So the excuse is that MBS authorised the illegal kidnapping, assault, torture and rendition of a WAPO journalist, but not the killing, so everything's okay. One sinister implication of this is that Trump obviously expects that when he starts having people murdered, his base will accept the excuse that he, "Never said kill him!"
And the whole of the United States just sits and watches it happen, mesmerized and powerless to take any action out of deference to the office of the presidency - or more likely it's just simple cowardice. The United States is under the control of a criminal and a traitor and there doesn't seem to be a single American who thinks that anything can be done to change that.
No matter what happens at the midterm elections, Trump is still president for another two years. What else are you Americans going to sit and watch happen? Trump still has the power to plunge the country into a nuclear war overnight and that's my prediction, around March next year, not too long after his son's are indicted by Mueller's team.
Words fail me, and they fail the whole of the United States and the planet. There are situations which cannot be dealt with adequately by words. Someone needs to take action against Trump that will effectively end his presidency before he does something irreparable, like start a war, or have a journalist murdered.
Trump is severely mentally ill. If some sane person doesn't take action soon, it is going to be too late to avoid a real disaster.
15
So the excuse is that MBS authorised the illegal kidnapping, assault, torture and rendition of a WAPO journalist, but not the killing, so everything's okay. One sinister implication of this is that Trump obviously expects that when he starts having people murdered, his base will accept the excuse that he, "Never said kill him!"
And the whole of the United States just sits and watches it happen, mesmerized and powerless to take any action out of deference to the office of the presidency - or more likely it's just simple cowardice. The United States is under the control of a criminal and a traitor and there doesn't seem to be a single American who thinks that anything can be done to change that.
No matter what happens at the midterm elections, Trump is still president for another two years. What else are you Americans going to sit and watch happen? Trump still has the power to plunge the country into a nuclear war overnight and that's my prediction, around March next year, not too long after his son's are indicted by Mueller's team.
Words fail me, and they fail the whole of the United States and the planet. There are situations which cannot be dealt with adequately by words. Someone needs to take action against Trump that will effectively end his presidency before he does something irreparable, like start a war, or have a journalist murdered.
Trump is severely mentally ill. If some sane person doesn't take action soon, it is going to be too late to avoid a real disaster.
4
The Saudi prince denies, Trump defends the denial, then the prince changes his story, and Trump shifts with him. We have no way of knowing where they will land, but the pattern is becoming way too familiar.
The American people, and I think it's most of us in one way or another, have simply gotten accustomed to lies and we assume that anyone in or associated with this administration will like, then lie differently, etc.
The moral permission slip that made it possible for the Saudi princelings to lie and then blatantly change their story came from the President of the United States.
Donald Trump and his handlers have recreated our world. They have done it with remarkable speed and efficiency.
The mid-term elections offer just a small chance at some moderate turn-around, but only if we vote, Democrats. Only if we actually vote.
I have come to believe that a great deal that is of substantial importance is on the line. I don't know if we understand that.
We are living far, far beyond George Orwell's worst nightmare. A man has been murdered. Almost certainly the murderers will get away with it. Trump's approval rate remains stable.
7
Being cooked in a lab for our consumption:
1. It was not sanctioned by the Prince. The Prince is a kind new modern leader and has no interest in power or challenges to it,
2, The actors were rogues and not authorized,
3. Koshoggi was an ISIS supporter and was a threat to SA, the US and the world,
4. The rogue actors will be punished\
Behind the scenes some bitter truths:
1. Trump with Jared's constant support sided overwhelmingly, almost foolishly with the Saudis in the mideast. He and Jared should have known how the SA royals remain in power and control,
2. Trump will never risk 110 billion in arms sales, no matter who dies, whether it's a journalist or thousands of Yemenis, The new America is about the bottom line.
3. No real justice will come of this as congress is still cowtied to Trump.
6
Trump in The Art Of The Deal: (following after Roy Cohn) when faced with an accusation, Never admit. Never confess. Deny, Deny, Deny. Trump is never interested in the truth, so MBS can make up any cover story he wants, but the 15 Saudis arriving to interrogate Khashoggi tell us all we need to know: they had bad intentions and were determined to torture Khashoggi.
6
The idea that "rogue killers" would murder someone in the Saudi consulate, without approval straight from the Crown Prince, is pure fantasy. We have seen this CP act like a total psychopath over the last couple years and this is right up his alley. It is kind of like believing that Richard Armitage "accidentally" exposed Valerie Plame as an undercover CIA office. Functionaries like Armitage do not say anything without direct orders. And Saudi operatives do not do anything without Royal Family orders. Just the way it works.
8
Rogue killers do not hop on a plane in groups, drive to an official government building and residence and kill someone inside an embassy. It was sanctioned. This is no "Mission Impossible" movie.
7
America has a thug for a president
if the saudi's are protected by him, we become no better than the russians or the n koreans or any of the other tyrannies that trump slobbers over
his administration is corrupt
his instincts are without morals
the shudder and horror over Khashgoggi's murder is a fantasy of medieval minds, the inquisition as its exquisite best
we are forfeiting our won by blood for two centuries what we had become before trump
his name is a synonym for nadir
7
Killed in interrogation by mistake? So he was tortured to death...
10
Black Lives Matter. #MeToo.
Trump has inadventently opened another Pandora’s Box.
Americans need to have an open debate about their relationship with Saudi Arabia.
2
Trump's opinion is worthless when dealing with people that have as much money as the Saudis. If you paid him enough Trump would let you violently rape his daughter while he stood watching with his hands in his pockets.
9
Would there be this level of outrage if it couldn't be directed at Trump? Don't think so. Outrage towards Trump shouldn't drive our foreign policy.
You Americans need to invest more in alternative energy, and you need to do it soon. What you’re doing by getting your oil from Saudi-Arabia is financing a totalitarian, autocratic regime. Do you really want that, as the oldest democracy of the modern world? Furthermore, you are also financing terrorism this way. Don’t worry about your gun deals. Saudis are used to sit on their natural resources and do nothing but cash up, they don’t have the required scientific knowledge to produce any quality firearms, and thus, they will continue to buy yours.
4
The trump regime is using the same strategy that worked for them with the Kavanaugh hearings - muddy the water. The term "Rogue Killers" is about as muddy as it gets. Anyone could have done it by that logic. Now the Saudis will claim they identified and executed these "rogues" and the world will never know the truth. That's the perfect solution for trump & co. They desperately need to replace the flow of Russian rubles into the trump empire with Saudi riyals.
3
It is patently obvious that Pompeo has gone to Saudi Arabia to give a patina of credibility to the "rogue killer" story so the Saudis can put Khashoggi's murder to one side. And of course, Trump will say something inane like "It's a terrible thing but we will never really know". It is so frustrating. I am tempted to shut off all news media until November 6.
8
The Saudis gave Kushner a $500 million dollar loan recently he desperately needed. The Saudis have bought millions of dollars of Trump real estate. Trump will say whatever the Saudis want him to say. There is a reason for the emoluments act and Trump is in violation of that.
12
MBS is Saddam 2.0 - Anyone know the history of Saddam and his personality can see who MBS is mirroring what Saddam did to consolidate power. Like Saddam, Western powers all supported him until seeing his unbridled ego going full force. Let's this stop this madman before $100 Billion of US weapons will be used against America.
3
The president of the United States, whose duty is to uphold and defend the Constitution, has violated the First Amendment by siding with a murderous regime that brazenly kills and dismembers journalists.
Trump is doing this because the Saudi government is one of the Trump Organization's best customers. Besides being morally reprehensible, Trump is also in violation of the Constitution's Emolument clause.
Republicans who refuse to check this outrageous and dangerous president are also violating their Constitutional oaths. Vote them out on November 6th.
9
This ongoing tale of disappearance and most likely murder begins to feel like the script for a thriller. First the King of Saudi Arabia denies any knowledge of Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance in the Saudi consulate. Now there are "rumors" that Saudi Arabia will admit that this was an "interrogation gone wrong." Trump suggests "rogue killers." Al Jazeera reports this morning that forensic evidence of Mr. Khashoggi's demise has been found in the Saudi consulate. And where is the body? Even if this was an "interrogation gone wrong," there must be a body. And hopefully not one hacked into pieces, as the Turkish press have suggested. No matter what happened, Mr. Khashoggi's family deserve the opportunity to bury and to mourn him.
There is no way with the US top intelligence officials in the world at Trumps access, that he does NOT know exactly what happened before it hit the press. Pompeo is going to Saudi Arabia to get his story straight with them.
5
More wind power, more solar power, more nuclear power, use our gas resources for ourselves, and tell exxon mobile to forget about selling any oil from the house of saud in the US.
4
When it is convenient for Mr. Trump we hear his regular litany of responses. 1) I talked with him and he told me, very strongly, that he didn't do it. 2) It could have been him but it could have been someone else: a fat man on bed, political liar, rogue murderers, 3) We are getting to the bottom of this, believe me, no one wants to do this more than me.
So instead of interviewing Mr. Trump anymore, simply refer to the list above and find the choice that suits his purposes. That is what he will say.
4
Khashoggi was killed in interrogation by mistake ??? Please, does the Saudi Regime think we are all stupid? Of course, Trump will acritically accept this pathetic version of Khashoggi's death simply because he wants this event to be forgotten asap. Why? Because he puts the arms deal with Saudi Arabia above any Human Rights issue. In this respect, Donald Trump is a true isolationist.
6
Would it were that while Trump is talking to the Saudi's about one terribly sad murder that he think of hos Jewish daighter ,son in law and grandchildren to convince the jew hating Saudi's to recognize Israel? I am not Jewish but wonder why we even deal with this country when so many Jews have built this country and are forefront in many USA corporations that the Saudi's benefit from with investments ?
2
After this second cock-n-bull story begins to take emerge-that rather then Khashoggi was murdered "By a rogue hit team", that he was killed "accidentally" during an otherwise ordinary interrogation by the Saudis- the most obvious question for their interlocutors who currently reside in the US Congress is: Will this Republican led Congress allow the Trump Administration to continue to act as if nothing has happened, that its is simply business as usual? If so how can any American who does business involving international trade with either the Trump family or the Saudis feel safe?
4
Again and again, we see the real Trump; one of his wealthy buddies, a Trump-like (arrogant and ignorant) leader, seems to be responsible for the death of an internationally known journalist, and Mr. Trump, devoid of any true knowledge (as usual), makes up a "rogue killers" story that no one in the world believes. Do you think he would be any more responsive if the victim were an American citizen? Or does he only back up the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Russia, and North Korea? Whose side is he on?
7
Can happen. Happened in the US
Read
Crime
Murder, theft, and other wickedness.
April 5 2015 9:08 PM
The Third Man
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/04/death_of_i...
The un-redacting of the report also revealed the name of the FBI agent who shot Ibragim—and the Boston Globe then meticulously verified his identity. He was Aaron McFarlane, he was 41 years old, and he had been with the FBI since 2008. Before that, he had been a police officer in Oakland, California. While there, he was accused of falsifying a police report, and the Oakland Police Department was sued twice by former suspects who claimed he had physically assaulted them. The Oakland police settled each of the lawsuits for $32,500, and McFarlane left in 2004, with a lifetime annual pension of $52,000.
I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that if this country ever suffered another 911, it would easily be smoothed out if the perps made a handsome donation to Trump interests. There is no atrocity that can’t be counterbalanced by money. A man with no morality dragging America into the sewer.
12
Oh they accidentally killed him while he was being tortured, that's ok then, as long as they say nice things about trump.
6
Ah yes the old Henry II excuse regarding the death of Thomas Beckett: "I just said I'd wish someone would free me from this meddlesome priest. How was I to know anybody would take what a king says seriously?"
1
We didn't kill him! He accidentally ran into our drawn knives twenty times! Unfortunately, his body was carved into pieces because of his negligence!!!
9
Yeah, a team of 15 is flown in, has open access to the embassy behind closed doors .... and they're "rogue killers". Followed by a sanitizing scrub crew before investigators are allowed entry. Uh-huh.
5
where is the body?!!!
1
By all reports, dismembered and disposed.
1
If the Saudis are in the habit of letting anyone into their embassy, then yes, there may have been some "rogue killers" who were responsible.
Seriously, Mr. Trump?
If you don't step up and take a stand against this, you are making every employee of Boeing and every other company selling arms and equipment to the Prince complicit in a fascist assassination of a law abiding journalist. That is so nice how you can so easily put blood on others hands. It is always the same with you: Money over Morality. That is not greatness and won't generate greatness. It is just another stain by your hand.
Not my president. Not my country.
8
So first no one knows anything. Then it could have been rogue killers. Then Saudi Arabia denies it. Now they admit it but it was an accident.
5
If only to be a fly on the wall at the GOP House caucus meeting when this story broke.
2
My 10 year old nephew lies better than this. Republicans can’t even defend it, they just say Trump is doing the right thing out of concern for oil prices and the global economy. Apparently they are globalists now.
6
Prior to Khashoggi's "disappearance", Saudi Oil could always be counted on for providing cover for whatever happened inside the Thingdom and for much of what did outside of it. Finally, they overstepped. In truth, many of us hoped there would have been a reckoning after 9/11. The Republican president of that time (like the equally incompetent one of this time) preferred to see the Thingdom for what they want it to be instead of what it is. This despicable act of murder, however, combined with the inevitable reach of climate change and the doomed fossil fuel industry, may finally begin the marginalization of a ruthless regime that should have never come out of the desert.
3
If the interrogation went badly, and was not intended to kill the journalist, why bring a bone saw? This was a planned assassination that US discovered and Turkish intelligence has confirmed- as important as the killing is Trump’s response: instead of outrage, protect the arms deal. Did Trump and/or financial backers stand to benefit?
4
I’m worried about what Trump will come up with to distract us from this story.
7
Interesting that the team of 15 'rogue' killers remembered to bring their saw. To put this into perspective: Based on the Saudi's long-established practice, the 'rogues' undoubtedly knew that a beheading would be in order.
This political/cultural difference explains Trump's own qualms. Had the king ordered a simple poisoning all would be well, just as with our president's Best Friend Forever, Vladimir Putin.
3
"It is highly unlikely an attempted rendition of Mr. Khashoggi could have been carried out without the knowledge of Saudi rulers."
Attempted "rendition"? I don't see how that fits the context of this article.
Maybe attempted "debriefing by hostile interrogation"?
It is astounding to me that there is such a great furor about this one man, when virtually nothing is said in the United States about the indiscriminate killing of thousands of Yemeni civilians in Saudi bombing attacks. No threats to pull out of Saudi sponsored business meetings. No prominent calls to cut off aid over the Saudi wanton air war. Indeed we about to send the Saudi's 100 billion dollars in military aid so they can continue their attacks. I guess assisting the Saudis in the killing of Yemen civilians is what makes America great again. (Although it should be noted that similar aid was provided in previous administrations.)
3
Khashoggi died on Saudi Arabian property - very defined, controlled, and monitored property. Let's see their monitor files. If they can't prove they didn't do it, they did do it. If someone walks into your house and never walks out again (and there's a video record), you're implicated.
"Rogue killers", "botched operation" (i.e., a mistake), denials from the top -- all ludicrous. It's only because the Saudis are doing billion dollar deals with Trump, family, friends, and donors that the US hasn't already ostracized Saudi Arabia.
Meetings, statements, denials don't cut it. We're sick and tired of the darkest levels of corruption at the highest levels of power. We're sick and tired of Republicans cozying up to murderous dictators while turning their backs on our allies. We're sick and tired of Republicans and Fox day in and day out turning Democrats into the enemy while praising our country's true enemies. It has to stop now.
8
Maybe the FBI can look into this, just to give them something to do since they apparently don't bother with investigations at home in US.
4
How can we forget the Saudi’s basically shrugged off slamming two jets into the NYC trade center which was masterminded by Osama Bin Laden a Saudi prince. They refused responsibility for the Saudi hijakers and Bin Laden. We dont need their oil and we should not sell them arms to bomb innocents in Yemen or anywhere.
12
Trump continues to give the green light for treacherous and undemocratic behavior to thugs and dictators around the world.
Notwithstanding the "rogue interrogation" story put forth by the Saudis and Trump, its transparent that the Kashoggi's death was an execution. Over a 30 year career, I have travelled in the mid-east and visited many consulates, and two things are truisms: a) no one enters a consulate without being impeccably credentialed by their sponsor government, and b) all comings and goings are meticulously detailed on videotape. A visitor does not arrive to pick up marriage papers and leave inside multiple suitcases without a high level of complicity by all involved.
So now we have the cover story, which will be bought into by all involved. Trump specifically will buy in, for the following reasons:
A) it will enable his private ventures to continue to feed at the Saudi trough.
B) it will enable him to continue to peddle the story that long-delayed Saudi military orders will provide jobs to his base.
C) it will delight Sheldon Adelson, the Evangelicals and other Trumpist sponsors of Benjamin Netenyahu's hard line versus the Palestinians.
Obviously, what's lost is our moral standing in the world, and our ability to influence the global community to move towards democratic goals. As in America, it will be "me first" around the world.
I fear for the world our kids will live in...
8
Trump – as always – gives the impression of being gullible. He said King Salman denied any knowledge of what had happened to Khashoggi and was ready to believe it. The sad thing is that the Saudi king was already ill upon his ascension to the throne in 2015. He lets his son, Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman run the country, who got rid of the then crown prince, Muhammad bin Nayef last year. But Trump believes Putin, who has been denying any meddling in the 2016 election.
If this theory of “rogue killers” takes off, the first team of nine agents who arrived in Instanbul at 3:13 am and lay in waiting for Khashoggi inside the consulate on October 2 are not in an enviable situation. Now they serve as convenient scapegoats in this diplomatic spat between Riyadh and the West.
8
An interrogation "gone wrong?" Let us accept this narrative for a moment, believing that the Saudi intention was simply to kidnap Jamal Khashoggi and render him home, alive, to Saudi Arabia.
I'm sure it is just me, but I'm having trouble understanding how a surgical bone saw legitimately fits into such a scenario.
Were the Saudi agents also intending to transport home to Riyadh some cuts of beef for their home freezers? Whatever the explanation, it seems clear that President Trump will buy whatever narrative the Saudis concoct.
After all, Trumo has millions of dollars wrapped up in deals with the Saud royal family. As for those sides of beef, the president needs to sustain the meat supply for his tasty line of Trump steaks. That explains the bone saw.
Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren allegedly checked a box claiming Native American heritage on some application for this or that. Imagine the horror!
9
Try to see Donald’s point. The Saudis are murderers. That’s why he’s not going to stop selling them the weapons.
4
The fact that Trump used the term "Rogue Killers" before that precise term was leaked by the Saudis is proof that Trump was told exactly what happened,but still waiting for instructions from his handlers about how to play this one out. How sad! Whether by accident or intent, use of such extreme interrogation methods where someone dies as a result is obviously torture. Trump is now COLLUDING with the Saudi regime to cover up torture. Trump would likely use such extreme interrogation methods on American citizens if he felt the need to do so. Or, has the Trump regime already used torture on Americans in hidden places?
1
Turkey says that they have audio and video of his death. Why not just release them for the whole world to see what criminals the Saudis are?
5
Under international law, the physical property of a foreign nation’s diplomatic legation to the host country is not an extraterritorial extension of the foreign nation. Thus, contrary to popular misconception, the Saudi Kingdom’s consulate was not an extension of Saudi “soil,” that serves as a fortress of Saudi sovereignty in Turkey. The Saudis cannot commit crimes, such as murder, within their embassy, anymore than US diplomats could murder US critics in the American Embassy London. International law does afford Saudi citizens who are accredited to their diplomatic missions certain protections, but a license to murder simply because any Saudis,!including purported diplomats, commit murder inside the confines a consulate is not one them.
