I wonder if Kim Davis and Vigano have clued each other in on anything other than their mutual religion-sanctified hatred of gay folks?
Vigano would not let someone like 4X married Davis EVER take communion, even if she was Catholic.
Davis is an evangelical most likely of the mind that Catholics are not Christians.
That they are working in tandem is a grotesque display. Francis has both of them figured out.
90
As an Anglican, I have no particular dog in the fight between Viganò and Pope Francis. But it is nevertheless obvious to me what is going on here, and it has nothing to do with Viganò's concern for the victims of abuse. Rather, it is simply an opportunistic power grab. He is doing so by attempting to conflate outrage over two related but distinct categories of clerical abuse.
Most of us, I think, reserve special and particular outrage for the issue of clerical sexual abuse of children, primarily because of the helplessness and vulnerability of the victims. The accusations against McCarrick do not involve allegations of abuse of children, but of adult seminarians. That is not to say McCarrick's infractions aren't also very serious and in need of being dealt with, but lest we be hypocritical here, we should remember that what McCarrick is accused of with respect to the seminarians in his charge is no different from what many men in positions of power have subjected those under their authority (men and women alike) to since time immemorial. Wrong though it certainly is, it isn't child molestation.
The irony of a cleric who hails from a faction of the hierarchy that, when it held power during the previous two papacies, worked tirelessly to promote the cover-up of abuse allegations demanding the resignation of the Pope over one case in which, he alleges, the Pope was warned of clerical misdeeds but failed to act, is simply breathtaking.
88
There are so many issues at play here it is head-spinning. It's not too hard to imagine a schism happening in the church and maybe it should. There are similar overtones to the politics in the world right now as well. What would a schism look like? What would be the "sides"? Traditionalists/conservatives vs.....what?
6
The entire hierarchy has dirt on its hands. The whole thing needs to be blown up and reformed. Attorney generals should work as a body (similarly as they did during the financial crisis) and oversee a national investigation of the church including treatment of nuns and seminarians. Failure to cooperate with the investigation should result in the removal of the church’s tax exemptions. This catholic has greatly reduced her donations to the church and we should push for decentralization of the church and a return to small group worship.
17
Viganò, an Italian word for fraud and evil, that we mean by the word “evil”
24
I believe - and certainly hope - that history will treat this attack upon the Pope by this wannabe Cardinal as a desperation action by a small and dwindling faction of reactionary clerics within the church - including some of the worst enablers of the sex abuse scandal - to stem the inevitable tide of the openness that the Pope is supporting. The closest analogy to this may be the desperation coup that the remaining Stalinists in the USSR tried to pull against Gorbachov in 1990. While this seemed to succeed for a quick minute, the overwhelming opposition to this totally unpopular action - as typified by Yeltsen's defiance of the tanks - quickly toppled this doomed effort. What the Pope now needs is a strong show of support from Catholics who support his efforts and decidedly do not want to return to the dark days when: every action of the Church was conducted through the prism of the abortion issue; when leading Catholics who did not adhere to this rigid doctrine were threatened with denial of the sacraments and even excommunication; when women continued to be relegated to second class citizenship and orders of nuns deemed to be unduly independent were placed under the heavy handed oversight of reactionary prelates; when the scarlet letter of rejection was placed on the increasing number of divorced Catholics who wanted to remain in the Church; and when the Church did little more than go through the motions of advancing its critical social justice mission.
49
This is just "Trump-lies" coming to the religious sphere. The white supremacists and hard line conservatives hate Pope Francis because he is really a socialist at heart -- not much different than the image of Jesus in the New Testament. The right wing will say or do anything to get rid of a Pope who thinks that "faith without works is dead," and it is only by good works for others that one can be truly religious -- regardless of what religion he or she embraces.
49
So. To recap. The nuncio accusing the Pope of covering up sexual abuse does not have any evidence that he did so, but evidence exists that the nuncio himself covered up sexual abuse; the nuncio's own brother says the nuncio lied to the Pope in order to retain his perch in the Vatican; the nuncio deliberately undermined the Pope on his visit here because he thinks the Pope is too tolerant of homosexuality, and the nuncio is willing to risk destroying the Church further still in order to bring down a Pope against whom he has a personal vendetta as well as ideological differences?
The Pope was wise to refuse to dignify such accusations from such a person.
109
Liberal denial is piling up so fast that even the City of San Francisco has no program to remove it from our pathway.
4
Come on. Let's get on with it. Time to appoint Viganò Secretary of the Department of Religious Righteousness Patrol (see Iran) whereby Americans of all faiths are "reminded" of their duty and obeisance to Lord Trump and his Christ child Pence of Nazareth.
34
Viganò is nothing more than a Ratzinger toady; he refuses to see the Church actually become more "Christ Like" lest Viganò and his ilk loose their positions of power.
49
Based upon his history of reaction, opportunism, and lack of concern for the common person, Vigano is a poor example of religious leadership and has failed to follow the central precepts of Christ, found in the Sermon on the Mount.
Pope Francis inherited problems of the Church, with regard to sexual misconduct, internally destructive standards by which priests and hierarchy are chosen, political positions of a conservative leadership, that run counter to the teachings of Christ.
I do not know what Pope Francis learned about McCarick or when he learned it, but he has my confidence that he has been prudently taking the necessary steps to cleanse the Church of sexual predators. Time will tell, for Pope Francis.
Time is past for Vigano to be stripped of Church powers and benefits. Let him continue to write as many letters, articles and books as he wishes. In the process, let him also explain his own failures to take action with regard to matters of sexual abuse.
60
The true spirit of the catholic church does not rest with the Pope himself or cardinals or bishops that are full of themselves in their fancy garments. The Christian spirit rests with heroes like Mother Theresa who didn't offer a ring to kiss but lived a lifetime washing and caring for the sick and dying regardless of their race or religion. She is more "Christ-Like" than the upper echelon of the entire Catholic Church.
24
I was ready to write a long-winded comment, but can only say how appalled I am at what has become of the church that I actually liked being a part of as a (too naive?) child. Not only the predator priests, and the higher-ups who allowed them to continue their practices, but also the self-serving actions of men such as Archbishop Vigano and the continued male-domination of the clergy.
I still believe Jesus picked 12 men as apostles because of the male-oriented society at the time; times have changed.
32
I read the letter. It's interesting. Clearly this guy has an axe to grind, especially with regard to Jesuits. On the other hand, he has amassed a lengthy list of times, dates, correspondence, and characters to make his case. It's a bit spooky. It's also no small surprise that Pope Francis took the "no comment" option given what is in the letter. If you ever wanted a look inside bureaucratic infighting, this will give it to you. Even a guy with a huge grudge can get some things right. Vigano may be a modern Martin Luther, albeit in a different way.
7
What none of these prelates seem to realize with any degree of clarity is that they are soon going to be fighting over the crumbs that have fallen from the table. The real influence of the Catholic Church has been in serious decline for a long time. Add these abominations and the handling by not just one element but many across the spectrum of the Church, and that decline becomes a collapse. Who can trust any of it anymore. I don't see Christ anywhere in any of it or in anyone involved.
14
The ironic richness of Vigano's letter is indicative of the deep (and often hidden) corruption of power and influence that has permeated the Vatican for decades. It is nearly impossible to entertain the notion that anyone in the Church hierarchy is free of blame here. For all the shortcomings and blindspots that Pope Francis has demonstrated, all in all he is a giant leap in the direction of a more tolerant, compassionate and inclusive set of beliefs. Francis is definitely not perfect, but it is encouraging to see a leader of this major religion try to move his members forward bit by bit.
42
It seems likely that none of the leaders at the Vatican have clean hands regarding the cover up of child abuse. It is too pervasive to have been a secret from any of them. My guess is that Vigano is no less guilty than Pope Francis and maybe more so because he was part of the conservative cabal that led the church for 3 decades prior to the election of Pope Francis.
17
The Catholic hierarchy seems to have all the backbiting and pettiness of a revival of "The Boys in the Band," and I say that as a lapsed cradle Catholic and a gay man. It's a shame really. Among the kindest, most charitable, and altruistic people I've known in my life are some of the Catholic parishioners I knew as a child. Their leadership has let them down. More of the same is not the answer.
24
Given the sheer breadth of what's been uncovered over the last few years and the scope of just Pennsylvania's Grand Jury report, its unlikely in the extreme any member of the Church hierarchy isn't fully aware of this multi-generational cover up. Multiply Pennsylvania's finding by every place the Church reaches and that's probably a good estimate on the number victims over the last 40 years or so. The "Church" is utterly broken and it's likely beyond repair. But it's faithful, like Trump's followers, will likely hold for a generation or two. But, sexual and physical abuse of children, covered up at an institutional level, isn't something you come back from.
8
Vigano has an axe to grind. Plus, he and his cohorts that it should be their way or the highway, ie, stay exclusive even if it alienates more people. Religious people are just as sinful as lay people.
10
Vigano is an opportunist who is merely trying to take advantage of a horrific and disgraceful matter that has spread throughout the Church worldwide in an attempt to unseat the current Pope. He hasn't called for the resignation of the Cardinals and bishops who knew of the abuse but did nothing, which of course includes hte conservative majority. If the current Pope were to resign, who does he expect to replace him? Benedict XVI, who also knew of the abuse? A current Cardinal who was complicit in the coverup? The Church must reform but this is mere politics.
34
The archbishop obviously has lied and has a motivation to lie. Yes, Francis' silence is tantamount to an admission that the allegations are true. It would be so easy to put this issue to bed by denying but Francis is not-why?
4
It's obvious that all recent popes and high ranking church officials and clergy were aware of abuses and misconduct. Pointing fingers in the past is meaningless, they all bare responsibility. The important questions that need to be asked is what steps have been taken to hold the abuser accountable and what processes have been put in place to ensure that these atrocities, and the cover ups, never happen again?
On another note, I continue to be surprised by people who view Pope Francis as some sort of Liberal champion. He hasn't changed Catholic doctrine. He views abortion and homosexuality as grave mortal sins and has preached these views publicly.
6
Pope Francis isn't the spiritual leader with deep ethics like we had hoped.
Is it possible that someone has a video of a child being sexually assaulted by a priest? I believe that the world need to watch the terror in children being raped. Maybe then it will sink in that those men need to be imprisoned for the rest of their lives.
There is no argument that is sane to protect those priests who sexually assault innocent children.
12
A keeper of grudges? When is exposing the pedophiles keeping a grudge? Good grief? Has the Left lost its mind entirely?
7
@Southern Boy
Read the article please.
This archbishop is trying to equate being gay with pedophilia. He also did not deal with the scandal in Minnesota and now has "disappeared".
That has zero to do with your pointing fingers at people you disagree with politically. That is on you.
16
Rome is getting to be terrible. Avignon is nice, I hear.
13
The election of Pope Francis in March 2003, marked the beginning of the end for the tentacles of conservative Cardinal's decades of financial and moral corruption and abuse. Documentation is available for anyone at this point.
Archbishop Viganò was and is center of this corruption. His accusation of Francis is a debased guttural tactic to regain power.
At the same time, after 50 years of cover-ups, no one is innocent. Francis however offers leadership to transition to a totally new leadership. First, the entire College of Cardinal should resign.
14
Vigano must be a Republican. Same tactics. Dirty tricks, throw out a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors to villify an opponent and then hide in the shadows.
Narrow minded people like Vigano are why the Catholic church has been in decline for the last century. And the same is true of the Republican party and the USA.
16
Archibishop Vigano appears to be a mean-spirited malcontent. He deserved to be fired by the pope from his previous post for back-stabblng him during his U.S. visit. Now this. Why is the NYT giving so much press to a man who clearly is carrying a grudge? All levels down to the congregations themselves in the Catholic Church are complicit in not finding a way to stop the ongoing sexual abuse by clergy and by drawing a bright line standard that no abuse, no coverups, no packing pedophiles off to the next parish is acceptable. Pope Francis is at least doing the right thing -- even with some missteps. Time for the Catholic Church to allow priests to marry -- and get rid of the ridiculous rules instituted to protect church property . Time to send sourpuss Vigano in to retirement. He is self-serving and bitter. BASTA
18
When a Pope is 'elected' by the College of Cardinals, they believe the outcome is determined by God. Who is this Viggy dude to claim that he knows better than God who should be the Pope?
25
I fear that if all the cardinals and archbishops complicit in protecting priests from their crimes were to resign, there would be very few left to lead the Church. Perhaps this will be how an African or Asian rises to the Papacy.
1
@aem
Many African priests are said to be living with their girl friends quite openly. Maybe this should be the future of the church.
4
WWJD?
2
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò should become Trump spin master. These men have no shame.
19
Uhm? May I remember everyone swiftly here that there still is a powerful old Nazi-pope, the German Pope Benedict XVI., in the Vatican? Oki docki, you Abraham's "geniuses" everywhere.
Now, what I wonder about here exactly is: which dark-side of the Vatican was colluding with the Trump whisperer and pedophile Nazi, Steve Bannon, to rig elections and Secular Democracy with such Nazis' propaganda-fabrications as "Pro-Life", the arch-conservative pedophiles in the Vatican or the non-pedophile more "moderate" and Liberal-side?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lesterfeder/this-is-how-steve-banno...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=159&v=FWXScQaZ2uI
If there is any such thing as a moderate and liberal side in organized religions who condone primitive violent misogynistic make-beliefs which are glorfying a discriminating and sadistic cruel pedophile human-King
1
What did Pope Francis know, and when did he know it. I don't want him to resign, but I do want to know that.
6
The incident about lying about his brother confirms it. Vigano's letter is highly suspect. Read it and count the number of actual observed facts vs absolutely certain and self-important conclusions. The ratio is in propaganda territory.
21
@Ralph: I agree.
I'm wondering why a screed from a figure with known biases is shaking the Roman Catholic Church "to its core".
Pope Francis is no radical reformer, but he does seem to be taking some steps to clean up this mess. Am I wrong about that?
8
I was at the noon Mass today on the upper east side of Manhattan where the pastor asked for our prayers for Pope Francis and the Catholic Church. If the Church ever needed prayers, this is certainly the time. I was pleasantly surprised at how many people were in attendance especially when this was not a holy day of obligation or a Sunday Mass and the soon start of a long weekend.
Obviously, the Church holds relevance and is still important to many of us. I would be lost without my Catholic faith as would many others. Why do we go? We go to pray to Jesus for his help and guidance in our lives. I was particularly struck at how faithful and devout the people were. This was very encouraging especially in the midst of this sexual abuse scandal.
I will never give up the faith that has sustained and gotten me though the good and bad times. I know with God's grace, we will get through these trying times and hopefully become stronger. We must if we are to survive as a faith of 1.3 billion members.
Right now the Church needs healing as does the many victims of this scourge on our faith. This is horrible that those higher ups looked the other way and transferred these evil priests to other parishes to continue their evil ways. Those who were complicit in this depravity must be held accountable no matter who they are or their rank within the Church. They should be removed from ministry and never be allowed to serve this Church again. This cannot be said enough.
