Any negative comments would obviously appear cruel and unsympathetic. However, I believe that what we have here is cause and effect. Over the years taxi drivers have been very independent, and by that I mean they were and are very particular as to where they would take you. Another situation is that many times it’s almost impossible to get a taxi, and if they stop we’re asked our destination only to be refused. Just recently I walked uptown on Sixth Avenue, with no taxi for eight blocks. I finally took the bus . And whatever you do, don’t ever think you can get a taxi during a shift change; and, asking the passenger how to get to a destination is inexcusable. I don’t believe I need to go on. New York City taxi drivers were not offering the intended service which left openings for others to fill.
7
Who benefits from all the advertisers who use yellow taxis as billboards and put those awful backseat TVs for commercials in our faces? Are the drivers not getting any of those ad dollars? Hhmm.
If anything, it's also a lot of advertisers who don't want to see yellow taxis go away. You'll never see an ad for a "gentlemen's club" on top of an Uber.
1
Please consider using the language "died by suicide." This language conveys understanding that suicide is the result of a serious interpersonal struggle often including the experience of sudden loss. Research suggests that in a suicidal crisis, the mind becomes unable to maintain the kind of meaningful thought that can lead to purposeful coping. Construing the enormity of this struggle as a "crime" only further alienates us from all hope of achieving the kind of empathy needed to be of help to our Loved Ones in crisis.
Unfortunate situation for many drivers. The price of NYC medallions was incredible (as well as ridiculous). In walks Lyft and Uber and people want to save money. That is the game with the younger and older populations. These people who purchased medallions are stuck as are those people who got stuck with mortgages with houses that sunk in value. It is called stress and everyone since early day farmers has had to learn to live with it. As do most people in jobs today except tenured education professionals and gov't workers who do not live in reality.
2
I would walk through the soles of my feet before taking a cab, but had to take a taxi a few times in New York while schlepping my portfolio around wearing a wool suit in summer. Midway through the ride the driver looked up and said I wasn’t from there. I asked how he knew and he said because I had manners.
As for the taxi industry, it’s no different from independent bookstores vanishing after Barnes & Nobles and Borders, and now the big box stores’ struggle in the age of Amazon. The trick is reinventing yourself and adapting to change but the drivers want a handout.
It’s no different in Spain when the construction boom goes bust workers cry foul and blame the government for they don’t have the skill to move laterally in the job market.
3
I certainly would be happy if more yellow cab drivers would pick me and my wife up when they see my wife near a collapsed transporter chair ready for me to heave it in there trunk , Handicapped folks still get the "I didn't see them" pass by. Those that do stop I will always give an extra generous tip.
8
The ugliness in these comments, the contempt for ordinary working people, the viciousness toward those who bought into a government monopoly and were abandoned speak to the decline of our society. We once had something called common ground. We were all in it together. Now it’s every dog-eat-dog for himself. This entire comments section is a horrific statement of what the Republican Party has done to the United States of America. If everybody lives in fear of economic failure, this is what happens. If people know longer feel secure that they will have food on their table and a roof over their heads, this is what happens. Here it is in one comments section: the decline and fall of the United States of America. May she rest in peace.
14
@ADN
i thank you
from the bottom of my heart for posting these words. I am sickened by the massive self-absorption and clueless, entitled privilege of these people. I feel ashamed to even call myself a fellow ny times reader.
7
I use yellow cabs, and I tip generously, and I feel for their plight, but there was a time when I could not even get into the cab since the front seat was pushed all the way back and there’s was absolutely no room to get your feet into the cab. I’m 5’10 and thin. That has been somewhat alleviated but the cabs still stink like a locker room, the name tags are purposely hidden behind thick yellow plastic and often the driver is not the one on the name plate. They are disgusting. I’m glad for the Uber gang. At least if I move to Brooklyn I won’t be stranded. Sorry.
8
First of all, this is incredibly, incredibly sad.
But the solution to this problem is not to return to the truly backward, absurd, exploitative taxi system that produced it in the first place! Especially when any sane person knows that what has replaced it is far, far better for everyone except the handful of beleaguered cab drivers.
It's unfortunate: Many of them paid a lot of money to join a government-protected cartel. When the cartel crumbled, their membership in it became meaningless. Our solution should not be to return to the cartel system!
6
Capitalism is what it is. There is competition now and when there's competition you either clean up your act and offer better service, better prices or go under. That's the way business is done. Just because you had free reign over a section of business for many years doesn't mean you own it. Transportation has built a better mousetrap. If you can't lick 'em, join 'em.
4
I want to sympathize with the taxi drivers (medallion owners), but ... Uber & Lyft created a better business model. I hesitated at first, but when traveling in another city, Lyft makes it so easy. You know the price before you commit to the ride, payment is already taken care of - no hassling with cash or trying to figure a tip on the fly. Clean cars. No waiting in the rain, because you know exactly when your ride will come to get you.
NYC should have taken action long ago, when Uber/Lyft first started invading the transportation market. The huge cost of medallions and the forced scarcity made NYC ripe for the picking by the new gig driving apps.
13
Are Uber and Lyft vehicles inspected by the city? Can they drive with a ripped seat? I thought Lyft an Uber drivers use their own vehicles?
3
TLC needs an overhaul.
Why isn’t there an app to call a yellow cab? One was rolled out a few years ago to compete with Uber but didn’t work at all.
Why isn’t there a way to rate my taxi driver like Uber? While I haven’t been refused service by a taxi like some other commenters, many driver have been extremely rude. Many driver have headsets on and are having their own conversations throughout a trip.
Why doesn’t the TLC provide more recourse to bad experiences? One driver took me in the wrong direction and when confronted, made up various excuses and then blamed me. He refused to give me a receipt so I couldn’t complain to TLC.
The structure of the taxi business is so outdated, no amount of bailout money can turn their business around. They need to get with the new program.
6
Having lived in NYC for most of my life, and having used the taxis, I have to say I sympathize with the drivers, but I’ll never willingly try to use one again! I’ve been left stranded by I don’t know how many drivers, “I’m finishing my shift”(at any hour of the day or night!); “my garage is the opposite direction to Brooklyn, I can’t take you there”... or merely yammering away in some other language, shaking head and looking dazed and confused when asked if they speak English!
By preference, I now use Uber or Lyft. My rides are not rejected, I don’t get a runaround, and I don’t have to feel obligated to over tip! If the drivers who are feeling the crunch, I feel they have themselves and each other to blame! If you only want to drive your own ethnic group, don’t figure that a medallion will give you that freedom! If you want to help perpetuate middle eastern feuds, a medallion might not be the most efficient way to achieve that. The TLC isn’t very helpful, their method for dealing with difficulties like this is slow and inefficient and ineffectual. Again, Uber and/or Lyft aren’t the problem- it’s the current yellow cab drivers and their attitudes!
13
I feel badly for the taxi drivers. The NYC taxi service has always been terrible. I am sorry, but life changes and there is a new kid in town..Uber.
6
I feel for them but I had terrible experiences with cab drivers because I was a dark skinned black woman. I would see drivers turn on their out of service light when they passed me then turn it off to pick up a non black person further up the street. Many times I would have to get a lighter skinned friend to hail a taxi on my behalf because otherwise they wouldn’t stop. This just doesn’t happen with rideshare services and I don’t really want to go back to that type of dehumanizing daily experience.
24
I recently returned from a visit to NYC with my disabled son. He was in a collapsible wheelchair that takes mere seconds to be folded and put in a trunk. We were turned down by taxi drivers repeatedly because of the wheelchair. They rolled up the window and sped off so quickly that I couldn't get their information to file a complaint. We probably used Lyft 10 times and the wheelchair was accepted all 10 times. Taxis are discriminatory against handicapped people. Lyft appreciated my business. and were well-tipped for it. I don't feel sorry for taxi drivers because they offered us poor service and broke the law.
22
@WL
To get a taxi that uses a ramp for wheelchairs just dial 311 or "Accessible Dispatch" and a yellow taxi will come and tell you who and when and at what time they arrive for your call.
I use this all winter ,the drivers as an incentive to pick you up get $10 plus the cab owners gets paid by our city 4 thousand dollars a year for having that ramp and pick up service.
The horror is that the dispatchers are terrible uninformed and can be nasty and short with you, also in a heavy rain or light snow usually no one will pick you up .
1
it sounds like this medallion system is the problem by locking taxi drivers into a lifetime of debt! uber and lyft drivers can drive with no money down. rather than capping uber and lyft, which can give drivers financial stability for NO MONEY DOWN, we should really be capping the price at which people can buy medallions so that they stop feeling so hopeless that they contemplate suicide! forgive their debt after X number of years working as a taxi driver and allow them to retire.
5
I will never ride in one of these ride hailing cars - you dont know the punk who may be inexperienced or may be on drugs or may be suffering handover from the night before.
Ride hailing cabs should allow cab drivers to drive for them as well, would that not be a solution- city cab drives having the option of picking up a fare or picking up a ride-share fare. The city should do more since it sold the medallions on the premise that it controls the transportation policies which at that time promises a favorable set of conditions, hence justifying its prices. As it sets the rules and policies for tranaportation, the city now has a duty to recalibrate the transportation policies that is more equitable to alleviate hardship.
4
Uber/Lyft is not the cause of these taxi drivers' crippling woes: the absurd taxi-medallion system has. In an ideal world, medallion drivers are not crushed by hundreds of thousands of dollars in medallion-payoff debt--because medallions would never have been the million-dollar currency that they were. A million-dollar medallion valuation was only valid under particular cultural, regulatory, and technological circumstances. No need to be nostalgic about outmoded transportation models: the taxi-medallion-as-asset mania is really no different than Bitcoin-mania or tulip-mania. Times change.
5
The risk was paying so much for an uncertain future it is sad. the city should do something for some relief at least. Being an Uber driver and lift driver is a terrible deal from a business side as well. you take on the capital expenses, Insurance, gas, wear and tear. Uber is a great business model not as good of a deal as drivers claim they are getting. Their sale is be an entrepreneur but you get all the heavy expenses.
4
Is this not indentured servitude?
“He often drives a long stretch of Manhattan, from Harlem to Wall Street, looking in vain for passengers.” Have they reconsidered their stance on illegally refusing to drive passengers to Brooklyn? I probably had 50 cabbies refuse to drive me to Brooklyn between 2004 and 2014, and a yellow cab sighting in Bay Ridge is still tantamount to seeing a unicorn.
15
@Michael Cummings.
I’m sorry, but you seem to be making this stuff up. I go to Brooklyn about once a week and I’ve never, in decades, had a cab driver turn me down. Maybe I’m just lucky. But I don’t think so.
4
I'm curious. People who ride the yellow cabs. How much do you tip?
I for one always tip about ⅓ the fare.
One other comment, could the Taxis use the ride haul apps?
New York cabs are in their position by their own hand.
4
@Tedster.
Sorry, that’s not true. We call that a lie these days. Yellow cab drivers bought into a deal the government made and then the government broke the deal. How extraordinarily ugly and reprehensible of you to say otherwise.
6
Please get medical treatment. Depression from stress is very common.
2
The medallions seem worth about as much as a Trump university degree.
6
Listen, the medallion was an investment, and a poor one as it turns out. Were there any guarantees with the medallion contract. Probably not.
Should everyone be reimbursed for a poor investment?
The world changes and there are winners and losers. I feel terrible for those that made a bad investment but as I always tell my workers that have an “exclusive”,
you need to treat your business as if competition is always present. The cab drivers did not, and therefore a need and service was needed that they did not fill.
That’s capitalism and progress all tidied up in one bundle.
You could be in Russia... oh ...wait...there’s UBER and others there too!
