So liberals in Honduras staged a political stunt that sends thousands of people en mass to the US. Contrary to the pics in media, about 90% of this caravan is young men.
What is it called when a group who numbers over 5,000 mostly young men that plans to cross into another country and not respect that countries laws? Its called an invasion.
If the invasion is family units and children then its usually a refugee issue, but thats assuming they apply for asylum and all plan on seeing through the process in court and agreeing to respect the outcome (i.e. live under the rule of law). This group is mostly young men looking for jobs. This is an invasion and it should be stopped, not encouraged.
What good does it do to American citizens to have 5,000 more people with no ability to speak English, think $8/hour cash is a great deal and have no skills? I think the only Americans it will do any good for is rich Americans out to exploit human beings for profit. Is that who our immigration system should benefit? Men with no skills and their rich overlords out to increase inequality even more? I would hope immigration would benefit all Americans as well as the immigrant, and I dont see why we cant create laws to have that outcome.
13
Whoever is responsible for stimulating the caravan certainly should be stopped. If the aim is admission to the US it would be difficult to imagine a means less likely to get one into this country than to join this giant march. Those encouraging the caravan cruelly and cynically take advantage of desperate people, afflicted by extreme poverty and violence, getting many of them to endanger themselves and their children on this several thousand miles futile trek.
11
Gee, advertise on social media a mass attempt to storm another country’s border and actually gets thousands of people to take part and then be surprised that this provokes outrage. Talk about tone deaf.
16
Good coverage of what's going on with internal politics down in Guatemala. Haven't noticed much of this angle from the shallow TV-news "reporters". But the count on the number of comments on this big story is odd. This article, on a big story, came out yesterday, yet gets only 182 comments ??!! That's a story in itself. Do the readers dislike coverage of an event that makes the Dems position on immigration look ridiculous ? Does a bear …………………... ?
11
The invasion of America by people of failed nation states needs to be addressed. Clearly, this dilemma is worldwide, will continue to get worse. Much worse, i.e., the invasion of Europe. The only reasonable permanent long term solution to restore stability, peace and order, is for America to establish control of these lands, get rid of failed government, install American institutions, restore order. Another word might be Colonization. Think of this as an historic opportunity for Greater America. The indigenous people will be forever grateful. Did I say it? Colonization.. A Blessing in Disguise..
8
I'm glad this caravan is happening because it's finally causing people to wake up. We got to where we were as a human species by following laws, and without borders this leads to a slippery slope of chaos.
18
Honduras has pols who can lie with the best of ours. I hope they are preparing to help these thousands of people when they return. I still can't fathom very poor people borrowing thousands of dollars for a lottery ticket purchased from criminals.
10
There is a nationwide housing shortage - many Americans can't afford a home- many barley able to pay their rent .. so just where and how are we going to shelter 5000 illegal immigrants? Why not shelter 5000 Americans first - then worry about 5000 immigrants .. BTW- I am a Democrat and I feel this why.. Now you know why Trump will win again in 2020. AMERICA FIRST!
20
Honestly, I think we need to start charging these countries w the costs we incur when they come here illegally. Pennsylvania spent 21 million dollars in 2017 for illegal immigrants who committed crimes. That’s just on the state level. Luzerne County which flipped PA to trump and sent him to the White House spent 1.1 million on incarceration of illegals county level and was reimbursed just 150k by the federal government for their effort. It’s called a chargeback. Time to institute the policy.
18
In regards to illegal immigration, the federal government should be instituting an 'Operation Boomerang'.
How about not allowing any in this caravan to put even one foot upon US soil. That is their end goal. Catch and release. Gone.
19
We must slow down and stop these migrants and immigrants. The United States has no room, no more room, to even begin to provide functional lives for any more people.
We are already a gridlocked and dysfunctional nation with our present over-population.
This situation is turning America into one of those overcrowded ferries that capsizes and in which everyone drowns. America is no safe harbor.
These people have to be educated to make stands on their own native soil and in their own native lands. No one ever escaped their problems by running away from them.
America neither needs nor wants these masses of foreigners.
22
@Reggie Now you know how Native Americans feel!
4
It may be good to remember that the Clinton and Obama were closely involved with the coup in Honduras that changed it from a real democracy into a fake one. We see now the consequences. Unfortunately Trump doesn't feel a need to undo those acts of Obama.
11
Wait a minute - how did it start? 'social media' - does that remind us of something, of a lot of things. Originally initiated deliberately and surreptitiously and strategically to distract and disrupt the U.S. Sounds like Steve Bannon/Trump and company - or the Russians. Investigate the initial source, please.
8
Their timing, regardless of motives, could not have been worse, if they indeed want freedom and decency to reign.
Someone said, "who would want to come to America now?"
My answer is "truly desperate people."
5
These migrants are breaking the law by coming to our country illegally. If we allow these 7,000 to enter, this will be an incentive to those back home to join another caravan. They will start coming by the thousands and it will become unstoppable.
We must not allow those who come here illegally to enter our country but turn them right around and send them on their way. They must return home; and if they are sincere about wanting to come to America, they must apply legally and fill out the necessary paperwork. Why should they be allowed to cut in line in front of the many who have waited years to enter. This is a travesty of justice to those who are law abiding people.
We have warned them not to come here illegally and we must not give in to these lawbreakers. If we do, we will be inundated with illegals and we will have chaos and bedlam at our doorstep. We must stop it immediately before it is too late.
31
There is a lot of hostility in the top-rated comments here — hostility directed at the people in this caravan.
It seems the dehumanizing rhetoric of the current occupant of the White House, and his fellow travelers, is seeping into Americans like a poison.
The humanity of the people in this caravan is lost as pols and much of the media treat them as props in our continuing political and cultural warfare.
What a disgrace.
6
The title of this article is in error, to say the least. To imply that this caravan is the result of a Trump strategy implies planning and involvement in creating this caravan. But the first two paragraphs point out that isn't true. Is the Board so biased and oblivious as to not care that they are spreading false news by using a title in conflict with the article? I'm sure they realize that most skim the paper by reading titles. Very disappointing for a paper that has won so many Pulitzer prizes for objective, factual reporting. But, that was a while ago, and now the ends justify the means for this paper.
20
@Ma I think you should read the headline again. It doesn't imply that the caravan is the result of a Trump strategy, rather it says that Trump's strategy is the result of the caravan. Get it?
5
I don't need Trump to stoke 'anxieties' about illegal immigration. Illegal immigration makes me angry. "It was a call to join a caravan, the work of leftist activists and politicians who had helped lead migrants north in the past. But they also tossed a political spark into the mix, blaming their right-wing government for the exodus: “The violence and poverty is expelling us.” And this is supposed to do what, make me less anxious or angry? All those people blaming the Reps this week for instigating this should be ashamed of themselves. Honduran leftists are sacrificing their people in an effort to create hate within their country for the right? What is going on in this world?!
19
I love how liberals have gone full InfoWars and decided that Trump and Putin are in it together to plunder the world and secretly the Illuminati are the ones coming out with these caravans to make Trump look good. It's pure crazy-sauce, and I find it funny that the fringes of this nation that run our national discourse now are both steeped in conspiracy theory and political innuendo.
17
A "news story" like this -- little more than a transparent anti-Trump editorial -- serves to validate his hostility towards and suspicion of the press. The piece essentially portrays Trump as the EVIL GENIUS of the paranoid left -- who might as well have initiated the threatened invasion of the US by migrants, most from Central America. Further, Trump, or indeed any one who opposes mass illegal entry into the US is curiously labelled a "racist," though Obama expressed the same opposition. This is not an election-year ploy. This migrant march is the inevitable result of the failure by both the right and left in American politics to secure the border. The Establishment GOP wants the border open to obtain cheap labor for their cronies and donors; the Democrats remain under the likely fallacious conviction that Central American and Mexican immigration will greatly increase their political base and make them the permanent governing Party. Both ends of the spectrum have exploited this situation, but their conduct flies in the face of the views of a VAST MAJORITY of Americans. The Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll finds that 76% of Americans want a radical reduction of "immigration." (Quotation marks because "immigration," by definition, is legal.) They also hate illegal immigration. A recent MIT study finds there are 2-3 times as many illegal aliens in the US as previously thought. We desperately need a grand bargain on this issue -- or else we'll inherit a whirlwind.
