The GOP continue to abet Trump & work to avoid their conman being prosecuted for laundering billions of $ for the Russian oligarchs. So it is up to a friend (Canada) to set the example for the Excited States and start the intervention. Let`s hope Canada says 'Not so fast" and that Congress remembers that WH`s mandate is for a trilateral trade agreement NOT a bilateral one.
4
Any Mexican or Canadian who listened to Rush Limbaugh today knows President Trump will still be at the helm of America and which party will still control its house and senate after fall pruning.
1
So far this lady felt, based on what she see and read in fake news, that Trump is a buffoon. Now she understands who Trump is and rushed to WH to see Trump. Good that this lady and Canada learned what is really happening in America. What Trump wants is fair trade by reducing tariffs on American agricultural products. Hope this minister will oblige and stop believing in fake news.
2
Hey Canada! He's bluffing. And he's so enmeshed in his narcissistic worldview that he doesn't realize he can't always make things happen just by tweeting them.
9
I agree that the Trump administration's attitude toward Canada is arrogant and myopic. The George W. Bush administration was similar when Canada refused to join the looming Iraq debacle.
However, many commentators here misunderstand the following:
1. It doesn't matter whether Canada runs a slight trade deficit with the U.S. It's perfectly possible for that to be true and yet for the terms of trade to be unfair toward the U.S., if they in fact are.
2. It doesn't matter that Canadian stores are full of American goods. If Canada doesn't produce things for itself, stores can be full of American goods even if (repeating myself) the terms of trade are unfair toward the U.S., if they in fact are.
3. Canada could bolster its economic vitality and present a more united front if it didn't suffer from being a no-free-trade country internally. This will shock many Americans who know little about Canada, but provinces are allowed to impose trade barriers against one another and they do. It's incredibly foolish and undermines the whole country.
Moreover ...
It's crazy to risk upsetting NAFTA simply to humor (humour) inefficient Quebec dairy farmers. Let them compete!
The organic milk I had in Trail and Rossland, B.C., recently, was indeed outstanding. However, those railing about "ghastly" U.S. dairy products leave me scratching my head, when our stores are full of high-quality dairy products, mass-produced and artisanal both.
3
Sad the school yard bully denigrates its greatest friend Canada
He who laughs last laughs best This will motivate Canada to seek better friends for trade and international cooperation Canada still has one of the worlds graeest repositories of natural resources EG Water the cleanest in the world which The USa lacks today - Oil- Wheat
2
The administration acts as if Mexico is in the bag but the tweet from the Mexican president indicated agreement of Canada was required. If Canada does not buy in, a delay by Mexico would bring in the new Mexican president who may have new demands of his own. At that point the deal has no "art".
2
Legally, Trump can't renegotiate NAFTA without Canada. It seems to me that Canada has a pretty strong negotiating position.
10
@Pam
Legally? Illegality never stood in the way of his property developing - where he could stiff, bribe, harass, stonewall and bully until his victims lost the ability to seek redress in the Courts. Constitutional and international trade law are not likely subjects he or his devoted fans have much familiarity with.
3
This Canadian -and former (thank god) American) does not understand why any American would want to shaft Canada. Does Congress agree that Canada must join by Friday, or is this ignorant bully Trump just making noise?
9
Why is the NYTimes writing that the US could leave canada out when they know full well that all 3 parties want an agreement? Isn't it time the NYTimes stopped creating discord and start reporting responsibly on actual policy desires vs. DC discussions in conference rooms? I realize they are trying to own the resistance for the sake of their profit margins and some arrogant thought that the NYTimes knows more and should direct US policy vs. report on it, but that is destructive to the nation.
4
Mexico colluded with China to hide $2 billion of Chinese aluminium in Mexico then sneak it into the US as if it was Mexican aluminum.
Trump is correct in not tolerating endemic corruption and systemic unfairness inherent in NAFTA.
Democrats have turn against American manufacturers apparently because most are Republicans. As Obama said,"these jobs are NEVER coming back". Trump thinks this is wrong and many blue collar folks agree and will vote accordingly.
4
Trump can bully his way through this one easily. Both Mexico and Canada dependent on the large USA economic might. Similarly, China is also a large economic might in the pacific. They will also throw their might and renminbi around. The TPP was to be a counter balance. But it had Obama’s fingerprints on it. Now trump the stable genius wants his own version of a TPP with HIS fingernails in it. Mexico realizes that it has little wiggle room. Canada on the other hand has more than Mexico in terms of interconnection. Let trump be trump i say. Walk away from Canada Wilbur Ross. Hopefully Canada won’t back down. Friends don’t let friends be bullies.
5
Don’t worry America, we still value our friendship and relationship with the United States highly. We understand that these childish threats made by the Trump Administration, come from a malignant narcissist who is all too aware of his unpopularity in Canada. If Canada was the 51st state, there is a zero probability that the United States would be run by a complete doofus. It would be an accomplished Adult Hillary Clinton that would be in charge.
None the less, I am really impressed with Trudeau and particularly Chrystia Freeland and the way they are handling this situation. As mature adults. They are taking the logical view that they have to play the hand they are dealt with well. Not to behave like a silly immature child that needs to get its way otherwise it will throw a tantrum.
Canada, is after all 1/10th the size of the United States. Moreover, all things considered it has been a productive and beneficial relationship for the past 100 years or so.
I predict it’s future will continue on that way long into the future. Who knows, maybe in a few years Donald Trump will sitting in a prison cell in his orange jumpsuit pining for the days he had tea with the Queen and he was a best bro with Justin Trudeau.
7
Dear Canada,
Please do NOT panic. You will be fine. The people who will suffer the most from the incompetent administration in DC are US citizens. Make your deal directly with Mexico and the rest of this hemisphere. You cannot count on any deal from this uninformed joke of an administration to be fair or followed.
I love your country,
Leslie
13
Dear WORLD, as a representative of the USA I would like to apologize for the blind partisanship (and Russian hackers) we have been infected with that has placed a GOON into our top leadership role. They knew that if you ant to bring down a giant, all it takes is one proverbial head-shot to the system. And now you all suffer for it. The MAJORITY of the people in the USA profusely apologize for this mess. We ingot it is disruptive not only to our own national affairs, but to yours as well. Please be patient, as the left will rise and one day will stamp out the right-wing ignorance that plagues our nation like a bad staph infection.
3
[Scene: White House. President droning while staring out the Oval office window]
C'mon. Listen to me Chrystia. A trilateral agreement only requires two parties. Tri is the Greek word for two. Everybody knows that. We did all the work for Canada already. Just agree to all of my demands and we can be friends again.
Chrystia.
Chrystia?
5
I do not like the way Mr. Trump conducts his less than civil discourse. That being said, any businessman knows that to make a deal you have to be prepared to walk away. I believe Mr. Trump understands this though many readers of this piece do not. That’s is why he has taken the positions he has on NAFTA and the Iranian nuclear deal. Will it work out? I don’t know, because not all deals work out. That is life. But I for one am willing to give him a chance.
10
Trump does not have the power to walk away from NAFTA, as Trade agreements are adopted by Congress. The Canadian Government is led by a competent Prime Minister, a competent Minister of Foreign Affairs, and a competent Chief Trade Negotiator, so they can call this bluff. Don't get me wrong, they will try to negotiate a good agreement for all three countries. However, if the negotiations fail and Trump decides to "pull out", they know that it will never amount to anything.
8
This is how real negotiations take place. The world is shocked when the Trump Administration shows up to the table with an assertive new attitude.
15
Imagine that--a US president finally using the leverage other nations' dependence on US trade gives us to redress imbalances in trade agreements.
For forty years after WW2 the US consciously structured trade deals with a primary goal of promoting the economies of other nations, to prevent them from falling into the trap of communism. That made sense when communism was a threat, but all it did after the Cold War ended was to harm American workers and their families. Millions of manufacturing jobs were lost to "developing" countries, while craftier nations like Germany, where labor costs are greater than the US, applied a shadow protectionism to promote their interests at our expense. For all those who claim the US manufacturing sector was hollowed out simply because of high labor costs, take a look at how Germany protected their manufacturing sector, and try to tell us that government policies cannot prevent the loss of jobs to globalization.
And now Trump has done the unthinkable--he has finally begun to employ the same trade tactics other nations have used for years, and we're discovering how much economic clout we have. And so the Canadian trade minister has come scurrying home in a panic to pay homage to a US economy his country is totally dependent on.
22
Germany doesn't practice protectionism. Their manufacturing costs are high. And any citizen from anywhere in EU is welcome to settle down and work. More open than US.
And yet they are competitive because of their quality of work. In US that quality was present in WW2.
50
@Chuck French I think it's telling of your reading comprehension and general worldview that the Canadian minister "scurrying" to the negotiating table is of course a man. Please try reading the article, you might learn a fact or two that you're completely ignoring in your blind rush to defend 45.
22
@Chuck French11%of the electricity Canada generates is exported to the U.S. There are 34 major international transmission lines. Maybe we should shut off the flow of electricity to your country. Then we will see whose economy is dependent on whose.
And the Canadian foreign minister is a her not a he. No doubt that enrages your misogynist in chief who can't stand powerful women.
27
Aside from the fact that this tentative agreement with Mexico has a long way to go before it is approved by all three countries as a revision to NAFTA, I have seen no reliable analysis in the general press of what it might mean for US auto production, auto prices and jobs. At face value it seems to be a relatively small tweak that could have been negotiated with much less bluster and hard feelings among neighbors.
5
As a Canadian I’m not too sure we should be defending supply management. I’ve tasted American milk, sampled American cheese and used the American butter. “American” when used before a food product obviously means artificial.
Our chicken and dairy producers may experience an upset but will survive.
3
@R. Koreman
Surely then we SHOULD be defending it vigorously? I REALLY do not want American hormone containing milk mixed in with Canadian milk - it's not safe - we need only look at the evidence - increasingly early puberty and obesity are correlated to this. No thanks...and I haven't even gotten started on the sovereignty question of being able to supply our own food.
2
@R. Koreman
I think Canadians might agree with you IF the US removed its 73% subsidy to dairy producers farm gate prices to make the playing field level. According to the US Dept. of Agriculture, last year the US exported $US636 Million of dairy products to Canada and imported $US162 Million from Canada, almost a 4:1 US advantage. Given that combined dairy trade of $US680 Million (giving the US a $US474 Million trade surplus in dairy) represents 0.1% of the total $680 Billion US - Canada trade last year is a minor blip. Trump just likes saying 300% in front of TV cameras.
The US dairy problems (38% drop in US raw milk prices in the last 4 years) has nothing to do with trade with Canada and everything to do with overproduction caused by the US Farm Bill subsidies.
It is in Canada's food security interests to protect the dairy industry. I can't say as much for the US 300% tariff on imported tobacco - that makes no sense.
4
There are no Canadian cars. American car companies based in Canada sell cars to Canadians like they are domestic.
The Canadian government should invite China into Canada to manufacture cars .
Ottawa should swiftly declare that NAFTA Chapters 5 and 11 are dead. No more national treatment of US business in Canada, and no more oil to the USat the same price to Canadian firms.
That will get their attention.
4
Good luck shipping that oil over the Rockies rather then down for refining in Texas and Louisiana.
2
@nick: you really have not been to Canada, driven though or taken a train across their Rockies nor understand how the tar sand is currently shipped. That much is obvious. Luck has nothing to do with it. All it requires is will and a little extra capital.
1
The US imports more petroleum products from Canada, than all of the Opec nations combined. Seems to me that Canada could also play hardball at some point if it so chose...if, you know, people decided that enough is enough.
7
When heel spur comes up with a US Mexico deal out of nowhere, how can we trust who it is good for. Didn't he say he wanted a done deal by Friday? He just bullies his way through a deal before any of us folks get to know what is in it for sure.
I'm not against a better deal than nafta but what are we getting and what will we lose? It seems that he really works for Corporations and big oil, not working folks. All his deals give a little something and take away a lot from the 99%. Lets read it and talk about it before bone spurs seals the deal. It's our country, not his.
I will never trust him! I'm sorry but I can't
10
Canada does not want to be left out in the cold. They will renegotiate the one sided NAFTA deal that Clinton foisted on the American people, and like Mexico, they will capitulate to Trump. It's amazing how many comments here actually root against a better deal for American manufacturers and the jobs that will be created with a better deal. It appears that the left prefers that Mexico and Canada continue to reap the rewards of NAFTA while America pays the price in lost jobs and business.
5
@paul Rather than speak in emotional generalities, what are the specifics about the NAFTA deal you are concerned about?
@paul
Supporting facts please.
@paul
Seriously? You have a surplus! We're not getting any great rewards - the deal has been quite balanced as far as Canada- US trade goes. Your argument is with automation.
2
Canada needs to tell Trump to take a hike. Canadians are starting to not like America. We need to look else where for a decent trade partner who knows how to negotiate without being a bully and a egotist. We can only hope that Democrats vote this November and remove this dictator from office.
17
@Don M
If only we could....there is a political price to pay if we walk away from negotiation. Workers at auto plants would never forgive any government that walked away. That said, I don't want to cave to Trump's ridiculous demands.
This Canadian does not want my country to grovel to Trump. Don't sign his agreement. America is willing to threaten and demean its former ally and friend for a few dollars.
Well Canada needs a big friend too. I hope our PM is working on a secret deal with China. I personally check where everything I buy is produced. I won't buy anything sourced in the US until my country is treated with respect.
33
@John Good for you.
3
As a US expat, I hope that Canada does not give in to Trump's bullying. NAFTA was beneficial for Mexico, the US and Canada; but it needs overhauling. In an era of climate change, maybe it is time to focus less on the car industry and more on industries which feed us and insulate us from the worst effects of climate change. Mexico has indicated that there is no deal if Canada is not onboard. So now it is up to MP Freeland to decide if Canada should throw its support to the thug in the White House.
12
The best tried and true negotiating approach taught for decades by famed Karras is "win-win", where all parties feel they get a read-only deal. This is a business negotiating approach. Apparently the bully Trump "art?" Of the deal doesn't go that way. This is a great way to ensure that parties feel cheated and will cheat on the terms in the future.
5
For Trumpkin it’s always “ I win/ you lose” which does make one wonder how he avoids the cognitive dissonance caused by being under Putin’s thumb... certainly not a “win” for Trumpkin.
3
I am reminded of the pre-WWII negotiating tactics of Germany. Is the US negotiating in good faith, or are they pushing Canada into a corner where there is no option but complete surrender or a no-win confrontation. I am disgusted by our government. Peace in our time?
22
Our local paper reports that certain (unspecified) members of Congress declare that Canada cannot be excluded from NAFTA without ratification by Congress of the amended pact with Mexico. After all, Congress ratified the NAFTA accord, which makes it U.S. law --- something the Executive Department cannot unilaterally change.
12
I am no fan of NAFTA. Free trade encouraged manufacturers to relocate to Mexico, where their workers were paid slave wages and had none of the safety or environmental protections they would have had here. Americans lost jobs, and others were exploited and poisoned.
Great, let's require a decent minimum wage there. I won't argue that. But let's also require that any American company overseas has to provide the same safety and pollution controls that they would need here (not that there are many left). First, because it's the right thing to do, and second, because that may make them hesitant to leave.
4
@AG
The Trump administrations main goal has been to gut regulations on everything. The USA is now trailing the world in regulations, safety and workers rights.
10
The Canadian foreign minister thinks this the deal is good for the workers too. This deal raises the wages of Mexican workers. The left likes this deal inside. They know it is best for our country and it looks to be good for the workers of North America. But they will bash it because it is Trump that is making it happen. Politics and power first the people second is the democrat way.
3
@Jim If you really think what you say in your last line, you haven't been paying attention to what Trump has been doing. Tax cuts for the wealthy adding a trillion dollars to the deficit? You're paying for that. Self-dealing and personal enrichment run amok? You're paying for that too. Gutted regulations protecting clean air and water? Well, your children and grandchildren will pay for that one.
It is the worst kind of willful blindness for someone to assert that the grifter in the WH cares about people over power. SMH.
11
Trump's push this week is just a way to grab some spotlight from Senator McCain. Mexico and Canada should be speaking directly, and announce Friday that they are too busy to deal with Trump, as they are honoring McCain.
9
Donald Trump must have not paid attention while in business school. He worries too much about the wrong deficit. He appears consumed by the trade deficit which is more of a scorecard of the flow of goods and services between countries. His tax bill on the other hand helped to create the largest (or bigliest) budget deficit in history. He believes that running a trade deficit means that our country is losing money. If he only understood that the dollars we send overseas or across our borders ultimately can only be used to buy US goods or debt. That dollar may pass through many foreign hands, but at some point it will have to be used to buy American products. The deficit forces us to borrow money and pay interest on that debt. Wake up Donald from Queens. Your economic policies are backwards and hurting America. Your tariffs are disrupting US commerce, and your corporate tax cuts are burdening the next generations with crushing debt. You are however, succeeding in Making the Affluent Great Again.
32
@Larry Barnowsky
Mr. Barnowsky you understand the present situation perfectly.
5
Like any international treaty NAFTA probably did revising. But the thuggish way in which Trump has gone about negotiating with our allies is absolutely not the way Americans should want their government to operate. I am embarrassed to be a citizen of a country whose leadership is represented by the likes of Donald J. Trump. Surely America is better than this embarrassment we call "the President" and those who represent and support this President.
19
It's almost as if our "Russian president" is trying to destroy ties with all of closest allies right under our noses.
This is not diplomacy-- this is calculated weakening from the inside via the Trojan Horse.
16
@Christopher Diggs Read Jonathan Chait's long and persuasive piece in the NY Magazine on why all the evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, points to Trump being a Russian asset. Not an agent or anything silly like that - but an actual asset.
2
It's unfortunate--the seething liberal hatred of Trump prevents the Left from engaging in any form of rationality in considering what is good for our country. It matters not, that liberals were once the greatest critics of NAFTA--they hate Trump MORE than NAFTA.
Instead of just complaining about an agreement unfair to our manufacturers--and especially our workers--he did something about it. He pulled out and renegotiated. Everyone knew is should be done. He did it.
Trump is not an intellectual. He's certainly not a polished orator--like Reagan, Obama or Bill Clinton. His use of the English language is ham-fisted, and sometimes cringe-worthy. But he does have strengths. He identifies problems that have been long-festering, and possesses the courage to tackle them. He is quick to identify strengths and weaknesses--which helped him dispatch 17 talented Republican hopefuls in the primary--and then Hillary in the general--despite the mainstream press, the FBI and Justice Dept working to undermine him.
Trump understands access to the U.S. market is important for any country. He knows how to use that strength to wrangle concessions from our trading partners. This needs to be done, and is being done.
Say what you will of Trump (liberals can think of nothing positive), he ran on dumping NAFTA. He was not content to allow deficits to pile up based on our disadvantages in the agreement. Now Canada has come running. China is next. Putting America first!
14
@Jesse The Conservative
We have a surplus with Canada when you combine goods & services.
The article points out the difference between trade and fiscal deficits.
Trump has not once pointed to a specific aspect that needed to be corrected in NAFTA (there are some but he just blabbers worst ever).
TPP included Canada and Mexico and addressed some of the NAFTA weak points.
P.S. Canada and Mexico steel & al industries are not a threat to the US. Loosing their goodwill is.
7
I'm not sure if this "renegotiation" benefits anyone but Mexico. I can't wait for dear leader to tell manufacturers to pay a minimum of 16 dollars an hour to US employees.
1
@Jesse The Conservative - Actually, the mark of a true leader, is that he considers both sides in any deal, and understands that if you bully the other party into accepting something that's better for you, but might hurt them, it's going to come back and bite you, somewhere down the line. This is the difference between Canada, and the US. In Canada, we're always trying to consider the needs of others. I guess that's why we pay the same income tax rates you do, but we have a really good social safety net, universal healthcare, and don't allow our citizens to be murdered en masse so that arms manufacturers can make a buck. We try hard to put people before profit, and you do the opposite. The US may "win" this war you've started with you allies, but ultimately, we look at your endless self serving behaviour, and want as little to do with you as possible. Most of my family and friends won't even visit your country anymore, and I know that I won't. I used to go to New York at least once every couple of years. The last time was in 2016, and I won't return until your country starts treating the rest of the world with respect.
12
You’re all out of control for letting this incompetent poor excuse for a politician run wild for so long! Enjoy undoing his work for decades to come!
14
As usual, Trump is huffing and puffing and bluffing. Canada should sit him out. I am sure that other countries are happy to negotiate beneficial trade deals with Canada. Canada needs to economically untether themselves from the US/Trump. Then watch US automakers whine like crazy and Trump will retreat.
14
How diplomatic of Trump.
Wilbur Ross and trump are under investigations for a multitude of crimes. trump threatens our country with violence if he doesn't get his way. His trump Org. attorney, who worked for his Dad who's partner was the Mob, is talking to Mueller. A Citizens banker who worked with Manafort, had his penthouse broken into last night and his briefcase was stolen. Two men have died in trumpTower in the last few months. Ivanka and Jared, Don jr and the other one circle the globe on our dime doing business. This is the potus who is deciding things for Canada and Mexico? My God.
10
Trump is simply trying to blackmail Canada into sacrificing its farmers by allowing over-producing American farmers to dump government-subsidized, hormone-induced American milk into Canada in exchange for a deal in cars. If American milk production was tied to American milk consumption this wouldn't be necessary and you'd have profitable farmers and no government subsidies.
14
"The effects would be especially severe for the global auto industry, which has built its supply chain around North America and relies on materials and components from Canada. Auto industry groups warned that a Nafta without Canada would drive up prices for American manufacturers and make them less competitive with foreign companies."
I think Canada should walk away as Trump knows prices rising in the US over this deal would make him look more like an idiot then he already does. This is just wrong on so many levels so he will be making America less and less competitive...
Again there was nothing wrong with NAFTA, except maybe making it better for all involved. Now we will all be worse off, I gurantee it! VOTE!!!
35
Canadian expat here: my guess is that Canada will sign. My other guess is that Canada will try to diversify so that it is not as dependent on US trade. The result will be US and Canada will grow a little further apart. All that provided we keep a Trump like govs south of the border.
4
@GeorgeK
I think you are probably right and diversification would be welcome. And that half-Canadian Elon Musk should come back and bring Tesla with him.
7
Congress can't be that foolish that they would approve a trade agreement that excluded our neighbor to the north. The United States and Canada have been close allies for so long, we won't let a Trump tantrum get in the way.
4
@Joe Barnett
I can't accept any statement claiming congress can't be that foolish.
@Joe Barnett
Congress can't be that foolish? What congress are you talking about? Not ours.
Don't catch the eye of Ivanka because Trump will bring down his wrath upon you. Trudeau is all that Trump isn't.
Only someone who hasn't been to Canada could say that the country's trade policies takes advantage of the US in trade. Almost everything in the cool blue north goes there through a US company. Go to any mall or big box store - almost all US stores. The grocery stores are full of US brands. What the US gets is raw materials that is made into goods like homes, paper products, petroleum products and the value is multiplied.
The laughable complaint by Trump admin is about the US auto industry. Canada and the US are dickering over the percentage of parts that can be Canadian (and Mexican) manufactured for US car makers. This is about Ford and GM. There is no Canadian homegrown car industry. Canadians drive American and foreign cars. There should be some manufacturing in Canada for that.
The US car industry in the NAFTA agreement, you bet, is doing what it thinks is best for their companies. If Trump doesn't like it, he should talk to them and stop taking his adolescent crush on his daughter out on the Canadian prime minister.
10
@MKKWAnd you mustn't forget Canadian tourists. Florida's economy would stagger without Canadian tourists and retirees during the winter.
2
Just walking around a Canadian Tire store gives the impression that a lot of goods sold in Canada come from China although I admit I haven’t checked the labels to verify this. The clothing I’ve purchased at CT is certainly mostly Canadian made.
Time for Canadians to head to Mexico for vacation since Florida loves their little Trumpkin so much.
Trump's way of doing business has always seemingly been to take a contract, rip it to threads, come back with different language meaning the same as before and claim 'Look at what I've done!
I've got a better deal".
Wonder what would happen if other countries just flat out said 'no deal'.
10
everyone seems to forget that despite power to negotiate trade deals based on "national security" interests Trump has no power to vacate NAFTA on his own. He cannot just replace it with bilateral deals.
The reason for Trumps hard line push is that come the Midterms he won't have or does not believe he will have the backing of Congress and his bully tactics will fail.
7
Ross’ comments disgust me... what’s his point? Bankrupt Our largest trading partner to win a trade agreement? I’m sure the Chinese government will love this one!
6
Poor Wilbur Ross...one thing this dispute does is get people’s minds off Ross’s unusual relationship with Cypriot banks where Putin’s friends (and Paul Manafort) have been stashing their cash
How’s that fantastic North Korea de-nuclearization agreement working out. (Audience laughter).
7
I take your tangential comment as acknowledgement that Trump is succeeding in his goal of reworking NAFTA towards US favor. The North Korea situation is going poorly, and hopefully it won't rise again to extreme military tension. Or else, guarenteed, Trump will be critisized for warmongering (as opposed to too much peacemaking).
3
Sweden learned a hard lesson in the real estate bubble of the early 1990’s. Since then housing loans have become more and more difficult to obtain, requiring up to 20% down payment and absolute proff of sustainable long term income. And banks calculate how much you will have left to live on once your mortgage and other costs are paid before any loan is granted.
