Why are we sending arms to Saudi Arabia? They're using them to commit genocide against the people of Yemen. Can't we find a better way to provide Americans with jobs?
6
Handle this quietly, subtly. Increase US oil production and buy a lot less from Saudi. Sell more of our oil to others who now buy Saudi oil.
They'll get the message.
1
Trump claims to care about Christians, yet Christianity is illegal in Saudi Arabia. Trump claims to care about human rights, but if the Saudi's dismember the body of a dissident that is a clear violation of human rights. Trump claims to be a moral person, but ignores the mistreatment of a journalist. Trump cannot have it both ways he either cares about morality or he does not care about morality.
3
I scoffed when I saw the words "Trump" and "Moral Authority" so close together.
1
After many months of hearing Trump vilify all journalists, except for his Fox toadies, it is hard to believe he has any sympathy or concern for one less, especially one opposing the dictates of a "Supreme Ruler", to which he aspires. I would expect nothing less of this charlatan of a president than for him to cosy up to the Saudi regime, especially considering the huge financial implications of a contentious relationship. Trump's spin masters are hard at work on this story!
2
In Trump's world it's open season on journalists and other truth tellers. Every day that we let the Saudis get away with murder is a day that we help to endanger more journalists.
9
How could President of the United States visit a medieval country and play by THEIR rules in presenting friendship to this "behind the moon nation". Incredible! He knows nothing of this world, he never got educated and he never developed "a brain".
So the Saudis felt strong enough that he wouldn't act in their dirty affaire and so the murder went on. A shame that is sticking to his hands now too. But he was too dumb to realize that the Saudis now had him already involved in a murder case. So much for a "leader".
3
Trump has made a crass Faustian bargain with the devil. And the irony is that there is no bargain for either Trump or America as the article points out (there have been no additional weapon sales). And in the process, America's moral standing has been dragged down to the center of the Earth.
Trump's America is a moral blot on Lincoln's America that will take a long time to wash off. Vote blue in November.
2
As SA paid no price -- legal, monetary, relationships -- for 9/11 ... why, under this President, and with a single person, would anyone expect they would now?
It's horrifying and yet, all so familiar.
I pray SA's day of reckoning comes. Sooner would be better than later ... but just know this ... 9/11 families have not forgotten, and will not give up. Ever.
~ 9/11 family member
Part 3 Arms sales: in Syria the Russians installed & demonstrated their weapons, especially anti-aircraft systems, also airplanes. The US had to avoid confrontation with the Russians in the air. In the raid on Syria a few months back the British flew British made planes, the French flew French made planes, the US flew US planes. They all fired their missiles well back from the range of the Russian anti-aircraft systems.
Currently Russia has been selling arms to Saudi Arabia, India & China. For the US that is a major strategic threat.
The arms industry is a major part of the US economy. It is heavily dependent on exports. It is afraid that the NATO countries will smarten up & produce their own weapons & stop buying US stuff. So when the Saudis are willing to spend $110 Billion on US arms, the US can't afford to lose that sale.
US strategy is to create fear in NATO about Russia so it can sell more arms. That is definitely not working. And to create fear in the Middle East about Iran. That is not working either. Except in Saudi Arabia, which loves to buy US arms to destroy little neighbors.
In the end, as always happens, money talks. Money is power.
I like to take a broad view. In recent decades (our lifetime) there have been numerous genocides with millions killed in Europe, Africa, Myanmar, & in South America in Chile & Argentina in previous dictatorships there were many thousands of 'disappeared' (I read that that is happening right now in Saudi Arabia). So a few Europeans & Africans were brought before the International Criminal Court & sentenced to various prison terms. Very currently Saudi Arabia, using US made weapons, is creating virtual genocide in Yemen.
Throughout all this time period the developed & developing countries have chugged along & increased their GDP.
I read, I think, that Trump said something like "He's not (or wasn't) a US citizen". Translated that means "Why should I\we care?". It was more important to extract from Turkey a US citizen god-freak who in my view should have been held to serve a 30 year prison term.
Right now I hear the usual 'deny & delay' response. 'Delay' means the whole thing will blow over. Trump likes that.
So don't expect any real action by the Trump admin.
Oil & arms sales? I'll need Parts 1 & 2 to address those.
Choosing money ($51 billion arms deal) over a human life.
In Trump's mind, priceless. Dollars are all that matters
To most everyone else, appalling, outrageous and disgusting that dollars win out over a life.
Trump might as well wear Melania's jacket: "i don't really care. Do you?"
And he's giving a go ahead and blank check to Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian regimes to commit murder against dissidents and journalists without any repercussions from the US.
2
That the obscenely wealthy, especially those, like Trump, who had everything handed to them, make “the bottom line” the first priority is no surprise. But when that value set is put at the head of government, you get authoritarianism that threatens the rule of law and a government, also like Trump, with no humility, compassion, equality, social conscience or morality.
Enough Americans to trigger the Electoral College win made the choice to replace a foundation of moral government with Trump’s warped worldview, because Trump was no pig in a poke, and the result has been detrimental to U.S. citizens as well as America’s allies, with the repeat of past American mistakes, like the willful and unnecessary separation of children from their families at the border and ignoring Saudi-government sanctioned murder, blaming “rogue killers” for the Washington Post journalist’s murder — right, who just walked right into the Saudi embassy? Yet, the core of those who put this jackal in power will buy that ridiculous line too.
http://popularsovranty.org/index.shtml#tnpip
2
Pray for our country beset by horrendous leaders.
1
Part 2 - Oil: countries other than Saudi Arabia have lots of oil. Three I can think of - Russia, Iran & Venezuela. So if the US really wanted to have a competitive, low priced, world oil market it could relax\remove US oil related sanctions on Russia & Iran, & persuade & aid Venezuela to revitalize its oil industry for its own good.
I read that the world's second largest reserve of oil & gas was discovered just a few years ago in Argentina. It is in a somewhat remote area, without infrastructure, so it would be costly to develop. Now I know that Saudi Arabia has the world's lowest production costs, because its huge reserves are shallow & easily extracted, so it will always have the edge on pricing. But the point is that the world has lots of oil & natural gas when the price is right.
And there's coal. Everybody has lots of that, & if somebody could develop the technology to use it more efficiently & cleanly, its a cheap energy source.
And there's Wind & Solar & Tidal & Hydro-electric & Nuclear power sources. And the move to electric cars, buses & trucks. The world is becoming less dependent on oil. Not so on Natural Gas - the US & South America & UK are self-sufficient, & Europe relies on Russia & Qatar for that. Saudi Arabia is declining on its dominance of the world energy market. That's why they are desperate to diversify their economy.
Once again Trump claims that he spoke with the King of Saudi Arabia and he " firmly denied" that Saudi Arabia had anything to do with the murder of Khashoggi. Just like Putin denied that Russia had any involvement in the US elections. And Trump repeats these denials as convincing.
When Trump's father's millions and 4 bankruptcies failed to stop him from making catastrophically stupid business decisions and after he lost all credibility with American banks but was still wallowing in an ocean of debt who threw him a life line? The Saudi's and Russian oligarchs. It is simply blood money....mob money.
Why does America's human rights have to be held hostage to Trump's being the captive of some of the most criminal and monstrous regimes in modern history? And then to have the Republican Party mindlessly goose stepping to Trump's hideous tyrants' dance.
I'm sorry, the fact that Trump is president signals the beginning of the end for America. His supporters have to be as half-witted as is Trump to believe that he is a successful businessman. If business in America has sunk to the immoral level of Trump where murder is sanctioned by transactional leadership devoid of long term strategy, only invested in short term self interest then America is doomed.
Trump supporters are an indictment of the American educational system. How can 12 years of education produce such a massive amount of spectacularly ignorant individuals seemingly devoid of independent thought.
36
Sanctions and outrage about a male journalist’s murder, sure. But where is the outrage (or even single articles in NYT) about Saudi Arabia, the most misogynistic government/culture in today’s world being elected to the UN’s Commission on Women’s Rights?
https://www.unwatch.org/no-joke-u-n-elects-saudi-arabia-womens-rights-co...
This is a country and government that condones the horrific and drawn-out murder by stoning of young women believed to sullied their family’s honor by flirting with the wrong guy. Why no call for sanctions over those un-rogue killers?
3
If a picture speaks louder than a thousand words, here are some salient words about Trump's relationship with the Saudis, and chilling words they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/22/one-orb-to-rule-them-all...
1
With Mr. Trump, there's little nuanced response on any issue. Money always comes first.
There's no real foreign policy in this administration either. Everything is seat-of-the-pants and subject to change at any time.
4
Yesterday, the NYT published a story which explained that while Republican women were deserting Trump their husbands were stick with him--because Trump's policies made them more money.
Why should Trump be more ethical than his male supporters?
The president and his male acolytes live by a simple credo:
What's in it for me?
1
I just heard Mr. Trump on the news suggesting that the killing in the Saudi embassy in Ankara may have been done by a ‘rogue killer’.
First, it appears that Mr. Trump distinguishes between "rogue" and "non-rogue" killers, something that only a Mafia boss would contemplate. Second, he seems to be signalling to the Saudis the type of story they should fabricate.
It is unclear if this is a Trumpian advice - the kind of advice he gave to Prime Minister May not long ago - or if it is all that the PR organizations, hired by the Saudis in the US and Europe, can come up with. In either case, it is a clear indication that this time the brutal, murderous, regime in Riyadh will be put on trial in the court of world's public opinion.
During the week-end, the news were suggesting that supporters of the Saudi regime were busy trying to convince the Turks to stop leaking further details. Now that the story is largely out, they are struggling to come up with a plausible explanation that could keep the Saudi royal family out of the picture. But, they should realize that is now too late. Those following the reports on how MBS took over all levers of power in his country, know that it is impossible for any one there to initiate such an operation without his direct involvement.
1
President Trump's pusillanimous approach to Saudi Arabia has to be viewed from another angle.
It may not be any concern for American economy being hurt that is uppermost in his mind when he shows reluctance to cancel the $110 billion deal to sell arms to the Saudis as a first step toward punishing them for their latest human rights violation. For a country whose economy is worth trillions of dollars, a deal that would bring in $110 billion – that too, if and when implemented – is just a drop in the bucket. As of now, as stated in this article, the deal exists in the form of “Letters of intent or interest, not actual contracts.”
The Saudis' threat that they would respond to any punitive American action “with greater action” is just laughable. It seems they haven't woken up to the fact that gone are days when they could threaten to use oil as a weapon to blackmail America. Equally laughable is the fact that President Trump has not responded to the threat in kind, as is his wont with regard to other nations.
What actually stands in the way of Trump's taking any punitive action against Saudi Arabia is the fear of hurting the Trump business empire which is being expanded into that kingdom. It was this business interest, rather than any national interest, that prompted him to pick Saudi Arabia as his first foreign destination after taking office.
It is laudable to see Congress gearing up to act against the Saudis for their egregious human rights violation.
1
The main reason Trump will not condemn the Saudi's action is that he admires world leaders who murder their own citizens that oppose them or offend them. The examples are Putin, Duterte, and Kim. This is just one more "leader" that Trump would like to emulate.
1
Trump's view of foreign policy as an extension of his view of business deal-making is not surprising. What is most disturbing to me about this latest attempt to publicly put profit above morality is that it has the potential of encouraging Americans to see job protection--no matter what the job--as a valid excuse for avoiding ethical choices. This stance, I think, contains fascist echoes, and can lead many to a "might is right" approach to government behavior in the near future.
2
U.S.-Saudi relations, older than their present leaders now, were always purely “transactional”. The Kingdom’s abundant, cheap petroleum reserves and American knowhow and security umbrella complemented each other. The Wahabi State meticulously prohibited any diffusion of American democratic values in the kingdom. Her brand of Islam, once touted as a strength to the kingdom and her allies, have proven otherwise, after 9-11. Recent advances in technology have deprived the Saudis of their ‘niche status’ in the Oil markets. The kingdom’s cash reserves and her efforts to modernize her economy provides room for the two countries to cooperate. It would be naïve to expect otherwise.
With regards to U.S. arms supplies to the Kingdom, the question is not about its morality or profits but the stability of the kingdom and the ‘safety’ of the weapon systems.
This whole situation reeks of double talk by Trump while we continue to be the arms dealer for the world. When did we become so callous? Yes, other presidents have done it for a long time. What happened to human rights? What happened to humanity?
Ask the 1%. We know Trump has no humanity. Either preach human rights to inhuman people and back up your words or keep our mouths shut and let and let it all hang out.
I'm hearing allot of shifty rhetoric.
For Trump it's always been, and will ever be, about the money; and that's about it.
3
This is what happens when you elect a self-proclaimed business man as President of a country. Profit trumps all.
1
So just to be clear, the NY Times position is that it was moral for the "bottom line" to determine US policy for 50 years while our political class and few percent business owner nobility sent 7 million manufacturing jobs to China (while excusing their invasion/take-over of Tibet + massive Gulag police state, trillions in trade cheating and intellectual property and counterfeit theft) , while our elites also rigged the flooding our labor market with 50 million desperate immigrants to kill wages which resulted in a doubling of the wealth held by our 1% and doubling of the US poverty rate? BUT ... now it not alright, for Trump to allow the bottom line to "win" over the death of one Saudi national who may not even be dead, or could have been killed by any one of numerous actors from the violence crazed Middle East?
Trump has already made several excuses for the Saudis: "no one knows what happened, "it could be rogue elements," 'the King strongly denies the charges", "Kasshoggi is not an American," "I want to see the tapes", etc. Meanwhile, Trump has a record of self-interested deals with the Saudis, including sales of a yacht, the Plaza Hotel, and condos in Trump Tower, and use of Trump facilities for official lodging and national day receptions. Jared has also received funds from the Saudis and is a buddy of MBS.
3
What Trump said was "It" was not an American citizen. I may be nit picking but I thought Trump worded what he said very poorly. One does not refer to a non-American citizen as an "It"; human beings should not be turned into objects. But, I should not have been surprised. Trump has a talent for saying the worst and most inappropriate things.
For the heinous crime of killing inhumanely Khashoggi Trump has touted to punish Saudi Arabia severely, How? He will force Saudi Arabia to buy more American arms in hundred of billion dollars to kill more Yemenis and others including like Khasoggi without any fear and shame. And Saudi will gladly to do that raising the oil price to roof. It is happening since Bush-Cheney , Obama and now Trump. Of course before it was without killings now mass and Embassy killings in broad day lights.
2
Before killings? The cruel and tortured murders of girls and women with Saudi connections don’t count for you?
It is clear evidence that the Trump Administration is For Sale!
5
This is what the so called evangelicals worship, Money. The president won't do anything about the murder of a journalist, because money is more important to him than humanity or morality.
2
Trump is a transactional leader not a transformational leader. In this he is like many an amoral dictator worldwide: morals, ethics, higher ideals do not matter. Winning is all.
People think he is being honest because it is true that the 'success' of the US and many countries has (is) been achieved by sacrificing the human rights and lives of countless millions.
But, the big difference is that never before has a President encouraged a purely transactional world view, made it foreign policy. To date Trump has encouraged prejudice, bigotry, misogyny, racism as an acceptable norm to gratify himself, get his own ends met. True, these failings of mankind have always existed but they had been kept from becoming a cultural norm by appealing to higher ideals.
In being on-the-fence he is normalizing extrajudicial murder (doesn't matter there is no hard evidence to date). It's a pattern, he has normalized violence and intolerance to freedom, dignity and respect, embraced violent despots and attacked allies. He is even using the same playbook – a gradual creep to absolution - "I talked to him, he said he didn't do it, he's a good man, it was someone else".
When Bush legalized torture, rendition, kidnapping, it became a new business in some countries: developing black sites. It opened Pandora's box. Anyone could be taken from anywhere for any reason–disappeared–no fear of castigation, there was no moral highroad, barbarity was videotaped, the video used as weapon to manipulate.
1
Yes, our businesses are benefitting from the Saudi military order. That’s a hundred billion and a decade of follow up orders. But we are long past Coolidge’s claim that the business of America is business. We are living in a world facing many challenges and we are the people who must lead the rest of the world or let it descend into chaos where anyone could become the target of people like this nasty little autocrat who seems to have ordered this deed. Life is more important than money. Money can be replaced, lives lost are gone forever.
1
Am I to understand from trump's statements that if the US stops the weapons sales, then millions of jobs will be lost in the weapons industry? I did not realize that all the new low unemployment was because all those hundreds of thousands of jobs were created to manufacture weapons for sale to Saudi Arabia? trump stated that stopping the sales would hurt jobs in America. Please how many jobs would be lost or hurt if the US does not sale to Saudi Arabia? I really want to know how many jobs would be lost. Something does not ring true with the president's statement. Are they the only ones the US is making weapons for? Or is it more likely it will hurt the employees who work on trump property in Saudi Arabia & the UAE & other trump properties & trump's wallet? Oh can't forget the bail out of Jared's 666 property (so appropriate an address for a Jewish slum lord).
