We will probably never know what happened in this case, but it sounds fishy. The door was ajar; she unlocked the door. Which was it? I'm thinking that if a police officer thinks there's someone in her apartment she would call for backup. She has no way of knowing what she is walking into.
My late husband had an uncle that was in the NYPD. One night he went home drunk, opened his apartment door and saw a man in his foyer. He shot the man. It turned out it was his own reflection in the full-length mirror on the coat closet door.
Some comments are really ugly. Why? I would not have thought that racism is still so rampant in the United States.
I still remember the slogan "Oh, he was just 'someone from the Isles' " in the Florida of the 1990s. How low can it get?
1
neighbors heard someone banging on the door, demanding to be let in, before the gun was fired.
case closed... guilty of manslaughter based on witness evidence.
I am usually on the side of the officer in these shooting incidents, but this one is the exception. She is in the wrong apartment, allegedly due to an ajar door? If she thought that her door was open, would it not have been a natural reaction to turn on the lights first? Then, she sees a figure in the shadows and her first reaction is to shoot? No evidence that the person had a weapon, much less that he was threatening her with it. No demand for the person to stop, come forward, or anything, just draw and shoot.
Even if the officer is telling the truth about the whole incident, she has obviously demonstrated her unsuitability to be in a high stress situation like police work. Firing her was an obvious first step.
4
Just watch. If Texas is like Oklahoma she will be hired by another police department within weeks.
3
Her entire story doesn't pass the smell test.
3
Mistakenly entering the wrong apartment and shooting the occupant of the house? She must have been on drugs or viciously drunk? Although she was clear enough to shoot the guy. Smells like police entitlement and racism here...
5
The Dallas police department taking the side of the officer in this before the investigation was barely started is why many of us do not entirely trust the police. They're concern appears to be one of protecting a fellow officer no mater the circumstances instead of the truth. They should all have body cameras implanted, unable to be turned off & transmitting this video to a civilian over site group.
3
I suspect we'll see more facts of this story on a future Dateline or 48 Hours program. Yes, there is something more to this story. Presumably the police have checked for Guyger DNA in Jean's apartment, cell phone and computer records? Something is wrong with Guyger's version of events.
4
This is a stain on law enforcement and contributes to my continu ing erosion of my respect which is abysmally low already. I think what happened and shake my head. And that the Dallas police support her version is beyond explanation. She walked into his home and shot him.
1
I live in a high rise apartment building and have , on more than one occasion, gotten off the elevator on the wrong floor. Since the lobbies all have the same carpeting and wallpaper, it is not immediately evident that you are on the wrong floor.
But, I have never mistakenly tried to enter the wrong apartment. At some point, something doesn't seem right; maybe the front door mat is different or the door of the apartment next to "mine" doesn't seem to match what is in my memory.
So, I can understand how Amber Guyger made the mistake that she made up to a point. What I can't comprehend is why something didn't give her pause either before she entered the apartment or, certainly, after she went through the doorway. And, why was her first instinct to assume that she was in the right place and that , Mr. Jean, the occupant was an intruder.
And, furthermore, why was her immediate reaction to this situation to draw her gun and shoot. As a police officer, she should have been even more aware of the circumstances and more wary of overreacting than the average person.
For all of these reasons, I think that she is unfit to be a police officer and deserved to be fired. I will leave it up to an impartial jury to determine if she is guilty of manslaughter as well.
61
@Paul R " What I can't comprehend is why something didn't give her pause either before she entered the apartment or, certainly, after she went through the doorway."
Yes, I thought police are especially trained to be sensitive t their surroundings.
4
@Paul R, I once went to the wrong apartment, and didn't realize that I was at the wrong apartment until my key did not work. Then I felt very embarassed. I know of others who have had a similar experience. I agree with all of your other points about her being unfit, too quick to shoot, etc.
