to get this guy out of jail, Flynn had better given him ammo to send Trump behind bars for life.
3
Yay! With any luck Mr. Mueller will force Trump to pull a Nixon. A light sentence for Flynn? By all means. For those for whom the unbearable lightness of sentence is too much, consider the horizon after Trump. Okay, there’s Pence. But maybe by 2020 enough Americans will have regained their senses that even the electoral college, America’s Dumbest Idea, will go Independent or Democrat.
The Editorial Board is being very unfair: Lieutenant General Michael Flynn is truly a great man and he should immediately be awarded Hero of the Russian Federation. Donald Trump can then give Hero of the Russian Federation to himself, Jared and Ivanka.
1
“Lock him up” will forever be branded with Flynn. His reputation is in tatters even after he’s co-operated with the SCO. Perhaps some day he will reflect and realize that participating with this administration was not worth it.
I hate to think Flynn will be able to keep his pension after betraying the people who fund it but there is some comfort in knowing that Trump and his cohort will have their infatuation with reality TV tested when they are featured on dozens of episodes of American Greed over the next few years.
1
When an incoming Administration is preparing to take office, those in the role of national security and other high positions have the duty to reach out to their counterparts in other countries, no matter which country. But in particular, countries who are our adversaries, like Russia. I don't believe that Mike Flynn did anything wrong. Why he supposedly "lied" to investigators when Justice Department officials like Peter Strock didn't think he lied, when James Comey didn't think he lied, but The Special Council Robert Mueller charged him with lying to investigators is beyond comprehension.
I know I will be excoriated on this comment string for my comments but the scuttlebutt is that Mueller and his attorneys threatened Flynn, his family (son in particular) and pretty much forced him to plead to lying about his talks with the Russia Ambassador. What was illegal about talking to the Russia Ambassador?
Sounds like Mueller wanted a scalp and he got one in a pretty dirty way.
I read what Flynn was suppose to have done. First he asked the Russian to hold off a U.N Resolution that would have affected Israel. Second he asked the Russian to not over react to sanctions imposed on them. No where is this is even the slightest hint that he was colluding with them to help Trump win an election. He was working for our interest. Why flynn gave another version, I don't know. But Mueller didn't care. What ever he could do, who ever he could threaten, he was willing to ruin anyone to destroy Trump. There is no evidence Trump colluded. He didn't need Russia. He had Clinton. Read Donna Brazile book or another book, Shattered. There is no way Flynn fits in the collusion accusation. Papadopulos is another of Mueller's great legal victories. He got 14 days. I wonder how many millions each one of those days cost taxpayers. As far as collusion with Russians go, how does Clinton get away with hiring an ex English spy to contact the Russians to dig up and sell them dirt on Trump. There is the absurd accusation that claim obstruction of justice when Trump asked Comey to go light on Flynn because he was a good guy. Did Trump ask Mueller to do that too? No jail time seems like pretty light. This has been a sham with only one purpose, to do wreak vengeance on Trump. a bombastic, self promoting reality show host for beating Clinton who had already been anointed. What they found out was that anointing is not the same thing as being elected
3
@Ron
Also, Flynn didn't even have these conversations with the Russians until he was on the transition team as incoming Security Advisor. And the two agents who interviewed Flynn testified to Congress that they didn't believe Flynn intentionally lied to them. The whole thing is an abomination from start to end. And I am talking about Mueller's pressure methods, NOT Flynn's actions.
2
The liberal commentariat is having such a high old time clucking and gloating about what it hopes (believes) the Mueller Report will contain, it's sure to be a letdown when it finally appears.
1
So, Flynn cooperates and is very helpful. He still committed a crime, quite possibly treason. No jail time is a huge deal. But, I find myself hoping for some punishment for his crimes. Perhaps, a perp walk of shame, a dishonorable discharge from the military, and he loses his pension. After all, he did help land trump in the White House, unleashing our current American nightmare.
72
@Peter May @Matt Mendenhall has given us the answer. One point of punishment is a public statement of his complicity and a plea for forgiveness from Ms. Clinton and the Americans he misled.
2
@Peter May Do you know what Flynn's crime was? What he pleaded guilty to? Then tell me if that is possibly treasonous. He was convicted by Mueller of getting a date wrong of a perfectly legal conversation with a Russian official. Do you understand? Talking with the official was perfectly legal; he told the FBI the wrong date of the conversation. The FBI and Comey did not believe that he lied intentionally but Mueller grabbed that error and used it to squeeze Flynn to get info. Mueller bankrupted him and his family, ruined his reputation and threatened to go after his son. To stop the madness, Flynn had no choice but to plead guilty to save his family. Get in? Mueller was going after Flynn's family. You have no problem with that?
So, what was treasonous about that, Peter? So you hate Trump but to blame General Flynn who worked for Trump for 24 days is ridiculous. In my view, it was a political hit job through and through and for that, Mueller, in my opinion is one of the most cruel and despicable individuals walking today. To ruin a person's life and livelihood for purely political reasons is disgusting. But remember what goes around, comes around. Mueller and his crew will one day pay the price for their dirty tricks.
The latest filing on Flynn reveals that there are probably three separate criminal investigations continuing on and closing in on Trump and his nefarious, crooked and disgraceful band of acolytes. It also makes manifest the slogan, "The mills of the Gods grind exceedingly slow but exceedingly fine." And we are only at the end of the third quarter of this deadly game.
37
@Stewart Rein I believe the saying is slightly different, not polytheistic at all. We wrote essays on it in 10th grade English in public school back in 1960s. "The wheels of God grind slow but they grind
exceeding fine."
1
I have learned from watching the Trump administration in action, how undervalued our institutions are. Trump for all intents and purposes entered the office as if he was running his real estate business---in other words, you get things done through shady financial dealings, employing shady fixers and lawyers, and shady governmental connections. What has confounded Trump is he keeps running into men and woman and institutions that play by the rules---the constitution---and tradition. As much as attempts to undermine these rules and traditions, they so far have held firm against these more than transparent attempts to turn this country into a banana republic. But rough waters are ahead--if Trump's family or money becomes a target, he will start swinging for the fascists fences.
58
Flynn is somewhat reminiscent of Howard Dean who served under Nixon. Though Flynn's transgressions appear to be much graver than those of Mr. Dean at least he had the sense to come clean and cooperate. Perhaps not out of some desire to act in an ethical manner but to save his own skin. At least his cooperation will slow the roll of this abomination of an administration.
Trump didn't drain existing swamp he installed his own. Unfortunately for DJT, most are bush league grifters who don't seem to have the bandwidth to successfully pull off their shenanigans.
1
With all due respect to Robert Mueller, let Michael Flynn go to prison for a 2 year sentence, reduced to 1 year with good behavior. Seems like a fair sentence to anyone in this country who is elevated to the status of general, who then rattles a cup to any foreign power willing to toss a coin in it.
1
Lock HIM up. His cooperation with the special counsel if fine. Let's hope it leads to impeachment of #1. But his crimes are egregious. Lock him up.
1
All these audacious lies and behaviors by Trump and his advisors, make a strong case for 'white entitlement', that got him elected and continues to drive his base to support him. Why would Trump Jr. think it is okay to conspire with a foreign government for dirt on an opposing candidate? Why would Flynn think it is okay to negotiate conditions of Senate approved sanctions with Russia? How could a candidate for president think it is okay to do deals with foreign powers and allow them to influence policy conducive to their countries and even ask for changes to our foreign policy, while personally enriching himself? It is because they have gotten away with no accountability, no consequences for their actions their whole lives, so they continue to think they can. This is 'white entitlement' and I am white but was raised to understand that with every privilege comes a responsibility, and with every blessing a corresponding command to be a blessing to others. These folks seem to believe they are entitled to all they can get any way they can get it and rules/laws don't apply to them, My hope and prayer is that justice will be served, for those who so readily demand law and order that oppresses others while they have got off with little or no repercussions.
1
With Flynn & Cohen clearly spilling their guts either out of fear, greed, or shame, we must believe that a "regime change" is near. And when that happens, the collateral damage will undoubtedly spread to other co-conspirator organizations and individuals.
To wherever Donald Trump flees, will he agree to accommodate all of his indicted and yet-to-be-indicted guests?
3
The best of a bunch of apples in a barrel of bad apples is still a bad apple. You cannot put an apple from that barrel back up on the tree.
1
It won't take very long before Trump starts tweeting about what an ungrateful flipper Ryan is and Fox News will begin to call out his patriotism, his parentage, and his allegiance to Hillary. Just watch as soon as Ryan testifies in the first trial; it won't take long.
I just don't want to see everyone getting no sentence or a slap on the wrist, only to have no real justice served when we get to the bigger fish.
1
@LauraNJ
The only big fish in this who did anything wrong is Manafort - completely unrelated to the Trump campaign.
You and your political compatriots are going to be truly disappointed when all is said and done. It isn't a crime to outsmart one's opponent to win a presidential election, no matter how much the left wishes that to be so.
Armchair dramaturges and connoisseurs of poetic justice like myself are suddenly having to deal with the probability that the guy who led the "Lock her up!" chants is not going to get locked up himself. It's a bitter disappointment for us, but we can take some consolation from the fact that all signs point to our favorite series being renewed for another season, despite the evident disdain of network bigwig Mitch McConnell, a killjoy if ever there was one.
In the opening episodes - let's be honest - very few viewers were excited about the General Flynn character. He was too much of a cardboard villain and most of us were relieved when he was shunted off to the sidelines.
This show's writers, however, always have a surprise in store for us, and this new unexpected development - that the general has been cooperating with the special prosecutor this whole time! - is exactly the sort of twist that keeps us tuned in, week after week.
Master storytellers know how to dole out information sparingly and tease out the suspense. It's no surprise that the show runners of this series have chosen someone after their own heart as their protagonist: a tight-lipped prosecutor who in his search for the truth plays his cards close to his vest.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if this mercilessly realistic show ultimately frustrates our desire for neat resolutions and poetic justice. All the same, it has something urgent to tell us about the world we find ourselves living in.
It is difficult to know whether this Mueller probe of the administration is like Starr's wandering Whitewater fiasco, or the Congressional investigation that brought down Nixon. I suspect it is the latter, and that soon our President or some advisors very close to him will be revealed as crooks and traitors. If that is the case, Mr. Flynn is a hero and should be recognized as such. Like John Dean, Mr. Flynn may be the key who opens the door to this nest of thieves for open, public view.
9
@Patrick Stevens I understand your point, but I can't agree. Flynn can never be a hero, and I'll be very disappointed if he walks away unscathed. If he didn't commit treason, he came very, very close.
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@Patrick Stevens
As a former Navy enlisted person, Flynn is not a hero by any means, and especially not according to our oath and our service commitments.
7
@Patrick Stevens Flynn is not a hero. John Dean served time, and Flynn should too.
6
As I recall, and I do, that movie with the same title does not end well for the witness or the party protected by lying. The prosecutor, played by Charles Laughton, after witnessing the shooting of the protected by the high-performing witness that he did not see anything!
The title tells possible future stories, at least to me!
