He was killed because he was investigating people who have people eliminated if they don't like what they're doing or where they're sticking their noses in and sniffing around.
This investigation will get shut down really fast.
12
Good chances that Trump is lamenting that he doesn't have the power similar to Salman of Saudi Arabia.
27
Of course foreign governments are terrified of any Saudi retribution for condemnation of this murder. Remember the Saudi reaction when Canada tweeted its concern about the treatment of feminist activists? Closing down of economic links, cancellation of Saudi flights, recalling of Saudi students and MD interns, etc. These bullies like to throw their weight around.
21
Mr. Khashoggi, a legal resident of the United States and a columnist for The Washington Post
.....where is our governments outrage? (crickets)
46
Trump is busy pretending he had no idea. Funny, the Intelligence Services were aware the hit was planned. He also has no idea that the Saudis are bombing and murdering tens of thousands in Yemen. Oh, and about 9/11...Trump wouldn't let that stand in the way of "friendship."
23
Don't hold your breath waiting for Trump to criticize the murder of a journalist by a repressive dictatorship. We all know which side he's on in that sort of thing.
Should that worry Americans and all citizens of the world? Absolutely.
44
We've seen the security video still of Mr. Khashoggi entering the consulate. If he left of his own free will, as MBS maintains, where is the video footage showing this?
23
why haven't other countries or the United Nations close the Embassy of Saudi Arabia in their country to protest this???
19
Just remember 9/11/2o01. wasn't the Saudi gov. supplying
14 of the 18 hijackers to cause thousands of deaths in NY ,DC and PA? For them this murder was a cinch.
And did they get any retribution? Sadly no. Thanks George
Bush!
A reckoning is overdue.
22
How or, better, why were these two charter flights allowed to land in Turkey?
7
Would any administration, past or present, do anything about this, given Saudi Arabia's oil resources and geopolitical stature? A few newspaper articles will talk about this for a week or two and then what?
8
Saudi Arabia was enraged a few months ago because of Canada’s public plea via a tweet to release imprisoned Samar Badawi, sister of the writer, Raif Badawi who is also imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. The backlash was swift and the Saudis’ kicked out our ambassador and recalled their own from Ottawa and not a single country spoke up in Canada’s defense, nor did anyone else call for the release of the Badawis, I suspect, because of their trade ties with Saudi. No wonder Ergodan hesitates to state what everyone suspects really happened to Mr. Khashoggi. He doesn’t want to cross a fellow dictator.
29
Trump keeps labeling the press the enemy of the people. Is it any wonder that "our allies" believe they can get away with this without consequence?
18
Just a reminder -the august country of Saudi graces the Human Rights Council AND the Women Rights Council of the UN. They exert similar influence in many institutions-so bear that in mind when your hear the UN criticizing some select countries for atrocities. There is a reason those countries are being targetted
12
Just so I'm clear, this week...
- A belligerent man who insulted his interviewers, perjured himself. and vowed revenge was confirmed to the Supreme Court
- The UN issued a scientific report saying we have 12 years to make radical changes or face an irreversible global catastrophe
- Hurricane Michael is poised to devastate the Florida panhandle
- Trump offered God's blessings to Florida residents while simultaneously moving to gut fuel and emissions regulations
- The lawyer for an adult film star that Trump tried to paid off has challenged Donald Jr. to a MMA fight
- A Saudi dissident was murdered and dismembered with a bone saw inside a diplomatic facility
What does one even say anymore? I don't know how anyone can look their children or grandchildren in the eye with a clear conscience. The "adults" are handing them a mountain of debt, a culture where truth no longer matters, and a planet that just might incinerate them. It is sickening.
70
The Turkish employees of the Saudi embassy were unexpectedly told to take a vacation day and not show up the day Kashoggi disappeared. Although all Saudi CCTV tapes for that day disappeared. How much circumstantial evidence is required?
35
This horror is right out of a novel. And, we then have the Bulgarian reporter raped and murdered. What a reminder that we are so lucky to not live there. The rest of the world is not a nice place. And, sure we can and do blame DT for a lot, but we really can not blame Trump or his son in law for this, but some of your comment writers are trying.
4
The point the Saudis made is that they could blatantly kill a critic in their consulate, deny it despite video and other evidence, and suffer no real consequences from other Governments.
The murder was a demonstration to intimate other critics. And so far, the Saudis are correct in their assessment that other Governments really do not care, and most notably that the Trump Administration will do nothing to offend the Saudi ruler.
23
What could we possibly expect from a regime that has sponsored terror throughout the world for decades, and now bombs & starves kids in Yemen ?
18
Erdogan might be a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad autocrat and a classic "strongman" tyrant (which helps explain Trump's admiration for the guy), but compared to the truly vile gangsters in the Saudi royal family, he's just an irritating creep. The Saudis have been bankrolling Islamist terror for decades -- including (by many accounts) 9/11. Does anyone doubt they'd murder and dismember a lone dissident on foreign soil? Pleeeease.
31
This is FAKE NEWS !!! Right, Trump ??? Shame on you, and the Party you rode in on. Seriously.
14
Can the Saudis please come here and meet with President Trump?
ps. Bring the chain saw, too.
18
The Saudis are the enemy not Iran.
22
And Mr. trump is friends with them (Saudi) and do sword dance with them!! How disgraceful.
10
World is silence for the crimes committed by Saudis around the world for last 30 years. They have trained and supported all terrorist groups to kill thousands of people in the middle east, Europe, USA, and other parts of the globe. They went back to “ Jahiliyya” time (stone age mentality) , killing and murdering each other. The only differences now they have lots of money, weapons, and access to around the world to commit mass murder and to disturb peace. 150-200 people are beheaded in Saudi Arabia each year and no right for women and human. They must be isolated from the international community and the United Nation.
Saudi Arabia is our enemy not our friend.
45
Does it surprise anyone, anyone at all, that the Saud royal family would do this? I mean they don't mind starving the entire population of Yemen, so why would they mind killing a journalist or two?
And of course they think they can get away with it when they are already getting away with genocide. One would think that murder is the easier of the two to get away with.
30
One named man, a Saudi citizen, enters his country's consulate-building in Istanbul. A daily occurrence worldwide.Labeled by some as a dissident he is seen no more. Alive? Dismembered? Kidnapped? “Disappeared,” somehow? As his fiancee waits for him outside. For hours. A daily issue for the local and international media. The same media does not often choose to document daily outcomes of the Saudi -led- “intervention” – an example of semantic surrealism. There are estimates from the UN and other sources, from March 2015 to December 2017, 8,670–13,600 people have been killed in Yemen, including more than 5,200 civilians, as well as estimates of more than 50,000 dead as a result of an ongoing famine due to the "intervention"- war. And these estimates are a year old. And many Yemini 1 year olds may no longer BE. WE, NYT readers have the privilege of turning the page to another story. Which will transmute humans, with and without names, into numbers. Adding relevant photos or not. Our daily, enabled, WE-THEY violating, potentially dismembering culture continues. Whether each of US reads or not. Knows about…or not. Understands, or chooses not to do so. Ummenschlichkeit, enabled by the living, continues to reign. Not as a tale or as a news story. I don't remember if any Turkish Kurds/Kurdish Turks have "disappeared."
10
Saudis killed 3500 Americans on 9/11. Still Saudi Arabia is not on the list of countries Trump banned immigration from because they send terrorists to the US. In fact there is no evidence that any of the banned nations sent any terrorists to the US.
What makes you think Washington cares about this murder?
42
@indisk Trump doesn't care. If you care, then vote in November.
25
If true, it was a gruesome deed. Not exactly the conduct one would expect of a clan claiming to be guardians of holy places for the God of Abraham, more in line with one of the ancient earth gods who demanded human sacrifices. No, they are not pagans, they are just trying to suppress dissent to their behavior, fear of the hate and resentment that their self indulgences produce in others.
11
@Casual Observer There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a "pagan." The word is not a pejorative.
9
More blood on Trump’s hands. Coddling dictators and strong men only enables their bad behavior.
11
I've heard that Trump does plan to get to the bottom of this man's disappearance: he has ordered the FBI to conduct one of their very thorough 3-day investigations into the matter, and provide the Senate with only one copy of a secret report with their results as to whether or not Hillary Clinton was involved.
