Toronto Shooting Shakes City Amid a Rash of Violence

Befor you falsely equivalate this random act of a mentally ill person, lets be careful. This is not a weekly occurrence, this was not a high school, elementary school, movie theatre or music event; the gunman had a handgun, not a repeating firearm. The event , like the Montreal shooting, or the Ottawa shooting, was awful, and as a Canadian I am devastated, but it is not, at all the same. We have enough idiots who want looser gun laws, but they are not backed by gunmakers who need to maintain a business models of arming the world, or if that doesn't work anymor, or is not enough of a market, then to keep the model going, then arm all citizens, teachers etc. So, yes, Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal have racism, inequality and all the necessary ingredients for violence and it is worrisome, but Canada does not have an NRA. It is lobbying, and we are a lucrative market, but most Canadians feel safer as a result of fewer guns. This is an aberration, a tragedy etc, but we know it could have been worse had he held an automatic weapon designed to do much more damage.

I lived in Toronto for several years. Clean, safe, diverse and friendly. However, their way too open immigration laws have already started to wreak havoc. It will only get worse unless they start becoming much more selective about who they admit.

campus95 says: "The unintended side-effect of allowing millions of immigrants to setup ethnic enclaves in Toronto neighborhoods is the complete destruction of Toronto." I live in the very "ethnic enclave" the shooter attacked on Sunday night. The blocks of the Danforth he stalked are my blocks, my restaurants, my patios, my shops, shared with the many other residents of this vibrant, peaceful, beautiful and interesting neighborhood. While I am not of Greek background, I love the flavor and stimulation that that ethnicity brings to my experience. The many "ethnic" neighborhoods in Toronto, whether Chinese, Italian, Portuguese, Caribbean, Indian, etc. each adds vibrancy to this city. How sad that Campus95 views the mixing of peoples as destructive. How much richer Toronto is for the multi-ethnic rainbow he berates.

The Canadians responding to this seem to be universal in saying, "We don't want the overflow of your vile violence coming to Canada" and they are right. When the Russians gained control of the US White House, I can only say to our old friends from up north, "Its going to get worse, maybe much worse, before it gets better." The worst is coming out now and there is no efforts to constrain it. The hate and cross border bad dialogue will not just go away, not even if the true miracle of Trump removal was as close as this year, these stains of hate will take years to heal, if ever. None of our old friends can feel safe in being trusting in the US anymore and we need unity like never before, Europe and the Arctic are catching fire and unprepared to deal with it. Also, Russia is growling at the door. All free countries must strengthen their resolve, unity and their people because the weak always perish first while draining the resources of even the strongest trying to rescue them. We all owe good health to ourselves, our family, our neighbors and country, overweight and smoking is harming us all.

Toronto is just a waiting area for criminals to enter the US, the doormat of the world. The unintended side-effect of allowing millions of immigrants to setup ethnic enclaves in Toronto neighborhoods is the complete destruction of Toronto. Instead, you have a nanny state that is becoming more militarized every day, and an ex-police commissioner was just appointed czar of border issues. You can guess his recommendation will be to have more police.

You should probably check your facts about the "tight gun laws" in Canada. There is no longer a federal register since Stephen Harper's conservative government removed it in 2012. Only the province of Québec has re-instated one this year.

Is it possible that some the medieval, obscurantist ideology -- that adherents claim is infallible -- could have contributed to the shooting?

How does a Toronto-based Muslim journalist look at it? Read on: https://torontosun.com/2016/05/24/canada-home-to-islamic-radicals/wcm/39...

"Compared with American cities, the number of shootings in Toronto is low." Stricter gun regulation, combined with a saner, healthier, more civil, less angry national culture will keep the relative rate of gun death in Toronto low. Compare Toronto with Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, LA or many other US cities and we find ourselves in totally different universes of carnage.

The folks below calling for guns to be taken from the 'mentally ill' don't realize the difficulty that this entails. I agree that this would be great - on paper. But practically speaking you will have a lot of problems in *officially* identifying someone who is so ill that they will be prevented from purchasing guns or have their weapons confiscated. You'll have to justify each case to the ACLU and other groups, and it would require specific legislation.

