Amen! Something needs to be done about student living expenses. Why on earth is sharing a room the size of a walk in closet so high. Dormitories used to be a way to lower costs for students. Meal plans are outrageous! There should be communal kitchens available.
My career as an academic included the transition in higher education from a time when the education of students was our priority to when research and intellectual endeavors of the faculty took priority. The result was reduced faculty teaching loads and graduate students used to meet teaching responsibilities. The direct result of this was and is the very large increase of salary budgets thus driving up the cost to the student.
It's the overhead. Administration, big new beautiful buildings and sports arenas, the things that are truly unrelated to the actual education. And it is a scam making the poor students take out loans. Moreover, everything in this world is overvalued and overpriced. We are rapidly evolving into a two tiered society where only the small percentage at the top have all the resources and the other 99% have almost nothing....feudalism anyone?
6
We keep getting all of this lip service from our legislators concerning the detriment of high tuition costs all the while as more and more colleges and universities, public as well as private, keep dotting their landscape with the ubiquitous cranes erecting those multi-million dollar amenities and sports facilities. When will parents and students rise up and say "enough already."
2
As a college prof, I could tell in the first month of each semester which students were working, and which ones were there on daddy and mommy’s money. How? The first group cared about their studies. The second? Not so much. I’d like to see teachers honor the commitment our working students make to their educations.
2
In the late 1980s I discovered most, if not all, of my students were working 3/4 time while carrying full-time course loads -- or the reverse. It has become much worse since. Free time allows the out of class conversations that let ideas and questions gel, so the intellectual cost was obvious.
The first thing to do is to help the currently indebted. The Federal government could immediately pay off the loans and charge its interest rate on student loans -- perhaps with .2% fee to cover costs of billing the debtors. The 20 year bond rate is less than 3%; it would be a good investment in the future; and, since future interest charges would be drastically reduced, the current student loan payments would decline immensely.
That would be a first step; for it could be done quickly and, by limiting lender profits, would cut kickbacks by lenders for loan referrals. It would also help the newly indebted by vastly lowering the amount to be payed each future year.
2
I admire this editorialist.
I worked for a catering service through my college years, and consider it to have been part of my education, giving me vocational and time management skills while my liberal arts classes made me literate and analytical.
I missed out on fraternity parties and football games, but not on any true educational experiences at all.
1
Rainesford, (interesting name, you are the first Rainsford I have come across), I agree, universities do need to change. Over a trillion in Student Debt out there, shows problems. A philanthropic donation check of a trillion dollars will not improve the problem, unless this school system changes.
It doesn't make sense to work hard to get admitted to a highly selective undergraduate and graduate program, and then spend time in jobs that only require a HS degree, or less. And, also, in jobs that require more than. Your only job, ideally, perhaps reasonably and not just ideally, should be that of Student.
Time that can be better spent working-on Homework Assignments, as well as thinking beyond the assignments, towards perhaps making decisions to how you live, your lifestyle. Such changes like organization memberships, identity groups, even trying to transfer to a better school program because you read this off the syllabus book, or went to this museum event, and found someone who works at a different university as a Professor.
At Duke, for undergraduate, I did work. I should have just been truly a full-time Student. Didn't make sense to get into Duke, and then spend many hours doing non-Student work. I feel embarrassed for Duke. Same thing for Graduate School for me.
Rainesford, in the Future, for all Students, Student is going to be a paid job. Even for Pre-Schoolers. All the way through all 52 Grades (that is past Ph.D.). I finished, you can too.
2
Going to college COSTS TOO MUCH. The price of a degree is insane. We have no one looking out for the average American who wants to better themselves. The greed of the universities is out of control. They pay millions per year for a football coach but the TA's make spit. Whose job is more important in a student's life? Our priorities are all screwed up, and we need real leadership to turn things around. MAKE COLLEGE AFFORDABLE and students won't have to work while going to school.
6
How does this sentence sound to most readers: "I am exhausted by the continuing idea that it isn’t a (BMW dealership’s) responsibility to make (a sexy sports car) affordable and accessible to all kinds of (consumers)."
If you choose the right school and the right major (two very big ifs), a college degree more than pays for itself. Given that fact, why should Ms. Stauffer expect someone else to pay for her education? And no, there is very little about a post-secondary education that qualifies as a public good for which taxpayers should foot the bill, so please don't trot out that canard.
2
Why can't anyone see that college costs too much. And, that many that start college really shouldn't be there - at least not right after high school. I too worked in college, it's not a race thing either (to the poster that believes comments are directed because writer is not a 'white male.'). I'm astounded daily by the ignorance and arrogance of the NYTimes and readers when their identity politics takes over. It's unreal. I am glad that the US was started centuries ago and evolved over time. If the NYTimes and it's readers were creating this country today, we'd be a banana republic. Perhaps, Venezuela? Ms. Stauffer - don't worry about the parties you didn't attend or the trips you didn't take; college for most of us isn't about those things, not our priority. Nor should it be.
2
I wish the author would have supplied some numbers so that we could understand her situation better, she should be able to work part time during the school year and full time in the summer to make ends meet. One of my children was an RA for two years, which meant room and board in exchange for 10 to 20 hours of work a week (and often allowed for study time while on duty) he took out a loan for living expenses for the first two years which he kept very, very low. If the author is in a location where she can only land a 7 dollar an hour job, then living expenses should be rather low too, I have a child in college in NYC and the school pays 16 dollars an hour for on campus employment. I also think taking out a loan of 4,000-8000 dollars or so over the 4 years would not be outrageous, esp. if the student is low income and will get good rates. Of course it is nice not to work while in college, but it is not the end of the world to work 20 hours--I just don't understand how one can work full time and go to college full time--I would love to run a budget with this student, maybe we could cut back expenses by a considerable amount. Sounds like she is not paying tuition so why is she upset with the school?
1
This article says 1/3 of borrowers have no degree. The corollary to that statistic is: the six-year graduation rate for students who started in the fall of 2006 was 60.5 percent at public four-year colleges, and 62.5 percent at private nonprofit colleges.
People do not finish college for a variety of reasons, but, in today's climate, I would venture to say that one reason is they are set up to fail academically. Here's another statistic: 40-60% of university students enroll in remedial math or English or both.
