Is there such a thing as a malpractice lawsuit against law-makers? Can we sue them?
7
Actually, I don’t read these articles anymore.
Please start doing “man bites dog” or “Congress passes gun control law” stories... I’ll be more likely to read.
But another mass murder in the US? Why is it even covered as news?
2
Maybe we’re just not getting through to the A listers on the NRA register in the $$$ terms they can understand.
How about calculating the cost of
education at the time of death plus lost lifetime tax revenue and economic activity that would be generated by the person who just got shot and killed...
VS
...the taxes generated by the gun manufactured to kill the victim less the costs incurred by the community in the aftermath.
The gun doen’t contribute as much money to the economy as the victim would have.
I guess it’s all down to selfish personal reasons, not collective reasoning that sustains the status quo.
4
Here in WA State, we passed a citizen's initiative for reasonable gun control. We raised the age to buy a semi-automatic weapon from 18 to 21, we extended the waiting period and more. It will not solve the entire problem, but it's a step in the right direction. Initiative 1639 passed with a 60% majority.
As a retired psychologist, I can say that it is virtually impossible to identify when a person will commit an act of violence, in spite of what the NRA says. The NRA has a posture of absolutely no controls on firearms. “People kill people, not guns” is ridiculous. One can make the same argument about cars, yet we regulate drivers. It's time to take a similar stance on guns and push back on NRA insanity.
10
@Svendsk
First, isn’t the position of the NRA.
Second, as a psychologist you don’t want the burden of distinguishing between a responsible gun owner and one who is a danger to others so you want a blanket set of laws that absolves you.
That’s not how it works. You have the responsibility whether you accept it or not.
2
Unless there are laws at the national level, nothing changes. Will just get these things from other states.
4
Please, make it stop. Please, make it stop. Please, make it stop. I don't care what it takes, just please make it stop.
4
People are getting frustrated and angry. If Newtown and all the other shootings haven't forced action, what will? If there is a tipping point, what horror awaits.
5
Is it too soon to point out that these aggrieved men who do the shootings might feel that their grievance is validated by a man in the White House who talks about his grievances even though he was a millionaire by the time he was 8 years old and was given $414,000,000. But the point is he talks about white male grievance and it makes some, very few, white males act out on their grievances.
7
@JAW
Conversely maybe they are reacting to the ugliness of the left, which now disparages not only the president but millions of Americans as well.
Since you’re assigning blame.
2
Deepest condolences to all 13 families. I'm not sure if this madness will ever end. Despite surviving last year's shooting in Las Vegas, one of the victims from the most recent episode of gun violence remained anti-gun control. If being shot at doesn't change your mind, what would, what could?
3
It seems unwise that these survivors would go back to a large country music venue. I would have stayed home.
2
We all know the NRA will prevent any meaningful action from being taken to reduce mass slaughters in this country, including those which occur at schools. That being the case, there are some things parents can do to limit the pain/loss when a school shooting happens in their neighborhood:
1. Have more than one child, so that one being slaughtered at school won't wipe out the entire next generation of that family
2. For those with only one child, freeze some of the mother's eggs so that having another child may still be possible even when the mother is past childbearing age
3. Never allow all the family's children to attend the same school at the same time, where a shooter could kill them all in a single attack
4. Have pre-loaded into their child's smartphone a message along the following lines:
"Mom, Dad, we have been told there is an active shooter at our school right now. I am trying to stay safe. I wanted to say thank you for being my parents and that I love you in case I don't make it home."
Not all children will have the time or presence of mind to compose and type such a note themselves while hearing their schoolmates and teachers being hunted and gunned down in the hallways and nearby rooms. It won’t ease the pain or loss, but it's better for the parents to receive a farewell text rather than nothing before finding out their child is dead.
1
I think We Americans still live in "Wild Wild West" where people fear strangers and outsiders and guns are the only things that they think will protect them. This is nothing more than the manifestation that we live in a fear-driven culture. So we will continue to see more Columbines, Sandy Hooks, Parklands and to conduct our daily business as if nothing had happened to us. I don’t know how long this toxic culture will last, but I know it won’t go away soon.
My family and I are US citizens but have been living abroad for a while. We have a kid in college already but the one heading soon is questioning the safeness of the US colleges because very often she hears about shootings and nothing is done about it.
If the legal age in California is 21 years old why is one of the victims only 18? Can anyone clarify?
Because in America you can get shot in kindergarten, so everyone knows laws are meaningless.
Read the article. It was a college night out. All students were allowed in the bar to dance and listen to music. Unfortunately, this being Merika, they were gunned down instead. Hope that explains it for you.
3
I'm tired of hearing "it's not the guns, it's the person pulling the trigger." How about we get rid of the guns and see if that's actually true. I'm willing to chance it, anyone else in?
13
Attention tourists:. According to USA today, since January 1st, 327 people were killed in mass shootings so far this year in the USA. That works out to a little more than 1 mass shooting death per 1 million Americans this year. The chance of a tourist being killed by a mass shooter during say a one week vacation here would be much less than 1 in a million.
1
Yes! We’ve had a health mental crisis for a while... The mental health of the NRA and the fanatics of the stupid rhetoric of: “we have to protect the second amendment” excuse is enabling them to continue to allow these masacres of killing inocente people continue without being accountable.
They should be the ones put away.
It’s time to stop this nonsense.
3
It may take time, but when enough mothers get tired of this, no one will have a gun.
2
The numbers here are confusing. How many people in the bar that night were also in Las Vegas. It's too horrific not to make the numbers absolutely clear.
Why is there a quote from Sara DeSon and no further mention of her. Why aren't Mrs. Orfanos and Nicholas Champion at the top?
Why rehash facts already reported and muddy the waters here?
The root is the evil that the US does abroad.
Marines are trained to kill. There is not much you can do, if Marine, after practicing his skills in Afghanistan on human beings, snaps and decides to do the same in the States -
except not get involved in foreign wars.
1
The life style of party nights must be modified beside love for guns. Las Vegas, NV survivors were at Borderline Bar in CA.
Every time I think - never again. Then I turn on the news and it’s yet another shooting. This must stop.
Just because you survived and others didn't doesn't mean "someone is looking over" you. That implies that no one "was looking over" those who died. You got lucky. They didn't.
2
Sigh....NYT why not just "copy" these comments and paste them again in a week or two.
There could be five THOUSAND comments here and it doesn't matter.
Copy/Paste.
Rise/Repeat.
Thoughts/Prayers.
See how easy?
5
Trump said the California shooting was a mental health problem; that is, not a gun problem.
Ok Mr. President. What have you done about mental healthcare? You nearly ended the Affordable Care Act, which would have removed mental healthcare coverage from millions of Americans. You have been promoting junk insurance policies that don't cover mental healthcare.
You, Mr. President, are part of the problem. You have blood on your hands.
9
2 Times articles:
“Bearing F’s From the N.R.A., Some Democrats Are Campaigning Openly on Guns.”
and
“Another Mass Shooting, but This Time House Democrats Promise Action”
Wow, what progress!
This time? How many deaths does it take for the Democratic Party to start representing the rights of all Americans to live out their life expectancy?
In dozens of other democracies, restrictions on gun possession are widely supported by all parties—right, center, left--- and all citizens. Same nations with health care for all.
How many deaths do we tolerate as inevitable?
What does it take to stop rationalizing death and destruction by equating gun possession with ‘American Freedom’.
What does it take for congress to adequately fund CDC research into gun violence, then pass laws on basis of data and evidence and common sense?
No other democracy is so deluded by a warped credo, reinforced by gun maker subsidies to politics with election donations.
The NYTimes needs to interview some citizens of other countries and ask them why they support gun access restrictions. Then compare to the warped rationalizations of our gun lobby and their kept politicians. Compare and contrast.
3
Our country allows, supports, gun killings on a daily basis with abandon. In war situations the media shows pictures and names of those soldiers who have lost their lives - well done media. So why shouldn't society expect the news media to at least show on a daily basis the number of those killed by guns, say on the upper corner of the TV screen for at least thirty seconds or print media show todays number killed by guns like todays temperature? Should average around 88 per day. Or should I be one who may think the news media is complicit with this unending story providing certain viewership/readership!
William J. Marley, Homer, Alaska
2
How can those who oppose gun control claim to love our country when day in and day out, regular Americans and law enforcement are in danger? What kind of love of country is that? Just because it is written in the Constitution doesn't mean your fellow Americans have to die for it.
4
No. I am sorry but this shooting, as horrendous as it was , gives me pause. This was a crazy person who went off the deep end and killed 12 people.
Yet we too soon have forgot far worse tragedies like our FDA who approved opioids for pain killers and killed 70,000 people last year.....roughly 12 people every 90 minutes.... for a year..... by "public servants" that are supposed to protect the health of the nation. And it is still going on. Still killing close to 12 people every 90 minutes. I wonder what our founders would have thought.
1
There will always be a segment of the population that will go berserk at some point. It happens in America and everywhere else in the world. But when someone who has gone (berserk) has only her fists or his kitchen knife, there is limited damage that will occur, versus running around with AR-15s and other high performance killing machines. The US has a rate of deaths by guns 10 X higher than other high income countries.
Reducing (or managing, controlling, whatever you want to call it) guns should come first. If that pleases others, am OK if then comes more mental health screenings, thoughts & prayers, etc. But the above (gun control) is the priority.
4
Originalists:
you really think this is what the 2nd Amendment was meant to protect?
GUN CONTROL NOW
LIABILITY LAWS NOW
3
In 1994 there were over 1.5 million “assault rifles” in America. Currently, estimates start at well over ten million.
In 2012 we already had over 300 million guns, not including unreported or illegal sales and transfers, underground dealers, militias, secret stashes and arsenals.
Every call for restrictions has been met by national purchasing surges that empty gun shops, adding millions more guns, billions of rounds of ammo, and parts, loading devices, and supplies.
There are still no suitable, adequate systems in place for preventing most shootings. Even if there were, they’d depend upon fortunate coincidences supported by thus far absent and unusual efforts, and even then, we’d have to wait for countless people to be identified, analyzed, entered in systems, and then for that info to be available, in the right way, at the right time because no system works with undocumented people or weapons. If we do manage to implement any new restrictions, they’ll be undone by the next swing of the political pendulum, as with the assault weapons ban.
It’s often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results; but still the insanity continues, both sides playing their parts, hopelessly locked in a descending spiral.
We have a political system, and it can work, but it requires honest, respectful, productive dialogue. We’ve lost that, and with that, for now, any hope of stopping these killings.
2
I think that as a country, we should fly the flag at half mast continually from now on - what's the point in raising it to full...seeing it at half mast has become more of a continuum at the campus I work at, here in Las Vegas.
2
If people are serious about gun control, and I believe they are, they should realize that blaming the NRA is a waste of good energy. It absolves those truly responsible for gun safety. In Parkland, everyone, even the FBI, was advised he wanted to be a "school shooter". All felt helpless to stop him. That is a far bigger problem than the NRA.
2
It is very simple. The reason why America is the only country in the world where mass murders like this have been happening on a regular basis is a total luck of a reasonable gun control. As well as a total luck of a reasonable discussion of this terrible problem. The smug and self- serving promoters of the 2nd Amendment know perfectly well that it was, first, about "A well regulated Militia" and second about "the right of the people" - not about the right of an unregulated and definitely not deranged individual - "to bear Arms". And most important, it was written hundreds of years ago and in a reference to a context that no longer exists. And it all comes down now to this: some inconvenience for gun-lovers versus thousands of lives lost or destroyed (of their love ones) plus those ones that are being scheduled by the Providence to be surely lost tomorrow and the day after tomorrow and so on...
This Republican is wondering how many slaughters it will take for us to keep guns away from irresponsible people. I sympathize with the survivors, friends and family in this case, but I have no interest in reading details of this very redundant incident. We should have taken action when small children were murdered in Connecticut.
3
Great, but I'm wondering how many Republicans like you do exist out there who favor "actions' to be taken to control the practically uncontrolled availability of guns in the US. And if they do exist, how come their representatives in Congress aren't aware of them? control@Donald Champagne
1
This is so profoundly disgusting. How can members of the NRA sleep at night? How can politicians who fight gun control tooth and nail sleep at night? How can Christians who supposedly follow a peaceful God, sleep at night?
1
GUN CONTROL. GUN CONTROL. GUN CONTROL. Start the chant and don't stop.
6
Let’s just be blunt about this. All these shooting deaths are the responsibility of the republicans in Congress Their intransigence on passing common sense gun controls and their pandering to the NRA is the bottom line cause. Their mental health issue is a ploy. Every other country in the world has their own crazies, yet nowhere else does this occur. The only difference is this rampant supply of guns. Obviously their hopes and prayers are useless and becoming a cliche.
6
If it were their children dying would Washington's response be the same, do nothing? We need control over gun ownership. if we cannot come to some reasonable solution then we should eliminate the second amendment and start over.
1
I think the question that must be asked is why has the USA hatched so many mass murderers? Guns make is easier for the deranged to kill quickly and efficiently, yes, but why so many of these psychopaths?
2
This country needs a Comforter-in Chief and I nominate
President Obama for the job. There is no attitude of caring except token from the White House. At least I don’t feel one. We need someone that is a model of caring instead of insults and blame. This nation is hurting from disasters and it’s off to France?
1
Is someone (anyone?) studying these mass shootings and considering potential laws or practices that might have prevented them? I would love to see statistics from which some conclusions might be drawn.
1
What new research do you need? America’s gun laws mean that guns are freely available. The law that will reduce gun violence is the law that reduces gun availability. Evidence is available from every other developed country.
5
We have the research: weekly mass casualty shootings. What we need is : GUN CONTROL.
2
Very disheartening, we want to live peacefully , look at other countries Australia,European countries,Canada,Germany ,asian countries anywhere in the world people are living there with no fear of shootings except in USA , Trump please stop Gun violence , Trump first provide life safety and security , please save America from its own Gun violence
1
TRump? He doesn’t care. His minions love guns, and he needs them.
2
Here's my question: Do these people show up to vote in every single election, local, state, and national? And, if they do bother to show up, do they vote for the NRA party (formerly known as the Republican party), or do they vote for the party of common sense on gun issues (aka Democratic Party)?
Those who do vote, and do vote for gun control have my deepest sympathies. The rest, not so much any more. This might sound heartless, and I don't mean to be, but this story is getting very, very old. By next week we will all have moved on from this one, won't we (all of us except the devastated family members, that is), and it'll be on to the next one. When I read about this latest shooting, I had to search in my memory for the one that happened last week. "Wasn't there one just last week? Let me see, which one was that? Oh, yes, I remember now: the synagogue one."
For heaven's sake, Americans, wake up. Inform yourself about issues, and vote. Shame on all who can vote but don't. And shame on all of those who vote for the NRA party, just so they can get a few more grubby pennies in their pocket through lower taxes. Wake up.
3
Watching my kids grow up with Sandy Hook, Parkland, and more. I was terrified then but I told myself that atleast my kids were home with me so I could keep them out of harms way, mostly. I told myself that chances are that it won't happen to us. I tell my kids that we will keep them safe and it won't happen to them. I try to not over react about the dangers "out there." But I now have a teenager who wants to go out and be a teenager. She wants to go to college and party with her friends. As a young adult, she will want to go to yoga class. I am deathly terrified of sending her out there. And the laws of chance are showing us that it not only can happen to us but it can happen to us more than once.
25
@Ms B I don't want to sound mean, but unreported context -- which is the media's fault -- and human nature and your not knowing the real math ("laws of chance") are leading you astray. You can relax quite a bit, or live in fear more proportionately armed with the real data. Your teenager is many, many times more likely to die from *any* of these causes than from a mass shooting:
transportation accident
drugs
suicide
illnesses (all causes)
Your teen is also more likely to die of causes such as these than from a mass shooting:
sports accident, for many sports, including bicycling and football (if a sports participant)
influenza
cancer
individual shooting (if male)
See, for example:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_05.pdf
3
@Ms B. Actually the law of chance shows you that it very, very unlikely to happen to you. The same law shows you that the odds of it happening to you twice is far, far more unlikely then it happening to you once. You should not be deathly terrified of everything that is not provably impossible.
1
When is Congress going to value human life over the NRA?
5
Ok here is the solution. Vote the GOP out of existence. Put liberal progressives in power. Then we will see the gun control necessary to stop the slaughter. The Conservatives could care less about gun control.
4
It’s too easy to get guns in America. This is the fundamental reason for all these horrific shootings. “When will they ever learn”? Pete Seeger.
4
Tragic as this is, we have about that body count in my town every month. But they die in different parts of town, at different times and the media shrugs. The WP reports there were 68 mass shooting deaths in 2018, defined as incidents with more than 4 victims. There were 12,475 gun related deaths excluding ~22,000 gun suicides. Even if mass shootings became a distant memory, it would be just a drop in the bucket. Even if you look at the past 20 years, mass murder accounts only for ~1% of victims.
4
@Skinny hipster You have it exactly right. As horrific and preventable as some of the massacres are, they represent only a sliver of gun homicides, which themselves are only a little more than a third of gun deaths, with nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths suicides.
Note to world: Do not come here. We're very violent and racist and we love it this way. Also, do not allow us to move to your countries. This infection of stupidity simply must be quarantined.
6
Acts of violence towards strangers could be considered one of several telltale signs of an unhealthy civilization. Smarter gun control would make it more difficult for mentally unstable individuals to acquire arms, but ultimately I don't see it stopping members of society whose malignant anitpathy towards one or more cross-sections of society is so strong they don't even value their own life and will end the lives of complete strangers.
I think outlets for mass readership/viewership in the U.S. such as NYT would be doing a service to their readers to present a more in-depth look at the forces helping to create mass shooters. These people appear to be falling through the cracks of a highly fractured society and developing an extreme of misdirected anger. Why is this becoming more common, surely it must go beyond the individual if the trend is societal.
Peter Bogdanovich is in the news of late. Let's take a moment to remember his first film as a director (before The Last Picture Show) even if he prefers not to. The film is called TARGETS and upon original release it had a prologue that cited the need for gun laws after the killings of Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063671/
The film presented a chilling look at a Charles Whitman-esque sniper who just killed without any perceived motive. That was 50 years ago. And here we are... still.
And prints no longer carry the prologue.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
3
In 2009 there were ten people shot by a lone white male in my home county in a twelve mile span between my home town and a neighboring town. The victims included an infant that was wounded and a child of three years old shot dead. Yes the children were deliberately targeted. The three year old and the mother were buried together.
Ever since then, I have been very alert to my surroundings. I speculate that many American women are feeling the same.
My vigilance has nothing to do with the “media”. It has everything to do with my reality.
2
Those who say Guns don't kill people never faced a lone shooter, nor offered a solution to the epidemic.
1
Who funds the NRA?
They have 5 million members paying about $25-30 per year. That’s $150 million.
But their annual revenue is $400 million.
So are gun manufacturers financing the NRA with $250 million??
Or are people/governments outside the US sending money to the NRA, as a way of influencing US policy?
4
The answer is yes to both questions. Manufacturers donate hundreds of millions to the nra. It is a political lobby for the industry. And yes, the Russians also send money to the nra.
2
Russia funneled $35 million through the NRA to Trump.
4
My friend and I were visiting California and Vegas last Nov shortly after the mass shooting, the night before that trip my mom called me and asking me not to get into large crowds as she saw the news all over the internet which obviously worries her a lot.
This reminds me of my first visit to the States 10 years ago when I just graduated from college and got hired by my employer, a company in Wisconsin. I still remembered the day when my manager told me about this biz travel to the headquarter in Milwaukee, I was really excited and thrilled. My mom was also kind of proud that I got a job and I was able to travel to the States for work in the 1st year. I also spent a year in a suburb area north of Milwaukee and close to lake Michigan. Perhaps it's those early-days experience that makes the States my favorite vacation place; since then I've been to several places in California, Vegas, NYC, Seattle and Hawaii...
But now, when I tried planning another trip to the States there is always a voice yelling at me saying is it safe to be there? It would be a nightmare to go thru this kind of things while it would be even more torturing for my family if I ran into this kind of thing and can't get thru it...
2
We don’t go more than three days without lowering the flags to half mast. Don’t know why we even both to raise them at all.
2
Both wsws and NYT have stories w the same date line.
NYT: 'Investigators said there was no clear motive. Mr. Long, a Marine Corps veteran who had served in Afghanistan, had apparently been wrestling with his own demons: officers responded to a disturbance at his home in April, and mental health specialists spoke to him about his military service after suspecting that he might be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.'
wsws: 'The connection between the eruption of US militarism in every corner of the globe and the epidemic of anti-social violence and mayhem at home could hardly be clearer. American imperialism recruits young men and women, often “economic conscripts,” to do its dirty work in the Middle East, Central Asia, Africa and elsewhere, forcing them to commit horrendous crimes and undergo brutal, psyche-destroying experiences. When the Pentagon has done with them, it releases them to their families and into the general public. In too many cases, these veterans are walking time-bombs.
'Hugh Gusterson, professor of anthropology and international affairs at George Washington University, argued in 2015 that while veterans accounted for 13 percent of the adult population, “more than a third of the adult perpetrators of the 43 worst mass killings since 1984 had been in the United States military.” He added, “It is clear that, in the etiology of mass killings, military service is an important risk factor.”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/11/09/thou-n09.html
2
I am 100.00% for re-institution of a comprehensive semi-automatic weapon ban, and oppose the NRA agenda, but the media needs to do its job. Only a tiny fraction of Americans will ever experience a mass shooting, and only an infinitesimal sub-group, more than one. This piece reads like it's a new norm. It's not. This piece misleads.
About 33,000 Americans die by gun yearly. Nearly 2/3 are suicides. Of the remaining roughly 13,000 gun homicides, the vast majority are individual shootings, in which the majority of both shooters and victims are male young adults or teen males, with blacks disproportionately represented among both shooters and victims.
White college and college-age kids are on average *many times* more likely to be killed by a myriad of causes other than gun homicides, including transportation accidents, drugs, suicide, and illnesses. While the media should report gun massacres, and while their preventabiiity should be discussed, their frequency, compared with other calamities, should *always* be put in context. The media, including the NY Times, fails on this.There were 40K motor vehicle deaths and 80K flu deaths -- including not a few among young adults, including pregnant women -- last year.
3
Wow, what a bogus argument. We do regulate and institute laws to minimize deaths from all of the “other” activities you site. We can’t do anything about guns because of a nebulous phrase in the constitution.
3
It's like the rest of the advanced world had a problem with a virus that kills and they developed a vaccine to cure the problem and America knows about the vaccine but refuses to use it because America has the 2nd Amendment.
5
I'm sorry for everyone's loss, but gun control won't stop this. California already has the nation's strictest gun control laws, yet stuff like this still occurs. Why? Because you are keeping the actual law abiding citizens from arming themselves and potentially stopping a mass murderer. You can ban firearms completely in the US and that won't keep criminals from still owning and using their weapons to commit atrocities like this. Why do you think mass murderers pick soft targets? Because they know there won't be anyone there to stop them. Wake up people, we don't need more gun control laws, we need law abiding citizens to arm themselves to stop these senseless killings.
3
Gun laws at the state level are pointless. We need national laws banning high capacity magazines and AR rifles, as we did prior to 2006.
2
Long’s suspected PTSD did NOT kill 12 innocents. His Glock semiautomatic pistol with large capacity clip did. So long as your Supreme Court holds your 2nd Amendment rights superior to your rights to life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness these mass murders will continue unabated.
4
His glock semiautomatic pistol levitated itself and fired.
@Lewis Sternberg
To many of us it's the Extreme Court.
If you click the link "what we know about the gunman" you'll read that he deployed to Afghanistan with the Second Battalion, Third Marines.
I was the file clerk for "two three" from 1971 to 1972. This is an insignificant footnote in a great tragedy, but I mention it just because it is my old outfit. It feels slightly personal. Although it pales compared to his other sins, he has brought dishonor to the Corps and to has (and my) outfit.
I know I wasn't even close to the best Marine in the barracks, but I did my duty and got out with an honorable discharge. I never served in combat because they never asked me to. I can only imagine how different it would have been if I and my battalion had been deployed.
To the dead and those who love them, I can only say that my connection is a raindrop in the ocean compared to yours. I wish you the best of luck recovering from your loss.
4
If he was suspected of have PTSD, why was it legal for him to buy a gun in CA? Why do people think it's ok to shoot innocent people? Even if he had PTSD, why?