2
You cant cancel what you haven't got, meaning actual contracts from Saudi.
Wasn't many weeks ago Trump was trying to get more oil out of them.
Smoke and mirrors classic Trump.
Shame he has no idea what he's saying never mind what he's doing.
On the plus side he delivered Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court so he won't be jailed for it.
2
The President has once again debased his Office. By putting a quick buck for private companies above doing what is right, moral authority is eroded. For Mr Trump to then use a far flung idea that some rogue individuals were responsible for the murder and not the Saudi state, is a tool of convenience, that in his mind allows him to avoid sheeting home blame to where it really lies. It is clear that Saudi Arabia detained a journalist and had him murdered. This debased approach to valuing human life green-lights to despots and tyrants, that if you are rich, this President and the country he leads, will look the other way. In essence from Mr Trump's perspective the country has become the moral equivalent of a prostitute, where if the price is right, he is 'open for business'.
1
Trump is a take the money and run kind of guy. He has some weird idea that he can deal with this Saudi Prince without confronting him over unpleasant things, indefinitely.
3
Finally they have come up with an explanation which conveniently suits all - it is the "rouge elements" in Saudi Arabia's security establishment who may have murdered Khashoggi and they will have some bureaucratic joint investigation which will soon be forgotten with the next news cycle of "Live with Kardashians in the oval office"
2
The constant refrain that the US needs to preserve its moral authority is bizarre. 4million dead in Vietnam, support for Israel, Mubarak in Egypt, Somoza in Nicaragua, Zaire, Philippines, South Africa, 1 million dead in Iraq..... post WWII there is such a long list of anti-democratic, pro-dictator foreign policies. How does this meta-narrative of the US as global good guy continue to stand? Let us start looking at our world for what it is. If we stop lying to ourselves maybe we can start to make a change.
2
@Aron Corbett
True moral authority is thin on the ground.
A reckoning is due.
However, illusory as actions and facts may be (cf. All men are created equal - still got along way to go on that one) ideals are essential for transformation and evolution to the better. Don't let the 'best' ruin the good however negligible that has been to date.
“... there is sentiment among members of both parties [in Congress] to use the leverage of arms sales to send a message to Saudi Arabia that it cannot get away with killing a journalist with American ties on foreign soil.”
Right, but notice the deafening silence of Congress (and NYT) when Saudi women are kidnapped, tortured and murdered.
Stoning or beheading by sword for sexual activity? Imprisonment without end for attempting to drive a car? Where are the calls for sanctions for those multitudes of human rights offenses?
1
To be fair, Canada is following the same policy of continuing arms sales.
1
Experience shows that all congressman and senators now supposedly outraged will finally surrender to Trump. Don’t forget appointing ultra conservative judges is more important than life of a journalist, human rights etc. The red states are ruling the world.
@Eraven, no. The con men and crooks and would-be dictators who have the red states deluded, their marks and chumps, are ruling the world. The people who back them, in red states, blue states, purple states, your states (and you certainly do have some), are not ruling even the shreds of their own destinies anymore. As they will presently come to see.
1
Supposing that this murder took place, it indicates the fault line of Trump's betrayal of American political norms. His statements that the press are enemies of the people and his open hostility to the press at his rallies have spread to other countries.
Norms are good. With them we show the world that we do repress our autocratic tendencies and they should too. The sad fact is the Saudi actions will harm them. Killing reporters is backsliding into uninformed societies that are weaker for it.
We should elect officials who will maintain our democratic norms, not only for the good of our children, but those of other countries as well.
The notion of see no evil and so we can trade with you no matter what you do leads to violence and chaos and doors closing. It seems only pro-autocratic governance Mnuchin is going to show to that scheduled davos in the desert meeting: a retraction bought of Trump's policy. How could a reporter dare to cover it!
1
Please wake up, folks. The Trump response to this has nothing at all to do with arms sales. That's just another one of Trump's lies. It is all about money for the Trump and Kushner families. Everyone knows that they can no longer get funding in the US, especially in New York, because they are crooks. So, where is the money? Well, until recently the Russian Oligarchs seemed a logical place to go, but that has become complicated. So, obviously the next place is the Saudi's. Why in the world do you think Jared Kushner has been so friendly with the them.
1
This is why the Constitution has the emoluments clause.
1
The paragraph --"But Mr. Trump’s predecessors justified their decisions to keep arms flowing to wayward allies by warning of the national security implications of cutting them off — not by focusing on the financial well-being of defense contractors. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are both important partners of the United States in regional issues, particularly the fight against terrorism."
The "national security" premise is baloney. Saudi Arabia now looks quite capable of 911 involvemet. US iumbrellas issues under "national secuirty" when convenient.
As soon as someone holds a shiny object up in front of Rubio he will change his position and support Trump. He is the Senate waterboy--will carry water for anyone who promises him something--anything.
1
Now Trump Says "Rogue Killers" may be responsible for the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, after hearing a sincere and heartfelt denial of any knowledge of the affair from the King of Saudi Arabia. (NYT article, 10/26/2018)
It's a replay of Putin and Trump, when Putin sincerely denied interfering in U.S. elections. It's close to Trump's belief, after his last visit, that Korea vowed to denuclearize.
Russia is still interfering in worldwide elections via social media and "back door" meetings. Kim Jong Un won't denuclearize until the U.S. does.
Saudi Arabia has helped ISIS and crushes the human rights of women and foreign workers in their country.
They blockade, and planned to attack Qatar, home to two U.S. military bases. The king does not take kindly to journalistic criticism, much like Trump.
Trump's list of international friends is short, but replete with the leaders of enemy states.
These countries and their dictators are not our friends, nor friends of democracy, human rights or environmental protection.
That Trump prefers them to our democratic allies shows he learned well, from childhood on, that power and control, through lies, financial malfeasance and racism, are the best treasures.
This is not the man to advance democratic values and liberty.
1
The Saudis, like the Russians, have many investments in Trump's personal properties/real estate. This is the bigger issue for him. He needs to keep them happy.
3
In the big scheme of things, $110 billions is not significant to US economy, for the tax cut, we are already incurred additional one trillions debt. No, Trump is looking for his own financial interest with the Saudis. If Saudis government is directly involved with the disappearance of the journalist Jamal, and there is no meaningful sanction against the Saudis government by Trump, that means we have blood on our hands.
3
Former Presidents were not as straightforward, in their explanations associated with allowing arms sales and were less direct in tying them to jobs in America.
President Trump is being criticized for being more honest.
Irony?
1
@Maurice Gatien
It has nothing to do with jobs in the US. It isn't even a done deal and by all accounts not even a fraction that amount.
"That figure, though, was wildly inflated and misleading. Mr. Trump’s package essentially consisted of letters of intent or interest, not actual contracts"
When being disingenuous is confused with being honest we can truthfully say, we have walked through the looking glass.
There are alot of people who rule their lives most narrowly by the almighty dollar, and really don't understand other values. Would we want a President of the United States to be so short sighted? We've got him.
Haven't you seen it time after time. Trump is not a humanitarian. He doesn't like people. He takes note and has "softness" in his heart when a person lauds him. This evidence shows his only appreciation of another human being.
Another for instance - look what he has done to immigrant children in the past. Look at his suggestions for the future. To punish those immigrant adults he causes real harm to their separated children.
He is the man-child who revels in being Scrooge McDuck!
1
"Mr. Trump has a point about competitors. As the Saudis hedge on Thaad, they have been in talks with Russia for the purchase of its S-400 air defense system."
No, he does not. The fact is the Saudi regime is protected by the US military and is not in a position to go against the US wishes. Their "interest" in purchasing Russian S-400 air defense system is simply a pretext: 1) for going to Moscow to discuss Syria and other regional issues with Putin; and, 2) to signal to their citizen that they are not under the US control, militarily or politically.
Those familiar with military know that once a country's military is brought up with a particular set of weapon systems it is not easy to introduce another system into the mix. In particular, many challenges await if the new system has to be fully integrated into the rest. We have seen this in the case of Egypt and Iran. After their revolution, the Iranians were buying US weapons and munitions on black markets for many years (See Iran-Contra Affair), although the US was supporting Iraq in the 8-year Iraq-Iran war.
Weapon systems are closely tied to military personnel's training and experience they need to gather in cooperative tactical and strategical engagements. As such, it typically takes a generation for a country to switch from one set of weapon systems to another. Given the fact that Saudis are currently engaged in a war in Yemen, the only country they can logically go to to buy their military equipment is the US.
1
Defending a murderous regime and royal foreign muslim is fine for a Republican, right, but have a democrat defend an American muslim and what do you think happens? The immorality and hypocrisy is astounding. The Pharisees of the south know no God except money, and so Trump is their champion.
8
@mjw, if they were only in the south, Trump wouldn't be president now. Alas.
Trump places more value on the money changers than human rights. Why? Because he is one of them. Trump's sole obsession is making money, gobs of it. Like his appetite for junk food, he can never get enough. And now as president of the one percent he and his equally culpable morally bankrupts Republicans have sold their souls and their party to the highest bidder. They will put a rapist on the Supreme Court for God's sake. Does that you how utterly despicable these people are? It should. And next month it is incumbent upon the American Electorate to drive these money changers from the halls of Congress, and the White House. They are the ruination of what little values the United States has left.
DD
Manhattan
13
Test of trade-off? Are you kidding me. You need a moral compass to distinguish a trade off. No, this is business. We have a cold, mercenary capitalist constantly calculating the bottom line--his.........
8
This is a guy who values profit over people. Always has; always will. His dumbed base will cheer and scream at his rallies in unison to anything he says and does with their gutter values because this is how Trump Makes America Great Again. The Trump owned Republican Party will make a fuss but ultimately do nothing for fear of angering their Dictator and jeopardizing their jobs with Trump's supporters. CNN's Trump defenders like Scott Jennings, Alice Stewart and the always despicable Rick Santorium will say that we can't stand for this then qualify their support of Trump with "Remember Bengazhi!" and "But we're makin money".
Vote for Dems next month even if you don't like them and maybe then we can really "Make America Great Again" without wearing those red dunce caps.
14
The degrading business of selling murder weapons in order to earn the nation enough money to buy Chinese electronics. Count me out.
7
The best retaliation.......aggressively promote alternative energy sources.
7
@Fastnat The only problem with that is that MBS has invested in Tesla and more.
I am utterly baffled by this Saudi’s Arabia fauxtrage. They killed a journalist. They are also a kingdom — meaning an absolute monarchy — where women got the right to vote in 2011.
Now they are too immoral for us to do business with? I must be the crazy one.
4
Trump's "severe punishment" was followed by "they deny it in every way you can imagine".
Sound familiar?
After US intelligence agencies said Russia hacked into US election with Putin's ok, DT stood beside him him and said, "President Putin was very strong and powerful in his denial today". (The tell he's selling a con job is when he strings out those adjectives.)
He then undermined US intelligence: "I don't see any reason why it would be [Russia]". His audience of one was happy but folks in the US not so much, so his White House decided to announce he had actually used a "double negative" and meant the opposite:
And so the charade continues: Sec of State Pompeii meets the Saudi king, who'll deny it because of course it's MBS (Kushner's best rich-boy pal) who ordered the operation, but optics are better with.the 'exotic' old sheik.
"Getting to the bottom of it" for DJ Trump always means his bottom line. Everything is reduced to money & ratings. The money it's putting into America's pocket by producing military equipment for the Saudis is blood money. The slaughtering of Yemeni citizens & killing of US based dissident in a onsulate are part of his promised "getting to the bottom of it" Getting to that ol' bottom line.
If we can live with this, then we accept that Americas soul is up the sale. It's business as usual in Trumpland, where it always profits a man to gain the world and lose his soul.
9
What is a ‘rogue killer’? Nice adjective Donny but it won’t cut it. Do these ‘rogues’ work at the Saudi Consulate perhaps?
Pathetic!
6
How pathetic. We now know the price of selling one's soul.
What is he going to to when the Turkish government provides credible evidence that the the Saudis killed that man?
3
Is it any surprise that someone who opposes background checks on firearm sales would be perfectly happy selling billions in arms to a murderous government?
12
I believe trump's actions or non action here are personal. Greatly impressed by the prince's wealth, envious of the ability to cut off the heads of dissenters, glowing globes and gold necklaces are immensely attractive to him. A pathological liar married to the world's most 'bullied' model, he measures carefully as to whether punishing the Saudis will cause them to reveal the gifts and monies they have given him and the Jared. When people analyze trump's behavior they forget that such analysis is warranted. A sociopath has one plan: Winning. He has explained this loud and clear. And winning is not for the 'people', it is for trump's wallet. Period. RIP Khashoggi.
14
This upcoming meeting is just one of many instances when Trump demonstrates his basic lack of a conscience. Trump is the embodiment of cruelty and he chooses “friends” with the same personalities. While they pat each other on the back, the poison they spew destroys everything good the USA stands for. Everyone, #vote. Convince your friends to vote. Drive people if necessary.
8
“It sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers — who knows,” Mr. Trump said.
"who knows" Translation-The journalist could have been abducted by aliens.
So the Saudi King and President Trump want us to believe that "rouge killers" got access to the the Saudi Embassy, and abducted or killed the journalist without anyone being the wiser.
Sure, that seems plausible!
12
@Mike Does the Liar in Chief or his advisers really think the "rogue killers" theory is plausible? Can Trump's base really believe this nonsense? How many work at armaments and munitions factories anyway?If his base believes this nonsense or they think they are going to get some of those promised war jobs then there is really no hope for change among his base.
1
There is no calculus as it concerns human rights.
Trump and Kushner made it very , very clear from day one that the WH was going to be their own private investment vehicle. Trump compares himself to Schwatrzman , Fink and Diamon not other Presidents.
Trump and Kushner both knew that the WH was not a lifetime gig. We should expect nothing more from them although Kushner hiding behind his father-n-law offers a larger frame to his cowardice.
Every news organization should be in front of every GOP member of Congress asking for their opinion. This is their president. And then ask every Trump voter how it would feel if the "journalists" at Fox News just disappeared in a Saudi embassy.
8
Perhaps dispatching Pompeo to Riyadh is the "severe punishment" the Leader has threatened to mete out to yet another denying despot.
It's all just cynical window-dressing, because the Fix is in; in fact, it was in before he ever set foot inside the Turkish embassy.
This is merely a test case. It signals to all dictators that the US will give them a pass whenever they feel like undermining, persecuting, and assassinating those whom the Leader of the USA himself has labeled "enemies of the people."
And assuming audio or video of this grisly horror still exists, you can bet that Erdogan is using it as leverage to squeeze everything he can out of both the US and SA.
Appeasing autocrats merely whets their appetite for the next unpunished outrage. That includes the one in the White House.
3
"What good does that do us." Keeping in mind that 15 of the 19 hijackers involved in 9/11 were Saudi Citizens, I would also ask Mr.Trump to consider Matthew 16:26, a verse I'm sure he's quite familiar with: "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"
3
Seriously, though, what do you expect Trump to do? I understand that many Americans want to see the US stand up to such a flagrant and disgusting act, a violation of human rights to the extreme, but at what cost?
Trump is brash and blunt, he will pay no political cost for not challenging Saudi Arabia, and he is stating the obvious that losing a $100b arms deal (however inflated) over the death of a single non-US citizen would be an overreaction. Sure, the media is particularly angry about this situation as it was one of their own and a rare case of a country sending an assassination team into another country to eliminate a political dissenter, but it's not relationship shattering.
To act as if the US is sacrificing it's moral authority or credibility over this single killing is purely a liberal reaction and absurd. Relationships with other countries are far more consequential and important to each than a single person; we know this, they know this. It might hurt some people to hear a president be so blunt about it. Sanctions. Sure. Make it hurt. But to scrap the relationship would be a huge mistake.
You realize wars have been started over less. Clearly he wants it to escape his ever more gullible base that this is not the beginning but the end that justified the means.
Well it doesn't and it won't. otherwise we are lowered to believing the price of one, ten one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand doesn't matter. What exactly IS this value you)he place on 'relationship'...when he cant even respect our allies?
When do we start acknowledging full -on his treasonous behavior? Where do his lies stop? At what point do this country's elected officials in the GOP (also behaving in a complicit and therefore treasonous manner) begin to pull back from the abyss and act like elected officials or heavens... patriots? When will America wake up from this self -induced coma?
Stay tuned... November 6 can't come soon enough.
1
I saw this in a movie once where after a grisly murder, the killers hired a company to come in and clean up the place.
