If you are a green card holder you are paying taxes too (nevermind that even illegal immigrants pay taxes). They have rights to access these programs should they need to.
5
The United States desperately needs to cut down on the number of LEGAL immigrants to the United States.
Not because they are dishonest, or not hardworking; most of them are honest, hardworking people who contribute to the nation as much as anyone else. Rather, the issue that everyone here is missing is that the U.S. is incredibly overcrowded with human beings because of immigration, our environment is collapsing largely because of it, and we are using up habitat of other living things - which is terribly, horribly, immoral, and needs to stop right now. The U.S. should no longer be the safety valve for other countries - they need to take care of their own citizens- with our help, certainly, and with global help. While environmental problems are global, I only have a vote in the United States. While immigrants contribute to the U.S., there is, I believe, a much higher moral necessity than allowing immigration continue into the U.S. - and that is to save the natural environment and its wildlife.
10
I work in a community health center in NYC where I see elderly Americans that can't afford their medications and poor Americans who can't afford insurance but make too much for Medicaid so can only afford to see me except in area emergency. Then I see immigrants from the Dominican Republic with nice phones/clothes/cars who fly back and forth to homes they own there. They also bring elderly family members here and family with HIV because the care is better and free. I see African families where they wives don't speak English and they have at least 3-4 kids who require lots of money in medical care. It makes me wonder why an immigrant deserves free medications and doctor's visit while the American has to go without?
18
As we have known all along, all the rhetoric about illegal immigrants was just a smokescreen to hide their real intentions - all immigrants, legal or not, and specifically non white immigrants. Let's not forget who these people, like Trump and Stephen Miller, really are, which is representatives of a white nationalist faction masquerading as Republicans. Trump just delivered to the United Nations a vision of America which is eerily reminiscent of 1930's Germany. The fact that this illegitimate administration is ramping up an American program of ethnic cleansing is par for the course.
8
Mr. Trump is right. His Administration has done more than any other ... more to destroy everything America has ever accomplished since the landing at Plymouth Rock. Trump has taken up the mantle of the Enemy that would humiliate and devastate this country and end whatever good deeds she has done towards the betterment of Humanity.
5
I’m lost. The writer equates “legal immigrants” and applicants for green cards (permanent residence). But you don’t become a legal immigrant until a green card application is approved. For a very long time, applicants for green cards have to show they aren’t likely to become a public charge. Do, really, what is the writer actually talking about. Bad use of words = bad thinking.
7
Can denial of Social Security be far behind? How about Naturalized Citizens? Citizens abroad?
3
Does this surprise anyone? Trump is a bigoted narcissistic who delights in sadism and cruelty. Married to a wife who used what is pejoratively called "chained immigration" to bring her parents here.
Of course, she and they are WHITE. This is just more of Trump, formerly Drumpf when his immigrant grandfather came her, seeking to "whiten" our country. I hope every member of a minority group and every legal immigrant who can vote gets a ballot in November despite all the crooked efforts to suppress their votes, and gets rid of the GOP enablers of the Abomination at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. That will not stop everything he does, but it will open him to a world of hurt and frustration. If we fail in November, our country is done. Period.
8
This president gets meaner and more stupid every day. Deporting legal immigrants who use and government services? Idiotic.
My mother came here as a war bride from Great Britain after WWII and never became a citizen. She was a housewife for many years while my father worked as a sales executive. He was a hopeless alcoholic and went so far down my mother had to start working to support him and their four children. She taught for 25 years while paying income taxes and paying into Social Security. If she had been deported, we would have lost our home and had nothing to eat depending on "daddy dearest."
Who will Trump come after next? I was born in London, and because my father was an American, I was a US citizen at birth. Will he come after that category next?
When will he come after you? I wouldn't put anything past him.
8
Donald Trump and his far-right immigrant activist advisor Stephen Miller have cleverly branded their immigration plan "merit-based," when their real plan is to cut (legal) immigration by as much as half every year. After all, most legal immigrants are coming from the sorts of countries they view as "s-hole countries." When the RAISE Act - which would have cut by half the number of green cards given each year for permanent residency - failed to gain traction even in a Republican-controlled Congress, Miller and his WH supporters set out to get their way regardless. This is one very significant ways among many others, which includes cutting refugee numbers to historic lows. Many immigrants, including legal immigrants, work in areas which don't pay high wages, and just like Americans who work in those areas, will occasionally need some form of social support for themselves or their children. They do not rely on such support any more than similarly situated Americans, and also pay taxes. The need for workers, both "high" and "low-skilled" will only grow with the retirement of the Baby Boomers. In addition to the direct need for labor, without more workers for every retiree, SS and Medicare, which are already strained, will have to be cut back. But you'll never hear this from Trump or Miller, because they think that simply cutting the number of immigrants from "s-hole countries" is a good political strategy which plays to their base.
1
At every opportunity and where none exist, they are self-created, our Liar In Chief brings disgrace on America. Time to clean house and elect folks who believe in Make America Nice Again.
3
Out of the millions that would like to immigrate why dont we choose those that are the most benefit for our country and dont need things paid for by taxpayers they are entitled to.
Also, I can tell you as a physician tat the taxpayers are being taken advantage of by some immigrants that are not poor, put money in other countries, and get benefits and health care here for free. I see their elaborate vacation plans, clothes and phones and meanwhile they have Medicaid. It is also unfair that they bring elderly relatives over especially from Dom Rep or Bangladesh at my clinic for lifetime care when they never paid into the system. Meanwhile my elderly American sometimes pass on medications because they are too expensive.
13
@allright
All they have to do is claim the insurance offered by their sponsors is too high and they can get Medicaid for themselves and their family members. Many visa workers have their maternity and other family health costs covered by Medicaid.
Then if they have a child born here they are entitled to more benefits without the entire income being counted. Only the income of the citizen is counted, which is often zero or maybe SSI, but still prorated for all family members. That's how they get subsidized housing .
This is one way they qualify for many programs and is why they aren't in a hurry to become American citizens. As American citizens ALL income is counted. It's a scam that allows them to work for any income that would make a citizen ineligible and yet collect benefits for the whole family based on one citizen.
The party is over and it's well past time.
10
Also, there will be the risk of picking up dangerous infections from an untreated “Typhoid Maria” in the back kitchen of a restaurant , who is paid under the table! In any case, an food selling or handling establishments need to have fully paid for preventive and acute medical treatment and visits paid for contagious and communicable diseases, as well as fully paid for sick leave!
My wife is an immigrant who got a master’s in public health at a US university (where we met) while on a student visa.
While a green card holder, she has also become a registered nurse and is receiving a nurse practitioner doctorate, after which she will help fulfill a nationwide need for quality primary care.
She has applied for citizenship, but in Steve Miller’s earlier proposal, she could have been denied citizenship – and perhaps have had her permanent residence status placed in jeopardy – because while waiting for her green card she had enrolled in an “Obamacare” healthcare plan (she is legally required to have health insurance, and that was all that was available until she started working).
That component of Miller’s plan has been scrapped, at least for now. But the proposals that have survived are part of the same mean-spirited xenophobia that characterizes this administration, and much (but not all) of the GOP. Republicans who recognize the contributions and benefits of our immigrant population, or who simply recognize the unfairness of these policies, need to speak out and take their party back (it was Reagan who signed the last landmark immigration reform, to his credit).
By the way, most immigrants do pay taxes and contribute to these very programs they are now punished for using. My wife, for example, was a non-resident taxpayer for two years while working on her student visa, during which she was eligible for no benefits whatsoever.
11
I arrived in NJ from Portugal on April 1986 at the age of 25. Have worked 12 to 16 hour days ever since. In April 1989 bought my first house, making $7.50 an hour at the time.How you ask? Making sacrifices. For 12 months straight prior to that my wife and I saved every single penny we could. No out for dinner, no cable TV, no telephone, just the very basic to live or some would say survive. Now, how many American born 25 year old do you know that would have done what we did? And more. I can tell you that more then a dozen of my Portuguese friends I met here after arriving, all about the same age, every single one did pretty much what we did. Not one I know ever took a penny from any government. Just paid taxes. Today, all are naturalized US citizens.
10
If as you say is true,
'Noncitizens use welfare programs at much lower levels than the native-born. Immigrant families tend to use less health services than nonimmigrants, studies show, thus helping keep down health care costs for the wider population.',
why are you complaining that Trump plans to reduce these services to non-citizens, if they do not use the services much anyway?
These programs are designed for citizens, not illegal or even legal immigrants. In the past, immigrants had to demonstrate that they would be self-reliant before they gained entry to the US. This policy served us in the past. It was not wrong then, and is not wrong now.
These programs are funded by taxpayers.
Immigrants should not be a burden to the US. The system or lack thereof is so rife with abuse, Trump is trying to stem a little, if only a little. Judging by the comments on this and past pieces, most people actually agree with him.
20
Going against these long needed changes is why democrats are worried about the midterm elections. It's why Trump may win again in 2020.
10
Seriously not worried!
For the information of the authors, in this alleged democratic country the majority of citizens are supposed to rule - not some authoritarian elite as does in most communist and brutally authoritarian Asian countries! The majority on repeated polls in the United States have demanded lower LEGAL immigration rates for 4 decades. But our bought off by business owners greedy for immigrant slave labor political class have repeatedly committed treason against the people and defied the majority's will and interest. Immigration must be reduced and the refusal of our supposed 'representatives' to do this for much longer will constitute a moral and legal justification for a second revolutionary war! And this is no temporary aberration, for the daily news reports that people all over the world are rebelling against the, orchestrated by their elites, invasions of their nations by foreigners for the purposes of their various wealthy few %s greed for every more slave labor derived wealth and power.
14
The accounts in this comment section of the hardworking immigrant are the norm. Immigrants are extremely motivated people, according to many studies. The point of their persecution by the Trump Administration and its supporters is not because they don't see the great value immigrants add to this country. For the many soft-bellied Americans who support this policy, they hate the competition and the hard work they need to do to compete with new arrivals. They want the goodies without the hard work. Some native parents don't want much homework for their children when immigrants want their children to have as much as possible. Immigrants are here for the hard work, but some natives have a sense of entitlement. The fire in the belly is what makes America great. Hope it endures.
8
My great grandfather was a Welsh immigrant. He was a homesteader and a wheat farmer. The land was given to him by the US government in 1899 under the homestead act. His heirs still farm this land in Eastern Washington. They are politically conservative but may have forgotten that their land was originally someone else's. They are doing a hard job for little money. Immigrants give back to the country in many ways but their heirs should support others who have come here recently.
5
Another cruel, anti-immigrant, hate-fueled proposed rule brought to us by that loving grandson of humble Jewish immigrants, the twisted and misanthropic Champion of Exclusion, Stephen “Make America White Again” Miller. Supported by a cast of similar bigots of course, including the Director of Homelamd Insecurity K(ick ‘em out of here) Nielsen.
6
I immigrated to the US at age 10 and I am now proud to be a naturalized American citizen. That's why I am helping to get rid of the KKK-endorsed con man in the White House. First his enbalers this November, then him in 2020. Maybe then we'll recover some of the goodness and decency that made America the "shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere."
10
In another article a month ago, I read that the administration was proposing a rule change to deny citizenship to green card holders who had use the ACA for their insurance needs. This is even contrary to information on the ACA website. My wife is very close to citizenship, having already been fingerprinted and now this. Over three years our total subsidy has been $400 after reconcilement through taxes. In fact as it is, that seems to be a subsidy for both of us so I guess her share is $200. Has Trump (and Stephen Miller) backed off on this change?
4
I was a colleague of Kam Tam, who owns the pharmacies at UCSF Children’s Hospital Oakland. I regularly hear from my patients how much they appreciate the helpful services they receive from his pharmacies, and prefer them over others to easily access their children’s medications.
My parents were immigrants from Korea in the 1980s and had to rely on government supported housing and food stamps while working at the flea market to make ends meet, allowing my father to pursue his accounting credentials.
After obtaining green card and citizenship, they worked very hard for many years to build their accounting business and small family.
They now have two children, one who is an accountant and one who is a child psychiatrist, both of which are highly in demand for this country — because not enough Americans are interested in pursuing these professions.
Further legal restrictions on immigrants will only hurt America’s future, and are in no one’s best interest.
I hope that our government recognizes this before they take actions that will only weaken our country, and that they will later regret.
4
This policy makes me ashamed to be American. I love this country and feel blessed to have been born here.
But my grandparents were not born here; they escaped persecution and found a place where hard work and education allowed them to be contributing members of society whose children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren have been loyal and happy Americans.
Each generation should debate what the admission requirements should be to become American. And many argue that legal immigrants are to be admired over undocumented ones. Either way, our system should never persecute immigrants, who strengthen the Union.
Shame, shame, shame.
3
I live in a part of the country where a number of people would not like living. There are very few here and those who grow up here, don't stay here. There are a number of meat and poultry plants to serve the country. Among the large processors is a Tyson beef plant.
I know that Tyson employs large numbers of both illegal and legal immigrants. It is horrible work, I am told, and dirty and loud. I would not want to work there.
If we counted everyone here, I'm sure we would be majority Hispanic. It is not only Mexican, but Guatemalans, Salvadorans and others. My neighbors and friends are brown. It's not a big deal.
Those Hispanic immigrants have built this part of America. They were here before the Anglo people came. These people have a background of hard work and want to participate in American life for themselves and their children.
Since all this right wing demonizing of immigrants who are not lily white my friends and neighbors live in fear of deportation. Whether or not they're legal immigrants they face discrimination now for being who they are.
In contrast, I have a family member who is an immigrant from England. She is welcomed in America because she is white. No one questions her being here and often her accent opens doors for her.
My family member and all my friends and neighbors came here for a better life, as did my ancestors. Let's all leave the discrimination out of equation and be the welcoming people we know we can be.
8
@SusanJ
There used to be many small meat packing companies. They paid middle class wages and had decent working conditions. Then a few companies bought most of them and moved the factories to where there were many immigrants. Since then, wages have stagnated and working conditions are rumored to be terrible. People are expected to stand on greasy floors to cut meat on quick-running conveyor belts with rarely sharpened knives. Many of the resulting accidents may not be being reported.
There are tens of thousands of Americans who would be thrilled to work at meat cutting plants, if the plants would again offer safe environments and middle class wages.
The immigrants (including the undocumented ones) who currently work in terrible conditions for low wages are being subsidized by the American taxpayer. (For example, many of the undocumented use Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers to apply for child tax credits and the Earned Income Tax Credit even though they do not earn enough to pay income taxes. The IRS acts like a welfare agency in that it gives them cash hand outs. In addition, those who are injured receive medical care at taxpayer expense.
If the meat packing companies would again provide safe working conditions and pay middle class wages, they would attract citizens to work for them, and the taxpayers would not have to subsidize their workers.
12
Why should these companies pay decent wages like they used to? There is a ready supply of illegals who will work for far less. The taxpayer then pays for the education and medical care of their kids with the added bonus that they'll likely vote democratic.
4
I see the logic of this Stephen Miller/Donald Trump initiative. People who have been a drain on the United States government and, perhaps, it's self-sufficient citizens should not be entitled to citizenship. It's easy to argue with the efficacy and ethical merit of such a policy, but I will not.
Instead, let me point out that, by this measure, a man who has used the courts as a weapon against employees, contractors, customers, donors, lenders, and the government itself in an ongoing pattern of fraud and deceit should also be stripped of the rights of citizenship. In Trump’s case, his exploitation of bankruptcy courts to shirk financial responsibility means that he should have been disenfranchised from the ranks of the citizenry 6 times over. And then there is the matter of his taxes and the reasons he cannot uphold custom (and a promise) to release his tax returns.
8
Years ago I advised a friend's Danish husband with a green card that he should look to becoming an American citizen soon. Being white with a hard to find skill in IT, he probably would face very few problems with green card status but I knew from a historical family experience that citizenship is always the safest path. He became a citizen about 4 years ago. Who knows, Denmark might offend the current administration and Danes with green cards could be considered persona non grata. Never say never. This current move is designed to appease those anti-immigrant supporters who are clueless as to the contributions of immigrants to society. It is astounding to see in the news the "go back to your own country" "get out of my country" diatribes directed against minorities (Asians, Hispanic, Blacks) by Americans of European descent in public spaces. I have yet to see minorities say the same to Americans of European descent. The arrogance is beyond comprehension - and the ignorance is an example of American education at its finest. Guess they never learned in school that America is a country of immigrants like none other.
6
I have been a green card holder for 6 years. Been in the country, legally at all times, for 16 years. Paid tens of thousands of dollars in legal and immigration fees. Paid taxes every year. I got laid off in 2016 and that year I availed unemployment benefits for 5 months. Total benefit availed $11,000. That year I paid taxes amounting to over $100,000.
I am now eligible for naturalization but hesitate to apply because of that one stint when I took advantage of the paltry social safety net I have paid for every single year of my residence in this country.
They are looking for excuses to purge this country of undesirables.
15
Trump's racist views and anti immigrant stances are merely a tool to control and stay in power . I would say that he holds most people in disdain( that includes his poorer base ) he fancies himself as an elitist . Yes he rails against them but to him the elitists are those richer than him and democratic . He has filled his administration with like minded non menches like Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions . Too bad Roosevelt Island is occupied and a piece of prime real estate ; in the 1800's it was where all the "public charges " were sent , the poor , the mentally ill , the drunks and thieves.
5
Last one in wants to slam the door. Same as it ever was.
5
So when, if ever, do we declare we are full up? 500 million? A billion? Billions? We are the third most populous country on the planet. Many people think that is plenty.
3
There are Republican officials, at the national and local level, who proclaimed last year how unfair it was that Trump (or for that matter ANY Republican leader) could be besmirched by insinuations that they were against legal immigrants. It was all gaslighting.
7
Many will suggest that Trump will not do something like this because (1) it is unconstitutional and (2) it is disgraceful.
But he will do it or at least make campaign speeches in which he threatens to do it. Why? It appeals to his base. His base is energized by the fantasy that non-whites will be removed from the country thereby solving their problems. As we have seen, just making threats (like building the wall) has taken Trump a long way. He hasn't followed through on much but his supporters, apparently convinced that the deep state is blocking Trump at every turn, doesn't seem to mind. The lies are enough.
Of course, these legal immigrants have nothing to do with their problems. Their problems, largely economic, are the logical and inevitable result of tax policies that have bifurcated the country into the haves and have-nots.
