Heinous is as Heinous does.
Justice 'in the end will not appear.' Justice does not appear, it is levied on the perpetrator found guilty. The prince should be removed from power by his father.
Little wonder MBS got a standing ovation. No one there wants to end up like the late Mr. Khashoggi, or be permanently stuck there as is Mr. Khashoggi's son.
2
If you study the Crown Prince's body language, it screams of dishonesty. He is a really horrible liar. If he were smart, he would just quit talking and call himself a lawyer. His guys had one job to do and they botched it due to poor planning.
This man, thin skin prince has blood on his hand and nothing happens without his approval. They need us more than we do. They continue their reign of terror under US protection. It is time that US and the west should cut ties with this brutal barbaric regime. They may have glizy
Why do we all concentrate for days and weeks on the heinous crime of killing one man while at the same time the Saudis are causing through their war in Jemen a tragedy for 14 million people ?
Reversing course and now condemning as a heinous and premeditated slaughter seems to be a transparent effort to preserve his position as Crown Prince and dodge/deny any complicity in it. A pretty common tactic for trying to neutralize the blowback for offensive conduct. Think Erdogan, Putin, Hugo Chavez, and other neo-dictators.
1
Right now, the only party and country to look good in this entire fiasco is Turkey.
Turkey (the living remnant of the Ottoman Empire) could be one of the moderating influences and voice of reason so badly needed.
But sadly it's battling a growing extremism within.
As for Trump: He has $$ to lose if his relationship with Saudi Arabia sours. Clearly his money is more important than the integrity of our country.
1
We don’t believe you, and anyone that pretends to is just trying to justify doing business with you. This was a sickening act ordered by a spoiled brat who lives in a bubble.. he could not handle criticism by a dissident.
Shameful act and shows his true colors. Can’t escape the sunlight now.
The group that carried out the murder will never see the light of day and those that took the actual orders from the Crown Prince will be executed very soon.
What they did was terrible, but at the end of the day they had no choice, they know better not to disobey their master.
1
The Saudi ruling families are not our friends.
15 of the 19 the hijackers on 9/11 were citizens of Saudi Arabia.
After the attacks, Bin Laden family members were permitted to leave our country on private planes.
The got oil and they got money.
There is a song by Bob Dylan, 'Slow Train Coming' that sums it up for me.
1
MBS' comments about finding the perpetrators remind me of another line of from Casablanca, when the policeman says "Round up the usual suspects".
1
What a charade and insult at our intelligence? 15 people dispatched to Istanbul by your government, some of them are in your immediate circle and service, are involved in this crime beyond any doubt, and you keep quiet for 22 days and now claim no knowledge? Why did you deny your knowledge the very first day? How can people who serve you dare commit such a heinous crime without your knowledge and approval when the whole world knows that you hold absolute power in your Kingdom?
1
And what he's perpetrating in Yemen isn't?
It's possible that the Saudi Crown Prince does not know that it was he himself who ordered the "heinous crime." The man may have an evil segment within his own personality that is hiding, even from himself, an evil segment which only emerges when the man's ego is threatened or someone is critical of him. For example, he may have been criticized when he was a child by his mother and ever since has had an outlandish and terrible reaction to criticism which brings forth the evil segment of his personality, a segment which continues to remain hidden from his usual benevolent personality. If indeed Mohammed bin Salmon has a deranged faction of his own personality, then what might be required is for him to undergo psychological treatment, electro shock treatment might even be prescribed by doctors charged with helping this man to eliminate from his personality the deranged splinter from the otherwise "good" prince's brain, a man who, without that 'splinter', would have never condoned what the Prince himself has characterized as a "Heinous Crime."
1
Daniel Statnekov,
He could also just be lying, no?
1
Reminds me of the movie Casablanca when the French police officer who must Kowtow to the German occupiers is forced to close Rick's nightclub. As he says the words, "I am shocked about gambling going on....." an employee of Rick's hands him a roll of cash, saying "Here are you winnings."
1
When you are driving the bus, you own whatever happens inside it. IF MBS had said "heinous" 3 weeks ago, ordered an immediate investigation, and been transparent about the Saudi operatives who came and went in one day, he MIGHT have been almost believable. Too little too late. Right now he might as well be on international live feed with blood dripping from his hands.
And Trump waffling in the background as to whether to offer him a towel or run for the door.
1
When the president says that the cover-up is 'one of the worst', here, at the very least, is an area in which he has some familiarity and expertise, as his administration has been lying and covering up since Day One. Under such intense scrutiny, the truth will out -- and this should be a warning to dictator and would-be dictator alike -- with all the world watching, dissembling will only get you so far.
1
Let me hazard a guess: having received a standing ovation at his appearance at the Future Investment Initiative in Riyadh yesterday, Crown Prince MBS is emboldened to deal with the gang of eighteen rogue elements (the fifteen butchers laying in wait for Jamal Khashoggi on October 2 at the Saudi embassy in Istanbul and executing the deed plus three unfortunate individuals providing ancillary services like driving get-away cars etc.) swiftly by having them tried, found guilty, and executed within a matter of one, maybe two weeks. This, the Crown Prince thinks, will get rid of all the evidence and of any possibility of the culprits giving evidence in a public hearing. Fat chance of any ever appearing in Turkish court of law! MBS will have earnt himself another standing ovation!
1
Yes, a “heinous crime” that he personally ordered, in all likelihood!
The irony that most people miss is that Erdogan, who's done more than anyone else to expose this crime, is personally responsible for kidnapping of Turkish nationals from other countries, hostage taking, putting in jail more journalists than even China, and a great deal of corruption in Turkey.
5
To paraphrase Henry II, "Will no one rid me of this troublesome journalist?" - and we all know how that turned out.
I simply cannot believe that an incident of this magnitude, with its potential to generate a firestorm of criticism, would have been undertaken without approval from the highest levels in Saudi Arabia, which certainly include MBS.