I bet you there are at least a half-a-dozen companies like this in Istanbul that offer their services at reasonable rates.
4
It was clear from the outset of this affair that the more MBS and Trump procrastinated and obscured the issue the more likely it was to be forgotten or diluted by other issues , argument and claims. Now we are supposed to believe "rogue elements" might have done it, etc etc etc. After Abu Gharaib, and Gunatanamo, truly the United States has sunk to a new low in international affairs.
2
Hillary Clinton would be more forceful to the Saudi’s. There is no way she would let profits be in front of human rights. She would cancel the arms deal. It is not right to profit from abusers of human rights. Except when it comes to the 25 million the Saudi’s gave her foundation. That’s different.
5
The question the left often misses is that merely because someone issues an accusation, doesn't mean the accused is guilty. Moreover, what would their reaction be if Britain or Germany were the accused as opposed to the Saudi government. The Saudi's and the Turkish government have been having their spats for years, is it possible that Turkey is responsible for this persons disappearance?
1
Many things are wrong with this President, but among the worse are his and his cabinet's belief that government is a business, it's not. Profit margins do no work for government, they kill. You can't strategize that the reduction of pollution regulations helps the bottom line when the side effect is cancer or asthma for a population. The public good is not calculated on a income statement. Having studied both business administration and public administration, the 2 are very different. Public administration creates programs for the good of people, its citizens, and tries to do as little harm as possible even if some fraudulent people are served as long as the target population is fully served. These target populations may be babies, children, seniors dependent on government for their survivor. Bottom line does not save people. trump is a cruel and unqualified leader to think that profit is the target.
3
re: Trump's comment about "rogue killers". This looks like the beginnings of the cover story that was certainly the subject of his conversation with King Salman. Mike Pompeo is now on his way for a personal meeting with the Saudis to make sure everyone gets the story straight. There's already been too much information made public to completely sweep it under the rug. The 15 members of Khashoggi's greeting committee should be nervous about their future but I suspect this will be more of a career ending rather that life-threatening situation for them. They can be whisked off to a comfortable detention for a while until the news cycle takes another turn and people forget about it. Almost nobody in Saudi Arabia will ever hear about it and the attention of citizens in the Western democracies will soon turn to events closer to home.
1
Of course he doesn’t care; it was a journalist.
Reporters and media owners need to stand up and make a pact that says the following:
1) We won’t cover media circus events like Trump rallies or silly ones like Kanye West. Send one pool reporter and that’s it.
2) If Trump or Sarah Sanders demeans or is cruel to a reporter during a press conference, they ALL get up and leave. If all that is left is FOX, the oxygen of attention he feeds on disappears.
3
@Melissa Westbrook, if the press had treated Trump as he deserved instead of making a spectacle of his campaign, and shrieking over any tidbit that could embarrass Clinton--a horserace, to sell stories-- we wouldn't be in the awful position we are now. I include the NYT in that.
It's nearly complete, the transformation of a once-great nation into tawdry, court-motel facsimile of the tar-pit that is the Trump family.
While it has been plain for some time that greed is the ultimate American value, trumping goodness, charity, even life itself, it hadn't been made explicit before.
Now it has. Basking in conference-center splendor and a bunch of Saudi hoo-hahs looking stunned by their good fortune, our Trump announced that, no, murder isn't a good enough reason to limit profit even a little.
Trump, lost and waiting for directions, surrounded by his angry and grasping babes, gives the glad hand to our most unreliable, duplicitous ally and essentially says, "There you go, boys, if I didn't give you hard time about this dead body, I'm certainly going to keep quiet about the next few".
And the world sees again that America is afflicted not just with Republicans or Trump, but with the kind of deluded, arrogant sense of rightness and mission that leads benighted people to wander off hundred foot cliffs into the dark and roiling sea.
Our erstwhile friends are just waiting for the splash.
2
First, there is circumstantial evidence that the journalist was killed or kidnapped from the Saudi consulate. That is not proof that the Saudi government had him killed but it does warrant investigation, which is ongoing.
Even if proof is forthcoming, however, does one murder justify the economic disruptions that canceling these deals would cause? There are workers who would lose jobs at worst, or hours at best, and who have families to support. There are retirees who have their 401K plans invested in these companies and would see the value of their retirement funds drop. What does one say to them?
If it could be proven that the Saudi's kidnapped him I could see using trade deals to claim his freedom. If he is already dead, who is helped by this sort of action and who, ultimately, is hurt?
The last paragraph says it all; arms sales are what matters. Yes, foreign policy involves managing a complex set of competing factors, so eliminating morality as a consideration does make things easier for the amoral simpleton in charge. His lack of basic humanity however is quite stunning.
2
This is not ONLY about Trump. The bottom line is that Saudi Arabia has purchased US loyalty--bought and paid for.
1
A deal with the devil, if ever there was one: the $112 billion Saudis earned by extracting oil and gas from the ground is the same we will earn by looking the other way.
Powerful evidence fossil fuels have eroded both climate, and America’s record as a defender of human rights.
2
Now that Trump has speculated about "rogue killers" possibly being responsible for the apparent Saudi butchering of a Washington Post journalist, we should remember how Trump claimed that rogue hackers might have been responsible for what we now know was (and is) Russian manipulation of the American election process.
2
The headline could just as easily be changed and read:
"In Trump's and his Family's Presidential Bargain, the Bottom Line Proudly Wins.
His mobster-like family is enriching itself with ill-gotten Russian and Saudi money, e.g. Jared-dearest with his aptly named building 666, while at the same time cheating Uncle Sam by not paying taxes.
Heck, why should a little brutal murder of a permanent resident throw the Don of the mobster cartel off that course?
11
The photo says so much. More than words.
Melania, the Donald, Ivanka.
Who can look at this photo and not find them to be hideous ?
8
As the Russians own a piece of Trump I suspect the Saudi's own the remaining parts. Trump says the bottom line is to protect American jobs when in reality it is to protect his bank account. Sad part is Trump does not get any kick back from the Hawks in congress. Where is the muscular foreign policy Hawks of days gone by. The Bomb them into the Stone Age hawks have become parrots of their Alpha Male Trump.Trump just said the King of Saudi Arabia just denied they has anything to do with this mystery. That's like asking the cat with feathers on his muzzle where is the canary. Trump also said his BFF Putin gave him his word that he did not meddle in our election. Trump also said Kim is not making Nukes anymore. Because Kim told him so. We have to relish that Trump is suck a trusting soul. We have a saying for trusting souls like Trump is New York.
5
Trump said it himself, he loves the Saudis: "They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million," It's not American arms deals he is worried about, its his own bottom line. As was said in Abscam, "money talks and ........ walks."
11
The denial is part of the message of fear and intimidation, where celebrity opponents of the regime are conveniently murdered in public view by persons unknown. The message is, of course, that no one is safe from the regime, anywhere, anytime.
The master of this is Putin. Take a look at this transcript of the eerily prescient interview with Boris Nemtsov, later murdered in Moscow, from Anthony Bourdain"s "Parts Unknown"--the scenario is chillingly familiar:
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bourdain-boris-nemtsov-ru...
5
@SomeGuy, I never thought we'd have to worry about that happening here. I do sometimes wonder now, though, and consider how easy it would be to find those of us who have protested. I think paranoid things, like how in NYC I wouldn't be noticed for that sort of thing, but in Oklahoma, I would be taken pretty early on... We've seen babes in cages, we've seen election rigging and have no paper ballots, we see the treasury being emptied and poured out to the rich. We've seen a man lying before Congress and the nation, having a bizarre tantrum, and becoming a Justice of our Supreme Court the next week. And we have to notice that the president does all those things, too. And so do senators. And everyone goes on as if it's fine. So what will come next? Brrrr.
Is any other country imposing punishment or sanctions on Saudi Arabia ?
@Enough Humans
The foreign ministers of the UK, France and Germany have sent a letter signed by all three directly to King Salman, insisting on information about what happened to Mr. Khashoggi.
1
@Sarah...the question was "Is any other country imposing punishment or sanctions on Saudi Arabia?" The answer is NO.
@Enough Humans, it's early days; first, Britain, Germany and France have called for investigations with sanctions possible should the evidence indicate. Second, this man was an employee of the Washington Post, an American company. He lived in Virginia. Your question is untimely and its implication that the case is being or should be ignored is ill made.
1
Trump is part of the cover-up of what happened to Mr. Khashoggi. Are journalists safe in the United States?
7
Yesterday we read about suburban men in Ohio who don't care how amoral Trump is, as long as he lines their pockets with money. Today we read about how Trump doesn't care how amoral the Saudis are, as long as they line his and his son-in-law's pockets with money.
So now we are witnessing how powerful men get away with murder. Through their continued support of Trump, the men of Dublin, Ohio, put their stamp of approval of the brutal murder of a respected international journalist. They think it is fine for a man to be hacked to pieces by paid assassins, merely because he was doing his job well.
I've been watching the Man in the High Castle, based on the Philip Dick novel about the Nazis winning WWII, and it is starting to feel as if the Nazis have made a resurgence here in this country. The bad guys are winning, and good people do nothing, because they are outgunned and out-manned by bad guys. Thanks, men of Dublin, Ohio, for making our world even worse than it already is. Your greed creates this kind of monster.
11
This is what we see when countries are run by Crime Families.
9
Trump will without a doubt accept the Royal Family's denial in Kashoggi's murder. He doesn't want to have his hotels shut down, or give the impression to the arms industry that they can't continue being the largest global supplier.
5
What about the people of Yemen?
3
Great photo of King Salman and Trump on front-page, Trump seems to be thinking, I don't care how much oil your country has, I'm not holding your hand.
1
@Walter McCarthy
It was a bit hard for Trump to hold he hand of the king standing at least more than a meter away from him. But I bet that he kissed his ring and derriere in private.
3
“We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do, who to be or how to worship,” said Trump to the Saudis. Unfortunately, much Iif Trump's time is spent doing just that.
If the above quote was true, Trump would not be menacing our allies with sanctions on for trading with Iran. Iran's in compliance with the nuclear accord. Trump is not authorized to control U.S. banks or other countries.
Trump's Islam ban, and fomenting distrust of people of color, says, "Being Muslim, or being a person of color, is not the way to "worship" or to "be" in America".
His global tariff application, caused by not understanding the term "trade deficit" vis-à-vis the U.S., is another way of telling other countries what "to do", But, Americans have been the big losers in his misbegotten trade war.
Trump supports voter suppression efforts, reducing Social Security and Medicare, increased taxes for all but the top 1% and low wages for the rest, handily dictating Americas' s future human condition.
His enthusiastic pushing of fossil fuels, while suppressing clean energy efforts says to the world, "You will live in more pollution thanks to the U.S."
It's clear that domination and money, or a pretence to it, are Trump's most highly prized treasures, and that lying is his top skill.
There never was a multi-million dollar
U.S./Saudi arms deal last year. He's protecting this lie, and others, like "better pay" and "lower taxes for all" at the cost of human rights.
12
The first thing Pompeo needs to do -- before he leaves -- is ask for the remains, such as they are.
6
Trump's statement that selling arms to Saudi Arabia surpasses any commitment to fighting dictatorships and totalitarian regimes is at our peril. And the inflammable discourse of Trump to smash any Muslim attitude that may put democracy and security at risk is now completely undermined by his own flatly contradictory discourse.
1
It takes a destroyer of human rights to tolerate another one.
9
No surprises here. This is what the world gets when a minority of US citizens win an election in which they vote to elect a president who is both, a mobster, and also, a gangster!
9
22 days left to the mid-term elections.
Make sure to vote, or be stuck with this low-life of a president, congress, and senate!
7
Donald Trump on the assassination the journalist Khashoggi: Well the Saudi King denies it.
That’s it? Really? Sound familiar? Have we heard anything like this before? Let’s see.
Well, there were bad people on both sides (Trump on white extremist violence in Charlottesville).
Well, he denies that it happened (Trump on Brett Kavanaugh’s denial of sexual abuse of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford).
Well, I asked him directly about election interference and “he was extremely strong and powerful in his denial” (Trump on Vladimir Putin’s denial of Russian interference).
Well, he told me he is committed to giving up his nuclear weapons program (Trump on North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un).
As Ronald Reagan famously said, trust but verify. In this case, there is overwhelming evidence so far NOT to trust. The burden is on the Saudis to come clean about their role in the Khashoggi assassination and face appropriate consequences. Until the Saudis come forward with convincing evidence to the contrary, their denials are nothing more empty statements, and our President needs to say that and act upon it.
7
"their denials are nothing more empty statements, and our President needs to say that and act upon it".
How can a president who makes nothing but empty and unhinged statements call others to the mat? That is the question....
1
Here's what American leadership stands for in today's world: Donald Trump's and Jared kushner's business interests. This is what makes America so noble and exceptional. Democracy schmemocracy!
11
Trump: "We are not here to tell other people how to live, what to do..." (Unless they are in Cuba.)
The New York Times: "What is different is how open Mr. Trump has been in expressing that realpolitik..." That is what makes him an embarrassment to the United States. Other presidents have done the same or worse but this one does it inelegantly.
2
Donald Trump is sounding just like he did when asked about Vladimir Putin killing journalist, the Saudi Prince denies it and Trump says we'll see.
I guess what the is more important than any evidence uncovered, even if Donald Trump listens or watches the actual recorded act, is how much the Saudi Royal family has on Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner.
We know Putin has something over Trump, after all he did all those assassinations, poisonings and killings in other countries, not ours, and I'm sure Trump will come up with some alibi to absolve any moral responsibility to respond; it depends on the bottom line, how much indebt the Trump's and Kushner's are to MBS.
5
Not really a surprise that the leader of the Christian Family Values Party would have no morals or ethics.
The last place I’d look for morals or ethics is in any Christian church in the Republican heartland. Like Trump, those people are dedicated to greed and bigotry. Like Trump, they have no empathy for anyone who isn’t like them.
10
Utterly revolting, and utterly unsurprising. Trump is, after all, someone who openly admires dictators and heaps praise upon them. He also considers the press "the enemy of the people" which is an inexcusable position for a leader of a free nation.
Saudi Arabia, among many of the other nations Trump admires, has no concept of human rights. It is beyond time that they be held accountable by the international community for their atrocities. As for Trump, we need the press to continue to do the excellent job they have in reporting on him, his administration, and their utter lack of integrity and morality. We need to start believing what is right in front of our eyes- Donald Trump is a morally bankrupt human being.
2
Trump, like everyone else in DC, kowtows to the military-industrial complex that Ike warned us about back in 1961. Where's the surprise here?
2
Respect for human rights must be the weapon of choice no matter what the cost. Trillions in tax giveaways to the wealthy and corporations leaves America with less ammunition to use it's moral authority and just weakens us to a point of inaction when action is desperately needed. Republicans have always used breaking the bank as the tactic to claim we need cuts in safety net spending' education, healthcare etc. Now Americans are seeing human rights diminished to a bottom line and with it the hope that our children will not live in an angry and fully armed world.
2
Clearly the president has done some sort of price-value analysis in concluding that one innocent life isn't worth $110 billion in sales. So, my question is simple. What is an innocent life worth to him? Is it $40 billion? $1 billion $1 million?
The only thing we know for certain is that for Donald Trump, everything has a price.
4
What's more ridiculous? The fact that the Saudi's funded and provided material support for 9/11 and wound up being one of the most mammoth recipients of American arms? The fact Trump has conflicts of interest in every direction with the Saudi's most notably through Mr. Kushner's real estate interests? The fact that it's even conceivable a tiny country like SA could leverage our insane appetite for oil, or more probable, our insane need for the world to trade in dollars for oil so the Kingdom must remain the swing producer? The insane complicity of Israel with The Kingdom all things considered? Or the atrocities associated with all wars post 9/11 most notably ISIS in Syria and everything in Yemen in comparison to the murder of one journalist? Or the doom of Climate Change in context to continued dependence? Or the idea that I'm supposed to cheer Shwartzman, Dimon, and Fink post - 2008, QE, and the idea SA will fund redevelopment in the USA? Seriously, give me a break!
4
I'm sure it's not just the defense sales. Saudi Arabia is an ally of Israel. Many people in the administration and the state department are going to urge Trump to ignore the crime or believe the Saudi king. As for the Saudi king I'm sure he has deniability. most likely he wasn't consulted. But his son probably was. in the long run I think this is a very bad thing for Saudi Arabia. The strength of the Saudi government was in the wholesale support of an entire royal family of about 10000 people. But now many of the members of the royal family have been intimidated, arrested, forced to disgorge fortunes, and lost their say in the consensus of government. if the king becomes isolated,... Read Machiavelli's the prince. there are far older books but discuss how kings must rule their countries and what they need to maintain power. this is a relatively new kingdom and I don't think the prince has made a study of how to run kingdoms.
this could go a few ways, perhaps the prince hopes to become king and if he's able to build a consensus, he may maintain power or else he will lose support and eventually be overthrown. Or he might take it into a constitutional monarchy with some kind of governing body outside the Royal Family and a figurehead status like the English have
Why only now have the Democrats decided that we don't want to turn a blind eye to the Saudis' misdoings anymore? How many gay or lesbian Saudis have been jailed, tortured, or executed? What about the retaliation occuring against the women who advocated for the right to drive? What about the unnecessary humanitarian crisis that the Saudis have created in Yemen? I'm all for standing up to human rights abusers, but we all seem to be a little late to the party on this one.
