MAGAbomber. Literally. And, told you so.
11
Maybe we'll stop listening to the rush drugbaughs of the world. so sad. he used to be funny too. Anyone remember his tv show? Now that was comedy. His marriage non-disclosure settlements were guffaw able, wiping tears as I type.
2
This "false flag" would NOT "zoom into mainstream" if the mainstream news media didn't report it. There's plenty of talk always going on in the "right-wing fringe" that, thankfully, doesn't make it through the filters of editor's desks. It's your choice, NYT.
9
OK, Registered Republican driving van covered with Trump-fan stickers and anti-CNN stickers, with a solid reputation as a right-wingnut in extremis is secret Democrat(ic) Party operative planning for 20 years for this midterm election.
And, says Trump, the Obamas forged little Barak's birth certificate just so he could grow up and be the first black president with a Muslim father ever to be elected ....
My hovercraft is full of eeels.
6
So now that the(alleged...ha ha)would be bomber has been caught red handed; with his van plastered with vile Trump propaganda ; we can expect Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing crazies are now going to give the world a Big Fat MEA CULPA; right?! HA HA HA HA HA!
7
Oh come on! Think big, really big!!
This is obviously a false false flag conspiracy. The right wing Trumpers clearly made it look like the left wingers implemented a false flag conspiracy. Look how quickly the Trumpers came out with this. Clearly it was scripted and just awaiting mid-term election time to put it into action.
BTW: anybody looking into Russian involvement in this? Chinese? Saudi?
3
This is just the story that drives the extremist narrative on both the left and the right. Lots of denials, “I told you so’”, etc. We have a president who from the earliest days of his campaign talked about the NRA people taking care of Hillary, then exhorting his crowds to scream for her to be locked up, even tho she has never been indicted or convicted of any wrong doing. Cheering supporters on as they beat up protesters, and saying that people who marched under a Nazi flag were “good people”. The left isn’t clean either, but they also haven’t walked into a church or Hindu sanctuary and gunned down unarmed and innocent people; they haven’t forcibly separated small children from their families and “lost “ them. And what they’re really not doing, Fox and Rush, is planting stories, or people like this loser, to drive their narratives. Anyone who believes this is a false story to make the president look bad should be ashamed of themselves and wake up to the reality that we are on the cusp of extremism spilling over the boundaries of restraint. Vladimir, the Russian Cheshire Cat, is all smiles.
7
Yeah here comes Trumps next pardon.
4
thanks for the laugh. even if it was kind of hollow.
3
Now that bombs have been sent I am left scratching my head as to why everyone who received one has not sued the pants off of Fox News their game is all about money take it from them and they will see it is not worth it. Then maybe after removing this cancer my Dad in an assisted living center won't see this trash any longer he hates it
2
And no one is surprise that they are making excuses and STILL creating conspiracies FOR A REPUBLICAN TERRORIST.
DISGRACEFUL.
3
Perhaps there's a leftist nutcase out there who's willing to spread the rumor that the bomber was hired by Sarah H. Sanders & paid by Jared Kushner.
Just as plausible, no?
1
There seems to be a new domestic terrorist threat.
Trumpeteer Terrorists.
Watch out America - they come after anyone who thinks for themselves and believes facts are checkable!!
2
but her emails
10
I bet Trump has Steve Bannon on speed dial, along with his buddies at Fox News of course. I can just imagine the conference call on speakerphone today. First, plant the false flag, then shift the blame over to the democrats and then the go-to, make Trump the victim, and pivot quickly back to the “caravan”!
There is zero chance Trump will ever believe it was a rabid supporter of his who did this. No one knows what this man's motives were, but obviously his targets were Trumps targets, he just added pipe bombs. This is the one step further everyone fears when vitriol catches the imagination of a sick mind.
4
Sez Rush Limbaugh: "Republicans just don't do things like this."
Well, let's be non-partisan about it and say "traditionalist conservatives" (whatever party): Off the top of my head, I can think of a large number of violent acts that stem from traditionalist/conservative ideology—the assassinations of the two Kennedys, MLK, and Malcolm X; Kent State, Selma, Medgar Evers, the three freedom riders in Mississippi, Dylan Roof, Charlottesville, the train guy who knifed two Muslim-Americans, the guy who shot an Indian man outside a restaurant, Pizzagate Man, the pickup-truck dragging death of a black man in Texas, Matthew Shepard, the Norwegian who killed 70+people, Gregory Bush at Kroger, various abortion clinic bombings (never mind the Holocaust)...
I'm hard put to come up with even one such act perpetrated by a liberal or progressive, although I'm SURE there must be at least one. Thrall me with your acumen, Mr. Limbaugh.
9
"The 2016 mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando was thought to be an anti-L.G.B.T. hate crime until further evidence suggested the shooter had no idea it was a gay club."
? So are the reports that we heard at the time, that he had gone to that club several times before the night of the massacre, incorrect? The Vox article that this article links to does not address that question - he surely would have known or suspected that it was a gay club if he had gone there once or more before the shooting.
2
All the "false flag" conspiracy theorists should read this article in the "fake news" Washington Post that shows a photo of Sayoc's van in May 2017, covered with Trump stickers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/26/mail-bomb-suspects-va...
If he got paid to do what the "false flag" conspiracy theorists suggest, including covering his vehicle with those stickers, he must have waited a mere 18 months before doing what he was supposedly paid to do.
He is called a "nut case" by the "false flag" conspiracy theorists.
What nut case shows that kind of discipline?
The "false flag" conspiracy theorists are the nut cases.
2
I love how " Lou Dobbs, the Fox Business host and confidant of President Trump, echoed that line in a tweet that he later deleted". I love to like to see how political hay is being made, or abandoned, by those close to Trump with this nonsense. They know these conspiracy theories are hockum, but they are a part of the game staying in power. Stalin, Mao, Goebbels,.. they all knew , lies help shape the narrative.
4
By the way...this guy did all of this in PLAIN SIGHT.
He posted the targets on his VAN and not one officer pulled him over.
Trump force fed Sayoc the targets and he went after them like a dog with a bone.
Maybe if he had been driving while black he might have been caught sooner. No doubt.
5
Brought to you by the same people responsible for 9/11, the faked moon landings and Pizzagate. The National Association of Tin Foil Hat Makers. The saddest part is so many Americans will believe this as gospel without the slightest doubt in their minds. But the only "false flags" will be Trump and the GOP pretending they are Americans defending freedom.
2
The so-called "False Flag" is another fake news attempt by Republicans to try to get away with murder. We all know that the president and his base supporters engage in fake news on a regular basis. Why should anyone believe the Republican claims regarding "false flag."
I find Trump lying most of the time. His continued fake news and lies are outrageous and should be stopped for the good of the country.
Trump needs to stop inciting violence.
1
It’s actually quite Kafkaesque what Don the Con is up to. Almost every statement out of his mouth is a lie, exaggeration, self-serving non sequitur, coverup, distraction, etc., so he is basically using illogic to attack people who want to think logically. Normally such a person would be dismissed as a waste of oxygen, or institutionalized in an appropriate hospital. Unfortunately due to GOP venality and Democrat incompetence, he has been ‘institutionalized' in the White House. But cheer up, ‘This too shall pass.'
3
Donald must be nervous now, knowing what the people in the front row of his KKKlan rallies are really capable of. He was six feet from Trump, and then attempted the assassination of two former Presidents. Donald will be surrounded tonight by an army, like a frightened little child.
1
“Republicans just don’t do this kind of thing.”
Rush Limbaugh does need to check his facts. Timothy McVeigh, of the Oklahoma City bombing, was a registered Republican.
4
Of course the fact that a homeless psycho living in a van covered with right-wing political stickers appears to be the culprit ABSOLUTELY PROVES that the pipe bombs were the product of a nefarious left-wing "false flag" conspiracy. No respectable God-fearing Republican would ever be caught dead owning such a crummy vehicle.
At some point we will need to start thinking about these behaviors as mental health problems, not political issues. On a certain level it may be good that these disturbed folks have found a loving and supportive peer group in the Republican Party. But the dear old GOP is structurally incapable of providing helpful therapy because it has a clear vested interest in promoting more lunacy. These folks need to be calmed down, not further inflamed. And we need to figure out how and why we have created a society that cranks out such misfits in increasing numbers.
Hate to clue all you lefty's in but if it was conservative done its a safe bet that they all wouldn't have been without a detonation device. Also as another point, who would benefit from such an act? Left wing only would benefit from such an act.
1
@Chuck, I've heard a lot of this "who would benefit?" argument, so I know it's being repeated on Fox News. Are you listening to Lou Dobbs?
Lou Dobbs knows that he's talking nonsense. You're being taken for a ride.
1
Although I agree with what I'm reading in this story, I think it should be marked "Opinion". For instance, can The Times prove the following conjecture -- or, at least, lead readers to the places they can confirm it for themselves?
"It is Mr. Trump, of course, who has done more than any other prominent figure to promote (or in the case of the racist conspiracy theory about Mr. Obama’s birth certificate, to popularize) a number of conspiracy theories. "
I've seen many similar examples in the article. I'm writing this comment now because I can't bring myself to read any more of this article. Again: I agree with what I've read so far, but a newspaper should justify statements like these.
1
Whatever social media has given, it sure seems at times to have taken away more...
False flag? Ok, how about this for a conspiracy theory? Hard Right conservatives talked the Florida bomber into sending these devices. Then, the Right could start the false flag narrative, blaming Democrats for a "false flag". This stirs up the right wing base in anticipation of countering a blue wave on election day?
1
Any media that accepted the false flag theory or gave it credible attention is, by definition, not mainstream. Mainstream means adherence to journalistic standards, which means waiting for the investigation to answer questions rather than assuming or concocting.
that dais, the message is he same regardless of who the culprit was - RAMP DOWN THE RHETORIC ON ALL SIDES, WHETHER THE CULPRIT BE CESAR SAYOC, A FALSE FLAGGER, A RUSSIAN TRYING TO GET US AT EACH OTHER'S THROATS, OR ...
1
Making this story even worse, MAGA-ists will accuse the heroic a truly competent FBI, NYPD and Postal Service with a cover up to extend their conspiracies.
People who make a living conspiracy-peddling with "free speech explosions" intentionally looking to harm as many innocents as possible regardless of the harm caused leans right - just listen to the majority of talk show radicals on the radio. These "conservative media apparatus" people are no better than gun runners or arms dealers causing death and destruction.
Yes, I blame trump and his base of supporters for the MAGA terrorism of the past week. It would not have happened without them. At least that is a more reasonable theory than whatever the right-wing brotherhood can come up with.
"Fact-checking" will not solve the problem. Look at all those who believe in a religion without a shred of facts to support them and a universe of facts against the belief.
"As long as Mr. Trump is in office, conspiracy theorists will continue..." Actually they were here before - look at what Hillary and OBAMA went through - and will continue to be here long after the hoax presidency is over (if ever).
Trump acts as if the failed bombing threat is justified payback for the shooting of Scalise at a baseball practice by another deranged individual.
Instead of "bombs" in quotes as trump has done, we should put "president" and "leader of the free world" in quotes when referring to the charlatan in the WH.
1
I don’t think Limbaugh needs a host of specific example such as abortion clinic bombings to refute the idea that “Republicans just don’t do” violence. Just play a loop of the anger and threats at a Trump rally.
1
My first thoughts about this guy before we knew who did it was he was a right winged terrorist. Then I considered the timing right before elections of the possibility of a left wing terrorist which would make more sense. Everybody in political commentary went to their favorite hobby horse, despite what we know now after many of these stories. The investigation would unravel the story.
Here we have a criminal rather than a mentally ill person. There're many criminals who do stupid things and here we have another one. Some may argue mental illness regardless consider how he intentionally attacked all over the country.
This man is not a typical voter from either party but he shows why we must continually learn about terrorists. Kudos to those who stopped the bombs what ever there intent.
This attack is serious, but so is the political rhetoric from both sides, even those displayed in these responses. We need a break from 24 hour news coverage in politics, social media and demand our politicians work at their jobs at least one year before they hit the political campaign. I believe a break may make us more civil to each other, especially seeing politicians working for the common good, compromising and doing the hard work.
1
@Bill, I believe in civility from all parties, but your comment ignores the elephant in the room. We have a demagogue for president who intentionally inflames people like this bomber, and he returned to his attacks on the media and Democrats the same day the bomber was caught.
We are not in an ordinary situation, and we can't pretend that both sides are to blame. We need to recognize that Donald Trump's behavior is dangerous. We need to denounce demagoguery. Do you agree?
(Btw, how did you ever think a left-wing terrorist made more sense? What was your reasoning?)
1
This article mentions that conspiracy theories thrive when details of an event emerge slowly. Unmentioned though, is the fact that every news story now is broken the moment the media receives the first hints of it and is slowly refined as more facts come in. Seems to me that this is an amplifying factor.
2
So I think this sentence sums it up " The real solution, of course, is likely to be cultural, rather than technological." It is in fact cultural, The new kids get their news from the web. They have been fed from " the black box " since they were born. This " box " has been delivering news and since Watergate has broadcast nothing but miss trust in our government. The news both local and national is not even close to the broadcast of the 60's 70's. Those broadcast had truth and documentation to back up they're stories. They would not say anything that did not check out. They had something that does not exist, well barely, that is INTEGRITY !
It would seem the FBI knows how to do its job sometimes. Maybe they'll revisit the Kavanaugh lies when Congress gets started on its house cleaning come the upcoming election? Just gotta love how Trump's, Rush Limbaugh's and the rest of the GOP's fake news "deep state" players got slammed with a registered Republican terrorist getting arrested with all the "CNN Sucks" stickers plastered all over his van! Truth, justice and the American way might be on the cusp of a serious overhaul for the better come November. First and Second Amendment Rights one way or another will make it happen and the far right needs to stop thinking that they're the only ones who are prepared to exercise those rights in defense of American democracy. As American Revolutionary General John Comstock voiced it, "Live free or die!"
6
We can completely disregard everything coming from the Right in this country until they get a hold of their naked hypocrisy.
People agree with them: REAL AMERICANS.
People disagree with them: FAKE NEWS! FALSE FLAG! CONSPIRACY!