GeneGrossman.com
59
Trump will do. . .nothing. He admires this kind of conduct and wants to be able to do the same. Plus he probably owes the Saudis lots of money.
25
When the CIA initiated their efforts to kill me, one of their agents, posing as a normal human being, remarked to me that I wasn’t “with anyone,” meaning that I didn’t have the protection of a major news organization.
Now we see how much good that does. The murder of David Bird, a veteran of the Wall Street Journal, remains unsolved. He disappeared in 2014, with nary a whisper of protest from the Fourth Estate. His lengthy career not only didn’t protect him, his murder didn’t merit much notice.
Now, Mr. Khashoggi has disappeared, and very likely has been murdered. What protection did being a Washington Post columnist provide? None.
The fact is association with a major news outlet might make it easier to disappear you, precisely because it provides the illusion of power, the vast network of media contacts that seem to make one impervious. I did not have the luxury of that deceit, that’s partly why I’m still alive.
I grieve for Mr. Khashoggi, and for the family of Mr. Bird. Being in love can make one feel invincible and the comforts of home and hearth diminish the dangers of the world.
But aloneness is your best protection and constant vigilance needs to become a way of life for all writers who speak to injustice.
I read in this paper a couple of years ago that Bill McKibben, the environmentalist, was followed to the grocery store with his child. They don’t follow you for exercise. They mean to silence you and disappearance is the preferred method.
15
Ohh no, but not Mohammad bin Salman as we all know that he is an honorable man.
A Saudi Prince would never do that and MbS has allowed women to drive cars.
/end sarcasm and begin told you so
14
If Turkey really wants a full investigation, and if the saudis will still allow such, perhaps a deep forensic analysis of all the limos mentioned in this article is in order. if there is any blood anywhere in those limos, whose blood is it?
5
Jared Kushner; Trump and GOP are allies with the Saudis. Kushner met with the Prince last year right before his crackdown. Trump/GOP sold billions of dollars of high tech weapons to the Saudis. Trump would like to be able to do in America what the Saudis do; have complete control and obedience from his people. Be afraid; be very afraid. Ray Sipe
21
The US government should break from our cozy relationship with the Saudis after this blatant human rights abuse.
11
Why go to this extraordinary effort to kill one man in such an obvious way and in such a place? Even Russia and North Korea make some effort to use subterfuge. I think something unexpected happened shortly after he arrived at the consulate, and all these people were flown in to clean up the mess.
1
@Terry Check the Turkish account of times. They were there BEFORE Khashoggi arrived, "lying in wait."
11
@Terry Except that half of them flew in that morning and were already checked into the Movenpick hotel hours before Khashoggi entered the consulate. The other half landed in Istanbul at 5:15 p.m. after a 4h 15m flight from Riyadh. Khashoggi entered the consulate at 1:15 p.m. Flown into clean up the mess? Yes. Unexpected? Not so much.
9
@Terry People flew into town before Mr Kashoggi went to the consulate. One plane arrived at 3:13 a.m.
3
This can't possibly be true of a nation (Saudi Arabia) that respects women so much and from which 15 of 19 9/11 hijackers came.
18
This incident reflects the influence that the United States no longer has on the world stage. Not long ago, the Saudis, our so-called "allies", would never consider assassinations for fear of the United States. Now the world knows that the WH occupant is all glitter with no substance, so there's no fear or respect for the United States anymore.
The Saudis will pay no price for this killing, which in turn will embolden them to do more of it.
16
Journalism is becoming a very dangerous business. Someone should build a memorial, on the order of the Vietnam wall, to list the names of all the journalists worldwide who have lost their lives or been imprisoned in the name of freedom of the press in the last decade.. We need to honor their courage and valor. Or the Times could publish a list every time a journalist is disappeared or killed - with their country of origin attached to their name.
Every one of them is a hero in the fight for democracy, transparency, and freedom.
9
Let's analyze this from the perspective of the Trump administration and his equally unconscionable Cabinet and GOP Congress. According to them, the Saudis are innocent of all transgressions, just like Russia and soon-to-be North Korea. However, recent history does not lie. And make no mistake, Saudi Arabia is a tyrannical state guilty of oppression and ruthless assassinations. But it has lots and lots of money. Their god is not Allah but instead the Golden Calf. And for Trump and his sycophants, that is what counts..money, oil, money, oil. Destroying the innocent? Well, just look at what this administration has done to immigrant families, the children in particular. How interesting that they have trouble differentiating between the" souls" of two brown-skinned races of people.
10
"Ankara hoped that Washington and the international community would take the lead..."
Ankara will hope in vain. First, Trump is in the Saudi's pocket - they gave him a medal and threw him a feast, that was all it took. Second, Trump is hardly a defender of freedom of the press - I suspect he admires the Saudis for ridding themselves of a troublesome reporter, something Trump would like to do himself.
America has ceased to lead when it comes to human rights.
8
One disturbing aspect of this disappearance is its routine nature. The Saudi not-so-secret police obviously does this all the time.
10
2018 has been a brutal year for journalists. https://cpj.org/
Trump has encouraged violence towards journalists and the view that journalists are the enemy. I can't see him paying anymore than lip service (when pressed). Saudi Arabia is a close friend of Trump's and his son-in-law; a favored friend and ally of Trump's US; the Saudi's are obliterating Yemen and Yemenis with US intelligence and weapons; Trump attacks journalists (with a capital J) and his mouth piece Sanders disrespects and demeans them at every turn. Above all Saudi Arabia is a sworn enemy of Iran just like Trump, Bolton, Pompeo and Trump's other favored friend on the Arabian Peninsula: Netanyahu's Israel. What's the betting–no corroborating evidence–and he will falsely claim the Saudis are innocent.
7
"It remains unclear how the Turkish government determined that Mr. Khashoggi had been killed"
Presumably the embassy employs locals for a variety of service positions. It isn't hard to imagine someone overhearing, or noticing obvious, unusual activity or requests for supplies that would connect dots.
And, obviously, autopsy experts aren't usually ferried around by private jets to Saudi foreign embassies, although we may be seeing the beginning of a "trend". Thankfully, our sword-dancer-in-chief has his head in Saudi sand. Nothing to worry about.
11
@Slann Local employees were suddenly given a vacation day...
3
It seems like the World reaction was muted. No wide condemnations, no Saudi diplomats are ordered from any Western countries. Seems like only dictatorial Turkey outrages by this murder. I guess Saudi dissident's lives are much cheaper than lives of Russian dissidents. Wonder why?
3
Authoritarian countries like Saudi Arabia are becoming increasingly brazen in their campaign to stifle dissent both at home & elsewhere. Abductions, surveillance, intimidation & assassinations of dissidents and critics by Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many others is becoming the norm. Don’t expect Trump to care, these are his people. Our isolation and indifference will only encourage the authoritarian thugs Trump so admires and further the rise of tyranny, sad.
14
May I make a modest proposal if the Saudis are found guilty of murdering Jamal Khashoggi in their consulate in Istanbul? Treat them the way that they treated Canada when the Canadian government protested the jailing of a woman activist. The Saudis reacted savagely, breaking diplomatic relations, cancelling trade agreements, recalling Saudi students studying in Canadian universities. Western democracies should adopt this boycott, divest and sanction policy against Saudi Arabia and any government found complicit. If only....
31
This is absolutely horrific. We should not not let this great man die in vain. Flood the internet with his columns that criticized Saudi Arabia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/10/06/read-j...
10
Pray tell--from all the comments--what does this have to do with President Trump? And why should the US get involved on an international government level in an abduction/killing/unknown disappearance of a minor foreign journalist, not a US citizen, on foreign soil? Because he was a critic of the President, we should condemn one of our allies and hurl accusations at them? This is diplomacy?
3
@toddchow
It connects to President Trump in that he turns a blind eye to the myriad outrages perpetrated by his favorite strong men. His ignorance of or disinterest in murdered Russian dissidents or journalists; murdered Filipino drug dealers; and the (most likely) assassination of Kashoggi provide a green light to dictators around the globe. Do whatever you like; America's asleep at the wheel.