2
Sorry, this post was in reply to a comment about the risks of a housing bubble in Canada.
4
Most Americans take Canada for granted. An example is when one says that Canada will sign any deal since to not do so would be damaging. The US threat to impose auto tariff were none now exist, to get Canada to lower non existent tariffs, makes no sense. It is almost as if American negotiators do not have a clue about the realities of Canada-US trade.
13
Trump and the republicans depend on the fact that most US citizens know nothing by at all about Canada.
Not sure what's wrong with Canada but they might take note of American realities before cutting short foreign policy missions to come kiss Donald Dummy's feet. Highly doubtful the U.S. will approve a deal with Mexico alone, to the extent any deal really exists, and it appears the Donald's authority on trade does not extend to a bilateral deal anyway. He asked for fast track on NAFTA, and last I checked that included Canada. The Senate is waiting for a deal among all 3, due Friday, thus the Dummy's haste. He's bluffing/lying his way through this as he does all else, it seems.
11
@Jack MerrillWe will see what happens. Your American politics is in it worst shape since the Vietnam War. Big mess. Makes Watergate look like nothing.
6
Along with Australia, Canada is considered to have the largest real estate bubble in the world. In the next downturn, there will be one heck of a reckoning. Add to that the fact that Canada is fundamentally a primary resource producer. In other words, they create very little high value added output in either services or goods. There is a myth that Canada is a sort of Scandinavian economy on our border, the truth is more like a Russian economy.
1
@Epicurus If Canada was more like Russia, there would be a deal in place now, with US concessions, and a military parade.
24
Oh, numbers, they’re such a nuisance.
75% of the Canadian economy is services. With a population 1/10 of the US, theirs is the 10th largest economy in the world. Instead of Russia, maybe compare it to Texas.
None of which is relevant to Trump’s nasty NAFTA campaign. Trump’s tariffs are a tax on American consumers, not on Canadians and Chinese. They’re the worst kind of tax, too: they create inefficiency and give the government a role in deciding which businesses prosper. Not industries, not technologies: individual private businesses, depending on what tariffs and exemptions are applied.
13
Why no reckoning with the last downturn then?
1
Strong arming staunch allies and coddling rogue enemies is the Trump way, but it shouldn’t be America’s. Vote Democratic in November like you life depends on it. Because it does.
24
Once again I must state the obvious. Canada has never been adverse to a FAIR trade deal to everyone involved. We have been the ones who had a slight trade deficit under Nafta up until now. Unlike the whining baby in the White House; we just accepted that overall it was good for the economies of BOTH nations and carried on with goodwill and good over all business for the vast majority of citizens on both sides of the border. Ask governors in the vast majority of their state how vital Canadian goods and resources are to their economy? You might be shocked at the answer. Still the blowhard in the White House goes on and on about how unfair the Canadian government has been. Give me a break. We will be happy to sign a FAIR deal. But if Trump thinks he will ever be able to bully us; he really is out of his mind.
16
Before Trump, these international trade decisions were called agreements. Now they are deals. Sigh.
19
Yeah, no. I seem to recall the Iran nuclear deal. I guess that language was chosen over “pact” or “agreement” because it wasn’t a treaty ratified by the senate. And now that terminology has slipped into broader use.
What’s the big deal?
“Deal” has a long and varied use in American vernacular. Don’t credit Trump with more than he’s due.
2
That fictional book k titled “The Art of the Deal” not withstanding...
1
Many of the commenters here are crowing about how tough and effective Trump's trade policies have been. The chest beaters apparently didn't read down far enough to this key paragraph: "The effects would be especially severe for the global auto industry, which has built its supply chain around North America and relies on materials and components from Canada. Auto industry groups warned that a Nafta without Canada would drive up prices for American manufacturers and make them less competitive with foreign companies."
21
What, no pressure? Mr Lightheiser insists the recent play with Mexico giving Canada until Friday is not intended as pressure, then what would pressure look like?
Since the start of the US/Canada Free Trade Agreement that predated NAFTA, manufacturing took an even larger hit in Canada than it did in the US. Fortunately Canadian businesses quickly diversified, discovered new markets and embraced the knowledge economy. Educational institutions here are quick to ask what skills are needed by industry of Canadian graduates, and they deliver.
Failure to revise the tripartite NAFTA agreement will have severe costs for all. Canada is the single largest trading partner with over 20 States. NAFTA was due for an overhaul, not to be casually discarded as some would suggest.
14
Trump got a small number of Mexican auto workers a pay raise. Now he is working on a pay raise for Canadian maple syrup producers.
5
Stay strong Canada! Your proud and marvelous country and economic principles will not become an object of humiliation and abuse by the Trump base. Informed Americans are rejecting Trump at every opportunity. Please do not cave to this rich creep.
25
In the current cooperative relationship between trading partners, it is clear to me, and doubtless tens of millions of Americans, that existing agreements, by and large, favored all partners, except for the United States.
This clarity is due to the reality that before Trump, and his "bull in the china shop" tactics, people were never focused on the international corporate collusion which resulted in the decimation of industry throughout the United States, decimination so pervasive literally millions upon millions of ordinary American jobs were exported and destroyed, driving into penury, millions of Americans.
The extraordinary economic effect on the average American, especially in the now desolate rust-belt states, is pitiful to behold; a drive, North, South, East, and West, starting in Michigan through once thriving cities and towns, is shocking; the malaise is everywhere evident, from the boarded-up places of businesses to the unkempt conditions apparent as one drives through communities looking at lives rent asunder, clearly evident in the absence of home maintenance and upkeep, because the wherewithal is gone once the jobs were exported.
So, while Trump is far from the liberal saviour, some one like Trudeau seeks to be, and pretends to be, he is causing change which is improving the lives of the long-neglected American worker, much to the chagrin of those who seek to maintain the long-in-place status quo of faux liberal concern which caused the economic devastation.
10
Very eloquently written, but your words carry no weight. You have described in vivid and concise terms the justification many give for Trump. But the true answer lies more in the mirror than across the border. Efforts were made — especially by Democrats — to institute retraining and income support programs to address dislocations caused mostly by job efficiencies like automation and consumer preference for lower cost. But Republicans staunchly stood in the way. That they should benefit politically as they have is the great irony and hypocrisy of our time.
13
I agree in part with Mr. Farrell, but his words hold a danger. Our idiot president was right about the abusive trade agreements that the so called "free trade" advocates and ivory tower economists got us into. Countries like China took advantage of our open markets while closing their markets to American made products. The results were catastrophic for American manufacturing, which declined from 30% of GDP in 1960 to 11% today.
But the bullying tactics and "take it or leave it" ultimatums of the present administration will have long term negative impact. Negotiations should have been carefully considered and executed in a more professional way. Insulting our trading partners will not solve this problem.
Our leaders from both parties sold us down the river with bad trade deals. The Democratic Party would retrain highly paid manufacturing workers into health aides, rather than address trade abuses. Democrats shouldn't feel self righteous about trade.
3
@Mel Farrell Any trade deficit with Canada is debatable: both countries have reported trade surpluses with each other in fact. And while the devastation of the American working class is undeniable and horrific, it has very little to do with Canada and more to do with American companies choosing to manufacture goods and contract services to developing countries with lower wages and less labour rights. Trade with Canada has always been relatively reciprocal, which is perhaps why Trump is singling it out (because the stakes are so low).
3
When the dust settles, and the US has better trade deals with our neighbors, liberals will have to admit Trump improved the climate for our workers. It may not have been pretty, but nothing Trump does is pretty. Just effective.
2
@DanielMarcMD You are assuming that these trade deals are what is causing job problems. Steel mills that used to need 1000 workers can now maintain the same output with only 15 - 20 workers. That, and trade keeps prices down for regular people -- why do you think the stuff at Wal-Mart is so cheap?
Liberals' issue with picking these trade fights is that they alienate other countries without doing much to help people.
11
Where are the facts that the US has been taken advantage of in these trade deals. Just because Trump says it doesn't make it true.
16
You might want to wait 'til the dust settles with regard to All The President's Lies, and what lies behind his motivation to lie serially.
Let's not forget the forthcoming report from honest, hard working, patriotic American (Special Counsel Bob Mueller) and his team of honest, hard working, patriotic Americans before attacking liberals.
Again. Or is it still?
Speaking of Climate ....
3
With a 16 year sunset clause and review every 6, or in Trumps case a renegotiation, this is a trade deal in name only. No one is going to make any major investments in manufacturing with such a limited window of opportunity.
Trudeau should sign the best deal that he can get and get busy preparing for the demise of the relationship altogether right around the end of Trump's second term when he threatens to demolish this deal for an even better one.
8
This is an example of why President Trump wants to tear down the NAFTA statue. The acronyms are symbolism of an unpleasant time, when America was disadvantaged; open borders, closing factories, bankrupt auto companies, lost middle classes. There was a time, not so long ago, when the Defense Department was called the War Department. It is hard to imagine today, how a country -- any, would create a department of war. It took a conflict that introduced nuclear warfare, to reckon our motivations in a Defense Department.
President Trump believes NAFTA to be a disgrace in trade. He's made his case with the American people, and won; let's move on. DWD?
2
@Jabin A majority of Americans and about 95% of American economists of all political stripes support NAFTA and realize it's a net gain for your country. Donald Trump believes it to be a disgrace because he doesn't understand economics, doesn't know the most basic facts, and is too arrogant to inform himself.
By the way, Trump also believes that trade wars are easy to win, that white supremacists are very fine people, that tax cuts are paying down the deficit, and that you should look directly at the sun during an eclipse.
8
The sudden move to renegotiate the NAFTA only with Mexico sans Canada is mainly inspired by Trump's unfounded ill will against the Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and partly by Trump's desire to force Canada to join the renegotiation of the deal on Trump's own terms which simply means to humiliate Canada on the trade front. All this amounts to virtually dismantling the NAFTA not for any trade reasons but because Trump wants so to cover up his own failures at the trade front.
24
It also gets people’s minds off the fact that more key players in trump’s nefarious activities have been given immunity from prosecution in the last week in order to secure their testimony against Trump. Trump is a master at changing the focus from his failures by doing or saying outrageous things.
2
Canada must become less dependent on the US for trade. This episode with Trump has taught our nation a lesson - friends can be temporary.
Canada has begun the process of looking elsewhere for new trade partners. China, South America, Africa and Europe are all god folks to do business with.
Canadians that normally would take their winter vacation in the US, including lots of Snowbirds, are looking for alternatives
like Europe, Central America and South America as an alternative. Our holiday money will be spent in Portugal instead of Florida.
Friends have told me that they are avoiding US food when they go to the supermarket. Even slightly higher priced fruit and vegetables from other countries are preferable. We will not reward Trump with buying his food.
Canadian products may get more expensive for Americans, especially lumber that will be needed the next time there is a huge natural disaster that requires trainloads of lumber to rebuild homes.
Canada is a small country in terms of population, but we are big when it comes to resolve to look after our interests. Don't mistake our politeness to mean we will cave to Trump and his temper tantrums.
30
@Lew I
We are in a similar boat, but sadly chose an American-made motorhome to winter south in, so our retirement plans have been cast. However, our home is filled with 6 American-built major appliances, and I can assure readers here that this will never, ever happen again. We will be purchasing EU, Mexican, or goods from anywhere else whenever possible, as we do with all our purchases now. Our winter plan is to enjoy the weather and the company of dear American friends and relatives while spending the absolute minimum.
3
@Lew I
Good for you and your countrymen, democracy in action.
3
@Lew I think we should all join in and do everything we can to boycott Trump's America!
2
We all have to negotiate for things in life, cars, homes, salaries to name a few. It should came as no surprise that trade agreements also need to be reviewed and revised. Just because the United States has a larger economy, doesn't give other countries license to take advantage of it. Trudeau came out swinging and while some of that is expected, at some point you've have to put things in perspective and deal with the facts. Emotions have never made good decisions and change in all aspects of life is a given. Sure, Trudeau will walk away with a black eye by his own design and will have spent some political equity, but in return he may have learned some valuable lessons that will help him lead Canada going forward.
1
@Kurt Pickard - excuse me, NAFTA wasn't taking advantage of the US, we were in a partnership where all 3 countries worked together to better each other. I know it is hard to believe, but it was a good frame-work that might have needed some work, but in practice it was working quite well for all players!
But don't worry, you will soon feel the affects of such great negotiations from Trumps and his people...
14
@Kurt Pickard Like many other leaders in the world, our prime minister has done his very best to be civil to Trump. He has made no demands knowing full well that the US is by far the more powerful party. He did ask Trump to acknowledge that the US has a substantial trade surplus with Canada when services as well as goods are taken into account.
Bullies get their way........but only in the short term. The US is our most important trading partner for now. But remember, it represents 5% of the worlds population and 25% (and shrinking) of the world economy which has matured considerably over the last two generations. Much like the UK, the US is sowing the seeds for its own economic demise.
9
@Kurt Pickard
“Came out swinging”???? When? Where? Cite a source for this claim.
2
There is no reason to belittle Canada like this administration has. The big issue is auto manufacturing and Mexican wages. Canada was on the same side as the US on this. If there was arguments it had to do with how to come up with an agreement that would deal with low Mexican wages and still have a competitive auto industry. The current formula on auto manufacturing content with Mexico was agreed to by Canada and the US earlier this year. The other issues are small in comparison and compromise can easily be reached taking Canadian concerns into account without much loss to the US.
So why belittle and threaten Canada and the Prime Minister. Spite maybe. Unnecessary hardball maybe. Who knows. The damage thou is real. Recently I visited an American who runs a Bed and Breakfast just north west of Toronto in Ontario Canada. This beautiful blond lady and her beautiful daughter were on her way back to Canada through Pennsylvania. Twice, once while stopping for a coffee and the second time to visit a mall, a vehicle goes by their vehicle which has a Canadian license plate and angrily tells the Canadians they are not welcome. How ironic to be telling an American living in Canada that she is not welcome in the US.
If the Americans tell us Canadians enough that we are not welcome, we will get the message. I might add that the new generation of Canadians, of which I am one of them, are well traveled. The US is not the center of my universe.
25
Interesting way to do statesmanship... divide, threaten and conquer.... wait until he threatens to do more, damage, to get his way. Trustless in Washington.!
17
A Trump deadline is no deadline at all and Friday is Mexico's problem not Canada's.
14
It is pretty obvious that Trump's primary interest is to end anything positive that was begun by Barack Obama. All he wants to do is to blow up trade and rebuild it essentially the same as NAFTA with a new name. I like the name I heard yesterday on one news report - "Half-a-Nafta". It pretty much sums up Trump in many ways.
13
It won't be the same NAFTA, it will be reworked to the USA's favor. If it was the same then Canada wouldn't be all uptight. At the end of the day NAFTA will be reworked towards the US, everyone here knows it but hates to admit it.
You do know that NADFTA was not created or signed into law by Obama, right?
@Just Julien
Yes we know that. Rather it was Clinton. Both so called progressive liberals. However, the key intent of NAFTA was to help build the economies of both Mexico & Canada. I think that has been done. Arguably, the prosperity which Canada enjoys now is similar to the US. Perhaps now is a good time to review the agreement. What's wrong w/ that? The Canucks are obviously upset as it changes the status quo.
Bill Anderson is correct when he says it's offensive. The language being used by the US administration comes across as disrespectful and bullying.
It's clear we will have to make some concessions but this could have been handled much more diplomatically by the US side.
Once it's done I expect Trump will crow ad nauseum about the great deal he's done. Must dig out my earplugs again.
18
For a long time now, Trudeau has acted as if he wants Canada to be California North instead of a sovereign nation. From here it seems that he spends more time giving speeches to liberals in the US than taking care of his own shop. Is it any wonder that he comes across as so wishy washy weak?
3
@Oakwood
For a long time now, California North has wanted to be like Canada. But with America's militarism and its retrograde Republican Party, that's never going to happen, despite Trudeau's encouragement.
4
Yes, I know it’s not possible, or practical, but as a Canuck, I wish we could just walk away. I would love to sever all entanglements and ties to the US until a normal human being is back in charge.
37
Let’s review: When you treat everyone as an enemy, all you have is enemies. Being a bully doesn’t help anyone in the long run. Trade is not a zero-sum game. The United States has been a beacon for other nations to follow and invest in largely because we are perceived to be fair and willing to work cooperatively with others rather than abusively forcing our will on them. The United States has benefited greatly from almost a century of good relations and trade with our neighbors to the north and south.
Like any trade agreement as old as NAFTA, there are certainly aspects of the agreement that could be tweaked to reflect evolution in global trade. However, it is crucial to remember that Mexico and Canada are our friends, not our enemies, and that we must treat them as such. Yes, because of our economic size, the United States holds the upper hand in trade negotiations with Mexico and Canada. What seems to be forgotten by the Trump administration is that with great power comes great responsibility. Building unity rather than division, and being honest, respectful and fair to all parties to accrues to the benefit of all.
29
Negotiating with grifters. I'm hopeful we can concede on those tariffs on milk solids used to make cheese, protect the rest of our supply-management system on dairy (which small sized dairy farmers in the US admire) let the master grifter claim victory and move on.
14
I apologize for our childish grifter. In a few months he will be gone.
14
Trudeau,
Time to temper the truculent toddler’s temper tantrum tactics.
Terminate trade talks today!
14
@David While that might be a just thing to do it is short sighted. Trump will eventually go away (maybe in handcuffs) and the world can begin the process of getting back to some degree of normalcy.
13
@David
Yes - that might feel good - certainly the Trump administration is wholly offensive - but we cannot walk away - we must stay at the table and refuse to be bullied. For many reasons, WE cannot be the ones to pull the plug - that action would feed too many toxic forces interfering in the continent’s democracies and forces that disseminate false narratives.
4
Just heard a Canadian on NPR say that the USA and Mexico have been working on "the deal" for five weeks.
No detailed language yet released.
30 parts to "the deal" 10 of which have yet to be completed.
ALL THIS and Canada is expected to sign-on in four (4) days.
A great way to treat a neighbor and a firm friend.
"President chaos" and his crew of toady minions strikes yet again.
21
POTUS trade deal seems to be similar to the one that was in place but which he rescinded...taking credit for others work... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/two-cheers-for-trumps-trade-agre...
5
@RJB
The US may get its slightly modified NAFTA Trade Agreement but I suspect the resentment in Canada and Mexico will linger on for some time. What a great way to treat our neighbors.
15
@RJB Trump needs to remember who are the friends of the US the next time he decides to start a war and needs help (remember Afghanistan). The Canadian desire to rush to join in the battle might be somewhat reduced.
5
Trump's next book: The art of making enemies out of friends.
30
And of course, no doubt Canada was left out to begin with because Justin Trudeau criticized Trump. And to those crowing about Trump's big "win" with Mexico, nothing's been signed yet - and given Trump's track record and penchant for pulling the rug out from under others' feet, there's a good chance it won't be. Don't you just love government by 5-year-old bully tactics? Are we tired of all the "winning" yet?
22
Agree.
After the big publicity about the summit with North Korea, the talks that followed have produced nothing substantive, only confirming that North Korea has no intention to negotiate about nuclear weapons. Foreign policy by a reality TV show cast member can only produce photo ops and not real change.
6
So it is not negotiations but blackmail.
Fine, this will probably work for a short while.
For the time it takes for Canada to rearrange its production for other buyers in other places like China and the EU.
So the "victory" in renegotiating NAFTA may last a few months even a year but in the end it will have other consequences such as a Canada that will become less dependent on the US and more oriented towards other markets.
On the end Trump will have killed NAFTA, won a short "victory" and made Canada stronger and more independent from the US.
Which will lead to the next phase and that is that the US will have lost a supplier and a buyer as Canada will not need the US that much and will be able to negotiate better terms for doing business with the US in the long run.
It is a basic principle of Capitalism that any type of competition is good for the efficiency of the market and the production.
And Trump has just triggered this function by forcing Canada to look for markets elsewhere.
But then again, did we really expect anything else from Trump than a failure based on incompetence?
32
So some one needs to explain to me how NAFTA, a three party deal can be renegotiated with only two parties. Seems to me congress will have to approve this deal. I would also like to point out that Mexico is giving big consetions in wages and steel.This is before there new administration is in power. So if I where Canada I would delay this agreement knowing that congress needs to approve deal. Then I would negotiate what I wanted in said deal.
All Canada needs to do is wait the donald out. North Korea, remember them is all done being nice with trump. That deal is toast. China will just keep going tit for tat. Chinas Amazon has had a huge boost in last quarter, also banks in China just had a big boost. China has over a billion people they can survive buy just supplying there own countrymen. China has many provinces that need development, they can spend tons of money in country. China can start to sell there American bonds to pay for all that development.
We may seem to be winning know but like all bullies our day will come, unfortunately. There is a reason to play nice. You play nice so when you need help the people you played nice with will help willingly. A willing partner is best when the shooting starts.
14
There are details far beyond pickup trucks and supply chains in this awful deal Trumpov & Co have negotiated with Mexico in the closing days of the outgoing administration of Enrique Peña Nieto. The new Mexican President assumes office December 1.
The Open Media Foundation- a non-profit that works to maintain & encourage diversity of thought on the internet, has reported that within this deal are sections that impact digital democracy. In an email they sent yesterday:
-The deal would force a “notice and takedown” regime for the Internet, allowing corporations to force online content to be taken down over frivolous claims of copyright infringement.
-Art and music copyright is extended to a minimum of 75 years for works.
These are right out of the big media lobby bag of tricks and they sneak this stuff into these so-called "free trade" agreements, because they are not popular enough to stand up to public scrutiny. This kind of nonsense was seeded in the Trans-Pacific Partnership and was a prime reason it should not have been approved, as well.
When the full text is released there will be more of this kind of stuff included in the "free trade" agreement.
We need fair trade with Mexico & Canada, but we need a clean agreement that is not larded with these kinds of giveaways to lobbyists. They should also be done in public- with the full text available to all.
21
@David Gregory
Thank-you for bringing this to notice.
These same absurd copyright extensions had originally been in the TPP but were removed from the CPTPP after the US pulled out (https://www.csis.org/analysis/tpp-cptpp)
9
It's about time the US threw its weight around. Negotiations are not equal because countries are not equal. Canada is finding that out.
Russia, China and the United States make the rules all others are simply along for the ride.
@There
Canada's economy is larger than Russia's. Why should they make rules that Canada has to follow? Please explain... Thanks!
25
@There
I would also point out that the EU economy is larger than that of China and more than ten times larges than the economy of Russia.
17
@Susan WatsonThat's what I was gonna say!
I understand the impulse to rush to Washington and join the deal - Canada cannot afford to let its own workers and producers suffer. But I wonder in what way Canada will take its revenge. Trump's 'art of the deal' is really 'my way or the highway' (for everyone but Russia). I'm sure his supporters love it. Americans have been taught by their media to prize toughness, bluster and money over everything else.
17
That's true and we do love it. We won like we frequently do. Trump said he would reshape this in our favor and he did.
2
@There this sort of bad faith posturing in which “agreements” have been achieved thru strong arming friends and foes alike got the world into two world wars in the last century. The Kaiser thought a tough, aggressive stance on everything will win the day. History recorded him as a fool with one small hand. I wonder how your current Kaiser will fare. He’s on the same track.
3
@There You have no idea if that's the case yet as it is a preliminary deal. It hasn't been put into practice yet and I can assure you it will cause you and your family to spend more all along the supply chain. And that is a loss for all of America!
3
The article states without evidence that Canadians have rallied behind their leader in these trade negotiations. Not true. A great many Canadians think that Trudeau is a fool and not really in charge of the government of which he is putatively the leader.
5
@Lester B there are many Canadians who think that way but they are not great. Just feeding at Rebel Media’s and RT doesn’t make one great. On the contrary. I’m not defending Trudeau, some of his actions were particularly cringeworthy there’s no question. However that leaves the big block of swing voters, you know the few millions who handed the Liberals the decisive victory last time, almost no choice in the coming elections. The PC have turned toward a hard nationalist populist right, the Liberals proved themselves fiscally irresponsible (particularly in Ontario) and the NDP are flirting with communism. That’s what Canadians are facing in next year’s federal elections. Great choice indeed.
2
Polling shows that 75% of Canadians support Trudeau in trade nonsense stirred by our imbecile Trump.
4
@Lester B Trudeau is crushing middle class, while allowing big corporations (i.e. Kinder Morgan pipeline).
I think that this NAFTA business with trump is a bad deal but expect Trump
to try to come for your ( and our) water at some point. The Great Lakes compact is all that stands between Trumpkin and a massive fortune in fresh water. People will pay lots for it as the impending ecological catastrophe that is climate change fully arrives. Even if by some miracle, trump hasn’t thought of it yet, Putin and lots of other multi national Oligarchs have.
15
Has anyone actually looked at U.S.-Canada trade data? In 2017 total two-way trade equaled $581 billion, with a positive balance for Canada of $17 billion, or less than 3% of all good shipped. In contrast, the U.S. budget deficit in 2017 was $666 billion, with a forecast for 2018 that indicates a total national debt reaching $21.48 trillion arising from years of accumulative budget deficits. Trump is a shrewd politician who deploys the art of financial misdirection to focus attention on trivial pursuit while our national infrastructure rots and debt mounts at unsustainable levels due to his reckless fiscal policies.
