We are a nation of laws Everyone deserves their day in court and are innocent til proven guilty. Due process is what is needed,not some external group deciding guilt.
12
Excellent! Too many times a young man's potential for a career is ruined because a date that went bad. I would recommend to a young man these days to let the girl make the first move, because then if things so south, he can blame the girl for assault. All is fair in love and war. Cheers!
4
Time will tell what the new policies actually call for, but if they require due process to be given to an accused then that will be a good thing. Sexual assault is a crime and it should be handled like any other crime, regardless of who perpetrates it, or against whom, or where the locatino of the assault. Yes, it is hard for any crime victim (and victims of sexual assault, in particular) to seek justice via our cumbersome judicial system. But that system exists for good reasons. Our society needs to do all it can to assist and support victims of any and all crimes -- but that shouldn't include sidestepping due process. Prior policies did that, and they wrong to do so.
14
As bad a problem as sexual harassment is, if a school is serious, additional security (guards, cameras, etc.) at night, and as far as possible, abolishing drinking on the grounds, are the best responses; not the restriction of due process.
The rules being changed were not about preventing assault, but about sexual politics, to categorically blame males by limiting their due process. As mentioned in the article, one of the biggest changes is to the standard to be applied (preponderance/clear and convincing). Though the rule is a little better in giving schools a choice, I don't think it goes far enough.
Another rule made it necessary for males, facing criminal charges, to testify at their peril, or face the likely destruction of their educational opportunities.
Some advocates wanted even more than Obama provided. Suggestions that women be always presumed truthful and written or affirmative consent rules are absurd (I'm not sure to what degree schools have done applied this).
I do question the new definition for sexual harassment, although almost any definition seems to some too harsh or too lenient. As in most things, there's no perfect solution, but both sides can do better.
Schools need to do better at protecting students, but gov't or administrations weighting the scales in favor of one gender is too much.
11
I can't imagine what combination of low self-esteem and domination by the men in one's life would cause one to support this administration. It's very sad.
1
If this doesn't go hand in hand with effective law enforcement for rape then this effectively is condoning rasperger's. So far this is what appears to be happening. Women will not support this and they will show their anger with this administration in November.
3
Wait, did I hear that correctly? The colleges are required to treat the accused as innocent until proven guilty? What a shocking concept!
10
Yell no. Call the police. And vote blue.
You get what you vote for! Too many young men and women stayed home from the polls in 2016. I hope they don’t regret that decision.
3
Well, its great to read all the posts from people who feel the victim should report it to the local authorities and that victims often report crimes that did not occur? What? As a mother and public educator, I find this offensive in that your understanding of what happens to a victim is non existent? Have you ever heard that victims have trouble reporting crimes?
The issue I have with DeVos' change to the sexual harassment rules is that for colleges they only have investigate if the crime occurs campus. Really? Most college students live off campus after freshmen year. And what about fraternities which are promoted by the universities and where many sexual assaults occur?
Unfortunately, I know several victims of sexual crimes on college campuses. One was hesitant to report, but other victims encouraged her too. There were multiple reports of the same student sexually assaulting female students under the influence. That student ultimately got expelled and now there is a criminal case with the county prosecutor.
But, let's blame the victim and say they should not have been at the party or not have been drinking alcohol!
2
Injustice doesn't excuse injustice.
Women have had to fight to be respected, to have accusations taken seriously - but that doesn't mean that it's now OK to turn it about and presume the accused to be guilty and apply penalties with no recourse and no due process.
I am not sure that all of this is as it should be, but a due process is required, the accused should have their time to give their side. When there is a rape or a false accusation - the victim will always lose more than any justice can make up for - we can't make it perfect. A rape victim will see her attacker on campus. A falsely accused victim will see their accuser on campus. People will look weird at them. There will be hearings and hassle. It won't be fair or right, no more than any crime is. And due process will figure out as much as can be done, which is the true victim, and apply whatever the punishment is.
But attempts to make it all equal, by expelling the accused immediately and never doubting an accusation - that's not the solution. It just changes who the victim is.
9
Good for DeVos.
I never thought I'd say that, but federally-mandated kangaroo courts are not the solution to this problem.
Sexual assault is a serious crime, and universities are not equipped to investigate and try it.
16
Just watched "The Hunt" (Mads Mikkelson) the other day. It's pretty scary how a false accusation can ruin someone's life!
10
So the best thing to do when you believe a crime was committed call the "real" police. Why would you call the campus police? You are in a place of higher education, you passed a lot of test to get there, know use that brain and call the real police.
14
To my knowledge, there is nothing that stops a victim from going to the police. Who in their right mind would ever take it to the university? University's are not equipped to determine whether a crime was committed, nor are they equipped to determine any penalties against the accused perpetrator. Most know that Obama's misconduct rules were unbelievably slanted and impossible to implement. We've heard that since he came up with them. I am not a DeVos fan, but she's doing the right thing with this change. Except to mandate that any crime, sexual in nature or not, should be taken to the police. Period.
15
For centuries it is has been ripe and easy pickings for predators where more often than not the victims are ignored, intimidated, called liars, and making it a trial about the victim and what she did to deserve the attentions of a poor man who can't held responsible for his actions.
Turn the tide somewhat and suddenly the predators are the victims crying out in anguished foul. Predators always want cover.
5
You seem to have missed the part about innocent people being "convicted" by these shoddy tribunals. Why wouldn't you want a system to be fair to both the victim and the accused, unless you're just banging the all-men-are-rapists drum?
7
@Marie
When we were the prey, ignored, intimidated, called liars, we also cried out in anguished foul. Should we now want our own predators (false accusers) able to attack innocents as some bizarre turnabout? The people falsely accused aren't the same people as those who raped women or ignored women. Should those innocent, falsely accused men be made the victim as some bizarre penance for what DIFFERENT men did?
6
Not Aware. Not aware of how Higher Education is run. That sums-up the Trump Administration, thus DeVos. So, are they aware that the best Professors, and those near the best, can go to other universities, other Higher Education Places? No, they are not aware. Also, K-12. So, essentially the Trump Administration will be "over-sighting" the bottom of Higher Education and K-12.
I am going to end with: All Students, all children, all people have a right to the best education, if not the best, then at least reasonably near the best. In the end, the Trump Administration and those that support his policies, will have empty school buildings to set rules for.
I want to add a message to Trump who describes Desantis as brilliant well-educated intelligent because he went to Harvard and Yale. Just heard that on the news this morning. For your information, Trump, DeSantis is only halfway through the Hierarchical School System, all 52 School Grades. He is only at the Masters Level at best.
Even though DeSantis went to Harvard and Yale, he doesn't have a Ph.D as well as a Post Doctorate. These degrees are above the Law Degree. DeSantis does not have a Brilliant IQ Score. A Student needs to be past the Ph.D to even start consideration. Upon Finishing all 52 Grades, the Brilliant IQ is formally certified. The earliest age is 52 years-old. These rules cannot be changed by The Trump Administration, and cannot be changed by The USA Supreme Court.
Intelligence is power.
Many commenters confuse criminal law and criminal proceedings with Title IX regulations, which have to do civil rights. Schools enforce their sexual misconduct policies and codes of conduct, not criminal statutes.
Of course, a sexual assault by a faculty member or student can be both a violation of campus sexual misconduct policies and criminal law. But schools that receive federal funding have a separate obligation under Title IX to investigate sexual misconduct, even when it is a crime, and if necessary, discipline the offender and remedy any hostile environment that results from the alleged misconduct.
At issue is the specific requirements the Department of Education promulgates about what an institution needs to do to address sexual misconduct, and what misconduct triggers that response. Once these requirements are released and open to public comment, we'll know exactly what the DoE is proposing.
5
I wrote a comment earlier about not understanding why these cases aren't brought directly to the police. A lot of thoughtful replies. One or two though complaining that Title IX gives all the power to the women and puts men in a defenseless position.
Come on. There has never been a situation in this country in which women have had all the power. I watch the news and maybe I missed but, I haven't seen busloads of men being shipped off to prison merely on the say-so of female students.
Nothing done by people is perfect, and of course the reporting system is going to leave room for flaws, but the vast imbalance of our society's sexual power comes down on the men's side and to assert otherwise is just spraying out aerosol cheese.
2
No, busloads are not being shipped off to prison but there are a fair amount of young men, too often young men of color, losing the opportunity to complete their educations; play for their college teams and possibly go pro; and simply proceed in life and to the job market without the taint of often unfounded or eminently disputable allegations hanging about them. Their parents, if they have sufficient means to fight back, end up spending tens of thousands of dollars if not more attempting to defend them in a star chamber system that is absolutely set up with a tacit presumption of guilt. They have very few of the legal protections afforded to even defendants in civil cases, much less criminal cases.
All of the above may seem like spray cheese to you but, then, one assumes you have not been caught up in fighting an accusation by an accuser whose name, in some cases, may not even be provided to you. Let’s not forget the Duke Lacrosse team, the UVA fraternity and the recent Nikki Yovino case described by the NYT in the following link: https://nyti.ms/2obmNM1. See, too, Emily Yoffe’s well regarded three part series in The Atlantic titled “The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy.”
Sexual assault is a terrible crime and should be addressed by actual law enforcement and states attorneys offices and not touched by ill trained dilettantes with agendas in the halls of the academy.
11
Everyone is against campus rape. The problem with the liberal position is that it tries to solve the problem by setting up a parallel justice system with weaker protections for the accused. Every school is left to create its own standards for justice. This isn't right, and you know it.
11
It seems that colleges willing to throw out students for plagiarism but rape and abuse survivors somehow get a mediation? This is more suppression of women in my eyes. Rape is a crime that should be investigated by police. Why are we more concerned with the rapist's rights than those of the victim in sexual assault cases? Why do so many people believe there are a lot of women falsely accusing men when it is actually under reported? If you get robbed no one says to stop wearing nice things or buy a junk car because your car was stolen. Only in rape do we have defend ourselves from stupid questions about what we wear or why did we drink so much? What did we think would happen if we were alone with the rapist? Forget needing to say no or yes, are people truly that niave that someone is upset and not interested, or if they are beyond drunk that person knows they can't give consent. We need to protect women from these predators and I say women because I believe this is specifically towards women and denying them justice.
2
@Randy
Injustice is injustice, none of it should be condoned, and finding people guilty without due process, applying penalties that are massive without appeals is entirely wrong.
8
If an alleged sexual assault occurs in an office, the police are called to investigate. If it occurs in a mall, a restaurant...anywhere, it is a police matter. Why are Universities treated differently, especially given the age of students and the propensity of many to overindulge in alcohol, and of some to engage in casual sex? Add to these factors the PC climate found on many campuses even before the MeToo movement and it seems a perfect storm for false allegations and presemptions of guilt that destroys the life of many young men.
Make college sexual assault matters police matters.
13
With so many guys operating under the premise of “bros before hoes,” parents may as well include money for a lower-back tattoo when sending their daughters off to school.
If you think that sounds bad, imagine what you might hear without a moderator filtering out profanities.
1
Readers may not know that four members of the Harvard Law School faculty submitted a memo, “Fairness for All Students under Title IX,” to the DoE in 2017 calling on its Office of Civil Rights to reevaluate the standards put forth in the 2011 Dear Colleague Letter. That memo is available here:
https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/33789434
Those faculty members — Janet Halley, Jeannie Suk Gersen, Elizabeth Bartholet, and Nancy Gertner — have researched, taught, and written on Title IX, sexual harassment, sexual assault, and feminist legal reform.
14
I've fought for women's rights since I was in the university many decades ago. I disagree with Trump and DeVoss about almost everything yet when one of them blunders into an intelligent idea, congratulations and politics be damned.
The entire feminist #MeToo hystericals have gone into a form of neurosis beyond women's rights. Their destructiveness has put a hand on a bottom in the same category as rape or Weinstein. That is stupid and childish and the Republicans are part of the backlash their overstepping is just beginning to reap. To put the responsibility where it belongs it's the result of the frenzy Hillary whipped up.
Unfortunately, with the connivance of the media (anything for a few days of headlines) a lot of reputations and lives have been devastated for what merited a slap on the wrist, at most.
We're supposed to be a country of Justice and DeVoss' program is a taste of creeping back to it.
13
You're right about the hysteria. This is becoming completely irrational, just as the "satanic panic" did in the 1980s. Have we learned no lessons from that, or any of the other lamentable witch hunts of history?
6
It seems that many New York Times aficionados have recently been blessed with baby sons who may eventually attend college, causing a seismic change of heart. Congratulations to all.
7
@Diego: I've wondered the same thing for years. I can't think of another place where if you got assaulted or raped, you WOULDN'T go to the police. If that happened at work, in a hospital, at a restaurant, a mall, the police would be involved. Why college campuses have an alternate arrangement is a mystery. There must be a reason the system has been set up this way, but I can't begin to imagine why.
8
Looking at the recent case of Nikki Yovino, who falsely accused two male students of rape, I applaud these improved rules. Both innocent male students were expelled, and one lost his scholarship. Both have had their lives ruined. Due process is part of our constitution for a reason.
15
@Cholliman
For details of the Yovino case, see:
https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Yovino-sentenced-to-1-year-in-false-...
6
US should go by the way laws are written in India. In India if sexual contact is established and women alleges rape, it is rape. No need to expend any resources court police investigation or otherwise.
Only men can commit rape in India. If a woman who is a major has sec with a minor boy its not rape. Period.
If a woman has sex with a man and alleges that she had intercourse because she alleges she was promised marriage its a rape. Period.
We dont need to prove innocence of men even if there was mal intent, ransom demands or otherwise. Simple. All men who have sex are rapists if simply alleged so.
I hope you are kidding. Half of the population only has to be accused to be guilty, and the other half can't even be accused by definition. What ground of equality would that be? As it stands right now, the U.S. definition of "rape" excludes "forced penetration" so unless a woman is forcibly inserting an object into an orifice, the woman cannot be charged with rape, and statistics are not even kept.
I am a strong believer in equality, but you can't keep moving the goalposts to the point where one group is always the perpetrator and the other is always the victim. There are perpetrators in every group, and victims in every group, but your proposal is absolutely ludicrous and would never work in our society.
A "domestic violence" call means the man is arrested, even if he is the victim. You are proposing virtually the same thing for sexual assault.
4
Lord help me, I agree with Devos on this issue. What strange times....
10
This is just like the catholic church scandal. In 20 years (if we are alive), we will learn than over 1,000 victims were raped by at least 300 perpetrators on college campuses and we did nothing to prevent it.
4
Wait! wait! wait! We are supposed to take seriously laws and rules about sexual assault from the TRUMP administration?
Is this some kind of sick joke?
8
Hell may not have frozen over but it must be right at 31 degrees. I find my self agreeing with Betsy DeVos.
9
I am a daily critic of the Trump administration, and I am not fond of Ms. DeVos either. She seems entirely unqualified for her position. But, amazingly, they are getting it 100% right here.
I had a friend whose son was accused of sexual assault on the campus of a private university several years back. Her son was in the early days of his senior year. The girl who accused him had slept with dozens of males in the preceding months, it was clear she had a drinking problem and a lack of sexual control as a consequence. She accused my friend's son and two other kids. No criminal charges were ever filed due to insufficient evidence, but all of the boys were virtually summarily expelled. Every presumption was against them. Her son even had text messages from the accuser the next day saying she had a good time. It was obvious she was retaliating because his interest in her was limited.
The financial consequences probably went in to the tens of thousands of dollars for my friend, and probably hundreds if you take into account the time lost starting his career. I was staggered to hear how primitive and brutal the university administrative process was--the kid was completely railroaded. He has never recovered emotionally.
These changes sound like they address many of those exact procedural injustices. I am proud to be immediate in my condemnation of Trump as he gets it wrong daily, but when his team gets it right I am equally glad to admit that as well.
126
I may get criticized for this but as a committed Christian I cannot help but think the Church is much to blame for such corruption in Society at large. Recent scandals within the Catholic Church provide ample example of this, but Protestant Churches are, I've little doubt, equally guilty. The Church as failed Society by not providing the supreme moral example it should have provide and should continue to provide. It is an affront to Christ and terrible witness to the onlooking world. As the Church goes, to some degree, so goes Society, IMHO. Thus we within the Church bear responsibilty; and one could extend that to the Synagogue and Mosque as well our Religious Institutions have failed in moral instruction and the impartation of Godly values in this generation; we deseve the rebuke of Society and we surely need to cleanup our own act, and serve as the Beacon and Light we are called to be.
2
Until proven guilty, of course, the accused happen to have rights, too, along with a presumption of innocence.
10
Rape and sexual assault are crimes.
This country has, over hundreds of years, developed a mechanism for dealing with accusations of crimes. That is the criminal justice system. Alleged crimes should be promptly reported to law enforcement. The law enforcement establishment has tried and true methods of dealing with accusations, protecting the rights of the accused, admitting (or refusing) evidence at trial, and a balanced determination of guilt.
Academics know almost nothing of this. A professor of Greek Literature, for example, should not be put in the position of adjudicating such matters, which are far outside his training and expertise. It is true that the experts in the judicial system sometimes get it wrong, but they are far more likely to get it right than untrained people who know almost nothing about how to deal with these matters.
Turning this over to amateurs and then allowing them to lower the standard of proof has produced many injustices, and was a crazy idea to begin with. It is time to back off and allow the experts to deal with this.
22
When Betsey DeVoss refers to offering support for the victims does she mean the men who are accused? Are they the victims in her twisted cultish mind? She seems to have little respect for women in general and I find her to be very disturbing person with a dangerous & sinister agenda.
8
@Sandra Garratt Sometimes men can be victims at the receiving end of accusations of sexual assault. Of course, rape is a crime and if a woman says no this should be respected. However, not all women are all virtuous by nature, and not all men are potential rapists.
14
Article published last year in Scientific American had some surprising statistics on Sexual Victimization. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women...
1
relying on colleges to sort this out has to stop. assault is a crime and needs to be treated as such by the local police.
14
Oh no, rights for those accused of wrongdoing! What’s next, a trial by a jury of their peers and the right not to incriminate themselves? This is outrageous!
14
I am unclear on why charges of sexual assault on campus aren't handled by the police.
Anyone understand this? I'm seriously asking.
132
@Diego They absolutely can be handled by the police. Nothing stops that. Title IX hearings do not supersede the law. Their purpose is to determine whether an individual has violated the policies of the college. If a sexual harassment or sexual assault claim is substantiated, then the college can use that to apply their own campus sanctions on the student or faculty member, like a no-contact order or expulsion from the campus. The alleged victim is always free to press criminal charges or sue the alleged perpetrator.
6
@Danielle Thank you. That makes sense - by which I mean understand what you wrote. It's sad to think that a concerted effort to educate women (and men) that they should go straight to the cops might be needed - but it looks like that's where we're at.
At the same time it wouldn't hurt if the police had a better record of handling sexual assault cases sensitively and competently...
4
@Diego
Agree - Call the police and treat campus assault like an adult crime. I don't think it's within the school's administrative responsibilities to mete out punishment without proof of guilt. Most of these are he-said, she-said and there is no way for a 3rd party to know what happened. An obvious exception occurs when multiple women complain about a man.
I believe it's Title 9 that requires this of schools. As much as I hate to agree with Betsy, she seems right on this one
As someone who works with these issues regularly on a college campus I would like to reiterate that not accusers are female and not all accused are male. Not all violations happen in the basement of fraternity houses, and many situations are fairly egregious.
11
Since virtually 100% of accused students are male, this in effect privileges them over their accusers at universities that should never act as courts of law in the first place.
