This is a strange article, logically speaking. The first part describes a trade off, leading to remarkable academic and professional success, but asking if the anxiety and resentment it lead to was worth it. The author second generation Asian success, e.g., that 73% of Stuyvesant students are Asian, to the harsh, authoritarian way he and they were raised.
Not wanting to put that pressure on his children, he moves towards a relationship-driven model instead of one emphasizing discipline. I assumed he was going to say that there is more to life than external success, some of which might have to be sacrificed for a fuller, happier life. But then he switches to saying that his way actually leads to more success than his father's way, contradicting the first half of the article.
My question: Does the success of tiger parenting also include critical thinking skills?
91
An unfortunate consequence of Mr. Park's opinion piece, and other tiger mom-model minority narratives, is that they reinforce sweeping stereotypes about Asian Americans and the varying circumstances in which Asian American young people grow up (as some of the other comments show). Class matters, and my guess is that most of the children in Ivy League high achievement stories like those of Mr. Park and Amy Chua were raised by parents who (unlike the sub minimum wage Chinese restaurant deliverymen or the elderly Asians who collect recycling cans that I see here in my neighborhood), while immigrants, are highly educated and middle class. Yet these elite personal narratives will justify denial of resources and avenues of upward mobility to the children of poorer, working class families. Narratives like Mr. Park's, despite the insight that they offer, will also reinforce the tendency of at least some whites and others to view racism and marginalization against and of Asians as less objectionable than that against other groups.
58
A nice, but very old story repackaged as something new. Jews have been doing this in the US for over 150 years. The fact that Park finds himself somewhat unique (as an Asian) neglects the fact that this is not a new story. The current generation, as most uninformed people, lacks knowledge of American history, which is replete with first, second and subsequent generation issues. Their perceived plight would be much easier if they would stop looking in the mirror and recognize the many millions who preceded them with the same challenges. The number of Times opinion pieces replete with self-pity and a sense of uniqueness shows how little they know of others, and of the long stream of history that preceded them.
55
A very thoughtful article.
10
ou may have heard the old proverb, “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.” In Japan, the expression goes, “Rice paddies to rice paddies in three generations.” The Scottish say “The father buys, the son builds, the grandchild sells, and his son begs.” In China, “Wealth never survives three generations.”
52
I think it is worth noting that "tiger parents" are known for viewing only a handful of career options for their children (medicine, law, investment banking, maybe private equity/hedge fund management?) as acceptable. Academia isn't one of them, because of the lower pay. Not a great situation for professors of undergraduate classes at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, I would imagine. Although professors at those schools are paid much more than the national average, I suppose one downside is that they are teaching in classrooms filled with students who have been conditioned (the ones raised by tiger parents) to feel utter contempt for the career path that their professors chose.
Just further evidence that far too many people view America's top universities as "brands" for networking rather than places to learn.
35
So much for the
Traditional Asian model for learning. It's more of a model that would have been developed by Marqui de Sade or Genghis Khan. It's similar though to those here in the West who want to indoctrinate their kids into a certain religion. Brainwashing, in other words. It's tolerated and encouraged all over the world, no surprise we have mentally ill people roaming around the world by the billions. "Tiger Parents"= "Terror Parents", or how to terroize young , innocent children and turn them into potential ticking time bombs. Humanity: you gotta love "god's" creation.
11
In other words, just like so many parents of all races and backgrounds, you are trying to undo the wrongs — perceived or real — your parents did to you. You are trying to get it right — be the perfect parent. There is nothing specifically Asian or second-generation immigrant about that. The thing to keep in mind is that your parents probably had the same goal.
38
What’s more, as black people from a variety of backgrounds tend to be painted with one broad stereotypical brush, their hard-work and accomplishments are usually ignored; as are the sacrifices and struggles of their parents.
For example, it would probably surprise most Americans that blacks read, let alone that black female college graduates are the most avid of all readers:
The Most Likely Person to Read a Book? A College-Educated Black Woman
In its look at the adoption of electronic book formats, Pew Research stumbled onto an interesting data point. The most likely person to read a book — in any format — is a black woman who's been to college.
PHILIP BUMP
Jan 16, 2014
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/01/most-likely-pe...
Furthermore, and this is where racism again rears its ugly head, it is really a group of black immigrants to the US, those from Africa, NOT Asians, are actually the most educated group in America. Still, few know about it:
African immigrants are more educated than most — including people born in U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-expl...
32
“I’ll embrace the decline.”
That is highly unlikely. Phone me when your children live out mediocre lives.
Every study refutes your otherwise interesting piece.
Your high mindedness is part of the storied income gap: two educated professionals with lots of discretionary income in one home, kvetching about social injustice.
If you want to help your kids, voluntarily give away half your income so they can experience life as normal Americans. THAT would be genuine effort on your part.
I look forward to hearing of their Amherst acceptances.
72
'Exitium amet' would be more apt than 'E pluribus unum.'
3
Tiger parents are not dying out because new Asian immigrants continue to arrive all the time. There is no end in sight to the waves of first generation overparented Asians.
18
We raised our kids the way Mr. Park wants to, cultivating autonomy and individuality. They became achievers because they wanted to be, not because we imposed discipline on them. Both of them are passionate, self-motivated, happy, and at top universities.
Once, when staying at a friend's house - she was obsessed with the fact that my daughter was a Cantabrigian - we picked up Tiger Mom and read it out loud. To us, it was a laughable, indeed evil, pathway to success without joy. I mean, refusing to allow her children to have friends? Requiring study during summer vacation? It's sick. It's not worth it to live that way.
23
"My daughters might someday bring home grades that my father would have regarded as failures. If so, I embrace the decline."
Well. Bully for you.
But why tell me? Why tell anyone?
Why not do what you do, and let others do what they do?
And be done.
19
There is another factor that all racial and ethnic minorities know, and usually prefer not to talk about very much, if they acknowledge it at all: you WILL be discriminated against in the market. Excelling academically is one of the very few things you can do to mitigate the discrimination you will encounter.
45
I often wonder how the children of tiger parents turn out ... not as parents, but as managers in various work environments.
23
Not mentioned in this article is the following crucial point: Tiger parenting deserves to go extinct because self-proclaimed tiger parents tend to be malignant narcissists. That has been the case, without question, at least since the time when having children in developed countries ceased being a necessity and became more of a lifestyle option and a path to "achievement" for parents. It's probably very painful for the many Asian-Americans (and others) who were raised by tiger parents to admit or even just realize this about their mothers and fathers, but it is true.
Read Amy Chua's book and you will come away with that impression. Among people who actually read Chua's 2011 book, I would like to think most are surprised that people are still debating the merits of tiger parenting 7 years later (because there really aren't any).
To young adults who are not parents: If you wish to have children because you are a ruthless, type A, insecure, overachieving alpha man or woman who wishes to outcompete your peers, my advice to you is don't have children. There are enough children in this world growing up unhappy.
45
Very refreshing, but a little confused. As immigrants with little financial legacy, there is a desperation to ensure that our children will have a secure life. This fear drives Asian parents to police their children in harsh ways.
My husband and I have chosen to be outliers. We are first generation immigrants, but, we were lucky to have grown up in carefree atmospheres in India, indeed a rarity. That freedom we experienced ensured our success amidst failures of many kinds. It was the failures that shaped our attitudes towards life. It was these failures that convinced us to pursue happiness over achievement. And we walked into not just soul satisfying joy, but wild success by Asian standards. The former ensuring the latter.
We believe like you, in acting as guides for our children. But we don't believe in strict guidelines. We are firm believers that children should be able to make choices. We believe in setting an example with the fond hope that, the choices we make will influence their decisions. This myth of firmness being necessary is akin to a stick coated with rubber. The blows hurt but seemingly leave no scars. The idea is to love and understand. Respect is a weird status to demand as a parent. We want a lifelong friendship not a hierarchy where we command respect.
23
The irony in this account is that, with respect to China, the over-achievement ends at high school. There is not a single top university in the country. In China, getting to a university is the goal. In the US, which university you get into is considered critical. The Chinese who are suing for admission into elite colleges have used the rigor of their high school years to achieve what would not have been available at home, a clear case of seeking the best of both worlds.
9
I’ve never commented in the past, but I’ve felt this urge to share my story, for I am also a sufferer of this upbringing.
I am in a situation that is a little unique from other typical Asian-Americans. I am currently a senior at a boarding school. Both my parents are true Koreans who live in Korea. I was sent to the States at the end of my elementary years, and had guardians take care of me thereafter. Being sent at such a young age, I was able to assimilate into the American culture and society. My Korean began to deteriorate, and I am now a proud citizen who no longer gives much care to his country of origin.
Yet, the stringent parenting that entailed having Asian parents continued, despite the fact that my parents lived on the other side of the planet. Every single break off from school, I am forced into returning to Korea, where I have to attend academies and struggle with the differences in culture and society. Hence, at the moment, I feel deprived of a social life, and struggle to find my place in a social circle. Certainly, the plan that my parents forced upon me have furthered me; I am now in the process of applying to some of the greatest colleges in the country (and I am very grateful for it). However, in my humble opinion, the hardships that I have endured and am currently enduring are not warranted.
Just as the author has, I will never force upon my children any plan that I may devise; they will only feel my support and love for them.
105
There appears to be a confusion here about what defines success, or what makes one happy ?
Success, in my mind is to be able to provide your family a good education, roof above the head, food, clothes, healthcare and a few vacations every year. Not luxury, just a decent life. And that's what I think makes one happy.
The reality is, in today’s America, the above is slowly getting unattainable for the average person.
In a utopian society, or may be in some North European countries with very strong social safety nets, it doesn’t matter whether a kid works hard towards a career with definite earnings potential or not.
Not here. And we are doing a disservice to our kids by not telling them that.
26
As a child of immigrants that left Korea in the late 70s and wandered across South America and having arrived to the US in my teens, I have not had the upbringing that the author has had. But one thing was very clear at home, there would be no exception to having missed school and having missing school work. More than the immigrant background that I was raised with, perhaps it was the fact that we lived in poorer countries than the US, places where education pretty much ended with a HS diploma.
I have been reading many of these second generation experiential articles and it seems as they are more prevalent now than when I was a college student.
The problem that I have with the idea of becoming "Americanized" is that I do not subscribe nor accept some of the standards that have becoming prevalent in the academic field now, that in order to raise happy, wholesome adults, that they need to be taught that there are "infinite opportunities" in life....in classroom talk it means, make ups, looking the other way in terms of lateness and attendance and the like. Watered down academics and achievements that translate to things like "attendance awards."
There are no clear answers to this dilemma of raising children in our society today. How do we achieve happiness? Through emotional and forgiving households but... if we cannot achieve the basics that we need to live, will it be fine?
12
"If that means the next generation will have fewer virtuoso violinists and neurosurgeons, well, I still embrace the decline."
While I can identify with nearly every aspect of Mr. Park's upbringing, and certainly the single-minded nature of of the 'near-religious' zeal that Asian-immigrant parents place on education -- he sorely misses the point of his own essay by embracing any perceived 'mediocrity' of his daughters as a 'decline.' It is doubly surprising given his academic and professional pedigree, that he would miss the obvious lessons taught by the Fathers of the American Republic on this very topic.
The self-absorbed hubris of Asian-immigrants who readily compare their accomplishments, scores, admission rates, income, etc. in demographic terms only reinforce the stereotype that our community is incapable of growing past our collective emotional adolescence.
Mr. Park should know better, having read at Amherst and Harvard, and later serving two Supreme Court Justices. Along the way he might have read John Adams:
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy... in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture..."
Unlike Mr. Park, John Adams understood that real success meant providing his children the freedom to pursue that which enobled humanity.
Mr. Park may well 'embrace' the 'decline' -- Adams would have celebrated it.
69
I’m a 1st generation Asian immigrant myself and belong to one of the two so called prestigious occupations according to this article. My parents were tough in the beginning. Dad made sure I knew that studying hard was the only way to having a decent life. At the same time I remember having a carefree childhood. Playing outside all day in summer vacations, visiting relatives for weeks... However by the time I turned 12, I was self propelled. By the time I was 17, Mom was telling me to take it easy !
I have nothing but respect and admiration for my parents for what they did.
My take is that if we just tell kids to follow their passion and support them even if they want to be a rockstar, that’s a mistake. More than just pushing them to study hard, it upto us to tell them the reality. The term “Starving Artist” is there for a reason.
The irony of all this is that now I’m married to a 2nd generation immigrant who despite being successful herself had an easier childhood than me having being brought up here. So we’re trying a mix of the American and Asian style with our kid, and so far, I’m losing. It’s still early though...
26
As a second generation Korean American married to another 2GKA, I believe Ryan has described well the change in parenting style that many of our generation are deliberately making. I would like to hear more from him in ten years, when his children have reached college age, as I suspect his daughters are still quite young. When our kids are young, we secretly nurture the hope that we can have it both ways, but the choices bite harder when our children age into adulthood without the safety net of an Ivy League degree. As for me and my wife, we rest in our choice, but it is not without its cost.
19
I'm a little confused. Not Asian myself, but I grew up in the San Francisco public school system and certainly met my share of tiger parented kids (also not all Asian). My overwhelming impression was that engineering and medicine were the sanctioned subjects. Law was considered a bit disreputable, a sign that you couldn't handle the really difficult math or science in college and were falling back to plan B.
Has this changed? Is poly science followed by law considered a tiger-approved career path?
8
Jeff, As long as its Harvard law, Yale law or Stanford law it's tiger approved.
16
An honest and truly just society would look at the success of Asian Americans, who are subject to tremendous racism, and ask why African Americans haven't been able to make significant gains in test scores. I think it is likely that the answer lies in the family unit. I think it would benefit our society and African Americans in general if we took a closer look at this issue. Lets stop pretending that children of single parents aren't disadvantaged - sure they can excel - but the deck is staked against them, especially if they are raised in poverty. Unfortunately this is the case for a large portion of African American children. Lets address this issue rather than trying to level the paying field later in life - when its too late.
24
I think the answer lies in the relative measure of racism, first and foremost.
Asians know they have to work extremely hard to overcome the racial barriers they find. But they do know it is possible to overcome them. It is not a superhuman task.
Do African Americans know the same thing? Or do they know instead that they will very probably suffer the same racism no matter what they do?
When I read a comment like this one, I also have to wonder -- precisely what is meant here by "success?" Working hard and being paid well for the work you do are two different things. Good work isn't always rewarded. It is often punished. And whether rewarded or punished depends far too often on who's doing it.
By the way, you did know that many of America's very finest writers and its truly groundbreaking musicians were black, right?
25
I think there was a bit of conflictual comment when it was said that the evidence reports tough parenting does not produce achievement the same way that a 'mixed' one do, yet was extolled at the end.
In the very first place there is a stereotype that all or even most Asian parents are authoritarian, rather than kind and open to love. This myth is propagated by those who often speak up and who has gone through such stresses in their own lives. But it often conflates the direct cause of their achievement (more time spent on work) to the general parenting styles of Asians as a whole which makes up an extremely large, diverse and complex population, both immigrant and not.
It creates an aura and essentializes a quality about 'Asian-ness' that simplifies and reduces the dimensions of what Asians - Chinese, Filipino, Indian, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Nepalese, Thai - can ultimately experience. These commentary, usually written by well to do elite Asians, drowns out the multitude of differences, desires, hopes, dreams, and sentiments that differs vastly from this straightforward narrative. It negates the economic, social and geographic divide that exists also in every Asian society and country, and the countries that they immigrate to.
Perhaps more can be done to present a deeper, more multi-dimensional, varied portrait, so as to interrogate the concept of 'Asian-ness', which has far too long been dominated by one view.
16
I can't help but ask, what does success look like in the future? I grew up with immigrant parents who were poor, and despite my laziness I do understand the formula for success is being determined and persistent. I think the main struggle for 2nd Gen is that we were raised to be YAPPIES, to take the safe route for success. We've become doctors, laywers, engineers, accountants, etc. Perhaps we can nurture more, but I have a sense that despite our best intentions it does not gurantee that our children will be happy, confident or kind. I've seen many young adults struggle who come from loving and nururing parents but thanks to social media and peer perceptions they struggle with fomo, body image, social status and idenity.
5
As another lawyer born to immigrant parents, thank you for writing this. I think if more Asian children were able to have the choice to pick non-stereotypical “successful” professions, they would be much happier and more well rounded on the whole. I love being a lawyer now, but this career choice requires too many sacrifices and years of hard work to impose on children who don’t want it - you might agree.
On another note, parents can choose to push their children to overcome challenges and not be a tiger parent. You are not failing your daughters because you are working towards and thinking of ways to make them better people who are true to themselves. There are also ways to teach kids to be tenacious and overcome obstacles without being a tiger parent. Best of luck to you and your family - I have a feeling that your kids will grow up to be great people because they have a great dad.
10
My family pretty much came on the Mayflower (no, really). My maternal grandparents were both college grads, but only one of their three grandchildren went to college. My aunt's son dropped out of college during his first year and eventually had 5 kids, most of whom dropped out of high school.
13
I'm 2nd/3rd generation Eastern European Jew. You describe my family of the mid-20th century. While there is still an emphasis on good schools/education it is nothing like prior generations as we become/became assimilated.
15
I do this with my kids. I've found that the schools, whether public or private, cannot teach children enough in one day, let alone in a ten month school year. Basics, like multiplication tables, are presented in class for a while but then not followed up on until later, when it's needed for further math lessonns. By then many students don't understand why they can't progress in the subject. They react and say things like :"I'm just not a math person". I've caught teachers - in both the private and public education sectors - skipping whole sections of the proscribed curriculum for the year.
Much of the school day is filled with fluff to make it bearable for students and teachers.
I'm all for project based and creative learning if there's an academic component that balances it out. This is what I do at home, including on Saturdays and during summer vacations.
I don't say this out of ignorance - I've taught university level courses for over a decade and I see what students are lacking when they come to university.
This isn't anything new- my experience as a parent draws from educating five children over a span of 30 years. My youngest is now 6 and has just completed kindergarten.
23
I humbly submit that articles like this one should at least
reference widely available data indicating that Asian immigrants are not the only group striving for high academic achievement in their offspring as the key to success.Recent data shows that Nigerian Americans have a higher percent of their population with advanced degrees than Asian Americans.
HOUSTON CHRONICLE,Jan 12 2018:
Nigerian immigrants have the highest levels of education in this city and the nation, surpassing whites and Asians, according to Census data bolstered by an analysis of 13 annual Houston-area surveys conducted by Rice university.Although they make up <1% of the U.S. population a whopping 17 percent of all Nigerians in this country held master's degrees. 4% hold doctorates, according to the 2006 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. In addition, 37 % had bachelor's degrees.To put those numbers in perspective, 8 percent of the white population in the U.S. had master's degrees, according to the Census survey. And 1 percent held doctorates. About 19 percent of white residents had bachelor's degrees. Asians come closer to the Nigerians with 12 percent holding master's degrees and 3 percent having doctorates.The Nigerian numbers are "strikingly high," said Roderick Harrison, demographer at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington, D.C., think tank that specializes in researching black issues. "There is no doubt that these are highly e
27
The idea of the "third generation decline" is not limited to immigrants; it's been observed throughout American culture as a whole. When I was in college, we called it the "three generation rule of wealth".
The first generation works hard to become successful, sacrificing both time and personal luxuries in order to build a business. The second generation, who spent most of their childhood when their families were not yet wealthy, picked up their parent's work ethic and willingness to sacrifice in the present to build a future. The third generation grew up being rich and know little about the work and sacrifices that were necessary to create that wealth.
24
This is not something especially American and it certainly is nothing new. It is well known in many countries... especially old countries. The sheer cruelty of British upper class education, for example, is very explicitly designed to counter that effect. References to this effect can be found in French literature... go fish them in Balzac !
13
A dialogue increasingly becoming popular among the Asian Americans. While I wholly subscribe to the view that obsessively driving the kids to academic success can backfire and also am tormented by niggling moments of doubt, whether I/we failed on that front, I do remember playing with our kids, feeling excited to offer them games, toys, taking them to swim and tennis and ballet lessons-things that we could only dream about ourselves while growing up. I do remember people of our generation bearing the heartache of staying thousands of miles away from our homeland in a country , raked by guilt feelings of leaving our close family and parents behind. We knew nothing about the country and the society, we had emigrated to and struggled hard to fit in. We worked hard to provide the best for our children, and send financial help back home to overcome the guilt, eating at us. In the process, we denied ourselves so many amenities, that others around us took for granted. We tried to instill the cultural values, we had carried here from back home-respect the elders, work ethic...and then we lay awake at nights wondering whether we were right. Young and inexperienced that we were, I often wonder how things would have turned out for the next generation, if our generation had been that hard ourselves and our children
8
Interesting article, and I agree that the right focus is on the immigrant experience, rather than a uniquely Asian-American immigrant experience. Many of the experiences the author describes ring true to the immigrant experiences in my family, and that I've heard about from my friends, across many different ethnic backgrounds and countries of origin.
I'd like to correct one inaccuracy, in the description of evidence that has been reported on in the Harvard admissions lawsuit. As I understand the reporting on the point, the internal report produced by Harvard's Office of Institutional Research (which is the source of the 43% figure) was not a conclusive finding by the University, but simply a single internal report that is part of Harvard's learning on admissions questions, and its finding was based on a hypothetical admissions process that considered only experienced academic "success" not one that considered overall "academic merit." So, rather than saying that Harvard made any finding on the subject, it would have been more accurate to say that one internal Harvard report developed evidence that, if the college considered only prior academic success in deciding whom to admit, its share of incoming Asian students could more than double, to 43%.
8
I am a first generation Asian immigrant who arrived as a teen to go to college and never left. That was 30 odd years ago.
When my children were little, I used to think I would do whatever it takes to send them to the best college they could get into, like an Ivy League. Now that our kids are in high school, I no longer even see college as necessary.
By sheer luck both of our boys are born with the inner drive to succeed and do extremely well at school. We plan to send them both to the local State U and no farther (partly because I can't bare to part with them). But I would be totally fine if they tell me they want to drop out and run a startup.
College is not what it used to be. These days it's just an expensive indoctrination center. My husband and I are more than turned off by all the social justice madness engulfing our college campuses, esp. in the elite colleges. The discrimination against Asians at the elites only further turned me off of the liberals' hypocrisy on race. I now agree with my husband more than ever that elite colleges are for suckers, and sheep.
In the summers I let my kids sleep in and do whatever they feel like, as long as they mow the lawn and help me with some chores. I feel bad for kids who have to run themselves ragged padding their resumes for elite colleges. Let the kids have their childhood. They will never again in their lifetime have these easy summers once they leave for college.
31
Your comment was very interesting. The last immigration in my family was a few generations ago, so I can't add anything to that part of the discussion besides listening to it. However, while I agree with your conclusion that college is not necessary and that state schools are more than enough, I disagree with your premise that colleges are "expensive indoctrination centers".
I think it's worth considering that this view is misguided by media distortions. As my location suggests, I am a student at Florida State University, a school which earned the nickname "the Berkeley of the South" back in the '70s for its spirited protests against the Vietnam War. If you counted every head on campus, probably most of them would use the word "liberal" to describe themselves. I will give you that.
But more than you would probably expect fit the bill of conservatism, too - the Republican club is large and active and about a third of my professors have had a right-wing bent. My experiences here have not been shaped by radical social activism. In fact, I've found those kinds of people stick to each other like glue and rarely go outside their groups to proselytize to the rest of us.
