Cohen and Manafort were two close associates of Trump.
The one who lied, Trump defend. The one who admitted lying, Trump attack.
What does this tell you?
1
It is official; the inmates are now running the asylum. How can anyone say with a straight face that this is not obstruction of justice if Manafort receives a pardon by the man whose butt his crony pal is covering. This has become a theater of the absurd. If it were a movie the title song would have to be ,"I Have Friends In Low Places." Future historians will be shaking their heads how this cabal of criminals ever got away with this abuse of power for so long. Of course the answer is because the G.O.P. made it so. Unbelievable!
7
How is dangling pardons to people already found guilty of crimes not a crime in itself? Is this not another count of obstruction of Justice that Mr. Trump is committing in plain view? I think so, and hopefully somewhere down the line so will a jury.
26
Re Senator Lee's objection to adding another branch to our government: with the far right in control of all current branches of government, I would not dismiss somebody exercising the 'check and balance' function our founders promised.
With a bootless narcissist in the White House, a feckless Congress licking up the orange stain he leaves behind him everywhere, and a SCOTUS stuffed with abusers, ideologues, or those who wear baseball caps with both right-wing logos, a special counsel like Robert Mueller don't sound very scary.
3
1. Trump's lawyers withholding / delaying submission of his answers to Mueller's questions is a maneuver designed to buy time to get the story straight since they do not believe that the answers are truthful.
2. Pardoning Manafort or any other ghoul in this nightmare is an obstruction of justice.
3. Trump is owned by Putin. Putin is reaping maximum ROI on his investment.
4. Mike Lee and McConnell are owned by Charles Koch. Charles too is reaping maximum ROI on his investment.
6
A pardon would be another example of obstruction.
3
@Bill
Either that, or excessive litigation -- which happens to be one of favorite tricks that that Trump picked up from his nefarious mentor, Roy Cohn.
2
"Mr. Manafort was convicted of financial fraud after a lengthy jury trial. He now faces at least 10 years in prison."
Manafort is a convicted criminal and Trump is dangling a pardon to keep him from revealing more criminal dealings that could incriminate Trump?
From Wikipedia:
"Witness tampering is the act of attempting to alter or prevent the testimony of witnesses within criminal or civil proceedings. Laws regarding witness tampering also apply to proceedings before the U.S. Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies."
This is upfront witness tampering, a crime.
5
Pardoning Manifort would be "interesting." With no jeopardy attached Manifort can be called to testify in trials and frankly he will have to tell the truth lest he be charged with perjury.
Does Trump really want to open that door? Does he even understand what a Manifort, or any other pardon for that matter, accomplishes for the prosecution? Probably not.
1
It really grates on me when our president repeats how these criminals 'are being treated so poorly' and that Mueller is 'ruining their lives'. He makes them out to be victims, as he does himself, when they made they choice to go against our laws, our values and our country. Trump and his criminal advisors are ruining our lives, by not upholding and defending the Constitution of these United States. They are NOT above the law, or we don't have a democratic republic, but an authoritarian regime like Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Venezuela or China. Our country is ruled by a set of laws and the Republican Party was supposed to be the 'law and order party', but I guess that was when it was convenient for them and helped them get tax cuts for themselves and their wealthy donors. Trump is all for law and order on the border. We won't be taking our expectation that our president follows our laws 'off the table' any time soon.
3
And you are surprised by this?
Beginning to wonder about the legislation to protect Mueller. Having a three-judge federal panel determine the ultimate fate of special counsels is a lot like the independent counsel's practice of reporting to a three-judge panel. Do we really want independent counsels again?
This is obstruction of an on-going investigation of the same kind that got Nixon impeached. Certainly, Mueller could release a report of all the information he has on Trump’s misbehavior in this regard and release it to Congress.
With all due respect, taking a pardon "off the table" would suggest a willingness to respect the rule of law. Publically dangling pardons can only be seen as a sign of guilt and a willingness to subvert Mueller's probe that in itself demonstrates obstruction of justice.
6
Here we go again. Donald Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth, trying to throw the public off his scent when everyone knows just how predictable his unpredictability and attempts to distract have become by now.
We also know that in the end he's going to pardon Paul Manafort, and not because of any "bro" love, but because he wants to save is own skin and Manafort knows where the bodies are buried.
So forget about Trump's tweets about the "witch hunt", the mainstream media and his plaintive cries of "NO COLLUSION!"
Mueller's wagons are circling, and it's time to cut to the chase.
1
It seems that some of these unlimited powers of the presidency need to be reviewed. How can a sitting president have the power to pardon a criminal who's tied to the president's own criminal investigation? Sure, the president could be impeached for abusing his pardoning power. However, there is no recourse for pardoned criminals being set free by a wholly corrupt president such as this one.
2
"The President of the United States has the power to issue pardons for crimes against the United States. He cannot pardon people for crimes against states."...
Of course, Robert Mueller knows this...
1
It just never stops. Every day I read about at least one more (and usually five or more) self-serving, gratuitous swipes at his "enemies" by this man who evidently is actually the real "President of the United States of America."
No doubt, I have become so solidly convinced of the rot at Trump's core that I can hardly be objective about anything the man says or does. But please.....please explain to me how otherwise decent people (at least I've always thought they were decent people) can ignore or somehow rationalize what this man does. No one in a leadership position in any community I am aware of - no alderman, no commissioner, no mayor, no dogcatcher - would ever be given license to do and say what Trump does and says repeatedly every single day. Honestly and sincerely, I simply do not understand what has happened to people.
13
@John
What's happened is, 51% (as of the 2016 election that put this "president" into office) of the U.S. consists of honest, decent, intelligent, sane, tolerant and hardworking people. People who know the difference between right and wrong, and who would, and do, put it all on the line to protect the U.S. Constitution, our fragile Republic, and the rule of law. I know precisely what the other 49% is because I have many of them in my family, and I know their like-minded friends. They are quick to evade taxes. They don't file tax returns. They'd run the other way if the country was attacked. They spend their entire life railing against the "socialism" and "communism" that they think is rife in the U.S. gov't. They start businesses that, when they fail (as they inevitably do), leave their creditors holding the bag to the tune of 100's of thousands of $. They come equipped with substandard intelligence, and substandard education. They know nothing, and don't wanna' know nuthin'. They scream when obliged to pay $1 on Social Security tax, and yet, they are very eager to collect Social Security benefits when they retire. They, as I, maybe you, and many of us, wouldn't be alive today but FDR, who they label a communist. When you try to tease-out the logic behind the opinions they hold, you get a spew of vitriol with more internal inconsistencies and holes than Swiss cheese. I'm more worried than I ever was when Nixon was in office. It's a bleak situation.
5
"Senator Mike Lee, Republican of Utah, who stopped proponents’ efforts to move the measure to the floor on Wednesday, said it would make special counsels so powerful that they would constitute “a de facto fourth branch of government.”"
Protecting an appointed prosecutor for being fired for other than good cause makes the position a fourth branch of the government? That's news. But not surprising from Mr. Tea Party.
https://www.salon.com/2017/06/17/mike-lees-bad-history-utah-senators-book-is-an-ignorant-hodgepodge-concocted-to-justify-the-modern-gop/
7
The pardon for these trilobites ends at the entrance of state courts. Hellllooo New York state attorney general.
