I'm gonna scroll through these comments til I find one that can explain what "octo thorpe" means.
6
Oops!! I had a brain fart and wrote there was no example of using # as sharp!! What was i thinking?? Well, i was thinking the clue or answer would involve musical notation...and blanked on the other uses/meanings.
So ... it’s just plain old perfect, as far as I’m concerned!!
I loved this—and got the theme pretty quickly. Seriously, i think this is my all-time favorite puzzle! (Although...I’ve only been doing these for about two years...a newbie in comparison to most of the folks here...)
I was disappointed, however, that something cluing for # as sharp wasn’t included. That would have made it pure perfection! (And I’m not going to read all 210 comments to find out if someone else already wrote this!)
The Bonus Game has ended after 24 hours.
*Seven* posters independently reported the redundancy.
Hat-tip to RHD in Dallas for the first report, in the third thread last night, the most popular post of the comments.
Barry Ancona
New York NYJuly 26
BONUS GAME:
Guess the total number of posters who will independently report in these comments that PIN number is redundant.
Reply14 Recommend
4
Nice first NYT puzzle, sir! I was doing rebuses before I realized I needed a #. Very enjoyable for a Thursday.
:)
2
Okay, okay, okay. There were flaws in the puzzle. Too much short XWDese. The redundancy of PIN# to those bothered by it.
But it was jolly, jolly fun!
Got the two-way# right away in the 20 square, and could already (figuratively) hear the screaming. I didn't keep track, so can't take part in Barry's Bonus.
(And so many people call *me* a purist!)
Never heard of MANCALA, and not real clear on yoga terminology, so ASANAS was problematic.
Had ??E when I got to [Yellow or gray], so entered HUE. But my RAZOR-# wit showed me the error of my ways. Still had to think for a couple of beats, but at least AGE gave me the unknown AMGEN.
So, Nate (hi RiA), congratulations on a fine debut, welcome to the constructors' stable, and let the poo-pooers poo-poo and the nitpickers pick their nits. Come back soon.
5
FUN puzzle. I also learned # means "space" in editing.
Love learning something new every day.
Congratulations, Mr. Cardin -- hope to see more of your creations.
3
It's crazy how sometimes you just "click" with a puzzle... I plowed through this one in record Thursday time... and since I filled the SE corner first knew the "trick" right away. I wish all Thursdays were like this one! :-)
A small nit though... an ATM PIN number means "Personal Identification Number", so adding Number to PIN is redundant...
3
Love rebuses! Got it right away with 1D and 20A, and sped along till cell 48. What to do? (Unfamiliar with "#" meaning "space.") Enter the underscore symbol (Shift-dash)? SPACE (and NUMBER at cell 20)? Got 36D and 57A and the "Aha!" moment arrived, confirmed by the revealer 70A (Agree with some others: 71A not necessary). This was a rebus I'm not used to: Only other puzzle I've done with a "symbolic" rebus was one months ago using dashes "-".
Agree with many others that this was a Tuesday-level puzzle (Tuesday <-> Thursday?). Only unknowns were AMANDA, MANCALA, SIZERS, and, of course, OCTO THORPE. Set a new record time, but have to admit to a "cheat": Had iHAKA for 53D ("i" from iMON at 53A). Googled the name just to see if it was right and was asked "Do you mean Chaka Khan?" Aarrggh! Of course!
Excellent, fun, clever debut puzzle. Kudos, Mr. Cardin!
1
So I thought PIN number a thing you find at the edge of a cast shadow. {Someone find me an un-cast shadow and I'll bake them a key lime #CAKE of their very own.)
I started out with a rebus PIN(NO)CRUNCHER, and went on to DOG(LB)CAKE, thinking it cool to have different abbrevs to rebus. It wasn't till Square 57, unable to come up with an abbrev for [SHARP], that I saw the Grand Unifying Theory. Symbolically speaking. Took the long way around, obviously,but I did enjoy the scenic route. (Much like BarryA's train-ride.)
Not crazy about the RED ACT on parade, but I did [L]IKE A hint of A MUL[L]ET: all business up front, and a party in the back. (The latter isn't really true, even figuratively, but sometimes I just can't throw a line away.
Not a bad day when I can pull OCTO THORPE out of mothballs, think of the SIMONES (mere et fille), whisper Khan CHAKA Khan under my breath, and learn about the DOO DAH Parade.
ChARMING and disARMING, Mr Cardin. Y'all hurry back, now, hear?