19
@Stu Sutin
I totally agree with your main point but would quibble a bit with the specific numbers; According to the US Government's own site:
"U.S. goods and services trade with Canada totaled an estimated $673.1 billion in 2017. Exports were $340.7 billion; imports were $332.3 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $8.4 billion in 2017."
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada
Again- am agreeing with your main point that this is a relatively trivial (and fluctuating) number
2
The Canadians can’t get to Washington fast enough stumbling all over themselves to get to the negotiating table. The same pull-out-the-rug negotiating tactics worked with North Korea and then with the EU when it protested it had to stay with the Iran deal and then its companies all pulled out of their deals.
Nothing ever seemed to get done before Trump came along and dumped diplomatic convention on its rear. How could he be so gauche at the G-7 meeting and then with NATO? Look how unhappy all the EEU leaders looked when they stood for their picture. Why, Trudeau’s eyebrows were practically falling down onto his nose, and the esteemed alliance of the great democratic countries of the world in place since WW II was just being trampled by this hopeless barbarian. It was so embarrassing to so much of the in-the-know NYT readership who just oozed worldly sophistication. Now no one is happy. Trump had to go and win again. America is winning again. Workers are winning again! Oh, mercy me! Impeachment is now all we have left!
3
@Ed
No one is winning, it is all smoke and mirrors from trump. Canada is in a tight spot, look for other buyers, like China. They got in this mess thinking they had two partners who were ethical and could be trusted. Trump is not either and does not really know how cooperation and supply chains work for the good of all. He does NOT understand business. He only understands revenge and personal vindictive behavior.
Republicans MUST LOSE BIG in November in order to take the Self perceived POWER he is taken. He is destroying every thing good about America and replace it with a revengeful, mafia like culture.
It is time for all good people to step up and fight this battle before it is too late. Let people like John McCAIN be our guide, even when he was dying he stood up for America .
32
You won’t notice Schumer rooting for Canada on this one. Canadian tariffs of up to 270% on imported dairy products killed the dairy industry in upstate New York forcing many farms to close with some farmers even committing suicide because of it.
The independent deal with Mexico benefits both Mexico and the USA. According to a NYT article dated 8/27/2018:
“Under the changes agreed to by Mexico and the United States, car companies would be required to manufacture at least 75 percent of an automobile’s value in North America under the new rules, up from 62.5 percent, to qualify for Nafta’s zero tariffs. They will also be required to use more local steel, aluminum and auto parts, and have 40 to 45 percent of the car made by workers earning at least $16 an hour, a boon to both the United States and Canada and a win for labor unions, which have been among Nafta’s biggest critics.”
What don’t you like about this? Now Canada will soon be getting on board, too. Or do you prefer the lopsided imbalance of trade that was just the accepted norm before and that was just killing American workers? Why do you think they voted for Trump? To keep the status quo?
1
@Ed
Your dairy industry is heavily subsidized. Yet your products are to be traded freely??? How on earth is that fair?
Second, a majority of Canadians do not want your hormone laden milk PERIOD. The weak labelling conventions that NAFTA imposes means consumers would have a very hard time choosing not to buy American milk once it enters our market so for our health, we don’t want this inferior product.
Third, we are a small market. Think about that and then reconsider your claim that our refusal to drink your inhumanely produced milk has put New York farmers out of business.
4
Trump is ruining our relationships with ALL of our allies...
he is the antithesis of what all of our Presidents have been
He is devoid of honor....and destroying our reputation .
I hope he will be impeached by the incoming Congress.
24
One by one the countries of the world are succumbing to bullies, and we are one of the biggest bullies. We had a pretty good run with all of our flaws, but unless the Democrats can take back at least the house, the America that we knew for a while will be pretty much gone. Enough people voted for dictatorship in this country to make it happen.
24
This brings to mind Trump’s great but non-existent denuclearization deal with N Korea.
34
The art of negotiating is to know what the other side is offering. It is smart for Canada to come to the table. After that, nobody knows.
4
@Trento Cloz, In 1812, Canada was a British Colony and was invaded by the US. The war ended with the treaty of Ghent.
The British were at war with France, the US attempted to stay neutral but the British Navy would stop and board US merchant vessels, seize cargo and impress US merchant seamen to fill their ranks. These acts in part led to the war of 1812. Canada as a British colony, was pulled into the conflict. Yes, Washington was burned by the British but in the end, the US still remained an independent nation.
Let's not forget what defines Canada. "On July 1, 1867, with passage of the British North America Act, the Dominion of Canada was officially established as a self-governing entity within the British Empire."
So much for history. On a lighter note, Canadian Bacon is one of my favorite John Candy movies. Give it a watch!
3
On the Canadian side of the Saint Lawrence River in Ontario( where so many Loyalists fled during and after the revolution) it is still common for very anglo appearing Canadians to brag to
Americans that “we burnt down your White House.” I’m speaking from personal experience. It’s been well over 200 years but these are people who’s ancestors were tarred and feathered or rode off their land on rails so you sort of understand the animosity. As a purely subjective opinion, Canadians from that area of Irish decent seem somewhere in their collective consciousness to remember how the Loyalist Canadians worked scores of Irishmen to death building the Rideau Canal (as the Brits planned the evacuation of their government from Kingston to Ottawa in order to protect themselves from the Americans). Later after the war of 1812, a bunch of buffoonish Americans invaded Canada as a private venture, assuming all of Canada would take up their cause (shades of Halliburton’s invasion of Iraq?). Lacking the entire US military apparatus behind them (or any part of it) and also lacking support from the Canadians before them...it didn’t go very well-although not as poorly as Halliburton’s invasion. Somewhere near Cornwall there is a mill in which the surviving invaders of the so called Patriot’s War took refuge. It still stands as a testimonial to American hubris.
10
@Wisconsonian
With roots that go back to the 1600s here, I have yet to meet someone who talks about burning the White House - there were a few political pundits who made a joke about it on the news a year or so ago after Trump made one of his egregious insults but that is the only time I have heard anyone mention it.
1
One has to appreciate a country that has a strategic maple syrup supply! If ever attacked, their pancakes are safe! (Yes, I do know it's done for economic reasons but it's still to good of a line no to use.) Vive le Quebec libre!
2
Well, it seems that US is (finally) learning from China:
"China is a big country and other countries are small countries, and that's just a fact," ... as accurately noted by Yang Jiechi, the Foreign Minister as he threatened Singapore.
It is evident that Trump is not a trained Economist or trained in anything. While the US public is not informed about the details of the Mexico pact, it is clear Trump is flailing , bluffing, and cajoling and coercing Mexico. Trump knows how to acquire debts not how to gain advantage through fair trade. Trump manifests paucity, if not total nescience of economic knowledge.
12
Reading the comments, it's clear many readers still don't understand Trump's negotiating style. Of course he wants Canada in the new deal. Don't you remember how he ensured the Kim summit by abruptly declaring it dead? Stopping the secretary of state from going to N. Korea last week is another negotiating move.
He pulled out of the Iran deal and all EU countries insisted their laws would prevent their companies from halting their trade deals, but they all cut ties with Iram.
Putting tariffs on EU goods brought the EU president rushing to D.C. last month, where he met with and praised Trump and said EU has already agreed on deal outline tyo cut tariffs to zero.
Trump fulminated against Mexico for two years, yet concluded the first major trade treaty of his presidency with Mexico, with both current and incoming presidents praising Trump.
As story says, Canada faces economic disaster if country doesn't reach agreement. Trump doesn't humiliate in negotiations. To anyone who knows the political differences between Mexico's prez and its prez-elect, to have both on board means Mexico likes the agreement and see it as fair.
Trump will seek a fair deal, not one that cripples Canada.
Then, after all this, Trump said he will turn next to China's unfair advantages. All Americans should be cheering him on to end China's theft of our tech and military secrets, and truly open their markets to U.S. products. No matter what you think of him, you have to hope his brash methods work.
12
Amazing Mexico wants to make a deal after the way trump talks about their country and people
8
Stay strong Canada. Don't give in to blackmail. Help will be forthcoming in November.
34
@sunrise - from this article: "However, given that Canada is just one-tenth the size of its superpower neighbor, and that it sends about three-quarters of its exports to America, the prime minister’s bargaining hand is limited."
No help will be coming from anywhere, sunrise.
4
Given that global warming will make Canada a very desirable piece of property, the Canadians have much to fear from the Trump/Russia Axis and they better hope they get some help from those of us in the US who don’t support geopolitical predators.
14
@Wisconsonian
There is no win for Canada in global warming.
Global warming may benefit Canada a teensy bit for a decade or two, but even by mid-century it is a net cost to Canada. We have the longest coastline in the world, so sea level rise will be massively expensive; our most fertile agricultural areas are in the south, and will be impacted by heat and soil erosion just as much as Iowa or Wisconsin; Canada's boreal forest (the second largest expanse of forest in the world) will burn in forest fires, as we have seen in BC/Alberta in recent years. That's not to mention the loss of habitat, storms and increasing pace of change that everybody in the world will have to deal with.
1
Trump is greatly weakened politically and in no position to push Canada around. If he loses Congress, the Democrats will call for proper investigations into his Russian collusion, financial corruption and other possibly criminal events. He is already likely going to lose Congress and he can't afford to anger any more voters by causing American auto workers to lose their jobs as a result of Trump actions.
What Canada (my government) should do is call his bluff. When Trump puts tariffs on so-called Canadian "cars" (made by Canadians working for American companies from American parts made by other American and Canadian companies), Canada should immediately turn around and put tariffs directly on those American parts. This will cause immediate layoffs in US companies in many Congressional districts and greatly affect the US election. Trump and the GOP are too weak to take a chance on being blamed for these job losses He's bluffing.
The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up and hit him in the nose. If Trump wants to get in the boxing ring with Trudeau, he can ask for that. But the last blowhard conservative (in Canada) who did that, got his nose handed to him by the hard-boxing Trudeau.
The next Canadian election is 2019 and if Trudeau allows himself to get pushed around by Trump, he will lose that election. If he stands up to the bully, he will win. Easy as that. Let's see what Trudeau does. Stand your ground!
48
@SMC
It is precisely because he is weak that he bullies—he’s like all other bullies, in essence, a pathetic loser. We all know how he manages his inherited wealth - it’s public knowledge that he does not adhere to contracts and uses his relative power to prevent the injured parties from seeing justice. He hates Trudeau because by any standard ( whatever your political leanings) Trudeau is a more sexually appealing male and aging, flabby and completely lacking in charm, Trump can’t stand this — Trump wants to appear strong but he viscerally hates Trudeau. Canada is just collateral damage in Trump’s display of his feathers.
3
Is Ms. Freeland going to give in and sign into Trump NAFTA that is called something else? I hope she isn’t being bullied into it. Not after all the name calling and disrespect towards their president.
7
USA is making a fast agreement with representatives of a corrupt Mexican government that was voted out recently. Trump wants to make a fast deal with those corrupt politicians because when the new Mexican president elect assumes power he will demand not only fair trade, but even apologies for the insults of Trump against Mexicans that, by the way, the Canadian government did not condemned.
8
"...given that Canada is just one-tenth the size of its superpower neighbor..." [op cit]
--
Whenever and wherever Donald Trump suspects ”weakness,” he attacks. And we all know that's not a virtue; that is, unless you are, "[a] thief [that] cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy..."
--
What this means, is that we now have a President who is ”hell bent,” on ruining America’s reputation, by destroying any faith our friends and even our enemies have, in what we stand for as a people.
Unless we can put a stop to this, not even our most loyal advocates will ever trust us again!
--
Our only hope is to make an example of Donald Trump, as well as his henchmen in Congress and in the Administration, by punishing them using the most severe measures, according to law and the Constitution.
We must also convince his followers, that by supporting his ilk, and by swallowing his filthy rhetoric, they are succumbing to one of the biggest lies ever fed to the American public!
26
I think some are wrong to see panic in Chrystia Freeland's urgency in her trip to the negotiating table. She recognizes that Canada now has the upper hand and it is Trump that is panicking to get NAFTA deal done before the new anti-Trump Mexican President takes power. She also sees that Trump agreed to many of Mexico's demands, and dropped many of the U.S.'s. She is merely urgently circling in for the win.
39
@Gobsmacked in Calgary
Absolutely! Mr. Trump needs agreement by Friday, not Canada. Ms. Freeland is deeply familiar with the terms already and a nimble negotiator.
7
I sympathize with posters insisting Canada not acquiesce to Trump's heavy handed demand that it sign on - or else. Nonetheless there may be a legitimate opportunity here to get a deal that is fair for all three nations.
Nieto wants a deal he can get ratify before a new leftist government takes over in January. And while Mexico has made significant concessions to get a deal Trump can tout as good for America, many of those concessions will also be welcomed in Canada - especially those that level the playing field on labour costs in the auto sector.
Trump is even more desperate for a deal going into the mid-terms. No matter how good or bad, he will insist it is the greatest trade deal in history. Canada will be happy to let him bask in the glory.
Trudeau has room to manoeuvre but there are three things he must deliver if he is to sell this as a win to Canadians. He must ignore Trump's insistence on a 5 year limit. Industry can't commit billions without reasonable assurance the ground won't shift under them in 5 years.
Trudeau also needs a dispute resolution mechanism with teeth - something lacking in the existing NAFTA. And while Canada might well soften its position somewhat on dairy imports, Trudeau would be committing political suicide if he agreed to open the doors completely to U.S. milk products that are heavily subsidized, vastly over produced and - in some cases - of inferior quality to those produced in Canada.
34
@Maggy Carter
Why would anyone sign an agreement with the USA, it is as worthless as the word of the man in the Oval Office?
With regards to dairy products Quebec has a dairy agreement with Vermont. The fact that Trump takes issue with our supply management system that has saved our family farms tells something of who Trump serves and the intelligence of Wisconsin's dairy farmers.
Chrystia Freeland from Peace River Alberta gives us the upper hand regardless of circumstance as it is impossible to imagine anyone as competent, and informed as Minister Freeland anywhere within a hundred meters of Trump.
24
Most posts lambaste Trump and many call for Canadian autarky vis-à-vis the U.S., some figuring it can be made up by trade with the Commonwealth and Europe
I agree that the Trump administration’s behavior toward Canada is deplorable. I wonder if they know how many Canadian military personnel died in Afghanistan in answer to 9/11. There’s nothing new about this. The Bush II administration bullied Canadian P.M. Jean Chrétien when he declined to participate in our Iraq misadventure.
But Canada, please don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. As Rahm Emanuel said, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” This is your chance to end protectionism that hurts ordinary Canadians.
I was reminded of the import barrier on dairy euphemistically called “supply management” recently, when, visiting B.C., I bought 100g rounds of Quebec Oka and Saint-Paulin cheese for $10 each. We get better cheeses from Europe for 1/3 as much.
I remember having to pay some $25 in duty when, living in Montreal, I returned from the U.S. with $100 in books. Your online duty-free allowance is C$ 20. In the U.S., it’s US$ 800.
Please drop the canards about the superior quality of Canadian dairy. That is fake news. The U.S. abounds in superb cheese and butter makers, sans hormones.
Finally, please note that it’s possible for (1) trade to be roughly balanced and yet the terms of trade to be unbalanced and (2) Freeland to be nicer and smarter than the Trump team but still lose out in this dispute.
13
@Cyclist I've had your American filtered milk. It's ghastly. And, you do not understand the importance of supply management in dairy to Quebec. Lose Quebec, lose government, and perhaps give the Separatists (whom one of the federal parties is courting) a cause celebre.
14
@Cyclist
Firstly, it is impossible for a satellite economy to have a trade war with the economy you are orbiting.
Secondly, Canada France and the USA produce some superlative cheeses and I have not known any great cheese to be inexpensive. I am in the heart of cheese country and the artisanal cheeses from here in the Eastern Townships and across the border in Vermont are as good as any on Earth but they are all expensive. Oka and Saint Paulin are mass production cheeses that are always overpriced and have been since Kraft bought the rights to Oka when I was so much younger. Oka is a fine every day cheese but forty five dollars a pound for Oka is criminal unless there is BC bud hiding under the rind.
Thirdly Freeland is not just smart but brilliant and was nice enough to be one of fourteen Canadians banned by Putin from travelling in Russia and in standing up for her fellow journalists being tortured and threatened with death by the barbarians ruling Saudi Arabia has seen Canada in a diplomatic row and trade stoppage with Saudi Arabia's brutal regime.
Chrystia Freeland is a person of tremendous faith, great courage and unimpeachable integrity. She has confronted some of the world's most brutal and dangerous tyrants, I have no fear of her confronting your schoolyard bullies.
29
You’re trying to correct people who
Know nothing about Canada...but will tell you how things “ really are” anyway. I was always surprised as a kid to hang out in Canada and find out the Canadian Kids knew waaay more about the USA and it’s history than I did and I already knew a lot about my country back then....Canada? Not so much.
11
Why are we picking fights with Canada? CANADA!!! I suppose we'll be building a wall there too.
23
@Annie
War of 1812? How short some memories are.
7
You’ve been listening to Captain Bone Spurs too much. Canada didn’t exist until 1867. The British burned down your White House during the war of 1812.
14
That was the British,not the Canadians. READ your history from actual BOOKs
13
It is difficult for those of us who cannot muster the same animus toward Trump as the Times not to gloat just a bit as, once again, the President's rash, ill-considered, untutored, abusive, amateurish, childlike, corrupt, tantrum-like actions yield high quality results. Even more amazing is that these happen even as Trump is contending with the endless, omnidirectional psychological warfare being waged against him by the mainstream media. There is really no precedent for this. Volumes will yet be written. And Kissinger could well be correct in having said Donald Trump may turn out to be one of the remarkable presidents.
7
@JJ Gross The high quality result you allude to is higher prices for American cars in the US. Might as well buy a more expensive BMW made in the US by workers already making high wages. By the way, our net (goods and services) trade deficit with Canada is a wash. Most of us realize that Trump is all about much ado about nothing.
21
Trump’s greatest success in trade policy so far is to get Harley-Davidson to move part of its operations to Europe.
If Trump kills NAFTA, either US companies will re-open branch plants in Canada or import products from other countries.
Big win for American workers.
21
On the bright side, the European exposer may help
Harley Davidson make better motorcycles...even if they were unable to capitalize on their previous exposer to Eric Buell (which was an amazing corporate horror story all it’s own). HD already owns MV Augusta, so they were already in Europe in a manner of speaking...and in India for a while as well, but they like to keep that on the down low.
3
What rushing? To a meeting already on the sked? Sheesh.
5
The 50% of Americans who detest Trump and the corrupt republicans can’t believe what is happening to our country. It’s like a nightmare we can’t wake up from.
24
@Ava - Yeah, highest stock market in history, lowest black unemployment in history, lowest Hispanic unemployment in history, lowest female and youth unemployment in 40 years, strongest economy in 40 years, first time in my lifetime we have more jobs than people to fill them, PLUS he has kept us at peace despite Dem predictions when he won.
Face the results, not the carping of the anti-Trump pundits.
4
@Frederick Kiel
there was zero unemployment in the UDSSR.
Does that make it a good model?
As a politician it is very short sighted to take credit for the stock market, because it will go down again as well.
Oh, i forgot, if you are as shameless as Trump you can, because nothing is ever your fault and everything is always your victory!
Mexico and now Canada fall in line. This’ is obviously Putin’s doing. Trump is just a pawn of Putin and Putin is making the trade agreements for the US better. Why is Putin doing this? That doesn’t matter. What matters is that it is happening and we just freak out about it.
6
@Jim
I doubt there are many people who know Putin as well as Chrystia Freeland. I might suggest that if Putin is involved he might tell Trump to not get on the bad side of Chrystia Freeland.
11
Its called divide and conquer. And apparently, it works.
5
@RM - It's Diplomacy 101, RM, and has worked for the past 6,000 years of recorded history.
2
I’m still astonished that a guy who couldn’t get respect amongst the real estate crowd in NYC could get the top job in the world.
Anyways - we’ll just fine up here with or without a USA trade agreement...we’ll just adapt and trade more with Asia and Europe - they seem to be open for business
33
What's the betting this will end up in court - in keeping with all that he touches.
12
Not only should Canada not bow to Trump's autocratic bullying, they should adjust Canadian immigration requirements. To Americans who are self-sufficient and longing to be free of the Trump Nation, say, "Come on in. We welcome you, ethical, caring individuals and families." Oh yes, please include retirees with savings of over US$500,000. My bags are packed.
15
@ Martin. You’re from NY so you’re okay with winter. (And everyone understands, sadly...) Here, and bonne chance: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/appli...
2
@Martin Woolf Just wait until you get there. Canada taxes everything with it's 13% HST. Even postage stamps. That's after they wack your income with taxes that make the USA look like a tax haven. And when you're sick, you end up with mediocre medical care, waiting weeks for an operation. One would think a country with an abundance of water and hydroelectric supply would have cheap water and electric. No, it doesn't. Small companies, threatened by increasing costs, are screaming the blues. Good luck!
1
Whatever results from Trump's bullying tactics there has been enormous damage to the trading relationship between Canada and the US. Canada played by the rules and both countries profited from the trading relationship. Far from being the worst trade deal ever - NAFTA has provided enormous benefit to all three participants. A rising tide raises all boats.
I don't know how long my resolve will last, but this consumer has made a fundamental change in buying habits. I used to believe in "free trade" and when I saw "proudly made in USA" stickers or labels on items I was buying it was almost as good as Made in Canada. Now, I will no longer spend money on Made in USA if I can avoid it. It won't matter if Tump the bully successfully twists Canada's arm to increase de minimise limits. I won't be shopping across the border -at least not from USA.
I won't "cut off my nose to spite my face" - I still want my blueberries. I do know, however, that my upcoming recliner purchase will no longer be a La Z(ed) Boy. I am not the only one.
20
@ Michael Wherever you get your blueberries, shop around, insist they are bought either natinslly or through European trade. It’s a little time consuming but hey, better together? I only purchase gas from Petro Can btw, for obvious reasons. It isnt that challenging to keep the majority of our dollars above the 49th.
11
@Michael Greason I do know how to spell de minimis. My spell checker apparently does not.
@Michael Greason No need to buy American blueberries. Nova Scotia's blueberries are among the best anywhere. I live 2 km from a berry farm, in fact. The world's largest supplier of frozen wild blueberries (the best kind!) would be Oxford Frozen Foods right here in NS and there are numerous other farms as well. Last year, NS blueberry farmers faced an oversupply, even with their exports to Europe, Asia and the USA. These berries are harvested in NB as well. They're excellent.
Buy Canadian blueberries. Americans do.
6
Don't worry Canada. Any agreements reached by Trump & Co. will become central issues in the next presidential election. We can anticipate the Democratic candidates proclaiming they will re-negotiate the treaties and undo the mean nasty things that Trump has done to NAFTA.
You betcha.
9
What would happen if we would withdraw from NORAD? Might the Americans then take notice about the results of their posture?
16
The US and Mexico reached agreement? Canada is rushing in to be part of it.
Maybe if we had built that wall all of this would have been avoided.
I both was raised in the Trump's neighborhood in Queens, encountering the young Donald in the early 1960's, and resided in Canada for two years in the 70's. My advice to the Canadians is to "chill." Don't seem to rush into negotiations in a panic -- Queens rules! Keep your powder dry -- Canada has more power than may be apparent.
28
This is actually disastrous advice for Canada. Canada will be worse off being left out of a trade agreement and Trump is more than willing to make that happen if Canada won't renegotiate towards US favor.
6
@Don Q
Trump does not have the power to make that happen. He is not the autocrat he thinks he is.
2
@Don Q Congress, which must approve any trade pact, have expressed reservations about leaving Canada out. And if Mr. Trump intends to partner only with Mexico, he will also need congressional approval to bring Nafta to a close. I say we call Trump’s bluff.
2
Don't give an inch to the Americans on this; they will break any deal at their convenience, as the world well knows. Better to eat grass than endure this shabby treatment and brinksmanship. The number one goal is to maintain Canadian sovereignty; we are not vassals to a foreign master. If the Yanks want to pay more for their F-150s, fine, let them.
28
@Mike B.
It would be really great to bring those jobs back to detroit
1
The free world should get together and impose sanctions on the US. I am appalled that T and his allies in Congress can get away with insulting all our allies while calling Putin, the Saudi princes, even little dictators like Duterte, and Kim Jong Un.
He makes a "deal" with Mexico, just tweaking NAFTA very llittle, so that he can now call it the Trump Deal and he can't even uphold it for 24 hours before he goes on to say "Mexico will pay for the wall".
Sad part is he gets away with all and his supporters cheer him on as if in a bull fighting ring.
23
Freeland should tell her US counterparts to take a hike then sit back and watch the economies in the northern US states collapse. Trump wouldn't know the realities of US-Canada trade if it hit him in the face (...as most Canadians would like to do, btw).
25
Canada has been by far the largest and most balanced ( i.e. NO deficits !) trade partner with the U.S since the 1950s – with or without NAFTA !!
32 states out of 50 declare Canada as their largest export market.