5
Manafort is a total fool. He cannot escape his illegal actions to be prosecuted in State courts. He will go to jail for certain.
He is clearly angling for a Trump pardon, but Trump would be a fool to grant it. Once Manafort is pardoned, he has no 5th Amendment defense for himself. He could be subpoenaed to testify again, and could be convicted for perjury again. Would Trump pardon him a second time?
Nevertheless, Trump is willing to dangle the pardon in return for Manafort's perjury. Have we ever had such a corrupt criminal in the White House?
9
Isn't dangling the pardon itself an "obstruction of justice"? Clearly Trump must be aware of how this would reasonably be interpreted by Manafort, with the latter clearly in a position to harm or help the president; I don't see how any judge would find a reasonable probability/suspicion that the president is trying to influence a witness. Especiallh given Michael Cohen's revelations yesterday about negotiatons with Russia over a Trump tower in Moscow deep ino the 2016 campaign, Trump knows Manafort testimony could devataste Trump. Isn't this clear abuse of pardon powers for private benefit, indeed for the commission of a crime?
Especially as impeachment is merely the equivalent of a presidential indictment (i.e., warranted on the mere reasonable suspicion of a crime), not a conviction, how can this fact set not result in impeachment?
I suspect we are in for a very wild ride.
1
oops. "I don't see how any judge could *not* find..."
1
As Americans we have to understand that this is all part of a drastic change since Donald Trump became president. By refusing to protect Mr. Mueller’s team's investigation into foreign intervention in our democracy the GOP has shown we have one political party, that no longer believes in the rule of law. This is a stain that the GOP will NEVER wash off.
7
Prosecutorial abuse? You're kidding.....
Since when is pleading guilty prosecutorial abuse?
And being convicted by a jury--is that prosecutorial abuse.
I'll place good money on the fact that our idiotic president can't even explain what "McCarthyism" means.
6
It's time for states to begin additional prosecution.
3
Saturday night massacre in plain site and more drip, drip, drip every day.
6
Pardon for what? Tax evasion, money laundering, financial fraud?
A Manafort pardon addresses what injustice? Or, what relief from having already been punished enough?
Trump should not grant this pardon. Even if allowed under the broad Constitutional power.
5
Neither is impeachment.
1
Dear GOD, how I miss Senator Ted Cruz's impassioned intoning of the word "lawless" against President Obama.
Ted, Ted, Ted! Where's your preacher voice? We could be having a thrill a minute from you here!
4
Merely saying that Trump may consider such a thing as the pardon of a witness against him is SOOOOO obstruction of justice and witness tampering! It is difficult to understand how such an absurdly blatant felony can possibly be ignored.
It is challenging to live in a nation governed by organized crime.
9
If a pardon does in fact occur, this would be a sad day for the American people.
6
Manafort's crimes likely dwarf those of Trump. Why else would Trump be so obsessed with Mueller? As with Kashoggi, Trump will never admit criminal wrong doing regardless of the evidence. Something is seriously wrong with the man's DNA.
It would be best for the Mueller investigation to drag out a bit longer since it is only 2 years until 2020. Perhaps the pardon issue, as well as presidential immunity, will then be off the table so Trump can be brought to justice. History may well treat the Denier-in-Chief as though Nixon were but a petty thief.
2
Funny of the president to allude to McCarthyism since his lawyer and mentor was the late Roy Cohn, the driving force behind "McCarthyism" and Senator McCarthy's chief strategist.
Oh, now that I think of it, didn't the president share that attorney with John Gotti?
9
@vonricksoord
Good point.
1
He was asked the question and answered. Far different from making an affirmative statement.
1
I do not understand how the American people could tolerate a pardon for this self-serving, criminal, conman, Surely the pardon and the acceptance of the pardon by the Amercian public would demonstrate the absolute moral bankrupty of the nation.
3
Elitist, Don is at it again.
Everyone gets their day in court. That's how the US insures that both sides are heard.
Using pardons to create what you think is justice means that you don't want light shining too brightly on your past deeds. Pardons let you avoid public airing of truth and let you pay off co-conspirators who will shut-up upon request.
6
We should all encourage DJT to pardon this 8 time convicted felon, who cheated us hardworking American taxpayers out of tens of milions of dollars with decades of lies, tax fraud, money laundering and treasonous activity against american interests while acting as a foreign agent.
Manafort and Trump....two peas in a pod.
God save us all.
6
Trump’s continuing assertion that Manafort was treated poorly suggests that Trump views crimes like tax evasion as business as usual. Little doubt that Mueller has Trump’s tax returns, so ....
7
Why would Trump take a pardon off the table, indeed? He has gotten away with everything so far. Why not keep pushing his luck?
That’s the thing so many people refused to see about Trump back in 2016. Whereas most politicians have certain limits if for no other reason than they don’t think they can get away with it, Trump sees no lines that he cannot cross. And each time he crosses a supposedly uncrossbale line, he is rewarded rather than punished. A few Republicans will tut-tut him. New York Times will run some luke-warm op-ed talking about “our norms.” (And for the sake of “balance,” some apologist saying what Trump did was no big deal.) Then nothing...
So he just keeps crossing more lines. So why not one more line? Why not use the power of pardon to give a cronie a get out of jail free card and shield himself?
3
As anti-Trump democrat, I can't believe I invoke the word 'impeachment' with a sense of anxiety, trepidation, as impeaching Trump has been a kind of fantasy of mine since he was inaugurated. But suddenly today, I have the foreboding sense of a wish fulfilled bringing pain as much unpleasantness as delight: it will be UGLY, & we must brace ourselves.
Although I thought the emoluments clause (Trump Hotel, refusal to divest etc.) was Trump's Achilles heal (i.e., impeachment 'ammunition'), signaling to Manafort that the latter can reasonably hope for a pardon (Trump laying groundwork by attempting to discredit the prosecution as malicious), crosses clearly into obstruction of justice. It's clear witness tampering, as Manafort will base his testimony on the expectation Trump fed him. A lawyer acting that way would be disbarred; Trump has clearly abused his office to use pardon power to influence testimony, which is to say, obstruct justice. The emoluments case was a "philosophical" one about removing a shady, incompetent huckster whose presidency is an electoral fluke, perhaps a technicality pragmatically invoked to correct that "fluke." But (not so subtly) signaling to Manafort that if he plays ball, the Prez will "have his back," dangling the pardon at Manafort, is a Nixonian assault on the rule of law that we simply cannot have in the White House if our system, institutions, & democracy are to keep their integrity.
3
With every tweet, rant and threat, Trump broadcasts his desire and intent to bend all institutions of the Republic to serve only him in direct violation of the Constitution and oath of office. His vicious assaults on the justice system, judges, political opponents, the free press and basic facts are but a few examples. His direct abuses of power to subvert the Mueller investigation are just starting and will likely include pardons of witnesses and co-conspirators to protect himself. His direct abuses of power to enrich himself and his family are more extant.
Do we have to wait until he acts so blatantly on his stated goals the Republic is permanently hobbled? Does a rabid dog need to bite someone before it is contained?
Every day confirms the once fringe view Trump needs to be impeached and removed from office now.
3
The mere fact that Trump dangles the possibility of pardoning his criminal servants like Manafort (now apparently guilty of perjury to boot!) shows his utter disdain for the laws of our land and his utter contempt for the rule of law.