Colleges and universities, leave such questions to prosecutors, defense attorneys, juries and judges! Get out of the business of determining truthfulness and guilt altogether. It will save you time and money, and it will put you on the right side of history.
4
Regardless of one's opinion of the Obama and Trump rules, it is reasonable to anticipate that the next Democrat President will rescind the new rules and reinstitute the old rules. Then the subsequent Republican will bring back the Trump rule, and so on... leaving no one confident of what to do and when.
3
These new standards, while perhaps laudable in some respects, presume a police department that is willing and able to pursue charges of sexual assault with well-trained officers and adequate resources.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune recently did an in-depth report entitled "When rape happens in Minnesota and nothing happens." An investigation by more than 1000 reports of violent sexual assault over a two year period found that "In almost a quarter of the cases, police never assigned an investigator [and] in about one-third of them, the investigator never interviewed the victim. In half the cases, police failed to interview potential witnesses... and about 75 percent, including violent rapes by strangers — were never forwarded to prosecutors for criminal charges." At least 50 of these cases involved men who had been named or convicted of previous assaults "yet these men were rarely arrested when they turned up a second or third time in a police report."
If this is how violent sexual assaults are handled in some police departments, what hope would victims have that more subtle sexually harassing behaviors on campuses would be addressed at all?
5
@RedQueen
Guess what? Minnesotans are responsible for what their police force and prosecutors do and don't do. Have you made it crystal clear that YOUR expectations are? Do you contact your elected officials and tell them how you want them to vote?
The government works for the public good when the Public uses their voice and votes to promote good. Secondly, do you support additional funding for manpower to investigate the increasing amount of crimes? Are you willing to sit on a jury to decide these cases? If you even hesitate a second to answer Yes to ALL of these, then you need to consider becoming part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.
4
The Obama/Duncan rules likely helped many women who were victims of sexual assault on campus, by punishing their perpetrators, through expulsion or suspention. But a very heavy price was paid. The campus adjudication process made a mockery of justice, and from all indications, many innocent people (almost always men) were punished as well. That's not how things are supposed to work in the United States. Those falsely accused men with economic resources were able to defend themselves in courts of law, by filing suits. Those without such resources often had their lives effectively destroyed.
Unlike the Obama/Duncan rules, the proposed revisions seem to strike a much more reasonable balance, between the rights of victims to some measure of justice, and the rights of the accused to due process, and a fair and impartial hearing.
President Obama was a professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago before he entered politics; Arne Duncan ran Chicago public schools. It is unfathomable how such individuals could have imposed, without so much as a public comment period, the truly unjust and un-American system that preceded Ms. DeVos's revisions.
10
Obama's memo on sexual harassment was one of his biggest mistakes as President. I'm surprised that hasn't gotten greater attention.
It's one thing to stiffen the sentences for people convicted of sexual assault. Sure!
But Obama wanted to make universities responsible for punishing all people accused of sexual assault, whether or not there was sufficient evidence to convict that person of a crime.
I said this on another comment today: I'm always bewildered when liberals demand tougher sentences from the judicial system. In the case of the MeToo movement, they want tougher sentences on people who haven't even been convicted. And the left still hasn't given up on this, nor seen the danger of it, even after a change in government.
Let us hope that Trump does not govern by the standards of the MeToo movement, or by the standards that Obama established with this mistaken policy on colleges. Because if he does ... well, imagine a society where you could turn in your neighbors and they are considered guilty until proven innocent. It's not far away.
12
Even a broken clock is occasionally right.
Schools have no business adjudicating crimes of any sort.
Now as a corollary to this, can we have an investigation of these creepy armed campus police forces that are vested with so much power -- and that are FAR from transparent to the public and taxpayers?
6
Incidents of alleged sexual assault or harassment too often reduce down to he said, she said. Even evidence of intercourse isn't dispositive without the context of how the intercourse came to pass. It doesn't help that one or both parties may have imbibed to excess.
What women come to know, and what the Obama rules tried to recognize, was the frequency of unwanted male sexual aggression on or near campus. It's hard to know where to draw the line, but the new DeVos guidance seems designed to provide greater protections for college (mostly white) men.
Men, for their part, could more often choose to behave honorably around women. (Trump, of course, is NOT a role model!) Young women should probably be more suspicious of men and more careful, particularly when alcohol is available.
Women might have one powerful new tool. With the ubiquity of smart phones, maybe an app (or just the voice memo function) could record appropriate mutual consent (or protestations to the contrary) before sex.
A smart phone, perhaps a friend's, can also video record repeated harassment in public. A posting to YouTube can go viral and quickly bring public shame down on perpetrators. Or at least it could provide evidence for a school hearing.
3
I am utterly afraid of an America and a YuTube where people are taking videos and planting them to criminalize people.
If someone edits it or pauses briefly during filming, it is quite easy to bias a listening sympathizer and fraudulently accuse someone.
1
@Amit C.
That's a very fair point. Trolling is widespread and abusive. But social media could still be useful in flagrant cases. My key point in this regard was the recording of evidence to get beyond contradictory narratives that otherwise lack corroboration for either side. Men, particularly prominent ones, might also want evidence for their own protection.
1
I don't have a problem with this. Colleges have done a poor job of meting out justice for both parties. They shouldn't be involved, law enforcement should be instead.
3
Much has been written in response to this article about protecting the rights of the accused, which is important. Reasonable safeguards and procedure are required to unearth and evaluate evidence so a fair and just outcome is achieved. Many of those who make this assertion seemingly forget that few people making accusations of being harassed or assaulted do so for any other reason than they were victimised. Moreover, the effects of sexual assault and harassment are in most cases severe, deeply troubling and long lasting, undermining victims' rights and ability to complete their education. Schools are involved in the adjudication of these acts between students because ongoing harassment and intimidation of victims within school environments compounds trauma already suffered. Relying solely on police and courts does not address victims' vulnerability within the school community and is inadequate to protect victims from further abuse on a day to day basis. Consequently, schools must be involved and have well developed and transparent processes to deal with assault and harassment from both points of view.
It is a balancing act to adequately accommodate both sides' interests and needs. Just because it is a difficult task, doesn't mean schools shouldn't be required to do so and get it right.
2
It seems reasonable to suspect this is the administration's rebuke to the #MeToo era, which was in part, inspired by the infamous Access Hollywood tape.
2
Even the idea that that the accused and the accuser have a chance to cross examine each other is inhumane. You are forcing someone who has potentially been assaulted to be verbally attacked and shamed by that same person. The only intent in this scenario is to reduce reporting. There is already so much shame in coming forward, this just amplifies that and increases the likelihood that crimes will not be reported, it gives those with the most power more power and an opportunity to keep their predatory behavior in play and unchecked. If we didn't get this concept from the #metoo movement you weren't paying attention or you were one of those doubting the sincerity of the victims that had held their shame inside for decades. "Why didn't they come forward sooner, they are just looking for attention." I hear playing over and over in my head, mostly from those less likely to be assaulted. You've never been a survivor if you have the audacity to think that. Some people have so much shame that they will never share their story and guess what? It still doesn't make the situation or assault their fault.
5
The rights of the accused have been protected for centuries by custom, the legal system, the Catholic Church, and the police. What has never been protected are the rights of the victims - who often are people who believe the abuse was their fault. Especially if the victim was also a victim of childhood abuse, which is often the case. These people, as a result of their childhood experiences, believe at a subconscious level that they deserve abuse and that the abuse was their fault. They are ready victims for the next abuser. That DeVos is mucking about in a situation about which she is stunningly ignorant is just another example of the extreme cruelty and dysfunction of this administration - an administration that believes in protecting the already wealthy and powerful. Like money for arming schools when teachers have to use their own money for things like chalk and books. Theater of the absurd in action.
4
the latest from Betsy DeVos, the person who wants to help predatory student loan lenders at the expense of students...
4
A truly christian woman standing up for the rapists & sexual abusers. Why does she not ban alcohol & drugs on college campuses that lead to rape & sexual assault? Tie that to their federal aid. I agree that there is a problem with false reports but if the victim goes to the hospital & police before going to college there will be more investigating. Maybe that will hurt the colleges Devos is trying to protect. It has been proven that going to the college high-ups does nothing. Devos is all about protecting the money from the colleges that she will collect after she leaves office.
Finally a bit of sanity from the insane. Who would have thought possible.
5
That's just what colleges need: more people standing up against women in defense of rapists.
3
I'm not sure why the NYT would publish an article on Title IX that only mentions Title IX once and does a terrible job of explaining why sexual misconduct is a Title IX issue. Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 is a Federal civil rights law that prohibits sex discrimination in education programs that receive Federal funding. The law has not changed, it's interpretation has expanded, in that it recognizes that sexual harassment that's so severe, persistent, or pervasive that it denies an individual opportunities (hostile environment), is a form of sex discrimination. This interpretation actually started with Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. The "assault, harassment, or rape" allegations that DeVos is addressing, are being addressed in the context of the fact that they are forms of sex discrimination. Furthermore, the article states "But for what appears to be the first time, the federal government would go beyond guidance and recommendations to codify how it defines sexual harassment in the nation’s schools and the steps institutions are legally required to take to address it" which is grossly incorrect. Please see 34 CFR sec. 106, where Title IX is codified in 1975. Also, the notice and comment period was done in the 2001 Guidance.
There are many reasons that schools should respond to allegations of sexual misconduct (negligence claims aren't going anywhere), but we are talking about Title IX here, and while some sexual misconduct IS Title IX, sometimes it's not
4
Did I miss something? NYT says it has obtained a copy of the proposed rules. Where is it? I would prefer to read the proposed new rules myself, rather than rely on the paraphrasing in this article.
4
Coming from a Amway heiress this is not a surprise. A shame and a scam, but not a suprise
2
Why?
Absolutely sickening ... when will the war against women stop? When will women stop perpetuating misogyny and doing the bidding of men against women? My goodness, don't you have any self-worth??? We need a French Revolution in this Country! Women need to lead us out of this insanity ... before it is too late! VOTE! RESIST!
4
Whatever the merits of the Education Department's planned sexual misconduct rules for colleges, it is a shame that the controversy over the Obama rules has given the awful Ms. DeVos an opportunity to come off as fair-minded towards all sides.
1
"They are 'a tacit endorsement of making campuses a safer place to commit sexual assault, rather than a safer place to learn free from violence,' said Jess Davidson, the executive director of End Rape on Campus."
Due process is just too inconvenient for those with a tremendous investment in their own misery.
4
Victim blaming and shaming, and giving perps an easier way to avoid justice; sounds about right for DeVos and the GOP.
4
It troubles me that 1 in 5 women experience some sort of physical assault while in college and that many believe that it's the men that are under attack. Right.
3
The proposed regulations do not define what constitutes a “hostile environment” for victims as previous guidance did, but does allow a school to remove an accused person from campus after conducting a safety and risk assessment.
___
That's going to rile the Unions, esp., if one of the accused is tenured.
Where is this not a victory to provide a safe/r learning environment for all students [and faculty]?
Aren't we talking about adults? Or are college kids somehow exempt from the rules that apply to kids on street corners or those who work at MacDonald's?
We do tend to pamper college kids to a degree that is not realistic for much of society, especially kids who don't have the same advantages.
6
We are, supposedly, a nation of laws. If an actual crime is committed, the proper process is to notify the police who will take statements and collect evidence in the standard manner. Upon probable cause, an arrest can be made if warranted. The local prosecutor can seek an indictment if warranted, and the accused will have access to an attorney should such access be desired. In the event that the matter goes before a dully constituted court of competent jurisdiction, a well understood process will govern the proceedings. While no system is perfect, this will help ensure that the rights of both the victim and the accused are protected. Colleges are not courts of competent jurisdiction and teachers and students who play the roles of judge and prosecutor are essentially practicing law without a license which is in itself a criminal offense. Schools should be schools and not courts of law. The regulations enacted under the Obama administration were overreach.
14
well deVos may never have been raped or had a single incident that scared her out of her wits. lucky woman. many others are not so lucky. but, she's a trump person; she doesn't give a damn.
9
Trump must be thinking of getting a teaching job after he leaves the White House...
7
To date, colleges have lost dozens of court cases where the falsely accused were denied basic protections all Americans should take for granted. (Oddly, the NY Times does not cover these cases but a list of them compiled by the scholar KC Johnson can be found here: //docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CsFhy86oxh26SgTkTq9GV_BBrv5NAA5z9cv178Fjk3o/edit#gid=0
The cases reveal a pattern in which college administrators--sometimes naive and well-meaning but often deeply ideological--get caught up in the stories of accusers that later turn out to be unreliable. They don't stop to consider how the stories might be exaggerated or vindictive, or even contain evidence of the accuser's own misconduct.
It's a "public safety" hysteria that African-Americans have seen many times before. That so many well-meaning liberals and progressives don't is a matter to reflect on.
15
The Obama Administration rules created an atmosphere in which a single unfounded allegation not only condemned the accused, but obligated the educational institution to create it's own in-house judicial system. There was no standard for the burden of proof or the introduction or preservation of evidence. All things that the justice system is obligated to comply with, schools and universities were allowed to skirt.
If there is a crime that has occurred, then the accuser should be obligated to report it to the proper law enforcement agency and allow a legal investigation to occur. This is the only way to ensure that a crime can be investigated and prosecuted, the rights of the accused to be respected and the privacy of the victim preserved.
139
@Mike We need to teach our daughters that sexual assault and harassment are crimes to be reported to police without shame or recrimination.
4
I suggest women harassed, molested, or raped totally skip informing the school. Go straight to the local police. Sign a complaint & demand the man involved be arrested, strip searched, have blood taken (for a drug screening), & a DNA sample taken. All to be entered into a digital record under his name & SS number for LIFE. With the DNA data put in all national data banks. Then the worst he has to fear is NOT being expelled, it’s hard time in a hard core prison, for perhaps decades. Maybe life. Remember ladies, do not wash before going to the police, or change clothes. Do bring an advocate (every campus should have an organization to provide same. This is not something schools should be taking care of, any more than if you are at a friends house & are sexually molested, assaulted, raped, or even harassed, would you only go to the friend’s father for help? No you would call the police. That’s what they are there for. Let all men know that if they do such things they will not get suspended or expelled (in todays climate, just a slap on the wrist they can talk their way out of at another school), they will face our laws, & potential sentences.
1
Sexual misconduct is much more a male problem. Hopefully more women will stop voting for republicans.
5
@tbs
You're right, though most people would be surprised to know that over 1 in 3 underage sex abuse victims are male, and that 40% of their attackers (and 15% of girl victims' attackers) are female.
2
@Jojojo
Those attackers are usually mothers and caregivers.
Gosh, more "magical logic" from the Trump administration. Maybe Ms DeVos needs a sit-down with Roxanne Gay before she takes this any farther.
History has taught us re this general issue(not this specific story) that you don't want extreme right women haters making up the laws and procedures re this issue neither do you want extreme male hating feminists doing the same thing.
2
What is wrong with this woman?
2
I’ve enjoyed reading the comments. Lots of thinking going on here.
I have some modest others.
I know a very famous college president whose introduction, in private, is this - “hi! I’m x...and I’m personally responsible for the sexual behavior of 70,000 people!”
The sexual assault rate on any college campus, and the trends in that, will never vary from the sexual assault rate of any city or town with the same number of people in it that are mostly under 25 years old. What are the rates in those places? Are university sexual assault/harassment rates lower or higher than that?
I can’t help but think that America’s obsession about this issue is tied to the blond-haired, blue-eyed, upper-middle-class blond we see as the “typical victim”. There are thousands of sexual crimes perpetrated in cities to people that don’t fit this script, and nobody there has a cabinet position obsessed with their well-being.
And...once again, we have another issue that those that can’t do university work (but who draw a paycheck there) can obsess about to distract from their fundamentally poor and incompetent performance. I work for a university and, in addition to title Ix, I want title x - get rid of the rent collectors who can’t do the work!
39
@kevin Great observation in comparison between University harrasment rate and that of the general public. A University is a quasi employer; hence, must strive for a workplace (study place) free from sexual harrasment.
Interesting. I've read through close to a hundred comments, and I've not seen one that supported the Obama rules.
Many readers identify themselves as liberal (like me) and/or haters of DeVos and Trump (like me.) And I've yet to see one comment that doesn't generally approve of her proposals (like me.)
The Obama policy ruined lives with Star Chamber, Sharia within Constitutional law, proceedings, even when sometimes there was recantation or co-culpability.
I think it also speaks highly of many NYT readers to set aside the source and look at the situation.
14
"The regulations require that schools approach all investigations under the presumption that the accused is innocent until proved guilty."
Wow! What a concept. Innocent until proven guilty. How can one explain the fact that the, supposedly, "lawless" Trump regime actually encourages colleges to follow the law unlike the previous administration?
If one didn't know better one might get the idea that Obama put ideology and political correctness ahead of our constitution while Trump actually believes the US constitution should be followed. Good thing we have the NY Times around to spin things otherwise people might get the wrong idea in their empty little heads.
11
I guess DeVos doesn't understand the difference between laws, rules and guidelines. Why am I not surprised. Maybe rape should be legalized to end the confusion.
2
Parents: drill it into your child's head that if they experience sexual assault or harassment on campus, it needs to be reported to the local police department. College and university deans and security departments will automatically protect their own interests first, and not the victims'.
11
More than ever, students must protect themselves. That was a primary impetus in developing The Pride. We enable users to ensure they get a perfectly timed phone call or in person interruption, allowing them to end the encounter.
We cannot rely on anyone else to do this; we must form our own communities to end sexual assault.
1
This is great news for young men who currently face a biased system. However, with the wave of feminists running for office, I'm afraid these protections may be short-lived.
9
The insidious thing about sexual assault/harassment is that often times, it cannot be empirically proven (groping, eyeing, molestation). I find most of the comments in support of Ms. DeVos's proposal to be disingenuous, acting like a preponderance of evidence standard is somehow an insta-conviction or that anyone who supports a more nuanced standard of proof beyond hardcore forensics must be diametrically opposed to due process.
3
I find it disingenuous that you would categorize “eyeing” as sexual assault. This is why these issues need to be addressed in a court of law.
3
If not using empirically proven evidence to establish preponderance of guilt, what are universities using. Comments like yours are why people have valid concerns about the process President Obama established.
3
I am not sure how the trump decree will have the force of law but the obama rules didn't, it will be interesting to see how that works out in court.
The DeVos rules swing the pendulum too far to the right in an over-correction to the Obama-era rules.
In trying to be as supportive as possible to people who said they were victims, the Obama-era rules trod on the rights of the accused and made it into a kangaroo court situation whereby the victim's claim instantly convicted the accused. No Evidence Required.
The level of evidence should be clear and convincing, this is not small claims court, this is someones entire life and reputation.
Letting schools off the hook for responsibility of knowing is troubling as is not holding them accountable for events at frats and other not-specifically-sanctioned events.
Letting the school decide if there is an appeal or what standard to use is unacceptable, particularly if that choice is one for every case or decided on a case-by-case basis.
The Obama rules let someone claim to be a victim is the accused looked at them cross-eyed, but the Trump rules require a level of physical attack not usually documentable by the victim of a real physical assault.
I despise DeVos and Trump but there is some, certainly not much, good in this change.
1
President Obama never published an order. He had the Education Secretary send a letter to every college stating the Administration believed preponderance, not reasonable doubt, and college courts were appropriate. It never had a review period. Universities jumped on the letter and set up the process we had. Secretary DeVos also sent a letter rescinding the previous letter and now has issued a regulation. This draft will follow the rule of law, e.g., 6 months of comments, final proclamation, before being in force.