2
@Leapfinger I think 19A is supposed to be "Redact", aka black out parts of a document to mask sensitive contents... :-)
1
Okay, Leapy, you asked for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdtcItLjPPU
(an uncast shadow)
@Steve F, you're right, of course. Thank you! I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
@David C, thank you also. That was very replenishing. As a bonus, it was followed by a duet with Ana Carolina of "The Very Thought of You", an early favourite of mine. I had thought along the lines of Peter Pan's wayward shadow. So sorry you aren't still nearby to come to Panera's on Saturday; I'll have to mail you the #cake.
PS: Instead of a #cake, I just made the Peach Polenta CAKE recently carried in the NYT. I used toasted sliced almonds with the polenta and it was *ausergewohnlich* gut!!
My first (and probably last) Queen Bee! The final word was, appropriately, n----t. :)
3
@audreylm
and Elke
I'm stuck at 23 words with 82 pts.
Being a sometime one , I got n----t fairly early.
So close but no banana-darn. Maybe I need some honey.
But there is tomorrow ......
Today’s and yesterday’s Bees shared a word, a silly little word that I stabbed immediately into today’s Bee. It was the one that kept me from getting QB yesterday.
1
@BM
I got it yesterday, but that was the last remaining word I needed to make QB today. After staring at it for hours, your comment reminded me of it...so thanks for helping me get the crown!
Fun one! I always love a Thursday puzzle.
My momentary foolishness: "Huh? Pound-shooter? I guess so!"
2
a) TIC-TAC-TOE, anyone?
b) New dumb feature: unspecified delay now imposed between comments. "User submitted a comment recently. Please wait before submitting another one."
3
@Robert Michael Panoff
RMP, that's code for"Go ahead and refresh, and you won't have to wait" and "If you wait --as directed -- there's no telling when or whether you'll get thegreen light".
Just another adorable new wrinkle.
2
Better to have to wait a bit than to have your posts end up in the wrong thread.
[Much better with neither.]
@Leapfinger
Except that "refreshing" sends you off to the beginning of the Comments section so that you have to go searching for where you were in the first place.
and @Barry, Amen!
I thought the clue for URN was clever, but I have to point out that I have had many good cups of joe from those ubiquitous hotel containers.
1
Yay! I love Thursday puzzles. #CAKE was my revealer. The one, the only possibility there.
To all of the PIN#-acronym redundancy folks: the reason we say it is that PIN as a word requires too much context to be readily, specifically understood. Perhaps we could all start calling them PI Numbers?
6
@Ma AM. A PI number would always be aound 3.14
4
Thanks, I feel like that was a softball waiting to be whacked.
2
C'MON folks, including OCTOTHORPE and HASHTAG in a puzzle with answers using the related punctuation mark is worth some gluey fill!
17
Here to agree.
2
I do the puzzles on my ipad. The keyboard is on the right, but I don't understand how to enter the #, etc. keys.
@Betty sullivan, on the iPhone, you press the "More" button on the bottom left to bring up numbers and symbols. I don't have my iPad in front of me; so I can't tell you exactly what to do there.
@Betty sullivan
I just checked on my iPad, and the app has a button labeled "123" which contains the numbers and symbols, and then the button label changes to "ABC" to get back.
2
Cute puzzle that kept me puzzled for a while.
I had hoped to quickly find out what the fourth meaning (not number, space, or pound) of the octothorpes is. And I probably will from reading the comments. But I most definitely did not find out quickly.
Boy, was that ever a mental blind spot. Not too sharp.
4
@polymath
think music: D# (as opposed to D Flat).
RMP,
I trust your reply to PM's initial post, time-stamped as more recent than his reply, was submitted before the latter appeared...
I’m always baffled when I read the comments and others complain about crosswordese in a crossword puzzle. I’m actually always baffled when others just complain. #complainergonnacomplain
As for pin#number (# as in space, which was new for me) I suggest to wikipedia RAS syndrome, and like its (as in pin#) presence in a puzzle about the idiomatic usages of #.
5
Certainly inventive and interesting, but too easy for a Thursday puzzle. I typically struggle on Thursday but I sort of breezed thru this. I had more trouble with Tue. and Wed. Just because it has an interesting gimmick doesn't make it a Thursday puzzle.
5
1 Down: PIN# ... fyi: PIN is the acronym for Personal Identification Number, so the answer is Personal Identification Number Number. Stop it. Just Stop it.
8
@robert hurst
I've lost count of how many people have mentioned that
1
Suejean,
I'm keeping track for the Bonus Game.
