Time yet for the roller coaster to go back up? There aren’t that many options other than off the tracks, in which case does anything else matter at that point? Hypnotized by the pendulum’s movement causes one to miss so much beyond.
What's really happening is that investors are getting scared. Scared about a government that seems determined to ignore every basic principle of budgeting, and build an unsustainable, unrepayable debt leading inevitably to default. What good are dollars, or high corporate earnings, if the government funding the currency goes bankrupt? Trump's latest promise of "a middle class tax cut of 10%" is scary, on top of the big giveaway Trump "Tax Reform" unfunded giveaway to the wealthy few and big corporations. Sure it props up profits for a little while, but when the party ends, the crash will be even worse because the Republican's idea of 'fiscal responsiblity' seems to be borrowing so much they can't even pay the interest without borrowing more... This is what happens when economic policy is made by people with a fundamental unwillingness to accept evidence and data as an input. Mnuchin's insistence that Trump's "Tax Reform" 'would pay for itself' is completely unfounded by the data and evidence of the last months - and while Trump and Mnuchin may still claim to believe it, investors know that it isn't true. Trump and Republicans aren't fooling anyone with their reckless tax cuts, over spending, and inept government budgeting plans. The markets are scared now, and they should be. This economic cycle is going to turn, eventually, and Trump is pushing it down sooner.
37
@Jim Brokaw I appreciate your persuasive focus on the bottom line, which is all that Wall St. ever cared about, as opposed to the emotions I indulged when I went all cash in Feb. 2017, missing a big run. Whether or not the party is ending, I would just add that the market has also priced in every regulation that Trump could cut or curb.
3
@Jim Brokaw
Don't worry be happy.The situation is being handling by the experienced bankruptcy expert.
Do I hear Trump taking credit for this big drop in the stock market? He certainly took credit for the big jumps.
23
It's the trump slump.
36
Fasten your seatbelts, folks. The Nikkei 225 is down more than 3% (and dropping), and I'm sorry to say we ain't seen nothing yet.
3
I guess this must be Obama's fault? Or the media's? Or Hillary's? or.......ad nauseam.
5
Where is Mr. Robot and his gang???
Hold "good" investment securities, if you're a long term investor. My friends were selling in the 2008 disaster but I held, not from intelligence but from from fear. Where would I go? AT this recent top, my S&P Mutual Funds tripled the 2008 low. Stay with it! Stop watching it every day.
1
The Stock Market giveth and the Stock Market taketh away. Nowhere is it written that the Dow must continuously rise.
Trump will blame the Fed. Most economists will say that the Fed's monetary policy is not the cause. But Trump is a very stable* genius and knows more about everything than anybody else. And everything Trump tells us is the Truth because our great leader Donald J. Trump never lies.
* stable genius definition: someone who is very smart about managing horse manure
4
The myopia and self-absorption of the markets never ceases to amaze, as if an already healthy economy juiced to the breaking point by the GOP's deficit-financed tax cuts was ever going to be anything more than a house of cards. And the willful disregard of trump's dangerous and delusional antics has truly been something to behold. This even as the Republican Party's irresponsible, "business-friendly" agenda takes the country ever closer to plutocracy and institutional decay. It may be time for "investors" to stop thinking about their yachts, trophy properties and bloated investment portfolios and wake up to some alarming realities. At least the ones who still give a damn about this republic.
3
No more winning. #PromisesKept.
3
Gosh, that's terrible.
I always get the funny feeling the NYTimes is rooting against America and hoping for negative news to splash all over their media.
I read this media, but really I can't stand the bias, hate filled NYTimes. At one time is was the gold standard of relevance, now it is the third publication I read in the morning, never the first.
4
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman
Tom, it's clear from this, and your previous comments that you support trump, and he can do little wrong in your eyes.
That being said, people here commenting have differing views; if you won't take the time to *honestly* consider both the article and the insightful comments by others, why are you here?
5
@Paul P.
Paul, I have always found it helpful to review both sides of an argument, debate, etc...
I try to accept other positions and points of view. They don't always sway me but I am aware of them.
Also as a child I always read the Times, old habits die hard.
This article and the following one about Trump's cellphone use are prime examples of the damage resulting from his incompetence and willful ignorance. Despite his assertions to the contrary, President "Very Stable Genius" knows absolutely nothing about economics or technology. In reality, which is absent from his world view, VSG actually stands for Very Stupid Galoot.
4
First, the dud bombs have nothing to do with equity markets.
Second, equity markets are cyclical. Tariffs are short term negotiating tools. Rising interest rates pull capital out of equity markets. Political events can cause short term reactions. Commodity prices go up and down.
If you don't know these things you shouldn't be reporting on equity markets.
And why don't you mention the total return since November 9, 2016 rather than Jan 1, 2018?
The Dow was around 18,800 on election day. It's 25,000 today. The S&P was around 2,100. It's currently 2,650. The NASDAQ was around 5,300. Today, after it has fallen into "correction territory," it is 7,270.
Third, "President Trump has repeatedly cited the strong performance of the stock market as evidence of the success of his administration’s business-friendly approach."
Rather than just cite the president's statements why doesn't the NY Times ever - as in ONCE - seek comment from someone actually in business?
How about just once you get a quote from a single CFO of a DJIA corporation?
An equity analyst friend recently met with the CFO of a Dow company. Here's what he said.
* The tax cuts were a complete game changer.
* The easing of regulations - not the big ones the NYT can boil down into a simple, anti-Trump slogan - but the little bitty ones too small to report on - have made the company measurably more productive.
Your bias has moved off the news and OpEd pages and now infests your business reporting.
2
@Johannes de Silentio
"Rather than just cite the president's statements why doesn't the NY Times ever - as in ONCE - seek comment from someone actually in business? ..."
The NYT does seek comments daily from "those in business" sir. In fact, there is an entire section of the paper, called "Business" for you to peruse.
5
As much as I would like the Blue Wave to be a tsunami and sweep all the Republicans in Congress out to sea something or someone sitting on my left shoulder says that it is not going to happen. Those who voted for the Grifter-in-Chief are of polar opposites - the 1:00% who have more money than God and have assured themselves even more or they have no money and are more than happy that they are sticking it to the middle class. I know there is disagreement as to the source of the famous quote, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" and the source is unimportant. It is enough to know that fascism has arrived lock, stock, barrel and two smoking guns. I don't think voting will change anything, if it did the Republicans would have outlawed it. Oh they have, and it is just a matter of semantics.
1
Markets pay little or no attention to elections. They certainly don't produce 10% falls. No the drivers here are the profit outlook once the tax cuts are digested because of increased costs; Fed rate rises; and the general uncertainty produced by the erratic trade policies of Trump and in particular the danger that trade conflict with China could go completely off the rails.
9
@John, but elections do pay attention to markets. The one silver lining I see is that this is happening a week and a half before November 6th and perhaps the trumpists who have linked their Trump affinity to the rising markets might loosen or lose that affinity as the markets tumble. Unfortunately the tumble will hurt the good guys too, but may spur them/us to vote Republicans out in record numbers.
1
Trump's reckless and ignorant "leadership" will inevitably lead the US and most likely the world into economic chaos. Anyone who thinks otherwise is as deluded as he is. If all he does is wreck the economy the US will have gotten of lightly from their bargain with the devil.
4
Here we go again, Republicans arcane and short sided views of trickle down has failed again. You would think after two great recessions, not to mention the saving and loan scandal, the public would get it. As usual, the Democrats will be left to clean up the Republicans mess and getting rocks thrown at them for doing so. The front cover of 'The New Yorker' magazine, this month, says it all.
3
Is this how the Trump economy is going to go? Just like the Trump foreign policy? Where he whips everything thing up with a lot of rhetoric and then no follow through?
Like Korea. We weren't going to war. But then Trump whipped up a frenzy that we were going to Fire and Fury mode like the world has never seen, then Trump and Kim have an hour long secret tryst and suddenly they are in love. Nothing changed. Nothing happened. Just a lot of noise.
Same with Trump's border wall.
Same with Trumpcare to replace Obamacare.
Same with Trump's trade wars.
Maybe it's time to rebalance any portfolio you have and move money out of stocks to FDIC protected instruments that are now paying 3.5% or higher without the risk of losing your principle.
If you don't you'll likely be a LOSER, unless you have an inside track on Trump's next blowup up, like listening in on his late night calls as the Russians and Chinese are doing. But then you'd be trading on inside information.
Former chairman of the Fed, Mr. Volker, said
it well: there is mess all around. This sums up
Trump Administration economic policy. He
himself, contrary to his base claim of his
business acumen, doesn't understand
economics and is sorrounded by equally
ignorant advisors like Peter Navarro and
the TV guy playing the role of chairman of
economic advisory council.
3
The stock market is the only store where people run screaming to the exits when they put the product on sale.
1
Can we call it a “Trump slump”?
1
Why can't Jared fix this? He's fixed everything else. Right?
1
How one longs for the simpler days of making money with collateralized debt obligations and credit-default swaps. Will Trump return us to that hayday of unregulated opportunity?
@Kirk
He's on his way, except now we're calling them collateralized loan obligations.
2
The Deficit is climbing like a ROCKET
OUCH
double OUCH
The "self-made man" whose business acumen consisted of getting millions in loans from his father and cheating on taxes. The only casino owner in a business widely regarded as a license to make money who went bankrupt not once but six times. The stable genius with a very large brain who thinks trade wars are easy to win. No wonder Wall Street is jittery.
3
Aggressive, divisive, and entirely unpredictable US politics have resulted in a trade war and unstable international relationships across the board. Mr. Trump's approach seems to support a US market retraction; a much smaller but higher efficiency system. Its looking good in the short term but it can't help but require ongoing corrections as international trade sours. And promises to continue to be highly volatile. In short, MAGA has its costs.
1
The stock market is now starting to reflect what has been true for some time. The so-called “surging economy, low interest rates and fast-growing corporate profits” are not all they are cracked up to be.
Profits have been rising but often due to cost cutting and reductions in labor. Witness how many corporations showing higher profits are missing on revenues or barely hitting their targets. Profits that are the result of reductions and efficiencies do not necessarily bode well for the economy or the stock market.
Then there are the realities of Main Street. Retail store closures. Softness in the real estate market. Just walk the streets of New York. Retail stores are for rent on almost every block. Some have been on the market for many months. It is a buyer’s, not a seller’s, market. Both commercial and residential.
There are pockets of real growth but it is limited. Why? Rising interest rates. Trade wars. Increasing political risks at home and abroad and extreme discontent with Washington. Midterms coming up. Uncertainties around the world. Destabilizing forces at work in the Middle East.