It is remarkable that Trump's supporters have chosen Trump to be their champion. If anything, Trump has done everything in his power to make the lives of his supporters more difficult: tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, job-killing trade wars, attacks on healthcare regulation.
Eventually, this sad charade is going to come to an end. Nobody knows when or how much damage will have done by then, but it surely will end.
7
I think if any legal immigrants denigrate illegal immigrants for “cheating the system” (even as the system remains broken), this is your wake up call. It was never about illegal immigration. It’s about cementing the power of the new Republican Party and keeping out anybody who could conceivably vote for a Democrat (that is, anybody who is liberal/centrist, not white, or not Christian). You were always next on the list to be whacked.
Republicans are very good at their job. We must be better. Vote in November.
2
This is scary, as are the cuts to any number of programs and agencies that provide(d) services, support, infrastructure (What happened to that promise? Another lie that was made only to get a wall) and monitoring. I watched a neighbor patiently negotiate a SNAP purchase in my local grocery store. The clerk said she had the right brand, size and type of thing but the wrong flavor for SNAP, so the purchase was voided and the clerk at least went to fetch an approved juice flavor - which was obviously not a favorite and which action took her time and the customers' time. SNAP has been turned into a "user-unfriendly" program to make its users want to remove themselves from it. And the grocery store clerks are enforcers. It's being re-written not to help anyone but to humiliate and frustrate. So combine that with things like new Greencard rules and you've got, what? Another Trump blow to children. Do you see Sessions, DeVos, Carson, Azar, Nielsen fighting these changes? No. The Trumpeters can take their fake selves off a long pier.
5
The US needs more diversity, and an end to white hegemony and white supremacy. Borders that separate, distinctions between legal and illegal, and distinctions between citizens and non-citizens are all at their core, manifestations of racism and xenophobia.
And yet, every functioning country on the planet makes distinctions between citizens and non-citizens, including those countries that aren't "white." This includes how South Africa treats migrants from Zimbabwe, how Colombia and Brazil treat migrants from Venezuela, how Lebanon and Jordan treat refugees from Syria, how Bangladesh treats refugees from Burma, how Egypt and Israel treat migrants and refugees from Eritrea, ad nauseum.
I am certain that I am not alone when I express my disgust with the simplistic and homogeneous opinion pieces that I read almost daily in the New York Times and similar outlets.
3
I came to the US at 15 from communist Europe. I got free high school and college education in NYC. I have been working and paying taxes for 40 years, so I paid back whatever NY invested in me many time over.
I am a naturalized citizen and I can vote!
5
So if they come here illegally, they are "skipping ahead of the queue", if they come here and don't work, they're "taking advantage of us", and if they do work, they're "stealing our jobs"? I wish people would stop arguing in bad faith and instead come out and say they just don't want any immigrants period. That would at least be an honest statement of their position.
13
.Another example of "Make America White Again". But we knew this before he became president.
A nation gets the government it deserves.
7
First they came for the illegals and I didn't say anything because I was not an illegal, then they separated children from their mothers and I said nothing because my child had not been separated from me, then they came for the green card holders and I did not speak out because I was not a green card holder, then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
4
"We're only enforcing our immigration laws" has always been a ruse and a cover to normalize xenophobic, racist sentiments and unnecessarily cruel actions like separating the families of asylum seekers. There is enforcing the law in a sensible, even-handed way. Then there is throwing red meat to an angry, hate-driven base. People like to ignore this, but Trump was the first president to be endorsed by the KKK in decades. He declined only days later under great pressure, and in rather mealy-mouthed fashion. Former grand wizard David Duke still declared that Trump "won a great victory for our people." The real agenda had always been out there, barely concealed.
Now Trump's allies feel ready to move on to legal immigrants. Even naturalized citizens are in the crosshairs with Trump building a "de-naturalization task force." Nominally, de-naturalization is only supposed to happen when there was fraud involved in obtaining the citizenship. But when has Trump resisted weaponizing the government for his own ends and to please his base?
4
"Trump’s Next Target: Legal Immigrants"
Never mind "next" target, immigration as a whole was the ORIGINAL target! Illegal immigration was just the low-hanging fruit.
Look, the United States is entitled to open its borders or close them off entirely. We don't need to explain ourselves to the rest of the world. It's like getting an invitation to Augusta National back in the day. They didn't want women around, so they only invited men. What's to explain?
But here's the thing... except for the likes of Laura Ingram, David Duke, Steve Miller, etc., no one wants to just ADMIT they don't like brown people entering the country and would prefer a perpetual straight, white, Christian, cis-gender male-dominated government and culture. Some people might interpret that as less than noble. But if brown people are coming to steal, rape and murder their way across the country, that's different! Those seeking asylum? Just say they're mostly liars, drug mules and/or terrorists.
Legal immigration? Ohhh no you don't... Just look at the genocide we perpetrated against the Native Americans! They were foolish enough to tolerate those fleeing persecution and we've been manifesting our destiny ever since ("from sea to shining sea" indeed). We practically invented that trick!
Besides, with all the savings to our social safety net, the GOP would be free to spend money on what the struggling middle class needs most: weapons.
6
I live in Texas. The green carders are the ones doing the labor around here and doing a great job. So many people here would prefer a Mexican do the job because we know it will be done right. They take such pride in their work and treat us with so much respect. They bring us extra of whatever they have, be it fruit, vegetables, taquitos or just a smile. They are way more family oriented and treat us like family too.
Please don’t say unpleasant things about these wonderful people, especially if you haven’t experienced them firsthand. Please vote for candidates that will support them.
I volunteer weekly at a homeless shelter. 95% of our clients are white Americans. I love these humble people and learn many lessons from their struggles.....but people of color and immigrants families take care of their own. They will avoid handouts unless they have been separated from their families or unable to work.
17
Tung Nguyen and Sherry Hirota have presented a pragmatic argument, rather than a moral one, for immigrants. This reminds me of the scene in "Schindler's List" where the children are forced onto a train, and Oskar Schindler argues with the officials that he needs the children's tiny hands to make munitions for the government. Schindler doesn't present the moral argument that the Nazis are entitled to the same rights everyone is entitled to, but entitled to rule no one.
The moral argument would have fallen on deaf ears.
Tung Nguyen and Sherry Hirota do not present the moral argument that the Republicans are entitled to the same rights everyone is entitled to, but entitled to rule no one.
This is a dilemma -- to present the correct, but ineffective argument, or the reverse.
6
Canada reserves most of its immigration slots for those who have a strong educational background and a skill needed in the Canadian economy, who speak English and/or French, and who could assimilate easily. Most immigrants move to Canada with a well-paying job waiting for them or with the ability to procure one quickly. The result is that they start paying hefty taxes almost immediately.
Even though it is long established law that immigrants to the U.S. should be able to support themselves or have a sponsor who would help them meet all of their financial needs, 19 years ago, President Bill Clinton decided that immigrants could use Medicaid, receive food stamps, and so on. Unlike Canada, the U.S. has been using only kinship to pick most of its immigrants. It does not consider whether the potential immigrant is skilled or educated, and could consequently add a needed ability that would benefit the economy. It does not give extra points to those who know English or who could easily assimilate. All it looks at is family ties.
Many of the families who now petition for their relatives to move here are too poor to support them financially. Most of their relatives become heavily dependent on our government's various welfare programs.
17
There is only on problem with the oft repeated “diversity makes us stronger “ chant of the left. It never seems to work out that way. Currently and thru out history countries made up of different: religions, languages, ethnicities, tribes, etc spend most of their time fighting among themselves rather than moving forward often to the point of breaking apart. Not to say they can’t make a go of it, but it requires a common language and basic values. In the current atmosphere where anything associated with white America is seen as oppressive, evil and racist and anything that isn’t, is by definition, better, we are headed for the example set by the balkans. The left could help out some by acknowledging that the u.s. while not perfect, rather than being the last bastion of evil racism, war mongering and intolerance has lead the world in democracy, rescued it from tyranny at least a couple of times, given more money for good, accepted more people from more places than everywhere else combined and has largely been true to its ideals. We have a ways to go, but there must be some reason almost everybody on the planet wants to come here.
12
@Al. you said,
"The left could help out some by acknowledging that the u.s. while not perfect, rather than being the last bastion of evil racism, war mongering and intolerance has lead the world in democracy, rescued it from tyranny at least a couple of times, given more money for good, accepted more people from more places than everywhere else combined and has largely been true to its ideals."
Until it isn't. While getting kicked in the gut you are not allowed to recite what you have done for me in the past. What counts is Now.
Is the administration going to also allow employers to not pay unemployment and other payroll taxes for their legal immigrant employees? And those taxes will instead be passed on to the employee in the form of extra compensation so they can prepare in case they need to use the extra "buffer"? Immigrants pay taxes just like everyone else. I fail to see how it can be legal to withhold the benefit from someone who is paying the cost.
5
" And there are 10.5 million children in the United States in families receiving public benefits who have at least one noncitizen parent, according to the Migration Policy Institute. Nine out of 10 of these children are natural-born citizens, and their families could be torn apart if a parent is considered a public charge and no longer able to stay in the country."
And here we are, right back to the lunacy of Birthright Citizenship. It makes no sense that people in this country illegally can parent US citizen children. Birthright Citizenship incentivizes illegal entry, incentivizes having children (usually at taxpayer expense, via Medicaid), complicates immigration enforcement, and opens up the full array of taxpayer funded entitlements to US citizen kids.
This country and Canada are the only countries left in the developed world that have Birthright Citizenship. Countries that had it until comparatively recently (New Zealand and Ireland, for instance) saw that it was a nonsensical policy and changed their laws -- as this country should.
20
@Kurfco
Canadians are up in arms about the abuse of the law too and are pushing for changes. It's why Canada and Trudeau have recently kept their mouths shut about immigration policies in the United States. Canada is rolling up their welcome mat.
14
May I ask how you obtained your citizenship? Just curious.
1
@Christopher
Birthright, but I would have gotten it via the replacement system too as both parents are citizens.
This particular legislation is odious but we really should be having a national debate about how much immigration this country really needs or can afford. Once this fellow is out of office the issue will remain.
15
There is certainly a problem of government benefit abuse by legal immigrants. I live in Brooklyn Chinatown and often see both younger and older people, well dressed and toting latest iPhones pay using Benefit cards at a neighborhood's Chinese supermarket. I asked my Chinese friends about it and they told me that it is very common for the Chinese immigrants in the area to bring their parents and relatives from China and then obtain government benefits like food assistance and Medicaid for them. While I sympathize and admire the strength and cohesion of Chinese immigrant families, I am not convinced that I should be paying for it as a taxpayer. I am a naturalized citizen and so far haven't used a single dime of government benefits since I immigrated 30 years ago.
On the other side, we have to be very careful with any changes to the existing benefits/immigration laws to ensure that vulnerable immigrants who need help are treated well and with respect.
23
Americans have 'elected' a ship of fools. Our president is laughed at the UN by representatives from nations that respect research; while America's science, medicine and engineering could not exist without immigration.
Get to the polls in a month and vote the bums in your neighborhood out!
9
Vote, and let's make Steven Miller's Trump puppet a lame duck for the next 2 years. There's no other cure for the xenophobia disease except political quarantine and eventually, in 2020 at the latest, removal.
9
I have a friend from Korea in the U.S. legally, an artist, he gets Medicaid. I work every day of the year and my healthcare is $11,000 a year and going up by double digits every year and I get no help and no pay raises. He travels the world and I slave away to pay skyrocketing premiums.
If Democrats are that clueless to my plight as a middle class American citizen, they will lose elections from now until the end of eternity. The Democrats are just buying votes, very expensive votes...they know where their bread is buttered...new immigrants vote overwhelmingly Democrat. This country is finished with a capital "F" and Democrats are an equal partner in its destruction. So, get off your high horse.
20
Interesting being a Democrat I shudder to add how about all the legal immigrants of which many were brought to this country before WW2......that are on the dole or public assistance as a former New Yorker for forty years I never knew how many were on public assistance in the City, I never knew you could walk in to a hospital without insurance,get food stamps,and your education paid for with money if you had a low income job...I was in the entertainment field but was raised in the South with Immigrant parents from
Greece who would never go on any assistance ever...….or it was in the DNA that it was shameful to be on assistance.So I give you all the people living in the city..its quite a large population on welfare with rentals..... ....they are very generous in New York.
8
I feel that the Trump administration proposes the most cynical and cruel policies to immigrants ever. It is contrary to the best traditions in American history in which we welcomed immigrants with opportunity for success and benefited so much from our generosity.
It reflects Trump’s sociopathic personality, his bigotry and his cheapness. He practices reverse Robin Hood and takes from the needy to give to the affluent elites like himself. His administration is a disgrace!
6
"A huge number of immigrant families could be affected by this change."
Yet I bet they sit around calling all Americans lazy takers and have some really choice words for Native or African Americans on welfare.
3
This has Stephen Miller written all over it.
13
The main problem we have here is in paragraph 1 and it happened a long time ago. Why did the U.S. allow a Chinese with rotten teeth and tuberculosis who weighed 96 pounds entry into the U.S.? Did he perhaps sneak in? Paragraph 2. "He donates time and professional services to vulnerable families in Oakland". Does that mean donating time and services to other illegal immigrants, or other legal immigrants, that come here to take advantage of our culture and economy? Paragraph 3. How can you possibly say "benefits they were entitled to". Who says they're entitled? The NYT?
11
@Jim Tagley
"that come here to take advantage of our culture and economy"
Maybe, that is the draw that lures strivers like this guy. If you need to mint new Americans, just as the body must mint new cells, maybe this is the way to go.
@mattiaw We don't need new Americans. We need about 100 million fewer people in this country.
It is a denial of equal protection of the law.
It is also a racist, fascist policy, motivated by hate.
We need a Supreme Court that will enforce the constitution and laws.
5
It is longstanding law that before they become citizens, immigrants are supposed to either depend on a sponsor and/or themselves to financially support themselves. 19 years ago, President Clinton decided to interpret this law loosely by saying that immigrants could use Medicaid and welfare, as long as they did not receive cash payments. It was still possible, back then, for one with little education to support oneself. Jobs that paid decent wages were plentiful. Clinton encouraged businesses to hire welfare recipients. He signed a law limiting welfare for any one individual to 5 years.
Since then, out-sourcing and automation have radically changed the economy. The jobs once held by those with less than or no more than a high school diploma are both harder to find and offer pay that has not kept up with inflation. We no longer have the jobs with which poorly educated, low skilled immigrants can become financially independent. In most cases, President Clinton’s expectation that immigrants would need government assistance for only a short time can no longer be met.
Even though the economy has dramatically changed, we are still accepting poorly educated immigrants who lack the wherewithal to be financially independent.
A large percentage of our own citizens are having trouble making ends meet. We need to focus our attention and resources on helping them rather than on undereducated, unskilled immigrants.
16
What benefits did Melania or her parents accept? Did she lie in her green card application? Maybe the Trump regime should start their enforcement with them.
Oh, wait. They are white Europeans. Never mind.
10
All this by an administration whose head is married to an immigrant and is himself the grandson of immigrants.
76
Political expediency and deliberate cruelty. Hard to believe, but that's what we've become.
1
We live in the richest nation in history. Are we expected to watch people starve on the streets?
The fear-mongering, race-baiting attitude of the Republican party and particularly, Donald Trump, is unsettling.
So... we are a Christian nation when it comes to Muslims, but we are not Christian when it comes to children?
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.
3
I am so happy that our country allowed a legitimate Vietnamese refugee into our country and provided him with medical care and schooling. This is all good. But the reality is today our US born citizens can not afford higher education or are in huge debt. Also, that there are US born citizens who are dying today from lack of basic dental care. I am only guessing that Kam Tan came over during the late 70's. Things are different today in 2018 in this country. When you or someone in your family needs the gov't security net now, you will discover it is frayed and have to get in line. Many Americans dies waiting in line for medical care and housing vouchers or low income housing. But if you fall out of the coconut tree yesterday you get it all (benefits) immediately provided. So if you've paid into the system your entire life too bad, so sad.
14
There are over a hundred and twenty languages spoken in my city. These vary from Spanish and Chinese to Tongan and Vietnamese. We have Middle Eastern and African languages. Russian, Indian, and Nepali. Twenty percent of the population speaks a non-English language at home.
I don't see the problem. These are not the people causing crime or disrupting our society. I live on a decidedly international block. The neighbors are good people. I don't understand why the President, or the President's base, is attacking immigrants. The people causing crime and dependency in our city are mostly white people with severe substance abuse and/or mental health problems. Crime isn't even that bad either. It's more of a nuisance than anything.
Look, I'll respect an effective amount of immigration enforcement. We do have laws. However, first, there's a diminishing return to how much we spend on law enforcement. Each dollar you spend is more of a waste than the last one. At some point, it's cheaper to give every citizen food stamps than to try to police immigration completely. Secondly, the effort doesn't produce positive social outcomes anyway.
We need to call this by it's true name. Trump's immigration policies are institutionalized racism. He's punishing immigrants for being brown or speaking a foreign language. Scandinavians or white supremacists though are good people. The sad part is how transparent he is about the effort. Why do non-racist conservatives stand for this treatment?
8
I am a green card holder, a former H1b holder, a white immigrant from a Western Europe and I'm married to a US citizen. The taxes I paid last year to the US are of the size of a very good salary and I'm as far removed of social assistance as it gets. I'm also absolutely horrified by all of what is happening.
I have been paying all of the taxes, Medicare and Social Security since day 1 of when I started working even though I was not eligible for any of the unemployment benefits. I would have been out of status (and consequently deported) the same hour if my employer decided to let me go.
I've paid into the system that I had no right of getting any benefits from - FOR YEARS. And apparently even now, as a green card holder, if the need should ever arise (and I hope it never ever does), I'm still not allowed to use any of the social nets in place. Again, these are social nets that *I* contributed to.
My question for this administration is - why are immigrants forced to contribute to a pot that they have no way of using and even when they are legally allowed to, it is held against them? Why not let them keep that money then and have them invest it on their own? If I invested all the $ I contributed to Social Security and Medicare throughout the years, I would have had quite a large cushion to fall onto and no one would hold it against me if I used it should the need arise.