Finally, one thing from DeVos that I can agree with...providing the accused more protections and rights. With all the sexual harassment claims that are made, and most recently the huge increase in complaints from mostly women against men, the accused is always just automatically deemed guilty by the mere utterance of an accusation. This is plain wrong. Our “Justice” system is so badly broken and with sexual harassment it is so easy to destroy the reputation of someone without any real evidence just by accusing them of touching you, whether in a sexual manner or just a perceived sexual manner, or saying something you didn’t like. And the accused is vilified without any due process. The entire concept of innocent until proven guilty has never existed in this country. We like to say it, but nobody is considered innocent until proven, just considered guilty. The media is especially to blame for this. The accused of any crime, once the media has it, they are portrayed guilty by the media and deemed guilty by public opinion. This needs to stop in order for justice to be fair and impartial.
The only parts of the new university rules I don’t like, and the real reason they are going to be implemented, is to allow the institutions of high learning to be held less accountable, and therefore protect them from lawsuits, even if they are grossly negligent in providing a safe learning environment for students. And to do away with any appeals process is utterly ridiculous for all involved.
4
Interestingly, the comments on this article all seem to point to a general consensus that bypassing due process and demanding that Universities try the accused on a weighted scale is wrong.
Special Interests and activists groups have a tendency to control the narrative with false claims, more commonly referred to as "Political Facts". A series of false claims, then protests, any questioning met with "you bigot", then a demand that laws are tilted in favor of one group.
Glad to see common sense prevailing.
10
Assault, molestation and rape are more common than people know at colleges across the country. We send our children off to experience college not knowing that there are predators waiting. Colleges, historically advocate for the institution and want a quick resolution. They have no empathy for the victims only for the bottom line. That is why the honor code and hearing systems set up favor the institution and the perpetrator at the expense of the victims. The Obama administration had it right but now this administration sides with the business side of the equation. The institutions have a vested interest in the outcome so why are they put in charge of the investigation and hearings. There must be a better way! The judicial system already exists for these types of crimes. Our children have a right to feel safe as they continue their education and victims have a right to be heard.
2
@Manuel Lucero Correct, the judicial system does exist to resolve these types of crimes and allowing a university "judicial system" to opine ruins live. Betsy DeVos and Donald Trump did the right thing today.
3
Being in agreement that courts, ergo our legal system, are the judiciary for any and all cases of alleged criminal sexual behavior, I also include religious organizations and institutions which now "police" themselves. Refer to Catholic church covering criminal sexual behaviors. They are the glaring example, but make no mistake that religion does not automatically mean purity and virtuosity. Many scoundrels hide behind the pious mask which bring us back to Ms. DeVos.
Our Catholic Bishop, following what most bishops have done, has a policy to report all accusations to local municipal police department. They let the victim decide on whether to allow a press release. The victim can not determine whether to make the police report. Universities will likely follow the same policy. If someone makes an accusation, he or she have to deal with the officers of the law and everyone involved will follow due process.
1
@Joanne K
Yours is an apt comparison. Having colleges and universities conduct investigations and render judgements is akin to allowing the Catholic Church to investigate pedophile priests.
1
What the question should be is if these rules where applied to Betsy Devos's place of work how would she feel if she had to file a case of sexual misconduct, would she be intimidated or emboldened by the rules.
1
Schools are ill equipped to handle sex crimes. That is a law enforcement matter.
They should be held accountable however for creating a safe environment, with fairness for all. The fairness is where the problems begin.
2
I might be more comfortable with the new guidelines if a) I'd actually seen the text of them b) I didn't know where they were coming from. Given Ms. De Vos's history so far I can't feel good about most anything that comes from her department. When you consider that her demonstrated intent so far has been to protect the monied and the powerful it doesn't leave me with a good feeling about who the new rules are supposed to protect. I can't think that it's the students she has in mind.
1
This issue needs to be based for the most part on legal authority. When we start determining the innocence or guilt of a person without due process afforded by legal proceedings we are starting down a slippery slope from which there is no recovery. Universities need a very specific codes of ethics that is explained to all students and if the students do not follow that code the outcome for them will not be favorable. Universities that ban the possession of alcohol and drugs on campus have fewer issues with sexual misconduct. Maybe they should all try that approach.
66
@clayton e woodrum
one correction. Universities that ban alcohol have a lower reported number of instances, but they also have a higher drop out rate.
1
Or maybe we could try educating children about abuse, as many schools and parents are already doing? Maybe we could go for the roots of the dandelions and not just lop off the heads?
@clayton e woodrum Which Universities don't ban drugs on campus...?
How about the education department have no such rules and allow the states or the justice department to decide how to intemperate laws. They don't appear to be competent to do so, probably best left to the states.
The new rules, once implemented, will likely remove universities from the equation. Running trials per due process and meeting beyond reasonable doubt are above the typical administrator’s paygrade. Schools will simply notify the police. The rules will protect them, absent anything done by school in the original crime. Problem resolved.
Due process for all students? Rigorous cross-examination of accusers? Innocent till proven guilty? This is an outrage, and DeVos must go!
14
@Ed L
At the very least please do not be so dismissive of sex crimes. Rape is serious and deserves to be treated as such.
1
@BMUS
Equally serious is the rights of the accused. These reforms address past injustices with the potential, at least, of preventing future miscarriages of justice relating to the Obama Administration's botched Title IX guidance.
No one should get in the way of punishing some one proven to have committed a crime.
3
But what about the case of a student who was found not guilty by a jury in a criminal case? He still has to defend himself in a university procedure. What if the university finds him guilty and expels him. Last week in the news here was girl going to prison for falsely accusing someone of rape. I can envision a victim bringing a ligitimate charge, and end up being charged for making a false complaint.
2
@William Carlson The question is how and in what forum is someone "proven" to have committed a crime. Colleges should not be presiding over criminal prosecutions period. As for their turning their Title IX tribunals into quasi-criminal prosecutions, these new rules simply require that the colleges afford due process rights to the accused. A kangaroo court that does't permit the accused to retain counsel; to face and cross examine his or her accuser; or to examine all evidence being used against him or her has proven nothing other than that a stacked deck wins every time. Everyone should get in the way of presumption of guilt by virtue of an accusation.
6
@Allen
This is why these cases should only be handled by off campus police departments. Universities are entities unto themselves. They are in the business of education not law enforcement. They are in the business of making themselves look good.
There have been too many well documented sex assault cases of accused students being railroaded out of schools by kangaroo court proceedings where they were prohibited from being represented by counsel, or allowed to have a lawyer, who could say nothing in the proceeding, and most importantly were denied the right to cross examine their accuser. The results of an expulsion from a school for sexual assault are life destroying. It will be impossible to get admission to another school. The lack of a college education will result in a life long destruction of earnings. Where the accuser alleges criminal conduct, the accused should be allowed the fundamental due process rights of discovery of relevant information relied on by the school to develop its charges, a right to representation by counsel who can advocate for the accused and the right to confrontation and cross examination of witnesses including the accuser. Yes it’s emotionally difficult to be cross examined in a sex assault case, but it is the price we pay to assure fairness and due process, bedrock rights of every American.
12
Maybe accuses will think twice before ruining people's lives and get their facts straight, this is serious business!
10
@There
Maybe rapists should not rape. Maybe rapists should not slip drugs into their intended victims drinks rendering them incapable of crying for out help or defending themselves.
11
@BMU
When someone makes an accusation against another, that person should be prepared to back it up.
Those who allege sexual assault get no free pass.
Although the responsibility for sexual assault rests upon the individual who commits the crime, one might do well to avoid those occasions in which such assaults might happen.
Stay away from bars, frat parties, etc. where one is likely to be victimized.
You'll be safer that way.
jbartelloni
If a victim is slipped a date rape drug there will be no evidence of a struggle because the victim can’t struggle. These drugs clear the system quickly, that is why they are used to render a victim immobile. What evidence do you suggest the victim present? I made no mention of the gender of the perp.
Yes, I well know how to protect myself. As a woman I learned early. I do have a niece, nephew and the children of friends in mind, or should I forget about them?
1
911, what's your emergency? I was raped on campus. Not the city's jurisdiction, call your campus police. Campus Police, what's your emergency? I've been raped. We don't care. Betsy DeVoss said we don't have to.
8
We ask way too much of schools these days... we're going to turn them into police stations to handle complaints, judges to administer justice, and prisons to house the students in the name of protecting them from the outside world.
If someone is harassing you, or sexually assaults you... don't go to your principal... go to the police. It's like being assaulted in a grocery store, you don't take that up with the store manager, do you? No... you call a cop.
14
Finally some sanity around sexual harassment. The Supreme Court standards for a violation relieves the judicial system and college quasi judicial systems from frivolous charges, emotional regrets, retribution, or willful revenge. It removes a reverse sexual power play to discriminate against men.
19
This is totally consistent with the opportunistic Trump family cohort and cabinet. If it’s obnoxious and sure to progress back 100 years.... even better.
3
Schools have no business investigating crimes of any nature. All crimes that allegedly occur on campuses need to be referred to law enforcement.
21
"responding to the "Me Too" movement by putting in more pro rape policies. this isnt about protecting the accused this is about protecting rapists. "
I understand the impulse to try and catch every dispicable rapist and mete out some kind of rough frontier justice. I too want every bad guy caught and every innocent person cleared.
But we don't live in TV Land.
The innocent must be protected even at the cost of some bad guys getting away because there's not enough evidence to convict. That is what Due Process is about and what the rules of evidence are about and what our constitutional rights are about.
Crimes are committed every day by both men and women. To claim that every alleged rape victim is telling the truth is as absurd as claiming that every alleged denial of rape is true. Due process is how this gets imperfectly sorted out. This is real life.
The burden of not getting justice when there is not enough evidence to convict is a burden of a free society. Lawsuits are the other legal remedy that legally and constitutionally have a lower standard of proof.
In traffic court they dispense with presumption of innocence. The defendant is presumed guilty and carries the burden of proving they are innocent of the infraction of which they are accused. I am no fan of Devos or Trump or the Trumpian GOP. But Obama got this wrong. This is not traffic court. This is real life.
23
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Here Devos did exactly the right thing, particularly in rescinding punishment for "unwelcome" actions which could essentially consist of any behavior. Bravo!
16
It sounds to me like the accused would be able to ask the alleged victim about her or his sexual history and would then be free to publicize her alleged sexual history or his version of it. So anyone who is not a virgin would not want to report assault.Also, virgins wouldn't want to report it either because he could still publish that she "asked for it".
It also sounds like faculty could do whatever they want to students in off campus residences.
2
If you break the law (wherever it is on American) soil ), then the laws of the Constitution are applicable, as well as possible federal, state and local laws.
If you are assaulted in any way (sexually or otherwise) then your first action (at the earliest possible point) is to call 911. Forget about whatever silly regulations that the campus or Mrs. Devos has implemented. They are irrelevant.
Know your rights and apply them.
18
If you break the law (wherever it is on American) soil ), then the laws of the Constitution are applicable, as well as possible federal, state and local laws.
If you are assaulted in any way (sexually or otherwise) then your first action (at the earliest possible point) is to call 911. Forget about whatever silly regulations that the campus or Mrs. Devos has implemented. They are irrelevant.
Know your rights and apply them.
1
The War on Women is really gaining strength. Vote Democrat for women as human beings.
7
Curtail alcohol use on campus and you'll eliminate 50 percent of sexual assault instances.
16
There going to be due process, finally donald appointee does something correct.
Let's not forget Duke Lacrosse and Columbia's Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight) (2014–2015) by Emma Sulkowicz.
23
@vincent
Let us not forget Larry Nassar, Michigan State University, and USA Gymnastics collective sexual abuse of over 200 girls for years.
Both cases exemplify why sex crimes or suspicion of sex crimes should be reported to off-campus police. Make them listen.
10
It’s just bizarre. She’s creating an atmosphere for students to be cheated, molested, and shot. Did I miss anything else?
7
Yes, you missed the part about due process of law. You know, the protections 800 years of people fought for to prevent injustice.
15
@DC Indeed, you missed our entire legal system wherein the due process rights of the accused have long been enshrined, and rightfully so. We do not have a presumption of guilt in this country. It amazes me that so many commenters seem to think that there is an exception to the rights of the accused when it comes to sexual assault cases. Even when an accused's liberty is not under threat, his or her continued pursuit of a college education and future livelihood is at stake and that means protections must be and now will be afforded.
6
@Frank
Got that right.
Always report any sexual abuse you suffer at school to the police. Let them redirect you to the school authorities if they find it is in their jurisdiction, but know they know who to keep an eye on when they get outside complaints.
Enough of this fake justice. If it's a crime, don't waste your time with DeVos's cover story. Report it to police and let them sort these cover uppers out.
11
She has no business having this job, she’s inexperienced and out of touch with the real world. She needs to stay out of this and leave well enough alone. Protecting sexual predators and their rights when accused of a sexual crime and the college campuses on which they occur is a slap in the face to victims of sexual assault all over the country. This isn’t her job and should be left to judges, of counsel attorneys for the colleges, politicians and law makers, not to a person who lacks common sense, compassion, integrity and who has no idea the catastrophic consequences that will occur should she go through with this foolishness.
5
@Kiki You cannot be serious. Leave well enough alone for whom? If you're a person accused under the current system, there is no well enough. Instead, you are railroaded through a kangaroo court in which your guilt is tacitly assumed from the outset and you are afforded no due process rights such as the right to an attorney, right to cross examine your accuser, right to discovery, etc. Protecting the rights of the accused is not "a slap in the face to victims of sexual assault all over the country" it is our system. It is clear that civics education in this country is nonexistent.
3
THIS is why I love that crazy, racist, narcisist known as our President, Trump (despite that I am a minority of color) May God Bless him!
6
I never thought I'd agree with Ms DeVos on anything, but this time I do.
The fact that one student's complaint could totally destroy another student (or teacher) with no due process is unacceptable. Without more precise definitions of "sexual harassment", anything can be termed as such, so that what one person might consider a gauche misdemeanor, someone else might consider as "attempted rape".
This is not surprising in an era where "I was too drunk to give consent" neatly removes all need for taking responsibility for one's choices and actions, while not allowing the same argument for the boy (I was too drunk to be a gentleman!")
Carte blanche for the accuser and no recourse to a defense for the accused is simply no longer acceptable.
27
responding to the "Me Too" movement by putting in more pro rape policies. this isnt about protecting the accused this is about protecting rapists.
6
Getting convictions in cases of sexual assault or rape is difficult because it is a matter of weighing two accounts and deciding which is to be believed, unless you have DNA evidence or a second witness. The system needs to be fair to both accuser and accused and provide an appropriate degree of support. Insofar as it is possible to tell, these changes are a step in the right direction.
12
It has come to this: Betsy DeVos has come out on the side of sexual assault. These people have absolutely no bottom.
5
@James Mazzarella
She came out in favor of due process; she did not come out in favor of sexual assault.
There is a big difference.
1
DeVos is enabling rapists. By shifting the balance from the victim to the accused she is knowingly suppressing the chances of a successful outcome by deterring the complainant from coming forward. Shame on her, she knows what she is doing.
3
@Shane Murphy I guess it seems that way when you approach these cases with a presumption of the accused's guilt. Get back to me about the inequity of shifting the balance from the victim to the accused when you are accused of something that you know you are innocent of or reasonable minds can differ on but you are forbidden to challenge in any effective way because the deck is stacked in favor of the accuser. I think if you are ever in that position, you will rightfully be howling for your due process rights.
4
It is to be expected in these parts that the picture used to illustrate an article about protections for the *accused* (probably mostly male) portrays a group of chanting accusers (all women, although two are of indeterminate gender). I wonder how the Times feels about this issue.
DeVos is undertaking a long needed and wholly just reevaluation of this whole area, which is tortured with sexual politics. You go girl.
13
Remember anything Trump and his surrogates have touched, have so far turned to manure. They should all leave before things get any worse.
2
Due Process Matters!
16
Once again, Betsy's distorted Calvinism guides her policy: victims are responsible for what happens to them--unless, of course, they are alpha males (like her boss?), in which case others have ganged up on them.
Shame, shame, shame!
3
Many years ago, at my first teaching job at Fulham Cross Girls’ School, an all girls school in the then ILEA in Fulham in West London, the female principal warned me about never speaking to any girl alone in the classroom without leaving the door open and making sure I could be seen through the open doorway.
The principal told me that she had been swimming laps at the local public pool when a teenaged boy, who was the brother of one of the girls at the school, started shouting and screaming a few feet from the principal, that she had fondled him under the water.
It was a setup, an attempt at revenge against the principal by a small group of malcontented girls at the school. The police were called by the pool manager, and the principal was interviewed under caution. She told me that she had never got over the incident, and indeed she retired some years after, long before she needed to.
Humans of both biological sexes and all chosen genders, of all ages, from all ethnic groups and from all social classes are malicious. Humans lie. Humans conspire to try to injure one another.
The single, unsupported word of any person must be treated sceptically, especially when there is a motive to commit calumny.
176
"The proposed rules, obtained by The New York Times, narrow the definition of sexual harassment, holding schools accountable only for formal complaints filed through proper authorities and for conduct said to have occurred on their campuses."
A welcome change from "who shouts the loudest".
12
Criminal accusations of a sexual nature should investigated by trained law enforcement professionals, not college administrators. And if those accusations are credible the accused should then be tried in criminal courts and judged by the standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
Everyone has rights.... especially the accused. Imagine if you or one of your children were accused...... you would want to be tried by the higher standard of proof.
12
@Matt Carey
You had me almost agreeing with you until...
"...Everyone has rights....
especially the accused..."
No!
Every one has rights.
Accused and accuser.
@Matt Carey
Good god, schools aren't "trying" anyone. These aren't criminal accusations.
Get your facts straight. This thread is full of men who are so hysteric about schools "trying" "criminal accusation" and how unfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair this is to the pooooooor menz when this is not at ALL what's happening. Want to feel better? Well, I'm hear to tell you that schools aren't trying criminal cases. Heave a sigh of relief and realize that you got what you wanted all along.
Zero credibility. Just demonstrates that men are utterly resistant to anything that asks them to take responsibility for their own actions.
2
There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING that the corrupt Trump and his cohorts lift a finger to do in an effort for justice. Anything that may be just about this is 100% coincidental. Trump and DeVos, two of the most flagrantly ignorant characters, most assuredly misunderstand the realities of what they are doing and believe it is an active effort to empower universities and the establishment to bully, demean and disenfranchise the weak.
2
Betsy Voss is the worse person to run the Dept of Education. By removing President Obama’s letter and his legacy regarding the handling of all sexual assaults/misconduct in the college system and/or K-12 schools is appalling. This woman has no clue as to what should be done to take care of those who have been raped, whether the person was male or female. This also applies to trump since he clearly stated on Access Hollywood that he had treated women badly and feels that it is perfectly ok to demean them. Both need to get out of office and take pence as well as he seems to have a disregard for women and their rights too. This is my own opinion and I know that there are people who disagree with me or feel the same way that I do.
2
The Obama policy 'letter' was his one serious political error. Not only is it illiberal to deny due process to the accused, but it also set up the opposition with a strong piece of evidence to falsely argue his over-reach in other areas.
The Republican right fights very dirty... And if you give them one inch of a mistake they will make a mile out of it. How awful that a liberal constitutional law professor with the intelligence of of Obama would set up a policy that let the Republicans look like they are the ones who support due process and rule of law.
8
@Celeste
Please don't make this a liberal versus conservative problem.
The problems of sexual assault and harassment on campus predates Obama. He was attempting to rectify the imbalance that had long existed on college and university campuses.