6
People have been complaining about the imprisonment and execution of dissidents in Saudia Arabia for years (particularly the women's rights activists), you don't hear about it because the media doesn't carry it. I've said since 2006 that if we were going to bomb anywhere after 9/11, it should have been Riyadh
1
You lost me at the word Democrats. It is way too late to keep playing the blame game, the deflection game and the whatabout game.
1
I heard that Trump is going to impose a severe punishment on the Saudis, by increasing their room rates at his Washington hotel. He calls it a win-win.
12
Essentially, Trump is saying doing business has nothing to do with human rights. What with sweat shops, grueling, poorly-paid farm labor, a minimum wage workers can barely survive on, lower pay for women than men, working off the books and unpaid internships, the history of US business proves him right.
4
Never forget Marco Rubio endorsed Donald Trump knowing exactly what Trump is. Rubio put party politics over ethics, morality and decency when he endorsed Trump. We should look at Rubio grandstanding about this with a jaundiced eye.
Jared Kushner: back channel to Saudi Arabia....
It's time for Jared Kushner to be chased out of the Trump White House as an advisor. Everything Kushner touches is tainted. He may face indictment for his involvement in the Russia investigation.
This is a guy who's never paid taxes, lied on his security clearance forms, was a NYC slumlord who wasn't above exposing his tenants to toxic chemicals to get them to vacate their leases. Kushner is a cross between a baby gangster and a collaborator with foreign govts. who may have some money to lend him. The level of corruption and stink around Jared Kushner is overwhelming....
6
There's only been one American President that ever bested the Saudi Arabians on human rights.
That was Kennedy, who told them pointblank that he wouldn't deal with them in any way unless they got rid of legal slavery.
In the blink of an eye, slavery was outlawed.
I've seen trump.... and, believe me, trump is no Jack Kennedy.
10
Trump is dealing in REALITY, and simply stating that fact. Other Presidents would hide the truth from their moral high horses, while spouting platitudes and doing essentially exactly what Trump is doing. What's the line from "A Few Good Men"? You can't handle the truth!
3
Just one question. Is this a defense of Trump or a condemnation of everybody else? Because if you are defending Trump you lose any vestige of having an ethical platform for your views.
2
Does that...make it better? That suddenly, because Trump says the quiet part loud, that's it totally fine to ignore a massive violation of human rights and international law?
2
@c smith, the idea that the world is a cesspool, and we need an avatar of the seven deadly sins to "deal with it" will go farther toward sickening our nation and the world than any other single thing. Stop making excuses for evil.
1
"The threat came in response to a promise Mr. Trump had made in an interview on “60 Minutes” to exact “severe punishment” if the Saudis’ complicity in Mr. Khashoggi’s apparent killing is demonstrated." More of Trump's blustering, he's going to do nothing but keep taking money.
5
Remember 9/11 ? 15 of 19 hijacker terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. The 9/11 terrorist plot against America was financed by wealthy Saudis and there are connections to the Saudi Royal Family.
Now, it appears the Royal Family ordered the execution of a journalist critical of the regime. And, this murder happens in a diplomatic compound in a NATO country.
Why does the US consider Saudi Arabia an ally instead of the true evil enemy ? They deserve the harshest possible treatment - cut them off from world financial markets and impose a Cuba style total embargo. Strangle their economy and make them choke.
Meanwhile, Trump is busy insulting American allies and NATO countries while bending over backwards to placate criminal regimes in Russia and North Korea. Oh, forgot....Trump is a criminal too. Makes perfect sense.
4
don the con is willing to sell out the US just as he has sold his own name - purely for profits regardless of the damage it has done to cities, people, or vendors
we cannot let him pimp the US without concern for the hurt, pain, and injustice "the deal" may cause
2
Let's face it, it is NOT the arms sale that Trump cares about, it's his and Jared Kushner's huge personal financial entanglements with the Saudi's.
You know Trump will just dismiss this grizzly torture and murder with his usual reply, "Everybody does it."
12
The WP reporter's purported death and Trump inaction was potentially the cause of Nikki Haley's resignation on Oct. 3rd the day after the disappearance. This would confirm that the US had prior knowledge of potential abduction.
1
President Trump has been FAR tougher on Russia, Iran, China, Saudi Ababia (the ISIS that succeeded) and North Korea -
- among other societal diseases posing as countries -
- than any other recent President, Thank God.
You won't see him flying a planeload of foreign currencies to a violence-based foreign government in the middle of the night as a ranson & tribute payment as the weak Barack Obama did.
(I say that because any leader has to be either criminal, stupid, or weak to have paid that money in that manner to Tehran, & I assume the least troubling option here,)
The ignorant, violent Saudis had the chance to be the West's partners in confronting the constant-war regime in Iran, but their crazy element just couldn't handle it. Some classless dolts you simply work AROUND than with, or through.
1
Man, I suppose I'd be a lot happier about the state of the world today if I were as deluded as you
3
From the other accompanying article, it appears that Mr Trump spoke with the king of Saudi Arabia who denied any knowledge of the disappearance of Mr.Mr. Khashoggi, the Saudi dissident journalist.
The elderly and ailing Salman is not person to ask...Mr Trump should talk to his son, Mohamed Bin Salman. He's the one who knows.
2
Since when does the US allow countries like Saudi Arabia to commit atrocities as long as the US and possibly Donald and Jared are profiting?
3
To the Jewish Community, Is there anything more damning than Trump’s carte Blanche approval of murder of any citizen who is not American? Does it escape anyone, that Trump has sanctioned Khashoggi’s death. Khashoggi was among those called the “enemy of the people”. What people? Tyrants!
To the Christian Community, Now murder is added to greed, fraud, theft, sexual immorality, abuse, cruelty toward his accusers, children of refugees, the poor, the sick. He has justified murder by citing profits. Yet, you embrace and support him?
America is in the grip of a deranged sociopath who has deceived millions and appealed to the greed, fears, and racism and incrementally perverted our government and social norms.
Big Businesses support him because they were handed $1 trillion tax cut, permission to poison the air, water and food, immunity from prosecution, and open season on exploiting human misery sickness and disease.
Is Khashoggi may be a tipping point, but Trump has normalized the disgusting. No one can expect Trump to bow to facts, evidence, or reason. It is our collective duty to restore America’s honor.
6
Trump at his rally's openly call the news media fake.What kind of message did Jared Kushner's BFF took that to mean. Dismembering a body is not appalling to a regime that still beheads people. Trump is about money and always has been Trump is thinking the long game about how he deals with Saudi Arabia. Trump is thinking post White House. Trump ha to be bewildered because when the Mossad lets the world know they assassinated a scientist or arms maker the world does not even blink. I truly believe Trump's base really does not care what happened to the missing man. Will Trump lose any support over reaction to this i doubt it. Trump will send the same FBI that he used to confirm Kavanaugh and we all how that turned out.
1
There’s no proof yet, and the details sound very graphic: a bone saw, killed and dismembered. These are very specific. So it sounds like someone knows something, or it is overblown. But jeopardizing the relationship with the Saudis, a military dictatorship, over the death of one journalist and not over the beheadings of homosexuals in public squares, come on. It sounds like the price of the weapons just went up, and more profit is to be had.
In terms of being a great negotiator, Trump fails. The Saudis have NOT followed thru on their expressed wishes to buy US weapons, missing a deadline on the one contract that is solid. Now, Trump threw away a US negotiating tactic. (Of course, this is only if morality and ethics are ignored in favor of the bottom line.)
Why are we the major weapons seller in the world? Is this in our favor, or are we merely providing future conflicts with more powerful weapons against us? Why do we give the military a pass in making ethical decisions, ie, why do we have active forces in 70% of the world's countries? Are we so committed to military might that we ignore better (and cheaper) solutions?
And, as far as the vaunted American idea of fairness and ethicality....Trump's statements show how very hollow they really are.....if not under other presidencies, certainly under his.
3
What's different about Trump vis-à-vis previous presidents is not merely his crassness in explaining his motivations. It's also the fact that he has vilified and impugned journalists so consistently that his failure to take action against Saudi Arabia for this gruesome act is all the more sinister, not to mention dangerous to our society.
4
Is it me or does anyone else kind of feel that this supposed to be all mankind. We limit it to just the United States. And even in the United States we limit it to white men, born in America. “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….” How great it would be if we actually led that mantra around the world, protecting all people, no matter their color, race, religious beliefs or sexual orientation? We don’t really stand for that, at the risk of our own interests, do we? Not really even here in the US. Sounds great, but Trump, nor Obama, really prioritized this. Carter did and we basically laughed at him. He had the courage to extend this around the world and we said he was a weak President.
3
For many years I listened to the valiant Mike Malloy's radio program nightly—I came to the campfire.
Malloy has always proffered this simple, sterling maxim:
Profit before people = Death.
He's right.
2
The White House just announced that they were sending the Secretary if State for a meeting with the Saudis. This is a good move on the part of the Administration. I hope the meeting will be scheduled to take place at the Saudi Embassy in Turkey. It should be a media frenzy. We can all watch and wait and see if Secretary Pompeo makes it back out of the building there.
2
@WATSON It's cover.
America under Trump is losing the image of world leadership which previous American leaders had worked so hard to build. While the world cries for justice of a murdered journalist, Trump seems to have sold himself to Saudi Arabia for a few billions. The response to emerging crisis is antithetical to America as a nation and its values.
6
I would argue that it was our ideals that made America great from the start. I acknowledge that wealth and power cause more people to pay attention to your ideals, but if you don't have firm basis of ideals than all the wealth doesn't matter except to the sycophants.
Is it not ironic that those who were most influential in the world and we hold up for remembrance and reverence such as Christ held little or no wealth and did not seek commercial gain? Yet their followers worship those that worship worldly wealth and material possessions above all.
2
@Marie, but we know they aren't their followers. They deceive themselves to think such a clearly false thing as that.
2
Why so much worry over American jobs, anyway? Isn’t Trump crowing about the lowest unemployment figures in 30 years? Whom does he hope to employ with this largely apocryphal arms deal, the last 3.7%?
1
And Trump would fit in with the Ferengi of the Star Trek world: "There is nothing beyond greed. Greed is the purest, most noble of emotions." Finally, the 10th Rule of Acquisition states that "greed is eternal."
3
There it is, folks, for all to see.
The United States of America is the most warlike nation on the planet.
We make Iran and Syria look like dust in our wind.
We are in the grip of an Iron Fist.
The things we make and provide to ourselves and the rest of the world that actually benefit us are far outweighed by the "methods of warfare" that we market that do nothing but bring destruction and misery so
we can swoop in, take charge, make things right (for a price, by the way) for US, not THEM.
Nothing but an absolute disaster, affecting everyone, including the military industrial complex, will change that. Millions of Americans will have to die to bring us to our senses.
Please! Give me another option!
4
Trump has spoken with admiration of dictators who have dissidents, political rivals, even their own family members killed, in order to get and keep power. He says they "know how to get things done." It's the methods of violence in their efficacy that he likes. Trump has turned crowd after crowd, thousands at a time, to roar against and hate journalists covering his rallies. They're "terrible people," liars, and so on, without any concern that they'll be attacked as a result of his incitements. And there's more that pretty well indicates that Trump would be quite unlikely to mind his Saudi friends' foul deed. It doesn't seem foul to him.
4
At the risk of giving the man ideas, I wouldn't surprise me if Trump decides to invade Saudi Arabia and confiscate it's oil as a spoil of war.
2
@Marcus Aurelius - You're belief is based upon Trump's well-known reputation for loyalty to an ally?
@Scott J.
He may, despite the fact that the same tactic failed dramatically in Iraq and has failed in the Middle East since oil was discovered. But, win or lose, weapons manufacturer's, their shareholders and cronies make billions and that seems to be Team Trump's m.o.. Human life is merely product – asset/liability to such agendas – eminently expendable in pursuit of profit.
Are we a nation of laws with a foreign policy where democratic value and human rights matter, or are we strictly a mercenary nation where the only consideration is the almighty buck? This is the test we face following the brutal assassination, very likely at the behest of the Saudi Government, of a Saudi journalist who lived in the U.S. and wrote for the Washington Post.
So far, our President’s reaction to this horrific incident has been wholly inadequate and shameful. His reaction amounted to little more than an economic cost-benefit analysis, arguing that the incident is regrettable but we do tons of business with the Saudis and we are not about to give up $100 billion in arms sales to them under any circumstances. This reflects not only a morally bankrupt policy but one that undermines our values as leader of the free world. It also undercuts our ability to negotiate with the Saudis by giving up our greatest lever with them (arms sales) without demanding any concessions in return. It turns out once again that our President is the worst negotiator, not the great dealmaker he pretends to be.
In contrast to Trump, the big banks and hedge funds have gotten it right. Dimon, Finkelstein and Schwartzman all acted quickly in support of human rights when they pulled their companies out of the upcoming investment conference in Saudi Arabia, dubbed “Davis in the Dessert.” That is a good start. The President should take a lesson from their playbook.
91
Reagan said to the Soviet Union tear down that wall. Trump said to Kim, we will protect you and make you very rich if you give up your nukes.
More than 60 Percent of our military operations are now run by private contractors. Many of them also work for Saudi Arabia and other autocratic dictatorships who buy US weapons.
Sadly the answer to your rhetorical question is we are a mercenary nation.
1
@Jeffrey Zuckerman For trump, money is all that counts, not any shred of decency for people. he thinks he can run our country like his trump business........a dictator who at his whim fires his detractors.
@Jeffrey Zuckerman
" Dimon, Finkelstein and Schwartzman all acted quickly in support of human rights when they pulled their companies out of the upcoming investment conference in Saudi Arabia, dubbed “Davis in the Dessert.” That is a good start. "
This is just window dressing for the Wall St crooks. They are doing ALL their deals with SA as usual. Personal profit 1st , 2nd , 3rd and nothing else counts.
As much as I dislike Trump’s policies, world view, and general style as a statesman I must ask the following: When was the last time the United States REALLY took a meaningful stance on a human rights issue with Saudi Arabia and tried to exact any type of punishment or economic / political push-back against the Kingdom? Is Trump’s current posture really so much worse than the “community standard” the US has been following for decades? Sure...this is the worst crisis in US - Saudi relations since 9/11 after which, little or nothing happened. Sure, the US quietly removed bases from the Kingdom...one of Bin Laden’s key demands in the first place...but little else. Saudi wrote us a big check with “sorry but not our fault” note attached and went on to continue aggressively promoting Wahhabism throughout the 3rd world, beheading people and jailing women for driving. The US has relied on Saudi to keep worldwide oil prices nominally low and as a key creditor for over 30 years and every administration seems to have its briefly awkward “hold hands with the king and kiss the ring” photo op moment after which life goes back to “normal”. I doubt this time will be any different.
31
@Woodson Dart Can't you see that this is different? This isn't some group with murky ties to the Saudi government. This is the Saudi government executing an American resident on our NATO ally Turkey's soil.
Trump, of course, didn't care that Putin ordered an assassination on the soil of our English ally.
Do you?
1
And we in turn created "jobs" for the 15 men who did the grisly task in the Saudi compound in Istanbul. Looming in this whole equation are the unanswered concerns for Saudi involvement in 9/11.
3
The problem is that not everything is money.The US must give a better face.
1
Kashoggi was not a civil rights leader in Saudi Arabia. For many years he faithfully supported the Saudi Government, and said nothing about their executions etc. He even had offices in the Saudi government.
Recently he got angry over some domestic actions and wrote negative articles for ths Suadi Press. Things got hot and he left Saudi Arabia and took up residence in the US and Turkay.
He was never a US Citizen and I believe it is up to Saudi Arabia to deal with its own citizens in their own way.
We have known how Saudi's punish their own citizen for decades. So we should not stop arm sales to the Saudi based on what we suspect has happened to Kashoggi.
The Saudi Crown Prince understands Trump and knows he won't do anything for a mere dismembered journalist. The Prince holds too many cards that Trump (and Kushner) value. Oil, middle east relations, anti Iran, loans or investments to Kushner, arms purchases. Trump will find reasons to prevaricate.
1
Is the European Union imposing sanctions on Saudi Arabia ?