Never underestimate serendipity. During a visit to the Met Museum of Art a few months ago I made my mandatory visit to their bookstore and found “Shady Characters: The Secret Life of Punctuation, Symbols and other Typographical Marks” by Keith Houston — which I snapped up since it was also on sale. And of course it has an entire chapter on the 54A-62A.
Delightful puzzle. The ”octo” part refers to the eight line segment ends bounding the symbol, much like those half dozen bounding the asterisk. So in a sense it’s also an 8-pointed star.
Also a missed opportunity to refer to tic-tac-toe.
All is not lost: there are two perpendicular grid bars on each of the four puzzle edges.
3
@Dr W Similarly, I just happened to listen this week to a 99% Invisible podcast, and they discussed the Octothorpe, so I as well was ready for this puzzle! BTW, it is a great podcast on all aspects of design in our lives.
Loved, loved this puzzle! I’m old enough to know about pound, number and sharp; young enough to get hashtag; and was completely ignorant about the space in typography. I’d forgotten octothorp, too.
Thanks for a wonderful Thursday!
10
Eons ago it was "hashmark".
2
@Dr W
You beat me to it, Dr W. Although just barely. We both showed up late to the party.
But ... "eons"? Surely just a few decades.
My younger daughter and I were doing the puzzle together. 62A brought back pleasant memories for us. My wife and I took our daughters and my mother to the Lehigh Valley. I drove my mom through some spots in the Poconos we'd been to when I was a child, while my wife a daughters rode rented bikes from White Haven to Jim THORPE. Two railroads used to run through the valley; one line remains, the other is a bike trail. We met up at the depot in the picture and had dinner at the restaurant across the street.
http://www.lgsry.com/
3
That was fun! Maybe because I caught on to the trick fairly early. Although, I have to admit the use of # for space was only uncovered by process of elimination. But, I enjoyed learning 'octothorp'. Waiting for the ampersand puzzle now.
3
William,
You mean waiting for the *next* ampersand puzzle.
https://www.xwordinfo.com/Crossword?date=3/18/2007
1
@Barry Ancona
You're our resident crossword historian!
No, Ron, I'm not, but I happened to recall doing that particular puzzle, so I thought I'd find it and offer the link. There are others here who do qualify as crossword historians.
When my kids were in elementary school in the 90s, MANCALA was a very popular game for about a year and a half--long enough for us to buy a set and have it at our house for years after my daughter quit playing it.
I agree with others on down (up?) the thread who concede that HASH TAG and PIN # are with us to stay, whether we like it or not. Language is what people say to each other, and these terms are what people say to each other.
I didn't think about OCTO THORPE until I read Deb's column, but I recognized it from somewhere deep in my memory. Now there's a coinage that went nowhere!
I'm not as annoyed by Julian at the copious crossword-glue, but I must admit that I find clues like 39D, "alphabet quartet," to be almost unbelievably lame when I see them. Meaning that I almost always say to myself, "I can't believe it; surely it can't be that?" But then it is.
But otherwise an amusing puzzle.
5
Not as annoyed AS Julian. I wasn't annoyed by Julian at all.
2
I'm glad my fellow pedants pointed out the PIN NUMBER at the ATM machine, which unfortunately set the tone for this grid.
Puzzle was simply far too easy for a Thursday. I didn't have to consider the theme at all. I just went around the grid and filled it in; there was no puzzling over any clues. It took me a few moments to go back and remove the typed-in rebuses and put in hashes, and I also stopped to talk to my kids a bit, so solve time ended up over 8 minutes.
I usually love rebuses because you get that aha when they're revealed, but this one was just sort of lying there in the open, no digging required.
25D, clever clue, appreciated.
Learning moments: 54A (octothorp!) and 18D (didn't know the difference between supine and prone; thought they were synonyms).
Okay, so a ridiculous amount of crossword glue today, starting with the obvious RSTU, III, and RATA. There's also AMTS, IDO, PDAS, ITO, EDUC, ESTE, CHEM, OTRA. A small number of these types of entries is inevitable in order to build a good puzzle. But CMON, this is ridiculous.
Also, for the two SPACE entries, I would have like to see different contexts used, like space bar or Space Invaders. Both here referred to outer space.
5
Congratulations on your dazzling debut, Mr. Cardin, I hope your students are duly impressed and have put you on a pedestal today. You deserve it!
Loved learning OCTOTHORPE enough to even forgive REFARM lurking in the same corner.
I rate Nate RAZOR#!
8
Hang on to that pedestal, please; I'm guessing that Nate and his students are on summer vacation.
I thought refarm was a stretch, too, and agree with the assessment that RSTU was a cheap shot.
