Thanks very much for the "Gone Girl" spoiler. No, seriously.
I was mildly curious about the plot but really wasn't interested in reading the book (or seeing the movie). Now I get to have my cake and eat it too.
13
“This isn’t a movie that’s made for women,” she told me. “It’s not a women’s-issue movie. It’s unnerving, the idea that if there is a movie that has more than two women onscreen together, it’s a message movie.”
====
This brings to mind a comment by an actor (can't remember who, but it was in an article in this newspaper within the last couple years; maybe it was a director), talking about why big-studio movies rarely have more than one black main character: if the black protagonist has black friends, and you want to show him or her interacting with them, then all of a sudden there are a whole bunch of black people in the movie, and you've got a black movie.
It also brings to mind the Bechdel Test, which asks whether a movie contains (a) two female characters, (b) who talk to each other, (c) about something besides a man. A more stringent version of the test requires that the two female characters have names. It's an interesting lens through which to look at great movies past and present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test
14
The headlong rush to judgment by so many well-educated, middle-class women in the #MeToo movement has been startling and dismaying. Their elevation of emotion and group solidarity over fact and logic has resurrected damaging stereotypes of women’s irrationality that were once used to deny us the vote. I found the blanket credulity given to women accusers during the recent U.S. Senate confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh positively unnerving: it was the first time since college that I truly understood the sexist design of Aeschylus’s Oresteia, whose mob of vengeful Furies is superseded by formal courts of law, where evidence is weighed.
Camille Paglia
12
I didn't like Gone Girl at all. I tried again with Sharp Objects and I thought it was complex, highly readable and absolutely enthralling. I understand she might not be to everyone's taste but that particular book I found mesmerizing. It usually takes me ages to read a book-short or long. This book? Two days. Two. She will hook you if you give her a shot. So to speak.
14
Realizing that it's only fiction, but we tread on shaky ground when we turn our focus from the "why" of a murder to mostly "how." In a more sane world, murder would almost never be a rational solution, but in today's chaos, it's too often the solution of choice. The world is in terrible need of a paradigm shift in human thought.
In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs and manufactured values about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. These minds would see the survival of a particular belief or made-up value as more important than the survival of an individual. When we understand all this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity - and the number of murders will greatly decrease.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
1
Given the attention paid in the column to Widows, which Flynn is adapting, and genre-breaking female characters, it's odd that there's no mention of Lynda La Plante, who created Widows and Jane Tennison (Prime Suspect).
12
One thing many women do not consider is how to write for men. The cozy approach is not always of interest, nor soft details, focus on appearances, and other such aspects of life. There is a difference.
4
I loved "Gone Girl," but I had already read "Sharp Objects," which I found far, far more disturbing. I certainly recognize these as being the works of the same author, but I cannot understand the compulsion to make some greater 'theme' out of Flynn's work.
Yes, yes, critics do this with every author, and often this makes sense. But, other than that her so-far protagonists are women and that she writes 'psychological thrillers,' I am just not seeing a pattern. Is it *just* that the protagonists are women behaving badly? Kind of thin to make much of.
5
@chris That's a motif. Not a theme.
1
They named their child Flynn Flynn??
4
@Matt
Assume the child’s name is Flynn Nolan, not Flynn Flynn.
8
Fascinating: although the actors in "Widows" are mostly women, the reviewer emphasizes the male actors. And how many male authors are appended with the names and ages of their children?
5
It's depressing that a novelist who admits she's not read much about feminism is a new fad for some who call themselves feminists. The word has gone Orwellian. It's become a kind of Newspeak. Flynn's idea of looking under the rock suggests that "under" has no ethical solidity. In the age Trump fictional women characters and those who identify with them are magnetized towards a vicious, retaliatory response to the real problems women experience. "Lock her [mind and heart] up" and give her a gun to kill her husband? When pseudo-feminist hate-writing debases rather than raises consciousness, we look to political activism and leave the swamp fantasies behind.
9
From the article: "To experience Flynn’s work is to submit yourself to a series of increasingly incredulous what?s: a deliberate first act of unsettling exposition and character development sets up a chain of wild twists in the second."
I have only read "Gone Girl" and I will never forget my reaction when I read the first twist. I dropped the book.
8
Many television shows portray women at their worst and/or weakest.
"Snapped" is always about women going off the deep end and killing someone.
"How to Get Away With Murder" is filled with nasty female and male lawyers portraying the very worst of the profession.
"Game of Thrones" has at least five rapes per episode and I've spoken to women who have been raped who watch it. Boggles the mind.
Lifetime always has movies that suggest women must have a man to "save" and make them whole.
The list goes on and on because the media, entertainment and every other facet of OUR society is run by men. They are fairy tales and do not reflect the truth about today's women.
The fact is that women are usually victimized - not the brutes who kill and destroy. Certainly there are women who are as demented and cruel as men but they are in the distinct minority.
Please, ladies, be careful what you read and watch. You are a strong, courageous human being with full human rights who can take care of yourself. Do not forget it.
22
@njglea
Please tell me who wrote, and who reads "Fifty Shades of Gray." A man? Men? Why do almost half of all women willingly report that they have, let's be charitable, dominance fantasies? Why are the women most involved in the BDSM community well educated and often in positions of power outside of the home?
Are all these women victims? If so, of what? Themselves? Evolutionary biology and psychology?
5
I wish I knew the answer to your questions, Jus' Me, NYT. I've often wondered the same thing.