I hoped when Trump won he would not include 4 people in his admin., including Flynn, b/c I thought something was wrong with him. I was not surprised at what he did. I am also not that interested in what happens with him, but I am disheartened by this "investigation." Sure, Manafort was a criminal. But, the judge was right. His case was all about Trump. We shouldn't have special prosecutors whose job is to get a president - and that is the way it appears. What have we gained for the millions spent on this? Perhaps just his opponents' satisfaction that maybe they will get Trump and his associates without proving anything towards "criminal" collusion. As with the Whitewater investigations, it just makes me sympathetic to the president, though, unlike Clinton, I didn't vote for him and never liked him. Yes, I know where I'm writing and most commenters feel quite the opposite. Some feel no punishment is sufficient just for being Trump. Of course, he brought a lot of hatred on himself, but the country is not deserving of what is going on (such as the insanity - not too dramatic a word - of the Kavanaugh hearing). If there is actually some proof of substantial criminal wrongdoing by Trump, I'll change my mind (although I also believe Clinton was given a pass), but I doubt it. I would not include the testimony of any amount of witnesses trading testimony against him in an effort to stay out of jail and I would laugh at a trumped up charge of obstruction for firing Comey.
It is overwhelmingly shocking that there are so many people in and around the Oval Office who appear to be involved with sordid crimes and abuses. These issues must be pursued to the end. I am 76 years old and would never have believed we would have such a scandal and betrayal in America.
3
More and more, I'm hearing apologists for the Right speak of "process crimes," as if lying to an investigator attempting to discover the truth about Russia's cyber-attack on our democracy is no big deal. I'm sorry, but when we allow people to lie to law enforcement without consequence, we will have lost all law and order and replaced it with simply "order."
9
@Terry Thomasthere is no proof offered by Muller of any interference - not some ham sandwich indictments but real proof.
1
In most rule of law countries, and in particular those other countries who also use the English law as the basis for their laws, there is no such thing as plea bargaining which is part and parcel of the way justice is practiced in the US. And this is because when the penalty prescribed for a particular crime is, say no less than 5 years and no longer than 15, this means that this is what the law requires. And so only the court has the authority to rule on how long a particular defendant will serve, and that will be based on the severity of his particular crime.
The federal system however took the concept of plea bargaining to the opposite extreme. And that is that prosecutors who are seeking information seek out charges against those who may have information helpful to them with. And those charges are not filed for law enforcement purposes but for the ulterior motive of trying to find out certain information. This is despite the fact that arresting and charging citizens because the government has an ulterior motive is not the way rule of law governments operate.
And this idea of arresting, charging and if need be filing additional charges, all for an ulterior motive is what the whole Mueller investigation has been about from the start. Without all of that he would have been left to deal with the subject of the investigation, which is whether Trump colluded with Russia, reached a conclusion and issued a report. Now however it seems that report will never be issued at all.
@Michael Stavsen. All part and parcel of the Lawyers Employment Act initiated through our legal codes by the lobbying arm of the ABA, I'm fairly certain...
Perhaps, like the character of Shakespeare’s Coriolanus that Flynn seems to have emulated throughout his life, his cooperation with the Mueller probe will redeem him at the end of the play. Like Coriolanus, Flynn saw himself as a warrior-patrician above the level of the civilian-common man. In the same role he railed against the rules placed on him by the government-politicians that in his misguided view were thwarting the plans of generals like him to win our foreign wars. He then grew petulant and peevish enough to actually go over to the other side and help the Russians get Donald Trump elected President. His actions, like those of Coriolanus, were stunning in their flagrant egoism. The very least he could do was to admit to his wrong-doings and tell everything that he, and others, did to aid the Russians in their collusion with the Trump campaign. He should get some sentence, even if it is mostly symbolic. He certainly should never be allowed to run for political office - if only that was a penalty that could be imposed. But just maybe a returning sense of some military ethical code will restrain him in the future, and he’ll be content to just write a book or something. Or maybe a play?
5
Great Irony here. Trump showed "loyalty" to Flynn. But Flynn betrayed Trump by cooperating with Mueller. What did Flynn tell Mueller such that the prosecutor would let Flynn off the hook? Trump's tweets have badmouthed Michael Cohen repeatedly for cooperating with Mueller. No tweets about Michael Flynn....
9
The sentencing recommendation makes it clear that Michael Flynn lied about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador in violation of the Logan Act. Interestingly, though, the original indictment against Flynn did not include his violation of the Logan Act.
My guess: based on the documents, communications and testimony provided by Flynn (and others), Mueller is saving the flagrant violation of the Logan Act for Donald and Jared.
Impeach and lock them up.
8
It would be nice to think that someone who spent much of their career in public service would regret their dalliances with tyrants and dictators and cooperate with Mueller in defense of democratic institutions and the rule of law. Maybe Flynn realized that the pursuit of wealth had led him to betray all he believed in. It might provide us to have some faith and trust in our leaders to know that some of them have a moral compass...
2
Looking at the timeline of Flynn's life, including decades of public service, his fall was both dramatic and shocking.
It makes one wonder if mental health issues played a part in his self-destruction.
2
What many are missing here, in criticizing the recommendation of no prison sentence, are at least these two points:
First, just because Flynn was charged with only one count doesn't mean that this is all Mr. Mueller can charge him with. What's going on here, I suspect, is a charge bargain. That is, Mueller could have charged Flynn with a number of other crimes and recommended a prison sentence, but because of the nature and extent of Flynn's "substantial cooperation", he is choosing not to, at this time. Should Flynn breach the plea agreement in any way, Mueller is free to go after him for any number of charges, just as with Manafort.
And second, by recommending no prison sentence, Mueller can dispense with the usual requirement of describing any number of egregious acts that would justify prison time. The more substantive information Mueller provides, the easier it is for Trump and his toadies to continue to witness tamper or otherwise obstruct the investigation.
Conclusion? Mueller gave up nothing here. He is very comfortably in the driver's seat. No doubt there will be more indictments. Mueller is playing the long game, wisely so. As much as I'd like the "vengeance" of seeing Flynn in an orange jumpsuit, I understand exactly why Mueller gave him the deal he did. This decision only strengthens Mueller's case against this corrupt president and his cronies.
8
I saw something somewhere that Flynn still has Turkey-related issues that could keep him in legal trouble.
@DB Cooper
Alternative conclusion? Mueller has nothing and has to bring this entire farce to a close. We'll know which one it is shortly.
Sorry, but a general deeply embedded in the intelligence community who lies about colluding with our greatest geopolitical rival doesn’t really deserve much sympathy despite his help to Mueller. Felony just isn’t sufficient to describe his betrayal of trust. If not jail time, at the very least a dishonorable discharge and forfeiture of retirement honors and perks.
14
One thing is understanding the distinct value of Flynn's cooperation in unravelling his crimes, and those of others that may include Trump himself; but the other is hard to swallow, no punishment for his dangerous moves abroad and at home while holding security secrets under his belt? This is not an innocent man by any stretch of imagination, hence, justice not served, an invitation for others to 'sin'...knowing there is easy resolution if confessing and cooperating in due time.
I'm concerned that Trump's stooge at the head of Justice, Matt Whittaker, has passed on an unredacted version of the Sentencing Memorandum to Trump and his lawyers, so they can see what Mueller has on him, which will lead to further obstruction of justice. What can we do to prevent this from happening or to find out if it already has happened?
9
Come January, haul Whittaker in front of Congress and ask him.
Just a call-out to the NYT for an exceptionally well-written editorial summing up the situation and putting everything in context.
Thank you for helping us understand the complexities of the latest twists and turns in Mueller's investigation.
3
What has trump so distressed (to put it mildly) about this stuff is that he knows there is no life for him after the presidency. Other than Giuliani, no lawyer will work for him. He's already gone through a wide assortment of mob lawyers, but no mob lawyer will have him now. The mob works in the dark. For a mob lawyer to work for trump would be like carrying a sign with big red flashing letters reading "investigate me." His comrades wouldn't like that. As for reputable lawyers, none will believe that a post-president trump will be any more savory than he has been for his whole previous life.
There is no doubt he's cozy with Putin. He has to be. Russian oligarchs are the only people he can turn to. trump isn't bankable now; who would invest in new trump-sponsored projects after all this? So his developer days are over. Sure, he can go on the lecture circuit. The NRA and ALEC and the National Prayer Breakfast and foreign dictators will have him, but that won't bring him the popular aggrandizement rush he lives on.
He is a man with something to hide, and he's trapped. Check the behaviour clues for corruption: he exhibits several of them. He is self-aware enough to be scared, but not moral enough to face the music. At least a few of his associates still have a shred of decency left.
6
This practice of prosecuting people purely for the sake of threatening them with heavy prison time so that they will provide information that would help the prosecution in another case is unique not only to the US, as opposed to other rule of law countries, even here in the US it is something only the federal government stoops to doing.
Another thing unique to the US among rule of law countries is the idea that if the prosecutor says somebody is above the law, then he is. And Flynn is a perfect example of this. He committed many crimes and yet the prosecution decided he shouldn't spend a day in prison, this despite the fact that the US Code requires prison time for those crimes. And this was because he helped the prosecutor in some unrelated case the prosecutor has the power to repay him by giving him a free pass on the many crimes he commited, meaning that the prosecutor has the power to decide whether somebody is above the law.
And yet another thing unique to the US federal government, as opposed to just about any other proper legal system is the way the prosecution effectively forces people to plead guilty. The government takes just about any crime and charges the defendant with 10-15 counts that if he would dare go to trial he could spend decades in prison, and so 97% of federal prosecutions result in plea deals.
And it is only with this system which is completely based on the most extreme abuse of power that allowed this investigation to go anywhere at all.
2
@Michael Stavsen
Surely "the most extreme abuse of power" - if we insist on talking in hyperboles - would relate to collusion with a foreign power to win office and/or the obstruction of an investigation into that possibility by the President himself. Those things, which are very much on the table - and always have been, since the special prosecutor was created to look into them - dwarf any "abuses" you imagine Mr. Mueller has committed.
It should be noted that General Flynn's compromised behavior and legal issues had raised eyebrows and red flags long before the special prosecutor was appointed. He was very much on the DOJ's radar even before Trump took office. It would be false, then, to argue that he was investigated/prosecuted "purely" to provide information in other cases.
I'm also supremely skeptical about the assertion that the United States is the only "rule of law" country where police and prosecutors pressure lower level defendants to supply incriminating information on those higher up on the food chain in exchange for some kind of leniency.
I suspect you mean that 97% of federal *convictions* - as opposed to "prosecutions" - end in plea deals.
We can agree that this is a source of legitimate concern. It's true that the government can mount an offensive that only a privleged few can defend against.
That's genuinely scary for poor and innocent people, but you are firm in your conviction that Flynn "committed many crimes," which undercuts your point.
8
As a retort, please refer to the Republican Guide on Bare-knuckle politics. As a Democrat, I support my Republican colleagues here. Or as Chris Farley said, "That's gonna leave a mark."