Given Texas law, murder seems more appropriate than manslaughter although there are extenuating circumstances. Under Texas law, it's murder if she aimed at Mr. Jean, and it's manslaughter if her gun went off by accident. I don't believe that her gun went off by accident.
6
What I see here is issue between neighbors... although, being a police officer and carrying a gun, gives her an advantage. Simply imagine, if the guy should have protected his home from intruders? If he would have killed her... this story would have had an entire different outcome.
1
It doesn't seem proper to fire the officer until the courts have rendered a final judgement on the criminal matters. As I understand it, that is how things are done in New York City, a jurisdiction with a dramatically low rate of adverse incidents wither where a police officer shoots a civilian or an officer is shot.
Of course, one instance is one to many, but a rush to judgement is not the way to resolve anything.
That said, there are any number of things that do not add up. The officer worked across the street, so why did she drive home? THere have been reports that the apartment doors are self closing, as in NYC. So how could she have entered the apartment? It has also been reported that the building has electronic locks. so is it possible that her "key" opened the wrong door? Possible if someone misprogrammed the system, but not likely. She reportedly had worked a 14 hour shift. Of course, such things happen. MTA train operators sometimes do this, but it would seem reckless for any manager of people in a public safety job to permit 6 hours of overtime. But even so, would 6 hours of overtime lead to this behavior?
The case seems to have a great many questions that must be answered, but it does not appear to me that either the general public or readers of this newspaper have the knowledge to judge the matter with the available information.
8
@Eugene The standards for employment and a criminal trial are completely different. If you are a LEO and can't keep apartments or addresses straight, you can't do the job. Or do you really want people who are incompetent to the point of being dangerous to other people to be able to keep their jobs because, ya know, they haven't been convicted of a crime? Come on!
49
@Eugene
"Doesn't seem proper"? You think a cop who shoots an unarmed civilian in his own apartment is fit to wield a shield and a gun? Would you want this officer to respond to a domestic dispute at your house?
And since when did NYC have a "dramatically low" rate of "adverse incidents" with the police? Unless maybe you're talking about Park Avenue?
All this solicitude for cops' rights, in a country where anyone else can be fired for no reason at all.
41
@jrd - Generally, when someone is under investigation for a crime, they are placed on administrative leave (Schools, police departments, government offices, etc).
The fact that the police force believes her version of events based on the current publicly available information reinforces my belief that protection from the police is almost as important as protection by the police if you are a minority.
42
Her defense of “Whoopsy! Wrong address” would not have been accepted for a moment had the situation been reversed. Were the situation reversed, the only possible outcome for the black man would be conviction for murder and a death sentence as a cop killer, if he were not gunned down by police at the scene. Her report that she tried to unlock a door that was already ajar makes no sense at all and smacks of coverup. At a minimum she should be terminated for poor judgment. And then she should be prosecuted with all the vigor a black man would face in the same situation. I guess it is ok that the Dallas police are moving slowly on this. Had the officer chosen to move slowly rather than running in with guns blazing she would not be a murderer. For the family, there is no “victory”, only the hope for justice.
153
@rs - It depends on what is meant by "ajar". I lock and unlock doors for a living. I very often go to unlock a door and find it is slightly ajar, not standing wide open, but perhaps a quarter of an inch from being shut and latched properly. You can't always tell at first glance if a door isn't properly closed.
2
What she did is only brought to light because of technology. Just as they monitor us it is getting harder for police departments to hide what they do. So just imagine for a moment what has been going on before when it was easier to cover up their misdeeds.
Then maybe you will get just a sliver of what drove Micah Xavier Johnson and Christopher Dorner to the brink. It is also obvious black police officers could be just as corrupt and many are finding that out with Chief Hall covering for Guyver.
She will get a light sentence or maybe even walk. Maybe then people will understand the corruption in police departments, with prosecutors and judges but I doubt it. That would entail acknowledging how unjust the justice system has been for a long time.
1
This ex officer should be tried and convicted of manslaughter at the least, and murder at the most.
It is high time that police officers stop shooting first and asking questions after the fact.
