So how could there be a Democrat fueled massive fraud in Florida if all the political machinery is in Republican hands? The State congress, Senate, the judiciary, everything has been taken over the Republicans due to effective and skillful gerrymandering. The attorney general of Florida is totally enamored with Trump and the governing bodies of the state are unapologetically Republican and Trumpist. So how could the Democrats possibly manage to take over process in a couple of days after the election?
3
I think of those 537 votes often. Without them Gore would have been president, 9/11 would have passed peacefully, and even if those planes had slipped past a more vigilant government, there would have never been any imaginary WMDs in Iraq. So much death and suffering since those 537 votes.
9
According to the GOP our elections are frauds unless their party win; the press is the enemy of the people unless the press storylines are GOP-positive; and the Justice Department / law enforcement / Courts are working to undermine democracy.
REALLY?
The GOP?
The party of law and order?
You just can't make this stuff up.
9
Fear is in the mind of others, so this article that reads Republican minds, could be an attempt to discredit claims of fraud out of this paper’s desire to see a Democrat elected. Claims of possible racist dog whistle can also be an attempt to suppress statements that are not racist but might be about questionable actions of people who are not white. This coming from a paper that has repeatedly published long articles speculating that registration rules, voting locations and voter ID laws are designed to produce “voter suppression," another instance of reading what’s in the mind of others. Claims that Republicans engage in voter suppression is gospel, but claims of ballot irregularities such as finding boxes of ballots in cars, or backrooms, or discarded, or canvassing for more absentee votes during an election should not be brought up. This article aims to discredit such past instances and claims of potential repetition as illegitimate. Were the tactics used to secure Al Franken a win in Minnesota all on the up and up? It certainly didn’t seem that way. The other major NY paper has an editorial today that indicated that Democrats have brought in Marc Elias, an election litigator to the hilt who takes no prisoners, who is advancing the unproven theory of an undervote. So journalistic fairness might call for a less inflammatory title, and a more balance analysis. I think.
My friend, every vote should always be counted.
Dems were furious when the Secretary of State in Florida halted counting in 2000. But, we challenged and accepted the verdict.
Republicans popped champagne.
Now Republicans are screaming about fake ballots! (Really? Are they that insecure?)
Just let all of the votes— provisional and military, be included with the count.
Now count all votes and get rid of the conspiracy stuff that the GOP seems to favor.
1
@Bruce
Wow, conservative fake news against reality. Black is white, global warming is a hoax. Day is night and conservatives do not engage in voter suppression.
2
Scott alleges "rampant fraud". He should know; it stems from him and his henchmen.
2
Comparing the reversals to the total number of elections is misleading at best. The only relevant comparison is the ratio of reversals to recounts, as only recounted elections can possibly be reversed. Restated as a percentage, three reversals in 26 recounts means that 11.5% of those contests were reversed based on the actual results of those specific contests. And the actual results of the current, specific contests is what should be sought, regardless of the outcome.
4
Well its certainly good that a Broward county judge has compelled Ms Snipes to turn over the election records, in accordance with the law. Hopefully there is no evidence of fraud.
2
Trump's claims that the 2016 election was loaded with corruption was true. The Russians elected him.
3
Donna Brazile actually did cheat in giving Hillary Clinton debate questions in advance. Could we please not have to hear about what Donna Brazile thinks about anything anymore?
2
Engaging in widespread voter fraud during the election itself is impractical and runs the danger of getting busted. And it is unnecessary if your candidate would end up winning or losing by a large margin anyway.
Consequently, the way voter fraud works in practice is that each side tries to hang back until the other side's votes are all counted. Then, once you know exactly how many votes your candidate needs to re-take the lead you proceed to "find" these new votes in the form of previously uncounted ballot boxes, etc.
One textbook illustrations of this process was Lyndon Johnson's stealing of his senate seat in 1948, in which LBJ " was on the verge of losing the election and yet six days after polls had closed, 202 additional ballots were discovered in precinct 13 . . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_13_scandal
(See also Robert Caro's Means of Ascent for the detailed story).
Another example was the hilariously crooked 1982 Illinois guberatorial race in which "the U.S. Attorney in Chicago at the time, Daniel Webb, estimated that at least 100,000 fraudulent votes (10 percent of all votes in the city) had been cast. https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/report/where-theres-smoke-theres-fire-100000-stolen-votes-chicago#_ftn3
Unfortunately, there is lots of circumstantial evidence of fraud in Broward county, which has willfully defied all election statutes and court orders to timely count and report its vote totals.
@Wiener Dog
Fraud is when you prove it. But you didn’t.
Ms. Snipes' incompetence in Broward County has done more to discredit the election process in Florida than any Republican posturing could possible accomplish. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
1
The Republicans crave power and the recounts could deny them a Senate seat and a governorship. They are willing to use any means to prevent this outcome. No surprise.
3
The only thing that changes corporate behavior is laws, regulations, and when these are broken or flaunted, jail for corporate criminals. It's long overdue and we are getting fed up with corporate crooks getting away with murder and more.
1689 1776 1789 1848 1917 1949 1989
Sometimes there is only one solution.
Soooo, the secret behind their strategy of challenging the vote is a plot to challenge the vote?
Let's give these hard-working journos a few days off.
2
A strategy of stopping the recount.