22
@WPLMMT For what it's worth your numbers are from the Vatican...equivalent to the number of Hindus and much less than Muslims.
2
Who is telling the truth or who is lying means nothing to me in this matter. The Catholic Church lost its way many, many years ago — its main concern is money, power, and infrastructure.
Cardinal Law, formerly of Boston; protector of pedophiles; and master of allowing children to be molested, now enjoys a second career in Rome.
Francis, what do you say to that?
9
@Peg Rubley:
>>>"Cardinal Law . . . now enjoys a second career in Rome. Francis, what do you say to that?"
I expect the pope would say that Law had retired from his position in Rome before Francis took office and that the late cardinal now "enjoys" burial in a pleasant cemetery.
11
@Douglas
Thank you for the correction.
WIKIPEDIA
"Within weeks of his resignation, Law moved from Boston to Rome. When the state AG issued his report entitled Child Sexual Abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston (2003), he severely criticized Law, mentioning that "the Archdiocese has shown an institutional reluctance to adequately address the problem and, in fact, made choices that allowed the abuse to continue." .... He said that Cardinal Law had not broken any laws, because the law requiring abuse to be reported was not expanded to include priests until 2002. [Comment from Peg - Good Lord!]
In May 2004, Pope John Paul II appointed Law to a post in Rome, as Archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, a sinecure with only ceremonial duties. Some saw this an attempt to shield Law from potential criminal prosecution as his new position conveyed citizenship in Vatican City.
Law reached age 80 on November 4, 2011, and lost the right to participate in a papal conclave..... He remained as archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore until 2011.
In Rome, Law was considered an active and important conservative voice. Robert Mickens, a longtime Vatican journalist, reported that Law believed he had been "badly done by"..... Mickens said, "He did not lose his influence. He was a member of more congregations than any other bishop.... Bernie Law attended the meetings and he goes everywhere and he keeps his head held high."
Cardinal law passed away 12/20/17.
1
Vigano shows that he is as big of a coward as all the higher up fellow cross-dressers he now accuses. Have other people post his letter and then go into hiding. A true inhabitant of the snake pit called the Vatican.
8
Vagano is simply a disgruntled conservative loser. H e knew all of this when JPII was in charge but leveled nothing because his side ruled the Vatican. Well, the glacial change of the Roman Church is happening with the changing of the guard and Vagano is just an old, delayed snitch. I say ignore him and let the Church enjoy this opening into the light. Ad majorem Dei gloriam - go get 'em, Frankie!!
21
The politics behind this looks alot like the conservative republican party’s narrative around immigration. The republicans created a dilemma around fair immigration by obstructing any legislation that may have helped solve the problem. Then, in the most ugly and cynical way, they claim to “solve” the problem with policies that will create new and more intractable problems.
Make no mistake, the right wing Catholics, including Vigano, had complete control of the church during all the time the abuses occurred. They silenced all criticism from inside the Church. For them to connivingly twist this truth to regain control is just another example of their weak moral fiber and of how they got themselves into such mess.
128
Those hiding behind all those fancy vestments and "infallible" doctrines should take heed of my children and their friends who have disavowed the RC Church. RC churches are closing every day. To my children God is a far greater presence than doctrines of old men and those who hide behind them. They look to the golden rule and common sense for their guidance and make wonderful contributions through their jobs and care of my grandchildren.
17
I intuit that Pope Francis is trustworthy. If I am wrong about that I am hopeless. Nothing in what I have read says Francis is out to make himself more important (how could he? He is the Pope) But beyond this power thing, and this clearly is something that affects Bishop Vignano, who seems to have become a tad unhinged by not being made a cardinal, is that Francis has always been focused on helping others. I think he would love to leave that nest of vipers. But he is commited to the Good and to the people of the Church, whom, like a good shepherd, he wants to lead into green pastures. Too commited to throw them to the so-called conservatives, the worldly self aggrandizers -- and especially the cowboy prelates of the USA -- power hungry beyond all seeming.
Francis would rather fight and lose -- with his integrity-packed character and his good clear loving mind, like a good little Jesuit.
I expect he will lose and the Catholic Church will then become what for too long it has been, saved only by its historical cultural importance: A small antiquated provincial backwater ... struggling in strange new times alongside the other, has-been world spiritual institutions, for a little recognition.
I only hope the 3rd world Catholic Church can pick up the debris and make a mission out of it to help their people. Because that is what these faith based systems are for: to help the desperately needy.
The old world that the RC Church has represented for too long, Europe & America, is done.
16
Someone is lying and has to go to Confession or else they are condemned to eternal damnation. As a practicing Catholic, I have held the many priests I've known in high esteem. But they are humans and have frailties like everyone else. That being said, there should be no church official kept on if they break the law.
10
Raymond Burke obviously had a hand in writing Vigano’s letter. They both thrive on the pomp that ermine capes of a bygone era once enjoyed. Pope Francis isn’t going to resign. He needs to quickly and thoroughly clean house, and it needs to be a deep cleaning. Follow the cleansing with a time of repentance, and a return to focusing on the poor.
19
I would imagine that he’s a keeper of the faith and a keeper of grudges, and I’m not sure which is worse. I don’t really care. The only thing that matters here is whether his accusations are true. If they are, then Francis is even more of a force for wickedness than he revealed himself to be when he lashed out at abuse victims for claiming that a bishop had shielded their abuser, and his supporters need to abandon him en masse, or surrender their right to be viewed as decent, liberal Catholics.
3
@Ashley
Ashley. The person who makes an accusation without any documentation or proof - the person who himself is accused of the same crimes he accuses another - the person who has a history of revenge & vindictiveness and who is enraged he was not made a cartdinal - should be viewed with a lot of skeptical disbelief.
We must not accept accusations at face value- and certainly not from one who is likely a bearer of false witness.
15
@jaryn Nothing that you said contradicts anything that I said. I want the allegations against the pope to be thoroughly investigated, and if they are found to be true, I want the defenders of the pope to do the right thing and stop supporting him. If you object to that, I consider you a part of the problem.
If Cardinal Vigano is concerned for his safety, who exactly is he afraid of? Surely not Pope Francis. It's more likely that he's trying to remain safe from the defrocking he so richly deserves.
23
I have always found it interesting that Nuns are relegated to the back of the Church yet I have never read of a scandal involving Nuns abusing their position. The men of the Church have pretty well mucked things up. Let's allow Nuns into the hierarchy.
15
@Fred Madgalene Laundries, anyone?
6
@Fred, google Sisters of Mercy abuse , et al.
5
Both, obviously. What, you don't get the Vatican?
1
The Archbishop is a conservative. That, of course dictates that the old ways of the Church are the only way. What is important here is that the Pope is part and parcel of the pedophile scourge of the Catholic church if the archbishop is telling truths. I believe he is.
3
@DENOTE MORDANT Well apparently this Vigano archbishop was also accused of covering up sexual abuse. It seems pretty clear that almost every cleric in the Catholic church had some knowledge, or some intuition as to what was going on. And this letter smacks of vindictiveness and of a power play. It's a lot of drama about Vigano rather than a serious look at the horrors of institutionalized sexual predation.
5
Im an atheist and a BIG fan of Pope Francis. Seemingly he is one of the few popes who actually lives to serve - and he’s doing it without wearing any handmade red slippers. I do not, however, have any respect for the Catholic Church as an institution. That church, like almost all churches, is rotten to the core. ALL churches are incompatible with what the Bible actually teaches, ESPECIALLY the evangelical Christian churches in America.
29
This is all quite fascinating, but it also suggests that the Catholic Church is like any other organization -- for profit or otherwise. In part, the smarmy behavior of earlier popes sparked the Reformation. That the Church has homosexuals among its clerical ranks should surprise no one. Perhaps we ought to return to the ancient practice of attaching bells to the robes of the priests. That way, unsuspecting minors will be able to hear them approaching.
10
I have no doubt at all that Vigano is doing this primarily out of vengeance.
That being said, it could very well be true. I suspect all recent popes have been aware of the culture of covering up abuse. If there is any actual proof of these claims, the world deserves to see it.
6
Its crystal clear that the American theocrats of the Catholic Church are simply attempting to exploit a scandal that in fact was only beginning to be fully revealed during the reign of the two previous conservative Popes, John-Paul and Benedict. Benedict, we must recall, was the first pope in several centuries to have abdicated, and in point of fact likely stepped down because of the revelations of the extent of the complacency of the last 50-75 years within the Vatican for the sexual abuse and exploitation of children, nuns and seminarians. Vigano's and his theocratic allies intent to roll back the liberalizing policies of Pope Frances was made manifest by Vigano's repeated blame for the growing scandal on "Homosexual elements" within the Curia of the Catholic Church.
We must remember that the theocrats in the US primary goal is to stymie and reverse the Progressive policies begun by Frances of focusing the Church's efforts on expanding inclusivity within the ranks of Catholics, and of bringing the wealthy and godless mega-corporations to task for their all consuming focus on profits- At the expense of their (and our) humanity.
11
In addition to clerical abuse another scandal that was making the news at the time of pope Benedict was the chaos and possible criminality in the Vatican Bank. The finances of the Vatican were a mess. There was some book written about it titled Benedict was Afraid. Benedict didn't seem to want to handle the problem, or perhaps was not able.
Francis sent a Vatican official,to prison for discussing the bank issue with journalists. He said it embarrassed the Church. I think in the US at lest this letter has caused a lot more embarrassment than leaks about the Vatican Bank ever did
Really. Such DRAMA. How can the Pope’s stance have directly contributed to the sexual abuse when the alleged acts occurred decades ago. Seems V didn’t think that part out. WHATEVER
16
Don't you love it when a Bishop gets in a fight with his brother over an inheritance? So much for the vow of poverty. Or when a Cardinal (Law) runs away from home to avoid meeting with victims or facing justice? This is a church run amok, completely incapable of fixing itself. Time to split into two churches (social justice/Jesus disciples) and conservatives that believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. Both should be run by like-minded laity. The infallibility of the Pope is a dead concept and wasn't part of the original deal anyway.
10
@Q Diocesan priests don't take a vow of poverty. In fact, they can't. They need to own things like cars. Ordered priests, like Jesuits and Franciscans, do. Conservative Catholics don't believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. They do believe in a literal interpretation of the catechism. The infallibility of the Pope only applies when he is speaking, or writing, ex-cathedra which is almost never. The last time was 1950 and before that, 1870.
15
One change that, on first glance, is superficial is for the church to banish the vestments, cassocks, various headgear, and replace them with business suits. After all, the church is a mega-corporation answerable to nobody. The priests, bishops, cardinals would look like middle-managers and not the mysterious clerics that children (and adults) look up to. They shouldn't be accorded respect because of their vestments - changing their clothing would bring them down to earth and our views of them would be brought down to earth also.
9
The conservative wing of the church dominated for decades. They allowed no dissent from the orthodoxy that the Great evils of the world are abortion and gay sex.
Then, somehow, the church gets a humane leader and then to need accept higher authority disappears. Hmmm.
14
Reassuring to know that the Catholic Church really hasn't changed much in a thousand years.
5
Vigano is the problem. Segregation versus integration. Whether a baker in Colorado or an ex-Archbishop, them versus us. My only simple response is what was some of the final words as a man died on the cross,"Father ,they know not what they do." He died for all of our sins ,Jew, Muslim ,Christian , Budhist , Hindu & Atheist to just name a few. It is a shame what hate will do to a person. I pray for their souls so they might know Jesus Christ . As for Pope Francis, please continue , return the Church to the teachings of Jesus Christ . For the fear mongers , hate & lies are your only weapons, why is it you adopt the anti-Christ presidents ploys? It is not whether you win or loose the game,it is how you have played it. Something Jesus would have said,many millions of true Christians have lived by it since Christ inspired us to live better lives .
9
Vigano is no more exposing a grudge than those abused kids were exaggerating! These articles alluding to Vigano lying because he has an agenda are exactly why this abuse has gone on for so long. The media dismissed the accusations! Of course the Pope knew! Was Mr. Tosatti hit with a "stupid stick"? Or does his Catholic reverence include whitewashing to protect his precious church. I'm Roman Catholic...Mr. Tosatti's blatant refusal to pay attention to Vigano offends me.
3
@J. G. Smith
But where is Vigano's letter when Pope John Paul II was alive? Or when Benedict XVI was in power? crickets until his political opponent sent him away.
8
Take the time to read Vigano's letter. Then comment on whether its accusations and tone are credible. It reads as if the man was intoxicated when he produced it.
18
Being a victim of the Catholic church my feelings is we need to seize their assets throw all the priests who are pedophiles in jail for the rest of their lives. A ban of the catholic church from this country until they allow their priests to marry would be a start. IF they refuse then we will not allow them into our country or use our financial/Banking system.
8
Weird...pretty sure covering up abuse is why the previous Pope suddenly disappeared. Amazing this guy is trying to pin it on Francis. Reminds me of trump trying to pin everything on Obama
29
Borgias without murders; so juicy and so pathetic and sad.
9
So Vigano has been accused also of a cover-up, doesnt deal with that, but just points the finger at the guy who is trying to work with vicims? Then he just disappears?? He thinks Kim Davis is someone with integrity rather than Francis? Wow.
Do any of these "tentacles" reach Steve Bannon?
18
Thank you New York Times for the fair and balanced reporting on Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò. Archbishop Viganò, who appears to have many axes to grind and clearly embittered that he was retired out before being elevated to Bishop ought to look within himself instead of scapegoating everyone else, including Pope Francis. The fact that Archbishop Viganò is now in hiding and unreachable for comment speaks volumes about who he truly is -his cowardice in the face of his lack of character as well as a distorted ethical and moral compass. An embittered man who is aged and perhaps on the cusp of dementia. He is to be pitied more than scorned. Thanks again, New York Times!
18
Interesting that the Vatican kicks the whistleblower out of his apartment, and shelters and comforts the rapists of children.
7
@Fern Vigano is not so much a whistleblower as a disgruntled, vindictive ex-employee seeking vengeance.
6
Unfortunately it doesn't really matter whether the so-called "progressives" win or if the conservatives do. This is a private club of clerical men who retain to themselves the right of membership and policy. They wouldn't know how to reform even if they wanted to. Nothing significant will change while the priestly sacramental role has been conflated with organizational authority. An answer is for lay people to begin to exercise organizational authority - take over the property and leases, become the fiduciaries, manage the trust funds. Only then might a reform be possible wherein a crime against a child is acted against appropriately.
8
This only shows the serious problems with the Vatican. POLITICS and POWER. In my opinion, it is time for the church to get back to the basics in working with the poor, world peace and open the doors to women, gays and create an option of celibacy for the religious just to mention a few. And for goodness sakes do away with fancy vestments and headdress. Keep it simple.
19
When will Robert Langdon arrive in this story?
11
The National Catholic Register has a lot to answer for.
They decided to publish a bomb-throwing letter written by a man who apparently is known widely as a person who has covered up abuse, lied, purposefully undermined Pope Francis in public and in private, is ambitious and resentful and a rabid anti-gay bigot.
