Well After Election Day, Florida and Georgia Voters Still Wonder Who Won

Officials were still counting absentee, provisional and overseas ballots, and the partisan camps were disputing how to go about it.

Comments: 124

  1. Here is a suggestion for what to do when the vote count is very close between the top two candidates: Each of the top two candidates will get to hold office for half the term of their office. For example, in a Senate race, the candidate with the most votes counted will serve for three years, and his close opponent will serve the last three years of the term. We need to end a system where the winner, even if he/she won by only a handful of counted votes, thinks that they can do whatever they want and ignore the wishes of everybody else.

  2. @Robert Lacks: I disagree. Why "reward" the loser at all? That will just lead to more rampant cheating.

  3. Ryan Mahoney, a spokesman for Brian Kemp, said that Ms. Abrams was “desperately trying to steal this election in the courtroom.” “No ragtag group of liberal activists or lawyers from D.C. will be allowed to steal this election from the voters of this great state,” said Rick Scott, visibly agitated, at a news conference in Tallahassee. And yet in 2000, the Republican party and a political SWAT team of right-wing lawyers and activists happily disregarded democracy and vote-counting in Florida via the Supreme Court in order to steal the Presidency for George Bush. The bedrock principles of modern Republicans are massive voter suppression, vote-rigging, political theft and infinite hypocrisy. Brian Kemp is trying to steal the Georgia governorship in broad daylight. Rick Scott is an experienced Medicare fraudster with Columbia HCA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital_Corporation_of_America These two political criminals belong in federal prison for massive civil rights violations and the overthrow of American democracy, not in political office. Fight like hell, Bill Nelson and Stacey Abrams. Russian-Republicans abandoned democracy a long time ago.

  4. @Socrates "Red Tide Rick", well known Medicare fraudster, is also known for his disdain of the environment - in a state that relies on pristine beaches that do not reek of dead fish and algae bloom. People of good will are rooting for our mild mannered, hard working servant of the people - Senator Nelson.

  5. @Socrates Not to disagree with your depictions of Kemp and Scott, and I find DeSantis horrifying too, but 1) it is past time for hand marked paper ballots that are publicly counted 2) the democrat party needs to find the Democratic party of a past age where voter registration and suing the pants off of secretaries of state employing despicable acts like 'voter caging' and 'exact match methods' are primary priorities.

  6. Florida, my state, where votes are counted and recounted, and ultimately litigated. Floridians know that winners are determined by who has the lawyers with the most influence in the political halls and/or courtrooms. Who is going to play Katherine Harris in this '2000 redux?

  7. I wonder why Republicans always demand an end to vote counting to contest elections, while Democrats always demand that every vote is counted. I wonder...

  8. A candidate who gripped the reins of the vote counters has lost his credibility to rational people. The Democrats "want every vote counted". The Republican refrain is "Rampant Fraud", "steal the election", "desperately trying to steal the election". A refrain with a substantive amount of "doth protest too much" and White House style projection.

  9. Please keep the Republican Supreme Court out of Georgia and Florida. We have already been down that road.

  10. How many Americans know that once the 2000 recount was properly completed-- and *after* George Bush was installed by the Supreme Court, obviously-- it was determined that Al Gore had in fact won the election. Al Gore had gotten more votes in Florida. The people chose Al Gore for president. Yet this wasn't the big headline it should have been. It wasn't THE BIG HEADLINE. And it should have been, right? Isn't the fact that Al Gore actually won the election in 2000 a big deal? Perhaps we don't like our democracy to seem as deeply flawed as it is.. Or those of us who lost don't want to seem like sore losers... Whatever the reason, we now see that Brian Kemp-- who was in charge of the election he now claims to have won-- will be installed just as George W was, unless citizens are encouraged to connect dots, remember history, see patterns. I suggest that journalists make a point of informing/reminding readers that Al Gore DID IN FACT WIN the election in 2000. Despite the biased electoral college, despite widespread voter suppression efforts-- he won. So this story-- happening NOW-- matters.. It matters a lot, and if the media treats this story as a cute little sideline matter, it is not getting the attention it deserves, and we are not seeing that unless we do something, history will teach us have taught us nothing.

  11. Gee, you'd think that the Republicans don't want a fair and thorough recount, no matter how long it takes - fancy that! This reminds me of the person in the White House, who insists upon his innocence and but is doing everything in his power to stop an investigation. At least the facade of caring about everyone's right to vote is gone. Rick Scott, billionaire, screeching about liberal lawyers from D.C. Guy's got chutzpah.

