It may be helpful for the US to probe its foreign policy toward Honduras from where so many of these people are fleeing. The drug trafficking problem is highly to blame and many of these people are fleeing death and extortion threats from drug related gangs. Drug people and money permeate all levels of life in the country. The actual president is backed and propped up by the US, he is US' dear friend in the collapsed country. He altered the constitution to run for a second term after a reelection campaign many considered fraudulent. His brother faces drug charges in the US after having been recently detained in Miami. Even the president's brother i s in the drug business! No wonder all these people are fleeing. Is the US helping solve the problem at its source? Or contributing to the mass refugee crisis.
3
American troops firing over the border into Mexico is an act of war. War must be voted on by Congress, which it has not done.
U.S. law says America must process all requests for exile and/or residence, in the U.S., and permit the applicants to stay in the U.S. while their applications are being processed. This is not being done. The law is not being enforced.
South and Central American refugees, especially women with babies and children, do not present a danger to national security. Trump cannot pull the "national security" card as rationale for every single act of Executive Power. It simply doesn't apply here.
The Trump administration and his Republicans have not demonstrated any desire to follow the law or the Constitution -- across the board.
Congress is not doing its job of checking the Executive. They did not vote for a war on Mexico. They did not vote to refuse to process any exile requests and turn all comers away
Trump did not drain the swamp. He developed a flourishing resort for criminals, lowlifes, layabouts, the self-serving, and those with morals lower than a snake's belly to the ground.
2
Immigration is a tricky subject, even in the best of times. There has to be a popular consensus for pro-immigration policies to succeed. There may have been agreement on the subject twenty or thirty years ago, but that "era of good feeling" has died with the onslaught of the drugs and gangs. Now we must deal with reality. It's what got Trump elected.
As Hillary so eloquently said, "deal with it!"
3
Am I missing something? Who is organizing these groups that are helping these poor folks to travel with babies and children this distance? Has word not spread that getting into the US in this manner will only end badly? And if these folks are leaving due to gangs or such why do they not take up the offer of Mexico to settle with job opportunities etc. When I see a woman with two young children running from tear gas I am angry at the mother.
9
Xenophobic, racist, misinformed and short-sited. Yes, I am talking to you.
I have lived and conducted business in border towns my entire life. Both sides of both borders. I can tell you that people like these, both legal and non-legal contribute more to our economy than you understand. Close the border and we will all feel it in the pocketbook.
I am surprised to read comments stating these people don’t pay taxes. They do. They buy food, cars, and other commodities. Even real estate. They pay payroll taxes.
If they are physically and mentally healthy enough to work and don’t have a criminal record in their own or some other country, give them a work visa. They didn’t travel this far to be homeless. They are motivated.
4
California has 55 electoral votes that rely heavily on the poor, and the people running the programs for the poor. The only cure is to vote the slum lords out.
2
Trump has single handily created a humanitarian crisis at our southern border. He could easily solve the problem by adding two or three hundred border patrol officers to process the migrants asylum applications. He could process the women and children first but by any stretch of the imagination he's no humanitarian.
He's chosen to strand them at the border and pass the responsibility onto local Mexican authorities. He does not want to let them in. He's hoping they will turn around and walk back to Central America. They have a right to pursue asylum under current U.S. law. He needs to be sued to force this to happen. What he's doing is racist but to him that's insignificant.
3
Yeah, make it about race. Typical response. This is not Trump's or the United States fault, as you are trying to make it. Somewhere along the line, someone told them that the streets here are paved with gold or something. But you CANNOT expect to storm the border and be let in. You CANNOT just come here and squat, and expect everyone to just accept it. It isn't going to happen. They should either settle in Mexico, or go back.
8
In Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras, free trade agreements with the United States have harmed local farmers and led to worsening labor conditions. If U.S. government trade and assistance policies fostered the protection of the environment, indigenous rights, and economic development and justice, this problem wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. Climate change is another overlooked factor that has increased the threat of drought and other extreme weather events and effected agricultural production and food insecurity in the Central American Dry Corridor, and this is only going to get worse. But as most of the comments here reflect, the majority of Americans won't bother trying to understand why the problems our own government creates or supports end up right back at our doorstep.
3
Mexico let the caravan pass through to the US border and then unwilling let them camp in Tijuana after it became clear that the US would not just let them walk in.
When they try to storm the US border, the US shoots tear gas at them in Mexico. If Mexico does not restrain these wannabe invaders, the US must do something. Would you suggest live rounds? Morally that would not do, but it would surely give you lots to write and cluck about. Maybe it would even gain you a promotion and a raise. (Or are do you write for The Times independently?)
The only solution that works for all parties, but caravanistas, is for Mexico to control them and even better not to let them pass thru in the 1st place.
No OTHER country owes these people anything. What they can bring to the party is not enough.
Heed Mrs Clinton's latest comments.
9
Technically to qualify as an asylum refugee, one must remain in the first safe country. In this case, MEXICO is that place.
They are asylum shoppers all. No right to enter the US.
They are Mexico's problem, not ours.
15
If we had the magic solution that helped our own poor get out of poverty, then we could apply that solution to the worlds' poor. Let's focus on our own responsibility; helping the US poor to learn the skills to lift themselves out of poverty, before we take on the responsibilities of other nations.
As for the tear gas - what did people think would happen if they threw stones at the ICE agents and attempted to enter illegally? These people are not entitled to enter the US. If the caravan organizers push mothers with children to the front of the group trying to illegally cross into the US, the results (tear gas) are on the organizers and the mothers, not on the ICE agents. I would hope that the caravan organizers are reviewing the criteria for asylum with the people in the caravan so they could confirm they qualify for asylum. Trump will not bend on this, and he is in for 2 more years. That is a long wait.
14
America's immigration system has been broken for decades.
It started with the country's addiction to cheap (slave) labour via the slave ships from Africa, to the prison chain gangs, and now, the cheap labour from Mexico, etc.
And the present crisis re the asylum seekers is just one more reminder as to what goes around, comes around.
Seriously, when taking into account the rampant gun violence, lack of universal health care and chaos with the immigration system, the United States has likely become the most dysfunctional developed country in the world.
Such a waste of potential.
7
Mexico should take in these migrants. They can easily assimilate into the culture and they speak the same language. Problem solved.
21
Apparently the people blaming trump for the tear gas are forgetting that this was commonly done under obama.
Washington Times:
"The same tear-gas agent that the Trump administration is taking heat for deploying against a border mob this weekend is actually used fairly frequently — including more than once a month during the later years of President Barack Obama’s administration, according to Homeland Security data.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection has used 2-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile, or CS, since 2010, and deployed it 26 times in fiscal 2012 and 27 times in 2013. The use dropped after that, but was still deployed three times in 2016, Mr. Obama’s final full year in office.
Use of CS rose again in fiscal 2017, which was split between Mr. Obama and Mr. Trump, and reached 29 deployments in fiscal 2018, which ended two months ago, according to CBP data seen by The Washington Times.
Border authorities also use another agent, pepper spray, frequently — including a decade-high record of 151 instances in 2013, also under Mr. Obama. Pepper spray, officially known as Pava Capsaicin, was used 43 times in fiscal year 2018, according to the CBP numbers.
The data poses a challenge to the current anger over the Border Patrol’s use of tear gas Sunday to prevent a mob from busting through sections of old border fence in California."
13
Unpredictable as they might be, the one thing we know for sure is that Obrador is smarter and less amoral than Trump, so if Trump is as sly as he may be (who really knows for sure?), he will curb his evil impulses until he can manage to coexist with our neighbors to the south.
2
These migrants are outlaws. They storm the border attempting to force their way into the United States. They are lucky that only tear gas is used against them. If they attempted to storm the Israeli border they would be shot dead.
President Trump has the correct policy. Lawless bullies who attempt to force their way across our southern border should be repelled with brute force. They can stay in Mexico and apply for refugee status at a US Consulate there, and wait peaceably for a decision. Their only other option is to return to their country of origin.
Let the word go out. Do not approach the US border without a valid work permit, green card, visitors visa or US passport. If you do not have proper documentation, you will be turned away. Applications for asylum should be handed in at US embassies and consulates outside the United States.
20
Democrats have only themselves to blame for funding these caravans and encouraging these people to come.
13
Citation for Democratic funding?
3
@Dr. M
That's quite an assumption. Where is the data?
1
@Dr. M
Did you mean Republican funding just before the Midterms?
1
Remind me again what is written on the base of the Statue of Liberty.
2
@Robert Schmid
I believe you should read the history of how the statue got here. Not entirely a generous French gift. Paid for by Americans, through a fundraising venture by the sculptor himself. The poem at the base was donated by Lazarus to this fund raising endeavor. Though a Jewish immigrant, her family was quite wealthy. Ironic to be able to write poetry without actually having experienced pain. New York gave in to Bartholdi's clever blackmail that he might just place it in Philadelphia.
The symbolic value of the statue has taken on a life of it's own especially with it's strategic position. Let's not get melodramatic about this very real situation which is not about people in any really life threatening position in their country. It is merely about how to advantage themselves quickly by maybe squeezing into this country willy nilly. This is not about innocent, naive people, this is a calculated risk they are taking for a possible minimum wage.
5
Shouldn't we give a hand to AMERICAN CITIZENS for the issues of housing and feeding that we keep hearing about? We owe these newcomers NOTHING. They are trying to force themselves upon us, and it seems like about 50% of you want to let them in. Have they had any negative effect on your job? Or do you make money off them?
4
The hard truths of this situation:
1) These people don't understand due process or U.S. Immigration law. We have to stop acting like they do.
2) U.S. immigration law is a mess. So much of a mess that these migrants will not be handled quickly under the best of circumstances, much less when there are 5,000 making a media, administrative, and legal sensation all at once.
3) Tear gas was probably called for in this case. Countries don't just let people walk in. Just make sure we keep our eyes to make sure the arbitrary line of non-lethal force doesn't move.
Once you accept those truths, you begin to realize how hopeless this particular situation is. For the migrants. For the citizens of California. For the U.S. generally.
It is hopeless simply because it can't be solved in a way that makes anyone happy.
So its time for some triage. We need to move on. We need to let the border patrol handle this how they're trained to handle it, we need to let Mr. Trump spew whatever vitriol he will, but as a country we need to get back to the drawing board on fixing the broader problem of big-picture immigration.
6
Please forgive my paranoia and mistrust of anything with #45, but, I am very suspicious of how well timed the "caravan" arrival was with U.S. Elections.
5
@Clint
What is the next caravan timed for? Quick!
4
There has to be control over who crosses our border. I support the troops who are protecting it. I don't support Trump's methods, but the problem needs policies. The Dems are not coming up with any, so the current methods have to stand. We cannot have open borders.
11
The Dems haven’t controlled all 3 branches of government for the last 2 years. Nice try though.
4
All “three branches of the government”? What three branches would that be?
Legislative, Judicial, Toaster.
It is not that choice, they could be put up in Mexico since that is the country they should be applying in. Or they could be sent home where they belong.
11
As reported on PBS last night, the number of potential immigrants does not represent the increase that the government is portraying. These people are legitimately asking for asylum, if they can only do that. The real problem is that there are not enough agents to handle the large one-time flow. We should send the troops home, as they are not meant to use force within the country, and spent that money on opening more processing points and funding the agents. These are people just like our grandparents, who fled various countries for their lives.
2
I don't remember this much coverage when Obama was pepper spraying migrants at the border. We are living in an era of no lies just half truths news bias.
21
What about the State of California's Emergency? We have over 250,000 displaced residents due to fires, over 75,000 homeless citizens- while allowing 3.5 million "undocumented immigrant workers" sanctuary residency. Throw in a chronic shortage of affordable housing and an over saturated education and social services system. When is enough enough?
Why don't they head South for a change? Plenty of room and jobs in Uruguay and Paraguay from what I hear..
29
The photo of children fleeing tear gas at the border with Mexico should make us all feel angry and ashamed.
Yet Trump, when asked how he felt seeing images of women and children running from tear gas, responded:
"Well, I do say why are they there? I mean, I have to start off first of all, the tear gas is a very minor form of the tear gas itself. It's very safe. The ones that were suffering to a certain extent were the people that were putting it out there but its very safe. But you really say, why is a parent running up into an area where they know tear gas is forming and it's going to be formed and they're running up with a child? In some cases, you know, they're not the parents. These are people, they call em grabbers. They grab a child because they think they'll have a certain status by having a child. . . ."
Huh?
Trump's remarks are repugnant, shameful and disgusting, and shows a lack of compassion.
4
The ignorance displayed by anti-immigrant advocates is astounding . Trump doesn't want to solve the problem, because it would deprive him of his #1 campaign issue .There are laws that insure refugees to be granted asylum from oppressive regimes . In order to determine whether or not a specific individual is entitled to asylum they must be examined by a judge . He will decide whether their claim is valid or not . Trump is illegally preventing these hearings from occurring, by teargassing and the use of force. The solution is not 5,600 troops and National guard but more judges to speed the process . $250,000,000 could certainly fund a significant number of judges and resolve the issue legally.
3
Peacefully coming to our border and requesting asylum is perfectly legal. As asylum-seekers, they have internationally recognized human rights.
President Trump has created this crisis by denying those rights, shredding America’s moral leadership for doing good by demonizing and attacking (with words and acts) these families who look up to the US as a beacon of hope.
Maybe we should return the Statue of Liberty to France.
4
Isn't it odd that suddenly 500 asylum seekers "stormed" the border?
Why would they do that? Because the Robber Barons paid them. They are poor and without food or shelter - they would do anything to get some money.
That's the plan, ladies and gentlement, create constant chaos to try to make people think there is really a problem.
There is. They are causing it. They want world chaos and WW3. WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who can/will stop them and now is the time.
Get ready. The Con Don, Steve Bannon, Putin, Netanyahu and all the other WAR mongers will take advanatage of the "holiday season" to try to cause even more chaos and anguish.
Ignore their violent hate-anger-fear-Lies,Lies,Lies-chaos tactics except to stop them at every turn until OUR hired/elected lawmakers get back some control in January.
5
This is a complicated problem with no easy solution, it needs to be comprehensive with both the migrants and the hosting nations, it’s not fair for only Mexico or only the US to deal with the basic necessities of asylum seeker. I think Canada should also take some of the applicants we should all be in this together and perhaps request help to the UN. The only thing that should be obvious is to not throw tear was to children that’s just wrong.