Some people will blame the failure of our K-12 system, sure. But, I see it more as an indictment of our wrong-headed culture that compels "all students" go to college, a phenomenon enabled by declining admission standards and for-profit institutions. This will sound harsh, but if you haven't mastered algebra in high school, you shouldn't borrow money to try it again in college. (If you want to try again, do it at community college). College is for higher education, and, frankly, not everyone is cut out for that. Students who are academically unable to get a degree from a reputable university should pursue other ventures, ventures they'll end up pursuing anyway, but without all the debt from a degree never earned.
7
Years ago, I was recruiting engineers at a college in upstate NY when I met a soon-to-be graduate in mechanical engineering. He maintained a 4.0 (straight A) grade point average and was looking for a full-time job upon graduation in a few months. He was a fairly recent immigrant from Togo, a small country in west Africa. A somewhat older student (early 30's), he had a wife and kids in NYC and would drive down there on the weekends to drive a taxi to support them. On Monday morning, he would drive back upstate to continue his education.
He was mature, focused and no nonsense. He was exactly the type of person anyone would be proud to have working with or for them. The combination of overcoming the uncertainties and challenges of emigrating to the US and supporting a family while pursuing a rigorous education has always impressed the heck out of me.
Do coddled college students understand the sacrifices someone like him has made to build a meaningful life for himself and his children? Do we as a country understand the formative process that this guy went through to achieve his American dream? College should be more than writing papers, running labs and partying. The type of person that is forged from an experience such as this is what builds and maintains a society. Universities should not throw undue barriers to make this even harder. In my view, these are the experiences that make real adults.
5
I think what we will see is a bifurcation in college options that parallels the bifurcation in the US economy. Prestigious, big name schools with big endowments will continue to offer the traditional, classroom based, well-rounded education to the financial or academic elite. Those who can pay, or who can get a scholarship that will make paying feasible, will continue to get an excellent education with lots of major options. For everyone else, there will be low-cost public options such as tuition subsidized community colleges, but in order to get support for public funding (taxation) they will be limited to offering vocationally oriented programs that teach specific "career ready" skills, mostly online and with as little personal contact as possible. Great educations for the elite, career training for everyone else. If we don't address income inequality, that's what we'll be stuck with. It's already heading that way.
4
It's my thought that students need to demand itemized bills, and be able to opt out of things they don't need or want: gyms, dorms, sports activities, student life, etc. A HUGE chunk of their bills are going into things have nothing to do with instruction (not to mention the legions of administrators). If students want them, they can be charged for them. But if students don't want to use those non-instructional areas, they shouldn't have to pay for them.
On the flip side, differential tuition rates need to be offered, as certain academic programs are cheaper to deliver than others.
The current "flat fee" system is neither serving the students nor the faculty.
1
I don't understand why people want to overwork themselves. College is only 4 years on average and the author cited how a third of all college attendees dropout without a degree. Maybe its because people are doing too much: 1. work (full or part-time), 2. school, 3. children (in many cases), 4. miscellaneous costs like medical issues or housing finances. Perhaps more people would graduate if they'd only do one thing at a time.
I remain shocked at the lack of pressure on universities to provide better value. ...And at the smug and righteous way that they misrepresent it while trying to uphold values of equality.
Universities are in an arms race to add gyms and gluten free dining and so they raise tuition but say "well we will also offer more aid" but it NEVER REALLY WORKS OUT THAT WAY.
How about more colleges encourage students to graduate in 3 years? If it is good enough for colleges overseas like Oxford University (for the last 920 years) it should be good enough for schools here.
Maybe a couple of degrees (engineering, pre-med?) could use all 4 years but they are also likely to pay more upon graduation. Someone like Ms. Stauffer who may be eyeing a career in journalism should likely be able to graduate in 3.
There, costs just fell 25%...
4
It is not surprising that that professors and counselors advise putting education first even if that means more student loans as they need student dollars to pay their expenses.
1
I entered college in 1970, and graduated from law school debt free in 1979 without significant financial aid from either my parents or the schools I attended. I was able to do this because working class jobs still paid decent wages, and because the private and public schools I entered (which included elite Eastern and English schools) were relatively affordable.
My teenage children are now college bound, and will be able to pursue their higher education only through the unearned happenstance of economic privilege. Even so, they will probably opt for the state university because of the 65-75k annual price tag currently affixed to a private liberal arts school education. Meaningful equality of opportunity and the survival of our democracy will when we recognize post secondary education as a public obligation and investment and reduce income disparity through progressive taxation.
9
As single mother I put myself through CCNY while working. I spent 45 minutes taking a bus to college after I dropped my daughter off at school. Came home, spent time and had dinner with her. A babysitter slept over so I could work until 2:00 AM but I made it through (BS 1969). The best part of it was the tuition, actually the lack of it. Then earned a MPA from NYU. The tuition was about $2-3K per year that my employer reimbursed (1975 graduate). How lucky I was compared to students today. Even my daughter had it easier 25 years ago.
I am a grandmother, pushing 80, who had legal guardianship of 3 grandsons up to the age of 18. They still live with me. They have worked through high school and are now working their way through community college. Pell grant helps but I dread the day they transfer to a 4 year college. Even with some grant money there is the high cost of living and they will probably need to pay part or all of their tuition.
I let them know if they take out loans they are out of my house. I explained how much debt can drag you down like a ball and chain and how it changes your life and choices more than you can imagine. I suggested taking a year or 2 longer if need be. It hasn't been easy for any of us in this household but they will make it.
Isn't it Regan who took support away from the universities and said that the government should not be paying for intellectual curiosity? Not the most forward looking president was he? Current one is doing even worst.
32
@Montage Your assessment was right on until you got to the end. No, it wasn't Regan 'who took support away from the universities...' However, he did make them accountable by not increasing aid by double digits each year so they could in turn raise their rates for tuition and on-campus housing. Too bad the last few presidents have been too clueless to act on this issue lest they receive bad press.
1
I find it ironic that you paid to go to journalism school so that you can write about how you struggled to pay for journalism school.