It all contributes to the erratic and volatile financial markets we are seeing. This is a good time to put more emphasis on safety: Treasuries, cash equivalents and cash reserves. We are no doubt in for a major correction that may last for a very long time. It is impossible to time the correction, but it is inevitable if history and recent events are any judge.
2
Although I am not an economist nor a Wall Street trader, I can definitely say that Trump's words and actions caused some problems in the stock market. Furthermore, his tax reduction plan late last year, current budget deficit, foreign policies including trade, and domestic agenda all combined will create a long term ill effect on our economy. It took a long time to build our nation to be top of the world. But it only took a bad election to ruin it all. Please participate the election and vote. Thanks.
2
PSA: the stock market is not the economy.
No it’s not. It is a leading indicator. When the market drops the economy follows.
3
"And as the market has slid lately, he has ratcheted up his criticism of the Federal Reserve"
Of course Trump needs a narrative to blame someone other than his incompetence, but the increase in interest rates was predictable and baked in to the market.
It is Trump's uninformed go-it-alone trade war, and the exploding Republican tax cut trillion dollar deficits (which will have dramatic effects on interest rates) that are driving worries about the future, worries shared by everyone paying attention, from investors to those reading of Republican plans (leaked by Mitch McConnell) to undermine Social Security and Medicare.
When Clinton left office, we were paying down the national debt. Bush tax cuts and invasions exploded it. Obama cut the deficit
The stock market was up 1.5 X under Obama and 2.5 x under Clinton. It was down 25% under Bush.
Much of the Obama stimulus was invested in increasing employment by building and repairing infrastructure,
The Trump/Republican stimulus went to a on credit sugar high of stock buybacks and, for example, as exemplified by the Republican Congressman who bought a yacht right after voting for the tax giveaway, frivolous luxuries for those who have more money than they know what to do with.
Republicans trash the economy, Democrats repair it.
Vote for Democrats November 8 before too much more damage is done.
3
What is actually underplayed in the media is the tariff impact. The first rounds of tariffs have just started to go live, while companies still work through inventories. The full effect of the current tariffs won't be felt until next year.
And the Trump administration is aware of the impact these are causing to American companies, which is why they were scheduled in waves, so the fallout would happen long after the election. The more damaging tariffs to American companies are purposely scheduled in the second wave. This will be a massive impact, that has only just begun.
Even more impressive is the collective cognitive dissonance where Republicans are forever touting economic benefits from lowering taxes while completely ignoring the offsetting tax increases in tariffs. And shocker, the corrupt-tax-act went straight to wealthy donors, financed through massive additional deficits, while middle class tax cuts are dead on arrival. Just one of those promises to string the gullible cult followers along.
2
The tariffs hurt the wealthy business owners the most. We need to do what we can to get Americans to start making and buying American products again. This is good for the average Joe.
Trump was gifted a surging economy from all the hard work put in by the Obama Administration; has ridden it`s coattails for 2 years; and now looks as if they are tanking. Just like everything else Trump has NOT done for those 2 years. He was given a blank check in 2016; and now that check is bouncing. Just like his other bankrupt business dealings. So for all his stinking boasting; 2018 has now been a treading water; barely; year where the stock market; Trump`s great accomplishment; is just another example of how the U.S. is in decline. Time for another useless rally; EH?!
6
And Trump stops twittering.
the stock market needs to go down by 40 percent from it's peak. it is heavily overvalued. it's collapse this month has been caused by a political meltdown. the political climate has seriously deteriorated because of trump and his fascist party. trump,a madman.has caused continuous and endless chaos.obama and the democrats steadied and left the economy in solid shape-unemployment was steadily going down, the fiscal deficit was going down, many millions felt more secure with affordable health care, the fight against climate change was heading in the right direction. relations with nato allies was strong and america was viewed as a strong world leader. obama's election gave us the hope that slavery,racism, misogyny, xenophobia, islamophobia and attacks on the press were in the past.inflation was low. then everything collapsed with putin's interference, trump's collusion and comey's partisanship in the last days before the 2016 election. white supremacism,white nationalism, xenophobia, mysogyny, attacks on the press,racism, and islamophobia took over. trump first tried to ban muslim travel. then he tried to overturn affordable care. he exited paris and assaulted the environment.he weakened the regulations that prevented another financial meltdown,and imposed tariffs and turned america protectionist. the gop passed a disastrous tax bill that increased the deficit by 2 trillion. i was buying shares till trump.i am selling since. trump and the gop give me no hope.america is isolated
6
Interesting how reality intrudes. The positive results we have enjoyed since the '08-'09 debacle were the result of the natural resilience of Western economies and the policies of progressive politicians. Now we start to see the results of the recent crop of retro politicians who make a virtue with their base of stupidity and ignorance and trash talk and denial of facts. Oh my, you mean it doesn't work to just payoff your oligarch supporters, who contribute nothing productive to society, with tax breaks that will explode the deficit? Who knew? The market knows.
5
The fall of the stock market is just one more thing that Trump will blame on Obama and the" Dems". Janet Yellin must be ecstatic since Trump fired her and now has his own "man" as head of the Fed. Not that the Fed, rather than Trump's trade policies, might in any way be responsible for this market 'correction'.
1
Please note that the tax-break market rally in January has now been completely erased, but the debt it has created is still there and growing at a record pace.
Few really benefit meaningfully from that tax break and they are at the very top. The richer you are the more you benefit. My widowed mother, a 64 year old Nurse’s Assistant who has labored her whole life in low paying jobs, gets about $3 a month in savings from the tax break. My boss, who is part of the jet set and is a Wharton legacy, gets 10s of millions. Having gone to war twice to pay for a grad degree myself and being married to another grad degree holder we will get about $2k this year from the tax break. I have not had a raise in years either so my pay only buys about 90% of what it bought when I started.
That said, if the revelations about the Trump inheritance tax dodging are any indication, then my boss and his like won’t be paying any of that debt either - that will be left to my mother, me, my spouse, and the rest of us poor unwashed masses that messed up by not being born rich.
This is what is really wrong with the economy.
9
This is The Trump Slump. He bought it on the way up, he owns it on the way down. Unfortunately oh, this will hurt a lot of good people as well, but if the end result is to remove as many of his cronies as possible on November 6th, there may be hope that this might be short and sharp instead of long and agonizing. I despair for my country.
7
Most of the presidents racist, pig headed, and self centered actions have no affect on the world market hut trade disputes, international conflicts and destabilizing policy changes do have a trickle down affect. Simple economics, increasing the cost of raw materials increases the cost of finished goods. When costs go up discretionary spending goes down.
To think we, the working class, affect the markets is laughable. It's the institutional investing firms that drive change. The five shares of Amazon I can afford to purchase isn't even a blip regardless of my buying or selling activity. When Investor Confidence is referenced it means the large investors, not us the majority of the population.
Fix the circus in Washington, stabilize labor and trade, and bring back the international partnership lost during the first 100 days of this freak show.
1
Americans get nothing with Trump as the President, the stock market has tanked, real wages have are still stagnated, benefits are declining, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are at risk, private health insurance rates have increased, public schools are still struggling, critical infrastructure improvements are stalled, hurricane relief efforts are a disaster, civil discourse has become polarized, Nero-Nazis, nationalist and hate groups have become emboldened and the international community laughs at Trump.
Vote on Nov. 6th - vote Democratic and help right this ship gone astray because of Trump.
7
We've seen this scenario before.
A Democratic President leaves a Republican President a healthy economy or at least with sane healing policies.
The Republican President uses that prosperity as an excuse to cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans and corporations and shut down regulations.
Everyone cheers and Republicans ignore exploding deficits.
Then something happens and the markets collapse. The Republicans ALWAYS blame the Democrats who don't fight back.
Then a Democrat is elected President and has to clean up the mess all over again.
Carter inherited a HORRIBLE economy. It got worse but he left it in Paul Volcker's capable hands. Volcker fixed DESPITE Reagan's tax cuts, union-busting, & shipping jobs overseas. The Deficit exploded. Bush I tried to continue that sham plan and...
"It's the economy, Stupid!" put Bill Clinton in the White House. For the next 32 quarters the economy grew. There was a slight bump with the Dot-Com Bubble,
but Bush II inherited a healthy economy & NO deficit!
Huge, irresponsible tax cuts, exploding deficits, and then...9/11. Trillions in off-budget military spending & the 2008 COLLAPSE! For the 1st time the economy shrank!
Obama inherited a disaster & despite GOP obstruction slowly fixed the economy again, leaving Trump the healthiest economy in years.
It's taken almost 2 years of the same destructive Reagan/Bush antics, tax cuts & cutting social welfare but now the chickens have finally come home to roost.
And we'll all pay for it.
6
"So much winning". Had enough yet?
5
Wait, I thought the stock market was booming under trump? Oops.
2
One of the greatest problems with this President is that he has never truly had “skin in the game” of life. It’s all been given to him so he can be cavalier about the economy, about hurting his political enemies, about dumping on the disenfranchised. These things are all abstractions to him since he hasn’t been forced to face the *consequences* of his behavior (yet).
My heart goes out to the good, hard-working Americans that are looking to retire in the next few years. They don’t deserve to have their economic fate tied to such a disgraceful, dishonest, and ignorant leader.
6
Forecast: storms of tweets blaming The Fed.
4
Stocks now 0.7% down on the year. So it must be time for...
Crash! Sell! Panic!
Trump supporters appear to be blissfully unaware of it, but world stock markets and their retirement accounts and house values are collapsing as a direct result of their choosing a crazy, incompetent President.
Long will this chaos continue.
4
The state of America, despondent over his actions and words that incited terrorist are the reason.
1
Trump's got enough money not to care.
And as a former president, he figures he can cash in because all of them have done it. Bill Clinton to the tune of over $250 million, over 60$ million so far for the Obamas.
So Trump's not concerned.
That should scare everyone to death.
1
Good. I hope all his 1-percenter cohorts get a good shellacking. However, Trump will find a way to blame it on Hillary and his mindless followers will believe him.
1
I'll bet you a (don't expect me to payoff) buck that Trump won't accept responsibility for this market (even after he has credited himself with all the gains Obama might be rightly credited with having more responsibility for). That's what phonies do! He's a liar! I'm not afraid to say it.
4
I hope all of the Liar in Chief's supporters especially the one percent like what it feels like to "win" with Trump's nonsensical economic policies.
1
What's left of our media needs to start running more pieces on why this market sell-off is at least somewhat tied to the ineptness, lack of credibility and uncertainty surrounding the current political czar.
Elections two weeks off.
4
Republicans are bad for the economy. They've been tanking it consistently since the 1980's. Hopefully - finally- the American people will make this connection and stop voting for them.
2
Next up, destroying 2017 gains.
Then surpass the Bush recession.
