I really don't like the comments about starving children on earth linked to Science and Space Exploration . Those problems are caused other groups of people , not scientists (or Explorers). If money was taken away from Space Exploration , it would NOT go to feeding hungry children!
24
@GPG
Not only that--orbital satellites tell us much more about crops, soils, droughts and flood patterns in specific areas than we ever could have known before. Knowledge gained from going to space HELPS feed hungry children.
7
There are many pessimists in the crowd.
First, we should thank NASA for their continued dedication. I personally don't want to see space research privatized. Launching satellites into earth orbit is one thing. However, I don't see business with any bright ideas about the resulting debris. NASA as a public venture is the only means to solve these problems. You want GPS on your cell phone? You need a civilian space program.
More importantly though, I think pessimists are missing the fundamental purpose of space exploration. I know everyone is focused on climate change. So am I. However, how do study climate change without a point of comparison? How do you correct global scale climate events without studying global scale climates? Space is not all about rocks and sandpits.
I remember my geology professor once teaching a lesson on climate change. She was a geologist and astrophysicist. Her husband engineered satellites and, you guessed it, Mars landers. She explained climate change and environmental feedback loops. Once the reaction reaches a certain threshold, you can't stop it.
We can't know what that threshold is for Earth, she said. However, we are either going to end up like Venus or Mars if climate change persists. We had better understand darn well which direction we are heading if we are really going to stop this thing. Earth science is therefore found in the stars.
17
This editorial didn't say it, but too many people are inferring that the ultimate, achievable goal is a growing human colony on Mars. Some students in my classes arrive convinced that humans will move to Mars after leaving earth environmentally despoiled. In my view that is a dangerous delusion. The surface temperature on Mars is around -150 fahrenheit, the surface pressure is 1/500 th of the pressure here, there are very high radiation levels which would kill a human in about 10 years and there is no biosphere. It's all very well to study Mars, for the reasons mentioned in the editorial and others, though even in space science other projects might be merit higher priority. But the delusion that we will escape the fruits of our misbehavior by fleeing to Mars as a species can dangerously detract from making serious efforts to deal the threats to our species and biosphere here on earth. Those threats include climate change, of course, but also nuclear annihilation. This week's NYTimes on the precipitous decline of insect populations world wide reports on a particularly alarming signal, like a dying canary in a coal mine, that the earth's carrying capacity has been exceeded and the ecosystem is dying. If that happens humanity may not survive either. We tend to forget the extent of our dependence on the biosphere.
16
@jwhalley A few typos in the comment above: The pressure given in my source is about 1/200 of the atmospheric pressure on earth, not 1/500 th.
I meant to say .."might merit higher" not "might be merit higher"
"to deal with the threats" not "to deal the threats"
I shouldn't be in such a rush to press the button.
1
I'm very interested in and fascinated with astronomy, and also love science fiction. For people who complain that money spent by NASA on Mars missions and space exploration in general, remember that a of basic science that is funded by the federal government has later produced commercial technology like lasers, GPS and the internet etc. However, I hate to be pessimistic, but the one negative thing is that, if far into the future, mankind could colonize Mars or the Moon, there is no reason to believe that humans would not destroy the new worlds, as people has been such bad stewards of the planet earth. With over population, pollution, rapidly depleting all of the earth’s natural resources, including clean air and water, and now facing climate change, which may doom the human race and make the planet uninhabitable (for people). We may not even last for a few more centuries, but the planet will continue to exist for another 5 billion years before the sun goes supernova.
4
@Seymore Clearly
Without basic research we'd not have electric generators and certainly a huge amount of horrific diseases. Without the discovery of quantum mechanics we'd still be in the vacuum tube age, without any consumer electronics or modern medical devices. And no GPS, too!
It's way, way, way too early to worry about colonizing other worlds. How would you even hope to move billions of people anyway?
As for the sun, it will not go supernova. When it runs out of hydrogen 5 billion years hence, it will expand into a red giant, swallowing Mercury, Venus, and perhaps even Earth itself. Either way, we'd be goners.
What most intrigues me about Mars these days (unlike my boyhood fears about the Martians depicted by H.G. Wells) is the highly convincing evidence that there is either water there, or that there once was water-- lots of it. So where did it go? Is it possible that life-- even intelligent life-- once existed there and we may yet find evidence of that? Will Earth one day suffer the same fate as Mars? The razor-thin envelope of life that exists here is imperiled by our heedless mismatch between the ecospehere and our human-made technospere. Did Mars' oceans evaporate into space? Might Earth's do the same? Did a civilization once exist there that ignored its own warnings? We must explore. It is in our DNA.