The idea that Canada would suffer more if they did not succumb to the bullying tactics of our negotiators is misguided. If Canada reciprocates with their own tariffs -- which they most certainly will -- it would also hurt not only GM and Ford for cars manufactured in the US, but those 32 states which trade with Canada in a mutually beneficial way over decades.
Finally, because GM and Ford are US-owned, penalizing them with outbound tariffs from Canada would directly hurt its American shareholders. Is anyone at the WH thinking or what ???
We should think twice ( perhaps 3 times!) before scrapping a deal with the longest a most loyal partner over an insignificant detail concerning Canadian milk.
31
@time2think Reciprocal tariffs were placed one month after Trump’s tariffs were placed.
4
Ms. Freeland, if you are reading this…
We Canadians are more than our number would indicate. We have been few in making this country, and in fighting for others in the wars. Although we, with few exceptions, have all come from elsewhere, we have embraced this varied history and now again is the time to stand firm. You are not only negotiating for car parts, and softwood lumber, and dairy products we do not want, you are negotiating for your people and our way of life. I urge you to take care – money is not life, and your political career should be your least concern.
27
It really doesn't help when no one stands up to Donald Trump.
16
Ms. Freeland - take your time. A bully backs off when you don't cave in. Call Trump's bluff. A reminder - he declared bankruptcy a mere six times. He is all bluster and little substance.
34
Oh Canada, I’m so SORRY Putin is trying to unravel our union. We are Children of a Common Mother, and seeing his participation in Brexit, I’d say he’s attacked our mother as well.
We must stick together.
18
Somehow Trump will spin this into bad news, fake news, then make it great news because he, Trump, did all by himself. And his ego will be fed for another couple of minutes.
Seriously, if a new trade deal works and all sides benefit without hurting anyone, then good.
4
This will be the most pivotal week in the history of Canada since confederation.
No matter how it all works out, Canadians in general will see for the first time in a long time, what the elite of Canadian society believe and think.
As for me, I have never been one who believes in trying to predict the future.
But, just as a side note. Most, but not all, in Trudeau's cabinet have attended the best schools in the world - that money could buy.
And most of those schools can be found in the United States of America.
Perhaps this is a bad omen.
Only time will tell I guess.
4
@The Peasant Philosopher
I checked where Trudeau's cabinet members were educated. Here's the ones educated abroad:
Freeland: Italy and Oxford
Francois-Philippe Champagne, Montreal, Case Western Reserve, Cleveland (law)
John McCallum: Cambridge, UoParis, McGill
Catherine McKenna - McGill, UoT, London School of Economics
Bill Morneau: Western, London School of Economics
Jim Carr: Cambridge
Jean-Yves Duclos: London School of Economics
Marc Garneau: Imperial College, London, RMC, Canadian Forces College
Melanie Joly: oxford, UoMontreal for law
Romeo Leblanc: UoT, Harvard, UoNB
I think that's the list. The rest were educated at home, in Canadian Universities. You'll only find one American university on the list. It's not just money that you need for any of these universities, home grown or abroad as money won't buy you marks in a top flight university.
I'm delighted to have so many well qualified people.
And that also goes for the Minister of Agriculture who was a farmer before entering politics and still lives in farm country - and the former bus driver (as the opposition taunts him) who was a political activist arrested and then rescued by Amnesty International and Canada. I am glad to see this mix of people all work for Canada.
23
I manage an import company, and we do customs brokerage, and freight forwarding, I have been doing this for 20 years.
I see this and say congratulations Mr President.
NAFTA has been terrible for the USA , we have been clamoring for a change for decades. Very glad it has finally happened.
6
@shark
I am sure all three countries agreed that NAFTA needed to be revisited and updated. btw: NAFTA has not been good for many ordinary Mexicans or Canadians either.
But did it have to be a drama, a circus, complete with sideshows, bullying, berating, threats and insults? That was/is so unnecessary, petty, personal and unprofessional, and has nothing to do with trade it's pure spectacle.
Anyway, it hasn't happened yet, the negotiations aren't even finished and only Congress has the power to sign off on it, if it's legal.
17
@shark
Congats for what? What is it you think he's done? Details please.
11
I'm absolutely against signing trade deals under pressure and have no problem voting Trudeau's government out if he succumbs to Trump's bullying. As a voter, I will not forget and will not forgive if he signs this NAFTA deal. This is a great opportunity for Canada to branch out and seek other partners. It may be hard in the beginning but it'll be better for Canada in the long run.
25
@FM
So you would vote for Scheer. Come on!
5
@FM No one says the agreement has to be signed exactl as it's presented. Keep your shirt on. We're a long way from the finish line.
1
The idea of having a sunset clause in a free trade agreement is bizarre, to say the least. Corporations need long-term stability and predictability in order to plan ahead. Both the National Association of Manufacturers and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce must be using all of their considerable influence with members of Congress to get a trilateral agreement. PM Trudeau should wait and let the adults in Washington teach Little Donny what big business needs and will get, regardless of Donny's tiresome tweets.
24
@John Cameron Keep in mind dt is the bankrupt king.
6
@John Cameron
An even larger problem with the sunset clause is the idea of set-in-stone terms with a "take-or-leave-it" vote once every five years.
It makes a lot more sense to have a good amendment mechanism to respond flexible to changing circumstances.
1
Consider the 'lessons' all other countries are taking from DT's government negotiating process. Every treaty before he arrived is the "worst ever' and undone. After 200+ years of peaceful and profitable interactions if Canada can be treated in this fashion no one else will trust the Americans and their chosen government to be fair dealers/negotiating partners.
And some facts: booming (+4%) GDP growth, 3.9% unemployment- lowest in decades, great stock markets and corporate profits. So why the strong arm tactics? Is there no consideration of 'blowback'? Actions have consequences.
36
Minister Freeland: please do your country and my country a big favor and don’t traffic with the current Occupier. No good will come of it. I know I have no right to ask you to possibly suffer some short term economic woes, but in the end you’ll be much better off for it. Thanks.
32
@LnM
As a Canadian - I agree with you as do the majority of Canadians. This dispute goes beyond trade or tariffs, it speaks to the soul of our country and yours. We also know this stretches beyond our borders. Canada has temporarily taken on that beacon of democracy role that Trump and co. were so eager to divorce the U.S. from. You can have it back.
As a nation we understand that we'll have to take it on the chin and that our economy will suffer - undeniably. But we also understand that it's a necessity for our nation, yours, and the world.
Trudeau as he can be cringe-worthy, seems more like a figure-head than leader,, but he's surrounded himself with amazing talent and is recreating Canada's politics to be much more inclusive and diversified as the days of 'old white men' (I'm one of them) is waning. Meanwhile Freeland is one of the most universally respected politicians our country has had in recent memory.
Canada's in a unique position as despite our relative size, we are one of few countries in the world that could seriously effect your economy as everything from cheap oil to cheap hydro to soft-wood lumber to diamonds (for drilling) to copper to aluminum, etc. could feel the effects.
Most of us have friends, family or business in the U.S. and don't blame you for the mess. We all have people we care about in the U.S.
A trade war will have consequences, Canada's economy will shift, both abroad and production wise internally as it'll diversify.
Take care.
Rushing to DC to kiss Trump’s brass ring just makes Canada look feeble. Countries need to learn to stand up to the bully and stop backing down. How long until they learn better?
20
@W Smith I have not seen it described this way in any other news outlet except here in the NY Times. Maybe worth taking a broader sample and making use of some critical thought processes.
7
It is strange that Mexico says that they won't do a deal without Canada, and Canada says that they won't do a deal without Mexico, but the Trump administration says that they've got a bilateral deal ready to go.
I wonder who we should believe?
27
More a question of who
You can’t believe. Hard to
Forget the one player who has told over 4000 documented lies in a year and a half...
5
Canada deserves a better neighbour. Trump is treating them like dirt, and there will be a price to be paid. Don't underestimate the Canucks.
34
@A Reader And who would that neighbor be? Russia, with its eyes on the Canadian Arctic? France trying to recreate French North America with Quebec? Mexico, looking to export cheap labor? The fact is, Canada has the best neighbor any country could hope for.
8
Actually, Russia looks good. I'm sure that will make everyone happy.
1
This is not how a good neighbour behaves. We don't need this.
21
Baloney. Trump has not pulled the trigger on NAFTA, which would initiate the 6 month clock. Do your job Chrystia and sweat them down - we're behind you.
45
Mexican Ambassador to Canada Dionisio Perez Jacome threatened today that Mexico will go it alone on a US-Mexico deal without Canada if Canada doesn't fall into line. Thanks, partner; Canada stuck by you when Trump was trying to split us up earlier.
Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland later framed the situation as now positive for a deal because Mexico caved in on two of its big auto sector sticking points: "What has really paved the way for what Canada believes will be a good week is the fact that Mexico has made some significant concessions, particularly in the area of labour and of rules of origin on cars"; she said it must have been "difficult".
It's a subtle but effective slap back at the Mexican ambassador. Now the Mexican government will be looking over its shoulder at its own voters, to whom Freeland is suggesting their government gave away the farm to get a deal. Right back at ya'.
28
This is such a petty, small-minded drama—just another day in Trumpworld. The US is being reduced to the corrupt “business” model Trump has followed—inherited—in he backwater of New York, bankruptcy and bribes.
20
Canada initially thought they could team up with Mexico against the US in trade. Mexico strategically took the opportunity to negotiate with the US bilaterally when Trudeau backed away from talks. Now Canada is in a worse position. Trump is doing a good job for the USA here.
7
For all of our sakes let's hope Canada does not cave in. I hope we lose on this one. We deserve it for bullying our most faithful neighbor. All for made up issues.
15
@Don Q when did Trudeau "backed away from talks"?
15
Donald J. Trump, the enemy of the American people.
37
Canada: Trudeau said you wouldn't sign anything with a sunset clause, period. He was right. Please stick to that, for your sake and ours.
28
Well Canada and Mexico could compare notes on the agreements allegedly made with US, and then go ahead and negotiate an even better one between themselves, leaving the US out.
It could happen, if tit for tat goes global
9
Do you realize what happened here? It will either be a bilateral agreement between the US and Mexico, or a trilateral agreement (it will be trilateral, since Canada now has it's tail between its legs and doesn't want to be exclused). I know you were hoping for the USA to lose here just because Trump is president, but that's just not reality. I'm sorry that he reworked trade agreements in our favor.
4
@Don Q
You couldn't be more wrong. Trump has zero legal authority to cancel NAFTA and do a bilateral with Mexico. Canada and Mexico have been speaking daily and tag teaming Trump during these weeks the US and Mexico have been talking. Trump is blowing more photo-op smoke.
Canada on notice. Renegotiate or Trump will leave you on the ash heap of history. Free and fair trade was on the ballot. America has spoken. Canada must fall in line or be punished.
5
@Steve
The world is not America.
Nations might be fed up with The Liar’s bullying and ignorance!
17
Yes, let's punish our closest ally for some made up issue. Great strategic move.
16
Unacceptable. We will not be bullied by the US.
13
> Canada may have little choice but to sign onto the pact.
> In the nearly quarter century since Nafta went into effect, various industries like automakers and food suppliers have built coordinated supply chains across the continent. If those links are splintered by new trade agreements, “we’re clearly left off worse than we were before,” said Christopher Wilson, the deputy director of the Wilson Center’s Mexico Institute.
Gosh, if the U.S. pushes too hard and Canada decides "No Deal" is better than a "Bad Deal", don't you think the U.S. will feel the effects too?
I sure hope there are some adults in the room during these negotiations. Funny thing is that U.S.-Canada trade is more or less balanced. So, like, where is the problem, Donald?
46
@ on line reader. There was never any problem other than bringing it into the 21st century. Oh, and he thought it was Obama’s agreement!
5
I think the problem is based in Moscow...
3
Dear Minister Freeland,
Please do not cave to these ghastly creatures.
Your party, and especially Justin, do not receive much support in British Columbia due to his support of the Alberta tar sands and his turnabout on ditching First Past the Post (which may have served a purpose in colonial times, perhaps like America's Electoral College).
What we Canadians may lose from the Americans we will more than make up from our Commonwealth allies, the EU, China and India.
So, Minister Freeland, just say no to ghastly American wind bags. If you can stay strong, who knows, perhaps your party may win a few ridings in British Columbia next year. I know it is a long shot but stranger things have happened. Just look at Mr Trump. He truly seems as strange as it can get.
Best, Yet Another British Columbian
72
Ironically, we happen to be in Victoria for a mini break.
As a fellow Canadian, I couldn’t disagree more.
This isn’t about whether we like the negotiation tactics, nor whether we agree with President Trump and his politics.
70% of our economy is based upon selling goods & services to the United States. We are fooling ourselves, if we think we are in the drivers seat.
As President Trump at the recent G7 summit in Quebec “I don’t blame our trading partners for wanting a better deal, that’s their job. My job is to get the best deal for people of The United States”
I’m not a supporter of President Trump, but he is far from a fool. He knows that Prime Minister Trudeau needs to do a deal, both for the future of the country & quite frankly, to be taken seriously in the next election.
2
Canada’s foreign minister Chrystia Freeland is short and female. Trump will not be able to get past that.
34
@NAS
She also knows 'big words'.
54
It's time to build a wall around, above and below the White House. Then cut the telecom lines in and out.
39
Typical Donald Trump, divisive and vindictive. Not including Canada in the NAFTA agreement with Mexico was deliberate. It is all about being spiteful towards Prime Minister Trudeau.
54
Instead of rushing to Washington, Canada ought to declare war on the United States. I would gladly cross the border to fight for Canada against the forces of evil and hatred that Trump's America represents.
36
Congress gave Trump authority to renegotiate NAFTA, a trilateral agreement; thus Trump has zero legal authority to sign a deal with only Mexico and cancel NAFTA. (according to US trade/legal experts who appear on Canadian tv to provide facts).
And, if in fact, there is a "deal" between the US and Mexico, then release the draft; otherwise, all of this talk talk talk by those who are not part of the negotiating teams, is useless; random comments by Mnuchin are useless; and Trump hasn't a clue what's going on and lies about everything in any event.
(I would note that according to the Mexican Ambassador to Canada, Mexico and Canada have been in non-stop communication/dialogue during these weeks that Canada's not been at the table. Of the six things Team Trump was demanding, they got one..perhaps the reality is: Team Trump is getting played by Canada and Mexico because Trump is so desperate to have any number of photo-ops proclaiming his genius for the benefit of the midterms, and he just had to have one yesterday because Senator McCain was stealing air time from Toddler Trump.)
46
Are you telling me that US dairy products as sold in supermarkets in the States are superior to those sold in Canada or the EU?
Hogwash.
There is not a reputable chef or baker in either country that
would touch the stuff.
Even if they could find it.
F3
26
Having spent a couple hours at the Kingston Lablaws, I’m inclined to believe most everything in Canadian supermarkets are better than in American stores.
6
It's unfortunate that a smart, progressive, superb & deserved official like Chrystia Freeland feels she has to jet back here to kowtow to this blundering bottle-blond bully my ugly-American colleagues call a president.
Hang tough Oh Canada, don't let our corrupt Don push you around!
52
@Tldr
Thank you for recognizing Minister Freeland for what she is. Neither our Prime Minister or Minister seem to be respected. Too bad. Or should I say "Sad".
24
@Tldr
That's the way it's played in the news - the dramatic angle. But kowtow – no - humor is closer to the truth - diplomacy, pragmatism, that's what adults do when confronted with a temper tantrum - meet it head on, humor it and deescalate.
3
No, Canada should withdraw from Trump's version
take it or leave it bargaining form of "NAFTA".
Canada is self-sufficent in resources which should
in any case be developed and valued in her own state first and foremost. Her standing in the Commonwealth and her
multiple other trading partners including those in the TPP block are strong and robust.
Canada should punch back with excise taxes on oil bitumen, potash, minerals, water and more.
Walk away Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Freeland, and demonstrateto the world that Canada refutes bullying.
69
I agree. Do not cave in! You deserve better than this treatment.
10
What's next - "Build the Northern Wall, and make Canada pay for it"?
21
April 18, 2017
President Donald J. Trump
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
We are writing to urge you to address Canada’s protectionist dairy trade policies so that they honor their international commitments under NAFTA and
other trade agreements.
In a blatant violation of international trade agreements
it is party to, Canada unilaterally shut down a thriving market for U.S. ultra-filtered milk. This illegal action hit dozens of Wisconsin farmers so far, leaving a million pounds of milk production without a market. In New York
around 70 dairy farmers and millions in sales have been affected by the new Canadian regulations. If these multi-generational farm families cannot find another market for their milk, they will be forced out of business.
Nearly one year ago, we, along with other state and U.S. dairy officials, warned our federal partners - and Canadian industry and government representatives at all levels - that protectionist regulations would harm U.S. dairy producers.
Unfortunately, these warnings have been borne out. In spite of our good faith efforts to engage them on this issue, the Canadians were never forthcoming in their response to our concerns. ..."
Sincerely,
Scott Walker Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of Wisconsin Governor of New York
7
@Woof
a) The U.S. sells FIVE TIMES more agricultural products to Canada than the reverse.
b) The Canadian supply management system (quotas) was NEVER INCLUDED IN NAFTA. In fact it was specifically excluded.
c) The U.S. has its own agricultural support programs (farmers in both countries are good at complaining). In the U.S. case, it has resorted to subsidizing dairy production to the tune of 40% which has resulted in OVER PRODUCTION. That is why U.S. farmers are so eager to find another market for their production.
d) The U.S. has its own high tariffs on various agricultural goods I believe almonds are one. And some years ago the U.S. prevented Brazilian-produced ethanol from entering the U.S. market as Brazil, with a large sugar cane crop would easily have overwhelmed the U.S. ethanol producers. So the U.S. is hardly coming to the table as the virtuous wronged party.
e) I certainly hope common sense rather than jingoistic Canada-Bashing prevails in these meetings.
34
@Woof Yeah, Canada closed that loophole on you. Meanwhile the US has protectionist Tariff Rate Quotas on dairy as well, plus sugar and tobacco. Plus Canada's market cannot help your overproduction that requires billions of subsidy.
Stop the hypocrisy and go back to governing your own affairs. Canada has done nothing wrong.
2
Dear governors Cuomo and Walker,
Before we increase your existing surplus in dairy trade with Canada and throw our doors wide open to your heavily subsidized and hormone-filled dairy exports may I suggest that you address those two issues. I'm sure you'll understand that it's a matter of Canada's national security that we protect our ability to feed ourselves especially in the face of flaky and unreliable trade partners.
Sincerely,
Canada
19
Oh, please. People should have gotten used to Trump’s negotiating style by now. Bombastic hyperbole at first, loaded with threats, then a ‘gracious’ climbdown, an offer of an olive branch to his hitherto opponent and voilá, he has a deal.
And of course the media plays it up.
The new NAFTA, or whatever they will call it, will be like the old, with virtually no change, except a little hemming here and there.
Mark my words.
39
Don’t rush. No running! Don’t play into Individual-1’s hand. Just ignore him. It’s a scam anyway. Don’t be his victim, Canada. You are smarter than that.
39
Oh, my. The last time that Ms Freeland “rushed”to a foreign capital to try to “save” a trade deal was her calamitous visit to Namur to push the Wallonian parliament to pass CETA.
1
@Perspective And they did. What is your point?
17
The commentators who gloat or worry about Chrystia Freeland rushing back to Washington should hold their judgement a bit. Every tool of character, judgment, intelligence and temperament that a negotiator needs is sharper in her belt than in Trump's. And politically, Trump needs NAFTA now more than Freeland and Trudeau. Freeland will be able to play Trump like a fiddle. Or, given that we are talking about Trump, a kazoo. In the end, there will be a few symbolic changes that Trump can lie to his base about, NAFTA will be renewed, and Trudeau and Freeland will visit Mexico to drink Molsons and Margaritas with their opposite numbers, sniggering about Trump.
45
"Kazoo," brilliant!
5
Trump is incredibly insecure, constantly needing to prove himself and in desperate need for PR victories. Our adversaries and trading partners all know this. That makes Trump the worst negotiator of all time. Everything the liar says is always the exact opposite.
19
Art of the Deal tactics, maximize leverage, deception, talk big, accomplish little. Like the way Team Trump is negotiating the Ultimate Peace Deal with the Palestinians: cut all humanitarian aid to force them to accept his one sided deal. Starve them out, collapse the PLO, turn Gaza into a kill zone.
27
So Trump wants mobster-like setup: protection for money. Want to have security and trade? Pay up! Sign skewed and unfair trade agreement to be under US umbrella.
Isn’t that a clear sign of a declining empire? Military and extortion is all that is left.
We can’t make stuff anymore other countries would buy so we go to plan B: extortion. Our capitalism clearly failed so we go into fascism.
20
Canada will have to make certain concessions so that Trump can brag to his base about his deal making skills. On the other hand Canada can not afford to simply walk away from NAFTA. Pragmatism must override principle when so many Canadian jobs are at stake.
4
Canada needs to take a pragmatic approach here, forget about the optics, and sign the darned thing already. It doesn't look that much different than NAFTA anyway.
When negotiating with someone like Trump who is like real smart and has all the best words, you just smile, shake their hand, and leave them to their boasting. We don't need to look like we've won anything here. No matter what happens on this deal, we already know which country is the better one.
I thank my late father every day for not following his older brother to the United States of America to work in the Star Wars program after WW2. Who knew that land of the free would eventually lie north of the 49th, not south of it.
24
@Memi von Gaza
Yes, I have thought that Canada should eliminate the absolutely infuriating emotion that President Trump enjoys stirring up, just look at the cold hard numbers and facts, and if the unemotional deal looks good, then signing on. I hope that the Canadian negotiators can separate the anger from the substance. Eventually, President Trump will be gone, but Canada and the US will endure. Of course, whether Canada wants to be as closely allied with the US is up for question. Will we be invaded?
8
@albeaumont invaded? Only for your clean water.
1
@Rick Tornello
That clean water may sound like a joke, but there is a possibility that another bright boy governor will apply to pump water out of 'his' side of the Great Lakes to feed the midwest. Just turn the fountains off in Vegas.
1
Canada is keeping everything at arm's length for the moment, and no one is rushing to join anything, while being bullied by the American President. The United States needs Canada far, far more than it is the other way around.
Everything is being kept in the context that the midterms are going to be a hammer blow to the President's power as he loses Congress to Democrats. The President might not even last his term, because of impeachment proceedings that are surely to happen once Democrats are in power. At the very least the President and his party are going to be out of power in 2020.
So, Canada is going to be smart and not sign onto any regressive deal now, when they can just wait it out.
There are already signs that the auto industry will absorb the 2.5% taxes that republicans would impose, and the Canadian government can initiate moves to depress the loonie a little to still stay competitive.
We shall see.
13
@FunkyIrishmanWhy do so many people think the Republicans will lose the House, and lose seats in the Senate. I hope that happens. But if the economy stays as is and gas prices stay as is, the Republicans will gain in both the House and the Senate. Americans vote with their pocketbooks. They don't care if Trump is a serial adulterer, a horrible liar, a con man. He will be over 50% soon in popularity ratings.
3
@ohio
Every single poll with just a generic republican loses to Democrats by 10%. That is why.
2
@ohio
Perhaps Canada could help with those gas prices: we can stop selling our oil, very cheaply, to the US and demand market price. That'll get people's attention, no? No more of that preferential treatment that NAFTA gives the US for our oil.
1
More bombast from President trump. Who would expect anything else? This so-called new agreement with Mexico actually is totally within existing NAFTA, featuring minor tweaks around the edges. So,while Trump hates the NAFTA agreement, this now is a continuation of it...certainly not the biggest trade deal ever.
9
If Canada really wants a deal with Trump, they should try to imagine negotiating with a raging alcoholic who's recently gone off his mood stabilizers and is waving around a broken piece of glass while screaming incoherent nonsense at the top of his lungs.
And then think, "Maybe we should do this later?"
Food for thought.
23
@Chicago Guy
Trump doesnt drink.
@mmnnng: no one said he did. He just acts like it
I have no knowledge about the international treaties. If President Trump negates the Nafta agreement with Canada, do we still have to send energy etc. to the US so cheaply? Can Canada charge world rates?
32
@albeaumont Quebec may have a contract with northern US states that must be fulfilled.
I'm not sure how this benefits the United States. A greater share of each vehicle reportedly must be built in North America. This does not necessarily mean more jobs in the U.S. because automakers could satisfy this requirement in Mexico.
Likewise the requirement that a share of the workers make at least $16 per hour does not necessarily translate into higher pay for U.S. autoworkers, who already are paid more.
It may resolve some tariff issues; however, these are problems of Pres. Trump's own making, inasmuch as he imposed tariffs in the first place.
11
Can't people get it through their heads that Trump won't be in office forever? Can't we prioritize good policymaking? Although I do wonder - the Republicans made a great deal of noise about making Obama a one-term President, and Democrats treated Bush like a cartoon. Is partisanship always going to serve to provide Washington with protective cover for corruption and contempt for people who are outside of elite circles?
2
Canada will sign it and like it.
Trump is running the globe now and you all here can't stop him.
Don't count on the mid terms with consumer confidence at its all time highest on record.
Amazing.