6
Only 5 murders in 2017? Five is too many. God save American.
1
I'm a library media specialist at a school. I frequently think about this happening here and the fact that I have to step outside the media center to lock the door.
3
A nation that bombs other nations at will shall never know peace at home. We are a violent people and, as Dr. King said, the greatest threat to peace in the world. Can anyone doubt it? Blaming one president, no matter how despised, is a cop-out.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
7
The horrific 9/11 terrorist attack had the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund (VCF) and the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010. In other words, the families and the estates of the murdered people were compensated more than $ 7,000,000,000.00 dollars for their deaths.
I'm unsure on what merit or basis the lawsuit was based on, but the US government compensated most of the victims families.
Why isn't there funds established by the US Government to pay the victims of shootings? There have been 307 mass shootings so far in 2018 in the USA as of October 27, 2018.
The US government established a "mass killing" as 3 or more people killed at one time.*
*https://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass-shootings-in-the-us-when-where-they-have-occurred-in-2018
Surely, with the US being the capital of the world when it comes to lawsuits, there ought to be, some kind of lawsuit based on "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.
When people are murdered on a regular basis by guns, they are deprived of their right to have life, liberty, and pursue happiness.
Where are the lawyers and the government when such horrific events are occurring 30 times a month (almost on a daily basis) in your great country?
It is time that the government take responsibility for this carnage, or it is brought before the courts to be held responsible in the failure to protect its' own people!
7
Country music fans should put pressure on the musicians with the largest followings to campaign and fundraise for gun control. Even if they won’t do it for moral reasons, they should do it so their fans will stay alive to come see them and purchase their music.
7
Is Trump's wall intended to keep Americans inside? From the comments I've read, many people feel it's unsafe to be in the USA what with all of the homelessness, and the overwhelming feeling of danger because of our beloved 2nd amendment. It's time to re-visit our right to bear arms, and place an emphasis on "the land of the free'. Freedom from gun violence would be a good start. Free to go to a bar or a musical venue, not wearing a bullet proof vest, and not having to be on guard every minute you're "enjoying yourself".
If we continue along the path that the NRA, and the politicians who are on their payroll have paved, we will be living in a police state. We will need armed guards at the entrances of all schools, movie theaters, malls, and arenas to protect the people (targets) inside.
Can this scourge be reversed? I'm not sure, but immediate steps have to be taken to make gun ownership much more cumbersome, and limit the number of weapons anyone can legally own. There is no logical reason for anyone to own multiple AR-15's and an assortment of semi-automatic pistols with multiple high capacity magazines. This is not a hobby, it's an illness.
The ATF and the FBI should be visiting those who presently own large caches of weapons to get a feel for their mental state before it's too late. Anyone who owns more than a gun or two would be suspect, and a purchaser of large quantities of ammunition should also be interviewed.
5
@Richard: I am beginning to suspect that having armed guards everywhere is exactly what the crazy right-wing militia people would love. Seeing how the Texas Republicans eagerly started pushing schools to arm teachers and put guns in the classrooms after the last school shooting here made me realize that there is a far-right agenda that involves having an unofficial right-wing militia that controls the general population. White men patrolling the streets armed with long rifles slung across their backs, as if they were refugees from a Mad Max set, are increasing in number with the passage of open carry laws. It is a shocking and unsettling sight to see men like that in the middle of a large city. If we get used to this, who knows where it is going to end? A right-wing militia coup? Will the army and law enforcement join together to stomp all over the Constitution, merely to preserve the Second Amendment? Many people's current willingness to limit other people's freedoms in order to preserve their right to lug weapons around leads me to think that a militia-led coup is not entirely an ephemeral conspiracy theory.
2
PTSD for civilians. One more medication to add to the daily pill dispenser, I guess.
4
Guns should be rare in any civilized society. Obviously ours is not civilized.
10
Simple. Hunting guns for hunters. Hand guns for police. No handguns or military weapons for civilians. It's time for sanity to prevail.
14
Absolutely. There is no reason for civilians to be armed. Period. Here in Sweden it’s extremely difficult to get a hunting license. One must pass several tests before being granted a license and the weapon must be kept in a locked safe separate from ammunition.
Simple. And nobody here is afraid that the government will take away our rights. That’s what we have elections for!
10
Republicans after every mass shooting: “IT’S NOT ABOUT GUN CONTROL IT’S ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH.”
So, okay, what legislation are you going to push through to ensure everyone can afford access to mental health care?
Republicans: “OH MY LOOK AT TIME HAS IT BEEN 15 MINUTES ALREADY. NEWS CYCLE OVER. BYE!”
6
@citybumpkin
Gee, might that have something to do with the fact that the majority are law-abiding responsible gun owners?
In CA there is already a gun protective order, rarely used, it seems. Enforce existing laws, then see if they're effective. Until then complaints are just noise.
1
Let's get insurance companies out of the healthcare arena and into the weapons arena. Why not? They've proved to be spectacularly successful at limiting most people's access to good healthcare, so they would probably be equally fantastic at putting the kibosh on people with too many guns, the wrong kinds of guns, people with mental health issues who have guns, et cetera. They could limit guns and make a fortune off of the paranoiacs who think they need a gun for every occasion.
6
So CA gets the shooting of the week.
Let's just save some time and leave all the flags at half staff permanently....
What a disgrace.
6
HEAR, HEAR!
A big round of applause for the :
NRA
deaf, spineless politicians
'Merica's gun manufacturers
Wonder when something REAL will actually be done about this....?
3
The Republican Program
Loop
Gun shooting
If high-KPM (Kill Per Minute) gun then
Give "thought"
Give "prayer"
State "now is not time to talk guns"
State "don't politicize this tragedy"
Repeat Forever
5
At the very least we need a gun owner registry, much like a sex offender registry, which alerts you when someone with an AR-15 moves into your neighborhood or town.
8
#1 we have too many guns and they're too easy to get. The mentally ill and the weak and the socially impotent are drawn to guns like moths to a flame. The gun promises strength and power and clout and safety. It is too seductive to resist.
#2 I heard an interview with an Ohio sheriff who suggested we lower the standards for involuntary commitment. I think he had tremendous insight into what we are facing in this country. "danger to self or others" is too high a standard for an involuntary commitment. The standard must be lowered to "in obvious need of psychiatric intervention" and it must be legal to hold someone for 72 hours under 24 hour mental health observation against their will and not have it part of a criminal record. In that 72 hours their family could secure all weapons, perhaps even find another place to live, secure more permanent help for the patient and have some control over their own safety. With testimony from a psychiatrist a judge could then order the patient retained or released depending on the situation. We can't keep releasing psychiatric patients into the care of their family when if a hospital were to discharge a heart patient into unskilled care they could be sued for neglect! Mental illness is just as life threatening an illness as heart disease- both in the risk of suicide and in violence. I posit that the Baker Act and the empty promise of "community care" is simply legalized neglect.
2
Wow that’s dystopian. Snatch people off the streets at will. That’s freedom for ya. Why not just ban guns? We will still be free.
1
I've lived in both the USA and Germany. While the US certainly needs better gun control and improvements to health care and social services for those economically deprived, it's also a warm, friendly, diverse country with many interesting places. Germany is a wonderful country too, but in a supposedly "safe city" while studying at university many years ago, I was once followed and nearly mugged. In the same city several years later, there has been a spout of violence against refugees. I believe it's a matter of perspective and prudence when traveling. There are dangerous people everywhere. We must go on living the best lives we can and act with dignity and humanity wherever we are in the world.
2
I would guess that the people who have lost loved ones to gun violence would not equate your near mugging in Germany to the tragedy / pain that they have endured. Very different issues.
5
@Expat For Life I'm not minimizing gun violence. It's absolutely horrible and heartbreaking and I feel for these victims and their families. The violence recently experienced in my German town towards refugees was arson. The assaulter in my attack had a weapon. Had I not screamed and someone heard me, I would also not be here. Violence is awful anywhere. I'm simply saying that we must cope with terrible times and live the best we can.
I am deeply saddened by this outrageous and hate-filled crime against so many ordinary young people enjoying themselves in a bar. It just makes no sense.
It is also tragic that California's gun laws are not working. There is a ban on AR 15 and AK weapons (sometimes called "black guns") but that type weapon was not used in this horrendous crime. The shooter used a rather ordinary Glock .45 semi-auto pistol and equipped it with large capacity magazines. California wants to ban large capacity magazines for rifles, shotguns and pistols but that is opposed by the NRA. Frankly the NRA is out of touch with most Americans who whole heartedly agree that large capacity magazines are not necessary for hunting or target practice. No one hunts deer with 30 round magazines. Furthermore it is not necessary for private citizens to own or have access to that amount of heavy firepower in any type weapon.
In my view no hand guns should be sold to, handled or owned by anyone under the age of at least 25. There is no need for handguns that can lay down heavy fire. There should also be a restriction on those who own semi-auto pistols, carbines, rifles and shotguns that requires a periodic physical and mental health examination by a professional. If someone has even a parking ticket or got caught jay walking they should not have access to weapons of any kind. Weapons should be prohibited from malls, theaters, hotels, schools, colleges, hospital and public buildings and areas of all kinds.
4
Instead of just reporting on the interesting details of our mass gun deaths, maybe the NYT should provide us a well-researched article about who is funding these deaths -- the politicians, that is, who won't even take up the question of serious gun control. Dark Money remains a dark chapter in our violent country. Money controls us more completely, it seems, than anywhere else in the world.
4
In the military we train young men to kill and send them into combat. They return to us as experienced expert killers. A percentage of them will inevitably have difficulties reentering civilian life. We must offer all combat vets a full range of psychological, medical and financial services for their sake and ours. Guns have little to do with it, other modalities of violence exist. focus.
1
Nothing will change. This is because Americans love their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms and the NRA knows this. So while 90 percent of voters want background checks, the gun control issue is a single issue. So when Trump campaigns for the republicans on tax cuts, immigration, jobs, Supreme Court picks, etc., the guns issue gets swept under the rug until the next mass shooting, which brings with it the usually perfunctory condolences for the families of the victims. And then we just step over the bodies until the next shooting happens. And this goes on ad infinitum.
6
It may be hard for a foreigner to understand how important gun ownership is to law-abiding Americans. It is one of the peculiarities of this country. It is sort of like the Electoral College, something that is hard to explain, something many people would like to do without but something that will be with us forever. We have to hope that the mass shooting epidemic is like the crack epidemic, that it will just fade in time
Healthcare and gun control are obviously the two main issues the new democratic chamber should work on. Both are related, to say the least. The problem is just that nothing is about to happen, probably even after the next mass gun killing. Time for Democrats to have a real platform, far more urgent than giving birth and visibility to new staff, even if that should go together.
1
According to the story this guy had a legally registered gun that was appropriate for self-defense (some might quibble about the extended magazine), and was deemed by mental health professionals to be not a danger to himself or others. Depending on when he acquired the gun he may not have shown up on any background check. So it's doubtful whether any form of "gun control" (whatever that means) would have been effective in this case. Even a total ban (politically a non-starter) would allow some to slip through the cracks. While we need common sense measures like stricter background checks, waiting periods, and no loopholes such as at gun shows, we also need to look at other issues, like mental health and specifically veterans' mental health care, that may contribute to this being a uniquely American problem.
2
@DL: But the guy equipped an ordinary gun with a high-capacity magazine. That turns his "harmless" handgun into a weapon of mass destruction. Nobody outside of the military should be able to get their hands on high-capacity magazines. But the NRA opposes any legislation against them, and politicians are scared of the NRA -- an organization of short-sighted, war-and-weapons-mongering profiteers.
Who sold the gun? Who sold the bullets? Who financed the companies making money off this carnage? Which politicians took money from them?
There is an industrial complex around these weapons. Investigate it and report on it.
3
A man in Melbourne, Australia on Friday tried to kill as many people as he could with a knife. He succeeded in injuring three and killing only one before he was shot by police (he later died). One heroic bystander used a shopping trolley to harry and thwart him.
What an extraordinary contrast. Two men, whose actions were separated in time by just a day. But in culture, by a vast distance. Both were limited by the weapons available to them. Both hoped to kill as many people as possible. Can you imagine using a shopping trolley to try and stop a mass murderer armed with semi automatics and pistols?
I've often wondered why Americans allow their rights to be so 'infringed' when it comes to the latest in killing equipment. Surely, in the 21st C, shoulder launched Surface to Air missiles and thermo nuclear weapons should be essential kit for local 'well regulated' militias and community groups?
6
And today in Melbourne, Australia, our brave police officers who were nearby, not hiding in the station, did not rush in dressed in full military combat gear, automatic weapons blazing, pumping the assailant full of holes.
No. They tried everything to AVOID pulling out a gun before they had no choice and ONE officer fired ONE shot. Google it and spot the difference.
19
On the way to work this morning, on the radio is a mourning mother crying and said, " My son survived Las Vegas massacre, and now he is one of the victims in this bar. I don't want Thought and Prayer. I want gun control ".
Gun Violence Archive reported 307 mass shootings since January of this year. This occurs almost exactly one mass shooting a day. Einstein once said, " It is insanity if one does the same thing over and over again and expects a different result ".
If the society wants a different result or outcome, doing the same thing or nothing will certainly not lead us there.
2
I was in Israel during the Intafada, which was a kind of war, where too many innocents died or were maimed. Today's America reminds me of that time. There are just too many guns and guns that are too powerful and capable of carrying too many bullets. Too many , too powerful. And polls show that the American people by a large majority want to limit the ease of getting a gun and cutting the capacity and power of guns. But there is the NRA, imposing minority will on the majority. Something wrong with our democracy where a minority can demand from the majority that many of their children will be shot to death.
4
In Britain, this wasn't even breaking news. It seems to happen every day in America. Over here, people shake their heads and get on with their lives without understanding why America chooses not to change the laws that result in so many avoidable deaths. Why would anyone choose to live like that? Why is it so hard to see that guns make you the opposite of safe? It is bizarre and tragic. We hope you heal. And we hope that, someday, you learn.
5
I don't want to live in this crazy country anymore. But what's the alternative?
3
@Glassyeyed
The only alternative we have is to vote the Republicans out of power.
4
@Glassyeyed The alternative is: leave the USA and, as Barry Crimmens noted, become a victim of American foreign policy.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
One of the problems with mass shootings is that we have no way to feel better when they occur. Trump and many other politicians are in the thrall of the NRA, who are all benefitting from the violent fantasy of the "well-regulated militia". They dont even pretend to try and fix this. But we need someone in power to at least appear to care. We really do have a lot of problems in this country: a war without end, homelessness, the widening gap between the ultra- rich and everyone else....the list goes on. Trump is a depressing and terrible leader. We are in a bit of an identity crisis as a country. Americans are sad and struggling to make sense of this negative new world we find ourselves in. It is not all Trump, but he doesn't help, at all.
It is as if Trump is fomenting, "shoot 'em up" at his rallies. When you spread hate and fear, you get angry, suicidal shooters who have lived with anomie and are unable to overcome it. What on earth have you unleashed, Mr. Trump?
The responsibility is with his office to do something about our horrific public policy. The second amendment was written centuries ago. It is time to modernize. THAT would make America great again.
2
I would LOVE to see the New York Times, Washington Post and other major newspapers across the country publish daily an ongoing tally of the number of deaths/year in our country due to guns. This would help keep the tragic loss of these innocent lives at the forefront of our attention rather than being pushed aside by the next news cycle.
Let the world see how dangerous and irresponsible our country is by refusing to enact common sense gun laws.
Let the world see how corrupted and immoral our leaders are who honor the NRA more than the safety of our lives
Let other countries start issuing travel warnings to United States due to gun violence.
Pathetic.
6
@SanPride Hear, hear! This was mass shooting #307 this year alone. The national media only covers these shootings when they break a record. It's like sports coverage now.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
@SanPride The New York Times did exactly that a few years ago - tallied daily gun deaths for a period of time. It did nothing to move the conversation. It sure made me sad, though.
1
Publish the tally daily from the whole country.
3
Apparently, Matteo Salvini, the most powerful figure in Italy’s populist government, he wants this same sort of world for Italy.
There are no words for the heartbreak I feel for the people in this article and Americans as a whole.
The morning after the election, I emailed my re-elected senator, Sherrod Brown, and begged him to work hard for gun control. I know he's up against a lot, but Americans can no longer live hostage to the NRA and a willful misinterpretation of our Constitution.
I live in fear every day that my child will die at the hands of one of these insane men because she's Jewish, because she's a female, or simply because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Our society is broken. Gun control is the first step to make us whole.
2
But Americans are afraid of poor desperate families seeking escape from violence.
3
Since firemen are now firefighters and policemen are now police officers, despite being overwhelmingly male professions, can we maintain consistency and stop calling this shooter a "gunman"? Yes shooters are nearly always male, but since we're in the business of disguising reality, let's call him simply a "gunner".
2
After all these tragedies this is what you come up with? Mass shootings can be prevented with gun control.
3
Name me a woman who’s walked into a club, or a church, or a school, or a health clinic, and systematically opened fire like this.
In other words, no. It would be a lie.
It’s also a lie to pretend that these crimes aren’t committed specifically by young men, by white men. It’s also a lie to pretend that almost all of them have a florid political grudge—a far-right grudge, in fact.
And it is most definitely a lie to pretend that we can’t pretty much see these guys coming, or do anything about it.
3
If women were mass shooters, you'd see some gun control laws passed right quick.
6
We can hold responsible the Congress and state legislators who are given huge sums of money by the NRA for this horrific mess we're in with these constant tragedies. This started along time ago with the campaign contributions to our legislators. It was an insidious advance by the NRA aided by many lobbyists. There are more lobbyists in D.C. than congresspeople.
If you have taken money from the NRA and in a position of power you should be ashamed.
.
12
Mass shootings by a lone gunman seeking notoriety are now an epidemic in our country. The press needs to show more restraint and help dampen the likelihood of these killings.
Currently, after each massacre the press finds out who the killer was, investigates his background and reports extensive information that has the effect of encouraging other nuts who want such attention.
The press should not report the name or any information about such killers . Such reporting only serves voyeurism for the purpose of pumping ratings and ad revenues. It helps ensure more killings. It needs to stop.
3
Anderson Cooper has a policy of not naming or showing photos of these shooters on his show, but focusing instead on the victims only. I think he’s the only one who does this.
3
It is time for Congress to protect Americans,
who has the spine to stand up against gun manufacturers of military grade clips and guns?
8
OK Ms. Orfanos, what gun law should be passed that will prevent the next mentally deranged criminal from LEGALLY purchasing a weapon and doing the exact same thing?
Total repeal of the Second Amendment. Since people like you refuse to even acknowledge that guns need to be more tightly controlled, it’s time to take them away.
19
1. define all guns capable of killing 10 or more people per minute (KPM, kills per minute) as military weapons
2. ban military weapons in civilian hands
3
Ban military style assault weapons.
2
As soon aas the new Democratic House majority is sworn in they should pass a very strict gun control Bill and dare the Senate not to pass it.
20
@CTMD Don't think the NRA isn't greasing the wheels of Democrats they think they can own.
2
It's such a huge - and tragic - coincidence that the meeting place of mass shooting survivors would be targeted for another one. Is there any chance the shooter for some reason picked the place because of it?
4
one American stuck on a mountain? thousands spent on rescue.
4 soldiers killed in Niger? big news story and investigation.
Kids stuck in a cave? the whole world holds its breath.
Another mass shooting of innocent people living their lives? Meh.
20
Guns don’t kill people. It’s the person behind the gun that makes the choice to pull the trigger. Repealing the 2nd ammendment is an emotional driven reaction. Just ban guns for the common people, but the military will still have them. I doubt that would have prevented this tragedy - the shooter was a vet and had a gun legally. I think the real issue is the utter failings of the mental health system to actually help people. Almost all the mass shooters were on some kind of psych drug which is never mentioned in the media. Was this shooter on psych meds? If we are going to ban anything, it should be the psych meds that can cause suicidal thoughts.Does anyone realize that this call to “ban guns” is standard playbook - get the people to demand it. Don’t be played by the psy ops going on here. The real issue is the mental health system is a farce.
@AuthenticEgo As a member of the mental health profession, I completely agree that our medications and treatments are imperfect and, in may cases, actually ineffective. My colleagues and I are also pathetic at predicting the future. So, yeah, guns don't shoot themselves, but nothing that exists today is going to protect you from the mentally ill person with guns other than getting rid of guns. Mental illness is not going away soon. I am not going to save you.
4
Yup, that’s authentic ego, all righty.
1
Explain why mass shootings disappeared Vin Australia after they banned assault weapons. If you think it had nothing to do with gun control, perhaps you'd argue that it's their national health care plan.
ok Republicans, your choice: gun control or health care for all.
5
I all makes me want to cry.
3
I've don't know how many times I heard the idiotic gun lovers' argument: Guns don't kill, people do. Face the families of victims of the gun culture and make that same argument to them, face to face. Go on, I dare you. See what satisfaction that argument provides them.
Guns serve only one purpose: to kill. So spare me your arguments about knives and cars killing as well. Those are only arguments to do something about knives and cars, not arguments against the banning of guns.
22
After each mass shooting every news media outlet will say in one form or another, “Police were searching for a motive.” For days afterwards there will be follow-up coverage still seeking the motive of the killer and then finally, the history of the killer’s life and all the clues when analyzed in total create the likely scenario for the killer’s motive.
Forget the motive- it doesn’t matter. What is crucial is finding the common denominator that connects all these senseless mass killings and what to do about it- and we all know the answer: Guns; easy access to guns. That’s what the news coverage needs to focus on. How can a society in the wake of all this carnage allow the 2nd amendment to stand?
10
I hope the NRA and the arms dealers are proud of themselves. Anything for a buck, right????????????????
7
California has the strictest gun control laws in the country and these horrific acts still happen there all the time. Something definitely needs to be done to fix this, but gun control is not the only answer. Mental health needs to be discussed more openly and destigmatized. If we address mental health head on and get help for those who need it, we're significantly more likely to prevent these things from happening.
2
At least one early press report about this shooting stated that there were as many as six off-duty law enforcement officers in this bar when the shooting began. If this is true (can anyone confirm or refute this?), then the next question should be whether any of the six was armed, and then, if so, what action did any of the armed off-duty law enforcement officers take after the shooting began? This speaks directly to the role of of armed personnel in schools and elsewhere to stop such shootings.
And if there were off-duty law enforcement officers in the bar and none were armed, I'd ask why they were not armed. If anybody in our society should be armed, it should be law enforcement personnel, whether on duty or not. I hope we'll learn more about this as the facts of the case are spelled out in further detail.
1
Even police deserve time off from their stressful jobs. There should not be the expectation that they are always on duty. Doctors don’t carry “ doctors bags” and emergency equipment with them everywhere they go. Firefighters don’t carry around extinguishers. The President doesn’t........do anything at all.
8
The guards were shot first. A brave soul tried to take down the shooter, but he was quickly shot.
1
“I’m hearing a lot of: 'Why is this our new norm? Why is this our new norm? It shouldn’t be. At all.'” ----- and nary a peep out of donald trump; rather, in the wake of the blue wave election, he's doubling & tripling down on fear-mongering americans into believing people of the "caravan" represent a mortal danger to the country and appointing lackeys just as venal as he is to serve & protect him and his family from the muller investigation. some "president" he is.
6
America's population of the mentally ill hovers around 50%. Our leadership is a consequence of that. Gun stores on every block. You do the math.
Failed state.
5
You did this to yourself, America, and it is the most painful of truths. When will the pain become so unbearable that you’ll take your hand out of the fire that you stoked and let grow? The rest of the world can only watch. What else is there to be done? How many tears can we cry on your behalf before they run dry?
I was once determined to complete my post graduate studies in RISD, but no more. I will head to a country that prioritises human life over profit and “sport”.
The only silver lining is this – if you could start the fire, you can put it out.
8
It looks like that caravan from Central America left violent countries to come to another violent country. At least they didn't experience racism in their home country.
Don't be surprised if other countries start announcing travel bans and warnings for the USA due to frequent massacres.
4
Twofold issue:
1) upset people with nowhere to turn
2) dangerous weapons easily available
Twofold solution:
1) destigmatization of PTSD and dissemination of psychological tools for all citizens to use to help their fellow man
2) fewer and less widely available dangerous weapons
6
How are any of the shooters here -- in Pittsburg, in Las Vegas, in Charleston, in Parkland, on back through Sandy Hook and beyond -- how were any of those shooters part of a "well-regulated Militia"?