21
Why would any person except very desperate families WANT to come to America right now?
4
@Carolo. A quick visit to almost any country in Central America would quickly dispelled ant doubts you have as to why they want to come here. The poverty, squalor, crowding and violence are on a level we cannot imagine. You may think America is just this horrible place- it's absolute paradise compared to most of the planet.
2
" a prominent member of the opposition went to the Mexican Embassy and threatened to send out multiple caravans..."
In other words, these "migrants" are pawns in Central American Games of Thrones, with leftists trying to discredit and destabilize their governments. So much for the CIA-Trump plot theories. It is Mexican responsibility to stop and disperse this "caravan" and the responsibility of the border patrol to once and for all dis-incentivize illegal crossings through immediate repatriation.
14
This is heart-breaking on so many levels.
1
One way or another Trump or Russian operatives are behind the social media efforts that started this.
4
Imbecility and faith have no bounds. And they always play against the faithful.
So, "I am not going to do my job" is now an election strategy?
To hear the administration, we have thousands of "illegals" per month coming in, how are these people different, except we know they are coming. They are all lined up and fairly well-behaved. If they are a threat, stop them at the border. Deploy the national guard, as you have threatened, and let local families and businesses cope with the cost, hardship and general loss.
Just shut up and do your job, (which isn't talking about it).
5
The organizers sadly underestimated the intensity of racism in America.
5
Too simplistic to call wanting to control borders racist.
It's more about wanting not to overwhelm the system and encourage more of the same.
Do you want your front door, e.g., bum rushed by those wanting to move in?
17
@courtney T. The left uses racism to quell any discussion of immigration on any level.
As usual, the so called progressive media wants to present this caravan as mostly women and children, and they manage to distribute photos to support that narrative. But most photos show about 90% young adult males. And the imagery of men crammed onto trucks, flying the Honduran flag as they advance toward the southern U.S. border do seem to represent an invasion. The optics are bad, even if the reality is less threatening. Why aren’t they carrying an American flag? It’s so unfortunate that this event is being bungled and is most likely to yield the opposite result they intended. Democrats silence is idiocy and out of step with many, if not most, of their base.
I am outraged that the causes I care most about, women’s rights, the environment, education, voting rights, etc will be sacrificed due to illegal migration. To paraphrase: ‘this is not the hill I chose to die on’. But events have chosen otherwise.
16
The mooch march continues. Letting them into our country will encourage more of the same. While waiting for their asylum hearings, if they even bother to show up, they'll have a baby or three. Then they're in. About as temporary as a tattoo.
22
@MS And how did your ancestors arrive in this country?
3
@Vert. So we're not allowed to have laws or a border like every country on earth?
1
As we've seen here in the US, social media can be manipulated, both to sway elections and to create real-life events such as protests.
I'm not sure the NYT has gotten to the bottom of where the initial momentum came from. Fuentes was a supporter of the idea, not the initiator.
What is clear is that the Trump-friendly Honduran state-controlled media was the catalyst that made the size of the caravan explode, once it was started by who-knows-who on social media.
A missing element here seems to be that Hernandez' party took power in 2009 in what practically everyone called a coup. South American nations united to decry it. Obama opposed it. Hillary opposed it. But who liked it? Some members of the US GOP - Jim DeMint and some Pentagon-connected officials. Because it was "anti-communist".
Today, that government is oppressive & extremely violent.
Not surprisingly, that govt also has a good relationship with the Trump administration.
While the NYT says the Honduran govt "panicked", I only see evidence in the article of them trying to blame the caravan on left-wing figures.
It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to think that US operatives aligned with the current administration contrived the initial social media interest, and that a GOP-friendly govt then knowingly gave it a boost with TV coverage. All in time for the mid terms.
Stranger things have happened in politics.
7
How true, as you read the mind of a cruel demagogue...abusing the power of his presidency. As expected, Trump will try to turn things around, and facts against him he'll use for his own advantage; after all, he is a swine living in a pig sty, and is convinced all others do likewise, however divorced from reality. His inveterate lack of feelings just compounds his joy in being cruel to the least amon us. Can't we see that Trump is an embittered, resentful, and spiteful thug seeking redemption in all the wrong places? And further, that his narcissism has no remedy...other that isolating him and confining his power to rot in his own inconsequence...by ignoring him?
4
“The caravan gave him (Trump) a new, politically advantageous story to tell.” Nothing further from the truth. The caravan was created to bring chaos and to show Trump in a bad light. The timing is very telling, coinciding with the mid-term elections. Although if you dig deeper it is not Trump the Left is after, but the destruction of the Republic which is their actual goal.
Mr. Muñoz is right about Soros being involved in the funding of the caravan. Maybe you should look into CARA, Catholics Legal Immigration Network, Inc., and American Immigration Council which are being involved in “helping” the “caravan.”. You will find they have been getting millions from Soros over the years. Oh, and let’s not forget Pueblo Sin Fronteras. The Left is running out of options, desperate to take control and willing to say and do anything...even if it takes sending fake bombs.
14
“The only thing we have to fear Is Fear itself” — FDR
"Criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in. I have alerted Border Patrol and Military that this is a National Emergy. Must change laws!" — Donald Trump
2
If we can station 28,000 of our troops at the border of South Korea with the North there, we can put at least that many here to protect our southern border. Isn't this why we have a military?
19
This should be considered an invasion to our Nation, and therefore, dealt with it accordingly. There was a very simple solution that should have been implemented since the last “caravan”: next time this happens there will be an executive order prohibiting the remesas, and financial aid will be cut off immediately. Period. End of “caravans.”
21
I think this is a cover story. Can there be any thinking person who thought that sending a caravan of immigrants to the US when the president has made it part of his platform to attack them as "animals" and "criminals" was going to hurt Trump? And I suppose its just a coincidence this is 2 weeks before the election instead of 2 months before or 2 weeks after.
No, something doesn't smell right with this story.
12
Reminds me of Reagan's hysteria over Nicaragua, and his breathless claim "they are only a 3-day drive from the US border." As if a country with one working elevator was somehow going to invade the US.
Why are Republicans so easily duped by obviously stupid claims? Is it any wonder that Dems can't reach them? They are so ignorant and gullible they can hardly go a day without another Repub lie getting them in a tizzy.
7
Just keep 'em out of HERE!
17
Somehow its hard not to wonder if there is some sort of hidden hand behind all of this. The timing is just too convenient...
I am a strong believer in immigration and that diversity makes this country stronger not weaker. I believe in sanctuary for those fleeing persecution, violence and for those seeking a better future for themselves and their children. That said if the people in this caravan think that by even the talk of storming the border they are helping their cause they are deluded.
But taking a step back, what an indictment of the leadership of the countries these people are leaving. Leaving their country because whatever they find in the US it is better than what they are leaving is quite a statement of the failure of these countries to provide a viable future for their citizens.
11
Trump has a gift for turning what might be adverse publicity into a rallying point for the reprehensible sheep he calls his base. He is trying the same trick with the recent spate of bombs sent to Democrats and the party's supporters when he blames them on the media instead of on his own praise for violence. The important thing about Trump's view of himself is that he is never at fault when things go wrong, but always worthy of full credit when things go well.
When will people stop falling for this? I am in despair.