They published without a shred of corroborating evidence and with the Archbishop's own admission that "he felt the need to retaliate" against those who stood in his way.
The letter lacks any pretense of sympathy or even recognition for the nuns, adult women and girls who have been abused by priests for millennia, nor for those women consigned to secretive institutions where they worked without pay and had their children taken from them by force. He ignores, too, the complete lack of data linking pedophilia and homosexuality, instead shrieking his unsubstantiated theories and scapegoating a few for the crimes of the many.
Then he "disappears", running away from any questions or demand for proof.
The Archbishop has very little personal or professional credibility. The National Catholic Register, in agreeing to publish such a screed in clear contradiction of even the most basic journalistic ethics, obviously has no credibility at all.
60
One step at a time perhaps? What role did the last two Popes play in dealing with ex-Cardinal "Uncle Ted" McCarrick and his abusive sexual misconduct? Is Vigano's account of the two Popes' actions toward McCarrick largely correct or not?
4
If the author won't stand behind his demands, why should we, his audience?
In reality - The Pope The Catholics have now is the best their Church can muster.
Work together on a plan to stop predatory pedophilia and the root cause - belittling of women in the Church.
Stop the bizarre in-fighting.
8
@Mike Yeah, no. These are serious allegations and they should be thoroughly investigated. If they are found to have no merit, then of course the pope should not be punished. But if they are found to have merit, why on earth would you want to ignore the fact that the leader of the Church is as much a part of the problem that he’s ostensibly fighting as anyone else? Don’t you want a pope who has moral authority? And if you genuinely think that the Church can’t find a pope who has moral authority, doesn’t that say more about the Church, and about the wisdom of remaining a member, than about the pope whose leadership you’re defending?
2
A 7000 word document that isn’t full of details and evidence is a screed best sent straight to the circular file.
32
It seems somewhat hypocritical that an apologist for the right-leaning sector of the church hierarchy that swept the abuse under the rug to keep the Church's "good name," and in so doing has spent funds meant for the pensions of the retiring Religious on settlements for their abuses. Viganò is a self-serving gadfly. Pope Francis's only mistake at this point is in not holding this scumbag's feet to the fire with these outlandish accusations.
19
This is always the hypocrisy of the right wing. This guy was silent for decades when the right wing pops were in power and suddenly discovered Jesus. No different than the Republicans who always complain about budget deficits and when they gain the White House spend like drunken sailors and throw money to the rich while deficits suddenly don’t matter.
29
Whether the teachings of Jesus are your faith or just the basis of your general philosophy of life, the hyper-conservatives who relegate women to secondary roles, insist on unnatural lifelong celibacy and seldom act like the “humanitarians” they profess to be, all need to be quickly relegated to the ash heap of history. The institution will not survive them and their severe mental atrophy. Francis had better pick up the pace if he really wants to purge their remaining influence, the world moves on much faster today than it did in 1600 or even 1960.
20
In all fairness,
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò has been Captain of the College of Cardinals' Varsity Leap Frog Team for Decades.
His dedication to keeping our women priests and married priests, is at the core of priests, who molest children, and are immediately forgiven in the confessional.
5
I want to know why the Vatican reporter was wearing a simple clerical collar.
4
@Thomas Randall
The archbishop was the one "with a simple clerical collar, a Rocky Mountains baseball cap and an explosive story to tell."
1
Archbishop Vigano and other arch conservative Bishops have been very unhappy with Pope Francis. They enjoy living in their large apartments and dining in the best restaurants. They love being fawned over while draped in regal clerical garb. Pope Francis is attempting to put an end to their lavish and pampered lifestyle and they don't like it.
35
It is precisely why the church is in disarray . Curia like Vigano have kept the church in the dark ages . I do believe that Francis has been targeted ; no longer by the poison in the tea but by poison of the pen . Vigano is the "mean girl "who jealously tries to sabotage the prettier nice one . If it weren't so serious , this comedy could be titled " men in skirts". Vatican politics played low and dirty .
16
“Homosexual cabal” - because the fact that women were also abused by “priests” is of no consequence to these nutters who want to blame everything on gay people
25
@Sheri DH Yes, in part it's about blaming everything on gay people, but it also does not matter to the RC church if something bad happens to women, as women are much more dispensable, being mere sperm receptacles and childbearing vessels.
4
Males who prey on male children are generally heterosexual, odd as that may seem.
2
Maybe this arch-conservative person fears the ultimate liberation of the Catholic Church - allowing its priests to marry.
6
This incident does not deserve it's place in the NYTimes. The letter is just that, with no evidence, just a ranting from someone that appears to have quite an ego himself. Shame on the NYTimes for promoting this nonsense. Of course the Catholic church knows about sexual abuse, has for decades and we've been reading about it for decades. Started with payoffs, which kept victims quiet - shame on them. But this Archbishop is a coward and without any evidence, the NYTimes is publishing fake news. Don't like it? Well, I could write a letter claiming anything, and if it attacked Reps, the Catholic church, conservatives, gun owners, or those opposing illegal immigration, it would be published here.
12
This article mentioned “with no evidence” three times. They are covering the reaction to the letter, which is news. It’s not fake news that the bishop published the letter, even if the allegations turn out to be false. And it IS news that he attacked the pope so publicly.
8
@Ma
I think it's disturbing that you would rather dismiss these allegations outright without wanting to know whether they are true. Vigano isn't some nut who is making spurious claims. He happened to be the Vatican's ambassador representing the church in the USA for years and has a reputation for being serious and truthful. I'm not saying he doesn't have an agenda, but that really is beside the point. These are deeply serious allegations from someone who's in a position to know, so at least they can be investigated before passing judgment. McCarrick is accused of molesting at least one minor 47 years ago, as well as molesting seminarians for decades. It is astonishing that his career could have been advanced as bishop, archbishop and final cardinal under such circumstances, including full support from the current pope for the last five years. Even the USCCB has called for a full investigation of Vigano's accusations. So how can you claim some illuminated knowledge that there is no evidence? It seems to be an attitude of believe the accusations if they come from people you like, but utterly dismiss them if they come from people you disagree with. That's not seeking the truth, that's cover up. It seems just like Trump vs. Mueller to me. There must be some conspiracy or witch hunt, so we'll just shut down the investigation. That's appalling, and that's the attitude I see coming through in most of the NYT comments on this whole affair. And I'm a left-wing liberal!
1
of course a significant number of the hierarchy and older priests are gay. It wasn't until very recent times that being a male, catholic and gay meant a life of hiding your sexuality or joining the priesthood. Being priest provided male companionship, shelter from the observations of the outside world, a secure job and status.
Being gay does not mean pedophilia. The number of pedophiles in the clergy may well be a consequence of snatching twelve year old boys who seemed to have a slight inkling of a vocation right before high school and into the seminary while their sexuality was only half formed.
This latest jousting for position between the various factions in the church is an Italian comedy. Nothing will come of it.
23
I need to ask the Times why it took it's Rome reporter more than three days to reveal that Vigano is a disgruntled conservative prelate who covered up the scandal of a Conservative Archbishop of Minneapolis, who was forced to resign because of charges of unacceptable sexual conduct with seminarians, and was then sacked by Pope Francis.
Also, why did they not reveal the fact that Benedict has labelled the assertions regarding his sanctioning of McCarrick as fake news.
It seems that the Times has willingly given credibility to Vigano's lies about Francis publicized by the the National Register and its related EWTN network, which is the Fox News counterpart for Catholic journalism.
The award winning National Catholic Reporter reported this days ago:
https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/distinctly-catholic/vigano... Francis
and
https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/benedicts-secretary-report...?
You need to go deep into the Horowitz column to find out what kind of a narcissistic rogue Vigano is.
There is much to criticize the Church about in its response to sexual abuse claims and the coverup by the Bishops. However, the cover-up can be largely laid at the feet of Bishops appointed by John Paul II or Benedict and not by those appointed by Francis, such as Cardinals Tobin and Cupich who have brought a breath of fresh air into the Church.
37
Don Viganò wants his ring kissed.
17
Priests are allegedly celebrate. There's no reason why they would ALL want to have chemical castration performed on each and every one before they are ordained. That would help keep them pure and their flocks from becoming sex crime victims. The Catholic church's management turned itself into as human traffic organization.
1
NYT, have you sunk to 'Yellow Press' standard? 3 days in a row in Headline Briefings!
Stop fueling the fire by gushing about this obvious intrigue.
13
Amen! Enough with the gleeful Catholic bashing.
7
As Jesus once taught the world: "When two or more are gathered in my name, you will have politics."He also said (didn't he?): Where power and wealth are involved, you will have corruption.
9
Sad dirty laundry by Viganò a former Vatican Nuncio who was expecting getting the Cardinal status but failed because of his dubious performance while in U.S. Pope Francis even didn't comment that lowly pseudo letter. It'll reverberate only inside the very conservative Catholic circles in U.S. And that's enough.
25
The Church played a major leading role in much of European history. But some constructive history was left out to reinforce arguments floated by enemies of the Church. Political infighting within the Church is old news - it is present throughout history.
Religion v. science is also often presented as evidence of the Church's intolerance of scientists and philosophers. The Church supported technology and scientists since the 16th century - http://www.vaticanobservatory.va/content/specolavaticana/en/who-are-we-.... .
The Spanish and Roman Inquisitions is a failure in tolerance lost to 'myth and legend':
"Edward Peters, a prominent historian in the field, ... states: The Inquisition was an image assembled from a body of legends and myths which, between the sixteenth and the twentieth centuries, established the perceived character of inquisitorial tribunals and influenced all ensuing efforts to recover their historical reality." Wikipedia
And:
"During the Holocaust, the Roman Catholic Church played a role in the rescue of hundreds of thousands of Jews from being murdered by the Nazis. Members of the Church, through lobbying of Axis officials, provision of false documents, and the hiding of people in monasteries, convents, schools, among families and the institutions of the Vatican itself, saved hundreds of thousands of Jews. The Israeli diplomat and historian Pinchas Lapide estimated the figure at between 700,000 and 860,000, although the figure is contested." Wikipedia
3
@Bob Aceti
Of course there is the context of the times and nuances to justifications that may have sometimes ameliorated some things, but the actual events of history speaks for itself.
And of course there were the cruel were not always given free rein, but the Inquisitions were misunderstood?
Tell that to the women and men who were tortured and burned to death.
A young woman, now considered a saint, was burned to death to appease factions allied with England, and many mystics now revered (women especially) were quite aware of keeping clear of the Inquisition's negative attention. I'm quite sure that fear was pervasive.
There is a difference between recognizing the context & complexity of history - and whitewashing.
1
My take on Vigano is too human and I am afraid I see nothing divine in him. He is a retired prelate who never made Cardinal and mutters that he coulda been a contender. Blames some gay cabal for stalling his career before he made it to the top echelon. Like Iago he plots against a Pope who seems too liberal and popular in an effort to take him down or at least weaken him.
Now in addition to my other reasons for being an ex-Catholic I can mention this letter which shows only a jealous and human desire to blame others for one's own failings, not any true concern for victims of abuse.
Francis has been Pope for five years. He is not blameless. Before that, when much of the abuse occurred and was uncovered in reports out of Boston and Philadelphia I don't remember ever hearing anything about a Papal Nuncio Vigano. Or his protests, He may have some valid points in his letter but a more thoughtful letter published in a neutral publication would have been a better way to make his point, whatever it is. And it was unnecessary to out members of the clergy he suspects of being gay.
This story needs a Shakespeare or Verdi to explain it to us. Douthat in The Times or Thiessen in today's WaPo don't really have the words.
22
So Bishops believe the Pope is the infallible voice of Christ...as long as they agree with what he says. If not, they call for his resignation. Ok, that's clear.
19
We can all thank God, Jesus was not a Christian and certainly not a Roman Catholic.
17
The Name of the Rose, volume number gazillion.
2
Gee, where did I store my college copy of Machiavelli?
19
Well, Malachi said this would be the last Pope. If he gets linked to this coverup disgrace directly, it could be the end of the Church as we know it....see what happens?....tell people they can now eat fish on Friday and it falls apart....
Sounds like a plot written by Ken Follett (Pillars of the Earth). Except the Church has had a thousand more years to sharpen the knives.
2
I do believe it is time for an excommunication. Like it or not the Pontiff is the supreme authority of the Roman Catholic Church. That is clear doctrine and really can't be challenged this man or his disillusioned followers. Simply put they are traitors to the Church and need to be purged immediately. I say this as someone who was raised Catholic, came back after a long absence, and then departed again because of the mounting sex abuse scandals. I have little faith in the Church these days but this effort to challenge the Pope is simply a farce.
15
A shoot the messenger article if ever I've seen one. Nothing wrong with the byzantine tottering institution and its male on male abuse. Just internal politics.
5
This person is with Bannon and his conservative cliq's efforts to take the Church back to the 15th century. Viva Francesco
23
Vigano is a desperate individual at the end of his career. Francis is what the Church desperately needs. Besides the social and environmental pastoral care he has initiated, he brought the Vatican bank up to international banking standards within a couple of years of his election. His mission is to return the Church to its roots.
33
Archbishop Vigano sounds like a seriously flawed spokesperson. For all the problems facing the Church, his negative and apparently unproven accusations are simply muddying the already turbulent waters.
The first-things-first issue is to get control over abuse and its perpetrators and even after that, there are basic changes to be made: abortion and celibacy policies just for starters.
6
This move by Archbishop Vigano comes as no surprise! The traditional Catholic hierarchy was shaken when Pope Benedict resigned and Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the Argentine cardinal originally from the Franciscan Order, was selected as the new Pontiff, Pope Francis. The new Pope moved quickly "clean-up" the Vatican, i.e. the business dealings of the Vatican Bank and its shady clients, and has been trying to make the Church more relevant in the lives of Catholics around the World. Pope Francis moved into a "normal" apartment in the Vatican and shunned the ostentatious lifestyle of previous Pontiffs.
Francis visits poor neighborhoods on a regular basis and even washes the feet of the sick and poor in St. Peter's Square.
I have 2 questions:
1) What is the true agenda of Archbishop Vigano and his "friends"?
2) Isn't the Pope "infallible"?
16
@Silvio M: Pope Francis was and is a member of the Jesuit order; he is not a Franciscan.
3
@Judith Testa Absolutely! My mistake!
1
@Silvio M The pope is infallible only when he speaks “ex cathedra.” That has only happened twice in history: 1855 when Pius IX announced the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (Virgin Mary was conceived without original sin on her soul) and 1950 when Pius XII announced the doctrine of the Assumption (Virgin Mary was taken to heaven body and soul.) No pope has been infallible at any other time except for those two instances.
By my court, the characters in this sordid tale are guilty of committing five of the Seven Deadly Sins - as well as related transgressions - lying, slander, backstabbing, the love of money and wiretapping.
It’ll make a great heartwarming movie, starring Steve Buscemi in the title role.
