Our spineless President Trump, lover of murdering dictators, encourages this heinous conduct.
38
Trump spoke truthfully about atrocities committed by ISIS. Apparently the same atrocities don’t generate outrage when committed by the Saudis.
25
The longer the US protects Saudis, more complicit it becomes in the killing.
19
Send back their blood money one hundred million. It's nothing.put out international warrants now. No arms sales. No ties of any kind. Be a man and man up trump. They can stick their oil up. They are whimps. We don't sale arms to thugs. We the people u.s.a.
23
This is an absolute mess for KSA and the Crown Prince. He now has to arrest and jail some people very close and loyal to him. They may implicate him, falsely or not. He's in a corner, under the world's spotlight.
7
I just know the Turks are loving it. They got the cards.
5
Oh the tangled web known as the middle east. On one side we have a confirmed member of the Muslim Brotherhood who happens to be president of Turkey claiming to have irrefutable proof that a young prince who has promised to take on the old order of wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood killed a “journalist” that achieved fame and fortune by befriending the Saudi kings and princes who financed the muslim extremists who spawned Al Qaeda and ultimately the perpetrators of 9/11.
The middle east is a cesspool of tribalism and religious fanaticism. Successful autocrats and their sycophants have determined that to maintain control over the savages they rule thuggery and even murder is necessary. Saddam Hussein had similar inclinations but when George Bush determined that his methods were beyond the pale he invaded Iraq. Trillions of dollars and thousands of dead and maimed Americans later its clear that Hussein was right and Bush was wrong.
There is an old saying ascribed to Arabs that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Turkey is clearly not our friend. Saudi Arabia may be.
1
To have the Saudis investigate themselves is absurd, on the face of it. "Let's give them more time" said Secretary Pompeo. They need more time to get their story straight? Not if truth is being sought. Voters, you can't let this one go.
19
Maybe Jared is worried about his physical safety if he hangs around in SA...I am no supporter of the trumpistas and jared. I do not think anyone is safe in SA.
6
It is beyond ironic how Khashoggi is assassinated in a country where the same conditions he denounces in his home country, take place in Turkey.
In Turkey it is also a:
"state-run narrative dominates the public psyche, and while many do not believe it, a large majority of the population falls victim to this false narrative.”
This will not be a case of justice. There will be no justice on Khashoggi's assassination, it will be a trial for the interests of the parties involved, the United States, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia.
5
Journalists should honor Jamal Khashoggi with the highest journalism awards for bravery and the fight for truth in one of the darkest corners of the world. They should hold a rally in Washington DC and invite all journalist from around the world and condemn all despots and Saudi Arabia particularly. My hope is that Mr. khashoggi has not died in vain.
17
How dismaying and DELUSIONAL that President Trump thinks that the international community awaits his "lead," analysis and conclusion in this grisly matter. Countries he considers inferior to the U.S. have been far more forthcoming, factual and accurate in their analysis, as well as decent regarding their reaction.
I read that Saudi Major General Asiri has probably been selected to serve as the scapegoat for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's decision to have Mr. Khashoggi assassinated. If not for international attention, Asiri probably would be publicly beheaded. How should our nation deal with this mentality? Not by acting as if nothing had happened. Not by putting trade and economic deals with Saudi Arabia first. Would that not further embolden the Crown Prince?
I hardly always admire Saudi or Turkish behavior, but President Trump has nothing to brag about. I am grateful that decent people in the international community, including prominent U.S. politicians, are not as cowardly and misguided as President Trump, for whom money is God.
9
This story has persisted in the headlines through many news cycles. The Free Press of this country are to be commended for their focus for keeping the pressure on. Journalists throughout the world salute you. If these Saudi thugs are brought to justice, it is because of you.
14
After the Kavanaugh treatment I thought the political left didn't care whether someone was guilty or innocent if they disagreed with their policies. Why are they now so concerned with a political operative turned journalist who is against women's rights, gay rights and other progressive thinking? Do they actually have principles? Naw, must be some other reason. Oh yea, an opportunity to slam Trump.
1
Selling advanced weapons should be used as a carrot to allies who are friendly and cooperative with the US. Not to those countries who kill American residents and countries who have continually supported radical religious groups bent on destroying western democracies.
9
What I don't get is why the Saudis were so anxious to get ahold of a journalist who published stuff in opposition to them--that's not unusual in general. That they needed to murder someone who was not actually organizing any actual rebellion is so strange. There's way more to this than actually meets the eye. No one is near the truth on this.
10
Trump is an imbecile without morals, scruples or a conscience! The death of Mr. Khashoggie is an attack on the US, as well as on any other democratic country!
15
This country, under this leadership, has sunk so low, I think there is no getting out from under the scum of this country. We have all become pawns (willing, ignorant, unmoved) and no one, not one group, not one party is "man" enough (and I use that word cautiously) to do anything but whine about it. Hitler led his people down the road to destruction then deserted them. The same thing will happen to this country...then those left standing will be looking at each other with blank stares in disbelief. Disgusted does not even come close.
15
One word: MONEY
6
Is this why Nikki Haley resigned—didn’t want to deal with this horror?
7
It's at times like this that it is not lost on me that all but one of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi.
20
Have Jared Kushner and Ivanka relocated back to NYC? Jared is very close to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. What does Kushner have to say about his BFF? Jared has seen Saudi Arabia and Mohammed bin Salman as key to peace in Israel and Palestine?
How is that strategy looking now?
12
Please note: the JUSTIFICATION for turning a blind eye to the murder and dismemberment of a journalist is the money the US receives from selling weapons used to murder MANY children and devastate Yemen.
Saudi Arabia is disgusting.
America is worse.
25
The Saudis were counted on to make up the shortfall in oil after Nov 5th when Trump imposes sanctions on Iranian oil. So we mustn't upset the applecart over a little murder and dismemberment. Tel Aviv and Washington DEMAND a massacre in Iran. This is priority 1.
10
Remember that Trump visited Saudi Arabia just a few months after he was inaugurated as President in early 2017. It was his first trip to any country after he became President. It was a strange choice. Remember too that 15 of the 19 terrorists of 9/11 were Saudi terrorists, as was their leader Osama bin Laden. We need to know every single matter that holds Trump to this country and how he gains from it financially. Every single matter needs to be exposed.
22
Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, also served America's interest against Iran. Similar to how Trump is extolling Saudi Arabia. But look what happened to Saddam even though he kept Iran at bay and kept them in check until George W. Bush got rid of Saddam and allowed Iran to become the loudmouth of the Middle East talking trash.
1
As Americans we need to hold Donald Trump responsible for this murder of a journalist. He has set the stage for authoritarian desperate to do with they like.
6
Should we allow the government of a country with immense wealth to use criminal methods to dominate the world? That is the question. 9/11 was executed by Saudi nationals. Saudi government has funded the worldwide spread of Wahhabism which has resulted in the creation of the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan and elsewhere.
Is not our responsibility to bring Saudi Arabia under International Rule of Law? Buying oil from the Saudi's and selling them billions of dollars of military hardware is not a huge priority if they use their wealth for spreading jihad in the world. Promoting peace in the world is.
Killing Jamal Khashoggi with gruesome brutality is just the latest atrocity committed by the Saudis which they are trying to describe as rogue activity, not related to their government. Was that so? Fifteen agents, travelling by a chartered plane to the Saudi Consul in Turkey, do their criminal work in two hours, and immediately fly back out is hardly something that a mafia group or a rogue group can accomplish without the Saudi government’s cooperation. Can a rogue group actually exist under the highly autocratic crown prince Mohammad bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud? It requires incredulous imagination (or the lack of it) to believe this incredible fiction.
20
Saudi Arabia has given us fanatical wahabism which has unleashed religious terrorism all over the world; it has caused the world's greatest humanitarian crisis in Yemen (yes, worse than even South Sudan); It kidnapped the Prime Minister of Lebanon; has a terrible human rights record; and now this killing.
Yet we love their oil and money. What does America even stand for any more?
15
The Turkish government doesn't want to share that intel with us because they know trump will not only tell the Saudis but also blab it to the rest of the world.
10
Medieval barbarism. We will pay a moral price for our economic relationship with murderers and butchers.
20
why didn't he bring his own security detail? Would he have stepped foot into Saudi Arabia? Risked his life all for a piece of paper? people are calling for swift action. what exactly do they propose? trumps a bozo but any other president would be squirming too. the middle east stinks and is a no win situation.
6
I hope the New York Times will dig deeper to elucidate the numbers tangled up with this story. First, accounts of the actual arms sales figures vary. Is it $110 billion? Or actually $15.5 billion? Were these contracts negotiated by the Trump White House? Or did they originate in the Obama administration?
Above all, what are Trump's and Kushner's financial involvements with the Saudis? How much of their respective debts are held by Saudis? How much have Saudi parties (including the royal family) spent in Trump properties over the last two years? How many Trump Inc. condominiums have Saudis purchased? Did they pay above market value in any of these cases? All cash? Use shell companies? What is the current status of Kushner's balloon mortgage and ownership stake in 666 Fifth Ave?
I need more answers.
22
As cold and heartless as this might sound, perhaps he knew what might happen and sacrificed himself to bring heat on the Saudis.
3
Iran is sighted in so many posts as a orbital threat in the justification for the US maintaining its close and friendly relationship with Saudi Arabia. It’s a complex situation to be sure, military bases and lucrative arms sales aside. But how is it that the country (monarchy) who’s citizens perpetrated 911, created Osama Ben Laden, openly support Wahhabism, and where it is virtually illegal for a US citizen to travel freely in under penelty of death given such a preferred position? Can the Times take this historic moment to do its readers the service of some real 3 dimensional reporting in this most important subject?
7
President Trump says that he will have a final report on Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance only after the Saudis complete their own investigation into it. And his Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, after meeting with King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed, blithely told reporters: “They made a commitment to hold anyone connected to any wrongdoing that may be found accountable for that.”
The conclusion we can draw from this is that to Trump and Pompeo, the ample evidence produced by The New York Times, based on a thorough investigation by its reporters, and by the Turkish authorities, based on audio surveillance, are not at all credible. What the Saudis are going to come up with after their investigation is going to be more acceptable to them.
The reason why they refuse to accept the evidence produced by The Times and the Turkish authorities is obvious: The evidence points to Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia, as the actual culprit in this case. Don't they know that an investigation into this crime, conducted by the Saudi authorities, will be as laughable as one conducted by the Trump White House into the Trumpian business empire?
President Trump and his minions should know that the truth will out one day. The question they will have to answer on that day is: What made them act as apologists for murderous thugs in Saudi Arabia?
14
And where does Trump and Pompeo sit now? An economic loss cannot be used to accept murder. But, it has been by many presidents - Obama (NK, Saudi, China), Bush (Saudi, China), etc. etc. Going back to Nixon's visit to China - heralded as a significant diplomatic move. We have many governments around the world that murder their people, especially those that speak out against them, but we usually do not try to embrace them; except for Saudi, China, NK.
4
We were working together with literally the rest of the world to bring Iran back to the table as a more responsible player on the world stage, and distancing ourselves from a long and unseemly relationship with Saudi Arabia. We were closer to true energy independence than we've ever been - and guess what? Oil prices went down. Way down.
You want to see who Trump ingratiates himself with in a nice neat list? Who it is he most loudly and publicly defends?
It's everyone threatened by low oil prices and American energy independence, and that includes the financial institutions who hold trillions in loans to the energy industry.
7
Possible explanation about Khashoggi for the Saudi Prince; Borrowed from Shakespeare: "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" is an utterance attributed to Henry II of England, which led to the death of Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in 1170. While it was not expressed as an order, it caused four knights to travel from Normandy to Canterbury, where they killed Becket.
The phrase is now used to express the idea that a ruler's wish can be interpreted as a command by his or her subordinates.
11
@Russ Froneberger, no. The prince did it. It fits with his arresting members of the royal family, with kidnapping, for God's sake, a prime minister, and the detentions of dissidents aplenty at his hands. He is sending the message that he rules with a rod of iron and will not tolerate opposition. And like the dictator of Korea, who killed his own family members, like Putin the Poisoner, the Saudi is well liked by Trump. FOR these acts. These men "know how to get things done." When fear rules, this gang of tyrants will hold sway. Yes, it is what they want.
8
America is not great and it never will be great if Trump is President. Trump has fouled our reputation and our trustworthiness. Indeed, Trump has given license to all tyrants by declaring the press “the enemy of the people”. America, specifically Republicans have sold our souls for a “bowl of porridge”, for money. Only greed and fear and power guide our government. Gone is every ideal, all moral and ethical concerns are eschewed for money for a handful of what had been America.
14
To Trump the disappearance and likely torture/murder of Khashoggi translates to a potentially economic inconvenience, rather than an atrocious act of state sponsored terrorism against an innocent man exercising free speech. Trump fears economic retribution from the Saudis, including cancellation of a weapons deal and possibly oil extortion. The Saudis are going to remain enemies of Iran and it is in their interest to keep the US engaged in their fight with Iran. On the other hand, the Saudis need to keep their oil flowing for their own survival and they would hesitate to cut supplies for any but a short hiatus. Also, are they going to go to the Russians and Chinese for their weapons? Their present military is totally integrated with American technology, which would make it costly and inefficient to administer two different weapon systems. I doubt it that they are willing to do it. So besides some brief wrinkles in the near future, little else will happen of any long consequence. Bowing to the Saudis over this issue will have far more serious long term consequences.
For those of us old enough to remember we (the US) survived two crisis in the1970's, the oil crisis in the early decade and the energy crisis following the Iranian revolution in the latter decade. We could easily survive another one if needed. Of course Trump's plan to reinstitute sanctions against Iran may well make the crisis deeper. But this scenario is self inflicted by Trump's shredding of the Iran deal.
5
At some point, we need to ask ourselves where, exactly, we must draw the line when it comes to what constitutes permissible and impermissible behavior from our allies. Yes, the Saudis spend a great deal of money on weapons and that provides no small economic boon to the United States. But that economic boon is inextricably linked to supporting one of the least free societies on Earth and a humanitarian catastrophe in Yemen. Mr. Kashoggi's death, while horrific and tragic, represents just the smallest part of the moral compromise that we as Americans have made with relatively little examination. It is my hope, however, that this incident will bring to the foreground that which has long been overlooked and that we can have such a national reckoning of values.
12
If we hold the Saudis responsible and risk instability in the country and the whole area, it will be up to Trump and the Republicans to handle this instability.
Maybe he should handle it his way.
@sdavidc9, the man has wrecked our trade and other alliances. He spits on our friends and cuddles with our enemies. He imprisons children, destroys credibility of his appointments, demeans our intelligence agencies, calls our press enemies of the people. "His way?" The man is a real estate con man whose real skill lies in bluster and lies. Left to handle even more disaster, he would ladle more bluster and lies out for his adoring but demented fans, that's all. I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog, and you'd be well advised not to trust him to walk yours.
8
We tolerated lynchings for generations, and some of us thought them necessary to preserve public order. This is who we are, and many of us are satisfied with it. We like to pretend that we are not really so (and that we are changing), but this pretense has always been there too because it is part of being the way we are.
We still tolerate and excuse children going to bed hungry in the back seat of their parents' cars, or having to move every few months because their hard-working parents cannot keep up with the rent. We tolerate geezers spending their golden years worrying about how they will pay their medical bills and playing Russian roulette with their very expensive pills.
We are not about to destabilize the Saudi regime even though it would be a great favor to the Islamic world's moderates. After all, we gave them a pass on 9/11.
11
Where is Jared Kushner in all this?
8
I've only had time to read a few of the NYT picks, but have discerned a pattern that requires a response.
Of course Saudi's values are antithetical to our own. That's been true for the entirety of the US/Saudi relationship. What is also true is that the two countries have shared interests which are durable.
When national interests collide with values, we should engage in a robust debate about the relative importance of each. But let's not have a knee jerk reaction to Trump's initial reaction. He has many facts which are not in possession of the average NYT reader. If President Obama were still in office and had taken a similar approach, he would have been widely praised for his fact finding, methodical approach and avoidance of a rush to judgement.
Do we want to destabilize the Saudi government to the benefit of Iran and other bad actors? Or do we want to turn the other cheek? or is there a middle ground?
37
@DK is Iran really a "bad actor" relative to Saudi Arabia? I've never really seen a vigorous fact-based defense of our consistent alignment with Saudi Arabia over Iran. Iran should be a natural ally against Sunni extremism which is the brand of terrorism that affects us most directly. (and in fact has served as a de facto ally in Iraq and Syria) Meanwhile groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS would seem to derive most of their support from SA or others aligned with them.
And in Yemen, who would say are the bad actors?
I'm not trying to say that Iran is perfect or even that good along many dimensions. But we seem to constantly vilify Iran while always giving SA the benefit of the doubt when we should be re-considering our alignments.
6
@DK - don't pull the Obama comparison here, because the details and the times matter. Obama did more than any President in recent memory to divorce the US from Saudi Arabia's bad behavior on the world stage. He did not have past business dealings in his private life with high-ranking Saudis, nor would he have cited billions in arms sales as his reasoning for not rocking the boat. Trump earns most of the criticism he receives, and this is no exception.
7
“we share durable interests” with the Saudis.
We do not. Some share a very profitable relationship with the Saudis but for the American people and the rest of the world this is the most dangerous geopolitical miscalculation of modern times. The Saudi monarchy open support of Wahhabism, Osama Bin Laden and 911 make the durable interests of the house of Saud clear. The US/SA policy is governed by Israel which orchestrates the chaos it maintains in the Mid East to maintain control. Normalization with Iran - an imperfect but functioning democracy is better in every way than the myopic status quo.
5
These are the times of 'murderous assassins' Albert Camus wrote of. It has a chilling effect in all spheres, national and international.
6
I suspect the reaction from Trump would be different if the correspondent was from Fox news.
11
Putin does this every week. Nerve agents are his gruesome weapon of choice. Yet nobody raises a whimper. So don't expect anything to happen here. After all this Government is locking kids in cages.
10
“ As theSaudis and the Americans tried to put this crisis behind them...” a most sad apparent linkage.
5
We certainly need to give the Saudis time--time to get their lies in order and present them as alternative facts. Mr. Trump is well acquainted with this technique. In fact, he counts on the fact that many people have the peculiar mental quirk of accepting as reality only those things that they wish were true, rather than those which can be objectively demonstrated.
7
Yes, but there are "good people on both sides."
5
I am talking to you, Son. Yes you Son. As in SoftBank Son. Quit it. Unless you want to be remembered with the tyrants of the world by history. Money is not everything.
4
I'm ashamed that we spend so much money bombing innocent people in religious-civil wars. I'm even more ashamed that we sell arms to countries that do not share our values.
116
What is very disturbing is Khassoggi was an exiled, aging journalist fighting a war of ideas and words, hardly one about to storm the palace walls. Yet he was gruesomely and brazenly executed. This makes John Gotti and Kim Jung Un look like people you'd want to live next door to
7
Dissected alive! This no doubt is why the 15 men who flew in from Saudi Arabia along with a forensic expert and torture, had in their luggage a bone saw according to Michael Babarro of the NYT Daily. Given the blood soaked history of the Saudis it’s all just to believable.
9
The Nazis denied having gas chambers to kill Jews, gypsies and other "undesirables" during the Holocaust. What western democracy would have sold them military equipment to provide jobs for its workers?
Our administration should consider that.
9
@George F. Bass--In fact, you're wrong. US manufacturers did sell war materials to the Nazis throughout the WWII.
"For example, John D. Rockefeller Jr. owned a controlling interest in the Standard Oil corporation, but the next largest stockholder was the German chemical company I. G. Farben, through which the firm sold $20 million worth of gasoline and lubricants to the Nazis. And the Venezuelan branch of that company sent 13,000 tons of crude oil to Germany each month, which the Third Reich’s robust chemical industry immediately converted into gasoline. But business between the two nations was not limited to fuel sales – in addition, tungsten, synthetic rubber, and many different components for the auto industry were also being shipped across the Atlantic to the German Führer by Henry Ford. In particular, it is no secret that 30% of all the tires produced in his factories were used by the German Wehrmacht." https://www.globalresearch.ca/history-of-world-war-ii-americas-was-provi...
2
A botched investigation of ROGUE KILLERS? Rouge, like Sarah Palin? The Saudis meant to just cut his fingers off but the sword missed and beheaded him. The Saudis are worse than Trump and his minions which is saying a lot. Eighteen days, 18 days. Please vote to make AmeriKa blue like the booties and gloves of the Turkish forensic and investigation officers. I am shocked that they are allowed inside. Is not the Saudi Consulate Saudi territory? I hope that more is found to confirm this atrocity.
7
I may be in the minority, but I would like the tape or some sort of non-faked evidence heard by a member of the US government. Turkey is no ally of the US and just because they say something doesn't make it so. Also interesting to know that they have the Saudi Embassy bugged.
3
Where is Khashoggi's body? If the Saudi government is really interested in getting to the bottom of this, they would turn over the body for examination. Where the body is located and who has it would tell a lot about who was involved.
1
Where is the outrage of Evangelical Christians? Christians are not allowed to practice their religion or even build a church in Saudi Arabia.
17
The word transactional has entered the pundits vocabulary to describe Trump's reaction to this horrific event, clearly for no other reason than $elf-interest . I feel dread, nausea, depression, and rage at the realization we are now governed by monsters who could not care less about a human life.
11
Again, we are in upside down world. While Trump fights allies, he is unwilling to be frank with Saudi Arabia because he doesn’t want to jeopardize a big arms sale. So we are turning a blind eye to a violent government because we want to sell it bombs and missiles?
7
If a journalist seemed to have been murdered in a Saudi consulate building in the United States, would the Trump administration rely on the Saudi's investigation despite an obvious conflict of interest, or would American intelligence organizations be engaged as reliable authorities to sort out the truth? That this question cannot be dismissed as trivially rhetorical speaks volumes about the lack of authenticity behind the White House's reliance on Saudi self investigation, while ignoring damning evidence being published by the Turkish government.
