Simple: If you don't fit the stereotype, you don't exist:
"However you did not include ... the educated, middle class, and wealthy people who ... continue to support Trump. How would you explain this ... group?"
3
I hadn't heard this:
"Trump declared last week he will create thousands more Walmart jobs ... Just what people need--more low wage jobs ..."
I've read here in the NYT that inflation-adjusted wages are up. Sounds like you've heard the opposite. Can you tell the rest of us where you heard that?
1
Thank you NYT for a good laugh this morning. If the tariffs continue down this road, please run a follow up report, I’m sure it won’t be as funny.
Remember “I love the poorly educated” – DJT, February 24, 2018
3
"Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” "
LOL I agree! If it comes out of YOUR paycheck, I'm totally cool with it.
4
To be scammed by poor policies and expect to be rewarded later on is really naive.
4
NYT's please do a piece on the American values Trump is trashing. His base needs information on who we are as a people and what Trump is doing to change our value system to resemble autocratic systems we have always opposed. A "strong man" leadership does not make us strong, it makes us hated. And to be sure, others with similar strong men at the helm cannot be trusted.
4
There is an apt descriptor of those who cling to Trump’s promise of a White Nation over all their other life sustaining issues. The ease with which their attention was manipulated, captured, manipulated and committed to all things Trump establishes them as Zealots. Their inability to express the truth about the price they are paying to implement Trump’s dream establishes them as Zombies. Welcome to the real world of the Zealot Zombies seeking to infect a nation with decay that will only leads to the extinction of the Free World.
That is unless and until the “Liberal Conservatives” realize they need to stop believing in the a future of exploitive capitalism that has past; and rise to democratic socialism that will save the planet and right of people to be free of tyranny.
4
The recurring theme here is fair trade and leaders who follow through on their rhetoric. Right up the alley of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.
2
Those Trump supporters fail to understand that this is all a game to him, something he can do through executive decree. The fallout has no impact on Trump, one can be sure as every move he makes is about his monumental ego and not about a calculated outcome. How can it be, inasmuch as this president reads nothing on his desk exceeding one short page. These deluded supporters are like lemmings drawn to the sea. They'll wake up when they hit the water.
3
I don't think this is necessarily stupidity or racism or xenophibia.
It's called "brand loyalty." These folks were most likely raised Republican in regions that embrace the Republican "brand." All advertisers know that in order to instill brand loyalty, you need to get your targets (ahem, potential customers) when they are young & unformed. This has been a long time coming. Republicans have been working hard at local levels all across the country for forty years, funding Young Republican groups on campuses to foster ideology, slowly taking school boards, city councils, & state legislatures.
The latter are the key to gerrymandering, which allowed them to take the House & Senate, even though they are a minority party, & now they have captured the presidency & judiciary. They have promoted their brand by any means necessary, through lies, threats, intimidation, smear campaigns, & other dirty tactics.
Their followers are so indoctrinated that they no longer even ask what exactly is the Republican party & what does it stand for? Least of all do they ask, "what is the party doing for my benefit?"
To be a Republican means not questioning the party, not criticizing its leaders, & not falling out of lockstep. It means going along with whatever you're told, & voting whichever way you're told to vote. Like children, Republicans are easily cowed by the party's authority figures & rely upon them to run the systems in which they are supposed to be happy cogs.
9
"You have to get them when they're young." Just like religion, you aren't going to convince an adult to change their minds about something that has been beat into them since birth.
3
@Allison - This is a good point.
When I was younger I lazily adopted my parent's (Republican) politics so there is something in what you say. It took me far too long to wake up and change course but I did so after G.W.'s first term.
Shortly before my mother died four years ago she denounced the Republican party.
At some point though even brand loyalty should have its limits and these people should have known better than to worship a serial liar who brags about sexually assaulting women and not paying his share of taxes.
4
Perfect example of the phrase "people don't always vote in their beat interests." Sure is nice of Trump to give farmers hurt by this idiotic trade war a $12B bailout. How about all the others hurt also? Where does it end? Trump can't pay off all his harmed supporters.
2
Let's see how Casey Jackson feels about Trump's trade policies if it ends up costing him his job.....So Be It!
5
It's pure stubbornness. Apparently, they'd rather go bankrupt than admit those dirty commie, pinky, elitist, hippy, bleeding-hard, godless libruls were *right* about Trump.
3
When Hitler took over one of the things he did successfully was “shared” suffering for the fatherland that everyone was a soldier in the fight. It made people feel as if they counted they were part of something bigger.
5
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. H L Mencken
5
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,”...
Stupid is as stupid does. Nothing like voting against your own best interests. If you lose your job, let us know how unemployment is going.
6
they don't seem to care what the cost is. Cant blame them. I believe that tariffs will knock them on their behinds. Countries are retaliating.
3
I watched a TV report on this...how sad that those in the "red states" who benefit from Dem policies vs. GOP or Trump (I still think there is a differentiation between the two) don't see that they are the ones who suffer most when they cote GOP. Appalachia coal miners, farmers, factory workers. And, NO, it is not the immigrants who are taking your jobs. I hope that there are enough young "Turks" who can adequately present their platforms so that we again can see the American dream be within the reach of ordinary people and put the 1% into a decline. After all, how many millions does one person or family need in a lifetime to enjoy life? And despite the stock market (supported by money from people who have free cash to invest) is NOT an appropriate measure to display how our economy is doing. Nor is the Jobs Report when so many are underemployed (working beneath their expertise, pay grade or holding multiple jobs) a glowing example of well being. Those on the campaign trail need to bring TRUTH and FACTS to middle America and the Rust Belt. Their religious intolerance and Trumpism is not going to save them. The Dems might, if it is not too late.
3
Who’s to say these folks are wrong? The whole point of the trade war is that America has been fleeced for years by China and others and this is a direct attempt to tell those countries that the gravy train has stopped once and for all. That America will no longer allow huge trade deficits with the likes of China. Also we are letting China know that their past manipulations of trade rules are unacceptable from now on. Of course it will be difficult at first. Why would China change its ways if it can get away with it? Now the U.S. is simply stating that the days of China and others taking advantage of us are over. There is no doubt about it: China is now the biggest concern for the future security of America. They are now our biggest adversary. We must send a message of strength.
2
Democrats lost the messaging on protecting blue-collar jobs years ago. Michael Moore tried to educate the citizenry with "Roger and Me" -- but Americans wanted cheap stuff from China and the Corporate execs wanted profits: and so we got the Walmart-ification of the country. Now, nobody knows what they want. Protecting good, union jobs in manufacturing used to be the Democrat's territory. It still should be.
7
Experience is the best teacher. They have committed to a huge experiment with their livelihoods. They should hear "thanks for your service" - loud and often. They are the shock troops of the Trump army. March on to the "Battle Hymn of the Republic."
Maybe these hard-working folks might feel differently if they considered the sacrifices being made by the President, his Cabinet, and the members of Congress. Patriots all!
9
These are our fellow Americans The people interviewed here speak for some of my family members and others I know. They are good-hearted citizen who believe in this country. Those of us who see the damage these tariffs are doing understand and are angry at Trump -- like these workers we want to protect jobs and industries and support the job creation that help our fellow men and women. The work this company delivers is vital. Understanding why tariffs are harmful is even more important:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-trade-war-victory-china-disastr...
7
"Less than a month after Ross bought LTV, President George W. Bush imposed tariffs (March 2002) on imported steel that raised the prices about 20 percent — arguably saving the distressed steel industry in the United States."
https://nypost.com/2016/11/19/possible-commerce-head-ross-knows-how-to-d...
Do these working man heroes have any clue that current Commerce Secretary Wilbur was once an owner of US-based steel factories as head of WL Ross and Co?
First, purchase distressed US assets, but make sure the tariff is coming by communicating with Bush's Commerce Secretary.
Next, bargain down your steel workers' labor contracts to 'save' them.
Finally, form International Steel Group (ISG) and sell it in 2005 to what is now known as ArcelorMittal, a Luxembourgish multinational steel manufacturing corporation which produces the most steel in the world.
WL Ross and Co made a profit of over 12 times their investment.
Ross took half of his 2005 profits in stock of world-wide producer ArcelorMittal. Hmm, the new supplier to Banner Metals? Hmm, does Banner Metals get a discount on next order for their assistance as Ross & Company's "pro-Trump, pro-tariff" voices?
14
"Despite the perception of an uneven playing field in trade, Banner has been thriving."
Yet Trump has these people believing they are being taken advantage of and that he is going to fix what was not broken. Why do Trump supporters believe he knows anything about anything?
8
Deplorable.
And what do they think is going to happen in the long run? More jobs? Obviously not. Even Banner is already hit.
I would put the attitudes expressed at Banner of the "I will not admit I was wrong," type. There certainly is no rational logic involved. And to compare to Victory Gardens? Oh, puhleeeeze.
I would bet that the cost of raw materials is not a big percentage of the final product's price. Far more from capital, meeting regulations, and labor.
5
For stamped out parts in high quantities you would lose that bet. Material is by far the highest cost for metal fab production.
2
Ignorance by ignorant people who continue to buy into the lies of a pathological liar. ie Trump. He has no idea of the damage he is causing to these people and does not care. He and his cohorts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and are not affected by plant closings and layoffs due to his wrong headed tariffs. Lets see his base support as they lose health care and pay checks and perhaps their homes because of these tariffs.
7
Don't forget their food stamps! Many of them are on food stamps. More white people then blacks. And the majority are TRUMP supporters.
3
They remind me of Boxer the exploited horse from Animal Farm—“Napoleon is always right.”
7
Anything for an all white, male dominated America, just like the Good Old Days when everyone 'knew their place.'
5
Emotional manipulation is a powerful tool. How many fell for "WMD!"? Trickle-down? Trump and Putin are just using the same tricks as Cheney and Dubya - fooling the goobers.
The good news is the hardest lessons teach us the most, . . or used to.
7
The majority of Americans did not support Trump. Now they want to use our tax dollars to bail out the Trump supporters that are hurt by tariffs his own party didn't want to implement. Why wouldn't you vote for Trump?
6
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture."
Gee, too bad they don't have that attitude about other issues that the US is facing right now... like our failing educational and healthcare systems, or problems with poverty and homelessness, or the sorry state of out support for veterans.
7
How refreshing to see the US embracing a class system! It’s good that the meek, pliant plebs know their place when their betters in the WH gamble with their livelihoods, doffing their caps and accepting their lot like so many downtrodden before them. “All is as Trump wills it”, will be the new slogan of the enslaved pious. The feudal lord demanding tribute from the peasants, in the form of their salaries or jobs.
5
1984!
1
Not satisfied being the largest, most successful economy on earth, Americans talk trash about past administrations not doing enough to protect their jobs and economy. Then they sacrifice their values to support a pathological liar and bully by convincing themselves that his ignorance and deceit is just brash tough talk. "I like that Trump doesn't sugarcoat anything," said one employee, who clearly doesn't understand the lies he is being told.
8
The terms of "sect" and cult" come to mind. A good example of this type of addiction is that around 50% of people who have been operated on for lung cancer return to smoking. The motivation to learn a new trade is made by people who try to control their own future rather than to let it be controlled by Washington.
3
It will never cease to amaze me - this giving nature by Republicans. When a Democrat is in the White House fighting for a secure world, healthcare for all and a balanced budget...Republicans are simply opposed out-of-hand, claiming falsely “tax and spend liberals at-play”; however, when Elmer Fudd’s human persona rides into town promising Christmas but his own lack of policy equates to people having to dig deeper into their pockets...”well...sure...why not...there must be good to be had for somebody???” These people are simply Sheep that have not yet been butchered - but they will and will not see it coming until it’s too late.
7
"Mr. Sayre concurred — with one caveat. “I never cared much for the way Trump does it, but he’s doing O.K. as far as I’m concerned,” he said. What exactly doesn’t he like? “The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,” Mr. Sayre said."
Bends the truth??...we are in deep kimchee,
4
"If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it." Is this an example of cutting off one's nose to spite the face?
4
There are too many feel good comments about how foolish, fickle, uneducated or stupid DJT's base is. In this the latest marvel at the solid support DJT has fashioned is the unsaid story of how the Democratic party lost the manufacturing line workers (their families and friends as well) year after year. Their realignment from the Democratic party to the Republican party to DJT amounted to the Democratic party conceding large geographic areas to the Republicsn party. The concequences of which was largely ignored by the Democratic party in its three decade long quest to poll well in major metropolitan areas and its focus on the Presidential elections. The Democratic party has months, perhaps only weeks, to fashion its 2018 election cycle message to something far more compelling than "No more Trump". And realize its 2018 message is the first of many election cycles to come to restore the confidence and support of the manufacturing line workers, their families and their friends.
5
To All Dissenters: Love is Blind.
3
Apparently, some people can't be saved from themselves....
4
Clearly, for Trump, the real purpose of the tariffs, is to force people to come to him and ask for (read as "buy") favors. "Kleptocracy 'R Us", at its best.
When you are a total crook, the whole world is a giant banana peel. Trump got a taste of that, when he met with Putin. Years ago we chanted "Peace Now", the current chant should be "Slip Now".
2
Where ignorance is bliss, it's folly to be wise. DJT supporters are proud of their ignorance but don't want to be reminded of it. They know that they are a powerful lobby and are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. We just blew 240+ years of a powerful democratic free society. It's not going to get better unless the rest of us get a backbone. VOTE!!!
1
Reminds one of the Bolsheviks who agreed they had to be liquidated because of their errors.
4
Let's see if these folks maintain their stiff upper lip in the unemployment line.
I suppose it's way too much to expect, but I wonder if these folks will ever draw a straight line from other countries' tariffs on U.S. made goods to the Likely Trump supporters they'll hurt. That's who's being targeted.
3
Look, the US has taken advantage of the economies of the world for too long, and Donald Trump is going to correct that imbalance.
By removing the US as a viable trade partner for the rest of the world he is allowing international trade to rebalance and flow around the American monolith.
So go ahead, close those borders, and the world will suffer from short term pain, but long term economic health.
The reason that the American economy is so huge is its disproportionate draining of economic resources from other countries, so removing it from the equation will help everyone, except of course the US economy.
But hey, he was elected by Americans, so that must be what they want.
5
I'm sure that Trump is just basking in the golden shower of all this working-class adulation.
6
Recall, please, our Very Stable Genius' proclamation about his ability to "shoot somebody in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose one supporter." Blind faith, Nazi-like fervor with no consideration whatsoever for fact or reason. That's what's pushing the buttons.
3
As long as he’s Making American White Again and deporting people who’re “takin errr jerbs”, they will remain faithful to him
6
When you watch too much Fox “news” you lose that part of your brain that’s responsible for critical thinking.
10
Oh, yes. The brilliant and inscrutable Mr. Trump--a veritable trade and manufacturing genius--has a vast and secret and efficacious negotiating scheme in mind, which he has not revealed to the world yet. Will he bring his plan down from the mountain on tablets? Will he tell us about it in a sermon from the top of a hill?
And these workers who are Trump supporters must do as the WWII Brits did, and bravely carry on, since the Trump critics and the notion of free trade are analogous to the Nazis and Italian fascism. In the short term, things will suck. In the long term, Trump and his master plan will make everything better for the allies.
And Trump's 3,000+ lies and his manifest unfitness are just a little bit of "bending the truth" or are just Trump not sugarcoating things for those of us who cannot bear straight talk and the unfiltered truth.
My heavens.
10
You can't cure stupid and stupidity is believing Trump will help anyone but himself.
6
People are so gullible. Lol.
4
This attitude is so common there is phrase coined to describe it known since the 12th century: you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.
And when you lose your job, you may be surprised to find how much of the social safety net has been gnawed away by Trump and his ilk to pay for tax cuts given away to the robber barons.
You wanted laissez-faire capitalism. Now you have it in spades. Serves you right.
5
The promise that Trump tariffs will benefit the middle class at some point in the future is the same trickle down economic pie in the sky con game that Republicans have been running for the last 50 years. And these people fell for it AGAIN! Will they never learn?
11
How many of these workers bought toys or clothes on Amazon? Why protect the manufacturing jobs and not the service jobs? Poor ToysRUs and Sears workers, they get no sympathy. Just bankruptcy. Should we outlaw machines, which have drastically cut manufacturing jobs? Why not protect these jobs?
In January 2017, the incoming president had in hand a great gift to American workers, TPP; he abandoned this opportunity to drastically lower barriers throughout the Pacific, except for China which would have been isolated. Instead, the other 11 countries went ahead, without the US; then the EU and Japan ink a monumental trade deal.
Instead, we have an escalating trade war that has and will continue to hurt workers and consumers. We have violated WTO and will be sued, successfully, for doing so. And China, as a dictatorship, is better positioned to win this war of attrition.
7
I guess there is no hope for the hard-core trump supporters. Their minds are closed to anything negative about him even though it's the truth and his "truth" will hurt them both in the short term and the long run.
I wonder if they will feel the same way when and if the plant has to close down because of trump's high tariffs?
9
“The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,”
How do these steel processing workers know when Trump bends the truth and when he doesn't? Or when he is lying to them and when he is being factual? Seems magical. I was brought up that if you are not truthful, you got nothing. If someone lies about one thing, then they are willing to lie about anything and everything.
It seems Trumpsters I've talked with have a sense of desperation about their future. They latch onto the parts of tweets that sound rosy for them without considering that some or all of it may be a lie. They seem to prefer to remain hyped on emotion rather then thinking things thru and considering the consequences. They do not know what the plan is or even if there is a plan. Oh, but that doesn't matter because this will all be over in a week or so when the rest of the world rolls over and capitulates and then we win!
What exactly is it that they win? You hear the "short-term pain for long-term gain" meme a lot but what will it mean to them? How much pain over how long a period? What will be their gain? Will they come out ahead? If they do not come out ahead (more work, higher pay, better benefits, etc.) then their short-term pain investment will not pay them dividends.
Desperate people are more easily manipulated lied - they will do anything. Desperate people are more easily lied to - they will believe anything.
9
Blue collar people are ALWAYS willing to sacrifice for the greater good because sacrifice is all they have known for the past 40 years. The position of CEO Jones is more striking. He should know that the permanency of these raw material tariffs will ultimately doom his company. And of course CEOs in preferred sectors like finance are never asked to sacrifice anything. They have forgotten how.
6
"I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,” said Bronson Jones, a part-owner of the company and its chief executive. “I’m looking at what’s best for the national economy. The U.S. has been taken advantage of for too long.”
Right you are. By supporting a president with zero understanding of economics or anything else you are not looking at what's best for Banner. Also, the U.S. has been taken advantage of for too long; that would be ever since Trump was elected. However, if you think you are looking at what's best for the National economy you are in for a rude awakening.
12
Donald Trump's tariffs have already cost Banner Metals 2 jobs, the people who were going to be hired to run the new machine they now cannot afford to buy. Banner also had to cancel the order they had for the new machine, costing other workers at another plant loss of work. They most likely had a deposit for that machine, which they probably lost too. And they're scrambling to buy the steel needed, at inflated cost, to keep their production lines running. I have a hard time understanding how this is good for The United States Of America.
17
If I had been a reporter for this article I would have asked all the interviewees if they have ever heard the name, Peter Navarro. I would suspect they had not. But the significance of the question would relate to their understanding of who is the architect and designed the architecture of their future. I would then ask if they knew the source of the rhetoric that would determine their ‘s and their family’s future. Sadly, their belief that Trump with all his pontifications will be their economic savior has led them to become a group of cult-like followers. The Bible for Trump’s preaching on the China trade is, in fact, Navarro’s book Death by China: Confronting the Dragon - A Global Call to Action. Just as Jesus built his church on Peter Simeon, Trump is building his financial temple on Peter Navarro with Larry Kudlow, Carl Icahn and host of other financial fisherman to round out his collection of disciples who are not only radicalistic but predatory opportunists. In Trump’s Temple, aka the White House, the moneychangers have been welcomed in and are the core of the Sect. In his Cross of Gold speech William Jennings Bryan when referring to the Gold Standard said, "you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold". In this day and age, Trump is crucifying the American economy on a cross of steel.
6
"If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it?" You do know that's wealth distribution, right? Wonder what these guys thought during the passage of the Affordable Care Act.
8
Hopefully we see an update on these workers at this factory in December 2018 and again July of 2019. Yes, please, let's have an update in a few months, along with updates on the farmers who said they can weather a year or so of tariffs.
Perhaps they will still be in business; perhaps not. We'll just have to wait and see.
They obviously believe that President Trump is pushing tariffs in an effort to make a more level field for American producers. They are also betting their futures on Mr. Trump being successful, despite his failures in business.
They are also betting that the rest of the world will not simply start trading around us.
7
@L.E.
Believe that trump is asking to bail out the farmers.
1
Where are these people getting their news? If they are listening to Fox News they will get the Administration spin. Are they informed? When they say this is the first President to take a stance on trade they are clearly uninformed...ever heard of the TPP? These are people who want to believe that voting for Trump was a good thing, even in the face of evdence to the contrary.