It doesn't have to be this way. #BuryTheHatchet _________________
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown,_Delaware#Return_Day ___________________________
http://www.returnday.com/history___________
"Every two years, Georgetown DE hosts Return Day, a half-day-long parade and festival two days after Election Day. It stems from colonial days, when the public would congregate in Georgetown two days after the election to hear the results (because it would take that long to deliver the results to the courthouse by horseback from the state capital in Dover, Delaware). The winners of that year's elections parade in horse-drawn carriages around The Circle. Together with the losers and the chairs of the county's political parties, they ceremonially "bury the hatchet" in a tub of sand. The afternoon of Return Day is a holiday for county and state workers in Sussex County. The day's events are marked by a traditional ox feast, and the beginning of the next round of campaigns.
1
It is a national tragedy, shame, and disgrace (not to mention clear and present danger to the American Body Politic) that the Party of Lincoln has become the party that never met a lie it didn't like. Worse (if possible), the party that freed the slaves has become an international embarrassment with its dog-whistle politics.
6
glad you didn't neglect to get dirty trickster Roger Stone into the story. skitting like a gadfly along the edges of politics for decades, he has had a vast influence on the tactics and moral outlook of the Republican party, along with his former influence partners Charlie Black and Paul "the goniff" Manafort. people in this mold will do just about anything to achieve their ends... which always are power and money.
4
Umm, on that final sentence to this article, Mr Gore actually won by 500+ votes. The Supreme Court should have never interfered in the 2000 election as the people vote their candidates in not just 9 people in black robes.
6
@Colorado Lily
You only see what you want to see.
The final sentence is Bush won by 537 votes, NOT Gore.
The sad part about your comments and other hatful comments to this article, that it is framed against Republicans, and you react accordingly. There is no mention of the Broward County operation, the utter incompetence or corruption, the history of Broward County in election issues. Oh, the Democrats are pure as driven snow, they just want to count all votes by the people. Spare me, this article is a political hit piece, not news.
I can't blame Republicans for wanting to win, or for fighting hard to win, but this tactic of stopping the counting of votes--or the re-counting votes, as in 2000, is getting tiresome.
In the case of Broward County, it is only Ms. Snipes who is an elected official. The remainder of the employees of Elections--73, according to the county's 2018 operating budget--were recruited according to merit-based civil service rules. The chances that Nelson, or Snipes, could get these employees to look the other way while they stole the election, as Scott and Trump allege, are nil.
There have been observers from the State office of elections on site in Broward since election day. The Republican Party has had its observers on site since election day. None of these have reported any violation of the law. Law enforcement has stated that they see no evidence of the law being violated in the Elections department of Broward County.
Count the ballots. It's what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
7
Counting all the votes is NOT a recount.
10
The GOP in Florida and Georgia need to go to Arizona to learn from their colleagues on how to comport themselves during close elections. Seriously, their fangs are showing and it is not an attractive look.
And what a statement about the ability of the man-who-would-be-governor in Georgia who apparently did such a sub-par job of insuring the integrity of the election that he and his colleagues see fit to rip it to shreds. If the Georgia election process is in such disarray, that certainly isn't confidence inspiring as it relates to voting him into an even more powerful position!
4
Both parties use inflammatory rhetoric around voting. Here in the NYT, numerous articles and op-eds blame voter suppression for GOP majorities in red states. So much so that most NYT readers probably believe it actually skews elections, when the objective data is far less conclusive.
In Caifornia or NY, if Dems don't vote it's voter apathy. If they live in the South and don't vote, it must be voter suppression. It would be nice if the party in power made it easier for opposition members to vote, but it's not voter suppression if they make it harder. It's called politics and this is how it's always been played.
@Paul "it's not voter suppression if they make it harder".
I wish I could convince by blue state representatives of that. But they keep resisting the lead of their red state brethren and refuse to play tit for tat. As with gerrymandering, in time, they will be forced to. Apparently, that's the country we want.
If you show up to vote and get turned away because your voter ID card doesn’t have a hyphen, there are two things majorly wrong with that picture and neither of them is voter apathy. Voter suppression is a real thing and it is why we are governed by a minority that won’t move the country in the direction it wants to go.
7
Let no one forget that if the 2000 recount in Florida had gone the other way (regardless of how) and Gore had been declared the winner, there would have been no Iraq war and most likely no ISIS and probably no Syrian war, (maybe even no 9/11). It's hard to know the actual numbers but probably hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent civilians in many places throughout the planet would not have been killed. The consequences of this Florida recount will for as yet unknowable reasons, have an effect on the lives of many who today don't even know where or what Broward County is
7
Michael Moore told an anecdote about interviewing Steve Bannon in producing his recent movie, Fahrenheit 11/9. Moore asked Bannon about the difference between conservatives and liberals. Bannon replied that conservatives go for the head wound, while liberals have pillow fights.
Looking back over the past few decades, it appears Bannon is right. Republicans are clearly determined to do anything -- legal, illegal, unethical, detestable, anything -- to hold on to power. Tough question: Is it time for Democrats to go for the head wound?
13
Falsely yelling “fraud” in an election ballot counting office is the moral equivalent of falsely yelling “fire” in a crowded movie theater.
7
This is but another example of the terrifying fear that runs through the Republican Party that they are losing, losing numbers and losing influence.