I, personally, am sick of it.
And I thank God every day that I am white, and don't have to worry so much about being a victim, all the while feeling such compassion for those who are not.
5
There's nothing racial about this whatsoever.
Just a tragedy.
I'm not exonerating this police officer, or any other law enforcement official, who wrongfully shoots an innocent civilian. However, these agents would surely possess a different mindset were they confident that the people they're encountering do not carry any firearms.
2
...hope the DPD knows what they're doing...
What's Guyger's psychological profile?
Is she the vengeful type?
What's the security layout of the DPD buildings?
3
Guyger's story smells phony. (1) How did she get into the apartment without a key? Pick the lock? (2) Even though the apartment was dark, how did she not immediately note it was not her's? (3) How did she not recognize her neighbor? The whole story is too bizarre to be truthful. Was this the revenge of a unrequited lover? An initiation ritual for the Klan or local Nazi group? I am being a tad absurd, of course, but she clearly is lying.
3
There has to be more to this story than has been revealed thus far. If the officer was banging on the door she knew she wasn't at her apartment. Did Guyger know Jean? if so, what was their relationship?
Whatever the case her story is bogus, doesn't make sense.
5
@Ellen I read a week or so back that she had put in several complaints to the apartment management office about noise coming from his apartment. She works shift work, he's right over her, even him walking could probably be heard in her apartment. So I feel strongly that she knew him and had probably confronted him before.
6
@Ellen
Her whole story has been a lie and I believe recent seizures of videos shows that she lied. I believe that is why the police chief finally cut her loose. I also believe any damning evidence on those videos will either be leaked on social media or reported on by the foreign media. It definitely will not be reported by the police or American media.
It is really a shame that I can get more information and investigative reporting about this case on foreign news sites. Then American news sites drag their feet in finally reporting the news and never do any investigating. They just take the word of the PD.
4
Well I guess that's a start somewhat. Note: The Dallas PD perhaps the worst in the country hate wise has finally managed to fire a murderer however they had to wait for it to be woman they are too scared and cowardly to fire male officers for that exact same crime: murder. In fact our police are given permission to murder with almost zero oversight.
3
Walked into the wrong apartment? Shot and killed the owner? What took them so long?????
Anyone with such poor judgement should not be a police officer.
20
@GeorgeW
Including the ‘chief’!
2
Why, why do American police always shoot to kill? Even in dire circumstances should they not shoot in the legs (if they must and only to preserve their life)
10
Justice needs to be done. I would add that there is blame to be spread around to a Texas culture where guns are so "handy". There is blame any police department that doesn't properly monitor itself, and to an officer who seems so strung out (overworked? Had a couple? Coming down off of something to stay awake on the job?) to get off on the wrong floor and shoot first...
4
A simple case of an overworked cop who was so punchy after her long shift that she parked on the wrong level. Went to what she thought was her apartment, pounded on the door to get in, and then for some CRAY reason show the person who let her in! She lied with the nutty story about the door being ajar to cover the killing. Not likely racially motivated but definitely manslaughter, you can't use overwork as an excuse to kill someone.
8
@noprisoner The worst thing is that she lied. As with anyone that lies it catches up someday.
3
@noprisoner
Please, I believe she targeted him and there is evidence of that. There are comments she made online that suggest her racist state of mind. I have worked longer hours than her and never forgot where I lived and murdered someone.
1
Anyone else would have been charged with murder, bail denied and sitting in a cell while waiting for trial. She is the definition of a menace to society.
I still believe there is a racial component but more than that it is about the blue wall put up to protect any police officer guilty of even the most horrendous crime. The police chief is a black women who chose to protect Guyger just like any racist white male police chief.
Police brutality is so entrenched that an innocent black man sitting in his own apartment can be murdered and a black woman will protect the murderer. This is why Kap and others kneel. She will be protected all the way up the chain and will do less time than Bill Cosby. That's if she does any time at all.