3
Elon should take note of Robert Heinlein's novella , "The Man Who Sold The Moon", in which the organizer of the first successful moon landing must give up his dream to go himself.
The Oceans Beckon and the Planet Cries
1
Let Mexico pay for it!
1
These missions to Mars show the human race at its best: hungry for knowledge and capable of extraordinary technological know-how.
31
All this money would be MUCH better spent on birth control and voluntary sterilization. The greatest threat to THIS Planet is exploding population. Want to Fund this Hobby, this unnecessary luxury ???? Fine. Raise money, do it privately.
Seriously.
5
@Phyliss Dalmatian
It's not a hobby. It may well be part of the solution.
Example:
https://theconversation.com/what-venus-has-taught-us-about-protecting-the-ozone-layer-9200
Basic research has led to endless technological marvels, ridding the world of many horrific diseases, for one. There'd be no vaccines without prior basic research. Consider smallpox. Not to worry. Taken care of.
Population control is more a matter of politics than money. Stopping funding of space exploration won't help this any, nor will it help anything else, for that matter.
There are far more things that are not worthy whose defunding would save a much larger sum of money. There'd be no smartphones, small computers, internet, fiber optics, the laser, electric generators, and more if there had not been basic research done decades earlier. For some perspective: The $850 billion bailout in 2008 is more than NASA's entire running budget! And that's for approx. 50 years!
3
@Phyliss Dalmatian What percentage do you think NASA costs of every tax dollar? 10%? 20%? 25%?
Answer: half a penny. Seriously.
NASA has been cut to the bone for years and underpaid dedicated scientists and engineers produce incredible science, including important knowledge about our planet and climate change. You might consider checking out their websites. NASA is not a "hobby." It is one of the reasons the world follows the US.
If you are looking for birth control, go to Planned Parenthood and the Clinton Foundation.
4
May we share an example of Mars technology which helps all of us on Earth?
A Rover instrument called TLS (Tunable Laser Spectrometer) on Curiosity searches for methane. A much-miniaturized and earth-centric updated version of TLS called OPLS (Open Path Laser Spectrometer) is invented. OPLS is a hand-carry methane sensor which gives immediate readings.
How does this help us on Earth? Well, methane leaks are a huge issue, contributing to climate change and bad for the environment. It is a problem for pipelines and even your local neighborhood. OPLS measures methane leaks on the spot or can be attached to a drone and flown in to measure leaks in awkward areas for humans to reach.
The final version for industry has been refined and is in the final phases of manufacturing by a firm named RKI Instruments, a 100-year-old company with orders from many large fossil fuel giants including SoCal Gas, Pacific Gas & Electric, Chevron, etc. (The modern RKI OPLS should not be confused with an early prototype being hawked on the internet by two individuals who left JPL in order to enrich themselves. They are not manufacturers. The early prototype they use is inferior to the OPLS RKI which has been improved by 75%. We have not been enriched beyond regular salary. Those who want more information should search Christensen/JPL/OPLS/methane.)
Bottom line is Mars science helps us here on Earth. Feel free to share the story of OPLS with naysayers.
2
Glad to see an editorial on an interesting scientific topic for once, instead of just bashing Trump all the time!
NASA should kill the jobs program called SLS and support SpaceX instead.
2
@Jay Lincoln NASA is a government entity for the people and SpaceX is industry for profit. SpaceX has been known to ring up NASA scientists, pretend to wish to collaborate, pick scientists' brains and then disappear to use the gained knowledge for themselves. Shady.
4
Great! I also heard that in about 20 years man might be moving to Mars...that is if man is still alive with the current threat of a global nuclear holocaust. Russia, U.S., China, and the others with their nuclear toys will end the lives of the 7.6 billion humans currently living on earth.
You know what else beckons? Screams for our attention, actually?
Earth.
Why don't we focus all of this energy and money on saving the planet we actually have to live on, and taking care of the people we have to live on it with?
There is nothing on Mars that can show us what we already know needs to be done here.
7
@Servatius "Is it too much to ask for both?"-Iron Man
Just as it was our manifest destiny in the early 1800's to explore the West. It is our manifest destiny today to explore space( and the ocean).
We should be able to take care of our planet and explore space
3
@Servatius
Here's a counterexample:
http://theconversation.com/what-venus-has-taught-us-about-protecting-the-ozone-layer-9200
The planet is about 4.5 billion years old and will be around for another 5 billion. The planet will be fine.* It's our environment that needs saving! Studying what went wrong on Venus and Mars may well help us "save Earth."
* Thank you, George Carlin.
Faraday made the needle of a galvanometer move by moving a magnet through a coil. This led to the electric generator, and is still how it works to this day. "Why are we worrying about the needle in a galvanometer when we have all these problems?" That's why.