And this is a blatant attempt to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation and to obstruct justice.
Time for Trump himself to be indicted, tried, found guilty of his manifest crimes, and sentenced to a long long jail term in a Federal Penitentiary. Jared and Ivanka can share the next cell too.
11
Too bad for Trump there will be no pardon on the table for him. Tick, tock ...
7
I pay less and less attention to what Trump says. His words are like paint thrown against a canvas. It is what he does that matters. Pardons for everyone for Christmas? Probably Christmas 2020.
The fox guarding the henhouse comes to mind.
Such a pardon would be a signal to all others that they should also expect pardons for any and all future crimes that they might commit to further advance trump's agenda. After all, it's the least anyone could do for a leader like the Donald who, himself, would love to punch untold numbers in the face and throw their bodies into the nearest dumpster, not to mention that shooting he has long planned for the middle of Fifth Avenue.
There is a lot in this article, stuff about Corsi, Stone, Trump attacking Mueller, Congress protecting Mueller, Assange, etc.. But the main point is in the title and first paragraphs. It can be summarised as follows:
It seems the mafia boss may have given a promise to the potential stool pigeon to just shut up and don't say anything to the judge. Afterwards, the mafia boss finds a way to keep the stool pigeon out of prison, thus fulfilling his promise... and the godfather continues his work.
This is not just Little Italy in New York. This is America.
1
Why not indeed, especially if your intent is to obstruct justice. Mr. Trump's behavior from the very outset is of a guilty man trying to cover up evidence of his involvement in illegal activities both before and after the election. With his constant attacks on Mueller, a man who unlike Trump has honorably served his country and has a impeccable reputation and is in fact a Republican, Mr. Trump has tried to frame the debate in such a way to suggest he is innocent. His constant mentioning of pardons and giving of pardons such as for Joe Apario clearly demonstrates his desire to buy the witholding or falsifying of testimony. If as has been stated by many before, he was innocent, he would let the Mueller investigation proceed without interference. Instead he has suggested that the FBI, the department of justice, federal prosecutors and investigators are all liars and are corrupt, unlike the pure, ethical man he pretends to be. Only he is telling the truth.
for those of you who buy this, i have some beach front lots for sale for you at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
3
Imagine… the absurdities of it all, when ‘deep state’ conspirators aren’t spreading their preposterous innuendo and lies, via their coconspirators with the mainstream news media. We’re subject to the disingenuous rhetoric of Erick Swalwell and his socialist pal Adam Schiff hawking their ‘deep state’ neo-nonsensical mumbo-jumbo.
Imagine… the hypocrisies of it all; Herr Mueller was appointed special counsel a Consigliere for ‘deep state’ conspirators attempting a Presidential putsch. Talk about socialist dreamers gone the way of a ‘deep state’ lawyer in-search of a crime to protect the sorted turf of ‘deep state’ collaborates.
Imagine… when not being wowed by rhetorical wastrels regurgitating their politically correct lies daily. You’re left wondering why the righteous Mueller’s of this world looked the other way regarding Hillary’s botched attempts to obliterate her emails while extorting funds from foreign demigods for her so-called philanthropic origination. You have to ponder who is the Grand Poobah among these exalted putsch wunderkinds.
Wait until Don Jr. is indited. That pardon will come before the ink dries.
3
Why is dangling the prospect of a pardon for Manafort not an obstruction of justice? Trump is suggesting that he could protect Manafort if for lying to federal investigators about a crime that might well implicate himself. He really ought to be called on this for what it is: Tampering with the justice system to cover his own malfeasance.
15
Just remember, Trump’s party increased its hold in the senate with this garbage constantly unfolding. There are no surprises here. Many people in this country simply place no value on the rule of law and justice. Trump is counting on them.
11
This is so sad. A blatant example of the shear stupidity and hubris of this guy just goes on and on and on. It makes one avoid saying or thinking “can it get any worst?”
1
"Why would I take it off the table?"
Well Donald, because it might send a message that you actually respect the law and care about justice. It's better that you leave it on the table. It isn't like we don't know how you feel anyway.
4
Regarding a pipeline from Assange/Wikileaks to the Trump campaign: Nigel Farage, Trump's UK bestie, was seen leaving the Ecuadorean Embassty, where Assange is holed up. He was jocular, as always, and noncommital about why he was there. Ho ho ho.
4
Trump,
Duh! You would take a pardon for Manafort off the table because any pardon would be grounds for impeachment which would occur so fast it would make your head spin.
Which begs the Question: If you are so innocent as you claim (not that it in itself joins the other 5500+ proven lies you've uttered), then why do you care what special prosecutor Mueller does or finds out?
Mueller is a threat because you ARE guilty and your time is rapidly running out. It's obvious to the casual observer you are financially beholden to Putin and the Saudis. Now Deutsch Bank, through their assist, you've hidden your assets overseas, is being investigated. You are going down.
4
I'm no lawyer, but is this a circumstance where a sensible politician says that he has no comment during an on-going investigation.
By saying what he said, is he not undermining the investigation through witness tampering?
I would appreciate a lawyer's comment.
3
It seems to me that attorneys representing Manafort and Trump will find it very difficult to avoid being sucked into legal jeopardy given the ongoing open and notorious conspiracy to obstruct justice by their clients. How can they credibly claim that they are not part of the conspiracy since they have obviously facilitated communications between Manafort and trump in violation of Manafort's plea agreement.
6
Why would he take it off the table? How about because it would look a lot less as if he were trying to bribe a former associate into lying to protect the Trump family crime syndicate? If he can't understand how bad the optics of a pardon are, he is too stupid to be allowed to keep squatting in the Oval Office.
11
In other words, "sorry, your little laws don't apply to me and my friends. We lie together and are trying to upturn the American legal system for our own greed".
#Worstpresidentever
10
"Witness tampering is the act of attempting to alter or prevent the testimony of witnesses within criminal or civil proceedings. Laws regarding witness tampering also apply to proceedings before the U.S. Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies. To be charged with witness tampering in the United States, the attempt to alter or prevent testimony is sufficient. There is no requirement that the intended obstruction of justice be completed." (2014 Justice.gov)
Telling someone who is being investigated by the feds that you might pardon them is the very definition of witness tampering, and it is a felony.
12
Trump says Pardon of Manafort is not off the table while Mueller says obstruction of justice is definitely on the table.
1
Con men, liars, criminals, thieves and enemies of the state all operating in plain sight. Wake up, America.
7
Pardoning Manafort? Of course! The same as pardoning himself since conviction for collusion runs through Manafort. But there will be consequences and I think it is only a question of time when Trump will be charged, and then we will see whether the country's legal system is intact or whether we have entered the realm that Germany did after the Night of the Long Knives when the law was in the hands of Hitler and his cronies.
1
Message to Trump: Impeachment isn't off the table either.
5
What would a Manafort pardon buy Trump at this point?
Manafort has already given Trump every hint of inside scoop he could glean from his erstwhile "cooperation" with Mueller. And a pardon now would not stop Manafort from disclosing Trump dirt. Indeed it could force Manafort into it since those pardoned have no 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination (given they no longer suffer legal jeopardy) and are thus subject to subpoena.
