I have listened to a few comedian podcasts when I have to do long drives in part because it helps me stay awake. I haven't heard of nor would I have much use for podcasts of the type ranted about in this article.
Podcasts are a medium. Take from it what is useful, or leave them alone. Personally I have enjoyed and learned a lot from the podcasts/master classes done by Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock. I already pay $100 per hour for instruction at half that level, so why would I object to paying $5 per hour for those?
1
I really had to laugh when I read this because my husband listens to all these podcasts and has tried many of the things mentioned in the article. I frequently tell him that one day he's gonna biohack himself to death.
21
Be a lamp onto your own feet. Do not seek from others.
Guatama
1
My favorite part of this piece - "Is this a postmodern monastic order, passing on breakfast and shivering in the shower while pondering the next step in mastering the ego?"
4
Aren't individual differences fascinating? My individual difference is that I view self help and self improvement as ersatz commercialism: you're a product in the marketplace of social esteem and status, and you can improve your product for better market reception!
What better way to feel like a good person than to do all the things a good person does. Hey, here's a good person, let's ask them what they do, and you can imitate it!
Evolutionary biology means tribalism? Good lord, where do these people learn biology? Evolutionary biology means bipedalism, language, delayed development and a vast urge toward social imitation, principally -- two decades of learning language and all the social rules that come with it.
The reason primitive groups are limited to 30 to 50 has to do with energy and resource limitations, not biology. Invent a coal energy economy, and you get cities of millions. And way fewer cousin weddings!
If you can't recognize a fad when you encounter one, you're deep down inside your evolutionary impulse for social imitation -- hard to resist, when you're only 28 years old! Imitation creates fads and these "bros" are just shucking fads. You imitate them, you become a fad vector. There's biology in plain view.
The trick is to discover yourself, get comfy with yourself, and let all the rest of the humanity insanity slide. No lessons on how to do that. You just do it.
5
Why all this 'bro' speak? This is a term that is universally used derogatively for men, particularly in the NY Times. It's so poorly defined that it doesn't really mean anything descriptive, but to me it comes across as dismissive and derogatory. Can you imagine an article about podcasters that are mostly women or mostly black and the writer continually using a term of similar effect?
15
“...self-mastery of the ego....that’s real masculinity”...actually, most women learn to master our egos when young; we have to. We learn it from facing adversity and being systematically excluded from power, which most of these privileged white guys haven’t had a chance to experience. How admirable to spend all one’s time working only on optimizing one’s life! There’s only one problem—it’s not how you become a true adult. Caring for others is an earmark of adult behavior; I’d love to see some of the energy they spend on finding things to buy to improve themselves devoted to volunteering or service.
5
About the only reasonable commentary in this thinly veiled attempt to catch the current cultural zeitgeist, is the very last paragraph.
There's reasonable criticism of this 'bro' collective but this just reads as poorly researched and condescending opportunism. Rogan has some profoundly interesting and important guests e.g. Michael Pollan, which in this article just gets washed into some throw away dismissive comment about hallucinogenic tea. What a serious disservice this does.
4
Pro’s of the white-guy-podcasts:
• Emphasis on self-improvement and the diversity of topics
• Consumed Audibly – I couldn’t/wouldn’t watch three hours of most media, but I can listen as I drive, cook, etc. And bc they are downloadable, the media is flexible.
• Long-form Format – can get into the weeds on topics that traditional commercial media can’t even touch. Traditional, commercial, sound-bite media is unbearable to me now.
The negatives for me are more subtle and hard to define. I’ve listened to many hours of Rogan podcasts over the years, and bought some of his products to help support him. But I’m not sure he’s as reliable or helpful as his listeners think. Leading up to the 2016 elections, Rogan frequently would put Hilary Clinton in the same category as Donald Trump, alluding to deep-state conspiracies and world-banking heists. Many of my friends who are Rogan-lovers didn’t bother to vote in the last election because they thought it was rigged. Like Alex Jones, Rogan has helped to bring conspiracy theories into the mainstream. The result is a dangerous world-view that I see in many young people nowadays: detached, isolated, cynical. Facts and traditional science do matter. When people think it’s all just hooey you get… well you get what we have now.
6
Having listened to perhaps 2 dozen episodes from the various podcasts that the author refers to, it seems to me she has mostly missed the point, or perhaps just too casually dismissed the genre due to her misunderstandings. I respect her right to not like them, but the smug and condescending judgments she makes reveal her shallow exploration (and perhaps an unfortunately narrow lens into this new corner of the media landscape).
I subscribe to the NYT and could lodge equivalent criticisms regarding the uneven quality of the advertisers/audience, contributors I find "not to my liking" or otherwise objectionable or shallow, etc. But I find it easy to forgive the NYT it's imperfections and lapses because the aspirations are noble and badly needed in a time where so much of the competition for our attention is far worse than "uneven". I love that these long form discussions about serious, fun, interesting, or even "unproven" topics are this popular - it gives me hope that there are FAR more interesting, inquisitive and yes, imperfect, people in the world than the impression I would get if I only read/watched the news.
This article was a disappointing, shallow read. But I remain an enormous fan of the NYT!
10
Dunning-Kruger is more than an effect. It is a syndrome, apparently.
Molly, I believe you missed the mark and disagree with your article. You didn't get it, you're close, but either the words are getting stuck in your throat or you just can't will yourself to open your eyes to it. Hey, you've got a good education, have a bit to learn, but you can do this. Here it is:
Any fool can make an impression; it takes someone special to show you character.
Sort it out.
What these interviewers do is special, they teach to never ignore or toy with character you do not understand. Hint; not every special character announces itself. If you're not thoroughly shocked and suprised at what some of us have done on this planet, you're simply not paying attention.
Before you get back to sidetracked over character building, the philosophy of personal development, self improvement stupidities, the point of the whole of these interviews is to show you character, some good, some awful, try to grasp it, wrestle with it, force it to something useful, or choke it out without getting poisoned by it. Take your pick.
The building blocks of great character are fascinating, why not engage and enjoy absorbing same, celebrate it even, before it's declared beyond its expiration date and usefulness as a dangerous toxicity that turns inward on itself all the time, the thing that saved now ruining itself?
Yes.
I did rescues Sebastian Junger wrote about. I saw some character, have some myself, know a lot of people with it.
All the best to you, good try. You can do this.
4
Rogan front loads his commercials, which last about 5 minutes and you can fast forward. Insignificant over the 3 hour run time. But if you only listen to 10-15 minute snippet, it could be intolerable (much like NYTimes pushing ads of German sports cars to me probably due to my hated lemon BMW searches)
These long form, non-partisan interviews are insightful, but not a revelation. They show the thought process of the interviewee. Many times I do not agree with their conclusion, but I do not demonize the person.
3
If you are prone to compare the podcasters mentioned with pastors, ministers or some kind of high-priest there is at least one major difference. To the best of my knowledge all these people pay taxes. Heavy loads of taxes.