4
I thought the whole point of the church and its clergy was to practice and teach forgiveness, humility and love. I guess the nuns who taught me that got it wrong. I should have just spent my youth watching Dallas and Dynasty instead of going to church if I wanted to really understand how the church operates.
My husband and I left the Catholic church and all formal religion a long time ago. If you want to feel closer to the teachings of Jesus (or any prophet for that matter), it's better to just try everyday to practice kindness on your own. As long as so many continue to give these charlatans their hard earned money, the greed and corruption will continue.
10
Pope Francis appears ready to challenge the clericalism and its inherent abuse of authority that is so embraced by some in the traditionalists wing of Catholicism but also in the American hierarchy. Archbishop Vigano has shown he has an axe to grind apart from any legitimate criticisms arising from the current sex abuse scandals and breach of celibacy cover-ups (distinct problems). Thus, Vigano's assertions should be deemed suspect until proven. No doubt Vigano's outright insubordination in making public accusations to undermine the moral leadership of Pope Francis speaks clearly to Vigano's motives.
5
I'm going to just find a good drag show. They have more integrity. The outfits are the same but they have better hair.
12
I do not understand the behavior of Archbishop Vigano except that it seems that the far right wing of the "old" catholic church is using him as a hit man. No one who has watched and listened as Pope Francis ministers to the world would ever consider calling for his resignation. He is mortal, as we all are. Flawed at best like all humans, but never in my lifetime has there been a more thoughtful, gentle, loving, non-judgmental and articulate Pope for the people. I'm tired of people forgetting they are flawed also and wanting to always "throw the baby out with the bath water." I love this Pope and believe that Archbishop Vigano has more soul searching to do before he writes his next letter.
18
In all your discussion of the Cardinal’s possible personal and political agendas you never ask (as you surely would if it was Pres. Trump rather thab a Pope you have praised in numerous articles) whether or not his charges are true.
6
@Martin Wiener
Indeed, if one relates every event to the supposed victimization of Donald Trump. The character of each man does seem to bias one's acceptance of accusations. One of the weird aspects of this is that the accuser himself is likely guilty of the crime.
1
Vigano's political agenda it's an expression of the more retrograde faction of the Vatican. From the beginning this faction has tried to depose Francis for ideological and political reasons.
11
I have read this letter, and I think it was a giant mistake to put the issue of the so-called "homosexual currents" in it. What Francis is being accused of covering up is, at its core, consecrated persons who are breaking their vows and disregarding the commandments. Sexual preference is a separate issue and fundamentally irrelevant to that. This Archbishop Vigano is clearly a piece of work with a political agenda in addition to the stated one of personal conscience; I think the Pope is correct in not commenting on his letter, and what I would like to see him do is work on reforming the Roman Curia, which is the root of the careerism that causes this sort of controversy.
115
The latest Vatican intrigue should be the catalyst whereby millions of Catholics say goodbye and good luck to Rome. They need to head over to an Episcopal church that welcomes everyone, where women may be priests and where clergy may marry and be parents.
Anything less than total withdrawal from Rome by masses of Catholics condemns them to more generations of misery disguised as religious doctrine.
16
@Sad former GOP fan
The Episcopal church has all the good catholic stuff without the creepy priests. Thank you Henry the 8th.
7
@Sad former GOP fan
I personally would vote for atheism. And Pope Francis is the best thing that has happened to Catholic religion for 2000 years. only someone with his vision and his credo has a chance of salvaging the Roman Catholic Church from deserved extinction
3
Really? Google Bishop Johnson , the former Episcopal bishop of Boston, who committed suicide after being accused of sexual abuse
1
Catholics may consider allowing the clergy to marry and lead a normal life devoted to Jesus and His devotees . This may bring down the socially disturbing and probably unlawful activities ....
8
Viganò's ''testimony'' is a vile document, repeatedly equating homosexuality, or the advocacy of rights for LGBT people, with perversion and pederasty. If the Church wants to understand how it became a refuge for sexually stunted people, it should consider the ignorance and moralism in Viganò's attitude.
20
This disgruntled bishop reminds me of men portrayed on various TV miniseries about Middle Ages Europe, with their bloodthirsty ambitions and political maneuvering. They also equate homosexuality with pedophilia, a common myth that apparently hasn’t been explained to the Roman Catholic Church yet. I will keep them in my prayers.
10
Well done expose on a real creep in our midst. Vigano has read too many Dan Brown novels and fancies himself as a protagonist in a new one. He is, however, only an antagonist and a weak one at that. Off to Kentucky maybe to gay bash with Kim Davis?
15
What I have read is the Pick Up Line for Priests in the Church with unsuspecting Women was "He was going to Father Jesus Christ by impregnating them".
As with Oramosa:
~ Is the Johnny come lately butt spur Vigano antangonist of my otherwise pedophlia enabling opponent ~
my friend?
So, Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, the former Vatican ambassador to the US, made claims that Pope Francis and several American cardinals & archbishops had teamed up over the years to protect accused pedophile cardinal McCarrick - one of the most powerful figures in the US Catholic church.
But if Vigano was a former Vatican ambassador, why didn't make this same claim in public way back when he knew of the cover up and the pedophilia ? Only now he comes forth with a public statement ?
Strikes me of a power play. Greedy, ugly, blatantly obvious and sick power play. He shows no interest in the kids who were at the mercy of the pedophiles. Alas, he's proven himself to be just another perverted man in a frock. Perhaps among the worst of them, looking out for his own interests. One hopes that he will go where he hopes not to go, at the end of his miserable existence.
11
This guy certainly sounds brimming with Christian love!
18
While the Vatican descendants of the Borgias, de Medici's, Machiavellian practioners carry on with their hissy fits...their actions prove the Church is human and divine. Divine to overcome the humans who continue to ignore the actual meaning of the word Christian.
6
Hell hath no fury like a bishop scorned.
7
The Catholic church is such a giant corrupt mess. I don't understand why anyone would want to be associated with it. Two thousand years of pillage, murder, sexual predation, lies, greed. If there was a good, there would be no church.
3
@Roberto
But that's not all there is....look in the pews.
I think raping kids and covering it up makes for a valid grudge.
2
Politic rearing its ugly head.
1
Oh my heavens, what would Jesus do?
2
@Robert Hodge Between this sad, shameful mess in the Catholic church and our own right wing fundamentalist Christian hypocrits, I think Jesus would probably go back to his Jewish roots with shock and sadness at what has been wrought in His name.
5
The Pope needs to excommunicate this homophobic traitor and obviously corrupt Archbishop.
7
@Mary: That will never happen. The Catholic Church only excommunicates priests who dare to ordain women, which that institution sees as an infinitely more serious crime than the sexual abuse of children.
1
Conservative clergy don’t give a damn about child abuse. They just want to get rid of the guy who espouses the actual New Testament teachings of Jesus and treats gay people like human beings.
15
Viganò hates liberals or at least anyone he perceives as such.
That, in other words, means anyone who disagrees with him.
Frankly, he reminds me a lot of Joe McCarthy with his obsession with homosexual. The homosexuals rule the church, the homosexuals control everything, the homosexuals are the enemy within and so on.
Substitute the word Jews and you will have more understanding of this disturbed, hateful mind of Viganò.
Like Trump supporters, there are plenty more under the rock from which he has crawled.
Just imagine being a student, seminarian, parishioner who just wants some recognition as a fellow human, who must deal with him as your superior.
Speak of abuse.
22
Clearly a grudge. This is the man who gave cover and an invitation to see the Pope to Kim Davis; a woman who violated the responsibilities of her employment and the law claiming First Amendment protection. I’m not seeing where 16 words in the First Amendment transmogrifies into a license to nullify civil law protecting the general wellbeing of the people.
24
Most of the comments treat this episode as a political one in which a “conservative” is attacking a “liberal”, the implied underlying issue being the ethical status of homosexual acts, a subject bringing with it a set of familiar “conservative” and “liberal” attitudes. But before speculating about the subtext, why not first address the text? Viganò calls his document a “testimony”. It is customary to analyze testimony in terms of its truth claims. Viganò’s testimony is that he personally and unambiguously conveyed certain concrete information to Pope Francis. Now he either did or did not do this. Whether he did or did not does not depend upon whether he is a “conservative” or a “liberal” or whether he likes expensive wine or whether he is an amiable chap or any other irrelevancies raised in the comments. The Pope and other religious leaders frequently talk about “the dignity of every human person.” Why will the Pope not “dignify” Viganò’s very serious testimony with a response as forthright as the testimony itself? If the testimony is false it is a public lie of such extraordinary wickedness, and with such a potential for mischief, as to demand immediate refutation.
4
Don Viganò appreciates you support and fealty.
2
@John
Surely. And Vigano should answer for his own contribution to the scandal.
@John
Yes, as long as the one throwing the stones is innocent of the same crimes.
Petty settling of scores and homophobia will not lead the church out of this scandal although it certainly seems apiece with what they have done so far.
13
Just like almost everything else in life, the Catholic Church is all about politics and power. The Catholic Church as well as all other religious groups would be just fine if there just weren't people involved.
4
ABOLISH CELIBACY for the entire catholic clergy including the Pope, priests, & nuns
15
This is the Trump / Bannon cancer spreading across the globe. When Steve Bannon was dismissed from his 'advisory' position at the White House, he elected to travel to Rome to foment a Catholic mutiny against Pope Francis. Bannon met with archconservative Cardinal Raymond Burke, along with other influential Catholics in Vatican City who have been in opposition to the Francis papacy from day one.
Bannon has made a mission of supporting all the villains and despots around the world who will help to impose the kind of tyranny that he envisions for America. Bannon has befriended the likes of Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Harald Vilimsky and other admirers of the Trump doctrine.
The accusation against Pope Francis is nothing more than this weeks finest example of (excuse me) "fake news"!
27
Yes, Bannon is intent on destroying the governmental and religious institutions that provide stability to the world's democracies. True, reform is necessary, but it won't come from the chaos he is formenting.
2
@Jeffrey Pollack: BRAVO to you for making that vital connection!
1
It is always interesting those who spout tolerance, forgiveness, family values, righteousness, etc. seem to forget themselves.
I doubt the Archbishop has no stones that could be thrown his way as, it appears, sadly, too many in power in the Catholic Church do.
But let's not lose sight of one thing- EVERY member of the Vatican should be investigated for abuse. Do not limit this to only those being currently publicized.
Anyone within the statutes of limitations should be defrocked and turned over to local authorities for prosecution.
Anyone beyond the statute of limitations should be defrocked and registered as a sex offender in all countries that have such a registration. Their names should publicized.
Nobody suspected or worse, guilty, should be shuttled between parishes to commit this crime again.
This ongoing scandal can be viewed as an indictment against organized religion and abuse of that power. But it does not diminish those of faith who believe in their higher power and seek comfort and guidance.
3
Speaking strictly as a "non-practicing" Catholic, but one whose spirituality is entirely influenced by the genius of the SPIRITUAL tradition, if you lose Pope Francis, you will have lost the Church forever to a herd of reactionary authoritatians who wouldn't know a pastoral ministry if their eternal life depended upon it.
More practicing Catholics will certainly leave in disgust, and the world will react in absolute rejection at humiliating and eliminating this charismatic and pastoral Pope (who is not perfect IMO, a company man...but has a glimmer of compassion his detractors entirely lack!).
Removing this Pope, combined with the revelations of hierarchal protection of serial abusers...will leave this church isolated - it will be considered by most to be just another fascist-leaning leaning institution that is plaguing the world.
As such, the spirituality will die, it will die, in the miasma of hate with which will issue from it...
Forget any influence among people of good conscience around the world...they will avoid the church like a plague, while the only persons drawn to it will be the haters and those if the powerful who seek to make governments the arm of religious sanctions against gay rights, women's rights, and freedom of conscience for anybody but themselves.
22
@jaryn the church isn't "fascist leaning." It IS fascism. Check out what the church did in WWII. It's all you need to know. They weren't sorry either.
1
@rdscally
I was speaking in future tense.
The complex history of the institution certainly seemed to show authoritarian and cruel activities at times.
Despite a strong grudge at the patriarchal misogyny of the institution and its hierarchy, there has never been a question that the ideology/dogma is inherently fascist as we understand fascism. In fact, the faith based upon the New Testament is quite the opposite.
None of us including Francis is without sin. He needs to come clean, atone, and get on with the Church's business--unless his 'sins' are of the unforgiveable kind (like divorcing and remarrying, heaven forbid).
3
There are thousands of religions and only one god. Organized religion is for the mentally challenged who need strict instructions on how to worship god and live their lives. There is no excuse for the current atrocity in the Catholic Church, but it's wrong to blame it all on the current pope. My mother was a devout practicing Catholic and this type of scandal was just emerging in the church when she passed way. I'm glad she didn't live to see how strong and far reaching it would eventually become.
13
This article from "America" magazine notes the many inconsistencies and inaccuracies in Archbishop Vigano's letter. https://tinyurl.com/ybow39n5 Further, in 1986 the US Bishops adopted new and strong rules for how they would deal with allegations of sexual misconduct. Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) told bishops and cardinals they did not need to follow those rules, and promoted archbishops and cardinals who have become known as the most notorious. Archbishop Vigano was part of that and benefited from his support of the two previous Popes. Vigano was part of the problem.
25
@Tom Miller - How did the 1986 rules work out in the Archdiocese of Boston with Law and his protege, McCormack? It did not work out well! McCormack was his point man and did NOT apply the 1986 rules well! There were private monetary agreements and NDAs to stop any action against the Archdiocese. Some of those actions were the basis for SPOTLIGHT- the 2015 movie.
In 1998, McCormack was made the Bishop of the Diocese of Manchester, New Hampshire, my home diocese and hometown. He was not effectively dealing with age-old problems there and he was placed in the crosshairs by then-New Hampshire Attorney General (NH AG)Peter Heed. McCormack wanted to fight, but his diocesan lawyers advised him not to fight after NH AG Heed report on sexual abuse in the Diocese of New Hampshire was released. NH AG Heed had McCormack dead to rights. Thankfully in 2010 he retired.
1
There is an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer reporting about an interview with AG Shapiro. Without naming names he said that the the Vatican was certainly aware of the abuse. Before a priest can be relieved of his duties or defrocked the permission must come from the pope. The abuse investigated in Pennsylvania was from the middle 40's until the present. Francis, while not blameless, was responsible for about a five year period of that report.
@Bashh1 I will acknowledge that Pope Francis has been slower than most all of us would have liked in grasping the depth and depravity of the priest pedophilia scandal. However, the point I make, and reiterate, is that Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) told bishops and cardinals they could ignore the rules that had been agreed to, and promoted Cardinal Law and Cardinal McCarrick, and many more. Archbishop Vigano, as a the delegate from John Paul II and Benedict, was in the position to do something years ago. He did not. Now he wants to blame Pope Francis who fired him from his position as Papal delegate to the U.S.
Pope Francis needs to stay in his position. He is breathing the first bit of life into the Catholic Church in years. Vigano and others like him wish to take the Church back to hating people with whom they don't agree (homosexuals, those who seek abortion, etc.). Pope Francis has put the Church on a more forgiving path. Obviously, there are people both within and outside of the Church who wish to oust Francis. They feel threatened. But, Francis needs to stay and keep the Church on its new compassionate path.