11
@Joe Paper So you think the bullying will get you the results you want. The heck with friendship with your Northern Neighbors for hundreds of years. The GOP want to "open" the Canadian market to more US products but will Canadians buy them? Who wants chlorinated washed chicken with tons of anti boitics and hormones? Our mass produced animal factories are not the envy of the world. Trump and GOP can't control other countries consumerism. I hope Canada and other EU countries boycott the heck of our "American Made" products.
18
@topazgirl170
Since the US imposed tariffs on Canada for steel and aluminum since we are a “national security threat”, I have bought I package of strawberries, two bunches of parsley, and three bunches of cilantro from the US . I doubt the US will notice my boycott, but I’m doing it anyway.
3
@ topazgirl I’ve been ignoring products originating from the US since Nov 2016. It’s kinda fun, a challenge. Dill pickles from India, South African lemons; local whenever I can. Don’t care about the cost; it takes every grain of sand to make a beach, one that hopefully one day a great carcass will flounder upon it, and about time.
3
Good for the President. Canada is not a friend to the US economy, their dairy tariffs are putting upstate NY dairy farmers out of businesses. They were dumping manufacturing items into the US and then got indigent when caught. Canada needs to get to the table quickly and decide if they want the US as a trading partner. Their economy nedds the US more then we need them.
14
@MJS Dairy was never part of NAFTA, so how can Canada be putting farmers in New York out of business? Since we are not friends anymore, we might as well cancel NAFTA, NORAD, the Five Eyes Agreement, Pre-clearance by American border guards on Canadian soil, electricity sales to the US, etc. With friends like you, who needs enemies.
46
@MJS I would hardly describe Canada as indigent. Have you been listening to that Faux News?
15
@MJS The United States has 9 million cows in 75,000 dairy herds, with an average herd size of 120 cows
In 2011, there were 965,600 cows in Canada producing an average of 80.5 hl of milk per cow. In 2016, there were approximately 959,100 dairy cows in Canada, producing an average of 88.3 hl of milk per cow.
How on earth is Canada harming American dairy farmers?
18
Come on people, stop running to Trump to kiss his feet because you are scared. Freeland should have stayed in Canada, sent a tweet to Trump the Terrible to set up a meeting to discuss it all. Pick the largest American exporters to Canada and triple their tariffs. Trump will call back fast when American companies start calling for help and relief because they can no longer make double digit profits due to tariff payments. Start taking the initiative and make him sweat.
21
It was a great deal for Mexican workers. They are going to enjoy higher wages and making those cars that used to be made in Canada.
3
@Me Too, why not encourage Kim to nuke us while you’re at it? It feels like we’re all happy to stand Trump in front of the firing squad forgetting that as a country we’re standing right behind him.
3
@Me Too No, Freeland has her opening, and she's taking it. She and her team are prepared.
1
Canada, please don't sign!
Call his bluff-
Just another poorly thought through trump rush job.
Congress has final say and needs 60 votes to pull out of NAFTA.
trump won't be around long enough for that- which would be many months from now.
Mexico and U.S. were to discuss only issues between U.S. and Mexico.
They went beyond those issues - leaving Canada out, and now giving Canada mere days to agree and sign.
Trump will never realize that being President of the U.S.A. is not like being CEO of sleazy trump organization where anything goes and mob like control keeps it all humming.
24
It’s easy, Trump’s motive is no less than to embarrass Trudeau, and then hopefully run him out of office. Then have him replaced by trump kowtowing conservatives that’ll tear Canada’s progressive country apart. The end game is clear.
23
@Ps
You're absolutely on the mark; thus, the secret visit by our former corporate hack PC Prime Minister Harper to the White House...and on Canada day no less!
10
With things looking shaky for Republicans in November, Trump decides to declare another foreign policy "win." But based on information disclosed so far the changes look cosmetic more than substantial. It addresses the automotive sector, nips and tucks a few things so it looks like there will be more "made in America." But it leaves a lot of questions. What about other sectors? Also, if cost of finished automotive vehicles go up, how does that impact other US industries (not just consumers)? How will it affect trucking, construction, retail, etc. - all of which will be impacted by cost of motor vehicles? What about disruptions in supply chains if Canada is left out? How will US assembled cars match up against foreign-assembled cars in the global market? Will US car assembly actually go down because cost of US assembly actually goes up?
A lot of this seems like a game of three-card monty, where gains in one sector comes at the expense of another sector of the US economy. But of course, none of those actual details really matter to Trump. What matters is that voters perceive him as "winning" before the November elections (when nothing will actually have been finalized.) As usual in American politics, perception "trumps" reality. Americans have fallen for Trump's shell games before. So why not again?
8
All three major political parties in Canada support supply management of dairy (and other) products. The actual amount of milk produced in Canada is small compared to the US. Both California and Wisconsin each produce more milk than the whole country of Canada. So the destruction of the supply management system would be a very short term solution, with it not taking much time for the Canadian market to be flooded and the dairy famers of the US back in the same boat of over production that they are in now. US dairy farmers are subsidized by taxes on US taxpayers, while the Canadian system is one of consumers paying directly as they purchase dairy products to have a stabilized market. Sort of a cooperative thing, like the medical system in Canada.
42
@Geraldine Goodman - That's why some hate the system in the Canada. Also, the products overall are superior to the US products. Many Wisconsin dairy farmers admire the Canadian system and the Canadians do it without the dependance of undocumented workers. The Wisconsin dairy industry relies heavily on undocumented labor to complete some of the most difficult and dangerous work on the farms. Some many industries in the US rely on cheap labor in order to earn profits and to prosper.
10
Whether an agreement concerned nuclear disarmament or international trade, Trump will always claim that the United States got the short end of the stick when the agreement was made by a previous administration. And he will always claim that he got a better deal (whether this is true of not) when he negotiates the agreement. As a result, if I were negotiating for Mexico or Canada, I would be especially tough with Trump, because he needs an agreement and will claim victory regardless of how bad it is for the United States.
18
Trump, the con man not a President
Trump is a master at grandstanding and bragging. He’s a proven liar and a con artist. Like his book “The Art of the Deal”, whatever he and his administration negotiates in trade or foreign policy will be of zero substance and great showman ship. He will continue to wreck havoc on our country and with our friends across the world until one day, hopefully not in the too distance future, he is dethroned.
11
I’m grateful to Trump because Canada will be pushed to build pipelines to export our oil to Europe and China. At double the price our greedy yankee neighbour pays because they know we have no other buyer available. Then I fully expect Canada to reduce the import of services which give us a trade deficit. So tariffs on Hilton, Holiday Inn, Starbucks etc., all the US financial companies like Templeton, and of course Walmart, et al. On a personal basis I don’t buy American wine or produce anymore, none. And I have no intention to set foot in the country and spend my money there. I’m not alone. We are America’s largest trading partner, we rescued your diplomats in Iran at grave personal risk and gave succour to thousands when planes couldn’t land in the US, and we have provided NORAD protection for years which I hope we will close down. No more because we are clearly not friends. We need to stop being afraid to establish markets elsewhere. We will have short term pain for long term gain. The US will regret trying to bully us.
64
@Cranford The US is not bullying us. Trump is "trying" to bully us. We must not conflate the American people with the American president. No matter how exasperated we become with the president we will always support the people. Always.
8
@Cranford
Trump bullies everybody. I believe that the vast majority of Americans consider Canada a friend and ally (though the number may be going down due to the hate propaganda spewed on Fox "news" about the evil Canadian Socialist Republic). Fox plays up the Canada boogieman to benefit Trump's short term agenda and the Trump sheep follow. At the end of the day they make no more than 35% of the American people.
5
America is not Trump. To the majority of Americans he is an embarrassment. I humbly apologize to our partners around the world for our lack of attention to a political system that allows such a crude, hateful, selfish, immature individual to be elected to the highest office by a minority of voters. Please recall this is the same country that elected Obama twice. Every country has its Trump elements, I’m sorry those elements are currently ascendant here, we need to do better.
3
A closer examination of the U.S. - Mexico deal indicates that the changes from the past Nafta deal are minimal. If so, Canada will quickly wish to sign on as well. We are becoming quite accustomed to Mr. Trump's need to rebrand or relabel everything he touches as "new" or "the best ever". It's not. If, however, the concessions asked of Canada are too great he will learn that there is great support amongst Canadians for going it alone. We have secured trade deals with the EU and Asia and our trade with China will continue to grow. And we won't worry too much about the tariffs he wishes to place on steel, aluminum, and natural gas. It seems we are already seeing expanding markets for all. In short, it would be great to sing another deal like Nafta as it truly was fair for everyone. If not? Well, we'll survive after the demise of the single largest trading bloc in the world.
21
There is no deal. Just a bunch of smoke. Congress has final say. Further, what is to prevent the new President of Mexico to turn around and say this is not my deal and walk away. This not the end of NAFTA. Trump needs Canada.
9
Whatever are the authors of this article saying?
The administration has been perfectly clear that there is no new agreement with Mexico yet.
The agreement with Canada is still in force. In any case, Canada’s Foreign Minister wouldn’t fly to Washington to sign anything that’s not yet negotiated, much less to join an agreement with Mexico that doesn’t exist yet.
Really, a bizarre article.
12
I've read through many of these comments just now and find it interesting that much of the commentary from Canadian readers shows knowledge of NAFTA, TPP, their histories, as well as economic consequences of international trade that we Americans don't remember or don't know.
Interesting, but shameful that we Americans are ignorant of so much, but we can shout "We're number one!" at the drop of a hat.
51
Mary, what’s past is history.
We learn our lessons and we write the new order. Simple
1
What do you expect from a society that uses social media as literature.
13
@Anthony don't blame on social media. It's the older americans who are enjoying the bullying. They are the ones with the romantic ideas of America's greatness. Why do think the boomers and older Americans so keen on changing laws and creating trade deals that will effect generations long after they're dead?
2
Congress gave Trump permission to renegotiate NAFTA as a tri-lateral agreement. They gave him no authority to negotiate a bilateral agreement with Mexico. Those American states which border Canada and whose economies benefit from the Canadian-U.S. trading relationship will no sit idly by.
13
The US constitution clearly delegates the international negotiations to the executive branch of the US government. President Trump does what he wants how he wants for the benefit of the people.
5
@frank savage. To negotiate, yes, but Congress must approve any outcome. As for the benefit of the people, do you mean the one percent?
11
Trump does what he wants for the benefit of Trump. I feel greatly diminished with him representing our country. He will betray you just as he has betrayed everyone else around him including his wives and children. He cares not for you or the American people.
3
Trump's strategy is to put tariffs on cars made in Canada in American branch plants and destined for the United States. The logic boggles the mind.
16
RE: The Commerce secretary said that he was confident that Canada would ultimately join the deal because the Canadian economy “can’t survive very well” without the United States.
How refreshing to have business people in charge. Canada's economy is 1/10 of the US'. But past adminstrations have rolled over and made bad trade deals. Canada needs the US. The US does not need Canada.
7
@Reader In Wash, DC
I would not be so sure both Canada, and Mexico have better bargaining power now than they did when NAFTA was signed. China and other such as Russia, Europe are biting at the bits to make deals with them. We would need Canada ore than they need us. Yes we are now there biggest trading partner but that may not always be the case. It just makes sense because of proximity less distance for goods to travel than say across the oceans. If I were Canada i would looking to find and make deals with other countries just so i would not be so reliant on the US.
8
Your commerce secretary is remarkably arrogant for someone facing criminal allegations while working for someone facing criminal allegations. How refreshing to have businesspeople in charge.
12
Yes, this deal will likely raise prices for consumers. It is essentially a tax.
On the other hand, when U.S. manufacturing workers lose jobs and are provided (appropriately) with financial assistance for housing, food, medical insurance, and education, it is also a tax.
There is no free lunch. Either way, we pay. It’s better to pay for a solution that keeps our fellow citizens employed at livable wages.
6
Canada and Mexico, play delay game because Trump wants to have a deal before midterm. He would sign a dud later on and call it a winner. Give it to him.
5
@CarolinaJoe
Absolutely. Trump is just looking for some fireworks before the midterm elections. Distract, distract, and bully. It won't help him though.
3
Canada, hold fast to your ethical and national principles. Don't allow this disgraced American president to bully you as he has attempted with Mexico and with his own countrymen, not least Senator John McCain, in death.
46
Chrystia Freeland is very popular in Canada, because of her toughness and intelligence. She has Canadians behind her, who expect her to hold her ground against Trump.
The photo at the top of the article says it all.
68
I went to the Canadian embassy once for a concert of Canadian musicians. The embassy staff were paranoid and high strung. We, the patrons of this musical diplomacy, were searched and had to empty our pockets and walk through a metal detector. Serious faced embassy staff walked about during the performance. There was a surveillance camera up in the corner of the high ceiling watching us all. We had to provide our names before the concert so they knew who we were individually.
It was a strange experience, not what one would expect from the friendly neighbors to the North.
I also went to a concert and reception at the Mexican embassy. We weren't searched, no metal detector. I didn't see any cameras, but one must assume all embassies have them. It was a totally different experience. It was during El Dia de los Muertos. People were in a festive mood. They were happy to see us. Viva Mexico!
2
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Canadians are nice people. I have cousins in Canada. You have a fairly open border to the north because there's not a lot of trouble coming from that prosperous well-run country.
Mexicans might be nice people also but Mexico is a de facto narco-state will little control over the gangs and violence they are exporting to your country.
The rest of the world is watching to see how serious this is getting and whether concrete steps to re-arrange the patterns of world trade are going to be needed. No one is expecting the US not to act in it's own self interest. The question is does the US know the difference between short term interest and long term interest.
Or is this part of a sea change rolling around the world that will smash the current world order as we know it.
3
I’ve entered Canada hundreds of times from multiple locations, entered Mexico a few times including on a motorcycle and more distantly, as a hippie in a Volkswagen. As any Canadian can probably tell you, the worst treatment is always by US customs and immigration, and that’s whether you’re a US citizen or a Canadian. I’m amazed that you feel that they shouldn’t have cameras or know your name at the embassy. People get their things and their bodies scanned at US embassies..
2
Dear America,
You didn’t elect a president in Donald Trump, you didn’t elect a leader, a statesman, or a diplomat. Instead, you elected a reaction. The electorate bucked against the system by angrily replacing a detached and insouciant status quo with a scion of reality TV and a vicious, snarling, corrupt, political neophyte. How was that going to end well for you? How was it supposed to end well for the rest of the world? Did you really care, so great and so blind your angst?
Trump’s nihilist devil may care diplomacy is geared for ratings: his performance has turned news into the ultimate reality platform on a global scale. If it wasn’t for the fact that he’s being investigated each way till Sunday, Trump might be enjoying himself. Instead, his ridiculous radicalism demonstrates his own amateurism and the rabid ideology of his administration.
That being said, NAFTA is not perfect, and Canada is not perfectly governed. The status quo that Americans rejected in lieu of chaos still reigns steadfastly up here. We are a nation of vast resources with a tiny population that should be vastly richer as a result. We’re not, however. Our economy is geared to corporate monopolies who historically dictate government policy. Our only saving grace is socialised medicine, and that hardly makes us a utopia. Our vast resources are peddled in the world market but are incredibly expensive for Canadians to consume. Change needs to happen in NAFTA to balance the needs of ordinary people.
19
Truly we are sorry and trying to fix this!! He is a nightmare.
14
Remember the american people did not elect Trump, the electoral college did. But your point is well taken. We have a lot of dumb people down here.
7
Maybe the US should stop subsidizing industrial agriculture and stop pumping our animals full of hormones and antibiotics. Then we might produce products that other more conscientious countries would want to buy.
We would also be producing healthier food and would lessen the damage to our planet with the heavy use of chemicals, which end up in our food, waterways, fish, soil, air, and humans.
I hope Canada can hold tight and not give our boorish Bully in Chief a victory.
72
Playing one against the other, what a strategy. True to form for Trump.
14
This winning that dear leader gives us is, well, as fake as his presidency.
Holding a valued ally and trading partner hostage to avoid witnessing a Trump temper tantrum and further his campaign of deflection, obfuscation and deceit?
It doesn’t work for many of us and hopefully Canada and our senate won’t succumb and cave in for the grifter.
Just another episode of Trump’s smoke and mirror show.
14
Now that trump has a preliminary deal with murderers and rapists he can focus all his attention on that national security threat to the north. Makes you wonder what's swirling around under that golden dome?
21
@RNS. I have an idea about the substance that is swirling under that golden dome but I must keep the idea to myself.
6
Hopefully the voters of the US realized now what it is to have an illiterate in the Oval Office...
11
@Think bout i. The illiteracy that Trump exhibits is a badge of honor in some camps.
8
We still don't have a good, independent analysis of what is in this deal that everyone is in such a suspicious rush to sign. The headline elements of the auto industry changes suggest nothing so much as that in the near future Mexican auto workers will be paid a bit more to produce more auto parts. The composition requirements, increasing from 62% to 75%, might have slowed the jobs horse before it left the barn. But Mexico's industrial capacity and potential have greatly increased in the quarter century since NAFTA was signed. This is not bringing jobs back to the U.S., unless they are for a very few operators of many, many robots. Given Trump and his cronies, I have to wonder what is below the headlines in the fine print.
9
Trade is a complex web of interlocking interests and I do no presume to understand much of it. If Trump can do something to protect American jobs, create a few more, and raise American wages, hold down consumer prices on the things we need while also protecting the environment, public health and keeping good relations with our neighbors, the credit is his. But because he has already proven himself a grandstander and braggart, a liar, and a con artist, I expect that whatever deal he comes up with will be more show than substance and in the process, he will have weakened our historic relations with out nearest neighbors.
26
Raising NA content on autos to over 70% was already agreed to in TPP which was scrapped by Trump. In addition, Canada agreed to give up more access to our dairy market. So Trump is resurrecting TPP. As usual he talks a big game of bullying and accomplishes very little in the end, while at the same time insulting and abusing anyone he comes in contact with. There are no Canadian auto companies. Trump is trying to shift American auto companies profits back to America along with our jobs. I feel so good now when I think about our government spending tens of billions of Canadian dollars to help save American car companies!
18
Er...NAFTA was ratified by Congress. More Republicans than Democrats in house and senate voted for it! Trump has to abrogate it legally. LOL
11
There is absolutely no way Canada will give up supply management of its Dairy Industry in Quebec. If that is a “must do” for Trump, there will be no trilateral deal, and likely no bilateral deal. Trump was authorized to negotiate Trilateral deal. Any other deal will hit a plethora of obstacles in the US Congress and require 60 votes in the Senate. Tariffs on autos will hurt US workers more than Canadian workers. So, Trump backs down on the Supply management obsession or there is a very high probability there will be no deal passed in the US. Just the facts.
37
Failed deal with North Korea has forced Trump to regain his ego by beating on Canada.
43
I didn't think my opinion of this administration could get any lower and then: ta da! Their thuggish and bullying behaviour only gets worse. This group of people have a genius for taking the bar lower. I wonder of Canada-US relations will ever recover. I do everything in my power to avoid American goods and won't set foot in the country until the decent people get rid of Trump and his henchmen. Stay strong, Chystia.
58
Canada- As a friend, I would advise you not to make a deal with the devil. The price is never worth it.
82
The new incoming president Lopez Obrador wants the new deal to include Canada. Is this the real reason the Trump administration is pushing this now, because L. Obrador doesn't take office until December 1?
14
“....ratchet up pressure to get a deal done by the end of the week “ ... my advice is the same as Trump’s to the senate in the case of Merrick Garland’s appointment to SCOTUS: ...”delay, delay...” and for the same reasons: the current president of Mexico has lost his election and the new one may not be favourable to this deal , and the current American administration may not control Congress very soon.
16
The Mexican presidency is limited to one six-years term; Nigel was not up for re-election. I agree with you that delay should be the MO when dealing with Trump.
7
It's pretty obvious that Mueller's noose is tightening swiftly and Trump is feeling the heat, so here's a fresh distraction for the rubes.
The international financial criminal Wilbur Ross has no business negotiating anything other than his plea bargains. They're trying to suddenly hustle this thing through before the new administration in Mexico takes office.
Trump continues to insult Canada, our largest trading partner, and spew his economically illiterate nonsense about trade deficits and bad agreements, notwithstanding that he often crows about how awesome and robust "his" economy is.
They don't care about raising consumer prices in the US, only about posturing and distracting and showboating and twisting arms when they should be shaking hands.
These people are disgusting and vile, but Ross is right about one thing: They'd better shove this through the corrupt Republican Congress pronto before the blue wave wipes them out.
24
On a clear day we can see the EU from Labrador: on a worse day we can see the EU from Point May Nfld. and even skip over for a brief visit and lunch.
Just saying.
15
If you think that the EU is waiting for you with open arms you are in for a wake up call. In a way one could argue that they are, but not in a sense you imagine.
The EU when it comes to trade policies is worse than the US. There is a reason Britain is leaving. Our Northern friends would do well for themselves to climb down from their high horse and take the deal Trump is giving. They will not find a better one.
3
@Frank Savage
No "high horse" in play here, just plain calculus.
I never said that the EU awaits us. Yet its prospects and outcomes now must be weighed against any deal "offered" by Trump.
Again, just saying.
2
@Frank Savage
Canada has now a free-trade agreement with the EU. We started diversifying our international trade 19 months ago because of the Bully. Canada will renew NAFTA with the US, not with Trump.
4
The GOP and its Libertarian and selfish ways has now expanded things from merely being a party of bullies to being an entire country of bullies.
Does America really want to be a country of only bullies? Do we not see how the Reagan version of Libertarianism led us here?
7
@Gustav I just wish to point out that America is a continent. The United-States-of-America is the name of the country. One small step to stop the bully attitude is by not using the continent's name as if it was a country.
12
@Ode. I have said that for years.
1
What's up with these so-called US negotiators? NAFTA isn't going anywhere unless Congress approves it. And anything other than a trilateral agreement with US, Mexico, and Canada would require 60 votes in the Senate. Trump is an amateur and it shows here.
40
Is there no end to the perfidy of this awful grifter in the Oval Office? Canada, "treated as an outsider?" He and the deplorable henchmen around him, like Wilbur Ross, have no concept of diplomacy, economics, government or kindness.
Who will deliver us from this scourge? VOTE, and vote as if your life depends upon it, because it does.
45
@Wendy Aronson
Wendy, I've been thinking this too. For those who lack (adult level) diplomacy and negotiation skills and / or have no interest in developing them, bullying and threats might seem to be a reasonable alternative for trying to get one's way. What they have not discovered is that these are not reasonable alternatives if the goal is to arrive at mutually acceptable / beneficial solutions.
4
How's that wall thingee going. . . ?
18
Threatening Canada? Such a great idea. Clearly the mark of a great negotiator.
This administration is nothing more than a farce.
"Out damn stop, out I say"
Macbeth
Macbeth.
18
For me, climate change is everything. When I read that this agreement might increase the cost of an automobile in the US, I think that's great. Let us pay the real cost of the carbon that is released to manufacture our toys.
9
@Fernando The real answer to the problem climate change is to have multi effort of taxes , legislation and regulations, all something you will never see as long as Republicans control congress .
11
When Captain Bone Spurs keeps repeating the lie that the US loses $800 billion a year do his minions actually believe him. The US ran a trade surplus with Canada last year. More importantly Captain Bone Spurs doesn't even have a grade school grasp of economics. A trade deficit does not mean a country has lost money. It means a country was able to buy more goods and services from another country than it sold to them. That's not a bad thing it's a good thing.
Also, it seems that aside from the dispute over dairy, the "deal" Captain Bone Spur struck with Mexico contains most of the demands Canada was requesting all along. Especially no sunset clause. Remember when Captain Bone Spur called into question our Prime Minister the remarks our PM made included that Canada would not agree to an automatic sunset clause. Thank you Captain Bone Spur for being so anxious to spin a "victory" for your minions that you have already given Canada what it wants before even sitting down to hammer out the final details.
Captain Bone Spurs is negotiating a "great" trade deal for the US like he negotiated that great nuclear disarmament deal with North Korea. What an incompetent statesman.
99
Sorry , but the president of the United States cannot unilateral end NAFTA , and Most certainly he does not have the power to sign an agreement with any nation without the consent of congress . I guess if trump and his supporters where more educated they would already know that fact .
29
Inquiring minds would like to know:
Why is Trump throwing a tantrum at Trudeau?
What does it profit Congress to sell its authority for trade negotiations to the president?
(This type of barter has become the rule rather than the exception with the Republicans and this admin – the payback must be quite something!).
21
@angel98
Beating up on a weaker country, for all other fialures Trump has had elswhere.
2
@angel98 Trump has been insulting Trudeau because he thinks Canadians don't bite. He's wrong.
8
@angel98 because he's better looking. Seriously, I think that's it.
8
Surely the media knows that all this "trade wars" was/is part of the deflection tactics - that tries to move the news cycle
away from what is negative and Anti-Trump news.
Like Trump's Google scam, and have no doubt that it's a scam,
to deflect away from his Anti-American action of not flying the flag at half-mast for Senator John McCain an American hero.
*Deflection is the acceptance of guilt.
Like acceptance of a pardon is an acceptance of guilt.
20
@PropagandandTreason
Lets be honest that everything that Trump says and does is a deflection away from the Mueller Criminal Investigation into the criminal attack by Russia, an enemy, on the democratic election process - which is sovereign.
The Google propaganda by Trump has its origin in Russia, which was then peddled by the extreme right wing and now by Trump.
