Kavanaugh's parents know the real deal. His wife knows. For a son to behave as he said he did, to drink to excess while in high school and college ... they had to know of his behavior and the kinds of things than can (and probably did) happen when young people are unsupervised and have access to alcohol. They are enablers. But now they are all "happy" enablers because their son is now on the scotus for life.
I feel as if all the protesting and work I did fighting for rights for me and others like me in the 60's and 70's was all for nothing. I feel like attitudes toward the victim are the same as they were the fifties when I was assaulted.
I feel like all my hard work as a hippie/protester and all the progress of the past 50 years has vanished. I feel bad for my grandkids and great grandkids. I feel like nothing has changed since the fifties , when it happened to me.
If 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men ate survivors of sexual assault, how many sexual assauulters are there? In 10?
2
My stomach turned as I read replies from brainwashed women. I cannot believe that they think rape is a lie. As a person who was raped, it sickened me to read the responses. Don't they realize that only 2% of rape claims are false? THAT MEANS THAT 98% OF RAPE CLAIMS ARE TRUE! It saddens me that they believed an alcoholic, gambling addict, with no self control, either in his life or at the hearing was the one being picked on. Typical of aggressors playing the victim game. The true victim was cool, calm and dignified. Perhaps they think she was lying because she didn't get "hysterical". Excuse me, while I go vomit.
4
Amazing how many women are still apparently eager to be 'good girls' and allow men power over them. Mostly white women. Once again, proving they are undependable allies.
4
It is disappointing to see how many women came away believing that these hearings proved that Dr. Ford was actually lying or deliberately making a false accusation. The hearings proved nothing. Those who made a point of mentioning the "lack of corroborating evidence" conveniently forgot to acknowledge that the attempt to mount a thorough investigation that might uncover such evidence was thwarted. People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe.
3
I cannot believe how many of these women thought Kavanaugh was the victim. White women, you have to do better.
11
All I see is people on either coast for the most part aren’t listening to the people in the middle. For those that said it was a job interview fine, you still need to have corroborating evidence! You can’t just say yah I think this happened and then derail someone’s career. Also, why is it that we need more women in politics? To push down men? Isn’t that the issue, pushing down one group to build another? I’m sick of the tone deafness from the mainstream media and then just being called names because I support the president. I want less government and I want innocent until proven guilty to continue to be the law of the land. As a woman, NONE of my rights have changed since president trump took office. I can do everything I did while president obama was in office. Shocker, the news would have you believe all of sudden that has changed. It hasn’t. And anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention.
1
@Cam
Less government, such as men in government getting their opinions out of women's reproductive systems? Less government, as in bigwigs getting tax breaks, while they steal from the middle class? Less government, as in no repairing or building roads, fewer firefighters, fewer police officers, and other common things that are paid for, by the government, by our taxes? Please clarify.
2
@Sheila less government meaning the federal government. I don’t believe they need to be involved as deeply as they are in each of the things you’ve mentioned. Also, I don’t believe federal government should be involved in healthcare period. I’d rather hear from a doctor anyways,
I responded to the survey, and am pretty certain you over-sampled conservative voices. Can we get a breakdown?
7
@Saschas well put... I hope NYT offers us that, as I feel the same.
1
According to the CDC, one in five women will be raped during their lives. One in three will experience some form of sexual contact violence (CDC's language.) And yet half the women in this article think the REAL problem is the very few false accusations that surface from time to time. I will never understand this Trump branch of conservatism, no matter how many "reports from Trump's America" the Times may produce.
7
I am surprised that not a single comment reflected the experience I have heard from so many women in my life, namely that the testimony and the reaction to it was retraumatizing to survivors of sexual violence.
8
I am appalled at the woman who advised her son to "get it in writing" when he enters into a relationship. That is not, at all, how consent or respect work. A relationship is not a permission slip to perform any act on another person at any time. I'm distraught that she is teaching such entitlement with such a huge dose of spite mixed in with the message. It really speaks to why we arw in this mess.
5
I participated in this Survey and now I am regretting it. The article makes it appear that the number of women who supported Kavanaugh was roughly equal to the number who opposed him. I don’t believe for one moment that that is remotely true. By giving those voices equal time the article has misrepresented us and done women everywhere a disservice. It gives women who supported Kavanagh an inflated voice that isn’t representative of the whole. I demand that they release the statistics of the study so that we can all see exactly how many people were in each group.
12
@Ally Russell, I agree with your 100%
1
So many of those featured are well fed well-to-do white women who have nothing but "himpathy" and who do not trust other women. They always take any man's word over that of any woman. Sadly that's how many women of their generation were raised & indoctrinated. Even sadder to see one young presumably educated & Instagram-ready Millennial who not only did not listen to the testimony of Dr. Blasey Ford but who apparently would have discounted it even if she had bothered to listen to it. This young lady apparently believes that by voting Republican from now on she will be supporting truth, justice & fair politics. I guess all of the pro-Kavanaugh women featured here believe the same thing. They were raised to despise their own gender and by extension, themselves.
16
@Jane
I am a (now) well fed and fairly well-to-do white woman that was interviewed, but not featured, for this article. At 29 years old, I suppose I still fit into that Millenial category. I was raised in a low-income, Conservative household. My parents are still staunch Republicans. They instilled a strong work ethic and some pretty awesome money management skills but, above all, they taught me to be my own person and to never let anyone take away what was mine or to make me feel less than.
I listened to the testimonies. I believe and support Dr. Ford. It broke my heart to hear my husband, parents, coworkers, and friends tear her down. Not because they support Kavanaugh, but because they support Trump. And winning was more important than the facts, Dr. Ford's suffering, or the future of women in this country.
You're right. A lot of women in my generation take our rights for granted. They think we have equal rights and that's all there is to it. That it can never change. I am not one of those women. There are still plenty of women in my generation that believe the way I do. Please don't lose hope in us.
@Jane stop with the identity politics. The left is obsessed with it, you are part of the problem. No one should be expected to think a certain way based on their socioeconomic status or the color of their skin or their gender or their orientation, etc etc. This is literally pulling the power away from people as individuals and does nothing but promote an oppressive mentality. Plenty of these women (which is an oppressive state in itself according to the left) were minoroties. There is not privilege just because they disagreed with you. That has to stop. It's the opposite of empowering.
Jane, I too suspect that these women who vote Republican and supported Kavanaugh and Trump feel somehow 'safer' than the rest of us because of their righteousness. But if statistics are anywhere near accurate, they could be in for a very rude awakening one day. I look with dismay @ the man squatting in our White House and wonder, how on earth could any woman with a sliver of self respect vote for this low-life? But here they are, replete with smiling photos and wholly unconcerned that this President succeeded in pushing an alcoholic and sexual assailant onto the SC. Ignorance must indeed be bliss.
6
Would it be possible to show a percentage breakdown of responses that were supportive of Dr. Ford vs those that were critical vs those that were neutral?
This article makes it look like responses were about 50/50. Is this accurate?
23
I am surprised and saddened at the number of comments which seem to suggest that Dr. Ford was “lying” or making “false accusations.” And the need to “protect their sons” from lying accusers. What?!
Not all women are liars like not all men are abusers. How about we focus on our humanity, our genuine concern for doing what is right – be respectful; be honest and be kind. It sounds so simple, yet reading through many of these comments, like others, it really is disappointing at how far behind we are in the tenets of basic humanity.
11
@LHB I agree wholeheartedly.
I would think by now that hearing Trump's spin spew out of people's mouths would cease to be shocking, but somehow, coming from women, especially women who have daughters, it is still shocking.
Boys, especially white boys, have been protected forever. Raise them right and you don't have to worry about them being accused of inappropriate behavior. Your daughters, on the other hand, have a lot to worry about.
It's so disheartening to read the words of women who don't value girls as much as boys. As people of color must feel, I really thought we were further along culturally than we apparently are.
27
Read the current front page story about women having sex for money with sugar daddies. Guys should just go this route so we are never accused of anything inappropriate. Women actually have all the power now, I’m glad I’ve been out of the dating pool for a long time.
1
Oh give me a break. Yes, women are coming forward about their experiences with sexual assault and sexual harassment because society is somewhat more open to believing them. Think of one woman in your life that you care about, suffering silently, perhaps leaving a job she wants to keep because the work environment has been made untenable or she was sexually assaulted by someone she knew and was too scared to rock the boat. If you haven't sexually assaulted a woman you have nothing to worry about.
9
@David L There are also males that go out with rich women, giving then sex for money. So, stop declaring it a one way road. This has NOTHING to do with the subject of rape. Don't cheapen the conversation.
1
My niece, a college student, recently told me that she and her mother are on opposite sides of this debate and the her mother screamed at her for not supporting Kavanaugh. She brought her own daughter to tears when she stated fairly clearly that rape is the woman's fault. She supports the idea that what a woman wears, where she goes and how she acts are the reasons for rape, not that rapists are the reason for rape. My niece, who is extremely intelligent and articulate, tried to explain her opinion and her experiences in seeing "rape culture" at college, but her mother would not budge. I think that some women cannot bear to think that this world is unsafe for women and prefer to believe that sexual assault is practically a myth. My heart breaks for all of the daughters experiencing this kind of devaluing by their own mothers.
28
@Beth that breaks my heart. What if your niece had been groped at a party but had never told her mother? My guess? Your niece's mother has had some trauma for which she blames herself. Nonetheless it's so sad.
1
@Beth, please let that mother know that I was 100% sober, and wearing a long-sleeved, high-scoop-necked T-shirt, with jeans that were from my waist to my ankles, when I was raped. Infants and the elderly also get raped. It has nothing to do with how someone dresses. Rape is not about sex, but power over another being. Even someone who is drunk and running down the street does NOT deserve to be raped. WOMEN AND MEN, OPEN YOUR MINDS!
1
There has never been due process for women. Women in Texas were considered chattel, rhymes with "cattle" and mean the same thing.
Until the late 1970s, our husbands were awarded our credit rating when they married us, and they kept it and we lost it, if we were divorced.
The male governing bodies try to take out right to vote away from us, because our names on our drivers license does not match our name on our voter registration -- because there is not enough space for all my names, the State of Texas has put one name on my UTx diploma, another on my drivers license, something different on my voter registration, and a fourth name on my engineering license !
Men have tried to steal my work. I have watched them for a long time and what goes around comes around. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
22
I am appalled at the number of women who somehow believe that Dr. Ford lied or followed some political agenda to derail Mr. Kavanaugh. While neither's testimony offered any proof 'beyond a reasonable doubt', Mr. Kavanaugh's history of blackout drinking, his lies on other matters that could - indeed - be verified, and his general disdain for Senators Weinstein and Klobuchar gave a pretty clear picture of someone who should not be on the Supreme Court. We're not asking for a saint, but an habitual liar and drunkard don't seem to represent the ideals of the country we're striving for. And, to all the women who have expressed negative feelings towards Dr. Ford, ask yourselves what is so important to you that you would voluntarily turn your life and that of your family's upside down for a few hours in front of a television camera? Dr. Ford is a true hero and none of those angry women can take that away from her.
43
So many women in alliance with the patriarchy. No big surprise. Who wants to look at the reality that women and especially girls face? Christine was a girl just barely a woman. What if she had told some of these mothers who feel the need to warn and protect their sons from the evil bad seductive girls who wish to punish them unfairly? Really? A teenage girl is going to work at getting raped so she can expose her pain to the cops and the courts? Just to get your poor and chaste teenage son? Would these mothers feel the same if Christine was their daughter? I bet they would. It is easier to ignore your own experiences if you invalidate others.
33
@Candace Carlson - The other day I was in a gathering of 5 women ages 60 to 72. Each of us had been raped or sexually assaulted. Someone guessed that 80% of women in our age group had faced the same. No one disagreed.
And the thing is, we didn't tell. You did. Not. Tell. back then. You'd have been disbelieved, or blamed for it. And when I thought about it, how was I going to tell my parents when my mother couldn't even say the word "sex." For all those young women who think if Ford didn't tell anyone 35 years ago, she must be lying, I'm here to tell them that women didn't tell back then. The penalties for telling were worse and longer lasting than the assault itself.
24
What I got from this is that white women will continue to sell the rest of us out -- and even another white woman -- to maintain white supremacy and patriarchy.
29
This was an survey without analysis. Women were asked for their name and location, opening them to being identified and possibly harassed but weren't asked about where they got their information or the reasoning behind their opinion.
Women who knew Kavanaugh wasn't on trial, he testified at a confirmation hearing, also knew about Ford's testimony, were mostly against Kavanaugh's confirmation and wanted more women appointed to courts or elected and wanted their daughters to tell them if something happened so they could stand with them.
Others were horrified that "guity beyond a reasonable doubt" and 'innocent unless proven guilty" might no longer apply and their sons could be in danger from false accusations by females. They learned their sons should keep a diary. They believe female accusers should report immediately and provide evidence. It would have been interesting to know what they thought female false accusers would hope to gain. If they read more they'd know rapists are seldom tried and very seldom convicted.
We the public saw that an uninformed public could be a danger to Democracy. False news is a danger to Democracy. If we still had the Fairness Doctrine all the responders would have known more and thought more about the issues and maybe discussed them more.
20
The one good thing arising from this whole nomination is that at least one Senator (Kennedy I believe) admitted he had no idea how many women of his acquaintance had been attacked until they started calling him during this nomination process. They asked him what planet he had been living on.
There are so many women who are also living in a bubble when it comes to sexual assault. We always think it's something that happens to someone else or that it only happened to us, not our family or friends. It's time to share the truth now.
Anyone who says "I would tell my daughter" should instead first say "I'm going to ask my daughter if..." Open the dialogue with the possibility of the if first. Otherwise, any advice merely reinforces the silence about assaults because our children do not want to tell us we are too late.
24
I want to try to say something taboo.
There's something I've been thinking ever since the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh first surfaced, and Team Trump began bashing, mocking, cursing, damning, and making death threats against Dr Christine Blasey Ford and indeed against any woman who speaks out against sexual assault.
This is really hard to say and I hesitate before I type it.
These people are as violent, as hateful, and as ignorant as they are ... because they have not experienced being assaulted themselves. They have not experienced the fear, the agony, the humiliation, the nightmares, the obsession with security, that last a lifetime.
I am not *wishing* that these haters are assaulted. But I am saying that they have the kind of shallow and limited personality that dictates that they can never understand or show compassion until they themselves are sexually assaulted.
I recognize that personal, tragic experience is the only way some of them will ever develop depth and compassion.
Even then, they might not. They might hate and blame themselves, just as they hate and blame Dr. Ford.
30
@Danusha Goska
I think you're mistaken. There's equal numbers of rape victims in every stratum of society, every political stripe or socioeconomic status.
Some people identify with their abusers. This is a well-known phenomenon. It's a way of regaining a sense of control, albeit dysfunctionally. I think it also explains why some people support Trump even when he acts openly and undeniably against their own interests. They want to feel themselves aligned with someone rich and powerful, even if it's a sham.
The Times ran an article a few days ago about two friends in (I think it was) Mississippi, one who believed Dr. Ford and one who didn't. The one who didn't said she had been violently raped, and so had her daughter. She didn't really offer any explanation for why she didn't believe Dr. Ford. But she didn't.
It wasn't a statistical analysis, but I'm sure she's not alone.
3
@Danusha Goska - I saw a Trump supporter interviewed the other day. She admitted she herself had been sexually assaulted - but she still believed Kavanaugh and disbelieved Dr. Ford.
3
I am astonished that we (democrats) chose the sexual assault issue to fight about. Kavanaugh should have been rejected based solely on his refusal to answer Kamala Harris' question about whether he has ever spoken about the Mueller investigation to anyone at the law firm that represents Trump. Particularly since he kept trying to get her to tell him whether anyone SAID that he had!
Plus, he undoubtedly lied about his drinking, and that should also have disqualified him.
BTW - I believe he DID assault Dr. Ford. He just doesn't remember, because he was a 17 year old, good looking, privileged, drunk, jock who never gave a thought to the effect what he was doing might have had on the other person. It was just a fun little lark that he forgot about as soon as she left the room and he stopped laughing about it.
56
As a mother, wife , friend and retired public school leader I know many talented, ethical and heroic women and men who deserve better political leadership from all elected officials . There are few leaders in either party and it is time for the over age 50 white men and women to step aside. Time for the next generation to make this world better. My generation failed at US leadership and governance at the national level. Time for sweeping change .
18
Like most of us, I have had my own traumas in the past, and this debacle really brought that to the forefront for me. I am so deeply saddened by how many women can defend someone like Kavanaugh. His belligerent attitude, especially towards Sen. Klobuchar, belied a terribly petty, partisan man.
I believed Dr. Ford. I don’t know how anyone couldn’t. I’m still not 100% sure that Kavanaugh actually did it, but I do lean towards the affirmative just based on his response. Either way, though, he showed he most definitely did not have the temperament for the highest court in the lands.
It is a sad day for our democracy, and it is a sad day for women and survivors.
28
It is distressing to read comments of women who support GOP and appointment of Kavanaugh. They don't seem to grasp what is expected from and desired in our Supreme court judge. These are women devoid of analytical thought, the very women who vote against their own interest, who are happy with an hideous sexist sleazy men as a figure to emulate for their sons and acceptable world to live in for their daughters. Women who support men who abuse them, voting as these men slash their rights, the education, health care, social services, future well being for their children. Here is is a summary of the letter of 2700 professors (law professors) who better articulated better than I that may enlighten them:
{"The following letter was presented to the United States Senate on Oct. 4.
Judicial temperament is one of the most important qualities of a judge. As the Congressional Research Service explains, a judge requires “a personality that is even-handed, unbiased, impartial, courteous yet firm, and dedicated to a process, not a result.” The concern for judicial temperament dates back to our founding; in Federalist 78, titled “Judges as Guardians of the Constitution,” Alexander Hamilton expressed the need for “the integrity and moderation of the judiciary.”}
19
If you're certain that the Kavanaugh kerfuffle was going to bring women around to voting for Democrats, read these comments from women and weep. Outside of our Lefty bubble, the show was perceived much differently than what has been said within our bubble.
The Democrats conducted the opposition to Kavanaugh's nomination incredibly stupidly, allowing it to be cast as hinging almost-entirely on the sexual assault allegation. Instead, they should have fought the battle based on Kavanaugh's manifestly poor record in matters judicial, both from the point of view of his inexperience and his rank partisanship in everything he has done. He'd still have been confirmed ('cause Republicans always had the votes to do so), but at least public opinion could have been swayed in the Democrats' direction leading into the November election. Instead, this misfired opposition has really propped up the Republicans' enthusiasm and electoral chances. And that's a tragedy for our country.
17
These responses were almost exactly evenly split between pro- and anti-Kavanaugh. Did that really reflect the balance in the responses you received? That doesn't seem right given what I think I know about your urban, educated readership. This article is meaningless, and pointlessly infuriating, without some description of the numeric balance between the two sides. Not every issue has two equally valid and equally popular sides. I'm a frequent reader and proud subscriber, but this makes me want to click over to the Post in disgust.
33
The more I think about this sample the NYT collected the more it frustrates me and I do not think I am alone in this as I read the comments. I was unimpressed by the way in which this information was related back and wonder now if I unknowingly contributed my opinion for a study or a book? I gave my opinion based on a desire to share my frustration, concerns. My impression of what the feedback is from my friends, colleagues, associates is nothing like you presented in fact it seemed you were pulling the punches and delivering a 50/50 representation. Were those women supporting Kavanaugh subscribers or trolls recruited by the current WH politicians? I cannot believe the # of people spouting the flaks responses. Missing from this was the relevant question of did they watch the interviews and statements or are they expressing opinions based off news reports that are curated? Again, please tell us the % pro/con % republican/democrat results of this article where you collected our information. This way we can actually learn something.
32
For the record, I think Kavanaugh is a creep that is undeserved of being a judge, and Dr. Ford is a brave and truthful woman.
However, I'm shocked that so many people are shocked at these pro-Kavanaugh women,
I think the rise of identity politics caused a sort of myopia among the left. It makes people assume that all politics is gendered and racial. Feminists start to assume that they speak for all women, and that all women are very open to their message, just as some assume that all straight white men are attracted to patriarchy and must make a tremendous effort to resist the siren song of toxic masculinity.
It ain't so. Lots and lots of women are still the same Conservative, Christian women they always were and they probably always will be. They may even be strong and independent in their personal lives, but they still harbor a deep antipathy toward organized feminism or what they think is organized feminism.
They have a strawman view of feminism as something that is anti-straight marriage, anti-straight men, anti-religion, etc. And as much as this view is simplistic, it's not hard to find fodder for it if you hear to the more heated feminists without quite understanding the jargon.
18
Just wow.
Amazing how many women in the article are obsessed with protecting their sons instead of protecting their daughters.
Also, unbelievable how many ignored obstruction on the Republican side and instead blamed the Democrats for responding to that obstruction.
52
I read through a great many of the responses yesterday to this project. They were by far less pro-Kavanaugh and more pro-women than what you are representing here. I think this is a misguided attempt to show some kind of impartiality when in fact a far greater number of women who responded had sympathy for Dr. Ford and were disgusted by the Republican's antics and Kavanaugh's behavior. Why did you choose to do this? The Times should be above this false equivalency. It does not represent your readership, and I suspect it does not represent the country as a whole. Do better.
35
From what I can tell, if you are White and Republican, you believed Kavanaugh. The laughable FACT is NO Black Person is EVER "assumed to be innocent." Not EVER!
To use that statement as a defense for an entitled white male is the height of hypocrisy.
Republicans, not Democrats spewed hatred at the First Black President for 8 YEARS. They and their ilk will happily trot us back to the 1940's when women were silent and minorities didn't exist.
Newsflash! We Ain't Going Back!
43
Pro-Kavanaugh women, I have a message for you:
The world watches and laughs as America returns to the age of when women were 2nd class citizens. Women like Susan B. Anthony and so many pioneers before fought valiantly so that our voices could be heard only to arrive here in 2018 and be told “don’t speak up because no one will listen”. You do not believe Dr. Ford which means you have chosen to reject her statement. You are saying that the innocence of one man carries more weight than the innocence of one woman. More importantly, you are choosing to inadvertently silence her. Your silence, however, concerning Kavanaugh’s poor display throughout the hearings is acceptance of it. Do you realize that by supporting Kavanaugh, you are saying that women’s voices, whether crying rape or assault or not, should be silent regardless because they do not matter? Is that really the message we want to send to our daughters? Is the message to our sons that it’s ok to commit these crimes because girls shouldn’t talk about them anyway? C’mon Ladies! You’re too smart to have arrived at such conclusions. We’re better than this!
24
I was shaken and appalled by Kavanaugh's vehement, angry belligerent and openly partisan statements and responses to questioning. It did nothing to convince me of his guilt or innocence, but firmly convinced me that he lacks judicial temperament and on that ground alone should not have been confirmed. Surely there are other qualified conservative judges who could have been nominated and confirmed without all this trauma drama.
39
To those who say Ford's allegation was unsubstantiated, so was Kavanaugh's denial. Just looking at the demeanor of both of them, I have to believe her over him. It's not a court of law. It's a job interview. Anybody else who raised that many red flags would have been long gone. I find it hard to believe conservatives had no better candidates than a whiny, lying, disrespectful brat.
61
I am quite shocked by this sparse list of responses. You heard from 40,000 people -- do these replies reflect the responses proportionally? Or are you just trying to establish regular old journalistic balance? Something here doesn't smell right.
41
@Amber, thanks for your brave testimony. I totally agree with you. My own experience wasn’t nearly as horrific as yours was, but 50 years later I don’t just remember the house where it happened, I KNOW the house where it happened and could show it to you today. I have a degree in psychology as does Dr. Ford, and for all her talk about her hippocampus, there is such a thing as IMPLANTED MEMORY, and it is very telling that Ford testified that she “didn’t know it was an attempted rape until her therapist told her it was”.
The fact that absolutely NO ONE CORROBORATED HER TESTIMONY, not even her best friend Leland, makes me too skeptical of Dr Ford to get past all her inconsistencies. Leland emphasized not once, but twice, that she did not know Kavanaugh, had never met him, and had never been to a party where he was present, whether with or without Dr Ford. Not one single witness provided by Ford backed her up. The FBI grilled Mark Judge for 3 hours and came up with zero. And Judge was supposed to be an eyewitness.
Ford may not have had to prove her case beyond a reasonable doubt, but she certainly needed to provide some evidence, as opposed to NO evidence. The woman from Yale also had zero evidence and no eye witnesses. All she provided was hearsay. No one, not even women, should be allowed to destroy another person based only on accusation and hearsay. I believe Kavanaugh.
9
@Ann I was violently sexually assaulted at university. I was not intoxicated. I was young, innocent and naive. The event affected my life immensely. I could tell you about the interior of the apartment in great detail and who was there; however, would struggle to remember the street and the apartment building. I never told anyone about my assault for 20 years. I would have no one to corroborate my story, and I am sure most of my friends would never remember the party or the attendees - the evening was inconsequential in their lives. I can't imagine not believing Dr. Ford when she had so little to gain and so much to lose by sharing her story.
I'm sorry you experienced assault when you were younger; however, what you are able to remember and retrieve is not universal for all assault victims.
I can't begin to tell you how much it pains me to hear that another victim of sexual assault does not believe Dr. Ford. I believe Dr. Ford.
20
@Ann: Which part of his testimony do you believe? That the drinking age was still 18 when he was a senior in high school? That being a "Renate Alumnius" was a sign of affection for a friend? That "boofing" meant flatulence and "devil's triangle" was a reference to a drinking game? That he did not know the files he received from a Republican staffer were likely stolen?
We will never have irrefutable "proof" about what occurred the evening that Dr. Blasey Ford was assaulted. But Kavanaugh's apparent comfort with stretching the truth to protect himself is disquieting, particularly for a Supreme Court Justice.
27
I thought it to be more valuable when you allow yourself to be open-minded towards other opinions and to respect people even in disagreement. Reading these pro-Kavanaugh comments, sadly, does not promote this kind of thinking. I get the impression that pro-Kavanaugh women have either been fortunate enough to have never been assaulted, catcalled, harassed, nor attacked, or they choose to be ignorant of these crimes and the impact it continues to have on their lives and those of many other women in this country.
To the women who feel this is an attack on the future of their sons/males in their lives or, even worse, who stand with the accused and against the accuser, I want to gently remind you that before you inherited the role of daughter, sister, wife, girlfriend, and/or mother, you were first, and always be, female. You were born with one strike already against you. In the world and climate we live in, your sons and every male you know will always be have an unfair advantage over any female, including you. While I agree with Yvette Varela that this is not about men versus women, it would betray the very existence of women if women choose to ignore the imbalance in equality among sexes. The issue here is not Republican versus Democrat; it's 'women should be heard' versus 'women should keep silent' - I hope you see that.
29
@DarlingI resent your gentle reminder of women boraren with one strike against us because we are women. I do not feel that way and will not take on the victim role you put on women. Stop whining and be strong.
Because a woman does not feel Kavanaugh was not guilty does not mean she has not been catcalled etc ast you say but that she may feel it was a witch hunt and strong enough to make up her own mind. Stop your condescending attitude about why people wrote what they did
1
@Darling,
With all due respect, we are women born into arguably the most free nation on the planet. We aren't 'second class citizens' or does our gender somehow cripple us. The trauma I've gone through in the past is because *people* aren't inherently good - not because the 'patriarchy' is keeping me down or whatnot. Even Ford admitted that it wasn't fear of not being believed or harassment that kept her from pursuing charges when she was young - but that she just didn't want her parents to know she was a heavy drinker and party girl. If you want to live your life as a 'victim' that is your prerogative - but don't insist that other women do so.
Ford WAS heard. No republican said she shouldn't be. She was given a platform no other victim can hope to get. She was given every opportunity for her allegations to be made and investigated. She still could pursue charges if she wanted to - something she has claimed zero interest in.