Lots of people today googling "How to short sell".
2
"investors [are] eager for a resolution to the trade dispute and nervous that it could escalate further"
A totally unnecessary trade war caused by one man and one man only. Everything #FakePresident touches dies.
And when the economy totally falls apart, when it sinks in that his criminality will be exposed to the degree that even his 39 percent can't ignore, he and Bolton and Pompeo will wag the dog. And the Pence crowd will get their end times.
1
Market needs to go down another 10-20%.
2
Would someone please tell Mr Trump that we really liked it when he was personally causing the markets to rise, and ask him to go back to whatever he was doing then?
4
I can't believe this is happening! I was always taught that trade wars and spiraling budget deficits were great for the economy! I am thinking about returning my Trump University Diploma.
14
@Jim - Thank you for the much needed giggle.
Just lost $50 billion today.
Around 10% of the value of Australian wealth invested in the stock market.
The global debt burden is concerning.
Accountancy issues are not a conversation subject and welcome at dinner time.
Mr Trump is probably not the worst deal maker Wall Street has seen yet.
However Mr Trump a self asserted and uncontradicted financial and modest genius is requested to respectfully assist an ally to cope with massive wealth losses of this scale .
Perhaps the President could make a statement to the nation concerning his plan to calm the economic jitters.
Fifty billion dollars is a lot of money.
Mr Trump is basically indecisive.
My opinion is that he frankly is at 72 lacks the vigor and rigor to make rational and critical decisions which will resonate for decades.
Check out conversation at any McDonalds near Wall Street.
“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”
3
He’s blaming it on the Fed. While Powell may be too aggressive, it’s time for interest rates to normalize. Banks have been bailed out for 10 years running.
3
@Ricardo de la O
The banks *needed* to be bailed out after the last disaster of the former Republican Presidency.
The current occupant of the White House is rather inept at learning from the past, and can only see that his ham-fisted comments keep the spotlight on *him*....as the Nation crumbles.
3
This is an economy that has been barreling ahead for ten years. So why should anyone be surprised at a correction? Even in the steepest drop of 2008, the market hasn't looked back. Earnings look good! But what about tomorrow? Trade war fears, tariffs, and hiking interest rates don't make good bed fellows. The good news for Trump, is a continued drop would be a signal to the country, that Trump economic policies could end. Democrats stealing power, is the real reason for the drop. In reality, a steep drop in the markets around the world would be a signal from the man behind the curtain that Trump is in trouble.
2
Wait, we just gave the business class the biggest payday ever in the form of lower taxes. As a percentage of all government revenues, they are paying the least they have ever paid. (And we individual taxpayers are paying an even bigger share of what it takes to run the country). And this is what we get in return? Hey, I know, maybe we should just let them stop paying taxes altogether and see if that works?
8
The only thing that will keep this bear relatively tamed is the impeachment of Donald Trump.
7
It would need to be impeachment and conviction. An impeachment by the House without a conviction in the Senate wouldn't do jack squat.
Trump brags about the strength of the economy and the stock market under his reign and the faithful roar their approval, celebrating the might feats of their hero. The stock market stumbles, of course not a peep out of Trump, and the base doesn't even realize this mishap because they don't read and they don't want to listen to anything negative about their lord and saviour. They will vote Republican because they were told "Democrats make mobs and Republicans make jobs" and that meme sounds so very clever out of the mouth of the great one. Pathetic!
16
@Elizabeth, the good people need to "message," too. I propose "The Trump Slump."
Where's trump's bloviating tweet about the market now?
He seems to (falsely) take credit for the strong business foundation forged by 8 years of leadership by President Obama as something that he, trump, created out thin air.
Now that the markets are down? Nary a tweet from the White House.
#SAD
10
What's wrong, Wall Street? Didn't Trump just promise another round of tax cuts? Why aren't you buying like crazy? Corporations are about to buy those stocks back from you for double what you paid for them. Wait a minute, you guys don't actually think the Republicans are going to lose, do you?
6
It's time that Democratic leadership speak up and hang the market implosion on Trump. He is so erratic and out of control that he's causing the stock market to plummet. Markets are emotional and Trump has everyone scared to death!
9
So far the markets have supported tyranny, the elimination of democracy, and the daily barrage of lies and cover ups Washington has become since the coup. It was all good for business. Trump is a disaster for America and the World but the markets still do not care. They should be 40% down from 2016 by now but they are still being held up by the greedy Potemkin village schemes.
5
When the next recession hits we will need a combination of three tools to combat it: 1) Fiscal stimulus; 2) The ability to lower interest rates; 3) Political courage to take the correct action. We are currently ill-equipped to do any of these things.
6
I doubt that Trump's base has any money in the market or even follows market news and doesn't understand that even non-investors have a stake. They'll continue to support him and his acolytes in Congress.
5
@R Thomas BERNER
Then We, The People *must* Vote Out every enabler / republican on November 6th.
2
I guess Trump has decided to erase all of the economic gains that occurred under Obama along with the rest of his legacy, and take the markets back to the Fall of 2008. Maybe then his followers will begin to understand that he's making it up as he goes along.
7
What a hodgepodge analysis and commentary!
The market reacts to the uncertainty of who is going to be steering this ship. Republicans or the new blue wave.
Fear and emotions are taking hold. Investors sell-out to preserve their gain until the midterm election is over. Then, we shall see.
1
There is a recession coming and Trumpov and the Republicans will try by any means available to hang it on the Democrats, as lying seems to be their modus operandi. For evidence, see all the GOP candidates pledging to protect the pre-existing conditions provisions of the ACA (Obamacare) they have tried to kill since markup.
Here's to Dow 15000- on Trump's watch.
8
I'm three years from retirement. I would say that I'm glad I have a pension but it is with Ford and they are looking pretty shaky too. I guess I can always work until I die just like the Republicans want.
12
I work for one of the largest plumbing and heating supply companies in the country. Our sales have not been doing great the past month or two. We saw an uptick of sales at the beginning of this whole tariff thing mainly because people started stock piling supplies so they bought more than usual. Now? We can't even guarantee price quotes for longer than 30 days because we are getting cost increases from our vendors everyday. This makes life challenging in the construction industry to say the least. Some of the Trump supporters I work with were enormously impressed with the paltry increase in their paychecks like it was proof Trump was a super genius. Yeah! Happy Meals for all! They can't seem to puzzle out that most of that increase will be wiped out in 2019 by our healthcare deductibles and premiums going up. They don't seem to care or understand that their children will be paying off that wonderful Trump tax cut as infrastructure crumbles around them.
19
@Blackcat66 - Yep. A major construction project in our area has been put on hold because of the increased cost of materials thanks to Trump's tariffs. There went all of the construction jobs, at least for another year.
2
Trump's economic policies are starting to work!
8
I am celebrating the recent decline of the stock market and hope the slide continues.
A prolonged 5000 point drop in the Dow is the best chance we have for getting rid of Trump.
13
Wall Street and the Stock market do not directly effect 85 percent of Americans with no skin in the game. But you can kind of look at it as the canary in the coal mine for that 85 percent. So Trump owned the market on the way up will the stable genius own it on the way down?
10
It is a faith based money redistribution system which cycles between irrational exuberance and unsupported fear. Yup, our retirement is invested in a system suffering from bi-polar disorder.
9
Indeed the bipolar conditions of humans maybe a reflection of the production cycles in society. Freud was right after all
@Awake
That's a very fine description. An explanation is the herd mentality in today's stock markets that are all running on similar algorithms and yesterday's news.
Corrections or crashes are none other than bringing prices to the level of real values. Claims on values are usually sold as derivatives expecting they will become real profits some day in the future. The global GDP is 1/5 of the value claims on it. Debt issued based on these claims can only stretch so long. Money is elastic but it also has a limit. In the end crashes or corrections only prove that the only source of value is living labor. Money does not breed money as the rampant mysticism in Wall Street wants society to believe.
6
The stock market has now done worse under Trump than in the first two years of both Obama terms—and this despite a corporate tax cut that was supposed to boost stock prices at the cost of massively inflating the deficit. Many people’s 401k losses in 2018 now vastly outweigh the extra $100 a month from the tax cut.
38
Legendary financier and CEO of legendary brokerage house Bear Stearns , Ace Greenberg, was asked about the 1987 stock market crash. His answer -- markets fluctuate. And, after he retired, Bear Stearns fluctuated -- out of existence, eaten by JP Morgan.
The value of financial instruments can fluctuate because it is not really real. This is shown by the fact that it can shrink a little or a lot, or sometimes balloon, and no one really knows why. It usually even happens unexpectedly. Real things dont do that. It takes something like a hurricane, an earthquake, or a huge fire to destroy a large area, and the destruction is not total or permanent. Whatever is left starts rebuilding and coming to life again. Real things are real, with the power to persevere and endure.
The value of financial instruments is not real in this way. It rests on our confidence, which makes it a confidence game. The irony of our existence is that the real things are run by the less real things and can be brought down by them. We let our own chimeras rule us, and we are so subservient that we do not feel their oppression as a problem.
Admittedly, we do not know how to dethrone our chimeras, and that is natural and acceptable. What is unnatural and unacceptable is that we are so far from seeking a way to master the chimeras that now master us that we are not even looking, and only feel their oppression when they misbehave (like a slave who only resents the master when beaten).
7
The 49 year low in the unemployment rate tells us that the Fed is behind the curve in raising the Fed funds rate, until and unless there is a really very substantial drop in the stock market prices.
At the moment the Fed calls stock prices "elevated",
a very bad omen for stock prices.
At the same time the Fed is running off its bloated balance sheet at the current rate of about $1 billion per week, that is significant tightening of monetary policy.
History tells us that
at the time when when the unemployment rate is at a cyclical low point is when stock prices are at their peak cyclical levels.
3
Investors are worried about inflation, rising interest rates, and trade uncertainty. They are apparently already smart enough to not believe the unemployment numbers, since those number miss all the people who have given up looking for work, are underemployed, or who still qualify for assistance while working full-time.
So all we are left with is that this is really a cynical rejection of Trumpism, since these issues are all about his policies (for what their worth, and as incoherent as they are). Trump has pushed for higher inflation, set up the Fed so it needs to push up interest rates,levied harebrained tariffs as our trade partners, and never missed a moment to crow about the unemployment numbers.
8
It was a stretch to give Trump credit for the stock market’s performance. However, there is a clear link between his inept handling of the economic recovery that was handed him and the slide of the stock market over the past several days. Trump supports cal him a successful businessman when, in fact, he is a fraud and a bankrupt failure who has demonstrated no understanding of how economies and markets work.