3
Here is my analogy: I recently purchased several bird feeders and for the first few weeks I had an assortment of song birds who frequented the feeders. Not too many, not too little.
Fast forward a week and I had literally hundreds of house sparrows in my yard. I filled two feeders and both were empty by the end of the day. All the other birds were gone,replaced by nothing but house sparrows.
I’ve stopped the feeding, I shut it down. I think of myself as s progressive Democrat but am all for shutting the border down until we get sane immigration policy. I don’t blame Democrats, they attempted comprehensive immigration reform several years ago, only to have the GOP stop it. Trump and the GOP don’t want the problem solved as it’s a wedge issue and literally the only thing they have to run on anymore. But it’s time for a bipartisan solution. We need immigrants in our country, but they have to be positive contributors.
22
If 500 people were rushing through police lines to the front door of my in-laws apartment building on the Upper West Side, in the hope that they would be able to squat there while they look for work, I don't think the doormen have any obligation to let them in, nor does NYPD have to wait for them to start to tear out the revolving glass doors before taking crowd control measures.
32
Mexico’s strategic goal is to occupy as much US territory as possible and then incorporate it into Greater Mexico once the wealth has been siphoned off and the land ethnically cleansed is its previous inhabitants. Like California
There is nothing wrong with this - if your neighbor allows himself to be robbed over and over then human nature seizes that opportunity. If the US is to continue as a nation and European Americans as a people, we must repel invaders, expel alien races, draft a new constitution and redraw borders. We have been slow to react so far. But certainly the coming years will be marked by great conflict over the fundamental issues of ethnicity, race, resources, identity, land.
15
@Tiger shark
"If the US is to continue as a nation and European Americans as a people, we must repel invaders, expel alien races.."
And people think that Americans shouldn't have guns. Here's a Nazi saying s/he wants ethnic cleansing.
I think you might find more people willing to shoot back this time...
3
@Tiger shark
Your racist views are repulsive. Perhaps as a "European American" you should consider going back to Europe. We must expel aliens such as you.
1
Wouldn't it be a better solution to provide help to those countries that are ridden with violence and poverty? After all, we are partially to blame for it. A large part.
5
Excellent idea!! Two great ways of raising the cash to do just that: 1. raise corp. taxes. 2. prosecute white collar crime, and seize the property upon conviction.
4
This does look like an invasion. What country would allow 5,000 plus immigrants to rush in in one action? Look to Europe with the recent invasion by mid east refugees. How did that work out? Look closely at the photos - seriously if you sympathize will you take 100 or so for your neighborhood? Since when do refugees and migrants feel they can storm the borders en masse for entry?
35
The key issue in immigration, whether legal or illegal, is “Will they be reasonably self sufficient?” Sadly, the immigrants from Central America are dominantly uneducated, have limited skills, and far too many are illiterate. ( Published sources say that 25% of the population from Guatemala and Honduras are illiterate in their own language !).
As we have seen with our own citizenry, this profile will trap the bulk of them into a life of poverty. It is immaterial that they are willing to work. They will only command a minimum wage. They will live in a cash economy, never paying into the safety net that they rely upon.
They will tend to congregate into semi-closed communities, never assimilating into the general populace. These areas will echo the crime, gangs and corruption that they thought were left behind.
Globalization has drastically shrunk the size of the unskilled job market. Further, the existing population of 13 million illegals may have already saturated the domestic pool of unskilled jobs. As a result, any significant increase in the population of unschooled youth will result in joblessness, a recipe for crime and unrest.
Immigration once fueled the country’s growth, but it occurred in times of national expansion and industrialization. The precedent of the past no longer applies. Let’s be smart about our choices.
43
@Bongo
Very well said. And just to be clear, the situation that they think they are "fleeing," they are actually bringing along with them.
19
Funny that you mention Central Americans are uneducated I got news for you I’m Salvadorean and I’m currently pursuing a PhD in Civil Engineering, I’m legal and I pay my taxes. You shouldn’t group everyone in one basket just because they look different than you, you shouldn’t draw into conclusions without things actually happening, who are you to know the future?
4
There's a tendency to purposely confuse the issues. NY Times/ Fox News, all reporters out there who really want to opine as opposed to reporting facts (Case in point: picture with kid in the foreground, whereas in the background I see mostly young men)
Of the folks trying to get in, as defined, only 5-7% likely qualify for refugee status.
Rest are economic migrants. What should we do if this is the mix?
And then before you reply, think about costs to you before we welcome them. These folks are not going to live in affluent conclaves, and so folks who live there should not opine. Your quality of life, your kids' school, competition for your jobs will not be impacted.
Let's hear from poor communities if they want more folks coming into their community, competing for their jobs.
Very easy to play humanitarian if you don't share the costs.
34
Hillary was right. Now we need to deal with that before we do any more damage to America.
9
Fortunately Hillary Clinton, at this time, for either good or bad, is the best candidate for president!! She has the capability, the acumen, the knowledge...who is a better candidate for president?
2
@Onekg She is the only moderate Democrat out there with name recognition. And there are no prominent Republicans or Democrats in the electoral pipeline with the courage to speak the truth about our biggest issues. We'll just have to speak up for her whenever the opportunity arises.
1
Except, she was unelectable. So was Donald Trump. They gave us 2 bad choices. Maybe next time......
1
Mexico promised them work visas and jobs. They are Mexico's problem. Mexico should stop them at their own southern border. Or figure out how to deal with them. These immigrants are not our problem. We have plenty of problems of our own without them. Spread the word that they will not be allowed into this country until their asylum claims are sorted out. Tell them to quit using their children as shields. Tell them that they are no long allowed to roam around the U.S. just because they were born in a country that is lawless and scary and that they don't like. Enough is enough. I am a leftie liberal in California. I am all for that Wall.
33
Mexico let them in, Mexico can deal with them. International law requires them to apply for asylum upon entering Mexico anyway. They turned down Mexico's offer of jobs because they want the free stuff in the US. Time to end this abuse of our generosity.
33
So, where's the UN when you need them? If these are "refugees", shouldn't the UN be in Mexico, or better yet, their homelands, setting up refugee camps? Processing refugee claims? And, for those approved for resettlement, sending them to countries that will take them. The US has a refugee cap. We can take refugees up that limit, then no more.
21
This is only the beginning. As environmental disturbances increase—drought, flooding, rising sea levels, crop failure, forest fires—the wave of immigrants will become a tsunami.
By denying climate change, and turning back the clock on efforts to reduce it, Trump is exacerbating very immigrant crisis that he decries. Of course, he will blame Obama, or the Democrats.
17
@Ron Cohen California 6 million more people; a 17% increase since 2000. Water, power, homes, cars, food. But that increase in population has nothing to do with the severity of the fires and mudslides right? That would be inconvenient to the narrative.
10
@Ron Cohen
And if Trump had never been born it would be different how? Not at all is the only correct answer.
9
climate change will take generations to have the impact you are talking about. but you can't deny that it us the dems immigration policy and the desire for "open borders" that gives rise to this situation. if migrants knew that they would not be allowed in en masse, they would not be walking in these caravans. and how many caravans are following this one?
13
It's not the new policy that is the issue - it is the process and the way it was implemented. The Trump administration did not work with allies in Central America or Mexico to ramp up to the new policies. We don't even have ambassadors to any of these countries - no diplomacy - little communication and no planning.
I believe this was all done on purpose to create the drama that is playing out on our TV. I am a liberal and I don't know anyone who is for open borders - including myself.
There are responsible ways to change policy and create process and communicate the changes to people - but the Trump administration didn't do any of that.
5
@Deirdre--Obama sent Joe Biden to Central America to work with them to stop the influx of "unaccompanied minors" and family units. Fat lot of good it did. Fact is, we got what, 200 migrants in the spring caravan, and we're now up to 5,000-10,000 with this group, and supposedly that number again on their way. Just how does one plan for what these people claim was a spontaneous and unorganized march?
13
We are a country who is okay with tear gassing children... I'm at a loss for words.
4
so you're also ok with the parents who basically used their own children as human shields? they seemed to feel it was just fine to subject their own children to this.
24
Ridiculous premise for an article when the author states about the Mexican President elect if he “Will he stand up to Mr. Trump and defend the migrants’ pleas to be allowed into the United States?”
It’s not up to him as we have our own sovereignty and laws and are not subject to the caprices of the Mexican political system. Further, since asylum and entry has already been granted to this caravan in Mexico, what is the basis for asylum entry into the US?
This is no more than a hyped up scandal by the Democrats that helps neither these immigrants nor the citizens of our country.
37
We should be giving Mexico a hand with the migrant housing issue. Send FEMA. Or maybe Mexico has its own version of FEMA that we could bolster. I realize that tear gas and children do not mix. Neither does the sight of tens of thousands of foreign kids let loose upon America.
9
I am in immigrant myself and it took me about 20 years to get my US citizenship. Similar with my husband who came here for a PhD program while working full time. I live in CA where illegal immigration laws are super loose and non-existent. Trust me, the rest of the country does not want to look like CA. We have over 2.6 million illegal immigrants just in CA and illegal immigration costs CA residents over 25 billion per year (based on the fair report). We also have the highest homeless population, real poverty rate (over 20%), highest cost of living and highest taxes in the country. With an extra 25 billion per year, CA could solve many of it's problems and provide financial resources for victims of the fires who lost their homes/family and actually pay taxes here.
99
Very well stated.
30
@Jane Thank you and yours for obeying the law. I'm glad you are in our country!
22
@Jane Your numbers are wrong.
Illegal immigration costs CA residents like yourself only $2.5 MILLION per year. This number is based on a report from a well-known and reputable organization with no ties to white supremacists. Please STOP spreading fake news.
California also has the LOWEST homeless population and a poverty rate of LESS THAN 5%. Again, these numbers come from a well-known and reputable organization with no ties to white supremacists.
What United States needs to do is LOOSEN IMMIGRATION LAWS so that there is no incentive for anyone to enter the USA illegally.
16
Appeasement will not work; just like in 1939 when England tried to appease Hitler by throwing allies to the Nazis. Trump has no honor and his word is worthless. In America; we must not appease Trump; it just encourages him to want more.Toddlers were gassed at the border. This is not America. America does not gas toddlers in diapers and then defend it as being justified. No money for the wall. Ray Sipe
4
@Ray Sipe-- I'm sorry but why have these parents brought children into what is obviously a political conflict with a potential violence? I do not support this any more than I support people in the Middle East who use their children as human shields.
22
“...it is unclear what his country will get for housing tens of thousands of migrants”.
Obviously, as anyone sympathetic to the illegal immigrants will tell you, they’re a net benefit to the country! This is in Mexico’s best interests to take these people in. It’s a win-win!
24
Exactly right, Jon! These migrants will add gleaming threads to the cultural tapestry of Mexico and do wonders for the Mexican economy with their unparalleled work ethic. Mexico should be thrilled with the bounty at its doorstep. Bonus: no language barrier. This is going to be better than a free trade agreement to ensure the future prosperity of Mexico! We have kept this economic engine driving demographic treasure to ourselves for too long and now must share it with our neighbors. Canada, are you in?
30
"Mexicans are growing increasingly frustrated with the migrants’ presence, worried that they will take away jobs, resources and government attention from Mexican citizens."
Yes, so are American Citizens!!!
39
What is amazing to me is that most Mexicans show prejudice toward migrants coming from Central America altogether. Most Mexicans seem to only show empathy and acceptance toward migrants part of their own in-group when crossing the border. But when it comes to Central American migrants, they are the most discriminated against and stigmatized, and therefore, the most vulnerable. This is the reality. Yes, there is more political, economic, and social instability found in such respective Central American countries like Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Honduras. The question is, will Mexico start to take a compassionate and humane approach toward Central American migrants pleading for help in desperation and fear? I really do hope so.
6
No matter what Trump insists or what the Mexican government does, this problem will be resolved.
Almost certainly people smugglers are determining who among the caravan members have family in the U.S. who can and will pay to have them smuggled across the border.
This is a business opportunity for smugglers.
Those who don't have the means to contract a smuggler will soon tire of being stuck at the border.
They will either return to their homelands or settle in Mexico, where some 50,000 Central Americans make their homes.
Once the dust settles, Central American migration to the U.S. will resume. This migratory flow began in the 80s with the surge in political violence in Central America. It has never stopped since then.
Trump and lots of others falsely believe that the deployment of troops and use of tear gas and threat of imprisonment of kids will act as a deterrent or shut down immigration.
It won't. The border is harder to penetrate than it was 20 years ago, but it has not been sealed.
3
Build the wall.
11
The "surge in political violence in Central America" in the 80s was largely caused and exacerbated by the US.
What are the chances that the White House created "the Caravan", even those "rushing the border", to justify need for a wall, distract from economic concerns and even help with Mid Terms?
3
@Mooj
What are the chances? Zero to none. This is real. Nice try.
16
But how is that the USA's problem? Mexico let them cross into their country and then walk 1,500 miles through their land. That was a lot of time to figure out how to accommodate THEIR guests.
34
After Spain ransacked the lower Americas, these became independent. The new world master became the US, who thought of the lower Americas as their backyard via the Monroe doctrine and Olney and Roosevelt corollaries. There is no secret that the US has taken advantage of its southern neighbors for years. Its success has in part come at the cost of Latin America. Panama canal anyone? How about Guantanamo? I could go on, but I would digress. The reason Hondurans are coming is b/c the US has for decades used Honduras as their local base of operations to control Central America--Guatemalan coup in 57, Contras in the 80s... the little Honduran brother is now coming to big brother to ask for help? How does big brother treat them? tear gas and rubber bullets. If the citizens of the US want these caravans to stop, the US is should help improve social and economic conditions in those countries--conditions that are in bad shape, in part because of historical US intervention. Let me know if treating your neighbor like trash has ever worked for anyone.
2
@M Veliz Who has a better claim on US attention and resources? US citizens or foreign nationals?
19
Resources are limited, of course your own are first in line. However, unless we help these people in their home countries, they will come knocking on our door. case in point.