Einstein discovered stimulated emission of radiation in 1917. Decades later this led to the laser, perhaps the most useful device ever made.
GPS would not work without using the equations of relativity. Einstein wasn't thinking about GPS in the early 1900s!
Physicists measuring the magnetic fields of protons and neutrons (NMR). "Who cares?" you would say. This is the principle of MRI, which never would exist without the development of NMR.
You never know what fruits there will be of untargeted (basic) research. But exploring Mars is included, just like studying Venus paid off helping us with problems down here on Earth. One could write a book with many more examples.
And how much money are you "wasting" on sports, entertainment, vacations, and what not?
7
@Betaneptune - Add "versatile" to my description of the laser. Sorry for missing that the with the first round.
1
> A random sampling of comments from the public suggests not everyone is convinced that digging on Mars is money well spent.
...when we could have used the money to kill people in another country, not solve homelessness or (best of all) given it to the already super-wealthy.
1
For decades governments and scientists have had to face the argument against the tremendous costs of space exploration. "The money spent could have done so much good on earth."
Is about the gist of it.
It isn't wrong. There is a value judgement being made every time one agency gets more money and another gets less, though that fact isn't in itself an argument against funding science.
The advocates for science often try to argue back that the innovations born of the research will fund profitable activities down the line through spin off technologies. This is true but it ignores that embracing profit as justification for research doesn't refute the ethical argument and that the science possesses value other than monetary value.
Perhaps the question doesn't hold up though because it comes from the wrong angle. What if we embraced the tremendous achievements of space science and (as a show of what the brilliant minds of our society can do) fully funded researchers in the social sciences as well? Science finds solutions and the minds in those fields are no less brilliant.
I suspect that it's not done because social science fully funded would tear down conventional prejudice and class discrimination and our political donor class wouldn't be happy with that at all. and so we live in a nation which travels to Mars but as far as homelessness, addiction, income inequality and healthcare are concerned still promotes trickle down equal to the "moon is made from cheese."
November 28, 2018
Earth's collective science / technology achievements has now added this landing and to its agenda to our catalog for understandings - and that is all about our better angels in the name of explorations and knowledge - and all the world must be proud and joyful - for much toil and vigor can only and will only be the power that has rewards by every one on the team - So let's celebrate and onward we travel towards truth universal.
jja
2
I don't get it - we have a few million people living in extreme poverty in this country - we're mired in trillions in debt - we can balance out budget - education in the inner cities is failing (100 high schools in NYC have graduation rates < 50%) - we can't fix our subways and bridges - yet we're going to Mars.
It's a complete waste of taxpayer dollars....what was the cost of this mission - $2 billion, $3 billion? We could send low income children to college with that money....we could build a few more medical clinics in the inner cities...
NASA has missions which provide a lot of critical data for our Country - going to Mars isn't one of them.
2
@JMS Perhaps, sir, you'd prefer living in the 19th century?
1
Lets go!
3
Mars Beckons and says Come Die Here!
2
As a boy I dreamed of a race of men that would travel through the universe and colonize worlds still unknown.
Today, as an old man, I look around and see a race of madmen who are utterly destroying the only home they and their children's children children will ever know, and putting their hope into barely reachable cold hells that promise a barely sustainable life more barren and more hopeless than any Earthly prison imaginable.
22
it may be okay to send a robot to mars that takes 7 months to get there, but sending people on a trip that takes a similar amount of time and strands them on the planet for 2 years before another ship can get to them is lunacy. sending humans any further into space than the moon needs to wait until we develop engines that can provide thrust continuously at .25 g at a minimum.
1
Times, please stop running articles on the success of government space exploration. The topic will eventually get on Trump's radar and then he'll try to scale it back, because, you know, that's what his gut tells him.
I saw humans land on the moon when I was 11. It would be very exciting to see a human go to Mars in my lifetime. But more than that, I want to see us save the beautiful planet we have.
4
As a stockholder in Tesla, I vote for Elon to leave for Mars ASAP! It was a good run, but time to move on to a more stable CEO.
1
Why do we do this, because...
Science informs exploration, and exploration informs science.
8
“Elon Musk, for one, says there’s a 70 percent chance that footprint will be his. ‘I’m talking about moving there,’”
If Mr. Musk is willing to place his faith in his own flawless calculations, clearly indicating that he has a seven in ten chance to blast himself to Mars, who is anyone else to dissuade him?
Live long and prosper, dude.