22
Markets go up, markets go down. That's how Wall St works. The rate hikes under Powell were long overdue; the Obama administration and the FED were addicted to ZIRP and ran the risk of not having ammo should another downturn occur. Trump is definitely not the right man to confront China on currency manipulation, trade deficits, intellectual property theft, and product dumping. But some actions is needed and tariffs definitely got their attention.
2
As long as Trump continues to fan the fire of fear of the brown migrant caravan that is funded by the Democrats and is hiding the nefarious middle easterners on our way to the US border, Trump's supporters (most of whom are not heavily in the market) will not care about this.
The bomb scares today provided a convenient distraction from the economy (wages? Health care?) and Trump's disaterous dealing with the Saudis. Totally, totally in over his head-beyond the point where he can simply lie his way out. If he thinks NY area real estate mobsters and crooks are tough to deal with, well, Donald, welcome to dealing with the House of Saud.
19
Interesting how this is just before the elections. Trump will say someone's manipulating the market for political advantage. Who knows, maybe he'd be right.
Will Trump now take credit for the slump on HIS watch?
14
A New York Fed report shows that US corporate taxes were already low by world standards even before the Trump tax cuts:
https://tinyurl.com/yctc95bd ("Tax Reform and U.S. Effective Profit Taxes: From Low to Lower", by Matthew Higgins, 22 Oct. 2018)
Trump claimed that the US corporate tax rate was the highest in the world but that ignored all the exemptions. The effective rate was much lower.
"We find that the U.S. marginal effective tax rate was already somewhat below rates in other large economies prior to enactment of the TCJA. As can be seen in the table, the estimated METR for the United States was just 10.8 percent versus an average of 13.8 percent for the remaining members of the global top twenty economies. With the enactment of the TCJA, the estimated METR for the United States is just 3.6 percent, the second lowest in this group. "
Indeed as share of corporate profits, the US corporate tax was under 20%, about average globally. After the Trump measures,it has fallen to a level below everybody else but Mexico.
3
I've watched these rises and crashes for 40 years now. I never stopped investing a little of each paycheck.
But I never figured out what drives the silliness. We see a 300 point rise and it's attributed to employment reports. The next day it drops 300 -- investors are "concerned" about tariffs.
While I loathe Trump & Co with all my being, I learned to tune out presidents, Wall Street, and all the other prognosticators a long time ago. I doubt anyone really knows what will happen tomorrow.
9
@Jules
Greed and manipulation drive Wall St. It's a rich mans shell game, with the rules written by the already rich, designed to perpetually give them an advantage while anyone who wants "in" is perpetually disadvantaged.
I trust that it is impossible for certain well-heeled supporters of this administration to bump the market back up with a huge and coordinated set of 'investments'?
2
@Karl Gauss - Yes, it is impossible. Average daily dollar volume is well over $1 trillion.
1
Republicans brag about being business-oriented. However, the markets get wise when the stock-market crashes occur: witness 1929-31, 1949, 1958, 1987, and 2008. Like petulant, self-entitled children, Repubs make the messes, and leave it for the Democrats to clean them up.
22
To quote a famous economist;
The stock market has predicted 9 of the last five recessions
17
No Republican administration has ever failed to crash the economy one way or another. They make it happen because they actually believe the irrational things they say to get elected. Every Republican economic measure can be understood as theft rather than regulation and you can only steal so much before the roof caves in. The question is always how far will the Republican crash fall? Will it just be a major correction that will stall the economy or will it keep falling and break the norms of financial mechanisms and expose the fraud at the heart of the system. The thing that stops these kinds of corrections are the regulations that are in place at the time and in a similar fashion as the Bush administration the Trump administration has delighted in removing all the regulations that it could find. Which means that the invisible infrastructure that could save the economy has probably been looted again.
It was inevitable from his first day that Trump would crash the market, it is the kind of destruction that he has trademarked during his long history of business failures. But this time we are in the same boat as the Trump creditors of the past, we are going to pay and he is going to skate with untold Billions in off shore accounts. I hope the next Democratic President is not so forgiving as Obama was because the only thing that a crook understands is rough justice. And if we don’t stop Trump here we will all be living through a Don Jr crash in about ten years.
40
Trump actually said the trade ware would cause some pain. It's appropriate that the pain is felt just before the election. But will the Republicans pay a price?
6
Oh no! The booming stock market that Trump created all by himself has taken a tumble. But, not to worry. He'll find someone else to blame it all on. Happy days are here again!
22
Investors are realizing the China and the U.S. are the same economy. With every tariff Trump just shoots himself in the foot.
19
The stock markets don't like uncertainty. Trump creates uncertainty to focus attention on himself. He can't change = future market unpredictability. Not good.
16
The economy is on a crash trajectory.
I posted last sept:
I mark January 1, 2018 as the official end of Obama's economy and the beginning of the next economic crash trajectory.
Few supporting reasons:
1) corporate taxes were reduced by one third
1.1) creates artificial step increase in corporate performance without an actual increase in performance. (if a company's tax decreased by 1 million, its profit increased by 1 million, with zero change in goods and services produced)
1.2) money was used for stock buybacks, not for investment or wage increases
1.3) huge government borrowing (from China?) to make up for lost tax revenues, injecting billions of borrowed money into the economy, running up a huge govt debt.
2) revoke Volcker rule, allows for propriety trading (gambling) with FDIC insured depositors savings by a few rich guys with access. This (combined with buybacks) is inflating another market bubble.
3) raised taxes (aka tariffs) on the middle class, which caused frontloading, another temporary bump in the economy.
4) two thirds of GDP is consumer spending, raised taxes (tariffs) places a huge drag on this.
The market is not the economy of course. The run up in the market (approx 8% ?) is not correlated with the economy (4.2%). The recent 4.2% number in the economy is dismal given factors enumerated above. Since it is not possible to time the market or the economy, it is impossible to know when the next crash will occur, but we are certainly on the trajectory.
22
@oldBassGuy
Yes, front loading with non-sustainable, non-operating, one-time gains will produce an inevitable back-end crash.
4
One normally saves in good times instead of running up a big deficit. Economics 101.
36
@Areader
Because doing the opposite will lead to bankruptcy due to a cash-flow crunch during the next downturn.
2
No need to fear. Trump has a proven record when it comes to bankruptcy.
3
The failures of this administration are incalculable — unless you count on a 401K and investments, in which case you already know: Trump was, is, and will be the country’s greatest fraud in history. Congratulations to those who catapulted him into office. The damage will scar this nation for generations to come.
50
Why even report this beyond reporting the closing numbers? The stocks went down; in a couple of days, the stocks will go up. Big deal. It's like a news bulletin that says, "Today the sun came up in the EAST and it went down in the WEST!"
Stop the presses.
2
@CABOT It's a little more serious than that. As far as the market goes, the 2018 has been a bust. In the so-called greatest economy in history, your 401K went nowhere.
20
@CABOT: Drops of 10% or more in stock market indices (like we have seen over the past three weeks) are not that common. We went several years without such a correction during the current bull market. No, stock prices will not recover in a couple of days! The indices may recover in a couple of months, or we may be witnessing the start of something more serious. Even if the indices recover relatively quickly, many individual stocks and sectors (e.g. housing) are in bear market territory and some will not recover their losses in this economic cycle, if at all.
13
@CABOT Exactly! A correction is happening. There are buying opportunities in the near term. The same scenario happened in January 2016. I invested then, and I'll invest now. I don't get all the Debbie Downers who root for a repeat of a 2008 collapse. Do you really want a repeat of those bad days of millions tossed out of work. I've read countless screeds of people who still moan about how bad the job market has been in the interim. Do we really want to repeat another decade of misery? All for political points? These are strange times we live in.
6
The Trump bump is over, no we have the Trump dump. I bet he and Vlad make bank.
18
Who cares about the stock market? Maybe that screaming guy on TV can fix it for you all. I'll bet if you write another dumb story about Tesla or Elon Musk you can send Tesla stock down and help out the short sellers and place some shorts bets yourself and recover all your losses. There is nothing real about business reporting. It seems that the flailing NYTs doesn't have a clue when it comes to investment in real things and simply works to manipulate.
Tesla makes a profit, and the title still intimates that that is a bad thing because it is rare, not that heavy investment in actual physical production facilities has anything to do with the reality of their business. Let's see, they were "burning through cash" until they were done building and then they "slashed spending" when the building was done. You guys just have no shame about misrepresenting the reality of a situation. Trump was right, fake news.
1
@chris The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence. The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. — Charles Bukowski
20
@Chris
Tesla makes a profit and "forget" to pay it's in tune of billion of dollar.
1
@Chris
Correction:
Tesla makes a profit and "forget" to pay it's supplies in tune of billion of dollar.
PS: sorry for the " miss typing".
I hope companies release positive earnings reports. Otherwise 2018 is a wash. If the trade war continues 2019 may also be a bleak year.
4
Demographics,Social Darwinism, Economic cycles all interact to produce boom and bust events that then influence subsequent human behavior with predictable and unpredictable consequences and results. Some call these Black Swan events, but they really happen because humans prefer to ignore historical events. The more things change the more they become the same. When the old timers die off the new timers engage in behavior that precipitates the economic collapses. It is the same behavior that caused the collapses 80-100 yers before. Look at Chinese history to see how it all transpires.
5
I have lost thousands in the past month. This is because of you, TRUMP. You’re a miserable failure at everything but most especially business!
33
@Dissatisfied Same here. For 8 years I had slow but steady gains in my IRAs. Then under Trump it's been up, then down, then up and down again, and then really down the last month.
14
Thanks trump for killing Obama’s economy...
28
I've pressed the comments, and something is missing. Where are all those people who said they'll support Trump as long as the market keeps going up?
186
The stock market is a casino for speculators, and never more so than in the era of Trump. Big corporate tax cuts and reckless deregulation provide a sugar rush to the market. But the market gains are illusory and don’t reflect true economic health. Recall the market boomed until the trouble in 2008 came to a head. We are repeating the same types of mistakes. This particular downturn may be temporary, but like a kid high on sugar, a crash is coming for this economy.
16
Ballooning deficits that will lead to higher interest rates crashing housing sales, industry expansion, and car sales.
And the trade war.
Congress blew an era of cheap interest to lock in infrastructure projects to give short term tax gains to billionaires.
Wait until we bumble into a war with no allies and explode energy prices.
Bush will bless Trump for making the Bush recession a fond memory.
27
The truth of the matter is, the correction today and last week, are perfectly normal and should be expected. The market is trying to find a bottom and there will likely be many more bumpy days and weeks to come. Statistically, the odds are pretty good that these losses will be erased six months from now.
In my opinion, these market gyrations are brought on by Wall Street’s realization that the combination of Trumps unnecessary corporate tax cuts (and their ensuing sugar high) is wearing off and there is no end in sight for the trade war.