Unless they put reasonable people in charge of their governance, and demand FACTUAL reporting, not jingoistic propaganda from their media outlets, then they have zero credibility and we, the citizens who choose to use our brains, do not owe them any of our attention.
11
Even after Cesar Sayoc was arrested, false flag accusations continued. One tweet noted that a van with that many stickers could not be legally driven, and that the stickers looked fresh and newly placed. Conclusion: The "left" had put it there. No explanation about the guy who owned the van. More proof that we're dealing with a cult. Nothing proves otherwise!
21
OK. Sayoc under custody. Assuming he’s the perp, so much for “false flags”. Just in time for the midterms and those undecided independents and moderate republicans (any left?). Do u “get it” now?
16
MAGAbomber. Say it LOUD, and say it PROUD.
Right, GOP. ?????
15
When faced with a difficult, uncomfortable truth, many people prefer to believe a comfortable lie.
22
Trump's habit of 'implying' evil done by Democrats had now become intentional inciting of his followers to violence. Fake news, body slamming reporters, low IQ Maxine, rough up those suspects, etc are all open invitations toward political violence (terrorism) and fully endorsed by the republican party.
We can change this dialogue November 6th.
Vote.
36
And we are supposed to bend over backwards to get along with these kind of people?
20
@Armo No. Not any longer. They do not appreciate such gestures. Compromise is not in their limited vocabulary.
They are not worth the effort.
@Armo
Forward.
I suppose the leftists plastered the Trump and Pence stickers all over Caesar's van?
13
@Bill Pendergast - George Soros paid for those stickers!
The GOP propaganda equation is really quite simple…anything bad that happens will be blamed on the Democrats ad nauseum and completely independent of evidence. The mantra will be drilled into the reptile portion of the brains of their constituents and passed on until they are in complete belief and in complete outrage. Anger fomented by red herrings gets votes from people that don’t think critically.
Look for the GOP amp to be turned up to 11 right up to the elections.
10
False flag? When Republicans wear our American flag. Red Hat or Coat Tories wrecking our Democracy since 1776!
8
The person(s) responsible are just nuts. This isn't a partisan issue, it's a national issue to stop a crazy person (or a few) and arrest them for terroism. Doesn't matter what their political affiliations are - dem plot, right wing nutjob, doesn't matter! Why, or why, are people so extreme in their thinking? Why just to conspiracy theories? Let the law enforcement agencies investigate and arrest; stop theorizing as you don't know, I don't know, and the NYTimes and media don't know. Once we find out, let's recognize sickness when we see it and not try to tie it to politics.
1
@Ma
" Once we find out, let's recognize sickness when we see it and not try to tie it to politics."
Explain why a guy who posts on pro-Trump websites, wears a MAGA hat at a Trump rally while holding a "CNN Sucks" poster and posts a picture of that, and who then sends bombs ONLY to Democrats should not be identified with the right?
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/suspected-mail-bomber-cesar-sayoc-spotted-at...
This guy SELF-IDENTIFIES with Trump. On what basis are we to ignore that stated position? Because YOU would rather we not "politicize" what this guy politicizes all by himself?
He may be crazy, but his the the right wing's crazy (like a lot more of them).
YOU OWN HIM.
Get over it. (Where have I heard that before?)
1
Of course this is their response. Let’s stop waiting for a crazy minority to normalize. Just outvote them and take the power the rest should already have in the first place.
16
Of course the Right Wing is peddling False Flags. Classic DISinformation. Lies. Deliberate. I wish you'd start calling it that. In addition, Trump's mealy-mouthed words of fake outrage are meaningless - he couldn't wait to whine about how these acts of terrorism were going to hurt the GOP in November. It's all so pathetic and embarrassing.
The MAGAs would be marching and screaming and inciting bloody murder had this been happening to their side.
Divided we are, indeed. Nothing but a full housecleaning will change any of this. It will only get worse, especially since the MAGAs will ignore any truth about any of this as it paints their side in a negative light.
14
I'm watching MSNBC right now and they interviewed people waiting for the Charlotte, NC Trump Rally. The few people they interviewed believed that the Dems still paid this guy to do the bombs......Oh my!!
14
From right wing fringe to media.....it’s called Fox news.
14
Looks like the false flag theory was a giant nothing burger. MAGABOMBER is the correct answer. Thank you for playing. Have a nice day.
13
Dear Rush Limbaugh:
Earlier this week, you helped to spread this False Flag conspiracy theory. Now an arrest has been made, and the perp is one of yours. Please claim ownership, apologize to the American people and get help. Thank you.
42
The bungling republican bomber was too stupid to figure out how to make the bombs go boom.
3
The only place I've read about this at all is right here in this article. Why do you give ridiculous rumors more coverage than they deserve?
@GeneMcKenna - Perhaps because it is part of the complex picture of what is happening. As an outside observer, I have noticed the allegations in the NYT comments claiming that Democrats had sent the bombs to give Republicans a black eye just before the mid-terms. I was wondering if there were a larger story. This news article from a credible news organization tells me it is. Reliable, credible reporting is vital in such fraught times. Don't attack the good guys. We need them.
Perhaps there needs to be a licensing exam to use the internet.
7
Recently one late night when I couldn't sleep I scanned the radio for a show to listen to and came across that Coast to Coast AM show which was 100% conspiracy nonsense. Seems they have millions of listeners!
Yet reading the NYTimes each day one cannot help but notice most of their Trump pieces are 'click bait' and are often devoid of hard facts, so even on the 'left' there are conspiracy theories amok as well.
How I yearn for serious, non hype discourse where both sides are not behaving as rival gangs.
1
@Beth Grant DeRoos I wonder if you differentiate between editorial and commentary pieces, and news reports?
As a conservative I have to admit that when the search focused on Florida I began to worry and checking to see when Trump was last there.
5
"False flag" conjectures miss the point in the same way that other discussions of motivations for violence waste clean thoughts on messy minds. Bottom line: sending bombs to those who express political opinions attacks our democratic principles -- regardless of who sent them and with what intent.
Part of our disunion comes from assuming the worst of those who disagree with us politically. I suggest we move past conjecture to examine speech and acts. Those who advocate bigotry, hatred, and violence deserve scorn whether or not we tag them as racist, sexist, or militarist.
Whether or not a bomber or shooter is demented, deluded, or deceived may affect his sentence, but it does not lessen the criminal nature of his act. Nor does it lessen a democratic society's need to protect free, non-violent discourse.
Now is the time for all lovers of freedom, liberty and democracy to stand together against political violence.
8
When do I get to hear the full throated roar of a Democratic spokesperson condemning Dobbs, Limbaugh and the people who take them seriously?
11
(Very quick note) The false flag gambit was also used to *close* with an enemy so as to capture or destroy him.
Usually, the false flag was lowered at the last minute and the ship's true flag was hoisted.
3
I am afraid that when it comes to conspiracy theories and false social media postings Pandora's Box is now wide open. No matter who wins the next presidential election in 2020, this garbage is here to stay.
2
I think you missed some of Jacob Wohl's more refined accolades, including investment fraud, and disgraced hedge fund manager.
8
CTs are made up mostly of people with profound personality disorders, and/or inordinate fear of exposure of not measuring up. It's a mental deflection and projection of personal inadequacy. It's generally a mild form of psychosis, though it's a feature of full-blown schizophrenia, as well.
Most in this category are also under the illusion that they're a little more intelligent than the average individual, which is why they exude the fake confidence they do in their psychotic ramblings. They're like a cat "hiding" in a grocery bag in the middle of the kitchen floor. The same is hopelessly true for the pathological liar, as these two psychological maladies are inextricably intertwined. Think Saudi Prince. They actually convince themselves that they are superior enough that you won't notice. But, like any dream, when they wake up (the small percentage that actually do), they realize that all they ever were was a psychology case-in-point study to the rest of us, while they detoured into self-absorption of an inferiority/superiority complex.
5
It appears that most , if not all republicans are delusional and have lost any possibility of recovering reasonable thinking . Let hope that the majority of real Americans vote these fraud from office
9
@donald carlon Be careful how you write off and disparage 29% of the electorate! Be careful how you endorse employing the "real Americans" gambit.
Over time, truth usually bubbles to the surface.
Let us hope the free media pushes forward in presenting the truth, while beating down any suppression.
4
The problem is that the Mueller investigation looms large, and that has been already deeply stained with the very earmarks you seem to dismiss, even so early on in the investigation.
2
@Len
what do you mean?
5
@Jay Becks I mean that the evidence that is already proved factual concerning the backstory of the Mueller investigation, compromises so much as to how so many democrats operate, that it doesn't seem so far fetched anymore to think that this new event, the mailed bombs, were not the result of lone nut, but rather a stunt to somehow taint the right and victimize the left.
The “right” cannot be tainted any more effectively than they have already tainted themselves. Every time they collectively or individually open their mouths.
I completely understand where this conspiracy theory came from. So many racist incidents that have grabbed headlines over the past few years have turned out to be perpetrated by the supposed victims. When it's discovered that the incident was fake, there are no headlines. It's simply a matter of "the boy who cried wolf." I admit I was initially suspicious about the identity of this mail bomber due to recent left wing activist tactics.
1
‘So many racist incidents’? Quick, name 3 examples...betcha you can’t.
4
@rpe123, what are you talking about? What racist incidents were perpetrated by the victims? What "recent left wing activist tactics?"
1
Whenever the right accuses the left of doing something awful, you can bet the house it’s because they do that exact thing, only more so.
11
@Dagwood, You may have just committed the crime you accuse the right of committing.
1
I suggest to these conspiracy theory believers that they should try to contact Fox Mulder and Dana Scully to look into these matters. They have had an extraordinary success rate when finding the truth of "The X Files."
7
Why call it a "theory" instead of "disinformation" or "lies"?
17
If people think the false flag theory is ludicrous...well, you're right. But that will not affect its spread among Trump supporters. Consider these two quotes:
"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening," - Donald Trump, July 24, 2018
"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell, 1984
Cesar Sayoc is a harbinger of the new, totalitarian America. In this new America, the truth will simply be whatever Glorious Leader and his apostles on Fox News and Breitbart say it is. And His followers will believe themselves to be "very, very intelligent," just like their Dear Leader.
30
This about the sort of person we expect to find among Trump supporters.
12
The same propagandists who made Cesar Sayoc what he is are now denying that there is a Cesar Sayoc. Instead, they say there is simply some fall guy, and "The Left" has somehow created this massive false flag conspiracy involving FBI and half a dozen law enforcement agencies spread across multiple states. It is insane, but look how all the other would-be Cesar Sayocs are lapping it up.
I hope people realize now Trump supporters, as a group, are never going to "wake up." There will simply be more and more Cesar Sayocs so long as their Glorious Leader continues to goad them with his allies in the propaganda industry. This is a mess that will take a long time to fix, perhaps a generation or two. But step one is to VOTE this November. Trump and his Republican allies are not fit to govern. Look at how Trump has already misused the bully pulpit of his office, and how Republicans have basically enabled him. Sane people need to start taking power away from him and his allies.
21
That's pretty fast for a theory to "develop." The reality is that "quickly providing cover" for their party's leader is a long time standard op from the Republican playbook.
In March 2003 the space shuttle Columbia exploded. The morning after the disaster most of America were waiting to learn if there was a terrorist connection to it. Except for Fox News. Sean Hannity was already blaming the disaster on liberals, Democrats, and Bill Clinton. Deflecting possible association to the Bush administration. Yet utterly false, ridiculous, and any legitimate news source would have immediately retracted the garbage and sent Sean packing.
Same with the blowhards quoted in this article. Only in America can you earn millions spewing false flags garbage to mindless followers.
18
As per your article: "Facebook halted a program last year that labeled false news stories with red flags, after finding that the labels actually induced more people to click."
Don't you realize that this is exactly what this news story does? Your article does nothing more than promulgate the type of news it intends to expose.
9
@RH
Yes, and it sells. Something, even if it's hate-filled, has to pay for the "news".
And Trump will say: “I was to tell you that.”
I have seen posts claiming that the pipe bombs were fake. Can anyone tell me if this is true or false. Thank you.
2
@Gloria these pipe bombs are REAL. Just because they didn't detonate (and thankfully they didn't) doesn't mean they weren't real.
3
@Gloria The FBI has said definitively that the bombs contained "explosive material."
1
@Gloria
1. It is false.
2. Your first step is to check your source. If it is the internet, Fox News or President Trump, see Item #1.
Talk about Cognitive Dissonance! These folks cannot accept an unpalatable reality. Incidentally, people interviewed in a NYT article report having seen this van, with its stickers, in Adventura a while back.
5
The false flag narrative did make sense, heck this was just so lame it had crazy democrat written all over it. Oh, well guess there are a few crazy republicans too.
2
A few? Obviously you’ve never tried to enter a Planned Parenthood. You need an escort and you’re instructed not to make eye contact with the ‘protesters.’
What’s going on with Robert Dear, by the way? Another conservative incited to murder.
If there actually was a ‘deep state,’ they should have shut down these right-wing fanatics years ago.
5
@jaco, it sounds like you were a believer. I hope you've become more skeptical.
The Russian troll factories have been vigorous sources of this kind of story in the past, giving fringe explanations traction in the venues described in this article. How much of a role do they have here?
6
Truth be told, the false flag theory was one of the first things I thought of after the third bomb - all of them unexploded (thankfully).
In my opinion, it simply a matter of trust, or lack thereof. It is difficult in this age of tribalism to trust "the other side." Our first instinct is no longer to respectfully analyze and discuss a situation, but instead to immediately dispute and eventually ignore... based solely on platform.
For myself, a center-left independent, I find myself instinctively questioning both sides at the start. Both parties have me that dissuaded at this point.
Then I take a deep breath an remind myself to keep pushing for a return to civility and - hopefully - unity.
It takes two to tango - and a lot more than that to rebuild the societal trust that has been lost in this country.
5
@htg Bombs and civility are two entirely different topics.
1
@htg
Well stated. I posted a similar comment on another article and was buried by an avalanche of vitriol, which amply demonstrated the point. Civility, honest introspection, and empathy for the other side seem to have lost their way.
@htg, we should all strive for civility and respect.