@toddchow Trump has called journalists "the enemy of the people" and given encouragement at his rallies for his followers to attack them. This and his uncritical support of the ruling Saudi prince gave this prince the green light to do this. Would never have happened under our last honorable president, Obama.
11
@toddchow, oh come now. Trump & family are buddies with the Saudi regime. A real leader with humanitarian and democratic values, and who is morally grounded, would issue a firm and loud criticism of ANY state murder of a journalist-turned government critic. But Trump hates journalists and cozies up to authoritarian regimes. And he has no interest in democratic (small d) values. That's immoral and pretty damned anti-American.
Why doesnt Nikki Haley say something?
She is leaving anyway- if she if scared of offending Trump who himself has declared love for dictators- why not represent Old America for once and speak up ? Trump wont notice- he is off in Idaho showing cartoons to his elder-hostile rallies.
12
Trump will be giving the Saudi a thumbs-up. Putin's Puppet loves dictators !
3
This is an issue between Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The United States has no business getting involved in it.
1
@Kurt Pickard
This man was a legal resident of the USA and was a reporter for the Washington Post.
17
@Kurt Pickard
And a graduate of Indiana State University.
7
The Saudi leadership brutally murdered a journalist.
Trump is jealous and laments that he can't do the same.
5
Unless Mr. Erdogan wishes to soon be seen as a weak, ineffective and neutered leader of Turkey, he'd best ratchet up his security & intelligence forces and demonstrate to MBS why this was a poor decision.
Video footage & face recognition in hand, most to this Saudi team can be identified. Like the Mossad, Turkey needs to hunt them down. Otherwise, Erdogan will be considered a poodle to a Saudi playboy.
8
He should have flown to Canada or one of the dwindling number of remaining civilized democracies and asked for assylum. Given his position as a dissenting journalist critical of such a known dictatorship, he would have had a great case. Then he could contemplate marriage without needing anything from Saudi thugs.
Sick to my stomach that a US president would choose Saudi Arabia as the first country to visit rather than one of our true friends and family such as the UK or Canada.
15
Our erstwhile allies...
Don't ya just love the Saudi's? Assassinate someone on another countries soil. (yeah rubes, I know the embassy is technically Saudi property) Sounds like Russia or some other criminal state.
5
Once again, Trump remains silent-silent on Putin, plays footsie with NK's leader, soaked up the glitter from his Saudi visit--and as noted by another reader, gives not thought to human rights! Then there's Nicki Haley folding her tent to feed at the trough of Trump--Jared a genious----plueessseeeee!!!!
2
And our President did a sword dance
3
It seems that the Crown Prince has learned from the Russians: do what you want, kill who you want, deny, deny, deny and in a couple of weeks the furor dies down. If that fails, instigate a crisis somewhere else and let the world re-focus on the newest news moment.
6
Saudi 911 perpetrators, Putin, Kim Jong Un, Ji Jinping, Duterte are all on the list of murderers and murderous repressive countries whose leaders Trump admires. For gods sake the Saudis. Nightmare presidency.
17
Khashoggi knew his life was in danger. Why did he enter the consulate? There have been reports about getting documents relating to his planned marriage to a Turkish citizen but why would that require anything from the Saudi government?
If Erdogan stopped mismanaging his country's economy he would not need the goodwill and help of thuggish foreign powers and could do more to resist them.
6
@Richard Schumacher
In certain countries it is required that one presents documents proving one is no longer married, or proof of divorce, in order to marry again. That's probably what he was hoping to get at the consulate.
3
@Richard Schumacher this has nothing t do with Erdogan and it happened at a foreign territory which is a consulate. He went there because he needed hids divorce papers in order to get married to his Turkish fiance. Get your facts straight before commenting here.
4
@Richard Schumacher
The document was apparently needed to certify that he was divorced from his former wife.
4
If this is true, Saudi Arabia is a rogue state that should not have a seat at the table of civilized nations. Deny MBS the right to visit the rest of the world.
39
911 Bin Laden and family supporters. Trump has no respect for human life. Lives and details get in his way. He makes a smirk throwing towels to disaster victims. He mocks the handicapped. His opponents from the election Rubio ams Cruz who he insulted - they kiss his ring let’s say! Enough with Saudis!
3
If?
1
@Kai How many IOUs the Saudis are holding? That could be a tricky maneuver.
You would think this story would be in the wall Street Journal. Don’t see it today in the top stories.
19
@James. it’s there. I’m reading it.
@James https://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-ramps-up-pressure-on-saudis-over-mis...
Our government is aware of what did happen as our technological prowess is so great that we even monitored the German Chancellor's phone. NSA has all the data but if we start talking it would be very difficult for our Secretary of State to keep harping on Iran as the main State sponsor of terrorism in the world. MBS is a well known abductors of Lebanese Prime Minister, Saad Hariri. MBS did not pay any price for it. Our government must stop supporting this maniac be it in Yemen or Syria. It is time to sanction MBS personally for his terrorist behavior at the least.
41
@Wizarat MBS may be a ruthless, corrupt, homicidal autocrat, but he's our ruthless, corrupt , homicidal autocratic.
The so-called president won't do a thing.
After all, the Saudis let him touch the magic glow ball.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+saudi+trip&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS767...
35
@CliffHanger
..and they let him dance with them in one of those bizarre rituals so loved in anti-female "cultures". Romantic. Moon. June. Loon.
3
Do the Saudis really want us to believe that Khashoggi left the consulate and left his fiancee standing on the sidewalk? That's nonsense.
He braved the consulate only to get copies of papers he needed to get a marriage license. A man that eager to marry would not leave her standing alone and in pain.
37
Maybe he got cold feet?
What kind of world are we living in when officials from the highest levels in North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia can order the assassination on foreign soil of those who speak out against them and get away with it? Even worse, the current administration will ignore it. Oh wait, maybe Nikki Haley will make a comment before she leaves her post. Don't hold your breath.
38
While this incident is barbaric, The New York Times needs to cover Yemen front and center. It is buried on the back page, if at all. Why do we hear so little about the Saudi-fueled barbarism there? Why is this not as important as one journalist going missing?
41
@Sandi
No it doesn't.
No one gives a hoot about Yemen. If it wasn't about suni/shi'ia Islam, the Saudi's and Houthi's would still be fighting over something: Water, food, housing, borders, etc.
@Sandi
Who is supplying the munitions to the Saudis to carry out their barbaric acts in Yemen? Three guesses.
4
@John It only takes one guess.
1
There is a case of Soviet double agent and chemical poisoning that is relentlessly in the news for the past couple of months, as it should be. However, for the media the Russians are villains and the Saudis and Israelis that routinely bump off people it is a short story.
21
@AKA
BECAUSE they ARE villians.
1
The reaction from lawless WH on a barbaric brutal killing of Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi is simply outrageous.
Pompeo passing by on WH lawn, suggesting that Saudi government should investigate is cynically laughable.
The same government who has been accused of savage murder should investigate?
No wonder, that this administration embraced the most brutal, gruesome dictators, remember his first state visit was to Saudi, who projected his image all over their country, he was dancing and having his best time there.
Now he is hinting on Kim's visit to US specifically at Mar a Lago.
Great, who is next ruthless killer on his calendar. Putin, and whoever best fulfills his insatiable, gluttonous greed for money.
WILL THIS NIGHTMARE EVER END!!!
30
@faivel1
Pompeo passing by on WH lawn, suggesting that Saudi government should investigate is cynically laughable.
Indeed, just as laughable as any Russian suggestion for an investigation or cynical ploy.
3
Saudi Arabia Crown Prince Muhammed bin Salman and Turkey president Erdogan are both dictators, and both of them do their things using religion their cover up, 9/11 terrorists 13 of them were Saudi and we did not do any think about it why because OIL, Turkey is/was a close friend to USA, but this Erdogan taking Turks to dark ages, and she is a member of NATO and this moron buying missiles from Trump's buddy Putin, Erdogan knew it this man was going to kill, and they killed him and take his body with them, people should not take the blame for all those thinks, but their goverinment must, l am a 84 years old Muslmi/Turk/American man an my and my kids and my grand kids will die for this country
17
@akin caldiran Akin you have no idea what you are talking about. Erdogan voted to his office like Trump did. Political bias blinds you. Get your facts straight Turkey and Saudi Arabia are not in good terms anyway. BTW I'm also a Turkish/American citizens living in the US for 30 years.