But aren't trade wars supposed to be easy to win according to Trump? If he took full credit for the Trump Bump he needs to own the Trump Slump now.
25
@Mark If the trade war caused enough fear to tank the market now, think what the market's response will be when the trade war takes a significant bite out of economic growth.
7
As it stands today, the DJIA is down 9.1% from its peak in late January. All this can be blamed on Trump, his tariffs, his inept trade policy and causing world wide tensions. The tax cut, passed last year, has taken so much out of the treasury, that if a recession hits, there will be nothing but IOUs.
October has always been a rough month for Wall Street, especially in 1929, 1987 and 2008. Trump m si working on the Great Recession of 2019.
Won't happen? Well, rising mortgage rates are causing home sales to slow. Tariffs is hurting US manufacturing, because imported raw materials are more expensive. The Fed is putting breaks on the economy by tightening money supply. Wage growth is below the rate of inflation. The employment participation rate is the lowest in decades. Health care costs are eating into net income, reducing consumer purchasing of products. Most older workers have been forced to retire, because of age discrimination.
For an economy that is supposed to be very string; it really isn't, unless you received the large 1% tax cuts or investing in Wall Street.
A 10% drop is considered a correction. A 20% drop is one factor to declare a recession. Lack of confidence will be driving the markets downward. It does not help with companies like Caterpillar report bad quarter earnings, that is signaling economic issues (in their case tariffs).
Our Wharton graduate president has set the trajectory for at least another Great Recession; if not another Great Depression.
27
The longest bull market in the US history... had to end someday. I am no expert but economists have long advocated for correction. And the fundamentals seem to be strong - much stronger compared to China or Europe.
4
What just wrenches my heart and soul is that the Democratic Party leadership late last year did not see the imperative of stopping the biggest tax scam in US history—
Stopping it by threatening to shut down the government. It was that important. Instead they gave the foolish Trump a “win”, something he could brag about. And the current state of the stock market is no surprise.
9
Trump is predictably silent about the stock market beyond seeking to blame Jerome Powell, having managed to lay waste to the momentum of Obama’s burgeoning economy through his tariffs and self inflicted trade wars.
This in spite of the unprecedented, deficit-busting Republican tax cuts for corporations and plutocrats designed to stimulate the economy.
Meanwhile, farmers with their federal aid package posture with stoic trepidation in support of their untethered President as soybean and pork futures plummet into the abyss.
Only a moron of monumental proportions could have created so much havoc with such celerity.
28
Let’s talk about the stock market, Mr. Trump, as the election nears and the Republican colossal tax scam and your foolish trade wars settle in.
20
If you stand on your head, things look pretty good.
12
Looks like we are headed for a second civil war? Why can’t we all just get along?
Maybe because the Commander in Chief demonizes those who don’t agree with his dictates.
We are all in crazytown now!
14
The temporary gains were the result of the tax cut. Now the deficit is exploding. Republicans say cut SS and Medicare, their plan all along. "Starve the beast" was always been their plan.
Vote the Democratic ticket!!
34
I'm getting so tired of all this winning. thanks POTUS Trump!
7
President Trump will never admit the stock market fall has anything to do with what he is doing. He never claims credit for anything bad. Everything bad is someone else's fault.
Trump was mentioning several times a day that he was the cause of the rising market.
Now---silence.
15
See ... this PROVES Trump is correct.
If the Fed wasn't raising the interest rate, all would be fine. For he claim to fame.
But if he needs to, he can always add another half trillion to the annual deficit ....
3
So after reading the article and watching CNBC Squak Box since 2007 i can say this with confidence. That if you are not in the market for the long run, get out. I have been listing to the experts that say buy on the little dips. Baloney they are saying this as they themselves sell, sell , sell !!!
5
I wish the news would put way more focus on this.
8
This correction may end with the elections (regardless of the outcome) and the November to May period is seasonally strong. But the next leg up (if there is one) may be the final charge of this bull market. Record corporate profits are insufficient to assuage investor fears of rising interest rates, trade wars and international concerns (Brexit, Italy, China) and investors know thst prrofit increases are bound to moderate next year. Falling house sales in the face of increasing interest rates to slow a booming economy sounds eerily familiar to 2006 and we know what happened two years later! We might not be facing a 2008 style crisis, but we will enter the next recession with record high deficits, relatively low interest rates and ever higher levels of political dysfunction.
11
Trump will blame the fed for market losses and take credit for market gains. Rinse and repeat.
22
The artificially propped up economy by the $1.5 trillion giveaway to the rich has run its course. The debt is skyrocketing - who knew! - and now a fake 10% tax cut to the real producers in the nation to try to con a vote from the middle class this November.
30
This market decline now qualifies as a full-blown correction. It's the Trump effect of a trade war with China, tax cuts that provided little stimulus other than through stock buybacks, a "nationalist" neo-isolationist trade policy, and a looming crippling national debt. With financial deregulation, rising interest rates along with instability in Europe due Brexit and the shaky Italian economy, we may be lucky not have a repeat of 2008.
31
An American military commander in Europe was quoted today predicting that the US will be engaged in a war with China within the next fifteen years. Will that cause a boost in the stock market, or another Great Depression, I wonder?
5
Isn't this what happened on the way to the Great Recession?
7
So many articles state the unemployment rate has not been this low in 50 years. Sometimes it is added that salaries are low so being employed doesn't guarantee you are solvent.
And sometimes a caveat is added - the percentage of employed often does not include those who have given up looking for work.
Yesterday paper - "His Body was Behind the Wheel For a Week Before it was Discovered..."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/nyregion/man-found-dead-in-car-new-yo...
Man commits suicide in his car, sits there for a week, people pass by and don't see him.
Read the rest of the article - this man was 61 years old and had lost his job in 2007 and then found other jobs that didn't work out and he became unemployed. He applied for 481 jobs and wasn't hired - likely because he was approaching 60 years. He ran out of hope, money, life.
The economy isn't so great and the employment rate rings hollow, when people who lost their jobs in the recession 10 years ago haven't been able to find a good enough job and may now not be unemployable and reduced to poverty and despair.
Alongside the employment statistics I would like to see how many people are unemployed, used up their unemployment benefits, can't find work, have given up -- that is the important statistic to define our economy.
The rest of these numbers are distraction.
413
@joyce The Unemployment Rate is only one measurement. The real measurement is The Underemployed Rate. I've been working two to three jobs, 60+ hours a week consistently for the last 8 years and still only make about 50% of what I made pre-recession.
16
@joyce:
Excellent points!
My husband, with a Master's in Comp. Sci and years working in major companies as a Systems Analyst, lost his job in 2008. He went to every possible interview opportunity. He felt that his age (60's) and graying hair were the MAIN factors that kept him from being hired. How do you prove that?
5
The media has neither the wisdom or the guts to investigate and publicize this issue which is the core issue of our time. The truth is that actual unemployment (as measured in the 1930’s) is nearly as bad as then. If you count minimum wage jobs, part time jobs, and under the table jobs as unemployment (they aren’t living wage jobs) then unemployment reached a peak of 20 million in 2008 and has stayed relatively steady since then. We live in a hollowed our economy that no one talks about but the pain is real and it is what contributed to the lashing out that elected Trump. But all he did was make the problem worse as most voters could easily predict. After Trump there will be a reckoning because our democracy can not continue this way. Something has to change for better or worse and that means we are nearing another of those fateful tipping points. We all need to stay rational and be brave because ideology does not count at a time like this. Or we can be stupid and take what the fates give to the undeserving. We will win or lose as a society and finally learn what America really is.
4
This and the violence
today were a matter of time....
The economy has been
manipulated for the very
wealthy, we knew from
very recent past history
that “trickle-down” does
not work. We know from
past history that incendiary
words are kindling for hate.
If the mid-terms do not
result in Democratic Party
wins, our troubles will increase.
We need balance...Republican
rule in the House, Senate and
Executive Branches of government
is a formula for continued economic
decline because of the economic interests
that favor tax cuts and deregulation
for the very rich.
As for the potential for violence, we
aren’t even talking about gun control
or civility. I don’t think any Republican
leader called out President Trump for
hateful language at his rallies that
stir up hate. Americans, please vote.
Young Americans, look up from your
phones and vote because your
future is at stake.
42
For the new guys, this is called a correction, will be followed by a huge surge.
some one is selling off stock cheap, sending traders panicking across the board. then that some one will buy stock at basement price and it will rebound like never before.
Only some one super hugely rich could do this, loose a billion now, gain a few on the rebound.
I wonder which super ultra rich billionaire could be doing this today, someone one with a motive, some one out for blood. some one so huge he can manipulate the market, someone with a bone to pick.
I wonder who could that be.
2
Nice attempt at conspiracy. Sorry to inform you, the corporate tax cut is already spent, and now the great trade wars are looming and corporations see nothing but downside. These are the facts.
17
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
4
@AutumnLeaf - You could buy at the bottom yourself with a few thousand dollars and an online account. The market is open to all, so feel free to place your bets.
2
On Election Day, the S&P was at 2139. Now it’s at 2656. That’s an increase of 24.2%, which is a sizable gain over two years. But people should understand that the performance of the market is unpredictable and that a strong market and a strong economy are two different things. Moreover, a solid increase in the market does not mean that the President is doing a good job overseeing the economy.
4
@michjas On election day & 2.5 months later, the President was still Obama.
14
@Steve
The market rose sharply the day Trump was elected. That wasn’t because of Obama. It was because the market likes Republicans.
1
@michjas Under Obama, the S&P 500 was on a nearly straight-line upward trajectory for his entire 2 terms. Except for the first 2 months when the market was still cratering from Bush's recession, the market index more than TRIPLED (March 9 2009 it closed at 667 and he left it on 20 Jan 2017 at 2271) Nice try at giving Trump credit. In reality, Obama left positive momentum for Trump. Too bad Trump broke it.
2
So, first off, being near my retirement age AND heavily invested, I hurt more than most, I guess.
However, one observation: Trump crowed all over the place about the increase in the stock market, an index that he often confused with "the economy" and "wealth" in the U.S.
It's a sucker's bet that he is not going to own the decrease.
This is the worst kind of CEO one could have: quick to grab all the credit he can; quick to let go off the bad moments.
Yet, Republicans, who often bragged about their "business-like attitude" are nowhere to be heard.
By whatever metric we use, this has been a real bad time.
311
@MSA If you're near retirement you should only have anywhere from 25% - 50% of your funds invested in the stock market ... I'm going to try to say this nicely: don't blame your financial situation (whatever it may be) on someone else, we are all accountable for our own actions.