2
@M Veliz--Hondurans have had Temporary Protected Status in the US since 1999. They work legally and send billions of dollars home each year. Remittances are 10% of Honduras' economy. Sure doesn't seem like immigration to the US and money from the US have done anything to decrease poverty and violence in Honduras, does it?
7
It seems odd that the migrants are not seeking a better life in Brazil. Brazil is actively seeking teachers, engineers, and scientists to emigrate there. Maybe it is easier for those who speak Spanish to learn English rather than Portuguese.
9
@Robert Winchester, Ha! Because English is so much closer to Spanish than is Portuguese. Hence the popular expression, "I dunno man. It's Portuguese to me."
7
@Robert Winchester - It's not likely these people have that level of education.
14
@Robert Winchester, the reason they don't go to Brazil instead of the United States is not because English is easier to learn than Portuguese. For Spanish speakers, Portuguese is extremely easy to learn (grammatical and pronunciation differences but the roots of most words are identical). They prefer the U.S. to Brazil because in Brazil you MUST learn Portuguese; in the U.S., people never have to learn English. Do you think Brazilian schools teach children in languages other than Portuguese? (They'd laugh at you if you made such a demand.) Do you think you can vote in Brazil with a Spanish-language ballot? (They'd think you'd lost your mind if you suggested it.) Oh, and these economic migrants are not going to the teachers, engineers and scientists needed in Brazil. They are largely poor unskilled individuals (of which Brazil, like the U.S., already has plenty). The difference is the U.S. makes it easy to live here illegally. Brazil makes it impossible. You can't even get cable TV, request internet service, or sign a lease if you aren't legally resident in Brazil. In the U.S., we'll let you buy a house, start a business and (in "sanctuary jurisdictions") avoid deportation even if you commit a crime!
21
UNITED NATIONS - The United Nations agreed on Friday on wide-ranging ways to cope with the millions of migrants moving from country to country, overcoming “mistrust” and “difficult” issues to draw up the first-ever migration pact, officials said.
The non-binding agreement, approved by all 193 member nations except the United States that pulled out last year, aims to make migration safe and orderly amid issues of national sovereignty and international cooperation, U.N. officials said. July 13, 2018. So where are the representatives of the pack? Mexico had a key hand in drawing it up.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-migration-pact/un-countries-agree-on-pact-to-manage-mass-global-migration-idUSKBN1K32YW
4
Contrived Optics Catered to Trump's Narrative. All Eating this up with a Spoon--Gullible--Like to sell you some Trump Steaks-
5
Mass immigration is causing right wing governments to take power everywhere. I'm generally indifferent to immigration but I am not indifferent to a right wing government in the US. Something has to yield, and right now I am fine with that thing being immigration if more important things are preserved or accomplished.
Try again in another 20 years.
8
The South American countries built economies on the drug trade to America. And of course we were late to understand what exactly was happening. By then too many Americans were hooked on drugs being siphoned for an enormous profit. I am guessing if those drug cartels wanted to change the economy of any country in South America, they can. But like very rich people often think, they like to be rich alone, not uplift the rest of the minions around them. So what should we do, absolutely legalize drugs, kill their market, destroy the drug cartels economically so that ordinary folks in those countries will be forced to seek skills other than cooking up drugs. But, our government will never agree to this because too many rich Americans work hand in hand with these drug cartels to fill their own linings. In fact we made a mistake with drugs right from the beginning and are still paying for it.
http://thehistoryhacker.com/2013/08/12/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-the-harrison-act-turning-point-in-americas-relationship-with-drugs/
End result, desperation to leave their homelands for our shores. It is a losing situation for all. Terrible people governing in south America matched by an equally terrible governance here. I wonder who is profiting in all this noise, because there is always someone making merry from suffering.
5
Has everyone forgotten that the mainstream media poo-pooded Trumps concern over the migrant caravan walking through Mexico to invade the US? CNN reporters sarcastically said the women would be swishing their petticoats and the caravan would be expected to arrive sometime around Christmas at the rate they were going. Only 4000 they said and this is a threat to the US? I guessed at the time they would not be walking and I guess right. Who paid to bus the masses to Tijuana? Please don't tell me it was a little church group in central Mexico.
26
Mexico...a sovereign country not at war...failed to prevent these foreign nationals from illegally stampeding across their southern border. Now it’s THEIR problem...NOT ours.
31
I sure hope it's clear that the Trump administration's immigration machinations, and the President's manipulative rhetoric...is the cause of the looming violent crisis at the border.
If the violence escalates, Trump will have what he needs to justify his inhumane, ignorant perceptions and policies.
I hope it's clear has he caused what is occurring; I hope so for all those desperately seeking asylum in earnest in this country. And, I hope so for the future of this country.
Because he is manipulating our media, our democracy, our rights, and the indomitable spirit of the American people every single day...in many, many seen and unseen ways.
2
Trump said the tear gas was "safe". Excuse me? You don't spray "safe" anything to deter. It was meant to debilitate. Trump has no idea what's going on. He is ridiculously ineffective as a leader. An imposter-pretending to be President. He gives a medal to an Icon from the 50's-he said people told him he looked like Elvis. Bonkers. He is only at home on stage at rallies in the South. A slim, paper thin, niche he should stay in.
4
Utilizing tear gas on women and children is no substitute for cogent, reasonable immigration laws. Perhaps if Trump’s administration would cease posturing and create a viable, constitutional immigration plan, we could move forward. Reading the comments here , it is clear that some folks are buying into the propaganda that the left are only for open borders and wish to have an open door policy for “ illiterates and unskilled people.”
What we need is for the President and Congress to do their job, not point fingers with lies and misdirection.
4
Mexico has encouraged millions of its own citizens to move to America and reaped the benefits of cash remittances. Without those remittances, there would be a revolution. The least it can do is require anyone who crosses illegally into its own territory to either become Mexican or go home.
30
No country in the world will tolerate large groups storming the border. The next step is firing on them. "But what about the children?" Leave your kids at home if you don't want them to get injured when you try to force your hand. I cannot believe so many people put their kids in harm's way. Human shields, just like ISIS and The Taliban would do.
32
If you can’t see the obscenity of a para-military police force in full riot gear firing tear gas at children, then you, not the children or their mothers, are the problem. One step away from live-rounds. Is it already too late to step back?
6
@johnyjoe Better to use non-lethal force to deter would be invaders than to allow invaders to enter the country.
6
Other, more thorough news organizations are reporting that a fair number of these illegals have turned around and gone home, facing the reality that for once America wasn't simply going to cow in the face of political correctness and misguided progressive persuasion and just let everyone in to join the other 22 million illegals here. Good news.
I disagree with Trump on every other issue, but I'll hand it to him here. Does anyone doubt that if Hillary Clinton or virtually anyone else from either party were president, we'd simply be taking in these people to be subsidized by America's taxpayers forever?
30
@Philboyd - The migrants fully expected that the gates at the border would be opened up for them. Good for Trump.
23
A commenter below named Sunspot describes his/her compassion for “these beautiful young families with their adorable children.” Sunspot then goes on to recommend that we not only “welcome” them all in but that they all be granted asylum. Setting aside the fact that the majority of the caravan members are apparently childless males, it does make one wonder if all it takes to ignore the rule of law is a cute kid or, failing procreation, a puppy or kitten.
Would it be okay by Sunspot and his/her open borders fellow travelers if someone came to squat in his/her home or on his/her land as long as they were young, good looking and held up a toddler or small animal? When, if ever, does critical thinking come into play about the level of immigration this country and its individual states and cities can financially and culturally handle?
Do people who share Sunspot’s inclination think about the fairness of imposing on the nation the burden to house, feed, educate, and provide healthcare for these uninvited immigrants and their current & eventual children at a time when we have far too many of our own who need such provision? Does it make some feel better about themselves to excitedly welcome the next wave rather than engage in the heavy lifting of dealing with the existing challenges of intractable poverty, homelessness, addiction, elder/child neglect and abuse, etc? There just seems to be little thought for our own people that goes into the ‘welcome them all’ stance.
36
Mexico, for whatever reason, allowed these people to cross its southern border without let or hinderence. Now they are reaping what they sowed, as the US has not done the same.
I do not know Mexican immigration law, but I suspect that these people are in Mexico illegally. There is a certain irony in Mexico having the same problem with citizens of their southern neighbors as we have had with their citizens.
28
When will a world leader stand up to our Bully in Chief? CS gas was banned in International conflict in 1993. CS gas has been classified as a Chemical Weapon. United States border control agents launched a Chemical Weapon across an International border. Obrador, when he takes office on December first, should appeal to the United Nations Security Council and the World Court for redress.
1
The US has outsourced many jobs, because it is cheaper to hire labor in Mexico and China than to support our own citizens in their quest to feed and educate their children.Then, as we drive down their wages, we bring in people who will work more cheaply directly into out country. Of course, the jobs they seek here have been, or soon will be, outsourced. So, in keeping with this practice of outsourcing, why shouldn't the US have the asylum seekers wait in Mexico? It's more competitive to outsource.
12
It's easy to pass judgement on the migrants and to say what we should do or not do about it. But out of the many comments here, there aren't many that ask the question what is leading these people to desperately flee their countries? What are the connections between the governments in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras and our own government? America has a long history of backing coups and regime changes in Latin American countries, helping to destabilize forces by upending legitimately elected leaders in favor of right wing dictatorships with ties to the U.S.
3
@Martha
The goodies. They are coming for the goodies. Just like the illegal migrants in Europe who want to go Germany and Great Briton, these migrants want to force their way into the US for the goodies they think they will get from a rich country. Do I need to be more specific? Others are having no problem understanding this concept.
11
@Martha Most people are aware of the sad history of US intervention and imperialism in the region. I am also aware of various permutations of racism and capitalism that impact American citizens in my state.
But it doesn't matter how intellectually aware I am of these things, I am not going to react well to someone who shows up in my home without my permission and won't leave. They may well be a victim of every "ism" in the world, but they can't be in my home unless I say so. And the same logic applies to countries.
4
Many Americans have a bad case of immigration indigestion.
Unfortunately, the only relief or option(s) we've been given has been Trump. If this continues as is, Trump or another GOP will be in the White House in 2020. This border crisis is inevitably going to get worse. And it will not slow or stop within our lifetimes. The deluge is coming. Count on it to happen. Right now, it is a mere trickle. The future is not what it used to be.
20
When the US had porous borders and practiced "catch and release", Mexico was happy playing travel agent and skimming money from those passing through the country. Those of us who want vigorously enforced US immigration laws, always knew the Mexicans would have a different view of these folks if enforced the border and the "immigrants" ended up staying in Mexico.
We should soon see Mexico do a better job of policing its southern border. This is all to the good and as it should be.
43
Dear Kurfco, please tell the whole story. Mexico has already offered one million work visas to Central American migrants. But they want to go to the U.S.A. because that is the country who owes them. Poverty and violence in Central America have its roots in American politics.
@Patricia L. Guerra
The poverty and violence are of their own making and of their own backward cultures.
Mexico has needed for 30+ years to police its borders and govern itself, given its vast wealth and resources. It also long ago needed separation of church and state in order to provide widespread birth control and women's rights that would've stemmed much of its overpopulation crisis that mirrors that of Central American and South America. For the same reasons. Instead, Mexico left all the heavy lifting to the U.S. taxpayer, exporting its unwanted poorest, criminal and illiterate as an endless relief valve. Central America and many South American countries have done the same.
Central America has always been a semi-literate military dictatorship religious 3rd world crapshoot filled with violent males and female breeding livestock chattel.
9
@Maggie
In the interest of accuracy, please exclude Costa Rica.
Mexico has quickly discovered that what goes around comes around. After sending close to 20% of its population to the US -- a good way to lower the flame on social dissent among the poor as well as reap billions in subventions sent back to Mexico by those up north -- it's faced with the Central American invasion. Average Mexicans don't like illegal immigration any more than average Americans, probably less as the Mexican concept of La Raza has stronger racialist undertones than the US's idea of being a nation of immigrants. Mexico has made generous offers to the migrants of jobs and settlement, but like the migrants invading Europe, they don't want to stop anywhere but in the Fat Land: in Europe that means Germany; in Central America it means the US. Of course we need a wall. We can't take all the world's poor, and capitulating to the caravan would send a terrible signal of weakness. Neither can Mexico. The solution? Maintain the troops on the border as long as the assaults on US sovereignty continue and provide BILLIONS in support to Mexico for providing humane settlement policies for those Central Americans who will avail themselves of the offer. As for the rest: send them home. The shaky order of the world cannot afford the disruption of desperate mobs. If they made it to the US they would immediately become wards of the state: the great bulk don't have the educations or skills to succeed in a 21st century economy.
44
US must work with Mexico to create an economic zone in the southern border of Mexico that can employ these poor, desperate people from Central America fleeing their countries; they should be able to apply for asylum to the US while employed there. US is not the ideal destination for these folks - having a large underclass is not a good thing for our society as this underclass will become resentful over a generation or two. What US needs to do is create programs to pull the poor US citizens, and the poor illegal immigrants already in the US, out of poverty first through health care access, adequate nutrition, good education and vocational training, and a right to work.
10
What are the true causes of the violence and lawlessness in those Central American countries that are the source of all these asylum seeking migrants? Could it be the North American demand for drugs and the gangs formed in the drug culture of the U.S. ? Maybe we should re-think our national priorities? The migrants are not the sources of crime in the U.S. They are the result of American criminal activities. Building Trump's "big beautiful wall"will not prevent criminal activity originating in the United States.
58
@RLW - The "result of American criminal activities" is exactly correct. And as we know, one man's crime is another man's loophole.
What are the usual suspects when it comes to crime originating in America? For your pedestrian blue-collar crime, it is poverty. And is not the source of poverty in the richest country the world has ever known white collar crime.?
If we can be bothered to look at our history of corporate adventurism over the past 100 years we will notice that it is the satisfaction of the US demand you refer to by the American and multi-national companies, those that tend to our wants and needs which, by the power vested in them, and derived from, the lawmakers we put into office and profit from this largesse, have left in their wake the socio-economic mess that is today most of Central America.
It is too tempting to once again make the analogy of the missionary who recently tried to bring enlightenment to a small island of indigenous people. His mistake was to not bring an army along for support.
And so, after 100 years of displacement by force, these people have no place to go that they can live in peace. We as Americans know this, or once did at any rate, which is one reason we have amnesty laws.