Trump is already milking the prospect of a pardon for everything it's worth as a platform to attack Mueller and his "gang of angry Dems" for supposedly leaning on Manafort to lie. He has nothing to gain by following through beyond signaling to other likely confederates he will take care of them if they similarly refuse to cooperate, and that carries obstruction-of-justice risks he would be crazy to take on.
But of course that hasn't stopped him before.
When will impeachment be a dish on the table? It's hard to imagine how much more sickening this can become.
4
I have to imagine that Vladimir is just sitting in his chair shaking his head at how unbelievably stupid Trump is. By now, if he were in Trump's shoes, he would have issued marshal law and incarcerated Mueller and his entire team. Rosenstein would have been dragged beaten into court and sentenced to Siberia. And all of the Russian news would be heralding these events as a coup that was averted.
1
“I’m telling you this is McCarthyism. We are in the McCarthy era. This is no better than McCarthy.” loudly insists our titular president, who cut his teeth under the tutelage of Roy Cohn--McCarthyism's chief engineer and counsel.
3
As FDR once said of the rich and powerful while campaigning in 1936---- "they consider the government a mere appendage of their own affairs!"
5
Trump can't take the pardon off the table until he checks with Putin.
1
Why should Trump take the potential of giving a pardon to Manafort off the table? The answer is simple and has numerous reasons. First is that if Trump is innocent as he says then he would not threaten to take any actions that impede or influence the direction of the investigation. Second is that if Trump was an ethical person he would not use the pardon for political and personal purposes in order to protect and control people. That is not why our founding fathers provided the office of the president with the power to pardon. Finally Trump would not consider a pardon for Manafort who was found guilty by a jury of numerous crimes including tax evasion worth millions of dollars. To even consider providing a pardon makes fools of all honest citizens who pay their taxes especially since Manafort has not shown remorse for his crimes.
Sadly Trump, many republicans and a good portion of Americans don't understand this.
I'm no lawyer, but doesn't someone have to be convicted of something before he can be pardoned?
in the case of Manafort, there are already convictions, but I assume they might be appealed (if he doesn't run out of people who will pay his lawyers), so that situation is still fluid, and there are almost surely more charges to be filed.
other people in this sorry cast have convictions and slap on the wrist penalties.
still others in President Trump's orbit have yet to be convicted of anything.
but at this point, isn't the President clearly implying these people are guilty? isn't his weighing in an attempt to influence the outcomes (I won't say collusion, but what about obstruction?).
he's telescoping: I'm pardoning you whether you are guilty or not, and of course that's because I myself am not guilty of anything, especially collusion. no collusion, folks! nothig to see here, just like my tax returns.
Not only is a pardon for Manafort not off the table, we'd be fools not to believe it had been offered under the table for many months now in exchange for Manafort's promise to withhold from Mueller any evidence implicating the president.
Mind you, Mueller can't be too surprised Manafort lied to him or that his lawyers have been working in lockstep with Trump's lawyers to thwart his investigation. Manafort might well have more to fear from his co-conspirators than he does from the justice system.
To all but the most ignorant or partisan of observers, the dimensions of this debacle have become so enormous, obvious and overwhelming that Watergate pales in comparison. But where Nixon folded his tent quickly in the face of much less substantial and incriminating evidence against him, it is clear Trump intends to go down swinging.
There is almost nothing he will not do or say - or press his associates to do or say - to stave off impeachment or criminal charges. And it is that desperation which makes him such an unpredictable, unstable, dangerous president while he continues to occupy the White House.
1
"Take it off the table" (as if he's already in an adversarial relationship and/or negotiating a plea agreement with the US DOJ)? I think those words probably reveal more about Trump's true motive and level of culpability in this than anything else he's tipped us off to through his nearly 2 years of tweeting about this.
1
If Trump doesn't know why he should take a "Pardon" of Manafort's criminal activity off the table that is just further proof that Trump himself is guilty of being unable to understand right and wrong and is thus unqualified to be POTUS.
Can you explain why it is wrong to impeach the trump crime family?
What’s up with the republicans and why is this not raising the ire of every citizen?
5
Mr. Trump is now handing out "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards. Thus encouraging people like Mr. Manafort to clam up rather than cooperate with the investigation. An investigation that might well implicate Mr. Trump himself. How is this not obstruction of justice?
4
Meanwhile, Trump tweets pictures of the faces of numerous upstanding citizens -- including Mueller, Rosenstein, and Bill and Hillary Clinton -- behind bars for their supposed treason.
If this president gets his way, his perceived enemies will be in prison and his friends, including Manafort, will be free and able again to reap millions from Russians while they continue to labor to undermine our nation.
We risk everything if we don't take Trump's tyrant tantrums seriously.
1
"Trump Talks of Pardon for Manafort. 'Why would I take it off the table?'” the president said.
The better question is, why would a pardon be on the table, at all? Was Manafort not found guilty by a jury of his peers? Did he not plead guilty to other charges? What has he demonstrated that suggests he should be spared the consequences of his crimes? Just why would a pardon be considered? Oh, that's right. Donald Trump is a transactional president.
86
@Reasoned And Rational
Let's stop fretting about what Trumpy says and focus on what he does. That's what got Democrats to take over the house. That's what will get them to take over the Senate and the presidency in 2020. Issues concerning the environment, health care, international affairs/deals etc should be making the headlines. His ramblings are either frenetic or designed to distract, or both.
7
@Reasoned And Rational
Because Manafort was politically and selectively targeted so that he could be forced to lie for Mueller.
Meanwhile all of the Democrats and their Deep State operatives who broke the law by spying on a political campaign and colluding with Russians to influence an election -- i.e., the fake anti-Trump dossier -- run free.
Either Manafort should be pardoned or all the Democrats should be prosecuted. I'll take either result.
@Jake Barnes
One does not plead guilty and get convicted by a jury if "selectively targeted."
6
"He said that prosecutors for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, had poorly treated Mr. Manafort, who was convicted of eight felonies this summer and pleaded guilty to two more."
So alleged felon Manafort has been 'treated poorly' but apparently the torture, dismemberment, and murder of an innocent Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi has tacitly been condoned by this president and his advisers and Congress.
Dirty deeds done dirt cheap have become quite expensive under this farce of an administration.
I'm beginning to think not just obstruction of justice, but simply no justice at all.
105
@JessiePearl
You are so right. In Trump's world decent people are criminals and criminals are decent people. A topsy-turvy view of reality. The ranting Neo-Nazis and murderous racists of Charlottesville contained many "fine people". Kim , Putin, Duterte, Erdogan, MBS--- he is comfortable with; he loves Kim, and probably some of the others. A perverted mind that does not see what really is, and when he thinks about himself he goes completely whacko----highly intelligent genius who knows more about warfare than the generals, more about global warming than professional climatologists, more about hidden events than the Intelligence Community. The big-gutted person whose guts tell him all he needs to know. He does not have to read anything. If he had his way, he would pardon all the Nazis, all authoritarian leaders who murder , all those destined for Hell---and he would jail all those trying to make the world a better and safer place.
Something is terrible wrong in a democracy that gives this man the right to pardon and allows him the bully pulpit to condemn.
12
Having been convicted Manafort is no longer ‘alleged’ anything. He IS a felon. Tried, convicted, & on other charges admitted.
7
It’s not America first, it’s Donald first. Donald first, Donald forever, at least in his own mind. He’d pardon Satan if Satan would lie for him.