  12. Everyone knows who won except Democrats who refuse to accept the results of a free and fair election. Casting doubt on the electoral process is a sure way to undermine democracy. Democrats need to grow up and start trying to govern. So far all I have heard from their “massive blue wave” is “lawsuit.”

  13. @Sue Mee: Sue, your post is right out of Trump-ill-logic land. Sorry, you fail to hear and pay attention. Free and fair elections when voter suppression is a huge problem in many states--please, don't insult our intelligence. Let every vote count. It is called democracy, and you should try it sometime!

  14. What bothers me most about this are the politicians' inflammatory rhetoric over counts and recounts. They are all accusing each other of trying steal the election using armies of lawyers and hired guns. And Kemp's victory lap with the current governor is particularly egregious. These candidates should, above all, support the democratic process. If you are in the lead and think you legitimately won, then you should have no problem with a recount to verify that. You don't need to accuse anyone of anything. Let the process play out. If you are not in the lead, you -- and all voters for that matter -- have the right to demand a fair count. If you believe in democracy only if your side wins, then you don't believe in democracy.

  15. Broward County continues to magically 'find' tens of thousands of new ballots. This piece does a disservice to its readers by not pointing out that Broward County Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes has a very clear and documented history of incompetence and fraud From the Miami Herald today: "Snipes is no stranger to controversy. A court ruled in May that she illegally destroyed ballots from a 2016 congressional race and the state announced that it would send election experts to Broward County to make sure that laws are followed"

  16. Honest recounts are one thing. "Discovering” troves of new votes three days after the election is another. Is this really a recount or an effort to redo the election.

  17. Mike Livingston - they are, to use your word, discovering and opening mailed in ballots (including those from armed forces overseas) postmarked on or before Nov 6 and adding them to the totals. Furthermore, Florida law REQUIRES the recount when the difference is less than a half percent. The Senate Race has a .2% difference. Chill, maybe they'll all be Republican votes!

  18. This sounds like a horror movie. Let the right one win.

  19. @Matt586 You're right, the Right one wins.

  20. Democrats, even if you ultimately lose these races this is a pivotal moment for you to show some backbone. Fight until the last ballot has been counted and if you lose then concede graciously, but not before. Too often Democrats have caved in the face of Republican ferocity and that has got to stop.

  21. We know who won, there are just those that can't accept the winners.

  22. The winners are determined by those that COUNT the Ballots. In EVERY Election, this time the shenanigans are just more visible. Seriously.

  23. The governor of Florida is claiming voter fraud in Florida? That's ripe. In Georgia, the just now former Secretary of State stole his own election when he is within a few thousand votes of being thrown into a mandatory runoff? That's ripe. In Georgia, Kemp may think he is the governor-elect. I think he is a moral criminal and perhaps, perhaps an actual one if someone could bring the right case against him. I vote in N.J. On Tuesday I went to the polls, found my precinct table, gave them my name, was asked to sign the voter registration book and the receipt for my ballot, which I handed to the poll worker at the booth. I entered the booth. I voted. That's all. No ID nonsense, no one saying I had to show the exact name I had registered -- NO modern equivalent of guessing how many beans are in a gallon jug. Until every southern state, every Republican state trusts everyone who votes, until every one of those states does what we do and as we do at election time in N.J. there will be no free and fair election in the United States. We in N.J. get tired of the accusation that we are a corrupt place. In fact we have more honest government than most states, but be that as it may there is one thing for certain: Using the law and political power to suppress voting, stopping people from voting because of their race, is a far more corrupt thing than any other possible conceivable offense I can imagine public officials committing.. s

  24. For Republicans, Democracy is by voter suppression. If Brian Kemp is sure that he won the election, why not be transparent and go for re-count or count all votes required by law, and expedite the process.

  25. Dems busy pulling "ballots" out of closets in Dekalb and Fulton Counties.

  26. @J Buffington Now that certainly doesn't make sense. No one is putting ballots in closets. All citizens want the right to vote (without the fear that comes from voter suppression) and they want to know their vote will be counted. Simple. It is time to stop inflaming people's emotions!

  27. More lazy and misleading “both sides” reporting. At least in Florida, it is flatly untrue that “Officials were still counting absentee, provisional and overseas ballots, and the partisan camps were disputing how to go about it...” This is wrong. In fact, election officials are still counting ballots in Broward County, and REPUBLICANS are trying to stop them from even being counted. Thats right, they are trying to prevent legitimate ballots from being counted. That is not a “dispute” by “partisan camps.” That is ONE partisan camp—the Republicans—trying to steal another election. Using the “both sides are doing it“ formulation makes the reporter sound unbiased, but please stick to the facts.