6
Once you become a Democrat the laws no longer apply to you. And that's likely why the Democrats ignore the issue of their entry being "illegal" since once they register as Democrats it becomes Moot.
Republicans like Scott; like Trump: are not like the 'Honest Abe'
(Abraham Lincoln) Republican....they are simply autocrats who
are for themselves only.....they represent themselves not the
Republicans of the past...who wanted to cast themselves as
The Grand Old Party....who did represent citizens who wanted
to be very fiscally conscientious....no these Trumpian republicans
represent autocracy....however; there may be a few who hang
on to what the dying out Republicans like John McCain represented
and perhaps ….we are so tired of this Ugly Republican Party that has taken over a once deliberative old GOP Party; but now led by McConnell and autocratic rule by the
the 'dictatorship' of campaign funders SuperPac Citizens United
unrepresentative law..We The People are sick of McConnell..
of the repression of voting rights....so...we need a Good Old Party
to replace this Grandiose Odious Party and maybe we
the people just might get our heads together to get something
done about what really matters....a functioning House and Senate..
7
At least in the year 2000 the outcome of the Presidential election hinged on the results of the Florida recount. But in 2018 Republicans are assured of a majority no matter what the results of the Florida Senate race recount. So all this noise and false claims of fraud is just for morale purposes? Some people need to get a life.
4
I remember when people scoffed at first lady Hillary Clinton's comments about a vast right wing conspiracy. The GOP and its big money donors have been systematically dismantling our democracy through gerrymandering, appointing conservative judges, and suppressing voter rights since Nixon's resignation left a vacuum in leadership. Meanwhile the rest of us have foolishly in believed in fairness and the rule of law. How do you fight back when the other side plays dirty? By insisting that the law prevails, by exposing deceit, and by cultivating decency in our fellow Americans. I hope....
15
@Kathleen "How do you fight back when the other side plays dirty?"
You fight dirty too. There's a good book on that; "It's Time to Fight Dirty", by David Faris.
3
I read about republican operatives and surrogates descending upon Florida and organizing protests. Where are the democrats? As usual, silent. Where are democratic politicians and surrogates? Why aren't they organizing protests? Where are their slogans? They should be shouting and calling out Scott for refusing to count all the votes, whatever the outcome. Their slogan should be simple: Democrats count all the votes, republicans suppress the votes. Why don't the dems ask them what they would do had the roles been reversed? Would they simply walk away? Heck no.
2
I'm seriously thinking of becoming a Democrat.
Been watching Florida and Arizona and Georgia as they trip over boxes and boxes of undiscovered ballots every where they turn. They even find them in the trunks of rental cars at airports disguised as bombs.
There appear to be a lot of legal advantages to being a Democrat. You can ignore the law with impunity since the laws do not apply to Democrats. You can ignore court orders without consequences because apparently the courts have no jurisdiction or authority over Democrats. You can't be fired. The FBI will not investigate you. The prosecutors will not indict you and in the rare instances where you do get arrested by some racist, Nazi Republican someone will raise enough money to pay for your defense and to pay off your mortgage.
Ethics Rules don't apply. The media will always be on your side and demonize any one who disagrees with you. If worse comes to worse Antifa will mob your opponents and critics, beat them up and intimidate them into silence.
You can say anything you like online. You can curse at, threaten to kill, rape and behead anyone you dislike, threaten their children lead mob action to get them fired and if they dare to complain you can get them permanently banned for whatever social media platform they are on.
What's not to like??
Hmmm perhaps that explains why so many people want to immigrate here and become Democrats. Besides it doesn't matter if you entered illegally.
Boxes of ballots in trunk of car at airport--fact check it please. Fake News. Already debunked. Next.
2
Thank goodness for the transparency of the GOP's hypocrisy! Why, I think I can see right through it.
2
As many other commenters did not fail to remind us about
Scott’s prior tenure as CEO of Columbia/HCA about a decade ago, when the hospital company was fined $1.7 billion for Medicare fraud...
for someone whose billions dollar company was fined
a billion+ dollars for committing fraud to then go prancing
around in front of any camera that is recording and announce
in grave and ominous tones that fraud is being committed is,
to say the least, something worthy of having been scripted by Moliere or Sturges (our very own Moliere).
Does he even worry about looking like the holy hypocrite
he actually is playing? Probably not, since people
at this level of sociopathy are so far removed from
normal concerns about looking like idiots that it would
never ever enter their minds.
So we need instead those like Colbert to point out the
obvious in wise and witty ripostes.
What can't be figured out is how he intends to reverse course
and declare himself a certified winner when he's already
claimed to be a victim of fraud.
But this is Florida, after all, so anything dodgy becomes
reality if authorities repeat it enough and we wait
long enough.
18
The Republican Party today is nothing more than a organized crime syndicate that puts power and profit ahead of the nation, its citizens and our precious environment.
22
The democrats have tried to Steal this election with Snipes heading the project for them!
The court reprimands this woman every other week, how does she still have a job!!!!!!
Democrats.......silent.
3
So if their guy is ahead, counting any more ballots is fraud.
If their guy is behind, not counting any more ballots is fraud.
Okay, got it.
12
Absolute and utter lack of integrity.
Not to mention contempt for the intelligence of voters.