4
“Been hearing the ridiculous ‘rogue killers’ theory was where the Saudis would go with this,” Senator Christopher S. Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, wrote in a Twitter post. “Absolutely extraordinary they were able to enlist the President of the United States as their PR agent to float it.”
This sounds really familiar. Where have I heard this defense before? Something terrible happened but the perpetrator, who also happens to be a person on whom the GOP has pinned its future, strongly denies the allegation. I'm guessing there will be a slapdash investigation followed by a chorus of Trump flunkies claiming there were no corroborating witnesses.
10
Sure it just has to be 15 rogue killers who arrived on two corporate jets rented from a company frequently used by the Saudi government, entered the Saudi Consulate without being detected on security cameras, brought with them a bone saw, and left separately the same evening on those private jets.
12
If it accidentally happened then why bring along a bone saw? Maybe that's their usual precaution in case an interrogation goes bad (note the sarcasm).
7
"mistakenly killed during an interrogation". I think this means "tortured to death", presumably by "rogue killers" employed by the Saudi government, and dispatched to Istanbul with a bone-saw (just in case). It doesn't get any better, does it?
3
The Saudis are used to getting away with murder.
They got away with supporting the 9/11 terrorists.
They got away with supporting Wahabi advocates of terrorism.
They continue getting away with blockading food , water, and medical supplies from Yemen.and they get American support for terror bombing missions against hospitals and schools. They get away with a blockade against Qatar, a US ally and major base.
One more murder and torture victim is nothing to them. And judging by history, is not significant for the US...as long as they buy our weapons and keep oil flowing. It's time to get real about the benefits economic ties with Iraq can provide.
6
So I wonder if any of all those terrorist suspects we secretly whisked off to black sites for rendition, torture and enhanced interrogation ever got bungled? We're the perfect ones to be looking into this to get to the bottom of it.
1
The Saudi regime is a sovereign version of the Mafia: ruthless and unaccountable, patriarchal and truly evil, safe and arrogant in the knowledge that money greases all wheels.
That they would have the gall to change a narrative of "we had nothing to do with it " to "rogues infiltrated our consulate and did the deed without authorization" to "oops we botched an interrogation" just shows what they think of the international community: chumps they can dupe and failing that, that they can buy off...
10
Of course he was murdered. KSA will now admit to a lesser charge of a interrogation gone wrong by rogue killers and probably pay a few secret millions to the Khashoggi family and Trump will flaunt a victory after he publicly announced he’s going to get to the bottom of it. In a week nobody will remember what happened.
3
Is the humanitarian crisis in Yemen caused by the Saudis' incessant bombing of civilians, a mistake? Was 9/11 financed and executed by Saudis, a mistake? Is the beheading of just under 100 people a year, a mistake? Or the flogging of prisoners until they die, a mistake also.
But the US supports Saudi Arabia, no matter what they do.
Because they have Oil.
13
And it would be wonderful to have an anti-oil/clean energy agenda in the US wouldn't it?
4
Is there any substance to the rumor, read on the internet, that Jared Kushner, up to his eyewinks in money dealings with corrupt Arabs, ordered or at least knew of the planned killing of Khashoggi, which was initially condoned by the White House, which so outraged Nikki Haley that she resigned as Ambassador to the U.N.?
3
The timing of Haley's resignation made me think of that immediately.
3
@robert3butler Who knows? Many people are saying that Jared was involved.
2
I agree with everyone who is critical of the KSA story and how Trump is just a “useful idiot” , Lenin’s phrase. But tiding the Nikki Haley resignation to this story just strains credulity.
According to the Saudis it appears the Khashoggi committed suicide in an effort to embarrass the king or something close to that. They're still working on the wording, but it's hard to insert 'great', 'tremendous' or 'wonderful' into the official statement.
6
@sbmd
Yes, suicide by autopsy.
6
Was it not just about 12 years ago against world wide disapproval
and efforts to save her that the Saudi's decapitated a maid for stealing ? The very next week George W Bush was over there happily dancing the famous sword dance, my thinking is that they gave GWB the very sword that terminated this poor maid as an inside joke.
Now of course we are allowing the Saudi's a way out of this to clean it up and save face sort of what appears a rogue murderer
that went overboard sort of like an accident.
Trump & Kushner must be smiling!
4
"Mr. Trump spoke with King Salman of Saudi Arabia on Monday morning in a 20-minute phone call. The president said the king denied any knowledge of what had happened to Mr. Khashoggi." The King of Saudi Arabia was observed by many to be in the early stages of dementia over four years ago. He's probably in the mid-advanced stage by now. A 20 minute conversation - well, probably more like 2 minutes, given Trumps habit of exaggeration - between the demented and a dunderhead. Lovely! Senator Murphy's tweet was spot-on.
7
Forget "A sucker is born every minute"
Trump believes the entire USA--even the world--is all suckers.
Except him. He is the one and only non-sucker--The Suckee. Too many porn stars shapes his view of humanity--let alone women.
5
If there's anyone on the planet ready, willing, and able to buy... make that, embrace and defend! an "explanation" that goes something like, "Khashoggi set us up! How were we supposed to know he'd DIE when we hit him in the head with that pipe?" it's Donald J. Trump. See? Just a silly misunderstanding being blown out of proportion by the Democrats.
4
So how to explain away the agent entering the country with a bone saw? Sounds awfully premeditated. I suspect Pompeo is meeting with the Saudis for a coaching session to put together a story that Trump can then regurgitate to the American public to preserve America's business interests. We need to realize that Saudi Arabia is not a friend of the United States. The events of 9-11 proved that.
12
There are two "roads" to take here: The first is the one in which the ridiculous explanation of "rogue elements" responsible for the death of Mr. Khashoggi is accepted by our government (read Trump et al) so that we can continue to do business (in every sense of the word) with the Saudiis, regardless of the lawlessness of the act and its implications for a civilized world. The second is the one in which the United States asserts its moral and ethical values and initiates suitable measures of punishment. Sadly, neither one will do justice for this most heinous act nor will it bring back the measured voice for justice evinced by Mr. Khashoggi. Even more sadly, I think we know which road will be taken by the Trump administration.
5
The current explanation is that "a person familiar with the Saudi government’s plans said that Mr. Khashoggi was mistakenly killed during an interrogation." That should be given as much credence as the prior statements of the Saudi government. If the goal was not to kill, why was a forensic expert one of those identified at the scene? My guess: he was there to dsmemebr the body.
4
All of us who have listened to Trump know that he has a problem with facts. In harsher but more accurate words he is a liar. His close association with the Saudis is motivation to float the story about "rogue killers." C'mon rogue killers got into the Saudi embassy and killed Khashoggi. Even the story that the interrogation got out of control and he died is absurd. The man was murdered with full knowledge of the staff of the embassy. Whether the Crown Prince had knowledge of that or not makes no difference. But money talks so not much will happen to he Saudis. It will be business as usual.
7
"OK, the interrogation went wrong" Saudis are saying now. But just in case, they brought a bone saw.
"So what?" are they now saying... "What are you gonna do? Go cash the checks and keep mum, we got the oil spigot"...
And sure enough big checks will be cashed.
This is beyond sick!
6
Accidentally killed during interrogation? In that case the autopsy expert (AKA the Butcher of Baghdad) would have arrived in the evening or next day. Did I miss something? Is this not obvious?
3
For Donald, it is all about the money. He could care less about this journalist. He doesn't care about human rights either. Just money. And himself.
15
@PatsyHe defends those to whom he is beholden--Putin; the Saudis; white supremacists (some of them are nice people, right?).
5
Bin Salman killed Khashoggi 100%, and Trump is working hard to justify the murder. just think:
1- Why Bin Salman sent a 15-men assassination squad in the same day Khashoggi went to the embassy?
2- Why the assassination squad brought a Bone Saw with them??????
3- Why the were Anatomist and Medical Examiner among the assassination squad?
4- How the entrance Camera recorded Khashoggi but the Exist Camera couldn't?
5- Why it took 2 WEEKS for Saudis to admit the killing after the initial vehement denial?
6- Why Saudi refused the Consulate buildings to research if they were innocent?
Turkey intelligence intercepted a horrific video of the killing after being uploaded Bin Salman by the assassination squad.
That video clearly shows torture and order of murder by bin Salman.
Trump and CIA want to save bin salman by claiming the whole crime was a botched inccident !!!!!!
7
If a Bush, Clinton, or Obama were in the White House right now, the Mainstream Media would have given this reporter's murder a drive-by mention at best. Pre-Trump, so much was tolerated, forgiven, ignored, or under-reported.
Apparently Trump Derangement Syndrome does come with some benefits.
Shades of 2002..... Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl tortured, dismembered and murdered by Saudi sponsored Al Qaeda in Pakistan
3
They will "admit" that it was an interrogation gone wrong?
Come on.
5
'Moderate'? The Saudi despots wouldn't know it if it was staring them in the face. A country that beheads people is still living in the Middle Ages needs to be avoided at all costs. They should be told to take their oil and shove it.
6
How do you accidentally kill someone? This wasn’t a car wreck
10
@JD
Do you know how tricky it is to dismember someone and not accidently kill them? It's really hard.
5
@Blue in Green not in trumps addeled mind. As long as he and Jared get their cks everything is normal and up is down black is white and it could be a Martian that just didn’t like the reporter
1
The biggest problem with Trump is that anyone that listens to him gets a little bit more stupid. A little bit each time. Not only his supporters, everyone. Our brains want to protect us regardless if we want it or not.
10
"Rogue killers" doing their business in the Saudi consulate? Who is stupid enough to believe that besides Trump?
6
We cannot support this kind of thuggery. This is cold-blooded MURDER. THe Saudi Prince must be held to task for this unspeakable act. Call off your arms deal @realdonaldtrump and show the world that America is still a democracy and operates from the values of decency and human rights.
4
We asked him a simple question and he accidentally died. Our bad. We won't do it again where there are cameras and cell coverage.
3
So the Saudi's newest "alternative explanation" is that it was an interrogation gone wrong?
The most brutal torture is now called interrogation in the lexicon of the Saudi Kingdom.
5
The Saudi energy minister... asked that “the global community of nations will respect and acknowledge what Saudi Arabia has done.”
Yes, the world is apparently acknowledging what Saudi Arabia has done, without the respectful part.
8
It’s funny how someone can die being interrogated, when a bone saw is used. They were probably using the good guy, bad guy with a bone saw interrogation technique. Yes, the interrogation must have been going smoothly when someone pulled out the bone saw. My guess is that any information was immediately forthcoming when the bone saw was produced. Then, when Mr. Kashoggi passed away, they must have figured, we have a bone saw, I guess we should just cut some bones? The Saudi’s were prepared for every eventuality, tablecloth hats, (check), toga attire, (check), bone saw, did someone remember to bring the bone saw?
7
Never thought I’d see the day that a sitting U.S. President would lie to protect a foreign government that illegally murdered a dissident journalist. It used to be that this country had values that we stood up for and protected around the world, as other civilized nations do. Trump and his “rogue killers” story is a betrayal of our nation’s ideals, an insult to our intelligence, and a window into a man with no principles.
13
I feel horrible for Mr. Khashoggi and his family and friends for what has apparently happened to him, but why do I feel like there is more outrage being directed toward the Saudi kingdom over this one death than over any number of other misdeeds they've committed or at least funded over the years, up to and including 9/11?
3
Perhaps the Saudi game plan all along was to float a story of murder and the truth is that he really was abducted and now sits in a Saudi prison cell. Here's the logic of this - if it was known that he was abducted, the international pressure would force them to release him; but, if the murder narrative sticks, the Saudis will take the hits against them for a couple of weeks until the international spotlight moves on to something else, leaving Khashoggi in a Saudi prison, alone and forgotten, and subject to the brutal whims of MbS.
How does one get a bone saw through the Turkish equivalent of airport TSA
7
....too busy looking for nail clippers?
2
Nothing! is going to stop trump from going to that investment forum. He smells money and that is all that is important to him. Even he knows he isn't going to be president forever. He's more concerned about his personal dynasty than he is his presidential legacy.
5
Of course, it's a mistake. People bring bone saws to interrogations all the time. They need it to cut the crusts off the sandwiches for lunchtime interrogations. Can't imagine why people would make other assumptions.
9
I predicted that this likely would be the eventual outcome. Does anyone really believe that rogue killers took it upon themselves to murder Khashoggi in such a hierarchical (and bureaucratic) society? Probably not, but it provides MBS with the beginnings of a fig leaf.
You can always behead a few grundoons, arguing to their survivors that some needed to lose their heads for the team. Money can paper over a lot of grief.
3
Trump: "I can shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and wouldn't lose any voters".
Newest version: "An American resident can be brutally murdered in a Saudi Consulate but I won't lose any money the Saudis put into mine and Jared-Dearest pockets".
20
If you successfully disappear a newspaper reporter in Turkey, does it count as much as shooting someone down on Fifth Avenue while not losing any voters?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
24
@A. Stanton
I can help you with that. The first thing actually happened, the second did not and could not. Most people know the difference, or should. Pretending otherwise to score political points cheapens the murder of an actual human being.
2
Ed L: seems to me that's exactly what Trump has done . . . cheapened the death of a human being by brown-nosing the Saudis so as to score political points (not to mention personal financial points) with yet another heinous leader. Most people can recognize that.
In addition he has cheapened this country's reputation by showing how totally corrupt we have become under the leadership of him and his henchmen. So metaphorically he stands on a corner of the world and OK's carnage and most likely still retains most of his base—but not everyone can recognize the subtlety of metaphor.
1
An interrogation "gone wrong?" How could an interrogation performed with a bone saw have turned out any better?
24
George Washington: "I cannot tell a lie." Benedict Donald: "I can. Which one do you want?" In today's print edition, this headline of this story is notes that the Saudis "plan to say...." Plan?!? I guess that first they have to consult an expert to get their story straight, and who is a more expert liar than Benedict Donald?
15
First it was their "9/11" connection denials.
Now this.
So shameful.....for the U.S.
19
What was he being interrogated for? Marriage papers? Everything about this rotten, savage act of repression, torture and execution stinks.
“Saudi Arabia: our neighbors in peace.”
19
I guess since we have a president who lies daily by the minute the rest of the questionable world just hops on the bandwagon. You have to wonder about his kids and the many republicans running the country.
10
Pompeo should not be "seeking answers" from the Saudis, he should be viewing and hearing videos and audio tapes of the murder provided by Turkish intelligence. Then Trump should break diplomatic relations with the kingdom and announce to the world that that our country does not do business with murderers.
17
@Christy
And the $$$$$ man, Steve Mnuchin, should not go to the Saudi "Davos in the Desert" meeting, a meeting that has not as he falsely claims 'terrorism funding' on its agenda.
3
@Christy but that would greatly interfere with painting Iran as the worst, most horrible regime in the world. They're not buying $110 billion in arms from the U.S. to wage war in the Middle East, with Jared reaping tens of millions in commission from the Saudis! Obama's Iran nuclear deal, which was adhered to by Iran? Horrible! Throw it out the window! Bomb Iran! Saudi Arabia, which lashes, jails and kills critics, female and male, which is a global sponsor and generator of terrorism , which killed thousands of civilians including children in Yemen, and is home to the most hardline school of Islam, they're great!
6
Of course it does. What else are the weapons used for?
So, as I understand this, 15 audi agents with bone saws went to Turkey to interview Khashoggi. During this interview (torture?) he accidently died. No Saudi government officials or royals knew anything about this. Trump somehow pulls out of his (red) hat a theory that a rogue (15 rogue?) killer(s) did it. Wow! Those rallys Trump gives must serve a lot of kool-aid!
12
If you successfully disappear someone in Turkey, does it count as much as shooting someone down on Fifth Avenue while not losing any voters?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
5
Sure they were rogue killers, strange people who were allowed entry into the embassy. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell real cheap.
12
Why would an autopsy specialist with a bone saw be needed for an interrogation? Clear evidence. Of intent to commit brutal murder. Interrogation gone wrong? When pigs fly!
11
"Shifting story"? How about "In modification of their lie about their involvement . . ."
11
There is absolutely no use waiting for U.S to come up with sanctions. Trump himself said that it could be "rouge killers". What a joke!
What is important here is what the journalists, other countries, and regular citizens can do. All journalists in US should boycott SA and news about Saudi arabia, tourists should stop visiting SA, companies should withdrew their collaborations with Saudis. There should be a complete boycott of Saudi Arabia This will send a strong message not just to Saudi arabia, but any country/dictator who thinks they can get away with such a brutal act. NY Times and Washington post should lead this revolt. They killed one in your family for heaven sake. Stand up and do more than just writing articles!
6
Anyone else wondering about the timing of Nikki Haley's resignation?
11
The "rogue killers" story is obviously concocted, since it took two weeks to come up with even though the Saudis knew the evidence was there. The question is, does Trump believe this transparent lie or not? This would ordinarily be an either-or question, but with Trump there is always the third possibility, which is that he doesn't care whether it is true or not, so long as he can use it to promote his agenda.
After trying it out on 60 Minutes, we can see which way that is going to go. He doesn't want to give up his (grossly inflated) $110 billion win, next to which the possibility of enabling a for-real rogue element in Saudi Arabia, namely the crown prince, dwindles away to nothing.
So the only real open question is this: how much damage is yet to be done to our national interests and standing in the world in the process of servicing Trump's self-interest?
6
"The new explanation, whatever its truth..." There, in a nutshell, is the Saudi philosophy. Works for Donald.
5
Let's play "pretend"my very young granddaughter used to ask me.
I guess playing "pretend"doesn't stop for some people.
4
OK, so the "Commander in Chief" says, "Who knows?" It is a certainty that the intelligence community in ours and other governments DO know, as they are good at their job.
So Trump is joining the PR Flak squad, blatantly tries to find the proper lie which will float, to find the proper spin so his investments don't suffer. VOTE them/him out!!!!
14
What I would like to know if Trump's theory has a scintilla of merit is, a) how did rogue killers get into the Saudi Embassy, and b) if they did in fact get in illegally, why in the*€&€ aren't we taking about that? Oh right, because we only pay attention when an American (or foreigner with suficiente friends in America) dies.
This is a classic Trump distraction technique.
6
@Don
Don, but of course these 15 Saudis including an autopsy specialist with a chain saw were rogue killers and the crown price and the Saudi Consul knew nothing about it.
After all, the Turkish citizens working for the consulate were given leave for the whole day when Khashoggi was to receive his papers that he was legally divorced.
It was not the consul who gave them leave. It was his butler.
1
Sorry, but Trump's "Rogue Killer" explanation, a spin that allows the Saudi's, Trump and Turkey all an explanation allowing them to slither out of this debacle, but still makes the benevolent Saudi king and prince responsible as they certainly sanctioned this "botched interrogation" so what will the POTUS do here? Didn't he promise serious repercussions and a severe response for this heinous act... another specious threat as he'll do nothing but perhaps the Congress will communicate to the international community we do not tolerate barbarian acts, especially by a country that would hold the threat of oil over our head just like they did back in the early 70's. Seems like they've already hinted at this. So it will be interesting to see what POTUS does, after all he says he doesn't make deals with terrorists... but there are exceptions and when money is involved all bets for integrity and principles are off Trump's table.