FSU is not an Ivy League, but what is there separating those schools, really? Test scores, academic involvement, good essays? Where in those gaps would extremist, leftist views develop? Probably nowhere! Knowing many Ivy students and after 3 years of college education, I have yet to encounter indoctrination.
13
Mr. Park, in the beginning, American values included education, and developing one's self. The Puritans were the first to legislate universal education. If you had gone to school at that time, your parents would not have had to send you out to another paid provider or tutor you themselves in mathematics -- your government's school would have provided you the opportunity to advance. Shamefully those American values now are being reserved for 'elites' and their chosen groups, rather than being extended to all in the population.
14
Absolutely true! I studied from my mother's old school books as a child, and was far ahead of my classmates. (I started school in 1956, and she started around 1921). The etchings were beautiful, the stories and poetry, charming. I was sadly disappointed when I got to school and was stuck reading Dick and Jane. I found one actual story, about a horse, in the back of the text and was punished for reading it.
8
This essay touched me deeply. I want so much for my son: emotional comfort at home, personal fulfillment, financial independence, and to do good things in/for the world. I want him to be happier than I ever was. I read through the comments, nearly all of them, and I see that none of us has a definitive answer. We do our best, and we all have the similar goals. Some of use have fewer financial resources, but I think we all want our children to be happy and successful (defined only somewhat differently), and to be good people. We try to balance love and pressure, comfort and pushing beyond. I respect all the parents who are commenting, because it means we're all working hard to make this whole business of love and raising people seem seamless. My own childhood was horrendous; I want my son to know love, to respect himself and others, and to have the tools to succeed financially (I don't mean wealth, but independence). It isn't easy to figure out, but as he now enters his teen years he's so much happier than I've ever been, and he's confident and well-poised to thrive in this tough world. I think what I've got to do is ease up on myself.
27
I too am a second-generation Asian-American raised with tiger parents. My parents love for me was based on the scores on my report card. Personal feeling and emotions are taboo, but I live in America. When I am out of the house, I express my feelings and emotions. As a result of my dual-culture up-bringing, I know not to tell my parents about my first boyfriend or when we broke up and I was heart broken. I do not share ANY of my feelings. I am really good at hiding my depression and suicidal thoughts from my parents.
Now that I am a parent, I don't want my daughter to feel that she cannot talk to her mother about her feelings and emotions, happy or sad. I see this authoritarian up-bringing as defining success to have a prestigious title (one of only two respectable options; doctor or lawyer) so you can buy a Mercedes, a McMansion and carry a Gucci bag to define your self-worth to your relatives.
Who gives a damn.
91
I'm not Asian American. I am a college professor at a NON-elite state university. My students are ordinary in terms of ability, but most of them do graduate and find jobs that lead to reasonable financial security--i.e. middle class, not upper class---lives. Most of them also develop a sense of social responsibility for others less well off than they are while attending college at the place I teach at.
And that brings me to my reaction to articles like this: What happens to kids of tiger parents who are NOT so talented and NOT so intelligent as to be able to earn straight As? What happens to a tiger parent's kid of ordinary intelligence who works hard, but in the end earns a mix of Bs and As with the occasional C? What happens when a tiger parent's kid applies to Ivies and their peers, but only gets in to their safety school, the local non-prestigious, non-elite state school?
Do those kids think they are failures???
In other words, would Mr. Park regard himself as a failure if instead of getting into Amherst, he had to attend SUNY-Geneseo for his undergraduate degree and SUNY-Buffalo for law school?
35
That depends on the family and the person’s particular circumstances. For example, my parents were uneducated immigrants. I am the first born daughter, considered by my father to be a burden because he only wanted sons. Throughout my childhood he punished me for every perceived imperfection. When I was not accepted to Harvard as an undergraduate he made me feel worthless.
At my graduation from Harvard Med, he berated me for an imagined slight because of his insecurity. So even graduating from Harvard Med was not good enough for him.
My brothers, on the other hand, were treated like princes. The only one who is not a doctor or a lawyer today is still being coddled at home in his twenties.
So it depends on the particular circumstances.
37
“Do those children think they are failures?”
Yes, they do. I’m an immigrant and child to tiger parents. For me, it was easy throughout childhood to carry out my parents wishes that I study hard and become a ivy-league trained doctor, which I did.
My sister, on the other hand, applied herself to her education, but ultimately her gifts and talents lie outside traditional academic measures of success. She could never get the grades I did, never got the awards or distinctions, never went to grad school or had any aspirations toward a traditional upper middle class career.
It was painful to watch my parents berate her as a failure throughout childhood, while singing my praises loudly on the other hand. I accepted the praise with much guilt. I was lucky to be good at school, she was unlucky not to be, and nothing more. My sister was called a failure for behaving like a totally normal American kid.
Now, she has grown into an unemployed, insecure, and depressed adult. I remember her as a vibrant and happy kid, but she’s broken.
My sister and I rarely speak. Why should she speak to me? I remind her of my parents, whose only wish was that she was everything she isn’t.
So I’m successful but alone, and all I have is the med school diploma on my wall to cheer me up.
73
Did you tell your sister all you just told us?
If you didn't, you really should.
11
No, you don't have to emotionally abuse your child to academic success.
25
I am child of Korean-American immigrants and educated in all the "correct ways". My take is different from the author's whom I am guessing is also of Korean heritage. I thus frame my comment not in "Harvard education" but in the context Korean-Americans are highly uneducated about: the Korean War.
For the same reasons it is called the Forgotten War is the same reason we Korean-Americans became a different kind of casualty of that war -- in cultural amnesia, unquestioningly buying into the American version of Korea via M*A*S*H etc.
This became a push for assimilation by way of Harvard achievements. On the surface a great immigrant success story, but masking a darker truth: an immigrant pool so far removed from its roots that it forgot half the Korean people north of the DMZ.
Which brings me to the subject of borders. The images and sounds on television of children separated from family have been heart wrenching.
Now imagine, out of sight, before the age of social media viral tv, the same thing happening in 1953, tearing apart millions of peoples of lives and families in Korea. A wound to the heart of the Korean people persisting to this day -- yer still barely registering on the educated radars of those of "immigrant achievements".
We can spend our days decrying every wrong in the world -- or support what is going right. Those rights are the actions of President Trump, to heal the divide of the real children, siblings and parents traumatically separated for 65 years.
9
I'm a white lawyer. Two years ago I was walking around the track at my town's high school. Once I got warmed up I started to run. A little Asian boy started to run next to me and he beat me to the finish line. Flushed with triumph he yelled at me "You slow". His mother then walked up to me and said "He beat you". It starts early.
52
The high percentage of poor asian kids in NYC elite high school are the perfect example of first generation migrants with no college degree, and ready to do whatever it takes to send their kids to college.
The second generation can enjoy its middle class privilege, when both parents have a college degree their kids are born with 99.99% of chances to enter college. Nothing to do with larger brain, genetic advantage, or better education, but everything to do with a system where money is all you need to enter college.
11
Mr. Park, you don’t speak for all of us. Just because you resented your own parents does not mean Asian parents (even the cliched “tiger parent”) cannot be loving, or that Asian children cannot have a good relationship with their parents.
Your article, as does many articles about Asians in the NYT, does nothing but to peddle blunt, discriminatory stereotypes about Asian cultures and mindsets.
27
I couldn’t agree with this more. Thank you for posting this. I am a second generation Korean-American whose parents probably fall into this stereotype of tiger parenting that we ourselves are perpetuating through articles like this and shows like Fresh Off the Boat. My parents however did everything they could to raise me in the ways they knew how to express love. The concept of tiger parenting and totally masks that.
12
With deaths due to suicide or drug abuse in white America outpacing births, I think it's high time to look to emulate the success of Asian-Americans and their cultural values and upbringing rather than accept the current American cultural norm of low standards, laziness, entitlement, ignorance, and anti-intellectualism.. Everywhere I look, it is Indians and Chinese excelling academically, professionally and personally in terms having successful families and careers, while it seems every other group is in a race to the bottom and fighting over the scraps.
30
Interesting to see how elite private universities are using subjective criteria in order to reduce the proportion of Asian students. I wonder if they would do the same if the overachievers are say German or Irish immigrants?
18
The premise that life success is determined by whether you are a doctor, lawyer etc is flawed, therefore the idea that immigrant parents were engendering success in their kids is misplaced. Creativity and passion in your endeavor, whatever the endeavor, is dampened in my opinion by so called “tiger” parentling. There is nothing particularly meaningful about the approach beyond forcing your children to live out your insecurities.
14
Are there any children of tiger parents who, despite all the pressure, did not get all As, did not get into top schools? I'd like to hear what they have to say.
20
I am also a product of Tiger parenting. The original Tiger parenting article was an interesting read when it was published and my first thought was “that’s all she made her daughter do?” I had to play two sports, play two instruments and score high marks or the punishments would be swift and severe in a form that would be considered abusive by social norms today. I thought that was normal because I was a child. What did I know? Dangerous or advantageous imprinting?
Prospectively, the author can allow his children some laxity because he and his wife can provide the safety network for them if they do in fact fail in their careers. Not all families can enjoy that privilege. Meritocracy at its foundation.
Other articles have scratched the surface of the effects on the depression and even occasional unfortunate suicides associated with academic failure with some Tiger children. This is a multifactorial and complex realm and epidemiologically I am uncertain of the penetrance rate. I’ve felt that pressure before and know the heaviness of many failures. (In fact there are articles/college classes on teaching college kids on how to fail).
Parenting is the opportunity to provide the correct direction for young minds. Keep them on the straight and narrow. Perhaps I’m stating the obvious, but the best approach is an age old question that probably will never be answered because resources are limited, individual children are unique, and parents are diverse in creed and kind. Good luck!
11
All very interesting, but before we can have a useful discussion we need to dismantle the term “Asian-American” and, with the cooperation of the rest of the world, abolish the term “Asia” itself.
If we hadn’t grown up with the concept of Asia, we’d certainly recognize that it’s so wildly broad and arbitrary as to be useless in any principled consideration of the earth and its inhabitants. We use it because, once upon a time, someone (perhaps Herodotus) began using such a term for the land just across the Aegean Sea from Greece, and over the years Europeans came to let it stand for more and more territory east of that.
Now we passively fancy an “Asia” that stretches over an immense range of latitudes and longitudes (but curiously stops in the middle of a landmass), peopled by “Asians” who exhibit no unity of race, religion, traditional economy, or culture. Their descendants in the US could hardly be a monolithic group unless they had become one after arriving. That may be so to some extent, but the author of this piece probably should have called it an account of Korean-American experience.
So much for the “Asian” half of “Asian-American”. Now, what should we make of the other half? The absurdity of the term “Asia” is almost rivaled by that of naming two whole continents after Amerigo Vespucci.
11
There are other ways to look at this. For better or worse, I made it clear to the four children I raised nearly by myself, that their success or failure was to be entirely by their own standards and they were in charge. Three spent various numbers of years out of school, which we were required to call " home schooling." One never graduated from High School, but is now a NYC corporate lawyer. One Specialist MD teaching at a major hospital , two very successful entrepreneurs. Leave the kids alone!
7
You seem s bit confused, how can you be a corporate lawyer without going to law school, which you cannot do because you dropped out of high school...did the specialist MD not attend medical school as well? Just curious ...
6
Once again, New York Times readers are so busy critiquing the author and wallowing in their own intellectualism, that they missed the point. As they often do. People can have two feelings at once. The author is clearly appreciative of his Parents and The role they played in his achievements, but has many regrets as to how he received his childhood. Why can’t he have both? Clearly he does. He just feels that the achievements and accomplishments that were clear result of his Family’s parenting style Weren’t worth the unhappiness he felt as a kid; historically a time when we all spend most of our days having fun. He wants different for his children, and he has that right. We all know that his kids will be just fine. It sounds like he just chooses to be more aware of the benefits AND consequences.
38
Why there are so many commenting here negatively on Mr. Park's very well written and thoughtful article is beyond me. A good always parent tries to do their best for their children. As a parent I realized long ago this was a balancing act. As a child from a family of ten, I later understood that every child will become who they are, who they're going to be. Mr. Park's honesty is bracing. Back off. He's a Dad. Doing what he thinks is right.
27
If the decline is from a starting point of clerking for two SCOTUS Justices... well :-)
Thank you for this piece, which made me look back on my own upbringing as one of those people with a difficult to pronounce last name. I remember my mom asking why did I not get a better grade than a 4.0? (In her country, and my country of origin, the top grade was a 5, so clearly I was not quite living up to potential.)
17
My parents were Jewish immigrants from Poland. They weren't tiger parents. Instead, they were interested in the world, in the news, in the arts. They communicated these interests without being tiger parents. I got into Stuyvesant without any preparation for the test.
When I was in Stuyvesant (1951-53) it was heavily Jewish. None of my classmates ever spoke about their parents as people who forced them to learn.
Although I have no evidence, I strongly suspect that Albert Einstein's parents were not tiger parents.
15
I grew up in the 1950's in a Jewish middle class neighborhoodn in Brooklyn. I had the same experience. The parents set a good example for their children by incouraging curiosity, but they were not tiger parents. Almost all of my friends graduated colleges and went on the successful careers.
13
no more strict bedtime, now you can stay up as long as you like ....as long as you are engaged in a learning activity -- your parents live on !
For all of our tooting of our horns about how our parenting styles (American that is), its really only working for a small percentage of America - while we claim to pursue more relaxed parenting styles and look with disdain on how the rest of the world does it, the wealth is concentrating in a smaller and smaller percentage of the population (btw UN just issued a report about the shocking level of childhood poverty in the US) - is our style really working well?
It seems to me your parents' sacrifice indeed enabled you to make a different choice - they would have loved to be your friend and have you be a rockstar but can you honestly say that you're sure you would be where you are now without their style?
Memories and recollections are a weird thing - some remember fondly the loving discipline of parents and laugh about some of the things they went through while completely understanding their parents constraints and intent while others can only recall harshness... not to judge either but memories and recollections are a weird thing
I, from time to time, run into parents who say I will never parent like my parents -- I will never make my kid play piano like I had to or I will never insist they read certain books like I had to - funny thing is that I always run into them at private school pta or the park in their nice neighborhood
18
What happened to the idea of thinking that everybody should do something for the betterment of society? Sure happiness is good too, but focusing only on happiness seems like narcissism.
12
So, if Harvard followed Stuy's model, it could be 70% Asian, too.
Is this the outcome that the lawfare patrons are seeking? Or are they just generally pressing an ideological opposition to any admission policy that isn't race-blind?
I'll take the high road and not suggest anyone might have sought to exclude one palette of colors naively unaware that their own color would end up excluded, too.
1
I grew up where if I got a 97, someone would say "Why didn't you get 100?"
Despite that, being among the best (top 10%) was fine.
But my wife grew up in a family where NOTHING but being the best was enough. Both she and her older brother were 1st in their HS class. Yet, ironically, neither was the valedictorian! Why? Because in the 70's there was this hypothesis that the best shouldn't be rewarded as the best. Go figure.
My wife's parents always said "Responsibilities come first!" Not play, not exercise. School work came first.
We are not Asian. We are not 2nd generation, but 3rd generation. 7 of our 8 grandparents were immigrants (My maternal grandmother was the child of immigrants).
Before the Asians were "tarred" with having "supernatural" powers in school work, we were, for centuries.
Because we are Jews.
But it's not supernatural. It's the recognition that knowledge and education are portable wealth, wealth that can NEVER be stolen from you. Knowledge, education and ability are valuable commodities that mean you can always eat, find work, and excel.
Our boys, while never punished for not being perfect, always knew that responsibilities come first, and get their work done without procrastination. It pays off, and doesn't traumatize the kids
37
I like that. Our child is raised to value hard work and near-100% effort as more valuable than a score on a standardized test. My reasoning is that top 10%, is in fact, good enough to stay in the ballpark. Most real success seems to be determined by grit. Class is important, but I'd rather take my daughter on a two-month backpacking trip in the summer than enroll her in a summer enrichment program. Again, I want to keep her in the top 5 or 10% of standardized tests but emphasize grit and character over acing the SAT.
5
My mother said exactly the same thing about knowledge and education being wealth that can never be taken from you.
She also told me about a saying that became popular during WWII which is considerably darker: you are worth as many people as languages you speak.
2
"They will feel valued and supported. They will know home as a place of joy and fun. They will never wonder whether their father’s love is conditioned on an unblemished report card."
Nice way to feed the negative stereotype that Asian parents demand their kids be academic emotionless robots while living in a joyless and unloving home. Please Ryan Park you don't speak for us.
-Signed, A successful and happy 2nd gen Asian immigrant who felt loved and supported by his parents.. and am thankful to them for their motivation and pushing me to succeed.
26
More likely than not, the children of high achievers will be alright.
6
Dishonest to assert as the author does that academic merit lies solely in tests that he and Asians do well at. As top colleges have repeatedly said the mix of students with top talent includes many ingredients. Not surprisingly given his dishonest foundation the rest of the piece is not much more than humble bragging.
7
No, this is simply false. As the lawsuit has revealed, Asian American applicants to Harvard have even better extracurriculars and ratings from alumni interviewers than the other groups. Some of the ingredients they don't have though is being legacy, white, black and Hispanic.
17
Sad that Mr. Park is so unpertubed by the discrimination practiced by Harvard and proposed by DeBlasio. I just hope he instills in his children the American value of individual achievement and recognition and not the identity politics of the democrats.
9
I trained with highly driven intellectuals from all ethnicities. That alone demonstrates you don't have to brutalize a child into succeeding. A child from a mid or lower level medical school can still go on to brilliant success. I went to a ceremony recently where an immigrant who trained at an African medical school came out of residency with 50+ publications and a revolutionary approach to certain cancers. He didn't go to Harvard. He will have his pick of any job when he leaves residency.
That man, brilliant and accomplished, would be a failure if his parents were Asian.
As an aside, the Asian who was clearly the child of tiger parents was not nearly as accomplished with "better" credentials. I wonder why...
6
I think you just shot "diversity" in the foot.
The African University grad was sought after because of his achievements.
Competence is king!! [or it should be] all other "criteria" are drivel.
Ask yourself : what criteria would you use to select a thoracic surgeon for your coronary bypass? Race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation?
4
Fact Check:
Mr. Park states that: "For example, despite having the highest poverty rate in New York City, Asian-Americans". This I believe is misleading. I suspect that is based on a study from the American Community Survey referenced in the Huffington Post on May 8, 2017 which states: "Perhaps most surprising is that Asian-American poverty rates remain higher than those of other groups despite the group’s higher levels of educational attainment,"
All other references I can find indicate that that Asian-Amercan poverty rates in NYC ARE higher than non-Hispanic whites but LOWER than every other ethnic group.
An article in the Times on May 4, 2014 stated: "From 2008 to 2012, the poverty rate in Queens rose by 6 percentage points, the highest increase of any borough, according to a city study released last week."
Huff Post and Mr. Park seem to be confusing the rate of increase in Queens with the actual, absolute rate itself.
9
You can always improve teaching methodologies. I know there are some Asian Americans that resent their upbringing, yet so many Asian Americans also instill strong academic competitiveness with play and positive views of future gain.
If you remove competitiveness and a strong sense of academic achievement from your institution, you remove a great motivator.
2
How did the writer go to Harvard? By working 3 hours a day? How do athletes get into prestigious programs and NFL/NBA? You mean to say parents of these athletes didn't push them and dragged them for practice to practice? In fact, they dragged them to a hostile brutal sport where the kid could die or face permanent injury. I don't see anyone complaining. Easy to target Asian Americans. Easy to do sadly.
16
I’ve been reading a number of articles on the Asian-American experience in the NYT recently that reinforce stereotypes that all Asian parents are tiger parents. When reading articles like this, remember it is one person’s experience. I’m sure Mr. Park is being honest but I wouldn’t presume that this is representative of how all Asian Americans were raised. Other Asian Americans who did not grow up with strict parents likely don’t feel the need to write about their childhoods since it was not traumatizing or since it was not culturally different from how their non-Asian friends were raised.
19
Mr. Park, it seems that you have found the golden middle. Emphasize learning, but participate in it, then expect good results. Let the kids be US kids, but without the much too-frequent absence of parental guidelines and necessary curbs. Good luck to you, sir.
4
My driven kids are first gen on one side, second on the other. We do the relationship first and foremost, absolutely. That said we're just the cheerleaders; they have the drive. The writer did too- he didn't succumb to temptations though at the time he may have been oblivious. He didn't disappear into defeating behaviors. deBlasio isn't doing anyone any favors with his plans for Stuy, Science and Tech. These kids are hungry and have worked for their dreams. The kids who would be arbitrarily placed there will know they're at a disadvantage from day 1. Either the schools will ruin what makes them havens for the bullied bright who thrive there now or the new kids will hide in drug use and such code rates will rise. Look at Harvey Mudd for the clearest example. Let's learn from this dad sharing the joys of phonics and sea creatures with our kids. Let's love them, let's help them learn, not toss them in where they'll have no life but work. That is what deBlasio's plan would do. Making up 8 years of neglect in four? Who does that to children!
3
It's only a small fraction of American families that have anything like this kind of struggle. With so many kids coming from dysfunctional family situations, not to mention a widespread political bias against education in a significant part of the Republican electorate, the distinctions drawn here hardly matter in the scheme of things. The problems are a lot bigger.
11
I could not afford to have children - as a new immigrant, I was working around the clock and traveling far for meetings and cutting deals. However, as a non-parent, who is frequently brushed away when the issues of "raising our next generation" is concern, I am deeply touched by the love, understanding, compassion, and most of all, humanity Rayan Park shows in this essay. So, thank you, for being so honest and open.
16
I felt a sense of sadness for you when I read your essay because I feel you lost out on a fun-filled childhood. But I know it's a common story - I've personally witnessed many similar cases in the Asian community.
I think you are doing the right thing as a father. You are creating a robust learning environment in your home, where knowledge is cherished and there are expectations to be a learner, but you are doing it in a loving and positive way rather than in a tyrannical way.
Your father's way can not only lead to the problems or sub-par results you mentioned but can also lead to severe depression and even suicide. He probably just didn't have the ability to think of other ways to achieve the goals he set for you, so I presume he is forgiven.
3
Very thoughtful and well-written piece. I think the writer's dilemma, however, is one we all face as parents - whether our parents were immigrants or not, Asian or not.
8
The author wouldn’t be writing this article or have the liberty to raise his children in such a fashion if he wasn’t pushed by his very own parents. Sadly that point gets lost in the shuffle ie without great sacrifice from at least one generation it is very hard to succeed in America. The actions of his parents should be praised to some extent not condemned. Without them, he wouldn’t have the opportunity for the life he has now.
12
My first son I had to drag out of bed to go for the stuy test and he managed Bronx Science. My second son filled out the application for magnet middle school. Not thinking much of the promo material I signed only due to his insistence. He got me out of bed when his stuy test day came. He made Stuy by one point which I unmercifully reminded him of whenever sibling rivalry became unbearable. Neither child even got a test prep book much less prep classes. The pride they have in their high school is something I never understood having merely survived My Detroit High School. They both went on to make more than me and are the product of NYC public schools and both public and private higher ed. They are NYC kids driven by a relatively fair competitive environment. My often stated education philosophy was your either ready for the test or your not, cramming won't cut it and blaming schools, teachers or parents for failing doesn't fly. I also talked incessantly about science art politics history and economics. Once in high school their math skills and foreign language skills left me in the dust as viciously as their tetris game. We played, we still compete on mini crossword puzzles. They never got a pass on chess. Dr. and lawyer, hmmm, not bad but I would of been just as proud for a book store owner as a very proud Bronx Sci alumnus once chided me. Instilling pride and responsibility for one's own education is what being test ready is all about. Parenting is important.
