The migrants storming the Mexico-Guatemala border in their quest to reach the US and the promise of better economic conditions plays right into the hands of President Trump and energizes GOP voters. There is no question these people are desperate as no one leaves one’s country, family and friends just for the heck of it. But as heart breaking as this is we cannot just open the door to all of them, especially when many if not most of them have no education and simply will add to the rolls of minimum wage workers and probably depend on public assistance. When Mitch McConnell is arguing that the deficit caused by the GOP’s tax cut requires cuts in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security we cannot let our hearts hand the GOP a lifeline that may allow them to keep control of Congress in November.
12
What a gift for Trump! Now he looks like the great protector of our country, just before election day. Why would they come in a caravan? Do they really think ICE would let a caravan through the border? Or maybe some Republican suggested it.
5
Everyone would like to live in the US or Western Europe. Who could blame them? Besides climate change and environmental degradation, this problem and our response to it will define the 21st century.
5
We were lost for months, alone, in a hot, dry desert. We walked miles and miles with no idea of where to go. We had no water, no food, and it seemed like we will lose our most precious procession, the House.
Then, one evening, we noticed a tiny spot in the horizon. We watched hopefully as it grew into a caravan..
- Republicans
3
THE US is also refusing to assist on birth control because of our conservative hypocritical conservatives who love the fetus but the child, not so much. These families are large and without resources. It's a dilemma without one solution.
16
If Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Nixon's banana republic exploitation of central america isn't mentioned in an essay about modern migration then the author is doing a disservice to her audience. The chickens are coming home to roost. Plain and simple. Everywhere I visited in Honduras, Guatemala and Nicaragua I implored them to migrate, to escape the insanity that the U.S. had created by supporting dictators in that region for decades, invading and occupying countries purely for cheap fruit cocktails for the elite. It was an evil that we can not sweep under the rug. Modern Americans plainly claim stolen property is 'theirs'. It isn't. It's stolen property and building a wall around stolen property doesn't change that status. If only ethics were that easy. History has convicted the U.S. and humanity acts appropriately. I say, it makes no difference what border policy we have; they will come no matter what as surely as the tide covers the beach. Guaranteed.
7
@Oggy
These false associations are misguided. We aren't obligated to open our borders to millions of economic migrants because of the complex and complicated policies of past US administrations, policies that do not exist in vacuum. There are many other factors and forces at play here, and the world has more than doubled -- an increase from 2.5 billion people to 6.9 billion -- in the past 50 years alone.
And if you truly want to go after a nation whose political policies have contributed to worldwide overpopulation, oppression and migration issues, you need look no further than the Vatican's Catholic policies on women and birth control.
38
The naïveté of some commenters below is absolutely breathtaking! There are approximately 6 BILLION people living in poor, overpopulated, often violent third world countries who want to migrate to first world countries, particularly the United States....
... as if jobs for unskilled labor and cheap housing were plentiful here.
... as if our urban centers weren’t already overcrowded and violent, teeming with the homeless.
... as if our schools and hospitals weren’t struggling to meet demand.
... as if our water and energy resources weren't already strained.
... as if the quality of life of our own citizenry wasn’t spiraling progressively downward.
... as if the cacophony of competing interests, communities, and cultures wasn’t already tearing apart our nation’s unity.
Enough! Some of us...even moderate liberals like ourselves... have had it with illegal foreign nationals and their misplaced sense of entitlement....and we’ll vote accordingly in November.
45
@Shenoa, Well said, thank you.
24
A critical piece of information is missing here. Pueblo sin Fronteras, a group from the USA, whose leader holds dual USA/Honduran citizenship has assembled this band of migrants and planned the march to take place during the run-up to our elections and it is planned to have them camped on the US/Mexico border by election day as a bit of political theater to influence our elections.
13
@chillymost1
If that's indeed the case, i suspect it may backfire spectacularly. Unless the leader is in fact a Trump fan.
12
Lost in the right-wing crypto-fascist racist hate/fear-mongering rhetoric is any acknowledgment that Conservative Republicans seeded this mess in the first place. During the Reagan years it was American foreign policy to support oligarchies, juntas and dictatorships throughout Central America. Remember Reagan’s covert arms deals with the Islamic Republic of Iran, our great friends, to support anti-Sandinista rebel groups in Nicaragua?
Tip of the iceberg, Reagan’s covert arms/money horse trading (for which he should have been impeached). Honduras and Guatamala were rent by near-genocidal social wars that pitted race-against-race, class-against-class, social wars fueled by American “advisers”, arms and CIA money to “fight the spread of Castroite Communism” throughout the Americas; Castro our great geopolitical bugaboo at the time. Just like Islam is today.
We created this “refugee caravan crisis” all by ourselves.
But, behold! Evangelical Christians, whose hearts are filled to overflowing with God’s love and grace, now ride to the rescue. They have embraced the homeless, destitute and downtrodden trudging towards our shores. They have opened their homes and wallets, are sharing their loaves and fishes. True Christian love.
Oh ... .
No?
I’m mistaken?
They aren’t?
Was I misinformed?
They’re chanting “Build The Wall!” at Trump rallies?
That’s what they’re doing instead?
20
There is no end to the violence, corruption, terror, poverty, and lawlessness in this world. We could eradicate every bit of greenery in this country and displace or kill all the wildlife in an effort to build housing for the many millions seeking a better life, and it would still be a drop in the bucket of worldwide misery. In the end, we will have done nothing to stem the tide of despair, but we will have destroyed the environment and plundered our natural resources in the process.
