A thought for Democrats: have you considered characterizing Trump as Hitler, ICE as SS, and the US as a fascist state? That would be a compelling argument, a winner for sure.
9
Dems need to grow a spine. When Trump yells the Dems are protecting M-13, no one fights back to say that is not true. When Trump yells the Dems want Sanctuary cities and want to protect criminals, no one fights back and says that is a lie. But when Maxine Waters (and I am not a big fan of Maxine but I support her in speaking out) fights back because what is happening in our country in unbearable to watch, Schumer finds his voice to put down someone in his own party.
When are the Dems going to stand up to this administration? Tomorrow I am heading down to voter registration and changing my affiliation to Independent. I have had it with Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer, and the whole lot of them and I am now putting my faith in someone like Alexandria Cortez who is not afraid to say on national TV that she is a fighter, won't back down, and will fight for what she believes. Finally, someone with a backbone. And she will stand up to her own party.
Pelosi will be hiding for cover. Cortez and Bernie Sanders showed Pelosi they don't need to rely on her for fundraising. And now with the Janus decision, that took a big chunk out of their coffers.
6
For decades there has been no credible left wing in this country. The call to abolish ICE should lead the way as part of a new front in the Democratic Party. A front that encompasses; health care for all, switching to renewable energy, infrastructure spending, free college, a humane immigration policy, protection of women's reproductive rights, higher taxes for the rich and a serious, stringent carbon reduction plan. We need to reform the way our government is structured so that a minority party without a moral compass may not hijack it. Let the Democrats stand for something once again.
7
HBO is running a series where a very under-informed progressive Black man discusses and offers solutions to so-called "problem areas," most of which revolve around policing. Progressives on the show regularly refer to law enforcement as a means of oppressing poor people, some of them calling for complete evacuation of police from poor neighborhoods (aka abolish the police). This narrative is gaining currency among progressives who claim that the US is engaged in "mass incarceration," the idea being that we intentionally over-police black communities to incarcerate black people to take away their voting rights and deprive them of political power. They blame the crimes giving rise to the incarceration on systemic poverty, racism, etc . . . anything other than antisocial behavior or individual choice.
This narrative, like the new progressive call to abolish ICE, shows how far the American left has come in viewing almost any law enforcement as a purpose-built machine for rapacious oppression by the wealthy. For now Trump is probably right that most Americans don't view the country in this way and will reject candidates centered in this ideology. Unfortunately, this is exactly what your children are being taught as fact in school, between trigger warnings and political correctness orientations. Unchecked it will become the national mindset and will fuel the ascent of those who despise the founders' vision of America as land of freedom and individual liberty.
4
Those who wish to do away with ICE, as I do, need to present the alternative options: a positive, helpful, compassionate IMMIGRATION SERVICE, one that responds to those seeking asylum or crossing the border without papers who may not know the ins and outs of seeking asylee or refugee status. Whatever the alternatives, they need to be articulated well and often. It isn't enough to call down the evils without fostering the good.
6
Once again Trump attacks Democrats. I'm surprised he didn't blame them for ICE's poor optics in recent weeks.
Mr. Trump has a real talent for one thing: turning things upside down and then darting out of the way when he fails.
I can't wait to vote against Republicans in the midterms.
6
It would be very foolish for the Democrats to completely want to abolish immigration laws. We need a better consensus. Separating children absolutely isn't one of them.
As a Democrat I'm saying they had Better get their act together show a united front . Discuss issues that We the People are Concerned about.
So far I am looking at a empty lot.
Talking Loud Saying Nothing.
We Did Need Border Patrol.
What country don't. patrol their borders.
8
Here's the winning message for Democrats in November:
Every vote for any Republican at any level of government is
A vote against Social Security.
A vote against Medicare/Medicaid.
A vote against SNAP assistance.
A vote against clean air and clean water.
A vote against women's choice.
A vote against decades of civil rights and voting rights law enforcement.
A vote against strong public education.
A vote against strong democratic institutions and the rule of law.
If Democrats turn November into a referendum on Trump and appear to attack law and order his base will get fired up over accusations Democrats favor open borders without any control.
14
superb!
3
It seems obvious to me that our struggle to find a viable combination of policies and executive agencies to impose decency and good order on our immigration controls cannot possibly be moved forward by abolishing one constrained law enforcement agency. Advocating such an ill-considered, destructive initiative, that will immediately require the creation of an equivalent agency, is transparently self-defeating.
I suspect the origin of this concept can be found in the increasingly desperate need to distract attention away from the illegal employers of the undocumented.
The sanctuary employers, who have enriched themselves by evading the requirements established by the Immigration Reform Act of 1986, are the real criminals in this story. Proof can be found in the bipartisan campaign that has kept this problem below the public's radar since 1988. At that point, interests in the agricultural & construction sectors of the economy seem to have convinced both parties in Congress that the Reform Act would be far too complicated and expensive to enforce. Apparently, everyone agreed to keep it quiet. The million dollar fines that constituted the ultimate punishment for those hiring undocumented workers were soon forgotten.
The dishonest explanation, that Americans were not willing to do those jobs, simply reflected employers unwillingness to pay wages set by the marketplace. Thus, a whole generation of entrepreneurs learned to under-bid competitors who obeyed employment law.
10
"You get rid of ICE, you’re going to have a country that you’re going to be afraid to walk out of your house,” Mr. Trump said, while reminding everyone that "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters."
Yes. We know.
1
Rather than end ICE, just mend it so it behaves as Mended ICE or MICE, instead of the Dragon it has become lately. There has to be a humane way to solve migration challenges.
5
It almost seams like the Democratic leadership doesn't want to take the house or Senate. Maybe their donors like the tax cuts and free corporate gift just as much as the Republican donors. I wouldn't put it past them.
12
How many people should we let in the country? And what qualifications should they have to be admitted?
These are the basic questions that we must answer but yet refuse to discuss in a rational way. Everything else is basically a distraction.
All we hear are extremists who want either to (a) eliminate all immigration or (b) let anyone in who wants in. Neither is realistic, so it probably doesn't matter that they both would be disastrous for America and Americans.
Let someone speak up for anything in between, and they are condemned from both sides as let-'em-in lunatics or vile racists or both.
It's disgraceful, and it's the fault of both left and right, that we can't have a civil, rational discussion and resolution to this critical matter.
20
Extremely well expressed! I truly believe that, for most issues, a centrist position of equilibrium is the only solution for the long term. I wish we could all have a discussion that leads more toward this.
7
The Democrats should have stuck to blaming Trump for the policies that ICE is implementing. But ICE is the face that people see so that is who they blame and the Democrats reflect what their constituents perceive instead of shifting the focus to Trump’s policies and so condemn ICE. It gives Trump the chance to stand up for law and order by defending ICE. What a comedy of errors.
9
"Could someone please muzzle Kristen Gillibrand so that she doesn't do any more harm to the Democratic party than she already has?"
Kristen Gillibrand has a comfortable lead in her own race. But if I were one of her Democratic friends running for re-election in a close race, I'd hope Ms. Gillibrand chooses not to say more.
13
She will do anything, say anything, sacrifice anyone to get what she wants. If she ever wants to advance in public office she’s going to have to come up with some kind of total change of image.
8
You dems have lost your way, you are letting a left wing element to hijack your party.
10
ICE has been a disaster. We're going to abolish ICE and replace it with something terrific. Trust me.
1
If what he says is true then he's stupid for bringing it up, meaning of course, it's not true. Wow, who woulda thunk Trump would deliberately lie about something. But Trump absolutely has to save I.C.E. and keep it from being abolished because it is his personal Gestapo and he needs it to help with his authoritarian takeover of the country.
2
Waiting for Dems to say something like this:
“Our President wants to make immigration the only topic we debate. He wants you to believe Democrats are soft on crime including illegal immigration, and that is a threat to your livelihood and lives.
But like so much of what he says, this is a lie. Of course Democrats want effective border controls - but we don’t want children taken from parents, put in cages, sent to camps or literally lost in the system. We want immigration laws to be enforced, and that includes the law that says refugees claiming asylum have a right to judicial review. So we agree with Texas GOP Senator Cruz adding more immigration judges is a good idea, because a better process helps everyone. We have consistently supported bipartisan immigration legislation, including a path for dreamers.
The cry to abolish ICE, which some advocate - including ICE agents who say they were hired to focus on terrorism not undocumented low wage workers - is wrongly translated as opposing law enforcement. That’s not true. The question is what agency is best for immigration law enforcement away from the borders (where border agents operate), and what methods will be used. We don’t condone Gestapo-like terror tactics by any law enforcement including ICE.
Immigration is at its lowest levels in decades. The vast majority of immigrants at our southern border are fleeing horrific violence.
Now let’s look at what the President doesn’t want you to pay attention to...”
4
We’re standing by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and if that means America decides to elect fascists what are you going to do? Don’t compromise your beliefs. That would make you a Republican.
1
Trump isn't right about much, but he's right about this. The game of 'who can be more extreme and get away with it' will always be won by the Republicans, because as we see they have most of the political power (as opposed to social power), and thats the way it's been for a long time. If we want to change that we need to focus on the most important problems that confront everyone daily, and get away from trying to make the world safe and comfy for every marginalized group first. Lets remember we lost the last election to the most un-electable person in American history and it was because we made big mistakes (all the Russian meddling in the world wouldn't have helped if we hadn't) and we have to accept that and re-focus on the big picture before its too late.
9
For god sake ... We are dealing with a crisis of democracy. Civlility and kindness is nonexistent in this White House. Why are there so much handwringing coming from the democratic establishment calling out immigration activists , who are hard at work and making their voices heard at ICE detention centers, and congresswoman Maxim Waters for taking a tougher stance on immigration .. if Senator Schumer truly cares about reforming immigration , he should stop kicking the can down the road and instead stand firm with this new and appealing brand of progressive change making inroads to build a strong foundation where future innovators will rise to become community leaders at the local federal level. There has been no shortage of ICE agents, last time I checked. But the separation of families, with children being torn apart from their mothers’ arms is a constant reality .. We have not seen any moral revulsion on the republican side.. it is frightening that we have to play tape recorders at White House briefings to let the American public know that children are suffering at the hands of this administration’s zero tolarence immigration policy. Moreover, there is nothing civil in equating journalists and reporters to the enemy of the people. Fact checking is an important tool now under attack
2
“You get rid of ICE, you’re going to have a country that you’re going to be afraid to walk out of your house,” Mr. Trump said.
OH, WELL, IF HE SAID SO . . . .
4
Why do progressives (we) even need to say "abolish ICE"? First, that is not going to happen under the current administration so it is kind of a waste of breath and a waste of time. Second, don't we really mean "stop separating families" "Let DACA kids stay" and "reform immigration laws"? We are not saying (yet and I hope never) "abolish police" but we are saying "stop profiling people of color" "stop shooting and killing people" "start community policing." Third, ICE are not brownshirts and even if they were, wait until we re-gain power to abolish the agency. Who even started this nonsense?
9
Anyone who protects America or loves America is hated by the extreme leftists here in the US. Folks, ICE also watches and regulates customs and watches for illegally obtained ivory and exotic animals, they hunt down MS-13 and put their own lives on the line every day yet they are despised by the extreme leftists in the media, academia and Hollywood.
13
Between Maxine Waters advocating badgering people and now calls for the elimination of ICE, Trump is having a great summer. This is the kind of stuff that drove Midwest Democrats into his arms during the Presidential election.
13
Putting toddlers in cages is not a "winning" look for Trump any more than the "I really don't care" wear of the First Lady.
2
While my loathing for Trump is boundless, in this case he is right. He is a master of manipulation and he knows that this will reinforce his goal of pinning the notion of "open borders" on the Democrats, even though no Democrat is suggesting we have no restrictions or limits on people coming into this country, that we treat it like Germans going to France, etc.
This is like the impeachment crowd. While Trump shouldn't be allowed to do anything, other than the proverbial making of license plates while incarcerated, anything that makes him look like a victim to people who voted for him or were tempted to helps increase his popularity. Even if what he says is, as usual, a gross distortion.
Think Strategy, not emotional catharsis.
8
No border wall
No ICE no federal police tracking down criminals
Sanctuary Cities no local police tracking Down criminals
No immigration legislation - stopped Trump DACA fix for millions of people
No liberal protest of Obama’s children in cages- in fact he built the cages.
No victory in November
11
What Democrats must whine about is to get rid of the current director and later Trump in 2020.
1
If ICE is abolished let’s see the immigrants and refugees settled in the cities of the super-rich, like Atherton and Menlo Park, Calif; Westchester County New York, and the other exclusive enclaves of the open borders' liberals and cheap labor Republican capitalists — rather than the poor and working class areas where the undocumented are now sent.
The “not in my backyard” Leftist hypocrisy ought to end. Your heart aches for the huddled masses of planet earth? Invite a dozen or more to live in your personal home for 6 months or a year. Don’t expect to live in a mostly white gated community while the lumpen proletariat are made to suffer the consequences of your asinine folly.
14
Michael Hoffman, I'd love to see some immigrants in trump tower. But I am willing to bet that most of the people who live there are uber wealthy rEPUBLICANS...
2
Sometimes I wonder if the Democrats are smart enough to win. Mostly they seem more interested in looking virtuous than in actually accomplishing something good. There's no reason to blame the soldiers because the general is a vicious idiot.
10
This is profoundly the wrong time for Democrats to be talking about abolishing ICE. And while Trump’s immigration policies are indeed cruel and counterproductive, making the upcoming midterm elections all about immigration is a losing strategy for Democrats. Democrats need to loudly and consistently talk about things like healthcare, jobs, wages, environment, justice and women’s rights, both by criticizing the current Republican paths and by offering tangible solutions. Stop talking about Trump, which has the perverse effects of giving him more attention and letting him control the dialog. Focus on practical, straightforward messages, and above all, Get Out The Vote.
5
Is there a “right time” for Democrats to be talking about abolishing ICE?
4
Who said it's all about ICE ?
Much of it is about the Kool-Aid !
I don't see any evidence that it's the bureaucracy that's the problem and not the leadership. Nobody suggested that ICE was beyond redemption when we had a decent and competent president, and nobody suggests that we'll get a different results by shuffling the organization chart below Trump.
I know that some think we can limit the damage Trump does by taking away his work force and leave him signing executive orders to nobody....not incorrectly in all cases, since his inability to fill positions might be the saving of this country....but I don't think it's the case here.
2
While some support ICE's mission, from afar, I doubt they would if ICE raided their business, and hauled off their employees, after demanding "Show Me Your Papers!"
ICE seems unable to understand the difference between residents that are legal citizens but can't immediately produce their "Papers," and residents that don't have any documentation, so they're routinely throwing US citizens in ICE-jail, which is Unconstitutional.
Of course if you're white, you won't have worry about that.
It's only the entire non-white population of the United States that's at risk of encountering ICE and landing in jail, citizen or not.
2
Trump couldn't be more right on this issue. Trump was elected, in no small part, on his promise to get tough on illegal immigration. The call to abolish ICE (with absolutely no coherent alternative) plays right into Trump's open border narrative about the left and will come back to haunt the liberals. Say what you will about The Donald (and there is quite a bit...), he has killer political instincts and will use stupid mis-steps like this as a sledgehammer against the Democrats.
Through in using Maxine Waters "as the face of the Democratic Party" and you have the jet-fuel to get Republicans to the polls in November.
I do not know what Sen Gillibrand is thinking. If she wants to nurture ANY national appeal in advance of a 2020 presidential run, she would put light years between this abolish ICE movement and herself. Here we are, though, with the Republicans promoting the narrative that the mainstream Democratic positions are aligning with the far-left radical views.
This seems a losing proposition for the Democrats.
16
The Left can try and put as much lipstick on this pig as they want to. Anyone with half a brain understands that "abolish ICE" simply means "stop enforcing our immigration laws". God forbid you compromise and work with the GOP to change them.
9
I want another option: God forbid the damnable gop should compromise and work with the Dems. The gop doesn't want to change anything; they want to CONTROL EVERYTHING...and in the process do anything they can to harm women, children, the elderly, the chronically ill, the disabled, the poor, and immigrants, if the immigrants are the wrong color. No normal Democrat wants immigration laws to be abolished; but they WOULD like to see immigration laws enforced in a humane manner. trump and his minions want immigration laws enforced like the gestapo enforced Nazi law. Very, very sick, despotic, racist, authoritarian, sadistic people, with no critical thinking skills.
2
We tried that it didn't work. The last immigration bill to go before Trump was vetoed and had bipartisan support (just barely). You can't lay this blame all at the Democrat's door. The Repubs and their commander in chief are not, I repeat, are not, into compromise of any kind and have been getting "their way" since Trump took office. Americans have voted people into office who have no intention of compromise.
1
this is just more republican lies and disinformation! burn the republicans in November!!! think critically and Vote!!
2
Yup, let's get rid of ICE Democrats, keep pushing hard, make it you number one platform and don't let up.......take the moral high ground!
D. Trump-
9
ICE needs to be abolished because the immoral culture has set in within their region directors and among the rank and file. This culture will linger well beyond the Pretend King Trump's reign. This is how the SS in Hitler's regime began, at first stomping out anti-Nazi agitators and finally arresting Jews, separating children who can work to those who cannot and ultimately committing murder. All those who complied were ultimately hunted down and brought to justice in one form or another. This type of escalating immorality in an organization is a classic case of manipulation by immoral leaders. ICE has become this kind of organization. Soon if we allow the Pretend King Trump to house illegals on military bases he will cause our military to become immoral organization. We will take a long time to repair the damage from these horrific actions. Our country will come back from this since the majority understand dehumanizing people leads to harming people. In the end, ICE must go since they have implemented the SS Gestapo tactics by being able to act on any immoral feelings they feel with authoritative permission. But remember, "I was following orders" is not a defense.
2
ICE operates like Hitler's SS. The federal government now runs detention centers and prisons for children.
What's next, America? Rather, what is the next thing you are willing to tolerate? Clearly, the GOP and many Democrats have a high tolerance for trump's authoritarian shenanigans.
If Democrats are afraid to stand up to trump's endless cruelties but call Maxine Waters un-American, well then, we truly are lost.
2
Anyone who believes ICE's operation is analogous to that of the SS's obviously doesn't have a clue as to how the SS operated. If you want to be critical of ICE, at least make a rational argument that is in the proper historical context.
10
Lol, the endless liberal playbook of comparing everything and everyone to Hitler and the holocaust , frankly disgusting
8
He's right. The loudest 5% of Progressives are cheerleading for the abolition of ICE as a jab against something they can't quite identify. The working class, on the other hand, is really tired of paying for illegal immigrants, and really doesn't want to lose their job to an illegal who will work for less than a living wage. The Republicans are going to trash us in the midterms, and we deserve it.
12
The illegal immigrants are working for "less than a living wage" because that is what the employers are paying! US citizens will not work for those wages, and the employers are not willing to raise those wages. I think that if someone really needs a job, they will take whatever job that they can get. It beats starvation.
He's right. Democrats and "Never Trump" Republicans complain that Trump doesn't play by the rules. Trump isn't even playing the same game! He is the Reality TV President. Every statement he makes or action he takes produces a massive backlash from the press, the political establishment and the Democrats. It is a positive feedback loop (Positive feedback loops enhance or amplify changes; this tends to move a system away from its equilibrium state and make it more unstable). This is exactly the the result he is seeking and the "loyal opposition" is playing right into his hands.
2
Before ICE there was the INS, which was abolished in order to establish ICE. What will come after ICE?
The car manufacturers that instituted a supply-chain network within NAFTA countries are faced with a version of Prisoner's Dilemma. Let's call it Trump's Dilemma. President Trump proposes that U.S. automakers and other EU/SE Asia carmakers to tranfer carmaking from Canada and Mexico, using tariffs as the stick.
The challenge for automakers in the NAFTA region is that, not only are cars exported and imported to reduce over-all cost to customers, many of those customers are Canadians and Mexicans.
The C-suite of U.S. automakers - GM announced that vehicles would cost $2.2k more (average) if tariffs were placed on U.S. automaker's imports from within NAFTA countries. What is a clear from GM's statement likely also applies to FORD and foreign automakers with a significant business presence in NAFTA countries.
It is illusory that President Trump's anti-Canadian and anti-Mexico supply-chain that was honed over 25 years of NAFTA will play well with C-level management and automobile customers in Canada and Mexico.
The management and Board of U.S. automakers have done their homework (see- Harbour Report) and know that reversing NAFTA would add costs to building cars. All automakers are politically agnostic but competitive champions when it comes to lowering the assbly costs of finished cars - no matter where they are built.
"Ron Harbour puts it plainly: Those plants that aren't competitive are going to die."
https://www.adandp.media/articles/assembly-plants-how-they-compare
1
And Trump is correct: Democrats will lose this round if they continue advocating for immigrants more strongly than they advocate for Americans.
We, Americans, are so busy fighting with one another over our differences we don’t notice that the .1 of the 1% is picking our pockets.
Democrats are not addressing economics— the one thing we share in common.
The Republican Tax Cut; dismantling of the ACA; Deregulation of environmental and banking industries; dismantling of our public schools; changes in trade relationships that will negatively affect pockets of American workers around the country.
This weekend, we saw a massive demonstrations all over the country demanding unification of migrant children with their families. While that is to be commended on moral grounds (I am pro-immigration, and want these children reunited with their families), why have we not seen massive demonstrations about economics— something that affects each one personally of us in our pocketbooks. I submit to you that it is because both political parties—the Republicans and Democratic parties are in the pockets of those big businesses that are the beneficiaries of
what is going on right now.
3
Republicans are forever calling for cutting back or abolishing federal programs that actually benefit people. It's practically their calling card. Yet one Democrat calls to abolish ICE and Democrats are coming out of the woodwork to echo Trump, of all people. This tells us everything we need to know about how little the Democratic party has learned since 2016, and about how little it has to offer Americans--at least in its current comportment. We are the party that continuously hedges toward the middle, even as the right continues year after year to push the middle further rightward. Nothing is going to change like this.
ICE itself has only actually been around for 15 or so years, it was ushered in under the dubious auspices of the department of Homeland Security, and it is by all measures only doing one thing right now, and that's brutalizing immigrants. That's it. And yet there appears to be no room in American political discourse for such nuance right now. Centrist democrats aren't interested in change. They're interested in seeing if somehow they can grab some power without actually changing anything at all.
2
IceIce troopers have been terrorizing people of color for the year and a half Tsar Donald has been in power.
Jefferson Beauregard has used them to scoop up brown folks, regardless of status.
At hospitals, at court houses, at schools.
Until the inhumane treatment of the children of asylum seekers,
IceIce Troopers have been the shame of patriotic Americans,
and the spear point of the Trump/Pence march to Gilead Authoritarianism.
In our names.
Those who fault ICE for during its job appear to agree with newly elected Mexican Andrés Manuel López Obrador, who has pledged to defend the “right” of migrants around the world to abandon their towns and move to ther United States. During his presidential campaign, López Obrador said, "Soon, very soon, after the victory of our movement, we will defend migrants all over the American continent and the migrants of the world who, by necessity, must abandon their towns to find life in the United States; it’s a human right we will defend." Instead of demonizing ICE agents for enforcing U.S. immigration laws, ICE critics should have the integrity to openly embrace the “Open Border Advocate” label and call for the abolishment of U.S. immigration laws.
5
As I see it the problem is the rabid dog that directs ICE to treat people in an abominable fashion. All people are human beings and should be treated decently and with respect by our great country. By the way we were a greater country before the rabid dog took over.
1
“You get rid of ICE, you’re going to have a country that you’re going to be afraid to walk out of your house,” Trump said.
I'm already afraid to walk out of my house, but it has nothing to do with immigration. It has everything to do with the sentiment being applauded by statements by Trump and his supporters on numerous issues.
1
Trump claims everything will help Republicans. He simply doubles down on anything Dems do as "wrong" and then claims it hurts them. The only thing that counts is voting in the midterms and in 2020.
1
I am dismayed by the tenor of most of the comments on this article. It seems that xenophobia has infected people far more widely than the deplorable Trump base.
This country needs immigration both legal and otherwise in order to prosper. I challenge anyone with a loved one in a long-term care facility being looked after by a Filipino care-giver to say that they would better off if low-skilled workers could not reach our shores. I seriously doubt that they and many others who benefit from being able to get workers at affordable prices are going to challenge those vital workers regarding their legal status.
Who is going to pay into Social Security to support our aging population if we don't allow massive immigration? What ever happened to:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Who is going to buy American made products if the rest of thw world is impoverished?
Wake up America the world needs places of refuge and we neither can nor should lock our doors.
Within 15 years all lower level jobs will be automated , we DONT need unskilled labor . What we do need is highly educated specific people for very technical jobs
5
It's time for the American people to file for divorce from Donald Trump, citing "irreconcilable differences", and his ongoing extra-marital affair with Vladimir Putin as justification.
3
Your president paints a menacing, grim picture of your country. If I did not know better and took his words seriously, I would never, ever consider visiting the US. He says if ICE were abolished, people would be afraid to leave their houses. Yes, this promotes a vision of marauding immigrants running through the streets, terrorizing your entire country, and you, the American people, cowering behind locked doors if not for the protection of ICE.
I'll tell you what IS terrifying, it's knowing Trump's base is lapping up this fear-mongering, allowing them to take more extreme measures to protect themselves from any and all interlopers.
This kind of talk from him depicts the US as a dangerous country. Trump may use fear to keep his base fired up and on high alert, but what about how you look to the world these days? Instilling fear is not selective and your reputation is on the line as your president paints a very unflattering picture of your country.
2
Sometimes when an opponent is coming at you to strike you, better to use his own force against him by grabbing his wrist than trying to strike back.
I would rather the Dems not run on immigration but I have a feeling we will have to have a response as Trump will make sure to run on it.
So here's my version of grabbing him by the wrist:
1. Mandating eVerify or a national ID card (many many countries have this including some more Socialist European countries that many liberals are so envious of including msyelf).
2. More legal pathways crafted for those industries needing more low-skilled labor -- based on the actual need and term limits. These industries would also have to pay for healthcare and WC for their employees.
3. Foreign aid for countries sending asylum seekers but administered by Americans for the benefit of those who need it the most in those countries. Also some sort of CAFTA?
4. Absolutely granting DACA kids with a path to citizenship but more limitations in the ability to sponsor additional family members upon citizenship.
Instead of tripping over each other to the left until there's no where left to go, Dems should nullify Trump by moving to the right of him with eVerify and/or national IDs. This while showing compassion to those here and by addressing the root of the problems in the sending countries.
2
Uh...I've been afraid to step out of my house ever since Snowden leaked that the government is spying on us every moment of the day.
How odd.
I thought trump was the president.
I could have sworn that the Republicans control the House, the Senate, the White House AND the Supreme Court.
When did the Dems get in control of it all....????
3
Well so far we still have a democracy - good grief. Having different opinions is OK unless you live under Putin.
2
Trump is right here, even though he is wrong on all the big issues from climate change to world peace.
Why not abolish all police forces? That would solve the perceived discrimination of minorities by police overnight.
3
I don't know what ICE does but most Americans are law abiding and they will not be happy with what the Democrats are calling for unless the Dems have something to replace ICE with.
3
Mr. Trump sure is afraid of a lot of things. He shouldn't have opted out of the military so many times- they learn to control their fear. He is afraid "to walk out of his house".
Building his fake arguments about "open borders" and his demonizing people means nothing. What is radical is separating a little kids from their parents.
Everyone knows who the radical is, who the liar is, and who is going to get put out to pasture after the next election. I'm sure he has a lot of mirrors to figure it out.
1
Gillibrand- The Republican party's best friend!
10
Again the Democrats are acting stupid. ICE is carrying out our nation's mission. If you want changes you need to change the immigration laws. The men and women working for ICE are doing their job as well as they can under changing political mandates. I am a live long democrat and a former Peace Corps volunteer in El Salvador but quite frankly what I really care about is the 3 grandchildren I am raising by myself with no help from the government. I worry about their future and the jobs they might or might not have and all I hear is DACA DACA DACA from the democrats. You are not getting my vote this time around since you are so high and mighty you can't see the USA citizens who are struggling. Let the dreamers vote for you and see how far you get.
7
The only people that are against getting rid of ICE or redefining it's mission are the people Trump has not turned them loose on yet.
With Trump and these republicans criminals, it is just a matter of time.
We do not need people with a "brown shirt" mentality armed with guns running around in the United States.
ICE like the republican organization has lost their way.
Time to take them both back to the drawing board.
Trump is correct. Reforms would be fine but abolishing ICE sounds like no immigration nor customs enforcement which will never be supported by the majority. Pandering to the frustration with laws by eliminating any laws is silly.
5
Remember, if I say I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, that is not me saying I hate cheese sandwiches.
Stop supporting fallacies spit out by the administration.
Being against ICE is not being pro-open border. The more you reprint that, even if the president said it, the more credence you give it. Stop reprinting fallacious arguments as if they are legitimate. Please...
I know you're just trying to say "here, look at this fallacy..." but to half the reading audience, they don't understand that simply printing it is supposed to be critical. They just think "well, if the paper felt the need to reprint it, maybe it's worth debating..."
2
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the largest investigative agency in the Department of Homeland Security, is responsible for enforcing the nation's immigration and customs laws. ICE has more than 20,000 [FY2018 ~ 21k] employees working in more than 400 offices in the U.S. and around the world. All current ICE job vacancies are posted on OPM's USA Jobs website. Available positions change weekly as vacancies are filled and new jobs are added." https://www.ice.gov/careers/occupations
The 2018 President's budget for ICE is $3.6 Billion or ~ 20% higher than Obama's 2016 budget:
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ICE%20FY18%20Budget...
It looks like the U.S. is starting to resemble a Police State that worries more about poor people crossing the border to look for lower than minimum wage jobs that Americans will not do.