6
I have always suspected that "self help" is really about helping to sell something.
To counter the podcasters I would use the Lindy effect as explained by Nassim Taleb. To paraphrase: There can be nothing true today that was not already true 2000 years ago.
2
I started reading this piece on board with Molly Worthen's sneering take of the latest scam from the apolitical fringe. I finished almost fully converted to that point of view. Finally, relief from the trench warfare in America's psyche that is beyond any kind of political resolution. We're not going to hate each other to ultimate victory or cosmic insight. We can only understand our plight in as broad and deep a context as possible. Our tribal wars are a symptom of a deeper disease of alienation and loneliness. This is where the healing must begin.
6
Okay..."Bro' Science" has been around for a long time. If you've spent any time in a gym you've heard some of it. But its mostly been about exercises, and the optimal way to perform. Most of which was being proselytized by muscle bound mooks, who think everyone wants to look like them. They have always lacked science, always ignore that most of what they do is causing them life-long injuries, unsustainable body mass (without drugs) and the accompanying health issues of what is an unhealthy life-style. (Pro-Am Bodybuilders are not healthy, their marketing is rife with lies.)
These Pod-Bro's, like them or not, bring actual science into the discussion. Of course most of its under-researched, hot off the quick to press "breakthru" industry of supplements, and additives. Bio-hacking is the general term these days. But its not really a hack, its most often reconfigured older rituals (fasting is ancient) with modern supplements added in. Go Coconut oil!
A big attractions is the time they spend with "experts" and leaders in the various fields of interest. An hour spent with a Psychologist expounding on new research is unheard of these days of 7 mins segments on Dr. Oz, The View, GMA, etc. And these guys are well prepared for their guests. Unlike the aforementioned talking-heads on TV.
A lot of people (me) want to learn about the Whys of exercise and nutrition, not just handed a list of Do's and Do Not's, like usual. Even if I dismiss it, at least Ive learned something new.
5
There is no doubt that these 'personalities' are filling a void, as far too many folks feel lost in an upside-down world where greed and inequality and lack of social justice seem to thrive, at the expense of too many. But beware of the charlatans out there, who mix some truisms with magic tricks to get you 'hooked' into believing what may be just an expensive illusion of control, and an easy source of money to enrich these shaman-like opportunists. All I want to say is, use some skeptic distance before embracing pseudo-truths however convincing they may sound. Stay true to yourself, use moderation in what you do, and use prudence in your life (doing what's right, however hard). And educate yourself in the ways of the world; and avoid shiny objects, as they may very well be a mirage. And one more thing: try to stay away from loud people 'a la Trump', they are harmful to your soul.
17
I listen to these shows. They are a great way to learn a different perspective. Our society is in dire need of more understanding. Dire need.
Joe Rogan has guests like Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris and Abby Martin. They often have deeply opposing perspectives. They are given nearly three hours to express their views and how they arrived at them. The conversation is civil, funny and never hurried. How is this negative?
Often I listen to these podcasts while working out. I discuss them with family and friends the same way I’ve done with newspaper articles for years.
Anyone who has any curiosity should check them out. (Hardcore History is a favorite. The multi-part episodes on The Mongrels and on World War I are better than any audiobook). Of course you are welcome to continue to live in your little bubble only hearing views and seeing people who support your narrow views.
15
In other words, "the medium is the message." Wonder if there's a podcast about Marshall McLuhan ...
1
One of the most challenging tasks college professors face is getting students to understand that critiquing a paper, speak, or movement doesn't mean rooting around to find what's wrong with it. It means holding your own biases in abeyance as you work to fully grasp what is being argued or offered, then objectively evaluating how well the evidence supports or fail to support that view.
This review and the one recently published about Gwyneth Paltrow fails on both counts. The pieces rely on cheap shots, eye-rolling, and mockery, inviting the reading to join in the fun of seeing just how ridiculous it all is. They might as well have just written something like, "I mean this is just so lame, am I right?"
14
@Denise I did not get that from the article. The opinion piece did not attempt to analyze and evaluate every podcaster's canon but did note some of their similarities from odd physical habit building to sharing promotional interviews and products to providing a broad variety of interviews without much editing and their appeal to followers. There was some attempt at humor/literary eye-rolling when it came to the more bizarre prescriptions but I can't blame the writer since they do, in fact promote them.
2
Hi, this is an opinion piece.
This article doesn’t do that at all.
2
So glad someone has finally done a piece on this phenomenon. Some middle-aged male friends of mine follow a few of these quacks. If you grew up on video games and hyper-consumerism, maybe with an absent father, and without any spiritual orientation, it’s only natural I suppose that you would be drawn to “life hacks”, just to try and fill the void that the culture convinces you is there. There’s a sliding scale between, say, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, but this whole field showcases how desperate many men are for validation.
3
Why did this article need to be so condescending?
These shows aren't without their shortcomings but Joe Rogan and the others may be the most intellectually curious and introspective successful mass-media outlet in the country. What other American media outlet reaching millions of viewers/listeners per episode gives authors, scienstists, and researchers 2-3 hours of airtime to talk about their work and field hundreds of questions? These shows have made clear how unbelievably shallow and unsatisfactory most media outlets are giving you anything but hot takes.
11
This is an opinion piece. In the “opinion” section of the paper. Where writers can freely express their opinion.
1
"The unexamined life isn't worth leading." Men have been pursuing physical, social and spiritual meaning since the beginning of time.
In America, men are taught to believe they are just fine the way they are, they don't need to change, it is the world that is wrong.
If these podcasts get men to think about what it means to live a "good" life then they are carrying on the tradition of Socrates, which is a very good thing indeed.
10
These "remedies" are all fantastic realizations of the human essence. These latter-day stoics might learn something by reading someone who understood ancient Greek philosophy very well--writing his dissertation on it. Marx's "Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy or Right" addresses all this, AND addresses the structural issues these folks spend so much time evading. It's the opium of the people piece that Christopher Hitchens had memorized and would quote at the drop of a hat. Much better than a cold shower or a hair-shirt.
2
I have not heard any of these podcasts and therefore cannot speak intelligently about them. However, anyone paying attention can see that a lot mainstream media have become increasingly nothing more than a burnt-out landscape of soundbite infotainment attached to a 24-hour news cycle that repeats the same stories and commentary over and over. The system benefits primarily corporate advertisers, and yet people trying something different are called hucksters. A lot of people are getting fed up and peare hoping for searching for something different.
12
When everyone has in their earbuds, we are all lonely islands of one. That 'optimizes' us how?
11
To reiterate some of the other commenters, and I only speak with Joe, I think his podcasts are much much needed in our current media landscape. They are long, unscripted, different every week (leftists, conservative academics, scientists). Joe is curious about everything and let’s the guests talk and decide where the conversation goes. I’d recommend him to anyone!
19
We ought to embrace our suffering and fears. Not seek to mask it with metaphysics. This is the human condition that Siddhartha found at the end of his quest: humans suffer through life while the buddha lives blissful, knowing all his sufferings.