Schools have a long history of suppressing accusations of sexual crimes. If items from your dorm room go missing they have you file a police report. If you're mugged, file a police report. If you're raped colleges and universities will try to pressure the victim into letting the campus police and authorities handle it because they don't like reporting accurate rape statistics to the feds.
Sexual assault and harassment are reportable crimes. Assault victims need to be seen by medical professionals in a timely manner in order to collect evidence commonly known as a rape kit and receive medical treatment. Without a rape kit the victim has no physical evidence. Assault victims who wish to report a sex crime, should do so to the local police force, off-campus.
Betsy DeVos' plan is not better than Obama's. It still allows colleges and universities to conduct their own investigations while lessening their liability. They have a vested interest in protecting themselves before anyone else.
The Larry Nassar case should be a wake up call as to what happens when universities are allowed to police themselves.
2
In defense of the Obama Administration it must be said that the reason for guidelines offered were sexual harassment on college campuses makes life increasingly more difficult for college women. I am shocked that so many comments below support the accused rather than the accuser. The suggestion of the DeVos team that the victim & the accused be allowed to question each other is absurd. Both need to have a lawyer when crime has been committed. I have dear friends whose daughter was stalked on a college campus & her complaints went nowhere. She was finally grabbed and thrown in the backseat of a car in the parking lot of the school. Fortunately, her parents had gotten a mace-like device for her which she had in her pocket and she was able to free her arm and spray the guy in the face and jump out of the car and run. She escaped. Nothing ever happened to the assailant. She had to drop out of school for a semester and, after much counseling, re-enrolled at a different school. Imagine if the kidnapping had been successful? Imagine if she had to endure a questioning by her assailant following her complaint? Truly, the assailant being allowed to question the victim is the stupidest idea I have ever heard of. Obviously, the DeVos team does not understand the trauma of sexual assault or the trauma of continual harassment. Commentators here seem more concerned with the assailant's future job prospects than they are with the scars of trauma the victim must endure for life.
4
@chichimax
I hear you. I was the target of an attempted abduction while walking home from school. I was 14. I never want anyone to know what it is like to have someone try to pull you into his car. I was also fortunate. I broke away screaming. They don’t like it when you scream. It creates too much noise and draws too much attention. I’m glad to know the daughter of your friend also got away. I hope she was able to overcome it.
It’s why as a nurse I volunteered with a rape crisis center.
1
Any time the GOP take over they favor the businesses , corporations and now the colleges. I am not surprised the GOP are making it harder for the victims of sexual assault . They are cold hearted and obviously so are their supporters if they are making It tougher for victims to get justice.
1
If sexual crimes are alleged, they should immediately be referred to the police and criminal justice system. Universities have no business being involved in quasi-judicial proceedings and routinely muck them up. To protect all sides, this sort of thing should be dealt with exactly as it would be if it occurred in other settings.
222
@andrew scull
I could not agree more. Sexual assault is a crime. Period. Young adults should be taught this long before they graduate high school. I'll add that universities and their affiliates should consider the ramifications of negligence to not refer these cases to the criminal justice system immediately.
1
@andrew scull
Not so simple.
Students who feel inadequate in their studies act out and blame others for their feelings, very often. A hungry patron in a restaurant will degrade the gender of the person who is slow to bring them food. The President reserves comments about intelligence deficits for Blacks and uses more physical comments about women, ought he to be referred to the police?
In college, students who are frustrated feel they are being mistreated or rejected or that their feelings aren't being taken seriously and that's because of the specific kind of stress and pressure students and teachers are under, in that world. A hungry patron behaves more like an infant than toward the service staff out of hunger. The President is simply a shallow man who thinks, since he can pardon himself, so he is authorized to use stereotypes in his attacks. Different contexts. Different responses. To be fair, the law must treat each person differently. If Trump had a real job, for example, his boss and the Stockholders would not tolerate his banter and would dismiss or sue him. Context. The American people seem fine if the President does it, so why not the rest of us?
1
@andrew scull
Yes, sexual assault is a crime.
The police and criminal justice system are designed to deal with crimes.
Universities are not. Indeed are they are singularly unqualified do so. Their personnel lack training and motivation to deal with crime. Specifically, they lack understanding of legal requirements of due process.
I am a retired college professor.
As I read the comments I find a recurring theme,
Most assume the accuser is female.
Most assume the accused is male.
This is a false. Sexual assault happens to people of all genders by perpetrators of sexual assault are all genders.
Don’t go to campus police or official. They will protect the reputation of the university first, not you. If you want to report call the local police department instead.
This isn’t male versus female. Sexual assault can happen to anyone.
104
@BMUS+
while you are right that assault can fall across all genders the reality is fewer males will report it than females. It is a societal viewpoint problem so your complaint is a bit off base.
@BMUS true, it happens to everyone, but, try to think: is there any evidence that it happens fairly equally to males and females? no. just as there is no evidence that children molest adults in the same numbers as adults molest children. your point is pointless because it is not base in reality. the presumption that it is mostly males who assault females is as obvious as a bulge near your pants pocket. pay attention and don't cover this up with shallow thinking. that helps no one, accuser or accused.
but, yes: go to the police and drag them onto the campus. you don't go to the police because you're having trouble with man; go to the right place for the right reason.
@BMUS
Yep. Over 1/3 of underage sex abuse victims are male.
No matter where sexual assault is committed it should be reported to the local police department. All other violations of criminal law and sexual harassment also belong in our normal police departments and law courts. Universities have too often been incapable of providing justice for anyone. The changes proposed do not actually appear geared to help the victims of sexual assault nor to bring the perpetrators to justice. What a waste. Like everything else DeVos proposes, it denigrates justice, fairness and truth in education.
2
Stop trying to make education institutions do the work of the regular police( not the campus clown cops ), real prosecutors, real defense lawyers, and real judges. You claim to have been sexually bothered/assaulted/harassed? Take it to the real cops. File real charges, no flakiness in doing that saying you can't deal. Time is important and the reports need to be filed relatively rapidly, not delayed in filing for months.
3
One of the reasons we can't solve more complicated problems, is because there are people who look at this rather simple one and act like giving accused due process rights is somehow a violation on the level of sexual assault itself.
You're either in favor of due process, or your not. Don't think about it any harder than that.
140
I am certainly glad that they want to treat those accused as innocent until proven guilty. It should be the school's responsibility to prove their guilt, not their responsibility to disprove the accusation.
And I'm glad that they are looking at having a higher standard of evidence. The current standard of 50% plus one is way too low. You could literally be convicted on a coin toss! You ought to be at least 75% sure before you kick someone out of college. Being kicked out of college makes it difficult to get into another college because the new college assumes you are guilty of whatever you got kicked out for and doesn't want you in their school. That could drastically affect someone's financial future. If you are going to kick someone out of college, you'd better be sure they are guilty. It shouldn't just be a coin toss.
5
I have always found the old system, pre-Obama system from 2006, to be quite ingenious. Letting the universities judge on their own how to handle sexual assault allegations and then also allowing universities and colleges to render their own verdicts was a very good way to make people think twice about going too far and crossing the line into sexual harassment/assault territory (It certainly made me think twice). The penalties were not harsh, but certain. That was the beauty of that system, until militant feminists took it way too far. Obama's guidance was too onerous on the male students and encouraged false reporting (Thank God, I graduated before it went into effect and never got to experience this sort of madness firsthand). And the funniest thing here is that
the new system is not likely to make rich guys think twice about going after poor female students, since it is going to be much easier for them now to make such students out to be harlots and frauds who are just casting baseless apersions on men of good family and vast fortune. It is funny how Trump always takes care of the rich folk and leaves the rest to suffer...
16
It is very important that everyone's rights are upheld.
I hope that because of the publicity about rapes and harassment on campuses, that women and men who are being harassed will be prepared to document their situations, and start to feel empowered to document what happens to them, using cell phones to record conversations or date rape situations, when they start to happen. I believe it is possible to figure out ways to take control out of the hands of harassers. maybe someone will come up with an app or device that will make a difference. Harassment and rape has got to be a thing of the past. A solution has to be found and implemented.
2
The Obama guidance rules were issued to fill a gap left by law enforcement. Cases involving sexual harassment are among the least reported and least prosecuted by the police. There is little reason to even report to police unless the crime is severe and there is a mountain of evidence, because otherwise they won’t do anything. When police won’t act to investigate and prosecute these crimes, the reasoning was that colleges should attempt to take the burden onto themselves. Until law enforcement decides to clean up theirs act, I continue to support this approach and oppose what appears to be yet another of DeVos’s missteps.
6
@Mr. Adams
The truly sad truth is much of the response depends on where the school is located. Some police jurisdictions will defer to the school and campus police if a victim doesn't insist. If this happens often the victim does not receive appropriate medical attention in a timely manner or the ability to have evidence collected-- rape kit.
The only one that really wins is the university, who decides how to handle complaints. Now with DeVos' new plan they are less accountable than ever.
1
God forbid your child experiences the horror of a sexual assault, but if he or she does, advise going to local law enforcement and not student affairs. Rape is not a violation of the student honor system or the student code, it is a crime. If a student was stabbed by another student would the attacker be tried by a committee of faculty and administrators? And let’s be clear, the university has a clear stake in the outcome of any enquiry and it is not with the victim.
5
@Nicole Engelbert
"Rape is not a violation of the student honor system or the student code, it is a crime. "
Sigh.
You are wrong. It is both.
Schools are not "trying" these cases. Criminal prosecution is still an option.
"If a student was stabbed by another student would the attacker be tried by a committee of faculty and administrators?"
He wouldn't be *tried* by anyone but the courts. That word has real meaning, and your inability to distinguish criminal prosecution from a disciplinary proceeding is troubling. Let's be clear, that person would get kicked out of school, wouldn't he? Or would the school have to wait for the criminal proceedings to be finished?
That isn't a problem with an easy solution. In the same time you need get a good punishment for the authors, but don't convict a person that isn't guilty. You need to give a answer for the victims but to take care to not destruiting the life anybody that didn't do anything. In my opinion, nobody is guilty before that a correct trial, when all possibilities and proofs will be take in consideration. We saw a lot of situation when the emotions led at the wrong decisions. And some marks never go away no more. Like in Brazil (where the same problem is evem more proeminent), I hope that the Noth Americans get the right solution through new rules, education and new thoughts' of society.
1
Defining harassment as “unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, nonverbal, or physical conduct of a sexual nature” has got to be the worst of the many bad policies promoted by DeVos’ predecessor. How is anyone to know if a request is ”unwelcome” before it is made?
Omitted from the article is any discussion of the unfair position the accused is placed in by having their alleged trangressions subject to penalties by both universities and the criminal justice system. A student facing potential criminal charges cannot defend him/herself without the risk of any statements made to university authorities in the course of their investigation being used against them in a subsequent criminal proceeding, and universities, unlike courts, have no obligation to avoid inferring guilt from a defendant’s decision to exercise their right to remain silent. Worse, an accuser’s statements made in the course of a university investigation are are not made under oath and are therefore not subject to potential prosecution for perjury - the accuser can lie through their teeth at every opportunity and the accused has no legal recourse other than a civil action for slander, which is notoriously difficult to prove. At a minimum, any accusations should be required to be made via a sworn affidavit and fully subject to criminal prosecution for falsehood.
6
Mrs. DeVos is a very poor choice to hold the job she has. She has no idea about how to operate and must be taking advice from men around her, not just on this issue but on public schools in general. She, who is in charge of helping them, would like to put them out of business.
It is such a huge mistake to favor the people who are the alleged attackers and make it harder for the victims to seek and receive justice. It's difficult enough when you are young and sometimes foolish to know how to conduct yourself but if anyone is violated against their will (male or female) talking about it and reporting it takes great courage.
When this policy goes into effect, someone must keep track of what it does to the statistics of reporting and proving attacks.
2
@Jeanie LoVetri
You are right, innocent until proven guilty is a terrible idea. Why bother having any kind of proceeding to begin with? Just take the accuser's word and be done with it.
8
Shocked that so many of the comments are saying that the accused should have NO RIGHTS to defend themselves and are automatically guilty. Guess they haven't read multiple recent articles about woman who just went to JAIL for proven false accusation and then there was a multimillion dollar payout to a male student who was also falsely accused. All the rules are saying is that there has to be due process. Which is apparently too much to ask for.
6
Reading through these comments is so utterly disheartening. I wonder how many commenters have ever been assaulted or experienced the effects first hand. Bringing issues of assault to campus authorities or law enforcement is difficult enough and often re-traumatizing. I can't even begin to imagine cross-examination or meditation with an attacker.
I'm so confused by the touting of wrongly accused men with ruined lives. This has a very statistically low occurrence. The number of victims who stay silent because of shame, unhelpful law enforcement, and victim-blaming is far greater.
Universities are absolutely not equipped to handle criminal matters, but they should facilitate. Many young victims are likely too traumatized and scared to go to the police. I think a priorities should be providing victims with supportive environments, better educating children on consent, and taking more steps to believe victims, not giving the accused more rights.
2
Some of the changes sound reasonable, don't they? I mean due process is part of the American system. However it is no secret that predators are not only protected by other predators, smart Ib their preying where they know the rules and use them as a premeditated shield, but "due process" has been used to put the victim on trial.
This has been the way of the Republicans to make reasonable sounding claims but where in fact the details often hide the true meaning and goals.
DeVos has never done anything that doesn't benefit her. Her wealth in ample evidence. So the question is why is this so I important to her. Is it altruism for the predator over the prey? Doubtful... Altruism is a disease to people like her and Trump. Most likely it is costing her money. And money is the alter that she is willing to sacrifice you on.
1
There is no need to make a school more like a court. When sexual assault reaches the level outlined in the new regulations, it would probably be best to go directly to the police. However, it would be beneficial to have a university process for assault below that level, as outlined in the old guidelines. Individuals can threaten the safety and well-being of others without committing what would be regarded as a violation of law, yet that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t go unaddressed.
Ultimately, the goal of a university should be to get every student it admits a quality education. It’s hard to get a quality education when you feel harassed or threatened. Schools have long had the ability to punish students for breaking rules that are not law, such as academic honor codes, and it makes sense that they would be able to punish rule violations of a sexual harassment nature as well. The lower standard of evidence makes sense for the lower level of the offense. A lower punishment level also makes sense, such as required counseling or a curfew for perpetrators. Schools could then refer severe complaints to the police, which would require a higher standard of evidence in court as it could result in criminal repercussions and expulsion.
32
@Abigail When I went to college we had a student code of conduct and a process to apply it. Surely we still have that. If it is a criminal issue the courts and the police are appropriate, if not only guide lines are the answer, too much regulation especially at the federal level.
@Abigail Regrettably, there is a need to make a university into a court. As an example, the tenured faculty member who is accused of creating a "hostile environment" by a disgruntled student could be out of a job, and the furor poisoning his prospects for work in other universities. Another example, the young man or woman who denies "advances" by another student risks expulsion, forfeiting their investment in tuition and fees.
@Abigail
"Individuals can threaten the safety and well-being of others without committing what would be regarded as a violation of law,"
explain that Abigail. If you threaten someone that is against the law. If you endanger someone that is against the law.
what you mean is that person X didn't like what person Y said or did and you want to be able to punish someone based on no evidence just the whining of person X.
that violates due process which a right guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution to every person in this country.
1
Rape is a serious crime.
Allegations of rape should be reported to the police and handled by the judicial system.
Colleges are not equipped to determine guilt or innocence for serious crimes.
Those who want to use 'preponderance of evidence'
want to make it easier to find someone guilty.
Using "preponderance" means less guilty will be unpunished but that more innocent will be falsely found guilty.
Using "beyond reasonable doubt" means some rapists will go unpunished but less innocent people will be falsely found guilty.
Is rape that serious crime that we want to increase the risk that more innocent people will be found guilty.
What about murder or armed robbery.
6
This is not the answer. Arbitration is about smothering and intimidating victims, and the standard for what should be reported is already well past sexual assault and should go to police.
56
I can see how this might seem a step in the right direction, but it disregards the history of both DeVos and her family (remember Eric Prince of the Iraqi massacre by his mercenaries).
It is hard to know what her long term game is, apart from destroying public education in this country and making piles of money, but all these steps should be analyzed in the framework of the real aims both Trump and she have.
it is still Fascism, like it or not.
20
@Kathy What does this have to do with student discipline? Have you ever sat across from a student accused of a violation of a code of student conduct, that might also be a crime? I have. What would YOU do?
One step forward and, under this administration, three steps backwards for women's rights. It truly amazes me how Trump via DeVos can spin so artistically and deviously what should be incontestable. Can we not see the forest through the trees, women and men at large? The way I see it - in spite of not knowing the "details" - is that this will ultimately be a victory for perpetrators of assault and rape, and money hungry colleges. The victim will become the abuser. We know what kind of a man Mr. Trump is, do we not? And with each utterance and arbitrary action, this Secretary of Education is becoming all too transparent in her betrayal of womankind. The fact is she is just as greedy and corrupt as her leader.
11
Perhaps this will foster a comeback for women's colleges.
6
I’m no conservative, but these are common sense measures. The accused need due process from real legal provisions - not the kangaroo courts of public opinion/cowtowed University administrators. It could be your son or husband who is falsely accused next
54
@Joe Many women are assaulted and nothing is done. Only a few incidents are reported and fewer still successfully prosecuted.
2
Giving a male student accused of sexual misconduct the right to due process is considered a bad thing on campuses across America.This alone should tell you that something is seriously wrong with the system.
63
Let me tell you, as a victim’s parent, due process has been on steroids. Female victims are convinced to not press charges, are disbelieved (even with photographic proof!), or the school’s agree to penalize the offender but really they do nothing. Talk to me when your 20 year old daughter is beat up with witnesses and medical evidence of harm and the school’s reaction, and security was upset about this, is to not to suspend this student but to promise that they won’t be in the same classes...
8
@farkennel: What if he's innocent? Or what if he's guilty? Let's say you're the university's student disciplinary officer. What do you do?
2
From the NSRVC:
Campus Sexual Assault
20% - 25% of college women and 15% of college men are victims of forced sex during their time in college (b)
A 2002 study revealed that 63.3% of men at one university who self-reported acts qualifying as rape or attempted rape admitted to committing repeat rapes (h)
More than 90% of sexual assault victims on college campuses do not report the assault (b)
27% of college women have experienced some form of unwanted sexual contact (e)
Nearly two thirds of college students experience sexual harassment (p)
Any system has to balance the needs of offenders and victims.
Any system will get it wrong sometimes and someone will either get off when they've committed a crime or be punished undeservedly.
Given that 90%+ of perpetrators get off completely because the crime goes unreported and that 1/5 of college women are assaulted or raped, I'm comfortable with the Obama Administration's guidelines, which moved the needle a little more toward fairness to victims. Is there any proof that men are being falsely accused that is backed by data rather than anecdote? Ms. De Vos seems to be taking an action to re-establish that status quo rape culture on campus.
23
@doug repeating those numbers a million times does not make it true.
3
@doug If a crime goes unreported,how can you put a percentage of those who get away with it?You then ask for proof of men being falsely accused by data?You need to pick a side.
3
@doug The 2002 college predator “research” by Lisa has been throughly discredited.
The studies finding a 20-25% rate of sexual assault include, for example, having sex while intoxicated. They also ignore the subject’s reasons for not reporting, such as they feel solely or partially responsible, on the theory that the subjects don’t know they were raped.
I don’t know where you got the 90% of rapists go free number, but those are almost always based on the number of unproven allegations, plus an estimate of how many people don’t report having been raped.