3
The word that best describes Donald Trump, the President of the United States, is craven.
13
Apparently, in conservative circles the rumor mill has it that Khashoggi wasn't a journalist at all, but a spy who had been an accomplice of bin Laden. He is said to have been involved in arms brokering (his uncle is the arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi). In other words, conservatives are making a case that Jamal Khashoggi is somehow to blame for his death, or at least deserving for it. We know that Trump listens to these voices and accepts these unverified rumors. It's possible that these rumors are affecting how he deals with this. He may think Khashoggi was in fact deserving of his death, and therefore Trump will do little in its aftermath.
5
If the USS Liberty attack could be swept under the rug, so will the Khashoggi assassination be.
3
Is there an onsite incinerator at the Saudi Embassy in Instanbul?
4
Right.
Rogue killers walked into an embassy, before anyone could stop them.
They jumped on Kashoggi and killed him, before anyone could stop them.
Then they sawed up his entire body, before anyone could stop them.
And left with the pieces, before anyone could stop them.
15
The Clinton family should set an example and return all of the money the Saudis gave to the Clinton Foundation and Clinton Presidential Library. Money from murderers is never acceptable.
5
If Mr. Khashoggi was killed in interrogation by mistake a small voice asks "Where is the body?"
They speak of an interrogation gone wrong as if interrogation was an expected and normal set of events as if "Yes, he came in for an interrogation and we accidentally killed him."
Mr. Khashoggi went to the consulate to get documents "certification from the Saudi authorities of his divorce so that he could remarry in Turkey" the next day while his fiancée waited outside for him. That doesn't sound like the prelude to an interrogation.
If it was a legitimate interrogation wouldn't the consulate be expected to call the local authorities if someone died there? Do consulates normally have body disposal facilities so they don't have to call the local authorities? I looked at pictures of the Saudi consulate and it doesn't look very large to have those facilities.
6
So let me get this straight . . . a team of Saudi interrogators arrive in Istanbul to "question" Mr. Khashoggi, and one of them just happens to bring along a bone saw. Mr. Khashoggi dies during the "interrogation," which takes place in a Saudi consulate building. Or did he commit suicide and then saw himself up? If so, what bad manners he had!
Sure looks as if what we here is a scary precedent: diplomatic buildings in whatever country now can be places where anything goes -- and that includes murder -- as long as the perpetrator is protected by a powerful friend, an enabler. In this case, that enabler is the U.S. of A, which is more intent on selling $300 billion in arms to the Saudis (while also protecting the investments of the President and his son-in-law) than in international law or in doing the "right" and just thing. What would it take for Donald Rump to really get tough with the Saudis? Ten people killed? 20? 100? 3,000+ -- as in the 9/11 attack? We already know the answer top that question. It's a number much greater than 3,000.
6
Whatever "evidence" the Turks had to claim they "heard" the torturing and killing taking place, must have been pretty convincing, especially the details about the Saudi crew bringing along "bone cutters" and the forensic expert, and the breakdown of the timing of the murder and the movement of the "hit squad"--these specific details and timeline make me believe their claims (probably based on hidden surveillance) that the journalist was murdered and dismembered by the crew of 15--it sounds too specific and credible to me, like a carefully executed plan by someone didn't feel answerable to any outside authority, who felt he would not be answerable to anyone...And Trump's worries about not losing the arms sale his son-in-law helped cook up, shows how money trumps his priorities...
9
This is such a weak explanation it amounts to nothing more than the last two letters in MBS. And if Trump accepts it at face value he will show the world that American values have yet again been bought off with Saudi money.
17
As a Saudi, I will say please help out out. It this passed without any consequences we, the saudis, will be doomed.
115
@Khaled
Take care not to let your browser history be reviewed; and, certainly, don't go near ANY consulates.
4
With all due respect, you are already doomed.
And if Trump gets away with this, so are we.
4
@KHAled
I'm sorry--speaking on behalf of the mistaken citizens of my own country who voted for the man who has, in no uncertain terms, broadcast to the world that America approves of fascist lies and murderous autocrats. Good people of all nations and races will be imprisoned, tortured, and murdered because of this deplorable man and his woebegone cult.
Khaled wrote:
"As a Saudi, I will say please help out out. It this passed without any consequences we, the saudis, will be doomed."
1
It is evident that Mr. Khashoggi was kidnapped, tortured, murdered and dismembered on the explicit orders of Mr. Mohammed bin Salman.
It is evident that Donald Trump is envious of Mr. bin Salman and wishes he could do the same thing to American reporters.
Dan Kravitz
9
MBS: "We conducted a routine interrogation-by-dismemberment, and the poor man died! The interrogator will be held responsible for this unanticipated outcome!"
4
Are we to believe that the Saudi's didn't record this "interrogation?"
4
"No puppet--you're the puppet"
Remember that? There are no words to describe the shameful outrage of our "bobble-head president" stepping out in front of the cameras to be complicit in covering up a horrendous act.
Why is this criminal, who has committed treason, who cheats on his taxes, colludes with a foreign power to commit election fraud not arrested and sitting a jail cell awaiting trial?
13
Yes. Why not, Senators McConnell, Hatch, Cruz, Nunes et al??
7
Sure. Every interrogation team has a bone saw with them.
11
@Precarious I must admit that if I were being interrogated and someone pulled out a bone saw, I'd sing like a bird!
You cannot accidentally kill someone during an interrogation...unless you are also torturing him. This is still just a murder of a critic of MBS.
9
Alls I can say is that it may have been rogue killers, and King Salman had no knowledge of it, and the Crown Prince had no knowledge of it, and Don Junior had no knowledge of it. Khashoggi thought he was going to a meeting about adopting Russian babies.
14
“It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers — who knows,” Mr. Trump said...
I wonder of Mr. Trump would have been so sanguine if the out of control Saudi's, or the out of control Russians had attacked Jared, or Don Jr.
How would Trump react if they were poisoned or disarticulated like chickens?
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
Vladimir Putin.
Kim Jong-un.
Donald Trumps "strong men", his "besties forever".
The traitorous republican president who consorts with, and enthusiastically defends, state sponsored murderers.
14
I wonder how much wallet-twisting, sorry, arm-twisting, the Saudis had to do to get Trump to go along with this phony-baloney story.
8
My guess is none. Trump has no morals, no ethics, no smarts, no filter.
3
Vladimir Putin loaned the Saudi's out his personal PR Man, Donald Trump to come up with an alibi they can use, since he was so successful with his Fake news campaign.
Now, Putin's, PR Man Trump has come up with a new alibi for the Saudi's, "rogue killers", Donald Trump is a regular public relations genius
7
Saudis murder an enemy, and can't even keep their story straight about what supposedly happened. Unfortunately, that's not unusual for Saudi Arabia.
Trump jumps in with the 'rogue killer' theory, 'cause he doesn't want to let his Saudi friends down (and 'cause he just can't manage to keep his mouth shut about anything). Maybe there's even a Trump Tower in the works; stay tuned.
And the arms deal; we have to keep the arms deal 'cause we're makin' money off of it. And if you're making money, that's all that really matters, right Donnie?
The Saudi ambassador left Washington, permanently. 3 of Saudi's highly paid contractors dumped their relationships with the country. Everybody's getting this except you Mr. Pres.
This so-called president has taken us lower than the proverbial snake's belly.
Republicans, you might save your butts in the upcoming elections by starting the impeachment process, but you have to do it NOW.
6
Interrogation gone wrong? Really? They must think the rest of the world is populated with idiots. Why, if it was an interrogation gone wrong, did they send a forensics expert toting a bone saw on those private jets?
10
What a bunch of suckers we must be to buy any of this. First, it's a kidnapping and brutal murder. Then the murder was carried out maybe by a random band of rogue criminals with saws and other heavy duty equipment. What? These rogue guys happened to be marauding the hood looking to entertain themselves? Then, it's maybe an accident occurring in the presence of a Saudi investigatory team. What? The saw slipped? Election Day is November 6. Look for us to get exactly what we have coming to us: another whipping by our boy, Abracadabra.
6
Whatever story the Saudis cook up, Trump will endorse it.
11
Killed by mistake? Yeah, that makes sense. Ooops, I didn't know the gun was loaded. Sorry, my knife slipped on your artery. Or, wait, how many volts did you give him?
7
True and simple, Trump is a hibitual lier.
And he gets away with it doesn't he?
The Democratic Congressmen, the Press, TV Radio should all call the man what he is. A LIAR!
And he will lie when he takes America into a war.
He is dangerous and must be replaced!
5
Saudis sent an autopsy expert with a bonesaw to conduct an "interrogation" and now they may claim things went wrong? What a bunch of nonsense.
6
The republicans and this president have permanently stained the office and the country. Americans need to stop the rot of the republicans who will do or say anything to keep power. What a shameful period in our history.
12
“He was accidentally dismembered by the guy with a bone saw I had invited” seems like the kind of thing Trump will believe.
4
Not to play amateur CNI expert but politically with US help, the Saudis are going avoid any tribunal or independent impartial investigation. So demand an autopsy now!!!
A forensic autopsy will be able to determine whether Khashoggi was tortured, killed accidentally or brutally murdered. That is the eye of needle so get on with now.
1
Saudi Arabia is a police state with an archaic form of the death penalty carried out in public for all to witness. One one goes rogue in Saudi Arabia. Especially when a team of 15 Saudis traveled on two private airplanes to Turkey with diplomatic passports arriving the same day when Khashoggi entered the Saudi consulate then left later that day. The Saudis even said that Qatar killed him. And even tried to implicate his fiancee as a spy working for a foreign entity who wants to disgrace the Saudi kingdom. They said he left the consulate after two hours of arriving. And that the accusation is false and defamatory. Lies and more lies. One had to lack common sense to accept this new version. Unfortunately the liar-in-chief in the White House appears gullible to believe it.
5
Is an interrogation gone bad really a good alibi? What does that mean anyway? It sounds like an alibi that only Trump could dream up...this was a murder of a journalist regardless of the circumstances . Trump’s attacks on the press are to blame....though too stupid to foresee the
deadly consequences of his anti-press rhetoric , the Saudi’s rightfully assumed that Trump’s reaction would be weak. But did they think he would conspire in the cover-up? Maybe they did...obstruction of justice is his specialty.
7
I think Trump has found his true calling - he is a TanFastic Ace #1 Amazing "Lie Consultant" for rogue people, countries, businesses and ideas. They simply use his tactics of ignoring stories, deny deny, then in the same breath try out other options, make media and spokespeople jump from tale to tale, then deny again, scapegoat, find crazier scapegoats, accuse their enemies, accuse enemies families, reverse accuse, gather groups of locos around them to jump up and down -- just act crazier than even they are and so the public and its spokesmedia are so chasing their collective tails that its all obfuscated. Hey I did it! Found a true Trump talent!!
7
Saudis killed Kashogi, lied about it, and are now doing an “investigation”. This is terrorism pure and simple and meant to silence critics.
9
@NSf, get used to it. It's the kind of so-called investigation the US will be experiencing as investigations and verdicts crawl their way up through a Trump-packed "justice" system all the way to the Trump-packed Extreme Court.
3
I hope not. It is notable that the majority voted against Trump. Who knows what will happen in November?
We should be very afraid of Republicans led by Trump who want to sell weapons of mass death to head hunters.
8
So the Saudis want to lie and say they killed Khashoggi in some bogus "rogue" operation gone wrong, so be it. But they should produce his body, and I mean all the pieces, to his friends and family for a proper burial. It truly disgust me that we are giving the Saudis cover for this ridiculous and shameful explanation.
5
Trump is a mouth piece for the dictators. First the Saudis claimed that Mr. Kashoggi left the consulate after his appointment. Now, the new story is that he was killed during interrogation. Tomorrow, we may have a new story.
4
“Saudis May Admit” - that’s a big “May”. Besides, we were told Rogue Killers “May” have done the job. And Donald Trump never makes stuff up.
3
This anticipated explanation of a horrendous crime hints that the Saudi executioners and the Trump administration actually believe they can sell this lie to the American media and citizens.
This is what we get for having diplomacy in the hands of a nincompoop like Jared Kushner, a boy Friday cloaked in Armani suits.
Was the dismemberment of a journalist the work of rouges? The coverup a gang activity? Perhaps he was spirited away by space aliens. Look to Fox News, today's propaganda machine, for some fair and balanced opinions.
10
Never saw the media going after the Saudis like this over September 11.
5
Yeah, because state run tv was too busy trying to pin it on saddam Hussein in Iraq
6
@Steven
There were reporters cheering the Bush/Cheney war on Iraq while helping to cover for the Saudis. Follow the money, even Fox has Saudis owners.
All those fine American patriots are just AOK with their president cozying up to dictators and promoting their lies to cover for their crimes against humanity. As long as you get a $10 a week tax cut and control over women's bodies, it's all good, right?
14
Entirely predictable. The same old outrage over an event for which no real facts have emerged. Trump makes fools out of otherwise rational people.
2
If the Saudis claim that Khashoggi was killed in "interrogation", the United States should demand to see his body.
5
Rogue killers come from rogue societies.
It's time to strip the Middle Eastern culture of its cover as devout. It is a lawless, merciless region of the world, a place the United States should cut all ties to.
8
An accident? Yet their interrogation team was tooled up and prepared for body disposal.
Pull the other one its got bells on!
3
I wonder why newspapers and television continue to use the euphemism:" interrogation gone wrong", as if we were dealing with a conversation that brought about death. What went wrong was torture applied to the man to make him talk. So, let's not be Trumpian about this, make clear what was going on.
13
Not only does he lie to protect himself he has no problem lying for others. All to keep the money flowing. We are better than this!
1
The CEOs of Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and other companies that stand to profit from Trump’s “$100 billion” arms deal with Saudi Arabia have a moral obligation to tell the President that finding the truth about what happened to Jamal Khashoggi must precede any such deal.
3
Here is the question why was he being interrogated?
6
We're dealing with the triumvirate of Erdogan, Salman and Trump. The chances of getting the truth out of these guys are minimal. The hijackers on 9-11 were mostly Saudis. We've never had an adequate explanation of that either. We've been trading oil for human lives for way too long.
8
Who knows what happened? The Saudis sure look guilty, but we’re being spoon fed the agenda of Erdogan and his intelligence services and accepting it as unvarnished truth.
And the disruption of the US/Saudi relationship is certainly in the interests of the Russians and Putin, someone Erdogan has shown a willingness to cozy up with. You certainly can’t avoid the idea that the Turks helped engineer this situation with the idea it could be used to extort Saudi investment and get them out of the dog house with Trump.
The cover story, hatched by Trump when he threw out there that maybe it was a rogue operation ( he is such a master of the Big Lie) does nothing to mitigate that they still tortured and butchered this man and carted him off in suitcases. It won't surprise me that this bogus cover story of a rogue interrogation gone wrong story will suddenly be accepted by everyone, even our congress. Trump is a craven liar, we all know that, even Republicans agree, but when people start to line up behind him for his help in lying for them, it is truly a disgusting spectacle to watch. I thought the Kananaugh lie-fest was bad enough, but when Trump can get the King of Saudi Arabia to go along with his lying cover story of a "rogue operation" that is scary dystopian stuff.
1
“Oops we killed him by mistake” is still and always will be murder.
In the US in Turkey and yes even is SA.
And DJT defends the SA leaders.
So let’s recap....
He mocks the testimony of a woman claiming sexual abuse by a Supreme Court nominee and comes to the defense of a leader who admits to killing a journalist.
How far we have fallen.
But there is something everyone can do...
VOTE!
Democratic leaders have not specified where they will start but the GOP can fully expect that the new House will use its subpoena power to hold this administration accountable.
But everyone must VOTE, for the future they want in this country.
We have all seen firsthand, every day what happens when we take our vote for granted.
5
No journalist is safe. Truth is in great jeopardy of being silenced.
4
Some "shifting story'! Only Donald Trump believes if you're caught in a lie, the next one you tell will be considered the truth. Jamal Khashoggi was a U.S. resident with a green card working for The Washington Post. Mr. Trump owes us more than another "rogue killers" alibi, especially when U.S. intelligence agencies were aware that the Saudis were attempting to "detain" him and somehow did not follow through of their "duty to warn" all U.S. residents when their life is in danger. As with the infamous Trump tower meeting the question that Mr. Trump must answer is: "What did he know, and when did he know it?" Unlike Trump tower, a journalist has been murdered and the President seems to be reprising his failed Air Force One coverup and implicating himself. Like the Sergei Skripal affair, this demands a serious investigation and serious political actions, and not an attempt to brush it under a Turkish carpet and continue with business as usual. Instead, of sending Secretary of Sate Mike Pompeo to Riyahd, he should have been sent to Ankara to see the audio and videotapes the Turks claim to have.
3
Let's see how the greatest ever wonderful deal making works:
1. Go to Saudi Arabia and get praised to skies.
2. Make a deal for 110B arms sale
3. Disturb the delicate balance in middle east politics and wring your hands wen Yemen is bombed and Qatar is isolated
4. Cancel the deal with Iran
5. Watch oil prices rise helplessly
6. Clap your hands when the dictators openly challenge U.S. ability to react.
Even without considering the political nuances and the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, it does not read well.
Some stable genius indeed!
7
" I can stand in the middle of 5th ave and shoot someone and not loose any votes".
An update to that comment might look like, "when my business partners murder someone I support them for the simple reason that business is business.
8
This is a huge, corrupt joke and everyone knows it -- the Saudis, the "business leaders," Donald Trump. It's a fact that 15 (15!) Saudi operatives were flown into Istanbul and that included the main Saudi forensics expert and a major in Saudi intelligence. They did their job and left immediately, body parts in tow. But of course nothing will stand in the way of the American armaments industry making a windfall profit. Nothing will stand in the way of Trump taking credit for that over who cares how many dead bodies (This journalist is the tip of an iceberg of death including a large part of the population of Yemen.). And nothing will stand in the way of a grotesque Saudi leadership ramming their will down the throats of whomever they please. All because they happen to be sitting on top of so much oil.
4
Fox in the chicken coupe is pretty easy to believe and accept: Donald Trump is the blind farmer who shoots his shotgun in the air, over the Fox, because the Fox is his best friend.
All they have to do is march people forward who were involved, have them say they have no memory of being at the embassy in Turkey and the other members of the hit squad are all fine upstanding people. None of whom could possibly have done this. That the people making the accusation must be confused or mistaken. They were just there on a tourist visit. Just like the Soviets did with the guys who killed the former spies in London. They will then add to the confusion by rolling out the name of someone else who must have done it. Understand something. Billionaires like privileged prep school graduates have a code that what happens in the Saudi embassy stays in the Saudi embassy. Just like what happens at Trump tower stays at Trump tower. And for the vast majority of Trump supporters, that is plenty good for them. Case closed. If you are going to question one stinky alibi, you need to question them all. Imagine if Obama rolled out a "rogue killer" theory. The Republicans would have been all over him. Right, Sean? Right, Rush? Right, Laura? But for Trump....All perfectly logical.
7
From a firm denial that Mr. Khashoggi even died to an interrogation gone wrong with a swipe of the hand - the Arab spring continues. When the only direct and seemingly moral response to a crime like this comes from lobbying groups, the alarm bells should be ringing from the hills.