I'm curious as to why you initially jumped to a false flag explanation of the bombs. Has there ever been a false flag conspiracy theory that turned out to be true?
A false flag accusation is not a theory. It is propaganda. A theory is a set of interconnected scientific ideas supported by factual evidence. Please don't give credence to this corrosive right-wing narrative by referring to it using this misleading language. It contributes to the distortion of our democratic process by supporting false equivalencies in our discourse.
47
@Scott Thank you. Dead right.
3
I’ve known a few of these conspiracy theorists over the years. They delighted in referring to those of us who went to reputable sources as “sheep”.
They carried about them an air of intellectual arrogance, as though only they, with their vast intellects, understand the “real” story. They loved to play games of one upsmanship with their outrageous claims. Most of us quickly realized what frauds they were. But, they convinced just a few, just enough to keep their lies going.
It appears that our County has a lot more of them than I ever would have imagined.
19
@Patrick alexander Absolutely true Patrick. I'm currently reading "Fantasyland: how America went Haywire" by Kurt Andersen, a brilliant well researched and analyzed account, going back 500, of how this country became fertile ground for crackpot propaganda and quack carnival barkers a la Trump, to succeed. It should be mandatory reading for all citizens. Sadly, those more in need to be educated about current politics, will not to touch this book. Sad!
5
They will not touch it, but they are still featured prominently IN it. Sadly.
*Serious Comment*
Its human nature to want to mirror - or apply ones own beliefs when attempting to explain a problem. If the response by some is that these bombings were a false flag enacted by a rival group for political gain, it should be clear warning to all of us how far those close to the Trump would go if the shoe was on the other foot.
*Not Serious Comment*
"Right upset that their plans to execute a false flag prior to the November election was 'taken' by the left".
1
Merchants of doubt, climate change, middle-easterners in the convoy, and if they lose either house or senate, an illegitimate election....this how America dies. And while some few on the left or center follow these lies, the right holds the lion-share, because this is all faith-based truth with no counter claims accepted. They already believe so it must be true...and come he’ll or high water, they will create the necessary facts.
What can we do? The more we point it out the angrier they get!
6
"A false flag is a covert operation designed to deceive; the deception creates the appearance of a particular party, group, or nation being responsible for some activity, disguising the actual source of responsibility.
Political campaigning has a long history of this tactic in various forms, including in person, print media and electronically in recent years."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
Perpetrators of false flags will predictably conflate the false flag hypothesis with "conspiracy theory"...as a way of demeaning and discrediting the false flag hypothesis.
There is a long world history of documented false flags...so the NYTimes conflating the term with "conspriacy theory" is deceptive journalism.
6
Kevin Roose wrote: "Historically, 'false flag' conspiracy theories [...] have remained on the edges of American discourse."
This statement is historically erroneous. A mere backward glance at 1890s American journalism provides a host of evidence to the contrary.
Since The New York Times is seemingly planning a lengthy article on this particular subject in the near future, I hope you consult with historians at Stanford or other reputable institutions regarding the history of "false flag" theories. You might be surprised what they tell you.
3
Trump says "lock him up" just as soon as he votes Republican.
5
‘False Flag’ Theory?
I've got a better name for it, but this is a family newspaper.
6
The color of Lou Dobbs' hair is unnatural, and his news is also unnatural.
6
We need to bring the Fairness Doctrine back post haste.
15
The best part of being a conspiracy monger like Trump, and Dobbs, and Limbaugh, is never having to say you're sorry.
In fact, when was the last time a Republican apologized for anything? Ever?
"What about the Iraq War?", asked the American citizen.
"Never heard of it!", said the Republican, adding, "But have you heard of Benghazi?! Now THAT was a real crime against humanity!"
18
In the face of what we know now to be true....can we expect retractions and apologies from those spouting left wing conspiracy theories? Just kidding.
7
@Dennis W, you mean like KaleGate?! That was a big one on the left. Just kidding.
@Michael Good one!
Why isn’t Jacob Wohl’s Twitter acct suspended or terminated? The platform shouldn’t allow these people to disseminate fake news. This is one of the chief reasons I got off Twitter!
7
@Dan
He has been quiet for 17 hours. MAGGAT brain working overtime about how to save face. Shutting him up for a while is worth something.
1
If Trump had any integrity, which we all know he doesn't, he wd have called all 12 people who received bombs to apologize and promise that his administration wd do all in its power to capture and punish the culprit who did these evil deeds...
however, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that apologizing even enter Trump's mind.
10
Let's not forget that other great tool in the right-wing Republican conspiracy tool box: keep moving the goalpost!
"It's was actually liberals that put all those pro-Trump stickers on that car! They're so sneaky and clever! But, not as cleaver as us conspiracy theorists!"
I think the ultimate appeal of these theories for Republicans is that, like all conspiracies, they can never be proven false. If the facts show that the truth is the exact opposite of the theory, no problem, just change the facts and ignore the truth!
The most dangerous aspect in all this is that the biggest shoveler of this garbage - is the president himself.
During the campaign Trump repeatedly claimed that the election was rigged against him. After he won, that same idea, the one that had been pushing over, and over, and over again so effusively, suddenly became "fake news" and a "witch hunt". See how that works!
It's simple really. As simple as a bunch of idiots in love with his own ignorance. For them, reality itself has become the "real enemy". But, I have a sneaking suspicion that reality is the one that's going to win that war.
To that day!
10
@Chicago Guy
I'm actually starting to fear that reality CAN'T win the wars anymore!
I'm sure this is old news on the mainstream right-wing news sites, but rest assured that the arrest of an apparent right-winger will be explained away by him being a sleeper agent activated in time for the mid-terms. End result is that a grand total of 0 people who are putting forth this theory will have their minds changed.
4
The real "false flag" operation is that photo of Trump hugging Old Glory.
11
MAGABOMBER. Literally.
Case closed, for the Sane.
10
So this is one of Trump’s supporters. No doubt looks like most of the others, and a registered GOP member at that. Pretty scary that people like him sought to put Trump in the WH.
9
The human tendencies- to insist on finding order and to easily abandon clear thinking- are partial explanations of the attractiveness of conspiracy theories which rationalize events and provide a sense of control. But, more than this, individuals subscribing to a conspiracy theory are often tenacious in their belief. That tenaciousness suggests an opportunity: that a warning about misleading information on the internet be the first page seen on beginning Facebook or Twitter, that warning cast in the shape of a conspiracy theory, hoping thereby to generate an instrument which would be attractive and tenacious. For example:
WARNING: This is an uncensored discussion site. Freedom of speech allows dangerous groups to use this site to manipulate you, the reader, with half-truths and lies. You are a potential victim.
The warning could be focused on particular groups of readers. For example, there was recent misuse of WhatsApp in India: false reports of child molestation led Hindus to mob violence and murder. That site might have a warning that would include “ Muslim extremists have been fomenting violence with fictitious information. You are a potential victim of this disinformation.”
Facebook and Twitter aver strong interest in preventing their sites from being used by conspiracy theorists and would possibly volunteer to incorporate such warnings. The warning could be mandated by legislation.
simeon pollack
[email protected]
2
I'm shocked to learn that the (alleged) bomber is a registered Republican who drives a van plastered with Trump/Pence stickers!! What a surprise!
8
While I completely agree with the content of Roose's article, I am troubled at its presence on the front page of the NYT website next to the breaking news stories. This is a well-researched opinion piece that should be classified as such. The NYT is slipping into dangerous territory currently occupied by the worst of television news, where the line between editorial and opinion content is blurred beyond recognition. This newspaper must do better.
2
@Sean give me a break. This is an eminent opinion piece about a current crisis. It is identified as an editorial. The topic of these crazy GOPers blaming democrats is vitally important and needs to be v publicly recognized.
8
@Sean
It was clearly labeled:
A conspiracy theory jumped from the right-wing fringe to the mainstream with unusual speed, our columnist writes.
6
Chris Stirewalt a FOX NEWS Editor was just interviewed by Dana Perino and he said the bombs were fake. SHE DID NOT CORRECT HIM!
8
This has "Russian" written all over it.
1
@AJ Garcia No, just Fox and Trump.
5
The suspects white van is emblematic of all that the right wing nuts and GOP have to offer America: it's an ice-cream truck selling racism, lies, greed, conspiracy theories, and hate.
9
We know all about false flags , and will continue to use them until we win back the White house. Russian Probe is failing ,Kavanagh hearings turned into a PR nightmare for us , Thank Diane, and my DNA results were true , just not North American idgeounse tribe .
What are they going to say now that it's know that Cesar Sayoc, the man suspected, is a registered Republican?
That he is faking his political affiliation?
So bombs are a Democratic thing?
What about the bombing of the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. Two dead, 111 injured. Abortion protest. Other abortion clinics bombed. It's true anti-abortion types often prefer to just shoot their victims.
Aryan Nation.
Ku Klux Klan
Army of God.
Timothy McVeigh.
Dylan Roof. (Oh, he doesn't count, he used a gun).
All crazy, mixed up lefties?
8
The insanity, the rage and the lies keep coming from the far right, white supremacist fringe.
The MAGABomber is one of them, no surprise.
Stop giving them so much media oxygen!
7
Is there a style book or something that requires NYTs writers to be "even-handed"? That's the only explanation I can think of to adduce "MAGAbomb" type statements as evidence that "the left" is also prone to conspiracy theories. I consider myself somewhat conservative in my views, and may even have thought about supporting the Republican party thirty years ago. And I say President Trump's divisive rhetoric will likely drive political violence, and underlies these terrorist attacks in particular. Arriving at that conclusion does not equal "prone to conspiracy theories."
Witness the bumper stickers on the supposed culprit's van, for example.
Calling this out may seem nit-picky. But it muddles the analysis by implying an equivalence where one simply does not exist. For me, that's just sloppy thinking.
Not to mention it's mamby pamby, and we, as Americans are in a struggle for the soul of our country and forcefully stated ideas are the weapons. So, call it like you sees it New York Times, and no apologies.
12
I think this Roose guy gets the Psychology of a conspiracy theorist right: now we have to think of a way to get rid of them, Because ignoring them is that the peril of United States… heck, what was, till a few years ago, the www!
1
@NYTimes Editors - please update this important story with the reaction to the news of the alleged person's political leanings.
8
Mr. Trump is simply desperate to deflect attention from his very obvious inciteful (yes, its a word) statements at his rallies: "Donald Trump on protester: 'I'd like to punch him in the face' ", "President Donald Trump ... praised a congressman’s past assault on a reporter", " [Trump] told audience members he would pay their legal fees if they engaged in violence against protesters", " 'Get him out,' he said of a protester ... 'If you [hurt him], I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it' ", " ... Federal Judge David Hale ... said there was sufficient evidence that the protesters' injuries were a 'direct and proximate result' of Trump's comments ... ", " 'When [police] put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head ... You can take the hand away, OK?' ", etc., etc. Among his many personality disorders, our POTUS is a shameless hypocrite.
11
I wonder if Cesar Sayoc was planning to vote...(with his criminal record and all.)
7
It takes a particular cognition to believe tabloid fodder, like Breitbart. The increasing obstacles to a decent education, where good critical thinking skills are developed, and the lack of civics taught in our schools, have created a large section of the American population predisposed to believe conspiracy theories and North Korean style propaganda.
11
I heard this theory espoused when only the Soros bomb had been reported. We live in a society where, especially but not exclusively on the right and with an obvious example being leadership on the right, facts are ignored, explained or excused if they are inconvenient. You can't rationally argue with people who ignore facts, so divisiveness occurs.
5
Now that a Republican nutcase who "lives w/ mom" when he's not residing in his Trump-branded van has been arrested, I'm sure that Jacob Wohl, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and the other false-flag conspiratists have issued public apologies and promised never to jump to conclusions again.
6
I suppose anyone can register as a Republican and live in a van plastered with pro Trump paraphernalia and send phony pipe bombs. If I was to make a false flag no reason not to make it a really big one, including finding some old white guy living with his mom to take the fall. Keep an eye on where she moves to after he goes to jail. Some boys do really love their mothers.
She’s dead. Another fact you’ll probably have no interest in whatsoever.
Well... recently a California scam artist was caught, he set up a phone bank operation; selling a 'list' of foreclosures, and cheap homes for sale... this fake list was bought for $199. over 100,000 bought this list over 7 years. It made the scam artist $25,000,000... the point of all this is America is a free capitalist country with loads of people making money lying and shooting from the hip, making money off their fellow gullible citizens.
Whether its' Limbaugh, or Fox, or Trump its all the same game to them. The rest of us just sit back and wonder how could folks be so gullible? Isn't there another way for these scoundrels to make a living without tearing at the fabric of the country...
1
This type of reporting is very important. It makes me deeply appreciative of your work, NYT. Please follow with an emphasis on verifiable facts.
6
I so long for the days before Twitter, Facebook and all social media (none of which would ever use) when the cretins who would try to spread this idiocy had little or no megaphones to do it. Sure, Rush Limbaugh has been spreading his poison for decades but even radio can't compare to the virus of social media.
There is truly a place in you-know-where for these people.
7
What is Conspiracy Theory? For NYT, it seems it is any theory that is not their own, and that False Flag Theory is just a subset or all of the Conspiracy Theories.
For example, Mr. Roose defines False Flag Theory, "Historically, “false flag” conspiracy theories — named for a naval maneuver in which a ship flies a different country’s flag in order to trick enemies into retreating or to facilitate an escape. Then, uses the example of the Jewish teenager in Israel who last year, was responsible for a string of bomb threats against Jewish institutions in the United States. This Jewish kid flew a false flag. He made his actions look like those of an Anti-Semite, a radical Islamist. Bravo, Kevin!!! This is an example of a False Flag Conspiracy Theory that actually did occur.
As for Trump's rhetoric, it is not nearly as vile or as motivating as that of Maxine Waters who before Trump's speech advocated for the harassment of Trump Cabinet Members which not only had motivated the left, but the right and center also.
Instead of firing people up, Trump's speech, as well as Waters' speech after the 1992 LA riots, acted to quiet the frenzy. It is called transference. A person, or group of people, feel less agitated when someone of importance acknowledges/empathizes/sympathizes with them. It actually acts to reduce the tension not to inflame it.