And the cabs run UBER and non-UBER, and it’s 10Xs more expensive if you hail the same cab without calling UBER.
Some will never learn!
6
@Pcsprt.
I’m sorry, you’re wrong. The deal for a medallion was dependent on the guarantee that nobody could drive a taxi in New York without one. That was the bargain. Then the city broke it. But of course out there in Arizona it’s about capitalism and progress. To heck with the working man, he got what was coming to him by believing in a deal the government made. The rest of us were stupid enough to believe the deal they gave us. Social Security. Pay in and you’ll get it back. Now? That deal is being broken, too. Oh, those dumb people who believed that Social Security would be there for them. How stupid of them. Yeah, in the age of Trump anybody who believes in their government — cabdrivers and the rest of us — deserve what they get. Let me know how “capitalism and progress” work out for you when your Medicare and Social Security are worthless.
6
Uber is not a taxi service. It is more analogous to the car services that operate legally throughout the city. Taxis retain their monopoly on street hails. No contracts, implied or otherwise, have been broken.
1
There should be a fee/tax assessed on every Uber/Lyft ride. This would be used to pay the medallion owners the difference between what the medallion was worth pre-Uber/Lyft and what it’s worth at the time of payment. As a practical matter, bonds should be issued for this bailout and the fees would be assessed until the bonds are paid off.
2
In the 1950's, would you have recommended that a fee be assessed on every airline ticket to compensate the railroads and transatlantic liner operators for their losses due to the growing popularity of air travel? Perhaps everyone who buys a toy on Amazon should pay a tax that would make the shareholders and creditors of Toys R Us whole?
No one is owed an unchanging world.
4
You analogies are not applicable. The difference in this situation is that taxi drivers purchase medallions with the understanding that they were buying a fixed portion of the ability to charge people for driving them around the city. That’s what they were buying. Then, these new entities came in and circumvented those regulations. The taxi medallion owners paid for something that was then taken away from them without compensation.
Think of it this way: You pay a large sum of money for the rights to sell widgets to the city. Somebody else then comes in and starts selling widgets to the city in violation of your agreement. The value of your agreement is diluted, if not worthless. And the granter of the license is clearly in violation of their side of the contract, which stipulated that they would let you be the exclusive seller.
4
The taxi drivers have what they bought: the exclusive right to pick up street hails. And, that's a monopoly that they still have. They were never granted the exclusive right to transport passengers for hire (hence the number of car services that have operated in NYC for years). Has technology dramatically simplified the process of booking a ride, making it less of a hassle? Sure it has. But, we shouldn't be locked into the world that existed in 1937.
One reason taxi drivers are being driven into the ground is due to the ever higher NYC taxes that are levied for every ride. That amount is taken into accont when a passenger payas the overall cost of the ride is to be considered. So the driver pays the tax, often.
We cannot expect to be generous when a ten or fifteen block ride comes to $10 (in traffic, i grant you, but still, traffic is a constant, and I can walk that in ten or fifteen minutes. Or call Uber or Via for a fixed fee.)
3
I am not a fan of technology eradicating whole segments of the economy but Uber and Lyft are to be celebrated.
I’m not even from NY and every taxi cab experience I have ever had across the country has been abysmal . No industry deserves to be plowed under and never heard from again more than the taxi industry. Truly sorry for your loss and pain as a driver but good riddance to taxi cabs.
7
What the cab drivers forgot was that they were/are service providers. Cab drivers have no one to blame but themselves for providing poor service. Since they had no competition, they could get away with it. Not anymore. Thank you Lyft, Uber, Via and Juno for understanding what New Yorkers need.
10
As a user of New York taxi cabs over the years, I find it difficult to muster up a lot of sympathy for a government-sanctioned monopoly that for years smothered any hope of competition and generally treated passengers as commodities rather than people.
7
@camper.
Are you a New Yorker? I doubt it since you don’t seem to have an understanding of what happened here, making your comment callous and ill-considered. I don’t have any sympathy for government-sanctioned monopolies either — like the pharmaceutical industry, for example, which is exempt from foreign competition. Which is exempt from prices negotiated by the government for government programs. Now let’s look at taxi drivers. Lacking sympathy for a government monopoly, I have a lot of sympathy for drivers who were sold medallions at high prices by the city and others with the promise that the market would remain regulated. It didn’t. That’s a swindle. The City of New York wiped out decades of savings for ordinary taxi drivers who paid for those medallions with bank loans. So the banks make out like crazy and the taxi drivers get nailed. The city could have fixed this in any number of ways. It didn’t even try. Thousands of drivers have been sentenced to massive losses and despair because nobody cares about them. It’s a symptom of everything that’s wrong with this country at this singular moment in history. To heck with the little guy. Let them get screwed. Who cares?The oligarchy is doing just fine. Shame on the City and shame on you.
7
Yes, it’s hard...but it’s competition! They are being squeezed because they refused to serve big swaths of the public. Now they’re being overrun by advances in technology. I’m an African American man and I use UBER exclusively!
1
@ADN
'Nuff said.
1
Simple facts: taxis are much less convenient and much more expensive than Uber. That is going to win. So why don’t cab drivers have the option to do either/or at any given time? I mean, they’re in a car and they have a cell phone.
3
Uber and Lyft lose money on every ride. Investors make up the difference, betting that big money will drive small businesses into the ground.
Consumers who participate in this are just pawns in someone else's game. Consumers get a slightly less expensive service. But on the larger scale, society pays a price in greater inequity.
9
When the medallion became a commodity was the time to act,the only reason to pay a million was the expectation it was going to 1 and a half, it could never be funded by driving a cab,even without Uber 200,000 seems a realistic price and certainly not almost worthless
3
After seeing all of the articles chronicling the demise of the yellow cab industry in New York, this take on the mental health of the drivers was a refreshing read on an issue that has been overlooked during this fiasco.
As a 7-year driver of a yellow cab who does *not* own my vehicle (I lease 4 nights a week), I can only imagine what the driver-owners have had to endure the last few years. Yes, many were unprofesional, unkept, uninformed, unfriendly, and refused to cross a bridge or tunnel to take someone home but I can vouch that the vast majority of us take our jobs seriously as for most of us, it’s our only source of income and livelihood that we have.
The real fault, once again, lies with the city of New York - for allowing unchecked growth of the TNC’s (Uber, Lyft, etc), keeping the playing field between them and the yellows, green cabs, and black cars / car services uneven, and failing to act sooner to remedy the situation when the writing, and data, were *clearly* on the wall. 6 suicides were 6 too many as all of those, and the rise of depressed drivers, falls at the feet of the government that did not keep it’s promise to protect the investments in time and money for those who gave their lives to serve the riding public.
In spite the downturn of driver morale (including mine) I still offer my best when at work, without refusals or rebuttals, with the faith that somehow, pieces such as this will lead to a turnaround and resolution...
http://gothamchronicles.net
12
@Pat
Maybe you should try your hand at writing on the side. Your comment reads as an experienced writer wrote it.
How is a taxi medallion like a coal mine? Answer : new technologies come along which undermine their economic value. Is society responsible for mitigating the loss of value to the corporations or those individuals who have invested their time and assets? This is the fault line of our society today.
In hindsight how could anyone possibly believe a taxi medallion would retain it's inflated value over time at any point after rotary dial phones were supplanted by push buttons!
A place like Manhattan needs to have any ride for hire vehicle be it a taxi , a Uber , a Lyft logged into a system that monitors load and demand. That has to be done by a quasi governmental entity that has sufficient capitol to execute a valid solution. Only x numbers of logged vehicles allowed. This essentially requires a medallion type of deal for all. Those who already have medallions can log into the system and transport customers for free (based on investment , individual criterion), Uber etc needs to add the time based medallion fee into the fare. This will end the congestion, offer some compensation to the medallion drives described above and MAGA.
2
I suppose that a large percentage of rides are taken by tourists. Many of these tourists come from communities across the country where taxi hailing is never ever done. My husband and I recently were in downtown Chicago and tired of walking; our preference was taxi rather than Uber as we knew taxi drivers are financially struggling. We wondered how to properly notify a taxi we want a ride. Should we just raise our hand (as seen in movies) or go to a certain area? My point: taxi owners should lobby the city to educate tourists through signs or other ways how / where to hail a cab.
1
Is there a way to celebrate their knowledge of the city by taking driving tours of the city hosted by taxi drivers? Could that potentially create an alternate source of income?
7
I wish....maybe Karachi or Cairo or Adis Ababa but I have had to give directions in the past if it is anywhere towards uptown.
Opinions and sympathies will vary depending on whether one lives in Manhattan or the boroughs.
In 1992 we stood outside Lincoln Center trying to get a cab home to Brooklyn at 11PM. Public transportation would have taken us 90 minutes. By car, maybe 30. Yellow taxis were streaming down the street, at least 5-6 stopped, we climbed in, gave our address and were refused service. Some lied and said they were off-duty. Some just said "I don't do Brooklyn." Some said "Get out!" followed by a stream of threats and curses when we objected.
This was intimidating enough when I was with friends or my husband. It was downright frightening when I was alone and trying to insist that the law said he had to take me home and the answer was "Then I'll know where you live" as he covered his ID with his hand. Evenings out in the city were either torture or exorbitantly expensive with garage charges for bringing our car in to work in the morning and having to pay for a full day.
Recently I was being treated for breast cancer on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and UBER was my salvation. Knowing that the car would be right outside the hospital when I finished my treatment, that there was no need to deal with cash or credit cards, that I never was stranded or refused service while not feeling well was wonderful.
My sympathies lie with the drivers who followed the rules and serviced the boroughs, and blame needs to be laid on the industry execs who tolerated the bad apples.
94
Yes indeed !
@Joanna Stasia NYC Way to many surly cab drivers used to pick up my wife from Hospital Row. Lyft and Uber came to the rescue.
Exactly. I have had dozens of yellow taxi drivers refuse my ride with aggression and contempt, leaving me in tears more than once. Just for trying to get a ride from 23rd St to Forest Hills? Unacceptable. After working late I was refused 3 taxis in a row and had to take the F indtead. Women need car service to have a safe ride home. I am disgusted I and other women had to put up with this for so long.
Many readers do not understand that previous to Uber and Lyft, taxis were treated as quasi public entities. While true that cabs are privately owned, they were operating in a heavily regulated environment.
That was not the case when Uber and Lyft entered a market.
In nearly every municipality, they just set up shop and operated illegally, sometimes for years. For example, in Seattle, they operated like this for close to two years. Throw in another year to conduct a study and it took nearly three years for the city to set up some kind of regulatory framework and even when they did, existing cab entities were still more heavily regulated than Uber and Lyft.
In other words, you have two providers operating illegally and building up market share, while still heavily regulating what would be their competition.
Next. both companies promoted themselves as transportation logistics based on their apps, but that is not how they built their fleet. As demand grew, both companies made agreements with banks so new drivers can take out high interest loans to buy the cars you are driving in.
Then there is the fee both charged per each trip. In the beginning, to attract drivers, they charged 5%, but once their fleet reached market saturation, they raised it to 25%.
Even the pricing for a fare is uneven. Cabs are still regulated.
There are other issues, but these owners and drivers are not responsible for how they enter a market and deserve compensation for subsidizing them.
29
@TE This is all true but the writing was on the wall for at least 10 years that this was all coming. Both city gov't and taxi companies were asleep at the wheel and could have acted.
1
Sad stories. But a perfect example of why the government should not be disrupting market forces. The market would have sorted this out without medallions. The government monopoly falsely jacked up the price. And now, a better business model comes along and the only so,union is to disrupt the market more, or let this rough spot work it's way out. The free market works, as long as the big elephant doesn't squelch part of it. We owe these medallion owners nothing more than we owe anyone who lost money in any market, other than a promise not to interfere any more.