Unless you are going to become a doctor or lawyer where you learn specialized skills that aren't covered in college, why go to graduate school in the first place and take on even more debt?
But it's also a mystery why colleges don't offer 2 or 3-year programs for certain majors (do you really need to spend 4 whole years studying philosophy or literature or art history to be competent enough to get a job?). Make it more commonplace and it will be accepted by more and more employers. It would be cheaper and still better than dropping out where you wind up with nothing.
2
The most interesting parts are the recommendations by professors to just go get some loans. Those education experts seem to understand the college process less than the author does. The smart way is to get a diploma from the best school you can, as quickly as you can, with the least debt. The author seems to have an inherent or well honed skill to optimize results within constraints, a skill that most colleges are clueless at teaching and a skill that will be important every day of a working life. I expect employers will love that story. Soon we’ll likely see yet another story in NYT about someone with a degree, received after five or 6 six years, huge debts and complaining that “somebody” gave them a raw deal. Exhibit 1 of someone not good at optimization.
5
Great article. I could relate completely. An additional complicating factor for some students (like me, the first woman in my family to attend higher education) is the absence of financial advice on loan issues and career guidance for our current economy. If your high school counselor is MIA or woefully underinformed, you are dependant upon family, friends, and educating yourself about complicated financial considerations. At 18 years of age, you are more than prepared to make mistakes and to take risks you would come to later regret. Today, I have a PhD...lots of federal student loan debt...but, I'm employed, have good benefits. Was it worth the debt? I'm still not sure. Ask me in another 10 years.
3
I happened to be reading this as I'm procrastinating delivering my leave of absence request form to my university. I have been a working student and single parent for about 11 years now. To stay sane I had to go part time which had the effect of stretching out this ordeal seemingly forever. I completed my undergrad relatively quickly, but my PhD... Let's just say your mention of exhaustion and guilt about work deeply, deeply resonated with me. I have the loans and debt even though I had a 5 year fellowship, but I could not afford food and utilities on the $200 or less left PER QUARTER after paying for books and the university's own family housing. I had no choice. Reading this made me feel a little better though. As terrible as it is, it's a little comforting to know I'm not the only one doing this massive act of debt, guilt, exhaustion, and faith that this will pay off. I would also like to add that this balancing act (balance...what a joke) takes a massive toll on our mental health. There is no place outside of a prison that's more isolating than the remote hermit temple atop Mt. Work in which I "live". And don't get me started on the anxiety and eventual depression induced by pitting it against basic human needs like food and housing. It can break us over time. Speaking of which, I guess I better go deliver this form now.
4
The first step to minimizing debt is to start at a community college.
6
The more federal money that becomes available for certain endeavors, the higher the rate of inflation in those market sectors. Higher education as it currently exists hasn't demonstrated its value proposition for the majority of its graduates. We have drunk the koolaid that a four year degree is the only path to upward mobility, and that just isn't true. Many of the financially comfortable people in my town are HVAC people, network administrators, restaurant owners, and landscapers.
3
There are schools that cater to and respect the working student + value the life experience they contribute.
Unfortunately, these full degree programs are not heavily advertized but dig into the websites and you find them: Columbia has it, so does NYU (DAUS). Not sure about the less costly CUNY.
2
In order to have the American Capitalist State you need a well-educated middle class to do the work. Today, you must have some education after High School to get a good job; yet, it is becoming increasing difficult for the middle class to pay for education. I have read that there are thousands of building-trades jobs going vacant because no one knows how to do the work. Why isn’t the government doing more to encourage training for skilled labor and subsidizing higher education? This country is hurting its future by not doing more to help the middle class pay for education.
11
I can certainly sympathize with Ms. Stauffer since I found myself in the same boat. I had to stop going back to college because of health and financial reasons in my late thirties. Add to that, heavy debt because of taking care of an terminally ill parent, and presto! You're in the hole and financing an education digs a bigger hold financially speaking.
We had a better model before where state colleges / land-grant schools were state and federally subsidized before loans were subsidized. You need price controls and also another verboten issue: not everyone should go to college and that should be OK and not condemn you to a life of poverty. Vocational programs at high schools have to properly funded for those individuals with greater mechanical, manual abilities. We have to get off this cultural classist mindset that being a labourer is less valuable than being an intellectual. They are both valuable and essential to a functioning society.
29
Online courses serve this purpose and are increasingly available at many institutions.
1
Skip college and just get a paycheck anywhere. You won't have any debts and won't be so shackled. Easy.
3
@Daniel Kinske
Unfortunately in this day and age the college degree is required for practically everything. It has nothing to do with the field of study, it is almost like they see it as evidence of your capability. I have worked with people that had the degree and did not have any education in the most basic things. An English major that had had no idea what To Kill a Mockingbird was, none at all. It was so bad I started a word of the day to expand her vocabulary as she kept needing me to decipher client emails. She did however have no trouble explaining the rules of some beer tipping drink game to me. Even an entry level receptionist job requires a college degree these days. It is all ridiculous.
19
@Daniel Kinske
Yup. That works well: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/10/06/5-the-value-of-a-college-educa... .
30-years ago I graduated high school, was Asst. Mgr. of a local delivery-only pizza shop in a suburb of NW Houston working 56-hours a week (salary) and a F/T student at Univ. of Houston in SE Houston. That lasted all of 5 or 6 weeks before I wore myself, weakening my immune system and going out on a date with a young lady who'd had mono ~6-months prior.
When the semester had started I was about to turn 18, was still living at home, paid cash for my tuition and thought I was invincible.
Whether it was working F/T while taking on a F/T course load or that single date, the butterfly started flying...
2
College tuition has gone up much faster than inflation for about 4 decades. That has made college less affordable exactly when the degree became a sine qua non of advancement. Where has the money gone? Not to professors who do the basic work. Indeed, most students are now taught by continent labor PhD with enormous educational debt. While colleges talk liberalism they are in fact like the rest of the US with a reverse Robin Hood transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
17
The richest nation in the world should be able to provide a university education to all who have the ability and determination to obtain one without regard to the ability to pay. If it doesn't it won't be the richest nation for much longer. Student debt is crippling those just when they should be beginning to flourish.