11
The NRA has proposed a plan* where a protective order can be obtained against someone, after a hearing, if there is suspicion of mental illness, etc.
This makes sense since many times these shooters have been brought to the attention of authorities. (The Parkland shooter was on record as having said he wanted to be a "school shooter" and the FBI had even been notified.)
Next step would be to hold authorities responsible for not acting when they've received such notice or are in a position to act, as the military was in this case.
************
*https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/nra-gun-violence-restraining-order-support-good-move/
1
I bet this precious order doesn’t take their guns, though, right? Especially since the precious NRA has gone to court to defend the rights of the insane to carry boomsticks, and done so again and again.
1
I wonder if it would be a good idea to send the SCOTUS justices who joined Scalia in upholding the “individual right” to own guns under the Second Amendment in the 2008 Heller decision a folio of news clippings of all of the gun shootings and fatalities that occurred since that opinion came down.
I’m sure they read the news. I hope they are still happy with their decision when they see headlines like this. (Sarcasm)
2
Twelve more killed by gunfire in a country that bans chocolate Kinder Surprise eggs; I weep for you, America.
19
Statistically this makes sense !
With so many shootings in America this double horror was bound to happen.
Anyone who voted for a politician who took NRA money has lots his or her moral compass.
1
There is a new breed of "veterans"; I guess they also should be recognized in a higher category than the others; after all, they were in war with no guns.
1
It is time the citizens and government at all levels in the state of California to take action the ensure that something like this will never again happen in our state. The US Senate is complicit, the US Supreme Court is useless. We need to pass and enforce effective gun control at the state and local level. This will necessarily involve eliminating the promiscuous sale of guns anywhere in the state. It will require many current holders of these weapons to turn them over to responsible authorities. It will require government agencies in the State of California to resist or ignore Federal laws that prevent reasonable limits on possession and use of deadly weapons. I'm sorry, but that now seems to be the only way to make it safe for us, for our children, for residents and visitors to out state. It will take years, but it has to happen.
5
No, I don't want to disarm all Americans, yes, I do favor small changes that are acceptable to most Americans. We need to get over this gun fetish.
Mostly though, much as I am thankful for every person who survived this most recent gun violence, people saying that God, or someone was watching over them, can only be saying that this was not true for those who didn't survive, that they were not being "watched over." While meaning no pain to anyone, I'd think it must do just that to the loved ones of those who died.
2
The average citizen does not need a gun of any kind. They don’t need to hunt, that’s a leisure activity. Same with the shooting range. Guns should be bought back, immediately made illegal and taken off the market completely. Only trained officers who need a gun to ensure the safety of others in their work should have them, and they should be kept under lock and key. Someone’s wish to hunt or to shoot for fun does not supersede the citizen’s right to go to school, to a concert, to a bar without being killed. Enough.
12
To what degree was Ian Long yet another of the young men brutalized by modern military service? A "clear motive" might be one none of us wants to confront. These young men come home damaged for life, the most heartbreaking dimension in the wars this country can't seem to live without.
4
I'm a middle aged woman and last night I had a nightmare about trying to hide from a mass shooter. If this is seeping into my adult psyche, what is it doing to the minds of our developing children?
SM from Brooklyn is correct, when Congress didn't act on gun legislation after Sandy Hook, any hope of controlling gun madness and 2nd Amendment worship disappeared. Clearly we collectively don't care about our young people...
And don't forget that NRA mantra, what stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Sheriff Helus was that good guy and he paid the full price.
12
I thought I heard one survivor say that they felt secure at the Borderline because there was lots of security. Is this true? Can we finally put the concept behind us that a security guy with a gun can stop this sort of thing from happening?
9
Sadly, we are getting "conditioned" just like the wildlife who get used to "blinds". We are becoming blind as being the humans animals we are, we adjust to things that look safe most of the time. Guns hide in plain sight, just standing there invisible until ….. when we least expect it.
4
Exactly what is your "common sense gun control" that is going to change anything? California already has lots of gun laws.
There are so many guns out there that if we banned them completely then law abiding people will definitely not have a chance to defend themselves.
A man with a gun tried to take down the shooter. He was killed. Ban military style assault weapons.
1
@Zejee I'm all for gun control but this was a mentally unstable vet with PTSD who purchased a handgun, not a military style assault weapon, legally. As much as I don't want to agree with them, the Republicans in charge, this is a Mental Health Issue. That being said those in charge are going to do nothing to make sure the mentally ill or those suffering from PTSD get the help they need.
One of the talking point and the argument have been that “if only there were a good guy with the gun.”
My question is, in that dark and smoky chaotic place where people were running around in every direction screaming in panic looking for a cover or escape. There happened to be a good guy tried his best to aim at the person he believed to be a gunman and hit the target, it was self defense and he was a HERO. Or, instead, the bullets hit a couple people that running past it and unfortunately dead, would the good guy became a hero or MURDERER?
I just couldn’t imagine the scenario where there were 10 good guys with the guns in the near dark night club, at the concert or bar packed with patrons and loud music. Each trying their best to look for the bad guy once heard a gun shot only to realize there were 11 guys holding their gun out. In a split second between life and dead you either shoot them first or just wait to be shot. It’s your call. You can imagine the rest.....
I have no hope for as long as nearly half of the country still vote this way.
7
There is nothing so lethal as a gun – except the Americans who think that the right to bear arms is:
1) free from needing serious amendment, even though the guns today are far more deadly than civil war-era firepower; even though its intended use was for a “well regulated militia”, not regular people
2) far, far more important than the life of the everyday, ordinary civilian.
4
Tomorrow is another day. And if statistics are any guide, we are only a few days from another mass shooting.
If this isn't your single voter issue, why isn't it? Why are gun rights more important than rights to live without the fear of being hunted by a maniac in any kind of public space?
As a dual Canadian-American citizen who lives in Japan (where even a single gun crime would be on the news for weeks), I kind of wonder how many more tens or hundreds of thousands will die in the US before it matters?
Why is life not valued in the US? Why is political posturing more important than 10,000+ lives a year? Why do Americans not care enough about American children getting killed in school? Killed at concerts? Killed at bars? Killed in colleges? Killed because they are women? Killed because they are children? Killed because they are Black? Or Jewish? Or like country music?
How many more hundreds of children need to be shot in their school? How many more thousands of college students need to be hunted like animals by a maniac?
How can politicians say "thoughts and prayers" to someone who lost their daughter or son or father or mother and do nothing?
7
Taboo of course to talk about THE major co-factor in most of these mass shootings: membership in the US military.
5
The neighborhood has a legal right to know if a pedophile lives in the area. We need laws mandating that the address of EVERY gun owner and every member of the military be identified to the public so that citizens can protect themselves.
WE HAVE RIGHTS TOO!
6
If I were someone who was pro NRA and a supporter responsible gun ownership I would WANT there to be measures put in place that help keep weapons out of the hands of those who mean to kill. 2nd amendment supporters always retort that these killers do not represent all gun owners and they shouldn't be lumped in together. I agree, so seperate YOURSELF. Stand up for common sense laws that will protect your rights or you will be seen as siding with mass shooters. If I had a hobby that others used to kill a lot of people, I would want it protected by allowing only law abiding people to partake.
1
Nobody—nobody—needs a military style assault weapon. Unless he is planning a massacre.
Until sufficient of your citizens impress upon your legislators that they choose the preservation of life over a wilfully misinterpreted 18th century ideology, this sorry and tragic spectacle is doomed to repeat forever. Literally.
If Sandy Hook told me anything, it told me that your country is in thrall, not only to gun lobbyists and vested interests, but also to a sense of fatalism that absolves those charged to effect change for the better good, from their failure to effect that necessary change.
If the slaughter of innocents on that day was not enough to make those mentioned, see the abomination of their skewed priorities, you are truly lost, and sadly, to remain so, as evidenced by the never ending cycle of mass murder that persists.
6
Americans love their guns far more than they love their children.
1
The reality is very clear. Even a ban on assault weapons is going to have negligible effect. If we want an end to this insane weekly carnage, we have to do what every rational society on earth has done. We have to ban guns. Provide a grace period for people to turn them in, after which, possession carries a mandatory 10 year sentence.
It may take 15-20 years to fully purge the country of this disease, but it's very do-able in principle. In practice, it's politically impossible. As with so many aspects of America, it's a problem that has no solution—a catastrophe rooted in the terminal insanity of the American people.
6
There are no safe places in America. The only way to change this is to never accept these heinous acts as the "new normal," and push Congress for gun safety legislation. Fortunately, Election Day provided a cleanse of many NRA supporters in Congress. They have my prayers and thoughts, and I wonder how they look themselves in the mirror each day.
1
We live in a lawless country with an ineffective government. Democratics and Republicans alike. Lets not fool ourselves, we are no longer the greatest country. We lack compassion for others, no tolerance for different points of view and an unwillingness to compromise. Mass shootings are just the tip of the iceberg when hate is the theme of many of our polticians and President. Just wearing a red hat that says “America Is Great” does not make it so! I am 65 years old and have lived in the United States all my life. For the first time I am seriously thinking of leaving America. There are better (safer) countries to live in. A dark hateful cloud hangs over us and a melancholy has overwhelmed our land. God save America.
6
Just because other countries have figured out how to stop the weekly gun carnage doesn't mean America can figure it out.
5
That Country music fans were targets in two massacres is very serious and may be indicative of an underlying cultural following of the gunmen. Were the two gunmen in both California and Las Vegas aware of similar or identical media that promoted hatred of country like people?
PLEASE stop naming the shooter in coverage of mass shootings. Even if this particular shooter was not motivated by notoriety, many shooters are. We do not need to know the shooter's name to get the full story on what happened.
1
Yeah.....
Because EVERYONE knows that, as a rule, mass shooters ALWAYS take the weekend off!
Deaths per 100,000 by gunfire in 2016
US 11.96
France 2.83
England 0.23
Spain 0.62
Rullia 2.16
Italy 1.31
Those who oppose gun-control are helping commit murder.
For 2016.
19
"Investigators said there was no clear motive. "
Why are media people so focused on motives behind the killings in mass shootings?
It is infuriating!! The killers' motives mean nothing to the victims and their families.
Talk about the instruments that enable mass killings: the ubiquity of guns, high capacity magazines, bumper stocks, semi-automatic weapons--and what actions, laws, and regulations can be performed to protect society and prevent mass killings in the future!
17
@Michael Richter The first question people ask after such a tragedy is "why?" That's a perfectly sensible question. Finding the answer may help prevent some of these catastrophes in the future. Typically, we're looking at Republican ex-military with all the hatred and insanity that tends to imply.
5
@Michael Richter
People focus on the motives to try and understand why we have these mass murders to hopefully find a reason that we can comprehend and do something to prevent the next mass murder. I am in favor of gun control, but with over 300 million guns already in the system gun control would not have prevented this dreadful tragedy.
Today in Melbourne, Australia a crazed madman went on a rampage and killed one person. In the Borderline Bar and Grill a crazed madman went on a rampage and killed 12... making America great, are we?
11
Like the schools, Trump will tell you there should have been people carrying guns in the crowd or at the door. Would that make you feel safer? Not me. I don't know these people either. This is just asking for more trouble.
9
The man shot the security guard at the entrance before going into the bar, so having a guard there wasn't enough of a deterrent.
5
@Paul Smith thank you for pointing that out. That is a IMPORTANT fact. honestly. how can a security guard be a deterrent unless he shoots everyone who walks in the place before they shoot first?
2
A man with a gun tried to take down the shooter. He was killed.
Obviously, any event larger than 50 people is off limits. If you won't be near an exit sign, you shouldn't go. That is what I am going to teach my children. Ooops! Schools get shot up too. I guess they shouldn't go to school either.
5
Good point!
I’m planning to dig out grandpa’s old backyard fallout shelter plans and start digging this weekend.
Goodbye Whole Foods...hello canned string beans.
THAT should take care of the problem!
Just like a car, mandatory training, registration and insurance. High insurance premiums for assault rifle and semiautomatic weapons and no clips more than 5 rounds.
11
I visited the USA two years ago with friends (we're not American.) I was uneasy most of the time I was there. Just jittery and ill at ease. We were glad to leave. I won't return for a long while. Too much rage, hatred, divisiveness, violence, resentment. Coming to the USA from Europe, the enormous gap between rich and poor that one sees in the streets is particularly striking. So many beggars and homeless people. I'm not saying that that doesn't exist in Europe and elsewhere, because it does. But in the US it's bad. The bottom line? Travelling to the USA is no longer pleasurable. We go elsewhere now.
233
@Juliet
Funny you say that as I offered to take my wife to Europe for our 30th wedding anniversary and she felt the same way about Italy and France that you do about the US.
It's all a matter of perspective. The USA is a country of over 320 million people and I feel comfortable travelling anywhere in this country without a gun.
10
@Juliet I visited Europe (England, France, The Netherlands) for the first time (from the USA) a few months ago. I was struck by how those working in the service industry appeared friendlier, healthier, and so much more well kept than their USA counterparts. I imagined access to healthcare and a living wage contributed to this observation.
37
@Juliet Will you come back after Trump makes America great again?
6
Once again, a legally-obtained gun was used to kill innocents. The gun owners wail about their rights, and how their guns will only be taken from their cold, dead hands.
Twelve sets of cold, dead hands will never hold anything again because of one madman with a legal gun. Thoughts and prayers are not enough: the end of legal gun ownership is the only solution.
It’s time to repeal the Second Amendment. Since the NRA and gun owners refuse to go along with any kind of restriction in gun ownership, they have forfeited their right to own guns.
Repeal. Now.
19
I am in favor of gun control, although in this case I don't believe it would have helped. This ex marine was determined to kill people and I believe would have found a gun some way.
What bothers me is that he was an ex marine trained to kill by our government and when he finished his time was basically returned to civilian life without any type of debriefing or physiological evaluation. He obviously was troubled if his mother was concerned about what he could potentially do. I know the vast majority of ex military adapt very well to civilian life but some do not.
I know from personal experience. I was in the service during the Viet Nam war and when I was released from duty I had a difficult time adjusting back to civilian life. I received no help from the military, just my discharge papers. I wasn't violent and return to college to finish my degree, but others weren't so fortunate.
I think our government owes it to all the men and women that serve and the civilian population they will join to ensure that someone leaving the service will not be a threat to themselves or society.
15
Would it really be so difficult to require that all military veterans returning home after serving in a military war zone be placed in a facility that is set up as a comfortable home styled environment and provided the necessary assistance with dealing with the emotional distress that is so common in wartime veterans and acquire the skills to resume a regular civilian life? A place where they can be counseled for at least a week to adequately determine whether they suffer from PTSD or any other form of mental or physical hardship.
Just another example of how our government fails us at every level. Even those men and women who put their lives on the line and are forced to kill an enemy they don’t know never receive the assistance they may need to resume a normal life.
I feel so sorry for all the innocent people who lost their lives or were injured, both physically and emotionally, in a senseless attack, and I also feel so sorry for the man that committed this terrible act when he obviously needed serious help and it was not there for him. When ones mind is engulfed in the mental torture of depression and other debilitating illnesses seeking help is not something many people think about.
Without the federal and state government providing the funding for mental healthcare services and without realistic gun control measures, be aware that these tragedies will continue to occur at the rapidly increasing pace they are nowadays. This will not end...only get worse.
9
Dave P. - AGREE. If lawmakers stopped hemorrhaging money needlessly we could use our tax dollars where it’s really needed. The hideous waste of money for the child prisons comes to mind*. I read it’s going to cost 3-600 million dollars to put troops at the border for the “caravan”. Don’t tell us we don’t have the money. STOP WASTING.
*CBS -In May, the agency issued requests for bids for five projects that could total more than $500 million for beds, foster and therapeutic care, and "secure care," which means employing guards. More contracts are expected to come up for bids in October.
1
@Dave P. Or to put it plainly, the people we pay TRILLIONS to protect the United States are actually a huge threat to our society. We need to disband the military and put the money to use building instead of destroying. The military is an insane anachronism. It has no place and only endangers everyone, foreign and domestic.
3
@Dave P. How about stopping the wars first?
3
Until our Republican politcal leaders and the leaders of the gun lobby are forced to be the first responders to mass shootings, we will have no solution to mass shootings.
Prove me wrong, please.
MB
5
We have Republican law makers who survived such an event, and yet have not changed their position. They are bought and owned by the NRA. Until that changes - Citizens United is overturned- nothing will change.
3
@Nancy
Good point, Nancy.
Unfortunately...
MB
after 911, which i watched happen from the flatiron district, i worried that bombs would turn up in cafes on a daily random basis, as in many parts of the world.
but this is so much worse
if foreigners were doing this to us we would declare war against their countries
but it is the NRA that is doing it
18
You know what?? The lobbyists for the NRA are reponsible for all of these killings! What are they afraid of? Responsible gun owners have nothing to fear...Please do what you can to prevent these terrible tragedies! I worry, not about my own grandsons, but the thousands of others who suffer from these horrible incidents! I am sure the Founding Fathers did not realize that the consequences of the Second Amendment could allow this: It was for PROTECTION: not mass killings of innocent people, with weapons that hadn't even been invented then.
8
5 off duty off. were in the club. Were they armed? Did they re-act? NRA said many times a good guy with a gun is the answer?????
7
@Bill
That's an awfully good question Bill. What if some of the 12 victims were victims of friendly fire? I never thought of that. Great thinkin' Billy Boy!
Once more, the American ritual of human sacrifice by firearm.
Why cannot the American people act rationally to protect themselves from this blood rite?
6
@rj1776
The rational thing is to not let mentally ill people purchase or own firearms. Even if they show just a speck of mental problems. No one's life is worth another person's supposed right to own a gun.
The rational thing is to ban military style assault weapons.
2
One more time: Thoughts & prayers, the price of freedom, good guy with a gun...
. It will never end.
7
FABRICE IN FRANCE wrote what I think as another American abroad. My Irish wife and I have four grown children, twin daughters and two sons. Every time I learn of the frequent mass shootings or read about sexual abuse in the U.S. I thank Jupiter. It appears that the scores of “authorities” who repeatedly carry on with PRAYERS should address them to the “president” and his Republican minions in the thrall of the NRA
10
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
Let us develop the 2nd amendment. Be the elected sheriff the head and keeper of the munition and let him decide the line of command in agreement with the members of the militia. Let the sheriff schedule the training and oversight of the militia. Let the sheriff and members regulate the conduct of members.
4
If Republicans owned by the NRA have any thoughts and prayers left, I'm sure the solace they offer is reimbursed in campaign contributions also known as blood money.
14
Intent is more dangerous than the weapon. My heart cries for this senseless, selfish, cowardly loss of 12 loved ones. I am so sad there is such utter disrespect for life in our civilization. The United States is better than this. This assassin of innocents is a dishonor to our military and a disgrace to our nation. No matter how bad you think life is, there are people who care about you, and want to help you make one step towards something better than hopelessness. You will live in a better future when you seek it.
4
Enough already. It is time to ban the guns, to put a stop to the NRA. Until that happens everyone in this county is at risk of being gunned down, anywhere, anytime.
12
when in god's name are we going to repeal the outdated 2nd amendment?
12
@Michael
When Charlton Heston's cold dead hands freeze over.
Here in Oklahoma, I know a lot of people who own guns. They say they need them for protection. Almost all the people who tell me they need guns are greatly overweight, eat a diet of junk food, drive everywhere even if it's only a block away, never exercise, and most of them smoke. It's their lifestyle that is killing them, yet they think they have to have guns to stay alive.
22
So many of these young people were shot at in the Vegas concert too. While heartbreaking, it's also a national disgrace.
4
1) a brave, “good guy with a gun” put his life on the line to save others and was killed instantly
2) why is a good guy placed in this position? This does not happen in any other (?) civilized country
3) if you vote for any Republicans, admit it to yourself: you believe that this ongoing carnage and destruction of families and born children is a fair price to pay for.......(you fill in the blank; I can’t even imagine what to say here)
12
“If only someone had had a gun and could have stopped him.”
Oh, wait, Donald. Someone did have a gun and bravely tried to stop him.
Next suggestion.
14
I agree with Dodurgali! It is time that the people of this country fully exercised our voices and that Congress heard us! The NRA has pots of money that they give to politicians who will take it to enhance their power and their pocketbooks. It is time that the politicians had the political courage to say NO! No more NRA power in Congress. The people want gun control! No more loopholes, easy availability of guns of all kinds and NO MORE guns of mass destruction. Game hunters are NOT the issue. People assassins are!
7
Part of me definitely wants to retaliate for crimes like this. There's no way to not be enraged when someone kills innocent people for no reason.
The problem with that approach is that the more retaliation and rage there is, the more justifiable the killers' dark view of the universe and nihilistic murders become.
Instead, we need to preserve and restore the things that made the victims' lives worth NOT ending. That means preserving the bright hopes of youth, the stable dignity of age, the joy of companionship, and the belief in a better society.
Those are the shields that protect us the best. But more limitations on guns in public gathering places, and increased funding for veterans' health care would certainly help too.
2
Apropos of the news report( The New York Times,dt. Nov.8 2018),the California's inexorable shooting last Wednesday killing 12 innocent people who were at the Music Bar, bears testimony to say as to what extent the U.S.gun culture has spread its tentacles, which is barbaric, uncouth and inhuman. The culprits ought to be brought to justice sans any inordinate delay and the punitive measures that are going to be handed to the bloody shooters should serve as a deterrent for any future culprits. There has to be a ban, if not total blanket ban, for selling the gun in the open markets and raising the age limit to own a gun would perhaps contain such bloody shooting to some extent. Hope the Trump's government would prioritize it, inter alia, and see to it that justice is rendered sooner than later.
E.S.Chandrasekaran, Mogappir West
Chennai-600037
3
These shootings aren't becoming more shocking, merely more familiar. Every time I read about another shooting rampage, my heart breaks a little more for the families and friends of the victims.
5
Pretty much all of the mass shootings since Columbine in 1999 have been at places where people go to "pursue happiness," (prayer, music, learn). The legal battle for gun control is ineffective because when you argue with someone with a gun, you die. Constitutional bickering over the Second Amendment has been suicidal for those who argue for gun control. The governed has become the single most dangerous force against the Free State that the Second Amendment was written to protect. Each time there is a mass shooting we forget that the victims, the ones who are changed by such acts, aren't only the dead, the wounded, and the mourning. We are all changed by these acts. Each person has less and less freedom and spontaneity, less of a right that our Creator endowed us with for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. (Endowed means for keeps, commanded for us to acknowledge, accept, and use.)
Our Civil Rights, as the family and culture of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are under attack and we need to defend ourselves or we risk losing everything we have believed in, as Americans, in the flash of a gun. Each of us needs to sue the NRA and the Gun Lobbies on the grounds that their specific product has resulted in diminished civil liberties. We need to defend our country and ourselves from their particular product or give back what the Creator has mandated us to live by.
11
Guns are fine for hunting and target shooting, but the perspective that carrying a gun makes one more safe is not accurate. We read about these mass shootings all the time, yet with all the “good guy with a guy” statements from NRA-types, how many mass murderers have been stopped by a civilian with a gun? How many people carry concealed and have had to draw and fire their gun? How many, honestly, would react calmly and accurately?
Concealed carry is the comfort food of safety. I feel better carrying, therefore I carry.
We have a problem in the US with these mass executions. Either health care has to be adjusted to weed out gun owners who are mentally unstable, or gun laws need to be revised to reflect our lack of responsibility as a nation. The latest shooting involved a .45 handgun, not an “assault” rifle. This type of handgun is fairly common, easy to conceal and in a crowded venue, very deadly.
We have to stop chalking up these mass murders as the cost of 2nd Amendment freedom. It’s not a viable argument anymore.
4
Those who survive the shootings always say that they didn't think it would happen to them so I think we all have to imagine that it could happen to us. So the next time you head out to work or church, movies or the mall, a fast-food restaurant or a nightclub, a concert or a dance hall, imagine that you could never come home. Maybe your body will be riddled with bullets leaving you unrecognizable. Maybe that will give us all the impetus to demand gun control.
7
@JAWS I forgot to add Yoga class to the list! (sadly)
Seems to me it's time for the Department of Homeland Security to get its act together and get us some security from the people who are really endangering us - other Americans.