Trump must be thrilled one less reporter at the Washington Post.
17
And what was Trump busy doing? Leading chants of “Lock her up!”with his deplorables.
Yet another Nixon moment ~ What did the President (Kushner) know and when did he know it?
36
@CD USA The genius?
2
MBS may be modern in dress and technology but he is medieval in spirit. The answer is the same as it has been for my entire adult life: move to non-carbon based energy and tell the Saudis to go pound their limitless supply of sand.
54
When I read this shocking article and the smart comments accompanying it, I mourn for the decent America that is lost to 45’s mean-spirited, autocratic leadership: crass, selfish, full of emoluments conflicts and unable to stand up and morally condemn Saudi Arabia’s outrageous murder of a journalist.
America’s loss of her moral compass makes me lose hope, as I see the full indecency of a new America replacing a country that used to strive to do the right things. Americans are going to forget that country. I hope I am wrong.
45
Perhaps bin Salman shared his opinion of Mr. Khashoggi with his good friends Mr. Kushner and Ms. Trump?
We actually have diplomatic relations this this ghastly excuse for a country?
29
They're our friends!
5
Oh sure, 15 out of 19 on 9/11 were our "friends"
1
Can anyone think of a better argument for ending oil purchases from the house of saud, and restricting them to North America sources?
33
Wondering whether this is how far trump & his enablers would go (to halt negative coverage) IF they could get away with it.... Just sayin.
14
Maybe you can somehow tie Trump to the Salmonella issues in the beef plants, too. Poisonings in England by Russia. Or to traumatic brain injuries aamong football players ....
Or hearing damage to whales from sonic testing by the Navy in the 2000s. It's all Trump, all the time.
3
@Howard Beale I find your comment grotesque. One can disagree with President Trump and even dislike him, but what you say is ugly and uncalled for. If this is the best that freedom of speech offers, no wonder American society is such a mess.
3
@Dlud Are you joking? All you have to do is listen to Donald Trump speak for 30 seconds, and it becomes completely clear that he would be assassinating people left and right, both Americans and foreigners, if he thought he could get away with it. Listen to him fondly talk about Rodrigo Duarte and Duarte's systematic murder of people he deems "undesirable", and then tell me that he is above ordering murders of his political rivals both at home and abroad.
He said it during the campaign, for god's sake. He literally said "Yeah, I could just murder a liberal in public and I wouldn't lose support."
Does that sound like a man about whom it is "uncalled for" to discuss his desire to kill people that he views as enemies?
1
I hope no one is waiting for the government of the US to deplore this--because we just adore our "allies", the Saudis. After all we help them to starve children in Yemen and in all other worthy endeavors.
38
People, Trump is a dictator in every aspect of his leadership. The only thing holding him back from being a benevolent dictator is our constitution (which I bet he would love to rewrite). Since he has carte blanche with the republicans, decries the free press as the enemy and puts incompetent people in places of leadership, it is only time until we are more similar to Saudi Arabia the different. At least our women have been driving for over a Century.
Vote or go backwards.
39
@Gazbo Fernandez
A rewrite of the constution is in the works by Koch Broz INC. and 28 states that have already signed on. 35 states are needed.
3
@Gazbo Fernandez He’s not benevolent.
1
And these are our friends.
10
For a country which regularly beheads its citizens and amputates the hands of convicted thieves, if Mr. Khashoggi was indeed killed in the Saudi Consulate, which seems more and more likely, I guess dismembering the body would not have posed any serious problems if they flew in an experienced team.
18
Maybe our Secret Genius can figure this out by calling his good buddy Salman.
48
@Concerned for the Future
Indeed. Perhaps his father in law, the Stable Genius himself, will consult the Saudi's glowing orb for the answer.
8
It's time to seize all property and accounts owned by Saudi Royal family and embargo Saudi oil he he he... They got away after 9/11, not on this one!!!
63
Saudi Arabia recently reversed a two-year trend of declining rental revenue at Trump's hotel in NYC, so I would expect the Trump administration to remain silent.
60
This article fails to mention that, according to the Washington Post, "U.S. intelligence services intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture Saudi journalist and government critic Jamal Khashoggi, whose disappearance in Turkey last week threatens to damage the warm ties between the kingdom and Washington. The Saudis were discussing a plan to lure Khashoggi back to the kingdom, The Washington Post reported, citing a person familiar with the communications, which were intercepted before he vanished. Khashoggi, a columnist for the newspaper, was last seen entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2 and is feared to be detained or dead."
And we are pretending that it's a "Wuuuhhh happened?" moment?
Yet, "US intelligence had clear evidence that the Saudi journalist and Washington Post columnist was about to be kidnapped and possibly worse."
And we just stood by and waited for it to happen. Nice friends we are, and we expect Turkey to smile and come begging at our table?
But we can't upset our Saudi oil partners, so we are asking them "to investigate themselves…"
You know where that will go…
49
Jared, you better watch out. You might already know too much.
16
I would expect nothing less from the Saudi government than killing and dismembering someone who doesn't agree with the edicts of that religious dictatorship, which does not believe in civil rights, LGBT rights, religious minority rights, the rule of law, and especially women's rights.
Rest in peace Mr. Khashoggi. You'll be remembered as a man of truth and moral integrity.
43
President Putin has shown that no one really cares if a national is murdered or almost killed abroad by its own Secret Services.
There was no reaction in Washington, nor Berlin nor Paris. The UK stood there alone and powerless.
The power vacuum created by the US leaving the international playing field has been filled up fast by cruel autocrats.
It shows too that the EU is a paper tiger, teethless and without a backbone.
23
This MBS guy, just like Saddam and other mentally sick leaders, will end up with similar ending. The audacity of the operation is that they dispatch the forensic doctor for chopping up this poor guy. How could this Universe allow such a horrific deed happens without justice?
When I look at MBS, the way he look at others, it emits very negative vibes and absolutely no humility. None whatsoever.
18
@Alex Kind of like our POTUS...
3
Please read this...
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/report-the-u-s-heard-saudis-talk-...
Report: The U.S. Intercepted Saudi Communications About Capturing Khashoggi
The brave, intrepid press is the "enemy of the people" right?
His fiancée asking the wrong person to investigate this grizzly murder.
23
It makes one wonder how many other people who have displeased dictators have quietly vanished.
Or have died in mysterious circumstances, or were found dead of unnatural 'natural' causes.
33
What's DJT going to do about this?
18
@Jean du Canada Nada Zip Nuttin' Zilch Bupkis Rien Nichts
10
@Jean du Canada - The answer is not a thing. Those are his friends and his kind of people... rich and ruthless. If DJT could have reporters murdered and get away with it like the Al-Saud's he would do it.
4
@Jean du Canada
Make sure no corroborating evidence is looked into.
The new crown Prince is certainly establishing his authority:
Trade sanctions, blockades against Qatar.
Jailing and expropriation of the wealth of of weathy Saudis.
Extermination of the population of Yemen. (Aided by the US refuelling their bombers.)
Jailing of women who advocated women's' rights.
Taking a page out of Putin's playbook and assassinating journalists.
63
When it comes to moral ascendancy and human rights, neither Saudi Arabia nor Turkey have any.
Turkey is a failed democracy (Kemalism is dead) and now a quasi religious dictatorship with a wannabe Caliph, and Saudi Arabia is a family dictatorship and the country that gave us 9-11.
A pox on both houses.
41
@Ernest Montague
I despise the Saudis, but let's not forget that Erdogan had his thugs beat up protesters on the streets of Washington D. C.
3
Who to believe. Turkey with dictator Erdogan in charge or Saudi Arabia's dictator Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
They are both The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren's buddies. Sharks. Sharks eat each other and anyone who gets in their way.
Too bad WE THE PEOPLE - average people around the world - are the ones whose lives will be destroyed with their demented power struggles unless WE stop them. NOW.
41
Saudi Arabia is a nominal ally of the US but that is just a stratagem on their part. Saudi Arabia is de facto an enemy of the USA. They are waging covert war against us. Their religious government is the primary funding source for global terrorism training.