11
@Caded Richest Nation? China is quickly catching up and will likely surpass the US at some point
1
I've never felt so understood by an article before. I too started working at 15 before I could even drive myself to my job. I graduated with my bachelor's degree in December, and I worked sometimes three jobs at a time on top of extracurriculars and on campus leadership positions. I too had advisors and professors tell me I should prioritize my education above all else. I too had other students simply not understand that I had to work and could not go to parties or hang out every night. It's true that my grades could have been better, and I could have done more extracurriculars if I did not work, but I also learned life skills by working off campus. I learned how to budget and provide for myself. So many of my fellow students had no concept that going to school actually did cost real money and it was going to have to be paid for later on. My dad told me when I graduated high school that it was my choice where I went to school and whether or not I wanted to take out loans. But he advised me that I would be so much better off starting my adult life after school in the black rather than the red. He told me how much harder it would be starting out already trying to dig myself out of a black hole of debt. And now that I'm on the other side - I absolutely know he was right. Graduating debt free was an accomplishment I'm just as proud of as my degree.
22
Sorry. But education is a choice. Chosen university that you can afford, with a major that will provide a solid lifestyle.
The marines paid for most of my tuition, yet I still hadn’t to take out loans and worked at an office during the day, part time, and waited tables at night. That’s just life and this is the easiest life is at that time.
Maybe students should think about starting at community college and finishing at a state school, with a useful major. It worked for me
6
When I started college in the Fall of 1980 JImmy Carter was still president and tuition payment was a stress-free experience. I had to take out loans, absolutely, but the interest was reasonable. I felt supported by my country and I worked hard and got good grades.
By the time I graduated from medical school in 1988, the system had completely changed under Ronald Reagan. Under duress I had to take out very high interest loans to pay my tuition, was getting harassed by some banks, and I accumulated most of my debt in those last few years. I had to start thinking, not which medical specialty I could do best in, but which one could help me pay back a large student debt, which took about 15 years. And students today have it much worse.
27
The very concept of "working student" cuts the roots of prosperity and progress. Being a student is enough of a job.
5
Reading this piece, I was especially struck by the lack of empathy and unrealistic expectations of the author's professors. I suspect many of them were baby boomers who obtained their higher education before the two-decade period (cited by Ms. Stauffer) during which the cost of doing so really took off, but I don't expect that the attitude will change significantly as these individuals retire and are replaced by academics of my generation. During my time in graduate school, it was clear that the students who could and did avail themselves of the support of wealthy parents or private sector spouses had better career outcomes than those who couldn't. One of my professors recently speculated that, given these realities, academia will increasingly become a bastion of the aristocracy. Students who must work while they attend school will likely fare no better than the author did when they seek advising from faculty members who never had to take out a loan or work a cash register to obtain their positions.
24
The root of the problem lies in a change to the bankruptcy laws in the 90's that removed student loans from bankruptcy protection. The idea was to make it easier for lower incomes to afford higher education. It did that. It also spawned a ton of less than resonsible education financiers and suppliers as student debt could no longer discharged by bankruptcy. Student debt assumed is debt forever, ballooned by exorbitant late fees and loan shark level interest rates, ... Buttressed by cosigning parents, grandparents, ...
Universities offered ever more generous "aid packages" for ever more questionable courses, knowing full well they could sell the virtually guaranteed debt into a secondary market of shadowy collection agencies. Supporting sky rocketing education salaries (well into six figures) and perks for self interested management in whose interest it is to keep the debt ball rolling.
Now a trillion dollar (plus and expotentially growing) drag on our economy (equivalnt to nearly 10% of our gross natonal product) keeping the debt laden from investing, or buying new cars, houses, vacations, furniture, ...
15
We are a very strange country. We are pushing everyone to go to college, but at the same time we are making it an economic possibility for so many.
I agree with Bernie Sanders about making state universities free. In addition to free tuition, students who graduate from high school with a high GPA and who maintain at least a B average in college could be given a stipend for living expenses. One of my grandsons has a full scholarship for an excellent state university in California, but he has to pay $1,100 a month for a room and bath. Luckily, his aunt, who has no children, is paying for his housing.
A country that spends billions of dollars on unnecessary wars and corporate welfare should put that money to better use. We should put that money into educating our children instead of making them debtors before they even start out in adult life. It's shameful.
29
Ms. Stauffer rightly complains about the unreasonable expense of a college education for most young people in her peer group. It is also true that balancing education with work presents a quandary for most. What struck me as odd was her claim that, though she is only in her early 20s, she has been working for most of her life. According to my calculations, that means she began working around age 10. I thought there were child labor laws that prevent kids from entering the workplace. Maybe her beef is with the parents who allowed it.
@aberta I got my first job, delivering newspapers, at age seven. My wages helped my family.
4
This is a misleading article the article implies that a quarter of full-time students work full time. Most students working, work parttime. In fact, many fewer students are working over the past 20 years. You can look it up at BLS.gov. This can lead to students taking out larger student loans. (As an aside the student loans crisis is overblown. The average debt is about $10,000 and a third of graduates have no debt at all.)
The concern raised in the report is for that minority of full-time students who have to work full-time - to support their families for instance - while going to school, which is a real problem but not a reason for students not to work at all.
I do agree that students should not be burdened with the current high college costs. If it is good for society to have a well-educated workforce, society should bear most of the costs.
1
@Garrison Moore "society should bear most of the costs" i.e. Taxes
1
In New Zealand you get interest-free loans for tuition, subsidized housing, and a stipend for basic necessities like food. They also don't pile excessive and tangential courses into their degree programs to make a buck on tuition and books.
There's really no reason we can't do that here, except that we're not willing to.
Not everyone has the fortitude or ability to go full time to school and work. Demanding that they must do so to make a life for themselves is wrong-headed.
24
It doesn't have to be this way, even today. My son is off in the Netherlands, teaching mathematics at one of the country's national universities. The annual tuition for European Nationals is 2060 euros for 2018-19. It is being raised to 2078 euros for 2019-20. This is a school that boasts 16 Nobel Laureates. There is, apparently, another, better, way to serve students.
33
This seems pretty much what one would expect from a journalist; a polarizing piece. Working students vs heartless academic institutions. What specifically does the author want? What solutions does she propose? There was no value in the article from restating a widely known problem. There could have been value from offering insightful recommendations.