2
@Bob Bunsen -- And let's not forget all the political prisoners languishing in prison for having had the audacity to criticize the government.
Also, the butchered journalist's son is still unable to leave the country.
He is either culpable or incompetent, or both. There is no other way to see it.
Sure, veiled threats on Khashoggi's relatives and oil money could eventually make this go away and the charade of reforms would resume; but nothing is changed: autocracy and extremism
2
The Crown Prince thinks the murder is so heinous that he locks up the victim's son? Really?
It's disgusting the blackmail that Saudi Arabia has long used against any dissident - by making sure their family cannot leave the country, using them as hostages.
72
I keep coming back to the question: why torture him? The only answer I can come up with is that MBS was sending a message to journalists and dissidents. He felt that even if he publicly owned this murder, he would suffer no consequences.
MBS believed, in other words, that Trump had his back. And based on Trump's behavior after the killing, that belief was not unfounded.
37
@Justin. Cruelty for its own sake seems to be a fundamental feature of dictators.
3
When you're suspected of ordering a gruesome killing on foreign land who under your rule is going to challenge your clearly false story and risk same?
The Crown Prince has managed in Donald Trump's own words, "the worst cover up in the history of cover ups." No person has ever acted more guilty than the Crown Prince. We may never know the whole truth especially if witnesses disappear or families threatened but the story won't go away, either. Tossing out a few scapegoats might quiet fearful Saudi's and throwing around money might quiet others but this crime demands accountability.
Mr. Trump's original story to avoid involvement was the victim was not an American citizen but Mr. Khashoggi's son is and he must be free to leave the country. If Jared Kushner is such pals, that's the least he can negotiate.
Mr. Trump cites that "Middle East" types in the caravan heading north to strike fear into his base. Has anyone told them that Saudi Arabia is part of the "Middle East" and full of Muslims, some of whom are terrorists and murderers?
28
@Kathy An excellent example of why dual citizenship is such a bad idea.
For there to have been a chance of perhaps half the global audience accepting the declaration MBS just made, it needed to have come 3 weeks ago.
October 3rd was the last day when KSA could have putatively asserted that 'rogue operatives' committed this atrocity in Istanbul, butchering a leading Saudi intellectual about to marry a Turkish citizen.
Here's the rub: fully 15 men were sent (with bone saw), in 2 private planes, to execute Jamal Khashoggi, after first inflicting maximum pain on him. A 16th man led the butchery via Skype.
That's a lot of effort.
But there was no plan for what to say to the world?
It never even occurred to MBS or Skype-butcher that an immediate outcry would ensue, that would require skillful assuaging?
It has been reported that MBS was 'surprised' that anyone cared about Jamal Khashoggi. Khashoggi was sufficiently effective in his writing to have earned so much hatred from his butchers -- yet they did not consider that that fact alone also meant he was important? To colleagues? To academics?
It takes profound sociopathy to be so incapable of anticipating the reactions of others.
To be sure, MBS was tempted by the opportunity of having something so terrifying on his record, that he could use it to intimidate the entire Arab world. Or so he thought. That is one reason gruesome images of the torture & killing have leaked out of KSA. It's a calculated objective: to terrify into abject submission. He wants everyone afraid. Yet he's also inept.
23
A lot of commentators are acting like jumping to conclusions is an Olympic sport.
In a court of law this article would be thrown out for "leading the witness".
Glad you mentioned Khashoggi's son unable to leave KSA. Everyone touting MBS' reforms is overlooking plenty that's very bad, that he won't address but instead deflects to Vision 2030, which has problems that should be explored but- no one dares.
He's aggrieved to have to answer for anything.
Yes heinous MBS. No we still don't believe you but we know this is for DT plus bit for EU. You've seen the ugly greed of US & no wonder you're shocked this matters.
But it does. Jamal + Yemen blasting + Hariri + impounding your relatives @ the Ritz in shakedown + silencing all (even Twitter) critics+ drumbeat for war w Iran = Too reckless, too aggressive, too immature.
King Salman please put some advisors with authority around your favorite son.
5
Break of Diplomatic relations and stop arms sales. As to his culpability, can he be prosecuted? We all know none of the persons who were involved in the murder would have been involved without orders from the prince.
1
Says the man accused of knowingly ordering the seizure, torture and execution of an activist who bravely spoke out against the numerous atrocious crimes being committed at home and in Yemen. It’s clearly a ploy by bin Salman to draw back the financiers who dumped his Davos in the Desert convention (and rightfully so) because they knew they couldn’t ignore the atrocities anymore. Just stop trying, MBS. We know what you did. And we won’t let you walk away from it.
2
You certainly can't believe our intelligence community, and these inbred Royals and our own politicians are all professional liars.
However tragic, in the end this is not a serious issue for the United States. This disaster is kept percolating by outrage hobbyists and a US press with ulterior motives. It's a fool's errand to try to find the truth on this one. How about we revisit prosecuting Bush & Rumsfeld et al instead?
2
"Mr. Trump said that ties between the United States and Saudi Arabia would be damaged if the crown prince had been dishonest with him."
Then there will be damage because everyone knows the Crown Prince has been dishonest.
5
If they're brazen enough to do this on foreign soil, makes you wonder how many other dissidents, journalists, and free-thinkers were similarly murdered within the Saudi kingdom. Hopefully the world attention would shift to the activists still locked up by this regime.
5
Whatever the rich nation of Saudi Arabia has done for the people of the planet, including Americans, in the time since the USSR invaded Afghanistan, has been done ONLY with the permission, encouragement and support of the USA.
Is there not one global elite who is going to step up to help Saleh bin Jamal Khashoggi leave KSA to be with his siblings? . He has dual American/Saudi citizenship, Meanwhile we see the hostage/victim's son in a staged photo op accepting condolences from bin Salman.
Courage and decency have died.