This example proves that we can never be completely safe as long as there is a single gun left. Canada and the US must prohibit all firearms and send troops to every home confiscating every last one. Wanting any sort of weapon is de facto evidence of insanity, so anyone failing to hand them over must be locked up where they will no longer threaten our peace of mind.

Thanks to the New York Times for this forum. I’m completely lost when I depend on the mainstream media’s coverage of this incident.

Toronto was my home for 30 years. As a Canadian ex-pat currently living in Wisconsin, I would take my chances in Toronto any day.

For any gun advocates inclined to gloat that stricter gun laws don't work after all, all you need to read is this sentence: "Compared with American cities, the number of shootings in Toronto is low." An uptick in gun violence (and of course any life lost is a tragedy) doesn't change that overall statistical picture. Gun control will never reduce gun deaths to zero, just as eating healthy and exercising and taking your meds won't reduce your possibility of getting sick to zero. But it's still a good idea to do those things. This has always been about reducing *likelihood.* The harder we make it for people to have guns, the fewer people will be able to have and use them. Are we ready for common sense yet?

I live in Columbus but was born and raised in Toronto, so I have a good perspective on each. Canadians, in general, have a totally different mindset about guns and gun violence. For example, the reaction of politicians to this is "we have a gun problem" not "people kill people, guns don't kill people, good guy with a gun". Politicians esp Republicans would not last long in red areas even hinting at that.

In this case, size matters. Any regulated/prohibited object that's small enough to be concealed is small enough to be smuggled and/or diverted if there's enough profit motive. That goes for guns, untaxed cigarettes and alcohol, drugs, you name it. Even excluding the Second Amendment from the mix, the question comes down to how much police legwork you're willing to pay for, and how much power you're willing to grant the police. California recently passed a law allowing the seizure of firearms from convicted stalkers/abusers. Sounds like a common-sense law - the buzzphrase of the moment, right? Except that state lawmakers provided no additional money for enforcement. A more cynical person than I might say the politicians were only interested in holding press conferences to pat themselves on the back for their imagined compassion, while keeping their eyes peeled for the next tragedy and the next opportunity to wave the bloody shirt.

"Toronto has awakened to a grim new reality: Despite Canada’s tight gun laws, the city is gripped with some of the same problems that bedevil larger places with laxer rules." Can you back this up with facts ? What larger places - what are the relevant comparisons ? Cleveland ? Boston ? Phoenix ? Havana ?

When the rate of gun deaths per capita in Canada reaches anywhere near parity with that of the US, then I'll entertain the buffoons who claim this is an argument against gun control. Yeah, there are still gun deaths in Canada, despite gun control laws. The laws don't prevent all gun deaths, they just make their occurrence far less likely. The odds of you being killed by a gun in Canada are still far less than that of the USA. Sometimes people in the US still die from E.coli. That doesn't mean laws for food safety should be tossed. You're still way better off eating food in the US than in somewhere like India.

In prior mass shootings, there was reportage on the killer's social media postings. Were there none in this case? I am also breathlessly awaiting for Vanity Fair to run a cover with the murderer's cute picture.

This wouldn’t rate even an inner-page story in most US big city newspapers. It’s just the norm in America but dramatically unusual in Canada. We hate to see America’s ridiculous love affair with guns extend north.

Toronto can be an annoying city, if one is a driver, but it is a peaceful safe city. Those few violent incidents that occur receive the sort of continuous news exposure that lead many - including Toronto residents - to perceive shootings as being more frequent than they really are.

This article is about guns: Guns, although a contributing factor are not by themselves the problem. In the case of Canada it is globalization and the overwhelming number of immigrants that have arrived oh her shores straining the once best of the best in health care and a housing market in urban areas largely unaffordable to Canadians themselves. This grim scenario is repeated daily in America and Europe, in a dozen countries and even more languages: people are angry, angry at the injustices that have been hoisted upon them by self serving politicians and business leaders in a winner take all society. Globalization, disruptive technologies and business models, and those at its forefront have picked the winners and the losers, decimating America, Europes and Canada’s middle class and selling our nations for the cost of a condo and a plane ride. Guns are a means of destroying lives more quickly but they are the means not the cause. In West Palm Beach, Florida this past year there have been several knife attacks on tourists sitting in restaurants, riding their bike or taking a walk and you can’t pick up The Palm Beach Post without looking at a mug shot of yet another young person whose life is wasted due to violence. Inequality has much to do with this, coupled with the realization that escaping poverty is no longer possible for millions. The rise of liberalism offered so much, its fall was caused by greed in Florida a trip across the bridge to Palm Beach will confirm this.

