A Law Tailored for Orthodox Jewish Schools Is Unconstitutional, Lawsuit Says

At the snap of a finger, the big-shot rabbis in these orthodox communities tell their minions whom to vote for. They all comply. I imagine there's not one contrary vote cast out of the lot. And politicians like de Blazio are total cowards: the city report that was to analyze the yeshivas' educational compliance with state and local regulations could have been finished a couple of years ago. You can bet it's never going to see the light of day [or it will be very much watered down], because then our mayor [and governor] would have to tap dance around it. They're not about to get these communities angry. Inaction will be the operative word. What a disgrace.

The spread of the Ultra Orthodox is becoming viral. The settlers have added to the deterioration of Israel for decades and they are invading the U.S., overpopulating while increasing welfare rolls here. This is no less than the coercion and indoctrination of innocent children, producing mostly myopic cultists. Not a dime's difference from madrassas. Child abuse, pure and simple. Ironically, the proliferation of these people increases the potential of anti-Semitic backlash. Time for the courts to step up and put on the brakes to stop this growing political movement in its tracks.

How are these Yeshivas different from Madrassas in Afganistan?

Every day my own people give me another reason to renounce my own Judaism.

The biggest surprise to me is the fact that anyone is surprised by this! We have politicians, most specifically our esteemed Mayor DiBozo, who relentlessly pander to these and other identity groups for the simple reason of getting votes and campaign contributions. He/they would not lift a finger to help anyone if in so doing it lost a single vote or campaign dollar!

They should also investigate the practice of not getting an official state issued marriage license. The issue is that they then apply, and receive, financial aid from the state due to being an ‘unwed’ family. Again, politicians do nothing because they vote in a block. Shameful!

Imposing illiteracy on children is illegal. For this reason the foreign-born children of undocumented immigrants can join their American born younger siblings and their citizen neighbors and register in our public schools. (Plyler v. Doe). Many of the male graduates of these ultra orthodox yeshivas are functionally illiterate in English. Their instruction is largely conducted in Yiddish. Reading, writing and speaking in English at the 12th Grade Level is a pipe-dream. They do not receive a valid high school diploma. Their entire 12 hour instructional day is devoted to religious studies. Without instruction in math, science, history, geography, technology, arts, health or physical education these "graduates" are woefully prepared for their real world adult financial responsibilities. They are disproportionately unemployed or underemployed, an emergency given their customary large families. Their dependence on public assistance is extremely stressful given their large families and the corresponding housing needs. YAFFED, the organization bringing this lawsuit, is doing us all a great service. We need this burgeoning population to be educated well enough to provide for their own families and to feel as though they have a stake in the governance and civil responsibilities of the secular world in which they live and upon which they depend. We also need to stifle any trend towards letting a politician of a particular religion hold the entire state budget hostage.

Does anyone know what LD (learning disability) education is like in orthodox yeshivas? I'm an LD educator in an independent school and curious.

As doy1 pointed out: "Imagine the uproar if Catholic schools did as these schools do - or for that matter, any other religiously-affiliated schools." We actually don't need to imagine the uproar if the religion happens to be Islam. The reaction isn't at all imaginary.

Nothing will happen because our sleazy politicians are dependent on the Orthodox voting block. No one in City government has the spine to stand up to this outrageous situation.

Kiryas Joel has the lowest per capital income level in the US. Anyone else see a correlation?

This law was a huge disservice to the children in those schools, but a huge boon to the ultra-Orthodox community and its leadership. Let's keep people under-educated with no other options and they'll be forced to stay. There are many aspects of the ultra-Orthodox community that seem very cult-like to me, and this is one of them.

There are catholic schools, and schools run by other religious organizations. There are schools with special emphasis on science and performing arts. All must meet the basic standards established by the state board of education. To provide a special separate requirement for one group is obviously corrupt and illegal, violating multiple constitutional principles. That the yeshivists even want this is shameful.

The girls have to have a better education, including the ability to speak/read English. They are the ones who work, some in the outside communities, so that the males can 'study'. Even then, many rely on state benefits because their incomes do not support their large families.

Having attended both Catholic elementary and high schools in Queens from 1947-59, this just boggles my mind. At the completion of eighth grade and periodically through high school we had to take New York State Regents Exams in a variety of subjects including math, sciences, history, English and foreign languages. We also managed to take classes in our religion. It would seem that these schools can manage to do both as well.