1
I have to say "Mars Beckons" is a striking title. It reminded me immediately of the last line in the Moby Dick movie where Starbuck sights the lifeless body of Ahab flopping and tangled in the harpoon lines on the whale's back, and tells the crew that "Ahab beckons". Obsession, whether for global industrialisation, limitless power or the white whale, can come to an unholy conclusion. I think the outcome of the drive for spaceflight will be strongly linked with how well the family of nations manages our mother earth (presently doing badly) as I don't see how humanity can survive without a healthy earth in the long term.
10
@davey
" I don't see how humanity can survive without a healthy earth in the long term"
I don't either. We have over 7 billion people on earth, and that stands to get whittled down to less than a billion if we don't stop using fossil fuels on earth very soon. That's just a basic hack in judgement of an engineer (that's what we do for a living).
If Mars is better than Earth, then we're doomed!
1
If one had to know in advance which exploration, which avenue of research was going to pay off, we would never do any. And we would have no progress at all.
Exploring other planets can help us better understand our Earth, its future and its past.
I wonder if there were any problems in Spain or Italy, when the Queen funded Columbus' exploration.
6
I have a deep but troubled admiration for Musk. I admire his guts, but he has like 5 or 6 sons or something. I'm sorry Elon, you can't go. You'll have to send a childless person or you will get little support.
I recently saw the movie "First Man" which I highly recommend to everyone. It was one of the best movies I've seen in recent years.
I have a similar deep but troubled admiration for Armstrong and the others in that movie. I honestly believe it is selfish for a father to take on such risky endeavors.
I'm no saint, and I have no good reason to preach about putting kids before self. It is almost impossible sometimes, but when it comes to going to Mars, which will be a highly publicized event in total lack of cold-war-era blind support, I think that the public will object to a father like Musk making the first trip.
But who knows? Musk defies the odds every time. Can he defy the public opinion of billions? Maybe.
I'd like us to get there, but I don't want to go myself. I believe the actual first landers should be non parents. But I'm only one person and I have no real vote in the matter. Good luck to Musk if he decides to be the first! I just hope he knows he doesn't have to do that to impress us!
1
@DudeNumber42
I think that once your children have grown to a successful, independent adulthood, it's your choice (and theirs, of course) whether to stay nearby or go for adventure. Mars is farther away than any Peace Corps gig, but the principle is the same.
Man landed on the moon 50 years ago. Do we have anything to show for this achievement apart from the bragging rights? There is no scientific payback or spin-off from the International Space Station or the Space Shuttle either. Two of the 5 space shuttles blew up with a loss of human life that had no purpose. The space shuttle and the space station were purely engineering achievements and not scientific breakthroughs and extremely expensive at that. The funds available for science research are always limited and the politicians have a duty to make the best possible choice without being swayed by grandiose projects which may not be the right fit in terms of return. Musk is right in saying that people die all the time in the hope of climbing to the summit of Mount Everest. Those are all privately funded trips. Let him finance his own trip to mars!
@Rahul - that's funny because Musk IS funding his own trip to Mars. If you haven't been paying attention, he started and runs a space-launch company that is both paying for the technology and rockets to get him there AND dramatically lowering the costs of getting into space for, you guessed it, NASA and the defense department (that would be us, the taxpayers). So he will pay his own way AND make it cheaper for the rest of us to enjoy the benefits of access to space.
6
Exhilaration over Mars landing at JPL was as exciting to watch as the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo space flights at Cape Canaveral in the early 1960s and 70s. Sure as fate, the old storied statue of Ozymandias will be rediscovered in the red sands of Mars, the orb humankind plundered and left to settle on Earth during the long ago and faraway extinction of the Red Planet.
2
If we were really smart we'd let the "Intelligent Life" out their spend their money and resources to find us!
So many billions (soon trillions) of dollars spent for interesting photos and videos to entertain us.
Perhaps all those very, very smart people at NASA with lifetime 6 figure salaries and benefits could be better used solving real-world problems like clean water and food distribution as well as health care and renewable energy.
I'd rather not see another child in this world die of hunger, thirst or disease rather than be entertained by photos and videos of a desolate Mars!
4
"A random sampling of comments from the public suggests not everyone is convinced that digging on Mars is money well spent."
According to Sociology studies and the Pew Research Center, the generational cohort most vociferously opposed to space exploration are the Baby Boomers. They believe anything which does not directly benefit themselves has no utility whatsoever.
In contrast, Silents, Gen-X'ers, Millennials, and Zetas are enthusiastic over the prospect of space exploration. But, so long as Boomers continue to be the key demographic group which shapes American politics, the likelihood of NASA ever receiving enough tax-payer funds to fulfill its stated purpose is as remote as humans colonizing Mars.
Perhaps when Boomers begin to die-off in the 2020s, a new electorate can emerge, and humankind can try again to reach for the stars. In the meantime, enjoy Boomer Land.