But deciding automatically that her allegations are true is not the same thing as listening to her. In fact, it's the opposite, as true listening involves weighing and processing what is said.
I listened as her story changed multiple times. I listened as all named fact witnesses could not back her up. I listened as not a single democrat asked Kavanaugh about Ford's actual allegations. I listened as no even 'barely likely' proof was presented that Kavanaugh was guilty.
Should I have listened with my ovaries instead of my brain?
1
I feel utterly disillusioned after reading so many of these comments. To suggest that Dr. Ford was making this up is unfathomable. You must be privy to information not made available to one half of the committee. I would like to see every Kavanaugh supporter here volunteer at a rape crisis center or woman's shelter for a period of 6 months. Short of that, open your hearts and minds and read, read, read. Not junk articles but authoritative studies and biographical accounts.
When you criticize the victims for not coming forward, please go look in the mirror. It is because of people who think as you do, to be perfectly honest. I hope you take the time to read every comment here and then think about what others have said.
This was a real eye opener for me and I too hope the Times follows this up with some statistics. I don't recall hearing the things I read here since maybe the 1950s.
37
@Leslie Parsley Here is the truth. Republicans seldom volunteer anywhere, that is what liberals are for!
10
@Michelle uh actually almost every republican I know has volunteered in either an animal shelter or a women’s shelter.
I’m surprised NYT published the Meredith Fiori statement insinuating that this all of the sudden changed her leanings. I will “vote republican NOW?” A quick google search shows that her view here is in line with her tweets from years ago. She was and is an ardent “Hillary for prison” cheerleader. She definitely did NOT “walk away.” (I refuse to glorify that hashtag.) That particular message could actually sway women who might think “wow, if a Californian, psychotherapist, former Democrat was convinced, maybe I should rethink this.”
55
@Dianna Actions speak louder than words.
3
@Dianna. Thank you for your comments. I could not have expressed better my surprise, voire outrage, upon reading most of the responses to the NYT article, especially as I was assaulted while in college and again later in life. I have never recovered from the sequelae (a word I knew when I studied Latin in high school in the 1960s in Bethesda, MD) and this despite long and expensive therapy.
17
Understanding that NYT wanted to share both POVs on this issue, would you be able to clarify the percentage of women who supported Dr. Ford et al vs women who did not? My friends and I found the article incredibly disturbing, and this information would be very helpful to put the results shared in better perspective. Thank you.
39
@Cbo Quoting Ben Graham's Ghost from earlier... "Of the 17 women quoted in the article, nine (53%) appear to oppose Kavanaugh's confirmation, and eight (47%) appear to support it. The breakdown in the article is consistent with national polls. The Times's reporting here is balanced. "
5
@Jc
This is misleading. What women are complaining about is that many us read many, many of the responses that the Times got from their query. The responses were overwhelmingly in sympathy with Dr. Ford and overwhelmingly disgusted with Kavanaugh and upset about how it turned out. It feels like the Times has created "balance" in a place -- the NYT -- which has a very educated readership that by evidence clearly were upset by Kavanaugh's confirmation. This is the New York Times after all, not Texas!
2
@JRW This article is not misleading, it is commendably accurate.
2
If only. . .
Ford's anonymity had been respected AND the President &/or Judiciary Committee had IMMEDIATELY ordered a full FBI investigation of the candidate. Then K would have had a chance to consider withdrawing and if he didn't, we would at least know the results of a THOROUGH investigation.
OR, K had shown respect, temperance, tolerance - and humility in admitting that he was a heavy teen drinker and maybe (I'm aware this is expecting too much) the adult mentality to warn other teens about its dangers. . . .
OR if others, especially Marc Judge, had had the courage to tell what they knew
OR if both Republicans and Democrats cared about getting the best candidate rather than the (unknown, unpredictable) swing votes.....
any or all of these things would make our country a happier place to live.
14
I find it very disheartening when women victim blame. I realize it is a defense mechanism that protects them from all the times they have been harassed or assaulted. But to align themselves with a perverse male dominated culture does not benefit them, their sons or their daughters. It is a huge betrayal that evidences zero courage.
28
I am so disappointed that justice for Dr. Ford was subverted by eight, old, white men who are living in another time. It was so obvious that she was credible enough to demand a thorough investigation of the facts, not just the limited scope that was allowed. It was also obvious that Kavanaugh was prepped that the best defense is an offensive. He certainly was offensive as he evaded every question while throwing up a smoke screen of anger against the democrats to hide his lies.
I have already taught my daughters to speak their truth and now I tell them vote and get those old clueless senators out of there. To my granddaughters I say "Be smart, be honest, be bold and don't let anyone hold you down."
20
This is going to sound insensitive. It is insensitive, but I think a lot of women will find it true.
Like almost every woman I know, I have been assaulted. Thankfully, unlike some of my friends (and Dr.Ford) I’ve never been raped. This weekend me and my girlfriends (some who have been raped) were talking about this and we ALL had the same take on it. Instead of being “brave” as the commentators had it, she let this singular moment traumatize her, whereas we just picked ourselves up and moved on. She made all women out to be similarly delicate. Also, the little girl voice (and we have all used it) is appropriate in some situations, but not when testifying before the Senate. Does she lecture her students in that voice?
I think this really set women back. We are not all fragile shrinking violets requiring smelling salts at the first sign of male aggression.
8
@Sarah
"She made all women out to be similarly delicate"
She did? What did she say about other women? I don't recall that.
As to "pick myself up" and move on, not make waves, not speak out?
NOPE SORRY. NOT HAPPENING.
4
@Sarah - First, let me say, I'm truly sorry that you and your friends, too, have suffered what you all have. No woman should EVER have to say "I just moved on and got over it". While you may have chosen to hide your scars and tuck away any emotions that would portray you in the light of a "weak" and "fragile" woman, I, along with Dr. Ford and countless other women who have experienced the same or similar situation in varying magnitudes, seem to struggle with it from time to time; perhaps more so than you and your friends. It's unfair to compare how each of us deal with and heal from our individual trauma.
I think you're missing the point on why Dr. Ford is heralded as "brave" and dubbed a "hero". Put yourself in her shoes, if you can. If you are 100% certain that the man who attacked you had, indeed, attacked you and I do not doubt that you are, would you take advantage of the opportunity to name him and prevent him from hurting anyone else, whether it be in a public setting or otherwise? The fact that Dr. Ford chose to subside whatever feelings she had that would've otherwise barred her from coming forward should be praised, not diminished or misinterpreted or deemed disingenuous because she used the wrong tone of voice.
Let me ask you - if Dr. Ford, Anita Hill, or any other woman who has made any sexual assault/harassment allegations did not come forward, would it change society's view of women being "delicate creatures"? Would their silence move women forward?
3
Touché to all. I can respect that response, and I see your point. (Why should any of us have to put up with this in the first place)?
But we do have to put up with it. Just because myself and my girlfriends have chosen to do so with aplomb and a certain nonchalance does not invalidate any other woman’s pain. I just fear that such a national display of female fragility will backfire.
1
What I learned from reading these comments is that there are still and awful lot of awfully naive women out there. Roe v Wade is the law of the land and will not be overturned????
39
@Linda
> Roe v Wade is the law of the land
> and will not be overturned????
In the usual fashion, this is Republicans lying by telling the absolute truth but only half of it. Yes, it's very likely that Roe v Wade will never be overturned; to do so would touch off a firestorm. But in the meantime, in many parts of our nation, access to abortion is being whittled down to the point where Roe v Wade is meaningless. For example, in Missouri, a very recent court decision leaves that state with just one clinic that provides abortion services *IN THE ENTIRE STATE*.
This "lie with half-truths" method is the usual way that Republicans lie to us.
14
Now I'm totally depressed.
7
For the women in this article saying they fear for their sons and tell them to take precautions when alone with women/to avoid certain women... do they not realize this is what all women (including, likely, themselves) have been told their entire lives? To be careful, to not be alone with strange men, to take precautions (don't get too drunk, don't wear anything revealing, don't find yourself alone at night, don't lead them on, make sure people know where you are, meet new dates in public places, etc...) and to avoid certain men? Given the statistics regarding the prevalence of false reporting of sexual assault vs. the statistics regarding sexual assault/attempted sexual assault against women, I find the inherent hypocrisy/blindness in ignoring the ever-present reality of womens' precautions while feeding into current hysteria over the barely-existent threat of false accusations to be staggering. And disheartening.
44
@Ivanka - Well said. I wonder if part of the problem is that some people assume there's a 1:1 ration of sexual assaulters to victims. Instead, I think it's likely that guys who sexually assault have multiple victims, which means there are far fewer guys who sexually assault than the number of victims might suggest. And as you pointed out, only 2% of reported rapes are found to be false. Meanwhile at least 2/3 of rapes or sexual assaults are never reported at all. I suspect the percentage of date rapes or acquaintance rapes reported is even much lower than that. The social stigma of reporting a date or acquaintance rape would in most cases be more traumatizing and lasting than the attack itself.
2
What we know is that Brett grew up a privileged brat. He got away with excessive drinking, crude remarks about women, and went to fancy prep schools because he had the dumb luck of being born in the right family. No wonder he got a Trump nomination! Depsite what the Kavanaugh apologists say, many men did not grow up this way. There is absolutely no reason that we cannot demand more from Supreme Court justices; the talent pool would certainly not be drained if we imposed such "stringent" requirements.
Hard to say what (if anything) happened between him and Dr. Ford, but it would be pretty consistent with his exceptional upbringing if he just opted out of the system that the rest of us live under.
If I were a woman, I would have to conclude that unless I video record my whole life, accusing a powerful man will only invite public scorn with little chance of justice. Better to keep your trap shut, and suffer in silence. Under such a regime, we should expect perpetrators to have little fear of consequences, and that bad behavior will continue and perhaps increase.
As an honorable man, I could not be more frustrated that I have to work hard to have contact with a woman, while sleaze bags literally just grab what they want.
Regardless of Ford, it is plain to see that Kavanaugh is not a man of honor, despite how he has been formally addressed. We have learned, just as Trump taught us, is that this does not preclude reaching high office. "Great"? More like Make America Gross Anew!
25
To all Women, vote. There are some in our Republic that are sorry there ever was a 19th Amendment. Don't let them make you 2nd class citizens.
21
@lftash Many more are appalled by the 13th amendment. Go figure...
1
This unfortunately seems like another example of separate realities. The women supporting Kavanaugh could not have seen the same spectacle I did -- a whiny, angry, entitled overage frat boy demonstrating perfectly the lack of gravitas needed for our country's highest court, with some lies thrown in for garnish. Not to mention the refusal by Republicans to allow complete review of his record.
I cannot imagine what "facts" could support this particular assertion: "Trump, Kavanaugh — these men are not going to take away women’s rights. In fact, if people would take a minute to look at the evidence, they would find much to the contrary." It's as clear as the nose on your face that these men have been trying to do just that, and the evidence supports it.
I am very disappointed in these women.
43
@Seabiscute
I couldn't agree more. It is shocking that so many of these women think kavanaugh is upstanding and Dr. Ford is lying.
It seems obvious to me they and their daughters have never been sexually abused. And they are completely naive if they really think trump and kavanaugh and the majority on the court, along with the republicans in congress will not try to overturn roe v. wade. Perhaps they would like to see it overturned. I’d like to know how many responses among the 40,000 feel as these women do. If they are the
majority, we are in deep trouble. And this is one of the reasons most women do not report sexual abuse and rape. Along with the incredible shame, fear, and horror of it. It seems not much has changed.
26
@Carolyn, their daughters may well have been sexually abused but afraid to tell them about it.
@Carolyn
Victims are #notyourshield. There are plenty of sexual assault victims (myself included) who aren't willing to assassinate someone's character based off allegations alone. Her story changed multiple times in the past few months alone. Every named potential fact witness can't collaborate her story and Leland's account, arguably the most important as she would be biased towards Ford, outright contradicts it in that Leland swears under penalty of perjury that she has never attended an event with Ford nor met him personally.
Saying I should "believe Ford" based on no evidence, and indeed based on contradictory accounts and contradicted testimony, simply because I've been a sexual assault victim is a huge insult. I didn't lose my brain in the assault, nor is there some reason I should now go through life filtering everything through deliberate cognitive biases.
And Ford didn't not report because of shame or horror or people not believing her. She admitted she didn't report since she didn't want her parents to know that she went to heavy drinking parties.
I believed her testimony. I am also very uncomfortable with allegations being believed without corroboration. This was a very important decision, and to have only one or two (very different) allegations made with no corroboration, and use that to decide to not approve him would, in my opinion be wrong. I agree, the FBI "investigation" was a sham. If a true investigation were performed, the result might have shown a pattern of behavior at least that would have corroborated the accusation.
I would not have voted to confirm though, based on his ranting partisan performance in the hearing. That was the worst case of non-judicial temperament he could have provided.
Both girls/women and boys/men should learn from all the media reports and coverage. It is wrong for girls to tease and lead on boys knowing they don't intend to participate in the very actions they are inciting...and then cry harassment. It is wrong for boys to harass and of course to attack girls. And everything can come back to haunt you. Be honest, direct in your behavior, and have respect for each other. I hope all these cases improve behaviors of both males and females at every age.
5
Thank you to Susan Chira, or whatever staff person chose these replies. Y'all did a wonderful job selecting a spectrum of responses which represent essentially every argument for and against the confirmation. Excellent journalism.
4
@NYT why not simply publish all 40,000 responses? Some readers might then scan them all and yes, it would take some time to do so and that would be unbiased reporting.
I spent weeks closely monitoring the news around this issue. Daily, I did so actively so as to be aware, informed, and the final vote to confirm Kavanaugh made my heart sink.
Dr. Ford is courageous. I have done my best to steward a daughter who ALWAYS speaks up when she is treated poorly--that she may always be her own best advocate. Power differentials in life mess with self-esteem. She rarely tolerates bullies, and speaks her truth.
My best hope is that she is never assaulted in a supposedly free and democratic republic that has a shadow side expressing itself these days.
The Trump tone pervades so much currently. History has other dark chapters we can learn from. Teaching respect, civility, and responsibility to our children is key all their lives.
Lessons learned: Get and stay educated about how government works and stay aware. Tell the truth as quickly as you recognize it--even when it is terrifying to do so. How one heals from traumatic experiences takes many forms and Dr. Ford is a brave example for my daughter to learn from.
What would it take for you to publish all 40,000 responses?
12
I didn't think it would be possible to feel more despair, hopelessness, anger, or sadness than I did last Friday and Saturday. But here I am.
What a horror we've made of this nation.
17
Fords testimony was very believable but, it was 35 years ago and there was no solid collaboration.
Kavanaugh's 45 minute tirade was not that of a person qualified to sit on the highest court of the land. The Republicans did not allow all the evidence needed to make a educated decision as to Kavanaugh's mind set that would qualify him to be a judge.
These women and many women and men across the country are disgusted and dismayed at the actions of a president that insults basic morality. The party line vote for Kavanaugh underscores the rot that has permeated the Republican party. The only answer is to vote them out of office.
16
Interesting views from those interviewed even if some are unexpected. I believe Dr Ford, and it's worth pointing out that she has lived and re-lived her ordeal throughout her adult life. When she faced questioning, she was brave, vulnerable, dignified and gentle; in the face of an awkward audience and the glare of tv cameras. Life isn't black and white - understanding is required that sex abuse victims often struggle to report what happened, and many crimes go unreported. At her age then, she would have felt alone and probably humiliated at the prospect of naming and shaming a popular, loud, brash peer. I'm dismayed by the comment from the psychotherapist Meredith Fiori. Maybe she should think about a career change. For what it's worth, this issue should not create the political divide it has. A Supreme Judge serves all Americans. Dr Ford's testimony questioned the appointment of someone with the wrong characteristics for the role. It's truly shameful she wasn't taken seriously. What right did Trump have to comment at all while this played out? It's upsetting me that not enough women and men are outraged by what came out of his mouth, particularly after Kavanaugh's confirmation. I'm genuinely concerned at the values being passed down to children. For what it's worth, a popular UK celeb, Jimmy Savile was prolific during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. It was only when he died that hundreds of - mainly - women were able to come forward to say he'd assaulted them.
23
I will build on Melissa Spencer’s (Los Angeles) simple take on the situation to add that Kavanaugh had the opportunity of a lifetime but failed to see or seize it.
He totally missed the chance to be seen as a role model to most people, if not all. Inspired by the very fact that he IS a husband, father and son, he could have elevated himself in the eyes of men and women, Democrats and Republicans, victims and non-victims by offensively
- handling the criticism and charges against him with grace and humility
- acknowledging with that he made mistakes as a young person
- apologizing for any harm he may have done to Dr. Ford WHILE acknowledging that he does not recall having done so
- taking the opportunity to reinforce what it means for young people (girls and boys) to be able to communicate and trust each other in any kind of relationship and encouraging all victims to speak out early and often
Instead, he opted to demonstrate anger and animosity (supposedly on behalf of his family who presumably knows that he “sowed his oats” as a young man and love him anyway ... shocker!) and reinforce partisan and gender divide.
My lesson? Always take the higher road in this life.
37
@Stacy K Why would anyone confess to something they did not do? Why should Kavanaugh say "I may have done something but can't remember" when he doesn't reasonably feel that is a possibility - and when no other fact witness including Leland remembers such a party? What are the odds of all of them including Leland blacking out?
Drinking a lot and having blackouts (doing something but not remembering it) are not automatically synonymous. They haven't done extensive studies but from polls of college students the rates seem to be only about 50% of heavy drinkers have ever even had *one* 'blackout' let alone many. (Blackouts not being the same thing as simply falling asleep or even passing out.)
There is some evidence from photos that Ford experienced both passing out and possible blackouts. There, as of yet, is no actual evidence that Kavanaugh has ever experienced a blackout.
Why should he "have" to confess he might have had one? He already confessed to drinking a lot (Ford also was a heavy drinker.)
How about we weigh the actual evidence rather than insisting people apologize for possibly committing crimes they have no reasonable reason to suspect they may have committed?
1
I am shocked that the reaction by some women is that they need to protect the men in their family. The real issue here is the level of violence against women and that statistics show that 1 in 5 women is raped. Instead of women protecting men from being falsely accused, shouldn't men (and women) be out there trying to change a culture that results in such a high level of sexual assault against women?
18
Yes, there's 'due process', and everybody is 'innocent until proven guilty' - in court trials. This was a job interview for a Supreme Court Justice job. Kavanaugh revealed himself to be a liar with serious temperament problems.
I'm also struck by the way in which people - even women, as we can read in these comments - still think that women often accuse men falsely of sexual assault.
The truth: very few sexual assaults (genuine or fake) are reported. Few of those make it to trial. Only a tiny minority of rape cases result in convictions.
And no, women do not often accuse men falsely of rape.
Yet people still rush to judgement...against women. Sen. Mitch McConnell described Dr. Ford's testimony as 'uncorroborated mud'. True, Mark Judge did not 'recall' the event. He did not say 'Yes, we did it..'. Surprised ?
The President is '100 % certain' that Dr. Ford mistook the identity of her attacker. Really ? He was there, too ?
As for the FBI 'investigation' in which the chief witness was not interviewed...'Nuff said.
I'm Canadian, so neither Republican nor Democrat. But as a retired lawyer, I'm dismayed by the ease with which Republicans are pulling the wool over women's eyes with all this 'Kavanaugh was abominably treated' stuff.
Women who vote Republican at the midterms need to wake up and smell the coffee. It's the same old stuff Republicans served Anita Hill in 1991, at the Clarence Thomas hearings. Vote for change.
38
Some of these thoughts are upsetting. The women lament what they BELIEVE to be a false accusation against Brett Kavanaugh. Then they turn around and accuse Dr. Ford of lying. WHAT? Some of us think both are telling the truth; that Kavanaugh really does not remember the incident.
9
He lied about demonstratively minor things under oath. There are no small lies, at least that’s what I was taught. He was rude to the female Senators and didn’t answer questions from the democratic side. Proving himself to be partisan even before he brought up the Clintons in a truly bizarre rant. We need people as judges that are honest, believe in facts and in good faith serve this country!
19
What is this? You have 40,000 responses, and just pick and choose random comments that that give false equivalency to both sides? We know this isn't representative of how women are feeling because only 30% of women support Kavenaugh and 68% oppose him. The NY Times has amazing data scientists who can mine these comments for broad themes that would give a real feel on how people are feeling. It really is amazing that the same publication that put out that amazing piece on Fred Trump empire publishes this mess. I get more insight reading random comments on Twitter.
22
@TwingleMom
Yes! I too am so angry and disappointed about this. This is a misleading and very insulting compilation. What was the point? It makes me feel even more violated that I already did by that sham hearing. The responses were overwhelmingly opposed to Kavenaugh. Can't even get a sense of justice and fair play in the "liberal" NYT!
4
Correction:
Of the 17 women quoted in the article, nine (53%) appear to oppose Kavanaugh's confirmation, and eight (47%) appear to support it. The breakdown in the article is consistent with national polls. The Times's reporting here is balanced.
11
@Ben Graham's Ghost
It may be balanced across the country but it completely misrepresents the 40,000 responses they received from the women who bothered to write in. This is not fair and it's not good science.
4
JRW, do readers have access to a statistical summary of the 40,000 responses? I think the comments here (on the rights side of the aritcle) are making it clear how an overwhelming majority of NY Times readers feel about Kavanaugh. But to be effective in dealing with the appointment (impeachment) of this incompetent, worst-of-prep-school dreck, I need reality. The reality is that around 50% to 60% of women oppose his being on the High Court. Around 40% to 50% support him. Around 10% appear to be either undecided, disinterested or so frustrated in general that they cannot support any conventional politician.
@Ben Graham's Ghost
But it is not representative of the responses they received -- this is why women who took part in this "survey" are upset. It paints a false picture of what women who read the NYT and took the time to respond really think and feel.
Man of the pro-Kavanaugh women polled state that they are uncomfortable about the lack "of due process" and how they believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and fear "mob rule" yet they support a President who yesterday stoked chants of "lock her up" directed at Dr. Ford and Diane Feinstein -- what about their due process? Are they not innocent until proven guilty. Is that not mob rule?
68
@Christopher
Whataboutism. Trump does and says a lot of stupid things. That doesn't make mob rule OK. That doesn't make a society where allegations are assumed fact (whether in a job interview, court room, or high school hallway) OK.
To the woman that said Roe v. Wade will not be overturned, she may be right - the Court may not say that case is no longer the law of the land. But it's entirely possible that under this Court, the protections offered under Roe could be chipped away at in such a way as to effectively overturn Roe, eg, regulations around clinics will make it impossible to stay open in certain states. I wonder if she'll feel different when she realizes that was enough and the right's plan all along. They've been playing chess - gerrymandering, stacking the courts, attacking the accuser - while the left is playing checkers.
29
Folks, as to the proportions of the responses in the article...let wiki speak on the popular vote: “ Clinton received over 2.8 million more votes nationwide, a margin of 2.1%.” That is not a big difference. In terms of the article, nicking several words of one conservative female might even the reality of the article representing the country and the last election.
1
@william f bannon
Not a lot? 2.8 million people are insignificant? When you factor in the nearly half of all registered voters sat out in 2016, you have a strong mathematical basis with which to question the assumption of a plurality of Americans support Trump and his positions.
14
@Christopher
2.1% is small. We all wish our stocks were down only 2.1% over the past week.
@william f bannon
Apples to oranges.
It is fascinating to read the responses published by the NYT and the comments section.
The sense of surprise and distain displayed in the comments section is astounding, more so than the published responses. The certainty of the men-women, white male oppression, patriarchy narrative is interesting. Regardless of the certainty, the prescription laid out by the oppression movement is what is problematic.
"I believe" as a response is not only a statement of faith that someone is believable, but a call for punishment of the person not believed. Unfairly punishing someone is anathema, not just in a legal setting, but also in personal interactions. It seems that the women who responded point this out by mentioning their fears. There seems to be a call for fairness.
The responses in the comments section seems to recognize the inherent question of unfairness by responding that "this is a job interview, not a trial" (So fairness and justice don't apply in job interviews? The interviewer should not have the responsibility to judiciously consider accusations?)
Overall, I think the issue seems to be that you can't address misogyny and injustice by becoming unjust and a misandrist. Fundamental fairness in judgement extends beyond a court house.
15
Sorry, but you’re wrong. “I believe” is a statement of faith not necessarily tied to a call for punishment.
3
@Patriot
Then why are people angry that Kavanaugh was seated in the Supreme Court?
@Patriot
Then why are people angry that Kavanaugh was seated on the Supreme Court?
1
Odd that so many leftists who chose to sit back and support Bill Clinton after his (proven) brutal treatment of several women would now choose to believe an 11th hour smear from a woman whose only “witnesses” outright refute her.
But it’s not political or anything...
3
@James Burke
How interesting. The GOP fell all over themselves to believe Clinton's accusers but call Dr. Ford and the many accusers of Trump liars.
But it's not political or anything...
45
Read more ! No one " refuted" Dr.Ford.
And yes you're right about Clinton
5
@James Burke Not sure if I'm a "leftist" but I am alarmed that sexual assault allegations against our president and Brett Kavanaugh have not been investigated as thoroughly as they should be. I don't understand why that is not a concern of Republican supporters. I do not support Bill Clinton's alleged sexual misconduct and believe his victims deserve to be heard. But, Bill Clinton is not the president now nor is he going to be on the Supreme Court. Donald Trump and Brett Kavanaugh both have serious unanswered charges against them that if true make them unfit for their positions.
32
I hope each woman represented in this column reads every other woman in this column. It seems to me that most of these commenters left the hearings with the same views they entered. I was inclined to view Kavanaugh benignly prior to the hearings. I was glued to the television during them. His behavior convinced me of how truly terrible he is. The man is a self-entitled liar. He has much to overcome to earn the respect the seat he now holds deserves. With the Republicans’ new mantra that Democrats represent mob rule, I am terrified for this country. McConnell is the very face of evil. The devil does not have horns and a tail.
50
I learned that regardless of what women do, they will be picked apart. We can never be perfect enough. Don't count on other women. They often will betray you. On the other hand, men with money, education or prestige are protected. After all, God is a man. Isn't he?
25
Ask yourself this: if it’s all a lie, then why did she make up the stuff about wearing a swimsuit? That’s a strange detail to use in a lie. Why would she say there were three people in the room and name one of Brett’s own best buddies (who would surely take his side over hers) as that third person? If it was about grandstanding and attention-seeking, then why did she come forward before he was even the nominee? If he’s so innocent, why was he so evasive under oath? Did you drink to the point of blacking out is a simple yes or no question. You would think he would say “of course not, Senator” rather than “Did YOU?” What kind of innocent alter boy behaves like that?
62
@Elizabeth Carlisle. Not quite yet. https://www.gofundme.com/help-christine-blasey-ford
But still. I find it difficult to believe she would go through this for monetary gain. She would have had to start planning years ago when she first discussed it with therapists on the hopes that Kavanaugh might some day rise to a position of more prominence. That's some super-villain level planning there.
I find it more believable that she's telling the truth as she recalls it.
@ E Carlisle
He obviously lied in the hearing. And he had plenty to gain by doing so.
8
Elizabeth, why would she lie about something like this? She has nothing to gain and everything to lose. And lying in all caps along with the comment about the GoFundMe page? Please, turn down the volume. You've just demonstrated how polarized this country is.
I don't know what happened 36 years ago, non of us will ever know. I do know what I saw from Judge Kavenaugh in that hearing was not impressive. I would expect a Supreme Court nominee to be level headed, non-partisan, clearly able to articulate positions and actions, and show respect to the committee evaluating his candidacy. What I saw was anger (whether justified or not), blaming Democrats and the Clintons for a smear, condescending responses to female committee members, and less than candid explanations of his drinking and behavior while in school.
This is not the comportment I would expect of a judicial nominee who will have a profound effect on the direction of this country for the next 30-40 years.