10
Where is our president when we all really need him?
2
Same country responsible for 9/11 SA have horrified us again! We will never forget both crimes against humanity happened under Republicans.
7
From our government's reluctance to believe that the Saudis had anything to do with Mr. Kashoggi's death, you can infer: If a lot of money is at stake, who cares about one person's death, no matter how gruesome. Is this how we care about our foreign-born residents?
Shame on our President, his Secretary of State, and anyone else who wants us to believe that the King or his Crown Prince did not know about it. In an autocratic government like Saudi Arabia, a killing like this one would only take place with orders from the top.
9
<<Listen to music, he told them, as he donned headphones himself. That was what he did to ease the tension when doing such work, the doctor explained, according to the official describing the contents of the audio recordings.>>
How creepy. And this person is among the regime the trump administration – and the US – is in bed with.
Pompeo smiles and glad hands the crown prince as the horrific details come out; trump seeks to deflect the bad press regard his and Jared's new business partners.
We, as a nation, are in trouble if this is how its going to be.
12
The is disgusting! How does selling arms to a country that does this help our national security?
9
So you can put fuel in your car and drive to the grocery store… That’s what national securities about, Ha!
1
Does anybody wonder that the reason Turkey is not sharing its intelligence with the U.S. is because they do not trust the Trump administration?
13
It is a spineless, slithering coterie of politicians that are taking us to the precipice of moral ruin. We've lost an important voice, the passion-filled, eloquent, knowing voice of Mr. Khashoggi. Why are the president and senior members of this administration defending the indefensible? Cut the perpetrators off at the knees and let them suffer the consequences of rule-free behavior.
6
This is an act of terrorism by a rogue state. But, Saudi Arabia is not one of the Muslim states affected by the President's travel ban. Also, 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian-- but that country was protected by this country then, just as they are being protected now.
Who is benefitting financially from these horrific denials of human rights? I bow my head for this man who was killed for doing his righteous duty; and I bow my head for my country and what it was and still could be.
16
If Iran had done this, the Trump administration would be gearing up for war. This double standard shows the rest of the world to whom this fact is obvious that the USA is not the greatest nation on earth, but rather a boorish superpower.
15
"That reluctance suggests the Turkish government may be seeking to reach some accommodation with Saudi Arabia while avoiding a full rupture in relations with another important regional power."
Turkish government's actions in exposing the murder of Kashoggi by the Saudi dictatorship dependent on US military for its existence contradict that statement. Since the Turks have obviously bugged the Saudi Consulate if they wanted something from the Saudis, they would have presented to Saudis in private and threaten to expose them.
Of course, that may be exactly what happened. Saudi uses the Kurds against Syria, Iraq and Iran which strengthen the Kurds vs. Turkey. Saudis upped their support for Kurds vs. Turkey when Turkey sided with Qatar vs. Saudi. Turkey demanded Saudi's end support for the Kurds. Saudi's refuse and the Turks make them pay the price with Kashoggi.
Will Saudis now up their support for the Kurds in retaliation for the Turks revelations of the Kashoggi murder which has personally embarrassed the Saudi CEO?
3
Let's not fool ourselves, Trump has shown time and again in actions and in his words that he admires this type of "authoritarian" control.
11
It's a legitimate question why this one horrific killing stands out among all the slaughter in Yemen and the torture and killings of dissidents previously. In fact, it is all that death that made this recent dismembering a walk in the park for the Saudi hit squad.
This murder, it's gruesome details notwithstanding, is unique because it was only thinly veiled from our view in what appears to be an intentionally scripted show of force. MBS barely has sufficient cause to ascribe plausible deniability, and it is by design: show that he is willing to openly slaughter dissidents, intentionally leaving bread crumbs that lead to him that everyone knows are true but are denied nonetheless. It's the open lie that we all must accept, and it is the type of lying we have become inured to where political leaders blatantly lie and dissemble in an alternative virtual dramatic reality that parallels the real reality we really live in.
MBS knows he can act in both worlds simultaneously. He can murder in the real world and deny it in the dramatic world. Nowadays, it's not what happened, it's the telling of it that matters. The latter is how we billions come in contact with the event since none of us were present for the event. And when the Turks show us hard evidence, there will be a claim it is elective to believe it just like so many other ways we're allowed to express our liberty.
8
I want to the timeline for Mr. Khashoggi. Let’s go back to the weeks prior to the disappearance. Is it possible that agencies within the Trump administration were coordinating with the Saudi government?
10
I hope the New York Times will dig deeper to elucidate the numbers tangled up with this story. First, accounts of the actual arms sales figures vary. Is it $110 billion? Or actually $15.5 billion? Were these contracts negotiated by the Trump White House? Or did they originate in the Obama administration?
Above all, what are Trump's and Kushner's financial involvements with the Saudis? How much of their respective debts are held by Saudis? How much have Saudi parties (including the royal family) spent in Trump properties over the last two years? How many Trump Inc. condominiums have Saudis purchased? Did they pay above market value in any of these cases? All cash? Use shell companies? What is the current status of Kushner's balloon mortgage and ownership stake in 666 Fifth Ave?
I need more answers.
15
I’m waiting for Sarah Huckabee Sanders to enter the White House press room wearing an earphone and wielding a bone saw on the next briefing.
That will show the “fake news” journalists who’s really in charge.
14
From just this small sample of the Washington Post opinions, it really appears that Khashoggi, and perhaps the Post itself, has ever so carefully edged near the limits of a free press in a society ruled by a true monarch. If bin Salman got even a portion of the seething criticism leveled against President Trump - well....oh, I forgot.
He has.
So other than the gruesomeness of all of it, why is everyone so surprised at this kind of behavior coming from a young Islamic blue blood despot, all directed from a major media outlet. Yes, that is the world we live in today.
==================
"After more crackdowns, it's clear: Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman is acting like Putin"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/11/05/saudi-...
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"Saudi Arabia is creating a total mess in Lebanon"
=================
"With Ali Abdullah Saleh's death, Saudi Arabia is paying the price for betraying Yemen"
=================
"What Saudi Arabia can learn from ‘Black Panther’"
===============
"By blaming 1979 for Saudi Arabia’s problems, the crown prince is peddling revisionist history"
1
So on CNN Robert Baer, at about 11:45 EDT this morning, stated that he witnessed multiple people dying during rough interrogations, is anyone going to investigate those deaths?
8
Trump is the unapologetic equivalent and spokesperson for every despotic leader that exists. Could it be that he feels that he could share the same fate of some of the deceased victims if he chooses not to speak out truthfully and forcefully, but instead plays verbal chess about "being judged guilty until proven innocent" when the evidence of premeditated tortuous assassination stares him in the face.
2
People are surprised? America has always been an ethical cesspool...only caring about “human rights” when it serves some financial or strategic interest. What about the black people murdered by police in this country? What about the millions denied the right to vote right here in this country? Look in the mirror people. Look hard.
7
Sorry that’s a ridiculous comparison. First of all, more white men, almost twice as much are killed by police than black men. Secondly even the most egregious killings have to do with some aggressive interaction.
This was pre-meditated barbarism. End it is totally unfair to paint Police with one brush claiming let there out to kill black man. According to statistics all races are shot at at the same percentage as the crimes committed by that group. Of course I wouldn’t expect you to let facts get in the way of your opinion. Acting like Donald Trump is not a virtue.
3
@Truie 1. Most countries make citizenship a prerequisite to voting. 2. LEO's have a right to protect their own lives, and there are many more white people murdered by blacks in the US than there are blacks murdered by LEO's. 3. It the US is so awful, why haven't you left?
1
@Mick
Could you present those crazy statistics?
So if whites are 30% criminal (whatever that could possibly mean), 30% of whites get shot?
"even the most egregious killings have to do with some aggressive interaction" - you mean like alking with a cane or being a kid with a toy gun? Or standing in your own appartment while being black and getting shot because you have a "threatening silhouette"? That is certainly overtly aggressive.
Everyday MBS's supposed order of military goodies goes up another billion or so...trying to scare workers that they will lose their jobs if djt calls MBS out on his murder of Khashoggi.This man has no bottom.
8
by ordering this gruesome "code red" on jamal , de facto president john f kelly stifled and intimidated his critics at the WP and NYT into scared, submissive silence. not too many reporters crave beheading and dismemberment. well played, general kelly!
4
Trump, already the worlds biggest liar and fool, will lose whatever shreds of credibility he has left if he insists on being the Saudi mouthpiece for their absurd denials. And by extension the US will also lose all credibility.
Trumpers, are you paying attention? AT ALL? do you enjoy your "president" being the tool of the Saudis after they murder someone?
12
In this comment section, I saw a post where someone asked, "Where are the facts?". Well, here are your facts: Turkey has willingly put out as much information as they can find regarding the murder of Mr. Khashoggi in almost real time and Trump has gone as far as to say he is not willing to give up a $100MM arms deal with Saudi Arabia to deal with this situation. All of that is either in audio, video, or in print.
So, unless that commentator has quickly become a forensic investigator with access to every single embassy for every country across the world, those are your facts. And let's not forget how quickly this country went after those that beheaded Daniel Pearl in 2002, the Wall Street Journal reporter. The same action should be taken here, not once (or after) the arms deal is done. By the way, who does that arms deal benefit, anyway? Certainly, not the "where are the facts" commentator.
8
Stop the sale of arms from the US to Saudi Arabia right now. To not do so is tantamount to condoning the assassination of a journalist.
6
To those who wonder why less attention has been paid to the deaths in Yemen than to the atrocity perpetrated in Istanbul, there's a one-word answer:
Syria.
The monumental scale of the mass murders, tortures, and extermination campaigns including the use of artificially-created famines as well as banned chemical weapons (that supposedly we had watched being put beyond use) have resulted in a dreadful black hole of indifference, that has now engulfed Yemen.
Before Americans acquired, through a deliberate Russian attack on our political system, this Trump who lies 24/7, we were already repeating quite a few of Assad's lies & Lavrov's lies about Assad's (and Russia's) intentions.
We allowed the manipulation of casualty numbers to go unchallenged. We watched the rewriting of bad news into something slightly less harrowing. We accepted being told that "Putin had won."
He actually hasn't, if you study the facts. War rages on, in Syria, in Ukraine, and now in Yemen.
Putin would like to think he has also won in the USA.
We will soon know.
But when Americans see their own country being shredded by operatives of the Kremlin, live, in primetime, night after night, there's just no room left to weep for Yemen.
The torture-murder of JK entangles another JK: Jared Kushner. It is only because of Jared's closeness to MBS that this horror has all of our American attention.
And did you know Donald used to party lavishly with Adnan Khashoggi, Jamal's debauched uncle?
5
Thank God Trump can not control this story per the usual tweets and self-serving analyses; the whole world is outraged and watching our great country for signs of political and moral leadership. What kind of nation have we become if we let the prez endorse despotism in the name of business opportunities? Or accept his cover of an outrageous assassination perpetrated on a man clearly in the US for political asylum?
For honest reporting I don’t even need to go to my favorite “failed media” outlets that he spends so much air time trash-talking; I can read any global paper I want (excepting Saudi Arabian) and hear their same hue and cry.
I wish I had a nickel for each time I call this POTUS an EMBARRASSMENT to our great country. I’d be an honest to
goodness ‘self-made’ trillionaire.
7
With Trump siding with the Saudi barbaric rulers all over jobs and money for war products all of Trumps supporters who support him and the GOP have this act on their plate now . Trump needs to cancel the deal he made and ignore these criminals instead of supporting.
3
So Saudi Arabia is investigating how Saudi Arabia murdered Jamal Khashoggi. The murderer investigating the murder, I'm sure we will really get the facts from that investigation.
It's been reported Kushner is so connected with the Crown Prince, but the guy never takes any questions in public. When was the last time we heard Jared speak? He runs away from any accountability like a coward.
5
@infinityON
Marionettes do not speak on their own. They are controlled from above.
1
What DJT, Pompeo et al say now enjoy the thin veil afforded by the unreleased audio from inside the consulate. I am disgusted to wish for the release of such gruesome detail. However given DJT, Pompeo et al chumminess with the Saudi's there are few other alternatives for resolving Mr Khashoggi's disappearance.
Khashoggi's murder is an atrocity for which MBS must be punished by all legal means available to the US, and other nations.
What was the point of Mr. Pompeo's visit if he did not deliver a tough message to MBS? Trump and his cabinet must speak up and demand justice. If they fail to do so then they are complicit in this coverup.
The administration must also sanction MBS for what is happening in Yemen-millions being killed with US weapons and starved to death.
2
@CJ, the lawmakers are crying budget deficit. Each cabinet member has been asked to cut 5% in their spending. The Saudi's finance and fund our economy big time, without their spending their oil money on us, we will be in deeper deficit. Historically America has had no problem taking anyone's money, occasionally they will scream rogue and label nations as enemies or axes of evil - Cuba, North Korea, Iran etc etc...meanwhile conducting business with all other autocrats who are not these above mentioned countries. Double talk, hypocrisy. Basically no moral or ethical compass that guides our country. Money greed power guides our country.
1
@CJ "What was the point of Mr. Pompeo's visit if he did not deliver a tough message to MBS? "
Mainly to LOOK LIKE he was delivering the message.
1
The next step must be taken by Congress.
Question: Is the United States complicit in war crimes against the civilian population of Yemen? The United States provided the precision munitions that enabled the murder of the school children on the bus in Yemen. And, United States military personnel provided the refueling in flight that enabled the Saudi pilots in American built military jets to execute their mission.
This is a morality question for the American public and should be considered as such by the American press and other news media to the same degree as the murder of a single individual, Mr. Khashoggi.
5
"Mr. Pompeo and the Trump administration had appeared to accept at face value the promises "
Name names:
Donald Trump, not "Trump administration" when referring to words from his own mouth or published by him personally on social media.
"But Mr. Trump’s comments suggested that the Turks have also declined to share their evidence with United States intelligence agencies,...usually close partners. That reluctance suggests the Turkish government may be seeking to reach some accommodation with Saudi Arabia"
The more obvious conclusion is that Trump is not to be trusted. There is no shred of evidence to show he can be.
"He noted again, as he has repeatedly since Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance, that the kingdom was spending billions of dollars on American weapons."
Murder for profit?
South and Central America entities also buy quantities of American weapons, causing violence that drives people from those countries to seek refuge in the US. So we punish the refugees, not the weapons smugglers, since Trump can hand the refugees' children off to child traffickers who sell their human livestock on Wall Street, for-profit human warehouses/prisons that many in Congress own stock in and profit by -- the greater the caged population, the richer they are, like the ones with stock in weapons
With the Saudi terrorists, it's "You can buy US complicity on torture and killing with weapons purchases"
But no collateral human trafficking profits? They're laughing at us! Bad deal!
4
Mr. Trump: Man-up and deal with this in a strong and public manner. Protect your own honor and the honor of the US government.
1
@uke striker You’re actually asking our bullying, semiliterate, draft dodging, tax cheating, sexual abusing “commander” to man up? If he does, it’ll be a first time in his shallow, selfish life. He has NO honor to lose & the longer he & the GOP are calling the shots, this country’s honor will continue to erode.
6
@ Uke Striper Surely you are not addressing the suggestions to Donald Trump. There is no 'man up' in him. Or honor. That's one reason thst half the country has been freaking out for the last 2 years. This is a human being who's without character or moral compass! Scarey!
4
I wonder what the Trump administration would be saying about Khashoggi’s murder if Iran was responsible? I know the answer is obvious but what should be troubling to all of us is thinking there should be a difference in who did the murdering.
2
I love the concept that their fall back explanation is that they only planned to kidnap Kashoggi not to kill him. Do they not know that kidnapping is a very serious crime? Used to be a capital crime in many states. I bet it's still a capital crime in Turkey, not to mention Saudi Arabia.
BTW the Saudi in Saudi Arabia is a family name, i.e., the whole country belongs to the Saud family. What a lovely "ally." And it is an ally of Trump and the Bushes and various others since they get to make lots of money there. They don't get to make money in Iran. You don't suppose that could have something to do with their different attitudes toward these two countries?
7
this is what happens when the state controls the news when it decide what is news that is can be reported and what is "fake news" first rule of establishing a dictatorship.
one group in America I have the greatest contempt for? those that don't vote.who choose to be unaware of what may happen here or have an opinion but are too lazy to express it by wandering in to a voting booth
2
When will somebody--anybody--other than the Turkish government have an opportunity to listen to/view the evidence?
I wouldn't put any of what's alleged past MBS, but I also can't throw the government of Turkey very far....
2
it's on TV in in turkey
@Juvenal451 I don't understand why we have only verbal reports about the alleged audio tape. Why doesn't the Turkish government take it to the UN or NATO?
1
Pompeo -- give the Saudis a few days to investigate fully -- translation: give the Saudis a few days to come up with some kind of semi-credible story, enough to continue our lucrative relationship without too much criticism...
2
Khashoggi was probably working on a story regarding collusion and underhand dealings between the royal family and Trump and Kushner. There’s much more to this story than what has come to light.
1
When a journalist or dissident is murdered by an authoritarian regime, by no means should his or her death be considered insignificant. It doesn’t matter if Saudi Arabia is an ally, they orchestrated the torture and murder of a lawful U.S. resident. The U.S. has excused so many violations committed by the Saudis but the fact that they would willingly execute an American critic is simply abhorrent and unconscionable. There needs to be severe retribution against the KSA for this wretched crime. Sitting by and letting the KSA walk without proper reproach sends the message that the U.S. will never always be there to punish rights abusers and that we simply don’t care. Women, Shias, and activists of all backgrounds have been arrested, tortured and in rare cases, as in the story of Nimr al-Nimr, executed. This country’s job is to promote human rights and democracy abroad, and sitting silently while the Saudi regime jails and tortures activists under the guise of denigrating the Islamic doctrine will hurt both not just the U.S., but the rest of the free world who care more about arms deals than the sanctity and health of human life.
4
Our government has become complicit in the attempt to deny and bury this murder of a U.S. person and I am disgusted by the lack of adherence to the ethical standards that the United States ordinarily holds.
What I see missing in coverage of this case is a discussion of the catalog of physical punishments that, if am correct, the Saudi Government still practices for crimes or did until recently. It would explain more readily the easy available presence of a forensic doctor with a bone saw at this execution of a Saudi citizen who had been declared not just a dissident, but an opponent by the Saudi government. When Mr. Trump keeps referring to the fact that Mr. Kashoggi is not a U.S. citizen, but a Saudi citizen, only a U.S person or resident, he is in my mind echoing the Saudi narrative that they can do with their
citizens what they like, that there is no universal code of human rights.
5
If any of the allegations regarding the disappearance of Mr. Khashoggi prove to be true, we can no longer continue a business relationship, or any relationship, with a country that allows its citizens to be eliminated in such ways.
The United States has committed many heinous acts in our history, in the name of our government, but one might be excused for not accepting beheading as a means of dealing with people we disagree with in this day and age.
2
We have known what Donald Trump was made of all along. Why are so many people surprised at his actions now when it comes to Prince Mohammed? It's in Trump's best personal financial interests to support and protect the Prince from justice, just as he has done with Putin. Manipulating the American people to defend him is just a catalyst for Trump to succeed in achieving great wealth for himself and his family. Who would have ever thought it would be so easy.
3
High probability Khashoggi killed in the consulate. Supported with evidence soon. Who made the command will be unknown, however definitely Saudi involvement.
What makes this odd, is that it was done in an obvious manner, really, to do it in a consulate? The possibilities and what we could see happen next:
1. If MBS made the command, he wanted to make an example out of Khashoggi and believed he could get away with it. However I don't see him being careless enough to have it done after he enters a Saudi consulate. Surely they're not that moronic? So its possible in this case someone else made a decision to do it in the consulate rather than following him to his accommodation/kidnapping for example. So the command was made by MBS but the execution of the mission was not to plan.
2. MBS wants the killing done in the consulate, knows it will be a shock to the world, places evidence and blame on more "corrupt dissidents" within the kingdom that he wanted to remove, executes the 15, hero. However this seems like a risky messy and unnecessary process to remove people from government, just do the "they were corrupt" thing.
3. Someone else within the Kingdom made the command in order to frame MBS as retribution. High up in command. Most likely scenario IMO due to the obviously flawed execution.
Definitely next, MBS places the blame on someone else/other people in the Kingdom, the 15 involved will be executed and no one will ever know for sure who made the command. Life goes on.
1
Many reasons are given here for why Mohammed Bin Salman and his murderous gang were afraid of what Jamal Khashoggi had to say and, therefore, decided to silence him for good. But the reasons are mostly trivial and could have not threaten the crown prince, who has been busy making himself "the man to be king", by removing "competitors" and oppositions in the country.
One key reason, which for some reasons, has not received enough attention, is that Mr. Khashoggi was in touch with several royal family members who were seized by the crown prince agents, tortured, and forced to sign away part of their wealth. Some of them were/are leaving in Europe and Mr. Khashoggi was able to communicate with them freely.
One has to suspect strongly that his communications were monitored by some countries and, as a sign of friendship and/or cooperation, were passed to the crown prince. Those countries, or the individuals, involved in that are equally responsible for this murder.
Through his contacts, Mr. Khashoggi knew exactly what went on in the Ritz Hotel, where the detainees were kept. That includes details of the killing of one individual by the crown prince security team.
The fact that Mr. Khashoggi was interested in the details of Ritz Hotel interrogations and the killing there must have been alarming to those involved. They were suspecting that he is either working on a book or a major article for Washington Post. That is why he was dangerous and needed to be silenced.
7
@Eddie B.
"living in Europe" not "leaving in Europe". My mistake. Sorry about that.
1
Mr. Khashoggi was a journalist. Trump doesn't care for journalists. Trump cares for money, money, and more money. That the Saudis murdered a man because they didn't like what he wrote about them probably tickles Trump's funny bone to no end. I notice that the GOP, the Ghastly Obnoxious Parody party, hasn't said much either.