9
i agree the prince is henious
6
Being a despot means never having to say your sorry. I guess the next "logical" step is public beheadings of the assassination team (- a public trial of coarse) a dusting off of the hands and off to the next financial meeting. All is forgiven. Ain't capitalism great?
5
We aren't dependent on Saudi oil like the early 70's, so we don't need them to fill the tanks of our old American made gas guzzlers. The 110 Billion Dollar defense contract's that Trump brags about and the list of a handful of fortune 100 military contractors, is a dream sale written on the back of a dinner invite. There is no pending 100+ billion dollar contract with the Saudis. Where will they buy their goods from to wage war against innocent civilians of Yemen? That includes using cluster bombs. The Russian state of art in weaponry is sorely lacking to US technology. Russia's GDP ranks them as 11th.
3
Good grief, what kind of chairs are those? Are those airline seats or just the latest massaging wonder from Brookstone?
6
The whole situation would seem to fit in some episode of Game of Thrones. Too bad, that it's real life.
1
Isn't Crown Prince MbS actually a Millennial? I'm trying to think, "What are the values of these young adults?"
I could be wrong, but I thought this generation was largely free of prejudice. Interested in agriculture, doesn't mind farming, will sacrifice for the environment. Not rabidly materialistic: will work, but not at the expense of friend time. Is more socially-engaged, not so reclusive. Is connected through social media, and is comfortable making group decisions.
1
Salah Khashoggi, the son of Jamal Khashoggi, is a captive of the Kingdom. He cannot leave the country. He is a hostage, preventing Jamal Khashoggi's family from speaking out. The expression on his face is that of someone that is under the power of MSB and afraid for his family's safety. It is all show.
26
A meaningful gesture during this serious set of events would be to publish the names of the businesses and corporations who attended the "Davos in the Desert" conference. That would enable people to take real action against Saudi Arabia for its reprehensible actions in the murder of Khashoggi. If this list isn't published, then this heinous murder simply becomes business as usual. The murder is condemned, and the Saudi government continues to make money as usual. Let's see if anyone dares to publish the list of participants at the conference. So far, no one has dared.
19
This is a horrible crime. And so is the human tragedy in Jemen. When will the Saudies and their arms suppliers face the responsibility of killing masses of civilians? How long will the rest of the world look the other way? And when will the non-saudi working population in Saudi Arabia get some elementary human rights?
6
Does anyone else think it's suspicious that Ergdogan just happened to have an audio tape of this murder? It seems likely that Erdogan had some insider who tipped him off about the plan, and rather than telling Khashoggi about it and saving his life, Erdogan made sure to tape the whole thing so that he'd have a great weapon to use against Saudi Arabia.
3
Can you imagine having to shake hands with the man who had your father killed? Good thing we live in a country that won’t put up with that? Don’t we?
11
Kashoggi's murder and coverup has nothing to do with Saudi/US relations. Trump is covering for MBS because the Saudi's own Trump and Kushner. This is about money from Saudi Arabia to Trump, Kushner and the entire Trump crime family. America, not so much
Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
17
journalists and pundits are all asking for a condemnation and a response to Khashoggi's brutal killing ( from congressmen and the president,) i am asking for a response from the Islamic world, a fatwa or ruling on if it is ok or not for 15 pious muslims to cut off the fingers of another pious muslim proir to his killing and dismemberment. iran finally made a statement, how about the religious scholars of the muslim world.
10
Do you ask the same thing from the Pope when a Catholic mows down a bunch of people in a mass shooting?
If not, why not?
1
Because the order came from MBS (akin to a pope), the crown prince KSA (akin to the Vatican).
3
@Beezelbulby -- the subject is the Khaghoggi murder. Let's keep on topic!
Who in all creation believes this denial? Who believes that our government's own hidden manipulation and schemes in the Middle East don't have some significant moral connection to this vicious blood-shed? Our country today is devoid of serious leadership clear across the Middle East. This is not going to end well.
13
October 24, 2018
Well said Crown Prince, thank you for the love of journalism that is lived truly.
Out of the pain will come hope and appreciation for all that give their strength to the voice of ideas - yet with programmatic pragmatic respectful national character for its spirit's historical enlightenment with honor and grace.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
1
MBS has the personal misfortune to be on the world stage thanks to his buddies Trump and Kushner. If that were not the case, this story would be buried on page 13 with all the other dictator-ordered murders around the world. But Trump protects MBS, and so he now OWNS the crime. Trump's and MBS's late, reluctant back-pedaling is too little, too late.
13
A horrible crime perpetrated by members of the Saudi government against a Saudi citizen took place weeks ago.
The fact that NO commentary about the crime has come out of Saudi Arabia from anyone EXCEPT the Crown Prince himself speaks volumes about where the Kingdom is at this point in terms of free speech...or ANY speech for that matter. Thousands of royal family members...and NOTHING...ZILCH...NADA!
And the "enemy" is Iran?
"Glorious future" indeed!
23
@Bob
And we won't talk to the Cubans due to their ghastly human rights violations. Please.
4
@M. McCarthy -- please stay on topic. It's about the brutal murder of Mr. Khashoggi.
The thing is everyone already knows the truth. Alright already. We know. You had him killed. You see still at this time in our country- we do not have to agree with our leaders lies. That’s why we are so great. At least for now.
9
Right out of Trumps playbook, create your own reality
31
Every human in the world's follow up question: So how exactly do you justify it then?
5
“Those who make you believe in absurdities can cause you to commit atrocities.” – Voltaire
With the particular help of the great French thinker’s unmistakably resounding words, the author of this book is rather expressing himself as such, that his argument is one that most resonates with the savaged death of the Washington Post’s contributing columnist, Jamal khashoggi. It reads as such:
“The extremely sandy land of Saudi Arabia’s de facto crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, by many measures, including the most recent act of apprehending more than 200 men assumed to be rivals and taking them into custody, on trumpeted charges of corruption, while he himself was emptying the public purse as he wished, unreservedly believes in the absurdity of absolute de facto power unchallenged. So with the rare help of his subaltern large band of brothers – 15 terrorists (including generals, senior intelligence officers and forensic officials), like numerous times before, he commits a human atrocity; one that fits into the tradition of the gangsters of Riyadh disguised as monarchs.”