30
I have to add this to my previous comment. It’s easy to keep people out. The rich of America could invest in poor countries, making them desirable places to live. That could be my next stop! But I fear that global warming will put an end to this argument.
6
I started in Buffalo, many years ago. I went to Chicago for advancement. I went to Arkansas for a better life. I was invited to California to start a business. How can you say that I have a better right to be here than people setting one foot across an imaginary border? We’re all migrants.
5
These migrants are the gift that keeps on giving to Trump's re-election campaign.
29
For anyone complaining about the mass migration from Honduras, please read the article I linked below. The U.S. is to blame for the current situation since colonialism. We cannot complain about a problem we created. We must find a humane and morally responsible solution, which would not include a wall.
http://theconversation.com/how-us-policy-in-honduras-set-the-stage-for-t...
6
Yes of course we are responsible for everything bad in the world. No o e has any agency, it’s all on us. I don’t accept that.
27
Everytime the NYT runs an article on Immigration the true nature of America rears it's ugly head, selfish, isolationist, tribal and willfully ignorant.
We are a large country with an aging population and decreasing birth rates, we can absorb these people who would work hard to support their families and their new country.
Keeping these people out won't make you any richer or any whiter.
11
Praying that word will get to the Hondurans, that’s America no longer has a heart. They need to be warned that they will have their children torn from their arms, by a heartless leader who is devoid of compassion.
What shocks me that most, is that the majority of people who support Trump ‘s evil interment camps claim to be Christian! Yet they do not know that Jesus’ Great Commandment is, “Love one another as iahve loved you.”
YES, VET the immigrants, checkwhat papers they have. But to put them in interment camps AND separate them from their children is CRUEL and EVIL.
12
As the world’s population increases and resources are diminished, there will be no end to these people attempting to invade our country. They are a threat to our nation’s sovereignty, security, and the well-being of our own citizenry....so we had better work out an effective means to stop them from crossing our borders NOW.
Of course, the Left-Prog Dems will no doubt be cheerleading them on...standing ready with an army of lawyers and activists. Sickening....
27
Canada has a point system based largely on the needs of the state then the needs of the applicant. So for example, if you're young, speak several languages, and have a phd in a STEM field, you're basically in. If one wants a work visa, the application has to include a letter from the employer explaining why a Canadian cannot fill the job. Then they try to make sure the visa holder is either in college, gainfully employed, or running their own business. And they do not discriminate between religions or political ideologies.
And while i do realize the vast differences between the two countries immigration challenges, Canada seems to have made immigration work for them, we just fight it like the newest war.
32
@G.E. Barrow
This is an important comment. Most seem to think Canada is a haven, or the migrants should stay in Costa Rica or Mexico: these aforementioned countries have much stricter eligibility requirements than we do. To become a Canadian citizen one must speak proficient French or English...
13
Liberal that I am, I still don't like this. I think we're being set up -- that this is simply a way to make this a bigger campaign issue than it already is. The U.S. must expand and strengthen its refugee program which would allow some of these folks to come her legally, as they should. We're a big, rich country. We can afford to be generous and we should be. But I think "storming the border" is an idiotic idea and plays right into Trump's hand.
20
They don't really make a good argument for immigration expansion. But they do make a really good argument for birth control in latin America. Too bad the people in all those countries and their governments oppose it.
Truly hopeless.
48
Part 2: I hope the DNC and Democratic leaders see these reader comments: Immigration is the single issue that will cause them to lose in November.
We have become a nation that represents only two groups: 1. The wealthy and 2. Immigrants.
Republicans steal from taxpayers to represent the wealthy. Democrats steal from taxpayers to represent immigrants. Who represents actual taxpaying citizens anymore?
One big reason Republicans keep winning (other than gerrymandering and an electoral process that favors them) is that their messaging (propaganda) is all about average Jane and Joe Taxpayer. It's all lies, of course, but people buy it because they aren't hearing ANYTHING from Democrats other than "We represent illegal immigrants and asylum seekers."
This is a vicious cycle:
Republicans have dismantled our social safety net and worker and consumer protections, they've automated and offshored our jobs, and siphoned billions from our budget for tax cuts for the wealthy.
Democrats have dismantled our rule of law as they seek to be a nation of near-open borders and unrestricted immigration.
Both of these extremes are unsustainable. But Republicans win because Democrats are not focusing on Americans. The immigration problem is about common sense. It has ZERO to do with the race or origin of immigrants. We as a nation simply cannot afford to absorb the financial and environmental burden of unlimited immigration.
25
The end goal in life of millions from other nations should not be to come to the US. We can't take in all and any who arrive. We just can't. Our country will soon resemble the places that these people have left. It already does in many areas. The average American does not benefit from immigrants both illegal and legal. No mas. Too many people.
43
These stories and the numbers of migrants are a direct effect of the military coup supported by the US. Along with brutal repression came the imposition of neoliberal debt colonialism which erased social institutions and destroyed the countries economy. Again these are desperate refugees of our own making.
77
Nope. This is due to overpopulation and lack of birth control at the same time as work to improve the health of people in these countries.
11
“We decided to come because of the economic situation."
Not one would be refugee even hinted at what work they will do in the US. At best an unskilled minimum wage job with no benefits.
The days when a good amount of the population worked in agriculture is gone by a century.
With apps and automation eliminating so many tasks as well as jobs, the US can't be taking in people that may never be employed.
86
It seems these immigrants come for the same reason that immigrants founded the country in the first place: to escape intolerable conditions.
Trump resorts to calling them rapists and murderers because he is a rabble-rouser, and that's what they do wherever they appear.