14
Wonderful! You said it all without the P/C drivel.
1
Hmm. The author clerked for two Supreme Court Justices. While I understand he may look back with regret on a childhood he finds less than idyllic - I also think, frankly, you don't reach that lofty status without intense focus. Perhaps it's a trade-off, a carefree childhood or a high achieving adulthood. It's hard to know for sure. Some of it is contingent upon how you define success.
Frankly, the problem I encounter isn't stressed out children driven to succeed - but rather children driven to appear to not be driven at all. My children's classmates like to say "Don't be a try-hard" - which means exactly what it sounds like - don't be someone who is clearly putting a lot of effort into anything - academics, sports, whatever... unfortunately what many of them, who are both intelligent and talented, learn too late is that success is for those who, indeed, try hard- those who are focused and driven.
While the author ponders the emphasis put on success by his parents while he holds a Harvard law degree - I'm more concerned with the many underachieving kids who are being taught to scorn education and intellectualism as "elitism". Additionally concerning, at least around here, are the many whose parents are more concerned that their children might miss out on something fun than that they might miss out on something necessary for them to succeed post-high school.
16
Wholeheartedly agree. Of course, be kind and nurture your child, and I’m happy some second-generation immigrants are trying to meld the best of American and Asian parenting, but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking laissez faire American parenting is without error. It’s easy to consider severe Asian parenting cruel, but I’m more concerned with the soft cruelty of low expectations embraced by so many parents across our country. Let’s not forget that children haven’t been on this earth for very long; a child’s feelings and opinions are generally very poor metrics for their own welfare. Preparing your kids for real life, even if it means at times making them unhappy during childhood, is truly kindhearted parenting.
8
I think you're missing the point. You can have high expectations and create a very robust learning environment without being a tyrant.
5
My son likes to make fun of all the "try-hards" in his classes, most often the Indian girls as he observed, they are the "Hermiones" in his school. I told him that I grew up disdaining try-hards just as much as he does, but as a parent I now have a whole new level of appreciation for these wonderful kids. God bless them.
5
I have one immigrant (refugee) parent from Poland and one third generation American parent. I had it both ways. My mother could be absolutely tyrannical about my grades and schooling while my dad either stayed out of it or tried to reassure me that he did better in college than high school and was sure I would, too. The problem is that whatever parents do, they tend to overcompensate for what they felt they would have wanted in childhood. Eventually, kids grow up and need to make their own mistakes and their own choices. If they don't, they will be miserable in adulthood and unable to ever truly flourish. The bottom line is, most parents do the best they can, but it's not always what's best for the child.
6
A very insightful article. Over eager, over anxious, under achieving parents frequently push children in order to fulfill their own lost or unfulfilled dreams. Often, it's a parent who wants success more than the child. This doesn't seem to be only in academics, but it's in every category: sports, music, theater. Sometimes these children grow up to be one-dimensional bores and some have great difficulty in defining their place in the world because their place for so many years was directed by a pushy parent. Harvard University is not the only so-called elite university in this country, but it's been around since 1636, I believe, and that may partly account for is appeal: it got a head start on the rest of them
1
Both this article and most others seem to equate Asian-American with Chinese and Korean. Folks, there are a lot of Asians from Cambodia, Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Nepal & Sri Lanka here. Every country has slightly different "common" parenting styles and within each countries immigrants there is also individual variability. Depending on the socio-economic and educational background of the 1st gen parents who immigrated, they could have been struggling refugees who busted their butts running a food stall or already been doctors/engineers/programmers. All these factors will determine whether they follow an approach more like the authors parents or more like he is following. My own parents were both raised wealthy, got graduate degrees here, and were not strict in any sense of the term. All 3 siblings got good educations and are doing well, at least two of us are raising our kids with quite a bit more structure and discipline than they had the time or resources to do (they were grad students while we were in elementary school). I don't think the simple 1st gen 2nd gen model works for us or for most immigrant families we know; perhaps it is more specific to the particular subsets of Asian Americans the author is more familiar with.
13
Exactly. The cliched stereotype of “tiger parents” is so blunt and ignorant that it’s almost offensive.
I once met a Korean storeowner who exactly fit the stereotype—she was rude and strict and demanded I pay by card when I was short my total by just a penny. I later found out she had survived the LA riots, when her previous store was looted and burned down.
Everyone has a story of their own, especially immigrants. That nuance is critical when evaluating different cultures and mindsets, and Mr. Park clearly lacks it.
21
Sam, how does the storeowner's "story" relate to her treatment of you that day? I agree that there could easily be some backdrop against which her behavior makes sense, but to imply that the LA riots are responsible for some seismic shift in her personality is perhaps imprudent. It's possible she has always conducted her business that way.
As for the nuance you seek, Mr. Park actually finds it at various points throughout the piece. I like the part where he notes the kindness of his wife's parents, acknowledging that not all Asian parents are the same. However, this piece is specifically about so-called tiger parents, the existence of which there is no shortage of proof.
I recommend going through once more with an open mind. The person you replied to, Eb, understood in the last sentence of their comment that Mr. Park is writing about one type of parenting within a particular subset of Asian-Americans.
I apologize if my response comes off as confrontational. I just think you jumped the gun with your judgment.
2
Asian American moms didn't invent Tiger Parenting.
It's a cultural remnant from Ancient China when in the Han Dynasty national civil service examinations were instituted as a form of merit-based social mobility. Those who passed joined the scholar-official class of Mandarins who ran the country for the Imperial Court.
The exams required mastery of the Confucian Analects and classic literature. Open to anyone, the exams were as exhaustive as exhausting, requiring years of intense memorization of Chinese classics. You had one chance.
Mao famously failed the exam, which tens of thousands took but each year only 100 or so would pass.
China's ancient merit civil service exam was later adopted by England, Germany, France, Japan, Korea and the US.
The overbearing parental pressure to study nonstop for years is the ancient cultural dynamic that informs the Asian Tiger parent today.
It was based on merit but similar to winning the sweepstakes or being knighted. Those who succeeded were instantly elevated in status, authority and wealth. For the poor there was a life or death urgency to succeed.
Because the exams centered on cultural and literary knowledge, scholars attribute on the plus side a culturally unified people and on the minus side a rigid conformity resistant to change.
The powerful allure of upward mobility through merit and effort is etched into Asian DNA and continues for Asian Americans.
Even declawed Tiger dads and moms.
22
"Because of pre-1965 immigration restrictions, the third-generation stories of most Asian-American families have yet to be written."
Just as a small historical addendum to what the author says here, I am a 4th generation Japanese-American, born in Hawaii in 1971; if I had kids, they'd be 5th generation, and about high school age now. Hawaii was still a US territory at the time my great-grandparents arrived, but was part of the US nonetheless. There were approx 158,000 Japanese in Hawaii at the time of WWII. The majority of the Asian-American kids I grew up with were also 3rd and 4th generation, though there was a small number of first and second gens as well.
5
There is no trade off between success and happiness. I think he is wasting his talents being a lawyer, but then I don't appreciate lawyers very much. Success produces happiness, and discipline helps you through your life. I hope more "tiger parents" are coming, but with a balance between academics, physical training, and socialization.
5
No one appreciates lawyers until he or she needs one!
America used to be described as a melting pot. That referred to the idea that America was based on an idea that immigrants could come from all over the world and lend their particular spice to our culture. But almost always, these waves of immigrants brought their work ethic and drive to make something of themselves. It reinvigorated us in a way that old Europe never understood.
But now my party somehow sees immigrants as only the vehicles for crime and visits cruelty upon them. And even the immigrants who did make good like Mr. Park now seem to prefer to sink to existing mediocrity rather than honor his parents sacrifice in coming this country. " If that means the next generation will have fewer virtuoso violinists and neurosurgeons, well, I still embrace the decline." Mr. Park's children may be happier, but this country is weaker.
9
Your idea is somewhat incorrect. They mostly adopted the basic legal culture of the US. They wanted the opportunities that our country being under populated provided. But they all wanted the protections of our constitution and rule of law. Today many want a job and to send money home. They flee conditions that we have in our country in abundance. And we are highly over populated today, especially with low capability individuals. We need fewer of them, and not more.
5
I wished my parents were more like Mr. Park's dad. I am 1.5 gen immigrant, similar but very different from Mr Park who is 2nd gen. My parents had nor time nor energy to devote to their children. Most of their time was devoted to earning a living much like other 1.5 gen parents who arrived in the 70s. My gen was self reliant out of necessity. There was no one at home when we came from school; we grew up with no supervision or daily parental guidance. We prepared our own meals, watched tv and did our homework when we felt like it. Good or bad, this was the way it was for our gen. Most of our 1.5 gen succeed, albeit not to Mr. Park's level. And this the reason why I wished my parents were more like Mr. Park's father. Although we have attained the American dream today, I often feel we could've accomplished so much more. I don't fault my parents for the way I turned out but I often feel like I got the short end of the stick. Today, I regret that there was no one to even nudge me to do better so when I hear about the amount of attention 2nd generation received, I am jealous and little sad. Yes I know, grass is always greener on the other side. Going back this piece, I am raising my 2 children very much like Mr. Park, with great affection, time and energy, and of course, with freedom for them choose any profession of their choice as long as it is not detrimental to them or society. I am, however, praying my children achieve much more than me.
16
Mr Park is on the right track. Education, in its multiple guises, is the path to self discovery. If along the way, there is economic advantage, that is only one possible fruit of the journey.
7
To be an immigrant from a country that you do not have to flee, where life is stable, means that the person is particularly strong and purpose-driven. It takes a determined and goal oriented person to leave everything that they know and to embark on learning a new culture and world. This determination makes them who they are and the expectations they have for their children are no more than what they had for themselves.
13
What a lovely piece. As a downwardly mobile WASP I applaud you. Career success is a good thing but ultimately there is more to life than that.
15
At a Yale graduate school several years ago, I was struck by certain commonalities among the students. Few among them were happy or even reasonably well-adjusted. Nearly all I got to know had, instead, a sense of quiet anguish. Nearly all had been pushed by families who inculcated the need to chase 'success', without any clear sense of the purpose for it all. In turn, absent a sense of meaning in their lives - a sense of why they were where they were - depression (even suicide) was shockingly commonplace.
30
Which Yale grad school was this? When I was going through the grad school admissions process years ago, Yale’s med school was known for having only Pass/Fail exams. I always thought that would decrease the amount of stress involved.
It would be interesting to compare the "tigerness" of parents who are immigrants vs those who stayed in their own countries.
Many middle class Asians came from a culture of valuing hard work, self discipline, and responsibility to others, first with the immediate family, then onto the community, and eventually to the whole world. But when the parents migrated due to political or economic pressure, they press harder on their children either due to fear and anxiety for survival or to have the child fulfill their own frustrated ambition, or to enhance family pride by having a "genius" child, similar to the beautiful "token" wife of a nouveau riche. Without close political, social, and economic connections of the well established, some immigrant parents assume that the well known colleges and professional schools can help their kids climb the social and political ladder more successfully. Sadly only the extreme behaviors are the ones that got in the news.
5
A recent article in this publication reported how Harvard views many of the AA with extremely high test scores and GPAs but little creativity, risk taking behaviors and limited ability to think outside of the box. Everybody whose IQ falls the in the average range is able to achieve this if only enough effort and time is invested. If I was an admission director of an institution that aims to produce people who bring change I would certainly look at other achievements. I am all for having expectations but raising little robots and taking pride in their success, no thanks! Every time I toured colleges with my kids I had to remind myself that I had my shot. Now it’s their time and I hope they will find what makes them ultimately happy I life.
20
I’ve always thought that the meritocratic view of success is very narrow.
Both my parents are highly successful in this sense. But, are they changing society? Doctors and lawyers have promoted a culture of entitlement in pay that speaks directly to our society of inequality.
Does music really need more classical musicians? It’s 2018.
I applaud anyone who works hard to make money. But, our greatest challenges specifically concern our tearing social fabric. How can we berate children to focus in STEM fields when AI will be implemented not only in hardware and mechanics but also software and learning. Doctors and lawyers won’t be protected forever.
I remember teaching an art class of 8 year olds in Pakistan. Before I arrived the only activity was fill in paint by numbers. Maybe Warhol was right - the only reason to make a painting was to make money.
11
The parenting approaches of both Ryan Park and his parents are in some measure right. The best way here, as in most things, is a balanced approach. Live every day with wisdom, discipline and goodness.
12
"on average, children subjected to high-pressure parenting actually tend to do worse in school."
Okay this is interesting, but then what is the explanation for how well 2nd generation Asian Americans do? I thought that the first part of the article said or implied that it was because of that high-pressure parenting.
16
Very well written and explained.
The 1st generation parenting referred to here is a clear example of "Control in the Name of Love." This control - no matter how you call it - is destined to become a nasty relationship between parents and children. And, of course, this doesn't happen just in immigrant Asian families, but in many families across the spectrum of races.
8
A dear friend of mine raised his kids this way and, predictably, both went to Harvard. One will ultimately be a doctor, the other a computer programmer. Success, right? But these kids don't follow politics or vote in US elections because they are "too busy." They don't do their own taxes, despite being adults. From what I see, they lack any sense of social conscienceless. No effort whatsoever towards community service. Everything is math, science, competition. To an extent, they are academic drones and carbon copies of those raised the same way. As the author notes, do these kids own their success? Do they feel any sense of individuality? And what does it say about a culture that values having top universities populated by only their own kind? In the end, this way of raising kids will fade with the generations separating them from their immigrant parents. But it is sad and troubles me that we are raising a subset of a generation that has no sense of politics, societal values or meaningful concern for their fellow citizens.
59
Oh boy...There's a lot to unpack here. Unfortunately, I can only respond to a portion.
As a second-generation Chinese American, I am sick and tired of reading ill-informed comments like these on articles about tiger parenting. Lazy aphorisms such as these are unproductive and propagate stereotypes instead of a deep, nuanced conversation. The keywords and implied keywords say everything you want to say: "lack of social conscience," "apathetic," "uncaring," "STEM robot," "drone," "carbon copy," "do they feel any sense of individuality?"...Feeding into the model minority myth and the stereotype of Asians being subservient robots, eh? Do you only see what you want to see?
Fun fact: I'd actually wager that these kids do own their success because it was earned through hard work, rather than built on a false foundation of exaggerated praise and participation awards that non-immigrant parents use. I know plenty of white kids who lack self-confidence and the willingness to fail because of this "parenting" style. Furthermore, much of your criticism about these kids not doing their taxes or caring about politics or community service...also applies to other groups! And perhaps these kids don't communicate everything to you or their parents? There are plenty of immigrant children who were raised similarly and are more passionate about these subjects than many non-immigrant "bros" out there. Don't underestimate our "kind" or "subset of a generation"--or our immigrant parents.
Do better.
10
For me, Amy Chua inadvertently discredited "tiger parenting" by publishing that "memoir" of hers 7 years ago, the one featuring her children as props in her own glorious life story as a Yale Law professor. After reading that book (I actually read it), I couldn't help but associate "tiger parenting" with malignant narcissism and see them as basically one and the same. In that book Chua also frankly admitted that she had a hard time enjoying life, which made me wonder why anybody would want to emulate her and any aspect of her approach to life.
As for younger Asian-Americans as a whole, it is good to see some of them moving beyond the "siege mentality" of their forebears and acting like they actually live in a developed country. Wasn't one major point of moving to America from the cutthroat, poverty-stricken desperation of India, China, or South Korea (back when all those countries were miserably poor on a per person basis) to be able to relax a bit and "decline" without fear of horrible suffering or death? Attending Cornell instead of Harvard--or even (gasp) University at Albany instead of Cornell--doesn't mean your life is ruined. What an insult to the other students and faculty members at the hundreds of public colleges and universities in a country that still possesses the world's top system of higher education.
I'm not at all envious of people who live their whole lives as insecure overachievers. The life of a "secure achiever" seems much better.
28
Or maybe they have a very accurate reading of what America can offer? Money. But not much else.
7
So somehow you don't see all the opportunities that our great county has? You miss all the parks, beaches, options for leisure? All those pools, basketball courts, etc. that some houses have? We also have massive opportunities for culture. Even in my small town we have theater, music, and many opportunities to assist the poor.
2
We are competing against countries that at one point were dirt poor - S. Korea and China and India. They all push their kids a whole a lot harder than most of the aggressive tiger parents here. Without a big push we will lose this battle.
Neither of my parents made it to college , dad never even made it past 8th grade. But they always valued education and the only enforcement was hard work would pay off no matter what it was I pursued . But we all know there are no guarantees. My home life was far from perfect growing up among the poorest counties in the nation. But I went on to get a degree and scratch my way into the middle class of society. When I look back at how simple my childhood was and happy I was, it makes me smile. I am glad my parents were not tiger parents.
14
It's all about how we define "success." Having a prestigious job title and being driven by making money doesn't necessarily make a person happy. It's a false belief. Hey, we only live once. We should do what makes us happy while we're here.
18
"Do what makes you happy" doesn't mean eat pizza and play video games all day, every day.
We have to teach children to value things like 1) contributing to society, 2) learning and sharing knowledge, and 3) connecting with other people in meaningful ways.
Once our kids value the right things, they can be happy doing the right things.
19
As "Heartbroken" notes, being happy is not the same as constant pleasure-seeking. While not all highly-paid doctors or lawyers are happy, neither are most people who eschew contributive work for pleasures. Search for the work you love, or can learn to love, and even if you don't go home to the biggest house, if you find yourself eager to go to work and do your job every day, you can probably count yourself happy.
5
I understand your point but you are far from the flexible, laissez-faire, as long as my kid is happy I'm happy parent you purport or want to be. Big deal, so you aren't like your fanatical parents -- but I wouldn't be surprised if you had a cat fit if your kid announced at 15 -- Daddy, I'm quitting school to marry the local plumber --that's what makes me happy Dad -- where would your firm hand with a warm embrace work there?
32
Agree, and the tip off is the part where he subtly brags about the child wanting to stay up until midnight doing phonics. It's just Tiger Mom Lite.
6
Cognitive dissonance whiplash: maybe coincidental but no less ironic that a column about assimilated child-rearing by a minority parent who once clerked for 2 Supreme Court Justices and holds Amherst and Harvard Law imprimaturs should appear just as US border agents are ripping nursing babies from minority parents viewed not as models but as menace.
My first reaction was the house is on fire and this guy wants to tell us how hard it is decorating the nursery.
If he doesn't know the house is on fire or doesn't think it'll burn down (or doesn't care), then Mr. Park has already failed his own children.
Next generation Chinese slip easily into being uber-class Mandarins by way of Harvard, Yale, Princeton. They easily detach from normal or ordinary and risk going over to the dark side of elite and privileged, focused on wealth, status, and the enhancement of both.
They confuse being American with being on a luxurious mega-cruise ship headed to tropical climes oblivious to all those bobbing in the ocean desperately lunging for life-rafts to say afloat.
My 104 year old mother from a middle-rank Mandarin family of an Imperial judge, who she persuaded to let her attend college and earn a degree in English, would ask Mr. Park if his aspirations for kinder, gentler parenting has more to do with having daughters instead of sons given the male bias that defines the traditional Chinese family.
Mr. Park will learn that American isn't who you are but where you're from.
24
I’m a second generation Asian American dad. Although my parents were considerably less authoritarian than the stereotype, plenty of my peers had upbringings similar to what Ryan describes, and I’ve come to the same conclusions that he has.
It’s actually not much of a choice, because, having grown up in the US, all that touchy-feeling Western stuff, like being open with one’s feelings and telling those closest to you that you love them, is second nature to me. The cruelty of beating my children or locking them outside in the snow (one of Amy Chua’s charming anecdotes from her book) is something I just find abhorrent.
Many years out in the real world have shown me that being really good at the violin or being best in your class at math do not necessarily translate into success in later in life. And by success, I mean not only career/monetary success, but also general happiness and success at forming good relationships. Boldness, a good sense of humor, openness, creativity, and getting along with people often take you farther in life in America than being a math whiz—something that often doesn’t occur to some parents raised in Asian cultures.
We are all products of our upbringings, so perhaps we should not heap too much blame on parents coming from countries so different from this one. But those of us who are second generation Asian Americans do know better when it comes to how children should be treated, and we should strive to do better.
40
Very well said.
The ideas here are worth thinking about but there's a logical flaw that needs to be wrestled with a bit.
Park references statistics and anecdotes that document the academic and professional success that the children of Asian immigrants have achieved. He states that "as a group we’ve broken the curve on standard metrics of success." Towards the end of the piece, Park points out that "research shows that children tend to do best, across the board, when parents command loving respect, not fearful obedience." These facts are in conflict. Who is doing this "research?" And how do these researches explain the fact that the group that has been by parents demanding "fearful obedience" has achieved success at rates that are literally off the charts?
Answers to these questions wouldn't necessarily tell us which type of parenting is "better" but it will at least allow us to make decisions based on real information and not just what feels right.
13
Parenting kids in a top school, what I can see from some of the 2nd generation Asian families parenting 3rd generation kids is an excessive focus on "winning", beating classmates at learning, and rote memorization, rather than focusing on the joy of learning and creativity. I think it may still take a while before the tigers subside, and I applaud Mr. Park's essay.
That said, being from somewhere that undervalues "book learning" and treats it with skepticism (I'm talking to you, Texas), I admire the Asian culture's realization that education is critical to success, even if I think they value too much of the "success" over learning. So I would take the tiger culture hands down over a culture that bullies "nerds" for loving to learn. That's why I have my kids in school with all the Asian tigers, and will never return to Texas :-)
28
"despite having the highest poverty rate in New York City, Asian-Americans make up a large majority of students at the city’s premier public high schools"
Believe me, Asian-Americans do not have the highest poverty rate in New York City, there is a difference between poverty and undeclared income -- being paid in cash under the table, which drives 90% of the Chinatown/Flushing/Brooklyn Chinatown economy -- and undeclared assets held in cash in safe deposit boxes -- which qualifies them for government subsidies and housing.
Believe me, I know.
Most Asian Americans are middle class, and their kids' success is commensurate with that middle class advantage.
48
Do you think the non-Asian people in the Marcy Housing Projects do not also have some under-the-table incomes? Why not just give credit where credit is due? The Asian immigrants do extremely well here in general, even when they arrive with nothing.
6
It's 1983 and I'm speaking with a second generation Chinese classmate (pharmacy school):
Me: What are you doing after class?
Ms Wong: I've got to help my father in the grocery store. Although he sold the store.
Me: "He sold the store"? And you and your father are still helping out?
Ms Wong: He (father) wants the man to do well and succeed.
Would that everyone help each of us to succeed.
28
Look at the big picture, Indian and Chinese culture has been a bit of a disaster over the last 100 years, not including the last 15 which have been ok. Why? Many of these tiger parent methods are about strict conformity , about listening and doing everything your parents say, not learning to think for yourself. These cultural systems cause big problems in the long run and it is something Americans have avoided. Americans think for themselves. There is nothing wrong with making education a priority and pushing in a loving way to do well but it is how it is done.
15
If Americans could think for themselves, Trump wouldn't be in the Oval Office.
82
@Sam M.
"...Indian and Chinese culture has [sic] been a bit of a disaster over the last 100 years... ."
India and China combined represent nearly half of the world's population. That alone coming into the modern age late and having to play catch up with modern developed nations would constitute a disaster but both ancient civilizations have muddled through and along with the rest of Asia will no doubt be the epicenter of the future.
