https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/latin-america-murder-crisi... Beings are escaping a deadly situation in their home countries. Our constitution states that people can enter the United States If they fear death. Their fear is real.
1
Xenophobia is not a good look (much less a core American value). Reading the tenor of these comments brings to mind the mindset of days past in which a popular refrain was. . . the Irish need not apply.
1
So the Army goes to the border to "protect" us from the South Americans? All it's going to take is one panicked 19-year old who, feeling threatened, opens fire. And it may be like Kent State times 1,000.
1
No country has open borders.
But, asylum is not about open borders.
Asylum is about legality and compassion.
These migrants, these so called "illegals"--people that have been our forefathers/foremothers and could be us at any point in history--aren't uprooting their lives, trekking miles away from their homelands because it's easy or because they want to strain our lives. For them, it's life or death. (Also, is there a problem with diversity?)
What's criminal is the lack of humanity in this country. Detain immigrants and separate kids from their parents. If we're all so worried about the riches of the richest country in the world, it's about our priorities, not our resources.
We complain that we can't take care of our own people. Have we ever thought that it's because we have chosen not to take care of our own. You know, we've consistently decided, and without much uproar, that it's okay for our government to fund billions and billions into nuclear weapons to "protect" and "fight" wars in countries where few Americans live yet we protest so heavily to spending billions on healthcare and education--two things that would help with poverty and homelessness. Having more compassion would also help.
Also, if we're so worried about immigrants and the economy, read this.
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes
2
The US accepts about 1 million new immigrants each year. So the issue isn't simply immigration. Its the fact that they are from the wrong place, speak the wrong lanugage, and are the wrong colour. As we creep closer to that demographic watershed where the US is not longer a majority white country (somewhere around 2044) this is only going to get worse. It's just too bad more Scandinavians don't want to move here I guess.
1
Trump is an absolute menace to this country. The immigration issues highlights how this irrational man seeks immediation gratification for his gargantuan ego by literally pouncing on the underserved populations such as the immigration crisis.
Sadly. His base cannot see beyond their fog of blind locality to ravenously support this demagogue who is able to stoke their hatred of perceived forces (liberal elites) who his base thinks have intentially marganilized them based on political advantage,
Education, social status and economic gain.
What his base miserably fails to recognize is that he is a card carrying member of the one percent. Trump was born with the silver spoon and he has lived his entire life with enormous access to political, financial, and academic power centers. He has always had advantages in his life that were and are not available to the normal American worker. And, at the end of the day, this man can comfortably move to the protected environs of the White House , shift to one of his country clubs or be cocooned in the monied enclave at Mar-A-Largo, where another adoring crowd coddles him. Chances are his voting base would be intentially excluded from socializing here because they likely cannot afford the dues. And Trump happily knows this, as he continues his masterful manipulation of people for his selfish political gain.
(Mr. Trump’s) “..bid to slash financial aid to Central American countries whose citizens are making their way north toward the border also is under discussion..”.
What a dumb idea! The opposite is required: measures aimed at decreasing the people’s motivations to leave their countries for the US, and this cannot be done by slashing financial aid to Central America.
Increasing the aid, accompanied by careful planning how to distribute the aid across the Central American countries, establishing and protecting reason-based legal systems, bringing the criminals and corrupt government officials to justice, guaranteeing free elections, protecting freedoms of the press, etc. all will help to contain the future caravans. Alternative solutions will almost certainly be more costly in the long-run.
The tragedy for both, the migrants and the Americans, is that we cannot expect reasonable solutions to the problem of immigration from neither of the parties to follow. The Democrats outright refuse to express their immigration policy, and the GOP fell under the spell of a con man afflicting us with the incessant stream of his self-serving & shallow mental gibberish.
This is sad. The approaching caravan of human misery became political currency in the US elections where both parties claim occupying the higher moral ground. The currency of the con man is clearly worthless, but the value of the currency the other side, by not being spelled out, stays undefined. Can Dems fixed it?
1
Trump, having slept in cribs of gold, has gone through hundreds of millions of his daddy's dollars. He has no feelings whatever for anyone else. We have seen some sociopathy before in our leaders, but not to this extent.
Every mother's nightmare is president now, and our children will start acting just like him. We will be so proud.
If Trump and his cabinet were a campus fraternity, they would have already been kicked off University property. We continue to tolerate hate speech, including xenophobic and rascist belchings from White House controlled podiums. Violence is understood. What else do we need from this Party of white America for the elected members to self correct? Do they think that this nation went to wars and other disputes after careful thought? Stuff happens.
A former FBI official speaks about the bombings and other violence in the sixties. The poor cops were victims. He seems to forget the police dogs, engine blocks, bombs and bullets that authorities randomly used against black american adults and children because of race.
Trump is the George Wallace of the 2000s. His cabinet is the White Citizens Council and our national elected bodies are the deep South. They arc towards failure.
1
Closing the border is long overdue! All of these people can apply for asylum in their own countries instead of taking significant risks and enduring hardship and significant risks trying to cross the southern US border.
6
Why can't we just follow our LONG TERM POLICY. It is all about Trump. Rather than put troops at the Boarder, we need to take that money for more jobs. When someone comes to the boarder and ask for Asylum we have two options. One to put the people in a controlled location or to put a ankle bracelet on them. Then give them a reasonable court date and if they do not appear go get them and send them home. We have had some for of this system for years and it works well. So why are we acting like thugs?