4
Why didn't people remember that the GOP always crashes the economy? Reagan in the late eighties and Bush in 2008. I refuse to vote Republican even tho' my decades-long loyalty to the Dems has been repaid with bullying and high taxes. Please find me a party. In the meantime, I have to vote against the GOP.
1
Instead of worrying about recent losses, think about gains made over the past 10 years.
High triple-digit gains/high triple digit losses have become the norm since Trump took over.
This is an unhealthy pattern that mimics the mercurial actions of an unstaple presidency.
Under Obama, we had a nice slow steady rise. We had a guiding hand that had the knowledge and wisdom to get the country through recovery.
Not anymore.
We are on a runaway roller coaster fueld by uncertainty, deregulation, and a leader that doesn't have a clue.
35
I just want to be clear that to the extent that anyone believes that Trump's fitness to lead this country or the need to hold him accountable for his near-constant misconduct and abuses of presidential power have anything to do with stock market gains/losses or any other economic metric, they are mistaken.
Let the DOW hit a new record-high tomorrow and let unemployment drop to -14% with every Starbucks coffee cup saying "MERRY CHRISTMAS" with a nativity scene set up in next to the register... what difference would it make to the fact that we are being led by a demonstrably racist, self-proclaimed "nationalist" who has openly sought to make the DOJ a tool for his own greater glory? Who is actively memorializing bigotry into U.S. domestic policy? A leader using the presidential platform to champion people like Roy Moore and routinely attacks survivors of sexual assaults (which he himself has bragged about committing)? One who's principal grievance with Saudi Arabia's targeted killing of a journalist and U.S.-resident seems to be the sloppiness of the murder and subsequent cover story?
The markets have precisely no bearing on addressing any of these and a host of other fundamental issues surrounding the Trump administration. A president does not deserve to be impeached or disparaged for market conditions, nor do market conditions insulate a president from scrutiny and accountability for their own words and deeds.
196
@Matt If you take credit for the stock market going up, then you get the blame when it goes down regardless of whether you believe policy has an effect on the market. (hint: it does)
4
@Matt Should the economic effect of an unneeded tax cut throwing money at companies already loaded with cash and raising the deficit by an additional $1.5 trillion (not to mention tariff disruptions with allies and foes alike) and their impact on the stock market not be attributed to Trump?
3
Trump has that bankruptcy touch. And you’d think the one-percenters would have been smarter, bur greed is always their downfall.
304
Its never THEIR downfall.........Its always ours. Always.
9
@Daniel
Buy on the dip. If you increase your 401k contribution now, you are getting a relative bargain...more shares per dollar.
@Daniel
You are close to being on target Daniel, except it's not the 'one percenters', those for the most part are hard working doctors, engineers, and small business people who are a major part of the backbone of this society. The bulls eye is actually much smaller, it's the 0.01 percenters, the ten thousand or so families out of a total of a hundred million or so families in the US who have accumulated or inherited over $100,000,000 in wealth. These American oligarchs now control about 1/8 of the wealth in the country. (See the study entitled Wealth Inequality in the United States since 1913 by Emmanuel Saez (UC Berkeley) Gabriel Zucman (LSE) October 2014) Rest assured much of this group, not all, but much of this group lives in its own bubble world where actual work is largely seen as something for the little people, who not only should do all the work, but should also pay all the taxes. You had a similar situation in the time of Louis XIV, and that did not turn out well.
4
Donald Trump has proven time and again that given any business, and enough time, he can sink it. Who in the world loses money in the casino business, even having to forfeit the casinos?
In the Times business section yesterday, it was noted that Caterpillar shares were off 6%, one of the reasons being the increasing price of steel, a direct result of Trump's trade tariffs, and the uncertainty this creates.
Trump is all pomp and no circumstance, completely clueless, yet claims over and over that he is 'a stable genius'.
405
@Tim B One modest correction: Trump's casinos, owned by the only publicly traded company he ever headed, were buried in debt because Trump took out loans that couldn't be repaid by the "take" at the casinos. This is a pattern in Trump's business life: after a failure, make wild promises about the next enterprise and promise you can payback massive sums. Promise the impossible and see if it works out.
When he bought the Plaza Hotel, he took out a full page ad in the NY Times saying he knew he paid too much for it. The hotel was eventually unloaded in a "pre-packaged" bankruptcy in which the new owner gets to buy a property free and clear from debt, because all the debt has been wiped away in the bankruptcy, sometimes ruining the lives and businesses of those who held the notes or bonds. This, too, is part of a repeated pattern for Trump.
8
Hey Republicans - still plan on running on the economy? How about health care? The deficit? I know! A terrorist convoy from Honduras!
48
Luckily, we have a stable financial genius as our president to guide us... What? He never said he filed bankruptcy SIX times when he was running for president!
39
Are we winning yet?
20
At least we've got the deficit reined in.
Oh. Wait.
35
Trump will continue to bloviate about how his wonderfulness has driven the greatest economy, perhaps ever, in the history of our nation blah blah blah.
He will blame this setback on the failed policies of Obama and Hillary...
And the Fed...
And China...
And...fill in your favorite excuse.
Economic surges on the credit card are bogus. Every household knows that.
14
Great, one more thing that Trump can blame on the Democrats and Obama going into the midterms. *sarcasm*
11
13 Days to go!!
Remember this and all of the other blatant actions of ineptitude of this current administration.
Remember them and be motivated to not only go and vote but to bring at least two other people and ask them to vote!!
VOTE on Tuesday November 6,2018!!!!
22
Probably Obama’s fault.
3
Having an idiot in the White House explains everything.
27
“People” are getting low wage jobs, just to pay for their I phones... So happy it’s crashing; it’s time to reset this fake economy with this criminal gop organisation.
14
Is this still Obama's fault?
17
“It was kind of a market that was looking for a reason to have some money come out of it,” said Tony Dwyer, chief market strategist with the brokerage firm Canaccord Genuity in New York. “And it found it.”
Ha! That actually may be a cogent take on market psychology...
5
Methinks Mr. Trump's economic chickens are all coming home to roost - squarely on top of his shoulders. Maybe he can manage another "middle class tax cut" (for the wealthy) and his followers will forgive him again!
8
Turns out "juice the economy, win the mid-terms' may not work.
12
Trump Slump. Historically worldwide, newly elected populists are able to goose their economies for two years. Then the loose spending, tax cuts, and deficits catch up with the economy. Inflation takes off, driving retraction and misery. This was utterly predictable - from Bump to Slump. And so the historic two-year cycle repeats itself, again.
41
I was just going to write the exact same thing. Well said. If you didn’t see this coming, I have great snake oil to sell you.
14
Trump in January of this year estimating the future direction of the Dow: "I guess our new number is 30,000."
I guess DT doesn't know anything about physics, or economics for that matter.
10
@JHM Why would he need to know anything? Check from Daddy has been in the mail all his life, year in, year out.
13
Why does he want another tax break for "the middle class?" So he can throw few more pennies at the crowd while he's sneaking in something to get more $$ pumped into the market by the fat cats. Figures he can do it once more near the '20 election. ..... Don't buy it, people.
11
Sure, he figures he can tantalize and get middle class attention and VOTES ... putting it out there before midterms -- Hah!
It'll never happen!
Besides, it's the middle class who'll pay for it when these guys cut Medicare and every other benefit hard working people hope to see someday.
4
"You will get sooo tired of winning!!!
Donald J Trump
14
@Bob I'm tired of winning!
10
The bull is having the expected effect on the china shop! Come on educated, white, suburban husbands. Now you have an excuse to join your wife and vote democratic. You can help remove the incompetent goons presently running our country into the ground and give your kids a chance at the comfortable and secure life you've always wanted for them.
35
So when the bubble bursts, debt is at record highs and the United States is just another trump bankruptcy case, will the cult declare, "the economy was never really that important?"
28
How long do you think that it will take Trump to say:
“The economy is collapsing because the market is afraid the Democrats will take over Congress and we need to vote Republican”
24
@Truth Is True - I am looking for that tonight.
6
The Obama economy is now over. Been a great ride. Now we are in Republican territory. Don’t worry republicans, after the crash, we will save you. Again. And we will let you continue to pretend you are the sophisticated financially responsible party. We know how important that is to your self esteem and political future.
65
So all the money that trump pumped into the market via corporate tax cuts that bought stock buy backs has been completely blown away. The republicans self destructive strategy to use the ballooning deficit to cut entitlements while enriching their wealthy donors has backfired. The midterms will now likely be a rout for the republicans. And trump is in a panic to stem his worst fears trying to buy votes with illusory tax cuts while his worst allies poison the waters with bombs and racist robocalls. It's a classic comedic arc in the making. Let's hope that it ends that way.
16
It’s going to get a lot worse until we sort out the nationalist threat. I’d say cash out now rather than later and much lower. Everything is being destabilized.
11
I think we're seeing the beginning of a recession —
8
This is a typical bear pattern. Strategies like shorting the VIX and buying the S&P 500 on the dips have worked for a long time. When interest rates go up slightly, the cost of leverage goes up 50%, and a lot of the straddle and spread trading becomes less profitable. Then the algos kick in, and take the market down further.
Now that the momentum is reversed, profitable trades will involve being long the VIX and shorting the index ETFs. This will but further pressure on prices, and 200-day moving averages will be breached.
Eventually, naive retail investors will find out what is going on, and decide to dump their index funds. Then the market will really go down!
10
Largest single day point increase of Dow Jones:
Trump March 26 2018 up 2.8%
Obama March 23 2009 up 6.8%
Obama for the win!
Largest single day point drop of Dow Jones:
Trump owns 5 of the top 10 with the top 3 worst days by Trump
Obama has none in the top 10
Obama for the win!
Overall performance of Dow Jones since inauguration:
Trump up 23%
Obama up 39%
Obama for the win!
So much winning! Come on, Fox News, why aren't you sharing this wonderful news with your viewers?
122
Why does the news keep repeating that the economy is booming under Trump?
Inflation is ramping up, wage growth isn't keeping up with inflation (and this is happening simultaneously when corporations are experiencing a 40% drop in the corporate tax rate), the national debt as well as the annual budget deficits are increasing, the tariff effect is beginning to creep in (Ford is claiming a $1B profit hit already and will lay off 24,000), Sears is dead, Subway is closing 500 stores this year, brick & mortar retail is still closing stores, auto sales numbers are down for the year, interest rates are rising for those that need to borrow, unemployment is only about a percent less than what is was when Obama left office, a barrel of oil is up about 40% in the last 12 months, many market indexes are not having a banner year (most US based indexes are negative YTD), millions more have no health insurance... the only booming is a negative one.
Why is the DNC not showing election ads about this economy AND the GOP promise to cut "entitlements" to fix the hole left by the tax cuts overwhelmingly for corporations & the 1% tax cuts?