7
Scott's attack on, 'Broward County supervisor of elections, Brenda C. Snipes, whom Republicans like Mr. Scott have called out by name for enabling “rampant fraud,” as the governor put it last week.' seems to me a real good basis for a slander suit.
Regardless, who's been responsible over the last 8 years for ensuring the competence of Florida's county election boards and supervisors...that would be Gov. Scott.
7
If one party does not except the results of our elections maybe it's time to consider the legal abolition and banning that party. In 1954 the Communist Party was banned by Congress for being a subversive, anti-democratic Organizstion in thrall to a foreign Goverment, then the Soviet Union.
Is today's Republican Party any less?
3
today's Republican party is vastly larger and more influential, and swings vastly more power, than the namby pamby, tiny, Communist Party ever did in America.
the few Communists were a great tool and rallying cry for conservatives but thy never did anything of substance (including the Rosenbergs), while the Republicans have pretty much ruined America, democracy, and brought war and pestilence upon the land as they steal everything they can get their hands on.
2
Can we the people sue the President for spreading misinformation?
8
The GOP gave up on democracy soon after WW II when they backed the French attempt to reclaim colonial control of Indochina, something FDR who hated colonial and corporate control of people would have scorned. Filipinos considered FDR a saint for ensuring their independence after the war. Eisenhower helped organize coups in Iran and Guatemala as Nixon did in Chile to overthrow democratic governments. Their modern campaign of voter suppression and propaganda about fraudulent elections is simply one more example of their desire to create an oligarchy.
6
This is just Trump/Republicans projecting onto others what they themselves are trying to do. Purge voter rolls, move polling places as far as possible from public transportation in urban areas, woefully inadequate resources for large urban/Democratic precincts, onerous ID requirements, and, of course, a wink and a nod to Russian interference. Rick Scott had eight years to fix this, as did Jeb Bush and Charlie Crist before him, all Republicans. I really think this dress rehearsal for 2020. "The only way I'll say the system isn't rigged is if I win." Donald Trump 2016.
8
In Florida, a "hand" recount means that humans examine only the tiny fraction of ballots that present "overvotes"or "undervotes" for the contest in question (that is, cases where the machine indicated either no vote or more than one vote for the contest). That means that no verification or check is possible for the 99% or so of ballots counted "normally" by computers about the programming of which the public is permitted to know essentially nothing (the code and the memory cards are all corporate property, off-limits to all inspection).
If a rogue or purchased programmer had decided to shift votes by even a simple manipulation like off-setting the "zero counters" on the memory card (e.g., setting Scott's zero counter to +100 and Nelson's to -100 in targeted precincts, so that the first vote for Scott would be recorded as #101 and the first vote for Nelson #-99, so that at the end of counting a net of 200 votes would be shifted but the "right" number of total votes, matching the # of voters, would be recorded), that action would go completely undetected and obviously could account for the margin in any reasonably close contest.
Why we continue to accept such a concealed and fraud-inviting process in the current no-holds-barred, win-by-whatever-means environment is the real mystery here. It is imperative that we introduce ballots measures to take vote counting out of the partisan pitch-dark of cyberspace, and move to restore public, observable counting to our elections.
7
Seems like Democratic lawyers are trying to destroy the country now even challenging Whitaker in court. The Republicans should take notice, not cooperate with the Democrats, and look for correct federal judges to rule in their favor.
@Larry
How is challenging Whitaker "trying to destroy the country"? His own statements belie any impartiality on his part.
Also, you seem to be advocating absolutely no change in republican behavior, although you could substitute "blatantly partisan" for "correct".
2
I expected the Republicans to gain about 5 Senate seats, considering where most of the elections were held. They probably expected the same. They've fallen seriously short. I wonder if they're in a panic?
5
@Thomas Zaslavsky
A blue wave would have resulted in more that 50 house seat pickups, and control of the senate. Yet that didn't come close to happening, despite the overwhelming interest by democrats. One has to wonder if the democrats are in a panic?
How do you call this fair reporting without noting that Snipes was reprimanded last week by a court for flouting FL election laws, and also 2 years ago for the same sort of thing? Is this an opinion article? If so it should be on the opinion page. C'mon, NYT, the nation deserves better reporting than this.
2
Crooks looking into the mirror and saying "something is crooked."
6
This is why the NYT is considered fake news by many. An honest reporting would acknowledge that Broward County election officials have been at best incompetent, at worst intentionally incompetent. The Broward County actions undermine faith in the outcome of the election.
1
It's happening in Maine too:
https://www.pressherald.com/2018/11/13/poliquin-campaign-sues-in-federal-court-to-stop-ranked-choice-count/
1
"Mr. Trump has been more combative and unrestrained in slinging claims of fraud and unfairness than Mr. Scott or Mr. DeSantis. The recount story hits many of the president’s sore spots, including his frequent insistence that his political opponents cheat against him and his unproved belief that American elections are tainted with illegal voting, especially by undocumented immigrants."
I really think the only "sore spot" Mr. Trump's claims of fraud and unfairness hits is the CRAZY spot. How did we every become the country that elected a president who feels it's his position to openly weigh-in on elections with blatantly false accusations -- undermining the integrity of the entire voting process and the foundation of our democracy. This crazy (dangerous) man (child) isn't the least bit interested in democracy. He is interested in a land-grab for power...at all costs. And the GOP is enabling him at every turn.