5
This is a good article in creating a more objective picture of the caravan. Dems and Repubs have been arguing over which one of them is 'to blame' for this caravan, again reinforcing the notion that only US interests are important in any crisis. When in fact the cause is more pragmatic, more local -Honduro-centric. The people despise their president and engaged in behavior to embarrass him, behavior that has taken on a life of its own. Now many groups are attempting to usurp the needs of the caravan participants for their own motives. Be that as it may, individuals who enter the US for quality of life/economic reasons do not meet the criteria of refugee status or admission. Unless they can prove religious, ethnic, or specific governmental targeted persecution, they will not be accepted. Whether they stay or not in the US- that is of course another question. The US would benefit from bright English speaking (some fluency) students/entrepreneurs but to simply allow laborers and non English speakers in because they want to make $10 U.S. an hour is not an economic model in which we can abide. I think we should consider raising merit based immigration to 250K a year. That number seems about right.
5
To blame this caravan on Trump is like blaming the Khashoggi murder on him and the Republicans. Ridiculous.
That said, now what? There are potentially millions of folks in central and south America who would love nothing more than to live here. It's not possible to accommodate that many, let alone to process their applications. Our country does benefit from immigration, but each one needs to be scrutinized. Nor should those who simply march in deserve preferential access.
Some democrats are beyond naïve thinking we should merely accept wave after wave of migrants. Wait until boatloads come from Africa and elsewhere. Experts need to determine how many people we can absorb, safely, and what skills, even if that be kitchen help, we require. Experts also need to review where new arrivals seeking asylum should go. Imagine if most of them "choose" NYC.
Without sensible policy, and border control, we will not cope.
19
@Rosalie Lieberman- You can always find some people whose point of view is "beyond naive", but I don't actually know anyone of any political persuasion who thinks we should let anyone just migrate into the country without sensible policies and border control.
6
@Rosalie Lieberman Can't name a single Democrat who is accepting of wave after wave...is that what the Trump talking points have had you quote?.../it's not the case and the reality is their country is ate odds with their people...period...
2
@Dave Hurley
Read some of the other comments, about how we should be caring for these people when they arrive. Give them food, clothing, yes, but then tell them to fill out forms, submit them, and go back home.
Think that will happen without smearing the Administration? Whatever Trump's flaws, he didn't create the problems, long existing, in many of the countries south of the border.
The media is covering the caravan with nonstop focus of Trump's "lying", with no mention of the many issues that are uncomfortable for Democrats. The media is so sure there are no bad guys in this caravan - they know that how?
13
The comments here are disturbing.
Trump's take on the caravan is working! The commenters here who say that the marchers are all military aged men or that Trump must send the army (what a tragedy that the Space Force isn't ready yet) to the border are deplorable nonsense.
The last caravan, earlier this year, wound up with only a handful of people being let in to the country yet ancient GOP trouble makers like Newt Gingrich are fanning the phony flames of invasion.
Gingrich said, “It creates a safety factor” for those voters. “If the first 7,000 to 15,000 get in, what signal does that send?”
He knows full well that 15,000 people will not "get in".
How sad, a wise President should say, that a few thousand poor people, more than 1000 miles from the Southern California border, and moving very slowly, would be seen as such a dire threat to our great nation.
This is literally fear mongering.
8
I'm amazed at the comments from leftist readers on this subject that goes to show how people will twist facts and logic to defend their world view. The main themes:
1) The caravan is a secret Trump plot to win Republican votes in the midterm election. Notice that they believe this although they have no evidence for it and that they are only upset that some of their candidates may lose their races, not that thousands of people are trying to crash our border.
2) It's all the CIA's fault for creating political tyranny, social violence and economic failure in Central America. Otherwise those countries would be peaceful, productive democracies and no one would want to leave them.
3) The migrants' lives are hard and some may be in peril. Therefore, if they want to live in this country, it's our duty to take them in - regardless of the consequences for us.
14
@PWR There have been little mention by anyone but the right that the left is saying they are behind it....those comments are formed by the words out of the POTUS's mouth, not any Democrat I've heard ...the CIA has been involved for decades with unrest in the South American governments....Hernandez is a Trump acolyte so any link is closer to him than any other party affiliation...not one Democrat has claimed allowing these people in, even though this group is a small group....no one has pushed for open borders, it's just a RWNJ talking point for the base to rally behind...it's far from the truth when all parties sit down and try to fix things...the right issuing this for their own cover..
5
Let's get one thing clear, there is no relationship between 'leftist' political philosophy or belief in 'open borders' or 'mass uncontrolled immigration' or whatever Russian-bot planted term we are using today. It's more likely to be libertarians, free market liberals or anarchists, rather than a democratic socialists, advocating for freedom of movement on the grounds of their political beliefs. Just because you don't like leftists, and you don't like asylum seekers, it doesn't mean the 2 things are related. I'm sorry that grown up life can't be neat and tidy for you.
If someone of the left has sympathy for these migrants it is really is just a coincidence. Perhaps they are Christians, who believe in the principal of asylum, or perhaps they are just fans of international law? I don't get why American 'rightists', Hungarians and Australians don't just campaign to leave the UN Refugee Conventions instead of playing this game where they pretend that there isn't a universal right to claim asylum in whichever country your choose even if you are *also* migrating for economic reasons. It turned out that the Post War generation severely overestimated the compassion of their descendants. Or maybe they never genuinely expected international travel to become so easy, or for so many repressive regimes to collapse and start leaking people
Let the world see the US for what it is. Stop offering asylum, cede all moral authority and hope and pray you will never need refuge yourself...
3
No major news organization has covered this story. The question is, WHY people are leaving their homes. What is going on in Honduras? What are the conditions in Honduras that are driving people to this extreme.
Please, NYT, I count on you to do the work of providing the relationship of military aid to Honduras, the struggle for decent government there, the political violence.
Without knowing WHY people are leaving the rationale is left to those who would use asylum seekers a fuel for inciting hatred of immigrants. If they control the narrative it can lead to more violence and sorrow.
Please, NYT, assign someone to this story and tell it.
3
@Lois The background to this story has been well covered by the media over decades. I don't know how you have missed it.
The root of the problem is that Honduras has historically been a painfully poor nation ruled by an elite with little concern for the daily lives of its citizens.
In the last decade, as the Mexican government has cracked down on the drug cartels there, they have moved their operations to Honduras. This resulted in an explosion on gang activity in Honduras. These gangs terrorize the poverty stricken citizens, stealing the little they earn and threatening and committing violence against them. Honduras has one of the highest murder rates in the world.
The US has aided the Honduran elite in exploiting the country. Early in the 20th Century, the US often sent troops. In this century, the US has provided "aid" in the form of military and police subsidies that the elite has used to suppress popular discontent. The most reason example of this is the US support of the current government, installed after an election considered tainted by cheating by international observers, but supported completely by the US.
None of this is new. As the population of Honduras grows and the effects of climate change damage their agriculture, the situation has become more desperate.
All of these topics can be found via Google searches.
I hope this helps you to understand the situation.
5
@Lois The article clearly states why they are leaving ; it started as a ploy to embarrass the Honduran President ; as for decent government there , and political violence , well what would you call pipe bombs here ? The Honduran migrants in the caravan are clearly economic migrants and I do believe the NYTs has told the story here . Major news organizations have covered the story ad nauseum , this is not a new story , merely the number is greater trying to storm the gates like they did in Europe .
@Larry Segall I haven't missed it. I have been following it for 40 years. But I know that the misery of Central America and how it got to this point have dropped off the news cycle and public radar. Without that context the immigrant haters can distort the story and that is cruel.
It was not the GOP’s idea to encourage people to join this “caravan”. It might come as a surprise to some people that most voters and citizens do not want more migrants. In fact, most would be in favor of restricting all immigration. There is nothing unique,y America about this. Most nations,are enacting laws to restrict immigration at this point. If Democrats want to win elections, they will realize this.