I believe it's brain-washing. For centuries entertainment of every kind focused on women being raped and plundered, and had no legal control over the men who abused them. Perhaps women thought it was "normal" behavior when, in fact, it was fantasies made up by men.
Women have finally realized they have been manipulated for centuries and are taking action to make change. It will take years of constant vigilance to call these things out create real social change but nothing is more important in helping young girls and women understand the truth.
I'd like to hear other answers to your questions by women who reacted in the ways you mentioned.
8
@njglea
Who's to say strong women can't fantasize about being a submissive every once in a while? Don't know who wrote 50 Shades... and have never read the series of books, don't care to either but even strong dominant women have fantasies.
2
Sort of amazed, not amazed at all these male critics weighing in here on a female writer.
13
@Anne
Should men only be critical of male writers?
5
@Margo Channing Yes
1
That spoiler hit me like bird poop: sudden, unwarranted, and irreversible
@Katherine Liu
Poop? Irreversible? It washes off.
2
@Katherine Liu Gone Girl was published in 2012. The movie came out in 2014. How long is the world to wait before it can be discussed? Surely an article about an author would discuss her novels.
11
Oh for goodness sakes.
It’s entertainment.
15
@Issy Indeed it is. But entertainment, going back to gladiatorial combats in Rome, f'instance, can be lethal. What entertains a majority of people is a good bellwether of culture.
2
I volunteer with childcare for 5-11yos - and I've observed deliberate nastiness from girls to other girls that can be breathtaking
boys tend to be idiots - running around like puppy dogs knocking things over - getting into wrestling matches then walking away friends
but girls tend to spend more time sitting still - and deliver their words with a cold steel knife edge designed to cut deep - words like 'we're not playing with you anymore'
yesterday I saw one girl sitting alone - unhappy at being left by another girl - she said the other girl 'decided to be annoying' – and spent the rest of the time moping by herself while other kids played happily together..
another girl - approaching two girls writing in their notebooks - was met by hard glares and arms hiding their writing - until she walked away - no words necessary - message conveyed.
men may use physical force to negotiate - women use words - they can cut much deeper - and linger a lifetime ...
42
@Frank Thanks for that Frank. But how can you separate what you observe with what is culturally imposed? I have seen my male bosses in various jobs use psychological tactics. Maybe they just came to them later?
13
@Frank
You hit a nerve with me. Wow, a very perceptive comment. I see this going on now in the office in which I work. I was bullied in school both mentally and physically (by boys) mentally by girls. What I suffered from girls was far worse than anything that was done to me by the boys. I chalked that up to hormones and their bullying didn't last long. The girls kept it up so much so that I dreaded going to school. I got over it though by joining a theatre group in Jr. High School where everyone was accepted. It made the rest of my school going years bearable. Thank you for commenting.
14
@Ambroisine
In all the years I have been employed in one field or another I have found that women are THE worst people to work for save one. I had a psych major who ran a department that I was in she used to love to play head games with all of us and see how we reacted to her invented situations. I felt like a lab rat whereas the men were a pleasure to work with, wanting to know ideas we had etc. Frank may be on to something.
7
Why is criminal psychopathic behavior depicted in novels and movies considered in any way "feminism" and not "criminal psychopathic behavior"?
Maybe I'm just too old and grew up, er, had my consciousness raised (sorry, ladies), in the 70s.
I tried watching "Sharp Objects." Too incoherent and plodding.
24
"Typical masculine neglect."
That was a good one. It had the chocolate milk coming out my nose. So true, especially during football season.
7
Well, I haven't read the books or seen the movies so I hold no opinion about the writer. I don't go looking for gore and sociopathy for entertainment but I know many do and I watch Law and Order and CSI very happily. I don't pretend that having some middlebrow tastes is humiliating. I was very struck by the snark in the review though-the loopy prom queen penmanship or some such and, horrors-leaves on the floorboards !
Decades ago I read a Ms. Magazine profile of Tammy Wynette which was savagely contemptuous. I was only about 19 and considered myself a feminist but I was struck by the hostility and disrespect.
Some things never change. Does the reviewer think that a very successful, interesting woman has been reduced to tears and shame because no one has recently vacumed the car ? She has young children. They probably go to the park and play soccer. Did the reviewer look in the medicine cabinet while she was at it ? Was there any pet hair in evidence ? Maybe the reviewer has no car and is blissfully in ignorance of the crushed leaves, sand, dirt issue. And why do we need to know that the Jeep was red ? Because it is, hmm , a bit tacky? I once bought a red car because it was $ 8,000 less than the comparable black one. Every time I thought about it being déclassé I would think : $ 8,000 less. And Ms. Flynn sounds like a very interesting child.
20
@Consuelo
I had a Plymouth Horizon for eight years and a Honda Civic for nine years. They were both described as crimson, sort of bright burgundy or maroon. I bought those colors on purpose. It never occurred to me that they might look tacky to someone else. But I guess I wouldn't have cared.
5
I happened to glance at this article because I'm about two thirds of the way through the Audible version of Gone Girl, which I was really enjoying until you gave away the ending!! Oh well...
4
@Nancy McKiernan while 'spolier alert' might have been nice, surely there is a statute of limitations on them. Gone Girl as a novel was published in 2012. Gone Girl the movie was released in 2014. Surely enough time has passed for the ending to become part of the vernacular. And surely an article about an author would probably discuss her most famous work.
5
I won’t be reading Flynn but she has all my sympathy for having to endure dull people Committed to forcing their dull creeds on both her and her imagination and who do not doubt their right and duty to do so.