@Michael Stavsen, I’ve read your post thoroughly four times, and I can find fault in every sentence. You repeatedly make claims that are incorrect, unsupported and highly imaginative. Thanks for the entertainment!
Mr. Flynn’s “substantial assistance” better net the big fish, else the Mueller investigation will be made out to be a failed fishing expedition à la Whitewater. Unfortunately, in Washington, perception is reality and the Trump-Republican marketing machine will successfully justify this as a wasteful “witch-hunt” - that they have been brewing in the minds of the American people ever since Mueller took on this very complex task - if Mueller comes up short of catching the big one.
Mr. Flynn, who had a long and distinguished career in service of our nation until he fell into Trump’s orbit, cannot be given a pass for his “high crimes and misdemeanors” unless his cooperation has made a material breakthrough in what Mueller has been investigating. Trump, as a candidate and as president, has systematically undermined our democratic institutions. It’s imperative for the damage that he has caused be reversed and a successful outcome of Mueller’s investigation will go a long way in this regard.
18
@Jack Nargundkar "Mr. Flynn’s “substantial assistance” better net the big fish, else the Mueller investigation will be made out to be a failed fishing expedition à la Whitewater." Seriously? You think this is at the same level as Whitewater? You think Mueller's track record of indictments and convictions is on the level of Whitewater? You think the subject matter of this investigation is equivalent to Whitewater? God help this once-great Nation, we are deep into the Night Of Living Dolts.
1
If true, an interesting comment on one of the news shows tonight. Flynn might be free of a jail sentence for the one count on which he has been found guilty. However, we do not know if there are others. I would not be surprised if Mueller is willing to recommend no jail time for this crime, lying to the FBI. However, are there more possible charges against Flynn that Mueller is well aware of. In that case, Mueller still holds the winning hand.
6
"Mr. Flynn himself is the reason there is a special counsel. Had it not been for Mr. Trump’s desire to interfere with the F.B.I.’s pursuit of the man ..... Mr. Mueller would not have been appointed."
It is easy to miss the importance of this point. Trump interceded on behalf of Flynn although he must have been aware that he was putting himself in considerable legal jeopardy by doing so. From what we know about Trump so far, he is unlikely to have done so unless doing so could possibly avert even greater peril to himself. And now, apparently, Flynn has told Mueller what that greater peril to Trump is.
26
Again we are pelted with the refrains of how someone who rose up the ranks in the military is a great hero and man, noble and true. I could’ve sworn that promotions in the military were highly political and full of intrigue and back-stabbing. So why are we stunned when one of these folks turns out to be self-serving and crass and even unpatriotic? Our collective adoration of all things miltary speaks of a nation devoted to empire, not its Founders or great ideals.
47
@Dagwood
The U.S. has been a militaristic nation from the get go, not a new thing about empire. American Rev. War, War of 1812, Mexican War, Civil Wr, Indian Wars, Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korean War, Cold War, etc.
@Dagwood Unfortunately, very few Americans are aware of our violent history. The information is there, but lack of education defines us as a country now.
1
"...it is now 'appropriate and warranted,' in the special counsel’s view, that he receive a light sentence — perhaps no jail time at all."
A light sentence is fine, even if it is a day or two in jail, but no jail time is not appropriate.
Mr. Flynn is a retired United States Army Lieutenant General and was quite literally involved in defending the country. He should have known better than to be involved with the Turks and the Russians.
Yes, he probably did the right thing in the end by assisting the Special Counsel's investigation but he should not be allowed to get away scot-free.
12
@RK Flynn was not 'involved' with the Russians. He talked to the Russian ambassador during the transition.
When will they go after the Democrats we know for a fact were involved with Russians? They won't. This is a Stalinesque political investigation. Not a criminal one.
1
What concerns me most about the leniency on Flynn is that in my opinion people of his stature and authority need to be held to an even higher standard. A high ranking distinguished military officer as Flynn was should be a beacon and inspiration representing the best of America. His behavior throughout this ordeal does not live up to those standards.
23
@SSG It's only a sentencing recommendation, the judge will decide the punishment. Be patient.
9
Mueller specifically says they should be held to a higher standard as well. That’s how we know that Flynn spilled the beans on Trump in a very significant way.
2
@John Harper asking for little or no time is better than having a surprise little or no time, like 14 days and the judge ask why this is even in the courtroom.
While I understand Muller’s approach and the strategy, I worry that in the end, nobody in the current administration will be made accountable for the seriousness and depth of the crimes committed as part of 2016 Election interference, and the associated crimes. The most likely scenario is that
- Flynn won’t be punished at all.
- Trump will pardon any convicted crime coterie of his kids, kin and friends.
- Trump will hold on to the power as long as possible and may end up resigning or walk way by 2020, but with no legal punishment. Even if he is indicted, the next administration will pardon him (like the Nixon scenario)
- Both Rick gates and Cohen will probably end up doing nominal time for crimes unrelated to Russian meddling.
- At the end, Richard Pinedo, the least influential of the posse, who pleaded guilty for identity theft will serve 6 months in jail, probably the longest related to Russian meddling crimes.
Just to bench mark election crimes, Texas recently sentenced a Mexican woman for 8 years in prison for illegal voting. While the above clan will end up in cushy careers as contributors and consultants on conservative circles! It just shows the influence of power and vice versa.
One positive thing is that this investigation exposed Trump’s other potential crimes in the state of NY and has devastating effect on his brand. Hope the Justice prevails there.
54
@NMT. I agree and remember that the bankers and Wall Street who put the economy in the dumper also walked: Justice for all? Money talks, end of story.
3
@NMT Even a future president cannot shield Trump from state tax charges. Thank goodness for that.
4
I think foreign policy "expert" and real estate debtor Kushner may be a big fish in this. We heard rumblings of his atempts at a backdoor communication channel with russia. Likely every of his many security-clearance-form revisions led Mueller right to the interesting bits.
46
Something seems amiss here. Mueller is recommending that Flynn receive no jail time for lying to the FBI about 1) breaking the Logan Act law in trying to negotiate with Russia before Trump became president and 2) failing to register as a foreign agent in lobbying for Turkey as required by the FARA.
So I get that Mueller may forgive him for the lying based on his cooperation, but if he also broke the underlying laws which prompted that lying, is he getting off for those, too? That seems way too lenient to me.
21
@Evan,
What many are missing here, in criticizing the recommendation of no prison sentence, are at least these two points: First, just because Flynn was charged with only one count doesn't mean that this is all Mr. Mueller can charge him with. What's going on here, I suspect, is a charge bargain. That is, Mueller could have charged Flynn with a number of other crimes and recommended a prison sentence, but because of the nature and extent of Flynn's "substantial cooperation", he is choosing not to, at this time. Should Flynn breach the plea agreement in any way, Mueller is free to go after him for any number of charges, just as with Manafort. And second, by recommending no prison sentence, Mueller can dispense with the usual requirement of describing any number of egregious acts that would justify prison time. The more substantive information Mueller provides, the easier it is for Trump and his toadies to continue to witness tamper or otherwise obstruct the investigation. Conclusion? Mueller gave up nothing here. He is very comfortably in the driver's seat. No doubt there will be more indictments. Mueller is playing the long game, wisely so. As much as I'd like the "vengeance" of seeing Flynn in an orange jumpsuit, I understand exactly why Mueller gave him the deal he did. This decision only strengthens Mueller's case against this corrupt president and his cronies.
2
Has anything been done for Gen Flynn by the special counsel's team regarding his military status. The Army still has to be heard from as they retain "control" over him as a retired officer. This includes his "status and retired pay et al. If he has done such a good job for the special counsel are they going to do anything for him re the military?
11
@paul s. I agree. Flynn should be stripped of his rank and forfeit his military benefits.
2
Regardless of his cooperations, Mr. Flynn should serve time for willfully and intentionally lying, misleading and working on behalf of another government; he should be held accountable for his actions.
It is simple: there are consequences for actions; whether Republican, Democrat, or Independent, right is right and wrong is wrong.
At this point in the investigation, it seems that Mr. Flynn’s cooperation reflects the fact that he got caught, not that he had an epiphany and decided to do the right thing.
Perhaps there are additional facts about his cooperation that would alter opinion-then we shall amend accordingly and necessarily.
22
@DM
Perhaps it is a kind of "white flag" informing others that might be considering turning states evidence that they will be dealt with in a lenient manner...and so encouraging their co-operation.
Humans are motivated by both self-interest and by values. Typically we distort our view of the world so we don't have to choose. It's easier when things align. So Flynn is probably motivated by both. It's easier to see the latter when staying out of jail is factored in.
3
We don't know all the details with Flynn but his interactions with the Russian govt certainly looks like classic textbook treason (that would have sentenced a person to the electric chair in a different decade.) I realize Muller needed Flynn's information, but it is another dark sign of the USA in 2018 that someone like Flynn can do so much harm to the USA and THEN get a light sentence.
Meanwhile Edward Snowden cannot come to the USA because he is to some in our govt a traitor. Ugh what a mess this country is in.
36
@K Henderson
This was only a sentencing recommendation.
The actual sentencing with be determined by the judge.
Be patient.
1
I see this as another case of "rank has its privileges."
At the small (in terms of personnel) Army base where I finished my enlistment, the base commander, a full colonel, took his staff car off base and, under the influence of alcohol, wrecked it. His punishment, on the condition he resign immediately, a promotion to brigadier general.
14
@Glen
And I am guessing the medal he got for that resignation with promotion was a miniature wrecked auto.
And if he had a CIB, it should have been taken from him--since the wrecked auto would have been apt recognition.
4
Who decides how much gets redacted? Muller was able to keep a lot out of the public eye, but he was still forced to show his hand a bit. Why did we learn as much as we did and not more or less?
3
@Ben there are multiple ongoing investigations, so there are redactions. The investigation is complex, much mor so than any of us, know.
@Ben
Mueller decided, I believe.
From the Mueller sentencing memo:
"Because the Addendum includes sensitive
information about ongoing investigations, the government is seeking to partially seal the
Addendum, and has filed publicly a redacted version of the document that excludes the sensitive information.""
The judge handling the case has the last word on redaction.
From the beginning it was clear that Mr. Flynn knew his conversation would be recorded and on the record. No one in the security world would have made that call without direct orders from a superior whom they trusted would give ground cover for them. Therefor refusing to give those above cover when they would not cover for him was to be expected,
As most of the people who thought loyalty was a two way street with DT have found out that ain't so.
16
From a former federal prosecutor who wrote dozens of sentencing memoranda for cooperating witnesses: Though you correctly identify the phrase "substantial assistance" as a term of art, you still lean heavily, and improperly so, on the word "substantial." The phrase "substantial assistance" is a required statutory trigger to allow the judge to depart from the otherwise applicable sentencing range. It is in EVERY sentencing memo submitted by the government on behalf of a cooperating witness. All "substantial" means in this context is that a cooperating witness has not violated his bargain and has materially furthered the investigation and/or prosecution of one or more persons or entities. "Substantial assistance" is therefore more incantation than tea leaf.