19
@Ny Surgeon
a better business model comes along? you call exploiting drivers a better business model? you know nothing about this business.
why don't we let anyone become a surgeon and let them charge less than the market rate?
you'll be the first one screaming for regulation.
3
@Ny Surgeon This is almost too funny. A NYC Surgeon whose profession can only exist because of government regulation, including high barriers against foreign medical graduates.
5
@Eben Espinoza
i welcome you to have surgery by any foreign-trained surgeon you wish. There is a reason people of means flock to NY for operations.
1
Its nothing to commit suicide about. A similar thing happened to my father 30 years ago, long before Uber. My Father had just about paid his Medallion off, when a con artist stole it from him, a Bernie Madoff type, after all that work his money was gone, so what did he do, at the age of 60 he went back to work, driving a 10 hour shift behind the steering wheel of another mans cab, my father was never a worrier, he just wasn't predisposed to it, he put the blame on himself for trusting the wrong man. Everybody is different, in 1929, when the stock market crashed , there were those who jumped out the window and those who went back to work. Uber is here, its not going anywhere, people like it, the yellow cabs have to up their game and make people prefer them more than Uber. Life goes on.
23
Hey NYT, the use of "commit suicide" is outdated. The more accepted way to describe a death in this way is "died by suicide". The word "commit" is associated with a crime. Death by suicide is really no different than death by heart disease.
5
@Micaela Suicide is a choice. Heart disease generally is not.
Suicide is an action that one performs. Perhaps we can think of a better word than "commit" to describe someone performing that action, but to pretend that a person whose cause of death is suicide is the same as someone who randomly drops dead due to a medical condition they cannot control is ludicrous.
@Sam Rosenberg Suicide generally results from a mental health condition, which is not a choice. Heart disease is a "choice" for many given their predilection for smoking, high fat diets, etc. Genetics, of course, does play a part in all diseases.
1
#Timesup
No more abusing people trying to get a ride home or around the city, Cry me a river.
9
@ Hellen?
I’ve never been abused by a cab driver. In more than 25 years rarely has a driver been less than courteous and knowledgeable. I once had a driver drive 15 miles out of his way to return an iPad I left in his car. Anything I’ve lost in an Uber, on the other hand, somehow never turns up. Cry you a river? I would find it hard to cry for you if you were hit by a cab. So go on being nasty and angry. That seem to be the preferred way of living these days. Whatever you do, don’t think about the thousands of lives that have been destroyed by a fraud perpetrated by the City of New York. You wouldn’t want to trouble yourself with the problems of other people. Oh gosh, I see you were just hit by that cab. Karma. Darn.
2
Times change, some new technology comes and some die. Think of rejecting cars because it would put buggy makers and horse breeders out of business. That’s capitalism. That’s the American way. I’m sorry for those that can’t adapt but artificially propping up a failing business is bad for everyone.
3
@Biffnyc.
The city started a monopoly. It promised the participants it would stay that way. The city, without the least concern for the lives they were destroying, backed out of the deal. That has nothing to do with the strength of capitalism. It have to do with the nastiness of capitalism untempered by concern for ordinary human beings. When capitalism is reinventing itself (“creative destruction”) at the expense of Fortune 500 CEOs, they get rewarded by the government one way or another, including something called a bailout. When ordinary people are nailed, they get nothing. Do you see any irony here? In the Depression the rich jumped out of windows and now cabdrivers kill themselves. That’s the world we live in. You must be extremely happy in the Trumpian Golden Age of legitimized thievery. The age when people can’t “adapt” when their Social Security and Medicare is cut. Bravo! Capitalism triumphs again. But shame on you for your Trumpist, Milton Friedman-esque casual coldness and snottiness. Shame on you for not noticing, and not caring about, what capitalism does untempered by concern for the common man. Funny thing, though. The fate of the cabdrivers can befall of us if the oligarchy wants it that way. (As your creepy Mr. Kavanaugh said, what goes around comes around.) Let me know in five or six years how unfettered capitalism is working for you.
3
Thiss medallion business seems to a form of indentured servitude
7
In NYC, taxi drivers were rude, their cars filthy, and their driving downright scary. Uber was a welcome alternative to taxis, which had a chokehold on NYers for far too long
5
@MissyR.
Ah, we hear the voice from Westport, Connecticut. Thank you for clarifying what it looks like from the other side of the great human divide. No, Missy, cabs were not always filthy. No, the driving was fine because they were practiced, knowledgeable drivers. I’ve been riding them for 30 years. But I live here. Maybe on your occasional foray to the underworld from Martha Stewart suburbia, to work or see a show or grab a dinner at Bernardin, you had a rude cab driver. The seat wasn’t spotless. That’s a perfect reason to have contempt for ordinary people whose lives are being destroyed by the failure of the city of New York to limit the damage from the monopoly it created. Well, meanwhile, next time you’re out shopping at Bedford Square please do say hi to Martha if she’s in town and remind her that the Mercedes dealer is running a great sale this month. At least you won’t see any cabdrivers there.
2
Uber and Lyft treat their drivers like dirt. I'll always prefer a taxi over either of those hideous companies.
5
I hate to let science get in the way of a food story, but the suicide rate for middle aged men indicates that six suicides is statically normal for 51,000 people licensed to drive taxis in New York City. The suicide rate for middle aged men in the US is 20 per 100,000 so six in a group of 51,000 is low.
2
What a sad outcome! Too bad his family couldn’t take action before
The system is broken and destroying lives.
If taxis were run like London (where drivers all know where they are going), I would have no problem supporting them. The issue is the service was always terrible and still is.
As a white professional women this is my experience. Minorities often have far worse experiences.
Taxis
1. They refuse to drive to outer boroughs or even upper neighborhoods of Manhattan. This is illegal and I have dozens of times been told to "call the cops" by the driver as he laughed and sped away.
2. They don't use GPS and refuse to, they ask YOU how to get there and drive around getting lost on your dime.
3. They are filthy and uncomfortable, no AC, awful odors.
4. No way to report or avoid awful drivers. "Call the cops" as if they have time for this nonsense.
Uber
1. You will only be picked up by someone who accepts your destination.
2. Every Uber driver uses GPS, you will not get lost and will take the most efficient route.
3. Cars are comfortable and always climate controlled. Even the most bare bones Uber is better than the cleanest taxi I have been in.
4. Rate your driver so others can avoid problem drivers and support good drivers.
Also I have had 2-3 female taxi drivers in my entire life and nearly half of Uber drivers are women! More women drivers please!
78
@CEl
Unless Uber has changed, drivers are not informed of the destination before they accept the ride, and Uber punishes drivers for cancelling rides.
Drivers are told they have a choice of where to drive, but in reality they do not.
1
I could not agree more. Two weeks ago I reluctantly took a cab to JFK. The cab breaks down in the middle of Queens, about half-way to JFK. I pay the driver $20 as a gesture of good faith, knowing they are going through a difficult time. The driver starts to argue with me, demanding I pay 80% of the fare. I am now in jeopardy of missing my flight and who do I call to get me to the airport?... a Lyft, should have hailed a Lyft from the start.
8
@CEI.
The least you could do is get your facts straight. If you want to make moral judgments, know what the heck you’re talking about. Making one generalization after the other is not a form of argument.
1. You’ve been reading bizarre propaganda. I have never, ever, in 30 years, had a cab driver refuse to go to Brooklyn, Queens, or the Bronx.
2. I’ve been in yellow cabs lately where drivers had Google maps and asked for the address to put it in. Your generalization about yellow cab drivers is exactly that — a stupid generalization.
3. If it doesn’t have AC, get out and get another cab. I’ve had to beg Uber drivers to turn the AC up when it was 85 and muggy.
Uber:
1. They don’t know your destiination when they pick you up. They find out when you get in. That you are wrong about this fact says a lot about everything else you’ve said. That is, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
2. Maybe you ride Uber X all the time. I’ve been in Ubers so decrepit I wonder if they’re going to fall apart before I get there.
3. Arguing about the percentage of women drivers strikes me as idiotic. That’s hardly the issue here.
The issue is, the City of New York started a monopoly and made promises to those who bought medallions. It reneged. So let’s blame those swindled by the government and let’s pretend that Uber drivers aren’t being shafted by the company every day.
After all, we know that in the age of Trump all that matters is your comfort.
5
Taxi and limousine commission is responsible all lost lifes. their policies are punish hard working immigrants cab drivers, take hard earn money from their pockets. Last month I received yield to pedestrian ticket from Tlc enforcement officer near Grand Central station 5pm rush hour fine is 400$ and 3 points.Last year almost paid 3000 $ fine plus lawyer fees Every complaint gets extortion mail every complaint punished guilty or not every dispute passenger starts (I will report you to Tlc)
instead of offering free vegetables or fruits to drivers reward hard working honest people
8
@Forsa Complaints are overturned by TLC bureaucrats. Look in the mirror, taxi driver. Provide good clean service, that's all we asked. You failed. Stop blaming the world.
1
@Forsa You're complaining that you received a ticket for endangering a person or many people's lives! I'm glad more drivers should be ticketed for unsafe driving.
Whatever is happening to the taxi industry, the taxi owners and the medallion owners is a proper and just consequence for all their past and present sins.
The racist practices of refusing to pick up black riders deserves punishment.
The horrible practice of refusing to take riders to the outer boroughs, deserves punishment.
The terrible user experience of making riders stand in inclement weather for up to half an hour trying to fight other riders to flag a cab, deserves punishment.
The tremendous congestion that taxis cause while passengers and cabbies process payment, make change etc, while the taxi remains in a travel lane blocking traffic, deserves punishment.
The proper punishment is for all persons in the taxi medallion industry to see their businesses fail, declare bankruptcy and join another industry, like tech-ride-sharing.
5
"Marlow Pierre, a taxi driver who leases his medallion, said the best solution would be to further restrict Uber."
No thanks, Mr. Pierre. We, the public, have suffered long enough under your dominance. the comments section makes clear the vast majority of us prefer Uber, Lyft and companies that actually care about their customers' experience.
4
@Justin,
Well that’s the joke of the year. Uber cares about my experience? They don’t care about my experience of listening to Uber drivers talk regularly of how royally they are getting swindled by Uber. It’s gotten to the point where I’ll take a cab anytime if I can find one rather than listen to Uber’s drivers describe how many hours they need to put in to make a living. Oh yes, Uber is a great company. The kind of company that stole millions of dollars from their drivers’ tips. The kind of company that, for a long time, had no insurance for passengers. Oh sure, they cared about us a lot. What planet are you living on? But then who cares about those little misdemeanors? You get a cheap ride and that’s all that matters.
1
That is what happens when an industry who kept riders captive to exorbitant prices, rude and horrible service, racial profiling for decades, due to a monopoly and artificially supply limits, is liberated by competition.
Riders were offered a choice for the first time in decades, and they have voted with their wallets. They don't want anything to do with taxis anymore.
The taxi industry in New York needs to die its natural death.
Medallion owners that under water need to declare bankruptcy, dump their cars and start driving for Uber and Lyft.
Any attempt to artificially preserve taxis will simply prolong their agony. Riders want freedom to select their ride, rate the drivers, share rides, press a button and have a car materialize, have automated billing, etc.
4
The term "commit suicide" is outdated and value-ridden, and places stigma on the individual and their family. It has its roots from the idea that killing oneself was a sin that one "commits". The preferred terms in the suicide literature is "die by suicide" or "kill oneself".
Not sure who the pc language is supposed to placate. The dead? They clearly don’t care. As a suicide survivor, each and every term applied turns my stomach, bcs suicide is an act of violence. Whether intended or not. For the one person saved from pain, scores of others are devastated by it.