2
@BA
Perhaps the students are spending the summer in REFARM School.
Wonderfully groan-worthy.
I needed a fun, fast Thursday after struggling with this week's earlier puzzles and feeling unsmart. Used the rebus key to spell out 'space' because I never knew the octothorpe (a new word for me) could be used for this word. Incidentally, my spell checker is redlining both 'unsmart' AND 'octothorpe'!
3
BONUS GAME:
Guess the total number of posters who will independently report in these comments that PIN number is redundant.
22
42! (With apologies to Douglas Adams)
3
Yeah, so when I read the clue for 22a I was all like "what piece of crosswordese could this be?" I only got that from, you know, the crosses (and if I were emperor of the universe I would absolutely ban "yeah, so" as an introductory phrase. Drives me crazy every time I hear it).
Anyway, I wouldn't call it easy but it came together reasonably smoothly. Didn't know what an OCTOTHORPE was, but I did recognize the word and had enough of the other letters to suggest it. Also didn't know that '#' could mean 'space' but that one was too obvious in both directions to miss it.
My biggest holdup was in the northeast. I've never done a JUMBLE and have managed to avoid even noticing them. MADLIB was a total unknown and I'm not up on Yoga. So ASANAS was either a vague memory or total guess and once I saw USE, JAR finally dawned on me and I managed to work out the rest.
Thought it was a nice puzzle.
2
@Rich in Atlanta, there was plenty of other crosswordese in this puzzle.
@Rich in Atlanta
So, Rich, how about starting to answer a tv or radio interview question with So... ?
1
@Doggydoc Yes, it's just as bad. 'Yeah' is just frosting on the cake. And I am starting to hear more and more professional journalists do it also.
And while I'm up, let's talk about 'literally,' whose meaning a growing number of reporters also don't seem to understand. I remember watching a CNN reporter a few years ago covering wildfires in California saying on-air, "I can literally feel the heat from the flames behind me!" As opposed to figuratively feeling the heat?
But nothing tops another reporter covering some disaster (also within the last few years) who described the scene as "literally unbelievable."
Whoa! 96 Comments already? (It's 7:30 here)...
Okay: We are NOT fooled; someone has already been at that pound cake. "Ready for slicing," my eye. Done been.
Next: Even Scrabble says TWINY is a word; but not Wee Bee. Genius @ 21 words, 70 pts. (How many more words are there? Because I'm at a standstill....
Oh, the Real Puzzle! Wow. Thanks to starting with 68A, I tumbled to the idea of the theme early. One of the symbols, eh? Plenty to choose from! But 1A/D gave me the solution: 70/71A. And the rest was a romp.
New to me: I did not know the symbol could be used for [SPACE], and apparently I've never been exposed to its true name!
Nate Cardin, eh? Must visit Xword Info and see if our new Constructor has submitted a photo. Breakfast can wait.
1
Yep. There's a photo, along with the info that Mr. Cardin is a science teacher. Yay! (One of the nice things about being in Special Ed is that you get to teach all of the subjects. A couple of my jobs were team-teaching situations, allowing me the math and science slots. )
@Mean Old Lady I had 20 words but 74 points so we must have something different happening.
@Chris Atkins
Maybe if we combine our brains we'd get QB status...
Lovely
I had fun with this puzzle. But note. PIN is personal identification number. So we are all actually saying number twice.
Oddly compared to others, I knew Octothorpe and the Olympian clue led me to my fastest Thursday solve ever.
2
Clever and fun but too easy for Thursday, although I only got "octo-thorpe" from the down clues, having never heard of it before. It's thought that the term originated with telephone co. workers when touch tone phones first appeared with the # button. The octo supposedly refers to the 8 points on the #; believed that the thorpe may have been a phone co. employee's name?!
1
As has been said, a fun if fast Thursday. Saw the symbol immediately at PIN # but wasn't sure until later whether it was the symbol or the letters "no". LIKE a few others, I never heard of OCTO THORPE, nor did I realize that # = SPACE. Glad to learn both. I DUNNO about REFARM ... CMON!!
2
@CS
Yeah, I forgot to mention cringing at that one. It's called 'succession planting,' Friends.
2
Refarming apparently has some usage, but neither it nor the "farm" root in the term have anything to do with agriculture (see etml. ref. to farm *out*).
http://www.yourdictionary.com/refarming
(My daughter has only lived in Iowa for one year, but she shot 66A a dirty look.)
@Mean Old Lady
I had R__A__ so I put ROTATE (as in rotating crops).