The ‘national emergency’ is of a political nature. Trump’s popular minority supporters are convinced that their problems stem from immigrants & refugees seeking a better life in America. In order to placate them & maintain their midterm-election support he must turn this ‘molehill into a mountain’. When all you have is a hammer every problem becomes a nail.
2
Enough already!
We have over 22 million illegal immigrants in the country right now. How many more?
As for the statements that illegal s are a net plus to our economy how come the Census Department states that legal immigrants consume more welfare benefits then Americans and that illegal immigrants consume more than legal immigrants.
As for the lower crime rates , please explain to me why over 20 percent of inmates in federal prisons are foreign nationals.
As I said, enough already.
13
I am extremely perplexed why Republicans and other commentators scream “Bad Democrats. It’s your fault.” Last I checked: the executive branch, and both chambers of the legislative branch, are held by the Republicans. Why don’t the Republican House and Senate simply pass some immigration reforms, and the fellow in the White House sign the bill into law! Why not scream “Bad Republicans. It’s your fault” since they haven’t touch immigration legislation in two years.
1
Go after the employers with hefty fines and penalties. Make it cost something to hire illegals. The money collected could help offset the enormous cost of dealing with them.
13
It would be helpful if the article included the following: The Honduran President was appointed by the US (and not elected democratically) to keep misery wages in place so Dole and over 200 more US companies can exploit the labor in Honduras to import all those juicy pineapples, ripe bananas, and other fruit you see at your supermarket.
Next time you go shopping. Pay attention to the sticker; find out where it comes from...100% I can assure you someone earned less than $1 day for you to enjoy it..then you can ask: why people want to come here?
2
When President Obama occupied the White House, Congressional Republicans railed against his use of Executive Orders, saying they were an abuse of power.
Now that Donald Trump occupies the White House, Congressional Republicans consider executive Orders a valuable tool in promoting their agenda. This is just one more example of Republican hypocrisy.
How about instead we look at/continue to feature the photos of the children in Yemen-and the immigrant children? How does the so called Christian conservative right voter block condone and overlook this suffering of humanity? How do anti-abortion proponents face their hypocrisy? It's not puzzling-it's immoral and cruel. Forget the rich and corporate rich-they lost all humanity long ago.
3
This is obscene. Trump lies about violent "Middle Easterners" infiltrating a migrant band of Central American refugees --"very bad people." (Racism on racism.) Yet the only recent U.S. terrorist violence is an unstable domestic bomber goaded on by Trump's own extreme rhetoric.
Meanwhile, over 90% of the last wave of Central American migrants passed the first round of vetting to qualify for asylum in the U.S.--and that's Trump's immigration boarsd
It's Trump who needs to be barred, not Central Americans fleeing genuinely terrible circumstances.
5
As usual when it comes to immigration pieces, there are lots of angry but misinformed comments.
First, it is legal under US and international law for an individual to apply for asylum.
And those coming mainly to work offset the demographic bulge of baby boomers leaving the work force.
And recent illegal immigration numbers are actually down significantly.
And immigrants are a net economic plus for our country and mostly do jobs Americans don't want.
And immigrants as a group pay more in taxes than they consume in government benefits.
And crime rates are actually lower among immigrants than among native born citizens.
Of course we should have an orderly process for potential immigrant workers. But Republicans have repeatedly blocked attempts to resolve this in a bipartisan fashion. Politically, it's much more valuable to demonize immigrants cycle after cycle while the country benefits from inexpensive second class workers. It also distracts from the real economic problem of national wealth being funneled to the top 1%.
Given how misunderstood it is, immigration is not a winning issue for Democrats, particularly before the midterms. There's even another caravan currently being organized in El Salvador on Facebook. Odds are Russian trolls are playing a roll there.
So Trump wants to militarize the border to fight off women and children. A show with no substance. The only benefit I see to this timing is that Trump may blow a gasket if he ends up looking impotent.
7
Trump has ruined the dignity of the Oval Office and is now threatening our way of life. He would not be any threat if it weren't for the gullible supporters misguided when they vote.
Make no mistake, the USA is in a crisis and if the midterms don't stop Trump, we have lost the nation.
God help us all.
7
There are some very bad people on both sides.
4
Asylum is for people persecuted by the state. If gang violence and domestic abuse can be a reason it is unfair to everyone including real refugees and legal immigrants. If the caravan can organize themselves and take a stand in their own town against oppression I think they can make life better for everybody.
13
Really? "…a significant play to energize his anti-immigrant base…" We are not anti-immigrant. We simply object to a mob of 1000s of people, which intends to disregard American laws, cross the border without any legal right to do so, have not submitted to required background checks to determine eligibility for entry and then demand benefits once in country. Anti-immigrant? NO. Anti-illegal immigrant? ABSOLUTELY. If this mob is allowed entry, does anyone doubt more will follow? We either control our borders or we surrender our sovereignty.
22
I agree with Trump's efforts to thwart illegal immigration...Asylum rules should be based on political issues, not domestic or gang violence....We have that here too....And frankly, I think most come here for economic opportunity....Can't blame the immigrants for that. It's logical to bring your family here if you can and have your children born here for citizenship.... I'd give it a shot if I lived in some of the hellish places they come from. The payoff is just too good....I'd rather be poor here than in Guatemala.
What annoys me is that Trump also promised to crack down on employers who hire illegal entrants...He promised an upgraded e-verify system and penalties on employers who hire them....Likely he does not want to upset businesses who profit off illegal labor. If there is really no enforcement or penalty, to be competitive many employers break the law....Those that don't operate their businesses legally are placed at a disadvantage...It's not fair.