Here's an idea. Insteadof spending $3.6 B chaing families around and taking their children as bargaining chips - subject to constitutional rights case, why not have these migrants line-up for "work visas" and have them report to the local district federal office to confirm employment or arrange return to their country of origin "with rights to reapply for a work visa". If they do not comply with terms of work visa, they are placed on a list of illegals subject to deportation hearing and not permitted to enter the U.S. under the work visa program.
As long as migrants enter the U.S. "legally" they can stay and work in the U.S.
A "police state" ? Clearly you have no idea of what that phrase actually means historically and entails when in effect. My interest in voting conservative/republican grows stronger each day I read the NYT comments sections.
6
It's great that we have a 6 year old president that's afraid to walk out of his house because the big bad immigrant monster will get him.
What about the adults in the country Donnie boy we're not afraid despite the mumbling's that come out of your mouth.
ICE came around after 9/11 and we probably didn't need them then but George W. wanted a dedicated law enforcement group to look into immigrants in the country.
The biggest joke about this is that even if ICE had existed before 9/11 it still would have happened.
What we truly need is a new president.
1
Every time Trump tweets about Dems wanting to abolish ICE he goes on to spew the same old lies that he always attaches to any immigration issue. The fact is that we are now talking about the legitimacy of ICE as his deportation goon squad. ICE needs to be broken up so that real work can be done without workers quitting rather than be associated with the Gestapo tactics Sessions and Trump prefer. Then a Democratic congress can bring real oversight to the agencies responsible for implementing a sane immigration policy. All this nonsense about Democrats wanting open borders is ridiculous and just illustrates the venality of the Lyin' King and his cronies.
The Democrats are incompetent and weak. Until progressives take over, do not follow the suggestions of the old guard Democrats. They are losers, and I'm a lifetime Democrat.
1
Republicans have been saying the most hateful and ignorant things for years. They have made me a Democrat for life.
Isn't this administration & the Republicans in support of smaller government? They are abolishing other government agencies and offices at an unprecedented rate based on this reasoning. Keeping an agency that is marginally effective at best, yet costs taxpayers huge sums and had demonstrably increased bureaucratic gridlock seems completely at odds with the Trump/GOP ideology. Wonder why.
2
When did anything Trump say become valid? Everything is a lie. Please stop reporting what he says and start reporting his lies.
3
'“I believe you should get rid of it, start over, reimagine it and build something that actually works,” Ms. Gillibrand said on CNN.'
Sounds totally irresponsible, even childish, to me. Maybe Kirsten should bother to define this "something" before talking about dismantling a government agency that does important work.
10
My last post should read One person not on person!
The treatment of families by ICE is abominable. That said, Democrats are becoming the Crazy Party with silly ideas like this. Trump must be licking his chops with these easy policy wins.
15
Any Democrat who chooses to tilt at this particular windmill is an idiot and playing right into Trump's hands. There must be common-sense yet compassionate enforcement of our immigration laws. If you get rid of ICE you can guarantee something much worse will replace it.
9
You can count me as an idiot. I have been waiting for a coherent and meaningful platform from democrats on the most pressing issues of our time and there is nothing forthcoming. They will lose the midterm elections due to their own lack of leadership and message that addresses the primary problems we face ranging from healthcare, climate change, jobs, etc. You can say how upset we are about the situation at the border but for the majority of the people it is day to day living and the future of our children that comes first.
2
This rallying cry is about as dumb as possible, and I read off to our household last night the Reader Picks, comment after comment envisioning the Democrats' uncanny ability to lose elections. Kirsten Gillebrand has a mind finely attuned to how to piss people off and turn off voters. Maybe that's a winning strategy in New York, but New York is a tiny speck in a big electorate, no what New Yorkers think.
Your article yesterday on the trek from El Salvador to Houston I'm sure in your newsroom read as oh the angst at the dangerous trek, the inhumanity of it all, or whatever. I'm far more pro-refugee by action than most of your readers, and your journalists, and I didn't see where Mr. Cruz (I hope that was a pseudonym) had a valid claim for asylum that would pass muster in any of the couple of dozen countries that accept 3rd country resettlements (a good measure of how refugee tolerant they are).
But if you are inclined to want stronger border control or "tough on crime" there were any number of things in that article that "prove Trump right." The family didn't pay for the trek from El Salvador, but from the U.S. They paid thousands of dollars to violent drug cartels. Mr. Cruz did not present himself for asylum or even articulate it.
An American family that paid that much money to support a similar armed group might very well find themselves in jail, charged with material support for terrorism.
Being tone deaf appears a prerequisite for New York progressives.
15
Wake up democrats- you are giving the election win to Trump on a silver platter. Read the political weather in the country. Local politics is very different than national politics. You need to be objective and pragmatic. The basic foundation of our great nation is at danger- the air we breathe, the water we drink, jobs and education we need. Trump is destroying everything to fill the pockets of his paymasters. One of the reason Trump won was that he manipulated the economic anxiety of the people. He is a master con man. Some of the democratic leaders are falling into the trap created by the con man. Sanctuary city, abolition of ICE are prime examples . You are doing the same as Trump as he throws red meat to manipulate his supporters. Alas, these democrat leaders are so self centered that they don’t reliaze how Trump propaganda would use them in the midterm election. How did the party become a stupid party? Do these self centered ego maniacs understand the imapct of 200 judicial life time appointment by Trump? These puppets will rubber stamp every criminal activity by Trump and the Republican machine. It is a shame that the party is squandering a golden opportunity to make America Nice Again.
3
I keep hearing that "Democrats can't just run on being against Trump." Then what possible sense does it make to run against ICE? Then again, this is the party that just lost the Supreme Court for 50 years & kicked Al Franken out of the Senate. Almost forgot.
10
Trump says Democratic calls for, "civility, equality, justice, fairness, and the truth", will help Republicans.
Well, of course they will! Trump doesn't sell those things. He sells racism, intolerance, injustice, hatred, violence and lies.
Those are the things that Trump's base feeds on.
2
More hysterical reporting from the press. The democratic _party_ is not calling for the abolishment of ICE. Some lefties are. Let people have their different positions. People who fall for Trump's lies are not going to climb on with the project of Making America Sane Again.
2
As others have said we can't take care of our own and we are expected to shoulder more? Offer viable solutions other than admitting more. Offer how we can manage them plus our own already. You can't, so don'r dig the hole deeper..
9
I'm telling you that the majority wants illegals out and gone. If Dems fail to play this down they will lose to Trump and in the midterms. Many people tell me that despite the separating of children from their parents which is terrible they brought it on themselves. It is the predominant mood in the country and you can't change it with demonstrations they say. They are Anti-illegal PERIOD!
11
I was at one of these protests, and I proudly carried an abolish ICE sign, along with thousands of others.
Establishment Democrats can try to sweep us under the rug, but we're not going away! And we're going to be out in force between now and the Midterms!
Trump may think we're bad for the party, but what does he know! He knows nothing! Without help from Russia and the electoral college, he wouldn't even be President and come 2020, we'll probably have someone like Alexendria Ocasio-Cortez as President!
So I say let's actually run on what we want; a world without borders, amnesty for those already here, and abolishing ICE!
"Establishment" means "founding" and/or "establishing" and so if you're not with the "establishment", why not found your own party? I am seriously asking this because I want to understand your logic. If you banded together with more people like you, then wouldn't your unified voices be clearer and louder? It's like when the members of a rock group split apart and the dissenting members start a new band. Happens all the time. Why not try it since it seems like you've outgrown "establishment" democrats.
Like the migrants who are going to move into this country and become Americans, and replace many of them, we’re doing the same thing.
It’s basically a hostile take over. Deal with it.
If it's so easy, why not take over the GOP instead?
Democrats who ignore the feral instincts voiced by Trump do so at the risk of our country. Trump-Pence-GOP is not the problem, it is the manifestation of decades of failed policies and false promises by both parties.
The only way to defeat this golem is by building rational sustainable alternatives and all being will to sacrifice for the common best. We are far from this vision.
1
I would agree with President Trump,...again. It is getting to the point where most centrists are willing to do anything to help stop the socialist radical lefties.
9
Given that Cohen can and likely will be pardoned by Trump, the idea that he's cooperating is ludicrous. If anything, he saying that to send a message to Trump to pardon him.
According to the NY Times and MSM, all the other people interrogated by Mueller — Manafort, Flynn, Papadopoulos, Don Jr., Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Hope Hicks, etc. — were all "cooperating" with Mueller and had all sorts of incriminating evidence to offer. Yet apparently, those cooperating witnesses never gave any information to Mueller that meant anything.
I have no reason to believe that Cohen does either.
And he is right. Crazy talk from the left will only serve to get him re-elected.
9
ICE is just falling orders after all. Where have I heard that one before?
2
I fail to see how an immigration re-org will help anything.
1
I wish that this article would have mentioned that at least 19 ICE investigators are calling for ICE to be abolished:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/ice-immigration-eliminate...
3
19 of 2000, not a good stat
2
There,
People who work for ICE know more about working there than any of us ( the article also said, "at least 19," not 19.)
The fact that anyone who works for ICE thinks it should be abolished is a wake-up call.
1
I for one, would like to know how this notion of "abolish ICE" got so much traction so fast. Trump is like a heat seeking missile zeroing in on simple messages, however imperfect that will serve his narrative that Democrats are for open borders and soft on crime. How about stealing his march on this for a change? Ice The Real Criminals.
1
You know that, and I know that, but most voters don't:
"Abolishing an agency does not mean abolishing its mission."
Correctly or not, most voters think somebody carrying an "Abolish ICE!" sign is advocating "open borders."
In most cases, that's not true, which presumably is your point. But, again, most voters don't draw this distinction, and, frankly, even those of us who DO are wary of those sign-carriers who DO advocate for "open borders." As several comments here make clear, that's exactly what some people mean by "Abolish ICE!"
4
1. Trump is right. Calls for abolishing ICE will help Republicans in the Fall.
2. Democrats need to articulate what they want for immigration reform in a single sentence or phrase that can’t be interpreted as “open borders.” How, in practical terms, would Democrats fix the illegal immigration from Mexico problem?
Trump is absolutely right, if the Democrats keep this up they will be soundly beaten in November. Focus on things that actually matter the average American, did they learn nothing from the last election?
6
Yes, Trump's whole appeal is based on perceived fears. his supporters live in fear of almost all things around them. He feeds these fears and vows to protect them. His police state mentality gives them a sense of hope and safety. Democracy, rights etc. are not important its keeping those "others" in place that they want. ICE is an example of the armed, vested, types who are seen as their safety nets. They are Trumps "strong men".
If there's any issue in need of a unified front it's immigration reform. It's the reason the election outcome happened as it did in 2016.
A path to citizenship and reuniting families at the border is a non-negotiable. Border security needs to be as well. These two need not, and should not, be mutually exclusive.
Democrats and Republicans must come together on the issue of immigration reform and be willing to compromise - no one side will get everything they want, and shouldn't. America was founded on the idea of forming a more perfect union - this means debate and compromise.
You cannot ignore optics. There are 41 million Americans currently food-insecure, people living below poverty level. This is just one of the many social and economic challenges Americans must face head on and problem solve for. Many cannot find stable employment against the backdrop of the 4th industrial revolution despite the low unemployment #'s being touted. This cuts across all ethnicities.
If Democrats are positioning themselves as fighting for the undocumented, they must equally show concern for those who can't find their next meal or next job (among current citizens, those not undocumented)
If Democrats are not for open borders, as Republicans like to say, then what does that mean? The strategy for articulating what that means must be designed and delivered now, in a uniform way, before November 2018.
3
It would do nicely until someone asked what "reform" means:
"Trump is correct that 'abolish ice is a losing slogan for Democrats - 'immigration reform now' would do nicely."
Protesters carrying signs reading "Immigration reform now!" instead of "Abolish ICE now!" would be met with less skepticism from American voters, but the difference would be slight -- especially if voters ever were told that "reform" means "Abolish ICE now!"
4
This isn't what has happened, though:
"Separating children from parents now, particularly when they present themselves lawfully to seek asylum is simply wrong."
Nearly all Americans agree that families shouldn't be separated, and that practice appears to have ended, at least going forward, per Trump's executive order.
But let's not misstate what happened. None (as in "zero") of the asylum seekers we've been discussing (including those who brought their children with them) applied for asylum. Repeat: none. Instead, all of them snuck across the border (many with children), were caught, and then (and only then) asked for asylum.
There are two types of asylum applications: "affirmative" and "defensive." An "affirmative" application is filed by someone who's rightfully in the US (on a tourist visa or H1B visa, for example) or who shows up at a US border station and asks for asylum. A "defensive" application is different: It's filed by someone who's NOT here legally and who asks for asylum to avoid deportation.
None of the people we're discussing here is an "affirmative" applicant. True, many of their defenders say the US makes it too difficult for foreigners to apply for asylum and I believe legal immigration should be expanded, but the fact remains that none of the asylum applicants we're talking about here affirmatively applied for asylum. Instead, they applied for asylum only after they were arrested (many with children) on the US side of the border.
9
No, not abolish ICE, just rein in its excesses. Once a person has been cleared at the border, is it really necessary to stop their car or the bus they are on 50 miles down the road?
This winter Florida's tourism industry will learn how many Canadians opt to go to Cuba instead because they will be treated better by that government.
What do you do when you have a greedy political party in charge with a volatile president? I would really like to know because neither one of these institutions could care less about the rights that are built into the Constitution. Trump and his base have the GOP and our country by the throat. ICE is just the tip.
He is 100% right.
When the Ninth Circuit told President Obama he could NOT hold children after 20 days together with their parents who were in custody, his capitulation was to release them all -- it has been aptly coined "catch and release."
The Courts have decided to engage in legislation. That is wrong, understandable given the void in Congress, but wrong.
There are very few Republicans or Democrats who say open, unrestricted borders are okay. The American people are acutely aware of this issue. You can count on it. They will vote on it.
7
"I welcome the ranks of Harley- Davidson owners to the growing ranks of those who are very unhappy they voted for Trump."
Undoubtedly, many people who voted for Trump now wish they had not. But the opposite also is true: Many people who did NOT vote for Trump (I didn't, for example) would vote for him now (or at least would if forced to choose (we're not).
I've long thought, and still think, Trump is a carrot-top buffoon, not of "Presidential timber." But if one looks only at the policies a President is pressing, not his personal bearing or demeanor, Trump looks much better. He's doing, or at least trying to do. what he promised to do during the campaign -- so much so, in fact, that several dissenting Supreme Court Justices in the "travel ban" case said it was fair to "overlay" Trump's facially non-discriminatory third Executive Order with his anti-Muslim campaign speeches. (Can you imagine how Obama would have fared, for example, if someone had said his "I'll close Guantamo, first thing!" promise should have been taken seriously after he took office?)
5
Terrible messaging. How about 'Reform ICE'? How about 'Sane and Humane borders'? How about if you're advocating for abolishing ICE, also having an alternative to ICE you can explain in two words or less?
4
The president is right. Unless and until someone does the hard work to build an efficient and humane immigration system, it is what it is. The president was already doing nothing to make things better and now he'll do less than nothing.
1
The President should defend the actions of ICE - like separating asylum seeking children from parents at the border without a plan to reunite families.
Show what the policy looks and sounds like to the country and the world.
Shows raids on peaceful workers, tearing apart generations from the American born children.
This 16 year old incompetent organization is blindly following the orders of Trump, regardless if it conflicts with the US Constitution or other laws.
This nation can have a competent immigration service like every other country on Earth, including our own before Trump charged ICE with crimes against humanity.
But hey, they were just following orders, right? Sounds familiar....
1
The immigration issue is going to sink the Democrats, yet again. Americans do not want open borders. Immigration is out of control as is the "refugee crisis." We need to enforce our laws or change them. This is getting so old. Why can't our leadership in Washington do their job?
8
Trump is correct - as much as I despise him. Pelosi, Waters, Sanders, and other Dems have learned nothing from Clinton's loss and the past few years of Trump's "winning." We can see the far right and left in politics, but where is the CENTER? If they can't talk economy, trade, American influence - then they are toast. Trump's action on tariffs, NAFTA, treaties with Europe, Korea, Japan, etc all give them a starting point to fight Trumps desire for isolation and dictator worship. Current Democratic leaders need to get smart, get gone, or the US will just see more "winning" in November.
3
Current Dem leadership is so beholden to monied interests they can't put their pants on in the morning without considering whether their donors would support that or not. The Republicans are shameless in doing what their donors want, so they don't even have to think about telling lies with a straight face.
One can argue that, since the Democratic Party seems to have shot itself in the foot here, Trump should just stand back and let the DP bleed to death:
"I agree with Trump, but don't know why he is attacking them. There is an old principle of warfare that, very roughly, says that when your opponents are busy destroying themselves, the best course is to stay silent and get out of the way."
Trump knows, though, that he must first "frame" the issue the way he likes. Then and only then may he safely step back.
Here, the best "frame" for Trump is to equate "Abolish ICE!"
with calls for open borders. Though a few progressives mean exactly that when they say "Abolish ICE!," most don't. They really are demanding "Reform ICE!" (which may also be renamed), not advocating open borders.
Fairly or not, having "framed" the issue as he wants it framed, Trump can now safely step back and let the DP bleed to death.
3
Maybe the NY Times should publish an article about the number of people the current immigration law allows yearly to immigrate into the U.S. from different countries. My understanding is that the limits are higher for European countries than for South American and African Countries. If true, the law itself is in part responsible for those who try to get in illegally because it is the only way.
Focusing only on the "illegals" and not on the immigration law itself needs to stop.
1
Not sure "abolishing" ICE would change it all that much:
"At best, the abolishment would be changing the name to something softer and gentler."
The renamed agency might even fire all existing ICE agents and vow to hire "softer and gentler" replacements. But word would soon get out that ICE was hiring "softer and gentler" people, and job applicants would do their best to appear "soft and gentle" during interviews and in choosing what to emphasize in their resumes. Nevertheless, it would be largely the same people applying for those "New ICE" jobs, and most of them would not be very "soft and gentle" once they got hired.
Nor, frankly, do most Americans WANT "softer and gentler" border enforcers. Many want (I do) more legal immigration, and so they'd probably be happy with immigration and asylum applications being processed by people who don't have butch haircuts. But most of us DO want the "butch haircut" guys rounding up illegal immigrants who've snuck across the border, are caught, and then (and only then) ask for asylum.
ICE should stick with its mission of pursuing the "bad hombres" and leave the sorting out of refugees and illegal aliens (economic refugees) to a much strengthened border judicial system. We could throw money at this and get more judges to adjudicate more cases faster. Thumbs up or thumbs down on refugee status, release or deportation within 20 days.
People who think ICE should be abolished for doing its job actually agree with newly elected Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador, who has pledged to defend the “right” of migrants around the world to abandon their towns and move to ther United States. During his campaign, López Obrador said, "Soon, very soon, after the victory of our movement, we will defend migrants all over the American continent and the migrants of the world who, by necessity, must abandon their towns to find life in the United States; it’s a human right we will defend."
Rather than demonizing those who enforce U.S. immigration laws, those calling for ICE to be abolished should have to integrity to accept the “open border advocate” label and call for the abolishment of U.S. immigration laws.
3
Once again liberals getting the narrative changed by the Republicans to make them look weak. WHERE IS DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP? They should be talking to all these Congressmen and woman.
If Pelosi and Schumer the rest of the power hungry 75 ers need to step down NOW!
2
Maybe I am missing something but what part of making America great again is trump going to tie this to? On person who has won a chance to run for office thinks ICE an agency for the Department of Homeland Security should be rebuilt. This is an administration that would like to rebuild several government departments not agencies. Now trump has also stated that next the Democratic would get rid of police departments which is not what has been said. What needs to be ask is how much of our tax dollars are spent on his weekend trips? Or why did his daughter and son in law make some much money since he has been in office while working in the White House? Follow the money! One last thing where are the jobs trump said he would bring back for overseas?
1
How many police forces does the USA need??? We have the FBI, the CIA, ATF, Homeland Security, ICE, National Guard, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Secret Service, and on and on. Duplicate services? Working at cross purposes? And yet, Trump wants to combine Education and Labor. Reagan wanted to delete Education. We see what Americans value.
2
Every organization modifies its behavior to fit with the leader.
If the President wants ICE to focus on drug-smugglers, criminal gangs, etc., as they did under Obama, they will.
If the President switches the focus to each and every undocumented immigrant, and wants to prosecute to the full extent of the law, they will.
Its a very poor decision for anyone to call for the dissolution of an important agency, because its being mis-directed and forced to dish-out 'unreasonably cruel' treatment to the least dangerous offenders.
C'mon Dems! Wake up... Stop playing into Trump's hand with this extreme message to abolish ICE.
The vast MAJORITY of America does NOT want to abolish ICE.
Focus on Middle Class America Voter issues, instead.
Call out Trump's unfair massive billions in Tax Cuts for the already filthy Rich while middle class barely see the extra $5 a week in their paycheck.
Remind voters they have Trump to thank for the huge increase in their Health coverage costs.
Let voters look forward to much higher priced consumer goods because of Trump's ignorant and devastating tariffs (while Trump and Ivanka's own personal products are still manufactured overseas and totally exempt from Trump's tariffs).
You can blame Trump for making our world less safe getting into bed with murdering dictators, Jong-Un and Putin, and destroying long time alliances with our most trust worthy allies.
You can call out Trump's incessant wild lies, his vile smear campaigns but don't stoop to his level with extreme rhetoric. No talk of abolishing or impeaching.
Time to focus on what matters to your constituents and promise to vote for their interests. Dems need to win back the HOUSE.
6
Could someone please muzzle Kristen Gillibrand so that she doesn't do any more harm to the Democratic party than she already has? First she destroyed Al Franken, a decent man and good senator who had engaged in some sophomoric but relatively harmless behavior, and now she's trying to drive the Trump base absolutely berserk by proposing the abolition of ICE without spelling out how it would be replaced. Just when we need to try and win some of these people over for November's election, she is essentially waving a red flag in front of a bull to drive them away. As much as I hate to admit it, Trump is exactly right on this one: this position is nothing but a loser for Democrats. By all means propose some reforms for ICE, but advocating its elimination will be just disastrous.
7
I think she could be a rich white woman fifth columnist, like the Senator whose place she took (Hillary Clinton).
Think about it. Clinton and her media allies pushed for Trump to be the GOP nominee, and then she lost to him. It was probably a thrown election as much as it was stolen with Russian help. And who by the way gave millions to the Clinton foundation? The Russians!
I think Gillibrand is doing the same thing here; making us weak from within.
And I think if you look at the number of white women who voted for Trump, it’s just a high probability that there are more of them out there.
This is why I voted for Stacey Abrams in the GA primary. It’s getting to the point where I can no longer trust wealthy white women who are probably just posing as progressives.
As a Goldman Sachs rep just explained to my wealthy friend, the wealthy have just gotten their unsustainably large tax cuts which will require massive cuts to the big 'entitlement' programs including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Disability, which benefit Trump's base. The solution: amplify the race baiting using the immigration issue to sugarcoat these cuts for 'the base' and distract everyone else. Thus Trump's sole job, that he is expert at, is to rally the base and enrage and distract everyone else with race talk on immigration. The call among some Democrats to abolish ICE plays into this game plan perfectly.
3
Before the establishment of ICE in 2003, I was so afraid to go outside. Crime was rampant and uncontrollable, but ICE solved all of that. I thought one of those Mexican children was going to rob my family with a pink comb, take my job as a software engineer, and make me start speaking Spanish, but thanks to ICE, I no longer live in fear. We need more organizations who answer desperation and struggle with violence and dehumanization. Shame on liberals for treating immigrants like human beings.
8
For once, Trump has gotten it right. In his own words, “I guarantee you everybody that ever bought a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump,” he said. “And they’re very unhappy about it.”
I welcome the ranks of Harley- Davidson owners to the growing ranks of those who are very unhappy they voted for Trump. And by the way Donald, your guarantee about the voting habits of Harley owners is about as accurate as your guarantee that Mexico will pay for a border wall.
4
I've owned several Harley-Davidsons for over ten years. I can most assuredly tell you that I didn't and never would have voted for Trump.
Abolishing ICE is about as dumb as trying to abolish the Second Amendment.
Both have been hijacked by the Republicans and need to be reigned in but NOT ELIMINATED. At this point in time, the political landscape is in the Democrats favor but the abolishment cry is a sure way to reinforce the Republicans' talking point that Democrats want the country to become overrun with illegal immigrants. Without ICE, illegal immigration will get worst. ICE needs to be reformed and held accountable but not eliminated.
Democrats will doom themselves severely if they try to make the elimination of ICE part of their re-election agenda.
I just don't get it. Why on Earth are Dems trying to represent people who are not US Citizens? When are Dems going to represent me, the taxpayer, military veteran, and working class?
The Democratic Party needs to focus on representing the moderate Left and Right folks and stop being the exclusive party for illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and the LBQT community.
15
Could it be that the Democratic Party leadership is run by secret Republicans who make sure that the Democrats are "the exclusive party for illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and the LBQT", and "never represent the moderate Left and Right folks"? Don't dismiss the possibility inside sabotage.
1
It doesn't have to be as sneaky or conspiratorial as "Dems are actually Republicans in disguise". It's more like, rich people / corporations bought both parties, because they could afford to, and they pay one of them to do dumb things so the other one stays in control.
The Democrats will not win without a message and eliminating ICE is not the message! Nixon won on his law an order platform and there was no counter by the Democrats in 68. Now history repeats itself, anger and the call to ban everything Trump is not the answer. The programs that the presidents administration has passed are by their very nature things that Democrats can point at that don't help every day Americans. The Republicans didn't really get rid of the ACA but the riders to bills have gutted the program. The tax bill hasn't really helped but coupled with the Trump Tariffs every day Americans are worse off. ICE may be on the hit list but its the president and the Secretary of Home Land Security that are to blame. They set the policy that is immoral and inhumane, and the ICE officers have to follow their directives. So rail against the inability of the president to effectively lead with example after example but don't play into his game or we will be stuck with him and his cronies in the house and senate for a long long time.
3
The number one issue in the last election was to keep Mexicans and C Americans on their side of the border. The Democratic party lost big time on this issue and now Mr.T and his ilk are decimating all of Our protections. The vast majority of Americans want to reverse this invasion of Spanish speakers. Re-unite Mexicans on their side of the border.
9
For those who insist we must protect ICE because it is border security. We have always had border security though the names have changed over the years. US Customs and Border Security, Immigration and Naturalization Service, etc. These agencies have been under the heading of the Department of the Treasury, the Department of Commerce and the Department of Justice.
FDR moved the Immagration and Naturalization Service to the Department of Justice in 1940 in an attempt to quell the hysteria surrounding the influx of migrants fleeing war in Europe. particularly Jews.
ICE was established as a separate branch in November of 2002 with the specific mandate of protecting national security in response to deadly attacks perpetrated on 9/11. I am unaware of any Mexicans who flew planes into buildings on 9/11.
ICE is in addition to our existing Border Protection agencies, not in place of. ICE has been ordered by the trump regime to exceed it's mandate and concentrate on deporting brown people under the blatant lie that they are a national security risk.
Eliminating ICE will not leave our borders unprotected, it will help to eliminate the the horror of separating children from their parents and caging them.
8
Lee,
Your point that eliminating ICE will not leave the borders unprotected is an important one. ICE does not deal with border protection. Customs and Border Protection has that job.
ICE deals with immigrants, illegal and legal, already in this country. They are making a mess of that job, harassing illegal and legal immigrants, and have been at least as far back as the Obama administration. The current separation of children from parents with no system for re-uniting them is only their latest botch.
ICE has shown itself not worthy of existing, doing more harm than good.
1
o, look. It took you five paragraphs to explain a nuanced policy. Put that into a two word slogan and blast it on MSNBC 24-7 until the election and the Dems might have a chance of recovering from Pelosi and Gillibrand.
1
Our evil POTUS has quietly used ICE as his own personal cudgeon, HIS tool to control immigration. Apparently the separation of children has been going on for a much longer period, and indications show more than DOUBLE the 2300 separated children and babies are jailed. Trump and Sessions should be whisked away to The Hague and tried for Crimes Against Humanity. I wonder if Betsy De Vos's evil brother Eric---who created and ran Blackwater----has his hands in populating the ranks of ICE? It's his type of business after all. Where are the Democrats' voices against ICE? They should be united.
1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day; Trump is correct that “abolish ice” is a losing slogan for Democrats - “immigration reform now” would do nicely.
6
"Comprehensive Immigration Reform" is amnesty first...then all that other stuff, like border enforcement...well....never. Hope leaders do not fall for it.
My favorite:
In the campaign for the 1986 amnesty law, Kennedy predicted that the law would grant citizenship to no more than 1.3 million people. “We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this,” he said.
2
Aww. Wasn't that cute? Where would all our companies and rich people get all their workers and gardeners and nannies for dirt cheap?
As I have said before, never underestimate the Democrats preternatural ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It's not ICE that the problem, it's the policies ICE is directed to enforce that's the problem. My advice to Dems is to focus on policies and not to demonize those directed to enforce those policies. Think minimum wage, health care, SS and Medicare, etc. if the Dems want to win in November.
10
Abolish ICE, such a bad idea, and wouldn't even happen. At best, the abolishment would be changing the name to something softer and gentler.
2
This is the best Dems could come up with, get rid of ICE! Hillary lost lot of votes not by the deplorable comment but by talking about open borders (yes, she meant commerce but that is how it was interpreted). Immigration is a hot topic for a lot of people including a lot of Independents.
11
I'm a Democrat and I'm in my early fifties, so I'm not that young. But firstly, I'm a humanitarian. The storm trooper-like tactics of ICE such as appearing at courthouses ready to swoop in and arrest people responding to misdemeanor hearings and tearing apart families is wrong morally. It is a redundant organization meant to nullify people's unfounded fears and create a show of "being tough." It needs to be abolished. That doesn't mean open borders. But more importantly, if that means losing the next presidential election or several but the country gets back on track, so be it. I'm tired of the old guard Democrats who are unwilling to stand up for what's right for fear of losing their jobs. We need more firebrand representation like Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I predict decades from now, we'll look back upon this era with shame.