24
@Maureen But, Maureen (and others), wouldn't a sensible and responsible U. S. Administration do SOMETHING to help Central American improve the lives and prospects of their citizens (who would, in the main, much prefer to stay home and work to make their national conditions better), rather than (as Trump seems determined to do) send our troops to "protect" our border and threaten these Central American countries with withdrawal of the pittance in aid we currently provide? Trump claims we've given these countries lots and lots, and they've given us nothing; but that's a totally ignorant and untrue statement. (Who has made the huge profits from C. A. products like coffee, bananas, other fruits?) The C. A. nations' current regimes are (many) far from perfect; but Trump's present policies and threats only insure that more and more C. A. citizens will seek refuge in the north at great risk and uncertainly, when I'm certain when Central America (as a whole) wants and needs is a pathway, not to the U. S. but to a viable future in their own countries,
2
@Maureen This is true that American's don't really want a flood...but be rational in that as large as America is, 3,000 desperate families is not a flood...it is a trickle that happens to be in a group. Our law permits persons to seek asylum but we are no longer a nation of law, we are being ruled by wanna-be dictator who is content to use these unfortunate people as a political pawn. Our immigration problem was cause BY US! not by people seeking safety and freedom.
WE were all immigrants from other places for most of the exact same reasons with the exception of Native Americans whom we tried to exterminate after stealing their land.
3
... And the African Americans brought involuntarily.
Always funny when right wing commenters under articles such as these resort to saying things like "why don't they fix their own countries?". Why didn't the ancestors of most of the people in the United States fix their own countries?!
2
I believe in immigration to this great nation.
My family escaped European pograms in the late 19th century and immigrated here legally through Ellis island
My wife of nearly 30 years is a Brazilian. We met at college and married and still had to go through a lengthy and costly legal process
Living in miami, I know plenty of hard working immigrants from doctors and lawyers and neighbors to even our housekeeping lady, who is from Honduras.
All are here legally, came here through various programs, visas, etc. all pay taxes.
Bottom line is immigration makes us who we are, but when it’s legal it makes us stronger.
What is happening in Central America is their problem, not ours.
Escaping gang violence is not the same as escaping racial or government persecution or applying for a visa and jumping through bureaucratic hoops
both of which my family has done for more than a hundred years, including paying it forward to this great country through military service dating back to WW2 and all conflicts since.
24
This was my first time reading about the political motivation behind the caravan. I won't judge except to say what an incredibly risky way to try to make a point. Part of me thinks their mission would have been better served by people staying in their home country and working internally to make the political changes they seek, not by leaving the country and setting off so many (likely unforeseen) other events that have surrounded this caravan since it started.
26
@Matt W Staying home and speaking out means being attacked (ie, killed) by the government, cartels, etc. They have been wildly successful in highlighting the utter corruption in their country in a way it could not have happened had they stayed home.
3
Read this article describing multiple social media false images (ie taken at times and locations that have no relation to the caravan) stirring up fear about the caravan
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/world/americas/migrant-caravan-fake-i...?
It seems pretty obvious this caravan has become a "dirty trick" along the line of Nixon's agent provocateurs that were used to win the 1968 election against Humphrey
11
"The flier began circulating on social media in Honduras this month, showing a lone migrant sketched against a bright red backdrop.
It was a call to join a caravan"
On Social Media? Theory: this is being spread by the same type of operatives who spread pizzagate, or who pretended to represent organizations setting up rallies designed to conflict.
OF course many well meaning people are involved, and people fleeing for their lives are joining, but the timing, just befoe the election and exploitation by Trump and Fox are suspicious
Facebook and others: please check the background of those who are catalyzing the most spreading.
17
Well, actually Democrats should be blamed. If 6 months into Obama's 1st term he and his SOS Hilary Clinton would not have supported the military coup in Honduras, a coup initiated by a US School of America (now under acronym WHINSEC) grad, and pushed for the reinstatement of the democratically elected Alaya, the country might not now be one where violence is rampant and people have to leave or face death.
If course context is everything, and it would behoove the newspaper of record to fill in these important blanks as to how the US economic foreign policy, in the interest of profit for US corporations, not for real democracy, has once again fomented a failing state where oligarchs rule.
I guess grifters have to grift, and even adopting the language of the right wing us symptomatic of that, as in your adopting the charged language of the right in this case the use of the word "caravan."
8
@Munda Squire I will accept responsibility of the Democrats for this if you'll acknowledge responsibility of the Republicans for Nicaragua, etc. But I take it that your point is that both parties - and all Americans - are responsible for this?
3
@E
Actually, the poster is quite clear that Hillary Clinton is responsible. It's a good think we don't have a border w. Libya.
People in the caravan should return to their home countries and apply legally through the US embassies there, for entry into the United States. They will have to fill out paperwork. They will have to wait. But in time they will be allowed to enter and to work here. I am a legal immigrant who filled out voluminous immigration paperwork, worried and waited, and finally got my green card in about two years. The outlaws in this caravan make me want to puke.
36
All the liberals scream, "Let them in!" -- but they never scream, "They can live with me!"
47
What republican organization hired these activists in Honduras? They did a good job that is for sure. This is right out of the Goebbels handbook.
16
Not a word from Democrats. Just proves their true agenda is open borders and a welfare state.
32
Trump is puppet of Putin and now disinfrachised U.S. Citizens are helping Putin. One of them is Trump.
1
The Republican farmers are creating this decades old flood of immigrants. They don't want to pay Americans now 15.00 an hour plus health care. You need health care with skin cancers now at an all time high. The GOP farmers only pay slave wages to the immigrants of 2.00 a day and no health care. Not even a livable wage. So not my President Trump get your facts straight and quit blaming us Democrats for you so divided GOP party. The GOP farmers want the 2.00 a day time back you GOP can't stop your culture of corruption you started.
11
I do not believe farming is an exclusively Republican undertaking. Democrat farmers also hire immigrant workers at the same miserly rate of compensation
2
@D.j.j.k.
So they are coming because wages are so low here? Makes total sense.
1
NYT - why are you even bothering to cover this story? The migrants are more than a thousand miles away from the US border. Most of the people will either return home or be granted a humanitarian visa and remain in Mexico. A few might hop a freight train and actually make it to the border where they will be arrested and deported. In the meantime the US media has simply fanned the flames of the Trump narrative about the others coming to invade America. I recently saw a Facebook post from a man who went to the Army’s recruitment office to re-enlist in hopes of being deployed to the Mexican border, he is 70 years old! There are many important issues that the US media can focus on. What ever happened to Afghanistan?
12
The timing of this is very suspicious. Given all the GOP voter suppression actions, etc., I'm convinced they will do anything in their attempts to undermine democracy. Why have we never had caravans like this before? Why are they occurring right before the election. Duh! I live near Mosinee, Wisconsin where Trump, the heretofore hatemonger, made his phony pleas for tolerance, etc. yesterday. What a complete joke! Go watch clips of the 2016 GOP national convention--the entire thing was a hate fest.
21
Ohio and Honduras are about the same size in square miles. Ohio has about 2 million more people, about 11 million to 9 million. Population is not the problem. US economic hegemony and CIA interference is the problem, in contradiction to what some posters have stated in this thread.
11
@Munda Squire
Yes, and NRA - protected gun running and US consumption of drugs that gives power to the violent gangs
8
@Lynn are you posting about Eric Holder and his "fast and furious" gun deal?
I had a dream last night that the refugees arrived at the border and so many people didn't want hate to win that there were thousands of Americans with carfulls and truckfulls of food, water, clothing, supplies and information that a genuine human unity and kindness permeated the nation.
5
How I wish. America has lost its heart and soul.
1
@Mary
For how long, and how many?