They won't let a murder stand in the way of selling arms to a country that denies its citizens the right to dissent or expose the truth about life in Saudi Arabia. These are the same people who regularly support the death penalty, pretend to value life (until it's born), and think that sexual harassment is fine until it happens to them or a member of their family.
13
Killing Jamal Khashoggi is not reality TV. And surveillance evidence was not released immediately - that day or the next. There has been plenty of time for evidence fabrication - and fabrication in endemic in the Middle East. Reporters and pundits who don't have personal knowledge of the provenance as well as the content of purported evidence should be very cautious in their pronouncements - as should politicians whose relationship with truth is questionable. Now, at a time when this country needs a voice we can trust, we have leaders who can't seem to speak more than three sentences without either lying or saying "Fake news!" The public simply must be aware of this - as well as possible inflation of the importance of arms sales and other trade with this region to US economy. Understand - Turkey and Saudi Arabia may be allies, but neither is a friend of the US. Both have their own ideas about individual right, civil rights, and rectitude in public office - and none of these more than vaguely resemble what most US citizens regard as ours. All goes to show the wisdom of CARLABFAD, the acronym for doing a background check - where the first two letters stand for Character and Associates - and the importance of doing background checks skeptically and in depth. Background checks on both our leaders and who we choose to pal around with on the world stage.
6
Our current government will not condone the actions of despots as it might get in the way of business dealings. We as Americans in November can show the world that we value human rights over money. We must come together on this or have we truly lost our moral resolve.
5
Here are two takes on what happened here. The first is from Pat Robertson, the Trump-supporting minister. He said: "let's not risk $100 billion worth of arms sales".
The second is from Ted Lieu, Democrat in the House of Representatives from California. He said:" remember when Jesus said it is okay to deal with murderers as long as you make a profit? Me neither."
22
A denial by the Saudi Royal family about their involvement is like Trump denying he cheats on his taxes.
Likewise, a Saudi internal investigation is like Trump's accountant doing a tax audit for the IRS.
9
Today, a major Spanish newspaper reported that the Turks produced the tape of the alleged interrogation/murder but Mr. Pompeo declined to listen to it. No comment.
Iit was also reported that $100 million was paid by the Saudis to the Trump Administration the same day that Secretary Pompeo met with the Saudi prince. No wonder he was all smiles and pleasanteries in the footage of such a meeting!
As with Russia, all that matters to Trump is his continued ability to make money from his personal relationships with criminals and tyrants. How low has this country fallen! Shame on us, and let's remember in November.
15
"He that lieth down with Dogs,shall rise up with fleas".
The flea population has to reproduce itself quickly. There are so many "Dogs" involved in the barbaric murder of Mr. Jamal
Khashoggi, that there are not enough fleas to do their job. Our President alone requires so many.
I pray for Mr. Khashoggi, his loved ones and for our country.
9
Seeing Mike Pompeo smiling and shaking hands with the murderer made me sick.
23
It's so easy to play America like a violin when somebody stupid is at the helm.
14
When is enough, enough. Millions of people around the world suffer, are oppressed, are denied freedom and a way to improve their lot and that of their children, all sacrificed to benefit a few wealthy/powerful countries. It's a horrendous status quo that benefits few and harms most.
Isn't it time to say no more. True, it will be an enormous amount of work to unpick many a Faustian pact and come up with new ways of doing business in an ethical, humane manner, to stop excusing heinous crime and brutality as the cost of doing business, stop marketing it as 'needs be' for safety/security. It may take some small sacrifices from powerful, wealthy countries and citizens, but none as great as those who have suffered for centuries in a cycle of violence– initiated, perpetrated and supported by unethical business, greed and the power hungry. We can still have capitalism, freedom, democracy, a vibrant economy and fulfilled lives without denying others.
I hope it won't take another world war to stun us to our senses, to realize that sacrificing a large part of humanity for our own well-being doesn't work in the long run. It perpetuates a cycle of violence, the winners are a handful of people who keep taking more, find more ways to deny human dignity, all to shore up and protect their position.
Read the UN Charter, remember why it was created.
It is still an ideal worth pursuing.
3
This developing story is as much about the on-going repressive regime in Saudi Arabia as it is about Trump cohort's attack on truth and diplomacy among our actual allies. Let's ask if/what interest the executive branch had in alignment with a call for the murder of this journalist. Connections about the Saudi kingdom and Trump's cohort are complex; it's not enough to ask will Trump admonish them in international relations. Ask: did he have an interest that aligned with their leadership?
The same goes for the shallow treatment of the findings in the Kavanaugh FBI report. Why should Americans have taken Mark Judge and Dr. Ford's friend as credible and/or voices to be believed over Dr. Ford? The interests of those in power now were sure served by dismissive hierarchy in a swift, no-doubt treatment of the FBI inquiry.
3
Trump excuses his relations with the Saudis, despite the country's lack of democracy and abuse of human rights. When will journalists challenge him to explain his rejection of relations with Cuba? Oh, Obama opened Cuba, and Cuba doesn't invest in his real estate holdings.
6
And why do journalists go in there and giggle when he says something stupid like “do you know if the FBI is investigating.” Julius have to stop being obsequious around this diabolical clown.
What was the music that accompanied this horror?? As a musician I feel desecrated and disgusted that somehow the Saudi’s orchestrated a soundtrack to this travesty. We are all Jamal.
10
It is obvious that the Administration and its congressional cronies have replaced human rights with economic opportunity as this country’s moral compass. I am disgusted by the lack of conscience and compassion that our elected officials have demonstrated in the wake of Jamal Khashoggi’s murder. I am angered by the collective silence of our own intellectual and spiritual leaders, whose lack of willingness to openly condemn and challenge this government’s statements, practices and policies reveals a sickening decline in social morality. Are they afraid the same thing will happen to them as happened to Khashoggi if they speak out against injustice? Has this country sunk that low?
251
@Resist The answer to your question is YES.
Saudi Arabia “has been a very important ally,” Mr. Trump said. He noted again, as he has repeatedly since Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance, that the kingdom was spending billions of dollars on American weapons.
Yes, of course.
The important ally- we sometimes forget that it was the Saudis that killed over three thousand Americans one day. If their plans had succeeded, thousands more would have died.
We forget they were an ally when held us for ransom during the oil embargo.
With allies like that, I'm not sure we need enemies.
11
All the available evidence suggests that the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi's gruesome cold-blooded murder was a well contemplated conspiracy hatched in the Saudi royal court and executed by the royal guards. Curiously, Trump's response to the Khashggi murder episode simply mirrors the lies being repeated by the government of Saudi Arabia, and lacks any serious concern.
11
Susan Collins will eventually deliver a 45 minute soliloquy on the floor of the Senate arguing that no witnesses came forward and and thorough investigation provided no evidence.
26
Nothing this president does can surprise me anymore. He looks at everything as to how it impacts his business and finances. This is why it is so critical to separate ones financial interests when becoming president. Look at the countries he has done business with and you will see the countries he favors....Russia and Saudi Arabia. He is using the office to increase his wealth.
It will take years for us to recover from the damage he has done.
11
NYTimes journalists: "Whether Mr. Khashoggi was killed before his fingers were removed and his body dismembered could not be determined."
Answer: his fingers were cut off when he was still alive, for those fingers were used to write articles that the Crown Prince did not like so they began by cutting off his fingers.
The dismembering part must have come after his death I guess, for I don't know of any Human who will dismember someone who is alive and breathing.
I can't get the image of Mr. Khashoggi head being cut off from my mind every time I read one of these articles.
Are we in 2018 or in 1018? This is barbarism at the highest level. Whoever will seat or stand next to that Crown Prince should be reminded what Prince Salman did.
18
RIP Khasoggi. Our thoughts are with you, your fiancée, family, friends and colleagues. It is a sad day in America when the very democratic values we uphold and value in people like you are being trampled on by a president and his spineless cronies, to advance their own ends. Trump et al will fall hard and shamefully, while your name will live on for having been an honest guiding light for the rest of us. Yours was the voice of truth, and unfortunately we have a despotic lying president with a history of allying with his own ilk, and covering up or destroying evidence. Hopefully, there are some upstanding citizens left in our government who can speak out half as honestly as you did, so that you can be laid to rest, and so that we can remember you— along with all who are complicit in this outrage.
11
Where is the Transcript of this event? I don't see or hear one so why am I to believe the "facts"in this article. All this frenzy no facts. I am sure something happened and probably something bad but how is it that the news is shaping this conversation in this manner. How about a little fact and journalism and less hard speculation and opinion.
I want to know what happened and what is next, so far nothing i can hang my hat on.
You mean nothing you can hang your “make America great hat on” don’t you. Ask your president for facts, I’m sure you’ll be satisfied.
2
I am sure that you are first on the list of people that the Turkish government will release the tapes to because nothing really happened unless you know it personally. Right?
3
Why was Mr. Khashoggi interrogated? His only reason for going to the consulate was to obtain "papers" -- a birth certificate? -- needed for a marriage license. Without a reason to interrogate him, how could the interrogation have gone wrong?
Did Mr. Khashoggi have any reason to fear for his safety? If so, why did he walk into the trap? He was not naïve.
Were we misled into believing that Crown Prince Mohammad was a reformer who would modernize the House of Saud?
I'm sure that these questions will be explored. I'm waiting.
4
Assigned as a quote from Stalin: 'The death of one person is a tragedy, but the death of one million is a statistic' is practiced by the old and the current Empire and their allies. The number of wars and destruction imposed by the current US Empire and their allies including Saudi Arabia in the last few decades became statistics. 'The mind around thousands of deaths becomes an abstraction of geopolitics, economics, conflict dynamics - of statistics.' Murdered journalist, like Mr. Khashoggi became a tragedy. Is this the collapse of compassion? Will there be any tipping point?
4
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"
Hammurabi's Law was one the great advances in the moral history of mankind. It is still widely applied today as, for example, the death penalty for capital murder. There is mounting evident that Mr. Ben Salman ordered the death and dismemberment of Mr. Kashoggi. If the evidence becomes overwhelming, the United States should send a military team to capture and kill Mr. Ben Salam. Morally, he is no different from Osama Bin Laden.
6
@Diogenes
An updated version, thousands of years later.
"An eye-for-eye leaves the world blind"
1
Send back the $100,000,000! It is completely Shameful, outrageously insulting to our nation and complicit of Trump to take such money. We the people are not Buying the Trump/Saudi story. I hope this brings down the house of Saud and Trump together. Total corruption to the core. They finally went too far.
9
"But Mr. Trump’s comments suggested that the Turks have also declined to share their evidence with United States intelligence agencies"
Strange suggestion, in that this assumes that (1) the Trump pays any attention to the U.S. intelligence agencies and (2) the Trump's comments can ever be taken to given insight into useful facts.
Clearly, nothing can be allowed to interfere with the presidential revenue stream generated by Saudi Arabian interest in Trump hotels and properties.
2
Meanwhile one of the agents involved in the killing died in a mysterious car crash back in SA. Coincidence? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7524068/jamal-khashoggi-execution-squad-ki...
6
when you have openly declared that "the media is the enemy of the people" , why do we pretend to be shocked when murders happen. They have had the permission of the american president
11
I can think of more colorful epithets to describe the individuals involved in this most heinous and disgusting state-sanctioned high crime, but I can settle for “ghouls.” Contemptible, disgusting ghouls.
5
Shakespeare said it best of MBS 400 years ago:
Macbeth Act V, Scene 1:
LADY MACBETH:
Out, damned spot! out, I say!
What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our power to account?
-- Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him.
LADY MACBETH:
-- What, will these hands ne'er be clean?
Doctor Go to, go to; you have known what you should not.
Gentlewoman: She has spoke what she should not, I am sure of that: heaven knows what she has known.
LADY MACBETH:
Here's the smell of the blood still:
all the perfumes of Arabia
will not sweeten this little hand.
Oh, oh, oh!
6
One difference:Macbeth and his lady display tortured consciences. I see no evidence that anyone connected with this incident has a conscience.
2
The Turks have shown in the past that they can be smart and play the game of "international intrigue" as well as anyone else. They will never give out all the information they have. They will keep some details in their back pocket, to make sure that those involved - which may not be limited to Saudi Arabia - do not suddenly turn around pointing finger at them.
They know that they have little control over the Western media and, those who do, can, and most probably will, plant stories implicating them. In short, they need to protect themselves, in case someone decide that the offense is the best defense, and start attacking them.
1
Will The Turks declare war with Saudi Arabia regards this evident murder of their national over this? If so, then” the USA military, industrial, Congressional complex” will have to decide which one to keep supplying weapons, munitions to? Or it’s a win, win supplying both dictatorships....Interesting!
2
Trump has demeaned the office of the presidency by not forcefully condemning the torture and murder of Khashoggi by Saudi agents. He has to know that15 Saudi agents equipped with bone saws were directed to commit this murder by the highest level of the Saudi royal family and could not have been done without the approval of MBS. Instead Trump and Pompeo try to provide cover for MBS with Trump's outlandish comments about rogue killers and Pompeo's gleeful laughing with MBS instead of severely admonishing him that the U.S. will not tolerate such behavior.
We need Congress to use the Magnitsky Act to provide sanctions on the Saudis for this horrendous killing of a U.S. based journalist who had the courage to criticize the Saudis. We need to restore American moral leadership. Surely Trump will not do so as his moral compass was broken and abandoned long ago.
5
"After meeting the previous night with King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed, Mr. Pompeo told reporters in Riyadh: “They made a commitment to hold anyone connected to any wrongdoing that may be found accountable for that. Whether they are a senior officer or official, they promised accountability.”... so, the murderer makes a commitment to hold himself accountable.... the US aids and abets that narrative because the murderers are buying our weapons; sounds like a vaudeville comedy skit, if the theme in and of itself were not so gruesomely repugnant... like watching a video of an ISIS beheading... does our current support of Saudi Arabia imply that if ISIS buys our weapons, we will condone their beheadings as well?
"But the flow of leaks ceased in more recent days as diplomatic steps to address the matter escalated: King Salman of Saudi Arabia called Mr. Erdogan and sent a high-level delegation".... well that does not imbue me with confidence that Erdogan is not dealing in his own self-interest in this mater... I do however still have faith in our intelligence agencies to ferret out the truth because ultimately, they too are accountable to the voters whose interests a free press assures.
3
I keep noticing that there is one sentence and one sentence only to the effect that Mr Khasoggi and the president of Turkey were friends.Why not follow up on this important point?
1
Oh, little things. Like the bagatelle that that doesn’t make chopping a guy up, slowly, okay.
1
Genius! This is now my third comment for this story? Maybe it's the second. The story has remained 'fresh' for at least 24 hours now. I've reread it so many times I can spot the updates with no trouble. Genius!
1
With the help of the worldwide media MSB made a statement that this is how to modernize his country. And with the backing of our president he did it all with impunity. We were bought and sold. Our rights are nothing to such a monster.
Now our so-called Secretary of State acts his part dutifully. Don't worry in time something else will occur to distract us and then all is well.
4
Remember our outrage over Jihadi John and his cohort performing public ritualized, gruesome beheadings for the world to see. Eventually JJ got his due and was dispatched. Now it's time for us to demand THE SAME. Every other word out of the lips of Pompeo and Prez is about our economic ties, arms deals, buying real estate on fifth avenue. This investigation must be international, multi-national, and sent on to the international criminal court in the Netherlands (which we no longer recognize). Just how low can we go as a nation represented by corrupt, self serving officials?
7
Trump: the amoral Presidency that destroyed the US membership among the international community in a blistering short period of time.
Trump is proving the baby boomer generation to be the worst generation in US History and likeli the end of the US Century.
The US is quickly deteriorating into a banana republic as Trump ruins and destroys US Credibility with out allies.
7
There is STRONG evidence that the Saudis bankrolled 9/11, yet we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's face it: money talks and the Saudis have been "winning" over the US for a while now. When are we going to do something about it?
The more we learn about how much other countries are interfering in our country, the more we need to move to fix our vulnerabilities. It's clear our elected officials are motivated by money and power, not by what's right.
4
Why is Turkey, a brutal dictatorship, taking the lead in this investigation? Where is the United States? Easy answer: Trump is in bed with the Saudis and he is more than happy to let someone else do what he's supposed to be directing. And where are Republican legislators? Another easy one: With their heads in the sand, cowering in fear of crossing their leader.
7
When the leader of the free world declared the media to be an enemy of the people he created an atmosphere that made this atrocity possible.
12
We are losing our very humanity...
6
Still some confusion at CNN and elsewhere on the details:
1: 'Why would they want to kill him?'
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/11/656682211/why-saudi-arabias-government-fe...
He was the leading voice of opposition to MbS, representing the primary alliance of residual resistance inside and outside the Kingdom.
2: 'Tranquilizer / abduction gone wrong?'
No, the torture was directed by a surgeon with a bone saw brought for the purpose. 'Tranquilizer' more like Sodium Pentothal.
Cutting the fingers off more like gruesome symbolic punishment for writing, plus supplement to Pentothal.
And no way he could be left alive without fingers. Cutting head off standard extreme Sunni punishment, as practised by jihadis and their Saudi state sponsors.
As for disposal, the 'toxic substances' found by Turkey might play a role.
8
Trump supporters whether rich, poor, educated or not have one thing in common. They totally ignore the facts about what this administration is doing to our country regarding human rights and morality. They can deny this all they want and rationalize their views but the bottom line is that they have enabled Trump and his minions to continue to do their dirty work.
13
Trump has religion but himself, no God but money and no legitimacy as president no matter how much the right wish for it.
7
The U.S inhumanity is showing. Please cover it up better. The despicable act of Saudia Arabia and the lack of the inquest of information by the "Leader of the Free-World" is gut-wrenching.
Where is the outspokenness for such atrocities? Rather, belittling a Senator that proved him wrong took more precedence in his world.
The world is watching keenly on how the U.S. handles the monstrosities of Saudia Arabia's acts against its activists; the world is watching to see if money comes before morals.
7
The Trump administration is too corrupt to investigate this murder.
The fact that Khashoggi was exiled from Saudi Arabia in 2016 for criticizing Trump as "inconsistent" is mind-boggling.
This needs to be investigated by another country, Amnesty International, or some entity with some credibility. Trump just told Americans that he is for sale, as if we didnt know.
8
Khashoggi‘s assassination is a horrific incident which this administration is failing miserably to address. Thanks to the Times and others for uncovering and reporting the facts as they become available.
But there is an aspect to this that has not received much attention and which remains deeply puzzling. Why did Khashoggi travel to Turkey in the first place and why did he visit the Saudi Embassy there? Did he fear for his safety? Here is a guy who, by all accounts, had been close to the Saudi regime - the mainstream - as a journalist - who strayed to some extent in the latest iteration of his career at the Washington Post. But he was not widely viewed as a radical or extremist. What was he working on? Why did the Saudis apparently view him as such a grave threat that they would commit or endorse such a gruesome crime? Was he acting strictly as a journalist or were there other secret entanglements involved? Was he about to reveal some deep dark secret? Foment a revolution to oust the Saudi regime?
These questions require answers if we are to ever fully understand what happened. The answers will not excuse the conduct but they will shed more light on the situation.
4
If Congress had any moral compass it would put Nikki Haley under oath and find out what she knew and why she resigned abruptly the morning after.
8
@Pat Blue Ribbon. Yes! I have said this. And you are the first person I have seen that has posted it publicly.
Indeed! How curious about the timing of her Sudden resignation letter.
4
I'm betting the tapes will make no differeince. Zero. You can bet that if copies are released, no matter how convincing they may be, Trump and his gang will insist they are "fakes" and not to be accepted as proof of anything other than that the Turks have actots and technicians whho can produce phony audio recordings.
3
Money has always been the primary motivation of U.S. leaders' relationship with the Saudis. This is not the first human rights violation; it simply happened to a citizen who has ties to a prominent American newspaper. The crown prince has ordered the capture and killing of many Saudi citizens. Its air strikes in Yemen are responsible for the two thirds of the civilian deaths in Yemen. Those weapons are purchased from U.S. defense contractors. So, as long as the Saudis are keeping our military industrial complex profitable, he can kill, torture, rape, etc. American leadership will look the other way and so will American voters.
4
I came across this comment included in an article written for The Guardian. It hit's the nail on the head in regards to this horrific act. "Interrogations tend go wrong when they include someone armed with a bone saw." I hope that the USA & the people we share this planet with WISE UP & PAY ATTENTION. The past 2 weeks have revealed activities, actions and words that reflect activities in Germany pre WW2.
6
The Guardian has been reporting since yesterday that Turkish officials say that they have already given copies of the audio tape of Khashoggi 's murder to both the United States and Saudi Arabia. Who's lying--the Turks or the President of the United States?
4
This President? Looks like a simple one to me.
5
Saudis murdered an American Journalist; Trump defends the Saudis.We need to know how entangled Trump is with the Saudis. How entangled is Jared Kushner?Saudis need to be stopped. Sanctions. No arms sales. UN action. Ray Sipe
9
As an American citizen, I am deeply ashamed and embarrassed by Trump and Pompeo's cowardice and complicity.
Perhaps even more appalling is the president's complete, naked weakness and lack of initiative -- I never thought I'd see the day when the President of the United States would get shoved around and played for a chump by a two-bit dictator like the Saudi prince.
Tell me again why it's so important to sell weapons to these guys? Or was it the loans to Kushner and condos in Trump Tower that paid the tab for our president to rubberstamp this barbaric political murder? Deep is our shame.
14
It is also increasingly clear that the Trump administration is complicit in this gruesome murder. The fact that they are trying to coordinate a cover story with the Saudis a day after the Saudis transferred another $100,000,000 to the US screams collusion.
11
And if this goes unpunished, none of us, anywhere, will be able to walk into an embassy knowing we are safe. Could we be murdered going to get our passport renewed? Disgusting but not surprising that Trump would put cash considerations over the sanctity of human life. America must make it clear that whoever is proven to be behind this, must be tried for murder, regardless of where they are in the Saudi hierarchy. And no trying that "fake news" bleat to try to cloud reality. Thank goodness there is electronic evidence.