And finally, campus sexual assault is very broadly defined, there is no requirement that the accused be given or told about the incriminating evidence, no opportunity to question - even indirectly - the accuser or witnesses, and often the accused is presumed guilty from the outset due to ‘believe the victim’ ideology.
At Families Advocating for Campus Equality we have had over a thousand students and families come to us over four years. Is that a high percentage? I don’t know. All I know is that we have a thousand devastated and traumatized students and families repeating the same stories over and over and over again: we were both drunk and had sex; he/she wanted more than a one-night stand but I said no; her/his boy/girlfriend found out we had sex; her Mormon/Muslim/Christian mother/parents found out she had sex; I broke up with her/him; etc.
The sad truth is most people won’t get it ‘til it happens to you or yours.
6
Devos is hurting the small steps Obama took to help victims of sexual assualt on campus where unless there is a video tape rape is easy to get away with.
Title IX is a joke because the universities pay off anyone with a NDA who is a victim of a crime before it goes to trial on campus. The whole point is to get all the evidence from the person filing complaint and keep the stats 0.
The issue is that for many sexual misconduct problems on campuses not assualt but rather harassment or abuse of power or university resources still have to use the Title IX. These crimes have no punishments with the police.
13
@EveofDestruction on the contrary, unless there is an exculpatory videotape (and very often even when there is), accused students are invariably railroaded by biased campus ’justice’ systems.
3
The use of the "preponderance of evidence" by unqualified and inexperience college officials acting as judge and jury is a farce.
54
Don't put Descartes before DeVos!
7
The accused already are protected through due process.
Good grief, Republicans. Even some of your own women are the worst misogyists out there.
Add this to Repblicans' ACHE to do away with abortion and birth control, and we see the Handmaid's Tale this country is becoming.
10
@Where are the babies, Trump There is little or no due process required on campus. Due process is what the government owes a citizen in order to infringe upon their rights. How much process is due depends on various factors, including the importance of the right being infringed upon. Clearly, we prioritize freedom over a college degree.
3
@Where are the babies, Trump
"preponderance of evidence" for a crime of such gravity, not administered by legal professionals, is not due process.
This is not a liberal or conservative issue. Especially because someday, it could be your son, grandson, etc.
5
@John
...or your daughter.
Are you men who are whining about the fact that your sons might be held accountable for their actions even considering the fact that this action might protect your daughters?
Do you even care about the people these rules are intended to help? Do they even exist to you?
I repeat: NO ONE IS BEING CONVICTED OF CRIMES. How can you people not understand this? People who so clearly aren't even college educated so upset about what's happening in uni...
1
Sexual assault is a crime, and college students are adults in the eyes of the law. Rarely happens, but Trump is right on this one and Obama was wrong.
26
As is common knowledge all college & univesity students are protesting and demanding a lack of transparency and institutional sexism. Thank you Betsy!!
5
Seems to be one of the very few things Trump administration is doing right.
19
"Unlike the Obama administration’s guidance documents, the Trump administration’s new rules will have the force of law and can go into force without an act of Congress, after a public comment period."
Honest question - why will the new rules have force of law where Obama's didn't?
7
The Administration is following the public comments requirements of the Administrative Procedures Act that I think are required for regulations to implement federal laws. The Obama administration avoided this formality and instead issued coercive “guidance” letters.
5
@N Yorker because the Obama guidance was in the form of a letter to colleagues suggesting that these should be implemented while the Trump rules will be in the form of regulations requiring a period of public comment before implementation.
3
@N Yorker They were 'enforced' by withholding subsidies from the federal government tot he universities. They had no legal standing.
4
Finally, some competent rulemaking coming out of this administration. The "Dear Colleague" guidance was abysmal and has ruined hundreds of innocent lives.
23
I actually agree to a limited extent, with some of their goals. I am quick to point out, the inept DeVoss and her sycophantic clutch are NOT remotely qualified to pursue their own policies. I loathe these people and their motives. To them, this is just another stick to poke in the eye of the left-wing and progressives.
Women have received the short shrift since humans began to settle in communities. As a male, I'm sincerely sympathetic to their plight of lifting the yoke of sexual and physical abuse and domination.
We are in the very early stages of changing human behaviors and deeply ingrained male tendencies. Our society needs to pursue these changes on a two-way street that protects to the best extent possible, the accuser and the accused.
3
Why do Trump and his fellow Republicans always take the side of the bad guys? Are they just being perverse? Or is it because they ARE the bad guys?
6
I see. In your estimation, every accused is one of the “bad guys.” So much for our system of innocent until proven guilty. I hope you never get accused of anything and are faced with a jury convinced of your guilt at the outset, because of your gender or some other immutable characteristic.
You would be hard pressed to find any well regarded legal scholar, especially any constitutional scholar, willing to enthusiastically support the Obama Administration’s “advice” to colleges with regard to tribunals convened to hear cases arising from Title IX claims.
9
As much as I detest Betsy DeVos and her crusade to instill religious teachings in schools - I'm strongly against compulsory theological education because it infringes upon our First Amendment rights - I cautiously commend her on this new policy. I say cautiously because, as with everything in the Trump administration, there's a good chance that the best ideas are executed in the worst possible way.
Sexual harassment, assault and rape are not to be tolerated at any level, let's be clear on that. But I also believe in due process and the rule of law, "innocent until proven guilty", and I felt that some of Obama's policies ignored that. Our colleges should be properly equipped to handle such incidents and have clear, concise guidelines on how to do so. Every educational institution needs well-trained counselors to help the victims move on.
So good on you, Betsy DeVos. Don't mess this up, for the sake of America's future.
20
It saddens me that people who have not lived through what's going on on college campuses regarding sexual assault and harassment judge Betsy DeVos' position so sharply. It's a very complicated issue. Obama's 2011 Dear Colleague Letter threatened schools to lose federal funding unless they act swiftly on behalf of the accused. This "guidance" was never issued for public comment. Schools scrambled to come up with their own "judicial" system, basing decisions on preponderance of evidence. Meaning, 50.01% opinion means guilt or innocence, decided in a system where no attorneys are allowed, no cross examination, an arbitrary system that has no consistency one school to another. Schools made it up as they went along. Biology and English professors, college coaches deciding innocence or guilt. I don't like Trump or Betsy DeVos on most things, but I believe this is one place she's right. Hand holding, glances, couple arguments, for example, have been seen as abusive, which cheapens true abuse. Individual Title IX departments and schools define what is abusive, redact evidence as they see fit, without supervision, want to make decisions that won't threaten their federal funding. Accusations at universities are leveled at men and women, hetero and homosexuals. This is a good cause run wild, and I'm happy to see it being tamed. Let's fight to keep true abusers off college campuses, and put in jail where they belong, not kicked out of one school to transfer to another, free to act again.
172
@robertssteal04 I could never understand why major institutions of higher learning, lead by highly educated scholars, were so quick to set up a whole alternative justice system for sexual crimes including university administrators without legal training, investigators with agendas and kangaroo courts. Among other things, this goofy system caused massive confusion regarding jurisdiction. A woman is raped...should she call the police, or go see some Title IX bureaucrat? Will the Title IX office call the police for the felony crime of rape, or have their own untrained investigators take a statement from only the victim and then hold a hearing? If the Title IX hearing expels the accused from school, is he/she still liable for police charges and a real court hearing?
@robertssteal04
"Let's fight to keep true abusers off college campuses, and put in jail where they belong, not kicked out of one school to transfer to another, free to act again." If only Catholic priests were held to this standard.
@robertssteal04 not all accused are guilty. Lots of he said, she said
These are very positive steps towards achieving justice. Our system is predicated on the presumption of innocence and equal protection under the law. There is no special system of justice for certain colleges or certain genders, only one system for us all.
23
This is all weird to me. Institutional justice systems (honor codes, school tribunals, etc.) are notoriously flawed. Question: why should women (mostly) be afforded a different level of protection if they are in college than if they are just working in a workplace. Somehow, I don't get it. If something is serious - go to the police, the real police. An adjudicatory system able to inflict real penalties should not bar direct confrontation with the accuser/plaintiff which is afforded to defendants in civil actions.
19
@Copse
Alleged victims do not go to the police because more often than not is it (s)he said/(s)he said with no evidence. The preponderance of evidence threshold is much easier to obtain. That way the alleged victim can get revenge, justice, satisfaction in the university instead of real justice in the courts.
3
Last line of the article: "The regulations require that schools approach all investigations under the presumption that the accused is innocent until proved guilty."
Nothing wrong with this.
31
Student judicial boards should have the authority to adjudicate violations of the university honor code regarding academics, dorm regulations, and non-criminal conduct.
But with respect to violations of criminal or civil rights law, they should be completely hands off regarding any felony, and tread very, very lightly on incidents considered even the most minor of criminal misdemeanors. (Things like simple verbal assault, possession of small amounts of marijuana, minor affray, or non-physical harassment.) Their only involvement should come in the aftermath of a conviction in a federal, state, or county court of law. Even then, they should be limited to academic punishment and have nothing to do with findings beyond the established conviction.
Cases involving the presentation of findings (except the aforementioned minor misdemeanors) should be limited to those charges considered infractions such as noise violations, illegal parking, underage drinking, littering, and the like, and only when occurring on campus.
Essentially, if the allowable punishment for any given offense can involve jail or prison time upon conviction through the established rules of criminal adjudication and presentment of evidence, keep it out of the student judicial system.
8
If you have a child in college, tell them to go to the police, not the university, if they are the victim of a crime. More to the point, tell them that if a Title IX complaint is made against them to immediately file a Title IX complaint against any accuser and against every administrator involved in the process. That should at least assist the school authorities in remembering that they are neither detectives nor judges. That is my free legal advice, though my old boss used to say that free legal advice is usually worth what you paid for it.
18
Why do I feel that these rules changes just help to take universities of the hook? The Ohio State University, the article left off the The, just went through hoops to keep Urban Meyers, even though he lied and deleted emails and text messages from his cell phone. Football over everything else.Then there is the situation with the wrestlers that were abused by the coach. We even have Congressman Jim Jordon involved. In all the listening to colleges and perpetrators, i don’t remember a mention of listening to victims.
2
@fduchene
Please tell us why Michigan State should be paying for Larry Nassars crimes at USA gymnastics facilities and events? USA GYMNASTICS should be paying those victims, many never stepped foot on MSU's campus and Nassar was not acting as an MSU employee.
I am supposed to act on hearsay? The accused has rights too.
1
@fduchene & @skramsv
Michigan State University knew about Larry Nassar for two decades prior to his arrest, trial and conviction for sexually assaulting USA Gymnasts. Several girls complained about him. It's the reason the president, Lou Annna Simon was fired.
A long time ago, not long after the Supreme Court began to recognize the constitutional rights of students in public educational institutions, I was employed as a young lawyer, three years out of law school, as the chief student disciplinary officer at a state university. That ought to tell you something. And because of my personality, and the fact that both of my parents had been educators, I was really good at it. Except . . . a crime is a crime, and a university disciplinary procedure is absolutely NOT the place to adjudicate a "crime." But what to do about the alleged perpetrator? Did I kick him or her out of school? And yes, there were female students who committed offenses that could have been defined as "crimes," usually theft-type offenses. Or did I wait -- interminably -- for the criminal justice system to run its course, preserving the basic standard of "innocent until proven guilty" or leaving a possible "criminal" on campus pending administraitve "due process"? You think this is easy? This is NOT easy. I went on to a career in intellectual property law; I was a lot happier.
4
When I was in college, in an act that would today be characterized as harassment (if not assault), I impulsively kissed a young woman at the door to her room, without even implicit permission. More than 40 years later, we remain happily married, and deliriously in love.
13
@Ralph ..and how would you feel if another man "impulsively" kissed your wife "without implicit permission"?
2
@Ralph
These cutsie little gotcha questions irritate me because they are straw men arguments.
I don't think you believe your own comment. Your proposition is only true if either a) we are advocating that every 'impulsive' physical advance constitutes assault (which we simply are not, and I believe you know this), or b) you believed your now-wife would not have wanted you to kiss her but you did it anyway, and you're proud of the fact that you kicked off a 40 year relationship by assaulting her and making her uncomfortable.
I don't believe that's true. I believe that you only kissed her because you reasonably, in good-faith believed she would be receptive. Therefore, you do not actually believe that the act would be characterized as harassment.
This is a long time coming and a step in the right direction to repeal directives that discriminated against the accused and made it virtually impossible to present a proper defense.
12
One of the very few issues the Trump Administration has gotten right. Turning back the heavy-handed Dear Colleague directives of the Obama Administration is a critical step to restoring fairness and sanity to a chillingly unjust adjudication process.
12
Yes, the accused should have all rights afforded by State and Federal law. Purported victims, and their parents who entrust the institution with the safety of their children should also be accorded all rights and protections stipulated by the laws.
Seen from the perspective of the general hostility towards women's rights of the Trump Administration, and particularly from Betsy DeVos, however, this action reeks to high heaven.
Never trust a billionaire with your rights, even if she is a she.
3
I strongly believe that the “clear and convincing evidence” standard is Constitutionally required in proceedings of this type when conducted by state colleges and universities. The Obama Administration’s mandate that schools use the lower “preponderance of the evidence” standard was flat-out wrong.
The Supreme Court has held that the intermediate “clear and convincing evidence” standard is required in government proceedings that implicate liberty interests but not criminal penalties such as incarceration. (Obviously the latter category requires the highest standard of proof, “beyond a reasonable doubt.”). This includes actions for termination of parental rights, deportation and civil commitment.
In a proceeding against a college student alleging sexual misconduct, where the possible sanctions include being expelled from school and the attendant stigma as well as forced separation from friends and faculty, sufficient liberty interests are implicated to require a higher standard than preponderance of the evidence.
Much as it galls me to admit it, DeVos is correct on this.
17
Colleges and universities handled sexual assault internally to protect their own reputations, to protect the reputations of both parties, and to keep the offenders from having to go to jail. If we could only trust the police, prosecutors, and judges to enforce the laws against sexual assault, maybe it would be better to send the offenders to jail and have to register as sexual offenders for life. Then they might take it more seriously. But that's a big "if."
1
“The truth is that the system established by the prior administration has failed too many students" Where are these "too many students"?
1
Of course, someone who commits sexual assault should be held accountable. It’s answering the question of whether or not someone has actually committed the act that is the issue here—and colleges are terrible at answering that question. The problem is the preponderance standard.
While the preponderance standard is used for most civil cases, the reality is that lawsuit and a college sexual assault hearing differ in several critical ways that make the preponderance standard grossly inappropriate for campus hearings.
First, those facing civil penalties in a court of law under the preponderance standard are afforded many fundamental protections that are typically absent for a campus hearing, including:
1.) Impartial judges
2.) Unbiased juries of one's peers
3.) Representation by counsel
4.) Mandatory discovery processes to ensure that all parties have access to relevant information
5.) Restrictions on unreliable evidence like hearsay or prior bad acts
6.) Sworn testimony under penalty of perjury
Those accused in campus hearings are generally denied these protections – but nevertheless are subject to life-changing sanctions based on nothing more than a feeling by campus court participants that they believe one person's story slightly more, which, after all, is exactly the analysis that the preponderance standard uses.
10
Sounds rather reasonable. Also, why not simply have the universities report the alleged crimes to police and if the accused is convicted in a court of law (where experts do justice), then the university takes action?
6
As a progressive, I've read about the absolute Orwellian abuse of students who have been accused of sexual assault. Their lives and futures are ruined, often on scant or conflicting evidence and without due process. First, schools should not be handling these serious felony-class allegations with student review boards or internal panels of administrators who have no training or business investigating these alleged crimes. It is a job for law enforcement and specifically a special victims unit of law enforcement that deals with rapes and other sexual crimes. Second, due process should be followed, not the arbitrary and capricious punishment handed out by these student and administrator led kangaroo courts.
14
One of the saddest features of American politics today is the extent to which "left-liberals" have shot themselves in the foot by showing lack of concern for free speech or due process when members of one of an "Oppressed" demographic are concerned along with what their "Privileged" (complements). Conservatives have been right enough about liberals to score points here. And this works because of the way "progressives," as liberals are best called, want to use law and state authority to reshape society according to their ideals. This virtually necessitates that people will be found guilty who could not have known they were. This is the logic of things like "micro-aggression," a crime whose existence depends on the hermeneutical creativity of judge or jury.
I have but one issue here: the continued use of the concept of "unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature." This could be an unexpected kiss. The new rules call for a level of violation and grievance that should help here. But the basic the idea that "I" have wronged "you" if I did (or said?) something you didn't like, maybe even realizing that afterwards, leaves murky what should be clear. Is unwelcome conduct something the other has not welcomed? Or only something they have explicitly refused? Is all that is not prohibited permitted, or all that is not prohibited permitted? Does silence mean no or yes?
In a world of crimes and victims, who can save us from fuzzy laws and fuzzy policing?
12
It’s astounding that the Government has to adopt a rule that the accused is presumed innocent. What wrong with this country that at least some schools apparently think it’s OK to presume guilt?
12
The idea that colleges or universities should handle any complaints of sexual assault is an assault on American values.
If somebody is the victim of a sexual assault, they need to go to the police. Sexual assault is not the job of schools and they are blatantly unequipped as well as unable to deal with it.
Any employee of a college or university who does not immediately call the police on being informed of a sexual assault should be charged as an accessory after the fact; tried, convicted if the evidence is there, and imprisoned.
It is a sad but obvious truth that the police are also often unable or unwilling to handle such situations, but it is their job, and only their job, not remotely the job of schools.
As part of freshman orientation, all students should be told that if they are victims of sexual assault, they should immediately call the police, and that no other course of action can possibly result in justice being done.
Dan Kravitz
6
The comments here conflate two very separate issues. Most forms of sexual harassment are not crimes. There is no crime to report to the police. Colleges are charged with ensuring an educational environment where students are safe and not subject to sexual harassment. The punishment for harassment can range from discipline to expulsion. Colleges have to have a system in place for adjudicating these issues. That system must be fair to the accused and the accuser. Demanding due process for the accused does not mean one is in favor of rape culture.
Makes sense that a uniform system of rules be put in place, following the proper procedures for administrative rulemaking (unlike the rather lawless Obama administration).
For actual rapes and assaults - these are crimes. Crimes should be handled by the criminal justice system. If a women is raped, she needs to go to law enforcement, where proper evidence gathering tools can be used.
I have no access to the raw data about reports of harassment. I suspect most cases are easy - constant and unwelcome sexual advances - give a couple warnings, then expel (with proper due process, of course). The hard cases, which seem to garner the most attention, involve alcohol and sex, long delays in reporting the incident, and no physical evidence. Pure he said - she said. The hard cases require good due process. How could anyone be against actual due process?
10
Call the police and let the police investigators who are trained manage these incidents. It is ridiculous to not treat this as a criminal matter.
7
I think we all agree that sexual assault is a horrible crime, and that schools don't necessarily have an interest in administering justice, since it's such bad press (leading to schools sweeping incidents under the rug, or convicting on a standard of evidence that wouldn't hold in court). Why not treat it as a crime and hand all sexual assault cases over to the police?
5
When I began teaching Sociology in 1982, the "Take Back the Night" marches were an every year event. When I retired, the "take Back the Night" marches were still as active, as if nothing had changed in 20 years.
Not a single college or university I taught at ever had a hold on sexual misconduct by "boys-in -men's-bodies" assaulting young women no longer with parental protections. I said then and I say it now; the police MUST be a part of the process to ensure due process. To leave each incident up to collegiate employees arms them to keep the problem silent and under covers.
When young aggressive boy-men assault, let them know there will be a legal process and jail a potential end result for assaults. As it stands, potential rapists have little to worry about when college administrators are in charge of justice. And rape is the result.
