I really can't stand, nor understand, this fawning, gushing, deathbed-vigil idiocy. John McCain is a thoroughly flawed human being, and a similarly flawed politician. He HAS had his moments as a Profile in Courage, but those moments were, for the most part, calculated, strategically timed, and like as not contradicted by other strategically timed reversals. I regret that he has a terminal condition; this we must all face, and I wish him a peaceful departure. But I will not engage with the St. John foolishness, which is neither deserved nor accurate nor appropriate.
10
Every day that McCain was a POW he would have been freed immediately if he acted dishonorably. That's what makes his acceptance of his imprisonment courageous. He chose to suffer because it was the right thing to do.
McCain's father and grandfather were admirals. North Vietnam offered to let him go free immediately after capturing him because of the propaganda they could generate if he agreed to act dishonorably. That offer was NEVER rescinded. Every time McCain was in physical pain and emotional anguish, he could have escaped it all the same day. All McCain had to do was denounce the USA conduct in the war, denounce the USA & the Navy & leave behind every body lower in rank than him in the prison.
7
I've always thought highly of Sen. McCain, and believe he would have been an excellent President, if elected. However, I'm at a loss in understanding why he voted for the Trump tax cut (Republican tax cut, that is). When McCain, Collins and Flake could have had one of the most consequential votes of their careers, they took the party path. We need those trillion plus dollars desperately for infrastructure, and these departing senators failed the country when it couldn't have harmed their careers, only their "legacies". This legacy business is a double edged sword that I've always thought dubious at best, when it comes to the well being of the country. We may be paying the price for McCains last critical vote for a long time.
5
McCain comes late to stand against Republican immorality and Trump in particular and it seems to me that his current posture is more self-serving than serving the interests of those that would have benefited in years past when McCain could have made a difference.
Do we deserve McCain? Not really but not in the sense intended by Gail Collins and Bret Stephens.
Rest easy John, we Democrats will eventually clean up this mess.
2
Of course the truth is most Americans don't deserve America. America - the idea which matters above all - belongs to those currently beneath and beyond.
1
McCain has had a life of great public service, and one big mistake. I truly think he might have won in 2008 had he picked anyone, almost, other than Palin. Right up until then he was a strong contender - but then it was 'what can he be thinking' combined with 'I can't have her one heartbeat away' and there went my vote... and millions of others. The thing is, he and Russ Feingold were 100% right about money and politics. We've proven it since - we have The Best Government Money Can Buy - and Trump is proud of it! Until we get all the non-public money, and most of the money overall, out of politics our elections will be more about picking who is going to sell us out the least. And we all lost, in the last election. The country will lost a true patriot, and a real hero when McCain is gone.
3
I do think we deserve John McCain, at least his integrity and commitment to America. While I don't share his politics, I'm ready to leave that aside and be thankful for his integrity.
We certainly don't deserve the confederacy of dunces or the basket of deplorables currently in power. They're killing America.
Vote in 2018 and 2020. Quite literally, the fate of the world depends on it.
5
I'm quite fond of John McCain, and have been for some years; I'm also part of the LGBTQ community, and grew up in a family that relied on social programs to make ends meet. So I'm used to other people on the left reacting to my fondness for McCain with the bouquet of dismay, scorn, and condescension on display in these comments.
Here's the thing: our government, and the principles we hold dear as Americans, require constant "checks and balances." The goal should never be total domination of all three branches by a single party, liberal or otherwise– the dissenting views are necessary, and they're never going away. The issues will change, but divisions will always exist.
John McCain is the kind of "enemy" you can respect. No one mistakes him for a fellow liberal. But look at all the other old white Republicans in office, then look at this one. He at least has some value system that he genuinely believes in. He voluntarily went to war, sustained permanent disabilities from his time as a POW, and went into politics when he finally made it home. He's literally devoted his life to his country. That's respectable. You can see that he holds himself to a higher standard in his willingness to criticize his own party, denounce the Tea Party obstructionist movement, spearhead the congressional Russia probe, and vote against the ACA repeal.
I wouldn't vote for him, but I'd take him over Ted Cruz, or Paul Ryan, or any of the insidious toadies in the current cabinet every single day.
6
We don't deserve the trumps but somehow we got them.
John McCain's voice will be missed from the Senate Chamber.
I wouldn't want Trump at my funeral either Mr. McCain, your a hero in my eyes for your service and sacrifice to our country.
And it's always been great in my eyes, until now.
Not sure what Bret dislikes about Trump: a few lies, assaults on women, the corrupt use of his office to further his businesses. Minor and regrettable transgressions. But Trump is absolutely in agreement with Bret's core values: upward wealth redistribution and the application of American military power in the pursuit thereof.
2
Just as I liked the Bob Dole running in 1988 but not he one running in 1996, I liked the John McCain running in 2000 but not the one in 2008, though in 2008, he still had more integrity about him than the standard party (when a woman at a McCain appearance made a remark about Obama intended as personally negative, McCain responded that Obama was a good family man, something the RNC machine would never have done; he also raised that Obama had voted against a 'troops' bill, but seemed uncomfortable becase he knew that he had voted against a different version of the same bill, something Obama brought up and stated "John, we all support the troops"). He has often disappointed me since 2008, not by being conservative but by joining in the utter nonsense the GOP has served up since 2008, and in doing so, helped Trump get elected.
3
I really appreciate these dialogues, because I get a strong sense of who Bret is, and then when I read his solo columns (which I largely disagree with), my perspective widens. I'm able to take in a conservative viewpoint because it's delivered with sincerity, logic, and without the sense it's all about grinding axes. I thought his recent column on Iran was solid, even though I can't quite get on board fully with his perspective. I came away with at least a sense that there can be a reason other than Trump's petulance for trashing the treaty.
1
While we're lionizing John McCain let's not forget to add that he...
- Voted for the ridiculous gop tax bill that is ballooning the deficit and giving away millions to the rich and corporations.
- Voted against Martin Luther King Day.
- Gave us the highly unqualified Sarah Palin which contributed greatly to the dumbing down of political discourse.
- Was part of the Keating 5 (look it up).
9
We should quit lionizing career politicians, because they by definition only do what's right for the country if it's also right for themselves. (Call me cynical.) That is not a form of public service. That is a compromise between public service and private gain.
McCain has been in office for nearly 30 years, longer than I've been alive. Yeah, he cast the crucial vote that decided the fate of the ACA, and he's been particularly outspoken about President Trump, for which New York Times readers generally commend him. But he's also got a brain tumor, and he knows without a doubt this is his last term as a senator, so he can do whatever he wants—sky's the limit!—without worrying about his political future.
Wouldn't it be great if every senator and representative acted like that? This is precisely the behavior you would expect from anyone for whom political calculus is completely unnecessary, because they're not eligible for reelection in the first place.
Here's what I advocate: eight years maximum as president, ten years in the House, twelve in the Senate. Get in, serve your country for a term or two, and get out. Endorse someone who roughly shares your values. Retire from politics, and live a quiet life in private (unlike a certain former president who lined up his pockets through speaking fees because he's still intimately connected to those in power.)
3
I agree, we don't deserve John McCain.
We don't deserve a man who would pick a ninny like Sarah Palin to be his party's nominee for Vice President of the United States.
We don't deserve a man who in the Senate consistently support's the GOP's Dickensian agenda of afflicting the afflicted while comforting the comfortable.
We don't deserve a man who supported George Bush's invasion of Iraq.
We don't deserve a man who pandered to the worst right wing elements in his home state in order to win just one more term in the Senate
We don't deserve a man who did not oppose a fiend like Trump until after the fiend became President of the U.S., and then only after that man found out that he was dying of cancer.
No one deserves to be subjected to a man like that. I know I don't.
11
Ms. Collins has a distorted view of leaks. Many leaks are of classified information or information that while not classified could be an important jigsaw puzzle piece for an enemy.
Until you are obliged to handle classified documents in the appropriate manner, uninformed statements like that of Ms. Collins NEED TO BE REPUDIATED.
1
Documents that are not classified are by definition not forbidden to the public.
3
Jimmy Carter used a cutting edge medical treatment that worked for him with his battle brain cancer. I wonder whether the treatment is appropriate for McCain. I suppose it has been considered....Just wondering though. It is great that he has healthcare, especially in view of his deciding vote on the Affordable Care act!
1
John McCain reminds me a little of Cicero.
A pillar of iron, surrounded by a sea of the menial and venal.
Far too many past tense verbs for me...
Maybe in some far off dream - America will vote this vile bunch out of Washington, the White House and every gerrymandered section of every state in America.
Then again - looking at the suits and greedy Republicans on the train in the morning...something does smell on the Metra trains...it's the GOP boys...
2
I would posit that we shouldn’t talk about what we deserve, but rather we should demand the truth. The real McCain is to be preferable to the mythical one. The same could also be said of JFK. The real JFK, ugly as this might be, is to be preferred to the mythical one.
McCain will no doubt be regarded as a Hero by historians; Trump will go down as a Cuss Word.
2
Consider Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio for 2020. He's the real deal.
4
McCain to Trump: you may attend my funeral... over my dead body.
Bob Dylan once said, "He not busy being born is busy dying."
Actually, McCain is still busy being born. Note his continuing opposition to "enhanced interrogation."
Trump, on the other hand, is busy with neither.
That is because he is already spiritually dead, a moral zombie, yet he continues to stalk the hustings.