11
Is it a re-count or a count? Isn't it really an attempt to just count every vote, rather than relying on a statistical projection?
4
But the thing most out of the question, I suppose, is redoing the election. Why can't we have a do over? Why is that so impossible?
2
Trump said in 2016 that if he won it was proof the people loved him and if he lost it was proof the system was rigged. Diabolical.
This is the same ploy and it is just as shameful now as it was then.
6
It's not diabolical, he just knows his base for the Rubes that they are.
2
Rick Scott only had HOW many years to streamline Florida voting as their Governor?? It's not like this is a new problem there.
Now he leaves a giant mess to beg to be their Senator and is whining about a process he did not fix. Next.
15
Claiming rampant but unproven fraud undermines confidence in the outcome for all voters. Why should we believe that Scott or DeSantis are the legitimate winners should they prevail?
2
Republicans are dusting off the 2000 playbook for Florida electoral tampering, which is entirely predictable. The question is have Democrats learned anything about fighting back?
6
Stone: "I've never seen anything as brazen and outrageous." These days everything is hyperbolic, the most beautiful, the worst ever. Perhaps the strategy is to cry wolf so many times that everybody tunes it out. The Republican (and perhaps Russian strategy), just keep pushing until we all give up.
5
So when the election results remain the same, the Democrats can also yell fraud! And no one feels like there was a valid election. The only solution is a rerun. Never happen, too bad.
Our troops serving overseas are often the last votes counted.
Does trump and the other struggling Republican candidates propose cutting those voters out?
Count ALL the votes.
6
Count the votes and ignore the GOP. A lot of those votes are from veterans and ex-pats. Roger Stone and Trump have probably never voted in their whole lives, much less stood in line or mailed from a military base. So let them holler.
In Colorado we discovered that our Senator Cory Gardner is on some GOP smear committee that went on TV to disparage the vote of our neighbor Arizona as "cooking the books" for Sinema- offering no evidence. McCain's state was not amused. We called Cory's offices - he continues to be a Trump sycophant in a state that just rejected this kind of behavior.
Don't let these people ruin American faith in our vote.
12
The irony is that Gov. Rick Scott was CEO of the hospital corporation convicted of the largest Medicare fraud case in history. When he complains about fraud, he knows what he's talking about.
15
Having had a ringside seat to Brian Kemp’s attempts at voter suppression in Georgia, only to see him barely squeak by (at present counts) should be a wake up call to the GOP.
The day of the old white man staying in power are ending. If trends hold, Kemp will be a one term governor, and the left will rise in red Georgia.
5
Once again it is the courts that are the last line of defense in a sea of accusations of fraud with no evidence to support them.
I don't know if the judge in this case was elected, or appointed by a Republican or a Democrat, but I thought as I read the article "thank you Judge Tuter!" Yes, both sides need to tone down the rhetoric, and that can start with the man in the Oval Office.
If Donald Trump were a paid Soviet agent he could not be more effective in sowing the seeds of division among the people he swore an oath to defend. It is despicable, what he and his Republican cronies are doing to the nation.
4
Trump's and the strategy espoused by his GOP are as subtle as a toddler having a temper tantrum. Any election that they didn't win must have been fraudulent. In case you haven't noticed in the past two years, Trump's toolbox has only three elements:
never stop cheating, lying to, and dividing the citizens of his own nation.
7
It's one thing for state politicians to fight like animals over an election rather than throw as much light as possible on the process to make sure that there is no doubt about the final result. But when Donald Trump, the person who is supposed to embody the democratic process as the leader of the entire nation, starts to make noises about election fraud all we can hear is the voice of a political hack who doesn't have the moral bearing necessary for the leadership position he is supposed to represent. Never before in the history of this country has such a low-life, morally deficient, totally inadequate person reached the office of POTUS. We have had some inadequate presidents but none as despicable as the one who now occupies the Oval Office.
8
Who are these people who materialize for such protests complete with placards and flags, and apparently have nowhere else to be on a weekday?
Scratch the surface of this kind of PR stunt and you'll find some Roger Stone type organizing it and probably even paying people to be there.
13
I always wonder that too......how.
I'd be fired.
3
Ever heard of a winner of a horserace, casino, election etc. claim it was rigged?
2
Trump is following Putin's playbook of Deceive, Discredit, Divide,...exactly as prescribed, to weaken American democracy and discredit our image internationally. Trump is a willing and effective disciple of Putin's. That much is clear! The only question I have is whether his treacherous and treasonous behavior is motivated by financial gain or simply an unquenchable thirst for ego fuel, a la his mentor. Perhaps "both" would be a reasonable answer!
6
The simple fact is that the GOP has made it abundantly clear, repeatedly, that gaining power for themselves is more important to them than the right of the people to choose their leaders. They would like to set up a system in which it is impossible to remove them from power via the ballot box, and do their best to do so whenever they control the election apparatus.
This reminds me of the classic quip: "What do you think of American democracy?" "I think it would be a good idea!"
159
Republicans better be careful about crying fraud. If they win the Florida recounts for governor and senator, will they still cry fraud -- or will the recounts suddenly be legit? Florida's election may have been rife with incompetence, but the real fraud was in Georgia -- where the GOP's candidate for governor was also in charge of the election and guilty of massive voter suppression.
190
@Christy
If they win they will immediately and shamelessly proclaim the entire process to be a triumph of democracy and a mandate from the people.