“Why does anyone in this city need to have a gun at all?” Exactly! And let's expand that thought to whole countries. Civilians don't need guns.

If there were private legal gun owners during this shoot-out who were able to take out this killer while waiting for the police, would the death toll be less: possibly. So I think more liberal gun ownership would actually make for a safer city, especially concealed carry weapons.

Imagine that: an area with tight gun restrictions still has criminals with guns. Why won't the criminals obey the laws? What if law-abiding individuals were allowed to protect themselves against the criminals? Why am I asking you?

This spin on news clearly intended to be eye catching badly distorts reality. The 48 homicides in Toronto this year to date this is terrible but not in the same league as the scale of US violence. So far this year Chicago, a city with almost exactly the same population has had 290 homicides.

The article claims that Toronto has some of the same problems that bedevil "larger places with laxer rules". Do the writers realise that the only North American cities larger than Toronto are Mexico City, New York, and LA? (Chicago is roughly similar to Toronto, depending on how you measure.) Maybe they do, but if so they chose an unusual construction for that sentence. I suspect they are instead ignorant of this basic fact about the city they are reporting on.

I'm all for gun control, but for everyone who claims that "most" of the guns are coming from the US, please note this paragraph in the article: Although some handguns are smuggled across the border from the United States, Mario Harel, president of Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, told a legislative committee in May that “50 percent of all handguns used in crime, that we have been able to trace, have been diverted from legal Canadian firearm owners.”

How this guy with his mental problems obtained a gun will eventually be uncovered. If his parents knew he had one that is a big problem to me. Certainly the USA has a gun violence problem and many guns are likely smuggled across the border; however, it is interesting and worth quoting the Canadian Police official from the article. Mario Harel, president of Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, told a legislative committee in May that “50 percent of all handguns used in crime, that we have been able to trace, have been diverted from legal Canadian firearm owners.” I am not sure what he means by "diverted", but I guess it means the gun was purchased by a qualified buyer but somehow a nut like this guys somehow got his hands on it.

The shooter was mentally ill, didn't get treated and somehow got his hands on a weapon. So, put another way, gun laws don't really work, and neither does single payer health care.

"The city is gripped with some of the same problems that bedevil larger places with laxer rules." Canadian deaths from firearms in 2013 = 134 United States deaths from firearms in 2013 = 33,636 Did the NRA write or approve this article?

Sure, easier to blame the US, the NRA and the “gun industry” for a societal problem that cannot be solved by the simplistic expedient of banning guns. Sooner or later, people will understand that.

It's nearly impossible to curb guns when you share a border with the U.S., where gun ownership is practically a religion. What we really need is a wall.

My thoughts and prayers go .... (only choked a little saying the religious thing - this IS serious) out to you guys. I used to say “kick back and watch (read about NYT) the fireworks Canada”: now I’m saying you’re located too close to that country that certain fundamentalist just live to hate ‘fore they blow themselves to smitherings. And as part of its evolution, it still is contains an obsolete 2nd amendment law that has transmogrified into something justifiable (& even self perpetuating). I am just waiting (and probably forever) to read about some gun collector (like my previous self), with a ‘yuuuge’ cache of hunting assault riffles ‘n bazookas, successfully thwarted an imminent attacker’s attempt to blow someone up. Even before my little gun dalliance (2 long, & 2 hand incl. a nazi p38), I used to collect “neat things “, and depreciation be damned, use very inappropriately to my disappointment when a tool no longer cuts or performs properly. Sorry about your loss, dear Canada.

Canada has very strict laws on restricted weapons like handguns. You need a special license requiring special training and a very stringent background check, and you aren't legally permitted to can't carry a handgun except back and forth to a shooting range or to sell it or to repair ( (and then it can't be loaded and must be stored) unless you are law enforcement or equivalent. It doesn't seem as though there is any way the shooter would have qualified for a license or been permitted to purchase one. Canada's problem is that there are lots of easily accessible weapons, legal or illegal, next door in the United States and there is a very long porous border that criminals can breach to bring weapons illegally into the country. In a way this situation is the opposite of Prohibition, with rum running into the US replaced by gun running into Canada.