10
I have no interest in reading this kind of novel, of ill behaving women or men.
If you’re looking for a wonderful mystery writer go and read Louise Penny.
4
@Diva
Diva, thanks for sharing your tastes with us. Others have different tastes. I, for one, find Louise Penny's work horribly cloying.
5
What has become the vogue of the period is the female impersonation of the male character. Any less than the 'right' to assume the equal stance to a male in public life is deemed either discriminatory or sexist. Quite apart from the presentation of female nasty impulses (and the media has ample examples of female versions of hubris). I am always quite bemused when one see the female in police attire ...particularly when strutting in the companionship of male colleagues. In swagger and demeanor these resemble a Charlie Chaplin skit.But as mafioso, serial killer, or vengeful she-devil murderer these assume a quintessential female role. In Flynn's work the female is just a disguise.
4
Good God, nearly sixty years after Muriel Spark generously bequeathed us Jean Brodie, people are arguing about whether Amy Dunne is an aggregate asset or liabiltity for women? Someone needs to binge-watch old episodes of Oprah's Book Club.
11
This is so coincidental. I am in the middle of reading "Gone Girl" and I am torn between both disliking both Amy and Nick. Let's see how this plays out. I rather suspect it will not be your ordinary novel and that is exactly why I am reading it.
9
One thing I like about Gone Girl and the theme of this article is that this author is doing things closer to reality at a time of hysteria. This metoo movement is great for the predators it catches - always a good thing, but I see no one taking about the fact that women - with their own agency - are often, not for their attacks or assaults, but for putting their own selves in dangerous situations - owning some amount of responsibility for unwise dangerous choices that could then be predicted in this world we live in today, for one. Or also for themselves being deceptive. Or lying, as another possibility. When Yale law students say “believe her” as opposed to “take her seriously” there is sone kind of silly thing going on: scary and cartoonish. The metoo movement in that respect is a monolithic absurd description of reality. Fact is women and men are sociopathic in equal proportions from whet I recall. They also lie in equal amounts across all cultures on earth interestingly. When a person who is not a minor drinks to inebriation, among unknown strangers, they are, like one strolling through a dangerous neighborhood at night, simply increasing their odds of a bad event happening. This doesn’t mean someone deserved to be attacked . But it does suggest that we all have agency, and while guilt in a crime isn’t shared there is some responsibility shared in many of these cases. The point is, she appears to describe real women potentialities.
5
@Respond
Why don't men stop raping and attacking so that walking freely through the world isn't considered, "putting their selves in unwise dangerous choices."
Does the 4-year old who is raped do that? Does the 78-year old do that?
This "world we live in" is a patriarch society rooted in white supremacy with exorbitant rates of violence against women. How about we work on that - instead defaulting to blaming the victim who in your world is only ever attacked when drunk and walking in dangerous neighborhoods.
19
What I want to know is when her version of Hamlet as part of the Hogarth Shakespeare project will be done? I've been eagerly awaiting it.
4
I had the privilege of working with this fantastic woman at EW and while I'll never forgive the editor who inexplicably laid her off, it also ended up being the first day of the rest of her incredible life. Yup, we always wondered how this sweet woman could create such super freak characters. But she did, and I'm so proud to say that I once worked with her. In fact, I brag about it all the time.
66
It's been said before, such as by Rudyard Kipling '...For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.'
7
On Utopia: Please, for the love of all that is holy, if you find yourself interested in this show, consult the British version first. It is stylish, compelling, horrifically violent, funny, and masterful. There was literally no reason to remake it, it's about 5 years old.
3
She is Perfect. Love her work.
When a friend with a self-proclaimed "superior" taste in reading said that she doesn't read "trash" I said that it's no fun eating spinach three times a day, seven days a week. It's enjoyable to have potato chips and chocolate too. As I've gotten older I only have one standard for judging what I read: do I enjoy reading it?
164
@rxft, I read some fiction for the beauty of the writing, and some books solely for plot. Rare is the occasion that an author nails both, but it happens. Anyone who claims she has “superior” taste in reading is not a person who understands writing.
36
@rxft,
I am a serious reader, prolific. Every couple of books I need a break, My go to break author? Anne Tyler. I feel so good when I finish a novel. And I have read them numerous times and I still feel good.
11
Sharp Objects is a rare gem. Camille Preaker is an incredible portrayal of restraint, discipline and heroism in the face of grave emotional and physical abuse- with all the mental and physical strength and bravery that entails. That she is contending with mental illness of her own and severe substance abuse makes it even more so. Gillian Flynn didn't create (toxic) murderous mothers/female caretakers or relationship violence- but she did give us characters who are relentless survivors hellbent on gaining control over themselves and their situations- in Sharp objects, her motivation is protecting girls/her sister. If that's not feminism, you can keep it.
41
I've read and enjoyed "Gone Girl" as well as the movie. The review is sad in the way that it illustrates how constricting it is to insist on viewing works of art or entertainment through an ideological lens, be it Marxist, feminist, or evangelistic.
It becomes a tedious exercise in inessential decision-making about what one can or cannot do rather than a consideration of a work in terms of what it is.
5
Flynn's a terrific writer. I've read thousands of novels, mysteries mostly, and hers are among the best. Actually, I find that some of the best writers write who-done-its or thrillers, Child, Chandler, Sayers, Follitt, and La Carre among others. Gillisn Flynn is in good company.
