Not a fun puzzle or theme.
2
Late-night queries (in case anyone's still paying attention):
Did anyone else think LAMINA was plural?
Is DARENT *really* a contraction?
Did anyone know TARBES?
Ditto NONEGOS?
OTHELO before OTELLO?
Just curious ...
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There is no OTHELO, Ron.
The play is OTHELLO.
The opera (with the aria) is OTELLO.
I DAREN'T say more...
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Barry , you old curmudgeon. You could have left that one alone :-)
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I liked the theme entries and spent a bit of time figuring them out. OUTSTANDING BILLS took a very long time due to several errors. My favorite was KILLER BEE with SMASHING PUMPKINS coming in a close second.
I understand SO TO bed as a romantic question, although being mother and grandmother, gO TO bed is far more frequently used.
I think the last few days have been a little more difficult than usual but have to give props to the puzzle crafters. Brilliant stuff.
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"And so to bed" is a classic and clicheed ending for a diary entry. I don't think of it as romantic/sexual. But I never got it. Once "go to bed" entered my brain, it refused to be erased.
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Somewhat disappointed with the puzzle. I enjoy trickery in a Sunday puzzle, like two weeks ago. Nevertheless, the theme entries were indeed clever and fun to guess. And I guess I shouldn't expect crazy tricks every week!
Much discussion about JARTS, which was almost my undoing. Had dARTS (and no "Congratulations!" window). Checked the puzzle over and questioned dEDI at 77D. JEDI, of course!
1
FINALLY made it to QB status (43 words, 191 points). What a slog! I spent about 2 hours on the last word - a modern portmanteau. The other major hold-up was an alternate spelling of one of the 8-letter words.
Average points per word was high (4.44), with 2 pangrams. 70% of words were 4-5 letters long, but we had 8 sixes, 2 sevens, 2 eigths and one nine.
On the CLOTBUR scale (0-10) I's day it scored a 1.
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Hi Nice Cuppa,
Tech checker here. Did you intentionally make this post about the Bee a reply to Ron's post which had nothing to do with the Bee? If not, were you trying to reply on another thread (if so, which one) or did you intend it as a new thread starter?
Thank you, Nice Cuppa! When you said an alternate spelling of an 8-ltr word, I knew immediately what I had missed.
(I noticed that my comments end up any old place, so you may never see this.)
Enjoyed the theme. But I was hoping for "nice coat" / "BOSS TWEED"
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Good that, MOL!
And SO TO [SOTTO voce] bed...
I had thought there was a movie about Mr. Peeps, perhaps going to Washington or some such, but searching on "Mr Peeps" mainly brings up a slew of triple-X rated venues.
Back to East Podunk, Imre!
Don't know why this reply came here instead of to the 'and SO TO bed' thread, but it's taking the place of a reply admiring Brian/ LA's BOSS TWEED that has evanesced.
Tammany haul away
and Elke
Did not leave enough time to enjoy this punny puzzle.
Thus I decided , instead of going for the 'Queen Bee' status in the Spelling Bee, to declare myself a KILLER BEE- a status between GENIUS (which I reach stably(!) and reliably ) and the elusive Queen Bee.
Back to the Sunday puzzle.
KILLER BEE of a puzzle! I liked it a lot!
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Interesting, but I prefer puzzles that make you think and reason, rather than Google Downton Abbey, et al.
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I agree with you. However rather than Googling Downton Abbey, I try to think and reason as to what might be possible letters in the name that would produce a reasonable sounding surname, and would those letters make sense in the cross. It is surprising how many letters can often be counted out based on what the adjacent letter is.
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I didn't know the player in question either, but I did know 1, 2, 3, 4 and 27 Down, and they were kind enough to make the introduction.
(It's called a crossword for a reason)
ASHE ASHEN ASHCAKE? Smokin'!! I saw the cornbread was going to be ASH- but part of me was really hoping for HOE-
Call me a SIC SONOFA WHEEL if you must, but I can't decide whether to compliment the artist on the pencil sketch, the Boy Scout on the perfect bowline-on-a-bight, or the carpenter on the woodworking marker, Guess the Ezerden Walsky collaboration came out TOP DRAWER and TOPKNOT as well as TOP NOTCH.
Tariff ick, Gentlemen.
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Hand up for HOECAKE.
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Thanks to Family Ties, I’ll always remember SCUBA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-HKWIorBbw
Entertaining puzzle!
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I once owned a set of Jarts. They offered an alternative to horseshoes that could be played anywhere. Unfortunately they could be lethal anywhere, too.