  28. Go DEMS! Late resigner (after having done enough damage) Kemp & (Trumpist) Scott deserve to lose, their opponents, Abrams to win and Nelson to be reelected!

  29. Buckle up, here we go again! It's the height of hypocrisy for Scott and Rubio to accuse Nelson of trying to 'steal' the election. The recount is required by state law, the state that's had Republicans rule for years. The epi-center focuses on recounting Broward where there are senior retirement communities and also (ahem) where Marjorie Stoneman Douglass High school is! Everyone's vote counts!

  30. All I know is that the Georgia election for governor was most likely rigged by Brian Kemp. And no matter what is said I will never believe that it wasn’t. And he did this himself by refusing to step down as Secretary of State. I feel sorry for the majority of the citizens of Georgia whose voice was shut out. This is just another example of the many criminal and corrupt politicians who make sure we don’t count and are only to be used and ripped off.

  31. During the recount in 2000 Republicans sent goons to disrupt the recount and were successful. Be prepared!

  32. It must be a coarse of what goes round, comes round.... After all, we all remember 2000 and the ‘supreme’ court awarding Florida to Bush

  33. This is a very interesting, and revealing, comment by our (ugh!) Gov. Rick Scott: “No ragtag group of liberal activists or lawyers from D.C. will be allowed to steal this election from the voters of this great state,” said Mr. Scott, visibly agitated, at a news conference in Tallahassee. If I recall my history, it was the "ragtag group of colonists" in the fledgling United States who defeated the blue-blooded redcoats. Very interesting that Rick Scott sees himself as landed gentry, and the rest of us as a "ragtag group." I hope he loses the recount.

  34. @Scott F. And a rag tag group of lawyers from DC who guaranteed George W Bush the Presidency, including Brett Kavanaugh.

  35. @scottf Not so long ago some of those DC interlopers came in to Florida and declared W a winner over Gore, but maybe that's an alternative fact. Bet Scott wouldn't have complained then.

  36. Hunch that both Republican candidates, De Santis for governor and Scott for the US Senate, are, as they used to say at Brandeis High where I spent bulk of my academic career as a dean and bilingual social studies teacher,"you frontin!" Scott especially,when he speaks about Dem. Party lawyers coming down from Washington to steal the election. Living in Broward County, majority Democrat, appears almost a foregone conclusion that Nelson will emerge victorious. Unsure about De Santis's victory, but he seems to be on surer footing in his claim to have won the race for governor! Midterms have been a real slap in the face for the G0P, since Arizona, it appears, will also elect a Democrat to the Senate!Maybe the love affair between Trump and his supporters is fizzling out!B;ue wave or red wave, Trump no longer appears to be the wave of the future,but a rear guard political movement to keep its supporters from being submerged!

  37. Rick Scott: Look, I spent 64 million out of my own pocket to buy this election fair and square I demand my money's worth and I won't tolerate anything like counting all the votes. So just give me my seat and go along.

  38. Here we go again Florida. How absolutely embarrassing. Can't the people even be trusted to elect competent Supervisors of Elections. Rick Scott has filed 2 lawsuits over the election about his premise of voter fraud with absolutely no evidence. Stupidity maybe. But Scott would say fraud because it's the Republican mantra. This coming from the world class criminal Scott who beat the Medicare fraud charge while his underlings went to jail. I'm glad for Gillum and Nelson but it will probably turn out like the Gore recount with the Republican Sec. of State in charge and Scott with his finger in the pie. And Mr. Scott I resent being called a "ragtag liberal" by you particularly because I feel you are one of the unparalleled fraudsters of this century. You disgust.

  39. @Bethed This is why elections should be run by nonpartisans who aren't on the ballot.

  40. @Bethed: As a lifelong Floridian, I think only the media is encouraging people to think Florida is "nuts" and that only Florida has close elections which mandate recounts. I am happy the recounts are mandated. And, yes, the Repubs would steal yet another election if they could.

  41. @Bethed Scott knows all about Fraud! That is how he made all of his pharma money.

  42. "Moral Rot Scott" wants only Republicans to steal elections. Back in 2000, because of an aggressive voter role purge by Jeb Bush's administration, thousands of Floridians were denied the right to vote because they were wrongly identified as convicted felons. Bush "won" by 537 votes after the recount was overridden by the Republican appointees on the Supreme Court. Republicans all over the country have been using every trick they can think of to limit voting because they don't want democracy. They want power.