The gun lobby and gun fetishists try to portray this as solely a mental health and background check problem, whether gun violence occurs in the USA, Canada, or elsewhere. But that's a deflective canard. The gun industry, the NRA, and its allies have used political propaganda and outreach to make guns seem desirable and necessary. Further, Canada borders a country that millions of guns and gun fetishists. Guns are easily smuggled in, especially across the Detroit River, into Windsor, and then on to Toronto. One of the worst human traits is the urge to kill. The gun industry and its shills profit from that urge, weaponizing and monetizing it. They are to blame as much as the shooters.

Canada is very safe and please so not compare our situation here to the U.S. There are many differences that are too many to list. Mental health resources are limited here I particular for higher levels of severity; not only for the individual but their families who can make the most difference in these cases. Imagine their suffering now. This article sensationalizes the incident and makes little mention of the impact of inadequate response to mental health issues of the aforementioned severity.

And where do you suppose the guns are coming FROM? The USA. Time to tighten Canadian borders.

Severe mental health problems and psychosis throughout much of his life - then he should not have been able to get a handgun. We are fools, whether we live in the US or Canada, not to start identifying people who should not possess firearms. When the behavior is noticed, the duty to deal with that person starts. It is usually family who first see the signs, neighbors see it, teachers in school see it, classmates see it. People have to be encouraged, and perhaps required, to speak up. The "when you see something, say something" direction has to be more widespread, and perhaps the subject of legal duty. Protect your community, protect yourself. When we identify problem cops, we take their guns from them. We should do the same thing with anyone who shows problem behavior indicating danger or irresponsibility with firearms.

A very sad incident, but it once again shows that Canada is not the paradise of perfection that some in America just love to pretend it is. They have difficult problems as well.

Resident of Toronto. The shooter used a handgun which, as the article indicates, is incredibly hard to get in Canada. This man's mental health status would have precluded a legal purchase of a handgun. Illegal guns from legal gun owners might be a problem, but I think those would mostly be rifles or shotguns. Illegal smuggled handguns from the U.S. appears to be the main source of handguns in Toronto. Banning gun purchases in Canada will not stop the smuggling and may even increase it. And there are always other means of death as we saw last spring here with the van attack here on pedestrians that killed 10 people.

Enhanced, public, mental health awareness and support programs must be a priority for a healthier society. We also have a not so sudden but no less critical gun problem despite our laws, which increasingly seem inadequate to keep us safe.

If most of the guns used in crimes in Toronto are smuggled in from the US, then the US's lax handgun laws are at least partly responsible for this problem.

I live in Toronto and the place where the shootings occurred is well known to me. I am appalled and shaken and wish the best to the families of those killed and to all those injured. The dialogue about such incidents, however, is markedly different in the U.S. and in Canada. We are concerned with the practical implications of gun-control laws. We want to make our citizens as safe as possible without unduly restricting personal liberties. In general, our politicians are looking out for our citizens, not our guns. In a list of the homicide rates in North American cities the first 47 entries are from the U.S. Toronto appears at number 109. This shooting incident was tragic, but still very unusual. The intersection of mental health problems with weapons ownership is volatile, dangerous, and difficult to control. We're trying to avoid bluster and find real solutions. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/72f6hv/canadian_cities_by_homic...

I live in this area. The community has responded with boundless resilience, courage and humanity. The sidewalks surrounding a large nearby park are strewn with chalked messages of compassion and hope. Many thousands of messages by my estimate. Makeshift vigils have popped up in several spots. Yesterday evening, less than 24 hours after the rampage, innumerable people, young and old, families with children of all ages, were walking the very same streets. Statistical significance has a role in understanding what's happening, but it does not tell the whole story. One swallow doesn't make a spring, neither does one, or two, or three deluded acts of violence reflect the truth about Toronto or likely anywhere else. We are not afraid.

People with psychiatric problems will always present challenges to their families and to society, but they can harm far fewer people if they are unable to get hold of a gun. The answer is to take away the ability to purchase guns. Laws have to be tightened. In addition many of the guns in Canada are smuggled in through the States. It is time to tighten the border.