46
@Federalist
True. Saudi + Pakistan + GOP affinity for Saudis = Islamic terrorism.
15
Crickets chirping over at the UN, where of course Saudi Arabia is currently a member of the UN Human Rights Council. Their term is running from 2016-2019.
28
@Amanda Sakakini - We can't know what is being discussed at the UN. it's certainly conceivable that UN as a body no longer feels it necessary to include the US in talks or discussions given the recent literally laughable performance of the "president" of the United States.
17
Why such a horrific conclusion while the police have not completed their investigation? Which brings to mind, what are the screenings for those who arrive, and depart, on private jets? We know they don’t wait in line with the rest of us. Abduction seems more likely than this grotesque story.
3
@Dee
Keep in mind the consulate in which this happened. If Saudi justice can put a women to death because she has regularly spoken again the ruling king, what comes next? Ironically, Trump has close ties to such a dictatorship.
9
@Dee - Grotesque the story is, but it might also be the case that both occurred. First the abduction, which was then followed by Kashoggi's murder. If true, it's monstrously evil.
14
Ironically, Trump would love to severely punish women who dare to criticize him in any way.
2
This is barbarism. No civilized nation on Earth should maintain relations with SA going forward, if these suspicions prove correct.
55
Perhaps this killing, if indeed it happened, doesn't amount to much. It should not surprise anyone, only reinforce again what the Saudi "government," and especially the people who rationalize alliance with it, are. They should never be expected to behave decently, or even in their long term interests, when it's inconvenient for them in the short run.
19
This is revolting. We should not make alliances with governments that are so barbaric and inhumane.
28
No one in the GOP cares about that anymore.
13
@Dominic Yes!!! As soon as we are different from governments that are so barbaric and inhumane! ;)
4
"Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called on the Saudi government 'to support a thorough investigation of Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance and to be transparent about the results of that investigation.'"
After the Kavanaugh hearings, we have a pretty good idea of what the Trump administration means when it refers to a "thorough investigation." Clearly the Saudis have nothing to fear from the U.S.
102
@yanksip
You are right when it comes to the Saudis. It's international and nothing we will do about it. But, as for Kavanaugh, the Democrats would have had it the way the Queen of Hearts would have - "Sentence first, verdict afterwards."
1
@yanksip
Scoring political points off a man's disappearance and probable death. Priceless.
6
@DaveD Sorta like Benghazi?
1
The accusations of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi are absolutely horrific.
Given the parties involved, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the US how can we even begin to expect the truth?
All 3 countries are 'ruled' by leaders who have no interest in the free press. All 3 countries are 'ruled' by leaders who make vast use of the "fake news" claim to question all facts not to their liking.
All 3 countries are 'ruled' by leaders who care more about their personal position of authority and money than the real rule of law. Laws exist for the leaders convenience only.
And the 'rulers' of the US and Saudi Arabia have serious questions of a secretive financial relationship which transcends and clouds any political relationship between the two countries.
Unless Mr. Khashoggi is seen alive and well and interviewed - not on tape - in real time, we may never know his fate.
Will the citizens of the US accept this kind of international diplomacy that our current 'ruler' is advocating through silence and feigned concern?
72
you are actually lumping the US in with Saudi Arabia and turkey? seriously? maybe you should be thinking about emigrating somewhere else. where it could be better than in the US is completely beyond me though.
1
Two planes? One stop in Dubai upon its return?
I would not be surprised if the Israelis worked with the Saudis. The mission seems like "Murder on the Orient Express": everyone had a hand in it so no one had a hand in it.
I would not be surprised if the WH knew something was in the works.
And I would not be surprised if Nicki Haley resigned so suddenly because she saw that this murder would roil the UN and wanted to make clear that she had nothing to do with it.
73
Here's a mental health opportunity to form an opinion on a political matter that does NOT reduce down to "it's Trump's fault". Afterall, our tight relationship with the Saudi kingdom is about a half century old. We've had quite a number of allies that are truly, hostile adversaries of the free press.
12
@carl bumba True that the US/Saudi relationship could be described as "it's complicated", and it's hardly Trump's *fault*. Nobody believes he ordered the (alleged) hit.
That notwithstanding, different presidents and politicians have had different relationships to the Saudi kingdom. It has been a US ally since it discovered oil. However it has been more or less close. During Obama the relationship was decidedly cool, while under Trump Saudi Arabia can do no wrong, it seems.
15
@ Johnny A. let's not forget that Obama's foreign policy was a disaster. while he always talked the good talk about peace and compromise and good relations, he gave away the farm. bad iran nuclear deal, bad decisions on NK, the list goes on and on
1
Under all the Bushes and even before, our relationship has been very close, even corrupt.
2
This killing, the atrocities of the war in Yemen, and the kidnaping of the Lebanese Prime Minister offer us a clear ideia about the character of Prince Mohamed, we should not let him get to powerful as he could present a risk to humanity
45
@John
It's too late to prevent Saudia from getting too big. Their financial hand is everywhere in the west. Oil was yesterday. They are so interconnected , they are virtually too big to fail.
1
President Trump please don’t sell your soul in order to please the Saudis, this killing should not be left unpunished.
30
@Observer
The man has no soul. He wants to do business in SA so he'll continue to stay quiet, but do look for updates and hourly tweets on Taylor Swift though.
29
@Observer
That ship sailed a very long time ago, even before he became a president.
16
How do you sell something you don't have?
5
The murder of this journalist, and many others around the world, is the canary-in-the- coal mine warning for Liberal Governments everywhere. When press is under assault, authoritarianism is rising. The fact that Saudi Arabia reached out and killed this journalist in another country is shocking and raises the threat level to red.
126
It is clear that the US has entered into another isolationist period. This is also supported in that a majority of US Citizens are tired of being the World's police force while other countries sit back and do nothing. If other nations are so outraged, let them start footing the bill and sending their soldiers to deal with despotic regimes and kingdoms.
8
@Hello You do not speak for the majority of Americans.
40
If the majority you reference is tired of being the world’s police force: then why do they support funding a military that dwarfs all others?
32
@ virginia--so we can be sure to keep ourselves safe. so when the you know what hits the fan, we will be ready. not a very difficult concept to grasp.
What is more disgusting: the way someone can be murdered with impunity this way, or the silence from the "leader" of the "free world"?
91
@Sam I am
But, but the Saudi's are our friends. And besides they have friends in very high places like 45, Jared and Co. and the Bush's.
48
@Sam I am The CIA and Mossad work with the Saudis...
5
@Sam I am
Which leader? Obama rubber stamped the Saudi aggression in Yemen with impunity.
The US has supported dictators in the past if we thought it served our own interests, but it is much worse since Donald Trump took office. Our habit of supporting vicious dictators is another of the forces operating to dbring us down. Our continued alliance with a ruthless Saudi Arabia is shameful.
62
Trump doesn't hesitate to criticize Taylor Swift because she supports a Democratic candidate in Tennessee, but he's afraid to say a word when a ruthless despot murders a journalist inside a consulate. This is yet another example of how Trump allows his business interests to come before his duties as president. He has entered into agreements to develop hotels in Saudi Arabia, and his hotel in D. C. brings in hundreds of thousands every year from Saudi government officials. He has never condemned the Saudis for their involvement in 9/11, and in spite of that involvement he didn't include that country in his Muslim travel ban. And now there's not a peep out of him about this horrible murder. He is a coward and a weakling and walking a very thin line toward being a traitor.
263
No US sanctions on Saudi, however heinous their crimes.
11
@Ms. Pea
He's too busy not reading the UN Warning on Climate Change, not saying a word on hurricane Michael, celebrating partisanship on the Supreme Court, holding campaign rallies around the country on the taxpayer's dime and generally "seeing what will happen." Give the guy a break, he hasn't played a round of golf in two weeks.
72
@Eliot
Not for anything but Obama was on the road quite a bit too. Still the man will not act on this at all.
Words have consequences. Trump’s “fake news” charges to discredit the press has been adopted by autocrats around the world. Trump’s , kushner’s , Netanyahu’s best friend Saudi crown prince, Mohamed bin Salman appears confident that nothing will come from this murder. MBS secret police also abducted a Saudi woman in the UAE who had been calling the right to drive.