With better enforcement on employers to follow the law, the benefit of coming here will be reduced. Once employers start getting arrested for their illegal ways, most may decide to operate their businesses lawfully. Illegal employers should be jailed. Illegal immigrants, sent home...The illegals that are here will be stuck in cash only jobs, but that was the risk they took.
If this does deter the numbers of illegal immigrants, we could increase legal immigration to make up the shortfall in the labor market.
7
This caravan that is making its way to the southern border is a direct result of this president's anti immigration and anti Latino policy. This open defiance of the administration is not a Republican political gift but a mass human expression in protest of the cruelty of the president's callous disregard of the right of immigrants to apply for asylum without risking the separation or loss of the children.
Trump will send people whose lives are at risk out to meet their fates just to impress a lot of people who think that foreigners are taking away their country and their livelihoods because of a lot of rumors to that effect that have no genuine basis in fact. What’s more any innocent deaths will be on all of our hands because he’s the President.
I disagree with many of Trump's policies, but I don't disagree with his stand in handling this "migrant caravan."
For those liberals with bleeding hearts, I get it, noblesse oblige. I read in other media like Vox, interviewing those from this traveling group, some of whom say they miss their Buffalo wings or PlayStation (when they were in US illegally in the past), or that they want to find a better paying job, etc etc. I can't shake the feelings that these are NOT people who feel threatened at all. These are economic migrants, not unlike the large majority of those "refugees" who rush the shore of EU in search of a better life.
It's perfectly natural for anyone in search for a better life. Who wouldn't, really? But where do we draw the line to decide who is poorer than who? I don't doubt the struggle for those who survive on $5 a day poor in Latin America; but are they in far better shape than those surviving on less than $2 a day in Africa? Should we send boats or charter flights to take in all those from Africa instead?
The other troubling aspect is, how do you assess claim that someone feels "threatened"? How do you prove or disprove that claim?
If they did not try to fight for a better future in their home country, what hope will there ever be for their countries to ever get better and stronger? Ultimately they are their own responsibility, not US.
All these political correctness is tiresome. No wonder Trump is winning (again).
20
A few thoughts:
1) You can be sure that Mexican and American intelligence have ears and eyes (informants), or even agents, in the midst of the caravan. If not, they should.
2) The "we can't even take care of our own" argument. Yes you can but your Republican government refuses to do so. Plenty of money there; positive political will, not so much. The insufficient funding of social programs is a choice.
3) These people are at least two months away from the US border. Plenty of time for talk, planning and constructive solutions, even if partial.
4) These people are hungry, exhausted and probably in so-so health. They are unarmed. Please tell me the risks they pose.
5) If, by some freak combination of circumstances, the caravan grows to 50 000 people or more who crash the US border, well, that it called a major historical event. Nothing you can do about it without inflicting major casualties.
6) We, Americans and Canadians, are, comparatively, very rich. We could afford giving these people a hand without endangering our comfortable economic situation.
7) Why not take whatever money to be used to fund military intervention, and more, to put these people to work rebuilding the American infrastructure. Win-win.
1
Stop this asylum madness now! All the articles I’ve read about this caravan (including NYT articles) say the migrants are all essentially coming for economic reasons. This is not what asylum is for. Being poor and having few job prospects does not make one eligible for asylum. These caravans need to be stopped now or they will just continue to grow in size and frequency. I feel sorry for these people but do not want my tax money going for their health care, childrens’ education, and social services costs when we can’t even take care of our own. Additionally it’s sheer madness that thousands of people can decide to band together and march through multiple sovereign nations until they get to their preferred nation and then demand admission and jobs... Enough is enough!
32
@Altered Carbon - "Trump prepares to close border to Central American migrants and deploy troops", Washington Post, Oct 25, 2018.
U.S. courts have limited the government's ability to hold children in immigration detention facilities, so "banning" Central Americans who enter illegally could have little practical effect. A denial of their ability to seek asylum could also matter little. Less than 10% of Central American applicants are granted asylum by U.S. immigration judges, according to the latest statistics, but many have used the process as a way to gain entry to the United States and remain in the country while their claims slowly proceed through the legal system.
The migrant caravan remains more than 900 miles from U.S. territory and has dwindled by half to about 3,600 people, according to the latest estimates from Mexican authorities. But the scenes of young men breaking through gates along the Guatemala-Mexico border this month have alarmed the White House, and Trump continues to depict the Central American migrants as a criminal menace and a security threat.
(And Central American migrants who cross illegally and are taken into custody still have to be returned to their home countries - Mexico will not take them. Courtesy of US taxpayers).
3
Oh where is that Donald Trump wall?
On which we could all play handball?
Or put up graffiti
Tributes to a sweetie
Or Trumpian tweets that appall.
6
I thought that the biggest mistake Clinton made was to avoid addressing immigration more loudly and clearly. I know she said that her strategy was to address issues 'at the root,' meaning by supporting justice in home countries. But I think she was mistakenly afraid to be vociferous about enforcing immigration laws for fear of alienating liberal voters.
In regularly reading NYT Comments on this issue, I've noticed that most life-long Dems, like myself, will often say something about this being the one area on which they agree with Trump.
Now, I think that if any of the Democratic candidates had referred to the Comments column on some of these contentious issues for their talking points - they would win handily. To my surprise, none did.
Another area where I've noticed consensus, about which politicians seem fearful of addressing (are they worried about offending Catholics?), regards overpopulation and efforts to control growth. It's obvious that the world's most difficult problems - including mass migrations and global warming - would be greatly ameliorated if we would act now to mitigate population growth here and in relatively undeveloped countries.