How about this? Donald busting lumps of coal in beautiful Fort Leavenworth for the rest of his god forsaken days with his clan.
12
Pardon nothing!
1
Obviously, Trump got to Manafort.
2
It's time for Rod Blagojevich of Illinois to have his sentence commuted. A commutation leaves the conviction intact but wipes out the punishment.
With the sentence commuted he can't own a gun, run for public office or vote. He can't practice law.
He doesn't need to be pardoned, just commuted. Just commute his sentence and him go home to his family and dye his hair black again.
If this is nonpartisan, a Republican President can commute a Democratic ex-governor.
What a criminal mafia. Fully capable of operating outside the law. Presidential pardons at their disposal. It's disgusting. Is this America? We are the strongest nation on earth? Our Democracy is a beacon for all mankind? Expletive deleted.
7
“It’s actually very brave,” Mr. Trump said. “I’m telling you this is McCarthyism. We are in the McCarthy era. This is no better than McCarthy.”
And who would know McCarthyism better than the "man" mentored by McCarthy's right hand, Roy Cohn? Oh, the irony.
14
MEMO
To: "President" Donald J. Trump
From: Concerned Reader
Given your past performance as a serial liar, I quadruple dare you to pardon ALL of your criminal associates who have been indicted thus far.
Have a day!
Yours Constitutionally,
Concerned Reader.
P.S. Thank you New York Times for continuing your coverage of this great threat to U.S. freedom and democracy.
5
Russia if you are listening please expose Trump and sons and daughter and family and friends collusion, collaboration, conspiracy and collaboration with Russian military intelligence aka GRU, Russian domestic intelligence aka FSB, Russian foreign intelligence aka SVR, Russian mobsters, Russian oligarchs, Julian Assange and Wikileaks in order to get Donald Trump, Sr. elected President of the United States.
You can have Donald and Third Lady Melania Trump as your entertainment prizes to act as your dummy pawn pet puppets. They can play Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, Nicholas II and Alexandra Romanoff or Juan and Eva Peron. Donald loves to play golf. Melania loves to play mannequin.
8
The NYT has never gotten over the fact that Trump called them the failing NYT. You say things like, "Though Mr. Trump is given to loose promises that go unfulfilled..." No, NYT, Trump makes and keeps promises. And when he throws things out in his tweets, this is to cast aspersions on organizations like CNN or NYT, two anti-Trump organs, and/or influence this or that policy. You call him a moron but he is way ahead of all of you 'good-thinking, moral people' that spend all your time trying to stymie him rather than report on the good he is doing for the country.
1
Talked to any GM employees today? Wonder what they say about his making good on promises? Besides, all he is really doing is making the rich richer, the poor poorer, & the middle class heading down to be poor. People who think like you will be the ones surprised when the next tax law passed takes 95% of your earnings for taxes to be used to feather his nest, then the other 5% for the things taxes normally pay for. Can you say Penniless?
right!
for example, I'm sure Sheldon Adelson is happy. people who have a big portfolio of coal mining stocks they thought they could never unload are probably happy. most of the members of Mar-a-Lago are pretty happy. anti-abortion fundamentalists are happy, at least with the latest Justices. Sherrif Joe is happy. MBS is happy. all sorts of people who needed their hatreds validated are relieved, if not exactly happy. the NRA is happy. health insurance companies and quacks who can make more money with a weakened ACA are happy. extractive businesses are as happy as their usual dispepsia allows. lots of high priced lawyers in DC and NY are raking in the fees, which is always good. Wall Street was happy but then they made a correction and became unhappy, only to perk up after the holiday.
let's see, did I Ieave anybody out?
Carefull Mr. Mueller we know what rats do when cornered.
1
Getting fired for cause is a fourth branch of government? Right... The statement makes me wish Mike Lee were an at-will employee. He'd be packing his desk right now under my management. Bye-bye now.
Anyway, Trump is dangling pardons but he can't actually pardon anyone unless he survives the Mueller investigation. The suggestion reeks of witness tampering and obstruction. However, without actually pardoning anyone, the accusations don't carry much weight. Like the old crime movies, a mobster telling you to watch your step isn't technically incriminating unless you fall down the stairs.
Lawyer's discussing the possibility of pardons while their client is under criminal indictment on the other hand is most definitely witness tampering. To have the President discuss the possibility is publicly self-indicting. The lawyers involved are legally vulnerable. If the hint topic was even discussed in abstract, they should have reported directly to the FBI. Attorney-client privilege is not going to stand well in an overt obstruction case.
As for Jeff Flake, I won't hold my breath. He might force the protection bill to the floor. However, if history is any indicator, he will force the bill to the floor only so we can see it fail. Jeff Flake is an albatross around the American public's neck. I'd rather have a vote than no vote but Flake has developed a reputation for providing moral shade while Republicans do the wrong thing.
“Why would I take it off the table?”
Because Trump's lawyers will be informing Trump that pardoning Manafort would support an obstruction of justice claim against Trump.
1
That Trump is talking about pardoning Manafort is not surprising. That he is calling Mueller's investigation a witch hunt and comparing it to McCarthyism is no surprise. What is a surprise is that Trump has not yet followed through on his threats to fire Mueller. Has Trump no sense of decency?
One would think that a pardon could not be "on the table" until after a conviction. Doesn't a person have to be convicted of something before he/she can be pardoned?
Trump appears to be using his power to pardon to offset Meuller's power to prosecute to deter Manafort from cooperating with Meuller.
That is truly amazing. Nixonian
I guess Trump's "gut" is telling him to say these things.
Maybe a better question for trump would be Why is a pardon for Manafort be on the table.
1
President Trump should realize that impeachment isn't off the table, either. Clearly, given what we already know, a presidential pardon of Manafort would constitute obstruction of justice.
1
The President of the United States just said that obstruction of justice is "not off the table".
Let that sink in.
17
A high crime is one that can only be done by someone in a unique position of authority, which is political in character, who does things to circumvent justice. --Wiki
Article 2 Section 4: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
1
I wonder if Mueller is trying to provoke El Trumpo into issuing a pardon as a way to charge him ????? Clearly it is a self serving act and it seems obvious Manafort was conspiring to assist him in obstructing the Special prosecutor. I'm thinking a pardon would be a lot like taking the money after having agreed to do something illegal for it. You don't get to keep the money I'm thinking the president using his office corruptly makes everything he does in that office illegitimate.
One thing is certain. Mr. Trump honestly sees himself as being above the law. But it is the law's duty to disabuse him of that very anti-democratic belief. The law-of-the-land is just that; no one is above it. Mr. Manafort is a pompous criminal. Pardoning criminals is what happens in banana republics to the horror of the democratic world. It can't be allowed to happen in America. The President is not God.
Trump styles himself as what God would be if he had money.
The trump swamp just keeps getting bigger. Now his attorneys are conspiring with Manaforts.
3
To show the Republican's hypocrisy, ask yourself, what would their response be if president Obama had said "... a pardon is not off the table for Hillary Clinton..." if she had pleaded guilty to the email non-issue. Are you a Republican? How would you reply?
1
Why take it off the table? I don't know, maybe to give yourself and your administration at least a fig leaf of cover against the growing likelihood that both will be revealed as so compromised by money deals with Putin and Russian mafia/oligarchs that you are effectively their puppet? That might be a first motivation, no doubt there are others.