As I was truly saddened when Trump won, I am truly saddened and fearful of the impact of the new Justice. He, for instance, based on his record, would not vote to overturn Citizens' United, which has made it far easier for companies and rich folks to buy elections, even without the consent of the candidates. The ideas now being written into law that corporations are people and should govern and be governed that way is deeply unfortunate for all of us and moves us back towards a feudal society, which a very few ruling the many.
23
Unfortunately what I think we saw was a repeat of the Clarence Thomas hearings in 1991. The senators understanding of sexual harassment, rape, sexual assault, and domestic violence doesn't appear to have advanced one bit since 1991. A good many of the men are stuck in the Middle Ages when it comes to women in society.
Clarence Thomas called the re-opening of his hearings a high tech lynching. Brett Kavanaugh decided to go on the offensive, to be a raging bully rather than a mature man. He lied about his own underage drinking to preserve a ridiculous image, that of being a choir boy. No one was going to arrest him for underage drinking 36 years after the fact. Lying about that is a signal, one that was not taken seriously by the GOP and many men who seem to think that the only reason Blasey Ford came forward was because she wanted to hurt Kavanaugh.
Maybe she wanted to keep a man who sexually assaulted her off the high court. Maybe she was thinking of your daughters and granddaughters and the example elevating a liar to the Supreme Court sets for the country. What the senate and our reality t.v. president did was a disgrace. Once again they proved to America that if you have the influence anything can be overlooked.
44
Dr Ford was treated horribly by the Dems. She wanted her comments fully considered behind the scenes, which had plenty of time to include a full investigation. Instead, her letter was held, she was outed by the press (and no one in Feinsteins office knows how that happened), was not told she could be interviewed in CA, and was forced to “testify” in public. She trusted her representative and was used as a political pawn. Was she seen as a necessary sacrifice for the “cause”? These tactics cannot stand. It is NOT okay to do anything to stop a nomination. This Justice is not important enough, despite all the hysteria, to throw away our decency.
5
@Wendy Feinstein's office did not release the letter, according to the reporter who broke the story. It was probably Grassley, or someone in his office, who did so. Grassley had a copy of the letter before it became public. You should change your first line, to more accurately represent the facts. "Dr Ford was treated horribly by the Republicans."
28
@Wendy
So everything you just accused "the Dems" of doing (not conducting a full investigation, not being told she could be interviewed in CA, testifying before TV cameras, questioning by a prosecutor as if she were on trial) were ALL the responsibility of the committee chairman, who has all the power.
Republicans controlled the entire process (including declaring "committee confidential" documents that proved Kavanaugh's history of lying under oath), and the party of personal responsibility needs to take some personal responsibility for their own decisions.
30
@Wendy The hooplah against the democrats was simply a smoke screen thrown up to take attention away from the obvious lies of a privileged man/child who is used to getting his way.
Apparently the White House used the time before Dr. Ford's testimony to prep him that the best defense is an offense. He certainly was offensive and used every opportunity to direct attention away from answering questions with information.
8
Suddenly the fear of false allegations is a new issue and applies only to men? As an educator my experience is that this concern and awareness of its damaging potential has been around for quite some time for men and women in many professions. What about teachers, priests, counselors, social workers, psychiatrists, doctors? I'm guessing many, many professionals, particularly those who work with people in a more intimate way have had this same concern for many years. In some instances, a false accusations ends a person's career. Most certainly, they don't then get appointed to the Supreme Court.
9
@MatthewJohn What a difference it would have made in my mind if he had acknowledged his wrongdoing and apologized for it. His lies were so apparent that he needed to find some way to detract every one's attention away from his testimony. Accusing the democrats of wrongdoing worked just great for him, but justice was not served.
6
@Heather Miller I think he, and the rest of them including Lindsey Graham and Trump realized, they had no other defense but righteous indignation.
My take away is one of shock and disappointment at the way the Judicial Committee conducted these hearings. The GOP controlled White House, Senate and now the Supreme Court have made it clear that a WIN is more important that truth and justice.
What a disgrace. Sexual assault should not be tolerated. Candidates for the Supreme Court should be carefully vetted by the Judiciary Committee. Investigations should be objective and complete. We should start to consider term limitations for all federal judges, including the Supreme Court. Lifetime appointments do not go hand in hand with the job. Like wise, we should impose term limitations on the House and the Senate.
17
Wow. Reading this is terrifying. Many of the respondents appear not to understand anything about sexual assault, reporting, or gender relations in general. As some of the other comments point out, many of these comments show little to no critical analysis of the hearings, rather they parrot pundits' talking points.
My advice to sons and daughters - don't sexually assault someone and you won't have a problem. Engage in open, consensual, and mutually pleasurable relationships. It shows repect for others, and it also shows respect for yourself.
My advice to sons, listen to women and don't speak for them or past them. Be a feminist and advocate for equality.
40
@Amanda H.B. the women who responded in this article really have internalized the myths around assault. It's depressing.
22
@Amanda What criteria will you use to discern false accusations from real ones, especially when they’re aimed at your own children, whom you’ve advised to refrain from sexual assault?
There are some wise thoughts represented here. It made me downhearted, however, that so many women spoke about advising a son to "watch his back", as one put it. Why not just advise your sons to avoid disrespecting their peers who are women?
33
@Maggie Mae
Why do you think they aren't? Many conservative women *already* raise their sons to treat women with respect. One of the best decisions I made in my 20s was to stop hanging out around my liberal friends (where the girls actively encouraged the guys to take liberties and the men either took liberties or did nothing to stop other men from doing so) and make new friends who were predominantly conservative and respected me. Not every conservative guy was 'perfect' but in general my boundaries were more respected and if someone saw another guy saying/doing something inappropriate they would step in to stop it. (Conversely in college I was forced onto a guys lap and then he choke slammed me to a table - and not one of the many liberal witnesses would go with me to report it nor did any step in to stop it nor kick the guy out of the group, etc.)
So they already are telling their sons to respect women. The need to tell them to "Watch their back" is new, however, in this sudden push to 'believe all women' where men can have their career, academics, or life derailed by unproven allegations.
I am sorry to learn that so many women believe the Judge Kavanaugh was innocent of any accusations. The FBI never questioned him under oath- why? Under oath there would have been a strong chance he would have committed perjury.
If the White House warranted a better investigation, they could have gotten to the truth of the matter. Instead what we are left with is a divided public, everyone believing what they want to believe.
17
The selection process for this piece makes it seem as if the responses were roughly 50/50 as to the injustice of the situation from a political and cultural point of view. Is this an accurate portrayal of the 40,000 respondents or an attempt to give equal time to differing opinions. I understand that the US Senate lined up this way, but are we to infer that women are equally split on this issue? I find this extremely difficult to believe...
13
@Sam Ladwig
It's not that any woman is for sexual assault, it is that we are against accessing someone 30 years too late, and expecting a woman's word only to ruin aans life. Dangerous precedent indeed
4
@Nat
Are you on the Supreme Court?
No?
Is your life ruined?
@DW
Um, ladwig specifically asked whether women were split on this issue, like they couldn't possibly believe any woman would side with Kavanaugh. So I explained why I side with Kavanaugh. Not that hard to understand really...... I am so glad we can't accuse people of things with no evidence and ruin their life.
1
Do not toss out the foundations of liberty in the passion of the moment. Do not become that which you profess to stand against. Do not belive everything you read in the news.
4
@Daphne
We were never in danger of tossing out the foundations of liberty. No one suggested imprisoning Kavanaugh, or even actually trying him for the crime he was accused of by Dr. Blasey Ford.
One of the foundations of liberty is a fair judiciary, with people of good character appointed as judges. Brett Kavanaugh is demonstrably not a good person.
2
@DW
The very fact no one was suggesting that Kavanaugh should go through an *actual* channel of justice to pay for the crime laid bare the hypocrisy that it was a political stunt - that no one really cared whether Ford was right or wrong. She was used as an expedient political pawn. And the fact that Ford *still* hasn't gone to the cops shows that her aim wasn't justice either - just keeping him off of the Supreme Court.
In every way, this latest debacle showed that liberty is in jeopardy. Why go through the courts when public opinion can ruin a man more? Why bother with justice of the law if accusations alone can keep them from advancing in their career? Why bother with silly things like evidence when you can just rely on political party or gender to decide what the "truth" is?
Several mothers are pledging to teach their sons about obtaining consent. Super! For their sons’ sake, and my daughters’, their advice needs to moves beyond the disingenuous, cynical and misogynist “Get it in writing.”
10
A LOT of these women apparently can't tell the difference between a job interview and a criminal trial.
30
@Abigail Arletto I’ve never been accused of rape during a job interview.
3
@James Burke
Regardless of what you, personally, have or haven’t been accused of during a job interview, this was one.
At my last job, we heard through the grapevine that a candidate to whom we’d already extended a verbal offer had done something seriously unethical. We called him back in to address the charges. Which he did, successfully. Had he thrown a tantrum, raged about “conspiracies” or got mouthy with the interviewing committee he’d have been out on his ear, pronto.
Whatever else Kavanaugh is, he’s immature and lacks self control. Either that or he’s stupid enough—and power hungry enough—to think Don McGahan’s advise made him look good.
8
@James Burke
I bet if a credible witness came forward and accused you sexual assault with a wealth of supporting evidence, you wouldn't expect to get the job though, would you?
Not unless the job was with the GOP, that is. Then it would be a great recommendation.
There is a back story to this subject that hasn't been discussed. I think it contributed significantly to the pre-formed decision of the Judicial Committee.
Donald Trump wanted THIS judge. Not one of the previous 16 or so submitted by the Federalist Society. No, he wanted the judge who would protect him, would be his Roy Cohn, and let him continue his predations while allowing him to pay no price whatsoever. As always.
You can bet that Trump laid down the law to McConnell, et al. The Committee was going to be in deep trouble if they didn't put Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court, by any means, fair or foul. We knew they would try to destroy Dr. Ford. Hoped not, but knew they would. With obvious calculated coldness. And they did, and still are.
And Brett Kavanaugh, instead of doing the right thing and withdrawing, could not turn loose of the prize that is most judge's dream - a long, sweet career on the Supreme Court, making laws for all the rest of us and enjoying the power he had always dreamed of.
The fix was always in. I admire Dr. Ford, and am sorry that her confidence in the power of justice led her to trust that committee of venal old men enough to appear before them. Dr. Ford, thank you. I am so sorry this has hurt you. Again. And I am sick over what we all saw take place that awful day, when women all over the country got a load of what Republicans were all about.
Lady Justice wept. So did I.
78
To paraphrase Barry Goldwater from 1964: "In your heart, you know she's right."
29
Yes they know she is right. They Did Not Care period!
1
What depressing responses. To know what so many women join in this feeling that what just happened in our judicial system was all just some sort of hoax. That Dr. Ford should never have come forward. And that the huge number of women who have had similar experiences should just shut up. It's frankly astounding.
48
"I will need to guard and protect the males in my family from false attacks." Wow!
I'd say you should tell the male in your family that if they act like an animal they will suffer the consequences. The vast majority of women will not put up with "boy will be boys" or "he has such a bright future" anymore... You've been dully warned.
40
@Jean
Exactly...Do not do anything you would not want to see displayed on the front page of the paper and if you do be prepared to own it, be sincerely sorry, and make reparations.
2
Last week, witnessing K’s entitled, white male tantrum before the committee - doing his best Trump impression - I wondered how 63% of white women voted for Trump.
The pro-K statements here help me understand.
23
@e Coli
No, no, no. 63% of white women didn't vote for Trump. 63% of evangelical white women voted for Trump.
3
I would like to know the percentage of women who wrote favorable responses and the percentage who wrote negative responses about Kavanaugh's approval.
I am so dismayed by the women who do not believe Dr Ford, have they never been assaulted? have they never known anyone who has been assaulted? What about all the Catholic young boys who were assaulted and have only come out years later?
Finally even if you did not believe Dr Ford, who would hire someone who behaved like Kavanaugh for any kind of job?
31
These women worrying about their little boys being falsely accused is laughable in light of proven statistics at the rarity of this happening. What it does show is the bias these women have embraced thanks to the media they choose to watch (Faux news?) and their emotions around wanting to protect their off-Spring at all costs.
And for those naive soils who think that just reporting assaults right after they happen will bring any justice, I suggest they look at the event in Alaska where a man was release with NO jail time after a kidnapping and sexual assault on a woman up there. He was charged with four felonies...four felonies....and still, he got off .
No, any wringing of hands at what 'could' happen to their poor, dear little man pales in comparison to the daily reality of too many women. Wake up and see the reality that is, not the myth that is being created by those in power with their agenda of 'protecting their own'.
34
As the Controller for a multiple state Civil Engineering firm and a young victim of sexual assault, I experienced and witnessed a lot of "don't believe the woman" nonsense. I am not surprised at the multitude of pro-Kavanaugh comments. Trump was elected because of the willingness to believe a screaming narcissist instead of a calm, rational woman. That has not changed. I'm disappointed with the ignorance expressed in the Reader Center. At least they should have dealt with the truth: Roe v Wade can be overturned, we do have a right to protest, it was not a trial. Don McGhan orchestrated the process from beginning to end. How does it feel to know you've been manipulated one more time?
33
WHO are these women? They are not me. For those who are over 40... How many of you can actually remember the address or exact location of a given party you were at in High School? I, for one, cannot. But I certainly CAN remember the name and face of the young man who sexually assaulted me at one of these parties. I'll never forget that.
I believe Dr. Ford and I am appalled that so many were so quick to dismiss her claims. God help us in 2020.
43
@Kayla McCormick - My prom date tried to rape me after the prom. We'd gone to an after-prom party, and then he took a "shortcut" on the way home. I don't remember where the after prom party was, I don''t remember who was there, and even the day after I couldn't have found the house in the country he took me to where he tried to rape me. But I remember his face, I remember his name, I remember his blue car. And I remember in vivid detail what he did. That was 55 years ago. And I never told anyone until a couple of years ago. I never even told my husband.
3
Interesting to see some folks saying due process.... but made no effort to understand what that is. If I am not mistaken, an allegation is made, an investigation is made to validate that allegation or invalidate it, evidence is collected, witnesses are all questioned, and they go to court. This case, only selected witnesses were questioned by people who were not investigators, then the investigators were given strict limits as to what they could investigate, and poof! All done?
I have a feeling that this will end up being a huge issue before long. Evidence and witnesses will be heard, and there will be a massive black eye on the party who demanded not to investigate him more thoroughly.
Honor and respect has left the building
33
Aside from the fact that misogyny is alive and blazingly well, one of the most disturbing things that comes out of this whole mess is how many citizens do not understand what "innocent until proven guilty" means. Namely, quite a few apparently believe that the presumption of innocence was denied to Brett Kavanaugh.
Then, with a president who can say with a straight face that Kavanaugh was "proven innocent," I suppose we can't really hope for the citizenry to have a better understanding of our justice system if the president doesn't.
14
@DW do you get that the hearings were not a trial, but job interview? Regardless, a jury would have convicted.
4
@Kevin
Yes - that was my point. People think he was denied presumption of imnpcence, but he wasn't. Sorry I wasn't clear.
It's pretty telling that every single one of the pro Kavanaugh women's advice way, at its essence, that women are never sexual assault victims, that they're all liars, and that it is fundamentally acceptable to commit sexual assault but it is not acceptable to say you were assaulted.
24
This commentary is a reply to a previous entry by Amber:
@Amber, good for you that you had the presence of mind to report your attackers to police and have rape exams done right away. But as a psychologist you should know that not all victims of sexual abuse react the same way as you after a sexual assault. Some victims are so traumatized that they recoil from the world and are unable to talk about it. Even when the victims are boys, most of them do not report their assault immediately, if ever. Think about all those well -documented Catholic church sexual assault cases in the past few decades, involving both boys and girls. Most of those kids have never come forward until now, decades after their traumatic experiences. As a psychologist you should know that you cannot generalize your experience and reactions to all other victims, including Dr. Ford’s.
37
Reading this....thank God I’ve moved to Canada.
12
Women who vote republican are voting against their autonomy and against access to healthcare. Poor women are already dying from limited access to healthcare and third rate care in Texas due to republican apathy. These culture wars are designed to outrage you and get you to vote against your interests.
Don’t be fooled....they are using you.
18
Kavanaugh revealed his true character during the hearings. He turned his back on the father of a murdered child, Fred Gutterman. No excuse for that. If BK had been a man of integrity, he would have sought Gutterman out to apologize. Problem #2: he exposed himself as a liar and perjurer. Putting aside his prevarications about his involvement in the Starr investigation snd the Bush administration, he full out lied about his drinking and behavior in HS and at Yale. What kind of man does that, instead of admitting and apologizing? I’ll tell you: a greedy, power hungry man who has no principles, no sense of decency, and no integrity. Hat a loser...brought to you by the republican party. No bar too low.
26
Clearly many of the women you showcased in this article who believe that the standard for women's truth is higher than the standard for men did NOT watch the entire hearings between Ford and Kavanaugh. No right minded rational person who actually paid attention to the hearings would think Kavanaugh is honest. He is not. He lied about the meaning of sexual terms on his yearbook. A simple google search can reveal that. What he may or may not have done to Ford years ago is bad enough, but how he lied on national television like a privileged white male who acted entitled to the Supreme Court job is a disgrace and insult to every half-witted American. He's now on the bench and he can sit right next to Justice Thomas.
39
@Jackie
He lied? Really?
- Several classmates have wrote in statements to the committee to inform them that "Devil's Triangle" was a term for a drinking game they had made up at the college, similar to quarters, just as Kavanaugh claimed. But I suppose everyone is now an expert on 80s regional and school specific slang?
- It might seem a little 'old school' but many high schools and colleges used to have a girl or two who would go to various events with men as friends (or vice versa) so people didn't have to be wallflowers. Some would get terms of endearment about them. It's not beyond reason to think that 'Renate Alumnis' was a reference to this - as she herself has claimed she didn't fool around with Kavanaugh or the other boys and several off them, including Kavanaugh, have claimed it was not a sexual term. The only classmate who has claimed it was sexual and horrifying was one of the year book editors! - the editor could have easily removed the term at the time if it was inappropriate. What's more likely - that Renate was a loose women and all her paramours are now lying, or that one classmate lied to get his 15 minutes of fame in an unverified NYT article where no one who contradicted the narrative was quoted?
To those of you who see Dr Ford's testimony as "liberal bias" or "untrue allegations" - congratulations. You have been suckered in to believing the old white GOP men who wanted you to see it that way - for their own gain.
Sexual assault knows no such boundaries. Women of all political orientations, all sexual orientiations, all ages, religious orientations, age, localities, have known sexual assault. As have men and children. To judge Christine Ford though the Republican white-male led haze of indignation does a disservice to ALL woman, men, and children that have been assaulted.
Assault knows no political boundaries, and for the republicans to use it as a political weapon is dirty business.
25
@Lisa G
Victims are #Notyourshield. You do not speak for all of us.
I don't believe Ford because:
#1 her story has changed multiple times in the past few months, *even within her own written polygraph statement.* Which version should I believe?
#2 Every named potential face witness has effectively refuted her claims, as their claims are mutually exclusive. Leland Keyser's testimony in this regard is the most telling, as she was Ford's close friend - she claims under penalty of perjury that she has never attended an event with Kavanaugh nor met him in person.
#3 There is no evidential basis on which to believe the allegations even 'somewhat likely.' At best, her allegations are theoretically possible, but less than 1% probable, of being true. This is based in general analysis of the pieces of evidence available, general standards of credibility, and the statistical likelihood of the allegations being true based on the baseline rates of various things happening for unknown factors.
For example, pick a few factors that would need to be true if Ford's account was true. Assign generous probability to them. Assume everyone involved as a 50/50 chance of lying or misremembering.
Judge lying: 50%
Kavanaugh lying: 50%
Leland misremembering: 50%
All 4 attending a drinking party together: 1%
Already, that's only a 0.125% chance, and there are many other factors to account. All factors without 100% probability lower overall probability.
I appreciate the NYT publishing these varied responses. They show that women can and do think for themselves and have different and nuanced opinions. To those that believe/know Justice Kavanaugh lied, stop tearing down the women who don't think as you do. Stop calling them names. Stop making fun of them. This is not the way to persuade or get them to change their positions. Senator Collins set forth her rationale for her vote in a reasoned and measured way, and got called a "rape apologist" for her efforts. I thank Senator Collins for making me understand why many women would support Justice Kavanaugh and for presenting the other side in such a thoughtful way.
7
@West Coast Independent
Just because her rationale was measured and reasoned doesn't change the underlying fact that she is willing prop up a man accused of attempted rape for a job wherein he can legislate women's bodies. In that respect, Senator Collins is a "rape apologist," like it or not.
8
@West Coast Independent
Senator Collins called upon Senator Franken to resign when allegations were made against him. And he did resign.
I don't see that as thoughtful. I see that as politcally motivated hypocrisy.
6
@West Coast Independent Thank you!
1
Very amusing to see how many women were willing to through Dr. Ford under the bus and are worried about their boys. i doubt their boys need worry if they don't harass or molest girls.
How about their daughters? Do they really think that there is a mob of women looking to lie about a guy's behavior? Are they really so sure that Dr. Ford was lying? We worry about males treating females as second class. Looks like some females treat their own that way. Did they not notice that Kavanaugh was flat out lying about some of his comments in his calendar as well as his behavior? Anyone notice that his outburst was not spontaneous? He was reading it while yelling at the senators and claiming a conspiracy against him without offering any proof of anything.
18
You don't 'teach' your sons to be gentlemen, or, how to be kind to women.
You live like every human being is worthy of respect and empathy.
14
I don't know how statistically representative of all the responses received these featured ones are, but if they are representative, the only thought I have is that there's a whole lot of denial among conservative women out there.
A WHOLE lot.
19
@Glenn Ribotsky
Or...they tead the letter from Dr. Ford’s exboyfriend which was submitted to the Senate late and public 7 days ago.
5
@william f bannon
A boyfriend not knowing a person's entire life history is hardly surprising. No one is obligated to share their trauma with anyone at any time.
@william f bannon - Why would someone tell a short-term boyfriend something like that? I and my friends never told our husbands about being sexually assaulted back then. Because we Did Not Tell.
1
I am disheartened by the seemingly high number of women who chose to believe that Dr. Ford was lying And I am sickened by the way both political parties’ representatives acted during this entire episode. I think the message for future generations is clear: in 2018, women in America are still viewed by white men (as a whole) as second class citizens. But I think we already knew that. And I think that there are women who don’t have a problem with that. It fits in to their world view and their view of themselves and probably their roles in life. And you’re never going to change that in them. More importantly, our governmental system of checks and balances doesn’t work. The Founders tried to create a structure that was impervious to the whims of the human condition. For those who don’t take it for granted it may work well enough. But too many, as indicated by voter turn out figures, do take it for granted and thus all true accountability has been removed from the system. And more than 3 branches of government or anything else, the Founders believed that the vote was the ultimate check on those who may undertake government service for the wrong reasons. So I think term limits are required for both Congress and the Judiciary. I think Supreme Court appointments should be limited to 10 years. It would remove the relative import of the pick. In 1793, the average lifespan was 36 years. I suspect they were thinking there would be turnover more often than there is at this point.
12
I am not certain if the comments from the women published were representative. If you start with inaccurate suppositions, you will end with unsound opinions. The lawyer's comments seemed reasonable and was accurate. She raised one of the myths that the Republicans seeded after the allegation were made: that Kavanaugh was not permitted a right of innocense until "proven" guilty. Evidenciary proof beyond doubt was a Republican rouse that turned the hearing into a circus.
The hearing was supposed to be an interview. It became a trial requiring proof beyond doubt. Innocent until proven guilty was not a requirement of the hearing. The Committee had no authority to decide on a legal standard usually limited to a Judge and the nature of the case: criminal or civil.
The testimony of Dr. Ford was believeable. The rebuttal of Judge Kavanaugh was not believable. He seemed disparate. His angry rhetorical flourish about left-wing 5th Column and 'the Clintons' was contrived and concocted to play into the Republican Senators game plan. President Trump let loose on Twitter to infomr his Base that Dr. Ford was a shill for the Dems all along.
One of the commenter's suggested that Kavanaugh should have admitted he had a serious drinking problem ~35 yrs. ago and often blacked-out and did not recall details of Dr. Ford allegations. He needed to be contrite and sincerely appologize to Dr. Ford.
He choose the wrong approach. He denied his 'stupid drunk' periods. He isn't fit for the job.
20
When an adult male says he was molested by a priest 30 years ago and never told anyone why does everyone automatically believe him? Perhaps too many women and men in society are biased against women
25
This is the saddest thing to read.
13
Surprisingly balanced. Thank you. Now, can't women of the left and right get together and form a movement to have EVERYONE report EVERY crime to the local police as soon thereafter as possible, in order to at least build a record? And if you're a minor, tell your parents? This thing would never have gotten this far if Dr. Ford or her parents had called the cops. #callitin
4
@Observer of the Zeitgeist
I don't know why you think this wouldn't never have gotten this far if the cops had been called back in 1982. That is a pretty big assumption. If the cops had been called, even if a charge had stuck - which is HIGHLY unlikely - wealthy white teenage boys' drunken shenanigans? a slap on the wrist at best - and given his wealth and connections it would almost certainly have been expunged from his record and he'd have had no problem going on to Yale, Yale Law, "brilliant" career.
So when he was nominated for the Supreme Court, decades later, she would have faced exactly the same choice: Tell her story in hopes that it counted for something; or not, because he got away with it and will likely always get away with it.
11
@Observer of the Zeitgeist
I told adults and they did nothing. I was eight years old.
14
@DW, if an assailant named in a police report of a sexual assault gets nominated to the Supreme Court, I'd bet cash to kale that the nomination doesn't go through even if the case goes no further. That's all.
Are the responses that you chose to publish in this article a fair representation of the 40,000 you received? I am reading this as approximately 2/3 who took Judge Kavanaugh's side. Is that accurate? I would like to see a statistical summary of the responses, because I am, frankly, shocked at the number of women in this sampling who supported Kavanaugh.
20
@Jane I, too would like to see the breakdown. But I am not shocked as it reflects what I am hearing among my friends and acquaintances.
4
@Jane. I agree with your observation. After seeing the thousands of women and men who rightly and constitutionally expressed their opposition to Kavanaugh, these are the opinions the NYT chose to highlight? Out of 40,000 responses I would expect to see at least a more balanced response.
4
@Jane It seems to me that the replies are almost 80% in opposition to Kavanaugh.
retired attorney F/70:
Lesson: Teach the full truth about our "founding fathers" every year, starting about third grade! Use drawings to make an indelible imprint on our memory about who wrote the constitution and those it was was intended to protect: white + male + land owners. Only white male land owners could vote and become elected leaders -- anywhere.
The Last Word msnbsc did a breathtaking 7-minute video that presents the whole truth . . .with images of those white male land owners who were our "founding fathers." Use this video--unedited--to teach and do it now.
Reaction: Until every citizen agrees on the facts of our day one as a nation, we cannot start to repair our divides and secure for our kids and their kids the broadening constitutional embrace of more people over time. Most especially, women and immigrant-citizens and non-whites and LGBTQ need to have both the right to vote and a SCOTUS that will outlaw every trick tried anywhere that results in quashing their vote.
Without these agreed upon and taught facts and goals, our collective history, we can easily return to rule by monied white men. You want to go back to day one? I don't.
7
@n.c.fl
I was terrified after the committee started the hearings, much older male colleagues of mine didn't know the process.
While serving during Clinton, anything was played on bases, under GWB, all televisions on bases were ordered to be on FoxNews, while Obama, anything played, under Trump ordered Foxnews.
2
Thankfully we still believe in innocent until proven otherwise. That said, it seems unfathomable that any woman in the United States can support Trump given his unparallelled misogyny.
1
This article would be much more informative if s graph had been provided showing the breakdown of pro-con responses. A “selection” of responses without explanation of how they were selected and what proportion they represent might be seen as entertaining-or provocative-but it is not news.