And, Mr. President,
All your talk about banning Muslims, putting troops on the border and so on, is all just political sleight of hand. When we leave our houses Americans know the real threat, members of the GOP who are afraid of the NRA.
5
Has the NYT or will the NYT do a deep dive into the legislative history that allowed automatic, semi-automatic weapons, extended magazines and the like into the hands of civilians? Expose the process and those responsible. Trace it forward to those who continue to resist limiting these weapons. Name names.
5
Elsewhere in this newspaper is an article explaining California's "strict" gun laws. I'm sure the NRA will turn this data upside down to claim that gun control is not the answer. Their answer to the problem? More guns, of course. But with 270 million guns in circulation already, to claim that we need more is absolutely irrational. Unless you're more interested in commerce than in people's lives.
3
Let’s do some marh. There are 350 million people in United States. There is approximately 350 million fire arms. More and more people are dying of gun violence before our eyes.
I’m not against the 2nd Amendment, but folks, something has give.
There is no solution. America is condamned to live with these killing rages for ever. A war or an uprising might have an end, these gratuitous serial murders not. Once you accept the availability of millions of deadly weapons all over the country, there is no way back. Any disappointed frustrated individual can kill anybody anywhere, destroy any happy family. This has become a national cleansing ritual for sick individuals that will only get worse. Because the number of sick people acting out is on the rise everywhere.
4
Will the President visit Thousand Oaks? He visited Pittsburgh after that awful shooting, or was that political theater in advance of the Midterms? The President must visit Thousand Oaks. The President must visit the site of every future mass shooting in America until his hard orange shell is cracked and he commits to action. The President must be exposed, over and over, to his unwanted presence until he cares enough to act.
4
If dt said he could shoot someone and still maintain popularity, it also means he has no empathy for any fatal tragedy no matter how many times he would visit.
1
A gun and ammo tax to pay armed guards everywhere is a good start.
1
With so much influence over the GOP, the NRA is essentially a fourth branch of government
3
"We just need people with guns to protect these places."
The guy literally shot and killed the security guard, and an on duty sheriff's deputy. This is not the solution, beyond the absolute impracticality of having someone with a gun protect every public building in the US. Good guys with guns get shot and killed too.
Thoughts and prayers aren't doing any of these people good. We need change. Get rid of the guns, or at the very least get them out of the hands of people who definitely shouldn't have them. Make them hard to get. Require a test, training with fire arms including an ethics course, and a good reason to have them. Require that license to be renewed, just like you need for a car. Have a centralized system for purchasing of ammunition and limit it to a sensible number unless you store them at a range or something.
Cars became regulated because people were being killed. Drugs are regulated because people are being killed. Every other developed nation on Earth has nowhere near the level of mass shootings we do. It's a solvable problem if we don't let this stupid rhetoric of amendment rights being encroached on stop us from saving lives.
Repeal the second amendment. It is the only solution.
2
Given the extraordinary number of guns in this country, we are lucky that massacres like this don't happen even more often than they do.
We are a barbaric, uncivilized country. We know what we have to do to stop this carnage and yet we absolutely refuse to do so.
3
Once again a mentally ill person takes a gun and shoots people. We are so concerned about stigmatizing mental illness that we expose ourselves to unwarranted danger. But we have to blame something other than ourselves, so we blame the guns and 2nd Amendment advocates. The standard for restricting the freedom of the mentally ill has to be relaxed. There is a second a rarely discussed second issue. Was this shooter taking prescribed drugs? Were the drugs he was being prescribed making him suicidal and violent? Was he taking the drugs because he was depressed? Was he depressed because he couldn't get a job which paid him enough to support himself and a family? Did he go to war and fight for America and return to discover we only viewed him as being worth $10 an hour or less. Did he go to the bar to killed because he was angry seeing happy rich kids with money and a bright future partying while his life had no future. He fought for America and had nothing and these spoiled rich kids who had sacrificed nothing had everything. I find it amazing that no reporters can find any real personal motivation for these shooters.
America doesn't want to change but simply want's to read the same story over and over again. And they Will as long as there are people like Donald Trump in the world. Just another good reason to not go there and stay away.
1
Reading these comments, you can see why we are where we are. Many people believe the problem isn't too many guns, but not enough guns in the "right" hands. And to those who believe in the "good guy with a gun" theory, identifying who the "wrong" gun owners are is easy. Mental health issues? - no gun! Former felon? No gun! There, problem solved. Except that it's a fantasy that we have some efficient and accurate way to sort out those with the kind of mental health issues that might bring them to this, and then, that we have an interstate system of equal efficiency and accuracy that will keep guns out of their hands. The fact that we have an ocean of guns, readily available to virtually anyone who wants one badly enough, somehow isn't the problem. It's willful blindness to what's right there in front of us that has brought us here. And willful refusal to step up and fix it. Because we love our guns more than we love our neighbor. More than we love our children. More than we love ourselves.
1
The experts - professionals - decided they could not force him to seek treatment? That is the hole in the gun argument. I am not in favor of guns - period - but doubt we as a country will ever stop them. Instead I suggest two strong actions. One. Tighten every possible rule allowing gun ownership - from background checks to type of gun to making the permits renewable yearly. Two. Reinstate mental facilities to help these people and keep them isolated with stronger enforceable rules to force them to comply.
The idea that we are taking away their liberties when taking them off the streets has been proven wrong. We are taking away our liberties.
1
California has all the tough gun laws (thorough background checks, ban on "assault weapons", high cap magazines, red flag laws, registration, etc) that gun control activists say they want. Facts are that as long as gun ownership is viewed as a right, guaranteed by the constitution, these massacres won't stop. And since over 50% of the country won't back repeal of the second amendment, we are doomed.
Canada is looking good right now.
5
When "just five murders" is a good thing, America.
"In 2017, the Ventura County Sheriff’s Office handled just five murders in its jurisdiction, which covers thousands of square miles."
2
Yet another abhorrent tragedy cutting short the lives of more precious people. Seeing the photos and brief descriptions of the victims is heartbreaking.
Access to guns has to be significantly restricted in the US.
Every time you vote for a Republican (or Democrat) who refuses to ban assault weapons, install universal background checks, close the gun show loophole, increase regulations on safety, up front training, wait time and licensing for buying these lethal weapons you are complicit in these killings. I firmly believe that. Collectively, your votes are why people are being killed, including children. Over 30,000 per year.
The United States is the only democracy where these tragedies occur at such alarmingly high rates. And it is solely because of the rampant use, loose regulation and easy accessibility of guns.
We could choose to exist as a society without easy access to guns. These aren't toys or meant for every day recreational use and their is no inherent unfettered "right" to own one that trumps everyone else's right to life and liberty.
People say that then only criminals would have access to guns. No, sorry. There is no rampant gun crime in Australia, which has banned rifles and shotguns and required people to justify why they need a gun. "Self-protection" is not a reason. We could pass a law for an automatic life sentence for any crime committed with a gun.
The failure to take comprehensive action now will backfire one day.
3
Almost as soon as this tragic event hit the news, we read that the shooter bought his gun "legally" and that it was not likely a "terrorist" attack. These statements are beginning to take on the same cringe associated with the emblematic "our thoughts and prayers."
That we as civilians can no longer go to our places of worship, work places, concerts, bars, schools (K-12), shopping malls, movie theaters, or almost any public space without expecting gun violence is very much intimidation and the aim of terrorism. That the availability of the weapons used in these crimes is supported by purposeful misreadings of the 2nd Amendment is very much the implication of politics in the deaths of civilians going about their daily lives. That many of our politicians lack the courage to address this threat of domestic terror enables mass shootings to continue unabated. And this particular tragic shooting in Thousand Oaks indeed highlights the fallacies of thinking that treating mental illness is a one time visit and having an armed law officer or security guard will deter a murderer with a semi-automatic weapon. Out of respect to the mass shooting victims, we as a society need to sober up to this terrorism of gun violence and fight for common sense gun safety.
4
Mass shootings have become so common that even those who carry them out have become desensitized to them. Not long ago mass shootings were carried out by people who had some reason or purpose for it and they would choose a target that corresponded with that reason or purpose.
This latest mass shooting however, as with the mass shooting in Las Vegas carried out by Steven Paddock, seems to be an act of sheer nihilism. The killers main goal was to kill himself and he simply decided to kill as many other people as he could kill along with him.
And just as with mass shootings in high schools that each shooting causes those shootings to be more common and therefore to for them to happen even more often, the same will be true for people intent primarily with killing themselves. It will become ever more common for those wanting to kill themselves to try to take as many other people as they can with them.
And the more often these shootings will inevitably become, the more numb Americans will get to them. Each new mass is ever less shocking to the nation and the time frame in which the latest mass shooting is the breaking news story that gets the exclusive attention of the nation and in media will get ever shorter and shorter. Till in a few years news of the latest mass shooting will cease to even be the exclusive headline because not only will we no longer be shocked by them, we will have come to expect them, just as we do tornadoes, for example.
So many people have been killed by shooting,maybe few days later, the terrible drama Will play again!If the country still permit opening the gun market, the shooting will be sparked again!
Something needs to be done about the mass shooting fad.
And when I use the term "fad", I'm not doing so lightly. That is exactly what it is - something that is "catching on", accelerating in frequency, becoming more commonplace.
Step one, is to understand why this is happening to us.
Contributing factors:
1. Untreated mental illness.
2. "Click greedy" journalism that causes the perpetrators to think - correctly - that a combined mass murder/suicide will show them as powerful, and make them famous in death.
3. A militaristic culture that associates rapid fire weapons with masculinity and power.
Of these 3 items, the easiest to deal with is the 2nd. Not only is the most important of the 3 root causes, it is the only one that has an instant solution.
How do I know that it is the most important? Because it is the only one the 3 items that parallels the rise in these horrendous crimes.
We have always had violent mentally ill people - there is nothing new about mental illness. You can find examples in the Bible.
There have always been a lot of guns in America. Automatic pistols, similar to the weapon used in this crime, have been readily available since 1896.
What has changed, is the technology used in reporting; these new capabilities, parallel the rise in mass shootings.
Real-time, ultra-personal, and endless coverage of the shooters and the victims, is the proximate cause of the rise in these "me too" crimes.
Tone it down, and save lives.
5
Indeed it is a sick “fad”... Which may simply fade away...
Once again. One more time. Crazy people we find everywhere in this world, no doubt. But crazy people carrying so many guns we find only in one place: USA.
11
I was watching the coverage yesterday morning and an survivor commented that "young people learn how to make themselves the smallest target possible".
I was struck by the horror of this.
The majority of people reading here grew up like I did, free to go out to clubs, go to school, or church, or the grocery store, without needing to immediately look for exits. Never had to size up the pool table, thinking 5 people might get cover there. Never had to stay alert for bangs or loud noises.
Is this the America we want? For our children, our friends, our selves?
We have to enact some gun controls over the type of weapons and ammunition available to the public.
This shooter took a legal handgun, but was then able to modify it to a most likely illegal higher capacity.
Others use AR-15s, a knockoff of a battlefield weapon.
Even though I don't own a gun, I can respect that others do, and it is their right to have a gun for hunting or sport or personal protection.
But we need to stop allowing weapons that are clearly meant for the efficient slaughter of people to be sold.
Being able to purchase items to modify capacity and ammunition that upgrade an ordinary gun to a military class needs consideration. Some weapons are meant for the battlefield and have no place outside of it. Amassing huge arsenals of dozens of guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition should be illegal.
We need more than thoughts or prayers.
10
This was mass shooting #307 this year. So far.
In 2017 we had 346
In 2016 we had 382
In 2015 we had 335
In 2014 we had 270
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls
It's high time we acknowledged that this is who we are.
Mass shootings are so common, only those that break records make national news.
Cover them all equally so people get a true picture of this bloody land.
This is who we are.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
6
When are you going to do something about these weekly shootings Mr. President, 12 here, 14 there and 30 somewhere else? How many more innocent lives will take before you and your Congress decide that enough is enough?
6
Except for their usual "thoughts and prayers", don't expect any meaningful action on gun control by politicians. Why bother? Just keep praying and let God fix the problem.
7
This is what democracry is about, hah? Even 90% of the Americans vote for gun control, nothing will change. Is it ironic?
9
@Daniel
" Even 90% of the Americans vote for gun control, nothing will change"
90% may say they are for better protection against guns, but then some of the 90% vote for Republicans, who are bought and sold by the NRA. If they care enough about this to vote for Democrats, there would be stronger laws.
1
It will take a gunman shooting up the House or Senate to hammer home the message that gun violence is out of control in the USA. And even then I’ll have my doubts anything will happen, except excessive security during House and Senate meetings.
7
@Anna it already happened - a gunman shot at a Republican Congressional baseball team in Virginia a while ago. Congressman Steve Scalise was badly wounded and a couple of the security detail were also shot. And you are correct - it taught them nothing.
2
@Anna
Actually, a gunman entered the House when DeLay was speaker. A brave guard lost his life protecting DeLay, DeLay said that "no one" (meaning no one that mattered to him) was killed and, as Republican leader focused on setting up the lobbyist enabling K Street project with entitlements, rejected talk of better laws
1
Military turns these guys into robots, sends them into war where they get damaged, they come home, are given a bunch of pills, and are still allowed access to guns. What could go wrong?
9
American violence and mass killing at home is directly related to American wars of aggression and imperialism abroad. The costs of these wars of aggression from Vietnam to Central America and now the Muslim world have truly come home to roost.
6
There are more than enough guns in circulation to arm every person, including children, in the USA. And more guns will be purchased every day by Americans who believe that by arming themselves they would be safer despite living in the country with the most lethal law enforcement apparatus. This is madness.
6
Publicly we'll be hearing the usual yada yada yada about "thoughts and prayers," "more access to mental health care," or whatever the sophistry du jour is from our elected representatives. Privately they'll be saying: "It's nothing personal. It's just business."
4
This is really disheartening. As an outsider watching, I can imagine the constant anxiety these citizens find themselves in. Every outing with friends could turn into "Last outing with friends forever." That's sad!
I know brilliant friends who hoped to pursue further studies in the US but these everyday occurrences has caused most of them to revert their decisions.
Or perhaps, this is what the US is hoping for? To make the country unattractive to migrants? That would make so much sense as to why little to nothing is being done to curb the gun violence situation.
Saying "gun control" is not enough if the control is not even working. How about if there is no gun to control, to begin with. No civilian should hold a gun. Yh, that would be extreme, I get it. Aren't the shootings of innocent victims-brother, mother, father, sister, lover, uncle, aunts-also extreme?
Extreme actions call for extreme measures.
America, wake up! or better put, Donald Trump's America, Wake Up!
151
@AS I love the USA exactly because we have the right to own guns to protect ourselves from oppression and criminals. I would not want to live in a country that relies on the good graces of the government for safety and freedom. Trumps authoritarian style gives all the more reason to own guns.
2
@Qcell
Your love of guns comes above all sense of reason. I agree with AC totally!
4
@AS no thanks, you can be a slave or sheep led to slaughter. I'll keep my guns. 40+ years and none of them have jumped up and shot anyone. And I haven't either. Hope I never ever have to. Peace.
2
I truly believe the right wing hatred being spewed by fox and Limbaugh and trump now has been the cause of most of these shootings.
I also believe violent video games have desensitized people from violence.
We must cut the coverage of these events so as not to reward the killers and to prevent copy cat killers.
Let’s talk about deterrence too. Would locking up a killers family in prison stop this madness? If a killers family didn’t report the potential for violence why should they not be punished?
Finally, I think a society where the rich get richer, the poor poorer, the rich get tax cuts, the poor lose healthcare, has created an environment where dogs eat dogs. People aren’t connected to their communities anymore. Bowling alleys are gone.
Sad.
2
My condolences to the victims' families. What a horror.
That being said, this is not "news." These incidents now happen on a monthly if not weekly basis. The media should not treat them as unusual, they are the new normal.
Newspapers and news websites should instead have a section called "Latest Mass Shooting in America." The NRA could sponsor these and feature gun ads.
4
Thank God the states tough gun laws prevented the homicidal maniac from using an assault rifle. A 45 isn’t a joke but it’s not an automatic machine gun.
3
At some point the sad and heart-wrenching feeling of hopelessness just becomes the ridiculous. Gun violence in this country is now ridiculous. The absence of immediate legislation is ridiculous. NRA leaning against the second amendment is ridiculous. Even their ridiculous interpretation of the second amendment is not worthy of further consideration. Why? Because their presumed "right" to gun ownership runs against the rights of others. And it runs against Roosevelt's Four Freedoms - Freedom from Fear.
Every child in school knows you crying "Fire!" in a theater is not protected under freedom of speech. Every child and thinking adult knows that the freedom of a militia does not give the right for gun ownership when it threatens others. We all know this.
That we are even having to discuss this is ridiculous.
Gun control now. Bullet control now. To say otherwise is simply a fetish for guns and has nothing to do with love for this country or its ideals. It is simply a fetish for a lethal hobby.
8
It is the same old thing repeated over and over. We pray, mourn, hold vigils, and do nothing else besides waiting for the next massacre committed by our fellow Americans who exercise their Second Amendment rights. Who is in charge of this country, "We the People" or the NRA?
199
@Dodurgali sadly right now the NRA
10
@Dodurgali
The NRA has nothing to do with it. Americans want these mass murders to happen and continue, until people become an actual victim. The victims and survivors then want everyone else to share their pain and then campaign in the mass media to inspire and incite more shootings. Misery loves company and it’s the victims who are the ones who push for new laws and controls but the effect in American society is to incite further incidents, not reduce them. California has more mass murders than any other state but they have the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.
2
@Dodurgali I'm sorry but 2A doesn't include murder. I think you're confused?
if DJT actually cared to protect his gd country he would be deploying doctors to veterans' hospitals and opioid treatment centers. he'd be moving mountains to de-escalate domestic violence, suicides, and other common gun-related violence.
4
You can thank everyone who refused to renew the 1994 assault weapon ban in 2004. That would be during the George W. Bush presidency.
6
It's really going to take a united effort with gun owners insisting, along with everyone else, that the NRA needs to get out of the political lobbying business and exclusively focus on gun education and gun safety. The NRA has got to stop promoting fear & hate propaganda to improve the profits of the gun manufacturing industry. The NRA should be exclusively teaching our children and gun owners that guns are tools. Only one handgun or rifle is actually needed to defend a property. This gun-candy ownership for macho bragging rights by immature and mentally ill people, and by gang members must be called out as un-cool and cowardly. The idea that citizen hero's should get in the line of fire, or even lone law enforcement officers, is just wrong. The gunman will simply mow them down immediately upon arrival or as soon as someone with a gun comes into view. We have to make a unified effort to change our culture. Posing for photos in public with all of your macho-guns should be discouraged by everyone and called out as inappropriate in a civilized country. Guns should be registered to their owner, who has a license to own guns. All other guns in the hands of unlicensed owners should be confiscated and destroyed and the illegal gun owners should be heavily fined and/or jailed. Enough is Enough.
4
These types of mass murder shootings are as American as apple pie and pick-up trucks.
I've heard that a majority of Americans favor stronger gun control. But it's exually obvious that this issue is not important enough for these people to change their voting habits.
You reap what you sow.
6
There is a good reason why the US will not control guns. Fear makes people more conservative. They are more likely to become religious, and churches will tell them whom Jesus would vote for. People under stress and uncertainty fear the devil they don't know. Thus will be more likely to vote republican.
5
To paraphrase, it’s too soon to talk about thoughts and prayers.
2
Strip Congress of their Secret Service benefits as well as their Capitol Police. The same goes for Cabinet members and the President's children and grandchildren. That may persuade them to change our gun laws or lack thereof.
3
The NRA must be held accountable. Why is there not a class action law suit brought by the best lawyers in the country? Gun slaughter has become a fad that will continue to grow. Money talks when morality disappears. Murder must be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Banning guns is the only way. The founding fathers could not have predicted the AR47 and other automatic guns. There are no other answers. Treat guns like a killer virus that must be contained, isolated, and eradicated.
1
I hear at least once everyday some politician and others saying we are living in the greatest country in the world. Never mind we can’t go to schools, bars, theaters, malls, post offices with the risk of being shot. What makes us the greatest country in the world?
7
As long as there are guns so easily available, there will always be the danger of such horrific incidents.
1
Now for a variant of the elephant in the room. If someone actually manages to enact legislation confiscating every unnecessary gun from private hands (excluding those needed for e.g. forest rangers, Alaskan prospectors etc.) does anyone not foresee a massive bloodbath when law enforcement tries to collect weapons from survivalists, conspiracy theorists, traumatized veterans, 2nd Am. zealots and the like. How many Waco's can we expect?
America may be too far embedded in gun culture for any real enforcement to take place without unknowable consequences likely worse than the horrific shootings we're seeing now.
We really need to start paying a lot more attention to people at risk of becoming unhinged.
2
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The Constitution calls for a well regulated militia. Well where are these regulations? The death toll tells us USA doesn't have them. The USA is not a free state when its citizen live in fear of of being gunned down.
3
When it happens once it may be a sick individual but when it happens regularly it is no longer about the individual, but the system.
One cannot simply brush it off, saying it was just a sick and deranged person. One has to actually start asking what part of society is not working.
Republicans say it is not the guns. It is a mental issue they say. Well where is their comperhensive plan for mental health care? Where is the extra funding?
For a long time republicans have closed down mental care facilities and preferred to spend the money on prisons. Instead of care, the mentally ill are thrown in prison.
Which goes to show, they are not serious when they say it is a mental health issue. It is a deflection tactic to stop talking about gun control.
I don’t personally think guns are the only factor but it is the most prominent one. Poverty, inequality, mental health care, culture etc are also factors but neither of those other factors are easier to change than gun regulation.
Better mental health care is going to require higher taxes. A hard sell in a anti-tax country like America. Gun control is much cheaper. So for the political realist, that is where one has to start.
5
it's hard to understand why, after so many lives lost to mass shootings, the Republicans are still not taking the necessary gun control measures. How many more lives have to be lost before they act? without stringent gun control measures a president whose loud divisive rhetorics stoke fear & hatred, it is just a matter of time before the next mass shooting.
1
Gun control is not enough. By now that should be clear to anyone capable of thought. But how do you rid a country of guns when there are more of them than there are human beings?
1
What do you mean... a Year after Las Vegas? Sure, both shootings happened in country music venues. But does the venue really matter? There was a shooting just about 12 days ago in the temple in Pittsburgh, a shooting November 2 in a yoga studio (didn't see much of it in the news -- perhaps because only 7 people were injured and 3 people died - including the shooter). Temple, yoga studio, bar, school -- the common denominator is GUNS IN THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS. You can connect the dots a lot of different ways but stop trying to make the fundamental issue go away.
3
Marine Corporal Long was a machine gunner in Afghanistan who most likely killed there. You cannot realistically expect a seasoned killer to come home and enter society or become a cop without the distinct possibility that they will kill again. It's just a fact of life and not just my opinion.
This issue is not being honestly addressed by society's leaders, or worse, is sanctioned by them and encouraged. The returning veterans need more than a sympathetic desire to alleviate the pain of his or her conscience. They have to be retrained in the codes of conduct and basic laws of society to reaclimate them to a peaceful environment. They must be retrained to live absent violence, not encouraged to be the great leaders to lead us in future wars or become cops with automatic weapons riding the streets of America.
The Pentagon may want to continue the culture of militarism in American life and governance but civil government must reign them in and promote reaclimation to peace. Maybe then we won't have a war every decade or cops killing civilians, instead deescalating conflict in America and the world. There is too much risk to continue on the current path.
Mr. Long used a very lethal .45 semiautomatic handgun to kill when his mind let loose. Thank God he didn't have his machine gun in a crowd of hundreds.
We are being visited by the aftereffects of war here at home. It is destroying us day by day. Reflect on your simplistic militant ways and argue against wars.
6
Many people are close to the edge at any given time, for a variety of reasons. In a country full of guns most of those that go over the edge choose the simplest path and take their own lives. And some act on other impulses. This will not change. This will get worse. The horse is well and truly out of the barn.
1
If the folks with guns are so convinced it’s the mentally ill who are the problem, not guns, please impose a tax or insurance requirement on those who choose to have guns to ensure unstable fellow citizens are taken care of and victims of gun violence are compensated.