Why do we not focus on helping our friends in Latin America? Why do we not focus on what the United States can do to help build the economies of Mexico, Honduras, and other countries in Central America? The answer to the illegal immigrant problems from Mexico and Central America is to work with our friends in the region and build up their economies. Why, for example, have "free trade" with China and not put that benefit towards helping Mexico and Central America? The Caravan and illegal immigration is a symptom of the bigger disease: the failed economies south of the border.
10
@Jason McDonald The American taxpayer gives billions to these countries each year.
1
Understand history. The US helped in destabilizing Honduras for a long time. Recently, the US supported an unconstitutional, illegitimate election there last November. In 2009 the US also supported a coup d'etat.What we are seeing is an end result of political and economic devastation that US foreign policy had a hand in for many, many, many years.The aid that the US government is threatening to cut to Honduras is military aid to militarize the country. Must we keep exporting these US "products" to poor countries? Analyze the real problem to understand and work on solutions.
16
Asylum eligibility does not include being poor and searching for better economic opportunities.
The large number of illegal immigrants from Central America that have been coming to the US for this reason are clogging the system the US has in place to consider Asylum applications and negatively impact those with valid claims.
57
What ever the reason for its origins, the caravan must be turned away.
We do not need 7000 (more) poor people in this country, we have enough Americans already wearing that hat....take care for them first.
57
This migrant situation actually helped and prepared me for the coming election. Instead of agonizing over whom to vote for it now appears I am going to vote all Republican.
35
@Chris Anderson
"it now appears I am going to vote all Republican."
how easily Republiccans manipulate you as they pick the pockets of working people, throw America deep into debt, which will raise interest rates, take away Social Security and Medicare, and make insurance for anyone with pre-existing conditions prohibitively expensive.....but, look, mothers walking a thousand miles fleeing gun violence to protect their children!! stop them !!!!eeeek!!!
15
At least you admit that this caravan has been a political stunt from its very inception. Here is one inconvenient fact that the NYTimes seemingly never notes: if someone from Central America has a well founded fear of persecution, where else could that person apply for asylum that happens to be located between Central America and the United States? Mexico. Mexico is a party to the 1951 Convention and 1967 Additional Protocol on Refugees. If the person was a true refugee, he/she would apply for protection as soon as he/she could -- in Mexico.
51
@CK Currently, as a country, Mexico's threat level, according to the State Department, is a level two. That means tourists should "be aware of heightened risks to safety and security."
It's a radical thing to pick yourself up, leave your home, and head off with almost no possessions to another land. At least acknowledge the real problems these people have and count your blessing that you're not in their place.
I don't claim to know a solution, though my guess is that the USA could do much better than we are now to help improve the situation within Honduras. Our history in Central America isn't one we can be proud of for the most part.
But even if we must turn down these people at our border, there is no justification for treating them with disrespect or cruelty. They are fellow human beings, and they are certainly suffering. I imagine myself in their shoes, because of course it's only luck that you and I are not part of that caravan.
5
"The violence and poverty is expelling us".
What is expelling people from Honduras is Hondurans's failed attempt to stuff over 6 times as many people into the country as were there in 1950.
32
How? It's a reliable fear-mongering issue to whip up the usual false-information GOP voters right before an election.
This is just SOP for the right-wing, who don't want voters focusing on healthcare, jobs, corruption, incompetence, etc.
10
These people in the caravan should be stopped at the US border and turned back. I’ll bet there is not one valid entry visa, passport or work permit in the whole mob. Make them walk all the way back to Honduras.
33
In other words the so called “caravan” and the incitement and support given to it has become a big problem for the provocative left in both countries. Until Democrats don’t denounce illegal immigration in clear words, they will lose.
41
FYI: Number ONE issue for American voters is HEALTHCARE!
I find it puzzling how the media is handling the mass approaching our borders. It's as though anything that might allow Trump a political "win" is now kryptonite to be avoided at all costs.
First, it refused to acknowledge there might be dangerous people among this mass, even calling Trump a liar, even while it couldn't prove its own claim that there weren't dangerous people in it. An objective media would have investigated instead of just arguing with Trump.
Second, it refuses to examine what will happen when this mass arrives at our border. Is it stockpiling boxes of hankies for all the tears it will shed? Is it plotting how this will be placed at Trump's doorstep -- that is, his fault like everything else that happens?
The media's silence is itself a story. It will probably fall to FoxNews to cover it. Just as it always does.
43
The southern border had 400,000 apprehensions last year. Central Americas population has exploded by 4-5 x in the last 60 years to 180 million. Most of the problems of that part of the world are not the result of the CIA, u.s. companies or anything else. It's too many people. This is not a political stunt by trump to "exploit" the situation, it is an invasion, pure and simple. We had better come up with a plan to help that part of the world with economic aid, family planning and education or be prepared to concede this country to become a third world province of Central America. Go ahead, elect democrats. It's not going to change anything. This is like Europe. You either let everyone flood in, or you come up with a plan to help that part of the world become a better place to live, starting with family planning.
35
Unfortunately, the Times may be spreading right wing fake news. Of course Hondurans want to leave. They have always been dirt poor and persecuted. Now, Honduras is one of the early victims of global warming which has devastated local farming.
There is evidence that the mission is amply funded by someone but certainly not by the migrants. One of the immediate clues is from VP Pence who said the Venezuelans are funding the exodus. That is fake news. President Hernandez of Honduras is a strongman. The OAS said his recent election was fraudulent and should be done over democratically. There is simply no way the Honduras would allow Venezuela to conduct such an operation within its borders. A former Honduran congressman and current radio talk show host, Bartolo Fuentes, is identified as the person organizing the effort. He does have strong immigrant credentials but little information is available about him. That he is being allowed to do so in a country that does not permit serious dissent is key. He has been recruited for the effort. Who else could be funding the effort. Well consider who benefits if the exodus arrives on US borders just before the election which Trump says is all about him. He is echoing the false story about Venezuela. He certainly knows what is going on but does not have to take responsibility. There are vast oceans of right wing dark money that can get the job done.
11
@Common cause So according to your conspiracy theory, Fuentes is either in on the whole thing or he's just a dupe for the authoritarian Honduran government despite his "strong immigrant credentials" and accompanying assumed intelligence.
If what you are writing is true, then Democrats in the United States shouldn't take the bait if some people from this caravan do manage to reach the U.S. border some time next week. They should reject entry into the U.S. by anybody from this caravan, calling out Donald Trump & Co. for deliberately manufacturing this crisis just prior to the November 6 elections.
Only time will tell if Democrats have the good sense to do such a thing. If they buckle under pressure from lobbying groups and call for admitting members of this caravan on humanitarian or "U.S. foreign policy caused misery in Honduras" grounds, they will simply fall right into the trap set for them and suffer the consequences at the polls.
9
@AR
Yes, Fuentes role is very unclear. I wouldn't call him a dupe. There are plenty of ways that thug dictators can get someone to do their bidding.
2. The Democrats have been put in a difficult positon - call it a trap if you will. I am an Independent. Hilary Clinton argued against taking action against President Hernandez when she was Secretary of State. She has been no help.
3. The point is not that we grant them asylum based on US foreign policy causing mysery. It is based on President Trump's policy of manufacturing crises for political leverage.
4. It is difficult to know what the Democrats should do other than making sure the truth is known. If this is a fabricated crises manufactured by far right wing interests along with Trump, the American people should be informed. The best action is to try to correct the undemocratic situation in Honduras which has contributed to the mess. If we have created their problem, which I believe to be the case, the humanitarian action would be to try to help these peasants avoid starvation and establish them in a secure location but not necessarily in the US. If we have created their problem, which I believe to be the case, we are morally obliged to help correct it.
5. We are also morally obliged to stop Trump from actions that destroy the lives of peasants and families for his own personal benefit.
1
Those who favor open borders have muddied the waters with dropping the distinction between legal and illegal immigration to this country. A majority of Americans favor controlled, legal immigration. Even among Democrats, illegal immigration is considered a problem.