More, a crime that evokes the grand barbarism of ancient times – not necessarily the time when foreigners who resided in ancient Greece and those of other lands who did not speak the Greek language were referred to as barbarians by the fellow compatriots of Plato, to name only this one.
10
I would love to play poker with this guy with his obvious lying tell.
8
@FXQ
Really? I get the sense he may be a sore loser.
15
1.
Taking him on his word for a minute, when so much can happen under his nose and involve people so close to him without his permission, he is not qualified to be in the position his father has forced him into by short-circuiting the system they had in place for several decades. What about the displaced Mr. Nayef?
Now, leaving the make-believe world:
2.
... A Saudi-Turkey split, he said, “will not happen, and we will prove to the world that the two governments are cooperating to punish any criminal, any guilty person, and justice in the end will appear.” ...
This might explain why Turkey's "in all its nakedness" explanation was covered with several layers of overcoats as it included no details at all Turkey has been teasing the world news media with.
This might also mean Turkish Lira getting very close to five per USD very soon thanks to infusions from Riyadh to Ankara.
2
@DM -- "One hand washes the other".
1
Coming up: a show trial, featuring the dozen-plus Saudis who traveled to Turkey. Each will tearfully confess his sins and absolve MBS. Naturally, all will be executed. Then, just like FDR did after the Moscow show trials of the late thirties, our prez will declare his satisfaction that justice was done. Five cents, please.
6
Notice Trump crossing his arms while calling this an amateur cover-up? Could that be a signal to Putin and the Saudi's and his other despot customers around the world that someone else is making him say it?
11
This murder was permitted out of hatred and revenge.Now imagine what this man will be capable of with his new cache of arms.
10
The old Mugal Emperors of India sometimes followed the practice of having the severed heads of their killed enemies brought to them as the proof. Why else would they need to bring a bone saw on the plane?
9
Such a spineless and heinous leader.
The job is done; his legacy forever set.
Such a shame that nothing will happen to him at all and he will remain in power.
9
The Saudi Prince's condemnation of this murder is reminiscent of a scene from the 1940's film Casablanca: Capt. Renault: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money] Croupier: "Your winnings, sir." Renault: "Oh, thank you very much."
5
He thinks that will do it, then?
2
@JFMACC
He knows it will.
1
Thanks God, most criminals don't have it so easy. Imagine for a minute if all the world criminals had to do is to call their crime "heinous".
5
That means some else is on charge? Uhm... if not MBS, who else? I don’t believe that someone is on top of him, making decisions that affects his entire kingdom.
3
MBS is beyond redemption. His cruelty in not allowing Jamal Khashoggi’s children to leave the Kingdom is staggering, but dwarfed by the fact that he summoned them for the public spectacle of having to accept his condolences and shake his hand.
MBS is surely sorry, but not for them. He is sorry that he has to act contrite when he is livid at having been publicly censured by the entire world. Khashoggi was nothing but an irritation for him; he was certainly not anticipating this outrage over his death.
22
@Njlatelifemom -- actually, yes he was surprised about the world's outrage. Didn't he telephone Kushner to ask him about that?
1
Every foreign ally that accepts this ridiculous cover-up of an explanation and does nothing about it is complicit.
8
Et tu, Mohammed bin Salman?
I wonder whether those who committed this crime knew they were on a suicide mission?
9
Guess we will never know what happened since the chief conspirator was killed in a freak accident the other day. It’s Olde News now anyway and time to move on.
5
@Moe Def -- normally these accidents happen in North Korea.
1
Oh, ok. That clears it up. Whew!
10
No arms sales to Saudi Arabia. NONE. Ray Sipe
28
How many rulers have received justice?
Including the killings of Socrates, Jesus and Khashoggi, the wholesale extermination of millions in the Holocaust, in the Vietnam and Middle East Holocausts, government has killed a large chunk of humanity. On the spectrum from pacifism to violence, government defines extreme violence. Yet, an amazingly small number of rulers received justice.
What are the chances in the Khashoggi case?
7
MBS is forcing Khashoggi's son to remain in SAU to keep his family quiet outside the murderous nation. You recall Iraq's president staging similar captive photo ops to make clear we were not to be critical of his murderous reign.
And he still claims he's a stand up guy, this monster?
18
@Abby. You can cover the world in concrete - some day a a blade of grass will grow through the crack. I say the cracks are already there among the vast list of ‘princes’ and the recently ‘bumped’ off the almost-top.
2
In an atmosphere that continues to ramp up vitriol against a free press, can we really be shocked that MBS takes the rest of us for suckers and hope that those who get their news from less reliable news sources will fall in line with this baloney?
The attacks today are part of the same narrative.
Don't stand by while this erosion of the press takes place. Make your vote (and voice) count on election day.
10
MBS may be so isolated from the rest of the world, that he actually thinks his version will be accepted by the rest of the world. I just can’t imagine that many Saidis have developed any street smarts.
4
@Ostinato
They have the oil/money. Truth is irrelevant.
2
@SParker -- But we have global warming and time for their clients to concentrate on a more earth-friendly energy source. We should have explored these many years ago but to date are still beholden to the oil tycoons. Isn't it time to tell them to drink their oil?
I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing, but so many world leaders have shown their true faces these last few years and I think it will change how people look at them. A good leader needs to be respected and many leaders have shown they are not worth any. The problem with the whole thing is that they do not seem to care. That they don't seem to need to care. It's business. Everything is business. The humans are not important for the humanity, just the business. Currently the power of the people are so weak and easy to control that it can basically be ignored.
17
MBS will never be able to regain the respect of many national leaders. It is not too late for the king to reverse his decision on the succession.