@Bridget, you have a creative definition of transference. I assume you mean transference in the sense that a patient transfers feelings or attitudes from a person in the past onto a person in the present, particularly a therapist. There is no psychological theory that demagoguery serves to reduce tensions.
The author correctly identifies the theory about this bomber being a Democrat as a false flag theory, which is a subset of conspiracy thinking. A false flag imagines a covert operation where blame is wrongly placed on one group by (often) their political opponents. For example, many NRA supporters believed that Sandy Hook was a hoax perpetrated by gun control advocates.
When Trump tells you that George Soros is paying Honduran refugees to come to the U.S., he's engaging in false flag conspiracy thinking. The New York Times doesn't engage in conspiracy thinking.
@SandraH. There are many studies demonstrating that empathetic relations help to diffuse anxiety. That is why one of the first things that any counselor, whether drug or mental health, always attempt to determine, is whether there exists friends and/or family to support the client. People who are agitated are calmed when an empathetic person understands why they are agitated. That is all that Trump has done. Just like any good manager would do when employees are upset by company actions.
Does the empathetic friend, family member, manager, or even counselor actually believe or feel the way that the agitated person/people believe or feel? Probably not, but he/she/they are calmed because the agitated person has transferred their feelings/beliefs on to the empathetic person.
Read Csrl Rogers.
As for the other things that you brought up, they have nothing to do with what I am saying.
The Jewish kid in Isreal was a bad example used by the author because it proves that false flag tactics have been used duccessfully. Stick to the argument.
As much as fact-based media outlets debunk these theories, I'm afraid it has little impact on the fact-free world of the conspirasphere. Anybody who believes Trump already has departed from reality.
Now that a picture is emerging of the bomber as a MAGA dimwit, the other kooks are redoubling efforts to insist that he's really a plant by the radical left. I guess this crowd just won't be satisfied with UFOs and Bigfoot.
5
It’s nothing short of mind boggling to what length the “angry mob” formerly known as the Democratic Party is willing to go to!
How they managed to inject a mole into the Trump base, looking to all as a true devotee of the church of MAGA... I mean, let’s face it, the picture montage on the sides of the van is nothing less than diabolical in the cover-up detail this leftist plot to sabotage the mid-terms has gone too!
I think I missed my calling. I should be a writer for Alex Jones!
3
I, for one, can't wait to read all the retractions and apologies from those that spun these conspiracies and false-flag narratives to the public and to the individuals who were targeted, the postal workers who were endangered, and the law enforcement personnel who responded to each incident and found and arrested the culprit.
Then again, I suspect I'm more likely to read further "reports" from Alex Jones and those of his despicable ilk that the Democrats paid the registered Republican right-wing nut job who apparently lived in his van covered in pro-Trump stickers and paraphernalia to send these IEDs to their own leadership in order to sway an election.
"Republicans don't do this sort of thing." Oh really, Rush Limbaugh?
When and how do we start to hold these people accountable for their deception and lies that encourage folks to go out and commit the type of terrible acts that this man from Florida has perpetrated? Why is it now acceptable to completely flout the truth at every turn without so much as an ounce of consequence? That has to change or this won't be the last time some radical nut-job from either side of the political divide attempts to take matters into his own violent hands. The truth matters.
7
The "left-wing media'' created a false narrative itself by trying to link President Trump as a willing motivator in the fake bomb plot...Why no story about that?
@derek. Its his willingness to promote violence...look how many times he has said things about beating people up, admires body slammers, etc. and its people like you who cannot discern the difference between the the lying, hate spewing trump and his bootlickers on fox and those calling them despicable people out for their lies.
5
@derek
No, Derek, you miss the point. We've been saying all along that stoking anger and racism and saying that reporters should be beaten, etc., will eventually lead to actual physical violence. Now that it's happening, people are saying "see, we told you so." It's not a false narrative, it's a self fulfilling prophesy.
7
False flag theories are a problem, without a doubt. but the far bigger problem is the mainstream media that gives legs to this conspiracy derangement narrative that we can expect from the spittle-spewing bloviators of the right. Yes Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson, I'm talking about you.
5
Today we're hearing that actions have consequences as law enforcement has arrested a suspect. Good. But words can create those actions. Trump is morally responsible for ramping up the vitriol in this country. He's not a uniter, he's a divider, playing to his base with insults, lies, and dog whistles that encourage this kind of violence. Today he'll take the high road, but he's been on the low road ever since he started running for president. Shame!
14
Except he took the high road for about 5 minutes before he veered back onto the low road. “Tone it down’? No, gonna tone it up. Swamp water seeks its own level.
Fact-free false flag fables frequently flout the ninth commandment (the most important commandment for politics).
Flouters, you are forewarned. To find forgiveness, forswear them forever.
1
The only reason right wing crackpot conspiracy theories "make it into" the mainstream media is because the mainstream media writes/talks/broadcasts them. Period.
10
The recent arrest puts to rest the fake news false flag claims of the far right.
3
there is no "main stream" GOP left.
9
An excellent book -- False Flag by John Altman -- tells a different story: an fictional international false flag adventure.
Have any of the conspiracy theorists retracted their unsupported allegations in light of the arrest of a suspect who is clearly not a Democrat or a socialist or a radical Islamist? I didn't think so. On to the next "fake" whatever.
11
Misinformation is a very real tactic on the right - and it's obvious that it functions better on the right where messaging is carried out very disciplined by the frothing internet crowd.
The other issue is that the Trump crowd is so fanatic at this point that they will just hold their ears anytime conflicting information is presented (which is basically all the time). And only information coming from the official propaganda outlets is trusted - anything else gets filtered out. As a result, false flag was only possible explanations that was left to pick from for these people.
1
Who is funding these political smut campaigns? Follow the money.
The Russians do not need to spend money on funding Russian trolls, and terrorist states do not need to send their terrorists here to create fear and insecurity to the point that Americans have trouble figuring out what the truth is or if it even matters.
We have all the homegrown trolls, paid liars, and destructive voices right here in the U.S. to do the job.
Let's start with "Truth Matters" to replace "Lies Work," false equivalence, ad hominem attacks, and intentional campaigns of disinformation, misinformation, slander, and rumors planted to frightened people.
Who is paying for all this destabilization and sick behavior produced by the right-wing army of loyalists?
6
conspiracy theory based on false news or fabricated news is not freedom speech. time has come to give a serious thought on the idea. it shopuld start from the top, the president. he should be liable if he open his mouths with words that is not based on real facts analyzed by a commission of both parties and the news media. media is full of fake news as repeated by the president must be stopped by all well wishing parties and individuals - no more twisting of facts by white house. let us form that commission right now.
1
Conspiracy theories like Pizza Gate had dangerous consequences.
Lou Dobbs inciting people by saying that the bombs are a Democrat ploy is dangerous as well
Fox has licenses to operate on the airwaves for their over the air broadcasts. They have a responsibility to the public for that right.
Dobbs should be reprimanded by Fox. Or Fox by the FCC.
10
“Republicans just don’t do this kind of thing,” Mr. Limbaugh said on his radio show. (Critics quickly provided Mr. Limbaugh with plenty of counterexamples, including abortion clinic bombings committed by right-wing extremists.)
Doesn't this suggest all Republicans are right-wing extremists?
3
We need to take a very close look at our education system. Specifically at its monumental failure to teach critical thinking.
8
@DMS, in Swedish high schools they've begun to include classes in logic to counter the massive Kremlin propaganda offensive targeting their government. Sounds like a good idea.
one minute here for a reality check. I'm a moderate liberal. but don't we liberals jump to the same conspiracy theorizing every time every time an event occurs which we feel is "distracting" us from the current trump issue we are focusing on? just read this comment section. nyt readers do it all the time, "oh trump concocted or did this or that to distract us from..." this is not just a one sided problem from conservatives only. just saying...
@bored critic, I've read this comment section, but I don't see anyone saying that Trump concocted or did this, just that his rhetoric is inflammatory.
There are conspiracy theories on the left, although not around this story as far as I can tell. Apparently Russian trolls discovered in 2016 that conspiracy theories have a much bigger audience on the right.
Jared Lee Loughner, an Independent, shot and injured Rep. Gabrielle Gifford, killed six others and wounded a further thirteen.
Rep. Stephen Scalise and six others were shot and injured by James Hodgkinson, an avowed anti-Republican.
Cesar Sayoc, a registered Republican, allegedly sent at least a dozen explosive devices to Democratic political figures and to the offices of CNN. The devices were crude but apparently viable, and fortunately no-one was killed or injured.
Death threats, though not always acted on, are spread around like confetti, to the fear and consternation of the individuals affected and their families.
Surely this must not become the new normal. Even in a brutally partisan environment such as now obtains, surely now is the moment for Americans, and their political representatives together, to call for an end to this.
Let's just stop killing one another. Please.
3
So now there is a suspect. Someone whom is a registered Republican, apparently. What a sweet gift to the Left.
"See. We told you how this would be a Republican inspired by Trump." Yep, what a gift. And just in time for the mid-terms.
Enjoy.
1
@Guy Thompto
"Apparently" a Republican? Look at the photos of his van!
"See. We told you how this would be a Republican inspired by Trump."
And they were right.
And I don't enjoy it. It makes me sick.
It has been heartening to see people pushing back against the false flag argument today. Even in the comment section of Fox News, reasonable voices are pushing back against the conspiracy theorists and their apologists.
4
This column is journalistic malpractice.
"Within hours of the first bomb’s discovery, conservative media figures were openly speculating about the true motives behind the campaign. Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage and other high-profile commentators flocked to an alternative narrative that could explain the targeted threats to top Democrats without blaming those Democrats’ political opponents."
These people are not the "mainstream" media. These people are the loony fringe.
I was expecting to read how the fringe false flag theory made its way to CNN or NBC or PBS, the true mainstream media, and not people who cut and paste their crazy theories only pausing long enough to change the person's name they are attacking.
If the NY Times believes people like the ones Mr. Roose mentions here are mainstream media, then it is safe to say soon all news will be fake news because calling Coulter and Savage "mainstream" is fake news.
6
There's enough blame to go around on both sides. But to say there are no conspiracies or political shenanigans is wrong. When Senator Feinstein was asked about leaking Ford info? Russian election tampering? The whole Kavanaugh hearing? The coronation of HRC by the nytimes and others? Every anti Trump nytimes editorial? The previous administrations attempt to destroy Trumps foreign policy initiatives? Climate change predictions? Oh my favorite how the US Constitution is rigged for Republicans? Who's paying for ANTIFA, the Caravan or universities that teach only Social and Business psychology? Face it the left wing media including the nytimes has found economic salvation in Trump. Did they get him elected?
I could go on about Fox but at least they want to have serious discussions NATO and breaking up monopolies. Not the nytimes.
2
@JoeG, your comment is a treasure trove of rightwing conspiracy theories. You even believe that climate change and the Mueller investigation are liberal conspiracies. You believe that President Obama tried to destroy Trump's foreign policy initiatives (that's a new one--how would Obama do that?)
Reading your comment is discouraging because I realize that objective facts won't matter to you.
And so it turns out that the would-be bomber is a Republican, a member of trump's base, a chewer of trump's red meat, a listener to trump's dog whistles and venomous bile, and a respondent to trump's calls for violence against those who disagree with him.
6
As dangerous as a true conspiracy theorist may be, I have a lot more contempt for the people who know the conspiracy theory is a lie but they spread it anyway, for their own cynical purposes. I include Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump in this group. I'll never adjust to having unashamed liars in our public discourse.
11
Very simply , Trump should be indicted as a co-conspirator with the suspect for inciting and promotinng violence and creating public terror. Any evidence of the suspect at a MAGA rally will be conclusive.
2
On the right wing websites, Breitbart, etc., they're saying this definitely looks like a false flag operation.
The stickers look too new and perfect, they must have just been put on the van. They're not faded, which should have happened in the FL sun.
Also, this is in deep blue S. FL and anyone driving a van like that should have damage from the Democrats who certainly would have vandalized it, triggered by those stickers.
So according to those sites, this is a frame up, false flag.
How soon before Trump is saying all this too.
5
This is not unusual. There’s a ecosystem on the right that quickly coalesces on one story, usually false, and starts mouthing it in unison.
It starts with the RNC war room. Is tweeted around by bit players (Owens, Shapiro, huckabee) Is quickly picked up by Breitbart and Infowars. Moves to Limbaugh -and is then mainstreamed by Lou Dobbs and the Fox News crew of Tucker carlson, Hannity and Laura Ingraham. They bring has-been guests like Newt Gingrich and then its overnighted into Fox and Friends as Trump is waking up and planning how to capitalize on, and sow further, division.
This has happened many times. They’ve just gotten good at coordinating with each other (e.g. how they quickly coalesced in how to attack Warren’s DNA results).
It’s just one team. We should see it as such.
7
At the very top of the mountain of things that bother me about this administration is the tactic of using fake news, conspiracy theories, and labeling accurate news as "fake news" to advance Trump's wealth gathering agenda. This more than bothers me; it scares me. It scares me that people are swallowing lies about the rapidly deteriorating health of the planet, lies about reporters and the free press, about social security and medicare, education, immigration, the state of the economy. It scares me that the fountainhead of fake news and lies is a glib-tongued American president who actively and gleefully pits Americans against Americans. Who paints every ounce of opposition to his agenda as evil, something to be punished. Who cannot understand or appreciate the fact that functioning differing political parties is what made this country great. That in the enormous centuries-long effort to understand one another, to appreciate our differences, and to work out compromises, we grew into this big beautiful country of opportunity. Fake news puts all that at risk. With November 6th right around the corner, the rampant fake news and conspiracy theories manipulate people into voting out of fear and not out of fact-based thought. It scares me that there are voters out there making decisions based on lies. How long can America last, if fake news, lies, and conspiracy theories prevail?
5
I'm already seeing screenshots on Twitter of some website called "mylife" which appears to show that Sayoc is a registered democrat. Apparently someone from QAnon shared it and it's spreading.
I initially tried letting a few of them know that they were mistaken, but was met with a pile-on of angry insults. I should've known better. I just find it so frustrating watching people cling to absolute nonsense.