20
@Christy If they win anyway, the explanation will be that it was IN SPITE OF massive voter fraud. Don't think they won't find a way to have their cake and eat it too.
10
@Christy Rick Scott had eight years to clean up the voting issues. He is calling fraud on himself for not doing his job.
11
This unsavory cast of GOP characters shows absolutely no remorse for what it's doing to the country. Trump unleashed the evils of Pandora's box; now others are unrelentingly following that lead. Viewed in the cold light of day, this is nothing other than an attempt to subvert our democratic system. To say it is unAmerican is an understatement!
98
@Mike: Yea, the Senator-elect in MS stated that she would like to sit in the front row of a lynching while her DEM opponent is Mike Espy who is African-American. The racism is going to drown all of America!
6
@Mike This precedes Trump, though he has certainly exacerbated it. The 2000 Election was full of shenanigans, including fake protesters paid by the GOP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
4
If they cast doubts on the legitimacy of the vote and both their candidates win, the Republicans will then say that the tally was legitimate? Or just that their candidates should have won by a larger margin. Having already suppressed the vote with some success, I'm amazed that the count is as close as it is. And then, the Republicans can't deny that Democrats flipped two long-time secure Republican seats in the House. That gives me some comfort, but not enough. We will fight on for a better day.
64
Trump will take revenge on Judge Tuter, no matter how long it takes.
7
I think my money is on Judge Tuter. Wouldn't it be sweet if he were a member at Mar-alago?
2
"In recent days, unverified and sometimes wild claims of sabotage and deception have been circulating on Twitter and elsewhere on social media, spread with the help of far-right activists who have large internet followings..."
Thus, the one millionth, one thousandth and first example of how social (sic) media is destroying democracy.
A Pox on Twitter and all who profit by it! Get thee behind me, Satan!
16
Amazing! The self proclaimed greatest democracy continues to not be able to count the ballots! Thousands of different ways to stop you from voting. 50 different ways to loose your freedom.
Your Union, your education, your minimum wage but you sure can shoot someone? Freedum!
21
Yup.....still beats Canada though!
@There
Lol. What?
Looks like it fair to question anything Broward County elections supervisor Brenda Snipes does. Look at her work history. She’s incompetent.
3
She was appointed by Jeb Bush to run elections in Florida’s most heavily Democratic County. Don’t you think her incompetence was a job requirement, to diminish Democratic voting? Her bad ballot design alone may have cost Nelson the election.
2
Republicans manufacture invasions of immigrants, mass theft of jobs by all kinds of blood sucking minorities, plots to steal mostly from the pure white race, and again plots to steal elections. This while they have gerrymandered districts all over the country and lied through their teeth to the American people about everything under the sun. I trust nothing they say or do at this point.
19
Lie, Cheat and Steal. The only way they can " Win ".
Seriously.
20
We need more prominent Democrats countering Trump, Scott, and the Republican fraud allegation machine. Voter suppression is criminal, and a behavior that must be tolerated by the electorate regardless of affiliation.
22
The electoral college needs to be eliminated and there needs to be a uniform voting system and rules throughout all 50 states and US territories. It's ludicrous that we've learned nothing from previous elections and we're still discussing possible issues with vote counting in 2018. We live in an electronic, computer driven, smart phone age and we still can't figure out how to manage a uniform voting process?
If the midterms in Florida, Arizona and Georgia are a problem today what is the 2020 election going to be like?
We need to make our Congressmen/woman and Senators know that enough is enough and it's time to put through a bill that creates a uniform voting system with enforced rules that will ensure all votes will be counted. Our founding fathers realized that this country needed a uniform currency. It's well past time for a uniform voting system.
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I don't see the wisdom in calling an election fraudulent when your party is currently ahead. Even if you win, I can't view the office credibly without another election. Rick Scott and company are effectively calling for a special election. Actually, I support that initiative. Let's have Florida try again.
That's obviously not what Republicans want though. Their fraud accusations are not only baseless, they actually constitute legitimate fraud.
fraud
/frôd/
noun
1) wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
2) a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
Republicans are once again falsely blaming their opponents of demonstrating their own conduct.
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@Andy Oh and gee, how much "fraud" has scott participated in prior to and during his "governership".
This state elected a wealthy criminal who due to entitlement got no time, but rather a balloon pay out to leave. The definition you present, is not theirs. I can't tell you how frustrating it is.
3
Yes, it's too bad Florida doesn't have another Republican Secretary of State with the impeccable, non-partisan credentials of Katherine Harris who could put the bickering to a rest in a manner that would again inspire publc confidence.
Though it has to be said, Rick Scott and Donald Trump are almost as trustworthy.
It does raise the question, nevertheless, of why the state of Florida, which has been in Republican hands for three decades, is unable to conduct an election the results of which are invariably open to question and litigation. Would someone please ask Rick Scott why this is so?
17
This race is extremely close and the recount is mandated by Florida law. It also seems a manual recount will be needed in some districts because of anomalous ballots.
Since most recounts tend to confirm the leader one wonders what Rick Scott is hiding with his vociferous and completely unsubstantiated claims of fraud? The person yelling the loudest and making stuff up is often guilty of something.
What dirty tricks did his campaign engage in? Seems he doesn't want people looking too close at the results. Or he worries an accurate count of all ballots in Miami-Dade and Broward (the largest counties in FL) will give the incumbent the win.