7
How does not being in power help? We won't be back on track for a long time with the Supreme Court already.
In addition, there are a LOT of people needing help. If I'm going to lose fighting for the right thing, I'd rather fight for healthcare for all citizens so people don't die!
According to the article, “ICE has faced growing backlash over its tactics, including the arrest of undocumented immigrants as they drop their children off at school, and detaining and deporting those with minor offenses.” However, the dropping off children at school incident was actually an arrest made shortly after an illegal immigrant dropped his children off at school. Having just dropped off children at school doesn’t protect U.S. citizens who are parents from arrest; why should it protect illegal immigrants who are parents from arrest?
It is true ICE detrains and deports illegal immigrants who have minor offenses, but the Immigration and Naturalization Act tasks it to detain and deport illegal immigrants simply for violating immigration laws. U.S. citizens are not granted immunity to arrest simply because they have a record of minor offenses; why should illegal immigrants who have a record of minor offenses be granted immunity to arrest?
9
Trump’s Big Lie for the midterms is M-13 is coming to kill you, and I’m your only protector. His entire immigration narrative is a Big Lie and distraction from his corrupt, cruel and destructive administration.
As many point out, all “Democrats” aren’t calling to abolish ICE, and those who do still want immigration enforcement. But Trump’s digestible lies overwhelm the airspace via his vast propaganda machine of Twitter, Fox News and Russian trolls among others.
Without any single contrary voice breaking through this noise, the only path to taking back the House is local candidates reaching local constituencies on issues and with positions that are responsive to them. Conor Lamb, Doug Jones and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are perfect examples. Our tent must be big enough for many voices.
Effective organizations with strategic focus on specific local races are Sister District in the critical battles to retake state legislatures, and Swing Left focusing on specific House seats vulnerable for the party of Trump. Stay local, get involved.
2
Abolishing ICE sounds almost as wacko to me as hollowing out the State Department and the EPA, but when the latter are realities you have to expect one heck of a backlash. As a centrist I hoped to preserve moderation through the election of Hillary Clinton. Just as in the GOP, however, moderates in the Democratic Party seem increasingly marginalized by attack dogs on the fringe.Trump can say whatever he wants about the Democrats' chances for the midterms, but what should really concern the GOP is the potential for a cultural counterswell to their political aggression, extremism, and refusal to listen of the likes of which they may never have dreamed.
4
He is right because the call to abolish ICE will be seen as a call for open borders and the end of immigration laws. A better position would be to reform ICE and Immigration enforcement. This means changing immigration laws which Congress can’t seem to do.
4
Exactly:
"Calling for the abolition of ICE will scare the middle of the country and paint the Dems as being soft on immigration."
Some (not all) Democrats who call for the abolition of ICE draw a distinction between ICE and the Border Patrol, but most voters think they're one and the same agency (I'll admit that I did too, though now I understand they're separate).
Perception often being more important than reality (especially in politics), perhaps the Democratic Party leadership should have thought about this ahead of time.
7
As a retired former LEO, officers and supervisors under my command, understood that the law allows for discretion, particularly when it comes to misdemeanors and non-violent offense enforcement. Criminal laws are generally written that "a person MAY be arrested", and not that a person shall be arrested. A DAT or summons to appear in court would suffice when no violent act has occurred or that such a threat exist, unless there is an open arrest warrant, or that such person would be a flight risk. When parents with children are present or involved, the utmost discretion and care has to used, being mindful of the effect it can have on children, and that it can leave a lasting impression in a child's mind that they should be fearful and distrustful of LEOs. While there are instances where no other options exist but to take forceful action, it must always be done with only that force necessary to terminate or prevent a violent act, to overcome resistance, or to protect others, including the LEO. I knew that my last day of work would come if I were ordered to engage in an enforcement action that was morally corrupt or driven by a harmful or hateful agenda that is unconscionable, and that such action would create more harm than good. Separating children from parents now, particularly when they present themselves lawfully to seek asylum is simply wrong. It is nothing short of state sanctioned child abduction and it is shameful. We can and must be better than this.
2
I don’t understand why they want to abolish ICE. I agree with their anger and frustration and their general position on immigration. But what’s the point of shutting down an agency that would inevitably be replaced by another? It’s not like we won’t have immigration enforcement of some kind.
2
What is wrong with the Democratic Party? Is there no one in a leadership position in charge of strategic thinking?
I saw Elizabeth Warren on the stump calling for the abolition of ICE yesterday. This is something the Democrats should contemplate or push for once they have regained Congressional majority, not now a few short months before the mid-terms!
This will alienate the independent voter who cast a ballot for Trump in 2016 and who is essential for this coming election and for the one in 2020. Calling for the abolition of ICE will scare the middle of the country and paint the Dems as being soft on immigration.
15
Abolish ICE? It's very unfortunate that a major American political party, the Democrats, feels so comfortable in spitting in the face of every US citizen and legal immigrant and abandoning the country's own citizens in need. Continue this path of open/no border and you will ensure that I, and quite a few other progressive/centrist Democrats, will be voting conservative/republican starting in November. Kirsten Gillibrand I believe is up for reelection in November. Given her embarrassing train wreck interview over the weekend demonstrating just out unsuited she is to address major national policy regarding the country's border integrity she has now lost my vote. The Democrats ridiculous positions on immigration has made me a one issue voter, and it's no longer for the democrats. I'm definitely not alone.
7
Abolish ICE? It's very unfortunate that a major American political party, the Democrats, feels so comfortable in spitting in the face of every US citizen and legal immigrant and abandoning the country's own citizens in need. Continue this path of open/no border and you will ensure that I, and quite a few other progressive/centrist Democrats, will be voting conservative/republican starting in November. Kirsten Gillibrand I believe is up for reelection in November. Given her embarrassing train wreck interview over the weekend demonstrating just out unsuited she is to address major national policy regarding the country's border integrity she has now lost my vote. The Democrats ridiculous positions on immigration has made me a one issue voter, and it's no longer for the democrats. I'm definitely not alone.
14
Democrats never pass on an opportunity to lose an election. And if they talk about getting rid of ICE, they will do just that.
18
Dispose of the tool instead of revise or correct its' rules and procedures? Leave a gaping void in law enforcement?
Work on the rules and procedures, please.
4
At first, I thought this commenter was kidding:
"In truth, if we can abolish ICE, and open the borders, it won't matter how many deplorable bitter clingers there are ...
Because with cheap property values in Red America and flyover country, with open borders and amnesty we can completely fill Red America and flyover country with a new Democratic majority. We can basically replace the people we have, who have sadly tilted towards racism and fascism ...
I attended one of our Saturday protests, and was one of hundreds who were carrying abolish ICE signs. ...
Trust me, abolish ICE is an extremely strong and heartfelt position, it IS the position of progressives like me ...".
That's exactly what voters fear:
that "Abolish ICE!" means exactly what this commenter says it means (and more than many "Abolish ICE!" proponents say it means). Whether or not "Abolish ICE!" has long-term merits, as this commenter insists, it's s terrible campaign tactic for Democrats this November. (I first typed "campaign strategy" rather than "campaign tactic," but that would have suggested the Democratic Party HAS a "campaign strategy." If it does, I sure haven't noticed.)
10
I agree with Trump, but don't know why he is attacking them. There is an old principle of warfare that, very roughly, says that when your opponents are busy destroying themselves, the best course is to stay silent and get out of the way. The longer the call "Abolish ICE!" resonates--maybe it can even pick up steam--the easier the Republicans' task in November.
In a related note, I anticipate the Democrats will somehow attempt to tie in ICE to the so-called War on Women. Commenters on the Janus decision have already done so--you know, the teachers' unions will be hard hit, the majority of teachers are women so, voila!--the decision was motivated by misogyny.
Do Democrats get their political strategies from coloring books?
5
For THAT city, at least:
"How do progressives handle our own internal refugee problem? ... Many states are giving free bus and plane tickets. Problem solved."
Not so sure about the destination city.
2
Trumpists will not change their vote no matter what. Dems focus on GOP //Trump issues; repealing ACA; increasing prescription prices;Taxscam; stagnant wages; jobs that do not pay a living wage. Ray Sipe
1
Why does so much of what Trump says end up on the front page? His every pronouncement, his contradictory tweets....
Why not report his statements only with rebuttals? And, why not avoid headlining his points? Keep in mind that he may well say the opposite tomorrow...
4
Abolishing ICE is a priority for the Dems right now? It is a stunningly stupid strategy which virtually guarantees our defeat this fall. We had better develop a strategy right now that speaks to and for all Dems across the country immediately or we are done. As much as my emotions are with the resistance, this will not be a successful strategy. We must be FOR something rather than against. And as difficult as it is, I believe it is time for Schumer and Pelosi to step aside and to mentor a new generation to develop a successful plan which takes a strategic long view. Unfortunately, the Democratic party is significantly divided. I hope we can learn before it is too late. I'm not feeling optimistic.
10
This is the first time I agree with the buffoon. And I am beginning to see the need of forming and realigning to create three major political parties. The far right (Republican), the far left (Democratics) and the Centrists, Moderates, Independent Thinkers, Compromisers: we will need to work on the branding. Progressives you are splitting our party in two.
8
trump knows an issue that can be used to destroy the Dems and found it here. He's saying at every chance that the Dems want to allow free immigration and allow all those rapists to cross into the US to murder everyone. This fear mongering plays well to the fly-over states and was effectively used to win the election.
Anything that smacks of "outside the box" thinking, and not paying your own way (e.g. socialism) is a non-starter and a quick way to make sure the dictator in chief undoes what took 250 years to build--the United States.
Vote responsibly in November!
2
This has become the reflexive response of the GOP to anything the Dems do. It's an intimidation tactic meant to neutralize its adversaries through their inaction i.e. paralysis by analysis. It's Trump who has the 40% approval ratings and a GOP Congress with the perhaps the lowest approval rating in history.
The Dems have responded passion and discipline. The only violence has been at Charlottesville which resulted in a murder by the Neo Nazi protestors who Trump condoned.
Mueller has it all. It surpasses anything we imagined. The depth and breadth of Trump's corruption will promote that 40% to face the truth: Trump is a lifelong criminal.
3
Regardless, what sort of person would vote for the party of the Russian-American white supremacy, anti-moslem oligarch party? I mean, if you vote Trump and the Trump Party henchman back into office, you'll be welcoming an authoritarian regime hell bent on maintaining power and ultimate totalitarian control over us. Oddly, I have heard people say "we really need a dictator right now" Yes, I have.
I didn't spend my life in the US Navy to have greedy, ignorant people invite the same people I tried to prevent from taking over militarily what our own citizens are inviting into our own backyard! Winter is coming.
5
Speaking of "blurring" separate issues ...
Many commenters correctly argue that most Democrats who call for ICE to be abolished are NOT advocating "open borders" (though some indeed are, as some comments here make clear).
But both major parties, it appears, can play at this "issue-blurring" game. Here are two separate issues that the Democratic Party would like voters to think are one and the same: (1) separating families and (2) not allowing asylum seekers to stay in the US while their asylum application is pending.
Trump's executive order to end family separations implied that there was a reprehensible policy that needed to be changed. In addition, Trump's EO has shortcomings (though nearly all are temporary). Nevertheless, flawed or not, Trump's EO does end family separations going forward. That being so, a great deal of the subject matter of this weekend's protests didn't actually exist.
What DOES still exist, of course, is this question: "What happens to a would-be immigrant family after 20 days?" (The Flores settlement decree prohibits ICE from retaining children after 20 days; after that, there are various options, but continued ICE detention isn't one of them.) The obvious dilemma: "Since ICE can't keep the children, what happens to their parents?"
I don't know the answer, but I know what it should NOT be: The parents (who crossed the border illegally, were caught, and THEN demanded asylum) should not be freed in the US while they wait for their asylum hearing.
5
> 'On Thursday, Kirsten Gillibrand, Democrat of New York, became the first senator to directly support the agency’s abolishment.
“I believe you should get rid of it, start over, reimagine it and build something that actually works,” Ms. Gillibrand said on CNN.'
The reason why ICE is having a difficult with enforcement is because Congress has not mandated that all employers use eVerify which electronically verifies that employer are following the law when hiring.
Unfortunately, there are a number of unscrupulous employers that prefer to hire illegal aliens because they cannot complain about illegally low wages and illegal working conditions while the unscrupulous employer benefits financially.
Congress mandating eVerify means lower profits for unscrupulous employers more jobs and higher wages for Americans, thus helping to minimize inequality among America's poorest who have to compete with illegal aliens for jobs.
If she really wants to fix this problem of ICE, Senator Gillibrand should sponsor a bill in Congress that mandates enforcement of eVerify (without adding additional terms) for use by all employers.
20
Trump is correct.
11
As I understand it, even a group of 19 ICE investigators called for the agency to be disbanded or split into two different divisions. What we really need here is abolition of the Trump presidency.
3
Saturday’s many “Families Belong Together” marches brought necessary attention to the cruel and humane child abuse of the Trump administration in separating children from parents who seek asylum from violence in their home countries.
But it failed to focus on another family crisis involving our own US citizens. And that is the separation taking place via ICE raids on workplaces across the United States. One recent raid of a nursery in rural Ohio resulted in the detention of 114 gardeners and florists suspected of having entered the country illegally. (See article in July 1 Washington Post.)
But those detentions left 90 children who are US citizens missing one parent and at least 20 with no parent at all to care for them. American children are left with no support system other than local charities while ICE handcuffs workers, many of whom have been productive residents of this country for decades eking out a living for their families.
Trump likes to boast about ICE tackling the vicious MS-13 gang, but is silent on raids that substantially divert precious resources from MS-13 to assault families. Meanwhile his Republican supporters have expressed no outrage about Trump’s attacks on American children or his coddling of MS-13.
The resources of ICE need to be focussed on dealing with threats to America, not taking American children from their hardworking parents. Trump is perverting ICE' mission and its reputation.
2
Calling for the abolishment of ICE is a sure way to lose votes and give Trump a better chance to ensure the GOP retains control of Congress.
Calling for an end to the DT policy of family separation at the borders is good, providing for more judges at the border is also reasonable.
However, calling for the complete abolishment of ICE is a step too far and plays into the Trump lie that the Dems want open borders and that they have no interest in putting any curbs or control over the subsequent millions of illegal aliens that will pour over the border.
The Dems need to get a common sense, cohesive message about the immigration issue- one that makes sense from a security viewpoint and provides compassion for asylum seekers.
Any asylum policy needs to have a cooperative agreement with Mexico since the asylum seekers are crossing the border to the US from Mexico- not their native Central American countries.
I get that Mexico doesn't want to absorb all the asylum seekers, but technically, once the asylum seekers leave their country and arrive in Mexico, they are no longer in the same danger. They continue their journey to the US bypassing Mexico because they seek not only safety but economic opportunity as well.
If Mexico were to step up and absorb a percentage of asylum seekers, both countries could handle these people with humanity and compassion.
Ultimately, the drug demand fuels the drug gangs in all countries so we all need to take responsibility.
I
8
I would concentrate on delaying the Supreme Court nominee. Susan Collins is covering herself with Maine liberals but she voted for Gorsuch, a real danger to women's health and more. She will vote for whoever Trump nominates if they promise to maintain precedent.
Democrats need to focus on the priorities and stop the distractions that rile up Trump's base.
Let's do something constructive, not destructive!
5
For democrats who are ambivalent about border issues the abolishment of ICE can only be a nudge to the right. Come one, come all? Another case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the fall. I'm personally skeptical about those stories of gang violence that sound exactly the same when refuge seekers try to cross the border. How can any of it be verified? People who wonder why all the problems south of our border land on our door step are perfectly justified in their resistance to uncontrolled immigration.
8
I agree ICE is mismanaged and is just another remnant from 911 when agencies were created to make it look like something was being done. But when are the dems going to talk about something besides Immigration? Is that the hill they are willing to die on?
5
Since the rules have changed under Jeff Sessions, ICE's duties have doubled and now include mass seizures in places of employment and heartless tactics. Prior to Trump and Sessions, ICE was not the big bad wolf they are now. The only reason Trump and Sessions have issued tougher ICE strategies is because it plays so well with the Trump base. Other than Trump's base, the rest of the country hasn't had a president since January 19, 2017.
3
The Democratic Party is even more hypocritical than the Republicans on immigration and African Americans. The Dems are clearly more concerned about illegal immigrants than their own African American constituents.
Increased immigration - especially cheap labour - only serves to empower employers to provide lower wages and fewer benefits. And yes, it's true that many illegal immigrants will work for lower wages than American citizens and legal residents, but that doesn't necessarily make the country a better place, as it further marginalizes the country's growing poverty class.
The Democrats have virtually abandoned its country's lower income citizens and legal residents in favor of increased immigration - illegal or not. The Dems will not recognize that their number one obligation is to make reparations for the injustices suffered by its African American residents.
The Democrats are complicit with large sectors of the country's labour sector vis à vis the underground economy for illegal workers and therefore do not want the e-verify program to be established. They would prefer to have a greater influx of foreign workers to drive wages down even further - much to the detriment of their own constituents.
Where are the spokespersons who are speaking up for African Americans and their right to full employment and fair wages. There certainly aren't any coming from the Democratic Party.
12
Trump and the angry GOP have blown the immigrant nonsense so out of this world you have to admit they are great actors. Recently a NYT's article went to border towns and asked the Brownsville ,Texas mayor about the Mexican crisis. He said what crisis . The GOP did the same fear mongering about abortion and we know it was not being done in our clinics with tax payer money. Abortion is wrong it is murder but God will judge the sick souls who are allowing that to happen and it should not be in our election. I and many staunch Catholics believe that way. The GOP are mixing religion with our national politics and they have stepped over the boundaries our four fathers said in the constitution don't mix state politics and religion together. They knew it would not work. You GOP are allowing Trump and friends to force you to live in fear when they are lies we are being told.
1
Huge red wave coming this November.
What feckless Democratic strategists don't seem to get, is that making wedge issues front and center, is terrible strategy.
From NYT's Thomas Edsall:
"The problem for those calling for the enactment of liberal policies, however, is that immigration is a voting issue for a minority of the electorate.[top issue for 13%] And among those who say immigration is their top issue, opponents outnumber supporters by nearly two to one. In this respect, immigration is similar to gun control — both mobilize opponents more than supporters."
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/opinion/the-democrats-immigration-...
Before you can enact policy, you need to win.
Traditional FDR New Deal economic policy positions are big *winning* positions among voters - particularly swing voters:
- More than 70% of voters support a higher minimum wage.
- More than 80% of *Republican* voters support Social Security - let alone swing voters.
- Workers are alarmed about decades of big trade deficits.
The *minimum* wage of 1969 would be over $19, adjusted for productivity growth and inflation instead of $7.25 today. What did Obama do about that?
Obama tried to cut Social Security.
TPP? Since US workers had no seat at the table - even our legislators were given less access to TPP drafts than the lobbyists involved in writing and negotiating it - you can be sure that they were on the menu.
Again.
Red wave coming in November.
Too late for 2018.
10
Abolishing ICE is silly. Who do these people think are rounding up MS-13 and other gang members?
6
"But only a small number of Democratic lawmakers have called for abolishing ICE."
As usual the press takes every opportunity to amplify any conflict it can find. Often when it on the Democrats side. Further more the article fails to mention that we have a border control agency.
5
I agree that calls to "abolish ICE" are stupid - and politically damaging. I was at one of those large marches on Saturday, and though I enthusiastically agreed with "Vote them OUT!", I kept silent for "abolish ICE". I do think that ICE needs to be restructured - it's become Border Storm Troopers, when I think we need something more like Border Passport Office for asylum seekers and immigrants, and Customs Service to make sure that no one is smuggling drugs or endangered species (alive or dead) or weapons (they can be more police like, but WAY MORE POLITE to everyone.) Hiring practices and culture need a complete overhaul at that agency, and probably most of the employees currently serving need to be turned over for that to happen.
4
ICE acts with impunity, almost upon whim. It is an official form of thuggery, and Trump would be happy to expand its activities to do his bidding. However, although ICE is a nasty problem, it is a distraction from the many more pressing problems the Dems need to focus upon.
6
He's right. Obviously right. It will in fact hurt Democrats. I'm a Democrat and would not vote for anyone advocating this.
13
I agree that this should not be a talking point for the Democrats. But what they could say, and what would resonate with me, is that we don't want a country where the police knock on your door in the night and take people away, where the police rip children from their parents arms and then "lose" them, where the police arrest and detain people legally here who have worked and contributed for many years as valuable parts of their communities. Trump and the Republicans have created this war on our laws, their cruelty should not be condoned or supported. That's your talking point if you really want to go there.
3
Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was created as part of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), when DHS was created by the Homeland Security Act of 2002. BUT, unlike USCIS (United States Citizenship and Immigration Services), neither ICE, nor Customs and Border Protection (CBP) were codified in the law. These departments were set up ad hoc to meet the law enforcement needs created, in significant but not exclusive part, by 9/11. These departments are chameleons meant to adopt themselves to changing, sometimes rapidly changing, security environments. The statement to abolish ICE is an oxymoron. ICE may have been abolished yesterday, and re-instituted today, without knowledge of the public. Or it may have radically changed its functions and operations for a few minutes, days, or weeks. The issue is oversight of ICE (and CBP). Congressional oversight of an executive department that is not codified in the law is not really feasible. People who say they want ICE to be abolished in reality want to have oversight over this department. The question is to what extent this can be done while maintaining national security priorities.
3
The word "abolish" in the context of ICE is probably the wrong word. No reasonable party is saying that the country should have anything close to open borders. A proper and effective immigration agency is important. The problem with the current structure is that ICE increasing acts as policeman, judge, jury and executioner in an often brutal and unnecessary way, some would say storm-trooper manner. One can have a strong reformed agency, indeed one that is close to zero tolerance on policy but still maintain due process and a sense of compassion and humanity. It is the militarism and storm-trooper tactics that increasing Americans want to abolish, not the fundamental mission. It is a stain on American reputation and the President himself for the brutality that is going on to persist. In fact, it is totally un-American!
1
Democrats should run on reforming ICE and address the mismanagement and corruption. The suggestion to abolish it is a crazy and will be used to defeat the democrats in the upcoming elections. Democrat leaders must get smarter or get out of the way.
3
I wonder how many protesters against Trump's immigration policy pay taxes. Trump has tried to lessen American taxpayers' financial suffering because illegal immigration has exhausted the governmental finance.
He’s just trying to prevent massive illegal immigration from wasting taxpayers' money because unlawful immigrants don’t, can’t, and worn’t pay tax while they enjoy public services. If anyone realizes how much absurd “catch and release” policy has costed, he or she will support Trump’s “zero tolerance” policy.
The unfortunate consequence of family separation comes from non-U.S.-citizens' illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants should be differentiated from Dreamer since they are simply criminal aliens who unlawfully crossed the border for the financial benefit of United States. If non-American-citizens want to give their children better futures in U.S., they should LEGALLY immigrate into United States.
Why should innocent taxpayers financially suffer from massive illegal immigration? People Mr. President most cares are not the criminal aliens, but innocent American taxpayers. As President, Trump is just doing his duty to protect their people from any economic harm.
10
It’s not immigration that has exhausted the taxpayers’ resources. That’s just one of the lies trumpers like to parrot. 2 wars and massive tax cuts have done that
2
If Trump wanted to protect people from economic harm he wouldn’t launch trade wars, wouldn’t have pushed a tax cut that only benefits people who are already wealthy, and wouldn’t nominate Supreme Court justices who are dedicating to abolishing workers’ rights.
3
Donald J. Trump will be known historically as the U.S. president who cruelly separated migrant families and caged children---with no humane plan to reunite those families.
Sure, he's fast-talked propaganda to blame Democrats.
But at the same time, reality documents he's happily consumed with the Russian president (who directed a war on U.S. elections.) And ignoring that his summit with a North Korean dictator has made him look foolishly played.
Trump's far more interested in cavorting with known foes of America than dealing with a humanitarian crisis created through his own relentless incompetence.
2
Should never have been said. What is needed now is a stable, respected, reliable, likable, intelligent voice from within the Democratic ranks who will be the party figurehead and spokesperson. Someone who will loudly and effectively correct this kind of overreach.
5
Aaanndd the Democrats, predictively fall into the trap. I hate when I have to agree with Donald Trump. But, if they think “abolish ICE” is a winning political strategy, they are sadly mistaken !
Moderate it, stop separating families and workplace raids that punish the illegal employees but do not prosecute their employers. These people have pouring in this country for decades with tacit approval from their mostly Republican employers. Dems may think they are claiming the moral high ground, but if they can’t get elected, what good will that do ?
10
Trump is right, as much as I hate to say it.
9
This is Trump's genius---keep goading liberals with blatantly racists/sexists policies and comments, and then wait for the liberals to take the bait. Please liberals stop targeting enforcement agencies, target the source of the policies they are directed to implement.
11
The Democrats shoot themselves again. It almost seems like inside sabotage. Open borders means the end of the country. Focus on the money issues that threaten most people including Trump supporters, like the planned cuts to Social Security and Medicare, and the elimination of protection for preexisting conditions.
8
Abolish ICE? I have heard plenty of comments from Democrats saying it needs to be reformed. How is it that the Republicans can take something totally out of context and make a big thing out of it and suddenly it’s such a negative for Democrats. But Trump daily lies and makes big deals out of nothing that are proven wrong and suffers no consequences? North Korea is still at it but not a peep from a Republican.
6
You know for sure you are a crook when you are president of the United States and your relatives won't talk about you: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/world/europe/trump-germany-family-anc...
1
ICE's abuse of immigrants extends back to the Obama administration and is well documented by such agencies as the ACLU. It has been and currently is an abusive police force. It's long overdue for an overhauling, replacing it with an agency that will treat immigrants humanely.
Some links noting abuse:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sexual-assaults-immigration-detenti...
The Democrats need to show they have some spine and concern for immigrants and stick to the call to abolish ICE.
1
While I completely agree with you that the current focus of ICE needs a major overhaul, I think the the verbiage and statements to abolish ICE would do the Democrats more harm than good. Most people will not look past the protest signs nor the reasons for protest. They will see the call to abolish ICE as a mistaken call to eliminate border control and security. We Democrats need to clarify our message.
71
John Bergstrom,
At least since 2010 ICE has been an abusive, out of control police agency, answerable apparently to no one. That includes charging into buildings, rounding up people en masse with no legal authority to do so.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses...
We need to worry about the physical and psychological harm done to innocent people, not the Democratic image. Democratics need to educate the public about ICE abuses going on for many years now with no change in sight. Once that education is done, abolishing ICE and starting over with a more humane agency will be a very good idea, helping not only terrified immigrants but also the stature of the Democratic Party.
Maybe politicians like Kirsten Gillibrand will do that and earn respect from progressive for their commitment to doing the right thing, rather than worrying about their image.
Correction: The first link above in my post shows abuse by the Customs and Boarder Protection agency (CBP), a separate agency in the Homeland Security Dept from ICE. The 2nd link is indeed about ICE
Here are some links from the ACLU's website about specifically ICE abuses:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses...
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses...
https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses...
1
The win in NY’s 14th congressional district was an ethnic vote — a Latina won in an Hispanic neighborhood. Democrats can continue to pander to Hispanics and ignore their more moderate constituents and continue to lose elections. Americans do not want open borders.
8
Democrats once again snatching defeat from the mouth of victory.
6
Any loyal democrat should want open borders. The ranks are diminishing. Time to replenish the party.
2
Michelle was right...when they go low, go high. Dems and even the so-called Rs have never won when playing the game on Trump's terms...he is a master at being a troll. The only person who I can recall as out-trolling Trump was Levar Ball.
Don't feed the troll by talking about eliminating ICE (feeds into the Dems for open borders narrative). Keep on message...family unity plus mercy and kindness towards the stranger.
1
Even better than calls to abolish ICE, if the Dems wish to ensure defeat, let Gillibrand and others blow with the prevailing wind of the minority of party members hostile to Israel.
I’m a registered Dem, but me and my friends find little common ground with Richard Spencer or Linda Sarsour.
5
Abolish ICE while we have thousands of South Americans lined up at the border?
The democrats WANT open borders, that's their platform! And that's why they'll lose (again).
6
Let us remember July 4, and not let the socialist democrats give this country away by their hatred for Americans, the law of this land, the history, and those who have fought so hard for it in many wars. Illegal is Illegal; remember that and how everyone's ancestors assimilated, wanted a better land and did not come to take advantage of our generous benefits.
4
They came desperate for a better life and many to even save their lives. Just like the vast majority of people now. We have always been a country of immigrants and a country of naturalistsbwhi resist them
1
If the laws of today where in effect when your ancestors came they would have been turned away. At 3% unemployment and the low birth rate in our country, our laws need to change. Welcoming hard working people in search of a better life for them and their children, is what has made the U.S. strong.
Since Trump controls the daily narrative, of course he will frame the call to abolish ICE as he wishes. The Democrats will not win this one as they have no voice. Trump and the GOP are playing a zero sum game, there is no nuance whatsoever.
Gellibrand is just jumping on the upstart's bandwagon. I wish she would think things through.
Focus Democrats. You are once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Find a message and start talking about it instead of floundering and slapping out of water on dry dock. You have plenty of issues to 'work' with.
3
This isn't the stupidest idea that extreme leftists have come up with but it's in the top three. This silliness shows that the Democrats do not have a cohesive message or even one that makes any sense except to oppose Trump. Abolish ICE, oppose Trump, BLM, take a knee, bash Christians, bash vets, praise illegals what happened to the Democratic party?
13
We'll it happened. Trump finally said something that made sense.
Pinch me.