Caitlin’s comment “This aspect — a wide-open grid, it’s called, with fewer long words and black boxes…” is phrased a bit confusingly, no? There are fewer black boxes, and fewer words, which are long, but not fewer long words (than usual). OK, now I see how difficult it is to state that succinctly.
Finished this in about 2/3 of my average, so now I have more time to stare at Spelling Bee (thanks to Nice Cuppa for showing me where to find it yesterday).
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Fewer, albeit longer, words?
I have the same Rule, Magpie. In fact I don’t allow any outside help - spouse, reading Wordplay, etc. It makes Fridays through Sundays challenging but satisfying!
P.S. I don’t mean to demean those who do Google... everyone should do whatever they like to make puzzling fun - otherwise why do them? Doing them as I do makes them fun for me, although sometimes I wonder if I’m holding myself to a needlessly higher standard... Oh well, I’ve been like this since I can remember, and at my age it’s doubtful I’ll change!
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Steve, like you I have similar rules, although occasional spousal help makes for a more social activity. I refuse to use Google, (except for sheer desperation once I have given up), and I would surely never demean anyone who does rely on Google. However I did have to respond to one poster who uses Google and then seems to blame this on the inferior puzzle quality.
Chalk up another KILL, Sam and Byron. TARBES and the candy bar crossed to form a Natick for me (I've never heard of either, so I let the CLIFF stand. And then there was JEDI, but I absolutely refused to put JARTS in there.
They were LAWN DARTS, never anything else, and yes, they were a deadly menace.
So, finished with two wrong letters. It's too hot to think here, and I overdid it outside yesterday....plus the mosquitoes seem undeterred. Stay safe, everyone!
Did anybody try THEDALEKS for TIMELORDS?
Took me a while to sort out that mess.
3
I did.
1
World Cup final, Wimbledon, and this fine puzzle. It's a good day on planet Earth.
6
I liked this theme; each one took quite a bit of thought so my interest was held throughout the solve.
I was sharing it with Wimbledon, and now to watch the mixed doubles which I always enjoy a lot.
1
So this is what happens when two nice guys get together, they create one mean puzzle. I loved the challenge and, in fact, the whole concept. The only one I can think of is GRAND SCALE with the clue, "Compliment to a mountaineer?"
SMASHINGPUMPKINS is my favorite.
Whoever dreamed up JARTS should be forced to stand in the middle of the target. OK, OK, that's a little harsh but the whole idea of hurling sharp, weighted objects around the yard is ridiculous!
It was funny because I thought the Garth Brooks song might be THE river. So when THE SEINE showed up, I said, well, there's the river.
Very entertaining Sunday puzzle, Sam and Byron, much appreciated!
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"I had the most difficulty with the NE and found a number of clues to be unknown to me and somewhat obscure."
"so many obscurities. ...JARTS,... ECHECK (is that a thing?), RICER..."
Sunday solver phenomenon? If I don't know it, it's obscure?
In the NE, I had absolutely no idea about 12A, and I needed every single crossing letter to fill it in. I haven't watched the Tonight Show much since Jack Paar left, but I know several million people do, so unknown to me but hardly obscure. Caitlin didn't recognize 17D, but she didn't claim it was obscure.
I'm fairly good at doing crosswords, but -- surprise -- I don't know every entry even if I "get" the clue. Am I in the minority being happy to learn new words and terms from puzzles? I'm not sure I'll use JARTS much (got it from the crosses), but if I hadn't known RICER or ECHECK before, I would have been happy to learn them. I knew the French pastiche, but today I learned the Italian and original PASTICCIO. I think this is good, not bad.
I don't know about anybody else, but if I didn't want to be challenged by or learn anything from crossword puzzles, I'd just do Mondays.
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I wish I could Recommend this comment 10 times!
1
RICER was pure evil!!
You are right, this one was a painful piece of pleasure.
Now, now. A RICER is a common kitchen tool. Not long ago mine went to a new home when DHubby gave up his wine-making and sold all the equipment.
Before people could make mashed potatoes from a box of flakes, they actually boiled potatoes and then put them in this conical pierced item and used a wooden implement to press the soft potatoes through the openings. This explains the popularity of potato flakes; it was the job from hell, using the RICER.
SPEELLING BEE update: I'm on 177 points/40 words/2 pangrams; which is 14 points short of QB status. Nothing too CLOTBURial this morning, but I'm off to watch the world cup now, so see you later.
1
I have 42 words, 184 points. Two pangrams. I can't figure out what I'm missing, so have deteriorated to gibberish. One long word or some short words, I dunno. When I found this puzzle, I swore to myself I would not mind if I did not "win." Myself, meet myself.