1
I found this well written and informative.
1
Making those accused of sexual crimes and the institutions that protect them, great again. Victims not so much. The Trump administration does not like victims or their right to justice.
Allowing the accused and accuser to cross-examine each other will expose the victim to further sexual harassment - how does that make for a safer learning environment. Additionally, mediation has historically been used to get the oppressed to shut up.
We already know sexual harassment and assault are vastly underreported on college campuses - this will make that problem far worse!
56
@Sam of all the policies advocated by ’victim’s’ rights advocates, the claim that cross-examination is ”further sexual harassment” is the most ludicrous. The value of cross-exam has been recognised by legal systems going back to biblical times, and is explicitly enshrined in the US Constitution. I was once the victim of a violent attempted robbery. I testified against my assailant and was cross-examined by his attorney. It wasn’t the least bit traumatic, but it would have been if I was lying.
4
@Sam So we should just believe the accuser and go straight to sentencing?
6
@Sam No, we don't know that harassment and assault are vastly underreported. That's a position some maintain. Then there's the matter of definitions.............
1
Definitely a step in the right direction. But more needs to be done to protect the rights of the accused.
74
@W Smith better yet, no college/university should have the right to adjudicate allegations of such gravity, and all past "findings" of such things should be declared null and void.
6
@W Smith
How about the right to remain silent? I tell every college bound kid I meet to call the cops, not the campus police, when they are assaulted.
10
It’s clear that most colleges aren’t equipped to deal with these allegations competently. In the majority of cases it seems allowing the formal court system to deal with allegations would serve all parties better
90
@Mike
Many years ago, I sat with University personnel to determine how to reduce sexual abuse in college. Some felt they only had a duty to educate, not intervene.
I argued in loco parentis made them all accountable, and thus they had to report it to the local authorities, not some cover up committee. Some one needs to sue this up to the SCOTUS for us to finally agree on anything?
I'm sure that our police and judicial system want to get involved with every he-said/she-said complaint, most of which while demeaning to the victim probably do not rise to the level of criminal action. Clearly student run adjudication often fails, but full bore police involvement is probably not the best answer either.
1
I’m a liberal and I loath Betsy DeVos more than anything. Though I try to look at new policies unbiased.
And reading more about these changes on a few sites I wonder if we had previously overstepped our bounds. I see other headlines of “Loosening Rules for Alleged Rapists” rather than “Protecting the Rights of the Accused.”
The guilty are terrible people and should be punished, but it seems in many of these cases in the news the accused have been burned at the stake by the town even before any trial. Where is their due process?
I also wonder about double jeopardy in a loose sense. Why are schools investigating these matters? They are not equipped, nor should they be, to have a full legal apparatus. These crimes and investigations should be handled by the police and courts.
170
@M.
Just as with the Catholic Church, these offenses belong before local authorities, not cover up committees. I'm certain we will learn many a victim has been investigated by the college before they turn to examine the accused, just like the Church's accusers were.
4
Well said
Why shouldn't the philosophy and principle of " due process " prevail on campus? Why should college campuses be the purview of " show trials " and forced sessions of " self criticism "?
58
I can't stand Betsy DeVos and disagree with almost everything she does. That said, I think there is a question of fairness in the current practice. In two cases I have seen the names of student accused of harassment released and published in local papers. Later these students were found to be innocent, however, their reputations were permanently damaged. I don't think Universities should be in the business of adjudicating criminal complaints. That's the job of police and the courts. Universities are educational institutions not law enforcement. If a crime was committed the University should report it. If it is inappropriate workplace behavior or a professor exploiting a student, that should follow campus discipline procedures as well.
114
Hopefully this policy will be implemented in a thoughtful and constructive manner, but I am at least encouraged by the roll back of the Obama Administration's policies. I am a firm believer in the concepts of the presumption of innocence and due process. Those concepts should not be limited to formal criminal proceedings, but should also apply to adminstrative proceedings that could result in a very consequential determination that a person engaged in sexual misconduct.
74
Why are accused students given special protection? Is DeVos enacting similar rules for others accused of crimes?
As well, these alleged crimes should be reported to the local police. It's clear that the school system is not equipped - or interested - in handling it.
15
They are not being given special protections. They are being afforded something like due process. A few examples have been reported in which the accused was given little or no opportunity to defend. I imagine ‘revenge’ complaints are very uncommon and suspect complaints arising from misunderstandings to be uncommon as well. But, as in our justice system, the accused should be able to defend himself.
18
@Sara G. By “special protection,” do you mean the Constitutional guarantees of liberty acknowledged to belong to every person in the United States, including non-citizens? As you correctly state, schools are neither investigative nor judicial bodies equipped or prepared to deal with allegations or rape or other unwelcome sexual advances. The Obama-era rules stripped accused students of their Constitutional rights, while doing nothing additional to protect victims. If a crime has been committed, it should be handled by the police and the courts. Even the mess that was the Duke Lacrosse fiasco was eventually sorted out, more or less, but only after the school’s foolish participation had cost it hundreds of millions of dollars. Yes, victims should be believed, but that does not mean that the accused should be stripped of the rights all Americans enjoy outside a college campus environment.
9
@Sara G.
Where does it state that accused students are being given any sort of "special protection?"
The only "protections" they're being given by the proposed regulations are the same protections afforded to every person accused of a crime, i.e. a presumption of innocence unless proven guilty within a fair legal proceeding.
The Obama admin guidelines didn't afford the accused people due process or a fair trial, and it wrongfully lowered the bar of evidence required to be found guilty from "clear and convincing evidence" down to "preponderance of evidence." That low threshhold is what is patently unfair, denying the rights of an accused person.
9
Colleges and universities have way too much power and not enough responsibility "in loco parentis." There needs to be a guideline wherein all accusations that meet a standard of criminal conduct be referred to the district attorney.
The problem with that is that relatively little of what is being described as sexual misconduct meets that standard. And that indicates a deeper underlying issue, which is to me a severe inability that most people, particularly young ones, have when it comes to arrange for mutually acceptable sex, and for what to do with regrets.
Where there is alcohol, there is suppression of shame. Where there is suppression of shame, there will be regrets. Where there is alcohol, there is also suppression of sound judgment. This is all set in the context of near total lack of ability to have an honest conversation about sex: what is appropriate, mutually acceptable, mutually desirable.
28
@Eric Francis Coppolino Alcohol does not simply suppress shame and judgement. It can incapicitate fully. That is why tje law states that it’s rape if the victim was intoxicated.
1
@Mama The law considers it rape if the victim was incapacitated — not intoxicated. It is a huge difference and campus adjudicators’ inability to understand that distinction is part of the problem.
5
@CP Garrett
Intoxication is incapacitation. This is why an intoxicated patient cannot consent to surgery. This is why you can’t sign legal papers if intoxicated. Why is this concept understood in every regard except sexual behavior.
The old adage apparently still rings true for some Neanderthals, you have to wine and dine her to loosen her up.
This seems totally fair to me. Sexual assault and sexual misconduct are crimes, and should be reported to the police. Lessening the liability of schools and treating it more like the crime it is will encourage schools to not cover up the incidents and will encourage students to go to the police if they need to. Additionally, as almost every person with authority is currently responsible for reporting incidents to the school, students cannot avoid the full process, which can be really intimidating.
26
“The new rules would define sexual harassment to mean “unwelcome conduct on the basis of sex that is so severe, pervasive and objectively offensive that it denies a person access to the school’s education program or activity.’”
“In its guidance, the Obama administration defined the act more broadly as “unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature,” that includes “unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, nonverbal, or physical conduct of a sexual nature.’”
I like Obama and don’t much like Trump but at least DeVos plans to go through notice and comment rulemaking. If you think, for example, that repeated sexual advances that are clearly unwelcome should be included in the definition then you will have an opportunity to say so to the government before the rule is adopted.
In democratic self-government there is a process due when laws and rules are made just as there is a process due when controversies are adjudicated. Before laws are enacted or rules are adopted the public must have a timely opportunity to study the proposal and comment to the lawmakers or rulemakers before enactment or adoption. People should have had the opportunity to point out to the Obama administration that its proposed definition was astonishingly vague and overbroad. There should have been lengthy open hearings in Congress on the Republican tax bill. This is bedrock.
25
Higher Education institutions are a mess when handling sexual assault and rape cases. They do not want to acknowledge statistics nor the trauma associated to these cases. There should be in place procedures in cooperation with Police rather than the college handling it by themselves. But certain universities do not want the "real stats" of assaults on campus known. This pressure of keeping confidential records of certain incidents prevents true data to be collected or shown on any reports. DeVos has no clue as to the psychological trauma endured by victims nor how morals have diminished among people, for instance all females "deserve" what they get if they place themselves in a "vulnerable" position, like passed out on the floor. The morality issue is never touched. Campuses have not tried to educate students in dorms nor at frat houses. There are many risk factors which have been heightened by social media platforms. There are no rules on digital communication nor education on social media or digital communication at campuses today. DeVos should resign for trying to relax rules that today barely acknowledge the problem, more should be done.
1
For those who are aghast at the new standards. Then I suggest we change the due process required by law enforcement and our judicial system to match the standard that universities have had to adhere to since 2012. Lets indict and convict all accused criminals based on a preponderance of evidence. Allow them to have no lawyer and to be tried in front of a team of school administrators instead of judges, prosecutors. Problem solved.
63
@John
Can we apply that standard to Donald J Trump? If so, we could have him behind bars by the end of next week.
2
The accused must have due process.
But the guilty must be severely punished.
23
@Celeste
I don’t think anyone disagrees with your statement of principle, but the point here is that schools are completely incapable of administering either due process or punishment. Moreover, the administration of due process and punishment must follow those guidelines laid down by society at large, not those of some random dean of student affairs or some dude in HR who was a pre-law major (as useless and unenlightening a pursuit as can possibly be imagined).
1
Following Due Process and protecting the rights of everyone including the accused is not controversial.
53
@zepblackstar Unfortunately, it is extremely controversial. Would that this were not the case, but it most definitely has been.
2
"Men’s rights groups have said the accused have had little recourse."
Yes, and lots of other people have said so too. Particularly among the dwindling segment of society that still finds civil rights important.
Of course, "men's rights groups" is often used as a proxy term for "far right", and its use in this context suggests that only right-wingers would be concerned about due process for the accused in campus sexual harassment cases.
43
I agree that the police should know about any harassment. But, once one files a complaint with the police, the university should take action to expel the person. I am at a residence, right now, not affiliated with school, and I have filed multiple sexual harassment complaints, and none of this staff will take any action against the people. They said they can not do anything until I file a police report, I do, and they still do not do anything. So, that should be addressed.
4
Don't rely on the cops or the institution for justice. It won't happen.
Lawyer up, no-win no-fee. In the civil courts, sue the perp and the university for the tort of criminal trespass, dereliction of duty etc.
2
@GoodAcumen
I do not dispute your claims, and I am sorry for any trouble you have had, but are you actually asserting that other students should be expelled based on nothing more than your bare accusation? If you are having trouble with the legal system, hire a lawyer.
5
Disagree. If punitive action is taken merely on the basis of a complaint we all- men and women alike- become vulnerable.
And really, if my car is stolen repeatedly, it is not my fault. But I might consider measures to prevent further theft.
And if you’ve filed multiple complaints, maybe your idea of what constitutes harassment differs from that of the police and your school.
7
My political views are very liberal, and I disagree with almost everything that DeVos does. However, I agree that the rules for how college handle sexual misconduct cases desperately need clarification and revision.
I have taught at 10 colleges (of varying types) in 4 states, so I am well aware that an unhealthy culture of sexual misconduct pervades most campuses. Preventing misconduct needs to be the priority, to protect the safety of all students.
But I have also seen the current processes of campus-run "investigations," "trials," and "disciplinary sanctions" often fail miserably. These failures needlessly destroy the lives of both victims and alleged perpetrators, as well as opening colleges to lawsuits (rather than protecting them, as intended).
In fact, college administrations are most often more concerned with doing whatever protects them from litigation rather than serving justice fairly. They often do whatever they can to sweep situations under the rug, rather than having to deal with them, which isn't fair to the victims. Conversely, when they do deal with situations, they often do whatever they can to simply get rid of the alleged perpetrator (or a whistleblower) without giving them due process, just to appear tough; they'd rather pay off an unfair dismissal than face litigation (and bad publicity) for mishandling a rape.
This sensitive issue deserves thoughtful discussion, not mere knee-jerk emotional reaction. I believe that DeVos is on the right track.
50
A rape is not something that a Title IX officer convinces you of after 13 months (as in the Yale basketball case where it took 13 months after the act to state that it was forced). It is something reported to the police, where there is a rape kit, where there is evidence, and where the accused has as many rights as the accuser. It also involves the accuser's name being public. It is well past the time where women can file false charges screened by confidentiality clauses. If you want a rape charge, it is done through the cops, and your name as the accuser is made public. That is only fair. BOTH sides should have a fair situation. The Obama rules have ruined the lives and careers of hundreds of innocent men.
33
@GeorgePTyrebyter
And you propose to fix it by ruining the lives of those who have been raped.
Do you want all accusers outed or just those who's accounts justify arrest of the alleged perpetrator? Do you just want female accusers outed or everyone including men and child rape victims? Do you propose to use the photo taken during the evidentiary exam? Probably not, that might reveal information that makes the rapist look like he/she did it.
Why do you want those arrested for rape treated differently from those arrested for other crimes?
You see you gave yourself away in one sentence,
"It is well past the time where women can file false charges screened by confidentiality clauses."
Without qualifying this statement you accused all women who press charges of rape as filing false charges.
Anyone can walk into a police station and make a statement accusing someone of a crime. No one is arrested until a police investigation is conducted and and sufficient evidence is found to justify an arrest.
If a rape victim decides to report it should be to off campus police. Campus police and universities/colleges are more likely to protect the perpetrators. They do this because they are required to report statistics of campus violence including rape. On campus crime stats are publicly disclosed to prospective students and their parents.
1
@GeorgePTyrebyter
"The Obama rules have ruined the lives and careers of hundreds of innocent men. "
I'd love to see a citation for this claim.
I'd also like for you to answer why you don't seem to care that men have harmed thousands and thousands of women and girls by raping them.
(PS- because you seem very, very confused-- men are not "charged" by universities. I hope this resolves your concerns.)
Sorry--but this is a good thing. Sexual crimes must be reported to and handled by the legal justice system. Schools have no business investigating crimes.
If the police and courts are insensitive to women seeking justice, then rectify that. Provide victim advocates who can assist women--and men--throughout every stage of dealing with sexual crimes perpetrated upon them.
But do not forget the foundation of our justice system--innocent until proven guilty. Do some guilty parties thereby escape justice? Yes, the world is not perfect. But we must strive endlessly to reduce the possibilities for miscarriage of justice. Campus committees exponentially increase them.
50
For the first time, I find myself agreeing with Ms. DeVos. And, the hate=filled comments about this completely sane set of regulations should disturb any person who values the constitution, freedom of speech, due process and the ideal of innocent until proven guilty.
65
"The rules also maintain Ms. DeVos’ year-old policy of using mediation to reach informal resolutions, and would add the ability for victims and their accused perpetrators to request evidence from each other and to cross-examine each other."
This idea alone, as the Obama Administration recognized, is a testament to their ignorance of the reality of sexual assault.
15
@beberg
I absolutely agree! No survivor of sexual assault is going to want to sit down and be cross examined by the man who raped her.
1
This sounds legit to me - this doesn’t ignore victims rights, but makes sure that government overreach doesn’t infringe on the accused tights either.
15
Tell me again how putting women in positions of power automatically means that they will work to keep women safe from sexual harassment and ensure that their molesters will be brought to justice. Explain to me how Betsy DeVos, by virtue of her gender, is a better defender of women’s rights than Al Franken was when he was in the Senate. Tell me how Betsy DeVos is a role model your daughters can look up to so that they, too, can grow up to become someone who takes away the rights of other women once they accumulate power and influence. Continue to say that any woman in a position of power is a triumph for feminism, regardless of how they wield their power, and that, deep down, all women are sisters with a common enemy in the patriarchy who have an unshakable bond with one another that cuts across political or cultural lines.
Can we please stop this nonsense and instead focus on giving support to anyone, man or woman, who will take rape, harassment and discrimination seriously, defend reproductive rights, and fight for equal pay - instead of assuming that supporting women in power just because they’re women is actually good for women in general?
7
@James Jacobs
Women have equal pay. Wage gap is a myth. Sorry.
7
@Ryan Well, the wage gap is not a myth, the numbers reported are true. However, the reason the wage gap exists is not sexism or discrimination as is usually implied. The reason is that women tend to work fewer hours (even if paid full time) and choose occupations that tend to pay less and of course giving birth to babies has a significant influence on the gap as well.
2
@Ryan
Wow! What a convincing explanation! So glad I had a big smart man to clear it up for me!
Interesting how many of DeVos' detractors on this issue are the first ones to "ban the box" for actual convictions under much stronger evidentiary standards. Or they're for "criminal justice reform" but want to condemn the livelihoods and futures of young people because most of them are white-skinned men.
21
John, it was actually alleged that the previous Obama rules were applied much forcefully onto minority students who tend be less connected and less able to defend themselves.
1
It's hard to imagine any policy emanating from a Betsy DeVos led Dept. of Ed. as having to do with anything but money. And voila, the new policy would reduce schools' liability in such matters. Much is yet to be learned, although we do know DeVos is part of the monied swamp that despises every dollar it can't keep under any circumstance. That will be my takeaway until proven otherwise.
11
What is truly harrowing is that these new rules are necessary in the first place. From the information in the article, as of right now, it is possible for students to be accused of "unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature", denied access to evidence from investigations, prohibited from requesting evidence from the accuser, barred from cross-examining witnesses, deprived of legal representation, placed before an untrained, unqualified panel of school officials and have their entire futures demolished based on a 50.01% chance that the allegations are true.
34
@Jason
Your observations are correct. I'm a college professor, and I've seen it happen at numerous places where I've taught. Lives and futures destroyed by a well-intentioned but fundamentally-flawed system.
22
I don’t understand. How does this unelected thing have this kind of power? Doesn’t Congress and the States make law? How would anything it says be applicable on any campus? Can’t colleges and universities collectively ignore this? Assume it’s a matter of being denied federal funding to whatever extent any one institution receives it. Sickening.
So eclipse ALL of this: if you are a victim get a lawyer, file a police report and let’s see these cases brought to a court of law. Surely there are legal aid resources and lawyers of conscience that will waive fees. We must not let this unfettered menace employed by Individual-1 go unchallenged.
3
@Matthew
Yes, Congress made a law, called Title IX. But the Executive Branch is charged/empowered to implement and enforce the laws that Congress passes. (That's basic high school Social Studies.)
The Executive Branch (presidents, governors, etc.) usually implement the laws by creating agencies/depts that craft the rules/procedures/policies necessary to implement the law. Most often, the president or governor appoints someone to head the agency, who then gets the power to guide the agency in designing the rules/procedures. Trump chose DeVos to lead the Dept of Education (federal); I don't know who heads the dept at the state level in NJ.
Usually the agency is also empowered to enforce the law. They can do this in a number of ways, such as levying fines against a college (or school district) who doesn't follow the rules, or deny giving them funding. Other agencies (such as Civil Rights agencies) are empowered to initiate lawsuits on behalf of a person who alleges that a company/landlord hasn't followed the law.
A person who believes that they have been wronged also has the right to file a lawsuit on their own; but the whole point is that agencies are there to represent and/or protect a victim so that they don't have to buy their own lawyer.