4
She named her 8-year old Flynn Flynn? Is that a typo?
3
@Mark Thomason given that we live in a patriarchal society, one presumes that her son has taken her husband's last name.
5
@Mark Thomason maybe her 8 year-old has her husband's last name: Flynn Nolan.
3
@Mark Thomason
I think the article said that her husband's last name is Nolan, so the child is probably named Flynn Nolan.
3
Flynn goes far beyond “can she get the boy and can she get the shoes and, oh, she’s had a cosmo again!”
Flynn avoids "the sexist expectation that female characters be “likable,” by which they mean accommodating, charming, easy to talk to and not bleeding everywhere."
Still, she and the reviewer seem to judge women in ways men would not. They also judge men in ways men would not. It is so feminine in its values and assumptions that it is hilarious to read a review that does not see that at all.
The man's sins that explain the desire for revenge are, "to avenge his infidelity and typical masculine neglect." It seems clear in context that the emotional neglect is made worse by his having paid attention to another. The infidelity itself is not seen the way a man likely would see it, and she goes back to her marriage after she exacts her measure of emotional revenge.
What is so messed up about her? A man writing about a man who is "so messed up" would have a serial killer, or child molester, or something like that. Stephen King's men. She is so messed up because she torments her husband, before going back to him. Only a woman would write that, or review it this way.
"I’ve always said, since birth, ‘Let’s look under the rock.’" But what she is looking for under rocks is stuff that is not the same as men would look for under rocks, and it is evaluated in ways men would not. Yet to this reviewer, that is NOT a sexist expectation, it is rebellion against sexist expectation.
5
Well said.
Resumed thusly : chick lit, meant to push all the buttons, ie manipulation, if it were written about men in Cosmopolitan
"Utopia" doesn't need an American re-make; the original is fantastic. Here's hoping Flynn's remake gets enough attention that the Brits realize they should make a third season.
2
I haven't read Flynn's books but it sounds like she borrows some her characters from denizens in the White House--Ms. Conway and Ms. Saunders--and those on Fox Entertainment News. You don't have to go into fiction to find sick people. Sigh.
10
Am I the only one who thinks that "Gone Girl" borrowed too much from Margaret Maron's "Last Lessons of Summer" (2003)? Close main character name (Amazing Amy vs Awesome Amy) whose parents made a fortune based on their daughter's character? Of course, Flynn goes flying off the rails, but that's another story.
10
I think she borrowed too much from my ex wife tbh...
2
I have read three of Flynn's novels, just finishing Dark Places where the mother is altruistic ... in contrast to the other two (Gone Girl and Sharp Objects) where the mothers are users to the max. Six depictions of "living while female."
6
"Flynn drives a cherry red Jeep Wrangler Rubicon convertible, which is a little dirty, ..."
That is an absolutely classic snarky old-time female comment, like the kind that used to drive old TV commercials, "Marge, I used to have floors like yours, before I found X..." "Jim doesn't seem to like my cooking anymore, maybe I should try Jello!" etc.
Nice woman but cobwebs in the corner, dishes in the sink, laundry unfolded, dirty bathtub...
What does it possibly matter that her car was a little dirty?
66
@Talbot -- She also mentions that Flynn, "she dropped the ironic act to earnestly make sure I had sunscreen." This on the way to re-visit her emotional setting for the writing of the novel.
That is exactly like her heist characters, "Flynn’s script draws a shrewd contrast between the men’s approach to robbery, which is stoic and ruthless, and the women’s, which involves the characters panicking and bickering, yes, but also taking care of one another."
3
@Talbot
I just took the quote to make her seem just like the rest of us; not perfect.
10
@Talbot
I've seen the same type of remark written about male interviewees. The description of Flynn's workspace is the same vein as the car remark--giving the reader a glimpse of the writer's day to day world.
9
I read Gone Girl after a male friend gave it two thumbs up. I was sickened by it and frankly, I believe there is only one genre Gillian fits into well and that is “sociopath” literature. The main character is a sociopath who happens to be a woman. That’s the only thing I think Gillian deserves recognition for. Thanks—
55
@Diane
True, Flynn does write sociopath lit and isn't it marvelous? Like, "The Talented Mr. Ripley" marvelous?
19
I don't think I've ever written a negative comment in the NYT ever (30+ years of reading), but this article...
First, it seems at first glance the writer is holding her subject in contempt, mocking her and her way of speaking, etc. I do not know that is the case, but this profile (to me, and we all know opinions are subjective and thus relative) made zero sense, leaving me more confused than before and wondering if this is the style normally employed, why she has this job?
Needless to say, I think Gillian Flynn a proficient writer, but her subject matter is not to my taste. The world is a burning dumpster fire right now, and things her writing only add to it.
To speak to the more-than-two-women question, AKA The Bechdel Test, I imagine it's because there was so much hype around the book that people thought there was something greater to it ("message movie") than simply generating misery for profit. The novelty here is that it's a woman this time instead of man. Regardless of what gender wrote it, those types of novels can gladly pass me by.
30
I have long identified as a feminist and I found all of Flynn's books containing highly relatable experiences. I had no idea there was such a furor in the "feminist" community about Gone Girl. Except I am part of the feminist community so like women, there is a spectrum of feminism that can not be defined by a soundbite. I appreciate the profile of Gillian Flynn and her work!
22
Flynn zeroes in on the very human aspects of emotion, drama and a hunger for romance - elements that seem too often to define the lives of women rather than simply describe them. Forgive me if this offends or insults, but could this mix be what keeps many highly capable women out of the corner office? Think about Flynn's characters.