26
@TS - OK, I'm sure we all appreciate your acumen and experience on this but here's what I say in addition: We'll all see soon enough how substantial his cooperation was. Just seems interestingly timely that this is all coming on the heels of Cohen and Manafort dramas. Substantially timely.
7
And very shortly after Trump submitted his written answers to Muller.
1
I'd like to know the day and the time when Mr. Flynn will personally present Mrs. Clinton with a heart-felt apology on Fox TV.
181
From afar I saw Flynn scream “lock her up”
Surely justice calls now for him to be locked up for his crime
As s Canadian I thought I knew (and admired) the United States.
Not any more
2
@A. Stanton
Oh wow, that would indeed be a "heroic" act. It would right so many wrongs. Thanks.
1
If this is the new standard in Washington (process crime followed by relentless government legal pressure) there will be very few people in Washington truly innocent. Flynn is the status quo in DC.
31
@Dady - So, it's okay to let everyone off the hook because everybody does it? Or is your concern that everyone might be subject to prosecution?
Why should people in power get a slap on the wrist or, worse yet, a look the other way? Particularly while people are serving lengthy prison sentences in degrading and debasing conditions because they can't afford teams of lawyers and their convictions look good on some DA's resume.
The idea is, as emulated by the Obama administration, stay clean. Don't do that stuff. Don't create a scandal. Don't hire someone who has scandal written all over themselves.
The issue is related to the standard we have established by placing a lying, cheating, arrogant, womanizing (to put it mildly), semi-educated, paranoid grifter in the White House, who then brings along his cronies, allows those cronies to bring their pals, and relies on the advise of a son-in-law whose resume shouts "For Sale to the Highest Lender."
That, by all measures, is the current status quo.
280
@Dady
Sorry, but that's utter nonsense and a smear of the countless govt employees, both civil service and political appointees, who work hard and honestly every day on behalf of the people of this country.
228
@Dady My father worked in the U.S. Senate for 30 years. He was motivated by a desire to improve the nation he cared about. He worked hard and was fulfilled. Most of his colleagues seemed about the same to me. Yes, it is a very different world now, but if the voters want a government that serves them, they ought to pay attention and vote based on things that matter. It's always comforting to think bad things happen because of bad or corrupt people. Typically, really bad things happen when good people stop paying attention or accept irrational premises or are stuck in a bad system. Also, we now make lots of judgments about things with no real information because we think we know the way the world (or Washington, DC) works.
87
Yes, it is possible that we may never know why a respected man like Flynn did what he did. Perhaps its like contracting a fever when you hang out in the swamp that was Trump's campaign too long. As we have seen Trump Madness mania has infected 40 percent of our population.
This does not absolve Flynn or the masses that have fallen sway to Trump's corruption, but it does show how vulnerable to con men we can become without the frame of reference supplied by a sense of truth and lawfulness.
15
I'd like to know the day and the time when Mr. Flynn will personally present Mrs. Clinton with a heart-felt apology.
34
By now, most Americans are in full agreement that Donald J. Trump does not belong in the White House. Now there is widespread agreement that he, more appropriately, belongs in the Out House.
37
Cannot wait to read the 302’s connected to this case. Let’s dig deeper into Obama unmasking a decorated military veteran and US citizen.
@Mike B. I think you meant to say the 'Big House'....
I'm wondering if some of the redacted info had to do with Flynn's role in working with Mercer and Strategic Communications Laboratory (SCL) during the campaign. He was an advisor for SCL.
SCL is affiliated with Cambridge Analytica, which micro targeted Facebook users illegally. And CA was used by the Trump campaign (hired by Kushner). CA is also tied to Steve Bannon, Bolton, the Mercers (who were on the transition team and major donors to Trump). It seems Breitbart echoed some of the fake news that was going around Facebook.
Some common denominators here.
31
I hope that the judge sentencing Flynn still retains great discretion in just what sentence Flynn faces. Whether or not there is prison time, we will see. But it would be poetic for the judge to demand and require Flynn to make a very public apology to Hillary Clinton for his vulgar, mean-spirited, and dishonorable behavior at the Repub convention of 2016.
70
Smart move on Mueller’s part to ask for no jail time which makes a Trump pardon less attractive. This ensures that Flynn doesn’t do a double flip like Manafort did.
28
Mueller probably has lots of other charges he could also file against Flynn. Also, maybe this light sentence would inspire Manafort to tell the truth.
To paraphrase Flynn himself - if Hillary had done a tenth of what he has done, she would definitely have been locked up. Lock him up.
What about Flynn's Saudi nuclear deal, the lying about his Russian earnings, the planned kidnapping of the Turkish dissident Fethullah Gülen, secret communications channels for Jared and Russia, ... and he won't be locked up?!!!
T the very least, he should have the decency to apologize to Hillary Clinton in public!
56
People like witnesses telling the complete truth.
People like exposure of secret meddling in election.
People like silence vs excuses not under oath.
People will remember that Michael Flynn and Michael Cohen changed their tune and their allegiance. And that it was constructive to determining the truth; and that is to their credit.
Robert Mueller is highly respected by the majority of American citizens. If he says that Mr Flynn ended-up doing the right thing and that it counts for something, then it did.
15
The anger and disgust directed towards Flynn is justifiable but it's hard to access whether or not a custodial sentence is appropriate when the extent of his cooperation with the investigation is unclear. If it leads to an indictment of individual 1 and individual 1's family, cabinet members and aides that may be an equitable exchange and could lift some of the stain on Flynn's reputation.
15
Flynn's cooperation with Mueller spells the end of the Trump's desire for a 2nd term. The democrat House will further dampen the chances of Trump to win a 2nd term as Trump's shady finances see the light of day. Republican senators pulling away from Trump on MSB may know something we don't as they look to the future of a GOP without the baggage of a corrupt Trump presidency.
18
I know Muller has asked for leniency, but will flynn get it? I hope not.
19
@Kate
What if his cooperation means he provided enough assistance to insure Trump's head will be served up on a platter by the special prosecutor?
Would that make a lenient sentence justifiable?
1
@Kate; On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other, this is what other felons count upon when they give up information on their equally corrupt, or even more corrupt cohorts. People in the same position as Flynn, in the future, would not be so eager to cooperate with the law, unless they knew there was something in it for them to do so. As in a lighter sentence or a practically non-existent sentence. I hope Roger Stone, and Jerome Corsi, who I see as two low life, guttersnipe fiends, get what is coming to them. I love when people who think that they are big shots and smarter than everyone else get their just due.
Hopefully, Mr. Mueller will have enough to totally disenfranchise even the most ardent Trump follower. Hopefully Mr. Mueller has enough on Trump to prove him to be the small time hood and big time con man that he is. So that even the most ardent Trump supporter will see the contempt they are viewed with. Hopefully, Mueller can rat him out for every dirty thing he's ever done, and totally destabilize the foundations of Trump Towers' universal. And then the States can move on to getting a similar piece of the action, and then NYC et al. There is no reason now to believe that Trump ever honestly earned a dime.
26
Unlike what the nytimes editorial board would like to think, Flynn's light or no sentence provides substantial indication that he was not involved in any serious illegal criminal activity involving Trump et al and conspiracy with Russia. That also strongly suggests none has been discovered, since Flynn has been falsely identified as a central figure.
4
@sh What the sentencing recommendation indicates is that you couldn't be more wrong.
1
@sh... me thinks you overlooked pages of redactions where Flynn cooperated with an ongoing criminal investigation which the Muller team is not leading. Now I'm no attorney, but if my client has potential criminal exposure the retainer just went up.
A question for Michael Flynn:
Care to repeat that chant?
What?
We can’t hear you.
Louder please.
Pretend you are at the podium during the Republican convention.
Okay. Let us help you.
One...
Two...
Three!
“Lock...
41
@Opinioned!
You may have missed in the press that the investigation around Clinton and the misuse of the Foundation are heating up -
Pelosi 2019!
9
Would be nice, but Is there sufficient dirt on Pence?
5
Remember how Trump defiantly hired Flynn as his national security advisor over Obama’s strong advice not to hire him at all? The special counsel’s sentencing recommendation in face of the seriousness of Flynn’s crimes—which, as several earlier commenters have observed, must mean Flynn delivered the mother lode—not only validates the wisdom of Obama’s advice but is the height of the many ironies of this presidency. Trump was not about take advice from the predecessor he claimed was so unworthy of the office, and his failure to do so may be his ultimate undoing.
192
I don't care whether Flynn gets jail time. I do care that Trump is impeached and hope he'll spend time in jail, but won't hold my breathe on the later. Flynn's testimony is obviously help Mueller nail Trump..yea!
27
While there’s focus on Flynn concealing his transition period calls with Russian ambassador Kislyak, Flynn’s Russian contacts go much further back. In August 2015 Flynn met Trump for a 90 minute meeting in New York. Three months later in December of 2015, Flynn sat next to Putin at an anniversary dinner. In July 2016 the Trump campaign was considering Flynn as a potential VP. In November 2016 Trump announced he would nominate Flynn as national security advisor. In December 2016 Flynn and Kushner met Russian Ambassador Kislyak at Trump Tower.
16
can trump get unrecdacted versions of these filings via whitaker?
8
@t power yes Whitaker can get the unredacted files as he is the boss of Mueller and Rosenstein but he must know if it comes out he is out as AG.
8
Hey, he went easy on him as requested. Winning!
5
Only bringing down Trump can merit leniency for Flynn.
34
The irony of seeing this man led off to the hoosegow is too delicious to be ignored. Oh, how the gods will laugh!
9
Netanyahu-Kushner encryption/conspiracy over UN 2334 is crime most directly connected to Flynn - this a central thrust of Mueller's charges
Netanyahu's ordering of Mossad/Private Mossad Ops on the 2016 election, Hillary Forest and Cruz Bear, are another set of Logan Act charges catching up Joel Zamel, PsyGroup, and Don Jr
Netanyahu also ordered Mossad/Private Mossad Front Black Cube against the Obama Iran team
bye bye Bibi
10
"The words “substantial assistance” are a legal term of art and carry significant weight in sentencing decisions. "
Many times in law school the professor would highlight a phrase as a "legal term of art," meaning that we should pay attention.
12
And Lin-Manuel Miranda has got plenty of new material...for a different kind of musical!
22
Before cooperating, Mr. Flynn displayed an unusually aggressive, almost angry attitude in his role as a Trump booster, not to mention the behavioral concerns observed by his colleagues as well as President Obama.
I am very thankful that Flynn is no longer in the highest levels of our government.
65
I’m interested in what happened to Gen Flynn. As I understand it something changed with him around the time he was fired by Obama. He’d apparently become dictational, obsessed with Iran and ordered staff to find evidence of his suspicions rather than following evidence. Several of his old comrades spoke of a charge in him. Then he showed up with Trump. What changed?
We don't know yet what Mueller has on Flynn, but it seems like they could be serious crimes. Discussing foreign policy with a foreign adversary when not in office is a violation of the Logan Act. Arranging for a backdoor channel to foreign adversaries outside the purview of US security officials appears to be complicit with espionage.