2
"His best public moment, as far as I’m concerned, is when he publicly corrected a woman in the heat of the 2008 campaign who called Barack Obama 'an Arab.' " This was the same campaign that brought us Sarah Palin, less qualified than Dan Quayle, leading directly to the travesty that is Trump. John McCain has been a maverick, not a leader. Perhaps without McCain/Feingold there would have been no Citizens United. Regardless, he's getting more credit and press than I think he deserves. (Same for Jeff Flake whose voting record is far more telling than his public statements.)
3
In the past few days I have read NYT op-eds with titles like "John McCain Battles Donald Trump With His Dying Breaths ... "As He Lay Dying" and now this opinion. It is sad and offensive to me that your newspaper has published articles like these when a person is still living and breathing on this planet. To add to the indignity of the op-eds, they have opened up the floodgates of public opinion from people who never even knew the man. The thousands of comments seem to afford the readers the right to praise, criticize, caste political and personal judgement, analyze his past, his politics and his legacy. Why have the readers decided that they have the right to judge a man just because he has been part of our national conversation for years? And why do so many feel the need to do so while Senator McCain is still with us? In a way, I find it macabre. Could the New York Times not wait to write posthumously about this man's life?
I end on a personal note. I lost my best friend to the same brain cancer as Senator McCain. It is incomprehensible that I, her family and friends would have written about her in the past tense while she was still with us whether it be on Facebook, a blog or a newspaper announcement of her impending death. Has the New York Times discovered a new concept of a "pre-eulogy" where the commentators get to add their unabashed public participation in writing it? How very insensitive, especially knowing that the Senator and his family may read those words.
4
I remember a holiday performance (July 4th?) at the Capitol or White House, at which BB King played. The obviously callow and shallow emcee said as BB King walked offstage,
"There goes history!"
I truly agree with you, Helen. The White House aide pitched a low ball. These columnists swang at it. Sadly, it's not an isolated example of ageism at the NYTimes.
T
2
Nope.
McCain was Hitler to the leftists elites in the media when he was a Republican who had a chance at being elected president. Now that his function for you is to embarrass President Trump, he's suddenly Mr. Wonderful?
3
John McCain was a life well lived. I just wonder if he ever had any regrets for accepting she who shall not be named as a running mate. Perhaps his biggest political blunder of his life. As to Trump and the trumpettes savaging McCain, I can only hope that karma truly exists and Trump gets the same disparagement later in life.
“Gail: If we’re going to argue, you have to at least regard yourself as a Republican in exile. What would it take to get you back?”
“Bret: Trump out of office. Sincere Republican penance for electing this lout as our president and debasing our collective moral currency. ...”
“Gail: Since some of the things you like are the things I hate most ... we’ll be able to argue ...”
That’s interesting and clarifying for me. I’ve voted R for federal office at most twice since, by my lights, Reagan married the Southern Strategy with the Wall Street Journal editorial page.
I can’t be a D. Ds drive me nuts when they don’t do their job and defend food stamps or Obamacare or a progressive income tax against unfair or ill-considered attacks. I can’t abide substituting PC and identity politics for our common humanity and a sense of when we should and shouldn’t accomplish things in the public sector.
Perhaps if the Rs would give up on tactics like the Southern Strategy then Bret and I could happily disagree as Rs about the details on social security, Medicare, Obamacare, and the national unity required for military action.
3
Though I’m no John McCain fan, I think if McCain or anyone not aligned with sexist, racist, homophobic or a practitioner of severely childish comments and/or behavior has little reason being in the Republican Party. The GOP simply is without a doubt the silliest and most hypocritical thing going on these days. It might be possible to survive one term of the status quo, but certainly not two. The Republican Party would collectively sell their souls if a nice tax cut could be had for themselves.
70
How do you know they haven't already been bribed, as apparently Trump now has by Xi (direct investments of DJ on behalf of Dad in Indonesia and ambitions to open 30 Trump hotel properties in China) for those many millions of spy phones?
4
Please stop. Read your history books.
This was a pilot who carelessly wrecked more than 1 US warplane prior to landing in the Hanoi
Lake. Yes, he suffered at the hands of the North Vietnamese, but how many innocent Vietnamese did he kill with his bombs?
Yes, he said he wouldn’t leave the Hanoi Hilton until his comrades were freed with him. But he came home, got elected to Congress and quickly became involved in Savings and Loan scandal that saw some of his colleagues imprisoned, while he enriched himself with real people’s money.
Yes, he voted against the pseudo Republican Health Care Bill, but he remained silent when George W Bush invaded Iraq and attempted to privatize Social Security. Yes, he is a Republican who believed in and acted on the distribution of wealth away from the poor and working class to the nation’s most wealthy. Please let’s get back to reality.
12
Please stop! McCain was not that great really. He was a wishy-washy maverick who swayed with the tides of fortune. He selected Sarah Palin as his VP candidate. He has supported much of Trump's disasters, including and especially the "tax fraud" of 2018, which he could have stopped in its tracks. He could have stopped the Trump bulldozer of 2016 but he didn't.
He did not insist on maintaining and developing improved campaign finance laws; he did not insist on assault weapons bans that would be permanent. He did not insist on protections for the VA that strengthened the VA and got it out of politics; he didn't come out for the protection of social security, medicare and medicaid when he had the voice to do so. Instead, he blustered and bumbled. Oh yes, he allowed Mitch McConnell to bludgeon Barack Obama and said nothing during the fraud of 2016 when Merrick Garland should have been appointed to the Supreme Court. Where was the great MAVERICK then?
Where was McCain during the tumble-down to desperation we face now in the USA? He is as much responsible for this Trumpian madness as any in his so-called "party".
Sorry he has brain cancer but he has the best health insurance the tax payers can provide to him. He did nothing to make sure that all Americans have the same health protections as he has. Compared To What I ask do we measure his supposed greatness? Trump, sure just about anyone is great compared to that swamp dweller.
15
Look I know you all are desperate for the glory days of bipartisanship but does this convince anybody? I can’t but suspect that a day is coming when the Times will be feting a junior Republican congressmen for not endorsing the ritual sacrifice of puppies...
5
I'll quote Glenn Greenwald who sums it up better than I could, "John McCain has spent the last 60 years advocating, cheering for and glorifying the most monstrous and murderous wars on the planet, while demanding many others that never happened. He has enormous amounts of blood on his hands. That he's dying of brain cancer doesn't change this"
9
Do "we" deserve John McCain? Yes.
What is not discussed in pieces like this says a lot about my answer. John McCain was shot down and tortured. That torture was something that should never happen.
But how did McCain come to be shot down? I've heard the number of missions he flew, dropping bombs on people. Twenty-three, give or take a few, does that sound right. For the younger readers who don't know much history, those missions were overwhelmingly dropping bombs on civilians. That is a well-documented fact, by which I mean it was part of the US's strategy. By the time McCain was shot down (October, 1967) he had to have known about a growing anti-war movement that was telling the truth about what the US was doing, and that same movement was full of people who were going to jail to oppose what McCain was doing. After all, Martin Luther King's Riverside Church speech was on April 4, 1967, one year to the day before King was murdered.
So, when the NY Times begins peddling this McCain myth, recall the words of George Carlin: when you hear the word bi-partisan, you know a really big deception is afoot.
5
Sen. John McCain does not fit into the description of today's politicians!
The American Revolutionaries who signed the Declaration of Independence on July 4, 1776 and then created this great nation were political activists committing criminal acts of high treason against the British Empire.
Those men committed their fortunes and their lives to the creation of the USA.
They would have all been hanged by the English Government for Treason if the American Revolution military forces had failed.
Today, politicians are only in the game for their own personal financial gain with perks, bribes and cash in paper sacks for their congressional votes and for no-bid PAY TO PLAY contracts paid from the taxpayer’s Public Treasury awarded to their political campaign contributors!
Today, only those politicians that accept sufficient campaign contributions or contributions to that politician’s foundation in return for political favors and “PAY TO PLAY” no-bid contract awards from the public treasury can collect enough campaign money in order to buy enough TV advertising can get themselves elected to public office.
1
Ask yourself one simple question : Who would you rather have as President, McCain OR Trump ??? For me, no contest. A flawed War Hero, or a Reality Show Fool. Seriously. Case closed.
5
In an act of extraordinary altruism, John McCain offered to donate one (or both) of his kidneys to Melania, just in case her prognosis was not as positive as the main stream media
portrayed. His rationale - "he's dying anyway".
I admire McCain and I wish him well. His story really is a Shakespearean tragedy. He was so close to achieving his dream but when he had a choice, he chose poorly by picking lunatic fringe Palin as a running mate. Had he chosen another, I would have voted for him as would have a number of people I know.
I hope his end is peaceful & serene. Ours, with Trump in the seat of power, won't be.
59
His choice was Joe Lieberman. Four time drat dodger. Marched all over New Haven opposing the draft and the Viet Nam war. But re-invented himself as a hawk when he got to Washington. I could never figure out McCain on that one.
3
Perhaps he understands that there were good people on both sides of the issue and more immediately, that more than 39 years had passed and oeople evolve.
AND, we do not deserve Gina Haspel. A torturer should not be promoted to "Chief Torturer". Ask any GI, current or past, how this would affect treatment of American POWs, past and future. Ugh! Shame on us!