7
Losing your life versus losing your job. Life is unfair.
1
Amber Guyger should be remembered along with Lyndie England as a woman who took her little grain of power far too seriously. Police departments need to monitor their officers more closely, administer more stringent psychological testing and deprive people like Guyger of weapons at the first whiff...
6
I live in a block of apartments and once got off on the wrong floor and tried to make my key work in the door I thought was mine. Baffled it did not work. But the person there heard it and opened it. I realised instantly my mistake. And feeling foolish, apologised. I believe that to be the normal and only acceptable response to violating someone's privacy in error. This DEATH MUST be punished with a prison sentence.
21
Geiger was quite properly fired. All that's needed to fire her is a preponderance of the evidence and there's plenty of that. The only issue is why it took them so long to fire her.
8
As always, there’s enough uncertainty to drive a truck through. But I can’t shake the feeling that if this police officer had been male, said police officer would now be on full payment, not fired. Racism is ever more complicated
3
I do not argue the fact that this police officer should face appropriate consequences for her actions. I do find it interesting that while she is facing at least some consequences, so many of her male counterparts escape any consequences for similar murders. Food for thought.
5
@Blue Femme
I can't think of any similar murders in which "male counterparts" escape any consequences. This is such an unusual set of circumstances. That's not to say that men or woman in law enforcement are always properly held accountable. But I don't see the gender bias issue here and I'm not sure why people are raising it.
2
This is not misbehavior or anything like that - this is apparently a case about a person who never should have been hired, due to some delusional or chemical abuse problem.
How can one walk into an apartment and NOT notice a lot of things about it that say ‘this is not where I live.
Even if momentary confused, one has a gun - the other person does not. Back off and call for help? You have full control of the situation with your gun, he is in your power.
Lastly, almost any property can be replaced - lives cannot be. The “worst” that could have happened, were it her apartment, is she could have ordered him out, and ge might have escaped, some of her property in hand.
What, I ask you,is more important?
Why wasn’t she trained to feel the same?
16
There were reports a few days ago that videos had been seized as evidence and were being investigated. The real story is what was on those videos that made Chief Hall suddenly find she could fire Guyger. Will those videos be seen, altered or disappear? Who watches what the watchers watch and watch what they do with what they watched?
5
Fired? She should be charged with murder!
43
@Justice Holmes ~ Exactly my thinking. Manslaughter? Are you KIDDING me? I'm so upset and horrified by this consistent, grim refrain of police in America shooting black men for no reason, (and by the way, what could possibly be a 'real' reason apart from being shot at or seriously menaced first?) that I feel literally nauseated, despairing and furious all at once. That woman has zero credibility in my eyes: she's lying. How does a cop make such a grotesque mistake? She wasn't just at the wrong door, she was on the wrong floor. She couldn't have called out to him first? Ah, to the devil with it! I spit with disgust.
7
Exactly. She should sitting in jail waiting trial.
6
Duh?!!!! This is a no brainer. i hope the family sues for a ton of $. If anything cries out for monetary justice. This case does. I know it wont bring back the families loved one. But, it will send a message. Cops be aware of what you do when you do it.
12
Whenever there’s a noise complaint in an apartment complex it’s always next door or upstairs. Always.
Upstairs he was and she just came off of her shift and was cranky and sleepy. Premeditated to kill the noise from above? Most likely. Door ajar? Not likely. Entitled attitude to be resolved of charges due to being a cop? Most likely. She had heard him banging around many times while trying to sleep. Oh and that’s just too much for her.
19
@Billie Morgan Yes- this is the clearest and most likely correct conclusion. Other commentators in this thread get lost and confused because they take at face value her nonsensical excuse that she thought it was her apartment!?!
4
Police should be fired when they misbehave like this. The police department has the power to do it and it is the right thing to do.
15
Misbehave? This officer killed that young man in cold blood. This is called murder.