In agreeing to reduce sanctions as compensation to an adversary for assistance in winning an election, one is doing the bidding of the adversary because they would only be giving assistance to achieve a result that they want. Therefore, the person would be committing one of the two acts of treason that is a person who is “... adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
It seems like the SCO only charged Flynn with lying to them about what he was doing and excused him of the underlying crimes. To counteract the effects of a conspiracy and deter others from similar acts an investigation must have the evidence indict those at the top.
Prosecutors can either offer a plea to a person like Flynn which does not punish him for all the crimes he has committed, or they can indict him and hope that they evidence against the leaders is exposed in court. Watching the video of Flynn leading mindless chants of “Lock her up” one can’t help in thinking that he deserves to be punished fully. Unfortunately, the evidence that they might have to convict him might not be enough to expose the person or persons above him.
8
@Denis Nobody has been convicted of a Logan Act violation. It's a 200 year old law, that's hardly, if ever, been enforced. And from what we think happened, that Flynn said to the Russian ambassador something to the effect that they should not overreact, not escalate, in response to the new sanctions by Obama because the new administration was coming in a month, sure doesn't amount to much. If that's all he said, no way Mueller would have charged him with that as a Logan Act violation and if he did, no jury in America would have convicted.
2
Which begs the question: why lie to the FBI, Congress and the VP about it?
"Mr. Flynn’s assistance must give pause to the president, who has complained that “flipping” to testify against others should be illegal and has denigrated the work of law enforcement agencies."
I wonder if Donald Trump would be so sanguine and cavalier about stating the above if the tables were turned and Hillary Clinton were under investigation for ties to a foreign adversary to whom she in part owed her election?
Somehow, what's good for the goose, ain't for the gander with this president who routinely accuses others of actions he often is guilty of.
Like many who post here, I follow Mr. Mueller's every move, as long as he's able to make them. It's not so much that I expect Trump to be dethroned if evidence warrants, but I want to know the full truth, and nothing but.
Over and over we see tantalizing crumbs but no full loaf. That the president rails so much against the investigation(s) indicates that where there's smoke there's likely fire.
I just wish we had a president who praised the rule of law instead of openly denigrating it like a mob boss to whom loyalty is more important than justice.
80
@ChristineMcM
It's a "family" thing.
There is no reason to doubt the wisdom of Robert Mueller's offering leniency to Michael Flynn, for the sake of this inquiry and future prosecutions; clearly his contribution has been valuable. That said, I'm troubled at the prospect of Flynn's getting no jail time at all, given the nature and gravity of his crimes; and also that Mueller's team cited his military career as a factor, which seems to me irrelevant to questions of justice. I can't help thinking of (and seeing on TV) his leading the chant of "Lock her up." So this true enemy of the people should be locked up, if only for a while.
98
@Jeff Scheuer-Gen. Flynn also lied to Congress and lied on his disclosure forms. Surely the Republicans who have put so much store in their investigations would open up an inquiry.
2
@Jeff Scheuer - two years sounds fair, reduced to 1 year with good behavior. That way he is a felon for life and is also rewarded for cooperation.
2
Flynn betrayed his service. As a senior intelligence official he should have been smarter. But I guess not.
2
All I can say is I do not want to hear anyone call Mr. Flynn an American hero for what he has done. Committing serious crimes showing a serious lack of judgement does not make someone a hero just because they came clean to a prosecutor. I am sure Fox News is getting ready to put Flynn in the Oliver North file and start minimizing his transgressions and betrayal of our country.
538
@Vexations
To the contrary, Fox News will try to eviscerate Flynn's reputation, claiming he made up a bunch of lies to save himself, and to undercut Trump's presidency. They will do this even if facts, which are proven to be true, are the basis for Mueller's actions regarding the Trump Administration and Russia.
5
@Vexations There's no "e" in judgment.
"His coming sentencing after a year of valuable cooperation with prosecutors brings us a step closer to learning why Mr. Trump was so invested in him."
It's more likely Flynn is dumping dirt on Obama, Brennan and Clinton, which he'd accumulated over 2 years as DDIA, than on Trump, whom he knew for a cup of coffee.
@Vexations what did he do? Delete 33000 subpoenaed emails? Did he run a soft target server with classified secrets on it in violation of the law? Did he hire foreign operatives to get 'dirt' from Russia? We know who did these things. We also know that Flynn did not do the things for which he plead guilty. And please, don't give me that line that no one pleads guilty to a crime they didn't commit. If you say that, the first thing I will know is you are not living in the real world.
What makes someone who served our country be so willing to betray it? Was it for the money? His hatred of the Clintons? I am sure Flynn wants some sort of redemption and it's more honorable to forgive. But I'm not willing to consider that just yet -- not in light of how much damage he has done to our country.
647
@cece
Have patience, cece. For all we know, any damage that Flynn did may be strongly counter-balanced with the help he gave Mueller.
It was Flynn who brought Mueller on board when Ginger tried to call Comey off. It was Flynn who called Kislyak well knowing Kislyak was surveilled very closely. Flynn knew he would be caught.
I wouldn't be surprised if Flynn wasn't cooperating or working with intelligence and the FBI from day one.
If so, he qualifies as a hero. We have to wait and see, and yet we may never know.
15
@Nelly Should this be the outcome his part of the trump era history may not be so harsh.
It is an abhorrent betrayal that someone of his rank and level of knowledge regarding US intelligence sought to capitalize on it with this countries adversaries.
It's chilling to imagine what the current cabinet and administration will betray and sell once they leave the WH. It's likely they are already cashing in.
An amoral unethical lot the likes of which this country hasn't seen in decades.
65
@cece. I think we can glean a bit of an answer from Flynn's enthusiastic embrace of "lock her up." Someone who was a patriot would not encourage breaking the rule of law. Just because he was in the military doesn't make him a decent human person. The proof: the sought to profit from his position when he was on Team Trump, and now he seeks to profit from his position as a witness for the prosecution. He's basically an opportunistic turncoat.
20
"If I had done 1/10th of what she did, I'd be in jail now. Yeah lock her up!" The pinnacle of hypocrisy and flaming lies and conspiracy theories. He better had given Mueller the biggest fish of all for this lifeline after the disgrace he was during the 2016 campaign.
1124
@Pete
Well said!
95
@Pete
What do you mean "was?"
3
@Pete
Exactly! Flynn was willing to lock her up for nothing! She went in front of Gowdy's Benghazi investigations seven times and passed. Her e-mail server issue was investigated by the FBI, and their results vetted by none other than Paul Ryan. Still no chargeable offenses. Flynn himself, however, took a plea to save his posterior even more serious charges. @Pete, truly this is the pinnacle of hypocrisy!
23
Talking to foreign countries after the election is not a crime and not collusion. If the president at that time was acting against the wishes of the President - elect, the president was acting against the wishes of the American people and it should not have happened. A President who did not do anything when Russia was interfering in the election who have waited out or consulted the president elect what to do.
6
@Alex E
Alex, actually, talking to a foreign government while a private citizen with the intent of influencing their policy in a dispute with a sitting president is a crime, but that one was dropped in a plea bargain. The crime Flynn plead guilty to was lying under oath. As for consulting with Trump - Trump turned down almost all offers from the outgoing administration for consultation, and the few he took he disregarded. If Trump had followed consultation he would have fired the compromised Flynn much earlier, and he would now be in a much better position as a result.
15
@Alex E
How about conspiring with foreign countries BEFORE the election? That OK with you?
9
@earlyman. Its so cute when people such as alex make statements that are false, or aka "alternative facts." I cannot count how many times its been stated that speaking to foreign govts between elections is illegal.
6
When my house got broken into, I was quite relieved that a neighbor who witnessed the criminal act willingly "flipped" and called the police.
4
@Occam's razor
A bit of stropping may be necessary: Wouldn't your witness-neighbor had to have been one of the gang that conspired to break into your house in order for him to have "flipped"?
9
Frankly, I could care less how much Flynn, cooperated, he "cooperated to keep his stars, and hopefully not go to a federal prison with Manafort. But he's still a traitor to this country, on many levels, and he deserves time in prison, just as a reminder that this country, is ruled by laws.
Flynn's cooperation is nothing more than self serving, and if there has ever been a reason for Trump to be worried, this is it, it's name is Flynn.
20
You treat a “former Army lieutenant general and director of the Defense Intelligence Agency” like a street informer, because he wasn’t much of a bookkeeper as a lobbyist.
My husband (retired Colonel) worked under Flynn. The first time he flew to DC to meet with him, hubby came home and told me- in private- that the guy was a ‘sleazeball.’ I found out much later that Flynn had pressured his subordinates to doctor intel to make it look like things were going better in Iraq/Afghanistan than they actually were.
Please know that not everybody who makes it to general is a ‘hero’. A good number of these people clawed their way up the ranks the old-fashioned way: by kowtowing to their superiors, bullying their subordinates, and back-stabbing their peers.
Lock him up.
463
@Terri
Thank you for your comments, and those of your husband too. They are invaluable for those of us who might automatically associate all senior military officials with discipline, selflessness and the ability to act in
our nation's best interests.
115
@D. Poehler I second that! I am so very grateful to hear this account, thankyou Terri!
40
@Terri I think he is a disgusting individual. I hope the judge gives him some time in prison. I don't care how much he's cooperated. He deserves jail time.
3
We need to see people in jail who have harmed our country. I was very disappointed that more of President Bush's people didn't end up behind bars.If they had, it may have given Flynn, Mannafort, Stone, Cohen and others pause before betraying the ideals of our country.
79
@Peter It needs to be REAL prison, though. Send them to Leavenworth.
20
@Peter
YES. That!
8
Hopefully we'll find out why Sessions lied so many times, although it's doubtful that he will pay any penalty for it.
35
@Thomas Payne Is it terrible to wish a little prison time on Sessions? He tried so hard to imprison people for minor crimes and for outrageously long sentences.
17
Now that the Bush spectacle has been put aside, we'll see how long before Trump gets back to business as usual, tweeting about Mueller, etc. I am losing heart that anything is going to come of the investigation, after all. At the very least, maybe Mueller could provide those tax returns, so that maybe the unswayed will see the fraud that Trump is.
8
@Robert Detman
You do know about the emoluments lawsuit that has been allowed to move into the discovery phase, those subpoenas may include Trumps tax returns, where we would probably see money from Russia, Don Jr said as much.
22
Isn't "going easy" on Flynn something President Trump asked James Comey for? So Mueller is just doing as President Trump wanted all along.
10
@John M
Not quite, as with any sentencing, the judge has the ultimate say so, he doesn't have to abide by any recommendation. The judge may feel the same way, that Flynn, regardless of his cooperation, violated the public trust to such a degree, that prison time is warranted.
For me, not only does Flynn's cooperation mean nothing, and as such prison is warranted, but he should also lose two of his three stars...
18
@James Young Two? Leave him one? I don't think so. He used his rank to cozy up to Putin. After his civilian sentencing he should be court-martialed, reduced in rank to E-1, dishonorably discharged and imprisoned in a stockade.
How does this affect Flynns military record and benefits ?