10
trump made the comparison, not me, but think on this:
If Kavanaugh had been accused of torturing, beheading and dismembering a 15-year-old girl in high school, would trump still have supported him if he "strongly denied it?"
5
Will President Trump and his "inner circle" listen to this audio tape "if it exists" as the President has said?
Assuming they do listen to it, what will they then say??
President Trump can be the poster boy for "money talks"
4
One cannot help but think about Edward Snowden. Have not many extremists of BOTH sides called for a similar fate to befall him? And, no, intelligence leaks do not call for that!
1
This simply proves once again it's not how many you kill it's who you kill. There is a special class of people (reporters, politicians top the list) who have more value than normal people. The Saudi's kill thousands of people per year without a peep. Kill one Journalist (a special class) and the world comes unglued.
You see the pattern over and over, shoot a politician (chaos), shoot a normal (doesn't make the news). The bottom line it's OK to shoot normal people, they aren't worth anything. But don't kill a "special."
2
I’m pretty sure that if anyone with a green card got murdered in an embassy, we’d hear about it. I’m pretty sure if that person was just some substitute teacher from Missoula, it would be a lot harder to bury it. Diplomats murdering people in typically tends to start wars. Oddly, not happening in this case.
3
This proves no such thing. And by the way, yeah, American law generally does single out some murders as espcially bad: cop-killers, people who go after politicians, because these people make our society possible.
2
It is possible Trump was given information of the threat weeks ahead and chose to not earn the journalist. Instead Trump colluded with the Saudis to allow his killing to gain favor with them and now cover it up. This would make him.an.accessory to torture and murder and conspiracy with a foreign government to harm a US REDIDENT AND JOURNALIST.
1
So this makes Niki Haley, who worships at the alter of the genius of Jared Kushner look pretty bad, right? Donald, Niki, Jared, Ivanka, please get together and listen to the audio. One million times.
7
I am very disappointed with the united States government. I always thought the US honors human rights, but I was totally wrong. Apparently economic and political interests trump everything. The US doesn't care about anything other than their own interests, even siding with Saudi Arabia of all countries. Have you forgotten that Saudi Arabians committed 9/11?
5
The most astounding aspect of this whole thing is how the guilty party has essentially announced to the world that yes, they lied, and now please be patient while they come with a new lie that people like better. They know they're lying, we know they're lying, and they know that we know that they're lying. But they'll do it anyway for the sake of good theater.
7
When will we hear a comment from his boss, Jeff Bezos??
I wonder what mr trumps response would be If it was a Fox News reporter who was murdered
9
Looking at it in isolation, this heinous act would seem to make no sense. But what if it was encouraged by a power that wants to see a wedge driven between the US and Saudi Arabia, and that secretly had provided some guarantees to Bin Salman in case of severe blowback? Perhaps a power that wants to sell its arms, get closer to a power against which it has been aligned against
Or perhaps is was ordered by a 12th century King, who believes that he holds the power of life or death over his subjects.
3
I wasn't aware that consulates have the right to arrest, beat, torture, and otherwise "interrogate" people. It seems no matter what they were doing, it was absolutely criminal in intent and in deed.
6
Trump needs a well armed and cooperative Saudi Arabia. John Bolton, our National Security Advisor, has always identified Iran as the main threat to Mideast peace, and has never shied away from arguing for the use of military force to achieve regime change there. Bolton and Trump are preparing a military option against Iran, and a well armed Saudi Arabia is the tip of the spear.
4
I also have to wonder if his betrothed was a Saudi set-up - a mata hari..The only reason Kashoggi went into the consulate was to get legal papers for a divorce so he could marry this new woman..My money is on the new woman being a honey-trap, a woman who had to act her part for years before the trap was sprung. Now there is some good fodder for a spy novel..Or is it too predictable..
2
Proof?
The Con Don will just call this fake.
Gotta protect his International Mafia Robber Barons. I mean, after all, they just want to start WW3 and take over the world.
2
actually, i'm more interested in what specific information the "interrogation" team was trying (or did get) from khashoggi. it seems that 2 planes, diplomatic cover, dismembering equipment and specialized personnel indicates substantial planning and forethought.
the saudi's must have really wanted whatever khashoggi knew to schedule a meeting in a diplomatic consulate under the cover of certifying his divorce was valid and he could remarry.
4
@an alternative view
I doubt that the Saudi prince wanted any information. They just wanted to silence a reporter who was an outspoken critic of the Saudi regime.
Like trump, who would do the same if he thought he could get away with it, they don't like the free press. Especially when the free press catches them in lie after lie.
1
"... whether his intention was to have Mr. Khashoggi captured and taken back to Saudi Arabia". Since when does kidnapping require a bone saw and a mortician?
17
Any illusion that the USA represents the moral compass of the world was completely debunked as Mike Pompeo sat grinning like a Cheshire next to MBS. Disgraceful.
18
Are people really shocked that this happens in other countries? Have you not read anything over the last 100 years. Dissidents killed is a surprise? The only thing that is surprising is the reaction by readers. Most of you have no idea how lucky you are to live in the USA.
5
@Shamrock
No it doesn’t happen in ‘other countries’, it happens when commissioned by dictatorships. There are dozens of countries luckier than the USA, dozens where the murder rate is lower, dozens where the proportion of the population in jail is lower, dozens where people are not held without trial for clise to two decades and dozens where the press is not referred to as the enemy by their head of state.
1
A man is murdered, everyone knows it and our government is helping with the cover-up.
This is a new low. Trump & Co. have just sold the American "values" we keep hearing about for a lousy 100M.
12
Listening to Trump say a foreign prince deserves to be considered innocent until proven guilty right after hosting a rally where he said America citizens should be locked up without a trial is one of the most horrifyingly funny things I've heard all week.
Donald Trump: Fine with rich people murdering journalists; doesn't think Americans should have trials.
12
Mr Pompeo said at end of visit in Saudi Arabia that he did not want to talk about the facts of the case, and that the Saudis has not wanted to talk about facts, either. This is an admission that Mr Pompeo was after his lengthy flight none the wiser about what had actually happened, on any level, than he had been before the flight. Nevertheless, we have an Administration eager to assist in finding ways to allow the Saudis to concoct a version. Imagine. The police come to my house to investigate a murder and find me in full repainting of all walls and decide to allow me a few days to avoid speaking about the facts. This is not the United States we have come to love and admire.
6
What is it that the Saudis know about America that turn all presidents into sniveling little pushovers around them? Why will no one stand up to them?
7
The fact that this administration soft pedals this whole ghastly murder and awaits word from the perpetrators' investigation shows how morally bankrupt this White House and administration is. Americans wake up!
9
Trump is participating in the coverup of the killing of a journalist.
How long before this starts happening on US sale to US citizens?
12
The evils of Mammonism writ large just as it was in the friendship and support that Reagan provided to his "friend" Saddam Hussein. Trump was born rich and grew up "worthless."
His moral compass is a plumb-bob.
9
Where is Jamal Khashoggi?
It's a bluntly simple question the answer to which is brutally obvious - except to our president - who knows but does not care.
7
A scene from Get Smart.
So Chief, Chaos is saying he tripped over the Welcome mat and was decapitated by the receptionist's letter opener. What where the 15 other staffers for Chief?
It would be a joke if it was not the story Trump wants Americans to believe.
5
we are so shocked. and surprised to see such gruesome murder of an American journalist and that too in the middle of officials. this is horror. more horror he went inside to clear his papers to marry his girl friend. we are freeze over such horrors. This world must be changed to peace and love. what is the use of our culture. we strongly condemn whoever it may be and soon before the table of God such men would be brought and punished.
4
All of these 15 members of Mohammed Bin Salman’s murder gang, including the forensic expert, should be on the Interpol list of wanted international criminals. They should not be allowed to leave Saudi Arabia again without being arrested. No doubt they can spend the rest of their lives there in some palace where headphones and music will never drown out the terrible decibels of their conscience. MBS deserves a place on that list as well, and a place off the lists of guests in any civilized home or embassy or corporate office in the world.
14
Every responsible citizen around the world should feel a sense of betrayal and revulsion at this atrocity committed in a diplomatic compound.
That our own government has not come out and strongly condemned these actions is a disgrace and shame.
The perpetrators of this atrocity should be forever banned from the international community and arrested as criminals if they touch foreign soil.
12
It is a sad state of affairs when the President of the United States and the Secretary of State are as despicable as bin Salman and can not be trusted to seek the truth and act upon it.
12
I am thankful there are men and women like Jamal who are brave enough to speak up despite the fate they may encounter. The fourth estate is under attack every day now more and more in the U.S. This to me is just another example. We may not face the same scrutiny and repercussions as others do abroad when we speak our mind, but we are on a slippery slope w/ this Administration. Despite the big talk and cocky demeanor, where is the real strength we need from our "leader" to do what's right, to do what's hard? I will keep waiting but know it's never coming. Sigh...
7
Khashoggi's assassination (Let's face it, that's what it will turn out to be) is another notch on the gun which is killing liberal democracy all over the world. It's the same in Myanmar, in China, in Russia, in every Arab country, in much of Latin America.
But the true tragedy in all this is that even the United States, the supposed global beacon of freedom and liberty is now a willing partner with regimes which are crushing any resistance to themselves. At a time when America should be raising red flags of concern for this highly visible murder of a member of the American press, our anti-democratic leader covers up, lies, and speaks with a forked tongue. The Congress, as always, sits, mute and afraid of its own responsibility to lead.
We are changing, and not for the best. We Americans are now suppressing voters from exercising their right to a ballot. The courts are being filled with judges who are more attached to politics than to the law. The President of the United States, himself having achieved office with a minority of votes, denigrates and dismisses every American institution, especially the Department of Justice.
7
Until we hear the audio and have confirmed the voice signatures, all information is speculative - and any conclusions drawn worthless.
@2observe2b I’d say the fact that Kashoggi hasn’t been seen since walking into the Saudi Consulate is fairly conclusive.
8
@2observe2b
Your right. Khashoggi probably left the embassy from the second floor using a flying carpet, or he had an invisibility cloak.
2
This looks like a message from the Saudis to someone. To whom? I doubt it was simply to journalists in general. Who was Khashoggi? Not an ordinary journalist. He worked for Saudi intelligence. Said to be CIA asset. Was he about to disclose something? I suspect there is more to this story than reported so far.
3
I don't think that many if any people don't believe it happened. Gruesome things like this happen all the time. The notion that the US is going to get to the bottom of it is ridiculous. I think there will just be a lot of spinning and at the end it will just die out. It is a terrible thing that happened but in a way, you have to have a healthy respect for power and evil. This is why we have witness protection programs. Because the evil people are still out there.
2
Conference cancellations: After Khasoggi's torture and summary execution, I would be afraid to visit Saudi Arabia too.
3
This is truly disturbing. This man appears to have been murdered for advocating for the freedom of the press. I'm not surprised this doesn't seem to bother our POTUS.
13
In much of the world, working as a journalist requires the same level of courage and carries the same level of risk as that of a soldier fighting on the front line of a war. The list of countries that routinely intimidate, arrest, imprison, interrogate, torture and kill those journalists whose reporting is unflattering to the government is shockingly long, and includes some of the USA's closest allies. According to Wikipedia, “On average, one journalist is murdered every four days.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_2017
8
"But Mr. Trump’s comments suggested that the Turks have also declined to share their evidence with United States intelligence agencies, which are usually close partners."
The Turks have lost confidence in the US, for good reasons. First, they see the US, Saudi, and Israelis are playing games with the Kurds in northern Syria. They feel that would lead to a military clash involving them, sooner than later. Second, they see the US and Israel joining hands to pressure the Palestinians that, in their view, have already suffered tremendously for more than 50 years. Third, they have now evidence pointing to the US involvement in the recent cop in their country. The explanation: it is simply because Mr. Erdogan has dared to criticize publicly US (and Israel) policies in the region.
Given the level of distrust between the Turks and the US, it is not surprising that they are reluctant to give them all the information they have on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. They are afraid that their information will go straight to Riyadh (via Mr. Kushner?), to make sure that the story that the Saudis are cooking could cover every piece of information that is out there.
3
And the response from Republicans in Congress is...somewhere between the sound of crickets (99 and 44/100 %) and self-promoting lip service from the rest (Lindsay Graham et al.).
Vote on November 6th as if your life depends on it.
It might be so.
19
Let's not forget that "Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture him" and our government did nothing to warn or protect him. Trump et al is not only trying to help with the cover up, they are complicit.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/saudis-lay-in-wait-for-jamal-khasho...
8
How obvious does Trump's treasonous subservience to his personal financial backers, in this case the Saudis and before this Vladimir Putin, have to be before politicians and the press start publicly calling it out?
14
Is it possible that Turkey will not release the audio tapes of Khashoggi being murdered if Erdogan can get more out of the Trump administration by not releasing the tapes?
1
Maybe he is being held captive , and his murder was staged ? For maybe some other deal that might be going on with another country , or trade him or held hostage to make a better deal with another country . Fake murders are all to common to get things done for your country .
Of course there are photos of this crime as well - proof positive to show to the ones who ordered the murder. Demand copies of these Mr. President. Anything less will be your own crime.
3
The truth in matters of state may sometimes appear lost, however, it can be resurrected by the persistence of good journalism. Leaders in nations such as Saudi Arabia without a free press may feel comfortable in their ability to staunch the truth, but as is being seen in world media at this moment, the truth has a way of coming back to life. Mr. Trump himself should take heed.
8
I struggle with what is different this time. Human rights are violated throughout the Middle East, Asia, Africa, South America, Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc and this instance has singular focus. Is it the audacity our Pres has for defending Salman, or the billion dollar arms deal the Pres is protecting, or is it just near primaries and this is the current piece to fuel Dem vs Rep fires?
4
@James C
It’s not about you. This has outraged the ‘free world’ and has been condemned by leaders in myriad countries. But a man who has literally sold his soul to the Saudis is running your country. ‘A shining beacon on a hill’, funny or sad, your call.
1
Need more proof that Trump has no values and so do the people who follow him?
10
Trump will cast doubt on his own intel agencies anyway. He believes only what he wants to believe and only if it serves his narrow narrative.
5
Congratulations - Trump's America is complicit in this as the world watches in disgust.
11
". . . details from audio recordings described by a senior Turkish official on Wednesday"
I find these information disturbingly comforting in knowing such evidence exists which supports that the gruesome and heinous torture and murder occurred, but equally disturbingly appalled and disgusted that anyone would even think of recording such a gruesome and heinous torture and murder of another human being. How is it that mankind is becoming more cruel and hateful?
3
I read a few days ago Khashoggi was wearing an Apple Watch and he was able to record and transmit the recording.
1
The President of the United States, through his words and actions of condemning the press and embracing tyrants, has enabled this despicable act - horrifying, unspeakable act - to happen. And this guy still embraces the "friend of America"? This is no friend of America. If it means no electricity to read at night, or gas for my car, by sanctioning this rogue state, I embrace those restrictions gladly. I am an American and I believe in the humanity of all mankind. When did our government and so many of our people forget our common and once collective humanity?
21
I am literally sick to my stomach while reading this. This kind of treatment of a journalist and US resident cannot be condoned by the president, but I guess one would have to expect Trump to do the right thing. Like that'll ever happen.
12
The Evangelical Christians now have another reason to support Trump. This event sounds like an Old Testament Bible story.
10
@Tim
Apparently that guy Pat Robertson is all over telling his followers that this is no big deal and we need the jobs from arms sales. He is apparently over the idea of torturing an innocent man - he left the Christian symbolism of crucifixion long ago for the more practical $$$$ angle.
2
Trump and the Saudi prince have a common problem: A free press is a thorn in their side. To Trump, any news is "fake news" if it puts him in a bad light. He's said the media is "the enemy of the people". It's the same sentiment on the Saudi side, and they handled their problem in a way that Trump probably respects them even more for.
Trump's playbook to handle public concern is simple. Deny all evidence for as long as possible. Sow doubt. Then, just like with Kavanaugh, a sham investigation will reveal nothing. After enough time passes, who cares? That was so long ago! We've moved on...
The good news is WE have a democracy, and as long as people care enough to VOTE, we can put people in office that fill fight for OUR American values.
16
We cannot let this dangerous Evil regime get away with this.
In addition to this atrocity they have killed many innocent civilians including children in the Yemen and reduced that country to a rubble.
They have blockaded Qatar a country that hosts our troops in this dangerous area.
Saudis were responsible for killing thousands of Americans on 9/11. They formed the leadership of AlQuada that killed thousands of Americans and our allies in Afghanistan and that our longest and most expensive war has been taken over by their allies the Taliban.
Al Quada and ISIS have committed terrorists acts around the world. Their ideaology is driven by Wahabism a fanatical sect that finds a home and accommodation from the Saudi Royal family
One day the Wahabis could turn on the Saudi Royal family and obtain access to the Arms we have sold them or hope to sell them. Remember the Shah of Iran we avidly supported .
We need to create jobs by reducing our dependency on Saudi oil by investing in renewable energy and in doing so get out of the grip of the Military / Industrial complex. Eisenhower warned us .
Meanwhile tell the Saudis any attempt to manipulate oil prices will mean no parts for the arms they have.
As for Iran , massive mistake to get out of that agreement which could have been a positive lever to move that country to end its evil activities. In assessing these two protagonist rememember Iranians have not committed terrorists acts against us .
12
Mr. Khashoggi was a sacrificial lamb for our world's collective sins. It all boils down to one thing; oil. As long as the working class is willing to send its sons and daughters to die in far off places; as long as we idolize that powerful internal combustion engine that makes our cars awesome; as long as we are willing to compromise the health of our planet; we will be panderers to the tribal despots of the Middle East that won't allow their masses to enter the 21st Century.
11
Mr. Khashoggi's last WAPO column explains the importance of a free press. He was a champion for knowledge and freedom. Clearly, a position too threatening to Prince Mohammed Bin Salman; so he had Mr. Khashoggi brutally murdered. Our president makes the distinction that Mr. Khashoggi was not a US citizen; no he was a citizen of the world and now a martyr for a free press. We are indebted to him and all the brave journalists, who daily risk their lives, to inform us. A free press is a mandate in our Constitution. Despite Donald Trump's efforts to thwart any investigation of the Saudis, we need to protect our freedoms. On Nov. 6, vote as though your life depends on it, because it does.
11
I understand Khashoggi had a Green card, hence was to be protected under the law like any other US citizen.
3
If this can happen to a Post reporter, it can happen to anyone. Yes, there are abuses all over the world and the US cannot be responsible with respect to everything everywhere, but if the US allows its own economic interests to sweep this crime under the rug or brush it away without meaningful recourse, it's not just democratic institutions that will suffer. What we are talking about when we deal openly with such a murderer is the decline of our civilization -- a slide toward an economically powerful uncivilization with no values apart from the greenback, where anything may go.
6
So the people that carried out the 9/11 attacks were Saudi nationals, as was Bin Laden.
And for years, Saudis have been promoting conservative and militant strains of Islam at mosques throughout the world.
And now the unspeakable liquidation of a U.S.-based journalist and critic by sending a team of thugs to carry out his murder in an embassy in a foreign country.
Can someone remind me we consider them our allies?
14
Sadly, the inevitable outcome of all of the uproar over the state-sanctioned assassination of Mr. Khashoggi, which the Trump regime has implicitly sanctioned, will be that a week or two will pass and then some new even more galling outrage perpetrarted by Trump or Putin or the Saudis, or ??? will distract the world, and we'll all move on, as if nothing has happened. And so it goes in 2018 . . . .
2
Trump says the Saudis will potentially purchase 110 billion dollars worth of arms from US companies over the next ten years.
So far only $14 billion has been contracted.
"Potentially" is the word that will allow the Saudi murderers to murder again with impunity, thanks to Donald Trump and the feckless GOP. We need to hear more about the Trump family business and it's Saudi entanglements.
Donald Trump quote, Mobile AL. 2015: "I get along great with all of them; (Saudis), they buy apartments from me," Trump said. "They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!" The most recent example came last year, a visit from Saudi officials to Trump's Trump International Hotel in New York City helped boost the hotel's quarterly revenue by 13% in 2018's first quarter.The bump came after two straight years of booking declines for the property, the manager of the Trump hotel cited "a last-minute visit to New York by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia." In addition, a lobbying firm connected to the Saudi government also paid $270,000 to the Trump International Hotel in Washington, DC, between October 2016 and March 2017.
10
Yep, just follow the money.
1
MBS ordered this to send a terrifying message to any Saudi journalist anywhere in the world that they risk this if they criticize MBS or the Saudi Royal Family. He would not have done this if he had not felt sure that he would get away with it. Letting him get away with it is dangerous. It sends him the equally terrifying message that he can, if he wishes, also retaliate violently against ANY journalist anywhere who criticizes him.
The current occupant of the U.S. presidency has been consistently and publicly sending the message out, globally, that he is hostile to the free press and to journalists. MBS and others like him have been noticing. Also terrifying.
13
Until now, it has seemed that if only the GOP could be persuaded of Trump's true nature as a conman and a crook, they would begin to take action to check his power and guide us back into decency, but now I see that the GOP is well aware of Trump's nature, and evidently shares it.
11
This is from the same government who fomented and condoned 9/11, if they did not actually organize and direct it. Trump is following in the footsteps of G.W. Bush, who gave the Saudis a pass on that.
12
Add "accessory after the fact" to "unindicted co-conspirator" and 'obstructor of justice" to the titles Trump has accrued. He acts as if he is trying to cement his position in the cellar of the list of presidents. Still, as usual, the most frightening thing is that so many Americans idolize him and overlook his peccadilloes.
6
The brutal torture and cold blooded murder of Jamal Khashoggi is a crime against all journalists who dare to write the harsh truths of the world and a deplorable crime against humanity.
The Saudi government has never been a friend to the U.S. They played a role in the 9/11 attacks and continue to be more destructive than supportive to America.