5
McCain comes from a war fighting family. He was/is a gung - ho war Republican . Trump said something stupid about him but it doesn’t make him a man for peace; nor does he differ with American exceptionalism , which is killing the world .
5
Perhaps John McCain does not deserve us.
1
I knew when I heard him sing "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" that this was not my sort of Republican and that I would not vote for him. He was evil in my view.
7
It was an ill advised joke.
1
More like John McCain doesn’t deserve you, by which I mean the way our media industrial complex has treated him since 2008. He’s your favorite person now, but that didn’t count for much when you were calling him racist, sexist, and such. I didn’t vote for him, but you had nothing to do with it.
As far as the comment about him leaked from the WH, it was vile and inappropriate. It was also none of our business, as it was said in private. The person who leaked it did not do so out of noble principles, but simply to cause embarrassment, even if it meant causing pain to the McCain family. As I understand it, the staffer called his daughter to apologize, and that should be the end of it insofar as we are concerned.
But let me give you something else to talk about: as much as I hope he recovers and enjoys many productive years ahead, why is McCain still a senator? Our system was not designed to work like this. I don’t understand why he ran again at age 79, and if he resigned now, the AZ governor would let him hand pick his replacement. He hasn’t been able to leave the house for a year and should step down.
There’s an irony that so many call Trump a wannabe dictator and wanted to remove him for incapacity via the 25th amendment. Because right now, an elderly military figure who refuses to relinquish power despite planning his funeral in public is their new hero.
1
Love or hate McCain : Who would YOU rather have as President, Him or Trump ??? Case closed. Seriously.
I posit we do not deserve the McCain we have, but rather the mythical McCain that most remember fondly.
37
As an authentic conservative and a citizen of Arizona, I am well aware of the Progressive fondness for John McCain and the very generous press he has always received from the institutional media. During the course of his career, he could almost always be counted upon to impede and frustrate conservative policies, initiatives and opportunities. Even his Presidential run, doomed to failure from the very start, was aided by the media at every turn and gave Obama an easily beatable opponent in 2008.
McCain deserves respect for his service in the military and in the Senate, as well as sympathy for his failing health. But we Arizonans remember him as a man who took advantage of the ossified nature of the Arizona Republican Party, promised the voters conservatism in his campaigns, and then promptly courted progressive and media favor as soon as he was safely back in Washington. He loved the adoration of the press gaggle more than anything in life.
The media will lionize him as the conservative always willing to admit that conservatism is wrong. That is progressive truth and he was one of your best double agents.
If he were a "double agent" for progressives, he never would have inflicted Sarah Palin on us. The fact is, McCain doesn't hold up as a staunch conservative or liberal or moderate. He's out for himself; a self-important, deeply pompous man who loves power and in service of it was more than willing to endanger the country by elevating Sarah Palin to a position where she might have ascended to the presidency. You think he was a faux conservative; the evidence is that he's a faux patriot.
2
We are at an epoch that marks the death of decency in public life!
A crass joke about a man who wore the uniform and served our country goes uncondemned.
A crass joke about a man who dedicated his entire life to public service goes without dissent from his own party.
And when we mock a dying man regardless of stature we mark the demise of all decency.
2
"We", the common citizens of America, surely have never deserved this alleged war hero whose only claim to fame is that he got shot down and sat in prison for a few years. Who along with most of our political class bought off by our greedy for slave labor business owner nobility, has repeatedly committed treason by denying the sovereignty rights of citizens to stop the invasion of our nation by foreigners, dictated high immigration rates that the majority never asked for or agreed to, and for decades willfully sabotaged the enforcement of our immigration laws.
"oleaginous" Cool! Learned a new word that perfectly describes Senator Mike Lee!
1
gimme a break. here are five words that bracket the career of a supposed "maverick" who in fact served the most reactionary forces in US politics:
Iraq war
Ryan tax cuts
4
"I think we have to admit that if Barack Obama had gotten this far with North Korea, we’d be dancing in the streets."
Just how far have we gotten? The NKs shut down a nuclear test site that had already been rendered useless by cave-ins, and it remains to be seen what the Trump-Kim summit will accomplish. Several times in previous years, the NKs have promised to shut down their nuclear program only to renege. Will this time be any different? Will Trump get the guarantees he's after?
Obama could have offered to meet with Kim (any Kim; the Kims were always hungry to prove their status), but you know the right would have pilloried Obama for even offering to meet with that lunatic, murderer, etc. etc.
2
In all this glowing light now surrounding Senator McCain, let's not forget that he has really only "seen the light" in these past months when it became clear he was reaching the end of his life and had nothing to lose politically.
AND...he will always be blamed for the birthing of the completely unhinged, loony Right by introducing Sarah Palin to the stage. She held the door open to all the insanity we are now living every day. The good he is sort of doing now doesn't begin to balance out that terrible sin, even if he has admitted it was a mistake.
4
Media built up McCain the 'Maverick'.
He really thought they liked him.
Of course when he got close in 2008 they whipped out some fake news about him having an extra-marital affair.
Then he compounded it by not vetting Palin and giving Obama a pass on Rev. Wright.
I'd say Trump learned much from that election.
1
Yeah, I don't think we deserve McCain either. Not someone who, having experienced a futile and murderous war of choice abroad in the worst possible way, decided to support the 21st Century version of it in Iraq and elsewhere, achieving little or nothing but destruction and destabilization, all of which empowered radicals or our enemies. At a cost of trillions, borne by the US taxpayers, struggling with debt, stagnant wages, unaffordable medical bills and abusive corporate predators, all enabled by his party and their willing subservience to monied interests.
We all deserved better. Much better.
6
Sorry. I'm not ready to lionize John McCain just yet, but thanks for the conversation, even though it's not really telling me something I don't already know.
Namely, that Donald Trump must GO! -- and Republicans are due for some heavy soul-searching after what they're doing to the country.
But back to Sen. McCain. Granted he stood up to Mr. Trump several times during the course of the presidential campaign, and he even stiffed Paul Ryan by voting against against repealing Obamacare... but he also backed down as not to alienate his chances for re-election, or be thrown out of the G.O.P. fold.
And let's also not forget McCain was the one to foist Sarah Palin and her brood onto the political world stage, something we've yet to live down.
But honestly, at the moment we've got lots of other things to worry about; like the demise of the Iran Nuclear Deal, Israel taking Iran head-on Syria, and a U.S. president intent on bringing about a full-scale nuclear war.
And it's hard to be optimisitc about that.
46
I'm not a fan of John McCain's politics generally but I believe he's honorable in his pursuits. And certainly war hero describes him and that he appears to have peace within is all a person can ask.
And that I believe is why Donald Trump hates him so much. Sure, he was the final vote stopping health care failure but long before that he denigrated his service. A man who had five deferments, the last for a bone spur - is that even a thing for other than fake deferments? - cannot stand that Mr. McCain is revered in circles Mr. Trump is scoffed.
Donald Trump has had more failures than successes; his financials are likely a sham or he'd be waving those tax returns at every stop for bragging rights.
John McCain is the real deal. Whether one is politically aligned or not he is top of the line as a patriot. Donald Trump is the opposite, a total fraud who has learned, not the art of the deal but how to scam and sell himself to the gullible.
63
A great senator remembered as great is only such as long as they are remembered. Margaret Chase Smith?
See what I mean?
Anyone who does only what they know how to do because that's all they know how to do maybe is great, but also selfish. Just being a good person should really be all that matters.
2
Throwing modern Iranians to the mullahs, while encouraging them to go militaristic and develop the bomb isn't smart. Encouraging Israel's worst genocidal tendencies as they overwhelm the people they oppress, who are at the end of their tether and not above violence, isn't smart.
While Gail and Bret skim this subject oh-so-lightly, it's not a light matter to pal around with Bolton. McCain once said: "bomb bomb bomb Iran". We have put fuel on the fire of middle east conflagration too often (remember Mossadegh, while Bush the Elder's wisdom in pulling back was "trumped" by his "go out and shop" "mission accomplished" son.
Perhaps the danger of global warming/climate change, which Bret skips over lightly as something we can deal with later (despite mounting evidence) will be Trumped by WWIII. Either way, civilization is in for a dodgy time, and Bret's "solutions" are barely better than Trump's.
McCain also helped pass the reverse Robin Hood tax cuts, stimulating an overheated economy for short-term gain. We will inevitably have a crash that beggars the one in 2007-08, with no Obama to come in and fix it (like Reagan's mess that started in 1988 and took Clinton to fix).
Republicans cut taxes and spend, and Democrats do the hard thankless slog of fixing it, just in time for the next Republican to take credit.
As for Kim Jong Un, he's playing Trump like fiddle. Our rivals have figured out that inflating Trump is their best way to make us small, mean, and last.
What a mess!
5
McCain also tops the list on NRA donations.
4
I thought it was a big political moment when he voted for the tax cuts for the rich. Very disappointing! But I do agree that in many ways he has some semblance of conscience which is nowhere to be fin the Republican Party.
1
Maybe we didn't deserve Sarah Palin, but McCain was taking money and advice from the ridiculous right. True, it's rare for a U.S. Senator to be recognizably human and empathetic on occasion, but that doesn't make him an idol, a saint, or any kind of hero other than the sort recognized by military medals alone.