8
Trump has a coordinated strategy. It works on a large swath of people. The truth is while he use “Abolish Ice” as a bludgeon to beat us, the rest of our freedoms are being overrun, our citizens have less safe water and air and our future is in hoc to special interests. Ice is in fact, terrorizing many quietly working illegals like jack-booted thugs. But the Trump majority does not understand that they are not a solely a shield against real criminals. It’s MESSAGING kids. Steal his March. Immigration Reform!
2
The moral here is Trump is dumb like a fox, pun intended. Thanks to the likes of Warren and Waters, the only question remaining is whether the Democrats are just socialists or actually anarchists. As in the election, POTUS outplayed them all.
5
I like the German model for illegal immigration who they call “irregular” immigrants...divert them to off shore anchor centers preferably in their own home countries.
2
Before abolishing ICE, remove Emma Lazarus' poem from the Statue of Liberty.
2
Emma Lazarus' poem omits entirely any reference to border enforcement. It is located on a statue that stands at the entrance to a harbor, in which the only entry will be legal entry.
The Lazarus meme is overdone, but if Democrats want to be associated with the absence of border controls and the promotion of blanket entry, whether legal or illegal, they can have at it.
2
Uh, ya think? What could possibly go wrong with Medicare for all, a federal “jobs guarantee” program, and open borders.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!
Hmmm. It’s a real thinker!!
6
“I guarantee you everybody that ever bought a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump,” said Trump.
While he may have a plurality or support there, this statement is clearly a lie if so much as one Harley-Davidson owner didn’t support him,
You don’t have to be a math whiz to understand that statistically there is no way that every single Harley-Davidson owner voted for him. His credibility is lousy, and asinine assertions like this make it impossible to believe him on anything.
Example behind this? His assertion that North Korea agreed to denuclearization. They didn’t and their actions since then show that they have no immediate intention to do so.
Can the GOP please wake up and back impeachment? They will still have Pence, but we will be free of the daily assault on truth.
2
Trump has what the liberals struggle with ... common sense
6
Abolish ICE is just a stupid message. Its not that I have any warm feelings towards ICE, and maybe it's time to get rid of ICE and restructure it more like the old INS.
But why would you move the bullseye off Trump and the Republicans. Why not pin the cruelty against children and families where it rightly belongs: Trump and the Republicans. Why would you focus on ICE, an agency that had been in existence for 14 years before Trump was elected president? An agency that operated throughout Obama's 8 years in office? Is ICE running for Congress? Is ICE running for president?
Just plain stupid.
6
Trump is just trash talking saying that resistance is futile- it isn't we are in the majority- in the long run the Republican power is dead- we just need to be strategic in our opposition
3
Stupids Dems. We'll blow the midterms on this one issue.
And down here on the Texas border we want it to work just like it always has for immigrants trying to enter the USA.
I'm more concerned about billionaire Russian women coming here to drop a baby.
2
Trump says things only to help himself, usually lies because he does so llttle good. He blames the Democrats for every problem he has caused and starts a new crisis every month because he loves the attention.
He can be judged not on what he says, but only what he does.
1
Every time anti-America Trump opens his mouth he betrays our country. He is an evil man who promotes crime and violence.
5
Dirt-ignorant Americans love it when their president scapegoats immigrants as criminals. Dirt-ignorant Americans vote. 2018 will be about getting Roe overturned and 2020 will be the reward for overturning it.
1
Don’t let Trump and FOX newz equate reforming/breaking up ICE with allowing “open borders”.
Get rid of some of ICE’s Gestapo tactics. Rein in its power. It was created post-9/11, but it shouldn’t be what it’s grown into.
Human dignity matters in the United States of America.
1
Trump is right, you know. How can Democrats be so stupid?
6
Maybe we should abolish Congress. They are worse than useless.
4
For the most part, Democratic Party leaders ran away from Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter protestors. They talk about supporting women's rights but allow the Supreme Court to carry their water. They say they support unions and we know where that "support" has gotten us. Where did their political positioning get them? Moderation is not the answer. Democrats need to stand up for something other than "a better deal" or they are going to get their collective butts kicked again! If Donald Trump and his cadre of angry white men hasn't taught us a lesson in political debate, it should have.
2
Hey every now and then a bigot, rabble rousing, pathological liar, admitted sexual predator, philanderer, border line Russian spy ego maniac demagogue like Trump is right.
Democrats pay heed. Don't jump over the cliff to your death like lemmings and like what Hillary did.
5
“I believe you should get rid of it, start over, reimagine it and build something that actually works,” Ms. Gillibrand said on CNN."
This is like the Republican mantra on ACE to "Repeal and Replace" Repealing is easy; Replacing an agency that enforces our immigration laws is the real challenge. While the novice winner of the nomination in N.Y. City can get away with such simplistic exageration, a Senator who is considered a potential Presidential candidate can be deemed as speaking for her party.
This is validating Trump's lie that the Democrats are for open borders. What a gift to give to this man who is doing such vast harm to the country and the world.
2
I am wondering if there have ever been any undocumented immigrant employees at a Trump or Kushner project in construction or while operating? This seems like a fascinating investigative piece for the Times to do. As the Trumps put their name in with other developers on projects I’m pretty sure this story will strike gold.
1
You are soooo right ! If the supposedly liberal MSM is so anti Trump, how hard can it be to go find WHO actually cuts the grass at a Trump golf course, WHO works the back of the kitchens at Trump restaurants? Who mucks our the stalls for Ivanka’s horses ? And as you say, all those construction projects? You know the answer ! Maybe not illegal, but almost certainly Hispanic immigrants
Don't let Trump control the narrative. As a country and a world the two biggest problems we face are how to ban fossil fuels and how to distribute the planet's wealth fairly, for example by taxing the wealthiest people. While doing these two things, we will have time for bureaucratic adjustments like deciding what to do about ICE. Trump wants people to fixate on brown-skinned refugees so they don't notice orange-skinned billionaires destroying the planet and taking most of the wealth for themselves.
1
Do any rational American believes the democrats are serious about stopping illegal immigration? It's getting harder and harder because, thus far, democrats have opposed every single measure to detain illegal immigrants at our border. First it was the cages, then it was the separations, and now abolishing ICE. The latter is the most telling. A majority of Americans want firmer immigration laws. Hopefully, they will send the same message to the democrats that they did during the last midterms -- the message Obama called a "shellacking."
7
When we crave inspiration, we get desperation. The knuckleheads at the DNC would do better to focus on voting for something- something we can all understand like courtesy, justice for all, all people are created equal, a well regulated militia, freedom, the rights of the individual and the separation of church and state- all of which seems very much in jeopardy this July 4.
2
Maybe “abolish” is too strong a word for this reactionary country. Fair enough. “Reform ICE” it is.
1
Unless Democrats start to show even a fraction of the passion for jobs and the economy as they do for immigration and ICE, they can pretty much write off my hitherto reliable vote.
The party is in the process of, at best, splintering or at worst, being condemned to the trash heap.
Sad.
6
This seems to be a plan that works. Say and do outrageous things. That sparks outrage on the part of Democrats. The sight of outraged Democrats is off-putting to many people.
If the new face of the Democrats is an agitated Maxine Waters and hyperbolic Elizabeth Warren advocating for the abolishment of ICE and the public harassment of those with whom they disagree, then they will be hammered at the polls. Is the left so bereft of a coherent idea or strategy that it must resort to shouting at citizens and abolishing enforcement agencies? It might be exhilarating--in a cathartic, anarchic, primitive sort of way---to shout and yell and agitate; but to the average citizen it repels rather than persuades.
11
"Lock her up! Lock her up!" seems to have worked for Trump. Just sayin'.
I was really looking forward to getting rid of President Trump. I've been getting increasingly sick of him over the past few months, him and the conservative justices on the supreme court.
And then the democrats had to call for abolishing ICE. Not just the fringe of the party, but the supposed front-runners for 2020 were making that call. Now none of them can possibly win in the general.Trump set a trap for them with the child detentions and they foolishly took the bait.
WHY???
6
Republicans are a minority party. The biggest asset they have in addition to gerrymandering and voter suppression is voter apathy. Be aware that Trump was somehow placed in office by a mere 24% of the total potential US electorate.
Rather than disparage the anger that many have for Trump's amoral extremism and his ripping of children from the arms of their mothers without a second thought- any serious opponent of the Trumpian/GOP nightmare we are living with daily will work like crazy to get out the vote. Voter apathy is a far greater danger to our democracy than a few outspoken activists.
1
I am disappointed and angry that, once again, Democrats are apparently taking their lead from candidates and representatives in Hispanic strongholds, where immigration is the priority. This is why they lost to Trump in the first place. When will they gain a broader, more inclusive view for moderates, and (gasp!) working class people without apology? Do they not realize Sanders won because traditional Democrats are struggling?
10
I don't know why this article was written and published. Perhaps the press should stop giving free air time to President Trump's fact-free statements and tweets.
4
Why not scale back their jurisdiction to what it used to be, something like 5 miles from all international borders and shorelines. 50 miles is ridiculous. In Florida, 50 miles inland from the coast in all directions means they have jurisdiction over practically the whole state.
2
Either people like this clown or not & nothing much will change their minds. The 100 million that didn’t bother to vote either get it or they don’t. We’ll get another glimpse of what our fellow citizens are at the midterms. We stay home alot more now that we saw what we’re living amongst after the last election.
2
"Trump Says Calls to Abolish ICE Will Help Republicans"
He's right.
8
At this weekend’s Families Belong Together rally, many “Abolish ICE” signs were on display but when my local Democrat Congressmen spoke a few shouted “Execute ICE”. Democrats lost me at that point, I probably will not vote this cycle.
8
So you're not buying the "lie" story? Most Americans aren't either.
3
Democrats never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The disaster on the border is outrageous. Instead of making the GOP defend the indefensible; the story is now going to be that Democrats want to abolish law enforcement and have open borders.
ICE isn't the problem. It's the administration's policies coupled with a antiquated immigration law that is in desperate need of reform. Going after the people that enforce the law is stupid. ICE and the Border Patrol are simply doing their jobs the best they can. Come out in favor of comprehensive immigration reform and attack the administration for breaking deals. Attack the GOP for doing nothing for years. Don't attack the people that have to work in a broken system that they don't like any more than anyone else.
When the Dems lose in 2018 they can look to this sort of political malpractice.
5
They said that threats to ban all Muslims and claims that all Mexicans are rapists would ruin the Republican Party. They said nobody would vote for a man who says we should leave NATO and let Russia take over Europe. Turns out people are tired of the same old politics. The era of outrageousness is upon us, and Democrats are learning to play by the new rules. Do people seriously believe that either party is going to get anywhere by boring the voters with "business as usual" proposals in this day and age?
1
And for once Donald Trump is correct.
Don't jump the shark Dems.
7
Thete are said to be 1.5 MILLION gang members in the US, 25-50,000 in El Salvador.
MS13, Trump's favorite gang, was formed in LA and like the rest of historic American gang culture, EXPORTED from the US to Latin America.
On some definitions, America is now run by the Trump Gang or 'family', with Nancy Pelosi's gang confused how they lost so much territory to an upstart Boss.
Perhaps Americans should be seeking asylum in safe boring Canada?
1
This is Trump playing off the talking point of the young socialist woman in Bronx. No one else but Trump is saying it. He is weaponizing her far left campaign against the entire Democratic Party on Fox. Trump is a brilliant TV personality and he’s in his sweet spot. Where is our candidate to run against this monster? We need someone pronto to counter Trump’s absurd untruths and lead our country back on a path of righteousness and un-Trump-ness.
2
Immigration issues are undermining liberal governments all over Europe and replacing them with right of center regimes. Even the German coalition is in risk of falling apart. Yet the Democrats wish to take us the opposite way, toward open borders and granting "immigrant" status to those who don't even go through the formalities.
And they think there is going to be a "blue wave" this November? They should stop watching MSNBC and start, as Ann Landers used to say, "waking up and smelling the coffee". Perhaps a little listening to the BBC World Service would help.
15
So president Trump seeks political advantage from Democratic lawmakers calling for the abolishment of ICE after Democratic lawmakers sought political advantage from doing so. I guess we’ll see who views are more representative of the electorate and actually achieves an advantage. My money is on the president.
5
Some Democrats call for replacing ICE with something more effective - you know, catching and deporting criminals instead of ripping kids out of the arms of their parents and then losing track of them.
I would never go to china and live there without getting a visa or paperwork and expect to be able to stay.
Undocumented delivery men and maids take the jobs from the poor and working class young people in this city.
That they will work jobs at less than minimum wage without benefits reduces wage and benefits pressure for the lower class americans who would otherwise be hired to do those jobs
Even if they pay sales tax, they are still responsible for a huge dark economy free from taxation.
The solution would be to either make them all citizens, or to deport them, and for the sake of not setting a precedent that anyone can come here without going through the proper channels and be rewarded for it, am pro-deportation.
So, I am fine with what ICE is doing, and I say this having voted democrat since W vs. Gore.
7
I have not heard many poor & young people applying for jobs as maids/domestic help or as delivery men (who do really heavy lifting & dirty jobs) and being turned down. Poor & young working class white people do not apply for jobs with meat slaughter & processing plants, poultry catching operations & processing plants nor do they apply to work long hours in hot sun picking produce from fields. Poor & working age white people want jobs that pay more than minimum wage & have all the benefits of insurance, paid leave, paid vacation, 401(k). You don’t see many young people working in McDonalds. The ones behind the counters are sort of young (late 20s & up) but the ones cleaning bathrooms & floors & windows are the elderly who are close to or past retirement age.
1
Yes, well if employers didn't pay such a low wage, which hurts everyone, normal people would take those jobs.
We have to start somewhere. Get rid of the illegal immigrants. Raise the compensation package of American employees.
Things will start to change.
To understand the Democratic positions, you have to look at the Democratic Party charters.
They are based on strict identity quotas.
Must be 50 per cent men and women etc in delegates.
The positions taken flow from that and divergent (mainstream views) are inexorably driven out.
Trump is correct in his forecast. Unfortunately.
5
He's right. All the Republicans have to do is run video of the more radical versions of the views of the "Abolish ICE" supporters, and they gain a couple million votes this November. The left is not helping the Democrats to win seats in the US Congress. "Abolish ICE" plays well in a handful of congressional districts. It hurts the Democrats in all the other districts. The left is just making itself happy at the expense of the Democratic Party.
4
ICE needs to be fixed and stopped from being the president's own personal security force. We need to create legal avenues to enter the US with effective inspections and screening practices, fair proceedings with more judges available to process cases, and then strategies that crack down on criminal smugglers. Our visa policies need to match employer demand in the US that can provide a path to permanent residency over time. Those in the DACA program should be provided by law to have a positive path to citizenship. We have fundamentally benefited by being a nation of immigrants and all those who enter the United States must be treated humanely.
3
Sans historical context, the idea of abolishing any government agency seems like a bad idea, even though Republicans do it way more than Democrats. But we also have to understand that ICE is not that old, and was brought under what is now considered a disastrous administration. It's not like liberal Democrats are calling for open borders, or for no immigration and customs enforcement. They're calling for a different approach. You can't have ICE and also have a humane border strategy--the two are incompatible. I mean come on, doesn't anyone think it's a little telling that Trump, who seems to hate federal agencies on principle, just loves ICE? It's not a good organization and its time has come.
This confirms that Democrats are rudderless. They are so desperate to find the road to winning that they glaum onto anything that creates a small stir in the winds of change. Cortez is indeed refreshing and, as part of her DSP platform, she's talked about ICE and awakened a glimmer of hope in the stale old Democratic party.
But making immigration their frontrunner issue is not a smart strategy for the national party. The reason Cortez's message works for her is because it's her personal truth and it represents her constituents. That doesn't mean it translates with a hasty broad stroke across the nation. I hope one day DSP values become more mainstream, but we are far from that place at the moment.
The reason Republicans have done so well for decades is the message they've honed to a fine point, the clarity of their strategy and brand (ie, base) building. They have a message, which they have refined to the minutiae. Their path is straight. Democrats have only one issue: immigration. Everything else fades into vagaries and an eager willingness to compromise.
6
Reforming ICE and hiring more judges are not mutually exclusive. Both need to be part of a sensible reform of our immigration laws. While he wields a broad tar brush over immigrants, the truth is we need them to do work we won't. One part of this reform has to be moving visa-granting as far as practicable from our borders. Our failure to have done this is largely responsible for the chaos along it.
1
I'm actually more confused about this issue now.
First, I do feel like this will be a point where Republicans will be able to rally sympathetic voters using fear. Donald Trump will be accessing foreign actor networks, as he did when elected, to help stoke controversy. If Democratic slogans don't have a solid policy background instead of a symbolic one, it could be disastrous.
In other words, it's one thing to call to "Abolish ICE" if it's for savings or because the agency is doing the same job as another agency, or because it should be restructured. It's another thing entirely if it's just because it's catchy.
I do feel like Donald Trump is making a weird deal out of all of this, and I don't understand why. That's concerning - either he's really happy or really angry, and I still can't tell which. I'm not sure he can either, though.
On the other hand, actually merging with activist groups and gaining their massive wealth of knowledge about lobbying, navigating social media, and new demographics, would really benefit the Democratic Party. Look at the success the Parkland kids had in fighting off the Trump administration; if the Democrats can tap into that, they will be formidable.
I think also working together will allow Democrats to keep safe their most savvy and ranking politicians, while allowing others to come in and rejuvenate the party, without causing another Tea Party. Nobody wants another Tea Party.
Signed,
C the Canadian
1
Here is the problems the democrats have. the minority percent of the party is the loudest. By that i mean the extreme progressive liberals which make up maybe 35% of the party at most are loudest voices in the party and by default become the face of the party. most Americans who are indepedents don't relate to the far left and conservatives are terrified by the far left. When the democratic party is defined by Maxine Waters, Elizabeth Warner, Nancy Pelosi, and Bernie Sanders who are all elite coastal progressive liberals middle America doesn't relate to their viewpoints; we still are a far more conservative country than liberals would like to admit as a whole. Yes, Trump has his antics to, but he does it to garner a certain response which he then manipulates to his advantage. It is by design and these progressive democrats fall for it all the time; they look so angry so vindictive. Who wants that type of person for a leader? Not most the country. Furthermore, they don't have plan to to replace ICE, they are delusional believing their far left social agenda is mainstream, they don't have an economic growth plan ( sorry taxing the rich which really also affects small business is not a growth plan) the only thing they are good at is hating Trump. Well, that is not enough. someone in the party should take the mike away from these angry elitists. Otherwise the party will keep losing.
7
"The president encouraged Democratic candidates to embrace demands to dissolve the agency, saying that doing so would doom the party at the polls. "
Analysis: TRUE
7
Dear Democrats and Leaders of the Party and the Party voters,
Do NOT make the immigration issue and all matters associated with this issue the center piece for the upcoming elections.
There are many of us who are in favor of limiting immigration into our country at THIS point in time.
There are so many other issues that can be used to attack the Republicans and the GOP.
Our main and only goal is to WIN big and to take control of the Congress in its entirety.
Wise up and get down to the real issues:
Wealth and Income Disparity.
Health Care - Single Payer.
Keep our Relationships with Allies Intact.
Avoid War Making.
The Common Good.
Social and Economic Justice.
Keep the Mueller Investigation Intact and Ongoing.
Saving Social Security and Medicare.
Keeping Our Current Postal System/Services Intact
Climate Change and the Environment.
A Fair Tax System.
Money is NOT Speech.
Corporations are NOT people.
Get the Money Out of Government.
The Make-Up of the Supreme Court
Save the Middle Class.
Minimum Wages.
Gun Control.
Remove the Influence of Trump and his Supporters.
Fight Corruption in Government.
Support the FBI and Law Enforcement Agencies.
Avoid a Dictatorship and Fascism.
Add your favorite issue to the above list.
Get Smart and Get Rid of the GOP and its Operatives.
8
Wow, just wow. Does any liberal ever get out of NYC or the West Coast cities and visit the rest of America?
Even the suggestion of eliminating ICE ensures a red wave in fall 2018 and the re-election of Donald Trump in 2020. Here in flyover country, I'm just stunned at how out of touch Democrats are with working class Americans in the Heartland.
And, no, for the last time, we do not oppose immigration. Not in the least. In fact, most of us, including me, want more qualified immigrants, especially highly skilled, educated professionals for our small towns and rural areas!
Our issue, as it always has been, is with unregulated, massive influxes of people who simply refuse to follow the law and go through the process, and walk across the border, cutting in front of those who are waiting in line. That, along with no or little screening for criminals and terrorists.
So, go ahead if you wish, and try and eliminate ICE and top it off with open borders, too. I will assure you that, as Democrats, you will be wandering in the wilderness for the next 200 years.
9
The problem is the that Trump taints everything he is coming in contact to, border enforcement and ICE included.
2
Let’s look at the track record: everything the Bernie left has done for the past 3 years has helped Trump. This isn’t a new thing.
5
This commenter takes a dim view of Gillilbrand's motives in pushing for the abolition of ICE:
"Gillibrand could care less about the 2018 and 2020 elections. All she cares about is being in the running for the nomination. With this plank, she has a head start on the other 30 candidates."
I have no idea what Gillilbrand's motives are, and she did distinguish between ICE and the Border Patrol, which she'd retain. (I'll admit: until this "Abolish ICE!" controversy arose recently, I didn't know they were separate agencies; now I do.)
I'm nevertheless concerned that Democratic leaders haven't taken this opportunity to make clear that they oppose open borders -- which naturally makes me wonder whether they do.
I'm not alone. Many voters remain suspicious. Despite assurances given to us over 30 years ago (when we were shocked to hear that there were 3,000,000 illegal immigrants in the US), very little if anything appears to have been done to curb illegal immigration. We now reportedly have 11,000,000 illegal immigrants (25,000,000, according to one Yale study) -- far more than last time.
No dispute (from me) that Trump has unfairly exploited this "Abolish ICE!" controversy by blurring the distinction between ICE and the Border Patrol. But ... The Democratic Party assures us we need not worry about illegal immigration, and maybe the threat is overstated or even non-existent. But keep in mind that we were told the same thing last time and it turned out not to be true.
5
Democrats and progressives in the media thought they had a winning issue -- a slam dunk, if you will -- against Trump by turning "deportation" and "enforcement" into dirty words. They played up the border issue non-stop daily. It was a "crisis" and "catastrophe" of epic proportions, they claimed, right up there with the Nazis treatment of Jews. Well, guest what? They bet on the wrong horse.
2
I want ICE to be here and successful with US standards.
And I am a democrat.
9
Trump is right. If the Democrats make the abolition of ICE part of their platform, they will lose.
23
This is another great plan for the Dems once again to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this year.
Unfortunately, this is one of the rarest times Trump is actually right, about the proposal of abolishment.
Those who proffer this policy, should reconfigure ICE to make it a more viable operation, to preclude and modify this type of occurrence from happening again.
19
A coherent immigration law that lays out what immigrant workers can and cannot do is imperative.
Congress has failed in this important job. Why? Nobody wants to compromise.
3
Reform ICE not terminate!
Regardless of ultimate “truth” of the dangers or blessings of “open borders”, one thing is transparently evident: liberals BELIEVE in “open borders”, which is a fact that most of them deny whenever asked about it, for fear of the inevitable electoral backlash acknowledging such a belief would entail – in this commenting forum, in just about every forum in which people honestly seek to define true convictions. I’ve even had responders here demand that I cite instances in which liberals have asserted “I believe in open-borders”.
Well, they’re not that dumb.
Very few if any will ever frankly admit to supporting an osmotic process involving hordes of people that seeks an economic equilibrium at continental rather than national expanses – regardless of the devastating effects that would have on the economic prosperity of the wealthier society or societies. These are people who honestly believe that it’s unjust and unacceptable that ANY society be more prosperous than any other, who don’t see culture as a key factor in promoting superior prosperity, indeed who see little if any value to discreet societies at all, and who consequently actively labor to destroy cultural distinctions. They certainly don’t promote the defense of successful cultures.
But anyone who agitates for the abolishment of ICE …
18
… obviously promotes “open-borders”, whether s(he) admits to it or not. ICE has no other purpose but to enforce the laws we’ve fashioned as a people to regulate immigration. Open-borders defenders, our ultimate cultural relativists, can’t assemble the necessary popular support to change our laws … so let’s abolish the enforcers of those laws, and obtain the same end that was never earned in the crucible of representative argument and governance. I find it vastly entertaining that it’s TRUMP who is accused of “authoritarianism”.
Trump is absolutely right: if Republicans can effectively make this manifestly evident point to Americans – which isn’t a tough row to hoe – Democrats will be clobbered in November.
17
So you’ll have one on record, I’m a liberal and I do NOT “believe” in open borders. I want laws and rules, due process, AND humane treatment.
As with anything in nature, when one extreme exists (current state of turning people away without due process; building a wall), the other extreme (abolish ICE) pops up to counterbalance. All life seek homeostasis—nothing else is sustainable.
I don’t think this “eliminate ICE” is a wise strategy for democrats, but I get it. People are raging against the machine.
2
When you oppose every immigration enforcement measure, you are, by definition, opposed to enforcement. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is the very definition of "open borders." They are not fooling anyone.
8
"Lets face it, the only candidate that will beat Trump is a democrat who is male, tall, white ... "
Ben McAdams fits that description. He's running for Congress. in Utah. If he wins, he'll be well-positioned in 2020.
McAdams won't be much of a threat to Trump, of course, unless he wins this November. That will require that he beat the Republican incumbent, Mia Love, a black woman who grew up in Connecticut and moved to Utah as an adult. So far, she's comfortably ahead, but who knows? That could change.
1
Hate to burst your bubble, in the land where passing the hat for green causes like Blarney independence is still a mythical history and all of that Malarkey but after America gets their fill of the liberal McFBI, McIRS scandals et all, may I suggest McAdams use his mom's maiden name on the ballot.
All you people saying Trump is right: you are aware ICE is only 15 years old, correct? There's no reason it shouldn't end in its current form and it wouldn't mean the laws they enforce would no longer be enforced. But good job buying Trump's framing of the issue.
12
"... ICE is only 15 years old ..."
So what? The agency was formed from the law enforcement functions of existing agencies.
Critics of ICE would do better to focus on the number of employees (20,000) and the size of the budget ($7.9 billion).
See the DHS FY 2018 Budget-in-Brief
https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-budget
3
I disagree. The call to abolish ICE does, in fact, have broader scope and purpose - and implications - which most Americans do not want. We are simply warning that this focus is a losing strategy if Democrats want to do well in November.
And if you're concerned about semantics and propaganda, ask yourself why our democratic leaders aren't controlling the narrative better? I've heard your argument, too, from those on the extreme left. "So good job on buying their framing of this issue." Does that kind of snark help? This may be why moderates Democrats feel their party (as a voting population and political organization) do not represent them.
Democratic leaders have been too passive, meek and ineffectual. The only clarity, focus and fight they show is for immigrants. For the past 40 years. Democrats are a large part of the reason we are in this Trump s-storm. Democrats must figure out how to control the narrative so Americans feel they represent them (and not just immigrants). But in-fighting isn't helping.
3
@sedanchair. I understand that ICE was created after 9/11 and that perhaps it needs updating and I still say Trump is right. He is right in that it's a losing strategy for Dems to run around and say "Abolish ICE!"
Of about a gzillion issues to appeal to voters on, abolishing ICE is the rallying cry?! Good job of not seeing the forest for the trees.
3
99% of Dems are not calling to abolish ICE. Trump wants you to believe that's what they want and the media reports on it to fuel clicks. Why do people fall for this misinformation? Has anyone learned anything in the last two years?
42
Yes, they've changed from "abolish" to "change" and "reform". Not fooling anyone. No plan. Just opposition. The same problem democrats have with most issues today.
3
An excellent point. Trump depends on lies and distortion of reality. He is disconnected from reality. He has told more than 3200 documented lies to the public since he was handed the Oval Office via a highly questionable election. Propaganda is also a lesson he learned from his favorite dictators.
This is another distraction & lie used by trump. And it’s working.
1
Never thought I'd say this, but Trump is correct. Attempts to abolish ICE will push more moderates right... as will attempts to give ongoing mass amnesty or continuing the current anarchy at the border and lax immigration practices.
Please don't isn't be stupid, Democrats. Please focus on America and Americans. Now is not the time to fight the immigration battle. Americans want single payer health care, they want jobs and benefits, living wages and equality, safe food and drinking water, public school and public infrastructure works, they want the wealthy to pay their share of taxes, they a want consumer protections and net neutrality, they want campaign finance reform and fair elections....
But this is not the time for expanding immigration. We are not even taking care of our own citizens. Let's get our nation back into the hands of sane, competent, intelligent leaders. Let's get our nation back on its feet. Then sometime in the future we can start focusing on helping other nations again. But we will lose in 2018 and 2020 if Democrats make this their loudest (and only) issue.
44
Democrats continue to prove themselves as extremists who refuse to do what's necessary to end illegal immigration. That has been obvious for decades. At least to those who've paid attention and accept the truth. The only thing that has changed is their willingness to come out of the closet and admit it. They now say publicly what their most recent nominee for the presidency only would privately. They put illegal aliens before actual citizens and the politics of appeasing a constituency (Hispanics) they depend on to be competitive in elections above our laws, security and sovereignty. It's disgraceful, pathetic and sad what they've become. The entire Democratic Party deserves to stay in the minority until their insane positions change. If not, they can stay there permanently.
Democrats have repeatedly demonstrated to the public why another round of comprehensive immigration reform is impossible and shouldn't even be considered. They have zero desire to enforce the laws and fix what got us in this situation in the first place. The only thing they care about is amnesty every couple decades for those here illegally. These types of issues require trust and they've done about everything possible to not earn it. So be it. May they pay the price for it on every election day from here on out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/politics/hillary-clinton-speeches-...