5
The condescending tone of this article is not warrented. Many people enjoy these podcasts as an entertaining forum for intriguing ideas, but don't necessarily subscribe to all of the ideas presented or agree with the host's conclusion. The listeners of these podcast are not as cultish as the author suggests. Certainly there are some listeners who take the word of a Joe Rogan or an Aubrey Marcus as gospel, but I believe most are intelligent enough to discern for themselves which ideas and practices have merit in their lives and which don't.
Also, the dismissive attitude regarding evolutionary biology and stoicism is puzzling. These are ideas are not mutually exclusive with social limitations placed on people such as class or race. Evolutionary biology provides an enlightening insight into possible explanations for human behavior and stoicism offers a philosophical approach for coping with the human experience. Neither of these disciplines contain a rejection of social inequality. They can be applied by anyone in any circumstance.
There's nothing inherently wrong with a medium resonating with some people and not others. Clearly, the format and content of these podcasts don't resonate with the author. And that's OK.
46
@Anthony
I don’t get the “dismissive” tone. What I hear is lightly satirical, a tone that allows for a tight, substantive coverage with entertainment of the type that would be allowed, it would seem, by the podcasters themselves. They would be wearing a light, “stoical,” smile. I don’t currently listen to these podcasts, but I might do so now.
5
@Anthony Perfectly said. The comparison to "filling the void of religion" cheapens the entire thing, and assumes all the downsides to religion and dogma are present here, too. Like you said, most of us take what we want and leave the rest.
4
@Joe
Cool! We've reached a world where self-actualization gurus are cheapened by association with religion :-)
I don't listen to podcast. There is just so much noise all around us. I take my noise cancelling headphones at home and read a good book. Noise pollution all around in LA.
13
Hey, “whatever floats your boat.” As long as there is no injury to others, go for it if it makes you happy, healthy or feel better.
And I emphasize that whatever you believe or do has no deleterious impact on others.
7
" ... quit blaming other people or bad luck for their problems" Oh, and we as a nation are supposed to just forget slavery? Hey, it was just business... where's my tribe? In South Carolina?
7
Who has time for podcasts? I’d rather read.
14
@gk Try reading while driving to work, mowing the lawn, doing the dishes, etc. Podcasts allow media consumption at times where is was previously very difficult. Podcasts are complementary to reading, they don’t displace it.
5
Try mowing the lawn while you’re mowing the lawn. Try doing the dishes while you’re doing the dishes. :)
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
A lot of the biohacks and "lifestyle interventions" that these podcasts promote are based on serious scientific research by such people as
Valter Longo, Ph.D.
Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D.
Daniel lieberman, Ph.D.
Robert Sapolsky, Ph.D.
Mark Mattson, Ph.D.
Satchin Panda, Ph.D.
Luigi Fontana, Ph.D.
leonard Guarente, Ph.D.
Krista Varady, Ph.D.
David Sinclair, Ph.D.
Cynthia Kenyon, Ph.D.
Richard Weindruch, Ph.D.
and many others
These free podcasts are doing us a great service by bringing this vital information out of the lab and into the mainstream. It is depressing that so many uninformed commenters just brush it off as snake oil. Shame on you! Refrain from commenting if you don't know what you're talking about.
46
@Craig Willison, I took a few close looks at some of the "serious scientific" research done by several of the listed Ph.D's on your list. Snake oil is an accurate description.
5
@Craig Willison A research study on its own is not sufficient to qualify as evidence-based knowledge. One can cherry picks studies all the day long to support an assertion.
1
I don't think the tone of this article is appropriate. Rogan has some of the most accomplished scientists, astronomers, and thinkers in the world on his show. Many of these shows are very intellectually stimulating. Also, promoting health and fitness is good.
41
One question that this article & the comments thus far has me curious about:
There seems to be a concern that these online 'communities' are in some fundamental way lacking substance, or are a distraction from higher responsibilities which, if the audiences pursued instead, would be of greater benefit to society. What then is the pitch for getting the listeners to participate more in the development of real communities? What is it about these shows that offers more appeal than what is readily available, but maybe overlooked or taken for granted in their lives? Or alternatively, what do these people find lacking in their immediate communities that they do find in these podcast networks?
Maybe one additional consideration with regard to these podcasts is that they are so subjectively interesting to the audience that people are willing to give up 3 hours of their day to soak up all this advice & conversation, maybe at the expense of focusing on work or other real-world matters. Rogan alone puts out almost 15 hours of material a week, and there is maybe an allure/addictive quality to 'learning' about interesting subjects that feels superficially noble and productive, but is ultimately just a different form of procrastination, or perhaps the listeners think that by bettering themselves as individuals that will translate to bettering the community. Are they being misled by a delusional narcissism, or is this just entertainment?
6
@Adam
Interesting point. Assuming we might all be better spending more time working or with family/friends/communities, still, we all spend some time watching TV/movies, reading or in more relaxing pursuits. I find SO many of these episodes deeply educational and they've introduced me to a ton of great books, sites, films and have stimulated great conversations with friends and family. But like anything else, it's a question of balance. Given how many hours the average American spends watching TV (much of it the opposite of "educational", I find these podcasts to be very easy to defend.
7
These bros are as exhausting as their cult-like fans who pass on the latest pod’s tips and product recs over avocado toast at brunch. Thy definitely have optimize being annoying.
10
I can't get past the contradiction at the heart of the message from these pod gurus.
They preach one or another version of the Buddhist idea that the self is an illusion, and that enlightened people should transcend the ego and be at one with the universe. But even as they claim the self is an illusion, they relentlessly direct listeners to cultivate the self--a better body, the perfect lifestyle, the coolest gadgets and daily routines.
Devoting your time, money, and energy to perfecting the self is not the path to transcending the self––it's just old fashioned narcissism.
127
@Nancy B
I am uncertain if you understand narcissism. Things like stoicism and self improvement are answers to narcissim. Buddhism also asks for self improvement. It is looking for enlightened self improvement with maturity and thoughfulness.
12
Im sorry Nancy but it is clear you have never once listened to any of these podcasts. They don’t sell much of anything besides sharing experiences that have worked for them. In my experience with Rohan, I’ve listened to him interview scientists, astronomers, political pundits on both sides to have long in depth 2/3 hour interviews that are candid and unscripted. In no joking way, they are a modern fireside chat and deserve a spot in our clickbait and quick to publish media today.
I’d appreciate if people stopped spreading false and misleading information based on gut reactions
3
I’ve listened to Ferriss a few times. I enjoy the interviews and hearing successful people describe the habits and outlook that have helped them along the way. But every time I’m on the verge of becoming a more regular listener, I get a whiff of hucksterism and snake-oil salesman that sends me fleeing. It’s really just a different flavor of mega-church where the faithful hand over their trust and dollars to a pastor who drives off in his Ferrari.