Congratulations to Mr. Cardin for constructing a very entertaining Thursday puzzle. Before the haze cleared I had convinced myself that 1D was plural and that 20A was arcane slang for a bookkeeper--"scruncher"!
I also enjoy learning words like octothorpe from the puzzle.
Nicely done.
1
I used to do the Jumble at the coffee shop, and because I didn't want to write in the paper they let us read, I would use one of the wooden coffee stirrers to write on a receipt if I couldn't just work it out in my head. Then I discovered the online site with color/animation/music.
NYT Crossword/Jumble/Spelling Bee/KenKen/Set are really starting to eat into my addictive lifestyle. What to do about the puzzle of having too many puzzles in your life?
11
FWIW, Microsoft's programming language, C#, is referred to as C Sharp when conversing....
2
@BK Hmm.... And I always thought that Microsoft was trying to POUND out the competition.
@dlr
I thought Microsoft made a HASH of it.
Actually, C# is probably one of the best thing they did for themselves.
@Wen
Agree...very powerful and versatile...
It's a tight theme and clever theme idea. It's also ambitious -- I count a whopping 66 theme-related squares. Do you leave out OCTOTHORPE and HASH TAG to make the grid cleaner and more elegant, or do you keep them in because the former is interesting/quirky and the latter because there would have been an outcry over it's absence? I for one am glad those two answers were included.
Nice clues for URN and AGE, and a few more clever clues would have sparked this puzzle up, IMO. Two random thoughts:
* ASANA is pronounced with its first syllable emphasized, not the second, as many do.
* The DOO DAH parade is a Pasadena tradition that started a wacky alternative to the staid Rose Bowl parade. It has featured entrants such as The Shopping Cart Drill Team and the 20-Man Memorial Invisible Man Marching Drill Team. It has spread to other cities and the Wikipedia article on it is a fun read.
4
@Lewis
Between the *A*SANA and the JUMBLE, I thought this was definitely an I Love Lewis puzzle.
(If an explanation is needed, you often refer to words in the grid if you read in JUMBLE-style.)
2
Very quick (and fun) for a Thursday but due to a total fluke sometime in my past when I did a Thursday in 4:44, I will clearly NEVER beat my best (my average time is significantly higher). ALSO MY MAYBE FIRST AND ONLY CHANCE FOR QUEEN BEE?? Am at 23 words, 77 points. Will one of you queens (lol) tell me how close I am? It's the first Bee in my experience with only vowel (besides Y) which somehow makes it seem more conquerable.
I wish we had a way to erase our ancient online solving history. I was an intermittent solver for years, but became more committed about two years ago. I'd like to my stats for just the recent period.
I also have a odd best time under two minutes on a Sunday. Never happened. In the early years of the online NYTimes Crossword, there was a bug where you could get an incorrect timing if you nearly completed the puzzle on one device, and then resumed to finish on a different device. The bug was the timer ignored your time on the first device.
@David
I had a similar insane Sunday best time, and the NYT support people deleted it for me. I felt silly asking, but it's apparently easy for them to do, so that's an option if you care to fix it.
@audreylm I'm at 23 words, with 82 points, which makes me thing the total is 24 words with each of us having a word that the other doesn't?
My AHA moment came immediately, so was feeling quite clever, a bit disappointing that everyone found the puzzle so easy. That doesn't take away from the fun I had doing the puzzle however. Very clever indeed and I hope we have more from Nate.
5
Easy SB, for a change. I quit at Genius (15 words/58 points), but might go back to it later to try for QB.
1
I loved it! Not least because I managed it all on my own! A rare thing for me on a Thursday. I too would appreciate not being disabused of the notion it’s because I’m getting smarter. Hesitated over THORPE because I thought my Aussie instincts would lead me astray. Happy to be proved wrong on the crossings. Thought it a very clever rebus.
4
Take it from me. It is indisputable evidence that you have become much smarter.
1
Bell Labs has been the source of many technical innovations including the transistor, the laser, and electromagnetic pulse suppression following the detonation of an atomic bomb. There are two innovations, however, that no one who ever worked at the Labs will admit to. One is the Picturephone and the other is the word "Octothorpe."
Although the symbol has been around for hundreds of years, its use did not become widespread until it appeared on the C-4 key of the TouchTone telephone dial in 1961 and its public debut in 1965. People were not sure what to call it and the folks at the Labs were tasked with choosing a name. The selection of "Octothorpe" as the official name ensured that people still are not sure what to call it. No matter how hard Ma Bell tried to get its operators to say it, they would not because no one knew what it meant. The most common reference at the time was "tic-tac-toe."