34
This is an interesting and informative article. I'm not a Catholic but do admire Pope Francis. Reading this, however, the church hierarchy remind me of the "Christian" evangelicals who support our National Nightmare. All appear short of kindness and mercy, with a skewed moral compass. In the end, it's all political.
27
This sex scandle,bad as it is , pales next to the atrocities of the crusades and the inquisitions. In my view the big 3 religions have had their 2 thousand years to prove themselves and all have failed miserably. It's time for new paradigms to form
25
So my question and I am sure that the answer is yes. You Viganò know about the issue as well and why did you not do anything about this issue are you not also not part of the church hierarchy. Could you not also effect change.
27
"The enraged archbishop brought no evidence."
This reads like a disgruntled employee.
35
@Sarah: He didn't get a promotion he wanted. Boo hoo hoo.
2
In all of this, it's worth remembering that covering up priests' crimes was instituted in 1922 when Pope Pius XI issued his decree "Crimen Sollicitationis" (ref: "Potiphar's Wife", Kieran Tapsell), which came out of a period of anti-clericalism and therefore the Church would rather deal with these matters internally. This decree was reiterated by Popes right up until Francis. The idea was to prevent "scandal", i.e. disrepute of the Church. The internal mechanisms, including psychological counselling, failed miserably. We now understand that pedophilia may be incurable.
12
@czarnajama
It wasn't just the Catholic Church who sent perps to counselling. State institutions, schools, etc, etc did so as well. Thought it curable. But looked the other way when perps returned. The thing is, Church had better record keeping and did not destroy paperwork. Sadly, generations of children were abused in state schools for handicapped and adjudicated youngsters and nothing was ever done. Instead of the Blame Game we need to be hammering for prevention from abuse and for accountability. Mandatory reporting of sexual crimes against children was not put in place until late 1970's or even 1980's in some states. Society was complicit in so much abuse. For example, sending 10 year olds to jails for "wayward teens". What did the court system think was going to happen to these children???
5
I don't understand your headline, "The Man Who Took on the Pope," as if David vs Goliath. Vigano is no David! He is transparent in his lust for power and vengeance. His personal issues aside, he is a spear carrying conservative trying to bring down a Good Man - Francis - because of his liberal views and attempts to reconfigure the entrenched Curia. How about The Man Who is Attempting to Undermine the Pope or The Man Who is Twisted & Jealous Enough to Hurl Accusations at the Pope? Better headlines ... and more accurate ones.
49
Vigano was made a bishop by Pope John Paul II, whose charm masked his personal flaws (to be kind) and ambitions. What does it all prove? Simply that the institution propped up by the men of the Vatican over the centuries is no more 'Christian" than the Trump organization, when you come down to it.
26
Well, at least the Church is doing SOME good things in SOME parts of the world. I wish I could say the same for T.
10
Pope Francis must be getting close to exposing some important people in the US Catholic Church for them to pull a stunt like this. It really serves no other purpose than to deflect attention off themselves and onto the pope. The entire world knows that the pope hasn’t come down hard on pedophiles in the church, so that’s not the point of these accusations, is it?
24
@Skip Bonbright, you may be on to something. In 2014 after Francis was elected, he fired 4 of the 5 cardinals running the Vatican bank and within one year, reorganized the bank to meet international banking standards. Keep seeking!
2
@Skip Bonbright: "Pope Francis must be getting close to exposing some important people in the US Catholic Church for them to pull a stunt like this."
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Ummm, Vigano is Italian.
The reaction of my beleaguered wife - proud graduate of the Academy of the Holy Names, staunch, true Catholic and defender of the faith in our family ... "This is finally it ... if Francis goes, I go." And believe me, that says something powerful.
46
@Jerry Farnsworth
I'm with your wife!
2
@Jerry Farnsworth so true! If Francis goes my family goes too. The sad part, conservatives won’t care. They’re only interested in a small, narrow minded church.
2
@Jerry Farnsworth
Jerry, tell your wife she will not be alone.
As I watched the career of Pope Francis unfold I suddenly started to pay attention again to the church and its teachings. He made me feel that there was depth to Catholicism, resonance and understanding, and at last a pontiff whose focus was on the people, not on some rigid doctrine meant to control and repress its followers, but to embrace them, expand their souls, make them aspire to be more loving, inclusive, understanding. Make them want to be better people.
It has been like watching a blossom unfold to see what he has done.
Now, once again, we see the ancient church emerge, with its centuries of poisonous rumors, backbiting, struggles for power. Isn't it time for this to end or are we to be shackled with it forever?
44
@dutchiris;
You can stop the mess by refusing to put money in the plate!
Is this a pilot for a new season of 'The Borgias?'
Will he ever get his cardinal's hat? Reconcile with his brother? Nominate Kim Davis for sainthood? It would all be funny if there weren't so many real world consequences. Instead, it's just pathetic.
Meanwhile, after a youth of 6 a.m. mass, arriving with our family of ten even before the nuns, I get my eternal reward by sleeping in on Sunday mornings.
28
As a student in Catholic schools, I was taught the corporal works of mercy. Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, visit the sick and imprisoned among others. I always respected that my church did this and still does. All these current scandals are sickening to me. I am a fan of Pope Francis but feel that whoever was involved in cover up must resign. These scandals show abuse of people and corruption of power. Let’s get back to our important mission of helping those in need.
70
@Loretta DeLorenzo
The church's central mission is to bring souls to Christ. If it fails that through flagrant disobedience - see Mt 18:6 - then there is nothing more (not charity, not ritual adminstration of sacraments) to be said. I say this with a sorrowful heart.
1
@Loretta DeLorenzo
Without Pope Francis, in my opinion, I think we are dead as a church. If Vigano and his hateful ilk win, the world loses. Francis has been burdened with cleaning up centuries of mess and he is an old man. Most people his age are in nursing homes. Yet, he forges on, trying to put justice and mercy at the forefront, rather than power, position and personal glory. The corrupt curia does not like what he is trying to do. His task of cleansing the Church of its clerical sins is monumental. Lets not make it harder by getting hung up on the hateful criticism of one petty man.
10
@Rahel
I thought it was "whatsoever you do to the least of these" not "whatsoever soul you save."
This infighting is very embarrassing for the Catholic Church and they do not need any more scandal then they have already experienced within the last few weeks. It sounds as though the Church is in disarray and no one is in control.
Children's livelihoods and other victims have been ruined forever due to this horrid sexual abuse and this must be their main concern. They must get to the bottom of who knew what and when and who is responsible for allowing this to fester for so long. The members of the Church who covered up these offenses should be defrocked and punished. No more abuse must be tolerated. Ever.
The Church needs some adults to get to the bottom of this and maybe they need an independent lay council to find the truth. They must demand answers. The people are the future of the Church and they cannot afford any more scandal. As a Catholic, I am very embarrassed by all this infighting. Who will take us seriously anymore?
6
Having been raised in a devout Catholic family, I’m familiar with the culture and the ongoing culture wars within the Church hierarchy. It has always been disturbing and frightening to me that so many of these so called conservative Catholics equate pedophile priests with gay men simply because most of the victims of the abuse are male children. This is willful ignorance.
Also, can we please stop referring to this as a “sex-abuse” scandal? This always was and is a child assault and rape epidemic and should be described as such and certainly treated as such by our criminal justice system. Describing this as a “gay problem” is a way for Church conservatives to frame this shameful issue as a problem of internal culture to be dealt with internally, separate from external law enforcement.
31
Did Archbishop Viganò include John Paul ll and Benedict XVl in his accusations? Archbishop Viganò, who himself has been accused of hindering a sexual misconduct investigation in Minnesota, known for his short temper and ambition, is not a follower of Jesus.
31
This goes to show that, even those who may have had clean motives at the beginning, are not invulnerable to power, money, fame, etc. I wonder how many of these guys go back and read relevant sections of the Bible after they’ve become a bishop or a cardinal.
13
It's all politics. None of them are talking about Jesus Christ or what he taught and died for. It's hard to think about how they took the message of the gospel and turned it into this.
50
Wondering, why do conservatives always debase situations? Take this Vigano letter for example. It sets forth intrigue worthy of House Of Cards. Conservatives seem to ignore God and pursue human control of the mundane. Conservatives are all about power and control of things for their self gratification. Liberals in contrast seek the improvement of the common weal, helping humankind.
50
The Catholic Church still clings to the idea that they are judge and jury, and can usurp those functions. They cannot and should not. Call in the civil authorities when laws are broken and let police investigation take its course. Right now the Church must turn over their offenders to the authorities. After the house cleaning, those authorities are notified immediately. This is the only way to clean up this horrific mess and keep it that way.
24
@KyCedar So true! As I read these I keep asking myself where the civil authorities are in each story. Let them deal with the crimes, and keep the petty internal politics lead where it may.
Lots written of late about the Catholic Church. Discussions with everyday main street folks consensus seems to be, the Catholic Church of course will survive, but in some new reduced scale of size and influence. Primarily dependent on Latin America, and new membership in Africa.The reduction of influence and money in the US will take time . Europe reduction in members is to be watched.Most folks expect no changes to their rules.
4
@Dan Green
Maybe so, but the loss will be significant, as the hidden spiritual thread, the spiritual genius of Catholic spirituality, becomes debased and ruined in the miasma of reactionary authoritarianism that will repel much of the world...it's not likely Latin America will terate it much longer, and Africa nor forever. The impoverishment of those continents contrasted with the conspicuous wealth and kavk of compassion of such hierarchs as Vigrano, will be as obvious and the rejection of the formerly Catholic nations.
3
Many heads need to roll in the church.
Viganò and his regressive ilk need to be among the first to go.
The LAST thing the church needs is more dark ages thinking.
36
Male hierarchy in complete chaos. Why is this pettiness sounding so familiar? Another gigantic debacle ignoring the members...
20
Vigano is a disgruntled former "employee" who is trying to get revenge. It's a shame he can't act as a man of God and work to protect children. That's why he was "fired".
41
@Millie Bea If his allegations are true and Pope Francis is complicit in the coverup, isn't exposing this information about protecting children and acting as a man of God?
2
@Julie
Surely, if the one throwing stones is himself innocent of the same crimes. The motivation of the accuser matters, and this accuser clearly has an agenda separate from the scandal of hierarchy's secretive self-protection. If Francis has to go, so does Vigano. Better yet, replace the hierarchy with lay governance.
Bloodthirsty opportunism.
I’m no fan of Pope Francis (or the Vatican, for that matter), but he does seem to be making an attempt to address some of the damages done by the Church; even while fending off politicking saboteurs in the process.
32
Where is the outrage? Why do I keep hearing "we are waiting for the church to respond" We should be marching in the streets.
I propose an open ended financial boycott by parishioners for as long as it takes the church to hand over ALL guilty parties to civil authorities for trail and sentencing.
11
@WMA A financial boycott would only hurt the hospitals, schools, charities and missions they support.
7
@Julie
You imply these institutions are indiscipensible to public service, and in some areas thathas been allowed to occur.
But those Catholic institutions that receive government contracts may refuse, as one hospital did recently to a loved one, to honor a request for a tubal ligation for a woman who does not share their beliefs?
Not saying those institutions don't do some good, and have made themselves indispensable in some areas - to the detriment of the full range of healthcare to their customers who aren't bound by their rules.
And, tell me, how does a Catholic "charity" -that accepts public-funded contracts - treat a gay person who is sent for counseling, or a gay couple wanting to adopt a child?
Seems to me that the "need" is reversed here: public money is necessary to these religious institutions. but we have allowed those hospitals and services to be the only choice for the public, which means the church may impose its rules upon the those they claim to "serve". This must be remedied.
@Julie I lived in Boston when the first allegations of child abuse came to light, and at that time a group of accountants set up an organization to run the many Catholic charities, promising to the donors that none of the money would go to the church, only to the charities. It worked, and managed to keep the soup kitchens, etc., afloat that many homeless depended on, while cutting out the church. They should have continued, in my opinion... but is can work.
I think that what we are finally seeing is a window into a certain aspect of the development of a profession over two thousand years. By its rules and style, since the beginning, it has - perhaps unintentionally - "selected" for individuals who might have the inclinations that now surface rightly as scandals. The idea that this is a problem that developed in the 20th century is almost laughable. If, as a male from the early Middle Ages onward, you had "certain predilections," what profession would you likely have gravitated toward? And so it went, and so it goes. I mean, really . . .
23
Vigano sounds like the Vatican's version of Trump. A vindictive individual who will not let any sense of decency and integrity stand in his way. He probably knew more about clerical sexual abuses than Francis ever did but like Trump he accuses his opponent of his own misdeeds.
67
My guess Vigano doesn't believe in the infallibility of the pope which is one of the two basic tenets of the roman catholic church along with it being an apostolic and universal church.
14
@jay
No, Papal Infallibility is NOT one of the "two basic tenets of the Church". It was only established by Vatican I in 1870. Rather late in the day to be a basic tenet of a 2,000 year old institution
7
@jay writes: "the infallibility of the pope which is one of the two basic tenets of the roman catholic church"
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That's nonsense. Infallibility was formally introduced by reactionaries in the late 1800s and has only been invoked once. It can hardly be considered a basic tenet, let alone one of two. (And contrary to popular belief and stereotype, it doesn't apply to everything the pope says, only doctrinal issues.)
It would be good if this canard were put to rest once and for all.
6
@Pundit didn't go to catholic school did ya? The infallibility of pope has been around since the religion was founded it just wasn't made dogma until Vatican I. It's the Catholics way to link St. Peter of the bible to the pope of Rome. In fact, many of the protestant churches founded in the middle ages specifically state as part of their dogma that the pope of Rome is not infallible.
But I digress since Vigano entered the church well after 1870 maybe he should join a different church. Perhaps the evangelical church of Trump and maybe the God, trump, will make him pope.
2
I had forgotten about Kim Davis, the Kentucky county clerk, who has married 4 times.
Vigano should have been concerned about the sexual abuse of children in his church rather than inserting himself into a legal/political situation.
73
@Henry Wilburn Carroll The church is universal- not confined to ones own parish. If he has this information and didn't come forward with it, he would be complicit in ongoing harm.
4
@Julie
That has no validity if Vagano was complicit in bearing false witness, using false information.
It especially has no validity if he is using the "information" for personal vengeance and ambition.
This is a simple story of blind, selfish ambition by Vigano using this disastrous controversy of clerical sexual abuse to self-promote and settle old scores.
Clerical sexual abuse, moving clerical pedophiles to a different parish, homosexuality, sexually active heterosexual clergy is an old a story as the one about the "birds and the bees".
There is no panacea that will cure this problem. But one movement of reform would be to use science to better understand human sexuality and return to a married clergy - a state of clerical service that was in effect for the first 1,000 years of the Church's existence. How in the name of God did we unlearn what the ancients knew?