Suicide is a committing, that’s for sure.
4
I refuse to use Uber or Lyft. Taxi drivers, some of us still have your backs.
3
Ordinarily I support workers (I'm a former union staff member). However, having experienced living in an "outer" borough for 14 years, and seen how outrageously racist taxi drivers have been for decades, I have no sympathy for the yellow taxi industry; they brought this on themselves.
11
Loss of a career and crushing debt are triggers for suicidal depression. Show some empathy for the dead. Thousands of people are dying by suicide every year from Depression in America.
4
If ever there was an industry which deserves to die it would be the Yellow Cabs of New York City. For over 70 years they held a monopoly and gouged us on price while providing absolutely abysmal service. The cars were filthy. The drivers rude, drove recklessly, entirely lacking in knowledge regarding destinations, rarely offering help to the elderly or those who needed help with their bags. Surge pricing was actually rampant. In extreme demand, New Years, Holidays, Halloween, snow storms, severe rain etc they would simply turn off their hail lights and gouge customers on price. Of course, companies like Medallion Financial and others who aggregated medallions thrived by simply bribing city officials and flooding the swamp with campaign contributions which of course caused medallion prices over those 70 years to outperform, by a wide margin, stocks, bonds even gold! Now they are looking for a bailout?! Good riddance to this sham industry. Ride sharing is where it's at. We are not going back
8
Puzzled by some of the math here. The article mentions Lal Singh, and says that "Mr. Singh, who is 62, owes about $6,200 a month on the taxi medallion he bought in 2000."
In 2000, medallions were selling at or below $200,000. With a 20 year loan, and even assuming a 10% interest rate (real rates are more like 4-5%), his payment would be about $2k/month, and his medallion would be almost paid off. For him to have a payment as high as he does, means he must have borrowed $600-800k against his medallion, meaning that he's already made a $400-600k profit on the medallion.
"Now Mr. Hent, who is 62 and owes about $130,000 on his medallion, is pushing the city to assist taxi drivers."
Mr. Hent could sell his medallion tomorrow and walk away with $50-100k in cash after paying off his loan, so he's definitely not under water.
Seems like some folks were relying on ever-increasing medallion prices as their retirement plan. That's kind of like putting your entire 401(k) in a single speculative stock.
10
i am a long time taxi customer in nyc and other major cities but i must say in recent years it is more and more common for drivers to not know anything about the cities in which they work. in fact it is now the norm for the driver to ask me to use my phone to navigate for them. i can see why people prefer uber/lyft.
5
I won't use Uber or Lyft. I just refuse. I know what it's like for children when the family income disappears.
3
@Patricia Do you refuse to ride in elevators without operators and abstain from online newspapers too?
4
is there any way to claim the lost value of the medallion on income tax? Would presumably have to be over many years, but would spread the burden among city, state, and federal gov't
4
I am sorry, but the TLC got them into this situation. Let's make a list of the various times and conditions when it was impossible to get a Yellow Cab before Uber and Lyft: if you were black; if you wanted to go to the outer boroughs (except for airports); when it was raining; at the shift change; anywhere outside of Manhattan; the list goes on and on. Car service is 1,000% better now than it was 10 years ago. I am sure that elevator operators, milk men and ice delivery guys felt distress and insecurity when their careers vanished too, but that's not reason enough to go back to a business model which was overpriced, inefficient and discriminatory.
32
Well said!
4
In June I was in New York for a few days and rode with three different cabbies, each of whom was boiling with rage at presence and incompetence of Uber, Lyft etc. horn-in drivers, double-parked delivery trucks, the medallion-racket, debt, exhaustion, no exit, disappointment. Two of them drove like the furies were under the floorboards, the third was clench-toothed fatalistic. I hope never to visit NYC again.
6
@dressmaker
There's always the subway.
2
So, you won't come back because you didn't like the taxis? Is that the only reason? Next time, try Uber.
@dressmaker
Would have been nice if we were told where you have it so much better.
There are established precedents analogous to medallion matters.
Before the Federal government deregulated the trucking industry, truckers had to have a 'certificate of convenience and necessity' to operate across state lines in service to the public.
These 'authorities' were issued by the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) after a long regulatory proceeding. ICC certificates authorized hauling certain items and specified the geographical area where a trucker could operate.
ICC Certificates of Authority were valuable and had real value in the trucking business.
But deregulation allowed anyone to be a trucker; certificates were no longer needed. Existing certifications became worthless. As part of deregulation, Congress set a scheme to ease the financial pain of truckers who often had millions of dollars in certificates that were rendered worthless by government fiat.
IMO the ICC model of providing financial restoration to affected parties should be used by NYC to make medallion owners financially whole since it was NYC who allowed the taxi industry to be deregulated.
I don't understood the need for a medallion system. I see it as an arbitrary scheme to grant someone a license to provide a service. That should have been done by the city for a nominal fee, as a routine business license like a barber, i.e., pass a test, prove insurance coverage and renew on a periodic schedule. Easy stuff. But NYC made it crazy, and NYC needs to fix it.
14
Unlike hairdressing, their were too many billion$ to be made from the taxi industry.
1
I have sympathy for the drivers who are struggling, but at the same time, Lyft and Uber wouldn't be as popular as they are, if NYC Taxi drivers hadn't spent DECADES establishing their reputation for not caring about passengers. The number of times in High School that I had a taxi driver lock the doors and speed away when I told him I wanted to go to Brooklyn, is several factors beyond acceptable. Trying to find a cab when you're already in Brooklyn is even more difficult.
I've had to flag down cabs for black friends, who could watch a dozen empty cabs drive past them as if they weren't standing there trying to flag one down. I've dealt with cab drivers who intentionally take the most inefficient route to run up the meter, whose cabs smell like the inside of a dead animal, who are completely unable to navigate the streets of the city.
At the end of the day, this comes down to quality of service. I use Lyft because the quality of service is several times higher than even the best cab I've ever ridden in. Cab drivers only have themselves to blame for this situation.
41
Completely agree. Service is the issue. I grew up in south London and the famous Black Cabs (who are also now complaining about the superior Uber/Lyft product) would never take you south of the river no matter if you were black or white. They were utterly useless for a huge chunk of Londoners.
Now I live on Portland: Uber or Lyft will have me or my wife home safely before I’ve even made contact with any of our lousy cab companies let alone been picked up by some truculent driver in a clapped out ex-cop car stinking of gas and BO.
Side note—the medallion system is a disgraceful, exploitative money grab by NYC.
3
who drive Uber or Lyft cars ? answer is former yellow cab drivers!
1
I for one rejoice that the tyranny of the yellow cab is over. For decades I have loathed having to deal with taxis. Gouging during subway strikes, won't take you to the airport because they're "at the end of their shift", circuitous routes to pad the meter, refusal to take credit cards so they could pocket the cash ("the machine is broken"), the radios, the incense, and of course the reliable standby when confronted with a complaint, "I don't speak English". I have not set foot in a taxi in NYC since Uber arrived, and I never will again, if I can help it. I'm sorry that these old guys can't adjust to their monopoly being taken away. (and what's their solution? Restrict Uber and give us our monopoly back!) THANK YOU Uber and Lyft!
35
@Mascalzone
I do not disagree with your comments. But, isn't 'Surge pricing' similar to gouging.
@Mascalzone
Let me get this straight. You're fan of Uber and Lyft, and you're accusing yellow cabs of gouging passengers? I can only shake my head.
5
@Jess Both will gouge us with surge prices, but at least Uber/Lyft will actually take you to a boroough that's not Manhattan.
1
Not rocket science. Medallions were worth money because they represented an exclusive license to operate taxicabs in NYC. The city revoked that agreement by allowing Uber and Lyft to operate (a decision I agree with but that's beside the point). The city should offer to buy back medallions at the price paid by the current owner. The city broke a contract, and those affected should be compensated. This is not a case of people making a poor investment or another case of people being displaced by technology. The city changed the rules and the victims should be compensated.
55
The city changes rules all the time. Every time zoning is changed, for instance, someone most likely gains or loses either in terms of cash or quality of life
At the very most, the city owes the ORIGINAL purchaser of a medallions a refund of the price paid to the city, offset by any profits. Anyone who bought the medallion after that made a bet (that the regulations were static) that turned out to be wrong.
1
@Barry Short: I don't believe your argument holds water on two counts: First, a person why buys a property is aware that zoning can be changed, and second, when zoning is changed, a public hearing is required, which did not occur in the city's decision to abrogate the contract implied by taxi medallions. To me, this is more like a case in which the federal government might suddenly declare that it would no longer pay social security to retirees who have paid into the system. This would be unjust. I also don't understand your suggestion that the original owners be compensated. The city did not abrogate its responsibility while these people held the medallions. I suspect these people made money. The problem is that the city did not enforce the terms of an implied contract. It is those who have been harmed who should be compensated.
Just to clear something up. Medallion owners paid for the exclusive right to pick people up on the street. That hasn't changed. Taxis have always existed alongside car services (like Carmel, etc) which you can summon in advance. It's just that the Uber/Lyft car services have made it much easier and more convenient.
17
@max I don't think most people commenting understand this distinction.
3
This is an example of an investment gone wrong. How is this special? I sympathize with the folks who are now stuck with the worthless medallion. I can find hundreds of such cases everywhere. I have myself lost money on investments, but I found a full time job to support myself. I've had to live without healthcare coverage and live with friends/campsites for sometime.. while my cousin committed suicide when his business went sour. Left his wife and two toddlers to fend for themselves.
11
@George
Driving a cab is there job. And one the drivers are spending a lot of time at.
The elephant in the room is the inability of our citizens to engage in rational discussion about any emotionally charged subject.
Critical Thinking Skills were identified by the Texas Board of Education as undesirable as it allows people to think rationally allowing people to change their minds when evidence contradicting assertions are revealed. This is the basis of human advancement in all the arts, humanities and sciences. This is how we learn and grow and a vast segment of our society is incapable of thinking critically or/and forming evidence backed opinions. They are not open and willing to change their minds with new information though they may pretend to be. Capitalism is one such topic. So many have an automatic belief that capitalism is best when there is a plethora of evidence against this assertion including the harm caused to these taxi drivers. Greed is not good and capitalism as currently practiced, especially in the U.S., enshrines greed as good. It's one pointed focus of profit above every other consideration pushing to deregulate itself at every turn, pretending that is "freedom" is flawed. No one is "free" to cause harm to others. It's not good as it misidentifies humans as "resources" from which to extract work, not as individual mysteries to be nurtured, respected and supported to reach their full potential so they may give their best to our shared community of humankind. We can prevent harm and nourish rather than promote harm and kill.
9
It would be nice if we could make whole everyone that loses their primary income due to technology. But that number is in the multiple millions. Where do you start or stop?
5
As a long time New Yorker, I only use cabs (except when I use the subway) and always will.
12
@Margaret Spoken as someone who clearly lives on the Upper East Side (Sutton Place?), Upper West Side (but not above 96th street...) or in Midtown by the Guthrie or on Second Avenue from the 20's to the 30's. And clearly written by someone who likely has trouble downloading and installing an app to an iPhone or Droid and has to get help with "all those buttons". The flood has already washed that floor clean.
1
The NYT has run several articles on suicides among medallion-owning cab drivers in NYC, yet each article has failed to explain what the purpose of a medallion is. How was this overlooked?
The medallion system was put in place to limit the number of vehicles for hire on city streets. Technology did not cause medallions to plummet in value. Rather, the city's decision to stop enforcing laws against operating gypsy cabs (which is essentially what Uber and Lyft are) caused the value of medallions to plummet.