31
From what I've seen it's not the Democrats who are scuttling immigration reform. It is the head of the Republican Party who is also the president of the United States. In case you have not kept up on your reading, the last bipartisan attempt at immigration reform was roundly defeated by Trump. I think what is "disgraceful" is a man and the party he leads who are both bent on finding absolutely NO common ground to deal with any issue that faces the United States today. They will be the undoing of this democracy, not the Democrats, who aren't even in power. If you have problems regarding immigration reform and the lack of it you need to take it up with your congressman/woman in Wisconsin who so very obviously not working on it.
This strikes me as an absurd and poorly informed rant. Certainly “Democrats” do care about illegal immigration and enforcement of laws against hiring undocumented workers. They come here because there are jobs and employers who are willing to hire them. Where is the enforcement of that practice?
1
@hmsmith0: As I already said, passing comprehensive immigration reform with Democrats is impossible. They promised us 32 years ago that amnesty was a one time deal and that it would never happen again due to enhanced border security measures and sanctions on employers. The results? We went from 5 million illegal aliens then to 11-20 million today. The law was conveniently and purposely not enforced. Now they want us to trust them with another round of this insanity after allowing the problem to possibly quadruple? Forget that. The only thing that Democrats care about is granting a path to citizenship to those who've broken the law. They have no desire to pass anything with strong enforcement measures because that would infuriate Hispanic voters who they're dependent on to compete in elections. History has repeatedly proven that rewarding illegal immigration only results in more of it. Any policies that go in that direction belong immediately and strongly rejected.
Democrats against ICE is just a small group.
But it is vocal and cohesive.
Gillibrand could care less about the 2018 and 2020 elections.
All she cares about is being in the running for the nomination.
With this plank, she has a head start on the other 30 candidates.
8
Oh woe. The democrats have walked right into the spider web.
27
In the beginning,
there was faith, which is childish;
trust, which is vain;
and illusion, which is dangerous.
Elie Wiesel "Night"
#NeverAgain2018
#StopFascism2018
#VoteBlue2018
November 6, 2018
11
The GOP and Trump in particular are trying to focus the country's attention on issues that affect and that ostensibly could benefit the US directly, to the exclusion of all else. I think most of us, though, continue to think of our nation as a world leader. A big problem with ICE under this administration is that it aggressively enforces our increasing isolation. It would be helpful if our news organizations started to think more of the Americas as genuinely one, since that's what we're fast becoming anyway, and took developments in this hemisphere, including in such hot spots such as El Salvador and Guatemala, as seriously in their reporting as those in the US, Europe, and Canada. What's happening in Guatemala? Who are the players? What are they doing? What's the historical context? I have heard so much more about Syria and even Yemen lately than I have ever heard about El Salvador or even Mexico. How can we empathize with Central American refugees if they are always portrayed as coming from some other, totally unrelated world? They really aren't foreign, we've been living with them in large numbers for decades and they're all over the place. So ICE's hardball is incongruous, but it's just a symptom of the underlying problem: a narrow, racist, political minority has taken us hostage and led us down crazy paths we don't want to travel. Let's focus on that. Part of the antidote is more attention to where so many of our people are coming in from.
5
Try this on for size: “You get rid of TRUMP, you’re going to have a country that you’re going to love and be able to walk out of your house without fear of ICE”.
8
Not to rain on your parade, Gary, but I walk out of my house every morning without fear of ICE.
3
Would anyone else find it helpful if the Times offered a primer on the difference between ICE and U.S. Border Patrol? What are their missions? Have those missions evolved over time? How are they distinct? How do they overlap? What are their histories?
To paraphrase Elvis: a little less conversation, a little more education, please.
29
Those in favor of eliminating ICE should explain how criminal aliens will be dealt with and how we will be secure against gangsters human traffickers etc.
Under current leadership ICE tactics are inhumane and counterproductive. Retired Caribbean women are easy for ICE agents to arrest for sure. But for what are we deporting old women who helped our economy go during their many working years?
3
Any CEO, and certainly any president who ran a TV show specializing in reviewing and rating the performance of their employees, would, without a doubt, say "You're fired" to a department that lost 2,000 customers - never mind children and babies - and couldn't locate them within minutes.
Like Ocasio-Cortez clearly said - of course there needs to be logical immigration laws and a just entity to manage the immigration process- but this institution of storm troopers who joke that the screams of crying babies needs "a conductor" - and lacks the basic management information systems that even a small business has, is not equipped morally or technologically to handle the job that they have been entrusted with.
14
Trump reversed the short-lived policy to separate the children from the adults, yet the Democrats still protest and the news still covers the issue.
Trump re-calibrated after the negative press but the Democrats have not recalibrated at all – they have declared many sanctuary cities and at least one state. As if this were not enough, they now talk of abolishing ICE. When the Democrats start to care more about citizens than non-citizens, they may have a chance to win elections. Hedging their bets on noncitizens over citizens is a losing strategy for sure.
28
Philly, you’ve be relieved to know that Malibu has declared itself a sanctuary city. It was easier for Barbara Streisand to do that then clean her own beachfront deck. Those seagulls can really do a number on Sunbrella fabric, that’s for sure.
13
Trump can write all the Executive Orders he wants and display them like a five-year-old to his adoring sycophants. The fact is that there are still over 2,000 children still separated from their parents. The agency who was in charge was so incompetent they kept no records and basically has no way to reunite these families. These people in most cases asked for asylum which is legal. ICE in many cases abused its power in refusing allow people entry for asylum. The Trump administration has used this agency for its very cruel and inhuman policies. This whole sorry episode will go down as a very dark mark in our country's history. We are better than this.
Trump has said a lot of things, most of which are exaggerations or lies. Why believe him on this matter? Most organizations or agencies can be improved. But we have a choice to use a meat cleaver or a scalpel, our brains or our emotions. Trump knows how to incite people---to goad them into thoughts and actions that are not their own. That is why he is called a con man. He is good at it, but we can be better.
7
National security will always take top billing in every election over all other issues.
Immigration is the most immediate path to failure for Democrats. Keep hugging and embracing illegal aliens, advocating open borders and pushing for the abolishment of ICE and you can watch your chosen candidates get flushed down the toilet on Election Day....
It is what it is.
24
Susan Sarandon wants open borders. Who knows what crazy Maxine wants except chaos. But, Merkel almost lost her job and now she doesn’t want open borders.
DNC is playing with fire and will be badly burned at the polls for calling for abolishing border control and anarchy.
48
Susan Sarandon is an elected official?
And FYI, ICE didn't exist until less than 20 years ago, and I don't remember open borders or anarchy reigning. Do you?
1
The best solution to flawed set of laws immigration is not dispensing with rule of law immigration, it is getting rid of the flaws.
As a citizen, I want immigrants who will give back more than they take particularly financially, speak the language after a period of time, and be crime free for five yours or face automatic deportation. They should also accept our core freedoms including religious freedom, that only the government can use force in the name of justice, and that only our secular laws applies.
In my view, we do not need to give candidate immigrants the same welfare benefits as citizens. What is important is that they feel they have a better life than they left, or return to their home country if they don't. We should not be a welfare system for the world.
Note refugees, are course would be treated differently. We take them to protect them from persecution, whether or not they are able to be self sufficient.
18
Lets face it, the only candidate that will beat Trump is a democrat who is male, tall, white, with some military background (no heel spurs please ) and has a vocabulary that is about 120 English words.
Show me that candidate and I will show you the next POTUS.
4
I.C.E. just needs some time to cool off--how about eternity?
5
Trump is right. Who in her right mind would suggest, as the Senator from New York has, that ICE be abolished at a time when migration at the southern Border and pressure for enforcement are peaking. So a complex process should stop while the government re-organizes its immigration control? This is an empty shriek of political madness by Democrats who seem to need to self-annihilate in public.
81
The problem is the leftwing of the Democratic Party. The party needs them angry and energized enough to vote, yet their positions are often out of step with the majority of Americans. Democrats cling to their old tactics at their own peril. They always seem to be fighting the last political battle.
1
Democrats don't want a wall, ICE or borders. They are the Open Borders party. They can fund the safety net for all of the illegal immigration with higher taxes paid for by citizens. Eventually the citizens will buckle and agree to citizenship and the vote for illegal immigrants, cementing Democratic rule for decades. Taxpayers just need to learn to be more empathetic. All of the world's ills and bad choices can be corrected with a little more empathy and lot more of other people's money!
27
This seems like a paranoid delusion stirred up by mis-characterizations of actual policies and practices of the previous administration. Obama enforced immigration laws - and did so in a humane way. No one in the Democratic leadership is calling for open borders. If anything, they would have more effective border security and enforcement of laws against hiring undocumented workers.
The separating of families at the border has been going on for years. Obama separated far more families than trump has so far. That’s the reason obama has been so silent on the issue. He knows he is more guilty than trump. The lefts hypocrisy knows no limits. They didn’t care about what was happening at the border until a republican was president.
41
Not true. Only Trump put in a policy of taking children as young as six months from their parents. Then the agency didn't even track the children so their incompetence has created more orphaned kids needing refuge. That is why people are upset.
10
Totally false. Only serious criminals were separated when they were incarcerated during the Obama administration.
So what Democrats want to abolish ICE?
This is just more propaganda chum he's tossed to his blood-thirsty base. He sits back and laughs, making up lies and strawman, then watching people argue. No different than his obsession with reality television. Don't participate in his using people for his entertainment, like Roman emperors used the Colusseum.
First verify the chronic and inflammatory accusations and toxic lies that never stop rolling off of his long forked tongue.
8
Gillibrand, Ocasio-Cortez, De-Blasio, to name a few..
Great campaign issue - provided voting is done on twitter. Inside the voting booth, well - kids don't fool anyone. Border interviews tell the story: poor, dependent, freeloading and dishonest migrants here for welfare and employment. Democrats are handing Trump Congress and 2020.
31
Migrants here for welfare? Where did that come from? You heard it from Hannity or Carlson? The illegal immigrants aren't eligible for welfare, even legal immigrants are not eligible for almost all forms of public assistance until they become US citizens.
15
“Freeloading” and here for “employment”—so, which one is it?
11
Most welfare benefits allow (some) income. In fact, here in Arizona, 2 person household can earn 1.8K/month (after deductions) and qualify for SNAP, Medicaid (for children), *refundable* tax credits, formula, maternity care, and medical care for fatal disease like Cancer. In some states *all kids* are Medicaid eligible.
Then we can go to education - are the schools good in Honduras Emb? Pretty good incentive for illegals, no? Oh, and free school lunch.
So yes, freeloading.
2
This “Trump-finition” of the Democratic position on immigration as “open borders” has the power to damage the message of the Democratic Party as badly as the labels “pro-abortion” or “abortion advocate” while casting the Republican platform as “pro-life”. What a bunch of hogwash and deception. We can NOT let that happen!!!
16
Trump and his enablers are acting like white nationalists in full war cry this year. History has seen this before, the1930s fascist European brownshirts and blackshirts were all about national security too, keeping out foreign deplorables.
Real progressive Democrats would call for open North American borders where Americans could move and emigrate just as freely to Canada and Mexico as our southern neighbors have migrated here post WWII. Paperless borders, with freedom of movement cross borders like the original European Union proposed and realized. It's all about more freedom for all.
Today's Trumpenistas it appears yearn for the good old cold war days of the McCarthyite 1950s, walls, barbed wire, no man's land and armed border guards! What's happened to our USA George Bush I and Mikael Gorbachev, someone's scuppered all the good work you did back in the 1980s to open things up!
Iron curtains are so Eastern European human rights violating post WWII- the 1950s-1970s. Progress is moving toward more rights, freedoms and cross border movement for all, not less.
8
Thank you for having the honesty to say you are for open borders.
20
Just as I feared, opened borders, free movement of people unrestricted; no functioning government, then I say you make Trump seem appealing.
Trump 2020!
22
I am a proud to say I am a strong progressive Democrat - and I do not support open borders.
4
Trump is right. If the Democrats persist in creating the impression that they support, or if they actually do support, totally open borders, a policy tantamount to the dissolution of all countries, they really will never win another election. The Democrats need to wake up and realize that, unlike them, the majority of the country is not living in a John Lennon song.
91
Tne Dem's always seem to know how to shoot themselves in the foot. Kennedy gave Trump the Red Meat to energize the base and now the Dem's are serving the side dish. Instead of coming out with a winning message they find things that motivate Trump's base. The full court press should on to motivate people to come out to vote to try stop more Trump appointees to the courts. It is only a matter of time before they,the Dem's find away to bring Confederate Statues back to the headlines Those who fail to remember are doomed to repeat. The Dem's have ;earned nothing since 2016.The Dem's have lost any kind of viability as the party of opposition.
20
This shouldn't be about winning and losing political games. It should be about people's lives, empathy, and humanity.
Under Trump, the USA has become a fear filled, shameful, dystopia. Trump's USA is a greedy, bully nation. Sad. So sad.
7
Not enforcing our immigration laws attracts even more illegal aliens. If we had effective enforcement the gangs could not sell their smuggling services. Calling for the abolition of ICE and arguing that illegal aliens are an overall benefit for the country is tantamount to demanding open borders while giving the human trafficking business a real boost. Yet that is exactly what the "progressive" wing of the Democratic Party apparently wants, and the moderate Democrats, if there are any, haven't the courage to oppose such foolishness. The red wave is coming, perhaps even at least a red ripple in California.
29
The media and democrats routinely ignore "moral hazard", which caused 68,000 unaccompanied minors to flood our borders under Obama. The media's coverage of that tragedy was scant. Compare it to the fixation with immigrant children now. It barely bothered to investigate where all those kids went. Now one 15-year-old walks out of a shelter, and a NYT article is devoted to it.
He says a lot of things that are not true and this may well be the latest. Supposedly 70% of Americans want immigration. If so they are not so happy with ICE, or at least as they have become under Trump...
3
Legal immigration, not border crashers. Controlled and limited immigration is what most Americans want.
42
For Pete’s sake Democrats, clarify your language! This is how Hilary got painted as saying that coal miners were going to lose their jobs instead of what she really said which was that the govt needed to do something to help people who were going to lose their jobs. How can we keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? For once Trump is right. If Dems get connected to this “open borders” lie, they will lose for sure. Don’t let reconstructing ICE equal open borders!
75
Until the Democrats are willing to honestly address immigration that breaks current law rather than using gaslighting terms like “undocumented” immigrants, the claim they are for "open borders" will stick.
From a "marketing" point of view, Trump is correct that rhetoric about abolishing ICE will re-elect him.
31
Honeybee, Hillary’s quote is out of context. So, here ya go: “I’m the only candidate who has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right, Tim? [Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) was in the audience.]
And we’re going to make it clear that we don’t want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories. Now we’ve got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don’t want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce energy that we relied on.”
Yeah, wow. What a terrible person...
Read some of the comments here. A segment of Dems really wants open borders. The only way we can have a community with benefits is to have solid borders. The pro-illegal Dems are killing the party and its worthy goals.
Trump wants to confuse everyone into thinking that eliminating ICE means open borders. He wants to distract from the cruel policies of ICE that destroy hard-working families and the lost children
The obsession with Trump's marketing instead of substance is what helped to get this petty self-indulgent uninformed bully into the White House.
Instead of repeating Trump's marketing, we should be focused on the agents who are laser focused on smuggling and are upset with the distraction and resources wasted on ripping apart loving families.
"In a letter to the homeland security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, the 19 agents express concern that Donald Trump’s hardline crackdown on undocumented migrants has made it harder for them to conduct effective investigations into significant national security issues."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/ice-abolish-letter-agent...
7
Trump is winning the propaganda war. He's a master of the con game. Democrats we have to fight his con game with intelligence and our own propaganda. Voters are not looking for facts. The evil Republicans have made facts secondary. Facts are necessary when used correctly, but not as a lead in to policy discussions.
7
Nancy Pelosi needs to articulate a five point plan to make the border safer and the asylum process saner. We cannot let the liar in chief define our goals for the American people.
21
Nancy Pelosi is all in for uncontrolled illegal immigration; she is leader of California crazy; she and Schumer shut down the government to protect her “beautiful dreamers. “
Democratic Party has gone Trump mania off the cliff unreasonable.
12
Five point plans do not effectively combat two word slogans. Head to head: Build the Wall vs what? Open Borders? A five point plan? I’d go with Strong and Sane borders.
Where in the world do people get such ideas? Must be a propaganda machine. I am reminded that people who watch Fox News are more poorly informed than those who watch no news at all.
ICE is not the problem. Trump and his slavish GOP are the problem. ICE did not order separation of families. ICE didn't try to do in Obamacare (and soon Medicare and Social Security - just watch) while giving away $1.5 trillion tax dollars mostly to corporations and billionaires. ICE did not give up on our environment to promote coal and other fossil fuels when clean energy is cheaper. ICE did not conduct a frontal assault on unions and blow up our system of campaign finance laws.
Get smart Democratic politicians or you will squander your opportunity to turn things around.
15
I love it. The left is so out of touch vis a vis this call to abolish ICE. Forget the midterms. They won't be able to get elected as dog catcher.
41
Heh! You can always depend on the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Every country in the world tries to control its borders through immigration law. And for good and obvious reasons. Letting anyone and everyone walk in without at least knowing who they are is preposterous on its face. It’s an invitation to eventual disaster. And what’s more, everyone, no matter what party they are in, knows that a country MUST have control of its borders.
The dems are a self destructive sort!!
38
“I guarantee you everybody that ever bought a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump,”
Past performance is no guarantee of future results—especially when Harley lays off workers and their motorcycles become ever more expensive.
7
I assume this is meant to bait liberals into doubling-down on the calls to abolish ICE. I mean, Trump won't actually go so far as to to point out to democrats that they probably are making a mistake, right?
7
Enough about ICE. We want to help people suffering and in need and we have laws. Give to Caesar that which is Caeser’s. Democrats can cry all they want to about what’s fair, so make it fair and shut up in the mean time.
9
I see from these comments that many many liberals think taking the Donald's advice on how the Democratic party should run in elections is a good idea. Amazing. How can you both believe that the man is pure evil installed in office by PUTIN (tm), and then argue that we should meet his racist immigration policies half way?
5
The problem is not ICE itself. The problem is the policy maker himself. Abolish ICE and he will have some other agency do exactly the same thing. Talk of abolishing ICE doesn't help Democrats nationally.
8
There is a problem with ICE itself, which was a somewhat rogue, brutal agency during the Obama administration. The culture at ICE needs to change.
4
So ICE needs to be constrained and reformed. I am surprised that Dem pols would use the term "abolish", as it implies open borders and no immigration enforcement, which wouldn't and couldn't be supported by most voters, and would create a perception that Dems are divorced from reality. Mentioning "abolition" of ICE is a clear political loser, Trump is right about that.
8
And replace ICE with what? Nothing? We shouldn’t touch this right now. This is a black hole that will suck all of us Democrats into it.
Wow. Reading these comments from so called educated people is dismaying and frightening. There are many problems with illegal border crossing but Undocumented people aren’t taking your jobs, taking your services, taking really anything away from you. Stop believing outright xenophobic lies designed to stir your fear. Immigrants who are here illegally work more for less, pay taxes, commit less crime, and all the while use much less services than they are entitled to. It’s a bargain for America
None of what this President says is true about this crisis. If you believe any these lies you are engaging in bigoted and lazy thinking.
Has Trump ‘Watched ICE Liberate Towns From the Grasp of MS-13’? https://nyti.ms/2KDvjwL?smid=nytcore-ios-share
12
I want our laws obeyed or, if unjust, to be lawfully changed -- but simply ignoring them damages the rule of law. You can't convince me that willful ignoring of our immigration laws hadn't made it easier for Trump to ignore or undermine laws his base doesn't like. The argument that open immigration may economically be a net positive may have substance, but it is besides the point. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a bigot is both wrong and counter-productive. The "deplorables" meme arguably gave us Trump. Don't let "abolish ICE" give him to us again.
14
Referring to people as "so-called educated" or "engaging in bigoted and lazy thinking" because they disagree with you is just diplomatic Trump/tyranny 101 tactics. Attack the source. How is that any different from the president saying "well, he's a loser" or whatever he says when anyone criticizes him? You know all those people in the "square states" or "flyover country?" This might be what they mean when they talk about coastal elitists talking down to them. Counter-productive.
3
Whatever he says, the opposite is true.
13
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
Abolish ICE as a central tenet? Are they nuts? That is the most esoteric, wonky East Coast liberal theme I can imagine! Save the unborn baby whales!
Jobs.
Better Pay.
Save the wilderness while advancing energy policy and creating jobs. (Figure it out later, just say it now.)
Women's choice.
Reduce the expanding deficit while keeping taxes low (again. figure it out later.)
Reunite every asylum seeking kid with his/her mom and dad.
Jeez, don't you know how the game is played? These [expletive deleted] Repubs lie like rugs. Better together? See how well that worked for Hillary?
9
It's a made-up theme - more Republican propaganda.
6
From the NYT:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in the primary for New York’s 14th Congressional District. Ocasio-Cortez, making her first run for office, had made “abolish ICE” a centerpiece of her campaign, with bilingual “Abolish ICE/Elimina Ice” posters appearing in shop windows across Queens and the Bronx.
6
The democrats are shooting themselves in the foot, and the left is claiming the republicans are holding the gun. What next? The GOP put a gun to the democrats' head and forced them to take an unpopular stand on immigration? The public didn't buy it when Obama used this excuse and certainly aren't going to accept it now.
Thanks for using Trump's talking point against Dems, as if all Dems said this. I have heard no one say Abolish Ice except Trump.
Meanwhile why are Owners and Executives who use 'illegal' immigrants never mentioned, or fined?
Got any other Trump lies you want to smear people with? Democrats are socialists? Democrats are 'leftists'. Democrats are unpatriotic?
I am so tired of the media letting Trump's lies dominate their headlines as if they were some kind of gospel.
16
From the NYT
"Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in the primary for New York’s 14th Congressional District. Ocasio-Cortez, making her first run for office, had made “abolish ICE” a centerpiece of her campaign, with bilingual “Abolish ICE/Elimina Ice” posters appearing in shop windows across Queens and the Bronx."
7
Yes, yes. A Bernie supporter. A small election. Hardly represents the entire party.
yes, we know, that means that 167m people agree with her. Said no one. Ever.
And Mexico will pay for it.
6
Just know this and keep it in your heart..........No matter what stupid says, it is a lie and it always will be. That will never change,
whether it is about I.C.E., North Korea, the economy etc. etc. He just says it to satisfy his base which was dumb enough to vote for him in the first place.
16
When people stop sneaking into the country we won't need ICE.
33
After yesterday’s Times reporting, maybe they should be going after all the friends and relatives here who are coordinating and paying for the coyotes to smuggle them in. Anyone driving the getaway car goes to jail as well for the bank heist, no? Yesterday’s belated reporting on the perilous journey up here was sobering as well as appalling to read how America is considered by many as simply for their taking.
16
Lets deal harshly with those who HIRE illegal immigrants. Problem solved.
He's not right about much, ever, but I suspect he may be right about this. He actually may be smarter than the Dems when it comes to knowing how to get the vote out come election day. Undeniably, he's beaten them on this ground before.
Never underestimate the uncanny Democrat capacity to shoot themselves in the foot...
36
And he's right.. Democrats are doomed. As Trump and Republicans move ahead on their agendas, consolidate power, shape the Supreme Court, & shape the conversation, and shape the country..... Democrats are calling for the abolition of ICE.. ---Really..?? That's their rallying cry for November..'Let's abolish ICE..!' ...---...Doomed
50
Abolition of ICE is not the position of the party leadership. Mostly, you hear it from candidates on the campaign trail. Candidates regularly speak from the heart and call for changes that touch an emotion.
With all the attention to family separation, there is an energy against overly aggressive enforcement of immigration laws. But what works on the campaign trail does not work in Washington. Immigration enforcement is a complicated matter. And Trump is taking a campaign issue to attempt to exploit it to overcome the travesty of family separation.
How does the Democratic Party respond when Trump paints them with a view that is tangential? Who can go on an interview show lay out the position of the party and get headlines? Pelosi is too unpopular, and too sympathetic to illegals. Schumer has experience negotiating the ins and outs of immigration policy. I don't know what the guy has been doing. But it would be a good time for him to become the Democrat's public face on immigration, reminding the public just how much damage child separation has done, and assuring that the Democrats have always believed in deporting criminal illegals.
7
ICE? Dysfunctional.
Trump? Dysfunctional.
Hope? Functioning.
Impeachment? Hope.
3
Oh great. With that 'winning' abolish ICE message, the GOP won't even have to spend any money on campaigning.
Between this and the protests for illegals, it's a slam dunk for Trump. Thanks Dems!
31
IMHO - Not looking for any replies
ICE implements policy and as dysfunctional as it may be, deal with the policy first. Suspend or put ICE activities on hold, otherwise we are going about it backwards.
I am (laughing to myself) an “elite” according to DJTs base, though
you wouldn’t know it from my lifestyle or financial resources
I'm third generation of a vote straight down the line Dem family except – sigh – for my sister of late
I am probably myopic about it, but this the baby and bathwater.
I cringe when those I align with politically fall for the bait of the POTUS every time.
It’s exhausting and a set-up for backlash.
Let's become smarter mice and stop going down that row in the maze, 'cause the dude keeps moving the cheese.
Sometimes there is a need to go covert – especially in our hyper news cycle environment.
Grass roots movements have served the right, along with playing the long game and dirty tricks.
To reverse this slow-moving coup we need to come up with a better/best practices version of strategies and tactics where some ground can be regained, getting this country back to balance and dialogue instead of demagoguery.
There are enough resources and opportunities in this country to go around if we have the will.
I'm afraid if the left goes too far to the extreme, we will end up with enough blame to go around instead.
We need really good poker players in the political arena, on the progressive side.
As was mentioned recently in the NYT, don’t feed the troll.
5
Democrats should be calling for a rational, reasonable, humane plan to limit illegal immigration at the border. Not only aren’t they doing this, but they want to eliminate the border entirely! Knee-jerk reactions to counter Donald Trump are not policy. Come up with a PLAN. The current optics are awful - an out of touch Democratic Party that cares more about illegal immigrants than fellow Americans.
42
Besides the fact that abolishing ICE is a loosing strategy, I'd like the reader to think for a minute:
if seasoned politicians like Senator Gillibrand, Pramila Jayagopal are asking to do away with a government agency who's job is to ENFORCE the law, then why do we even have those laws?
Do Democrats want open borders?
Are illegal aliens that much a priority that the average suffering American Citizen is now a second class priority for the Dems?
39
ICE hasn’t been around all that long. We can approach this problem in a better way.
3
Please do a moment's research. No we don't want open borders, that's why we have U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, which has been around since 1924. The purpose of ICE, which was established after 9/11, was to go after dangerous criminals and terrorists. They have lost sight of that mission, leading to many current ICE agents to call for its abolishment, and a new, smaller, targeted group to be created in its stead.
7
We live now in the world of 24 hour advertising. Whatever the real mission of ICE is or was, it has now become the symbol of keeping out immigrants who are not authorized to be here. So calling for it's "abolishment" rather than "reform" is calling for letting migrants who are not authorized in. Trump is a cruel sadistic sociopath, but he's a very talented marketer -- and, in this rarecinstance, he's saying something true.
5
As a Truly Radical Centrist, I have zero tolerance for open borders for innumerable reasons, starting with the fact that the very concept is an oxymoron, is contrary to natural law, is among the delusions shared by both the left and the right (see under "free" markets) and so forth. Of course he who shall not be named screws up everything in brutal stupid fashion, and thus even a sensible policy becomes indefensible. But the key, fundamental mega-fact that compels non-open borders is the gross overpopulation of the U.S. and all other countries on this planet, which fact is denied by almost everyone except when the indirect effects slap them in the face...later but inevitably. Across the conventional political spectrum, a huge proportion of the public has various nonsensical notions which rationalize lying to themselves about all of this (especially the over-population). And each and every one of those denialistic "reasons" is easily refuted, many with just a single sentence. But, in reference to this particular aspect of these issues, it would be a disaster for Democrats to push for abolition of ICE, for the reasons he who shall not be named has indicated.
23
ICE is a relatively new organization and it has become a weapon of this administration to terrorize, silence and inflict suffering on people of color. The US did not have ICE in 1990s, when undocumented immigration was higher, yet the 1990s saw record low levels of crime. Trump's "immigration = violent, terrible crime" rhetoric is simply false, and the media must continuously remind people of the facts: immigrants, documented and undocumented, commit fewer crimes than US citizens. Immigration does not equal crime. Repeat: immigration does not equal an increase in crime. What does increase the power of criminal cartels is the zero-tolerance policies and militarization of the US-Mexico border, making the smuggling of desperate people very lucrative.
11
If the Democrats let the lunatic Left Wing Fringe set the agenda and or determine the message for the midterms or for the '20 General - We're going to get SMOKED at the polls
The ONLY thing the Left Wing Fringe has ever done for Democrats is to cost them elections.
Get OFF the idiotic idea of abolishing ICE and get back to Reality.
Here's the commercial/political ad EVERY Dem should be running from now until NOV.
A small child sits in the middle of a Cold Looking Concrete Floor... He/she is sobbing - The camera starts to pull back(zoom out) - Suddenly a Jail Door shuts and the kid is softly crying MOMMIE.... MOMMIE...
V.O. This is Donald Trump's America
Is it YOUR AMERICA?
Mommie....
V.O. Nov 6th Please vote for...
Just that simple
9
You really think that's going to be the priority for the economically distressed voters that the Dems are hoping to get? Well, at least they won't have to come up with a plan for jobs and wages and healthcare and other similarly irrelevant issues.
15
He is absolutely right. Dems calling for even a change in ICE, no matter how well-intentioned or well-planned, are playing right into his hands. Yes, it has to be changed but that should have been saved until after the election.
stupid,stupid,stupid.
You just gave the dictator his army.
28
Everything plays into his hands, according to Trump. So, really, Democrats need only appeal to voters who will vote for them, and forget about Trump voters. It's about turnout.