Otherwise historians might note the role of Western Imperial powers -- mainly Rule Britannia -- with a disasterick to footnote their poisonous colonial legacy.
The noonday cannon in HK still fires daily but mercifully the noonday sun no longer shines for Mad Dogs and Englishmen anywhere in the world, not even at home in England. It was the shadow cast by Empire that obscured the path to modernity for Asia.
2
Yuri,
Thank you for testing the limits of my brain clusters are illuminated by the holy shadow of long ago Roman monks legacy of ruins. It seems like you are about to float off the edge of the ocean and then it just pulls you back again.
There's got to be a balance with rearing children. We nurture our them, we teach them with love, respect and kindness. Yes, we hope that they will carry this trait to adulthood. I did the same with my own children who are now adults. They may not be doctors or lawyers but they are successful . The bottom line is parenting comes in all shapes and forms. We learn and apply with support from extended family and friends, our children will become happy, content and turn into well-rounded adults.
3
I still want my kids to get good grades. I think it's way easier now to get a high grade then when I was a kid.... there appears to be a huge amount of grade inflation, so that all parents are pleased with the grades kids get. I'd rather my child has a true "70" than an inflated "85". When they share their grades with me, my question is whether they understand what they got wrong, versus a silly mistake/error.
11
Anyone watch the FX show "Pose", where the HIV-positive (so she knows she only has so much time left to live), Latina-Mulatta trans female ball scene model (Blanca, played brilliantly thus far by MJ Rodriguez) selflessly chooses to be the house mother of a homeless (kicked out of his family home), yet extremely talented, gay African American teen male named Damon?
Blanca lobbied hard to get Damon into a highly prestigious dance school, makes time to humbly listen to Damon's concerned dance teacher when Damon is goofing off/not coming to class on time/getting sloppy, and she gives Damon a fistful of bus & subway passes - plus a timely rip-roaring lecture to him on choosing to grow up!
She even forbids him from voguing at the Snow Ball (even when it means their house team will lose that contest), to emphasize the importance of delaying impulses and sacrificing for a better future.
Blanca realistically identifies & nurtures Damon's strengths, while compellingly nipping in the bud any excesses, distractions, temptations, etc. that could throw Damon off course personally & professionally.
Damon in turn grows to appreciate Blanca's gentle but firm mothering ways, because it drives him to be his own uniquely strong person - unlike the intolerance, condemnation, &/or dismissiveness he got from his biological family.
Parents are ideally any child's 1st & enduring life coach; gotta balance vinegar & honey as they forge ahead rearing A humans!
7
I am seated next to a child of Asian tiger parents. Sure, he has a superior intellect and can do a lot of brain work at a higher level than the average American college grad. But his inability to succeed in any relationships with other people is the consequence of his relentless doctrinaire raising at the hands of Kuomintang parents, bent on revenge against the Chinese Communists. He's a freak unable to relate to other human beings on any level, but ironically dependent on them as a severely handicapped man (right leg amputated).
12
This has been true before and will be true again. What we see with Asian and South Asian immigrants are what prior generations faced, Jewish immigrants in the first half of the 20th century come to mind (Isaac Asimov told a story that he didn't win the award for the best in math or the best in I believe physics, but his father was mollified when he told him that he was 2nd for both prizes:). Asians culture is different than Jewish culture in some regards, but the eye on the prize mentality is very much there.
And for the most part the next generation is very different. It also depends on the education level the parent has achieved, a lot of my coworkers are from China and other places in Asia, and their attitude is more like my attitude towards parenting then those whose parents were less educated. I remember reading an article about this church in NYC, a mega church, and a lot of their membership are the kids of tiger parents who are looking for something different. I saw a lot of this in music, where the Asian kids often had incredible playing technique because of the discipline their parents put on them, but a lot of them over time fell by the wayside because what their parents put on them hurt them in music (it is not a technical pursuit only).
In the end the children of immigrants tend to be more like people of several generations and the drive tempers. Chua is a rarity, while the tradition of hard work and the like doesn't go away, it is tempered by other things.
4
So you can raise your earnings and social status by pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. Liberals I know say it’s impossible. May I make a suggestion. Let’s go 25 years where young African Ameican youths pull themselves up by their own book straps and see what happens. Whatever we have been doing for the last 50 years hasn’t worked. Why not try something new? These Asian families came to the US with nothing. No money and no education.
10
you might be interested to known that the immigrant success is not limited to asian americans. according to the us council on poplulation (forgot exact name of body), nigerian american are most succeasful immigrantq in terma of academic success as well as earnings. so it seems to me the question is, what is about the conditions of life in black america (i.e. non immigrants) that makes success for those in that category so seemingly elusive?
15
It's really quite simple. Two parent homes. Stability. If you must, rectitude, although i don't weight it that much. A love of education. Many immigrants come to the US and are astounded by the opportunities that our own citizens take for granted or even ignore. Not the least of which is a non-confiscatory tax system. through give it time. OK, now let the social justice outrage engine shift into high gear. The neighborhood I grew up in near Pittsburgh (60 years ago) had its share of immigrants. They all shared the same values outlined above.
1
Shamrock are we on the same planet? Look at the largely insurmountable obstacles both community driven and externally driven --change those and they have a fighting chance. As a Black child whose parents came to North America with nothing, or as you say "no money no education" it has worked: top of class, master's degrees. Bootstrapping? That's what we did. We have achieved in spite of the mountains we had to cross, in spite of having to work harder and better than our peers; and, it is not lost on me to open my eyes and see and try to understand the African American experience. Look at the statistics for Black immigrant families coming to America and their success and achievement rate. Would I look at certain White American groups with their own set of internal obstacles and condemn them because they haven't pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps? No. Would I condemn them because their external obstacles are fewer than mine, or vilify them because they do not suffer based on their skin color? No, because I have the ability to analyse, reason, understand and empathize. Did you bootstrap, or did you ride on the coattails of your color?
6
You seem to have bought the premise of your father’s insanity. Simply, you are smart - high IQ. If your father had raised you as you’re raising your children, you would have enjoyed your childhood - and you’d still have scored high on the Stuyvesant entrance exam.
9
Not sure whether this comment is tongue in cheek or not but getting into Stuyvesant is not about smarts and IQ. It is about preparation. The reason Asians account for 70+% percent of the entering class is pushy parents. Asians have no higher IQ than anyone else. There are plenty of kids coming from households with very limited resources getting in. Why because their parents are willing to give up vacations, meals out and a lot of the nicer things in life to put their kids into prep schools. Many (certainly not all) kids get prepped for years to take "the TEST". It typically starts in 6th grade - one or two weekend days. Prep over the summer. 7th grade - both weekend days. 2nd half of year include 2-3 week days. Summer after 7th grade weeks of prep. 8th grade first half until exam almost every day. It is no wonder that even though the city offers free prep classes, most of the kids in their prep classes do not get in. It is on a drop in the bucket compared to what a lot kids do to get in.
2
In his early childhood my father grew up in a mud hut in remote countryside village in India. His family worked hard and moved into the local town to start their own businesses. He worked as a child and teenager in the family shops, and by candlelight studied on his own after the store closed. He worked his way up through the education system and ultimately earned his PhD in electrical engineering at an elite Indian institution. He then worked in the budding Indian space program. CalTech got wind of him and recruited him for a postdoctoral fellowship. We arrived in 1979 to Pasadena and have stayed in America ever since, eventually all of us becoming American citizens. My father drove me and my sister hard, and we clearly understood that his fierce attitude toward education came not entirely from a pure love of learning, but rather from the crucible of his childhood material deprivation.
I now have a family of my own, with a Caucasian wife and three mixed-ethnicity kids. I had long ago vowed not to raise my kids with the capital punishment that was sometimes inflicted upon me. I was given no choice but to become a doctor, lest I have no support in paying for college or graduate school (I had truly wanted to become an astrophysicist). Needless to say, we have a very good income and live well, though I still work 60-70 hrs per week and have call nights. I appreciate what my father did for me, but there is ultimately no way in hell I would raise my kids the way he raised me.
50
My parents used the old-fashioned child rearing technique of becoming mired in economic dysfunction, alcoholism and domestic violence. Nobody ever cared that I got my homework done. I only succeeded at all out of sheer innate ability. I could have done a lot better with more functional parents. Who knows what might have happened with Asian parents actually pushing me to succeed. Maybe when they do college admissions, they should take those things into account. You're still more a product of your home than you are of yourself at 18.
26
I am sure 95% of the white, black and latino readers will have skipped this column. As for the "Asians" who might read this column, I would like to note the following:
1. I grew up in India until I was twenty two. While growing up, I never considered myself an Asian. I am not a refugee, was not politically active/persecuted and did not come for better economic prospects. I came for higher education but happened to spend the whole of the first summer listening to Giants baseball that included Mays, McCovey, Gaylord Perry and Juan Marichal.
2. Mr. Bannon thinks I am a South-Asian. Perhaps he wants to show off his knowledge of world geography. Never considered myself a South-Asian.
I don't like this hyphenated American thing but I am going to use it here.
3. I wish Chinese-Americans would stop bashing their parents.
4. I wish Indian-American and Pakistani-American standups will stop relying on their parents for their jokes.
5. I wish Indian-American novelists not write about the Indian-American experience in the US in all their novels.
Finally, if one wants one's children to become fully independent Americans, they should become one first. This is not difficult. Just follow the winter baseball trades and discuss (seriously) how your team might do, come spring.
14
Love your last premise. Baseball is a sport/business full of history, arcane data, and strategy and is a perfect subject for an enquiring mind. That said ... Go Giants!
3
Why such a biased statement about who will read this article? It's not called for.
4
with a few diatetic differences, we've seen this story play out on the American stage before. it's like an Amy Tan novel: just change the names from Yee or Kang or Wong to Ginsburg or Schwartz or Moskowitz and it all still works and remains believable and familiar.
the first generation will be strict, old fashioned, and a bit
hysterical. that's what motivated their emmigration.
the next generation will not put up too much as a fight,will succeed but wind up neurotic but able to afford psychotherapy to vercome the traumas of childhood.
the third generation will be Americanized: fat, happy, lazy incurious.
this too shall pass.
18
Meme on Facebook:
Asian career choices:
1. Doctor
2. Lawyer
3. Engineer
4. Disgrace to family
That pretty much sums it up, I think
30
Pandora, I've been told that concert violinist is also acceptable. but only if you're a soloist or at least get first chair.
1
The South Asians have broken this mold. Ask Fareed Zakaria and Sree Srinivasan. Actress Priyanka Chopra, Mindy Kaing, Aziz Ansari, comedian Hari Kondabolu....success in every field is now much sought in Asians, whether it is literature, journalism, the arts and sciences..
1
The key to the Promised Land isn't guaranteed even by dent of hard work. Your current life is clearly the result of your father's choices for you (including your wife; unless she likes losers, which your father guaranteed you wouldn't be). Parent any way you like; trust me, your daughters will find their own unhappiness. They'll figure out a way to weaponize their position on the spectrum.
8
In his socialist plan for the City's
"storied Stuyvesant" Mayor diBlasio did not include (as claimed in the article) plain old white folk; only Blacks and Latinos.
7
This op-ed rang so true for me. My parents were immigrants from Taiwan who pushed me to get as perfect grades as possible and to aim for Harvard and become a doctor. I got good (not perfect) grades and went to a top college (not Harvard), and felt like a failure for well into my adult life. I became a lawyer (not a doctor), but did not feel a passion for it. I was never allowed to explore other possibilities that I think I would have preferred like architecture or fashion. Now that I have a child of my own, I am encouraging him to follow his passion. I experienced how detrimental the Asian parental pushing could be. At the same time, I worry that he does not have the same work ethic that I had growing up. A 90 is good enough for him when that would have been a failure for me. I would be fine with the 90 if I didn't see other immigrant kids being raised the the 100 mentality with whom my son will have to compete. I am hoping eventually, if he follows his passion, excellence will follow. He is just starting high school, so we will see.
12
"Follow your passion" is terrible advice when it comes to making a living. Passion should be reserved for higher things: human relationships, learning, honor, and justice.
13
I disagree. in my experience we will have multiple passions in our lives. The trick is to indentify a passion early that will lead to financial opportunities. Once you're traveling that road new ways to leverage it will present themselves that allow you to eventually weave in all of your passions. This will lead to a fulfilling and productive life!
3
I agree with you, Banba! Fortunately my son's passion seems to be in science which will I think will make for a rewarding career - both financially and emotionally.
1
Wow. Talk about first world problems. I am of the first-born in the US generation as well, and I can't thank my parents enough for laying out a high standard for me. I couldn't slack off too much after seeing how hard they worked and what they sacrificed for the shot I got...Are these lessons my family should leave behind so the kids can watch bad TV?
I've learned that hard work pays off. The data shows it's true. Now I don't apply it to other people's hoops, but my own. There's nothing more fulfulling and the resume steps I've acquired on the way let me pursue things other people can't.
This isn't a curse, it's a blessing. Moving away from the playbook to make kids feel better in the moment but have less agency over their life's arc through a proven means of becoming prosperous is a strange choice.
10
As a white Dad of teens with a 2nd gen, modified/gentler Asian tiger Mom wife in a highly academic-achieving school system, we get to see both cultures play out. I believe in pulling them toward the joy of learning (we are both teachers) and finding their joy and metier -- and then to excel at that knowing the direction will have cross-currents that can enrich their lives. I also believe in self-discipline and effort. So, I do have a backstop on academic expectations.
My wife is more geared to driving first to constant academic excellence with music lessons, of course. (We all play something, BTW). She is happy for them to find their sport, too -- after academics. And really, we are mostly aligned on goals -- achieve as part of a well-balance and fulfilling life -- but to the author's insights, we have different methods.
Pulling requires building an environment of exploration and experimentation; it's a context. Tigering disrupts that context with a more narrowly focus on pushing. It is hard to have both -- and it is worth finding the blend. Happier, fulfilled achieving kids/people is really the goal, after all. And we are more than lucky to have started with great kids. That's real key: seeing your kids for who they are, not just your goal for who you decide they should be.
9
I am the first in my family to attend an University. I went to a state school. I didn't receive any help from parents for paying school; neither any encouragement b/c both of my parents barely have any education. My mum grew up in Western Gujarat, India. She lived on a farm and women in her family were not allowed to go to school. I made the best I could when I moved to the states when I was 8. I worked as an auditor for a Big 5 firm in Houston then moved out to Los Angeles to become a movie producer. I am now working for a studio, but I haven't gotten where I want to go. The problem is - Asian parents and Asians have too many expectations instead of living in present. My parents are extremely happy for me. They don't expect anything other than me being happy. When they moved to states, they distanced themselves from the Indian community. The community that thrives in sophisticated workforce (Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers). These communities are very much like the liberal community - if you don't have proper education you are shunned out, you are shamed, you are looked down upon. I've had similar issues with friends who only talk about their money and wealth. Immigrant parents are no different from rest of the parents that won't best for our kids. Maybe stop generalizing all immigrants in a success/model minority category. We have set so many expectations for our kids that they have forgotten how to live.
6
Einstein was a low-level clerk in a patent office. Stephen Hawking was an unexceptional undergrad. Steve Jobs dropped out of Cal. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard. Far more important than jumping through academic hoops is keeping alive the flame of creativity, curiosity, individuality, confidence and joy. Everything else will follow.
40
My wife is a Tiger Mom at heart, but we've found the middle ground. Our child seems to be thriving and has a good balance between self-discipline and happiness. It is doable.
1
I understand his desire to be a better parent, but did he have to completely reject his father like that. There is no textbook in parenting. We all try to do what we think is best for our children based on our own experience and understanding. Hugging your kids is fine. But give your father a hug, too. I am sure he was doing what he thought was best for you.
20
I work at a school where 99% of the students in my class are immigrants from China. Daily, I've seen the effects of their rigorous upbringing. At times, I feel culpable, and at times I feel so much empathy for them. I also ask myself, "is the tradeoff between success and happiness worth it?"
4
Everyone involved in the debate—university administrators, “underrepresented” students, “overrepresented” students, and politicians—ought to read this fantastic essay.
Mr. Park nails it: forced to confront the worth of a punishing education for a materially successful career, second-generation Asian Americans will reshuffle the demographics of higher education on their own—without the anti-meritocratic, clumsy intervention of university administrators.
I think they’ll follow Jewish Americans who’ve learned that prestigious private schools are far from the only path to success. The vast majority of Jewish kids from my very Jewish suburb went to public universities that don’t rank in the top 20 or 30 (...or 40 or 50). Since graduating, they haven’t just done well—they enjoy what they do. They’re producers, screenwriters, actors, journalists, entrepreneurs. One kid randomly started his own construction business and builds million-dollar homes. A couple of my friends got in on the coconut water fad before it blew up; Whole Foods stocks their products. Another produces an Anderson Cooper show. The Cards Against Humanity guys graduated the year after me. And their parents remind me of Mr. Park.
11
Wait, so you let your preschool-aged daughter stay up late as long as she practiced phonics, memorized sea creature names, and other such learning activities. ROAR :) Mine was usually watching Full House reruns.
11
I don't want a doctor (or a lawyer for that matter) who wasn't taught first and foremost how to be a decent human being, and that has very little to do with religion (as the election of Trump demonstrates). And quite frankly there's a lot more to learn from failure than from success. Failure may not always be accompanied by $$$, but it brings other lessons and experiences that become more valuable as life goes on. There's only one failure I'd really regret. I'd be horribly disappointed if after raising my children, they became doctors or lawyers or whatever, who had never heard me say "I love you" or "you bring tremendous joy to my life." If I get to my old age and can't look back on a loving, warm relationship with my children, that would be the one failure, I'd regret the most.
51
I've noticed that the 'tiger parenting' model frequently produces notable successes. But plenty of 'tiger' kids don't become Harvard-educated lawyers. They do well by every standard except their parents' and feel like miserable failures for just being average. Within a family, where there is one success, the other kid, the perfectly normal, doing just fine kid feels hurt, alienated and unhappy.
Is the achievement of the one success worth the cost?
12
Sounds like compassionate tiger parenting to me, which I am not sure is any better. The question that seems to go unasked here is whether the child is happy and well adjusted. I would much rather see a society of well adjusted people than a society of highly educated, but bitter and uncaring, people. A doctor who went to Harvard Medical School but who has terrible bedside manner is worse than a doctor who went to some third tier school but understands people.
25
Whatever first, second or third immigrant parents push on to their kids does not mean we must all now push it on to our own. This is one trait or characteristic or whatever that we in this country could live without. There is more to life than straight A's and becoming educational automaton units. Live a little and think outside of the box more. Creativity counts and has made the Western world what it is today. Take a course in American or Western philosophy for a change. Read some Thoreau or Whitman or Emerson or Steinbeck or Hemmingway or..... in short become more enlightened.
13
This article is an exercise in humble bragging. The Asian lawyer married to the Asian doctor is going to be a mellow dad, unlike his taskmaster father? I bet he and his wife are keenly interested in the academic progress of their children and will choose schools and extracurricular programs to foster their talents. I doubt his goals differ from his father's, although the means may be different. My wife and I are trying too boost our children as well, but we won't write articles proclaiming how much nicer we are than our parents.
95
I think you're looking at this from a negative perspective. He quite clearly says he doesn't have the same expectations of his father. And why shouldn't he brag a bit? He's successful but had to deal with a miserable childhood.
3
Nailed it. My sister has a sign on her lawn w 7 different phrases. They all mean “I’m a better person than you.”
3
It's ok and even crucial to impress upon children the importance of learning , discipline and ambition.
However, you have to know how and when to hit the accelerator or pump the brakes for each child individually.
This "model" is one that can easily lead to a "rebellion" or worse for some children who are not suited emotionally to the unsparing conformity and tunnel vision required.
You always need to let a little sunshine in along the way, no matter what.
5
Thanks Ryan. All that hard work and studying, then you became a lawyer?! Certainly, we don't need any more in our ranks. - Sincerely, another lawyer.
11
After meeting many of the people that I have, it does seem cruel sometimes to have to force their kids to be subjected to them. Perhaps lost at the border is this fact.
2
It looks like what you learned and are passing on to your kids is that the only thing that matters is your own selfishness. Part of education is to be a productive member of society, but you are only interested in "happiness" and "confidence".
9
You are rude. He quite clearly states his interest in his childrens' academics. What is wrong with all of you people nay saying someone successful? Sounds like spite to me.
6
You embrace a decline in the number of doctors?!?
4
There are hundreds of brilliant doctors who graduate each year, most of whom are not the children of tiger parents. I would wager a happy child from an intellectual home will be a better doctor than a miserable child from a similar home.
12
Mr. Park,
I'm the youngest of 6 who were raised by immigrant parents in exactly the way you are trying to raise your daughters. My parents had high standards, a reverence for hard work and self-discipline, but it was always wrapped in love and warmth (and great humor). There was no harshness at all. Results: 4 of the 6 went to Harvard undergrad, 1 went to Yale and 1 went to MIT. 3 are lawyers, 2 are doctors and one owns a media business.
One additional advantage of my parent's method was it instilled the notion of learning as it's own reward. I didn't study for fear of my parents repercussions, but I wanted to understand a subject as well as possible. That lasts to this day. The unconditional love of one's parents is far greater than any academic accomplishment. Stay the course.
16
Another MIT grad here! Everything in this article resonated with me. Mr Park could have been writing about my own childhood. I identify with so much in this article, down to raising 2 young daughters also with my husband, a fellow 2nd-generation Asian-American MIT grad. My Asian immigrant dad was the tiger parent, I'm the oldest of 3. And the results were 3 PhDs + 1 MD amongst us. I have no bitterness about the way I was raised, my parents have their own version of love and warmth - expressed more outwardly now than when we were kids for sure. They did their best, with the style that they needed to follow at the time. But it's not our style, and our daughters are being raised with a different experience.
4
Why is the definition of success a Harvard admission? Decades ago in an introduction for foreign scholars we were told, "in Germany, we don't ask where you studied, but with whom."
4
As a parent and an educator, and a first-generation Asian immigrant with a seriously tiger mom back in india, I completely identify with the dilemma presented in this article. I think children can be happy AND successful if they are taught to own their success and the trade-offs it brings rather than doing it to please their parents.
I make sure my daughter knows I will love her regardless of how successful she is: she is 6. I make sure we high-five, cheer when she does something with her talents. I hold her when she is frustrated but also keep pointing out that success needs hard work and discipline, that talent and opportunity is not enough. I also point out to her my own struggles, and triumphs. I try to look less like a goddess or a tiger mom in her eyes, but as someone imperfect but successful within my life's constraints and tradeoffs I make every day. For example, I honestly tell her why my work is important too, and how I constantly feel challenged between spending time with family and spending time with my scientific research. She has delightedly followed me and my husband to scientific conferences. She also gets to see me struggle with compromises when deadlines and birthdays collide.
Ask me in 20 years, but I do hope that this will teach my daughter to grow into her own trade-offs. I will also have time to grow to accept her choices, than feel disappointed when she chooses differently, or treat her as my trophy when she is successful by her own choice.
10
Nice article! But instead of placing all the blame on the tiger parents, why don't we look at the system? Why colleges demand more from Asian kids compared to caucasians ? "Asian tax" as the kids call that requires SAT to be 140 points in average more required for Asian kids in the same college compared to caucasian kids (way higher required compared to other minorities). May be the educational system is creating more "tiger Asians"!
Affirmative action is another biased system! I am not trying to take away the opportunities from the "oppressed" minorities to give to the "model" minorities. But the affirmative action should favor really to the oppressed instead just to the color of the skin. I know personally many successful African American parents sending kids to affluent schools and their kids favored much more in college due to affirmative action and "diversity" criteria compared to some poor Asian American kids (they do exist) losing chances just based on race!