The reason why I've been feeling so hopeless about the future is not only Trump and the fact of his rock-solid and proudly ignorant followers, it's because I know that no one in either party - and certainly not Bernie - will have the courage to seriously address these issues until it's too late.
38
@Robin How generous of you to call those who disagree with your Democratic Party-honed views as "proudly ignorant." That is the kind of attitude that won Trump the last election. I would say the alternate to "proudly ignorant" is "proudly superior" to the rest of humankind.
The paucity of impressive candidates on the potential Democratic ticket for President in 2020 indicates that "proudly superior" isn't a winning slogan.
1
None of that is going to happen, it's just our current president throwing out non-existent threats to our security before an election.
While we can't open our borders to the world or even fix the world's poverty and violence no one wins when fear and hate take over.
Mr. Trump has no solutions or even apparently an interest in finding any. So much easier to demonize than think.
26
Maybe we can assist this caravan to continue north right into Canada. Some of us Americans would join them enroute.
20
Some of them may not make it into Canada. There’s a new wave sweeping over Canada about limiting immigration especially in Quebec that is gaining support.
5
@Mac - There is difficulty finding accommodation for the ones that have already crossed illegally. between official ports of entry. Where will they all stay?
@Mac
As a Canadian, I welcome you.
Consider us your safety zone.
1
Asylum~the protection granted by a nation to someone who has left their native country because of persecution.
See "I'm a Child of Immigrants. And I Have a Plan to Fix Immigration" by Sonia Nazario in The Times opinion today. The flow of immigrants is a quarter of what it was in 2000. They are coming from Honduras, Guatemala and ElSalvador. They come because someone back home is trying to harm or kill them.
These people have the right to apply for asylum. Closing the border is not a solution.
12
@Maria - They come because someone back home is trying to harm or kill them. Actually, that does not qualify them for asylum. They say someone is trying to harm them, can they prove why or how?
Article 1 of the Convention, as amended by the 1967 Protocol, defines a refugee as this:[11][12]
A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.
5
@Maria -Closing the border is not a solution? But why didn't the Caravan migrants accept Mexico's offer of asylum. When I was told that I did not believe they had refused asylum in Mexico until I watched a CNN video. The migrants/refugees only want asylum in the US.
12
The Democrats will be faux outraged by this good news. Count on it. We need immigration reform with border security, but they will not cooperate with the President on this national security issue. Why?
34
@Moe Def....On average 600,000 people a day cross our southern border into the U.S. through legal check points. Any one of them could just keep on walking and become an illegal immigrant. Among illegal immigrants already in the U.S. nearly 40% have over stayed their visa. Building a wall won't work and is a huge waste of money. Everyone I know supports a reasonable border security solution, but the border wall is a dumb idea.
12
@Moe Def. That cooperation you refer to is a two way street. Perhaps if the grifter would refrain from his imbecilic antics ther could be agreements. You know the adage about flies, vinegar and honey, I presume.
But will he be able to keep out the unknown Middle Easterners who he alleges are part of the march. Such Middle Easterners are not only unknown, unnamed but also invisible.
12
No, but it would keep out the gang members most assuredly hidden among the throngs.
4
@Michael Anasakta
They could come from any border. A southern border will not stop anyone and is a huge waste of money.
Sounds good to me. I’m tired of footing the cost for individuals or nations who will not take responsibility for their own conduct.
Before I retired from teaching, I saw “entitlement” programs literally overwhelmed with money and supplies (I would actually borrow supplies from them for my students) while many regular classrooms did not have enough textbooks for their classes. Countless times I saw teachers copying parts of textbooks for their students - then get blamed for using too much paper or when the old copier overheated and gave up the ghost... We “starved” our own to “feed” others - all in the name of social and political piety and self-righteousness. Absolutely unforgivable!
Hey I’m politically moderate, the rainbow flag waves out on my patio, and am as concerned as anyone about the current state of our government. But let in thousands of more illegal immigrants who feel that I owe them something, and I’ll help re-elect him in a heartbeat...
66
We starved our own to feed the military-industrial complex and to pay for tax breaks for the rich.
The amount of money devoted to helping 3rd world countries and asylum seekers is minuscule compared to the above.
7
Exactly why are fewer than 6000 people, mostly women and children, all of them exhausted, at least 800 miles from the border and walking at around 2 mph a "national emergency" that the US can't handle without deploying the army in possible violation of our own laws? The problems this "caravan" could possibly cause are being wildly inflated as an election ploy stirring up fear.
It is accurate that immigration is a growing international problem, largely due to climate change. It needs to be handled better.
Most people want an immigration system that works: one that screens for people convicted of serious crimes and terrorists without making other people asking for asylum from death threats (as applies to many of the people in the "caravan") or applying for entry wait years or possibly forever for consideration. On the whole, the economy benefits from orderly immigration that treats applicants humanely and fairly. As has been shown on numerous occasions, even undocumented immigrants in the US pay taxes, often pay for their own health care or go without, and work extremely hard.
21
The caravan is a direct challenge to US sovereignty. It's a direct confrontation. How we handle it may be remembered as a signature event in US history
51
@tigershark......."The caravan is a direct challenge to US sovereignty.".......Oh please. We are talking about 6000 people (already reduced to 4000 people) more than 1000 miles from our border ---- and we are about to be inundated and overwhelmed? Do you remember just before the last midterm election when we were all going to die from ebola virus? This is nothing but a political con job and you have been had.