124
Ferriss is a hack who got rich by being an inconsiderate tool and exploiting low wages of workers in the 3rd world, and then selling a glimmer of hope with limited transferability to millions of desperate wage workers. The 4 hour work week only works if you manage to wedge yourself into a very niche market (one that seems to provide little actual value).
2
These podcasts sound terrible, I rolled my eyes so much they very nearly popped out of my skull. Quasi-spiritual nonsense is still nonsense. Listen to fascinating podcasts about art, science, life and culture or at least comedy podcasts that stick to comedy. Anybody who tries to get me to a "deeper" state of mind will get nothing but derision from me. The men capable of this level of blowhardism will get absolutely none of my time. Of course they would go on paeans about not sticking to your tribe, their tribe whether or not they choose to view them as such is the most comfortable, fairly affluent straight white bros, those of us not willing to tolerate the status quo are being "tribalistic". They should get out of here with their false equivalences this is unabashed pseudointellectualism at it's most base form. This was an excellent read by the way, I enjoyed this author's article.
9
Westerners fascination with Buddhism is interesting, you threw away your parents feel good bunkum for someone else's parents feel good bunkum?
12
Also what is with the obsession with military people on these shows, you're trained to be cannon fodder for the government and suddenly you're a transcendent guru?
16
It’s the American Way Of War. You can’t even go to a baseball game without being pressured to applaud the war machine.
2
I don't think you've hit on some huge psycho-societal shift here. Noticeably absent from this critique of the bro-cast culture is families. Guys like Tim Ferris and most of his followers don't have kids, like many millennials, and are looking for fulfillment elsewhere. That's fine, but I don't think one should overlook the centering effect that having a family can have on your life. Families can help individuals be less selfless, more communal and more empathetic - all things that people are trying to get out of social media and the podcast universe. Except with families you learn in real time without having to contrive some daily routine based on ancient theological rituals, countless studies, etc., etc.
In sum, it's time for the bros to grow up. That doesn't mean you have to start a family, but get out there and meet people. Interact with people face-to-face, instead of trying out some new approach based on something you learned on a podcast. Learn authenticity, and what works and what doesn't in a social setting based on who you are as a person, not who some podcaster tells you that you should be.
17
@Clint I don't think they would disagree with any of that, though.
1
There seems to be a tension here between optimization/salvation as an individual endeavor and as a social endeavor. And there always has been.
6
The really sad part of this article is it gives me the sense that so many people have given up on the real society they are forced to take refuge in online "societies", many of which are for-profit and intensely focused on INDIVIDUAL wellbeing.
14
@Sean Do you know that podcast is just a fancy 2018 way of saying radio?
Did you get the sense that FDR's fireside chats on the old farm radios (made possible by the rural electrification act) indicated that "many people have given up on real society"?
21
This is way wide of the beam. First, podcasting is not broadcasting. Podcasts can be any length, can be time-shifted and binged and as easy to produce as one person, one microphone. Radio is either public or corporate and someone else controls the means of production. Yes, many radio companies are now in podcasting - but so is everyone else.
As for FDR, his Fireside Chats were a way to keep the American people informed by boiling down difficult topics - like banking - into something easier to comprehend. Roosevelt believed in the power of collective action and the social safety net. These “bro” podcasters seem to be plowing a different field entirely. It’s all about “personal responsibility” and “refusing to engage in victimhood”. What’s left out is the importance of coming together - whether in a union, a political party, a congregation, etc - to achieve an end. Yes, we should all be responsible for ourselves and try to rise above our circumstances. But we also need to be responsible for the least among us and attempt to lift others up as well. I shudder to think how any great progressive movement - abolition, civil rights, unionization - would’ve occurred in a climate of “Improve yourself - forget these tribes”.
@Tim It makes me think of those AM Political radio shows like Limbaugh, Hannity, Hewitt et al. They serve to brainwash people.
I am so sick of hearing men's voices on every available sound vehicle - television, radio, podcasts, travel shows, cooking shows, cop shows, ghost shows, mafia shows, rich people shows etc, etc, etc. I am sick of seeing men - mostly white men - talking about themselves and their wonderful life skills.
The white male supremacists thinkers have gotten control of all media and we have nothing but their ego-stroking junk.
Shut them off. Put their Robber Baron masters out of business. They're not worth spending our time on and have simply become white male supremacist propaganda.
21
@njglea
How is a comment such as this any different than a comment by someone on the political right who says they’re sick and tired of hearing about what “minorities” have to say about things? How is a comment such as this meaningfully different from a comment by some guy who bridles at the thought that he might have something to learn from a wise Latina?
I quit voting R for federal office (with one or two exceptions voting for Senator Hutchinson) starting in 1980 in large part because of the Southern Strategy. I voted write-ins or third party for a decade or so before beginning to generally vote for the D in federal elections.
It seems pretty clear that comments such as this represent the thoughts and feelings of a significant number of people on the left. I don’t hear mainstream Democratic office holders rebuking anyone who gives voice to this sort of opinion by responding with a ringing insistence that they represent all of their constituents without regard to race, creed, color, or gender.
Why should I not go back to voting third party or for write-in candidates until one of the major parties has the guts to make it clear that this sort of thing is out of bounds?
1
Where are the women podcasters?
8
@Irene Ornovitz Perhaps women are out in the community making an actual difference ? LWV, community farms, farmers' markets etc.
8
@Irene Ornovitz DId you miss the part where it mentioned Rogan is number two?
Remember who was number 1? I'll wait while you look it up.
3
Driving the kids to school.
1
Great point to your article.
There is a template for the Paltrows and the Oprahs and the Ferris tribe. It's so predictable. It started in the 60's with eastern religion coming to the states and of course, it gets turned into a multi billion dollar industry.
What we really need is for people to take responsibility for their communities.........to share their gifts and money with others and to figure out how to make the world a safe and peaceful place for everyone.
It's so simple! You don't even need a podcast to do it.
10
@Julie I think it was Emerson and the Transcendetalists who brought Eastern Religion to the US pre 1860, and Schopenhauer to Europe in the 1770s. Otherwise, no argument with your general premise.
Optimizing your life in America?
That requires tremendous will, self-sufficiency, self-education, capacity to go against the grain, and capacity to handle solitude. I don't pretend to be much good at living such a life, but I look at the lives of the greatest artists, scientists,--the greatest humans in all types of fields--and what they seem to have demonstrated is a clear capacity for growth, for passing through clear and developed life stages, and this process of development is evident in their work.
In other words, the greatest people, the optimal lives, grow and flourish something like plant life, you can see the growth rings in the greatest oaks of the human race. Look at the string of books of your favorite author. Look at how the Beatles developed from album to album. Now compare to the sad spectacle of the typical American life. It seems in America for all education, freedom, we actually want something of predictable, sedentary, non-growing, in fact something of obese, addicted human beings going through a repetitive pattern.