It’s not the guns, right? You want guns out there? You pay to help people who would use them to harm others. And your gun insurance money goes to help gun violence victims’ families bear their loss.
We do for CARS. CARS. Not intended to kill people or animals.
5
This headline will be gone from people's minds in a couple of days. Of course this ongoing problem of shootings should be addressed, but it won't be. However many people care about such things in this country, there aren't enough. Living with these completely unnecessary tragedies day in and day out is just part of what it means to reside in the US now. I'm not going to talk about solutions anymore. I'm not going to get angry or upset. I'm not going to express my outrage among friends. I'm just going to respect and appreciate the country and its electorate less and less with each passing incident.
From the Right we will either get total radio silence, thoughts and prayers, or this isn't the time rhetoric. But the one thing that is missing is viable solutions that can solve gun violence in our nation.
1
The collective right to live one's life in peace means that the individual right to own guns and carry them in public must be curtailed, and yes, I'm being socialist. With all rights come equal responsibilities.
3
gun free zones are deadly. we need common sense gun free zone laws that require adequate armed security in all gun free zones.
1
Mass shootings in this country are going to continue to grow in frequency for many years probably before any sensible gun legislation is passed. More states have been loosening gun laws rather than tightening them.
The NRA and gun rights enthusiasts' basic argument is that their individual right to have fun firing semi automatic weapons of war takes precedence over the health and safety of their friends, family, and fellow Americans.
The convergence of an increasingly isolated society and hateful autocratic leaders and officials that encourage and exacerbate divisions for political gain ensures that gun violence will continue to grow. This country holds a lot of cognitive dissonance in its cultural psyche, nowhere more so than with guns.
1
So maybe criminal profilers develop deeper insights after piecing together all mass shootings to find similarities in personality, mental illness, and motivation. It is unknown if that spills out into private detective firms charging lots of money to confidentially do "profiling" for proprietors of public houses, in hopes this carnage can be prevented by security, using profile scenarios to train from. At some point, private policing might make a comeback.
PTSD information is all over the web, and it all seems to point to taking a vast amount of time for recovery of veterans.
1
Sad tragedies like this are an all too regular event, which is hardly surprising given the sheer number of guns owned in the USA. I am not convinced that the current interpretation of the 2nd amendment is in any way what your founding fathers intended. However, it is hard to imagine how things could possibly change, given the enormous influence of the NRA. Every innocent victim is somebody's brother, sister, wife, husband, child and the grief caused will haunt families for years. This seems to have little to do with a well regulated militia.
1
I am 24 years old, just at the age of realizing the beauty of life. I appreciate and enjoy every little thing happened in my life, good or bad, happy or sad moments. I have plenty of things to do, to enjoy, or to suffer from my tomorrow. Even in my most difficult moments of life, never once that I wanted to give up my life. These 19,20 years old college freshmen had more possibilities, but they lost their chances. Why? Because their lives worth less than interest to some people. This is not an incident, this is murder. This is a murder from the people who don't want to give up their power. I accept that we have uneven resource distribution among different people in this country, but I don't accept that my life, one day, will be a sacrifice to someone else's eager of power.
35
Profit. America is not just the land of the free, home of the brave. It is also, the land of rampant capitalism. The prominent religion is not Christianity, but pure, unadulterated greed. Greed is what has made this the 300th some mass shooting, this year.
Greed is what makes the gun industry so fervent in its goal of selling as much gun, ammunition, and other products to as many men, women, and children as possible. The gun industry cares more about its profit margins. The NRA is its loudspeaker that sells whatever twisted version of the truth it can in order to sell more guns. The NRA buys lawmakers through donations. The NRA owns Republican lawmakers, governors and every elected position through money.
The laws won't change because the lawmakers have been bought. The system is rigged, for the ultra rich and the defense industry. They re-directed the leftovers for the DOD toward the civilians. Only those who intend to kill as many people under as little time have the incentive to buy armed rifles and other weapons of war. And guess what, they are dear customers of the gun industry.
The laws must change. The system must change. Just as anti-abortionists have made some voters into single issue voters, gun control advocates must do the same. If a lawmakers is pro-gun, they must be voted out. Otherwise there will be more Tree of Life, Thousand Oak bars to come.
Freedom to arms does not mean freedom to use arms indiscriminatly, to kill even when it is unwarranted.
27
PRESIDENT Trump, aren't they all yours to care for too? You have the power to change all this. For the sake of your children and grandchildren, this cannot be our children's future of fear.
7
Move aside "MAGA".
The new slogan for 2020 should be MASA ! " Make America Safe Again"! or "MAWA" Make America well again.
No country can be "Great" without looking after the safety and well being of its people. Whether they are the little "American" kindergarten kids, "American" Jewish elderly worshipers in a
Synagogue, or young "American" students having a good time in a bar. The country is only as "Great" in its capacity to serve and nurture the well being of its citizens.
This almost feels like the end of what once was a mighty empire.
20
In the US, professional police, democratic institutions that provide security. Why do people need weapons?
2
Not just gun control is needed. Ban all guns, period.
10
It is insane that we now live in a country in which there are people who've survived multiple mass shootings. It is insane that some of the people that went through this tragedy are survivors of the Las Vegas mass shooting. Absolutely crazy. This is our country right now.
18
I completely share your feelings of disbelief and sheer awe that someone can live in the US, probably one of safest societies that has ever existed, and be a survivor of two mass shootings. As the article details, there are those who survive one only to perish in another. I still think it's important to remember that one is far more likely to die in a "classic" homicide than in a mass shooting and that handguns, not rifles, are the main culprit.
I think these killers are basically suicides who want to take others with them and make headines for once in their lives. I guess they were around in the 1960's, people like Charles Whitman. But they are much more numerous now. I think it may have to do with the innumerable stories of suicide bombers in the Middle East. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think the phrase "suicide bombers" existed until the 1980's. It might be interesting to see how the rise of suicide bombers overseas tracks with the suicide shooters in this country.
1
Gun "control" is not enough. That's like saying "doughnut control" and then putting a box of doughnuts in the middle of the room. If they're there, the doughnuts will be eaten; if we have them, the guns will be used (to kill people, not just deer skd ducks). If you want to lose weight, zero tolerance - ban tje doughnuts; of you want to stop gun murders, ban the guns. I mean 100%. They do it in Japan amd London and no one ever complained of not having a gun on their fun vacation to either country.
188
Look at all the robbery’s/random stabbings and to lesser extent gun violence and say London is a proper example.
@Percaeus The Japanese people obey the laws, and there is very little crime. In the UK criminals use knifes instead, good luck getting the second amendment repealed. It will never happen in our lifetime, will you volunteer to come take our guns? Most police officers and military personnel support the constitution, they took an oath. I'm glad you are not running for office.
@Percaeus We could also consider ammunition control.
1
I said this on social media after Sandy Hook and everyone jumped down my throat, but I still think it’s a solution.
Yank every Congressmen and Senator’s kids out of their privileged protected environment and send them to public schools and public events.
Let them worry with fear that their child may not return home, I bet the sway the NRA holds over them would fade REAL fast.
24
The real tragedy is not only the innocent lives lost but the uncaring Congress, Supreme Court and the
White House who can do something about it but will not. All these mass shootings will persists until Washington pass reasonable gun laws such as countries like Canada, UK and Australia. The American people are being ill served by the highest levels of government and yet they vote them in again and again. And nobody is accountable. Nobody. So sad.
26
I'm so sorry for these young folks and the people who loved them.
As for those who keep blocking gun control, here's all your arguments refuted:
1. Put a guard with a gun at the door. Yeah, that worked well. Anyone can be sucker-punched or sucker shot--just walk up with a concealed gun and any guard goes down.
2. With armed good guys on the premises, all will be safe. Yeah? There were five off duty police here, I understand and I imagine some were armed. Didn't help.
3. Only crazies shoot people. If we take guns away from the mentally ill, we'll be safe. Yeah? But this veteran had been assessed by trained mental health workers and they missed his potential danger. You cannot predict who may snap and kill.
We need gun control. We need bullet control. We need to realize that assault weapons are for assaulting the innocent. Enough is enough.
42
@Penich ban gasoline in the process. If someone snaps, tossing a few molotovs inside a crowded clubs is actually easier than smuggling assault rifle inside, collapsible stock or not
Deeply sorry to say this.
Gunning down civilians in broad daylight looks like a feature of American life.
No policy change for guns and occasional massacres in every day life seem an American culture.
I just hope that several generations later people will see this gun culture as weird and unbelievable.
Right now no hope for any change.
20
I’ve lived in Thousand Oaks for 8 years. My wife and I moved here from LA for the good schools and laid back vibe. We have 3 kids 5 and under, its suburban paradise. In a normal year, a drug bust is the big news. Never thought this place would become synonymous with Parkland, Charlottesville, Sandy Hook, Squirrel Hill, etc, etc, etc. And then I turn on CNN in the afternoon and the only talk is about Sessions getting canned. News cycle is on to juicier fodder. We have become a country that has grown bored with a mass shooting. Let that sink in. The apocalypse can’t be far away. We are very warm frogs.
28
I think you must fight fire by removing the oxygen. You don’t give these monsters airtime, and I mean 24/7 coverage. Remove the coverage and hopefully you’ll stop the madness.
News reports indicate the shooter was a military veteran suffering from PTSD. A Navy veteran friend tells me that it can take a year for a vet to be able to schedule an appointment with a psychologist at a VA facility. She asks: "Why does our government have plenty of money for a big military parade or to send troops to seal the border against this so-called migrant caravan, but we can't afford to staff the VA vets can get the help we need?" And I remembered a young man who lived in my neighborhood, 27 years old, the father of a young son, an Afghanistan veteran, who was terrorized by Fourth of July fireworks; he overdosed on drugs the summer before last. I echo my friend's question - why can't we give veterans the help they need so desperately?
33
How is this even newsworthy? This is just the new normal. The notion that the Second Amendment provides a private right to gun ownership, once a fringe position advanced by the NRA and called by Republican Chief Justice Warren Burger “a fraud”, has now been adopted by the Supreme Court and is wrongly assumed by most Americans to have always been the law. Likewise, regulation of gun ownership is widely assumed to be hopelessly ineffective notwithstanding that other countries like Australia have had very positive results. The bottom line is that Americans are so convinced that gun ownership is a right that cannot legally or effectively be regulated that nothing can or will be done.
If you’re a young person who doesn’t want to live life like a target in a shooting gallery, my suggestion is to consider moving to a rational country. Because America’s hot and heavy love affair with these weapons of mass destruction shows no sign of cooling off.
13
Buried at the very end of a sidebar article is this chilling information:
"Initial police reports suggest the gunman used a large-capacity magazine. The sale of these magazines has been prohibited in the state for several years and Prop 63 banned their possession. The law, passed in 2016, was supposed to go into effect on July 1, 2017, but the gun lobby challenged it. A court enjoined the law, so possession of these magazines is not yet illegal."
20
By executive order. By Congressional action. By whatever means possible, every gun shop. every venue in this country, every online site, every gun convention, EVERYWHERE guns are sold - SHUT THEM DOWN. Immediately. All gun purchases banned. No sales permitted.
Are Federal Marshals needed, get them there. Police Departments, Sheriffs' offices. Get them there. Get the U.S. Army Reserves. The National Guard. We must police the State. Get them there. Violations of 2nd Amendment rights. This is a national emergency. Suspend Sales until the strictest gun laws in the world are in effect Here. Suspend manufacturing of military grade weapons at its source - shut down production and operation.
Lobbyists working on behalf of the NRA banned from further meeting with member of Congress - all members of Congress. All meetings.
All members of Congress accepting contributions from the NRA to report the full amount of NRA monies given. Any member of Congress who takes so much as one dime from the NRA, its lobbyists, or its campaign donor sources to be suspended.
No further gun sales permitted in the United States. No Congressional support through campaign donations. Shut the operation down at its source: MANUFACTURING, RETAIL SALES AND CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN SUPPORT.
WE need to march on Washington. Millions of us need to march on Washington. This won't stop until We The People act.
18
I don't see why we can't have gun laws similar to those of other countries where this rarely happens.
8
Those countries banned guns before their citizens were able to buy millions of them. Unlike the US.
After Vegas, Parkland, Pittsburgh and now Thousand Oaks, it is evident that it's not a problem Republicans even feel they have to define or address. They are silent and let it happen, lest they commit sacrilege on the NRA
11
"As people raced for safety, many of them thought: Not again."
How odd — I could not find anything about that in the article.
2
Shootings are now the norm. So when are we going to ban guns?
4
What would be the tipping point that would enable some common sense gun control measures in America?!
4
Is this insane enough? How many mass shootings have to occur before our elected legislators turns their back on the pressure of the NRA and enact common sense gun control. Mental health alone isn't the answer, even with PTSD this man was judged to be not dangerous. Even with PTSD he had guns. Even with officers in the club 13 are dead. The majority of Americans believe that common sense gun laws are necessary. Why are our representatives out of touch with us? Why are the minority literally holding us hostage?
10
The experts who judged he was not dangerous were wrong and share responsibility for the carnage. Their incompetence is exposed. What are we to do but duck.
Or emigrate.
2800 deaths on Texas roads this year and the year isn't up yet. I have been crying for tougher drivers licensing laws; mandatory driver education, including correct action in event of a road emergency. 3 strikes you're out, for DUI. Driving without a license gets 10 years. Stuff like that.
Not to diminish deaths by firearms, but, why do I hear crickets about safety on our roads? 2800 deaths to date puts Texas at an average of 93 dead per day. PER DAY PEOPLE!
6
Sane country: "Wow, this is awful and we have to control access to guns to prevent tragedies like this in the future".
USA: "Wow, everybody needs a gun to be safe".
And what happened to the armed and heroic law enforcement officer? And the shooter only had a pistol. Good luck with the Rambo fantasies.
6
You know one place where guns are absolutely forbidden? The Capitol Building.
You see, for Republican in Congress, your life, your friends lives, your families lives, your children's lives, they're all put on the auction block and sold to the NRA, but their lives never will be. Because, for Republicans in Congress, the only lives that really matter to them, are their own.
18
Shootings, killings every day and everywhere. There are no more safe places in America anymore. Since 9/11 our country became more violent and there are no more loves between Americans . What happened? It was a mistake we sent troops to Afghanistan and Iraq. No more love and compassion between us. Killing others became routine. Sad. This is not the America I remembered. Mental illness is not the only problem. Too many guns in the wrong hands is the major problem. America becomes killing field.
5
I wonder how soon it will be when a child asks a parent, “How come the flag’s at full-staff today?”
3
Events such as this and the prevalence of firearms make us apprehensive when visiting the US and along with the popularity of Trump and colleagues convince us never ever again to live in the US. Never thought That I would say it, but we are thankful to have been able to get out.
6
We have this group, Growing Veterans, that helps socialize soilders and provides peer support for anyone in the armed services. He served, he came back with pain, who was there for him? People lost their kids today, but their kids could be this guy someday very soon. What are we going to do as a community to address PTSD, depression, anxiety, and returning to civilian life.
5
Despite the fact that guns should be well controlled by the state/ federal state, I don't think Gun Control is the issue here as this man could have easily obtained other means of hurting people instead that can deliver the same result with a gun.
1
Fact 1. Even in countries with high rates of gun ownership, events like this do not happen with ANYWHERE NEAR the frequency that they are happening here.
Fact 2. There is no way that you can claim that rates of mental illness are significantly higher here than in other industrialized countries.
So I've had ENOUGH of gun-rights defenders consistently jumping to the solution that we need to blame the shooter not the weapon and, gee, we really need to do more about the mentally ill because that's clearly the problem (when exactly that's supposed to happen who knows?).
These people are not only blind to the problem but they are costing lives every week, every month, every year in this country by stubbornly refusing to face the fact that we have a problem here. In the U.S.A.
It's not complicated. Something big needs to be done to address this very big problem. Yes, finding the solution may be complicated, but refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem by "putting the blame where it belongs, not on the weapon but on the shooter" is in a certain way supporting mass murder.
4
Maybe it's a relatively small # of insane individuals but they do so much damage, along with your garden variety shootings that we never hear much about unless they're in our immediate locale. The argument that most gun owners are law abiding is totally irrelevant. This nation, the United States of America can not handle the 2nd amendment. It cannot handle the proliferation of firearms, legal or otherwise. Outside of the military and law enforcement, radical changes in gun ownership rights must be implemented.
4
I often find myself wondering these days, when I'm in the halls of my school, walking across the parking lot of the grocery store, picking my son up at daycare if I am about to be shot.
5
..does everyone understand there are over 300 million guns in the United States - while banning assault rifles is something which should have been done decades ago (Sen. McCain once voted against banning assault rifles), it’s too late.
The gun supply, as it currently stands, would last at least a decade or longer, even if they didn’t manufacture another gun. Hundreds of millions of guns, accessible to hundreds, if not thousands of individuals who have no right owning a firearm.
We’ve created this - now we have to live with the consequences.
2
We need to do more than write pithy comments and mourn the unlucky casualties, God rest their souls. We need action...we need to take to the streets, we need to boycott stores that sell these weapons, we need to demand gun control on state and federal levels. This is a uniquely American tragedy because we are the only civilized society to allow it's citizens to arm themselves to the teeth. The second amendment allows the right to bear arms, it doesn't allow anybody to own any gun. The only way to start this conversation is to come together and demand that we stop this insanity and stop supporting the companies that profit from the deaths of our children.
3
Agree except it is apparent that we are not a civilized society.
How many of the victim's friends and family will now speak up for gun control ? Never hear this addressed by them on social media or press reports - even after the expected grieving period.
The time for talk is over on this issue. The people who could do something won't. Only mass demonstrations by all segments of society, and refusal to support NRA funded congressmen could make a difference. That won't happen either. So the American people are ipso facto accepting mass shootings and have little to complain about when it happens to them.
I know this sounds harsh. But in the end it is 'we the people' who must take a united stand against such egregious social destruction . Serious gun control IS the answer and everybody with half a brain knows it. If we do not not take a stand 'we the people' are also responsible for mass shootings .
3
For the umpth time: forget gun sales, what do we do with the 350 million in circulation?
And assuming something can be done, does anybody think that the guns are a problem?
What about the almost impossibility to find a single movie that does not depict shooting massacres?
4
If we do not weep for victims of gun violence, we have lost our heart. If we do nothing to stop gun violence, we have lost our soul.
6
Good reporting. Heartbreaking reporting.
4
Thanks to a Republican Senate and president this will happen again and again and again and again and again until at least 2020. This is one of the most important reasons I vote: to save lives from gun violence.
2
The bottom line is that, as currently interpreted, Mr. Long’s Constitutional right to bear arms was stronger then his victims’ Constitutional right to life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness.
9
As a jew and a high school student, such frequency, senseless violence, and brutality of shootings terrify me.
I have always perceived school as a safe place for me to learn and enjoy the pleasures of society without feeling the negative affects. Politics and the outside world seem to have always been on the edge, and out of view. The scary reality never affected me.
Now, when I walk into a classroom I do not seek out familiar faces but search for a hiding spot and the best escape.
I see now that reality and my safe space have collided and has become something unrecognizable: visceral and intense fear at every corner.
4
There were six people in an operating room 1 mile from the Boarderline at 7am this morning. We were not operating on a victim. I was the only one advocating for stronger gun control. The othet five had all kinds of reasons against it. A knife can be just as deadly like in England argued one. Slippery slope said others. So, congratulations my friends, on living in the developed country with the best chance of being indiscriminately murdered by a complete stranger with an automatic weapon. They felt like the occasional mass shooting is an acceptable price to pay for gun freedom like the occasional plane crash is the acceptable risk for air travel. With these acolytes of Fox news and the NRA, heaven help us.
5
Why can’t we pass a national gun law modeled after California law, which, among other things, bans the sale of assault rifles, requires background checks, requires ALL gun sales to go through certified dealers, and imposes a 10 day waiting period between purchase and delivery? CA is also trying to limit the amount of ammo that can be purchased at one time.
Isn’t this common sense? It doesn’t prevent anyone from owning a gun(s) for hunting or self defense. On the plus side, it would severely reduce the number of guns in circulation, where guns have become as common as and as easy to acquire as bottled water.
Instead, we have done nothing at the federal level. The NRA has their hooks well embedded in our elected officials. So maybe campaign finance reform would help. I’d prefer a system where candidates raise money ONLY from individual donations, rather than the cash-rich lobbyists and Super PACs.
47
Why not stick with the second amendment? After all, it provides us eith all of the requisite protections to control gun violence by way of its stipulation that citizens carrying firearms are members of a well-regulated militia.
This is more or less what we have in Switzerland. No mass shootings by individuals, there.
1
Your country doesn't do common sense otherwise Trump wouldn't have made it to the debate stage....
1
The shooter has been described by those who served with him as a "low performing" marine who was a little off. Another outcast trained to kill, eerily similar to the bone chilling character played by Vincent D'Onofrio in Stanley Kubrick's film, Full Metal Jacket. Such a waste of lives. There has to be a better way for people like him, and for us.
22
Sad. Terribly sad. I suppose the answer from our current government is equally sad.
11
I found myself scrolling past articles on the shooting as if they were contagious. Numb, like so many others, to this senseless but preventable violence. We just had an election and the levers of power have shifted a little. But I feel even more powerless knowing an entire political party is against any legislation that would prevent more gun deaths.
I am sick of the defeatist attitudes (criminals will be criminals!), sick of the extreme paranoia (they will take all your guns!), and sick of the Wild West mentality (we all need more guns!). You cannot be “pro-life” and not do whatever is possible to make sure this epidemic is stopped. You cannot be an American patriot and sow severe distrust in our government. I deserve freedom from the fear of being gunned down, freedom from thinking loud noises in public areas might be attacks. These thoughts are like a silent dark cloud in the background that doesn’t prevent me from living my life, but is constantly present.
27
This is so horrible, and it’s terrifying to me that it doesn’t seem to be an unusual occurrence anymore. We need serious overhauls in both gun laws and mental health services.
14
Returning from living abroad for some time, I've noticed that the media do not report in photos, the real awfulness of gun violence, the real human loss. Until the media does, the rest of the world will not see how guns are ripping apart our country. We do not like to see it but it is necessary that people connect the dots. We CAN do something to stop gun violence. Get rid of the guns.
It was controversial, last week, when the NYT ran a photo of a starving Yemeni child who died soon after. It is the awful, necessary part of telling the whole story that will make us all stand up and say, "Stop! Enough!" and face people in Congress and the Oval Office to own up to the human costs of specific foreign and domestic policy decisions.
42
I 100% agree! The US media never shows the blood or wreckage like in other countries. It is considered uncouth in the US but the rest of the world does not omit the carnage. The violence just can't be hidden anymore so that we can go about continuing our quest of conspicuous consumption blind to the evil deeds before our eyes. God forbid black Friday sales go down. SHAMEFUL.
2
Funny how conservatives are nostalgic about the 1950's but stop any efforts to regulate guns that didn't even exist... in the 1950's. Make America Safe for Corporate Profits.
23
Public opinion helped to put an end to our wars in South East Asia fueled by the nightly 16mm footage of bleeding or dead troops airlifted out of combat and the photojournalism of Life and Look magazines.
It's past time to show the scenes of these dead victims who have bled out all over the floor; the close-ups of the indignity of being slaughtered en mass for no good reason; to let their lifeless bodies speak on their behalf to this insanity which has become the norm.
This is a war being waged upon us by paranoid gun owners and gun manufactures who profit from death. Let's cover it like we used to. Print all crime scene photos. There's no glory in these acts and none in killing yourself having done it.
27
I have said for a while now that veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan need to be screened and monitored after their discharges. Too many have psychiatric conditions, whether caused by or exacerbated by combat, and need to be followed to see if they are public safety risks. People are going to scream this is an insult to veterans? Let's list the veterans involved recently in mass shootings: the one in the airport baggage claim in Florida; the one in the Yoga studio in Tallehassee; and now this one. If I remember correctly, the gunman in the Baptist church slaughter in Texas was a vet. I worked with veterans for 25 years in the VA, and worked in psych units and PTSD programs during some of that time. There are too many ticking time bombs out there. We need to keep eyes open and identify those who are decompensating and likely to commit these atrocities.
13
How about we stop sending our children to fight these wars that aren’t ours??