For those of you (especially those in places outside NYC) who don't understand what a medallion is, and are about to dismissively pass judgment on these cab drivers, consider the following thought experiment: How would you feel if suddenly your life savings, enumerated in dollars, became worthless overnight because the government decided to stop enforcing laws against counterfeiting? Would you feel that this was fair, and a just punishment for you as someone who wasn't an early adapter of counterfeiting technology to print your own money, as all of your neighbors had done?
36
@Middleman MD I don't live in NYC but for what I understand both Uber and Lyft operate legally there. Therefore they are not gypsy cabs as you call them. And I've read in comments here and in travel forums that the reason why people prefer them is because their services is better and they don't refuse people of color, among others.
9
@Middleman MD
Thank you for one of the best analogies I have read that explains the situation to those who don't live in and around the city. I feel like pasting this explanation on every clueless and cruel comment.
2
NYC needs to start buying back and retiring medallions.
13
how much Uber ride cost than?
1
I typically use taxis rather than Uber or Lyft. However, the typical taxi in NYC is dirty, the trunk not suitable for baggage and often quite stinky.
The City was sucker punched by Lyft & Uber, now not caring for the taxi business which it failed to properly regulate.
Yes, the City should restrict all Lyft & Uber use for several years then allow a long term shift to competitive alternatives.
That would be a proper way to take care of the taxi driver/medallion owners.
6
@GLO First you say it's terrible service, then pretend to care about their well-being.
I do hope you help out at a homeless shelter. That willingness to help where you know the help will be appreciated in the moment, but ignored by nightfall is important.
In short, my NYC tax dollars are already too high to pay for some people's bad investments. Their best move is to immediately declare bankruptcy, and go at the City for damages when they lose. Or, if the cabbies is fortunate enough to have family back in Bangladesh, head home for a year. I would think that living conditions there with zero debt would be comparable to here with $500,000 debt.
If there is a big vote by the City Council or the TLC Agency to pay for this with taxpayer dollars, then New Yorkers all over will go ape, and assure that those elected officials lose their jobs. They already know this, so guess what? It's not happening.
They should just go to bankruptcy court and be done with it. Suicide over a cab. No reason at all. It's not like the Earth is about to be destroyed by a meteorite or there's a nuclear war and now everything's irradiated. Just drop the debt, and be done with it.
3
Not to belittle their situation, but why are male dominated careers so "coddled"...coal miners, cab drivers, steel workers, farmers ...etc.
Displaced telephone operators didn't turn to suicide.
15
@JORMO I'm not mental heath professional but once taking a college class we had a talk with police detectives who explained that suicide rates where much higher in men (at least back then) because they couldn't handle "failure" (i.e. bankruptcy, losing their job, etc.). Their self esteem is based in how much they make or how successful they are career-wise. And when they lose that they don't know how to live with it.
He also explained that when depressed women usually think about their children and their family and usually don't commit suicide to avoid causing them pain. But men only think about their own pain.
9
@JORMO
How do you know that? That's quite a sweeping statement not backed up by any data.
Oh, and your intent was absolutely to belittle their situation, as well as their gender.
2
@Sara Andrea I do believe that men may choose to die by suicide for the reasons you mention - but as far as I know both men and women may *attempt* suicide in comparable numbers. However, men tend to be more "successful" at suicide due to the more lethal means they tend to use (guns, for example, which are usually deadly). Women may attempt suicide in equal numbers, but are less "successful" in their attempt because they tend to utilize methods that are less reliable (such as pills, etc.). I am not an expert, and may be wrong, but from my own reading I believe there is often a difference in the method used and subsequent outcome for men and women, which makes it erroneously appear that far more men attempt suicide than women.
Why should there a bailout? Who forced them to go into debt to get a taxi medallion?
9
Good and important article! However, there is important information missing here, namely whether these drivers bought their medallion directly from the city (at auction) or from a previous owner. The vast majority of taxi medallion purchases were (are?) from prior owners, who often made hundreds of thousands in profit from their sale. This information should be included when discussing debt relief or bailouts!
I have a lot of sympathy for the drivers who either lease their cab day by day or are owner-operators; I have little or no sympathy for fleet operators and speculators who bought dozens or hundreds of licenses. Their current difficulties are part of the risk of doing business, especially when that business is based on the expectation of ever-rising prices for medallions.
20
While these hardships are terrible Uber is not the problem. The taxi industry gave up on customer service a long time ago. Their previous monopoly business is failing due to competition that provides the same function (getting from point a to point b) with superior service. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve ridden in dirty cabs with “broken” credit card readers. Uber takes all forms of cards, payment is fast (instantaneous) an efficient, and the drivers cars are clean. I have a record of my trips for easy expensing when I need it. Some drivers even offer you bottled water and a phone charger. I’d gladly take a taxi if they would adopt some of the features of their completion. The solution to the problem is not more legislation...it’s for the taxi industry to get competitive and put out an equal or better service.
26
@Jason L Part of the problem is that taxi drivers are saddled with the large payments directly (owner-operators) or indirectly on medallions (which the article discussed). Also, Uber and similar services also squeeze their drivers
2
@Jason L
Don't forget the obnoxious Taxi TV, which you can only turn off if you hit the button just right.
4
@nevsky. I agree with your comments. medallions are a financial burden and Uber squeezes their drivers. But what does that have to do with the difference in service? In my opinion this is why Taxi drivers are suffering a loss of business. I take Uber exclusively because the service is so much better and I would gladly pay more for it. For example, when Uber implemented easy tipping right on the App I took advantage of it to tip my drivers on every ride and do to this day. Unlike my experience is most taxi’s Uber drivers deserve a tip. Uber cars are clean. Drivers are friendly. And the app ensures they they know where to go and how to get there. Based on other comments it appears that most people choose Uber for service related reasons...not cost. If the taxi wants to stem the slide of business they have a solution at the ready: clean you car. Develop and app that makes payment processing easy. Use GPS, etc.
This is a terribly depressing story about an industry which is getting decimated and will eventually die like telephone operators and typist in typing pools. Politicians can only offer band-aid solutions for temporary relief but the long term future of the taxi is bleak. This is the price that some pay for the technological progress that we humans make. This is a worldwide phenomena.
7
@Theni Workers in buggy whip factories didn't get a bailout when they lost their jobs because of automobiles. As you so succinctly said, this is the price that some pay for the technological progress that we humans make. Our failing postal service is a classic example.
I made more business trips to NYC than I can recall. Tons. Lots and lots of cabs. I started looking for alternatives because the drivers were speeding. I thought they would kill a pedestrian, or me .
14
if I make 28 $ an hour I go slow as I can .
Just another case where Millennials who supposedly care about the environment using services decimating the environment - all these Uber and Lyft cars, more air pollution, more traffic congestion, more wear and tear on our roads and independent contractors w/o decent pay, health insurance, pension plans so what, the CEOs of these companies can have great stock prices/shares... Maybe taxi services didn't keep up w/ the times, were not well taken care of, medallions too expensive, but really to say these rid apps are way better for the industry, don't think so....
6
@Louise Millennials? Seriously? I don't think so. People of all ages prefer uber and lyft. The real problem seems to be the exorbitant cost of the medallions and the drivers being trapped in overwhelming debt.
12
@Jffff If you google "uber use by age" you'll see that Statista has collected data on this. It's way more popular among the 16-24 year old cohort, and the rate drops precipitously as age increases.
But...disruption! Disruption is always good! Except when it isn't.
This is why governments regulate business, especially large-scale businesses such as Uber.
8
@W. Freen I prefer disruption to the small group of entitled taxi cab drivers and unions as opposed to the "disruption" all of us customers had to put up with for years at the hands of these taxi drivers...
1
All combined, I wonder what the actual number of dead from the big tech companies is, and I don't mean just from drone strikes.
6
Do know how many can drivers wouldn’t pick me up. Wouldn’t take me to Brooklyn. Wouldn’t take credit cards. A lot. If I invest in houses or education or clothes oe marriage or the stock market or taxi medallions. It’s all a risk and a choice
27
The medallions were supposed to give these taxi drivers exclusive access to a market. NYC has now given that same market away - for free- to Uber and Lyft drivers. The taxi drivers should not pay one penny to anyone for these worthless medallions. They should consider a lawsuit against the city for the harm this has caused them.
39
@Ellen Burleigh
The taxis have the exclusive right to pick up people on the street. That hasn't changed. There have always been car services which you can summon. Uber/Lyft have just made it a lot more convenient.
4
The city should make each Uber and Lyft car purchase a medallion.
15
It is clear from reading these posts that the NYT needs to run an article that explains the medallion system in NYC.
Many of the readers here are proposing solutions that privatize gains and socialize losses. Republicans would be so proud.
18
Look. I agree with so many here that say the city needs to step in and help fix this for the taxi drivers. There is no reason that New Yorkers should have to feel bad about supporting Uber/Lyft after decades of dirty, aggressive, smelly, uncomfortable taxi rides all having to be hailed out in the NYC elements... and oh yeah - anyone ever try to get a taxi at 5pm? It’s completely unacceptable that taxi shifts end at 5pm therefore half of New York can’t get a ride.
And don’t even get me started on what it’s like to try and catch a cab in bad weather with a child...
We all feel for the taxi drivers and I think the city is responsible for helping to fix this problem. The average New Yorker shouldn’t have to feel guilty that we don’t want to stand out in the cold wind waiting for a dirty, expensive cab anymore.
35
@June Don't forget the cabbies that will lock the doors and drive away if you say that you're leaving Manhattan, and the ones that just won't stop for a person of color. Makes it hard to feel too much sympathy for 'em.
1
I once hailed a cab for a black woman with two children. She had been trying for a while.
2
This is why people distrust the media and their one sided articles. Everything is being done to portray them in a sympathetic view and as victims. There is absolutely no balance to this article in addressing why people prefer Uber and Lyft.
16
Because that wasn't the subject of the article.
2
Just wanted to share that most of the Yellow Cab drivers enjoyed low cost city health insurance and were eligible for most of city benefits for years..and in avarage they are take home pay is lot higher than any minimum wage. worker who had to pay for health insurance and go very challenged situation, should also be bailed out...most of them paid very low income taxes because showes very high amount of expenses against there income and qualifies for free mediacid or low cost insurances wonder why nobody talks about that....they have eaten the ripes decades..now has to take the challenge callef life instead of blaming everybody else
5
I do not have a SmartPhone and I do not partake of this "sharing" economy. When I take a taxi, I tell the driver that I only take taxis and never use Uber or Lyft. It might perk them up a bit.
Didn't your mother teach you not to get into a car wish a stranger?
"4Average Joe" has it right. What does it say when people have to tap into their already-depreciating assets to eek out a little change that is going to be taxed as self-employment income (yes, Schedule C deductions help, but really!), leaving little left (again, the asset is depreciating; will the chump change pay for a new car?).
These things do not affect me. What DOES affect me is the interlopers from the *banlieus* who clog the roads, jam the bus stops, and make illegal turns because they do not know where they are going.
Germany has it right. Make Uber and Left illegal, and insist on proper regulation of fee-for-service drivers.
More at https://www.salon.com/2015/10/31/the_uber_economy_fks_us_all_how_permala...
8
Taxis are like paying $15 for a CD. We’ve all been there done that but the game has changed. Uber, Lyft, and Cabify are the new playing field.
10
@Hollis You need to talk to a few professional musicians! Yes, things change, but injustice is injustice. Taxi drivers who were forced to buy their medallions at insane prices now are expected to compete with drivers that don't need them. I don't know what you do for a living, but try to imagine yourself in a similar situation. And find some compassion for god's sake!