4
We should start calling the Twitter usages Octothorpes. It will be fun, promise.
3
@Tom Wild
Probably will, Tom.
Any possibility it will shut the Twits up?
No idea what Octo Thorpe is but I’m glad Jim Thorpe was mentioned. One of the greatest athletes this country ever produced.
5
and Elke
A rebus puzzle that I discover quickly is a great puzzle IMO.
Of course , first I had to deal with 5A- a 'stone capturing board game'--I thought that somebody had developed a table curling game...(in my defense, I am Canadian).
Like others , I filed MANCALA for future SB use.
And OCTOTHORPE I expect to see one day in the mother of all SBs .
This was fun and educational (Barry, thanks for that Bell Lab history link).
4
Is this true? "two most commonly used names for this symbol, OCTO/THORPE..."
I'm in my sixties and reasonably well-read and I'd never heard of this word.
9
@PaulSFO
You're right. I didn't even catch that Deb said that. The most commonly used names are the places where they were used - pound, hash tag, and number. OCTOTHORPE is definitely not most commonly used.
1
@Wen
Just a guess here, but I imagine that in common usage the symbol is called "numnber sign" or "pound sign" or whatever is appropriate to the context. OTOH, if the symbol itself is the subject of discussion, OCTOTHORPE may very well be the most frequently used term.
Ack! PIN number? Really? I’m used to the Times crossword being a paragon of accuracy and correctness. And when it’s not, it’s tongue-in-cheek about it. So shouldn’t the clue have been something like, “Illiterate ATM user’s need”?
12
@Charley
I completely agree – that rubs me the wrong way every time I hear it. It’s almost as bad as hearing “free gift” read from the Bible in church (Romans 5: 14-16). Aargh!
1
Nice catch @Charley. I'm usually pretty quick to spot a redundancy, but that one slipped past the radar.
Years ago in his On Language column, Bill Safire listed some common redundant expressions that people use unthinkingly. These included "revert back," "safe haven," and to "shrug one's shoulders."
And more along the lines of PIN number, my pre-med friend once informed me of his internship in the ER room.
1
"PIN Number" is said by nearly everyone, so it really is a term in common usage. I don't find these new ways of speaking to be too terribly annoying.
Usually I read Deb's article to get clues. Lately, and especially after this puzzle, I've been reading for the fun of comparing my thoughts to hers. Today's puzzle was great fun - well done, Nate!
5
The # character in the Twitter context (and in other computer usage) is called a "hash". When a tag is created by following a hash with text the whole thing forms a hashtag. "#pedantry" is a hashtag; "#" alone is not.
I realize this ship has sailed and that the misunderstanding is too firmly rooted to remove, but that realization doesn't stop me from being annoyed by it.
19
@Craig
But in usage, people say "hashtag pedantry". So while # is just hash and the word/phrase after it constitutes the tag, the people who have adapted to using it are now calling # hashtag.
2
In the mid 80s I had for my Commodore 64 (!) a cartridge (!) that was a very early text-to-speech program. It would speak what you asked it to, but it would also narrate your keypresses as you typed. it would say "hash" for the "#" symbol, memorable because it sounded like it was saying "hush", and impatiently at that.
1
Unfortunately true... and another ship that sailed long ago is PIN NUMBER...
2
And of course, to paraphrase Crick and Watson:
"It has not escaped our notice that the structure of today's crossword immediately suggests a mechanism for duplicating the Tweeter-in-Chief (#instafakenews)".
He also happened to feature in yesterday's Bee.
2
This is the most peculiar crossword week I can remember.
Today's was a tweety-pie Tuesday level.
Tuesday's was a monumental Thursday-level masterpiece.
Wednesday's was naughty but nice.
What on earth is in store for us tomorrow?
As a footnote, those of us hooked on the Spelling Bee would have noted MANCALA, which most posters (including me) had not seen before. Now we see it twice in one week. Clearly, the SB can be useful!
3
@NICE CUPPA
Having encountered a Tuesday puzzle with rebuses, can I no longer count on tomorrow's being rebus-free?!
Well this is my fastest Thursday ever. Once the first number sign appeared the trick was done and easy to complete. I'm attributing this to gradually increasing mental abilities, counter intuitive as that is (and counterfactual also). So I would appreciate it if I weren't disabused of this notion. Great puzzle. Obviously constructed only for the very brightest.