No coincidence - but open and in plain sight collusion
and conspiracy with Russia, the main enemy.
The Kremlin is writing the text for Trump and the GOP.
19
Canada is simply looking out for their interest ahead of the American worker and consumer. Our government is doing the same. If feelings are hurt, too bad. All this talk about about friendship and bullying is nonsense. Canadian officials would love nothing more than an agreement slanted in their favor. Thats why we sit down and hammer out what is allowed in the agreement.
5
@Pepperman Savage capitalism is the problem for the american workers and consumers...of which there are many as America is our continent's name...not a country!
And negotiating doesn't mean someone must loose, quite the contrary! Everyone must come out a winner or this isn't a negotiation. Hope this doesn't become another nail in the power of the people because it surely isn't for us these deals are negotiated from whichever part of America we hail from
3
All Canada has to do is relax the rules allowing US citizens to immigrate to Canada. 30 million progressives with their fat bank accounts would stream across the border. The brain drain on to US economy would be devasting. Stand firm Justin, don’t cave to the traitor.
98
@hb
Having recently discovered Montreal, I'm already dreaming of moving there. I'm a bona fide liberal progressive with admiration for how Canada approaches many things. About the fat bank account though.......
Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray and Mexico stabbed Canada in the back. Gracias, amigo.
14
We've had enough time with this administration to recognize that bluster and threats go along with a weak position. Who needs a deal by Friday? Not Canada.
67
Apparently, this is Trump's idea of negotiating with a friend, Canada, as he is attempting to make Trudeau look bad. Trump and his pals Ross and Mnuchin are so slimy in the way they work a "deal" it is disgusting. But this is classic Trump and we knew it. How can anyone think that a guy with Trump's limited background, education, and associations could hold the highest and most powerful office in the world? I am so disgusted in the way he treated the passing of John McCain. He has no dignity or class. I'm surprised that Stormy Daniels slept with him! What a guy!
44
Pres. Bozo doesn't even understand what tariffs and trade deficits are! It's clear why he love less educated people -- he's one of them and it's much easier to fool them.
37
Maybe Americans don't know but the high tariff on your dairy exports kicks in only after your NAFTA quota has been met.
You are trying to dump your surplus and unwanted dairy products on Canada.
74
well, Canada is dumping its tar sands on the U.S., your getting the better deal.
2
@mkm, Ahh, no. US refineries buy Canadian oilsands bitumen because they get it at a huge discount because Canada has yet to build a pipeline to tidewater so they can sell at a higher price in other markets. Think before you type, please.
2
Blackmail appears to be SOP for this administration.
12
NAFTA was passed by Congress (more Republicans voted for it than Democrats!!) so sorry Trump can't just negotiate some new deal excluding the Canucks. There are a sea of a legal challenges ahead if he tries it. He has to abrogate NAFTA and start again.
17
Democratic commentators here critical of Trumps push to shore up US manufacturing jobs do so for good reason. If these jobs continue to grow even more blue collar folks will abandon the Democrat party.
Farmers have taken hits from retaliatory tariffs carefully aimed at them by countries affected by the US tariffs on manufactured goods and actions punishing intellectual property theft from US firms... but dont expect farmers to suddenly go democrat either.
5
@Lane
Apparently you don't know more Americans make and build stuff with aluminum and steel than actually make it. Since January steel prices in the US are UP around 40%. Washing machines incidentally are up about 16.5%. This means that Americans including you are going to be paying a lot more for stuff. Congratulations your economics PhD is in the post. LOL
31
And the Trump Administration had to pony up a multi-billion dollar payoff to the farmers because his playing with tariffs was hurting them. Yep, that's taxpayer money he's handing out.
I miss having an intelligent President who thoroughly understands and can discuss policy ....
2
Perhaps it’s time anyway for us Canadians to stop depending on the United States as a stable and dependable ally, on both economic and military terms - which were no doubt favourable to us but still mutual.
That’s a tragedy of the state of American politics. Canada may suffer, but I’m all for a re-orientation at this point.
87
Agreed. Our movement toward free trade with the EU and the Pacific rim countries can't happen soon enough. Captain Bone Spurs has destroyed any sense that the US is a reliable allie or trading partner.
25
@Arnab: Yes. This is the way trump is running the U.S. right now. The lying, untrustworthy dotard drove his company bankrupt six times. There is no history that supports the notion that trump makes successful deals. It's all realty TV fantasy.
Thus, nations now have to form a world order that treats the trump U.S. cautiously. Putin knows how to handle him.
12
@Arnab
Excellent point. A painful but necessary realignment is long overdue.
3
So where is Mexico in all this? Months ago, Trump wanted to deal Mexico out and make a private deal with Canada. Canada insisted that the talks would have to be three way. Is Mexico willing to sacrifice the good will of Canada to appease someone who wants to build the wall and get Mexico to pay for it? Be careful Mexico- if Canada is out of the picture, you lose leverage and you may end up doing Trump's bidding.
30
@Rmark6
You have to remember this is the Nieto administration with a 17% approval rating who will be replaced by Obrador in the next 3 months.
16
Cut through the bluster, deception and arm-twisting threats and you're left with Canada holding most of the cards.
Down here in reality, both Trump and Mexico are the ones in a hurry and needy of a quick deal. Canada not so much. Trump's threats to leave Canada out of NAFTA (he can't) and to sign a separate NAFTA with Mexico (it won't, because if Canada says no thanks, Mexican voters will think their government caved in to Trump's bullying) are just so much noise and posturing, and our government knows it.
So now the tripartite negotiations are resuming, as planned all along, and Canada will continue to negotiate--calmly and in good faith as before.
102
The basics of this are clear: the main US negotiator, Commerce Secretary Ross, is a crook on his way out the door. His main intellectual backing, Robert Lighthizer, is a dogmatist of dogmas from the eighteenth century, before America's time.
They are meeting to implement yesterday's Trump press conference, the empty thundering of an empty barrel.
This is not a swamp, nor a circus. This is professional window dressing put up by the establishment of the Republican Party to distract the press and the rest of us while more competent people go about the heavy labor of stealing the wealth of the nation.
50
@David Lloyd-Jones. Our democratic party has allowed foriegn countries to have their way in trade agreements with the American people. I do not blame you for attacking the republicans. If I was Canadian or Chinese, I would want the democrats doing trade deals for the US too.
5
Until Trump came along it was the Republicans who were the big supporters of NAFTA. Trade with Canada under NAFTA has been reasonably balanced with a US surplus in recent years. There is absolutely nothing unfair for the US about NAFTA.
30
@Pepperman
The overwhelming weight of bilateral American deals and multilateral arrangements spearheaded by the US since WWII have been good for the US. Most of them have been good all around.
I encourage you to consider the posibility that the feeling that all agreements are wins for one and loss for the other is the delusion of a very few sick men, and of the outdated cults whose slogans they mumble.
Gains made by the US as a whole have been appropriated overwhelmingly by a few at the top. Easy trade in cheap household goods is one of the few big moves that has benefited ordinary households, and now Trump is trying to destroy that very large but non-top-0.1% win.
Since grammar forced you to put an S on the end of "Democrats" I assume you made up for that by using the lower-case d. A sort of stand-in for the "democrat party" you would more commonly have used?
1
The US and Canada have a bi-lateral trade agreement called the Canada-US Trade Agreement that was superseded when NAFTA was signed in 1993. Effective January 1994. The purpose of NAFTA was to remove barriers to the exchange of good and services among Canada, Mexico and the US. The original idea began with Ronald Reagan in the late 1970's.
If NAFTA goes away the previous agreement would come back into force. The US would then need to renegotiate the terms of that agreement and Congress would be required to participate in both allowing the new negotiation and also in the acceptance of any renegotiated agreement.
22
Trump rarely tells the truth and if I represented Mexico, I would be very cautious. It's only a better deal for Trump or he would not do it. On the other hand, he could and would back out of any deal he decides is not providing enough accolades. Remember, he has to look good first and foremost. Canada should at least look at what is on the table, but watch this snake of a president closely and be ready for anything.
17
@Paul Raffeld
Right now tRump needs any deal he can get. His reputation as the consummate dealmaker has fallen flat on its face. He hasn't made a successful deal with anyone since he took office.
His base will believe whatever he says about it so the details aren't all that important to him.
And no, he is not a reliable negotiating partner, which is why the real negotiations are taking place elsewhere.
5
@Paul Raffeld
Delay, delay and delay. That should be Mexico and Canada strategy. Trump wants a del before midterms and would sign a dud to get it and call it a winner. Give it to him.
5
" Canada’s foreign minister cut short a trip to Europe and rushed to Washington"
Really! "rushed".
Oh! the drama.
Loaded language – journalism, propaganda or opinion?
28
The Times just can't get this story told objectively from one day to the next.
13
Hmm! Almost looks like a US presidential administration doing a day of typical work. Almost.
1
Canada shouldn't get too exercised about this. On the ohter hand Mexico should. Trump's "announcements" seldom mean what all of the involved parties think they mean (recall N Korea, Taxes reduced-for whom?, Russia, Syria, Afghanistan ….). Trump is your quintessentially sleazy used-car salesman who will say whatever they feel will convince you to be their sucker (apologies to used-car salesmen).
28
I can’t believe the anti-American worker comments here. NAFTA devasted our manufacturing middle class.
9
@Conservative Democrat No, automation and american auto makers, combined with the lack of education and skill among many US automakers in the 90s did that. The US invested little in education and made it ever more expensive to access, thus the population has less skilled labor. That's changing somewhat now, but a high school diploma isn't worth anything in the age of information.
34
@Conservative Democrat
When NAFTA was first approved hundreds of American companies and corporations moved their factories to the US from Canada and left tens of thousands Canadians unemployed. Our "manufacturing middle class" was devastated, too. Caterpillar and Heinz are examples of the processing continuing until this day, e.g., moving their facilities to the US from Canada.
15
@Conservative Democrat You are darned right. It didn't take long, either. NAFTA wasn't so great for the small Mexican farmer, either. It seems like the dislike for Trump is so great, the forest is lost in the trees.
3
Trump continues to think that a trade deficit is the same as losing money. This is as idiotic as thinking that because we all have a "trade deficit" with grocery stores (we buy food from them, they buy nothing from us) we are losing money to grocery stores.
14
@DBman
I am losing less and less money to the grocery store these days.
3
Maybe Canada should do a Nafta with Mexico and leave the United States out of their deal.
12
@Gazbo Fernandez After the US left the TPP it was renamed the CPTPP with the same terms minus 22 terms for which the US had been the only sponsor. Mexico and Canada are still in this. If the US had stayed in it would have superseded NAFTA.
11
Neither Trump nor anyone in his administration has thought through the ramifications of a trade war and the ensuing tariffs. If trade experts and smart economists were consulted, instead of quacks like Larry Kudlow, Peter Navarro, Wilbur Ross, or Steve Mnuchin, and if President Trump showed the slightest ability to assimilate new information (he has not shown this ability), an intelligent update to NAFTA could be negotiated.
I know, wishful thinking.
7
@DBman It's called instant gratification, **** the future (for everyone else). The stock markets shot up overnight! Millions, billions can be made in a day by 0.01%, that is what they are banking on with this quackery.
7
Trump continues to lie, the States enjoys a surplus in the dairy market. Canadians don't want to buy American dairy because of the extreme hormones and the GMo's. The system in Canada ensures that our dairy producers do no over produce as do the Americans. On matters of health and taste American milk and cheese is a no go, Canadians prefer their domestic product.
263
@Tom To be fair, that's primarily because, due to supply management, little that is not Canadian gets in, so the choices Canadians have are mostly from local farmers.
1
@Tom
Not so. There is a 270 percent tariff on U.S. dairy products. Canada allows a certain amount of U.S. dairy to be sold before the tariffs kick in. Then the tariffs range from 201 percent to 333 percent, depending on what is sold. But the International Dairy Foods Association says the tariffs in Canada toward U.S. dairy products is so punitive -- his word -- they just look for markets elsewhere. Mexico does not impose a tariff on U.S. dairy.
3
Americans make fine milk and cheese too!
The thing is Americans subsidize farmers whereas Canadians grant quotas to producers. The farmers in both countries obtain help.
What the countries should do is harmonize this assistance and then have the farmers compete.
I am sure trade negotiators can figure this out. What is needed is Intelligent leadership on both sides.
I just hope and pray that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland do NOT let Trump bully them around, threaten them or let Trump take advantage of Canada. Prime Minister Trudeau and Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland need to stand up to Trump, the bully and "wanna be dictator and king". As my family and friends like to say in Canada "who needs an enemy if you have a friend like Trump.
Trump does not seems to realize that if he threatens Canada the US looses a trusted and very valuable friend.
263
@GECAUS it will be of great comfort for Prime Minister Trudeau to stand up to President Trump. It will be an empty gesture which will be paid with Canadian people's labors and life standards though.
Fidel Castro from Cuba and Chavez from Venezuela took great comfort in keeping their honor of standing up against the "American Empire" while their populations suffered.
The truth is NAFTA punished the U.S. with high tariffs while other countries enjoyed access to the American market. It was an unfair trade agreement which needed to be revised to achieve a modicum of parity.
So glad that it is Chrystia Freeland meeting with Lighthizer. She's no fool and represents Canada so well. Chrystia's not easily intimidated and calls out nonsense when she sees it. You make us proud, Chrystia.
11
@GECAUS In that photo of Chrystia Freeland, she does not look like she will let Trump bully her. I betting she'll hold her ground -- at least what's most important to Canada.
3
Canada will remember this treatment from our erstwhile friend and ally.
22
I guess in these pages our POTUS gets no respect.
He campaigned against NAFTA and whether one believes him or not - fact of the matter the Mexican government - hardly his friend - agreed to sign on the dotted line - to me, it says a lot. If Mexicans really did not want it - they could have walked away - just reading tea lives of our politics today - and with an election a couple of months away.
Now, as to Canada - whatever may one think of treatment of this POTUS towards them and particularly it's handsome PM, fact of the matter is over Saudi standoff - Canadians realized they have zero friends - not even their master, so called Great - Britain stood by them.
So, while they owe us nothing and neither do we - it's in their interest to get on board quick. For lessons - they need to look to their master, not so great anymore Britain again - for it's messy Brexit.
Talk is cheap but when negotiations are required - it makes no sense to fall on false modesty or outright arrogance. Regardless of what is said - what I have read is almost 90% of Canadians live within 100 mile's of our border.
And there is a reason. We are the world's biggest market and lucrative at that.
5
Talk to me when all this gets ratified by Congress. Until then it’s just Trump talking smack.
2
@Neil Wow Neil - spoken like a true American, and Texan! You touch every hot-button that drives the civilized word crazy concerning (some) American attitudes. However, you are right about about being the world's biggest and most lucrative market, for the moment. But your national debt levels would indicate that you are spending other people's money, not your own. And Nafta is not the source of your hollowed-out middle class. It has more to do with a post-industrial society, poor levels of education, over-population, diminishing natural resources and the right of other societies to enjoy the same standard of living you have - by dint of hard work and innovation. You do not have a hammer-lock on those attributes. The reason, by the way that most Canadians live within 100 miles of your border has more to do with historic settlement patterns around a shared transportation route and natural resource - The Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence River. Read up on your history!
37
The POTUS has earned no respect, Canada has the TPP to fall back on, and the next Mexican president will almost certainly throw sand in the gears
13
So, the already horrendously expensive car prices will rise and car manufacturers will probably build more cars outside the country in order to compete with cheaper Imports.
Thank you Mr Trump.
This is why every major media outlet in the country, except for one, and including many conservative newspapers, did not endorse Mr Trump.
12
Why are people surprised that Canada is talking to us about NAFTA? In any negotiation it costs you nothing to talk to the other side and see what they are offering. Canada is doing exactly that and it makes total sense. It is refreshing to see an America president with decades of negotiating experience getting better trade deals for America. The last (4) presidents were not good at it and either negotiated bad deals for America or just kicked the can down the road and let the bad deal stand.
5
@P McGrath - He was supreme in dealing with Russia... will be interesting to fully understand that deal, eh McGrath
6
@P McGrath
Again, whatever it is 'your Donald' is doing can be called by many names, but 'negotiating' is not one of them.
2
What I find particularly odd about the Trump administration's position is that it seems significant portions of NAFTA are congressional law, and therefore would remain in effect regardless of the decisions made by the executive. Therefore the portions that are not cancelled by the executive would allow non-NAFTA countries to claim that the US is providing unfair advantages and press the WTO to allow them to have similar access to the US economy.
So by playing tough with your neighbours, you end up potentially offering a gift to a host of countries you don't have any free trade agreements with.
That leaves aside the significant potential for Canada to take unilateral actions of its own from cancelling the F35 order, pulling back from NORAD, implementing arbitrary tariffs on agricultural goods, and a host of other measures that would have real impacts on American workers and American security.
Chest thumping aside, returning to the policies that exacerbated the Great Depression is a curious way to honour the legacy of the rallying cry, "America first."
28
@Scott
Also, Canada can attack American pharmaceutical patents (which only have the protections they do because of NAFTA and which, if Canada does so, will be replicated by Europe and Asia, costing the US an industry worth over a trillion dollars a year), can deny access to fresh water, and sever hydro to all northern states (driving up energy costs through the stratosphere). Plus, of course, Canada could start backing a basket of currencies model, booting the US dollar as the world's reserve currency (seriously threatening America's government debts), and could start looking for other military allies (given Trump's attacks on the security side), which means China and Russia could gain access to ports right next door to the US.
13
Don't worry Canadians, the "deal" with Mexico leaves over 95% of Nafta in place. The tweak, for about 5%, in fact benefits Mexico. So go to Washington, nod your heads, compliment the host for his golfing, and then carry on with business as usual.
19
Yeah, but I am sure that there will be a catch.
Isn't it amazing how Donald Trump can compress the complexities of global trade into the space of a tweet? Next up, compressing the Constitution into 3 tweets that all end with the same caveat, "When in doubt, leave it to me."
8
When Trump took office, taking services into account, we actually had a slight trade surplus with Canada. Trump never read the NAFTA agreement and has no idea what it says. He chose to blow everything up in the name of juvenile posturing.
15
@Jasr A trade surplus on what terms?
1
Overall trade. Trump just focuses on goods, we are a net exporter of services and do have a trade surplus with Canada.
9
Trump can't do this alone; he needs congressional approval. Stop saying he's negotiated a new NAFTA. He could negotiate his way out of a paper bag.
13
To all those Americans making min wage, or slightly higher, how do you feel about your President successfully winning a major wage increase for Mexican workers?
18
Wilbur Ross to our long time adversary, Canada, "We will bury you"
5
Wilbur Ross is an old bumbling fools.
9
Why's it so hard to make a trade deal then with all three parties again?
3
NAFTA=
Not Another Fake Trump Accomplishment
Now Ask For Trudeau's Acceptance
You can't do a deal without Canada no matter what the President and his Secretary's say. Just ask Congress they will tell you.
12
To our Canadian neighbors and firends that share language, legal, systems and more, don't faill into a trap with this fool. We both need each other and should act accordingly. I admire you patience while Trump tears up the whole planet so he can puff himself up.
18
You have to give the Mexicans credit. They kept their cool while Trump baited them with racial slurs and got everything they wanted. They haven't paid for the wall either.
Worst trade deal in US history may not be so great for the Canadians. Hopefully they will do more for the US auto worker than Trump did.
50
I could not agree with you more!!!
1
So far, this is mere headline manipulation, but if I look beneath that veneer, I see our President looking a bit desperate to cover up the obvious damage he has done to the US economy over his trade policy. Soybeans closed today at $8.51, still down 20% from where they were before he shut down our markets and stripped the livelihood from farmers across the midwest. I'm out of patience.
57
This makes no sense. Canada is America's single largest export market, and is not a low-wage threat. The US enjoys an overall trade surplus with Canada on goods and services. It even has a surplus in dairy, which Trump likes to bang on about, but which is a minuscule part of our trade in any case. (Strangely he never mentions softwood lumber, on which the US continues to impose duties despite losing legal ruling after legal ruling.)
The sunset clause in particular is unacceptable - a trade deal with an expiry date is not a trade deal. Sixteen years may sound like a long time, but 8 years into it, what industries will make major investments in Canada?
What's driving Trump's position with Canada is his need to 'win', even if he inflicts senseless damage on the highly integrated American and Canadian economies in the process. I hope Canada keeps its nerve, and US state politicians and industry leaders let the Trump administration know that this makes no sense. Tearing up NAFTA without a Canadian deal would be extremely painful for Canada, but the US would be blowing up significant parts of its own economy as well. And for what?
137
@rowbat
I totally agree! I expect our Canadian representatives to show the poise and class they have shown to date and say “NO” to a bad deal.
4
Canada's self-righteousness is misguided. We can learn from Mexico. Humility pays.
The Empire may be long gone, arrogance lingers. We still want to push opium on China. We lost UNSC seat to Portugal, of all places. PM's India trip was a disaster. Saudis have given us a kick in our behind last month. Who else is left? Botswana?
Our southern neighbours are emotional folks - good at heart, but easily offended. And as their No 1 place is under threat they are extra sensitive. No time for our grand-standing.
We have much less to lose than Mexico. American arm-twisting them in fact benefits Canada as well. We gain without paying political price.
A tripartite agreement did not make sense any way as the 3 parties are not at equal footing. With US sitting in the middle blocking our way to Mexico, NAFTA made no sense at all. We do little business with Mexico that involves products sold to US.
If Trump can strike a deal with Mexico, a Canada-US deal should be a piece of cake. Our trade gap is small, and issues like dairy products are minor.
Because of better negotiating skills Canada has traditionally outsmarted the Yankees. But this has been a short term gain for a long term pain. A just deal benefits both parties. A new deal may hurt Canada in the short run, but will be good for distant future.
To get a speedy deal we need a new negotiating team. Canadian Media reports that the present team led by Freeland is considered too arrogant by the US counterpart Lighthizer.
6
@Syed Abbas
"Canadian Media reports that the present team led by Freeland is considered too arrogant by the US counterpart Lighthizer."
The media I've read is that Freeland is consider too female by the US counterpart.
26
@Syed Abbas
Because Minister Freeland actually has a brain.
20
@Occam's razor
Whatever. Any person with a little bit of wisdom would offer the US a new negotiator.
You want Freeland, or you want a deal?
A trade treaty leveraged by a business man rather than a career diplomat, who would of thought. Just recall Ross Perot admonishing the US government over the NAFTA trade agreement because it was going to result in the loss of jobs, loss of manufacturing and an increase in our trade deficit. He was right and it took another businessman to set it right. Our trade agreements should be about preserving our jobs, preserving our manufacturing and insuring that the agreement is balanced and fair. It shouldn't be about getting lousy and cheap products from other countries so Walmart can make a profit.
5
@Mike how is that?? For a stsrt.. the US has trade surplus with Canada... as I recall when NAFTA was first negotiated, it was the other way around. Calls inot question all your assertions
6
@Mike I wonder what tune you'll sing when car prices rise even higher, and car manufacturers ship their plants overseas.
Your elitism aside, Walmart provides great deals for low-income consumers who would have a lot less money in their pockets if not for Walmart. That of course goes for Costco as well.
1
Canada is not a low-wage country, so why is Trump cozying up to the Mexicans, but giving the cold shoulder to Canada?
3
I see the workers in Mexico may be getting higher wages but the US and Canada already pay better wages. I don't know if Mexico is considered North America but Ford, GM, and Chrysler assembling autos in North America already have a higher content. Mexico doesn't have all the safety regulations and benefits like health care so it still has a huge cost advantage. It's the parts of the deal that nobody is talking about that could be concerning. Our foreign auto assembly operations here in the US may be the most harmed but even our own big three companies aren't praising this new deal. The most beneficial part of NAFTA was moving products between these three countries unimpeded but now that's in jeopardy if Canada isn't included. I wonder how those Republicans in those southern states that are producing all those foreign autos will spin this to the folks back home. Those foreign companies aren't going to be none too happy.
10
Yes Mexico is on the North American continent.
7
That´s what - without EU - would have happened to every single European country. Watch closely, Britain. American friendship in times of Trump.
12
Both the USA should make the best trade deal possible for their respective countries. Trade is exciting and no one needs any favours, just good trade. This means that both parties have exchanged knowing that each benefits.
Dan
3
What is really not mentioned is that the deal with Mexico is a framework for an agreement and the same is true for Canada. There is not much detail here. For Trump to want this done in a week is simply praying for unicorns to appear. The details will take time to work out. Trump has never pulled out of NAFTA yet, so anything can happen. A little early to be claiming any victories here.
12
This a great idea, make it impossible to hire workers in Mexico because the wage requirement is too high, depress the Mexican economy and watch the tide north once again increase. Great work wall builder!
18
Ignorance of other countries and our issues with them is nothing new. Just ask people to locate Canada on a map, explain their form of government, and what language they speak. I've done this myself and was amazed at the level of ignorance...and this includes our own country as well. Ask them to name the three branches of government, as but one example.
17
I am no economist so perhaps those more learned than I can confirm the following,
If the average hourly rate to build cars is to go up, quite appreciably, then barring enormous savings in other areas, those costs will be added to the price of a car, for Americans and Canadians. If so, how is this a good thing for all the middle class folks who will be purchasing new cars?