11
@Jonathan Handelsman artists are releasing more tracks which yield more streaming revenue and charging more for their tours, but no one is overpaying for CDs anymore and taxis are going the way of Tower Records because there's a better model. Uber and Cabify are new offerings better adapted to their environment by the pressure of competition and choice. Ride-hail vehicles differ widely from taxis because they're an evolution of the antiquated medallion system. The fury and vitriol is because taxi drivers know they're heading to obsolescence which doesn't equal entitlement.
1
These drivers need financial counseling in how to declare bankruptcy. They should not continue paying on loans for nearly worthless medallions. Lenders took risks when they lent the money and BK is how they are required to share that risk. It’s the American way.
15
"....not for large-scale owners like Michael Cohen, President Trump’s former lawyer who with his wife owned more than 30 medallions."
No. U.S. taxpayers will bail out Michael. After he files for bankruptcy, Sterling National Bank and Melrose Credit Union, which are shady banks that lent him the money, will take a dollar for dollar loss.
In America, crime pays because it's legal.
3
The first time I rode an Uber I noticed three things: the car didn't have television adverts blaring at me, there was no plexiglass blocking my view (and access to the AC), and the seats felt clean. Frankly, after that it was tough to go back to taking a taxi. I feel for these drivers, however. Isn't there a way to at least give them a break and lower the medallion costs (and mute the television)?
17
Just for recap: the NY taxi commission established and capped the number of medallions in the 1930s to raise taxi drivers’ incomes during the Great Recession. Having artificially limited supply, the value of these medallions steadily rose over time. Many of these taxi drivers bought medallions as speculative investments years ago, and watching prices rise to ~$1.3M about a decade ago, they believed they would retire rich. Then, Uber distrusted a stale, high cost industry with poor service, and the value of a medallion plummeted.
This is fundamentally a cautionary about diversifying your investments and not putting all your eggs in one basket, be that a taxi medallion, a house, or your company’s stock. I feel badly for the small time driver who is the final bag holder in a long line of speculators who bought lower and sold higher, but they took that (major) risk willingly and were riding high for many years. There also is a way out and a path to start over: bankruptcy. The NYC taxpayer has no business bailing out medallion owners, sorry.
20
Unfortunately taxi business in NY City is another boom gone bust story. This article is misleading, as NY City did not sell the medallions for $1Million directly to the drivers. That was the money folks paid in the secondary market to acquire a medallion, just like folks paid $300/share for pets.com during internet bubble.
The taxi drivers made a knowing but risky bet on the medallions by purchasing them for high prices and got caught by the shift in the market place. I am not sure why tax payers have to bail them out just like tax payers did not bail out people losing their shirt in the internet bubble or the crypto bubble. Similarly for the same tax drivers when their medallion price doubled did they offer to share their bounty with the tax payers? Of course not. Medallion investment was a speculative bet and with the possibility of appreciation comes the possibility of depreciation. What if one bought a house in 2006 and the value is still under water. Why not bail them out?
Bottomline is technology and market shifts crash landed the Taxi Medallion market bubble and those who bought at the tail end of it have lost money. While I feel fully sympathetic with their personal suffering, it is no different than any other investor who lost money.
20
Some of the most fulfilling conversations I've had thus far have been with taxi drivers, who, as someone with a disability, are vital forces in my life at points. It's always boggled my mind that anyone sees a driver as anonymous.
Often, especially when coming from abroad, taxi drivers have extraordinary stories to tell, and impressive credentials (several that I've known have Phd's) that simply don't tend to come up on the job.
Thank you for this important article. I hope we do something about this. I'm glad to know that at least these issues are being discussed more openly, a crucial start.
7
A little bit the taxicab medallion lenders caused this problem.
Medallions owners were enticed into taking 5-year loans with payments computed at 15-year rates. This meant that, after 5 years, the medallion owners who had hardly paid off the principal due on their medallions, were forced to re-finance.
Since medallions were going up in price the medallion owners were tempted to take more than what was necessary to repay principal and used the money to buy homes, finance education, and otherwise enhance their lifestyles. At every refinance the lender earned fees so refinancing was encouraged.
3
I don’t see it as a need for therapy; the drivers are depressed for a good reason. Crippling crushing debt with no way out leaves them viewing death as the only solution.
The question I have is can they walk away from the debt? Is it like a student loan which one can’t just get discharged with bankruptcy or could they just give up their medallion and eliminate the debt?
They had no way to foresee the rise of Uber and its ilk just as video store owners had no way to know how fast the market would change to Netflix and streaming videos. Taxi drivers are only the latest victims of our quickly changing society.
6
Ban, or significantly limit, Uber, at al. Haven't other cities done so? Protect the taxi drivers.
3
@Kerryman Yeah, because New Yorkers can't wait to go back to the days where it was impossible to get a taxi driver to leave Manhattan, and only 1 driver in 10 would stop to pick up a person of color.
1
Uber was permitted to decimate the taxi drivers because of our fascination with and subservience to the tech industry.
They are little more than robber barons - look for break-ups of Google, Uber, Apple, Facebook, etc.. coming soon.
6
The taxi industry was decimated because it wasn't meeting the needs of consumers. If taxis were doing a good job, Uber wouldn't have gotten a foothold.
20
Issues of retirement and not being able to afford a living is spreading to a bunch of industries through out NYC. This is not specific to Cabs.
In regards to cabs, there is a major reason why lyft,uber, and the likes took off. Maybe the Taxi industry should look at why people are refusing to take them over time. They have an app similar to Uber and Lyft, yet i've never seen anyone use it.
5
The city should charge Uber, Lyft etc commissions (a tax) which would be used to pay down the medallion's costs that the city sold with an implied value that they n o longer have due to the city's allowance of the ride sharing companies.
6
Now taxi drivers. We have a huge mental health crisis in this country. When are we going to get serious about the health of our people?
3
The city should , if not forgive these insanely high medallion debts, at least reduce them. I had no idea these drivers are paying thousands a month just to keep working. There should be a public campaign on behalf of them to make citizens aware that their cheap ride is damaging to these hard working people.
4
$6,200 a month for a taxi medallion? In what world is this just? It's no wonder these drivers are depressed.
20
@Georgia Lockwood
They knowingly and willingly colluded with what they thought was a monopoly. They made a bad investment, their choice.
7
The article says: "...the city was considering several measures to do that, including a partial bailout or a hardship fund for medallion owners who drive their taxis — not for large-scale owners like Michael Cohen, President Trump’s former lawyer who with his wife owned more than 30 medallions."
Any scheme that helps drivers pay off the loans on their medallions does help 'large-scale owners' or people similarly wealthy. They are the people who sold the medallions to the drivers. Loan repayments wind up in their pockets. I do not know if it is possible, but the only arrangement I can think of that would not benefit wealthy sellers of medallions is one in which those receiving loan payments are induced to lower the principal (and maybe the interest) owe by each driver.
Having said that, if the only way to lower the burden on drivers requires that the wealthy benefit as well, so be it. Lives are at stake.
4
I'm not from NY, so I'm not familiar with taxing a taxi there, but this system sounds completely insane and oppressive. The city charges hundreds of thousands of dollars to people to drive one taxi, but then allows uber drivers to compete with taxi drivers without having to invest the same amount of money. It sounds like the government is ripping off its own citizens.
12
The city receives little of that money. There is a limited number of city-issued medallions that are privately traded, kind of like carbon trading.
When NYC enlarged the number of medallions, it benefited from the high prices .. so maybe some relief is in order there. But, not for medallions that were originally issued 80 years agi.
4
I never understood how this medallion business works.
Why in NYC does a taxi driver have to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a taxi business.
Why is everything tied to money in this country.?
These guys need to be bailed out by the city which sold them the medallions at a ridiculous price.
7
@Eraven, without a medallion system, every Tom, Dick, Harry and Raj will put a meter in their cars and start picking up fares. In addition to driving down the cost of a ride, this causes taxi income to drop due to all of the competition. Cheaper rides also give riders an added incentive to ditch public transportation, which is not good for the city streets (as evidenced by the flood of Uber/Lyft/Via drivers at the moment). Capping the number of taxis on the streets helps to ensure that supply does not exceed demand and that prices of rides are high enough to provide living wages as well as encouraging riders to use the subway and bus.
2
@Ed
What you are saying is true but the cost of medallion to the tune of $1M is absurd and out of proportion something has to give. Finally unfortunately every Tom, Dick, Harry and Raj got their through Uber/ lift etc. something has to give
This medallion sounds like huge debt to poor people just trying to work and survive in NYC. Shame on the city for charging so much. The rise of ride share services was bound to happen when the demand was huge. I’ve been kicked out of cabs( after providing drop off location , BK) or the driver rolled down window, asked where I’m going and said No to Brooklyn and drove off. I’m having a hard time finding sympathy for drivers who purposefully passed on black faces on the street.
8
@Lindsey Wells, no, medallions are traded on the market just like real estate or any other commodity. It's all about supply and demand.
It would be nice to see an article where they reflect about how they brought this on themselves. I have never read an article where they admitted and tried to atone for all the black passengers they passed by, neighborhoods they refused to service and people left stranded by their actions. I never saw any special fund to address the mental anguish that caused or a special council that demanded they stop such actions. The market has spoken and the market didn't like their service.
45
@Hellen Really Helen? Just blame everyone for the actions of some? Punish them all? Enjoy their suicides?
3
@Maureen
It was a widespread problem and not just a few. They joined the monopoly that practiced such discrimination and never imagined it would end. It's like those antebellum festivals where some lament the loss of the "good old days" before the civil war. They still complain about what their families lost too.
1
Class action suit. Strike now while Cohen is in the hot seat.
4
If Cuomo's subways weren't such demeaning garbage the streets, crowded with people seeking somewhat dignified and decent conveyances, wouldn't be so crowded.
4
Get rid of the yellow taxi's and keep UBER, LYFT, & JUNO
6
One morning, years ago, when I lived in Manhattan, I took a cab from lower Manhattan to the Upper East Side. I had a friendly chat with the cabbie while we drove along the East Side Highway; he told me about his coming to America and finding work as a cabbie. The sparkling waters of the East River flashed between the Tall Ships participating in the July 4th celebration that year.
Then the conversation turned dark. It turned out that he'd become quite depressed over time; he spoke expansively about the reasons (none of which I can specifically recall). He said he was feeling suicidal; very suicidal, in fact. As I watched the East River, and thought about that, I began to feel pretty uncomfortable for him and for me. It would be so easy to use this very vehicle, right now, in a suicidal act. The urge sounded imminent.
Our destination was somewhere around Lenox Hill Hospital. I found myself telling him that he ought to seek help. I told him that he ought to drop me and go directly to the hospital which would be just around the corner and seek help immediately, that talking could help him get perspective so that he would not feel so alone. He considered that. We talked more; mostly I was trying to keep him engaged in hope. I watched the river and thought about suicidal impulses, and felt terribly vulnerable in his back seat. I did not want to become part of the tragedy.
As I reflect on that day now, I just wish I'd had the maturity to accompany him myself.
20
We did this to taxi drivers. And it is wrong. And cruel. If we don’t act immediately to buy back medallions at full price plus interest and lost opportunity costs, we are responsible for every additional suicide.
The solution is not to turn back time. Like coal, the taxi industry is on its way out. But these drivers waited for many years on waiting lists to purchase expensive medallions that have no intrinsic value. The medallion is a golden ticket to drive a taxi. Like paper money, the medallions had value only because supply was restricted.
Now, we’ve made a choice to embrace ride sharing. That ship has sailed. But this meant we were knowingly opening up the supply, and draining the medallions of their value. A buyback that accounts for interest and opportunity costs is the only ethical way to make good on our promises to these taxi drivers.
15
Most of those medallions were not purchased from the city. Why should taxpayers be on the hook because other people overspent?