Regardless of Trump's insouciant dismissals, we did repel these migrants with tear gas. Unless he wants to claim it's all CGI fake news. We DO know how to make a war movie, no?
Wait. Hmm . . . Has anyone seen George Lucas and Trump in the same room lately?
4
@Skeexix--Central Americans have benefited from the 1986 amnesty, NACARA in the 90s, and Temporary Protected Status. Honduras got TPS in 1999 and El Salvador in 2001. Literally hundreds of thousands of citizens from these countries work legally in the US, and send billions of dollars home. Remittances are 10% of Honduras' economy and 17% of El Salvador's, and rising. Now, if conditions in these countries are worse, then it sure seems to me that immigration to the US is NOT a solution to the problems of these countries, and may even contribute to their problems. Having a large chunk of your working age population overseas, leaving kids behind with elderly relatives, and receiving remittances which attract the gangs, doesn't seem to me to be a recipe for stability.
13
@RLW--If our demand for drugs CAUSED Latin America's problems, then our nearer neighbor to the north, Canada, would have them as well. The underlying cause of Latin America's problems, and the drug cartels, is corruption in Latin America. Heck, Mexico, one of the richest countries in the world, #15 in GDP, is also one of the most corrupt, 135 out of 180, according to Transparency International. You can do what you want about drugs in the US, but fact is, the cartels will turn to other illegal enterprises. In fact, they already have--including people smuggling, trafficking, document fraud, and extortion. Until corruption in Latin America is addressed by Latin Americans, they will never have stability.
14
Is it only me, or does this whole thing seem to be contrived?
The whole 'immigrant caravan' has the looks of an orchestrated event. The simplest and cheapest group to motivate is usually the one with the greatest need. The story also serves the needs of American Nationalism.
3
It's utter mayhem. For people showing such sheer desperation-and so many-the cause must be mitigated. It's not America's problem but America borders Mexico and has a history of dastard dealings with Mexico. Surely there must be a diplomatic means for compassion. To deny this would be a huge mistake.
1
I do not believe people in America can fully understand what a delicate situation this is. I remember the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, when Mayor Daley "let the dogs out" (the Chicago police and Illinois National Guard, all armed with nightsticks) on about 15,000 people. They had a permit and when they were peacefully protesting the Vietnamese War. Unfortunately, many people were beaten senseless hospitalized, and arrested. On May 4, 1970 at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio, 4 unarmed students peacefully demonstrating for the same thing (to get out of Vietnam) were shot dead by the Ohio National Guard. They were simply in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
The US soldiers on the American side of "the wall", at the Mexican border at Tijuana have admittedly fired tear gas and shot people people with rubber bullets on the Mexican side of the wall. The soldiers claimed this was in response to some people throwing "rocks and/or other objects" at them. Rubber bullets can blind, and stop someone's heart or kill if struck in the temple. This place is a very bad situation, waiting to happen.
The soldiers need to be removed; or at the least, not shoot anyone with tear gas or any kind of bullets. If not, I think it is only a matter of time before someone could be killed. I truly hope not.
1
No soldiers fired tear gas,it was the Border Patrol responding to people forcing their way into the U.S.
10
@Easy Goer - It was the border agents who utilized the tear gas and rubber bullets not the soldiers. Incidentally the Libyan militia, in a recent incident, stormed a cargo ship and used tear gas and rubber bullets on a large group of African migrants who were rescued and would not disembark in Libya after a ten day standoff. They wanted to be taken to Italy. What else can they do?Negotiations had no impact.
6
First, the best way not to be tear gassed or shot is to stop rushing the border of a sovereign nation. Second, get your facts straight. No U.S. soldiers shot tear gas or rubber bullets-the U.S. Border Patrol did and they were acting within existing policies when they did so. The last time this happened was in 2013 but, since Obama was President, you probably sounded no alarm.
16
Could the firing of tear gas canisters into Mexico across the U.S. border be considered an act of war by the U.S. against the territorial integrity of Mexico? Just asking...I don't know the answer.
@RLW, probably not, although Mexico could try to make that claim if it wished to. The definition of an act of war in the case of war between nations is "shots fired in anger." Not sure that crowd control like tear gas qualifies as "shots" nor that Mexico would try to claim that they were fired in anger against Mexico. In any event, modern nations use such language very sparingly since they have to live with each other afterwards. Makes good fodder on the internet, but not so good out in the real world.
7
I don't think Mexico suddenly considers the use of tear gas or pepper spray an act of war. When Obama was President he authorized their use and during some months of his administration they were used, according to public records, over twenty times. Maybe at the time, these actions were not considered newsworthy.
10
People massing on the border waving foreign flags, making demands and throwing rocks are not asylum seekers.
The ugly truth is that El Salvador , Guatemale and Honduras are all unpleasant places to live. But it is not, and yes I am aware of the ugly history of US imperialism, the responsibility of the US to allow anyone from the entirety of Central America, South America, and the Caribbean to enter the US in whatever numbers they like.
34
It IS NOT our responsibility to let them in, in any numbers they like
9
CAN’T SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES”. An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole.
The migrant caravan that has arrived at out southern border is a very compelling story that has evoked a strong response from people on both sides of the issue. But it is only the visible face of the problem, the tip of the iceberg so to speak. What I find missing (for the most part) in the reporting and discussion is an attempt to present this situation as part of a bigger picture. For example:
Right now we see 5000+ poor migrants trying to cross our border to seek asylum or find a better life in the United States. This number is eclipsed by the fact that in October 2018 alone there were 60,000 people that made it across our southern border and were caught. In the last 12 months there were 522,000 caught.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
The more I read the more questions I have.
If half a million were caught last year, how many made it across undetected?
How many more people came here on various types of Visas and stayed?
While I can appreciate many of the sentiments expressed on both sides of this issue, I wish the reporters and commenters would consider and present these current events in a broader context.
28
If seeking political stability and a better economy is a reason to claim asylum in a foreign country, then shouldn't those of us who want less gun violence and someone more stable than Trump for president get to show up in Denmark and claim "asylum?"
I am am empathetic person but this is getting completely out of hand. These migrants passed through multiple other countries where they speak their language but didn't stop there. They showed a total disregard for our laws already by running around police and trying to find "another way" into the country. It's testing my better nature with every article I read.
Unfortunately, those of us watching this mayhem with a level head get to choose between the abhorrent "build the wall" xenophobia of Trump, and the insane "Abolish ICE/ open borders" nonsense of the left.
Mexico has had it both ways for far too long - they get to be the compassionate ones who let migrants through their country, but they pass them on to the USA without needing to actually deal with them. Enough. Either they start accepting these migrants and setting them up with Mexican working papers, housing, etc, or they stop them at the southern border. They can't have it both ways because neither can the USA.
The conundrum the article describes as Mr. López Obrador feeling - balancing empathy and standing up for the poor with national security and rule of law - is EXACTLY how many of us here feel. Let him have a turn.
37
I am glad to see Mexico being squeezed in this situation, as I believe that Mexico has been far too passive in the illegal immigration issue. They've been content to just let hordes of Central Americans into their country, metaphorically waving to them as they go by on their way to the Savior Nation, the US, which people believe can accomodate an endless flood of poor and unskilled people (never mind that for decades we haven't solved our own homeless problem, nor are we yet able to provide adequately for our own disabled, elderly and infirm, or our poor) and solve everyone's problems...because, hey, we are the Saviors.
The left in particular needs to come to terms with its "Savior Complex" and get down to brass tacks -- in my Left Coast city, homelessness is increasing every year. Yesterday at one street intersection, right in front of the entry to a business, was a mentally ill person on the sidewalk wrapped in a blanket. Three out of 4 corners of the street were occupied by homeless people. A 2nd corner featured a woman sitting on the sidewalk next to her shopping cart yelling obscenities. The 3rd street corner featured a small tent set up off the sidewalk, illegally on private property-- the lawn of an apartment building. An article in my local paper features a story exploring the dilemma of affordable housing -- how the median home price in my city is now $1,245,000. And the left wants to import more poor and unskilled people here?
95
Where did your ancestors come from, Oakbranch?
Neil Diamond has a reminder of what America really is. Watch and learn:
Neil Diamond America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrgCxSSwBto
4
@Oakbranch We are more than able to provide food and shelter for all the people in this country. We just don't. The problem you describe and the examples you cite are inequality, not scarcity.
14
@Oakbranch, They hand out maps and pathways for those migrating through their country. Their border patrol assists them towards the US border. As they've done for millions of their own undesirable citizens.
18
Mexico should not have let them in. To claim we are causing humanitarian crisis is not taking responsibility in the first place. But now that they are at our border US and Mexico should work and spend together to get them settled while applying lawfully for asylum. It will probably take until trump is out of office to process at a timely rate unfortunately.
6
I remember well after Angela Merkel's open arms to 'refugees' a story of German people waiting for these newcomers at the railway stations, as 3,000 entered in one single day, and were greeted with waves from the German people, and were provided food, housing and healthcare. Then, the next day and for many days afterward, each and every day another 3,000 migrants entered Germany, until their system was overwhelmed, buildings were converted solely for the use of the newly arrived migrants. People stopped coming to greet the newcomers. Worries surfaced about how Germany was going to foot the bill for all of these new asylum seekers.
Something in this article about Central Americans crossing Mexico is that in addition to the thousands already huddled at the border crossing 'thousands more are on their way'. This feels so reminiscent of what happened in Germany just in the past few years, where that nation now searches for solutions to the urgent problem of dealing with all of these newcomers.
If a nation cannot create its own enforceable laws and rules on immigration, of what good or use is legal immigration. Those who want to enter illegally or under the guise of 'asylum', and resort to breaking through barriers and throwing rocks may well be a portent to what will happen without enforcement.
As with Germany, Greece and Italy, how may 'migrants' will be let into our nation, will it be wave after wave after wave, all of them clamoring for amnesty?
93
@Tim B - An informative document, "The Problem With the 1951 Refugee Convention" (Google search) prepared in 2000, is worth noting.
. . . the problem with the Convention is that it was developed in and for a different era. Its focus is the resulting problems that have been identified since the late 1980s with the operation of the Convention in Western countries.
•the Convention takes no account of the impact (political, financial, social) of large numbers of asylum seekers on receiving countries
22
@Tim B Well the Dems promised that this would never happen, promised that only a few hundred would show, lies of course, but what do we do? Some people are no doubt fleeing criminal violence in Honduras. But it's also plausible many of these people are economic migrants. Fleeing poverty is not grounds for asylum. I'm beginning to think the point is to overwhelm US border authorities. Claims for asylum are supposed to be determined by immigration judges. They can't just be forced back over the border (although that would be a sensible legal reform.) The backlog is now huge. The expectation is that the government will release the migrants pending a hearing, at which point they can just disappear into the hinterland...yes? What if they don't want to wait. We don't want to repeat when the caravan were halted in a confrontation with the border patrol with tear gas. The caravan is an humanitarian crisis with possible economic & border security implications that we can't begin to contemplate. And lets be clear. It's a crisis because neither political party is handling it well. It will get worse as more people arrive. It's a visual reminder our immigration system is totally broken. This feels like a ticking time bomb. Its just a matter of time before the caravan in Mexico becomes frustrated, rushes the border,& tries to enter illegally. So what do we do? Wait until the surge overcomes the wire entanglements and they run over here. Then what? Snap decisions rarely have good results.
5
Lopez Obrador must face a totally unpredictable unhelpful interlocker in Trump. Trump sees his reelection chances intimately tied up in demagoguing up the immigration issue.
2
"[application for asylum] a process that could squeeze them into squalid, overcrowded shelters for months, possibly even years."
These modern day conquistadors, like those before, are poor and seeking economic opportunity at the expense of an indigenous population -- United States citizens. :)
In truth we are all immigrants (as best we understand the archaeological and now genetic record) from Africa.
The question for every current citizen of the United States is do you want to go the way of the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas?
Tribes of people, including Europeans, have displaced one another throughout all of human history. Ignore that?
27
@TOM, might I remind you as well that all higher forms of life all came originally from the oceans. Why stop devolution at the shore line? I've always admired the fact that fish don't draw boundary lines in their waters.
5
@John Doe
Well, it may be true that fish don't draw boundary lines but it is also true that big fish eat little fish ... and the hard lesson of history is that the big fish make the rules. You may wish otherwise, but Darwin was right.
15
@John Doe...Territoriality in the realms of flora and fauna is a reality. Just because you don't "see" any borders on some map doesn't mean they aren't there....As far as the origin of live, you can push the argument all the way back to the Big Bang.
5
The Con Don is causing trouble with Canada and Mexico because he and his International Mafia brethren - demented people like Netanyahu and Putin - want WW3.
Fear-anger-hate-death-destruction always starts it fed, of course, by organized religion. Then the chaos begins and the International Mafia boys like Steve Bannon are happy to feed it by fomenting acts of violence around the world.
WE THE PEOPLE - average peace-loving people - must not allow them to cause further chaos and destruction. WE must DEMAND that our "leaders" do not allow things to escalate.
WE have the power and every single person must step up and fight like hell to preserve the relative peace and prosperity WE have enjoyed since WWII.
4
The suggestion of the incoming Mexican president to work together with Central American countries and the U.S. to ease the flood of immigration through economic development is:
--practical and refreshing;
--compassionate;
--creates new opportunity for cooperation in our hemisphere;
--could lead to less hysteria among people who fear that the U.S. is changing demographically;
--Christian in its foundation on helping the poor.
--sensible in reducing tensions between the U.S. and our neighbors;
--reduces the need to detain families, take kids from parents, or fire tear gas at desperate moms and kids;
--would probably cost less than militarizing the border with thousands of BP and now the US Army;
I am tempted to say something cynical to end that chain, but I am tired of the sound of cynicism rattling in my ears. This is a humanitarian crisis; maybe we ought to dig into our better nature and try to do something with heart, and just see if that works.
6
@T.H. Wells
Well said.
The bipartisan immigration bills that Democrats and Republicans in Congress gave Trump to sign already did some of this. He opted not to sign them. In order to retain his base, he needed the lies, demonization and fear.