2
"Mr. Rubio said it was important for the United States to have the moral authority to criticize autocrats…"
Bwa Ha Ha! Moral authority, eh? See US military actions since 1900 (partial list and exclusive of covert CIA wars): Nicaragua, Honduras, Cuba, Mexico, Haiti, China, Dutch Guiana, Korea, Viet Nam, Lebanon, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Iran, Libya, Lebanon, Grenada, Bolivia, Colombia, Philippines, Iraq, Bosnia, Somalia, ad nauseum, ad infitum - all for keeping the "peace" and advancing democracy, of course.
We have been doing battle with other (mostly, smaller, weaker) countries virtually continuously since 1776. "Moral authority" Bwa Ha Ha!
7
I agree with the gist of what you are saying but must say that the more history I read that touches on human rights struggles, the more I am amazed at the importance the “strugglers” place on vigorous statements of support...even ones that seem hypocritical when you scratch the surface.
Even non-binding agreements and actions that appear on the face to run counter to a country’s core practices can help validate and provide exposure to a worthy cause, especially when strategically timed.
To those who think we should run the government like a business, here you go! Enjoy!
4
Trump knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Imagine his fury if he or Ivanka were kidnapped by terrorists and the US government responded in a similar manner as he has to Saudi Arabia.
3
The Con Don's "bargain" was only a letter of agreement. Nothing binding about it. But they weren't trying to strike a "bargain". They, along with Putin, Netanyahu, Kim, Erdogan, Duerte, Sisi, all the other supposed "strong" men who are buying/stealing power around the world - and their minions like the Japanese and South Korean prime ministers - want a good old-fashioned World War, backed by their good old religions.
The article says, "He (The Con Don) would not lecture them about human rights, and they would buy plenty of American weapons and military hardware."
He has been making weapons/arms deals around the world. Human rights? What are those? Morals and ethics? What are those? Social Conscience? What is that?
No, these good old boys are playing by the good old boy, good old religion rules that make up the male model of fear-anger-hate-Lies,Lies,Lies- WAR - death-destruction-rape-pillage-plunder that has driven their HIStory.
Sorry, boys and girls who support them. We are done with your destructive playbook. WE THE PEOPLE will not let you destroy OUR lives and those of our children, grandchildren and future generations again in your stupid lust for power.
Not now. Not ever.
6
So national security interest justify getting into bed with murderous autocrats … pleasant dreams.
2
The Saudis sent 15 assassins to murder Jamal Ahmad Khashoggi and 15 terrorists on 9\11 were Saudis. Is this a coincidence?
6
I hope I am missing some facts, but can someone explain to me why the president did what he could about the preacher in Turkey while completely ignoring a journalist named Khashoggi?
Please give me a better reason that what looks kinda obvious.
4
In the Trump family, greed conquers ethics, emphathy, decency and morality every time. Trump made it clear from the start that he would use the White House to enhance his businesses and his fortune. Ditto for Kushner, who desperately need a bailout for his underwater Manhattan property. Ditto for Ivanka, who got a lot of trademark licenses from the Chinese before daddy started a trade war. Ditto for Pompeo, whose foreign policy decisions hinge on arms sales. Ditto for Ross, whose stock portfolio was considerably enhanced by insider trading. Ditto for Mnuchin, whose money-grubbing wife is as bad as he is. Dittto.....Need I go on?
6
As with all fascist governments, the only moral compass points to preserving the ruler---both their rule and their money---that is who we now have living in the White House.
4
Our president has no moral bearing. He is simply a sleazy businessman and those who continue to support his immoral behavior in Congress and in the public forum are likewise bereft of moral values. .How low America has sunk!
8
Trump is subhuman. His supporters, at either the surface level or the visceral level, are the same, with even less (if it's possible) intelligence, dignity, decency or self-control.
Between the two levels of "trumps" lies the criminal level of the Republican Party leadership, in it for the money.
What an incredibly foul excrescence. The stench is oppressive.
11
@Remember in November
OH! So THAT's why Hillary won, eh?
Were she president, would we even have an embassy in Israel now? Would she have sold a couple of U.S. bases overseas to the Chinese or Iranian governments?
Would there be any uranium left in North America?
Think about how little we'd know about the criminal activities of several Justice Depratment and FBI figures promoting her candidacy and covering up her actions had she won. It would be a Kremlin wall of silence.
Does anyone over the ago of 10 think that 'human rights' would ever win out over money in this fetid swamp called the Trump Administration.
Haven't we learned yet to ignore the bluster of this arch con-man?
7
Trump has called journalists "the enemy of the people."
Trump has deep personal financial ties to Saudi Arabia.
A journalist is murdered by Saudi Arabia.
No one is surprised. Trump has no morality, no humanity. To him one this is clear: money over people every time.
17
Going to other countries to execute those who disagree with your polices sounds familiar. Nerve agents is Salisbury? Iran nuclear scientists keep blowing up. Jong-un’s brother in Malaysia. Predator drones armed with Hellfire missiles anyone? Autonomous weapons already exist. This horror will continue as long as all nations willingly participate.
2
We should limit arms sales because a journalist was murdered?
Given that the point of arms sales is to enable efficient mass killing there is something very wrong with the author's thinking here.
2
Suddenly, everyone’s so concerned about the bottomline when the news cycle about Trump’s sanctions over Turkey for the evangelising pastor isn’t even over yet.
So here’s some political incorrectness (which people only cheer for when not directed against themselves): spineless hypocrites.
"Egypt and Saudi Arabia are both important partners of the United States in regional issues, particularly the fight against terrorism." Yes, brutal dictators are a necessary evil. They keep a lid on the murderous intentions of their religiously rabid populations. Give them just enough weaponry to fight among themselves while we benefit by keeping access to all that oil. Makes you proud to be an American, doesn't it?
5
Saudi's have a great deal of leverage.....they would be better off being friends with Russia, China and India.
2
The REAL Bottom Line : What's in it for the Trump Brand ???
NOTHING else matters.
18
We shouldn't be selling weapons to dictators period. Our military is paid for by US taxpayers and is for the defense of the USA.
Saudi Arabia is the largest exporter of international terrorism in the world. The President bombed Syrian runways when they killed women and children with Chemical weapons. The Saudi's are killing women and children in Yemen with US weapons and US personal who are helping them use those weapons.
The President and his chief ME advisory Kushner don't even pay taxes that go to our national defense and border control. They should not be making these decisions.
3
Technically the government doesn’t sell weapons, the only give permission. The private companies sell the weapons for profit, to the US and other countries. But I see your point.
Congratulations America you wanted to run to the country like a business, well it's now being run like a Trump casino.
Were you expecting anything different from a man who stopped attending funerals for out war dead because "he doesn't like it, it's a terrible thing" or denigrating an American patriot like John McCain all the way to his death bed?
Even economically Trump is either a rube or in the bag, giving away trillions of tax dollars to the one percent, but thinking $110 billion from Saudis is a lot of money. Our biggest oil importer is Canada, yet Trump declared them a national threat.
We lose on moral grounds and we lose economically, just like a Trump casino.
#MAGA
8
No. Leave the Saudi's alone, they are too important. Save the moral indignation for matters that are germain to US.
This death is indeed a moral outrage, however, it is not our problem. Let the European's be outraged, I am not.
1
Let me see if understand. If Trump does nothing about the killing but says the reason is national security, not arms sales, that would be ok? Then he would be acting within the "norms" set by other Presidents. My guess is MBS buys the Thaad this week and the whole affair will be quickly swept down the memory hole shortly after kickoff next Sunday.
2
Will America cower to the might of an oil rich, but otherwise socially and economically backward third world country simply because of the chance of losing billions to China or Russia? Donald Trump is doing everything in his power to destroy any remaining morality in our nation and turn America into a third world country of sleazy business dealings. Surely we are more than just profits. Or are we?
The world and the U.S. remained silent when Canada bravely stood up for human rights and condemned Saudi Arabia for treatment of women and improper treatment of activists in the country.
Saudi Arabia chose to punish Canada businesses, posted threats towards the CN Tower and remove Canadian nationals from the country. And again, no country supported our stance.
Now, everyone cares about activists and treatment of people in Saudi Arabia because the bank account is affected. It is clear where the core values of those nations' leaders lie.
13
These are the kinds of incidents and events that were set up when the Republicans--and this country--allowed Trump to assume the presidency under his rules--no tax returns, free mixing of business profits and governing, demonizing of free press and any opposition to his views, campaigning on taxpayer funds practically from day one, blatant corruption in his cabinet and GOP Congress and, of course, non-stop dishonesty and lying on a daily epic scale. The media has done its best to normalize this. The Republicans strongly support Trump and everything he does. The Democrats cannot get their act together to even verbally oppose anything going on. So, it makes sense that disappearances and possibly murders of fake news types by Trump business partners are going to happen. This is the just the first occurence that we know about. If Trump and the GOP continue on this path--there will be many more.
3
History proves Trump is right. In 1956 the US was friends with President Naser of Egypt and bailed him in a war against Israel, UK, and France. A few years later the US abandoned over his pathetic human rights record. President Sadat an interview quoted Naser saying, "I did not abandon the US, they abandoned me." The situation today is nearly identical.
What happened, is that Nasser turned with an entourage of small countries towards the Soviet Union. The Soviets supplied him with weapons and his appalling attacks on dissidents worsened. This eventually lead to the 1967 war, as well as many problems that the middle east still suffer from.
MBS is a thug, but throwing him under the bus, will simply make Saudi Arabia a Russian client state, like Syria. Incidentally, the entire Syrian crisis could have been avoided if we accepted the facts now on the ground earlier on.
Middle East rulers are butchers, not boy scouts, expecting otherwise is naive.
1
What line would have to be crossed to get Trump to take action instead of looking the other way, or isn't there one? We can see it's not the murder and dismemberment of a man who did nothing more than write newspaper articles. That was the crime for which he was executed. Does Trump think Khashoggi deserved to die? Would he behave differently if Khashoggi was a businessman or consultant of some kind? Is Trump's antipathy toward journalists affecting his handling of this event?
1
@Ms. Pea: The line with Trump lies with damage to his personal financial interests. Nothing else matters.
2
Donald isn't making the jobs argument because it's any better than a national security argument. He's making it because it's the only thing he understands. It's simplistic and amoral, just like him. It's also impossible to know how much his refusal to divest from his business interests influences his decision making process at a time like this. It would be interesting to know just how much he and Jared Kushner have benefited from Saudi investments in recent years. I hope the Times and others can investigate just what those ties are just how much they are worth.
That Trump should prioritize an economic "win" over human rights should surprise nobody, as he is a poster boy nihilist. Isn't this also a prime example of why the framers included the Emoluments Clause? Saudi delegations have padded the bottom line in several Trump hotels.
5
Saudi law, practice and punishment is radically different than the West... there is no Saudi "Bill Of Rights" and events have shown that ill will against the Royal House can be met with severe actions.. it would be best for the US -- in this matter
to mind it's own business...
This is simple. If we in the USA have true moral underpinnings then we must support them. If we do not then we are lost. It is not worth billions of dollars and see people killed individually or en mass as in Yamen. We can an must move on beyond these situations in support of a progressive World. If our Congressional representatives cannot act properly, then we must remove them. DJM
1
If we don’t sell weapons and other military equipment to the Saudis, the Chinese and the Japanese and the EU and others (probably the Russians) will gladly do so.
"Mr. Trump’s package essentially consisted of letters of intent or interest, not actual contracts, and the possible deals began in the Obama administration, when the Saudis bought $112 billion in aircraft, missiles and other military equipment over eight years.
Seventeen months later, the Trump arms bonanza still has not materialized. The kingdom has not bought any new arms platform during the Trump administration, noted Bruce Riedel, a former C.I.A. official and a Saudi expert at the Brookings Institution who advised the Obama administration on Middle East policy."
So, it was Obama that started all this. Yet Trump is somehow painted as the morally corrupt Sasquatch.
Why even say that Trump's response is not a major surprise?
Is that the narrative to push given what this President has wrought?
Journalism must do better!
The lede should not have been that this is not a major surprise.
The lede should question how craven and irresponsible it is for an American President to say to the world that killing journalists so brutally gives him no pause.
To make the point of the article that this is no surprise, gives the whiff of endorsing the President's stance, or excusing it.
Instead of excusing him for it, we need to point out with clarity, the immorality in pushing a phantom pay day for weaponry of mass destruction while implicitly excusing the murder of journalists.
What is more important to democratic principles and humanity?
Uncompromising journalism or allowing the Saudis to buy a corrupt President's silence?
How about a different headline: In Trump's Saudi Bargain, Death to Journalists is Preferred?
3
@Tony Glover I agree. The line about "no surprise" was disturbing, to say the least.
1
If Marco Rubio is serious, he needs to demand immediate hearings in the Senate. These hearings should call Jared Kushner to testify about his business dealings with Saudi Arabia and should include all the relevant financial records from Kushner and his company. Kushner is effectively the US official dealing with Saudi Arabia and any conflicts of interest should be discovered.
160
@Bruce A You could have stopped at “If Marco Rubio is serious.” He isn’t and he won’t (call for hearings).
1
People say the Russians may have something on Trump; the Saudis may also. Trump bowed to the Saudi king, and promised billion sin an arms deal. So, the Saudis in turn, could go after those who are against the royal family, and those who are not Sunni Muslims.
As for Trump, and human rights, he is putting illegal immigrant children in concentration camps. At the same time separating from their parents, in other concentration camps. Let's not call them the polite term "internment camps". These are places of punishment, targeted against an ethic group.
As for Congress, most of the GOP, doe snot care, as long as they hold on to power. If they can approve a sexual predator for the Supreme Court, and allow for concentration camps; they do not care about human rights. They just care about the flow of money and power. In this case, defense contractors want their billions. And, the energy industry doe snot want to upset the Saudis, as it will send oil prices flying upwards; nether does Wall Street.
It is a rite of passage for presidents to bow to the Saudis, because of OPEC. But, unlike previous presidents, Trump doe snot care about human rights. No dictator does. Not the Saudi Royal Family, not Putin, not Xi, not Erdogan and not Trump.
16
Keep those hotel rooms full (with Saudi money)!
6
@pjd that's why our wise founders made emoluments illegal
1
Hasn't Trump given clear signals throughout his life that he can be counted on to put profit over moral principle? The Saudis know what the deal is with this guy: it's The Deal. Now that he is in the White House, it is all dressed up as Make America Great Again, in this case by turning over a journalist to body hackers [no big deal] in return for securing some big business deals from a corrupt regime. Must be that the "supernatural wisdom" wished upon him recently already has settled in?
5
When you have an immoral (forget the "amoral") sociopathic man suffering from the anti-personality disorder of massive narcissism, it's MAGA--Money As Greatness Always--24/7. Donald Trump suffers from an absence of empathy that allows him to dehumanize and dismiss Mr. Khashoggi by saying, "It's not a U.S. citizen" when, in fact Khashoggi was a U.S. resident working as "an enemy of the people" for the "fake news" Washington Post. His narcissistic need for grandiosity, his superiority, is centered on his wealth and like the Russians the Saudis have been large contributors. The calculus is as simplistic as it is cruel and heartless. And, it may even extend to preventing the CIA from their "duty to warn" Khashoggi, as a U.S. resident, that the Saudis were plotting to "detain" him. It's unlikely that the feckless and enabling U.S. Senate will do anything unless the world actually sees the hideous videotapes the Turks claim to possess.
15
An amoral president holding an amoral position. How predictable.
10
I agree with this decision. Take advantage of the Sunni / Shiite schism. To be fair and balanced offer Iran the same package.
The only other deal in the works should be to build a huge cyber / drone base in the Holman heights to counter all Sunni and Shiite driven activity aimed at Isrsel. Triangulate.
Aside from killing an American journalist, we shouldn't deal with this nation who in supporting a war on Yemen, & whose inhumanity is well known (plus, a majority of the 9/11 Saudi perpetrators).
Wikipedia (Saudi Arabia):
"Capital & physical punishmentssuch as beheading, stoning (to death), amputation, crucifixion & lashing. Death penalty imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft & sorcery and carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad, followed by crucifixion. Repeated theft can be punishable by amputation of the right hand. Homosexual acts are punishable by flogging or death. Atheism or "calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based" is considered a terrorist crime. Lashings are a common form of punishment and are often imposed for offences against religion & public morality such as drinking alcohol and neglect of prayer and fasting obligations. Retaliatory punishments: an eye can be surgically removed at the insistence of a victim who lost his own eye. Families of someone unlawfully killed can choose between demanding the death penalty or granting clemency in return for a payment blood money." (edited for space).
So the ONLY reason to be cozy with MBS is $$. Let's stop having major deals be war related. If Trump REALLY wants America GREAT, concentrate on building OUR economy.