4
@Sara Peters, what is the difference between buying a taxi medallion and buying stocks or real estate or any other business? During good times, surely the investment paid off. But then are we as a society responsible for bailing out bad investments when times are bad? Given the scourge of hunger and poverty in America as a whole, isn't this a bit lower on the totem pole of our societal obligations?
2
@Sara Peters "We" did this to them? Speak for yourself. I am not responsible for cab drivers who refuse to take passengers out of Manhattan. I am not responsible for cab drivers who refuse to pick up black New Yorkers. I am not responsible for cab drivers who take inefficient routes so they can pad the meter. I am not responsible for cab drivers whose cabs smell like the inside of a dead cat.
The quality of service in the NYC Taxi industry has been apysmal, for decades now. I take Lyft, because I can actually get a Lyft driver to pick me up in Brooklyn, or to take me to Brooklyn if I'm trying to get there.
Taxi drivers spent the first two decades of my experience dealing with them making it perfectly clear how little they value my patronage. So I choose to give it elsewhere.
2
Uber is not the problem, it's the cost of a medallion. Lower the price.
11
Yeah, THAT’S the problem. But merely digitizing an established industry to circumvent it’s laws and regulations on the basis of legal technicalities while undercutting the established industry with gobs venture capital money and no actually profitable business model is perfectly normal and perfectly healthy, right?
Come on people. It was fun when first started out, but this “disruption” thing needs some re-evaluation.
11
They need to do like Wall Street and file BK. They need lawyers not psychology
10
@as They need both.
4
Manhatten is no fun to visit, overrun with Uber and Lyft. They solved this problem three generations ago, with taxi medallions. The new economics, where everybody is a contract employee, where Amazon hires 250,000, and lays them off 6 weeks later, after Christmas. We are in control of what we do in our cities, towns, suburbs and countryside A livable wage, a limit on cars, a quick trip across town. Let's make Manhattan fun to visit again.
78
@4Average Joe
I feel horrible for the taxi drivers but in response to your comment I have to say that my last visit to New York was made so much better and less stressful by Uber. Before that, I found NY taxis incredibly intimidating and hard to hail. I try to take public transportation whenever possible but when you are not feeling well and have to get to the hotel ASAP, there's no substitute for a ride hailing service. Being able to get a ride via an app in a jiffy when one is sick or it's pouring outside made Manhattan actually a lot more fun for us to visit... Although I recognize environmental and other issues having to do with increased car traffic in the cities. Like Trump said - who knew this could be so complicated!
@4Average Joe Ah yes, the fun old days of it being impossible to get a taxi at the slightest hint of rain...
@4Average Joe Have you ever tried to hail a cab in Manhattan at 4 pm before Lyft and Uber? Tried it when it's raining?
If you don't like Manhattan, there are plenty of other places where you can call a cab and get lousy service. Thank God, we now have Lyft and Uber.
1
The "canary in the coal mine" analogy is apt, I think. This will play itself out over the next twenty years in many professions. Any articles in the "New-York Times" from back in Olde New York that talked about the demise of the blacksmith (or candle maker)?
9
Social justice and psychology need to come together in this situation. To suggest therapy or medication alone (I am a psychologist, I work with suicidal people) as an antidote is missing the boat.
Another commenter - Hugh from Oregon - to me is on the right track. There are systemic injustices, this article sites just another example. One way that some sectors of my profession continue to oppress people (vs liberate and empower them) is to "help" them "adjust" to what is outrageous, violating, or simply put - wrong. Yes for therapy; yes for antidepressants; but also, YES for changing the inequities creating poverty, homelessness, and the rest.
15
Just perhaps, we can recognize loosely regulated capitalism for what it is. There is no assurance that many can earn a livelihood that doesn't degrade or grind them into poverty. It is time for a change in the Constitution to include economic rights.
13
Ideal solution would be to integrate these drivers with the new technology. I don't know how much of this is feasible, but here's a thought: Sign a special agreement with Uber and Lyft where cab drivers are mandated to be shown as part of the Uber and Lyft's fleet, and can be called through these apps in addition to their cab business. Customers pay the standard Uber/Lyft rates, so from a rider's standpoint there'll be no change. In addition to the "driver" income from Uber/Lyft, these drivers may also get financial assistance from Uber/Lyft on their medallion loans, ideally determined by how much they used their cabs for Uber/Lyft rides.
16
@Nikre
No, these cab drivers have a history of discrimination and they will bring that to Uber and Lyft. That is the negative change they will bring and no one wants it. They created their own problems and deserve no bailout.
14
@Hellen I don't think people realize this. They especially discriminate if they have to go to the outer boroughs. It's the sole reason I won't use them anymore.
1
@Nikre
There's a way to do that right now - it's called "sign up with Uber."
1
In the absence of a plan to address the city's perfidy in enforcing the laws that were supposed to prevent medallions from becoming worthless, it is a sick joke to present this issue as one that will be resolved primarily by antidepressants, or legislation to pay for mental health care for drivers who have essentially lost their life savings or more.
The whole purpose of medallions was supposed to be to limit the number of cars for hire on the street. By purchasing medallions, these drivers played by the city's rules. There was no upset in technology that caused this crisis. Uber and Lyft, while operated through apps, aren't functionally different from the gypsy cabs that NYC used to prohibit in the 1980s and 1990s. The city betrayed drivers like the ones in this article by allowing the streets to be flooded with cars for hire that were never supposed to be allowed to be there in the first place.
While individuals may benefit from psychiatric treatment, suicide rates in the US have climbed as access to antidepressants has increased. Suicide results not just from depression but from a variety of other factors which antidepressants do little to mitigate. Google "Thomas Joiner suicide" for more on this. The study of suicide, and suicide prediction, are separate (albeit related) areas of investigation than those concerned with the treatment of depression:
https://www.newsweek.com/2013/05/22/why-suicide-has-become-epidemic-and-...
38
This is unfortunate, but a result of government creating a monopoly for their benefit. These individuals probably need help, perhaps declare bankruptcy and find a different position. They drive so truck driving is an opportunity that pays 85K per year some places where the cost of living is way less that NYC. We need truck drivers, not so much taxi drivers.
10
You are stuck in the past. Truck driving will be automated soon also. And most drivers do not even make close to your rosy projected figure (I have done their taxes for thirty years). It is also a hard, solitary job with the attendant health and alcohol problems. Trucking the most environmentally destructive way to move goods. Finally I am struck by your ludicrous oversimplification. Sure, a sixty your old Sikh is going to up and leave his family and community in NYC to move to a small town in Tennessee where immigrants are despised. As if.
3
@vulcanalex
there are 13,000 taxis in NYC and 65,000 uber cars, not including other similar services.
by your logic why doesn't the government outlaw the gypsy cabs and let those hundred thousand or so drivers get jobs driving a semi somewhere else in the usa?
your posts never make sense.
1
I think it's a good thing when an invention comes along to shake things up. That said, I am sorry for the taxi drivers caught in the middle. It's time taxis became independent like Uber and Lyft. Make them responsible for buying their own car without the extreme cost of a medallion. The taxis will be cleaner and better maintained. There's a huge difference in comfort and cleanliness between a hired car and a taxi.
8
You restrict yourself to only one borough (Manhattan) while the others service all boroughs and even Jersey and then you complain about how hard it is. And maybe you need to stop discriminating (I got tired of being passed by or asked where I was going before getting in) against hails which the others don't do. It's your continued antiquated approach to the business that's the problem.
47
@Mr. Slater
And maybe clean the back seat once in a while, not act like you are doing me a favor to take me where I want to go, not take the long way to rack up the fare, and not be on the phone with family the whole time.
3
I reiterate a point made by a previous poster on this meme of taxi driver suicide: the rate of suicide by cab drivers is actually below the national average. The 6 suicides are sad, like all suicides are, but they aren’t remarkable in any way. This is a fabricated storyline — no one is making a comparison here, just an emotional appeal defending a unionized monopoly angry that it isn’t getting its outsized profits anymore in exchange for bad service.
13
@Mike - Oh yeah, those rich elitist taxi drivers, with their mansions, Italian sports cars, and trophy wives....
10
You don’t need the trappings of luxury to make outsized profit given the task you are performing, Jim. When drivers are earning 30-40% over minimum wage with the same level of education as those making minimum wage, all while providing service that is worse than a private market competitor, they are overpaid. If they weren’t overpaid they wouldn’t have ponied up $1 mm (at times) for a medallion. I actually feel for these drivers, but the answer isn’t harming every consumer in the N.Y. area to help out guys who made bad investments. Provide medallion owners with some direct help if you’d like; don’t destroy the market for transportation with this government monopoly garbage. Are you also pining for the days of coal and No.6 fuel oil?
Depression progressing to suicide is one of the 10 leading causes of death among baby boomers. Worries about money is possibly a major cause of depression in the USA especially in the megacities or places where mental health care is inadequate. Small businesses have a challenge when large businesses decimate their business. In London, the cab drivers are protected and still thrive in the era of Uber, Ola and Lyft. Most of the younger generation prefer to use their smart phones to call a cab. Some still like to wave a cab but these gems are fewer now. RIP dead Taxi drivers and hope those depressed will not be one of them.
7
Taxi drivers are the coal miners of New York City; busting their hump in a dying profession, and struggling to stay above water; and it will only get worse as automation and AI advance. I don't have an answer, but I plenty of sympathy for all involved. Most Americans, even medium-upper middle class, live paycheck to paycheck; so don't for even one minute think that something like this can't happen to you. Be grateful for what you have, and empathetic to those who have hit the skids.
40
@Jim Everyone feels for these drivers but NYC Taxis are generally awful. The city will regret limiting Uber/Lyft vehicles as those services are how more and more of the middle-class travel around the city.
6
Lift the cap, take the bailout, and let everyone start fresh. Let the market dictate things on a FAIR playing ground
3
I never understood the concept of medallions. Where does the money go? Who is profiting from medallions? That said, I dated a taxi driver back in the 1980's. He worked nignts because he said he made more money. He split the cost of the medallion with a friend. Driving a cab is a hard job and a lousy job. Long hours and dangerous. When I take a cab I always over tip the driver.
30
With the high prices they charge and the many bad stories we hear about the taxi drivers driving people in circles just to raise the meters for their high fares you are reaping what you sow. Every bad deed comes back to all professions even the President. So treat people decently.
8
I have very little knowledge of American bankruptcy law except it seems harsh...student loans. Is it federal or state. I cancelled my cable so often have radio on in the background so have listened to infomercials on bankruptcy and something called consumer proposals. Is not bankruptcy an option for these folks?
5
@bcer: student loans are one of the very, very few things you cannot get rid of in bankruptcy.
Otherwise, US bankruptcy law is very generous and easy. (Hello Donald Trump!) You can cast off almost any debts -- personal or business -- and start over.
OF COURSE they can declare bankruptcy and many should -- they owe hundreds of thousands on worthless cab medallions. At least one guy is SEVENTY -- he needs to retire. (There is no benefit in postponing your SS past age 70.)
The business has changed, due to technology. I am sorry for those who lost their way of life. But nobody cried for me -- my husband -- or our entire region of the country (based on steel, auto, heavy manufacturing) when OUR jobs were outsourced to the third world and WE saw our incomes decline and our pensions lost.
1
An awful situation with no easy solution. You simply cannot impede technology, as people want it and will not be deterred. Medallion taxi service has just become obsolete to many. Uber service has improved the life of many citizens, who no longer have to stand in the rain fighting others for taxis, who then often refuse to drive you to other boroughs. Today, folks under 40 prefer living online.
The city needs to relieve the medallion debt. When the medallions were purchased from the city, there was an implied guarantee that the buyers would be protected, and that they would not be competing with services that were not regulated by the city, and under the same financial debt. The city did not cause this situation, and has tried to limit uber opportunities--but in my opinion they should not now keep the funds collected under the implied promise of no outside competition.