17
Maybe those bombs today were designed to knock this story "under the fold." Meaning further down the headlines.
6
Why yes the killing was heinous. What was worse was the person who ordered it. That would be you MBS.
24
Nobody believes him.
35
Trump tried his best.
4
The Crown Prince had Khashoggi murdered to silence his annoying criticisms. It was a dumb action as well as a shameful act of brutality. His protestations show that he is a very stupid man because nobody can believe him with the facts that are known. Saudi Arabia will get investors but they will all be prepared for him to not be in office very long.
15
Well, it was obviously painful for at least one Saudi.
9
So there was a murder in your consulate and you are still working on setting up the investigation. Riiiiiiight.
11
I don’t see much has changed in Saudi Arabia since it’s inceotion centuries ago. Their preferred method would have been to publically behead their enemy Mr Khashoggi but they had some difficulty so they did the next best thing. 2 more killings like this and it will be normal. After all you can’t stop business for some killing no matter how heinous in a far away land especially if you are not an American Citizen.
So simple to understand.
11
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is correct that it was a heinous crime-he needs to know that we do not believe his horrendous lies.If he wanted to show good will he would release Khashoggi's son who has American citizenship and let him return to the United States.He, MBS, realizes that he does not need to answer to his father, the ailing King .His early time as Crown Prince is marked by missteps- he is not the one who will modernize the kingdom.
13
@JanetMichael
And how about sending those body parts back to his family?!
1
@JanetMichael He can probably survive being a murderous thug but not a stupid murderous thug.
1
A key question is what is the Crown Prince prepared to give Turkey not to release the audio tapes of the torture and murder of Mr. Khashoggi?
13
@Michael Anasakta -- good question. Time will tell. Mr. Erdogan will no doubt now want a seat at the table, tired of playing second fiddle to the Saudi prince.
Turkey also needs economic help. Bolstering their currency would be a good start. Several things Mr. Erdogan wants and if he plays his cards right, he just might get.
1
@Michael Anasakta I read he already tried that and was turned down. They know they have the upper hand.
1
Almost as appalling as the brutal murder is that MBS forced Mr. Khashoggi's son to shake his hand for a photo-op. The cruelty of that was intentional salt and vinegar in a wound.
48
@Anne -- what this particular photo did not show was a uniformed guard with his hand near the pistol on his belt.
1
So very true @ Anne, but what could his son do? Imagine he might be thinking that it could happen to him. The Bushes, Colin Powell and all their lackies destroyed Iraq and ultimately Syria.
As a member of the League of Women Voters in Syracuse New York, I was attending a meeting of Iraqi men and women who were traveling the U.S. to discuss American governmental structure. Even as we were speaking, a man had to leave the room to find out that his nephew had died in an elementary school bombing.
I stood up to express my condolences and to say on behalf of our group that not all Americans supported this terrible war.
But the meeting continued in spite of his personal tragedy.
It was bin Salman's people who did this, top to bottom, and now bin Salman is trying to replay the killing of Thomas a Becket.
The question is whether Saudi Arabia and the world remain sufficiently like feudal England so that he can do this.
For those of you who don't know that history Henry II did penance imposed by the pope. He walked to Canterbury Cathedral in sack cloth and ashes and allowed himself to be flogged by the monks there. And he gave up the central claim he had been fighting Becket over -- criminal authority over lay priests.
It seems unlikely bin Salman will face any equivalent.
8
"Pay no attention to that man who wears the curtain! The Crown Prince has spoken."
10
How did we get from Mr.Trump believing MBS to .Mr.Trump say its the worst cover up in history .
9
So then Trump believes the act of killing was ok. He just thought they did a shoddy job of covering it up?! What a guy we have.
9
So if MBS claims he didn’t know of this and wasn’t a part of it, and yet his aides were, then isn’t that just as bad?
That then means he can’t manage his kingdom and staff. That people directly under him can go out and murder someone and he doesn’t know about it. That is poor management.
11
“The crime was really painful to all Saudis and I believe it is painful to every human in the world,” he said in Arabic, according to a simultaneous translation. “It is a heinous crime that cannot be justified.”
Sure, but this statement does not exclude his involvement. It just states the truth.
9
“Certainly it would be a very bad thing in terms of relationship,” Mr. Trump said. “It would take a while to rebuild.” Is anyone at this point not fully aware that ‘a while’ in this instance will be Wednesday, November 7th?
10
Is he going to arrest himself? Or will he just assassinate all the men who obeyed his orders?
30
They really do noy understand that we are not (as a whole) stupid, gullible and malleable, do they?
5
@Marina
And yet so many of us are.
2
...From the killers of Sept. 11th. This man is a murderer and a liar. Buy solar. Hit them in the pocketbook or the bank. It is the only thing they understand.
19
How stupid does he think the world is? He should step down and turn himself in to the ICC.
9
MBS is nothing if not a quick learner.
World Leaders get away with awful and lame deceits left and right. Americans have even allowed truth-and-ethics-challenged men get appointments onto Amreica’s Surpreme Court.
And MBS has a local judge and jury interested only on the ascendancy of MBS. So why shouldn’t he press on with his re-configured trajectory?
3
Perhaps the King should reevaluate the Crown Prince's suitability for office.
14
From the beginning of this atrocious criminal act the Saudi government particularly MBS, have dissembled and evaded and concealed all the relevant facts and accountability for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. MBS and the Saudi royal family raised the level of depravity of this crime by making Mr. Khashoggi's son shake the hand of the person who may be directly involved with his father's murder.
23
A prince if there was one! Along, that is, with Putin, Erdogan, Netanyahu, Assad and several others in the world of this time, including our own "fearless" leader, who says he knows a bad cover-up when he sees it ... which, considering his expertise, may be about the truest comment he's ever made. Here we have again in "His Majesty the Prince" basically: "Not me! We Saudis now suffer in pain. Those scoundrels; we gotta get 'em. Bring them to justice." After 2 to 3 weeks of giving it the old college try with one ridiculous story after another to explain the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, this remarkably disgusting denunciation from the prime suspect, partying-on in all his pain nonetheless, even offering personal condolence to Mr Khashoggi's son (a captive in Saudi Arabia, at that). One has to wonder about the practical dangers if not moral disadvantage of wealth, especially in the context of Trump's promise to "make America great again" which is measured in dollars.