6
Their attitudes are perfectly reasonable considering that most of them have been voting for republicans for decades despite the damage republicans have done to the economy. They never learn and always vote against their interests. No one has been able to explain that disconnect.
9
The trade war barely began. It is way too early to tell how serious and deep the damages will be. Who would have thought that the Vietnamese war lased that long, and the Vietnamese politicians so stubborn and refused to budge. China, EU, Canada and Mexico are much larger than Vietnam. Wait for a couple of years, then we can access the damages and ask the supporters again if it is worth it.
3
Its difficult for me to understand people like Mr. Jones. He needs foreign sources due to certifications required by end users, and can't source domestically, yet he still supports this ridiculous trade war. He can only lose. No new supply is going to come locally. Not to mention that the notion that we've been cheated is ridiculous. Our GDP has been growing for decades. Economies are global, and that is a good thing for everyone.
11
Here's what I don't yet understand. We keep hearing about how America has gotten a raw deal in trade. Hence the President's tariffs. Can someone please explain what that raw deal has been and how it has hurt our economy. I don't understand how people blindly follow someone's statement without them explaining the basis for it. And to their own detriment at that.
8
@emily
"Can someone please explain what that raw deal has been and how it has hurt our economy?"
More aptly, can Trump please explain it? All he ever does is make sweeping, superficial statements, and no one ever asks him to articulate. He was a sitting duck in the debates (Nafta is a terrible deal. The Iran deal is a terrible deal. We can make much better deals. Blah, blah, blah.), and could have been exposed then for the know-nothing carnival barker he is. It confounds me to no end how he continues to get away with it, and how his supporters continue to lap it up.
4
I guess it depends on what one means by "sacrifice." An argument could be made that these Trump supporters are willing to sacrifice civility, decency, the global environment and America's good standing in the world on the altar of their perceived personal gain.
24
Everyone at Banner Metals, as well as Trump supporters in general, would do well to watch the clip of Trump hawking his shirts and ties and ranting about our trade policies on Letterman back in 2012. When Letterman points out that the shirts are made in Bangladesh, Trump replies, "We employ people in Bangladesh. That's good. They have to work to." If that doesn't expose him for the total fraud he is, I don't know what would. If, after watching this, the people interviewed in this article still believe he's looking out for their interests, as well as the greater good of the country, then they are, sadly, dupes of the highest order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYoOPgeTMQc
20
More likely, tariffs on raw material imports means that manufactured goods will be make outside the country and imported without tariffs.
It is beginning to sound like this tariff thing is just part of a plot to move even more manufacturing overseas.
7
I believe that these people believe Trump will out bluff our economic competitors in this trade war. The problem with that assumption has been shown by how Trump has been suckered by both North Korea and Russia. Everyone in the world now knows that Trump is a weak bully. Nobody in China is going to cave based on how North Korea shucked Trump and his administration. Nobody in the EU is going to cower based on how Trump bowed to Putin.
11
If these workers enjoys their work loading steel rolls in Ohio and does not mind if their president (not mine), digs deep into their pockets with his dumb tariffs distractions, then, they deserve to reap the rewards, whatever the out-come maybe, even the loss of their jobs because, people who are thoughtless and dimwitted who knowingly hear lies, see greed and follow blindly deserve to lose everything.
16
A what stuns me most about this article is that a bunch of people with this level of intelligence were running a going concern in the first place. Seems like a matter of time that they'd be out of business anyway, tariffs or not. We'll see how their attitudes change when they are on welfare lines waiting for their checks. Oh, ugh, darn, sorry, Trump's trying to do away with that too.
9
And you can bet these tariffs aren't hitting Trump in the pocketbook, unless, I'd bet, to make him more money so he can go bankrupt a sixth time.
4
Maybe these workers' wake up call will be when they are denied SNAP and other government benefits that are disappearing. They may realize that their jobs were not taken by the Brown People. But I doubt it.
17
Tomorrow’s headline is going to be about small town Trump supporters who are willing to give their own children’s blood to feed Trump’s. Because sacrificing to the guy who has vampire spawn and “goes for the jugular” will make America great. Enough with the human interest stories about the cultists!
15
These folks are going to lose more than they will gain, if they gain anything. Having blind support for someone is never good. That's what Germany did with Hitler and we know how that story ended. America will never be the way it was back in the 50s. Those days are gone and the workers who keep worrying about "someone" taking their jobs should try and stop thinking that way. They are going to lose far more as in healthcare, taxes, etc., that they will ever gain with DJT's tactics. Its simply wrong.
13
Let me get this straight....business was strong, and now with the tariffs, the business needs to put expansion on hold, including additional hires? This is good?
Good luck to you all when orders cannot be fulfilled and you lose all of your customers....I'm sure that it will be good for the country overall, right?
Keep telling yourselves that backing a racist misogynistic amoral person, who has only taken from everyone his entire life, is going to somehow show you the love and affection that you give to him blindly.
Oh wait....he will be cutting your food stamps and Medicaid, and Medicare, and finally your social security because, you know, because you should all be working at least until 75 now that lifespans are on the rise!
20
Trump voters know they can't win, so they're focused on making everyone else lose instead. Who cares if I have no health insurance, he's got the liberals upset. They don't care how much they suffer but they're hell bent on bringing the rest of us down with them.
16
What I don’t understand here... aren’t these the same people that eschewed the idea of shared cost for healthcare and social net programs but they are willing to lose jobs and money for the “unknown” possibility for ‘jobs’.
The mental gymnastics that people do to themselves is exhausting to even consider sometimes...
(and let’s be clear here any job creation these days by companies are not ‘good’ paying jobs unless they are comparing it to working at a fast food chain. The data clearly shows that the companies threw some money at their employees with the ‘tax’ cut but only really bought back their own stock to give even more money to their investors)
16
"Founded in 1921 as a tool-and-die producer, the company has added eight workers in the last couple of years, bringing its work force to 38. "
That says it all, "The last couple of years". Thank you Obama for turning around a potential Great Depression. Trump is riding on your success and filling his (and his wealthy friends') pockets by sabotaging your recovery programs including de-regulation of environmental and financial protections.
18
It is crazy to read the justifications Trump supporters have for everything Trump does. They worship him like a king, plain and simple. If Trump asked them for all of their money to invest in the wall, they’d give it to him. We are learning some really wild human psychology lessons in the early 3rd millennium.
20
Trump's only talent is being a master con man.
His supporters will only realize this when it's far too late.
Personally, when all this comes to its inevitable end, I'd like to see Trump tarred and feathered.
14
Wait a minute. I thought Republicans worship at the altar of the Free Market.
Hypocrisy, anyone?
11
@jrHear, hear!
3
To all those at Banner Metals: Blind faith in your leaders could and probably will lead to your unemployment. Best of luck.
11
Too many have drank the Koolaide. To honestly think that Trump's tactics are going to "Make America Great Again," shows how deluded so many are. When they are out of work I wonder how many will still believe the charlatan occupying the Oval Office. I wonder whether they would trust someone that they were in daily contact who constantly lied. Would any trust the word of someone who would believe Putin over the word of those in charge of our intelligence agencies. Have American ever behaved in this manner before?
12
I guess these well-meaning folks are living in the Land of the Voluntarily Blind. Sad.
10
Misguided patriotism is what I sense in a lot of the reactions quoted here: we're at war and we won't let them get the better of us. Waving the flag and singing "God Bless America," works just fine until you lose your job. And while a few jobs are created at steel plants, tens of thousands of jobs are lost in plants that manufacture durable goods and businesses that install them, inflation rises, and the price of soybeans has fallen through the floor, endangering the livelihood of people in the agricultural heartland.
Democrats should start focusing on these real economic hardships, rather than touting pie-in-the-sky plans for universal health care and free college tuition for all.
1
@Wilton Traveler - Medical costs have been the leading cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. and you can't hold down a job if you're sick.
I'm not sure how you missed this but well educated people earn more money.
11
@Wilton Traveler
Not just college but trade schools. Do you know how much a welder earns. What about a lineman or the techs who work on the wind turbines. They all need training.
4
This seems to follow similar trajectories of many totalitarian regimes ended in utter chaos and destructions ultimately in history.
Even as the U.S. is entering into the 1st phase, Venezuela is playing out its consequences.
Humans are so malleable and easily manipulated, who need Putin when you have Trump?
7
Funny...except for the fact that they did not feel compelled to ask the rest of us if we feel like sacrificing at the altar of their cult leader, especially if we fervently disagree with his trade wars built around tariffs.
After all, trade wars of this sort have a dubious, non-productive history if one took the time to do the actual research.
But, I understand, real educations and the rational world are in short supply in Trumpworld and this is what happens when you take the word of a con man and former host of Celebrity Apprentice.
You begin to believe in the con, then if it fails, blame everyone else but themselves.
12
It's really amazing how short sighted people can be when it comes to discarding boundaries and norms, checks and balances in service to a perceived interest. "He's going for the jugular, which is typical Trump style." If people accept and reward this, then it is an historical inevitability that eventually the jugular under attack with be theirs.
10
Paying more for raw materials and loosing access to a huge market: strange sort of Win/Win.
10
I am not surprised. Middle class America began this descent during the Reagan years. Still I rarely hear someone who’s income stagnated in the 80s admit or perhaps recognize the cause of their economic demise. Drinking the gop koolaid has led to rejection of healthcare reforms, free public education, and the wall between church and state advised by Jefferson.
14
The key points for workers in manufacturing are their good, union-size salaries, which, despite high employment, are not coming back, it seems. The bosses have mystified them with tariffs, while the bosses continue to outsource, amass profits, and support the Koch brothers' obsession with tax cuts, a shredded safety net, union busting, weak government, and deregulation. It is telling that the article does not spell out what exactly workers think trade negotiations should push for.
13
Well, I'm in manufacturing. Non-union machine shop doing prototype/tooling/short run production. I'm about $7/hour above Union wage for a Journeyman machinist in my area working in the Defense Industry. We don't need some Union Rep telling us we have to work Willy over there with the drinking problem, because he's been there for 30 years. We also don't need illegal aliens coming in here saying they'll do our jobs for $12/hour and they don't need benefits. Or workers comp insurance. For some reason, you guys seem to want that. I guess you would rather hire a $12/hour guy, than a $35/hour guy, even though he is not here legally. Tell us the real reasons you want them here. It isn't to help them.
@BorisRoberts
Am so confused by your remarks. Are you claiming you and your fellow machine shop workers do NOT have or want "benefits" or "workers comp insurance"? In a non-union shop it's difficult to see how basic workplace benefits and protections are secured. Do enlighten us.
@BorisRoberts
You are lucky to be in CA, try working in a Right to Work State.
That's today's conservatives for you. Too uniformed and too incurious to be able to discern the truth. Too brainwashed to vote in their own self-interest. Too ignorant to see that the Trump is using them. Too dogmatic to realize the lying GOP has never been their friend. Too hypocritical to realize their own failings, and too hidebound to change.
4
Look at the sickly pallor of these aged souls. Doesn't matter what their opinion is. They won't be around for long.
3
"But a vast majority of economists argue that over all, tariffs cost more jobs than they create."
Yes - those liberal economists got it all wrong again. All this winning's got my head spinning.
5
Who makes the laser cutting machine? They just lost an order. The "short-term" pain is not just this company's. A bigger oiece if a much smaller pie may not turn out to be such a great bargain.
11
Trump tells these people that winning trades wars are easy, tarrifs are good, and America has been played for a sucker for before he came along to save us— and these poeple believe him.
• Do they know most if not everything he says about trade is wong? no.
• Do they do any research? No.
• Would they support policies that take money out of their pocket and put their jobs in jeopardy if a Democrat pursued them? Of course not!
Trump lies but talks tough, and they love it.
Trump has an R after his name, and that makes him their leader, so they follow him blindly.
During his campaign, Trump said he loves the uneducated. It was one of the few times he was telling the truth.
As bad as Trump is for this country—and he is disasterously dangerous—these people will still be with us. They are, by far, our biggest problem.
12
"The US has been taken advantage of for too long" Yes. I see that. Exploiting China and other countries for cheap labor. Complaining about illegal immigrants, yet hiring them to do the work spoiled Americans won't do. Typical Trumpians. When the truth slaps you in the face, Double Down.
7
@Me
How many workers is Trump bringing in for businesses
It is obvious that we are M.A.G.A. Women, minorities, gays, the environment etc have all been put in their place. Smoke those cigarettes and swill that beer. We are winning.
3
To the Trump base:
"We are at war with Eastasia; we've always been at war with Eastasia, we've never been at war with Eurasia"!
To those working at the "Ministry of Truth" (Limbaugh, Fox News?): We are on double shifts, continue to change history!"
Sad! Who sad it couldn't happen here?
3
Please go back to the plant and speak to them again in six months. How many are still working full time or have they had to work partime which eats into their benefits?
5
Trump sacrifices for these people too. He is only able to play golf 3 days a week as president instead of the previous 7 he used to enjoy.
10
Some people are unshakable in their belief that the earth is flat and chocolate milk comes from brown cows. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of their leader for the time being. VOTE VOTE VOTE!
8
These people care nothing for the national economy. They would deny health care to the poorest of individuals in a heart beat. They have no interest in any one except following their bigotry and their cult leader.
5
My word for the workers. You are pathetic. You will find in the end that the lower level worker remains the lower level worker, and it is this kind of mentality that is partly to blame. Lack of education is the key. And all Trump's promises will not raise some to a higher level. Sadly these people just don't get it, nor do they see the huge damage this President is doing to America. Forget the economy, which goes up and down...I say it has nothing at all to do with Donald Trump.
3
Please don't be too hard on these factory workers at this machine shop in OH. In OH and in PA and WV, if you work in a small or medium sized manufacturing business, you had better mouth the line of the owners and support Trump. These are non-union shops mostly, and in that environment you had better keep your political beliefs to yourself and keep your mouth shut ---or risk your employment. I think that is a more important factor - more so than many of the commentators who assume that these employees are blindly following Trump. There are many employees who resist and are worried in forced silence.
9
Republicans believe in free trade. Are they all idiots then? Okay they are lucky the business they work in got customers with deep pockets. But what about soybean farmers and diary farmers who find that they might lose their markets overseas permanently due to high tariffs? People who eat soybeans and eat cheese don't have deep pockets. But if the market to sell them such goods is removed then U.S. farmers will suffer.
1
@Wayne
Trump is saying he wants money to bail out the farmers.
1
@K DKD ironic I heard that a few hours after writing my comment. And I don't claim to be prescient. I like to believe I think logically. The company featured in this article of course they can delay that extra machine and two more workers because Airbus, Boeing and other aircraft manufacturers will still buy their products. But if China decided to open up a new soybean market with another country the soybean farmers who support Trump will most likely permanently lose their market in China. And so will others.
trump followers see this as a worthy sacrifice.
They only voted for him to build a wall (from brown people south of the border) and “get their country back” from the black man who had the nerve to get elected president.
6
You can bet that when these folks get laid off, they’ll find a way to blame the democrats..
9
It's disconcerting but blind loyalty is taught in school, church and now politics. When does Be True To Your School turn into Facism?
2
There's no accounting for stupidity. There never has been and, doubtless, there won't be in the future as long as Trump is involved.
7
Do you think the 38 will read any of these comments? And then think?
5
Hillary offered job retraining; trump offered the false promise of bringing coal back. What can Democrats promise that would be more attractive if job retraining is off the table? Stopping the production of natural gas?
3
While I always have sympathy for any people who are put out of work, what they think the big picture is is only the big picture for their particular jobs. Robots and AI are likely to do away with those sooner rather than later and the big picture they're looking at isn't big enough. "Bend the truth." Trump doesn't bend the truth. He never uses the truth. I'm glad they think he's tough. Many of us disagree and find him a very weak tough guy, the kind that likes to hit people to feel bigger but apparently isn't satisfied by it so he finds more people to hit. I'm sure there are many things that would make trade fairer, but for one or two businesses, not likely. May we all survive his stolen presidency.
6
so, the boss was paid $8 an hour in a menial job 24 years ago and now pays machine operators $15 to $20 an hour! The facts are also the company was doing well, just like many others, during the Obama turn around but now believe it is all due to Trump. Faux 'news' is doing a good job.
9
For a long time people like these have voted against their own self interest. They would rather be martyrs than actually live the American Dream. For them, the opportunity to shout and accuse any minority or immigrant or LGBTQ person is worth their paycheck. It is what gives them a life because without that, they have nothing. These people just got their 15 minutes of fame. Maybe someone will make a "reality" show about and/or with them (preferred). What they won't realize is that the show is more likely to mock them than cheer them. But they don't care, they just want to have a chance in the spotlight to make their lives meaningful. Best response? Ignore them.
2
"Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally." That's it isn't it? I smell Fox News in this. If your worldview is entirely based on the lies and hypocrisy of Fox News, it is difficult to think critically. There are tens of millions of voters in the GOP that think the same as Mr. Jackson. There will be no positive outcome from a tariff war, and then there is the coming real war with Iran in order to deflect the interest in the investigation of the Trump Administration. How will these same voters feel when their sons and daughters begin dying in the Middle East for yet another senseless war? Will they finally wake up to the con? Mr. Jackson's opinion suggests not.
1
"If" it comes out of my paycheck so be it". We're still in the hypothetical stage. Wait until it actually happens, or the business closes. They'll be howling then.
As the person said below, they haven't figured out yet that Trump's a pathological liar? That the only person he's looking out for is himself, and he'll change his stance in a minute if his interests change.
He isn't interested in protecting workers, but I guess they'll have to experience some hardship for themselves to believe it. It's easy to hum "stand by your man" while things are still going ok.
2
The war for votes is one of culture more than policy.
6
We don't need brash talk and playing chicken on trade. We do need policies that ameliorate the negative effects of globalism. That is not what Trump advocates, nor what his Republican cronies vote for.
We're suffering from our faith in free markets and our emotional commitment to individual responsibility. It's touching that these people are still willing to suffer personally to get to a better place. Too bad they are so poorly informed.
3
If the inhabitants of the richest country in the world, the people who consume the most natural resource, think they need a better deal from so many, much poorer people, the world is doomed.
3
If it comes OUT of his paycheck that's okay? How about if his job is cut and he gets no paycheck? One has to wonder if he will be feeling so patriotic.
2
What these people refuse to accept is that their "life appointed blue collar gigs" are over. You can thank robots and greedy CEOs for that. No fool con man can reset the board just because he's "brash" aka loud and ignorant. Stop voting against your own interests and work with Democrats on infrastructure and wind farm builds. If you truly care about our nation, you'll stop the dismantling of it.
3
I'm sure the workers will feel the same way when they are laid off in the near future. For the good of the whole, let the few be sacrificed. Tisk,tisk.
2
Trump does not have a trade plan - he is driven by ignorance and arrogance and advisors from the right fringe of economics. People who still support him are cultists who also do not understand global economics. The historical pattern continues - republicans damage the economy and democrats have to clean up the mess.
3
Maybe the greatest skill of a con-man is the ability to convince the targets of his scams that everything is going exactly as planned. Even beyond the point that all logic defies their faith. By the time they wake up and gather the pitchforks and torches, he's packed his suitcase and hopped a train. Get it straight people, there are no band uniforms and no 76 trombones. You've been had.
4
People are very loyal to Trump because they see the pervasive anti american progressivism as the worst result.
@Saints Fan: please explain what 'progressive anti american progressivism' is????
2
@Saints Fan - Really? What exactly is anti American about equality, civil rights, a clean and safe environment, good infrastructure and education?
2
@Saints Fan
My comment is an answer to the question, "Why are Trump's base so loyal". This seems of particular interest to the left.
I am not addressing the validity of the belief. Just trying to help you understand the motivation.
Someone made $$$$$$ with the "old" system of free trade. Did prior US governments allow big corporations to hammer unions and chase down the lowest possible labor costs, Yes is the answer.
Republicans in particular have been attacking blue collar workers for decades and getting away with it too....
Now, suddenly, in 2016, a non-political candidate (business man) comes along and promises to make the past 4 decades of worker beat downs simply disappear, and people believe him?
Trade imbalances are not what Trump says they are, and building a wall around the USA will allow us to go backwards, not forward, as the rest of the planet moves on without us.
All over a lie
4
Trump promised to protect American's and their jobs. Wake up Ohio. The true promise he made was to protect the super rich. The Billionaire Boys Club. Supporters of him say " he's a good business man" He INHERITED his money. I wish some artist would do a caricature of him as a court jester doing his tweets. It would be so fitting . I beg the Republican party to remember we have great issues at stake. Protect and serve Americans , not some fool.
1
A "trimmed" paycheck is one thing. Losing your job, losing your farm, losing your health insurance, losing Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, breathable air, drinkable water, and access to healthcare services when you or a member of your family needs it, is another.
But a tax cut for the ultra-rich 0.1% and corporations is fine. Drinking the Fox News "Kool Aid" every day will make you feel better.