6
Ms. Oyler: Gift is a noun, not a verb. You give someone something. You do not gift them. Thank you.
13
@david, I'm copywriter who follows a similar style guide as NYT and yes, it can be a verb if your writing style isn't desperately highbrow. It's also worth noting that language changes and oftentimes it's publications like this one that are on the forefront of bringing that newness into our vernacular. Also responsible? Terrible millennials like me. Gift yourself some chill, dude!
39
@MKelly Of course it is a verb, it's in the dictionary !
2
@david This one bugs me too. Why replace a perfectly apt verb with a noun? Language changes, I agree, but I will still opt for clear writing with the tools we have. Let language change, evolve, adapt, in ways that make our use of it clearer, rather than needlessly repetitive and less clear.
1
Drama + dark stuff. That's easy.
Comedy, like Cho, Sykes, Silverman, Madigan--that's hard.
5
I'm a huge fan! I did not read into "Gone Girl" a repudiation of all things female and feminist- I read it as a dark, dark examination of marriage! And it was so well done! Her examination of the economy at the time (downsizing newsrooms, and the empty mcmansions of the recession) was certainly perceptive and timely.
The narrative first focused on the husband, and it was very very well drawn- thus it was so shocking when the narrative turns and it turns out Amy is driving the crazy train. That is great, great pulpy fiction thriller writing- I think she will go down with "Gone Girl" as one of the top thriller writers of all time. Amy Dunne is a wonderful villian- man or woman.
Why does the public love Tony Soprano, Walter White...even a certain President? yet mercilessly pick apart Amy Dunne, or even female politicians for their hair, their clothing, their laugh....? Hmmmmm?
76
@Ellen Like a certain Twitter addicted male 'politician' and his hair, skin, ..... ?
1
@Not The Donald
Let's be fair: that 'politician' has really remarkable hair and skin color.
2
I have not read any of her books and have no desire to do so. But, I did see an early screening of Widows and understand and appreciate how she puts women in situations usually reserved for men. The movie had its flaws, but the acting was excellent and it was very entertaining. Good enough for me. I found it refreshing that Flynn herself doesn't seem to be reaching for more than that.
3
"...written in the knowing pop-cultural cadence of mid-2000s blogs and comprising a disorienting blend of genre influences, they avoid the striving pretensions of bad literary fiction, despite also being fairly dense and containing, sneakily, many of the pleasures of a digressive social novel."
I'm an intelligent woman and I have no idea what this means.
161
@Anne -- Diagram the sentence, look up the words...you'll get it
2
@Anne, that’s because it’s rubbish. Really disappointing writing. It used to mean something to be published in the NYT Magazine. Not true now.
59
@Anne You know perfectly well that it doesn't mean anything.
30
This is what is so great about Gillian Flynn and many other female authors. They are not writing for women but AS women. The fact that they don’t have to subvert their complex female characters into tropes recognizable by chick lit or try to appear more “male” somehow is what makes it so great for anyone to read. And after you read enough of these books written by great, modern women, you realize how you’ve been forcing yourself to read the male perspective for so long and just considering it to be “the” educated perspective - you didn’t realize there was another way, and that we were just reading the male perspective on life for so long we didn’t even realize it. Gillian Flynn, Kate Atkinson, Helen DeWitt, Jennifer Egan - so many others to name. They all do this for us, and thank God that they do.
So yes - it’s feminist and “subversive” - but it will be even better and more refreshing when it stops being subversive merely for being from a complex female point of view. And the fact that more female authors aren’t recognized as among the greats is because people STILL don’t realize how stuck their brains are in the traditional male view of things. Thank you, Gillian Flynn.
26
Gillian Flynn's superimposition of conflicting narratives across both separate characters and the separate aspects of those characters themselves is a literary advancement. She's crystallized the modern perception of self as the meta-persona; the presence that sees itself on a screen rather than a mirror and constantly redefines itself in a positive feedback loop as it watches itself dancing hysterically to the music of its base survival instincts.
The accusation that this is somehow misogynist is shockingly shortsighted. Gillian Flynn will be remembered as one of the great writers of our era.
6
@John Wallace LOL. Say what?
Amy Elliott Dunne, elaborately frames her husband for her own murder in order to avenge his infidelity and typical masculine neglect. "typical masculine neglect"?
36
Why is it necessary to reveal the entire plots of these books?
13
“...in the precisely loopy handwriting of a prom queen”? That’s an astoundingly sexist and diminishing description for this highly successful, talented writer.
42
@Passion for Peaches
Plus - what does it even mean?
6
I stopped reading after the first spoilers.
2
@Clara These books all came out over 10 years ago.
7
@Josh Which does not mean everyone has read them.
2
@Josh That doesn't mean everybody has read them who ever wants to!
If y'all were paying attention, you would have noticed that Flynn's husband's last name is Nolan, making her son's last name, likely, not Flynn.
3
@Maureen, his surname is indeed Nolan, but that is not necessarily “likely.” Why assume that he has his father’s surname?
4
@Passion for Peaches
Maureen may have assumed it because most American-born kids do bear their father's surname
6
I was maddened and disturbed by the outrageous, unbelievable "Gone Girl"....but I loved it. And my first thought after reading it was addressed in this piece, "How messed up is that author?!" Although, on paper, she seemed completely normal. Relieved to hear that she actually is normal! What a crazy, twisted imagination though. "Sharp Objects" was messed up too. It's actually pretty hilarious that Flynn is normal and likeable.