To quote Walter (friend of the Dude), "Am I wrong?"
3
@john So you are against the minimum wage then? I agree that minimum wages raise prices artificially but I thought most people were for minimum wage despite that obvious economic outcome.
1
@Gene I am absolutely in favour of a minimum,, liveable wage. I am simply questioning the economic logic here. If Mexican manufacturers are forced to pay more to their workers to sell cars to Americans, wont those cars cost more? And how is that a win?
1
@john I agree they will cost more. But so does everything when you apply a minimum wage. So if you are in favor of a minimum wage, then I assume you are okay with all products costing more as you are willing to pay a little more so the worker has a better wage. So if you consider that a good thing, I don't understand why you don't consider this provision a good thing. Do you just disagree with Trump on where the minimum wage should be set?
I'm generally in favor of a more free market economy so I don't personally love it. But I question the sincerity of people that are in favor of minimum wages but against provisions that might increase wages for mexican or american workers. It makes me think the objection is more of an irrational conclusion based on a general hatred of Trump.
Read the outline of the Mexico trade deal, what's the big deal. What I want to know is where is their check for the wall? Can we also have a wall with Canada and have them pay for it?
4
@Steve
No need for a wall, Steve. Many Canadians have stopped traveling to the US, aka Trumpland.
It's much safer and nicer at home, than being in a land of rabble-rousing, gun-toting , uncivil people going at each other ("many sides'), and against countries that were friends.
13
@Kelly
You might have stopped traveling now, Kelly, but I always like to remind Canadians via an article like this, that the people that overstay their visas the most when visiting the US are - - CANADIANS.
900K and counting.
I hope y'all will return the favor by looking the other way when we start flooding your borders.
1
Trump can't stand that Trudeau is young, handsome and kind. It really is that simple. It's more about how he looks next to Trudeau.
88
@Chris He also can't stand the fact that Trudeau has a brain and actually knows things!
10
@Chris
Indeed.
Trudeau is a white Obama.
4
Recently I have had the opportunity to drive a wide range of cars. If the "Big Three" in Detroit had kept up and made better cars over the past 50 years the auto industry jobs and American car sales would still be her., It is management not labor that lost the jobs and market share. And before we hear the cry, "It was the unions". from our Republican friends (I still have some) let us be serious. Anyone who, like myself, has been lucky enough to work at most levels of the work force from less than minimum wage to near the 1% knows that truth. We need real change and soon.
16
Canada blinked; go Trump
7
I'll bet you Freeland walks into talks wearing a bullet proof vest. Why on earth would we shun the Canadians for a second? Negotiate, please! These are our freinds.
10
And another thing, New York Times. Nafta did not cause American auto makers to set up plants in Canada. There have always been auto plants in Canada, some starting with Canadian marques. The Auto Pact of the 1960s stipulated that production in each country should correspond to consumption in each country. The union was bi-national and worker compensation was comparable in each country. Foreign auto production upset the apple cart and Nafta attempted to address the changing environment. Why a low-wage country like Mexico was included confuses me. Maybe the auto companies saw money to be made. Then again, it also confuses me why we agreed to the original FTA (Canada and the US only) that gutted our manufacturing industries by allowing well-paid Canadian manufacturing jobs to flow to low wage jurisdictions such as North Carolina.
37
@Alan Thank you for pointing that out. The big 2 and Fiat/Chrysler have long manufactured autos, vans, trucks, etc. in Canada, esp. in Ottawa. Trump's tariffs on steel, aluminum and naming you as a national security risk will not only diminish production in Canada and hurt the automakers and consumers, it will also result in lower wages as these are union jobs. And that hurts the middle class in both countries.
5
@Patrick True but not in Ottawa so far as I know. Windsor, Oshawa and Oakville were (and are) the major centers of Big 3 (2?) auto assembly in Canada. More recently added is a Toyota plant in Ontario (much as Alabama has a big Hyundai plant). That doesn't count all the parts manufacturers that exist on both sides of the border.
@Patrick I think you mean "Oshawa". We only produce hot air in Ottawa (LOL).
Don't worry, no matter what the deal is, whether it hurts people or not, whatever the impact, Republicans will cluck and settle in like chickens. Perhaps some ruffled feathers, but they are too scared of that foxy Trump trotting around the henhouse to do much more than cluck, cluck, cluck.
13
Everything Trump is trying to do here is illegal. He does not have the authority from Congress to tear up NAFTA; NAFTA itself has provisions that require Canada's participation. NAFTA will remain in place until it is formally renegotiated. The Canadian government has to hold firm and be prepared to take the US administration to court to both protect the process around NAFTA and Canada's rights. The provisions limiting Trump's actions are written into American law; he is violating his own country's laws through his actions. Of course, Trump is an idiot and probably doesn't understand this. He, apparently, still doesn't understand how tariffs work. But the courts and Congress should have a better handle on reality.
11
If Mr. Trump thinks that he can bully Canada he is in for a big surprise. We may be polite, but we aren’t stupid. Our leaders will not accept a deal that is not mutually beneficial to both countries.
Besides, any deal will be for the short term, as the present U.S. administration has only two years left and we can sit and wait it out. Once Mueller lays his cards on the table Mr. Trump will be trading his suit and tie for an orange jumpsuit.
I am sure that the next administration will renew the great friendship that our country has had with our large southern neighbor for the past 150 years. We realize that real Americans respect us as much as we respect them. No disrespectful bully can come between us in the long run.
34
I can't imagine why adults think they will accomplish anything by talking to Trump. Chrystia Freeland is so much smarter than Trump that she seems likely to really threaten him.
37
@Sequel Anyone who doesn't kowtow and grovel obsequiously to him threatens him...
2
Trade is just another of the many masks the tenant of the WH hides behind (with Congress enabling him and cheering him on) to launch his petty, ignorant, rants. It's always personal with Trump - what has he taken offense to this time? And the same old unanswered question, why do Congress cede their authority to him again, and again and again. What is their payback?
Re: "The biggest changes to the trade agreement between the United States and Mexico ...produce at least produce at least 75 percent of an automobile’s value in North America"
Confusing. North America = Mexico, Canada and the USA.
2
First he decided to take us out of the Paris climate accord. Then he had the US reneg on the Iran nuclear agreement. Now he isripping up NAFTA. While none of those agreements were perfect, they were all negotiated, by thoughtful people over several months or years and were no doubt signed in good faith by everyone involved. Now Trump, on a whim, just rips up anything he wishes and our country's prior words and agreements mean nothing at all. Why after this would any country sign any agreement with the US, since it would prove to be meaningless? We are increasingly becoming a rogue nation.
64
You are already there.
4
@Miriam Rogue is a good word for Trump. I would say "utter rogue!"
1
This all sounds like shysterism. “Act fast because congressional approval takes a long time” is just sales tactics. Hopefully sober Canada realizes this is a scam and they have real leverage here, and says no to another hasty, ill-conceived scheme of this amoral politician and his amoral party.
13
The Canadian Government also knows that Congress makes the real decisions on Trade Agreements.
6
What we have with Mexico is an agreement to rewrite the NAFTA agreement. Nothing more. There's still plenty of work to do despite trump's claim about the size of the agreement that hasn't been written or agreed upon yet.
But that never stops the trump zanies from thinking it's all a done deal so they can cheer their half-baked hero.
13
This behavior toward Canada, our closest ally and friend is utterly despicable. This administration and all who support it blindly should be ashamed of themselves (but, of course they won't be)!
115
Trump has the right general idea, but, as in most of what Presidents do, his knowledge and execution are horrible. The trade issue is exqusitely simple: if we are to trade with others, there must be a level playing field.
Five criteria generate a Level Playing Field:
--Wages and Benefits
--Environmental Protection
--Worker Protection
--No free or subsidized capital given to producers
--No Distorted Exchange Rates
When these five criteria are roughly equal between two trading partners, then mutually advantageous trade can result. Otherwise, NOT!
Canada and America share a relatively equal playing field. Mexico and America have a ridiculously unlevel playing field. The tiny adjustments that Trump and his equally unknowledgeable minnions have made to NAFTA are absurd. They do nothing whatsoever to level the playing field between the two countries. Once again, Trump plays the clown.
8
@red sox 9 Umm, Red Sox (by the way, I am a Cardinal): There is a perfectly good international organization to address these matters, called the WTO. Do you think Trump should try to unilaterally take the U.S. out of the WTO?
1
Justin Trudeau = intelligence, decency, class.
Donald Trump = ignorance, vulgarity, no class.
36
More chaos and confusion just to get Trump’s name above the fold of the newspaper.
10
Canada will fall in line they have very little choice in the matter.
They have no idea how to deal with a president like this and are completely flat footed.....kind of entertaining to be honest.
3
Laugh all you want, but Trump doesn't have the final say in this matter. A Trade Agreement can only be cancelled by Congress.
13
@There
Wrong. What Trump can do is add tariffs to auto or other goods with final production in Canada. That will damage the Canadian economy.
Leaving out why the deal won't be approved by the US Congress in time, Trudeau faces an election next year. Trump is hated in Canada. Dairy supply management may be bad for Canada and Canada has made some treaty moves to let in more dairy from the EU with zero tariffs, but all Canadian political parties say they support dairy supply management.
There are parts of the deal with Mexico that Canada likes --16 year term with possible extension of 6 years every 6 years and parts Canada hates. They extend some drug patents and force US IP rules on Canada. Drug patents have been a big deal in Canada and is controversial as Name Brank makers are largely in Quebec, but there is a big generic maker sector.
In the US, Congress and the President must make the deal. Canada is sort of a dictatorship when the governing party has a majority of seats as MP's can't be independent as they are in the US and any deal must be one Justin Trudeau approves.
What protects Canada from really going off the rails is that norms matter. Eventually the other guy will get into power.
4
@Luc hopefully congress will approve because it’s a good deal for US and doesn’t throw Canada under the bus
So I don't get this: NAFTA was criticized by most labor unions, and with darn good reason: look at the flood of jobs out of this country and to Mexico. So given this impact, why is the New York Times seem ready to cuddle up to NAFTA? I remember when NAFTA was approved. There was a lot of resistance, controversy and, frankly, 25 years isn't all that long. Did anyone know that soooooooooooo many jobs would be going out the door when it was passed? I doubt NAFTA would have made it. I didn't vote for Trump but I do see that no matter what he does he gets grief. He said he was going to be a tough cookie bargaining for the U.S., and he's doing just that. Oh so Canada isn't happy? Well, isn't Trump saying put up or shut up? Just like he said he would.
4
Trump was saying for two years that Canada wasn't the problem, it was Mexico. So why did he cut a deal with Mexico and not Canada? We are not a low-wage country.
10
@GMT, actually if you check the tape of Trudeau's visit to Washington, 45 stated very clearly that he wanted to "tweak" NAFTA, not rip it up. Then suddenly, he wants to rip up the entire document. Nothing he says can believed and therefore no contract that he negotiates can be assumed to be offered in good faith.
22
@Luc I think Trump cut the deal because reps from both countries hashed out a deal. To be sure, Trump ought to make a better overture to Canada, just state what his concerns are to iron out a better deal. Trump made no bones about his view that NAFTA was a bad deal. But if the three countries are going to trade, and it makes sense for all three to do so, they need to get together. I didn't vote for Trump but I hear him when he complains that too many US. leaders have caved in, because that is true, they have.
Unless the US Congress decides to rip up the fast track authority law there can't be a deal before the new Mexican President takes office.That president will reject this deal.
I don't know why the Times isn't make more of a big deal about US law.
This is all separate from the issue of whether or not Congress would pass this deal. I think Democrats might have less problems than Republicans on the auto part of the deal.
Congress has to pass trade law on anything beyond tariffs. Since that's near impossible if Congress gets to write the law, Congress has decided to limit what it can do.
This is the fast track authority. IF the Administration follows the rules, then Congress can only say yes or no to the deal and can't change it.
The Administration has to send a letter to Congress saying what it wants to do. Then it has wait 90 days before it can start negotiating and there is another 90 days before the final deal can be sent to Congress.
The only letter is one that calls for the modernization of NAFTA between Canada, the US and Mexico. That is Trumps authorization. There is no authorization for a Bi-lateral deal between Mexico and the US.
There were months and months when Trump could have sent another letter to Congress. But he never did.
If he tries to go ahead, I believe any member of Congress could sue.
By the US bullying Mexico, Canada may benefit.
17
Aside from Trump's questionable negotiation skills, I would not be surprised if Putin's influence in trying to break Western alliances is at play here. Chrystia Freeland is strongly disliked by Putin and banned from travel in Russia because of her criticism of him in her writings as a journalist. Nobody knows what Trump and Putin discussed in Helsinki nor the depth of influence he has over Trump.
80
So far in the telling, the administration has had
the floor completely by itself to tell its side of
the "deal". There has not yet been an
independent analysis of what's in the language,
and I wonder how possible it is to discover this. Of
course, secrecy is also part of the process, but
after a "deal" is announced, secrecy must give
way to transparency in what has been agreed to.
We desperately need a series of articles that explain
all the significant features of what is in this "deal".
At present, we are stuck in the advertising/propaganda stage where a few aspects that sound on the surface as attractive
to certain parts of trump's voter pool
are highlighted over and over on the usual propaganda
chains.
We clearly need a lot more independent information.
7
In response to "the US is finally standing up for itself" comments. If the US has signed on to agreements that seem to let others take advantage of us, you can be sure that it is not because we got snickered but because the agreements are actually very good for major US corporations. Second, in negotiations, I've heard that those in the strongest positions talk the least. The loudmouths are trying to cover their weakness with bluff.
41
Seems very likely that when all is said and done, we will have a deal that is more favorable to the US than the last one. Watch and learn.
7
@Bill
Your country has the worst labour laws in the west and has been kicking working class people in the guts for decades. Wage inequality is as high as its ever been and millions of your citizens don't show up in unemployment stats 'cause they have long ago thrown in the towel. Therefore, "more favourable" for whom?
14
@Bill
With friends like the US who needs enemies? American treatment of Canada on NAFTA negotiations has been appalling. Trump likes to say "we have been treated very unfairly" in trade deals Ha! The US and Mexico lied to Canada about what was happening and then put a knife to its throat giving just 4 days to agree to terms it had no part in setting. This is unbelievably bad faith. Trump supporters may say it is smart dealing but it is nasty and underhanded and no way to treat strong allies. Relationships matter. Trump was famous for ripping off contractors and that is how diplomacy works in Trumpworld. The US has become an untrustworthy bad actor on the international stage.
8
America first and real free trade are completely compatible.
Mexico and soon Canada know a good deal and after whining awhile will come around to a fair trade deal.
The irony is that after American workers the next biggest winners will be Mexican and Canadian consumers who will have access to competitive American goods and services.
To my liberal friends, Trump policies win ....again.
8
@obummer
Nice touch with the "again" OB. It seems that the left hates whoever loves America. Jobs are good no matter what party you belong to, Very good comment.
1
Chrystia Freeland entered politics in 2014 after publishing Plutocrats: The Rise of the New Global Super Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else. I cannot think of anyone I would rather have representing our middle class democracy than Chrystia Freeland. The thing that is absolutely certain is that the current US administration and I mean executive, legislative and judicial has declared war on the middle class.
Minister Freeland wrote Sale of the Century on the rise of the Russian oligarchy in 2000 and was banned from travel in Russia by Putin. She is a brilliant public speaker, a devout Christian and possesses the knowledge of an excellent economic journalist. To those that believe there is no such thing as an honest politician . Minister Freeland is what the world needs now.
215
Thank you. I will purchase her books.
2
@Jack P
Chrystia Freeland is not an ideologue if anything she is a believer in free markets and globalism. She is a believer in liberal democracy and a level playing field. Her books are very heavy on data and how people like Putin have dramatically tilted the playing field. She is fluent in English, Russian, Ukranian and I have little doubt her French is quite acceptable. I have little doubt that Angele Merkel is the leader of the our Western Democracies but I think that Chrystia Freeland may be the giant the world is waiting for. The world is dying for people whose truth and integrity is beyond reproach. It is Chrystia's friends and former colleagues who Saudi Arabia is torturing and threatening with death. Her rebuke of the Saudis is what the world needs more of.
1
@Memphrie et Moi
I hope she will use all the attention she will gets the next few days to promote her complaints and solutions to the killing of the middle class by plutocrat sock-puppets. Lots of media interviews where she should be telling everybody what it is that Canada want in order for US to make good on its surplus of trade in goods and services.
3
Let's see on how they discuss the diary industry, a vital industry in Upstate NY
April 18, 2017
President Donald J. Trump
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
We are writing to urge you to address Canada’s protectionist dairy trade policies so that they
honor their international commitments under NAFTA and
other trade agreements. In a blatant violation of international trade agreements it is party to, Canada unilaterally shut down a thriving market for U.S. ultra-filtered milk.
(remainder of letter, outlining damage to NYS agriculture see link below)
Sincerely,
Scott Walker
Andrew M. Cuomo
Governor of Wisconsin
Governor of New York
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/auburnpub.com/content/tncms...
@Woof
The CPTPP keeps terms that increase imports of chicken, egg and diary into Canada. These terms were originally added at urging from the US, but even after the US pulled out of the deal these provisions stayed.
Too bad the US pulled out... The increased access to Canada's chicken, egg and dairy markets will be supplied by the remaining partners.
9
Maybe you should first ask NYS dairy farmers whether they prefer all the government subsidies they receive from US sources - or else a supply management system that has worked successfully in Canada for decades.
Is it just possible that the Canadian approach is better?!!
(And then we can discuss health care, gun control, the welcoming of immigrants and refugees into a truly muliticultural society ... etc.)
Here is our PM ... enjoy the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl5Xb5XoGTU
9
Dear governors Cuomo and Walker,
Before we increase your existing surplus in dairy trade with Canada and throw our doors wide open to your heavily subsidized and hormone-filled dairy exports may I suggest that you address those two issues. I'm sure you'll understand that it's a matter of Canada's national security that we protect our ability to feed ourselves especially in the face of flaky and unreliable trade partners.
Sincerely,
Canada
9
Unlike the Iran nuclear agreement, NAFTA is a treaty and can't be changed without Senate approval. Also, it should be understood that a deal without Canada can't be fast tracked, but will require 60 votes to be ratified. Therefore, Canada should understand that there will be no new Treaty without them, because those 60 votes will not be there.
55
@PeterLaw NAFTA is not a Treaty. It is a commercial accord. Under the Constitution Commerce Clause, congress has theright and obligation to sign off on any such agreement
2
Not understanding all the points of this agreement, I do wonder where in Mexico are the companies that can afford $16/hr when the current average wage there is about $4. Furthermore, Congress must have 90 days to pass any trade agreement which I think must be sent to Congress within the next 4 days. As in all else Republican, push without thinking.
12
What I got from the $16 an hour stipulation is that it was intended to push automakers into keeping or returning their manufacturing to the U.S. Maybe my take is wrong. But I hope it will at least keep them from leaving.
Everything trump does he says is the largest ever which plays right into his base's love of him. So far he has not accomplished anything with the best deal with North Korea, G7, NATO, & China. He should have to reveal all these negotiations & what he has given up to get these deals. We do not know if we have won anything or not. No one is sleeping well after North Korea. He is the biggest con man in the country right now. What is he asking Canada to give up to make him happy? Will Canada hurt its own people to please trump? I hope not.
47
@Nostradamus Said So
trump takes credit for all manner of events that haven't happened yet and probably never will. That's why his "poorly educated" supporters will be so confused by talk of denuclearizing North Korea 50 years from now.
7
blind to the hatred. it was well published in all the leftist news media, including the grey lady, that all trump gave up in his NK deal was the cancellation of some planned military exercises. the big O iran nuclear deal gave iran nuclear weapons capability in 10 years. how could that ever be considered a good deal for us? the last really effective foreign policy president? ronnie reagan. and while you call trump a "con man", let's not forget it was ronnie's complete bluff on SDI, the "star wars" defense system that did not exist at all, to get Gorbachev to tear down the wall. Maybe what it really takes to get things done is to be an actor/con man.
Hey Trump! How about $16/hour for all American workers?
116
Burger flippers in McDonald's should make $16.00 per hour? Those jobs were meant for kids in school to make a few dollars, but NOT $16.00 per hour
1
Including those at all his golf courses....
6
Maybe they were once meant for young people, but today’s reality is far different. I’m all for a reduced minimum wage for kids under 18, but $7.25/hour is disgraceful for such a wealthy nation. Raise the minimum wage to $15-16/hour and give the kids a reduced wage from that base.
4
DAFTA...Donald's Amazing Free Trade Agreement.
We have had a once a month NAFTA party in Merida
Yucatan.
Time for a change...DAFTA has a nice ring, and
we can invite Mr Donald for the change of name
ceremony.
Please, no comments about Daffy Duck.
ancient Canadian
11
I wonder if under this new trade deal Mexico will pay for the Wall?
9
Trump is the best thing that has happened to Canada since William Seward. Seward’s imperial ambitions were one reason why the separate provinces of British North America united to form Canada and to build one nation from sea to sea. We did this in part by building a true miracle, the Canadian Pacific Railway which which ran only through Canadian territory. And it worked.
Sadly, as Canadagained its full sovereignty from Britain, it sold out its sovereignty to the United States. The United States treated us well because we had made ourselves into a dependency of the United States. The upshot was that Canadian industry was integrated into the American economy.
It may surprise Americans (and sadly Canadians) to know that in the 1988 federal elections, more or less a referendum on a free trade agreement between Canada and the US, the majority of Canadians voted against the agreement for fear of further loss of sovereignty.
Trump has made it clear that making ourselves a semi-sovereign dependency of the US was a bad idea. If Trump persuades us to reassert our sovereign independence then once again the national dream will be on track.
23
@Allan Do it, many very happy boyhood summers in your great country, be free of the US. Your country has the material wealth, government, infrastructure and HEW policies to thrive without us. You will better off as it will take us a long time to get back.
2
@Allan 21st Century Technology, (3D Printing) will make preexisting manufacturing supply chains. obsolete.
Climate change could well make the Canadian prairies once again the breadbasket of the world.
2
I suppose we'll manage. Do your president and his buddies and their base not understand that American "tarriffs" are taxes on American consumers? I thought they were opposed to increased (or new) taxes. It's all so confusing. To help clarify everything I have a modest suggestion: Stop using the word "tariff" and use the word "tax." As in "Trump's new taxes on American consumers..."
28
Hang on a minute! how can the president pull out of a deal verified by the congress? There is a body of legislation attached to this deal, they cannot be nullified at the president's whim.
18
"President Trump’s top trade advisers reiterated that the United States is prepared to leave Canada out of a revised North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexico."
That is a total hogwash. NAFTA came to existence primarily because of the needs of the US auto industry. By leaving Canada out, the auto industry in all three countries will be crippled.
Unlike Trump administration negotiators who have (or pretend to have) little understanding of complex inter-dependence of North American auto industry on parts built in all three countries, there are those in the US Congress who have a healthy appreciation of that industry. Thus, assuming that the US Congress is not fully emasculated by Trump, they will intervene and block any trade agreement that excludes Canada.
14
“[Wilbur Ross] added: ‘If not, they will then have to be treated as a real outsider.’”
Coming from Wilbur Ross, it’s pretty funny to see threats of extortion. Because he’s a thief. If Ross believes that the United States will ever treat Canada as an “outsider,” then he’s also a complete loon.
24
Unfortunately, some of my countryMEN like Trump BECAUSE he is a bully and cares nothing for team play and cooperation. However, running a country is not the same as running the puny Trump Organization, which doesn't need allies - only money, in whatever form it comes - laundering, borrowing, defaulting, or conning. If our Allies REALLY want to help us, they will help us get rid of Trump. Canada - aren't we friends?
12
yes yes, lets "get rid" of trump. but just what are you implying or calling for? oh, just impeach him? well since there are no grounds yet good luck with that. and how far ahead have you thought? get rid of trump and we get pence. have you checked on his politics? you think trump is too conservative? just wait until pence gets in office. wake up america! want a liberal-ish agenda? or a less conservative one? then you better keep trump before you wind up with pence.
For all the Americans who are interested in some factual and pretty accurate details on Canadian dairy tariffs on American dairy imports and Canadian supply management, this is worth reading:
https://www.wisconsinagriculturist.com/dairy/does-canada-really-charge-2...
8
We can assume that the Fake President knows nothing, or next to nothing, about the serious legal implications of attempting to void and replace NAFTA, absent Congressional authority, with any type of bilateral trade agreement. We can also assume the same level of ignorance possessed by him regarding the wide range of harmful trade results for the U.S. should he actually institute such a Great Deal. Lastly, we can assume that anything that emerges from his mouth or those of his Cabinet Sycophants relating to this issue will receive 4 "Pinocchios" from fact checkers.
12
What is actually in the deal?
4
If Trudeau caves to the USA's extortionist tactics, predicated as they are on the purposeful and oft-repeated Trump lie that Canada has a big trade surplus with the USA, he is finished in Canadian politics. Trump's silly and transparent methods may work for his credulous and spiteful base in the USA, but they work the exact opposite way in Canada.
So much for Trump, the great negotiator.
51
For trump & co to score a win on trade with Canada, the Canadian dairy industry must be destroyed.