2
Sure, sure he is a great guy etc - however the hall mark of a great leader is that he finds and prepares his replacement - at 81, if I was so lucky as to be working, would my employer have kept me if I had such a serious illness and would I have wanted to stay in the job with half my cognition and no drive? We are all humans - no one is indispensable - not even our make belief gods - so no he is not great and he needs to retire (should have happened a long time ago btw).
2
The disingenuous as usual Bret Stephens says he no longer considers himself a Republican.
That's after being a longtime member of the party that has fought against every progressive attempt to increase civil rights for more Americans, the party whose policies brought Donald Trump to the presidency.
And the party whose policies Stephens still supports in his columns, while denying his membership in it.
John McCain? McCain was shot down, and rightly so, after raining bombs down on men, women, and children, in America's criminal, imperialist war in Vietnam. Killing children at a distance, and for an onerous purpose, is not my definition of a hero.
Nor, except for one or two "maverick" moves, has McCain done ought but vote for every bad Republican bill since he entered politics.
Dying doesn't make someone deserve more sympathy. One is judged on how one conducts one's life, not on the circumstances of the involuntary death we all face.
2
McCain was the last of the true gentleman Senators who still wanted to "do the right thing." His failing moment was picking Palin as his running mate. Luckily he has far more winning moments than losing. He will be missed.
42
Picking Palin was the cap, the failing moment, to me was when he was "persuaded" by the Bush W team to back signing off on renditions. Until that moment I held him up as an example of a "good" politician, able to work with others without selling his soul. That day he sold his soul, and earned Palin
4
John McCain is an extremely rare person in the US Congress, a person of honor, courage, a genuine patriot and a Republican. Although Sen.McCain never left his party, his party not only left him, except for its brand name, that party no longer exists. It is well beyond “conservative” or “ultra conservative” and as the party leadership has decided that what’s good for Donald Trump is good for America it has abandoned its oath, the rule of law and the democratic system. Our oligarchy (another word for fascism) with the “election” of DJT, who believes that American Nazis can be fine people, is at war with the Constitution and the rule of law and separation of powers. Government is becoming the enemy of the people.
There are 51 Republican Senators and if two or three had the courage and patriotism to say that the Republican party no longer represents the interests of the nation, their oaths of office require that and until it does, for now, they shall become Independents, and shall caucus with the Democrats until their party is de-Trumpified and puts nation over party.
Of course this is obsurd, a pipe dream, it will never happen. The reason is that this requires the rare Senators who possesses honor, courage, persons who are genuine patriots and such a Senator is dying, so the party does not have to pay any attention to him.
. I wonder how Donald Healspur would have done under torture if were not a draft-dodger and was captured. Would he consider himself a loser?
I have to take issue with your characterization of McCain as a genuine patriot. How much regard for the country did he show when he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate? And how much integrity has he shown by never apologizing for his choice?
Hagiography is an amazing thing to witness.
3
Palin on McCain's ticket was the appetizer for Trump's victory.
1
There is nothing special about John McCain except that he was born rich. That's more than enough for you paid sycophants, who expect the proles to be grateful for "shreds of decency." No thanks, we demand justice, and you are not on our side.
2
Trump and McCain. Oy.
I am so viscerally anti-Trump there is a visible cloud of despair around me like Pig-Pen in the old Charlie Brown comics. I force myself to watch Fox News now and then, trying to be open minded and to learn about other perspectives. The last time I subjected myself to Fox and Friends they were lambasting the New York Times for not covering something they apparently thought had just happened. Meanwhile, it had happened two days before, and the Times had covered it thoroughly, and I had read all about it. I began screaming at the television, words like morons, idiots, sycophants, etc. It wasn't pretty. I did hear, though, that the idiot on the Fox Business channel who horrifyingly mocked McCain's stand on CIA torture was dismissed as a contributor. There's that, at least. There apparently still is a last vestige of respect and decency for an American Hero over there.
As for McCain, I have rarely agreed with him politically. However, he was captured and tortured for you and for me. Whatever the reason for US involvement in that war, however sound the institutional logic, we sent him there. He paid dearly for it, and lived with pain the rest of his life. Few politicians have such lengthy careers without becoming "players" now and then, so occasionally he was out of bounds. But he impressed me with his overall decency and character, especially when he defended Obama against that birther in the crowd. His courage and his save of the ACA will be his legacy.
1
He was not captured and tortured for you and me. The Vietnam War was not fought for ordinary Americans, but for the interests of the US ruling class.
He was captured an tortured for bombing and murdering innocent civilians in a war that should never have been fought.
We didn't send him there. He graduated from Annapolis and was a career military pilot.
He continued to support that horrible war and then voted for more war after 9/11.
Not my idea of a decent man, much less a hero.
1
Two words sum up McCain's political career and prove that he, like most politicians would sell his/her mother to stay in office:
Sarah Palin.
John single-handedly infected the American people (already weak in the head) with the "stupid" virus that we are still suffering from today!
Way to go John!
5
This is exactly right. Choosing Sarah Palin as his running made was a colossal failure of character and an act of stunning recklessness -- an action that that negates McCain's other accomplishments.
2
We shouldn't talk about McCain without pointing out that this former POW has continued to support the party of torture, Nazis and religious intolerance.
I still can't fully understand why he's still with them but I'll stay off the hate. I'd just love to sit down with him and let him explain why he did it.
Well, we didn't deserve Barack Obama either, or more to the point, he didn't deserve us. Democracy isn't failing us; we are failing democracy. Democracy has to be earned and we are too cheap to pony up the small bucks to avoid paying the far bigger price of our collective stupidity. We are so stupid that we elect one of our own to lead us.
2
John McCain -- a truly decent man caught in an indecent America....put on another Stormy Daniels video will you.
Who exactly is "we"?
I appreciate Senator McCain. I voted for him in the GOP primary in 2000. But I think I deserve better, more honest, more constructive politicians.
A few days ago, there was an opinion piece entitled "Liberals, You Are Not as Smart as You Think You Are".
Dear Editors, please be careful of indulging in overly broad stereotypes and generalizations. Be specific. Who doesn't deserve McCain? All Americans?? Maybe the liars in Washington.
2
It wasn't long ago that NYT deserved John McCain, but really didn't know it. Politics is like a flopping fish, and NYT is yesterday's fish wrapping. Today, one of NYT's best fishmongers, none other than Dog In The Belfy Collins, delivers her mea cupa and finds new sunlight for the next administration, whichever fish that is. McCain could have been our leader, but his campaign was sunk by guess who? Why those who still don't deserve him. There is not optimism anywhere, Brett. And that includes Gail as the repository.
Ironic, isn't it, that McCain's famous, or infamous, "Straight Talk Express" depending on your viewpoint, which he nicknamed in his presidential campaign against W. in 1980 had to be seen against a background of financial chicanery--Keating banking scandal in 1980's which cost investors billions, Senator's dubious reputation as a favorite of his North Korean captors while at Hanoi Hilton--they called him "le prince,"and no other veterans, detainees came to his defense--his bullying of a poor woman who raised a question about O's background, and finally his role as a Navy flier dropping napalm and Agent ORANGE--my assumption, on helpless VIETNAMESE during the VN war. US veterans exposed to Agent Orange also suffered after effects. So what makes McCain a hero?He humiliated his present wife in public and she financed his campaigns.Just because 1 is dying does not automatically elevate 1 to sainthood!Where have your critical thinking skills gone, Ms. Collins and Mr. Stephens?Read "Premieres Meditations" of Rene Descartes--"COGITO ERGO SUM-- father of logical analysis and follow his lead in your own evaluations of public figures, Article is "facile"in worst possible sense!Yet you r both fine writers otherwise and deserve your wide reader appeal!
2
I don't agree 'we' have changed. Americans, in general, are dirt ignorant. These dirt ignorant people elected Trump. McCain ain't no Mother Theresa, America owes him, but he ain't nuttin' special at all.
The only hope I can see is the market going up. Everything else is backwards and in reverse - this time, I'm out when the walls cave in!
How do you explain McCain's Obama years? The reactionary McCain? The reliable negative vote McCain? Anger? Sour grapes? Revenge? Racism?
4
John McCain never met a country he didn't want to bomb.
4
Senator McCain is not the Saint being presented here.
Look at his voting record and remember whom he appointed to be his running mate.
I wish him good health, but he was one of the Keating Five. He also voted to steal the Supreme Court seat occupied by Neil Gorsuch.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/07/us/politics/gorsuch-confi...
3
No maybe's about it...
John McCain doesn't deserve us.
2
I disagree with him on many issues...but the class, the integrity and the courage are all part of his persona and his story.
His stand against torture is also a striking.
Even though he lost to BO, I would not mind if he was running the country right now.
His competence and his temperament about the issues and the way he respects people.
He is made even bigger by what is going on in the White House.
Two words: Sarah Palin.
2
I have always admired John McCain. But the Senator was savaged by liberals when he campaigned for President. He spoke out against people calling Obama an 'Arab' and described him as a "good family man." Obama never responded in kind.
Politics is mean. And the media is a major culprit in it. The NYT never seemed to criticize his highness Obama, yet Republicans are all evil. Guess what... I believe in many things the democrats want and many things the republicans want. But I do not believe in extremism. The NYT and the left have no problem with extremists as long as they lean left (ie Bernie), but those people are just as dangerous as the tea partiers.
I wish we had more McCains and less Hillarys.