3
Trump & Saudi, LLC are planting the seeds of doubt and confusion very nicely. But it remains, Saudi wanted him interrogated, and they needed 15 men to do that? Of course a couple of those attending were "rogue" interrogators, and the situation got out of hand ending in the death of Khashoggi. And when things-got-out -of-hand why would death suddenly come up. I think Trump & Saudi, LLC are liars. I also think they believe we readers are not intelligent and should return to watching our TV shows. As for our Congress doing something about it, well don't be too surprised to see them in single file walking behind our self-appointed genius POTUS Trump.
3
So even if it wasn’t meant to be a hit job, it became one when the torture got out of hand. How is that more acceptable?
Past time for our federal tax dollars to be used for alternative energy R&D instead of developing weapons to sell to the Oily King.
4
Donald Trump is concerned with protecting Saudi investments in his personal real estate holdings - and bookings at his hotel-and not the moral standing of the United States of America. He helped the Saudis concoct an insulting lie about a murder. For heaven's sake, what does it take to rid ourselves of this stain on our society?
7
So President Trump promotes a story of rogue killers finding the journalist in the consulate, suggesting Saudi Arabia is innocent.
Then, Saudia Arabia's spokespersons prepare to say the man was killed during an interrogation at the consulate.
As many matters remain dubious, facts remain that Trump's been doing business with Saudi royals for 20+ years.
His claim of a $110 billion U.S. arms sale deal to the country isn’t true---- and that was after his $270 billion sales claim from an earlier trip. Zero signed contracts---delivery 10 years away: all of it awarded a Pinocchio by Fact Checker.
Truth is a constant casualty, isn't it.......
4
Is the United States so impoverished and desperate that we need the blood money from sales of weapons to Saudi Arabia? Those weapons we know are being used on innocent women and children in Yemen. I don't want my country profiting from doing business with murderers and liars. The question we should be asking is how is Donald Trump and his family profiting from any sales to Saudi Arabia. This is not about America or US coffers. It is always about D. Trump's corrupt money-grabbing and thievery.
8
The Saudis were behind the 911 attack that killed many Americans but the media never went after them over that connection.
Yet one journalist may or may not have been killed by the Saudis and the media acts like its the end of the world.
I have the same indifference as the media had when the Saudis almost killed members of my family on 911.
Was it was up to the media to do something about that, or or government? Do you ask why Bush didn't do something about that?
You want to hate the press, fine, but it's not their job to protect us from foreign adversaries.
5
@Dan
I blame Bush and the media. Some of us can walk and chew gum. I also remember how there were never numerous articles like this going after the Saudis over 911. Do you remember the journalists who supported our attacking Hussein and NOT the Saudis.
I remember the conservative press being all for it, yes.
But how does that justify murdering journalists to taking an apathetic view of such murders?
"Rogue killers" who arrived on a private jet, entered the consulate without incident while carrying a metal bone saw, performed their hideous acts, and then left on that private jet the same day? Balderdash!
There is no possible way that this could have happened without sanctioning from the Saudoi Prince and MBS themselves. To think that any rational person would swallow this "explanation" of the event is inconceivable.
But then again, rationality has never been Trump's strong suit, nor has it characterized his "base," who obviously prefer to put falsity over truth and profit over people.
Since Trump considers the free press "the enemy of the people," most likely he doesn't much mind that one of these "enemies" was murdered and dismembered by his "good friends" in Saudi Arabia.
It is sickening evidence of the immorality of both Trump and his authoritarian cadre of "friends." And any elected U.S. official who supports this absurdly ludicrous theory of Mr. Khashoggi's murder is just as vile and despicable as the POTUS and his hand-picked sycophant, Mike Pompeo .
We must reject this kind of deceit and chicanery on Nov. 6th through the power of the voting booth!
6
World leadership on human rights? No. What''s it worth? World leadership on state-sanctioned murder? Don't interfere, unless you can put a dollar value on it. Growing sense of entitlement of authoritarian world leaders to act with impunity? That's a bit interesting, observed from afar, but how does it affect me? I'm busy building a wall to keep out all the murderers, rapists, and lyrical poets.
I'll just concentrate all my energies on Making America Great Again. And chasing the next "deal."
3
So what will happen to the "rogue" killers? Probably nothing. I'm predicting that several other Saudi Arabian prisoners will be publicly beheaded so that tRump can say justice was served.
Ladies and gentlemen....our president. Conspiring with authoritarian governments on a worldwide basis. He's finally gotten away with murder.
4
How inconvenient that there are actually consequences for luring a person into a pre-meditated murder trap in your consulate! I hope it gets more and more inconvenient and the murderous prince and his henchmen are tossed, and then arrested and tried.
3
President Trump desperately needs to learn to suppress his personal opinions until debriefed by our government intelligence agencies. His remarks make him appear weak and ill-informed. The security of our country is at stake!
1
Either our POTUS is extraordinarily naive, maybe even a little thick, or he's simply a brazen prevaricator with no respect for the intelligence of people in this country who are actually paying attention.
I guess those swallowing the "mob" bait is his target with this kind of nonsense defending the Kingdom's response.
As for SA, they are either in the community of civilized nations, or they're not.
Their choice is easy.
Choose well.
3
As I type this, Pompeo is having a word with MBS.
All good.
Except that by the body language of the two men, MBS is the one having a word with Pompeo.
The very same body language Putin used on Trump when he dismissed protocol pulled him aside leading Trump to declare—“Putin denied it and I believe him.”
Within the hour watch Pompeo spout the very same words—“MBS denied it and I believe him.”
These bunch of cowards do not belong in the home of the brave.
8
Have the CEOs of Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing, etc made any comments about this horrifying case? Are they still happy to accept the billions of dollars Trump apparently helped them win in weapons contracts from the murderous Saudi regime?
8
Of course they are.
1
If he was killed "accidentally" during a politically motivated interrogation, it's considered involuntary manslaughter, and all the perpetrators and conspirators must be brought to justice.
4
Of course it was rogue killers, Donald. Perhaps it was the group of German-led terrorists who gained entry to the Nakatomi Building in Los Angeles one Christmas Eve and disabled the entire alarm system to rob the vaults, killing several people in the building who got in their way.
Did your intel source tell you if anyone in addition to Mr Khashoggi was murdered that day, Donald?
Talks a tough game in his rallies, but Trump is either a total coward when it comes to standing up to countries like Russia or Saudi Arabia, or showing yet again that he is their puppet. Could be out of fear, personal debt or plain greed - "who knows?"
I can't believe all those "real Americans" that hang on to his every word really think that this weak, malleable individual is fit to lead their country.
11
The image of President Trump wringing his hands over this horrible killing and musing over the Saudi's attempt (now as defunct as the earlier story that Khashoggi had left the consulate) to blame "rogue killers" is pathetic. It is obvious that Trump only cares about the future of arms sales to the Saudis, i.e., so he can boast about jobs created in the defense industry. If the Iranians had killed one of its citizens, a US resident working for a US newspaper, Trump would have been threatening massive retaliation.
4
It is blatantly obvious that Trump and Jared Kushner are in the pockets of the Saudi king and prince, as well as Putin.
Follow the money!!!
This is what our country has come to.
Even the CEOs of Chase, Black Rock and Blackstone are not going to the financial summit in SA. in stark contrast to Mnuchin
Never expected to see the day when bankers had the integrity to walk away from an opportunity for enrichment.
Jamie Dimon was correct when he said that he was smarter than Trump!
6
Everything about this is disgusting.
Until Trump is forced from office, our democracy is lost.
7
Why aren’t the media calling this for what it is? A murder coverup with Trump as a complicit accessory after the fact.
5
While I'm not a Trump supporter, I understand where he is coming from. It hasn't been confirmed whether the journalist was indeed murdered by the Saudis. And if Trump condemns them prematurely, and it turns out that the journalist died under differing circumstances to the narrative promulgated by the media at the moment, then this would be heavily scrutinised.
Think about it in terms of a type 1 and type 2 error, so a type 2 error is much more serious than a type 1 error, and almost all presidents acknowledge this. It is much easier and effective politically (regardless of party) to assume your ally to be telling the truth when you don't have solid evidence to confirm the contrary.
1
MbS has his money cannon aimed at Washington now, buying all the kind words he can get. He needs US support because he has none at home. The other royals hate him for locking them up and extorting billions, and the common folks have no vote and no political power.
7
With Iran sanctions to take full effect from November, Russia sanctions already in place, rising fuel prices all over the world, and Saudi threats of repercussions which will most likely come in the form of cutting oil supplies, the US and rest of the world will have to buy this " Rogue Killer" or any such theory that Saudis may propagate. Just like when we accepted that Bin Laden was hiding in a country without the knowledge of that Government or powerful military during Obama. Many of our friends like Saudis and adversaries like Russia or China display similar behavior. It's our treatment towards them and rationale behind that treatment which changes according to our priorities. The moral arguments behind those decisions are just to convince ourselves more than anything. The Saudi-US closeness is not a phenomenon created by Trump, thus blaming him squarely for this is politically convenient at best.
2
What bothers me is that something like this happened - a
premeditated murder was carefully planned and executed by agents of the State (together with two airplanes and bone-saw) - and the powers that be don's seem to care.
Not a wrinkle in Saudi Arabia itself - a cowed population of 10-million - all of this speaks to a kingdom ruled by fear. The world heard of Saddam Hussein's Iraq as a Republic of Fear. Never about the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is also a Kingdom ruled by Fear.
What kind of a world are we living in?
3
“Many in Washington have reached the conclusion that this is a guy we can’t do business with.”
In the larger context, this is the most ominous line. We're caught between two possibilities. 1) A young Saudi ruler going too far and not understanding limits or prudence which can be reined in with counsel and wisdom. 2) The early signs of young Saudi leader showing his cards as being an out of control brutal dictator.
I sincerely hope it's the first and we should not completely abandon this possibility, yet. The instability and outcomes in the Middle East are going to be quite dark if it's the second. Given what's happening in Yemen, amplified on a larger scale as to so offend our basic sense of humanity, another generation of Americans may, or rather will, end up having to fix it.
Outrage is warranted and necessary, but don't be in such a rush to see possibility #2 come to reality. We still have to try for now.
3
It is a free market of facts, and free markets are always right. When one set of facts proves unsatisfactory, create another one. The new twist is the trial–ballooning of possible scenarios that allow one to identify the alternative facts with the best chance to succeed. It is all happening in front of our eyes so that no one can complain of deception.
4
This certainly looks like collusion. Also obstruction of justice. And self/family -enrichment (emoluments clause).More grist for Mueller's mill?
5
The King's denial is meaningless when MBS is running the show. Instead of trying to figure out what happened, here is a quick thought of a big picture scenario why there is such an outrage and the potential ramifications.
To begin with, Khashoggi is no ordinary journalist. He went back all the way to the Soviet Afghanistan. The fact that he was friendly with the young Osama Bin Laden - even made an eulogy of sort when OBL was killed on Twitter - and still becomes a Washington Post's "columnist" in his self-imposed exile shows his staying power. The guy has deep connections.
MBS's claim to fame is not letting Saudi women drive. Seriously, big deal! Rich Saudi women were able to drive oversea for a long time. A false narrative to buff his image. Like every dictator wannabe, this is a smoke screen for him to consolidate power and kidnap fellow cousins and rich Saudis for princely ransoms.
MBS has a lot of powerful enemies from the apolitical financiers to maybe even the Wahhabis lying low for an opportunity to strike back. Khashoggi may very well be this opportunity. But how about the American support? MBS did a pretty good PR campaign during his U.S. tour. Deep down though, everyone was hoping for Armaco IPO. But it couldn't. The carrot may get cold. And the naked power play of seizing his cousins for ransom will give people pause. If King Salmon is smart and still capable, he needs to reconsider his favorite son bet
5
Just exactly what is a “rogue killer?”
A lot of attention is being spent on Trump’s theory. But, given this guy Trump’s lack of skill with the English Language, who knows what he means.
However, when all is over, count on Ms. Sanders, to spin it it the most favorable fashion for Trump.
That means she’ll lie.
11
The president disrespects the American people. He won't tell us the truth because he it's not politically expedient to do so. It's one shameful lie after another to support his agenda or maybe ego. Consequently, he will attempt to shape history to his liking. I find it appalling. History will not let him get away with it.
18
Trump, MBS, Erdogan are Birds of same feather……..
An unbelievable Cover-Up Process after a pre-planned coldblooded Murder in the year of 2018, involving some of the
most powerful World Players. Back to Medieval Times.
18
When was Alfred E. Newman elected president?
As long as you deny, deny, deny and emphatically say nothing happened, well then, nothing happened!
19
Re: American intelligence agencies had previously intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to draw Mr. Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia from his home in exile in the Washington area and then detain him, a former senior American official said last week
So , why did NO ONE warn Mr. Khashoggi? No senator?
THAT needs to be investigated
19
@Gerhard--We do not know if they did or did not.
3
ummm... if you're planning on “interrogating” someone... you don’t bring a bone saw.
35
Trump says,
"...spoke to the King of Saudi Arabia who denies any knowledge of whatever may have happened...”
"I have President Putin, he just said it’s not Russia...President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.”
How much longer is America going to tolerate this traitor, Trump? Are we going to wait until he kills us, all?
35
I think this is a good app which I would like to have on my phone
Where is his (dismembered) body?
16
Since when is having a team of "interrogators" waiting in their embassy to abduct and interrogate someone acceptable? They talk as if his dying is the only thing wrong with the actions. And of course we all know that they never intended to have a critic of the Kingdom walk out of the embassy to then write about being tortured. Some common sense please.
That said, what should follow is international condemnation of the actions. Not sanctions. If countries were to impose sanctions on other countries for individual atrocities, no one would trade with anyone. Yes, if you annex Crimea or use chemical weapons on citizens--buy anything less then that is not warranted. Countries could sanction us for not punishing police brutality, or for efforts our CIA make in toppling foreign governments etc.
Strong international condemnation, not sanctions. This did not occur in our territory.
11
The Saudis and Russians own DT. He knows it. So will Mueller.
26
Is it possible that MBS was framed by conservative clans in royal family? He surely has a lot of enemies and it is well in keeping with traditions of KSA.
2
Saudi Arabia is our ally. If they made a mistake there must be consequences. But Trump is right. We must not hold back arms sales. That would only hurt America.
2
We might want to rethink the wisdom of being allied with a country whose rulers murder journalists, kidnap foreign leaders, and inflict humanitarian catastrophes. Just a thought.
33
@Paul Ans which Arab nation does not do that if it serves their interests? And America has been known to murder a dictator or two. Remember Diem in Vietnam? Google it. Khadaffy. etc.
Why are we allies with and selling arms to one of the biggest exporters of state-sponsored terrorism and home to all but one of the 9/11 perpetrators? I'm not overly concerned about the welfare of defense contractors.
2
As of now we have evidence that Khashaggi can not be found by those who want to find him: family, friends, colleagues et al. He disappeared. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is dead.
Just as we do not know (k n o w !) that Hoffa was murdered, we do not know, as of this moment, that this well-connected rich Arab columnist is dead.
This does not mean that Arabs killing Arabs should surprise any of us.
3
@boroka---The Turks say they have a video of him being killed.
1
@Pat If you and the NYT does not say:
"Let us --- US --- see that video."
then who is refusing to learn the truth?
I've been considering what the future holds related to the alleged killing of the Saudi Journalist in Istanbul and anticipating a possible Arab Oil Embargo inflicted on us if we punish Saudi Arabia for killing the dissident. It might work to our long term benefit. If the global oil supply is reduced as a result of this debacle, we would lose in the short term, paying very high prices, but our national production would be ramped up along with release of some of the strategic national oil reserve, but more importantly, it would be another economic shock that results in massive growth of alternative energy means and conservation. So do not fear a possible embargo. Under the current oil consumption/global warming situation, it would help us into the distant future. Be brave and do not fear the political ramifications of serving justice in this most grievous alleged murder of an American resident Journalist.
I'm uncomfortable knowing that Trump would cooperate with the head hunters in covering up the alleged murder. What does it say about our leader?
4
@Shakinspear. What it says about the president is that he is willing to go along with a nation, any nation, that murders their citizens. He has no moral compass and even with his limited vocabulary can find a way to couch murder. Mr. Khashoggi did not “die” as the Saudi’s have said, he was murdered. There is no way to spin murder, but the president will give it his best effort, and find cover for the Saudis.
4
Turkey is desperate for loans, and Trump is greedy for arms sales, so it has become imperative for what has happened -- the Putin-like assassination of a dissident -- not to have happened.
This has happened before: the United States turning a blind eye to a Middle Eastern autocrat in order to sell him weapons.
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
It did not end well, then. It won't, now, either.
4
This is really pathetic. No wonder Trump lives in a bubble that is HIS reality. The reality is that we have a greedy bully who will cater to the slime of the world for more money. And you can bet there was some back door deal that benefits either him or Kuschner. The sick part is that almost half our country seems willing to accept anything this president does and the revisionist history.
Pontius Pilate got rid of Jesus because he was a rabble-rouser rocking the boat of Roman rule of the region. He was making Rome Great again. How do y'all feel about that? Well, this is the slippery slope that we are going down. And don't forget the fate of the Romans.
When we lose our moral compass, we lose our humanity. For all you Reagan Republicans out there, his "shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere" is being destroyed.
I guess killing someone when interrogating them and then sawing them up is not as bad as just killing them before you dismember them.
Look up Saudi Arabia's corporal punishment for non-violent crimes.
This man was a permanent resident of the US who was part of the AMERICAN press. If Trump can trade his death for a pie in the sky future weapons deal, are any of us safe?
Maybe we should manufacture things other than tools of war.
Trump said a vote for GOP candidates is a vote for him. Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you can follow him to Perdition before you cast your vote.
17
The reality is when you have someone in the White House making up excuses for the house of Saud that tells me we don't have too far to reach the bottom ethically. We are there. Money Money Money. MBS has destroyed Yemen and we have 20 million people starving, he could care less about killing one of his own in my opinion.
17
Nobody has commented on the fact that some "rogue killers," that is, anyone in particular, could be rounded up by the Saudis, and given their penchant for public executions, simlly executed. And there it is. Killers gone.
4
Human rights cannot come between a good arms deal! Would be absurd to allow one mans life stand in the way of weapons that can kill thousands!
21
How gullible can Trump be before even his clueless supporters finally dump him? He protected both Roy Moore and Putin, saying on behalf of each that "He totally denies it". Now he doesn't criticize Saudi denials and suggests some absurd claim of "Rogue Killers" were at fault, INSIDE the Saudi consulate?
I wonder how many times Trump bought the Brooklyn Bridge when he was spending Daddy's money growing up in Queens?
11
It looks like the Saudis are taking a page out Trump's book: ineptly and transparently lying. I wonder how many stories they will try out before crying "fake news," and blaming the journalist for his own demise.
12
@katherinekovach--I think that when Trump said "journalists are the enemy of the people", the Saudi's believed him and did not think there would be an outcry by the rest of the world.
2
Trump: climate change is a Chinese hoax.
Trump: Obama is not an American.
Trump: my inauguration was the biggest ever.
Trump: rogue killers in private jets killed Khashoggi.
Which of the above bears any resemblance to the truth?
21
No one has talked about what piece was Jamal working on?
What did the Saudi's not want printed? What was the story he was after?
8
Shifting stories, eh? Birds of a feather....
3
This is CIA director Gina Haspell's first egregious error. She should have complied with the law and warned Jamal Khashoggi. That she did not do so makes her an accomplice in the Saudis' crime. Anyone in the White House whom she informed about the intercepted messages is also a partner in the crime: John Kelly? Don McGhan? Jared Kushner? Trump?