The sheer fact the President of the United States has not condemned this heinous and horrific act of violence and the taking of an innocent life screams volumes. I do not recall a former president not calling out such brutality in the past. The continual unpresidential actions (or inactions) of this man continues to dismay and alarm this country and the world with each passing day.
Deep and profound condolences to Jamal Khashoggi's fiancé, family, loved ones, and members of the journalism family.
11
If, through some miracle, Trump is removed and jailed, the next best thing would be to take every cent he and Jared possess and apply the money where it can do some good: education, the environment, railroads, highways, you name it. Money, after all, is all that matters to him. Get him where he lives.
8
A teaching moment with several things to remember:
1. Denial, especially strong denial of any misdeed or crime has just become a good defense
2. Although the price may be high, moral standards and compass can be purchased. Do you have $110-$120 billion? Let's talk
3. American political system has become seriously damaged with its members active in various positions do not hold national interests and priorities in high esteem. Let me keep my seat, please.
4. The American Presidency has hit the gutter and keeps digging for lower grounds
5. If you think this election may be the turning point, think harder!
13
I am 51 years old. As an American, and for most of my life, the call for basic freedoms and human rights came before we engaged with any nation. If a nation wasn't on board with such basic principles, they did not have the right to fully engage with us. Sadly, since opening to authoritarian regimes around the globe, our economic interests have come before our duties as human beings. (Yes, we always dealt with OPEC in limited degrees, but empowering China with our capital has reduced our leverage in the long term). And when we elect politicians with no moral compass, we no longer have any clout in the world. If influence cannot be driven from our ideals and examples, where else can it come from? Answer: corruption.
4
I think you don’t understand: we built Saudi Arabia. Since before you were born. The source of wealth is oil, and the company, Aramco, used to stand for the Arab American oil company. It wasn’t fully turned over to the Saudis for decades. And Saudi has always been a dictatorship. We’ve not only been in bed with the Saudis your whole life, we built them from powerless to tribe into the vast wealthy country they now are.
2
What sanctions could the U.S. impose and what would happen next? Slow down the arms deal? Do to Saudi Arabia what it did to Canada? A Magnitsky Act aimed at the 10,000 princelings? I share the outrage and therefore would appreciate reporting options and foreseeable consequences.
4
How soon until Trump's government doesn't care about US human rights if those rights are in conflict with corporate profits. A dark moon is rising.
9
Some folks like to think they live in a world where you can get away with "stepping on the toes" of the powerful. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. If you make someone who is powerful and power hungry mad enough at you and they don't do anything about it, it is because they can't, not because they don't want to. I'm just pointing this it, certainly not endorsing this kind of action.
I share the grieve for Mr. Khashoggi and present my sympathies to his Family, his fiance and his Friends and colleagues. As commented here, I also share the hope, that his death will remain a turning point towards a future, where Autocrats must fear their End before they order their followers to commit a crime.
6
The Saudis will need to pay compensation to family and fiance. Some personal will be tried and imprisoned. Drug testing of the entire entourage seems like a good idea. Youth should be instructed that video games and movies contain dramas which have very little basis in reality. Princes need extensive educations in government and the theory and history of ruling nations. If they can't quote Chanakya and Machiavelli, Marx and Mao and dozens of other political writers then they aren't getting an education. If your libraries aren't good, develop them.
2
The horrendous and premeditated murder of Khashoggi and buffoonery of Trump towing the Saudi official line of innocence reminds us of the historical turning point of Vietnam War
The black and while picture of Brig. Gen. Nguyen Ngoc Loan shooting in cold blood a Vietcong prisoner, Nguyen Van Lem in the streets of Saigon during Tet offensive, was immortalised on the front pages of newspapers worldwide. The image gave Americans a stark glimpse of the brutality of the Vietnam War and helped fuel a decisive shift in public opinion.
I am sure millions around the world feel similarly revolted and feel sick of the extremely horrible cold blooded murder of Khashoggi by the Saudis and Trump administration’s unapologetic support for the Saudi prince.
Trump will be paying a terrible price for recklessly towing Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman bare faced bluff of innocence.
It’s so true that it’s the fools who rush in where angels fear to tread
.
43
Around the world yes, especially in Canada after not being supported by our allies when our foreign minister criticized human rights abuse against saudi activist women. We are disgusted but not surprised by American decency.
2
“A state-run narrative dominates the public psyche,” [Mr. Khashoggi] wrote, “and while many do not believe it, a large majority of the population falls victim to this false narrative.”
Sound familiar? Only here we have a large minority, not a large majority, believing the hogwash.
56
The real question is, how often has the King or the Prince done this? They appear to be rather practiced at the process. Is this business as usual for Journalists and others they don't like?
Sounds like a little more investigative journalism is in order.
34
I am beginning to believe that WE are the most dangerous country in the world. If we had no influence in the world in the past, then our actions now would not matter. But because of our history of being a beacon of hope, a bastion of honesty and for standing up for what is right, because of our past, our failure to act courageously and with conviction now shows the rest of the world that indeed, finally, America and its values might be broken. We CANNOT blame our leaders for this if we do not take action ourselves. In this terrible circumstance I hope that our influence is diminished and a new leader, one that puts human rights at the forefront of all decisions, will emerge. What we must do now is stand up for what we are and what we believe in.
39
Nothing of substance will happen against the House of Saud. Nothing ever has.
This is an arms deal where who provides the weapons is more important than the life of one person. Had Mr Khashoggi not been a Washington Post journalist the story would barely make the papers. This what results from unchecked power.
Anyone who believes a different outcome in another administration is sadly mistaken.
I feel for his family and the horrendous way Mr. Khashoggi’s life ended. We should mourn his passing and note the dangers involved when fighting against tyranny. It is the best that will occur.
23
The "Realpolitik" argument made by Cheney/Rumsfeld for invading Iraq is that by deposing Hussein, we would alter the power equation in the Middle East in a manner that would allow us to de-couple from Saudi Arabia. They would feel less need for our military presence and we would feel less need to provide it. Fast forward to 2018 and we are mired much more deeply than ever in the Middle East, to no good effect. Based on Trump & Pompeo's meek deference to the Royal Family, it appears that we are now not only a client state of Russia but Saudi Arabia as well.
30
The irony of the “realpolitik” argument is that the decoupling was in hand— it was accomplished by the Iran deal, which by its very nature allowed the US to pressure Saudi Arabia because it started to formalize some sort of relationship with Iran.
Trump in his infinite “stable genius” wisdom threw that all away. So now Saudi Arabia is relatively unchecked.
2
Someone should ask Jared Kushner: what did he know and when did he know it? According to the media, he is very close to MBS.
Someone should ask Nikki Halley: what did she know and when did she know it? Jamal Khashoggi went into the Saudi consulate on October 2nd. Nikki Halley’s resignation letter was dated October 3rd, according to Fox News.
51
The United States under Trump will do nothing because Saudi Arabia has paid for their silence but silence is louder than words.
22
We were so enraged when Isis beheaded innocent Americans but are willing to accept vague denials from the Saudi government. Such a double standard.
32
I am so utterly disgusted to see peoples can do such violence. I also think that this incident should not be taken by The governments that involve in. This case needs to be solved and i know that it will not be of any problem if the US and its ally seek justice Lastly, I want to pray for Khasagee to be in peace also for his family who has been deeply shaken for this mysterious injustice act.
3
MBS is no different than Putin poisoning his dissidents. As with Putin, Trump will do nothing here.
33
@Debbie What do you want Trump to do? Say it now. Don’t wait. Say it now. If you are so upset, surely you have in mind what the appropriate response should be. If not, what’s the point?
1
@Shamrock We could choose not to sell these despots arms. But our own despot places money over people so, you can be sure that will not happen. Whenever I think we have reached a new low as a nation, there's Trump standing in the hole with a shovel.
1
@Shamrock
Are you kidding?
How about LEAD? Not send Pompeo over there to grin and shuffle for the Prince.
1
Saudi Arabia has supported Bin laden; supported the pilots who have flown into the Pentagon and Twin towers; jailed and killed dissidents and rocked the oil market in the `70s when they needed money to support the right wing clerics.
They have crucified and beheaded their people.
The Saudis are a brutal monarchy. They are not allies in any sense of that word.
It`s time to cut them loose.
37
Who knows, with all his lying and conniving, Trump may have been in on the disappearance of the Saudi journalist.
22
This is gruesome. Horrific. Evil.
Donald Trump and his supporters are making America great as North Korea, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia. Welcome to an America with low unemployment, low wages, low inflation, low values and no morals. Is this really who we are? I am ashamed of the president, the Republicans in Congress and I am afraid of their supporters. They aren't deplorable, they are evil themselves.
49
"Villa for Sale" The sign on the fence in Turkish in the first photo. Nobody seems to want Saudis as neighbors.
10
Have we sunk so low that our president and our secretary of state are now helping the Saudi monarchy cover up a murder ordered by their crown prince? For what? Arms sales? If the Trump administration gets away with this I will be ashamed to call myself an American.
43
The orb made them do it! The culprit has at last been identified. Phew, what a relief. Now back to business as usual.
6
There are many good reasons to support one of our closest allies in the Middle East. There were also many good reasons having supported the authoritarian, murderous regimes we did in South America over the years. Doing the morally right thing is frequently sacrificed in the interests of our perceived strategic interests. Generally speaking, this strategy has not led to outcomes that were anticipated. Perhaps a strategy of consistently doing the right thing, the moral thing, might have better outcomes and actually advance our national interests in the long term.
15
President Obama would never let this pass. The Republican Party has made a deal with the devil; shame, and blood on your hands, Republicans
44
The Turks don’t care- about the murder. They do care about what they can gain from holding the audio back until Saudi gives them something of value. Otherwise it gets released. And USA don’t want it released either. So they will cough up too. Or else....
13
By cutting off his fingers they showed the nature of the killing to be a personal vendetta. It was the last statement: I will take from you your means of expression. After all, this journalist used his fingers to type the articles that angered the Saudi regime so much. I truly hope that Trump’s response serves as a warning to the West that he must be impeached or else our freedoms will fall in time, also.
30
This horrid deed would not have happened under any other president's administration.
This president has shown complete disdain for the importance of a free press, the rule of law, and the norms of civilization.
I fear for journalists everywhere when tyrants are not held accountable.
44
Yes, this was an outrageous act. One of many which occur daily in this sorry world. The Saudis are responsible and must be held to a high moral standard, for a change. But so must the Americans, the Israelis, the Chinese and all the other state actors who hold life so cheaply. If we are going to change the world, everyone is accountable.
12
So the Saudi Consulate was bugged by the Turks, for the right price to the Turks, these audios will disappear. You know it.
12
Pour USA, do you realise what Mr Trump is doing to the stature of your country, your presidency and your political system?
24
@MH No---this country has been an utter disgrace and menace to the world for a very long time.
2
Will there ever be a bottom with the Trump Administration?
20
Joseph Stalin a modern master of political murder said it well:
"One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic."
8
What can we do America? I keep telling people that they have to vote and yet I am afraid that Trump will continue to be supported. I am terrified that he could be re-elected in a couple of years. Why don't people care about the kind of country America is devolving into. I have never felt so afraid for this country and the whole world. Are we stumbling toward total chaos? The premediated slaughter of a journalist is horrifying and intensely tragic. Hearing Trump talk about it, as if this slaughter isn't a concern, is truly disturbing. Seeing a senior American official Secretary of State Pompeo smiling with MBS is sick. We are getting to know what evil means and looks like. I keep thinking that if Germany can live through Hitler and come out better, then there's hope for us. It doesn't take long for me to remember the awful cost that was paid. If I believed in God I would get on my knees and pray every day. Unfortunately we as a country got ourselves into this and we as a country need to get us out of it. The Trump monster needs to be totally rejected at the polls. I'm afraid but I still hope.
36
Let’s not sell any more weapons to the Saudis.
28
Trump is helping to cover up a murder. Has this sunk in yet?
45
Is it worth bargaining our soul for oil ( the US produce their own and export what's left) or to keep strengthening a stupid alliance to comfort an anti iranian agenda?
The answer should be a loud no.
12
What can be done when the President of our United States of America and the majority of the Republican Party condone murder and butchering within a consulate? This is immoral beyond being repugnant.
28
Mr. Trump should be removed from his position immediately. The man has gone too far in protecting those murderers.
18
Khashoggi's death was tragic, and the actions taken by our president, and Congressional politicians, and foreign governments as well, has been even more shocking. It has been 17 days, and Trump is still dancing to find the right words to absolve himself from the lies told to the American people. Congress is and still remains a bunch of hypocrites standing in a single line waiting for orders from the president. Pitful. I'm not sure which is worse, the actual act of having Khashoggi killed, or the pathetic actions of our politicians in D.C.
22
„It’s reasonable to give them a handful of days more to complete it so they get it right, so that it’s thorough and complete,” (Mr Pompeo).
All on-site whitenesses are in Ryad, including the consul. So, it should be a matter of minutes, maybe hours to simply interview them and to get the full picture.
Not insisting in a immediate presentation of facts makes Mr Pompeo (and Mr Trump) accomplices in this delay-and-cover-up operation.
10
What happened to Mr. Khashoggi doesn't surprise me. I do believe that Mr. Khashoggi was a smart man, however, and I can't understand why he walked in to the Consulate in the first place. I'm quite sure he understood the dynamics of Saudi politics.
2
It's becoming increasingly harder to admit, but we can't tout that Trump belies American values to decry his shocking response. To the world, he's honoring the American values that not only put him in the White House, put are keeping him there and threaten to maintain Senate control. As a country, we may need to be honest about the sickening shift in values that mean this event, too, will get a pass by his Evangelical and power-thirsty elected official base.
10
Do people not understand how at risk we are for having similar events take place right here in America?
And I don't mean having a foreign national killed on our soil and we ignore it. We are at risk of becoming a country where Americans themselves will begin to fear a late night knock on the door.
Putin, Kim Jong-un, Duterte, and who else? Trump has directly said he admires what strong leaders they are. And now this.
How soon before "Lock her up" becomes a literal cry of "Off with her head"?
17
It is Saudi Arabia whose loyal son, Osama bin Ladin who brought down the Twin Towers. They remain as militantly anti American as ever in their radical version of Islam. They continue to teach their children that the West is full of devils only worthy of violent Jihad.
Their royal family knew exactly how to pander to trump when he visited there and got conned into selling them, to further ttump cronies interests, billions in war munitions and planes. Trump would far rather support his monied friends, and the Saudis know it, than be bothered about human rights or the facts about Saudis innate hatred of the West.
Iran is far less formidable. Trumps "base" are truly bottom of the barrel as Americans who supposedly abhorred 9/11, but condone the monster trump is. All for money, all for trump and cohort. Can't say friends because trump has no thoight to share the wealth he is skimming with the pitiful, low income people who adore this false god.
14
This from that shell of a human being who called for the death penalty before the central Park Five were tried (and ultimately exonerated). This president and presidency is depraved.
30
What a barbaric regime. And one we continue to support out of sheer greed.
12
Despite the media’s attempts to make it otherwise, this doesn’t sound like our problem.
1
The journalist was an American, a legal permanent resident of the United States and a journalist with the Washington Post, an American newspaper. And Saudi Arabia tortured, dismembered, and killed him during a trip to Turkey. How is this not our problem?
11
What a horrific nightmare. The president ('p' in lower case) of the USA, is being held captive by the Saudi spin-machine and Wall Street. Except that the Saudis are not up to speed. But nor is the president.
Tell him anything which will help him look presidential and he will put on his serious, white-goggle-eyed face. fingers pointing forward together in a triangle, sitting on the edge of a seat. How many more times do we have to see that ? Such a giveaway for 'I have no clue what is going on...'
Mr president, hopefully, this ghastly act will bring you and Pompeo and all your other goons, down.
Until then, November 6th will prove it.
13
I tell my husband to turn off The news because I just can’t watch but this? Unbearable that our president is turning a blind eye to the torture and murder of a journalist in the Saudi Embassy - a permanent resident of the US. In an embassy!!! I just have no words.
26
“Trump pushes back.” Our President is a liar. He’s just remarkably uniquely unbalanced. Now the entire GOP will fold and agree. Pompeo kisses the ring too. He’s an agent player looking more like and advocate for lies and moral corruption hurting the US. Kinda KGB like.
6
What is the universal first moral principal?
THOU SHALL NOT KILL.
11
Wasn’t the Saudi Osama Bin Ladin from a real-estate family just like Trump. They both want or wanted to destroy US! Maybe there is a connection that should be investigated!
10
How is this not terrorism?
23
What is the Congress doing about this?
12
Imagine that! The Saudis killing someone who would not toe their line? Trump's tongue tied. What about Patrice Lumumba? Who killed him.....and others?
3
Trump. “I’ll have a full report on that” when Mr. Pompeo returns.
Pompeo “We never got into facts”.
Sounds like the FBI investigation of Kavanaugh.
Next up Trump “ It doesn’t matter. We won.”
15
@ BR
Exactly. This should be the top comment.
2
No words....people die all around the world everyday....sometimes under horrific circumstances....but to see the president of the United States be complicit in this terrible murder and try to make excuses for it just makes me sick. Who ever thought it would come to this? If you voted for trump I hope you are wondering now why you did so. Piece by piece and bit by bit he is destroying our humanity.
16
The royal Saudis have been killing since they are in power. As long as they have oil, nothing will change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Akid
2
horrendous, just awful
8
Trump, his family, and his administration are a font of endless cruelty - we knew that - and now complicit in criminality by helping a ruthless, cold-blooded despot put forth the fantasy that his henchmen were but simple "tourists" in Turkey. Doesn't that remind you of something, i.e. why the Skirpals would-be killers, were in the UK. To simply enjoy the splendor of Salisbury Cathedral, which CCTV shows they never went near? Trump, his whole stinking clan, and Pompei take us all for complete chumps, pure and simple. Guilty until proven innocent? Having the entire consulate painted over just hours before the Turkish forensics team arrives to inspect the premises? The gall and inhumanity of Trump is bottomless. I keep thinking it cannot get any uglier. The torture described is positively medieval. Fingers chopped off, beheading, body dismembered. What a sick, lame, lily-livered, milquetoast, weak-kneed, amoral freak show the entire Republican Party has become. As an American citizen I am utterly disgusted.
16
MBS appears to be very honest and a friend to the U.S. why not let the investigation be completed. Just as dr ford had evidence to back her up and she was proven a fraud, let the prince have his day. Guilty until proven innocent is not the way it works. Plus we need the saudis as no one wants to pay $10 a gallon for gasoline.
@Mark "Plus we need the saudis as no one wants to pay $10 a gallon for gasoline."
Your misguided priorities in this situation is appalling. Do you really think avoiding $10/gallon gasoline is more important that normalizing and setting a precedent for human rights violations? This line of thinking is heartbreaking and sickening. Hillary was right when she said that there are deplorables in this country. Time to take a hard look in the mirror.
13
How was she ‘proven a fraud’?
The FBI didn’t even talk to her or most of the other folks she named. Very much like this investigation into this ‘truthful’ guy. As some one else said - absolutely deplorable.
3
Could MBS have an audio or video of Jared Kushner either agreeing to the killing of Kashoggi, or initiating the proposal?
5
Trump's two most dangerous character flaws are on vivid display here - his narcissistic refusal to acknowledge reality when it conflicts with his goals, and his unflinching adherence to a financial bottom line. Our only hope lies in our upcoming vote. VOTE!
13
First the Russians stumble in covering their poisonous tracks and now the Saudis are caught red handed. Are spies getting clumsier or is intelligence getting more powerful? How in the heck did the Turks record this when presumably like most countries the Saudis would be vigilant for surveillance devices in their embassies and consulates?
2
.
It boggles the mind that an American president and Mike Pompeo are laughing and offering excuses for this criminal butchery by the same folks who paid for 9-11. Absolute savagery.
Maybe Trump is wearing headphones too.
14
What does Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan have to say?
3
Anyone who does not see the extreme threat posed by our amoral leader is living in a dream world. I'm talking about the US leader and his henchmen and henchwomen who are completely unfazed by this brutal murder. Tomorrow it will be someone else and one day it will be you and me.
9
Where is the surprise? A country,named after the family ,who firmly set it in the 12th century. I assume what happened was the Saudi equivalent of being drawn and quartered. Stoning women, public executions, and yet every president has visited, and befriended these beings as if they were, well, just a little different. They aren't, and they should be separated from the international community as what they are..evil and without any vestige of civilization, as are those who accept and support them, all for oil...Shame.
15
This is not a problem the United States has the ability to rectify, rather than jumping to conclusions we should examine the cause and the ultimate effect.
If it was Khashoggi's Apple watch that provided the grisly recordings and or video then that changes the complexion of the situation. If for example it was his intent to humiliate and embarrass the Saudi's that places him in the camp of being an enemy of the regime. That then provides us with the why he went into the embassy. He most certainly was not going there to apply for a marriage permit, thats nonsense.
If he has acted with bad intent to the Saudi's I understand more fully what occurred, I do not agree or condone it, but I do understand it. The Saudi people are relatively ignorant feudal nomads with money, they were involved with 911, they denied it. No one believes these desert rats, they won't believe them when this ultimately shakes out. They have the oil, we should have taken it.
2
Focus in Trump's WH: - How to manage this thing to make it go away; how to cover it up and continue to do business as usual.
Focus in the Arab world: - how to make this a catalyst to continue the Arab Spring (Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria and now Saudi Arabia).
The biggest foe is Trump's WH. Stymie, thwart this movement. Saudi Arabia is different, they have money. Forget about freedom, liberty for Saudi people. Time to make money - and continue the status quo. (Trump's scheme is to set Saudi Arabia to go to war with Iran. Sounds familiar. Like Iraq in war with Iran,1980)
The real victims are the people of Saudi Arabia who must continue to live in a Republic/Kingdom of Fear. The leader of the Free World has the power to pull away the iron curtain. Unfortunately, he is not so enlightened. Cozy up and coddling a group of medieval rulers for the sake of money are more important than human rights and decency.