7
Class, it's a curse, isn't it, if you're in the wrong one, social one, I mean. I was lucky, I guess, when I attended the School of General Studies at Columbia University in the 1960's. 1) Tuition was modest and affordable. 2) Faculty didn't set time tables for completion of one's education on a bureaucratic schedule; they were well aware that working students were on their own schedules. 3) NYC was affordable. Apparently, all that has vanished. Shameful!
26
In the next 10 years I believe college is going to become something most Americans cannot afford. We are at the breaking point with these crazy tuitions, loans and the dangerous, precarious bubble of debt. And then there is Betsy DeVos who is trying to get us there sooner than later. Americans are suckers. We want to brag about how self reliant were back in the day, but the sobering future is; no average person can pay $300k worth of loans and not be a serf.
22
I believe universities and colleges should encourage working students and accommodate them as much as possible. In my own academic career, I have found that such students are more motivated, more dynamic and better prepared than whiny 18-year-olds who come with a sense of entitlement and a host of pretend psychological conditions. Since I taught in other countries as well, I can compare American undergrads with students in China, Italy and Israel, and my conclusion is that in each of these countries, undergrads are, on the average, more mature, smarter and less infantile than their American counterparts. Not surprisingly, working before or through college is pretty common outside the US.
14
Liberals think America wants educated people. Pfft. If Liberals still believe that, I have a bridge to sell. American billionaires only want people smart enough to run the machines. No smarter.
18
I understand this writer's points and many are good ones.
My concern though teaching undergraduates at a state university is that working students expect the curriculum to be watered down so that they can put more time than I think they should into minimum wage jobs. The job rules. And the expectation is that the course/professor should modify the work load for "part-time" students who work more hours than they go to school.
It's a dilemma I know. Ideally, students should be students and get the most out of that time in their lives. Costs today make that increasingly difficult, yes.
8
Wow. Just wow. I can't help but wonder how the comments posted here would be different if the writer were a white male.
To the ignorant poster who claimed, "I don't buy that a teacher who teaches 16 hours a week actually works 30" - here's a reality check: A teacher who teaches 16 hours a week is probably an adjunct working at multiple colleges and making somewhere around 30k a year, without health insurance or sick pay, working over 40 hours/wk. (more if they teach writing).
The problem with college tuition is that all of the money goes towards two things: 1). administrator salaries. These people generally know (and care) little about education but quite a lot about making money - if this means courting the rich at the expense of the talented or packing undergrads into classrooms like sardines - so be it. Administrators generally make 6 figure salaries. The rest of our money goes towards: 2). fancy buildings and facilities built to woo rich students.
Neither of these expenses have anything to do with the education our kids are receiving - not that anyone in the comments section here seems to care about the quality of the education our kids are receiving. For the record, the quality sucks. But Americans have never been much interested in education, only in making money.
As a longtime professor, I want to tell Ms. Stauffer to keep writing and exposing the hypocrisy and corruption in the education industry. You've only scratched the surface.
60
@Elsie
The problem with college tuition is that by offering federal loans to students, we incentivize colleges to charge high tuition. If there were no student loans, colleges would have to offer degrees for a tuition that people could afford. I'm also a college instructor, and many of my tenure-track colleagues make less than public school teachers.
4
@Elsie,
As a fellow educator, I agree with you that much of the money spent on bells and whistles and high level admin salaries is wasted, and that the quality of higher ed is often questionable at best. However, I would add that this is driven as much by the students as the administration.
Colleges and universities lavish money on facilities, because fancy dorms, food choices, and athletic facilities attract students. When they tour a campus, that's what they see, not the quality of the teaching. Wealthy students expect these amenities, middle class ones are wowed by them.
As for the education part, too many have grown up in the era of self-esteem and entitlement, getting trophies just for showing up and being told the customer is always right. They expect easy A's and will punish tough professors with poor evaluations. I can't tell you how many times an entitled brat has demanded special treatment with the preface "I pay a lot of money to go to this school..." They are not paying for an education, they are paying for an "experience" and a credential. Administrative bloat is a serious problem (everybody is Assistant Dean of something), no doubt. The other part of the problem is something no individual college or university has the power to fight -- the expectations of potential students.
1
Ms. Stauffer, I completely understand.
I attended university while working. I had to work at least 20 hrs/week to pay for living expenses, on top of my classload. My major was electrical engineering, which yields about 4 hours of homework for each hour in class, and the department had no understanding of older students needs. I worked as an electronics tech, which paid more, but also too much to qualify me for student loans.
There were many days where I had to choose between making money to pay for living expenses or doing homework to help my GPA. Living usually won, and my GPA suffered. It was a vicious cycle, that at one point led to pre-foreclosure on our house.
But I survived. I couldn't go to grad school, it would have bankrupted me. However, I did find a branch of engineering that suited me and my skills. I've been very successful and am regarded as one of the best in my field (clinical engineering), even though most of my peers have masters degrees.
The point is: I think higher education is set up to favor those whose parents can afford it and are willing to pay for it. (Mine never were - they were anti-college).
In order for the US to grow, I think we need to do several things. My top two are:
1. Get rid of the myth that everyone should have a 4 year degree. There are a ton of jobs for skilled labor, which pay as well or better than BS/BA jobs.
2. For those that NEED a four year degree, provide a realistic path for all qualified to get there.
60
@Paul For the sake of all in the work/education quandary, please tell us when you graduated. It is very true that tuition and living expenses were cheaper (when adjusted for inflation) 30 years ago. I've heard of many baby boomers who were able to complete a bachelor's degree for a lot less with considerably lower student loan debt afterward. My son serves his country in the USAF. The military offers excellent training and GI bill benefits for those who want to pursue education following military service. This is another avenue that contravenes the myth that everyone should have a 4 year degree. I've also heard of those who approach education by gleaning what is freely provided on the internet, public libraries, MOOCs offered by universities, etc., while living and working in community with each other, sharing expenses and ideas. They are able to complete degrees with $0 tuition and $0 debt.