That he should appear in a country like the U.S. which ostensibly is a democratic country is the real tragedy. That he can fire up his base using anti-immigrant rhetoric and tactics is the bigger part of the tragedy.
The U.S. was once a great country. Ironically, the one who screamed he was making the country great, again, is taking it down a path of decay. The country's ethics are in the trash can and with it, its world image.
59
@Manuela No, you watch too much CNN! At what point is it going to be enough? Our country is NOT a dumping ground for the 3rd world- Nobody gave us our country and freedom, we and our ancestors had to fight for it. That's the reason why we cherish it so much
16
@Magna0883
Do you think the people coming in from countries like Honduras are not fighting for their lives, and in many cases, die in the fight to come to the U.S.?
I immigrated to the U.S. from Germany as a child as my mother had become a naturalized citizen through marriage. All I had to do was raise my right hand and swear to be a good citizen. That wasn't much of a fight. Now I am applying to become a Mexican citizen. A bit of a bureaucratic mind-boggle, but not what I'd call a fight.
This is a much larger problem that a simple (and expensive) wall just won't fix. Denying foreign aid will only aggravate the problem. Solutions are in Honduras, and revolve around helping them develop their economy and provide for their own people.
74
The foreign aid we give to these countries is not being used to improve conditions for these people. I'm sure any reduction - or absence - of US foreign aid would not make any direct difference to them.
I suspect removing aid money would pinch the lifestyle of their countries' leaders - so why not cut them off?
14
@Robert Selover
The problem is the corruption of all of this central american governments.
15
I'm horribly torn about this.
For some background, I'm a Latina Jew of Color whose family has been in the US for the past two generations. Although my grandparents did leave their home countries (Germany and Mexico) to seek a better life in America, they did so through legal means, either through a traditional immigration process or by becoming naturalized while in the Army fighting in WWII. They too were fleeing poverty and violence.
I consider myself a staunch liberal and progressive. I find Trump and his cronies repulsive and abhor what he represents. But at the same time, the idea of a completely open border makes me deeply uncomfortable. Most of the people profiled in this article are moving north in search of economic opportunity. They are not fleeing civil war, famine, or genocide. They are not stopping in countries that are safer or have stronger economies. They also don't seem to have any real desire to become citizens of the US at all.
Every other nation on the planet has borders. I couldn't just show up at the Canadian border and expect to be allowed to move in without any vetting. Our country is already overpopulated, and millions of our fellow Americans also live in poverty and under the threat of violence. What's happening in Honduras is terrible, but we have to keep in mind that our own neighbors also desperately need help. Forgetting that fact in favor of virtue-signaling will only ensure that the Republicans maintain control of Congress.
98
@Alexandra
if your family included a Jew they were also fleeing concentration camps and death. you are right to be torn. This caravan is not that. We cannot take all of central america in. Let's send support to help repair their homelands.
5
@Alexandra “you couldn’t expect to be allowed in at the Canadian border without some vetting” no, but that’s not what’s happening at our border. When these desperate people show up, they will have two choices: 1. Go home or 2. You can stay but you and your children will be placed in Internment Camps, separately. You say, you are a Jew? How would your ancestors have felt fleeing Nazism? Desperate. These folks, are too.
1
@Alexandra Similar to what I am thinking and feeling. I too am a lifelong "liberal" but have grown weary of this issue and the liberal response to it. Not only are we not free to cross into Canada or other countries without going through their border control, you must then go back through our own US border control to return to the US. It is beyond my comprehension that people can think they live in a place so rarified that they don't have to follow the rules that I as a lifelong citizen of the US has to adhere to. I believe that there are people fleeing who truly do fear for their lives and they are free to present themselves at the border for asylum. And I feel bad for people who are fleeing poverty. But they can't just come into the country like they are somehow entitled. That is what causes the anger.
26
Isn't there some barren Indian reservation land that can be set aside for the caravan?Tribal leaders can show the way for America.Rich Americans can kickstart a charity to set up an ongoing fund for a built from scratch city.Tax money would not be used.A work force would be willing to work for food and shelterVolunteers would show up.It would become a cause and a beacon for a rebirth of America.
2
No. You're talking about creating a Guatemala COLONY in the US. This is an absurd suggestion. It would only result in the exact same conditions these people claim to be fleeing - with the addition of US tax dollars handed over to support them.
No.
28
@Margo It is Indian land.As I said there would be no tax dollars.It would not be what they are fleeing from. Original Americans would provide the leadership not immigrants .Yes.
People in this caravan are hopeless and lost. This journey is just an excuse for them to have something to do that gives them hope, and traveling gives humans a feeling of purpose. They are following an ancient call to migrate and it is only natural that other human beings along the way would show them compassion and love, which also reinforces their desire to keep going.
15
@Gigi LoveVery interesting comment.
1
Mexico can absorb some of these people and already has incorporated many. US oil, farming, hospitality and restaurant businesses are literally screaming for more workers. Canada also needs more workers in all the categories listed above.
These people need the very basics and are willing to work. Building a wall. Shutting them out. Separating families. incarcerating children? Let them starve, die or be victimized by gangs, disease, vicious border patrols, the US government?
Not the values of the USA where I grew up. Not the values of my family, community, schools and church. And, I believe, I hope - not the values of the majority of Americans.
In a few short weeks we will see if the USA is determined to go down this dark path of Trumpian/Republican disregard for law, dissolution of international doctrine and the inherent inhumanity and evil towards all but the wealthy and the privileged.
8
Really?
The Mexicans who cross illegally are doing so because they claim not to have job prospects in their own country.