93
@Billy from Brooklyn You also have to look at the record of poor performance of the taxi industry. I grew up in NYC and knew that it was almost impossible to get a cab north of 96th st and even harder to get one to take you to an outer borough. Technology stepped in to fix this problem. I have converted to Uber and Lyft over taxis because of the better cars, easier use, and greater convenience.
I get that the value of Medallions sunk, but the sunk because the industry didn't keep up with the times.
24
@Billy from Brooklyn Uber and Lyft vehicles are all late model sedans. Always clean with a polite driver. And with actual working air-conditioning, imagine that. Many of my S.I. neighbors depend on Uber/Lyft for visits to Manhattan doctors and hospitals.
5
@Billy from Brooklyn Agree, but only partially. I am dead set against bailouts for holders of multiple medallions; otherwise, most "refunds" would go to those who were investors and speculators, not owner-drivers. Let's not spend our (tax payer) money so easily.
2
Medallion owners in distress should default on their loans allowing the finance companies to take the medallions, the collateral for the loans, thereby discharging the loans, and, if they want to stay in the taxi business, buy it or another one back at the current depressed prices.
Another very viable remedy is to go Chapter 7 Bankruptcy where they give up the medallion, the collateral for the loan and, again, buy it back, their debt having been fully discharged by the bankruptcy court.
If truth be told, many medallion owners put themselves into this situation by taking 5-year loans at 15-year amortization rates thereby necessitating refinance every 5 years where they took advantage of the increased value of their medallions and borrowed more money than they needed and used that money to buy homes, pay for children's education, or otherwise enhance their lifestyles.
Remember when medallions were touted to be "better than gold"?
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@MIKEinNYC
Declaring personal bankruptcy and then buying back the medallion at a lower price...
Hmmm - how exactly would that work? With a loan that is impossible to obtain because the applicant declared bankruptcy?
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@Nat
Once you file for bankruptcy your credit improves because you cannot do it again for 6 years plus, in the case of taxicab medallions, the lenders would have good and valuable collateral.
That's how that would work.
@MIKEinNYC In other words, the belief is that lenders will bet that medallions hit a bottom. I wouldn't .
The city should not only launch a taxi-hailing app, but also work to fix up the fleet of yellow and green cabs. One reason why Uber and Lyft are popular is that their cars often roomier and cleaner, with nicer upholstery, better leg room and working air-conditioning.
That being said, I have had some traditional taxi drivers clearly try and make the best of what they have, by adding makeshift fans to their backseats and generally being very polite. We should all return this courtesy.
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We need to support local businesses, including taxicabs. No more Uber for me .
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@Ilise Meryl Uber is not basically a local business? The driver is from some other area?
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@vulcanalex
uber and lyft are gypsy cabs. nothing more.
people use them for one reason.
they are to cheap to use taxis.
35 years in the business.
The debt these drivers put themselves into is crushing and the daily pressures to continually successfully finance it must be excruciating. Suicide can seem like the only way out. Taxi and Uber type services could provide life saving help by offering financial counseling upon hire or purchase of a medallion or other significant financial investment associated with this occupation. Included in that counseling could be mental health information and an employee assistance program for mental health issues. The EAP could offer support groups and some kind of check in service where the drivers have a counselor to connect with for even a brief phone call. There are probably many ways to support these drivers using a little imagination.
Suicide is about being separated from the main, from the spirit that nourishes and governs us. In a cutthroat capitalist system, to belong is to have money and to be alone and poor and failing is to be pushed outside the circle. That is deadly. Humans would rather die than be outcast.
Harry Harlow was the researcher at Wisconsin who made a living torturing primates. He researched depression by building large inverted, blackened out pyramids and putting primates into them. They were isolated, in emotional pain, and suffered greatly as they tried to escape and slid back down each time.
He was surprised to see that all emerged seriously depressed, not just the ones who went in without good parenting.
It is the same for all of us in this insane capitalist system. When we lose, we slide back down, and to survive, we modify our own brains not to feel, not to reach out and touch others. And we sicken and die.
My mother, her sister, and several others in my life took their own lives, I have seen it firsthand.
We don't need pills, we need to help and be helped to understand that we are not alone, we need to tear down the torture walls of economic isolation.
Vote wisely, and vote for those who see your pain and are willing to take on the big money.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
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@Hugh Massengill: by your logic, only poor unsuccessful kill themselves and they do it because they want material success & wealth.
But any shrink would tell you their offices are CHOCK FULL of rich, privileged people with fantastic jobs who STILL are suicidal.
Depression and suicidal ideation are not exclusive to any class or type of person, and only very rarely linked to finances or wealth.
Why doesn’t the city buy back some of the medallions? It would drive up the value of the remaining ones and reduce the number of yellow cabs competing for the same passengers. It could even be a reverse auction where those willing to sell back at the lowest price are purchased. Do 1-2% every year until the market is balanced.
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Uber doesn't require medallions to function. A medallion buyback would just reduce taxicab supply and increase demand for Uber.
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@Rob Chapman, um, because buying back medallions would put taxi drivers out of work, which is probably a worse outcome.
Many thoughts on this story but only one I feel I can do something about starting today. Going forward, I’m going to stop acting as though my taxi driver is invisible. I know there’s a window, ear buds in their ears, history, norms and an actual physical barrier but I’m doing to make a concerted effort to engage in a few niceties.
“Hi how are you? How’s your day going? Here is the address, please and thank you. Thank you I hope you have a wonderful day.”
I’m adding all those to my repertoire.... with some actual listening, smiling and authentic nodding thrown in for good measure. A generous tip.
Then you know what else I’m gong to do? I’m going to carry all those niceties with me out of that taxi and heap them on other people as well.
It won’t address mental health issues, pay disparity and other structural problems but it can’t hurt and may help.
Them.
And me.
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@Gwe Can you run for president in 2020? Please...
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@Gwe This is sweet & simply what the world needs.
@Gwe Your driver either won't understand you or wont hear you because he's on the phone. Don't waste your time.
I think they should move out of the city if they are so stressed. NYC is very hectic and I find I’m much happier in other places at times.
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@Paul Salerno but the problem is that they still owe thousands of dollars on their medallions and at this point I doubt they can find a buyer. Moving out will not solve their main problem.
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@Paul Salerno not everyone can afford to just pick up and leave a situation. Especially if they owe on their medallions, and are most likely immigrants with no family down in Retirement Land.
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@SCD: our society has a remedy for that.
If you owe far more than something is worth, and can never pay it off....you declare bankruptcy.
It's really that simple.
Taxi medallions are on the way to being worth zero.
The owners should declare bankruptcy and get rid of the debt.
Bankruptcy is fairly easy and today, it carries virtually no stigma.
Why is there no competing high quality App for Yellow Taxis? I would gladly take a Yellow Taxi if there was an easy convenient App. The city should spend those millions to develop and implement an App ASAP, as well as training for the drivers how to use it.
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The Hailo app serves exactly that function. I used to use it in DC, and then it ceased US operations. Believe it is UK based...
1
There are two apps to hail yellow cabs called Curb and Arro but they do not have the functionality of Uber’s app. During a recent stay I manually hailed yellow cabs for short trips with no luggage but when we needed a ride to La Guardia with a substantial amount of suitcases I used Uber because its app allowed me to specify a large vehicle, Curb and Arro do not. In all cases we had great rides with friendly drivers. I make a point of tipping yellow cab drivers generously in cash.
1
There is an app in NYC for yellow cabs, but cab drivers would rather pickup a fare off the street than have to pay the app a commission for each ride. As a result, the only time the cab drivers go online on the yellow cab app is when they are having a hard time finding fares on the street, which is traditionally off peak hours when nobody needs a cab anyway. This vicious cycle has resulted in cabs not being available on the app at busy times when riders need them, and no riders requesting rides on the app when the cab drivers are slow and decide to go online.
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And yet-- twice this past year a driver has returned cash to me when I gave him the wrong denomination. Each driver knocked on the window to gain my attention after I left the car. Both very honest men in possibly dire straits.
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@kp
How many cars did your cabbie block as he was stopped in the middle of the street waiting you to go back and forth paying, returning the bill, making change, etc?
How much does that add to congestion?
Had you been using Uber or Lyft, the payment would have been automatic, and there would be no possibility of you paying with the wrong denomination.
You'd never even touch your wallet.
And you'd have saved time for you and all the other drivers behind you.
Taxis are archaic. They need to die.
1
I feel for these guys. BUT: why should we / tax payers bail them out? These guys took a business risk based on assumptions that turned out to be flawed - but so do millions of other people. We are not bailing out failed restauranteurs or [insert any other entrepreneurial profession], and for good reason. I want my tax $ spent on improving vital infrastructure such as subways and not propping up the taxi industry.
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@Elisabeth
You know things in life never have to be either or......
Your tax dollars can go to address an inequity that the city created and many other things.
A little compassion with your money coffee, please
7
@Elisabeth
The assumptions they made weren't based on business models or technology. They were based on the city enforcing laws that limited the number of cars for hire on the street. The city reneged, and permits Uber and Lyft to flood the streets with vehicles without having to pay for a medallion, which is essentially a permit that allows a car to operate as a vehicle for hire. These cab drivers are people who played by the rules, rules which the city no longer enforces.
9
@Elisabeth the reason is because they bought a government granted monopoly in a regulated industry. Then Uber came in and broke the law and the government failed to enforce it, leaving the taxi drivers to suffer for government failure. For that reason the government is responsible. In fact the high amount of Uber drivers have slowed traffic to a craw making Taxi rides uneconomic and forcing us all into the Uber fixed ride system, rather than watch the meter tick, all while causing it to take longer to get anywhere.
So its not like having a failing restaurant at all.
3
Seems very unfair to require medallions that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet allow anyone to drive an Urber or Lyft. I can’t imagine how infuriating that must be for the city’s cabbies. The city needs to fix this - either return the medallion money to smaller operators or boot the apps.
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@Amber Burdsall The city actually succeeded this year in capping Uber, Lyft and others. The other thing is this: Medallions were an investment, and, like other investments, "past results are no guarantee of future results." That bejng said, I fully agree that app hailed car services need to pay their fair share, and NY city and state may want to look further into licensing fees and requirements.
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The city sold them the medallions, and now they’re worthless because of the city’s failure to effectively regulate the rise-sharing services (or provide a competitive service). The city can forgive at least part of their debt.
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@PSEThis is really the crux of the matter. The citiy sold them medallions at an incredibly high price with the promise of being able to make a living. Then the city failed to protect them. The city now allows anybody with a car to pick up passengers. Let’s not mince words - the city has a moral obligation to reimburse these drivers every cent they paid for those medallions.
No, I’m not a cab driver, I don’t even know any. I just know an injustice when I see one.
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@PSE
There are about 13,000 taxi medallions out there. They were originally sold by The City for $10 each. In the last few years The City sold a few hundred more for the going prices. That the medallions have been bid up is not The City's doing. It was the marketplace.
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@Gberger - I would go one step farther and ask if the city might even have a legal obligation here. Did the city violate their agreement by failing to regulate ride-sharing services? Maybe the answer is a class-action lawsuit that helps the drivers.
2
Good for Cory Johnson. The city has been unfair to taxi drivers by not regulating uber earlier. The city made money charging taxi drivers for the medallions, then under cut them.
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@K It is important to separate relief for drivers from relief for owners! I am in favor for some relief for single medallion owner-operators, NOT for people like Michael Cohwn, who owned or owns 30 medallions (fleet operators). People who bought medallions as an investment (income plus speculative gains) should not be bailed out at our (tax payer) expense!
1