How did we get to the point where a large group of illegal immigrants are making their way to the US border and we are scrambling to decide how best to handle the situation.
51
@D Smith
"How did we get to the point .."
by allowing gun running south, buying drugs the cartels sell, and failure to work with our neighbors to strengthen regional economies, which would provide markets for our goods and enable people to remain in their communities.
8
@D Smith I get that it sounds good and serves a political purpose to call the migrants " illegal immigrants" - but they aren't immigrants or in the US illegally until/unless they enter the country illegally. Simple fact. But doesn't sound as satisfyingly scary.
1
I hope the people in this caravan are prevented from stepping one foot into this country where they can make their phony asylum claims.
54
Everyone knows that people in the caravan are being paid by right wing operatives in an effort to gain GOP midterm votes. A caravan doesn't just conveniently appear out of no where and start marching toward the border. Who are these people: they are actors and they are being paid to perform in a secret plot to scare people into supporting a Trump agenda. There, I started my own conspiracy theory today. Fly, fly, fly, little bird....
4
@stp - "Everyone knows that people in the caravan are being paid by right wing operatives in an effort to gain GOP midterm votes."
More like everyone now knows that is is what you believe. Huge difference.
4
"They never expected it to ignite an international firestorm."
And why did they never expect that? I've always been under the impression that non-Americans have a far greater understanding of U.S. politics than Americans do of politics in other countries, but I was wrong in this case. With Donald Trump in the White House and mid-term elections approaching, how could these caravan-organizing activists in Honduras NOT have realized they were going to ignite an international firestorm?
Yes, let's show the world our unhappiness with the corrupt government of Honduras by...organizing a caravan of at least 1,000 fleeing people to march through Guatemala and Mexico all the way to the border with the United States. The activists underestimated how big the caravan would become, and apparently they forgot that Donald Trump was president of the United States.
15
First, the fact that Democrats feel this is a Republican strategy, and worried about it, shows they are uncomfortable in their own lack of support for border controls and how the country feels about the need for them.
Secondly, if these people in fact reach the border and we are forced to allow them in due to our weak asylum loopholes, there will be a national outcry to both parties in Congress to tighten the laws. This has become too big an event to bury once they arrive.
41
I agree that this caravan of migrants is an election strategy; an election move by the Radical Left, which has back-fired on them because it has only made the supporters of the President, Donald J. Trump, more resilient in support of him and the reforms he has brought to America, one of which is to stop illegal immigration into the United States of America. Thank you,
38
@Southern Boy. The lefts only part in this has been the encouraging of illegal immigration and thwarting our laws. It's how we got 10-20 million here now.
23
I'm confused Southern Boy. If Trump's policy is so great how do you explain the 7000 refugees headed this way? Based on your "resilient" reaction to the 'Caravan' I'm quite baffled as to how it would work as a Radical Left strategy if it (didn't) "back-fire" as you so aptly say it did.
1
@Al The left didn't hire undocumented immigrants in this country; business owners, many of them solidly Republican, preferred cheap labor & did so; American homeowners (many conservatives there, too) stopped cleaning their own houses and moving their own lawns (or hiring the kid next door) -- the mom & pop landscaping operations, largely comprised of illegal immigrants, did the job more reliably -- and, of course, cheaply. The list goes on and on. It is absurd to blame the left for a chief driver of illegal immigration, which is the availability of jobs here & the skirting of rules by employers (yep -- many of them Republicans & Fox News afficionados). As for encouraging illegal immigration? The Obama administration deported 2.5 million people in the course of his term, more than any previous president.
1
After I retired from teaching, I became a volunteer teacher at an ESL program for immigrant women. I love working with them; I have found it so rewarding. They are very eager to learn English, find jobs, talk to their children's teachers, help family members and others in their communities, here and in their home countries. I have so enjoyed getting to know them and hearing their life stories. They run the gamut from those who are illiterate and cannot even write their names to one woman who was a doctor in her native country. Many work nights and then attend six hours of school each weekday. At least half have children living in their home countries. Although they come from 21 countries, 85% are from Central America, mostly El Salvador. No one is ever asked her immigration status. The cost of the program is paid for by a NYS grant. Babysitting is provided for free. I am very pro-immigrant. I have great sympathy for them. I respect their desire to come here and live the American Dream. That said, I sincerely believe that this caravan of people cannot be allowed in. We simply cannot set this precedent. We should lend support to all of the people who are going through the process of entering legally. And yes, help those who are already here, even if illegally. We need to provide quality education, health care, job training, support services, and help for them rise into the Middle Class. Congress must create a comprehensive, orderly plan, and allocate funding, to do this.
27
@DPMack. The supply of people from that part of the world is basically limitless. 25% of the entire population of El Salvador has moved here already and it hasn't put a dent in the numbers. The asylum/immigration laws are no longer applicable to an invasion like this. A different approach is needed.
17
Who should pay for this? The needy current U.S. citizens who are on welfare? The working class who are struggling to get by?
Should the middle class, who worked very hard to get where they are, pay the tab? Should we destroy the economic engine, free markets and competition, that made America great long before Trump stole the phrase?
Someone needs to explain how existing citizens of this great country benefit from allowing indigent immigrants to crossover borders.
No one on the left has done this.
40
@sbanicki
'Someone needs to explain how existing citizens of this great country benefit from allowing indigent immigrants to crossover borders.'
Amazon, Uber, Construction industry etc. benefit from illegal migration. And so do those looking to employ nannies, gardener and other domestic workers. All in all upper middle class and the rich benefit, while all of America pays.
Once again the Democrats conceded the immigration issue to Trump to run on by not spearheading or participating in the Immigration reforms and allowing draconian immigration laws to continue on the books for political purposes. In 2016, Trump won the presidential election by promoting bold and courageous proposals and then as president he kept his promises even beginning building the wall and testing prototype models.
Most Americans of both parties want a secure border and welcome with open arms any legal immigrants. But by enforcing a zero tolerance policy against asylum seekers, the Trump administration for a few months lost some of the bipartisan support when it became apparent that the enforcement of the zero tolerance policy resulted in separation of families for extended periods of time as a deterrent to new asylum seekers.
With desperate migrants from over populated impoverished, poorly governed central American countries heading to the US border sooner or later just before the November elections, the Trump card has reemerged. Why? because Congress failed to reform immigration laws and left loopholes for illegals to enter our porous borders and left a wide opening for caravans after caravans to launch an exodus.
This election is really Trump against the current congress that did not leave too many options to Trump to deal with the crisis at the border. On top the Obama era DACA persons are thrown under a bus by failure of Congress to provide legal residency.
15
Trump says he would sign a bipartisan immigration bill. Legislators on both sides of the aisle worked hard to give him a bill that included border security, but not the infamous wall, and help for those already here. Trump refused to sign it. He prefers the situation to remain the same, how else will he gin up the masses with his hateful chants?
5
@Girish Kotwal You do realize that Congress is controlled by Republicans who have ramrodded through whatever odious acts it pleases them for the past two years? The fact that no immigration legislation has been passed cannot be laid at the feet of Democrats. It is more likely that the Rs see this issue as a political winner to be pulled out and waved around as their trump card at election time. Much like abortion.
4
What the mainstream press seems to fail to address that this marauding horde heading to our country is composed of almost all military age men. The inaction of Trump to send the military to the southern border is a disgrace.
56
@Michael S. Mass. Given climate change and the worlds exploding populations the semi orderly process of immigration is no longer a viable. We need to come up with a short term way to stop this and a longterm process to stop the, at this point, limitless supply of people from that part of the world.
15
Right. I guess all those toddlers and babies in their mother's arms will grow up in the next 1000 miles to be military conscripts.
3
@Michael S. Mass
There are myriad reasons the mainstream media refuses to cover this "marauding horde". One is it might have to investigate its makeup.