Got it? Nothing nefarious here. (And I'm NOT a Trump or DeVos supporter/apologist.)
6
Crimes should be tried in an unbiased court of law....not by some easily manipulated college tribunal
16
The comments in this paper give me whiplash. When the NYT ran a story about Betsy DeVos rescinding the Obama guidelines, there was an outcry. When the NYT ran a story about the travesty of justice that ruined a young man's life and career because of the Obama guidelines, there was an outcry. We've become so polarized that all we do is look at the name attached to the action (Obama good, DeVos bad) to decide its merits. Read the tragic story of Keith Mumphery and see if you really disagree with DeVos that the Obama policy "lacked basic elements of fairness." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/sports/keith-mumphery-michigan-state....
28
As much as I despise DeVos and her theocratic views, this is a correction long time overdue. The previous rules resulted in kangaroo courts where the accused had no rights. They burdened the already burdened academic institutions with judiciary functions contrary to their very nature. I know first hand of several shocking instances of false accusations. In one a mentally unhinged female graduate student “fell in love” with her married professor and harassed him by email. When he rebuffed her, she complained. Fortunately he managed to demonstrate his innocence but his career was very nearly ruined. I’m sure there are many more such example. Sexual harassment is a crime. If you are being harassed, go to the police and submit to the proper judicial process. Leave the universities out of it.
34
In the kangaroo court of a university or college, there are no winners because the focus is on protecting the reputation of the institution. A criminal trial may also not bring justice to the victim.
A civil trial is often much better for the victim than a criminal trial where the police and prosecutors fail to do a good job, the alleged perp is often acquitted, and the victim too often humiliated in open court.
Read the linked article below, which is open access, and you'll understand why a civil trial often makes sense. It starts by describing a failed criminal trial and the subsequent civil case that gave the plaintiff some measure of redress and justice.
Bublick, Ellen M., Tort Suits Filed by Rape and Sexual Assault Victims in Civil Courts: Lessons for Courts, Classrooms and Constituencies (February 2006). Arizona Legal Studies Discussion Paper No. 06-16. https://ssrn.com/abstract=883671
7
One can only hope her daughters have long since graduated. Brock Turner, anyone?
2
@Former New Yorker, this issue cuts both ways and parents have both sons and daughters (and both are hopefully brought up to respect each other; and to engage in mutually consensual relationships).
Brock Turner was properly prosecuted in the criminal justice system and convicted. The changes initiated by Ms. DeVos do not prevent future criminal prosecutions of similar behavior.
There have been abuses in the other direction, for example, Duke Lacrosse or the UVA fraternity/Rolling Stone magazine story.
22
@GRH Do not jump from the particular to the universal. Two highly publicized cases that were "faked" do not add up to all accusations being suspect. There are thousands of real rapes that go unpunished. I am appalled at the huge number of comments here that are in support of the accused over the accuser. It seems as though the comment writers all have contempt for women. Really. But, all rape and debilitating sexual harassment should be reported to police. Unfortunately, often police do not deal with the issue in a timely or compassionate manner.
1
The Rich and Powerful Betsy Devos is using the power of the people's government to protect the Rich and Powerful. Why am I not surprised?
3
Come on, guys. Give Betsy a break. So she has spent 12 minutes inside a public school classroom. So college graduates have booed and turned their backs on her commencement speeches. So, as with Trump's statement about the attractiveness of Fiorino' s face, I say to you, look at Betsy's face. Would that invite sexual harassment?
Sorry to have sunk to Trump's level of discourse, but when in Rome...
3
What concerns me most is that the "Secretary of Education" is ignorant/and-or ignores all of the former federal rules to educate all levels of our entire populations of students, of all needs: the future of the US. All of our children. Secondly, as publicly available information allows: DeVosse is a billionaire heiress and libertarian, married to an equally libertarian heir and billionaire. DeVoss, and the manner in which she spends US tax money, illustrates a firmly idiosyncratic commitment to small government, and to long-term profit of the private sector (for-profit-ed on all levels). And policy, as vehicle for the US economy. This is libertarian ideology, in a relentless road to educating the future citizens of the USA. So what is her data for her educational policies?? None. I very seriously, as a woman, ask her: Madame; have you been assaulted? Have you been dismissed and marginalized: at school, in business, at home? How dare you not protect the children of the united States and our American students? I call you out. You are NOT an advocate for our children. OR other women. HOW DARE YOU? You do not deserve to serve US. In our government.
1
What does any of your comment have to do with the issue addressed in this article? The Obama Administration issued guidelines for college Title IX tribunals that completely ignored the rights of the accused. Constitutional scholars, criminal defense attorneys, lovers of common sense, tribunal defendants, and outraged parents of tribunal defendants pointed out the kangaroo court nature of these tribunals. Ms. DeVos has now acted to ensure that college tribunal defendants may exercise their due process rights. You have a problem with that?
7
It’s hard to disagree with the last sentence of the article.
5
De Voss is a disgrace to any notion of higher learning. Speaking thereof, perhaps it is time to restore colleges and universities to their intended function: higher learning.
Dissolve fraternities or move them off-campus and dethrone the entitled demi-gods, athletes and their coaches, and establish universally applicable rules of conduct for both sexes.
4
Bolster?
Seriously.
It is so deep how can anyone breathe?
2
Those who complain that the DeVos approach to harassment investigations seems aimed at protecting the wrongdoers to the detriment of those genuinely abused might consider this question:
What kind of investigation and official treatment would you demand if, however unlikely, you were falsely accused?
Doug Giebel, Big Sandy, Montana
192
@Doug Giebel
this is the thing i soooo dislike. False reports about rape are extremely rare. false reports about fires are extremely common. So common that all insurance companies have their own investigators. AND YET: when we talk about fire safety no one ever brings up the very common arsonists. But you cant do ANYTHING about the rape epidemic in this world without this nonsense about the falsely accused. If the legally system can deal with arsonists without EVERY SINGLE conversation about fire safety being take up with that nonsense why is it that it is so hard to have any conversation about the rape epidemic without this mess about false accusations. Its almost as if this is just a red herring to stop *ANY* and all attempts to address the rape crisis.
3
@MP
I don't know how rare are "false reports about rape." They are far fewer than legitimate complaints, just as are false reports of harassment. However, false claims are made.
Is it your view that they are unimportant? Should they be ignored? Is it reasonably possible to deal fairly with legitimate claims of rape and harassment and also deal fairly with false charges?
Again, it seems appropriate to ask how you would feel, how you would want to be dealt with, if you were falsely accused of wrongdoing.
We know our prisons hold prisoners who are innocent but have been judged to be guilty. Some spend years before being freed. We don't know how many innocent people have been executed in recent years, but because there may be a small number, are their lives insignificant just because they are few?
It does not diminish the importance of a "rape epidemic" to acknowledge the fact that false allegations are made for various reasons, and that such allegations exist -- to be addressed with fairness, just as those who have suffered actual injury must be treated fairly.
You may never be falsely charged. But what if you were?
Doug Giebel, Big Sandy, Montana
2
@Doug Giebel And how would you feel if your daughter was living in the same dorm as an accused rapist awaiting trial, or even charges being filed? Too many here fail to recognize the unique circumstances of university life.
1
A better approach would be to prevent schools from operating kangaroo courts at all. If a crime is committed on campus, it should be handled by real police officers, prosecutors, and courts, not by university employees who’s real job is to make the university look good.
210
@Rick Daley Amen to this. Victims are likely to fare better in the courts than on campus, where they are often treated as if they were the perpetrators.
4
@Rick Daley A university disciplinary proceeding does not preclude a criminal prosecution. These proceedings are different, but parallel tracks.
3
@Rick Daley And what would you do in the meantime, while someone is awaiting trial? Would you feel comfortable if your daughter lived in the same dorm as an accused rapist?
Is it not a principle of American jurisprudence that it is better for ten guilty to go free than for one innocent to be wrongly convicted? This change, at least as far as we know so far, simply puts this into regulations.
34
@mikecody Yes, It is part of American freedom to protect the innocent at the cost of letting a few guilty get by... But seemingly everything else the Trump administration does takes the opposite approach.
Trump trots out on the stage, and politicizes the suffering of, families of the victims of exceptionally rare crime committed by immigrants as support for restricting immigration for millions of innocent and law-abiding people.
He bans the legal admission of countless other innocent people from certain countries because a tiny fraction of people from those countries are terrorists.
And so on....
3
@mikecody "ten guilty to go free" well that covers several Trump administration members right there.
@Celeste So, one can use this as a reason for another Trump rant or one can say that this policy, at least, is in keeping with the principles of American justice.
I have worked with students expelled from state universities on the preponderance-of-evidence standard. In effect a student can be forced into a trial, without counsel, with a dean acting as prosecution, and students facility and staff acting as an ad hoc jury. The university may proceed in spite of pending criminal charges, and while testimony may not be forced failure to reply to a claim of misconduct, allows the "jury" to draw whatever conclusion it deems proper from the students failure to reply. This has the effect of forcing the student to wave her 5th amendment rights if she chooses to defend her self. If a defense is made, the standard of proof is the same as a speeding ticket. Thus a student may be found not guilty in a criminal court but still expelled.
In one case a member of the jury asked a police officer what the student did when the officer approached him. When the officer answered "he stopped raised his hands and turned around" The juror added "Oh, so that implies he knew he was guilty".
The argument for the lower standard of proof is, expulsion is not as serious as a criminal charge, but I disagree. Students expelled from a university have a very difficult time gaining admission to other schools. As a Michigander, I have first hand knowledge of Ms. DeVos and her views on education, with little good to say about them. In this case I have to agree with her, universities are not qualified to act in these cases.
234
Betsy DeVos makes me sick. There are allegations of serious sexual misconduct that has gone on at some big schools and that the higher ups were, if not complicit, they sure didn't do a whole heck of a lot to help the victims. Yes, everyone without exception deserves due process. But let's face it, for way too long the decks have been stacked in favor of those who do and then perpetuate the crime. You can claim oh my universities are learning centers not judicial centers, but the fact is, DeVos is nothing but a lackey for special money interests.
79
@GMT
Especially her own "special money" interests.
Education's version of Sheriff Joe!!
25
@cbre
Education's version of Atticus Finch, actually. It always takes courage to stand up for justice in the face of the mob.
12
Are you kidding me!!
4
Back to the future. This is ALL about blaming Women, for being raped. What was she wearing? What was she doing THERE, after dark ? Was she a Virgin ? Did she fight back, Enough ??? She LIES.
Don't tolerate this misogynistic, hateful "stuff ". VOTE in November, VOTE straight Democratic. It's the only way to save ourselves. Seriously.
92
@Phyliss Dalmatian If the only way to "save" the Democrats is by sacrificing the rights of millions of young men then it is far too high a price to pay.
1
@Steve W
What about the rights of women? Or are women not on your radar? Are women expendable in your world?
1
Rapists! Muggers! Molesters! Gropers! Grabbers! Enroll in college and, under the protection of Betsy DeVos, Donald Trump’s Secretary of “Education,” ply your talents! It will now be your word against hers and the college will defend you.
Make America Great Again! Right, Betsy? And what about the suicidal impulses of survivors? Nothing for them, right? And college coaches looking the other way as students are abused, right under their noses (I’m looking at you, James Jordan, R-Ohio and Ohio State).
We saw Urban Meyer get a wink-wink good ole boy three-game suspension after he “mis-remembered” one of his assistant coaches beating up his wife. The A-list college football program couldn’t be allowed to be derailed by such an annoying thing as domestic abuse.
But the sexual predators will now have carte blanche to cruise the campuses in search of “fun.” Was this your idea? Or Donald Trump’s?
29
I have personally seen the tears of a male student falsely accused and whose life was completely destroyed. I am sorry, but Ms. De Vos has this one right. A college dean cannot be a judge. Pretty simple. Really.
11
Thank you. Very cogent and accurate. I'm so mad I could spit.
1
@Soxared, '04, '07, '13 You really need the surprisingly long list of falsely accused men repeated to you again?
No sane person condones rape or sexual assault (as defined by the supreme court) but in this messy world it has proven many times that a non-trivial percentage of accusers lie for myriad of reasons. If accusers know they are believed on their word then that percentage will increase, it is human nature.
Therefore, how do you weed out these false accusers from the true victims? If you want to minimize the damage by always believing the accuser then inevitably you will punish innocents. Something as a society so far we wanted to avoid. When the justice system punishes an innocent, it is us who carry the responsibility for this crime.
6
color me shocked.
5
Rape culture gets another GOP boost. GOP in winning the War on Women. Shame on our country!
52
How did Lizzy DeVos get the job as Secretary of Education without any qualification and a history of failure in the state of Michigan? How large were her and her family's donations to the Trump campaign, how many millions, bringing such an unqualified, uncredentialed woman whose family profits from charter schools financed by taxpayer dollars to the coffers intended to educate America's children? Among the many issues America is obliged to address in cleaning up the swamp Trump is restocking, DeVos needs to be forced out. Is this what America wants for its children and is this what Trumpites consider as Trump getting things done. I pity them.
18
How frustrating to take the side of the accused when statistics demonstrate it's rare for fake accusations to be levied. And to be the victim is horrible enough without this extra insult. Once again, Devos demonstrates not only her unfitness in this position but her cruelty and lack of understanding of these issues.
19
@Geneva9 There are false accusations, they're not that rare, partly because there's no penalty for making them. This is a very difficult problem, and sneering at those who are trying to figure out the best way to deal with it is unhelpful.
15
@Geneva9 Not true that it is rare for false accusations to be made. The annual reports filed by colleges and universities under the Clery Act show that approximately 1 in 5 accusations don't meet the 50.01% preponderance of the evidence standard where the accused has basically no rights of discovery, no rights to counsel, no right to ask questions of the accuser, and the judging panels are all instructed to believe the accuser. If you can't get a conviction with rules and standards like those, then there is something pretty darn rotten with the accusation.
A 20% rotten accusation rate is anything but rare.
23
@Geneva9
Fortunately, "statistics" do not govern the determination of guilt or innocence in our justice system.
9
As was mentioned, this is premature as nothing specific has been written yet and we all know with everything the “devil is in the details!”
Having said that I personally feel the colleges and universities have no business dealing with sexual abuse or outright assault. They have not the competence to do so. All reports of sexual abuse and assaults should be referred to the police either directly by the alleged abused person, or indirectly if that person reports the abuse initially to university authorities.
This is a job for the legal system’s professionals. Not university amateurs!
324
@SAH
I am sorry to inform you that part of the problem is the school officials who cover up these incidents. that is the root of the issue.
“The failure of U.S. schools to protect students from sexual abuse by school personnel is a story of school administrators and district cover-ups, lack of training, incomplete teacher background checks and little guidance from the U.S. Department of Education.”
Source: Government Accountability Officer https://lnkd.in/gh_rnZH
6
@SAH as one of those “university amateurs”, I can tell you we are extensively trained. I have sat on Title IX hearings and work with students who are victims of sexual violence. Colleges need their own process because what happens on the campus is not the same as what happens in the court room. Also, not all survivors want to press charges and that is ok. There are other processes a college can to, like changing a class schedule or housing assignments, so the victim is not further traumatized or put in danger. I would recommend you learn more about the responsibilities of university conduct and Title IX coordinators rather than assume we are incompetent and unable to provide the best service to our students.
1
@SAH I completely agree, these complaints should be in the criminal justice system, I’ve seen no good rationale for why they are not.
7
So if Trump were still in college and having an affair , would he be covered? And what about Priests at Catholic institutions?
17
This is a tremendous step backwards for women and other sexually vulnerable minorities. The campus rape and sexual assault epidemic is out of control. This is no time to be rolling back valuable protections for the weak. If anything, we should be moving towards a system where there is no blame or burden whatsoever placed on a victim in their fight for sexual justice.
11
Betsy DeVos is the most dangerous of all Trump’s appointees, in my opinion.
Protecting abusers is not protecting anyone. It makes one wonder about DeVos’s Christian mindset and why she is taking these steps. Who is she protecting, and why?
The Me Too supporters must step in. DeVos is a menace. She not only has not been educated in education, and thus throwing educational future to the wind, (with privatization and religion) she is allowing our youth to be socially abused, even promoting it.
17
They switch out the “danger! danger!” hat every few days. To keep us rattled. To keep the barrage coming from all angles and so we forget we said probably mere days earlier that xyz cabinet miscreant was the most dangerous of all.
@MIMA
Presumption of guilt represents the Christisn mindset, not innocence.
Seems oddly fair. I want to hate it but I can’t.....
193
@AG I thought some of this made sense but definitely not the part where alleged rapists have the right to question their victiims. Victims should always be protected from forced interaction with those accused of assaulting them. This seems heavily weighed in favor of perpetrators.
2
@Johanna The right to confront one's accuser is a fundamental part of our constitution and the basis of a fair criminal law system. I can't stand DeVos, but what she seems to be doing here is turning back the clock on the Star Chamber system present on too many of our universities.
7
@Johanna Cross-examination is perhaps the most important way to judge credibility. Especially important for the very kinds of charges where credibility is the most important.
A hearing board chair (or the like) can easily step in to stop a cross-examination that becomes abusive.
3
“Ms. DeVos has also criticized the Obama administration for imposing rules without following the legal processes, which would allow for a public comment period.” —wow. Is she also criticizing the Trump administration for repeatedly (and punitively!) doing this very thing? If not, why not?
22
If you are sexually assaulted, call the police. I understand that it is not always the best thing to do but, going to the Universities allows them to cover up assaults, or even worse handle them "internally". The perpetrators of sexual assault are the criminals, not the victims.
64
This is sickening. Why, when some progress has finally been made toward holding sexual abusers and those who protect them accountable, is Betsy DeVos proposing policies that would make it even harder for complaints to be heard, taken seriously, and prosecuted?
We are going down a path of evil, with Trump's appointees and his puppet Republicans leading the way.
16
@dutchiris
Due process and presumption of innocence is always for the benefits of the accused, not for the defendant or the police or the authorities. If we do away with this, we will end up with what is often called sidewalk justice which means trusting, the police, the authorities, and yes the accuser. It means doing the utmost that the innocent are not found guilty. And yes, these are the ideals while in the real world the criminal justice system presumes the accused is guilty and the sentence is negotiated. Such should be combatted, not applauded.
6
Not crazy on DeVos but I think its a good idea to narrow or better define the definition of sexual misconduct. There needs to be a rethink about the difference between behaviour that constitutes real harm and behaviour that is merely thoughtless, ugly and/or insensitive.
74
You put the Foxes in charge of the hen house, this is what you get. "We the People" have had enough of these swamp rats and their agenda. Midterms is time for the BLUE WAVE to oust the Foxes and bring back the moral standard that we believe works.
9
And to think, DeVos could have been appointed as Secretary of Education by any number of Republicans other than Trump. Worse, Trump emboldens people like DeVos who, like AG Sessions, are unleashing the sort of societal changes that preserve, protect and defend the guilty, the racists and the misogynists. I hope everyone else votes on November 6.
6
Men's rights groups said the accused had little recourse? Almost all lawyers noted that there was a complete lack of due process! I hope Erica Green edits that very quickly, because it's a ridiculous, biased opinion put in the middle of a news article.
19
It's hard to argue that the current system is optimal. It's impossiible to believe that this Administration is capable of acting in good faith.
4
Link to the policy?!