Displacing Mexicans in Mexican jobs with Guatemalan workers will just result in MORE Mexicans trying to cross into the US illegally.
Think of the consequences.
21
These poor people are NOT migrants looking to follow the crops and pick lettuce.
They are REFUGEES fleeing violence in their home countries.
The Associated Press makes it OK to use the term 'migrant' widely even when it is obvious these people have given up everything except the clothes on their backs and are fleeing for their lives.
Not migrants looking for work (although they do want to support their families) these people are REFUGEES trying to protect their families.
It is an important distinction.
9
In the past, there could be resistance and work to improve conditions. That made the US what it is.
If Guatemala needs that to improve, these young, healthy looking people need to be there to fight for what they need.
15
@Patrick Conley
They are REFUGEES fleeing violence in their home countries.
They only want to come to the USA, not to other country. Sorry they are not refugees
12
They may think they are coming to a better life but that isn't true anymore. With trump in office he may decide to just start shooting anyone attempting to enter the country. The US has all but shut down asylum for anyone so why do they keep coming. Do they believe that they will be treated fairly once they arrive? They face death in the US once they reach the border. trump base gets so stirred up by his rhetoric that they may start shooting. trump will not hesitate to order shootings if he can't stop them any other way. If you're not white don't come...that is his message.
2
The fact these caravans are getting attention now is why changing status-quo is important, even if it makes us cringe, uncomfortable, downright angry (Trump presidency)
For the last thirty years, status-quo persisted.
And stop with fake differences between Obama/ Bushes/ Clinton. These types of illegal entries happened, but status-quo was ok with it.
11
No. These caravan people, which include a lot of young men, are not true refugee asylum seekers. They are economic migrants. If they were truly fleeing terror they would go to the nearest safe country and stay there.
We The People, the taxpayers, do not want any more illegal immigrants or economic migrants in our country. WE CANNOT SUSTAIN THIS MADNESS. We don't have the financial or natural resources to continue our near-open borders. We d point even take care of the poor in our own country. Our social safety net, which the Republicans have been slowly destroying, can't support unrestricted economic immigrants -- legal or illegal.
While I find it exceedingly suspicious that this is happening within weeks of a crucial midterm election, it is nonetheless an issue that must be addressed by Democrats. Republicans know that immigration is the one issue where most Democrat voters diverge from Democrat politicians and media talking heads. The majority of Americans, regardless of political stripe, do not support or want our current tolerant, lax immigration policies -- we want enforced restrictions on legal immigration and asylum seekers.
Democrats better start speaking out on this issue or they will lose in November. Democrats better demonstrate that they represent actual real American citizens, not just immigrants and illegal immigrants, or they will lose. Again.
51
Other news sources report they're singing their national anthem as they march. They need to return home.
23
This article confirms the fact that the vast majority of these migrants are economic refugees and not eligible for asylum. Even if they were eligible for asylum, they should be applying in Mexico. Mexico allowing these people to transit Mexico and illegally enter the USA, makes Mexico complicit in the crime of illegally entering the United States. The US has strict laws against aiding people illegally crossing into the United States. Mexico should be charged as a criminal conspirator.
30
@Mike If they arrive at the Mexican border without a passport, they will not be allowed in.
2
Word must be out that there are more jobs than people available to fill them because of the booming American economy and there is a promise of millions of new jobs being created daily as manufacturers from around the world move to America to take advantage of the labor shortage.
There is no labor shortage in America. There is an unwillingness of American corporations to pay living wages and hire American workers.
32
I don't care one bit WHY they are making their "journey". They are attempting to flagrantly break U.S. law and that cannot be allowed.
This is the kind of crazy nonsense that brought Trump to the White House. All Americans should be united in stopping it.
One has to wonder if the Republican Party is actually orchestrating this mess to influence the midterm elections!
69
@Will. Not all will attempt to break the US law. Many will apply for asylum but trump has shut that down, but they will try. I agree that the republicans needed a distraction just before the elections. Maybe they are paying for the gas & food for the migrants on the caravan?
4
Please keep heading north. Keep growing and swamp the border with 10,000 people on November 5th, waving Guatemalan and Honduran flags. Make sure that the U.S. media covers your journey every step of the way.
That might tip enough elections to enable Republicans to hold on to the House.
I can almost imagine Roger Stone leading the mob onward.
26
The answer is simple. Build the wall.
The wall allows for systematic ingress and egress to our country. We must control who we allow or not in to our country, it's a matter of national security and common-sense.
Those that wish to apply for asylum can and will be processed at identified ports of entry, this way family separations can be minimized. The wall forces the traveller to use the official ports of entry, minimizing deaths for those prepared to take unbelievable risks.
We save money of welfare (for non-valid entrants), we save money on the drugs and other criminal imports, we keep out the worst of the worst, and our government works to protect us, the people.
It seems like a no-brainer to me. It costs nothing, indeed it saves us money, it promotes the efficient and effective management of a problematic issue. The wall should have bipartisan support, but then there's politics...
If Democrats are serious about helping those more unfortunate than themselves, in this case economic refuges, they will support building the wall. All else is pride.
I hope these people enjoy new lives in Mexico, call me weird, but they seem far better suited to life there, language alone might dictate, and hey! Mexico is a successful economy.
Official Ports-of-Entry please.
37
The US has always been a destination, a frontier, for a crowded desperate world. And once here, immigrants have tried to create laws to keep newcomers out. We still use parts of the Alien and Sedition laws enacted circa 1800.
Currently, we allow so few visas (ie five a year from say, Honduras) for the unskilled that people are almost obliged to come illegally.