32
@Steve Sears has been doing horribly for at least 15 years and Subway's food is inedible. And yes, the DNC is only worried about "migrant caravans" from central America for some reason. They absolutely should be running ads about the Republican plan to end preexisting conditions coverage and cuts to social security and medicare as well as medicaid for the working poor.
2
I'm sure the market will turn when we start winning the trade war, or when the tax cut trickles down so that consumers can spend more, and then they can pay taxes to balance the budget and maybe start paying off the debt.
3
@Denis There are no winners in a trade war.
7
So....I guess you still believe in voodoo economics a la trickle down.
3
@Denis the tax cut will not be trickling down. The wealthy are keeping it. That is why Tiny is proposing another tax cut. As for taxes balancing the budget and maybe paying off the debt, keep dreaming. MAGA Indeed!
2
Contrary to the feelings of most commenters here, this stock stumble is more likely a consequence of stretched valuations and reversion to the mean than it is to Trump and the Republicans.
3
According to tRump the gains were all due to his stable genius. So he owns the losses.
7
@Steven. "So he owns the loses." That's an interesting view of the market situation and what follows from a politician's statements about it, but no more helpful than a market comment by, say, Maxine Waters or Nancy Pelosi. When it comes to the stock market and why it rises and falls, I wouldn't pay much attention to politicians, left or right.
@Mrs. Proudie
I would accept this sentiment if Trump was keeping his dumb mouth shut when stock markets improve.
"The sell-off arrived despite an economy that looks otherwise strong..."
The economy looks strong because macroeconomic indicators paper-over the recovery that never happened. The household economy is weak and will probably tank again within the next 18-months.
2 trillion in tax cuts and all we got was this lousy recession.
31
The sugar high from the corporate tax cut has run its course.
28
Notice how trump isn't asking us how we like our 401Ks. I would love to tell him what I think - of many things! If the Dems don't take control soon I fear for our country.
47
Hope it continues to crater until after the mid-terms. I'm quite willing to lose money if the election results lead to the Democrats taking back at least the House, if not the Senate.
Can't even put a price on how much that would mean. Restoring some semblance of sanity to the country and being able to investigate the crimes of the most corrupt and dangerous administration in our history.
The market will bounce back as the basic economy is strong. They know that Trump is a disaster in the long run. They've gotten about all they can hope for with the tax cut so will be just as eager as most of us to see him under congressional control, if not gone.
76
Brilliant! You want millions of people of all walks to lose their hard earned money purely for ill informed partisan politics. I am not a fan of Trump but will vote with my wallet. If every one else does, the country will be just fine
7
Yes, where would we be without all the “patriots” who vote with their wallet. Was it Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin who said, “I don’t care about English tyranny as long as my wallet is full”?
11
“Give me Liberty or give me a full wallet!” Just doesn’t have the right ring to it, does it?
4
Stagnant wages and tremendous income disparity. There are not enough people with enough disposable income to keep the economy humming. Add foreign affairs maladroitness and the lack of any apparent economic philosophy (other than accruing money to Trump Inc.) and you have the makings of an impending economic problem of significant proportions. The people getting out now will be seen as the smart (and lucky) ones.
39
There goes another Trump bragging point falling out of the tree.
Interesting that some analysts highlight fears of all-out trade wars, especially with china, as a major contributor to the market slump. Whoops! Oh, never mind. Just another bragging point taking the plunge.
30
But trade wars are easy to win.
5
I will accept Trump's disavowal of any responsibility for the recent tanking of the stock market...after he makes it abundantly clear that he was not and is not the reason for its 10-year climb.
36
I read recently that 15% of Americans own 85% of the stocks. So most of us never made much money, if any, from the stock boom. Lots of companies used their tax cut to buy back their own stock instead of hiring workers or giving raises.
All I really know about the economy is that I buy groceries once a week and the same stuff I buy all the time was higher this week than it was last week. A 24 pack of the top selling soda went from 7.68 to 8.18. Even my cat's food was three cents a can higher. When groceries and pet food go up from one week to the next, it hits everybody, the poor and middleclass the hardest.
487
@Linda
Same with canned dog food prices. They've been consistently 30-40 cents higher per can for the last 5 months or so. I could be wrong but assumed it had to do with the aluminum tariffs.
37
@Linda
And that's really hard on us old folks who have to live on cat food when they cut social security to make up the shortfall after those huge tax cuts!
27
Thanks Trump. Trade wars. Childish civil discourse. Fear mongering. Tired of “winning.”
7
Not sure why they continue to report the unemployment rate as the lowest ever. They don’t count the people who gave up looking for a job who couldn’t find one. They really should be reporting the ‘employment rate’. 20 years ago 74% of working age people were employed in the USA. Now it is only 67%. So actually a much lesser portion of the population is employed today.
Well I do know why they report it that way. Politically preferred as it conceals the real data.
59
@DaveTheDuke
thank you for the statistic, could you cite it please.
The 10% tax cut oughta fix this!
32
@John Duffy Right you are John. Next week!
2
@Frank Next week us Infrastructure Week, so that’ll have to wait.
Once again we are seing the effect of the irresponsible policies of President Obama, the Democrats, the Federal Reserve Banks or System which cause the poor President Trump and the Republican to fix the worst economic disaster ever seen in the history of the USA and that the tax cuts will fix. Do you believe that? It was alternative facts.
44
Hey spooked investors! Save the next great recession for when the Dems come back into power. Jeeze! Haven't you guys learned anything?
7
@Leigh
It'll be OK. The president suggested they print some more money.
5
Just another manifestation of the Republican strategy: think about it.
Gain enough political power to heat up the economy through deficit spending and tax cuts (= transferring public monies to private profiteers), then get out of public service/retire to the cushy private sector revolving door jobs, like so many Republican officeholders are doing this election cycle.
Democrats assume office and are forced to clean up the huge mess with unpopular measures - raising taxes, interest rates and cutting spending.
Then they get to blame Democrats as if the unpaid bills and the painful remedies are all their fault in the first place. Reagan did this, (then Clinton balanced the budget - horrors!) Bush did this, (Obama had to prevent a global financial depression,) and now someone will have to clean up after the latest cohort of Republican profiteers scatter like rats off a sinking ship until the next time they can assume power - blaming Democrats for the painful surgery and medicine needed to repair the economy and social fabric - again.
The short memories and unwillingness of the American populace to face facts, accept science, and understand the basic social contract includes shared effort and sacrifice, will be our undoing.
97
Not to worry, the global warming epidemic will interrupt during the next political cycle or two, breaking the chain once and for all! It’ll be over much sooner, and more painfully, than we think. The Republicans will blame global warning on the Dems, as they board their lifeboats, thinking they are saving themselves.
2
When will the masses figure out that too much wealth went to too few people?
232
@Chris
I would say "too much wealth GOES to and HAS gone to too few people (and don't forget, corporations ARE people too) since at least 1980.
VOTE...support unions...give working people a fracking break!
Trump was quick to take credit for the sensation rise which was just too good to last. The cause of the slump is complex and neither event should be given as sole credit to the man in the Oval Office. However, it won’t take him long to blame anyone else for the loss other than himself, say the Fed Chair, the Dems or even the Chinese for their failure to negotiate a trade agreement.
53
Even die-hard Republicans know that there is no causal connection between Trump's policies and the current good economy. It has simply a matter of sustaining earlier historic momentum. But Trump's actual behaviors are starting to undercut the momentum, and everybody sees it.
166
After 10 years Wall St. welfare payments from its central bank sugar daddy and a 300% gain in stock prices the Fed still has interest rates at emergency levels. Growth rates at 3% and inflation at 2.9% and growing, real rates should be at 4.5 to 5%. If this Wall St. welfare momma can't even handle what is still negative interest rates god help us when they have to go much higher to fend off inflation.
Central banks around the world simply can't print 16 trillion in new monetary supply and another 9 trillion in back-channel bailouts and not think it won't cause massive inflation. We all knew when the Fed started spraying its cash fire hose everywhere it saw a spark that this would all end badly. We are all doomed.
14
Doesn’t anyone pay attention to economic experience on the ground.? There’s a lot of jobs but they pay squat and many young people are seriously struggling. The enormous profits and reserves of our corporate behemoths benefit a precious few spectacularly greedy people who’ve being handed another pile of capital by our shameless GOP congress via an obscene and ill-timed tax cut. This will get a lot worse before there’s a healing by way of a transfer of wealth in the opposite direction. Think socialism...
135
@the doctor, you recognize the difference between the stock market and the real economy. Too bad so many people don't.
27
It will get a lot worse. Socialism would be the best of the alternatives left to us.
2
As soon as I read the headline, I thought “Trump”, the breeder of fear and uncertainty.
From the comments, a majority understand Trump to be the driver.
44
Perhaps investors are losing confidence in a country where the president's supporters send bombs to opposition leaders.
160
@Richard Lachmann, this has more to do (a) with the effect of the tariff war on big companies' third quarter earnings reports, (b) the down economy in China and (c) the fact bonds look more appealing than stocks due to higher interest rates. The tariff war is now coming home to roost.
30
Trump's illogical tariff war assigns winners and losers based on his donors' interests and the industries employing people in his next rally location.
Now, with the market in free fall - and a spiking deficit that's 21% higher than a year ago - we are all losers until we vote Democratic to take away Trump's power in November, and vote him out of office in 2020 before he bankrupts our country like he bankrupted his own businesses.
164
It will take the next Democratic administration eight years to fix this and they will never make the middle class whole for the Trillions in losses to come. Again. Maybe the Democrats should stop trying to fix broken Republican economies and just let them go to where they are ultimately headed, a depression. Until the red states starve because of their gullible votes they will never take the time to think about about the repercussions of voting against the interest of workers and for the rich. A starving Trump supporter will eventually be a Democrat. It took three years of depression for the yokels to wise up last time and elect FDR. Let’s hope they come around a little faster this time.
5
Well, it's been 2 years already. Are we Great yet? I'll have to ask Dr. Dow.
50
Here we start to feel the Trump economy.
Done with all the hard work of Obama.
88
Wow! Would be so great if we could blame this market crash on Trump! Then, maybe, he won’t be re-elected! Yay!
8
Unemployment very low? Sure for those that have sought work. But it's pretty high for those who were disenfranchised by automation and outsourcing. And they may be working for half the pay - doing two or three jobs. And still can't afford health insurance.
Earnings reported strong? Sure for the companies that are actually earning. Look at all the inflated stock prices of companies that people have jumped into that are burning through millions and billions - not earning a penny but promising the next high tech wonder. For example: I love Netflix. But on an earnings basis it's worthless.
And then there is the increasing awareness that our Dear Leader has no idea what he is doing. He is so completely out of his depth of understanding that it would be laughable if it were not so dangerous.