3
I despise Trump as the world's worst human being and DeVos as one of his enablers. And I haven't read the proposed rules. But if these rule would impose a higher legal standard which schools must bring to bear in making a decision which could ruin a student's life by branding the student a rapist, and deprive the student of an education at a school the student has worked hard to gain admission -- then this is absolutely the right thing to do. The Obama guidance imposed a "preponderance of the evidence" standard of proof on school-conducted rape hearings. This is the lowest standard of proof in the law -- a standard used in small claims court to resolve, e.g., who pays for a fender bender. It is utterly inappropriate as a standard of proof to resolve accusations of rape and sexual assault.
150
The trade-off for college campuses was that, in exchange for the preponderance of evidence standard to give more weight to the survivor's story, the accused would not be branded anything or necessarily deprived of an education (except in extreme cases), but could be suspended. Not ideal, I agree, but there was a balance attempted. For the Stanford swimmer, going to court had much higher stakes--he will be labeled a sex offender for life.
1
@Barry Schreibman agreed that the preponderance of evidence standard has been a rubber stamp for schools to wash their hands of problems, even in the case of other kinds of allegations , such as those involving substance abuse on school grounds, wherein students are basically thrown away to make life easier for administrators.
@alcatraz that's not true at all. The only action Obama took against excessive suspensions/expulsions was in high schools and relating to alleged racial disparities there. Not the campus sexual assault debate.
1
Does this mean if Donnie is at a university and engages (again) in his self-proclaimed "grab 'em by ....." behavior, that the victimized female(s) would have less protection than him?
11
Well, no. What Trump described in the Access Hollywood tape was straight sexual assault, and there’s no interpretation of any of the proposed rules that would get him off the hook. He would be liable not only to expulsion, but to arrest, imprisonment, and lawsuits. That would be true under Obama’s rules, DeVos’s rules, and any others that have been seriously proposed.
1
@downstate, but it would have to be proved to a higher standard and if Donnie keeps his mouth shut in court he's likely to get off scot free.
Only in a topsy-turvy Trumpian world would the perpetrators of sexual assault, harassment, and rape be portrayed as victims.
17
The rules here aren’t about people who have been found to be perpetrators. They’re about people who have been accused of being perpetrators. Such people may, in fact, be victims, if the accusations are untrue. The point of a justice system is to sort out which is which. You don’t have to be a reactionary to want that system to be fair to everyone concerned. And it can’t be fair if you begin with a presumption of guilt.
10
@zamiatin Only in an Orwellian world would people *accused* of a crime be automatically portrayed as perpetrators.
13
@Jeffrey Deutsch, alas, this does happen very, very often, and I'm not talking about rape cases.
I don't know how effective or detrimental the new DeVos harassment rules will be, but however difficult, there is a need for lack of bias, of fundamental fairness and the presumption of innocence in official procedures. While legitimate allegations outnumber false charges, the harm done by over-eager officials to "get tough" can be profound, even career ending.
Adding injury to injury, appeal procedures can also be remarkably unfair, established not to find fact and truth but to protect campus administrators and biased desires. When the accused must appeal to the same system-serving attorneys, officials and boards that support and advise those in charge of investigations, the consequences can be frustrating, fruitless and devastating.
My in-depth discussion of false charges and questionable procedures is available for some seriously interested in fairness issues. If the Times will permit it, my contact address is dougcatz(at)itstriangle(dot com)
It is essential for all parties involved in disputes to be granted substantial, clearly-established due process rights. Often policies state that the accused must be afforded "due process," but the specific rights are left unstated,
making it easy for biased investigators and decision makers to limit those rights in accordance with some possibly-corrupt agenda.
Doug Giebel, Big Sandy, Montana
16
Ok, we're officially in Bizarro World now.
2
Leave it to the accused sexual-assaulter’s presidential administration to bias the scales of justice in favor of the accused sexual assaulter over the sexually assaulted.
8
Been assaulted sexually or otherwise, or been harassed? Know the identity of the perp? Then don't just go to the cops. Sue!
In a civil suit, you only have to prove your case on the balance of probability. You select your legal team. You marshal the evidence. Provided the assailant or harasser is not a man of straw, then you can win substantial damages against him (it's usually him) or his employer.
'This article examines the hundreds of recent appellate court decisions in tort cases filed by rape and sexual assault victims. Looking at the cases themselves, the article documents and discusses the growth and change in the cases over the last thirty years even absent a formal change in the definition of the applicable torts. The article then explores the question - should tort actions by victims be seen as a direct alternative to an inadequate criminal process? The analysis reveals potential advantages for victims inherent in tort litigation, as well as problems for victims in this disjointed and developing area of law. Finally, the article examines cases filed against third-party defendants like business owners and employers and identifies important and contested issues that are ripe for examination by courts, legislatures and scholars.'
Bublick, Ellen M., Tort Suits Filed by Rape and Sexual Assault Victims in Civil Courts: Lessons for Courts, Classrooms and Constituencies (February 2006). Arizona Legal Studies Discussion Paper No. 06-16. https://ssrn.com/abstract=883671
9
But of course. Let them eat cake. Or in this case, tort.
students already struggling to pay the burdensome cost of an education, will easily be able to find the resources - emotional and financial - to lawyer up, place a civil suit and go to trial.
7
False accusers must also face serious criminal, civil sanctions.
13
Read the linked article. Plenty of lawyers will represent you on a no-win no-fee contingency. It's not that hard.
A civil trial is often much better for the victim than a criminal trial where the police and prosecutors fail to do a good job, the alleged perp is often acquitted, and the victim too often humiliated in open court.
In the kangaroo court of a university or college, there are no winners because the focus is on protecting the reputation of the Institution.
Again, read the linked article, which is open access, and you'll understand why a civil trial often makes sense. It starts by describing a failed criminal trial and the subsequent civil case that gave the plaintiff some measure of redress and justice.
5
This is the kind of woman unashamed to work for Trump! We need less of her kind in Politics.
1
This is pretty sickening. Sexual assault is already one of the most underreported crimes, and the social complexity tends to be a bit more pronounced on college campuses.
Yet another reason to thank God for not having children.
7
This is just another gem from the best and brightest of Trump's cabinet. Will no republican do anything to stop these leeches from ruining our country?
5
Of course. This disgusting, shameful act was long anticipated.
Blame the victim. Undermine the victim. Hurt the victim. As long as DeVos and her cronies are in charge, ED will do what it can to actively hurt women, children, minorities, and the poor.
11
@BMD Did you read the same article I did?
What is wrong with due process?
3
I've very surprised to be agreeing with anything DeVos has done, but this seems like a return to reason and fairness. The Obama rules were fuzzy and open to abuses and a naked pander to the female base.
109
Would you want one of your children to be tarred for life, labeled a sexual deviant, by a preponderance of evidence standard?
Impartial investigation of an athlete needed to squeeze donor dollars is a joke.
These university judicial boards are an abomination for both sides.
If it is serious to you, a criminal court is the place for the complaint.
80
As meager in detail as this story is, seems the new regulations may be headed in the direction of protecting everyone's rights.
66
“…the Trump administration’s new rules will have the force of law and can go into force without an act of Congress…” Yet another of many authorities ceded to the Executive by the Legislative over decades. Why aren’t the strict constructionists insisting on setting things right? I think we can guess the answer.
7
@HenryJ You might have heard of the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). Agencies routinely make regulations subject to a public notice and comment period.
Congress long ago delegated that authority because they can't possibly pass statutes covering nearly everything.
1
@HenryJ The Obama Administration's rules had the force of law and went into effect without an act of Congress.
1
@Generallissimo Francisco Franco, the article states that the Obama Administration only issued "guidance", not rules, and the guidance did not have the force of law.
I think the article could have given a much better explanation of this aspect.
One more reason why I am so glad that Mr. Trump is our president. It will take awhile to undo all the Obama damage but so far I couldn't be happier with the work that Mr. Trumps administration is doing. KEEP IT UP!
16
@JP This is such a curious statement. What precisely has Trump done that makes you happy?
2
@JP:
>all the Obama damage
The same fact-free right wing screeching. Doesn't trump's base ever tire of its own silliness?
Meanwhile, don't be fooled here. DeVos is ensuring that the accused rights matter more than the victims'.
3
It appears that, under these proposed standards (as reported), Duke Lacrosse, Columbia mattress, Virginia whatever-that-was would be history.
Can't wait to see how the commentariat here -- who, as I recall, were mostly pro-accused in those instances in these pages -- will react.
16
This is horrifying on so many levels. Rape, abuse and harassment survivors are often reluctant to report sex crimes through official channels, especially through schools that have a vested interest in keeping assault numbers artificially low. Pushing survivors into "mediation" or cross-examination will absolutely re-traumatize them and make them even more hesitant to make reports. And absolving schools of the need to address incidents off campus will allow predators to strike again and again, without consequences. There's no doubt abusers will make a point of only attacking people in off-campus settings. Policies on sex abuse have been deeply flawed for a long time, but these new regulations are rapist's dream.
18
@Greg It's not a crime without the rape kit. And if you don't want to report it, it probably isn't rape. Rape is not a difference of opinion, or something you decide in the morning, or something you choose to report after 13 months. It's something that should be going through the cops. This is a great thing.
14
@Greg "[T]hese new regulations are rapist's dream."
Ah yes, the old "coddling criminals" refrain. They trotted that out generations ago when, too, when the courts said poor defendants have to be given lawyers, and all defendants have to be advised of their rights.
I bet you're really worried about New York becoming overrun with criminals, now that they're actually setting up a commission to hold prosecutors accountable when they do stuff like hide exculpatory evidence from the defendant.
PS: Cross-examination is perhaps the most important way we have to judge credibility. Especially with precisely the kinds of charges where credibility is most important.
3
@GeorgePTyrebyter, that really is amazing nonsense. "It's not a crime without the rape kit"? you probably think there's no burglary if it's not reported and no murder if it's never discovered. "And if you don't want to report it, it probably isn't rape." This is from the depths of your experience?
3
A very necessary change for fairness for everyone. Simple. Protect those hurt. Give them due course. Protect the accused. Give them due course.
30
This is an interesting narrative, but, it is simply a recitation of the history of Title IX abuse. That abuse relentlessly created a hostile environment for men on college campuses.
The abuse stems from the Obama administration attempting to set a system of "extra-judicial punishment" against men simply on the basis of their gender or sexuality.
A noted federal jurist has recently ruled in a federal decision that such systems of "extra-judicial punishment" for sex crimes is unconstitutional.
Consequently, it is likely that the Department will instill reasonable due process requirements on the kangaroo court system that Obama set up.
Those due process requirements have nothing to do with favoring accused over accusers. In all cases, assuring minimum due process serves the interests of both the accused and the accuser, as, the sole purpose of due process is to increase the probability that a tribunal will arrive at the truth.
41
@JOHN
I'm not in favor of the preponderance of evidence standard but although I've seen a number of assertions of a hostile environment for men on college campuses they seem to proceed from folks who already believe in a much larger conspiracy against men which I find ridiculous. If there is such a conspiracy it's failing pretty badly. I don't see any indication that the Obama administration discriminated against men or sought to do so. Where does that come from?
1
@JOHN
you are incorrect that Title IX abuse started with obama. That claim alone demonstrates your partisan bias.
There are legitimate complaints that prior to the Obama rules Title IX was used to shunt real victims off the campus and hide actual crimes.
What the obama rules did was swing the pendulum to far away from due process and allowed unsupported complaints to ruin the lives of the accused with no proof.
part of the new trump rules move that pendulum way to far to the right.
The middle is for schools to get out of being the judge and jury and getting criminal courts to handle the claims as they are designed and empowered to do.
Hopefully, this will lead victims to report the attacks to local police for professional investigations. Campus police are security guards, not investigators. College administrators too often place their institution's reputation above student welfare.
28
@Joel Ii:
"Campus police are security guards, not investigators."
Campus police might not be investogators, but, unlike security guards, they risk putting their lives on the line as a matter of routine just like non-campus police do, and some have lost their lives in the line of duty.
It's shameful and mean-spirited to reduce them. Do better than that.
3
@Joel Ii, campus police are official police. If not officially sanctioned, they are not called police. That, at least, is true in my state.
1
Eventually we will get to the right solution: any time the school receives info of possible assault, a school officer picks up phone and dials 911. Immediately the situation becomes guided by due process and the school is covered. Applies to students, teachers, janitors, Presidents, regents, athletes, men, women, everybody. No exceptions. Publish the results of all reports on a web page so outsiders can track.
23
The Trump administration clearly holds meetings to air all ideas that will set back protections for women, immigrants, people of color, students, borrowers, the environment, etc. and that will protect corporations, polluters, usurpers, gun manufacturers and despots.
8
I would like to know how these proposed changes came about. What experts provided consultation and the legal framework for this decision? The accused would have all of the rights granted under the Constitution before these proposals were enacted. The accuser would be subjected to a more rigorous test in order to be believed after they are put in place. The burden experienced by school administrations in these instances is appropriately theirs as much as an employer is responsible when a hostile work environment is allowed to exist. More so, since often when these accusations are brought forth, it involves a power differential between the accuser and accused. Furthermore, students paying for an education should be able to expect a safe environment.
Once again, we hear about Betsy DeVos indulging her fantasy of knowing what’s best for everyone else, while her patron in the White House gets to add another notch on his belt for continued undoing of Obama justice.
10
@MG You miss the point (under the Obama rules) the accused does not have anywhere near the constitutional protections of a criminal defendant, and a much more limited access to a defense. I have first hand knowledge with the process at several state universities. The accuser is represented by a Dean, and the student is for the most part required to put on her own defense, with limited access to an attorney, in Title IX cases and no access to an attorney on other (non sexual) violations. Thus you have a well educated adult trying a case against an 18 to 25 year old, who has no idea what she is doing. I agree we need to keep students safe, but the system in place is not working. students are being kicked out of school without due process.
15
@MG how is there a ”power differential” between two students at the same university?
A copy of all reports should be sent to the police. Perhaps the people live should immediately be contacted for all reports. Perhaps the students should be taught to contact the police and report. I actually think the liability of the university should be removed or lessened. This is one of the issue repressing victims and reports. Schools can’t be held accountable for student sexual behavior in general, and if they are they should be held criminally or civilly responsible any way in court.
5
Here we go with one more profound insult to justice from an administration bent on removing every single protection and right fought for by people of conscience.
7
@123jojoba Running Kangaroo courts by inexperienced, untrained investigators whose sole goal is to protect the flow of money into a college/university is "a profound insult to justice". I agree with you on that!
16
This is a step in the right direction. Kudos to Ms. DeVos!
35
The accused, an alleged violent offender, gets to cross-examine the victim in an informal setting?! That's bizarre. If the crime were handled by the police, that would never happen in a courtroom. I'm surprised that DeVos didn't suggest that the victim and accused settle things through a duel.
8
@Kris
A good reason for leaving such matters to the police.
Btw, in a court of law, the accused has a constitutional right to face his or her accuser.
The accused also has a right, by his or her counsel or in his own defense, to cross-examine the accuser. In a 1988 Supreme Court decision, Justice Antonin Scalia was joined by the court’s liberal wing in reversing a conviction in a case in which an accused could not see a person testifying against him. “It is difficult,” Scalia wrote, “to imagine a more obvious or damaging violation of the defendant’s rights.” He noted that the right to confront witnesses could cause pain, not the least in cases of child abuse and rape. But, he said, “it is a truism that constitutional protections have costs.”
9
@Kris Putting aside that the whole point of a hearing is precisely to decide whether or not the complainant is a victim....
You're right, in a courtroom the defendant and complaining witness generally wouldn't cross-examine each other personally...that would be done through lawyers. I for one am just fine with doing it that way in college proceedings too.
3
It is wonderful to see a measured, balanced, and thorough approach for fighting sexual misconduct while protecting due-process rights and providing the best opportunity to determine the truth or falsehood of complaints. Real investigations of misconduct use transparent procedures with real cross-examination and judge behavior by clear rules. These new proposals are a big step forward.
291
@Amanda
"Real investigations of misconduct use transparent procedures with real cross-examination and judge behavior by clear rules."
What do you mean by "real"? The only REAL investigations are criminal investigations conducted by the police, not by campus authorities with no proper legal training.
And what do you mean by "real cross-examination"? Do you mean the ability of those accused of abuse to intimidate their accusers during a campus "investigation"? The only "real" cross-examination should be conducted at a trial, by lawyers, not by plaintiffs and defendants.
3
@Amanda I agree. My instinct is to hate everything that comes from this Administration, but I'm a criminal-defense attorney and this seems very well balanced (as, unfortunately, it was not before, but excessively tilted against the accused).
6
@Bob Putting aside that a hearing board chair or the equivalent can step in and stop abusive cross-examination...I for one have no problem using lawyers in college proceedings.
Finally, fairness and due process for all. Universities are driven by money only. If they suspend or expel, their precious federal funding continues. That's it! That's the motivation. The result, under this scenario is then a foregone conclusion.
36
@Donna J, you obviously know nothing at all about universities. They are not "driven by money only." Of course they can't ignore money; it is a constraint on their real goals, not a goal in itself -- except at for-profit universities, where it is the only goal.
2
Sexual assault cases should be tried by a court of law, not a university.
498
Don’t count on it. The police won’t investigate, and DA’s won’t prosecute, acquaintance rapes. If the schools won’t address the problem, nobody will.
12
@Enough: then the problem is getting law enforcement to do its job. The solution is not shifting the function of law enforcement to academic administrators
6
@Enough "...police won't investigate and DA's won't prosecute, acquaintance rapes". This is untrue in the extreme. As a retired Deputy Sheriff and one who has investigated my share of acquaintance rapes, the idea that police won't investigate the vast number of sexual assaults that fall under this rubric is laughable. The problem with universities trying to investigate, then adjudicate these cases is that the school has an implicit conflict of interest. It follows that nobody will get a fair hearing, although the school will come out smelling like a rose.
6
It is entirely improper for a school to act in place of the judiciary when it comes to making determinations of liability for alleged criminal behavior. Schools are places of education. Courts are places of criminal proceedings.
Schools are no more qualified to judge on criminal matters than courts are to award degrees.
566
I completely agree with you. The new rules, at first glance, seem surprisingly fair and balanced which surprises me but the radical left does not want the accused men to have due process. These rules will not survive the Trump Administration
62
@Citizen
Bravo
7
@Citizen
Courts impose fines and jail time.
Schools decide whether to expel a student, or to require a student to leave of absence, move to a different dorm, or change classes.
4
Betsy DeVos' mission is to place education out of reach for minorities and the disabled, and return this nation to a full-on patriarchal mode, complete with the re-normalization of rape culture.
Memo to Democrats: Please appoint work-groupa whose sole missions are to create and maintain roll-back lists of all the things Trump and his cabinet did while we weren't looking. Those lists will be the Democrats' marching orders during the first year back in control.
DeVos and Trump represent an America that the millennials don't want. They represent repression. They represent greed and corruption.
Vote.
---
Things Trump Did While You Weren't Looking
https://www.rimaregas.com/2018/01/07/blog42s-running-list-of-what-trump-...
90
"While the issue has centered on allegations against students on college campuses, it also applies to elementary and secondary schools and allegations against teachers, professors and other staff."
This is especially horrible in light of information in the Los Angeles Times today about a school district that has been liable for $15 million on sex abuse cases by teachers. One case hasn't gone to prosecution. The DA happens to sit on the school board.
This is what DeVos is protecting.
https://www.rimaregas.com/2018/08/07/greed-malfeasance-never-sleep-blog4...
25
@Rima Regas
This topic puts criminal conduct where it belongs, in the court system, and not in the hands of of academic administrators.
How this important change keeps education out of the hands of minorities and disabled persons, and/or represents any concept "repression," greed and corruption goes well beyond the scope of this article.
32
Problem is Millennials don’t vote. That is why Trump and DeVos are in charge.