14
@tigershark Nope. The caravan has nothing to do with sovereignty (do you even know what that means?). The caravan represents refugee families, fleeing violence and economic hardship. The most powerful nation in the world is hardly threatened by a caravan of refugee women and children, hoping for asylum.
4
Or he could write an EO to fund more judges and attorneys to hear the asylum claims, keep the individuals that have no criminal history and want to become citizens, deport the rest and build our economy with fresh young workers, which we desperately need to keep Social Security and Medicare afloat. Our population is aging; we need immigrants since Americans are not having children at a suitable replacement rate. But, of course, that doesn't fire up the GOP base of hate.
22
@Anineno, we don’t need more illegal immigration because we don’t have enough people to support social security. That old story is myth just like the myth that we only have 11million illegals. We have over 25 million and counting. We need immigration reform, now. Not magical thinking or mythologizing.
10
@Anine Brilliant...hire the 17 mother of 2 with a second grade education to do what? Do you believe that she will become a judge? We do not need underpaid immigrants we need young American kids with jobs that pay a decent wage so they can save for college. Go to the immigrant community and see how many 50 something maids speak English after 30 years. Go to any ex-pat community in Central America, Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador and ask an ex-pat how they feel about the locals. Have they ever seen them with a book, would they trust them with their homes? We need people to work, not more illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants only.
6
“The caravan represents such a minuscule number of people..." Yes, but it sets a precedent for millions and millions of others. "Caravan" sounds quaint. "Hoards" doesn't.
59
Fine or imprison anyone who hires an illegal immigrant. Taxpayers are spending a fortune on these people, schooling their kids, treating them in ER's and letting them give birth in our hospitals. The 7000 today, become the 70,000 tomorrow, deport every single one of them. Change the law to address the reality of today, not of 1850. And above all, aid should go to family planning. 17 year olds with two kids and no education are not ideal candidates for citizenship in the US. I don't agree with DJT about anything except this. We should look to some of the Scandinavian countries for examples of how to walk back some of their policies on immigration. Democrats, either respond or you will vote in Trump once again.
62
@thewriterstuff
"Fine or imprison"
There goes Trumps employee base.
Please be clear of a couple things: It is illegal to sneak over the US border, resulting in misdemeanor offenses. However, it is NOT illegal to present yourself to a US border official and request asylum. You are entitled to due process under the law including release and a hearing before a judge. AND, nowhere in US law does it require children to be separated from their parents.
27
@Hootin Annie
These are the questions Trump can't retain in his little mind needless to say one in our government wants to think about.
Why not send US troops into Mexican territory to prevent confrontation at the US border? Mexico has shown her cards.
3
@tigershark You don't see any problem with recommending a military invasion of a neighboring country which has done nothing to threaten the US?
You would mobilize an invasion of Mexico on the excuse that a group of people are legally traveling in their country.
You must be pretty fragile if going to war is how you would deal with people who are legally requesting asylum.
He may not. It would be against the law. The United States of America is a signatory to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, and as such, is forbidden by law from "discriminating against refugees ," "taking exceptional measures against a refugee solely on account of his or her nationality," "imposing penalties on refugees who entered illegally in search of asylum if they present themselves without delay (Article 31), which is commonly interpreted to mean that their unlawful entry and presence ought not to be prosecuted at all," "removing or expelling refugees," and "forcibly returning or "refoul" refugees to the country they've fled from (Article 33)," among others.
I'm surprised that the corporate media is failing to mention this obvious fact when reporting on Trump's "desire" to break the law.
10
@Luis Mendoza, What year was this refugee agreement signed? 1940's? Times have changed. As we should also rescind the 14th amendment.
11
There is no enforcement provision in that treaty. No penalty....And the definition of who gets asylum is left to the country of entry.
No laws, or more appropriately, convention provisions have been broken so far.
1
The caravan is 1,000 miles away and traveling about 10 miles a day, so they should arrive at the border sometime around the end of January, 2019.
I do think the President and his staff of geniuses might try working out a little better solution than a " Call to Arms". Doesn't have a very good ring to it.
Never has this 75 year old seen such a imbecilic Administration in my lifetime.
22
What would Jesus do? what would Muhammad do? What would Ghandi do? What would YOU do ? What should our Nation, descendants of immigrants, do?
4
The Crown Prince, a crown prince wannabe in Florida all inspired by a superhero who runs unarmed into school buildings to confront active shooters and sends armed soldiers to the border to stop a caravan of unarmed immigrants who somehow are deluded into thinking this miserable country has a heart.
4
O my, a 21 billion $ wall not needed after all!
@Mel. Why? They would just walk to a border crossing and ask for asylum. (If their intention is to cross incognito, they are really approaching this wrong.)
1
Of course it is all theater to be forgotten after the mid terms. In the meantime, it takes the focus off the Khashoggi murder and the breifing by the CIA Director now back in town after her breifing in Turkey. We need to know what Haskel learned and has told Trump.
13
An NYT article 2 days ago said "...nearly 400,000 people were apprehended on the border for the fiscal year 2018, which ended Sept. 30." (!)
And my fellow Democrats insist there is no immigration problem. And the NYT continues to call "illegal immigrants" merely "migrants," deliberately obscuring the fact that they are in or trying to enter the U.S. illegally.
No country has open borders, and ours shouldn't, either. Most Americans welcome legal immigrants, but not illegals. US laws allow foreigners to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally and should be detained and deported, as is policy in other countries, too.