1
Mr Ford knew about this before it ever happened ? He is contemptible in the fall of G.M along with the Ontarios experiment with basic income project. Any other political party would hear about the disgust in such a decision but Ford just shrugs it off as a piece of data his egotistical mind only knew . Does Mr Ford own incorporated businesses where he gets off on paying taxes at normal Canadian rate ? Like Trump he does not want anyone knowing these facts .
Mexico became responsible for these people when they allowed them into their country. Do they expect a free pass because they intended to be complicit in letting these people crash their neighbor's borders? Sorry Mexico-- you behaved irresponsibly. Consider applying to the U.N. for aid.
We are behaving exactly the way be have behaved for years-- processing their applications for asylum in our normal manner. The governments to blame in this matter are Hondura and Mexico.
20
We must come up with a different method of housing these people. The numbers seeking asylum are huge. Expecting Mexico to care for these people is unrealistic. It will take a very long time to process all these asylum seekers. Mexico will just be overwhelmed by the problem. Trump’s attitude is that he’s just going to let someone else deal with it until they don’t is typical nonsense from him. What will happen is nearly all of the people will sneak across the border while Mexico just lets their problem become ours.
The U.S. is going to have to step up and to deal with this problem with some mindful enlightened self interest instead of the base selfishness that Trump brings to it. We can afford to support temporary housing for these people. It’s the right thing to do.
But it’s time to address the problems in Central America that are creating these migrations. These countries are being overwhelmed by insecurity, crime, and poverty. They must be made good places for people to live.
Mexico is being hammered by our drug abusers, we are responsible for the violence and corruption that our people are causing to our neighbor to the South. We must help Americans end this long nightmare of substance abuse. Decriminalize drug possession and treat it like a serious behavioral problem that it is. Decriminalizing drugs will not end drug abuse, it will probably increase but it can make it unprofitable to smuggle and save millions from criminal histories that keep them poor.
2
@Casual Observer - "We can afford to support temporary housing for these people. It is the right thing to do" Well, I for one am surprised by that, as it appears we cannot afford temporary housing for the thousands of people displaced by the Camp fire, Hurricane Michael and so on, how is it the money would be available for these 'asylum' seekers. When you see women with children in desperate situations it is heart rending, but there is a big calculation there on their part. Children tend to be a passport across the border and are used as such. More than a few of the women are pregnant. How do they expect to support themselves once here if they already had to sell their tent to buy food? The answer is obvious. It is just a great pity that the largesse of support these people are marching towards is not readily available to the many needy legal citizens living in this country.
10
@Casual Observer, once we find good and secure dwellings for all our American military veterans, mentally ill homeless, and senior citizens struggling with housing and food insecurity, so many Americans will be ready to start looking for temporary dwellings for immigrants who are obviously coming for economic reasons and thus wrecking the future prospects of their home countries and abandoning their own veterans, mentally ill, and senior citizens. But not before.
7
That's ridiculous, we haven't been able to house the victims from Florida Panhandle, & California wildfires.
3
The first use of tear gas was likely a surprise to the migrants, catching them unaware.
From now on, any of them that try to cross should be fully aware they are placing themselves and their children at risk of tear gas. The full responsibility rests on them.
14
Wait, based on many commenters and reports, I thought the caravan was weeks away from the border and that many/most would settle in Mexico rather than try to get into the US? Well, there are thousand there now and they do not want to stay in Mexico (and Mexico doesn't want them to stay).
10
Anyone found entering or within our country illegally gets a big 'fail'. We should NEVER allow them to be considered for anything. No temporary status, no green card, no citizenship EVER. This may help deter some. You enter our house through the window you are a criminal. No chances of staying or granted anything but the boot. Permanently. Forever.
This is Australia rules in regards to immigration and it works.
22
This article has some nuggets of real information, but it's been laced with feel-goods and political asides to the point that it's difficult to get through. A straight-up article on what's going on in Mexico would have been far more useful to an American electorate trying to stay informed.
The American media, not counting the kool-aid drinking Trumpian outlets, universally portrayed the caravan during the election cycle as a tiny meaningless movement of 100% desperate asylum seekers that the President was completely blowing up out of proportion -- nothing to see here, back to 24/7 politics. Do you understand, any of you, that President Trump can now claim an "I told you so" and a huge allegation of "fake news" on almost all of the media now?
There is a news collector run by the United Nations called reliefweb.int on which you can either see highlighted or search for UNHCR reports on these caravans. The USCIS has a whole site of very succinctly summarized and full text references for all of American immigration law. It might surprise NYTimes readers to know that UNHCR has been regarding this as a humanitarian event since the caravans started, has evaluated them as a "mixed stream", and has been responding to Mexican requests for aid.
Other organizations you see in refugee flows, like the ICRC, have been on these flows for years. If you want news that is dry, factual, but better informed and more precise than the NYTimes mix and match entertainment here, go there.
3
Let's be clear. The chaos confronting Mr. Obrador and the rest of us at our southern border was caused by Mr. Trump. He has continually lied about immigrants and demonized them. And this daily dishonesty and hate is the basis for this administration's very real policies.
Before he arrived, the southern border was secure. The number of folks crossing the southern border had been going down for decades. By the numbers, the principal source of undocumented immigrants was elsewhere, namely, folks who overstayed visas.
Trump has needlessly sent thousands of soldiers to the border. He has dishonestly used incendiary terms like "invasion." Our own laws require us to consider all applications for asylum. And yet he calls these families "rapists," "terrorists," "bad people."
Yesterday, his border patrol teargassed women, children, and even babies in strollers.
3
@Robert, almost none of what you said was true. The caravans were initiated in Central America without the aid of President Trump. The only political influence on their forming was that the opposition party in Honduras did try to make them bigger to shame the government, and to some extent their size is a result of that, but most of the people in them were thinking of trying to go anyway. The number of people crossing the Southern border decreased due to the recession, it had peaked in 2003-2005, and has not been going down for decades, the number of unaccompanied minors spiked in 2014-5, for instance.
Our treatment and influx of undocumented immigrants and where they come from has nothing at all to do with people who have left Central America due to persecution or for labor and have not entered the U.S. at all yet.
Please try to be factual. It takes two to tango, and while I agree with you that President Trump has vastly inflamed this and has told scads of whoppers about it, it doesn't help at all to repeat whoppers from the opposing side, either.
4
@ondelette
According to both this paper and NPR, illegal border crossings have been going down steadily since 2000, i.e., for almost two decades (with only a minor uptick in 2005). See, for instance:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html
and
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/22/622246815/unauthorized-immigration-in-three-graphs
Groups of people like this one have been traveling and arriving together for a long time. This one is little different than the others, besides the Trump lies and propaganda about it.
It is Trump's policies that are causing a typical situation to become incendiary. For example he has sent soldiers to the border and authorized them to use deadly force against civilians. He has falsely claimed they were terrorists and rapists.
These other claims that I have made are also correct:
For instance, many more undocumented immigrants are here because they have overstayed their visas than because they crossed a border illegally.
Our own laws and treaty obligations for require us to consider every application for asylum.
1
@Robert
Illegal border crossings by MEXICANS have been decreasing - because of the 80 million that already crossed since the 1960s open border.
However, illegal border crossings by Central Americans was always equally as high and has exploded over the last 2 decades.
3
If they are in Mexico illegally & not obeying its laws, then it is up to Mexico to deport them all back to their countries. Evidently they do not want to enter the US legally. The woman with the twins & 3 other children said she was trying to join the father of her children in Louisiana. Is he here illegally? If not why is he not trying to help her get here legally? Rushing the border is an action that should be discouraged by the activists who are promising these people instant access. The activists are going to get people hurt. There is nothing here any more for them. They should apply for asylum in Mexico where they speak the same language & can get help. Then try to apply for assistance to come to the US legally. If Mexico doesn't want them, then deport them back.
I know conditions are horrible & that most are due to the US interference in those countries years ago. trump cutting off aid to those countries is not the answer to getting the immigrants controlled. Maybe the US should invade those countries again & set up the activists as the government & see how well they can run the country.
5
Not even mentioned in the article the brother of the Honduran President arrested for drug trafficking in the United States. New Mexican President going to help solve that problem somehow? We cannot take them all so why are they coming? Let them in and more will follow so why would we let them in? What will Mexico get for housing the migrants? Their wonderful presence and all the wonderful things being promised to the United States should we allow them in not enough?
4
Would the NYT reporters do the job of reporting and give a serious analysis of the countries of origin? What is so wrong with Honduras? And please, no more 'is the USA intervention etc' - and if so, let's have a factual analysis: when did the US intervene, why, how long did said intervention last, what precisely was the damage done to Honduras society and why is the only possible outcome mass emigration to the US, the very origin of evil. IN addition, assuming the US is culpable, has the US under various D presidents taken any steps lately to course-correct, invest, help civil society actors improve the lot of the population? Somehow it all does not add up and factual reporting, free of implied agenda and emotional blackmail, would go a long away to enlighten the readership. What we most hear related to motives for leaving Honduras is a culture of violence, not political or religious repression: domestic abuse, LGBT abuse, extortion, gang killings, daily brutality. If this is true, how can we help? Surely, Honduras society is not composed solely of cold-blooded criminals and helpless victims in need of American saviors; surely, there are people on the ground in Honduras working - unnoticed by NYT - to deal with social and cultural challenges: who are they and how can US civil society and government outfits help them? I really wish to hear much less about what Trump is doing and much more about the actual situation in Honduras and neighboring countries.
9
Any and all of us might be among those migrants
if we faced what they faced.
I would like to know how many of those waiting at the
border have family in the U.S.
2
First off its a mistake to put AMLO and Trump in the same category. Andres Manuel is a respected leader who managed as leader of Mexico City to deal with people from the dirt poor to Carlos Slim.
Second it was a clear mistake to permit this "caravan" of migrants to cross the Guatemala border into Mexico. They and whomever was behind their impulse took advantage of the transitional state of Mexican presidency.
The entire hemisphere could get together and come up with development plans and humane solutions. OK if need be leave out the US, or just don´t invite Trump but invite some of the many economists, industry leaders and valid US politicians to participate. Mexico, Canada, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia - lots of experience and good people willing to work on a solution.
This "caravan" presented the US president with a rare opportunity to exercise the evilest of his terrible impulses. The US needs a time out. Welcome AMLO! As a 14 yr Permanent Resident of MX and proud US citizen I can report that many many people from all levels of society I run into are very relieved and happy a decent smart experienced leader is in charge. In México that is.
2
A great idea! Make illegal aliens wait in Mexico rather than being released into the US, where they almost always disappear and fail to appear for their court hearings.
As for the 500 illegals who tried to crash through our border, the Mexican Interior Ministry has said it intends to deport those who were arrested.
Note that Obama also used force and tear gas in 2013 when a large group of illegal aliens stormed our border and threw rocks and bottles at our agents in the very same location as the incident two days ago. (San Diego Times Union, 11/25/13)
Even then-Senator Obama had a lot to say about illegal immigrants (speech, 12/15/05):
“We need a guest worker program to replace the flood of illegals with a regulated stream of legals who enter the United States after checks and with access to labor rights.”
“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”
“We need to start by giving agencies charged with border security new technology, new facilities, and more people to stop, process and deport illegal immigrants.”
Finally, Mexico has offered residence and work permits to the masses in the caravans and at our border, but the vast majority are seeking economic improvement and therefore turned down Mexico in favor of trying to enter the U.S. (the land of free everything) illegally.
10
The chaos at the border is largely the fault of México. Imagine if millions of Mexicans were trying to illegally enter Canada and the US did all it could to assist those migrants in their journey to the Canadian border. And then the US President complained and criticized the US President about the problems the migrants were bringing and about the Canadian attempts to leave the Mexicans in the US and not allow them in to Canada. It’s a sad joke. No liberal has open borders on their homes or gated communities. But as long as other Americans suffer, the left is content with the moral high ground it believes it holds.
12
I am glad to see many of the comments are supportive of not letting want to be asylum seekers into our country before appropriate processing before they are allowed in.The few comments about the cruelty this inflicts on the seekers of asylum
would be better directed at the individuals trying to rush our boarders.In no other country in the world would this garbage be tolerated
11
“We don’t use it on children.”
There must be rakes keeping the gas away from children. Genius idea.
2
NYT is giving Mr. Obrador bad press even before events are in. The comparison with Trump is completely out of order. Not very objective reporting. After little if any serious coverage of his campaign, his cabinet and his program, it just uses its usual rubrics "firebrand" "populist" and now, Trump's counterpart, of all tags, to report to a misinformed North American public (next thing he will be compared to Bolsonaro in Brazil...). Serious reporting on Mexico should be a priority given the standing of that country as a neighbor to the south. International and domestic issues there also affect this country, Instead, we mostly get some op eds by the usual talking heads Krauser and Jorge Castaneda. Open a desk down there and tap a broader sector of the political spectrum. Or at least more reporting so that readers with some expertise on the place can comment.
5
i find it hard to believe the chunky woman with 2 kids
walked 1000 miles. Kids have no shoes. She had to
either been paid, or is a resident of TJ trying to take
advantage of situation.
And tear gas, out in the open - with apparently a breeze
blowing, is not fatal. It's a deterrent, and it worked.
16
@J B
The caravan did not walk thousands of miles. Any photos of people walking were staged for the cameras. You can watch any video on youtube from journalists embedded with the caravan and see the migrants riding in trucks, on buses and even cabs. The photo of the overweight woman and children in diapers but no pants/shorts (the children look too old for diapers btw) is clearly staged.
8
@J B - I do not think many of these migrants walked extreme distances on their journey to the border. It appeared to be a case of States moving them on through with buses. Can you imagine the mess this amount of people on foot will leave behind as they pass through? No, they are likely being hastened on their journey to the U.S. border by self protecting parties.
4
With all the embedded journalists and photographers covering the story (and to get the photos you show, they have to be in the midst of it), it's hard to call your coverage impartial. Sorry, the immigrant issue cannot be reduced to allowing undocumented illegals to remain in the United States.
11
The Lefties said it was ridiculous to call the caravan an "invasion," the least because it would be months before it arrived.
Well now it's here. Sure, there are a few poor kids being pulled along by irresponsible parents or maybe "grabbers" to be used as human shields. But what I see are mostly young men charging the border, throwing rocks at our Border Patrol that Libs want to abolish.