Sounds like this is a case of "having your cake and eating it too." Despicable
21
The Republican Party resorts to creative linguistic artistry to couch proposals intended to 'reform' legal immigration through the pretext of security and fiscal conservativism. This cleverly manifested presentation conceals the belying unspoken reason motivating this action: denying immigrants, disproportionately representative of racial minorities and ethnic minorities (no, not from Norway, as 45 expressed preference compared to immigrants from nations living in 'huts'). The GOP knows, and with justified apprehension, is that those immigrants who become citizens support Democratic candidates and Democratic policies promoting and advancing inclusiveness. And, those immigrants are industrious, educated, law abiding individuals, family oriented, and socially involved in promoting civic activities. The Republican Party approach is correlatively a craftily masked effort, and without saying it, to end 'chain migration,' which 45 and the GOP Senate and House leadership vigorously promote. The living hypocrisy is ostensibly clear, though. 45's parents-in-law, obtained American citizenship through the exact statutory vehicle the GOP loathes when examined in the context of racial minorities and ethnic minorities whose complexions are darker than a latte and hair is coarse or curly. Materially exacerbating this hypocrisy, 45 has remained incredibly silent since his 'in-laws' became citizens by not uttering the'chain migration.' The Republican Party and 45 are hellbent. Race matters.
4
Yeah, we get it. Trump hates people who aren't white.
Strange that he wants to help meth heads and opioid abusers (mostly white), but punish green card holders utilizing normal social services (apparently not white enough). Helping white coal miners and farmers, too.
Fortunately, these changes can quickly be reversed by the next administration. Trump has limited power to affect real long-term change here.
1
I am an immigrant, legal one. I think native born people are concerned about immigration (legal and illegal) because the believe that the change brought about is detrimental to them. You throw in concerns about crime and physical safety, hysteria is to be expected.
What may have been a melting pot became a salad bowl, and now is something quite else - with poverty and dependence across generations. What definitely galls natives is immigrants demanding changes, expecting majorities to submit and change to accommodate them.
It is not just natives who want on immigrants; every immigrant group believes they are special, a model minority, makes an out sized contribution, and is better than others. I.e., there is plenty of hostility to go around. Ironic; if only immigrants were in charge of this, all of us would face deportation without cause.
So what do we immigrants do? First off, let us not dismiss every concern about immigration as illegitimate, or blame entho-religious nationalism as a knee-jerk response - even if intuitively appealing an option. Second, we've got to stop defending illegal immigration. Period. We should not be in favor of law breaking. Third, we need to police ourselves; getting dependent on day one is unworthy of us. We are contributors, not parasites. No one likes parasites.
I.e., let us talk. We have a big problem. I don't want my children and grandchildren living in this hostile environment for ever. Neither do you, native or otherwise.
12
Now Mr. Trump proposes to extend his anti-immigrant policies to legal immigrants.
The purging of the immigrants is a form of non-lethal ethnic cleansing. The corpus of immigration law, which lends a gloss of respectability to the purge, is institutionalized ethnic discrimination.
Why is this happening in America?
2
First they came for the undocumented workers and I said nothing since I was not undocumented;
Then they came for the refugees and I said nothing since I was not a refugee;
Next they came for the legal workers who did not hold permanent residency, and I said nothing since I was not one of them either;
Next they came for green card holders, and I said nothing since I was not a green card holder;
Finally they came for US-born citizen children of permanent residents - and there was no one left to speak for me.
5
Wow. To read some of this, apparently we have no right to deny anyone entry or deport anyone for any reason.Can anyone name another country that exists under these conditions? In fact, any country with no border and no say in who can come or who has to go is in fact, not a country. That kind of a free for all is not a very attractive prospect in my view.
3
Trump's proposals will allow for more money to be available for tax breaks and "welfare for the rich" programs. The great gushing sound of wealth being sucked up by the rich and powerful will get even louder. Eventually the Trump /GOP redistribution of wealth will make the majority of Americans economic slaves of the super rich. The Party of Greed will have completed its economic coup d'etat. This proposal to go after legal immigrants is just the beginning since they have the fewest legal protections. Soon Social Security and other earned benefit programs will be gutted by the Party of Insatiable Greed (Trump Republican).
2
It’s going to be unspeakably horrifying to witness Kirsten Nielsen’s family separation policies being deployed across the country and nowhere near the Mexican boarder.
Children pulled from their parents and put in cages and people’s lives utterly destroyed in a low key version of ethnic cleaning. It’s the way America works now, this is what we voted for and this is what we’ve become as a nation.
6
Although green-card holders benefits from the assistance, the ones who benefit more are: (1) the landlords who receive artificially inflated rents due to Section 8 housing, (2) the whole medical/insurance/pharmaceutical mafia which has milked the American public for three generations, and (3) FOOD, Inc.
Another stupid and malevolent idea, from a stupid and malevolent president, supported by a stupid and malevolent public, which ironically goes against the interests of the puppeteers, i.e., the landlords, et al.
9
don't hold your breath on this congress. Its GOPers are mstly white Christian males who want ot recreate the Great America that had white pigment with black soil to tread on. And now the black means non-white. How do I know? I come form a country where t You may the English colonial rulers called all locals"black". Oh they were nice in South Africa" They created fore categories of population: white, black, brown and Indians! so hey Asians - Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indians, and Hispanics and Native Americans, and of course people from the "shxthole countries" are all black Nicki Haley, are you listening? You may think you are white by marrying into whie my daughter did too), but your parents are still black.
1
This article is very misleading. It gives the impression that we are actually going after legal immigrants as opposed to illegal aliens. I don't like being taken for a ride by people with a hidden agenda. This includes some opinion writers for the New York Times. please check your definitions before you write something that can affect millions of people just so that they can wrongly sway our opinions. This fortunately doesn't work with critical thinkers who read the New York Times!
I am totally against illegal immigration and yes I am an immigrant and a citizen of the United States, now. I am not so proud of it at this moment.
12
@JG, When I lost my job in 2011, it took me over a year to find a good paying one. I'm not an immigrant and am a citizen. I'll spare you what I did to weather the emotional, physical and financial toll. If my mother hadn't been able to front me money, I would have lost my house, been homeless and possibly hungry. I used government services - training and U.I.
I have a friend with a legally obtained green card. He has been here almost since birth. Should he lose work, I know he'd try hard to find a new job. If this had been 2009, he might not find one. As an articulate, thoughtful, skilled and educated brown man, he might not find one, now. He might look for government services, too, after decades as a hard-working, tax-paying member of society who is good to his friends, neighbors, co-workers and customers. Why should someone like that lose their green card?
3
@JG I have to wonder - in what way do you find this article misleading?
1
Nothing different than "racial cleansing" of fascist countries.
The only thing that we need is that Trump uses the same parameters for the nations in is attack on the poor.
5
@Dr. Ricardo Garres Valdez
Really, racial cleansing? How can you compare a nation trying to control its borders with the Holocaust. Histrionics such as this show a lack of understanding of history and of the issue at hand. For what it's worth, please look at the atrocities committed by the socialist paradises of the USSR under Stalin and China under Mao.
3
@Dr. Ricardo Garres Valdez: All Europeans. In MA we get a lot of Irish ‘vacationers’, mostly male (females come as nannies). They just don’t leave. But, that’s ok, they are white. Even when the men marry American women, take a job from Americans. Save every penny they can in a joint account. Then when it’s big enough, just disappear. Reappearing in Ireland (though that govt. won’t admit they are there), they marry (this time in the church, American marriage not legal there) their childhood sweetheart with the stolen money, go to work at, often, an American company, with the stolen experience & leave children behind (don’t believe in birth control, or that an illegal (there) marriage has legitimate children). Our govt can’t help these American families. The Nannies usually don’t go home. Just look for a wealthy American who likes red hair & freckles. They usually go to CA a community property state. Then after a couple years get a divorce. Somehow these Irish women believe in BC.
1
These retrograde immigration initiatives are the howling moans of the all white, elderly American racists headed up now by DJT and Jeff Sessions. They and their followers are desperate to lock in these overtly racist policies by stacking the Supreme Court with like minded jurists who see the world through the same tortured lenses.
Two forces that the Trumpets cannot ever overcome - the passage of time and changing demographics - will eventually roll these attitudes and policies into the ditch where they belong.
3
Am I next? But all these folks are being treated much worse than I with my white privilege: http://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20180803/guest-column-will-i-be-st...
1
Where will it end, someone asks. It won't. Trump's unfiltered hatred of dark-skinned immigrants sits atop a bigger iceberg of anti-immigrant sentiment. They came for the illegals and now, surprise, they're coming for the legals. Next it will be naturalized citizens (already, they have made some moves towards stripping some naturalized people of their citizenship).
4
@MP
A few people lied on their applications to become naturalized citizens. They omitted saying that they had been convicted of committing one or more felonies. Since some of the databases on immigrants who had committed felonies were not available until recently, the Immigration Service was not able to detect the lies, and citizenship was granted.
As more databases have become available, it has been discovered that some naturalized immigrants had committed felonies (sometimes under aliases) before they became citizens, but had left this information off their applications for citizenship. Such people are now being taken to court, in an attempt to strip them of their citizenship.
6
Want to guarantee that Trump is re-elected in 2020?
Make this into yet another issue where anyone who doesn't oppose the president on this is decried as a bigot, xenophobe, racist, Islamophobe etc.
10
@Middleman MD: If you aren’t any of that list, why do you act & sound like it? Have you ever demanded the illegals from Ireland get deported? Or anywhere in Europe? Or Canada (half the major stars in Hollywood are Canadians who work here without ‘papers’). Oh, but, they are ok. They are white. Hmmm. Better rethink your politics. If you don’t oppose bigotry, xenophobery (Russia & Japan are the worst in the world, but we have plenty here), racists, Islamophobia, misynogistia; than you might just be one. Think on it.
Global business and no immigration. How dumb funded must one be to think that such a policy would work? You can't survive in our fast moving world without immigration!
A nation that doesn't work and live by this rule is bound to stay behind. New ideas and a fresh-up of the society are the tools of our new modernity. Don't fall into a sleep. It will kill you.
6
After 37 years of legal residence, 34 of them paying (considerable) taxes and contributing to my community, I am faced with the prospect of being forcibly repatriated to a country I barely recognize.
This is all because tragic circumstances forced me to give up work for a three-year period and, just before my husband died, I went on Medi-Cal (Medicaid).
Of course, my situation is of little consequence compared to the appalling plight of children and parents who have been forcibly separated from each other. But Trump (more particularly, Steven Miller) has certainly made me worried sick in my old age. And incidentally, it's not good enough to state — as one commentator has — that "The move is not intended to affect most immigrants who have already been granted green cards." Green cards come up for renewal every ten years, and being considered "a public charge" (even if to the tune of half a dozen routine doctor's visits) could become grounds for rejection.
13
When there are enclaves of recent legal immigrants who work off the books, receive public assistance and are not trying to integrate I can understand a concern about letting that continue and enforcing rules is a good thing.
I recall the Tsarnav family was headed by a father who repaired cars for cash while the family claimed benefits. There is no value for us when an immigrant family flouts our employment laws and tax laws.
16
I wonder if the foreign visa holders at the Trump properties are receiving public assistance to offset their low wages (wages so low that Trump's properties are unable to hire American workers).
18
Retroactive consequences for using legal benefits is yet another unethical act on the part of this administration.
Some services are necessary at the time the services are received but not forever.
If you go to the hospital to give birth and don't have $25,000 you will usually be assigned to Medicaid. The hospital wants to be paid. Some states automatically send social services to households -such as birth to age 3 well baby visits. Does this count ? Even if the mother did not ask for it? WIC, free immunizations at the health department ?
Ask anyone who has had the misfortune to have a seriously ill or disabled child if they needed benefits . My parents , legally here since the Mayflower and the Missouri Independence Trail, ( English and German immigrants respectively ) had a disabled child. Over time she cost all of us- her family and the taxpayers- a great deal. She did receive disability, Medicare and Medicaid. She lived in a group home for 30 years. No middle class family, however well educated and professionally employed, can afford 30 years of a group home with an average $3600 a month charge and going up. There but for the grace of God go all of us.
This is mean spirited and crazy as well. We'd rather have people stay sick and contagious, not immunized because they are terrified it will affect their citizenship chances far down the line ?
28
Congress is not listening to their constituents. We call and write, and still they vote with Trump and their radical right-wing donors.
Vote them out. We need public servants who serve the public.
52
@MaryGive it a rest. Our public servants are supposed to serve the American public.
2
@Maryng
Actually for once we have a president who is listening to his constituencies, American citizens.
3
Excellent piece.
Let's just acknowledge the truth. Trump and his advisers like Stephen Miller want to limit immigration by non-whites and are doing everything they can to achieve that goal
89
If it makes you feel better, and I'm guessing it won't, many of us think a country of 325 million plus, that is far beyond any sustainable level (5% of the worlds population using 25% of the resources) doesn't need anymore people from anywhere. We are the highest per capital co2 producers and every person you add, yes even people of color, makes GW worse. I know, that still makes me a "xenophobic racist" but it's also still the truth.
1
nightmarish. we were all warned in grade school about this, by the poem on the wall.
first they came for Muslims.
then they came for brown families.
then they came for all refugees.
then they came for all immigrants.
if people think they're "safe" in a country steered by blind hatred and attacks on the leaders' enemies, they're deeply fooled.
there's a majority of us who know exactly what that poem said. if we stand around acting helpless in the face of morally repulsive governance, we'll answer for it one way or another. we know we have an obligation to challenge and resist unjust laws. even governing officials know that "I was just following the law" isn't going to help you if you discover you're destroying people's lives - people who are most vulnerable to harm. this is the lesson we learned from history. speak up, act, resist, vote.
15
It's time we stopped spending trillions on wars that cause more migration to the US than any other factor.
30
It is not wars that are causing this wave. It is over population, example, Mexico and Central America’s and Africa’s population has gone up 4x since 1960. There is no economic system real or imagined that can support these numbers. They have nothing to do and, understandably want out. That doesn’t mean we have to take them. The other is climate change. The devastated environment (from over population) is being ruined further by climate change. This storm of a world where the number of humans goes up 80 million per year and the environment gets worse needs a solution besides moving everyone west. Given the numbers that won’t work even short term.
4
The Left is so rabidly anti-Trump that even sound policies advanced by his administration....that actually serve the interests of our own citizenry and were, in fact, promoted by previous administrations ....are denounced and vilified. As a moderate liberal, I’m sick and tired of the Left forcing their ‘Resistance’ agenda down our collective throats 24/7. Stop it!
19
@Shenoa
Everyone who finds Stephen Miller's America repulsive (including his own family) is not of the Left; it's just that the so-called right who supports him at all costs, has contorted their way so far down the Extremist Right Wing they completely lost perspective of any moral compass. It's Right Versus Wrong, not Right versus Left.
4
@Shenoa
Isn't it telling that nowadays 'Resistance' effectively stands for 'humanity'? Simply humanity with no irrelevant qualifiers ('citizenry', 'moderate liberal') attached.
1
We need an immigration plan not dominated by fear, extreme abuse of power and retroactive changes. We need a leader who can express both the advantages of immigration and the dangers and not adopt the lazy attitude that characterizes the GOP that TCM below admires. What do you want?All White All Christian America? Why in the world would you not want to learn about someone else’s culture? That doesn’t change our laws. What that reveals is a lack of confidence in our own beliefs You can probably add a bunch of other names you left out. Who’s going to be your slaves or the ones that will work cheap? We have to import good ideas. We have to be exposed to different cultures to grow. We can certainly set limits by increasing quota from certain countries for 7-12 years so communities can be built but not endlessly so they are now unable to get jobs because we are bringing in people for the same jobs. It saves public money. We should also spread the immigrants over all levels of economic success so that we avoid the self righteous arguments China is hardly an example of diversity of thought and that will always be our advantage. Democrats have to come up with more middle of the road ideas. The GOP spawns hateful ideas that promote discrimination and use an iron fist and not their brains and courage.
7
And the converse; an immigration policy that supports the needs of the country and not a desire for the easy life, free from any constraints on taxation, health and safety laws.
5
Trump is playing to a base of people who are just plain unwilling to deal with the complexities of reality. Immigration serves our national interest but all they see is a bunch of people who were not born here bringing ways of living that are unlike with what they identify.
Like all prosperous countries our birth rate amongst those born and raised here is too low to avoid the aging out phenomena which can lead to economic decline. Immigrants avoid those consequences.
American practice is to pay nerdy folks who make our high tech world possible good enough to prosper modestly but give the lions share to those who manage people, which basically acts as a giant disincentive for Americans to learn math and science. This means that this country demands foreign born people educated in math and science to function and improve it’s necessary technologies.
5
This is pretty close to a worthless article. If you're going to write a piece about theses issues you should clearly explain both the current rules and the proposed changes, the history of the "public charge" rule, the proposed scope and timing of the regulations, how these rules will operate, prospectively or retroactively, whether those in the country now will be affected, which benefits are involved, and so on. This is a disservice to readers.
22
@Frunobulax Some context would also be nice. Pretty much all countries have similar rules about immigrants becoming public charges.
11
It is so difficult to differentiate between legal and illegal in any article the NYT prints in relationship to immigration.
This has to be clarified time and again in order to fully understand what it is that is being presented. The blur between the two (legal or illegal) creates different narratives and outcomes.
Bottom line is any one who is in our country illegally should NOT be receiving ANY form of benefits. Period.
26
Beyond the fact that this article’s about LEGAL immigrants, let me apologize profusely for my sick, commierat, immoral belief that kids, moms, and working guys shouldn’t be starved, denied medical care, or treated like dirt because they’ve committed the misdemeanor of sneaking into this country.
Sorry. Wait’ll folks find out that I even believe they’re entitled to due process and certain legal protections. And I sure hope nobody beats me up because I actually believe the bit about “all..are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.”
Terrible, really.
4
@Elle This is about LEGAL immigrants who are here with proper documentation, have proven the legality of their documents, have gone through the due process, and are going to be denied their permanent residency (a necessity if one wants to get citizenship later) if they have used any public assistance. So as a green card holder, if you lose your job, and are required to use food stamps until you find another job, your green card could potentially be revoked. There is nothing confusing about this in this article or any other articles in the NYT. If you don't understand it at first, read it again. Highlight the points, underline important details, take notes, and then make sense of the article. This is a strategy that will be useful when you are reading anything that has important FACTS, INFORMATION, and/or opinion. Stop bashing the NYT for your lack of understanding, and hold your government accountable for behaving in the same vein as the Nazis did right before the second world war.
6
@Elle ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Matthew 25:40
4
I'd like to know the source of the studies referenced in this article.
"Immigrant families tend to use less health services than nonimmigrants, studies show, thus helping keep down health care costs for the wider population."