Reading the analysis of the dairy industry trade in both countries leaves little room for another conclusion. The dairy industry caught trump's limited attention and that is the only item on the trade agenda that concerns the oval office; Ross and the negotiators must genuflect.
Senators and Congress persons - would you please locate your misplaced brains. Alienating Canada to prove American cows are better than Canadian cows is beyond ludicrous.
22
You know, Canada and Mexico are both members of the new Trans-Pacific trade agreement and the US is not. And Canada could also supply China with the agricultural products that it is no longer buying from US farmers. If forced to do so, Canada could get on quite well without the US. As an American, I am ashamed that my country treats others with such schoolyard bullying. If Canada feels it is not being treated fairly, I hope they turn their backs on Trump and walk away, heads held high!
36
Imagine that!!!!
A US president finally using our considerable leverage to benefit America and Americans, vs being the benevolent uncle who gets taken advantage off while being laughed at.
All trade deals with the US should be on our terms. Want access to our huge market? This is what you have to do. Sign here or take a hike.
33
@Baron95 Following your logic, all current US trading partners can choose to 'take a hike'. Where would that leave the US? Trade is not a zero-sum game.
8
@Baron95
I am not saying Mafia-like tactics might not be effective in some cases, but at the end of the day, you are still a thug.
4
Do you understand what is in the current NAFTA treaty? US corporations benefit mightily from it. Your beef isn’t with Canada, it’s with corporations that do not bring that wealth to the US worker.
1
This can go a couple ways.
One is that Trump goes through with his take-it-or-leave-it threat. Then there are two possibilities, either Mexico agrees to sign a bilateral deal, or they live up to their multiple prior assurances and do not. In the former case, probably very bad for Canada in the short term, but also bad for USA and Mexico in the longer term. In the latter case, well it's just the Singapore summit all over again - lots of noise, no substance.
Or the US, Mexico and Canada build on the agreement that the US and Mexico have worked out so far, but Trump doesn't get a bunch of stuff that he wants that would be to the detriment of both Mexico and Canada. This is better for everyone in the long run, although it will expose the fallacy that Trump embraces most dearly, that he is some kind of fantastic deal-maker who can always get what he wants. But we already knew that wasn't true, so disappointment for Trump and those who think that The Apprentice was not a fixed up piece of fiction, but better for everyone else.
19
Apparently Trump needs to get everything passed by Congress ahead of the mid-terms.
10
For the Americans to demonstrate such little respect for its northern neighbor is eye opening. Simply, it’s behavior signals that no longer can any country trust the USA to care for anything beyond the almighty dollar. Canada will perhaps economically suffer for a short period, but will ultimately be far better off with continuing policies aimed at reducing ties to today’s USA. It is a pity one can’t change geography.
184
@Rob - I agree with you...seriously a pity that one can't change geography!
I never thought the day would come that I loathe living next to the U.S.
That day is here.
7
How about the respect our northern ally has shown us, taking advantage of our economy and trade imbalances. Respect is a two way street.
Chrystia Freeland would have done better not to change her itinerary and leave the impression Washington has the upper hand in trade negotiations going forward. Trump's threats, empty or not, shouldn't be dignified by any response from Canada beyond a Pierre Trudeauesque shrug of indifference.
110
Trump has caused major structural damage to the long term American economy, as the world is beginning to turn away from America's post-war economic dominance of the world.
Nations are now looking at other nations for economic growth as America has been tainted by this extremist economic nationalism - which basically means that they are moving back in history to the Europe of the 1030's.
The German Chancellor has said that Europe and the world must move away from America - and this is what's happening.
72
@PropagandandTreason
After Trump has gone - then America and the whole political and legal system must construct an invincible legal barrier against any tyranny from taking over America, and the way that it operates its democracy, and the institutions that sustain a vibrant modern democracy.
Protect Democracy - Make Enemies Accountable.
6
thank god Germany wants to move away from us. have you seen the mess they have created there. population is in an uproar. merkel is in deep trouble. Maybe more than trump.
1
Oh, really? What a surprise! I guess Canada is interested after all.
Trump's tactics are undeniably rough, but they appear to be highly effective. It's been more than 70 years since the US really threw its weight around - which is why foreign nations played us for a patsy.
6
In what universe has Trump's approach been effective? North Korea is still developing nuclear strike capability (contrary to what Trump said he had achieved), Iran is restarting nuclear weapons development (the opposite of what anyone wants), and global climate change continues apace (whether or not you want to believe it, it's happening).
Oh wait, if you have millions in the stock market, then huge success. So there is one "success".
72
@Jonathan
- undeniably rough...really?...is that how you think treating a reliable ally and business partner is supposed is supposed to go?
Trump is a bully who lies as easily as a normal person breathes, a small vain man who only punches down and thrives on chaos that is of his own making and whines when called on it. There will be no good deals; only anger and resentment that will be remembered.
22
@Jonathan
No deal signed with Mexico yet. Not to mention Pena is only trying to burnish his corrupt legacy for the history books by thinking he can leave Mexico as having done...well I guess something.
Canada maybe interested but nothing there yet.
I'm trying to see the effectiveness of Trump that you speak of but it eludes me.
5
Chrystia Freeland is a highly competent, intelligent, widely-respected, professional woman. Her credentials and personal traits are likely to completely flummox the likes of Trump. I'm very pleased she's on our side.
344
@Michael, If trump didn't honor NAFTA what makes you think he will honor the "deal" he wants to cut with Canada now?
4
this deal can't happen without canada--it can, but it will take a lot longer and need a lot more legisation, and as long as the deal isn't closed, then, nafta is in force. now, trump desperately needs a win. getting canada on board gives him that win. so guess who really has the upper hand here?
we've seen him give away the store before.
37
There is a legal problem here. Trump is not authorized by congress to negotiate a bilateral NAFTA deal that excludes Canada. There is also the issue that auto content is only a small part of the agreement, the Mexicans don't appear to have moved on all the other stuff. I see a lot of smoke and mirrors here.
147
As a Canadian, I'm so not impressed with the "We hope that Canada will come in. If not, they will then have to be treated as a real outsider."
Wonder what the North American auto industry makes of that?
The saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is certainly true of how the U.S. is treating one of its closest, longstanding neighhbours and allies...contemptuously.
On second thought, should that be "former ally"?
So not impressed.
305
The way our President is treating our longtime ally and neighbor Canada — who runs a trade *surplus* with us — is nothing short of abuse. Canadian Freeland has to cancel meetings in Europe in order to rush back to North America in order to not get sandbagged by the United States? I feel like I'm in the upside-down land.
63
I'm flabbergasted. Does trump know anything about the Treaty? Or about economics? Or does he just listen to Grifter Ross and long for the golden age of the Porfiriato?
6
Lordie, Trump and this administration must think we are so dumb. They do not have the authority to exclude Canada and replace Nafta with a new bi-lateral agreement. Any changes to Nafta must be approved by the House and Senate, and Canada knows that Congress isn't going to approve a deal that doesn't include them.
130
@maryfromUK There are loopholes that would allow only Congress to pass it. Trump has been good at using loopholes to pass his legislation.
That is no way to treat Canada
38
First of all, there is no "deal" with Mexico. There is a n agreement of intent to further refine the key points they could agree upon. Second, the dairy issue stems from Canadian producers attempting to prevent a change in an existing clause within NAFTA that prevents dumping by American producers and the American producers have been whining for 25 yrs. Third, Trump's 95% are gloating and giggly now but, should all of Trump's ignorance based demands come to fruition, his supporters better shut up and pay the higher cost of cars and hundreds of other products.
35
at the time, people complained about the Republican "tea partyists" and referred to them as the "alt-right". as a moderate liberal I have news for everyone. the new alt-left is now far greater in number and has taken over the mainstream dem population. although most of them don't even know they have become an extreme faction. hate trump just because of who he is? a pig, no class, womanizer or whatever? does this hate make you have a knee jerk reaction to everything he says or does? to the point where you won't even consider he might actually do something right, because in your mind nothing he could do could ever be good? so you shut your mind and hold up signs that say "IMPEACH"? wake up- have you looked at who will be president if we impeach trump? have you looked into pence's politics? news flash, pence makes trump look like an Obama style liberal. so blinded to hate, you are willing to jump from the frying pan directly into the fire. I hereby resign my democratic party status until the party comes back to a more middle of the road, compromising mentality that takes everyone's voice into account, not just the raving extreme alt-liberals.
3
@bored critic oddly enough, a lot of us are just as smart as you think you are. yes, we have done all that thinking and reading and figuring out.
we do not like trump for compelling reasons, including the constitution and the survival of our democracy. we aren't blind haters. the blind people seem to be on the other side.
6
“Raving alt-left”? They’ve been voting for right-of-centrists since LBJ and Carter and getting ignored. Now that they are gaining traction the moderates won’t support them? Classy. So who will you vote for? Another billionaire?
4
Why is Canada being rushed and pressured into a deal? A quickie with Trump doesn't sound satisfying and would certainly lead to regrets.
94
@uga muga On the bright side, a quickie with Trump could be worth $130k.
13
I'm waiting for the inevitable moment when someone in the Trump administration proves Michael Kinsley right and makes a gaffe by telling the truth, which is: they want a deal by Friday because they desperately need to make everyone forget that Mueller has Trump circling the drain.
Create a new scandal to move the last scandal out of the headlines. Rinse. Repeat.
And who better to humiliate in your scandal than your closest ally's leader because he is good looking, popular, charming and young. Trump can't stand the idea that a majority of Americans would rather have Justin Trudeau as president.
The veteran's group VoteVets described the child-in-chief perfectly yesterday: "Donald Trump is a pathetic, thin-skinned, self-centered, low-class, petty coward".
And J.K. Rowling said it even more succinctly: "you tiny, tiny, tiny little man".
331
@HeyNorris. You are so right, plus Prime Minister Trudeau has his own hair and it’s great hair too, not some yellow contrived glued down pompadour.
2
In 2017 the U.S. exported over $700 million of dairy
products to Canada.
In 2017 the U.S. imported $400 million of Canadian
dairy products.
Go ahead...ask Mr Trump....what's your problem?
41
Canada is just fine and dandy with trade deals that are unfair to America like a 300 % tariff on American dairy products, but squeal mightily if Trump tries to even the playing field! Nafta is dead and Canada can continue to think that they are the needed linchpin in any trade deals except for the fact that the U.S. and Mexico are going ahead anyway! Canada is our ally but have to learn to get off the American tit!
10
@Peted
The current dairy tariff does level the playing field.
The other side of the dairy tariff is that the US supplies direct farm subsidies, and Canada doesn't. Canada instead manages supply and has higher dairy prices for consumers. The alternative to the current situation is that the US has to remove the US farm subsidy if Canada is to remove the tariff, and have it remain fair.
Trump counts on people like you that don't understand how trade works.
5
Ratcheting up the pressure is not the way that you treat your supposed best friend.
6
All i have to say (sarcastically) is "thanks America" for the way you are treating your best friend and closest ally. Trump and his negotiators have put a gun to our head. Nice. Perhaps Canada should push back and threaten to cut off our water and cheap electricity/oil that fuels Trump's buildings and stretch limousines. Maybe Canada should pull out of NORAD? Trump probably doesn't even know what that is.
Why is it that 50% of American's continue to support Trump and Republicans in general?
151
@Steve I blame it on years of brainwashing by the news media. The problem extends beyond just Fox
1
@Steve It's only 41% at present Steve, but your point is still well taken.
1
@Steve
According to a recent poll, Republican, and independents who say they lean Republican is 31%.
In the 2017 election Clinton won the popular vote.
The perception of Trump popularity is partly to do with the way voting is organized, the electoral college, the seats allotted to States do not reflect actual population, gerrymandering, laws and chicanery that make it difficult or even actively prevent people from voting. The US has one of the lowest voter turnouts in developed, democratic countries coming in at number 26 of 32. Approx 47% did not vote in 2017.
Every State has 2 senate seats regardless of population, it skews perception and affects the power base.
CA has 2 seats representing 37,341,989 people
WY has 2 seats representing 568,300 people
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/Census10/FedRep.phtml
1
Ah yes, I'm so happy Donnie has finally decided to use his bigly brain to get these bigly deals. I have full faith that he understands economics better than the majority of experts honestly.
6
ugh. It is more than obvious that this "deal" constitutes a hasty move the Trump team made in order to distract people from the ongoing Russia investigation, as well as the Manforte trial and Michael Cohen's testimony. Too bad they don't know that some of us can't be distracted. It is also shows the pettiness of Mr. Trump (like we didn't have enough of that already with his shameful treatment of Sen. McCain over the past weekend) that he is still trying to punish Canadian p.m. Trudeau by leaving Canada out. This is not governing. It is a disgrace and an international embarrassment.
36
They'll be treated as a "real". outsider' as opposed to what, being treated just like every other former ally?
16
Ms Freeland will, on behalf of the Canadian government, deliver a reasoned and fair proposal. It will be up to the Mexicans to choose which partner to support. Stewardship of the environment and development of sustainable resources must be our shared responsibility.
36
@A Canadian cousin At no point should Freeland bring up gender diversity, the environment, sustainable resources or any other progressive cause. Trump is not going to go for any of that. Canada needs to sign this deal in terms of economics and economics only.
6
@DGL47
Stewardship of the environment and development of sustainable resources ARE economic factors.
2
"The United States and Mexico have expressed hopes that they will have the agreement fully in place before the next Mexican administration takes office later this year."
Any guess what Trump's reaction would have been if the Obama Administration would have tried to fast track revisions to NAFTA after the 2016 election?
Lopez Obrador and his supporters may react in a similar manner to an outgoing government with a 17% approval rating rushing this through
10
@Dan
Do you mean if Clinton had won the election or President Trump?
I had always heard that Trump never did anything for American working people, then I read -- buried in this article -- that he increased the requirement for auto parts to be made by workers making at least $16 an hour. Now I'm really confused.
5
@JB
Trump's new clause will give some workers raises. But he also increased tariffs and removed Canada from NAFTA. As a result, a lot of companies with production lines crossing Canada will have less incentive to follow the agreement because they'll have to pay the tariffs anyway. Also, those numerous companies which import parts / materials have to lay off workers and close factories because the tariffs kill their profit margin.
Trump isn't really giving incentives to import American goods, as I believe a good trade deal should. Instead, he is saying buy American steel or I'll take your money. Buy coal instead of gas, or I'll close down / penalize your power plant. Build in America or I'll charge you more. Pay Americans more or pay me (the government more) in tariffs. It's all artificial. He's using the office of the president to strong-arm people in ways that encourage them to leave the USA. If companies all had the leeway to follow his ultimatums and still make a hefty profit, it wouldn't be an issue. But many factories report they don't. Some need quality foreign products the US can't produce; others can't afford monopolistic price hikes; others are importing their parent company's materials. Those factories close and leave the USA. Wisely used, strong-arming may be a powerful tool, but unwisely used it bleeds jobs. And I don't trust Trump to know his foot from his hand, let alone balance the economy.
7
@JB well, you should be. that requirement is not aimed at american workers, but mexican workers. the deal as it's laid out now will mostly "help" american workers by jacking up the price of cars.
2
@JB
The average hourly rate for U.S. auto workers is $22.00.Still confused?
Trade between the US and Canada is well balanced. If services are included US has a surplus. While it is a much larger proportion of Canada's economy the impact on people and businesses on both sides of the border would be comparable. Canada also provides a substantial amount of oil, gas and lumber to the US economy. Without Nafta we would not have to charge Americans the same amount as Canadians. Canada is not without defensive measures. Canada is not going to sign anything that is not in our national interest. Chrystia Freeland and Justin Trudeau will stand up to the Trump bullying politely and firmly.
147
@Barbara Greene ... where's the bullying? The Mexico deal ( presumably Canada will join ) will add to jobs in the American and Canadian auto industries as per the $16/hr wage requirement and domestic content requirement.
1
@Barbara Greene My understanding has been that in order to amend NAFTA, Congress has to approve. This was an international treaty, just like our treaty with the WTO. Trump can't just tear it up, so if I were Trudeau, I'd flip Trump off and continue as usual.
We have to keep in mind that prior to the adoption of the WTO and NAFTA, as well as the EU trade treaties, trade barriers and tariffs were a disaster for world stability. It is insane to think we will not revert to that if Trump is allowed to destroy fifty years of stability in world markets.
7
@BD Where is the bullying? Trump unilaterally asserted that the US was ripping up the NAFTA treaty. We have been negotiating with Mexico, only. Now that Trump has a draft of a deal with Mexico, he has told Canada that they must agree to its terms by Friday, or they will not be included. Sounds like bullying, doesn't it?
2
I was advised during my business life to respect your friends who helped you on the way up so if you experience problems at some time in the future they will be able and willing to assist you in your hour of need.
If you abuse your relationship with business partners don't expect them to come to your aid on your way down.
69
That’s because you weren’t raised by wolves.
7
This is a longer version of one of my mother's sayings: You meet the same people on the way down that you met on the way up. She had so many pearls of wisdom. I do not know if they were prairie..where I was born...or English...her parents were English immigrants.
1
Dairy production is not subsidized in Canada. In the US subsidies account for 73% of dairy income (https://www.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-per....
In Canada dairy farmers use a bidding system to restrict their own output to anticipated demand.
Canada also has restrictions on hormone application to cattle.
Many American comments on this topic assume the problem with being able to dump their hormone-driven cow-abusing highly subsidized overproduction into Canadian markets at volume is because of 'unfair' barriers by Canadians. These comments are misinformed.
477
@Susan Watson Dairy is subsidized in Canada by consumers who pay well over market-price for dairy products. And we (Canada) imports a lot of American cheese and beef, none of it has hormones. Your comments are misinformed as well.
2
@DGL47 "market price" is a matter of supply and demand. Market price is whatever you actually pay for optional consumer products.
1
@Susan Watson Susan, it doesn't matter. Whatever market price is for dairy, we pay well over it - up to 300% . It's a rip-off. And it's a subsidy.
Just as there is no free lunch, there are no unfair trade deals. Every dollar of current account deficit is a dollar of capital account surplus. What we lose in jobs we make up for in lower prices and cheaper capital.
Because we are the strongest, richest nation on earth, we have a comparative advantage in stores of value, so that is what we sell. If we got rid of tariffs everywhere, we would still sell paper and buy goods, because that's how the world works. Artificially exalting manufacturing over finance is simply defeatism in the search for a way to share the benefits of our advantage.
7
@Nemoknada ... yes, lower prices for bond investors and investors in other assets that benefit from cheap labor.
2
@Nemoknada
No free lunch on your side either. Canadian/US trade is balanced. Your milk lobby is promoting a solution to your own issues-mainly overproduction. Our supply chain management tries to reduce that issue by managing supply. You do understand Canadian's purchase more goods and services from the US than any other nation on earth. The whole debate regarding Canada/US trade is poorly discussed in the United States. We are co-dependent in most aspects of trade and security. Canada cannot allow unfettered access to its economy as the US has almost 9 times the population and industrial base as we have. We would get swamped. Regarding a perceived trade imbalance- it is about 18 billion-strip out oil and gas and it would be a surplus for the US. We sell oil from the oil sands at a discount because we can't get enough to tide water. You would lose energy security, we would gain price on our oil and gas products.
4
@Paul
To that you might add, Paul, that the U.S. enjoys a 6 to 1 trade advantage in the overall dairy market. The portion of the market that falls under supply management is miniscule, not only in our overall mutual trade, but within the dairy sector as well.
U.S. dairy producers are very highly subsidised, but even then many are losing money. In short, U.S. producers are dumping output into Canada.
The product is suspect as well - hormones, antibiotics and ultra-pasteurization.
1
The requirement to source 75% of car parts content in North America is a huge boon to Mexico. This will push Japanese, Korean and European automakers with auto plants in North America to continue to grow their parts supply base in Mexico.
This in turn puts Mexico in a more favorable position to take advantage of their free trade agreements with 40% of the global auto market.
The $16 wage rule will promote more production of the cheaper cars now made in Mexico to automated plants in the US, with some job gains at the low end of the US wage scale.
Canada's objection would be to any steel content mandates. But even that might push factories to Canada for the cheaper steel.
In all, modest changes.
5
Wilbur Ross: "“We hope that Canada will come in. If not, they will then have to be treated as a real outsider.”
This is not the way one treats a close friend and ally. First the U.S. excludes Canada from talks with Mexico, then puts pressure on Canada to agree to the terms by the end of the week!
This may be the way Trump has done business his whole life: do what I want or else. But it is no way to run a government.
I am so disgusted and ashamed to be an American at this point.
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@MCH
Canada is "killing" the US with tariffs? Really? Canada, with 10% of the population of the US, and a GDP the size of Texas? Get a grip.
@MCH and bored critic: As an American who has been living abroad for over 3 decades (for family, not political reasons), I can only say that the situation in America saddens me greatly. I and my EU-US mixed family are doing just fine here in Germany, aside from lumbering under the terrible yolk of universal health care, free university education, paid family leave, monthly child subsidies, etc.
But I still have family in the U.S. And I am concerned about them.
Also, as an American living abroad, I have very often found that people tend to view me as a representative of America and to hold me accountable for the actions of the U.S. government: this was true under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and now under Trump. And with Trump, I'm sorry, but there is absolutely nothing I can say to defend his behavior. He is a stain on our nation.
@MCH we are not killing you with tariffs. Only on dairy do we have tariffs. And so do you on dairy and lumber going into USA from Canada.
If Trump wants Canada in by Friday he will have to yield on a few points. Of course, we'll be happy to SAY he 'won'.
18
...And we will be keeping our marijuana to ourselves in the future, thank you.
68
@pealass Thanks for making me chuckle!
2
The American president is taunting Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
Nothing else to see here but a predictable “shocking” development. No. 45 thinks he can overpower the younger man, the leader of our close Northern neighbor and ally. He thinks he can bully the Canadian Prime Minister and then crow about it on the world stage, rubbing his nose in it. No American president treats an ally in such shabby fashion; unless the president’s name is Donald Trump.
Of course Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross is telling Canada “take it or leave it,” while Steven Mnuchin, over a Treasury, is saying that a U.S.-Canadian deal can be worked out “bilaterally.” It isn’t clear here whether Congress will spend large amounts of time on a two-nation NAFTA deal (America and Mexico) and a separate deal with Canada. It’s all so unnecessary.
Trump’s putting a shine on his “deal-making” prowess instead of doing what’s right for the American consumer and laborer. Why are we surprised by his childish antics?
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@Soxared, '04, '07, '13
There is no shine. He is a lousy deal maker, a disgusting bully and put down artist. How shallow! He offends pretty much everyone, is a bull in the china shop, and a hopeless braggart with nothing real to brag about. He's pathetic and lame.
7
Trump & Co. have had nearly two years to renegotiate NAFTA; instead, they sat on their hands, and now propose a minimally different agreement with Mexico, then issue an ultimatum to Canada to agree to terms immediately because they want it approved before the Mexican government takes office. International trade isn’t about bludgeoning your trade partners into submission. You can try that, but down the road, when you need concessions, don’t expect anyone to be sympathetic.
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@Ockham9 who is to say the next Mexican government does not exit the treaty. Also I don’t understand how the current Mexican government can sign a treaty now. They lost.
3
I’m confused: is the economy great and unemployment at the lowest, or are we losing jobs elsewhere?
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@Chris
No just taking revenge and beating his chest and saying, “look at me not McCAIN not Muller, and that good looking man and very competent woman fron Canada!!!”
2
So, under Trump, this is how the US treats its closest ally - rip up a long standing agreement, get frozen out of negotiations and be presented with a high pressure ultimatum, sign or we tank your economy.
It is almost as bad as being married to him!
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@Paul
Canada smugly refused to consider a deal that was more fair to American workers and froze itself out.
2
@Conservative Democrat
Paul, Canada has trade deficit with US, so who is NAFTA unfair to?
1
@Paul
In some ways that's how the administration is treating Iran. My way or the highway.
1
Canada can get on board and make a deal, or they can be left out. Trump's mandate is to negotiate the best possible deal for the USA.
6
@Phil
The problem with this bullying tactic and short sightedness (like pulling out of the TPP) is that the socio economic effect of such actions will cause a much more painful reaction against us; or it will cause a crisis in another part of the world that will disrupt our economy. The world is intertwined and to every action there is a reaction.
32
@Phil But Trump isn't negotiating the best deal for the US. He wants to stomp on US allies, even if it harms trade and the American people. Look at the reactions to his demands on Canada from US legislators. Trump does not understand basic economics and sees everything as a poker game. Read John McCain's last words for an alternative view of what is important.
13
@Jason Hillary was for pulling out of TPP. I guess that doesn't count in your evaluation.
I remember when the GOP was apoplectic because Obama didn’t seek congressional approval for treaties and agreements. Seems like Trump is now signing treaties without Senate ratification and nary a word from Republicans.
347
@David Bill Clinton did NAFTA. The SNL skits were fantastic.
@Dude
Completely wrong. The first version of NAFTA was a Reagan idea, with the backing of Canadian PM Brian Mulroney.
After Bush Sr. was elected, he insisted Mexico be included. Bush Sr. signed the actual NAFTA deal.
Clinton merely signed the enabling legislation.
1
@Lew Fournier I wish people like Dude would do some research or read some history. It's why we have the people in power today. Lack of real facts.