In Khashoggi Disappearance, Turkey’s Slow Drip of Leaks Puts Pressure on Saudis

The Saudi Crown Prince told the Bloomberg News Agency that he was looking for Mr. Khashoggi. Reminds me of the time when O.J. Simpson told us he was looking for the killer of Nicole and Ron Goldman. The front is unbelievable. One other point - who made the recordings? Why didn't the hit squad remove any such evidence?

Saudis murdered Khashoggi in a brutal and public way to send a message to anyone who would oppose them around the World. They knew it would become public; did not recognize how fierce the backlash would be. Trump is pooh poohing and will do nothing; Trump is too entangled with Saudi Arabia. GOP will do nothing because they are Trump lemmings. Vote out Republicans for any chance of saving Democracy in America. Trump championed a body slam of a journalist and defended Russian hacking today.Trump pushed a life long presidency last night. The end of Democracy in America is very close. Ray Sipe

This is because it was Turkey, not Saudi Arabia, who killed Jamal Khashoggi. Turkish intelligence probably snatched him soon after he left the Saudi consulate and it is Turkey's intelligence service who has been the primary source of information the press has relied on for information. As to the recording and video of Khashoggi's murder, any intelligence service can fabricate a video or audio of a murder. Heck, with the right soundbytes or footage you can even do it on YouTube. Turkey wants to revive the Ottoman Empire and getting Saudi Arabia out of the way makes it easier to do so. It is no coincidence that Turkey heavily supported ISIS since the group was poised to attack the Saudi Kingdom. Turkey's President, Erdogan, also knows how to manipulate the foreign media to his advantage and that is exactly what the American press is allowing to happen since it is clear outlets like, The New York Times, want to use this as their latest outrage to try to injure Trump. If they succeed, Prince Mohammed Salman is also wounded in his kingdom and his modernization of Saudi Arabia may come to a screeching halt. If that happens the American press helped make it so.

I don't know why anyone would think that the Turkish "leaks" will pressure Trump to do anything about this killing of a journalist when Trump praises a Montana congressman's attack on a journalist and tells people that any guy that can do a body slam, he’s my kind of — he’s my guy," This just a day after the liar in Chief finally admits that Khashoggi is dead. Does anyone need a road map to get where this would-be destroyer of the 1st Amendment is coming from? Even more disturbing are the voters who elect those who engage in assault and cheer Trump on! Democratic mobs indeed!

OK, So Pressure on. 1) US will not buy Saudi Oil - instead it will buy Iran's oil and the EU, India and China will obey sanctions and buy Saudi Oil. Good balance 2) US will not sell arms to Saudis - Russia will be happy to step in. 3) US will not take Saudi money. India and others need American investments. Maybe future Saudi companies will list on the Bombay Exchange. Lets see how long before American businessmen and politicians get on their knees before the Saudis.

“and Turkey has been embroiled in an ugly diplomatic wrangle with the United States” isn’t the opposite? Isn’t the United States of America attempting to control Turkey? With the excuse of defending the American spy proselytizing for a Christian “organization” Big attempt to destroy Turkey and its economy? Trump goes publicly with his message of “making America great again” although secretly and “undercover” the world domination keeps on going.

Just reported the saudis have arrested 18 people for the murder but not the one who ordered it. No surprise here, like trump, the prince considers everyone but himself disposable.

I find it surprising how the media has been willing to accept the Turkish authorities' largely unsupported statements at face value, without question, despite Erdogan's harsh treatment of journalists within Turkey. Take the "description" of the recording supposedly uploaded by Khashoggi's iWatch. The actual recording has been heard by no one outside of Turkey's government. It hasn't been heard by Pompeo, the Saudis, etc. The Times even published an article suggesting that it was technologically practically impossible for such a recording to exist, since Khashoggi's watch could only upload to his phone via bluetooth technology. He was inside the consulate while his phone was in possession of his fiancee, outside, too far away for bluetooth to work. The Times published the one small article on that point and no one has since questioned it. Now Turkish authorities are leading a wild goose chase through the woods. Turkey's behavior looks highly suspect. I have no idea what happened. But I think we should be very skeptical of accepting Turkish statements without solid evidence.

Interesting in the Trump era that despite Turkey’s geopolitical differences with Saudi Arabia, they are utilizing the investigative tools of greatest help if only the United States would acknowledge it. Trump’s disgusting handling of this brutal murder ought to be an outpouring by Americans opposed to his leadership. To date, he has condoned murder of a journalist and then went to Montana to attack a journalist who was body slammed by the guy Trump was there to support. Trump is an enabler of murder by this Crown Prince because of arms sales and Saudi patronage of his hotels. If we can’t reject Trump’s position on this matter, what kind of a country are we?