  43. It's very interesting that Arizona and Florida are always so close. Is it because they both have large numbers of older white retirees moving there but also many younger immigrants? That seems like a recipe for an equally divided state.

  44. @Matthew S: Good point!

  45. I read that barely half of registered Dems turned out in FL vs. 63% for Republicans.

  46. @Jeff If true, the Democrats should stop their whining and blame their lazy base for not doing better on Nov. 6. Where this this information come from?

  47. "Still wonder"? "Stress was palpable"? This kind of reporting reinforces the GOP attack on actually COUNTING the ballots. In Washington State, the Sec. of State certifies elections THREE WEEKS after Election Day, so there is enough time to receive and count every ballot, and resolve every challenge. It works. In California, lots of races are still undecided. They are still COUNTING the ballots. No one is alleging fraud or freaking out. It's normal. In States like Florida and Georgia, with GOP policies that make voting difficult and uncertain, it is even more difficult to count the ballots, as there are many provisional, emergency, and challenged ballots to resolve. Calm down, and let the process proceed. The GOP has created this crisis, and the mistrust of the process, through their own policies of voter suppression.

  48. @Kraig Peck: Great post!!! Indeed, 'calm down' is the most sensible direction for the electoral process to unfold.

  49. I am still holding my breath that Sinema has surpassed McSally as we are almost done counting early mail in ballots. I rushed my mail in vote for medical cannabis a few years ago, was told we'd missed victory by a Smarting degree, but then woke up to another new day of nausea relief!! Seems those who vote first have the last say in AZ anyway. The most nauseous vote first.

  50. Who’s monitoring the voting machines and the individuals doing the recount ?

  51. Where’s Jeb Bush when the GOP needs him?

  52. The principle should be that every vote counts. Count the ballots fully and fairly and let the chips fall where they may. What are these Republicans afraid of that they want to squash the democratic process?

  53. Republicans can't stand democracy, gm. Russia should grant them all citizenship and welcome them with open Kremlin arms.

  54. Losing control.

  55. It's fascinating how the GOP 'winners' in these stories are pronouncing their victories and "nothing else to see here" as if the assumed wins were by landslides. The less fact they have the more they can cling to their own truths.

  56. @MitchP The two rules of Florida and Georgia Republican politics: 1. If you don't win, challenge the legitimacy of the election, even if you caused the problems in the first place. 2. If you don't have the facts on your side, shout louder.

  57. Arizona is also in play. this should be top line news.

  58. “No ragtag group of liberal activists or lawyers from D.C. will be allowed to steal this election from the voters of this great state,” said Mr. Scott, visibly agitated, at a news conference in Tallahassee. Since Scott can't imagine blacks as people he can't believe that there are votes there to be counted. And because even if they are people voter suppression has always worked. He is living proof of that so what's different now.

  59. I wonder how many snowbirds illegally cast ballots down here when this isn’t their primary residence? Elections officials in Florida have openly admitted they wouldn’t have any idea if that happened. I’m guessing that’s the real voter fraud we need to be investigating...

  60. With mysteriously broken voting machines, far too few machines in nonwhite districtst, tens of thousands of votes in Georgia missing, and thousands upon thousands of voter registrations kicked out for ridiculous grammar nitpicks by elections overseer Kemp-the new mantra must go beyond VOTE. The new mantra must be VOTE and watch like a hawk to be sure your vote is counted!

  61. In Georgia, with the Diebold non-trackable, hackable voting machines we have, I've been wondering who really won since 2002.

  62. 2000 replay with Mr. Gillum subbing for Mr. Gore in conceding for no apparent reason. And despite the protestations of Mr. Scott, one must ask "exactly what great state are you referring to?" Is greatness measured by the ongoing threat of administrative incompetence and chaos. Wake up, Florida. Clean up your act, Georgia: If you need voter suppression as a key factor in your elections, why bother?

  63. why not just get all the second graders in FL to count the votes?