62
@Robert G. McKee You don't think these same sins exist within persons of married families?
3
@Julie
Certainly they do.
Which makes it all the more necessary for the training of sexually mature people, men and women, become priests, choosing celibacy or family as they are called.
It's more likely clergy and hierarchy that have children will be less concerned with protecting their prestige/reputation/influcence than with protecting children from abuse.
Thank you, New York Times, for the article and clarifying why
I left the Catholic Church.
30
@Jim Franco Why did you leave the church? The Catholic Church contributes more good to this world than any other single entity- with its hospitals, charities, schools, missions, food banks... why wouldn't you want to be part of that while also delving into scripture and prayer and the Eucharist each Sunday at the Mass? That is what church is all about.
3
@Julie
While accepting public contracts, and denying care to the nonCatholic public that do not share the church's taboos.
Small wonder I choose to go for a walk in the woods on Sunday mornings rather than going to church.
30
@Jack Frederick. What are you accomplishing walking in the woods? Get back in church and pray for her and for each other. Listen to scriptures and partake in the sacrifice of the Mass for the forgiveness of sins. Instead of walking away- stay and make it better, while feeding your soul with the Word and Eucharist. That is the church.
2
@Julie “I would rather be driving my Volkswagen and thinking about god than sitting in church thinking about my Volkswagen.”
2
@Julie
That is utterly tone deaf.
Why would you insist people disregard the proven corruption of an institution's hierarchy to follow your spiritual practices?
Do you believe those practices are the sole means to heaven? That claim was abandoned, remember?
Besides, a walk in the woods is exactly where many people find the Spirit in all Her ineffable Oneness, refreshed to again encounter the idiocies of human contact.
Another Vatican intrigue. Cardinal Vigano does not deserve the title he bears. And should be fired from his position. Not because he opposes Pope Francis, but because he betrays his obligations as a priest and continues to break his promise as a priest to teach and follow the Ten Commandments. One of those is to "not bear false witness against your neighbors". The Fourth Commandment.
He is not a proper leader for Catholics to be led by, as are a lot of the Cardinals who represent the Church.
This latest scandal to come out in Pennsylvania seems as if we are still at the tip of the iceberg of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church.
Thanks to Mr. Tosatti and his conscience for telling us how this letter came about and the real reasons behind it.
36
@Jean writes: "Cardinal Vigano does not deserve the title he bears."
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He doesn't deserve it, because he doesn't bear it. He's only an archbishop. If you read the article, you'll note that some attribute his actions to revenge for NOT having been named a cardinal.
2
I found it interesting that Vigano’s own brother called him a liar, saying that he even lied to Benedict, the conservative pope he supposedly favors over Francis. Yikes. I get that whistleblowers rarely have pure motives, but the ones whose credibility is compromised this severely usually need to come bringing documents or other proof of their claims in order to be taken seriously enough for a newspaper to blast their claims out to millions of readers.
109
This morning I "Googled" "How do I officially l" and Google finishes it by "...eave the Catholic Church". Second is "How do you officially lose your virginity". Metrics, go figure!
23
Meanwhile 800 million people, half of them children, are starving every day. We all have known about if for some time, and we are not doing a lot about it. Should we all resign?
Abuse is important, and other problems are important too. Some of them the Pope is in charge, some of them we are.
27
@Freedom Fry
BRILLIANT. Thank You!!!
1
Vigano appears to be an ambitious person with quite a gift for making enemies of clerics and then scheming to act out against them, including lying (about his brother's health) when convenient. Among those on his hit list would be Francis, as evidenced by the Kim Davis fiasco. Given this pattern of behavior, and Vigano's apparent anger over losing his Vatican apartment, some corroboration would seem to be necessary for his story to be believable. Vigano's mere word isn't enough, given his questionable credibility.
58
I was delighted to hear that when the devil Nunes showed up in Britain and wanted to speak to the secret service of England, they did not give him the time of day. They realized he was nothing but a fool who because of his political ambitions doesn't care if he exposes people whose names do not need to be known England said Enough is enough of meanness and stupidity by politicians.
Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano is not a young man who doesn't know better. He is full of hate and worried about his status. What has he done besides acting like Nunes.
With all of the sex scandals going on in the United States from the churches, yeshiva's to the universities, to the schools, the list is endless. The world is involved in massive cover ups and since the United States allowed this to happen in our own churches, we need to look at the progress the Church has been making and work with them beside throwing rocks that they are not working fast enough.
Yes, it is slow but steady and the hate of Archbishop will put the church back three hundred years. The Archbishop better start getting his soul in order when he meets his maker. He wont be able to run to the newspaper and say God is not worthy to be God.
40
Vigano sounds like a homophobic creep. He may, however, be right that Francis knew awhile back about all this.
Francis, of course, may not have known.
But he knows now!
Francis, to have any moral authority, must immediately begin to turn over accused sex offenders to police, along with those who protected them by looking the other way or by giving them job transfers. Let them be judged by the criminal system. NO MORE JOB TRANSFERS!
Then Francis must use the full wealth and power of the "church" to fight to end statutes of limitations which let many of these monsters off the hook. They belong in jail, not just in a new parish.
Until he does that, Francis is just another enabler of the rape of children. Until he does that, the "church" remains a corrupt, diseased monolith interested NOT in God's work or caring for its flock, but interested only in self-preservation.
27
I find it creepy that Vigano seems to want to blame all church child abuse scandals on gay priests and purge them. For thirty years conservative Popes & Cardinals have stoked the culture wars and told Catholic critics demanding they take responsibility for complicity in hiding abuse to sit down & shut up. I hope this comes back to bite them.
47
I am not surprised by what I have just learned about Vigano from this article, and he is no Machiavelli, just a liar and a troublemaker full of spite. When his attempts at manipulating Pope Francis came to nothing but a loss of his job coupled with the fact that he didn't make cardinal he went 'papal postal'.
The Conservatives want to pick and choose who can belong to the Catholic Church which is the whole problem.
His efforts at self-aggrandizement and personal drama, as we are supposed to envision a besieged Vigano slipping from doorway to doorway in Rome alleys to avoid detection, turn my stomach. He should be going from doorway to doorway to do good works for others not himself. That is the message of Jesus and the ministry of Pope Francis.
87
Does the public ever get the full story from the get-go? This one begins with an Archbishop taking a daring stand by announcing corruption in the form of scandalous behavior gone unpunished. Then, oh no, the same Archbishop is painted as a sullen, revenge-seeking third-rater who is out to embarrass the saintly Papa. This doesn't change the fact that the Church is a multi-national corporation looking always to enhance its coffers and to cover up the sordid behavior of its members that is the consequence of the appalling and unnecessary demand for celibacy from its priests. My guess is that most of these bishops keep Machiavelli and not St. Francis in their prayers and meditations.
17
@Gilin HK It's not binary - can be both correct
3
They’re all guilty. Anyone who was an insider of the Roman Catholic Church was either a sexual predator or enabler. Otherwise, why was it such an open secret to the rest of us?
16
Can't say I'm surprised about the revelations in this article. These kinds of high crimes and misdemeanors have been going on since the establishment of the church - and doubtless go on in all organized forms of religion, especially the big three - the bigger and richer the bureaucracy the more internal fighting for power -sex, money, position - all the temptations We read every other day about scandals and sexual abuses in these pages.
Not a lot of difference between these religious figures and most of congress either.
For the most part I figure that anyone who has managed to get to the top tiers in either the the church or congress is already compromised, whatever might have been their original intentions.
14
We seem to be quick to portray this as a political fight. Instead of retreating to our ideological corners, perhaps we should focus on determining the veracity of the accusations since the implications are rather important.
15
@Dan
Yes, the veracity of both the accuser and the accused.
The Catholic Church, along with all other long-standing male dominated hierarchical institutions, has well-known problems with sexual abuse, child abuse and covering up the problems. The abuses are systemic, not systematic.
The severity of the problems is a function of size, age of institution, and rigidity of the institution.
Who would I trust to address the problems better in the Catholic Church - Pope Francis or Archbishop Viganò? Easy answer. Pope Francis.
Viganò is an archconservative, upset with Pope Francis’ stance on the poor and immigrants. He would be the last person to institute needed reforms.
And his letter, timed to inflict maximum damage to the Pope, smacks of the dirty tricks we see too often in American politics. In fact, isn’t Steve Bannon a friend of this Archbishop?
105
@Rita Actually, I think the roots of the sexuality problem lie in the Church's beginnings under the Roman Empire. The ancient Egyptians had it much better figured out, but the Greeks and Romans had gross inequality and slavery as well as unpredictable bouts of terror and oppression which left their mark on subversive Christianity. Today, we have totally different circumstances, with a very different human life cycle, and the structures needed for human survival when infant mortality was near 50% are certainly not those needed when it's under 1%. The traditionalists are completely out of it, and Pope Francis has made the first tiny steps in recognising that it's a different world than it was only a century ago.
4
I also see the influence of Newt and Calista Gingrich in this controversy. Just a coincidence that they’re at the Vatican when this ultra-conservative hit job takes place? This kind of unsubstantiated smear is their specialty.
11
It seems like gay hysteria is being used as a smoke screen for more troubling issues, including church leaders who seem more concerned about their own status, power and money (what happened to vows of poverty, chastity and obedience?) than about actually leading the people in Christian life. I wonder how some of these Cardinals and Bishops had time to think about the needs of the people, as they were involved in political machinations within the church.
37
The vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience are made by nuns, not priests. Depending on the order, priests can accumulate as much wealth as they desire. Nice, isn’t it?
8
@Tom I assume that you have never attended an ordination, or you would certainly have heard the vows of chastity and obedience that are part of the ceremony. The obedience vows are especially hard to miss, as the candidate kneels before the Bishop and places his hands between the bisop’s hands, while making them.
2
@JM
While we're talking about homophobes, why does Joy Reid still have a job at MSNBC?
She wrote horrid, homophobic statements on her blog, but MSNBC, along with its on-air hosts, remained silent, or even supported Reid.
MSNBC and its hosts have rightly called out hate speech--including hate speech from the past. If they let Reid off the hook, they lose the moral authority to condemn hate speech from anyone in the future.
3
What concerns me about the present situation relates to a key question that we’re not hearing about: What were the roles of the present pope’s two predecessors, Benedict XV1 and now Saint John Paul vis-a-vis the dreadful sexual abuse of children when they were in office? Bluntly put, were they unaware of allegations of this abuse, and if they were—and its hard to believe they weren’t—-what did the hey do about it? Truth and justice surely demand an answer.
39
Oh, come on! The timing of this desperate effort to smear Pope Francis is just too much. Just when “the people of God” are demanding that church leaders step aside and submit to the laws of or land, suddenly now is the time to implicate the first pope who has moved the Church forward.
All of these perverted crimes are borne out of a culture that has fostered a gross abuse of power by its hierarchical structure. Whether the crime was child rape, OR adult sex parties at the boss’s beach house! It is beyond time for this church to root out the anti-sex, anti-women conservative wing. True, Pope Francis likely knew of his political foe, McCarrick’s sexual harassment of seminarians. Does it mean he agreed with it? No. Is it likely that he knew he was navigating an internal political mess? Probably. My hunch is that the US conservative Catholic bishops (who support the GOP) are scarred to death that all their crimes are going to be exposed. This is a desperate attempt to smear Pope Francis to halt the progressive movement that Vatican II was actually meant to be.
113
Thank you!!!
13
@Kelly
I had hopes for Francis, but they are fading.
With every day he lets pass without turning rapists--and those who protected them--over to police, he becomes part of their criminal acts. He becomes guilty himself, just another stalling apologist.
Let him fight with the wealth of the church, starting TODAY, to end statutes of limitations that let these creeps off the hook. Then I can start to be hopeful about him again.
5
Well the Trump phenomenon has finally reached the Vatican--and as always with this phenomenon it involves sex---if this plays out, surely there will be a Michael Cohen fixer and a Manafort money man. In some ways I feel sorry for the Pope---who appears to be a decent man attempting to change the course of the Catholic church---but, all those bureaucratic moves to hide monstrous behavior appear to have finally revealed what they really were all about---an institutional cover-up of monumental proportions. And really, what can you do now to restore any form of legitimacy to this church and this faith???
21
@ACJ
This isn't actually NEW news....we have already known for awhile that RCC hierarchy routinely covered up abuse and moved abusive priests to other unsuspecting parishes. This is being revealed across the world, and in a few places - Australia - they are being FULLY investigated. The Pennsylvania Grand Jury report brought it into the public spotlight by giving a full report of the extent of it within six parishes. Perhaps people are reacting to the extent of the abuse and coverup and not to the fact of it, but the legitimacy of the hierarchy should have been questioned long before this. The fact that is apparently has not been questioned points to successfull PR campaigns.
Still, I would hesitate to say that the legitimacy of the hierarchy and the legitimacy of the church are necessarily synonymous. If one believes, and sees one way in practice, that the church is the PEOPLE, not the hierarchy.
This Archbishop might be looking to fill the Popes position but in reality he will need to be in the wave of resignations that will need to happen. He knew about the several hundred children bodies that were found in a former run Catholic un wed mothers home septic system in Taum, Ireland. Plus the thousands of American abused kids and adults. The officials need to close the Catholic Church down and stop letting them to continue to damage the world psyche. For 2,000 years the men have controlled this and this is the best it got to be. Very sad.
18
Pope Francis is the best thing to happen t the Catholic Church in decades and the conservative wing of the Church wants to silence him...it is Pope Francis and his security detail who should be concerned.
Like fundamentalists of every religion, Vigano and his community of power mongers want to keep the Church a white male dominated institution in which they wield power, influence and attain wealth.
Long live Pope Francis and his Papacy!
135
@JoKor
....and I hope his security detail includes a food 'taster', as a preventative to the Borgias preferred method of dealing with their 'enemies'!
1
@JoKor; God Bless JoKor; I could not agree more!
1
@shirls
Yep. Remember poor old Pope John Paul the FIRST! Mysteriously "died in his sleep" after two months in the papacy and trying to reform the Vatican Bank and curia. Look it up if u don't know about this.
1
The Pope himself possibly involved in hiding abuse. Network of homosexual in the ranks of the Catholic church, networks of priests abusing children and networks of those protecting them for 40-50 years.
This was and quite possibly is going on right now all over the world.
Is the Catholic church fit for purpose?
Visit the Vatican, even the minimal amount of art and treasure they have on display are preposterous, but this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to treasure in their vaults.
Why are they not helping the poor? Is this the function of the church, to sit on possibly hundreds of billions of wealth and not help those in need?
17
@PaulDirac
Only 40-50 years? Hmmmm that may be an understatement.
Wealth on display in the Vatican? There are many "Churches" that are wealthy beyond belief.
I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ but I have a very hard time with Christian Dogma. Be it Catholic or other so called Christian teachings some of these are horrifying and the results are appalling.