2
@Sándor
Hullo, Bedford Falls - might there be a little logistical flaw in your blaming Boomers for caring more about the plight of Earth than space spending?
We probably aren't going to be the ones around to watch it's demise, unless it happens even faster than predicted. So how does our alleged concern about the Earth's future on earth "benefit us"?
Having lived both before and after the tremendous benefits of cell phones, GPS, the internet, completely depersonalized medical care courtesy of electronic records, can you possibly imagine why we're unimpressed with the benefits of high technology?
Given recent tech revelations, Elon Musk's Captain Kirk impersonation and this rhapsodizing editorial, I'm beginning to wonder how long it took my grandpa in the buggy business to look at cars and miss horses.
Until we figure out how to live on Earth in a sustainable manner our space exploration will be misplaced vanity and flights of fancy.
1
Peter Thiel once lamented the wasted potential of science and technology by arguing that 'we wanted flying cars, but instead we got 140 characters'. This week the we got a bit closer to flying cars. Keep up the good work NASA!
11
It's nice for a change to see an article on the front page ( digitally at least) that's not about Trump and his bazaar world.
I've been a fan of all the accomplishments this country has made in space since the Mercury program.
I see some comments saying that it's a waste of money with more important programs that could have used the funds that were dedicated to this program, but I couldn't disagree more.
Aside from the shear excitement of potential new discoveries, the technology required to go to and successfully land on Mars will eventually generate new product and jobs for industry in general. People tend to forget how many household inventions were offshoots of the previous space programs.
Congratulations NASA. Keep up the good work.
5
@VMG
"People tend to forget how many household inventions were offshoots of the previous space programs."
Really, please name a dozen or so that we may consider their value in evaluating what a waste of taxpayer money these explorations have become.
@RJM
Check out the Wikipedia page, NASA spinoff technologies. There are about 2,000 of them.
5
@RJM - teflon
Nobody has ever stood on the surface of the far side of the Moon (the side with alien bases), yet humans are planning to travel to Mars. They had better take along a recording of Slim Whitman's "Indian Love Call", just in case.
2
Please pack up Musk, Bezos and Sir Branson into their rocket ships, along with their billions of paper dollars and blast them all off into space to Mars, asap.
What a waste of potential.
We haven't even mapped the ocean floor here on earth, slowed global warming, helped find a cure for cancer nor found fuel alternatives that are abundant or feasibly possible.
Don't forget to start investing in birth control, Mr. Billionaires.
4
@MS
Together the mass of humanity can walk and chew gum at the same time. To pretend that extra-planetary exploration is the obstacle that keeps us from slowing global warming or curing cancer is looking at scientific efforts as zero sum, one or the other. I'm open to the argument that we need not spend another minute making a better mousetrap or even a more sophisticated home coffee maker, but the learning that happens in the pursuit of some great and novel accomplishment benefits our society in endless ways.
6
Humans can do amazing things or they can choose to stare at their phones until their lives whittle away. Bravo, NASA, and bravo, Musk for expanding our Earthly horizons to new Martian horizons!
10
@Jim Dennis
Humans can do amazing things or they can choose to stare at their phones until their lives whittle away.
Assuming you, Dennis, and I are human(s), we do not have to buy the notion that space travel is a pre-requisite for making sustainable progress here on Earth. We can use electronic means of communication in better ways that to whittle our lives away, can't we? After all, Dennis, didn't you use electronic communication to make your comment? and what opportunity would I have to respond to it if you had never sent it?
@Angus Cunningham - Since I never said it was a pre-requisite for making any sustainable progress on Earth, I am happy you didn't buy it. But, I did seem to hit a nerve. I wonder why?
1
The Mars missions, and NASA are America at its absolute BEST! Daring, bold, fearless, ambitious, smart, innovate, ground-breaking.
More NASA, less Trump!
25
Doing it for the challenge tempts our boldest rebels. So?
That‘s all nice and good, but don‘t we have plenty of challenges down here on earth? The notion that we would be able to live on Mars any time soon is just a total pipe dream. It‘s a very hostile environment up there, way more hostile than Mount Everest btw.
13
@heinrich zwahlen As an artist, I'd say if you stand back and look at a painting, it looks a whole lot better. Maybe that's how the scientists feel about earth at this point. They're standing WAY back . . . and maybe that will eventually cause them to see an answer to our problems here on earth.
10
@heinrich zwahlen The challenges here on earth are exactly why we need to explore Mars and seriously seek out other inhabitable planets. Short of a massive reduction in the world population we are soon going to be facing a planet that lacks clean water, has an increasingly harsh climate with ever more severe natural disasters, and a shortage of food for the population we do have. Even if all that doesn't lead to an outbreak of chemical or nuclear warfare that further devastates living conditions on this planet in the next century, it's only a matter of time until this planet collapses beneath the human species.