1
Still praise and support 2nd amendment and you'll have more of these. It's beyond my understanding why Americans are NOT capable to learn that gun control would solve this issue. So sad
19
Such shocking news. Again. The question is always why? And the only answer I can come up with is because they can. There is nothing stopping them. In fact, they are enabled. Their right to buy and use military grade weapons to kill their fellow citizens trumps their victims' right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Why?
13
"Poll after poll tells us that large majorities of Americans want stronger gun control."
If those "large majorities" would bother voting for candidates who support stronger gun control, then we would have stronger gun control.
They must not "want" it all that much.
12
Our heartfelt reaching out to those touched by this craziness. We are so sorry to hear the news. Too far away to hold you close and comfort you, we leave these choked words to let you know ...
3
History gets repeated time and again. We continue to weep for those who lost their lives. They can never comeback. Their family members have lost their loved ones once for all. This has been happening since many decades at nonstop speed.
What’s the solution here ? Now that a dozen people are dead, are you going to procure more guns ? How long this madness will continue ? When will sanity prevail ?
5
Even if sanity does prevail, think of the number of weapons are already in the hands of potential murderers.
2
Once again, blood on the hands of Mitch McConnell and the Republicans who blocked doing anything after Sandy Hook even as the heartbroken parents watched from the balcony of the Senate.
22
Currently I’m touring India and a friend of mine a prominent physician, made a comment..
“Nothing will change in America. Trump will be president again.”
7
And to think, Trump is demonizing the migrant caravan as the greatest threat ever to the good people of the United States when in fact it is our own home bred and born with an arsenal of lethal firepower.
22
"Uniquely American"? The staff at Charlie Hebdo would disagree.
A study by the Crime Prevention Reseach Center showed the US doesn't make the top 12. Norway is #1, followed by Serbia, France and Macedonia.
1
@DaveC
NOOOO. That CPRC does what all these various whacko organizations do, lump together any shooting with these kinds of random assaults. He lumps in terrorist attacks, which, as horrible as they are, have a political dimension to them. He also goes back 40 years, so all those attacks in the Middle East, the Shining Path in Peru, Bader Meinhoff in Germany, etc., they're all included. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, and you know it, and you're purposely trying to cloud the issue by bringing it into this discussion.
It's lame to bring Charlie Hebdo into this. Charlie Hebdo was in the business of poking fun and satirizing those who disagreed with it. One can rightfully expect someone to get hacked off at them, some of them dangerously so. But country music fans? NO COMPARISON.
3
The GOP will support gun control as soon as Americans start writing them bigger checks then the NRA.
For the record, I wonder if you divided the bribes the NRA gives to the GOP by the number of Americans slaughtered in mass shootings what it would be? Would it be $50? $100?
In other words, I wonder how much each dead American nets for a GOP representative these days? What's the going rate for supporting the whole-cloth mass-murder of your own citizens?
8
Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Vegas, Tree of Life Synagogue; dozens more mass shootings who’s names escape me.
And now today, 12 more in Ca. Another week, another massacre in the USA. Are we inured yet? Certainly we feel empathy, feel their pain but only the faces, names of the victims change.
The laws most assuredly, do not.
10
News sources such as the NYT must re-examine how they cover mass shootings because at present, I fear that even just a week from now this "shocking" event will have fallen away from the headlines and national consciousness--not to mention the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, which might as well have occurred in the Middle Ages rather than two weeks ago. These shootings must be treated as monumental tragedies to be covered for weeks, months on end. They are not commonplace events to be dropped from discourse when something more interesting pops up. They are the manifestation of a uniquely American crisis.
9
I was thinking on how can we blame it on Muslims and immigrants, and this is the logic.
1). Because of prolonged war in Iraq and Afghanistan the marine got PTSD.
2). Immigrants are taking away our jobs.
In both of the cases, my girlfriend left me & so I shoot people. Got it.
2
I am not getting numb. Or maybe part of me is trying to get numb, but there is another part which can't, which is fighting against being numb.
That part of me is getting sicker with each senseless act. I feel like throwing up. So many lives -- my fellow citizens, my brothers, my sisters -- senselessly thrown away and destroyed. So many families who will now grieve and whose lives will never be the same.
What is this madness?
I refuse to get numb. I can't get numb. My humanity demands I not get numb. My humanity refuses to let me get numb. My humanity is feeling very tired, weary, sad, angry, and I feel sick. Again.
5
Gun control is right. Heartbreaking.
"Someone is looking over me,” he said. “And for the people who got out last night, someone was looking over them too.”
To Chris Weber , the survivor who made that statement:
By stating that, you are stating that you and those who were fortunate enough to have survived, are worthier than those who were gunned down- Someone was looking over you- but not over them.
I found your belief and statement to be sickening.
12
I'm a lifelong democrat voting, pro-Second Amendment, gun owning, registered independent.
No gun regulation would have prevented this, but a "no gun" regulation might have...
I know this, fully. But I'm not ready to give mine up... I don't brandish it. It's stored away, secure... I never even see it except the occasional cleaning... but as long as so many exist, and as long as I live in a red voting district where all my neighbors have them... I'm not ready to give mine up.
The only way to stop all of this is to fully break the Second Amendment... and for that to happen, you're going to have to break the American love affair with guns... and then you're still going to have to break the more sensible and responsible owners like me...
Guns aren't going anywhere. Not anytime soon. We need to focus on mental health, education, and income inequality... but mostly we need to focus on civility. From our leaders through to the media, we need more civility. We know how people are killing... we ignore why they are killing.
Attitude reflects leadership. We're in a moral vacuum right now. Everyone is asking for a new hyper progressive agenda when we really need a refresher in the fundamentals before we look toward some utopian model.
10
First and foremost, thank you for coming at this from a genuine place of sharing your perspective and inviting thoughtful dialogue. But the question I have is: does it have to be all or nothing? I support gun control, but I don't want to take your gun away (well, ok, maybe we'd need to talk if the gun you own is a semi automatic rifle). But seriously, you seem like a responsible guy with a cool head on his shoulders, so it's not your gun that worries me. But what about those with known mental instability, criminal history, or patterns of hateful behavior? Can't we make the process of who gets to own and keep guns smarter and safer? And yes, can't we also work on all the root issues you bring up: education, civility, mental health? I think we're going to have to go at this from every angle, because the problem is just that big and that urgent.
6
@J You make some nice points but another way to look at it is the guardrail on the PCH doesn't keep every car from going over the side, but we sure are better having it there than not. And can someone PLEASE show me where it says "guns" in the second amendment? I've yet to find it, but every time I look I always see "well regulated".
1
@J I don't really care that you think you're sensible. What gun owner would ever view themselves as lacking the sense and maturity to own a gun. The fact of the matter is that ANYONE who ones a gun--no matter how sensible that gun owner may believe they are--is statistically far too likely to injure another person with their gun. Whether it's accidentally shooting your wife thinking its a burglar, or your child shooting themselves because you left your gun sticking out of your purse, you put your life and your loved one's lives at risk by owning a gun. Sensible intentions do not always lead to sensible outcomes.
2
6 am, overnight events, following.
Why was this not the lead?
Glimmer of hope that the midterm results will address the root of this epidemic.
The Republican Congress and Trump won't do anything except to offer condolences to the victims and denounce the shooter and his motives. But the net result remains. A mass shooting, a dozen people fatally massacred, injuries, devastated survivors, communities with their hearts ripped out, injuries and property damage. And this is just this week's latest installment. Another mass shooting will happen again soon enough and now everyone knows that's not mere hyperbole.
In an argument with a Second Amendment supporter he conceded that he'd rather America continue to experience mass shootings such as these in order to maintain the status quo and no additional regulations with respect to his firearms.
Is that present policy MAGA?
4
When will we finally stop allowing our loved ones to be murdered. I foolishly thought that after Newtown our gun laws would be changed.It has become accepted that mass shootings will occur and our children are now trained on how to survive.The answer is not to arm more people but to stop the sale of weapons of mass murder. We are all responsible for the continuation of these mass shootings by allowing our politicians to stay in office if they do not change our gun laws to protect our loved ones.
3
So much for the argument that if only the victims had guns, they'd be protected. Two guys with the guns died in this tragedy along with all those who were unarmed. What will it take to wake up, America?
15
As the dissenting opinion in District of Columbia correctly pointed out, the majority wrongly treated the militia clause of the Second Amendment as "mere surplussage" by ruling that the right to bear arms is an individual rather than a collective right. But even if the right to bear arms is an individual right, it, like the other rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, is not absolute. For example, the Court has ruled that in exigent circumstances, a search can be conducted without a warrant despite the text of the Fourth Amendment. So, if there can be warrantless searches in certain circumstances, so too can there be limits to the right to bear arms. I would argue that barring assault weapons, bump stock and extended magazines like the the gunman used in the Thousand Oaks shooting are reasonable restrictions on the right to bear arms.
9
I wanted to reply on the other article regarding California having the most restrictive gun laws that continue to grow, but there's no comments box, and also, I think my addition is relevant here as well.
One thing I think people either do not realize or refuse to acknowledge is that gun control laws always make exemptions to law enforcement officers and military - both active and retired - to purchase restricted items like off-roster handguns, assault-style rifles in non-sporting configuration, and standard/extended capacity magazines for their own personal use on the job or for their own personal collection. And that's important to note here because the gunman was a former Marine just two-years-removed from active service. I wouldn't be surprised if he got his "extended magazines" legally while he was active.
4
What does this mean to the NRA? This, to them, is the meaning and price of "freedom." How sick. This organization will never take steps to support the de-escalation of firearm saturation, the profit behind the commodification of lethality, and the ideology of wanna-be "militia-ready." How sick.
5
@Telly55 They will most certainly change their tune when black, Latino, and Asian Americans start carrying firearms. Remember Reagan's assault weapons ban?
3
This man was taking pills with he side effect of psychosis, violent acts and suicide thoughts.
And people wonder why.
3
California has good gun safety standards on the books vs most of this country’s lax gun laws. Still stuff like this latest gun massacre happens. The NRA/GUN LOBBY have evidently instructed their paid in full politicians to stay silent , and quietly keep the status quo as it is! We are at their mercy and nothing can change this mind-set as of now....Sorry!
Please don't bombard us with a series of articles about the shooter and his motivations. That just encourages potential copycats.
1
Another Glock used for mass murder.
Can we not boycott every town with a gun shop that refuse to stop selling Glocks?
Hey NY Times and other media outlets: start publishing photographs of the mutilated and destroyed bodies lying dead in the aftermath of mass shootings.
Who is being protected by not publishing the photographs? We are all becoming traumatized by these psychopaths and the Republicans who ensure their permanent and easy access to deadly weaponry.
We live in a society with mass murder going on, with lone citizens waging war against those they do not like. I doubt publishing pictures of bodies blown to bits by automatic weaponry will be any more traumatizing than living in America, but it could help persuade more people, and guilt and shame politicians into action.
12
Regulate guns for safety like cars!
1
Regulate guns for safety, like cars!
4
Survivors of the suspicious LV shooting were there??? What are the odds...
As long as there is country music played at public venues these people will be at risk.
How much longer must we howl into this wind?
6
Opioid addiction all thru the heartland. White nationalism is rearing is ugly face again and another mass shooting. It's easy to blame the Government for all of it and they do have their fair share to accept, but we the people have also failed by not dealing with these issues sooner. We have to hold people accountable.
3
Ownership of any semi-automatic weapon should require a special license and registration, regular interviews by trained professionals for renewal every 3-5 years, reporting of all ammo purchases and a regular mental health screening. Violators and illegal sellers should get stiff mandatory minimum sentences and be treated just as we do sexual predators, with life long registration and tracking. The rest of us are sick and tired of paying for your deadly toys, it’s high time that you all paid your fair share of the price for this ridiculous and deadly “hobby”.
15
Everyone had enough of this savagery?
3
Solution: Exchange all guns with rocks. They're almost the same thing, or so they say.
6
Amazing that even after all these incidents ... sensibe gun laws are not a priority for so many voters in this election
2
Living in Japan has made me take for granted being able to go to bars, nightclubs, concerts and other large public gatherings without having to worry about being murdered by a gun wielding lunatic. I'm a little worried about coming back to the states because it's so flooded with firearms. Complete madness.
8
We need to secure the border now to keep these violent criminals out of our country!!! Wait, he was a US citizen? Oh well, nothing to do here.
47
"Sheriff Dean said Mr. Long first shot a security officer outside the club ..."
That's allow we need to know to realize how terribly flawed the "good guy with a gun" promoted by the NRA really is.
There's no countering the element of surprise or strategically superior positioning.
Amendments were added to the Constitution to remedy its flaws, or anachronisms, which "to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" surely is.
19
As someone who lives not even 10 minutes away from Borderline, this is unreal. You may think that your community is safe, that it couldn't happen to you. Until it does, and the pictures you see in the article are of places you go to and pass every day. Please, everyone, stay safe and be kind today and always. Be prepared for this to happen in your community. I mourn for all the lives lost and pray for all of my friends who knew the victims.
18
I can shed some light on this from practical experience to help the police and the medical disciplines; When a person is angered, a normal human emotion, sometimes people are scared enough to think the worst may result, just based on the yelling that most often is fleeting and not indicative of a true mental illness, but once again, a normal human emotion. When the authorities are called, an institutionalized arrangement between the police and their government's hospital sends a team of screeners to assess the angry individual. When confronted by all those people, the angry person, once merely calmed down by cop in the past ways of conduct, now becomes strongly agitated by the teams presence and their mission, and as a result, the team makes the assessment that the angry individual is mentally ill, a false diagnosis predicated on the persons anger at seeing them. The subject feels cornered and becomes more angered leading to a trip to the hospital. That event festers in the minds of those who experience it, and a result is that the merely once angry subject then becomes truly paranoid and mentally ill, feeling severely victimized by society, and the result is events like that which happened last night in California.
When the cops and the crisis intervention teams stop treating mere anger as a mental illness with the result being a real illness, the violence will subside.
The fear of mentally ill is actually perpetuating it.
Stop the hospital railroad and the teams.
3
@Shakinspear
The low overhead cost mental health wings of government owned hospitals participate with the cops in rounding up angry people. Once in the hospital, they are told they are mentally ill and that results in a real mental illness they believe afflicts them. It really is a business, a profitable one for the hospitals that should not be.
The mental health sector of medicine is actually causal. The profit motive for hospitals is too much of an incentive to go unnoticed. Stop causing growing mental illness and you will slow the incidence of violence in society.
The case of Mr. Long is consistent with my writing. After having served in Afghanistan, he likely expected a warm American welcome and got none. He was a bitter man who became angry and further victimized by others questioning his state of mind. He lashed out.
Stop the hospital railroad.
2
Only action counts. Want to save lives? Learn first aid. Carry medical supplies.
"The leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 46 is trauma — a disabling or life-threatening physical injury that results from an event such as a motor vehicle crash, gun violence, or fall. In 2013, trauma cost approximately $670 billion in medical care expenses and lost productivity. Recognizing that the best strategy to reduce the considerable burden associated with trauma is to prevent injuries from occurring in the first place, the delivery of optimal trauma care when injuries do occur is a critical means of preventing unnecessary death and disability. Of the 147,790 U.S. trauma deaths in 2014, as many as 20 percent — or about 30,000 — may have been preventable after injury with optimal trauma care, the committee said."
Want to save lives? Stop smoking.
"Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day."
@C Wolf
If you die from lung cancer, it usually means your decision to smoke contributed to your death. There is no choice for victims of gun violence.
3
Wow. What a concept you've got there. So anybody can shoot anybody and it's the shoot-EE's responsibility to heal themselves. VICTIMS, HEAL THYSELF. I can see the signs now at each shooting.
There's a piece or two missing here , but you can get back to us with a few tighter plans.
It's such a wonderful concept carried over from the tobacco industry. I personally appreciate your tidy use of blame being totally targeted at the victims. It has a neat, resolved feel to it, doesn't it? and so fitting for the environment in which we currently live.
3
@C Wolf
Your comment is worse than nonsense. tobacco products are more heavily taxed and regulated than guns. More to the point, the gunman didn't go into the bar and light a cigarette, he walked into the bar and opened fire.
1
oh my gosh that poor man's grief is so devastating. Anyone who doesn't believe in even the simplest gun control needs to watch this video over and over and over again until they get it. I wish I could do something for him
9
Collectively the US is experiencing generalized anxiety disorder and it is driving damaged people over the edge.
Hopefully a calming presidential voice like Obama or Biden will be heard.
12
Possibly we anti gun guys are looking at the situation wrong. It is not a gov't problem of background checks, automatic weapons, easily obtained guns, poor registration, mentally disturbed people with guns, lobbyists handing out millions to politicians to promote freedom of use and purchase of guns, etc. etc. etc. Yes, it is no different than cars on the roads, running over people, etc. We don't blame the Porsche, or BMW, or Honda, or Mercedes, or Ford. We get cars, we get people run over. We get guns, we get people killed. Seems reasonable all of a sudden.
1
Sorry to say, but I barely registered this headline. Just another shooting. Like the one last week, and the one before that, and before that and before that... I can't get caught up in sorrow every day, every week, continuously. Mass shootings are a part of life in America, and that's how it will stay until Americans want it changed. No sign of that happening, so my response is just scan the headline, move on. Just another day's news.
6
When will our President realize that more people are threatened by random shooting than immigrants seeking asylum?
I guess shootings don't get 'the base' riled up enough...
11
The NRA and the gun-lobby MUST take a leadership-role and they MUST extend an olive-branch: immediate-online-mental-health-testing FOR ALL GUN-OWNERS, and barring that -- some realistic meaningful immediate step towards a solution to ending pre-meditated mass-murder by psycho's with guns who kill innocent people. The good-guy with a gun argument doesn't cut it.
The stricter-gun-laws-crowd MUST ALSO extend an olive-branch: meet the NRA / gun-lobby / 2nd-Amendment-advocates half-way and work on ways to both honor constitutional-rights, but at the same time not be so draconian as to relinquish cooperation towards a solution.
No more finger-pointing, no more blame-game, no more hopes and prayers for the dead and their loved ones.
We must come together as a nation on this issue NOW before anymore innocent lives are lost.
1
@Fortitudine Vincimus.
Your comment implies that the "stricter gun laws crowd" has never tried to sit down and have a reasonable conversation with the gun-rights nuts. Hogwash!
For many decades, the other side has refused to even sit down to discuss ANY kind of compromise! How can we "extend an olive branch" when they're sitting with their fingers in their ears, sticking out their tongues, like four-year-olds?!?!
(It's the same lie that the Rightists have spewed about Pres Obama not "willing" to "work with them"; they conveniently forgot McConnell's "one-term president" pledge.)
I'm sick and tired of these false equivalencies! We on the Left have TRIED to have reasonable conversations; but the Rightists insist that "compromise" means that they get their way, or they won't even talk with us.
We on the Left have never proposed (nor wanted) to "take away all their guns." They're the ones who've been making up the LIE that we're setting up a slippery slope ruse.
Sorry, I'm going to keep on blaming them, because they deserve the blame.
4
@Fortitudine Vincimus.
Nope. People generally don't need guns. The only solution is laws that ban gun ownership with available applications for exemption.
To own a gun one must prove a need, provide ID, buy insurance, and register the weapon. Anyone who is found in possession of an unlicensed gun should be imprisoned for at least 10 years. Anyone who is convicted of using a gun in any crime must be sentenced to life. As with a car registration for all gun registries must be renewed for the sale price of the weapon. Failure should result in an investigation. If the person failed to re-register their weapon they should be fined 4x the original cost of the weapon and be imprisoned for 12 days. Anyone who commits murder with any weapon, including their hands, must be sentenced to life.
All cops who shoot unarmed people must serve life in prison.
2
Terrible news from my hometown. There are reports of a raging fire that has just started in the Thousand Oaks area also. Two tragedies in one day. There are so many hard-working college students in TO working multiple jobs to get their degrees. Borderline is really one of the only places in the city for young people to go out and enjoy themselves after a busy week, making it a special sanctuary for the community. My heart goes out to all those affected.
100
@Alec Thank you for explaining the significance of the venue.
The ‘good guy with a gun’ approach to preventing gun violence ended in the tragic loss of a well respected officer... perhaps it is time to try the ‘keep guns off civilian streets’ approach that has been used for decades with much success all around the world. How many days until the next shooting?
35
The reason for the marine corps veteran's frustration and desperate act is a subject for study ,examine and provide essential health care to all war veterans who spent most of their service away from home in the battlefield.
7
I think this is the last one of these stories I'll look at. I'm not sure how the US carries on not reacting to this massacre. There is way more chance of being killed in one of these events than by a middle east terrorist. Perhaps the allocation of funds to and the concern of the population with this problem is a little inappropriate ?
15
As someone who was in Tower 2 in 9/11 I always harken back to that day when a new tragedy like this happens. It is so commonplace now, unlike 17 years ago when we all felt safer somehow. I am so sorry for the loss of innocent life today. My heart is with those that went into a bar for a moment's respite, and died. You mattered. You will always be loved.
11
So, it's one mass shooting every ten days now. That's not counting the minor mass shootings and the gun murders that barely get covered, if they get covered at all. It's the single defining characteristic of the land of the free, and for that we can thank the NRA and the GOP, who respect only ONE part of the Constitution - the Second Amendment. Now, Congress, how about remembering the rest of it and the citizens you are sworn to serve? Is this really how we are supposed to "live"?
20
Today is a very depressing and disturbing day but luckily I'm at home and good. This one shooting is beyond terrible but it is one of too many with no remedies in sight. Then we have a president that doesn't give a darn and cannot be depended upon and a Congress (both parties) who are not doing anything to solve this continuing carnage from guns.
Ann in Connecticut put what I'm feeling in her words. I thank her for that.
We may have a great economy and good employment figures per Trump but what about the other parts of our lives? Quality of life matters. Life matters; living matters; being unafraid matters.
11
The Vegas shooting should have made it clear that this country has entered into a much darker phase of nihilistic mass shootings. Especially when the only thing done as a result had to do with an aftermarket, third-party accessory, which only really serves to reduce the accuracy of a rifle.
All firearms are machines. Hence, they're all technically "machine guns."
I think Jimi Hendrix may have written a song about this.
3
The big elephant in the middle of the room has and will always be handguns and no one on either side of the aisle is willing to talk about handgun legislation.
8
Since the second amendment is used as an excuse to prevent real gun safety legislation, I’m calling my Senators and Congressman to ask them to sponsor a resolution to amend the Constitution to revoke the second amendment. I’m also calling my state legislators to pass a resolution asking the US congress to do this. Enough is enough.
12
Perhaps, if the congressmen were subjected to live like the rest of us- no metal detectors, police present at our meetings or yoga class, or kindergarten classrooms- and anyone can visit- they might feel differently. They should open their meetings to all living human beings and feel the stress and anxiety. Maybe, then—- they might do something.
12
As an American living in Europe, I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to live in a society where the only guns are double-barrel shotguns that hold two shells and are actually used for hunting.
When you see someone in a French film wildly chasing their unfaithful spouse with a 4-ft long weapon and you're thinking, Is this supposed to be ridiculous or serious? It's literally all the firepower violent men have, and what a wonderful difference it makes.
The gun fanatics claim you can't ever get all the guns, but I don't know. We got all the rocket propelled grenades it seems. Why should guns be harder?
13
And people wonder why so many Americans are taking antidepressants and anti anxiety medication. We don't feel safe at church, synagogue, dance club, school, movie theater, concerts, grocery stores. When will the common good outweigh the right to bear weapons of mass destruction?
I hope the young people who have been targeted lately will rise up and lead this country to common sense gun laws. The old guard sure aren't going to do anything.
17
Thoughts and Prayers. That comforts no-one. Instead of thoughts, how about some real action to limit gun ownership. Second, given there is no god, how about politicians actually doing something themselves rather than praying to a sky fairy to do something. Even if one believes in god, asking god to fix it isn’t going to work. It hasn’t before.
8
I think it's sad that innocent people died at the hands of someone who probably needed help himself. These articles like to focus on guns but the real issue is mental health and care for those who need it is not being addressed. This particular person probably experienced some horrible stuff. Things he had to do for our country and freedom. Yet, he wasn't cared for when he needed it. It's not a surprise that this happens as a result of that neglect.
@Antonio
"These articles like to focus on guns but the real issue is mental health and care for those who need it is not being addressed."