So till the educational system with above biases change there will continue to be tiger parents just to keep up!
11
I guess he and other former Asian tiger parents got the memo from Harvard that personality counts as much, if not more, than grades. It may be an unfair admissions criterion but when has admittance into a private club ever been fair? Harvard or no Harvard, it benefits all of us to be well rounded.
14
Does the author think that his family represents sixty
percent of the world's population?
2
Parental engagement is key.
Children in an intact family with two highly educated and financially secure parents will most likely do well whether the parents are strict disciplinarians or tolerant, supportive, and joyful.
The child of a poorly educated, financially insecure, single parent will struggle just to get through high school.
8
Murphy Brown taught Dan Quayle and us all that no child needs two parents. Never forget that. Quayle was wrong. Or was he?
There's a world of difference between a well-educated, financially secure single parent (like the fictional Murphy Brown) and a less well educated financially struggling parent who has trouble paying the rent and buying food at the end of the month.
I am working in a profession I love and am happily married with 2 healthy, happy children, but it's not good enough for my immigrant Asian parents. I'm not a doctor or lawyer and don't make a ton of money so they won't introduce me to their friends who have "highly successful children" (whatever that means). Until my twenties I tried with all my might to please them, but I simply couldn't fit into their narrow box. Not to mention that my childhood was terrorized by their own untreated traumas stemming from horrific wartime experiences. This no doubt contributed to the depression, anxiety and suicide ideation that I struggled with for many years. I sought help in therapy, pulled myself out of the abyss, found my calling in life, found a wonderful supportive partner and I now consider myself highly successful at almost age 50. Unfortunately for my parents, I'm a loser and embarrassment in their eyes and a source of their misery. I'm sure most second-generations will choose/ have chosen to deviate from their rigid, narrow upbringing which can only be a positive choice. As the author mentions of his wife, his in-laws were 'unfailingly kind" in addition to having high expectations. This is the key. There's nothing bad about becoming a doctor or lawyer or whatever else you choose as long as parents unfailingly support the child emotionally.
54
Liz Sea, I'm very sorry for your experience. I would be incredibly proud to call you my daughter.
2
Not long ago, I attended a presentation on mental health and parenting kids and teens today. The speaker was describing a new way of parenting that focused on skill building, including managing emotions. During the q and a, a man from India questioned the presenter on her claim that suicide rates among middle schoolers have doubled. He pointed out that while her figure was correct, it's a small number, and suggested she shouldn't be misleading parents on the dangers of teens taking their own lives. It struck me that the presenter (who said she had an Asian parent) and he were talking about the dark side of the Tiger Mom immigrant parenting style that can make parents deeply uncomfortable. I am not sure the parent knew that the lecture series was begun after several teenagers in the community, including a middle schooler, took their own lives. My guess is he wanted to believe his own children couldn't possibly be in that group of kids who can't handle the pressure of "tiger mom"-type parenting.
The difficult topic of mental wellness needs to be a part of the conversation. It is possible to lead a healthy, productive life with a semblance of financial and emotional security without following the path that anxious parents of all races insist their children follow.
18
I have wondered about the cost of relentless pressure to excel on children and adults. How do you learn to think and make decisions for yourself if all of your choices are dictated for you?
The flip side is that we've created a culture that rewards that sort of humorless, relentless pursuit of what qualifies as "academic excellence" rather than affording opportunities for children who are smart but have leisure time, as I did growing up in a middle class household in the 1950s and 60s and to play outside, read lots of books that weren't assigned to me, and the freedom to walk and bicycle around my neighborhood.
The ethic in most professional schools is mostly work and very little play, in preparation for at least 10 years of what amounts to indentured servitude after law school and for being worked beyond the point of exhaustion in as a medical resident, only to graduate and have your decisions second-guessed by $15-an-hour pink-collar insurance claims agents who have turned doctors into miserable paper pushers.
When do we figure out a way to make these professions rewarding and compensate people well without requiring that they give up most of a private life, time with their families, vacations, reading books, walks and other basic pleasures that balance life?
15
All very well and good for you and your wife to take this casual attitude with your children: you both have very lucrative careers and are highly educated-- your children will have every advantage your success can provide them. I'm sure they will have a very sturdy financial safety net to catch them.
But be truthful: if one of your children says they don't want to go to college-- are you OK with that? What if they go to a state school? Are you OK if they want to be a paralegal or nurse or elementary school teacher or someone who makes jewelry on ETSY?
49
Brenda, beware of all-or-nothing reasoning.
The article nowhere advocates for allowing children to slack-off, but rather, being mindful not to equate your love, or their self-valuation, to their academic achievements.
2
My daughters are a wonderful nurse and a wonderful middle school teacher. Your comments are ignorant and disgusting.
8
Who said anything about slacking off? You jumped to that conclusion that what Brenda presented as alternative paths from Harvard>Dr. ="Slacking off"
Mediocrity until recently wasn't a American value. The Ideal was... though rarely achieved it seems preferable to equating average to excellence.
4
Lane, do you see nursing as mediocre? When you go to the hospital for surgery, it's the people in the so-called mediocre professions who keep you alive. Usually the doctor's role is limited during the actual period of care.
9
I grew up in a multiethnic Southeast Asian American family with both refugee and immigrant histories. College attendance was expected, but never talked about in any concrete way, as my parents had but limited firsthand experience of higher education in their home countries or in the U.S. They focused on putting food on the table, largely through service jobs, and on giving their children what they could, which was a lot. Most of all, they taught us to value happiness and to value being a good person.
I will soon complete an advanced degree (in a non-"Tiger-approved" field), and I expect to make a career in another field not unrelated to but still distinct from the specific area of my academic training. My chosen trajectory may not come as entirely welcome news to all of my academic advisors, but like my family, my advisors and teachers have encouraged me to be relentlessly curious and think for myself. I hope to do the same for my young son, but writing this out has underlined for me that this is a lifelong project, and involves not only parents but teachers and other adults and peers in a child's life.
7
I am a 5th generation American on one part of my family and on another we date back to the Revolution. Working and studying hard was instilled early and continues to be a driving force in my life. 2 degrees, several certifications and a career that will serve me well through my lifetime are the result. Don't let sloth take over your children's lives, push them hard and they will serve to honor their ancestors who worked so hard to get them to America and also their fellow countryman who need them to help make this country a wonderful place for all.
11
Tough choices for parents.
Do you want your kids to follow their whims, as children often do, or do you want them to buckle down and work hard at school (which of course is the job of most children).
As an Ivy university researcher I had many friends and colleagues of great intellect and extremely high academic achievement whose kids turned out to be a mixed--and largely unpredictable--lot. Even within the same family one kid might be a high achiever while the sibling did poorly at school or got involved in drugs. Thing is, there was just no knowing which kid would turn out which way.
However, children are children; they learn largely by example, and that example is most often provided by parents. If the parents have high standards for themselves, their children and others, the children are highly likely (though not certain) to have high standards.
Of course, the tone and nature of conveying the standards can make an enormous difference. A warm, nurturing and loving parent can convey standards in a way that is likely to "take" with kids, whereas a martinet and over-the-top disciplinarian is likely to generate backlash and sometimes even the opposite to what is desired.
Bottom line, given the eventual replacement of many low- and mid-level workers by robots and artificial intelligence, I think high standards are in order for those who would like to see their children not living in their basements after college or dependent on welfare or universal income.
14
Nice and thoughtful article on an important topic. I am also a lawyer, and while I am white (3rd generation American), my wife is Chinese-American (2nd generation American) and is a successful professional as well. We have three little girls and it's interesting to see some of what the author describes come out in our differing parenting styles. When we discuss how we want to raise our children, we agree in principle on everything - we want them primarily to be happy, self-assured, and so on, even if that does not mean attaining traditional definitions of success (as my wife and I both have). But in practice, there are definitely differences. My wife is much more prone to give almost exclusively constructive/negative feedback and to be a bit of a disciplinarian, and I am much more prone to give almost exclusively positive feedback and to be hands off and try to get them to work out their own problems. There really is no reason for that other than the way we were raised. So, while there may be a decline from the second to third generation, I don't think these concepts my wife was raised with can actually be purged from her mind. Also, who is to say that way is wrong, by the way? Us white parents can easily be seen as overly indulgent, creating problems of our right in our parenting style - see e.g. the so-called affluenza case or the increasing notion that anyone under age 30 is a "kid." As is often the case, I think some happy medium lies in between.
8
Mike, My parenting style is similarly different from my husband's - and our styles both derive from the way we were raised. Our now teenager says she's greatful for having had benefit of both. She says she's glad I pushed her to work her hardest and also happy that her father only let me "go so tiger" to only a certain push point on her with result that she understands value of hard work and good study habits but did not lose her mind in process. Reality of it all is she came constituted as she is and, if you take a "whole child" approach, you work with the "clay" you were given to raise successful (and self-sustaining in adulthood!) humans. High standards, push them to be their best without cracking their vitality so also knowing when to let them just be - whether that means they're headed to MIT or to RISD.
2
Great to hear! It seems little chaotic and jumbled at times, but it's nice to know the two approaches can work well together. Thanks for sharing!
My parents took a hands-off approach to academics. I think we children understood that we could succeed if we chose to put in the effort. But we weren’t recent immigrants and didn’t have experience of real poverty. Nobody talked about going to a big-name college or becoming a doctor or lawyer. We were in the middle class and didn’t see a need to out-earn our parents generation. You could say that “striving” wasn’t really on our radar. But there was a ton of laughter in that little house—and there still is when we talk to each other on the phone.
14
I was raised to think that pride in the success of your efforts, academic or career, was what is important. No pride, no self esteem, no life.
Great article and thank you for the valuable insight as a parent.
For my kids, I had one simple rule. For every hour that they read (a real book), or did homework, they could have time in kind on the internet or watch T.V. It usually evened out to about 2.5 hours a day, which they rarely cashed in for in full.
It's worked out well for all of them and I couldn't be more proud. They are not resentful (even when sometimes it collided with their friends' ideas) and all of them are successful.
4
Great article, though I think what's discussed applies to many hardworking families in America who are trying to break a cycle of poverty. I was raised in a tough African American household by a father who basically believed that entire generations of us would have to work hard and sacrifice being happy so that at some point, somewhere down the line, a child, or entire generation, can be born who are free to live, to fail, and to explore the world without economic constraints. How did he define this freedom? He would jokingly say that he knows his life was worth it when he's looking down from heaven and sees his descendants attending college to major in "white people things" which, as he puts it, is "Art History" or "Ballet", or taking semesters off for "backpacking across Europe or Africa" (e.g. things he did not typically associate with people needing to make a daily living). In other words, 200 years post-slavery, he was and still is looking to win what sees as the ultimate freedom for his bloodline. My generation would have to focus on academics and building an economic war chest, so that future generations might have more freedom to try, explore, and even fail at things without fear of economic ruin. Don't underestimate what your father has done, Mr. Park, in creating in you, and through your economic success, the ability for his grandchildren to be free. You and he were simply sacrifices, your daughters are the beneficiaries. It's the American way!
190
so well said, this sacrifice is a means to an end not the purpose solely itself
2
(Corrected:) Your dad is in great company; John Adams to Abigail Adams, May 12, 1780:
"I must study Politicks & War that my sons may have liberty to study Mathematicks & Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematicks & Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce & Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry & Porcelaine."
John Adams too longed to study "white people things," but settled, as does your father, for studies like politics & war (for Mr. Park & for your father, being an "academic gladiator"-- in my own discussions of the topic, defects in the "merit" paradigm, I've used the phrase "REPORT CARD GLADIATOR" to denote the philistine implications of the competitive-to-an-extreme, Darwinian achievement orientation colleges have every right, even duty, to eschew) to found future generations' possibilities/vistas.
My term "report card gladiator" underscores that no "merit/achievement contest" has been devised which avoids severely undermining *purported* intellectual objectives. Once you establish/engage in the contest (particularly when spoils-driven), intellectual purpose is sacrificed. You get at best a simulacrum, & pervasive cheating (see Donald McCabe), the "Heisenberg student," violation of the "Goodheart Principle," almost compulsory philistinism. Learning & "merit" actually inherently conflict. Colleges & students must negotiate the tradeoffs.
2
Your dad is in great company; John Adams to Abigail Adams, May 12, 1780:
"I must study Politicks & War that my sons may have liberty to study Painting & Poetry Mathematicks & Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematicks & Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce & Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry & Porcelaine."
John Adams too longed to study "white people things," but settled, as does your father, for studies like politics & war (for Park & for your father, being an "academic gladiator"-- in my own discussions of the topic, defects in the "merit" paradigm, I've used the phrase "REPORT CARD GLADIATOR" to denote the philistine implications of the competitive-to-an-extreme, Darwinian achievement orientation colleges have every right, even duty, to eschew) to found future generations' possibilities/vistas.
My term "report card gladiator" underscores that no "merit/achievement contest" has been devised which avoids severely undermining *puportedly* desired intellectual objectives. Once you establish/engage in the contest (particularly when spoils-driven), intellectual purpose is sacrificed. You get at best a simulacrum, & pervasive cheating (see Donald McCabe), the "Heisenberg student," violation of the "Goodheart Principle," almost compulsory philistinism. Learning & "merit" actually inherently conflict. Colleges & students negotiate the tradeoffs.
2
My siblings and I were expected to achieve because of the struggles our enslaved ancestors endured for us to exist. Our parents survived Jim Crow southern childhoods, sent us to college and we grew up to become the professionals they dreamed of. My son thought he could slack in school like his white classmates, and I wouldn't allow it. Of course he knows he is loved. Of course I want him to be well-rounded and happy, a man of integrity and honor. But despite how many people say they don't see color, reality is that black male IS the first thing people see. All the degrees in the world will not protect him from breathing while black in public. So I'm happy and a little bit jealous. This luxury Mr. Park has achieved in just a generation is one that remains structurally inaccessible to my family, despite centuries here. Perhaps my descendants will have the privilege of wrestling with such a conflict one day.
132
I just heard a NPR story yesterday afternoon that the most motivated children are ones that have a great deal of autonomy to make their own choices. In the United States, most kids don't have any autonomy or independence and therefore its hard to motivate the vast majority of them because they're in this rut of school and social conformance.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/21/621752789/a-lost-se...
3
Autonomy in making choices is only part of success, howsoever you define it. In child-rearing, allowing children to be self-selective without instilling self-discipline and self-expectation of excellence (to the best of the child’s ability), without being directive in regard to the latter, is to - generally - allow children to grow into adulthood without the capacity to achieve what they might like to achieve.
As a teacher for several decades, I repeatedly saw children who were allowed to do as they pleased, with few (if any) restrictions, fall short in all areas of life, no matter where their interests lay. Self-selection of career, mate(s), hobbies, travel, etc., follows after learning to keep commitments, make and keep to a moral compass, learning to think clearly and analytically (shout out to humanities teachers!), and learning to enjoy examining new ideas and information. The best parents and teachers make sure the underpinnings are in place before youngsters are turned loose to choose their own paths.
2
"They will feel valued and supported. They will know home as a place of joy and fun. They will never wonder whether their father’s love is conditioned on an unblemished report card."
A false dichotomy, surely? Smart kids can have all those things, and still be pushed towards academic excellence by their loving parents.
4
My experience with these cubs of tiger parents has been quite disappointing. Being products of merit oriented love, they tend to be horrible leaders and managers. They lack empathy and believe they are superior to everyone. They think they do not owe anyone anything since they worked hard and sacrificed so much to have what they have earned it all by themselves and have no obligation to give back. They are actually paper tigers, excellent on paper with most impressive resumes and Cvs but completely fake at real life. The pain they have about sacrificing so much joy and love that can never be replaced no matter how so-called success they have makes them mean and unhappy
38
This is so true.
Education was highly emphasized by not only my parents but my grand parents and great grandparents as well. They weren't immigrants in the sense discussed here. My paternal grandfather was the son of a third generation slave. He had eleven siblings. All (except one) received a college education and beyond (from black colleges - Morehouse, Fisk, and others). They all battled tremendous odds but became doctors, lawyers , educators, nurses and the like. His father, the former slave, understood the importance of education. The emphasis and direction however was compassionate leadership and service to others, not mere wealth accumulation.
I do not recall any of them as "tiger" parents or adults. Nor were they monetarily acquisitive or success driven in the sense discussed in the article and commentaries. They were not focused on an "upper middle class life style." The challenges they faced were much bigger.
I see today, the loss of the concepts my forebears instilled in me and those who walked a similar path. The drive to get ahead of everyone else is what is creating the America we see today. Education is not just about being economically successful. It's also about other people and the problems they face. Please try and remember that.
24
I agree with Amy Chua. Do all you can to prevent family decline. Yes, let kids decide what occupations they want to pursue, but do not let them loaf on their all-around academics. As the country becomes more ecomically unequal and under-educated kids become ever more economically unneeded, kids whose parents let their whose academic standards slip will end up in poverty or closer to it than their parents. And don't blame the schools.
Guiding kids properly through their school years is a parental responsibility. Fail it and your kids will suffer.
10
The author describes family evenings spent in authentic learning experiences. I believe that's more important than pressuring kids to ace every multiple choice test in school. Memorizing terms and regurgitating them on tests isn't real learning, but academic standards are based on this type of academic success. Ditch the homework and have a Socratic discussion while doing hands-on learning together as a family.
5
From the immortal Jack Donaghy of 30 Rock:
"We are an immigrant nation. The first generation works their fingers to the bone making things; the next generation goes to college and innovates new ideas. The third generation snowboards and takes improv classes."
10
I would not be so quick with shunning the proven methods that our Asian immigrant parents used in raising us. The reality is that they worked for many of us and they were rarely as draconian as stereotyped. In one generation they achieved the American Dream plus some.
As the saying goes, time will tell how successful our own more "Americanized" parenting will prove. But looking at the success (or rather stagnation) of mainstream middle class America in the past 2 decades, I'm not convinced it's a wonderful model either.
Do you really want your kids to assimilate to an America that has a 40% out of wedlock birth rate where fathers continue to disappear out of the picture? Do you really want your kids to assimilate to an America where recreational drug use is viewed as glamorous or cool by the media? Do you want your kids to assimilate to an American BMI greater than 30? There are real problems with American mainstream culture and lifestyle.
We can improve on our Asian parents' methods, but I would not throw out a proven thing just to appear "assimilated."
14
seems like the author doesn't expect his kids to do as well professionally as he did. could this be because he isn't investing as much effort in their upbringing as his own parents did? could his focus on his own career limit his ability to guide his children as he was guided by his own parents? it seems hard to believe that the author would be ok with his kids not being successful, unless he felt guilty that it was partly his fault.
Asians are doing well not because their parenting is better but because our immigration laws make it very hard for low-skill Asians to come here. Kids of doctors, scientists, and professors are disproportionately likely to become doctors, scientists, and professors themselves, regardless of race or culture (and the Asian groups that did come here more as refugees like Southeast Asians are not disproportionately successful)
It has nothing to do with parenting or culture. If we deported all the white/black/Hispanics who wouldn’t qualify for a visa and wasn’t in the immediate family of someone who would, the remaining white/black/Hispanic Americans would be disproportionately successful too. I knew many Asian-American friends growing up who were subject to loose, liberal parenting (either due to their parents wanting to assimilate or because their parents were too busy with their own careers), and they were also highly academically successful and went to great colleges. You can be a liberal parent and not have to worry about third-generation decline any more than professional-class white Americans have to.
4
I don't know about that. I'm second generation asian American and my dad was a waiter and my mom a teachers aide. All my second generation friends, who were also asian (I went to Stuyvesant) had parents who worked in restaurants or clothing factories. Back in the 60s not many professionals emigrated to America. Maybe it's different now.
11
I disagree with that. My wife's parents came from Hong Kong and owned a small take out place, had no advance training or education. My wife then became very successful, went to good schools, etc. There is a very strong emphasis on working hard and gaining upwards mobility through education in most Asian cultures that has been in place for thousands of years. I don't think this is a case of cherry picking winners.
7
Definitely not the first wave of Asian immigrants from the 60's/70' s. My parents and most of my friends' parents had at most a grade school education.
2
I have seen the tragic emotional price in my psychology practice. Any child - not only immigrant children- who is not given some experience of unconditional love will be vulnerable, even fatally so, as Anthony Bourdain or Kate Spade may have been .
7
I'm Asian American, and I too had Tiger parents and worked at a top NYC law firm. My brother is a doctor. And my sister is a dentist. My wife is a doctor.
When I was young, I didn't like hard work. What kid does? And it wasn't just hard work. It was a lashing from the bamboo stick (we had 3 pairs) if we did poorly. But as I've grown older and now have my own kids, I've come to respect my parents' approach. They didn't like imposing discipline - it's hard to do after a long work day. But it got results.
I only need to look to my Asian American peers who didn't have tiger parents. They chilled all summer long, whereas I woke up at 5am to do math for 3 hrs with my dad. He sacrificed. I still got to play afterwards. Now, my siblings and I make $300k+ a year. All my friends who chilled make less than $150k. Coincidence? No.
For me at least, there wasn't much of a tradeoff with happiness. My parents banned TV. Do I regret not getting to watch TV? Not at all. The average kid watches 4.5hrs of TV a day. If you translate that to studying, you still have plenty of time for actual play - with friends, soccer, bball, reading, etc.
I have resolved not to get lazy as most 2nd generation immigrants do - I too will make the sacrifice in time and energy to teach my kids and set expectations sky high.
My only wish is that affirmative action and admissions policies get modified so Asian kids are not penalized simply for their last names. The current policies are racist.
12
As someone who knows tons of people making $300K+ you actually don't need to go through this torture to get there. First of all, in medicine it honestly doesn't matter if you went to Harvard or no-name med school. Our neighbors during my husband's fellowship were a dentist and ophthalmology resident. Both went to undergrad and med schools in Kentucky that I'd never heard of. Now they're back in KY pulling down around $1 million between them. That's one example; his residency was filled with people with similar stories. I also know a guy that went to a SUNY law school and just made partner at a NY corporate law firm. Or someone that went to another state school and has some random corporate job and makes half a mill. The idea that you need to raise your kids this harshly to make mid or high six figures is way far off the mark.
6
Harsh? I didn’t pick that up from that letter. Three hours of study a day in the summer or replacing tv watching with reading and/or other thought- or aesthetic-proving activities is not at all harsh. This approach to child-rearing provides plenty of access to the joys of “aha!” moments that new learning brings while still providing plenty of time for self-directed play. Nothing harsh here at all — provided that the parent involved in directing the learning truly enjoys learning for its own sake and has, at the same time, a positive relationship with the child.
2
If the goal is money--and that's success-- than your methods may work. But some people have other goals.
9
I have four sons. When they were younger, I screamed and yelled and was a terrorist about their school and work. The younger ones, most exposed to American culture, are most American and have rebelled so badly that I worry if they will make the most out of the opportunities I have worked so hard to give them. The older ones, more exposed to immigrant culture bring some of the negative of back home, but they are disciplined, devoted and always calmly aiming at doing the right thing. I come from a culture where we thank our parents for being hard on us and wish they were harder. Life is mean and hard. For me, I simply try to get out of the way when I think my boys need a spanking.
2
Chua never stopped to ask whether her children did well in spite of how she raised them rather than because of it.