7
Well if he keeps plugging away at getting his story straight, he’ll get there eventually.
15
Yes crown prince, but wasn't the order for the killing also heinous?
17
The tragedy of Mr. Khashoggi has morphed into farce; it's sliding down the memory hole more quickly each passing day, inexorably overtaken by outrages that never cease. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are getting what each deserves: each other.
Does our own divided country even deserve a democracy? Our future will reveal more, but not all of itself, on November 7. Trump utters raw sewage; alternative facts; election tampering; voter suppression.
Vote like it's to be our last election.
8
The Saudis will find scapegoats to take the blame so the royals can plead their innocence. I am sure Trump will punish anyone who doesn’t have businesses with him. He can jeopardize Americans but not his business interests. America first? Not with this administration.
9
OR, the king had better be sure his food taster is "on his toes", as Mo Bone Saw may be getting a bit uncomfortable, and there's only one person in his way. Will the king see spring?
12
"Mr. Trump said that ties between the United States and Saudi Arabia would be damaged if the crown prince had been dishonest with him. 'Certainly it would be a very bad thing in terms of relationship...It would take a while to rebuild.'”
I almost upchucked my breakfast after reading these latest of Trump's comments to help Crown Prince Bone Saw covering up of his own role in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. For it appears our president is still a willing participant in the Saudi Royals' coverup by suggesting Prince Bone Saw's might have been honest in his absurd denial of involvement in ordering the murder. But what's even more laughable is Trump's suggestion that it "would take a while to rebuild" the US-Saudi relationship "if" Prince Bone Saw had been dishonest in denying the assassination order.
I'll wager $100 (a lot more than I normally gamble) that it will take no more than a nanosecond or two after a major US defense contractor announces its need to sell yet another multi-billion dollar weapons system in order to completely rebuild and restore our relationship with Saudi Arabia as well as Trump's and Jared's close friendship with Prince Bone Saw. Or if they need the Saudis for any other purpose, including to support Israel or to put the squeeze on Iran.
15
Prince Bone Saw, love it.
He a Cadet Bone Spur form some kind of duo. Not the dynamic one. Really the opposite.
6
A standing ovation for the Prince? give me a break ! It is clear
that these so called business leaders have little MORAL VALUES.
10
@Paul C
Why do you say "little" MORAL VALUES? Don't you know that this country is morally bankrupt?
2
Who knew that Trump would be providing ratings for cover-ups, citing this one to be out of medal contention? This does not approach the level of the cover-up of the payoff in the Stormy Daniels affair but it would be nice to have a list of how he views good vs bad cover-ups with more examples. The first thing to avoid in covering-up for a high score is the availability of active recording devices, which lower the scores of Trump, Nixon and MBS in aspects of their most prominent attempts for gold.
3
The Art of the Cover – the 45th's next book.
15
Calling a crime "heinous" is a touch rich coming from a country where public beheadings are routine.
104
@Jim S. Executions , public or not. After trials or not. Targeted or not. ALL are nasty heinous,
5
If you are involved in murder it's not a big stretch to lie and cover up.
13
I guess if the American press let it go, it will go. It has become ok to kill and cut journalists up. That is a real fine new world order.
8
The appropriate and unbiased headline is the Crown Prince "attempted to distance himself."
The NYTimes headline instead rewards him with an instant successful "validated" distancing
8
...it's the Prince's last attempt to distance himself from an assassination he orchestrated.
Mohammed bin Salman, we were born here in America, but we weren't born yesterday.
Nice try.
77
@JMS
40% were, apparently.
4
@JMS Why would MBS not believe Americans would swallow any tale he decided to tell? Donald Trump is your President. MBS knows just how gullible and pathetic many of you are. Sorry, it is the sad truth, if there is such a thing anymore.
5
Heinous ??? NO. Highness. As in " prince ".
And NOT the purple one.
10
If you buy any part of his story, the Crown prince of Saudi Arabia also has a bridge in Brooklyn that he'd like to sell you.
8
He can’t distance himself ... from himself, unless one is a fool.
8
Take the religion and the white thawb away, and tell me what the difference is between him and Kim Jong-Un.
10
@JYK
Or John Gotti. Nothing.
2
@JYK - oil.
4
@JYK -- nothing. Two thugs.
1
Prince MBS should set Jamal's son Salah Khashoggi free; let him come and go to and from Saudi Arabia at will. This should be a partial payment for the terrible wrong that was done. And so Prince Mohammed bin Salman?
12
The Prince was given cover by the President of the United States!
Pretenders to the throne all
27
Of course it was a heinous killing, but for MBS to issue this commentary after two weeks of shifting stories and parsing words, looking for echoing from Trump to corroborate the stories, as in two accomplices to a crime might do, just further illuminates the circumstances about Jamal Khashoggi's death as being more than an "interrogation gone wrong". (When was the last time a bone saw was brought to an interrogation?)
The story - and Khashoggi's death is a key link - is the financial relationship between Donald trump and Jared Kushner with the Saudi Royal Family, both in years past and most recently. It's not coincidence Trump has been bailed out by Saudi Royal Family members - well documented. What hasn't been illuminated is Jared Kushner's financial woes with the 666 Park Ave building - an albatross of a project that going to sink him financially. No coincidence here, and what deserves investigation is the quid pro quo exchange offered by Jared Kushner to investors in 666.
The UK paper The Guardian has just published its version of the link between Kushner and MBS. Trump's Administration is patently corrupt, and I'll opine Trump/Kushner are implicated in Khashoggi's death because they have received financial bailouts from the Saudi ties.