  64. And just so we are clear, it is a proven fact that Brian Kemp purposely closed voting stations in predominantly black areas, declared tens of thousands of mostly black citizens invalidate, and refused to step down from the post the is responsible for the vote counting. This is beyond appalling and goes well beyond voter suppression. How can anyone believe that this is not criminal? Even if I were a hardcore conservative who would have voted for him I would have been outraged that he didn’t step down as Secretary of State and questioned his motives. It truly makes me wonder about what is wrong with the brains of those who do not question this behavior and would still vote for him anyway. It’s really no different than having a bank robber guard the bank vault. Brain Kemp left himself in a position to rig the vote in his favor and displayed a tendency to suppress voting. In a realistic democracy would this really be tolerated? Why would he not have been disqualified? Is it not a conflict of interest? Why are the conservative republicans of Georgia not outraged by this as well? Are they seriously this deeply racist that they would allow and condone this? I am disgusted by what our country has become in the last two years. The divide between us continues to widen and conservatives are blind to the fact that this is a well orchestrated act by trump, most republicans in office, the Russian government, and other dictatorship and nationalistic governments. Divide and conquer.

  65. @David Parchert Keep repeating: winning is all that matters. Laws don't matter, norms don't matter, fairness doesn't matter, history doesn't matter, if they get in the way of winning. Say this to yourself this over and over until it all makes sense. Feel better now?

  66. Delighted that Stacey Abrams is hanging in there. She has run a model campaign, despite Kemp's voter suppression tactics, which were formidable. And Florida's history of very close elections means waiting it out until all the ballots are counted is the right thing to do. Who knows--maybe Gillum will be the next Governor of that state!!!

  67. Mr Scott and Mr Kemp seem to be more contentious and divisive than is good for the their two states. Let the election tally drag out until there is no possibility of any vote being lost and the results cannot be questioned by anyone. If the Supreme Court had not interfered in 2000 there my never have been an Iraq war with loss of thousand of American lives and ISIS would not be the Islamic terrorism force it is today.

  68. Sickening to watch the president bickering with the press on the White House Lawn as he took off for Europe just now. Trump mentioned the "very bad people" (Democrats) in Broward County who are responsible for recounts of Midterm results for Gillum and Scott. The president didn't say word one about Palm Beach County, which is where he has owned multiple properties since the Year Dot! There are good people in both counties who are sure that Trump's minions, Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis, lost their races for Senator and Governor, as will be proved when the ballots are recounted. We are at least happy that the President wasn't granted billions of dollars for his great wall separating America from immigrants on our Mexican border, and also that his desire to show off America in a Centenary of World War I, featuring a braggardly military parade down Pennsylvania Avenue on November 11th, was shelved. Though Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum conceded to Ron DeSantis, and though Bill Nelson didn't concede to Rick Scott, we await the complete results of these two Florida County's Elections. Let's all hope 2018 won't be a grotesque replay of 2000 in Florida.

  69. Florida has evolved between the parties for years. From Reconstruction to the 1990's Florida was a safe southern Democratic state with all state wide offices filled with Democrats. The saying was that if you didn't register Democrat you were basically disenfranchised. The Republicans did not gain ascendency until Lawton Chiles died near the end of his term as governor in 1996, the year Jeb Bush was elected as only the third Republican Governor since Reconstruction. For the last 22 years, the GOP has dominated state-wide elections. Bill Nelson was the only Democratic exception to that rule. Nelson has been both lucky with the political climate when he had to run and with the caliber of his opponents. But this year Nelson had the political climate going for him but not a weak opponent. Governor Scott ran an excellent campaign and was all over the state, including assisting in the hurricane recovery in the Panhandle. He invested $65 million of his own money in the campaign. There was nothing more he could do. The election outcome starkly shows how closely divided the state has become. The South Florida coastal counties (Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach) are overwhelmingly Democratic. The rest of the state is Republican or toss-up with few exceptions (Leon, Alachua & a couple of others). This is why the elections are always decided in Tampa, St. Pete & Orlando and their immediate surrounding counties.

  70. @JAM And may I add that St. Lucie county on the east coast, midway up the state, is also mostly Democratic.

  71. @ Miss Pae Attention Yeah, thanks for reminding me. I lived there for 11 years and the GOP was never able to convert the county to Republican. They came close during the Reagan years but the county resumed its Democratic allegiance.

  72. I find it appalling that voters in these two sates don't seem to want fair elections. Voters finally sued Brian Kemp because they thought the election was compromised? They just figured this out? After 2000 wouldn't you think Florida's voters would want to make sure they had a fair system? I didn't think wanting a fair election was either a GOP or Democratic desire. Guess I was wrong.