It seems to me that if foreigners believed that they stood a reasonable chance of emigrating within say, seven years, they would apply at their local US consulate and wait. Meantime, our rules would demand that they become educated in English, civics, history, and a basic skill. We would have to subsidize schools, but hopefully we would save at ICE and spend at State.
Now if only we would provide the same opportunities for our poorest citizens.... But we can do that too if we vote for enthusiastic optimistic leadership instead of those who say, “you are on your own, brother, now that I’ve got mine.”
6
Nobody is forcing them to go to the US.
13
I was taught you can run from your problems so perhaps theses ppl need to confront their government and demand change or do like we do and force change. Take control of their streets and fight back. We are not the worlds free ride in fact nothing is free. My father fought in WWII has shot twice and a POW he did something to change the path the world was on he put his life on the line. These other countries need to step up to the plate and stop running and hiding. They must make a stand it’s their country. We call it revolution.
38
Except we’ve seen this happen unsuccessfully in Venezuela (most recently). The people rose up, protested, blocked streets, etc to get food and medicines for months. People were jailed, political leaders went missing.....This hasn’t changed anything for their country except getting them more international attention.
I don’t know what the solution is but it definitely seems to be in their own country and helping them set up their infrastructure.
12
Why don't they head south?
Because this is all orchestrated to cause chaos for our country for political reasons. Yes they have barbaric and desperate reasons to flee their home countries but why are we hearing them migrating to South America.
Social justice operatives connected to Soros and other leftist groups are doing this, using the misery of others, to take the longer route to the States.
One story above states a woman separated from her family before reaching our border. She may never connect with them again...all for someone political agenda That is what is heartbreaking.
34
@Monica
Look up “Darien Gap” in Wikipedia.
1
@Monica What is heartbreaking is your insistence that this is political. It may have something to do with politics in the migrants' home countries.
But this current administration creates and sustains its own chaos and doesn't need help from George Soros or anyone else. Can you imagine the desperation that woman feels over being separated from her daughter? I doubt she's thinking about politics.
6
Instead of spending hundreds of millions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars paying prison-owner Republican donors to lock up people who only seek to work hard to create a better life for their children we could choose to:
1) invest in building strong economies in our neighborhood, given the good fortune, unlike so many other countries, of having friendly neighbors (Those who don't care to do it for the humanity, should note that strong regional economies would be a potential market for our goods with lower transportation costs than Europe or Asia.)
2) focus enforcement on stopping the gun running south and the drug smuggling north that leaves so many good people in communities controlled by cartels, where it is dangerous to build a business, and which drives so many people here
8
There are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people living around the world in conditions of extreme poverty and other risks to health and safety. Their plight is real, and it demands a humanitarian response. Meanwhile, a climate catastrophe threatens humanity and our planet. The solution cannot be to swell the population of the developed countries by taking in huge refugee flows; that solution would lead to toxic social disruption and a huge increase in climate-endangering consumption.
What is needed instead is a fairer sharing of the world's resources and new models of development and living that minimize fossil-fuel and resource consumption. What is needed is an effort on the part of the United States and other rich countries to dramatically decrease their own consumption and to provide aid to poorer countries to raise their people's living standard through sustainable development. What is ultimately needed is a rejection of capitalism, which generates poverty and obscene inequality at home and abroad. Only when resources are fairly and sustainably shared will our planet be safe and the destabilizing flow of refugees be ended.
29
@Mark Oh, you mean Socialism?? NO
7
@Mark
Mark, and who will determine how to “fairly” share those resources, I assume you? After you have distributed all those assets of the capitalists, and they have stopped producing, where will next year’s assets come from?
13
Trump just raised the defense department spending by 65 billion. Heard it on PBS last night. How much of that goes to Afghanistan a black hole war zone if ever there is one. Take 5 billion and set up a refugee camp on the border of Honduras and Mexico. Pay for professional guard services. Then set up a go fund me page and guilt trip all those undocumented workers to chip in. Call the United Nations to help with logistics, but not to run it. They have become another corrupt bureaucracy. If you can privatize prisons the same can be done for refuge camps. Call Jeff Bezos. It’s time for him to step up.
9
I am all for increasing the amount of people we allow to immigrant to the U.S ... LEGALLY!! The people featured in this article should not qualify for asylum. Their problems aren't greater then many Americans (foeign born or not) that struggle in this country. They do not have the issues the Rohingya, the Yazidis etc have. Once they're here, we'll be treated to another set of articles condemning the kind of treatment they're receiving. I've had enough. Stories like these only help the GOP.
69
@DKC, No. Increasing legal immigration amounts will not be the panacea for the world's overpopulation and poverty. We should be halving legal immigration right now.
13
So this narrative keeps being pushed that Central Americans are fleeing for their lives from gang violence and crippling poverty and the US needs to give them asylum. Well after reading this story, that appears to be false. These pictures are full of very well fed adults who have many small children. Case in point is; “Lindell Marroquín, a single mother with five daughters”. Then we have wheelchair bound Mr. Maldonado who said. “We wanted to go to the United States to see if we could ask for a couple of prosthetics.” And finally Ms. Lopez says; “There isn’t work or anything. You can’t live in Honduras. There isn’t money, There’s no help from the government. There’s nothing.” What I get from this article is that these people know we have lax border enforcement and generous government assistance that can be taken advantage of. If Mr. Maldonado makes it across the border he will probably get his prosthetic legs through a free clinic paid for by the US tax payer. And if you give birth in the US, your “anchor baby” is immediately eligible for WIC, food stamps, and Medicaid. But countless American seniors on Medicare can’t afford their own medications, and working class people with no health insurance pray they don’t get sick because it could mean financial ruin. Yup that’s how it works. And you wonder why people are against illegal immigration?