19
“It is a heinous crime that cannot be justified,” says the guy that [presumably] ordered the attack, as he goes on to justify it.
Yes, Your Heinous. Your King should be deposed with the haste of a thousand and one bone saws for having caused so much pain to the world’s human population.
4
As evidence comes out the autocratic Prince updates his rhetoric and show. When will the finding of the (dismembered) body, or body parts, will be announced? I heard they had been already found in a well at the Saudi ambassador's house. And that horribly phrase order by a high Saudi official "Bring me back that dog's head!" Are these fake news? They have been reported in The Guardian and Sky News. Maybe these are preemptive distancing statements by the "modern" "reforming" Crown Prince as evidence of the heinous crime mounts. Maybe he has hired a PR expert (from the US?) to keep brushing up his public image. Or maybe Jared is sending urgent tips. In any case, the dashing Crown prince's position keeps changing as stuff happens behind the scenes.
5
You'd think that as rich as he is, the Prince could find and pay some creative types to come up with a more plausible consistent story.
12
@Lynn
Pure unadulterated arrogance.
MBS KNEW Trump would defend him. Afterall MBS says he has little Kushner in his pocket.
5
The Khashoggi murder has all the hallmarks of a moment which will be, years from now, remembered as a turning point of major historical importance.
I hope that I am very, very wrong but this feels like the moment where any pretense of democratic ideals and a search for true peace and social justice disappear from our national conscience.
It will be clear that the US now is - maybe even almost always was - about 'show me the money'.
The CEOs of our major banks, energy companies and defense contractors understand that the deep corruption that spreads from the procurement and financial practices of Saudi Arabia into our business culture is flowing into our society as a whole. Journalists at reputable media and our intelligence community have the story of the war in Yemen. Rights activists know all about the civil rights abuses perpetuated by the Saudi regime, Our better allies try to warn us of the divisive nature of Saudi foreign policy.
But we ignore this and we watch as the Trump administration postures and puffs waiting for this to all blow over so they - and we ! - can go back to business as usual.
And nobody with real power dares to speak truth to power.
And global business community chiefs, religious leaders, former Presidents of the US and heads of our most prestigious educational institutions say nothing.
And into the leadership and moral vacuum unfolding will come China and possibly Russia.
I hope for the sake of my grandsons I am all wrong on this.
7
Probably managed by skilled PR people and lawyers in the US. Don't forget Riyadh owns a lot of the US government through K street lawyers and lobbyists. If people are outraged they need to push of a hefty gas tax. A tax that would be paid by SA and other corrupt oil oligarchs in countries such as Angola, South Sudan, Nigeria, Venezuela and on and on because the price would collapse. The K street lawyer/lobbyists will have to find other work. In addition, it would force us to accelerate the transition to alternative energy, and force consumers to move to smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. The revenues could be used to improve public transit. Add a 55 MPH speed limit which will dramatically cut consumption and these playboys in bathrobes will be back on their camels. Raging about Trump or Mohammed is going to do nothing. Voting won't do anything because much of the Dem party is beholden to the Arabs, as are many think tanks in Washington. A gas tax would work and citizens should demand it if they really care about the issue. And if they do not they can continue to drive their SUVs.
4
@AS --unfortunately, even with the writing on the wall, humans will do little or nothing until the last drop of oil has been pumped out of the ground. And then we'll wring our hands.
It's not that we have not been warned of impending disaster.
Ever since the Arab oil embargo of the early 1970s we had a chance to look for alternatives.
2
"Much has been written about how this could have happened. People are asking: How did it end up that some men left the consulate wearing Mr. the clothes of Mr. Kashoggi, who later turned up dead?
Well, we had our security forces conduct a thorough investigation, and as a result, we now know exactly what happened. Unfortunately, a tragic fishing accident last night claimed the lives of all 37 members of the investigative team, but -- praise Allah -- we were able to obtain a draft of their report from their DropBox.
When he appeared at the consulate to retrieve his papers, the staff -- as a gesture of friendship and goodwill -- invited Mr. Kashoggi to stay for a while and enjoy the official consulate jacuzzi, for an impromptu hot-tub party. As he did not have his trunks with him, Mr. Kashoggi removed his business suit to go 'au natural,' and later, another guest mistakenly left with Mr. Kashoggi's clothes. So that explains the body-double thing.
As is often the case, the heat made Mr. Kashoggi dizzy, and so he started to get out of the jacuzzi. At that point, still feeling feint, Mr. Kashoggi slipped on a banana peel and fell onto a running bone saw, which the group was using to slice cold-cuts for the party. Despite the best efforts of the medical staff, Mr. Kashoggi later died. You know how these things are...
Anyway, that is the full story about this unfortunate incident. I hope that puts everyone's mind at rest. Can we get our tanks, planes and missiles now?
16
Princess Reema bint Bandar Al Saud: "There are 33 million people in this country who are trying very hard to move this country forward"
I applaud that, and empathize with the millions of Saudi's who want nothing more than to live their lives as fully as they can with access to modern technology, freedom, equality, and who respect human rights, dignity and freedom for others.
But, how do people who are ruled by the iron fist of an extremist religious sect inside the iron glove of an absolute monarchy have any say in how their country moves forward?
How do a silenced people speak, when mild dissent, (even a retweet, a like, of a less than favorable opinion of the rulers) can result in imprisonment, torture and death.
12
The Heinous Crime is what the Saudis did to us on 9/11 and never paid for it. Instead of a Saudi take down, Bush attacked Iraq. And now we have a President who is also in bed with them. America wake up and see that your lives don't matter. What makes you think if this country didn't do anything on 9/11 against Saudis, will do something against a single journalist? Only money matters. And you getting none of it. Wake up.
70
Of course the Crown Prince ordered the heinous murder. What would have happened to his henchmen if they had refused to carry out his orders? Now he will disassociate himself from them. World- shun Saudi Arabia, people's lives are more important than oil or conventions!