It seems to imply that immigrants are healthier than others. That seems ridiculous.
10
@GretOK
Predominantly young people choose to immigrate, so the immigrant population in the US is younger and therefore healthier on average than the non-immigrant population. There's nothing unusual about this, it's a self-selection effect, and such effects are present in every subset of a population you consider. The audience of a Bieber concert will also be healthier than those who don't go to Bieber concerts for the exact same reason: lower average age.
6
If this concept is implemented, good bye to any pretense that we are a Christian nation.
7
@Farrel: WE aren’t. This is, as it was designed, a SECULAR nation. Where each can & should believe or not, as THEY wish.
I am a Spiritual Jesus Believer. I don’t believe in christian churches as those in them have fallen by the side of the road as far as Jesus’ teachings. But then starting around the time of Paul is when those beliefs started, leaving Jesus behind.
I suggest you listen to a song by Kris Kristopherson: Jesus Was A Capricorn. It explains it well.
Why stop there? How about children of legal immigrants born here? I am a grandchild of legal immigrants, U.S. citizens when they died. Maybe my 96-year old Dad in a nursing home should be deported. Why not me, too? A line has to be drawn or the madness will extend to affect everyone.
13
reading the comments on this article I see why there is little outrage that undocumented children are still separated from their children. The comments seem to suggest they approve of the "zero tolerance" policy impulsively implemented by Trump. Demonstrating that hate and fear are a alive and well making America great again.
12
While your article makes clear the self-defeating foolishness of Trump's anti-immigrant policies, and the cruelty it involves, we need to recognize one thing: cruelty is part of the intent. As Times readers, we (usually) engage in rational discourse and appeal to people's compassion. But the dark side of human nature involves wanting some people to suffer. The German's call it schadenfreude.
Who do we want to suffer? "Them." Who are "they?" Take your pick. Immigrants, blacks, people of Hispanic background, LGBT people, the non-cool kids, the powerless, the poor. For the Hutus it was the Tutsis; for the Nazis it was the Jews. One could go on and on.
I see at least three main factors. First, we define ourselves as superior "us" by selecting others as inferior "them." We build our shaky sense of self-worth by looking down on others.
Secondly, to build that sense of superiority, we get rid of our own self-hatred, doubt, failings, etc. by projecting it onto "them." Third, we are angry about a mess of personal things- hurts, failures ("I could of been a contender"), personal slights, imperfect parents, a universe that doesn't care. Nothing better than a scapegoat for that anger.
There is no easy solution. But a first step is to get real with who we are- our own vulnerable, imperfect selves- by reowning our projections. That will help with getting to a realization that we are all more human than otherwise. Yes, it ain't easy.
12
@Peter Wolf
Agree with all of this. I think there is a solution: starting at a very early age, perhaps from kindergarten, we need to educate kids of the concept of Otherness and all the damages it inflicts on society. It's difficult because our brains are still pre-wired essentially for tribal warfare, that's why we need to address and try to revert the now-inapplicable pre-wiring early.
@UA I fully agree, but first we have to get the adults to see things that way, because they are the politicians and educators.
@UA: Since, from what I have seen in 67 years, it’s those who feel totally inferior to everyone,except those just like them (i.e. white ‘supremecists’ I call ‘inferiorcists’). They must have everyone else labeled ‘other’. Since all inferiorcists are not all whites, it is not tribal. But,it is class. Though an inferiorcist can be wealthy (usually by some form of illegality at least in the beginning), their kids are usually trained up in the same way. Those who come from the same area, who are made by their parents, church, schools, to work hard both in school & outside, tend to actually graduate, leave (into the military often, then maybe college), never coming back. They do not remain inferiorcists, though it is not easy when they hear & see inferiorcists around all the time with their bigotry. Then they need the help of the family they have created out of good friends, & if they have one, their spouse.
After so many years, is Mr. Tam an American Citizen now?
4
Let's set aside the hysterical hyperbole and look at some actual facts from the NYT:
First, nobody who already has a green card will have it taken away because they used government services. This rule change will apply to those who are seeking to get a greencard. Per the Times, "The move is not intended to affect most immigrants who have already been granted green cards."
Second, it's not about persecuting desperately poor people. It's about rooting out those who abuse the system. Per the Times, "The 447-page rule, titled “Inadmissibility on Public Charge Grounds,” will not apply to families making less than 15 percent of the official poverty designation, officials said."
Nor is this something that would always result in deportation even for those immigrants who get back on their feet. Per the Times, "Immigrants could be asked in limited cases to post cash bonds of at least $10,000 to avoid being denied green cards under the new regulation"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/22/us/politics/immigrants-green-card-pub...
This a common sense new rule. America already gives the rest of the world more than $40 billion in foreign aid. At a certain point, the gravy train has to stop. It's time to focus on our own country. Rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. Address the opioid crisis. Make college affordable for the native born. Cut taxes for the middle and lower class (no more tax cuts for the wealthy). Tackle climate change.
25
@JP.
"America already gives the rest of the world more than $40 billion in foreign aid. At a certain point, the gravy train has to stop." Does not tale into account EVERYTHING the world has handed to America. The BEST came and prospered DESPITE the hurdles they had to overcome and went on to build America, the same America you want to claim as yours alone. Immigrants ARE the best of America.
13
@JP who on earth would have $10,000 to post as a cash bond? I don’t know of many even moderate income people who have such cash on hand.
7
@JP - I'm coming to believe that when my grandfather emigrated from Prussia in the 1880s, was denied entry to the US and settled in Ontario instead, we should have taken it as final. Looks like these new 'rules' are very likely to become retroactive.
5
My father came to the US 60 years ago, from the Middle East, to pursue an education. He met & married my mother, who was born and raised in Ohio.She is of Welsh, Irish and German stock, going back at least 2 generations. We moved from Ohio to a small town in Indiana when I was 6 months old, so my dad could take a teaching position, where he stayed for 36 years. We were not sponsored, my dad had consistent employment and paid taxes. My mother was a stay-at-home mom. We were contributing members of society. I recently had someone from my hometown extoll the virtues of the townspeople for "welcoming and supporting" my family when we moved to Indiana from "the Middle East"". He wanted to know if I was grateful for that. I am grateful for people who treated us well, and welcomed us (although there were many bigoted people who were very cruel about our background, but that's to be expected), but he honestly felt we were beholden to the townspeople, that we were somehow less, and owed more, because my father was not born in the US.
13
Well, I hope you were able to clarify that your parents were able to manage without that suggested indebtedness. It's important to make sure credit is given when it is due.
I think there has to be some distinction between getting assistance for a short period of time vs abusing the system. I am a legal immigrant and I hope to get my mom to move here. We are from China and I know many parents have multiple houses in China and receive retirement stipend but get assisted housing in the US. So i do think there is some legitimacy in the proposal but for people who need help to start or in time of crisis, there should be a distinction.
14
@Cindy Sounds like your parents have a nice lifestyle in China. Why would they want to come here and live in an assisted housing?
4
I am 100 % in favor of these restrictive regulations. Why ?? because I want my government to do the same down here.
12
@Jorge: What are you doing about it?
I think any young man, man, young woman, or woman should be able to come here from countries in trouble. Those who are of the proper ages would be trained as soldiers, armed, & sent home to fight for their countries. Those women with small children, children, old women, would be taken to empty military camps, given everything to make a life there, with guards outside to keep our bigots away, while husbands, brothers, sisters, parents get trained & fight. Oh, being fat or uneducated would not keep you out of these armies. Those people would just have to work harder. If both parents die in their war, the children would be put up for adoption (very young) here, older, with members of their community. Once stablized the elderly, the children, the mothers of infants would be repatriated to their homeland. All would know this when allowed in. They’d be trained to kill any other soldier who tries to go over to the gangs. Those families, except small children, would be sent home immediately. To be delt with by their army. It’s better than what happened with Europeans in WW2, where the men escaped, their families left in the custody of the Nazis. We should be willing to train any nationality that wishes to fight for the freedom of their country. Keeping their families safe. It wouldn’t be permanent. It would be humanitarian. If you won’t fight for your country, why should another country take you in? Would you fight for that one if needed?
Technically, the laws on the books about immigrants already state that they are not to become a drain on the rest of us but be supported by their families. SO harsh as these may seem, to many of you, think FIRST about OUR own vulnerable population, especially the very young and the very old. I think we owe these who are ALREADY here and are our citizens these helps FIRST.
22
@Franklin
You must be a Bernie Sanders supporter, then?
The biggest drain on the budget is the military. Even taking a fraction of a fraction of what they use would not reduce American might and be enough to eliminate homelessness and end poverty in America.
7
Immigrants are also already here. I see no reason to deny any human help in bad times.
3
@KS, I agree with you regarding needing to cut the military budget. However, as a constituent of Bernie Sanders, I have learned first-hand that he talks a big talk but walks the Lockheed-Martin walk whenever it matters. Bernie Sanders has repeatedly fully embraced military Keynesianism, including the budget-busting F-35 fighter jet that John McCain called a fraud on the taxpayer. Bernie has placed the basing of this jet ahead of the health and home values of thousands and thousands of his constituents, including those whose health and home values will be negatively impacted by the new "not suitable for residential use zone." The working poor, immigrant refugees, the elderly, veterans, etc. People Bernie pretends to care about and then refuses to meet with. An area coveted by real estate developers hoping to convert the area to hotels and other commercial real estate. Don't think voting Democrat or "Progressive" makes any difference when even the supposedly progressive Bernie Sanders, in a totally safe seat in a "blue" state, still prioritizes the military-industrial complex first.
I have a special needs son who is 100% dependent on me and my wife. He now receives $400 a month in disability and medicaid. If it weren't for me and my wife, however, he would be out on the street. I so worry about him after we are gone. I'm not complaining about the help he does receive, but I do know that if I didn't have a job and a paid-off house, he'd be receiving more. Anyway, it's very painful. I can't help but resent it when people who aren't citizens come to this country and receive as much or more support than my son. Disabilities are difficult and painful. Nobody can wave a magic wand and make them go away. But I do think that something has to give. People want our Federal government to support health needs for everybody, including newcomers. It's just not possible to do everything, sad to say.
25
@david
One obvious thing that can "give" is reducing the military budget by around 1-5%. It wouldn't reduce American might, and it would render all other questions pertaining to poverty and healthcare irrelevant.
16
@david
The problem isn’t legal immigration, as if legal immigrants themselves had the power to institute government benefits - the problem is decades of irresponsible policy and the general direction of the country that has been steered by the influence of a capitalist minority.
When you look at countries that have universal health care, nobody is left sick or unable to afford preventive care. It’s not even an issue.
When you look at countries with universal education funds that enable anyone to get higher education up to university level, education isn’t a problem. Some of those countries have both and even a paid year of maternity and paternity leave for new parents. Just common sense provisions for the basic needs of any person living in a developed country.
If we had more focus on meeting people’s basic needs instead of turning them over to self-regulating marketplaces, we would not be in this mess in the first place.
2
It would be nice if there was just an occasional opinion piece from a native born American citizen who could explain why he or she wasn't supportive of increased immigration.
Instead all we get is lectures from legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, or relatives of those two groups who think (surprise) that the US must bring in MORE immigrants.
Just an occasional piece that wasn't all in on more immigrants all the time would be wonderful. I think people across the political spectrum would be better served if various voices could be heard in the paper of record--even if the NYT as is its right, comes down on one side.
25
Switch native born American citizen to Native American, as in Cherokee or Navajo, and ask them about immigration.
3
@Steven Hayes
Well as a person of Native American ancestry I can tell you many Native Americans can use the help before it is doled out to immigrants. I can also say I wish my ancestors had stopped more immigrants. Last, I wish people would realize Cherokee and Navajo were far from being the only indigenous people here.
@Lilo
The qualifier “native born American” smacks of Hitler’s government chart on blood purity in the 1940s. They had literal charts issued by the Reich delineating acceptable levels of blood purity based on whether a person had Jewish parents or grandparents.
Two questions: Are you implying that a native born American citizen is worth more than a naturalized American citizen?
And since you feel safe enough to qualify “native born” as a distinction of someone whose opinion you value more, if this issue extended “native born” qualifications to your parents, grandparents, etc, is the opinion of an American citizen who has the longest uninterrupted line of “native born” American citizens even more valuable and in your imaginary caste system?
1
According to this opinion piece, everything about "immigrants" is better than citizens. They do everything "less" of the "bad" things, and everything "more" of the "good" things.
Somehow it's hard to believe.
Other reputable studies have show that a majority of immigrants are on some sort of public assistance long after they have arrived.
Should those here now all be deported? Perhaps not.
Should we (the USA) continue an immigration policy that encourages and rewards immigration based on the real expectation of long-term, indefeasible government-funded help?
Absolutely not.
23
What reputable studies? Link them if they exist.
3
@smacc1 .Most studies show that immigrants are healthier than Americans and give more to the economy than they take. Plus, they provide the labor of jobs most Americans won't take.
Certainly, you can choose to believe the GOP propaganda that immigrants are bad for America and ignore the studies that prove the GOP's position is based on prejudice, not data, but that's your personal perogative.
6
@smacc1
The reason why immigrants seem "better" than citizens born here is a self-selection effect. Only younger, healthier, and more tenacious people on average _choose_ to immigrate, because moving to another country is difficult. This doesn't mean that foreigners are in any way "better" than Americans. It just means the foreigners _who chose to move here_ by definition have had to pass through hurdles that US citizens by birth haven't, and these hurdles select for certain traits. Such selection effects are nothing unusual and are present in every subset of a population you consider.
2
Immigrants should not be ‘doing jobs citizens don’t want to do’. If citizens won’t take those jobs there is something wrong with the jobs. They aren’t paying enough or are exceedingly dangerous - employers are bypassing labor laws by hiring people who won’t be able to complain or quit. Protect the workers and imprison the employers for coercive labor practices.
46
@AG Easy to say. You know the Republican Party is faithful to Corporate America and not you and me. This is the reason we have illegal immigration in the first place. Cheap and exploitable labor for corporate america and then blame illegal immigration on the illegal immigrants themselves. Convenient business model?
If you don't want illegals here in the USA, then STOP GIVING THEM JOBS!!
2
@mrpisces: I think once they stop illegal immigration, every republican should have to give at minimum, one natural (non adopted, that would be cheating) child to all the manual labor jobs the immigrants (legal or illegal) do when they get here. Farm hands, landscaping, sex worker, laundry workers, snow shovelers, sanitation workers (fastest growing immigrant jobs), etc. Without changing the safety or pay. They can start, without any schooling, at 7. Or illegal immigration can just continue as the rich really want. If we are fighting immigrants we own’t notice how things are getting worse for us because of the filthy rich.
Not to worry! If the GOP has its way, ultimately citizens won't get food stamps, publicly funded education, Medicaid, Medicare, or Social Security Benefits either.
32
Ultimately if citizens need help the they could have their citizenship stripped from them.
6
We know! Immigrants are generally decent people who just want a better life. Many of them work hard and start businesses and pay taxes. And we’re a nation of immigrants. And it’s so heartwarming that we’re getting browner. We get it!
Now can we get real and acknowledge that times have changed since the 1800s when the Europeans came here? And that half the world would come here if they could and we can’t accommodate everybody?
22
@Max
Times haven't changed. And there's a lotta space still Out West ...
2
So they left their countries and came here because they couldn't make it. Then when they got here they couldn't make it and needed public benefits. That's called a pattern of behavior and not a good one. Something we definitely should not be importing.
18
@Hellen People who use public benefits typically use them for short periods of time after they lose a job or become ill and cannot work. Have some compassion - they’re already not allowed cash welfare, so we’re really talking about Medicaid and Food Stamps mostly.
15
@Cam
They are applying for benefits as soon as they arrive or drop a baby on American soil.
You must also be under the illusion that citizens have easy access to health insurance and never have to struggle putting food on their tables. We should be helping them before we help foreign nationals.
Also the benefits are finite not endless and have to be stretched more because of immigrants. That's why they left their countries that are overpopulated and lack resources. Some of us don't want the same thing to happen here.
@Cam They are also used and abused by those who come here and choose not to assimilate, learn the language, get a job, etc. but choose to milk the system because they can.
So, it looks like Trump wants any immigrant here for years on a green card who is working at Walmart and has used Food Stamps in the past to now be deported? The irony is that Food Stamp benefits have been cut so drastically that anyone employed and who has any significant income no longer qualifies for much, of any food assistance. It would be horrific to see people who have been here for many years just be thrown out of the country. Also any immigrant who might have received charity care at an ER could be thrown out as well. Where does the xenophobia end?
8
It's hilarious to see just how regressive large swaths of the NYT readership is when it comes to immigration. You can rail against the illegals all you want, but the truth is that Capital and Government have been working in tandem since well before Reagan to create conditions that encourage economic migrants to come to the Land of Prosperity, deny them citizenship, and then exploit them with low wages and unsafe working conditions because the migrants have little legal recourse. You want to end illegal immigration? Cancel Latin America's predatory debts, start jailing (yes, jailing, not fining, actually imprisoning) managers and executives of companies that use illegal immigrants, and invest in education in the Global South.
13
Pkease don't bring up past and administratons.
Just because our elected representatives worked against our interests to favor some corporate desire for cheap labor in the past is No Good Reason to continue to do so.
And we need to make sure a living wage is offered for future time work, and allow enough to cover medical insurance stuff the same time. We have OSHA fir on the job safety - maybe we need to establish a new agency to support and advocate for American workers.
3
People are legitimately sick of the notion that no matter what, the immigrant always, always wins. Time for a change.
24
@Djt Huh? Is that some kind of secret code?
6
@Djt
So said the Native American to the Pilgrim.
2
@Djt
People are legitimately sick of people who think being an American born citizen means they can look down on others that came here legally. pay taxes, and give birth to American born citizens, no different from them .
3
Seemingly unless the hand out you got was millions from your own father (hello, Donald!) you're not worthy to be here. Trump and his Republican toadies should just be straight up and say they hate everyone who's not just like them and be done with it. Really, of course, this is just more red meat for the base (which, if it consumes it, is getting baser all the time).
8
@Bob Trosper: no matter how much you may hate him, Donald Trump is a native-born US citizen.
1
The Republicans and Trump make me ill. The greed and selfishness and corruption of the soul that drives their policies is disgusting. The Republicans have NO policies that provide or support the common good of this country. Their policies are to take apart everything that benefits society, health care, education, no infrastructure plan, undoing environmental regulations, all it seems for benefit of the few, the rich, the donor.