@abertaI I graduated in "71, should have been "70. Total student debt was $1,550 and I didn't know how I was going to pay $33 a month for 5 years. I look back and laugh.
1
@Paul
The problem with the ton of jobs you refer to are temporary. Construction work is an example. So is line work when the parts are all of a sudden brought in from foreign manufactures and you are laid off. Amazon and Walmart have a lot of jobs at their convenience.
What this country has done to our education system is criminal. A part of ronnie's great risk shift. Government at all levels has cut back funding and in some cases funds the wrong things. We are on a downhill slope unless we change our way of paying for education.
15
As an international graduate student, I simply just do not understand why governments of all levels aren't subsidizing higher education even further. With the number of manufacturing and manual labour jobs on the decline, higher education seems to be the only way to keep everyone across the country employed on decent living wages. Plus in the long term, it would also significantly reduce the brain drain the US requires to stay competitive with other developed nations.
11
State and the federal government has allowed universities to price gouge students, and there's no end in sight. The education I received in the 80s at a top tier private institution would be over 10 times the cost today. Match that against inflation and the numbers don't come close to adding up.
One must also consider the quality and usefulness of the education students receive. Do you want to pay thousands of dollars to be taught by a professor who has never set foot outside of academia? Archaic rules regarding faculty requirements keep award-winning professionals away from spending their golden years teaching the minds of tomorrow. Theory is nice, but real world application taught by those who know is much more valuable for the vast majority of careers.
I learned more about marketing in the first 6 months of working in the industry than I did in all four years of college. For many, investing the tens of thousands of dollars saved for college elsewhere might be the best move.
10
It took me 13 years to complete my undergrad and graduate degrees while working a full time corporate job. My company paid for my degree and in return I gave them at least 60 hours a week. I took two classes every semester, including summers (with the occasional semester break for sanity).
Most notable is that this path made the cost 50% more expensive because the first 6 credits are more expensive than the full load. At NYU a semester was $10K (12+credits 1997) but 6 credits was $7K.
It is unfortunate that part timers have to pay more and worse today as $5,250 doesn't cut it anymore and few companies offer it.
18
About a half century ago, I managed to graduate from UConn in 5+ years through a combination of full and part time school and finished with a wife, a baby on the way, and a student loan total of the ungodly amount of $1,550. I was lucky enough to have fairly steady work that basically paid for 90% of my expenses. (My parents were big on paying your own way, which I also agreed with.) Todays students cannot earn enough during a school year to pay their own way. This is indeed a situation where the Good Old Days were indeed just that for college students that were attending state colleges and universities. Now a college grad an wind up with insurmountable debt and no reasonable way to pay it.
14
Note that when Ronald Reagan was Governor of California, ALL residents of that State were offered the opportunity to attend any college of their choice within the University of California system tuition free. So, what Bernie Sanders and others are now advocating is hardly a radical/liberal/socialist concept. Unfortunately, in response to Proposition 13 and other tax-reduction measures -- that were adopted by the Republican Party as part of its self-serving small government policy, tuition free college became unfeasible because of insufficient tax revenues due to all of these tax cuts. Other States likewise followed the same foolish policy, although in most cases, they offered very low -- rather than free-- tuition. But, low tuition ensured that students could complete their education by earning enough money to pay their way during the summer -- as I and many others did. The problem was compounded further with respect to medical education. Rather than do that through tax revenues, the faculties of medical schools were urged to make up the money lost because of tax cuts by practicing medicine at a university hospital on a fee per service basis. This left little or no time to devote to clinical research, one of the mainstays of a well-run medical school and the basis for medical advancements throughout the past many years.
There is no free lunch; one gets exactly what one pays for. How is the common good served by any of these foolish measures?
39
Many commenters will say they had to work when they were in college, what's the problem, stop whining, and why are you getting a worthless journalism degree.
I find Americans are no longer nice people. They've turned into intolerant haters. It's very disturbing.
I worked while I was in college, but I went to college when working meant you could graduate debt-free. And, I didn't have to work a forty-hour work week to do it. Work/study programs were common at 20 hours a week, tops. Summer jobs took care of the rest. Then, there were middle class parents who were actually able to save a few bucks to send their kids to college.
That is less and less the case now, and I'm stunned that college administrators would tell students to quit working. That's just not feasible for many. It's not realistic.
If it's true, as this article claims, that students lose their scholarships if they are not full-time students, then the definition of "full time" will have to be changed. The only solution I see is for universities to set up six year degree programs as well as four year programs. I know, that will make course scheduling difficult, but what other choice is there? The picture this student paints is all too common now.
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@CF
This is why our political discourse has become so vile and fruitless...sorry, but because one opines that students should work, stop whining, or the like, does NOT make them into "intolerant haters"! They simply have a different opinion from you. Perhaps even a wrong opinion in the grand scheme but none of it constitutes "hate" by any reasonable standard!
5
@CF I think it is true: my scholarship was contingent on full-time enrollment.
3
Higher education today is a scam, pure and simple. The sooner the bubble bursts, the better. We should start by ending all taxpayer aid to colleges at any level, including grants and tax breaks. It'll be a nasty dose of cold turkey and many will suffer, mostly students, but the alternative is a massive collapse that will be even worse.
4
@Daedalus...my degree at Arizona State University allows me to follow my passion into the classroom and teach. A scam you say? In what way?
4
@Daedalus Hardly a scam. I have 3 kids that went to college and all are in professions that need an undergraduate degree. Rather then have our system of higher education crash and burn, we should change the way federal loans are given out. If a student defaults in the future then 50% of the loan default will be paid for by the college the student graduated from. Things will shake out much differently if they have some skin in the game. Of course there are other things we can also do, but higher education is not a scam.
1
Further argument for a national salary. Its not welfare, its a means of bettering oneself and society simultaneously.
3
Ms Stauffer is fortunate that she has had the determination to stay with it. It is unlikely to get easier, nor should it. It is the way it is. I was one of those who after three years of school and 30-40 hr work weeks and loans ran out of money and left. Today, for every person entering the Plumbing, HVAC and Electrical trades, 5 are retiring. Perhaps it is better to become a journeyman Pipefitter AND THEN go to school. More mature and a better idea of what you want going forward with the ability to make some real money along the way. Stick with it Ms Stauffer!