9
Michael Flynn was a US Army Lieutenant General. He led our troops into battle against the enemy. No sooner had he left office, however, he began to make outreaches to our enemies for personal gain.
He stood on a stage at the Republican National Convention and goaded the audience to shout “lock her up” – referring, not to an enemy of the US, but to a former American Secretary Of State.
Have you got no shame, Mr. Flynn? Good that you helped Mueller and good for you that you’ll get a reduced sentence but please think about all this and consider a reset.
Start by issuing a clear and unequivocal apology to the American public who put their trust in you.
179
@Mike Edwards
You could repeat it again about the Republican Party.
7
A light sentence, like 2.5 - 5 years would be nice.
32
Flynn seemed to be the key Russian connection, the Manchurian candidate if you will. As NSC director, he would have been the pro-Russia advocate at the center of national security policy, involved in all decisions. Those early investigations by Comey, and then Flynn's lying to Pence, fortunately damaged this critical link before it ever got going. "No collusion?" Maybe so, but only after Flynn was taken out. Otherwise collusion would have been daily and on-going. We have Comey to thank for this one.
21
@lennyg Overall, I agree with you. But do you really believe that baloney that he was fired for lying to Pence? That was the excuse used to justify Flynn as the sacrifice in the hope that the news attention would die down on the Russian connection.
2
As a retired (reserve) military officer, I would like to see someone (Anyone?, Anyone?) subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice prefer charges against Flynn, citing Article 134: “Conduct prejudicial to the good order and discipline . . .” Flynn is still subject to the Code.
He does not deserve to hold the title, nor receive the benefits, of a general officer.
Colonel, Retired, Not a Criminal
161
@James D Ritchie-Indeed, he disgraced his uniform and his behavior was even noted in Russian-issued intelligence that ended up in the Steele Dossier.
5
@James D Ritchie I agree totally ... BT1 USN ret
4
The addendum to the sentencing memorandum has most of the significant detail blacked out.
Camp Trump – or should that be Bunker Trump? – will be worrying about what that detail comprises.
4
Flynn still could be charged with other crimes, he is not getting immunity, he is just not being charged by Mueller...
7
@Steve
Yeah, but it's the principle of the thing: an admitted felon gets a pass for ratting out other felons. That's bizarre justice. Pragmatic, I guess.
The universe has a crazy delayed symmetry in the Trump orbit. An example is Flynn leading the chant “Lock her up” but now he’s awaiting his own sentencing. I’m anticipating the day when Trump is found guilty of every wild allegation he ever tweeted about Hillary and Obama. What goes around, comes around.
41
The one person the president didn't want to flip now has done so. The one who knows everything about Russia and the Trump campaign. A cold blooded pro. 19 interviews? Uh oh.
No wonder Trump looked so miserable at Bush's service today. The irony of it all.
Lock HIM up!
116
@Lou Good
I think trump looked so miserable at Bush's service, because he wasn't getting any news coverage and former Pres Bush was.
5
No need to angle for a pardon. Best to spill the beans and serve your country.
11
Hypothesis: Mueller proves collusion between the convention and Russia based on Flynn's testimony. Additionally, there was quid pro quo, maybe reduced Russian sanctions in return for release of the hacked emails. Now what? The Republican-dominated Senate for 2019 appears to support Trump, at least to the extent that 67 votes to convict Trump of impeachment are unlikely. In that scenario, could Trump lead the nation effectively? How would he be viewed in the world at large? Unfortunately, this is a very likely scenario.
My presumption is that Trump will stay the course for two years, and by then the public will vote him and his supporters out of office by a mandate much larger than 2018's, I hope that his eventual successor will be able to repair most of his damage to democracy and to the office of the president that he has inflicted on the nation.
36
@Harold: Trump is already viewed as a buffoon by the world at large. How much worse could it be?
It's built into our justice system to lessen the severity of time sentenced and or served in jail if one cooperates. Having said this it seems to me that those who commit white collar crimes and those who are wealthy usually get a slap on the wrist and are back in "business" in no time. I wish for once, that those who commit these crimes would face the harshest penalties and jail time. Perhaps if they were held accountable others might think twice about pulling off these crimes in the future. The fact that the likes of Trump, Manafort, and Stone are mocking Mueller, the legal system, and the average American citizen is proof enough for me that they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent the law allows. They laugh in our faces and dare us to do something about it as they go on with their lives unaffected by much of anything.
82
Michael Flynn's military service must also have been a factor in the special counsel's recommendation for little if any jail time.
What a tragic character Flynn is.
13
I never thought I'd find myself cheering Mike Flynn, but if a lighter jail sentence and promise of no heavy fine is what it takes for him to spill the beans on what he knows about Donald Trump's shady dealings, that's fine by me.
Besides, he's one of the very few who actually had the spine enough to plead guilty to the charges against him -- and if it in any way helps to expedite the Mueller investigation, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
24
This advise people that if your are poor and without power you get a different standard of justice versus those that are rich politician.
It reconfirm that certain people are above the law. Also these people were given the public trust to undertake certain jobs.
9
Flynn must have made beautiful music to Mueller. Did he sing an aria or an entire opera?
8
Odd that today is Flynn's 60th birthday (although lordy he looks much older). Fired for being "abusive towards staff," among other things when serving in the military. His info for Mueller might be the highlight of his career.
18
"Mr. Flynn and the ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, discussed ways to undercut Obama administration policy in the Middle East and toward Russia"
Um, to be precise, he went to the ambassador to ask the Russians to side with Israel when Obama was going to abstain from a vote condemning the settlements.
The two countries that Trump is in bed with are the Saudis and Israel--specifically, Bone Saw and Netanyahu. Putin can only dream about the influence those two have on Trump. Good luck getting the media to acknowledge this.
10
@Donald,
Link please...
2
We all wait on tenterhooks to see how this will all play out in the coming weeks and months. The lieutenant general has forever besmirched his sworn duty and honor to his country to place it in dishonorable subordination in service to Donald Trump, a man never acquainted with either service or truth.
But rather than drag his tattered reputation further through the muck and mire of ambition to serve himself, his leniency finds approval in this humble space.
For without General Flynn’s cooperation with Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller, how far down the road might we as a country be—or not—in uncovering what most now widely believe is the criminal dependence of a presidential campaign for aid and comfort by a hostile foreign entity?
For what is frightening is that our Cold War enemy, one whose premier (Nikita Khrushchev in 1956) threatened “We will bury you,” came close to—or wildly succeeded— in removing American control over (a) the American government and (b) our flawed but sacred processes of conducting our national affairs. Equally troubling is the greasy acquiescence of a military man whose service spanned 30 years to the blandishments of a man whose failure to serve his country in its hour of need is now one of the dishonorable bullet points in a resume checkered with the greedy impulses born of an uncommon selfishness. General Flynn cannot say he was ignorant if the character of the candidate-now-president whom he served with horrible distinction.
22
If Flynn has earned a break by co-operating fully and providing critical information, regardless of my opinion of his politics and prior ethics, I say let him have his break.
I for one would very much appreciate it if the Times would put together a comprehensive page showing all of Mueller's court filings, with both a timeline and some degree of expert analysis by a seasoned prosecutor.
3
@Jacob Sommer,
The Times has done that a few times.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/30/us/mueller-investigation-team-prosecutors.html
3
@Victorious Yankee I did see that article, and it does have links to links. I was hoping for something that actually put all of the indictments in one place.
The reason that "that “flipping” to testify against others should be illegal", as Trump has argued, is not because there is something wrong with telling prosecutors about criminal activity. Rather its because the US is the only country that uses the English Common Law legal system that decides to prosecute people not because the severity of their crimes requires they be held to account for them, but for the sole reason that they can be forced to help with another investigation.
A government that decides to prosecute people purely because it serves the ulterior motives of the government, is not one which is a rule of law society. And the same is even more true where whether or not people go to prison is not based on the crimes they commited, but over whether they were able to curry favor with the prosecutors.
And this is because the crimes in question are not the types of crimes that cannot be tolerated, such as grand larceny or fraud let alone robbery or aggravated assault. These are crimes because they are violations of the massive, all encompassing and complex US Code. A set of laws that tens of millions of Americans violate and were it enforced to the full extent of the law tens of millions of decent people would be in prison.
In the rest of the world only the most egregious offenders are deemed to be deserving of prosecution. But here in the US, they prosecute people purely because they want to "flip" them. And this is a disgusting abuse of power.
1
@Michael Stavsen
Prosecuting someone "purely" in order to flip that person implies that the person is innocent of any crime...or at least that there's no case against that person. That's not the story. In this country you can only threaten to prosecute someone against whom you have a case, at least on paper. Of course innocent people are prosecuted all the time. But the idea, anyway, is that you have to have a case against him/her.
20
I must say, I admire the pretzel logic of anybody who can base a phony claim about cooperation and sentencing on the notion that this is the only country using, “English common law,” given that last I checked, America isn’t England.
9
@Robert
The legal system used here in the US is English common law, a system which is also used by the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. However the US is unique in that prosecutors can allow they want to be above the law, such as Flynn who will do no time even though he commited a crime because he helped the prosecutor, so the prosecutor helped him in return.
1
Flynn was guilty of his personal hubris, loyalty to a candidate over country and inability to understand the problems with these characteristics.
I'm sure he regrets it now. Poor baby.
Personal integrity in a high level officer or government official isn't optional, despite what our current President may hold to.
11
There are no Trump pardons in the works. Only a fool would believe otherwise. Trump looks after one person and that's Trump. If you want a fair deal you have to sit down with Mueller. That is, If it's not already too late.
As much as it pains me to see Michael "Lock Her Up!" Flynn escape jail time, it's evident that his plea deal was instrumental in getting others to cooperate with Mueller early on. It also appears that he has provided a lot of valuable information regarding as many as three separate investigations. We'll see.
11
@Vickie YOu're right about Trump's scope of interest. That being said, he will pardon someone if he believes it will benefit him.
Ironic that when all is said and done, Trump's wish to let Flynn off the hook may come true.
10
This monster should be barred from any political or lobbying efforts ever again. He should not be allowed to speak at any event or on behalf of anyone ever again.
He should also have any medals and titles taken from him, any pension (he could've been collecting a minimum of $237,000/year!), health insurance.
And if he was planning on a military funeral and a plot in Arlington Cemetary, those should be taken away.
He committed treason and mutiny. At the time he was in Russia Obama was president and his commander-in-chief.
In any other time he would be court-martialled!
He better deliver the goods that far exceed these benefits. And quite frankly, to me, that is nothing short of delivering all the Trumps on a silver platter (and throw in Pence for good measure, too!)
131
@Barbara Franklin
Well said. And I totally agree that Pence must go too. I believe he is being dishonest about knowing when Flynn lied.
5
I would like to see Flynn serve time.
He's a convicted liar and con artist just like the idiot he was serving before he got fired.
Working in this White House is like waking up every morning with severed horse's head next to you.
19
The Trump administration was delighted to deny FBI official Mc Cabe his government earned pension . Perhaps Michael Flynn should get the same punishment for his treachery.