118
@Altered Carbon
the single mom with 5 daughters really makes me crazy. she must be sent back WITH the kids. No child separation to pull at heartstrings...let hew be totally irresponsible in Honduras. Truly this is not the sort of thing that deserves asylum. Sad for the kids, but we have more than enough of our own impoverished families.
17
The only reason the US is not inundated with 'immigrants' from Asia and Africa is because of geographical barriers.
Any immigration needs to be based on a system that sees all peoples equally and makes them go through a set of steps that qualifies them to enter legally based on merits of their cases. Jumping the fence is not one of them.
You would not let that happen to your home. So why the country? Trump is right. This needs to be stopped.
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@Ram Trump is not right-he is just a puppet for the voices of hate and corruption that run through our nation. As far as immigrants are concerned, people need to be allowed to come to the US legally and through a process of systematic accomplishments that show good faith and a willingness to contribute to our nations well being. Those seeking asylum should be treated with the utmost dignity and respect, while having their situation diagnosed.
Since you are making comparisons of Honduras to Chicago, Baltimore and LA, have you been to any of those places? Have you been to San Pedro Sula? Do you know the murder rate there is 187 per 100,000 people? Chicago is 16. That 40% of Hondurans are unemployed, and that the average wage is $4 per day? That many village houses don’t have toilets or clean water meaning they drink rain water or get water from the same sources their waste runs into.
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How many mission groups have gone to San Pedro de Sul and worked to fix that? why are they not learning to support what they've been given?
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Violence? Then why are they not fleeing to other latin nations ? And fleeing to the US where they will end up in inner cities more dangerous than the front lines of Afghanistan. This is why a 2% candidate Trump won the election
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@Scott Calvin They certainly don't assimilate here- this country was founded and settled by Europeans- this isn't what they had in mind
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@Scott Calvin
because it is even harder to get citizenship and papers in Costa Rica, Mexico, Panama etc... in addition to the economic incentives to come here......
5
Economic hardship is simply not the basis for asylum. Not one of the people shown in the photographs appear as if they suffer from severe malnutrition. The simple reason they are migrating is because they want a better life. Whether or not that sounds reasonable to them, that alone cannot be the reason to let them in, from our perspective. They simply must be turned back, at the border itself.
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What is patently obvious in this article is that these people DO NOT qualify for asylum. Poverty is not a reason to be given asylum. Neither is gang violence based on economic threats. Nowhere did these people talk about making their own country better, the solution is to let the USA deal with there problems. I like many Americans am insulted these people think they can just skirt our laws by brining in minors to get a back door in. They know the drill, bring a minor, stay and never show up to the hearings. Their goal, make money here and send it back. These people are not coming here to be Americans and we have every right as a country to keep them out.
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All of us interact with illegal aliens every day. They bus our tables, they mow our lawns, they build our houses. It's a relationship that is overwhelmingly one sided in our favor. The problem is not that they take advantage of us, it's that we take advantage of them.
It's time to abolish the problem, it's time to declare that every human being should be free to live where ever they wish. They should be allowed in, to find work, to pay their taxes, to make their contribution just like our parents, or grandparents, or great grandparents did before them.
It's time to recognize that the violence in Central America and Mexico is caused by us; all fueled by our insatiable demand for illicit drugs which creates the drug trade that causes the violence.
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@PNBlanco I guess this is why Kelly and Bolton had a loud argument the other day. Kelly believes we should attack the problem at its source in Latin America. Bolton (and don't forget juvenile adviser, Stephen Miller) seem to want to build moats and walls and deploy the army to mow them down at the border
9
It is immoral to hire illegal immigrants under the table and you can figure out what's going on if you ask questions. Do not perpetuate this
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The sensible thing to do would be for the US to open its borders to these refugees. Most of them live in horrendous circumstances. The US is a vast country and can easily accommodate these poor people
3
@Kris: or they could go to Belgium.
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Sure, let them pitch a tent in my back yard?
And let me feed and clothe them, provide education? medical care? child care? vacations? maybe hand them my car keys? Give them jobs so my kid can't get a foot on the lower rungs of the employment ladder?
No.
19
Well, you could just meet them at the border and bus them up to Canada. Our borders are as porous as a colander, plus, our Prime Minister Trudeau opened his big mouth and invited one and all a while back, leaving our immigration people overwhelmed. The Canadian people were not impressed by this ill considered invitation.
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@i's the boy
well actually to become a Canadian citizen one must speak serviceable French or English, no such requirement here. Trudeau may let immigrants in- ?? but actual citizenship- not by your current laws much harder than in the US
Even Costa Rica requires 5 years of LEGAL residence before being able to become a citizen...
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@honeybluestar the US also requires 5 years as a legal resident. Please educate yourself.
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Their timing is so good that one might suppose Republican provocateurs had something to do with it.
Noooooo. Republicans wouldn't do something callous and underhanded like that. What was I thinking?
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@Himsahimsa So - are you suggesting NYT writers are driven by the GOP? Or GOP is now telling people in Honduras to come to the US? Either scenario is pretty far fetched.
9
I have grown so cynical in my old age, as I see these massive groups of desperate people I wonder if they aren't just Republican dirty tricks.
Of course, there are millions of people struggling to survive in Central and South America, but it seems just before each election we see many news reports of caravans like this.