  73. We saw this movie before, guess this remake is called 'The Return of the Hanging chad' *spolier alert* The GOP wins and the DEMS will complain about it for 20 years

  74. Gee, anyone who believes Kemp is honest is a fool. He thought he could blatantly get away with cheating and now may not get away with all his purging and making it harder for blacks and Democrats to vote, and dare I mention voting machines with out electrical cords and what ever else he could think up. The only way republicans can win elections is to defame and smear and lie about their opponents, and to cheat, cheat, cheat. Actually they may not need the Russians.

  75. We who always used to think Florida was a decent place now regret ever moving here 12+ years ago. Just look at our government: 1. Rick Scott - now the likely senator - is a crook who does not even deny he is a crook. He's proud of his record of stealing. He, like the maniac in Washington, wants only to line his own pockets = which he has been doing since the company he headed embezzled seven billion (that's a"B" in that number) from Medicare. He is anti-health care coverage, against any kind of bans on weapons, anti-medicare coverage - against any and all things good for Florida citizens. 2. And Scott will be serving as senator alongside the useless, spineless, Marco Rubio. What a pair. 3. Failing a change that a recount could bring, our new governor, DeSantis, is a Trump worshiper and butt-licker, has no agenda other than appointing conservative judges, and is a bigot, racist and fascist - witness his "don't monkey around" comment on the election aimed at a black candidate. Another example of a despicable human being. 4. Replacing the horrible Pam Bondi as Attorney General is someone with Bondi's value system - anti-health care, pro-insurance companies, someone who is ill suited to represent the citizen of Florida in any useful way. If it were not impractical, we would move out of this state - and frankly out of the nation. The USA as a functioning democracy is finished so long as Trump and his kind remain alive.

  76. Oh, they know who won all right. What they don’t know is who will be awarded the victory. Why is it always Democrats challenging Republicans?

  77. @Larry They don't know. That is the reason for delay. I wish we could take what ever time is needed to count all votes, every time so that we don't have these situations. Even if we don't get the results that night, it would be a lot less stress on everyone, and we would all have more confidence in the results.

  78. @Larry It's not.

  79. @Larry It's Democrats challenging Republicans because it's Republicans and their fellow travelers who are engaging in voter suppression, deliberately misleading communication, threats, intimidation, purging of legitimate voters from voter rolls, gerrymandering districts...I'm growing weary but the list goes on. There's something wrong when a party believes it can win only if it prevents people from voting.

  80. Scott and Kemp are just part of the GOP playbook. Screaming terms such as "fraud, steal" when it looks like, gee, maybe the vote tabulation should be complete, but it happens to be in Democratic areas. Just like their boss who, even winning the electoral, couldn't stop whining that millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary (of course never proven). I think back to the heartbreak of Gore/Bush decided by a partisan vote (by some lousy DC interlopers). I think of gerrymandering by the GOP (WI Assembly: Dems 54% of vote, 36 seats, GOP 45% and 63 seats). I think of watching helplessly and powerlessly as Merrick Garland was denied even a hearing and now we have two right wing Supreme Court Justices ramrodded thru the confirmation process. We are helpless against the lies of Fox, info wars, Trump, Saunders et all. The odds are so stacked against the truth, people like Kemp and Scott know it, but there is such a lack of decency within the leaders of the GOP they still can't help themselves. I'm thinking of Beto's concession speech. Don't think I'd ever hear something like that come out of their mouths. I'm going under the covers again, love your neighbor, love your neighbor...

  81. Why do we always feel the need to know who won ON election night? I think all states should have a week mandatory counting period following all elections. With so many ways to vote and so many places doing this differently (which also needs to stop) why not wait and get it right? If the election results are correct, everyone wins...even if they lost.

  82. American think of itself as a democracy, it mistakes periodic elections as proof of democratic values. Many Americans probably do not know that elections are also held periodically in China, Russia, Iran and many other countries that are considered undemocratic. In the conduct of elections, America falls far short of the minimum standards of fair elections. It is the only western democracy where partisan politicians rather than independent bodies are responsible for the conduct of elections and delineation of electoral districts. A partisan who is also a candidate can have responsibility for the conduct of elections. Only in America! In most other places such a practice is a recipe for violence. Although I knew Americans electoral practices are bad, I didn't know how bad until yesterday. A friend who lives in Georgia voted in person on Tuesday without any problem. He received a call yesterday evening around 6pm that his vote was considered provisional and that he must show up at a specified location before 4pm today, otherwise his vote will not be counted. How many people can afford to take another day of work to ensure their votes are counted. America should stop sending election observers to other countries until it fixes the obvious problems in its own.