99
@Frank Heneghan Bingo!
1
After a lifetime of Military Service, Mr. Flynn was seduced by the limelight. Lifestyles of the Rich, Famous, obnoxious and utterly tacky. Give him a break, he deserves it. And I’m speaking as a proud Veteran, from a Family of Veterans. And cooperation means a lot, in this den of thieves and scoundrels.
Seriously.
5
Flynn was fired by Trump because he had lied to Pence about his prior ties to Russia. What if Flynn didn't lie and Pence knew about his involvement with Russia? Just asking....
35
@CindyK
Say hello to President Pelosi.
36
CindyK,
That was just a story concocted by the Trump administration.
In late January, 2017, acting Attorney General Sally Yates warned Don McGahn that Michael Flynn was compromised and in danger of being blackmailed by a foreign government.
Flynn was not let go as Trump's national security advisor until 18 days later. And the only reason he was fired was that the press had discovered Yates' warning.
There's a very good chance that Mike Pence knew what was going on. He was also in charge of Trump's transition team and should have vetted Flynn.
53
@Blue in Green
please god, let pence be dragged into this all, too
23
General Flynn seems to have been assiduous mostly in trying to earn as much money as possible in the shortest time after retiring from the army. The article doesn't mention that he was also involved in plotting to kidnap a US resident Fethullah Gulen (according to the WSJ) and repatriate him to Turkey where he would almost certainly have been executed. I wouldn't give him too much credit for testifying and "helping" the Mueller investigation. He was basically saving his neck. If prosecuted for the Gulen affair he could have gone to prison for the rest of his life
32
@ian stuart He still could be charged, he is not getting immunity, he is just not being charged by Mueller...
12
@Steve I would have thought that kidnapping was a Federal crime? In which case he probably wouldn't be prosecuted
Mueller: "Mr. Flynn, you may very well get pardoned by the President if you refuse to cooperate, but we also have drawers full of incriminating evidence on your son, and we might not get around to pursuing that case for...oh....say, four years."
(pregant pause)
Flynn: "Ok, what do you want to know?"
18
Where did you get this piece of misinformation? Breitbart's website?
5
@Glenn Thomas :That's how all prosecutors work. They extort info with threats.
4
@David Rea Yes David Rea! Wait 'till Trump is gone to go after the son.
Would Michael Flynn stand to see his son get twenty years?
1
I am nearing the "put up or shut up" portion of my tolerance towards Mr. Mueller.
Disclaimer: I have long beheld Robert Mueller as the fantasy savior who is coming to rid of us of Trump and his parasitic infection of a family. Every despairing thought I have since Trump has had the same silver Mueller-shaped liner.
At night, I don't count sheep: I count Muellers. I imagine the Trump family being taken out with handcuffs. I fantasize about the restoration of morality, of sanity. I imagine a recommitment to our ideals: an improved America with a bipartisan team that includes anyone from Mueller himself, to Joe Biden, Amy Klobuchar, Adam Schiff, Mitt Romney, Michael Bloomberg--anyone who has ever successfully paraded the appearance of a moral coda.
I do my part! I read every word reported in the Times and in the Washington Post. I am on a first name basis with Rachel Maddow. I occasionally rebut the butt-heads over at Fox. I vote blue. I teach my kids civics lessons and expound of the benefits of democracy, evidence aside.
....and I am running out of oxygen.
I don't want to hear about these paltry sentences for the likes of Flynn, or Cohen, or Pappa-whatever-his-name. I just want to know: Does Mueller has the goods on Trump and his merry band of traitors? Will the GOP continue to protect him? How rotten is the wood beneath the veneer?
That is what I am waiting to find out. Let's move on with it already.
26
@GWE
The fact that this investigation is proceeding as slowly and methodically as it is shows if anything, just how intricately involved the matters are and the extent to which those who are involved are willing to cover it all up.
You may be running out of oxygen -- but most Americans find it's well worth the wait.
28
And the evidence has to be ironclad. Even then a significant number of people will never accept it.
12
@GWE When you compare to Watergate, Iran-Contra and other special prosecutions, this one is a blitzkrieg and delivering lots of goods in record time.
16
A man with a long and distinguished military career is rewarded for telling the truth and co-operating with the Special Prosecutor.
This was Flynn’s duty. It should not score brownie points. In Trump’s America truth is not an obligation. It is a commodity that is purchased.Just another transaction in the Trump world.
54
I get the leniency for one or two counts of lying to the FBI as part of a cooperation deal. That falls under the category of "covering up" ones's crimes. How come the question of the liabilities for the actual crimes is not discussed in the media? Like, is it OK to try and make a secret deal with Russians about the lifting of sanctions, to lie to White House staff, etc.? In other words, does exoneration for a cover-up prevent or have any other influence on any separate indictments for the crimes themselves?
4
Mueller and the Special Counsel may have agreed to leniency at the beginning of their discussions with Flynn in order to set up a scenario where, if Trump tried to dangle a pardon in front of Mr. Flynn, Mr. Flynn would not accept it. I imagine Mr. Flynn got quite an earful from members of the Military and the Justice Department about how he disgraced his country and the military with his treasonous actions, along with the suggestion that, to redeem himself, he spill it all. Along with that, Flynn gets little or no jail time and they are easy on his son. Consequently, there is not much Trump can do to shut Flynn up — a pardon is useless to a man who wants to redeem himself to his military buddies.
29
@Morningstar Nice scenario, but looking at the guy yelling "Lock her up!" - I seriously doubt that Flynn thinks he really did anything wrong.
1
God only knows why Flynn stupidly decided to lie to the FBI to protect what he evidently thought at the time were Trump's and his own best interests. But it seems he has made a correction that the sorry likes of Manafort can't or won't make, and I have to believe that Mueller's request for light sentencing for him will turn out to be just when the dust finally settles. If not it would call into question the integrity of the whole inquiry, and that doesn't seem to be Mueller's style. We will have our questions answered soon enough.
13
I'm completely okay with Flynn getting off light, as long as the sentencing leniency isn't the kind that Acosta gave Jeff Epstein! And I still can't shake the feeling that Trump is going to get off "scot-free" from all this, despite being an obviously compromised and criminal traitor.
16
@Brannon Perkison The only chance of bringing Trump and his co-conspirators to justice is after he leaves office. In January 2021 (or sooner, if we are lucky) Trump (and others) must be indicted for one or more of many crimes. Then there will be no issue of indicting a sitting president, no gross abuse of pardon power, and maybe the Republican Party will rid itself of his cult followers.
5
Papadopoulos is a lying nobody. His greatest contribution was leaking information to foreign intelligence agencies while drunk. Manafort is a lying double cross. He must have bigger problems than spending the rest of his life in prison. Stone is openly combative. Corsi isn't far behind. Their's will be a true test of wisdom in resistance.
Treating Flynn with leniency though makes perfect sense even if he didn't deliver the home run everyone expects. The Special Counsel is wise to reward good faith efforts. Working with Flynn was probably relatively easy too. Flynn is familiar with military intelligence and how government institutions function. He understands how to cooperate with Mueller.
I'm mostly curious to see how Mueller treats Cohen.
Cohen is a man who operated in Trump's orbit for decades. Now, at least in theory, he's laid everything on the table. What is that going to look like? Will we see that same "substantial assistance" modifier or not? I wonder.
5
Those disappointed with the lenient sentence, bear in mind;
The Mueller investigation is being undercut by a president willing to use his pardoning power to obstruct justice. Therefore it is essential that Mueller reward those who do cooperate. Think of the no-jail-time sentence as parity.
47
In Putins Russia, Mr. Flynn would, long ago, have had an unfortunate accident - falling from a twelve story window, a car accident, a fatal heart attack, an airplane crash, or a polonium cocktail served to him with his tea.
And make no mistake about it - these are the stakes we are playing, right now, here in the USA, with the preservation or loss of laws, law enforcement, courts, and justice. If we lose those, we will all be under the fascist rule of Putins version of America.
37
Did Flynn want to get caught? Speaking to Russians when he must have known they were monitored is an act of hubris or tempting fate.
In an era of dangling Trump pardons, at least Flynn somewhat redeemed himself. His vitriolic shouting "Lock her up!" at the Republican National Convention actually shocked me. I was still expecting Republicans to exhibit civility and decency, so evident in prior GOP leaders such as George H. W. Bush.
Yet Flynn would have known the costs of treason more than most. His standing ovation for Putin at the Moscow dinner was chilling.
What happened to this man and others in the Trump orbit? Did they forget all sense of honor, service, and patriotism? Did greed and power eclipse truer American values? Was this simple corruption?
Somehow Mr. Mueller was able to pull him back on the straight and narrow path, or to remind him of his own past service to the country, and Flynn cooperated. That is a valuable contribution.
I cannot fathom Trump, his supporters, or Republican politicians these days. With their attacks on the FBI and intelligence agencies, their voter suppression, etc., they seem to be having a permanent Opposite Day in rejecting the great principles of American democracy including that all are created equal, or Lincoln's haunting promise:
"... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
35
@smb We have a toxic cocktail of greed, amorality, narcissism, and totalitarianism, combined with simple greed and political expediency- what a mess!
12
If I recall, the Obama White House warned Trump not to hire Flynn, who blotted his copybook working for them. One could readily forgive Obama for a certain amount of schadenfreude if Flynn proves the undoing of the Trump presidency.
126
@RhettsHeir. That’s right! I had almost forgotten. One also has to wonder if firing Sally Yates when she reported Flynn’s compromised status won’t go down as one of dRump’s first acts of obstruction of justice.
10
I'd be happy if he is sentenced to lead cheers of "Lock them up" outside the many busy courthouses in the coming 2 years.
30
There is nothing that convinces me that Flynn is no longer a danger to our society, and to the world, so the only justification for letting him wander freely among us is to protect us from a much greater danger. Should that protection not materialize, then freeing Flynn is a grave mistake.
20
According to the Wall Street Journal, “Sentencing guidelines for someone like Mr. Flynn with no criminal history call for up to six months in prison on a charge of lying to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, but others who pleaded guilty to the same crime in the Mueller probe have received one month or less.” George Papadopoulos got a 14-day sentence. The sentences are short because the offenses were minor. Flynn and Papadopoulos appear to have lied to spare the Trump administration bad publicity, not to obstruct justice or cover up crimes.
When Trump fired Flynn, Flynn said “I have my own story to tell.” But people should not assume that the criminal investigation Flynn helped the Special Counsel with involves the Trump campaign or Trump administration. So far, none of the indictments Mueller has obtained are for unlawful collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. The criminal investigation might involve lobbying work that Flynn did for the Turkish government. Flynn also spent more time in the Obama administration than in the Trump administration.
1
@William Case And look at the Martha Stewart case. Months in prison for a foolish lie about a minor insider trading case.
5
@Alan D
Martha Stewart was convicted of insider trading, not lying about it. In addition, she lied to cover up the crime. Papadopoulos and Flynn didn't lie to cover up an underlying crime. They committed no crime except lying to the FBI. Insider trading isn't a minor crime.