It's no wonder the themes of fasting (being able to do without any number of things not to mention the usual American diet), types of philosophy, mind altering drugs, disruptive types of behavior, etc. figure so prominently in attempts to optimize, self-actualize life in America. Everything and everybody it seems wants a piece of your mind--constantly.
To succeed you must make your mind into something only the most worthy humans can grasp.
2
"They are easy to mock . . ." and yet the author went right there, didn't she. This is a new "thing" in opinion pieces, it's a sort of apology for what's coming. A "meta" stance setting the writer above their own words.
Also, naturally the wrap up has to be about partisan politics and how it might benefit from promoting kale smoothies. What? That's easy to mock. Too easy, I won't go there.
At this point I am rather ravenously scanning the media for anything that doesn't have a reference to partisan politics buried in it. Not to be had. Trump sells.
13
Is it my imagination, or is this an all-male obsession?
5
@Kathleen Langan It seems to me that most of the podcasts are hosted by males.
We can devote our lives to keeping up with podcasts!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Why not look for simple advice that is most helpful and follow it?
For example, I like Stephen Guise's idea of "Mini-Habits".
Every day I use my exercise bike for at least 3 miles.
If I tried to keep up with all the YouTube advice, I would go crazy!
===============================================
2
Correction:
"Maybe you’ll head to the jungles of Peru, where a shaman will brew you some mescaline-laced psychedelic tea "
Author is probably referring to Ayahuasca which does NOT contain Mescaline (a cactus derived psychedelic) but from plants containing Dimethyl Tryptamine (DMT) and a Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) Inhibitor rendering the DMT orally active.. When railing against a lack of scientific rigor, you should get your facts right :-)
10
@Wreckluse
I was about to write the same thing until I read your post. I agree, both with the information and with the cautionary note about accuracy.
1
@Wreckluse If you click the link, she is actually referencing Huachuma (aka San Pedro), also from Peru - a cactus which does contain mescaline.
2
While I commend Molly Worthen for writing this article, I can't help but notice how her op-ed unflatteringly depicts these individuals is quite different from how The New York Times depicts other wellness hucksters such as Gwyneth Paltrow.
These "Podcast Bros" (as the writer terms them) should be condemned for doing exactly what Gwyneth Paltrow does, correct? Yet a week ago, Paltrow was feted by The New York Times Magazine in a fawning profile despite doctors accusing her "wellness" business as outright hucksterism and worse.
Paltrow's "GOOP" lifestyle brand has been unmasked by journalists and medical organizations as one of the most dangerous for-profit companies in existence today. Her "healthful" tips and products are quite similar to "guru" Alex Jones' "healthful" promotions on his quack site InfoWars.
This double-standard begs the question:
Why is Paltrow, who is far richer and more privileged than any of these "podcast bros," given fawning coverage in the printed media while the socially-lower-ranking "podcast bros" are not? Must they simply become more richer and more privileged to be given the same deified treatment as Paltrow in The Times?
56
@Sándor did you read the Gwyneth Paltrow article it was by no means fawning, it was even more scathing than this one, she was not "feted" she was criticised the entire article.
16
@Bearhugs
Yes, I'm referring to Taffy Akner's article in which Paltrow's seraphic words moved Akner to weep: "Later, I cried," she wrote.
Reading criticism about Times' articles is important to objective analysis. Akner's article was roundly criticized in The Guardian and other newspapers for treating Paltrow with kid-gloves.
Read those criticisms, and then contrast the tone of Akner's article with similar stories about hucksters like Doctor Oz or Alex Jones.
Since you must not remember Akner's article, here are some tonal samples:
"The In Goop Health summit was perhaps the most gracefully and elegantly executed event I’ve ever been to."
"that there was something preternatural about her [Paltrow's] talent"
"some combination of her parents’ DNA formed a genetic supernova"
"Her golden hair fell over the paper she was reading"
"cooked it herself right in front of me"
"Her dress remained white. Mine had clam juice down the front."
"Her posture was a marvel."
"So this is why people hate her?"
"She doesn’t think she’s perfect. [...] How could people hate her for that?"
... And so on and so forth. Note the tone.
The tone of Akner's article in regards to Paltrow is akin to an ode to Apollo's daughter.
Any harshness by Akner wasn't about Paltrow, but about Goop: "Ridiculous," she wrote. Yet she also wrote: "I’ve spoken to dozens of people who feel better after a detox cleanse [recommended by Goop], and science can’t really tell them why."
Again: A double standard.
More fuel on the irrationality, narcissism and commercialism that blights American society and politics, from Paltrow to Trump to William Davis to Jim and Tammy Bakker. Lifestyle cum religious gurus are as American as apple pie, all of them astonishingly good at making lots of money (think of the empires built by Will and John Kellogg and Christian fundamentalists). Healthy people don't need religion, whether the fabricated faux "lifestyle" variety or some historic variant. They're capable of thought. Those brought into the fold by proselytizers are rubes, ending up the worse for it financially, psychologically and morally. What was it Barnum said?
12
I find your snarkiness about the ads on podcasts more than a little bit disengenuous considering the absolute blizzard of advertising that the NYTimes subjects it's paid subscribers to every time we open your app or an article within it.(It's why I deleted the app and now read thru the website. No ads) An ad every 2-3 paragraphs? Banner ads, videos, and voice-overs that play without permission and gobble data plans? Constant emails to buy more products? I'll take a podcast where I can fast forward thru the ads if I choose over the constant deluge of sales emails the Times sends. This article comes across as though you're huffy because you feel they're working your side of the street. Pretty hypocritical really.
11
@TLibby, I subscribe to The Times online. Read it on my desktop, assuming that this is via the website (no?). Some ads; no videos or voice-overs playing w/o permission; no emails.
As an ex-advertising account exec, I appreciate the necessity of paid advertising. Without it, freedom of the press would not exist. Think about that.
1
"What could I say to you that would be of value, except that perhaps you seek too much, that as a result of your seeking you cannot find.
"
Hermann Hesse
21
Snake oil is a long-standing American tradition. We've had musicals and movies about rainmakers and music men, and entire religions founded by science fiction-writing hucksters. Even the Great and Powerful Oz was just a little old Man Behind the Curtain.
As for those three-minute cold showers, people whose landlords are trying to get them out of their apartments in order to triple the rent are quite familiar with that particular self-help technique.
4
@Frank F
very funny. I'm also reminded of Boyle's "The Road to Wellville".
2
The tone of the piece and choice of podcasters to highlight here is quite curious. Traditionally, self-help has been a book genre embraced by women, and books have spawned podcasts and radio shows. Why would the author not profile Hay House radio, OM Times or Sounds True radio, or women who have spiritual/inspirational/motivational podcasts? It just strikes me as odd to focus only on male podcasters in this genre when it's so female dominated.
Also, for what it's worth, in Peru, they're drinking ayahuasca up in Maccu Piccu, not something that's "mescaline-laced"--and I've noticed those who write and talk about it are almost always white men. I have no idea why that is, but it's odd to me.
I'm hoping there's a follow up piece on women's spiritual/inspirational experts in a post-Oprah-show world.