4
The swing voters in 2016 were the people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 that Hillary insulted by calling them racists. Too bad for the Democrats that the Trump economy is convincing them they made the right choice.
It's a sad commentary on the state of the county when Trump thinks his policy of caging families on military bases for indeterminate periods is a political winner. He can't be right, can he?
6
Trump is going to win this one. ICE consists of people who are hard working blue collar kind of folks. Keep it up, Dems. Walk Away movement keeps growing.
24
ICE agents have called for its abolition and the creation of a smaller agency that gets back to its mandated mission--going after dangerous criminals and terrorists.
3
Democrats have the advantage in the media to blast their platform especially since coverage of Trump on non-Fox News networks has been almost universally negative. They can easily squander this opportunity without a clear message of what they stand for.
Where are those dynamic charismatic spokespeople to energize the base on every cable news show through interviews, commentaries and panels. Clone Cory Booker! The Warrens and Pelosis can step aside. As shallow as it may seem likeability, humor and passion count.
The Democrats also need to sing out of the same hymn book with a cohesive message (not like the ICE fiasco) that will resonate with voters in the heartland, the Rust Belt and the Midwest, especially those who crossed over from Obama to Trump in 2016.
Trump certainly knew how to use the media every night of his campaign since he came down that elevator in 2015. He didn't have to elaborate on policies. He got his message across to his supporters in simple sound bites and Twitter. And he didn't even have to fundraise to do so. He continues this brilliant marketing strategy in his presidency locking in Fox as his mouthpiece for propaganda.
DNC, step up your game and communicate to us if you want to get out the vote in 2018. You still have four short months to get us on board with a simple message the majority of us can enthusiastically support.Talking points would be fine. We don't need analytical white papers. Trump voters didn't.
4
"Where are those dynamic charismatic spokespeople to energize the base on every cable news show through interviews, commentaries and panels. Clone Cory Booker! "
I fear you may be right. He's just way too corporate for me, but i just can't help liking the guy. Irritates me no end.
What's not likable about Elizabeth Warren? She's has passion and humor and energizes the base. Interesting that you name two women who must step aside for not being likable enough, but have no problem with corporate Booker.
5
He came down an escalator! And I voted for the guy. At least he loves this country. Democrats just want to give it away to illegals
5
I never thought I would agree with our vicious Clown-President on anything. If he said the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning, I would look to the west. HOWEVER, he is right that abolishing ICE is a losing issue for us Democrats.
How does it happen that the Democratic Party, according to the GOP and to many voters, is in favor of "open borders"? Why do we always let Republicans frame issues for us? In the present case, we have handed the Republicans a juicy, ready-made election issue.
Let us drop the call to abolish ICE. Let a few believers spout it -- but the rest of us, let's not.
36
The reason that people want to come to our country is because theirs is over populated and there is no future. In El Salvador they are leaving because it is way over populated. Sure there is crime but if the population wasn’t way more then the resources can handle there wouldn’t be. So we are to just let in people because they over populated their country.
5
"We’re going to make it reciprocal, we’re going to make them fair, and I will tell you that — you don’t know about this, but every country is calling every day, saying, ‘Let’s make a deal, let’s make a deal.’ It’s going to all work out.” Oh puh-leaze Liar in Chief. Nobody's called you begging or otherwise. He's so transparent it's laughable.
3
Trump has given so much ammunition for Democrats to win elections. If they can't shape the right narrative and remove theses people from running the country then it's time for new Democratic leadership. trump fans are easily influenced (obviously) so this shouldn't be a problem.
3
Oh stop it Donald. The people have figured out that I.C.E. is your private army. Nobody knows all the things it is doing because it operates in secret and casually breaks laws and denies the rights of people without any evidence or reason in many cases but simply because they can under their rules. But then you know that because you've boned up on your history. In 1933 in Germany a man arose to leadership and needed a secret police to do his bidding behind the scenes so he created one. It came to be known as the Gestapo, and the man's name of course was Hitler.
The I.C.E. operates very much the same as the Gestapo did. They accost and arrest people they believe are guilty of various offenses even to the point of invading their homes. without permission. And like the Gestapo it's all done behind the scenes so that as few people as possible know about it.
You tried once to put all local and state law enforcement agencies under control of the I.C.E. but that didn't fly but I'm sure you will find a way to do it since it is part of your plan to establish authoritarian rule in this country. I just hope the clueless and cowardly Republicans wake up and do something about you before it's too late. Even for them.
5
The people coming though Mexico to our borders pay thousands of$ for passage though gang/cartel territory. Conditions are likely harsher than ICE custody. Our current policy is very profitable for criminal corruption.. reaching into Mexico's government and establish along side some immigrant communities here.
The US should have no part in this, its feeding corruption that plagues our neighbor. Those who pay traffickers to get here should receive no considerations and returned promptly.
19
Ice was created 15 years ago after 9/11. So why is it needed? Can we gaurd our boarders without them?
4
Why don't politicians and people like trump go out and get a real job? What kind of job is it to dictate to others?
2
@wihiker. Thank you for the laugh. Was very needed.
2
He’s fanning the flames of divisiveness. Can we stop taking the bait?
2
Here's a better idea for Democrats on the left and center: run on a platform of abolishing Trump. Stop the right-wing agenda in all it's forms and propose legislation to move us forward. That's something we can all rally around. As a bonus, once we have the House we can find out and expose absolutely everything this abysmal president and administration are up to.
5
If trump is calling for it go for it Dems. He will have to face the music on tariffs.
2
Democrats want open borders, rampant crime, welfare, and anarchy. That is their platform. Good luck.
21
Fantasy Island indeed.
5
Let's forget the bait in the GOP trap. How about Medicare for all, a minimum wage which is a living wage, clean air, water and fighting climate change, how about a fair tax system etc., etc.
10
How about giving us a little hint about how you would pay for all of that?
3
Fair tax system...
How would we pay you ask? First tax all income at the same rate as someone who works for a living pays. Enact a minimum corporate tax no matter what the income which exceeds the cost of generating that income. Enact a yearly tax a percentage of a tax payers net worth exceeding $10.million on property owned or controlled by the taxpayer wheresoever situated so that mansions and yachts an private jets are taxed and a yearly luxury tax on private aircraft owned or controlled by the taxpayer or set aside for his use and used for interstate travel. Tax antiques and works of art valued at more than a million dollars. That should increase revenue. Also income deemed by the IRS to have been generated by corrupt, criminal or fraudulent means shall be taxed at 90%. It is the flip side of the tax reform and jobs act.
2
So Trump has a so called interview / rant on Trump state TV answering softball questions & we care why? Been riding Harley’s all my life and I wouldn’t vote for Trump as dog catcher. What a coward Trump is.
22
Congress should charter a new organization under Homeland Security that targets the small number of terrorists, drug transporters, and human traffickers that cross the border, primarily by plane, as they are well funded. Undocumented immigration and refugees should be returned to the Department of Justice. ICE has become an organization targeting all 11 million undocumented immigrants for deportation. It terrorizes (mothers know that is the appropriate word) families by putting children in separate camps to deter immigration, and deporting law-abiding immigrant parents leaving their American citizen children destitute. It is unconstitutional, in violation of international law, fundamentally immoral, and has no valid function—have they caught any terrorists? Trump speaks to the gut fear of his white base, that they’re entire way of life is threatened by brown immigrants. Opponents need a positive program of jobs and social services for all Americans funded by taxing corporate America, and an unapologetic promotion of multi-cultural immigration as positive for our economy, that can revive small-town America.
4
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to those who advocate for open borders, a condition that no sovereign nation can or will ever appove.
The US cannot afford to support its own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is thus impossible for US taxpayers to support the hundreds of millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US. That is why there are laws limiting the numbers of immigrants allowed into the US each year. Every nation in the world has laws that limit immigration.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is teaching foreigners how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.; that is, to violate US laws.
By the way, those hoping for Democratic progress in the mid-terms (and 2020) will have to kiss their dreams goodbye if open borders becomes a plank in the Democratic platform.
41
Sorry, but you live in Fox dreams. Ever wonder why progressives called Obama deported in chief?
6
I think that’s the biggest misconception republicans have about Democrats, that we are for open borders. What do you guys call that, fake news!
4
Yes, a common misconception that conservatives love to spread: that liberals want open borders. That's preposterous. And to say immigrants are "gaming the system" and lying about being persecuted is also false. Try living in Central America with your children and you'll change your tune.
Not signing a NAFTA agreement until after Midterms? What does that tell his base? What I’m gonna sign you won’t like!
I hope some Dem makes that point!
7
Trump's right again on running against a "loony left" in November. I remember when Margaret Thatcher won her first re-election landslide in the early 1980's when the Labour Party ran on unilateral nuclear disarmament. American Democrats seem to be following the British left of that era with a nutty race to see who can out-left the other.
11
That's a supreme reach, Rolf. The issues are not comparable at all and how you think they are is puzzling. Something that occurred 30 years or more ago in another country is the parallel of this? No, it certainly is not !
6
According to Trump and others, everyone who votes Democrat helps the Republicans.
3
If President Trump defeats the press on trade, hopefully that will strike a blow to our enemies who try to defeat us in the homeland that which they cannot do on the war front.
From Vietnam through Sand Land to bum-rushing our borders to Russian attempts to degrade our confidence in elections, our enemies aim for our weakest link - a Leftist press all too willing to set our enemy's narratives.
Let's hope Trump can win this one too.
4
Hey, whatever its merits, abolishing ICE is cheaper than actually coming out with an economic plan to address the anxieties of almost all Americans.The reason the Democratic leadership prefers to go with feel-good policies like this and identity politics is that it won't cost their big donors, the ones whose interests they really serve, a dime. It worked great in 2016!
6
Some people may not realize that a huge percentage of the citizens of our nation have never had ANY contact or experience with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). So, when they hear politicians or activists call for the abolition of ICE, they assume that would mean no border security at all--completely open borders.
I have yet to see or hear it explained in a way that ordinary people can understand the issue.
This is a good example of the terrible messaging coming out of the left.
11
To my astonishment, I actually agree with the Putin's puppet on this one... I assume that the folks advocating "getting rid of ICE" are NOT actually proposing that we have open borders and accept all comers.
But in an age where the public gets their information by tweets from twits... Folks are going to hear "The liberals want to abolish ICE" and assume the means we will get rid of any kind of border controls and go nuts.
ICE may be a dysfunctional organization and perhaps should be replaced by something better but just saying that your are going to abolish it without making it clear how you would replace it with some other type of border control organization is just giving the Trumpster and his minions ammunition.
14
At 57 I've always voted Dem from Prez to dog catcher, voting in every election even in off off years. And ICE is clearly incompetent. But abolishing it is not a winning issue. Further, the Rs have been able to paint the Dems with the open borders brush so badly that even scrubbing that off by the election would take more effort and focus than I've seen out of the DNC. We haven't even recovered from Pelosi's 8 hour grandstanding for illegals, and now we have to play down a few candidates who want to get rid of ICE. We're basically doomed.
32
Of course you are doomed. You have clowns like
DeBlasio traipsing to the border solely for a silly photo op. Not to solve a problem.
15
You are cherry picking which will come as a great surprise to many. How about the "clowns" on the Right like Senator,Ro Jo , Ron Johnson who did the same thing? How is their grandstanding any different than what some Democrats might have done ? I hope you aren't indicating that you have a double-standard !
Just saying Dems are terrible at setting the terms of discussion, and I see no reason for them to suddenly get good at it.
1
I agree that abolishing ICE, as opposed to working to change both the policies and those who advocated these policies would be a political mistake.
Having said that, Robert DeNiro was and is correct and his statement reflects my true feelings.
2
Trump is correct. Democrats want open borders.
30
Democrats do NOT want "open-boarders" and you know that as well as Trump. Trump is lying ! Again !
4
Totally wrong. Demanding the end of ICE will help Democrats WIN!
4
Lesson One, which the Dems should have learned back in 2015, is don't ever, ever let DJT frame the discussion. He will lie about everyone else's position and lie about his own to provide counterpoint.
Playing defense against a serial, whirlwind liar is a losing proposition. You'll never catch up.
An escape hatch here is the message "Once again, Mr. Trump, has failed to grasp the essential message. His response reflects his lack of understanding of the issues."
The American people are not calling for the elimination of ICE, the American people want ICE to execute its mission faithfully and forcefully, consistent with the law and American Values.
To that end, first increase the number of judges hearing immigration cases to reasonably accommodate the increase in volume brought about by Trump's half-baked and irresponsible "Zero Tolerance" brain storm...or brain something. His "corruption" objection regarding the federal judiciary is utter nonsense in light of his rush to replace Justice Kennedy and fill circuit court vacancies.
Second, double or triple the ICE Inspector General (IG) budget and staffing. We need to know that ICE is performing consistent with the rules and that violations, intentional or inadvertent, will be corrected and appropriate administrative sanctions applied. Trump has shown great deference to the IG function at the FBI...shouldn't the same hold true here?
Let's give this tack a try, American citizens.
2
ICE is totally out of control. Silence is a go go go to Trump. Trump on FOX today threatened Americans who oppose him; he will sick his base on them. This is authoritarian. Not acceptable. I am mad; you do not threaten me. Ray Sipe
8
Considering their current agenda, the Democratic Party may very well gain the socialist and immigrant vote, but they’ll lose the moderate liberal vote. Moderate liberals will stand for the rights of their fellow citizens, but they will NOT likely stand for the millions of foreign nationals who’ve decided that our sovereign borders and immigration laws don’t apply to them.
The Trump-obsessed Democratic Party appears to be imploding. Not a pretty picture....
33
I am a moderate liberal and I will vote for an axe murderer before I vote for a republican. I do not believe ice should be abolished or that our borders shoud be open with no law. I just don't think any of the hateful things trump does and says are moral. I will never support a member of the republican cult. There is no R party any more.
6
This was the most rational comment on this board. Well done
5
FYI, that is the mission of a different agency--Customs and Border Control. ICE is supposed to focus on dangerous criminals and terrorists, but they're not, which led to many ICE agents to call for its abolishment
3
Put the discussion about ICE on ice.
It's still the economy (and taxation), stupid!
3
Truly expected is for this hopelessly and dangerously insane "person" to completely ignore the pain and suffering he has caused the thousands of migrant families he has separated and imprisoned in his concentration camps across the nation. And as for the extreme right-wingers, the fascists and racists, who "support" him and his boundless cruelty, they eventually will come to learn the hard way!
6
Jim - so our laws and our borders don't mean anything to you? One can just decide that immigration laws don't apply nor do US laws and come as they wish? And who pays for all of the healthcare, education and welfare benefits? These are not skilled workers piling across the border. The lack of strong immigration policy is bankrupting the future of this country.
22
You assumed that the immigrants who cross our southern border are either lazy or incompetent and, therefore, incapable of contributing to our society.
In fact, these immigrants come to America and work at the jobs Americans don't want. Some of them are entrepeneurs who start their own businesses. They're not all that different from the members of my family who came here to build a better life.
I am not advocating open borders, nor do I support elimnation of ICE. But when I read reports from former Border Patrol agents who dispersed a group of immigrants in the desert after taking away their water, I see a law enforcement agency in need of change that starts at the top.
It is all too obvious, "RJ", that you and your madman Donald Trump truly deserve each other!
IF Trump says doing it will hurt you, he's lying. He wants you stop doing it, cause it's effective.
9
Ask low energy Mitt how that worked out.
3
Point, set and match !
3
Duh!
This is totally stupid of progressive Democrats, of which I am one.
If the Dems are going to be this dumb they will certainly lose. It is unhinged to suggest that we disband all border control.....Radical reformation of ICE, fine.
But this is idiotic.
121
As is pretending that this is something that ALL Democrats are advocating. They are NOT, but it seems to serve the purposes of some to mislead others into thinking they do.
1
ICE is not the Border Patrol.
Democrats are right. ICE should be abolished. It is wrong and immoral that immigrant families are separated at the border when they cross over. They should be kept together and they should not be held in detention indefinitely. They should be allowed to stay, indefinitely, until an immigration court rules in their favor or...
7
Just when I think Trump cannot be any more undignified, divisive and flat-out appalling, he proves me wrong. Every voter who stayed home in 2016 had dang well better vote D in November. The survival of this country depends on it.
11
The problem is not as much ICE . It's the Miller, Sessions and Trump team.
8
Trump and his spineless sycophants in Congress are best met with level heads, not Bizarro Trumpism. The country hungers for thoughtul innovation in government. Allowing extremists of any stripe to dominate the conversation plays into their hands. This may be the most astute thing he's ever said, but it's astuteness is diminished by having voiced it. It's a warning to us all.
2
Calling for the abolishment of ICE is setting the stage for political suicide. No one can beat Trump at his blame game and the mythology he has created about himself as rescuer. He is knowingly or perhaps unknowingly tapping into our fears real or not, that run deep in the human psyche. The fear of the other, of crime, of demographic and cultural change. It is the same fear that has many of us glued to our TV crime shows . We want the bad guys caught and locked away. Trump's mythology can not be shouted down or counter tweeted. Trump is a hard core racist, amoral and deceitful. He is a Trickster, extraordinaire. You can't beat him at his game. The answer is the telling of our human stories of persistence in the face of adversity, of unity of purpose when we are threatened, of helping neighbors in need. Democrats wake up!
3
This President and his hardcore supporters constitute the greatest danger to this country.
15
He’s right. The Gillibrand-Booker-Abolish ICE crowd needs to pick a bette fight.
27
And what of the ICE crowd who wants to abolish ICE, as reported last week when several agents said it's being distracted from its mission? And you do realize we would still have Customs and Border Security?
3
Pretty much all the folks timid, dumb and easily frightened enough to believe that ICE is, somehow, protecting them from Trump's imaginary gang members flooding across the southern border have been voting Republican for years. Nothing the Democrats do or don't do now will have any marginal impact on how these people vote.
6
Just last week there was an article in either NYT's or Washington Post regarding officials in ICE wanting to abolish ICE so border patrol officers could get back to transnational crime and stop concentrating on deportation. But Trump in his typical distraction mode has decided it's a liberal left democratic bandwagon when it's his own branch that has raised the issue.
11
I am not a Trump supporter. I am praying and working for a blue wave in November. Trump is right this will help him in November.
23
Colonel Mustard, this doesn't add up well. It doesn't make much sense to say this will help Trump and you do nothing to explain why.
The reality is that Trump is LYING about this as he does with so many subjects. While his base will eat it up as usual, another blatant lie will not help him with the general voter. This is NOT a position of the Democratic Party, but something a handful have thrown out.
1
Name one R voter who was on the fence about this issue (or any other) that would keep him/her from voting straight party tickets.
3
Democratic socialists calling for the abolition of ICE. Yep, sounds like a winning election strategy to me.
21
You do realize ICE officials are also calling for abolishing it as well?
5
Trump is right , another losing although seemingly bold call will blow up in the democrats face . Those calling for abolishing ICE is the new bandwagon that will go nowhere . You need to fight the fire with water extinguishing harmful damage and this issue is not it . Democrats are losing sight what is really going on , distracted by ideas that although seem to be catching on , they need to remember that Republicans or Trump supporters aren't the only ones not keen the idea . Yes , reform it but we need to have intact borders and abolishing ICE will not be the answer . Concentrate on what really needs to be done and is possible to do .
25
Trump loathes the FBI but loves ICE because one investigates his intrinsic legitimacy while the other bolsters his rabid manifesto and enables his deplorable diversionary tactics.
The trouble with ICE is that it has been elevated to the executive arm of an authoritarian administration, therefore bathing the agency, and its role, in the blackest light. If allowed to conduct its role without being politicised, policies dictated by a vile caricature of a president, it could function utilising discretion and sensitivity. Instead, it is obliged to operate as a snarling hunting hound, indiscriminately chewing on people.
9
Trump is an idiot. Even when holding a winning hand he has to go shooting his mouth off boasting that he does before he even plays it. If he was smart he’d keep his trap shut and let the pot only get bigger. He’d really be scary if he had any impulse control, luckily for Democrats he doesn’t and that’s his Achilles heal.
8
Well if the Departments of Education, State, Interior, and Labor are all getting haircuts, merged, or abolished, why can’t the bloated Department of Homeland Security get a trim, too?
10
1) a recent democratic pollster found that 84% of Americans want stricter border security and enforcement; thus democrats, if playing the immigration card to try to flip seats, will lose. Your stance on immigration does not include tighter border security. http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/394624-mark-penn-84-percent-support-tur...
2) all these continuing derogatory comments about Fox News, from the very people who complain about the popular vote not being the be all/end all in 2016–Fox News is the #1 cable news channel, by a big margin, for many years, which means ALOT of people watch it, which means Fox wins the “popular vote.”
29
Both of your points contain fundamental misrepresentations of reality.
6
Only about four million numbskulls watch Fox prime time.
7
JC:
Tell it to those obsessed with FoxNews who claim it is responsible for every anti-progressive comment made by every American in every inch of the country. Blame, blame, blame. If it isn't FoxNews, it's someone else. Time for progressives to accept that Americans are just not that supportive of them.
You know something, maybe these insurgents are onto something.
After all, the Tea Party said some of the looniest things known to man and look who is now controlling and running the roost?
The Tea Party!
So much so, that everyone seems paralyzed in terms of what to do.
So, let's be honest about things.
The protests were huge and inspiring and here was an opportunity to harness these protests into a real force and this force is the direct responsibility of the leadership of the Democratic Party and let's be honest, they have completely squandered it!
They have turned that force into fear and respond weakly, rather than take any compelling action.
So let these insurgents speak their mind. Let them speak their peace. If it appeals to their voters, more power to them!
After all, what is good for Rick Perry, should be good for them as well and at least they remember the name ICE.
Can Rick Perry make that claim?
See, we are already winning.
Ugh...
1
This President continues to run his line of nonsense to his dimwitted base. Nobody is calling for weaker borders or not to enforce immigration laws. However, what we have now is very inhuman with the taking of children from their parents, or taking people out of their homes in the middle of the night, or while going to work, or while taking their children to school because of some "technicality" or a minor incident that occurred long ago and was resolved or adjudicated then. Many of these people have strong roots in the community, some own small businesses, and many have children born in this country. They are not criminals, they are not rapist, and they are not bringing drugs into this country. Yes, ICE should go after those that are indeed criminals, but that's not the issue here. Let's stop pretending that this isn't about the racial makeup or their ethnicity of these people. It is institutional racism and his own words indicts him.
6
If the number of rabid haters of illegal immigrants in this thread is truly indicative of voter sentiment, we won't have an election this November (or in 2020), we'll have a war.
So be it.
10
..."rabid haters of illegal immigrants". It's this kind of misguided and biased perspective that makes progressives unpopular.
1
Apparently, Trump believes that putting children in Concentration Camps is a winning strategy. And, much of America seems to embrace it as well ... but, of course, only for brown skinned people.
11
Where is the leader we need to take on Trump? Who has the strategic mind to chart a winning course in November? Who has the charisma to unite us? Where is today's young RFK or FDR? It seems we have nobody except milquetoasts and maniacs. I'm so depressed. Chances are there will be no Dem vision in November. Every Dem congressional candidate must rise to the occasion (as thankfully many have been doing) to at least define a winning vision in their district or state.
4
As a Liberal Democrat, I think we need an Immigration Service.. with the stress on "Service."
However, I do support cleaning house at ICE. To use a corporate metaphor that Trump and his cultists would understand, fire the CEO, COO, and CFO. Terminate all vice presidents, directors and middle-managers. Sit down with all first-line managers for a heart-to-heart talk. If they are humane and dedicated people, then they stay. With a change on top, the rank and file will sort out and the Trump cultists will eventually leave.
Of course this is a fantasy and we can't do this because these people are Federal employees and they have rights and access to due process. Basic civil rights and access to due process is something the moron in chief doesn't get.... nor do his cultists.
3
Trump has a great issue when he states that he is for border control and reduced crime while the Dems favor an "open border" and criminals. An open border is what caused Brexit, is leading to Merkel's end, and is political suicide. Common sense tell us that open borders won't work BECAUSE there are likely more than ONE BILLION refugees who would like to come to the USA or the EU. The metaphor I use is the lifeboats from the Titanic that were too few for the people on the boat. Picking up too many people in a lifeboat means it sinks and all drown. The ecological concern is that the Earth is overpopulated and that taking on more people that a country can carry is gonna lead to disaster. We need to help the desperate poor people with aid, support, etc, but we don't have enough room on our lifeboat USA for all of them. THat is common sense. The era when the US could take the tired, sick, poor etc, is long over. Ecology trumps compassion.
30
Sounds like dimwittedness trumps compassion as well. . .
1
Then direct Trump and the Republicans to once again find contraception programs and education on family planning in the Third World that they defunded under pressure from religious groups.
2
We've got room in Maine. Our population is aging. Children graduate college and leave. We NEED immigrants.
I believe you are letting FOX and Friends make you fearful. No, nobody wants 'open borders', that's a lie that Trump likes to tell over and over ad nauseum. But he wants to even limit legal immigration. America is aging. We need immigrants. We're a country of immigrants.
Where did yours come from?
2
I urge Democrats to speak about replacing ICE or returning ICE back to its original purpose of fighting terrorists and reporting people who are committing serious crimes in our country. Ms-13 members not 7-11 clerks. Don't let the Republicans lie about our desire to have safe borders. We want safe borders and a refrain from kidnapping for political purposes, they are not exclusive goals.
8
Abolishing ICE would be the worst thing the Democrats ever got behind, that is if they plan on winning again.
9
“I guarantee you everybody that ever bought a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump,” he said.
I had a Harley once. At the time, a biker told me I wouldn't be a real biker until I broke a leg or sustained some other significant injury. After another Harley biker confirmed the premise, I got rid of it. Apparently Harley owners swear by their bad decisions. As for me, I voted against the unhealthy oprion.
10
Agree! Sadly, I have come to view Harley Davidsons and the American flag associated with ignorance and shame, respectively.....
3
Harley Davidson is moving production because they will sell just as many Motorcycles in China as they do in America within a few years, and they know that their future is with the Chinese middle class that wants to pretend they are Americans.
Harleys sales have dipped in the US as people realize their product is garbage and so the only people where the market is growing is in Asia.
The fact that they blamed it on tariffs is just a cheap political gambit. I wouldnt buy a Harley. They leak, dont work, and fall apart now. Their new products aren't very cool, and they have really lost their connection to the middle class whod rather now drive around a better bike like a Ducati or a Aprilla or a even a BMW.
2
Trump is a charlatan populist who exploits anti- immigrant hysteria and religious right cultural beliefs to appeal to his base. Of course the Republicans party wants to use these cultural issues to advance their agenda of tax cuts for the rich and corporations , deregulation of environment and financial rules, and decimation of the safety net. They want to do this by subterfuge since their aims are unpopular with the majority of the electorate. This is how they destroy democracy by chaos and concealment.
10
I look forward to more leftist/socialists talking and talking, demanding that ICE be abolished, the American middle class paying for their government programs, as well as Maxine and other Dem leaders spouting their hatred for anyone who opposes their views, ensuring Trump’s re-election. Throw in open border advocates for good measure. Trump 2020. America and Americans First.
11
Do you think ICE agents are leftists? Because many of them are also calling for the abolishment of ICE because it is no longer focused on its mission of going after dangerous criminals and terrorists.
3
“America First” was a slogan coined by and used by Nazi-sympathizers in the 1930s. Not much has changed.
Instead of ICE, let's abolish GOP.
10
I'm going out to buy Tylenol, as soon as I finish banging my head against the wall. Dems are done! Abolish ICE as a rallying cry....you may as well say "Burn all the Churches"....it has the same affect in the climate fear and madness and immigrants are rapists & murderers Trump has created.
And, here, if you're not depressed enough, have a read of his leaked Bill that will blow up the WTO:
https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-leaked-bill-world-trade-organizati...
7
Trump is the worst politician this country has ever produced.
Period.
19
The Democrats have not yet learned that they need a positive agenda. Abolish ICE is not a plan. What is the plan? What does start over mean?
Like so many of us, I am appalled at what is happening at the border with the separation of families. I have not yet heard a Democrat say what they would do to rebut Trump's claim they want open borders. There are going to be thousands of families come from those countries, what do the Democrats think is a good plan to deal with them.
And, yes, there is a distinct chance that the Democrats will lose the midterms and the Presidential race after that. The Republicans are now a single voice, Trump. Or Fox and Trump.
The Democrats have no leader and no agenda. That is not a path to victory.
27
Nothing motivates Trump voters like intense racism, hatred, and cruelty. These are the qualities that got him elected, and they remain his biggest selling points.
The more enraged and destructive he becomes the more they worship him. His rallies are like a vicious feeding frenzy of sharks and the death roll of a crocodile all rolled into one. And, their mutual lust of carnage seems insatiable.
Their goal is to replace "freedom" with "subjugation" as the New American Ideal.
"War is Peace"
"Freedom is Slavery"
"Ignorance is Strength"
INGSOC has nothing on Trump and his supporters vision of a New World Order... a world of endless cruelty, violence, inequality, and subjugation.
One has to wonder, how many months and days away are we from this nightmare becoming a living reality?
If there comes a time when you're talking politics and a good friend turns to you and says, "You better be careful what you say" - You'll know that day has arrived.
11
Whatever, Chicago...the Dems are going to lose with this play.
4
It is called Fascism and was tried in Germany in the 1930s. We know the results- carnage, war, genocide.
Trump proves it could happen here. Orwellian!
3
"...the Dems are going to lose with this play"?
I agree that politics is a "practical profession", but, to see it simply as a game, where one side wins and another side loses, well...
Is there such a thing as right and wrong? Or. is the world merely divided up into "winners" and "losers" in your assessment?
1
The only radical is Trump. I'm guessing that like most of the commenters on this thread, Trump also doesn't know the (short) history of ICE. That the Times chose not to include any of that history here shows how difficult it is to be well informed.