9
@Katie Lee Do you feel the same about Stephen King et al ?
1
@Not The Donald
I have said that about Flynn AND King, but knowing the childhood trauma King suffered I can see why he writes what he does. Plus he's a nifty writer in all genres not just horror.
Women are just as capable of evil as men. True equality!
11
Interesting - I find her books badly written and with no message at all save unlikely plots and over dramatic twists. I happen to enjoy thrillers and detective novels and the like so I'm okay with unlikely plots - they're fun, but I have never really thought of hers as being good examples of the genre. "Sharp Objects" on TV was very good - mostly because the acting was compelling, but the book? Overcooked and just eh.
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@tksrdhook I agree; I didn't find the books well written or even that interesting. I enjoyed watching "Gone Girl" on Netflix; one of the few times I thought the movie was much better than the book.
2
Gillian Flynn's female protagonists may be "unlikeable" (though I liked Amy in 'Gone Girl' a lot more than her husband) but the author has an uncanny knack for revealing qualities in her women that bond the reader to them through a common humanity. It's a very bold technique, and I can only hope that with this moment's long overdue ascendance of woman to dignity and respect in our society we don't culturally descend to favoring stories about "positive role models" only.
Gene Ritchings, author of "The Reckoning of Adrienne Monet"
13
I think that there are so many more pleasant ways to spend time and energy while on this planet. There is enough hate and vitriolic speech and writing these days. Perhaps, rather than women trying to figure out how to get out of bad relationships, they ought to figure out how they got themselves into them in the first place.
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@Lucinda Carr, you could be a character in one of her books.
7
"The mainstreaming of feminism"? If it's "mainstream" in this male dominated society, it's NOT feminism. Anyway, I love Flynn's books because she knows that women can be dangerous. We are rarely as violent or impulsive as men - but we can be just as evil. A female perpetrator is always more fascinating than a male perpetrator, because much more cunning is required.
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@Penny White
Meet more humans.
3
Gone Girl had a unique new structure and a surprising plot. Why dissect in a feminist context? It was a great fun read. Can't it be just that?
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@Carol Colitti Levine Just about anything is dissected in a feminist context nowadays. Sometimes for good reasons, but many times for clicks, advertising revenue, fame etc. Jumping on the bandwagon so to speak. This is also true for certain other -isms.
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@Carol Colitti Levine
I completely agree. "Gone Girl" is a well-written and suspenseful book, but it has nothing to do with feminism. It has to do with entrapment of one human being by another, crazy not just for recognition but for absolute control, no matter the damage to truth, individuals or relationships.
Unless of course that is the way feminists wish to be portrayed, but I doubt it.
4
Her 8 year old is named Flynn Flynn? I mean, I realize coming up with workable character names is hard, but give the kid a break.
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@Martin Veintraub: No, he's named Flynn Nolan. He has a father named Brett Nolan who is mentioned extensively in the article. Duh.
8
@Carson Drew
I can't imagine Carson Drew ever typing 'duh' but I like it a lot.
2
@Carson Drew
Dear Mr. Drew,
How is Nancy these days? Hope life in River Heights is good.
PS: I wonder how many people get the reference? Love it!
5
For me, Flynn’s stuff is all a bit Grand Guignol and not in a good way. The alternating narrator structure of Gone Girl held my interest for about 100 pages, but the second half of that book just fell apart. Flynn is clever, her stuff is likely to continue to sell to readers and filmmakers, but there are better, more subtle and disturbing “girls gone bad” writers out there. But Flynn has found her niche. It will be interesting to see if its limits begin to chafe.
8
I am a voracious reader but have not read anything by this author.
Don't know if I will love it or hate it .
But I do know there is no accounting for taste.
And I am happy for any woman who gets published and appeals to enough people that her books sell.
22
Statistics for homicides in the United States from 2000 - 2015 by gender: male kills male 72.6 %, male kills female 18.3 %, female kills male 7.1 %, female kills female 2.1 %.
From these stats, it can be surmised that the dark side of femininity is not nearly as dark as the dark side of masculinity.
* Statistics are taken from a study done by James Alan Fox and Emma E. Fridel on Violence and Gender , published in June 2017
12
One out of fifty men walking around free is a psychopath. One out of four incarcerated men statistically is a psychopath. Very few of these men are capable of murder. But where you find that rare woman, who qualifies as a psychopath — you find dead bodies.
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@jay
One of the core themes of Gone Girl is that Amy Elliott has been the subject of intense social and emotional pressure that has pushed her, by necessity, to become extraordinarily disciplined in every aspect of her life. All women feel this kind of pressure. When the blow comes that puts Amy on the path of revenge, the simplicity of a gunshot could never provide sufficient payback for the lifetime of pressure and deprivation that led her to the situation she is in. Amy's plan is much darker and involves complete emotional and social destruction. She systematically takes away from her husband everything that makes life worth living and yet intentionally leaves him alive to continue in humiliation and ignominy. It's a fate far worse than death and it is the only payback that Amy considers equitable.
So is the dark side of Amy Elliott really less dark than the dark side of a man who simply kills the object of his anger?
7
Many years ago I worked with women who'd been battered. I remember hearing that men (often serial abusers) who kill their wives often are seen by juries as having done so "in a fit of anger" and therefore get relatively light sentences. Yet women who kill their husbands often do so because they've suffered serial abuse and see no other way out of the relationship. So the murder is "pre-meditated" and therefore these women get stiffer prison sentences.