5
@N. Peske, "Spiritual/inspirational experts...." How does one gain expertise in the spiritual? Or the inspirational? Thanks for the chuckle.
Lazy article. I see what she was trying for, putting "self help" type podcasts in the context of past spiritual movements, but missed the point of podcasts like Rogan's and Jocko's. (A former Navy SEAL, selling tea?!? What?) Naturally there are some "hucksters" out there (just like in any medium or profession), but the whole point of the Rogan podcast, which he discussed in depth with (yes) the reviled Jordan Peterson, was to go beyond the "hot take" and have long form, in depth, nuanced conversations about a variety of topics with a variety of guests with very different experiences and points of view. Who else talks to Ted Nugent and Abby Martin and finds common ground with both? Should be obvious to anyone who spends more than five minutes listening that there is no dogma needed, just an open curious mind. Above all podcasting is a very useful medium, allowing you to listen to long form conversations when you can. Anyway, its easy to mock "kale smoothie drinking, ayahuasca ceremony having, bow-hunting meditating MMA fans" but seriously, that's not the whole story.
18
The "cosmic purpose" of everything that lives is to be born, reproduce, die.
That's it. That's all of it.
9
Thank you. "Cosmic purpose" what rubbish.
1
This stands in stark contrast to the dismissive, belittling article published less than a week ago about Gwyneth Paltrow doing the exact same thing... Except goop pre-dates these "bros" and has much more financial success.
Why do these "bros" deserve more favorable treatment?
No thanks, NYTimes.
(and for the record: I am no goop fan)
9
Thanks, I'll pass. If I didn't call you, about your wonderful product, do not call me. Only YOU really care about your own well being. Watch over it, judiciously.
1
"the message is creating a community."
Oh please. Marketing fantasy self-help rubbish does not create a community. Training in punching people with bare fists does not create a community.
You want to create a community? Encourage people to trust in the common good. Instead of trying to tell people that their taxes all go to helping the "undeserving takers", explain to them the benefits of public education, public institutions and infrastructure, and public healthcare. Explain to them the difficulty in creating community when 90% of the wealth belongs to the top 1%.
12
I am a LMT and would like to say–even though Molly Worthen cited it as a more silly example–"Shiatsu Alchemy" (smh) is not a recognized modality in our industry. It's the invented hodge-podge of a solo practitioner in Hollywood, who is attempting to brand his personal approach to bodywork. Sadly, this is not uncommon in our profession. However, the motivation for it is more banal than one might expect. In this field, there is a realistic plateau–we can only work so many hours, and if we go over that, we risk injuring ourselves. In order to grow as a business, practitioners often come up with alternative ways to earn revenue. Invented modalities are part of this scheme. The idea is to create a niche modality that appears to set one apart from the rest, and to begin the process of offering continuing ed classes that will ultimately reduce laborious hands-on hours. Unfortunately, this overall scheme affects us as practitioners too, as our inboxes are flooded with workshops and continuing ed courses featuring invented, unproven or unrecognized methods, an ever growing chasm of regulatory practices between each state, and a glut of excessively hokey up-sell consumer products thrust upon us from industry publications. It's frustrating for us, it's confusing for clients, and it diminishes our industry as a whole. The fitness industry is riddled with it too.
5
"Humans seem to be wired to seek salvation; even if polls suggest that more and more Americans reject traditional notions of God and skip church, it’s appealing to think that the latest lifestyle trend could be your path to existential bliss."
Personally, I've only ever sought salvation from those "people of faith" who don't seem to understand that William James was effectively the last religious philosopher for a very good reason. The "Leap of Faith" argument is the penultimate religious truth.
"Existential bliss" is a contradiction in terms, which is undoubtedly why so many of the individuals who are beginning to realize that there is no cosmic middle-man tend to gravitate towards celebrity behemoths. Alas, not even groupthink serves as an effective salve for nihilism.
Some podcasts are definitely worth listening to. Just not the ones which suggest that they can somehow make your life better.
1
I've listened to Steph Gaudreau and enjoy her podcasts. She is in the same genre as the bros but focuses on women. I appreciate her guests but also realize they need to earn a living. You can't do podcasts for free. There are some good insights. Her ability to do pull ups and lift large weights is definitely an inspiration.
1
Worthen points back as early as the 19th century for the origins of this cultural phenomena. She also cites some of the evolutionary psychology (basically, these guys resemble a "postmodern monastic order"), though she doesn't totally buy this as an explanation for why these guys are so popular. I'd only add that the popularity of podcast bros has roots in two recent historical movements. On the one hand, you have 60s-era spirit of self-exploration, human potential, and psychedelia, sheared of its radical politics. On the other hand, you have the 80s/90s elevation of entrepreneurship. These guys (Ferris, etc.) fuse these two historical movements so that each complements the weaknesses of the other. The 60s era stuff offered human depth, but often had a navel-gazing element and lacked "cash value." The crass materialism of the 80s/90s was all cash value at the expense of human depth. Now billionaire entrepreneurs drop acid and navel-gaze in order to enhance productivity and brainstorm new ideas to make money, and we wonder if it'll work for us too...
3
I applaud people improving their lives. But I wonder if we'd feel warm fuzzies about podcasters advocating strategies for being the "best white you can be." Connecting admirable qualities that are part of the human condition to the idea of "real masculinity" is thinly veiled male supremacy. Just like connecting admirable human qualities to being "white" is white supremacy. "Mastery of the ego""knowing you have nothing to prove" and "strength," for example, are not exclusive to biological males. If a skill or quality of character is developed by a biological female, that female is not being "masculine." She's being "human." Implying these qualities are "masculine" is another euphemistic way for men to continue to feel superior as "men" to those of us who are female and to adopt what have traditionally been called "feminine" qualities without--gasp!--having to use that dreaded word. And yes, language is important. None of us would (hopefully) be comfortable with podcasts teaching "real white-ininity." We still have a long way to go before our culture stops erroneously seeing Humanity in pink and blue.
8
At least they don't preach hatred and bigotry like the Christians, but they're still snake oil salesmen. And if someone needs to tell you how to "optimize your life" (an idiotic expression only a true huckster would come up with), then it's not "self-help," is it?
What I find particularly amusing is that the author/shill starts off mocking various forms of "self-help" before presenting "the one true self-help!" It's the religious propaganda model, updated.
1
These podcasts offer some useful information, a lot of chatter, and some self-promotion. The best way to approach them is to listen with with critical ears and take from them what speaks to you. Do not stop taking your meds or radically change your diet based on something you hear. Do your research, experiment, and see what works for you.
4
There is no shortage of people wanting to sell you a better life, and if it works for you, more power to you. I’d rather talk with my wife and figure out where our next mini-vacation will be to ease the stress of our busy lives.
8
I regularly listen to many of these podcasts, and I think they are providing a valuable service. They have to earn a living and are offering their content for free. I don't think that anyone would agree with all of these caster's opinions, but I use these really as a regular reminder that self-improvement is possible through hundreds of different avenues.