Personally, I think our chances of colonizing Mars are very, very slim. Our chances of solving global warming, wars, poverty, and hunger are equally slim. However, we must pursue all avenues.
7
@heinrich zwahlen Why don't we just terminate planetary research indefinitely, since the challenges on earth are not going away. Those talented individuals who are inspired to look beyond our world can go to work for ... China. Just think of the good we could do with the money saved, maybe increase entitlement or military spending by 0.3%.
7
I can understand the excitement in all this, but before we commit hundreds of billions of dollars to esploring Mars, how about exploring solutions to key issues here on the ground, starting with universal, single payer health care? Then there's infrastructure, better education opportunities for all, and adequate housing and nutrition for everyone. I well remember in the early 60's people talked about finding a cure for cancer on the Moon. All we found were rocks and dust. Small wonder we've never gone back.
1
@tony83703 Why must we choose? Can't we have both earthly healthcare and other-worldly exploration?
11
@tony83703 - A cure for cancer on the moon? Which mumbling homeless person said that?
As for priorities, one might ask why the Romans built all those roads when things weren't so great in Rome itself. And why even go to the moon? So what if that challenge led to all kinds of improvements in computing, materials science and propulsion. One might question why Guggenheim bothered with a printing press too, since literacy was so low, and why bother sequencing the human genome? It's just a bunch of C's, G's, A's and T's anyway. And we all know that Columbus completely wasted his time trying to find a faster route to India. As always, explorers and explorations have their nay-sayers. Happily, the dreamers eventually win out.
5
Fine. So now I'll reverse my plan of writing off the entire, sorry, human race and holing up in a cave. Just when I've convinced myself that we're absolutely the WORST, we go and do something magnificent.
9
How wonderful it would be to live in a world where the extraordinary accomplishments of NASA and the latest Mars landing would be front page center stories, and we would be spared for even a little bit from the egomaniac ramblings of this President.
33
@YesIKnowtheMuffinMan
At least the egomaniacal ramblings of the Con Don are stimulating some discussion of the art, science AND ETHICS of communicating, by which I do NOT mean broadcasting, because true communication is reciprocal, not one way.
1
We cannot deliver potato chips to the ISS... and we're no where, except for the Chinese, thinking about going back to the moon... thinking about going to Mars is frankly a waste of energy and research... go back to the moon, establish a base, and then, think about Mars....
3
The Insight experiment shows what great things can be done remotely. There is no need to send humans into space; far more can be learned remotely and at much lower cost.
Humans on the Moon or Mars cannot step out and smell the roses; they must be enclosed in a bubble. They may as well be watching on TV.
2
Hello, Times Editorial Board!! Did ya look at the photo of Mars? Did ya see how dusty and barren it looked? Now, take a good look at the planet Earth, a most amazing and gorgeous place, which is being systematically destroyed by greed, especially the greed of the top .1%. Please, send Elon Musk there immediately and then let's start to get serious about how to save our planet before it becomes like Mars. We have no time to lose.
17
@lzolatrov Why sure, Izolatrov . . . California is especially lovely this time of year. All the lovely smoke and tree-torches. Possibly, all humans on the planet Earth should be evacuated to Mars, and give this lovely planet Earth a chance to recuperate.
3
@lzolatrov
Elon is literally the only member of the 1% that actually has gotten serious about saving our planet, and risked everything to do it. Part one is electric cars, batteries and solar to speed up our transition to renewable energy.
Space X is about setting the stage for humanity to become a multi-planet civilization. I get that this may seem "beyond the scope" or just silly to many people. But he's not wrong to want a bright future, while most others wallow in dystopian visions. He's also been wildly successful against all odds. Take a closer look.
1
@lzolatrov It might help us save our planet if we knew how Mars became so desolate
2
For all those who would complain about money being wasted on space exploration, A) all that money is spent on earth where B) it provides jobs for thousands and C) it funds work on the very frontiers of science and technology, expanding our knowledge of the universe. Considering all of the economic activity that does nothing except provide more elaborate diversions of no worth and enriches the already wealthy, it's a bargain.
Given the increasing inability of humans to deal with our own shortcomings and face up to the challenges that are now global, the possibility of expanding human presence to more than one planet doesn't seem like a bad idea. Given the challenges of creating a human presence on Mars some day, it would certainly provide a barrier to stupid we seem to be lacking here on the third planet.
And with Mars to compare and contrast, it might boost appreciation for what we are putting at risk here on this world.