12
Nicole - She obviously has never been assaulted. She has no empathy for women who have been.
Meredith - she was voting Republican already.
Tanya - This wasn't a "court of law", but it could be if Dr. Ford wanted to file charges. It was a job interview. If Clinton was nominated to be a Supreme Court Justice he should be questioned on the allegations of Juanita Broadrick, et. al.
Renee - Senator Collins didn't look at all the facts. She ignored Kavanagh's disgraceful behavior in his hearing. She believed his personal appeals to her that he wasn't lying, but she didn't similarly talk to Dr. Ford who would have told her forcefully that she was 100% sure it was him. How do you "know" he was truthful and she was not? What do you think of Heidi Heitkamp who was going to vote yes, and changed it to no because of the hearing?
Monique - Protect your daughter - the statistics show she will need it more. But advise your son to treat women with respect for that 2% chance someone might falsely accuse him.
Melissa - I totally agree with you! We all have done things we wish we hadn't. But the truth will set you free. Admit to your shortcomings, make amends to those you have harmed. How different all this would have been if Kavanagh hadn't pulled a "Trump".
Jennifer - You are so naive to think Roe V Wade cannot be overturned. States are already making the right to an abortion all but impossible. Educate yourself.
15
@Donna Perfectly said. When I think about the statistics that unequivocally show the amount of false accusations to be incredibly low, the only take away from these responses for me is how pervasive Faux news is and how far the hysteria on the right has reached. The emotions of unfounded fear on the part of these mothers of sons is astounding.
6
Excellent feature. Rather refreshing to read such a broad view of women's opinions in an international publication.
Thank you.
5
@GWB That's the problem. It was not a broad view at all.
5
@Karen M
Why do you think not?
The comments attacking Dr. Ford make me so angry. She had zero to gain from coming forward and everything to lose. The comment about we will never lose Roe because it's the law is beyond naive, especially since Trump said outright that this nominee was that goal and that is why Trump made it to the Oval Office. Rep King of Iowa is already bragging about it in a Tweet. Wake up women!
12
@reader123 - The fact is that this wasn't about Roe. Alito, Roberts, and Gorsuch made it through without a single accusation of sexual assault. All 3 were selected in part because they're thought to be sure votes to get rid of roe, or cripple it. This was about a man who was clearly not of the character we expect from our Supreme Court Justices. He proved that to us by his out of control, conspiracy-ridden rant.
1. Due process doesn’t permit a jury that has already made its decision. So, the notion of due process in this case is a farce.
2. Due process doesn’t exclude relevant evidence. Kangaroo courts do.
3. Seems to me that Dr. Blasey Ford’s testimony was far more credible than Justice Kavanaugh’s.
4. Seems to me that Justice Kavenaugh coveted being a “Justice” more than justice itself. Bad combination, given his political agenda.
5. The lesson for abusers: follow your president-mentor’s advice; lie and deny; never let conscience get in the way, even though it is not ethical or moral.
6. We should not validate President Trump’s atttitude towards women. Vote against the Trump agenda.
23
These women sadden me.
Vote for your daughters as if their lives depended on it - because it does.
18
I understand the need to present all viewpoints and appear fair. However, I stopped reading after about the fourth pro-Kavanaugh comment. I cannot believe that fully half of the responses were of that ilk, as your format implies. Please publish some aggregated statistics: what percentage of respondents supported Kavanaugh and Ford? what percentage indicated a defensive takeaway for men/boys? what percentage indicated that they see this as a slap to all women?
21
The Republican party line comes too easily to too many of these women as if it had originated in their own thoughts, the most insidious form of propaganda. The Lesson: Learn to think for yourself. Take a look at women's lived experience. Take a look at https://www.crowdpac.com/campaigns/387413/fund-susan-collins-future-oppo... Sen. Susan Collins' constituents are so angry at her failure to represent their concerns about Kavanaugh that they have raised over 3 million dollars to help vote Collins out of office.
10
Regarding sexual assault charges before 2,000, just like the pro-kavanaugh people we didn't believe our guy did it. In the 35 years since then we have realized that all accusations must be heard and considered. This is not about innocent until proven guilty. It's about looking at character, reputation and actions. What I've learned since 1999 puts me solidly with Ms. Broaddrick
2
@Barbara
Meaning that you opposed the Kavanaugh nomination?
Women aren't bargaining chips. I don't know if Clinton was guilty of raping Broadrick. I do know I am not okay with a moral philosophy that says if a former Democratic president got away with raping a woman, a Republican Supreme Court nominee is also allowed to get away with it, too (or, to be fair, an attempted rape).
Fair's fair, right? If Democrats can assault women, so can Republicans?
God help us.
Women are people - not chess pieces in powerful men's games.
9
@DW Nobody should "get away with it"! The implication that the harm these two men could do is equal is ludicrous. Kavanaugh has close to 40 years to bias the Supreme Court. A president has only 8. I hope Kavanaugh gets impeached.
@Heather Miller
I'm afraid my sarcasm is being missed. I've written dozens of comments on this, I guess I'm forgetting people don't necessarily know where I'm coming from. I'm in complete agreement with you.
This was a job interview. The people who hired this Supreme Court judge want this type of a person in that position. I speculate the reason you published these responses is to incite change. Vote!
3
I have a very hard time believing the Times saw as many “worried for my poor sons” comments as they did comments in support of Dr. Ford. A very, very hard time believing that
12
@H. Savage
I agree. I have a son and I am not the slightest bit worried he'll ever be falsely accused of rape. He has a greater chance of being struck by lightning.
5
I would be interested in an update with a general sense of how the 40,000 responses played out: How many found one argument or the other more persuasive? How many said their minds were changed? I understand curating from the total comments to give a sense of the range of comments, but I would be very interested in how the NY Times team would characterize the overall response.
13
So this is why women often side with the men in such cases: they don't trust their own sons, i.e. the upbringing their own sons have received.
5
She submitted a polygraph. Did Justice Kavanaugh? Brazenly harsh criticism for some of the highlighted interviewees, especially from Palo Alto and Arkansas.
3
I'm surprised at how many women commenting here saw Dr. Ford's testimony as a partisan hatchet job or "playing the victim". There isn't as much solidarity around resisting sexual abuse as I would have thought. Whatever makes women support Republicans despite their misogyny, I don't understand.
9
I'd be interested in knowing what proportion of the 40,000 responses was positive for Kavenaugh and what proportion was not. Clearly you want to be fair and have both sides represented in your article, which is good. But what the women who support Kavenaugh are saying is so grounded in ignorance that it is profoundly disturbing for me to read their responses. Why don't more people read?! Why don't more people use critical thinking?! Why do people just jump to conclusions and believe whatever they are told or whatever instinct hits them without researching the facts? I despair for this country when I realize how many people are just downright ignorant - and often willfully so.
13
"If I were advising a son, I would tell him to avoid like the plague any woman who identifies with people who will do literally anything for power, because she cannot be trusted to treat you with fairness and honesty."
So...avoid women who hang out with power-hungry men? What?
"If I were advising a daughter, I would tell her not to be like them. Don’t play the victim. Don’t lie for attention and money and power. Be fair-minded and honest and decent."
SO, if your daughter is raped you'll tell her not too play the victim? To walk it off? What the...?
Her daughter will never tell her mother is she is assaulted because Mum will clearly not believe her or blame her.
9
Dear Monique Dorsey,
Every man is not a rapist. But every rapist has a mother. The mother of mine suffered a pretty traumatic shock in her life when after 15 years her son confessed to what he'd done to me.
She should have figured out something about him was wrong. But what mother out there doesn't want to see the best in her son?
8
From these comments, it sounds like so many men are being falsely accused of sexual assaults. That's interesting because about a third of my good friends have told me their own sexual assault stories... but I've never heard a personal account from any man telling me about a false accusation against him. Maybe we should start hearing from all these men who have been falsely accused... because it seems like A LOT!! I mean, the therapists (and psychotherapists) in this country must be making a killing off all these men whose lives have been ruined by false accusations! Those poor victimized men!
13
The Kavanaugh vote and the comments from so many readers responding was baffling. My advice for the next generation of women is if you are raped or assaulted and your assailant does not give you a signed receipt stating time and place of the assault, better keep quiet. If you speak up you will be the one punished.
7
@JessiePearl - I was a young woman in the early '60s. I remember saying that if a woman was raped, even by a stranger, she'd better throw herself down a flight of stairs in order to come up with the kind of injuries that would persuade law enforcement that she hadn't secretly "wanted it" and then changed her mind afterward. Women back then just didn't tell. I certainly didn't. Things hadn't changed all that much when Blasey Ford was attacked.
It is always the truth of evidence that should win the case, not the weight of the words, the number of pages or the loudness of shouting. Anyone who argues there was “no evidence” against this man has no understanding of due process or maybe, having understanding, lies about the truth’s not outweighing the volume of evidence. Honest judges instruct that three truthful words outweigh volumes of lies. That is the character of testimony, and testimony is evidence, not a box of “evidence” or a “video.” Technology has distorted Americans’ brains.
6
Points about due process (even if the standards of proof are lower than in court, allegations are not proof) and mismanagement by the Democrats (raised a circus, timed suspiciously late, put Dr.Ford in a painful situation, with no ultimate effect).
Women are smarter than politicians imagine.
I complained about #metoo overreach, such as in the case of Al Franken (dumb joke from a professional comedian on a tour) or Aziz Ansari (bad date that involved only consensual sex).
Not to mention the sometimes idiotic Title IX rituals where (really) a single allegation mandates an automatic investigation, during which the accused is often suspended from school to protect the victim.
But I suspect a lot of the overreach comes from people who don't really understand or care about the concerns of true victims. Good intentions don't always result in good deeds.
2
Amazing and depressing that the main takeaway lesson for many respondents (probably the vast majority of them Republicans, because you see what you want to see) is not to make false allegations. False? FALSE??? Sorry but there is no evidence that Ford did any such thing, and in fact though her testimony is unsubstantiated by other testimony, there is little doubt that she is telling the truth.
9
@RickyDick "Little doubt that she is telling the truth"? How so? There is no EVIDENCE that she is telling the truth, so there is no truth in what she stated. Affirming something is not the same as providing evidence for it. Her case would have never made it to court, so she took the easy way out: take it to the irrational and emotional mob to "support" her.
2
@Eduard C Hanganu
There was quite a bit of circumstantial and corroborating evidence, including the results of a polygraph (once deemed an "effective law enforcement too"l by Judge Kavanaugh) that support the widely held opinion that Dr. Blasey-Ford was indeed telling the truth.
Please take some time to familiarize yourself with our legal system, and notions of truth and justice. An inconclusive result after a deliberately curtailed investigation is not the same as exoneration, despite Trump's statements to the contrary.
@Eduard C Hanganu "The easy way out"? Do you think having to move her family to an undisclosed location due to her receiving death threats, being mocked by the President, and then being subjected to Senators dismissing her testimony is "the easy way out????
1
What really scares me is that so many people in the US don't see a problem with appointing as Supreme Court JUDGE someone who might have committed a serious crime before the evidence was properly assessed to exclude at least any reasonable doubt in that person's moral and legal integrity.
What kind of thinkiong may motivate people to approve of Kavanaugh's appoinment at this point without a proper careful investigation? All answers I can come up with are horrible:
We can't be sure he didn't do it, but lets take the risk because ...
... raping a woman is not a crime to worry about so much.
... it doesn't matter if someone is a criminal if he's on our ideological side.
What is truth? If Democrats say it, or if it fits the Democrats' agenda, it must be false.There is no evidence that I would accept as reliable from such a source anyway.
6
40,000 responses but no breakdown of how many women supported each side and what party they identify with? Going by the few highlighted here, the reader would surmise that most American women think Dr. Ford lied. Yet all the women in my life--except the diehard conservative Republicans--believe her and are repulsed by him. Am I living in a liberal bubble, or are there really that many women who distrust their own sex enough to give a free pass to a proven liar? The guy lied/prevaricated through his entire testimony, days before the assault charges. He even lied about silly, little things. That is a character flaw that should have disqualified him, regardless of what Dr. Ford said.
11
I was struck by what read like concern for sons over daughters in this list of responses. So I went back, reread and ended up counting usage of words 'son' and 'daughter' in this article-- count came out 10 and 5 respectively. Surely, we're all fair people and this measures nothing real.
2
I think it is very irresponsible for the New York Times publishing some of these comments that sadly perpetuate rape culture and the narrative that men need to protect themselves against "lying" women. Just because the words come from women doesn't make them okay. No respectable paper would ever publish the same comments if they were made around defending institutional racism. We live in a society where women are disproportionately the victims of violence, sexual assault, pay inequality and harassment. The idea that men are the victims and women are out to get them is an erroneous and dangerous narrative to perpetuate. Would you publish someone claiming whites are the real victims of racism and people of color just have it out for them? I doubt it. People are entitled to free speech, but that doesn't mean you have to publish it when it promotes hate, falsehoods, and discrimination against 51% of the population.
17
@Jesse I have mixed feelings about reading those same comments, but whether racism or rape culture I think we need a clear picture of what our reality is, so we can figure out how to make it better.
6
@Rebecca
I agree. As disheartening as this was to read, it gives a clear picture of the internalized misogyny that progressives are up against and explains why so many white women voted for Trump despite his own admissions of sexual assault.
1
The place of women in the USA: lots of talk, pitiful results. Have a look at the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap 2017 report. The USA ranks 49 (out of 144 countries). . And what about the significant number of American women who do not believe that a gender gap exists. How can that be? It seems you are stuck in 1950. Get a grip gals. Don’t let partisan nonsense stop progress. It is time for you to pull together.
10
The whole process was a sham! Our now Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh did not carry himself well during the interview process. He played the "I didn't do nuttin'!" game way too much. He lied several times under questioning and even former students who knew him personnally came out to call this, bending of the truth he was doing to make himself look good and nobel, a farce. Those are facts. But here's the thing: When I look back at my first sexual experience. I remember almost everything, who, where, what, and why but not exactly when and I wasn't under any diress which normally causes one to remember even more details. Or am I wrong here? It looked like his honor was completely guilty, but her lack of even a general knowlege of the place where it happened is really hard for me to understand. This was her town, near her school, not some far away place. If anything it would suggest that we need to do more research into what happens to a person who goes through a stress like that, becasue we clearly do not know enough on that issue, or it wasn't reported. All that got reported was the president mocking it and that's not doing it justice. Becasue if that's the tip of the iceberg, we need to stop the cause and soon.
2
@William P 55 years ago, when I was 18, I would go with a couple friends to another friend's apartment. We just hung out, and there were no traumatic experiences, just having fun. Saturday night at Jim's became a thing in our larger group, and many coveted an invitation to join us. So, these trips to Jim's place were important to me and I remember a lot of details about those time: walking into the converted house, going down the hall to Jim's apartment, the layout of the apartment, But - I have searched and searched through those memories, and I cannot tell you the exact location. All I can remember is the Street name. But that street runs at least 5 miles through a couple towns, so that covers a lot of possible addresses. I don't find Christine ford's not knowing the exact location surprising at all, since she probably didn't drive there, she would been a passenger who didn't have any reason to know the address.
4
NYT readers are surprised by the responses that are published in the column. I think I can explain why. We are used to the echo chamber of the comments section which represent a very narrow section of the country. The column itself is a much broader sampling which is more reflective of the country itself. Again liberal NYT readers have lost touch with the prevailing opinions of the country and like to retreat to their own echo chamber. By the way I am a liberal.
7
@Ethan
HRC got 2.8 million more votes than Trump. Liberal opinions are the prevailing opinions of the country. Poll after poll shows that progressive ideas like single-payer healthcare are very popular. Gerrymandering, voter suppression, and apathy among youth voters is how the GOP has strung together its victories.
1
@Christopher polls also showed us Hillary winning comfortably. They were wrong. If you take out California Hillary gets swamped in the popular vote. My experience in the real world is that liberalism, particularly clear leftism is solidly in the minority. If you question people on single issues that would benefit them like free healthcare you will get results. If the dems want to win they need to put together a package that people will perceive to their benefit, but democrats trying to claim moral superiority is a loser. Why it work for the right I don't know.
@Ethane - From 35% to 49% of red state voters are Democrats who have to look to our blue state brethren to look out for our interests. Obviously you talk only to people who support your views. In my red, red state, most of my friends are Democrats and liberals.
Out of 40,000 responses these responses that talk about Dr Ford as if she made something up seem not credible to me. And I'm wondering why you picked them? It wasn't a trial and it's absurd that woman are telling their sons to watch out for woman who might falsely accuse them...REALLY? The liberals are immature teenagers? REALLY? Were we all watching the same proceedings?
7
@Barbara S. If the Times sample here actually reflects the opinions of the women in the USA, it shows that the rape culture is alive and well, aided and abetted by a large % of women.
4
Living in Ireland, I find it hard to believe some of the quotes in the article. It's startling to see how many woman believe this was fabricated and that false reports of rape are widespread, that they're accepting of a nominee who has clearly lied many times over, that this was all some wild political attack.
Has your political affiliation become so important in America that it matters above all else? Have people lost the ability to think independently? That man wouldn't get a job in any other developed country in the world, let alone one of the most important jobs there so.
It's sad to see how America has become so deeply divided and blinded along partisan lines and so, unbelievably angry.
14
people worldwide remain appalled that the GOP could just 'plow through' the truth. There was planty of evidence to prove Kavanaugh's guilt- but it wasn't examined- not even Dr Ford and Kavenaugh were contacted. But the truth is out there:when President Trump said Kavenaugh was innocent he offended every decent American, becauseThe FBI was not allowed to conduct a genuine enquiry. 'A fellow student wrote: 'Many of us who lived in Lawrance Hall during 1983-1984 approached the FBI last week offering help with its inquiries. I promised a list of names of people who may have attended the party at which Ramirez claims to have been assaulted. The FBI never returned my call. Based on what has now been revealed about the FBI report, I do not believe that the FBI contacted people on that list.
Other classmates had far more valuable information to provide. One can corroborate that he heard about the incident with Ramirez right after it occurred from a classmate. The FBI never returned his calls, either. A theologian at one of our nation’s leading universities, he did not “search and destroy.” He just wanted a proper look at the allegations so that we all could reach our own conclusions on the basis of facts, not hearsay and partisan mudslinging.' Kavenaugh was guilty and you let him ascend to a role he is unfit for- hence the justified anger about this blatant whitewashing of the truth.
15
What has been highlighted for me is how easily we are manipulated. Sexual assault is common, men suffering consequences for it is rare., and even rarer are false accusations. The fact that so many women say that they are afraid for their sons, not their daughters, is a measure of the power of the President's fear-mongering.
18
If the sample is representative it is very depressing, because then too many are beyond getting it.
9
I watched his performance. Only a small portion of his paper trail was available to the senators. My questions is, "why was that". The FBI investigation was a farce.
The bottom line is: he is not Supreme Court material.
12
All of the evils of white patriarchy wouldn’t be possible without the support of white women. The fact that someone’s response to not just this episode, but to an entire year of “Me Too” stories coming out, is that they need to “protect their sons from false attacks” is so completely disheartening. Our culture’s misogyny is so deeply ingrained it feels as though it’s impossible to change.
25
@Sheila It is actually worse, as patriarchy is the norm (and even stronger so), outside of the western world as well. Does this mean we should say all women, African, Asian, Latino etc. are complicit in the persistence of patriarchy? Maybe yes. But is a kind of oppression that is psychologically harder to oppose than any other, because the people you have to oppose are also beloved family members, and people you depend on.
6
@Sheila
While it is extremely disheartening to realize that so many white women stand behind the abhorrent behavior of their men, I think it is a cop out to blame them for the conduct of the perpetrators. Are these women complicit? Yes, but I do not believe that there is enough self-realization for the group to be truly culpable.
These women still largely believe the national fairy tale that justice prevails for all, and not just the elite who are able to pay for the most competent representation (whose general partner coincidentally belongs to the same country club as several members of the court). Without adversity, it is impossible to realize that you are 'other', too.
6
I am stunned that any woman's advice to sexual assault victims would be to come forward immediately. It really often does not work that way. Really.
12
She begged her SON to take “necessary precautions”? I guess she got the Trump message about men being the victims. Unbelievable. Sorry, it’s women who are the victims of sexual assault, and it’s people like Kavanaugh who are the predators. My message for my son? Treat women with respect. And I hope my daughter runs if she ever comes across anyone like the president.
10
A number of studies indicate that between 2% and 8% of women who report sexual assault/rape do so falsely. The most detailed/extensive of these studies---and, the ones most widely accepted---report false accusations to be 4%-5% of the total reported.
Taking the latter as a lodestone, this means that 95%-96% of sexual assaults/rapes reported are considered credible by law enforcement entities.
Data about the actual reporting of sexual assault/rape varies widely---from a low of 5% to a high of 33%. Take the low, take the high, this data still indicates that the vast majority of victims never report being sexually assaulted/raped. Indeed, were their number factored into the credible/not credible studies, the reported percentage of false accusations would drop appreciably.
Sexual assault/rape victims, far more often than not, experience a malignant combination of guilt and shame that often casts a terrible shadow over the rest of their lives. That many victims who report their experiences are subjected to further victimization by societal elements exponentially increases the darkness of that shadow.
Having watched the unbearable public humiliation of Dr. Blasey Ford---which yet continues, now as campaign messaging---at the hands of a president, his partisan hacks and his cult of visceral, reflexive followers, one is left to wonder just how many more victims will, alone and silent, just retreat deeper into their personal darkness. And, remain there.
21
My head is spinning. I find it so hard to believe that so many women believe the Trump propaganda concerning the Kavanaugh hearing. Didn't they watch with their own eyes Dr. Ford's testimony? Didn't they see the stunningly bad responses and outrageous temperament from Kavanaugh?
The propaganda. It's the propaganda. I cannot believe so many women actually believe this stuff, which is stuffed into their minds by Fox News and other right-wing conduits. My head is spinning.
19
@vica Believe Ford? I watched her "testimony" very carefully, but I did not find anything credible in what she claimed. Only those who listen with their emotions and not with their reason find her narrative credible.
1
@Eduard C Hanganu, you mean the highly disgusting emotional responses Kavanaugh gave? He gave a performance in which he lied throughout and fact, he would never be hired from any company. If this administration had disclosed all relevant information and documents instead of hiding them, more EMOTIONAL people would be little more trusting in this process.
1
@Eduard C Hanganu
But of course you have no emotions. Other people have emotions, not you. It's not possible that emotion affected YOUR reaction in watching Dr. Ford.
Reading these answers astonished and saddened me. Aside from factually having an undeveloped sense of the differences between court and job hearings with a senate committee, the overall lack of compassion and empathy for another woman is painfully striking.
I'm especially horrified by simpleton answers to life: don't lie, be fair minded, be decent, stop making everything about gender, be kind, follow the law, have respect for the rule of law. All of these are good general advice and I agree with all of them ... but using them as ways to deal with a woman who's already been assaulted seems gratuitously cruel. You can do all of these things, and yet when a guy attacks you he doesn't ask whether you've been a "good girl" and followed all these rules ... he just ruthlessly attacks ... and then, adding insult to injury, these women in this article see the "answer" in simply not giving even a hint of feeling for a woman who's been abused by such a man?
They seem more worried about protecting their sons ... but why? If you want your son protected from false allegations, teach your son to treat women as real people, with respect, and with dignity. If he treats women well, they won't report him because there will be nothing to report. Teach your son right and wrong, and make clear that if he finds himself doing wrong, you won't back him up ... because if he does this kind of wrong, nobody (not even a mother) should back him up.
20
@Not Amused Absolutely the best response.
1
This has made me feel worse than I felt before (and I didn’t think that was possible). It’s bad enough to hear the criticism from all the men but to hear it from women too is so disheartening.
22
What about the rest of the 40,000 women who responded? Did the Times do an analysis to determine what percentage of those women believed Dr. Ford and what percentage did not? I would like to know and I hope you will assign someone to aggregate the responses, because as others have said in commenting, I can’t believe such a large number of women found her to be a liar and his denials to be the truth.
And aside from that aspect of the testimony, I found Kavanaugh to be a poor liar to straightforward questions asked by Democratic senators—pausing, hemming, and challenging them disrespectfully when he couldn’t come up with a good lie. And how about his overt politicizing in his testimony—blaming the Clintons!—and his cowardice, hiding behind his innocent daughters, whom he used to elicit sympathy.
At a meeting tonight I met a woman whose daughter took Dr. Blasey’s course last semester. She reports that Dr. Blasey is unassuming, sincere, genuine, warm, and cares about her students. That sounds like the character of the woman who testified at her own peril to do her civic duty.
25
@Barbara I hope the NYTimes takes your comment seriously and responds with their analysis.
Funny to me --- I resigned as chair of a pageant after 3 years due to the behavior of about half the contestants, their mothers, sisters, friends, etc. All made disgusting advances. Finally, it was too much. As to the other contestants, they were perfect! Now we know that it is improper to sexually abuse, rape and falsely accuse someone of the same. Based upon my experience, and granted, no one really knows except the 2 (I tend to believe Kavanaugh as the accusers allegations were not provable or reliable to me), I believe he was falsely accused. That does not make the allegations OK if others do it and I believe that the public has to be careful about mixing Kavanaugh with the bad guys. Otherwise, what would you tell your grandson, son, husband, brother, father, etc. if they were false accused?
1
@HonestRealityGuy You do know that pageant contestants are not representative of all women, and especially all women who do not participate in these pageants in any way, right? So, judging the behavior of that tiny sample and extrapolating that to judge the behavior of all women is just wrong. I wonder, since you found the testimony of Dr. Ford "not provable or reliable" what it would take for you to change your opinion?
3
So many of these women are outraged by the fact that Kavanaugh is being condemned with so little evidence, and yet they are certain that Ford is lying, with no evidence whatsoever.
22
I wish Democrats had moved to adjourn right after Kavanaugh's opening tirade and demand he produce evidence his claim that this questioning of his sanitized image was revenge on the part of the Clintons - he made several accusations with no evidence and there was no demand for proof or corroboration. My wife and two daughters took away the same message - women are not believed. I believe them and I believed Dr. Ford.
17
@MJM
I'd have asked to have him removed from the room after he began uttering threats ("What goes around comes around.")
Definitely a person with the temperament he showed, I'd advise my daughters to steer clear of. Those big brash alpha male "I'm in charge of the universe because I went to Yale" types, when drunk and angry (which is often the same thing) are dangerous.
5
@DW - I've said before that if a job applicant had done even a tenth of what Kavanaugh did in the hearing, I'd have had him escorted out by security.
I am shocked by this column. While I love the fact that the NYTimes has provided "real" commentary from various women, I find it hard to believe that approximately 50% of the women who provided commentary were on the side of Kavanaugh. Please provide more information on your interview process and how you chose these particular comments.
My primary concern with having Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court is not whether or not he attacked Dr. Ford; it is his temperament, his extreme partisanship, and his way of shading the truth (I could call it lying). As one of the writers in the column said, he could have said something about how he got drunk in high school; how he may have made a mistake; he doesn't remember; and he apologizes. But that would not be the way of the current Republican party or occupant of the White House.
25
Please ask their children, male and female, and their friends, to remember this moment.
Passing unnoticed, underneath the partisan noise and media loops about SCOTUS, are absurd ideas: one, a federal appeals court judge offered before the Senate Judiciary Committee, a Clinton conspiracy--a partisan whole cloth without proof or evidence, no line of reasoning (beside a lost election), without an interlogic of facts, with no material ties of this conspiracy.
This partisan assertion in the judge's opening statement went unaddressed through the rounds of the hearing by a prosecutor and 21 senators!
Give me evidence, emails, executive orders, witnesses, participants of this conspiracy. If you can't or or won't, I can reasonably conclude: you're lying.
You have no evidence or facts, no proof, no material ties about the claim! You're lying. Later you lied about the legal drinking age, it was 21 when you were 18; took a near hit for the July 1st calendar entry; you lied about teenage slang.