8
Take back the podiums Democrats. You let a major issue float right by. Trump has been aggressively teaching the followers to hate the free press and I believe may have inspired the insanity of Ramos this week as he invaded the Gazette in Annapolis Maryland on a shooting rampage. Trump is trying to promote violence. Point it out. Trump changes the public focus every day. You are all shell shocked by that. Regroup and teach the public they are being reduced to animals. Trump changed the focus away from that on to ICE today. Don't you see the daily pattern?
8
Is it me? Or is actually too early for the Democrats to get off their keisters and begin an offensive toward the November elections? In the media it's trump and the GOP 24/7. It seems like the NYT puts trump's picture on the front page almost daily. If not on the front page, then on opinon pieces like one.There is very little mention of anything the Dems are doing, and almost zero photos. I am not a conspiracy person, but I am beginning to wonder if Russia and/or the GOP have infiltrated the leadership of the DNC too. We seem to be falling right into Republican hands. The blue wave that everyone is talking about may bypass the U.S. and head right out to sea.
15
The hundreds of kids slaughtered in school by AK47s and thousands of toddlers scooped up and caged by ICE men do make American citizens afraid to go out in the streets. What will happen to us if a Republican comes along?
3
Dems should just concentrate on what the RIGHT thing is - not how it polls. By the time November rolls around, no one will remember "abolish ICE."
4
It probably will. The rule of law is being dismantled, and there is nothing from the Dems. The rich are getting richer and the march towards a two class society is progressing quickly - and the Dems are doing nothing. The world is dying and the profits on its demise are way up - and the Dems have made hardly a peep. And in a world that is obscenely over populated - the one thing the Dems have glommed onto - perhaps a misguided grab for votes - is immigration.
6
And, well, I hate to say it, but he's right. He won on one thing and one thing only, people are fed up with illegal immigration. Democrats failed to address that and now a bunch of pie in the sky liberals, say abolish ICE. I'm sorry, we can't take four more years of Trump, but that is what we are going to get. Fine and good for liberals to trumpet some non-sensical message in the safe zone of New York, where they will get the liberal vote, but this is the problem, YOU CAN'T WIN THE PRESIDENCY! We're going to give it away one more time. We had a car full of clowns representing the GOP...and the biggest clown one. Democrats...listen one more time...get your act together!
26
“The Democrats, the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em," the former head of Breitbart News told The American Prospect in an interview. "I want them to talk about racism every day."
"If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats,” he added.
- Steve Bannon
8
Unfortunately for Dems Trump is right. This is a losing issue with everybody except the people in the country with TDS and can’t think straight. He already ended separating families! This March is like 10 day’s late, you people look insane.
16
Two thoughts on this:
1.The narrative that democrats want to get rid of ICE is vastly overblown but delivers ratings and clicks. It's like going to a Bernie rally in 2016 and claiming he represented the democratic party, when he wasn' t really a democrat anyway. What Gilibrand said on CNN is that ICE needed to be re engineered in its mission...which is true. Other democratic lawmakers have not come out in favor of abolishing ICE like the GOP with the EPA or CFPB.
2. "Immigration" is a manufactured "priority" by the GOP to energize a white male base who suffered wage stagnation or job loss as a result of economic inequality and globalization and they need someone to blame.
6
Trump has been hijacking other's messages for years. Eventually, this is going to backfire on him and the majority will reject his fear mongering. For the time being the conspiracy theorists run the GOP. However, the question is will it be a viable party in 10 years? Will it survive the fear fest?
2
If I may say so without appearing to be disrespectful, the Democrats are such idiots! Trump is completely right. The more they squeeze themselves into an extremist corner of leftist ideology the more he is likely to be able to minimize their gains and his losses in November. You would think, after he outflanked Hillary at the beginning of the campaign on a variety of issues, stealing millions of her potential supporters before she even opened her mouth, the Democrats would have more respect for their opponent. It's a sign of his devilish talent, and their complacent misguidedness, that they don't. They'd better wake up soon: he's been on a big-time winning streak lately.
8
Since we know that everything, as in everything, that trump says is 180 degrees wrong his latest statements are very encouraging. Let's keep calling out the grotesque offal party for their horrendous actions.
5
Wake up Uncle Buck. You guys lost in 2016 and will lose again in 2018 and 2020. Americans don't want open borders, poor trade deals, weak foreign policy and a middling economy. It's actually kind of funny to watch the left competing with each other to go as far left as possible...my parents have been staunch Democrats for decades - they are middle class whites who will now be voting Republican going forward as they don't believe the Democrats care about what matters to them anymore - they don't care about transgender rights nor illegal immigrants. They care about the economy and their Social Security benefits
8
Wake up, RJ. The President is peddling lies, and (apparently) you're buying.
@ Brad - what lies? The economy is now growing at 4%+ which never happened in 8 years of Obama. We are taking a hard line with trade and foreign policy which is what the US should always do. Equity market at all time highs. Tough talk on terrorism.
News flash - most Americans don't care about the plight of illegal immigrants or a litany of social entitlement programs. People want to work hard, have opportunity for them and their families and be able to afford to retire. That's why HRC lost and why your next candidate will lose too now that it seems the DNP will campaign on abolishing ICE and open borders. Failed strategy.
I studied Nazi Germany extensively way back when. In case anybody's STILL wondering, this is how Hitler rose to power. The complacency of Republican "leaders" and their willingness to gleefully give this fascist additional powers while blocking those who are trying to curb it is WELL beyond disgusting. It's well beyond frightening. The damage that has already been done, and what this portends for this country, is the stuff of nightmares.
16
Of course it will help the GOP. The victim club the Democrats have been enlisting members in is a defeatist organization. Their zeal for socialism is a simple parlor trick, even the NYTs fails to post commenters disagreements with their party lines. Their party lines are no more insulting to me and my fellow patriots than saying the pledge of allegiance is to them. They're history for quite a few years. Just like most spoiled children they typically learn things the hard way.
10
Except for few cosmetic changes as in any treaty review , the new NAFTA will be just like the old NAFTA. Just old wine in new bottles. So the delay so that Trump can continue to lie, fabricate and feed filth to his base on NAFTA during mid-term elections.
As far as Mexico and Canada are concerned, they can wait indefinitely. They are in no hurry and it was Trump who could not wait a day ! They are not swayed by Trump's lies. So his defeat and delay on NAFTA, he will portray as a victory and you fell into that trap.
3
"...but every country is calling every day saying 'Let's make a deal, let's make a deal'...".
Is this the Fake President's 3,112th lie, or the 3,113th, since he first infected the Oval Office? This ignorant and dangerous imposter will bring this nation into economic depression to satisfy his narcissistic sense of personal grievance. Heaven, or Robert Mueller, help us.
15
ICE is not the problem. Donald Trump is. He and Jeff Sessions and Kirstjen Nielsen have implemented a criminal and inhumane policy. They are the ones who need to be "abolished" not ICE.
35
I disagree. The problem is the Republican Party and the stupidity and bigotry of 40% of the people in this country. Republicans have enabled this horror, gerrymandered their way to victories without majority votes, and have happily allowed this fascist to accumulate power.
5
The President is not the root of the problem, his supporters are. They imagine themselves as "patriots" when, in reality, they're just easily led.
3
I would argue that the ideological bias of the left is the problem. They slander anyone who stands in their way. They cannot comprehend the simple fact that people may simply disagree with them. It's always the same attacks -- criminal, racist, anti-immigration, etc. -- on their opponents. The left needs to check its anger and hatred and stop demonizing other Americans.
2
Well, he's probably right. Democrats are good at turning a sure win into a loss.
85
Unfortunately, he is correct. Calls to abolish ICE are political suicide. It might work in the Bronx, San Francisco - and San Antonio - but in the overall scene of things - suicide....
149
It’s not resonating broadly here in San Francisco either. Few applauded that message at the Saturday rally, because most of us understand the issue is not that simple. Russian trolls could not do a better job of helping Trump than pushing this slogan.
1
The fake president alleges that with the Democrats “Crime would be rampant and uncontrollable!”
Big cities are run by Democrats.
Crime is rampant and uncontrollable.
9
Maybe you're being coy but, crime has been down, precipitously, in both urban and rural areas in the past two decades.
9
In the vast majority of cities, crime hasn't been this low since the early 90s. But hey, who needs facts when you have hyperbolic lies?
8
It is uncontrollable in Chicago, Obama’s hometown, as well as Baltimore.
3
HL Mencken saidz; "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."
Trump (and Fox) understand what the Dems do not:
Marketing=Ratings=Shares=Votes
13
This is where the Democrats need leadership.
Get out there, denounce those on the left who are politically hurting you.
Say what Democratic policy actually is.
Rein in the far left who are tainting your brand.
Control the narrative.
Don't let Trump do it for you.
22
That's right, and that's exactly what the Democrat leadership is not doing. As I look at news reports today I see many of them lining up behind, or at least not speaking against, the 'Abolish ICE' crowd even thought they must know that's the wrong thing to do. To most voters 'Abolish ICE = Open Borders, plainly death at the polls. Mainstream Democrats are flustered and afraid, they're being stampeded to the left by extremists and the sensation-hunting liberal news media, they don't know how to combat it. The right is enjoying the spectacle. Will they turn this around before the election?
7
In a lot of other Western democracies the leader of the main opposition party to the elected government has an appointed leader. Not just a hierarchy, like the one on which Pelosi is currently top - an internally elected party leader. This persons job is to go on TV and keep the, say Prime Minister honest. That persons almost as much time on TV as the Prime Minister.
America suffers for nothing this. No check or balance in the public sphere.
Dear Amie,
It is a quiet day and reminiscent of a Midsummer Night's Dream. Apparently The Republican Party is still under the spell of 'Bottom' in this play, proving that we enjoy getting kicked in the teeth.
Bottom, with his tall ears, is braying at us to keep ICE, because soon it will not be safe to leave our house. Half the country is ahead of him, stockpiling weapons, and the new deal on rebuilding our Nation is designing bomb-shelters. Mr. Potter, a staunch republican, tells me that he and his wife have enough food to last three months.
ICE has acquired an ugly name, contrary to Mr. Trump's idea of beautiful things. One day we may even be in awe of his beautiful tax statements.
Awful, the last straw is the separation of children from their family. It is fatal and the final act of submission to degrade America, the Land of the Free indeed.
Some of us do not want to hear of Bottom anymore and have fallen asleep. Should we wake up and see him for who he is, we will be feeling like proper dolts.
On a happier note, the garden continues enchanted, but there are few birds singing and our rainbow children are rarely seen.
We may not see each other again, but you are Mother Earth, and remain visible to my heart. I leave you here, hoping one day that America will rise again, brighter and wiser, after what has been a catastrophe.
4
Democrats have gone totally berserk, being out of power for so long. They are coming up with mindless proposals such as abolishing ICE. This fits right in with their other foolish proposals, like sentencing reform which will flood the streets with more criminals. Using the ploy of just letting off pot users they are planning to drastically reduce sentences for the majority of crimes. They don't deserve to be in power.
7
Maybe President Trump is right that getting rid of ICE will hurt the Democrats — that is, if he can somehow get people to forget about those children in cages. By the way, notice in the photo with this article how Melania Trump follows her husband up the stairs. What a polite man he is!
7
This administration is doing immense and likely permanent damage to our economy, our country, the environment and the social fabric of the entire world. WHO CARES if ICE is abolished or not? Any voter gullible enough to get distracted by that minor issue and to make it the basis of his or her vote should be ashamed.
5
The abolishment of ICE is not a “minor issue.” Did you forget that the apprehending of terrorists is also part of ICE’s job? Is that also a minor issue? There are thousands of Americans who were killed by terrorists and their family and friends who would say no, as well as millions of Americans.
5
Olivia, How many Americans have been killed by terrorists 9/11?
1
When we are all choking on the smog filled skies and dying from the poisoned waters of Trump's environmental policies, which will be fully protected by his Supreme Court, do take a moment to give thanks to ICE for protecting you from terrorists.
1
There is a need for greater precision about ICE. We don't want it to spend untold billions to deport all 11 million illegals. But we want it to deport illegals who are serial criminals. And we want it to arrest those who smuggle illegals and often transport and house them in inhuman conditions. The better reform is to call for wiser use of ICE's resources.
9
And we want new illegal arrivals deported, and we want swift adjudication so families stay together but are not released into the general populace.
7
The NY Times article, “Criminal Groups Seek to Decide Outcome in Many Mexican Races”, just gave Donald Trump justification to build a wall.
And gave many of the rest of us pause in our thinking regarding immigration....
Might want to read the article, folks..
19
Thanks for the heads up!
2
Thanks, William.
3
As long as the U.S. is the biggest consumer--by far!--of illegal drugs a wall will not stop the drug trade nor the crime that's associated with it. And anyone who's actually been on the ground at the border will tell you a physical wall is not feasible and is an 18th century answer to a 21st century problem.
3
The Liar lies again...
Kim is still advancing his nuclear program....
The Saudis have not said they would produce more oil...
Like the bunny rabbit, he keeps on lying...
Has he ever told the thruth to the American people?
He would certainly lie on that question...
8
President Trump is right to say he won't sign a NAFTA deal until after the midterm elections. Why? Because there won't be any kind of NAFTA deal to sign. What there will be in the next few months and continuing afterwards is a painful trade war. Good job, Donnie!
10
Trump is again manipulating the media to deflect attention away from more urgent matters. Calls to abolish ICE are coming from a small number of progressives, and do not reflect Democratic policies or platforms in any substantial manner. It is typical of this man and his cultish followers to hysterically exaggerate a minority view and make it seem representative of the whole. At least three openly white nationalists are running on the Republican ticket in in WA., N.C., and IL.; this fact doesn't mean all conservatives support their ideas. This grotesque double-standard needs to stop. In the meantime, a pivotal issue for Democrats is the near certainty that, thanks to Trump, the new SCOTUS will overturn Roe vs. Wade (the right wing legal community has argued since the 1980s that scare decisis doesn't apply). Seventy percent of Americans support a woman's right to choose. Why shouldn't this issue, among many others, galvanize the voting public? Allowing Trump and his propaganda machine to self-servingly define the issues limits reality-based debate and dissent.
9
I always ask myself how a party that represents the interests of the majority is able to consistently remain a minority party. Then democrats start talking about abolishing ICE and it all makes sense.
Forget utopia and focus on the messaging that causes people to vote against their own self-interest or remain the minority party.
24
I generally consider myself very liberal. I voted for Jill Stein. I was horrified when Trump won the election. Couldn't believe it. However, liberals advocating to dismantle immigration enforcement is wilder than anything Trump has ever suggested. You cannot pass immigration laws and then just let anyone who breaks the law stay in the country. And then when there are too many people who have broken the law, dismantle the organization who is supposed to enforce the law. That is totally ridiculous. If you want to have open borders, like in the 1800s, fine. Abolish the law, then. But you can't fault law enforcement for enforcing the law on the books.
I never thought I would say this, but my opinion of Trump is increasing, and the likelihood I would vote Democrat is decreasing. Democrats just aren't thinking straight.
26
Most Democrats don't advocate abolishing ICE. You weren't thinking about the consequences when you voted for Stein and to throw over the Democrats in November is no different. Trump is incompetent and irresponsible on most every issue affecting Americans and the world. A Democratic Congress is our only check and balance.
6
You lost me with "I voted for Jill Stein."
4
The Executive Branch has broad powers vis-a-vis immigration policy. In that light, ICE and present immigration policy are a window into the soul of the Trump White House. What would they do vis-a-vis society at large were we, via Congress or the Courts, to permit it? Brown children ripped from families. Brown families detained in prisons. Violating the fundamental human rights of children and families. Brutal midnight ICE raids by agents in black armor with automatic weapons. Inhumane for-profit ICE prisons. Applications for asylum not accepted, in violation of our own laws. All justified by lies, racism, fear, and ignorance.
ICE should be fixed or replaced.
4
ICE should be reformed, but that cannot happen without a Democratic Congress.
3
I should have said, "ICE and present immigration policy are YET ANOTHER window into the soul of the Trump White House."
1
What a wonderfully supportive president we have. And so positive to the American people. Says a lot about who we are, don't you think?
3
Very Supportive. He's ensuring that the whole world doesn't get in here an rob Americans of their inheritance. Why else would these people pass through two or more countries where they can be safe to get here? It's the freebies.
3
Obviously they risk their lives for "freebies." Sure. Read the stories of what's going on in Guatemala.
Trump merely *claims* Democrats are calling for the abolition of ICE, and his base and State-Run TV (Fox) serve as the megaphone. The hundreds of thousands of Americans who were on the streets this weekend were not calling for an end to ICE. They were protesting the Trump administration's new policy of "Zero Tolerance," which empowered the White House to kidnap children under the banner of "border security".
6
So you didn’t see the ABOLISH ICE signs being held by protesters?
10
Trump giving advice to democrats is like the fox giving security advice to the hens. This administration cannot properly administer much of anything.The horrible policy belongs squarely to this administration. Fix the policy, and undertake a study to determine what change or whether ICE should remain.
1
Democrats have an opportunity to win back the majority in both houses if candidates can articulate sensible policies and can point to a track record of getting things done by uniting different members of the local or state community they aspire to represent.
That should not be hard to do, given the poorly conceived and divisive policies of this administration and this Congress.
The danger that Trump aptly underlines is that if Democrats capitulate to impassioned activists at the fringes of the party who are pushing half baked proposals November's results are sure to be a major disappointment.
34
He’s right. “Abolish ICE” is a losing campaign meme. The majority of people don’t want open borders. But the elites of both parties do. Only the Dems get blamed for it.
66
ICE unlike the FBI and the Justice department carry out orders from Homeland security. National security unlike the DOJ and FBI isn't independent from the White House.
The President cares about his personal border Gestapo. The FBI and DOJ who he is continually attacking and undermining, not so much. You know the US Justice system that has been actually keeping us safe and is regarded as the best investigative and Justice system in the world.
The problem with ICE is it has been asked to implement a policy directly from the President that failed miserably.
The American public is entitled to competence for the government they actually pay for. If ICE was actually enforcing policy that could be competently carried out this wouldn't be an issue. Mr. Trump is not right. ICE under his leadership is a clear and present danger to everyone in this country citizen, none citizen and illegal entrants. Can I see your papers?
1
What did Trump say to galvanize his base during the election? "Build the wall". What does he repeat now and what do his supporters shout back? "Build the wall."
Democrats still don't get it. The misbegotten Reagan Amnesty of 1986 was followed by 30+ years of failure to enforce our immigration laws. It took awhile, but now there is a bi-partisan group of ordinary Americans -- not the elites of either party -- who are absolutely livid about what illegal "immigration" has done to this country. The establishment Democrats hate Trump. The establishment GOP hates Trump. But, as long as he is addressing the illegal "immigration" mess caused by both parties, he will be supported.
Democrats, get on the wrong side of this if you will, but you won't like the result.
Illegal "immigration" is not some noble civil rights crusade. It is an invasion of poorly educated, low earning law breakers whose families impose tremendous and varied burdens on our communities and taxpayers. And many do not like it!
27
For once he is right. Abolishing ICE is a terrible losing idea for Democrats. The issue is not with ICE but the administration in Washington directing its policies.
39
American citizens of Hispanic heritage will be afraid to walk out of their houses because the president wants to turn ICE into his personal anti immigrant agency to round up families of Latino decent. The president is insensitive to the outrage his family separation policy has done to asylum seekers from south of the border. He cannot admit that he is wrong or backtrack on any issue.
As for the brewing trade war and the damage his tariffs are going to farmers and ranchers who voted for him and placed their trust in him to put them first, all the president wants to do is win, even at the expense of his base of support. It’s all about him, not the heartland.
8
And he was starting to flip flop on immigration, between whether he disliked the "look" and "feel" of his policy, to his hardline of turning everyone away. He was even clashing with Ted Cruz about solution. What a circular firing squad! Trump was starting to gift us.
I just wish that Democrats would not offer distractions or give him ammunition. In the next few months, Trump can make a good case for a Democratic Congress, if they would just stand back and let him.
2
Democrats are determined to create a divisive issue that will energize the fringe of their base and simultaneously prove to moderates that they are too extreme to govern. I don't remember the last time I said this, but Trump is right.
34
The phrase E Pluribus Unum (out of many, comes one) has been printed on U.S. coins since 1795. Is has something to do with 13 different colonies coming together for the mutual benefit of all. They argued and debated how to do this, but listened and gave each credit for being interested in the good of the nation. Now, 223 years later this president is using "divide et impera" (divide and rule). He works to divide the population into disagreeable groups, making a debate of ideas impossible. Who in his right mind really thinks half of Americans wish to destroy our own country? Who honestly believes there is only a "binary choice" of being either the inhuman brutal bully or victim of the same. Is this a debate about policy or about power to dominate, control and dismiss others? Let's look for leaders to bring people together and vote for them.
2
The purpose of law is to divide the law abiding from the lawbreaking. We have never been E Pluribus Unum meaning "out of many lawbreakers and law abiders comes one" and we never should be.
4
The two largest factors in the 80% decline in illegal arrivals since 2001 have been the declining fertility rate in Mexico, which dropped from around 7 to 2, and NAFTA, which created jobs and especially education incentives especially for women in Mexico.
And yet the budget continues to soar upward for the Department of Homeland Security, to about $72 billion in 2019 and Trump is bent on destroying NAFTA. Not smart.
Democrats are not advocating the elimination of border controls, as lyin' Trump likes to say. But there are other tools which would be far more effective than the current approaches that would take pressure off the Border Patrol, detention and judicial systems.
Workplace audits (not raids) and penalties for employing undocumented workers, that started in the Obama Administration were a cost effective way to reduce the incentives for illegal immigration. Construction, agriculture and hospitality sectors are still grossly violating US laws. Fixing the broken guest worker program is another opportunity.
E-Verify is opposed by some of the business community.
More economic trade with Central America and not less would help with the economic refugee situation.
The violence causing many to seek US asylum has to do with agricultural failures and climate change. Helping Central Americans farmers adapt to a changing climate would be far cheaper than chasing them on the US border.
But Trump isn't interested in what works, only in stoking rage.
9
Even while Mexico border apprehensions declined by 80%, DHS spending soared from $18 billion in 2002, the year before ICE replaced INS, to $72 billion appropriated for 2019. Spending 4 times more to apprehend 80% fewer at the border should raise serious questions about how our tax money is being spent.
5
Trump this, Trump that. You make good points, but Trump is still right that Dems will lose if tarred with the open borders brush.
4
ICE are only as good as their orders. So rather than attacking the agency, we should be changing the directives they are getting. That means resisting Trump and his Congressional enablers directly.
4
Voters aren't going to for Republicans because some Democrats say they want to abolish ICE. They Will vote to defeat Republicans because they are failing to hold the Dictator in Chief Donald Trump to account for all his criminal activity as President, and for him Conspiring with the Russians and other Foreign powers in Undermining and Hacking the 2016 Presidential Election. Republicans are complicit in the Russian coverup and obstruction of justice and failure to investigate crimes being committed by Trump's administration.
7
seems like the democrats have a real winning strategy in their push for a socialist government and elimination of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Actually, it is a gift package to the GOP.
8
I will never vote for Trump.
But he's right.
This is why I don't trust the Democrats. They overreach too far to the left.
11
Don't trust the Democrats' anger about how we are separating children from their parents? When we talk about getting rid of ICE, we are saying that their policies are totally wrong-headed; they are their policies.
An unorganized border is not what anyone wants either, With world conditions what they are, the problem of frightened people who want a chance at a better life will only get worse. Surely Trump's "best people" can figure out a way.
3
If it about ICE policy SAY THAT.
Not 'Abolish ICE'.
Different thing.
The devil is in the details.
ICE. ICE has become Trump's Praetorian Guard, the spear carriers of mass control and caged arrests (they say chain link fencing, floor to ceiling) with non-lethal force. Using detention, separation, and deportation without due process, and administrative barriers. But they couldn't figure how to change diapers on a soiled toddlers they had seized.
Government agents removed breastfeeding children; scattered them without parent permission or a process for reunification; a UN Human Rights violation--a domestic attack, with non-lethal force.
4
These far leftist "Democratic Socialists" are Trump's best friends.
We have Bernie Sanders to thank for the country tilting so far to the right that it won't recover for decades, especially with Trump being able to choose Supreme Court nominees for the next two years (and probably six if leftists continue with their calls for Socialism, open borders, eliminating ICE, free stuff for everybody, etc.).
The Democratic Party that has been so maligned by these leftists is what has kept this country sane for 50 years. And now a bunch of people who have never accomplished anything have made it a laughingstock. Well done, folks. Say hello to a second term for Trump.
All we fought for....lost.
6
Kirsten Gillibrand thinks that doing away with ICE and starting from scratch is a good idea? Sheesh! Senator Gillibrand was also behind the heavy handed treatment of Al Franken, which cost the party a good legislator, without a fair hearing, over relatively minor instances of bad behavior.
Ms. Gillibrand has already done enough to divide her party and hurt Democrats' standing in Congress. She needn't blow 2018, too.
344
Senator Harris of California was the first to speak of getting rid of ICE; just another idea to pander to a ballooning first generation voters from illegal immigrant parents.
4
Thank you! I feel the same way and posit that Kirsten Gillibrand is as destructive in rhetoric as the tweeter in chief. I hope she figures it out.
He is not wrong. Separating families is unacceptable even among most Republicans. Abolishing ICE is entirely a different matter.
But I guess Democrats are used to losing now, from gender identification restroom to ICE, pushing one fringe issue after another, managing to alienate moderate independents and even moderate Republicans who are against Trump.
Top this insanity.
109
"Top this insanity."
The assumption is that you meant to say "Stop....", referring to the "insanity" of making the idea of abolishing the ICE agency a major plank of the Dem platform. Otherwise, your point is well taken, as it is with several others saying the same thing. The DNC needs to wake up very soon, rethink its game and hopefully elect more savvy leadership.
2
If the government had done its job 10, 20, 30 years ago--requiring a national ID card and swiftly deporting those without it--we would not have these impossible huge problems of arresting, deporting and separating long established families; frightening stateless Dreamers, fussing about DACA and fights over educational and government resources going to non citizens; entire states dependent on undocumented labor and its contribution to markets. America needs robust, kinder, gentler immigration control or much of the Southwest will turn into Kosovo, but how do we kindly deport people who shouldn't be here while we break up their families? US citizens have a right to demand immigration enforcement, painful as it is.
9
Instead of a "national ID card", maybe the US government should mandate something like a tattoo or badge. . .
1
The fake president alleges that with the Democrats “Crime would be rampant and uncontrollable!”
The crime is that there's a criminal cell rampant and uncontrollable IN the White House !
Wake up, U.S.A ! Mr. Trump's assignment is to destroy executive, judicial, and legislative branches of the U.S. Federal Government.
11
ICE is a problem because the Administration is incompetent and put ICE in a position to fall badly.
The issue for this election is simple. The Republicans have failed to competently run our government.
Zero tolerance, like trade and North Korea have been badly bungled.
The Democrats lost the Congress when the ACA rollout was bungled. If you can't govern it really doesn't matter what your policy is. Trump is a complete failure as an Executive running the US government. The Republican Congress is a rubber stamp for that failure.
ICE will be fine with new management.
11
He has no idea what’s really going on in the country..
11
A broken clock is right twice a day - "abolish ICE" couldn't be a more rock-dumb idea for Dems in November. Please abandon immediately.
87
I would hope that the current wave against the nastiness of the WH is not overplayed to give GOP a chance to hold the House or Senate, I do think Dems should avoid pushing the most radical agendas at this point, rather propose constructive methods to achieve what's best for the country,
Hating the haters can backfire, even when a party like the current GOP becomes so spineless as to become Trumps toadies,
3
Trumpy's usually right about strategy. He was right about the fact that many of the very women who didn't vote or didn't vote for Secretary Clinton were suddenly out in silly pink hats the day after his inauguration, pretending to be horrified. He's right about the rise in loutish, Trumpian behavior by progressive sympathizers. No one can out-trumpy Trumpy. And he's right about the campaign effectiveness of the idea of abolishing ICE. Once elected, the Democrats must modify and redirect the role of ICE with strict boundaries - certainly no despicable behavior like wrenching parents from their children outside a school, in a hospital ward, or separating them at the border. It's one thing to have a secure border where drug lords and terrorists are kept at bay. It's quite another to be vicious with fellow human beings who are down on their luck. Talk of abolishing ICE is about as silly as the right-wingers talking about abolishing the IRS.
11
Furthermore, Democrats must campaign as the rule-of-law party. We know the Republicans are all for undermining the rule-of-law. In fact, the Republicans are a crime-ridden party lead by a crime family syndicate. And unlike the Republicans, they must campaign to keep the economy strong and quality of life as high as possible. And as a national security party, unlike the Republicans who are a propping up a leader who is a noted plant of the Russian spy agency.
2
Trump is a cartoon. Watch, listen, laugh...then move along with your day. ICE is unnecessary. INS was sufficient. But Trump's base feeds on fear, and ICE is more befitting a bogeyman narrative.
The Democrats call to abolish Trump would also help the GOP.
1
The midterms are in four months. The day of reckoning is near. The future of the Supreme Court hangs in the balance. Now, show of hands please, how many people think that eliminating ICE is a winning issue to get our voters out and to land swing voters? Didn't think so.
The stakes are too high for this.
11
@NM -- the president's base is voting for the attitude. The right's hatred for minorities and Dems is so great that they'll gladly cut off their noses to spite their faces. For them, their hate supersedes their hope for America.
6
If Dems want to win, they should do what the GOP does: lie when necessary, which is all the time.
The first and biggest lie should be that Democrats will enforce a more controlled border and will tighten immigration. By doing this, they effectively equalize Trump's most winning political stance, because it is what a majority of Americans actually want.