The FBI estimates that 1% of all illegal immigrants here are gang members. If The Times really wanted to know who is in this group, it could easily interview Homeland Security, the FBI and border patrol.
What American would invite a group into its home knowing 1% of the group consists of gang members?
18
From a purely political perspective...what a bonehead move. A peek around the world would have easily shown these 'leftist activists and politicians' how well the immigrant story plays out in countries with rising nationalism - the UK and Germany say hello - and the US is not Canada, especially not now.
Sadly, these migrants' truth doesn't matter to a lot of people, and this will become a nasty, divisive wedge to be shoved down people's throats, further dividing and inciting the electorate on the eve of one of the most important elections in a century.
23
The Honduran immigrant caravan may or may not be a reality on ground but it has become a wolf cry for Trump to attract attention to and Stoke fears of immigrants in the minds of voters. This shows that whatever evokes fear and engenders hatred for the "other" becomes a ready tool for Trump to garner support for his culturally toxic and essentially divisive political agenda.
20
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma
This reporting still does not satisfy the hounding thought that it has been started by Trump supporters hate mongers in an illegal slap to this Democracy.
4
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Legal immigrants are good and welcomed. But, we do not want illegals
2
The church does it, the government does it - using the world's poor and needy for political gain is despicable.
18
Other than the desperation of this group of migrants, two things have stood out to me about the coverage of the caravan:
1) It got its start via social media—as mentioned in the NYTDaily, 24 October—when many of the would be migrants read about it on, and then networked through, social media to get it started, and
2) That this caravan seems like a “gift” to the Republicans before the midterms.
These stood out to me because I have been reading “LikeWar: The Weaponization of Social Media”, by Singer and Brooking, which describes how different entities—be they countries, political parties, terrorist groups, etc.—with an agenda can, through the use of internet “armies”, bots and “sockpuppet” accounts, drive their posts viral on social media, which then can leap to the general public and shape opinion, language used the media, and stimulate real actions in the physical world.
The timing of this caravan, how it originated at this particular time, and that it seems tailor made to Trump’s and many republican’s anti-immigrant message, raised my eyebrows. It does sound like a good old conspiracy theory, because, if shown to be true that the social media posts that sparked the caravan were planted with intent to affect the US midterm elections, it would be a conspiracy. Can it be that this “gift” to the republicans just before the midterms is just that, a gift?
That these desperate people on road could be being so cynically used, gave me chills.
14
A cynical effort to harness the votes of racists and nativists, the Trump GOP demonization of the caravan reveals a lack of any achievements. All they have done is cut taxes for the rich and corporations, make our air and water dirtier, and wreck America’s international standing.
30
The migrants from Central America should go to Canada. The Canadian Government should accept them, it would boom their economy.
Of course, the Trump administration was responsible to stop the carvan in its first place, when its organizers were planning and organizing it. Instead the prsident Donald Trump was having fun in the campaign of midterm election. It's the highest degree of negligence on his part. He should never be a president of the USA.
10
@Haider Ali. Speaking as a Canadian, I fully agree! Trump! Rather than wasting effort to get Canada involved in pointless trade negotiations, use your presidency to pressure on the Canadian gov to do this completely worthwnile win, win, win for everybody.
2
@Haider Ali, according to the article, he was preoccupied with the fallout from the Saudi killing. Not sure if that's what you mean by having fun.
3
While I support immigrants rights and refugee rights, I am disgusted with this caravan.
We in this country have many of the social ills these people are fleeing. Technically they are also a result of politics.
There are communities in our inner cities that are riddled with racism, unemployment, gang violence, drug addiction, prostitution, etc. they get little or no police support, they lack decent affordable healthcare, they are politically disenfranchised, etc.
If those same people decided to march to the border of Canada and demand asylum or refugee status the world would be shaking their heads in absurdity.
I am saddened that there are people in any nation that suffers so but they don’t have a right to storm through borders to prove a point.
Their own nations’ leaders are so corrupt and so mismanaged. The Roman Catholic Church’s ideology regarding contraception has produced a world of nations with the poor having nothing but too many children, which in turn does nothing but maintain their poverty and give priests access to young children to abuse. The whole system is insane. People need to start thinking for themselves. Break free of religious and political ideology. Use your conscience and intellect to live your life and free yourselves.
79
Look to US foreign policy in the region to find blame. Don't scapegoat those who flee as a result of that foreign policy.
1
@Issy
Americans are, for the most part, law-abiding and expect others to be the same. That laws matter is an American core value.
11
@Issy
You know that approximately 33,000 refugees have crossed into Canada from the US since Trump was elected, right? No visas. Irregular border crossings. Most claiming refugee status.
The caravan will cost the Democrats the Senate, and maybe the House. Pelosi & Schumer are actively undermining their party by instructing their members to NOT talk about this crisis...this is politcal malfeasance. For voters it's come down to who do you trust more. Democrats who refuse to talk about it. Or Trump who won't stop talking about it. This caravan issue is front page news and can't be ignored. Trump got elected in part because of illegal immigration. Voters are going along with him because they have no where to go. Being anti Trump isn't an agenda which will persuade independent swing voters. The Democrats have allowed Trump to have a free pass on this issue. Their silence has encouraged the GOP to define them as pro sanctuary cities, open borders, & amnesty. Nature abhors a vacuum, politics won't tolerate it. When true leadership is missing, into the vacuum will rush someone to take control. Trump is filling the void by default because Democrats in another example of self sabotage are scared to address this issue. The caravan is an humanitarian crisis with possible economic, border security, & crime implications that we can't begin to contemplate. It's a visual reminder our immigration system isn't working. If you say Trump is using scare tactics to exploit the situation so be it. That's what politicians do. The caravan is real. The threat & fears voters are feeling are real. Democrats need to stop demagoguing this issue. They say it isn't a problem. It is.
98
@Bill Brown. Whatever the origins of this caravan—I suspect that it is just a little too convenient in its timing for Republicans—it strikes me that this is a perfect opportunity for Democrats to highlight the need for real immigration reform and their proposals to make it happen. The fact that they haven’t, that they seem to have gone silent on the issue is disappointing and could prove fatal to their bid to gain control of Congress.
19
@Brooklyncowgirl. It's about as likely that trump some how got this caravan going as democrats mailed suspicious packages to prominent trump critics to influence voters. Central America has 180 million people most of which have little to nothing to do. We are the population relief valve. We'd better decide to do more than political posturing.
1
@Bill Brown This caravan is still almost 1000 miles from our borders. Yes, it could be a humanitarian crisis, but not a crime crisis. Yes, we need better immigration laws, but not the cruelty the Trump administration has fomented. The demagogue is Trump, not the Democrats.
Must we reduce everything to be seen in terms of political “strategy”?
15
@M. Grove
Unfortunately, the media would rather talk about the political implications instead of the issue itself. This is how The Times avoids coverage of uncomfortable topics -- that is, topics where it might give republicans a political advantage. It sticks to the politics of it.
Notice how democrats and the media are refusing to cover the caravan other than to get into petty battles with the president over whether a gang member is among the caravan's members?
18
@M. Grove As close as we are to the midterms? Sure.
@M. Grove, I don't know about everything but what is the objection to recognising a political strategy where one is clearly at work? The article says the Honduran opposition went to Mexico's embassy and used caravans as a threat to try to get Mexico to support their agenda.
1
All of the nuances about the cause of this caravan are just chatter replacing sound political solutions for the corruption in Honduras and for the message of the past 25 years that the U.S. is open to anyone willing to make the effort to get in illegally. We didn't acquire 11 million illegal residents overnight. Meanwhile, we host the suffering masses from countries that receive billions in American aid annually used to personally enrich corrupt foreign politicians. Sloppy government has become the American norm as our infrastructure slowly crumbles and our quality of life deteriorates. Enough with the crocodile tears of Democrats. These migrants are mostly uneducated people following the song of the Siren, while the acceptable rule of law here is a rule of apathy.