Are you lying about the conspiracy, too? Was that the first of the lies you told that day? Before you cried, turned bellicose, talking back defiantly to a female senator?
The conspiracy's burden of proof is on you. Judges know the importance of proof. Show the cause of action!
Without it, I can only conclude you're lying. I'm not going to change my vote. "Is it better to be raped and silent or raped and shamed? These are the choices actual victims are left with!"
19
@Walter Rhett "Is it better to be raped and silent or raped and shamed? These are the choices actual victims are left with!"
I wish more people could understand this.
2
If I could write every citizen a letter this is what it would say...
Dear Citizens,
I have never felt the need to comment on the NYT because I have always believed and trusted them as an honest and fair reporting resource.
It is clear to me now that our country is divided on the wrong things. It is really scary how we have become so full of hate, mistrust that it blinds us from recognizing the most simplest rule of life....
Treat one another with respect. Do unto others what you would want them to do unto you. Listen. Share. Love. Are these not the Golden Rules.
I realize I have been in denial about what a good job politicians have done at driving us apart. I beg you to consider your votes next month not based on party lines but based on the person who shares the values closely aligned with the actions above.
I believe women when they say they are assaulted. I believe we should be able to trust our Supreme Court Justices without any doubt or suspicion of wrong doing that needs an FBI investigation no matter the outcome. If these two basic notions are so horrible.... I might really have to consider going back to my birth country of Canada sooner rather than later.
Truly Saddened,
SS
9
I viewed the Senate confirmation of Kavanaugh and the process around it to be a purely political strategy by the Koch brothers and their sycophants in Congress to elevate a political hack to the SC who can be guaranteed to support their agenda on every case. Don McGahn, White House Counsel, who among other nefarious things, worked for the Koch affiliated Freedom Partners, was the man who insisted the nominee had to be Kavanaugh and worked tirelessly in the last two weeks to coach Kavanaugh and wife about how to present themselves and what, how and when to say things.
In my view 'the accusation' by Dr.Ford was a secondary issue. I found her credible although the accusation could not be corroborated. The appalling thing to me was the way Kavanaugh responded to the (now many) accusations at his hearing. I found his rage filled self pity, whining and crying and his partisan attack on the opposition party to be alarming and along with thousands of law professors, the ACLU, and many others in the justice system and at Yale and Harvard to be indicative of a temperament not worthy of being on the SC.
I also found Kavanaugh 's penchant for obfuscating, evading, and outright not answering direct questions to be dishonest and disingenuous.
Lesson learned: The Supreme Court is compromised and will not be non partisan in it's judgments. It is now a Republican affiliate serving the interests of the Corporate Rich e.g. The Koch Brothers Incorporated.
23
@Gwen Vilen . Thank you for putting into words my exact feelings. If all of the political acting and handwringing and finger pointing could be cleared away and dutiful citizens took the time to actually examine what (definitely not a who) is behind the circus, what we would find is the oligarchy created by money. This is what we are not supposed to know. That truly, is chilling.
I felt these clips were too short to be very helpful in understanding why these women felt the way they did. Many came to totally opposite conclusions. It would be more interesting - and productive - to tease out the core beliefs why. I also wonder if any of the women who think Blasey Ford was lying have ever themselves been assaulted. It seems to me not.
5
This story really bothered me. Reading the women's comments, I never would have guessed that a woman, Dr. Blasey Ford, would have endured death threats, had to move her family out of her home, -- and then give credible, truly affecting testimony before the entire Senate about a terrifying, emotionally crippling event from her youth. It sounded like hardly anybody cared about Dr. Ford. There was far more talk about protecting sons than daughters and that seemed uncomfortably skewed. This story made me feel bad for the female victims of sexual assault.
24
@Cath
Thanks. I agree with you: the articles bothered me for the same reasons.
Also, I found it disappointing that few (if anyone did) mentioned Kavanaugh's performance---a "performance" in that he read as if from a script: his anger felt rehearsed, hardly a spontaneous outburst. Consider...
-his hyped-up anger
-conspiracy mongering (with no evidence or basis in fact) -evasive answers
-dissembling (outright lying?)
-confrontational stance to questions asked by 2 Senators.
It seems as if so many of the article's respondents found him more truthful than Dr. Blasey Ford---who had absolutely nothing to gain by coming forward.
8
Is this sampling really representative of the positions taken by the women who responded? This article makes it seem like as many or more women are pro defending Kavanaugh, not believing Ms. Ford, or seeing liberals and the rabid mob.
11
Does the split you've represented here - approximately 50/50, with more aggressive accusations leveled at Dr. Blasey Ford - proportionately represent your 40,000 responses? Whether or not they do, I feel strongly that failing to provide that information means the piece does little to inform readers.
Moreover, the decision to publish such aggressive attacks - many quoted accuse Dr. Blasey Ford of malicious, mendacious conduct - makes me feel you did not consider the impact such views might have on survivors of sexual assault.
12
I would probably give my daughter the same advice that Margaret Johnson is giving her son.
Avoid like the plague men who crave power, because they will do literally anything they want with that power.
I would advise my son not to be like those men in power, don’t be like those who crave and abuse power. Be fair and honest and decent.
9
It was really tough to read some of the opinion do in this article. The woman who said she would advise her daughter to respect the law and advise her son to watch his back, was heartbreaking. I am not sure what I’ve learned so far from the past week. Mostly I fear what we are becoming as a nation. Divided on such basic issues like a woman’s right to speak about her assault. I will say the same to my daughters as always: be vigilant, be courageous, I’ll always have your back and I’ll always believe you. But i can’t tell them things are improving for women; they took a hard step back last week. Our president feels comfortable telling the falsehood that ‘Kavanaugh was proven innocent’, and lawmakers within his party fail to call out the falsehood while he calls Ford a liar and accuses her of perpetrating a hoax. What are we becoming?
7
@J I wonder how the daughters of the women who made these comments feel?
@Rita Prangle
I agree. The NYT should follow up with their kids.
I do not understand why so many of these women are convinced that Ford lied. Why? I am not convinced that she did or didn't lie, since I wasn't in the room when the assault allegedly happened. Were they? Why are they so convinced that she lied?
7
@Aroobola My bet is that they are trying desperately to avoid their own painful past.
1
What I notice most clearly in those women who interpret this affair from the viewpoint of the republicans is the over vaunting importance of the accusations of sexual misconduct. They have fallen for the republican pseudo-logical trap. If the accusations are not absolutely objectively true, then Kavanaugh should get a pass. What the accusations facilitated was an exposure of Kavanaugh as a man. It exposed his masculine entitlement and the perversity of his choices even into college. He had a perfect opportunity to rationally refute the accusations and at the same time establish a logical "that was then and this is now" repudiation of a set of accepted behavioral rules that were at least tolerated at that time but that are not acceptable now. Instead he indulged himself in a puerile emotional rant. He should not have been confirmed. As far as jurisprudence is concerned he was qualified but we could have done much much better.
8
Here's 40,001. This just rolled the clock back to 1950. Very sad for America, Americans, and our role as a (former) leader in the world on human and civil rights.
8
The due process and presumed innocence with limited evidence from the WH is not a due process and it is a mockery of our judicial system. Incidences such these are daily events practiced in different courts all over the US as evidenced by more than 50% of death sentences handed down in some part of South turned out to be false on the subsequent discoveries.
5
It makes me want to weep to see so many women not believing Dr. Ford. Believing she was lying and being paid. You can certainly tell who watches Fox News, swallows every bit of divisive nastiness that it broadcasts, and questions nothing. This was about a man interviewing for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. And it was clear he was lying. I am so disheartened about what is happening to our beautiful country. I worry that we'll never recover from the divisiveness and hate that is so carefully being nurtured by people of ill will and being willingly taken up by people who don't think things through.
11
Does this sample represent the proportion of responses that were for or against Kavanaugh? If not, what critieria did you use to select the comments for publication? If you chose a sample intended to show the range of responses, fine, but please be transparent. I find it difficult to believe (and depressing) that this group is representative of the total population of responses.
8
My take: most of the time many of the women did other things with the TV on in the background.
There were thoughtful, intelligent comments and also signs of not paying attention like using the legal standard for guilt in a criminal trial "innocent until proven guilty", "beyond a reasonable doubt" to decide that Ford's accusation shouldn't count against Kavanaugh in his SCOTUS job interview equivalent.
The "lessons" often included Trump talking points. Ford was "playing the victim", Kavanaugh was the victim and Trump talking points about liberals. Stuff easy to remember, no analysis. Multi tasking in action.
7
I was dismayed at how uninformed many of the women responding to your survey seemed to be, though it shouldn't be surprising as many Americans have little knowledge of the workings and history of our political system. But they were right to expect that some proof and facts would be uncovered by the committee. Unlucky us - games and hysterics were in abundance instead. So the call for an FBI investigation was the only way to get at some proof. But bad faith made that into a farce.
The superficial investigation by the FBI into Dr. Ford's allegations and Judge Kavanaugh's behavior was cynical and a big disservice to our country. There should be no doubt about a candidate for SC Judge's suitability and a claim by a victim should be investigated and witnesses' corroboration obtained. Truth is the goal.
Neither of those things happened and so a clumsy political farce ended up depriving both Kavanaugh and Ford of a fair resolution and damaged both them and their families. It also left the American citizens damaged by more of the cynicism and division that is ruining our country. We can't blame China or Russia for this - it was an inside job.
We should all examine our role as voters - have we learned the basics of government and history in order to be educated voters? Worst of all are those of our leaders whose greed for power, prestige and revenge lead then to betray the trust of the people and become hacks for big donors.
5
I agree with the other commenters that Dr. Ford also deserves due process. Trump himself has asserted that the limited extended background check "proved" that Dr. Ford was lying. It did nothing of the kind. It merely showed that the few people questioned do not remember such an event occurring, and since the two that Dr. Ford recalls being at the scene were drunk, it would not be surprising that they didn't remember. Thus, given the limited investigation, there wasn't sufficient evidence to prove that Judge Kavanaugh had committed assault, NOR was there sufficient evidence to prove that Dr. Ford was lying. The whole process was badly handled on all sides, especially by the White House, which should have done a better job of vetting Judge Kavanaugh in the first place. But for Trump and the GOP to go around now claiming that Dr. Ford and most women who report sexual assault are "proven liars" is a denial of both the actual facts and of due process for Dr. Ford and other victims of assault.
8
@Alicia Lloyd I'm curious to know, when you say this was "badly handled on all sides", what specifically do you think the Democrats might have done differently?
1
@Rita Prangle I was referring to the first phase of the hearings on the judge's background, when the Dems had serious points to make and procedural questions to insist on, but the disruptions and demonstrations in the hearing room seemed to give a circus atmosphere to the proceedings, a backdrop that wasn't helpful when Dr. Ford's serious allegations came out.
It is especially hard to hear these women undermine another woman. I can say though that their voices are weakening compared to the past. Once this was the majority, now it is only half the majority. At least now the left has it's vision clearer, the left is no longer on the wrong side of history like it was when Hill and Clinton played out. These women, with their hatred for other women- telling us sarcastically to put our consent in writing, to stop our ambitious power grabbing- As if! These are the women who history will look back at and not understand the blindness. These are like all women on the side of the aggressors, existing through all major fights for human rights, who don't believe in or were not taught these rights. Women deserve safety and no words convince us otherwise. It is an inalienable right, endowed by creation- no mere cultural norm. This isn't a real debate and should not be.
33
It’s more fascinating reading the comments than the article. People simply outraged that anyone can have a different point of view than their own.
13
@Edgar I agree. It seems some people are so focused on their own beliefs that they cease to believe others exist. I believe so many are completely out of touch with much of America, and it is likely to surprise them at the polls in November!
2
@Amber Slavery was a hit among the voters of the South once upon a time also, but it doesn't mean it was right.
I don't think too many people hold the types of views I do about how humans should govern themselves but I will say that the people who're on the side of women on this are generally in the right.
1
No, we're just outraged that our sisters treat us like liars. If we were talking about arson, would these women be worried about protection for pyromaniacal men? Or would they want to see arsonists pay for burning down buildings?
There are no "opinions" here - there is no reasonable excuse for bashing a survivor of rape, sexual assault, harassment, stalking, peeping...ANY OF IT. It is inexcusable to play God and judge or set limits on another. Perpetrators threaten, terrify, and these assaults cause PTSD, which is frequently permanent brain damage. If you haven't been through the trauma, you have no idea whatsoever what it can do. It can drive you to addiction, the destruction of education and career, and even suicide.
These are not opinions. These women who condemn survivors do untold damage - as much as men who abuse, as much as men who make nasty comments in online threads, from pulpits or daises or microphones across the country. Every event is a retraumatization. It's just evil.
4
Let's just say that I feel sorry for the daughters of the pro-Kavanaugh mothers. How many of them do you think will talk to their mother or father about any verbal abuse, harassment, and assaults they have experienced growing up or will face or in the future? Especially if Mama believes Dr. Ford lied? I can tell you the exact number: ZERO. Parent's actions and tangential words influence kids than direct lectures about what they believe.
As for Meredith Fiori, I am glad she is upfront about her views. It saves countless women and patients from ever contacting her and saves me and other healthcare professionals in Northern CA from ever referring to her.
42
@ms
Yes indeed on Meredith Fiori! It sickens me that so many of these women think Dr. Ford lied. We know Judge Kavanaugh lied under oath and they don't mention that.
CA needs to secede from the United States. Most of us don't approve of Trump, Congress, or the Supreme Court. Let the red states live in the 20th century. CA is embracing the 21st!
3
During the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings I had a houseguest I've known for years and who just turned 80. She said that she had been sexually assaulted when she was young but blamed herself because she had been drinking! And I see that in too many older women in my age range who also said in 2016 that they just weren't comfortable with the idea of a woman as president. Pakistan, Sri Lanka, India, England, Israel and Japan have had women as President or Prime Minister. Norway and New Zealand currently have women in charge. But in a country that claims to be exceptional, women aren't good enough. And if bad things happen to them it's their fault. Sad.
52
I had to stop reading. The lack of understanding concerning sexual assault and how the mind and body process trauma is disturbing. People, especially women, need to learn how we deal with life altering events. Make no mistake men are assaulted also and experience the same shame, self blame and delayed reactions. The Catholic Church atrocities against young boys and girls is a clear example of the complexities of sex abuse.
37
I am a man and I love women and want all the best for them. I am a feminist and support full equality.
But, once feminists start using word "patriarchy", they immediately lose respect with a great deal of men including myself.
Why? The word is loaded. In us, it conjures up this image that the feminist who said "patriarchy" thinks we all have a secret convention each year to see who we can oppress women in the future.
We are not evil.
The reality is that our world has mostly male-dominated societies as a simple result of evolution. Systems scientists call this "emergent behavior" - that the system exhibits a collective behavior even though there is no directive to do so. A good example is a flock of birds. The birds don't go around and plan how they fly. Instead, each bird simply does what it is evolved to do and the result is that birds flock when flying in large groups.
Human societies are the same way. The physical differences between men and women AND the environmental conditions that they face, lead societies to be what they evolve to be. Often, that leads to male-dominated societies.
To help understand what I wrote, people should consider reading both Jared Diamond's Pulitzer Prize-winning non-fiction book "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" and the very noteworthy "feminist revenge/male dystopia" book "The Power" by Naomi Alderman in which "patriarchy" is replaced by "matriarchy" because women evolve to become more powerful than men.
4
@VJR Speaking of patriarchy in the context of women's lives is not like speaking of visible entities such as the ku klux clan or men-only groups or restricted private clubs. It refers to the ethos of male superiority and cultural entitlements which permeates many societies and cultures - including the USA - through laws, policies, attitudes and acts of discrimination and disrespect against women. Not all men are members of the KKK and not all men disenfranchise women from full participation in any area of life that women choose. Nevertheless, there are myriad stories of women who have experienced, endured, or fought against what is no less then a sometimes subtle, but more often in-your-face obvious, tyranny of men who raise and buttress barriers against women who want to peacefully exercise authority in shaping their own lives. Books alone cannot provide the education and understanding that captures the effect of patriarchy on individual women; that "ah-ha" moment comes with repeated exposure to the private stories of the women around you and those outside of your usual social circles.
The entrenched system precludes asking men nicely, please. Women are not weak and they call the entrenched system what it is: a patriarchy.
5
@VJR
"But, once feminists start using word "patriarchy", they immediately lose respect with a great deal of men including myself."
1. Nobody is begging you for your respect. Feminism is about self-empowerment, not about seeking the approval of men.
2. The Biblical prescription for how women should live takes shape during the Iron Age with Abraham, who is called a "patriarch." Abraham's people obeyed a self-consciously and intentional system of patriarchy -- rule by patriarchs -- that today's conservative Christians see as a model for how we should all live.
3. Culture is a kind of loose gigantic conspiracy. Look at the custom in business culture of men wearing ties. Most men hate ties, I have been told by my husband. But our culture continues to conspire to make men wear them.
4. A culture that doubts women can report crimes against them truthfully and asserts control over a woman's body is a patriarchal culture.
Our whole culture is not patriarchy. But the portion that defines morality according to the standards followed by Biblical patriarchs is patriarchal. By choice and by definition.
12
Xenophobia is also an evolved social construct. Yet it’s still not a good thing. There are many ‘evolved’ parts of society tgat are bad. We’re not slaves to our past: we possess the power to write our own futures in a morally and ethically correct fashion. Many people used your argument to justify slavery. Think on that.
1
The callousness evidenced in so many of these is frankly chilling.
False accusations are as rare/ rarer than false claims of any other crime- such as robbery. Although this was a hearing & not a criminal trial-- in reality the law allows for a victim's testimony to be the primary evidence for conviction. The idea that there must be a witness to sexual assault is as absurd as requiring a witness to robbery. It's trying to have it both ways-- to demand the standards of a courtroom yet deny the application of its thorough procedures. If due process is the standard, where was it for Dr. Ford? Cannot demand it to protect him and then not finish the process to protect her. (and please do not pretend that an investigation that did not start with agents interviewing the principles was thorough.)
Putting aside that obvious contradiction of principles; it's the simple hard science truth regarding memory that simply does not allow for the option that Dr. Ford is misremembering her assailant, someone known to her and not a stranger.
You would have to believe that she was lying outright as a Democratic operative, somehow presciently dropping clues in her personal life long before Kavanaugh was even selected by the Federalist Society on a shortlist for Trump.
To think men needing protection from false women? That's the true looking at this through a "gender" lens; a distortion required to avoid the obvious: protecting young men is best accomplished by also protecting young women.
67
@Orpheus, that is horrible this happened to you. The survivor, Dr. Ford didn't do this to extort money or settle a grudge. She came forward to stop a person of dishonor getting the nomination.
Also, can we change the word story to experience? We changed victim to survivor.
@Orpheus
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/27/india-abuse-women-...
False accusations are not the problem in India. Good grief.
1
@Orpheus
Too many evil women out there? History shows us, again and again, the majority of the world's evil is perpetrated by men: war, genocide, slavery, rape, corruption, etc. Some women enable said evil but the majority merely suffer under it.
1
There are so many lessons in this terrible drama it's hard to know which few to pick. It made clear -- it actually always was -- that nobody wants to believe a woman's story of sexual assault if the male is known to her, not even other women, and women are often the harshest critics of the victim for reasons I don't understand. Denial of their own vulnerability? I have never experienced sexual assault but I have been bullied (by other women) in the workplace, and the dynamics seem pretty much the same. I can understand what sexual assault does to a woman's self-esteem, confidence and sense of safety in the world. My bullying experience left those same scars. I tried to "deal with it" in every way I could, to no avail. I now believe I would have been better off leaving the job at the first sign of the bullying, before the wounds got so many and so deep. The bottom line in both sexual assault and bullying should be, "Take care of yourself." That can mean different things to different women, but it should at least mean you do not accept blame or shame for what others do to you. You may not get justice, and probably won't, but make sure you get stronger.
18
@abigail49 I agree that denial of their own vulnerability is a big reason some women are so critical of Dr. Ford.
3
I wonder how many of the women who support Kavanaugh have ever been assaulted and, if so, did they immediately report it. It would seem that that would be a factor .
12
@Howard Klein I can’t speak for everyone else, but I reported within 24 hours of my assault. I understand that not everyone was brought up in a household like mine, where it was spoken about from a young age about what to do in the event of an assault, and that is extremely unfortunate.
I do support Kavanaugh though, as I did not find Dr. Ford credible.
3
It appeared a lot of the Pro-K women's lesson was limited to "don't lie if you are a woman" or "innocent until proven guilty", or "mobs are immature and bad". I would hazard a guess that 100% of Americans believe these things. I would not call it a lesson, more of just a hardening to support an already existing viewpoint.
My lesson was not one, but 2 college-educated women leveled these charges and both times they were around binge drinking alcohol episodes.
Assuming Judge K drinks very little now, it would explain his binary thinking and absolutism, as well as his outburst when asked to explain himself. This black/white, either/or, with us /against us thinking is a common trait of untreated alcoholics. Just think back to George W Bush, another cold turkey non-treated problem drinker who would never admit his alcoholism. Alcoholics don't do well in gray areas, it's why they drink. Not a good look for a Judge. White knuckling it through life usually does not work long term.
36
I believe that a lot of women who support Kavenaugh with no doubt have a form of Stockholm syndrome. When any person, man or woman feels powerless, they will sometimes identify with and support their oppressors in order to feel safe. It has happened throughout human history.
24
@Sandii think that’s a very good pt.
1
I am admittedly one of the unpopular voices who does not believe Dr. Ford.
20 years ago, right before my 17th birthday, I was at a party much like she described where I was held down by two people as I was raped by a third. Even with alcohol, I can tell you every last detail. I also reported my attack, went through the rape exams and was able to provide evidence needed to prosecute and convict all parties involved.
I understand the trauma of this type of event, but even despite going onto obtain my degree in psychology, I was not able to believe her. Too many inconsistencies.
One of the biggest reasons I do not believe her is the timing. As someone who has been attacked you can bet I have kept track of where all of my attackers have ended up through the years, so where was she when he was going through confirmation for the Appeals Court? Where was she when Trump released his list of possible contenders and she found him to be on it?
Also, even 20 years later, and knowing I had all the proof I needed and they were sent to jail for it, the thought of testifying to a group like that would have had me ill. There is no way I could have laughed and smiled my way through it. I would have done anything to allow the senators and FBI to investigate privately and not in a televised hearing. They offered to send someone to her location. I don’t believe someone truly traumatized by this event would choose to recount it on national tv instead.
8
@Amber, so because she did things differently than you, you don't believe her? Different people process and respond to trauma very differently.
Reporting to law enforcement should never be the standard for credibility. I have worked with survivors for 25 years and the majority do not report for many reasons, one being the fear of being disbelieved.
11
I'm sorry you experienced such trauma. Nevertheless, other victims who experienced similar trauma found her credible. And she did keep track of him over the years. She, like so many other victims, simply did not wish to come forward. She felt the conflict between guarding her privacy and making a public statement about someone whose behavior suggested he might be unfit for such a prominent position. She didn't want to testify to a group and she didn't want to testify on television. She showed great courage in doing so. She was clearly nervous, and her occasional smile or laugh didn't change that.
6
@Amber, thanks for your brave testimony. I totally agree with you. My own experience wasn’t nearly as horrific as yours was, but 50 years later I don’t just remember the house where it happened, I KNOW the house where it happened and could show it to you today. I have a degree in psychology as does Dr. Ford, and for all her talk about her hippocampus, there is such a thing as IMPLANTED MEMORY, and it is very telling that Ford testified that she “didn’t know it was an attempted rape until her therapist told her it was”.
The fact that absolutely NO ONE CORROBORATED HER TESTIMONY, not even her best friend Leland, makes me too skeptical of Dr Ford to get past all her inconsistencies. Leland emphasized not once, but twice, that she did not know Kavanaugh, had never met him, and had never been to a party where he was present, whether with or without Dr Ford. Not one single witness provided by Ford backed her up. The FBI grilled Mark Judge for 3 hours and came up with zero. And Judge was supposed to be an eyewitness.
Ford may not have had to prove her case beyond a reasonable doubt, but she certainly needed to provide some evidence, as opposed to NO evidence. The woman from Yale also had zero evidence and no eye witnesses. All she provided was hearsay. No one, not even women, should be allowed to destroy another person based only on an accusation and hearsay. I believe Kavanaugh.
It seems like the majority of the comments were deliberately slanted against Dr. Ford. The idea seems to be "poor boys, they might need to be careful." I am also the mother of sons who believe Dr. Ford was telling the truth.
These women clearly identify with the idea that Dr. Ford, under oath was not to be believed but Kavanaugh, under oath was.
Sadly, many of these women are the exact reason more women don't report abuse of any kind. I hope it never happens to them or their daughters. They might feel very differently.
55
Wow. Out of 40,000 responses these are the ones you chose? I see a lot of white women, a lot of internalized misogyny, and a lot of ignorance about sexual assault, trauma, and the multiple reasons that women don’t, and are afraid to, report. As Dr. Ford herself said, she is nobody’s pawn - I believe her, as I believed everything else she so painfully revealed to us. I thank her for her courage. White women in this country have a lot of work to do. So many of us are unwilling to see the reality of of the racism and hatred for women that rules the old white men who have a stranglehold on power right now. We may be prying it out of their cold, dead hands.
92
As a result of the Kavanaugh hearings it's pretty clear what we need to tell our children, both girls and boys. They need to know that if anything horrible happens to them they can come to us and we will suspend judgment until their immediate needs are met, at least. We will always be there for them.
We expect them to treat others decently at all times. We need to convince them that they will be held responsible for their actions, so they need to stay in a condition that will let them act in their own, and others', best interests. They also will be held accountable for mistakes and will need to own up to them.
And no one is entitled to any privileges just by dint of who they are. All your life they should expect to work for what they get.
12
This is all right out of The Handmaid’s Tale. The women who support Kavenaugh will soon find themselves in the position of Serena - a woman who fought to give men all the power and somehow believed she would be the exception and given her own position of power. She believed that until she was beaten because she read a book and maimed for speaking up.
Women who support Trump/Kavenaugh are actively working toward their own demise.
42
I wonder how Susan Collins felt today after Trump called Professor Ford’s testimony a “fabrication” and “hoax,” and he called her evil to boot. Maybe the Senator is regretting hopping onto the Trump train.
If these responses are at all indicative of the proportion of female opinions in this country that fault Dr. Ford then we really are lost. It’s as though we’ve torn open this collective wound but many of us can’t allow ourselves to feel it. I’m so saddened to hear women, after centuries of repression, side against their own with the attitudes of the culture that sees them as less than.
41
I'm baffled. It's like the gold dress/blue dress phenomenon. Or whether we think cilantro tastes good v. soapy. What is going on in America? How is it are we seeing things so completely differently?
16
@Jacquelyn Chappel At least for cilantro, it partially comes down to genetics.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/09/14/161057954/love-to-hate-c...
the problem of course is that responders are comparing a job interview with a criminal trial. Fortunately the rules are entirely different. The Kavanaugh hearings were not a trial and rules of evidence did not apply, nor should they.
No serious manager would have hired Kavanaugh based not on accusations but his responses to questions. Really. a Clinton conspiracy? So emotional he was brought to tears? Really.? And he's a judge, really? The average manager would have questioned his fitness for the job he had, much less a promotion!
45
I'm Canadian. Over the last week, hearing so many Americans dismiss sexual assault as just something boys do, and watching them mock people who've been assaulted, has given me one more reason to pause before deciding to visit.
I used to travel to US often for events, skiing or camping, but between the muslim bans, family separations, and how angry I am at the way our closest ally treated us during the NAFTA talks, I've been staying home. This only confirms that I won't be crossing the border anytime soon.
43
@LW-Understand and you have a lot of company as it looks like our tourism is way down.