1
Well, it says a lot that you consider Bernie Sanders' New Deal policies to be "extremist" and "dangerous."
McCain was actually dangerous, bombing civilians in one illegal war and supporting the waging of two more illegal wars.
1
My shrink told me that when you first meet someone and when you say your final goodbye, you tend to exaggerate their virtues and overlook their flaws, temporarily, at least.
We are, I think, doing that here. "Parting is all we know of heaven, and all we need of hell" (Emily Dickinson).
Without cause, people soon forget and forgive past shortcomings. Which I find puzzling and frustrating when even political junkies are willing to praise George W. and even Tricky Dick.
John McCain was no Barack Obama: As a senator, he had bad judgment, a violent temperament, and supported the 99% consistently. War hero, yes; a great statesman, no.
5
What we don't deserve is Trump. The subtext for this rancid president is "How to undo seven decades of global and national progress in four short years." It's not great to look back on your own six and a half decades on earth to realize that after Trump is gone, we will have been effectively running in place -- and then that only if we're lucky.
4
I lived in Arizona for most of the period 1985-2004. During that time I voted repeatedly for Senator McCain even though he is not a member of my political party. I did this even though McCain would, not uncommonly, vote in a way that irritated me.
The reason I backed Mr. McCain in 1986, 1992, 1998, and 2004 was that he had clear and compelling principles and he loves his country and he was and is reasonable on most issues. I did not always agree with him, that's for sure, but I felt that he genuinely cared about bigger things than the polls and the "base."
The country will miss him. Arizona will miss him. The Senate will miss him. I hope only that some others in Washington take note of his example and try, however haltingly, to learn some things from it. John McCain is not a perfect man, but he is a good man. He is a politician, and sometimes he is a little bit craven, but on balance he sticks to his principles and keeps an eye on the national interest. That is worth admiring.
2
I have lived in Arizona since 1995 and you couldn't pay me enough to vote for McCain. Not all Arizonans will miss him. Some of us remember his shameful choice of running mate, Sarah Palin. He may be a decent, good guy but his politics, quite frankly, are detestable.
3
Sorry this conversation didn't deliver what the headline promised: focus on John McCain. I believe that we DO deserve Senator McCain. The worse our political behavior gets, the more we deserve him. We always need (read "deserve") the voice of integrity to remind us when we've lost it. As a life-long Democrat, I've always admired Senator McCain. (Not so much candidate McCain and the Palin fiasco.) He is a true American hero (from Vietnam to campaign finance reform). I wish him and his family every possible good in their journey.
McCain is a very good man and would have made a very good president, probably. But he was still a member in good standing of the Party of No! In October 2016, he made the following pronouncement during a speech:
"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up."
6
I'm shocked that Hannity and his HUD holdings were not at the top of your list of topics to discuss the current and future eigenvectors, (sorry for my engineering background) for our national conservative movement and the Republican Party.
I respect McCain, but to my mind he could have done more to salvage his party and his nation from the orange blight!
Speaking about that fellow and his immigration policies: He's morally wrong, but perhaps financially correct. He needs to hire someone like Stephens to Tweet to the public while he's doing, (cough cough) intense analysis of other issues.
IMHO Platitudes and Psychological Displacement, not facts and objective analysis have captured the attention of the American public. No matter who we elect, ain't nothin gonna change until we change the way we consider the issues, and express our thoughts.
3
A very well-reasoned and civil debate. Thank you. However...
The fact that formerly die-hard liberals and Democrats now speak wistfully of John McCain (who chose Sarah Palin as his running mate) or are coming to regard George W. Bush (who invaded the wrong country) as a revered statesman, reflects just how much the political spectrum in general has shifted to the right.
...and continues to shift...
I used to believe that "moderates" were a large bulk of the electorate who served as a sort of anchor that kept the nation from inadvertently drifting too far toward one extreme or the other. I now see that belief was naive. That which is "center" or "moderate" is only relative between two perceived poles. But if the entire spectrum has shifted, then the nation will gradually find itself endorsing, if not ratifying, one extreme or another.
Where are the Republicans now, from whom we expect some sort of atonement? There are increasingly only Trump supporters, wrapping themselves up in the American flag. Those outside of that group have their patriotism impugned.
So your debate is well-written and well-reasoned. But I fear such dialogue is becoming antiquated. Save it, and look at it again a year or so from now. If you've debated before, review a few from a few years ago. I'd be curious if the comparison is consistent with my theory.
3
People arguing respectfully. I can't remember that happening to me. I love how it made me feel, the cadence of disagreement and the respect of arguing to achieve better understanding of each other. To nudge each other along to being wider in thought and action. My son -- an adult who happens to live with me -- work on arguing respectfully. It is cool to have a model of how it is done.
Bret and Gail: I enjoyed this article. Bret, you proved your not as right wing as I thought but I think you still need to move more to the center, and Gail, I will always have your back. You're right on so many issues.
I wish McCain would have sunk the tax cuts like he did the ACA ban. He is an American hero and trump is beyond dispicable for the was he has treated McCain.
The Deems must take the House in the fall and it would be great if they also won the senate by at least three senators. 'We' have to stop these conservative, unqualified appointment being run thru by trump and McConnell.
4
McCain espoused values he certainly acquired by hard work during his career and hardship during his captivity in Vietnam. Quite a gentleman compared to Mr Trump.
I wonder, though, if the reasons for the polarization of our political parties here and in Europe don’t portend a new, ominous, sinister change in world affairs.
We seem to be coming to the end of some era, a turning point if you will, and entering a new one full of dangerous new conflict. Rougher leadership and narrower ideologies may usher in the new age
The US will honor McCain fittingly and the principles of democratic decency he stood for. Thank you, John McCain.
3
I'm not much for putting people on pedestals. McCain has feet of clay. You think we don't deserve him? I think it's the other way around, actually.
Never much cared for him. The way he mistreated, then discarded, a faithful, loyal wife who stood by him while he was a war prisoner disgusted me. I didn't like what came next, his gold-digging, and his swaggering pugnacity. He came off like a greedy bully. That disgusted me, too.
Didn't vote for him in 2008 because of it and because it might put Sarah Palin within a heartbeat of the presidency, something unimaginable until now. It's imaginable now because we now have the male version of Ms. Palin in the White House, and we suffer grievously for it every day. By selecting Palin to be his vice presidential candidate McCain opened a pathway to Trump.
He and his Senate sidekick, Graham, repeatedly let us down years later by failing to confront Trump and the abomination many still call "Populism", although I think "Trumpism" is a better term. "Trumpism" defined: a noxious cloud of profound ignorance silverlined with prejudice; inchoate hatred of anything different; the swineherd's disdain for "high-brow" culture and education generally; hypocritical religiosity and rank stupidity. By giving Palin a platform on which to strut her stuff and bray, bray, bray he legitimized it. It went a long way to make Republicanism what it is today: a corrupt, mindless reactionary political movement.
No, we didn't deserve it.
19
McCain is a hero but when we needed his leadership he abandoned us- first with Palin and then with the goptaxscam
These facts will be his legacy
8
If all our legacies were our worst moments, none of us would do very well.
Part of understanding McCain is his financial situation. His personal wealth is modest but his wife is worth hundreds of millions. When he discloses his tax returns it’s his separate returns as if he dooesn’t benefit from those hundreds of milions. Separate records show little charitable giving other than to wealthy private schools. Not such a good record if you ask me.
11
Senator McCain is a hero & a patriot, but let's not get carried away. He tried to place the disastrous Ms. Palin in the line of succession. He voted against Obamacare & just about any recent progressive legislation you could name.
13
My view is we didn't deserve Sarah Palin.
10
While he served his country like hundreds of thousands of other Americans, If I recall correctly, McCain was hot dogging it and crashed a jet killing many service members. When your family is not connected actions like this end your career.
6
I have noted a pattern in how this administration operates. Jeff Sessions is willing to take all types of insults if he can traumatize as many dark skinned people as he can get away with. The payoff is just way too gratifying to give up. Given the opportunities to cause as much misery as he can get away with, Mitch McConnell will take all types of abuse just for the opportunity to inflict economic and social misery on people up against it, the more vulnerable the better. And now we see the Israeli government will even allow two virulent anti-semitic preachers give their blessing at the American Embassy as long as their blood lust can be momentarily satisfied. That is Trump's genius. The carrot and stick approach. Asserting his power to dominate through humiliation as the price for the opportunity to feed murderous addictions.
2
I deeply respect John McCain's service to our country. I do not, however, believe he's been all that great for America, having voted most of the time for policies that are not good for most Americans. He caved in when the Bushes went after him in 2000 in South Carolina, and made the biggest tactical error ever in agreeing to Sarah Palin as a running mate. His thumbs down vote to save the ACA is one thing I will forever be grateful for, but as we are living in our daily hell, it is waaaaaay too little, waaaay too late.
10
Here is something about McCain:
MCCAIN: US EMBASSY SHOULD BE IN J'LEM
https://www.jpost.com/.../McCain-US-embassy-should-be-in...
I am not saying that McCain was right or wrong. But now that the Democrats have decided to "deify" McCain this statement of his is nowhere to be seen in the media.
I am thinking of writing to Trump.
"Dear Mr. Trump, please attack me in one of your twitters and lots of people will then love me!"
5
John McCain, seems to be the last patriot among the present day Republicans in Congress. Sure, Sasse, Flake and a couple of others have spoken up and against the ego-maniac in the White House, but they have sided with #45 on the repeal of the ACA and the GOP-Tax-Scam!