8
This is a Trump, Sessions, Nielsen and GOP 'pogrom' against immigrants, and it was just last month that Trump was also attacking U.S. citizens of color by stating that many of them living in states along the Southern Border had false birth certificates! Every one of the three are descendants of immigrants themselves.
There is so much injustice, unfairness, bigotry, evil and cruelty happening in this lawless administration that it defies belief most of the time. What is happening to America? As American citizens we are all persecuted and hounded by Trump and the GOP every day as far as their support of legislation against the majority of Americans and paid for by the wealthy to obscenely wealthy donors to Trump and the GOP. Immigrants don't have a chance.
Gee, I am so glad Melania was able to get her parents here through 'family unification' but then again she and they are not people of color so there was no problem and Trump didn't call it an act of 'chain migration'. Here he is folks, our Racist-in-Chief.
Trump is truly the 'enemy of the people' as far as I am concerned whether you have a birth certificate, a green card, or a visa.
26
For Trump's base, none of this is really about immigration at all. "Immigrant" is just a code word that translates into "not white". They don't hate immigrants. They hate everyone who doesn't look like them.
31
Many of the comments are downright scary. Write them in German and substitute Jew for immigrant and what does it remind you of? I can't tell if this hatred is what we have become or if it was there all along and the current administration has just given it permission to express itself. In either case we need to regain our sense of who and what ideals America has always stood for however imperfectly it has achieved those objectives. We must keep striving and not succumb to our worst instincts.
25
@GM: I AM a Jew and your comment is despicable.
My immigrant ancestors -- all European Jews FLEEING pogroms and genocide -- never took ONE PENNY of welfare. My grandmother worked in a SWEAT SHOP for years. They all lived in a tiny, one room apartment (hovel, really). THEY NEVER TOOK WELFARE.
5
It saddens me how many wrote that immigrants feel entitlement, or come her to take advantage of our good nature. Others say that immigrants are responsible for stagnant wages.
When have so many become so uneducated and are fine just parroting GOP propaganda.
I find this scarier than the fact that our country is being hijacked my multimillionaires hiding behind the guise of conservatism.
19
@Gaucho54 The country is changing. And it's changing faster than ever. No one voted for that. When Spanish speaking people refuse to serve English speaking customers in the USA, it's fair for American citizens to ask some questions about exactly who is benefiting from the wave of immigration from Latin America (and Asia).
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/hialeah/arti...
It's not just about parroting GOP propaganda. Immigration does not serve the interests of everyone in the US. It is legitimate to talk about that. It is legitimate to ask how many immigrants we need and if they are assimilating as quickly or as easily as past immigrants.
13
@Lilo
This country has never stopped changing, of being a country of immigrants. There have always angry blocks of people who take out their frustrating on those they see as the "other". Time and time again they have bee proven wrong. Look back at your family roots. Were they welcomed here when they arrived in this country? Did they deserve to be threatened and treated cruelly because they found themselves i need?
He is not targeting them. He is enforcing a law that was just updated.
I don't understand the upset. I thought these immigrants were so great and never taking anything. Supposedly they worked harder and pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. Obviously we have been told a lot of lies and a lot of them are takers. Tens of millions taking benefits and how do they get housing when there are Americans sitting on a waiting list?
21
@Hellen... well Hellen, I’m one of them. Still a Green Card Holder, working in this Country for 24 years now. Paying my dues, bringing in my share and trying to be a true member of this Society . I never took anything for granted, working in a Profession where US Citizens are hard to find due to the lack of available job education as there is no cariculum for it in this Country. I’m proud of my accomplishments, the support I’m able to give.
It saddens me to read general, dismissive comments like yours as it reminds me of my own countries shameful past and betrayal...
Maybe you should give it another thought. I might be paying for your benefits after all.
Sincerely yours
A (German) Legal Immigrant
50
@George
I wish I could recommend your reply a thousand times.
@George
In other words you couldn't get a job in your native country. Actually many highly educated Americans have come across immigrants like you. We train you. The truth is your skills are subpar and you came to America as a second draft worker willing to work cheaper in exchange for a visa.
US citizens hard to find in a field? That is one of the biggest myths and lies perpetrated by the corporate owned media. It is why Trump was elected and they can't understand why American citizens are fed up.
Sorry to burst your stereotype but this American was able to take an early retirement on a nice salary thanks to being born during a time when American workers were put first, not foreign born workers.
Our immigration policy is being distorted by the misguided, nationalistic strategy hatched by Steve Bannon, and advocated by his wooden dummy Trump. Trump tells his “base” immigrants are parasites and criminals; but he is not merely aware of the industious qualities of new immigrants, but an actual beneficiary of legal and illegal immigrant labor. He has married two immigrants and his current wife benefitted from his much maligned “chain migration.”
Trump’s hypocrisy is blantant, but his “base” is willfully blind.
25
The NYT editorial board helped elect Trump by espousing open borders. The vast majority of Americans--including a plurality of Democrats--want strict enforcement of immigration laws, and want reduced immigration, according to a Harvard (University)-Harris poll from last January.
Trump won because Clinton was for open borders, which she demonstrated during one of the debates when she told the reporter from Univision that no, she would not deport anyone.
The Democrats need to change our tune on immigration if we want to run the country again.
Here, by the way, are two very sensible op-eds published last year by the NYT, written by Harvard University's George Borjas, the premier immigration economist, which describe what the debate on immigration needs to be about, and what would be a humane compromise on immigration, respectively.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/opinion/the-immigration-debate-we-nee...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/opinion/trump-immigration-dreamers.ht...
18
The problem is that Americans must insist that most of what Trump is doing be blocked by Congress. But the system has been hijacked, and the GOP strategy of overwhelming Americans with such a large number of right wing/rich boy initiatives is working - who has the time and energy to fight every move they make? And that inertia seems to have gripped our Democratic reps as well.
I hope legal immigrants are in positions to fight for their own rights, because I'm not sure how much help from others they can count on at this point. The rest of us are busy watching the American way of life - as defined by the Constitution - be flushed down the toilet.
3
Republicans have decided that immigration has been a net evil destroying American society, or at minimum all non-white immigration has been so. They want to reverse the severe damage as much as they can. The approach here is just one of many ways to attack the “problem”. Cruel maybe/effective likely
I have several immigrant friends, all exceptionally successful PhD’s and engineers who are moving back to their home country because it is just so miserable to be here anymore. Ultimately that is the Republican solution—wipe out interest in coming here. There will be huge trade offs. But The South and farm states that control the Republican Party are more than ready to pay any price to stay whiter
The message to immigrants: it’s just going to get much worse. Get out if you can
9
Changing the rules in the middle of the game is the very definition of unfairness. People who came here legally and abided by the rules that applied at the time, relying on those rules to build productive lives, should not find themselves and their families exposed to terrible legal consequences by rule changes that apply retroactively to their past actions.
That said, this article states a badly confused case. The article is about legal immigrants who do not have permanent residence, or green cards. But it begins with an anecdote about an immigrant who came here 50 years ago - is the author really suggesting that he has been in temporary status all that time? If so, is there some reason he didn't or couldn't get permanent status, even citizenship, over the course of half a century?
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
13
While I am happy that someone is writing about the proposed "public charge" changes that came out Saturday in the middle of every scandal storm conceivable and got backpaged, I think that Dr. Nguyen and Ms. Hirota need to do more to understand, or to help the public understand, what the public charge provisions are, and how they are implemented. The law says the government should determine whether or not an applicant for change of status is likely to become a public charge. The document is changing the way that determination is made. The change of status here is when someone gets a green card, the other one is citizenship, not in the document.
The proposed rule changes are to include "non-monetized" aid in determining whether an applicant for change of status. Some of the groups highlighted by these two authors are actually exempted from it -- CHIP in all its forms is exempted, for instance -- but that isn't the most dangerous part. The most dangerous part is that it attempts to normalize the assessment of "non-monetized" government services as an assessment of people receiving some sort of, as the Republican call them, "entitlement." That feeds the right-wing rhetoric about people coming here to get something for free, and it's a very slippery slope.
Dr. Nguyen and Ms. Hirota also put this proposal at the feet of Jeff Sessions. In truth, the document was issued by DHS, so it should be attributed to Kirstjen Nielsen's cruelty shop, not the Attorney General.
1
By this measure, the administration should also go after everyone, including citizens, who receive any kind of government benefits. Would this not mean that large corporations and wealthy individuals, who benefit massively from the tax code and from dozens of laws that were written for them, should also be "sent home"? Shall we consider a wholesale reevaluation of our entire system? Maybe. Because that would be one simple way of sending our president back to Europe where his ancestors came from.
16
@Peace
There you go. Another person who doesn't understand the difference between citizens whom we are obligated to help and non citizens who should be helped by their own country.
13
Who beyond native Americans would this not apply to? The GOP has had purity tests for many years - and look where that had gotten them. Where does it end? Xenophobia has no conclusive end point.
6
@Peace the president was born here
5
I cannot think of a better way to keep skilled immigrants out of America than this sort of action. America is becoming a country where there is no room for people to make mistakes of any sort, no room for working people who will never be rich and may require public assistance at some point in their lives, and definitely no place for minorities except for one: rich white males who think like Trump, the Koch Brothers, the Adelsons, etc.
We never were an extremely welcoming country to foreigners but this is much worse than being unwelcoming. This is catering to fear that is not real. Most of us are descended from immigrants and we're much closer to that original ancestor than we'd like to think we are. But if we want to deny our heritage and the hard work it took our immigrant ancestors to make it here this is a great way to do so.
We will truly be a country run for and by the uber rich. We will resemble South Africa at the peak of apartheid more than we will resemble the United States on the eve of being the United States. We continue to vote in people who support policies that underpay employees, allow for illegal immigrants to be hired without penalties, and don't allow us any rights as employees. When there's no one left to live here because it's completely unaffordable what will become of America? Wastelands are rarely productive.
19
@hen3ry
Immigrants have always been barred from being on the public dole. The problem is that law was ignored just as the rule of law has been ignored at the border.
It is about time we had a president who enforced the rules. If people don't like it they can immigrate to other countries but they won't because other countries enforce their laws.
19
There is a considerable block of people in this country who believe in modern day indentured servitude. It took this nation more than 200 years to correct some of the inequities that improved our democracy. These policies are taking us back. When will we take away the vote from women, minorities and non-land owners. That would have seen absurd a few years ago. Now I’m not so sure
9
@Hellen There are more rich people on public dole than illegal immigrants. Rich people simply avoid paying taxes altogether and hide their money elsewhere while the working Americans and immigrants pay taxes.
Also, the law on taxes for the rich are either ignored or re-written to suit them.
Our official language in the USA is not English. It is $$$.
2
Really, can we please distinguish between refugees (who will need handouts) whom we take in because they have suffered natural disasters or political persecution in their home country, and economic immigrants (legal) who should be coming here for the opportunity (not the handouts) and illegal immigrants who should receive neither benefits nor sanctuary? We need to set (generous) quotas on the first two and shut down the third, including the coaching illegal immigrants get to pretend to be refugees.
22
@Chip: One reason why so many illegal immigrants find easy sanctuary here is that too many US citizens refuse to do the jobs that these immigrants do. Either because of the working conditions or the low pay. Until US citizens re-learn the value and importance of work, any work, we will need every willing worker we can get. Yes - regulating better will make the process less problematic in the long run, but we cannot do without them.
12
@Peace You wrote: "US citizens refuse to do the jobs that these immigrants do. Either because of the working conditions or the low pay."
Here's an idea -- how about if employers increase the pay so that Americans do want to do the jobs.
This would cut into corporate profits, executive pay, and shareholder dividends.
But this would make America a better place to live for 99% of the people.
All our problems started when corps started putting profits over people.
~
@Peace
I can't believe you are still trying to push that narrative. Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration has resulted in more Americans employed at jobs you claim they wouldn't do.
Obviously these immigrants aren't working hard enough if they need public assistance. Get a 2nd or third job, many Americans you claim are lazy have more than one job.
The economy is red hot, the stock market is booming, surely there is plenty for everyone.. and more?
7
@Frank Underwood not if you aren't a white male under the age of 50. If you are a skilled worker over the age of 50 who has lost a job for any reason finding another one can be nearly impossible. But this is the fault of businesses, not immigrants. Age discrimination in America is keeping more people unemployed than immigrants who are legal or illegal.
The real issue is that Trump and the GOP have tapped into American ignorance and fear of immigrants on economic and emotional levels. For the most part that fear is unrealistic. But it plays well when it comes to election campaigns. There's room for plenty of people in America as long as they remain compliant sheep.
8
The bizarre immigration non-policy in the US reinforces the dominant political theme of the last decades: privatize profits and socialize costs. Immigrants are being used as cheap labor and social programs are expected to pick up the tab!
24
@Frank Underwood
So this is a good thing, keeping those who can't support themselves from gaming our systems.
4
An excellent way to destroy the nation’s future.and to keep the dwindling spoils to the 1%
Trouble is...there will never be enough for them to be satisfied. Moves like this ....shake your head. Dumb as the people who propose them.
6
@AdamStoler
Because we should allow people to come here, when they can't fully support themselves? No, it's unfair to put that burden on the American taxpayer.
16
@AdamStoler
You clearly don't understand how the economy works. The rich love immigrants because they keep wages low thus allowing them to reap more profit.
6
There are success stories & then there is the endless line at my supermarket of men/woman who speak no English whatever and have to be prompted on how to use their Benefit's Cards
21
My grandparents were immigrants. My mom was born here and had difficulty learning English as she was only allowed a 6th grade education.
English is not an easy language to learn. So it is understandable that adults who have immigrated here may not have a fluent command of English and prefer to speak their native language.
I was raised in a language other than English. I continue to speak my native language and English fluently.
I love being bilingual.
16
My husband has to be prompted on how to use his credit card. People are free to speak whatever language they want to speak. The vast majority of immigrants learn English. My bilingual immigrant students speak and write English better than my students who only speak English.
9
@imamn "Benefit cards" would be proper English, actually. If you're going to criticize people for being bad at English, well, don't be bad at English while doing it.
I'm an English teacher, and I consistently note that my immigrant/refugee students write better than my "native-born" students.
7
For once I agree with the xenophobe in the White House. Let Americans born, raised and educated here fill the jobs that we permit cheaper labor from South and East Asia, as well as numerous other countries, to fill. H1B and H2B visas may soon become scarce as the proverbial hen's teeth and those people who bring over an extended tribal entourage from India or Pakistan under the auspices of a green card will have to reckon with folding their tents...they don't want to share our values or stay permanently except for the good money. Good riddance, I say.
19
@Tournachonadar Whenever I hear somebody using a phrase like "sharing our values," I can't help wondering to whom they are referring. I sincerely doubt that this writer and I share many basic values and I was born in NYC 68 years ago.
7
Too late.
2
uh...doesn't Mrs trump utilize government funds to travel, eat, entertain...
MAWA 2020 ... aka 1950
34
@red state. She is US citizen
7
@Bar tennant
She was undocumented, worked illegally and lied about it on her application. Any one of these is enough to revoke her citizenship but I guess that'll never happen.
And, the cherry on top of this hypocritical mess is that her parents got in through the EB-1 visa which is reserved for those with outstanding achievements in the sciences and arts. It's literally called the Einstein visa because you have to be a genius to get it. I don't see any outrage from anyone in the GOP.
Let's be honest, a sin is a sin only if the opposing party does it.
1
Diversity is not strength. Iraq is diverse, along ethnic, tribal, and sectarian lines. Yugoslavia was diverse. North and South America were extremely diverse prior to the arrival of British and Spanish settlers. Sub-Saharan African nations tend to be diverse, with Rwanda showing us a particularly nasty outcome, and so is Yemen. Look at the results; weakness, infighting, and civil war.
Nor are we “stronger together.” Tibetans are not stronger now that Han Chinese have moved in. The Han Chinese are not stronger because their borders include Uigher territory. The Germans are not stronger following Merkel’s Million Man March. The Swedes are not stronger for their refugee intake either. Nor are we stronger, with record high immigration and porous borders. And while the authors here cite the higher crime rates and unemployment of the “native born,” when you look into the demographic detail of such numbers, it’s our “diverse” non-British and non-European immigrant stock who drive those crime numbers higher.
The result of importing diversity is stagnant wages, public debt, political polarization and crime and violence. In every case.
But the world is waking up to this. We aren’t morally obligated to let a flood of Asians, Africans, and Latin Americans enter this country. As the current citizen shareholders, we are the ones who get to decide who enters, and who stays. I’ll be voting for Trump in 2020, and for a full GOP slate in November.
19
@Trans Cat Mom
I understand your logic, I agree to a certain extent, only because the immigrant volume exceeds capacity. In my mind, liberals have been way too liberal for too long, downright enabling illegal immigrants, especially from South America. At one point there was public discussion in California whether to actually give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, to make sure everyone on the road is a capable driver and to prevent car accidents. Total lunacy.
But allowing an aggressive, unbalanced anti-immigrant ideology to take root in government policy is extremely dangerous.
If you read Mein Kampf, you can see what grows out of the roots of a separatist and anti-immigrant ideology, and if you study pre- and post-WW2 Europe, you will see a carbon copy of what’s happening today.
Hitler was a democratically elected leader. He was the entertaining wild card outsider, the press at the time regularly published cartoons making fun of his little moustache while he was campaigning with energy and patriotic zeal. His platform was that he wanted to make the Reich great again, uniting Austria and other former Germanic territories, and purging the immigrant Jews, and everyone else of “impure” non-native blood. He blamed immigrants for economic problems, attacked the “Jewish-controlled press”, blamed Jews for taking German jobs (eventually forbidding certain jobs like banking to Jews).
Full grown, that ideology completely eroded the social fabric and the rest is history.
3
To think the unthinkable is to prepare for Trump and Republican inventions of new cruelties.
Meanwhile, the revocation of environmental protections for the sake of corporate profits is causing the disease, debility, and death of millions of Americans.
8
Echoes from the not too distant past. "First they came for..."
20
Imagine, becoming a legal resident but finding that's not good enough to stay here. The anti-immigration crowd has been screaming that people need to go through the process and become legal, but now even that's not enough? Has the term "legal" lost it's meaning? Who the heck is safe?
If we're going to rely on only American-born people, our population will dwindle away until there's not many left. The U.S. birth rate has been steadily declining over the years, and currently is at the lowest rate ever. There's simply no way we can continue without immigration.