The Saudis now say they need a month to fully implement the cover-up that they plan to give to trump. Well if the Saudis think this will save them they are mistaken , because when Democrat retake the house than they will control the purse string and The Saudis may see real sanctions that will shock them .

Trump, Erdogan and MBS are all playing a high stakes chess game on the world stage.Each has his wish list and is willing to cheat, lie, accuse innocents to untangle this international crime.None of these three men will emerge without further question about their autocratic behavior.The blood of this murder will be on their hands as they try to explain, excuse or minimize this execution of a journalist who was well known by all three countries.None of these leaders supports a free press including Mr.Trump.

Mr. Khashoggi sadly is yet another casualty of those who strive to shed light on political corruption by those who seek to maintain their power and fortune at all costs - be it Saudi Arabia, Russia, China..... Given the devolving loss of civility by our leaders, with the praising of a reporter being body-slammed, brazen lies by politicians - be it about ethnicity claims or scientific facts to name just a few - I find myself for the first time ever wondering when will the United States of America join this despicable state of affairs. I pray our Constitution is solid and rooted in our legacy to weather the upcoming tsunamis of loss of common decency and belief in a goal that is bigger than anyone of us.

I don’t understand how a “fistfight” leads to a 15-man team taking off a man’s fingers with a bone saw and then his head. And “a fistfight” with whom? Saudi consulate personnel? Someone off the street? Like a street person using the restroom in the consulate? From every available profile, the late Jamal Khashoggi was not an intemperate man, one given over to violent behavior. He was soon to be married; what would have been the percentage of engaging in a violent, potentially lethal confrontation? I could very well see him fighting to defend himself from an attack but a “fistfight” against 15 men surrounding him? Puh-leese. The Royal House of Saud sent people to Turkey to intercept Khashoggi. It was, from this crime sleuth’s point of view, entrapment; who wouldn’t defend himself under the circumstances? So now the Saudis claim that the WaPo columnist was killed because he resisted. What did the chief forensic specialist say: “put on headphones for this kind of work?” After a “fistfight?” Tell that lie to someone who’ll believe it. Like Donald Trump. He excels at being duped.

It seems as if everything intersects in this story – Mideast rivalries, Trump and his family connections to MBS and the Israeli right, and a Saudi dictator who is verging on powermad. This could play out many ways, but unless someone turns down the temperature soon it won’t end well. I suppose that last sentence could apply equally to our climate.

“He’s a great guy. Tough cookie.” Oh sorry, that was the President praising a Republic congressman's physical assault on a journalist in America last night. Completely different case.

Jamal Khashoggi was a friend of president Erdogan who has come to believe both the Saudis and Americans have been involved in this heinous crime (sic!). As such, he will not leave Mr. Khashoggi's murder investigation in their hands, lest they use it to cover their own tracks. While in self-exile, Mr. Khashouggi was in touch with individuals who were seized by the MBS security team, beaten and forced to sign away part of their wealth. Some of them lived in Europe, allowing Mr. Khashoggi communicate with them readily. His communications were linked to a book, or an article, he was working on, focused on what went on in the Ritz Hotel where detainees were held, tortured, and in one case killed. It is now public that the US intelligence was monitoring Mr. Kashoggi's communications and briefed the WH on them. Mr. Kushner attended those briefings and, while in Riyadh, in an attempt to endear himself, divulged them to MBS. The fact that Mr. Kashoggi could make details of Ritz Hotel killing public made him a danger to SA and MBS; hence, the MBS decision to eliminate him. Based on their relation with Mr. Kushner, the Saudis believed that the US will be supporting them unconditionally. MBS initially told the US he will deny everything and the US should pressure Erdogan to shut up; else, Mr. Kushner's role may become public. That is why Mr. Kushner has been advising caution to Mr. Trump, warning him of severe consequences, if the US took actions against the Saudis.

Co-conspirators MBS and Trump both need to resign.

I think it is complex for the Turks. In killing Khashoggi on Turkish soil it shows Saudi disrespect, especially that Khashoggi was a friend and fellow-traveler in Erdogan's belief system, which is a more moderate Islam and includes the Muslim Brotherhood. Erdogan genuinely liked him I believe. Yes, they need money but they do not think they are going to get it from Saudi Arabia. They are now concerned about the new expansionism of MBS and fear his mercurial disposition. If they can expose the rot in Saudi Arabia, then Turkey will all of it's problems, comes up smelling like a rose.