We cannot support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is thus utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the hundreds of millions of foreigners who would like to come here.
Why aren't the NYT and the other media looking into the details of the current "caravan"? Who is funding and organizing it? Why are the Red Cross and the UN aiding these invaders? Why are Mexico and other countries abetting this assault on the U.S.? Anyone who believes these poor, uneducated peasants have somehow organized themselves for this journey is deluded.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever accept.
If open borders and abolishing ICE are made planks of the Democratic Party we are doomed to lose the midterm and 2020 elections.
50
Why do you think You are supporting immigrants? Most, if not all, will become hard working contributors to the American workforce. They pay taxes too.
12
And that number is down significantly from 2000. What is happening is a humanitarian crisis, not an immigration crisis.
@Ro Ma
People from other countries have a legal right to come to a legal US entry point and request asylum.
( And I'm pretty certain that they're going to present at a port of entry..... because, well.... somehow I doubt that the 6000+ people in this "Caravan" were - or are - going to try to sneak over our border, especially since they have been followed so closely by journalists.)
The reporters traveling with the caravan report that the people are fleeing violence in their countries and are coming here to request asylum, as they are allowed to under our law.
Note:
They are exercising their legal right to claim asylum in our country.
What they are doing is NOT illegal under US law.
2
I am opposed to allowing a mob to enter this country illegally. It is 3,000 today (the number keeps changing) but if this group succeeds, we will be overwhelmed by successive caravans of hundreds of thousands of uneducated unskilled people all desperate to enter the US. I agree with Trump on this one issue, stop them from coming in. They do not qualify for asylum. Let them go back home or stay in Mexico. For the record, I don't require cheap child care (Yoselyn Ortega is a cautionary tale), I clean my own home and maintain my garden on my own. Merkel allowed in one million migrants. How is that working for Germany?
39
I guess we need to take down that pesky Statue of Liberty and the Emma Lazarus poem at its base welcoming 'the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.' Or maybe just post a large 'Closed' sign hanging from the crown.
Trump plans to reject all requests for asylum. He prefers, in furtherance of his agenda and his pursuit or unlimited power, to halt those with justified claims from even stating their case.
He would have been at the front of the line refusing to let boats loaded with Jews fleeing Nazi Europe dock at US ports and then felt no responsibility when all those sent back were murdered. Not his problem. Same here: these aren't his type of people (White, Christian) so there's no reason to let them in.
5
@Beth - If I read one more reference to the Statue of Liberty and the Emma Lazarus poem as evidence of America's abandoned values I 'll scream. Do go visit Ellis Island and the immigration museum and learn that the wretched refuse and huddled masses were vetted. They had to not be dependent on the public purse and in good health, many were sent back and that was the responsibility of the shipping company that gave them carriage.
10
During the missile crisis, U.S. military planners estimated 261,000 troops, backed by warplanes, destroyers, missiles, et cetera, would be need to invade Cuba, population 10 million.
Now, American xenophobes are quaking in their Guccis that 7,000 unarmed men, women and children — a statistically insignificant number — are going to overrun and conquer the U.S., population 330 million.
The 7,000 Honduran souls would not even make up for the number of gun homicides year in your country.
Thanks to Trump — whose racism is on full display daily — the U.S. is on track to admit even fewer refugees, in raw numbers, than Canada, with a 10th of the population of America.
The U.S. has played a major part in permanently destabilizing Central America. Maybe a little more compassion and less bowel evacuation is in order.
11
Offer jobs in Mexico, they'll wait.
2
Ist he United nations involved in this migration crisis? Instead of screaming what are the solutions.
1
Somebody tell Trump that thousands of Norwegians have infiltrated the caravan. Then he’ll welcome them, and treat them hospitably.
13
Caesar to the Barbarians, you are not allowed to live in the country I have control upon.
3
Trump is such a cynical bully. He's ginning up fear - again - this time of a ragtag bunch of poor people who are fleeing violence in their countries, and who won't be here for a few weeks. What a surprise!?! What is he so afraid of, or why is he trying to make his followers so afraid? He's only trying to scare Republicans to the polls. So guess what, Trump followers: you won't hear anything about "the caravan" after the mid-terms on 6 November. Until then, are you really so afraid of a bunch of poor people who he's already lied to you about (remember him saying there are Middle Eastern terrorists among them)?
14
You know, at some point even the New York Times has to admit that a caravan of 4,000 people headed toward the U.S. border is an anxiety-provoking thought for some of us, as it should be. I also find it disingenuous how this group is collectively referred to as "asylum seekers." That is an out and out presumption, and it is loaded with meaning and intent, as I'm sure you well know.
36
Fix this clearly in your mind: Trump's "anti-immigrant base" is an anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant base. LEGAL immigrants are most certainly welcome.
19
@GWB
Whew! Then those people who are traveling here, fleeing violence in their own countries to claim asylum, will be welcomed with open arms.
After all, it is *legal* under US law for them to claim asylum here.
1
@GWB You are dead wrong about that! The Trump Administration has made it clear that they hate ALL immigrants and even their children! Trump has ordered ICE to kidnap and harass even green card holders who have lived here for decades. Naturalized citizens have also been detained for days and harassed. Asylum seekers who have followed protocol and broken NO laws have been imprisoned and had their families ripped away from them. No. No. Not welcoming AT ALL. And if you’re in favor of this, you’re part of the problem. Immigrants have been a net GAIN to this country. They work hard, build businesses, hire people, pay taxes, buy products , fulfill mortgages, serve on school boards and give their lives in our military! America as been made richer and stronger because of them.