When asked about her role in Bush-era torturing, Haspell lied under oath: this we found out after the GOP rushed her confirmation. We've seen Kelly, McGahn, Kushner, and Trump lie in public. Now we will discover which of them, besides Haspell, was willing to let the Saudis kill an American resident, a journalist, a human being.
20
@Yorick---You do NOT know if she warned him. Face it; you are speculating without proof.
Would he have walked into a death trap if he had been warned?
Of course Trump would find a way to protect his wealthy friend and his own interests that he has in Saudi Arabia and his rich buddies in the arms industries.
13
It will be very interesting to hear what Mr.Pompeo has to say when he returns from Saudi Arabia and his discussion with MBS. It will be good news if he comes back with doubt and wanting a further investigation.It will be bad news and a sign of a coverup if his conclusion is that "rogue" elements were involved.
12
No one on Capital Hill is surprised by this. Saudi Arabia has been involved in the financing of terrorists for decades. The Royal family are as ruthless as they come, both internally and externally. And while America launched a war on terrorism, Saudi Arabia got a pass because of their puppet status with us. They allow several US owned military bases to operate on their soil and they are, essentially, our strategic oil reserve. So let us not be so aghast. We live in a wicked world and much of that wickedness was fomented by us.
19
@Aurora
It is such hypocrisy for the media to suddenly want answers from the Saudis over a connected journalist. What about all their other atrocities?
1
Will the Trump administration demand that the Saudis arrest the so-called rogue elements and put them on an open trial?
Of course, the Saudis could stage-manage a trial and may use it to bring charges against innocent persons whom they want to get rid of, but it would be impossible to fool the whole world all the time.
7
If there are rogue killers they should be arrested - or at least indicted. As that hasn't happened this theory is phony.
6
Trump's penchant for stretching the truth aka lying was bad enough but to now to appear to side with a murderous autocrat is worse. If this is where your national interests force you to go, you should start by re-examining those interests and their hold on your good sense.
11
I understand that the Democratic outrage machine is anxious to discredit Trump by any means possible - even if it harms America by requiring us to sever ties with an important ally against Iran (who has been swearing "death to American for 40 years and is a major funder for suicide bombers in the Middle East).
But are we really prepared to sever ties to China (thousands dissidents "disappeared" or killed), refuse to negotiate with NKorea (the leader's brother and political rival assassinated), and any other country that kills a dissident or a spy?
And remind me, how many Jihadists (including an American) has the US assassinated with drone strikes or by other means on foreign soil - even under Obama?
This happened on Saudi soil (every embassy and consulate is the sovereign soil of the country represented) to a Saudi citizen.
Really, who cares?
Alternatively, we can simply refuse to talk to and/or to supply arms with or trade with all countries who have engaged in political assassination - including BTW Turkey.
4
Perhaps you would feel differently if a family member, or a fellow American citizen, visited the U.S. Embassy in Greece and was tortured and killed.
Saudi Arabia’s actions in this case are different from all of those cited in your comments.
9
@Stephen Gianelli
Yes, most of the rage is directed at Trump. Pretty much anything he does will set his critics off at this point. Today it's the Saudis. Yesterday, Putin. Tomorrow, it will be someone else.
It would be a big mistake to base our foreign policy on this kind of rage.
Come on. The Saudi pathologist would have to have been on the plane, with his bone saw, when Khashoggi was entering the Saudi Consulate. Now they want us to believe it was an accident? They are just trying to create a microscopic amount of doubt so some world leaders (like Trump and Erdogan) can back away from possible sanctions. The world knows that this order came from the crown prince.
10
A really despicable fiction (which was probably contrived and suggested by the USA). No one will believe this story of rogue elements. The USA must put human rights above Trump’s lust for deals and money. Stop arms deal, stop the killing in Yemen, sanction and boycott Saidi Arabia. Oh, and be sure these rogue killers are not allowed to escape Saudi Arabia on Pomoeo’s plane.
14
A Washington Post journalist killed? Why Trump should bother?
This guy is so close to dictators, I don't understand what we expect from him.
7
Seriously, it will „ease the crisis“ for the Saudis when they admit that he got „mistakenly killed“ during „interrogation“?
Is it like: they had a chat over a cup of Turkish tea and suddenly he had a stroke?
In which world do we live when admitting that you killed someone while torturing him „eases“ your case?
Killing while torturing is one of the most cruel form of murder.
But business is more important than humanity.
19
If you truly want this game over march on the White House with 5 or 10 million people. Make the or man step down or face the mob.
6
“It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers — who knows,” Mr. Trump said, ...
At the core of the problem with this president and his administration, and all the Republican supporters of it, is the lack of any moral compass, the perfect example being Trump becoming the prominent spokesperson for a new explanation of a political murder by a foreign nation.
13
The choice of Turkey for this politically motivated killing to have happened is not coincidence. The release of the audio recording was aimed at putting Saudi Arabia in direct collision course with America. The outcome is either (a) America becomes weaker because it cannot rein in its friends;or (b) risks relationship with Saudi Arabia threatening America’s geopolitical interests I the Middle East. Both outcomes surprisingly appealing to Putin (Erdorgan’s best friend).
8
Mysteriously Trump's buddies always admately deny any knowledge of poisoning, killing, kidnapping, interfering, or election meddling. Unfortunately when you hang out with "rogue killers" you have to hope they don't turn their attentiontion to you. Being President does not exempt you from them collecting on a debt.
4
It's cool what money can do. They get the president of the United States to float the "rogue killers" story.
10
Munchkin is facing a moral dilemma, no decision until Friday.
1
@BBB---When did he get morals?
2
Why is your Secretary of State jetting off to the Kingdom? Do the Saudis require American cover-up assistance?
14
The reason the Saudi are taking so long to propound the "rogue actors" theory is that they realize this time their story must be plausible.
So they are frantically binge watching "CSI - Miami" to make sure their bases are covered. They are now up to the 2008 season.
Also, since their current Washington PR firms have bailed on them, they are trying to hire a new one. The Trump Organization is hanging tough and demanding a retainer of $750,000 a month. a huge increase from the $150k they were paying Glover.
9
Two nations, the USA and Saudi Arabia, are enthralled by the belly dance of money and will not permit anything to interrupt their leering at it.
7
This is absurd... It is much more likely that Trump and Jared are complicit or, at the very least, they gave tacit approval to this murder.
8
Let’s recap: two “rogue killers” flew from Saudi Arabia to Istanbul the n riveted jets, gained entry to the Saudi consulate, took Jamal Khashoggi into a room where they murdered him, cut up his body, then flew back to Saudi Arabia the same day.
And our President believes that story? Of course he doesn’t but he has such disdain for the American public and his supporters that he thinks we will. What a shameful greedy man he is. He will protect his business dealings at any cost, even if it involves murder.
Where Saudi Arabia is concerned, NOTHING happens without the knowledge of the rulers.
11
Victim was accidentally dismembered, after being accidentally killed?
20
@Rupert Get your terminology straight. It wasn't an accident, it was a "mistake". The mistake being that it set off an un-anticipated firestorm of negative public opinion that spoiled MBS's big party in Riyadh for the elite of the financial world. Now Jamie Dimon has to cancel to avoid getting the stench of a Saudi crime against humanity all over his expensive suit.
1
Saudi Arabia’s story is essentially “no collusion, no collusion.”
13
Nothing a spanking brand new Trump Tower Riyadh can't fix. The Presidency of the United States can be bought and has been bought. Again and again.
15
Trump has no humanitarian values.
15
The American citizenry has no President. The Saudis do, Russia does. In the pocket. Donald Trump is their boy.
12
Rogue killers without consequences and without videos apparently.
3
Rogue killers, rogue state. Fits.
Expect the recovery of the Saudi stock market to be led by whitewash futures.
2
Pompey and Mnuchin are just going to see what sort of story and deal they can still salvage from this blunder by the talented Kushner.
10
Why should a journalist be killed? I just do not understand the logic behind this. By killing him you are accepting that what he stood for is right.
Who are these so called "rogue killers" but Saudi sponsered killers, in this case. It is a premedidated murder to silence the dissenting voice. If a government is not in agreement with the version of a journalist, it could very well give its counter and show how the journalist has gone wrong with his facts. Killing him is unacceptable in a civilized society.
I see Jamal as another Daniel Pearl.
13
I have to take time off from the news. Dismembered journalist -- what's next from the Trump era? It's turning from a political nightmare into a real time horror movie. Seriously, what comes next? Are we going to find Mattis in pieces on the beach? Novichok in Hillary's eau de cologne?
13
Do doctors always carry bone saws, just in case?
14
Rogue killers?
Yes, but of course and the moon is really made of cheese.
Knowing the kingdom like I do, I also know that no one gets into a Saudi embassy or consulate on business without the express and written OK by the government, that is the king and/or MbS.
In fact this lie only shows us that the guys from the kingdom do not really care what lies or Taquiyah they tell the infidels as they do not matter to them.
This is no more than an attempt of Trump and his friends to explain away the obvious and keep Trump's access to corruption money from the kingdom.
15 Saudis in two private jets in a Saudi consulate are not rogue killers, they are a state ordered hit gang and murder and they and their country should be treated as such.
No more lies and excuses Mr. Trump, you better take he fall for this one as well.
19
The Turks said that the Saudi Team of 15 people that flew in on private jets had brought a bone-saw. They also offered proof that one of the 15 people was a doctor who was an autopsy specialist.
These men arrived before Khassogi even stepped into the embassy, they were waiting for him.
Why would they bring a doctor in that group of 15 who specializes in autopsies unless they had already made plans to kill him and chop with up into pieces and dispose of the body. If they were only planning to kidnap and abduct him why the need for a autopsy expert.
This was premeditated and pre-planned and the only one who could have authorized such a crazy operation must be the king or the Crown Prince.
21
The quest for “the truth” is a straw man.
6
Who among us doesn't remember the term "alternative facts"? This time it's "rogue killers". The first excuse our fair haired one was "we do a lot of business with them, you know". That's an excuse he thinks everyone will accept for defending a cold blooded country who just kills anyone who gets in their way. So Mr Khashoggi is just gone because the prince objected to what he had to say. He was also a much needed reporter who told the real truth about a country with so many injustices that ordinarily don't get heard. Business over humanity! We are so lost under the leadership of this ignorant amoral president!
13
I think most of the free world has figured this out – we have rogue president in the White House.
22
If Khashoggi's murderers were "rogue killers", then the regime of Murderous Bovine Sewage (MBS) runs a rogue government.
I hope Arabians wake up fast, and dispose of that regime. An enlightened Hajj crowd would make a fine coup group to march against those butchers of rights and journalists.
-----
"Mr. Khashoggi’s fate has transfixed official Washington"
Wait, are we using Greenwaldspeak now? "official Washington"?
*Especially* now, after GG's trashed Callimachi's heroic protection of and reporting on ISIS documents and denied Russia even murders people for revenge, on The Intercept? Bizarre...
Putin denied it, Kim Jon un denied it, Manafort denied it, Kavanaugh denied it, Roy Moore denied it, Saudi Arabia denied it. Trump believes them all, and they are innocent until proven guilty.
The FBI lied, the CIA lied, Obama lied, Hillary lied, Stormy lied, Dr. Ford lied, Roy Moore's accusers lied, audiotapes lie, videotapes lie. But they are all guilty because Trump's gut tells him so.
The statue of Liberty is crying, and the Founding Fathers are all turning in their graves.
23
A shifting story; now who does that remind you of?
9
No one accidentally kills someone after they bring in a team with saws. Sorry. The world is not that stupid.
16
One wonders why it took so long for the Saudis to realize there were rogue killers at the Saudi embassy, unless everyone at the embassy colluded with them. Good thing everyone is giving the Saudis infinite time to come up with a story.
8
Did the bone saw start its trip from Saudi Arabia before or after the interrogation gone wrong? If before then it was clearly never planned as an interrogation.
5
MBS will have his mouthpiece, Trump, deliver the propaganda via Pompeo. They're beyond fake news now.
5
Russia and Saudi Arabia have their puppet - he lives in the WH.
7
I wish this news entity (and its readers) would attempt (accept) something less flimsy than "according to a person familiar with the kingdom's plans".
1
Of course we have no idea that any press reports are correct or even have any truth to them, but if they do this guy was murdered.
1
Now the world knows that the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul is actually a safe house for "rogue killers". How many more safe houses are there in the world? Are there any such safe houses in the US? Who are these "rogue killers" and who are their masters?
4
Wow. A “botched interrogation” for which an autopsy expert was reportedly present?!?
And the president left to look either complicit or lied-to (and so willing to believe the lie that it probably amounts to complicity anyway) by this so-called ally. In any event, totally spineless and a-moral. But why am I surprised that he wouldn’t defend an “enemy of the State”?
This would be ridiculous if the issues at stake were not so serious - an extrajudicial murder of a journalist by a country on another country’s soil.
I hope all of those working at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul are safe. They must all be under the cloud of suspicion given the reported video and audio evidence.
4
It’s a creepy coincidence that we have 15 Saudis that flew in to “do the deed” at their embassy in Istanbul. The same number of Saudis (out of 19) were involved in the 9/11 attacks. There was never any punishment or sanctions for those atrocities, and why would anyone think this will be any different? I’m glad we at least have the Magnitsky Law now, but there has to be the will to apply it.
10
Once again we are ready to forgive. 11 Saudi nationals attacked us 18yrs ago and we attacked NOT Saudi Arabia. Once again Saudi Arabia is going to get away with it.
Iran is our enemy and climate change is a hoax. Let’s keep chanting this. Till one of them gets us. Only then will we understand the truth but will one of be there to acknowledge this?
6
As expected, Trump has taken a moral issue and turned it into an economic issue. Instead of demanding a full investigation, Trump, for his own financial interests with the Saudis and to keep Saudi purchases from Lockheed, Raytheon, etc. intact, is all too willing to go along with Saudi denials in this horrific event. The murder was a cowardly act of a defenseless journalist. Trump's glossing over the murder demonstrates once again his cowardice and amorality. I doubt Trump ever read The Prince but his playbook is clearly Machiavellian. To Trump, the ends always justifies the means.
5
Honestly we were using the chain saw just as a intimidation tool, but our interogater slipped and fell on him multiple times.
5
Yes, they may have been rogue killers in the Saudi Embassy. It is as likely as Christine Blasey Ford confused some other sexual attacker with Brett Kavanaugh. Not so much.
Do you see a pattern of attempted deception here? Stories concocted and pulled out of thin air creating unlikely scenarios and whose only purpose is to hide the disgusting truth.
Trump has repeatedly called journalists the enemy of the people. The Donald bares responsibility as an instigator for attacks and murders on journalists. No wonder he does not want the truth to come out.
6
I'm glad that there is heat being put on the Saudi's but, it does seem unfair that the thousands of Yemini citizens killed in the war against Yemen has barely caused an uproar, but the killing of one Saudi journalist is making the front page headlines for days. As unfortunate as Khashoggi's murder is, if it can put a stop to the unnecessary war in Yemen, maybe his murder will have brought about some good.
5
Where in the Quran did King Salman find the justification to kill a journalist. Then Trump sent Pampeo to the Kingdom on a mission to sell a spin on "rogue killer" to further advance his convoluted financial interest while in office. Please call it what it is; premeditated murder by King Salman to silence his critics and Trump is more than willing to participate in the cover up for his own personal gain.
6
Trump is on this. He's going to assign the case to the crack FBI team that so quickly resolved the Kavanaugh sexual assault mystery. So the news cycle will be moving on to something else in three days -- four days max. Maybe statehood for Guam. And if the FBI fumbles the ball, don't worry. He's going to put OJ on it, for as long as it takes.
1
This shouldn’t help anyone with anything. The man was murdered in the Saudi consulate. Nobody was in that building without official permission. They need to produce the body. If it was an “interrogation gone wrong” where is the body?
2
@Alison Cartwright No doubt it has been disposed of in some gruesome fashion, never to be seen again. Clearly the Saudis woefully underestimated the consequences of this murder. They hoped it would just 'go away' on its own. That's the thing with people who disappear, they usually have loved ones that care deeply about them and won't stop looking until they have answers. And of course, this poor man worked for the Washington Post, a very large loudspeaker indeed!
3
Even in a case as awful as this, somebody dead, I am still ready to take off 2 minus points (I cannot add even one plus point) for the fact that Saudi Arabia is considering backing off the blatant lie.
This might be a lie too, but it is less of a lie than the other lie.
Ha - determining what happened to Khashoggi is of paramount importance to Trump only so he and the Saudis get their stories straight for public consumption.
This was NOT an interrogation gone wrong by an overzealous anyone.
It was a planned, premeditated execution and butchery.
But, of course, the amoral unprincipled madman in the WH will never alienate the Saudis. Therefore, the American people will be subjected to yet another LIE as we travel down the slippery slope of dishonor.
5
Erdogan of Turkey is quite familiar with this "roque killer" ploy! When a Turkish fighter shot down a Russian plane for crossing into Turkey during a bombing run in Syria, Erdogan was quick to take credit. In fact, he was boastful. "We'll do it again if necessary!" he was shouting. But when Putin stopped the flow of Russian tourists into Turkey, with disastrous consequences for the tourism industry, Erdogan quickly changed his tune. It was the rogue pilots! They were responsible! I believe those two innocent pilots ended up in jail to save Sultan Erdogan's face.
I'm afraid the Saudis may behead some of those "rogue" 15 seen entering Turkey for the assassination to save the Saudi Sultan's face.
2
Turkey might ask Saudis to hand over those fifteen hit-men to Turkey for prosecution. There is no Diplomatic Immunity, when you do an Undiplomatic Act. USA should press Turkey for this. We need the truth.
1
I’m about to achieve my “three score and ten” on this earth. My very selfish wish for myself is that I never have to see, hear, or read about Trump again. I sincerely want to enjoy my remaining years.
12
For the Saudi's and Trump, truth means nothing. Integrity means nothing. In a top-down society like Saudi Arabia, nothing happens without the approval from the top-period. What Trump does and what the Saudi's are apparently willing to do is spin the truth, distort the truth, and lie outright. The Saudi's are responsible for the death of Khashoggi, and they are a cruel and a heartless lot, who rule absolutely without any controls or safeguards.
5
It gives one hope that so many businesses and other institutions are actually prepared to lose money by sanctioning Saudi Arabia. Of course, one also hopes that this isn't just a short-term PR exercise for the sake of the 'optics'. A sustained campaign is needed.
It is high time that the world as a whole reconsidered its relationship with Saudi Arabia. Khashoggi's murder is deeply disturbing, but it pales by comparison to the war in Yemen. That, at the very least, is ample reason to isolate and sanction this murderous regime.
Why should Iran get all the heat from the US? They aren't killing women and children wholesale in a dubious conflict. The fact that American weapons are being used to commit these wholesale massacres is further cause for shame.
As much as the nation's moral compass has been tarnished under Trump, the American people and their representatives need to look in the mirror and ask themselves -- how can we continue to do business with these people?
3
Mr Trump is complicit, by his comments and actions, in the coverup of Khashoggi’s disappearance. But is he complicit in the disappearance itself? Reports that US intelligence was aware of the plot before it unfolded and failed to notify Mr Khashoggi are disturbing and should be thoroughly investigated. That probably won’t happen until the balance of power in the House shifts.
5
The Russians poison a so called enemy in England (also resulting in one death and the injury of several other innocents) and Congress forces Trump to accept sanctions.