14
The thing to remember is this: this is not a new or recent phenomenon. African Americans have been dealing with these horrors for decades. The only difference is the presence of cameras and social media. Without video evidence police can get away with lying for one another. Here in Chicago a police officer is on trial for the murder of a 16-year old boy. And guess what? His fellow officers lied up and down to cover for him. The video (released only after intense public pressure) shows that it was an execution. And yesterday saw the death of a Chicago police captain who ran an actual torture chamber to get confessions. The idea that the Dallas woman’s fellow officers back up her inane story for why she committed murder tells you everything you need to know. I am a middle-age white man who drives a Volvo. When I lived in LA, I was pulled over 5 times. Not once was I even ticketed. A Latino friend was pulled over wearing a suit driving a late model BMW. He was cuffed against the car within 2 minutes. I offer no rationale for why minorities should trust police officers. They absolutely should not.
53
@RodA ~ Sadly you describe a very sick society.
3
@RodA
It has been happening for centuries to Black and Native Americans and for centuries victims were labeled liars. Even now with technology showing clear evidence some still "find it hard to believe".
Only recently has it happened to Latinos, due to the immigration issue, because for years like 'Ricky Ricardo' most Latinos were considered white.
3
@Tim WeatherillAnd that is what America has become.
1
Let’s give credit where credit is due. Police officials in Dallas have acted with measured reason; Amber Guyger will be held accountable for her actions. Meanwhile, we are still waiting for the murderer of Eric Garner to be brought to justice.
11
@MDB
You mean credit for dragging their feet and treating her with kid gloves? If anyone else had committed such a crime they would not have waited days to charge and would not have been out on some paltry bail.
6
Good Riddance.
This culture of shoot the black man first and ask questions later has got to stop. Unfortunately for Officer Guyger, she didn't even pay attention to the fact that the front door of Mr. Jean's apartment had a mat while hers did not. Her incorrect and biased snap judgement about Mr. Jean as an intruder cost him his life in his own apartment. She must face the consequences of her actions.
35
I’d like to know if a drug screen was run on Miss Guyger. She has very dark circles, and bags under her eyes, unusual in one her age. Beyond that, we can add her name to the long list of those in blue given a pass for murder. And you ask why they kneel.
44
@JWL, many newspapers reported that she was given a drug screen at the scene of the crime.
She has not been given a pass for murder. This case has not gone to the grand jury or to trial. Fortunately we live in a country in which people are allowed to have their day in court.
Had they ever dated?
1
@Jesse I red somewhere that there was never any interaction between the two of them.
But I do wonder, if, like Lena Dunham, Guyger somehow felt that her black neighbor owed her something.
I guess I’m at a loss as to why, or how this woman, mistook someone else’s apt for her own, her first clue should have been the apt number right on the door. Her second clue should have been that none of the furnishings would look like hers, in fact it would probably look like a bachelors pad. I don’t mean dirty and unkept, but lived in. But that brings me to the missing piece of this odd puzzle, why would a sober, person police or otherwise, not know that they were in the wrong apt, then shoot the occupant, then claim something that didn’t happen, ok, that part I get, but the rest of it, something is rotten in Denmark (Shakespeare).
I’d like to know the missing pieces, I’d also like to know what laws the chief was talking about. All of it smells like a coverup, but that’s been the norm fo so long, it’s no wonder cops think that they can just make something up, when they kill an innocent black man. I hope they pocket a wad of money, it won’t bring back their son, brother, but it will go a long way to hopefully change this inequitable system we’ve become so accustomed to that it’s been normalized.
15
Why try your key on a door that is supposedly ajar? If its open then would you not walk straight in? If it was your apartment and discovered the door in such a fashion, again would you enter with an element of caution.
Murder, nothing more, nothing less.
4
The best course of action, when she mistakenly thought someone was in her home, would have been to immediately leave the premises and call for help. Instead, she gunned down a man who showed no aggression toward her. Her actions were criminal and she should pay.