50
@Dlud Actually, that number was updated a few weeks ago and published in the NYTimes. It's 22 million illegal immigrants and growing due to Congressional inaction to eliminate chain migration and anchor babies.
3
I hope President Trump has plans in place to deal with some 7,000 people who will arrive at the U.S. border, because simply letting them in will set a dangerous precedent. I hope he engages the Mexican government to help take applications from people so they can apply to live not just to the U.S. but Mexico, too, for those who are fleeing violence. Whether or not Mr. Fuentes intended for this group to get so big, this is what happened due to his petulant and irresponsible attitude to make a point to the Honduran government. Now it's no longer a political statement but a full blown crisis. Maybe he should pay for their food and water.
28
The root of the problem lies in Honduras. Our congress should be looking at what happens to the foreign aid we send. Does it alleviate any of the pain of the poor; does it make the country safer; or does it end up in the pockets of corrupt government officials? In stead of stopping it, insist the Honduran government consent to an independent monitor that will send the aid where it will help the greatest number of deserving Hondurans. Does our President really think that 21 year old soldiers at our border can stop mothers with infants in their arms as they wade across turbulent waters or drag themselves through the desert?
4
No. The problem lies in US foreign policy to not only Honduras but to all the nation's south of our border. Remember, Obama and H. Clinton supported the 2009 coup against a president who was trying to create a better Honduras. it's just that our multinational corporations don't like that if it means real democracy will hurt their profits. We prefer to back the ruling elite, which is always right wing.
9
@Munda Squire. El Salvador elected the leftist failures who we fought in the 80s and they have made a mess of things. The result, the 25% of el salvadorans have come here. The combination of incompetent corrupt governments on the left and right, our meddling, spectacular population growth, and climate change over the last 60 years have given us a look at the future of the world. Hordes of poor, uneducated, unskilled people with big families wanting to move to the western democracies. It will take far more than a political solution to turn this around but we'd better get going.
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@Munda Squire And Daniel Ortega is doing a fabulous job in Nicaragua, wouldn't you say? He and his family now own many of those same evil corporations, so we can be sure they won't care about profits and will punish the (always) rightwing ruling elite....wait! they are the ruling elite.
In 2017, about 375,000 people migrated to the US without proper approval or documentation and made it pass our borders undetected. That is approximately 7,200 per week. It is the lowest number since 1974. Violent crime and murder rates in the US have fallen significantly over the past 20 years. Unemployment nationally is at 3.7%, lowest in my lifetime. To recap, 7,000+ human beings come into the US every week through Trump's borders. Violent crime has decreased over the first two years of Trump's reign. Unemployment is at a record low. So why is this particular "caravan" an issue, when every other caravan over the past two years has been ok? I guess we will find out on November 5, when the caravan reaches the US and all these people vote for Democrats in Texas and Arizona and Georgia...
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@Scott Weil 'In 2017, about 375,000 people migrated to the US without proper approval or documentation and made it pass our borders undetected'
And then its a wonder how people could ever believe we have open borders. On top of almost 1 million active deportation orders currently being ignored. Imagine that.
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And what a good strategy it’s proven to be. True of false it didn’t matter ppl don’t know the truth any more they only know what they see but when you add narrative each side spins it to suit their truth. That’s when the confusion sets in. Trump, strong on immigration walls and what not, while dems weak they’ll let any one in. But is that the truth? No, but that’s not what ppl hear. They simply don’t know the truth and therefore vote based on lies. I guess when you think about it our whole system is one great big lie.
Over on Fox, they are covering the caravan phenomenon like a weather person would cover hurricanes.
"The big caravan is barreling closer to the US border and the damage is expected to be severe"
"There is a now a smaller caravan that is picking up steam not far behind the first big caravan"
"There is a group of people gathered in Honduras that has the potential to form a caravan, (or may just remain a birthday party)"
The only thing missing if for Fox to start giving them scary names, like you would a hurricane.
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Those who deliberately created or encouraged the buildup of the caravan for their own political purposes in their own countries have succeeded only in undermining even further the plight of refugees and migrants. In the USA we already have nearly a majority of citizens who are convinced that refugees are political pawns. This caravan convinces them that their opinion is a reality.
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Thank you for providing evidence that the caravan was the product of political and activist efforts.
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Since before the start of the caravan on October 13th to the present moment, the US government has had access to the facts on the ground in Honduras.
Despite those facts, presumably made available to the President, Trump has chosen to spread lies and stoke fears for what he calculates is his political advantage.
In his oath, Trump swore, " to faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States." I don't know how Trump's behavior comports with this oath.
Perhaps Judge Kavanaugh could help us define the meaning of this oath with particular attention to the word "faithfully."
Perhaps people in the Trump administration could explain why they remain silent when they witness Trump replacing the truth with falsehoods.
The "Big Lie" gets bigger and bigger by the day.
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Democrats seems to think that poor minorities moving into our country benefits them. After all, poor minorities usually vote democratic, right? Would the USA become more liberal when they all starts voting?
NO. Influx of the poor has the opposite effect. Poor people may make a locality, county or state more liberal, but overall the country will turn more conservative.
For example, look around. Countries like Japan and scandinavian countries have the least poor, and those countries provide the best social safety net and best environmental policies. USA has more poor, and likewise is more conservative. Look at countries like South Africa, Brazil, Mexico: Those countries have democrat's dream demographic - 90% of population looks like democrat voters. So these countries should be providing the best social safety nest, highest taxes on the rich, right?
Look at history of democrats in USA: They held the House of Representative from 1954 - 1994 - a whopping 40 years straight, and senate most of the time in the mid 20th century. They passed civil rights laws, medicaid, medicare, social security, built the interstates and send man to moon. That was when democrats where the party of the working class. Now democrats are the party of the poor illegal immigrants and republicans are becoming the party of the working class. So, how are democrats doing now?
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@jk And heavily Catholic migrants from Central America are also overwhelmingly anti-abortion. Wait until those chickens come home to roost.
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Under current law, these migrants have the legal right to present themselves at our border, request asylum, & make their case to a court.The question is, will they be inside or outside the border while they wait for the hearing (that they'll never show up for)? That's the rub. The question raised but not answered in this column are these economic migrants who are making bad faith claims for asylum for which they clearly do not qualify under the law. The law says asylum is available for people who are being persecuted on grounds of race, ethnicity, nationality, political views or membership in a social group. These migrants do not belong to any of those categories. Instead they are fleeing poverty & criminal gangs, which are not grounds for asylum. Is the plan to overwhelm US border authorities? It would seem so. Claims for asylum are supposed to be determined by immigration judges. They can't just be forced back over the border (although that would be a sensible legal reform.) The backlog is now huge. Maybe the expectation is that the government will release the migrants pending a hearing, at which point they can just disappear into the hinterland and find work as gardeners or maids for the liberal gentry. I've noticed that some people are demanding that the media go dark on this, because it benefits Trump. Democrats have to some degree enabled or ignored illegal immigration. As the election nears they want to make us forget that. It's not the job of the press to help them.
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@Bill Brown
No they haven't. It's the Republicans that encourage illegal immigration to lower wages and offer cheap labor. It is during Republican years that illegal immigration increases. Then they blame it on Democrats, as usual.
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@Bill Brown
Most likely they are counting on democrats and a complicit media to turn this into an indictment of Trump and rally for their special treatment. In they will come. Off they will go, never to be heard from again.
And then they'll figure out how to blame the influx on Trump and the GOP. Few Americans will be fooled.
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@ART - Do you really believe only Republican farmers and business owners encourage illegal workers to come to the U.S.? Allowing cheap, foreign, undocumented labor into our country is one of the only issues that receive bipartisan support.