This is in an incredible tragedy for the victims and Indonesia at large.
I lived in Indonesia for more than 10 years. I am fond of the country and it's people - some of whom are still my friends of being more than a decade apart.
I lived under Suharto, his overthrow, an emerging democracy and then violent Bali and other bombings.
I remember I used to tell some of my friends there that this snake of being holier than though will come back to bite you.
And that's exactly what has happened as over recent years, Indonesia has abandoned its model of "Panch Shila" (Five shields) - one of which is living in harmony with other religions.
I went to Indonesia last year. And definitely noticed more Muslim garbs - especially the head coverings of women. Folks at my favorite watering holes told me that local customers have all but disappeared.
And last year's conviction of Jakarta Governor on blasphemy charges was an inflection point.
I hope and pray that Indonesians reflect and get hold of this monster before it devours this wonderful nation and more I importantly, it's people.
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It is an unfortunate fact that there is a remarkable unquestioning conformity in sharing the same intolerant views in nearly all Sunni Muslims. In my lifetime I have seen tolerant and liberal Muslims become hyper-pious. It is the new Islam. It is amazing how almost the entire global community of Muslims have become infected with intense piety and intolerance. If a Muslim girl acts like the majority secular community member anywhere on this planet some people will quietly have a talk with her parents questioning the family's morals.
The religion does not allow free thought. It demands conformity. I have seen their tolerance and normalcy in the past. I hope they can achieve it again and rejoin humanity, freedom of thought and tolerance for diversity again.
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This is a country where non-muslim minorities jailed because of "blasphemy" (that Jakarta ex-Governor is still in prison right now).
Islamic teachings are set in stone, you cannot reform that (they somehow proud of this fact).
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These middle class & upper class male-descent dads w/ hidden socioeconomic woes (ex. failing to get academic & professional success like other relatives; falling for get-rich-quick MLMs) are blends of 2 types of family annihilators:
1) anomic - he commits familial murder-suicide when his ability to sustain the family's lifestyle & image falters, &
2) paranoid - in killing himself along w/ the wife & kids, he is lovingly protecting them all from even greater threats (ex. lifetime ostracism & poverty, or an eternally damned afterlife).
Family annihilators exist in any race & religion. They may be current or fading elites in their communities & industries, unable to find satisfying solutions to perceived threats to their core identities as family providers/leaders.
For instance, the late Crown Prince Dipendra of Nepal killed his fellow Hindu monarch parents, siblings, & himself since he did not like his dad's plan to shift Nepal from an absolute to constitutional monarchy, plus was frustrated at not getting parental approval to marry an Indian royal.
US businessmen William Parente and Steve Sueppel killed their spouses, kids, & themselves when their respective Ponzi schemes and embezzlement were about to be uncovered. US baseball legend Marty Bergen and Canadian wrestler Chris Benoit committed familial murder-suicide as their famed careers ended.
ISIS drills depressed dads to blame Western ways for their woes, turning them into family annihilators & mass terrorists.
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All religion and its inherent cognitive dissonance is a scourge on humanity. There are no gods, no devils, no evil spirits, no angels, no heaven nor hell. There is only this life to live and it is best to learn as much as you possibly can, to love as much as you possibly can, to empathize with others as much as you possibly can, to realize that you are here and in whatever situation you're in whether it be fortunate or unfortunate by mostly luck and therefore to be humble and willing to do everything that you possibly can to help make this world a better place and stop worrying about an afterlife.
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As the child of liberal to moderate Muslims (I'm a born atheist) I can tell you that stories like this are the worst. Stories like this make people treat even their friendly, corny joke cracking oncologist of many years (like my dad) with some degree of suspicion.
A black friend once told me that every time a crime is reported on the news she prays the perpetrator is not black. I know exactly how she feels. I am sick of saying "not all Muslims." I don't know what I'm supposed to do about it. If anyone has any suggestions please advise.