4
How could his death have resulted from "an interrogation gone wrong"? As soon as they made any permanent torture marks on Mr Khashoggi (such as cutting off his fingers), they obviously meant not to leave him alive. And such a thing would have been done at the beginning of the "interrogation".
What a grotesque affair.
10
The moral compass of this administration is broken.
6
The Trump administration has treated Muslim residents, citizens and immigrants with nothing but disdain, hatred, and bigotry. Now, it is refusing to hold the Saudis accountable for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a muslim who was a legal resident of our country.
Considering that Trump and his family have a strong personal financial relationship with the Saudis, this is not surprising. But allowing the Saudis to get away with murder in order to protect their own interests should have severe ethical and political consequences for Trump.
How ironic and fitting it would be if the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a muslim, brings about the downfall of Trump and his empire.
10
There are tens of thousands of Saudi princes. I’m sure they can find one who’s a reformer but not a cold blooded killer.
3
Head severed; fingers removed; body dismembered. All these happened inside Saudi consulate in Istanbul and Saudi Arabia vows to punish the rogue agent. What a cruel joke. Without the orders of someone high in the royal family, such a dastardly act would not have happened on a foreign soil.
I don't believe Turkey, America and Saudi Arabia. All three would bargain with each other, since their interests are inter connected; and ultimately bury the truth. The investigation should be done by an independent body.
Trump should have stood by the side of truth and threatened Saudi with sanctions. But he has taken sides already and given a clean chit to the Saudi Crown Prince.
I see the murder of Jamal as a open threat given to the journalists across the world. If you speak truth against high and mighty, you would be killed. Very sad indeed.
10
So #FakePresident has set a dollar value on human life: $100B. But the U.S. treasury and American defense contractors will never actually collect that amount.
6
We must realize that Mr. Khashoggi was a permanent resident of the United States while being a reporter for a major newspaper.
For Trump to be so complicit with this Saudi government killing because the Saudi’s buy lots of military hardware and stay at his U.S. hotels is disgusting.
His failure to offer services of the FBI, CIA and NSA to this investigation is telling while the laughing Mike Pompeo as he sat with this cruel Saudi dictator gave cover to the Saudi government.
Suspend all military shipments to Saudi Arabia, immediately withdraw any U.S. government participation in any Saudi “Davos- style” economic conferences and tell any Saudi government officials they are not welcome in the U.S. until American intelligence agencies have fully investigated this case with their conclusions submitted to Congress.
That’s the least our government should expect to honor the family and friends of Mr. Khashoggi.
15
No one from the Middle East refers to Saudi Arabia as “Arabia”. These people can’t be Saudis!
I will take it from you as true that no one from Saudi Arabia or the Middle East would refer to “Arabia”, but I wouldn’t draw much from that, given that this is a translation into English of something not spoken in English.
What would be more relevant is what was said in the original, not how the translator decided to convert it for an English-speaking audience.
1
Donald Trump appears to be too stupid, compromised, and unreliable to either process or entertain international intelligence available to a POTUS. If his staff is withholding information, all Trump has to do is read the New York Times. Maybe someone at FOX will read it to him over the air. Regardless, Trump is doing nothing to protect the citizens of the United States, being more concerned with his and Kushner's personal financial ties to the perpetrators of this heinous crime than to the country as a whole.
Does this violate his oath of office?
6
I'm as horrified as anyone here. But let's be real. Saudi Arabia is a repressive, medieval state in the hands of religious fanatics and a sprawling corrupt royal family. It has been like that forever and still is. It has spent and is spending billions on spreading fanatical islam through the world, it has overtly financed terrorism, and now is decimating Yemen.
And yet our thirst for oil, and for a kickback of part of our oil dollars, notably through arms sales, trumps all. Saudi Arabia has long bought out the entire US political class, quite cheaply one might add.
Shame on those politicians who fail to react now.
4
Whether it's a 400 pound chimera on a bed or rogue killers, there are no end to a con man's excuses. Sickeningly, the Oval Office gives a degree of inherited credence , no matter how bizarre.
2
At this moment, on Fox News website, the stories in descending order are:
“Caught red-handed? Treasury employee charged with leaking info on Trump team “
“Dem operative arrested in attack on GOP campaign manager””
“ not offensive enough? Louis Farrakhan won’t be suspended by Twitter despite anti-Semitic remark”
“ more accusers come forth In case ofsurgeon, girlfriend accused of sexual assault”
“Woman defends ‘Stand for flag, Kneel for the cross’ T-shirt to NBC reporter”
Then 10 more articles, including one about flushable wipes clog in sewers, until we get to the one related headline: “GOP senators urge consequences for Saudi Arabia”. This is the one article, it way below the fold, and it puts the most positive possible spin on the government’s response. Not a word about Trump and his attempts to inject doubt.
Time to fight, people. The other side is suppressing the news.
13
The Saudis our "friends." Great company. Tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are.... The monster club.
In another front. I can't believe that Khashoggi fell into the trap. He would have known better. How could he go into that embassy to pick up divorce confirmation papers. Could they not be delivered any other way? And if not, obviously he was walking into a trap. Why did he not bring security guards with him?
This is a truly truculent story full of gruesome bloody details.
1
''What the Arab world needs most is free expression'' wrote Jamal Khashoggi in his last Post column.
One way to achieve this noble utopian dream --wahhabism being the antithesis of freedom-- take Netanyahu, old bin Salman, Khamenei, Putin, Haniyeh, Trump, and Abbas. Put them naked in an empty room with six 7.62 cartridges on the floor. Throw in an AK-47 with a empty chamber. Triple lock the door. Don't go back.
3
The "friends" of the U.S. these days are the countries that finance the Trump family operations: Russia and Saudi Arabia. The "enemies" include NATO, Canada, the FED and Dr. Blase Ford.
It is beyond disgusting that any representative of any U.S. bank or corporation shows up for the Saudi Ideafest this week. Please NYT provide a complete roster of these attendees including contact information. Thank you.
6
Women all over this country don't have a powerful state monitoring the actions of their abusers. The Trump playbook which worked with Kavanaugh is failing in a heap of shame in this grisly murder.
6
And so will someone finally ask, "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
12
trump places the death of an individual in the same category as assaults on women, assaults on the environment and assaults on our electoral process. "If it happened"... "The (perpetrator) strongly denies...
trump denies sexual assaults; Roy Moore denies perverted activity; Kavanaugh denies sexual assault; Putin denies assaulting our election...and now the Crown Prince denies killing a journalist.
Nothing happened...."if it happened"
15
Mike Pompeo, grinning and cheerful with the Saudi elite, is a disgrace to our country. They are all about money and not our values. He should be fired. Shameful display. He should have at least shown some level of gravity for the situation. An innocent man has died; show some respect.
17
His handshake with the king is iconic like the statement made by Mrs.Albright who said when asked by the anchor on a TV program,whether killing thousands of children in Iraq with sanctions was worth it and she blatantly replied Yes.I think that was the end of her.
3
Broadcast the tape. The world needs to hear it, like the pictures of people being shot in the head in Vietnam, like the videos of our troops killing civilians from helicopters, like the pictures of Emmett Till.
The only way they get away with these acts is if we let them. That becomes easier for them to do if we don't have all the details we can, as mind-numbingly horrible as they must be.
10
And SA sent $100m to the US in blood money.
5
How dare Trump fail so completely to see that we NEED the rule of law. There is NO excuse for cold blooded murder. Murder is NOT acceptable. Why is Trump's outrageously bad conduct still being glossed over.
10
Have we reached a point where Trump supporters will, at minimum, question his behavior and his leadership or begin to waver on their support? No, no we have not. Look at Pompeo...almost laughing about it. Think about that. If anyone else: Obama or Clinton had done this, EVERYONE on the right would be labeling them traitors. Even if Trump's White House had been linked to the murder and dismemberment (contemplate that for a second.....imagine a doctor decapitating someone....think what that would look like) of a political foe. The base would not blink an eye. Therein lies the problem. If this isn't enough to sicken you to go vote, you are complicit with all of this.
16
Trump Doctrine: "Sorry some guy (not a real American) got murdered, but Business is Business. Besides, I like guys who don't get murdered. I get along fine with the Saudis, they say nice things about me, and they buy lots of Trump stuff."
23
What has happened is very terrible. Those Arabian murderers should be punished together with the leaders of Saudi Arabia. This like this just can't be done. Why is USA selling weapons to a dangerous terrorist country? There is no reason. Saudi Arabia may have money and oil, but so what? We are living in year 2018 with high technology, not in year 1300. Murdering and torturing innocent people is just wrong.
13
I want to see are senators and congressmen rise up with their voices and action and do something. I'm sick and tired of them sitting on their hands silently as this Administration walks all over democracy and decency. Please make your voice heard November 6th
11
We live in an era where satire is reality and despots can not be held accountable
Maybe the Cold War was not so bad after all
7
The Saudis say they didn't do it and they can prove that because it's not on their calendar.
16
We should have held the Saudis accountable back in 2001, even to the point of military action. They were complicit in 9/11 which is an act of war. We think they are our friends but it is only our lust for their oil that is talking. MBS, like Putin, has Trump wrapped around his finger. Trump won't do anything, he's just going to let this wear itself out.
16
The online images of SA's public beheadings were receding in my mind. Now this. I'm sickened, saddened, and not surprised.
14
As opposed to the US and its grisly, drawn out lethal injections, hidden in secret, even from witnesses? State executions after a trial may be something to debate, but this is something utterly different.
2
"A top Saudi doctor of forensics had been brought along for the dissection and disposal of the body," so doctors in Saudi Arabia do not abide by the Hippocratic Oath, I guess.
8
Undoubtedly Trump already knows all this. His reaction can be seen in Pompeo's unctuous smiles at Saudi's young and brutal tyrant. Money talks, and only money talks with this administration.
16
I understand This is issue is very important but hey Saudi's are slaying Yemeni's and letting them starve death.
Why we are so ignorant to that atrocity?
13
Two reasons:
1. He was a reporter, so the press will be more sympathetic.
2. The story is more sensational, and will generate more clicks and comments.
The Turk's had the Saudi consulate wired! OMG - for the Saudi's to never performed an electronic sweep, ongoing, is stunning! Every country surveils others' for their own protection, and here, for the Saudi's to not protect their consulate from eavesdropping is stunning
So they are totally BUSTED, and the recording WILL be in the public record. Turkey is in a very dicey position, as no country wants to admit planting listening devices into another country's sovereign property, but they also cannot let this stand, just like the UK with the Russian's poisonings.
With Arabia being a counterweight to Iran, Trump is in a difficult position He will want justice, yet also does not want to alienate an true ally.
I suggest the Saudi's will arrest and execute those that have been already identified, in short order, to put a lid on this, and try to move on.
A BIG problem they have is he worked for the Wn Post, owned by the world's wealthiest man, Bezos, who can throw unlimited millions at this, over many years, until he is satisfied.
If I were Trump, one move I would suggest is to invite Bezos over, tell him you will give the WP the inside scoop, in exchange for something meaningful. Win, win for each of them, AND for journalism!
1
Trump is thinking post presidency and his financial well being. Little he knows that he may very well soon be going to jail for treason, and financial fraud.
8
The amputation of his fingers during his torture is especially chilling and symbolic given that Mr. Khashoggi is a journalist and uses his fingers to write his articles critical of the Saudi Crown Prince. It must have been an absolute blood bath in that Saudi consulate given his beheading and dismemberment with a bone saw. I'm sure the Turks forensic specialist will find some evidence even after the Saudis sent in a cleaning crew and repainted the place. I am sure the Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman is so accustomed to prisoners being tortured and beheaded that it didn't even cross his mind that he was committing this heinous act under Turkish surveillance. This is truly sick and depraved stuff.
14
To Trump, Kushner, Pompeo:
All 3 of you are apologists and enablers. Americans are not buying your excuses. We expect answers and accountability. What a sorry lot is at the top of our government.
21
Every American made bomb that is dropped by the Saudis that kills Yemeni children and civilians is on us. We are letting the kill kids . If we marched by the millions on the white house to stop it they would. Government is supposed to fear its citizens rising up. How lazy have we become?
13
In 2001, our government enabled 19 Saudis to murder 3,000 Americans. How can we now expect our weak president to condemn the butchering of a journalist for one of our leading newspapers by the same grotesques?
Our response should be to triple down on our search for alternative energies. Instead, we protect our dealer. We deserve better.
16
Covering for a murder, in an embassy, to gain arms sales is a High Crime.
I am invoking section 4 article 2 of the constitution : "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
Clean House.
20
It appears the President of the United States is complicit in the coverup of the brutal murder of a journalist. Republican Congress, Is your stomach still not turning? Is there any line that can not be crossed?
18
What is the current tally for Mr. "Art Of The Deal"? Let's see... Played by North Korea, played by Russia, and now played by Saudia Arabia. Who's up next?
20
What do we or the world expect from the American political leadership in terms of being able to express true and honest moral outrage? We should not be naive nor gullible for human rights and universal decency have been subjugated to geopolitics and financial gains years ago. Trump is just a cruder and uglier type of American politicians.
8
Jared Kushner is wearing that squirrelly smirk, now. Since he is real tight with the Saudi Crown Prince, maybe the FBI should have a chat with old Jared to find out what the Prince ain’t telling. Maybe Don Trump should have a chat with his son in law to find out what the Crown Prince might know about the WAPO journalist.
7
Come on. Trump is being criticize worldwide and will hurt him in the midterms and suddenly after weeks in hiding Rudy emerges to rewrite history and pretend they knew early on the Prince was involved in the murder and suddenly we hear Pompeo was tough in Saudi Arabia. More Trump lies.
6
In the excellent HBO documentary “The Final Year” UN Ambassador Samatha Powers lamented that it took too long for the Obama administration to figure out that Russia’s interests and Putin’s interested were not the same thing; and that Russian diplomats were usually working for the latter.
It’s taken the rest of the world no time at all to figure out the same thing about Trump.
4
What do we care?
The USA routinely assassinates our own citizens whether they convicted in a court of law or not.
The press upset because it’s one of their ranks.
3
The horrendous and premeditated murder of Khashoggi, whose only fault was a mild and polite critique of MBS's tactics, while he all along praised the prince's aims, horrifies any decent human being. Donald Trump has demonstrated over and over that his only God is money, and is content to look the other way. The only question left is whether this country has any decency left, whether we too will accept torture and murder as the price of cheap oil. Unless We The People stand up and vote this man and his clique of sycophants out of office, we are as despicable as he is.
11
Mr. Trump is the kind of guy whose “friends” could kidnap, torture, murder, and dismember someone... and he not only wouldn't protest, he’d gleefully defend them.
One doesn’t need to know the ultimate facts of this case to realize this, one need only hear his responses to the allegation.
11
Of course the Turks aren't sharing their info with Trump's administration--who in their right mind would?
9
This is the world that Donald Trump wants to live in. Absolute power for the monarchs, and absolute fealty for the serfs, enforced by the kind of horrific brutality that the kings of Europe and the Caliphs of Asia used, most commonly in the name of religion, to terrify the masses into subservience.
8
And covered in a veneer of stylish opulence!
3
People have been writing about our American Leaders being played. Come on, Folks! Wake up!
Our Republican leaders are playing you, all of you! They sputter and huff and puff and then go about appointing conservative, far-right Republican judges; which is their main concern.
You know who is going to come after all of us? This right wing judiciary system. Just wait.
Mr. Kashoggi's grisly death is just one more egregious murder in a world now dominated by dictators like Putin. On the other hand, the USA has become like a comic book dragon, huffing and puffing and exuding very little fire.
I am over here in Europe now, talking to people who no longer respect our country. They may like aspects of our culture and most treat Americans very well. But they are also shaking their heads sadly at this American circus run by our clown-in-chief Trump.
15
I am a once proud, entirely disgusted American.
A Washington Post reporter was brutally tortured and murdered. Our government does nothing but flap its lips.
I'm exhausted by what Trump has done to this country in such a short period of time.
As a once proud American, I will take a knee during every playing of the National Anthem until we start acting like Americans again. I will take a knee in my living room, in the stands, at the start of my next running race.
I cannot stand for what we've become. It would be sinful to do otherwise.
23
And Pompeo and Trump aren't asking for, let alone demanding the tapes and evidence - they don't want to see it, because they know what happened, and don't care. The truth would hurt profits and power, so they will deny it, and have no interest in seeking any truth.
But it's just plain stupid to be so blatantly obvious about this all being a meaningless puppet show.
4
Follow the money. Our government is loathe to criticize the Saudis for one single reason: their incredible wealth. God forbid we lose access to deals with the deepest pockets on the planet.
14
Our simpering president and his grinning, capering secretary of state are giving us implausible lies and changing stories. The prince, they promise, will do a thorough investigation.
But our own intelligence agencies have already concluded that the prince was directly involved.
19
The Conman and princeling Kushner are ignoring this murder to secure their own financial interests in Saudi Arabia. The Conman could care less about the U.S., our interests and our values. This is all about money for him and his family.
15
The saddest thing about this tragedy is that the U.S. has not renounced its relationship with the Saudi government largely because of their wealth (and their ties to Israel). It is almost as if we are co-worker conspirators in Khashoggi's death. We are party to the ominous quiet that follows a supression of free speech.
6
Well, you elected a "business man" for POTUS, not a politician, certainly not a moral compass. I'm very sad the direction this country is going. We have a megalomaniac for our "leader", remember 9/11 who flew those airplanes? Hmm. Saudi's, our ally, lets attack Iraq? Trump calls them our ally? Roge assassins? Well guess not. God save us. And the rich keep getting richer.
12
Consider this; Trump’s excuses for Saudi Arabia’s actions are just practice. Trump is thinking that he can perpetrate the same kind of threats, intimidation and murder here in the US for his own benefit if he can get his political base to go along. It’s happened in many countries before; Germany, Russia, Cuba, Argentina, and many Arab countries. Given Trump’s constant and purposeful destruction of our democratic institutions, why should we believe that it can’t happen here or that he is above such heinous acts?
13
If anything, this show sone more than every tragic and unjust moment in history is ultimately used to further someone's political agenda.
Turkey tries to use the incident as leverage in their relationship with Saudi Arabia, the US to throw shade on an ally which has always been a shaky one marked by economic interests at best and with no doubt the Saudis will ultimately instrumentalize it as another attempt of the western world to villainise the Middle East.
With the most disheartening and discouraging revelation ultimately being that no-one will be held accountable and the political climate will not change. Not as long as there remain economic and political interests.
Just ask anyone in the Middle East what they think of Saudi Arabia. That alone will fill in the blanks in the US position since 1950 and earlier.
3
MBS ordered Kashogghi’s murder. That is now a fact. No fictitious excuse about a rogue general will change that fact. Turkey should indict MSB for murder.
5
i hate to be the pessimist here, but Turkey Says isn't exactly trustworthy... Has anyone HEARD these recordings ?
Ever so slowly I have come to the sad conclusion that our world is mostly run by narcissists and psychopaths. Anyone that makes some sort excuse for this is in that league. There is no excuse for what happened to Mr. Khashoggi and if there is someone out there among my fellow Americans that actually can summon one...please do us a favor and check into the nearest Mental Health Hospital because your humanity and decency left your mind a long time ago.
My disdain to the monsters that did this They stopped being human a long time ago.
My prayers are with his family and friends.
6
Extradite all Saudi diplomats and staff.
Terminate developmental aid to Saudi Arabia.
Terminate diplomatic status to MBS and put him on the no-fly list.
Seize MBS assets abroad and recompensate Kashoggi's family from these funds
Expel all members of the Royal family from other countries regardless if they are students, business people or pensioneers. WE DON'T TRAIN AIDS IN TORTURE OR KILLINGS OR DECEIT!
Start impeachment of Trump.
Vote Trump out of office, whatever is faster.
Investigate Kushner's cozy ties to MBS
Pass legislation severely limiting Saudi Arabia's ability to buy land or corporations in the US and other countries.
5
This murder is another blow against civilization speeding all of us along the path to cultural decline.
My condolences to the fiancé of Mr. Khashoggi as well as all his family members.
9
According to the New York Times, while Pompeo met with the Saudis Tuesday $100 million was deposited in a U.S. State Department account, supposedly the realization of a pledge that the Saudi Kingdom made to help offset U.S. costs for our efforts to restore and rebuild in Syria. What?
Now,couple that with the way Trump talks about Khashoggi as a Saudi citizen, repeating Saudi citizen and not an American citizen over and over again. Jamal Khashoggi was living in the U.S. writing for the Washington Post. The way Trump continually talks about Khashoggi not being an American citizen (making him none of our business, I suppose) makes me think that Trump gave the green light on this as part of the arms trade deal with the proviso that “you can’t do it here” or it will end up like the Kremlin and Skirpal. That $100 million is just the vig. Poor Jamal Khashoggi believed that he would be safe from the Saudis outside the Kingdom. Even he was fooled by Mohammad bin Salman. Even Jamal Khashoggi underestimated his treachery. And now it’s Trump’s turn. Mr. President this is the deal you made. You better watch your mouth AND your back.
And Someone keep a wide open eye on that money.
6
And our administration's take? It seems to be, "Our totalitarian friends should be considered innocent until proven guilty even if they are practiced in the art of coverup (like our administration)." And if they are guilty, what's a little dismemberment of a human being by our good friends? Our present administration and Congress won't get too excited.
3
The family in the family-owned state of Saudi Arabia and its regime, has long been among the most odious and barbaric on earth, and arguably in human history. Trump is only the latest in a long line of US presidents who shielded them and propped them up (although he does so more cravenly and idiotically). In my view, this undermines US credibility in championing human rights elsewhere in the world. In any case, this continued alliance with the Saudi royal family is a shameful aspect of US foreign policy, and well past its sell by date. Time for it to end.
9
Maybe this will be the event that shows Trump's supporters what he really is -- a horrible murder by a power-craving despot, with the President of the former Home of the Brave cowering at the thought of losing a military contract by standing up for what's right.
If you can't get that image in the frame clearly, your camera is busted and there's nothing to do but stop voting.