  83. @David. The United States is no longer a full democracy according to "The Economist" annual Democracy Index. Using indicators in five categories (electoral process, functioning of government, political participation, political culture, civil liberties) we have now been downgraded to a "flawed democracy". We should be ashamed! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

  84. From our vantage point here in Canada, US elections make elections in the worst Central American banana republic look honest. Here is what is supposed to happen. 1: Divide up constituencies fairly. 2: Do whatever is needed to make sure everyone has the opportunity to vote. 3: Count all the votes. 4: Declare the winner. Why is that so hard?

  85. Surely Kemp doesn’t suspect his assertions of voting fraud will cause distrust of his system? Shocker.

  86. I am so tired of rich white men who complain that they are oppressed when minorities are provided with equal voting rights

  87. Poor judgement is Kemp's hallmark. He should have known nobody with a brain would trust the word of a man supervising his own election to the highest office in the state. It's a joke for him to say that he himself has certified his own election. Kemp's hubris has him in this predicament now facing a run-off. Had he resigned at the start, he might have been declared the governor by now. But he chose be unethical and this is bed to lie in now.

  88. Recounts are great. If nothing else, they make people who didn't bother to vote feel guilty and stupid for abdicating their civil responsibility. Hopefully, that guilt results in them voting in the next election. As far as Rick Scott is concerned, his temper tantrum upon learning that there will be a recount and his baseless claim that his opponent is trying to steal the election reminds me of that Trump guy who campaigned for him. If Rick keeps up this kind of nonsense we may have to retire the phrase "Great Scott!"

  89. Wanting all the ballots counted. How unreasonable of the Democrats. Good heavens. What has become of our democracy?

  90. Kemp had authority overseeing elections until after election day, when he finally resigned to do his victory lap. But his campaign is accusing Abrams of “stealing the election?” We don’t just have foxes guarding the hen house. We have foxes accusing hens of stealing the eggs. America is a full-blown banana republic. All we need is for Trump give himself the rank of Generalissimo and to start wearing gaudy military uniforms and chest full of medals.

  91. Interesting that the complications are due to laws and procedures in Red dominated states.

  92. Do we need UN observers to oversee our elections and insure every vote is counted?

  93. Republican cries of "Foul!" are always the loudest and most shrill in the discussion but that does not give them any more merit. In light of the disastrous 2000 election, which was settled without any legitimacy by the Supreme Court instead of the voters, citizens of Florida are correct to be wary of GOP election tactics. And it's a little too late for Republicans to pretend that they haven't read the President's childish tweet stating, as usual without any evidence, that "Florida voted for Rick Scott!". The GOP have worked hard over the last two decades to show American what they are: cheaters and liars who don't care for truth or legitimate elections. They will label any election that they didn't win as "illegitimate" and they will use any tactics to cheat our system of government. After two years of lies, FBI investigations, misinformation on social media, and a President who doesn't believe in the US Constitution, The GOP can not be trusted to govern justly. Let all of the votes be counted.

  94. So strange how democrat election officials magically find votes, and heck wouldn't you know all the votes were for democrat candidates!

  95. The deadline for clearing up provisional ballots was yesterday. Sorry, no matter how fast you count, you can't count any votes before they are officially cast. Additionally, since the suppressed votes were those of Democrats, it is to be expected that most of the votes on the provisional ballots are for Democrats. The only surprising thing is that you think New York Times readers aren't smart enough to know that.

  96. Rick Scott's ranting sounds so unstatesmanlike. It's astounding! He apparently feels completely entitled to the position without regard for finding out the truth/real results.

  97. @Celeste That he would not allow the use of the term "climate change" pretty much tells you everything you need to know when it comes to how morally bankrupt "good old boy" Rick Scott is..

  98. I believe all votes should be counted, and the uncertainty creates anxiety on all sides. Each side believes the other will go to any length to get an outcome, and they are probably right. This early vote and mail-in ballot counts (the total number not the vote) are to be reported to the state 30 minutes after polls close under the Public Records Act. Further, during the ballot counting, updates are to be provided to the state every 45 minutes. This was not mentioned in the article.

  99. How do you get an overwhelming win on giving felons who have paid their debt to society the vote and the democratic candidates don't win. If you want to talk about possible voter fraud start here.

  100. @Steve Ax A lot of Republicans and independents thought it was only fair for felons who completely paid there debt to society be reinstated as full citizens.