Can someone please help me, because I'm having a hard time understanding this. How do you accidentally interrogate someone to death?

I appreciate the coverage.I think that more needs to be covered about his death.Cutting off all his fingers,while he was alive?Dismembering him while he was alive.I'm hoping after the first finger was cut,he passed out.What was the music,the forensic doc was listening too?Now I know how my parents felt about Hitler.

I buy 100% the story that MBS had Khashoggi assassinated, but why the bizarre scenario? Wouldn't it have been easier to hire a hitman and have the journalist shot?

MBS has shown only a glimpse of Saudi revenge just on a journalist’s constructive criticism ! Americans only remember WTC &9/11 with so much passion but have totally forgotten who were the suicidal pilots of those planes.They were not Kings or would be kings ! Imagine the damage if they had the money and resources of MBS . Wake up America ! It is time to ask Donald Tump to dump Jared Kushner and Stephen Miller as quiet advisers who are drafters of every thing rogue hatched in the WH before a bigger disaster is upon us.

The former head of MI6 in the UK said today on the BBC that his connections with British and Turkish intelligence had provided strong evidence that MBS had clearly authorised Kassoggi’s murder but also that he not have acted unless he had first got approval from the US. Astonishing view from such an eminent source. So, it’s not just the “anti-American” Turkish journalists who are putting forward this point of view. No wonder Trump calls the public outcry “unfortunate” and no wonder Kushner looks like the loser he is.... This has legs. And it is in the long tradition of US approval for secret rendition and killing.

I take this article as a back-message to Mr. Erdogan. It looks to me like the NYT is telling him "We are not fools. We are fully aware of the dynamics underneath the leaks. So, please, don't assume that you've taken our coverage for granted or that you've added more puppets to your media collection. You have not".

For the sake of transparency and respect for an honest journalist who lost his life, the right thing for Turkey to do is release the tapes to the public. Fat chance, public. Instead, Trump, Erdogan and M.B.S. are exploiting every conniving method to make themselves look good, keep and win friends and influence. All three share a love for power, especially the absolute kind. If not dictators, they’re dictatorial. May we dare say a smidgen fascistic? Why am I not surprised each country is playing games with one another and their own people and that a man has been tortured and murdered by his own government? It’s all there in the company you keep.

Turkey (and especially Erdogan) is extremely intelligent in its handling of this horrific story. It just shows how really smart people can run circles around Trump and his simple-minded rallies and slogans.

Once again, the US president is being played by an authoritarian dictator for the whole world to see. Always susceptible to flattery and praise, no matter how undeserved, the president’s naiveté and gullibility are seen as weak spots that dictators can use against him and America. The president has completely embraced the theory that “rogue killers” were responsible for Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance and murder, making him even more laughable to world leaders about how uninformed and easily led he is. A fair question is how much about Khashoggi's killing did the president and Jared Kushner know and when did they know about it? And do they really care about what happened to the Post journalist?

However ordered this "hit" needs to get out more or change professions. Maybe watching some 21st century forensic shows or reading newly published murder mysteries might help. Traveling into a foreign country with a bone saw (as one of the 15 did), torturing a prominent journalist to death and chopping him up in a location that is known by all concerned, and then trying to clean up the area with fresh paint and dispose of the body in a land not familiar to them; all this is more like what you should NOT do if you do NOT want to get caught nowadays. Definite change and reform needed at all levels...

Ms Gall, Thank you for this article. Much as there has been so many articles about Khashoggi's brutal murder, news has been scarce regarding Turkey's motivation and drip by drip tactical approach to this sad and horrific international debacle. I've always suspected that Erdogan is a participant in the Kabuki theater that Trump and the Saudis are playing.

I used to refer to Trump as a slow-motion car crash. But has he ever even driven a car - or has he always been chauffered. Look at how excited he was when he got behind the wheel of a truck. He looked like a geriatric 3-year old playing at driving. Now look at him playing at president. All he has for reference, really, are stories from his childhood, of conquest and kingdoms. I was thinking perhaps it's just because he's bought and paid for that he kowtows to a corrupt monarchy of Saudi Arabia or a blatant adversary like Russia. But now I believe it's not only that. He's re-living his childhood fantasy of conquest and kingdoms and of having his own monarchy. This is not a toy for him to smash. It's not even his. It cannot be stressed enough how important these mid-terms are. Please vote. Please make sure conscientious neighbors vote. Please remind the people who just turned 18 that this is their civic duty because their future is not just in our hands, it's in theirs. Make sure they vote.