6
As a regular listener of both Joe Rogan and Aubrey Marcus I don’t think Ms. Worthen fully understands their message nor do I think she’s taken the time to adequately understand their message. Do they sell their own products? Absolutely. However, their message is not of a huckster who says, “I’m the only one who can fix it”. In fact, it’s the opposite! They want you to take responsibility for your life and they continually preface their messages by saying try what works for you, not someone else. And please, I would love to know how a cold shower, meditating, or eating kale creates financial gains for any of these “podcast bros”. In school, we’re taught to eat healthy, but when someone successful reminds us that a life of processed food will only hurt our health it’s somehow a con. A cold shower, for example, is miserable when it’s occurring, but when you walk out you feel great. Not just physically, but mentally because you accomplished something. That feeling of success - albeit minor in this case - certainly permeates to other areas of life. They are advocating for small changes that when taken in whole make a large difference. Never once have I heard them try and sell anything close to a “magic pill”.
Many people - myself and some friends included - have found tremendous benefits from these podcasts. I have more energy, feel more relaxed, sleep better, improved relationships, and am overall much happier. And no, I haven’t given a nickel to these “hucksters”.
66
The ratio of time spent on advertising and promotion of their own products to content should reveal the true motivation behind many of these podcasts. That said, they do sometimes hit on good content and friendly conversation.
1
I find it a bit unsettling the vitriol directed toward these podcasts and their moderators and listeners. I’ ve never listened to one of them, but the positive message and information as described in this article seem very worthwhile to at the least gain exposure to. If listeners actually incorporate pieces of what they hear into their lives (compassion thru Buddhism, better health via diet, questioning the pervasive consumerism of our culture, etc.) so much the better. I wonder who is happier: the audience described in this article or Fox viewers?
41
As with TED Talks, the medium is the message. They've identified the right content (inoffensive, vague universalism) and pegged it to the right medium (solitary podcast audience) that give it a gravitas it usually lacks.
I'm not knocking that people find fulfillment in this. We should all seek (and hopefully find) that. I just question how durable this apotheosis really is.
8
I’ll stick with the oldies: This American Life, On Being, Mich Jezeritch on Letters and Politics...long form interviews on good old radio, with erudition and authenticity entwined.
4
To maintain a peace of mind, I pay no attention to Internet ads and advice, and hang up on all telephone calls of unsolicited advertisement. I wish there were a means to disable all such hackers by remote control.
2
@Tuvw Xyz
You're in luck!
1) install an ad blocker
2) disconnect your land line
3
Snake oil salesman in the past, nonsense spewers now. Follow their ideas to where they belong, into the garbage dump of phoney ideas and pseudo science designed to extract money from their followers They know the secret, the circus man had it right; "a fool is born every moment." "Blacaman the Good, the Vendor of Miracles" (Gabriel Marquez)is a story that might help those followers see the light.
2
Well respectfully, at least they’re thinking for themselves, are pondering what their lives are about, what true success might mean to them, and contemplating whether they’ll be able to find it in this lifetime.
Elsewhere, the indoctrinated (depleting) masses who find comfort in organized religion are content not to answer life’s bigger questions.
Life’s so much easier isn’t it, when a mysterious and uncertain promise ensures your everlasting happiness? Some might prefer to be curious “bros”, rather than faithful sheep of the flock.
2
Religion—the most intense human embrace of moral values of any kind (cf Pecorino & Ferre) is what the French call a constant of the human spirit. Nice to see this confirmed by atheists and anticléricales.
I didn't see this confirmed by atheists. Where did you come up with that? My guess would be altruism masquerading as religion is what's behind moral values.
1
I was hoping this would somehow, in a fantasy world, feature the McElroys (Justin, Travis, and Griffin + dad Clint), a family of white men in podcasting that has shirked bro-ness, even though their original product was an advice show. Their ability to focus on kindness, instead of "real strength, real masculinity,” has created tribe upon tribe devoted to their brand and philosophy. They have morphed and changed as people and broadcasters, abandoning an original premise because of their own loyalty to fans (Rose Buddies, a bachelorette podcast, post sexual assault issues) or gave them a place to acknowledge their lack of knowledge on LGBT tropes even as they wrote stories with key LGBT characters (The Adventure Zone, after falling for the Bury Your Gays trope).
Most importantly, these guys pull goofs off consistently that could equally make a small-town gamer or a big city feminist laugh equally hard. They make everyone feel welcome, and even did so without taking sides post-election. I love these guys.
1
Modern human beings sure are lonely.
8
All opinions have followers. The internet amplifies this, as we now know the fate of incels , the sexless men around the globe striking out against women and the void. The popularization of these Joe Rogan gurus reveals an isolation in their listeners. People are timid, and will listen to any connection. I wonder how much of the attraction includes drug addiction, in the same way that craft beer masks alcohol addiction? Finding community is always a good thing. This trend will be monetized by the right and far right, by the NRA, by evangelicals. A new sub-branch of "genre podcasts" will be born.
Ok gang, let's go over it again what history has taught us.
Since the Stone Age, we know that doing and especially eating every thing in moderation is the key to a healthier and longer life albeit a bit boring.
Wine, women(men), drugs and song will give you the greatest physical pleasure in life but you usually end up like Jimi Hendrix and die at 27. Very few people want this.
Exercising 24/7, eating fruit and veggies and smoothies all day, no desserts, no white bread, no booze etc. will help you live a little longer than average like Jack LaLanne did till age 95 but other then he and a few others nobody wants to live that way either.
For every new true advancement in longer and or happier life there are countless scams, frauds, theories, hucksters, snake oil salespeople, gurus, self appointed gods etc. that will rip you off.
12
It turns out to be an interesting and informative article, but why disparage the subjects from the beginning by calling them "bros"? It's also inaccurate, since there is little overlap between what these guys are doing and so-called "bro" culture. I guess it was meant to be humorous, but it just sounds ignorant.
57
@Tim "Why call them bros?" Because they, themselves, reference gender. “It’s self-mastery of the ego, knowing you have nothing to prove. That’s real strength, real masculinity.” If you're going to fallaciously "genderize" what are simply human qualities, be prepared to be hit with a gendered label.
6
this is why Trump will win again in 2020. How many of his supporters are in the audience Molly refers to? Yup, that's right. American's optimism has a less positive flip side, namely naivete. Those who have the luxury of indulging in these Podcasts and their messages are either much higher up Maslow's Hierarchy than the average American or members of fringe groups. While some of the techniques and other advice peddled may well have merit, the longevity of the messenger is predicated on regularly changing the advice. So in reality, simple messages about being present, eating healthily and exercising, morph into ever-changing advice about supplements, nutrients, "superfoods", length, type, intensity and focus of exercise and form of meditation and mindfulness. As is always the case, if we dig deep enough, there is a pony in there. But a lot of manure needs to be shoveled to find it.