1
@MDLawyer
If an alien claims asylum as a refuge, he or she does have a temporary legal status. If denied asylum, he or she is subject to quick deportation.
If granted asylum as a refuge, then the asylee is most certainly WELCOME. The asylees are legal.
Wonder what kind of cases all those deployed military lawyers will handle?
The US is has turned into the world's largest economic refugee camp. Enough already.
Feed, house and provide medical care to those who need it most here in the US first.
Accepting this continuous mass of millions of uneducated and unskilled is a collective crime against our already struggling poor and those in need like the elderly, handicapped and vets. We currently have a housing shortage and homeless crisis too, if you haven't noticed.
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@Kim..."The US is has turned into the world's largest economic refugee camp"......When Obama left office illegal immigration into the U.S was at a 40 year low. So now, just before the mid term election, 6000 indigent people 1000 miles from our southern border are a national security emergency. Some people can recognize a political con job and some people cannot.
15
@Kim Yup. And here s a scary lil factoid....10,000 Baby Boomers turn 65 EVERY DAY...and half of them consider SS their main source of retirement income.
3
@Kim
The kids at the border get full medical care, including dentistry I was born here, where's my free dentistry?
6
Brilliant move by Trump, as it would surely be condemned by Democrats and overturned by a liberal judge somewhere. Allowing the hordes to swarm into the country. Very back optics foe the Democrats just before Election Day.
6
@M News value: zero. On the contrary, a predictably pandering, posturing move by Trump. We've seen this movie before. There are no hordes: more like moms with babies, teenagers with backpacks, all carrying the sum of their wordly possessions. There is no swarming, only applications for asylum under existing protocols. It has nothing to do with any political party, unless it's punitive GOP policies toward the source countries that only compound the desperation of their citizens.
1
People far beyond Trump's "anti-immigrant base" do make a distinction between someone applying for asylum legally at an official border crossing and people sneaking in someplace else, especially if large numbers of the latter are involved. Even, within Trump's "anti-immigrant base" I'd be curious what proportion hate all potential immigrants, or perhaps even all people living in foreign countries, versus making a distinction between legal immigration (which they may not oppose) and illegal immigration. The Times tends to not make that distinction, either, when talking about immigration.
15
We hear from various legal aid groups that Trump’s anti-immigrant plans are disgraceful, but the real question that seeks an answer:
Is there ANYONE in this Administration that will say NO.
6
@Stan Mulvihill Not as long as their paychecks depend on them saying YES. There are many ways of selling oneself on display in politics today; this is just the most literal.
Uncontrolled immigration will drive American politics farther and farther right when we should be moving left to reach the old center at the very least. Democrats and progressives are mistaken if they believe a majority of native-born and naturalized citizens of any race or national origin are comfortable with continuing illegal entries, liberal asylum policies and lax enforcement. We are already on a slippery slope to fascism. Declaring a "state of emergency" to secure the border could very well be the tipping point. Advocates for undocumented immigrants and migrant asylum seekers need to look at the big picture.
40
@abigail49 No one—except for Trump, Stephen Miller, and their xenophobic stooges—is talking about "uncontrolled immigration." And the people in the caravan, from what I understand, expect an orderly process at the American border where their claims and requests will be reviewed and adjudicated fairly.
7
@Janet I agree, but the Dems are not getting whatever their plan for control is into the public ear past all the noise of Trump. And illegal crossings are still happening. The public perception, accurate or not, remains that Dems are for "amnesty" and "open borders." It will take some concerted effort to dispel that perception and I don't hear Dems doing it.
1
hmmm....Trump defying international laws and treaties. Never saw that coming.
7
If these people make it into the US others will follow using the same methods. The US needs a rational immigration system which filters out gangsters and terrorists. These illegal crossings are a free for all which terrorists and other bad criminals can easily take advantage of.
52
@Peter B, It has been reported that another human 'caravan' is currently forming in El Salvador.
9
@Peter B Only Trump is anticipating "illegal crossings."
4
@Peter B, 2 questions -- do you think the current system doesn't attempt to screen out "gangsters and terrorists"? What has anyone in this "caravan" done that is illegal or a violation of US law?
4
Obama used an executive order to create DACA which he stated more than once it was not legal to do so. He did it because it was in the best interests of these people who were brought here as children and pressure from the left and immigration organizations.
Trump wants to use an executive order to stop illegals from entering our country. He is doing this because it is in the best interests of American citizens and pressure from the majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle that want illegal immigration stopped.
31
@Olivia Trump does not understand the "interests of America" he only understands the "interests of Donald". To believe otherwise is folly.
4
@Olivia They are not illegal before they cross the boarder. They are only illegal after crossing over illegally. According to the government, asylum seekers can seek asylum regardless of how they entered in the States.
2
@Olivia "in the best interests" of American citizens" is that simply another way to say - keeping out anyone unlike yourself?
All current Americans are either Native Americans or descendants of slaves, refugees or immigrants.
About time. People from this caravan and others following should not be allowed to step foot into this country where they will make their phony asylum claims. The asylum laws have to be changed so that people are required to request asylum while in their country, not the US. Anyone apprehended at the border should be deported immediately, all together as a family.
There are 22 million illegals in this country, more than 400,000 reached the US from September 2017-September 2018. This September more than 16,000 made it here. The majority of Americans want illegal immigration stopped. Now.