Saudi Arabia murders a so called enemy, and what happens? Will Congress again be forced to take the lead on sanctions? Will anyone even act?
During the investigation into the 9-11 attack, Saudi Arabia received what amounted to a "get out of jail free" card. Hopefully, not again. Not this time.
2
Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship that regularly practices murder and torture. What exactly is the shock? Are we pretending this wasn't just Monday for an oppressive regime? The ability of people to delude themselves never ceases to amaze me. Truly, I'm trying to comprehend this current but welcome outrage. The Yemeni people could have used your awareness during the Obama administration as well. Better late than never.
3
The killing of journalists is common practice for dictators around the world of course in a civilised democracy this could never happen. Well not to begin with, what tends to happen is trumped up charges are laid and the target is jailed. The killing begins later in the cycle, it's a slippery slope America!
Trump wanted to go with they were talking about adoptions when things got out of hand, but the Saudis insisted on rogue killers.
2
USA government is basically not going to do anything against Saudi Arabia of any consequence. No apple carts will-be turned over. Just maybe the King will repramand his son. One should be more concerned on the war footing to come because of China/Russia better weapon systems. I wonder which will come first climate catastrophe or war. We need leaders to rethink strategies toward world peace based on mutual understanding of dire consequences instead of this absurd military economic economy.
If the Saudis killed Kashoggi this is a dastardly deed. But it makes one wonder why the world is so troubled by this single murder, ready to take extreme action against the Saudi regime, yet is rushing to do business with and legitimize Iran where murder of its citizens is routine.
When a moral tone is set, there are consequences. Whether it was the "do whatever it takes" attitude after 9/11, Obama not enforcing the red line, and especially Trump's yearning to bring back torture and go along with dictator cover-up stories, other leaders are watching and taking their cues. Before it was just terrorists being tortured, so it didn't bother us much, now it's just reporters, but you know, they play a dangerous game when they criticize their government. " . . . and then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me" (Niemoeller) Just a reminder of how far this can go.
2
Once Trump's "rogue killers" theory is linked with shifting official Saudi stance of initial ignorance to admitting death in interrogation the real plot of eliminating the inconvenient Jamal Khashggi starts coming to the surface that turns all the explanations about Khashoggi's mysterious murder a mere cover up of a Saudi hatched conspiracy against the slain journalist.
2
Trump offers us a classic example of his flim-flam approach to honesty and the truth. He lied to us about Mr. Khashoggi's murder in the same manner he's lied about countless other matters. A large segment of the planet's population is onto Trump and his con. His devoted dupes, marks and misguided zealots will stick with him to the bitter end, which I hope and sense is fast approaching.
31
Trump should put the crack team that 'investigated' Brett Kavanaugh on the case. Just tell them what to find and be done with it. But don't forget to leave a tip jar outside the Oval Office when MBS comes calling again.
15
We didn’t care when two planes full or Saudi Arabians blew up the World Trade Center in Manhattan. Why would we care that they killed one of their own in Turkey? We vote ourselves into this insanity every chance we get.
33
The 911 hijackers were Egyptian, actually. And the bin Laden family is not Saudi. They come from Yemen. Bin Laden was a Yemenite who hated the Saudi government for what they did to Yemen.
The 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Lebanon. Osama Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia.
2
He was "mistakenly killed" after all the assassination crew came in with saws. Oh that was a mistake. We were only going to saw off one finger,
20
@CBlake After the interrogation, he was told to take a shower, during which he slipped on a piece of soap and hit his head. Happens all the time!
Khashoggi's murder was a Mafia-style hit taken from the Saudi version of the Trump/Putin playbook. Forget "Foreign Policy." It's just the way the Mob does business.
22
No justice, no peace.
14
Whatever the story line, Trump is onboard with his Saudi owner.
20
How despicable that an American president is supplying a potential murderer with a cover story. It's an absolutely ridiculous story, but his lies and denials at the behest of autocrats always manage to betray any sense of decency. How did these 'rogue killers' get in the Saudi Consulate?
18
It's like I keep saying -- after Trump, who would trust a Republican to prosecute criminals? Trump has shifted the entire party to the defense table. They are useless as criminal prosecutors now.
“Soz guys, we were just innocently going to seize and kidnap a journo in an embassy within another sovereign nation - who happens to be a friend and ally btw - oh, and covertly spirit him out of the country on a quick flight to Riyadh before anyone could be alerted so we could probably put him in trial for treason and/or “corruption”. But then he went and died on us accidentally. Okay you got your way, we admit it. Happy? Are we cool now? Guys? Hello?”
8
This was a disgusting act was it not? He was an American resident. The leader of Saudi Arabia appears to be something of a butcher. How can the US have relations with this person?
11
Is Trump going to track down the "rogue killers" in the same determined manner he tracked down that "fake" birth certificate... oops!
15
Why the passive headline "was killed."? Better headline would read, "Saudis Admit They Murdered Khashoggi."
16
The Saudis agree to a joint investigation then international news agencies film the Saudis bringing in cleaning crews using industrial materials in the hours leading up to the joint inspection. That is followed by more refusals to let Turkish forensic experts enter, though the Saudis ultimately relented.
It is believable that King Salman did not know of the operation at the time. It is not believable that neither King Salman nor MBS authorized it or know what happened today as Trump went forth saying they have just issued fresh denials.
The US exports more than seven times as much oil as we import from Saudi. Most of the weapons orders, still not finalized, are spare parts for US weapons systems. Neither China nor Russia produce them and without them Saudi's air force would soon be grounded.
Trump should be involving our intelligence agencies in uncovering the truth instead of spinning conspiracy theories like rogue murderers infiltrating Saudi diplomatic facilities and flying around the globe on Saudi aircraft. When can we get back to adult leadership in the Whitehouse?
20
But you don't want the Trump foundation business efforts to be adversely affected, do you. It's a perk of being president You get
the gelt off line though he could just wait like Obama to give $300,000 speeches to Wall Street firms till after his term in office. But then again he probably has bills to pay.
W
why does it take so long for IRS to do tax audit?
This callow, and hollow, president is also now an apologist. A man with no moral compass, and no real experience in dealing confronting questionable behavior (especially his own), once again shows why he is unprepared and utterly unfit for the job’s heavy responsibilities.
The political superstorm of greed and apathy would bring tears to our great patriotic leaders who would be stunned by all our generation has squandered.
17
Trump’s likely view: Since Khashoggi was another “enemy of the people,” killing him was an admirable deed Trump wishes he could emulate.
9
Someone with ties to Saudi Intelligence will plead out to this. With Islamic grace and mercy they shall be sentenced to life with no chance of parole.
They die within six months in a deluxe cancer wing.
Face saved, problem solved.
Families very well provided for.
2
"But, the person said, the Saudi intelligence official went too far in eagerly seeking to prove himself in secretive operations, then sought to cover up the botched job."
Of course, that's why they had guy with a bone saw with them.
Remind me again, is OJ still looking for the real killer?
11
Bone saws are an integral part of all basic interrogations - right??
9
The pattern seems to be: Bad men, do very bad things, then Trump supports them in their denials despite it being intuitively obvious they are liars. And so the world turns for the billionaire ruling class. Wonder if we will vote for more of this charade in the midterms?
12
Compared to arms and oil, what are lives and truth worth?
11
Trump's quid pro quo regarding the Saudi regime is appalling. He seems very reluctant to acknowledge or act on an assassination of a journalist (an American Permanent Resident, no less) that had to have been ordered by the Saudi regime.
Why? Because he thinks US arms sales to what is now a rogue regime (which he says are worth $110 Billion - an absurd lie) are more valuable than the reputation of the US government and the threat the Saudi crown prince could pose to the Middle East.
How would the Republicans - and Trump himself - have reacted if this vile hit job had occurred during the Obama administration, and the president had equivocated and dissembled as Trump is now doing? They would have screamed about the spinelessness and incompetence of the Kenyan Socialist/Commie/Liberal usurper. Heads would have exploded on Fox News.
16
No wonder Trump likes the Saudis. KIng Salman took the Donald's cue and came up with an implausible, "rogue killers" story line, which Trump tossed to them like a softball. That was clearly an opportunity Salman didn't want to pass up.
5
Where is the (whole) body? Let's have the Turks conduct an autopsy. Can't have a reimagined murder or crime scene investigation without a body. Maybe Trump and Kavanaugh and the Saudis can, but the rest of the world won't buy it.
3
Trump wants to normalize the killing of journalists the way he normalized
—lying
—nepotism
—and enriching himself while in office.
As someone who survived the Marcos dictatorship, this is part of Trump’s trajectory to full dictatorship after consolidating the Congress via McConnell and the Judiciary via Kavanaugh.
Killing journalists so dictators can plunder away are one of the two pillars that they use to stay in power. The other is dispensing money to cronies and sycophants so no one stabs them in the back.
With Trump, it won’t belong before the “fake news” journalists are dead and disappeared. His spouting lies to normalize killing of journalists is just the beginning. It will get worse. And even worse. Remember, the Marcos dictatorship lasted 21 years and resulted to untold number of killed journalists. And mind-blowing plunder (10 Billion dollars, and that’s only the number that the Swiss Banks were forced to reveal.)
15
The fact that the Saudi's did this to an American resident working for a big US newspaper and figured it would blow over, or just didn't care what the reaction would be, is what is truly mind-blowing. The question is what or who allowed them to think they could get away with it?
305
@angel98:
Your question, "What or who allowed them to think they can get away with it?" is specious at best.
The simple, unvarying fact that the ruling monarch of Saudi Arabia has de facto absolute power or his country and citizenry. Furthermore the Saudis have never been known to have thick skin; they brook no dissent let alone open criticism . . . cross them and pay with with extreme jail sentences, if not death.
Ergo, you need look no further the the Prince to find the answer to your curious question.
2
@angel98 The question is what or who allowed them to think they could get away with it?
One theory is Donald Trump.
The Donald is laboring to destabilize the world economy by inciting economic war through blocking free trade. Draining capital for investments is the only hope left to slow down the rapid expansion of renewable energy around the world. It is a futile attempt to rescue from oblivion, his beloved disease causing coal and other dirty fossil fuels.
Setting up Saudi Arabia to commit this gruesome murder is a pretty good way to cause reactions against this heinous crime that may cause huge disruption in the distribution of oil that will ripple through the economy.
However Trump will fail bigly to stop renewable energy as he has failed at everything else he has attempted.
He has an amazing record of failure despite all the cheating and criminal tax evasion: the Trump casinos, the Trump university, the Trump hotel in Panama, and his failing Trump golf course in Scotland. Trump's only saving grace is his incompetence and his very low IQ.
They will get away with it. Money rules. It's our new god.
3
If you really believe a "rogue" group inside Saudi did this, without the direct knowledge of their leadership, then I have some swampland, um, I mean waterfront, to sell you. Cheaply. They knew he was coming to the consulate, they arrived, he never left. The Turks have audio (at the very least) probably because the consulate is bugged. Its a feudal state and nothing happens without the direction of the leadership. NOTHING. What will Trump do about it? The same thing, NOTHING. His friends in the armaments industry have too much to lose for him to do anything at all. So, they will plant this bogus story about rogues, and pretend that the Saudi prince--he who has no shame and brooks no dissent--is as innocent as a sand dune. Its complicity in Murder to do nothing. But, hey, what's new...he seems OK with white supremacists killing someone in South Carolina, after all.
10
How’s possibly that the agents were able to freely go inside the embassy and kill the reporter? How’s possibly that they were able (Mossad style) to go in-and-out of a foreign country? And no control? We know already who Trump will be supporting, money talks and talks loudly.
4
The "Rogue Killers" explanation should have been contracted to the players on Saturday Night Live to release. They would have been more believable than the lackey of the Saudis, President Trump.
6
Those four knights who murdered Thomas à Becket in Canterbury were rogue killers. All Henry II said was "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?" It was hardly his fault that they completely misunderstood his musings about his longtime friend.
5
Wonder if Trump said rogue and the Saudi's carried it on or they told him to say it
4
The moat interesting political event of the day is just how fast Trump’s Partners of the Glowing Orb yanked the rug out from under the whole “coulda been a whale in a basement done did this,” theory.
Beyond the greed, beyond the crookery, beyond the narcissism, beyind the total disinterest in America or the flimsiest moral structures, it just may be that we’ll end up paying the most through the nose for Trump’s—and his worshippers’—gullibility.
7
After glancing at some of the reader's comments, I must conclude that all are off the mark. Tomorrow, President Donald Trump will reveal the true details on Fox News: "Crooked" Hillary Clinton ordered the hit.
9
King: ''Those weren't the killers I sent, those were Rogue Killers!''
A middle school vice-principal would never swallow this changing tale, but Trump....
7
A round up of world “leaders” that Trump considers as his inspiration:
1–Putin
2–Kim
3–Endrogan
4–Duterte
5–MBS
In the works are the soon-to-be dictators of Brazil, Bavaria, Hungary.
A round of of world leaders Trump consider as the enemy:
1–Merkel
2–Trudeau
3–Macron
4–Nieto
5–Xi (depending on how Trump’s boss Putin wants to spin the day’s news)
9
Saudi Arabia must produce the body for examination.
9
This is why nobody believes Trump when he threatens them. It’s a joke. Oh well the king said they didn’t do it, Kim says I didn’t do it, Putin said we didn’t do it. Case closed. Easy Peasie! Now where are all the arms we are selling them. Ethics and morality do not abound in this administration. He takes the words of murdering thugs. But his own people, not so much.
9
“It seems the journalist slipped and fell on my knife. Fortunately I just happen to have a bone saw.”
Somehow I am just not buying it.
12
@Duncan Newberry
I used to think that Americans, no matter their education, had good old fashioned common sense. And that they hated a liar and would balk at anyone trying to pull their wool over their eyes.
What happened to that America?
3
At the rate Trump is going with his utter lack of morality, he’ll soon be literally making excuses for totalitarian regimes which engage in torture, murder and dismemberment of American journalists.
Oh. Hold on a second...
13
"a dismemberment that went terribly wrong"
17
The first lie didn't work. Let's retrench and try a different lie.
15
“Governments lie.”
I. F. Stone
3
Two weeks and this is the best excuse they can come up with? Can you smell it? That is the smell of a cover up/whitewash in progress. It may smell like a pig sty but at least Pompeo has experience putting lipstick on pigs.
13
What does "an interrogation gone wrong" mean.
The "interrogation" must have been rather severe to have caused Khashoggi to die.
It looks like Saudi Arabia is desperately trying to find a believable cover story for a vicious murder.
They will not find one.
What will Trump do.
Probably say "so what our arms sales to Saudi Arabia are more important that this person's life"
12
The Saudi's said they knew nothing about the killing...just like Putin said he knew nothing about the hacking. And our gullible President, who cheated Americans by not paying taxes he should have owed, and his son-in-law who also cheated Americans by not paying taxes he should have owed, just swallow the lies. It was a rogue actor who happened to arrive on a chartered flight from Riyadh with a bone saw in hand, and departed on another charter flight a few hours later with said bone saw in hand. Sure.
The world is being run by absolute crooks. Law and Order my foot.
7
Most simply put, Trump insults America with such comments.
6
I’m sure Pompeo and Mnuchin feel very safe visiting Saudi Arabia, knowing POTUS supports the Saudi King’s position.
4
In the clouded area where nations ply their subterfuges it will always be impossible to have a clear, unvarnished narrative. What has to be done is to seek out the most probable story and to assume that the most likely evildoer did this ---unless the likely suspect can show that good reasons exist not to blame them or him.
In this case Trump is not blaming the most likely suspect; he has too many profitable ties to the party most likely responsible. So he is willing to mouth acceptance of the least probable explanation. The odds are that MBS ordered the execution and it was not an accident incurred by rogue elements. One may also question whether the plan to kidnap Khashoggi from the consulate is tolerable and acceptable ; does the Republican war against the press consider such horrendous acts matters of little importance.
9
I feel this tricky, it did not haPpen in USA and he was not American. But he was a resident and he work for us paper. He was a human being and a child of God. He deserve more respect for his body and remains. I am glad it above my paid grade. May he Rest In Peace with God.
6
Good for you. you are dead right.
And, It’s good for guys like me to have our noses rubbed in the fact that clever English is never as good as honesty and getting it right.
Seriously, not even kidding, best comment here.
Since its founding in 1932, Saudi Arabia had been ruled by an absolute monarch. The people may have 21st century technology but the government is as modern as that of Louis XVI.
11
Money makes the world go ‘round, so the song says.
It would appear that Turkey, the U.S. and Saudi Arabia have come up with a cover story that conforms with the broad outline of what has been alleged without acknowledging anyone was murdered and disposed to destroy any chances of a contradictory narrative. Saudi Arabia buys arms from the U.S. and Turkey takes on a debt to Saudi Arabia. The U.S. President gets to claim that nothing much happened that does not happen all the time in that region. End of crisis.
Except that the Saudi Prince is not going to stop committing atrocities with other countries willingly overlooking them. Welcome to Trump’s America First Doctrine, the doctrine of the U.S. standing by like a stunned duck while the world sinks into a nasty and dangerous place where the least scrupulous have carte blanche. What will Trump do when states start preying on multinationals and all we’ve got is military force with which to respond?
8
Let's hope Trump doesn't hire these rogue people for jobs in US.
1
Trump's reaction doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I feel confident that if he could, he would cause the disappearance of many a responsible journalist.
12
Same MO that Trump has with Kim Jung Un and Putin...see the pattern? Nothing new: repeat, repeat, and repeat yet again to become the "accepted" story (of deception and lies). This is about MBS's image and big-contract weapon sales. Doesn't matter how it's spun, this is good for Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon and BAE Systems--read the patent numbers on the bombs dropping into Yemen. Gil Scott-Heron: "The problem with peace is you can't make no money from it."
8
What kind of interrogation involves a bone saw without "going wrong?"
17
15 people to interrogate 1 man? A bone saw? Makes total sense to me why an interrogation might go wrong.
38
You're mistaken that it was an interrogation.
2
The story that it was somehow an interrogation gone wrong carried out by some rogue players goes way beyond any measure of credibility. But let's suspend reality for a moment and assume that it is true. You still have a case where a dissident journalist was deliberately seized threatened and intimidated within the confines of the Saudi Consulate. Remember that this dissident journalist was employed in the United States and had permanent resident status. Freedom of the press is a fundamental American right. It is a founding principle of our country. This is a violation which requires the most serious consequences for the Saudis.
29
Saudi citizens were responsible for the 9/11 attacks on our country. Saudi citizens killed a journalist in the Saudi consulate in Turkey. The Saudi's are committing genocide in Yemen with US weapons.
Enough is enough with this travesty of "our friends the Saudi's". This has gone on far too long.
Saudi Arabia is the enemy. Period.
37
So, “rogue killers” with two aircraft available, knew exactly when a Post columnist was due at the Saudi embassy Turkey, and were admitted by the King’s ambassador and his guards, allowed to carry out a murder and remove the evidence in diplomatic bags.
Meanwhile, the Embassy’s well-armed guards in their fortress building were so terrified that they not only admitted these guys, but stood down as they did their job.
Several days later, the Saudis agreed Turkish investigators would be allowed in - for they were, of course, so terrified that they would not remove any evidence of the murder.
Mr. Trump, have you such little respect for the people that you think we’re going to buy that whopper?
And do we really want to rearm Saudi Arabia - the ol’ Military Industrial Complex needs money so badly that we want this murderous king armed with our best?
Or is this just another leader you look up to? I hope Bob Woodward and the NYT tax team have been assigned armed guards.