7
I found some of these comments surprising. If I had to guess, and I think my intuition about my fellow human beings of both genders is pretty good, I'd say there is some denial going on here. I suspect women who have not been sexually assaulted, and men who have not committed assaults, tend to underestimate their frequency. I also suspect women who have been assaulted, and men who have committed assaults, make more accurate estimates.
The denial part comes in when women and men don't want to imagine they might be involved in an sexual assault either as a victim or a perpetrator (and especially in prisons, men are victims). It's too easy to let yourself believe that these things don't happen that often, and therefore reports about them must be exaggerated.
As for judging Judge Kavanaugh, although I believe Dr. Ford and admire her bravery, that's not the point. Her testimony created a test of character for Kavanaugh in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I agree with former Supreme Count Justice John Paul Stevens and about 2,400 law professors. Kavanaugh failed the test, and that is solely his responsibility.
70
@Michael Barnes Like you I was surprised by many of the responses. What strikes me is that the republicans successfully defined the rules in their own perverse mold and people fell for it. First there is the idea that if the accusations are not absolutely true then BK should be summarily confirmed. Second is the silly idea that poor little BK was so traumatized by the mean girl that he should not have to suffer further and again be summarily confirmed. I see no useful logic in either of these postulates. Like you, I see the whole affair as a test, a test of the willingness of the white male powers that be to eschew the insane logic that has been continually used by white males to make the accused the victim and the accuser the abuser. It could have gone so differently but BK and his handlers were not willing to give and inch and in doing so reaffirmed all the ill founded devices that have been used against women who have legitimate claims of sexual misconduct. Rather unexpectedly it was also a test of BK's temperament, a test that he failed miserably.
3
Trump and other Republicans are now using the accusations of women against Kavanaugh to gain political advantage by claiming that any decent man can have his career derailed and his life wrecked by a supposed false accusation. The mischief-maker-in-chief wants us to believe -- incorrectly -- that oh so many women make false accusations against good men. By treating this as a women vs men issue we miss the real point that this is a good man vs sexist man issue. There are many decent men who also have been alarmed by the charges against Kavanaugh and the way the women accusers were treated. After all, men have wives and daughters and mothers and sisters, female relatives and friends and good men want these women to be believed when they assert that they were abused. Just as women put their arms around their hurt sisters, so too do good men. Our fight is not against men but against patriarchal and male supremacist attitudes among both men and women. We need and invite men to join in because we can't win without their voices. Remember, decent white men and women were a major force in the abolitionist movement. White Northerners were among the Freedom Riders fighting for desegregation in the 1950s and 1960s . This is a long term cultural battle and men coming forward, believing women, expressing empathy with their hurt and adding their voices in protest is essential to model the change we seek.
47
@reju lavtok,
Trevor Noah did a great piece on this the other day on the Daily Show. He says Trump's most powerful tool is wielding "victimhood" (in this case with Kavanaugh, "male victimhood) and Noah does a masterful job of analyzing this and exposing it for the sham that it is (but a powerful sham, as evidenced by the number of women falling for it and disparaging Dr Blasey Ford). It was so good to have his take on this - an insightful decent man not only stepping up but so brilliantly laying it all out.
You can find it here. It's well worth a watch if you haven't seen it already:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trevor-noah-trumps-most-powerful-to...
5
Why was that in an article where there were equal numbers of Left-leaning and Right-leaning opinions, I came away with an impression that it was weighted heavily to the Right until I went back and *counted*?
Could it be that the Right leaning opinions were so much more vitriolic and disrespectful?
Say it isn't so!
19
@Dejah I too felt the same. In my intro to psych class (as a liberal arts major), we did this controlled experiment to show that negative opinions are more reinforcing than positive ones. I suspect a phenomenon like that is in effect.
1
This is about power. Pure and simple. Who has and who doesn’t have it regardless of the circumstance: a high school party or a Supreme Court nomination hearing. If you cannot tell:
Men are winning, as they always have.
I’m an optimist though. Winning streaks only last so long. Then it will be “others” that have the power. How will we use it?
18
As a woman who was sexually traumatized and subsequently saw the matter silenced as a child, I’ve taken a long time to heal, and don’t openly speak about the experience with people I don’t know closely. That said, I recognized the signs of pain and coping during Dr. Ford’s testimony, empathizing with her, and feeling immeasurable gratitude for her strength. To see the president subsequently mock her was disgusting enough- reading the dismissive statements of some of these women, turning the victimization over to men, is horrific. This is the ideal demonstration of internalized misogyny.
83
I'd like to know how many of the women in these stories, who believed kavanaugh, watched Dr. Ford testify.
To those women, and to susan collins, when more facts become known about kavanaugh's behavior, specifically information corroborating Dr. Ford and others, will you be able to change your mind about kavanaugh and support his removal from the court?
I believed Dr. Ford. Her husband, her therapist, the friends who knew of kavanaugh's behavior, that was enough for me.
I hope our gratitude to Dr. Ford will offset some what has undeservedly come her way, such as the president of our country trying to humiliate her.
22
This article brings to mind the 48 Republican senators whose vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh was never in doubt. All through this, they were sure to vote for his confirmation, no matter what. If that isn’t a raw partisan grab for power at any cost, then nothing is. The women who supposedly are aghast at doing anything for power certainly seem to accept and approve the GOP acting that way.
18
Maybe because I am not American, I did not believe any of them, and expected a more substantial investigation that, alone, could have led to clarify what had happened.
I am surprised that so many women think that men are the victims of female oppression. How is their life so different from mine that they can believe that? Do they earn as much as their husband? Have they or their friends or relatives never been the victims of sexism or assault?
I am also worried by the emphasis on 'innocent until proven guilty' understood as meaning that only cases in which hard evidence is available would be susceptible to go to court. That is currently not the case, and that is why there are judgments and juries.
21
To those who are asking for the percentages of the pro and anti-Kavanaugh letters: Remember that this is not an accurately random sample, because it consists only of those who have voluntarily reported. That always skews the sample one way or the other. It would however, be interesting to know what the percentages are. So how about publishing them?
16
What were the numbers in your 40,000 survey? How many women were in favour, how many opposed? Are your selections here representative? I am happy to have individual voices highlighted, as long as there is some analysis of these many voices. Personally, it just makes me sad that there are women who think this is about false accusations against the men in their lives. Every person should be able to stand up for themselves and not be bullied or coerced into anything they do not wish to do - at all times, in any place.
57
I'm very disturbed by the number of women who said the lesson for their daughters is to not make false allegations. What would you tell your daughter if she reported the truth and was not believed? What if the circumstances could not be proven or disproven and the other person (for the sake of argument, let's say he's a popular and respected member of the community) what if he categorically denies your daughter's story and claims she made it up for attention? Who would you believe?
103
@Amy K
I wish I could recommend your post a thousand times! As an assault survivor, I know exactly how Dr. Ford felt. This is not something one talks about like the weather, and I can say I don’t remember the day I was assaulted, but I will never forget who assaulted me!!!
4
@Paula Thank you, I agree with you 100%. Finding the right words is difficult and I never thought I would say anything about my experience in public, but it was similar to Dr. Ford's in some ways (16 + alcohol + boy = there but for the grace of God... and friends). It took me over 20 years to see it objectively for what it really was. Until just this year I felt like I was partly to blame and I felt bad that he might be punishing himself for a mistake we both made. I started trying to justify it when I was 16 and for 20+ years never questioned how naive I had been. High schoolers don't believe they're naive or too immature to handle complex situations like this, but it takes time to develop the necessary skills. I needed to look at what happened from an adult perspective before I could see that, legally, a crime was committed. It honestly shocked me to realize that. I'm not pursuing it, I have no desire to ever see him again and it seems he's capable of ruining his life without my help, but I don't think he would deserve a position of authority like on the Supreme Court either. It's not for vengeance or spite, I just don't think bad behavior/judgement should be rewarded.
Mothers and fathers: teach your sons not to bully a woman into sex, not to rape, and not to believe that when they are aroused it is the woman's job to keep them at bay. Teach your daughters to KNOW that it is not their fault if they should be the victims of sexual assault. Teach all of them to know that they are ultimately responsible for their own actions, but that might does not make right (an approach to living that seems to have been all but forgotten in our tattered land).
51
I find it difficult to believe this is a fair sampling of the opinion of women that actually saw the two testimonies.
81
@Timothy Phillips They never calimed it to be a fair sampling..they said they were selections and condensed selections, to boot.
@Timothy Phillips I saw the two testimonies and have been beyond outraged at the outcome. I submitted my feedback during this request from nyt and see nothing even remotely close to my sentiments reflected. Truly disappointed.
3
@Timothy Phillips
I doubt most of them watched the entire testimony, if any.
The article shows that readers choose to believe either Dr. Ford or Judge Kavanaugh but does not tell us the proportions of each camp and the undecided. That is critical information. It is important to promote open and frank debate but not enough (and also inaccurate) to just display comments from both sides with no idea of the weight of each opinion. Just as it would be deceiving to have two “experts” discussing climate change - implying equipoise- without making it clear that the vast majority of scientists recognize it as fact, the reader of this article should be told the majority opinion and it’s proportion. Then we can understand the nature of the debate beyond just the polar viewpoints.
31
@Daniel KollekThe object of the article isn't polling numbers.
Climate is numbers.
Politics is feelings and tribes. If numbers mattered Trump would be a joke.
This article performed admirably because it conveyed the truth of salient American voters.
1
@Daniel Kollek here you go:
from a NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Wednesday.
In choosing who is telling the truth, 45 percent said Ford is, up from 32 percent ahead of her Sept. 27 testimony. A third (33 percent) said Kavanaugh is the one telling the truth, up slightly from 26 percent before he testified but not as much of a rise as for Ford.
1
After a discussion, my students decided that this has hurt the credibility of each woman who has been assaulted, and that the guys recognize that their behavior will be viewed with an assumption of guilt. My union steward said allowing that conclusion proved that I was a rapist, but she already knows I'm a pedophile because I'm a male teacher.
3
Really? No one found Dr. Ford credible? Not one person found fault with Kavanaugh? His ridiculous explanations for Renate Alumnus, boofing, etc., were accepted by your students at face value? His lying didn’t bother them or damage his credibility in their eyes? God help us.
2
@Patriot Teenagers don't have a religious devotion to political parties. They looked at what they were being told to believe, and thought through the consequences. They certainly found the accusation plausible, but also saw that hate and fear drove the hysteria. Hence the young ladies concluding that the handling of the accusation has hurt their credibility if they get assaulted.
Men almost always stand up for other men. Women often let each other down, especially in favor of a man. It blows my mind. Women, just because most of you sleep with men doesn't mean you have to submit to them.
62
@Cary Fleisher You hit the nail on the head!
1
@Cary Fleisher I think it's when they give birth to males that a lot of them become protective of males beyond all reason.
3
I'm wondering if most of the 40,000 saw this as partisan as the ones the NYT choose to post. I tire of the bucketing of people as liberals or conservatives like they are dirty words. Divided we will fall.
16
@Lori
too late. we fell long ago to Roger Ailes, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Richard Nixon and the politics of resentment and dissatisfaction and blame the other guy. I swear that the phrase "why should I" is the real American motto.
Tis really sad but I fear that climate change will overtake it all anyway. And this will all become a moot point!!!!
@Lori
Please vote out Senator Susan Collins in 2020!
To the lady who says a young black man would never have gotten away with what Kavanaugh got away with, may I present: Clarence. Thomas.
The patriarchy is color blind.
21
@S K Statistically speaking, Patriarchy would kill Clarence if he had the temerity to wear a hoody in a nice neighborhood.
Sorry, clarence thomas is only one. Most likely the only one. Hundreds or thousands have been murdered. Thousands are sent to prisons or simply got their lives disrupted by simple allegations. Imagine the verdict when there is reasonable proof.
@S K from my understanding she was referring to his excess of drinking and bad behavior as a young man (not specifically to sexually assaulting Dr Ford).
Wow, surprised with some of these comments...especially the Palo Alto psychotherapist (whatever that means)... one would hope a pychologically minded individual would have been able to see how the deck was being stacked from the beginning.
85
@Sue
She may be a colleague of Dr. Bailey Ford (who, if I remember well also taught at Palo Alto Univ. (never heard of it). Maybe the enmity proceeds from academic enmity.
6
@Sue Apparently she had extremely limited experience with alcoholic personalities.
2
It’s part of Stanford. You’ve heard of that, right?
Absolutely wonderful type of column. Real people writing....instead of experts speaking for them.
8
It's a man's world.
24
Meredith Fiori, a college educated woman in America equates Brett Kavanaugh’s senate hearing with a “public lynching.” Ms. Fiori, if you are reading this, please educate yourself. Perhaps start with google. Understand, in all it’s grisly horror, the history of lynching in the US. And maybe next time, you won’t speak with such appalling ignorance.
152
Everyone needs to read Victoria Church’s comment again.
The next time I have a job interview I’ll try crying, whining, and repeating “I like beer” a dozen times.
66
@JM Exactly. During my next review for a raise, I'll start screaming at my supervisor, crying, become defensive, become offensive and abusive, and saying how unfair they are for even questioning me and should just give it to me. I'll come back and let you know how much I received or if they called the cops and had me escorted out!
2
I would love to sit down with the women who are on Kavanaugh's side and have a discussion. Where did you get your information on him? Why would you only tell your son to beware of women making false statements? Why wouldn't you tell him first to not drink til your drunk because you don't know what you will do. Why wouldn't you tell your son to respect a girl saying "no"? Why don't you sit down with other women who have been assaulted and ask them why they didn't report the incident right way? Do you believe all the grown men sexually assaulted by Catholic priests? Why or why not? Do you know that a decision made in the past by the Supreme Court can be overturned despite what is said when the person is campaigning for a position? Just for starters.
99
At least we can put some faces to the white women who have been upholding the patriarchy.
111
So many women here got nothing from what happened except "protect your sons; teach your daughters to be decent and truthful." For me, this should be exactly reversed, though of course all should be decent and truthful--and thereby protect each other.
I have a news flash for these women--Dr. Ford is decent and truthful. See what happened to her?
I am so sad they show no feeling for Dr Ford. She is rarely even mentioned, and has carried this all her life. She told her therapist in 2012, and her husband before they married.
It is as if they show no feeling for themselves.
But the writers know about harassment, and speak privately about it. We ALL have spoken about it, and every woman I have ever known, from college on up to today as I turn 70, has had some sort of harassment from men, somewhere in their lives.
My mother was 19 at a New Year's Eve party and given many drinks. When she was drunk, someone raped her. She told her parents, who tried to help. Then she was pregnant--my grandfather's best friend was a doctor. She had an abortion; a chance to start again. It was 1936.
In 1975 she told me, to apologize; her fault I had no siblings; too much scar tissue. She had 3 miscarriages--guilt all that time. I told her that nothing was her fault; no need need to apologize for anything.
The way to "protect your sons" is to teach them to be decent and truthful, and to "teach your daughters to be decent and truthful" is to listen to them, and believe them.
96
Pro Kavanaugh women sound like short sighted, ignorant juveniles. Kavanaugh lied, his record hidden, and his partisan nature on display. We all lose - these women just don’t know it yet.
65
@Deirdre
Go back before final day of hearings, to the first day. Look at the snarky look on Kavanaugh's face when he turned his back on a Sandy Hook father. Why didn't more people pay attention to that large clue about his sense of humanity?
2
The Republican women who did not believe Ford spoke about the left's supposed scheming to acquire power, a telling revelation. These women fear that they and their families are losing status and power to minorities, supposedly "favored" by the left. What a pathetic commentary. As if Dr. Ford decided to make this up, or forgot who tried to rape her. Please.
71
@Arthur Larkin-They seem like they are swallowing Fox (Un)News--hook, line, and stinker.
4
@Arthur Larkin They don't want to comment on Merrick Garland not getting a hearing or vote because the R's wanted to grab power. Their reasoning is bias and laughable. They look stupid turning on another woman in that fashion.
1
"Due process has protected all Americans for decades — the days of being publicly lynched for unsubstantiated claims or assaults are over! Thank God." Sorry, when was this a problem for rich white men? Oh right, that was never.
You don't get to win and be the victim at the same time, Republicans.
70
Notable by its absence is any reference to these responses being representative of the 40,000 women who replied. I think it's worth your readers' time to know how many women actually wrote to defend Kavanaugh, who, let me remind you, remains quite unpopular, especially among women.
Did you deliberately handpick an unrepresentative number of responses to provide your typically unhelpful idea of 'balance?'
As a side comment, I am also outright shocked that not a single one of these comments involves a woman talking about her own assault. A major, major aspect of the conversation last week was the triggering element of the hearings: rape survivors nationwide watched in horror as a woman was denigrated and disbelieved, and as a bitter, immature man was praised despite his obvious and unnecessary lies, and they were reminded of what happened to them. Are you implying no one wrote to share their story along these lines? Really?
119
I'm having a hard time understanding how so many people can latch onto portraying men as the aggrieved ones here. It's like there's a complete lack of critical thinking on their part. Did they miss the part where trump said Dr. Ford was a credible witness (before he flip-flopped and mocked her at a rally)? No wonder why sexual harassment and assault are so pervasive and rarely reported. Who would want to subject themselves to this kind of jeering? I'm so sick of these rightwing partisans victim blaming.
106
@nwheels
He may have flipflopped on Dr. Ford due to her ex boyfriend’s letter of 7 days ago. Read it online. It made me flipflop on valuing her word. Read it online easily. Now I think the overlarge glasses were calculated.
3
@william f bannon
It's funny how the republicans in the committee jumped on a letter whose assertions fit their need, while ignoring 20+ witness statements from people who attested to Kavanaugh's heavy drinking, aggressive behavior among other unsavory things. The person who Dr. Ford allegedly coached was a former F.B.I. agent who denied the assertion about the polygraph coaching. And how about any corroborating witnesses as to the veracity of the former boyfriend's statement? Why does his statement stand as proof on its own merit, and not hers?
Talk about cherry-picking your intel.
I believe Dr. Ford. She had no motivation to come forward and upend her life other than to speak the truth. She had told others, who were willing to testisfy, about the incident years before Kavanaugh was even nominated. And she had written her original letter and delivered it to Congresswoman Anna Eshoo's office when Kavanaugh made the shortlist, before he was chosen.
1
@william f bannon
Dr. Ford's ex-boyfriend has been diagnosed as manic depressive, was fired from his tv station for unhinged behavior, and has demonstrated his animus toward Ford. He is hardly an unbiased or credible witness.
You never forget what happened to you. You may never have told anyone and you may never be able to put a exact date on it but you never forget. It haunts you your entire life.
As far as boys will be boys, with that attitude I hope those people never have daughters or sons.
42
The women I know all believe in due process, the presumption of innocence, and the need for evidence, any evidence, when accusing someone of a crime 36 years after the fact. That is why Brett Kavanaugh took his seat on the Supreme Court of the United States today and Ms. Ford has gone back to wherever she came from. That is why the President delivered an apology on national TV to the Judge and his family for the democrats heinous conduct and proclaimed him innocent in front of millions of Americans. Lets all have a beer with Brett. (I should trademark that.) Winning feels good.
3
There were 4 issues, the accusations by Dr. Ford, his dishonesty, his partisanship, and his lack of self-control. I cannot imagine Dr. Ford coming forward if it were not true, still, there was no proof. But Kavanaugh did not just deny the acquisition, he seems to have made a fiction of his youth that many eye-witnesses contradicted. He lied in his defense. Kavanaugh's partisanship during his career, 5 years in the Bush White House, working with the special counsel Ken Starr to bring about the impeachment of Clinton, and his partisanship at his last testimony, should be enough to disqualify him. Probably now there are lawyers consulting with the Democratic party on how to impeach Trump, none of them should ever be nominated for the Supreme Court. Add to that Kavanaugh’s inability to control his anger. Trump, maybe you, will say he had a right to be angry. We expect our police to have self-control, we expect our military in harm’s way to have self-control, we expect our teachers to have self-control, why do we tolerate lack of self-control and lack of self-discipline in a Supreme Court judge?
15
@Steve,
This was not a trial, it was a job interview at which Brett Kavanaugh behaved poorly. He could have returned to his highly-respected DC circuit court position, with his colleague Merrick Garland. But Dr. Ford still is unsafe to return to her home. (It’s in California “wherever that is.’)
Had the FBI done a thorough investigation, they might have spoken with both the accuser and accused so the country would get at some facts, but what with the elections coming right up and the Supreme Court starting sessions, Republicans couldn’t afford the risk.
8
The thing is Steve, you really don't KNOW that he is innocent. You have decided to believe him and not her. She had little to gain and a lot to lose by telling her story. He had a seat on the Supreme Court to gain. Since he has been groomed since at least the Bush administration for this job, he had a lot to lose.
1
Some of the most depressing responses I've ever read, and reflective of the patent acceptance of misogyny and the patriarchy in this country. You wonder how 53% of white women voted for Trump, against the first female nominee ever, and this is it. Wow.
114
The one good thing to come out of this whole sad debacle is that now we can see more clearly just how deeply rooted sexism is in our society. No wonder we've never had a woman president. If we want to make sexual harassment and assault rare rather than ubiquitous in this country, we have our work cut out for us.
75
It really scares me that many women are worried about keeping their sons safe. Of course we want all children to be safe!! But (white) men in this country are not victims. Statistically, it is our daughters we should be worried about. AND if we want to keep all our children safe, we teach them about CONSENT. Period. We shouldn't teach sons to 'get it in writing' or 'look over their shoulder' at women, assuming that potential partners are scheming and conniving and power hungry. These strategies for male safety boil down to misogyny plain and simple, which apparently many of these commenters have internalized. I'm so so so sad. Trumps war against feminism is apparently winning over the small minded.
91
To paraphrase Rebecca Traister, “stop trying to convince white women (or a good 52% of them) not to be Phyllis Schlafly; they are never going to stop wanting to be Phyllis Schlafly.” As a white woman, I’m disgusted.
63
I feel very sad for the daughters of mothers who are telling them, "Don't falsely accuse a man." If any of them are assaulted - and statistically, some certainly will be - they'll hesitate to tell their mothers. That's so sad, not to be able to go to your mother for comfort.
I find it truly appalling anyone would say that to a daughter. I mean, how have you raised these girls? Why WOULD they falsely accuse anyone of anything? Have you caught them accusing people of false things previously? If not, why in the world would you even suggest such a thing?
All you've done is tell your daughters no one will believe them if they're raped.
I have never felt the need to tell my children not to falsely accuse people of things. It goes without saying. I assume that having raised them with good values there is no particular reason they would ever falsely accuse anyone of anything.
This is misogyny at work: INHERENTLY not believing women. For no reason, just not believing them, I guess because supposedly women are pretty evil and will do this sort of thing if you don't watch them.
And then telling their sons to watch out because women will accuse them of things? These mothers should be ashamed.
127
Wow. Reading many of these pro-Kavanaugh women's comments just makes me more depressed about the state of our union. When will women stop being their own worst enemies? When will they realize they get in the way of their own progress? When will they see that they are continually being held down (literlaly and figuratively) by the 1950s-minded white male dominated society and its leaders and stand up and support each other. It brings me back to the old "I just don't like her" response to why they wouldn't vote for Hillary and instead chose a buffoon who literally admitted he assaults women. I just don't get it.
100
Its amazing to see just how far we’ve come in the last 25 years when you compare how left leaning women treated Bill Clinton’s numerous credible accusers vs how they rallied behind Dr. Blasey Ford.
5
@Midwest Josh WRT Lewinsky, I recall the news and the Internet/USENET forums at the time and the fledgling Web. There was less partisanship: I heard from a fair number of Republicans who felt that his affair was between him and his wife. I heard from a lot of Democrasts who felt his behaviour demeaned the office of the president. This is pretty binary.
1
@Midwest Josh clearly not a meaningful comparison. Not that it was right 25 years ago, but yes times do change for everybody including left leaning women. Had you heard of the MeToo movement 25 years ago ?
You could make this an issue if left leaning women had given a pass to Al Franken.
@Mathieu Holl - of course it’s meaningful. It shows how political leanings influence behavior and attitude. Mitt Romney got ripped for his “binders of women” comment when every HR dept on the planet just uses an Excel filter when they want to look at female candidates exclusively.
Woman can be their own worst enemies. I guess it mostly comes down to credibility and who's side you were on before the hearings even took place. Dr. Ford was as believable to me as anyone in 'the hot seat.' The judicial candidate's behavior wasn't judicial, not even close. I always thought lady justice wore a blindfold for a semblance of fairness. I know now it's to avoid staring at the hypocrisy and shameless acts of selfish people and politicians. If ever the concept of justice was warped into 'just us,' your country showed it last week.
32
MAGA really means standing up to the LEFT.
1
Unless i miscounted, not one of the women who supported Kavanaugh said they would teach their sons to keep their hands to themselves! Yet they all said women shouldn't lie and that they would tell their sons to watch their backs. How telling!!
76
I am always surprised when women say they vote Republican....actually shocked......seriously I wonder why they do? To vote against your own best interests seems bizarre to my rational mind.
52
@ Sandra G
Not really surprising. The most reactionary elements in many societies are the servants of the rich. Next come those people who believe that their servitude will make them rich, or at least secure. These descriptors can be readily applied to many white middle-class people, including women. Especially women who have been acculturated to believe they have little value on their own.
10
These comments make me sad. That there are people (women!) who think Dr Ford was motivated by power or money shows how distorted people’s opinions are based on their information sources. The fact that they are commenting in the New York Times is perplexing. If they are Times readers where are they getting their talking points from?
59
The women on the right we're essentially sexually assaulted by this whole affair and its outcome and they don't even realize it. In their Heart Of Hearts they know what Miss Ford said was true and yet they are incapable of admitting it. How very very sad.
How do they answer the question, what if Miss Ford said is true. What possible basis can they have to assume Kavanaugh is telling the truth but miss Ford is lying when everything about Kavanaugh's behaviour at the time tells us what she said is true.
18
I responded to these questions from the NYT. I believed Dr Ford. I was surprised the Times posted comments from so many women didn’t believe Dr. Ford. What was the breakdown of the commenters? I’m just curious.
74
A friend of mine said her family was listening to the news when this was going on.. Her husband told their daughter--around 10--that he never had sex with any girl in high school. It was not a required part of being a male. He went on to tell said daughter she should come to him if anything l happened to her. A simple and forceful statement that would be very meaningful for any daughter. At least this horrible stuff is getting the message across to girls--no one ever warned me. back in the fifties.
84
I added my thoughts to this article, I must admit , mine were short and I hoped to the point. I am amazed so many women disputed Dr Fords’ testimony. Really? As I said in my comment, why would she agree to come before the committee and relive the event? Revenge? Payback after more than 30 years? She made a admirable career in California, so why? Maybe because she knew the arrogant, boorish teenager that Kavanagh was to her was hiding behind his Yale buds and judicial robes. His performance after her testimony certainly proved him to be an entitled brat. As for those women with sons; if you taught him from the start you don’t have to worry about him getting caught in some compromising situations, I have 3 adult sons, I know . I’ll admit some situations are beyond their control, but really? Talk about self loaving females.
260
@Mary Nagle
I wonder if you read the letter from Dr. Ford’s ex boyfriend that came into the media about seven days ago. I think it even swayed Flake and Collins. And if pursued successfully by Grassley as to verification, Dr. Ford was indictable for several perjuries. Read it online easily.
2
I’ll spare all of you from googling boyfriends letter. It accuses Dr. Ford of: helping friend prepare for polygraph test, living in small apartment without fear, having no fear of flying.
It is is the classic nitpick attack: can’t argue you main points, so I’ll nitpick on insubstantial details.
1
@Aleks Totic And Ford's friend who her ex said was helped by Ford completely, vehemently denied such help. So that was a complete refutal. I did read that letter and the polygraph issue is what bothered me the most and then I found multiple sources where Ford's friend denied it entirely. So the ex was making stuff up in this regard at least, is my opinion.