38
After hearing WNYC report about this story, it's clear that the officer and the victim were acquainted previously, and that the officer had complained about noise from his apartment in the past. A reporter who visited the apartment building noted that the decor on the two floors was different enough that the officer could not have credibly confused which floor she was on, and that there was a red doormat in front of the victim's door, which was not present in front of her own door. It all adds up to show that the officer went to his apartment intentionally, and probably regarding a noise complaint. If she wasn't an officer I believe she'd be charged with homicide.
32
@Doug If she wasn't A WHITE WOMAN I believe she'd be charged with homicide.
There fixed it for you.
1
I live in Texas and support my local police, having attended a months long "Citizen's Police Academy" and experienced a "ride along" for a shift. But when an officer makes a mistake like this, it is no time to demonize the victim.
88
I personally think this is more important than Bill Cosby at this point given the issues with policing
I would like more details as to what laws are allowing this to occur
Why is it so hard to fire folks like this
I’d like mire details into blue laws
Forget the case by case
The whole system is screwed up so let’s discuss the legal framework that allows this racist behavior to continue
24
I hope that Justice will be done for the late Mr. Jean.
31
Why is there no mention of the fruit of the search warrant of the victim's apartment? Not the small amount of marijuana that was plastered on to the headline of the local news affiliate, but the police equipment and paperwork?
It seems more than likely that the cop and victim knew each other, that her excuse of barging into the wrong apartment (when per this article neighbors heard pounding on the door and yelling) doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
20
@NJ in
Police equipment and paperwork were found in the victim's apartment? Please verify that statement with a credible source/ link.
7
@NJ because it has nothing to do with an armed police officer entering a private residence without a warrant and shooting an unarmed man in his own home.
This case falls under the heading "Criminally Negligent Homicide".
Amber Guyger should be prosecuted for that, not "manslaughter".
23
@Joey that's not correct. Criminally negligent homicide is where a death is the result of an omission of action, i.e. negligence. For example, someone dies after falling down stairs where the banister was installed knowingly incorrrectly. This could be considered criminally negligent homicide by the person who installed the banister. In this case the officer's actions (i.e. firing her weapon) directly resulted in Jean's death; it was not due to negligence or an omission of action. Therefore manslaughter is the more appropriate charge.
2
@Joey Criminally Negligent Homicide is also a lesser charge then manslaughter. I’m not sure if you realize that.
2
The biggest mistake, as a person and as a police, was in going into an apartment where she believed a burglar was, alone. She should have called for back up.
12
@Analyst, let us distinguish between what she says and what she believes, and compare them each to what actually happened.
8
...But several neighbors heard her banging on the door and yelling “let me in!” So she may be lying. Additionally, police also told tenants they were escorting into the building to watch the blood in the hallway. Her statements conflict with witnesses and obvious facts (red doormat, led lit door numbers, fire auto-closing doors). Lastly, he was reading and eating a bowl of cereal...pretty hard to do in the dark. Damn details.
34
It doesn't matter if the door was unlocked or locked.
Officer Guyger had no legal right to enter Mr. Jean's apartment.
None.
Doesn't matter if she was in uniform. Doesn't matter if it was an accident.
Based on her own testimony Officer Guyger is guilty of criminal homicide under Texas state law. She illegally entered another persons domicile, drew her weapon, and killed him. That is reckless at least.
Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.
(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.
82
@WillT26
You aren’t reading this quite right. People like the word Homicide but there is no such independent charge. Look at B. She has to be charged with one of the 4 types of homicide. Criminally Negligent Homicide would be a LESSER charge then Manslaughter carrying less time.
@WillT26 and what would have happened if the Mr. Jean exercised his Texas State's right to Stand His Ground shot Officer Guyger?
1
Guyger’s recollections are less than thirty-seven years old.
4
I'd really like a few specifics. If state and federal laws prevented the police chief from firing the officer, which laws? Which state law? Which federal law? If she did then fire her after the critical part of the investigation was completed, what is the critical part, and how does it relate to the state law? How does it relate to the federal law? Has the chief been asked these questions directly?