12
@Larry Roth
Ever bought a bargain that turned out to be a BARGOON?
Exploring Mars?: Great. Carry on. Life on Mars? Doubtful, and lots of places that may be more likely are just plain inaccessible. Putting people on Mars? If somebody like Musk wants to do it on his own dime, as sort of a stunt, well OK. Living on Mars? Forget about it - period.
3
In an age of dwindling hopes its wonderful to start the day with goosebumps instead of despair.
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Elon Musk also said there's a good chance he wouldn't come back either. I'm not entirely disappointed with that outcome but there's a reason why we leave space exploration to NASA. The challenge of human space travel is not getting to your destination. The challenge is coming back alive.
Anyway, I imagine we'll set foot on mars eventually. However, I'll settle for robots for now. InSight is an impressive accomplishment. Briefcase satellites are very James Bond. Added bonus: Caltech didn't have to weight seven years to figure out whether their mission burned up on entry. I imagine those Mercury folk are having a harder time waiting.
Good job NASA.
... now get back to work. I'm sure there's something else cool you could be doing right now.
@Andy
"I'm sure there's something else cool you could be doing right now."
Does that mean your highest value in life, Andy, is coolness?
@Angus Cunningham
Obviously. There's clearly no other meaning you could possibly infer from that statement.
[Slow clap]
Nice to see a NYT editorial that is about the science itself, not just the politics seething around some scientific topics these days. As for the "why do it?" question. I am convinced humans just do this sort of thing. Other hominids didn't and they are extinct.
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@Mike S.
"... humans just do this sort of thing. Other hominids didn't and they are extinct."
This is not, fortunately, ALL that humans do that hominids didn't.
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Your “What for?” paragraph misses an essential point. We need to explore other Earthlike planets for the insight (yes) they provide into the workings of our own Earth, how it evolves and changes and how to best manage it. Time and again curiosity driven exploration of our neighboring worlds has provided essential knowledge which has helped us deal with real world problems, often those of our own making, including nuclear winter, acid rain and climate change. If we are going to be good stewards of this planet we cannot afgord to avoid exploring others.
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@David Grinspoon
"If we are going to be good stewards of this planet we cannot afgord to avoid exploring others."
Can we afford to avoid learning better how to communicate, which means, among other things, avoid wars and despoliation of our environment by means of which we already know but about which we are failing to communicate well?
Think about. Scientists like these, armed with basic knowledge in chemistry, physics, and mathematics - calculus, quantum mechanics, Newtonian physics, general relativity, etc have the same theoretical undergrad education and the same understanding of the mechanics of scientific methods as climate scientists.
There can be no doubt that the NASA scientists are successful with measurable outcome. We can thus safely conclude that the climate scientists found and continue finding the truth. The only difference is that the experimental test is a large scale activity unintended that rises the ocean, heats up the planets surface, and churns the atmosphere.
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All for spending money on science and inquiry, but it's always about judging priorities, isn't it?
Should the money be spent on Mars unmanned flights, on deep sea investigation, on the function of the immune system and the potential to cure malignant disease by tapping its power?
The world of science is very broad, virtually infinite. The amount of money available is not.
Do we spend money on those projects which can be marketed most effectively? If not for public appeal, how do we decide and who decides which parts of science get the money?
If science is funded by capitalists, we get big pharma: some advances, but mostly duplicated efforts. The NIH sorts through proposals daily and does good work, but how many good ideas in medical research go unfunded because astronomers and space guys have a better PR department?
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@Claudia
What about the NIH paying more visits to Beijing and other centres of therapeutic arts? Comparing rates of MS recovery East and West demonstrates conclusively that much R&D in Western medicine would be better spent training young westerners in energy-base therapeutic principles and practices
@Claudia Leading with the public's fascination of space exploration may lift all scientific boats.
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@Mike Marshall
"Leading with the public's fascination of space exploration may lift all scientific boats."
The Marshall Plan definitely lifted European boats after WWII. And St. Michael is the name of an angel. So?
Time to focus NASA on the most important planet in the galaxy — EARTH. Nothing else is both accessible and inhabitable, and nothing else is so terribly at risk in terms of our species survival.
Time too to address climate change with the same vigor and determination that took America to the Moon.
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Unless Mars exploration produces gigantic breakthroughs in useable knowledge here on earth, it seems like just another golden bonbon for the military-industrial complex, when that money could much better be used for truly vital needs in our society--like seriously improving education for all, creating a 21stC infrastructure, fighting cancer, etc.
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What is there about people in charge that they cannot see all the same benefits gained from space exploration right here fixing earth's existential problems? And what is there about the rest of us who mostly, but not all, buy into the argument that we cannot stimulate our innovativeness, fire our imagination right here - at least until we have fixed the most pressing of our dilemas?