7
We're living in a country full of people experiencing Stockholm syndrome.
10
Trumps's squandered $72M of taxpayers' dollars on his golf trips, promoting his properties and enriching himself as he's done so. But you, the average worker, are OK taking a wage cut? Uh, OK.
Let me know when you figure out he doesn't care a spec about anyone but himself and his mega-rich buddies
4
To paraphrase Mencken.
Trumpism: The haunting fear that everyone, everywhere is getting a better deal.
Here is a company that has profited mightily from worldwide trade, provided good local jobs and been a valuable resource to top domestic exporters, and yet greed, insecurity, idiocy, or all 3 has convinced them that they are the victims. I cannot fathom how this possible and for that at least I am grateful.
3
It’s sort of comforting in a way, to read that they aren’t all selfish, just blindly devoted to a madman who would throw them under the bus for a Big Mac if it suited him. Okay, not all THAT comforting, but a bit.
1
This article seems to demonstrate the power of propaganda. Not one person indicates a knowledge of what the "long-term benefit" will be, but they like the way Dear Leader talks. They parrot his talking points. Next article, consider asking them what exactly is the long-term benefit, what jobs will be "coming back" to the US, etc.
5
It would be immensely valuable for political science research if the NYT would conduct a survey of Trump voters, asking them whether they would see anything wrong with Trump sidelining or just abolishing congress, as being just a bunch of troublemakers. Or the supreme court, for that matter, as a “stronger Trump executive” (read: Trump as dictator) would make it much easier to get things done. The results of such a survey might be either depressing or enlightening.
2
So...their support for Trump has little to do with economics and a whole lot to do with racism and xenophobia.
2
So, how's all this working out for the coal miners that Trump was going to help?
2
My God these people have TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome). Even after his counterproductive trade policy harms them, they are still “all in” with the man destroying their livelihood. No wonder many describe this as a cult.
3
They're playing in the band as the Titanic goes down.
2
Please more stories about Trump voters and how they still support Trump. The only Americans who matter.
China has a 25 % tarriff on American cars we have a 2.6 % tariff on Chinese cars. What r Chinese cars sold in the US ?buicks,Cadillacs Volvo’s .buicks were the cars owned by the last emperor And by Sun Yat Sen. buicks have a special Cachet in China. 800000 buicks are made and sold in China. 200000 in America president obama saved GM. Now GM is importing. Buicks and electric Cadillac s into America. If we send a Buick to China there’s a 25% tarriff if they send buicks to America there’s a 2.6% tarriff. The EU has a 10%tariff on America cars. We have a 2.6 % tarriff on EU cars. The Chinese own Volvo. And just bought 10% of Daimler. Mercedes. The US taxpayers subsidized Buick making cars in China .we have a 350 billion dollar trade deficit with China..a 150 billion $ trade deficit with the Eu. 500billion a year going out of this country,
A growing number of you and yours will be unable to obtain employment in the upcoming generations, due to both outsourcing high level skills overseas and the increasing sophistication of technology, particularly in the area of Artificial Intelligence. Maybe then, you will have some sympathy for folks who have lost their jobs as a result of past trade policies. No doubt, you will expect guaranteed incomes by then.
2
In thinking about this article, I realized that the workers still loyal to Trump are willing to look at the long term and sacrifice in the short term. That is exactly what they should be doing when it comes to environmental regulations they don't like or having to reinvent yourself if your work disappears, or taking the time to get acquainted with a real news source. Interesting that they are willing to overlook the cruelty, the xenophobia and the lies while they support this so-called President.
7
I think I know why Trump's base is so loyal. It may be because, if they were in the White House, whatever he does is what they would do.
2
Banner Metals will have to raise its prices as the prices of steel and aluminum rise. At some point the airlines they supply may choose another supplier who has lower prices. And that may be the end of Banner Metals.
Perhaps patriotic satisfaction will ease at first the sting of unemployment for the former employees, but at some point they'll be hungry and cold. And there will be no social safety net; their Republican leaders took it away.
This will all have a no-good ending, as my Russian friend used to say.
8
@Duane McPherson They'll either have to raise their prices or slash their employee's hourly wages. After that the longer lead times for materials to arrive and turn into finished products will hurt their bidding for jobs to keep employee's retained. But if their CEO isn't even thinking of that outcome why should any of them OR us.
3
Let's see. All of 38 employees at Banner Metals, who continue to support Trump even though his tariffs are hurting their employer's profits. But will they continue to support Trump if he costs them their jobs?
4
What exactly doesn’t he like? “The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,” Mr. Sayre said.
I would say to Mr. Sayre, lead with that.
Most cons always have a 'truth' in things they say and a lot of them are bullies because they are trying to close a deal before they are found out.
Ever hear of the so-called confidence people.
2
Stop the misleading "Trump support endures" messages that give the impression his support is deep and wide. There are only 38 employees at Banner Metals!
5
@Midwest moderate
36.
“I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,” said Bronson Jones, a part-owner of the company and its chief executive.
So the CEO and part owner isn't considering what is best for HIS company? That's totally insane. Who does he answer to for that type of comment? With the company's rising raw material cost and longer lead times to get items finished it may be a year or less before the layoffs begin.
7
@Jeff: Yes, the CEO seems to have lost sight of his fiduciary responsibilities. You might say he's trump-drunk.
6
@Jeff
And we can bet Trump is ALWAYS considering what is best for HIS company, HIS family, HIS personal bank account. Tariffs weren't put on either Trump's or Ivanka's products produced in China, sold in the U.S.
Trump loves the 'little people' who sacrifice for his 1%. And insanely, they seem to love him.
4
"Tariffs Trim a Factory’s Profit, but Loyalty to Trump Endures"
Interestingly put, however shouldn't it be loyalty to the lawfully elected President of the United States, and to the United States in general?
@Tired of hypocrisy
Blind loyalty to a raving idiot is not freedom. It's fascism. Blind loyalty to a country isn't patriotism: it's just blind. If we cannot conceive of a better country, how do we fashion it? Criticism is the basis of progress.
8
@Tired of hypocrisy - Trump is busy polluting our air and water, eroding civil liberties, damaging the economy and endangering our national security, all while lining his own pockets. No one should be loyal to that kind of person and activity.
4
No. Loyalty is a Fascist concept.
As a counterexample, review the conflicts and behaviors (which you call, falsely, hypocrisy) between and among Hamilton, Jefferson, Burr, Madison, and other Framers/Founders during the early days of the Republic. Factions had their own media (the halcyon days of the Fairness Doctrine had not yet come... and gone). Yellow, biased journalism was rampant. Accusations of treason and disloyalty flew.
2
The cancelation of the cutting machine purchase possibly results in the loss of jobs at the cutting machine factory
7
The president did say it will be short term pain but better for America in the long run.
Sometimes a country has to take a stand and in this instance, this is the time to do it while corporate taxes were cut from 35% to 21%.
When we emerge we will have all parties reduce tariffs and minimize currency manipulation and trade will resume on a more fair and level playing field.
That’s the sorriest rationalization of the tax cut, I’ve yet to hear. There’s utterly no economic evidence for it; as corrupt and fictional a concept as trickle-down/Gilder.
The tax cut transferred wealth from the bottom 75%, to the top 5%. Initially, this money will derive from new debt (US bonds). Eventually, if Ryan and McConnell have their way, it will derive from reductions in SocSec and MediCare benefits.
5
@Albert K Henning
You know little about economics.
Corporations pay taxes and these taxes are included in the sale price paid by consumers. The more taxes corporation pay, the higher the sale price and the duplication of taxation as consumers pay for things with after-tax dollars.
Corporate taxes are bad for this reason. They are really stealth consumer taxes.
Regulated utility companies are obliged to lower rates right away and create immediate benefits to consumers. And this has already happened across America
Corporations through price competition will over time reduce selling prices and benefit consumers.
Economics 101. Thank me.
I have very hard time believing that if the same sacrifices were being asked by Obama, these workers would have be likewise willing to make them. No wonder Trump is still in office.
These workers are being tricked into supporting an agenda which won't benefit them now or in the future and does not align with how the global economy actually works. The Trump / Fox News propaganda machine is in full effect and working far too well.
13
What will be interesting if these contracts ever come back to the US. China, Canada and much of the world will go around the US because we will be too expensive or they will have signed 5-10 year contracts with other countries. Canadians will raise soybean crops to supply China. These companies will move to Mexico, Vietnam etc and not come back. The world will leave America behind. The ‘only me ‘will bite them in the paycheck.
10
If these people think that their jobs can't be moved to another country for cheaper prices, they are fooling themselves to their detriment.
13
So many folks just still don’t get it. President Trump was not elected for his manners. It is exactly his ‘shoot from the hip’ style that his supporters like. It is true that globalization in general, and China in particular, has decimated American manufacturing. To the point where it is a national security concern. We need to be able to produce things like steel, aluminum, and rubber instead of importing it. China has gamed the trading system in their favor time and time again. They have done this in dishonest ways, like routing goods through other countries. If nothing else, this trade war puts China and the world on notice that America is serious about fair trade.
2
I knew the former US Trade Rep for Asian, including China. Your assertion about China’s practices being unfair is simply untrue.
Net-net, China buys our debt, and we buy their stuff. The non partisan committee on US China relations publishes sobering stuff about China. I’m not naive about it. But nothing supports this comment about their trade practices.
6
@Mike L - I'm afraid you don't get it. Trump products are made in China and Trump uses Chinese steel in his construction projects.
Trump isn't shooting from the hip, he is lying each and every day and his lies are being used to harm the very people who voted for him.
4
@Mike L: "We need to be able to produce things like steel, aluminum, and rubber instead of importing it."
Yes but, Banner Steel is a company that manufactures parts for aircraft brakes and seats. The tariffs on raw materials are hurting Banner, as this article explains.
Afraid YOU are the one who doesn't "get it."
2
I'm just sick to death of these stories, NYT. How about interviewing some of the majority in this country who think this guy is the worst thing that ever happened to us? Frankly, the fact that people who were ignorant enough to vote for this con man still support him is a non-story at this point. Move on.
20
If only people had the same devotion to sacrifice for the greater good when the greater good was the preservation of the environments and biodiversity that us and our children's children's generations will be losing.
I guess it shows how progressives could harness that spirit for the true greater good if only they could inspire it.
12
Maybe the most important mention in the article was the postponement of the purchase of a laser cutting machine by Banner. Regardless of anything else, stopping a major investment in a newer technology in a manufacturing business has long-term negative implications. I suspect Bronson Jones knows that the business needs that piece of equipment to compete, reduce the need for additional labor, reduce metal scrap, and increase shop throughout/productivity. Being OK with the negative impacts of tariffs is just another example of cognitive dissonance. Echoing others, wait for the next economic downturn and see what happens.
16
If "free trade" was really "free", the treaties would be able to be written on a postcard. Instead they are thousands of pages long and are in fact the documents of a "managed trade" system where the American worker has been managed out. It's nothing but labor arbitrage. NAFTA, did we hafta? Should we have?
2
While Hillary and, (later), Obama were collecting huge paychecks, (bribes), from Goldman and others in banking, at least Trump was talking down the hedge funds and the banking system. He, at least talked about it, and Hillary and Obama were reaping the profits, (and not talking about it). And I mean talking about things that truly outrage Americans making stagnant wages. All those commenters, mentioning the, "low information voters," at that factory have to realize that Trump got them early, where they said themselves , "I'm with him, the rest are business as usual."
1
@Prant - Where on earth are you getting this from? Have you seen Trump's cabinet?
5
@Prant
How many small businessmen did he stiff or drive into bankruptcy. A lot of the banks would not lend to him because of his business record of bankruptcy so who do you think he turned to, hint, Don jr. bragged about it.
2
Reality is that when steel tariffs went into effect, the domestic steel prices rose drastically. Why? Because they could.
8
How does a playing field that has been tilted in favor of overseas competitors for so long equate to a thriving U.S. business that was about to make a significant capital investment and hire several skilled workers?
15
Like many others, I continue to believe that most of this base didn’t vote for Trump as much as they voted against Hillary and the left’s philosophy.
This base is driven , I believe, by fear of anything or anyone who is , in someway, “different”. Of course, that means race, culture, sexual orientation, etc. Then comes fear’s twin brother...hate.
Not to trivialize it, but, in my case, I really hate hornets, the stinging kind. So, of course, I hate them.
All of this reasoning concerning job loss, etc. is self justified reasoning. At the root is something much more primal, and, has been with us since we first began to walk upright...fear of others who are different.
26
Would Mr Jackson "make a tiny bit of sacrifice " in the way of higher taxes to fund Medicare for all?
24
@Mary Marshall Only if trump wanted it.
1
@Bella: And then only if it benefited Trump and his family.
These are the type that elected Trump and continue to support him no matter what he does and says.Hopefully they are a minority in the U S A come November.If they are not a minority not only his base will pay in the long term ,so will everybody else
13
I don't want to sound elitist, but unfortunately, the less educated in this country have the loudest voice at the moment.
I believe teens should not be allowed to drop out of high school and post high school education needs to be a mix of technical/trade and liberal arts.
While I'm at it, bring back Civics to high school!
30
@CMP
I wish one of our legislators would propose a mandate for, and funding for, an extensive four-year civics program in every high school in the land. I'd happily pay higher taxes for that.
Remedial civics exam for renewal of any drivers license, professional license etc. to make sure adults keep on top of it, too.
Also let's outlaw homeskooling while we are at it.
6
Once again, the "I'm smarter" attitude. Maybe people are just tired of their way of life going away. Maybe they are tired of hordes of illegal aliens driving down wages (there are a lot more illegal aliens swinging hammers, digging ditches, tearing off roofing, etc., than there are picking lettuce), driving down property values (25 people living in a 3 bedroom house, adding 18 cars to one street, definitely lowers home values), driving up rents, and putting unnecessary loads on emergency rooms and social services.
@BorisRoberts - Please provide your source of information about immigrants.
As a number of NYT articles have pointed out, most Americans don't realize how complex a subject trade is and how badly informed Trump is, so as a result their willingness to accept sacrifice is like saying they'll take care of their bad knee by having a neighbor amputate the leg with a saw instead of going to a competent surgeon for a knee replacement. For example, Trump says that Japan and Germany should "start" manufacturing cars in the US, but their companies have already been doing so for many years. Here we might find the real problem. Where do these foreign companies have most of their facilities? In non-union red states, where wages are lower than in Ohio and in the companies' home countries. Over the past 30 years, a lot of American jobs haven't necessarily moved overseas. They've just moved a state or two south.
21
I guess you don't recall the GM scandal/debacle/outrage about the $75/hour union guys? And those other states besides Michigan and Ohio, it isn't like they are paying $5.75/hour (except on a Native American Reservation. I wonder why there is no outcry about that?). The car companies building vehicles in the US all pay a good wage (not quite $75/hour, they would go broke, like the big 3 did under Union scale), they aren't pulling a Wal-Mart on them and expecting them to get food stamps and welfare.
It is ironic that Right-wing Republicans, once the apostles of free markets and untrammeled capitalism ,have ended up sounding like old-school lefties. In their traditional terms, the US has not 'been taken advantage of' in traditional manufactures, it has failed in open competition with other countries. In the same way it has acquired a great lead in new industries.
6
Banner employs 38 people. Banner planned to add two more workers before the steel and aluminum tariffs were announced. The two new jobs will be delayed if not canceled. That's job destruction, not job creation.
The workers interviewed for this article admire and support Trump's bold action on tariffs. Bold action is inspiring but smart action is what counts.
One employee, Mr. Sayre, gave Trump a weak endorsement:
“I never cared much for the way Trump does it, but he’s doing O.K. as far as I’m concerned,” he said. What exactly doesn’t he like? “The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,”
Maybe, just maybe, Trump's supporters are beginning to see through the fog of disinformation.
10
Before you say there is no logic behind the worker’s views, google Stolper-Samuelson Theorem.
Under certain economic conditions and in an economy with only two factors, trade increases the return to a country’s abundant factor and decreases return to its scarce factor. In developed countries, this can mean that capital and high skill labor benefit from trade, but low skill labor can be disadvantaged by trade. Conversely, low skill labor may benefit from protectionism, even though it hurts the economy as a whole.
There are criticisms of this theory and many economists would say that you should still have free trade, but take actions to help those displaced by trade. We’re good at the free trade; not so good at the second part.
I’m not defending Trump’s reckless haphazard approach to trade, but it also isn’t fair to dismiss the concerns of these workers out of hand.
Remember when it was Republicans (capital in Stolper-Samuelson) that argued for unrestricted free trade and Democrats who sided with unions?
Fair trade, not unfettered free trade.
8
"Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
See what happens when Casey's spot come up to bat. I suspect the story will be different when it's not some dollars in a paycheck but the entire job. Hope there's a follow-up story.
25
I hope for a follow-up, too. But I fear it will show unemployment and/or stagnant wages coupled with lower purchasing power as tariffs cause the cost of consumer goods to rise.
6
Unfortunately Mr. Jones’s more accurate quotation would have been: “I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,” said Bronson Jones, a part-owner of the company and its chief executive. “I’m looking at what’s best for the Trump family.”
24
A recent article in the NY Times estimated that the cost of tariffs would range from $24/year for people at the low end of the income range to $141 for those making over $160K per year. This is a small price to pay for the US to get some respect in the world. The Chinese steal our intellectual property and place severe requirements on US Manufacturers if they want to sell in China. It is time someone had the courage to fight back. With Trump you need to accept a lot of bad to get the good.
6
The article you cite only discusses the effect of tariffs that have been enacted so far, which is only the tip of the iceberg. It does not point out that the cost of some imported cars could rise thousands of dollars, nor does it discuss longer term effects of a trade war on the world economy. In the case of Trump, there is only bad and worse, and it just keeps getting worse.
15
the Chinese would let call it "beating your face up to look plump".
1
With Trump you need to accept a lot of bad, a lot of racism, a lot of stupidity, a lot of ignorance, a lot of self-serving, a lot of Russia-loving, a lot of selling out, a lot of duplicity, and a lot of hate for no good reasons at all. Obama never did any of the horrible things Trump has, yet to hear conservatives tell it he was destroying America. Well, now Trump actually is destroying everything America stands for and conservative hypocrites cheer. It would serve them all right to be out of a job come November, especially Republican elected officials.
5
Unfortunately, it seems that many who seem to support Trump and are willing to accept sacrifices do not consider what sacrifices he or those in government around him make - none. They are only looking to make money off the backs of others.
It seems that not enough has been made of his 'work' in Atlantic City. I recall him saying that it was a good project for him; he cared not a whit for the suffering he caused the city, state and residents.
As he works to bankrupt the country, he may make some more green - his only god.
18
This piece well documents the dilemma facing Democrats in upcoming elections: how to appeal to people who are willing to lose it all - their jobs, their homes, their health care - all in unquestioned allegiance to Trump. Their arguments are not based in reason but in a cult-like devotion to a leader who requires only their adoration to feed his insatiable ego. The Democrats will need to be well-versed in intervention techniques.
16
It's unfortunate they still don't understand trade isn't the problem, inequality is.
8
There is nothing so stubborn as ignorance. I’m sorry for these people because their wages will never recover and the jobs will not come.
18
And they’ll probably still support Trump.
2
@Maria Erdo
I'm sorry for us because we'll be getting up every day to go to work to provide their dole when their jobs permanently disappear. And then they will vote against our, and their own, interests over and over again.
Why don't we let their bellies go empty for a change? Maybe if they see their kids crying from hunger, they'll wise up.
1
Donald "Gecko" Trump. Not and economic savior but an economic bully and opportunist. We are all going to wake up with such a hangover...
12
Every Sancho Panza has to make sacrifices for their Don. .. "To dream the impossible dream..."
4
It is rather early in the trade wars and for that reason, we have not seen the full impact(s) yet on each industry and globally. My state has already lost soybean contracts with Canada and Russia and other farm products. Trump wants to put tariffs on German cars too but there is that large BMW plant in SC that exports to the world, so BMW is building a new plant outside the US so it can avoid tariffs in the countries Trump is putting them on. This is bad policy. I meet people like these folks in the article every day - as do you. You cannot change their minds. They will vote against their self interests every time.
31
My home state is right on track to become the Mississippi of the north once these tariffs decimate the auto industry.
4
I hope this company's executives and its workers do a little bit of research into Mr. Trump's alleged business acumen. He's a marketer, primarily, who sells his name (not his business skills) and who made most of his money through inheritance, by threatening his detractors (and even his contractors/colleagues) with lawsuits, and by going into debt.
Is that what the GOP and Trump supporters call great business practices? Really?
Watch your paychecks, gentlemen and ladies of Columbus, Ohio. You'll be kicking yourselves in a few months/years when your plant shuts down and moves to China. Or North Korea. Or Russia.
19
He’s also driven suppliers out of business by refusing to pay them or offering only pennies on the dollar.
4
I would like to see an interview with these same people a year from now...