8
i put myself through college and grad school with scholarships, loans, and working, but that was a long time ago when the wages a student could earn actually made a dent in tuition
just roll up the ladders and close the gates and make it official -- the race belongs to those with a headstart
14
I am almost 70 years old now but I worked 30 hours a week all through my undergraduate and graduate school years. I watched my classmates spend their summer vacations traveling through Europe while I worked and went to summer school. I have no regrets. Sure it was hard and I did at the time feel sorry for myself. But in later years, I did get my opportunity to travel but I went first class. I also paid for all 3 of my children’s degrees with cash and they don’t owe any money. My Mother had a fifth grade education and worked hard her entire life. Her parents couldn’t even read. It usually takes 3 generations for descentants to benefit from their ancestors’ hard work. You work hard not only for yourself but also your children and grandchildren.
61
My experience and other reports suggest that professors have adjusted to their working students: they assign fewer books to read and papers to write. Students are not getting the same education that was required in the past. The cost of college has gone up. Accreditation bodies require more and more evidence and documentation that require hours and hours to meet, meaning more non-teaching staff have to be hired. And, the real reason for increased cost to students—the states no longer support higher education (or any education) at the rates they did in the past. One of my former University Presidents said in the last 1980’s that our university was no longer a state supported school, but a state assisted university.
23
I am happy that the writer was able to work full time and still be successful with her schoolwork. That is not necessarily the reality for many other students.
Academic advisors provide recommendations based on what a 'typical' student can reasonably achieve. If a student spends many hours working and fails a class or two or more the cost of retaking coursework may exceed the earnings at the work place. Most students believe that they will be students like the writer - able to do both.
Academic advisors think reasonably based on experience that percent of students actually able to do this is small. (Not sure about data on this? Maybe not? Dependent on choice of major and many other factors probably?) Even if this percent is very, very small most students will still think that they will surely 'beat the odds'.
Additionally the author doesn't mention what outside of school and work she did or didn't do. It should be mentioned that the full time school, full time work life allows for little else and sacrificing one's social life will be required.
There are only so many hours in the day and a person may not be able to 'have it all'.
12
I think colleges are following the same guidelines as high school employment laws. Where I grew up, you weren't legally allowed to work more than 15-20 hours a week. You also couldn't begin working before the age of fourteen. Below sixteen, you needed working papers from your school. Keep in mind, many community colleges do congruent course work. A sizable chunk of your community college may in fact be minors without a high school degree.
You're on better ground in grad school but only barely. Universities do tailor grad programs to meet work requirements. Almost all grad programs at my local university hold class in the evenings. Generally, 7-9 or 9-11. An unemployed student isn't looking to be in a lecture hall at 11 o'clock at night. That's an accommodation for professionals. Moreover, certain programs tailor their curriculum to meet different career requirements. The MBA program has different paths depending on whether you're a recent undergrad, mid-career, or full executive. You can't really blame the system because you chose the wrong program.
That said, I'll agree the biggest problem with education isn't tuition. The biggest problem is cost of living. There should be a stipend for full-time students at any public institution. Nothing fancy. Just a basic subsidy to cover meager food and lodging. 15-20 hours a week can cover your personal expenses. That would be a more sensible public program. However, you don't hear anyone floating the idea.
3
Kudos to the author for her hard work and, so far, success. I also agree with some frustration here in the peanut gallery about lack of real suggestions. The obvious solutions involve more public/government funding for education -- increased Pell grants from the Federal government and increased state funding for public universities. The (mostly Republican) plutocrats who make decisions in Washington and state houses oppose these ideas because they would rather fill the coffers of their for-profit university investor buddies while indenturing and bankrupting the underclass. So we need to replace these politicians. While we're at it, we should get rid of education tax credits, which are subsidizing the education of rich kids and increasing costs at already expensive institutions.
18
This is a forceful, cogent piece. I agree that colleges and universities should do more by way of making it possible for students to work while studying. At the same time, it isn't fair or logical to expect universities to pay for the actions of legislatures that have been disinvesting in higher education. Much of the blame rests with the states, many of which have been withdrawing support for higher education since the Seventies and Eighties. Some states have adopted an ideologically-driven vendetta against public education (as a proxy for the idea and reality of everything public sector) by defunding their public universities -- Colorado and Michigan are especially bad actors in this respect. While the federal government gets most of the blame, in fact the states have been more actively at war against public education over the past forty years. Hold your state representatives to account for refusing to invest in the future of their constituents, individually and collectively, while they send their own children to elite privates schools.
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@Livie
Certainly legislatures share a big part of the blame for the costs of college. But don't let the colleges off the hook so easily - they are the ones who create huge bureaucracies with layers of needless administrators, sometimes more than actual educators; it is the colleges who push for campus facilities of lavish proportions to look good in glossy brochures or to "compete" more on amenities than the quality of the education offered all of which must be paid off in higher tuitions; it is the colleges who favor athletics over academics; and on and on.
There is plenty of blame to go around.
37
@George S: Good points. However, part of the reason for the "glossy" image is because higher ed, having moved to the corporate model, is giving the "customers" what they want. The glossy brochures are meaningless if the desire from the group being marketed to isn't there (of course, it's also possible that the marketing presents them with a desire they didn't know they had in the first place). When those students who can afford it demand all the amenities, which require people to oversee them, we end up in the situation you describe, with more administrators and less full-time, tenure-track faculty (i.e., more adjuncts, who are cheaper). All of this certainly means that the students pay more to get what they think they need (that is, what they desire), including those who can't afford those amenities.
2
@George S
No, it's not the college that pushes for better facilities and sports, it's the parents and students. The Admissions joke (with a big kernal of truth) is that students apply to the college with the best climbing wall. Really, it's not far from the truth.
Just like any other organization, if you don't update and grow, you will likely go broke. Colleges market to students. Students won't attend an old stodgy school with no locker rooms. Parents are even worse than students in the demands they make. If colleges don't take care of little Johnny just perfectly, parents sue. I've seen it done.