Infrastructure, sustainable energy, etc.
VOTE!
13
When America elected as POTUS an amoral businessman, who had early in life learned how to do what was best for his own bottom line rather than what was best for everyone concerned, we dropped any pretense of being an 'exceptional' country. I understand how fat cats are profiting by supporting the Republican party tax plan and the immoral acts of the Trump administration, but it is difficult to see how True Christians can support the amoral/immoral positions our government has taken during this Republican majority Congress and Trump's business-first administration.
Surely there is more to Christians' beliefs than the arguments against abortion. What about Christian charity? What about caring for the old, the ill and the young who are unable to care for themselves? Satan has taken over the Kingdom of Heaven and is whispering in Donald Trump's ear. When will Christian Conservatives wake up and realize that they are supporting the Devil. This is no way to make America great again.
19
I have two points:
1. The transactional approach is limited. You can only get so far with it as a strategy.
2. I hope the next congress will investigate the connections between Trump's businesses and Saudi Arabia. Something stinks.
9
This is the price America pays for putting money ahead of any thought of human rights. When greed TRUMP`S humanity; this is the result. He has made his deal with the devil a long time ago. The rest of the U.S. can once again turn a blind eye to this sickening spectacle; or you can remember what the American Revolution was supposed to be in 1776. You know; put an end to tyranny and proclaim Freedom of individuals to live a life without threat of punishment from any King. Where did that all disappear to?
23
The murder and dismemberment of a dissident journalist is supposed to provoke outrage from Trump?? Have you been paying attention? This is the very thing we wishes he could do most. I’m sure he’s green with jealousy that his Saudi and Russian BFFs get to do this with impunity.
7
Can't wait until there's a Democratic House again so they can start looking at the Trump families financial ties to Saudi Arabia among other questionable personal financial gains as it's obvious this Republican Congress has abdicated it's oversight responsibilities in the hopes of riding Trump's coat tales for reelection.
33
Can someone please focus also on the women and clerics who have been sentenced to prison and the woman who has been given a death sentence -- all simply for being part of the opposition to the regime in Saudi Arabia or struggling for women's rights. And what about all of those "mistaken" civilian deaths in Yemen, and the blockade-induced starvation? Do those mean nothing to us? Apparently so, because the Media hasn't really made them more than a blip in coverage. Why does it take the murder of a US based journalist to "horrify" Americans and galvanize Congress? When are we going to admit who we are by what we are tolerating in other countries?
26
In 1990, when George HW Bush was in office he refused to ‘call out’ China for their human rights abuses, due to business concerns, resulting in an unrestrained China, and the inequitable position we now have. Trump is making the same error.
16
@Bruce Egert
It was Clinton with help from Gore who gave China Favored Nation Status.
It was GWB who signed the permanent proclamation of MFN for China 2001.
Well, doesn't he just leave us all swinging in the wind? I hate the man with a passion, can't stand to look at his face, or heaven forbid to listen to a single thing he tries to say, but in this instance he is showing us the face of hypocrisy we all wear when we pretend we know nothing at all about the price that has to be paid by someone for the riches we enjoy.
This is the way the world works and we need to own that. Or change it. Sitting on high horses and proclaim what? That lip service be paid to proper decorum? That killings be done in a more discreet manner, our plausible deniability intact? That's not changing a thing. The wheels of commerce upon which we base our wealth and sense of superiority must continue to grind.
Daniel Langois in Fisherman's Daughter:
"God's anger broke through the clouds
and He spilt the cargo for all to see -
The fault of the sailor,
the fault of he who asks no questions
about the cargo he is carrying."
82
@Memi von Gaza What example do you have that we have accepted this kind of murder as long as it's "in a more discreet manner."
You need to provide examples or be dismissed.
How sad that America is dependent on military hardware and Roundup-ready (glyphosate poisoned) soybeans for our vital national exports. Aside from Trump's blatant dismissal of Khashoggi's horrific murder, which is obviously meant to further his plans for Saudi money to fight Iran and tempt Palestine to give over their land; he is demonstrating to the non-violent people of the world that our values are doomed by the pursuit of wealth and hence naked power.
This has been shown clearly by our wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, and now Yemen. Gandhi and Martin Luther King inspired many to work toward a non-violent world, but the flame they lit burns low when ideologies clash and men seek to dominate their neighbors.
Americans are getting a lesson in realpolitik (the zero-sum law of the jungle) through the murder of this journalist which is meant to frighten all journalists who criticize the powers that be. Hopefully the religionists and humanitarians among us will continue to speak their truth to immoral power until we have a more moral world.
103
I would not be so sure that this is all about defense contracts. Remember, wonder boy Jared and his precarious empire were in dire need of cash a couple years ago. And Cantaloupe Caligula can't get a loan from a bank either.
Perhaps the Saudis sovereign wealth fund might call in a debt or two were tinpot Donnie to raise a ruckus.
1
We are about a week into this story of an alleged murder by Saudi Arabia of one of their citizens and already it's headline news with the expected criticism of Trump. What nonsense. If we decide our new policy is to take out our economic sanction hammer every time a nation we do business with does something we don't like we'd be fools. But since it's Trump in this instance we relish the opportunity to criticize him for favoring the "bottom line".
15
@Charlie I don't think you grasp the severity of the Saudi move to murder a dissident as it claims to be instituting reforms; nor what it reveals about the dark side of the regime, a regime, you might remember, whose citizens also were involved in the events of 9/11, a regime responsible for killing Yemeni civilians and creating a humanitarian crisis in that country. There is a problem with taking the moral high ground only when it's convenient.
7
@Charlie Hey Charlie, we're talking about leadership. There are many ways a more wily president could have dithered, only Trump makes it completely crass and reflects an absence of leadership (again) as he did in the Skripal poisoning in England. He's not just destroying the myth of American morality overseas, he is tromping on it here.
1
@Charlie
Abortion is bad, but execution and dismemberment is all about business.
1
We cannot put profit before our commitment to human rights. To do so keeps the global swamp in power. This pathway to global self destruction by an intentional moral lapse must come to an end if there is going to be a better way to live on Earth for everyone.
Bullies, despots and tyrants must not be allowed to act with impunity. Jobs come and go. A position of strength is ours to take if we do the right thing by denying the Saudi Kingdom a pass on this killing. If not, we become a stooge for money. Let's develop more R & D, better technologies for climate change, a more robust engineering for infrastructure. We can build jobs and we can build our own destiny without the Saudis. Where do we get the money? By building great trade relationships, knocking down barriers to trade, invest in our infrastructure and clean enviromnent technologies, working with countries that also have a human rights spine, reduce military spending enough to jump start a clean, sane and healthy future. There is no grey area to this decision to dump Saudi Arabia.
145
@Leslie Duval There is no commitment to "human rights". If there were no dealing with North Korea and just put up with them being a nuclear power. Obama would never worked with Iran since they are much worse. No dealing or buying stuff from China either as they tend to eliminate their opponents. I could go on but since it is only bad when Trump does it why bother.
2
@Leslie Duval
Don't forget which administration is in power. It has no concern for anyone's human rights - Puerto Ricans displaced by Maria, children in detention in Texas just to name a few.
2
@vulcanalex
Yes, it's a long history of our misguided behavior. It DOES matter how we collectively respond. To give up is making it easier for these brutes to continue. We have let big money decide our pathway. Now its time for the vast majority of us to make our contempt for what was done in the past known.
It's time to get off the couch, learn about Universal Jurisdiction that has been working to bring global justice to human rights violations since the Eichmann trials. Your vote DOES matter. Just as important, we can build a collective vision of a healthy, prosperous, kind and moral life if we learn about what is being done here and globally to promote human rights, support it and invest in those businesses that support it also.
Of course this president uses logic and being truthful. It would be idiotic to allow one incident to destroy a relationship that should be beneficial to both parties. In addition it makes little to no sense, if they wanted him dead there were many other options that could not easily be traced back to them. Looks more like someone set this up to cause issues, rather than the Saudi's being responsible. Not that I have the final say.
2
One incident? Where have you been? What about 9/11? What about Yemen? This is a test by Saudi Arabia to see how much open butchery Trump will tolerate.
1
@vulcanalex-If you discount the fact that the Saudi's are the largest exporter of Islamic terrorism in the world you have a point.
2
You cherry picked your quote from senator Rubio.
On Meet The Press he also said that there was a justification for allowing the arms sale to continue. Doing so meant the Saudis would remain dependent on the US for replacement parts, training and other related issues.
Your description of the US Saudi relationship under Obama, who famously bowed before the Saudi King, similarity cherry picked facts.
And where was the outrage from congress and Mr Obama when the Saudis were conducting public beheadings, stoning women and killing homosexuals? Why were there not “unanimous, swift and deep responses” then?
Does congress value journalists lives more than anyone else’s or is there more to this than is being reported?
This evil, gruesome murder must trigger the strongest reaction from the democratic West.
Shut down oil purchases from the Saudis. Total embargo! Let the Saudi Oil Spigot not corrupt all that civilization is fighting for: Human Rights, We The People!
Let the House of Saud rot in their own medieval evil imbecility, while encouraging its country citizens to reform and transition to democracy. To do otherwise is to let the brutal execution of Jamal Kashoggi go completely unpunished and the West to bow, in effect, to the Mighty Saudi Oil Spigot! That would be unconscionable! The West must not squander this chance to help rid the Middle East of Saudi tyranny, a human scourge really, for to call it something else is to be utter hypocritical!
4
In listening to Leslie Stahl's interview with Trump, Trump's
dishonest, deceitful and deceptive answers were all too
apparent.
Niebuhr must be turning over in his grave. Trump is truly
a child of darkness.
22
Ok it’s about the money... for who?
6
Why is it a shock that the current occupant of the White House is choosing money over morals, that is what he has done all his life. And that is what 63 million Americans voted for--money over morals.
40
@JCH
What continues to shock me is the real story... Congress using this as a blind while they rip apart all that makes this country a place I want to live.
2
Who said what:
"Give him something shiny and gold and he's ours for the taking."
"Wow, these robes are fantastic! I can knock them off in a sweat shop and sell them in Chelsea as high fashion."
"I miss the Dallas Country Club. Running a big oil company was more fun."
"I'm hopeful one of these guys will marry me once I'm free from the old ball and chain."
4
Unfortunately, boot licking the Saudi royals is a bi-partisan affair. Eisenhower’s warnings of the dangers of the military/industrial complex still ring true. Or is the ringing in my ears from the sound if the bone saw?
5
"After Egypt’s military overthrew its elected president in 2013, Mr. Obama skirted a law requiring the halt of military aid to countries that experience a coup by refusing to declare whether the situation in Cairo amounted to one."
Is it not all about semantics?
Why is it that the NYT castigates Trump, yet finds excuses for Obama? Do you not think this is a cause of the divisiveness in this country?
How about some fair and honest reporting or analysis? You know, "All the News That is Fit to Print". Or, you do not do that anymore?
2
@bsb But that's exactly why they mentioned Egypt and Obama. They called this an analysis (and not news reporting) for a reason.
Oh, the irony of getting in a tizzy over a foreign journalist when freedom of speech at home is threatened by the White House.
4
Mister Trump is too shallow, egoistic, self-centered and greedy to be an effective president.
Those individuals cannot solve the problems but only create them.
Nobody asked him to go to an all-out war over the murdered journalist but he should stop doing business with the killers.
That’s the basic human decency and morality.
The really smart and capable president would finally explain to the world that starting the Great War (these days better known as the WWI) over a single murdered prince was extremely stupid and undiplomatic human behavior too.
However, hanging out with the terrorists and arming them is equally stupid kind of behavior.
It is even more delusional to believe that Trump reinvigorated the US economy. Everybody in this world is capable of spending the money. Paying the bills and balancing the federal budgets is completely different kind of achievement.
Creating the bubble is the very easy part of job. Cleaning up the mess afterwards is the tough part!
Donald Trump is just unable to think about any problem form the long-term perspective.
The really bad part is that his policies are identical to the actions of the Obama Administration.
All their guiding principles are the same! The window dressing curtains don’t matter to the smart people!
A waste of time to question Trump's attitude and actions here. It should be abundantly clear by now that Trump and his family have no regard for human rights, the plight of the downtrodden, social justice or ethical and moral issues - ask the people of Puerto Rico, the desert children, the abandoned victims of Yemen - to cite a few instances. After watching Leslie Stahl interview POTUS last evening on 60 Minutes one would find it hard to come up with anything intelligible or thoughtful that come out of his mouth, the same old rants of all he has done, how bad Obama was/is, and the ubiquitous definitive comments he couldn't or wouldn't verify. Appalling and disgraceful that he represents this Country.
30
Vote blue... we need leadership.
9
trump is exactly what Dwight Eisenhower, a Republican, was warning us against when Eisenhower said, Beware the military/industrial complex.
trump cares nothing for any rights for any person in any country, including the United States, if those rights in any way get in the way of $$$$$.
Because trump wants military contracts to go through on selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, it doesn't matter how many people are tortured and murdered.
And Republicans have no problem with that.
Ike would have despised every one of these creeps.
Beware the military/industrial complex.
51
What can we expect from the president who called the free press is the enemy of the people?
69
@Kodali
Exactly. He got the Saudi's to send out the signal because the Russians have no credibility.
@Kodali
And he didn't even know that the phrase did not refer to "journalists".... but to the "capitalists" that were poisoning the environment!
Worse? No one in the White House or Congress (and now the Supreme Court!) ever knew enough to tell him the difference!
Sigh.... all those "Think-Tanks" and not a thought amongst them....... sad.
1
Money over humanity. Who is surprised by anything this man (and his son in law) does?
8
The Republican Party is a party of rich old men who pay their congressional lackeys to pass laws to aid them in their relentless pursuit of profits. And then we have Trump blatently boasting at a rally this week he loves Saudis becaus they buy 5, 6 million dollars apartments from him. So in other words, left unsaid, he’s not going to spoil that relationship and all that filthy lucre for some Arab who isn’t (thank God) American. Similarly in the 60 minutes interview he brazenly admitted he doesn’t care Putin murders people in the UK. because “it’s not in America”. Let’s not forget that the US has always been capitalistically isolationist, but Trump has taken it to a higher venal level by admitting publicly he profits from his foreign policy and couldn’t care less if anything happened in other countries or to other citizens as long as it doesn’t look bad for him politically, so he can get re- elected and profit personally for another 4 years. What a sick, poor excuse for a democracy.
15
This will be Jared Kushners "Bengahzi". He has already sent out a preemptive position that he knew nothing of this killing in advance. Let's see if Judicial Watch takes the same interest it has with Clinton's emails and Kushners advance knowledge.
21
@Allen82, yeah, they'll be right on it as soon as the clock strikes 13 on February 31st. (Can you imagine anyone in the Obama administration committing just one thing this treasonous crew has and not being rained on like Niagara Falls by Judicial Watch, AFP or any other right wing lobby? Nah, me either....)
Trump could care less about any atrocity let alone a journalist being murdered. He is probably thrilled!
15
@John Edelmann yea. he's thrilled. brilliant point. obama really stood up to the same human rights abuses of russia, iran, china and the arab world. uh huh. he really, really let them have it!!
The topic of Federalist No. 75, published by Alexander Hamilton in 1788, predicted a Donald Trump:
"An avaricious man might be tempted to betray the interests of the state to the acquisition of wealth."
Hamilton advised:
"However proper or safe it may be in governments where the executive magistrate is an hereditary monarch, to commit to him the entire power of making treaties, it would be utterly unsafe and improper to entrust that power to an elective magistrate of four years' duration."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._75
2
@One More Realist in the Age of Trump You do understand that the president has lost money by being president? And of course treaties must be confirmed by the senate, that is why Obama did not even try to make them, he just did things that should be treaties on his presidential powers which was easily reversed. I bet he was surprised when Hillary lost.
Think of all those weapons deals! Think of all those gilded bathrooms! Think of all those condos and real estate "investments." Think of all that cash....
Trump is building relationships for the long-term. His own and his family's, not ours.
22
The Iranians are the primary purveyors of terrorism in the world. There's no justification for what the Saudis did but it's kids stuff compared to the Iranians. Yet where was the Times outrage when billions and billions were shipped to the Iranians as part of the Iran deal?
3
@Bob It was their money that we confiscated. The deal to give it back was agreed to by our allies.
6
I didn’t know it was the Iranians who planned and executed 9/11. I certainly didn’t realize they were bombing and starving Yemen to death. Where do you find this information?
4
It's like Obama said to Trump:"the pen is mightier than the sword." and as a reaction Trump is now trying to prove him wrong by arguing that swords are higher priced than the pens.
2
Trump has no moral character to care about a killing.