Ok. Seriously. For real?
How is this not obstruction of justice--especially in light of the coordination of information after he became a government witness?
How is this not witness tampering?
Just go ahead and try it, Trump. Try it.
Because let me tell you something, even your supporters have a limit and this may be it. I was at a gathering of Trump relatives a few weeks ago and this was a deal breakers for them. The only reason they stand by Trump is their belief that Manafordt acted on his own--something becoming increasingly difficult to believe given Trump's own positions on Putin and his behavior at recent summits.
So yeah. Go ahead Trump, try it. Just try it.
1
You go ahead and try to "pardon" your corrupt brethren, Con Don. WE THE PEOPLE - average people across America - do not pardon any of you and WE will not let it stand.
You all will pay for robbing us blind and trying to destroy OUR United States of America. If OUR Justice Department has also gotten so corrupt that they won't stop you WE will.
That's no a threat - it's a promise from the hundreds of millions of people who have marched, demonstrated, sued and taken every other non-violent action to stop you. Bank on it.
20
A pardon would be an abomination(!), an absolutely detestable action by the most detestable and dishonest president. How can you pardon a man who broke the law innumerable times, offended our founding fathers by helping a foreign country to interfere with our elections, then blatantly lie to federal officials after agreeing to cooperate with them. This man deserves no mercy; the only one less deserving is the man currently occupying the White House.
159
@AJB
Republicans have a tendency of pardoning people who are thugs and criminals of the lowest order. GW also pardoned Scooter Libby who blew cover of a CIA agent. Don't hold your breathe. DJT will do everything he can to destroy this nation.
13
@AJB The primary abomination is that Donakl J. Trump was elected POTUS and remains capable of continuing to besmirch the government of the United States of America.
9
@AJB it would also be outright obstruction of justice. Even Trump’s mere suggestion of it is obstruction, which makes him impeachable.
3
And who's gonna pardon you Mr. President?
2
@Jgrau
Mike Pence will pardon Trump like Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon.
President Trump has already said he believes he can pardon himself.
of course, he may not have believed it at the time, he may or may not believe it now, may change his mind in the future, and generally lies or doesn't know what he's talking about but directs salvoes at his gullible base or their short term impact.
in short: pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
trump thinks he is a king or a god & can do anything he wants. Why is he allowed to continue to destroy the government of this country? He will pardon Manafort because he can without repercussions before Jan. 1st.
The arrogance of the man is beyond belief. He honestly believes he is smarter than anyone on the planet. He doesn't trust the agencies of the government that have supplied the past presidents with intelligence information. When will his arrogance & stupidity bring him down? How much longer before the people see through him for the fraud he is?
13
ah ... so a suspect pays off a witness ... and this is not crime because ???
4
Go back and look at Trump’s remark about shooting someone on Fifth Avenus and not losing any loyalists. He was not making a joke; he really meant it. He believes he is above the law and he so firmly believes this that he is now telegraphing future crimes, believing that he is absolutely untouchable and that laws don’t apply to him. He cares NOTHING for our country. He cares only for himself.
He thinks he’ll pardon anyone who could implicate him, run for and win a second term, lie every day, put cronies into his Cabinet and enrich himself and his family while in office. He’ll continue to protect Russians and Saudis no matter what they do. He is completely entangled with them and depends on them for money.
He is so aberrant that we keep trying to make sense of him insofar as normal human behavior. He is not remotely normal, in fact he is a sociopath, and a madman. It is the Republicans who should be ashamed. They have supported and enabled this criminal to destroy so much that WAS great about America. Until someone steps up to put a stop to this, he’s going to get worse and worse. This is only the beginning.
26
I wonder what would happen to any one of the common American people if we would have tried half the stuff Manafart has? I have to take an annual ethics training every year per my job. What a farce.
11
"President Trump said on Wednesday that a presidential pardon for his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort is “not off the table,” casting him and other subjects of the inquiry as victims of prosecutorial abuse."
I think that's called "Witness Tampering". Ask Dick Nixon....
11
Lawless. The most lawless President in my lifetime. He had all 3 branches of power, and all they have to show for it is a high income leaning tax cut, a trade war, abuse of power and juvenile and dangerous attacks on all the social fabrics and norms of America in my opinion. His base has been scammed, his family are grifters. Lawless.
28
Yeah. Right. Criminal pardons criminals. What would you expect? Or better: what would you do against that?
Nobody is above the law? Don't make me laugh.
4
Trump’s method is to obstruct justice so brazenly so as to daw doubt in the whole idea of justice. He used this tactic repeatedly and the result is chaos.
It is time to call it what is it— the President is a crook
5
Trump takes out the carrot and his mules walk forward. Sad.
3
Nixon was impeached for much less! Donald has been spitting at our laws and the presidency is now a joke.
Warning to McConnell and the Republicans in the Senate: You're next! We, the People WILL vote you out of the Senate! You are complicit with Donald's abuse of power simply by your refusal to hold Donald accountable!
Donald's disapproval number is at....60%! You'd think the GOP controlled Senate would reign him in! What does Putin have on these senators?!
4
Why does Trump get away with disaster,
There is no skill of which he is master,,
By ignorance driven
By his base forgiven,
He slides down the slippery slope faster.
A pardon of crimes off the wall
That normally deeply appall
For Trump is no matter
He’s part of the batter
So he’ll heed the desperate call.
6
Of course the pardon of this convicted felon is on the table, because President Trump cares naught for the rule of law.
1
Another example of “tit for tat”.
years ago such wheelings and dealings
happened behind closed doors,
obvious only to those who really wanted to see.
now, they happen before our very eyes
as we stand awestruck, almost paralyzed in utter disbelief.
in france, "yellow vests" took to the streets against price hikes.
elsewhere, caravans move, hoping for better living conditions.
when will even more of us rise to ...
the occasion of making sure that government "of the people,
for the people, by the people shall not perish from the earth!"?
POTUS's unremitting efforts to denigrate, undermine and influence the Mueller investigation certainly give the appearance of someone working overtime to "obstruct justice".
Our president has a long, well documented career of philandering, fraud, stiffing creditors, and gaming the system for personal advantage. To even the most casual observer, it's should be clear that our Chief Exec is an impostor, incapable and unwilling to perform the duties of his office.
Having shed most of his advisors, the President now says his "...gut can tell him more than anybody else's brain can ever tell me". When will their leader's expressions of profound ignorance and delusion, force Republicans to own up to the incalculable damage he is doing to America and the world.
81
@Reed Erskine
When, indeed???
2
In answer to your question, Mr. Erskine, Mr. Trump is successfully diverting the public's attention from the GOP's ongoing implementation of its regressive party platform. (See the 54 page platform at https://gop.com/platform.)
Among other things, the platform includes the following:
1. A "pro-growth" (i.e., pro business) tax code.
2. Better negotiated trade agreements.
3. "Freeing financial markets" (i.e., essentially eliminating most banking regulation.)
4. Defending against an activist judiciary. (Doesn't apply to conservative activist judges, apparently.)
5. Opposing disclosure of financial donors and any restrictions on campaign contributions.
6. Nationwide firearm "reciprocity" laws (i.e., limiting states' and cities' ability to enact local gun control laws.)
7. A "human life" amendment to the Constitution (i.e., permanently overturn Roe v. Wade.)
8. A "New Era" in energy (i.e., fossil fuel development and production.)
And many others, including my favorite: "A good under-standing of the Bible being indispensable for the develop-ment of an educated citizenry, we encourage state legislatures to offer the Bible in a literature curriculum as an elective in American high schools."