This killing has become a Rorschach test of motivations. One commentator of this article links it to the Palestinian issue. James Smith, former U.S. Ambassador (during Obama's first term as President) links non-release of the audio and video as a bargaining tool of Turkey, relating to Saudi relations with Qatar. No doubt Idlib, the Kurds, and the fate of northern Syria would be added by some. Personally, I think that Khashoggi was indeed killed, and that it relates to a Saudi fear of Arab Spring 2.0 .

Finally, an attempt to explain what’s in it for Turkey, though much is speculation. I’m especially curious about any reasons Turkey doesn’t want the prince in power.

"Nevertheless, according to one report, Mr. Erdogan was incensed by an interview in which the Saudi crown prince told the Bloomberg News agency that he had no knowledge of Mr. Khashoggi’s whereabouts, and even claimed to be looking for him. The leaks started soon after..." I think this is one of the most telling parts of this article. It seems likely that Turkish officials who personally knew or were acquainted with Jamal Khashoggi agonized over this, felt trapped, felt tempted to leak, etc. I would guess that this is more a series of accidents than some thought-out strategy, with Erdogan uncertain what the US or the Saudis were/are going to do next, and reacting to developments as they occur. One suspects that the Turks have reasons to be careful with sharing their audio recording. It is fascinating that certain Turkish news journalists felt safe complaining about not getting information from officials before their American counterparts, and that Erdogan's government responded to the complaint by next leaking to Sabah, a Turkish paper. Erdogan's government has not protected journalists, of course, but still apparently responds to the complaints of some. Turkish officials must feel themselves to be trapped as well, and deeply frustrated.

Truth may require "death by a thousand cuts..."

More great reporting on this story. Really appreciate getting more info on what Turkey has at stake and how it’s interests relate to Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East. Keep it coming NYT! Thank you for keeping this important and interesting story visible.

There is also the matter of Palestine and Jared Kushner's loyalty to Likud and the Jewish Settler's Movement. Kushner controls Trump's Mideast Policy, which seeks to isolate and suffocate the Palestinians. MBS appears to be ok with that, but Erdogan sees himself as Palestine's defender. Exposing MBS as the murdering savage he is undermines Kushner's agenda, including his plan to crush Palestine.

The one issue that hasn't been mentioned is that this was not simply a killing. Killing someone can be done fast and with little to no evidence of who committed the crime. A sniper, car bomb, fall, poison, accident,... This wasn't just a killing, it was, and still is, a message. This is also about revenge. Torturing your victim, killing him by dismembering him, recording the screams, the begging, the pleading, the fear, the terror in his voice. There is probably a video somewhere because the person who ordered the hit wanted (perhaps still wants) to relish every moment of agony. This isn't just an extrajudicial killing - it is much more.

Turkey is playing this whole thing very smart they are bleeding the Saudis dry big time on this incident.

Here's the very latest piece of information just leaked by Turkish authorities in the continuing investigation of Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance: Security camera images of the fifteen Saudis who were in Istanbul and who are believed to have played a role in Khashoggi's disappearance show all of the men wearing Dismembers Only jackets.

The Trump administration should demand any evidence that the Turkish and Saudi governments have regarding the brutal murder of Jamal Khosshoggi, an American-based journalist. This investigation is a sham. The F.B.I. has every right to investigate since Mr. Khoshoggi was an American resident who worked for the Washington Post. Trump has to stand up for the First Amendment and our nation's values and stop putting his personal business interests before those of the United States. The president took an oath to protect the Constitution. Failure to do so is an impeachable offense.

So we have three opponents of open media including Trump competing to see who looks the worst at the end of this and who gets the most cash/military orders/.. This is a byproduct of Trump and his isolationist transactional foreign policy.

"..look, these people (Saudis) are key allies,” evangelical leader Pat Robertson said this week. “We’ve got an arms deal that everybody wanted a piece of. . . . It’ll be a lot of jobs, a lot of money come to our coffers. It’s not something you want to blow up willy-nilly.”* So tell me Pat, you have a direct line, what would Jesus say? *Vox.com, 11/17/18

It seems that subtlety is becoming an increasingly important weapon in a world where information (or misinformation) and its spread can have far-reaching consequences. Publicly accusing Crown Prince MBS of ordering Khashoggi's assassination would have made the world much less sympathetic to Turkey and Erdogan, as they have immediate political interests. However, this "slow drip" of news has caught and maintained the attention of the world and focused outrage upon MBS. One could draw a bit of a parallel between this and Putin's election meddling; if Russians went on to Facebook and pushed propaganda/misinformation on Republicans, they would have been much less likely to accept it than they did. But instead, it came from "Americans," and we all know how effective that turned out to be.