It's up to the world's journalist's to condemn the guilty strongly, often, and for a very long time.
14
In Trump's latest "60 Minutes" interview, he excuses Putin's assassinations, he excuses Russia's election interference, he excuses Un's human rights violations, he excuses his mocking of Dr. Ford, he excuses his dismal understanding of climate change. Ultimately, he is a poor excuse for a president.
26
@Mike
....and the electoral college, the last check on preventing an unqualified person, voted for by an overheated public, influenced by foreign powers, FAILED when it was most needed to intervene
good try Publius
@Mike he's a poor excuse for a human !
@Mike
He's a poor excuse for a human being!
The bottom line without values just makes everything the US has ever stood for meaningless. We have surely become a corporatocracy, and I'm not liking my country very much these days. I'm sure many of us are not proud of what we have become. Let's get out there and VOTE and make our preferences knows.
Restore America's Values Again.
Integrity Matters.
Decency Matters.
17
Trump has long revealed himself as not being an ethical person--not in his treatment of and actions with women, in his treatment of immigrant children (his inhumane policy of separation the unfortunate children from family), his constant, constant lying, his willingness to use denials as proof of innocence ("well, he [e.g., Putin , etc., etc] denies it") and he therefore considers the charge baseless , albeit the deniers tend to be big liars, his racist innuendos, his lashing out unfairly at those he opposes, as with Dr. Ford. It goes on and on --an immoral and unethical person.That Trump is really concerned about the Khashoggi murder is totally unlikely--"not a citizen, etc."--so from Trump himself most likely mere words will be mumbled minus real action. But here the ball is in Congress' court. Is there any decency left in the Republican party or has decency been entirely drained out of the party. The coming few weeks will tell.
167
@shimr
So glad to see Jamie Dimon pull out of this Davos Desert party.
"The Saudi government reacted harshly on Sunday to the specter of a punitive American response, saying it would respond to any action “with greater action,” backed by its economic might".
This is an empty threat. The US is the major arms supplier to the Saudis besides the UK. The UK's largest clients are Saudi Arabia (49% of all sales), Oman (14% of all sales), and Indonesia (9.9% of all sales). UK should suspend all their arms sales to the Saudis too
Russia's warm and friendly relations to Syria and Yemen they are not going to sell any military weapons to the Saudis. China is incapable of replacing the US in arms sales to the Saudis.
President Bush is not correct in telling that the Saudis would buy their military equipment from some other country. The US should at least suspend all military sales to Saudi Arabia until we know the truth. The Saudis love their military, nothing else will work with the Saudis
3
@Padman Your logic has some validity, but not that much. China in particular could supplement their forces, and why would you trade jobs for these things.
From today's NYT daily briefing; "If Saudi Arabia “receives any action, it will respond with greater action,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Sunday, citing the oil-rich country’s “influential and vital role in the global economy.”
So what happens when we our government continues to fortify them with an additional hundred billion dollar in weapons? The next threat will include an attack, as well as calling due our indebted loans. It's not like their citizens haven't attacked America in the past.
13
So it has been decided that Trump pursuing tens of billions of dollars worth of business deals is bad, because he is doing business with despots.
But it has also been decided that it is ok, in fact, it is - excellent - that the Clinton "foundation" has received more than $25,000,000 in "donations" from despots.
Makes sense. I don't see any media hypocrisy in that stance.
4
@Objectivist Other than Republican hear say where is your proof?
2
@John Lusk
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-president...
In last night's 60 Minutes interview, Trump's raging narcissism was on full display. He never answered a question truthfully, directly or responsibly. Asked if he had any regrets, "I didn't cancel NAFTA soon enough". Asked if he should've have gloated and mocked Christine Blasey Ford, "he didn't". Asked if he should bring the country together " a lot of people are coming to my agenda". His answer on climate change was frightening. Kind of admitting there may be, but nature could change, but still about his coal, oil and gas and polluting friends' dollars.
Everything with him is bottom line, mostly his or others. Business over morals. The article you published yesterday about his white male all about economic supporters from Ohio is what I have found with my economically well off friends. None of what he does matters as long they get their tax cuts and deregulation, and judges who support that agenda.
He is a gangster and it doesn't matter what his rogues gallery of thugs, foreign and domestic, do, as long as they make more money on the way.
Make The Mob Great Again.
82
@feddef ....time to vote out the gangsters. it's not a question of whether this is a gangster mentality at work: the query should be how forceful will be at the polls in voting this syndicate out of office?
1
@feddef Mobsters Are Grifting America
Marco Rubio (Lil Marco) also says we should go through with the military sales deal. He says then when the Saudis need parts for the items they purchased, we’ll have leverage over them.
Sounds like a plan. No messy Christian values gumming up transactions. Let’s also let gay wedding cake deals go through. Public bakeries make cakes for customers outside their moral purview. Then they’ll have leverage over customers for needed cake toppers, plastic forks, paper napkins.
The United States of Open for Business. When it suits us. When there’s enough dough to be made. When we’re not busy praying about cake batter.
Here’s hoping Evangelical Trump supporters have a come-to-Jesus moment about arms sales.
8
The President’s first foreign trip was to Saudi Arabia, not a close ally like one of the “five eyes” countries whom the US can trust the most. Very telling.
21
"Other presidents have tempered concerns about human rights overseas with what they perceived to be America’s own security or economic interests. What is different is how open Mr. Trump has been in expressing that realpolitik calculation no matter how crass or cynical it might appear."
So, basically, Trump is doing what all our other presidents have done--protecting America's interests. The difference is that he is honest about it, and his honesty has allowed the nation to judge whether that is a good or bad policy. He isn't lying or dissembling about what he is doing and why he is doing it. And unlike our last president, he isn't quietly practicing realpolitik with Muslim nations at the same time he's traveling the world apologizing to Muslims for doing it.
2
@Chuck French Exactly, if being truthful is crass or cynical to this newspaper it says a lot about their coverage and attitude. I also wonder how anybody is so stupid to kill someone in their home, might be a fake.
Perhaps Trump and Prince Jared are too entangled financially with the Saudis and believe they should not bite that hand.
Second, could it be possible that Trump sees the House of Saud and the repressive government they impose on the people, particularly women and dissidents, as something Trump would like to achieve.
I don't believe that jobs is the only issue here.
9
@Dan. An interesting side note to financial entanglements. Within the context of the $110 Billion Sale to Saudi Arabia - is there some type of sales commission to Kushner for the overall deal? Remember Kushner brokered the deal several months back. Follow the money.
I believe the bottom line was that Kushner got his Loan for 666 Park Ave which was about to go under.
63
@Philip W. It's 666 Fifth Ave., not Park.
Trump, prioritizing the sale of American war hardware to Saudi Arabia, instead of the polestar of Democracy -- human rights -- has shown us what he will face in time measured from now. The moral outrage against Prince Salman bin Sultan, Trump's greatest friend since his first presidential visit to Saudia Arabia abroad in May 1917, is finally centering on President Trump, who isn't displaying a lot of anger against MBS or his country.
Can an American Permanent Resident -- a journalist for the Washington Post, a Saudi dissident -- be assassinated and dismembered at the command of the Saudi Muslim theocracy/autocracy, in the face of the entire world's horror and approbation? America, under an unfit president, has become a Hobbesian creation where life is brutal, short and nasty except for the kakistocrats who are holding the reins in our White House and Oval Office.
The vaunted bonanza of Trump's dreams and promises of billions in contracts from Saudi Arabia and its young Saudi
crown prince has come to nought. His lies, which America has swallowed since Trump was elected president two years ago, are unraveling.
President Trump's catastrophic foreign policy is America's poison tree, and the fruit of that tree is now lying at Trump's feet. The Saudi assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, a member of the Press, must be addressed. If the President sweeps this under his rug, will our GOP Congress address this seminal issue of our time?
3
There is no morality in Trump's mind. As long as he wins, everything is okay. Something is terribly wrong with him.
18
Trump needs to stop selling jet fighters to this barbaric country and stop all contact. This was a horrific act and to do less shows Trump and his supporters will accept any bad behavior just to make a dollar. If Trump retaliates with military force we need to enlist Trumps 3 healthy sons for Army duty and send them into the fight instead of Democrats sons and daughters taking the ultimate sacrifice in every Republican war they love to start.
12
Since Trump refuses to release his tax returns, or put his assets in a blind trust, we really have no idea how his business entanglements with the Saudis are influencing his foreign policy.
17
@Edie Clark And those tax returns would show little to nothing, and he has a blind relationship with those in charge of his business. Everyone knew he had a business and only idiots would think he would put it in the hands of anybody other than his family. It is not like say investments in stocks.
Seems that the Saudi's see the free press "the enemy of the people". trump can't order the deaths of journalists so he lets the Saudi's do it for him.
9
" and the possible deals began in the Obama administration, when the Saudis bought $112 billion in aircraft, missiles and other military equipment over eight years."
Still taking credit for Obama's policy, same like inheriting a good economy without invoking his name. Except the lie "I inherited a mess."
1
Heinous slaying of a journalist aside with no disrespect intended - consider the use of American arms in the Saudi war against Yemen. Trump indicated that canceling the deal would put Americans out of work. There are other ways to put Americans in jobs - infrastructure projects, a "campaign promise" by Trump. Human rights are simply not on Trump's campaign bucket list.
58
@Hypatia Just wait those infrastructure projects are coming, and those making military hardware are not going to be building roads.
@vulcanalex
Is that what your Magic 8-Ball says? Wake up: Infrastructure is not and never will be a priority for Trump because he can't profit from it and it would actually be good for the country. He doesn't care about the county, he doesn't care about the people who liver here, and he doesn't care about you. He only cares about himself. Sorry you've been had.
I am so glad you mentioned this. Just as the United States is a bully in the Americas (we have been involved in assassinations in the Americas), Saudi Arabia is a bully in the Middle East. And the US has been enabling Saudi Arabian bullying.
I am thinking, I might like to ask, who else but Putin would like to exploit Trump for promising not to publicly scorn Saudi Arabia for human rights violations by torturing while assassinating an American?
Could Putin’s/Russia be capable of an elaborate plot to set up both Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, for setting up Saudi Arabia? With a Russia under severe sanctions possibly thinking that Trump might cancel his Saudi weapons deal, leaving Russia’s economy open to fill the void? Maybe also thinking that the U.S. Armed Forces in Turkey might be somehow challenged if the U.S. and the world blames or suspects Turkey?
Could it be a Russian-plot; where Putin thinks Russia has something to win on either side’s loss against Russian-deception?
While the Crown Prince is indeed, half of a politician of Democracy, perhaps Putin would like to put an end to any building on Democracy Saudi Arabia eludes to do with the west, as well?
1
Ii think the POTUS is right on the money - not as a pun - but for the foreign policy of America.
One thing to bear in mind that the penchant of his predecessor to support this so called "Arab Spring" that has led to nothing but chaos.
The brutality of the overthrow of Gaddafi is for all to see.
While a murder of anyone needs to be condemned and folks held to account - as the nearby NYT article amply demonstrates - this man was biting the hand that fed him - and he was no saint.
His friends describe him as a devout Muslim - but the picture of Thanksgiving he posted - showed a table full with bottles of wine - hardly a table a devout Muslim should share.
America has much higher priorities. And as the POTUS hinted in his 60 minutes - the real uproar is he was a so called reporter.
If he had been a run of the mill - a well connected Saudi - now biting the hand - I doubt the uproar would be that great.
I say this because there was hardly any pressure on this or previous administration when this crown prince confiscated wealth and jailed several - admittedly in a Ritz.
2
Democratic White House leadership wouldn’t have ever promised not to publicly scorn Saudi Arabia for human rights violations. Democratic Congressional leadership would have never been put in a position, like Republican Congressional leadership is, to only offer correcting and disciplining their own White House as the only fix to their own president’s lack of immorality.
2
Yes, Peter, the laughably named ‘defense industry’ —- really the global weapons crooks, who produce the greatest ‘negative externality cost’ dumping products in our world (although matched by the fossil fuel crooks) —- should really be called what George Bernard Shaw called them, “The Merchants of Death”.
10
The US military industrial complex always wins
Back to the Obama administration'
From Foreign Policy , March 31, 2015
"
U.S. Resuming F-16, Tank Shipments to Egypt
Just in time for Egypt’s military campaign against Houthi rebels in Yemen, the White House announced Tuesday it would allow shipments of U.S. fighter jets, tanks, and missiles to Cairo, reversing earlier reluctance to supply heavy aid before President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi"
"Not far from the minds of decision-makers in Washington are likely the burgeoning relationships that Cairo has been forging with Russia and France. In February, Egypt agreed to purchase 24 Rafale fighter jets from France as part of a deal valued at $5.9 billion. Russian President Vladimir Putin also pushed weapons sales in a recent visit with Sisi."
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/03/31/us-f-16-arms-abrams-shipments-egypt/
3
Previously Trump pronounced his envy over the fact that whenever Kim Jong-un spoke, his people sat up and listened. MBS now shows a head of state can murder people at will, just as Kim and Putin do. Don’t expect Trump to show outrage over the actions of his role models. Expect wistfulness.
26
Once again, Mr. Trump has made me ashamed to be an American.
22
Why no mention of the business dealings the Trump and Kushner families have in Saudi Arabia? This isn’t about missiles and jobs; it’s about loans and hotels. C’mon Peter, we’re all thinking it.
150
Because all news media are now owned by corporations whose only concern is profits, and whose owners push a conservative agenda.
"Potentially" is the word that will allow the Saudi murders to murder again, thanks to Donald Trump. We need to hear more about the Trump family business and it's Saudi entanglements.
26
I confess to being ambivalent about this Khashoggi matter. On the one hand, I am always outraged when unjust harm is inflicted on anyone at the direction of those in power. But such evil is a regular occurrence. What is special about the victim in this instance that would make it draw such response from other governments? After reading the Times article on the history of Khashoggi, his decades long affinity for the Muslim Brotherhood, his advocacy for the Saudi Royal family, and his association with Osama bin Laden, I certainly have no special sympathy for him. And his apparent murder took place in Turkey, another muslim dictatorship, not here.
So, why is the Khashoggi disappearance and likely murder getting all this media attention and attention from western government leaders?
I suspect that the primary reason is simply that he was a journalist and that journalists across the world use the power of their presses to pursue the selfish mutual interests of their fellow journalists. It is much like the behavior of police sticking together to pursue their mutual selfish interests.
1
And the mutual self-interest of those who turn a blind eye to evil? Is this the “I really don’t care, do you” comment?
1
If it was not for the Saudíes, Trump’s hotels would be tanking. That is why he is moving so slow.
26
Saudi Arabia is a preeminent example confirming that ALL trump’s international bonding is entirely intertwined with Trump’s investments. His and family business properties populate fascist/dictatorial countries and not the European countries or Canada. Who does Trump support? Fascists dictators. Who does he condemn? Western Nation Leaders. American democracy is being demolished and trivialized by trump’s financial interest, not America’s best interest. If this is not reversed it will denigrate America for generations. Voters must realize what is happening and vote for the good of their country which is to the country’s benefit and wellbeing.
7
A lot of these characters, including Trump, are obsessed with overturning Roe v Wade because supposedly they cannot tolerate the “murder” of a fetus. But when there’s a big, juicy arms deal at stake, watch what they think about a real-life murder . . .
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@Davey Boy, they'll kidnap and put babes in cages gleefully enough. Their purported care for embryos and fetuses is more than a little suspect at this time.
1
@Davey Boy: Right on! Funny how money changes people's minds..good analogy!
I hope after 17 years and several unnecessary wars we finally realize who our true enemy is. Saudi Arabia and the Whabbist movement that has poisoned Islam. Saddam Hussein, the Taliban and the legitimate leaders of Iran may not be our friends but we had no reason to pick a fight with them. Neither Iran nor Iraq was seriously interested in attacking the US and Bin Ladin was in Afghanistan under Saudi protection. Under the guise of supporting religious education Saudi Arabia has spent untold millions turning young Muslim’s into angry hateful and dangerous opponents of our way of life. This latest outrage should be a turning point. We don’t need Saudi oil and we certainly don’t need to arm them further.
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Trump is again playing us for fools. Just watch: A scapegoat will emerge out of thin air. Then, Trump & Co. will say the Saudi rulers and the Saudi military should get their weapons.
10
This monster we have elected to the White House has not the smallest morsel of Humanity nor shred of compassion.
This will go down in history as the true American Tragedy.
And hs no doubt is robbing us blind!
He is the biggest failure as a Human Being to ever be in power in this country in my lifetime.
The sight or the sound of him turns my stomach. May he swiftly depart and may we never see him or any of his family in public office ever again.