Imagine the uproar if Catholic schools did as these schools do - or for that matter, any other religiously-affiliated schools. Why are these ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools and communities exempt from the law? This problem was well-known a long time ago - why is nothing done about it? Any group or individuals - of any religion or tradition - who deliberately leave their children so poorly educated, uninformed, and unprepared for life in the 21st century should face criminal charges - and if they continue to refuse to correct this, have their children removed from their custody. As others here have noted, children are not property to do with as parents wish. Parents have responsibilities more than rights - responsibilities to feed, clothe, house, nurture, socialize, and educate their children adequately according to the standards of the contemporary developed world.

Three years, and a study still can't find out if a school's curriculum meets state standards? Only in New York, kids!

Dov Hikind, Simcha Felder , et al- al part of either the state or federal legislatures are famous for delivering blocs of orthodox voters to candidates who favor their policies. That is one reason nothing is ever done to make these ultra orthodox yeshivas conform to state education policies.

I'm Jewish and I would deport all of them if they weren't already citizens. If you want to live like you're in "Fiddler On The Roof", that's up to you. But you're not entitled to set up your own society within ours, making up your own rules.

To see what they're learning, here's a letter from the Lubavitcher Rabbi Menachim Mendel Schneerson, explaining his teaching that, following the Torah, the sun revolves around the earth, rather than vice versa. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2046989/jewish/D... Don't take my word for it. If you meet any ultra-orthodox Jews, ask them whether they believe that the sun revolves around the earth or vice versa.

This is heartbreaking. I cannot imagine the difficulty one would face if, as an adult, one wanted to leave one's community of origin (essentially breaking all family ties in the process) and enter society with no qualifications, not even a middle school education or knowledge base. That we allow children to kept ignorant, essentially trapped within their isolated communities, is an outrage. If 99 kids stay in their community and find their education adequate? Great. But if even one chooses to live in the secular world or is forced to look for work in the secular world and finds that because of their parents' choices, they cannot hope to catch up with their peers, that is a tragedy.

America in general kowtows to religious groups that vote in reliably large blocks way too much. The Christian are probably the worst aggressors in this arena as they enjoy the most political support. My thoughts are simple: remove the tax exemptions of all religious groups and allow people to worship however they choose. Likewise allow people to educate their own children or congregation however they choose as long as they can pass a simple GED equivalent test.

Someone should read Shulem Deen's memoir, if you want a good look at what happens in some of these ultra-orthodox schools in terms of disabling their students from being able to thrive in a secular world. It's brilliant, disturbing, heart-rending. Why can't you both be a person of faith and live in our secular society? That is the way it SHOULD be; balanced. Otherwise it seems to me that it becomes like the dangerous fundamentalisms of other religions that we've seen. I hope New York does the right thing to protect our children who should be the hope of the future

Besides the personal loss of secular education for these children the broader society loses out too. We lose the benefit of voters from these communities with the critical thinking necessary for them to make thoughtful, independent decisions on election day. Because of their great birthrate the residents of the communities are becoming a greater proportion of those voting in our elections. The Department of Education's slowness in moving along with its investigation of outrageous.

I just wanted to share with the readers that this concept applies STRICTLY to ultra orthodox yeshivas. There are many Orthodox Yeshivas in the New York /New Jersey area that provide a top notch secular education, equivalent to public school education. In my immediate area alone (Bergen County, NJ) there are 6 orthodox elementary schools and 3 high schools like this, and my children attend one of them.

In all but a handful of Orthodox Jewish Yeshiva Schools, the secular curriculum is either non-existent or woefully inadequate. A few students and their parents object and enter into different schools but for the vast majority, this is not an option. They are able to sustain this type of teaching because it is so difficult to enforce anything else. And, we must feel badly for all the students who are denied a basic education to live in a diverse society.

"Proponents of the yeshiva system said that the schools do provide a good education, and that the amount of time spent on arithmetic or English isn’t a good proxy for a quality education." I am told that it is only natural for parents to pass on the tenets of their faith and culture to their children. After all, the most permanent destruction of any religion will come about when its younger members no longer have any faith in its legitimacy. So faithful parents make the understandable choice to introduce their children to their beliefs. It's not about yeshiva schools in particular, but in general. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, Scientologist or the Mysteries of Mithras, it's just what humans do. But even while acknowledging that children cannot make many important decisions for themselves, I am always wary of any practices that even slightly impede a child's ability to make FUTURE choices as an adult. Early education is designed to develop reading, writing, mathematical and logical reasoning skills with the hope that children will eventually be able to DERIVE knowledge and synthesize information to reach conclusions beyond what they have simply been told. Without that ability, few of their choices are meaningfully "informed." Parents can raise their child in whatever faith they see fit, but (please forgive me this sentence) hobbling their fundamental knowledge in the process seems perilously close to a gilded cage scenario, however loving it may be.