Let's count all the votes.
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@Michael I believe he did this in the election between he and Crist. I was watching live, Crist was ahead, and in ONE SECOND, it switched to scott winning. Hmmm a voter ballot box was hidden in a rental car in Broward. Guess that's GOP fraud? In a Dem County? Pssssh, no. The GOP needs renamed Rethuglicans, and Party of Mafia.
1
It's barely been a month since Kavanaugh was confirmed. All I heard from conservative pundits at the time was that accusations need evidence, and that everyone deserves due process. Those are noble sentiments. Unfortunately, many of the same people who just last month presented themselves as champions of jurisprudence and bulwarks against mob rule are now gleefully taking part in all manner of unfounded allegations and smears.
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@Evan, it's worse than that. Kavanaugh's was only a job interview. This is an election.
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They meant to say that accusations from DEMOCRATS need evidence. Obviously, Republicans can say whatever they wish.
11
Why doesn't a judge step in and stop the Republican antics all the way up to Trump. This is not his election. Had he not been driven to perform at his so-called "rallies" he would not now be forced to intervene to save his name from being associated with losses that outnumber success for the Republicans.
8
Republicans have already got a majority of 51 seats in the Senate and it's likely to expand to at least 52 seats. There really is no reason for all this nonsense, except that the right wing extremists fear the centrists in their own party. With only a two-seat majority it is entirely plausible three of their own might cooperate with Democrats, particularly if the House passes some centrist bills designed to appeal to them. They also can't count on Trump, who may just sign anything if he thinks it'll win him political brownie points. Without that extra seat it seems clear Republican hardliners think they might not be able to maintain gridlock in Washington.
13
They are preparing the justification for future voter disenfranchisement. That is how they will solidify their power permanently. Disenfranchise when they win, set up future disenfranchisement when they lose.
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The ability and right to vote for the candidate of your choice forms the most basic foundation of the democratic process.
The republicans with the full support of the republican party routinely engage in gerrymandering, frivolous lawsuits, violent protests and changing the voting rules to exclude certain segments of our society.
Everything they do goes against the wishes of our founding fathers to create a democracy.
This begs the question; "Why do republicans hate America so much?".
18
honesty is still the best policy
2
I think that Republicans in Georgia and particularly Florida are just so aghast that their voter suppression efforts didn’t prove to be enough to ensure them of a large margin to win the vote. Rick Scott as governor of Florida and in charge of all aspects of Florida government seemed particularly dumbfounded that his suppression efforts had not paid off as he had hoped. Now his only recourse is to stop the counting of ballots before his lead dwindles and he loses. How unAmerican and unpatriotic! I hope his supporters now see him for the crook that he is!
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Don’t hold your breath waiting for Florida republican voters to grow a conscience.
Scott spent $70 million on his first gubernatorial campaign, which just so happens to be the same amount of money that his company stole from us through Medicare fraud.
Strangely enough, he won second term.
I don’t think his supporters are having any doubts about degrading the U.S. Senate by sending the criminal that’s been their governor for eight years. In fact it’s their dream come true.
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@An Earthling, his company (before and during his tenure) stole hundreds of millions of dollars. Scott was forced to resign. See Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_America#Fraud_investigations
6
Nope, we love him!
The only reporting on republican remarks in this matter should be that they are baseless claims without evidence. The title of the article should be Fear Mongering Without Evidence. (perhaps that should just be a general heading under NYT title with all the articles of this administration under it.) Reports of voter suppression and the democratic idea of Every Vote matters should be the message that is repeatedly portrayed. Arizona shows that the republicans wanted to call the election by not counting votes in democrat leaning counties. Where is that story? There is clear evidence in the AZ story. Only by counting all the votes did the true winner emerge.
38
Why is it always Republicans who shout voter fraud. Can't get elected any other way? Can't get attention any other way? Angry that people just don't like them and their tactics?
37
If you wanted to suppress votes for Nelson in heavily Democratic Broward County, you would design a ballot with the senate race appearing beneath the long list of instructions in the first column. I believe Governor Scott is behind that crafty ploy. Who, exactly, designed that ballot?
37
They hate democracy. If you included all of the immorally suppressed votes and felons who can vote next time, looks like Florida has turned blue.
31
So, amidst the allegations of fraud in the recount which makes it invalid, what will the response be from the GOP when the recount upholds Republican victories. Will it then become a noble exercise in democracy? Perhaps the Dems should then say, "We agree. The recount was fraudulent so it cannot be accepted." They, and their president, should just shut up and sit down.
3
It is so obvious by now every close election when the GOP looks like they may not win, they call for a stopping of the recounts.
We remember Katherine Harris and Jeb! Bush so well for this.
Isn’t bad enough they gerrymander, voter suppress and purge names off the registration namely democrats?
If it weren’t for the electoral college the GOP would never win another election.
25
We cannot get outmaneuvered again (like we did in 2000). Agree with the commenters that say Senate Democrats must be much more vocal and united in supporting the recounts.
20
It’s not enough for Republicans to suppress the vote, disenfranchise Native Americans, use foreign foes the win elections, they will outright steal them by refusing to count ALL the votes, especially from overseas deployed service men and women, intimidate under-resourced voting officials, ....