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The fact that the all mighty dollar is more important to Trump then ethical or moral values should come as no surprise to anybody. This man had already sold is soul to the devil for the first dollar he ever got (noticed I didn't say earned). Now he can add Saudi's prince to his best friends list with Putin and Jong-un.
39
Trump is like the old joke about we've already determined what you are, now we're just haggling about the price,
It didn't take much to figure out his price.
61
How sad that so much of America's trade is wrapped up in weaponry. A country that claims moral high ground (although Trump is the antithesis of that) has no business selling killing machinery to anyone.
15
So as well all knew in NY since we heard the name Trump,
Trump & Kushner (& GOP) will sell out our moral values for a price.
3
So this man, who wants to "protect" unborn children while stripping the women of the right to make decisions about their bodies and their lives, now justifies doing business with a country that not only kills a journalist but dismembers his body in order to remove it without attracting attention.
Please remember that Jesus chased the money changers from the temples.
33
Alongwith several family business interests, billions of weapons sale to the Saudis becoming a priority over the Khashggi case outrage the trader in Trump triumphs over his moral being.
4
I think the USA lost much of its "moral authority" in November of 2016. Events over the last two years have proven me correct.
And I am not a stable genius.
Just an average voter.
26
The big deal of the sales to the Saudis of $115 billion or so Trump "spoke" of is indeed more like $15B, but that's a soft figure as well. As usual, morals lose with Trump at the helm. Apparently, swords are useful in fact for other things besides dancing at fancy parties. Wonder where the gold medallion resides not? Look at that photo! Grim.
15
This is all about the bottom line...
But it's not first and foremost about corporate America's bottom line, and any incremental employment that might result from an arm sale. Instead, it's all about Donald Trump's own, personal bottom line.
The Saudi's have been and continue to be important contributors to Trump's personal cash flow. Over the past 25 years they have been prolific buyers of Trump properties. They're over represented among the guests at Trump hotels in New York and Washington. And Trump has efforts underway to manage Trump-branded properties on Saudi soil.
This is why Trump never should have been permitted to take office without first divesting his business interests. He was not, and his own narrow interests are now being expressed in both foreign and domestic policy.
That's why he'll do nothing in response to Khashoggi's death. And that's why Saudi Arabia (home to 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11) was not among the countries Trump targeted for "extreme vetting" regarding immigration.
I look to Congress to finally come together and do the right thing - demanding a stop to our growing propensity to support thuggish dictators who just so happen to benefit the President's narrow self-interest.
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@Garrison1 you'll have to wait for a democratic congress for that to happen
3
Under Trump, America has given up the moral authority to claim the leadership of the free world. Profits are prioritized over human rights and freedom. But is that really surprising when Republicans prioritize party over country?
The Republicans are only concerned about what's in it for themselves and their wealthy donors. Everyone else is on their own.
America First = America Alone.
34
What does one expect when allies are enemies and dictatorships are friends? Isn't this just business as usual for the US and Saudis? Does the US now attack Iran?
7
The best way forward here is a carbon tax with dividend that accelerates the clean energy economy and makes oil so expensive that Saudi Arabia is irrelevant.
10
@CynicalObserver Sure that will really work. Your Carbon tax won't be applied around the world and it will just make jobs and economic activity leave the US. Great for everyone other than our citizens.
I am no fan of the current president, but in this one situation, I don't actually believe he deserves anyone's moral outrage. Every US president since WWII has not only given Saudia Arabia a pass, but has empowered them to be viewed as a respected national while committing numerous human rights violations. Trump, for once, just happens to be the only president who has been transparent about our motivations there. This doesn't make Trump a better person or president, but he's just being consistent with decades of policy.
3
Great headline. Wrong, but great as far as continuing the MSM assault on everything Trump. What he said is that cancellation of arms sales affects only military manufacturers in America; those purchases can be made in other countries. But he also promised serious consequences if the allegations turn out to be true. And President Trump’s history is that he follows up on his promises, and does not draw fake lines in the sand pretending moral outrage.
1
@HENRY the trouble is that we will never know if the allegations turn out to be true.
@Mark So by the rule of law no evidence means no punishment. Or do you just assume things? It really looks like someone else did this and is pinning it on them. How stupid can you be that a government does this in their home? It would be easy to kill him on the street or in his home making it look like crime or terrorist activities.
‘I don’t really care. He’s not an American citizen. Yes, it’s terrible, but we’ve got all this business with them.’ He doesn’t shy away from saying that.”
A man who would sell the basic principle for the money would sell out his country for the same reason.
104
The Turks will not divulge any proof (for the general public (if there is any).
The entire thing will most probably peter out without any concrete proof and Trump will cite that there is no proof of a definite murder.
Some members of congress will make som noise but to no avail.
3
The President's customary corruption has played utterly into the hands of staining our reputation in the region, already abysmal for his contempt for the Iranian nuclear accord, contempt for human rights of Palestinians, contempt for the entire state of Yemen, and utter drift from the Bosporus to the Indus. Alexander was wrong. There was another world to conquer. America under Trump.
1
If one wants to put their finger on what the underlying cause of most of the problems we have in our country, this is it...money "uber alles" (above all else). I would love to know what portion of our manufacturing income is attributed to war materials. I would bet it is a lot...and the largest portion of your and my taxes goes to Pentagon/Military.
Are we proud yet?
Wouldn't you rather have available jobs be in improving our infrastructure, public buildings (schools?), "green" product and sustainable manufacturing, renewable energy jobs?
Oh, yeah..and as a sideline, perhaps it would be nice for US land and buildings be owned by citizens and permanent residents of our country instead of being used as tools for international money laundering.
The voters who put Trump in office (and those who didn't vote) are responsible for the businessman/president's choices. Note that I don't use the word successful, as since we have not seen his financials, we have only his word and he is hitting the 5000 mark of lies since he has been in office.
Hate the Dems? Vote for them anyway in the midterms and then use the subsequent years to build a more moderate and sane party...and one that values human rights, health and integrity more than the almighty dollar.
22
Russia murders former agents in Britain resulting in unenforceable sanctions and indictments. Russia still undergirds Western Europe with massive natural gas sales that are unaffected by these sanctions. Remember, NKorea’s Kim Jong Um murdered his uncle and sent a goon squad to assassinate his half brother and is Trump’s friend and no one in Congress is demanding that he be brought to trial. Remember, China has kidnapped the President of Interpol and has succeeded in hiding that fact,(Meng Hongwei). Remember, Obama attempted to hide an intent to befriend Russia, hoping to wait out the optics that might hurt his re-election chances. We have to remember that non-Western governments tolerate and promote barbaric motives and actions by their totalitarian leadership. To some degree, we cannot avoid trading with them. To a major degree, isolating them encourages growing a hostile barbaric alliance: Russia with Syria, Turkey, and Iran with China as a less visible supporter. Consider China’s variably visible but undying support for NKorea and Russia’s support for NKorea. We live in a world hostile to Western values and we have to understand that Western values largely are Christianity based, founded on the John 3:16 principle that all, regardless of race, gender, wealth, slave/free, circumcised or not are entitled to equal grace. That mentality simply does not exist outside of Westernism. How to “punish” the Saudis in a meaningful way that encourages reform will be problematic.
1
Not the first time that the bottom line is more important than rational policy: Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, but Saudi Arabia is not on the list of countries for the Muslim Ban, and Saudis spread an extremist, terrorism spouting, version of Islam anywhere they can. Another reason to take green energy, public transportation infrastructure (example: Japan's high speed trains) and environmental protection (example: Dutch water management) very seriously. That also creates a lot of jobs and keeps the citizens healthier and happier.
8
@Anna How foolish, there is no "Muslim Ban" what really exists is an Obama list of countries where due to local conditions it would be difficult to impossible to properly clear people to come to the US. Several countries with large Muslim populations were not on that list.
@vulcanalex
Sure vulcanalex. And those "several countries" just happen to be countries Trump does business with. What a coincidence!
@vulcanalex: Well, that applies to Saudi Arabia as well then, since fifteen of the nineteen hijackers came from there, don't you think so?
Don't "bargain's" benefit both parties involved?
How does the U.S. ACTUALLY gain from a Saudi relationship...other than through a crass and craven monetary relationship?
America has, and can continue to be, a symbol of decency and progress, something which money cannot buy.
6
Bottom line is that M.B.S. committed murder right out in the open, apparently not fearing retaliation because of his relationship with Trump and Jarred.
More importantly, what is the “bottom line” for America? When do we, the citizens of The United States finally say “Enough.”?
If any citizen watching 60 minutes last evening didn’t see Donald Trump as he really is, then unfortunately, there isn’t an ophthalmologist on this planet that can fix it for you.
Making hard decisions to stop any bad habit is painful, whether it be physical or psychological, but there finally comes a point when you have no choice if you, and your country are going to survive. This is that point! If we don’t stop the madness now within our own country, then quite frankly, we no longer have a country worth saving.
30
@Eric Cosh
don the con is testing the waters .... first allow murder at a Saudi Embassy, then give it a try on 5th Avenue
has no moral compass - never had one
America long ago lost the moral authority to give the rest of the world lessons on morality, when it has always basically put financial and political gains before human rights abuse, The US does this to his own people by prioritising financial gains to the health of it's own citizens so I certainly agree with you Peter, what is new is the blatant cynicism of Donald Trump, although quite frankly, this may be much better than the hypocrisy of past governments that portray themselves as right human advocators, when in truth they are abusing their own citizens...
America, the US as I prefer to call it, needs to learn to truly put human interests first and money second. Money to the service of humans and not the other way around. Sad but the same is true in most parts of the world.
10
National politicians used to talk about "American values" that we want to share with the world. What values are we now sharing...that murder is fine as long as you buy from companies that support Trump and keep Americans employed?
Under Republican rule, the U.S. has lost any right to claim moral superiority over its adversaries. And now the world is laughing at us.
8
" Egypt and Saudi Arabia are both important partners of the United States in regional issues, particularly the fight against terrorism."..............Therein lies the reason terrorists hate us; our extensive involvement in the middle east. It's a self perpetuating thing.
Why does America always have to think and act like the cops of the world, thus making us targets of hatred? Why not defer this dilemma to the world court? There is always great power in international alliances.
As far as Trump goes, no surprise at what I read. After all, what is the difference between Don Trump and a Mafia Don? Anybody?
1
Alternatively, we have the faux outrage of some members of Congress as they deposit millions of dollars they receive from the defense industry.
2
It is not just Trump who is to be blamed for the US and its 'blank check' policy towards Saudi Arabia. However, he is one that has no shame, is all about himself and money and has no qualms if a life is lost as long as he gets the 110 Billion arms deal with Saudi.
For decades, both Republican and Democrats have given the Saudi's a "blank check" both politically and militarily. For a country that is supposed to be the bastion and leader of the Free World, we speak from both sides of our mouths... talk about democracy while supporting the most autocratic rules on this planet.
Until the US makes drastic steps to reduce dependency on fossil fuels (very doable with natural gas and renewables - just need a will to do it!) and realizes that Iran is a better ally than Saudi Arabia, the US will continue to be played by the Saudis.
We have turned a blind eye to the atrocities Saudis are committing in Yemen. We forget the mess WE caused in Iran that led to the rise of Khomeini.
America used to be a moral beacon to the world....sadly, no longer so. Ruled by a narcissistic con-man, surrounded by cronies who won't call out the Emperor with no clothes and who care only about themselves and lining their pockets, the future of the free world is bleak while the future of dictatorial and autocratic states like Saudi and North Korea is strong. They have a savior in Trump!
44
I am over 60 and I am trying to remember when the US has been a moral beacon in the world. I think it was before I was born.
What good would cancelling the arms deal do? The Russians will step in in a second, and American companies would lose. Trump is totally correct and will handle this in a method that is far more effective.
10
@James The Shining City on the Hill? Was Reagan wrong?
@James
It's wrong because it's nothing short of a bribe for the US to look the other way so any country can do what they want to do if they pay the price.
4
@James, Is this not capitalism? Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose; especially when leadership is not well-informed or lacks a moral compass?
2
Donald Trump’s choice of money over human life can be a surprise to no one. Trump has demonstrated again and again his complete lack of values, morals or emparthy. This has been apparent for four decades in New York City. Self promotion and maximizing personal wealth (even if illusory) is all he cares about. It is only shocking that so many Americans seem to share these priorities by still supporting him.
262
@Leo J Blackman Leo, let us start with I am not a Trump fan.
Just curious, what about the "red Line" in Syria? What about Hillary's reaction to Benghazi?
Let us be fair. The majority of politicians, republican, democrat or otherwise, are in it for themselves, not the human rights, not the constituents, and not the country. It is up to the highest bidder.
Well said Leo! As a former New Yorker, born, raised and educated through college, I saw the rise of the Trump"Empire" and was always aware of his very shady dealings. Everyone who knew about him for many years tried to warn others, but to no avail...Unfortunately his supporters felt a kinship with him because of his morally bankrupt ways...VOTE BLUE Nov,6 !!
1
So Trump is being honest in a way the other presidents have not ever been. That sounds better than false outrage.
23
Honest how? He claims a major arms sale while no sales have gone through.
3
@James
Don't you actually have to have a contract for this to make sense. Or is just the agreement to maybe someday consider a contract?
Talk about being sold cheap.
2
@James
Agree 100 percent with your statement.
The NYT editorial board does the same calculation.
After all, Profit is more important to the Ruling Class than Morals are.
151
Profits are all that matter to the ruling class. They have zero morals.
2
The author says "it may not be a major surprise" Trump puts dollars over decency. Please, it isn't a surprise at all.
186
@klm. This would delight the Russians who would immediately sell them the arms. The TDS folks are running wild.
1
Whose bottom line? The country's or Jared Kushner's and Trump's? Both have deep business ties to the Saudis. And everyone knows that Trump will always make decisions that protect his business over the good of the American people.
This is why you don't allow real estate grifters to run the country.
339
@Ralphie. the Russians would sell them arms in a second, costing American jobs and doing nothing to punish the Saudis. Trump does not own Raytheon, Boeing or Northrop-Grumman. Your comment makes no sense at all.
1
Erm... @Ralphie... last time I checked, a real estate grifter WAS running the country.
1
@James
Not Raytheon, Boeing or Northrop-Grumman, James. Trump's and Kushner's real estate businesses. Until we see their tax returns and financial statements we won't know the extent of their financial entanglements with the Saudis and how the Saudis control them.
Is it that hard to imagine this from MBS:
"Uh Donald, if you put any pressure on us at all or cancel the arms deal you will never see a Trump Riyadh Hotel, got it? Good."
That is exactly how unscrupulous world leaders so easily exert leverage on Trump. And, as noted, Trump will always put his own financial interests first. Always.
So it makes perfect sense to me.
How low have we sunk?
We are now more on a par with regimes like No. Korea, Phil., Saudia Arabia, Russia etc. on human rights than the western world.
172
@ Paul
When was the USA morally better than anyone?
Ever.
Don’t forget morality extends to we treat our poor & disenfranchised.
Aren’t homelessness and hunger moral issues?
3
Believe me, Paul, we are sinking lower daily.
If you knew the true scope of the nefarious deals our corporate owned government is engaged in, with despots everywhere, you would be mortified.
The accumulation of obscene wealth "trumps" morality every time, and most especially when our American corporate owned government is at work.
5
@Mel Farrell- Yes, not only with human rights, the wealth gap is as big as it was with the corporate barons at the turn of the 1900s.
"The point is that you can't be too greedy......"
- page 48, Trump: The Art of the Sociopath (1987)
......or too amoral, or too craven, or too soulless, or too blind to humanity.
Hail to the Deplorable Dollar-Bill-In-Chief !!!
November 6 2018
VOTE
222
@Socrates
Where was the liberal outrage when Obama did the same thing, as the article pointed out?
2
@Socrates
It's just so easy to blame Trump for everything. He's such an obvious target, "too amoral, too craven, too soulless, too blind to humanity," All may be true.
What is also true is that most us, liberals as well, don't much care that our superlative standard of living is won at the cost of other lives. Be they lost through work houses, bullets, or bone saws, we prefer to not know.
When confronted with evidence of how that sausage is made, we are outraged. Really really outraged! And then go on to live in our nice houses, our moral superiority intact, knowing we have done our part to make the world a better place.
To actually put our money where our mouth is, is unthinkable. Are we really willing to take a huge economic hit to take a stand for man's inhumanity to man? I would dearly love to see that in my lifetime.
1
@Socrates
Socrates, your diacopes put me in mind of a great American's take on runaway capitalist greed:
Moloch the incomprehensible prison! Moloch the crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of sorrows! Moloch whose buildings are judgment! Moloch the vast stone of war! Moloch the stunned governments!
Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch whose poverty is the specter of genius! Moloch whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen! Moloch whose name is the Mind!
Yes. Vote. Get us out of this.
2