When you see the extent to which they are successfully implementing this platform under Mr. Trump's cover, you realize they will support him to the bitter end. Hopefully, this is coming soon in the pending impeachment hearings following the release of the Mueller report.
2
If Trump was smart (ok, that idea is "off the table") he'd be talking to Pence about a pardon for himself. Then again, maybe Manafort has already implicated Pence for knowing about collusion the whole time. (Ah, that little charade with Flynn getting fired for "lying" to Pence was a good one.) So they both get impeached. Can you say President Pelosi?
17
Is this not obstruction of justice? Sending a message like this to Manafort?
6
Trump asks why should he "take it off the table". Did no one tell him that dangling a reward was part of the list of Nixon's impeachable offenses? Or, why should a pardon be 'on the table' for consideration anyway?
1
Mueller should do the honorable thing and admit that there never was anything to this Russian collusion thing, apologize for wasting all of our time, and go home.
1
@Kurt - This is quite funny. Best laugh I've had this week.
Disgraceful! Talk about a misuse of power and obstruction of justice! I hope his colleagues, especially Republican ones. in Congress instruct him that he faces impeachment and conviction by the Senate if he takes such a step. Also any truth that claims that Trump has about not being involved with or in the pocket of Putin go right out the window. Shameful
4
Senator Mike Lee, Republican of Utah, who stopped proponents’ efforts to move the measure to the floor on Wednesday, said it would make special counsels so powerful that they would constitute “a de facto fourth branch of government.”
5th branch of government if you count the NRA.
8
I have never seen anyone who acts more guilty of crimes than Donald Trump.
11
“I wouldn’t take it off the table,”
“Why would I take it off the table?”
At least "President T" is not referring to himself in the 3rd person.
From this "stable genius" of a President, that's really the best we can hope
2
“Table?” If a pardon is “on the table,” it is being offered and it’s context, by definition, makes it a bribe being dangled in exchange for services being rendered.
Lock him up! Yes, lock Trump up! After impeachment of course.
28
You might take it off the table, Trump, b/c pardoning Manafort would be an admission of guilt on his part. Your association with that man and the action of pardoning a convicted criminal further erodes the public’s TREMENDOUS lack of trust in your capacity to lead the country.
4
What is it going to take to stick an obstruction of justice charge against Donald Trump? He runs the government like a Mafia Don. How far down the rabbit hole is Congress - especially the Senate - going to allow him to take us?
And even a presidential pardon will not cast immunity to Manafort for indictments and charges in New York State. The southern district should throw the book at him, and thumb is prosecutorial nose at Trump.
4
Manafort is a Trump Team Player. He's not ratting out our Great Leader. He deserves a pardon. And may already have been promised it if he keeps his mouth shut. Now that the mid-terms are over.
“I wouldn’t take it off the table,” he said in an Oval Office interview with The New York Post. “Why would I take it off the table?”
Perhaps because you read a basic ethics textbook at some point in your life? Oh, no, I forgot, you don't read.
Perhaps because your parents raised you not to reward self-admitted and convicted felons? Oh, no, I forgot, what your parents did for you is give you $400 million dollars and demonstrate racism and cheating.
You would take it off the table because you are the president of the United States, and such a person does not condone criminal activity.
You would NOT take it off the table if you thought you were culpable in that activity and needed self-protection.
Very simple.
1
With friends like Trump who needs rule of law?
3
I support a pardon for Mr. Manafort. Worse criminals have been pardoned, so what difference would it make? Thank you.
2
take it off the table? he's waving it like a pom-pom.
2
If I wrote a screenplay or made a pitch about what has occurred in this cesspool of an administration and included just a scintilla of the daily nonsense that occurs, I would be laughed out of the room and never considered again.
Or would I?
2
"Why would I take it off the table?"
If Trump does not understand this, and his lawyers don't tell him, let me try to enlighten him.
Dangling a pardon to someone who is suspected of a crime that you yourself may be involved in is actually a clear example of obstruction of justice. And that is an impeachable offense. How do I know this? Because it is one of the reasons for impeachment for President Nixon listed in the records that were recently released to the public. If it is an impeachable offense for President Nixon, it also is an impeachable offense for Trump. But of course Trump is not Nixon. In fact, Trump is very much worse. For one, Nixon's crimes, at least the ones for which he was about to be impeached, did not involve meddling by a foreign country.
156
@Christiaan Hofman And Nixon had the good sense to resign.
15
@Christiaan Hofman
True, but had impeachment proceedings gone forward, Candidate Nixon's meddling in President Johnson's attempt to start peace negotiations in Vietnam would have come out - a potentially treasonous action.
10
@Christiaan Hofman Nice Try. But Trump is beyond enlightenment.
3
If Hilary was in office and pulled this, McConnell, the GOP establishment, and Fox News, and even Trump would be calling for her resignation ad nauseam.
Traitors, the lot of them, as they will be rightfully judged by future generations in the dustbins of history.
193
@Robert M
Apparently We the People aren't calling for his resignation loudly enough.
Does "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" ring a bell?
12
@Robert M History is written by the victors, and Trump has gotten away with everything so far. Whatever optimism the midterm results bring, Trump is still president and looks to remain so at least until 2020.
I hate to think our ethics has sunk so low.
Was the plan to use Manafort to learn what questions Muller was asking? Basically a inside man into the investigation. If Trump pardons Manafort, I would think that was the plan from the start.
7
Trump will pardon Manafort. There's no reason to believe that Trump will be removed from office, as his Republican enablers in the Senate will never allow the necessary votes. And, impeachment means nothing to Trump. He won't be chastised or shamed by impeachment. In fact, he'd wear it as a badge of honor.
1
Donny has the right to be peeved. Everyone knows that a dictator has the right to influence witnesses who might testify against him. Donny has declared he can pardon himself, which means he could have Mueller, Pelosi, anyone assassinated, so why shouldn't he be allowed to influence a witness?
The use of Presidential pardons to obstruct justice and the blocking of the senate bill to protect Mueller just goes to show how broken and corrupt our democracy really is. Sickening how President Trump and a large number of government officials turn a blind eye to truth, fairness and justice. The country cannot exist as a democracy when elected leaders collude to impede the truth. We have nothing to fear from so called enemies abroad for the enemies of the country reside in our government.
I am hoping that Mueller presents his findings sooner than later.
90
@A.A.F., Nixon at least had the sense to obstruct Justice in secret, knowing it was impeachable. tRump has done it in public! Congress already knows enough to begin impeachment proceedings.
1
Well, the pardon is a done deal.
The first order of business for the House on Jan. 3 has to be the impeachment of Donald J. Trump.
2
The timeline is clear:
1) Russia offers to help Trump by obtaining damaging material on Clinton;
2) Trump campaign contacts Wikileaks, in a "hands-off" transaction, to verify that Wikileaks would publish such;
3) Russia hacks into Democratic computers and steals emails, sends to Wikileaks, which publishes them;
4) Trump proclaims that Clinton was criminally negligent;
5) Special prosecutor uncovers this transaction trail;
6) Trump proclaims innocence of all persons acting on his behalf and that special prosecutor is persecuting them.