15
@Ms. Pea, Not true. We need time to stabilize and integrate the current population. Endless growth is not tenable. ZPG is a good thing. We are at an all time high of recent immigrant arrivals. Time out. Half the amount of entrants, as per Barbara Jordan. And where do newcomers go and live anymore? We have a housing crisis everywhere.
3
The nyts and democratic immigration reform plan. If you can get here, you're home free. Doesn't matter if you sneak across the border, overstay a visa, come on a "temporary" emergency plan, visit, once you're here, it's like the hotel California, you never have to leave. In keeping with this, we should just send empty 747s around the world and start picking people up. It's not too late, we can catch China and surpass India as the most populous country on earth by mid century. Paradise is just around the corner. we simply need to stop pretending we have borders or laws like every other country on earth regarding immigration and border security.
18
@Al: Why is it that people from regions with the fewest immigrants express the strongest anti-immigration sentiments? According to https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-immigrant-po..., Idaho's immigration population is 3,000, or 0.17% of their total population of 1.7 million.
4
Gee sorry. I forgot only the coastal types get to have legitimate opinions. Not sure where the data came from but my county is ~20% Hispanic, the grade schools are 60%. Many are illegal. The fastest growing state is...IDaho. Fueled by lots of rich Californians fleeing PC, crowded, diverse, polluted, heaven. Some Americans like wild,free, beautiful, uncrowded spaces. Looking like China or India for some of us is not attractive.
1
First they came for the illegal immigrants but I did not care because I'm not an illegal immigrant.
Then they came for the legal immigrants but I did not care because I'm not a legal immigrant,
Then they came for xyz but I did not care because I'm not xyz,
Then they came for me......
14
Is there no end to the ridiculous and white supremacist rantings of this fool in the White House? Note that his in-laws were quickly citizenized before his anti-immigrant vomit spewed forth. This is not who America is. My grandmother came to America from Italy in 1906 at the age of 12 with her two younger sisters and brother in steerage on a ship. She learned English and became an accomplished seamstress, raised a daughter (my mother) who became a nurse at Johns Hopkins, married the son of another immigrant from Italy and became a PhD research chemist. I have a MS in Pharmacology and have served as a Marine officer in Vietnam and a contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was a successful consultant with Deloitte and Touche and Pricewaterhouse Coopers. Had trump been president, I would be a ghost.
18
So you cherry pick one example and doubtless there are more of people who made it (ie the 1%) and want us to set policy based on that, but the overwhelming majority of people on public assistance don't do anywhere near that well and some may remain on public assistance their whole lives (immigrants and citizens). This is just more pro-immigrant propaganda brought to us by (no surprise) the NY Times. The equivalent of this level of "logic" arguing for reduced immigration would be me citing that Jeff Bezos, the richest man alive, was born in the US therefore we don't need any immigrants.
14
@Keith How many corporations in the US are on eternal public assistance? Wake up, man.
6
What a short sighted and idiotic policy from this WH... By scaring the immigrants from accessing healthcare, it puts the entire society at risk of contracting treatable, communicable disease. Not only that, it's inhumane by forcing the parents to choose between getting a green card some time in the distant future and food/shelter for themselves and for their children now. Even if they do get their green card, how healthy -- mentally and physically -- will they be? The cost of untreated diseases will be very high. I just don't understand how we have to come this point where immigrants are considered to be simply lazy takers.
9
Please list the countries where American citizens can reside and receive welfare benefits from the host country. Thank you.
20
@ShenoaDir Not the point however, those rapists and drug dealers in Mexico provide healthcare to legal immigrants. It's in the Mexican Constitution because Mexico believes health is a right for all residents of Mexico. But your point is not the point. We're talking about legal immigrants here. Under US law they're not stealing these benefits they are entitled to them (kinda works like Mexico). No one's doing anything illegal. Maybe it's time to get the "rip off" chip off your shoulders and accept the fact you live in a generous, fair country that's going down the toilet. Everyone the world is not trying to rip you off.
1
Are immigrants getting free stuff — or are immigrants taking our jobs? Which is it? And btw, there are a number of first world nations where Americans can attend university—for free.
7
@Shenoa Off the top of my head, France, Germany, most western European countries, but that's not the point.
These people are here legally. They pay taxes. You are saying they should pay taxes and receive no portion of the services for which they are paying?
11
Hum, Medicare Part D is welfare? I'm an American liberal who always hated welfare and refused to participate in Medicaid when I was a poor farmworker, choosing a career change as a teacher because we don't have Medicare for everyone like other civilized countries that could have treated my asthma during harvest season. I met my Thai wife in LA where I started teaching after her employer, the Thai Ministry of Education, paid for her MA from USC and they required we repay her tuition if she ever wanted to visit our Thai family again. I sponsored her 12 year old daughter from a previous marriage and we had 2 kids and have 6 grandkids, now. Our joke about going out on a teacher's salary was going to the park, especially when she quite work to become a homemaker when our first son was born. Our oldest daughter qualified for subsidized school lunches, but you already read about my pride. My wife simply made lunch for her while I worked a second job. We're geezers now and launched our third career as small business owners 20 years ago. We paid the full boat for Medicare and Social Security, and continue to pay premiums not only for traditional Medicare but supplemental insurance and Part D. The thought that ICE could knock on our door some morning before dawn because Trump decided Medicare Part fD is welfare is frightening. The Trump administration is showing every day the dangers Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and George Mason, others warned about with a presidential monarchy.
30
Just invite every person in the world to come in the USA and give them all sorts of stuff!
21
Well, which is it? Immigrants are taking our jobs —or immigrants want “free stuff”?
3
@JePense
It's hard to even address this sort of nonsense....
3
@Zejee, Both.
My God!
I’ve been married for 51 years to a good man, who - because he loves the country he was born in - still holds a Green Card.
He earned a Ph.D. in the US, taught his native language and literature at US colleges and universities and was loved by his students. He has EARNED his Social Security and Medicare, including Part D. He has a retirement account as well.
At age 79 he is not well. His 24/7 Oxygen is supplied by a combination of Medicare and our Secondary Insurance from State Farm.
He is not well enough to travel to see his family in his native land. But if Trump decides to deport him, his native land long ago supplied him with a Health Card - so if they pay for special medical care to get him from here to his home country, he will not lack for good care. Indeed, one of our nephews in Madrid is a Pulmonologist and can treat him.
But this so-called policy is DESPICABLE! It is outrageous and abominable!
Trump is remaking this nation into a bullying international pariah as well as turning us into an inhospitable, dreadful place.
My husband grew up under a dictatorship. I hope to heaven that he doesn’t die under one - right here!
42
Donald Trump consistently gives life to the old saw "Penny wise, pound foolish" in his actions. It's like he doesn't see the bigger picture on this issue - or much of any other issues.
8
Once again- Many of you are missing the point. This isn't about (illegal or legal) immigrants- It's about the fear of all immigrants. The problem? It works.
You see, many immigrants have refused to integrate. They wish to speak their own language. They wish to dress, act and think like they are still living in Mexico, Suadi Arabia, China or Sudan. Many immigrants wish to teach us their ways of thinking. How we should adapt to their point of view. How we should change our laws to meet their needs and desires. Yet, if we were to demand the same thing, in their homeland, we would be deported within the hour.
Oddly enough; If you disagree with anything that Tung Nguyen and Sherry Hirota have written you are -clearly- a racist.
Do you see any problems with this arrangement? One that has been in place since 1965? Many do. Yet, I see it. I understand it. Many do not wish for the United States to take more people it can ill afford.
They say that history never repeats itself.
Those people have now been proven wrong.
17
@Allen Yeager: What do the new regulations have to do with your comment? These new regulations aren't directed toward immigrants who continue to speak their native language or who "dress, act, and think like they are still living" in their native countries. Nothing in these new regulations mentions that immigrants who want us to "adapt to their point of view" should be deported.
These issues are relevant only in your own mind. Maybe you believe that current green card holders should be deported for them, but they have nothing to do with the new regulations or this op-ed. Try to keep up.
3
What “ways of thinking” are you talking about? Yes immigrants want to maintain their mother tongue. Immigrants are bilingual and trilingual—and Americans who only speak English don’t like that. Yes they want to dress the way they want to dress and eat their native food. So? Don’t you like Chinese food? Mexican food?
4
There is nothing good about this president and this administration. It is evil. To all the evangelicals and conservative Christians and orthodox Jews and any other God fearing and believing American of any religion who voted for Trump...remember God punishes Evil.
11
I’d bet that most immigrants are smarter, work harder and contribute more to the success of America than any of Trump’s base who rely on public assistance by virtue of their residence in a red state*. Red staters contribute less and take more, and their leaders punish Blue staters by limiting our tax deductions. New Jersey receives just 74 cents in federal spending while Kentucky gets $1.90 for every tax dollar sent to Washington. If the Reds don’t want federal money funding “objectionable” programs, then I don’t want my money supporting Mitch McConnell’s state. Home of the slimiest politician to slither through the halls of the capitol. I am simply funding against my own self interest and that’s not democratic. I’d love to sue in court over this before every court is appointed by Mitch. I am not equally represented or protected.
*https://www.apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c
14
@Mike B
Then they don't need any public benefits. Problem solved.
11
I just want to know what Mr. Trump intend to do about his wife and her parents' immigration status, and their paths to said status.
12
The problem with Trump's immigration policies is that it is pure racism. The goal isn't to save the government money by denying green cards to certain immigrants. If Trump was so worried about taxpayer money, he would be showing his tax returns to reveal that he contributes to tax revenues, he would not be somebody who pays ZERO income tax, he would not be going to his own golf courses billing US taxpayers millions of dollars, he would not be demanding a military parade costing millions when veterans need better healthcare, and he would not be cutting desperately needed tax revenues so the filthy rich can get more tax breaks.
Our immigration policies have been and currently are racist. Employers hire illegals and pay them slave wages knowing they have false IDs and SSNs and know they can just claim they didn't know anything about it. Even when employers are caught red handed, it is usually a small administrative fine that is always reduced to nothing. No white person from the employer ever goes to jail.
We can't expect foreigners to obey our immigration laws when we don't follow them ourselves.
17
Retroactively rescinding rights granted to legal immigrants, many of whom are now citizens? I’m not sure of its legality, but I’m certain that it’s immoral and barbaric.
I fear our willingness, if not more naively cluelessness, to enable America’s regression, will forever mar this generation and the whole of the nation’s culture. Where’s Harry Truman’s belief the “the buck stops here?”
14
Yes, immigrants could in theory just work their tushes off and not receive benefits as a way of demonstrating their usefulness to the economy and faith towards the law. It was certainly reasonable to make this assumption 30-40 years ago.
But this is now. Over the last 30-40 years, wages have stagnated while overall costs of living have continued to rise. The fact is, the kinds of jobs long-term immigrants have talked about having to take in order to succeed here don't pay nearly as much as they need to in this day and age.
These proverbial boots still have straps, but they're too short to have sufficient leverage nowadays.
11
Gosh do ya think wages might have stagnated because millions of new unskilled immigrants increased the supply of this labor and so dragged wages down? And at a time when imports fro low wage countries like China and Mexico have increased at the same time as automation has replaced even some unskilled labor.
32
@Aurthur Phleger The evidence (and careful analysis from both the right and the left) does not support the proposition that immigration depressed the wages of native non-college workers. Creating a hostile environment for legal migrants (and the skills and drive they bring) will make matters worse, increasing the dependence of the US economy on cheap imports and further slowing wage/productivity growth.
58
@Aurthur Phleger
"Gosh do ya think wages might have stagnated because millions of new unskilled immigrants...."
No, I don't. I think it has a lot more to do with the greed of corporate America and its stockholders.
1
The majority of legal immigrants ( 1 million per year, not including the many relatives they bring here, as many as 90 per immigrant according to an article from the NYT published last week) receive government assistance at the cost to American middle class tax payers.
Illegal immigration must be stopped and legal immigration must vet each person’s ability to support themselves based on their level of education and skills and the sponsors ability to support them - an end to chain migration. Legal immigrants should only be allowed to bring their spouse and children, not elderly parents who never worked a day here but receive Social Security and free medical care. No siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins...
21
@Olivia
Someone who "never worked a day here" does not qualify for Social Security . One must contribute to Social Security for no fewer than 40 quarters to qualify. And, someone who does not qualify for Social Security does not qualify for Medicare.
22
@Middle of Nowhere
Wrong about Medicare. If you are a us citizen or, if I'm not mistaken, a legal resident, you can buy into Medicare without the quarters. It's expensive. Last time I checked about 15 years ago it was around 800 dollars per month that if I remember correctly.
@Olivia: People who did not work here, including citizens, are not eligble for Social Security.
11
During the Bush and Obama years, the hardcore right wingers, and people like Tea Party'ers always complained about illegal immigration. "What part of illegal do you not understand? We are fine with legal immigration!", they would screech. I always suspected this to be a red herring on their end. None of these folks were anywhere around when Europeans were migrating to this country for a better life, but come the 90's and ppl from Asia and Latin America started arriving in large numbers, then these right wingers started popping up everywhere. All of a sudden jobs, crime rates were a huge concern for them. Now that Trump has taken the reins, they have shed any pretense of understanding the finer details of immigration and want any colored immigrant, legal or illegal, out. The Democrats have their flaws, the Republicans have no moral core or sense of fairness anymore.
24
If I understand it, this policy is going to be applied retroactively. Clearly against the intent of the founding fathers. When will we stop calling this administration conservative?
19
"Immigrant families tend to use less health services than nonimmigrants, studies show, thus helping keep down health care costs for the wider population"
What kind of argument is this?
Firstly, the author seems to confuse health care costs in aggregate and health care costs per capita.
Secondly, is this a fair comparison in terms of household demographics?
Thirdly, the whole point of the debate is that many immigrant families, they are a net drain on public resources (not whether they lower overall per capita healthcare expenditure).
18
@liberty: You cannot provide any numbers to back up your vague and conflicting claims.
3
@liberty I think the point is that they lower the ratio of health care costs per dollar of GDP, thus reducing healthcare cost burden (as a % of GDP) and per-capita cost. Spending more is not a problem if you are earning more. The demographic point is a fair one, as is the related point that for some immigrant populations, non-use of healthcare services is not the result of better health status, but reflects cultural attitudes towards doctors, language issues or the increasingly-hostile reception that immigrants may fear when consulting a cash-strapped health system. If this means that they are less likely to use early (or preventive) healthcare, costs could go up (if more expensive late treatment is needed) or go down (if they die earlier). The third point is just rhetoric, and tendentious rhetoric at that.
3
I am a 72 year old college educated naturalized citizen. Not educated in this country. Immigrating was not easy. My immigration process started 40 years ago and after 10 years of legal wrangling with Immigration officials, with the assistance of a very expensive immigration lawyer I finally made it here, penniless and with a lot of hope.
Never did I ask for any public assistance, but dived right in, starting with a rather menial job. But hey, it paid the rent and put food on the table. To make a long story short. I worked my way up to a very succesful career in the oil and gas industry. In fact I am still fully employed at my age.
It irritates me to no end, how a large segment of the immigration population has this attitude of entitlement. As for illegal immigrants - what is so difficult to understand about illegal?
60
@Marie: "what is so difficult to understand about illegal?" Try asking the Chambers of Commerce and the employers who provide the magnet jobs that draw people here without due process.
8
@Marie Well, good for you. But your view of illegal immigrants is unfair and incorrect. I deal with many illegal immigrants and by and large, they want to work. They are willing to do anything to make a living. The attitude of entitlement is more prevalent among the natives who dropped out of school and feel somehow victimized by the society. If this White House is going to penalize the takers, then they should also go after the citizens who shift their assets to their children so they can be on Medicare/Medicaid, who go on permanent disability to get on Medicare and SSD in their 40s. They should also go after the naturalized citizens who bring their elderly parents to this country and put them on Medicare/Medicaid even though they are wealthy.
9
@Marie
"It irritates me to no end, how a large segment of the immigration population has this attitude of entitlement."
Please read editorials before you comment on them. There is no finding of an "attitude of entitlement" anywhere in it. To the contrary:
"A robust body of research shows that legal immigrants strengthen our society. Immigrants have a higher rate of labor force participation than native-born Americans. Noncitizens use welfare programs at much lower levels than the native-born. Immigrant families tend to use less health services than nonimmigrants"
You are propagating a mendacious stereotype.
154
Start with his wife and her parents. Didn't she claim she was a person of "extraordinary talent" on application? Did someone ask, "what talent"?
31
Is there a room somewhere in the White House where a group of Trump's minions work night and day to think up the dirtiest proposals imaginable? Are we taxpayers paying them overtime? Maybe we should look into that.
8
We must all take a stand and resist the efforts of stephen miller and his henchman donald trump to turn our country into a dictatorship. I suspect miller has taken more from the government than he has contributed and I know trump has. (Release the tax returns!) Perhaps they should be required to repay the government or be forced to yield some of their rights.
16
Does he want to send back the Polish workers he had remove asbestos for 3 dollars an hour from the Bonwit Building?
18
Pretty soon if we are not able to stop Trump and his fans America will be a white only (rich are better) population. Everyone else will be excluded or exiled.
I guess there will be no more stories 25 years from today that tell the story of an immigrant that came only with their clothes on their backs. Not happening anymore.
Trump has no problem giving millions of dollar handouts to farmers but does not want to help feed immigrants. Sad.
Please , please vote against these ideas by voting this fall for Democrats.
14
The Trump administration is all about making American "white" again. The fear and hatred of other people is what motivates Trump and his base- witness his speech at the UN, wherein he basically gave the finger to the entire world. This hatred of the foreigner permeates Steve Bannon's and Stephen Miller's thinking. It is integral to Trump and Sessions. It will not change until the administration is gone. Hopefully, all those immigrants and their relative remember what the Republicans tried to do to them and it affects their votes well into the future.
26
@Shaun Narine
Thank you for this post. You are right on target in your assessment. Trump's asinine racists comments at the U.N. should be grounds for impeachment. He is a laughing stock, and, unfortunately, the U.S. pays a big price on the world stage for his idiocy. We can only hope that we will be able to recover our stature when a new Administration occupies the White House. Sooner rather than later we need a leader again who understands the high importance of being a cooperative member of the international community. Bravo for the U.N. and for what the understanding and sense of community participation it seeks to engender. And bravo to our immigrants, our New Americans!