1
Mueller is so humiliated by what he did to this man that he was too embarrassed to recommend jail.
Why bother he already disgraced and destroyed Flynn for nothing !
4
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman doesn't sound like you've retired?
25
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman Nice handle. Very apropos.
17
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman - This is the funniest thing I've read in weeks.
10
This is bigger than Flynn or even Trump, because it includes Putin, and his crimes against his own people. Many are unaware Trump hired folk who were already under federal investigation for serious crimes with Russia.
This is a RICO investigation of great significance, probably the most important in the history of the DoJ. Its reach is international, and may be the route to Putin.
79
@George Kamburoff RICO case? I sure hope so. That could envelope a lot of bad actors.
12
Flynn knows where all of Trump's secret business deals are buried. Is that enough to get him probation?
This scandal is once again showing the unfair justice system in America, white collar and political felons get two weeks at club Fed while street criminals get 5 to 10 in a real prison.
45
Regarding the seriousness of Michael Flynn's crimes and the intensity of Trump's reaction to his prosecution, I'd say that Flynn delivered the motherload to the special prosecutor. Flynn was in the middle of all of it.
Since Flynn was in on the beginning of the "Trump Experience", he may not know all that transpired. But he very well could have provided foundational information that Mr. Mueller used to connect the dots and weave his web around other criminal acts. Flynn could very well have provided the why and wherefore without knowing the who and the how.
Since this thing is dragging on, I'd say that is what is most likely happening. Trump is getting more aggressive all the time about the investigation and innocent people don't do that. Trump's constant lashing out goes a lot farther than a good defence starts with a good offense. Trump is acting like he has been cornered.
Michael Cohen feels abandoned and he is doing anything he can to save his hide. Add what he has submitted to what Flynn has provided and we may have some solid corroborating evidence. Stone and Manafort will go down with the ship and wait for their pardons.
I hope Trump does pardon them. Then we have him for witness tampering and obstruction. Trump may have the legal power to pardon but he doesn't have the legal right to circumvent justice. This is getting really interesting really fast.
195
@Bruce Rozenblit. Trump deserves jail time. "Lock him up". Let us as a country not make the same mistake as in Watergate in 1974, where Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon. I believe this allowed a repeat of violations. This time, follow the law. Put Trump and his lackeys in jail. If future candidates know they will do jail time if they cheat, they will not cheat.
4
My fellow defense lawyers and I have had several defendants cooperate early and to the best of their ability, including coopearting with undercover operations. To get a “homerun” of no time upon sentencing requires giving the US Attorney a homerun in present and future prosecutions. The fact that the sentencing memorandum was redacted could suggest that Mueller is expecting to run up the score with several more homeruns.
715
@Ben are you really a defense lawyer? Would you have your client plead guilty to a crime that several of the investigators had already said didn't happen? Mueller could never have gotten a conviction on that garbage. All he could do was keep racking up legal bills for Flynn. That's the difference between prosecution and persecution.
2
@Randall Bachmann
I believe anyone would have rolled over when a powerful government agency gets you in its sights and bankrupts you to the point you lose your home, destroys your career, and threatens to do the same to your children.
The crime was the leaking of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak and the unmasking of Flynn's name, a blatant felony by an unnamed official in the Obama administration.
1
@Ben
I've heard this from several prosecutors. CNN just said, the panel including a Watergate prosecutor, he believes it could be Don Jr. and even Jared Kuchner??
2
I hope his plea agreement prohibits him from chanting "lock her up" to angry, ill-informed crowds. And to think, our generals are supposed to be such straight arrows.
A little late now, but I'll bet if you asked General Flynn what, exactly Hillary had done that could lead to imprisonment, he wouldn't have an answer.
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@JR You could ask the same question of Trump. The fool wouldn't have the slightest idea
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Would a woman or POC get such a "light sentence"? Or avoid prison altogether?
One doubts it.
Time to hold wrongdoers accountable.
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It's very interesting and the leniency and appreciation of Flynn is remarkable.
I wondered about Flynn's rapid flipping and now after this sentencing memo, showing a couple of different investigations, the many ways Flynn could help Mueller.
Flynn was a veteran of Military Intelligence and headed the Defense Intelligence Agency (!) the guy would be privy to all sorts of stuff and the particulars of counter-intelligence or espionage operations. Flynn claimed to know that his conversations with Kislyak were recorded.
And what about his son forwarding Pizza Gate stuff and absolutely knowing it was false? And the younger is still busy criticizing the Mueller investigation. Father and Son had their very own "security and intelligence" firm. Leaked emails from Colin Powell make it clear that Flynn was considered a Right-wing wacko. And Obama fired him on apparently these premises too.
Maybe Flynn was playing both ends to the middle, acting as double agent in some capacity? The cloak and dagger stuff is often real. But whatever, it is appropriate that Mueller show absolute respect for the Military, not only because he IS that way, but also to reassure others in the Military that they will get a fair shake.
I hope that someday we can learn all the details, and particularly this one where initially Flynn, for all intents and purposes, appeared to be a traitor of the first rank.
Not good to jump to conclusions!
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@Nelly
Interesting. There were reports of a mole in the Trump campaign some time back.
Also, the Kremlin executed an intelligence operation that infiltrated the highest levels of US government. Does anyone actually believe this would have escaped detection by our own intel agencies? Not me. In fact, I'm pretty sure they've been on top of it from the beginning.
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@Vickie
I agree. National Security, on these levels, is carried forth by incredibly intelligent and astute people. Lots of time we many wonder at knuckleheads like Pompeo, but the body and soul of these agencies are NOT knuckleheaded at all.
For Flynn to metamorphize from dirty rat treasonous vermin, to ultra helpful witness, and perhaps even "hero" status, eventually, requires a bit of digesting.
We shall see. Maybe!
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Flynn stained the uniform it was his priviledge to wear. Whatever compelled him to seek out and cling to a person of trump's caliber is beyond me. And all for what? Money? Power? Prestige? Revenge?
Maybe his cooperating with the Mueller team has earned him no jail time. But his cooperating with Putin over the best interests of our country should bar him from any veterans benefits his rank would have otherwise entitled him to.
He is and will remain a disgrace.
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why has most of the republican party hitched its wagon to the Trump?
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@KEM-Indeed. Flynn was an early supporter of Trump.
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Agreed.
I don’t understand why ANYONE of decent reputation would get involved with Trump.
The Republican in the Senate and the House could have easily bent Trump to their will the last two years. Now they’re all complicit and defamed. History will not treat them kindly.
It’s no accident that the people Trump attracts are sleazeballs, grifters, conmen, and criminals. To the man. It’s unbelievable.
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Flynn was part of the treason committed by Trump and all of his enablers at the behest of Vladimir Putin. Putin calls the shots but apparently has no direct power over Mueller, aside from his control of the U.S. Justice Department and the Supreme Court of the United States. Because it is all but certain that Trump will pardon himself and his family, Mueller must hand down actual indictments so that we, the powerless people of the United States, know the exact crimes for which is pardoning himself. One of those crimes should be treason, the most obvious of them all.
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@Big Text . mueller is laying siege to trump. there will . be no way he will get out of treason, because thats what it will come down to. even McConnell will step back.
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@Big Text Your phrase, we the powerless people of the United States, disquieted me in a visceral manner. Sad and true and so very unfortunate for us, the 99%. And yet we swallow it every day, voicing our not-so-puny opinions here. Thank-you NYTimes for this platform. Thank-you Big Text for your stark reminder of our reality.
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So by cooperating fully and early, I suppose that allows Flynn and Cohen to hold onto their book advances....
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Surprisingly, this editorial fails to mention another obvious reason that Flynn chose to cooperate: His son, Michael Jr., who served as Flynn's chief of staff and was also involved in his father's business dealings, is also under investigation and this was in all likelihood high motivation for Flynn Sr. to cooperate. One would surmise that Flynn has negotiated leniency for Junior as well.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/politics/michael-flynn-son-special-counsel-russia-investigation/index.html
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@Peter J. Miller
Yes and remember that Flynn's son helped to spread the Comet Pizza lies that led a guy to drive hundreds of miles to barge into the pizza place with an AR-15 .
Flynn may have served, but his son never did.
https://www.gq.com/story/mike-flynn-junior-in-mueller-investigation-schreckinger
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I just want Hillary to tweet, "Lock him up!" Just once. Please.
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@Taxpayer
She could also tweet, "So glad that our democracy has due process." LOL
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Me too. But she’s got way too much class for that.
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@Terri She’s waiting for Trump’s indictment and impeachment.
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Michael Flynn appears to have earned the right kind of pardon for providing "'substantial assistance'" in multiple investigations related to whether or not the Trump campaign conspired with Russia to win the 2016 election. The contrast to the "abuse of power" pardons that Donald Trump has signaled to Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and others in a blatant attempt to "obstruct justice" is striking. Let's hope that Flynn along with Michael Cohen have provided the Special Counsel with sufficient information to prove conclusively if the Russian conspiracy to subvert our democratic election was aided and abetted by Donald Trump, Manafort, Stone and others.
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Seems to me the Mueller message to the rest of the Trump collusion team is "tell the truth about the dotard and the sentence will be light". While this may encourage others to come forward about Trump's crimes, one has to wonder if it is fair. When you do the crime, you should to the time.
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So, members of the Editorial Board, what do you really think about Mr Mueller's recommendation and, therefore, the likelihood that F Gen Flynn will serve little if any time incarcerated for misdeeds you describe as serious?
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During the early phases of the special counsel investigation we received an education about the differences between being a "person of interest" vs. a "subject of investigation" vs. a "target of investigation." I recall then that Trump and his people kept saying he wasn't a "target." Maybe it's just me but it seems over the past few months they stopped saying that. Hmmm.
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As I said in a comment for another article about Flynn, this is one thing I disagree strongly with about our justice department.
Flynn committed treason. Who cares how quickly he cooperated with prosecutors? Who cares how "sorry' he is? He helped try to destroy democracy in OUR United States of America.
The only reason Mr. Flynn deserves no prison time is if he was actually a plant, acting in behalf of OUR intelligence services. Maybe. Stranger things have happened.
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@njglea
I too think it possibility that Flynn was working both sides fence, perhaps as a plant, but whatever the case, this guy was in a good position to help Mueller with all manner of stuff.
Always more than meets the eye, and for the moment I am not going to consider Flynn the wicked traitor he appeared to be.
I am easy to fool, but Mueller and his A-Team aren't. Thank heavens.
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If irony were a crime the man who started the "Lock her up" chant would do some serious time regardless of his assistance.
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@Rick Gage
Give him a light sentence only if Trump goes out in handcuffs and that isn't happening yet. So lock him up.
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The secondary headline reads that Mr. Flynn "has provided 'substantial assistance' and deserves a light sentence."
If Mr. Flynn gets a light sentence for help he's provided the Mueller investigation, that fine. But whether he "deserves" to receive little or no prison time is something else. Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, and Michael Cohen all richly deserve to pay for their crimes.
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@jrinsc
Let's not forget that Spanky deserves to pay for his crimes too, "bigly".
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