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I was 12 when the first Sputnik was launched and it gave a real bust to my science education. Our school system in northern Illinois got all concerned about falling behind the Russians and really ramp up science and math for the students that wanted to work in those fields someday. I am now retired after a career as an engineer in the metals industry in which I helped build the rolling mills where metal for aerospace is produced.
Still love to see how this has developed.
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I completely agree that expeditions to Mars and other off-earth locations are worthwhile. It's one of the few areas of science that can keep the public fascinated and can be interpreted as a human endeavor, rather than a local one (even if this was a U.S. mission). Learning about our solar system's past is a case of gaining knowledge for pure knowledge's sake, mostly, and I think that's laudable. Should we find evidence that life can exist or has existed or even does exist elsewhere than earth, it will change our views of everything, particularly our place, as humans from earth, in the universe, perhaps making us more humble and making our petty disagreements less important and less dangerous. It may even convince us that it's worth saving the planet so we can someday meet other inhabitants of our galaxy.
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@Casey Dorman
"perhaps making us more humble and making our petty disagreements less important and less dangerous. It may even convince us that it's worth saving the planet so we can someday meet other inhabitants of our galaxy."
Sounds pretty speculative to me. We can gain knowledge seeking it inside; and not all outer work is beneficial.
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Nice piece. Many will, of course, argue (as they did from the beginning of the space program) that such money could be better spent on Earth. Yes, there are undeniable needs here at home, but the knowledge we have cumulatively gained from space exploration, manned and unmanned, has expanded our knowledge and led to numerous developments, all of which are difficult to attach a price tag to.
Additionally, in roiled times like this, such efforts offer a glimmer of pride for us and the world about the possibilities of human achievement. Reading the news is often quite dystopian, from doomsday climate predictions to the daily grind of political angst (and we will no doubt see the comments to this piece peppered with inane Trump references). Taking a few minutes to celebrate the opening of unknown worlds and frontiers should cheer us all, and make us remember that, as difficult as it is, we have within us the capability, at least, of being better than we are.
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@George S
Taking a few minutes to celebrate the opening of unknown worlds and frontiers should cheer us all, and make us remember that, as difficult as it is, we have within us the capability, at least, of being better than we are.
Better than we are at what? Isn't that also a question worth asking, George S?
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@George S
We can scarcely be better at warmaking than we are now. Any better and our planet will resemble Mars.
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Politics (Sorry): Exploring mars fine. Moving to mars - forget it. It is not something we (or Musk) should be thinking about at this time. No place on mars is more hospitable than the worst place on earth. Earth first!
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@Tracy Rupp
What's so 'fine' about exploring Mars? There isn't as much to learn in exploring such a place as there is to learn about making our own Earth a Garden of Eden with a few less 'snakes'? But maybe Mars explorations are more spectacular for ideologues to promote and more sensational for young people to boggle about?
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@Angus Cunningham
It certainly sounds like you have intelligently studied both sides of this issue and have, after weighing the evidence, come to a defendable, logical, reasonable conclusion.
For a somewhat accurate and entertaining drama of a scientific expedition to Mars, I recommend the National Geocgraphic series Mars, now in its second season. This season the show is exploring potential conflicts between science and big capitalism.
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Non-NASA science and space enthusiasts joined the JPL mission control crowd in its cheers and high-fives. The space agency's continued (and in fact accelerated) push to reach beyond our current level of knowledge ignites imaginations--vital for an economy that thrives on innovation and creation. It also pushes more children into STEM fields, driving them to seek answers in science's many fields. Because of inspiring missions like InSight, cures for disabling and deadly diseases like MS and cancer may be around the corner. It's not hyperbole to say that NASA's fingerprints are on millions of discoveries and creations that improve our world. Moments like InSight's landing keep me hopeful and sane in a world that is often, these days, bleak and crazy-making.
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@e w
It may not be yperbole to say that NASA's fingerprints are on millions of discoveries that are making our world worse. What about ICBMs etc. etc.?
Wouldn't our world be much much better if we emphasized learning in the arts, sciences, and ethics of reciprocal communication?
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@e w
Because of inspiring missions like InSight, cures for disabling and deadly diseases like MS and cancer may be around the corner.
Healing from pre-mortal MS and cancer is already occurring as a consequence of re-examining existing orthodoxies. Very little of such knowledge is acquired by space exploration.
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@Angus Cunningham As my comment notes, I find the inspiration space exploration brings innovations in a variety of fields; I didn't say or imply that actual cures are found in space. But perhaps I wasn't clear.
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