6
It's a false-flag the minute it doesn't feel good. Newtown didn't feel so good, so false-flag. Las Vegas didn't feel good, so false-flag. 12 pipe-bombs- false-flag. And its a perfect set up- the more painfully obvious the cause, the more painfully tied to the cause it is, the louder the cries of false-flag. This entire segment of the population- and this includes the resident- functions on deniability. That's the only thing that really ruffles Trump about MSB killing Khassogi- MSB failed to provide a neater alternative narrative.
5
How is it that WABC's radio and WNEW-TV continue to receive renewals of their broadcast licenses?
Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Mike Savage? They spread nothing but fake news and conspiracy theories. Now those are resumes we need far fewer of in the Broadcasting industry.
6
Yeah....Trump is the trigger for lot's of odd ball behavior formerly kept under wraps. This is just an extreme example. The guy should be interrogated by a team of shrinks and psychologists to get at what the actual triggering event(s) was. It will allow for a more comprehensive profiling process of individuals going forward. Otherwise...lock him hp.
2
The worst insult Democrats have ever faced is the ludicrous false equivalency hurled by the new Republicans. To put us anywhere near the leaky boat they are in is slander, at best.
Why are they so clueless? Primarily because they hang on every word in talk radio and adopt it all as their world view. They missed the high school classes in critical thinking. They learn their political rigidity from their equally unqualified family members. Can't see the swamp for the one they are in.
11
I was driving across South Dakota yesterday with only FM so was forced to listen to Laura Ingraham and she was adding fuel to the fire. She stated "I won't speculate but sounds coincidental that this is happening around midterms." She didn't say it was democrats but then put on callers who did say it. She went on that they weren't "really bombs" and that the "liberals" were just making a big deal out of it.
5
Saw Fox News while at the gym. Captions identified a “DEVICE”. Not one “explosive” device or bomb reference during the hour I was there!
No wonder the viewership has no clue. Interestingly “Trump” even referenced “Bomb Stuff” in a Twitter comment. Such a brilliant, President!
3
Not to nitpick but the alt-right and fringe right media is indistinguishable from the mainstream conservative media. Some of the writings at WSJ are no less loony that what Alex Jones spouts. The issue is that conservatives have willing allowed the kooks on their side to co-opt their media operations.
10
@Jennifer
The WSJ? In case you didn't know, the WSJ is owned by the same guy who owns Fox News. So it is perfectly understandable that there would be right wing positions expressed in the pages of the WSJ.
4
Are we in a civil war?
Because it sure seems like it.
How long is it going to be before basically everyone who lacks extreme right-wing credentials is going to be intimidated into silence?
11
@Bryan we're in the middle of a media war and I'm uncertain if one of the sides in that way is even aware of it.
They also have the guns
4
@Bigfrog
That seems to be true alright, but which side is the unaware one?
Now that they've caught the lone, Registered Republican whacko who seems to be guilty of these mailings, I'm waiting to hear how the false flag theorists twist it into new efforts to put the blame on Democrats.
You can't fight this kind of theorizing with facts. One can always assert some deviously misleading plan foisted on the public to turn blame away from the real culprit(s), who is really [insert whomever you want to place the blame on here]. No matter what evidence is found to counter a conspiracy theory, one can always assert that the evidence was planted by the conspirators.
it's actually quite fascinating. However tall the house of cards of evidence is built to prove a conspiracy, knocking it down will only convince the conspiracy theorist that it proves the existence of powerful conspirators!
7
@Barry Williams, you're right, there's no reasoning with the RW conspiracy nuts, exactly because there's nothing remotely factual in any of their ravings ... reason has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Of course it goes way beyond just false flagging; all those school and church shootings were acts put on by firearm-hating commies. Picture those two crazy old bats picketing that church in Texas that was shot to pieces, insisting that all those dead and wounded people were "crisis actors."
4
@Barry Williams
"You can't fight this kind of theorizing with facts."
Well, you can fight it with the forceful statement of your point of view, based on real evidence. So let's have more of that.
3
@Fremont Of course you fight it for the sake of reasonable people, sure. But the ones promoting the theories can never be convinced from external sources. The closest it gets is that something happens to convince them to twist their theories around just as crazily, but in a way that points the finger somewhere else. That's rare, but it does happen. Conspiracies within conspiracies! LOL.
"The real solution, of course, is likely to be cultural, rather than technological."
The real solution is education.
17
@BlindStevie education and honesty in media.
1
The fact that the " bomber" was apparently a right wing radical is not important . It could just as easily have been a left wing radical sending bombs to Trump supporters . The important issue is that the extreme nature of Trumps political rhetoric has radicalized both the left and the right. This not only raises the level of anger of both extremes, but adds the appearance of legitimacy to violent actions on both sides .
11
@Charles
It COULD have, sure.
And I understand your point about Trump radicalizing the country.
But let's face it, one side commits far more of these acts than the other, and we shouldn't pretend that isn't so in an effort to reduce extremism.
15
@Charles, no, it couldn't have been "just as easily a left-wing radical." You assume the violence (and threats of same) of the last decade are equal, and they are not. Right-wing terrorism is the chief danger to this country at this point, and the willingness to believe in a ridiculous false-equivalance narrative is a disease bordering on psychosis, apparently impermeable to facts for some ... the vast majority of whom are probably Faux Nooz junkies.
8
I guess that the cultists spreading these theories forgot the sending pipe bombs in the mail can get one into serious legal jeopardy, as we are about to find out. I guess in their minds the benefit would outweigh that cost.
2
The pro-Trump faction is dug in and always has been. They have an excuse for everything, denying and/or conforming any fact to their convoluted world view.
There is no convincing them, they are lost to reason. The only remedy is for Dems, independents and educated Republicans to vote them out on November 6th.
If at least one majority in Congress does not change and put the brakes on Trump and his Republican appeasers, we may not get another chance at a return to normalcy, and a functioning democratic government.
33
@Dan88
You're right. There is no convincing them, because they want the opposition in this country to just somehow go away, to not exist. If you're not with them, you're basically a foreigner in this country.
5
I'm heartened by the speed with which the Times has identified and debunked these conspiracies. We're learning, folks. Things will get better.
Probably many people aren't surprised by these new conspiracies. They fit a pattern.
Conspiracy thinking (please don't call them theories) have well-worn patterns. They can be classified, anticipated, and preempted. It will take work, but mass and social media platforms can, and probably will, adapt.
Conspiracy thinking thrives in uncertainty and ignorance. 9/11 conspiracies needed ignorance of the how weakened steel behaves. Climate change conspiracies exploit natural scientific uncertainty. An unfolding event, like the bombing campaign, is perfect, because little is actually known.
So the response that impresses me isn't the rapid development of the conspiracy, but the quick identification of it.
15
@Brian Yeah, those 9/11 conspiracy theories are CRAZY, right?
It's actually amazing we use steel for building towers at all, considering how many of them collapse neatly into their own footprint when the top of the tower is hit by a plane or set on fire. I mean, look into how many of them just give up and collapse for no apparent reason. Whoo-wee, it's ASTOUNDING how many towers have fallen due to fire and plane hits...look into it, you'll be amazed at the number...
Blame Trump for starting/encouraging this twist of likelihood as to the source of this terrorist attack against persons associated with the Democratic Party. After inciting his supporters to violence so frequently, Trump tweeted hype to the effect that the "bombs" sent through the mails to his political opponents and critics were not real and implying that it was a Democratic political stunt to create false suspicion against his supporters.
Gov. Como was right in saying this evening that when America stops buying Trump's lies, he'll stop selling them, but not before.
59
What else is new? Time after time all these conspiracy theorists love to accuse the Democrats, the Liberals, the Socialists, and anyone else that they do not agree with.
I was mildly surprised to see that the "has-been" old fool Lou Dobbs had posted about "fake news" and "fake bombs". How would he had felt if one of those "fake bombs" had ended up in his mailbox? Would it had been fake?
What do these right-wing conspiracy theorists have to say now about the man that was arrested for the bombs? If I am not mistaken he seems to be a Trump lover.
21
@George M. They are saying that he is a registered Democrat and that all the stickers were obviously brand new so it is obviously a left-wing plot.
1
@Pferdchen
Who's saying he is a registered Democrat? The right-wing conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and on and on ?
"Turbo charged conspiratorial thinking." Yes. My mother used to say about outlandish ideas/ behavior when I was young, "Your grandparents would be rolling over in their graves if they could hear you/see you saying/doing that." In my young mind I imagined a cemetery wherein @ any given moment a deceased elder would "roll over," horrified by some behavior or verbalized idea of their descendants. Now in my advanced age, the correlation to that imagery is graveyards full of the signators of our Declaration of Independence, of our United States Constitution, our nation's founders - all rolling over in their graves at the convoluted conspiracies our current administration suggests; for example that Democrats are behind pipe bombs sent to prominent Democrats in order to cast blame on Republicans. What sort of illogical brain comes up with theories like that? Worse, why do normally intelligent people accept them?
7
@Marian O`Brien Paul I have come to believe that whatever Trump accuses someone of, he is actually doing.
4
@Marian O`Brien Paul
Nowadays, they wouldn't just 'roll over.' They'd spin like tops.
1
Not unusual : If a theory fit "Cui bono" it goes
American sociologist Peter Blau has used the concept of cui bono to differentiate organizations by whom has primarily benefited: owners; members; specific others; or the general society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono
@Gerhard: "cui bono?"
simply put: "who benefits?"
THE BIG QUESTION TO ASK, ALWAYS,
before proceding with any other inquiry.
marcus tullius cicero used it first, way back when,
to identify crime suspects, for instance.
it works for all other walks of life, as well.
find out who benefits from the current mess[es]. *)
then decide who you truly want to side with.
___________
*) but maybe that's too much to ask of some people?
It just occurred to me that one reason Trump’s red MAGA hats are so popular is that they are more comfortable to wear than tinfoil apparel.
40
@Hugh Wudathunket
Perhaps more comfortable than tinfoil but clearly not as effective.
2
@Hugh Wudathunket
It's the new fashion form, making one easily identifiable... the Red Dunce Cap
3
Isaiah Berlin famously divided influencers in to two species: "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.” Concentrating on intellectuals, he missed the species that is currently dominating political discourse - it knows a little about one big thing. Add the the Fox and Hedgehog, the Termite.
2
Republican playbook:
Deny;
Say fake news;
Call false flag; and/or
Blame/undermine victim
It's their MO. Whenever there is negative information that's the playbook they go with- then their message is amplified through social media. Truth no longer means anything to them.
Sad.
40
As the world knows by now, Donald Trump is vile, vulgar, immoral, corrupt, and lawless. We are all well aware that his words are more often than not lies.
As POTUS, the character of the man, his words and his actions have outsized influence on the national zeitgeist. Trump has sickened the nation's mood like a rampant pestilence.
The Trump malady has infected the entire Republican party, who rally to his defense by any means necessary, no matter what he says or does.
It has also spread to the masses. It leads some to deliriously promote imaginary events. Others are driven to acts of anarchistic violence.
Others are lining up now to vote for Republican candidates who will help to further spread the Trump contagion.
The way to cure this and bring back a healthier, more positive level of energy is to get out and VOTE, for any candidate that is NOT REPUBLICAN.
Get better, America.
18
@entity.z: we need more positive energy levels
in europe, africa, asia, latin america, too.
the [f]right-swings are so widespread by now.
like it or not:
we will either flourish or perish together.
There needs to be more emphasis on Fox News as an instigator, along with Trump.
143
@Craig
I agree. I have wondered about this for years. Long before Mr. Birther.
Why would you, a true journalist, allow those propagandists to be called the same? I would be infuriated. The incredible journalistic investigations done at the NYT and the hate, fear mongering, conspiracy theories, etc. being spewed from Faux News being compared as apples to apples?
That is like saying TIME magazine and the National Enquirer are comparable.
Come on MSM take them on.
3
This insanity will keep escalating. Eerily familiar progression in the severity and violence of words and acts, instigated by the president, embraced by excited supporters and tolerated by many others (who disapprove of the style but agree with the substance). This can't end well.
10
Conspiracy theories are honest enough in the beginning. A conspiracy theory starts as an untested hypothesis. Technically speaking, a left-wing agitator was not an unreasonable hypothesis. The Trump base entrenched their defiance after the ball park shooting. You don't need to be a chess master to see how bombing Robert De Niro would be bad for Trump.
The problem with conspiracies though is they persist even after the hypothesis is tested. We don't know the bomber's exact motives yet. However, the police have a suspect and he does not fit the description of a left-wing agitator. The hypothesis has been tested. The theory is rejected. Unless there's some new evidence to the contrary, the conspiracy is dead.
Certain elements of the media though intentionally recycle defunct theories for personal and political gain. Trump is roster man number one. However, you can throw so many personalities onto the list, I doubt you'd ever find an end. The message Trump is sending: dishonesty works so don't be honest. He wants what he wants and truth be forgotten.
That's why we're struggling in America today. I'm only still confused by who buys this nonsense.
9
@Andy
It is so scary how Trump's base will follow him whether he is right or wrong, kind or cruel. So much of Trump's behavior and strategy reminds me of Hitler's rise in the 30's, so many lies and false promises, and finally total destruction. I just finished Toland's book, Adolf HItler: The Definitive Biography and see so many similarities between these two men.
1
The packages were all the same, poorly disguised, sent to those with the most security first, and the timing couldn't be any worse for Republicans. Even the stickers on the van were over the top, and it's been parked in conspicuous locations. It's difficult to believe someone would be so stupid.
But yeah, I think he's for real.
1
The false flag story is not fringe; Lou Dobbs is not fringe, he is mainstream. Fox is not a fringe; it is the mainstream media that aims to place the blame on others, and the bomber (and Trump) as victims. The same people will claim that the person caught was a left wing set up. And, if he were to go free, people at Trump rallies will react with jubilation (they did the same when cops who had shot blacks on camera were set free).
16
@Kalidan
We may fail as a democracy is this is not corrected by a cultural change! Should this be our true character to blame others first, before taking responsibility for out actions?
What has happened to our leadership???
1
@Kalidan
Absolutely right! For Fox to claim that it is somehow an alternative to the mainstream is completely disingenuous. What was far-right propaganda once is now part of mainstream American culture.