The UN High Commisioner's office for Human Rights says every country has a right to borders, to restrict who gets admitted, and to deport those who don't obey the immigration laws, and that is certainly how I see things.
But what can you expect in a world where the official policy of the government is to play off one country against another, to never support human rights or jobs in their country...
Ah, JFK, I so remember the spirit of the Peace Corps and the time of helping neighbors in trouble. Cutthroat capitalism demands a downward spiral of wages and a tiny 1% upper class, and a world full of the desperate and struggling.
Hugh
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@Hugh Massengill It seems to me Trump is just trying to inflame his base like the demogogue he is. How else does he have a chance to keep a Republican House?
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@Hugh Massengill So, is the intent and ability to motivate Central Americans to uproot their lives, and walk to the US in defiance of Pres. Trump part of the vast right wing conspiracy? Or separate?
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@BB
The people walking clearly are not supporters of Trump, but in the realm of dirty tricks, things are often not as they seem. Brexit would never have happened if those large numbers of desperate immigrants hadn't been assaulting the borders. https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/13/us/gravely-ill-atwater-offers-apology...
hugh
This is heartwarming but ridiculous- Central America is in many ways a mess with ineffective political, economic and civil structures that we take for granted. That does not give these good people the right to take it upon themselves to embark to the US. This feeds into the Trumpian narrative and escalates the likelihood of more drama and cost.
Presidential leadership used to mean using political capital and the power and influence of the US to effect change. No President has done this to address the immigration/refugee crisis from Central America, including Clinton, Bush, Obama and of course this guy.
These people will be turned back into Mexico as they should, unless the outgoing government decides to deny them entry earlier. This kind of stuff may have gone by in 2000, but those days are long gone.
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And this is how the progressive movement ends. As our black and economically disadvantaged allies slowly start to realize that large numbers of undocumented, low skilled, and new arrivals harm their prospects to get ahead, they’re going to abandon the cause.
The undocumented don’t vote. And there aren’t enough good, white, woke, wealthy or educated progressives to win more than a small handful of House districts. We might do well this cycle, but over the long term this could cripple the Democratic Party as it forces our coalition of the fringes to unwind.
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As soon as they cross the border and claim asylum they will be given better housing, medical care, schooling and food than they had in their home country -- all provided by US taxpayers, some of whom live in very dangerous and poor places with terrible schools like the South Side of Chicago, Baltimore or South Central Los Angeles - and still more who live in former manufacturing or coal towns where the jobs have gone away and hope disappeared a long time ago.
Where is their asylum?
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Historically, the vast majority of current American citizens arrived 'without papers', from the Fist Nations to the Mayflower to Donald Trump's grandparents. We spent a good deal of the last century proud of Emma Lazarus' Mother of Exiles :"Give me your tired, your poor...The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...". We also spent much of that time bullying and exploiting our Southern neighbors for their lands and resources, Making (our part of) America Great, adding to the Spanish and Catholic catastrophes they've suffered under. Our own economic and medical issues are self-inflicted, (exploitations of labor, Jim Crow, health insurance and military spending, just to cherry-pick amongst multitudes); the solutions are known but mired in tribal/cultural wars, abetted by poor and miseducation. We could re-evaluate how we want to interact with the rest of this hemisphere, we could re-allocate much more our considerable wealth and technology away from the war machine and towards humanities, we can re-write our labor, education and immigration laws and policies to better reflect reality... but to too many it remains convenient for these migrants to be the Them, and to take misguided comfort in the thought that their issues are none of our 'business'.
15
@version 1: There is a new "we" now. You referred to immigration policies in the 19th and 20th Centuries. The world population has doubled in the last 50 years. There's endemic corruption and poverty in many countries. The US just cannot support, nor act as a nanny, for dysfunctional countries and their populations. We have too many folks in this country who are in as much need of help as the people that you want to let in.
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We as USA citizens must have borders and restrictions on who we admit based on merit. This country cannot support more poor , unskilled people who use food stamps, medicaid and bleed our system. Our deficit is already blown up. NO. We cannot afford this.
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@andyYou must have your head buried in the sand. Immigrants without papers cannot and o not receive food stamps, medicaid or any other benefits
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@simon el xul Perhaps immigrants don’t get benefits in Argentina, but they certainly do in the US. California and NYC are known to register (previously undocumented) immigrants to vote, and it is widely believed to happen elsewhere in the US.
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@simon el xul
WRONG: ALL of their children do get these benefits, and in NY state the adults can always get emergency medicaid despite immigration status FACT
not saying wrong to give them these things just a FACT
1
How about the NYT unleashes its astonishing investigative powers to dig much more deeply into this story to find out who is organizing and financing this mass invasion of the US by illegal immigrants? Surely there are a few Pulitzer Prize awards waiting out there for such a journalistic expose.
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@Ro Ma It is the employers in the US who give the migrants work, regardless of papers. The jobs are here and the people are paid US wages if they can get here.
I support the dreamers, I want a fair immigration policy. But we cannot take in all of central america. We need to develop programs for nation building there.I loathe Trump and all he stands for....but this “caravan” is exactly why we Dems will continue to lose.
Ocasio-Cortez: do you and other open borders people really think this us the way to go?
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If there's no money for essentials and no jobs, why are so many people dating and having children- when I knew I couldn't support myself, the last thing I needed was another mouth to feed.
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@mainesummers In the US the process is known as “get a kid, get a check.” With a kid you get money to set up your own apartment.