7
Like many 40-something Asian-Americans, I am 1.5 generation, born in Vietnam, railed in Cali. and can relate to the author's values and transformation. I both fit and break the immigration success story. Brown undergrad, Harvard grad. But, I'm not a doctor, lawyer, or even a pharmacist--quelle horreur! In fact, I'm a nonprofit director and my family has always had a hard time understanding how I've "wasted my education." Sigh. I don't know what they think anymore and don't ask. But I have overheard them talk about how I went to Brown and Harvard only to stop at my academic credentials.
24
Another reason why we need 2nd generation (ergo 1st generation) immigrants: more educated citizens. The under-educated, xenophobic Red States are dragging us into an abyss. Despite an educated citizenry in the bluer states, it's unclear that our electoral system (and red state voter suppression activity) will ever let us emerge from their abyss of choice.
4
I did not succeed because I was forced to by my parents. I succeeded, in part, because I represent my family and embody their sacrifices. If one sees that as a burden, another may see it as a privilege.
Every summer, I recall my mother’s practice of sitting us down at the table with a blank sheet of paper on the second day of vacation. (She gave us one day off.)She instructed us to create a schedule for our days, from the time we woke up to the time we wanted to sleep. In that time, it was expected we fit in blocks of piano practice, independent reading, TV, meals, etc., but empowered me in a way that continues to resonate deeply with me. My mother taught me that time is my time to do with how I please alongside some obligations that we all must meet. It’s a lesson I continue to uphold in my life today.
After my first semester of college, my dad saw my report card, littered with B marks instead of the A’s I typically earned in high school. Nervous that he’d get mad at me, I was prepared: “College is hard! You didn’t go to college here! You don’t know!” Before I could employ any of my defenses, he said, “You’re taking out $6,500 in loans this year to attend this school. Are these the kind of grades that are worth $6,500 to you?” and left it at that. I never brought home another B. I learned I was capable of earning the best grades, but my dad had always known.
Neither of these memories smack of tiger parenting to me, but rather, empowerment with high expectations.
18
I have to ask: What if those B's had represented your absolute best effort in college? And your grades did not improve?
The sad fact is not everyone can be a straight A student. Is the message your father sent to you indicative of measuring your worth only by the grades you achieved?
1
Good for you, you’re doing great. Your middle way works for everyone no matter how long ago the family arrived here.
2
Essentially, new immigrants work hard and convey that respect for work to their children who then promptly burn out and want their children's lives to be emotionally richer. Sounds like my family too.
3
This essay strikes me as a bit apologist to those who are uncomfortable with high achieving Asian-Americans. Is the writer really trying to reassure the rest of the population not to worry because in a few years, we Asians will be just like everybody else? Wow. He is truly fooling himself if he believes that. If African American history has taught us anything, it is that racial disparity will sadly always be with us. Instead what he should be focusing on is the continuing racial discrimination Asians experience, not to mention society’s downward spiral towards a larger class divide and intellectual mediocrity. Yes, “tiger parenting” has its problems but there is nothing wrong with high achievement and striving for excellence.
6
nice article, this kind of upbringing isn't limited to Asians, however. any immigrant group with a second generation that excels can tell a similar story..
8
Considering the success of Asian people in this country compared to other groups of emigrants I am of the opinion that Asian people ( and I am not Asian ), as a group, are more intelligent than the rest of us. Is that not possible?
4
Well.....people like David Brooks don't even acknowledge that Asian civilizations existed and thrived way before western civilizations...
2
I'll take the doctor in the top 5% or 10% percent of his/her class over the one in the top .01%. I want there to be some humanity there, not just a big brain. How many of us have had to deal with doctors and many others in life and work who were good at school but terrible at human relations?
13
Many Americans voiced the mantra to study hard. Asking a child "did you finish your homework?" and moving to a good school district is not enough to produce top students. Working in Silicon Valley, we notice the strong study/work ethic of our Asian neighbors.
They have done nothing more than taking what the US says and actually done it. They have studied very hard and now reap professional rewards,
5
The crisis in America is a lack of educational motivation, not too much of it. The world of elite colleges is a far cry from everything else. In everything else, students go to college to hang out, not to learn, and they succeed, managing to graduate having learned nothing. Well, almost nothing; in a typical 4-year college they learn around the same amount in 5.5 years as someone who spends 5.5 years staring at their phone. (Please read Academically Adrift if you don't believe me.)
Thank God for students who actually excel. Thank God for Asian immigrants. In America, there exists the "vital few" who drive our economy--and then there are the rest, who excel only at whining and have given us Trump.
17
My dad immigrated from China actually he was a “paper son” translation illlegal immigrant married my mom who was born in Texas. Does that make us kids 1 1/2 generations in the United States? Do we round up to 2 or truncate to 1? “Just pass” was my dad’s mantra and mom’s was “do the best you can” well I graduated from the U of I. My sister got into a PhD. Program on a full ride at Northwestern University and my brother has an MBA from the University of Chicago. A fluke? My nieces and nephews are the same way. Excel academically play sports and more less go to the same schools.
3
Thank goodness for the subcontinent of India. I don’t think we have seen the passing of high-achieving Asians. I know I would never be where I am today if it not for the informal academic competition of my youth. This group truly brought a in a tide to raise all ships.
3
I wonder if your girls will remember the late night teaching sessions in quite the same way as you, or will they also view you as only flexible when its academically inclined, not just fun times. To me, you just sound ungrateful. I grew up abused and neglected. My parents didn't care, nor did my school who allowed me to pass when I was failing. I paid for it in an extra year of city college. No Harvard Law either. My .79 on the $ was limited to 4th tier jobs.
But emancipation breeds accountability to ROI and I knew my city college degree would never afford me the same third base opportunities as you. You had someone, who knew the hunger of nothing, in your corner. My parents did a terrible job and I don't resent them my path or choices. I have daughters too. Unlike you, I instill a hunger for learning precisely because I know I can't teach them the much more valuable life skills of resiliency and emergent self sufficiency. Girls have it hard enough, I hope you don't make it extra difficult for them. Education for girls is economic empowerment.
Just curious, Given the pressure you felt, all the accomplishment driven elite third base type opportunities, would you consider giving up your legacy college/law school seat, that would otherwise favor your own kids, to a kid with far fewer opportunities?
I imagine you'll find your authoritarian tendencies and push them to your path.
3
Really great piece. Let's not forget that "Tiger Mom" Amy Chua lied. As documented in the NYT and elsewhere, when challenged on some of her odious techniques - like calling her daughters "garbage" and withholding bathroom breaks - she said that her non-Asian husband provided a more compassionate counterbalance to her harsh methods. This invalidated her whole thesis.
It's no accident that her work was celebrated mostly in conservative publications. Conservatives want to transform us all into compliant drones who are primed to obey and have few human needs. And they're smart enough to know it starts in childhood.
6
For all the endeavors you have taken academically and professionally, Mr. Park, none required as much hard thinking as your conscious decision to not repeat your own upbringing. Thank you for putting your kids' wellbeing first and encouraging others to do likewise.
3
I was raised in a very abusive South Asian household. And unfortunately I am still recovering from the effects of the severe trauma/toxic stress I experienced as a child and adolescent. Asians are often depicted as the “model” minority, but physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are very pervasive in Asian families. I hope the NYT will examine this complex issue more fully in the near future. And I hope the #metoo movement reaches Asian communities in America.
8
Why is it that "happy, warm and kind" on one end of the pole, so presumably, studing hard and the eventual success cannot be "happy, warm and kind"?
Does the author of this article feel unhappy, not warm and unkind now that he has achieved success?
Why is it that to truly become American is not to focus on studying hard and reaching for life's highest potential? That sounds self-defeating.
3
I just wanted to add that my (American) father was much like Mr. Park's father...though I doubt that he expected the same degree of success from me. Authoritarian, demanding high performance, and impatient with above average grades (because they were not As). His experience is not just Asian., believe me.
2
My opinion of Asian people in America?
They should be profoundly ashamed of themselves and America should be even more ashamed. But not for the reason you might immediately think.
First of all, the official view in America is that there are no genetic differences between races and ethnic groups, that differences in performance between various groups come down to culture, more broadly nurture over nature. Therefore when one group lags it's theorized that it must simply be brought up by environmental means to be on par with other groups.
Furthermore, when a group excels, such as Asians, it must be explained along environmental lines, that culture, Tiger Moms, etc. is the cause and not genetics. But Asians are excelling so profoundly that not only must it not be explained away as genetic but they are not so subtly told by Official America they must become ashamed of their environmental upbringing so as not to outpace the rest of society! All this when daily we are told correct environmental upbringing will uplift us all, if only we can find the correct environmental method!
In short, Asians in America are subject to a contradictory mess of double talk. They are told their genetics is not responsible for their success when we can suspect that to a large degree genetics is responsible, but when they emphasize nurture over nature as the cause for success they are made ashamed of that because apparently the rest of society cannot figure out how to emulate them!
Verdict Asia.
5
I went to high school with Amy Chua's daughters. The book caused quite a stir in our school and eventually, our entire family read the book. During a dinner table discussion, we decided to absorb the book as it was presented - a self-satire of a potential way of parenting, an interesting method but not something we would do.
Mr. Park, please don't think for one second that a supportive parenting method would detract from your children's potential for greatness. Building these strong relationships is definitely the foundation for your children to become passionate and successful in a healthy way. Paired with the early emphasis on learning that you've already begun, I see many great benefits.
My brothers and I are examples of such parenting. We're from the 1.5 generation - born in China but raised in the US on an income near the poverty line. We did math drills and reading exercises with our parents, but would always play at the park and have meaningful discussions afterward. These small lessons in discipline became paired with passion in our early enrichment activities, like chess, writing, and running. We were never forced to engage - rather, we loved these lessons and found ourselves practicing for hours on our own. We're now all in Ivy League colleges but as a positive consequence of our passions. Today, as nationally-ranked chess players, published writers, non-profit founders, and marathon finishers, we can add "happy" to the list of something we can call ourselves.
14
As someone also raised this way, I completely agree with this comment. Thank you for your wonderful wording and congratulations to you and your parents.
1
I have a lot in common with the author -- I am an Asian American who went to a top university and law school, and am now raising two daughters. Like Mr. Park, I have chosen to raise my daughters as a non-Tiger parent.
But sometimes I wonder whether I am actually so different from my own parents.
I'm not for one moment saying that I *enjoyed* many aspects of my upbringing. But the older I get, the more I appreciate that my parents wanted the very best for me. Towards that end, they made endless sacrifices, one of the greatest of which was fighting their natural impulse to comfort me instead of exhorting me to try harder.
It is one of the cruel paradoxes of life -- that the expression of profound love for one's child sometimes takes on the appearance of the absence of love.
I don't agree with every aspect of my upbringing. But raising my own children has helped me to understand and appreciate the endless difficult choices my parents made in raising me.
20
I have a brother who is an Asian American attorney with a similar background to you and the author. He also chose to raise his children as a non-Tiger parent.
His daughter displays a lack of drive and motivation which surprises me. I don’t know if this is a result of her affluent upbringing or an intrinsic part of her personality. She seems very fragile, as if the smallest setback would derail her. She can’t tolerate any sort of criticism at all. I wonder if this is a product of nature or nurture.
2
I am torn. While I understand the zeal to be nurturing as a parent, the world isn't a nurturing place. Success (if that's your goal) doesn't always present itself to well-adjusted nice people. Strong doses of smarts and intense focus yield tremendous results in our society, as this author's success attests.
With '60s era immigrants into their second and third generations of Americanization (a rationalization for accepting a gentleman/woman's "C"), where will the next push come from? Post WW2 Jews dominated Bronx Science and other NYC "elite" schools, which makes sense given the success curve of immigrant families. Now the Asian population dominates.
But as this nation closes its doors and build walls, and immigrants are no longer welcome, what's next?
Maybe DeBlasio is right. Maybe we mark-down the threshold for entry to schools like BXSCI (which has graduated 8 Nobel laureates based on its current criteria), abolish the test, create a rainbow not necessarily based on acumen and convince ourselves that a gentleman's C is actually an A.
Or, we can let the high bar stand and watch as the next hungry ethnic/cultural group steps up and takes the mantle from the Asians, just as incoming Asians took it from the post-war Jews. This is a solution I prefer.
And, hey. If we address the REAL problem with NYC's separate and unequal education system and provide excellent schooling in our poorest neighborhoods, who knows? That next group could be blacks or hispanics.
15
Wonderful piece. I'm an Anglo-American in his 70s and I still play what is often considered an "elite" sport. In the past decade the sport has become a landing pad for ever larger numbers of Asian-Americans and their kids. The sport is considered useful for padding college applications. I consistently see young second-generation kids being pushed hard by their parents, even during practice and coaching sessions. Some fathers will stand nearby watching the entire coaching lesson. I doubt whether this is because they are just interested, but more that they can then remind their kids what the coach said. As a veteran of the sport I wonder how long these young athletes, many very talented, with stick with the sport simply because they love it. In another generation, we'll know the answer as the current generation passes the 40 mark. I sincerely hope a lot do stick with it, in spite of the pressure from their parents now.
3
I think there are two immigrant stories. One is to require the next generation to achieve academic and professional success at all costs and the other it to require the next generation to never outshine the parents and to stay at the same academic and professional level as the parents. Neither way works perfectly. Both have always been part of the immigrant story.
2
Thank you thank you thank you for this piece! I too am always feeling conflicted about how I approach academics and success with my daughters. I clearly recall the screaming and spankings that came with less than stellar results in my childhood. But I'm also terrified that my girls won't be as "successful" as I am. It is comforting to know that other children of immigrants also face these very real fears.
3
My European mother nagged me about homework and I underachieved in college, barely getting into med school. My European wife underachieved too. We did not push our 2 daughters, who became a lawyer married to a European doctor and a neuroscientist married to a web site designer.
My unpressured oldest grandson did not get into a top college, but is getting straight As and speaks 4 languages fluently.
8
We too reacted to a tough as nails type of upbringing vis a vis education, but I'm way ahead of you on this one: We raised our kids with the nurturing, whole-child approach, and, honestly, seeing them now in their twenties, it really annoys me to see how complacent they are. Lacking drive. I don't have an answer.
23
I agree that it is important for a child to feel that a parent's loves them no matter what mark is in the report card. However, I believe a good parent will instill ambition in a child, and a realistic roadmap to achieve goals. Children are spoiled by parents who are granting all their wishes but they need to learn early on that in the real world, nothing is given, everything is earned. I noticed that many spoiled kids (especally with no siblings) even when they are very gifted, they feel that everyone has something against them when strangers are not as accomodating as their parents, and make them earn stuff. I was at the opposite side of this op-ed, I had lax parents and I was much more ambitious than them and I suffered that they encouraged the easy, when I wanted to go to the best but fartherst highscool (they kept me at the local mediocre one above my will) or when I wanted to learn how to play piano.
5
Very interesting article, Mr. Park! Thank you.
A key takeaway for me is not to confuse outward success with true success.
Outward success may be career, prestige and wealth.
True success to me means a fulfilling life with good relationships, spiritual life, compassion and service to others, gratitude, healthy emotions, economic self-sufficiency, and more.
16
Different means to different ends. Mr. Park's sentiment is, as a result, I think less revelatory and enlightened than it might seem.
As others pointed out, many 1st generation immigrants have had a laser focus on getting their kids to be either 1) doctors or 2) lawyers. The means to this, particularly in the 70s-90s, was fairly straightforward- have them study really hard to get really good grades to get into really good schools to have the freedom to choose to become doctors and lawyers.
The end now is different, certainly for Mr. Park. We don't care if our kids become doctors or lawyers. We want them to be "happy" and "self-fulfilled" and to "find themselves". Different ends for which there are different means.
Let us also be clear: this position that Mr. Park takes is a fairly privileged one. I wonder if his take on things would be different if he were poor and had, as the only local option, a vastly underperforming school.
8
Well written. However, I find it interesting that Mr. Park leads with his credentials and continues to list them. I get the point behind doing this, but I also understand that he, too, has absorbed his parents' goal for him.
12
Two points:
1. Would you think any differently if you had Asian American sons instead of daughters?
2. I think the tiger parent in its stereotypical form is over. The new form of Asian American parenting involves a hybrid of both east and west - in essence, eastern discipline with heavy emphasis on areas that western society has stereotypically (and unfairly) labeled Asians as weak in (i.e. "bad" personalities, not athletic, not confident or social, etc.)
9
I know many people do something completely different once they have control of their lives . Lawyers become jewelry makers, writers, comedians and the list goes on. But here, mr Park is still a lawyer! I think his parents got it right !! It was a little harsh but I think they did a right thing. Bravo to your parents. I’m a single mom of a son that didn’t take any academic advice from me. He went on to college for something that I wasn’t familiar at all( animation ). Only to drop off because he said it required too much time ...that enabled him to even hang out with his friends. He would have majored on something else (and might have excelled !) if it was up to me. In this case I wish I was in your parents positions . Bravo to them and their son is still practicing LAW!
10
My mom, from Soviet-controlled Eastern Europe, depended on her ability to excel in her education and the cultivation of skills to escape the poverty and monotony guaranteed her in that system.
Born in the US, I was an insatiable learner from the very start. This made me an easy subject but my parents made it fun, while being very firm in their push for my success. It didn’t stop at book learning. I was guided to try any and every “extra curricular” activity I might have been interested in, especially music, dance and athletics. Knowing how to swim well, dance well, move and and carry oneself are a fixture European upbringing (who knows if they are anymore). There were things that I hated, there were things I tried that stuck, and that I loved. I was labeled a genius at a young age and followed through with scholarships.
For ages, I did feel like the black sheep of my generation in the family: for all of it, I pursued a not-as-lucrative creative career, I don’t have my PhD (yet). But I’m so thankful, and knew that their love didn’t rest on their expectations of me. I don’t think this parenting style is unique to immigrants, but maybe to any generation with the drive to use their story to provide something different for the next.
11
Great. Lower grades, in a poorer school system. That should make America "great again." You can insist on performance and discipline, while being an openly loving parent. Walk and chew gum.
27
What an off-base comment. You must not have read the whole piece. Mr Park is open about the fact that he and his wife hope for academic success and encourage and expect it, but won't mandate it through harsh discipline and lack of warmth and love.
5
Read the thing. That is what this parent advocates.
1
If all children, Mr. Park, had your upbringing, we would have no need for protectionism, fewer jails, and safer parks.
The fact is that we have abandoned what works for all, and now have millions of lazy idiots, as the "self-motivation" of students leads them to succeed or fail, and so many young people misbehave that the better parents flee the public schools if they can, for private schools, hastening the decline of the public school avenue of mobility.
I prefer rigorous upbringing so that, as adults, these well-behaved people can afford therapy. In short, I prefer privatized therapy for the well-behaved over public-funding of jails for ill-behaved dolts who ruined the public school experience on their way to a life of crime or indolence.
28
I'm encouraged that Mr. Park is able to define "success" more broadly than his parents did. Having letters appended to one's last name is not the only measure of achievement. Nor is the size of one's portfolio. Simple joys are important, too. So is the freedom to explore. Raising an automaton who cannot revel in the present without applying some metric of success should not be a parenting goal. Kudos to Mr. Park.
15
I have a vivid teenage memory of my Dad, out of the clear blue sky, turning to me on a drive and counseling me to pick positive attributes from other adults. That is, not from him. He wasn’t expressly excluding himself, but it was a rare bit of soft personal counsel, an admission of sorts, from a man who instilled more anxiety than he might. He was a success by most measures. A tough act to follow. In my 30’s, my Dad in his 60’s, I shared with him my still-at-30-something immature understanding of his relative lack of warmth in my youth. His answer, “I understand. You should have seen my Dad. He’d pass me in the house without saying a thing. For weeks.” Now in his late 80’s (and doing well), me in my 60’s, we continue to get to know each other better. And, I continue to seek example from others, including Dad.
15
I'm afraid I'm the bringer of bad news...
As another product of "호랑이" parents; while I don't have any graduate degrees (yet) I did manage to graduate from Harvard college, started a few companies yada yada. I agree with much of what Mr. Park says about the loss of childhood and sacrifices made by the children (but don't forget the parents!).
As other commentators have pointed out, this is because Asian immigrant parents were more likely than not fleeing desperate conditions back home. They arrived at perhaps the best possible time in American history; with unparalleled prosperity many barriers (except notably to African Americans) fell away. My father remarked that when he arrived, it was easy to make money, when I came of age he said it had become much more difficult.
This exceptional period period as Thomas Piketty may have intimated in "Capital" is coming to an end. Climate change, overpopulation and soon automation will make many of us redundant. While these changes may seem slow in the U.S., I live abroad in a nation (Vietnam) that is undergoing vast restructuring. They may not have time to become rich before the tides of history (literally) swamp them. And they, and most of the world, have so very far to go.
As a reverse immigrant, I think I strive a little harder seeing how precarious survival let alone success can be. Seeing the poor in a third world country make you wonder how will we all survive. The answer is, many won't. So don't get too comfortable.
161
Thank you for your letter, the elephant in the room is climate catastrophe which unfortunately for the US is being avoided at all costs with our new sheriff in town!
There is a quote from a movie that kind of goes like this: "It is cruel to create in a child the desire to win and then to fail to prepare them to do so." I'm second gen Asian American. I will raise my children without the obsessive focus on academics only because I know that other skills are necessary for economic success beyond this. And I still want them to excel in their studies. Why? Because they are accustomed to an upper middle class life. If as adults, they end up with less - a gig job, a low paid job in the arts or non-profits, an academic job that pays little, or an hourly job - they may not have access to good affordable health care or safe neighborhoods with good schools. They may not be able to support a family without multiple jobs. They may have to give up nice things in life that they are used to. Doctors and lawyers live a nice lifestyle. So if you don't expect your children to excel in in academics, and are fine with middle of the road, and you don't have a trust fund set up for them, you really should prepare them for what life will be like with less.
104
"Doctors and lawyers live a nice lifestyle." Really? Working 60 hour weeks, stress, etc. You don't have to go to college to have a nice lifestyle. There are plenty of other paths. But if you're intent on the high road, I recommend university professor (esp'ly humanities). The pay may be less than a doctor or lawyer, but....let me just say there's a lot less cleaning ear wax or counting billables.
12
What about if we make our country safe and provide quality free education to everyone. Could these children selflessly lead a reform like this. It seems they will be only good to themsleves with their achievements
2
Mr. Schwartz, working long hours and having a little stress in ones job does not make one necessarily have a bad lifestyle. You should encourage your children to work hard in whatever career they choose. Conversely, a job that allows you to make a lot of money to do nothing is not necessarily a virtue or healthy for the person and their offsprings in the long run.
1
Perhaps the author's decision to parenting is more a reaction to his childhood, rather than becoming more "American". I can empathize the author's experience because I am a second-generation Asian immigrant too.
Looking back to my life, certainly my childhood was not fun. However, I have a great sense of appreciation to my parents because I would not be as successful as I am without their scarifice.
Ultimately there is no single way of parenting that would guarantee happiness and success in your child's life. It depends on your child's personality and your core value.
8
totally agree. Also a second-generation Asian american here. So much of my childhood went into studying and drilling haha. Seemed painful and unnecessary at the time. But once the time came to applying those skills to solve real world problems, that's when those experiences became extremely valuable. In college and beyond, those early experiences in a sense "freed" me to find more creative and effective solutions to problems that interested me. This is because I no longer had to struggle with "core" principles of math, science, literature, etc. There was a method to their madness, it turns out lol.