  101. It's simple to tell what Republicans are doing. Just look at what they accuse Democrats of. Why is that Rs don't understand the concept that all votes cast are equal, regardless of when they are counted? Of course, it worked for them in 2000 in Broward County, and now the Supreme Court is even redder than it was then, so why not go for it again? Florida should just change their constitution. They could save considerable money by skipping elections and just letting the Republicans tell us who would have won.

  102. It does make you wonder, as with the presidential election, if all of the eligible voters that could have shown up and voted did so, how would that have affected the numbers?

  103. Broward County appears to be a cesspool of corruption. Democrats must not be allowed to steal the elections.

  104. @Rolf ...That's right. Democrats must not be allowed to steal an election. Stealing elections is Republicans' job.

  105. Coherant, uniform voting standards!!!!!! Why does Florida & Georgia not have them?!

  106. As long as the Supreme Court does not end counting and hand the election to the GOP as they did in 2000, Democrats have a good shot at both seats. SCOTUS was respected in 2000. They don’t enjoy the same respect now.

  107. More election fraud in Broward County.

  108. Just as Trumps behavior is not the behavior of an innocent man, Scott's behavior is not the behavior of an honest winner. I'm not speculating one way or the other - just the way it looks to an outsider looking in. Regardless of who wins, why is it the GOP has such a difficult time simply making sure every vote is counted and the results are accurate?

  109. I have a bias in how I want these elections to break. But I will never understand why anyone wants to exclude any vote from being counted. Sure, I'm hoping the liberal counties in Florida have a lot of uncounted ballots and will swing the election. But I also believe that oversees votes, which are more likely to break for the Republicans, should be counted fully. But it sounds like some are going to look for excuses, probably on both sides, to exclude votes. And Florida should know better by now!

  110. I too think that all votes should be counted but numerically speaking the overseas ballots, where the preponderance of the votes are for military personnel, is NOT going to impact the state's totals - it's the uncounted ballots in the rest of the state that will determine if there will be a recount. Again - and it's extremely dangerous to try and extrapolate how these votes will break based on history - the majority of outstanding ballots come from counties that are substantially more densely populated and are considered either Dem strongholds or at least Dem leaning. The reports I heard last night said that Broward had released about 1/3 of their uncounted ballots yesterday and that was enough to appreciably diminish the leads Scott and DeSantis built up Election Day. The most important dynamic for Dems in this election was always going to be turnout, particularly with respect to increasing turn out among Millennials - that occurred nationwide but was most pronounced in cities and urban population areas and from what I've heard (not that this is any guide to FL, people under 30 were breaking 70% Dem.

  111. Butterfly Chads ?

  112. Let all the votes be counted and the winner be revealed. I am sick that people like Kemp exist in this country. People like him and Trump are despicable. Time for the courts to step up their efforts to protect voting rights and limit crackpots like Trump and Kemp in their dirty work.

  113. Welcome to the GOP's new definition of election fraud: counting votes.

  114. When you’re in charge of your own election and you get to draw all the lines, you start to look pretty suspicious.

  115. Isn't gerrymandering "stealing?"

  116. You barely mentioned Arizona, just briefly in your last paragraph. What's going on there? Hello ...

  117. Would someone, anyone, care to provide any substantive evidence of election fraud in Broward County, other than Scott's baseless claims? I mean, you'll just have to excuse the fact that I don't fully trust the claims coming from the guy who ran the biggest medicare fraud in history.

  118. You know what's funny to me? China has a high speed train that travels the 800 miles from Shanghai to Beijing in 4 hours. In the United States of America, nearly 300 years in, we can't even get voting fair or easy. We have an antiquated system designed from a 13 colony agrarian society. Now we have 300 million professionals expected to find hours on a Tuesday in November (see rain, snow etc...). This should be a federal holiday with vote by mail and vote early available everywhere. You would think we would have broken our jaw by now as we continue to fall rung after rung down the ladder of society.

  119. Anyone upset by counting & recounting votes to ensure a correct result is an opponent of democracy.

  120. I am baffled that elections are called when they are so close and before every ballot is counted.

  121. The United States voter can always count on conservatives to suppress votes.

  122. @EDC And US voters can always count on Democrats to “lose” certain votes while miraculously “finding” more in in there favor after a vote.

  123. There is a way to minimize the delay and contention surrounding razor-thin election outcomes. And - as a bonus - increase the chance the outcome might better reflect the collective will of the voters. It's called Rank Choice Voting. (If it's not familiar, look it up.) It's not appropriate for all elections, but where it is appropriate it has advantages. Many cities, the State of Maine, and a number of other major democracies use it. It's worth considering.