Meantime at home: Trump is busy trying to destroy Dr Ford as well as women who protested Brett Kavanaugh’s elevation to the Court. These women, btw, are referred as a paid “mob”.
86
I can't help but think that Trump's repeated labeling of journalists as "enemies of the people" emboldened the Saudis to think they could murder one of their own with impunity. The disgrace that is Trump continues. The suppurating wound he has inflicted on our country and the world continues to fester. The midterms will tell us whether we have sufficiently waked up. In the meantime, journalists will continue to die, man made climate change will be accelerated, and our country will slide further towards Third World status.
Just another day for Trump.
58
I will be shocked if your President and this administration does anything. Sure the appearance of action but nothing substantial. I would not be surprised to hear DT voice his support for the official Saudi story.
US relations with the Kingdom have never been better.
US relations with Turkey have not been this bad in a long time.
And as noted by many, Donald Trump does not support a free press and likely feels something closer to disdain.
It will be up to the rest of us, Canada & Europe to support Turkey. It sure seems like Turkey has some hard evidence and knows for certain Khashoggi died at the hands of these Saudi mercenaries.
It is sad what has become of the US leadership.
51
@David W. Yes, since most of us are basically powerless to do anything about the direction of this administration (until Nov 6), I do hope that Canada and Europe can lead the way.
23
@David W. The president has opened the door to hatred of all kinds including towards the press.
Of course this gives a green light to the world to proceed with whatever nefarious acts they were considering anyway.
Let's see what the response is from the US Administration. Along with dividing our country our leader has erased the US claim of being a morality leader!
8
@David W. I would take issue with only one part of your posting which is "It will up to the rest of us...to support Turkey." Erdgogan is not your friend. His thugs beat up Americans on US soil when he visited here. So I would caution about cutting him any slack.
3
Never could figure out why so many movers and shakers (including liberals) were so falling all over themselves escorting the Saudi Prince around town when he was here in the U.S. a few months ago. Perhaps they were mesmerized by his blue jeans. Guessing some of them may be waking up in a cold sweat on those upcoming cold dark winter nights.
Unconscionable the U.S. government is not kicking up a major fuss about Mr. Khashoggi’s (one assumes gruesome) disappearance.
40
If MBS ordered the murder of this American journalist he should be loudly condemned.In a police state such as Turkey there is plenty of evidence with cameras and police.Remember during the election when Trump was so outraged at the murder of Americans at the hands of ISIS.Will he be as outraged at the gruesome murder of an American journalist by a Saudi totalitarian regime.Forget that MBS flatters Trump - remember that Trump took an oath to protect Americans- that includes journalists!
38
The Saudi government is right now in the process of murdering, with U.S. help, thousands of innocent Yemeni civilians, so it is not in the least bit surprising that they would murder Jamal Khashoggi.
53
Reading about Erdogan seeking justice is hilarious when he had his bodyguards beat protesting American citizens in Washington, DC just last year. What was the result? Nothing of course. Trump loves him some despots.
45
It sounds like Turkey has decided to leave enough wiggle room to allow for several theories for his disappearance. It does not want to directly accuse the worlds largest gas station of his murder.
17
Yesterday a legal resident of the US, and who knows, tomorrow could be an expat US citizen. Do we have to be "another brick in the wall" to live safe.
9
We no longer need the Saudi's climate destroying oil, we can do that ourselves now.
So the question is what is their hold over the trump administration?
Simply trumps' fascination with dictators?
26
@Robert FL no, it simply his Real Estate Interests; luxury hotels and golf courses...and let's not forget about their investments here in the U.S. and their deep pockets.
30
In other word his endless corruption in a myriad of ways.
1
"Turkish employees of the residence had unexpectedly been told not to report for work that day, the newspaper said."
We have out answer.
Remember Otto Warmbier? Don't expect Trump to really care. He made a fuss over Otto's death in North Korea and blamed Kim. Now he said he and Kim are in love and Kim writes him such beautiful letters. Being that love is blind we will never hear anything about Otto anymore. And we sure can be assured Trump won't want to be bothered about Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance, a U.S. resident, The Saudis literally laid out the red carpet for Trump on his visit to Riyadh last year. He was treated like a grand sultan. So why would he want to rock the boat?
43
We all know what Trump will conclude. "Saudi Arabia said they didn't do it, so they didn't do it."
Why would anyone expect anything different from Trump?
Putin said he didn't do it, so he didn't do it.
Kavanaugh said he didn't do it, so he didn't do it.
Trump said he didn't do it, so he didn't do it. No Collusion.
103
The name of this game is Intimidation. The method is to silence critics. The objective is to hold power by serving the people loads of positive, aggressively forceful news bites. The game is won when only yes men surround the ego of the crown or oval office.
Each country has its own style of power grab but many of the tactics are the same across any growing dictatorship - suppress critical press while creating propaganda press, fix the courts, revere military might, have lots of shots of crowds showering love on leader, target minorities, expand religious and/or patriotic influence in politics, appear to take money from rivals to give to the people. The final blow to democracy is when the leader denies facts making people believe nonsensical things like oil is good, friends are enemies, bad press is fake, being rich means high IQ and a man of the people.
Meanwhile the common folk slowly are normalized to what is happening allowing more and more freedoms to slip away. Fear of each other keeps the masses from uniting. Fear of reprisal keeps rivals at bay.
30
Since college, many years ago, I keep being drawn back to books on the conditions that bring out the worst in human behavior---or more specifically, how do seemingly educated individuals, living in what would appear decent living conditions to horrible things to other human beings ---and, with a smile, deny any knowledge of these wrong doings. I have not figured out an answer to the question, and satisfy myself with the rationalization that these individuals must have trouble sleeping at night---but, after two years of Trump---it would appear they all sleep very soundly at night.
24
While this is a very sad story it would seem that since this occurred at Saudi consulate we must respect their sovereignty and allow them to lead the investigation. If questions still persist I am sure there are additional post investigation processes that can take place.
1
I have read in several places that US intelligence may have known about this plot. Did they? And if so, did they do anything, tell anyone, raise an alarm, warn the victim? America used to be a moral authority in the world. Now we have no such authority with the Trump Administration in power. Authoritarians all over the world must be breathing a sigh of relief and carrying out their plots and murders that they couldn't get away with before. This is just one of them. There will be more--many more. And we will be silent just as we are today.
14
Our CIA famously assisted in the arrest of Nelson Mandela by South Africa. Enough said.
13
I wonder how essential Saudi Arabia is to the world economy? With fracking the USA is an oil exporter. Canada, my home country, has vast amounts of (dirty) oil. These resources alone should be able to sustain us as we sanction Saudi Arabia.
Further fantasy: Why not isolate SA by heeding warnings on global warming and quickly move to more efficient less toxic sources of power?
28
All these articles are very interesting. But, unfortunately, I have a persistent feeling that we will not know the truth. If you are involved in the highest echelons of power. But I like this reasoning.
1
Pompeo wants the Saudis to investigate themselves?!!? That should be very objective.... Next will we hear him say that Trump should take over the Mueller probe?
113
Not Trump you twiddle.
Ivanka.
Or Jared.
Or better yet, Rudy! He was a prosecutor...
5
Trump's friends tend to behave this way. Putin's poisoning of Skripal and his daughter is just one of many examples.
71
The Trump administration's silence on this travesty is deafening. The President blares his horn on pop stars and football players but is thoroughly inept at confronting rich despots, the wealth of whom he might need to tap some day.
137
@Mamie TroyA brilliant observation & beautifully articulated.
9
@Mamie Troy Given Trump's relationships with Russian oligarchs, he went to the Saudi royal family and asked them to dispose of this journalist for him to "kill two birds with one stone".
Would that surprise you at all to know that?
1
We persecuted the Russians for alleged poisoning, although “we give” Carte Blanche to the Saudis, and Israelíes to do as they please.
23
Saudi Arabia knows it will never be penalized for its compliance in the murder. It is still USA”s trusted ally despite the involvement of its citizens in 9/11 attack and remains so even after its carnage in Yemen.