8
Not being a fan of fiction, I haven't read any of Flynn's work. But I like the way her mind works. People are often not what they seem. Perhaps one day if she puts one of her 'heroines' in a rigid religious setting — or in politics — she'll grab me.
4
I struggled to read her first book, boring detail and slow moving prose. Don't understand her popularity, but books are like wine, you should read what you like.
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"This is how women fight ( back)."
2
We're now using precious column inches to deconstruct popular fiction? Really?
Gone Girl and Sharp Objects were entertaining and gruesome reads--a pretty fun way to spend a rainy Sunday evening. Nothing more. Really.
28
Gone Girl was a pick for our book club and remains (50 books read and counting) one of the most overwrought, ridiculous choices we've made. There were so many inane twists and turns as to be laughable or infuriating depending upon one's mood. The ending, positively atrocious Worst of all was the bloat--if Flynn's work was trimmed by half it would only improve the story--enormously. And yet this is consider a "great read" in today's fiction. Yikes!
35
Precisely. The book had so much unnecessary shlock during her time in hiding. It actually translated much better on film - I loved the Neil Patrick Harris character in the movie but in the book that entire section was superfluous. I will say this piece mentions but doesn't spend much time on Flynn's sense of place. The scenes in the abandoned shopping mall stayed with me more than any plot point or character in the book.
5
Please name a thriller or mystery your group did think was a great read. I’d be interested in your recommendations.
4
And what's interesting about this description of dysfunction is...?
2
This seems overwrought. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I liked the book, and it sounds like I'd like the author. All the agonizing analysis reminds me of Freud’s “narcissism of small differences.” I guess sometimes an old reader of genre fiction is just….
42
Well, you want female heroes, you probably ought to have female villains too.
7
Dark side?
Dark side?
Do you only reserve the modifier "toxic" for men and masculinity?
The double standard here bears witness to hypocritical feminism (i.e.: toxic feminism).
So what is it then? You just can't bring yourselves to use the opprobrium "toxic" because... because... because... toxic feminists prefer special language only when vilifying men.
21
@JT my eyes just rolled out of my skull, out of my house, and down the street like small fleshy tumbleweeds.
10
She named a child Flynn Flynn?
3
@Ray Wulfe I would assume that her son shares her husband's last name (Brolan)
@Ray Wulfe
I assume he's Flynn Nolan as that's her husband's last name.
It’s an easy Google, ya’ know.
1
I think Gillian Flynn ought to get together with Naomi Alderman and write a sequel to Alderman's NYT Best 10 of 2017 pick "The Power" in which women gain the ability to electrocute others (like an electric eel) - a power men do not possess.
I think that would be an amazing and riveting book that I would buy on the first day of publishing.
1
“precisely loopy handwriting of a prom queen. ”
Whatever that means.
16
Nothing in this article struck as stange, except for the fact that Ms. Flynn named one of her kids 'Flynn'.
4
It's the most sane of us humans that know how screwed up most people are. I look forward to checking out her writing.
4
I found both the movie Gone Girl and series Sharp Objects ridiculously stupid, self-absorbed and completely unwatchable. (I know, movies are not books...) If the plot twists in the movie mirror those in her book, no thanks.
6
@GSL
GSL, I loved the novel, "Sharp Objects," and prevailed on my spouse to watch it all with me. The acting was superb throughout, and the creation of that toxic town was wonderful. Certainly, an atmosphere of threat and corruption was evident in every episode.
Still, I could have made no sense of the show if I had not read the novel. Even the final denouement was ruined by being squished into a few seconds. I'm sorry to learn that Ms. Flynn had any control whatsoever.
1
Loved this piece. Lauren Oyler's writing is (also) wonderfully sly: phrases such as "people at parties and other passive-aggressive spaces" and "typical masculine neglect" had me almost spilling my coffee due to spontaneous laughter. Thank you!
9
What I love about Flynn is that she brings to light the dark side of almost any woman: that, given the right circumstances for exercising anger and revenge, any woman is capable of the kind of heinous crimes we associate only with (bad) men. Why should women in fiction be portrayed as fairer - in every sense of that word? Or, worse, as victims or hapless criminals who are punished. Leave that for James Paterson, whose macho-dominated characters and work I detest, and whose following I absolutely cannot understand. Conversely, Flynn is fantastic because her female protagonists are a much-needed antidote to Jodi Picoult's selfless heroines - who are invariably sainted, martyred, and victorious in avenging vicious harm done to a child, which any mother can relate to, and that's why Picoult is the master of the mother-as-hero/rescuer novel. But, since I'm not a mom, and have a husband who's a prince (no need to worry, hubby!) Flynn's my gal because she turns that whole "women scorned..." cliche into a much more empowered character who's master of her own fate.
13
What a lovely and insightful column. Thank you.
2
I find Flynn's interest in the specific ways women can feel and cause pain to be fascinating, but to say you can drive a truck through her plot holes is an understatement. While Amy in Gone Girl is a believable character in herself, virtually nothing she does is believable or even, sometimes, possible. Draining enough of her own blood by cutting into her arm to make a big pool of it, then hopping up to clean, dress, and take a long drive? If the cut was big and deep enough to drain her blood without clotting, she would have needed stitches. Probably several. And she would have been very weak for quite a while, and the wound would require constant attention and take a long time to heal, especially if she didn't get stitches. That is only one of about 20 ridiculous plot points.