Stupid trade wars that hurt American businesses and relationships around the world?
Attacking the Fed when they are attempting to keep the economy under control?
Threatening to resume an arms race with Russia?
The markets really prefer boring, predictable leaders - could they be nervous like the rest of us?
101
@Bob Bruce Anderson "...And so castles made of sand...fall in the sea...eventually..."
3
Our great economy is just a series of bubbles distorting the market and making the statistics look good. But the economy is bad by any measure other than the rigged statistics we are all used to. But there are economists that have been tracking reality all along and the picture isn’t pretty.
1
Shameful rise in mortgage rates at a time when hurricane victims could use some relief. greed at it's worst from the Fed in cahoots with the banking industry In my opinion.
7
@Rodrian Roadeye, the Fed is not authorized to consider hurricanes as factors in their decision-making. If they did, they'd be breaching their mandate.
8
@jonathan Damage done from the hurricanes should be taken as a drag on the economy and inflation. Which the Fed seems not to have considered.
Thank you Donald Trump, trade wars and tariffs are making America great again.
55
C'mon, folks. The political instability of a once unified nation is on trial, not the economy.
13
The days of: Just put it on his desk and he'll sign it, or take it off his desk before he sees it, are coming to an end. The market is pricing in the democrats flipping the house of representatives. Play time, show and tell, and the presidents florabundent signature show is over.
4
Can't wait to hear Trump tell us how the socialists are coming to deliberately ruin our economy. Or it's Hillary or Obama's fault what's happening to the stock market. Trump always wants credit, well this and whats ahead is all on him.
27
Tired of all that winning?
Keep voting Republican!
20
Trump has repeatedly taken the credit for the stock market gains (even if the trends started before he even took office.) Now, I wonder if Trump will take some blame for the stock market losses, given the likely impact of his latest, egregious fear mongering? Surely, it's scaring not only the decent majority of U.S. citizens. Oh, yeah, I should definitely wake up to the reality of Mr. No Excuses, No Regrets.
13
@akhenaten2
But I suggest not holding your breath while waiting for him to take the blame.
8
Could be seasonal? Could be the uncertainty with the midterms? Could be the uncertainty with the tariffs? Some of it could be the effect of the tax cuts? Some of this could be laid at the feet the president but markets fall, markets hate uncertainty, I want to blame 45 for all of this but sadly, this is not ALL his fault. I could however come up with a list that is! VOTE
14
Stay calm and stay the course. Corrections happen, especially during politically turbulent times. The fundamentals of the U.S. economy are extremely strong. Common sense and sustained economic growth will win out when the dust settles. Sell now, as many did in 2008, and you will reap the whirlwind.
14
"The fundamentals of the US. economy are extremely strong." Where have we heard that before? 2008 When a Republican president was last in power and Republicans blew it up due to the lack of regulation, no oversight, tax giveaways to the rich etc. etc.
Clinton left office with a surplus and the Republicans subsequently gave us a huge deficit. Obama turns the economy around after the economy tanked again under Bush, and the effects of the huge Republican tax cut and Trump's trade war will soon blow it up again. The eternal cycle, and Americans are hoodwinked into believing that Republicans are best for the economy. Go figure.
110
Thanks mr Greenspan
3
Ah yes, the benefit of tax cuts, trade policies, treaty abrogation, and isolationism, brought to us by The Great Leader, The Trump.
74
If anyone is waiting for Trump to take responsibility, don't hold your breath. Trump has already been preparing Fed chairman Powell as a scapegoat.
Unfortunately for all, his campaign promise that he will run this country like he ran his businesses might actually come true.
121
Now is the time to buy. I am thankful for such "crashes". I can afford to buy more.
7
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus - Will you be thankful for another Republican recession?
6
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Are you suggesting that this is a crash? It is my belief that the market has been goosed beyond reason for far to long now. I would sense these recent drops as maybe closing in on a correction if things were normal and we got another 10% drop or so; but we ain't normal.
2
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus, that assumes you have cash lying around, and it wasn't already invested in the growing market. Because if you had cash, you missed out on that growth.
Which is always the conundrum.
6
I've been trying to figure out Trump's blathering about $100 billion at stake if we dare tell the Saudis their behavior is unacceptable. Most responsible sources suggest a much, much smaller number.
But now I see it! $100 billion in shareholder wealth just evaporated.
Waiting to hear how finds a way to lie about that, given that, beneath the froth, financial markets are stubbornly fact bound.
35
Stock market is crashing, debt is rising, Ford is laying off, the Trump Tariffs are coming and the world no longer respects the USA! This sure doesn't feel Great Again.
503
@Diego
You have to get on board one of those Fantasy Cruise Rallies that Trump conducts to get the heroin high that his followers have.
8
This is what happens when you try resist globalism. Trade-wars between the biggest exporter and biggest customer aren't good for anyone. Now all eyes turn towards the earnings releases, the Italian eurozone fiasco, Brexit - honestly, JP Morgans prediction of recession by 2021 is starting to look optimistic.
2
So much for the Trump boom. Having gotten their tax cuts the plutocrats are crashing the market to buy up the depleted assets. Typical Republican playbook.
192
@Ignatz Farquad, except the companies used the tax cuts to buy back their stock, and now the stock prices have taken a dump. Not a wise move, in retrospect.
4
This comment is an eye opener. Thanks.
2
The beginning of the Trump recession:
- interest rates increasing
- deficit exploding during a boom -- unheard of...
- housing market cooling
- prices on metals increasing, affecting construction, autos
- inflation outpacing modest wage growth
- anti-blue state tax cut -- reduces SALT deductions
- international tension and calamity
- president who spreads hate and fear
- threats to health care
- constant uncertainty
- energy prices increasing
When politicians tell you nothing can go wrong, it is time to worry.
360
@gmansc -- when politicians insist the fundamentals are sound, it's time to hit the silk and land as gently as you manage. I've heard several discussions about how sound the fundamentals are. Checking my parachute....
1
You can start worrying even more when they tell you "I alone can do it."
2
When people are nervous about being nervous, buy.
13
Yep it’s a good idea to grab the falling knife. Nothing could go wrong with that plan.
3
Tired of all the winning yet? This is Trump’s colossal failure yet for sure, he won’t own it,
252
@Dean Roberts I thought this was Obama's boom? I guess you and he will now disown it.
Most of the steady climb over Obama’s term is associated with Obama for obvious reasons. This crash has a great deal to do with the uncertainty of Trump’s policies. Pretty simple, actually.
20
@MCH
MCH
Obama has been gone for two years!
2 years of Trump, GOP Congress and their
Huge tax cuts for the wealthy!
WakeUp!
1
Quite possibly a reaction to the rash of domestic terrorist incidents today......all the bombs targeting political and media figures. Certainly does not inspire confidence.
30
S&P must not have gotten the Nationalist message...
145
Jim L,
Or maybe they did.
Everyone knows the Nazi's always lose.
5
It took Don less then two years to do what Bush Jr. did in 7.
473
Tired of winning yet?
82
Smart move of Democrats to crash the stock market ahead of the election. All the state pension plans and Wall Street Dems are orchestrating this.
16
@Rick
I am requesting that we all leave poor Rick alone for now. He's not doing well, especially with following even the smallest strings of logic.
We expect a break in Rick's case shortly after November 7.
63
@Rick how is it possible for the Democrats to do this? How did you arrive at this that Wall Street are mostly Democrats? https://www.quora.com/Does-Wall-Street-vote-Republican-or-Democrat
It doesn't appear that it's all one or the other but appears to tip toward the Republicans...
24
@Rick: what a ridiculous, unsubstantiated statement. Divisive. Ugly.
12
Well, he can no longer brag about his booming market.
Yesterday I read about Paul Volker who was 100% pessimistic about where this country is heading both economically and politically.
Markets rise and fall on emotion far more than analysis. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand a looming mountain of debt and rising interest rates to tame inflation aren't the best recipe for a vibrant housing market.
In fact, housing starts are way down. Nothing expresses consumer sentiment better than the housing market, because how can consumers make such a big investment when the economy is turning south?
219
@ChristineMcM
if Volcker is worried, I'm frightened. My understanding is that the correction is the result of fears of a global slowdown....driven in large part by....wait for it....US tariffs imposed on imported materials.
19
@ChristineMcM
I was able to find some future footage of Volker and Powell. I cannot wait for the press release that will save us from their self inflicted deflationary spiral.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ULxjgF58dM&t=1m19s
1
If this continues, Trump will blame the Fed--and nothing about that will be good.
35
@John K well, he has to blame someone right? It will never be related to his actions when it declines, but he's always ready to accept responsibility for increases.
27
This downturn is clearly a Trump effect, unlike the market upturn which was still riding the stewardship of President Obama. Trump and his supporters own this evolving mess.
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Are the ballooning deficits wrought by the Trump/Ryan tax scam partly responsible?
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@Solar Farmer Most of Trump's supporters can't even SPELL 401K or IRA.
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GOP and Trump economy in action.
* Tax cut for rich.
* Middle class left in cold.
* Job growth almost exactly as they have for past 6 years.
* No wage increases.
* New jobs low pay part time.
If GOP was really concerned about "trickle down" scam they would have included a minimum wage hike as part of the tax plan to assure those who got the big breaks were required to put that back into our economy.
As usual never any obligation asked or expected in exchange for corporate welfare.
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An increasingly unpresidential leader, policies that fly against the common good, whoppers lies thrown about on non-existent legislation, statements endorsing violence and destabilization... All this, two weeks before an election that red state officials are still trying to rig Fter being caught. Why would the markets remain calm?
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'Things Trump Did While You Weren’t Looking' https://wp.me/p2KJ3H-2ZW
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Waiting for the President to own this on the way down like he did on the way up.
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@Johnny Yeah you'll have a very long wait.
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@Johnny
You're going to be waiting a long time with this President.
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His followers won't even hear about the decline, and my experience has been that Trumpies aren't good at finding and reading economic data on their own...
What is it about October and market crashes?
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@Chris Well, October comes before the November elections. Maybe listening 24/7 to the politicians lying to us shakes confidence in past promises they have made about economic growth and the prosperity in store for us. Abraham Lincoln observed, "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
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@Chris - It is irrational that the market runs on quarterly and yearly cycles, but it does. When the fourth quarter comes around, fund managers dump their losers and try to dress up their portfolios for the end-of-year reporting.
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@Chris
And also remember, the market is NOT the economy.
But even then, this is the first gasp of a canary....
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Trump took credit for the market rise: Who will he blame for the losses?
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Powell. Trump already set himself up for it.
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The caravan, of course!
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Democrats and the caravan, of course. By his own admission, he will never take responsibility for anything bad.
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