8
Hey, here’s an idea. Let’s have the civil authorities in the US investigate claims of sexual abuse, aka assault and rape, and then, get this, arrest the perpetrators and put them on trial. One after another after another. And if church leaders are found to have conspired to conceal these crimes, then, you guessed it, arrest them, too. Monsignors , bishops, archbishops, and cardinals. These men might think their religious status protects them in the US. They would be wrong.
This might not address the 1000s of cases of historical abuse, but going forward it will let American children and their families understand that they are not alone and will be listened to.
52
@Matt Agree. Prosecute all abusers of children, as well as those who prey upon pre and post adolescents.
And homosexuality, a status that bestows all kinds of societal and cultural immunities in a way that only a certified victimhood classification can, will be no defense.
And after we've cleaned out the Church, no, WHILE we are cleaning out the Church, let's also do something about the moral cesspool that is Hollywood, where the abuse of minors is ritualistic, and also those among the ranks of Tribunes of the People in Washington who are guilty of the same.
3
@Frank McNamara
Yes! Let's have a good old fashioned witch hunt, and burn the gays, the clerics, the politicians, and the entertainers!
What could possibly go wrong!
1
"Worried for his own safety," tells me everything I need to know about Steve Bannon's own Prince of the Church.
Unless he has evidence, I will assume Vagano has just tried to use other people's tragedy and pain to advance his own warped cause. He is certainly not demonstrating compassion for the victims of clergy abuse. He's showing us his soul.
143
Time to raise the bar and get men the heck out of positions of power where they deal with the vulnerable (children and women).
22
To borrow from Eric Hoffer, this is the temper of the time, when two wrongs don't make one right. Have the Catholic Church done any coverups in at least the past half a century? You bet you. It didn't start with Pope Francis or Benedict or even John Paul. Some of my relatives are Catholic and I heard them gossip about so-and-so got shipped out because of scandalous behavior back in the 1960s!
But is this Viganò a reformer? Quite the opposite! Had he had any conscience at all, he would have brought it up with Benedict or John Paul etc. Or maybe he did. So why then is he singling out Francis for ouster?
More importantly, just because one's official stance is conservative doesn't mean one is exempted from scandalous behavior. Quite the opposite, if politics is the guide, some conservatives are the worst abusers and perps.
Pope Francis, if he really means to be transparent and want to clean house, this may be the time to get rid of both the perps and reactionary forces in one fell scoop
46
@Bos
All this goes back farther than the 1960s. My late father was a Mass State Trooper in the 1930s and arrested a notorious pedophile priest. But there was a call from the Chancel in Boston and the priest was allowed to walk free and the Troopers were told that they never saw anything and to forget about the whole incident. While my father remained a daily Communicant, he told us to 'never listen to the old men in the long robes'
18
My response to the question of my religion will always be: "I was brought up Catholic." I do not identify with this evil cabal that cares only about its reputation, which is now sullied beyond repair. It is a shame that most of the guilty will never pay for their sins unless there is an afterlife that includes hell. There should be no statute of limitations for abusing helpless children and young adults.
22
The event itself is unfolding. NYT readers, on the other hand, seem to be mapping scandal landscapes to connect Vatican to Mr. Trump. As for me, mining must be the thing. You know, like data mining or cryptology or cartography and so on? A piece of good writing holds a lot of mined information. Does it not so? The word, “backstabbing”, incidentally caught my attention. Is it just an expression, it is not? The archbishop’s true privilege is now revealed as being able to hide himself from the eye of the world. That may be also be a Vatican luxury.
3
This is a moment of truth for the Catholic Church and its frozen-in-time conservative leaders. We are already losing many of the young due to the church’s unyielding positions on women, gay marriage and contraception. What the sclerotic leaders view as timeless truth, the young see as irrelevant to their lives and to those of their friends.
This may be the last chance the church has to get it right in protecting its worshippers and making its teachings more relevant to contemporary society. We have a remarkable Pope and some truly impressive new Bishops to build upon. If this opportunity is lost, a 2000 year tradition which has done incredible good, will slide into oblivion, hastened by the machinations of Vigano, Burke and their media partners.
44
Such a paragon of the virtues upon which the daily office is supposed to help meditate. Humility is one that comes to mind.
12
Vigano is the known leader of a conspiracy against Francis but he's in a Catch 22 situation here. If his unsubstantiated charges are correct then he also indicts himself because he also knew about the cover ups and said nothing in public despite being in a powerful and visible office as the Papal Nuncio in the US which ideally positioned him to speak out. He can't have it both ways.
196
@John
As I've read reams of replies to Douthat's column yesterday and now this report, there's one part of Vigano's behaviour while U.S. Ambassador that I think is being missed.
The priests,bishops,archbishops, cardinals all essentially swear fealty to the Pope as a condition of their incardination. In other words, the Church organization is a 'closed' one where complete obedience to the man above the man obeying is the order of the day. One does what they are told. When noting Vigano shut down the investigation of the Minneapolis Abp, or any other investigations into sordid abuse scandals, this aspect of relationship in governing ranks of the Church is well kept in mind. That Vigano has done what he's done now, despite his motives about which we surmise, is beyond surprising. No wonder he's gone into hiding.
And, lest readers think the abuse scandals began 50-60 years ago, as another reader wrote, they are as old as Methusula. Difference is, we know about them now.
4
@nola73
People swear fealty to all sorts of things. The President has sworn fealty to the constitution (haha); German army offices swore fealty to Hitler. It's at what point personal morality trumps these oaths and surely this is doubly so in a Christian religion. I've got no particular brief for the Catholic Church or Francis but Vigano is clearly engaged in a political vendetta and he's essentially accusing Francis of a dereliction of duty of which he himself is also guilty. Probably even more so since he was resident in the US for years and thus closer to the US scandals and undoubtedly aware of the cover up. How could he not be they were being covered in the press around 2005.
6
If as early as 1998 Archbishop Vigano's position allowed him to learn about abuses associated with Cardinal McCarrick, why was he silent for twenty years? And why too has he himself a record of covering up sex abuse in the Church. Whenever Pope Francis may have learned of particular sexual abuses in the American Church, Vigano was in the know before Francis was.
This entire sordid episode has all of the qualities of an ideological conflict between Church progressives and Church traditionalists--further poisoned by one churchman's frustrated ambitiousness, Vigano appears to have weaponized the Church's sex abuse scandal in order to obstruct the efforts of a reform-minded Pope.
The Kim Davis stunt Archbishop Vigano sprung on Francis last year is all one needs to know about Vigano's character.
431
Another possible reason: the latest three pontiffs were Polish, Austrian, and Argentinian. Many Italian Cardinals think only Italians should rise to lead the Church, and work to undermine the others.
1
@Dr. O. Ralph Raymond
The Kim Davis stunt Archobishop Vigano inflicted upon Pope in 2015 at the Apostolic Nunciature in Washington is all one needs to know to assess Vigano’s character, motivations, machinations. Kim Davis’ presence at Vigano’s house, since he was the nuncio then, was anything but disingenuous. It was treacherous. It intended to embarras the pope. It almost ruined a historic visit to the United States. In January 2016 Vigano turned 75. By canon law bishops should turn in their resignation. In April he got the pink slip. It embittered him further. Did he think he’d get away with it? This is a second coup d’ tat. Another historic trip, to Ireland. John paul went in 1979. And, in 1978 John Paul the first died suddenly, in September. He was pope 33 days. He also wanted to clean the church.
1
The author writes:
"But when news of decades of widespread clerical abuse in Pennsylvania broke, Mr. Tosatti urged the archbishop to tell his story."
This statement asserts that the accusations in the Grand Jury report have been proven.
This is false, and reporters are generally concerned to avoid falsehoods. Journalistic standards, and fairness, demand the words "widespread alleged abuse". Clumsier, but sometimes justice should overrule aesthetics.
However, beginning with #MeToo, we have been overtaken by the practice of accepting claims as proven.
We shall look back on this as shameful.
We have two courses ahead of ourselves with this story.
We can, coolly and with care for the evidence, move to determine just what happened, deal properly with the perpetrators, and go forward, as much as possible, to ameliorate it. That is, to atone, provide comfort and whatever aid is possible to proven victims, and rule out a continuation of the horror.
Or, we can, in anger and bloodlust, accept the accusations as proof of guilt, conflate legal (if gross) priest/seminarian sexual relationships with unspeakably illegal child molestation, and move on to the more appealing stage of punishment.
The latter is what was done during the Satanic Daycare/Recovered Memory Fraud of the 1980s, which should be a cautionary tale for those whose slogan is "Enough Talk! We Know! l We know! Action! Action!"
Translation: We don't need no stinkin' due process.
17
@alyosha
That is a valid point.
Renewed outrage must not take precedence over confirming the validity of accusations.
The truth we know is already bad enough.
There does seem to be a bit of hysteria about these revelations, which are perhaps new in extent of abuse & cover-up within particular parishes, but NOT new in area of fact that the hierarchy routinely silenced abuse, priests were moved, and in more recent years, victims and their advocates were slandered and threatened.
If we forgot this, we're reminded of it again.
But we seem unable to distinguish between recent events and the coverups that occurred before some reforms were instituted after the pressure of public outrage at the facts revealed in Boston and elsewhere.
Context matters, culture matters. Some things may be - if not forgivable, at least understandable - before bishops fully comprehended the best means to address the abuse of children.
They were, however, warned in the early 1990s, but disregarded the advice.
That, plus the seeming imperative to protect themselves and attack victims' advocates, tends to speak against forgiveness, but perhaps not all hierarchs involved were acting in bad faith.
Discrimination seems to be necessary before blanket judgement, but that is not how the public reacts.
So it turns out that conservatives in the church are just as hypocritical as conservatives in politics. Catholic conservatives regard the Pope as if he were Christ on earth - until the Pope
goes against their ideology. Then they resort to the kind of undermining scandalous behavior of Viganò. It’s their narcissism that they worship. Remind you of anybody?
189
Vigano's accusations sound very much like payback and opportunism. I have no idea if any of it is true but if so let's see the evidence rather than believe someone who will personally benefit from the accusations.
68
"The poetry is all his" - yes, in the way that Trump's poetic tweets elevate us all.
No evidence.
The RC Church is responsible for encouraging - aiding and abetting - child sexual abuse in its efforts to silence the allegations, remove priests from the venues where they might have been held accountable under civil law, and repeatedly lied to its members.
But Vigano is a snake who is not seeking justice or reform_ he is seeking scapegoats to evade responsibility - HIS responsibility.
64
Perhaps Psalms said it best: Put not your trust in princes, in mortal man, who cannot save.
I do wonder: How does a Pope who spent the bulk of his life looking after the ordinary people in Argentina get blamed for decades of widespread criminality and perversity in the United States Catholic Church? Something very strange and wrong about that.
Is it really possible that any of the current American Cardinals or leading Archbishops have clean hands in this matter. It does not seem credible to point at the "liberals" and blame them alone for the failings of the church over decades. All of the US Cardinals have spent 40 or 50 years in the church going to its seminaries, working with other priests and then taking on leadership positions where they were aware of the problems or should have been. This problem runs deep and reflects badly on all the American Catholic leadership, liberals and conservatives alike. Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops, many of whom have shielded the perpetrators in one way or another.
It is time for the US Cardinals to follow the Chilean leadership and offer their resignations as a group. That means liberals and conservatives alike.
33
Shaken to its core? It seems to me that this "letter" was written out of convenience. In other words, if this official was able to get what he wanted, then he wouldn't feel the need to "lash out" or "expose" the Vatican. Seems like a person who is angry that he didn't get his way, rather than as one who wants to see change. Think about it; if this man were able to move up in the ranks like he wanted to, would he have felt the need to write a letter? I'd say no. Therefore, the legitimacy of the letter must be questioned.
51
The Roman Catholic Church is not “shaken to its core” - its core is its people, who are saddened and fed up with the medieval hierarchical structure of its management.
Time for a real change. Like in another “realm”.
37
I wonder if Archbishop Vergano also intends to rescind sainthood for JPII given that he was certainly aware of Cardinal McCarrick’s proclivity.
44
@Maureen
We need a little background on St. JP II on the subject. Pope Francis is seemingly being singled out on a subject that many Pope's and underlings have been aware of for many decades.
13
Where's the focus on the children, the raped, the abused?
48
I wonder why Pope Francis was so upset with meeting Kim Davis, the clerk who was not willing to sign gay wedding licenses? She was not against gays but believed in marriage between one man and one woman. Wasn't it Pope Francis who once met with a gay fellow in Rome? I do not recall anyone being too upset with that. I thought Pope Francis was inclusive and met with everybody. I do not understand the anger when the Church does not recognize homosexual marriage. Kim Davis was not against homosexuals and neither is the Church.
1
@WPLMMT It was divisive, and that's what Francis objected to. At the height of the controversy, his nuncio arranges a meeting with the woman who precipitated it using methods other than those Francis would have chosen. The message conveyed was one of intolerance, which Francis is seeking to avoid in the name of dialogue and acceptance.
23
@WPLMMT
I believe you’re referring to the meeting that took place in Washington DC. The pope met with an old friend and former student who is gay and atheist. It was preplanned, as are all papal visits and audiences.
Viganò arranged to have Kim Davis meet the pope without Francis’ knowledge. Viganò orchestrated it without following proper procedure. It’s the reason he lost his position as nuncio and had to retire.
https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/christianity/pope-franci...
14
@WPLMMT Kim Davis was married four times. She's no example of monogamy or fidelity. As a spokesperson for either she is not credible.
10
Sounds like the actions of a disgruntled bitter employee (or ex employee) rather that anything close to that of a credible whistle blower with anything new or factual! Perhaps Vigano should now script a film, he could call it "The Curia Strikes Back!"
The reality is that the Church as an institution is racked with politics, some have ancient roots and practices. Pope Francis, since his election, has been trying gradually and with some success to navigate those political waters discretely and carefully on the path of reform. Now that Vigano has broken cover, perhaps things will now be blown into the open and public. While not in either the reformers or traditionalists DNA to be blatantly public and discomforting to them, the Vigano letter may prove an asset to Frances. With the debate now in the public domain Frances can rely on public support to advance reforms and cut the ground out from under the traditionalist.
78
A few years ago, we had 2 popes dying within 2 months. The Vatican is very powerful, and some of its members are really un-Christian. At the time of his election, Jean Paul 1st was in good health and shape. One always wondered how within 2 months he suddenly died of obscure causes. Within theses 2 months, he had started to look into some of the Vatican affairs and the Vatican bank accounts in Panama...I guess one will never know the truth, but we need to remember that Papacy had its good share of scandals and murders throughout centuries.
This Cardinal is attempting To dislodge the Pope, for lack of other alternatives. His character, temper and nastiness show that he has not learned what it is to be Christian, yet.
He should be defrocked
66
Our Church must expel the child molesters from the ranks of her clergy. End the practice of moving sexually deviant priests from parish to parish and the cover up of their unspeakable acts against the innocent. The safeguards must be enforced vigorously to prevent such heinous acts against our children from ever happening again.