The Dems should fight back and not allow them to roll over the will of the country as the did in 2000 and 2016.
13
Scott (and followers, and Trump) are trying to fix an election that they may actually have won! What does that say about character?
7
Trump claims that it's suspicious that 'more votes keep being found'. As an election official in PA,I can tell you that in PA this claim would be silly, and likewise I am sure it is in FL. These votes are not 'being found'. They are being counted. Some come in slowly in the mails, such as from troops overseas. Some are provisional ballots which require individual verification. Some were quick-counted in the pressure cooker of election nights by poll workers who have been on duty since 6 AM. If the initial margin is larger then provisionals and voted not yet received, under-vote or over-vote machine counted ballots, then it does not matter and recounts are not needed. If the margin is 16,000 in a state like FL, then the vote should and by law must be recounted. Trump's view is "voter fraud is when we lose".
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@Tom Jeff
Unfortunately, the low educated, ill informed loyal Trump followers will believe that votes are suspiciously 'being found.' And the educated, monied Trump supporters won't care as long as he continues to cut taxes and regulations.
7
@Tom Jeff
It's not that votes get counted late that is suspicious. It's that these late votes always break for the Democrats in tight elections.
I'm not saying this is fraud. Maybe Democrats are just always lucky.
I think your article inaccurately reflects Florida’s actual 2000 vote count which was 5 to 4.
This national election lunacy will continue until the electoral college is eliminated.
59
Um, where are the Democrats here? If Schumer doesn't have what it takes in this political climate, then he needs to step aside. NYT, aren't there any Democrats you can quote or find to speak out on this show? A person who would like to be president in 2020 could stand to counter Trump's outrageous inappropriateness here. Loudly.
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@CarolSon. Yes, it would be good to have a few Democrats speaking out in measured tones. It is more important to stand up to the GOP intimidation efforts quietly and persistently and make sure all the votes are counted.
7
In every election,,,it is always the DNC National Political Machine that howls for Vote Recounts. It is the go-to tactic in the DNC National Political Machine;s playbook. Provisional Ballots are actual fraudulent votes made Legal through some incredibly warped logic in Congress........the DNC National Political Machine has become very adept at using this tool to win elections thru recounts.................Then came Jill Stein.....the Independent.......who demanded a recount in Michigan.......where voterID is required.......and she PROVED beyond any doubt.....that Yes, the DNC is guilty of vote Fraud......having found something close to 110% of the voters in precincts throughout Detroit were all voting Democrat..............Squirm for me.
2
@Wherever Hugo You don't believe that provisional ballots are real? That's your issue. But what about absentee ballots, particularly those sent in by Americans serving and living overseas? Are those "fraudulent" too?
6
@Kathleen Warnock Kathleen that is correct. Provisional Ballots are simply legalized vote fraud. Think. Dont simply accept the Political corporation's explanation. And Yes, if you're overseas, no vote. I am a veteran and understand that is a duty and a sacrifice. I guarantee you, veterans return home and NEVER forget to vote. Freedom aint Free.
To quote the late Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; the more extraordinary the claim, the more evidence is required.
Much of what the GOP promotes these days is asserted with virtually no evidence.
When — if? — the United States is able to get back on the democracy track, it will require that a clear majority of Americans return to long-standing, critical standards of evidence.
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@C.B. Evans
Evidence? You mean like all the evidence of Russian Collusion ?
Its clear that Democrats cant accept any loss without blaming something other than the obvious which is that they got less votes.
Thank God for the Electoral College. If the far left succeeds in getting that changed America as we know it is doomed and it may already be too late.
Be careful what you wish for. Sadly Florida may be the next Venezuela within a decade or less and Arizona and California are well on their way.
@Ilooboch
Ah, yes, California, the 5th largest economy in the world, is just heading down the tubes, isn't it?
You must not have been paying attention to the numerous indictments from the Mueller investigation or the reports of our intelligence agencies that Russia interfered with our elections. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for evidence of the voter fraud spouted by Scott, Trump, and other GOP members. Trump and Kobach's voter fraud commission report should be out any day now - oh wait, it was dismantled.
2
@Ilooboch
Evidence of Russian collusion has been presented and more will follow. Will it be enough to convince the Trump cultists that they have been conned? Will any of them come to the realization that they are being played by a billionaire narcissist using them to gain further riches? Doubtful. Evolution is a slow process.
2
What was that playbook? Voter suppression, Repub dominance of the Supreme Court (not FL courts) which ditches "states' rights" (that local jurisdictions are entrusted with control)--and bullying: lies & fear, banging on the doors when necessary.
9
A Republican strategy not based on theft would begin with Rick Scott recusing himself from using his position as governor to influence the voting process.
70
So Florida is the new Spain For Trump and the GOP's testing of fraud strategies for 2020. The Dems should stand firm and expose these tactics widely, and press for victories in Mississippi (where even hinting at lynchings is not beyond a suitable GOP tactic).
32
@Tom:
Hopefully the Mueller investigation will have Trump in jail before 2020. Not that those still standing won't need strategies for fraud - it seems to be the only way the republicans can win any more.
12
The republicans are the party of voter suppression. They have been for years. Governor Rick Scott, who was CEO of a company that was charged with the largest Medicare fraud in the history of the USA, seems determined to have a replay of the Bush Gore fiasco. This time the Democrats aren't having it.
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