11
The GOP has been embracing the prosperity gospel for years and Trump has just exposed this myth on a grand scale. In America today, the GOP believes that those who have attained great wealth have in some way been blessed. Their moral superiority is writ large in their bank accounts. It is only natural that these way above average citizens have the power equal to their checkbooks. See Citizens United.
The GOP looks down upon the poor, the hungry, the jobless. Their gospel tells them that it is Your fault that you are poor or sick or unemployed. You are somehow not worthy in God's eye to be rewarded with a modicum of success, so pray harder, give more money to the pastor preacher and some day God might reward your faith. In the meantime, you and your family do not deserve Food Stamps or medical cost assistance. It is your fault to begin with so get over it.
Why would the GOP treat immigrants any different than their own neighbors. Besides, that race card is just so easy to use. It works every single time.
11
Thanks to illegal immigration and chain migration we are rapidly losing any sense of "identity of one nation that shares a common vision and values." America, it was fun while it lasted.
10
@Azathoth - chain migration in S.C.
It was so much better when we just captured random people on another continent and chained them up in a ship so we could chain them up here. We didn't have worry about relatives and we controlled who came into the country.
That's the kind of chain migration that made America great! America, it was fun while it lasted.
But here is the thing. America never had a common vision and values. Even in the revolutionary war their there the Tories and Loyalists that wanted to live under authoritarian rule with aristocracy class (as Republicans do now) and were against the liberal ideas of freedom and liberty. Before than the different settlements and colonies had different values, philosophies and ways of life. After the revolution some wanted to maintain the original "chain" migration and others believed it was wrong and should be discontinued. Then there were letting people previously enslaved vote, women to vote, own property. Be people in their own right.
5
@Azathoth
“The Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted. Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.” -Ben Franklin
If only we had listened to Ben! Donald Trump's family would never have been admitted and we would have been spared this mess.
1
If we want to Make America Great Again, as it was before Trump took office,we have to get rid of every Republican in Congress and then get rid of this reality show president.
13
Enough of this sociopathy! If Trump goes here, DEPORT MELANIA FIRST! Trump next.
Trump is destroying the very essence of America. He is doing Putin's bidding by dividing the country and alienating it from its allies.
Note the total lack of criticism and action to prevent Russian intervention in the upcoming mid-terms. Watch FaceBook and Twitter (in addition to TrumpTV) VERY carefully as the criminal Trumplican partly does everything they can to maintain power and stay out of jail.
20
@RealTRUTH
"Enough of this sociopathy! If Trump goes here, DEPORT MELANIA FIRST! Trump next."
First, calm down, then read the piece, presumably for the first time. Then you might realize that neither one of them is collecting public benefits, which (spoiler alert), is the point.
And after that, immigrants who got American citizenship?
And after that, second generation Americans?
And after that third - no. Not third. Trump is a third generation German immigrant.
18
...and let's not forget his in-laws!!!
7
@Mercy Wright - but he’s first generation on his mother’s side, and same goes for 4 out of his 5 kids.
3
There is a slow, simmering rage building, evidence, for a long time now, of a country being reduced, piece by piece.
9
There are good arguments on both sides of this issue. If the pharmacist in the anecdotal article has “paid back” the US why not cite specific examples of his benevolence? It would make him a much more sympathetic figure.
I am proud that this country took in an ailing 16-year who could not speak English and nursed him back to health and provided him with a college and professional education. That is what America is all about.
And now that he has made his fortune, explain to your readers how he has lived up to JFK’s axiom to “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” That’s how the authors could win this argument.
5
The article does in fact say what this individual has done to give back... He “continues to generously give back by donating his professional services and financial resources to vulnerable families in Oakland.” Since he has been employed as a pharmacist for decades, he has also paid his taxes to the state and government. Bravo to him- not all as as motivated or fortunate. I’m glad to have him in our country.
17
@Conservative Democrat- It may be assumed that the taxes he has paid over the 50 years he has lived here have more than equaled the cost of the public health services he received as a boy, not to mention his contributions to Social Security and Medicare that many Americans will have benefited from. The article also states, "He continues to generously give back by donating his professional services and financial resources to vulnerable families in Oakland." That is more contribution than many native-born Americans ever make.
12
@Conservative Democrat
If you actually read the article, you would know that one way the pharmacist gives back is by donating his professional services to the less fortunate in his community.
13
It’s no surprise that open-borders advocates always pull the exceptional cases – the success stories – for their examples. The vast majority of poor immigrants stay that way. And so do their kids and often their grandkids.
Put simply, no one who requires taxpayer handouts should be permitted to move here. Skilled immigrants, who pull their own weight, are, by definition, a benefit. Welfare recipients are not.
If an immigrant family relies upon taxpayer handouts for “health care and food for their children”, they should never have been admitted in the first place. The numbers you cite are scary: we have admitted people so poor that 10 M of their kids are on welfare of some sort? What could possibly have possessed us to do so? And we should stop. Immediately.
A “robust body of research” shows that labor gluts reduce wages and that welfare programs cost the taxpayers an unholy fortune. It’s bad enough that we tolerate sponging from citizens; there is absolutely no excuse for importing sponges.
There is absolutely no rational basis for importing “vulnerable” people. While the author is absolutely correct – we are “one nation that shares a common vision and values, that was built on hard work, strong families, respect and kindness” (would that leftists actually believed that) – we are a NATION, which gets to choose who gets to be a member. And while most foreigners are great people, we should not spend one, thin dime of taxpayer money subsidizing their residency here.
19
Since America is a nation of immigrants and America is one of the richest and most powerful countries ever known, your argument about most immigrants and their children and grandchildren being and remaining poor is specious.
6
The Origin of Thanksgiving for Trump (the sanitized and abridged version)
A long, long time ago, about 400 hundred years, English Pilgrims landed at Plymouth, New England, after a long and dangerous sea journey.
They were poor, they were hungry for food and the harsh New England winter was upon them.
This first lot of immigrants to the New World needed help desperately or they would surely die of hunger.
The native Americans, the true Americans, the real Americans, came to their aids with food and the Pilgrims survived.
When the next successful harvest came along, the Pilgrims celebrated their survival with a "Thanksgiving" feast with the real, true-life Americans.
From then on, Thanksgiving became a true American tradition which celebrates generosity of the true Americans offering welfare; and survival of the illegal immigrants needing the welfare.
Hope the story wasn't too long, I made sure there weren't any big words.
14
Trump is determined to sanitize America. It reminds me of an old joke. At a time when egg-producers were advertising their products, they ran ads with the theme "go to work on an egg." That spawned the following:
Caller: I wanted to go to work on an egg, but it wouldn't start.
Egg Council advisor: Try pulling that starter yoke (yolk) out.
Caller: Great. Now it works. It's all white.
4
Hm. Trying to reduce legal immigration. That is shooting ourselves in the foot. Immigrants are among the brightest, most patriotic, and hardest-working among us.
I frequently get a sense of cognitive dissonance these days when people refer to the federal government. For the vast majority of my years (62) I have thought of the national government as a well-meaning, if bureaucratic and sometimes bungling, force in America. Now it is a malevolent, irresponsible force and I sometimes forget and have to bring myself up short.
Make America Great Again. That slogan will become useful when Trump leaves office. I wonder if, by then, it will be possible.
20
@Charles E, Oh please, 'the noble immigrant', better than any American worker is a tired cliche. Most Americans I know work very hard their entire lives. This insults many of us.
4
November 6 is 40 days away. It’s time to stop the handwringing. Just vote and let’s have the common decency that defines America re-emerge.
15
Dear legal immigrants who believe in Trump and don't mind his stance against undocumented immigrants,
have you googled Stephen Miller yet?
Because he is who runs the nation's domestic policy.
If you don't want to look him up, there's one thing you should know about him:
Stephen Miller despises you!
And Good Luck
14
The immigration policy in the United States is too stupid by half.
We could have a sane, rational, well-administered immigration policy if we wanted to. But, bluntly, we don't want to. Or, to be more precise, those oligarchs who control our government don't want us to, because they obtain too many advantages from our current confused, disjointed policy, such as being able to exploit many immigrants as cheap labor--both on the service job side and the high level tech job side--and being able to use it for a propaganda coup and wedge issue to keep themselves in power.
We COULD have a guest worker program with specific status and rights for those who are willing to do the kinds of jobs "Americans" apparently won't. We COULD have a non-corrupt H1B visa program that isn't designed to dump expensive corporate workers in favor of cheaper ones from elsewhere. We COULD enforce universal E-verify, with major penalties for employers who violate it. But we don't, and we won't, because the people whose money buys our politicians wouldn't make nearly as much moolah if we did.
Want to make immigration policy sane? Get big dark money out of our electoral process first. Publicly funded elections with no Citizens United/corporate money allowed and very low limits on individual contributions would go a long way to allowing elected officials to actually represent their constituents. Then, maybe, we could get some sane immigration policy. And a lot of other things, too.
57
Trump served up all the better parts of the red meat to his followers during and shortly after the election; now he's down to the flank. He'll go after legal immigrants because they too represent the "other" that his base detests. Trump will appease his base and continue to govern not by logic or reason, but by the religious doctrine that so appeals to his bigoted base. He will continue to lead us down a path of backward evolution into the second Dark Ages. However, in the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer, and this program will be based on a "survival" algorithm. Then we will see how we have confused our survival program with our ridiculous beliefs about just what is supposed to survive, causing all manner of mischief. When we see this, we can begin the long trek back to reason and sanity. See RevolutionOfReason.com
3
Perhaps the time has come to rethink the Statue of Liberty. It could be turned around to face inward, maybe renamed the Statue of Patriotism. Maybe move it into Manhattan, so it's more visible from Trump Tower. A little plastic surgery could make it look more like Ivanka. And the real estate freed up in New York Harbor could house a new detention center to stage the deportation of the people who came here mistakenly looking for the ideals the statue initially symbolized.
8
My father is an elderly green-card holder who uses Medicare Part D. I'm sure he has used other public services at some point during the 40-plus years he has lived here--many people who are not millionaires with lifetime jobs do. If this goes through, this 77-year-old might be deported away from his American wife of 20 years, me his daughter, his grandson, and his friends. He came here for love and to raise me and now, why would he be kicked out? He's paid taxes and social security as well. It's a cruel and ridiculous policy, and I just wonder where the people who support it lost their hearts and their sense.
144
As a long time immigrant & US citizen, i do not understand why legal immigrants spend a life time as residents on a green card. I find this lackadaisical attitude a revolting lack of respect for their community, for their country of adoption. At a minimum we must learn English, contribute to the well being of our community, and VOTE. Anything less should not be rewarded with the support of a dedicated community.
If a legal immigrant has a sponsor, who guarantees that the immigrant will not become a financial burden on society, then that immigrant should not be applying for welfare benefits. In other words, no food stamps, no housing assistance, and no Medicaid. The sponsor is responsible for those expenses. That's what they agreed to when they sponsored the immigrant. Why would this be an issue? There are urban legends today that on planes with immigrants, forms are handed out to apply for food stamps even before the plane lands. When I go to my local supermarket, half the people have food stamp cards. These welfare programs were created for American citizens. I know young New Yorkers who can't afford an apartment while immigrants are getting housing vouchers. Americans can't afford dental care while immigrants receive free medical care. The status quo is absurd. Trump's efforts to fix the system don't go far enough. The US government should be suing the sponsors of these immigrants to recoup the money. If they had to pay the costs, the system would be more fair.
22
Honestly, US tech companies abusing the H1B visas, couple with universities abuses the foreign student visa systems, have brought us to this point. There are a number of highly qualified US citizens who are denied work, because the US made it very easy to allow abuse and, thus, you have situations like IBM and Disney, who fired American citizens and replaced their IT staff with people from India. Even going as far as forcing, soon to be fired employees, to train their replacement.
If the Trump Administration is trying to level the playing filed by hiring Americans, over foreign nationals, then he is doing what every other western country in the world is already doping. Try getting a job in the EU, Australia, New Zealand or Canada. You will find that employers there have to prove they could not find a citizen to do a specific job. In teh US, employers collect resumes, have courtesy interviews, and turn around and hire a foreign national; it is laughably obvious.
Don't get me wrong, I disagree with virtually everything Trump has done, over the past 20 months or so, but as citizens in the US can't get hired, get replaced or obtain places in university, he is right on this one. He is also right that those who come here on temporary visas, should not have any of their children born here become automatic citizens. The entire via program has been sorely abused and exploited by US based employers, foreign based contracting firms and the foreign nationals themselves.
30
This upcoming election is "crunch time" for American dream.
We will continue to be the beacon of freedom, or we will be the ever inward collapsing fortress-America.
Walls create prisons too.
47
Once you start to open the Pandorra box, there may be no return.
Starting by ostracizing illegal immigrants, now legal immigrants could be followed by naturalized citizens and further exclusions of anybody deemed to be different than the "expected norm". We have unfortunately seen this before. So it is imperative that we send a clear signal in November that this country is not going to follow this Trumpian disaster route but will revolve very rapidly to humanity, decency and kindness.
73
@Francois wilhelm--I agree. Who will Trump go after next? My family immigrated to America in the 1700's, which was about 100 years before Trump's own grandfather came from Germany, but I'm starting to think maybe that won't be enough to stop me from being deported one day by his crazy policies.
2
As a naturalized immigrant, I recently sponsored my elderly father for a green card and had to enter into an agreement with the government that I would be responsible for his needs to ensure he did not become a public charge. Further, I agreed that if my father ever received any government benefits the government could ask me to repay them. In fact, I will be bound by this agreement until my father is able to support himself or dies.
In addition, in his application my father had to show he had the necessary resources to support himself and not become a public charge. We both had to submit extensive documentation, including copies of my tax returns.
Because he did not work here he will never receive social security. Given the above, how then is a green card applicant able to not only apply for but to receive government benefits?
Are we talking about current green card holders who may face difficulties renewing their green card if they applied for benefits after their green card was issued? If so, isn’t the sponsor still on the hook?
I’m no Trump supporter and believe his immigration policies generally are not only misguided but cruel. At the same time, however, I would appreciate it if those opposing them would lay out all the facts instead of just stirring fear and sowing confusion. Such approach does not bode well for them and ultimately is not helpful to the country as a whole.
60
@CEA If you unexpectedly die, then your father gets deported since he will more than likely need publiv assistance.
What happens to the SSN money for those who put into the system and then get deported?
4
The success of Kam Tam 50 years ago is not illustrative of the present situation. There were very few immigrants in the US in the 60s...now there are over 40 million. The US has admitted millions and millions of immigrants, many of whom have remained poor and do require social services. The safety net doesn't work for Americans, and yet, the endless immigration crowd wants more and more foisted upon us.
Those of us who would like to see the numbers of immigrants reduced are not anti-immigrant. We just think that scarce public resources should be prioritized for citizens. We just think that the US is not served by an endlessly growing population. We just think that there are still 50 million underemployed and unemployed Americans who don't have good paying jobs and why are they forced to compete with an endless supply of foreign labor? We just think that immigrants have been prioritized over citizens for too long and that immigration is supposed to serve the broad public interest, not merely the preferences of immigrants and those who want to hire them.
34
@LB Indeed, there are many things that it would be great and beneficial for all if the government had the funds to do them, but why every time the GOP is in power doing they cut funding for these great projects and give huge tax cuts to the wealthy and big corporations, which "invest" the money in buying back their stock to lift their stock price? Who, exactly, are the freeloaders here? Blaming our problems on immigrants seems like a massive distraction ploy, the real thieves pointing to a supposed threat "over there" while their sticky fingers clean out our pockets!
7
@LB Immigrants have been "prioritized" for too long? Really? Without immigrants the jobs that you hold so dear would not even exist, let alone having the opportunity to "compete" for them. Remember, your ancestors were immigrants too - cherish them for who they were and what they sacrificed to make this country great. I have a lot of respect for your ancestors and what they achieved. - and if they were alive i'm sure their respect would be reciprocated. By the way, I continue to create jobs on the projects that I create and staff every day that I have been in this country as a legal immigrant for over 30 years. I am saddened and appalled at the ignorance of those born in this country about the contributions that immigrants make to their own country.
5
You haven't been paying attention. Trump said he has fixed unemployment and everything else and that America is officially great again.
Why are you complaining? How unpatriotic of you. You need to go to a trump rally and get recharged.
Or vote blue in November.
Unfortunately this policy is not much different then what other countries do, but it does not make it right. It should not be retroactive to existing legal immigrants already here.
Other countries require people to have a certain amount of monthly income, a set amount in savings (usually something astronomical) as well as investing a large amount in that country, before you live there. Even if you just want to retire there.
17
Do you have a citation saying what other countries require or is that just your opinion?
@Daisy
Australia and Canada, for starters
For every success story there is one or more stories of abusing the welfare benefits.
Many elderly came to this country under the chain immigration law expressly to take advantage of the free health care even when they own properties that value hundred of thousands or even millions of USD back in their native countries (because of the skyrocketing housing price in Asia), and yet they are considered poor since they donot have to show those assets in the US.
34
@TD Prove it. Let's see some statistics - WITH CITATIONS!
3
@TD Not true for many years now - all immigrants are required by the IRS to report their worldwide assets and are taxed on them - severe penalties if they don't report foreign income and assets. They become ineligible for health care as a result - this loophole was closed a long time ago.
3
@TD Seriously? Elderly people come to the US to "take advantage of the free health care"? What free health care? You might want to look into the veracity of those stories...
3
Public assistance often is the necessary stepping stone for immigrants to make the transition to living in the United States. It gives them time to figure out our society, find where they can fit, and get the jobs they typically very much want. That's why you hear so many stories of individuals who were professionals in their country of origin, but who are willing to take menial jobs here as a first step to supporting their families here. They don't want to be on public assistance and they are more than willing to take any job that helps their family make it. Remember when Trump explained that he really didn't start out with much because he had only $1 million from his father when he started in business? He has no concept of or compassion for immigrants who come here wanting to contribute and to make things better for their families and their adopted country, but who may at some point or another need a little help. I wonder how many of them go through numerous bankruptcies, leaving creditors in the lurch, the way that Trump has done? I'll take the enterprising immigrant over the shifty business man any day.
88
If this administration keeps going and Trump is re-elected, perhaps all government assistance to active born citizens could be in jeopardy. Except those programs for the elderly that Trump would be eligible for when out of office.
12
RE: "because they used government benefits they were entitled to."