Sharp Objects was a really good miniseres, but primarily because Amy Adams and Patricia Clarkson were fabulous.
Consistently, Flynn has the psychology down; if only she would work out plots that were remotely believable it would be a lot more fun to read her.
15
I love Anne Tyler as a novelist because she has such empathy for her characters. She looks for goodness in people, and value. Flynn doesn't and this is now a genre. The characters seem real, but what's the point? There's a gleefulness in hating flawed people that I just don't connect with. I admire any writer who has this level of talent with storytelling, but I could only get through about half of it. Her stories remind me of Quentin Tarantino's movies, clever but reveling in cruelty.
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@Jean Campbell
So glad you wrote this. I ADORE Anne Tyler. Her books are so compassionate and poignant and have staying power in their humanity.
7
@Jean Campbell
Not all fans of her books necessarily hate her flawed characters. When I read Dark Places and Sharp Objects, I empathized with those protagonists wire-to-wire. I thought it was rather intimate to learn all the secrets those characters carried around.
6
Funny...my takeaways on Flynn's work is related, but different. She perfectly captures the ways men are equally trapped in the idealized version of girls - the princesses to our frogs. She uses the failure of men's imagination in viewing women they think they know intimately as a perfect foil. It's easy to be in love with a princess. It's harder to be in love with a woman.
The same trap catches both sexes, in entirely different ways.
This is not my beautiful house
This is not my beautiful wife...
177
Wow. Very insightful.
16
@Brian, that is essentially the plot of Big Little Lies.
6
@Brian-Indeed! This describes my geeky male roommate's experience with the 25-years' younger woman he met on a meet-and-greet junket he took with other men to Russia. Fortunately he survived her but one of the other guys in a nearby community -- didn't.
11
Fascinating piece of writing, although Oyler's chatty style and over-worked, twisty, run-on sentences get bothersome. But such is the style of magazine writing, I suppose. (By the way, great profile writers will tell you it is possible to write a magazine piece without making the writer a part of the story.
It really is possible.) Nevertheless, great insight into the thinking of a talented author.
18
I listened to Gone Girl on CD's during a long cross-country car trip. I found it very entertaining. Parts of it were hilarious, for example the "Cool Girl" speech and the spoiled New Yorker's need to learn Midwestern potluck Tupperware customs. It was fun deciding which of the two main characters I hated more. I didn't like the ending, but so what?
18
@Carson Drew
Yeah, they were both pretty nasty and amoral.
1
I like Flynn's writing because she is an interesting storyteller who specializes in plot twists and unexpected surprises. Her protagonists are meant to be unlikeable. She writes about the boxes women find themselves in and the dark things they do to themselves and others to get out of them. Perhaps that's why they strike a chord. As a feminist, I know we like to think we are against sexist tropes but we fail to consider sometimes that we have our own tropes. Flynn's books are about people who don't fit those rules, which is why they are interesting. I like literary prose and elegant turns of phrase with deep historical references as much as any reader, but sometimes all you want is cracker jacks; a good story with a surprise inside. Flynn is better than cracker jacks, though, and shouldn't be dismissed or over judged.
85
@Sharon Sheppard Her work is the literary equivalent of a very good burger and fries with a cold microbrew.
4
Frankly, I don't understand Flynn's following. I had to force myself to get through "Gone Girl," which struck me as sensationalistic, straining my ability to suspend disbelief. Her characters are wooden, the dialog often juvenile. Her sentences left me groaning in dismay. Even escapist fiction can and should be written with some flair.
90
@dmdaisy. Yeah, I got suckered into reading Gone Girl, which was just hopeless. Badly written, the plot was just silly, large chunks were completely ridiculous. Reminded me some of reading Presumed Innocent, though that was considerably better written, it was just a terrible mystery, I figured the entire plot out by page 100. In Gone Girl you can't really figure anything out, since none of it makes any sense at all.
17
I could not finish 'Sharp Objects'
3
@dmdaisy--The movie is even worse. I don't understand her popularity either. To each his/her own, but I don't need nasty characters and mediocre writing to get me through my day.
15
A good storyteller is a good storyteller, full stop. While I prefer to explore and become lost in classic literature -- Tolstoy, Trollope, Mahfouz, the Brontes, et al -- Gillian Flynn's books kept me entertained and guessing from start to finish. The same goes for Stephen King, particularly what to me is his best novel, "11/22/63," a time-travel tale that also impresses as historical fiction, which I've now read three times.
As for portraying women at their worst, in more recent years Elena Ferrante's Neapolitan novels accomplished this, as has Franco-Moroccan writer Leïla Slimani in "Lullaby." Flynn is in good company!
58
@Demetroula I believe Slimani's book title in the US is "The Perfect Nanny", a horrific story (based on a true event) that became a blockbuster in France and a flop in the United States. I never considered the book to be only about bringing out the worst in women but at least in part about the dark side of being a mother. It's unimaginable that a mother would admit that at times you don't like your kids and wish they could disappear... if only for a moment.
4
@Demetroula--Yes, but are these book people really want to read? I'll never read another Ferrante, nor will I read another Gillian Flynn book. I suppose there's an audience for those type of books, but it's not me, that's for sure.
No thank you to these writers. I don't need to be grossed out by violence and evil characters, including (especially) women. I see enough of that in the news every single day. Also, there's no reason to "laud" portraying women at their worst. What have we come to when evil women characters are considered a "delicious" read?
7
@Norton I respect your opinions. Just wish you could have done the same for me.
10