15
Another contradiction with this scene: The calls to mindfulness come during hour-plus podcasts that the hosts have to know people are listening to while doing other things.
15
The 19th century also had a work for it: flimflam.
15
Let's not forget the original podcast Bro: Oprah.
37
"There is a sucker born every minute." (attributed to P.T. Barnum).
"A fool and his money are soon parted." (Old English Proverb).
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” (H.L. Mencken).
Peddling Snake Oil is an old and profitable business. (In fact, the Oxford English Dictionary defines snake oil as "a quack remedy or panacea.")
Shall we continue
16
As I read this piece I was reminded of a favorite quote from G. K. Chesterton: "When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”
Dr. Worthen, thank you for sharing your perspective on this current trend of which I was previously unaware. I had scanned the title but was not going to read the article until I saw your byline. I learned much from your Great Courses lectures on the History of Christianity.
6
@Phillip Maiden - It's clear however that belief in any of the various options we have for 'God' also exemplifies the capability to believe anything.
4
It's Wayne's World, it's Wayne's World
It's party time, it's excellent
It's Wayne's World, it's Waynes World
It's party time, it's excellent
I mean, really. Are these "podcast bros" any different than that?
26
@Mr. Cool
Well, the podcast bros are less entertaining than Wayne's World. And podcast bros aren't nearly as hilarious.
5
@Mr. Cool Yes.
To contend that long-form podcast interviews are increasingly a substitute for faith, even though their listeners have adopted something approaching liturgy, is to miss the more proximate gap their medium fills. The biggest gap being filled is purely one of curiosity. Be it ESPN commentary, increasingly condescending and neurotic Op-Ed narratives, or the terribly stressful and rushed jousts between pundits on cable news, those who are curious, self-actualizing, and maybe even a little insecure are looking for less vapid, arrogant, and sensational content with which to inform themselves.
I challenge anyone here to sit down and watch a ten minute CNN panel after listening to a few of Joe Rogan, Tim Ferris, or Jocko Willink's discussions with scientists, investors, veterans, or athletes for a week. It will be a nearly unbearable ordeal. More numerous than those disaffected by traditional faith are those who seek alternatives to the purely commercial and manufactured news outlets of the 80's.
Nonetheless, this piece brings up an important point: that long-form podcasting has (surprisingly) brought evolutionary biology and psychology (among other things) into the spotlight, helping millions make peace with their inner drives by considering the potential good and evil that they can unleash depending on cultural constraints. This is far from spiritual revelation, but it is an important sphere of thought that conventional media in unable to address due to its program format.
98
This was a very well written and interesting article. I wasn’t even aware of these podcasts, although I have heard of Tim Ferriss. I wonder if this is a uniquely American phenomenon due to our ‘be anything you want to be’, heroic individual becoming a success, must find your passion, etc. Maybe people would be happier if they found joy in a strong (and positive ) group to feel loved, respected and needed. Nothing wrong with sharing ideas that helped others’ success, but this seems so lonely. And of course, it is for money.
5
I can only speak for the Joe Rogan Experience, as that is the only one I have experience with, but its often a great ride. The guests are eclectic, varied, quixotic, and strangely human. I say strangely, because in most other mediums people don't seem to come across as honestly.
The three hour conversations feel more like my younger days spent drinking beer in a friends basement discussing various topics until we succumbed to sleep. The conversation doesn't have notes, nor prompts, nor a set course. It meanders, sometimes infuriatingly so, and often there are tropes that emerge, the giant lions that hunt water buffalo that Joe seems obsessed over serve as an example.
The advice Joe and many of his guests dispense is not usually aimed at pushing product, but are often simply reflections of their own experience. To paraphrase Burke, experience and example are humanities true academy. Would I always trust it? Certainly not, I have no interest in psychedelic drugs, 24 hour fasts, or doing stand up comedy, but I'm better for having heard about it.
Its not self-help, its not a substitute for true physical community, but its always a blast to encounter other listeners like I did at a networking event. There's a strange connection, knowing that others have also heard the giant lions who hunt water buffalo story one too many times are out there.
57
Allow me to offer you all "free" advice about optimizing your life without all this podcast nonsense:
Go to Italy, sit down in a simple little cafe or Enoteca with your partner, friends or loved ones, order a nice glass of wine with some appetizers and soak in the life you wish you had in the U.S. where everything is for sale (enlightenment, happiness, health?) or is spoon-fed to you by egotistical nobodies.
103
Italy is hardly a poster child for sanity! Look at who the Italians elect to lead them.
12
@mrfreeze6
Italy? A country run by a coalition of nihilists and neo-Nazis? Not sure if an Italian cafe is the right setting. Maybe an Amsterdam coffee house?
18
A true sage would be fulfilled by instead just buying a cold Pepsi at Walmart and drinking it in his car.
4
Seriously ?
Just like the days when every talent-free clown with a video camera made a TV show, that culminated with that intolerable purple dinosaur - the same thing is happening with "podcasts".
For brainless content, or even thoughtful content, it is as good a medium as any.
News, however, has no place in a podcast.
The damage that sound-bite-journalism has done to this country is severe. We don't need more.
10
@Objectivist
Not sure if you have listened to podcasts before because a good podcast, Rogan is a decent example, is often long format and discussion based. It is the opposite of sound bite journalism! The reason for the popularity has just as much to do with reasonable people looking to escape watered down news on print media and screaming talking heads on cable news as it is the self help/self improvement mantra.
2 hour thoughtful, deliberate and calm discussion split between the issues of our time, what makes ethics and whether a metaphysics really is out there....its a reminder that interesting, reasonable people are actually out there!
45
@Objectivist You've really missed the point of the article. I'm not a fan of these podcasts but my girlfriend listens to them; they are actually an antidote to sound-bite journalism. While they sometimes proffer faux-spirituality and can be a little cheesy, the point is that they are not brainless, they are actually thoughtful. They are giving people an avenue out of our toxic public culture.
9
“mistrusting ideology and “identitarian” politics. “
It’s nice to learn something everyday. This new to me word, in quotes above, is a good one.
I hope to see more of it.
Never thought I’d see escaping from ego tied into dropping out of identity politics! Wow, lm learning a lot here today.
2
The real, lasting, beautiful, lesson of The Wizard Of Oz is that it was inside you all along.
We've seen whole rainbows of self help hucksters coloring the landscape. The Maharishis came and went, then Werner Erhard's EST, and his dark other, Jim Jones, Scientology, and if we want to go deeper, all organized religion.
Lasting peace comes from within. Why do we keep trying to acquire it second hand?
63
@Sera
Lasting peace is having no need of pretending life is anything more than a short trip between birth and death.
Not many humans can face the fact they are a blip in time.
7
Worthen's podcast descriptions are useful warnings about too many hyped microphones in the hands of 'dabblers', mixing and remixing the latest psychological studies.
Better to visit the local meditation center, relaxed yoga studio, or invite your neighbors over for tea.
12