My mother, a life-long Republican (until Trump), feared exactly this when she was raising us kids on her own in the 60's and 70's. That if she accepted any aid what so ever that the government could use that against her and take the children. We were not immigrants, or even of recent immigrant families. We were of old white New England stock. Still she was afraid of what vindictive people in power would do. Thus we grew up poor with very little as my pregnant mother with no job and not having finished college divorced my abusive father who never paid any court ordered child support. For her being poor was the price of fear when it. And by poor I mean living in a flat with cockroaches and eating leftover food from the grocery store down stairs.
It turns out that she was right. You legal actions can be used against you by those looking for an excuse. And ironically enough it turns out it is someone from her own party, and in greater irony someone whose own family - on both sides - is of much more recent immigrant status than many who wants to hurt other immigrants.
50
Perhaps not many people know this, but one group that is eligible to receive Medicaid assistance is children of graduate students. Talk of shooting ourselves in the foot - if we deny a legal immigration channel to people who ever received public funds, then we would be turning away the best immigrants - those who are here for masters and PhD degrees.
23
@jen I agree with caveat! If they are so smart and so talented they should know better and follow immigration procedures like most people do. If it's too complicated and there is no doubt it is, that shouldn't give them a pass to break our laws as the first pledge for being in the country. I am extremely liberal in most aspects of life and also conservative in my values which are fundamental for the peaceful functioning our society.
9
@jen You hit the nail on the head. Graduate students remain the most poorly paid segment of the population - many are working on their graduate degrees at or below poverty levels as defined by the IRS. And many have to slog endlessly for many years in immigration limbo on sub-standard wages until they are legalised. And get this - these are the some of the smartest and sharpest minds the world has to offer. WHat goes around comes around - soon you will see a flight of the smartest and sharpest from this country to other places such as Canada, Europe, China, Singapore - in fact this is already happening - the best scientists have already discovered that the US is not investing in basic science anymore and they are heading out to those countries where they can start achieving from day one.
8
@jen, it is happening now, see the number of applications for universities. The international students enrolment are drastically falling and they pay a lot more to study here than Americans. It will affect in the future the budget of this universities and the hability to attract great people to study and lecture here. The country is in the path for mediocrity with this Americans first speech and I fear people will only recognize this in the next great recession.
7
President Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform, led by African-American, Democratic Congresswoman and civil rights icon Barbara Jordan, recommended and supported nearly all of the immigration reforms now co-opted by Trump. Including chain migration reform; reduction of total immigration, including legal immigration; and strong enforcement vs illegal immigration. Ms. Jordan, the first African-American elected to the Texas State Senate since Reconstruction, and first African-American woman elected to Congress from a Southern state, knew full well the negative impact of runaway illegal immigration on the most vulnerable of her US citizen constituents in her border state district.
Democrat Barbara Jordan was not following an "anti-immigrant" ideology in supporting nearly identical policies as Trump (albeit with much greater dignity and moral standing and compassion than Trump). Rather, Ms. Jordan and others on President Clinton's Commission simply recognized that after what was then already 30+ years of turbo-charged immigration via the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, it was time to recalibrate our nation's policies to recognize we were long past the industrial age & in world of globalized economy, not to mention environmental impact of increasingly densely populated nation, especially in desert Southwest & West Coast. Sadly, Ms Jordan died in '96 & Clinton betrayed his promises to her. Wish Democrats lead on this issue but they chose not to.
32
Along these lines, earlier this year Switzerland passed a law requiring that (legal) immigrants who have received taxpayer-funded public benefits (including cash and/or social services) must repay those amounts before they can become citizens. What a great idea.
The article says "Treating immigrants as public charges is based on the unfair principle that income and wealth determine one’s value to society." This is not the issue at all, the issue is whether an immigrant is or becomes a public charge, consuming taxpayer-funded social services and benefits. Other countries set economic criteria for prospective immigrants and do not admit those who are, or are likely to become, public charges. Another great idea.
As for illegal immigrants, other countries simply deport them. Yet another great idea.
32
@Ro Ma
You mistakenly assume that "immigrants" don't contribute financially to their communities and don't pay taxes. They do, however, but still might need government assistance of some kind at some point in time, which is also true of citizens. Indeed many citizens don't pay taxes or their fair share. A good idea would be for elected officials to disclose their tax returns so we know if they are paying their fair share. Under your view, any citizen who gets more than what he puts into the coffers should have to repay it. Could you?
62
@Ro Ma
Yes, it makes some sense, specially in a country like Switzerland where medical costs are 50% less than in the US. But, if an immigrant had to pay back the US government for medical services, like the upper chest scan I recently had, and where Medicare was billed about $10,000 dollars for a 15 minute procedure, I do not think it would be realistic here. After all, the unaffordable health care costs in the US are the main cause of bankruptcy among US CITIZENS.
Finally, referring to public charges, the biggest freeloaders in today's United States are the wealthy who are not paying their fair share of taxes and benefit from the new reversed welfare; welfare for the rich and corporations. Compared to the cost of this outrageous form of welfare, temporary aid to some immigrants, who do pay their income taxes, is minimal.
9
@Bernard Bonn
While I’m sure that most immigrants pay some taxes, readers might be aghast at an article on the underground cash economies and barter systems that exist in many communities to avoid paying their fair share.
In Britain I would have been denied permanent residency if I had collected any public funds of any kind. Even when I was helping to care for my elderly great aunt I couldn’t apply for Carer’s Allowance, even though the money was to support her (a lifelong British citizen), not me.
It is perhaps a bit harsh (more so in America due to your lack of healthcare), but makes a lot of sense at the end of the day.
As others have said: make exemptions for children and refugees, but make adult immigrants pull their own weight. It is only fair.
35
@KW Even if the basic idea made sense, this rule is going to be applied retroactively-- if a current immigrant used any public assistance in the past, the rules that apply to them are now being changed from what they were when they used the assistance. When does changing the rules after the fact ever make sense? Certainly not if the goal is to reduce FUTURE public spending. So we must conclude the goal is not to control the public dole, but something more insidious.
77
@Gary
Our constitution forbids Congress to pass any ex post facto law. If this retroactive rule goes into effect, we can expect a great deal of litigation. Will the money spent on lawsuits exceed the savings?--putting the inherent nastiness and cheese-paring nature of the rule aside.
1
Healthcare is perhaps the biggest issue. If you are a temporary worker or even foreign student in the UK you still have access to taxpayer funded healthcare, meaning the NHS. You cannot compare the US and Britain. This new rule includes healthcare benefits, those being the biggest benefits.
Anyone that lives here is entitled to the full protections provided by the law, regardless if they are citizens or not. The US military takes in non-citizen, permanent residents, in the MAVNI program to speed the path to full citizenship. These are legal immigrants with green cards. Some of them end up dead in combat zones. Should we deny them access to that program is they went to a public health clinic when they were sick?
This is a racist, make America white again program. The Republicans want to make sure that only native born white people can free load on the system. Look at how many Trump supporters are on the dole as they call it, getting that disability check. How many of these pro Trump anti-immigrant people are net recipients of government aid? Far too many.
So yes, we have people getting a free ride and they were born here. But that's OK because they voted for Trump.
I am the son of an immigrant. My family was full of immigrants. Did any then recieve some assistance at one time or another during their lifetimes? Probably. Everyone falls on hard times once or twice in their life. But they never made a habit of it. None of them were ever on the dole.
144
If this country, based on its immigrant-inspired history and the values that history represents, can no longer afford to welcome new immigrants willing to earn the rights and responsibilities of legal American citizenship, the bigger question should be how that affordability is measured. Economically? Morally? Ethically? Let's not take the easy way out by blaming those who want to come in. Let's blame ourselves for not creating a solution that incorporates our
fiscal responsibilities with our treasured founding principles. We have done better, and we can once again.
25
De facto it is precisely wealth, income and status that determine one's value to society (as determined by consensual social reality).
8
Values drive the quality of life
Money never ever makes people happy.
Just look at the angry miserable white men running this country into the ground as we speak.
@WJG3 NO, "everything is based upon where you're looking at it from(sic)," and the "consensual social reality" you cite betrays yours and your ilk's myopia. Obviously, to most awake people too much wealth and income has been inappropriately gathered by some at the expense of all of us.
"Immigrants have a higher rate of labor force participation than native-born Americans." This is astonishing and deeply worrying. It may mean a number of things.
The immigrants are more energetic and "go-getting" than Americans?
The immigrants are willing to work under conditions Americans balk at?
The immigrants are more qualified and hence more able to find a job?
The immigrants are closer to where work is or more willing to move there?
The skill-sets immigrants bring are more readily matched to the demands of the labor market?
The immigrants are more self-starting and begin own businesses, where Americans seek employment as salaried employees?
The immigrants are more willing to continue working when they are afflicted by illness than Americans?
And perhaps there are other reasons, too.
Whichever combination of factors it may be, it not only highlights the importance of immigrants for the continued success of the US economy, it also seems to indicate that the zeal or the ability for work diminishes as generations progress and families become more established as citizens. Worrying indeed.
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@Rudy Flameng
IMHO, its about a country being smart in identifying which skills are critical to growth and in short supply; and letting people with relevant qualification in. Legal immigrants aren't close to jobs, they stay in a country only as long as they have jobs/are relevant to the job market.
Having said that, I really am confused why go after them? I don't have the stats with me, but I am pretty sure the number of legal immigrants (excluding asylum seekers) entering US isn't so high so as to ring alarm bells. This is one of those decisions which doesn't have a wide impact, but can generate headlines and TV sound-bites.
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@Rudy Flameng
It may be worrying, but actually it's the nature of immigration itself. In his book, "Capital in the 21st Century", Thomas Picketty points out that immigrants are more industrious, entrepreneurial, and courageous than their average countryman who stayed at home and than the average person in their host country.
After a few generations, those unique combinations of genes and chromosomes that enable immigrants to have those qualities recombine and return to the human average. Picketty has sources for his statements, but I don't remember them offhand.
That vigor and enterprise is the reason that cities with large immigrant populations are so vital and exciting. Every nation needs immigrants to help maintain its vigor.
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@Rudy Flameng
“And perhaps there are other reasons, too.”
Or, perhaps it is an unsubstantiated claim .
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Thank you for writing this article. My family - consisting of my mom, my brother and I -- immigrated here from SE Asia in 1979. My father had passed away when we were young. The first decade of my life, we relied on government benefits: food stamps, section 8, Medicaid, Temporary Aid for Needy Families, Pell grants (for my mom's education), and Head Start (for my brother and I). When I read about Trump's proposal, I immediately thought of my family. Would we have had to risk losing that help because we wanted to become citizens?
We have always been grateful to the US for taking us in and became citizens over 3 decades ago. I believe we have repaid a large share of any "debt" we owe, not just in taxes but in services to this country. My mother retired from the US Postal Service after 25 years; before that she worked for a regional branch of DHHS. My brother clerked for a federal judge and has worked for nonprofits in DC. Like Dr. Nyguen, I am a physician and scientist. Aside from practicing at the VA and public clinics, I have been honored to advise the FDA, NIH, CDC, and the National Academy of Medicine. My stepfather, also an immigrant, was an engineer who worked with NASA and defense system satellites.
I don't think our story is unique. Investments in immigrants are an investment in America.
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This article infuriates me. My grandparents came to this country as toddlers when there was no such thing as government assistance, no welfare, Section 8 housing, food stamps... My great grandparents worked hard and provided for their families as best they could on their own. My grandparents then succeeded, on their own.
Legal immigrants should not receive government assistance of any kind. Social Security should be for American citizens who have paid into it, no one else. How will there be Social Security money left for American citizens who worked hard their entire lives when immigrants who never worked a day here are eligible to receive it?
This is wrong.
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@Olivia The greatest threat to our Social Security system is the special tax breaks for billionaires that Trump and his ilk pushed through, skyrocketing our national debt. Having to slash our SS, Medicare, and Medicaid to reduce the debt isn't a bug, it's a feature.
America's immigrants tend to have an even better work ethic than many of us who were born here. With a little help at the start, they become prosperous citizens, enriching America.
Telling us to despise them is just a GOP trick to distract us from Trump's handout to billionaires.
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@Olivia Legal immigrants (even those on a temporary or short term work visa) do pay into Social Security as part of the federal taxes that are withdrawn from their paychecks every single month.
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@Olivia Saying that they did it "on their own" doesn't make sense. There were jobs and other opportunities they took advantage of -- including the support of other families experiencing the same things as they were as well as communities that made them welcome instead of doing everything they could to keep them out. You are never on your own, not truly.
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40 years ago, the Supreme Court held that the children of illegal immigrants are entitled to a public school education under the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Whether immigrants are entitled to health insurance and other benefits is likely to test the case that granted them free education. If the issue were to reach the Supreme Court the extent of mandatory immigrant benefits would be tested. Trump has not done well in the Supreme Court. But if Kavanaugh is appointed, everything changes. So this case could tell us a lot about where the Court is headed. The significance of the issue raised here is hard to overstate. The equal protection clause is pretty much a test of where the court is going on individual rights. Some courts reach out to help the poor and their willingness to require equal protection tells us how much they are invested in equal treatment for all.
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Dr. Nguyen and Ms Hirota, thank you for this reminder for us to aid and support our legal immigrants. I too am a Bay Area native and a retired RN. I can not tell you enough how many fine legal immigrants I tended to in our hospitals or how many are now productive and law-abiding individuals and families in my present community. We here in California are in a unique position of having national, state, and local politicians who agree with your just argument....as our fellow Americans along the rest of the West Coast and northeastern US do. But it is all about the states in-between and in the south and their elected Senators and Representatives. Congress can do nothing right now because of a GOP ideology that is nativist and I dare say bigoted. The only way we can get Congress to act is to change Congress. That is the first, and right now, only step we can take...in November.
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Where will it end?
My immigrant mother received unemployment compensation for 6 months when she was laid off during a recession. That was it for "government assistance". Of course, she had paid into that fund before the lay-off and again after returning to work.
Could she now be classified as disposable? Despite the fact that she also single-handedly raised 3 children who all got college educations and became unquestionably productive members of society?
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@Linda
Where will it end? It will end when Trump is beaten for re-election in two years. Unfortunately, it won't end before then.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
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Every last one of us is either an immigrant or the progeny of immigrants. Even the ancestors of native Americans traveled here from other lands. So when someone is here as a legal immigrant, we should treat them like a potential citizen, with as many rights and responsibilities as possible to help integrate them into society. If that means public aid when they need it, I'm fine wit that.
Of course, we can't support anyone who comes here and lives on welfare continuously. But even citizens don't do that. Welfare is primarily for children. And what about refugees? How are they supposed to get by without aid...at least at the start?
What Trump is engaged in here is discrimination against the poor. In his view, only the already rich should be allowed in. My ancestors weren't rich when they got off the boat over 100 years ago. I won't support anyone who insists that only rich immigrants are allowed a green card. As a result, I have to
VOTE OUT ALL REPUBLICANS
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@rumpleSS, the Trump Administration has specifically exempted all refugees and all people who are accepted for asylum from this regulation. So they may still receive aid under all of these programs. I am not sure why these opinion authors failed to mention this important and justifiable exemption.
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@rumpleSS
"VOTE OUT ALL REPUBLICANS" I most emphatically agree. I have visited America a number of times and admired it. This continued even with some Republican presidents. Trump's proposals for legal immigrants is the latest in a number of horrors he has perpetrated. My dislike could turn to hatred if Americans do not get rid of him and the republicans.
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@rumpleSS how true! Also here in Austria, you can see how discriminating immigration is being handled. If you were rich with loads of cash you tend to get your citizenship in a jiffy.
But no one cares, except when you try to buy the odd apartment that used to cost a fair price of € 200 000,- euro and you realize it costs € 450 000,- because there are rich immigrants, often from a very large eastern european country (!), who can afford it.
That's what is happening. A gentrification of sorts in the housing market. Elder people moving out of their apartments because they can't afford the rent anymore, apartments getting renovated, and new more affable tenants moving in.
And housing is just one aspect..but nearly everyone agrees that europe needs to close its borders to keep those pathetic and parasitic asylum seekers away from the honeypot.
It is very sad and what all forget is:
In a 100 meter race, 9 have to lose so one can win. So, those 9 although they have tried their best are just a bunch of losers? Life isn't about winning. But hope is still there that a new young generation won't be fooled by all these machinations.
So, I am with you. It's as if there is a common trend to de-civilize all that humans have achieved so far on your side and my side of the atlantic.
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I have stopped believing nearly everything that I have heard about immigration. Here in Oregon, the immigration status of accused criminals is routinely suppressed by the newspapers. Dealing meth? Smuggling Fentanyl? Who knows where these folks came from? And of course, if there's a family involved, then the truth may never be known. I'm not kidding. We all know the fix is in. It's the secret ingredient to Trump's success.
As for the folks who play by the rules? They're the ones who write these stories. And there are not that many of them. Sorry.
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Not that many? Nonsense!! The ‘ones that play by the rules’ include my doctor, plumber, waiter at my favorite restaurant, and of course at least half of the groundskeepers and gardeners and chambermaids at the hotels we may occasionally go to—not to mention all those that harvest much of the food you and I eat. Open your eyes and you’ll see exactly what the authors describe.
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@caveman007 We played by the rules but we have no problem with helping other legal immigrants. And sorry there are plenty of "us". Stop believing what you are told and get out and meet these immigrants. The "good guys" are the majority. Do not tar the majority with the same brush that Trump and his cohorts tar us with.
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@caveman007 You know, I tried to think of a civil reply to this comment, but there isn't one.
Some questions if I may? Does Trump's antagonism against immigrants legal or otherwise, extend to his wife and her parents? What was it he said about chain immigration?
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@Bruce1253
How about anti-immigrant firebrand Laura Ingraham? She has 3 immigrant children who, in her words about other immigrant children, will one day "take jobs from Americans". When she talks about making an exception for adoption, if you didn't know about her children, this inconsistency would be jarring. But selfish inconsistency is a hallmark of a lot of this crowd.
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@Bruce1253
Another question: How on earth did they come on an EB-1 visa, which is informally known as the Einstein visa, because it is reserved for those with extraordinary abilities and contributions in the fields of science and the arts? Never heard of either parent being a giant in either field.
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@Bruce1253
As with all things Trump, don't look at what he says; look at what he does.
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Trump and underlings are the 2nd coming of the KNOW NOTHING Party. These individuals like Trump, Miller, and Kelly Ancestry Families would be accepted . Trump's paternal grandfather was an actual pimp and owned many brothels. Today, he would be deported for moral turpitude crime.
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Trump is truly evil.
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