4
At this time it’s known by everybody and his aunt that Khashoggi was killed and dismembered inside the Saudi consulate in Turkey. Apparently the detail of his fingers’ chopping was a shock to Mr Pompeo, but he still kept silent. He likely wants to show his respects to His Royal Highness. For him there’re more sophisticated methods though, and Trump wants the arm’s sales alive, but the world is aghast. Iranians laugh out and loud, the Chinese laughed silently as usual, the Russians smile...
3
@José Ramón Herrera
None of the 9/11 terrorists were Iranian. I am just waiting that Mr. Bone Saw will find his ways to blame Iran for this murder.
3
Follow the money. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is getting paid off for his assistance.
10
If our gov't exchanges a silent complicity for arms deal cash, what's left worth defending? We'll reap a whirlwind worse than hurricanes.
All the money in the world aren't enough of a reward for what we will have lost. The ruin of on national soul- admittedly already tattered.
While we're looking, let's look at Yemen, too.
Whatever greatness survived within our Bill of Rights & Constitution and was held up for the world as possibility will be only a slogan now.
8
In his death poor Mr Khashoggi he is speaking more loudly, forcefully and persuasively about Saudi rulers' abuse of power and human rights violations than he ever might have written about. Rest in peace, you are continuing to shine a light on darkness.
11
The government of Turkey let out these and other leaks about the recordings on Wednesday, as Secretary of State Mike Pompeo visited Ankara, in an escalation of pressure on both Saudi Arabia and the United States for answers about Mr. Khashoggi, a prominent Saudi dissident journalist who lived in Virginia and wrote for The Washington Post.
http://www.translation.pk/
2
Terminate all development aid to Saudi Arabia, immediately and for good.
All nations that value freedom of speech of international law must expel Saudi Arabian diplomats in a joined action, all Saudi Arabian diplomats including all Saudi staff. The attempted murder in London was followed by an expulsion of the Russian diplomats. This is now real murder of the worst kind and a joined and united action must be stepped up to make it very clear that nobody is willing to tolerate this behavior. All other countries must speak with one voice, very clearly and very loudly.
Nations should consider stopping to buy Saudi oil. Nobody in Saudi Arabia will die, their cash reserves are larger than most other states' in the world. Just stop buying Saudi Oil.
The US (and other Western countries) must introduce legislation that prevents Saudi corporations from buying land or corporations in the US.
Severe ties now!
6
So how do we think that will be spun? Ah, making chopped salad? But how do we imagine he was chopped into small enough pieces to either be carried out in cases? There are barely any ground areas in the space that has enough space to bury him within the consulate. We, DJT states, "we do a lot of business in Saudi Arabia". Makes my skin crawl. That was a human being who did so much more for the oppressed in that country than dopy does between golf games. I'm so sorry for the Khashoggi family and his fiancé and so ashamed that the US is talking about how much business we do with the cold blooded murderers who, the majority of whom, flew the planes into the twin towers, which is just the beginning. A good run on sentence shows just the tip of my disgust.
9
This whole incident is disgusting beyond words. I hope the Turkish authorities are NOT using this as leverage against the Saudis and are genuinely horrified that such a thing can happen anywhere, let alone within their borders.
Viewing from outside, I have no doubt that the US under Trump has abandoned all pretense of moral authority.
In the past, this sort of thing has happened out of the public eye, such as the brutal murder of Congolese independence leader Patrice Lumumba, allowing deniability of those complicit in the crime.
Trump can create a twitter storm of unrelated stories as cover but this one cannot and should not go away – inconvenient though it may be for the narrative that the Saudis are the good guys and the Iranians are the bad guys.
Possibly the “leaks” are from Turkish insiders who are trying to prevent their own government from a cover-up.
6
For DJT and family it is all about the money. They seek personal riches. For Congress it is all about the military industrial complex. For USA it is hopeless. We are too far gone - read Nancy MacLean's "Democracy in Chains" for the full story behind those who hold all the real power.
8
A number of commentators have said the United States has sadly conflated Saudi Arabia with M.B.S., thanks to Jared Kushners bromance with M.B.S.
Could one envision a palace coup where M.B.S. is ousted as crown prince? Who are other contenders within the house of Saud? It seems a likely outcome that M.B.S, the heir apparent for only a year, will be toppled to allow a return to the status quo ante Khashoggi.
4
From Khashoggi's last column: “A state-run narrative dominates the public psyche, and while many do not believe it, a large majority of the population falls victim to this false narrative.”
That in large measure describes MAGA.
5
When did the day come when the US could be bought and sold.
Regan's beacon of light has truly dimmed now.
3
@Martin
Reagan started the decline.
6
North Korea has not assassinated an American journalist. Neither has Duarte. Neither has Putin. Neither has China. Neither has Iran. None are allies. Yet a thirty-something punk from Saudi Arabia has. Like Trump, lots of inherited wealth, arrogance and inconceivable power. MbS’s stooges will all be hung with condolence$ to their families. Wait and see.
12
" . . . people knowledgeable about the Saudi plans said the royal court was preparing to acknowledge Mr. Khashoggi’s killing and punish what they would describe as a rogue operator in the Saudi intelligence service."
There are no rogue operators in the Saudi intelligence service. Saudi operators know what would happen to them if they went rogue, since they've done it themselves to their enemies.
Trump's response on this is typical: “I’m not sure yet that it [the evidence] exists, probably does, possibly does,” is Trump-speak for "How much can I get away with."
13
There is some validity to why the uproar over this one killing when the Saudi's have been slaughtering Yemeni children by the thousands.
Our media have to answer that question as do our politicians. There are some lives that are valued more than others by Washington. After all, we killed 500,000 Iraqi children and never batted an eye.
Secretary Albright even said that this was "a small price to pay for advancing America's interests." Of course we didn't pay, those children paid the price for "our interests."
But in a way we all paid as our country has fallen to the level of tyrants, thugs and dictators. You have to go back to the days of Stalin's purges or the racial purification and living space programs of Germany in WWII to encounter such cold, calculated killing.
And this will continue as long as we sit back and allow other to decide what is done in our name. I urge all readers of conscious to find a way to say "not in my name." History records these deeds and remembers those who stood up and said no.
There were many like Solzenetzen or the White Rose resisters. By what name should we be called?
7
What would MBS be planning next? Cutting of the feet of some of those who refused to attend his conference. Never mind that they are foreign citizens. He will probably not touch American, Russian and Chinese citizens, but may try his luck with all others. The heritage of Arabia is one of severing limbs, heads etc. of opponents and it is a heritage that Arabs have never disavowed. There can never be any reform in these countries and those who believe that there can be are far too gullible.
7
Have we left the misdemeanor part of the show and entered the high crimes act? No longer a reality TV show. A real life, crime drama unfolding before our eyes.
May Mr. Khashoggi rest in peaceful slumber.
15
" Saudi Arabia “has been a very important ally,” Mr. Trump said. He noted again, as he has repeatedly since Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance, that the kingdom was spending billions of dollars on American weapons."
Just Great.
We will forget and or avoid the most brutal acts by a Government or Royal leader of a Nation because we earn huge profits selling weapons to them (and despite the crimes and horrors they are inflicting on Yemen and its many innocent civilians with them!).
Proving once more and showing again in just another way how lacking in moral values and leading in human Rights the U.S is and how money, profit and gain will almost always be seen as much more important and greater priority than the welfare, safety or security of so many people ....be they foreigners or actual American citizens themselves.
8
Now would be a very good time to add some professionals to the Trump clown car, someone who wouldn't treat it as a sideshow, or worse, an instructional course.
8
One seemingly "minor' death precipitated the First World War. What will this "minor" death precipitate? Hopefully, the first real war against the Trump administration and the complicit Congress by the American people and their hard-won principles.
9
Blood money, that's all I can say about Trump's response to all of this, placing more value on selling weapon of war than ethics or humanity. At least he is consistent.
8
"“I’m not sure yet that it exists, probably does, possibly does,” Mr. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, adding: “I’ll have a full report on that” when Mr. Pompeo returned. “That’s going to be the first question I ask.”
Still no communications on air travel?
Shocking!
17
The Saudis will go with the rogue interrogation gone wrong story and some of those who conducted the state sponsored murder will be held accountable and executed. That's the way business is done in that criminal backwash.
5
"What shall it profit a man (country) if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul." Mk. 8:36
Money is an amplifier. If it falls on weakness, self-indulgence, and venality, then it amplifies such weakness, makes it louder and more extreme. If it finds strength, strength of mind, clarity, and durable character, then likewise that strength is amplified.
I suppose that the operative question in this hyper-commercialized, hyper-monetized age is - What isn't for sale?
7
Trump has received 10's of Millions from the Saudi royal family, and is now defending them as a representative of our government.
This is corruption in our government at the highest office.
47
Trump knows what happened, regardless of his equivocations. Yet his most sincere argument is that the Saudis will buy all those millions of dollars in arms from someone else if not us. This is abject moral failure. It is unacceptable from any human being anywhere let alone our President.
17
Hearsay is excluded from criminal trials. And there will be no trial in this matter. The Saudis may have had a pressing reason to eliminate a man they viewed as a traitor. And continuing a search for the actual perpetrator will only lead to a breakdown in relations. The world would be better off coming to terms with Islamic Terrorism rather than this absurd focus on a Saudi grandstander who decided to defy his government. It's way past time to move on.
1
American attitudes, policy and social values by too many of its Leaders, Wealthy and Influential:
1. Believe where and what the most Money, Gain and Profit provides...the actual truth always takes the back seat those.
2, He is Right. Men will always benefit from the doubt or when its against a Woman's claims and get away with almost anything if enough money is also put in play.
3. Countries, people and men will so often get away with Murder if enough money is at stake no matter the act, truth or crime.
4.Money is the root of all Motivations that are so easily committed and regardless of what is done, most likely to have any consequences not acted on nor justice and Truth prevail.
5.Might makes Right especially in regards to that of the Mighty Dollar.
6.There is a price to pay for any wrongs comitted...the worst thing committed, the higher the price that must be paid.
(In U.S Dollars preferably)
Wherever or if Money becomes the Root of ALL Evil...abandon hope all ye that enter or live there!
10
If all of this is true (and of course it is) then why exactly do we think Iran is some kind of deadly threat but Saudi Arabia is the Arab version of Sesame Street? What is really scary is how America denies and justifies anything it wants to. Exactly what does the US lead anymore except the list of countries most despised by the rest of the world?
21
It's folly to believe "Turkish Intelligence," especially in the the middle of a diplomatic standoff between the two nations. President Erdogan and King Salman are both in competition to gain the favor of President Trump -- the only man who might be able to bring sanity back to the Middle East.
This is the beginning of another dark age. Let's hope this doesn't last 1000 years like the last dark ages. We can end it 2020 by voting Trump out, and make inroads on this 2018 election.
8
If this outspoken journalist is expendable to the US government today, how many of us are protected and safe in the pursuit of happiness?
17
I really believe that a heinous act like this carries its own punishment. It is like an ancient greek tragedy. What was done was done with such arrogance and such will to deceive that it becomes an act against God.
7
Trump, Putin, mob bosses, cartels, and the Saudi Prince MBS fear reporters, especially when they are questioned as to how they make and hide their money. Mr. Khashoggi asked too many questions and challenged MBS and was murdered. Putin poisons, pushes them out windows, or arranges drive by shootings. A smiling, prosperous looking Mike Pompeo is seen trying to figure out how to sweep Mr. Khashoggi's murder under the magic carpet. May be Mr. Trump needs to revisit the magic ball the Saudis had him looking into to see if they can get their cover stories straight. Perhaps another sword dance will help. Just be careful Mr. Trump the Saudis would not want you to fall on your own sword.
9
This is a classic of how brutal dictatorships emerge.
A young thin-skinned honcho undemocraticaly comes to power. He brazenly murders dissidents, silences the free press, and imprisons political enemies. Western "allies", especially America, conveniently look the other way because of "interests" they share with the dictator in training. At best, they issue halfhearted condemnation, then business as usual a few days later. Young Dictator learns he can always test the limits and get away with it.
Fast forward thirty years. Dictator is fully matured, he understands the nuances of foreign diplomacy, expert at manipulating the corrupt, hypocritical, greedy, and spineless Western leaders. He has murdered 2 million of his own people.
Then a newbie American president comes into power, but the Dictator does not respect him - he's seen them all. New cowboy president no longer shares "interests" with Dictator, ignores the fact that America created this Dictator in the first place. He overthrows Dictator, and throws the entire region into chaos.
This is the playbook that repeats itself every generation, and it's bound to happen in Saudi Arabia. Stay tuned thirty years from today - at the very most.
9
The article about the brutal and barbaric killing of Mr. Khashoggi made me literally sick to my stomach. The sad and disturbing part of this tragedy is, like many other disturbing evens, here and abroad, will creat despair and anger, and fade away, as another unbelievable event takes its place. We’re getting used to it, it is the norm any more. But I hope, not only people of the world, but especially, the media, the journalists, and writers, keep the momentum and their outrage going. It is disturbing that money and power, has replaced decency, and the sense of right and wrong in this country. Consequently, there is no hope, that this administration would do what is right in this case.
24
If torture, dismemberment and decapitation were inflicted upon a Saudi dissident in a foreign country, I shudder to think what suffering must be experienced by those dissidents and rights activists - a good many of them women - arrested in Saudi Arabia and held in its jails.
20
I dont know why Turkey is only talking.If it has proof ,present it to the world and let it know whether Saudi Arabia is involved or not.No one will believe if the proof is not presented,least of all the American President.
2
You think that Trump does not know who and how Jamal was killed? considering the power of US intelligence and US Turkish Intelligence Partnership? He knows very well how he was killed and he knows MBS gave the order. Let me tell you something, in countries that are ruled by dictators or monarchs, no one can dare to kill someone who is public figure without the order of highest official in power. No one can dare. that is a fact and that is how it's been for decades. I live in a country like Saudi Arabia and I know how this works. The order has come directly from MBS. period.
30
We have heard of Saudi's style of punishment before, so no surprised, just sad that we need these medieval characters to be our allies.
5
This dastardly act was committed in the Saudi consulate. One wonders what other illegal acts are being committed inside Saudi consulates and embassies around the world.
Hopefully, surveillance and intelligence gathering at these facilities will be ramped up by their host country.
7
From the same sources, Mr. Khashoggi was there for ten minutes before he was assaulted, eventually to be killed by fellow Saudis.
It is ruthless realpolitik. If MBS claims not to know, not to have ordered the death, he is lying. If he is such an alpha male he should man up and tell the world how tough and cruel he really is.
This killing, this martyrdom of Jamal Khashoggi reveals the Saudi State to be out of control and should be isolated.
15
The key issue that will dominate the forthcoming months and years is how to cope with a killer monarchy that's a danger to its own citizens, to foreigners (including professional and students travelling to Saudi Arabia as well as US citizen making the Haj), and to peace in the region. I would not be surprised if, at some point, the issue is debated in the UN and in the International Court of Justice.
4
Where is Congress? Where are our government voices?
Where is our humanity?
Our Democracy?
I am deeply saddened. From this, we cannot recover--
27
The author of the book Homo Sapiens posits that the Declaration of Independence is what binds millions of Americans together, and that it contains the ideals our government strives towards. Human rights are among them. And yet, as I read this article, I could imagine Mr. Trump doing calculations in his head: Arms deal worth multi-million dollars versus a human life. How much is a human life worth to the leader of the United States?
30
The obvious fact that President Trump suffers moral and ethical paralysis in reaction to this torture and murder of Mr. Khashoggi, a legal American resident, should tell Americans all we need to know about Trump.
102
@Jim Steinberg
Oh my, torture and murder … based on anonymous second- or third-hand hearsay. Then again, some people seem far less interested in evidence than in an accusation.
@Jim Steinberg Frankly I suspect that Mr. Trump is not so far from secretly wishing he could do the same to journalists in our Country. After all - he has been declaring them publicly as bad people for a long while now.
8
@Jim Steinberg:
You're on the right track, but missing the mark:
Trump has consistently and continually proven that he has an utter and total lack of both morals and ethics.
8
So an anonymous Turkish official "described" a recording that some unidentified source supposedly possesses, that was allegedly made by Khashoggi's Apple Watch. No claim is made that the "Turkish official" actually heard the recording, nor is an explanation given of how some outside party would get a recording from Khashoggi's Apple Watch.
It seems very strange that the Turkish authorities would leak such information rather than transparently presenting it for all the world to see.
7
Actually, what’s even stranger is that a Saudi dissident walked into the Saudi consulate in Turkey and never re-appeared.
10
@Randy --
You're showing a naiveté regarding the byzantine machinations that govern international politics and intrigue.
NYT current article refers to “...images are the result of digital manipulation, and what, in its most ominous form, is called deep fakes: technology that makes it possible to show people saying things they never said, doing things they never did.”
Are you thinking this is a case of deep fakery on someone’s part? Where is Mr. Khashoggi, then? In witness protection?
My heart goes out to Mr. Khashoggi and his family. If the allegations are true, I can't imagine the terror that he must have endured in his last moments. Diplomats and their premises are governed by the Vienna convention. They lose that protection when they engage, aid or abet murder. If United States does not take a strong stand and hold those accountable for this heinous crime then 'liberty and justice for all' would just become empty words.
15
It needs to be said--This is really well written! kudos to the nyt. first rate.
3
Having grown up in Argentina, this is not the first time I have observed a US government support torture and look the other way if it served its so called interests. Interestingly, the only time, Latin America could count on the US to defend human rights was during the Carter presidency. Needless to say, a Democrat.
When Trump calls the press the enemy of the people, he’s wishing he could do what the Saudis did.
80
Chopping a reporter to death because he dared challenge the rule of the Saudi prince is the epitome of everything our founding fathers stood against. As the President of the United States subjugates censure of such a demonic act to the promise of cheap oil or a massive weapons deal, we suddenly find our moral standing at a new low. Let us forget life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They mean nothing anymore. A school bus of Yemeni children bombed to death by the Saudi regime means nothing. Veterans from the American Revolution onwards apparently fought for nothing but our right to stock market riches and cheap oil.
63
@Big Bucks:
I absolutely agree with your prima facie accurate summary of our sordid situation, excepting one fine point: ". . . we *suddenly* [my emphasis] find our moral standing at a new low" is incorrect -- our moral standing PLUNGED on January 20, 2016, and has remained on a downward slope ever since.
7
This sicking story shows the hubris and back door dealings of power.
We have the threat of the oil shortages of 73, big problem for the world - maybe not for the US, though the $$ that the Saudi's pour into the US is significant.
Which is has Mr Trump doing the dancing bear act.
Turkey wants that guy that lives in the US, who they say started the coup. (That guy should be worried)
And well the Saudis' just don't know what all the fuss is about - they should be able to kill people as they want!
The big question is where is Justice and what will America do for Justice.
8
Reminded of Churchill's comment to a female dinner guest. . We always knew Trump would sleep with the Saudis', or anybody else. Now he has named his price
9
His fingers were cut off while he was alive. It's like we are back in midevil times. I am so horrified and terrified of what will happen next.
15
Saudis have wonderful role models. Remember when Trump boasted that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and there would be no consequences? Why should the Saudis be worried about murdering journalists?
26
November 6. Repeat after me: November 6. It's time for a regime change, and it can start on November 6. VOTE!
42
@Ann
Why wait til the 6th? Get it done earlier with early voting!
2
As Judge Judy would say, 'This has the ring of truth.' The absolute contempt the member of the kill team has for the duly authorized representative to the country of Turkey rings true for a person carrying out an 'executive action'. He's there doing the true business for the head of state and knows it would not be a bluff to tell the counselor that he's a dead man walking.
3
We have a president of the United States whose business has received tens of millions of dollars (hundreds of millions?) from Saudi Arabia. And likely will in the future. This same president is providing cover for the same country after they brutally murdered a permanent US resident and member of the press.
Trump is elevating his own personal interests above the national interest.
Do you understand it now - Republicans and Trump supporters?
The emoluments clause in Article 1 prevents even small gits to public servants from a foreign government for this very reason - to protect the country.
Presidents need to make public their tax returns.
They need to divest themselves of all personal business interests before taking office.
He daily demeans the office of the presidency, weighs all things by personal gain and is dragging the whole country down with him.
He needs to resign or be removed from office.
20
Is there a reason why Turkey should share what they have with the US when it's clear Trump continues to support the Saudis? Even if they did, Trump isn't going to jeopardize his 'Kushy' business relationship or that of his son-in-law's.
3
@Fran123
Turkey seem to be sharing with the US people, not Trump; they are very definitely two different things.
2
Trump and his secretary of state are without honor. Their reaction to the torture and murder of Khashoggi, who as a permanent resident of the U.S. was under our nation's protection, makes this nation to appear to be nothing more than a second rate power more interested in money than the fundamental principles of democracy.
18
Think about the concept of a free press for a moment. They say it’s mightier than the sword. But could it sometimes be against the famous but ambiguous statement of “American National Interests”? You bet it could! In the case of Saudi Arabia, we think a free press will cause positive political climate change (See, those words are like a Rubiks Cube!). We think that now not only women are allowed to drive because of it, but other much needed individual rights are gained due to it as well. But there is a down side sometimes too and when the down side is clearly against U.S. national interests, people quite literally get killed. I’m not saying that this time it was the U.S. behind it, but it has happened in the past and I am saying that too much positive political change in Saudi Arabia too fast could spell doom to U.S. desires in the region, because some of “the people” there quite literally do not like west, do not like America or Israel or anything that does not prey to Mecca five times a day! We know this. Somewhere on someone’s spreadsheet index of potential dissidence in the region, the numbers went down when he was killed and, no, champagne celebrating evil was not poured when it happened but the bells of morality didn’t ring either and it just so happens that we now got the perfect President for a situation like that in office, President Trump. He’s the guy, funny enough, that can indeed stand in front of a camera and say a human life is only worth so much money.