The other things weren't so absolutist to me so not even something to dispute. Trauma and the mind works in funny ways. I'm afraid of many things but I force myself to do it. Very few people's insides and outsides match 1:1.
Even though I knew 53% of white women voted for Trump, Kavanaugh/Trump's support from such a diverse group of women is unsettling.
161
@Tedj On October 1st, after both of their testimony, 52% of women believed Dr. Ford vs 27% for Kavanaugh.
Source: NPR PBS NewsHour Poll.
2
A remarkable number of these women are just parroting Republican's brazen misogynistic and self serving stratagy of turning this into male grievance. How many of these women that seem so convinced that Kavanaugh is the victim of false accusations and a smear campaign actually watched Professor Ford's testimony? Republicans under Trump seem more and more like a cult of personality.
369
@wschill2-It's very possible they did not watch the entire hearing nor dig deeper into the news to read about Judge Kavanaugh's record and the lies he made before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
2
@Ann-That said, what I'm struck by is while the men are elevated, there's a kind of contempt leveled at women.
@wschill2 Yes, this is so perplexing. If someone listened to both testimonies that day, it is hard to come away with anything but disdain for how Kavanaugh handled himself. He was just so belligerent to female Senators. Obviously, these women didn't really listen to the pure testimonies, just the Fox News slate on them. Empty vessels happily filled by Fox News.
1
Very disappointed with the sampling. At least give us some stats behind it.
And the one who went to Palo Alto University-- shouldn't there be follow-up: was Dr Blasey one of her profs, maybe gave her a bad grade?
152
@B Barton
Follow up is needed as Fiori evidently misrepresented her views. Another commenter researched Fiori and found out she's been conservative for a long time, therefore her "I will be voting republican now" statement rings hollow.
2
Very disappointed with the sampling. At least give us some stats behind it. And the one who went to Palo Alto University-- shouldn't there be follow-up: was Dr Blasey one of her profs, maybe gave her a bad grade?
13
@B Barton It is NOT random. What stats do you want? An investigation on each commenter? That would be a great way to encourage people to comment if the NYT investigated each of them.
Kavanaugh is a partisan hack. His personal conduct and temperament would be deal-breakers even if he was politically neutral.
156
@Heidi Haaland
That’s why Republicans refused to provide 85% of Kavanaugh’s record in George W. Bush’s White House. Kavanaugh was a right wing political operative. If he has any honor about him he should recuse himself from any matter before the Court where a lawyer who is a known Democrat is handling that matter.
8
It shocks and saddens me how many seems unaware that women who make fake claims of sexual assault fit a specific pattern, none of which Dr. Ford fits. First and foremost, they do not wait 30+ years to come forward with their claim.
The women quoted here seem to be echoing the theory that men are the ones in danger and women are the ones we have to watch out for.
And who made up that line? Oh, yes: Older, white, Republican men.
382
You are not accurate in saying most women do not wait 30 years. Many traumatized people do not tell their stories until decades later. Why not believe survivors? I'm telling you first hand experience.
Kavanaugh used the Trump playbook with his tirade during the hearing last week.
From Bob Woodward's, "Fear: Trump in the White House":
"Trump gave some private advice to a friend who had acknowledged some bad behavior toward women. Real power is fear. It's all about strength. Never show weakness. You've always got to be strong. Don't be bullied. There is no choice."
" You've got to deny, deny, deny and push back on these women," he said. "If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead. That was a big mistake you made. You didn't come out guns blazing and just challenge them. You showed weakness. You've got to be strong. You've got to be aggressive. You've got to push back hard. You've got to deny anything that's said about you. Never admit."
Donald Trump and Brett Kavanaugh are peas in a pod. The Supreme Court has been tarnished.
Hopefully when the Democrats finally get the 90% of his writings that the Republicans withheld they will be able to prove Kavanaugh committed perjury.
240
@L - There is enough already to prove perjury. Republicans won't allow it to go forward. We need to vote in more Dems to balance power. Ethics and morality no longer matter.
10
I’m very surprised at the preponderance of white women in the responses you featured who did not believe Dr. Ford. Is that truly the ratio you received in the 40,000 responses? I’m also surprised that they were not bothered by Judge Kavanaugh’s behavior during the confirmation. This is a lifetime appointment. In the past there have been many nominees who have withdrawn after things came out in the past - thinking of the illegal babysitter. It is not unusual and there was no burden of proof required. To me he failed the job interview.
289
@Cathy
It was not the ratio. They were trying to even the playing field but it is very misleading.
Her Lesson: Always tell the truth.
Except, apparently, that doesn't apply to sworn testimony before a Senate panel interviewing you for a job.
It seems "truth" now has a Republican meaning...
87
In the inimitable words of our poetic President , is this, indeed "a very scary time for young men in America"?
Yes, it is.
And it should be.
At least as scary as it has been for a long time for all women in America.
What you do today (or tonight) may come back to haunt you in ways it never did your fathers or grandfathers.
62
These comments make me so sad. How can women not believe each other? Have they never had a friend who was the victim of a sexual assault?
We’re shrieking and clawing because that’s what a fierce caged animal desperate for freedom and dignity does in response to being subjugated. Imagine the future when we realize we had the key all along!
102
@Exile In
Please read online the letter from Dr. Ford’s ex boyfriend...that only came out 7 days ago. You’ll understand a lot of women not believing her...if they read that letter.
"If you are ever a victim of sexual harassment or assault, speak up when it happens."
People do not understand how trauma works. First, most women (as well as male victims) are in shock and have trouble making sense of what just happened. It takes time to step back and think clearly (meaning not hours, but often years). Second, a primary urge is to go scrub your body clean after sexual assault; it's not to want to immediately go to an ER in bloody or semen-stained clothes where you may sit for several hours before you get an invasive forensic rape kit (that may or may not even be processed) and to be interviewed by detectives who may or many not treat you with respect and dignity and who may blame you. So, while you think it's the 'right' and 'rational' thing to do, you never know what you'll do until you're in that circumstance. It's true whether your perpetrator is a stranger or a formally trusted friend. It's also true if you wake up, having been drugged, not knowing what exactly happened.
211
This clueless statement, “Speak up when it happens”, angers me so deeply, it hurts. Many victims don’t have a safe person to confide in, others are terrified of going to the police, at risk of even worse violence resulting. Even trusted people aren’t always reliable- my own mother denied my sexual trauma at seven years of age, effectively denying my truth and burying the incident immediately. Reporting isn’t a luxury that all victims have.
37
I just saw a self-help show on TV where the girl DID speak up when she was being molested.
It didn't help. Her grandfather threatened suicide if he went to jail, and the girl's mother -- who had also been molested by him when young -- told her to keep quiet. She also warned her daughter that telling her father would make the father kill the grandfather and wind up in prison himself.
This is a great example of why victims don't tell. Nobody likes to hear this news, and some people will do anything in order to keep living as if it's not true.
3
@Anne - And then the perp claims it was consensual.
1
@Sheila Coleman your last point is spot on. Something tells me kavanaugh has used his get out of jail free card (“I went to Yale law”) many times!
26
It's an amazing the New York Times chose these stories because they basically reiterate the same thing. Women are victims. If women wants a truly Empower themselves they need to get past this victim mentality and stop blaming other people. The reality is that this Kavanaugh case really didn't have anything to do with sexual assault. The FBI cleared Cavanaugh of any wrongdoing so what's the real issue? It's simply women projecting their hatred and their animosity towards past mistreatments in a situation is not even applicable.
6
@Harland Waters It's easy for a man to complain that women make themselves out to be the victim. Tell me how many men are overcome physically by a woman seeking to sexually assault them. Zero probably.
7
@Harland Waters Hi, I just wanted to address the “women are victims” comment. If someone violates a person’s boundaries and personal safety, then yes, they have victimized someone. Speaking out is not an affirmation of that person’s “victim status” - it’s an attempt to take their power back from the person who took theirs. Telling your story is empowering.
17
And how, exactly, was I supposed to be “empowered” against the 6’4”, 200 lb. guy who attacked me? Oh, right, I shouldn’t “blame” other people, just myself, I guess. Truly offensive.
13
For those who are worried about their sons: just teach them about consent! It's not that difficult. Sexual consent is actually fun!!
I actually have hope that this generation won't have the same issues that previous generations did. From what I can tell, our young men are much less likely to grab women without consent than our President was.
31
@Laura Right. That worked great for the Duke lacrosse players.
1
I don't understand why the pro-K women are so worried for their sons and not worried for young women. Chances of women being sexually assaulted are way higher than men being falsely accused. Sigh.
307
@R And it's not just their daughters who are at a greater risk. The chances of men being sexually assaulted are also higher than the chances of men being falsely accused.
10
@R These are the same women, who, a century ago, would have fought down the right of women to vote. Yes, there were such creatures and some of the ideas compelling them included believing that a woman's place was in the home and not being involved in politics. The irony of course is that conservative women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly would have had zero chances in their careers if it were not for their progressive sisters fighting for their rights in the first place.
7
@R......and how many young men are assaulted by woman in universities? In the military?
I dislike the analogy of the women protesting Kavanaugh to a “mob.” No, they were citizens exercising their First Amendment rights.
Can’t the cranky old GOP men who don’t seem to know much about sexual assault understand that the protesters were trying to get their attention which has been sorely lacking in the policies on issues of utmost and even exclusive importance to women.
Listen up boys....
74
It is sad to see so many conservative women blame victims ... worse to watch them demand higher standards for women than men. They seem more offended by the protests made by victims of sexual assault than sexual assault itself.
I also find it very disconcerting that the GOP spin ... which literally makes no logical sense ... is parroted so freely.
204
@txyankee-I used the occasion of the hearings to talk to my younger, more conservative sister. It was helpful for us to reveal the experiences we had internalized, kept quiet, and blamed ourselves for. I've since gone on to talk to my partner and several more friends; including men. It's enlightening and healing to address these experiences openly.
1
If this is a correct proportional representation of the 40,000 responses you received (which I kind of doubt), then there is still an enormous number of either naive or willfully ignorant women in this country. Any woman who could have watched Kavanaugh's behavior in the hearing and given him the benefit of the doubt has no grounding in the rational world nor any comprehension of the qualities required in a Supreme Court judge. I shudder for the future.
153
Lord, I hope it’s not a proportional representation. If so, we’re toast.
4
It's sad how many women take the knee-jerk reaction that poor wittle Kavanaugh was falsely accused (and by association that other women are basically evil). Sure, anyone can accuse anyone else of anything, but these women, in their misguided ideas about standin' by yore ma-en, have completely dismissed three very important things: 1) the mounds of evidence that Kavanaugh was indeed a cad in high school and college and a sloppy and aggressive drunk; 2) that decades ago, and even today, women stay silent about assault because - well, they won't be believed because of self-blame and victim-blame - the very reactions these women have; 3) while we'll never know if Kavanaugh lied regarding the assault on Dr. Ford, we do know that he lied about his behavior as a young adult and he expressed a shocking degree of partisanship.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I'm grateful to have male and female friends, who can separate fact from fiction enough to believe Dr. Ford came forward due to her conscientious and her love of country, not as a partisan pawn. Perhaps the women who criticize her can't imagine that level of courage and strength of character because they themselves aren't capable of it.
171
Why are these people all so sure that Ford lied? Right, because that’s what Fox and Trump told them to think. Never mind a long list of completely incriminating Kavanaugh actions, including perjury.
114
@Boggle
Read the letter from Dr. Ford’s ex boyfriend that arrived online 7 days ago and was submitted to the Senate. Easily googled.
To the women here who implied or flat out said Dr. Ford lied: most likely there is a woman in your life - a family member, friend, co-worker- who is the victim of sexual assault. She’s probably never talked about it before or reported it when it happened for a variety of reasons that you clearly do not want to try to understand. And now you’ve all but guaranteed she will never confide in you what happened to her.
131
There’s no question that they know a woman who’s been sexually assaulted.
8
@Liesl I also would not be surprised if some of these women were sexual assault victims themselves. It's like with the LGBTQ+ movement: some of the most adamant haters were gay themselves but were self-hating enough to try to even put forth policies that would discriminate against LGBTQ people. It might be easier for these women to take control by saying they were responsible for their own assaults rather than realize the truth that a trusted family member, colleague, boy friend, etc. (most of the time, not a complete stranger) did something to them that they had no control over. Yes, bad things happen in life.
4
As Ms. Jaffer stated, "no woman can forget the man who tried to pull her clothes off of her". Any woman who has experienced this knows exactly what Ms. Jaffer means. These women who doubt Dr. Ford have no idea what this experience is like. When Dr. Ford talked about the laughter, millions of us knew exactly what she experienced. For those who haven't had to live through this, count your blessings.
155
It is surprising how many people will twist the facts to suit their own own political beliefs. A rational person would recognize that you cannot convict a man of sexual assault in the court of public opinion. He wasn't at risk of going to prison. He wasn't even at risk of losing his present job. And nobody was ever going to be proven guilty or innocent in this situation. The man was applying for a job. If he were in the middle of a job interview with any other organization when someone came forward with allegations of sexual assault against him, the business considering hiring him would have moved on to other qualified candidates. Had the Judiciary Committee done as much, no one would be furtively discussing the lasting damage done to our democracy by their actions. Kavanaugh would still be a Federal Judge. Conservatives would still have a partisan majority on the Supreme Court (a fact which betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of the high court...but nevertheless.) And Democrat women would not be able to call into question the legitimacy of every decision made by a court now stacked with two men credibly accused of sexual misconduct. This was botched from start to finish by the Senate. Mr. McConnell should be ashamed instead of gloating.
121
@LB
McConnell knows no shame.
3
I feel very, very sorry for any daughters of the pro-K women. I hope they never face a situation where they keep silent about their own victimization over the fear that their accusations will be considered "false".
I am deeply grateful that my own mother was not a conservative or misogynist apologist for "protecting our men" when I was 16 and needed her most.
80
Wow. As a parent of both a son and a daughter, I have a hard time relating to these comments that so clearly value sons over daughters. I feel more protective of my daughter than my son, because I know she faces, and has faced, much more oppression than my son.
I would be lividly protective of my son if I thought he was being unreasonably persecuted for things he had not done. But, the chances of my daughter being abused is hundreds of times greater than my son being unfairly accused of abusing someone.
My lesson?
Abusive males still have the advantage, and many females are aiding and abetting them. :^(
257
The lesson I learned is that, incredibly enough, a white male, elitist (sic) preparatory school community likely still grooms young men, of questionable character but who dress nice and put on a facade of manners in public, to take positions of power. The network then uses its connections to ensure their 'golden boys' achieve power.
I believe the "intellect" Brett Kavanaugh allegedly possesses is nothing more than what this network bought him. To me, his performance at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings confirms this.
Yale should do all it can to ban its sick Secret Societies.
62
@Ben Graham's Ghost...
Well. like Kavanaugh said. What comes around, goes around.
I wonder....
A question l would have liked to have asked him if I'd had been one of the senators interrogating him..
If one of your daughters, in about 5 years
Were to find herself on a dark narrow stairway, all alone, ...with no witnesses to see...
Would you feel comfortable if she encounters a drunken Brett Kavanaugh type guy in her path?...
Then I'd watch him squirm as he lied..
1
This wasn’t a trial. FBI investigation was very very limited. To actually say you sided with anyone how could you be sure. But as far as I was concern his nasty demeanor even questioning the Congressman like a Person on Witness stand was unbecoming of a Judge or as many said this was a JOB interview would most certainly not get the job if he ask interviewer the same way . Answering a question with a question with the tone he used is wrong. He
My talk with my children . This is Politics and its get dirty. Keeps your nose clean, zippers up and hands off. Your an adult now and you will have to face your own consequences.
25
Thank you, NY Times, for including voices who are the opposite of your demographic. I think what we see is that many women don't actually "always believe the victim", and that many think the democrats debased themselves, and democracy, during this incident. I got a lot out of hearing these words from the women who went through this.
11
@David KonerdingI want to know the political breakdown of the respondents. I’m guessing your side was over represented in the article.
6
@David Konerding
Went through what?
8
@David Konerding Hear hear! I was pleasantly surprised to read a range of viewpoints. Glad to see that--at least in this feature--the NYT isn't treating all women as a monolithic group.
I must say I was quite surprised that NYT put out balanced views from both sides. Shows reasonable people can disagree and you can believe Dr Ford about her experience and at the same time confirm the judge as well articulated by Senator Collins
8
What on earth did I just read? How is it that out of 40,000 responses, you chose to publish almost entirely the ones that sided with the accused sexual assaulter? I am an American woman with a large community of women--friends, coworkers, family, religious peers--all of whom have suffered stress and fear over the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. I also followed the situation closely on the radio and in the news, and it is abundantly clear that the majority of women in this country do not feel kindly toward this man. I understand the need to show multiple viewpoints, but I am genuinely disappointed that the NYT chose to feature the words of so many women who seemed to have internalized the misogyny that runs rampant in our country.
346
Maybe they chose this because they’re representative of the responses they received, as they stated.
2
@John Very bold! Where does it state that those responses are representatives ?
52% of women believe Dr. Ford vs 27% believe Kavanaugh. NPR/PBS/Newshour Oct 1st Poll.
@Lauren:
I suspect that the proportion of printed responses is reflective of the responses received. It is quite likely that many other women did not have the luxury of an NYT subscription or the time to respond. Moreover, I would not be at all surprised to learn that many of the responders were urged on by social media.
Organize- they have been doing so for fifty years while the left slept. And VOTE!
1
I am utterly aghast at how many of these respondents came away with the conclusion that this was about a woman making a false report and that the man was the wronged party. The testimonies were disturbing in and of themselves but this litany of willful blindness is stunning to me.
142
@Nancy Julian....And to think that these are educated woman too! And to imagine that their daughters know that their own mothers wouldn't even believe them if they would ever go to them for comfort.
2
Wow. Where did you find these people? So they are all convincing themselves that she lied - when we all could plainly see at her testimony that she did not - in order to justify putting their boy in. This country is hopeless.
81
It's astounding to me that many women who commented simply accepted the GOP stance that it was all a plot to keep Kavanaugh from the bench and that Dr. Ford was lying. They seemed not to even consider that Kavanaugh might be lying. None of them seemed to consider what it cost Dr. Ford to come forward.
Sexism is endemic in our culture and has been for generations. Not one of these women who took that view seemed to indicate that they would support their daughters in speaking out, instead cautioning them not to make up tales--that's mindblowing to me. What have we come to as a nation when we don't value our daughters as much as our sons, and when we've tacitly endorsed sexual assault and the corruption of our courts? Not one of the women commented on the fact that Kavanaugh demonstrated such partisanship and a temperament not fit for the SCOTUS. What have we come to as a nation now that every single branch of our government has been tainted by the GOP greed for power?
119
As a 77 year old male my takeaway from this article is that I'm absolutely shocked at the proportion of women who side with Kavanaugh.
155
The Trump/Fox narrative has been effective, as many comments reveal, but it is deeply flawed. First, Senate Republicans - who set all parameters for the hearings - invited Dr. Ford to testify under conditions worse than those afforded Anita Hill decades earlier - at least Anita Hill’s testimony was preceded by an independent FBI investigation and accompanied by relevant witnesses. Second, there is no evidence proving Kavanaugh’s innocence, and at least some circumstantial evidence supports Dr. Ford, including credible reports of his excessive drinking and aggressive conduct when drunk, his provocative calendar entries and peer recollections describing an alcohol and sex infused prep school culture, as well as her revelations of the assault to those close to her years before Brett Kavanaugh was on any list for the Supreme Court. Attacking her as a proven liar while celebrating him as a righteous victim is wholly unjustified. Third, less than 5% of assault claims are false, and most assaults are unreported because of the shaming and attacks Trumpists now are directing at Dr. Ford. It’s still much less safe to be a female in this country at risk of physical assault than to be a male at risk of false accusations. Fourth, opponents were not some “mob” but rather a majority of Americans and leaders in the legal and Jesuit communities, many of whom were disgusted by his partisan attacks, evasions and conspiracy theories.
55
The only reason why Dr. Ford's story wasn't corroborated is because of a lack of moral courage. Those people who know who Brett did, aren't saying. So, it's their fault, and no one else's.
So here's the lesson for both our sons and daughters: speak up. Tell the truth. Remaining silent is being complicit, and the bad stuff that happens is then partly your fault.
26
These responses from women really scared me. As a mom of sons who are grown, I was disturbed by the mother who feels her son now needs to keep a calendar journal versus conducting himself as a young man who respects all women! It seemed she felt that all young men are victim. Wow!!
65
I'm a mother of 4 wife, I to have a daughter and my husband and I convey to her and my son's. Your integrity and character are who you are I never thought for one that a woman would be subjected to the behavior of one's action against her as if she was on trial despicable , but everyone has their day God knows what happened and I surely believe her.
8
“Tell my son to keep a calendar journal?”
Or “make sure my son understands any relationship before he enters into it...”
Seriously, where did you find these women? I am floored especially as CNN reports that the Kavanaugh appointment now has 63% of women planning to vote Democratic.
Some of these comments were embarrassing to me that we share the same gender because we are most assuredly NOT on the same planet.
Dr. Ford, on behalf of those of us our POTUS didn’t apologize to Kavanaugh for yesterday; thank you. You sacrificed much and know it wasn’t for naught.
201
I'm horrified at the number of women in this story think that Dr Ford was lying about her sexual assault as a teenager and was being used as a political pawn of the Democrats. Dr Ford informed her husband and therapist YEARS ago, long before the mainstream public knew of Brett Kavanaugh, of her sexual assault. She had nothing to gain from coming forward and everything to lose. She has received death threats and has had to move out of her home.
I find it interesting that these women are teaching their sons to watch their backs. How about teaching your sons to respect women and not be sexual predators? Having more women in politics will not change anything if these women are Stepford Wives stuck in the 1950s and don't see anything wrong with how Dr Ford was treated.
And, this was not a criminal trial, it was a job interview. He did not need to be proven innocent only if he was qualified to become a Supreme Court Justice. If Judge Kavanaugh came into my office for a job interview and behaved they way he did, I would have ended the interview and had security escort him out of the building.
364
At my last job, we had a Kavanaugh-like situation. A director candidate made it to the point where he got a verbal offer, then someone on the hiring committee heard a rumor about something unethical that the candidate supposed did at a previous job. We called him in to address it. It is inconceivable that he would have received a formal job offer had he gotten belligerent, ranted about conspiracy theories, or treated the committee members with anything other than deference and respect.
8
While I appreciate hearing from -- and seeing all the beautiful faces -- of women across the nation, a little bit of me died inside every time one of them not-so-subtly suggested that Dr. Ford lied. Absolutely soul crushing.
147
The Republican women included here seem to be following their party's line. Dr. Ford had nothing to gain by coming forward; Judge Kavanaugh had everything to lose if he admitted the truth. She wanted an FBI investigation; he didn't. He minimized his drinking and other bad/illegal behavior during high school. She passed a polygraph; he had the privilege of being a rich, white, male who attended elite schools and colleges, so the senators automatically believed him instead of her.
58
Thank you for this article. I’m shocked to read that the smear campaign against Dr.Ford was believed by so many women across America.
We all knew that Senate Democrats would fight the confirmation of a second conservative justice by the Trump administration tooth and nail even before a nominee was named. Im sure the smell of a partisan fued made any and all allegations against Judge Kavanaugh look dubious. But its truly shocking to see so many mothers convinced that evil feminists are out to destroy their boys with false accusations of rape.
I’m both devasted for what this country has become and galvanized to vote and donate to political campaigns.
96
My overarching thought after reading this is that it's depressing how many women are still making excuses for the bad behavior of men, and blaming women for making a fuss about it. Heaven help them should they or their children ever be victimized, either by assault or by shaming.
I do agree with one point, we shouldn't have dismissed Clinton's accusers so easily.
195
@rbyteme But it wasn't, not "so easily" at least. Clinton was impeached for his mistakes WRT Lewinsky, and Kavanaugh was part of the charge (and even though there was an imbalance of power between him and her, I feel what he went through for the impeachment was "punishment" enough for that error of judgement on his part, and Lewinsky herself has mostly said it was consensual). There were other accusations some of which made it to court but overall I agree, Clinton got off easier than some others but he did face some consequences.
2
@rbyteme--Maybe they grew up in repressive, male-dominated families and raised their own the same way. That might give them cause for worrying about their fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons.
But I bet most of them watch Fox and/or listen to Rush (if he's still on the air).
4
I'm so sorry to see these are the lessons so many women took away from this. I was equally saddened to see how many thought Dr. Ford was falsely accusing Kavanaugh. Most horrific, though, was that the main lesson so many of these women felt they should pass onto their children was for the boys to be careful they aren't falsely accused! To me, the most important lesson is to teach young girls is to be very proactive about their own safety and not go to wild parties where there is a lot of drinking. Yes, women SHOULD be able to do that just as men can, but the fact is they can't. They must assume responsibility for their own safety because they are the only ones who will.
47
I am so discouraged to read, from almost every GOP- and Kavanaugh-leaning woman featured here, that Dr. Ford alleged something false, and that their advice to sons is to protect themselves from women who would do such a heinous thing.
Is it any wonder that modern American society is in free fall with such misogynistic attitudes from women?
This kind of willful ignorance explains why the polarization and acrimony will continue, and why women will not take the chance of speaking up after assault; if their societal sisters automatically dismiss their claims (no matter how many years later), then victims are effectively assaulted twice.
I am a woman in her mid-fifties with two sons and a daughter. Only in the past two weeks have I told my 30 year old daughter about an assault that happened to me overseas 17 years ago. Does the time gone by somehow invalidate the attack or my suffering? Does the fact that I didn't report it to the resort or Cuban police negate its truth? No.
A lack of empathy to imagine another's circumstances is contagious; the president has infected the country with the disease of callous indifference marked by mocking and a cold heart.
166
As a member of the next generation, born in 2003, I am afraid that his position on the court threatens historic precedents like Roe vs. Wade. Having a man accused of sexual assault (who, whether or not it happened, is partisan and acted ridiculously during the hearings "Yeah, and I'm curious if you have") on the Supreme Court sends a message about American values. Christine Blasey Ford was so brave to come forward and share her story. Hopefully, my generation will vote thoughtfully and promote justice.
I think if someone is accused of sexual assault, instead of decrying the accusations as fake, if they are fake, the person should work as hard as they can to promote positive change in culture around women. Instead of getting angry, Kavanaugh could go to talks or volunteer or make an active effort to understand rape culture and problems that exist with sexual harassment. Getting angry does nothing positive. It convinced the people that believed him to believe him and showed the people that did not believe him that he was not fit for the Supreme Court anyway.
It's interesting that the article says what are things you hope the next generation "will learn." This court case battle has taught me in real time the increasingly polarized nature of American politics. I hope my generation is already learning and tuning in.
58
@Anonymous If the wisdom and thinking you display in your post is representative of your generation's, then I am extremely optimistic about the future.
2
Very disheartening to read that so many of these women felt that the only lesson learned is to protect their sons from false accusation. Very disheartening to see that these same women seem to feel that Dr. Ford made up her accusations. Apparently, such an intelligent, articulate women would put herself out there to be abused and threatened by Republican trolls just for what? To accuse an innocent man? For what gain to herself? Yes, I think the Democrats could have handled it better. But, in the end, the Republicans were not going to vote no. No matter what.
39
I’m absolutely shocked that so many women think she falsely accused Jusge Kavanaugh. I absolutely believe her. Women don’t forget or misidentify the assailant when he is an acquaintance. It’s still hard for young women today to take legal action against someone they thought was a friend but didn’t act like one. So much of his behavior at the hearing was unjudicial and undeserving of the position.
90
After reading these responses, I’m beginning to think the reason American women don’t have equal rights has as much —or more— to do with wrong thinking women as it does with men.
166
Careful, that’s sexist.
2
@John . Yes. That is precisely the point Stephanie is making: that women are sexist too, and some women are not aware of these biases which are self-limiting.
@John
Truth is truth.