Then, to keep any liberal votes, they should offer free public university tuition, public healthcare, a more progressive income tax, and redirect monies that are spent on pork barrel projects that the military gets for buying antiquated or useless equipment and instead spend it on infrastructure repairs of roads and bridges around the country.
The outraged liberals will have no where else to go, the people on the fence will tip over into liberal territory.
4
Condensing years of Trump behavior, you will realize his recipe for success is appealing to the public's instinctively primitive tribal emotions that control their thinking; Hatred and anger.
Tell the public Trump is using psychology to control his followers with those instinctive keys.
If many Democrat leaders face up to that without fear and teach the Public, people will reflect on that and eventually realize Trump is using them.
I was thinking today about what a seeming nightmare it is that half the nation likes Trump and then I realized after seeing the crowds at his rallies that the crowd was smaller than I expected and then I realized, the attendees are most likely the most extreme followers. Just like the smaller crowd at his Inauguration, it dawned on me that there is room for improving the mood of the public. In essence, it's not a lost cause to appeal to his followers for calm thought about how they have been reduced to grumbling masses. There is room to redeem them. Teach the public that Trump controls them through hatred and anger. Plant the seeds of inward reflection to save them and the nation.
Haven't we reached the point when Trump "saying" something should not be considered newsworthy - especially as the lead article on the home page? This helps to validate what he "says."
1
This complete fool of a "president" may just discover, in four months, that he absolutely mis-read the mood of the nation.
The Immigration and Customs Enforcement gulag has buried itself in manure so stinking and so deep that no amount of purging and cleaning will ever rid it--or the "president" who directs it--from the shame of institutional child abuse.
As for trade blockades and tariff tolls, Donald Trump will soon realize that the international community doesn't much need us. When you want something and can't have it, you move on to another place where you can find. As usual, the "president" is ignorant of human nature.
And, not so astonishingly, he is digging his gilded heels even deeper into the slime of recalcitrance. He is telling "everyone who owns a Harley-Davidson voted for Trump" that hey are collateral damage as he forges ahead in a quixotic attempt to re-make an international marketplace centered around his whims.
What of the farmers whose produce and products will find no markets beyond our shores? What of the "base," that "easy rider" legion of bikers who saw in the New York real estate cheat a push-button for returning the nation back to an earlier time when they and theirs held full sway over most things cultural and political?
He stokes fear and hatred, his summons to patriotism a banner that whips up the fear of "walking out of your house."
This is no way for an American president to govern a nation. But he's not governing; he's gloating.
7
The halfbaked Trump talk about motorcycles is going to backfire on him. People who lose their jobs at HD or at GM are going to pay the price for his recklessness. Even this master of dark arts can't change what people feel in their wallets.
4
Just a reaction and outpouring of anger at a broken immigration plan to separate families from their children. And in front of it all are big bad hombres with ICE stamped on their backs, carrying "glock pistols" to defend themselves from refugees running from death squads to find a safe haven.
Understandable the reaction, and in a week or so the Democrats will be back to the focus of elections, healthcare, medicaid, more jobs, decent wages, and many other bread and butter issues.
1
Trump is correct about calling for the elimination of Immigration and Customs Enforcement being a loosing strategy. Not because people are afraid of a bad element getting into the country. It will be due to people wanting our immigration laws to be enforced in a humane manner.
The Democrats still don't get it.
10
There, Trump was being his own worst enemy, showing such an indefensibly cruel immigration policy, that even his usual mouthpieces in Congress couldn't bide by him. Even Franklin Graham had choice words for Trump. He was starting to blink...
And now he has been gifted with an untenable idea of abolishing ICE! Fellow Dems, please, focus! Do not change the topic, do not suggest policies which most Congressional Democrats cannot get on board with, and do not give substance to Trump's worst caricatures of liberals!
8
President Trump is dangerous for the country.
3
not true - if it were, to match the far RIGHT - xenophomic, homophobic, and racist -
I am afraid that Trump may well be right if Australia is anything to go by.
We have a Labor party in step with the conservatives harsh view on 'illegal' immigration.
3
The number 4 Democrat was not defeated by a "liberal' candidate -- Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a self-described "socialist" and proud of it. Please consider correcting the article for accuracy.
7
Why are people so afraid of the word ‘socialist’?
Sweeden, Canada and other nations are doing quite well under ’socialism’. The word is not synonymous with communism. But Republicans will push this fallacy that they are the same just to scare their ill informed base.
Wake up base...
4
Obviously we ultimately need some kind of monitoring of the border, but the current members of ICE in many cases seem like people who were just waiting for someone to unleash their most aggressive, cruel tendencies. We need new people in ICE. We need the vet them more carefully, but abolishing ICE instantly is not practical, and it is allowing Trump and Company to again put out the lie that the Democrats want completely open borders and are willing to tolerate immigrants bringing in an unproven wave of crime. At the very least we need to call out all commentators in the media who keep putting out that GOP/Fox News talking point/lie.
1
Will the Dems let me live tax free in America?
2
Of course, driving on muddy rutted dirt roads with no services like police, ambulances, and hospitals. Of course that would be under control of a foreign nation.
4
No question Trump is correct here. And it's a particularly stupid policy position- abolish ICE and you get NICE or some other border enforcement acronym. While Trump continues to be an ignoramus, far Left Democrats are catching up- "Socialists" and anti-border enforcement folks will get 5% of the vote. Just great. If the Democrats don't move right they are doomed in 2018 and 2020.
5
I think people may be getting tired of Trump’s attacks on the American people and the values that are at the core of our democracy. The way Trump, Sessions, Miller and others are putting immigrants in cages and splitting kids and babies is sickening to most Americans. I think some people who have supported Trump may be starting to see the extreme damage Trump is doing to our country while enriching himself and his family.
2
That would be a good argument if it weren’t happening under Obama as well. Those facilities and laws didn’t just pop up since Trump took office. The press and Dems just ignored it while one of their team was in office. All trump did was stop releasing people who snuck into the country illegally
6
All this reality television president is interested in is optics and ratings. And replaying his greatest hits for his base.
What would he do all day if he didn't demean Democrats--- he sounds like the demented man on the porch screaming at clouds. Kicking kids off his lawn. The repetition alone should call for cognitive assessments. Same tune, different day?
Democrats need to stay tough. With Kennedy gone under very weird circumstances involving a bank, we have to concern ourselves with his choice of a right wing conservative toady's decisions on voting rights, death penalty for intellectually challenged + minors, on affirmative action to remedy past exclusions, and on the right for women to choose.
These are the worst of times-- Trump and his corrupt white house and cabinet being the most destructive and demonic ever.
1
This is a diversion.
Trump has been deriding the CIA and the FBI himself. So what?
Where exactly can we found that many people that care about ICE to the point of being offended by the calls to end it?
And how many Democrats actually requested it?
The real news about elections is in FiveThirtyEight and its polls aggregate. Trump's popularity had a subtle upward movement after the photo op with Kim Jong Un; but since the border scandal it turned downwards and is probably falling faster than any time before.
Also, generic ballot is seeing the gap between Dems and Reps increasing in the same period.
But apparently the NYT took the bait from the president.
2
Trump is calling for the doj or FBI to be abolished. It is clear there was some dirty things go8ng on in both during Obama’s term and it’s needs to be exposed.
Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
Why can't my party do anything without shooting itself in the foot?
Our democracy is threatened by the worst president in history, but rather than populist policies that would appeal to all Americans, we're hearing absurd radical proposals that will scare the very voters we need to reach.
Really, at this point, it seems that both major parties are in a contest to self immolate, and take the country with them.
25
And as much as I dislike saying this, he's absolutely right.
Shouting "abolish ICE" and "pretending" it means let's split ICE into 2 separate entities and revisit their practices is as believable to ordinary voter as shouting "BUILD THE WALL!!", which you should, of course, understand as more sensible immigration policy (credit goes to Peter Thiel).
99% of voters (at least) definitely do not favor abolishing ICE and this message is disastrous, especially before midterms and Dems should work really hard to distance themselves from it.
Split ICE into HSI and ERO? Sure, that actually makes sense, even ICE officials seems to favor it. Revisit ICE policies and get rid of inhumane practices? Definitely, no discussion about it.
But to should abolish ICE? That's epic PR disaster. As much as I like Cortez as a person and fresh wind in politics, her program (like abolish ICE) may fly in NYC, maybe in some parts of CA, but it's huge red flag to lot of voters.
Dems need to understand in order to win this country, they must have an appealing program not only for the blue states, but also for moderates in red or swing states. Like or not, this country is center-right and if you want to win the elections (and you should, 'cause the alternative is depressing at least), you need to appeal to majority of voters.
Or, you get another Trump elected.
168
After reading the first three paragraphs of this, I stopped. He's an old man ranting. While we can't ignore him, we can treat him for who he is. . .the old man ranting. . .In the meantime, get out and vote.
53
Same. He’s intolerable. Just an angry, obnoxious ignoramus who failed upwards into an office he disgraces every day of his illegitimate occupation.
5
If Dems run on abolishing ICE, they will not be receiving my vote. Plain and simple. The agency exists for a reason and, to be honest, really isn't this country's biggest problem. Dems really need to be aware of the message they're building for this election season, or it will haunt them really quickly.
143
ICE must be sacrosanct. Just keep on voting for those who support abolishing, decimating or undermining other federal agencies like the EPA, HUD, and the Departments of State , Justice and Veterans Affairs.
3
Why does ICE exist? Why did America persist for over 200 years without it?
1
Instead, Rally upon the Trumtistas, The white mothers calling the police on black children for mowing the lawn, or slapping them in the face at a pool because " they didn't belong." The press being killed in a climate of hostility. the list is unbelievably long, rich, and horrid. Rally around the children in cages and their mothers. Concentrate, concentrate, concentrate.
6
Sorry trump but ICE has become your federal law enforcement attack dog much like the praetorian guard was for the Ceasars!
It needs a complete overhaul.
1
Problem with dems is they are preaching to the choir. Unless they attract enough moderates and right-of-center, dems will do no better in the toss-up electorates they need to win over and above the dependable liberal enclaves.
Talking about abolishing ICE or impeachment is not going to do the trick. What dems need is new blood, young blood to rally voters on both sides.
14
He's right. It's just another example of understandable Leftist rage combined no appreciation of electoral consequences. Sadly, I've watched countless similar examples throughout my life. One would hope by now they'd learn. Clearly that isn't happening.
107
What is lacking is any effective Democratic leadership which could give a voice to the resistance and be given equal weight to counter any of Trump's outrageous comments. It is really time for the Congressional party to select fresh and younger leaders.
7
What we need is for effective Democratic leadership of any age whatsoever to counter Trump's nonsense with some sensible, rational solutions, not more meaningless stuff that doesn't solve any problem, e.g. abolish ICE.
I'm waiting for a Democratic leader to say, "Look, our immigration laws need to be enforced, but we don't have to be cruel and inhumane to do that. We can just do....."
3
Trump is right. Dems are going to lose in November and again in 2020. Why? Because they have no cohesive policy, no message to combat the maelstrom of lies coming from the White House and Trump's Twitter account. Trump's base believes him, up is down, left is right, the lies come so quickly that there isn't time to breathe, let alone make a counter argument. We are in trouble.
95
Im really glad that you have faith in the intelligence of the average American, Trumps base will believe anything, its pointless trying to appeal to those people, the rest of you? I have faith they not that dumb.
1
And, the Democrats have no leader behind whom they can coalesce. As much as I admire Elizabeth Warren and her policies, I fear she is too divisive to lead the party in 2020. Joe Biden would be great — if he were 20 years younger. Cory Booker would be wonderful, but we saw how the last black Democratic leader stiffened the spines of Mitch McConnell, Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows and the Tea Party, and a certain real estate developer who loudly protested his citizenship and thus his legitimacy; no, sadly, America as a whole is still not ready for a non-white political leader. We Democrats need a messenger as well as a message.
3
That's Trump's game: Insults, attacks, lies. But, no, the calls to abolish ICE are growing by those who take offense at children being taken from their parents and put into cages. They're storm troopers and have no place in society. This will ensure that plenty of Democrats are passionate about the issues and committed to vote in the midterms. Watch out, Mr. President, the Blue Wave is coming.
14
I agree with you about the children. However, Border Patrol (which separated the children) and ICE are two different bureaucracies.
1
ICE is an enforcement agency - it doesn't create the law or the policy. Congress and the President do that. Let's pay attention to how our government works.
4
Tactically, calls to abolish ICE are foolish unless the Democrats are fairly certain that their base agrees.
They should have taken more polls before coming out with that demand.
The latest poll shows that 60% of Democratic voters do not want to abolish ICE.
If they don't even have their own base on their side, they're making a big mistake.
243
If supposedly 60% of registered Democrats don’t support it (I question that statistic as low given other articles), then what about moderates and the center-left not registered as Democrats? I count myself part of that group and the implications on future entitlements (existing and proposed), wages / income disparity, and unemployment in outer years if immigration and hiring essentially goes unchecked beyond the border seriously concern me.
Trump is right. The Democrats will be handing him a gift with a big bow and ribbon on top if this becomes the national platform.
2
Does anybody actually think Trump cares about Americans, especially the average American? He is an absolutely terrible human being who is casually making decisions that have a profound effect on billions of lives simply to move polls and make money for a few chosen billionaires and his family.
This is the tragedy of my lifetime!
210
Not just our tragedy; but look whose entering the plane
FIRST!
5
Where should I start?You mean well but wrong on so many ways.You make assumptions based on your feelings and not on facts.If you have billions already you realize it is all so hollow and try to do good.Look at Bill Gates,Rockefellers,Carnegie etc.Trump is motivated by tribalism,narcissism not the best way to heaven but over state the facts and you play into his hand
1
So focus on immobilizing, and in due course ejecting from the Oval Office the "terrible human being who is making ..... decisions that have a profound effect on billions of lives simply to move poles and make money for a few chosen billionaires and his family".
DNC, also known as Idiots, are intent on handing the mid terms to Trump. Abolish the ICE, really, thats the platform? Why does Tom Perez still run the DNC? Perez Hilton could do a better job.
314
Ouch!
2
Dems need to be talking about "fair" immigration, national health care, free college tuition and job creation. Trump and the Republicans have failed miserably in all of those categories.
3
Follow the money, I guess.
1
ICE has used some shady tactics that no one agrees with but a complete abolishment is a bit extreme. Reforming ICE from the ground up would be a better resolution. Changing ICE policies and leadership is a far better solution than completely disbanding it and trying to figure out a completely new organization.
167
Again, Americans listen to Trump equating immigration with "rampant and uncontrollable" crime.
We're better than this. Peacefully, lovingly, persistently we'll turn back this tide of racism, hatred, and fear. It's going on now with marches and protests and yes, even social media posts. We don't stop talking about this. Then we vote for law makers who look ahead to working out the complex challenges of immigration, who don't stoop to the lowest levels of selfish attacks on others.
45
Draw the distinction between legal immigrants and illegal ones and I'm with you. Throw open the borders as the Democrats want to do with no enforcement and I really have to side with Trump for the sake and safety of this country.
19
Show me where anyone but trump has said they want to "throw open the borders".
Trump has gone on the attack against America and everything else in his sights.......When will the adults stop the disaster in progress boy king?
20
I don't know, Warren. He's taken a particular interest in targeting California (and we've earned it), but he likes what he views as the real America and that's not CA.
2
Calling for the elimination of ICE is a losing issue for Democrats. Every country has an Immigration Enforcement branch - which is totally fine. The problem is the policies, laws and guidelines under which ICE operates. I think most people in this country can agree that some form of border security is a good thing - we should know who is coming in and out of this country. The fringe in the Democrat party - who aren't really Democrats but have nowhere else to go - are going to ruin any chance we have to gain meaningful power in this country - as they've done in 2000, 2016 - and heaven forbid 2018. Are we better off now than we were when Nader blew 2000 for us - I would say NO!
606
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to those who advocate for open borders, a condition that no sovereign nation can or will ever appove.
The US cannot afford to support its own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is thus impossible for US taxpayers to support the hundreds of millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US. That is why there are laws limiting the numbers of immigrants allowed into the US each year. Every nation in the world has laws that limit immigration.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is teaching foreigners how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.; that is, to violate US laws.
By the way, those hoping for Democratic progress in the mid-terms (and 2020) will have to kiss their dreams goodbye if open borders becomes a plank in the Democratic platform.
5
I'm one of those fringe people you reference and, yup, I will do everything in my power to ruin it for you and the Democrats until you and they get your priorities straight.
You are right about one thing though. I am no longer a Democrat having left the party following the 2016 nomination of Clinton and the election of Pelosi, Schumer and Perez to lead the Democrats. Not going to follow losers anymore.
1
Senator Gilibrand is not on the fringe of Democrats. Nor is the NYC mayor. It helps to understand why they do so although it is challenging to make those people go beyond big words.
The focus on ICE is reflexive and impulsive in these desperate times led by the man who is responsible for the conduct of ICE. Democrats should instead talk about winning back Congress where policy can be changed or modified. Simply acting primordal like Trump is what he wants. He wants to fight anyone and everyone. Don't satisfy the thuggery he displays. Remember that intelligence always succeeds over brute force and that's how you win. Don't just calmly dignify yourselves. Formulate good ideas and get them out there. Beat him at his won game, take to the podiums. Work to replace the policymakers that turned ICE into a force feared by all.
259
It is not all reflexive and impulsive. It does not seem the case. Politicians don't do things in a reflexive or impulsive manner. I can come up with a few reasons, but no point to speculate.
Trump won election by attacking the CIA, FBI and NSA. ICE is trivial by comparison.
1
This is precisely what I've feared all along; the Democrats will take a winning hand and squander it, like we did in 2016. All the nonsensical talk about impeaching Trump, abolishing ICE, and "socialism" plays into the GOP's hands. That sort of talk might be welcome in Maxine Waters' district, or the Bronx, but it doesn't play well in the Midwest, and that is where we must flip seats if we want to take control of at least one house of Congress. It's been people like Conor Lamb and Doug Jones who have succeeded where we need to succeed, not flame-throwing leftists.
By-the-by, socialism has deservedly ended up on the dust heap of history (remember the USSR?); do we really want THAT as our rallying cry?
496
Socialism is not what we need. But we do need policies that are not based on divisive policies that ignore the needs of the 99%. Those who support the common good, rather than the few, could describe their position as socialistic. Not to be confused with socialism. I believe in democratic principles that are concerned with the well-being of all citizens: socialistic but not socialism.
It's long past time to recognize that our continual wars of choice in countries that haven't attacked us are very damaging to us as well as the innocents that re killed.
1
Socialism is not the same as communism, but it probably is to most in the Midwest because because Republicans conflate them. Many European and Scandinavian countries have socialistic programs, like nationalized health care and have higher life expectancies and lower health care costs per capita compared to the US, but again, Midwesterners won't care to understand this for the midterms. Democrats have to focus on how tariffs will hurt the Midwest and tax cuts have not helped the middle class and below.
I think what will wind up in the dust heap of history is unbridled out of control capitalism.
1
ICE is an enforcement agency and it's just kind of not smart to advocate abolishing it. Why don't Democrats advocate hiring enough judges to take care of the backlog of 700,000 asylum claims so that hearings can be held in a timely manner and those entitled to asylum can obtain it and move on with their lives? Those not entitled can be deported rather than detained for months or longer at the expense of the American taxpayer. This seems like a no-brainer to me but I have not heard one pol on the left or right advocate this obvious solution. Kind of makes one think that they really aren't looking for solutions - it's too profitable to play the issue for donations and votes.
304
ICE was founded as a reaction to 911. That was 17 years ago! We did not need it before and after 17 years it’s safe to say that we do not need anymore. There are better ways to keep the countey save.
1
Both Democrats and Republicans called for more Judges on the border. Trump said no. He doesn't want more Judges to adjudicate cases. He's idea is simple, enforcement officers capture, Judge and sentence.
Sorry you didn't hear about it.
4
"Why don't Democrats advocate hiring enough judges to take care of the backlog of 700,000 asylum claims so that hearings can be held in a timely manner and those entitled to asylum can obtain it and move on with their lives?"
Because the overwhelming majority 90+% of Central American migrants won't qualify and then they will have to admit they are just economic migrants and all this asylum talk has just been marketing for their real goal of increasing the number of illegal immigrants in the country.
7
Abolishing, reforming, or replacing ICE is perfectly reasonable. But if the Democrats let Trump & the GOP & Fox make the whole political campaign be about immigration, the Democrats will lose. The idea that immigration is a national emergency is a lie concocted by Trump to benefit himself. Democrats should give their ideas about immigration, especially since Fox & the Republicans keep lying about what Democrats advocate. But they should base their campaigns on jobs, fair taxation, medical care, etc--bread & butter economic issues that unite immigrants and natives, instead of dividing them.
389
Obviously neither you nor the NYT think the natural environment is much of an emergency. More people = more carbon, more pollution, less housing, less water, fewer trees and expensive food.
7
Very well summarized.
When do we start the boycott of Fox sponsors?
In these mid-terms and the election in 2020 I don't think the issues will drive the outcomes as much as how many voters watch Fox for all their news and how many obtain news and information from a variety of sources.
Stories about this topic need to mention that ICE has only existed since the panicky creation of the Homeland Security bureaucracy after 9/11, like TSA and many other new agencies created at that time, and that experienced law-enforcement professionals agree this new bureaucracy is riddled with failures of mission clarity, performance and oversight.
To succeed at its own mission of informing the public and telling coherent atories, the Times must include history and context, even -- in fact Especially -- if this administration and its supporters may be unaware of it.
There's no rush with a story like this; you have time to briefly say how America managed without ICE for 225 years and the reasons that have been given for abolishing it. Resist the temptation to dumb down your reporting to the White House level -- that degrades all of us.
95
Yes, but I.C.E. has taken immigration and immigration related laws off the backs of local and state law enforcement and agencies. This is a good thing, allowing police to serve and protect, but not abdicating the notion that laws are on the books and should be followed. Reform, don’t abolish I.C.E. Trump won’t be president forever.
panicky over 9/11? How is one suppose to react to a major terrorist attack that took down major buildings and killed how many? A country needs to protect its borders and to know who is coming in. Lets reduce our surveillance so its easier for heroin and other extremely harmful drugs get in. Not a Trumper and would never vote for him but he is right on this one.
2
The idea of abolishing ICE is largely attributable to Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. What she said about is the following:
NY-14 is 50 percent immigrant, including naturalized U.S. citizens and undocumented people. Immigration is a top three issue in our community because it speaks directly to the stability of working families here. When I’m advocating for a working-class agenda, for the safety and security of working-class people, it means healthcare, housing and immigration. They’re issues of, “Can I stay here tomorrow?”
If there is any seat in America that is advocating for the abolishment of ICE it should be NY14. It is a district that is 85 percent Democratic. We have very little to risk by taking bold and ambitious positions. Even for those who aren’t immigrants, we are all so deeply invested in the lives and the future of immigrant families in NY-14, and everybody here cares about this issue.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez wisely framed her argument as good for her district. She did not suggest that it was a viable option for the Democrats as a whole. I don't know if other Democrats were as careful. But Ms. Ocasio's message, that abolishing ICE is aspirational, not necessarily practical, is the right message, and if anyone went further that was a strategic error.
68
No, it's not just Ocasio-Cortez. It's the head of the DNC's refusing to state his position on abolishing ICE. It's the Democratic Party's leadership, Nancy Pelosi's, talking about vicious gang members' "divinity". It's the Democratic Party's self-proclaimed feminist, NYS Senator Gillibrand's, support for abolishing ICE. It's also NYC Mayor De Blasio's along with Senator Elizabeth Warren's. These are not fringe players. Vox claims the calls for abolishing ICE are starting to go mainstream.
5
Prioritize
1. Income inequality. It affects 99%. It dooms our future. It'll take heavy lifting to solve. Focus.
2. Health Care. It affects 66%. It cuts wages, hurts businesses, shortens lives. Simplistic slogans won't work.
3. Education. It affects 33%. Without it people are hopeless and ignorant. College debt squanders futures.
Talk about ICE, LGBT, guns, and mobilize 5% here, 10% there.
Do the math.
198
I completely agree. We have been saying the same stuff at home.
I am so sick of hearing about:
1. illegal immigration
2. abortion
3 gay rights
Enough already. Do something for the majority of us. Forget about the 5% of homosexual and transgendered.
For the women who all claim they must have an abortion, maybe next time think twice before unprotected sex. It is not supposed to be a form of birth control.
For the illegal immigrants, I'm sorry. You have to go back and fix your own country. That's how it works.
6
When things get tough, democrats go left. One very serious challenge for democrats is that when their leaders are challenged and/or their message threatened, they veer left. Pelosi's defending the "divinity" of gang members was obvious political pandering. No one with any common sense would say what these democrats are saying.
Well said. But it's not just the math - it's what's right for an advanced society. And let us not forget other vitally important priorities: climate change, renewable energy and infrastructure. All of these Democratic core policies have fallen by the wayside in recent decades.
2
Abolishing an agency does not mean abolishing its mission. ICE was born in a crises by taking duties away from other agencies and was intended to be short term. Unfortunately, it has abused its power and overstayed its original mandate. The Democrats should not fall for the GOP bait. Rather, they should embrace it with a blanket of more and better law enforcement. Run on reforming ICE to make its mission more effective and its people more responsive. For every pithy Republican and White House claim or insult, they should respond with the equivalent "shame" using a pithy description of mismanagement and corruption.Democrats should not be wonky in response to lying by the GOP and especially the President. Most of all, they should not run scared like a number of the responses here are already doing.
71
Democrats need to come up with more ctachy three word phrases, like "Catch and Release". Why are Republicans so good at that?
yeah!!
There is no future for this country if the democrats go off on these tangents. To win this country back the democrats need to concentrate on the citizens & their problems. There is still no really good healthcare, no new roads & railways, no strong solutions for Medicare & Social Security, wages have not gone up as promised by tax cuts...Democrats need to stop this program that feeds trump’s base. Democrats need to hold town halls & hear the voters concerns. Warren, Pelosi, & Schumer have all been in office too long & have lost touch with the real world of the little guy. I am worried about healthcare, being able to afford food, housing, & gas prices. I am worried about having clean air & water. I am worried about having freedom of speech, freedom to vote, & freedom of life not threatened by macho males with guns in McDonalds. I am not really worried about abolishing ICE. If a new administration got in, ICE could be abolished then. Change the administration first, then worry about ICE. It didn’t come under the lense until trump started using it for abuse. Start at the top of the problem & work down.
139
"Democrats need to stop this program that feeds trump’s base."
Tell us one thing that does not feed this Trump and his supporters.
Keep in mind Trump and his supporters current get off putting babies and children in cages in jail.
Hearing them cry for their parents just makes Trump and his supporters cheer with laughter.
These people have totally lost it.
You really have no idea just what kind of people Trump and his supporter are.
Keep acting like you can reason with them and see where that gets you. These people are beyond reason.
Currently they are out to give out maximum pain and misery any way they can and they are using our laws and courts to do it.
Nostradamus: I agree with just about everything you say. However, I would point out that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have criticized some of the actions of ICE, such as separating families, detaining some people legally in the country because of their looks, etc., but neither has called for ICE to be abolished. Elisabeth Warren has called for it, but she has only been in office for one term. The call to abolish ICE is not coming from Democratic leadership in Congress, who are criticizing it for the reasons you discuss. Gillibrand and Warren are dead wrong on this one. Even Bernie Sanders isn't for it, and he is getting criticized by many of his followers for it. Maybe Bernie has learned a lesson, although many of his busters apparently haven't.
1
Elizabeth Warren was first elected to office in 2012. That was only 7 years ago. Too long?
Life in the US has worsened since 9/11. Overreaction to 19 young men committing suicide has brought us to a police state where everyone is now looking over their shoulder. We've lost trust and confidence in one another. We've become blind to the majority of us who are simply good people. We've been duped into believing no one can be trusted. Our worst nightmare: We are now enemies to friend and foe.
ICE should be abolished or at least revised to reflect the good in all of us. The US is NOT a police state, nor should it be one.
Republicans would like nothing more than to control our every breath. We need to live our lives without the fears that the likes of Trump and his ilk insist upon.
I'd like to think that the majority of Americans are smarter and wiser than Trump... I'm beginning to have my doubts.
48
To 99.99% of American voters abolishment of ICE equals open borders.
6
Sorry, Trump is right again. Ice has been around only 15 years and its debatable if we need it but even if some Democrats are right how do they look, what's the perception? Dems care more about others than us. They say perception is everything.
The same lies about crime caused by illegals (insert crime statistics that reinforce your beliefs pro or con) are taking place in Europe. Why have both sides adopted the same tatics? All we get is division and nothing gets done. The other complicated problems our country has to face get ignored. I know its the Russians.
How do progressives handle our own internal refugee problem? 64,000 living in homeless shelters in NYC. God knows how many live in the street. Many states are giving free bus and plane tickets. Problem solved.
76
Trump again blowing up a non issue to throw red meat to the base. Vote out GOP for change. PS MSM stop giving Trump free publicity
2
See Matthew 25 : 31-46.
Trump's German grandfather fled to America in order to avoid criminal prosecution and imprisonment for illegally dodging the German military draft. His Trump heirs exempllify his cowardly dishonorable and unpatriotic nature and nurture.
The worst illegal and immoral invasion in American history was the arrival of white Judeo-Christian Europeans and their enslaved African property to steal Native land and resources.
2
Homelessness isn't caused by refugees.
Abolishing ICE because their focus and direction is misapplied and needs strong democratic adult leadership is a bad idea, just like idea of abolishing the presidency because we have an incompetent currently occupying that position. Because there appears to be compassion coupled with a sense of the security requirement on both sides of the Congressional aisles, how about putting partisanship aside and work towards a viable solution for the problem? Beef up the immigration assessment component of ICE and add more judges, open more ports of entry and use the money currently allocated for the National Guard at the border to pay for some of the improvements. The first step is to remove the divisive language of Trump who characterizes immigrants as something akin to vermin.
45