63
@Thomas, many news sources provided an answer to your question. The police chief wanted to make sure that Guyger's 5th amendment rights were not violated during the appeal (of firing) process because that might jeopardize the criminal case against her.
I've worked with various police agencies on healthcare fraud. The police often take time to build their case because they want to get a conviction. I'm pleased that they seem to be trying to get things right on this case. Let's be patient and see how things work out.
The whole cop mentality of blaming the victim when the police are clearly at fault is disgusting. The last time a cop referred to me as a “civilian” I asked him if he was a undocumented worker and how did he get a job on the police force. To all you cops: you are not in the military and you are not better than the people you work for.
163
@Paulie It's wrong when cops act like they're superior to everyone else and I agree that police should never blame victims for crimes committed by police officers. But I'm confused with the comments taking issue with the word "civilian." By definition, "civilian" means anyone not in the military or police force. That's why we have "civilian police review boards" to review cases of officer misconduct. I don't think the word necessarily connotes superiority. However, I would be annoyed if a cop referred to me as "just a civilian" or something dismissive like that.
Without knowing the full context of your story, asking a Hispanic-American police officer if he was an undocumented worker and then questioning his credentials based on his race strikes me as extremely offensive--and disproportionate to the officer's use of the word "civilian." I hope people can treat officers with respect even as we work to end unjust police violence.
6
Manslaughter??? I wonder if the situation was reversed and the cop was a black man or woman entering the home of an unarmed white man or woman and shooting them dead, would be charged as “manslaughter”????
128
@David
I also wonder what the outcome would be if the police officer was male rather than female. In the end, all that matters is that a young man's life was taken for seemingly no reason at all.
9
@bd1082
I concur, but then again, this has happened before with male officers. And worst yet, no convictions. If the script was reversed, as I alluded, I doubt they would see the light of day (i.e., "guilty...on all counts").
1
There you have it: law enforcement algebra. 1x (police officer's employment) equals 1y (young black man's life).
And don't dare call it inequality.
62
Fired? Why isn't she going to prison? She's as obvious a public menace as there could be.
86
Because she hasn’t been convicted to go to prison. We still use courts, not social media. By the way I’m not condoning her actions even though I wasn’t there.
7
@Michael As last I recall, we still have due process for all accused criminals. If she is convicted, then she should probably go to prison. Until then, however, she can and should be out on bail (cheaper than keeping her in jail).
3
@Michael We have a peculiar system in this country. When it seems likely (probable cause) that a person has committed a serious crime, the matter is presented to a Grand Jury. If the Grand Jury believes that the person should be prosecuted, it returns an indictment and the person is tried before either a judge or a petit jury. Only after a conviction is a person sent to prison.
Of course, there are other countries where the person in charge can send someone directly to prison, but not in the United States.
The system certainly is imperfect, but it is, I believe, the best one available.
10
She was fired only to protect the Police Department from Civil Liabilities. They THINK. They will advance the theory that she was NOT acting as a Cop when this happened, but as a private citizen, therefore THEY should not have to PAY. I guarantee that she was legally drunk when she killed him. " off shift ". Sure, and then a stop at the Bar(s) before going home.
Seriously.
33
I’m sure that’s what they will assert, but if they are smart, they would just open the checkbook and say, how much.....
7
We the people do not know all the facts involved in this situation. So we should reserve judgment. This victim was a tragic victim of a miscalculation, a mistake, of an under trained officer, of his own reaction to being challenged by a police officer. We just don't know!!! Not every mistake is the sum and substance of a person's life. But the need, the desire, the willingness to assign blame (perhaps to get money?) is a hallmark of our society. What I want to see is the results in detail of a thorough objective dispassionate investigation - not just a desire to throw somebody, anybody under the bus.