It's great to have empathy for third world citizens, but there a few billion of those and we can't take care of them all. How about a little sympathy for our own citizens that have been left behind?
There are 1.2 MILLION illegals in NYC, out of a population of 8M, each of whom has a manual labor job. And lefties wonder why a lower skill American working as a chef or waiter or construction worker in NYC can't get a living wage.
17
Yeah but Republicans vote down any increase to the minimum wage.
3
Some of these photos are similar to those taken at the Gazan/Israel border. Gazans are also desperate, and what they share with many in central America is living under totally corrupt, selfish governments that allow crime and/or senseless poverty to thrive, as long as those in charge are immune from it. In Gaza it is poverty that propels people to riot, though they would all be shot if they rioted at Hamas. Instead they riot at Israel. In Central America the police and many officials are in cahoots with the gangs. Regardless, life becomes hell in all these countries.
But, America cannot take in millions, certainly not at once. Screening takes time, and without it we are vulnerable to festering pockets of poverty and/or violence within our own borders.
Without international interference, those 3 or 4 countries in central America will not change. The same is true for the Hamas run Gaza, a terrorist group in charge of ruining civilian lives.
Maybe Congress can come up with some recommendations to present at the U.N. In total, we are talking about the lives of mega millions, without factoring in Syria, parts of Africa, or the several million Rohingya. No one group is necessarily more worthy of legal immigration, and America isn't the only answer.
9
The scientific aspect of illegal immigration is of immense importance yet it is rarely discussed. First, the CDC lists Dengue, Chikungunya, Zika Viruses, hepatitis B, HIV, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, and MDR tuberculosis in the CDC's Central American Refugee Health Profile. Second, the good folks at Customs and Border Protection look for pests "that could seriously threaten U.S. agriculture, our natural resources and our economy" and protect us from agro-terrorism. Think of that the next time the Border Patrol lobs a few tear gas canisters at a mob of rock throwers who are trying to storm the border.
14
Add in the current outbreak of AFM (acute flaccid myelitis) that is being described as a "mystery illness". In 2014 and 2016 it was found to be caused by a strain of enterovirus #68, brought in by caravans of Guatemalans and El Salvadorans and transmitted by children to preschool and elementary school students. This is why the outbreaks start in September. There are currently 252 cases of permanent paralysis in American children as of yesterday from this outbreak.
4
@AnnieTNews Release: October 5, 2018
The Minnesota Department of Health (MDH) is investigating six cases of a rare condition called acute flaccid myelitis (AFM) that occurred since mid-September in Minnesota children.
You would think that Mexico, which saw its own borders overtaken by America-to the tune of 1/2 of Mexico-would have diplomacy intact since America should be grateful it got away with murder. Naw--not my job to be humanitarian to a group too stupid to be greedy.
We are so arrogant. So much of the poverty and violence in CA and Mexico, we had a hand it. Our ridiculous drug laws, our corn subsidies, never mind our support of dictators (any dictator, please, as long as he isn't a...shudder...communist) have warped and damaged the economies and societies of these countries. And now we want nothing to do with the results.
67
Nobody wants to hear how US policies caused the problem.
13
@Jim, The mere fact that citizens of the US call themselves Americans is a sign of that arrogance. If Make America Great Again included Central America and the other two North American countries (Canada and Mexico), caravans of immigrants would not be an issue. According to the US Refugee Admissions program office census since 2012 (the last 6 years) the number of asylum grants goes as follows: 180,245 (40%) from South Asia; 128,852 (30%) from Africa; 85,515(20%) from East Asia; 17,805 (4%) Europe and 16,868 (4%) from Latin America. In short, Latin America has the least refugees accepted than any other part of the world. Less than Europe... yes, let that sink in for a bit. Draw any conclusion you want from that. What a swell big brother Latin America has in the US.
4
@M Veliz--Gee. Should we call ourselves "United Staters"? But then, that would be "arrogant" because Mexico is the United States of Mexico. We call ourselves Americans because our full name is United States of America.
Mexico in particular is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, #15 in GDP, and well able to provide for its own citizens and many of its poorer neighbors. Maybe if it, and other Latin countries, weren't so corrupt, they'd actually worry about their own citizens. But it's hardly up to the US to take in more of them. We already have 200,000 Salvadorans on TPS, for example, since 2001, who send billions of dollars back there each year. Remittances are 17% of El Salvador's economy, yet the country is supposedly worse off than ever? Face it--the problems of Latin America aren't because of a lack of money but because of corruption.
10
There are 33 million people in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador. Poverty and violence is universal: any migrant's claim their life is in danger is equally probable. So the issue is what level of millions of persons from this area can migrate into Mexico and then on migrate into North America. How many million per year?
At 10,000 in a month, (already a strain for Mexico to deal with) the numbers are within a compassion envelope. At several million, do you start to put a finite number on compassion? Europe idealistically refused to discuss a migrant number and formulate a plan. Now it has quotas, is scrambling with an integration plan, and has a more right wing voting populace as the unintended consequences of compassionate intentions.
19
@Chris Rutledge They can also migrate south, to Chile, Colombia, Argentina, Brazil. There are many ways to combat this illegal migration which is certainly not welcomed by Mexican citizens. One of the easiest is just presenting a realistic idea of the US and their poor chances there, of Mexico and their poor chances here in a growing society in which education is the key. People in these countries which are smaller collectively than CA or TX simply need to address - with their leadership - their situation. Birth control. Education. Gang eradication. Housing and jobs. A collective advisory effort from the other countries in the hemisphere would help.
2
What do liberals think happens with the millions who dutifully apply for entry at our consulates abroad? They wait patiently for years. They do not fake visas or go to Mexico and try to enter the country illegally.
Many of these millions are sitting in refugee camps around the world. Why should they get less priority than the people storming the border with Mexico?
Use the army to stop anyone trying to invade the US; take the immigration agents and use them to speed up processing times for those who have applied lawfully. Otherwise, we just give incentives to foreigners to break our laws.
28
@RAD61, only a military can "invade". So unless you are under the benighted impression that foreign militaries are massing on our border getting ready to shoot their way in and take territory and sack cities, knock off the inflammatory vocabulary if you want anyone to take your ideas seriously.
1
@ondelette. From Merriam Webster dictionary:
Definition of invade
transitive verb
1 : to enter for conquest or plunder
2 : to encroach upon : INFRINGE
3a : to spread over or into as if invading : PERMEATE
doubts invade his mind
b : to affect injuriously and progressively
gangrene invades healthy tissue
A rose is a rose and an invasion is an invasion. It is Mexico’s problem since they declined to inhibit the migration. The migrants were and are unlawfully in Mexico. Prevent them from entering the US by “what ever means necesssary” the democratic party slogan. Unless, of course, Shatz wants them in Hawaii, then transfer them by boat and make them Shatz’s problem.
20
@Jay, Mexico thought we'd readily accept them all, no questions asked, like we do for their millions of poor who are funneled north into our country. They don't like a taste of their own medicine, that's for sure. And what ONLY 5,000 people? ha. Keep letting them in through your southern border Mexico and watch them pile up.
8
My heart goes out to these beautiful young families with their adorable children. I admire their courage, hope and resilience. I hope that they are welcomed into our borders, given due process and offered asylum. Personally, I would rather live in a poor neighborhood with young and struggling Central American families than in the vulgar, ostentatious and vaguely fascistic gilded trappings of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Largo..
6
@Sunspot If you want to move to central America contact the appropriate embassy and do some research so you'll know what to expect at the border. They probably like to maintain their borders too.
11
@Sunspot-- I suspect that moving to Honduras is, indeed, an option for you.
11
@Sunspot
We have neighborhoods like this now in the US. Hard working immigrant parents who don't speak English live in these neighborhoods. Their children's role models are the superficial, materialistic "celebrities" like the Khardasians. When they become teenagers they are pressed into gangs because they live in impoverished areas with no meaningful opportunities and don't have parents who are able to help them navigate our culture and impart to them the importance of education. So do you currently live in one of these neighborhoods?
15
Let's not forget the Times reporting from this weekend that attested to Mexican border guards demanding and accepting bribes to facilitate who and who would not get through to U.S. Customs officers. Mexico is a corrupt nation. Although one could say that a) all nations have some degree of corruption and b) Mexico has made some strides in past decades, we are still dealing with a country rife with organized crime, and lacking an ability to do basic tasks like enforce its own borders. As such, I support the actions of our own Border Patrol. This is a crisis and we need to take strong measures until Mexico takes responsibility for its complicity in this problem.
24
@Bryan, Those from south of the border bring this corruption with them here too. They are NOT all saints.
6
There needs to be coalition of nations dedicated to solving the causes of mass immigration from Central America. No one is leaving his or her family to cross Mexico and enter the US just to buy a bigger television. The problems are not insoluble if there is the will to address the causes. It is easy to send troops to the border and talk tough, but as we can see, it is not a solution.
6
@Freddy, there is such a coalition, it's called the United Nations, and includes the IOM (International Organization on Migration), the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees), with collaboration from the FAO, UNICEF, WHO, OCHA, and a host of other UN offices and organizations.
What they have been saying about this migration has been very different, if only because it is impartial and neutral, than the sharply divided opinion-laced information you get here in the United States. They have said this is a "mixed stream", by which they mean that some of the migrants are asylum seekers and some are seeking labor. They're not viewing this from an office in Geneva or New York, they have been there doing work since the first caravan formed, at the request of the Mexican government.
Buried deep in this article you can distill out that the Mexican government does not see this as only an American problem, nor do they believe that the stream is all asylum seekers or all deserve asylum entry into the United States either.
So while perhaps no one joined the stream for a bigger TV, not everyone in the stream is fleeing persecution, either. And Mexico is making noises about teaming up to solve the problem. They are not a poor nation, they are an inequitably distributed nation.
Most of the better off countries in the world have waited far too long to address migration. It's not a simple problem and its getting worse. Maybe events like this will spur some action.
2
Many other countries are dealing with huge numbers of refugees and so I think this is our problem. We need to face up to the challenges honestly and with compassion.
Despite the simplistic dismissive attitude of Trump, just scare the refugees away, the future promises very big migrations, in the millions. Trump’s stupid approach leads to mass killings of people to keep them out. It will be atrocious and it won’t work.
I find it incredible that, while reading these comments, the hard liners appear to be from Northern East Coast, New England or the South, having no experience actually living near the border of anything except their own neighboring states. It is quite different than you imagine here in San Diego, right here at Ground Zero of this crisis.
I would remind these commenters to look into their own lineage, and remember that their families probably came here from someplace else. And, I would also say, that every wave of immigrants from the moment our country was founded has been a source of antagonism for the greater populace during that time, whether it was The Chinese, the Irish, the Italians, Germans or whomever. It is ridiculous to think this is different. These people just aren’t coming by boat, but by foot. Is that what’s scary? Their determination? To want a better life than at home?
Congress needs to get its act together and pass some real laws, quickly, so this doesn’t devolve into something really ugly. Process them, get them to work, we have fields, we have forests to be raked, haha.
Our nation is the one with the open hands, and hearts, right?
54
@Suzanne, Our nation needs to find ways to establish Fair Trade agreements with Central American nations that prevent the gangs and corrupt public officials from skimming from the farmers and laborers. What is needed is economic stability in Central America. That would solve the emigration issue.
32
@Suzanne Do you advocate open borders and no limits on immigration? Or do you believe in a sovereign border and authority for the US to decide how many immigrants and what qualifications they should have? It is easy to criticize government action. But you have not proposed what alternative you suggest. I can only assume you advocate for open borders.
44
Economic stability relies on stable government, something that American corporations have worked against for over a century
15
The iconic picture of barefooted children running in tow with their mother across the sand to apparently flee danger could just have well looked just as frightening had it been taken at a sunny beach with a jellyfish on it. I think we have a way to go before Trump is equal to Assad's Syrian lethal gas attacks and barrel bombs. But continue to hope and pretend, as it's only Tuesday and still 28 days til Christmas.
11
Once again, not a word about the responses from these Central American governments. Where are they, and why no comments, reactions from them? No calls to the UN for help with drug trafficking? No prospective jobs programs, changes in laws.....something?? I want to see some real, international solutions to these increasing refugee crises-not political buck-passing.
As heartbreaking as it is to watch, I wish these refugees would realize they are being used- and turn around and start marching back to confront their own governments- and demand change. And ask all those in sympathy with them, to join. I’m guessing those governments would not be quite so....silent, with thousands sitting in their own capitol, with international media recording....responses.
As for the Mexican government, maybe they should work on finding the killers of their investigative journalists - they have enough on their own plates without having to deal with their southern neighbors’ failings. Enacting that soda tax might give them a revenue source for reforms.
34
@Jo Williams, you're asking logical questions which have no place in a political tug of war. Pulling with all our might to muddy Trump is what this game is now only all about. The Left could care less about these immigrants as they have proven for years with their inaction on realistic and workable immigration reform, only now solely because they become a useful political football for them to demonize Trump and act as a fig leaf for their own inadequacy.
11
Some of us are trying to point out that US interference in Latin America America has caused economic turmoil and violence.
1
The responsibility for these people rests first upon the Honduran government and second upon the Mexican government. Mexico did not act like an ally when they assisted a mob of people who intended to break our immigration policy. Now Mexico must bear the consequences. I will probably donate to organizations that help feed these people, but I do not feel that the United States has an obligation to take them.
Our obligation is to maintain our usual immigration policies predictably and fairly.that
37
Then maybe the US should stop ousting democratically elected presidents just because they are socialist and want to raise the minimum wage (bad for US corporations in Latin America).
1
Watch upcoming events closely. Last Sunday's San Ysidro border closing has Mexico's complete attention. It very likely is going to occur again. The Baja is a wealthier part of the nation, and somewhat isolated from the rest of the country. A different conversation is beginning in the Tijuana region. Add to this the Baja's reliance on water allocation from the Colorado River, Mexico has some very serious political issues.
19
I believe Mexico is a 'safe' country under international law and probably has accepted many claims of asylum from Central Americans. If the Central Americans are in Mexico, a country where they have escaped persecution, why do they qualify for asylum in the US?
This is a bigger version of the the migrant camp in Calais where economic migrants trying to get into the UK sat and lived for years until France moved them away from the border and presumably adjudicated asylum claims.