I'm holding on the hope that before he takes his last breath, John McCain will rally his party to put country over party and at the very least sanction Donald!
Bret, to claim that Donald had a "very good week" because two prisoners came home and the embassy opened in Jerusalem is a stretch! The Iran Nuclear deal was scrapped putting the world in further danger! His EPA is doing everything possible to repeal regulations that have protect our precious resources! The man is a disaster!
2
3 prisoners came home, and scrapping the Iran deal united the regional powers with Israel as they repelled an Iranian attack. Even the fracas yesterday was condemned only by Europeans and UN types, not the Gulf states themselves.
Read more news.
John McCain voted 91% of the time with the GOP's bad policies, we certainly didn't deserve McCain. He chose a running mate with few brains in 2008 and did nothing to help our democracy in 2018. You have to respect the military service but the rest, not so much.
11
Comparing John McCain with the corrupt, self serving disgraceful cadet Bone Spur is a laugh. Coward vs Courage in every respect.
4
my thought: the one thing about McCain that grinds on Trump's psyche the most is --McCain went to Vietnam and suffered through cruel treatments yet never "surrendered", and Trump got deferments from bone spurs, of which foot he can't remember ( yo, you can't forget that unless you had surgical removal !) Trump is jealous of McCain's virtue that he never has !!!
5
It would have been virtuous not to go to Vietnam.
There is no virtue in pursuing war.
It was your third exclamation point that convinced me. Calm down.
While I understand the beltway pundit's need to fill column inches and reinforce the ridiculous "maverick" label that they bestowed upon him, John McCain was never anything more than a hack politician who got caught stuffing bribe money in his pockets , spent his career promoting legislation that served the interests of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, and lobbying for disastrous wars and budget busting defense budgets. Oh yeah, and Sarah Palin. We may not have deserved him, but he was inflicted upon us anyway.
8
Some of us DO deserve Senator McCain. And some of us deserve the bubonic plague. Just saying.
4
John McCain became an undeniable hero under unfortunate circumstances: America's perverse, thuggish war against the Vietnamese. Now, in his last days, Senator McCain's heroism shines ever brighter through his leadership in an ideological war against a real menace that has mocked and crushed his beloved nation's soul: Donald Trump.
1
Don't kid yourselves about Ben Sasse: he's all talk. When it's time to vote, he's just another sock puppet for the Republicans' dark-money plutocracy -- which will keep backing Trumpsky as long as he keeps letting its lobbyists write the laws.
3
Compare who trump favors coming out of the military. The only military personnel trump likes those who are unapologetic liars (Kelly) and felons. Convicted felons - like Flynn. What a commander in chief and role model for our military!
Now a felon, Flynn endores felon-man-walking candidates in 2018. Fortunately Flynn should not be able to vote as the felon that he is.
Sorry, John McCain maybe was once a hero, however, as a Senator he receives the MOST money from the NRA, has voted w/Trump, let's say 99.9% of the time... NOW, he has regrets? Spare me, he's as immoral as the rest of the GOP!
4
I have noted a pattern in how this administration operates.
Jeff Sessions is willing to take all types of insults if he can traumatize as many dark skinned people as he can get away with. The payoff is just way too gratifying to give up.
Given the opportunities to cause as much misery as he can get away with, Mitch McConnell will take all types of abuse just for the opportunity.
And now we see the Israeli government will even allow two virulent anti-semitic preachers give their blessing at the American Embassy as long as their blood lust can be momentarily satisfied.
That is Trump's genius. The carrot and stick approach. Asserting his power to dominate through humiliation while giving horrible people the opportunity to feed their murderous addictions.
I would say we deserve McCain and do NOT deserve trump !
I used to admire some of what McCain said. After all, when he denounced torture, he was speaking from first-hand experience. Since McCain decided that the CIA should be able to torture people, I have lost all respect for him. Don't get me started on Palin.
2
Consider what would have happened if McCain, Flake and Sasse said, "Even though we agree some of the things Trump is pushing, we're voting against anything supported by him or Mitch McConnell, until our Party rights itself."
Not getting their Tax Bill, rather hand-wringing books of anguish by these guys, would have forced the Donor Class to stop the madness.
Bret: "That assumes there will be another administration."
As we obsess ourselves with the daily "Who said what nasty thing to whom", let us not lose sight of the very real threats this administration is making to our governing principals, the rule of law, and core freedoms.
Even should Trump's moves with Iran and Korea turn out to be positive, they become no more than "Oh, look, a squirrel!" if, in the meantime, he packs the courts, impedes a free press, and sells our land and environment to whomever he chooses.
1
The personal problem Trump will never overcome is he is just not a likable person. Poll numbers are guided by policies, but always in these poll numbers is that likability variable. Yes, Trump's base likes this guy for all the qualities that the majority of Americans---thank god--find unlikable. To name a few---he is mean spirited, vulgar, untrustworthy, loud, ignorant, cheater (both in business and in marriage). No matter how much I disagreed with John McCain's policies, I still liked him, both for his honorable service, but also, for his humor and self-deprecation. The same could be said of President Obama---he was very likable. Deep down, this is what drives Trump crazy, no matter what political or business successes he racks up, he knows deep down, most who surround him feel in the words of his chief of staff, that he is an idiot.
We have Senator McCain to thank for Sarah Palin. So let's just mull this over a bit. And yes, I suppose we can all see Russia from our front yard.
1
Gail and Bret's column, one of the few refuges in America today where civility rules a public political debate. Where their humor serves as guardrails, not cheap gotchas.
Their civility hold even when discussing such a turbulent topic as Mitt Romney’s dog strapped to the car roof.
Bravo!
1
Funny. When he ran for president, I recall him being labeled racist and Islamophobic, as well as out of touch in general. Gee, maybe those terms should have been saved for someone who deserved it. What we have now is what you get when you scream insults at everything. They don't mean anything and no one listens. And then it's too late.
1
I am really sick and tired of reading about John McCain the hero.
Personally, I prefer my hero's to not be foolish hypocrites. Any of the microscopic things McCain did that were helpful to the average citizen were washed into the DC swamp when he chose to support Trump. And that was even after Trump trashed his war record. How do you support a guy who weaseled out of the army with phony medical issues when you spent years as a POW.
John McCain is a coward for that act and nothing else matters. Especially his quasi foxhole come to Jesus moment where he's turning against the man he supported knowing he was a despicable human being.
As the saying goes: To little too late Mr McCain.
2
On second thought, maybe we don't deserve someone who chooses the likes of Sarah Palin or Mike Pence as a running mate. Maybe we deserve thoughtful, careful candidates who have integrity and a plan for success for all citizens in our America. Maybe we deserve someone who can figure out how not to start a war, how not to incite hate, and how not to alienate our allies.
Best conversation yet you two! Found things to agree and disagree with both of you. Bret is right--Trump needs to go and the GOP needs to be accountable for what they've done. Gail is right about the Iran deal. One of the most stupid and dangerous decisions ever. And about McCain. Trump has been allowed since early in his campaign and now as President to say and do as he pleases. The GOP gives him a pass--at least in public. His supporters love his rude dishonesty. The media is wishy-washy about what he says, normalizing his words and behavior. It's a sad situation.
96
Some say John McCain rallied against money in politics however history and his track record tell a vastly different story. His hawkish and interventionist strategies in almost every US conflict go against his self proclaimed "for the little guy" strategy. I have watched him dither, self promote, and self aggrandize for the majority of my adult life.
I am truly sorry for his medical condition and for his family but the attempts to hold him up as some pillar of congressional excellence is absurd. He should have retired after the 2008 campaign and put his preaching into practice by helping those he claimed to champion for instead of collecting more special interest money and playing angry birds during committee meetings.
It’s disingenuous of the Times to sing McCains praises now after savaging him during his presidential run. And anyhow, wasn’t he on the the Keating Five pay-to-play Team? Reprimanded in the Senate, I recall...
2
Wonder if McCain ever thinks about the innocent Vietnamese who undoubtedly died from the bombs he dropped from his A-4 in the days before his capture and imprisonment.
2
Stop with the canonization of McCain. He is an old potty mouthed establishment politician who should have went home to Arizona decades ago. He is a ham handed pol, not especially bright, whose inept half hearted campaign gave us Obama. He was a democrat in republican clothing, a media darling, always good for an angry quote he would later regret. So stop the sugar coating. He was the epitome of the establishment swamp, the type of leader that this country roundly rejected in the last election. And O yea, he was a war hero for the millionth time.
2
John McCain began his assendancy in the final years of Ronald Reagan's Admin. First elected to the Senate in 1986.
Senator McCain, like everything Republican(ie...Bush) that came after Reagan......was a fraud. John McCain fit the mold of the Gilded Age Senator......greedy, corrupt....like so many other Bush Minions. "Maverick" they called him........even his nickname was a fraud. Almost immediately caught with both hands in the bank till............keating savings & loan...1989. Following that scandal, John McCain accomplished .... nothing. All of his grandstanding, wrapping himself in the flag, and proclaiming himself a maverick...finally garnered him a Republican nomination to become president.......he quickly wasted that away by voting FOR an 800Billion Dollar Bailout(the following day...McCain's poll numbers fell below Obama's for the first time and never regained.....Sarah Palin had nothing to do with McCain's failures).....then McCain allowed Palin to become the scapegoat........