12
While I care about the plight of everyone who suffers in this world, the truth is that there is no way that the US can take in everybody who decides that their life could be better ! So - the US allows the caravan of people in, sorts out their problems, they may find jobs & apartments, and then start sending a little cash back to their relatives....and the pattern repeats - because everybody wants a better life if they can get it. So the problem for the US is how many can you allow in before you HAVE to stop this ? 20,000? 20 million ? because that has been happening all along, the word goes back to the poor that there is a better life with jobs & so it recurs ! You cannot blame them for trying, and they will tell you whatever story is known to work, that is human nature. I am not a Trump fan, but I do think this situation is only exacerbated because of the publicity. Trump has tried to stop this by incarcerating them & separating the kids from the parents, but it has not stopped the trend. It has to be resolved, but maybe the only way is for the US to actually give help to those who stay back in their countries. If Honduras were taken over & became a US protectorate which was then developed, would they all migrate INTO Honduras ?
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@vcragain
Interesting point re Protectorate...I have no idea if that’s possible, legal whatsoever. But your basic point is well taken-how to manage uncontrollable migration.
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@Terry Davies I was born and lived in a country that was a French protectorate as opposed to a colony. The French were to protect the country against any invader in exchange for being allowed to introduce some of their institutions, like education, a secular court system, hospitals and healthcare, libraries, universities etc. When applied fairly it is a very good system when better alternatives are in short supply.
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@vcragain
This is a serious idea that should be given consideration. Instead of railing around and separating families Trump should call a conference of these Central American countries and seriously try to fix this problem. This is not going away and force is not the answer but your idea is to intelligent for the person in the White House now but could be a start of a thought process for the next leader of our country. And not a minute to soon.
2
There are roughly 350 million Americans, inside the US border, about 35% of which have tragic stories of hardship and hard lives.
There are about 8 Billion people outside of the US border, who are not Americans, about 60% of which have tragic stories and hard lives.
Just the practical logistics of letting those 60% into the US (about 4.8 Billion people), say, next weekend, would be daunting.
However, let's say we all decided that was the right thing to do. If we did manage to let all 4.8 Billion people with a hard story into the US, that would make about 95% of the USA, suddenly, fall into the category of tragic, hard lives.
Is that what we want? Is that practical? Will that help either party or just destruct the USA?
What if the press were up in West Virginia focused on the hard lives there? Would that help? Or, how about in Rochester, NY where the social fabrics have collapsed in the inner city? Is the press bored with these hard times stories?
I wonder what makes practical sense here? I know I am interested in what happens in Rochester, and, how to fix it. Not Honduras. Folks there can fix their problems.
Not run from them.
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@Michael
What would you do if you were them?
This 'caravan' has been organized by Republican operatives to appear at the US border on the eve of our election. The goal is to highlight the illegal immigration issue. President Trump is using the 'caravan' issue to get out the conservative, anti-immigration vote in the US.
Does anybody re-call the mass hysteria across the US following the radio broadcast of the 'The War of the Worlds'?
10
"His hands on Earth: Courage, Compassion, Charism, and the Missionary sisters of the Sacred Heart of Jesus" recounts the horrific social and economic conditions in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador. The main motivation for migration is the extortion by gangs. Economics is also a major factor, but it's interesting that few of the migrants are from Nicaragua, which does not ahve such powerful gangs.
5
Very good points. I have adopted the viewpoint that if I lived in those countries where many immigrants come from, I would try any way I could to get into the U.S. I know that is true. I cannot fault these should for wanting a better life. I can and will fault is for not making a decent way for them to do it. the asylum/refugee path is probably the most viable option for almost all of those tough souls in the caravan.
5
@Don There are 7.5 billion people in the world currently. It will peak somewhere between 9 and 11 billion. Most of the increase will come in the poor countries. Most of these people will want to migrate. We have two choices realistically: (i) be tough now and send the illegal immigrants back, (ii) be absolutely brutal 25 years from now when the reality sets in.
The mass drownings that are happening in the Mediterranean in the last few years belongs to type (ii). I suggest we opt for type (i) now. At the very least this will force countries to curtail overpopulation.
4
@Glenn Cheney This shouldn't still be our problem. I've read a lot of arguments that blames the US for interfering in those countries. With or without interference these states will be in the same perplexing position. Their problems are rooted in cultlike Catholicism mixed with voodoo and animism. Those who feel so bad for them should adopt a family and take care of it until they are on their feet. I cannot afford to help anyone without jeopardizing my very existence. They should take care of themselves. Why don't they ask go to China or Russia or Mars?
12
All of this is happening at a very convenient time with the mid-terms looming.
I'd check the connections of the caravan organizers for links to the GOP and Trump operatives.
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@arvay
Or this was always happening..over the past decade or two.
Just that status-quo was ok with cheap labor (Republicans happy) and bigger voting block (Democrats happy)
Remember, status-quo is always bad in the long run. And we have had status quo for 20+ years.
5
The idea that this is mainly about safety and fleeing from violence is disproved by the fact that they are declining to move to safe, peaceful and close Spanish speaking countries (Costa Rica, Panama) and heading all the way up to the United States
The reason is clear: economic opportunity and lax southern border security in America
Millions or our lowed educated people are getting wiped out by globalization and automation. No prospects in sight. Opiod addiction running roughshod through their communities.
And people wonder why they resent this massive influx of illegal immigrants?
113
@Luciano: The actual figures for this influx of illegals are quite high. 20,000 to 40,000 individuals are apprehended at the US southwest border *each month*!
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
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@Luciano I totally agree with you. We cannot take care of our own people we shouldn't have to take care of foreigners .
13
@James, Those are the figures of those apprehended. What are the numbers of those who were not?
1