Five dismembered Pinocchios for the Donald for this one!
19
Mr. Khashoggi had to have been lured into that consulate on a pretty good pretext beside doing some legal paperwork for his coming marriage. Maybe he was carrying a message from his friend the dictator Erdogan? Very odd this whole, sad affair..
4
Which of these Trusty Leaders should we believe? Trump? Erdogan? MBS? I wouldn’t trust any of them to walk my dog. It seems that Turkey is the only party that stands to benefit from this tragedy.
9
Wouldn't want to jeopardize arms sales that might hinder the slaughter in Yemen.
18
How galling to watch that 60 Minutes interview and watch this clearly disturbed man explain absolutely nothing and getting away with it : because that is what it has come to. I think the day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute mendacity mouthed by Donald Trump has beaten down a large majority of the American people into a benign stupor. There is a method to his madness and he is counting on it working once again with Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance and likely brutal death. Trump's insidious game plan to confuse and deflect has been going on for so long that it has numbed the average citizen into a state of helplessness. His base, whatever that percentage of it remains fired up by this disgusting behavior, I imagine sleep well enough at night. For the rest of us, it's chronic insomnia.
54
We are sick of this administration. We will be voting.
7
The disgusting aspect of this murder is the vision of the U.S. under Donald Trump getting involved in the investigation. Donald Trump makes an effort to befriend dictators and murderers that rather than being made to be seen as acceptable as world leaders should be brought to trial for their crimes in a world court.
Instead they are normalized in their activities by America. It's a shameful and degrading fact.
This country is no longer "the leader of the free world". I don't know what it's to be called at this point, but it's being lead down a very dark path.
19
Nothing new that the USA supports and befriends Dictators and murderers...
2
I am living in a country where the leaders say the press is the enemy of the people, and the opposition is evil. A shifting truth, buoyed by alternative facts, is the norm. Billionaires get rich selling oil. Glittering skyscrapers built by our head of state feed his insatiable ego.
Yes, I am an American and Trump is the commander in chief. And no, our country is not a normal democracy. Vote him out!!!
28
“Rogue Killers” abound in in this abysmal side show know as the Trump Presidency.
WhAt other characters inhibit Trump’s mind as this bizarre circus continues to further degrade our country?
Halloween has come early for Trump!
4
The fact that there was an interrogation, if indeed there was one, is irrelevant. The man was murdered by the Saudis, period. Either the interrogation or the murder, or both, were certainly authorized by MBS. This is sickening.
14
Money, money, money, MONEY! The Apprentice theme song says it all.
11
The Saudi-trump story about "rogue killers" is a macabre version of The Dog Ate My Homework.
19
Well, I guess "interrogation gone wrong" is the new euphemism for the state-sanctioned murder of a journalist.
I am sure that Trump is taking notes so that when he starts ordering goons to kill journalists inside government buildings, he can shrug and call it "interrogation gone wrong."
17
This was not some rogue operation on the part of the Saudis--there were too many Saudi agents involved for this to have merely been an effort to snag Khashoggi, drug him, then transport home to imprison him there, as they have done with others (royals). And the Saudi team would not have included that forensics specialist with the bone saw.
Had they drugged him to fly him back to Saudi Arabia, the Saudi agents would have faced being videoed carrying his drugged body (by Turkish cameras outside the consulate). They had a week or several days lead time to figure out how to face the problem of detection--Khashoggi had been told at the consulate to "come back next week" to get his certification of divorce.
So they decided to torture him (while recording it?), kill him, and cut up his body ostensibly to transport it out of the consulate in pieces, avoiding detection. The Saudi team could not have chosen to execute that plan in an authoritarian state without Muhammad bin Salman's approval.
The plainest interpretation: the plan for Khashoggi's torture, death, and dismemberment was made in advance--with lead time--and approved at the highest level because in the strongly authoritarian environment that Saudi Arabia has become, you can be "disappeared" for acting without prior approval; once cornered, they cooked up this "rogue element" narrative for cover for MbS.
Just a few days ago, the Saudis claimed to be looking for Khashoggi themselves. And now "rogue elements"?
27
It's a shame that Trump has so alienated the world leaders that he is unable to lead our nation in a manner that bring credibility to our government and way of life. Instead he brings nothing but disdain and is left flailing in the wind when important international events require real leadership. We cannot look to our government to provide the leadership we need. We must watch world leaders to learn the future of our nation. The Republican Party has sunk so low in credibility that it is no longer able to lead.
I am ready for a change in leadership and it needs to be by a party and people who do not sell their vote and themselves for a lousy dollar, or a fancy air plane ride, or a big donation to their campaign coffers.
20
Remember back in eighth grade civics class when we studied the U.S. Constitution? One topic was the duties of the president. Now Mr. Trump has added a new duty, one the founders didn't foresee - P. R. flack for murderous dictators in their time of need.
Just when you think we can't sink any lower. Election day in 2020 is 750 days away; can we somehow survive until then?
23
Please don't admit the guy was killed until after Trump swears it was a hit man from the North Pole who did it. A guy wearing a red suit with bells hanging from his waist.
7
A blatant cover-up . . .
14
I don't know who's the bigger liar. The Saudi prince telling the lie or Trump repeating it!
35
I don't know about you guys, but I always carry a bone saw in my luggage every time I fly--even on those occasions when I'm not planning to dismember somebody.
Yeah, right.
The deployment of the anatomist and the bone saw before the meeting seems incontrovertible evidence of premeditation.
Please, let us not allow Trump or our government to be complicit in the coverup.
48
Jackie Tar: I agree . . . but how do we go about not letting him? He got away with it with Putin.
3
Nothing like a good laugh in these dark days.
1
Let's not be shocked by Trump's "rogue killer" trial balloon. The U.S. has been supporting and covering up the Saudis' human right abuses and dark age behaviors since the G.H.W. Bush's administration. Even Obama supported the Saudis' murderous war in Yemen by providing intelligence and logistical support in addition to billions of military sales. The U.S. is stained and morally compromised by association. It's time for concerned Americans to express their revulsion and outrage at the Saudis' barbaric behavior by demanding Congress to enact economic sanction. If the U.S. does nothing to punish the Saudis, then we should forever shut up about moralizing others on the value and respect for human rights.
36
This is perhaps the most disappointed I've been with our President, and I've been willing to tolerate quite a bit so far. We built our oil fields out (exposing us to environmental risk) and grown a slew of high-technology alternatives, including very promising tech from the likes of Tesla. Our country should be able to push back harder at this point, and it's frankly disturbing that Trump was enlisted in dressed-up Saudi PR.
18
The problem with this article is it ignores geopolitical considerations. Iran has been an expanding power in the Middle East for quite a while; their influence has grown with the Iran nuclear agreement, and they appear to be on the winning side in wars in both Iraq and Syria. More than any other country in the region, Iran's foreign policy is clearly guided by a dangerous religious philosophy, as can be seen by their military assistance of Hamas and attempts to build nuclear weapons (neither of which Saudi Arabia has ever done), both of which have actually been counterproductive to their interests. The Trump administration has been making the correct, albeit difficult, calculation in providing military support for Saudi Arabia (including in Yemen) to counter this trend and prevent the long-term threat Iran poses to regional stability. The killing of Khashoggi is appalling, but we need to tread carefully, lest we cause more undue loss-of-life in the long-term. I honestly don't know where we go from here.
1
@Derek...Hello. Do you understand the difference between Sunni (Saudi Arabia) and Shia (Iran). 15 of the 19 the terrorists of 9/11 were Saudi (Sunni). Osama Bin Laden was Saudi. Al Qaeda was Sunni funded by Saudi Arabia. Isis was Sunni. The Taliban is Sunni. All of the terrorist attacks carried out in the U.S. by Muslim extremists were Sunni. Iran is Shia. The Shia have never been involved in any of the great number of suicide bombings. Ok, Iran and the Shia may not be warm and friendly, but when it comes to an understanding of Islamic terrorism you and Trump are way out of line.
10
@W.A. Spitzer
Suggesting that I don't know very basic things like who is Sunni and who is Shia is not a very constructive way to approach disagreements. My opinion is shared by many national security experts who know more about this than either of us, and, for the record, 10 Democratic Senators who voted to continue US support for Saudi operations in Yemen. I am mostly focused on power dynamics (rising vs. existing powers) and I did not say Shia Muslims were inherently, or even typically, more radical than Sunni Muslims (if anything, I'd lean the other way, but it's too broad of a generalization to be useful). I think the evidence points towards Saudi Arabia using religion, and extremist Sunni groups they have supported, as a tool to gain power, whereas Iran's foreign policy is guided by religion, and the latter is clearly more dangerous. On top of that, and perhaps more importantly, Iran is gaining in power relative to Saudi Arabia, and traditional "realist" foreign policy theory holds that we should favor existing powers over rising powers to maintain stability.
@W.A. Spitzer
Suggesting that I don't know very basic things like who is Sunni and who is Shia is not a very constructive way to approach disagreements. My opinion is shared by many national security experts who know more about this than either of us, and, for the record, 10 Democratic Senators who voted to continue US support for Saudi operations in Yemen. I am mostly focused on power dynamics (rising vs. existing powers) and I did not say Shia Muslims were inherently, or even typically, more radical than Sunni Muslims (if anything, I'd lean the other way, but it's too broad of a generalization to be useful). I think the evidence points towards Saudi Arabia using religion, and extremist Sunni groups they have supported, as a tool to gain power, whereas Iran's foreign policy is guided by religion, and the latter is clearly more dangerous. On top of that, and perhaps more importantly, Iran is gaining in power relative to Saudi Arabia, and traditional "realist" foreign policy theory holds that we should favor existing powers over rising powers to maintain stability. Will there need to be a severe response? Absolutely there will be, but that still doesn't leave any answers for our future policy in the Middle East.
In the Dark Ages, a man's life could be bought for a few pieces of copper. We are living in the Dark Ages.
20
I have never commented on anything before, but as a mother I am disgusted and horrified that a heinous murder is being treated as somehow politically justified . I would like to see the facts laid out without political justification mentioned in the same sentence. A man and resident of Washington, DC where I grew up died here.
24
As in so many other things about this "president", SA has an "audience of one". Convince him it would be advantageous to HIS bottom line than any detriment or advantage to America is just a footnote.
8
Golly. What if Salman had blamed Putin? And Putin issued his own powerful denial? Too much cognitive dissonance for the POTUS.
6
MBS could have told our President that Santa Claus and rogue elves committed this murder and, sadly, he would have believed him.
13
“Shifting Story.” No wonder Trump likes the Saudi rulers.
14
Trump knows a few things about being rogue.
10
Rogue killers entered the consulate with no ID check or record? Please. 65% of us are not fools.
24
Any president with a shred of dignity would say nothing until the facts are clear; the key word here is 'dignity'. Instead we get: 'Coulda been this ... or that' ... Make no mistake, this is not about how many supersonic bombers the Saudis buy but how many overpriced rooms they rent in Trumps gaudy gold PLATED hotels.
24
Interrogation gone bad? OK. Return the body, please.
25
One lie always leads to another lie. This is as true for Saudia Arabia as it is for the occupant of the White House.
20
Hmmm... Rogue assassins in Turkey at the Saudi consulate.
Before that it was a rogue attacker against Dr Christine Blasey Ford.
What next? Rogue Russians interfering with the 2016 election?
Do we see a pattern developing here?
22
What happens in 2024 when this man doesn't want to step down?
11
@Nick Send him to the Saudi consulate in Turkey?
4
It sure sounds like, with the "rouge killers" remark, Trump is trying to help out an old friend by giving him a plausible lie. Probably feels sorry for the guy, like, "Can't he figure out how to lie on his own?"
9
" ... an autopsy specialist carrying a bone saw was among 15 Saudi operatives who flew in and out of Istanbul the day Mr. Khashoggi disappeared." An interrogation gone wrong? Sounds like it went exactly as the Saudi Prince intended.
47
@Steve Kennedy
Possibly. Also possible they underestimated what intelligence would find out.
3
Once again we hear about rogue Saudis who were killers. Last time there were over 3,000 Americans dead, now just one. Last time
the money trail led to top Saudis but it was allegedly a rogue Ben Laden operation. This time we have allegedly a rogue consulate and interrogators.
Amazing how this keeps happening whenever we have a President who has deep financial ties to the holy kingdom along with close family members.
I remember hearing how George W got his oil business bailed out by Saudis and daddy was business partners with Ben Laden's brother. Now we got a president with ongoing business toes to the kingdom, and he and his "special envoy", Kushner, both got bailed out from personal bankruptcy by Saudi financiers.
The only thing rogue in this scandal is our president.
25
"The new explanation, whatever its truth, seemed intended to ease the political crisis that Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance has created for Saudi Arabia."
What? So they think it is now OK that we KNOW they murdered him rather than we just speculated it.
12
Is there any surprise that Trump is floating the “rogue killers” idea at the behest of King Salman?
They want to see how it plays.
12
I see how Trump is, basically, trying to scare everybody to death and we all seem to be helpless. Yes, we can and will vote but how much is his base base (yes, base base is what I mean) thinking? Critical thinking does not seem to be their forte. Yes, I'm afraid. Of Fascism. Of him ALWAYS getting things his way. (See today's decision by a judge to just let it slide regarding Stormy Daniel's case). It just feels unfair.....all that he gets by with. He's a businessman. He does business with the world and how close is he to aTrump Tower in North Korea, making all kinds of promises? This is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? Making business deals on or dime.
15
Saudi leaders must be shown at least the same level of respect as Americas other good friends, the Russian and North Korean leaders. If they officially deny something bad happened, then of course it did not happen. Why would ANY government official (except for an elected U.S. Democrat or someone appointed by a U.S. Democrat, of course) ever have a reason not to speak the absolute truth?
5
Trump's "who knows?" has become an automatic way to shun responsibility. Also, he is lying whenever he begins a sentence, "People are saying...". He is an autocrat.
19
Why is the President of the United States covering for Saudi Arabia? Each day brings a new low. I am fighting depression.
27
Don’t be surprised if he has a piece of this pie. Oh no we don’t want to cancel Jared’s business deal. No , Jared needs this deal, not to pay taxes on too. We , the family needs this. The other businesses are backing out. Why isn’t this country? Shameful GOP Trump move.
3
US Intelligence agencies undoubtedly know exactly what happened. Maybe the truth will come out eventually...
11
US administration has long abandoned the moral high ground and trying to be the champion of human rights. This will continue to embolden violence and mass slaughter around the world.
Will the US realize there is a real cost to pay for abandoning human rights?
9
Wow, a quick phone call between trump and the Saudi prince and all is well on its way to a conclusion--rogue killers or 'who knows' did it.
This emerging story has the stench of 'collusion.' The two will agree that some rogues it did and then they can proceed with lots of great deals. The fact that a man has died seemingly comes in a poor second to the interests of these two.
16
@say what
It was a call to the Prince’s dad, old Salman. I can imagine the conversation, the dotard talking to the demented, hysterical laughter stage left from the translators
2
Since Putin gets a free pass from Trump on such issues, the Saudis may have tested the waters here.
There is certainly more behind the curtain.
11
Where’s the transcript of what Trump allegedly said to the Crown Prince? Trump is failing this his first real test as a leader on the international stage.
9
@Joel He failed the first test a long time ago. This is only another confirmation of what we already knew.
7
Soon they will tell us that he was only half killed.
11
Trump only cares about making money doing things like selling overpriced apartments to Saudis and Russian billionaires so they can launder their money. He doesn't care about people like Khashoggi and he doesn't care about me or you.
23
I don’t believe anything Donald Trump says or tweets. Anyone who does believe him prefers lies over truth.
21
The issue here is not whether the Saudis murdered that man. The issue is whether to start a huge fight with them, with the result being a massive increase in the price of oil because OPEC will clearly stand with the Saudis on this. Trump lies in order to benefit from the alternative reality he wants people to believe. In most cases its to benefit his personal agenda. However in this case its for the benefit of America and the world's economy.
2
@Michael Stavsen
The US only imports about 8% of its oil from the Gulf. They need to call the Saudi’s bluff. Saudi military systems are totally supplied by the west. Saudi cannot simply switch suppliers and still have a functioning system. Although, that might not be a bad thing if one thinks about it.
3
This is Neville Chamberlain logic.
2
Really, you don’t think he wants to play the hero? Since when has he done a thing with out taking biggly credit. If they are not made to pay for such atrocities (Hitler) now, when, by who? You do business with thugs, murderers. When they come for you, should we just go along to save change on gas prices? Good to know people have selective blindness.
2
I think the Saudis killed Mr. Khashoggi. We will likely never know the exact circumstances. This was a dissident Saudi citizen who went into the country’s embassy in Turkey to arrange for a marriage license. Knowing how the Saudis feel about him, why would he have done that? Did he expect them to welcome him with open arms and then let him go? It doesn’t make sense. It is awful that they killed him but we have to stay off our moral high horse in this. Remember Abu Graib, waterboarding, Gitmo, and more. We’re not exactly pure.
1
This morning in a conversation with my partner, I speculated that Trump will probably find a way to blame someone other than MBS for Khashoggi's disappearance or death, then will claim he can't punish Saudi Arabia (a country Trump wants to make "deals" with) without "proof" that MBS (great guy) was in on it.
The words were barely out of my mouth before the NYT story about "Rogue Killers" crossed our radar. I've come to expect this. Trump will spin away the sins of his friends and whip into a "disgrace" any action taken by his perceived enemies.
Next speculation: the Washington Post will be particularly demonized (and secondarily other news organizations (NYT)) for spreading "unproven" accusations that hurt MBS (great guy).
The things I've read about that people know for sure certainly provide compelling circumstantial evidence of MBS involvement, even if not conclusive proof (although any "proof" that a reasonable person might accept can be labeled as "fake" if it makes Trump or his friend look bad).
We're learning.
22
Saudi Arabia will offer up a sacrificial lamb(s), a few politicians won't buy it and will try to get to the truth but the heard won't want to mess with the oil supply or the economy so any investigations will go nowhere. The Saudi's know just like 9/11 that we will sell our soul again for the right price, and with the current administration, the fallout from any minor admissions have as much attention as a baseball player explaining why he took steroids (about 3 days worth of discussion on FOX).
8
@Kevin
With any luck, and following a great palace tradition, that lamb might well be MBS. There are a lot of spare princes in that family.
2
It's only a matter of time before the FBI and DOJ is compromised and "Rogue Killers" are running amok in the United States of American. If anyone wondered how it's possible Germans let Hitler come to power, we are seeing it in real time, one lie at a time.
36
The Congress needs to invoke the Magnitsky Act right away. MBS should not be permitted to enter this country again. We also should cease any arms negotiations with Saudi Arabia. It is good to see that powerful business executives are cancelling their plans to attend the Saudi economic conference next. But they should more. They should cancel lucrative deals they've made with the Saudi government. Robert Mueller should investigate the financial ties that Jared Kushner has with the Saudis
35
The moment Sarah Huckabee Sanders ascends the podium at the next press briefing to explain away the grisly assassination of a fellow journalist, it would behoove the press corps to turn their backs on her collectively in a gesture of outrage and disdain. If not now, when?
74
So, it would have been OK to abduct him?
12
Trump is channeling OJ Simpson (recall pledge to find Nicole Brown Simpson's 'real killer(s)'?)
13
Even Rahm Emanuel couldn't come up with a better piece of p.r. than "rogue killers". Reminds me of Chris Rock's the "media" robbed me at the ATM...