John McCain is like all Americans both deeply flawed as well as having their moments of greatness. I cannot imagine the life-pressures he felt being one of a long line of senior military officers going all the way back to the Revolution. While I was serving in the Navy I knew Aviators who knew John McCain and their opinions were mixed at best as we saw the broadcasts from Viet-Nam showing McCain before his captors. Of course, we were safe on the ship while he was in a POW camp – who knows what we would do in the same actual circumstances.
Perhaps knowing that his days are limited has changed the man for the better. He leaves behind a mixed legacy of showing both his flaws and his brilliance. I will remember him for being a human who tried, despite his own short-comings, to do what he could for the nation. Not everyone agrees with 100% of what he has done or said but few of us could do better under the same circumstances.
3
"But there was always a seriousness of purpose, and a quality of self-deprecation, and a basic decency to everything he did."
Well said! Basic human decency that we generally agreed to in this country was what bound us as a nation. We could be Democrats or Republicans, agree to disagree over politics in a civilized, respectful manner, and work on solving economic and social problems by being pragmatic and viewing politics as the art of compromise.
Yes, we had some terrible lapses, when some politicians and citizens decided not to be decent or respectful--the McCarthy communist witch hunt era, the ugly struggle for civil rights in the South, the wrenching anger and disagreement over the Vietnam war.
However, during these trying times good Republicans and Democrats came together to stand up for doing what is humane and right--helped by passionate, articulate leaders, such as
Joseph Welch's remark to McCarthy: "You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"
JFK's inauguration speech line: "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Martin Luther King, Jr.'s statement:"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character".
And, as Brett mentioned: John McCain gently correcting the woman who thought Obama was a Muslim.
Is Trump the end of human decency in politics?
3
If we deserve a president who boasted that avoiding std’s in the seventies when he was single was his “personal Vietnam,” referring to himself, therefore, as a “brave soldier,” we are all in even worse trouble than I thought. If the aforementioned isn’t bad enough, there’s even more to trump’s grotesquely bragadocious quote; however, decency prevents me from including it here. Think Access Hollywood tape—only even more foul.
2
John McCain is overrated. A beneficiary of nepotism, a flawed human being who never quite achieved his potential.
2
Ben Sasse? Patty Murray?
That two columnists I read have come up with those possibilities for President is stupefying.
Candid talk is revealing. But it can dull one's admiration.
On Iran, EU and US should push to amend the agreement so that inspections can take place "any time, any place" and at military installations.
1
Trump got this far with North Korea because he agreed to pay them off. Pompeo indicated as much last week.
The problem is this: North Korea has a failed economic system called communism and a despotic dictator called Kim Jong-un.
To pay NK money to rescue their crummy economic system thereby stabilizing their dictator, is really to pay ransom due to their nuclear weapons.
I realize that the messaging is packaged differently, but if we pay them money to help their economy, it is still ransom.
And how much economic value in concessions to China have we paid to keep China putting the pressure on Kim Jong-un?
This is all VERY expensive for the US, but packaged so nicely that the voters and media will scarcely notice the cost and the role the US is playing as the blackmailee.
2
"Since we’re talking about a great senator, is there anybody coming up right now who you could imagine as the next John McCain?"
Where art thou, Franken?
Well, those who live by the sword die by the sword, I guess.
1
John McCain is the man who opened the door to crazy in American politics. His choice of running mate was not made with his head. And since then, the formula of lunatic statements + press = election has put this nation in extreme jeopardy.
4
Was this piece necessary? My opinion of Ms. Collins has lowered substantially, while my opinion of Stephens is "suspicions confirmed". If these two were speaking this way over dinner, fine. I think it serves no one for it to appear in this paper. Was it supposed to be a "pre-death" in memorium? The man lives! And not mentioning the Alaskan sow is bizarre, to say the least.
3
Bret - such weaseling! Castigate tRump but gives a pass to the enablers Ryan and McConnel. Typical- the ends justify the means for Bret and his ilk.
4
McCain chose Sarah Palin as VP showing complete disrespect for the presidency.
4
What a circus we have, a roman circus to feed the hungry lions in Trump's base, misinformed ignorants biased to accept the constant barrage of lies and insults as the gospel truth. Loyalty vs Reality, Fiction vs facts. Applause to exalt Trump's vanity....instead of a long due introspection in accepting the truth, and condemning the irresolute lack of scruples of the vulgar bully in-chief. Trump's unilateral and brutish decisions are isolating the U.S. from the world, as he continues to treat our allies as garbage. This will boomerang, as certain as what goes up will go down. And the higher Trump goes, the harder the fall. Soon, let's hope.
4
Let's not forget George Will's immortal characterization of Donald Trump as a "bloviating ignoramus"
5
First time I ever that George Will made me smile.
1
No, we deserve much better than John McCain! We don't deserve his brand of warmongering and racist jingoism.
How embarrassing to have senators that sing "Bomb bomb bomb Iran"! Don't these so-called "statesmen" realize that the UN Charter prohibits threats of military force?
No, the American people deserve much better than John McCain! And poll after poll shows that we want much better, but that our system is unwilling to offer it!
8
"Why not replace the Statue of Liberty with a brand-new Trump casino..."
Or the Statue of Libertine with his finger raised. (This can't be a new thought.)
3
Silly me....I actually thought the opinion might somehow relate to John McCain, not merely the writer's discussing about being around John McCain.
2
While I am sorry Mr. McCain is dying the way he is, and thank him for his service to this country, if we're honest, he is part of the reason we have Trump in office, and contributed greatly to the GOP cultivation of its hate-filled, racist, ill-informed base. I'll never forget him singing and dancing "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Eye-ran". He successfully de-humanized the Iranian people so the U.S. could feel good about openly celebrating bombing human beings. Sick. Also, I wish people would stop congratulation McCain for his "defense" of Obama, stating, no, "he's not an Arab, he's a good family man". In reality, one can be Arab (and Muslim) and a good family man, but not in the world view McCain promoted. (and not what Islamaphobe Bret Stephens would promote) I'm sure he and Bret will be pleased to see us bombing Iran, and killing as many of its people as possible. And NYT will be sure to publish their ghoulish celebration.
5
If you look at McCain's record you can see he was not a strong senator: Keating 5 scandal? Iraq? Palin? The left is so desperate to demonize Trump that they are idolizing those that created the swamp and wearing blinders in doing so.
I think it is mostly because he is one of the few repubs who has not embraced trump and also has been more vocal about it as his life nears its end.
2
The McCain record:
Received 23 medals for serving only 20 hours in combat and getting captured. I'm sure being an Admiral's son had nothing to do with so many honors being bestowed for so little actual service.
As a member of the Keating Five took $112,000 (in 1980s dollars) from a known criminal who all but orchestrated the S&L scandal.
Put the interests of the banker criminals who wrecked the world economy ahead of American taxpayers by supporting the $700 billion bailout.
Unrepentant warmonger who acted as a key cheerleader for the Iraq War and every other conflict the US has become mired in for the last thirty years.
"Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran".
7
A civil discussion. Thank you.
2
What we did not deserve was a guy who inflicted Sarah Palin upon us. Nor did we deserve a Senator who let Cheeto walk all over him when he could have fought back with the truth in a complete reversal to the traitorous Republican party line. Spare me the platitudes about McCain. Maybe he served his country as a pilot long ago since then has been a coward of the first order.
2
What makes anyone think Sadler was making a joke? That’s giving the infestation more credit than it warrants.
This sentimental lionizing of McCain is going too far. Does anyone remember his vote for the tax cuts for the rich, which will stick it even worse to the poor and send our deficit beyond the moon? Not to mention his cynical pick of Palin. Sheesh!
6
Helped get us into Iraq, and also ushered in the era of "stupid" politics with Sarah Palin. He's been a terrible influence on this country.
1
You don’t really want me to cite the bike, hateful lies written about Sen McCain by columnists of the Times while he was running for President. Let’s also not forget the ultimate fake news story on the front page that He was having an affair. Don’t tell me now we should admire him.
2
Think Kelly Sadler's comments were disgusting, but did McCain ever publicly apologize for HIS joke about teen-age (TEENAGE for crying out loud!) Chelsea Clinton being "so ugly" because her parents were Hilary Clinton and Janet Reno.
Sorry, truly, he has brain cancer, but he proved himself to be a cruel sexist homophobic bully and bigot.
3
"Bret: By the standards of this administration, Trump had a very good week . . . the move of the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem" . Does the shooting down of Palestinians qualify by the standards of this administration?
1
Yesterday, Dana Milbank called John McCain the greatest statesman of our time.
Do you people have short memories?
Do you read any history?
John McCain crashed three planes because of complete lack of discipline, he is a serial womanizer, the Keating five, he never saw a potential for a war he didn't like, he dumped his wife, and he brought us Sarah Palin.
His big push for the Iraq War cost us trillions of dollars, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, killed many of our soldiers, and upset the Middle East for the last fifteen years.
We need serious journalism, not this romantic dribble.
5
McCain is a giant among the Republican Lilliputians. Granted he had his share of mistakes, the biggest being selecting Sarah Palin as his running mate, but he was a principled politician, not a demagogue like the current occupant of the WH.