21
Trump's 25% tax increase - which is what his tariffs are- would make up for the tax policy revisions that significantly reduce taxes for the wealthy if they were not dampening America's economic prospects and lowering the standard of living. The rest of the world has already agreed to route trade around out island of voodoo economics and amoral leadership and fear mongering.
5
Trump will fight till his last donors run out of cash.
6
Only time will tell how this will work out for this small company. When they have to raise their prices to their customers wonder how long that will last.
1
@HJ they are already doomed. Their larger competitors are hoarding the metals they rely on and are disrupting their suppliers. There is no way they can compete on price now
6
Most economists think that at a minimum tariffs create one job lost for everyone it creates and many economists think it does more damage than just that. Are these people,willing to sacrifice their JOBS to "create more jobs"?
4
Odd, as a 1%-er, I'm not sacrificing. In fact, I'll save well into the six-figure range on my taxes this year. So if blue collar workers want to 'patriotically' sacrifice to 'make America great again', so be it. It just seems to me that they might want to look up from FOX News once in awhile and make sure that this war they're fighting is actually occurring. Sure would be a shame if the 'war' turned out to be a bank heist by the GOP.
24
@Mbh1234 If? Don't you mean "when they realize?"
2
Obama had to deal with the failing auto industry ...student loan debacle etc. and managed to keep it all afloat without bankruptcy to slowly improve the economy Trump has taken credit for. Being brash and a bully and annoying allies is not the way to build lasting relationships. It is the story of the Trump Presidential win.Supporters don't like his brash rudeness but believe they will somehow benefit from his bluster and twisting of the truth. By the time they finally see the light of his deception ..it's too late! If any business were run like the Trump Presidency ...they would go bankrupt.There has been more chaos...hirings firings and resignations....while the President ..goes golfing! How could this be called success? The economy has done well recently not because of Trump but in spite of Trump ! A true testament to the work of previous administrations ! The worst President in American history bar none!
16
It is actually sad when we feel people have to “suffer” in order to see our point about this presidency.
And while we talk about manufacturing, the service industry (accounting services, software development) continues to be outsourced to India, Eastern Europe.
So at the end of the day, workers in Ohio and accountants and software developers in the east and west coast want the same, a job, healthcare, and the possibility to live our lives without the fear of a horrible recession. I honestly don’t think the GOP can deliver that. Not to Ohio, not to the northeast/west coast.
10
Great article. Workers like these live in an ecosystem of confusion and fear. They know they are prey to forces they don’t understand or control. They have fierce pride in what they do and their self-reliance. Complex geo-political explanations will go right over their heads and leave them suspicious. Dems need simple slogans like “Tariffs kill jobs” and “America needs work”. How about “American pride”. “Fair pay for an honest day.” I’m serious. Mocking phrases like “flyover states” insult them. And don’t harken back to unions and ultra-liberal issues like gender identity. Forget it. Focus on the economy, on fairness, and on rewarding hard work.
12
@Rob Merrill - Self reliance my foot. They will line up for social services paid for by blue states and they will continue to spout hate speech while they do so.
1
"Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.” "
With all due respect, this is why people continue to "fly over" Columbus, Ohio and other magically thinking Trump strongholds.
13
All 20 major US manufacturing areas are now solidly red. With the economy rolling this great I understand why you need to hype every other single thing Trump does as the end of the world. TDS is real. Seek help.
Solidly red ink, you mean...
3
Since there there was no mention in the article, I wonder what the workers think of Trump and his daughters’s continued use of overseas manufacturing for their goods. Would they still be happy to sacrifice knowing that Ivanka trump still manufactures her clothing line overseas?
15
Will someone please tell these frogs that the pot is on the burner and the flame is lit!
12
I have news for these high school graduates who never got within 10 miles of an economics class. Tariffs are going to cost them their jobs and not bring jobs back overall for the country. Everybody is going to lose. Trump is a fool and so are they for believing him.
19
Sacrificing for the short term for long term gains? Extremely naive! Aiming to keep low-skilled jobs open for the future generation is an absurd proposition! We will just fall behind other countries who keep their borders open to trade and adapt to the inevitable replacement of low-skilled jobs by automation.
We should be educating the future generation to be able to adapt to global competition. Maybe, provide a safety net for the current low-skilled workers who would be unable or unwilling to learn new trades who can potentially lose their jobs to open trades?
7
“If we have to tighten our belts a bit to help the billionaires further enrich themselves, it’s a price we’re willing to pay.”
So reason Trump’s cult. It’s like the poor putting money they can ill afford into the collection plate to contribute to the obscenely wealthy Catholic Church. Except that the Catholic Church is presumably not motivated entirely by self-interest.
10
Big assumption about the church's presumed lack of self-interest. It is time to start taxing churches, as they are nothing but political action committees.
5
@wcdevins
I totally agree. Why should these cults, that have no qualms about meddling in public policy and governance, be exempt from income tax and property tax? I resent that they do their politicking on MY dime.
1
The delusion of people like Jones and Jackson is breathtaking. The U.S. has been taken advantage of for too long.” is based on what data? "That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.” will neither be tiny or create jobs. One of my friends owns a metal fabrication business with the same number of employees as Banner here in the midwest. Prices for raw materials have jumped and supplies have shrunk dramatically. Rather than supplying some large aerospace firms, they supply parts for consumer goods and machinery and all is not well. Boeing and others can temporarily absorb price increases. Producers of consumer goods cannot and the firms they supply are unwilling and unable to pay higher prices and make some small sacrifice. They are already looking abroad for parts suppliers. The best estimates are steel producers will add 80,000 jobs while steel users (including companies like Banner metals) will lose 300,000 jobs and over a much longer time period than just a Trump administration. What kind of trade is that?
14
I think the commenters are failing to understand the rationale of the factory's owners and workers. We live in a Democracy - a system whose core idea is that voters know what is in their best interest. So we need to consider their desperate logic with open minds.
In this case, remove Trump from the equation. Imagine that it was a different president, even Obama, who was sympathetic to the losses suffered by these companies and these individuals because of the massive outsourcing of jobs under the banner of "free trade." Imagine that this hypothetical president was the only person in decades who proposed any solution. Imagine that these individuals are so beaten down and hungry for change that they are willing to listen to anyone who is willing to try a different way.
Ideally, all of this should have come from a Democratic president. Unfortunately, the Democrats have no person who articulates this view. Unfortunately, the only person who articulates this view is a charlatan.
We need homegrown industries for national security - I don't mean just the military. I mean it in the sense of a solid middle class, a safety net, and the wherewithal to pay for it, to preserve the dignity of honest labor and the resulting ability to provide for oneself and one's loved ones.
Mahatma Gandhi would have approved of the risks and sacrifices that these factory workers are taking/making. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadeshi_movement
5
The thing you're missing is that all the sacrifice is at the bottom. It's been that way since the Reagan years. The people at the bottom sacrifice; the people at the top profit. Notice how the business is willing to carve off earnings by his employees in order to maintain his profit (and his earnings). What's worse over the past nearly 40 years is that once the poor had everything taken from them, the theft started on the middle class. While these people are sacrificing, people like Trump are making millions. Where's their sacrifice?
21
@na The first thing that will happen when (not if) Banner can't make payroll is a lot of angst and grief about how jobs were destroyed by tariffs. The second thing that will happen is programs put in place by Democratic administrations will be labored (pun intended) to promote job training; provide basic services (including food stamps; subsidize local, lower-cost colleges, and support basic health services. Third, out-of-work Banner employees will grudgingly use all these, then likely sit in local coffee shops, watch Faux News, and figure out a rationale to blame Democrats for not fixing the jobs crisis. I am torn between empathy and disregard.
8
"The only person who addressed this is a charlatan" because only a liar would propose these self-destructive policies. Obama or any Democrat would never make Trump's moves because they are sheer lunacy.
3
Shouldn’t they all have tons of extra money in their paychecks from the yuge tax cuts?
29
When aircraft orders evaporate because of a trade war, then what? That cancelled order for a laser cutting machine; did others lose their job because of that? Tunnel vision here...as long as I'm still working, things are OK.
14
So under Obama the plant was expanding and hiring new workers. Under Trump costs are up and hiring frozen. The cult of Trump will be the end of many small businesses.
21
The ramifications are only starting to be felt... let's see what happens when this war really starts to bite. I have high hopes that this trade war -- more than any other issue -- will be the end of Trump. One thing people will not tolerate is threats to their livelihoods.
9
Wish that we true. We've all seen time and again just how much Trump supporters are willing to tolerate (and excuse, overlook, redirect) in support of their cult leader. I'm willing to bet these people could lose everything and still fail to understand that Trump, Republicans and their millionaire/billionaire bosses are actually directly to blame.
1
Until this "trade war" began, I'd had no idea that so many foreign countries imposed tariffs on US goods. It's been a real eye-opener.
I'm sure this was common knowledge to all of the commenters who insist that anyone who disagrees with anything they say is stupid, ignorant and misinformed (not necessarily in that order), but, frankly, it was news to me.
3
Well we now see what levels of foolishness trump supporters can sink to.
The belief that shortages and rising costs will be good for business is insane. It's like believing in Santa, the Easter bunny or even austerity measures.
10
These people at Banner talked as if their company's customers have no foreign competitors. Boeing competes with Airbus. United Technology competes with Siemens. Just to name a fews. When Boeing and UT lose businesses to foreign competitors, they will cut back their orders from companies such as Banner. It does not take much thinking to realize the consequences of Trump's tariffs. When it comes to Trump's supporters, there is no fact, logic, reason, and rationality.
17
I remember that too. But that was then and this is now:
"I remember when Dems used to be skeptical of free trade, now they love it because of Trump."
The Democratic Party used to say "We're not opposed to free trade -- we just want fair trade." Back then, it was the Republican Party that liked free trade.
My, how things have changed!
2
Democrats still want fair trade and regulated capitalism. It is free-trade, deficit-hawk, tough on communism Republicans who have hypocritically abandoned every one of their so-called principles to back the out-of-control Trump administration.
3
Mencken (1880-1956) did write, in the Sept. 19, 1926 edition of the Chicago Daily Tribune: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
25
Who are the commenters without direct experience of a flakey boss? Turnabout is fair play.
I voted for Trump, and will do it again.
I agree he’s a compulsive liar, semi-literate, and perhaps suffering a neurological decline.
If the power elite and the Beltway crowd can’t see their way to impeach him, they will suffer more than the lower class.
The trickle down effect hasn’t worked for wealth, are we sure it works for misery?
I think it’s a perverse justice for the power elite and the Beltway to suffer a flakey boss, also.
Please recall the birth rate is not sustaining the population; the masses may have given up on “The Future “.
We may be witnessing a quiet riot against the one percent.
3
A vote for Trump is a vote for the 1%. His tax plan benefits the 1%. The 1% pays lower rates as a % of income than salaried workers. Allowing pass through to pay lower rates than workers favors - the 1%.
You want to vote for a liar and a fraud in decline? Pastor Pence will bring further decline
13
@Steve B no , sweetheart, they won’t suffer more than the lower class
1
Why is China the bad ‘guy?’ Did China force American CEOs to shift manufacturing to China? Why isn’t anyone pointing the finger at these corporations and their leadership? By the way, did the corporations lower the costs of their products to reflect the lower costs of manufacturing abroad? Of course not. The circus continues. Good grief!
26
I remember when Dems used to be skeptical of free trade, now they love it because of Trump.
2
@Ed Being skeptical of free trade and starting a needless trade war with the rest of the world are two completely different things!
6
No, they dislike stupid trade wars that will hurt American business.
3
Many commenters have already expressed just about everything I have to say about the issue itself (often FAR better than I could ever do myself)... but...
I have to take issue with the headline for this article.
Shouldn't it be more like: "Truth: Loyalists DO Choose Trump Over Job, Home, Children, Community, Nation"
14
Re-industrializing America is a good thing. Some will gain, and some will lose, but on balance, our nation will be richer and stronger.
The term "Industrial Nation" is synonymous with rich nation, and with secure nation. You can't be dependent on others during war time.
The Nazis were defeated in WWII, because they lost the ability to manufacture replacement aircraft. We have been losing the capability of manufacturing just about everything.
It is very difficult to buy, even a water valve for your sink, that isn't made in China. If China is our enemy, that is crazy. And it you think China is our friend, you are crazy.
7
Yes, re-industrialization will return to America. With robots doing all the work......
19
@happyexpat
That's fine, as long as the Robots are being made in the USA. Since the 1840's work has continually been automated and made more efficient, which is why the standard of living today is higher than it has ever been, and the total number of people employed is enormous compared to what it had been prior to the industrial revolution.
Today's (or even tomorrows) Robots aren't R2D2 or CP03 - they do not do the same things people do - they can't even pick tomatoes.
Ah, to be a member of the proletariat in good standing!
4
@Jay BeeWis
Yes, they are in good standing because they are slaves to the capitalist owners and do not realize it.
1
Keep supporting Trump, and when the factory closes down, you can switch to farming soybeans..
22
Many people who fall for cons are easy to keep duping, because the ability to admit that they were tricked eludes many people. In their minds, they will be embarrassed, a blow to the ego that is too hard to swallow. It's easier to keep holding out hope that the conman will come through.
There is an emotional payoff of "being on the winning side". Trump being an awful person in office validates them to be awful people in their own lives. Many will gladly spare financial cost if it means they can feel that they are not the lowest tranche of society. Republicans cutting education spending paired with short-sighted economic policies, and the right-wing propaganda machine (another tool of the elite) essentially kicked the ladder out so it is easier to maintain power/wealth.
The underlying causes and solutions to the problems that many of these Americans face are extremely complex, as any economy of this magnitude will be. It is easier to accept a simple explanation i.e., I'm poor because foreigners are taking MY jobs, and taking MY taxes through welfare, instead of educating one's self and then taking the time to understand the root causes. Lack of academic curiosity and inability to immerse one's self in another's culture are a huge problem for this entertainment-driven society. Our work-based schedules often leave time for little else.
Much of our populace rely on faulty emotional decision-making. This is a critical ingredient of the rise of fascist societies/gov'ts.
26
Oh, that's great. From here in France, I am so happy that everything is working out well back there in my native country.
The President is making a mess of things, and the people that put him in office don't mind, and they are ready to make a sacrifice. If it costs a little extra, they say, "no problem".
This is great news.
And if there is another mass shooting next week, too bad, this is the price of liberty, I would guess that they would say.
Terrific.
Me too, I am happy here.
17
Ohio, of course.
13
Probably better if the factory folk were using Trump not the other way around
4
So these Trump supporters are willing to sacrifice for the sake of protecting the national economy (as they think).
I wish they had been willing to sacrifice for the sake of protecting the nation from a white-nationalist demagogue. Apparently the demagoguery, which is the cause of suffering and endangerment to many of their fellow Americans, falls under the general heading of "what the president may say or put on Twitter", which they're willing to shrug off.
I had started feeling sorry for all the people who were liable to face lean times on account of Trump's tariffs. This lightens my load of caring: I'll just feel sorry for some.
10
One thing that Times commenters staunchly believe..... everyone is out of step, but them. Maybe these workers see production in their industry shifting to China and are willing to fight back. Workers go on strike to secure long term gains, at the cost of short term loss. Apparently Times commenters find all strikes to be unwise because of the short term losses.
6
@RM When a union goes on strike, they have concrete demands for better wages, working conditions and benefits. None of those things that would improve the lives of the workers are on the table in this "strike. And if Trump's past business practices are, as he claims, the model for his trade "deals" you can bet on these workers getting shortchanged. Most likely this will end up like his many bankruptcies and failures with Trump wealthier and the rest of us paying the bill.
11
@RM - They aren't fighting back. They are blindly worshiping a con man who will ruin all they have worked for.
6
Christy,
I agree with a lot of what you wrote. However you did not include in your comment the educated, middle class, and wealthy people who voted for and continue to support Trump. How would you explain this not insignificantly small group?
8
Oh, Mr. Raul, your comment, inadvertently, hit the nail on the head. It is exactly the fact that Trump's supporters believe, absolutely and unshakably, that "he has their interests at heart." Most, if not all of the people who didn't vote for Trump wonder what country, or planet, his supporters live on. Let me make it simple for you (and Trump's supporters); DONALD TRUMP HAS ONLY HIS OWN SELF-INTEREST AT HEART. HE DOES NOT CARE THAT HIS SUPPORTERS AND AMERICA WILL ULTIMATELY BE BADLY HURT.
33
Our chronic trade deficit rightfully alarms many. Somehow we must have a national policy to resolve it. A tariff war is not the way. There are better ways, but the Democrats make the mistake of ignoring the problem and offering no solution. This must change! The longterm solution is to insist on an international foreign exchange unit -- not the US dollar -- against which the dollar automatically would become devalued when we experience such a negative trade imbalance -- the reverse when exports significantly exceed imports. A short range measure might be foreign exchange control of our own. Grant exporters $ trade credits that importers must buy on a regulated exchange before releasing equivaletn $ to pay for imports.
3
1) please clarify what is wrong with a trade deficit? 2) u.s.trade deficit is in large part due to the fact that Americans don't save. I'm not sure what the u.s. household savings rate is but I thinks it's less than 2%. European countries (even "socialist" ones) have very high rates like 6%. Japan and other Eastern nation's save more. that's because they maturely plan for the future and don't spend every last cent on every shiny new object that is thrown their way.
3
@jd1234
as we should... we have been " consumers " , not "citizens" for decades or longer
The unemployment rate was at 3.8% when Trump announced his tariffs. There are plenty of jobs in America. So, what then is the negative impact of other countries "taking advantage" of America? Nothing. Conversely, what is the impact of Trump's tariffs? At Banner it's two jobs, plus a capital investment in a new piece of equipment, which, had it been purchased, would create or secure jobs at the manufacturer of the equipment. This is the insanity of Trump. People support him even when he's hurting them and it's completely unnecessary to hurt them. They have found their demagogue and nothing else matters.
28
America's great experiment is, are better decisions made with or without considering detailed facts? I guess we'll find out.
4
Self-delusion at Banner Metals. In what business model does it make sense to pay more for materials, sell less of your product, and postpone improvements, including hiring - to create more jobs??? When is someone going to finally say to these people - "you've been conned by Trump!! Accept it, learn from your mistakes and make better choices!!" When this business goes under, and the owner and his employees are trying to get by on unemployment and food stamps - don't expect a red carpet welcome at a Trump hotel. Your sacrifice will be in vain.
32
Willful ignorance.
18
Remember it is about 3 weeks since the tariffs were started, they have a lot of sacrificing ahead. Trump declared last week he will create thousands more Walmart jobs with their republican business plan! Just what people need--more low wage jobs that require you to get food stamps to survive. Is Trump trying to Make America or Russia Great Again?
17
@EPMD NEWS FLASH: The food stamps (aka SNAP) is being cut drastically ALSO!! No more "free" food for YOU!!
I'm no fan of Trump. I can go on and on about how you shouldn't be able to use Russian mob money to fund your real estate empire or constantly try to chip away at a healthcare bill Americans want out of spite. Of course theres the threatening war on Twitter as well every few months.
Even still, I do agree with his tariffs, and many of you on here would if Bernie was touting the same thing.
I just got back from China and most US media was blocked (NY Times included), and many software programs from the US are outright blocked. Of course there are exact rip off Chinese versions of it all (Youku look like YouTube to anyone?). The Chinese government was actively hacking US corporations and demanding that US Corporations hand over patent information. Many CEOs only concerned with quarterly profits conceded but on a national level it's a potential security threat and needs to be stopped.
People forget Trump also passed a major corporate tax cut and many if not all of these tariffs will be paid with extra tax savings. It's not a tax cut in the end but a tax redistribution that encourages US corporations to remain in the country. I've been asking for politicians to do just that for years as were many people I know.
Let us remember to also not think just in term of quarterly stock profits but like these factory workers in terms of long term gain.
7
Except you forgot the retaliatory tarifs from other countries. These will encourage US companies to produce there to avoid those tarifs (harley davison). The USA does not exist in a vacuum.
10
@Snake6390
trump lies because the tariffs that existed before him did not favor other countries over the USA.
trump did not mention the 25% tariff on light trucks that the US has charged for decades and still does. that's 3 million trucks sold in the US every year.
we have been charging europe every bit as much as they have been charging us, for family motor vehicles.
trump omits facts, he lies about facts. trump is hurting europe and canada and mexico, when he really should be hurting ONLY China. China is the only big cheater. Don't want to drive the other countries away!
Also, the tax cut is really just borrowing from your grandkids bigtime to give rich folks a big windfall. Companies leave the US because of comparative labor costs which will not change after tax cuts. Companies were already recovering jobs bigtime before the tax cut, now the tax cut stimulates too much and we will get inflation and have to raise interest rates which will cause a recession. This is not rocket science, Snake!
4
@Wayne The tariffs will make the USA goods more expensive but many people will not buy an American product now if they can help it. It's not the tariffs that will stop them but the desire to not support such a selfish and spiteful country. Canadian farmers with a small fraction of dairy herds compared to the gigantic American herds are being demonized by Trump. It is a joke that Canadian dairy farmers are a threat to Americans. Self respect will cause many to avoid all things American...except good movies.