32
@Molly O'Neal, They are asylum shoppers all. Just like the ones in Europe who did not want to stay in Greece or Italy. Only the UK or Sweden would do. Beggars can't be choosy. Mexico is more suitable for their cultural and lingual purposes.
14
@Molly O'Neal - Gotta wonder, if these Central American countries encouraged these people with false hopes, so THEY don't have to support the poor.
"they're some other countries problems now, ha ha "
8
@J B--Honduras gets 10% of its economy from remittances (its citizens get TPS in the US and have had it since 1999). El Salvador gets 17% of its economy (200,000 on TPS since 2001). These figures have risen along with illegal immigration. Now, you really think these countries WANT these people to stay home?
2
The root cause of the problem is that congress has failed to pass laws that will allow increased legal immigration to meet the US need's particularly due to the falling birth rate and very low unemployment. There are jus 150k visa's reserved for legal skill based immigration that includes family members. Compare that with 385,000 Asylum claims just last year and over 1.5 million in backlog. The waiting period for a legal skilled immigration worker from China or India is a minimum of 10 years. Family sponsorship wait times is 20-30 years. No wonder people storm the border or fly in and disappear. On the other hand, I saw a local restaurant closed to due to a chef and worker shortage. Bottom line, inaction by congress is the problem. I hope Ms. Nancy Pelosi will start working across the aisle and show that bipartisanship can work in the US, not just Europe.
4
The problem is not the need for increased immigration. The problem is we need to enforce our laws, including wide spread visa abuse.
17
@Ben When unemployment was high you never heard anyone who was pro-illegal immigration admit that the US needed to slow down the flow of illegal immigrants.
It's always "We need more immigrants" , good times or bad. It makes one realize that the economy isn't what's really at issue.
5
@MyjobisinIndianow No, we do need increased immigration (apart from refugees), and we also need to accept many more refugees. The US is not doing its share - they were not admitting enough refugees under Obama and it's even worse now.
I certainly don't believe in totally open borders but totally closed borders are also a HUGE mistake.
1
Here's an approach.
Look at immigration laws of like-countries and model our approach based on that. This bickering where folks just want to oppose Trump is not helping the nation.
Look at how Canada, UK, Australia, France, etc. process asylum cases and let's benchmark.
27
The 2018 statistic of homeless in the U.S.A as i read is 550,000 The shelter less number (living on the street ) is 193,000 . Is more better? I think not.
39
Americans don’t care about their own poor either. Cuts in housing, food stamps, health care, and education—all cheered on by our leaders.
1
Tear gas and indefinitely detain anyone who employs or rents to illegal immigrants.
It's the demand by exploitative employers and other who profit from these people, the great majority of whom are trying to break the law in order to live in a society of laws where they will be safer and have more opportunities than they ever can in their country of origin.
If we really want to stop them from coming instead of just using them to foment fear, racism and partisanship, we have to take away the thing they are coming for. And the exploiters who use them will back off fast if they see the same tactics used on the migrants used against them.
14
@Shar--Let's not forget that illegal workers were employed at Trump properties, and still would be if the Trump Organization thought they could get away with it. Don't look for any meaningful immigration reform to include prosecuting employers. Easier to tear gas the poor.
16
@Ms. Pea Absolutely right. Trump applied for more permits for foreign workers every year, claiming he couldn't find qualified employees in Florida when he hadn't even tried. If he wants to use tear gas and detention against law breakers, he needs to stand up against a wall with his rich, exploitative friends and expect the same treatment he's so happy to order someone else to dish out. Cowardly, rapacious and hypocritical.
1
Wow - this Carivan is a Christmas gift to the Trump Administration.
With so many compassionate voices out there pleading to come up with reform and a plan to deal with the 10 Million undocumented people already here, now we have this. What we are seeing at the border can be spun by the left or right, but the videos of what appear to be flag waving rioters simply do not look good.
If the left is truly interested in coming up with a compromise to help our immigrant neighbors who live and work beside us, they need to take a stand against what is going on at the border and assure hard working Americans that they indeed have a plan.
23
We have more than 5,000 troops dithering on the border but can't process more than 100 asylum applications a day. Maybe sending 25 lawyers instead of 5,000 troops would have been more efficient...and humane.
23
We are a sovereign nation and certainly have the right to decide how many applications to process a day.
52
@Dave That's true. We can also decide whether it makes more sense to spend $200 mil on an unnecessary troop deployment or a fraction of that addressing the issue.
17
@Jack
How about sending the lawyers to expedite the applications of those poor people who have duly applied at our consulates around the world? Many of them wait years or decades, often in refugee camps, for their turn.
Why are you biased against asylum applicants from other parts of the world?
Troops at the border is exactly the right policy.
13
President Trump has not “vowed to keep the migrants on Mexican soil” as the article asserts. The assert is a blatant attempt at spinning the news. Trump has vowed to prevent the migrants from entering the United States illegally. The migrants are on Mexican soil, not U.S. soil. This makes them Mexico’s problem, not the United States problem. Mexican leaders should deal with the problem.
The BBC is reporting that, “Mexico will deport almost 500 migrants who attempted to storm the U.S. border, according to its interior ministry.” Mexico should offer the migrants who remain a second chance to apply for asylum in Mexico, and deport them to their home countries if they refuse.
55
I don't really see why this would be a dilemma for López Obrador. Entry into the U.S. is not within the jurisdiction of Mexico nor does the U.S. have authority over entry into Mexico. Each country does, however, have procedures for exit. So Mexico is responsible for exit procedures and maintaining order on its soil; and the U.S. on its soil.
None of this is directly related to policies pertaining to poverty. Mexico can certainly institute procedures to ensure that migrants trying to enter the U.S. are treated well when on Mexican soil. Mexico can also make statements pertaining to the root causes of the problems in Central America, some of which have historical connections to U.S. policy in the past. But this does not impact Mexican procedures at the U.S. border.
25
We need Mexico as an ally.
While we need a physical border barrier across at least half of the U.S./Mexico border, we also need stronger controls on Mexico’s southern border.
We need a strong U.S. border patrol, but we also a strong Mexican border patrol.
We need a new legal framework to end the asylum scam. The first step is a Safe Third Country agreement, or something similar, with Mexico.
We can help Mexico, and ourselves, by making it economically vibrant. The new USMCA is a start. More importantly, tariffs on Chinese goods can shift some manufacturing to Mexico as a relatively low cost production site.
We need to entice and, if necessary, coerce Mexico into becoming our front line defense against the chaos of Central America.
28
@John Maybe Mexico should take the initiative. Losing US good will would be a heavy blow to the Mexican economy and its people. The NYT should start to take a look at the recent decreasing value of the Mexican peso to the US dollar. Under the present situation it could continue.
9
@R
You are correct.
Mexico must also play a constructive role, which they've not always done.
8
@John--Mexico is already one of the richest countries in the world, #15 in GDP. It's one of our top five trading partners along with Japan, Germany, Canada, and China, and refers favored status with NAFTA, or has. It's also one of the most CORRUPT countries in the world, 135 out of 180, which makes it hard to do business there. Savvy Walmart ran afoul of our Foreign Corrupt Practices Act by paying bribes to Mexican officials to help it do business there. Until it deals with corruption, well, not much we can do. By the way, Mexico now gets $28 billion in remittances from the US, its largest source of revenue, even more now than oil money. Not very healthy for it to be so dependent on us.
1
Trump is doing what all presidents must do— protect the integrity of the US border and community.
It is the Mexican government’s fault for letting the migrants cross their southern border. This is Mexico’s problem and shouldn’t be ours
90
"Our Dream: To build solidarity bridges among peoples and turndown border walls imposed by greed." Pueblo Sin Fronteras website (Town without Borders) Caravan organizer.
". . . many Mexicans are growing increasingly frustrated with the migrants’ presence, worried that they will take away jobs, resources and government attention from Mexican citizens." NYT reporting.
Should the migrants pass en masse into the United States their support will not primarily be shouldered by our federal and state governments. As the Tijuana citizens know, it is the counties, towns and cities which will bear most of the cost.
Are we willing at local levels to accept the financial and social costs? I doubt it.
29
"many Mexicans are growing increasingly frustrated with the migrants’ presence, worried that they will take away jobs, resources and government attention from Mexican citizens"
Apparently another set of citizens who haven't gotten the message from economists that migrants are good and lift all boats.
42
Mexico had plenty of warning, they let them in and should now deal with the consequences.
53
@TED338, They thought the US would handily just take in all of the caravan migrants, as we used to do.
5
To be quite clear. I am politically left of center, supported Angela Merkel's refugee decision in 2015 and have volunteered in several integration projects for Syrian refugees. On this one, however, I am with the U.S. boarder patrol. No sovereign state can condone an open attempt by people to force their way into a country without any resepect for due process.
145
@Chris
How is this different from the influx of refugees to Europe in 2015? Maybe this has more to do with the fact that the US is your country and Germany isn't.
2
Let's hope that Mexico, via Lo'pez Obrador, will react to Trump's un-American cruelty with sober but determined dignity. And, while keeping a delicate relationship alive, leave no doubts that, without being the enemy of the rich (abusing their station right now), he shall remain a champion for the poor.
9
If you’re so concerned about these people, take them into your home and wash, feed, clothe, and house them until they are legally processed.
39
@manfred Marcus
The migrants are on Mexican soil, not U.S. soil. The BBC is reporting that, “Mexico will deport almost 500 migrants who attempted to storm the U.S. border, according to its interior ministry.” Mexico should offer the migrants who remain a second chance to apply for asylum in Mexico, and deport them to their home countries if they refuse.
12
It seems that lots of people are punched drunk about this crush of humanity story, not unlike the situation in Central and Western Europe about Syrian refugees. Our sympathy for their plight has to be balanced by a call of cooperation and orderliness among all concerned. No nation ought to be swarmed by huge numbers of foreigners. On the other hand such refugees deserve some compassion. While we tackle the current conundrum with compassion we need also to launch an urgent hemispheric conference to tackle the root causes - poverty, underdevelopment, lack of jobs and opportunities. Severe unequal development, and wars, will always propel people to move to safer and richer . The incoming Mexican government has proposals for keeping "the caravan" in Central America and southern Mexico, with jobs. It deserves serious support.
27
""Mr. López Obrador laid out a plan to tackle migration at its roots — through development in Mexico’s southern region and at the border with the United States — as well as in Central America.
Mexico was prepared to dedicate money to the effort, Mr. López Obrador wrote, and if the United States partnered with Mexico and Central American nations, “we could gather a considerable quantity of resources to develop the region.”"
Instead of solving the problem, Trump was willing to spend $200 million keeping our troops at the border eating MREs instead of spending Thanksgiving with their families, then billions on a border wall (which would not work: ladders, tunnels, overstayed visas after plane flights......).
Republicans demonstrated that they do not want to address this problem when Boehner refused to let an immigration bill, that would have been passed and signed by Obama, be voted on (he could have voted against it, but he did not even allow a vote, because he knew it would have passed).
Republicans prefer to keep our dysfunctional immigration system so that they can distract people from their lobbyist-fueled agenda by making them hate desperate Central American refugees who are fleeing gang violence (resulting from NRA-enabled gun running south and drug use up here) and are seeking a chance to work hard have a better life.
55
@Lynn
Well spoken. This is an issue that can be solved by rational people in leadership roles. The tragedy of our time is that we have politicians instead of leaders.
21
@TDurk: I couldn't agree more. the GOP, led of course by the feckless president, wants to keep this mess alive in order to keep their base and look "tough" to the world. I agree that Boehner really abdicated his role of persuading his raucous caucus to get real on immigration. The could have, and should have, fixed this mess in 2013-14. instead, Trump was able to demagogue the issue to victory. None of this cynical crew wants an equitable solution based on realism and compromise, particularly the president who loves having a wedge issue to maintain a grip on his sinking popularity.
17
@ChristineMcM-- I disagree with you. The governments responsible for this mess are the Honduran government and the Mexican government. We announced our intentions in advance and behaving exactly as promised. We are processing their asylum requests in our normal manner.
25
There is no good solution to the migrant crisis. The only way to deal with the problem is at its source, by combating crime and poverty in Central America and eliminate pressures for migration. In the short term the best we can do is to set up temporary migrant camps, as European countries have done. Our main efforts should be on fixing Central America’s problems, though.
51
@Grover--Responding to Central America's problems is beyond the capabilities of the Trump Administration. The president's tunnel vision doesn't allow him to see beyond the end of his nose. He would rather use tear gas on women with babies. Any kind of thoughtful and meaningful study of the real issues involved in this migrant crisis are an impossible reach for an administration concerned only with infighting and loyalty tests.
14
@Grover You think it is the US's job to fix Central America's problems?! So, should we just take over their government, placing US politicians or military, or business leaders in place? Should we then implement new laws and a constitution too? Replace judges and set up new court systems? Or were you just thinking we'd give them a few billion and ask the current regime to spend it on the people vs. their mansions and offshore accounts.
1
@Ms. Pea--Corruption underlies the problems in these countries, and illegal immigration itself is part and parcel of corruption at the highest levels. So said Pres. Eisenhower, quoting the NY Times, in the 1950s. Mexico's one of the most corrupt countries in the world, 135 out of 180, according to Transparency International. Hopefully, its citizens and its new president are trying to deal with that, as should these migrants IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.
1
Mexico has zero credibility on this issue -- they had ample opportunities to stop the caravan at their own southern border. Of course their assumption was that the migrants wouldn't want to -- or have to -- stay in Mexico. Now that they can't pass them off to the US they cry foul?
The Democrats need to end the insanity of their defacto "Open Borders" policy. It's bad optics alone to most Americans and a huge wedge issue they leave open to Republicans.
Worse yet is that it is totally intellectually dishonest. The US can't take care of its own poor and jobless, what exactly makes the Democrats think that they can absorb millions more impoverished and poorly educated migrants?
Being poor and having a bad government is a reason to emigrate to the US, but it's not a justification for bypassing the entire immigration system in the US.
142
We can take care of our own. We choose not to.
2
@Zejee--Mexico is a wealthy country, #15 in GDP. It can take care of its own, and probably many of these migrants, but it's chosen not to, which is why we have six million Mexicans living here illegally.