1
‘...to paint conservatives as violent radicals ahead of the elections next month”.
Looks like the false flag theory went down the drain given that the suspects van was plastered with Trump political messaging.
10
They ARE fake news, exactly. But instead you spend an entire story calling them "theories" and then write, "Conspiracy theories are not false news, exactly." They are lies meant to paint a false picture of the world. You should say so right out loud and right up front.
8
I thought felons in Florida weren't allowed to vote...yet the reporting indicates the suspect is registered Republican.
14
There was a story earlier this week about how governor Rick Scott arranged for tens of thousands of white felons to vote, but he did not intervene in the same manner to help black felons.
2
@jg
Someone get Kris Kobach on this case of voter fraud, stat!
2
From the look of Cesar's van, good luck disassociating this incident from the MAGAbomb tag
19
Deep cover. Only with funding from George Soros could a guy living in a van afford that many stickers. That should pass muster as overwhelming circumstantial evidence among the MAGA crowd. LOL.
2
Funny how conspiracy theories about an organized left (an oxymoron. Ever try to organize leftists?) get believe yet somehow, it is not believed if someone were to say the caravans in Mexico were a right wing plot to influence the mid terms
2
Where are Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh? Ann Coulter, did you lost your voice? Time to man upu and apologize for crazy fals flag stories?
41
You know they will double down and continue the moment. Under no circumstances can the Limbaughs, Dobbs-es, Ingrahams, et. al., allow their voters to deviate one whit from the proscribed course.
18
@LaVerne Wheeler
Nor can they every admit that they are wrong about anything!
The Sinclair Broadcast group is directly behind "Mainstreaming" false flag theories. They own 204 broadcast stations in major markets, ONLY ABOUT 50 ARE FOX affiliates. So, when you are watching ABC, or NBC, or CBS, and you see a local reporter misinforming the public, it may be "mandatory" from the Sinclair Broadcast Group home office.
22
Sinclair Media does not utilize the national networks. And “local news” is not the same as Sinclair. They utilize independent stations, then switch their programming protocols. Local news is affiliated with one of the national networks, or their affiliate.
1
@LaVerne Wheeler
That's false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_owned_or_operated_by_Sinc...
33 ABC affiliates, 27 CBS, 22 NBC.
“If we had President Jeb Bush, we wouldn’t be wondering if he believed these theories,” Mr. Uscinski said.
That's true: instead we'd be wondering if he believed Saddam had nukes or was behind 9/11. And, more generally, whether he would, like his father and brother, conceal important facts from the public to mislead us into war. Which we would also be wondering about if we had President Hillary Clinton (who at State enabled a coup in Honduras--you could look it up).
DT's style is unprecedented, but his ethics in matters of policy are par for the course.
If we want more effective domestic policy, any Democrat will do. But if we want honest open debate about foreign policy (for the first time ever), we need someone like Bernie Sanders (and someone like Zinn or Chomsky at State).
And before we laugh at people for appearing to give credence to absurd lies and overlooking obvious truths despite easily available evidence, we should take a good hard look in the mirror.
7
Really??! Feeling so badly for you; and at the same time seriously hoping you do not have access to citizens’ personal confidential information. Also hoping you do not drive.
1
@LaVerne Wheeler
He shouldn't be allowed to drive for telling the truth?
Wow, that didn't take long. I was just chatting with George the other day, and he said he hoped he wouldn't be outed until after the election. I tell you, that Soros guy just has no luck. He spent a bundle on the fancy pipe (Barack's idea) and the Semtex, too. Oh well, the Dems are doomed in any case, right?
@MikeG
Was it Wasserman Schultz or Andrew Gillum who took the time to painstakingly plaster those stickers all over that poor man's van?
2
George is no leader. He stole the idea from Hillary. It was in her emails.
2
Those who posit the false flag argument, need only read this man's criminal history - available for all to see. Of course the Trump trolls don't want facts, they cling to conspiracy theories. For them,it's 'manna from heaven.'
8
Cognitive dissonance is one of the most powerful psychological forces. I just came off of Breitbart where the majority are still proudly wearing their tin foil hats. The guy is a troubled, criminal nutcase. Big duh! He happens to be a Trump supporter just as any normal person would expect, which proves absolutely nothing beyond the fact that he is a troubled, criminal nutcase. The only silver lining here is that he is not a left wing nutcase which would give the Idiot-In-Chief plenty of excuse to spout a lot more incendiary nonsense.
7
Except, of course, for the fact that MANY Trump supporters are "nutcases"! MANY. Probably a majority!
The NYT over the years seems to have developed a reputation for having a Liberal bias when it comes to politics and the economy. This suspect has been portrayed as a homeless individual having gone through bankruptcy, and living with his mother...but his van looks in excellent condition and very attractive for belonging to a homeless individual.
2
@DFR The NYT remains the best fact-based newspaper in the United States.
21
Hmmmmm, Trump has gone through bankruptcy SEVERAL times! What, sir, is your point, exactly?
4
@DFR
"but his van looks in excellent condition and very attractive"
When you don't have to pay rent, you have more money for other things.
Wow, it wasn’t a Democrat Liberal conspiracy. Fox “News” and Rush Limbaugh must be so upset.
And, Mr. Trump, I guess that the “bombs” you tweeted about were real.
When will the adults in the White House take away Donny’s phone? He needs to be in timeout.
9
This story begs for further coverage about the connection between violent rhetoric from leaders and violent actions some of their followers. The fact that bombers and other violent perpetrators are already on the edge provides cover for people like Trump, who will claim that this guy was simply a sick criminal and not representative of his followers. Such an argument is a red herring. The question is not whether this guy is a Trump supporter. It’s whether he would have committed these acts of terrorism without Trump’s leadership. Like many powerful bullies, Trump does not have to direct terrorists to act, he only needs to suggest (or “joke”) that violence against political opponents is laudable and leave the dirty work to those marginalized by mental illness or antisocial propensities.
21
@Nancy
Bingo. For examples of the pheonomenon you depict, see ISIS and Al Qaeda. Very little to distinguish between the implied social contracts at play here. And the Emperor knows it.
3
So, will we see Ann Coulter and others of her ilk apologize for their false accusations and fake news? Not likely - Ms Coulter will just join the ranks of Alex Jones, denying the Sandy Hook massacre, and other pathological deniers of reality.
9
Haiku
"False flag" narrative
Now officially debunked--
Trumper mailed the bombs.
5
I expected more. A strong rumor that Barack Obama was seen at the post office, mailing a suspcious package.
4
Now that we see that the arrested suspect is a registered REPUBLICAN, so much for the False Flag theory put forth by the conservatives!!!
6
There is always higher level of stupidity. You never reach the limit.
2
Fox News isn't Mainstream. It's propaganda.
48
@Scott Bodenheimer Most popular 'news' network in the country. It is, sadly, both propaganda and mainstream.
4
@Scott Bodenheimer
You are right. But millions of people THINK its mainstream, and that's the problem!
1
Criminals often blame the innocent to escape backlash for crimes or actions they have helped instigate.
So the repubs spread a fake news story or FALSE FLAG to deflect the attention away from trump and his base of hate.
This is just the beginning of the conservatives/ extremists actions to keep trump and repubs in office.
2018 / 2020
VOTE AS IF YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS and our DEMOCRACY DEPEND ON IT!!
7
Oops another republican lie exposed. The bombing suspect is a registered Repub living in a van covered in trump stickers. Hate makes his "followers" do crazy dangerous things. Does trump admonish them to stop? No.
6
Michelle Goldberg can say that Democrats don't do these kinds of things, then assert that violence on the left isn't really Democrats. She gets printed. If Limbaugh says Republicans don't do that, then the NY times insists that extremists on the right are indeed Republicans. I don't see shooting Congressman at preparing for a charity event in the Democrat Platform. So, ok. He was an individual, making his own perverse choice. I don't see mail bombing in the Republican platform, but the Left wing still gets to hang that on Republicans anyway. And so the self-serving arrogance continues. So the next time the Times and other journalists chafe at chants of fake news and unmitigated bias, keep in mind it is not without justification.
Check the stats. Of the politically motivated violence in America over the last decade , the Left is responsible for roughly 3%. The Right is responsible for 71%. But please, tell me again how this is a both sides issue
9
@TD
And I don't see any Democrats holding weekly "rallies" for the express purpose of strutting the stage like a pompous doofus, exhorting the crowd to attack anyone amongst them who disagrees, promising to pay their legal bills if they do, alluding to actual blackmail material he holds on various senators, and calling the press "the enemy of the people," to name just a few fan favorites.
5
@TD No, you actually have not made your case, although it's not really clear what you are trying to state. Ms. Goldberg is not the NYT news, she is an opinion columnist. You surely understand this distinction? As a matter of genuine fact, those who bomb Planned Parenthood clinics tend not to be Democrats, but are to the Republican side. Remember when Trump started that women who had abortions should be punished (once he has changed the laws), although he had to retract that statement once somewhat more reasonable people heard it? He who attended a pro-Trump/white "nationalist" rally and who drove his car into a crowd was surely not a Democrat. Only the delusional will pretend that Democrats are claiming that mailing bombs in being hung on Republicans. No, the tenor that Herr Trump is actively promoting does set the stage for unbalanced people. Which political party references "second amendment solutions"?
2
Trump yells "fire" which gets him cheers that prop up his ego and fan adulation from less than sober-minded citizens. It is clear there needs to be an investigation of parallels to yelling "fire" that leads to real threats. A tough legal area given the First Amendment but long held social norms are failing our democracy. We need a better defense against stupid. Social media has to address wild claims and the intentional originators need to be reined in.
2
Oh, yes, we wouldn't want to "silence" those wonderfully creative "conservative voices." Better to let a thousand (toxic, fact-free) conspiracy theories bloom.
3
These conspiracy theorists and theories regarding the bombings shows again what a bunch of nut cases support Trump. I am a former Republican that did not always vote Republican. But now there is no choice. The Republicans have become a cult with no regard for what's best for the nation, only what's best for Republicans, especially wealthy ones. I have now donated practically everyday to Democratic candidates and causes and am praying that the Blue Wave occurs.
11
A fundamental truth in life is that if you need to posit a conspiracy in order to make your argument, then you've effectively admitted that you have a pretty weak argument. In that, the alt-righters and Fox "News" commentators are no different than the flat-earthers or the moon-conspiracy nuts. Being unable to articulate or justify their views with coherent real-world arguments, they invariably fall back on the pernicious evils of the "deep" state, or Illuminati, or the local witches' coven, or whatever. It's worse than annoying -- it's lazy.
136
@curious
They also have long ago lost the privilege of referring to themselves as "news."
11
...let's not forget DANGEROUS!!!!
8
@curious
I would say by definition conspiracy theorists try to drive wedges into the cracks of knowable information. By the same token though, so do academics.The primary difference though is the scientific method. Academics are generally willing to accept a negative result. Conspiracy theorists are intentionally exploiting gaps in our knowledge which can never be proven.
I can never prove whether someone has ever walked on the moon. However, there is a substantial body of evidence that says Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. A conspiracy theorist will ingore the evidence and focus on the fact that indisputable proof is unattainable. Illogical maybe, but not indisputable.
4
The ‘false flag’ comments of conservative conspiracy theorists certainly demonstrated their true colors. To quote Maya Angelou, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them”. Trump and some of his most ardent supporters have truly demonstrated who they are; the picture is one of vile viciousness. I believe them.
164
They're already at it again: Now it's the "stickers on the van look too new," implying the FBI/Dems orchestrating this conspiracy had them placed on the van right before covering it up.
I should have known that Twitter is full of sticker-placement experts, just as it is awash in forensics, law enforcement investigation specialists. The FBI and CIA should just start recruiting these keen observers to their ranks, given their extensive "skill sets."
This country's citizens are so divorced from reality, that it is beyond the point of no return.
19
This false flag conspiracy nonsense is similar to gaslighting. Done often enough, it begins to sound true. It takes alot of energy and intelligence to figure out what is actually happening. While I do not doubt the former as far as these people go, I do doubt the latter.
6
Please stop referring to right wing lies as "theories". A theory implies reasoned thinking built on a logical premise. A lie is an intentionally false statement intended to deceive or confuse. These "false flag" lies are not theories. They are not built on anything except hate and spite. Do not give them credence by elevating them to "theories".
25
@S Jones How about "false flag fabrications?" The sick/sad part of these conspiracy fabrications is that most often the creators truly do believe them. "Lie" seems a bit too premeditated with the intention to mislead. That label gets enough accurate usage in describing Trump and his minions.
1
@S Jones
Agree! They are conspiracy tales.
2
@Celtique Goddess
You're right. They aren't liars, they are in denial!
This isn't Grassy Knoll or Fake Moon Landing conspiracy theories. This is an entire political base - tens of millions of people who have been instructed only to believe what Trump tells them. These are uncharted waters ... for this country anyway.
11
@gdurt
"I say this all by way of warning,
Now we are launched upon this dangerous sea.
Consider of it."
Pedro Calderón de la Barca
Real false flag operations must provide a logical benefit to the perpetrators. The trick is to do minor damage to one's own interest in order to gain a larger benefit by blaming one's opponents. Destroying the Democratic Party leadership and the most outspoken opponents of Trump would not have been a minor loss to Democrats, it would have been very major, borne of real hatred, and it could not have provided any Democrat a logical benefit. So if the bombs were explodable, the false flag theory is preposterous. If they weren't capable of detonating, then we might consider that perhaps someone would see a benefit in creating the appearance or threat of harm to Democrats, which might indeed cast suspicion on Republicans without substantially harming the Democrats. One thing I think is certain is that Trump's incitements to feelings of victimization, fear, hate and violence follow an age-old path to power that has been proven to lead to actual and horrific violence in the past. People at high levels in government and law enforcement should have repudiated this tactic with one voice. Instead we have had people like Attorney General Jeff Sessions joining in the chant against Hillary Clinton to "Lock her up", Republicans in Congress defending Trump, and the many people who are apparently proud to be part of Trump's administration all the while that he whips up his audiences by smearing his enemies.
2
@Anne Sherrod
Don't be too sure, in the 19th century in Russia, a police spy blew up the chief of police in order to prove his bona fides to the group he was infiltrating.