1
Although it is interesting to read the confidence and certainty the Banner employees display regarding higher tariffs it would help if we had a better sense of exactly how they believe all this will happen. Todd Grizzle says trade policy will bring jobs back to America. Okay, but those jobs were exported from America by corporate decision-makers.....will those decision-makers now decide tariff protection will make U.S.-based production more profitable according to what set of parameters? Jobs did not leave the U.S., they were sent abroad by corporate decision-makers. Would James Ford feel te same about "tariffs"if the term was not sugar-coated, i.e., if it were called a "sales tax"?
The critical point here is owners and workers alike appear reluctant to ask how policies are actually supposed to work rather than what are the hoped-for outcomes. it might be instructive to remember Donald Trump made grand promises about saving jobs at Carrier Corporation in neighboring Indiana. Lots of media coverage of the promises. Applause for candidate Trump. President Trump does not mention most of those jobs have now been exported to Mexico, i.e., his rhetoric accomplished little. So what happens when using trade as a bargaining chip does not work? President Trump was quick to abandon the Trans-Pacific Partnership so instead of facing a trade war with China supported by a significant coalition President Trump faces it alone while the Chinese work out trade deals with our previous allies
22
@usa999 They believe it because Trump is the only person to make them such outlandish promises. Other candidates and presidents were burdened by common sense and a basic knowledge of how the world and economies work. They want so much to believe that a strongman will make it all better for them because it gives them hope. They really aren’t interested in the details. At least not yet.
18
I wonder how many of these workers will recognise that most of US power arises from soft power. It is this power that is being lost rapidly under Trump and will be difficult to recover.
They will soon live in a world in which the global community, excluding the US, will become more integrated and codependent upon each other as the self-proclaimed leader of the free world engages in navel gazing.
10
The “self proclaimed leader of the free world”. Spot on. I’ve lived in Europe for over 25 years now and nobody, I mean NOBODY looks at the US as their leader.
Its quite the opposite actually.
9
look traveled around europe last year. it was surprisingly similar to the US actually in the as soon as you leave the cities people seem to be a lot list frilled about the current direction. I suppose I should also probably throw immigration in there too since that was the main thing I heard discussed. maybe your guyses own self image of your nation is also a little bit distorted because the place I remember was far far from fine and far far from well-integrated and also seem to be going in the opposite direction you claim but that's just my two cents take it from an "ignorant" first generation American.
It is shocking how Trump's base will back him up even when it becomes clear that his policies and tax breaks do not help the working class. I can see why the one percenters love him - they're all lining their pockets and CEO's are thrilled they don't have to worry abut that pesky EPA and those wimpy laws that stop us from polluting water and the air. So many of Trump's followers sound just like the man himself - they conniver ever admit they made a mistake.
17
Many of us 1 percenters are distressed. Long growth in the budget deficit. A decision to trade innovation for the lost dream of the second industrial revolution. Wanton destruction of the environment. Feels good for a year or two. I’m in it for the long run.
3
Once the trade war hits the bottom line of these companies too hard, they will lay off employees. The sacrifice wont be a few dollars from a paycheck. It will be these workers' livelihoods. Let's hope they recognize this reality and have prepared for it.
21
Trump has managed to convince and infect these workers with poisonous lies . Mr. Jackson's comparison to victory gardens during a world war ( way before he was born) to tariffs and a trade war is naive . More so because sadly they believe in the fairy tale of short term pain for long term gain and are willing to contribute their hard earned money to that belief . Wonder how they will feel twenty years from now when the realization hits them they were conned. The world outside the U.S. will adjust , after all they can trade with each other whereas the U. S. will stand alone when the bill comes due .
12
I hope, when Mr. Jackson is laid off by Banner because Fake45’s trade war causes the company to go belly up, he can still collect a bit of unemployment insurance from Ohio’s unemployment insurance fund, which will for the same reason be belly up too.
17
It's astonishing how people who blundered their way into making only $15-20 an hour doing complex and dangerous non-union jobs with probably lousy health benefits and no retirement plans, are suddenly experts in brass-knuckled trade negotiations and international commerce.
51
Would be interesting to see the higher levels of fine, fast technology used in factories overseas that eclipsed the 100 year old foundry that went bust along with 800 jobs. Point being Trumps tariffs are at heart positive direction for factories in the rust belt. However, without strong tax incentives to purchase and upgrade assembly lines to world class efficiency levels with the latest machinery and modernization, will make these tariffs very short lived, simply because the profit margins will be too tight. A campaign promise kept, but so what.
3
When I read comments on these types of articles, I fear that the 2020 election is already lost. The level of vitriol because someone disagrees with you on trade policy is unsettling.
If you tell people they are deplorable, they won’t vote for you.
Globalization can contribute to income inequality. In developed countries, international trade can benefit capital and skilled labor and hurt unskilled labor. The pie can get bigger, but that doesn’t mean the benefits are shared by all.
The establishment preaches the wonders of free trade, but ignores those that are displaced. It doesn’t take the actions needed to make sure that gains from trade are equitably shared. That’s why you see the rise of populism on both the right (sadly Trump) and the left (Sanders).
I’m not defending Trump’s haphazard, reckless approach to trade. I don’t understand why he’s starting a trade war with Canada and the EU. He is easily the worst President in modern history, and arguably the worst ever.
However, Democrats have to articulate a clear message that takes the concerns of the workers in this article seriously.
14
@James Williams - the 2020 Democratic platform has some worthy ideas:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/newest-deal-dems-build-progressive-platform-2...
2
@James Williams. The workers in this article have good jobs because of globalization. It is a high tech, niche, globalized industry in which they work. I suppose it is noble that they are sacrificing for potential American workers downstream in their supply chain, but it is unclear how they exert any pressure to change downstream conditions to their liking. Their boss has already switched to a much more expensive Austrian supplier because they are not big enough to influence things downstream. Of course, trump’s tariffs have already restricted their growth that might allow them more influence. They’ve allowed themselves to be put into the proverbial catch-22 by ceding their power to influence their situation to trump
I am surprised so many are surprised by this unconditional support. Read the world news, it’s the same story in many places. Strong authoritarian leaders are on the rise. The common theme is that they’ll save us from the other, keep us pure and unadulterated.
13
Frustrating, aint it?
4
All I read about is commenters saying how stupid or naive or sheeplike these Trump supporters are. How racist and bigoted they must be. All I see is negativity. While it's true that these Trump supporters may be uneducated or not know the true consequences of their actions, making these assumptions and hateful comments will not help our nation. Insulting those we do not agree with will not help our nation. These are factory workers with families and kids to feed and with limited options looking for some hope - not all our extremist.
For as scary as it is that so many Trump supporters exist it also means that we have failed them. We must support them in receiving an education, in understanding how we can help their quality of life, not alienate them further by our attitude towards them.
This I fear is why Trump won in the first place - by Democrats or other Republican candidates ignoring the needs of this population. We ask how they could believe Trump - but without the educational background to understand how to properly research and filter information, you more readily believe what you hear from ones mouth - especially when that word is consistently repeated by those around you.
7
@Christy Telling the truth about people will help the country, keeping up the farce by play acting and ignoring bad behavior is NOT gonna help the country
4
@Christy their options weren’t limited until trump’s tariffs. The factory was expanding in an industry, aerospace, that , by definition, is global. Their options were expanding, literally. I think that it what most people, myself included, can’t fathom. They have voted to impoverish themselves. Your attitude is incredibly condescending towards them.
Supporters of traitor Trump getting hurt by tariffs is Darwinism at work.
9
It is not difficult to understand Trump supporters when they are recognized as fanatic cult followers.
Remember the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid"? It refers to the 1978 Jonestown massacre, in which more than 900 Jim Jones followers committed mass suicide by drinking a flavored drink mixed with Valium, chloral hydrate, cyanide, and Phenergan. Listen to Casey Jackson's pledge of loyalty: "“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it, You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.” Bottoms up.
"Fantasyland" coined by Kurt Andersen is proving to be an apt diagnosis of USA. So is this line from Daniel J. Boorstin's The Image: A Guide to Pseudo-Events in America (1961): "We risk being the first people in history to have been able to make their illusions so vivid, so persuasive, so ‘realistic’ that they can live in them.”
19
The same people who railed against Obama over that “you can keep your doctor” comment, even though he ultimately had no control over that. Plain and simple. They are willing to overlook a punch to the gut from a white president, but not so much as a slap on the wrist from a black one.
17
If you are in the 0.1%, Trump has your best interests at heart. The rest, not so much.
Look who got the greatest benefit from his tax cuts. It was not the 40 million who support Trump, despite what he does as President.
Saying you are the voice of working people, does not make it so. Trump's Mar-a-Lago will import at least 65 foreign workers, rather than pay more to attract US workers.
Trump says he supports US workers but his policies show he governs for himself and his fellow mega rich Republicans. How can he keep getting away with being the best President that money can buy?
12
@Raul Campos Obviously race IS a part of it. Bigotry is clearly welcomed by the same voters, people who have more in common with NSDAP than with the land of the free. The founding fathers roll around in their graves for sure
@Raul Campos - Read up on Trump university. Trump makes his living conning working class people.
He is busy poisoning these people's air and water and endangering their livelihoods.
1
Ever wonder why there's a top 10% of "earners" in the U.S.? It's because they have literally rigged the economic system to their advantage. They have also paid for a highly-effective, ferocious propaganda network to reinforce stupid ideas to a desperate and fearful people.
It doesn't take a genius to see, quite clearly, that those who act and vote against their own self interest are, simply put, dunderheads and deserve whatever dismal economic fate comes their way.
11
They can stay loyal to Trump and more Americans will end-up in the gutter - such is the addictive nature of allegiance to a cult that operates on the basis of uninformed, simplistic nonsense and demagoguery.
14
Wow, reading this comments is a real mirror and I don’t like what I see. People here look down at this workers just by reading a few lines of comments by them, they assume they are stupid (best case scenario) or evil. The commentators have zero empathy and understanding that different experiences in live leads to different beliefs. I’m reading this from outside and thinking wow the left really lost total contact with manufacturing, with simple working people that should be very part of their base.... I can’t understand all this livore... then I think how I think of the people that voted for this new terrible right wing government that we have here in Italy and I find in myself exactly the same attitudes, I hate their voters I think they are ill informed, that I know best, that they are stupid that they are evil. Thank to this comments I hope to improve, and try to understand and feel more empathy for “them” without stopping to criticise the government that is really really terrible. Sorry for my English mistakes
9
@Grete Democrats have been champions of worker rights since FDR. When these workers embrace Republicans, they embrace a party that has waged wholesale war on worker rights for at least a century. Even if workers survive the trade war with their jobs, they will (and already are) going to lose income to the benefit of their employers.
This is the nature of frustration in the comments that comes out as the negativity you detect. It is exasperation at the fact that these workers do not recognize their contributions to their own plight.
15
Grete it takes a special type of man(or woman) to recognize when he's wrong. your right, we can all learn from taking a step back.
and I feel like I should drive this last Point home. you are talking about grown adults, not errant children, please keep that in mind from now on when you speak of them.
1
Trump is indeed a stable genius. He has figured out what makes these people tick, and keeps giving them what they crave. Hatred, bigory and cruelty to others is what these people seem to motivate these people.
9
First and foremost Trump supporters are bigots and racists. As long as Trump continue with those policies and spews hatred, his supporters will overlook everything else. This is the classic us against them policy that seems to appeal to the unenlightened members of our country. Their behavior makes sense when viewed from that perspective.
5
The only thing more frustrating then Trump stealing the election is that he continues to get support even though his policies harm those very supporters. Its almost as if Trump could actually murder someone and his supporters would still support him. Oh, wait.
4
@Richard conrad it is even worse that that. He could murder their loved one and they would still support him
Like their incredibly noble and selfless leader would do the same for them. They deserve whatever happens to them as punishment for teaming with the Russians to put this man in office.
4
So much for the theory of JD Vance, espousing the “noble and forgotten” factory worker. This isn’t economic, it’s about racism, misogyny, homophobia and spite. These folks will stay in their cult until they drink the koolaide and die.
5
Zero sympathy for doubling down on ignorance.
7
I always find it interesting, albeit sickening, how people within certain cultures can find or construct largely fictional and/or unfounded frameworks to anchor self-righteous faiths. Strike up a Teump conversation in a midwestern diner or saloon and you’ll soon be treated to a number of these, from Korean talks to explanations of the strong economy.
And yes, at the core of many Trump fan cultures lies a basic hatred and fear of coastal elitism.
4
I find Mr. Jackson's statement that we "got to look at the big picture" profoundly ironic and frustrating.
The willful ignorance and obstinate defiance of the Trump base leaves me with zero sympathy for them. Zero. Much to my dismay, I find myself actually hoping they suffer enough that they finally wake up.
How do they not see that Trump and Republicans don't have their backs -- and never have? If they truly could see the big picture they would see Trump and Republicans for what they are -- a party of the 1% by the 1%.
7
"If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it." Pretty much spells out the whole voting against one's own interest concept. Transition to blind fealty for the dictator is now complete. The farce is strong within this one.
7
One thing is to take a slight hit on your paycheck and the other is losing your job. I doubt any of these people will see it the same way if they become unemployed.
8
The quality and result of the American education system is on full display in this article. Basic comprehension of the subject matter at hand is clearly lacking yet they speak without hesitation. In addition, an equal voice is given to all no matter what nonsense percolates between their ears.
8
I hope this organization gets shuddered. They need to suffer for their decisions. The only thing that will convince them of anything....money.
1
So, it's started. We now have workers openly stating that they'd support Trump by taking cuts in pay. Only a matter of time before he suggests that the only way we can beat the third world countries is for good patriotic workers to accept third-world wages. Or maybe they'll give up their homes to live in the company bunkhouse and work for food.
Meanwhile, Trump touts products that are made in America, and not one of his supporters stops to ask why Trump's products aren't made here.
14
@Susan
They're counting on unemployment insurance, food stamps, TANF funds, low income tax credits, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act, and all those other government-run social safety nets to be there to help them when the company asks them to sacrifice for the "greater good". Meanwhile, over in the Congress....
6
@LynnB
And guess who pays for the bulk of those safety nets? us "libruls" who are net givers to the red moocher states.
Seems that the electorate you write about was seein the decline of industry before the election. They are probably convinced that Washington was to blame when most of the blame was in the state governments and the investors who demanded higher dividends than good business dictated. So they did the one thing they could and voted for a change. They still think a change was and is in order.
2
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
And what will he and other Americans think when they cannot find new jobs because of their age, the refusal of employers to hire and train new people, or the fact that their experience makes them too expensive to be worth hiring? They are joining a long line of Americans who cannot find jobs because they are over the age of 50, have too much experience, don't have exactly the right skills, or who cost too much. Trump's moves on tariffs will not help them or America.
Maybe these supporters deserve to lose their jobs but their families and children don't deserve the suffering that comes with being unable to find a new job that pays a decent wage. What baffles me is how often people fail to understand that in a zero sum game the losers are always the average citizens particularly when things are as rigged as they are right now when it comes to wealth and the accumulation of wealth.
If they believe that Trump or the GOP is watching out for their interests they have a rude surprise coming. They will be told, just as the unemployed were told during the 2008 recession, that they are moochers, that unemployment benefits are a hammock, and that it's their own fault they can't find jobs. That's the way the GOP cares about them.
9
And wait till they lose their health insurance along with their jobs while they are too young for Medicare but too old to be attractive to new employers. They will suddenly realize that Obamacare, for all its faults, enables them to afford health insurance while unemployed.
8
Internationalist businesses should be RUNNING from the Republican party at this point but apparently its only a trickle. I guess when it comes to the effects of tariffs or taxes the lure of reduced taxes is so great that it overpowers the loss of markets.
3
The workers compromising and working in unison for the good of the nation... didn’t that whole philosophy go down with the fall of the Soviet Union ?
11
Please don’t move out here when you lose your job. Remember, you live in God’s Country!
11
If it looks like a sheep, bleats like a sheep, and walks like a sheep...
10
I will when the guy loses his job and can't afford healthcare. That is just some collateral damage for the good of the country.
10
The fact that a machine operator earn "$15 to $20 an hour. . . " suggests that it's probably a non union plant. Based on this premise, it's likely that the employees are probably governed by the "at will" employment doctrine. (i. e. the employer can fire or lay them off for any reason or no reason as long as it is not because of their age, sex, race, religion, handicap,pregnancy or national origin.) Finally, if the plant should close, there will, in all likelihood be no severance package.
And should that unfortunate event occur, which seems likely,I'd like to see the reporter return to Columbus and ascertain their level of support for the individaul who put them out of work. (Hint: It's won't be Barack Obama but they may try to blame him anyway.
Moreover, I'll be curious to see how many have found jobs and are earning at a rate of their previously salary. And if they happen to be some of the "left behind white men" with a high school education or less, they will surely have a difficult time. If so, perhaps they can console themselves with the fact that they were conned by the biggest snake oil salesman to ever come down the pike. Lesson learned of course but way too late.
18
Why don't they just write checks to Trump with thank you notes attached.
This has gone well beyond the political catch phrase of voting against your own self interest or "What's the matter with Kansas."
Clearly, conservatism belongs listed in the DSM.
14
The YSA lost the easy to win trade war.
China currency is down 7% and heading to 10%.
That is a total offset of the US tariff against China.
And, China applied a 10% tariff to USvexports-Cuba imports.
Effectively US imports into China are now 17% more expensive than 6 months ago.
If you were a Chinese importer.
The US has lost the trade war.
2
This sad looking factory is outfitted with an extremely outdated machinery that most likely is there since WW2. It’s also an illustration how American industries died out - lack of reinvestment into technology and training for the workers. It’s Rust Belt out there. This tiny shop is surviving by manufacturing small batches of primitive parts that attracts no interest from serious competition.
6
I am guessing that many if not most of us lack a background in global economics and that without a firm understanding of it, perhaps you could be convinced that in the end, Trump's course is the right one. However I also wonder what kind of mental gymnastics have to be going on in order to dismiss his statements about women, people who are sick, people who are handicapped, people who were POWS (see comments about John McCain), fellow Republicans, people of color, people who are lower income ...well you know - the list is really long. How can you ignore all of that THAT?
28
Laser cutters are fast, accurate to close tolerances and highly repeatable, dimensionally, Numerically controlled machines.
Scrap costs are greatly reduced thus making up for the increased costs of materials, probably use less electricity than those humungous multi-ton presses made decades ago, and will run accurately for an entire production run tirelessly instead of occasional tool and die grinding and tooling changes which causes production down time.
If you can't finance the entire cost of the laser cutter, negotiate a deal to rent while buying or open ended leasing of the machine. It won't do work while you wait to buy. Just do it.
I'm "Patrick" and I'm going "out" for business.
2
Too bad these workers don’t take some of their Trumpcentric “a little personal sacrifice for the greater good” philosophy and use it for the greater good and start joining unions. That, more than any trade war, would keep people in good paying jobs.
23
Whatever. Trump loyalists bore us. Nothing to see there, folks.
27
How about no paycheck?!
10
It would be interesting for the reporter to go a step further and ask these workers for a detailed explanation of why these tariffs are so wonderful. There is a reason why the more educated a person is, the less they support them. Do these workers really understand tariff policy? Or are they merely parroting Conservative talking points? Now there is the real story. Dig deeper.
33
It is amazing how powerful sending tweets about hating Mexicans can do. Trump has basically enabled racism in people. It is as if he has given people a great excuse to let out their lowest racist feelings. "Deplorables" is a great description for these people.
14
First of all, the US is winning big time in global trade. The US is NOT a loser at all. The real issue is the distribution of the winning. Most of it has gone to the shareholders of the US corporations; not to the US and the Chinese working class.
This tariff war will be totally disastrous for the US factory workers. It is a scheme by the con man at the White House to rile up his supporters by playing the victim card. As all con artists know there is a sucker born everyday.
19
Interesting that his base is willing to make the sacrifices the guy in the White House would never personally make and would privately ridicule them as “losers” for making them.
24
This one is simple to explain: the Stockholm Syndrome. The members of the Republican party are effectively hostages to Trump. This explains their undying loyalty to him. The Germans were hostage to Hitler and only were released from that after World War II ended. They now have very strong laws against hate activity, probably as a result of the very powerful counter-reaction that resulted from them being held hostage by such an evil man.
11
Trump's followers are probably not as interested in national welfare as they profess. Ignorance is bliss.
Hitler could not have done anything without support from misguided Germans. So it is now the turn of the US to go through the national trauma inflicted on it by Trump's Basket of ignorami.
The cure for such a cancer may be: get rid of the electoral college which allows for this type of elections to take place. Trump and his family are the swamp.
20
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
Yeah, right. Another Trump supporter conned by Mafia Don's snake oil.