At the same time, there is no need to provoke dissension within our Church and to challenge our Holy Father's leadership. Archbishop Vigano's actions are politically rather than spiritually motivated and are rooted in a desire for revenge against Pope Francis, a trait contrary to our Christian faith and beliefs. Avoid at all costs an unnecessary schism within Holy Mother Church along the lines of liberalism vs. conservatism.
Instead, send out a call for Vatican III to launch a new Era of Enlightenment within our Church to recruit and include people of greater character and quality to lead a re energized and revitalized priesthood. Vatican III Council would address the future of the Church particularly in terms of the clerical talent pool. Keep our sacred traditions and liturgy intact that were addressed at Vatican II. Open the discussion on the necessary changes and reforms within the priesthood to reflect the state of the world as it truly is. Inclusion of married men, women and a more diverse talent pool of priests led by Pope Francis and the Church hierarchy should be part of the agenda. Renew the Church and commit to the future!
31
What about New York’s Archbishop Timothy Dolan and his Milwaukee “cemetery fund?” Protecting church assets vs. paying victims rightfully?
Let’s put it this way - Dolan’s no angel either.
41
@MIMA
He may be worse than Vignano because he works behind the scenes to try to accomplish the same thing as Vignano, undermine the Pope.
10
A disgusting attempt to smear an imperfect pope who still is doing his best to bring the Catholic church into a future it has resisted for several hundred years.
245
This is not hard intellectually. Denounce harming children and people of lesser power in any way, but especially sexually.
Turn over evidence to local police to handle as local police would handle any case of sexual assault. Forgive the repentant, but understand that they will still need to serve civil penalties, because that is how forgiveness works.
Find a solution for the people who have been harmed. In the US it seems to be money, but really, how far would a personal acknowledgement of sorrow and distress and a plea for forgiveness take us?
And STOP using this issue as a way to settle political scores among men who are pretending to be men of God. Because men of God would focus in HIS work, not on their position of prominence int he institution.
Cardinal Vigano may win yet, because only the blindly faithful will end up staying with the Church. The rest of us are getting ready to walk away. We may need God, but we don't need Cardinals.
43
A ripe one for another of Dan Brown's fictitious novels.
But this time it will be pure non fiction and just as riveting.
What a story and a palace of intrigues.
I had welcomed elevation of Pope Francis as he came across as a humble servant of God.
But he appears to have grabbed a poisoned chalice which will doom his papcy - if not with resignation but forever remembered tarnished by these sordid tales in a temple of prayers.
4
It seems as if Vigano has taken a cue from Donald Trump's smear of Barack Obama.
Attack the leader. Declare he is unqualified for the position he holds. Offer no evidence. Then refuse to discuss it again.
Vigano disappears...supposedly concerned for his own safety. Trump warns us of the "deep state" out to destroy him.
No nominee for "Profiles in Courage" with these two.
324
@Tom Q
Imagine of the same advisor - say someone like Steve Bannon - were attacking the US government and the Vatican from within, with the intention of destroying pretty much everything to see what might come after....
https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-bannon-cardinal-burke-minister-salvi...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/09/world/europe/horowitz-europe-populism...
2
Once again we are treated to clear evidence that the pure beauty of the message Jesus Christ left us to nurture is cast aside in favor of mankind’s fears, and inability to love our fellow humankind.
28
It certainly looks like Archbishop Vigano is working from the Rudy Guiliani playbook - muddy the abuse investigation, create distraction and introduce unsubstantiated claims against Pope Francis.
212
They are not unsubstantiated claims, they haven’t been investigated yet to know one way or the other.
4
His claims could have been substantiated if he presented evidence. So these are currently unsubstantiated. He chose not to produce any evidence and then disappear. Perhaps he is working with Dan Brown!
12
@Ines - Huh? Something that hasn't been investigated to know one way or the other is the definition of an unsubstantiated claim.
2
I would be interested in knowing more about Marco Tosatti. Since he seems to be co-author of the letter, he can hardly be cast as an "objective" reporter. What ideological axes does Tosatti have to grind?
103
Very interesting that Archbishop Vigano is concerned about his personal security and thinks that the Vatican has tapped his phone. What a situation!
14
@Lester B And shortly Google will be coming up with many negative stories about him too!
2
All the infighting and intrigue that goes on within the Vatican bureaucracy (the "Roman Curia"), it just underlines the need for the whole organisation to be cleaned out and re-organised.
All the prelates' "private secretaries" (who are priests) should be sent back into parishes, and their jobs filled by lay people - preferably women.
In fact, there's really no need for a lot of Curial positions being occupied by clerics. Do you really need to be a priest to be a finance minister?
38
"But Archbishop Viganò — who himself has been accused of hindering a sexual misconduct investigation in Minnesota — also seems to be settling old scores."
Why is it that this self-appointed critic feels he can embarrass the Pope not once, but twice?
I'm pretty sure Francis, who is trying to incorporate a more open attitude and practice in a Church that has been losing parishioners with its disastrous handling of the clerical abuse scandals, is appalled to be challenged by Vigano out in the open.
Vigano's attacks are designed to inflict maximum damage to the Pope while he's traveling and can't respond in fu.
What he's doing is personal, petty, and incredibly unChristian. He seems more interested in one-upping his superior than finding a workable solution to longstanding problems of sex abuse in the church.
373
@ChristineMcM: Pope Francis should fire his ass.
1
I have to admit I don’t understand the comments here. Despite the intentions or relevancy of this particular man, has anything been done by any Pope to remove abusers from the Church? Shouldn’t that be the bigger issue? This feels like a distraction that ignores the larger, horrific, problem.
23
@ Elizabeth Myers. In order for the Pope or anyone in authority to 'get something done' - like make a sweeping reform to suspend celibacy and allow priests to marry ( which I suspect is what Francis would like to do) - they must have the cultural and political support of the church as a whole. There are many conservative and ultra conservative clergy in the church, particularly in other continents like Africa and South America, who will not support these kind of major reforms. They want to continue strict adherence to traditional customs and rules.
It is conceivable that this will create a schism in the Catholic Church which cannot be reconciled and that the two branches, progressive and conservative, will split. That's how big and important this sex abuse scandal is. It calls for radical change, not minor reforms.
27
@Gwen Vilen
And it certainly does not call for shooting the messenger.
1
By so arrogantly calling on Pope Francis to resign, Archbishop Viganò has shown his true intent. Only through resignation would the conservative arm of the Church have the opportunity they so desperately seek to stop any additional reforms. If they had their way, it would be back to sack cloth, self-whipping, "witch" burning, and additional perversions. Conservatives are not reformers and enlighteners.
168
It sounds suspiciously like Archbishop Viganò needs a long rest, and a weekend spiritual retreat might help, too. As for the conservatives, they won't be happy until Mass is celebrated in Latin, with the priest's back to the congregation, which left folks sensing they were rather peripheral to the Mass. For the non-Catholics of the world, there's nothing particularly new here; the only constant is that people can screw up everything, often with little effort, or by innuendo alone. It's been around for more than 2K years, and it will muddle through Archbishop Viganò's school yard griping, because The Church is bigger than him or the Conservatives. I admit that sometimes I think Pope Francis is the only real Catholic I know. He's joyful, self-effacing, calm and open-hearted and heroically kind and inclusive, and he's not as stuffy and unapproachable as conservative clergy seem to prefer. Francis is someone I'd love to hug
-- not bow down to, which is why I'm still Catholic. But as a reader might guess, I'm not thrilled to be in the company of throngs of conservative GOP folks, either, which is why I'm an Independent voter -- but that's a whole different ballgame, I suppose. Or is it?
117
@drjillshackfordThis comment is characteristic of the profound ignorance of "liberal" Catholics. In the traditional Mass the priest does NOT "have his back to the congregation". Priest and people face the altar together and their prayers are directed to God. Liberals cannot stand being a part of the Mass, they want the liturgy to be directed to them and all about them. Traditional Mass--directed to God. New Mass -about the "people of God" and about feeling good about themselves, about hugs and self-regard. Francis,of course, panders to this sense of self adulation. I would suggest that this writer assist at a few traditional Masses. He will find a bunch of young people with lots of children. Young priests are especially interested in offering the Latin Mass. Contrast the predominant color of gray at the new Mass. The advent of the new Mass marked the sharp decline in Mass attendance--75% down to 23% now attending the Mass that was supposed to be what the people wanted. (btw, even pagan priests knew enough to face the altar). Pax et bonum!
1
Rob - the writer most likely is female, based on the name. She would not be allowed to participate in the way you suggest so that she might understand your concept of traditional mass. Try being a good Christian and assume the best of intentions in her comment instead of using it as an opportunity to complain about liberal degradation of medieval ritual.
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@Rob The last traditional Mass I attended was celebrated entirely in silence, or whispering, by the priest. The spirit of exclusion was suffocating. The practice of the priest facing the congregation symbolizes the position of Jesus welcoming us and all of us offering Him and us to the Father at least as well as everyone facing one way.
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After 68 years with this crowd, and their demonstrated ability to argue for a decade rather than work for a week on problem resolution, I think it's time to find a new home. What's the Anglican Church like?
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@John Duffy
The Anglican Church was founded because an english king wanted to discard his wife and marry his french mistress. I don't think it is a good start for a new church.
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@Paula
I doubt Anglicans or Episcopals would agree with that dismissive statement.
You no doubt believe that Jesus ordained the first Pope, but Constantine put him on the papal throne.
I started watching "The Young Pope" on HBO and stopped half way because it was unbelievable. I will now rewatch the entire show because even though it is fiction it is as if life is following the script.
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Why does Archbishop Vigano drop a bombshell and disappear? And why does he offer no evidence just accusation? Doesn't smell right.
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@Jann Because in today's world, no proof is needed...just scandal and innuendo.
He disappeared in order not to have to defend his accusations.....
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Almost as good as a bad novel! The Archbishop has done as much to scandalize the faithful as any of the other clerical offenses about which he is enraged. The conservatives, who see themselves as the righteous and pure of the Roman Church, have used the Archbishop's letter to further their own agendas. Again, almost as good as a bad novel. The Church of the Middle Ages, for some, has never ended!
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Vanity and vengeance are writ large on the character of Archbishop Vigano. Mean spirited also fits.
After reading the accompanying article about Cardinal Wuerl, deservedly known as a champion of sexual abuse victims and a supporter of Pope Francis, my worry is that right wing conservative Catholics will commence a witch hunt to try to thin the ranks of Francis's followers.
Vigano fingered Wuerl, as well as Francis in his 7,000(!) word letter and it looks like a few teachers and over zealous abuse victims threw their lot in with him.
I hope many Catholics in Washington will hold vigils and rally's in support of Cardinal Wuerl.
Without the support of concerned Catholic laity it will be difficult for Francis and his supporters to hold ground. Clergy of integrity, tolerance, and compassion don't have the spitefulness necessary to attack and malign their adversaries - a forward position that is not above board, but has proven very effective in sex scandals.
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The infuriating part of this story is the attempt to (again) blame pedophilia on the gay community when there is no evidence that gays are any more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. Beyond that there are likely, indeed, gay men in the priesthood just as there are gay teachers, doctors, lawyers, and bus drivers. It sounds as if the cardinal has decided to use the current strife (and, by extension, abuse victims) as a means to his end - getting rid of this Pope and of gays in the church. Yes, sadly, none of that will save children from further harm.
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Anne-Marie Hislop: 80-90% of the sexual abuse victims are male. All clergy are male. Are you able to draw a conclusion from these facts?
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Yes! Thank you for making the point that homosexuality and pedophilia are not linked. It's infuriating that Viganó's letter links them, and the press has followed suit.
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@Anne-Marie Hislop
I expect decades ago (before the gay rights movement), gay men may have been drawn to the priesthood as a "safety net" from heterosexual marriage. But, that is surely not the case now? I'd be curious to know what the demographic is of men now entering the priesthood?
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Power hungry Cardinal? A typical human trait. Pope Francis is not the type of Pope who gets intimidated.
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This story should have run with the story about Viganò’s letter.
We may never get to the truth behind the archbishop’s accusations, but the truth about the accuser certainly reframes the context.
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Born and raised a Catholic with parents who participated actively in church life I have never been so disgusted by the behavior of a supposed shepherd of the church. Vigano is clearly a fraud and it is with good reason he was never made a prince of the church.
But it is the conservative bishops like Burke who draw my most fervent disdain and ire. They have zero respect for the teachings of Christ and for the flock they are called to lead. His Holiness would do well by the people to remove from ministry all those who pretend to be like Christ but whose every move diminishes his teachings and the word of God. Let the schism happen. The true Roman Catholic Church will be embraced by people of goodwill everywhere while Burke and his ilk will be left fighting for the scraps.
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The problem with Archbishop Vigano is that he is not "clean", as we say here in Germany. This has nothing to do with drugs, but with bad intentions.
He offered explosive material to the press, the Vatican tried to suppress it because it was tough stuff and Vatican-damaging in general. Due to this he was removed from his post as Nuntius.
Now he is taking revenge at Pope Francis, who is not the person he should ave addressed. Make your own opinion. What do you think about Vigano now?
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Maybe archbishop Viano has an agenda, but isn't the most important question whether his story is true?
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@Leo Pesch. A person who has an 'agenda' can never be fully trusted to be above board and impartial. The allegations so far are not only questionable, they are misleading, vague, and thin. Have you read them?
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@Leo Pesch Rumors and innuendo. No proof at all. In the age of social media, the web, and "fake news" there is no need for proof...
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Leo Pesch:
The very same scatterbrains who convict males of various "crimes" committed thirty or forty years ago, when many of such "crimes" were part of normal interaction between men and women, today are convicting Viano because "he has an agenda." So too do the metoo women have an agenda.
What matters: is the story true? And if so, is the story relevant?
The story here is not really about the Pope, but rather, the claim about the coverup of the scandal, which has been going on for decades. Is the coverup the work of a network of homosexuals in the Church, which network Viano compares to the tentacles of an octupus?
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This Cardinal sounds like any fraud, ala Trump. He comes a very wealthy family and is fond of fine wines and power. I wonder how many small parishes he worked in? How man hungry he fed? How many homeless did he clothe and help put back on their feet? How many immigrants with nowhere to refuge did he take in? Yes, this all sour grapes and covering up his skeletons. Cardinal....you have opened the gates. Come out of hiding from your closet.
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@Marko Polo He is not a Cardinal....read the article. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why he has orchestrated this vendetta....
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@Marko Polo
The headline should be that Viganò tried to coverup the investigation of Archbishop Nienstadt for sexual abuse, Nienstadt is a right winger like himself.
Also he is an ally of the head of the “traditionalist” movement, Cardinal Raymond Burke. Burke is allied with our own choir boy, Steve Bannon. Bannon is also a right wing Catholic and part of the extremist traditionalist movement.
That is pretty much all you need to know.
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@Marko Polo
I know it'll seem picky to some, but it is a bit distracting that you repeatedly call him a Cardinal not Archbishop, especially when it's highly probable that his "sour grapes" is likely caused by the fact that he was never promoted to Cardinal.
In any event, whether Archbishop or Cardinal, he is certainly no Mother Teresa.
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