8
Firstly, the real arms contract is only worth 2 billion not 110 !
A lucky person(s) won 1,6 billion in the lottery today.
Comparatively speaking, blocking the arms deal is only a pittance for the US !!!
And if America doesn't ship the vital spare parts, the Saudis will no longer be able to bomb Yemen. Look like a win-win situation to me.
52
The mad prince seeks to separate himself from the deed he insisted be done?
He should go out and pound some sand, lot of it. No sane person who has considered the facts can believe him.
13
This is just the tip of the iceberg of corruption in the Saudi Empire.
A blue blood is someone who belongs to a royal family and has power simply because he or she has the right genetics.
The existence of blue bloods in a country's power structure is a sure and terrible sign that corruption rules to keep the rich in power.
Doesn't matter if it is in the Middle East, or anywhere else.
And a theocratic blue blood regime is perversion beyond reason.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
6
Maybe I shouldn't feel this way, but I feel bad for the underlings who executed the murder at his behest and will now die to cover for him.
7
@Cavilov What would they expect? Kind of like that Batman movie where the Joker kills all his henchmen. No difference.
2
@Cavilov -- don't feel sorry for them. They killed this poor man. Correction, they butchered this man. They have it coming. Only wish that prince Salman had it coming too -- in the form of stepping down at the very least.
1
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."
7
It's time to acknowledge the irony that the man who protects Islam's most precious buildings, has no spirituality at all. From a spiritual standpoint Mr. Khassogi was no threat at all. He was not attacked on religious grounds. No one was ridiculous enough to put out a fatwa against him, making this a totally political affair. So the Crown Prince was making himself judge, jury and executioner, something that no religion on earth countenances.
18
Cover-up version 4.0. Just the latest Trumped up claim in the "deny, deny, deny" playbook. As for the Crown Prince, "He doth protest too much.' It's time for the International Criminal Court to take up this case which involves a U.S. resident assassinated by Saudis in Turkey.
13
I don't know what is more shameful - Mohammed bin Salman's bald-faced lies or the Western media giving him a platform to keep spreading his obfuscations. There is no way a killing of this sort, planned and carried out by Saudi agents, was some rogue general's order. The Sauds quite obviously wanted this murder and orchestrated a remarkably lame attempt to cloud it in enough doubt to avoid any responsibility.
Does anyone actually expect him to declare "I ordered the killing of Khashoggi, and I stand by my order"?
105
@Mark H.
If we assume Khashoggi was a bright man, which isn’t a stretch since he was a WP affiliate, then perhaps the Saudi’s are the victims of an act of martyrdom.
Khasoggi has long written of the heinous actions of the Saud family and their lethal ways. He had even sought refuge in America. Any reasonable man had to know he was walking into a trap by walking alone into a Saudi Embassy. It might even be argued that he instigated the fist fight so that the thugs would cut off fists. Argued further that he rocked his head menacingly so that it, too, wold be lopped off.
Yes, MBS and the House of Saud, are Khashoggi’s victims. That’s their story and stey’re sticking to it.
1
@jlazcano -- embassies are supposed to be sanctuaries, not abattoirs.
The ability to "...exchange contact details by tapping their electronic name tags" at the conference seems a little bit ominous to me. Personally, I would have assumed that an electronic badge would be a great way to monitor all of the conversations at the conference.
So much for deal-making at that show!
9
I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to hear that dismembering has been going on! Round up the usual suspects.
78
The louder he squawks the guiltier he looks! Shame on him!
38
Liar liar thobe on fire.
31
I am growing weary of the alternative stories his royal highness the crown wizard keeps rolling out. He is up to his eyeballs in this.
93
Look at those ridiculous chairs. "Investor conference." What sort of ethical standards do you have if it pleases you to sit in Star Trek / Miami Vice chairs and preside over a capitalist orgy.
58
There is a report that Cambridge Analytica was involved in the deception campaign of painting MBS as a reformer. Is there truth to that?
23
Can already guess that Trump will say that the Prince’s statement is good enough for him. Don’t want to mess up those arms sales that will create from 40,000 to a million jobs (so says Trump).
45
@Suzanne Victor The arms deals might very well create all those jobs. Just not in the United States
1
@Miguel Cernichiari
We are near full employment. It can't create that many jobs.
MBS you're100% lying....own it and deal with it. Right now the bookies are giving you 2 to 1 odds on not making it to the end of November.
Pray and ask Jesus to save your soul.
20
MBS praying to Jesus? I’d love to see that.
5
And that's the end of it?
13
Hey, if they thought this killing was so "heinous," why didn't they say so weeks ago when the news of it first surfaced? The answer, of course, is they hoped their multiple attempts to cover-up the murder they directed would be successful. And now, this business of expressing their outrage is only their latest attempt to spin the thing, after the first half dozen or so attempts understandably didn't work.
We use the phrase "benefit of the doubt," but they ran through their benefits a while ago already. I guess I understand why the Times has to continue to report this soap opera, but we know they murdered Mr. Khashoggi, and what they may try to say about it doesn't matter. Well, our President is still trying to get his head around it, it seems.
36
So let me get this straight; according to the Saudis:
Take 1 - Khashoggi walked out of the consulate
Take 2 - Khashoggi’s whereabouts are unknown
Take 3 - Khashoggi died as a result of interrogation gone bad
Take 4 - Khashoggi died accidentally after a fist fight
Take 5 - Khashoggi died as part of a “heinous crime”
I have a feeling that next we will learn that George Soros, Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama all made a secret trip to Turkey and were major investors in a bone saw company.
135
@Evan Reis -- You forgot these:
4(a) - well, actually, it was a chokehold . . .
4(b) -- oh, and did we mention it was a chokehold after he did not agree to be drugged and kidnapped . . .
6
Please update with the evolving responses to each stage by POTUS.
4
Nope. He died from the fistfight first, and then from the interrogation.
1