With enough money even you can kill anyone with the "rogue killers"... Now that's Monty Python material for sure.
8
Gosh, those bad, bad rogue agents!
Someone forgot to tell the 15 killers, including a forensic expert with a chain saw that one of the side effects of "interrogation" (i.e. torture) is death.
Knowing that their plan went wrong (Ha, Ha,) makes it all ok. Whew!
Pompeo's mission was probably meant to co-ordinate a spin that would smooth the waters.
No penalties from the WH. Too much present and future personal business would be jeopardized.
How dumb does our "president" think we are?
VERY!!!!!!
20
The last two words of this’s article are “ prince’s blacklist .” Wondering who else is on that list .
10
Facism comes
on little cat feet.
It sits looking
over this country
on fat silent haunches
It does not move on.
(Apologies to Mr. Frost)
19
"Rogue Killers". My guess is that these "Killers" are probably in the same gang as the "400-pound hacker" that hacked the DNC.
14
The escape for Trump and Erdogan's fabrications.
3
Trump accepts denials so easily, he’ll never find out who wrote that op-ed.
7
Wouldn’t “Rogue Killers” have an easier time killing him anywhere else in Turkey other than infiltrating the Saudi embassy there?
12
the man knows no limits in his race to the bottom.
God help us all.
19
To continue John Oliver's riff from yesterday, I don't think you bring a bone saw to an interrogation and expect it to NOT go wrong.
37
This is humiliating. A tin-pot country House of Saud is now on the driver’s seat dictating America and her foreign policy. What have we become? For mere $110 B (most of it may not even exist except in thin air), we have sold America, WH, and a silent Congress. Now, by choice, USA owns this event along with its implications. How more sordid could it be! Are we totally numb to understand its terrible world-wide implication?
I wonder how long the Bible-belt remain in a state of inebriation after this. Have they ever been conscientious about Christ and his Beatitudes? Or, perhaps, Christ does not matter anymore, lying does not matter anymore, so long as we can continue with our tricks. Heaven help us!
23
Rogue Killers, can only mean Jason Bourne. With all the practice the Saudis have at chopping off body parts, sending in a bone saw specialist seems a little unnecessary. Mueller’s foot dragging is certainly making us have to leave our imaginations to their own designs filling the void of any hard evidence against Trump.
8
REGIME CHANGE NOW.
Trillions of dollars spent on our military, let's put it to good use: Invade and annex. Make Saudi Arabia a new U.S. territory, along the lines of Guam.
9
Why does Trump's conversation with bin Salman about "whodunnit" remind me of his conversation with Putin about Russian interference in US elections?
19
between this and the 60 Minutes interview on Sunday, El Presidente Trump really knows how to bury the facts. we sure got what we deserved for electing this moldable politician. its always been and always will be about the money.
20
If the Saudis CONFESS to authorizing the interrogation and then acknowledge that one of their own with or without permission killed this man what else do we need? It doesn't matter one wit that they didn't authorize the end result. What matters is that they authorized an interrogation that resulted in his death. Under our laws this would still be a crime!
17
Maybe it was a 400 pound man sitting in his mother's basement!!
15
Another example where our President show zero moral or ethical backbone! The man is an embarrassment to the word embarrassment!
The excuses by the Saudi's are the equivalent to"The dog ate my homework" and they go without challenge by Trump.
Shameful!!!!
16
One can draw a conclusion, that this is another act of collusion..
9
The Saudis discussed what we would do.
They reckoned that since Trump loves autocrats and hates the press, they could handle any complaints. We’ll see if they were right or wrong.
12
How Henry II of the Prince. He's 848 years out of date.
3
There are several Saudi Consulates within the US and the Khashoggi's paperwork should have been possible at one of them. It may be too harsh to a victim of "rogue killers," but he could have been a bit more cautious.
2
As a former confidant of the Saudi leaders, Khashoggi was threatening to reveal state secrets to hostile Islamist groups. The leaders of Saudi Arabia therefore decided to detain Khashoggi at the consulate in order to peacefully interrogate him.
The individuals conducting the interrogation disobeyed their explicit orders not to harm Khashoggi and inadvertently killed him, trying to cover up their act in the most gruesome fashion.
That will be the story and they will stick to it.
Those individuals responsible for his death will be tried for something like accidental manslaughter in a Saudi court. They’ll be convicted and spend a token amount of time in jail. The U.S. and other Western countries will need not take any actions, since the killers will have faced justice in Saudi Arabia.
Most importantly, this will fade from the global news cycle in less than a week.
9
But what about the bone saw???
2
@John
It may be that the rogue fifteen have already had an assignation with the chopping block on their return to S A.
Hi, were here to trim the trees,
that's why we have chainsaws.
Where can we spread out a big rubber tarp?
9
MBS reckless in gross violation of human rights in Yemen--no small wonder in blatant murder with witless American President to "float" their alibi. Embarrassment beyond compare. US must withdraw weaponry for Yemen..........
13
Unfortunately the incompetent interrogator conveniently had an autopsy specialist with a bone saw on hand, to take care of the sloppy interrogation.
13
Okay, why was Jamal Khashoggi killed? What was he working on for a story that made it necessary to rub him out? I'm only thinking of the US 1930's mob killings that I watch on early morning TV ...
7
Do the “rogue killers” live in their mother’s basement too?
5
So a government-sanctioned murder of a journalist got a pass from an American president who hates real journalism. Look to see more blood on Trump's hand's in the near future. This is what he wants to happen here.
16
In the Fake President's perverted and revengeful headspace, this absurd denial is a marvelous opportunity to "get back" at Mr. Khashoggi's employer, the hated Jeff Bezos. With Trump there is usually an element of acting on some perceived personal grievance.
11
I would like to hear any recordings of the torture and killing. This will be invaluable in discovering the truth and understanding the brutality of the Saudis. NYTimes: Get the tapes. Apple: Do not let them get erased.
8
Well, he took Putin’s word for it, why not the King’s?
9
Never speak ill of your best customers.
14
....also, “King”? How does the U.S. gov’t take such a hard line on moderate nations like China while oil-rich monarchies’ possible murders of journalists are weighed with a grain of salt?
3
Should be titled: "Trump floats some disinformation to muddy the waters".
8
Ugh. Here we go again. Trump (Le incompetente) sides with a strong man, who offers a weak denial and no evidence.
I wonder who the “Rogue Killers” were in the Saudi consulate.
6
Trump always believes any man's denial of wrongdoing. But women? "Lock her up!" on no evidence whatsoever.
19
Three weeks to the election. Checks and balances.
12
"I'm pretty sure that something happened; I don't know what."
This is exactly what so many people said about Brett Kavanaugh in regards to Christine Blasey Ford's testimony but I got news for you all who seemingly flock to this naivete. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck - it's a duck. Don't kid yourself by sticking your head in the sand, it's a disservice to literally everyone and most importantly, yourself.
12
Hey, Trump -
Maybe it was rogue Democrats, or rogue Chinese, rogue media, or rogue members of the white house staff. Could have been rogue climate-change scientists. Or any other rogue from your enemies list.
12
Rogue president comments on rogue killers; you can't make this stuff up.
11
Wow! An autopsy specialist with a bone saw on the interrogation team? MBS can't really slither out of this.
10
How are rogue killers allowed in an embassy
13
@Jaye Ramsey Sutter
The loading dock.
3
Don the Con, aka POTUS, gets played like a cheap violin by his Saudi pals. Do you enjoy being made a fool of by the wonderful folks who would throw you and young Jared under the bus if the Chinese or Russians make a better offer for all those guns. No time to worry about an egregious human rights violation, there still money to be had in the desert and maybe time for another sword dance. So pathetic to hear your very odd and inappropriate ramblings and no words of condolences for Mr. Khashoggi's family.
12
He is not being played . . . he needs for this to go away.
2
Dear Saudi Arabia,
Okay (wink, wink), we will "believe" your new story that Prince MBS had no knowledge of any plan to kill Khashoggi ... but only under the condition that you stop killing innocent civilians in Yemen.
Maybe this will be the closest we can come to justice, that we overlook one evil act under the condition that you cease another set of evil acts.
Sincerely,
An American Citizen
PS – Please use the 60,000 laser guided bombs we are selling you responsibly!
6
In this picture stands the most gullible and the least self aware man on Planet Earth.
19
There were 146 public beheadings in Saudi Arabia in 2017 for a variety of crimes including adultery, homosexuality, witchcraft, sorcery atheism. While I don’t think this dismemberment isn’t awful, it is, it’s also quite normal for the Saudis. Do you folks know they don’t allow Jews from Israel in Saudi Arabia? There can no worship other than Muslim, punishment can also be death. Why does the US continue to coddle this violent, hateful regime? Oil. It’s past due time we developed solar, wind and hydro to their max and lowered our dependence on oil. We should not be propping up violent regimes by selling them arms. Our addiction to oil is what is causing this.
20
The US will actually be exporting oil next year. But the refineries were built to handle heavier crude oils from other parts of the world.
1
And we should not allow Saudis to invest in or have any ownership of American companies or companies contracting with the American government. Like tech companies. That’s all we need — no longer reliant on Saudi oil but increasingly reliant on their tech sector companies and dollars. Who needs Russia to hack the DNC or spread propaganda to influence elections when the Saudis could just do the same via financial blackmail?
6
Actually, the Saudis don't allow Jews from any country or anybody who has a stamp from Israel in their passport. It makes the "friendship" with Kushner seem hilarious.
The saudis didn’t want to kill him. It was just some torture that went wrong. That should b good enuf for Donald.
11
Unfortunately, the world is not a more sane, or decent place now, then it was after World War 2. We no longer establish a line of what is behavior that protects, and stands up for human rights, as the large populations of humans needing heating fuel, oil, etc. trumps life in the context of individual cases, such as Khashoggi. Somewhere in the last, especially 40 years, we, along with Europe, the stalwarts to defend human rights, and human life has gone the way of the push cart. England, because of their recent poisonings of people in their own country, by the Russian regime, have stood against them, and it seems that only serious poisonings or killings on our own soil would make this country stand for human rights. Or would we? It all depends on who is our leader. Need I say more.
3
Pardon, but the person killed was not a US citizen, was not killed by a US citizen, and was not killed on US soil or even, likely, with US made weapons; so why exactly should the US be taking the lead in investigating or prosecuting this crime? Isn’t this a matter for the Saudi Arabians and the Turks? I get it that the US has an interest in international human rights, but this killing is not even close to the most egregious human rights violation in the world or even by the Saudi government. And I understand that many people are upset because of probable links between Trump wealth and Saudi investment, but the Bush presidents and others had and have financial ties to the Saudis and many Americans have financial interests with China, which regularly commits egregious human rights violations (like allowing their prisoners to be used as taxidermed cadavers for museum display (— remember tat traveling show that was exhibited at least in liberal San Francisco?) and is currently engaged in destroying the culture and lives of at least two major populations among them (Uighur and Tibetan), but plenty of Americans still do business with them and most of us still buy products made in China.
So why all the hand wringing over this?
2
@Wondering
To make Trump look like he's not (a) acting and (b) doing the right thing.
2
He was a permanent resident of the US and worked for The Washington Post. He was not just some random person people are making a big deal about.
2
@Wondering It is actually quite important because he came to the US for protection from his government. Our prestige is on the line here. And if we don't speak up for international norms, leaving it to Turkey? The US has a strong interest in a world where countries don't murder dissidents at their consulates. Your point about China is well taken, however.
3
And in the meantime, news the media doesn't cover except when it is negative toward Trump. The Stormy law suit was dismissed today for lack of proof.
1
Lack of proof? There were two people in the room and yet I believe her. This man is unscrupulous and undeserving of his present job.
4
The Trump fleecing of the truth - Here we go again, down the fake newz Rabbit Hole... with the conductor and chief of fakery.
Remember this one? "why would it be the Russians?"... err, I mean't to say, "why wouldn't it be the Russians."
8
Of course they did. All of them, of course they behaved in morally reprehensible manner. Of course the Saudi King "strongly" denied involvement with the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi. What a idiotic question for Trump to ask. What did he expect? That the king would admit to murder? Of course Trump believes him. Trump thinks if he directly confronts someone whether it is Putin or Kim Jong Un or the Saudi King or Brett Kavanaugh that they will actually admit to the crimes of which they are accused. This is what a man who is totally self absorbed does. Trump only cares about two things: being adored and his monetary bottom line. And, by the way, this mess with Saudi Arabia is exacly what the emoluments clause is about, Senators. So do something!! Right? But they wouldn't. Those republican senatorial power brokers: McConnell, Grassley, Graham and Hatch have long abandoned any semblance of moral compass because of course they will do anything -- anything-- to maintain their power. Of course, of course, of course.
12
@Jo Trafford. The only people Trump seems to admire are horrific dictators and strongmen.
3
With Trump, it's always somebody else's fault and not his good buddy King Salman.
9
Just like rogue Russian hackers.
15
Exactly my thought
4
Yes that must be it.
There are rogue killers wandering around the Saudi embassy in Istanbul.
And you know what? They're probably democrats.
Anyway it's Obama 's fault the rogue killers are there. Yes that's the story folks.
22
They talked about it in Hillary's deleted emails
5
Welcome to the Saudi Embassy. What are you here for?
- I'm a rogue killer.
Are you here for anyone in particular?
- There's this journalist named Khashoggi.
What a coincidence. We've just arranged for him to come in and collect some papers.
Hope you don't mind a short wait. Would you like a coffee, a snack, some torture equipment?
19
The Saudis have been murdering civilians in Yemen with US arms.
They are a terrorist state. But that doesn't concern Trump, nor did it previous presidents.
The press is exercised about this journalist. As it should be.
But Saudi Arabia has been doing much worse, with hardly a peep from the media.
The selective outrage is infuriating.
12
@Jerry Engelbach
You are too right. We don't care about war crimes of America, only those of other nations. And we don't care about what Democrats do wrong, only Republicans. Too much selective morality.
Maybe it was the rogue dog in the consulate that ate the homework last week that was responsible?
7
The Saudi’s who had full access to their own embassy’s security systems, initially claimed he left the embassy. When that didn’t work, likely after conflicting evidence, the Saudis then claimed well he was murdered in the Embassy but by some random rogues, albeit reportedly fifteen of them, that were apparently just slowed free reign to enter the embassy.
10
Thus proceeds the process of walking back "severe punishment." Trump will be calling Jamal Khashoggi a "terrorist" by the end of the week to justify keeping the arms and munitions spigot open. Is this what we've come to, allowing Saudi Arabia to murder journalists and commit genocide in Yemen because we're making money from it?
16
This is absolutely appalling. I’m not sure who is to believe, but the whole thing seems deeply corrupt. I doubt we’ll ever know the truth, including of what he possibly knew about.
5
It is incredible that the NYT publishes such an article with the absolutely false conclusion about the Khashoggi disappearance and likely murder at the hands of Saudi operatives within the Turkish embassy. It has been widely reported that 2 small planes flew to Turkey with Saudis on-board on the day of the disappearance and that these planes left shortly thereafter. It is obviously easy to identify the plane and people on the flight. Why is the Turkish government not asking that these people be extradited to Turkey for questioning? Is Turkey complicit in the operation at the consulate? And if the Saudi leader did not order the "hit" why doesn't he cooperate in seeking to apprehend the criminal who did such a deed?
4
@kenneth Ehrlich Actually provably false or merely unsubstantiated?
@kenneth Ehrlich
The greater the hype, the lesser the likelihood they've gotten the story right.
Rogue killer is good. Early 20th Century anarchosts sipping espresso with Anatole France’s revolutionary angels took the time machine back to whatever century we are in.
These revolutionaries had
No trouble killing a Washington
Post journalist within the Saudi embassy in Turkey, chopping him up, and blaming poor rich Saudi Prince LMNOP.
Sad.
5
Rogue killers explains practically everything, I am not sure it cleans the stain.
Russia, Saudi's , Bulgaria has this rogue killers... this is not an excuse or defense , this is literally offense. Telling people we have rogue killers.
3
The depth of cynicism is appalling. Turkey will get a little cash, MBS will keep his job and military deals, and Trump will get to keep his finances and illegal foreign election shenanigans hidden for one more day.
Americans need to ask ourselves -- if we almost went to war to keep nuclear weapons out of the hand of the despot in NK, will we roll over and let MBS get his?
7
@paula
I'm thinking we will.
So one of two things just happened.
Either the Saudis did tell Trump what happened over the phone and he made it sound like pie in the sky speculation (plausible deniability on his part)
or
He got on global television and told them exactly how to alibi this murder.
7
If Trump spent a little time glancing at the daily National Intelligence Briefing and less time watching Fox News, he might learn what the rest of the world already knows.
It was not "rogue killers" or "terrorists" or Central American and Mexico border crossers, it was Saudi agents (probably following Royal orders) who killed Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and dismembered his body.
The Trump may not know that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens as well.
14
I'm wondering who put the phrase "rogue killers" into Trump's mouth. It certainly wasn't original with him.
My guess is that it was Kellyanne Conway who has gained a well-deserved reputation for coming up with stuff like this.
14
Trump is obviously just shrugging his shoulders on this because he's got Real Estate, money, whatever locked up in Saudi Arabia.
He has to sit on the fence and play stupid until it passes over, and the next international crisis hits the airwaves.
To quote the "genius", his words regarding yet another debacle, " who cares, we won".
Shameful.
12
Got a Winner! Sympathetic to Dictators-quite a strength to have. Saudis deny vehemently- rhetoric forthcoming from Trump---"I don't see why they wouldn't kill him".
3
Our rogue president desires to freely emulate his rogue fascist tyrannical “friends”. If I were a reporter or journalists that questioned trump in any manner, I’d be extremely concerned about the possibility of a “ rogue” visitation. If Saudi Arabia admits that they are culpable of the murder, will trump deny he ever intimated or said it was a rogue killing? Of Course!!
4
Why is anyone’s speculation a headline—president or not.
7
Typical trumpian maneuver. Deny. Plant seeds of a conspiracy theory. Serve to base. Since they believe that Obama is not an American and Hillary ran a child pornography ring out of a pizza restaurant, this will be an easy one for them to swallow. Meanwhile, the trump and his son in law line their pockets.
13
When this despicable man "raises the possibility" of something, he's lying or deflecting. Don't belief him. This chronic liar does nothing ethical.
9
No kidding Sherlock?
That president sure thinks he has an answer for everything.
Now he is Inspector Clouseau.
7
Here's a question you can ask people at the next Trump rally: If the Trump administration lured an American journalist into a building, murdered him and dismembered his body, would you still support Trump?
7
@Rodger Lofton Denial is a powerful emotion. If there were a video of Trump himself doing the deed they would insist it was a fake video and an actor.
4
Well, now CNN is reporting a botched interrogation job that led to Jamal Khashoggi's death. Waiting with bated breath for the Trump spin which will exonerate MBS so he can go back to business as usual. Go get 'm, tough guy.
6
Rogue killers? Yes, that could be the explanation. They broke into the Saudi consulate before Khashoggi arrived, and then murdered him when he entered. Let’s leave the investigation to Trump because he seems to be a real sleuth. The first thing he’ll do is erase the audio and video evidence, accidentally of course. Maybe Trump will determine that Khashoggi slipped on a wet floor and broke his neck. Let’s all chill while President Expert carries out his exhaustive investigation, in conjunction with Saudi authorities.
8
Trump is the BEST detective, if anyone can crack the case, he can!
3
He’s the best at everything!