81
@Mohammad Azeemullah
SA a trusted ally ? Obama was cool to SA. as an honest person should be.
And we coddle these folks and fret about the Iranians. Follow the money...
137
A Saudi well known journalist walks in Saudi Arabian consulate to get a marriage license. He is killed and chopped to pieces.
If this is real, grotesquely real, it is not just a crazy satanic act, is cause for USA to seize diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia unless Prince Mohammed bin Salman - for he must have ordered the gruesome execution - is being brought to the International Court of Justice!
101
Wow! Things like that still happen in the world!
3
@RioConcho
Technology has changed, but people really haven't. Things aren't much different since Roman times, we just have better tools to do it with.
24
@RioConcho One thing that HAS changed is that there was a time when, in response to an act like this, the United States would strongly and with determination, denounce the murder and take immediate action to punish Saudi Arabia with sanctions and embargo. This is an overt act of war.
9
@rixax
I would suggest that before sanctions or embargoes are applied that Turkey produce some proof. They've alleged that Mr. Khashoggi was murdered and dismembered. If they have this level of detail produce the proof. Allegations alone is not enough to start punishing other countries. Once this proof is supplied then I agree with you completely.
I know that Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil and wields outsize influence in OPEC, but still, I can't understand why the US has long been such a strong supporter and ally of this despotic country. But if we didn't distance ourselves from them after 9/11 (15 of the 19 conspirators were Saudis), I don't think it'll happen just because they murdered one more person.
79
Let us not forget how Saudi Arabia reacted when the Canadian government protested about the treatment of a Saudi woman with Canadian connections who was arrested for her activist activities. The Saudis broke all ties with Canada even to the extent of recalling Saudi students studying at Canadian universities. This extreme action against one of the US's closest allies was greeted with a mild reaction from the Trump administration which failed to defend a democracy against a dictatorial regime. The same lack of action is happening regarding the probable murder of a US resident and Saudi critic, Jamal Khashoggi, as the President effects a "know nothing" attitude. This incident shows the true colors of the axis of the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel, as they pursue their policies toward Iran and in Yemen. Who are the good guys here? Certainly not the Saudis.
183
@John sadly it also seems clear we are not the good guys either.
29
@Thankful68
We, the people, still have good hearts, as most of the voices in the comments indicate. It's the Trump administration who are not the good guys - silence equates complicity. Minority rules this country now. Where is our own true democracy?
1
@Thankful68
That's an understatement. And it sure didn't begin with this administration.
Perhaps we are the naive lemmings who live in a dream world of civility & morals.
Our elected officials do not demonstrate these values & the next generation has learned well. Dark Age indeed.
36
@Mahesh - well said. And getting darker.
3
This is an internal Saudi matter. Any nation that offends the dignity and sovereignty of Saudi Arabia will soon experience its righteous response. Canada was an example. The same goes for journalists too.
In the meantime, please accept this ceremonial sword and this promise of $ billions in military contracts.
149
@Harold Hill It was done on Turkish soil so it's an external matter.
1
@Wayne
the Saudi consulate is effectively Saudi soil as far as the law goes in the first instance (diplomatic privilege etc )
however the present Turkish authorities /leadership etc may take a different view ..
@patchelli45 I listened to the experts. They said a consulate is different from an embassy. That the Turkish police could investigate the consulate which is not the same as the embassy. It serves an entirely different function like our consulate in Benghazi.
Kind of hard for the US to sanction Russia for the attempted murder of its citizens in another country and then turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia murdering one of its citizens in Turkey.
205
@John ... but not hard to criticize Taylor Swift for promoting voter registration. Revealing, no?
6
The Human Rights office of the United Nations asked Saudi Arabia and Turkey to provide an explanation for Mr. Kashoggi's disappearance. It is to laugh!
26
@Stephen Kurtz No worries. Nikki is on it.
3
@Stephen Kurtz
The UN is the biggest waste of taxpayer money. They have accomplished little and take up precious real estate and parking spaces in NYC. What a joke. tight there next to 45.
1
All UN member countries should impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia.
Do not buy their oil. Do not let their planes travel to the West.
They are an outlaw nation. They must confirm to some basic norms of behavior in our world community of nations.
The leaders of SA must be arrested and interrogated when they travel outside their borders.
108
@Mike Persaud, if it wasn't done after 9-11, it won't be done now.
46
@Mike Persaud,
We did nothing after 9/11. Why would the US do anything now?
8
The scale of the Saudi crown prince’s urge for total control – both inside and outside his country – was apparent when he had Lebanon’s Sunni prime minister Saad Hariri put under house arrest in November 2017. Hariri was forced to resign because of his tolerance toward the Iran-backed Hezbollah. Emmanuel Macron flew to Riyadh to meet Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman (MBS), securing Hariri’s release days after.
Don’t expect Trump to speak to MBS and enquire what really happened, because he hates journalists. By calling the press “the enemy of the people,” he has in fact given autocrats across the globe a free pass to silence and kill journalists and reporters.
If Khashoggi had been murdered and his body dismembered, MBS aimed to send a gruesome message to his critics and opponents at home and abroad that there is no way to escape his clutches. The new procedure to silence criticism would be a departure from previous praxis, which mainly involved arrest and abduction, but no assassination.
177
I wonder if the US government’s response would have been different if Khashogji was an American of European dissent?
45
@Curious
Or if Kashoggi had worked for Fox News instead of the Washington Post?
32
@Curious
We can conclude with certainty that the White House would be making a lot more noise about this murder if Khashogji was a white Evangelical from Alabama. The WH has zero concern whatsoever about human rights or justice or genocide or murder. But they do care about Evangelical voters. After all, there are not enough billionaires in America to re-elect Trump by themselves.
After Erdogan’s thugs beat up American citizens in Washington DC, he now wants Washington to take the lead?
Erdogan: take care of your own mess
66
@MB - I have a better idea; go harshly after the politicies of both Turkey
AND Saudi Arabia.
27
A question about the reporting. The friends of Mr. Khashoggi who canceled their plans to hold a funeral prayer / demonstration -- were they in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or the U.S.?
9
"I do believe that something terrible happened Mr Kahashoggi, but I do not believe the Saudis are responsible, given their emphatic denial and lack of corroborating evidence." — Susan Collins
560
Sounds familiar. Same talking point, different subject. Vote her out.
46
@RP Smith
Did Susan Collins really say that?
He went in - never came out. So who is responsible Senator?
Never mind, I got it. It's a joke on the Senator.
13
@RP Smith And she is a Senator?
1
Saudi Arabia: our friends. Question: why? Answer: money money money. Solution: Ask Jared to help. He’s our Saudi expert, right?
The utter lack of concern this administration has towards human rights is astonishing and horrifying. And about Mr. Khashoggi, this administration hasn’t uttered a word. But to be fair, past administrations have let Saudi Arabia have a pass for decades. Where did most of the 9/11 terrorists come from? Saudi Arabia. What did we do about that? Bomb Iraq with shock and awe.
313
No, oil, oil, oil. Think about that with every decision you make.
18
@AT According to Nikki Haley, Jared is a “hidden genius,” not to be confused with his father-in-law, a “very stable genius”.
10
Anybody wants a visa? Personal interview appointments are easily available. Come alone.
23
If, indeed Mr. Khashoggi was murdered inside the Saudi embassy, then he was murdered on Saudi soil, as embassies around the world are considered sovereign territories by their owners.
So it wouldn't matter whether this happened in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, or Lower Slobovia -- or the USA, for that matter -- it happened on Saudi soil, and no other country has dominion over that. Opinion, yes, but this has happened before, and opinion from without has little clout.
When we begin holding individual countries accountable for their actions - with their own, or with others -- then we may have begun a realization of civility around the world. Until that happens, we won't have civility anywhere. And this is unlikely with the current administration.
14
@Tom Cotner
Embassies are sovereign territories. Consulates are not.
15
This is the stuff right out of a Sopranos episode. A hit and the victim chopped up and dismembered. Next the Saudis will be telling us Mr. Khashoggi is in the witness protection program, accounting for his absence. Seriously, this is way over the top. But if you think one murdered journalist will interfere with hundreds of billions of dollars in arms sales, war and oil think again. We don't care. As Wolf Blitzer noted after Rand Paul describes the genocide going on in Yemen by the Saudis using our weapons, there are American jobs on the line.