Oh, but just try suggesting cutting defense spending and raising taxes ("a tiny bit of sacrifice") to pay for universal health care, education, and overdue infrastructure investments, a combination hat would help everyone and do more to strengthen our country than the obscenely bloated defense budget does. You know, the "big picture".
The ensuing howling would be deafening.
32
@Larry M
I was about to make the same comment about healthcare. Another tiny sacrifice to help out the masses seems of the question for some bizarre reason.
8
wait until they are crying like little babies..... won't be long. this is exactly what a lot of small contractors were thinking when they worked cheaper for trump on his projects. they were promised bigger and better jobs in "the future". a future that never comes.
20
I've noticed that since Trump took office many liberals -- including myself -- have suddenly realized the benefits of free trade. Before Trump, we liberals almost automatically rejected the Republican pro-free trade stance as harmful to working people. Now suddenly impediments to free trade are harmful to working people! Maybe this is an opportunity for liberals to develop a more nuanced view of trade, one that acknowledges its benefits (which actually go mostly to the 1%) while admitting its harms and advocating for mechanisms that actually benefit Banner's workers (cue Professor Krugman).
14
The big question is whether the macroeconomics will bear out the transactional economics as viewed by these workers. They see the small pain, but they are betting on a big gain for America. For this company, the balance is working. How will the trade war play out across thousands of companies, millions of employees, and all 50 states? Will it trigger inflation that decays their standard of living? Will the aggregate effects of Trump's policies (trade war and debt-exploding tax cut) trigger the next Great Recession in the aggregate, which will ultimately hurt their company? And if those things occur, will these folks connect the dots to Trump's policies? I'd say the jury is still out. Let's ask them again in about a year.
6
The Times does itself a disservice by not interviewing other people in similar situations. It wouldn't be surprising to find other employees of companies affected by tariffs who are much less understanding of Trump's impact on their bottom line.
11
The industrial companies I deal with are not in favor of the trump tariffs because they see them as inflationary, which they are.
3
It's great to work with your hands but you all at Banner need to also think with your minds as you work. The tariffs go to the treasury and won't create jobs.
8
Folks, first thing -- stop insulting the workers at this plant. Why do you think they don´t listen to you and instinctively defend Trump? In part, because you all put them down! Think about how you come across.
Second, they are defending Trump against their interest because they are only hearing one narrative, one version, of events. The Democrats don´t have a message right now for these people, and no one is trying to reach the heartland with a positive, economic-based theme. Forget catering to various splinter groups -- when Democrats understand how to reach the white working class, they will win. Until that time, Trump will continue to exploit the situation.
24
@Kit
You must be joking. Democrats have supported workers forever by supporting unions,healthcare, minimum wage requirements, family leave, etc. all things that the GOP despises.
I’m afraid that what resonates now is a message tinged with racist, xenophobic and mysoginist undertones with the cynical veneer of wanting to help workers with no power, toiling in dying industries while still being underpaid.
The messages are there. One truly helps workers, the other helps feed the vengeance towards liberals and foreigners, and all who aren’t gun toting white christians. They’ll accept anything if served up with the proper dog whistle.
9
@Kit we don’t promote racism or hatred of the other. If that is the key to their minds...then forget it.
4
@Kit I agree. These are not uneducated people. The company supports workers going back to college because they realize higher skills will be needed in the future. But they have bought the line that Trump will make things better for them--and that American workers have been taken advantage of. Sadly, they haven't figured out that it's the corporations and CEOs who have sold them down the river, not the workers in other countries.
Cutting through the babble, a tariff is simply a tax increase. Nothing more. It may or may not be regressive.. Our eyes will see just about everything at the mall jump in price. This would be a negative for the broad economy
Obviously the billions that flow to the Treasury will take a wee bit of pressure off the deficit, but probably not enough to make a difference.
6
@former financial executive. The tariff billions will be diverted to trump personally ultimately, which is precisely why we now have tariffs
Some of these interviews are good examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
The effect is a type of cognitive bias, where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability.
19
Sort of like Trump himself.
1
I hope there will be a follow up to this story in 6 months so we can see if their faith in Trump was well placed- that this will only be short term pain, and the Econ experts have all gotten it wrong. For their sake and the countries’, I sure hope so.
9
at least those MAGA hats can be used to collect spare change from passers by
24
Socialism is the alternative
No it isn't. But what would you know?, you only have ears for Fox news.
13
What's wrong with socialisme? Socialisme is capitalisme with a human face...Don't be afraid.
How can these workers be so ignorant? Trump’s economic policies are a disaster and almost all economists agree.
17
H. L. Mencken was right. Such ignorance!
These guys must be eating or inhaling something quite remarkable.
8
Meet the real Americans. God help us.
18
Enough already about the vaunted Trump/GOP voter. We don't care anymore what they "think" because they don't think, they spit back Faux "News" talking points. They are incurious, refuse to be informed outside of their echo chamber, and after 18 months of proof that Trump is a lying bully who does not "tell it like it is," refuse to admit that they are racist bullies at heart who could care less about anyone but themselves and their own.
56
I'd vote for that. Let those that supported Trump be t he first to pay the price of their foolishness.
14
It's high time to institute an intelligence test before you can vote. These people have to be certifiably below average intelligence to support Trump as he destroys their businesses.
12
@Renee Margolin Exactly. I've said it before - instead of voter I.D., we need voter I.Q.!
7
Banner, you've been duped by the best.
You watch too much TV. Off screen is the reality. The tariffs are a consumer tax to offset the costs of the Tax Cuts which went mostly to the wealthy that financed the Republican campaigns to win.
The tariffs you pay are taxes which go to the government treasury. They won't create jobs. You should have bought that laser cutter. They're really fast providing economies in production.
16
There’s a sucker born every minute. P.T. Barnum probably didn’t say it, but it was and remains an accurate distillation of human nature. Exhibit A appears adjacent hereto.
9
These representatives of the so-called "Base" offer the perfect analogy: wartime. Just as during WW2, sacrifices were made for the greater good, so with the current "War on Manufacturing" by the low-wage developing economies.
These people are not stupid, they are willing to wave Trump's excesses through because he's, putatively at least, standing up for them.
Well, the experiment with protectionism has begun. As expected, these folks have taken an immediate hit, but will the longer term return the jobs in manufacturing? These folks are prepared to find out. I salute them, and I pray that their faith in the President is reciprocated.
6
@A. F. G. Maclagan. It won’t be. What fool puts their faith on the hands of an obvious con-man.
5
The only way I can understand this thinking is by considering that when people make small mistakes in their lives, it's relatively easy to acknowledge those mistakes and move on. But when you have been seriously conned by a lifelong criminal whose only skill is to push the right buttons and your entire livelihood, your health care, your pension (what's left of it), your social security are all at risk because you voted for the crook, it's a whole lot harder to acknowledge that you have been ripped off.
There is an article in the NewYorker this week by a man whose mother was conned out of large amounts of money in a classic scheme. She still thinks the man who stole from her is a nice guy and is still waiting for the Publisher's Clearing House check he promised her. She at least has advanced age and some dementia as her excuse. What's the excuse for these fools other than wounded pride?
12
Lyndon Jonhson was so right. (This is a paraphrase). Tell the lowest white man he is better than the best black man and he will empty his pockets for you.
Study after study have shown that Trump supporters are motivated by racial resentment and fear of the other.
Trump has continued to bad mouth minorities and institute policies that seemed to be designed to hurt immigrants and minorities.
As long as Trump continues to stick it to the others, Trump supporters will endure the scandals and even economic difficulties. It is about being able to look down on others.
21
@Confused democrat
Maybe.
Can we enforce our immigration laws, or is that racist?
The Ds answer is the key that unlocks the door to getting rid of Trump.
Or not.
It is heartbreakingly pathetic that the owner and employees of this company think they are making a sacrifice for their country.
Their hearts are in the right place. It is such a crying shame that they have been lied to with such ferocity that even now, they can't see that the sacrifice in growth, productivity (new machines) and wages that they are making is all for nothing.
Worse than nothing. When thousands of work places like theirs are hit by the higher cost of doing business, when employees are laid off rather than hired, when the businesses in the towns they live in go broke because people can't afford their goods anymore because of the unemployment and reduced wages, I wonder if they will think of their sacrifices the same way?
In what sort of dark night of the soul will they realize the lie? Who will be there to help them then?
15
Are you sure that their hearts are in the right place Jean. They cannot have missed the truth that supporting Trump means going along with harming hundreds of thousands of human beings. No I think that they are fundamentally self centred, uncaring people.
5
Not a fan of a Trump, but I think a lot of people should get ready for him to be successful in the trade war. He had a lot of leverage here and cracks will begin to form from those without. This is what Trump is betting on and why he feels he can bully them into a deal. If you look at autos, 10% tariffs on our cars to the EU and 2.5% for EU importsand the EU is already thinking of a deal. The end result in this case won’t be massive but he’ll get a win and with a few more, all of the workers here that so many criticize, will vote Trump once again.
5
@Brian - Seattle. Ahh. No. He’s an ignominious playing on folks hatred and fear. It will not turn out well for them.
2
@Brian - Seattle: "If you look at autos, 10% tariffs on our cars to the EU and 2.5% for EU imports and the EU is already thinking of a deal."
And what about the fluid economic exchange the U.S. previously enjoyed with Canada in terms of cars? Shot down by this president. Well, Canada can just as easily import the autos it needs from Japan.
How will the U.S. make up for that loss?
1
It would be nice to know if workers at larger factories confirmed the conclusion the article draws; this is a very small factory, possibly an outlier?
1
“There is an abiding sense of siege among factory workers and executives alike, of having been shortchanged in the trade equation.” Again and again reporters write that many people from the CEO’s to the people on the factory floor feel shortchanged. By and large, what, how, why and whom has shortchanged them is left to the reader’s imagination. Did the U.S. government sacrifice the domestic manufacturing sector to satisfy consumers’ thirst for lower cost goods? Did Wall Street lobby for some industrial sectors over others? Was the U.S. economy moving away from basic manufacturing to advanced products and services? I can sympathize for the loss of jobs of fellow Americans without knowing anything more than what’s in the article, but without the what, how, why and whom, I can’t make further assessments of the “trade equation” and what could have been done in the past or changes, if any, that can be made today and in the future to make it better.
6
Isn't the real question whether or not the United States has the capacity to feed and cloth its citizens and produce the goods and materials needed to prosecute a war if war comes our way?
Can we stand up to China if we need to or are we now an economic client of theirs? Can we protect shipping on oceans all over the world in case of hostilities? Or do we just assume that conventional warfare has been replaced by nuclear destruction of the world and continue our dependence on other countries' factories and workers for our food, clothing, and other manufactured good?
If tariffs can rebuild American self sufficiency or reduce our dependency for basic goods to a point that we could make it through conventional wars without collapsing, they are worth it.
2
Again the moral dilemma I've been talking about for over a year arises: should I feel sorry for people who voted for this guy and still support him? I'm not a saint, ya know.
11
Do we still believe that they voted for him over the economy? Because if we do we are in deep trouble. These people voted out of hate and racism. It is that simple. They are fine losing their jobs because they want Trump to attack minorities. Because they want Trump to take away women’s rights and take away LGBTQ rights. Let’s sugar coating white nationalism, fascism, autocracy, I could go on.
20
The problem is, this company will not fold over night. They had been around for 38 years. By the time Trumps policies and tariffs finally crush this company and its employees in 3-5 years, there will probably be a Democratic President and Congress and they will promptly blame them!
24
@Champ democrats are like spouses, they are there to bail you out and get blamed.
4
That Fellow didn't like Trump "bending the truth? Wake up and smell the reality, what Trump does is not called bending the truth it's called lying plain and simple.
17
Zb, if I could recommend your comment 100 times, I would. A lie is a lie, not a bend. A bend is a teenager saying they came home at 11, when it was really 1. Trump is a serial liar, a teller of whoppers.
5
True believers are the most dangerous people in the world. They blindly follow their leader and don't realize there's a problem until he's taken them over a cliff.
10
I just have a feeling that when things go sour these voters won't blame themselves. Just a feeling.
18
who r these people??? tariffs creating jobs? makes me want to cry.
9
“Mr. Jones had planned to buy a laser cutting apparatus that would be able to do some production currently outsourced, but pressure on profit margins forced him to postpone the order in May. He even visited the manufacturer while the machine was under construction and had a spot picked out for it at the plant.”
What about future of the jobs of the people who work for the laser cutter manufacturer where you cancelled your order, Mr. Jones?
17
lets hope that when these workers loose their jobs, there will be no
medicaid, medicare and social security....
8
Sorry but I wouldn’t sacrifice my family and their well being for a liar. However, it is their right to go follow Trump. The danger is that when it gets too late to bail, suffering occurs.
8
Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
Well, Casey Jackson, you’ll get your wish and then some, after which you can determine whether the sacrifice was a “tiny bit” or more than you bargained. And, that’s not even taking into consideration whatever phantom gains are expected. There will be none, and if there are, it isn’t going to trickle down to the factory floor, that’s for sure.
When America fights its wars — trade or the other kind — it’s the ordinary folk that pay with their blood and sweat.
17
I only wish the effects of the tariffs would only fall on these trump voters.Unfortunately it falls on trump voters and reasonable people equally, which is unfortunate.
11
I want you to state your opinions later when the tariffs really hit home. I want you to tell us all how you feel when you lose your job, and you can’t make you mortgage payment and you’ve lost your car, and your kids can’t go to college because there is no money for it and then a family member became sick and now you are facing bankruptcy because you have no health insurance. I want you to tell me how you feel when your community becomes ravaged with unemployment because of the insane trade wars that were started by Trump for no reason. I want you then to tell me how you feel seeing, now a defeated Trump walking around Mara Lago, with his millionaire friends, basking in sunshine while you are jobless and destitute. That’s when I want you to say that you still believe in what Trump is doing in destroying the fabric of this nation with his unstable behavior.
Trade is more than just the trade imbalances that are on the listed. Trade is also the investment that companies make in communities and its people. That is also part of the international trade that Trump does not count as meaningful. I find it amazing how people will follow individuals like Trump, even though they have zero in common and are willing to sacrifice themselves for his crazy behavior. Trump will be fine, he’s rich and he will never pay the price you will be paying and he has no intention of paying the price you are paying. He’s leading you over a cliff and you are happily going along.
29
Commenters here seem to think the folks in the article (including labor & management) don’t understand their own business!
Perhaps we NY liberals can advise these forlorn Midwesterners on their love lives and what color socks to put on in the morning...
7
@Treadle See. They were expanding. Now they are retracting. Looks like they miscalculated
1
People that ignorant about international trade—those who accept Comrade Trump’s claim that trade wars are good and easy to win—deserve what they get.
11
“If drinking this Kool-Aid kills me, so be it. I still support Reverend Jones.”
13
Like Michael Cohen, they'll take a bullet for him...until they realize that he cares no more about them than he does about used paper french fry cups.
9
I am just floored by these people who continue to vote against their own self interests.
8
@JCAZ I don't think they even know what their self interests are. They just care that there's a white guy in charge again, and that he coddles them and tells them that some bizarre way of like they claim existed in the 1950s is coming back. They are aging, they know their children and grandchildren are not at all like them and know what opportunities exist (thanks to the internet). The thing that gets me is the coal miners. They know it's awful for everyone, and horrible for their health, but they seem determined to make sure their children and grandchildren do the same work and suffer the same issues.
14
Future jobs in the US will have to be based on innovation, not on outdated technologies.
Given the cost of labor is too high in the US to compete in manufacturing with low labor cost countries, companies here will be looking to cut back hours, reduce wages and benefits, lay off workers, bust unions and automate wherever possible - not exactly long term gains in favor of workers!
8
Why doesn't the NYT design a survey to ask these people why they support Trump's trade policy.
Ask then to start by defining a tariff. Ask them to define the concept of "Balance of Trade".
Ask them what is the tariff rate on products their company exports to the EU? And what is the tariff on services sold abroad?
Ask them how the US Government funds the national debt and if they get that correct, who buys most of that debt?
Make it easy for them as they are mostly only high school educated, so make it multiple choice.
But make the wrong answers totally outrageous but highly plausible. Include some of Trump's lies (without telling them who said them) and just ask them if the statement is True or False.
How can you possibly ask them if they broadly support Trump's policies when there is no proof they even understand Trump's policies?
15
While I admire their willingness to be Civic minded, "sticking it out for the good of the country" I wonder how they will feel in a year, (or less) when it doesn't work out the way they believe.
They are suppliers. They need customers.
Will the customers be as forgiving, if/when it doesn't work out as planned?
Bookmark that for a year from now.
3
@Zeke Black They weren't civic minded when it came to universal healthcare, so they are only situationally on board with the greater good.
7
If I lose my job, my home, my family...so be it.
9
"If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,”
What planet do these people live on? Try telling your son he ain't getting those new soccer cleats he needs for practice because "so be it". Just giving up like this? So Un-American!
11
I would give up a piece of my paycheck for a better healthcare system or better public schools. These folks really think they're biting the bullet for the public good.
5
@Joan. Exactly.
1
These defiant and die-hard Trump supporters affirm P.T. Barnum's famous remark: "There's one born every minute..."
14
Trump has revealed as never before the perverse gullibility of so many Americans, willing to cut off their own noses just to spite what they take to be the "liberal elite." It's just pathetic. He and his family and cronies are just laughing at these foolish people, and who can blame them?
17
Love it! If the cult is behind him, the Cult Leader will forge forward with additional tariffs, the cult will approve because the Cult Leader says they are working and if it causes the cult pain, then it means it's working, so rinse and repeat.
I hope they all end up bankrupt for life by the time Dear Cult Leader is finished ripping them off, their children and their grandchildren for the rest of their deluded and miserable lives.
8
Impoverished people who will still vote. We probably shouldn't wish that on anyone.
2
Good God these people are gullible on a whole new level. Do they get that the American taxpayer spent decades propping up the bloated corpse of the American steel industry. That industry got millions in subsidies that they were supposed to be investing in modernization of their infrastructure so they could compete with Asia. They didn't and eventually the taxpayers got tired of paying to prop up a dead industry. Trump will kill 10 times the number of jobs that he claims to save. He's not a business genius. He has no idea of how global economics works, which is ok became neither do his supporters. The world will move on without us. Trump has no plan on how to get out of this. He's not playing chess. He just slapped the American people with a massive new tax while also shoving the cost of his unpaid tax bill on the very same American people.
39
Amen, Knowing what it takes to get our country back !! All worth it in the End !!
Wow. Sounds like these people are willing to do what people in unions try to do. Sacrifice the short term so that everyone can do better in the long run.
It's a shame the unions are demonized and at times so poorly run. Not as big a shame as this administration is, though.
13
@DP. These folks voted for the union busters because? Answer- racism.
4
Yeah sure. I wonder how many of these fools would be focused on the “big picture” if it was Obama doing this. Any guesses?
18
These people are racists, pure and simple. If you think they are supporting Trump for any other reason you are badly mistaken.
16
Members of a cult will sscrifice everything for their leader.
12
"Thank you Sir, may I have another." Some people like it like that. Makes them feel alive.
11
Trump supporters thus far appear incapable of seeing any situation except in partisan terms. Eventually, megalomaniacs tend to demand that their followers die for them: Hitler, Jim Jones, Koresh. Will Trump's sycophants be eager to drink their Kool Aid? History says, "yes."
18
Amazing how this attitude of self-sacrifice for the greater good was nowhere to be found when Obama passed the Affordable Care Act and the Tea Party was screeching about socialized medicine.
52
Obama was the wrong color for these folks.
14
One thing you can know for sure, it does not come out of trump income
10
People, at least some people, always trust the government. They trusted the goverment when the free trade deals were approved, and they will trust them again as they are dismantled and the US turns to protectionism. Not everyone was happy with free trade, and it is impossible to know if it has improved life in America because we can't know how things would have been without it. The same will likely be true if free trade is replaced by protectionism, we won't know how it would have been otherwise. And as for those many commenters who look down their noses at the Trump supporters, you may be right, you may be wrong, but the fact is that you have no idea what Trump's trade initiatives will lead to and what effect the resulting trade environment will have on American workers, any more than they do..
@GBC1
It's not hard to predict: Chaos. Which is never a good thing.
3
@GBC. He has no plan. Haven’t you figured that out yet?
3
Imagine if a Democratic President had raised their corporate taxes 20% to support employee health insurance benefits?
9
In the mid-70’s I was a student in a Social Studies class, when someone asked the teacher what the difference was between a recession (then the buzzword of the day) and a depression. The teacher wisely answered a recession is when your neighbor is out of a job and a depression is when you’re out of a job.
Here, one fo the workers said that a short term sacrifice in exchange for a long term gain was worthwhile. I wonder if he thought this through and whether he will feel the same when the plane parts he makes become too expensive to sell on the world market and the factory is forced to shut down?