10
I felt quite clever, starting to use the rebus key, but quickly changing my mind and using the octothorpe (a word I did not know, but will certainly use in some smug fashion). My time was far below average, boosting my ego, until seeing most of the commentors had good times. But, for a debut, very smart and well done. Thought the clue for 40A was lame. Otherwise enjoyed it, even if I'm not as brilliant as I thought.
Makes sense if you think of both “colors” as verbs, no?
@David
Thought the clue for 40A was clever!
1
That was the easiest Thursday puzzle I have ever attempted but I also got the trick right away.
3
8 rebus entries that covered all the common meanings of # symbol AND two entry pairs naming the symbol! Beautiful! And to boot, it taught me the word OCTOTHORPE by breaking it up. What a bonus moment! Favorite puzzle this summer!
13
This puzzle was a real kick in the OCTO THORPE - what a sparkling debut for Nate Cardin!
I really liked the pre-Shortzian puzzles which made use of the various non-alphanumeric typewriter key symbols. They were the original rebuses. So I'm always pleased to see my old friends make a comeback. Quite a challenge, though, to get the puzzle properly aligned on that patten.
The ____ Tzu spelling always throws me, but quickly figured out that our key symbol de jour wasn't a tASH TAG.
Thanks Nate. Let's have some more.
2
PIN number is redundant. ;-)
Fun puzzle. One of my best Thursday times.
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Personal Identification Number Number. :D
It's what you use to get your money out of the ATM machine. ;)
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And hot water is what comes out of the hot water heater.
Deb writes:
"It’s also important to note that, if you are solving on the web or in an app, while the theme entries look like rebuses, smell like rebuses and taste like rebuses (they’re sharp, don’t get them stuck in your teeth), you do not need to use the Rebus Key for this puzzle."
And that, of course, is because this puzzle, unlike those that require use of the Rebus Key, is actually a rebus puzzle. You must use the Rebus Key for squish puzzles.
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Here's an interesting read on octothorpe:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-oct1.htm
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Isn't it just Ian and Jim and 6 other of their relatives surnamed THORPE?
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@Barry Ancona I found this Wikipedia article pretty interesting, as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign. Especially the evolution of the symbol from an earlier abbreviation for "pound weight", and a wide variety of aliases for this little symbol: crosshatch, (garden) fence, mesh, flash, grid, pig-pen, tictactoe, scratch (mark), (garden) gate, hak, oof, rake, crunch, punch mark, sink, corridor, capital 3, and waffle.
I'm pretty sure my 6-year-old grandson would know it only as a tic-tac-toe board.
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@David
In proofreading aloud with an actual copy holder, my experience is that the term most frequently used is "grid."
Fantastic debut and a lot of fun. Went through first couple of passes with few entries filled in. I have a tendency to skip revealer theme entries like today's. Didn't even bother trying to look at them until I have enough crossings.
But once the OCTO was in place, it was pretty obvious. I knew OCTOTHORPE, but had forgotten the spelling. And because it was OCTOTHROPE, it had to #. But I started filling out the square with the whole word as a rebus before deciding that # is what is actually wanted.
As others have noted, it's on the easy side. I got a personal record on this one, which is less than 1/3 of my average time.
I've never heard of # used as space either, like others have commented, in typography or anywhere else. So that's new. And over all, there are some pretty fresh/uncommon entries. I say it's a job well done, too bad it is over so soon.
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Wen,
See the link for "#" used as "space" indicator:
https://nybookeditors.com/2013/06/copyediting-marks/
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@Wen—Actually, using # in typography (and editing markup) is quite old. It was already venerable when I started my editing career more than 50 years ago. For all I know, it may go back to Gutenberg.
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@Barry & @paulymath - so you're saying that using # to denote space in editing/typography should not be new to Deb, even though she seems to indicate that it is new to her?
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Pretty easy. I had typed in words, 'number', 'space', etc. for the Rebus squares long before I figured out with help of the revelers what those words had in common. Fortunately, the on-line solver accepted that, and substituted the # in for me when done.
I realized that solving it that way, this puzzle would have been much harder had Mr. Cardin allowed those octothorpes to have different meanings in the Across and Down uses - like letting DOG POUND cross with SHARP SHOOTER. That would have been wicked.
As it was, it solved pretty quickly, very close to a record Thursday for me.
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@David I like your typo. I prefer revelry over revealery.
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I didn't know"octothorpe," and I like this puzzle even more now that I've looked it up!
This was my fastest Thursday ever, coming in at around my usual Tuesday times. If it weren't for the rebus, I'd wonder if this week's Tuesday and Thursday puzzles had gotten switched.