Cesar Sayoc has put paid to the false-flag theories: he's a hard-core Trumper, and his social media is full of right-wing memes and conspiracy theories.
I will take long odds that inquiry into Cesar Sayoc's social media will show him embracing false-flag theories about the Florida school shooting, Newtown, etc. That's a winning bet.
The Trumpist right in America has gazed deeply, deeply, into the abyss for so long that it now has inescapably locked eyes with the abyss. They don't know how to look away. As Michael Gerson said in the Post today, Trump blaming the media for this is like the leper blaming the mirror for his sores.
8
Oh, please - the false flag accusation came out within minutes. Whenever some event occurs that the right finds inconvenient, they immediately go to their reflexive responses:
1) Fake News
2) False Flag
3) Lone wolf
4) Both sides!
It's an established go-to set of excuses. Excuses 2-3 are routinely used for mass shootings, Excuse 1 is a Trump original, and Excuse 4 is the go-to deflection favored by media pundits anxious to avoid having the right attack them as partisan.
It's time to force Republicans o start taking responsibility for the inevitable result of following the Newt Gingrich playbook of demonizing opponents. But then, Republicans have to date successfully snookered the media into allowing Republicans to both describe Democrats as "traitors who hate America" and also blame Democrats for a lack of civility. Why would Republicans change their tactics - hypocrisy and flat-out lies are winning them elections.
45
Herein lies the biggest problem of the last 20+ years among a large portion of the populace, within not just the US but the western world as well. Conspiracy theories are believed by a significant minority, with the basic premise among all theories that the government cannot be trusted. From the far-fetched theories (i.e the moon landing) and the 9/11 theory of an inside job, to hundreds of various conspiracy theories spread in just the last few years alone thanks to social media and right-wing radio in particular. With Trump as President, fear and paranoia based predominantly on conspiracies, a great many just can't seem to think clearly.
It is sad that through it all, there is not enough common sense out there. If there was, Trump would have never come close to even becoming president.
I do, however, question the assassination of JFK. I will always remain unsatisfied with the Warren Commission Report. I can see that there is a slippery slope that if you feel the government has lied to you once, they could probably lie again. Nevertheless, any other conspiracy theory can so easily be debunked just by simple research and reading.
4
I'm "going all out for the midterms" by making a political donation every single day. See you on Nov 6.
16
The savage murder of Mr. Khashoggi showed to the world how incompetent Mr. Trump was in handing a serious crisis and how wrong-headed and seat-of-the-pants was his foreign policy. Day-after-day, he was twisting and turning to justify how it makes sense to exchange American values and principles for an arms deal with Saudis. With the Turks playing their cards close to their chests, that story had obviously much legs to go, well beyond the November 6 elections.
Then, the question is: Why should Democrat hand Mr. Trump on a silver platter a major distraction - that is, a domestic terrorist mailing pipe-bombs to prominent Democrats - to allow him moving the Khashoggi murder, which has been most embarrassing to him and his administration, to the back pages? In particular, when the terrorism story can be easily turned around and called a "false flag operation".
8
Conspiracy theories about the bombs spread so far and fast because they were amplified by people with national media platforms.
I’m sure the New York Times and other media companies receive an endless stream of conspiracy theories. They don’t give these anonymous cranks a national platform. But when it’s Lou Dobbs…
Isn’t the answer to treat these people like the crackpots they are and deny them a platform for their nonsense?
7
The GOP has alternatively promoted wishful thinking and paranoia for this election cycle because they are saddled with this bigoted president and are completely devoid of ideas.
13
If this is the guy - and the investigation isn't done yet -
False Flags. Fake News. Two expressions for anything that Trump and the Republicans don't like. And since Trump never ever acknowledges that he is wrong about anything, I am sure there will be a new excuse - er, explanation, up ASAP.
It's time for reasonable people to stand up and put an end to the destruction of our democracy by people who are either too selfish or too stupid to care what happens to other people.
19
Anyone who uses the term 'false flag' should not be taken seriously. The right wing is a dangerous joke.
6
@Barooby, true, but it's obviously much, much more common on the right. Btw, Alex Jones was the biggest purveyor of 9-11 conspiracy theories. Let's recognize that conspiracy thinking is an integral feature of rightwing sources like Fox News.
Apparently, Trump voters and propagandists do not believe that Americans are worth the truth. They probably secretly discuss how to obscure the facts (Hannity, Carlson, Limbaugh, Ingram, Fox and Friends) because they think so little of these Americans. Really that is the crux of the whole situation. Lie,, lie, lie because they can't "handle" facts on who they voted to lead our country. Imagine what they would say and do if it had been the other way around.
3
I'm sure this guy is a "very fine person" most of the time.
7
Now you have a substantial portion of "the media"-- the Fox universe as well as Clear Channel inventing conspiracies and a president to confirm that it's all real. No wonder the unhinged feel more empowered than ever. We have a very real culture of pathology in the White House and media empowering their behavior.
15
@Mickey
I watched Harris Faulkner on FOX reading the announcement that the MAGABomber had been arrested. She looked like she was about to cry because her "false flag" bubble had burst.
4
The article includes a photo of the van that was plastered in pro-Trump and anti-CNN stickers being covered in a blue tarp before being taken away. Do we have a new candidate for "worse cover-up ever"?
7
Is the President and his behavior simply a mirror reflecting attitudes that have found finally a place to be absorbed in the light of day?
2
Dedicated reader of NYT and WAPO here. Lost it on this one. I had begun to think the bombs were fake and intended to discredit MSM for issuing accurate concerns over Trump's violent rhetoric. Not because of the reporting. Rather, because I can't abide Trump, the GOP, and the upside-down they project. I must have caught something. Shaking it off now. Chastened.
3
You know all those “survivalist” nuts who are stockpiling arms, freeze-dried food, and Alex Jones nutritional supplements in preparation for the takeover of the U.S. by some kind of tyrannical “World Government” or “Deep State” ? The last time I checked they weren’t coming from the left.
50
@Susan Could possibly be because the Left seems to be in control of the government and had no reason to be alarmed until Hillary failed to win the election?
@DFR I hope you are sarcastically echo-ing the RWnutjob in their alternate facts bubble: With a Congress and Presidency controlled by Republicans, what part of the government does "the Left" control? Even if Hillary had won, there still would have been both houses of Congress to attempt to thwart her at every turn, just like they did to Obama. If the is "control", I have a course in real estate investing to sell you -- very cheap, discounted.
1
@DFR
Last I checked, the resident of the White House is Republican, the Senate is controlled by the Republicans, the House of Representatives is controlled by Republicans. The Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans. Which branch of government does the "Left" control? Is there another branch that we do not know about?
1
The President and the media again seem to be in need of facts.
From Government Accounting Office:from Sept. 12, 2001, to Dec. 31, 2016 — there have been 85 attacks in the US by violent extremists resulting in 225 deaths. GAO reported citing data from the U.S. Extremist Crime Database.
Of those 225 deaths:
• 106 individuals were killed by far-right violent extremists in 62 separate incidents;
• 119 individuals were killed by radical Islamist violent extremists in 23 separate incidents; 41% of these deaths were in one shooting, the Orlando Pulse night club.
These do not include the 2017 incidents in Charlottesville, VA by a white supremacist incident, the Maryland man Jackson who killed a man in Manhattan also a white supremacist,the 2018 incident where a man crashed a stolen truck into a Planned Parenthood clinic, injuring a pregnant woman and two others. Nor an Isis inspired truck ramming in Manhattan in 2017 where 8 were killed.
No leftist murderers in the group.
33
@AlexanderB You could go further back and include the home-grown terror of the Tim McVeigh/Oklahoma City bombing
6
@AlexanderB Thank you for providing us with these facts!
2
@AlexanderB The 2017 shooting of GOP Rep. Scalise and 3 others in Alexandria, VA by an anti-Trump gunman was not included in the terrorism data I saw and I don't know why. An analysis by business pub Quartz of the Global Terrorism Database (compiled by the University of Maryland) showed there was an increase in acts of terrorism in 2017 with 37 incidents of right wing terrorism, 11 by left wing, 7 by Islamist terrorists and 10 unknown. Note also a recent Trump comment to evangelical leaders: From WaPo: "President Trump warned that Democrats will resort to brute force if they win the midterm elections. 'They will overturn everything we’ve done and they will do it violently.'”
One can only wonder how the President, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and other right wing conspiracy theorists will twist this one around now that the bomber Cesar Sayoc who happens to be a Republican and devout Trump lover was apprehended.
12
The way they always do by denying it all and saying that he is a Deep State FBI plant to discredit them. Don't expect any miracles.
2
Yeah, this is pathetic. When you Google a name the site MyLife, whatever that is, gives you a personal reliability rating and background. It relies upon user recommendations of a person. It's a totally bogus background. I checked it twice in the last hour using the bomb suspect's name and it's being hijacked back and forth by trolls from both ends of the spectrum. However people think this is real.
The other top search site after MyLife was Tigerthread, a fan site for LSU sports. Tigerthread is completely being taken over by alt right conspiracy nonsense as I write this. The internet is one big mess!
4
"The bombs, this theory went, were not actually part of a plot to harm Democrats, but were a 'false flag' operation concocted by leftists in order to paint conservatives as violent radicals ahead of the elections next month."
There is no need to "paint" conservatives as violent radicals. The way they respond to Mr. Trump's outrageous remarks proves that they are indeed "violent radicals." If in doubt, spend a few minutes listening to one of Mr. Trump campaign speech and watch how the conservatives react when he verbally attacks Democrats, or when he threats physical violence against them.
30
It will be interesting to see how Trump, Limbaugh, Hannity et all spin this going forward. The video of the van is damning, plastered as it is with pro-Trump propaganda and images. Thank goodness the suspect was captured alive. Hopefully more will be revealed as he is interrogated. Message for President Trump: your words have consequences, and you can no longer deny it.
12
@Sunny because I was interested as well, I have tuned into some more right leaning talk shows, and the word is it is a hollywood type production, that it's all too "perfect," that the stickers on the van are too new and not faded enough given he lived in Florida, there is talk of seeing who the van is registered to, what payments this guy took....etc. So, there will never be an acceptance that "one of their own" could ever do anything like this.
3
After sharing uproarious stories of conspiracy, deceit, and murder with Jimmy Hoffa, Elvis, Project Project MKUltra veterans, Lee Harvey Oswald, Marilyn Monroe, 9/11 Commission fans, Saudi intelligence officials, and Able Danger alumni, Cesar Sayoc Jr., arrested today in connection with the recent spate pipe bomb mailings, threw up his hands, laughed, and explained that the whole thing was a huge misunderstanding arising from his overzealous participation in mail-order "patsy" role-playing scenarios. Social media blast bots concluded that Sayoc was fibbing, observing that he was simultaneously guilty and innocent of nothing and everything, but that he will get his day in court, regardless.
1
The sad part to all this is that a lot of people actually buy into these false flags without any critical thinking. This speaks volume about the state of education and lack of common sense among a large portion of the population in this country.
7
Unimaginative. And predictable.
3
The man that was arrested is a Trump supporter and registered republican with a criminal history. Now will the right winger hatemongers please stop spewing their anti-democrat garbage, insisting this is a left wing job to make republicans look bad? Trump has encouraged violent acts against his opponents and new organizations. This individual went after some of these same people and organizations with pipe bombs. But Trump's supporters will no doubt find some way to blame this on the democrats, and his supporters will cheer him on because Trump has enabled and empowered those who espouse ignorance, violence and hatred.
79
@Martha
Saddest part is that many of his supporters likely supported the act itself, as it targeted people and organizations that they have been brainwashed into believing are their and the country's enemies.
This will all just be another notch in the Emperor's belt in reality. Regardless of whatever niceties he or any of his GOP enablers may say in public, privately they are giddy over this.
10
Yes. False Flag. That’s clearly why there were Trump supporting, RNC stickers and a Presidential seal sticker with Trump’s likeness plastered all over the suspect’s van. Clearly just to throw us all off even more and fully embed the conspiracy theory. (Sarcasm).
Funny how Trump speaks for unity (about half the time), and against political violence when his words and actions he encourages at his rallies are an incitement to such violent actions.
21
@Smith Trump speaks for unity when he's reading from a script. (Eg, someone else wrote the speech.) When he's speaking off the cuff, there is no unity or peace or harmony.
16
Considering the accompanying news story identifies the guy under arrest as a Republican and staunch support of Donal Trump, this explanation seems lame at best, and more likely completely crippled.
10
@gpickard. But trumpists will not believe the legitimacy of the investigation. They will consider this violent man a sacrificial lamb.
3
False flag? Right. Tell it to the MAGA Bomber.
22
According to another article here in the Times,
Cesar Sayoc believed and may have been motivated by conspiracy theories similar to the false flag conspiracy theory
that Republicans are spreading to cover-up attempted bombings by one of their own.
Clearly, Republicans are determined to destroy America.
20
Well-written article.
4
I guarantee that when this Sayoc character appears in court and starts ranting about Obama and screaming “HAIL TRUMP!” the phrase “Manchurian candidate,” will be featured on FOX within one hour.
10
Speaking of Oliver Stone....
1
The people who believe conspiracy theories believe they are the ones with open minds: they're questioning authority and received assumptions; they're not taking anything at face value. The rest of us are all "sheeple" who believe anything that's fed to us by the "mainstream media." We're the ones who are ignorant and misguided. And any time the media gets something wrong, that's further confirmation of the conspiracy theorist's position.
But such individuals don't have a clue about the relationship between correlation and causation. They have no understanding of confirmation bias. They fill in gaps where no evidence exists. And NO amount of evidence will dissuade them from their misguided beliefs, because there's always another "what about" to be answered.
With conspiracy theories like the moon landing, we can laugh it off. But with incidents like this and the Sandy Hook conspiracy, there are deadly consequences. Conspiracy theories fueled the Holocaust, and if we think conspiracy theories can't fuel evil in this country, we're fooling ourselves. Unfortunately for all of us, we have a current President who either believes such garbage conspiracies himself, or doesn't care, because such ideas can be used as a political lever to his advantage. He is a despicable man.