I think it's time to quit, and prepare to facepalm tomorrow!
3
Probably protected now under the right to bear arms.
I stuck to hoecake until there just wasn't any possibility that it was right.
You gotta love the banter that OCTOPI always stimulates. Sure it's inaccurate, but usage often trumps formal rules.
Plus, it has a pleasing ring to it and it conjures up curious mental images. An 8-legged PI symbol? A PIE with 8 ingredients?
Fun stuff!
3
My rule is no Googling. That can make for a lot of tedium when the puzzle has so many obscurities. TARBES, OSSICLE, GABY, GADOT, JARTS, ASHCAKE, NONEGOS, ECHECK (is that a thing?), RICER, prayer WHEEL, IMRE, SOTO. First 30 minutes were fun, then it turned into a slog. Your mileage may vary.
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Alert for Sunday-only commenters...
If you are going to post a "reply," please "reply" to the last reply on the thread, not to the post that starts a thread. By replying to the last reply, you will preserve the earlier replies; replying to the thread-starting comment purges earlier replies.
Thank you!
(Weekday commenters have been alerted to this.)
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Are you serious? This is the state of computer technology at the NY Times? This is a serious question - I seldom read the Comments so I don't keep abreast of issues. I often see references to glitches when I do tune in. Every time there is an article or column in the NY Times lauding what technology and computers are, or will be, doing for us there ought to be a mandatory reference to the problems the NY Times has with its computer programming. Really, the emperor (IT) is not wearing any clothes.
3
Yes, that was a serious comment.
In the "Not only...but also" department, I've been getting another wrinkle the past couple of days and wonder whether any others are seeing the same.
If I have replied to a comment (or reply) and try to reply to another comment further along, I can't do it. First of all, my first reply appears in the new comment box. Secondly, if I delete that and enter another reply, nothing happens when I press 'submit'. Pressing a second time earns a red-ink message that I've recently submitted a comment and to cool it for a bit. Waiting for up to 15-20 minutes doesn't clear the way, but if I refresh, I can enter another reply immediately.
If anyone else has something similar going on, I'd deem it worth reporting; o/w I'll just consider myself an outlier and hope this will resolve in time.
After half an hour, I had a few scattered answers, some of which turned out to be wrong. And what I had wasn't leading me any where else.
In the unlikely event that anyone else struggled with this (unlikely given the current comments), perhaps you can take a tiny bit of solace in knowing that you at least did better than one solver.
5
I also found this puzzle to be confounding. Although I ultimately got about 80 percent of the fill it was a struggle. I had the most difficulty with the NE and found a number of clues to be unknown to me and somewhat obscure. Oh well, it was still a fun, if not frusyrating , exercise.
4
I remember playing with lawn darts as a kid. After all the fuss they were taken away. Pretty dumb toy. The friend who had them also had guns, four-wheelers, bows, knives. But they did take away the lawn darts!
I wonder if lawn darts would be banned today.
2
I’ve heard “off TO BED” and “go TO BED”, but “SO TO BED” doesn’t ring a bell.
3
I thought it was a Shakespearean reference, but could not put my finger on a quote. Found it in 17th century Samuel Pepys diary instead: https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1665/12/30/
2
It rang a bell from old movies, but only after I had it filled in from the crosses -- found this from Bing Crosby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTSMxxNRHpM
I didn't know the origin, but the phrase is quite familiar, though in full I think it should be AND so to bed. I may even have said it a couple of times myself.
Probably not the original meaning, but I've always associated it with the end of an unusually busy day, when one could finally cross off the last of a long list of tasks. At last I'm done; and so to bed.
3
Good construction. BRIG, ASHCAKE and ASHEN took a while to fall into place. SMASHING PUMPKINS made for a laugh and sigh of relief.
After this one I am ready for the World Cup finals ...
Semi - related question - is the spelling bee available on the app?
2
The spelling bee isn't available in the app, unfortunately. I called to check when I first started hearing about it but couldn't find it. Go to https://www.nytimes.com/crosswords and scroll down.
If you are having trouble finding it with the app, follow this link:
https://www.nytimes.com/puzzles/spelling-bee
If you can't click on the link then Google "Spelling Bee - the New York Times" and follow the link there.
In before someone complains about the completely acceptable OCTOPI...
1
yes, the plural of octopus is octopuses. It is not Latin and octopi is not correct.
N.B. "Grammatically correct" and "acceptable in a crossword puzzle" are not (necessarily) the same thing.