1
You act like a working student is a new phenomena. I worked from my junior year in high school and have not stopped since. I also completed my undergraduate degree in 3 1/4 years, with a high gpa and worked 60 hours a week while I completed my master's in 3 years, also graduating with a high gpa before grade inflation existed. It's not up to the school to make it work for you. Life doesn't make it work for you and an employer certainly won't either. You do what you have to do and if you have the will there is a way.
20
@Anita . If you were in school before grade inflation existed, they you were in school at a time when higher education was affordable and it was possible to pay for it as you went. That is simply not the case anymore.
7
@Marc Goldstein you missed the point. No one made amends for my work schedule (20 hours a week in undergrad) so I could have it a little easier in school. I did not claim that school was cheaper way back when. My point was that it is possible to work and go to school like the non-working people and make good grades without getting special treatment.
This piece is a reasonable plea for help but does not offer any suggestions.
My suggestion: cut the cost of college and graduate school by increasing the teaching load of professors.
Most professors I know teach no more than 16 hours per week. The remaining time is allocated to "research".
Some research is obviously hugely beneficial to mankind.
But to be honest, most research by most professors is a waste of time, as the resources are used to discover useless, arcane details of a knowledge base that is only fuel for more research.
Working in industry, I typically work about 50 hours per week. When we are "busy", that can go up to well over 60 hours per week.
(yes, I know, the professors say that 16 hours of teaching time, plus time for office hours, marking papers, and preparation time, really means putting in over 30 hours. I simply do not buy that)
Decreasing funding for research, and increasing teaching time by professors (or the increased use of adjuncts !), will decrease the cost of college tuition.
7
@G
Very true. As for research, one can make an argument, no doubt, for departments in the sciences, for example, engaging in research, but exactly how much truly worthwhile research, not just "publish or perish" page filling dreck really can come from departments in social areas, gender studies, etc. The demand for research time needs to be parceled out to those areas that actually lend themselves to it.
5
@G: You don't buy that the time it takes for course prep, grading, meeting one-on-one with students, answering emails, committee work, professional development, creating new courses, developing curriculum, conducting research, and all of the other unseen job duties a professor performs, in addition to classroom or lab time, adds up to at least 30 hours a week?
Most (good) professors also work, on average, 50-60 hours per week. For example, I work evenings and throughout the weekend, though I'm only in the classroom 12 hours per week. I spent much of my unpaid summer creating reading guides to enhance my students' learning and surveys to see if they're working. Any guesses how many hours that took?
For the most part, it's not professor salaries that is the most expensive aspect of college, especially in this age of adjunctification. Indeed, you'd probably be surprised at how low the average professor's salary is, considering his/her professional status.
You're discrediting intellectual labor. Not everyone works with their hands or on their feet, and that's okay.
32
@George S To both of you, Who decides what research is "worthwhile" and what isn't? This argument is cutting spending on humanities education, across the board. Art, literature, and the study of society benefit mankind in equal measure to the hard sciences. Heaven knows if some students studied the rise of the European far-right, maybe the Western world wouldn't be repeating those same mistakes today.
2
I think that employers can be part of the solution, offering "bridge" support between students and workers. They benefit from having a more educated and skilled talent pool by contributing to the success of working learners. Many high-road employers are already doing so.
4
If you are going on to an Art's graduate school whether a Masters or a PhD and you don't have a full ride, then you have ignored the external signals and you are pursuing education for a 'fun' degree.
Graduate school for the academically talented is free and often pays $30K/year.
And I don't mean to be cruel but why is the author pursuing a Masters in Journalism in this day and age?
13
@SteveRR
This is exactly what I tell my students. If they are going to a higher-end institution (and why go at all if it's not a higher-end institution) and the university isn't providing a tuition waiver and some sort of additional support then the student is at the low end of their admitted students. The tuition that student pays will pay for the fellowships of the students at the high end.
4
OK, where is the solution, here? It's not news that a college (and especially graduate school) education is expensive. What is the author contributing?
8
I have found that the professors at community colleges are far more in touch with the realities of both their students as well as the real world in general. One reason is that many of these teachers are juggling multiple jobs not just teaching in order to survive. It seems that the most out of touch places and faculty are small selective liberal arts colleges that exhibit no understanding of what the real world contains, and what an increasing number of their students must cope with just to survive. Thank god for community colleges.
9
Very nice piece, well written and argued. Still, I was looking for suggestions for solutions to this challenging situation for students. What can universities do to support students who work off campus to keep body and soul together? I admire my students who work to support themselves in college, and this was my experience throughout my life as a student - completed doctoral degree. What can we do for our working students?
5
Higher education is a privilege. Not a right or entitlement. One has to choose and decide whether the investment is worthwhile. Like any products on the supermarket shelf, there are similar products with high price and low price. You balance quality, convenience and cost. That's what makes this country great. Unfortunately, the more the government subsidizes the high tuition cost, the less incentive that the higher education industrial complex has to bring the cost down...
11
@CC
Higher education is not a privilege. Higher education is a necessity. Welcome to the 21st century.
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@CC
If only it were so simple. Your supermarket shelf analogy assumes a relatively equal playing field for all shoppers, but this is not the case. Some can purchase the expensive, high quality grass-fed steaks regularly with little to no sacrifice or weighing of factors, while for others it's not even a possibility because they're trying to get by on minimum wage or are saddled by debt. There is no balancing the different factors for those outside a slice of the public who fall in the middle. This is true as well of higher education. For those coming from well off families, it's not really a risk; for those who come from less well off families, it's a huge risk in part due to the massive debt accumulated afterwards. Higher education is an entitlement for the well off - wealthier families can prepare their children for good colleges from the get go by getting into the best preschools, paying for tutors and trips, etc. It's assumed from day one they they'll go to a good school and will be supported financially the whole way. Higher education is only a privilege for the not well off because they do not have the resources. Access to higher education is a key factor in reducing or perpetuating the increasing economic inequality in the US, and the worse this gets, the less relevant hard work and dedication is in getting ahead, aka, high inequality removes equality of opportunity and reduces inter-class mobility.
16
Most jobs - even starter jobs - require a college degree. It's how employers narrow the pool of employees, often without regards to the applicability of the applicant's college major to the job. If you want a job, in many cases you don't have the "privilege" of foregoing higher education.
17