65
Just to confuse us, the bombing suspect, Cesar Sayoc, has pro-Trump and alt. right stickers pasted all over his van.
The lengths to which leftists will go to cast Trump and his supporters in a bad light is appalling.
/Snark.
26
@Omniscient Yep, that Soyac dude was sharp alright! Almost got away with it, too--lasted over 24 hours!
So much for the alt-right conspiracy theories! So often Trump supporters save everyone else the trouble of casting them in a poor light. So save it.
1
@OmniscientAnd had the foresight to register as a Republican.
6
Even though a suspect has now been arrested, I expect that the false flag meme will persist. Facts and reality have never inhibited those on the far right.
45
@Robert Exactly!. They will say this guy is a Democrat who purposely put trump stickers on his van. And when it is shown that he's a registered republican, they will say he votes twice, once as a republican and once as a Democrat with a false ID . Elephants all the way down.
3
"I know you are, but what am I?" This child's taunt is being played by today's rightwing media: the dirty tricks they are playing they routinely blame as something liberals are doing. For example, climate change denial is a hoax perpetrated by Exxon and the Koch Brothers, therefore "climate change is a hoax perpetrated by eco-terrorists and George Soros". Another example, Russia hacked the 2016 election to get Trump elected, therefore "the Clinton emails prove somewhere that Clinton was in cahoots with liberal elitists like Soros. Also Free Benghazi!". I know you are, but what am I. But does the right engage in dirty tricks more than the left? Yes, for a simple reason: rightwing media is a well-funded machine promoting the interests of the 1% (tax cuts) and global corporations (no climate action, repeal Obamacare). However, it doesn't want its minions to dwell on where its funding comes from, so it chooses 'cultural' issues to exacerbate. Its too soon to tell whether the bombs were a false-flag or not. Its not too soon to inject the MAGA crowd with the 'certainty' that they were. All you need is the funding to never, ever, ever, stand down from that assertion, despite whatever evidence comes forward. And, for obvious reasons, there's always going to plenty of funding.
8
This is a great lesson in how Trump's domination backfired.
Trump tried to silence Democratic voices with endless attacks.
Ultimately, explosive, hypnotic words, led to explosive violence!
Is this the beginning of the end for Trump, and Trumpism?
I hope so. And now we are off to the polls to win elections!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
12
"Conspiracy theories are not false news, exactly."
Really? How many conspiracy theories DON'T involve "facts," such as NASA employees faking the moon landing; the CIA faking the 9/11 attacks; the victims of mass shootings faking-- what? Being dead??
In my experience, every conspiracy theory involves besmirching the name or even the memory of innocent people, many of whom did nothing except conscientiously work for what they considered the public good. To pass conspiracy theories off as not "exactly" false news is giving the conspiracy perpetrators a pass they absolutely do not deserve.
16
If Facebook can track false posts and then decrease their prominence, then instead Facebook should simply delete them. Doing so is not censorship or against the first amendment as it's a private company.
7
The professor in my undergraduate psychology class might have identified this sort of behavior as cognitive dissonance. A consistent refusal to accurately process information and to instead place the events within a false framework created for one's comfort is one indication of this affliction. Perhaps appropriate psychotropic medication could be issued to attendees at future Trump rallies. Many of them have an apparently weak grasp of reality.
16
the false flag theory should be off the table now that it is known that the arrested is a registered republican...
39
@umu catta Indeed. But you vastly overestimate the intelligence of the average Trump supporter. They believe only what they want to believe. It's truly an alternate reality.
That said, at those in the middle, who may have voted for him but aren't die-hard backers, may see it for what it really is.
27
@umu catta Wouldn't it be lovely to think so? You miss the fact that conspiracy hypothesizers (NOT "theories" because there is no factual basis in their beliefs!!!) live in a closed mental universe and that the internet/social media has allowed them to validate each other (thus exponentially inflating their beliefs in the crazy) in a kind of ersatz community. Same thing with wingnut talk radio.
3
Once again, the perp is a loner with a history and apparently no friends. So there goes the conspiricy theories. Just a sad sack who bought into the con that the president was selling.
This is an escalation of the coarsening of our discourse and our society that was promulgated by the current president from day one. Anger and fear to rile up his base. These bombs are a logical extension. What's next?
48
@gillian-b40 "What's next?", you ask. History has always been unkind to republics that replace facts with convenient self-serving lies. Mostly they come to internal violent ends by way of increasing fascist governance OR in small situations, they simply collapse upon themselves.
4
@gillian-b40 What's next? I'd take a guess at a random sniper hitting a target (Democrat), then one big bomb a la Timothy McVey, then maybe a Waco type event. I just don't think this bomber is the last of his species and until Trump is no longer President we're probably in for creeping escalation of violence. DJT will never repent of his horrible rhetoric because he is man who can never be wrong, in his own eyes.
1
Meanwhile, Republicans started the caravan in Central America using Twitter and Facebook, and the press isn't even investigating it.
29
@Peter
Wrong: https://www.thedailybeast.com/forget-trump-hysteria-heres-how-the-migran...
That same article also notes that Sayoc was formerly a male stripper, and lives with his mother.
1
Bomber caught.Take a good look at his van and you can see what trump has wrought.
163
@susan mccall
I used to place Swedish army stickers on the rear bumper of truck of a friend from Norway- he drove around with it - until he discovered it. I'd replace it the next day. I once put a Trump sticker on a very liberal friend's Prius. I thought she might run me over for doing it. My point is a sticker proves nothing...other than I had a odd sense of humor.
2
@Mark Shyres
A sticker on the bumper is one thing; covering every window of your van is another.
@Mark Shyres
I suspect you haven't seen the pix yet. Have a look. It's not just one bumper sticker. It's more like psychotic wallpaper.
BTW, you've kept these friends?
Once again, I must refer to the latest novel from Christopher Hedges, "America, The Farewell Tour", when he describes Trump as being a symptom of a fractured America. Many things can be discussed about what is happening, however, what is probably the most ominous is when opinion, conspiracy theories and real facts are all interchangeable and truth is what people want it to be, it does not bode well going forward and it really doesn't matter who is in charge.
The trouble is, the individuals in America who preach (and believe) this doctrine were always there, all it took was a self-serving demagogue for a President to bring it to the surface "in all its glory". The ultimate in "divide and conquer".
27
Lou Dobbs! The perfect exemplar of Trump Republican fascism.
171
Pachyderm Spongiform Encephalopathy is sweeping the nation, turning tens of millions of right-wing American brains into Birther-Liar-Pizza-Gate-Benghazi-style mush.
The only cure for this national pandemic is voting in historic numbers and putting healthy minds into elected office.
November 6 2018
Save the nation from Republican Mad Cow Disease.
VOTE in record numbers !
196
@Socrates
My favorite all time Socrates phrase: " Pachyderm Spongiform Encephalopathy, " Brilliant, simply brilliant.
17
@Jeri P
Yes. But my new favorite is:
Save the nation from Republican Mad Cow Disease.
FAKE NEWS!! The real story.......President Bigly rushed in, unarmed, to the Florida Democratic headquarters and subdued Nancy Pelosi, and an angry mob, who were in the middle of making more bombs. More news on Fox at 11.
Reports indicate they were trying to kill health insurance coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.
One less vote for the gop in 10 days is a plus. Great work by law enforcement. Contrary to popular gop lore, the FBI really knows their stuff. Congratulations.
62
People cannot be idiots, but it is about time that social media killed bad behavior. I just don't know how they can do it.
4
@Anthony
' it is about time that social media killed bad behavior.'
Are you that naive?
Social medial creates bad behaviour. It encourages all sorts of actions that would not be done otherwise. From ladies flashing the camera, to people posting garbage to people and groups like ANTIFA asking for a revolt.
Those same people would not do this out in the open, but behind a keyboard, every one thinks they are gods.
No sir, social media thrives on bad behavior.
3
A couple of days ago, Charles Pierce rattled off a list of some three dozen bombings and attempted bombings in the US over the past 40 or so years—churches, schools, government buildings, abortion clinics, etc.—and interestingly, NOT ONE of them was a false flag event. It appears that "agents-provocateurs" are far less common than conspiracy mongers imagine. And, like most mass shootings, any clear agendum is less likely than ga-ga derangement.
36
In the pre-Trump-Pence era, when medical coverage was more readily available and the mentally challenged were not cranked up by presidential & vice presidential rhetoric, such pyschotic conspiracies were few.
We have, since T-P entered what Anne Applebaum describes in her interview with Sam Harris (available as pod cast) the Putinesque model of population and voter control. In essence, Putin's approach that has been precisely copied by the T-P-GOP is to unleash many competing and often dissimilar public statements, through many sources, that result in the readers concluding, 'we will never know the truth, so why bother attempting to learn the truth'.
If Americans do not respond by, in the words of George Will, voting Democratic to replace GOP majorities in House & Senate on November 6th, MAGA will become the clarion cry: Making America Garbage Again.
90
Throughout his life, Trump has been consistent in repeating anything controversial as if fact. He does not care if it's true, just that he gets cameras pointed his way.
It's pathetic, but he admitted earlier this week that he had no clue about the "caravan"'s composition, even though he and several of his administration claimed that Middle Eastern persons were present. This is nothing more than a racist claim seeking to create fear in his "base". The "false flag" claims are the same - lies attempting to distract from the truth.
Reporters need to PIN him on facts - every time - without fail. Quit chasing the things he's throwing and force him to admit he is lying.
78
This was said in 1980 about America's right-wing crackpot population:
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
- Issac Asimov
However, it requires updating to reflect how the Fake News Channel, hate radio, the Birther-Liar-In-Chief and the alt-right internet has fully hijacked America's right wing brains and converted it into absolute paranoid-conspiratorial mush.
Trump's demented America now thinks that 'my conspiracy theory, hallucinations, paranoia and fake news universe ignorance is just as good as your knowledge, facts and truth.'
Trumpistan has left the surly bonds of reality to touch the face of full-time fraud and their Snake-Oiler-In-Chief.
There has never been a better time for a voter reality check than November 6 2018.
Save your country, Americans; vote in historic numbers to save yourself from the right-wing crazies.
371
@Socrates So well said it hurts.
14
@Socrates
Don't forget the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
16
How can people believe this? Everything filtered through this myopic, twisted party logic. I don't think that the people that are ready to believe false flag conspiracies really care about the fundamentals of our system or our norms. These crazy stories are like the reactions to Sandy Hook and Parkland. I can't help but think about rhetoric of war that dominated conversations in the 1850s. We are in similar quicksand. Our experiment in democratic republican government is under threat by people that accept the crazy talk of Trump. We need to patriotic and for all the right reasons. We need to celebrate the best in us. Our foundational creed of "all men are created equal" and the great aspirations of "we the people". Our values, our true greatness is under siege. What do we do now? First thing to do, vote.
37
@Nick in California: Three things about conspiracy hypothesizers (I refuse to give them the dignity and credibility of theories, which have a basis in fact): 1) It requires someone to have a great need for a closed mental universe where there is always someone (the mysterious other or the person believed to have outsized influence) to blame, -0- ambiguity, and a cohort of true believers to create a community of special-ness: "people in the know"; 2) willful ignorance; 3) a propensity for hero-worship on the order of demented Elvis fans, the women who seek out romance with serial killers, the replacement of the hero for their own weak sense of self or the assumption of the self-aggrandizing hero self among those who bomb and shoot up women's health clinics and assassinate abortion providers.
3
I was wondering how long it would take for Trumpets to blame the Dems for these bomb scares.... now we know.
111
You thought it wouldn't take long. It was actually much less than that.
3
So, the suspect arrested today has: a) a long arrest record, one of which is for a prior bomb threat, and b) was living in his van which happens to be covered in pro-trump and anti-liberal stickers and signage.
So much for that 'false flag' conspiracy theory I guess.
But I'm sure plenty of those Alex Jones-ian nutters will insist that this too is a 'deep state' plot. *eyeroll*
242
@Mikeweb
The irony is that the more evidence there is that disproves their conspiracy, the more entrenched they become, convinced that the “evidence” was conjured up to deceive them further. And down the bottomless rabbit hole they go. Egged on by the US President. Surreal.
6
And now Fox News and Limbaugh will insist Cesar Sayoc is Antifa, a Democrat, a man from Mars -- anything other than what he is, the product of their own rightwing, Republican hatred machine.
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To take the False Flag tack; based upon the trump images in the suspect's vehicle, the man must have been funded by the RNC to get out the Republican vote. LOL
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False flag? Fake news? Let's see how the creative Right spins the truth on this one.
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@The Weasel
Remember pizzagate? The fact that it was supposedly happening in the basement of a place that...had no basement (!) didn’t sway one person. They believe whatever keeps their fragile worldview intact.
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When you rank 17th in the world on Education and 125th on Literacy this is what happens. It's also important to remember that most of the people pushing these theories have something to sell, mainly advertisement on their websites.
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As the denizens of Republistan are fond of saying, "We don't need no stinkin' education."
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@Jonathan
It’s so much more than that—-many stars pick and choose the truth...nothing on evolutionist too common, that the civil war was about state’s rights etc... we live is the only western fundamentalist country and it shows!
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It seems a lot of the older generation who the internet was not around when growing up treat news on Twitter the same as a reliable and researched news source. They don't understand the difference. My parents constantly send me news articles where with a little digging can be proven false. Just showing them Snopes.com cut down on this by half.
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@Carter
You're very lucky that Snopes works with your parents. I've actually encountered numerous individuals that simply decided that Snopes was part of the conspiracy!!
So, now I'm careful to pick out the source material links in Snopes articles and send those separately.
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@Amanda How do we know you and "Carter" (and maybe his parents!) aren't part of the conspiracy??
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@Carter
Snopes is great until the person you are trying to convince finds out that George Soros once gave them money! Then it's just part of the conspiracy...
I've been through this more than once with an individual. Doesn't matter how many times you debunk stuff (People are saying Obama is a Kenyan!), they will always look for other "sources" to back up their claims.
"“If we had President Jeb Bush, we wouldn’t be wondering if he believed these theories,” Mr. Uscinski said."
If we had President Jeb Bush Republicans would act like complicit puppets same as they are doing for Trump. Wishful thinking.
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