I respectfully beg to differ. Yours is one of the most frequent and most fallacious arguments sent out by the NRA. The shooter apparently needed help -- but he couldn't/wouldn't have created this "sad" situation, as you call it, where innocent people died, if he didn't have a gun.
Again, blaming mass gun murders on mental health is actually one of the specious arguments held up by the NRA and the gutless politicians who accept their blood-stained donations. (And by the way, you will not find any of the supporters of the NRA or the politicians whose pockets they line calling out for better mental health care!)
It is a deflection from the real issue: The NRA and the weapons and ammunition manufacturers work hand in hand: the NRA pays politicians to back off from any meaningful legislation, and everyone profits as gun sales fly through the roof.
The USA has about the same percentage of people with mental health issues as other developed countries that are not in the middle of a war.
But the USA is, along with only 6 other countries, responsible for more than half of the annual gun homicides on the planet.
Go figure . . . if it isn't about the proliferation of guns, and especially rapid fire guns intended for the battlefield, please explain what is causing these killings?
4
I also beg to differ, in that while it does seem that this particular shooter may well have needed mental health help,and some do, this is one of the biggest lies and reflections of the NRA and the politicians they have purchased, and statistically over many many years and validated, reputable studies, people with mental health issues are much much more likely to be victims of crime, especially violent crime, than to be the perpetrators, so in continuing the NRA’s and their cronies message about it being about mental health rather than guns, while these same lawmakers cut the services and funding that are proving mental health treatment and access to treatment and things like the expansions of Medicaid and the guarantees of coverage for pre-existing conditions that make it possible for many people to get treatment, they are reinforcing stigma and prejudice that is so prevalent in our society and makes it very difficult for anyone with a mental health condition to get good medical care (hence the fact that people with significant psychiatric diseases die 20 years younger even with other factors controlled for) or to get employment and so forth even if they have very good control and are very capable. This is just not okay. Please stop contributing to this. It is really really doing damage to many real people, and also contributing to people not seeking treatment who need it because of stigma. Thanks.
It is an insult to call Sgt Ron Helus a hero if people don't do anything about gun violence.
It is an blasphemous to people's God, whatever faith they are in, when they offer "thoughts and prayers" if they make lip service without actually follow through with action to stop gun violence which are within their means
It is downright uncivil to a law & order society if gun violence is allowed to occur at all, let alone on a weekly basis.
People stop mouthing off words they don't mean or they are either senseless or a hypocrite. Either has no say in society of people
5
California has among the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. What it doesn't have is a consistent concealed carry law which might have reduced the number of casualties in this case. I was a member of an HOA board in San Diego County and was threatened by an irate, irrational property owner in the development. I wanted to carry a hand gun to defend myself so I looked into County regulations. The application process was exceedingly expensive, lengthy and onerous. There was no guarantee you would be granted the right to carry and if you were rejected you would forfeit all the application fees. I was told by an informed source that the County Sheriff only gave out permits to his friends.
I'm not familiar with Ventura County regulations, but I suspect it's difficult to get a permit there also. The fact that a country and western bar did not have an armed patron (or several armed patrons) in it to confront this murderer, is disturbing.
We need to approach what appears to be the growing problem of mass killings in several ways. Two that come to mind: first, review all mental health laws as they relate to gun possession and give families more power to restrain potential violent individuals: second, reform concealed carry laws so law-abiding citizens who qualify can easily obtain a permit.
Gun control advocates need to understand that you can't disarm law-abiding citizens because if you try you will turn them into outlaws.
2
@Dougal E, did you actually read the article? There was armed deputy as well as a security guard at the venue. Both we killed. So no, we don't need more concealed carry licenses. What we need is common sense gun laws that ban assault weapons, bump stock and extended magazines like the one the shooter used in Thousand Oaks.
4
@statuteofliberty
I read every article. What you say is irrelevant. The killer had the element of suprise when he ambushed the guard, who was the first one killed. The deputy was shot because he did not know where the killer was, I would guess. The guy was trained to kill at close quarters in the military. The deputy did not know that or he might have been more careful. Regardless, none of that suggests that if there had been three or four armed patrons that at least one could have gotten a bead on the guy and shot him thus saving several lives.
The killer did not use an assault weapon, a description that technically does not include an AR 15 which is merely semi-automatic like any number of hunting rifles. Extended magazines are already illegal in California. I know that for certain because I have a Glock .45 and when I lived there I learned I could not buy one legally.
@Dougal E
You espouse NRA leader Wayne LaPierre's "good guy with a gun" theory, which law enforcement and military experts uniformly discredit as a myth, and in fact the path to increased chaos and confusion in an active shooter situation.
There is a wealth of research on the subject -- or as much as can be possible given that the N.R.A. pushed Congress in 1995 to stop the C.D.C. from spending taxpayer money on research that advocated gun control, and which had showed that bringing a gun into the home didn't make a family safer, but increased the chance of violence. The Dickey Amendment in 1996 cut funding that effectively ended the C.D.C.’s study of gun violence as a public health issue.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-m-army-veteran-gun-owner-good-guy-gun-theory-ncna821976
https://abcnews.go.com/US/breaking-nra-backed-theory-good-guy-gun-stops/story?id=53360480
The FBI has also conducted its own research on the effectiveness of the "good guy" in active shooter incidents and came up with the same conclusion.
Other studies, and law enforcement experience, warn that the "good guy with the gun" in active shooter situations, especially in darkened theaters or other crowded situations, like bars and clubs, simply interferes with the ability of law enforcement to identify the "bad guy" and may in fact cause more deaths.
You say you read "every article" -- but perhaps you should do some of your own research and add some facts to your convictions.
1
A radio commentator earlier today assured listeners that an act of terrorism had been ruled out. A man walks in with an automatic weapon and murders people, unprovoked. How is this not terrorism?
10
The United States of America is a nation that proportionally has even a great many of unmatched achievements it can be proud of.
But one thing is for certain, the experiment, in relation to the right of citizens, those of the U.S.A. to bear arms, as the Second Amendment of the nation of the same constitution provides for, has proved to be a complete failure. So much so that it has become an unprecedented monstrous, uncontrolled, corrosive and societal problem as high gun circulation in the U.S., with rapidity, continues to undeniably be an existential threat to the nation as a whole.
Fatal shots pumped into the bodies of least 12 bar patrons and a sheriff’s deputy; many others injured, some of them catastrophically so, in a mass shooting at a country and western dance hall in Thousand Oaks, Calif, in the late evening of November 7, 20018, less than five days after eleven other people were killed in a fusillade at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, in the state of Pennsylvania, the latest mass shooting, as were the untold number of the same barrages of bullets before, a continuing affirmation that the experiment, one of the right to keep and bear arms is the people's right to possess weapons for the defense
4
The United States of America is a nation that proportionally has even a great many of unmatched achievements it can be proud of.
But one thing is for certain, the experiment, in relation to the right of citizens, those of the U.S.A. to bear arms, as the Second Amendment of the nation of the same constitution provides for, has proved to be a complete failure. So much so that it has become an unprecedented monstrous, uncontrolled, corrosive and societal problem as high gun circulation in the U.S., with rapidity, continues to undeniably be an existential threat to the nation as a whole.
Fatal shots pumped into the bodies of least 12 bar patrons and a sheriff’s deputy; many others injured, some of them catastrophically so, in a mass shooting at a country and western dance hall in Thousand Oaks, Calif, in the late evening of November 7, 20018, less than five days after eleven other people were killed in a fusillade at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, in the state of Pennsylvania, the latest mass shooting, as were the untold number of the same barrages of bullets before, a continuing affirmation that the experiment, one of the right to keep and bear arms is the people's right to possess weapons for the defense of democracy against dictatorship, has miserably failed – a monumental failure.
2
is it enough now? is this one enough? Is it time to change gun laws this day? Or do we wait for another and another and another?
4
This administration is instilling fear, rather effectively I might add, that the people marching though Mexico are armed, dangerous, and possibly terrorists.
Why isn't anybody just as effective in saying anything about the home grown nuts and domestic terrorists in this country?
8
Yet again.
And so soon again.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
It's lunacy. Will it ever end?
9
Hey Trump Supporters,
Tell us again about how Colin Kaepernick is the real threat to our freedoms.
23
I m not getting used to see or hear. Scared and very sad. Mad world.
1
Republicans must be removed from office and sensible and modern gun control laws must be passed, especially with focus on assault and semi automatic weapons.
9
Mental health professional previously talked to this former member of the military and deemed he was not a threat to others or himself. This underscores the challenges of mental health screenings overall to always or nearly always make the right call. There will no doubt be the same chorus response from gun rights advocates calling for better access to mental health screenings and arming more "good" people with guns which is the standard NRA response. The gun problem in America seems insurmountable when a sizable majority of (mostly) Republican legislatures in Washington seem only capable of issuing thoughts and prayers and never willing to pass any gun control legislation that would attempt to prevent more of these mass shootings. It is a situation rendered absolutely hopeless by a feckless GOP. What is especially maddening in the gun control debate is that survey after survey show a majority of Americans, including gun owners, want sensible national gun control laws. Republicans do absolutely nothing other than tow the line of the NRA and promise to defend the second Amendment at all costs. These same Republicans continue to be re-elected and nothing changes. The situation is hopeless.
13
@Jeff
Yes, good points. I perform these sorts of assessment routinely and in every single experience of suspecting homicidal ideation toward others, a 24 hour hold is put in place to get the individual onto a psychiatric unit for further assessment and treatment. The psychiatrist must then appeal to a judge for further commitment, which is usually set in increments of 30, 60, 90 days, etc., in the State of Utah where I reside. I believe laws for involuntary commitment are similar in most states.
The problem is: folks with these disorders, specifically anti-social disorders, narcissistic disorders, do not believe they need treatment. They lie during assessments. They are treatment resistant. They often do not interact with behavioral health specialists until something happens. In short, you are right, psychiatrists, social workers, and mental health court judges cannot prevent these tragedies - but they can be prevented.
90 day background checks, bans on the deadliest assault weapons, penalizing gun manufacturers, placing armed officers at schools and universities, closing the private sale and gun show loophole, limiting magazine capacity, and requiring psychosocial assessments as a requisite for gun ownership, can all help prevent these tragedies.
6
I truly thought, hoped, that after Sandy Hook, things would
change, but sadly they have not.
How can the death of so many people, including those beautiful little children, mean so little and not cause change.
The reason, I believe is this country is just too darn large. Some of our largest states, my own included, have larger populations than those of our European relatives.
Still, how 2 million (estimated membership) NRA members, gun manufacturers and lobbyists can control and prevent
change from happening is mind-boggling at best.
I grew up in the 60's and the lyrics from CSN's Chicago, keep playing in my head these days.. "In a land that's known as freedom how can such a thing be fair..it's dying to get better...It's dying - if you believe in justice"
We desperately need a new wave of civic unrest to push forward change..
12
why is it so hard
to crosscheck the list of mental patients/households
against the gun ownership list,
and either remove the gun from the patient
or remove the patient from public access
8
@Bob, mentally ill people are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime, than the perpetrators of it.
"Take the guns away from the crazies!" won't solve the problem of mass shootings.
2
It's depressing when this happens in California with a seemingly legal firearm (although the magazine might not have been) given the state's very strict gun laws and I assume some on the right will use this to argue that gun laws are ineffective.
The old "criminals don't obey the law" line.
But the statistics don't lie. The CDC firearm mortality map for 2016 bears a striking resemblance to the 2016 electoral college map. Red states have much higher firearm mortality rates than blue states. That data is skewed a little because the very rural states tend to have higher suicide rates, but even excluding firearm suicides, gun death rates are higher in the South than anywhere else.
I'd settle for assault weapons being legal if the compromise would be that firearms were uniformly difficult but legal to obtain nationwide. Here is Massachusetts firearm ownership requires licensing and training. Most folks could buy a firearm if they so choose, but it would take time and effort. Not surprisingly, Massachusetts has the lowest rate of firearms deaths in the nation.
Meanwhile, in most of the country, purchasing a firearm is as easy is swinging by a gun shop (or Walmart) on a whim!
7
A first trained responder with a gun, who knew what he was facing and wasn’t taken by surprise, was gunned down and killed. A good guy with a gun, who also cares about preserving the lives of those around him, can’t easily match a shooter who doesn’t, making the whole “good guy with a gun” NRA argument moot.
Not only is the public at risk every day from our out of control access to guns, but so are our first responders. Any politician who says he supports our police and first responders but who stands with the NRA against gun safety should be called out as a liar and hypocrite.
32
NEWS FLASH!
The President will do nothing
9
So which is a bigger threat to life in the US? Desperate asylum seekers or unstable white men with guns?
20
CA has tight gun laws... the laws may well prevent worse massacres, but we have to acknowledge that tight laws alone won't stop all. But stopping some is certainly worthy.
1
This is who we are now, it seems.
Thanks, NRA.
2
Do you know what gets me about this shooting? That when the news broke, when the next days papers came out, the story wasn't the headline. I acknowledge that the story was on the front page, but not the headline. In America, this news isn't new anymore.
1
Mourning in America...again.
7
just keep repeating, "now is not the time to talk about gun control", "now is not the time to talk about gun control", "now is not the time to talk about gun control"
1
if everyone had a gun... maybe silencers would make it better. how bout it NRA? you want silencers or just all the people without guns to be silent.
1
Does anyone remember that, way back when--oh, at least two and a half years ago--we had a president who would speak out about these heinous acts of murder, who--often with tears in his eyes--would try to console us, and who would then pledge to and really, really try to do something to begin curb gun violence? You know, it was that time back when America actually was kinda great? Four slaughters in two weeks and not a peep from the current president and his band of merry NRA-bought Republican men.
15
Trumps only concern is 'was the shooter an illegal'. If it doesn't suit his agenda, then he remains silent
6
Sure. And what did all those pretty words accomplish?
I for one am shocked that in a country where any uneducated neanderthal can get any firearm they want at any time that these things happen. And for the morons of the "well a good guy with a gun will save everyone" argument, how exactly do we determine who are the "good ones" and the "bad ones". I speculate just send a membership check to the NRA and you become a "good guy"? Nauseating. When this country falls flat on its face for the last time and is stepped on and over by China, you will only need to look in the mirror to see who caused it.
16
Its not part of a a regular week in America? From Canada, we barely pay attention to theses butcheries south of our border since it became so common. It seems to have become a sport for you, like baseball or something... Gunball?
Since you do nothing to solve this, wich clearly seems to be a collective pathology, its nearly a non issue. Not worth front page.
29
Agree entirely. Yes it's a bit embarrassing to be observed by others while we are committing national suicide. Our tradition is violence from the indigenous people genocide at the start of our nation to our mass killings in the Middle East in present day.
4
@Tristan Roy
Rude comment fellow Canadian, esp. if any survivors or family of survivors read it.
As for this Canadian, I do pay attention and I implore every American that they do not go numb, that they pay attention, and that they mobilize and fight this monster that is tearing your country apart. Start with the NRA and all politicians that take their money. Challenge the paranoia and fear fanned by Fox News.
4
@Tristan Roy
The Democrats are trying to pass sensible gun control laws... the Republicans and the NRA are doing everything to impede such efforts. A large majority of citizens want this to stop but there is a very vocal minority of pro gun activists who are ok with the killings.
6
How much longer are we going to pretend these clowns protect "our freedoms"? America has way more mentally-ill, buzz-cut, PTSD "heroes" running around with their gun fetishes than scary brown terrorists. I'd take any Muslim over a conservative NRA military veteran.
23
Thoughts and prayers...wayne lapierre
5
1 bad guy with gun + many good guys with guns = 12 dead. Next dumb idea, NRA?
13
Who let this terrorist into the United States? Maybe we should be banning white guys with guns, rather than Honduran women and children.
25
Was it MS-13? No.
Was it the reporter? No.
Was it an Islamic terrorist? No.
Was it a Mexican drug lord? No.
Was it a Bad Guy from the invading caravan? No.
Was it a Muslim? No.
Was it an angry Black man? No.
Was it the white guy next door? Yes.
47
To this Democratic Congress: Every time there's a mass shooting you need to put a bill in front of that idiot in the oval office and tell him to sign.
Also tell him that every day he does not and decides to party down at his rallies babbling about how great the second amendment is, he has failed the victims and their families; actually, he has failed us all.
He is a disgrace.
20
NRA should be:
No
Rifles
America
11
@Anon
To be + precise:
No
Revolvers
America (United States of), America is encompassing many more countries.
Now, AGAIN AND AGAIN: Let's assume we stop selling execution tools completely. Who, when, where and how will all those 350 Million "pieces" will be taken of private hands....together with several zillion rounds of ammunition?
How was this done at the time of cowboys with waist holders roaming around and solving any petty confrontation with a shooting barrage?
Something tells me that the USA is approaching reckoning time.
Talking about time! Let's welcome the extinction by global warming that is relentlesly moving closer and closer while we deal with our own boiling frogs petty experiment!
Definitely: after all we are doing to decimate life in this floating blue dot in space with 200 species daily, we bipeds do not deserve one more minute here.
Fox News feeds overblown fears of gangs and terrorism and people buy more and more guns to arm themselves. The fear builds and anger transforms to paranoia and rage. Eventually someone in a fragile mental state snaps. Fox News, the NRA and all the politicians who receive $$ from the NRA have blood on their hands. It's a $$ making machine and regular citizens are murdered because of it.
Shame on the NRA. Shame on Fox News. Shame on any politician who uses NRA money to gain power.
13
Let's add to the blame list those who started all the Middle Eastern wars since 9/11. GWB deserves a nod.
2
These stories never answer an essential question: why was the FBI out so soon and under what specific authority was this made a federal affair? We have law enforcement in California. We have Crime labs. We have courts. These are Californian victims of a California Crime. Why does the FBI have to come in? Who invited them and why? Why is this not under the Thousand Oaks PD, Ventura County Sheriff, and California Attorney General? The FBI came out too fast and have no legal right to be there.
It's also very interesting because Thousand Oaks is right up the street from Woodland Hills which is where Gian Luigi Ferri lived in 1993 before the 101 California Shooting. For all the comments about "this would have dominated headlines thirty years ago" it did dominate headlines thirty years ago. It became a big political event. The FBI's presence makes me fear it will again. They are the Political Police, after all.
There is too much information being given out to ensure the integrity of the investigation. If Mr. Long had issues, the authorities need to withhold information so that witnesses can come forward with information known only to them.
I'm not suggesting a false flag or anything, but I am suggesting the authorities and media are politicizing and distorting facts at a cost of justice to the victims and to the truth.
Normal, sane people need to take over this argument and get the guns off the street . . . America needs gun control and it needs it now. The NRA is not your friend . . . it is the enemy
10
Stories like this one prove over and over again that the shooting itself is nothing more than a final statement of despair before a final exit. Taking others with the shooter is an underscore.
The real problems behind such things are not the guns but the failure of the system to truly help people in despair and the failure of the system to look after its own citizens in the first place.
Getting rids of guns would be wonderful but it will never happen in this lifetime. Then what of the precursor issues?
2
Gee, if only something could be done. *shaking my head*
2
Don't worry: President Trump's thoughts and prayers are with you.
14
Agreed.
I am also a Christian. And I believe prayer changes the person praying. Prayer does not change God.
I pray for God's grace so that I have the
strength to take action to right this wrong.
2
Just want to ask an honest question of Trump's "evangelical Christian" supporters. How many guns does Jesus recommend that you have? Thank you in advance for your feedback.
13
I’d be curious to know whether the NRA, as a multi-million-dollar organization whose access to contributions is virtually unlimited, ever provides any sort of help -- financial or otherwise -- to families victimized by gun violence such as those involved in today’s shooting in Thousand Oaks.
I have a strong hunch that the answer is no, but I try to be fair to everybody, including the NRA.
9
@A. Stanton, at least a coupon for a discount on any gun purchase. The Mr. Long I saw pictured here in the paper did not have horns nor use a semi-automatic rifle, just apparently a legally acquired handgun in a strictly controlled gun state and a hatred for himself and the world. Losing sight of that to partisan politics is a blindness for us all.
All we get from our Lawmakers and the White House, again and again and again is: "Our hearts and prayers are with the victims,,,,," "Our hearts and prayers are with the victims,,,,," "Our hearts and prayers are with the victims,,,,," and so on! I am disgusted that this country is held hostage to the NRA. Now we will hear, "more guns are needed...", more guns are needed " again and again
10
Mental health! Just because a former soilder can walk doesn’t mean he doesn’t need a helping hand.
1
Mental illness will once again be blamed for this horrific mass murder.
How many more tragedies involving killers who were assessed by mental health practitioners prior to their murderous rampages have to occur before this gun loving country finds another excuse to ignore the truth that guns kill and our laws are deficient.?
A preliminary list of prior mental health encounter involved mass shootings:
Virginia tech 33 dead
Sandy hook. 28 killed
Parkland. 17 murdered
3
Rest in Peace to all The Departed killed last night at the Thousand Oaks CA club massacre, It's been just over a year since the 1 October Mandalay Bay Massacre here in Las Vegas, in which 58 people were shot to death in 11 minutes. We the "People for Public Safety Coalition" offer suggestions to improve safety:
--Require as a condition of bail/bond/probation/parole all persons charged with and/or convicted of any violent offense to wear a GPS tracking device linked to a public website so we can monitor and track them 24/7.
--Photograph all persons receiving "tickets" or "citations" for all violations of the law, including "minor" offenses Photos will be placed on a website accessible to the public.
-- Provide better lighting, more surveillance cameras, and public restroom facilities including hand washing facilities in all neighborhoods.
--Provide more community police, "cops on the beat," who know the people in their assigned neighborhood and can work with citizens to promote public safety with neighborhood watch and other efforts.
--Congress should renew its previous (1994-2004) ten-year ban on assault rifles, which was supported by Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and upheld by the US Supreme Court. Even during the days of the Wild West certain guns were restricted to military, not civilian, use, as explained in Sam Peckinpah's film, "The Wild Bunch."
3
I’m sickened to realize that these events no longer shock me but have become the relatively new normal of the American experience.
305
@Discerning
Indeed, I was thinking they're so common now I don't even remember the names of anyone involved anymore.
Anyone sending thoughts and prayers, try doing something to enact gun control instead, do something that might matter.
29
@Discerning
Sadly, I have the same 'routine' thoughts. This morning I was awoken by what I thought was the dim light and buzz of my phone's alarm. Rather, it was breaking news alerts from NYT, NPR & CNN. I shook my wife awake and asked her, "Guess what's in the news?" She answered, "Another shooting." No question mark.
28
@Ronald Frump
[[I was thinking they're so common now I don't even remember the names of anyone involved anymore.]]
You probably also don't remember any of the phone numbers stored in your phone, but you do remember the landline phone number of the house you grew up in.
I suppose you could get the names of all mass shooting victims tattooed on your body, though I don't know what that would signify or accomplish.
The victims' names can be googled. If you want to give money or time to them, just do it.
But don't waste time whining about this abstraction that you don't remember the names of dozens of people who were killed months apart in cities hundreds of miles from where you live.
Mr. President, I'm asking this question for Jim Acosta, "When are you going to approach the NRA about changing the gun laws in this country?"
9
He needs to resign now! I don't like to spell his name on my computer.He and every Republican or politician who gets a dime from the NRA its time for you to go!
Our Nation's young people go to school each and everyday with the threat of a violent gun ending their young lives. No SANE American thinks this is normal. No teacher, doctor or rabbi can defend their people. No Republican senator or congressman cares as long as the NRA fills their campaign's coffer.
No highly developed country has thousands of citizens murdered by gun toting nut jobs as we do.
No highly developed country has a leader that promotes violence at "campaign rallies".
11
seems a bit ironic that this occurred at a place called the Borderline.
1
Last night 12 people were killed at a bar shooting in CA. Someone else was killed in FL today from a dispute over loud music. Arming everyone is not working, more are dying routinely. All of this just days after the synagogue shooting and those two people who were simply shopping at the grocery store and killed in NE. We cannot continue to ignore this, will you or someone you love, be next?
4
The republican solution: "Thoughts and Prayers"
1
This was with a hangun. Just goes to show AR-15's are not the only thing that can be used. If California had better gun laws like texas does maybe a passerby could have ended it before it got to the place it did
3
@Doug It was a handgun with a magazine extender.