2
Congress has failed to pass immigration reform and border security. The situation we see at the border is entirely upon them.
32
@Jim T. Wrong. The situation we see at the border is entirely upon the governments of Honduras and Mexico.
4
Jim T,
I agree with your assessment that Congress needs to create real immigration reform however, the President and his administration need to be accountable as well and present a viable immigration plan that does not separate children from their parents which only did more harm than good.
However I am not certain this administration can formulate a well thought out and constitutional plan.
@Jim T. Until the welcome mat for illegal immigrants is pulled from inside the country, nothing will change. The problem is, no one wants to let go of the profits they create in small businesses, agriculture, meat packing, service industries and all the rest. Make eVerify mandatory, punish for hiring illegal aliens, and no benefits of any kind without terms. It won't happen of course, too many people like things the way they are.
1
Did U.S. Law Enforcement fire tear gas into another country?
If so what are the legalities of that?
14
@K. O'Brien What are the legalities of storming the border of a sovereign country?
58
@MM What are the legalities of overthrowing dozens of democratically elected governments?
6
Not necessarily. The fence is not necessarily on the exact border. Both sides of the fence are most likely US.
6
Perhaps if Mexico had stopped this caravan of economic migrants at its southern border, it wouldn't be facing this situation at its northern border. Mexico ONLY let these people into Mexico because it assumed they would stroll into the United States (and the U.S. taxpayers would welcome them with open arms). But now that they might have to stay in Mexico, suddenly Mexico is whistling a different tune.
I didn't vote for Trump and don't like his style. But these people must be stopped. Our asylum laws are ridiculous. People, under coaching from open borders advocates, shouldn't be allowed to wait for the adjudication of their bogus claims in the United States. We need to do what Canada does: not allow asylum claims by people who passed first through another country without claiming asylum there.
The open borders advocates want to let these people in the United States and, after their asylum claims are exposed as baseless, these same advocates will claim it is "cruel" to make the fake asylum seekers leave after having lived so long in the United States.
Tear gas them. Close the entire border. Do whatever is necessary. But keep these people out. Our national sovereignty demands it.
165
@Peter
"Perhaps if Mexico had stopped this caravan of economic migrants at its southern border, it wouldn't be facing this situation at its northern border."
Not just "perhaps", but certainly.
58
@Peter We definitely need to adopt the Canadian rules of asylum. It only makes sense. What about those who are trying to come here legally. They should have priority in the courts, not people trying to cross our borders after being in another country and claim asylum.
41
@Peter--Why must these people be stopped? Why does our "national sovereignty" demand it? Why are these few migrants any more dangerous or unwelcome than the millions who have come here before them? How do you know their claims of asylum are "baseless"?
17
There is an organization called OAS- they have an impressive website and a building in Washington.Why is this organization not involved in trying to mitigate the migration problem?This serious problem which has no easy answers needs some cooperation among the countries involved.Is there no room for diplomacy?Trump does nothing to abate the chaos because his only solution is a big, expensive wall.Migration in the Americas should not be a huge humanitarian crisis.
15
The immigrants are, of course, the problem. They are poor, abused, unwanted and seeking shelter in our nation where most of them would qualify for asylum under our current laws. Mr. Trump and his Republican Congress refuse to enact legislation that would easily solve this problem, get these refugees into out asylum system, because it serves their political purpose. They want an evil enemy at the border so that Mr. Trump can prove he needs his ridiculous border wall. Congress needs to act now. Trump needs to shut his face and get enacted a immigration law that allows for asylum and an adequate, controlled guest worker program. Do your job, Mr. Trump!
16
@Patrick Stevens Yeah, it is always blame Trump. This problem started long before he arrived in office.
What about Democrats who want to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world nation by flooding it with poverty...all for votes?
76
@Patrick Stevens
"Most" would qualify for asylum because...? Would most of the world qualify for asylum? If so, do you (and your neighbors) want us to send them to Montana (a lot of open space there, I believe.)
50
@Patrick Stevens, you are mistaken in your belief that most of these so-called asylum seekers would qualify for asylum in the US. The vast majority of them want to come here for a higher standard of living, not because they are persecuted in their home countries. That’s not enough; if it were, billions of people would qualify for asylum in the US.
45
If Mr. Lopez is truly about providing for the poor why doesn’t he take the migrants in? Get them settled in Mexico and allow them to live off his social services?
I’m the end, they’re a drain no matter what.
64
@Kenn Winch
In my experience immigrants are hard working and want to make a better life for their families. I have seen drains and most are those that feel entitled and look down upon others.
16
@Kenn Winch Many have been offered asylum by Mexico but have refused. They want to come to the US. These are not migrants - they are illegal immigrants. If they were true migrants they'd welcome the Mexican government's offer.
65
@kah--California has the most illegal aliens of any state, and the most welfare recipients, 1/3 of all of them. 30% of welfare recipients live in households headed by illegal aliens. You can "work hard" and even work several jobs, but STILL be poor. Working poor. That's the kind of poor that lasts generations, and is due to a lack of basic education and skills, not a run of bad luck. California K-12 schools aren't doing all that well either at preparing kids. They've sunk from the best schools in the country to the bottom 1/3.
3
We can count on the US President to act cruelly and shamefully. Hopefully, the Mexican President will stand up and do the right thing. That will be in the best interests of the migrants and both countries.
9
@Mark Miller The far left has lost its collective mind. Be prepared to lose lots of elections over this issue. Most Americans, even most Democrats, are not for flooding the country with poverty.
127
@MM
"flooding the country with poverty" is not what immigrants do. They work hard, create jobs, and build communities.
Below are some facts, more accurate than Fox propaganda
"IMMIGRATION AND
NEW YORK CITY:
The Contributions of ForeignBorn
Americans to New York’s
Renaissance, 1975–2013"
https://www.as-coa.org/sites/default/files/NYCImmigrationReport2014.pdf
"Large population increases fueled by immigration since 1990 have revitalized [Queens, the Bronx, and Brooklyn] and in the past decade have boosted the number of businesses, their sales and the job count. Unemployment also has been reduced to the lowest rate since the government began tracking it in 1990."
https://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20180806/BLOGS01/180809953/how-brooklyn-queens-and-the-bronx-have-powered-the-boom
14
These migrants and the million of Mexicans are the demographic future of the US. Their birth rate is huge. Central America is corrupt and it is not going to change. The US is somewhat better although that is rapidly changing as we imitate the third world. The US could demand a referendum in these countries and annex them since we know the vast majority would move to the US if they could.. Then at least the taxpayer will benefit from taxes from their oligarchs and the natural resources. Imagine the 5 Freeway extended to Cabo. With US stability and property law the. boom would be spectacular. The only losers would be their oligarchs and cheap US employers. The UAW could organize the Mexican auto plants which could save some US jobs.
“Suddenly, the incoming ministers found themselves watching videos of hundreds of migrants, including small children, rushing toward the border gates and getting tear-gassed by American border agents.” On November 14 the Times reported the caravan was “mostly young men.” Is it that, or a mixed group of women, children and young men? More facts, please?
32
@Beantownah Just look at the photos in the NYT and elsewhere: occasional women and kids, large majority of young men.
9
It is time for Canada to either support Trump's actions or pay a price. Trump should offer members of the caravan a contract, we will transport them to the Canadian border where we will allow then to cross illegally in exchange for a promise never to return to the United States or seek asylum. I want to see how long Canada will allow 10,000 illegal immigrants a week to stream across their border before they start talking about building a wall. Effectively, this is what Mexico is doing. These migrants are breaking dozens of Mexican laws. The mothers who were tear gassed should be arrested for child endangerment and their children put into Mexican protective services. They should all be arrested for being illegally in Mexico. If Mexico's refusal to enforce their own laws economically harms the United States, maybe we need to start economically punishing Mexico. Odd how we have no problem punishing North Korea and Iran even though it causes great hardship for innocent children but we let Mexico get away with this nonsense.
64
@Mike you fault Mexico but then suggest that the U.S. do exactly the same and let Canada suffer instead. If what Mexico is doing is wrong then it would be immoral to copy their approach.
3
Canada’s hasn’t pursued years of intervention in Central And South America the way the United States has, nor is it the tremendous drug market that the United States is. The United States (not Canada) has brought much the problem upon itself. I haven’t heard anything about changing foreign policy, eg non-interference or possibly changes or increases in foreign aid. Nor have there been any steps toward meaningful reduction in illegal drug use and abuse in this country. President Wonderful and the Republicans have had two years of control to do something different and meaningful with immigration and we see the result. As far as I’m concerned this problem is the result of the administration’s failed immigration policy.
9
@Mike "It is time for Canada to either support Trump's actions or pay a price."
Canada has far more restrictions on private gun ownership than America; universal health care; our immigration policies are both fair and designed to benefit the country.
Why should Canada be asked to pay a price for your country's incompetence? No sir, your chaotic immigration has been a mess for decades on account of past Republican and Democratic administrations incompetence. And if 10-20 million illegal immigrants aren't enough incentive for them to act, then what will?
America's broken immigration system is 100% made in America.
18
Migrants from Central America may be fleeing their home countries for better economic opportunities in the US, but that is not a reason for the US to allow mass migration across our borders.
Two legislative actions must be taken to address the problem. Neither involves building Trump's stupid idea of a wall.
First, legislation needs to be passed to encourage the orderly and safe migrational ebb and flow of labor between Mexico and the US. Our agriculture and several other industries depend on this win-win arrangement.
Second, the US should invest in stabilizing the quality of life opportunities of Central Americans through the creation of a 21st century Monroe Doctrine. While American interests no longer are threatened by European powers asserting themselves in the Americas, our interests are threatened by the social upheavals in the Central Americas.
The obvious problem with a revitalized Monroe Doctrine is that, in order to work, it would certainly invoke accusations of colonialism. The reality is that the problem nations of Central America have poor or corrupt governance. They either do not know how to govern or their leaders are just clumsy versions of Trump and Putin.
But we do know that staying on the current course will lead us to where we are heading.
38
@TDurk--Farmers can hire an UNLIMITED number of seasonal ag guest workers on H2-A visas. They prefer to hire illegal aliens who'll work cheaper and for whom they don't have to do program paperwork or follow rules.
1
If our inept Congress can ever bring themselves to pass some meaningful immigration reform law, much of this would have been avoided.
We ha e millions of immigrants in the US who have been patiently waiting to become citizens.
Petition your representatives to act and end the delays for naturalization.
The Administration will do nothing unless Congress acts.
11
@JMS--We have millions of LEGAL immigrants, but money they pay gets diverted to taking care of illegal aliens. DACA is a good example. The fees DACAs pay do NOT cover the full cost of the work permit, that is, they don't cover the waiver of deportation. They were also offered fee waivers. Since immigration benefits, by law, must be covered by fees, the fees paid by legal immigrants were diverted to processing 700,000 DACAs very quickly, before the end of Obama's term in office. The NY Times in 2013 reported that this resulted in a TRIPLING of wait times for family members of citizens to get green cards from five months on average to 15. If you're waiting for your spouse, how happy would you be at that?
Historically, isolation and nationalism breed wars. There will be no resolution until such time we take international responsibility. These issues have no respect for physical borders, and we need to live with the economic and environmental issues we face today.
11
@MMPlease reread my words I do not advocate unrestricted immigration to any country and I respect the character and history of all peoples. I am in favor of a shared responsibility for my fellow man and while I recognize clear limitations, I have no closed borders in pursuit of that goal.
6
@Carey
We do not have shared responsibility for those who are not citizens, certainly not it the expectation is that citizens' tax dollars pay for this responsibility.
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Please name the limitations that pass muster with you. Because all I keep reading is "we don't support open borders" but never anything about limits to accepting everyone for any reason. FYI I'm a lifelong Democrat who doesn't think I'm required to think in lockstep with every liberal idea.
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Well the Dems promised that this would never happen, promised that only a few hundred would show, lies of course, but what do we do? Some people are no doubt fleeing criminal violence in Honduras. But it's also plausible many of these people are economic migrants. Fleeing poverty is not grounds for asylum. I'm beginning to think the point is to overwhelm US border authorities. Claims for asylum are supposed to be determined by immigration judges. They can't just be forced back over the border (although that would be a sensible legal reform.) The backlog is now huge. The expectation is that the government will release the migrants pending a hearing, at which point they can just disappear into the hinterland...yes? What if they don't want to wait. We don't want to repeat when the caravan were halted in a confrontation with the border patrol with tear gas. The caravan is an humanitarian crisis with possible economic & border security implications that we can't begin to contemplate. And lets be clear. It's a crisis because neither political party is handling it well. It will get worse as more people arrive. It's a visual reminder our immigration system is totally broken. This feels like a ticking time bomb. Its just a matter of time before the caravan in Mexico becomes frustrated, rushes the border,& tries to enter illegally. So what do we do? Wait until the surge overcomes the wire entanglements and they run over here. Then what? Snap decisions rarely have good results.
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@Bill Brown hat these people want a better life is understandable. But what are we going to do with thousands of semi-literate young men and women? They must first of all be educated to find work in a modern society, that, even as we speak of this, is itself on the threshold of a new technological revolution that will make these new migrants even less likely to find employment opportunities. Most if not all illegal immigrants pass through many safe countries to come to the U.S. According to international law a person can only claim refugee status in the first safe country they find themselves in. We've somehow arrived at a point where only the migrants have rights, we have no right to regulate our borders, to prepare for a future with fewer low-wage jobs instead of letting in a huge workforce of young people increasing competition for those jobs. Why is the only answer, that they have an unrestricted right to come to the U.S.? The more we take in, the easier we make it, the more will try to get here. It is a impossible equation. Too many people believe they have prescribed right to gatecrash Europe & the U.S.– endlessly, regardless of where they come from, regardless of the laws, & regardless of the reality that we can't accommodate all of them. They're country shopping for the best benefits, the treaties & conventions made decades ago that were never meant to facilitate the transfer of huge swaths of one continent to another. We need responsible immigration reform now.
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@Bill Brown One thing "we" could do is elect a Congress and President who actually want to write an adequate immigration law and not just use immigrants as whipping boys for the next election. Trump and the Republican Congress have had two years to work this out. Where's the law?
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And all to be paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. Or wait, we can borrow the money from China to pay for their education, health care and housing.
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