8
There is a basic truism that if someone will do your job fit less, that is proof that you are overpaid. We are in a global economy and need to accept that out of 230 million Americans, a percentage of us will eventually have jobs like the Foxconn factories in China. The post war middle class was an artificial construct that will never happen again. Be grateful it lasted as long as it did.
4
No one knows which way these tariffs are going to go but if it hurts American jobs then it will be a trouble. Remember, the people vote from their stomach and the pockets.
1
@HCJ. They also vote out of fear and hate.
Elections have consequences. Trump's cannon fodder are about to meet up with some of them. Schadenfreude will be a most satisfying sensation.
Oh, by the way, not *one* penny for food stamps for the likes of these.
12
Trump is riding very good economy he inherited. At this phase of the economic cycle the growing economy still can absorb small increases in prices here and there. I would ask these workers again in Jan 2019. More jobs will be lost by then, particularly since the next recession is round the corner. Once it comes it will be a classic double whammy.
7
@CarolinaJoe
I agree with you 100%. I was getting ready to buy a condo or house in Daytona Beach Florida, then saw all the foreclosures on the market. I have halted my search until next year as I think prices will be much lower than.
4
There's nothing like taking advantage.
3
Importing steel from Austria? How's that adding American jobs?
15
@Jdavis Yes, importing it at a higher price than what they used to pay.
4
What these uneducated blue color folks are saying is that they where overpaid to begin with.
11
Dear god the lack of self awareness is stunning. Would someone please tell these deluded individuals 1. They are a few days into tariffs. Do they really think the cost to them will be $5.32 out of a weekly paycheck 6 or 12 months from now when they’ve lost contracts (and their jobs) because they cannot meet contractural just in time delivery obligations? 2. When their bosses start to see their bonuses shrink and their futures dim, how all for one and one for all do they think those 1% owners will be? I guess not very. 3. Their arguments for sustaining pain to help the country is, ummm, socialist. So now Republican flyover folk are socialists? The degree to which this cult is willing to pretzel any and all positions to back Trump is stunning. They understand the KoolAid was poison, right?
38
@DMS
I think it was originally LSD in the KoolAid. Read Tom Wolfe's book. Only after Jonestown has it referred to suicide.
3
Heck i don't care if this hurts my paycheck at all. Out here we all know those coastal elites and dark skinned people with them support us with their tax dollars. They do such a good job our interstates are freshly paved yearly.
8
As someone who lives in Ohio AND works in manufacturing (maintenance technician) I can tell you that this is exactly how it is with these "low information" voters. Republican=Right and Democrat=liberal=evil. They are raised this way and there's no getting through to them.
71
@Todd
Exactly. Politics as sport. My team (Republicans) won (so they say) and to the victor go the spoils. Clearly for the politicians that’s true, from Trumps Robber Barrons on down the line. For people who support him despite the damage he will do to their livelihood they just see him as a team captain. It makes them feel good to put their trust in someone. Allows them not to take responsibility for what invariably they are causing. Someone else’s fault that we have these problems (problems manufactured by Trumps tweets) and Trump is gonna fix this (nonexistent problem that he’ll turn into a catastrophic failure)
7
Sadly
1
Obama's presidency created hundreds of thousands of jobs, why didn't any of these Trump supporters take note?
Also, if they talk about willing to sacrifice a portion of their salary for the nation's economy, why not support the Affordable Care Act? A huge percentage of personal bankruptcies result from medical debt every year!
43
The answer is as easy as black and white.
10
@Brian
Hate is powerful medicine.
6
Retire at 99
Hang in there
17
As my students have said to me, you can't always fix stupid. That's sad but it's true. Some of these folks just desperately want to believe-whether in the poor man's country club--the evangelical church--or in a simple explanation like Trump's. That's why they believe--it's so much easier to blame Trump's scapegoats, the immigrant, the press, the "mean" people who don't like him, people of color who are angry with the way things are, than to think through the complexities of life themselves. I feel badly for these folks, but they are hurting the rest of us. And I'm frankly sick of this tyranny of the uninformed minority.
56
Two words for these people - Trump University.
27
Let them go down with the ship! This is about tribe over facts for some people.
9
People should be asked how they feel about the rising price of gas. Up to 50 ...70 cents increase per gallon which will keep rising and is directly related to Trump. Then ask if they feel his tarrifs will be a success in the future.
8
@rhdelp
Gas in Sun Valley, ID and Wells, NV was almost as much as my home in San Diego. And, California just added a gas tax of 15 cents. So, why is Idaho and Nevada gas the same price???
Bend over, flyovers.
John
3
Good to hear that trump is costing you money- he’s costing all of America too. No complaints when the company goes under though, deal?
12
It is going to come out of your paycheck. And you will see no return for it. Unless you are willing to work for 2$ an hour and have no benefits or security, those jobs are gone. And your president will pocket your sacrifice into his bank account and laugh all the way home.
9
To all employees at Banner and elsewhere who believe that by going back to the "good old days", wages will be increased, pensions will be more secure, employers will provide them with better health insurance plans, benefits and Defined Benefit Pension Plans (DBPP) will supplant 401K (self-funded) plans, check in for reality test.
You are working more hours now, but how is that Trump-Republican tax plan working for your weekly/bi-weekly paycheck or salary? Your employers are capitalists; their #1 priority is make a profit - a profit that meets market expectations in order for them to able to borrow and to meet market equity valuation expectations. When costs increase from raw materials or subcontracted services (suppliers want to make a larger profit, too) How will your employer maintain profitability? No, the management will not take a pay cut. Wage increases will be stalled, technology will replace labor, and if those are not successful, layoffs will occur.
Hoping this will not happen is a pipe dream. Global markets will purchase from the least costly in the Supply Chain. Today's "tariff hikes" is a protective barrier made of sand. Markets outside the United States have other source, and if the US expects to maintain its rate of growth, it will need to expand beyond the US customer base. Long term, rising costs will result in economic slowing, or higher internal costs to US consumers.
You lose both ways! You folks are a frog in the sauce pan being heated on the stove.
38
The reason for steel and aluminum tariffs have nothing to do with trade or US jobs. The reason for these tariffs is national security.
We can pretend these tariffs are simply an illegal negotiating ploy by the President to "level the playing field". That of course would be supporting illegal and underhanded negotiations on the part of the administration for companies like Banner Metals.
There used to be something called Midwest values. I can't exactly tell you what it means since it's been a very long time since they actually existed.
3
Never underestimate the willingness of people to vote in their own worst interest or to believe the lies of a side show barker posing as president. Tariffs will benefit the Trump base just as surely as will the recent tax cuts. Yea, right, and the check is in the mail. "Believe me, you're gonna love it."
17
If they are happy paying as a result of tariffs, they will be ecstatic paying extra state and local taxes at the end of this year, when Trump’s tax-cut” will eliminate their State and Local tax exemption.
15
Mr. Jones:
It’s admirably patriotic of you to not buy that $1 million cutting machine (presumably U.S. made) and not hire the additional workers you’d require to operate it in order to ‘do your part’ in your president’s economic war. If you were a publicly owned firm I’d be dumping your stock, if I were the American manufacturer of that cutting machine I’d be rescinding the new hires I was going to make to manufacture it for you, and if I were one of the workers you were going to hire I’d be cursing you.
44
My image of the average Trump supporter is sort of a composite: Slingblade, Carl the Groundskeeper, and Jim Carrey's character in Dumb & Dumber.
Not Rainman, though - he's too smart.
Maybe they'll feel differently about President Pinocchio when they're lined up at the unemployment office.
17
ah, such is the genius of Trump - those being had don't know they are being had . . .
20
Banner Metals and its workers deserve whatever havoc Trump’s trade policy wreaks on them. To give this story substance and some legs, Mr. Schwartz should update Times readers about the fate of these workers and Banner Metals every 6 months.
47
The Trump team has learned how to quantify the voting public's price for its being permitted to be racist- it's called "race-a-metrics," like sabre metrics only not so American.
4
The better part of me feels sorry for these people,the angry part of me is happy these people are going to have a rude awakening from their leader.Mr. Mueller,we can't wait!
22
Two words:
“Cognitive dissonance”
If you think it’s more complicated than that, than all i can say is what Calvin Coolidge said to the woman who bet her friend she could get him to say more than two words to her:
“You lose.”
8
Before you write these people off as idiots, keep in mind that their alternative to Trump is a party that considers all white people to be privileged, even if they are struggling to feed their families. Even if they are unemployed, depressed and suicidal.
Even though Trump is horrible, he at least pretends to be on the side of poor and working class white people. The Democrats have simply abandoned them in hopes that the ever-growing demographic of Latinos will save the party. Too bad for the Democrats that Latinos are not a unified voting block.
5
Every Democratic candidate in Ohio that I know is laser-focused on jobs, retraining for workers, and lowering health care costs. Ohio workers should take time to learn which party is really on their side.
22
@kyle - Hogwash. The Democrats have been trying to get these people affordable medical care and education, a living wage and decent infrastructure. These people didn't want to hear it, they wanted hate speech and at the end of the day that's all they'll have.
31
Kyle, apparently you find comfort in being lied to. Remember the tale of The Pied Piper? Welcome to the cave.
7
This is what is meant by the white tribal nature of the GOP. If Obama had cost the plant even one job they'd be screaming and yelling about how he's killing America and destroying the country. But the president is a clown whose skin color is the same as theirs - well then - by all means carry on good sir! It's nauseating to minorities to watch white people behave so transparently this way.
21
@RS. It’s nauseating to a lot of us too.
3
These are the people who will think nothing of going to Walmart and buying cheap imported stuff from China (and not realizing that is hurting us more than some tariffs in the long run because most of their employees have no health insurance and depend on welfare of some sort which raises all our taxes and doe s nothing to help the China trade imbalance).
If you want to build American then you better start buying American if you can. Importing steel from Austria does nothing to help the trade imbalance either!
17
But that’s the problem. You can’t buy American anymore. Walmart has aided in the destruction of US production.
3
IT is not useful to focus so much attention on Trump's most loyal voters. They are still a minority.
11
Please check back in with these workers 6 months or so from now, and see how they feel when there is a good chance that many will have been laid off, there are no new jobs, and inflation is eroding their paychecks.
15
Forty years of right wing talk shows, radio, and FOX have convinced people to reject progress and vote against their own self interests. Investment in job training and education is the only way out of this.
17
When Mr. Jackson gets laid off and then finds that Trump and the Republicans have slashed unemployment benefits, Medicaid, etc. that would have sustained Mr. Jackson in the past; I have to wonder how supportive of these policies he will be.
15
@Aaron of London: they are so afraid of the color brown and so dug deep in their fear and bias - they will still support the grandmaster. Expect nothing from this lot - they are lost.
4
As I approach retirement, I'm seriously worried about future inflation resulting from protectionism. Social security is already insufficient for most retirees. It will be worse in the future when protectionism raises the cost of living. At the least those working can ask for a raise (?) Union strikes will be back. Remember those days?
6
I hope they are right.
But I am pretty sure that sooner or later my tax dollars will bail them out.
15
These folks aren’t blind. If you look at their comments — “short-term pain,” “bends the truth” — you can see they have doubts about President Trump, which they may express among themselves. But when you’re hoping things will get a little better, a little easier, you might give him a shot, like buying a lottery ticket.
Taking a step back, it’s obvious Trump’s policies are aimed at increasing the wealth of the wealthy, with a few crumbs for workers and small-business owners to tamp down discontent. That we would settle for crumbs, and call it cake, shows how far the American Dream has been skewed. I think progressives have the right idea — spread the wealth with free college and Medicare for all — but they have to stop sounding like angry ideologues and start talking the language of regular people.
I remember hearing an interview of a mine worker with black lung. Even though his work will cause his early death, he was all in favor of Mr. Trump’s efforts to reopen the coal mines, and said he would go down again. It didn’t seem to make sense. But when you consider that working in the mines was the best way in the region to get some extra cash in your pocket, it makes all sorts of sense.
Throughout his life, Mr. Trump has stiffed and conned the small guy. But he stumbled onto a strategy that resonated, and now he’s milking it. A person who truly cares, and cares enough to lay out a coherent and realistic plan, is a person I would like to see as our nation’s leader.
30
Unbelievable (except I know it's true): it's truly the cult of Trump. I can only imagine the hysteria that would be unleashed by the right wing radio guys and echoed by workers if any Democrat were in office and this were the result: protectionist, government micro management, ruining the economy, etc. And the vitriol toward that poor person would catch (imagine for a second if Obama were president and this were happening to these people). It's sad that a vision of the greater good and sacrifice can only be generated by a foolish demagogue who could care less about the welfare of working people.
11
We've been taken advantage of so long that we're the richest country on earth!
32
These same Trump loyalists will be the first to blame Democrats when they lose their jobs and will only be able to find minimum wage jobs. Faux "News" propaganda have conditioned these people to praise republicans when the economy is doing well and to blame Democrats when things start falling apart because of republican policies. When a Democratic president is elected to clean up the mess the republicans have made, they will fight tooth and nail against any efforts to help them because--they are Democrats.
Enough, NYT! I am so tired of reading about these, sad, pathetic people. Please, give us a break.
16
As usual, I’m embarrassed to be from Ohio. Mea culpa.
22
As a fellow Ohioan, I second that.
9
I am from New York City. Raised in Queens where our President is from. Between Trump, Scarmucci, Cohen, etc., I try my best to hide my accent. Like you, I too am embarrassed.
5
Trump's supporters will never believe that Trump's policies are a desaster, until they're fully executed. So let's just do it, folks. Let's go down the rabbit hole and and hit the bottom. Let his supporters feel the result and decide for themselves. If we don't, then they'll say we hijacked their experiment and we'll have trickle down economic arguments, forever!
*Disclaimer... I've moved back home to Canada this year.
23
If this article is another NY Times attempt to make its' readers "understand" the Trump voters, it has fallen short.
8
Fox News has these people so worked up over their hatred of city liberals that Trump could shoot their first child and they would still support him. “I guess we all need to make sacrifices,” they would say.
31
Seems they're buying the "strong man" act from the king of bankruptcies.
17
these workers may not care if it comes out of their pocket, but I'm reasonably sure it doesn't affect Trump's pocket. Isn't that the way our "President" operates?
9
The putative reason for tariffs is that our economy is hurt by others taking advantage of us. The key part of that sentence is supposed to be "that the economy is hurt." Tariffs would then be expected to help the economy.
BUT.. it turns out that the key part of the sentence is "others are taking advantage of us." Tariffs are no longer supposed to fix a poor economy and increase domestic production, but instead to punish those who'd take advantage of us, no matter the cost.
What war are we fighting, if the first thing we do is destroy our own ammunition depot, then talk about being saved by victory gardens?
If a tariff hurts the economy, drives down investment and employment and productivity, then the only people taking advantage of us is us. We have met the enemy, and them is us.
10
NYT readers here have commented on the ignorance of these workers and their management. These workers are not necessarily wrong to want fairer trade or to support a reasonable plan to obtain concessions from foreign government on trade. The problem is that Trump has no focus and no actual plan other than to belliow loudly and and start shooting at our trading partners. Why shoot first and ask questions later.? if there are trade inequities, address them specifically in negotiations. if you can't come to a resolution, then it's time to take carefully calculated actions. Somehow these workers trust that whatever Trump does is a winning strategy, and they have childlike faith in a leader perceived to be strong. Unfortunately this tendency to see strength in. authoritarian personalities seems universal. Putin is admired by Russians and popular, and sadly even Stalin is missed by some.Again Orban is popular in Hungary despite being a near dictator. Everywhere people are pretty primitive in their need for a strong father figure and everywhere they have strong allegiance to their tribe. They think that's some other tribe will oppress them if they do not have an aggressive tribal leader. Trump is expert at playing on these primitive emotions and beliefs.
11
Trump's supporters remind me of a frog sitting in water that continues to get hotter. They are blissfully unaware of their imminent demise.
Sadly as Trump continues to impose policies that negatively impact his base, they refuse to recognise the costs to them and their families.
Trump is not the messiah. He is an ignorant, self centred, reality TV creature, with zero empathy for anything but further enriching himself and his fellow 0.1% plutocrats.
17
"If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture."
Sadly I bet he doesn't feel that way about paying his taxes, like most people. No big picture then.
18
exactly. as long as that chunk being taken from their paychecks is going into government coffers and eventually lining the pockets of warmongering mercenaries, and not mothers of color who are under the poverty line, all may sleep soundly in the republic tonight.
8
I find articles like this enlightening. Keep up the good work NYT and keep investigating the money trail the traitors left behind.
For a little more depth in these interviews I would ask some of these folks what their expectations are and how tariffs support achieving those expectations. It's obvious that some of these people think they are "finally being heard." But at the same time it is one thing to "hear your pain" and then have the skills and ability to do anything about it.
We have a long history of rewarding snake salesmen in this country.
9
The president ‘s doesn’t have a plan. He has revenge and pleasing Putin in mind. HE is an enemy of the people. We are in such dire trouble
14
At one time I used to think that Trump supporters such as these were ignorant but now I am just chalking it up to shear stupidity something akin to the old turkey and rain storms canard.
8
These people believe Trump.
They don't realize he's doing to the USA what he's done to Trump Casino, Trump Magazine, Trump University, Trump Water, Trump Airline, and so on.
They don't know -- or care -- that Trump has conned people for decades, as follows:
1. Gets people excited about some venture by making big promises and saying idealistic things.
2. Does just enough work to make it look good, like he's legit.
3. Gets his needs met (money up front, attention, power, etc.).
4. Drives the venture into the ground, leaving his partners, contractors, investors, employees, and now the American people, to suffer with their losses.
5. Makes his exit.
Trump's supporters are just the latest in a long line of marks going back decades.
78
I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. Although the Pittsburgh metropolitan area (Allegheny County mostly) voted for Clinton, I'm somewhat familiar with the mentality that causes the blue-collar workers in this story to twist themselves into knots justifying a trade policy that obviously will hurt them more than help them. FWIW, Scaramucci of all people recently called Trump's base "low-information emotional voters," which is a polite way of putting it, especially for The Mooch.
23
No logic here, trump’s appeal is just a cult of personality.
Traditionally democrats favored tariffs, not republicans.
Go figure.
6
People with such a low level of intelligence should not worry about foreign competition, but from robots which could easily replace them.
17
Oh the Kool-Aid they must enjoy drinking. Of course it's sweet to take in, but the long-term effects on health are stifling to say the least.
So they really believe their sacrifice will create more jobs? What it really will do is squeeze the working classes' pockets ever so much more, with the dollars and cents continuing to trickle UP-ward to the bosses ever higher up on the economic food chain. Meanwhile them and their ilk - i.e., the REST of us - will continue to be asked to share ever so much smaller pies. Thanks much MAGA-maniacs.
10
Mind blowing - I guess they already have their cups ready for the kool aid.
6
Ironic that these Trump voters work for a company thrives in the aerospace industry, itself dependent on international agreements that provide access to foreign markets to Boeing, one of their main customers which in turn sells more product overseas than to US customers.
9
@doug mclaren Boeing feeds at the trough of the American Government; second largest defense contractor, I believe. They are immune to most downturns.
3
“Using trade as a bargaining chip will help someone else put food on the table.” Sure will. The Brazilian machinist's table, the Mexican soybean farmer's table, the Airbus engineer's table in Spain...
Anything made or grown here is for sale elsewhere. Trump is doing a great job of opening up new markets and new trade deals.
3
The little guy isn't positioned to win this one in the long run, Mr. Jones.
8
Why are so many people upset that these nitwits are doing something against their own self-interest? It's the "heartland," not the "brainland."
I hate the term heartland, by the way. Total fiction.
24
Can’t cure stupid, but you can fire it.
14
‘Casey Jackson, a maintenance technician, said he would support the tariffs even if they cost him personally. “If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” he said. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”’
I find this incredibly interesting. Yet this same attitude does not apply to the ACA? This is an altruistic statement, yet does not apply to a marketplace approach to health insurance for all. I suppose I understand that - you don’t believe in helping others with health insurance (except for Medicare and VA, which almost everyone supports). But you do believe in creating more jobs. The question we all have to ask is: do you have any reason to believe new US jobs will offer good health insurance as a perk? Trends say no.
10
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it,” said one worker. “You got to look at the big picture. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
Where was this sacrifice when ACA was introduced??
5
As Forest Gump’s mom used to say, “Stupid is as stupid does”!
8
The people quoted in the story should take a moment to review Trump’s record related to Atlantic City and his fraudulent Trump University before expressing a willingness to sacrifice anything in support of his so-called “trade policy.”
15
Can you please explain why/how tariffs will bring back jobs to America? Isn't that the question these trump supporters should be asked, so they're made to ask it themselves.
8
The NYT last year, as I recall, reported on a study showing that the lowest income group in the US didn't vote and that the second lowest voted conservatively because they believed the lowest income group were living off government largesse paid for by the second lowest group and resented it. Of course, ironically, both groups would benefit from government benefits and policies advocated by progressive and liberal politicians who tend to be Democrats. These workers reflect that thinking and politicians fan the flames of suspicion and ignorance.