The plural octopi is hypercorrect, coming from the mistaken notion that the -us in octopūs is a Latin second declension ending. The word is actually treated as a third declension noun in Latin. The plural octopodes follows the Ancient Greek plural, ὀκτώποδες (oktṓpodes). The plural octopii is based on an incorrect attempt to pluralise the word based on an incorrect assumption of its origin, and is rare and widely considered to be nonstandard.
Sources differ on which plurals are acceptable: Fowler's Modern English Usage asserts that “the only acceptable plural in English is octopuses”, while Merriam-Webster and other dictionaries accept octopi as a plural form. The Oxford English Dictionary lists octopuses, octopi, and octopodes (the order reflecting decreasing frequency of use), stating that the last form is rare.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus
Barry,
Tamale trap???
I believe that the clue for AVENGED is incorrect. To avenge is to get back for, not at. Following the direct substitution rule:
"He got back at his brother" is not the same as "He avenged his brother". Dictionary.com seems to agree as well.
13
I'm familiar with "direct substitution" in calculus, not in crossword puzzle cluing. In any case...
get back at
phrasal verb of get
1.
take revenge on (someone).
"I wanted to get back at them for what they did"
synonyms: take revenge on, exact/wreak revenge on, avenge oneself on, take vengeance on, get even with, pay back, retaliate on/against, exact retribution on, give someone their just deserts
The clue works for me. You’re still getting back at someone, just because you’re doing it on someone else’s behalf doesn’t change that.
2
No I agree that the clue is inaccurate.
Direct substitution is a basic principle of crossword clues: you should be able to replace the clue with answer in a sentence (with a few quirky exceptions like 'It's a wrap!' for SHAWL).
You avenge someone who was wronged. You get back at the wrongdoer. They don't mean the same thing.
4
My aha moment: when I realized why “brig” was the answer to “water cooler?” Very clever.
11
Same here! The g was the last letter in the puzzle I entered, then I had to stop and think why it was correct.
1
Liked the puzzle , but daren't ?? I dare not ask why .
1
Even after getting "brig" and the puzzle... I am still missing the connection between water cooler and brig. Going nuts trying to figure this out.
This felt chewier than the usual Sunday for me. The first words of some of the phrases (OUTSTANDING, RADICAL) came easily while the associated nouns didn’t. And some were exactly the reverse (STELLAR was nearly the last fill). It mostly felt like a Goldilocks puzzle—not too easy, not too hard.
That far western section with STELLAR and KILLER BEE and SCENTED was my last fill. I was desperately trying to conjure up a mental map of the Caribbean and then realized that I was thinking Windward/Leeward Islands (which I can never keep straight) and confusing them with Greater/Lesser Antilles. Getting a few letters of BARBADOS helped clarify that!
Being a former reference librarian, I’m always happy with a good taxonomy.
3
Easy yet clever and fun.
But I never heard of ashcake.
5
@caitlin -- another couple is SOTO and SOTTO
Now I feel like going to the deli and complimenting the proprietor on the SUPER NOVA.
I don't know how many times I came close to finally getting a theme answer but just didn't have enough letters to crack it. Finally, finally, when SMASHING PUMPKINS emerged, that gave me the ammunition to attack the other themers. There were 14 answers outside my wheelhouse, and yet... and yet... I somehow filled this whole thing in without any aid, and that is the mark of good construction. And so I'm not surprised, as I was working on this, that I kept thinking, "This puzzle wreaks of quality!"
Excellent one, guys!
3
I had Sunshine before SMASHING but once I had PUMPKINS I saw the error of my ways.
This offered a little more resistance than most Sunday puzzles, an yet, my time was about my average. I had sunshine before SMASHING but quickly changed that once I had pumpkins. Overall, a nice workout.
My favorite SMASHING PUMPKINS song: 1979.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aeETEoNfOg
Not too hard a Sunday despite what I considered several near-Naticks.
One night at trivia, we were asked which Beatle shared his name with the greatest number of English kings, and it was a trick question , of course.
There have been more King Richards than any other, and the answer was Ringo - Richard Starsky, by birth.
Sir Richard Starkey MBE
(Starsky was with Hutch)
Patrick, I'm confused. Was your question worded in some strange way? There were three English kings named Richard. There were six Georges. What am I missing?
1
Perhaps the wording was “Which Beatle shares the same first name as three Kings of England?”
1
Pretty good workout.
2
My compliments to the co-constructors.
Outstanding, if not epic.
Sweet, if not stellar.
Solid, if not killer.
Smashing, if not radical.
Pass the ASHCAKE.
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