For sure, there were some things my parents could have done differently to motivate me, and these are things I would do differently for my own children today. But at the end of the day, my parents pushed me because they cared. They cared that I learned, and they cared to cultivate in me a solid discipline and understanding of intellectual concepts that would serve me well in a competitive world. They wanted to make sure that at the very least, I would have opportunities to pursue that were never available to them. And at least in our family, they wanted to make sure I had the opportunity to make contributions that were also meaningful. I actually think "tiger parents" have their good points and there is a lot people could learn in general from the emphasis of the Asian cultures on education.
4
I am so sorry your childhood was no fun. A happy childhood is one of the best things a parent can give to a child. I have never found the pure and unspoiled happiness I had as a child at any other period of my life. I would not change a happy childhood to perfect grades. By the way, I consider myself quiet successful
3
One of the things that jumped out at me while reading Battle Hymm was how miserable Amy Chua seemed to be.... Fancy degrees that were now unused. Strained relations with her parents and kids.
What was the point, exactly?
I vowed immediately to take a different approach with my kids.
With them, I stressed the joy of living with purpose. The rewards of introspection and growth. The highs of interconnectedness. The delight of discovery through discipline. The importance of responsible communication. The absolute necessity to own one's voice and truth.
I taught them that quirky was just another word for creative. I taught them that obstacles create new strategies. I taught them to gut check. To play fair. To be nice. To work hard and do one's best.
They are in teenagers, hardly perfect. They don't budget so well--we are working on that. They are B+ students and both have real areas of excellence they hope to pursue. They are kind. Their friendships are healthy and their crowd eclectic and interesting. They are happy children.
I would like to smugly congratulate myself for my achievement but I know better. As much as I parented with purpose, I also had kids that responded and were well suited to the teachings. I got lucky. Let's talk about my parenting prowess in another decade. :-)
Point is, you are right. Follow your gut and teach emotional health. It's the only thing you can give your kids they will carry for life.
58
As for being a teacher for 20 years I don’t know if my observations pertained to general or exceptional cases but I remember noticing collaboration among Asian students during STEM classes that didn’t occur among other groups. I admired this practice.
17
This is a great essay - but I think it overstates the importance of parenting. I'm a college counselor and I find that parents often know very little about the details and nuances of the high school careers of their children, especially in academics.
My son is almost 16 years old and was born here. My wife and I are from India. While we emphasize the need for him to study hard - the drive to do well comes from competition in school. He has tasted the sweet success of good grades.
Most kids in his peer group refuse to take on-level courses preferring honors and AP courses which award grade bonuses. It is he and his friends who check their grades online each day - we are happy to receive a report card once every six weeks.
High school grades and the ACT composite score are the two top factors in college admissions. These have remained unchanged in nearly 40 years. As long as this is true, top performing students will continue to express the behavior of "tiger kids", whether or not they have tiger parents.
15
One of the reasons I believe there exists lingering resentment in tiger children for their tiger parents is because of a deep understanding of the injustice of the methods. It may be so deep an understanding that it remains unconscious. Noted in this article is the near-religious belief that a child's efforts can bring unlimited achievements. Now that I have two children with autism (twins, one has been more severely affected), and have suffered from having to temper my expectations, I feel I am now better prepared for what lies ahead. I have a better appreciation for the inherent worth of the individual. While we must always encourage our children to achieve what they can, it is probably better to de-emphasize our own grandiose and self-serving goals that we project onto our children.
54
As a newly minted senior citizen my view on this issue can be easily dismissed as "selective memory" or worse "in my day.....".
Having gone to more than my share of high school graduations, I've heard the resume's of the students, most of which would make a good case for Noble prizes: peer-counselor, varsity athlete, volunteer at soup kitchen, Eagle Scout, and first violin in the all-county student orchestra. My recurring thought is when do these kids get the time to be kids?
I applaud Mr. Park and other parents who understand childhood happens once, enjoy it with your kids.
27
I am just a little older and found your post hilarious. My mother grew up in a religious cult. Boys got to play. Girls had to do chores and were not supposed to go to college. Mom emphasized my education but not in a tiger mom sort of way. When she realized I was doing well, she imposed endless chores when I was not doing homework. My brother had to do homework, but then got to play. I soon learned to draw out my homework for most of the evening. In seventh grade, I turned in a meticulously researched 100 page report on the Civil War while my classmates did maybe 30 pages. I was my own Tiger Mom but was allergic to keeping house.
Your daughters' grades won't disappoint you, because today almost everyone gets As.
We need achievers. Some day you may need a neurosurgeon. Certainly you will need medical expertise of some sort. Don't you want your doctor to have as broad and deep a knowledge of medicine and medical skills as possible?
Children need to be motivated to achieve. That doesn't require harsh methods, but it does require more subtle setting of goals. These days, it seems only athletes are motivated to excel, but athletic excellence is useless, a waste of effort. Excellence in professions that contribute to society: medicine, science, engineering (one hesitates to say law, but it can too---consider the miraculous Constitution left us by our Founders) is important, and requires the habits of study and thought that begin in childhood. Even less "intellectual" jobs (airplane pilot and mechanic) require the habits of diligence and attention to detail that are inculcated in childhood.
32
Did you know that while it's hard to get into medical school, medical school itself is ungraded? Chew on that.
1
Of course, you embrace the decline. The entire USA is embracing the decline and is lowering the standards, while the rest of the world is increasing theirs and try to copy the good old America, the envy of the world. The new America ushered by Obama (whom I voted for) wants to replace meritocracy with a poorly understood, herd-like diversity. People are laughing about this new America.
27
Herdlike diversity? Do you read what you write?
2
I'm 1.5 generation (born in China but largely grew up in the US). My parents were strict in terms of expectations but also free range in many ways. They never cared what I watched or how late I stayed up at night. But they always expected me to do well academically and work hard in my jobs. I'm now a surgeon. My wife's family are not recent immigrants. We have a young son.
I don't think I will go as far as the author here and let my kids slack off when I know they can do better. I've seen some members of my wife's family that were more lenient with the "let the kids be themselves and love them anyway" style of parenting. It generally doesn't turn out well. Many of them are still living with their parents, taking 6-8 years to graduate college, and generally lost in life. It's the parents' jobs to parent and give guidance. The real world is not a sheltered suburban lollypop land. The competition is brutal in all levels of the economic ladder.
285
one thing not mentioned in the comments yet - how there can be lingering resentment of the strict tiger parents even if they made you a 'success'. They may support/visit out of obligation but all that strictness about grades does not lead to a close, loving bond. In my own social circle of 2nd gen parents, many are successful but choose to live hundreds/thousands of miles away from parents. The parents have 'bragging rights' but, in the end, are alot lonelier.
86
I hope those parents are not too hurt that their second-generation children chose to live thousands of miles away from them in their old age.
I had those very parents myself and always understood their expectations and methods came from the deepest place of love and hoping for the best for their children. They don't do it for bragging rights. Could never imagine holding resentment towards them knowing how much they sacrificed..never needed them to be "warmer".
My sister taught kindergarten outside of Rochester, NY, back in the heyday when Polaroid and Kodak research centers there. On occasion she would find herself at parent/teacher's conference sitting across from two parents, both with PHD's, being attacked for not introducing some of the advanced math programs that they claimed existed for 5 and 6 year olds. And why no classical music playing during nap time? My sister wanted to reply, why does your boy Johnny still wet his pants in class? Why does Johnny seem to be the happiest when I'm playing Farmer In the Dell on that old piano? Why does he come to me for hugs five times a day? Of course she couldn't say any of that back then.
When I was in fourth grade, I also witnessed this with a few friends of immigrant Jewish families. They weren't allowed to come out and play until their homework was done and checked, and they had put in an hour practicing on their instrument after that. Often this carried them into dinner time, so no play time at all. I remember their wistful replies when we came to the back door to see if they wanted to play softball. And the stern answers we received from their moms... Sports was frivolous in those two families.
I guess with their parents holding down menial jobs, they saw education as the key to success. I have no idea how the boys turned out . The parents cut them out of the herd, so to speak, and redirected them. But I always felt bad for them; there didn't seem to be much joy in the family.
47
While the appropriate balance between love and discipline can be very difficult to determine, this story really highlights how much parenting styles influences a child's academic and financial future. The author notes the high rate of poverty among Asian Americans in New York and their overrepresentation in high performing schools despite these economic obstacles. This says to me that family emphasis on education can improve outcomes, although this clearly needs to be balanced with love and respect for the child. I wonder if there are any lessons we can take from this to lift up other economically disadvantaged groups so that they can benefit from some of the same academic and career opportunities (while seeking to avoid the depression and anxiety that the author cites). For example, could increased investment in mentorship programs geared toward academics help other economically disadvantaged students to experience similar opportunities? I don't have a definite answer to this, but I think it is worth considering.
23
The authors piece is moving and insightful, and one I can relate to. As a 1st gen immigrant parent, from one of those brown and black countries recently denigrated, I can tell you that we, and many of our peers hold the same values and make the same investments in education described here. I do not regret writing tuition checks, or the plethora of extra curriculum activities, and I do that knowing that there remains structural impediments that will limit the opportunity set our children will have, the resolve of our commitment, enormity of our investments and the ability of our children notwithstanding.
1
As a geezer grampa, I chuckle as the kids struggle to excel at parenting their kids. We are all human on this planet. Some strive to achieve greatness, but not all. Kids grow older and decide, or not, to do something useful. Parents are proud or dismayed, but, they think it is their problem. It ain't, fortunately. Our son is outrageously successful. He excels in business and pleasure. He loves his work and his wife and all their kids. I could be totally proud, if I wasn't also aware of the simple fact that if he had been a neurotic, unemployed addict I would love him, anyway. I am only half second generation. Mom was first generation. Pa was almost a native. Earth is where we are all natives. I love it here. Society and other fantasies are interesting, but humans generally are too busy arguing and having very important wars to ever amount to much. We would like to document our successes, but, the number of children starving to death every day draws me up short. Dream on, dreamers. Sigh.
26
Children only starve (today) in war zones: Syria, Yemen, etc. Blame dictators who make war.
This is not just an immigrant issue. I became a lawyer and my brother an engineer, it didn't even seem to us like a choice to us. Financial success, education and independence were paramount to our parents and we were the first family members to become professionals. My daughter, unlike me, has been raised in affluence. She does not stress about financial success because she has a safety net. I saw this pattern repeatedly many times in our affluent suburb. Parents who made it a rung or two up from their background, who could now afford to let their kids consider things like career satisfaction vs. making enough to buy a house with decent schools.
48
I agree with Mr. Park that the current predominance of Asian-American kids at the top of the academic ladder should be allowed to take its natural course. In the meantime, however, these kids should not be penalized for raising the academic bar. It’s not their fault that other students work less hard or come from dysfunctional homes or bad public schools.
Instead of trying to bar Asian-Americans from achieving their academic dreams, both educators and politicians should be trying to figure out why so many white kids, even from the better school districts, are unable to compete. And they need to tell us how they plan to reverse their failure to adequately support learning environments in black and brown communities in the richest country in the world. (It certainly doesn’t help that the Secretary of Education refuses to visit public schools.)
Spend time and money on getting white, black and brown students better motivated and educated instead of eradicating the dreams of Asian-American kids.
306
Sure, but still everyone cannot go to Harvard.
2
I think was is missing when people talk about the first generation was the sacrifice of everything in the home and how these people lived.
Yes, the parents concentrated on education, but all resources where dedicated to the child. No money for vacations, no fancy cars and no fancy houses. The immigrants worked themselves to the bone working whatever job they can get. Education was always viewed as the ticket to a better life.
99
Jason,
You’re right, but that just reinforces his arguments. These kids carry the weight of their families’ futures on their backs. Even if they wanted to, they couldn’t be, for example, a teacher or police officer, or they couldn’t pursue a profession that doesn’t guarantee success in the same way that law and medicine do.
3
It comes down to what you really want out of your brief time on this Earth. You want to be educated, to succeed, but more importantly you want to be happy, to have love and joy in your life, instead of constant stress and shame. It's a balance, and sure it can be easy to succumb to temptation and laziness sometimes. But when you find yourself screaming at your kids to go to bed or scolding them for not being perfect, all so that they can be happy maybe at some later time in their life, you need to stop and think about what all of this is really for. Nobody wants to be on their deathbed wishing that they had been less uptight and more loving during those precious years.
58
I know for a fact that staring out the window in school, having outside interests, mooching around doing nothing in particular, and never going to an 'enrichment camp' did not stand in the way of my academic success. I have four degrees (including a PhD) in four disciplines (Modern History, German, Critical Theory, American Government) from reputable institutions, including Oxford and Georgetown. I am gainfully employed in technology.
My parents demonstrably loved me and my brother unconditionally, extolled and emphasized a love of education, inquiry, and critical thinking, exposed us to other cultures and to culture, all without having much money or themselves having educated, cultured or financially stable backgrounds.
You don't have to be a tiger parent for your kids to succeed. I agree wholeheartedly with those who argue that successful parenting is more than demanding your child have a JD/MBA/MD/large bank balance. Success is having a happy, kind, independent child.
219
My daughter put herself through school and has achieved more than I could ever dream of. We gave her love and support in difficult and happy times, gave hugs, words of encouragement, and let her be herself, telling her you can achieve whatever goal you set. She has two brothers with degrees of autism that have also suceeded, because we offered love and support, hugs, happiness. My daughter has a doctorate in neurobiology because that was her choice. What were my dreams for her and her brothers? To be happy.
3
I just bought a roll of wallpaper. Took only a couple of hours to put up too.
4
The way your parents raised you is exactly the way I raised my son: unconditional love, joy in learning and critical thinking, and exposure to other cultures.
The result? He has a BA with a major in math from Princeton, and last week he was awarded his PhD in theoretical math from MIT. This coming year, he will be an associate visiting professor in math at UC Berkeley. Oh, and he now speaks seven languages.
But even if he hadn't had all these achievements, I would love him just as much. I brought him up to believe that being a good, moral, ethical, kind person is more important than all the achievements in the world. I believe he has learned that lesson well.
3
There is no single "right" approach to parenting children. As any parent of more than one child can confirm. It is a dynamic with the parental approach and the way the individual child receives it. Some children would do well to be told what they should be and follow a set path, as having a multitude of choices can be overwhelming to the point of paralyzing for some. Others need the flexibility to chose for themselves and yes, experience all those options.
Academic pressure also can either be parentally imposed or self imposed. The author may decide not to be a tiger parent, yet as a lawyer with a wife who is a doctor, his two daughters may very well feel pressure to exceed based on their role models.
What is important is the love and acceptance we give our children. Permission to fail and struggle and find their own way in life.
20
The idea that Asian parents are all harsh disciplinarians a la Amy Chua or this author's dad is an unfair charge. I'm always disappointed with this trope as there are billions of Asians and millions of Asian immigrants, not all can be tiger moms/dads. Some are that way but most are not. Certainly anecdotally, my own parents, first generation immigrants from China, were not like that even if they were strict on some things. Sure, I learned the multiplication table early, memorized classic Chinese poems, did workbooks in the summer and played the piano but I also got to play sports (badly), watch sailor moon and break my arm playing outside. I remember watching some highly inappropriate soap operas as a kid so clearly my parents were not keeping too close an eye on me. I ended up well, going to a top school and studying engineering (typical Asian path) My point is that how harsh or strict a parent can be is not an Asian thing or an immigrant thing. It's just your parent(s). Ironically, in a total opposition to this article, I'm told that I am more rigid and regimented than my parents which my mom thinks will mean I will be too strict one day with my future kids.
11
Sounds like some people need an education in statistics. When faced with evidence of a general trend of over-representation, it's not relevant to say, "well, not all...", or "that's not my experience".
15
Totally agree. I’m an Asian-American immigrant who overachieved. But that was through my own interest in school and drive, not at all because I had some crazy authoritarian parents. In fact, when I dropped out of law school briefly, my parents thrust art-school ads on me because they wanted to encourage me to pursue creative careers, which they believed would make me happy. This stupid tiger-parent stereotype takes credit away from my loving, supportive, and frankly lax (academically, socially) parents as well as my own achievements. I’m tired of people assuming I didn’t succeed of my own volition, or that I didn’t have fun with great friends and Roman of freedom along the way.
Please, fellow Asian-Americans, stop perpetuating this. If your parents were authoritarian, that’s just them.
6
Hi Max, it sounds like someone needs an education in reading comprehension. Did you even read the op-ed? It's about tiger parents and whether the high pressure environment this writer and supposedly other Asian kids grew up in is why they are successful. This whole piece was anecdotal as there is no such research so I'm not even sure what statistics has to do with it. There's no statistical research about whether the large numbers of high achieving Asian kids are raised by tiger parents. Hence, I am providing anecdotal evidence of my own life to show that there's no need for tiger parents. At no point in my comment did I ever dispute that there is a statistically high level of professionally successful Asians... that is certainly a statistical fact. However, that's not really the point of this op-ed no?
It looks like we've refined the measures of success to include not just academic and career achievements, but also "happiness". How about also teaching our children that they have obligations beyond themselves, their families and their friends? That they will also be judged on what they do for those who have the least. That's its not all about themselves. The root of the toxic political atmosphere in this country is that far too many families are obsessed with passing every advantage to their children, without pausing to think of their greater obligations to society.
435
I agree with this comment, but, I think that the inward focus is a result of growing wealth inequality. The numbers show that the middle class is disappearing and it's harder to get a toe-hold in a comfortable middle class life. Many young(ish) adults are not as well off as their parents were at the same age, and many parents do not think their children will be as well off as they are. When people feel their socioeconomic class slipping, or worry about it slipping for them or their children, it makes people less civic-minded. I catch myself slipping into this mindset with my own kids, telling them to do well at school so they can have a comfortable life. I also remind them of the importance of helping others, and set that example myself. But, on balance, I know that I nag them more about THEIR future than OTHER's needs. This is a good reminder.
11
The root of our "toxic" political atmosphere is corporate greed, not happy families. Actual studies have shown that children whose emotional needs are met with love, kindness and attention, i.e. whose happiness matters to their parents, end up more empathetic and, one can assume, more likely to care about the plight of others.
13
"It looks like we've refined the measures of success to include not just academic and career achievements, but also 'happiness'. "
Wow. Nowhere do I find Mr. Park equating happiness with success. In fact, he specifically states them to be distinctly separate concepts: "And if so, was the trade-off between happiness and success worth it?" That is the central point of his article.
And while I respect your advocacy that we should care for others, how are you reading that Mr. Park is advocating that "happiness" equates to selfishness? He directly calls for raising children in a supporting and respectful environment, and teaching them to be confident and kind. Isn't kindness one of the key character traits we need in order to have a society where we care for each other?
3
That landmark immigration act was one of the many products of the centuries long struggle for human rights led by African Americans.
All too often, most immigrants including Black ones, are unaware of the pain that African Americans have historically borne to achieve the rights that enabled many of us to legally migrate to the United States. Given that ignorance far too many look down on African Americans even as they take advantage of the opportunities they made possible.
LBGT rights, racial/ethnic rights, and accessibility initiatives, among others, all flow from that long and ongoing struggle to respect our common humanity in all its diversity.
These highly skilled offspring that we are justly proud of must go beyond the acquisition of ivy-covered credentials, gilt-edged internships or their capacity to code while sleeping.
So we smile as they celebrate success and revel in individuality. They are however also obliged to pick up the mantle of an ethically-informed creativity, to make a commitment to struggle, and to demonstrate a sustained compassion for the less fortunate.
These are the some of the crucial qualities necessary to make our system more equitable.
16
There is a subtext to the article and it is the assumption of access to a good-enough school system and parents who earn enough and know enough to position their children for success.
Our emphasis on parenting, which is less influential than we think, must be balanced by attention to social factors that limit many children at birth.
How many of those low-income children of Asian heritage do not get a good-enough education?
Imagine a family that trusts the school to prepare their child.They ensure that their child is well fed, focused, disciplined and that the homework is done.
The child who, according to his teachers, is brighter than a thousand suns doesn’t get into a specialized high school. It turns out that his junior high school did not teach the subject matter that is covered on the entrance test that the child took and so ‘failed’
I teach at a college in NYC and see these students who were not offered the rich curricula that so many of middle-class parents take for granted.
All the parenting in the world doesn’t mean much if you child is in an under-resourced school and the family is not embedded in a well informed and diverse support network.
Look at segregation, institutionalized inequality and quality in our NYC public schools.
Look at the children in very well-resourced families and schools and observe the average student outcomes.
What’s a good-enough parent to do?
Parenting matters but so does institutional support.
166
You make a valid point, but the major emphasis of this editorial is that having involved parents who emphasize learning and achievement (even if we now say that achievement is the pursuit of joy and not good grades) is the most important factor in raising children who are successful and happy. The civil rights movement allowed many previously excluded peoples into the American mix, but it is parenting that allows the children of those peoples to do well. I believe emphasizing proper civil rights instead of proper parenting is much less effective in helping the next generation.
12
"Imagine a family that trusts the school to prepare their child.They ensure that their child is well fed, focused, disciplined and that the homework is done. "
The Tiger parents do much more than this because they realize the school can't do it all, it is just one part of what comprises a good education.
They take the initiative of teaching their kids the multiplication tables early on, have them practice an instrument at home and on the bus, etc.
Successful children have parents who went above and beyond what the school provides, they know it is not enough, even if it is a good school.
Wanting one’s children to excel while also providing a warm, supportive, and authoritative [note: I didn’t say authoritarian] parenting style is not just an immigrant thing. My husband and I, whose families’ roots extend back to earliest colonial days, took this same approach with our kids, as our parents did with us. So did the parents of my kids’ high achieving peers. Our kids and their friends went to our state’s equivalent high school to Stuyvesant and Bronx Science and were accepted into the nation’s top universities and work for major employers at high level careers.
So, there does not need to be an academic or professional decline in later generations. But there needs to be BALANCE in learning and parenting styles to promote nimbleness, flexibility, and creativity in thought for today’s students to remain competitive in the 21st century workplace.
22
Let's teach them cooperation and kindness along with competition
6
Same for us. All immigrants, not recent and we had high expectations and involvement and enrichment, without the authoritarian heavy hand. Successful kids in love, life and money. Lots of travel, learning opportunities, encouraged their interests in music, sport, art, etc.
2
It's worth reading Amy Chua's book all the way through. Her answer to whether tiger parenting was the correct way was yes....and a qualified no. In fact, much of the book is about how her second daughter taught her it must be balanced with some respect for autonomy etc. When even the Chinese grandmother recognized they were losing the daughter under the autocratic initial parenting, Ms Chua realized the cost (one child a cardboard cutout success but perhaps completely losing another child ) might not be worth it. And no one should worry about there being less concert flautists and nuerosurgeons: it would be a ridiculous world if everyone were one of only a few professions, as well as having too many doctors and lawyers.....it's a success for the world to let each person follow their true path. Who knows what beauty, innovation,care,progress that can bring?
17
My mother-in-law was born to young, penniless immigrants who escaped the holocaust and pushed education on their children even though I don't think they even finished high school. She went on to become a doctor, but my MIL wasn't a tiger mom (or the predecessor Jewish mom) with her own kids. None of her kids were great students but they all landed on their feet just fine professionally and financially. The third generation greatly benefited from the advantages that resulted from their grandparents' emphasis on education. Perhaps if the immigrant grandparents didn't push, then the third generation might not have fared as well.
Though the author seems to have mixed feelings on his upbringing, he can be grateful that due to his parents strict emphasis on education his children can enjoy what will likely be a great childhood with far more advantages than most children in the US. As an aside, I liked the author's compromise with his daughter on an extended bedtime but only for learning / academic pursuits.
7
Yes, that's a fantastic compromise. I admire the wisdom of it.