We need to educate both groups, all Americans really, and get everyone to cast an informed vote in all elections.
10
I agree with them that sometimes you have to take some short term pain for long term gain.
And I agree that prior to Trump, it did not appear that those in Washington cared much about these people.
I am not sure Trump is any different, but I can certainly understand their desperation.
2
@bob
They are not desperate. The company has been doing well. So let's stop the nonsense about the "desperate heartlanders." It all comes down to the racist cry heard after a black president's election: "I want my country back."
6
According to the article, Banner has been thriving and they've added eight workers in the past couple years. The cultists should be re-interviewed after the company has scaled back workers and paychecks.
20
Attitudes like the ones expressed here fascinate me. There was very little success in Trump’s business history unless you consider it successful to refuse to fully pay your suppliers, sell worthless education to vulnerable dupes, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying investors, and launder money for Russian oligarchs.
Add to that a pathological habit of lying along with an ignorance of economics and a disdain for self-education, and you have the perfect storm of pending disaster.
Yet, Trump’s minions continue to believe that he will lead us to the promised land of a vast number of great paying manufacturing jobs without any negative consequences.
Will they still be supporting him when jobs are lost when the manufacturers we do have can’t pay for the higher costs of raw materials or when the cheap imported clothes and appliances we have grown used to become a thing of the past?
I’ve given up trying to understand Trump supporters. We just need to wait to see how things turn out. And we need a vigorous press to keep uncovering and reporting the truth, even if many of us seemingly choose to ignore it.
22
I think "deplorable" was the correct description of these voters.
13
When the alternative is going down the road of radical socialism which is leading to starvation in Venezuela, of course they support Trump. What over choice do the have?
2
Remind me again when the US ever went, or proposed to go, down the path of radical socialism...
14
The word "Socialism" has lost its undeserved sting for anyone under about 45. Just bandying it about has no effect anymore except on people who gum their cottage cheese while watching Fox News. Europe has developed a quite happy, equitable society based upon social democracy, while our unbridled capitalism has turned us into beasts in the arena, fighting over scraps.
3
The day will arrive when push comes to shove will abandon all these all-knowing and self-assured “captains of industry” and their loyal workers.
They will be like baby birds with mouths agape demanding to be fed.
6
Ignorance is bliss and has supported the Republican cause for my lifetime.
11
Cool aid sipper. Very sad.
7
Willful ignorance has found, not only a home, but, a shrine in Donald Trump.
8
Cool. let them support Trump and suffer. Even Keynes would be rolling in his grave at this level of economic thinking.
8
Faith is a strange thing. Often there is no accounting for it. It defies reason. Meanwhile, those who count on or exploit the faithful should beware an awakening. Like an obsessive lover jilted, the result can be fearsome.
11
Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.
9
The tariffs have not really begun to bite yet. When they do, and pink slips start going out, attitudes will change.
17
What does it say about someone when Trump is their deity?
Volumes.
Trump is as antithetical to American values and ideals as, well, Vladimir Putin.
16
Just proves Trump was correct when he said he loved the uneducated and that he could murder someone on 5th Ave and not lose his support.
Just a note to these working people - Trump flies (to and from) his rallies in a private plane and goes directly to his golf clubs none of you will ever afford. You think his policies will eventually benefit you and the USA - only thing for sure is that they will benefit the Trump and the wealthy pals (why they are lining up to pledge billions to his campaign.
29
Taking a hit on your paycheck is worth it if they get to gloat about sticking it to libruls.
20
@InFraudWeTrust
I hope they start cutting off their noses, too.
1
These Trump supporters seemed sincere in their beliefs regardless of whether or not they are right or wrong. But would their sincerity have held up if this article had been written by breitbart reporters?
3
Surprise!
It's always been like this: Bush looted the American middle class to pay for his tax cuts for the rich, and conservatives responded by voting for him again. Democrats created job retraining programs to help the coal workers, and they responded by voting for a traitor.
These people are unable to learn, and I'm tired of trying to help them. If they want to keep shooting themselves in the face to make the already rich even richer, I can't stop them. I'll focus my efforts on helping people who still care about their country.
57
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
15
Has anyone told them that “tiny bit of sacrifice” they’re making for jobs isn’t being made by Trump or any of his rich, Mar-a-Lago (I just made you all a lot of money) golf buddies?
30
The naivete' of this manager is sad. He's leading his own employees into the dust. If he watched or read other media than Fox, he would know that he's being taken for a ride by a notorious con man. But his own pride won't let himself do the right thing.
Trump is a charlatan who doesn't give a darn about this company or any company but his own. It's like herding steer off a cliff for the taking.
12
Maybe Mitt can go there, buy the company, squeeze it like a grape, declare bankruptcy, fire everyone, and let the Chinese buy the remainder.
They would still vote for trump. Because. Obama.
43
Wishfull thinking for the flip flopper in the White House.
3
“I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now. I’m looking at what’s best for the national economy.”
“If it comes out of my paycheck, so be it. That tiny bit of sacrifice we make will create jobs.”
"Because its costs have risen, the company had to put off buying a $1 million laser cutting apparatus and hiring two new employees to operate it."
"“I know the tariffs have an impact on us, but I don’t think it was a mistake.”"
What hypocrites these people are! These same people screamed bloody murder at Pres Obama and the Democrats for supposedly lowering their incomes and raising their taxes; but when Trump does worse things that hit them directly, suddenly they're OK with taking the hits, and feel altruistic towards the rest of the country?
If they honestly wanted to help out the national economy and/or help out their poorer neighbors, how about simply paying more taxes for universal heathcare? How about making more donations to food pantries, rather than complaining about too many people being on welfare?
I'm sorry, but I'm tired of "being nice" and giving these people the benefit of the doubt, when Trump feels absolutely no remorse calling other people idiots. So I'm going to call these people idiots.
(Of course, the NYTimes will probably censor my comment for "not being civil"; meanwhile, you print every nasty and uncivil tweet-attack that Trump makes on individuals. It's time for us all to start fighting fire with fire.)
42
I think these endless articles on trump cultists need to abate here. We get it. They love him no matter what. The media maybe could focus on other people in this country who haven’t completely lost our minds. And on what we think. And want. Let’s move on. These people are hopeless.
61
The economy? It's the racism, Stupid.
29
The bad news is that tariffs protect the few at the expense of the many. While these workers may think they are nobly sacrificing to help their fellow Americans, they are simply the collateral damage of thoughtless policy.
The Trump-led Republican Party they actually voted for is duping them to gain power so they can transfer as much money as possible to the 1%; look no further than the Trump tax cuts, of which 17% of the benefit goes to the bottom 60%. If you include millions more without health insurance, the inequity is even worse.
Obama did exactly what was needed: Raise taxes on the top 1% to help 20 million people get healthcare. We should double down on that to get the remaining 20 million citizens covered. One easy way to do it is simply to treat capital gains and dividends as ordinary income for the top 1%, bringing in $100 billion/year in revenue. We can also go back to year 2000 rates on the top 1% for another $110 billion to get most of our kids through college or trade school.
Republican workers need to stop voting against their own interests.
24
The people at this factory never see or hear about all the jobs created by companies that export to other trade partner countries. And they do not realize that trade deficits are not a scorecard. A trade deficit with another country is not “losing.” The tariffs are pointless but not cost less. GM sells more cars in China than in the US. The biggest American exporter of cars is BMW. That volume of business is in jeopardy with Trump’s tariffs, all to no ultimate purpose.
6
I wouldn't expect a whole lot of negativity from folks like this until there are serious repercussions. The tariffs so far are hardly earth-shattering and the economy as a whole is still on the steep upward trajectory it's been on since 2014-15. Today, even at a place like this that relies heavily on imports, the worst repercussion has been that they didn't hire two new employees.
If they had to fire two employees instead I imagine things would change. I'm sure everyone at this factory would agree with me when I say I hope things don't go that far before Trump and our trading partners stop this nonsense.
5
There is nobility in the willingness to sacrifice for the greater good.
But, at this point, there's no excuse for not knowing who Trump is. And, specifically, there's no reason to believe that anything he's doing is going to work out well for America.
So, this doesn't look like real nobility. Rather, it looks like people being willing to suffer rather than admit they were wrong about Trump.
24
Finally somebody wants to reintroduce the buggy whip industry. It’s also nice to see the optimism surrounding people willing to insult other countries and break rules anticipate that we’ll all come running back once you’ve put our steel and aluminum plants out of business.
13
@R. Koreman Nothing wrong with a buggy and whip, just ask the Amish. Until winter comes along, then that unheated buggy isn't so much fun.
They have yet to realize economics is a science. Which has demonstrated time and again, broad tariffs fail everyone.
8
Prices are up and margins are down. Not an auspicious beginning to the trade policy intended to help companies like Banner Metals.
“I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,” said Bronson Jones, a part-owner of the company and its chief executive. “I’m looking at what’s best for the national economy. The U.S. has been taken advantage of for too long.”
Interesting sentiment because most business owners -- including Trump himself -- would say that you should always look out first for your own company and workers. What's good for you is good for the country.
The irony here is that Banner has been doing well, not because of Trump's policies, but those of the prior administration, policies that slowly and deliberately, with little fanfare, rebuilt the economy after the disaster of 2008. Improvements that they are, for whatever reason, failing to see.
With margins down, Banner's workers will not see pay raises. How is that ultimately good for the country?
16
@historyprof And if they aren't going to see raises now, what about when the full force of these tariffs starts to really hurt, and pink slips are the new norm.
4
I certainly believe that these workers/owners are sincere in their desire to create more jobs. However, the tariffs will cost jobs, not create them, but understanding that would require that you do the research to know that. Ask these fine people in a year if they are ok with their unemployment checks and lack of healthcare.
9
@John McDermott And their food stamps, keep in mind these are the same people that think that any social program (even if they directly benefit from it) is socialism, and should be gotten rid of.
5
Let's not sugar coat it. We are in quite a bit of Trump-bubble trouble. It is gonna burst, and it is going to be very messy, sad and dangerous.
11
I hope the NYT follows up on this factory and others hit by tRumps tariffs in 6 months.
Once the 2nd or 3rd round of layoffs kick in for Christmas, maybe they'll change their minds.
But on the other hand, maybe not.
Cult followers are like that.
19
@Mark Rarely do cult followers leave the cult willingly, usually they will die. Look at Waco, and Jim Jones, and Heaven's gate, (those were the one's that thought that there was a spaceship in the Hale Bopp comet tail) in all of those cults, many people died along with family members, by drinking kool aid (Jim Jones) which is where the term "drinking the kool aid" came from.
“Despite the perception of an uneven playing field in trade, Banner has been thriving”
That’s because tough competition encourages effefiency while tariffs allow poor performers (US Steel?) to carry on. Which is bad for the long term economy.
3
People sure are willing to accept a lot from a President . . . if he’s white.
43
>>The way he bullies everybody and bends the truth,” Mr. Sayre said.
And yet Mr Sayre takes for granted the economic claims of this truth-bending bully.
13
I really hope I am wrong. But, these people are placing their lives, and America, on the whims and disillusion of a senile (and possibly a man with Alzhiemer's) who demands Hitler like allegiance. Who has a life view of 1930's America where people of color were not on the lilly white streets of his weird world.
Will they survive? I hope they do. I am born Detroit auto, but the post WWII world no longer exists. trump can try to pretend, and his followers can pretend, but it is long gone. No amount of destroying 2018 can bring back 1955.
30
"Stupid is as stupid does." Forest Gump.
6
What many are ignoring and something media tried too hard to avoid was the fact that Trump's base does not have economic anxiety. They don't care if their wages are lower or if they lose their jobs, they care about attacking liberals, racial minorities and immigrants. This is a movement founded on hate, it has nothing to do with their pocketbook. That's why they will happily accept lower wages due to tariffs, but will cry foul if someone mentions increasing the minimum wage. This occurs because the minimum wage helps poor people, which they consider to be undeserving black and brown people.
14
When you can't see the forest for the tweets...
4
The silence from Libertarians is twice as deafening as the silence from "fiscal responsibility" "free market economy" Republicans.
11
“I’m not looking at what’s best for Banner right now,... I’m looking at what’s best for the national economy."
At best this is naive, at worst it is delusional.
Banner puts off a million dollar machine purchase and creating two jobs.... Harley Davidson, other automakers move production out of the country. Soybeans soybeans soybeans...
The people who can least afford it are about to have their pocketbooks hit hard if Trump keeps this up.
8
I kind of feel sorry for the people who blindly follow the Republican lead.
To me, it is a result of having Republicans shortchange education so that they produce an electorate that is only smart enough to run the machines, but not question anything beyond that.
They, in turn, become willing stooges that accept whatever is told to them, and vilify anything that goes against that.
When things go bad in a few years, they will blame Democrats for their woes.
And, so, the cycle renews itself.
13
Trump's base act as a personality cult every bit as fanatical and unreasoning as the Red Guards of China's Cultural "Revolution". Follow me to trade barriers, higher prices, cancelled machine orders and more jobs?
Vote in November to end the personality cult of trump.
4
These are the same type of people who destroyed manufacturing in Detroit. Ask these people if they can name the three branches of our government, or if the earth is round. Ninety percent of the people who live around me don’t know what the periodic table is or what rare earths are. Their opinion means nothing.
6
In plain language, tarriffs are a giant tax increase for ordinary Americans after a giant tax cut for corporations.
Democrats and the media have to do a better job of framing what's really going on.
11
What’s going on here is that these folks are flattered by the recognition that Trump has given to their situation. It doesn’t matter that that recognition and related actions fall somewhere in the range of useless to harmful.
What we’ve seen is that such recognition, along with some well aimed shots at illegals, is sufficient effort in a few rust belt states to ace the Electoral College. Democrats take note. Esp those whose mantra is shut down ICE.
8
No, it will not "come out of your paycheck", it will take your paycheck - all of it.
6
600 Billion in a trade deficit and millions of American jobs being exported is the real problem
Trump is finally telling the rest of the world that the free ride is over. This is the beginning of a real free trade deal that will create millions of American jobs.
The irony is that after the whining by foreign socialist politicians and next to American workers, the best winners will be foreign consumers... especially the poor... who will have access to competitive American products and services.
3
Trump needs the tariffs to pay for the tax cuts.
Trouble is, the very same people who think they will benefit from the tax cuts will be paying for them through higher prices.
And then they will scratch their heads and conclude that it was all Obama's fault.
17
@Kara Ben Nemsi And that criminal Hilary Clinton, and James Comey, and anyone else that has had the misfortune of coming anywhere near Trump, and his stain. That's the funny thing about dirt, it gets on anyone that get's close to it.
4
We will have to check attitudes a year from now when not only the price of steel effects these same people but the higher prices consumer goods they buy affect their wallets. If Hillary had done this they would all be screaming "Lock her Up".
12
@Steve actually, they are still shouting Lock her up.
5
People want to sacrifice their own jobs for Trump? Crazy.
6
The blind men and the elephant...
1
Why are we always trying to rationalize insanity?
7
Trump certainly was right about one thing. Even if Trump shot someone in broad daylight on 5th Ave., a jury of these folks would find him not guilty.
Until Trump, I never appreciated the power of a dissatisfied person longing for an intoxicating scapegoat, excuse, or rationalization. Facts just get in the way.
14
Earth to Mars:
They are going to take their whole paycheck because they are going to be FIRED. Trumpists prefer to shoot themselves on the foot and continuing supporting the politics of resentment and ignorance.
5
Maybe it's a form of Stockholm Syndrome.
8
I remember the phrase "good Germans" to describe the ordinary folks who were complicit with the atrocities of the Nazi regime. I suppose now we have our own version, the "good Americans" who refuse to see what is before their very eyes and who will probably remain complicit no matter what outrage Trump and his minions perpetrate. Given Trump's proclivities so far I must assume that overt racism and possible treason are just fine so long as it is their racist and their traitor. Trump said it himself, and now I believe it wholeheartedly -- ""I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay? It's, like, incredible." So much for the arc of civilization.
8
It’s ok to take it out of their paychecks? Then why fight healthcare for all, and taxes to support a better lifestyle for all Americans? Brain dead Trump thinking at its best!
6
Good. Let the deplorables suffer. They should also experience coal ash in their water, oil wells in national parks, renewable energy business going to the Chinese, and more polluted air and smog, and less affordable medical care. He just wants your votes and to appeal to your worse instincts. Stupidity has a special price in democracies.
6
One can only hope that the impacts of Trump's short-sighted, ignorant, and destructive tariff policies hit Trump country with a special brutality. The more layoffs, closed factories, and foreclosed farms, the more these people may understand what they have done to the rest of us. Let that famous "Invisible Hand" of the market that Republicans are always so enamored with, smash Trump country right in the nose.
8
Lumpenproletariat. Low lives not interested in improving their state . See Marx
6
Do the people of Columbus, Ohio know that Donald Trump got 9% of the votes in Manhattan, his hometown. 9%. Because the good citizens of Manhattan have watched this con man and liar for forty years and are sickened and disgusted with him. Believe me, your time will come Columbus!
13
Well-known psychological studies show that once a person has made up his/her mind, it's almost impossible to change it. This is why Trump voters believe him rather than their lyin' eyes and ears, and why they will continue to do so.
The only thing that MIGHT get them to change their minds would be a videotape capturing Trump saying: "All those people who keep supporting me? They're complete idiots. The only thing I'm interested in is making money for myself, and getting people to say how great I am. I couldn't care less whether my supporters even have food to put on the the table or a roof over their heads. It's all about me, and only me, 100% of the time."
9
When they are all either unemployed or without social security because a pathological liar killed the Golden economy Obama gave him, and when all of Florida is under water because of climate change, and when the south has no drinking water, it’s temperatures routinely > 100 - the coastal elite democrats will have the last laugh.
4
How do you know when it’s a real cult in America?
Answer: When the cultists are willing to die economically to serve their leader.
12
It is a cult! We must stop being surprised.
4
the fact that trump and the republican leadership continually manipulate their constituents by cutting funding for higher education while at the same feeding them lies that take advantage of that lack is sickening. But when people who oppose Trump refer to his supporters as stupid, Ignorant etc. this only pushes them further into his clutches. Opposition to the current administration should in my opinion be focused on education rather than the slandering of anyone who had cast a vote in his favor.
5
It is great to get a feel for the temperature, but it is way too early to feel real pain over the tariffs. Talk to these same people in a year when they have lost contracts, customers and jobs. There are companies that are already estimating job-loss and revenue impacts. Some farmers will not recover. Wait until the first full closure.
5
My Trump is the best thing that ever happened to Canada. Canada and Canadians have had congenial relations with the US in days gone by, which were actually detrimental. Instead of pursuing markets elsewhere for our goods and services, we've taken the path of least resistance which ultimately led to the US. One example of the detrimental effect this has had, is our current and former governing parties fixated on the pipeline to the south, when pipelines east and west should have been completed years ago. Canadians, just like Americans, have been sold out by politicians, shareholders and business who pursue increasing profits year after year, without ever developing new products, processes or ideas. Instead, they've moved off shore, where the cost to produce those products is less. Hopefully, the end result of Mr Trump's machinations will be, that the countries affected will once again become more reliant on homegrown goods and services,, and will learn to keep their eggs in many baskets. It's a big world out there, and the US is finally waking up to the fact that the American dream ended decades ago, and without them realizing it, it's become the American nightmare.
1
Give it up Dems -- and NY Times. Trump won largely because this part of the electorate H.A.T.E.S. the values of people who vote blue. Stop obsessing over how they perceive Trump and their unwavering support they shower upon him. Their deeply held beliefs will not be budged; it's not news. Obsess over whether we are going to be allowed, enabled, encouraged to express our equal and opposite passion. Our leaders -- and media -- keep telling us to ramp down the rhetoric. The other side has had generations of media folk telling them how great they are and just how awful dems are, all the way back to Father Conklin (and even earlier, I'm sure). We simply have to win by getting out the larger vote. If we cannot do that, we will live with red state values in every state of the union. It's really that simple. If there's anything for us to learn from the red playbook, it is the power of passion. And we could really, really use lots of news stories putting that passion on the front page and above the fold. Those are the stories and reinforcement we need if we truly want all Americans, not just the select, to live the very best American life their talents and skills and initiative can garner.
3
I read this and I consider Trump's vicious, lying war on Canada and I can only say that I hope that this factory closes its doors really soon, as the cost of steel escalates. The US has not been taken advantage of by anyone; the US is the actor that takes advantage of others. And the problems of US manufacturing reflect the realities of automation and the fact that US business has switched the economy to a service-based economy. These people are fine with Trump attacking other countries and trying to wreck every other states' economies; I sincerely hope that they pay a price for their support of that kind of thuggishness.
7
I sure hope these Trump loyalists don't expect any government help when they lose their jobs due to Trump's ill considered tariffs.
9
And here we see an employee running a machine that will be automated to compensate for fallout of this financial policy.
When will they look up and see the freight train coming at them?
4