Need any more be said?
48
@New Jersey Consumer - Stanton
I'll ad this speculation: Russia hacks RNC, finds a treasure trove of bad deeds and decides to use as blackmail to enlist Republican congress to support Trump in his treasonous acts.
12
For a sitting president to dangle a pardon to a felon is clearly meant to obstruct justice and thwart the Mueller investigation. Obviously, the president has much to hide. No wonder he has so much contempt for the rule of law.
108
This article runs the day after an article and an op-ed questioning why Manafort didn't flip, why he lied to prosecutors.
This isn't rocket science. This is collusion.
8
A pardon should be off the table. We the people should make sure it is off the table. If we do not, then we do not deserve to live in a democracy. Our freedom needs to be fought for, and not just by the military.
1
It's time to take Trump off the table, and prosecute him for his criminality and for the denigration of the office he so odiously occupies.
3
By his comment Trump is admitting he is guilty like Manafort is and he does not care. He is a crime boss, he has his judge in place in the highest court of this country, he has McConnell in the Senate and his cronies sitting around him.
Many, "nice" poeple in person who voted for him are supporting him as well. These "nice" people just don't want to talk about it or admit it, all they do is watch their retirement and bank accounts, that is all they care about and fewer taxes. Let Trump murder someone on 5th Avenue and they will ignore it and act like it didn't happen which is how Trump has been able to pillage and plunder.
65
@EC17 Those "nice people" are the proto fascists of an America in the future. They should be categorized as such on the maps of this country.
4
While the power of pardon is nearly absolute, the framers never intended the pardon to be used for the president’s own benefit, by limiting the disclosures from witnesses about the president’s own misdeeds.
I personally construe a pardon for Manafort as obstruction of justice against the president himself.
135
@BWCA
How is it not a high crime for the president to circumvent justice by pardoning a known felon to protect himself?
6
@BWCA. How does a pardon protect Trump? Once pardoned, Manafort could sing like a birdie, over and over at any state or federal level. If Trump had half a brain he would not pardon Manafort, in self protection.
5
@Chip
First, boys, this pardon has limited value as Manafort is still on the hook for multiple state crimes which are untouchable by Trump.
Of course now that Republicans have bought the courts, that may not be as of an impediment as one would hope.
And second I have never, in all my days as a reader and commentator-wannabe, seen anyone successfully land a triple-reverse double forward-facing combined verbal/logical side-flip.
Chip, you are my hero and no doubt the idol of many.
1
What about this shouldn't be considered obstruction of justice?
33
@AGuyInBrooklyn--And, who's going to prosecute him for it? "His" Justice Department? "His" Senate? Trump has successfully stacked the deck in his favor. Nothing will touch him while he's in office, and when he's out of office (if he ever is), he'll relish a prosecution. Fighting his enemies in court will be a welcome retirement for Trump. He'll look forward to it the way other retirees look forward to gardening and spending time with the grandkids.
2
The brazenness of Mr. Trump’s actions are beyond the pale. Even mentioning pardons in an investigation involving him is witness tampering and shows criminal intent. At what point will the ‘law and order’ party speak up? The silence from the Republican Congress is deafening.
48
So actually, The New York Post talked about pardoning Manafort, and Trump responded the only way a professional provocateur could, saying, “I wouldn’t take it off the table, why would I take it off the table?”
I am no fan of the man and I am appalled by his attacks on the press, but the press is stirring the pot here. Everyone knows that a pardon for Manafort is a possibility. Why don't you wait till it happens and tell us about it then?
1
The Kleptocracy continues.....
No wonder Trump likes Putin, MSB, Kim, etc., etc.
Their MO is all about aggregating power, walking over democratic institutions, norms and traditions and pursuing more wealth for their families and close associates...
At a point such "leaders" lose the privilege of enjoying the due process and norms emanating from the rule of law that they destroy to further their power. Mr. Trump should consider that the system he tries to wreck may prosecute him, but it also will protect him.
5
I wonder if a pardon for one of his henchmen is the last nail Muller is hoping for?
2
My children are gonna have quite the history lessons when they start reading about this time. Wow, just wow. Watergate is a minor infraction compared to what’s happening on a daily basis right now.
58
One can only hope. I’ve learned to keep my hopes in check over the past 2 years; a big part of me thinks he’ll never be convicted or impeached over any of this.
3
@2016-2018: “What Not To Do” Blueprints
It depends on who writes the history books. I seem to recall a Texas school system recently deleting all mention Hillary Clinton and Helen Keller from history books. I can only imagine in years to come that at least 1/3 of our country's children will be reading about what a great President Donald Trump was. Incredible!
1
@Jamie Loonam - I completely agree with you on this. I have stopped watching MSNBC as they stated over and over that it would be close but Hillary would win. I have stopped believing that the good guys win in the end. I see no moves coming from the Republicans that they want to put a stop to any of Trump’s behavior. I feel hopeless that he’ll ever be checked or balanced, and believe that he’ll continue to commit crimes for the next two years if not the next six. I never thought I’d see such lawlessness in my country.
1
What a coincidence! Yesterday, Trump raised the prospect of a pardon for Paul Manafort, and today Michael Cohen (one-time Trump lawyer) pleads guilty to charges of lying to Congress about Trump consorting with the Russians. Interesting timing.
4
We really are the frog in boiling water. If, on inauguration day, Trump had said he'd pardon duly convicted criminals to protect himself, the reaction would like have been one of outrage even from republicans. I'm not hearing any bipartisan outrage. It's like deciding not to shave and waking up one day wearing the beard of autocracy.
9
Why take the pardon off the table? Because he's a convicted criminal, who confessed to his crimes--and should be punished, just like all those involved should be punished.
8
Maybe not off the table, but definitely off the hook. What a mess!
Richard Nixon: “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” Have we fallen back to these levels?
12
Trump's various tweets and rambling utterances about pardons for Manafort and others constitute obstruction of justice in broad daylight.
It is the equivalent of his boasting that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any support. He is murdering democracy right in front of our eyes and, at least to date, getting away with it.
187
@Barking Doggerel
Honestly.
"Stable Genuis" is masterful at only one thing: showing us he is neither stable nor a genius.
3
When one watches President Trump break every law within reach, a cold chill goes down the spines of American Patriots.
When is Congress going to stand up to such tyranny?
70
This Republican, do nothing party, is complicit with the corrupt Trump presidency ( small p ). Republicans are all complicit! I'm so disgusted..Manafort, Stone...the list goes on. The Trump supporters are guilty of conspiracy to destroy this country due to their ignorance and I will not stand by in silence.
6
Obstruction of justice incident #689 of Trump's Lawless Administration.
And lawless Republicans sit on their corrupt hands as the American rule of law is flushed down Trump's amoral toilet for a few extra dollars.
The Russian-Republican rot in America will destroy this country if the citizens allow these shameless oligarchs to defy the Constitution.
There's a proud criminal in the White House covering up the crimes of his campaign staff and Administration.
Investigate
Impeach
Indict
Incarcerate
Make America Great Again: Dump Trump !
105
@Socrates - Hear, Hear! Getting a sane, law-abiding national leadership back into Washington (whether conservative or liberal, preferably both) would be a giant step forward for this country. What have we done to ourselves??!!
6