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@Olivia even though I probably won't change your mind, just want to remind you that assuming things about a group of people is called prejudice. You are pre-judging the caravan marchers as making up stories of suffering so that they get asylum. Jeez. Do you really want to do that?
8
@Olivia These are the same arguments made by the xenophobic mobs who lynched, terrorized, demonized and lobbied to exclude my Italian ancestors 100 years ago, because they came from the wrong country, had the wrong skin tone, spoke the wrong language and practiced the wrong religion. By the company they keep . . . ye shall know them.
“The caravan represents such a minuscule number of people coming toward our border that it just strains credulity to say that this is a national emergency that demands immediate action."
Perhaps what Jennifer Quigley, the refugee specialist does not comprehend regarding the anxiety over the migrant caravan is that it is not the 7000 that are now coming but the millions that will want to follow. It was always argued by NGO groups in the UK that Britain could let in the 3000 migrants waiting in Calais, but then as critics of irregular migration pointed out there would be 10,000 waiting there turn a few months later (the camp did swell to 10,000 before it was dismantled). If President Trump is looking to change and update immigration law then it is a good thing. Look at Europe, revisions are being made around immigration law as in its current form it is unsustainable.
38
This is the one issue where I agree with Trump. I think we have done enough to help the people of Central America and Mexico. Enough is enough, I want to help the homeless and hungry of our country first! When we totally help those in need in the USA then we can consider letting others into our country.
52
@R. Rappa:
We could easily help both but choose not to.
8
@R. Rappa The "president" cut our foreign aid to Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. Is this reaction a surprise to anyone? HE INITIATED THIS.
7
@R. Rappa We cannot allow people to come into this country and claim it as their own... But this is how America was born.
1
There is a powerful "Immigrants, Stay Home" movement taking place across developed countries such as the US, Europe, and Australia. This movement is ushering in not only reductions in immigration, but many other right wing ideas. If liberal parties including the Democrats want things important to their constituents to survive this onslaught, immigration is an easy thing to give up. It's something that benefits those that can't vote. Prioritize the interests of those that can vote, and you will get more votes. Although many Americans think immigration is fine, very few rank it higher than preventing the US from sliding into right wing authoritarianism. Drop this hot potato for the good of the country.
27
It seems odd to me that embedding journalists in with this wave of people has been encouraged by the NYT. This would give them a false hope that their entry was being paid attention to in a positive light (rest assured it is not).
There are no guarantees that these refugees are going to be given access to the USA - more likely they will be intercepted and kept on the Mexican side of the border.
18
@Robert They are not refugees, they are economic migrants. I live in Central America, have lived in Mexico and am a legal naturalized citizen in the US. This is just a photo op that will badly backfire for the democrats.
9
@Robert Embedding journalists and showing the reality on the ground will (and already is doing so) point out the purely political BIG LIE that claims these are terrorists and criminals. More like grannies, Moms w/babes in arms, and kids with backpacks. That's the last thing the right-wing haters want us to see - truth.
Isn't Mexico the first safe country these people reached that is safe? Apply for asylum there, folks. We have immigration indigestion. It's going to take a while to get over it. Haven't you noticed the highly popular "Stay Home" movement all over the world? Please go home because your caravan is driving US governance further to the right.
57
We told the Irish immigrants the same thing during the 1800s but they still came to America.
Historian Kevin Kenny: “The Irish immigrants were mostly unskilled, worked for low wages . . . Native-born workers worried that their own wages would decline . . . Many Americans also feared that the Irish would never advance socially but would instead become the first permanent working class in the United States, threatening the central principle of 19th-century American life: upward social mobility through hard work.”
The Advertiser newspaper in Boston wrote of the Irish as “importing their vile propensities and habits from across the water” and referred to children of immigrants as “wretched offspring.”
The Chicago Post editorialized:“The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses . . . Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country.”
13
@Donald Matson
Is this in response to someone else? I'm just pointing out the very obvious impact of large scale immigration to the US. It is driving governance to the right. Way right. This is an all hands on deck moment to stop the rightward swing. Immigration, frankly, is just about the easiest thing to sacrifice to stop this political shift - because it affects no voters.
2
@Donald Matson Please do not come back with a response to a current problem with something from the 1800's. Finally, take a really good look at Central America (population, wages, politics, corruption) and tell me that you want to import that into the US, because that is what you are opting for. The US needs a rational immigration policy, not some nonsense from 1840. Every other country has one, just try to go to Switzerland, or Peru, or Jamaica, without
appropriate documentation. Doesn't work, I've been to 80 countries, am a legal immigrant and would no sooner break into a country than into a house. I live in Central America. Your logic is illogical.
2
Employers are desperate for entry-level workers; help-wanted signs are everywhere. These people want to work.
2 + 2 = ?
8
@Jonathan Katz These people are coming to work off the books. If they had to pay the same taxes, the same healthcare costs, follow insurance laws and work rules as American citizens, their employment wouldn't be worth it for them or their employers.
This is a class of residents and workers exempt from the same laws and obligations citizens are held accountable for. How is that fair to citizens and businesses following the law?
57
@Jonathan Katz that is true. However, those employers would probably prefer workers who come to the country legally and have been checked to make sure they are not criminals, gangsters or terrorists. The immigration system is broken but allowing a free for all is not an acceptable solution.
9
@CNNNNC OK, then let's figure out a way to make them eligible. They're seeking asylum, or at least fleeing astonishing violence. Sound like decent candidates for citizenship, especially given the need for laborers that, if my 15 years in LA is any indication, white folks simply won't do. Las question: What are you so afraid of?
1