148
This is not "Pulp Fiction". This is not a movie we are watching. This is a rise of forces we fought against in the Second World War who have bamboozled the president in The Oval Office into thinking they are the same as us.
Duarte, Bolsonaro, Salman and Putin are not like us, they are like the Axis we fought and should fight.
366
@rubbernecking I would say this is the rise of forces we fought against in the Second World War that are virtually identical in worldview to the President in The Oval Office; they know it and he knows it.
If there is bamboozling happening, it's happening amongst us, not them. But it's increasingly clear that most of Trump's supporters are getting precisely what they were hoping for.
21
@rubbernecking you are overly optimistic -- they are exactly like us: we set the tone with drone assassinations. CIA black sites, using torture as a state sanctioned interrogation technique, invading other countries on trumped up pretexts, supporting as our allies or potential allies all of the above leaders with the exception of Putin who, while admired by our president, has not actually descended to the low level of the US as his actions have usually been defensive reactions to our pokes. We are the new Axis and you are right, it should be fought.
6
I disagree...Putin has invaded other countries on trumped up reasons....look at Ukraine.
2
Why hasn’t the Trump administration forcefully and vociferously condemned the assassination of Mr. Khashoggi and demanded to know his whereabouts? Are they complicit, don’t want to antagonize a key ally, in favor of murdering journalists? Or perhaps they just don’t care. Either way, our response has been shameful and lacking.
89
No doubt Mr. Trump is 'concerned' that his tacit acceptance of dictators such as Erdogan and Duturte have led to this logical conclusion.
9
The Saudi gov and Exxon are building a huge plastics plant in South Texas near the Gulf Coast - why are we doing business with a government like that and giving them access to our ports. Creepy.
97
@Kay Johnson
BECAUSE ALL PLASTICS, all of it, is petroleum based.
ALL of it.
19
Our president has made it clear that he in no way protects the freedom of the press. The disappearance and most likely death of Khashoggi was a threat and intimidation of the free press of every nation. Will the press now accede to that intimidation, or will journalists across the globe work together to make sure that such threats result in a cacophony of criticism?
34
Pray, do tell me: how many journalists are in jail in the US?
5
@Rose
Should we wait?
Rose, the answer is none. Yet.
9
They didn't saw up any bodies in Pulp Fiction.
They put it one in the trunk of a 1974 Chevy Nova and took it over to Jimmy's house, where the wolf showed up and they dropped it off at a junkyard, after cleaning the car.
6
@Rick
Winston Wolf, a "cleaner" - a 'cleaner' or 'fixer' is one who cleans up after crimes to physically erase their trace or uses pressure or bribes to limit fallout from a criminal act. A cleaner may destroy or remove incriminating evidence. A cleaner may also be a contract killer who commits murder to "clean up" a situation. 'Cleaner' is also a slang term for someone, usually a member of a crime organization or covert government agency, who disposes of a corpse after a hit. (WIKIPEDIA)
4
Reading about this tragedy, what comes to kind is Trump calling American journalists "enemies of the people". We are living during a dangerous time in history when the President of the most respected (at least it was 2 years ago) democracy in the world characterizes dissent in such a way.
135
The real question is "why is Erdogan making such a big deal about this?". He is clearly not enthusiastic about a free press and political dissent. So is he tweaking the US or the Saudis, and if so, for what purpose? Is he playing to a domestic or international audience?
21
Of course it all depends on whether or not the Turks are accurate in their claims.
If they are, then the issue is what recourse should America pursue?
Should Saudi Arabia be treated as though Mr Putin's rules against dissidents are now accepted as an international norm?
Should America and the secular civilized countries of the world sanction the Saudis and thereby push them along with India and Iran to better relations with the Russians?
Strange bedfellows our Mr Trump has put us in company with these days.
10
@TDurk
We've been in a king sized bed with the Wahabbist Saudis for decades, under every president I can remember.
5
Saudi officials could clear this up in a matter of minutes if he is alive. But of course they cannot as he is not. But there will be no price to pay for this Middle Ages act of terror. The overriding fact is there will be no negative consequences much as there never is for a Trumps two other best friends Putin and Kim, both of whom have carried out similar acts.
243
The new "modern" Saudi Arabia of Mohammed Bin Salman.
An autopsy expert? Really?
Donald Trump is not going to care. Trump loves the Saudis for putting on a big show for him when he made his State visit there early in his presidency.
"If he says nice things about me, I'm going to say nice things about him." -- Trump's philosophy of foreign relations. Everything boils down to his personal relationships and whether people show him deference. Trump only cares about whether people personally compliment him and fawn over him.
Which is shameful because if this report is true, this is barbarism.
If the Saudis murdered Mr. Khashoggi in their consulate in Turkey, they should be forced to close their embassy in Washington D.C. If Saudi Arabia cannot operate its official diplomatic missions around the world absent incidents of murdering visitors and hacking them to pieces, decent countries should demand the closure of their embassies.
None of this matters in Trump's America, of course. We have no decency, we have no standards, we have no clearly defined international relationships -- except with strongmen Trump gets along with, as long as he doesn't believe they are stealing our money. Saudi Arabia couldn't be bothered to steal our money, so we can assume Saudi Arabia and Prince Salman are O.K. with The Donald. Rib cutters, bone saws and all.
437
@fast/furious
Our 'friendship' with Saudi Arabia goes back long before the presidency was even a twinkle in Trump's eye. Barbarism has been a staple of their government. Floggings and beheadings are not uncommon.
But it is worse now because, well, because Trump...
3
Khashoggi lived “in self-inposed exile” in the United States. What does that mean? Had he filed an asylum application? Does he have an open case with the US inmigration service, documenting his claim that the Saudi regime threatened him? Did the US govt analyze his claims, at least to the extent of issuing a visa to allow him to live and work in the US?
It can’t be simply a matter of Kashoggi’s subjective beliefs; otherwise thousands of people would show up at our borders, saying they have decided to live in “self-imposed exile” in the United States.
Why did he have to go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul? Why couldn’t it be done at the Saudi embassy in Washington? And since Islam allows multiple wives, who cared whether he was divorced before marrying his Turkish girlfriend?
What were his financial arrangements wirh the Washington Post? If he was an exile, how was he able to afford overseas travel and to promise marriage to a Turkish citizen? I raise these questions because there may be more US government involvement in this tragedy that what we have been told so far.
18
@Iconic Icon
Enough with the distraction technique. *Habeas corpus*
20
More aptly, habeas corpse.
6
He was an American citizen.
16
Shocking and disturbing news. Political murder done in such a ham-handed way. Goodness knows what happens inside Saudi Arabia where they have more latitude to operate.
48
@Dream Weaver
What happens in Saudi Arabia is routine public execution. For things that are not illegal elsewhere.
13
they sent forensic experts in the same day of Khashoggi’s disappearance.
If everything leaked by Turkish officials are true, this is absolutely unacceptable, where is "values" US and EU should act now..
read this twitter threads identifying Turkish newspaper names.
15
The death of a dissident takes over more column inches than the thousands of Yemeni non-combatants dying a Saudi-led war and famine...so if goes. Saudi dissidents the world over now feel the way Russian dissidents feel: at the mercy of their country's secret agents and one false step on their part.
The Saudis must answer for Khashoggi and for their Yemeni campaign. And so should the Saudis' eternal enablers under every president: the USA.
99
Why then when the character of the actual ruler of Saudi Arabia was so evident from the beginning was there such fawning over the prince by so many prominent Americans? The destruction of Yemen should have been a daily reminder of what this prince was about.
303
Because Trump loved the ceremony and attention. That is all that matters.
@Nancy Money.
1
Turkish officials look to be correct in this case, but then again what are they doing themselves in their own country with dissidents? They land in prison on a whim. The problem with killing dissidents is you never run out of them. The "problem" then escalates wider in scope until some politicians begin ever so loosely suggesting we should revolt using those same methods, even recently heard here in the U.S.A. Perhaps it would wiser to vote instead, because we can do that here, unlike over there.
33