It is outrageous that Yeshivas are exploiting the political system - and even worse that craven politicians give in - to keep children deprived of knowledge they need to function as full participants in American society. It is child abuse.

Religions fear a properly educated populace because, with a proper education, students learn critical thinking. Critical thinking is the opposite of following blindly. Religions requires its adherents to follow blindly. It hits them in the pocket book and that they cannot tolerate.

Just imagine if we were talking about madrasas instead of yeshivas.

A question: What percentage of graduates from ultra-orthodox yeshivas are so poorly prepared for life in the 21st century that they become recipients of public assistance for the rest of their lives?

It's a shonda. Seriously. These kids deserve better.

In three years, the city Department of Education has managed to visit all of 15 schools, or five per year, in their "investigation." Despite their claim that the investigation is active and will deliver a report "soon," at this pace it will take at least four more years to complete their visits, meaning that their report, for an investigation begun in 2015, will be delivered in 2022, if ever. Clearly, there is no intention for a serious investigation of the adequacy of yeshiva education.

This is not just a matter of religious liberty. A disproportionate amount of state and city funding goes to these schools. Adding insult to injury, so many of these children lack basic education that a significant percentage of them go on to require social safety nets to survive because they have limited marketable skills. An article in this very newspaper highlighted this issue several months ago. If people want to keep their children in the Stone Age educationally, I supposed that’s their right. What they cannot do, however, is expect me and the rest of the tax base to be complicit in their decision to undereducated their children, and they don’t have a right to then expect me and my fellow tax payers to then support these undereducated children for the rest of their lives. They can’t have it both ways. They can’t balk at government interference in schools and then expect the government to step in with section 8, snap, schip, and Medicaid handouts. The government “meddles” in schools to ensure they are producing productive members of society that won’t need these kinds of benefits in the future. What this community is doing is a complete perversion of this social covenant. I’m glad to see some light shed on this issue.

Do these yeshivas receive state monies to help fund their operations? To me that is the issue. If the state--or the city or community in which it is located--provides public monies to support operation of the school, then the school must meet educational standards set by that government. To verify that, government oversight must be provided. It seems to me there have been numerous lawsuits in New York State over whether these institutions provide secular education that meets state standards. If the school does not accept state or local government funds, they may have a case for teaching what they want. But this article does not address the issue of government funding of these schools. Please publish a follow up article on this aspect of the case.

The state's responsibility to ensure adequate education for all children, including those in private religious schools, is one of the foundations of a functioning democracy.

Is the child ever given the freedom to decide it's own path in life, given it is denied the skills to do so - especially the males? Are they not fellow Americans free to explore, engage, and otherwise enjoy such liberty along with its inherent obligations - taxes, compliance with the law, etc.?

If this is how these parents and this community wishes to educate their children, the government should not interfere. Relative to students who learn English, math, science and social studies in other schools, these students may, one day, feel they are somewhat “behind” in their skillset. Or, maybe not. At that point in time, if so desired, whether as children or as adults, they can then seek out the knowledge/skills that they are “missing out on” now. Live and let live. If this is how these parents and this community want to educate their children, I think the government should stay out of it. It’s not the way I would educate my children but the American way is to “live and let live.”

At some point, the separation of church and state needs to be applied to public education as a whole. While I respect ones religious beliefs, using the power and resources of the state to advance religious belief is inappropriate.

These schools should be immediately disbanded. Teachers are not meeting state standards. Students are being robbed of an education. Religious freedom does not include the right to keep your children ignorant. Officials need to stop pandering to religious fanatics. As a Jewish woman who was educated in yeshivas in my youth, this is not the education I was given. We were taught secular subjects alongside religious ones. My classmates are now teachers, doctors, lawyers and other professionals. They are fully equipped for the challenges of the modern world. Yeshivas that cannot do the same must be closely supervised until they live up to their obligations to their students and the community at large.