1
I'll say it here and now. Nothing will come from it, everyone involved is safely back in Saudi Arabia and the current administration will ignore it. More to the point the administration will be jealous of the Saudi's ability to get away with it. Move along nothing to see here.
23
We see the beginning of a repeat performance by POTUS of his Helsinki Act. This time it is rogue fighters instead of a 400 lbs. guy sitting on his bed. These brutal dictators are playing Trump the chump, and his "love" for them far outweighs the needs and security of America. Trump says that the King strongly denies having anything to do with the murder and I believe him. His son's BFF is MSB, who is becoming more and more the head of this horrific act. The Trump family is so financially tied into Russia and Saudi Arabia, that he can't say anything bad about either one. The only way MSB will be held accountable is if Congress steps up to the plate and does the right thing for a change.
5
A horrific murder occurred in an embassy--the President of the United States should be standing up and insisting that the truth, in the name of human decency, be uncovered.If his beloved ally has nothing to hide, then it should be rushing to be cooperative and collaborative in bringing the criminals to justice who have besmirched their culture in the eyes of the rest of the planet. If we had a President and not an amoral, smash-and-grab administration's mob boss.
27
@JLP:
Alas, as has been acutely obvious since the day Trump took office, we indeed have been subjected to an immoral, smash-and-grab cretin in the Oval Office.
Only adding to the toxic atmosphere is the tragic reality that roughly half of our citizenry have donned blinders and drank deeply of the MAGA Kool-Aide -- true believers.
They're oblivious to the reality they've wrought, just as those who once though the Earth to be flat.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
1
Trump may actually be a secret admirer of the brutal sheikh and his putinesque brutality. In fact, he'd probably do the same thing to people he'd love to silence if only he could get away with it.
19
I don't think it is a secret. Trump has been very open.
4
Where does the EU stand in all this? They have been conspicuously silent. The least they could is to seize MBS s assetsif found culpable
4
So many times I have wondered if we have finally hit rock bottom. Seeing Pompeo disrespectfully grinning like he was there for a casual social visit rather than to hold Saudi Arabia accountable for the horrific murder of an American resident and reporter for one of the top American newspapers reminds me that this administration's debasement of American values grinds on and on and on. Do these people not know that when someone has been brutally tortured and murdered your face should not be smiling?
32
@Joanna Stasia NYC:
While it's patently obvious that Trump and his minions have managed to damage our nation's reputation and credibility on the world stage in a big way, the bad news is that, barring a miracle (UFO abduction of Fearless Leader, perhaps? One can hope, can't they?), before he's out of office our country will be reduced to a laughing stock to be pitied, given the current trajectory.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
1
So; to update the boxscore: this American President has called for the arrest of his opponent Hilary Clinton, denigrated the military career of John McCain, fired an FBI director, denigrated the law enforcement agencies of his own country, denigrated an attorney general that he picked, trashed the leaders of Canada, Great Britain and France and raised the national debt with tax breaks for the wealthiest of the wealthy. He has a man crush on Vladimir Putin, is engaged in a loving relationship with the North Korean leader and now, apparently, is locked in an embrace of another thug who sells gasoline real cheap.
I wonder if Donald Trump has ever watched JFK’s inaugural speech? Or Dwight Eisenhower’s or Ronald Reagan’s?
Good American’s voted for change and they got it. But they sure deserved better than this.
83
@Timothy:
Those Americans who chose to vote for this uber-narcissistic, inane manchild could only do so by being in a state of deliberate denial of who this cretin actually is - a "Your Fired!" reality TV star who, despite inheriting considerable wealth from his rich father, couldn't even manage to keep Atlantic City casinos solvent (?!?).
Then you have Trump University -- an outright scam, deliberately structured to strip money from starry-eyed hopefuls who were destined to be fleeced from Day One.
I have sympathy for those who chose to swallow the inflammatory rhetoric and mass emotional manipulation . . . rather than make the effort to pull back the curtain only to discover the Emperor has no clothes.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
What we’re seeing is the gradual unraveling of the American government, the decline being led by the Trump administration.
It was inevitable that as time passed on Trumps White House it would be increasingly difficult for Trump to conceal who and what he really is.
Now we are getting close to the unvarnished truth about Trump. His feeble attempt to fool Americans has revealed a president willing to condone murder by an ally government for the sake of hard cash.
As an American expatriate in Europe it is easier to perceive Trumps manipulations. For Europeans Trump appears absurd!
28
@michael kittle:
I agree with your sentiments in general, however ---
You're a bit behind the curve: the "unvarnished truth" about Trump has been glaringly obvious and wholly visible for anyone truly paying attention to see -- and from well before Day One of his ersatz Presidency . . .
The presidential debates revealed with overwhelming abundance the utter unfitness of this inane manchild, "You're Fired!" television bore; anyone actually thinking Trump a financial genius needed only to take quick look at his adventures in Atlantic City. (It takes a major degree of failure to manage a casino into bankruptcy.)
I've no sympathy; you get what you pay for.
Sad.
Bigly Sad.
6
Absolutely horrific.
But here is the art of the deal.
The Saudis will blame some army officials and isolate the prince.
Turkey will get billions of dollars from Saudi to hide the evidence and bail Turkey out of its mess.
Trump will get Saudi support for their mutual enemy - Iran.
The republicans will do nothing as usual
Trump will get billions for his hotels etc.
The losers: the press, Mr. Khashoggi and America’s standing as the moral beacon of good.
America has always been more than a country- it’s been an idea, an aspiration and a dream that everyone wants. Well that idea is dying. Being killed just like Khashoggi.
13
I would like to see an article explaining the relationship between Turkey & Saudi. What does each country want out of this whole situation?
5
I grieve for Khashoggi. I have so little hope that Trump will go much beyond his "rogue killer" story, even in the face of this gruesome evidence. It feels like we are tethered to a monster, being dragged into an abyss of lies.
11
It seems that after almost 2 years of Trump, the only American value left standing is money...
23
A U.S. president's and his family's financial interests seem to outweigh the interests of the nation and a basic human right--the right to live.
As the president makes excuses for thugs who seem to have killed a human being in cold blood, leave alone his occupation as a journalist, the Congress does little. The Supreme Court is, of course, stacked to serve the interests of the ruling party.
How low have we sunk as a country! Sad, indeed!
14
@RK:
Indeed.
As history shows, all Republics eventually fail.
I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime but here we are -- with the Trump crew at the helm -- and fully fifty percent of our citizenry having drunk deep of the Trump Kool-Aid. Ergo, here we are . . . the leader of our nation a man utterly lacking in morals, ethics, and dangerously short on both maturity and intelligence, denigrating our standing on world stage on a weekly, if not daily basis, by his inane utterances and malformed beliefs.
Ergo, we've arrived at the brink of going over the cliff as a viable nation -- if not already in the slow death spiral. We could not have possibly elected a worse leader for these fractious times, worldwide. Small wonder everywhere one looks, one finds a country unraveling.
Ah well. What can you expect from a populous enthralled with the Kardashians and their ilk -- not exactly a positive endorsement for sophisticated thinkers.
Sad.
Bigly sad.
1
It seems probable that this murder was ordered (I was about to use the word "orchestrated" but that would have implied some degree of careful planning) by MBS. It also seems probable that King Salman had no clue his son was behind this. Will he have his son arrested? Will MBS have his hit team killed to cover up the murder? The next few days should be absolutely fascinating!
3
Haven't looked through all the comments, but by now someone surely has noted the similarities to the death of Cicero? Nearly 2,000 years later and still the same reaction by despotic power to criticism. Here's hoping that an Octavian comes along to take care of MBS. The only progress we've made is that now we have audio?
23
How extraordinary, how tragic, and how large a loss to everyone.
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," - Then-candidate Donald Trump, Sioux City Iowa, January 24, 2016.
I now doubt I'll be surprised if I read that as a reported event.
Vote November 6th. Help everyone you know to vote, as well.
And subscribe to organizations that engage journalists like Mr. Khashoggi. We need more heroes like him
14
Trump's questioning, or doubting, the existence of the tapes surrounding Khashoggi's death insults not only American intelligence, but the intelligence of every American as well.
His refusal to call out the Saudi's is once again reminiscent of his description of Russian involvement in our elections as possibly carried out by a "400-pound" hacker sitting in his bedroom. Makes us wonder, once again, where his financial interests lie.
Show us your tax returns, Mr. Trump.
40
@Jim In Tucson:
(From a Tucson Native) --
From the first day Trump was sworn in (let us remember, in front of less-than-overflowing crowds -- an extremely early reflection of the general population's lack of confidence in him) his presence as the status of President of the United States has been an unbroken continuous insult to the not just the American citizenry, but the world at large.
Sad.
Bigly Sad.
6
I don't think the Saudi leadership would have dared to do this if they didn't think Trump would just sweep it under the rug.
11
Does this President have no shame? He speaks of arms trade deals in the face of this atrocity? Has he no moral compass? He is unfit and an embarasment to America. Congress must act. My heart goes out to the loved ones of Mr. Khashoggi. President Trump has put all journalists at risk.
40
@Janet DiLorenzo no, this President has no shame. That has been clear since he was elected and even before.
5
@Janet DiLorenzo:
1. NO -- he has NO concept of shame. His utter self-immersion in Ego and Narcissism absolutely preclude any such insight.
2. NO -- he has no moral compass; this is continuously demonstrated, prima facie, in his Tweets (aka, his "Twits")
3. We have only ourselves to blame . . . the once sophisticated electorate we had has largely abandoned any demonstrated capacity of nuanced thinking and Realpolitik considerations before casting votes . . . It's all about sound bites which cater to the below 100 IQ citizenry, salted with a heavy dose of tribalism.
Pogo had it right.
Sad.
Bigly Sad.
3
I have tried to search this entire commentary for the word "petro dollar" and it comes up zero. I think you all need to understand this very important relation between US and the Saudis. It probably explains the Iraqi war better than anything else, as well as why the Saudis got away with the 9/11 terror attack on NY completely scot free. If this page - article - is not a joke, but that you are sincerely interested in how things work, please google petro dollar. The US and world economy is based on this, replacing the gold standard in finance, and incidentally explains why Trump is not too keen on "understanding" that we need to cut carbon dioxide emission - oil exhaust - fumes. It is very serious and the big guys knows this.
13
This is totally baffling? Mr. Khashoggi escaped with his life from Saudi Arabia after angering the Royal Family whom he had earlier hobnobbed with! Why would he venture into this trap knowing there was a price on his head to begin with? What was the inducement to take such high risks that did cost him his life within minutes of entering the consulate with his Apple Watch transmitting his every move, murder and dismembering..? Very disturbing mystery...Will Turkey, his homeland declare war? Will the E.U. Divest themselves from all Saudi military, economic contracts? The USA, Canada, Etc...Fat chance!
9
Turkey is not the journalist's "homeland" and he went to the consulate for paperwork that was necessary to get married.
Mr. Khashoggi planned to marry his longtime fiancé and had to obtain documents confirming his divorce fro a previous wife in order to marry. I’m just wondering why he couldn’t have obtained those documents from the Saudi Embassy in Washington DC!
1
I must speak out. I lived in Saudi Arabia from 1979 to 1983. My husband was an engineer for a Greek company that worked for Aramco. I worked there also, although under cover because women can do NOTHING in Saudi, not walk without a man, ride a bicycle, drive a car. I thought I would go insane! I could write a book. But I remember every Friday, people would gather in the town square, be it Jeddah or my first place, Dhahran, and watch the latest miscreant get his hand or head chopped off. I stood by the sidelines once, not knowing why all these people were there, screaming and shouting. I still remember the screaming and keening. My ex-husband was a little closer and he saw it, nature red in tooth and claw with these people. There were yelps of joy, crying by the left behind loved ones. This was and is Saudi Arabia. I lived in fear the entire time I was there. Friends we knew who were stupid enough to bring alcohol into the kingdom were sent to jail, all their teeth punched out and then sent back home. If you don't believe any of this, just ask any ARAMCO employee. So yes, I truly believe that these tribal barbarians did kill the journalist in the worst way possible. Any sort of decent civilization by-passed them a long time ago. Sorry, I believe very strongly in this, because I lived through it.
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first a resident of America journalist who was a pain.
next an American journalist who is a pain.
Friendly fire, an air crash, terrorist kidnapping.
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Mr. Khashoggi was a US permanent resident. "U.S. permanent residents have the right to be protected by all laws of the United States".
It is clear that this Administration will do all it can to minimize and/or cover up the truth of the butchering of Mr. Khashoggi.
Seems to lead to certain questions. What if the Saudis had butchered, for example, a US Democratic Senator, in Turkey? Obviously Trump couldn't minimize the crime or abdicate US responsibility by repeating "he wasn't a US citizen" but would he say, "well, he was only a Democrat"? It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did. But had it been Sen. Lindsay Graham who was butchered what would Trump do? Would he still be talking about "economics"?
Most know the quote, attributed to many, the punchline of which is certainly apt for this Administration and the apparent brutal murder of Mr. Khashoggi, a US permanent resident:
“We have established what you are—we are simply haggling about the price.”
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As witnesses to this gruesome murder we are sickened, outraged that Trump and the givers of the gold necklace may elude the consequences of their actions.
Mr Khosaggi spoke out and was silenced ..who is next if we do not demand consequences. The rule of law is not a business contract with perks.
Wake up, stand up..this is very very wrong!
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I wondered why Trump wore that gold necklace. Of course!
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In an uncertain world, it’s nice to know there is one constant:
Mr. Trump and his “administration” will always, always, always do the wrong thing.
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I would ask the NYT to put equivalent investigative effort into identifying Saudi sovereign investment funds so that they can be refused or returned.
Investment funds that accept Saudi money should be shunned. You can start with SoftBank.
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Welcome to an amoral, value-free America, courtesy of Trump and Pompeo.
How long does it take to get MBS’ lies straight?
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I’m not sure tacit condoning of or help covering up death by decapitation and other forms of torture is merely “amoral”. To most of the people on this planet it is immoral.
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Did any of you also read that the audio came via bluetooth from Khashoggi's Apple wristwatch, directly to the cloud or to an iPhone nearby (presumably his fiancee waiting outside)? And that the Saudis tried to get access to his watch using his (severed) finger, not realising that it requires a PIN code unlike the iPhone.
If true, it's a grim but interesting irony that they were exposed by such a useful and today, commonplace technology. Tyrants are finding it harder and harder to cover up their crimes.
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How did we fall so low as a government that we are getting moral pressure from the Turks?
And make no mistake about it, they are right.
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Ideology and hard cash trump moral imperatives in the horror show that is this America made great again.
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No amount of weapon sales is worth allowing ourselves to do business with a nation of barbarians. Our problem is we have allowed ourselves to coddle foreign oil at the expense of being able to respond to the inhumanities abundant in many of those nations. We need to uphold our own ethics and morality, and not blur the lines simply to achieve a profit in weapons of war or any other lucrative compromising of our ideals. If your goal is to make America great, that is how you do it.
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Wait, what? Former US intelligence officials consider their Turkish counterparts “competent and trustworthy”, but not the “government-controlled” Turkish media?
I’d say Turkish domestic intelligence equally falls under the purview of “government-controlled”. It’s clearly in their interest to counteract the rise of modernized Saudi Arabia.
For once I agree with Trump and Pompeo; wait for the facts, the evidence, consider all implications before making a measured response.
Maybe the combination of compelling preliminary evidence, the size of the impending weapons deal with SA, and the sheer intensity of global public scrutiny and backlash finally cornered this administration into handling a situation like adults.
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The US got played by Turkey and Saudi this time. Turkey for exposing evidence after evidence of Saudi wrongdoing. Saudi for the 100mil remitted to Trump (for influencing mid-terms?)
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The bone saw left Arabia before the interrogation, so it was never to be just an interrogation and they were never going to stop after they just cut off his fingers.
15 senior government official rogues on 2 planes without the crown prince knowing? nope.
The Saudis sent were forensic experts like in the CSI TV show, so the evidence was fully cleaned up. Apparently it was painted over and the saudis are delaying the start of the investigation until the paint dries completely. Why investigate the site?
And then Pompeo says the prince assured him nobody will be protected, but Pompeo forgets to say if the prince included himself in those who will not be protected. I would say that is a key omission, Mike.
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Possibly the prince will blame the King for this. Get rid of the king and become the king himself! It’s happened before there.
These guys are the worst....
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Now that the Turkish government has repeatedly described the evidence, they ought to release that material to the public and thereby settle the doubts being cast on their version of events. Their delay in doing so is most troubling.
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How many times do we as a nation sell our souls? Do we join this amoral - and often immoral - administration and look askance at Trump’s lies? Or do we finally proclaim “Enough.” and stand for what is right and true?
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Even though the evidence was far more tenuous, when Skripal and his daughter were poisoned (and nearly killed) in Britain by the Kremlin, Theresa May was swift and unequivocal in her response. When this American resident and Washington Post correspondent was brutally executed by the Saudis (pretty much) on national TV, Trump still blames the 400-pound hacker in New Jersey. I think I can find 110 billion reasons why.
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But that happened IN Great Britain and to actual British citizens, so the British PM spoke strongly.
I’m not a trumpuppet, but will point out that it would be all the worse if Khashoggi was a US citizen murdered whilst walking down a country lane inside the USA heartland all my with his child. That would be the proper analogy. That, and if he had been in witness protection after for years providing the CIA with important national security intelligence.
The most disturbing thing about the entire affair is the US Governments willingness to make excuses for the Saudi Regimes brutality.
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this is a serious question, As far as I know, many US presidents have cozied up to the Saudi royal family, Democrat and Republican. I didn't think Trump would be much as he doesn't always follow the usual path of others, but it appears he too is trying to avoid upsetting the Saudis. My question is why? Is he somehow beholden to them, indebted? oil?, do we get a large % of our oil from them?, is it just that they are a good customer for our weapons?...money right?
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The administration is not revolted and outraged by the murder of a journalist. They hate the press that threatens their power. It makes you wonder if they would turn a blind eye to this in our own country.
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These are thre consequences of insulting our allies. We're, as a country, stand alone with a president that is leading us along with HIS conflicts of interest.
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Be careful where tread in this world. An individual has no value.
The powers that be decide.
And still there are brave souls.
History repeats.
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If necessary, tie Trump down and force him to listen to the audio. He won't do it unless he is forced.
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In December, 2016 the headlines were:
Saudi Arabia bans journalist for criticising Donald Trump
Jamal Khashoggi said Mr Trump's Middle East stance is 'contradictory'. Looks like Trump and the Saudi’s finally got their revenge.
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The crisis is so deep that Bezos might refuse to ship Amazon products to anyone in Saudi Arabia.
Everyone is complaining that sanctions should be leveled, but even Bezos, the owner of the newspaper where Khashoggi published his opinions, has not taken steps against Saudi Arabia.
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More US actions emboldening autocrats, wherever they are around the world. Thanks goodness that Turkey, led by another autocrat, is preventing Saudi Arabia, enabled by the US, from whitewashing the whole affair.
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Too bad that the Bush Jr. administration sanctioned torture because we are no longer in a position to condemn others who practice it. It is well established science that torture accomplishes nothing other than forcing the victim to say whatever it takes to stop this inhuman behavior.
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I don’t disagree with the comments condemning the Saudi regime but please keep in mind that the evidence comes from the Turkish regime that is another brutal dictatorship. Do you remember Erdogan’s bodyguards beating up protesters in our own Washington, D.C.?
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@PaulN
Yes, I do remember; and I remember the silence from Trump.
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It’s emolumentary, my dear Watson. Having a president whose, and whose family’s, liquidity is dependent on a steady inflow of Saudi cash is a really bad idea right now.
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We have not heard enough about Kushner's role in cozying up to MBS. They apparently formed a close bond, ganging up on Qatar, when Kushner needed a big bail-out. As a senior aide, as well as a family member to Trump, Kushner forged an unethical, and perhaps even illegal relationship with the Saudis. With all the business deals involving numerous countries, the Trump family is operating an international cartel, selling out the interests of the United States of America.
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Our economic deals, contrary to this quote from the president, should have NOTHING to do with this.
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Why so surprised at the Trump administration's response? It has already shown a preference for tyrants over democrats. Not to mention that the U.S. has "partnered" with dictators and repressive regimes for generations. This is nothing new--just more blatant than usual.
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Gas. It's all about the gas. Can't have the Saudis hiking oil just ahead of an election. No that wouldn't do at all.
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So what, Trump isn't deciding if the tapes exist based on what Turkey gives him, but how Saudi Arabia replies when asked whether they were taped?
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For the first time since the Vietnam War, I am embarrassed for my country. Like so many American citizens, I’ve become inured to the latest outrage of the day, but suddenly I feel blind sided and anguished. That an American President—the leader of the free world—would advance a conspiracy theory involving “rogue” actors to explain the killing of a dissident journalist, in service to a brutal dictatorial regime, and in contradiction to his own intelligence service, has crossed a new bright line. I am ashamed of my country.
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As a regular reader of the Taiwan's United Daily News, a popular Chinese language paper, they provide a gruesome description of the killing. Sad but nothing Trump could do even he knows the truth.
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Leaking details communicates to the Saudis that this tape is real. How they choose to respond is fascinating--so far, from denial to equivocating.
Wit for the wild claim of forgery, fake news, conspiracies and other delusional explanations.
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Our president is a businessman. He does not care for journalists of other countries or dissidents. 80 a barrel or 200 a barrel, that is what he cares about. If I look the other way will you give it to me for 70? The U.S. still has a constitution. I hope our U.S. journalists and everyday people utilize that first amendment, while we still have it.
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We live in a time when we are asked to ignore what we see and hear and believe something that directly contradicts those senses...
Like everything 'controversial' these days, it's really quite transparent...
Trump conspired and obstructed... republicans still obstruct and are essentially organized crime at this point... Fox News is nothing more than State TV... Kavanaugh was a poor candidate... and the Saudis did this.
They aren't even trying to hide anything anymore. They do it in clear daylight, then just say the complaints against them are "they're just being partisan..."
You don't have to be a democrat to see that 1 + 1 = 2.
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