1
My limited understanding of the the first-second-third generation dynamic is that it is not limited to immigrant families. It can be found in family business as well -- the first generation establishes the business, the second generation expands the business, and then the third generation either doesn't join the business or squanders their wealth.
17
Good point! I've seen that so many times, including in my own family. Of course, not joining the family business may be the best choice for someone as an individual. My own second-generation father, along with his brothers, felt they had no choice but to work in the family business. Two of them hated their lives and died young, while the other two loved what they were doing. But no one in the third generation went into the business (of course, as a girl, I wasn't expected to).
Two points: (1) I wonder what the grandparents think. Do they have any regrets, or are they critical of their adult childrens' parenting, or some of both; and (2) with the scope and depth of the problems society and the world are now facing, the time to think of "success" so narrowly as becoming or marrying a doctor or lawyer needs to be questioned. Financial concerns, as important as that is, or the signaling of status, are going to be relics if we can't find ways to reverse the flow of the currents sending us down multiple drains. Perhaps occupations, even those which don't yet exist, or do but don't have names, should be the new criteria of "success."
5
That would be a great follow-up article, on the immigrant grandparents' perspective.
And I do agree with your second point, that we need to question a societal or culturally-imposed definition of "success." My own experience in working alongside with many of these kids pushed into professions is that they are unhappy and that it manifests itself in the workplace, often negatively.
2
Many parents have a laissez-faire attitude even in relatively well off suburbs which rubs off on children through peer groups. I know because I was one of those kids getting my Asian friends into trouble for not going to their after school math drill class or attending to homework rather than playing basketball or video games. I'm a little bit jealous in retrospect that those friends had parents, brothers, sisters, cousins reinforcing academic expectations. I did fine eventually with a lot of remediation that wouldn't have been necessary if relatives were watching more closely.
73
This is a path that began in middle school, desperate to appear cool among kids who also take an anti-intellectual stance, asking "when am I ever going to use that math?". Not surprising then that it compounded into being several grade levels behind, too embarrassed to ask for help when I did start to realize it mattered.
2
@BB - Why, yes, of course, We should expect all kids to always make wise choices with or without any support from families and relatives. Absolutely, tiger parents and their somewhat less strict but still involved counterparts are completely unnecessary because it is up to kids to realize that their poor choices while still children can mean unsuccessful lives as adults.
1
I really appreciated this perspective. I'm a tutor working with many young second generation Chinese and Korean students and I waver between admiration of what these kids can achieve and horror at what seems like a loss of childhood.
58
What a wonderful story. I grew up in an immigrant Indian household in the 80s and 90s. My father came in '68 to do his PhD in Physics. Our household was demanding, but it was also quite fluid in terms of the general rules that most other Indian kids had to follow. My brother and I excelled at sports and played multiple varsity sports in high school. We were allowed to go to parties with friends, and we were even allowed to date! However, we knew exactly what the red lines were and when not to cross them.
In general, I think their style worked as well. My brother and I graduated college with Electrical Engineering degrees (another approved major) and both worked at Bain & Company (a newly approved career). We now work in technology, and my sister is a Physician, so I think we hit the mark for the most part. Much like you, two of us married Indian doctors and the other an American with a Stanford MBA, so even the mating choices tended to follow the same pattern.
I am hoping to emulate my parents' style, which seems quite close to the style of parenting you are building. I have two sons and I don't push them as hard as I may have been pushed. But, I do have a concern that our parents' success has created comfortable lives for us and our children and that we will lose the drive that has made Asian Americans so successful.
These parenting choices are a constant struggle, but one that has provided me more enjoyment than any other challenge in my life.
92
Thanks, Ryan. As a fellow 2nd generation Asian American, there is a need for a more balanced upbringing than the one I was exposed to growing up. Many of us are blessed w financial success and stability due to the work ethic instilled in us and the opportunities afforded by this country. Now it is time to consider the next step in the hierarchy of needs. Happy, confident, kind children sounds like success to me.
48
The outcomes of our children in life are ultimately not controllable and any parent who thinks so is doomed to woe. The most you can do is be loving and supportive, maintain firm boundaries, let your own life be the foremost example of the values you hold dear, and then - let them go.
172
Amen, the best response.
Great essay, but a little background info will help explain why tiger parents exist. In the 1960s life in Korea, say, was very tough for the great majority people, same in the '80s when I was there. Most work was very low pay with long hours and almost no rights, and higher educational opportunities went to a small number of top high school kids--the rest were out of luck, unlike in the US where good jobs were easy to get, universities are plentiful, and community colleges provide a way to higher education. So many Asian parents pushed their children to excel in school to avoid low-end back-breaking wage slavery.
144
I agree, Hector. In addition, to this day, most countries only admit graduating high school seniors to colleges or universities. If a young person does not get in at age 18, that's the end of any hope for higher education for the rest of their lives. Therefore, parents put their children very, very hard all through primary and secondary school. And so, the habits and expectations of a lifetime are established.
24
Ridiculous. Urban public universities are full of veterans, late bloomers, school of hard knocks graduates, single moms and other non traditional students. It takes hard work and much longer but it is doable and people graduate from these circumstances all the time.
All or nearly all the nationalities immigrating to the U.S. faced the same kind of experiences in their home countries. Even among the earliest Europeans to arrive, there were few who came from privileged backgrounds. After all, why would those people leave the good life? Many people were so desperate that they came as indentured servants. In fact, it is estimated that between half and two-thirds of the white immigrants arriving between 1630 and the American Revolution were indentured. Most of the immigrants coming in the late 1800s into the 1900s were fleeing poverty, starvation, and military conscription. Many of them had to learn to write their names just so they could demonstrate that they weren't illiterate upon arrival (although making an X was often good enough for "signing" an official document). We look at western European countries now and see how prosperous they are; it wasn't always that way for the majority of their citizens and many eastern European countries were even worse.
The fact that almost everyone in the United States today is descended from people fleeing just these kinds of desperate conditions and yet so many among us have no understanding or empathy for today's immigrants boggles my mind.
1
These first letters point to the difficulty of this issue. My sense is that second generation economic success often breeds third generation overly indulged kids. Parents don’t want their kids to be as driven as they were, they don’t want their kids to feel that love is conditional on academic success and focus. Unfortunately that can lead to indulging kids financially, forgetting that the relief from economic deprivation is wonderful but needs to be coupled with character development and a focus on values. Yes some kids left to their own devices will become art history majors and they will have to find their way in the economic world. Many of these young adults go to professional schools when they confront the realities of the job market and some even stick with their love of art and find a career niche for themselves.
8
Yeah, sure, but I think Mr. Park is missing one big piece of the puzzle.
Ryan Park explains his experience, and the experiences of so many East Asians, in terms of culture and the "immigrant mindset". What he misses is that Asians coming to America in the middle of the 20th century witnessed, and personally experienced, real privation. They were hungry, figuratively and literally.
Watching people drop dead of starvation, as millions of Chinese did, during Mao's "Great Leap Forward", concentrates the mind wonderfully. And the gruesome history of Korea, from 1895 when it became a slave labor camp for the Japanese, until the end of the "Korean War" in 1953, would be unbelievable but for the fact that it is true.
In other words, the difference between Mr. Park and his parents is less about metaphysics and more about his being fat and happy while his parents ran scared, knowing from bitter personal experience how bad things can get.
397
My first generation immigrant Asian father comes a very poor country. And all I can say is that the victimization card covers all manners of sins. And in the end their brutal drive to have their children succeed is not about their children, is not about putting food on the table, and is certainly not about happiness. It's about status and their desire to feel better about themselves.
When tiger parenting fails, it fails spectacularly. And when it succeeds it often time still fails spectacularly.
9
Many of us come from immigrants who arrived in the late 1800s and early 1900s and who also experienced real privation. My grandmother came from a tiny town where, if your family had a chicken and the priest wanted it, you gave it to him and were left with nothing. Where it was acceptable for her father to beat her mother senseless out of his own anger and rage at what had been done to him when conscripted to replace the rich landowner's son in the army and lost his eye. She had no education and could neither read nor write when she arrived, but scrubbing floors on her hands and knees was a better alternative to life in her village. My step-grandfather came from an Italian farming region where conditions had deteriorated to starvation levels. And while I have no Irish in my family, I'm well aware that "Between 1845 and 1850, a devastating fungus destroyed Ireland's potato crop. During these years, starvation and related diseases claimed as many as a million lives,...."
My sense is that while most immigrant families from European countries did not go so far as Asian "tiger parents" in the way they treated their kids, many were strict with their kids (my parents' generation), set high standards, and stressed the importance of education--or as in the case of my Italian relatives, unrelenting work on the farm--as the path to success. Many of our parents were far gentler with us, although to others it took yet another generation.
Perhaps there is some truth to that, but lots of other groups of immigrants also arrived in the US from poverty stricken, crime ridden, war torn countries, like the immigrants from Central America, Venezuela, Middle East, Africa, Eastern Europe, but they do not push their children to succeed the same way the Asian parents do. It is very much a part of the East Asian culture to revere education.
Thank you for a very clear and well-written essay, Mr. Park. Your story is a very interesting insight into how it feels to be a "tiger cub". I think that, before deciding on a parenting style, one first has to clearly identify the values you want your adult children to embody. If wealth and material possessions are your most important hallmarks of "success" then by all means teach your children to be focused, disciplined and competitive. But some people and some cultures value close, mutually-supportive connections to extended family (especially elders), or creative and independent thinking, or service to god and others. First decide what constitutes adult "success" in your world view. Then you will know how to raise your children.
31
Relationships to extended family are highly valued in Asian cultures. The push for education is not for material wealth per se. If that were the case, more Asians would be pushed into finance or business. Instead, the importance of being highly educated and to prove oneself academically is mired in (likely) Confucian values. Education for educations sake.
4
I hope more 'tough love' parents -- who usually emphasize toughness much more than love -- will realize what you have realized: That love matters, too. Yes, the world is tough -- and that's why we need to know that somewhere in it there are people who love us. The research bears this out. If you really want your kids to do well, emphasizing learning, yes -- but also emphasize love.
175
Concur. I read about a study, probably in the NYT, years ago that the defining/foundational difference in life outcomes (balance, ability to love, creativity, "success", joy of life) was whether or not one was a well-loved child. Being well loved comes in lots of packages. In my own experience growing up in the midst of the baby boom, growing up with dozens of playmates within walking distance of home (54 children within our 1/2 of the block of single family detached homes, and that was just one street of a town made up overwhelmingly of such streets), this dynamic played out with astounding accuracy. Don't get me wrong, I believe in the power of education to give any given individual greater freedoms of choice and greater likelihood of achieving financial satisfaction. I'm also grateful and cognizant of the fact that I am the product of a loving home and THAT was the foundation of my self confidence, my personal drive, my own "successes," and I'm eternally grateful to my parents for that.
3
When I was a 4th grade teacher in the late 90s, we went on a field trip to Ellis Island. The trip was 3 hours long and we watched a video on the way there. I had one Asian student in my class. She was not allowed to watch the video. Instead, she had her flute sheet music out and was practicing fingering. I'm sure she is a "success" not, but the cost was high.
40
May I offer that perhaps for your sole Asian student, the European immigrant experience of Ellis Island was not as relatable to her as a tour of the Asian immigrant experience of Angel Island (San Francisco Bay) might have been?
Many children take up an instrument but very few become competent enough to feel good about playing. Don't underestimate the benefits in self-confidence and creativity of mastering an instrument and having the beautiful world of music open to you as a participant, and not merely as a consumer.
You speculate about her "success" using ironic quotes. If you try to see the world through another's eyes, your perspective may become a bit more open and accepting of differences. And less judgmental, perhaps?
6
I live in a northern California university town. Our city has placed pianos around town, for anyone to play whatever they like. We hear some beautiful music from amateurs pianists of all ages, some clearly homeless. One of the pianos stands outside the entrance to our public library. I recently visited there and saw a mother setting up her young daughter at the keyboard before going inside. Yes, they were Asian. When I left the library, the mother was presumably still inside, and the girl was practicing her scales and arpeggios. It broke my heart that she was not allowed to go browse in the library, but instead compelled to follow her mother's script.
6
Unless you know this Asian 4th grader as an adult, saying "the cost was high" is completely judgmental on your part. Was she crying while doing this? Did she suffer? Your opinions are your own and belong only in your head.
5
You do your children no favor when you allow them to slack off when they should be studying and striving to be the best they can be academically. It's tough love, not participation trophies, which produces children who will be successful in later life instead of unemployed art history majors.
25
Did you do more than skim this? He is clearly setting boundaries and doing more to encourage his children to think and learn than most parents have the time and energy for — through no fault of their own in most cases. Between the demands of home, long days at work, hellish commutes and carpooling kids to practices, music lessons, field trips and a thousand other things, parents are exhausted. I recognize this even without being a parent myself. The time the writer invests to help his daughters learn and the creative methods he uses are awesome. Everyone needs balance in their life. Even you. Perhaps especially you.
98
Most of my classmates and I managed to slack off as well as study in our youth, and we're employed. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, which it sounds like the author understands.
20
The lesson here is that at all costs African American and Native American should never strive to excel at school like this Harvard Law School graduate. We don’t want minority children following in his footsteps to Harvard Law School. Imagine the damage to the African American community if their children poured all of their energies into science, medicine, engineering, computers, education, mathematics, etc. Thank you for this important message that effort and concentration has nothing to do with success in your career. Better to just hang out, play basketball and video games. It’s a great message for all families.
'Successful' ? What, exactly, is 'successful' ?
It's not just immigrant families who have over-ambitious parent problems. One friend's mother kept a three-part photo frame on her piano. She inserted photos of her three children only when she considered they'd achieved 'success'. (Success according to her own definition).
Now the same woman is living with dementia. What she really needed from her children, it turned out, was not being CEO of some huge corporation. It was love and caring and compassion.
65
I usually never comment, but I had to for this one. Thank you so much for writing this, Ryan Park. I can't express my gratitude for how your calm and thoughtful (yet still determined and passionate) observations. I admire how you've found this place in between being compassionate and critical, both towards yourself and your parents. It felt like you were speaking directly to or about me and the entire generation of Asian kids we grew up with. I find it comforting that you think our generation will react by going towards a more Western or hybird style of parenting. Thank you so much.
70
Thank you so much for your article Mr. Park; it moved me to tears of deep recognition. While my situation is very different in details from yours, in some kind of essence I am my own tiger mother and child of tiger mother and now, at 78, grandchild of tiger mother. What a great gift you have given both to your own children and to many others of us living in today's discouraging world. You transmit and inspire grace and hope and joy. From my heart, thank you.
41
It's important that children learn to make the right choices, which doesn't always happen when they're simply told what to do, and punished if they don't. Rigor and structure can breed good habits, and high standards are important, but some degree of freedom to make decisions, even bad (but not fatal) ones, to be able to make mistakes and learn from them, are all vitally important in the development of character, and ultimately finding fulfillment.
However, this is somewhat of a novel concept, especially for many immigrants who have come to this country with very little, in search of a better life, often toiling long hours in physically demanding jobs. They want their children to have a better (and easier, in a sense) than they had, to be educated and financially successful. However, the 2nd generation, upon becoming doctors or lawyers (also worth noting that these professions have changed over the years, with large hospital companies and biglaw firms making things a bit more "corporate") and attaining "success" may often find that what was pitched to as the road to a happy life, didn't lead to happiness after all. Having seen behind the curtain, the 2nd generation may have a harder time selling this bill of goods to their own children (and these children are also very capable of knowing whether or not their parents are actually happy).
The 2nd generation wants a "better life" for their children as well, their definition is just different than the 1st generation's.
86
The saddest part of young people today (and it isn't just Tiger parents who happen to be Asian, true of a lot of especially upper middle income parents) is the idea that kids can't make mistakes, that there is no room for error in the upward track towards 'success', however you define it, that they have to track the kids into everything and they shouldn't dare try anything that might be seen as a good EC for a top level school, or worse, attempt a class way out of their comfort zone and maybe not get a perfect A.
You have to get dirty, take chances and make mistakes (to quote Ms. Frizzel on the "magic schoolbus") and you also can't assume that what you decide as a parent is necessarily a good thing for the kid or best for him. how can the kid know what his passion is when you decide his future is in "medicine/law/investment banking/etc), when those who are truly successful in those fields are because they are passionate about it (the gentleman whose name escapes me, Obama's Secretary of Energy, nobel prize winner). Even in fields where success is not easy to define,like music, tiger parents turn it into something you create a rigid path with, so practicing 8 hours a day is a good thing, spending time listening to music or books on music theory or history is not important (and folks, this is from direct experience, my son is and has been in that world a long time). In some ways it is translating the work ethic of hard manual labor into more educated pursuits/
2
Most parents want to give their children opportunities they did not have. So don't blame immigrant or first generation American parents who want their children to have what they did not have.
Many Baby Boomer or Gen X parents, especially those who are professional /middle or upper middle class parents are equally obsessive in the ways they bring up their children, albeit with different focus.
I routinely see soccer/T-ball/basketball parents screaming off the sideline every time their children "advance" or get the ball. Many of these same parents were never athletes, and they are probably mocked as nerds in high schools.
Other parents want their children to be "popular" or "well-liked" so they make elaborate plans for their birthday parties. Stay at home Moms compete to "volunteer" in their school system, so that their children would get an edge with the teachers or get an assignment to their "preferred" teachers. These parents are not necessary helicopter parents, but man of them are. And they "give" everything they can afford to their children.
These parents can and do benefit from a reorientation of priorities, and place more emphasis on getting their children to learn well at an early age. Most of us will never have children that would become the next LeBron or Tiger Woods, but they can become self-sufficient productive members of society.
68
I wish it was true that stay-at-home moms compete to volunteer. There are never enough volunteers; no competition required. (And yes, I know from hard experience.)
I certainly wouldn't want the next Tiger Woods.
Frankly, I've often thought the "tiger" parent mentality to be misguided. For preparing people to enter limited-space, zero-sum, arms race professions, like medicine and law (at least in the United States) it could have some minor advantage. Maybe. After all, what do you call the person that graduated last in medical school? Doctor.
Furthermore, this parenting style would seem to cripple people's ability to function in highly creative or innovative fields - a free range, free spirit upbringing seems much more effective here - Steve Jobs comes to mind. I highly doubt you will ever get Einstein or Faraday level of genius with the tiger parenting style.
81
I would agree that a very controlling parental environment might not create a Steve Jobs. Free range parenting on the other hand is potentially high reward but also more prone to abject failure. Strict, controlling parenting will limit the potential upside and downside.
2
You don't get an Einstein or Richard Feyman level of genius with the Tiger parent because their focus is not on the creative or innovative but jobs that will make a lot of money so they don't have to worry about the future. It isn't that the kids aren't bright or aren't geniuses, it is that genius needs to be nurtured, and planning out a kids future, not letting them explore and especially take chances, but rather doing things that track them to that prestigious profession...it stomps it out. In music, Asian kids in the US are a major part of most music programs at all levels, a lot of them are there not because they are interested in music but because their parents believe it is an EC that gets you into an ivy league or similar school (and it does help for the record), the kids achieve pretty high level mastery but not musicality. For the kids who want to do music, the emphasis on the rote, on the brilliant technical skills, often kills off the musical skills, the interpretation and even the passion, and it hurts them (as does the idea that only being a soloist is "valuable", it is why Asian students tend to concentrate on Piano, Violin, Cello and to a certain extent Flute, because they are solo instruments).
The kids learn the reality of things, and while some of them are as intense as their parents, others learn there is more. These days another profession Asian kids are pushed towards is in finance/investing, top investment firms these days hire Asian kids out of ivies.
5
Kindly refer to the great Indian physicist C.V. Raman, or the great Japanese heart surgeon Amano Asushi, spawned of 'tiger' parents, and you can easily see how misguided your words are. Tiger parenting is just that, parenting - the children have within them the skill and desire to become what they may.
Take a look at mainstream American culture. We have an unhealthy population with lousy sleep and eating habits, a high level of obesity, a shockingly high level of extreme inequality, a high murder rate, and a high level of depression/anxiety that appears to be worsening. Those immigrant cultural values, warts and all, look pretty good in comparison.
4
Because Mr. Ryan Park's father wanted his son to be successful, he devised his son's childhood. Now Ryan park wants to devise his two daughters' childhood. Their childhood will be different from his own. But I wonder if Mr. Park the elder had not devised Ryan Park's childhood, would Ryan Park have had the resources to "devise" his daughters'? My New York Jewish friends went through a similar dilemma. So did the refugee population in India after partition. I don't think the Tiger Parents enjoy being tiger parents. Can they take chances?
61
I don't know if they enjoy being Tiger parents or not, but they fall back on what they know, which is the kind of heavy handed control that was required to survive where they came from. Asian immigrants to the US stress that kids needed to get top grades, get top test scores and get into 'the top schools', because in their own countries you literally need to do that. In China, if you don't track at the top, do great on standardized tests, and get into the top colleges there (a handful), your career choices are diminished. Hence Asian parents aiming their kids for the Ivy League schools and the like.
By the second generation kids realize that isn't true, that the US is a bit different (outside the Ivy league self choosing positions, like jobs at Goldman Sachs or the like, or white shoe law firms that 'only take ivy league or elite school graduates'), that you don't need to get into Harvard to be successful, or that there is only one way to live, that there are other factors in what you do for a living other than strictly the financial.
And yes, I am sure immigrant parents are looking to the future and wanting their kids to be able to support them...and not surprisingly. In India and China and other places in Asia, there just isn't the social safety net or things like Social Security; the kids are all they can depend on. It isn't that Asian immigrants refuse to use the safety net, they do, it is that they don't trust it based on their home country.
4
Wow, this hit home; I think as the immigrants ( I am a banker and my husband a college Professor) we insisted that the education was the most important thing and there was no other option but to go to college for our two sons. We also understood that without any family here there was no one to “bail us out” in case of emergency and we insisted on self reliance at all cost; we felt that the good education and good job after will provide that.
I remember our sons rebelled to our insistence on excellent grades and could not understand why B was not good.
I think we provided a nurturing environment but I wonder whether somewhere deep inside they probably think we were too strict....
Only the “couch” will know...
27
I can speak of India where the students concentrate more on their schoolwork.
The role of children in the family is clear-cut and two-fold: Respect your elders and obey your parents. Study hard and do well in school to secure a bright future.
Parents manage their children’s time outside of school, assume the role of educator after school hours, teach their children that being a student is both fun and rewarding, have a genuine respect for the teachers.
In effect it's clear the parents provide a pivotal role the youngster's education.
Undoubtedly the academic success of the students depends on the solidity of the family structure. It is this factor dominantly responsible for the Asians forging ahead of their American peers.
Divorce in India is extremely low compared to the United States. In America around half of marriages end in divorce, but in India it is a mere one per cent. Statistic speaks for itself of severely damaged American family structure vis-à-vis Asian nations.
I argue that severely flawed family foundation is the main reason for the non Asian Americans will find it almost impossible to catch up with their Asian peers.
To aim to raise children who are happy, confident, it's also absolutely essential to maintain the sanctity of the institution of marriage and resist the habit frivolously changing spouse, a typical American pass time.
48
What about if abuse is present? Or are you denying that occurs in Indian/South Asian families? Here is a sobering statistic you may want to consider: 31 percent of married Indian women have experienced physical, sexual, or emotional violence committed by their husbands (Source: 2018 — Indian National Family Health Survey (NHFS-4)). India is also one of 36 countries where marital rape is still NOT considered a crime. Please educate yourself before you extol the supposed virtues of Indian/South Asian families.
29
I’d rather be happily divorced than miserably married. And I am.
11