I responded to this questionnaire and I’m curious as to the political breakdown of the respondants. How many Dems responded? How many Republicans? Independents?
16
This is a turning point. We, the survivors of sexual assault, will not be bullied into silence.
21
It's somewhat shocking that the pro-Kavanaugh respondents speak about evidence, but only the evidence that confirms what appear as biases. Ironic, because Dr. Blasey is the one whose character is being maligned as if she were some sort of political operative, with no evidence beyond disconnected conspiratorial tidbits.
25
@omartraore
That Dr. Ford pass a polygraph administered by an experienced, qualified and FBI-trained examiner tells us who was speaking truth.
That Kavanaugh refused to submit to a polygraph is evidence that he feared the truth coming to light.
3
The biggest thing that I think we can learn from the Kavanaugh hearings is that, as Bill Maher said, power begets power. No matter what happens in the future the Republicans will control everything. Any legal issue that matters will be referred to the Supreme Court, where no Democrat will be able to win any decision or judgement. In the future, in government or the courts, recognize where something is either going, or could go. If it leads to total power stop it in its tracks before it gains ultimate strength. This time, we were sleeping on the job and the conservatives took advantage of it. Don't make that mistake again.
15
As the youngest child, I struggled when i saw how my mother and elder sisters were discriminated against at work. How they were passed over for promotions. How their career track went on a different (lower) trajectory altogether after they took time off for child birth. How their performance reviews included the word “emotional” to impact their assessment negatively.
When I joined the workforce, I saw the uneven power dynamics and how women had to keep quiet when harassed. I beamed with pride when a co-worker slapped a client who tried to use his ability to award a business contract to his advantage with an indecent proposal. I supported a new hire report a much senior colleague for harassment. I had to argue with seniors to nominate a woman as my replacement to the leadership team.
It’s abundantly clear to me what the patriarchy looks like. It’s clear to me that men need to play their part for equality.
But, it depresses me to read polls where only 47% of white women believed Dr Ford while 43% believed Kavanaugh.
How is that possible? Were we even watching the same proceedings?
This was not a court of law. It wasn’t a conviction. It was a job interview. With an assessment of credible claims. Not proven. Just Credible. What he would lose would be a job. Which hundreds could fill from the GOP alone.
If a majority of white women continue to support their race over their gender, women’s rights will stay where they are. And the patriarchy will continue to flourish...
30
It is interesting how the pro-Kavanaugh crowd fall back on the lack of evidence "beyond any reasonable doubt" to excuse Kavanaugh as they weave an intricate web to support their obviously predetermined conclusions based on their party affiliation. Surely innocence beyond any reasonable doubt is a more important benchmark for a lifetime SCOTUS Justice?
Some heiled Sen Collins for looking at the facts - the concern with Kavanaugh's defensiveness, his disrespectful behavior towards the Senate, his temperament and his lies under oath were completely ignored by Sen. Collins as she pursued her customary path of feigning principle while in the end voting to support trump's agenda.
In this hyperpartisan political environment, fueled by trump, facts no longer seem to matter.
21
The thoughts and views shared are appreciated, but I was surprised that of the views shared, none discussed the idea that this process ought to have been slowed down to get it right and possess a degree of consensus.
If the Kavanaugh process is used by the right against the left, those to the left must firmly stick with the facts.
Kavanaugh was protested by Democrats because of three issues:
1. Not allowing 90% of his record to be released was deceitful and immoral.
2. The candidates financial difficulties were not clearly explored or explained.
3. Allegations such as those we learned about must be ethically, fairly, and privately addressed.
The secrecy and rush in this nomination was purposeful and anti democratic with the sole purpose of further dividing Americans and fulfilling an ominous plan far from the Nations Character and Values.
A few men won(again), while a nation of the PEOPLE for the PEOPLE lost.
76
I'm an old woman who has been very frightened of Trump and the way important Republicans have bought into his act in order to get the changes they want in our country. The complete acceptance of Trump's and Kavanaugh's lies by the Republican women quoted here tells me we are very far from healing as a nation and from working together again. And that makes me sad.
32
A better question may be "What have the recent right-leaning justices actually done to restrain or lessen left-leaning causes? Say for instance, Justice Thomas, or whomever you consider to be in that right-leaning category." I offer this as a Kennedy-era liberal, anti-war activist and equal rights supporter who can still question the political motives and judicial actions across the spectrum. Newly minted Justice Kavanaugh could turn out to be a constitutional chrysalis that emerges from his reactionary cocoon and surprises us all. Not promising, more hoping. Justices Kagan and Ginsberg still have some seniority.
4
@Nature Boy
You forget that one of the SC decisions greatly weakened voting rights protections and that legislatures in several southern states went right out and changed voting laws, limiting polling places and voting hours. It has already been shown that lower income areas have fewer polling places and lines are way longer, with polling places closing before all those in line get to vote. And places that allowed Sunday voting changed the rules to eliminate it. I recently moved to New Hampshire where one can actually register to vote on voting day. I registered this morning and will be out of town on election day so asked for an absentee ballot. It was immediately provided and I could have filled it in right then and there, but have not yet had a chance to study the candidates for school board. I will be doing that this week and will turn in my ballot on next Monday. This is a purple state and is in great shape, financially, environmentally with low unemployment. We do have a serious drug problem, but it is being worked on and not just ignored or swept under the rug.
3
I can’t square the overall tenor of these comments with many other reports indicating the majority of women state their belief in Dr Ford, are alarmed and angry with the Republicans. This sense is even stronger among women I know. This piece feels wrong and misleading, and would benefit from far greater analysis of how “representative” was determined and especially that some other representation of the data, for instance statistically and the backgrounds of responders: do they belong to a party?
19
@Peter I think this article does not correspond to a statistical representation of the thoughts of women in this country. (If The New York Times is implying that it does, I think that is truly misleading.) Without their disclosure of how the respondents were obtained and in what manner, how the questions were fielded, how the responses were chosen to be published, etc. we can't read anything into how the comments they have published quantitatively reflect the thoughts of U.S. women at large. While I appreciate that the NYT has tried to represent viewpoints that are somewhat varied, without an insightful quantitative analysis the article's comments are anecdotal at best. Based on my own viewpoint, the opinions of women I know, and the comments in this comments section, it seems many believe the article shows a bias toward pro-Kavanaugh women that seems surprising if we infer that it reflects applicable U.S. demographics -- which I truly hope it doesn't, as I would be even more disappointed in the women of this country than I have been already.
3
What I find so striking is so many of these women who support his nomination viewed the Kav hearings as a trial and not the job interview that it was. You can't talk about presumed innocence and rule of law at a job interview. You either think the man is right for this position or not. He should be judged his judicial history, his temperament and by the those who come to testify about his humanity. This man failed to meet the test of highest qualified and many of us did not want him hired.
28
The lesson is that we’ve still got a long, long way to go when it comes to how we treat women who “cause problems” by speaking out after assault or harassment. Many of our citizens have changed since Anita Hill, but our government has not. The women who came forward were harassed by the public, the president and senators. The women who took off work and traveled miles to protest and tell their stories were mocked as “clowns” by senators like McConnell. Some senators tried to say “I believe Dr. Ford except for the part where she named her attacker.” That’s not belief. That’s disbelief. A vast majority of Americans were polled as not approving of Kavanaugh for any number of reasons, yet he was confirmed. The lesson is that if we want our government to reflect our beliefs, we have to keep protesting, donating, supporting political newcomers, and voting in every little election, otherwise the citizens change, but the people in power hold back the country’s progress.
20
I'm glad the NYT included both sides of the argument, it would have been very easy for them to only show the people who are disgusted by Kavanaugh. I hope people can read this and understand that not all women think the same way, no group thinks the same way nor should they be expected to.
7
Interesting reactions to Kavanaugh's confirmation.
At no point did anyone seem to be concerned about his abuse of alcohol as a under-age teen and college student when the legal drinking age was 21.
Alcohol is a legal---regulated--- drug which is intended to be used for recreational purposes by adults. Millions of American families are affected by addiction to alcohol. Millions of Americans are addicted to alcohol and do not receive treatment. The cost of extra health care, the cost of lost productivity, the cost in lives lost to accidents and suicide and so many other costs which are not tracked add up to millions of dollars wasted.
Confirming to SCOTUS a man whose addiction to alcohol when it was illegal for him to drink without any current investigation by a neutral party was irresponsible of the Senate. That US society turns a blind eye to the abuse of alcohol at all levels does not excuse confirming a person to a lifetime appointment on SCOTUS without evidence from a health exam and testimony from current witnesses that Kavanaugh has stopped the abuse of alcohol he did as an under-aged teen and in law school.
Kanvanaugh's defensiveness when asked questions about his use of alcohol raises red flags that should be examined in more detail. The financial concerns and missing documents from his partisan work for Bush II need further examination as well. It is not due process when the process is cut off before completion by the Republicans for political reasons.
22
“Job interview” in this context is a calculated disingenuos talking point. If one is accused and questioned under oath about a criminal offense it is a de facto trial. The presumption of innocence , in all contexts, is a universal human right.
4
@koln99
Tell it to the refugees we refuse to take in because they might be terrorists.
5
@koln99 Goes both ways - Ford was also under oath. Ford is also innocent until she is proven guilty of all the things being accused of. So the most "fair" response is to say "we don't know." I would say a bit more but that is my opinion based on his behaviour and his own writings from then and even later. But to say "false accusation" is letting Kavanaugh enjoy that right and not doing the same for Ford. This is the double standard.
It is a job interview and you're right, the testimony of the key players was under oath (and Kavanaugh has the right to no incriminate himself but he has no right to lie), but the position itself is not a right, it is a privilege. There's no due process for job positions though I do believe that the hiring process for government employees does include some due process.
What I find disingenuous is that the arguments against Kavanaugh (as well as in favour of Ford) by those who prefer to believe Kavanaugh is not taken in the whole (multiple accusers, documented teenage behaviour) but rather piece by piece. Whereas Ford herself acknowledged the problems with her memory and was honest about what she couldn't remember, etc. She named people who were there at the party not knowing if they would remember it. And when they couldn't remember it, she explained it the best way she could whereas Kavanaugh said that her account was denied by the people she named including her friend (whereas what all the people said was that they couldn't remember).
3
@koln99 "trial" is a disingenuous talking point. If it was a just trial, actual witnesses would have been called; an actual investigation would have been conducted (like interviewing the myriad of Kavanaugh acquaintances that came forward to say that he lied about his drinking and behavior). The "right" wants to have it both ways: presumed innocent . . . only because we won't do anything to investigate potential guilt.
Victims of assault, it turns out, also have human right (or should). In fact, the political philosophy (classical liberalism) on which the whole idea of human rights is based starts with the presumption that we have an inherent right over our bodies ("life, liberty, and property" as articulated by John Locke and echoed by Jefferson). So the sob story about Kavanaugh being on trial (under no circumstances except a kangaroo court rigged against his accuser), rather than that a basic human right of investigating thoroughly an attempted invasion of one's body, is offensive to the very idea of human rights.
1
A very sad reminder that logic, facts, history, or even common sense are not viable ways to change the opinions of a Republican. Many of these comments make me feel that our country will not draw closer together in my lifetime. Republicans seem to live in a different world. And based on these comments, I’m sure they feel the same way about Democrats. I’m feeling a little hopeless right now.
21
Kavanaugh was evasive at every point during his questioning.
The committee used the prosecutor to interrogate Ford, but then filibustered when it was Kavanaugh's turn.
What were they so afraid of?
Also Ford must have some special powers to know so much about Kavanaugh's habits and inner circle during the summer of 82. Pretty remarkable that she knew he was hanging out with PJ, Squee, and Judge, and that they liked to drink to excess. I can't see how she would have been able to just make this stuff up.
So Kavanaugh is deliberately hiding things and being generally dishonest, Ford has remarkable knowledge of Kavanaugh's personal life and is calling for more investigation into her claims.... Combined I think that at the point the partisan committee stopped the hearings was in an effort to protect Kavanaugh from any further scrutiny because he was most likely guilty of the accusations.
And here's the thing about the presumption of innocence. This was not a courtroom with an impartial judge, an unfettered investigation, and a prosecutor would could question the witnesses and the accused unrestrained. So we, the public, have to make our judgement for ourselves based on the information we do have available.
At the point the hearings were stopped, Kavanaugh looked really guilty. And the committee knew it. Hence the halt to the prosecutor questioning him and no real investigation.
25
It would be great if the Times published some sort of statistical analysis of the responses.
I’m left thinking that the majority of women believe that Dr Ford was in the wrong, and that people protesting are in the wrong.
Am I right in my interpretation? Is this An accurate representation of America?
20
Monique Dorsey's line: "My daughter will learn to have respect for the rule of law and to not falsely accuse someone of deeds." Wow. Her daughter can have all the "respect for the rule of law" she wants -- what happens when the men around her don't? So many of these women are tone deaf, like the woman who thinks Roe v. Wade isn't under a threat to be overturned.
40
@kmmunoz, these women hate women. Period.
My take-away from reading some of these responses is that Republican voters are so used to be lied to by Republicans that they can't reasonably evaluate facts, body language, timelines, or manipulation and misdirection by both Kavanaugh and his Senate supporters. They must also harbor an unrecognized antipathy toward women victims.
We are in serious trouble.
For me, this Supreme Court is no longer legitimate. You can my name to that list.
128
Most Americans exist in a fantasy world, divorced from the reality of subjective existence altogether. But that was the plan all along.
14
I come away from this even more discouraged about the hope of any reconciliation between the left and right of this nation. I am left-leaning, and frankly could not fathom how the women who support Kavanaugh made the assumptions that they did. Jennifer Turpin says that Roe v. Wade will not be overturned because it is the law of the land. Yes, just like Dred Scott v. Sandford was the law of the land, and then mercifully was rendered moot. in other words, landmark cases can be overturned. SCOTUS established judicial review, and all signs point to the conservative majority overturning R v W when the right case comes along. Nicole MacKinnon says that if you are a victim of sexual assault you should report it immediately, completely ignoring the era, culture, and societal realities of 1983. Yvette Varela says that woman should stop making everything about gender, managing to forget that society has been controlled and ruled by men for essentially all of history, and that women have been across the board marginalized in that society from citizenship status to property rights to financial rights to marital justice to employment.
It's just maddening. Building bridges is all very well, but some variety of common ground would be necessary first.
33
I am saddened by these comments. It seems that all the women were viewing and responding to two different events. Much like there seems to be two different tales for every current event. I despair that we will never again know what truth is. And agree on it as a society.
31
I am truly saddened when I see comments that echo Trump’s fearmongering about entrapment of men. I believe Kavanaugh lied in his testimony in both his appearances. And unless investigative journalists do the work the FBI was not allowed to do, Kavanaugh ‘s only accountability will be embarrassment. Kavanaugh was put forward because his recommenders think he will curtail abortion and other reproductive rights women should be assured of. Projecting to him moderate, centrist views will break your heart.
18
@Upstate NY
Kavanaugh was put forward because he has stated that the president cannot be held accountable for his actions no matter what he does.
I think it's highly probable that he was asked not to withdraw his candidacy because no other judge on the slate of possible nominees has taken the same extreme position.
2
Any woman who doesn’t feel that her equal status is not under attack hasn’t been paying attention for the past 10,000 years.
26
Margaret Johnson wrote, "If I were advising a son, I would tell him to avoid like the plague any woman who identifies with people who will do literally anything for power...." She must mean Republicans, anyone who sides with Trump and Mitch McConnell.
22
@Texan Did you follow the Kavanaug case closely? Because to me it is pretty obvious that the Democrats goal was to stall and thats it. They do not care if these allegations are true and they do not care about the victim. What they want is power in terms of the SC seat. How do you see it?
@Zach Thomas Gorsuch was confirmed with relatively little opposition and some support from Democratic senators. There is no way Democrats expected a progressive judge while holding a minority in the Senate. I see it as recognition that Kavanaugh was not qualified for this job.
40K responded-- how many women said they's vote R, how many said they'd vote D, I wonder? I would really like an analysis and not only sound bites.
The comments from the psychotherapist who trained at Palo Alto University deserves follow-up. Why will she vote R now? Did she never vote, or voted D before, and this one confirmation hearing was enough to change her party affiliation?
9
America gave up any pretense of equality the instant Trump became the Republican nominee and every Republican in office lined up behind him. With the installation of Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, we can only expect that the oppression of women and minorities has well and truly begun and will set back the US a hundred years. Ginsberg will retire before long, and Breyer, too, and the 5-4 far-right majority will become 7-2. Expect the states to begin their anti-abortion agenda and the Court to uphold the new laws. LGBTI rights will be further eroded. Deportations and anti-immigration actions will increase.
What was once a progressive nation will become another failed democracy, like Hungary. The mid-terms can't stop it. This is a generational change.
21
"I will discipline them for vile behavior with everything in my power" sounds like the exact opposite of the "strength" Dr. Baracker praises in her first paragraph.
Kids will make mistakes. Kids will sometimes shed a few tears or raise their voice. If Dr. Baracker brandishes her sword in response, it will only produce emotionally bottled-up children who are less likely to report when something bad happens to them, and whose emotional angst will some day explode on an undeserving victim.
And the cycle of violence will continue.
3
@Chuck Yeah but there's also the thing about consequences. I am really forgiving of my children (and people around me) for mistakes and intentional misbehaviour but that doesn't mean I support their actions or that I don't let them know what the consequences would be. That's all I'm getting from Baracker.
However, I have learnt over time to do this disciplining in a kinder way than before. My first mentees, my first child, etc. had it the hardest. So I think it's possible to "brandish your sword" and instill discipline and ethics while still being compassionate and loving. It's a process though - I've not gotten perfect yet but I have gotten better.
Like one of the comments below, my response was also ‘Wow’! Most of these comments don’t reflect the women I’ve spoken with over the past days. For who can see past the horrible partisan back and forth, this was clearly a defining moment for women having the courage to speak out about trauma that they may have suffered in the past (however or whatever actually took place). And the bigger picture question truly had little to do with the incident being debated. Some of the women interviewed for this article are correct in stating that this wasn’t a trial, it was a job interview. But they missed the point. For anyone with any sense, the Judge failed the job interview dismally with his shocking lack of judicial temperament, sense of entitlement, and ugly display of partisanship and disrespect.
55
What were the % of support for Dr. Ford or for Judge Kavanaugh ? How many of those responding watched both interviews? It's a different thing to opine on something if you didn't see the actual interviews than if you watched the entire interviews.
9
It surprised me that a number of women here think Dr. Christine Blasey Ford was lying or out for power. Wow. As a sexual assault survivor, I can tell you that it is never easy to speak out your story because the associated shame is so strong. It's a sad commentary that a woman who gave credible testimony before the entire nation is vilified BY OTHER WOMEN for doing what she felt was her civic duty.
What I take from this is that some women are still so much under the thumb of male narrative that they can't look beyond it.
As a survivor I was terribly affected by this Senatorial debacle. As a survivor I feel trampled over by our male-dominated legislators who chose to act with blinders on so they could get their man on the bench. As a survivor, I feel outrage that the FBI investigation was so limited in scope - thanks to the White House - that it couldn't do an adequate job in interviewing all the people they should have. As a survivor, I felt debased by the process.
As a survivor, I am empowered to do everything that I can from now until the election to make sure women get to the polls and vote for people who respect them.
47
I agree with winchestereast. How many women have witnesses for any kind of sexual incidents? Except for checking the DNA of any children we may have, who could even prove they were not virgins? We generally do not have bruises or scarring from sexual contacts. Most of us do not talk about such contact.
These things always come down to believing the victim or not. After 35 years in child protective services, seeing thousands of children (boys and girls; babies to teens) who were sexually abused in some way, I am always inclined to believe the victim. Children, including teens, rarely make these thing up. And people who have molested often lie. Sadly.
144
Really surprised at the number of moms who intend to tell their sons to, in essence, never trust a woman. I'm telling mine to tell the truth even when it's hard, avoid out-of-control people and situations, be respectful, and keep his hands to himself. Oh, and VOTE.
34
I agree with Melissa Spenser - if Kavanaugh had said he didn’t remember (he does like beer a lot!) but he isn’t that person now and apologized for what Dr. Ford has gone through, I’d think he was more qualified for the job. As it is, I agree with former Justice Stevens - he’s unfit. And I’m gobsmacked that anyone (especially a woman) could’ve watched Dr. Ford’s testimony and think she made it up. How many men have been wrongly accused compared with women who’ve been abused? If we teach our sons that it’s not cool to overindulge in drinking or drugging and it is expected that women be treat with respect in all circumstances, they will be less likely to find themselves accused of mistreating women.
56
It's truly surprising to me how many women seem to be on the side of defending Kavanaugh and not really believing or comprehending Dr. Ford's viewpoint. It makes me concerned about how many women don't feel enough power or autonomy to realize that aggressive male behavior does not have to be tolerated. That's very sad to me.
48
It’s also very presumptive, and stereotyping, of you to believe women feel this way because they feel disempowered. Maybe they feel the way they do for the reasons they stated.
Thank you for the opportunity to hear what women from other walks of life think. I am invariably surprised.
Several mothers placed the blame for sexual assault on their daughters, e.g., "My daughter will learn to have respect for the rule of law and to not falsely accuse someone of deeds."
Some women believe women should never publicly talk about or report sexual assault. It is, for instance, "doing anything for power."
Conservative women found the exercise of free speech and peaceful protest unacceptable. Are they anti-abortion? If so, do they feel that way about anti-abortion protestors?
I disagree with those views. All the same, I was prepared to accept the results of a proper FBI investigation.
All available evidence indicates that Mr. Trump and the Republicans did, indeed, believe Dr. Blasey. That, for instance, is why the president himself called for a proper FBI investigation.
We now know that the White House lawyers shut down the proper investigation. They told the president that a proper investigation would almost certainly disqualify Mr. Kavanaugh.
So in the end the hearing and the investigation were just what the Republicans wanted them to be--a cover up.
The Republicans just don't care much about sexual assault. They think they only represent men. They damaged our faith and confidence in the Supreme Court.
As they themselves said: "We're going to plow right through." "Ram it home." "Shove it down their throats." It felt like another assault.
45
It's sad how many of the pro-Kavanaugh women apparently mistook this for a trial. Sad because I believe a lot of people got stuck in that rut. "Innocent until proven guilty" was never a principle at stake here. No one was being sent to prison, just being denied a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. I don't understand why they act as though he were entitled to the seat, so that not to get it was to "ruin his life." Both sexes perpetuate patriarchy.
176
@Alexandra
Their taking it as a 'trial' and the 'innocent until proven guilty' is more proof of their being a Fox viewer rather than being mistaken. They're simply parroting Hannity et al soundbites. I doubt many of them even watched Dr Ford's harrowing testimony. I don't know how anyone, especially a woman, could be so vilely dismissive of her testimony.
2
It's somewhat distressing to see so many women convinced that Kavanaugh was smeared. The full effect of the republicans' sham investigation by the FBI is coming into clearer focus. First, it got Kavanaugh a lifetime seat on the bench, by excluding any voices that were telling a story that contradicted his (and there were many who knew him back then, which speaks not to youthful indiscretion, but to perjury). Second, the evidence is not there now for anyone to judge the merits of the case, because Trump and Grassley neutered the FBI's investigation. That's how Trump has been able to exploit this (and Dr. Blasey's trauma) for purposes of influencing the midterms.
Dishonest to the core, but politically successful, I must admit.
27
I am voting for better representation. The republicans have not represented people as much as they represent their own interests. The FBI investigation did not include interrogation of the main characters. The 5 minutes periods was not a proper interrogation. Kavanaugh’s act was an eye opening moment into why he should have stepped away from the Supreme Court. Hiring 4 female clerks does not make him a better man.
45
“If I were advising a son, I would tell him to avoid like the plague any woman who identifies with people who will do literally anything for power, because she cannot be trusted to treat you with fairness and honesty.
If I were advising a daughter, I would tell her not to be like them. Don’t play the victim. Don’t lie for attention and money and power. Be fair-minded and honest and decent.”
So deeply troubling. If anyone ever needs evidence of how extensively males are favoured by some segments of society, look right here.
143
@Tracy Interesting how women will throw other women under the bus and not give them a break. Self hatred? Are they saying something about themselves?
8
@Tracy
How ironic that her advise to her daughter directly is applicable to Kavanaugh: I would tell her not to be like them. Don’t play the victim. Don’t lie for attention and money and power. Be fair-minded and honest and decent.
I feel SO sorry for this woman's daughter.
1
One lesson I learned is that it is much better to report misdeeds when they happen than waiting for 35 years. Another lesson I learned is that things have gotten much better for similarly situated victims than they were 35 years ago - what was then a misdemeanor with a one-year statue of limitations is now a felony with no statue of limitations. Whatever your take on the allegations, the timing of the allegations, and the handling of the information by people entrusted with the information, you cannot argue that things haven't changed for the better in 35 years.
2
I am surprised by the lack of diversity in perspectives AND women that are highlighted in this piece. How many white women did you need here?
(And I am one- but you overwhelmingly over represented us and I seriously doubt that others didn’t have thing to say about this based on the Twitter feed that posed this question!)
22
"Her Lesson-Vote!"
-Lisa Sharon Harper
Both sides of the Kavanaugh vote are expressed in these comments, all valid in their own minds.
Lisa said it best, vote. No matter your party affiliation if you don't vote, you have no right to complain. And voting is one of the best ways to demonstrate to your sons and daughters that civic engagement is one of the best ways to effect change in our Democracy.
5
I don’t like the politics behind this or the Merrick Garland situation. That being said, I have a really hard time understanding how a woman, especially an educated woman, can support this candidate, given his behavior and his attitude towards women. Even if he did not sexually assault, there are enough incidents to show he does not fully appreciate women and treat them equally. Plus, it was obvious in his last time answering questions that he was not being fully honest in his answers. I wonder why...
48
@Peter It's well know in sexual assault trials and even domestic violence trials that women on juries are often harsher on the female victims than the male perpetrators so to some degree, this column supports that. Women tend to judge women more, whether it's their appearance or their behavior or their morals, etc. rather than the facts on the ground.
(Hence, I have to say I am somewhat biased too in that I, a woman, often prefer the company of men over women. )
1
Wow. Really not any rational responses from the pro-Kavanaugh women. Not one. Let's hope if their daughters are raped, they'll arrange to have witnesses. Ditto for their sons. To the Catholics, congratulations on your predator priests. You'll note that many men were so traumatized they didn't share their stories for decades.
609
And thus the inability to have rational discourse among people of differing political views, or to recognize that even those you disagree with have valid points, continues to the detriment of us all.
@winchestereast ... and just to belabor the point (because nobody seems to really get it): There was barely any mention of that double standard of believability between women and men throughout the Kavanaugh debacle.
But women know all about double standards. And they vote.
12
I agree with your assessment, and I appreciate how this article presents a broad selection of reactions. Other commenters grow puzzled by the majorities of white voters, men and women, backing Trump and Kavanaugh. Here we can see what women are saying on both sides, without anonymity.
A lot of responses dodge the lack of accountability and female vulnerability with shallow arguments. For example, she should have reported in 1982. If Dr. Ford reported in 1982 it’s not clear anything good would have resulted. It’s still hard, 36 years later. It’s sobering, even dispiriting, the more things change, the more they stay the same, but another woman noted voting is critical.
Most on the Kavanaugh side bought some version of Trump’s narrative. Dr. Ford is a lying political hack, out to hurt the prospects of men everywhere. Protect your sons from the Democratic machine, keep them from partying with unscrupulous women. They ignore the what, 19 accusations against Trump who claims he never drinks alcohol. It should be plain that voting Republican or not voting, helps these men at the expense of everyone else.
But the controversy also reveals how gender isn’t enough, all principles fall to ambition in this government. Senator Collins gave a lot of women cover but she didn’t offer anything real to survivors and women. To change the future, principled women need to organize, run for office, vote and get votes. I hope they do, we need leaders that believe women and believe in them.
13