10
@R. Anderson
The neighbors heard her shouting, "Open up, I know you're in there; a photo of her partying with a group of white supremacists was found; and she already knew the victim, some saying they were romantically involved for a year, then broke off. There is lots of evidence already stacked against her, my friend.
12
@R. Anderson You are right that we don't know what happened, and we should reserve judgement.
But why did you assert a bunch of stuff we don't know in defense of the officer? The whole "a miscalculation, a mistake, of an under trained officer" bit. And why the victim blaming stuff - the "his own reaction to being challenged by a police officer" bit.
It seems you are either trying "to get money" or "throw somebody, anybody under the bus".
18
Oh please! Since when is an officer serving on an elite task force "undertrained?" What reaction should one have when minding his business in his own apartment? He probably didn't even have a chance to register what was happening before she shot him.
Shoot first, sort things out later, because no one's life is more valuable than that of a cop, even though their job is to serve and protect the rest of us. She gets "thrown under the bus," in your words, but he never gets to take another breath. Even if she spends the next 15 years in jail, she's already come out ahead.
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More going on than what the shooter says. I look forward to the findings of the investigation, see what comes up.
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@Kathleen Flacy
Does sound like it, doesn't it?
2
The thing about police is that there are people who deliberately stalk and murder them - no joke, and no exaggeration. There are people who might ambush and murder a cop, and it could happen to any one and at any moment. So I personally am able to understand why Ms. Guyger might have been so over-aggressive in what she thought was her own apartment.
Now here's why I think she's probably guilty. If it was the wrong apartment then her key wouldn't have fit, so the victim accidentally left his door unlocked. Ms. Guyger might have come home to the wrong door, noticed the door open/unlocked, and immediately went into 'hunt' mode to shoot whoever was in the apartment that she mistakenly thought was her own. A proper procedure (I'm only guessing) would have been to take up a defensive position, call for backup, and call out to the intruder(s) to give themselves up. Everything I mentioned is 100% speculation on my part, maybe the doorknob was broken and her key worked it, who knows. But if the door was unlocked and she was on alart even before entering - then I think she could be guilty.
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@Grunchy
More than likely she was either high or drunk or both, just has the feeling of shooting under the influence. Has also a look of confusion in the mug shot.
Let the policemen believe what they want, but also let the jury discover the truth and decide accordingly.
8
By definition, she is guilty of voluntary manslaughter: her error was the root cause (hence manslaughter); she pulled the trigger with intent to kill (hence voluntary).
The question is not whether she is guilty or not; it is, is she guilty of manslaughter, or murder?
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@Grunchy What do you mean "could be guilty?" The man is dead. She killed him. No wiggle room there.
5
Firing her was pretty much of a no-brainer. She may have thought she was in her own home and had to stand her ground against an unarmed intruder, but with such poor judgment she doesn't belong in any police department.
121
To the Police officers in Dallas and elsewhere:
It disappoints and distresses me to hear that Dallas Police has taken sides in this tragic and unnecessary killing of an unarmed man in his own home by an off duty officer. The victim is not the former officer- it is Mr Jean, his family and friends.
Stop the "us versus them" nonsense every time an Officer is guilty of misconduct. The first thing every law enforcement officer should be is law abiding- on and off duty and the citizens- not "civilians" are the people who pay your salary, buy the car/truck you drive, give you the authority you hold and we are the people you are charged with protecting and serving.
No reasonable person hates our Police, I have officers in my family and among my oldest friends. I want them to come home safe at night, but also do not want innocent citizens shot. That said, the attitude in recent years of "us versus them" best illustrated by calling citizens "civilians" needs to stop. Unless you are Military Police you are civilians as well. You are supposed to be peace officers- not warrior cops or a second army. And you are to be accountable to the citizens and the elected leaders of government.
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@David Gregory
I have people in my family presently in the military and a long list of ancestors in the military. In no way could military police get away with what civilian police get away with. If you notice there are ex military on police forces but rarely were any of them former military police. They don't like to hire former military police because they would never go along with the blatant lawlessness in police departments.
1