Here we go again - Ground Hog Day
"Thoughts and Prayers..... Thoughts and Prayers"
"More guns for good guys to take down bad guys"
Rinse and Repeat
4
you're right. When the Republicans have those minutes of silence in Congress, I just can't understand what must be going through their heads.
Here's my compromise with gun rights advocates (NRA): When mental health is cured and no longer present in society, then you can have your guns back.
3
This is getting as macabre and common
as the next TV comercial
1
Guess we will need to revise the US Flag code to require a Presidential order when flags are to be flown at full staff!
7
Thoughts and prayers from the NRA and 45. Then they move on complaining about a caravan.
3
Meanwhile at nra.org
"Shooting? What shooting?
"Hey, think about the fact that gun control is the slippery slope into Communism and the abrogation of all your freedom!"
Apparently a dozen or so deaths because some nut case equipped his 45 with an expanded magazine?
A small price to pay for 2nd Amendment freedoms!
1
guns for everyone, all the time, everyhere -- what did you expect would happen?
6
Gee, if only they had an armed guard at the door...oh, wait....
7
Repeatedly seeing pictures of crying people hugging after these slaughters reminded me of Neil Young’s song about the Kent State killings, “what if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?”
2
When you teach people to kill, as in the Marines or any of the armed forces, they kill. The chickens have come home to roost. How about stopping the legal killing committed by the US armed forces? Get out of the Middle East? But this is too sensible, simple, sane... And, think for yourself?
NRA: Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. WRONG! People with access to guns kill people.
9
Just another American exercising his second amendment rights. Nothing to see here folks. Just move on.
5
Another day, another mass gun slaughter. #AmericanAcceptualism
2
The right to bear arms has become your worst nightmare, Americans.
Will you do something about it, or are you an empire in total decline? You currently look like the latter days of Rome, America... at this rate you won't exist as a country in a hundred years.
5
is it time to start calling these "mass shootings" what they really are: MASS MURDERS? and the "shooters" who commit them, MASS MURDERERS?
6
Everybody who's not paid by the NRA and who believes that the right to life, liberty and happiness includes the right not to be shot, raise your hand. We are in the majority and need to use that leverage. As with so many other challenges, other countries have the answers. If we refuse to learn we are exceptional, all right. Exceptionally stupid.
7
@kathy
If Belfast could end their "troubles" there is hope for all countries with nearly insurmountable issues. There must be a will though. Even if that will comes from a terrible feeling of hopeless sadness. Don't go numb people. Fight! Raise your hand if you want to fix this problem and start working.
2
This happens because politicians are spineless. Wonder how much the NRA gave them during the midterms to keep them silent and do nothing? You can bet it was millions and millions.
19
@The 1%
Of course; follow the money.
1
We don't have stricter gun laws because of the NRA's monetary influence in Washington. First address that issue, then the rest will follow. Americans are sick and tired of these senseless killings!
If you want to address violence in America perhaps it's time to set monetary limits on the money lobbyists can throw at politicians and get the NRA out of those beds!!
17
Has it only been two weeks since the last shooting?
How many people have died due to gun violence?
How many people are grieving?
How can people who are pro-life love the NRA?
Why is there no effort to fix this?
Why blame immigrants when it seems most murders are caused by angry white men who grew up in your own country?
Is the USA in crisis?
20
The Tallahassee shooting of the yoga studio happened 6 days ago. :(
9
I live near the university of Ottawa.I have never seen so many dorms being built.I think a lot of this is for foreign students who are choosing Canada instead of the United States.Probably the parents feel it is safer for their kids to be in Canada.
22
@richard addleman I think you're right about that. We have friends in Spain who decided not to send their kid to school here for that reason, and I don't blame them a bit. I myself feel safer in Canada than I do here!
7
One question.
Where was the good guy with a gun?
3
@Futbolistaviva California gun laws make it practically impossible for there to be a good guy with a gun present at any shooting. See the related article on California's gun laws. It would be unlikely for concealed carry to be approved for anyone in that bar under California law.
Once again ,with another senseless killing , the people that are so pro guns will honor the dead , wounded and their families with words of sympathy and prayers . I wonder if they could ever put themselves in those people's position of misery and mourning would they begin to think and see differently . I can only pose the question but I truly doubt that pro guns people would have such love for humanity over their love of guns !
4
270 million guns in this country and more mass shootings than anywhere else. The answer isn't "more guns." What lunacy that nothing is being done to legislate this.
10
See and act on this list of Congressmen and women who take large donations from the NRA: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
(Sorry, the list is about 1 yr old)....
The NRA essentially controls much of Congress....and people commenting that the government should "do something"...? This is why it won't.
8
This country is in the grips of NRA. The NRA can cloak themselves in the flag but they are no patriots.
15
In any story on a gun crime, you should always name the full make and model of the gun used. It is important that people see the companies involved.
7
And any drunk driving fatality, name the bar they came from, the type of alcohol
involved, the name brand of the alcohol, the year, make and model of the car, how many horsepower, how many tickets the driver has had, who his driver's ed teacher was, what size, brand and condition his tires were, who worked on his car.......
Republicans will pretend to care about mental health care for another 15 minutes. What fine words. What fine, hollow, dishonest words.
10
I will not bother reading the well meaning comments about this week's mass shooting because they're roughly the same as the comments after the last shooting and the one before that and the one before and the one before that etc. etc. etc. No it will never be enough as far as the NRA, cowardly politicans and the gun nuts are concerned. There could be a mass shooting a day and they wouldn't budget on their sacred right to easily buy and carry guns in public. My question is why do they run the show?
6
Let's keep invoking the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment because that seems to work so well for us!!!
Unbelievable! How much longer are we going to put up with these shooting? America, aren't you sick of this by now? Wake up and change the law!
10
Yeah D. We'll make it safe, just like Chicago.
How many who send thoughts and prayers also thank God for the Second Amendment?
3
@Aspirant
Exactly.. and tell themselves they are pro-life. These things are incompatible. It is getting crazier and crazier.
5
There is no
safe place in
America.
11
Just another angry, deranged individual exercising his god-given rights to snuff out a bunch of innocents-- and destroy the lives of who knows how many more. No surprise, he used a gun and lots of bullets.
Anyone know which well-regulated militia he joined after leaving the military?
13
All these killers are members of a well controlled militia to protect us and themselves against the government. Sorry, nothing can be done, it’s their right. And this right overrules the right to live and be able to walk around unharmed in public space.
7
Repeal the Second Amendment.
8
As a kid taking religious classes I heard so much about Sodom and Gomorra, never fully understanding what happened there but still giving me nightmares. Now I know: it was America.
9
@rudolf, remember, don’t look back.
2
Dear Americans,
Why don’t you stop the endless chatter theorizing about the “rights” guaranteed by the 2nd amendment, discussing whether “guns kill people” or “people kill people”, philosophizing about the idea of arming teachers, etc.
You Americans are clueless. Study what other countries, which have very low rates of gun deaths, are doing and not doing and implement some drastic changes.
I’m sure you won’t though. If it wasn’t done after Sandy Hook then sorry to say you clearly prefer the grievance to the remedy.
35
Sadly, this will soon go from a bi-weekly occurrence to weekly. Gathering live together in masses will have to be made to occur by computer in a virtually generated means to secure our own personal safety and preserve life. Houses of worship, live concerts, shopping malls/centers, dance halls etc. will all become relics of the past as we hurl into this new dystopian era.
6
Sadly nothing will change. These horrid mass murders will continue to infest this country and our elected officials will ask us to pray and within a week of all the dead being buried it will be back to normal.
So if one more person asks us to pray or says they have the families of those killed or maimed by a PREVENTABLE crime I will tell them to take their prayers and replace them with serious action!
When the second amendment was created they use muskets! Not firearms like today, that can shoot bullets so fast, and magazines that hold a dozen or more bullets. Bullets whose ONLY prupose is to KILL!
10
As long as the antiquated second amendment is too important to half of the people in the USA, one should be immune to this kind of news. Also, one has to prepare for the truth that they are the next in line, anytime, anywhere!
6
2 good guys with a gun where there,
Both shot one of them dead..
It made No Difference..
11
I wonder when it will happen to me. A victim of gun violence. Will it happen when I go to the movies on Friday nights? Or when I go to Yoga Sunday mornings? Or as I'm picking fruit at my grocery store? Or maybe at my favorite coffee shop. Maybe at the karaoke bar, the library, Target or Best Buy, the park, the beach, neighborhood farmer markets, concert halls, gym, restaurants or gas station. Where will it happen? The true question is not if, but when.
13
Home security system is there to avoid that may-not-even-happen robbery. If somebody breaks into your house still, will you still trust the security system?
My father used to say: When some break into your house first time - that is an incidence - happens the second time - a coincidence - happens the third time - well, whoever is stealing is not climbing a wall - he is among us.
Wall not fix this. Better gun laws will.
5
Thoughts and prayers are not enough anymore...this mass shootings need a solution.
Washington, are you listening?
3
"She said she saw him quickly reload his gun and fire again. “He knew what he was doing,” she said. “He had perfect form.”
Our political leaders had better think twice before sending other's kids off to war, especially war's of choice.
4
Just because you were in Afghanistan and bought an extended clip does not mean that your tour of duty "damaged" you. And just because at a disturbance, which I hear that the deputies called it much more than a disturbance, in which they called in a MH professional, does not mean you are mentally ill or that mental illness has anything to do with anything; and in fact, killing yourself after you murder a dozen and more with your gun is actually a somewhat logical move, given where you are going to be and who you will be with for the rest of your life.
1
Over and over again we lose someone's son,daughter,husband,wife etc.to the violence of guns. I'm fatigued by the shootings and death and still no gun laws change. Why do we honor the right to bear arms over everyone else's safety? Possibly the shooter was a victim of PTSD, having fought in Afghanistan.We've also failed our veterans,using them up to fight an endless war, only to leave them floundering when they come back home pyschologically damaged. If we don't CHANGE SOMETHING, we must accept that this kind of mass murder will continue.
9
Even if guns were outlawed all together. It would only disarm the law abiding citizens. With constant border crossings, guns could easily be supplied to the black market. The War on Drugs isn't enough. Now we'd have the War on Guns too. A person with intent will find one.
1
Look to countries that have sensible gun control- they do not have mass shootings. After a horrific mass shooting in 1996, Australia banned military style automatic weapons. This in a land of tough, self reliant people who don’t care much for government regulation. But Australians put the right to live without fear of being gunned down by someone with an assault rifle ahead of their right to have assault weapons. My hope is that the citizens of our wonderful country come to the same conclusion.
3
"The attack in Las Vegas — and the mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla., in February....also came less than two weeks after a gunman massacred 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh....The rampage in Thousand Oaks, ....was the deadliest shooting in Southern California since 14 people were killed in a terrorist attack in San Bernardino, Calif., in 2015."
Notice how only one of these is called a "terrorist attack." And hmmm, it's the only one not done by a white man.
How we talk about these events is crucial and this rhetorical distinction is an egregious oversight on the part of the authors' of this article. (Unless it was purposeful...)
9
The constitution guarantees the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. With this tragedy and the countless others that occur on a daily basis in this country from gun violence, these rights are under assault. Liberty means not just "freedom to" (e.g. own a gun) but "freedom from" (e.g. gun violence). I want to, and have the right to, live in a society "free from" gun violence. The rights of gun owners are not superior to mine. But because of craven politicians and their gun lobby puppet masters, their rights have bulldozed my right and that has to stop. Gun ownership need to be severely curtailed.
8
OK, we have over 330 million guns in this country. We obviously cannot get rid of them at this point. The obvious solution? Stop the sale of bullets.
7
It is beyond depressing, but nothing is going to change as long as so many Americans value their guns more than the lives of innocent young adults or children.
Since so many in our current world value money-- Hold gun manufacturers liable. Make gun owners take out insurance or risk having their guns confiscated. You need insurance to drive a car. You should have insurance to legally own a gun.
8
Trump has managed to convince far too many of our electorate that the biggest threat looming over this nation’s security is an approaching caravan of migrants, hundreds of miles away. We are urged to cower and hide under our beds and be afraid of these invaders, who are coming here to rape, pillage, and murder.
In the meantime, while the “far too many” are preoccupied with wanting to keep foreigners out and the fear of being murdered or blown up by illegal aliens and Muslims, they don’t seem to care or have much to say about the ever-increasing number of victims losing their lives at the hands of fellow citizens with guns.
8
I've been shot.
My father was killed by a gun.
Both involved mental illness.
Get it now?
1
I am waiting to see the first comment with the phrase: "(g)uns don't kill people, people kill people." No, it's "crazy people with guns kill people."
1
First Vegas. Now Thousand Oaks. I wonder when Trump, the NRA, and the other right-wingers will start decrying this epidemic of "white on white" violence?
4
Gee, it's Thursday. Of course there was another mass shooting. It's America after all.
Don't like my dreadful sarcasm? Prove me wrong. Lets go a year without one of these. 6 months. A month even?
Either the NRA and it's purposeful misreading of the 2nd Amendment goes or our pathetic, barely hanging on, sense of security - which erodes further day by day, goes. We can't have both.
Corruption on a corporate-industrial scale sells you, me and every victim, past, present and future, of these shootings down the river everyday. The takers of NRA money would sell their own children and aging parents for a piece of fudge.
8
police were called into this mans home before... and sent for mental health evaluation... even if 'they' said he was ok, at the point of any hint or police called in...for anyone, that person should not be eligible for to purchase a gun and all weapons should be confiscated,.... I am so sick of this protecting the second amendment...WE HAVE A RIGHT TO FEEL SAFE... this happens too often, and those who slaughter have always had police called in at another time... ENOUGH
5
If I hear one more politician make the worthless insulting phrase “our hopes and prayers are....”, I’m going to vomit. I’m done with platitudes. Congress do something besides fight each other and collect taxpayer money.
3
Thirty year ago this would have dominated headlines for a year. Now, it will be out of the news cycle in a few days. We have become numb — numb to violence, numb to facts, numb to basic decency and common sense. More guns do not make a society safer; they simply make it more prone to gun violence. If you can't see that, I don't really know what to say.
648
@Henry
Yes, America will wring its hands, and then sit on them .. once again.
31
@JH it's not about the guns it's the person ... what drove him to this? They gun didn't make him want to kill.. that's throwing accountability to the wind.
1
@Henry. Educated, prosperous, secular, democratic, employed societies are safer and more civil. They can even have some guns and be relatively civil and safe. As we become more stratified by race, economics, language, politics, we have no real connection and have no interest in each other's welfare.
17
The real tragedy is our governments continued failure to address these issues in any meaningful way.
By i am passing on my thoughts and prayers.
3
I have an abundance if ideas on how to ameliorate our gun problem. Let’s start with an aggressive buy-back program. Yes, it will take a $1 trillion to get it down a bit but add this to more reasonably rigid laws, we may get somewhere.
6
@James Arendt
Try it. After a while you'll notice the number of guns brought in for sale starts to shrink. That's because the more you remove from the market the ones still out there become more valuable. Unless you're prepared to be competitive on price they'll go to the highest bidder.
Information is provided about whether the murder weapon was legally acquired. In this case, as in many other mass (and less than mass) shootings it was. So -- what does this mean? To me it means that much stricter gun control is needed so that no one including murders (very few of gun owners) and non-murders (vast majority of gun owners) will have such easy access to lethal weapons.
I live in New Zealand. Here it is legal to own all manner of firearms including hand guns and semi-automatic weapons. The process to obtain a firearms license is complex and if fully explained would use up all the remaining 870 characters I have left. A safety course is required; one must pass a written test; an application is made to the police; there is a personal interview including a home visit to check for acceptable secure storage; family and referees are interviewed privately; and different levels of licensure are issued. Thus one may own a rifle but a hand gun depending on the application and decision. A hand gun may only be used at a gun club, not even on your own property to pop tin cans. If the licensee dies then the weapons must be returned if there is no other licensed person so take posession of them. Police do not routinely carry guns apart from the armed offender squad. When I traveled for 6 months in Mexico, Central America, and South America and included 3 weeks in the United States, whilst avoiding known dodgy locations in Latin America, I felt most at risk in San Francisco.
8
It has to stop!! It is becoming a regular normal happening. MASS SHOOTINGS! There has to be much much stricter gun laws. Also punishments for the use of deadly force when using a gun. Having trackers at schools is NOT THE ANSWER. Having teachers with guns is NOT THE ANSWER. LESS GUNS AVAILABLE IS THE ANSWER. Also when someone even has one incident involving guns or gun violence or in that arena, it should not be taken lightly. We have a sex offenders list, we should also have people who own guns list and they must re-apply yearly to be able to keep there guns. Not buy a gun and then forever after they get to have it.. Nope people change, life happens. It is too untractable and untraceable. One MASS SHOOTING after another. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Time for our laws to change. They must benefit the people who need to feel safe, not the people who own guns.
8
There may be a solution, you and I, every person be part of this, stand up, in the work place, in bars, in church, in community, with friends and say, love your neighbor as yourself, if you own a gun, push every day for change in the law. Killing each other is not who we are, so we need to say and tell everyone who we are and what we stand for.
2
Apparently, killing each other is exactly who we are.
4
As long as we can buy assault rifles, handguns with extended clips, and unlimited ammunition, our society will continue to spiral downward. The time is now to confront the NRA. And we may need to revise the Second Amendment, too. Otherwise our courts could say weapon restrictions are unconstitutional. Let's get started now. Please!
6
Not a Muslim, not a Mexican, not someone who is invading from the caravan. Just another angry white an with easy access to guns.
The policeman who died was highly trained and had been part of a SWAT unit. Nobody better trained could have dealt better with this. There were other police officers inside, so please, don't start with "if they were armed this wouldn't have happened".
13
I have written these ideas on my blog and perhaps in this newspaper as well in the past. What do so many of these killings have in common? Yes, guns, yes angry men. But more importantly, the killings are perpetuated by ex military men. Since 1984 at least 35% of the worst mass killings have been done by veterans/ ex military men. Insofar as veterans make up about 14 % of the population, this stat should terrify all of us. Especially over the past 20 years- we have not only over militarized the military but we have militarized our civilian population with adult men and women who are super killing machines. They have been trained extensively with advanced weaponry, bomb making, ambush tactics, and assassinations. We have had a serious problem with guns for decades; now we have an even worse scenario- professional killers who are often suffering with PTSD or who have certain personality schema that led them to join the military in the first place. Of course most veterans do not kill innocent people- but the point is it does not take more than a handful to wreak havoc on a civilian population. And unfortunately, we have more than a handful.
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According to California voter registration website, 13.5% of people aged 17-25 are registered to vote.
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Trump spread the word, accepted by many, that Americans were threatened by immigrants on the march through Mexico. Wrong again, Mr. Trump. The main threat is young, white men, like Mr. Long, who commit the majority of these mass shootings. Long having been a Marine is significant since you can't separate American violence abroad from the violence perpetrated at home. Disillusioned, poorly educated veterans, trained to kill, represent a continuing threat to society. As the Great Pogo once said, "We have seen the enemy and it is us."
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"Sheriff Dean said that at least six off-duty officers were inside when the gunman opened fire."
“The sheriff, his voice cracking, identified one victim as Sgt. Ron Helus, who was shot when he entered the building.”
“Mr. Long first shot a security guard outside the bar.”
The shooter killed himself. So much for the good guys with guns.
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We are witnessing the slow decline of America as a global leader...
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There is a simple solution to this violence. But unless America starts electing members to congress who are not owned by the NRA and believe in sensible gun control laws, these mass shootings will continue to shock and destroy families who have lost members to gun violence.
We are a country that condones and supports mass murder shootings. The NRA and their bought members in congress insure their continuation by defeating legislation that would slow down the number of these mass shootings. You would think the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave would not want this to continue to be our legacy.
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Be safe my fellow Americans, it’s largely why I’ve lived abroad for the better part of the last fifteen years, where you’re not the target of a deranged gunman at a bar or church or school or movie theater, or anywhere really. RIP USA.
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Watching CNN this morning the broadcast noted this is the worst shooting in 12 days. Seems to sum it up appropriately. Will American's wake up to this tragic reality? I guess the midterms gave us the answer, just look at Florida.
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I don't think the average person understands the scope of the gun problem. Any semi-automatic rifle, pistol, or shotgun is capable of efficiently slaughtering human lives by firing one round for every trigger pull. Look at these lists and ask yourself, how on god's green earth can we begin regulate this incredible variety of weapons, most of which are used for sporting (hunting/target shooting) purposes? Is this really the best way to prevent mass shootings? Would it not be easier and more effective to regulate/license/insure gun owners, along with standardized red-flagging procedures?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semi-automatic_rifles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semi-automatic_pistols
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semi-automatic_shotguns
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Once again the calls are for gun controls yet the vast majority of firearms owners are law abiding. How many people die each year from drunk driving. ... where are the calls to restrict alcohol? Fact is that mental competency and mental health laws need to be addressed. As a firearms owner sign me up for a mental health exam but of course the fringe will say that is against their rights too. In the meantime until mental health is addressed, Americans need to avoid going out or on the road for fear of being killed by a drunk or a lunatic.
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@J F Dulles
Gun deaths surpass alcohol-impaired crash deaths by more than 200 percent.
After years of advocacy and stricter laws around drinking and driving, deaths from drunk driving reduced in great numbers.
Seeking solutions is a better way to face this problem, much better than hiding away. Why would anyone want to live in a country where everyone is afraid when it can be changed for the better as it has been in many other countries? Australia and Britain have dealt with this problem. When there's a will there's a way.
An economy cannot survive if everyone is hiding away in their homes as you suggest.
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Gunman had history of mental health issues. (Military MUST take more seriously, the mental health of the personnel they supposedly are so 'proud' of. The way it is now, our govt basically chews up and spits out its military...they are brainwashed with free education and talk of doing 'service for their country', but once our govt is done with them, they are Done with Them.)
Why and how was a Private Citizen able to get their hands on an extended magazine, and....smoke bombs???
Where is the National Database that records, tracks and analyzes every single purchase of weaponry and related items??!!
When is the next march on Washington D.C.? I'm ready to make another special trip there. We cannot rest until we fix this health crisis (yes, gun violence is technically a health crisis in the US).
I also read that some people in the bar last night were also in Vegas when the Paddock shooting occurred. How utterly traumatic for those people, who'll now surely fear any and all gatherings of people. I hope and trust some of those particular people will now be motivated to speak out about guns...and to show how horribly their psyches have been forever altered.
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The United States is the country that decided, a couple of Decembers ago, that the murder of a bunch of five and six year old children was an acceptable price to pay for our "freedom"
I don't know where we go from here if that's how we define ourselves.
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The scary thing is, this is the type of person that could end up running around armed in schools and churches that would supposedly be "the good guy with a gun who will stop a bad guy with a gun". Especially with no universal background checks, and considering that even troubling past events didn't flag this guy as someone who shouldn't own guns.
And, the assault weapon brouhaha is a red herring. He had a handgun with an enhanced magazine. 12 dead, 15 wounded. Ex-SWAT sheriff, armed, yet still killed.
The world is vastly different than the one in which the Founders devised the Second Amendment, and even then they thought gun ownership should require a well regulated militia. We don't even need to amend the Constitution. We just need to be originalist and interpret the Second exactly as written. Be truly conservative, not liberal. Ironically, so-called originalist conservative Justices are actually being quite radical regarding that Amendment.
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As a medical doctor, I am sure this Veteran Marine, who was in Afghanistan most likely, suffered from PTSD and other mental problems. It is exactly the same as those Muslims who committed act of violence against innocent people in America, however; the difference is very clear, the American news media label those Muslims as terrorist and those non-Muslim as mentally ill. For over 10 years I ran for Public office in WA State, such as US Congress, US Senate, Governor, etc. In my platform, I advocated amendment to the second amendment to Constitution to be changed from being a right to bear arms to become a privilege. That will resolve the whole problem, I call for the US Congress, the House and Senate to act in this direction.
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@Dr. Mohammad Said
You'd better figure out how you're going to get 38 states to agree. Amending the Constitution isn't just up to the federal legislative bodies.
He was a decorated marine in Afghanistan n got PTSD on return. More vets die in suicides than in battle and yet the longest American war continues in Afghanistan.
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There is a devastating objective analysis of various aspects of the American gun situation from outside the US by the BBC. I wish every US publication would reprint it. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
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America .. "land of the free?" I don't think so .. land of guns is more apt ... maybe, "live by the gun, die by the gun?"
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