Better yet, please tell me why this story has you suspicious of all Muslims, but the Santa Fe shooting hasn't made you weary of white teenage boys. Yes, guns are a problem, but more often than not it's white boys/men wielding those guns.
Perhaps you have a white male in your family and you wouldn't dream of laying this at his feet.
Now you know how I feel.
12
On the face of it, it's because there's a certain tradition or belief system that says its adherents ought to commit such acts, or at least it has been so interpreted by some of its adherents (and others). There is, by contrast, no book of the white male that spells out such expectations.
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I went to see the Dalai Lama when he last visited my city. In the question and answer period after his talk he was asked what the worst thing in the world was according to his enlightened viewpoint. His answer: IGNORANCE.
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I wonder if they would have made it through the vetting procedures used to screen prospective immigrants to the United States.
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Good old patriarchy strikes again; obedient wife, obedient kids.
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So are you still in favor of "family values and close family ties"?
Religious fanaticism corrupts and destroys here as well as abroad.
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Yes, this proves you can't trust those Muslims. As an American you are far more likely to be shot by a white man than killed by a Muslim extremist. I wonder why the latter seems to scare you more?
3
The good thing about communism was that it made religion unfashionable. It should be made unfashionable if in 21st century there is still such nonsense going on. We should be moving towards enlightenment, but instead, the world is moving into dark ages with the fanaticism, lies, fake news. Humanity is rather pathetic.
15
Up here in Montreal, We just has a Muslim husband and wife given a suspended 9 month sentence for saying out loud that they wanted to kill their daughter. Why? Because the daughter wanted to integrate into Canada's "average teenager's milieu.
Such nice parents!
Thus is our judicial system!
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Religion and the afterlife, delusional notions of what death brings. But clearly brings misery to many people.
15
Too bad that religious beliefs continue to be part of
humanity.
21
One more country to add to the travel ban
3
We don't make our kids suicide bombers but apparently our current culture makes some of them homicidal school shooters who mow down their teachers and fellow students. This culture would have to change profoundly for this to stop. And our country is currently so broken that we can't even have an honest conversation about our gun laws and gun culture and how a change in this nightmare could take place to protect the lives of our people. Our Congress and President are owned by the gun lobby through huge campaign contributions. How can we make this stop?
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So much for the "poverty makes terrorists" idea. It's time to put that idea to bed once and for all.
32
Three seemingly moderate, even "liberal" Muslim families in Indonesia turn out to be jihadists pulling off or planning acts of terrorism where they along with their children all set off suicide bombs meant to kill Christians. Yet no one they knew suspected a thing.
I am embarrassed to admit this, but as I read this story the terms "extreme vetting" & "Muslim ban" kept coming to mind.
It's politically incorrect to say the obvious, but by not saying it we in the West are contributing to our own demise: wherever Islam goes, bad things follow. Such as blasphemy laws & other restrictions on speech & expression; the veiling, abuse & denial of rights for girls & women women; death to gays; rabid hatred of Jews; & violent jihad & terrorism.
Also, this article says that one of the reasons these jihadis seemed moderate is that the girls & women didn't wear the niqab, the face covering that leaves just a slit for the eyes. The veils in this case only covered their heads, necks, ears & upper bodies, allowing them to show their faces. In 2018, this is the definition of moderate? Really?
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Isn't this more evidence on why "Muslim Ban" don't work? You miss the part where they live among non-muslims and befriend non-muslims. Do you really think it would've been hard for them to turn into Christians in order to get around your "Muslim Ban". I think you should be embarrassed, for not thinking things through and only look for easy answers.
4
Bombings viewed as Jihad, good deeds that will get the family into heaven together.
This is sick, sick, sick. So sad for those children. The parents were clearly mentally ill.
23
Maybe, but arguably a contributing cause to this is the fact that, in this world, it is considered okay, even laudable, to believe things without having any evidence for them, such as that business of entering heaven. It is even protected, here, by the Constitution.
Lest it should seem on a quick reading that by mentioning the Constitution I am saying it's a good thing, I am not; I'm saying the opposite. Thank you.
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