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TIL OCTOTHORPE. Fortunately all the clues were easy.
I’ve never seen this sign used to mean SPACE before. Something used in typography, perhaps?
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@Alan Young
Yes, Alan. It's used in proofreading and copyediting (or copy#editing).
Congratulations! Yes, I found it tricky, but easy. But then again, I knew octothorpe, which I believe was coined by Bell Labs for the symbol on the first telephone keypads. I was surprised and pleased to see it here. I’ve never liked “hashtag”. I did use the rebus key until I found the revealers.
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@Larry Finch. "Space" was the second one I came to, and I actually hit the rebus button and pressed the spacebar and clicked "done."
Figured it out with the next one...
I'm not quite sure I understand. I to finished in record time but when we got to space, I also used the rebus and the space bar. When I finished, I had to put the letter "s" and I got my music. I'll have to go back and see if there is a different space symbol. I also typed the word space as a rebus, That worked but only the letter s shows.
@Mickeyd - I often find the app a LOT wonky on rebuses. If the app were less so, I might not carp about rebuses quite so much...
I chuckled when I opened the Comments panel to find that, (at the moment):
The heading says "Comments 2."
In Newest order, I can see 1.
In Oldest order, I can see 4.
[Heavy sigh!]
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@Alan J not counting the people who live in Durham and its environs, there are three types of people in this world: those who can count and those who cannot. On a serious note, however, I have noticed this phenomenon several times when I check my bank balance. Technically it's call premature emuneration. Between the time the software lists your balance at the beginning and finishes listing the transactions, your wife has withdrawn a huge chunk of cash.
4
Just a little nit to note - the sign # is not a sharp sign, though it is used as a keyboard substitute for the sharp sign.
The hashtag / pound sign / number sign has a pair of parallels running from left to right crossed by a pair of slanted lines.
The sharp sign has a pair of parallels running up/down crossed by a pair of slanted lines.
The distinction is important in written music, since the notes and signs are written on a series of parallel left-right lines. Using # for sharp would render it confusing to meaningless.
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@David Connell
I think most people call it close enough that the number sign is often used interchangeably with the sharp. Doesn't make it right, but it is, as they say, what it is.
4
Interesting; not knowing anything about music, I would not have noticed.
Do note, however, that the slanted lines are parallel to each other.
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Yes, in all three versions of this figure, the pairs of lines are always parallel:
Sharp - orthogonal up/down
Number/Space/Hash - orthogonal left/right
Tic-Tac-Toe - orthogonal in both directions
PIN# with #CRUNCHER filled in pretty fast, but then the rest of them didn't, until I realized that I needed to think of the other meanings that # has. "Space" was the strangest looking one in this context--I know it perfectly well from proofreading and copy editing, but seeing it mean the other kind of space took a while to register.
My last fill was the G in AMGEN, and I _really really_ wanted it to be AMLEN!
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@Liz B That G was also my last fill, and I considered leaving "space" BLANK, until I figured out they were all #'s
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@Patrick Cassidy
Hand up for leaving the space blank for most of the puzzle in fact
@suejean Me three on the G.
And a long pause before I typed it in.
There is no such thing as a PIN NUMBER. It's a PIN, Personal Identification Number. Then second "Number" is redundant.
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@RHD. Yeah; but EVERYBODY says it ,anyway; so...
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@Patrick Cassidy Doesn’t make it right. This IS the NYT.
The funny thing is, I have on rare occasions seen this referring to the user ID (i.e. not the secret password-y part). After all, it is a Personal IDENTIFICATION Number. A number that only you know doesn't actually identify you. It only validates that you know that number (which is akin to a secret password except it's all numeric). So for example, an SSN does identify who you are.
But in general the PIN is really just a secret password that is not really a word but a string of numeric digits (i.e. a number). Speaking of which, is 01234 a number or a numeric string of text? In numbers, leading 0s are meaningless, right?
And yes, people will call it PIN Number. Yes, it's redundant. No, you'll never be able to correct people who say PIN Number. Because PIN has become a word, not an acronym. It rolls off the tongue quite nicely at that.
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A little too easy for a Thursday, perhaps?
1
Was this really this Tuesday’s puzzle, and today’s puzzle really meant for Tuesday ?
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Please don't say that. I have been feeling so smart.
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@Mickeyd - If you solved Tuesday 's puzzle without too much difficulty, go ahead and feel smart!
A debut?
CONGRATULATIONS, Mr. Cardin!
A fun (if a bit easy) Thursday...
Have I mentioned that Thursdays are usually my favorite puzzles of the week?
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