His best contribution was the campaign finance reform that was so unceremoniously undone by the SCOTUS. Our government now runs like a mob family - we have the Don (literally and figuratively) and a bunch of underlings scurrying around doing his bidding. Some, like Michael Cohen, begin to sell access and have a side business monetizing their way to riches even as the Don looks away.
McCain's last hurrah is uninviting the Groper-in-Chief to his own funeral. Nothing can be sweeter than that. Wish you a safe, smooth, and soft landing into the next world.
Hey don't turn this guy into a God.
Yes, he was way better than the ego maniac, pathological liar Trump but so was just about every other elected modern day leader.
Yes McCain worked across the isle and was a general moderate but he never met a war he did not like.
Obama was better.
McCain was the modern day version of Teddy Roosevelt, a war monger.
Thousands of American lives were lost because of him from Vietnam to Iraq for no reason.
If you want to play the we don't deserve it game, pick Lincoln who set the gold standard for leadership in the modern world.
1
Mr. McCain is responsible for what is perhaps the most astoundingly political blunder of all time. He chose a no-nothing governor from Alaska to be his 2008 running mate. And then the TeaParty started. Ouch!
2
Whether America deserves John McCain is a debatable subject (some of us do, some of us don't) but, sure as the fires of Hades, Americans do not deserve the pouter/ blowhard/misogynist/liar-in-chief now defiling the chair, carpet and desk in the Oval Office.
I have to pick up on Bret's final concern about the possibility that this may be the last presidential administration in the history of the the United States. Trump makes no secret of his admiration --and envy-- of Putin and Xi, both of whom have pretty much set in stone their "president-for-life" tenures.
The next two election cycles will be two most consequential elections in American history, because they will either be the last two, or, hopefully, the beginning of the return to the ideals of our Founders.
1
The deification of Sen. McCain has gotten a little out of hand. Yes, 50 years ago he refused release, and no one can dispute his heroism. On the other hand, forty years ago he divorced his first wife under some fairly unsavory circumstances. Thirty years ago, he as a prominent member of the Keating Five -- called in some publications the "most reprehensible" of the group. And ten years ago, he selected a clearly unqualified hockey mom and asked America to put her a heartbeat from the presidency.
So, the idea that no one can utter a bad word about McCain because the press likes him so much is a bit ridiculous. And, that Ms. Stadler should come out in public and be publicly flogged for an off-hand, and off the record, crack seems disproportionate to the offense. She made a private crack, she apologized to the daughter in private -- I say let it go and let's move on.
1
It's inevitable, as someone reaches the end of life, that we remember only what was best about them. Unlike Trump, McCain has tried to maintain some dignity and respect for the institutions of government, undoubtedly contributing to his current appeal. By that standard, we'll soon be having celebrations of George W. Bush as a great leader...despite ignoring bin Laden, starting the Iraq War, endorsing CIA torture, and causing the Great Recession. Personally, I would be willing to overlook some failures of dignity and respect, if the policies and results are satisfactory. On that score, Trump gets F in dignity and respect, but is doing OK in eliminating ISIS, encouraging peace with North Korea, and not getting us into any stupid unnecessary wars or recessions (at least not yet).
1
"Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?"
Quite right! We do not deserve Sen. McCain. We never deserved Sarah Palin and her brand of xenophobic, ignorant racism. Nor we did deserve to see and hear a victim of warfare chant "Bomb, bomb Iran" Nor did we deserve the bewildered, at-a-loss reaction to the 2008 Lehman meltdown that he displayed.
He is a war hero. He made a sacrifice I hope my son never has to make. But since then, he has been out of his depth
Oh yes John McCain a full-throated accomplice to the despicable larceny of President Obama's Supreme Court seat. Great man, John, dedicated to the rules of a democracy.
And no matter how Bret tries to run from his conservative creature, Bret is still just an misinformed republican, no different than Trump.
Love that last line. So à propos.
Neocon love fest. Warmongers deserve one another. Oh, if only the Republican Party had chosen Ron Paul.
I disagree with John McCain about almost everything except campaign finance reform & the ACA. But that aside, I have deep respect for his courage, sacrifice & desire to do the right thing. Stephens is right McCain's finest hour politically was his defense of Senator Obama on the campaign trail.
I believe Trump lobs disgusting insults at John McCain because he's jealous of McCain. Donald Trump doesn't have a brave bone in his body & is incapable of acknowledging courage in others. (Recall Trump's statement that Civil Rights hero John Lewis has never accomplished anything). Trump is a chronic liar, thief and cheat, a man with absolutely no honor. The deeply dishonest, boorish Trump finds Barack Obama's wisdom, honesty, class and decency infuriating. A buffoonish, cowardly man, Trump can't bear it that McCain is courageous, principled and dignified. Endowed with natural leadership qualities where Trump has none, both Obama and McCain have millions of admirers who are fiercely loyal to them and love them.
Can anyone honestly say they are loyal to Trump for any reason except political expediency? And who is there who admires, much less loves, Donald Trump?
There's the wellspring for Trump's viciousness toward John McCain. It's almost impossible to smear a selfless war hero
who's impressed millions with his personal integrity and decency. Trump's on the wrong side of history on many things, none more so than his disrespect of John McCain.
1
I honor his service in Vietnam. I’m happy he voted to keep the ACA alive. I’m sorry that he’s got a brain tumor and feel for his family. The man’s not a deity though. Voting for the Trump tax scam was unconscionable.
Maybe you should ask the Iraqis displaced from their homes after the 2003 war how much they respect John McCain?
"[T]he administration won’t formally apologize for the White House aide Kelly Sadler’s appalling “He’s dying anyway” comment about McCain." It's too late for an apology, only firing Sadler would be appropriate, but we know that's not going to happen.
While Gail is stunned the "Sadler-McCain thing...got leaked." I am stunned that Gail says "The fact that in private conversation, presidential aides occasionally make deeply offensive wisecracks about the opposition...isn’t exactly shocking."
There are "deeply offensive wisecracks" and then there are loathsome, abominable, sick thoughts which should never enter a decent human's mind and certainly not pass their lips. If joking about McCain's death is dismissed as an example of what "presidential aides occasionally"do, and is not shocking, what is off limits? And that is what worries me about Trump's affect on everything. We are not spiraling downward, we are in decency free-fall.
And the real irony is that this is being brought about by Evangelical Christians. Who follow the steps of Jesus Christ. Mocking Him. If the ancient Roman colosseums were still in business, the seats would be filled with rapturous Evangelical Christians cheering on the lions.
1
"Sincere Republican penance for electing this lout as our president and debasing our collective moral currency."
.
Good piece until here. It's the Dems who should be doing penance (though they'll have to get past the religion thing first) for putting up Hillary. Simple as.
McCain's correction of the woman accusing B Obama of being "an Arab" was his finest moment - though not all that fine, since people seem to forget that McCain went on to equate decency with being Christian, and didn't remind the woman that it's not actually a crime to be Arab.
McCain, the "political ideal," unleashed Sarah Palin to call Obama a "terrorist" in 2008. Relentlessly.
He's not an honorable man.
Man, I just love these Gail-Bret discussions.
We can be thankful that McCain cuts Trump no slack but McCain is also responsible for death and misery in this world.
I worked on the McCain campaigns in 2000 and 2008. It was amazing how the media fawned all over him as a moderate speaker of truth in the primary against George W. Bush, and then vilified him as a right-wing nut-job when he was running against Barrack Obama.
You are right. You really don't deserve John McCain.
Never really cared for the man.
While I do appreciate his military service, he was the man who forced that idiotic embarrassment, flautist and 1/2 term alaskan governor sarah " I can see russia from my house" palin.
McCain helped usher med in one of the most divisive chapters in our nation's history
And all because he was too weak willed to say "no" to charles and david koch.
And the distasteful joke at McCain's expense was at least in part due to the toxic brand of politics McCain himself espoused.
Not a word from either of you concerning Senator McCain's enduring gift to America, the proto-Trump also known as Sarah Palin.
We all die of something. It doesn't mean that impending death washes away the sins of the dying.
There was much I admired about Senator McCain until he legitimized placing the poster child of abject stupidity within reach of the presidency.
1
In reality, the lout, Trump, is the political equivalent of a broken clock. Right twice a day but so often wrong that it is useless.
1
We may not deserve John McCain, but we definitely do not deserve the government we have.
We have an ignorant, incapable president who lost the popular vote in the election.
We have a deadlocked congress full of Republicans who should have lived in the 19th century because their ideas definitely do not work in 2018.
1
Trump does not apologize because he is never wrong. His narcissism demands it and it is deplorable.
1
Dear Gail and Bret,
This is also the man who inflicted Sarah Palin and crew upon us and consistently voted with the performative cruelty of Republicans. He did almost nothing to knock down the rumors of Obama's birth and did cater to racist elements in his party. John is no icon.
Palin wasn't vetted properly, and even if she had been, her true colors would have remained hidden until she took to the campaign trail.
1
Its come to this, that we revere a moderate Republican. No matter that he voted for pretty much everything that Republicans are responsible for: high cost of bad wars, channeling the wealth of America to the wealthy, destroying the environment, stuffing our jails like no other, proliferation guns and weapons and all of the stinking Republicanism I have had to endure all my life. No, I do not respect McCain. He is and has been the enemy.
I miss a time when people on the other side of the political spectrum could be called "opponents," not "enemies."
Am I the only one who is sick and tired of the media proclaiming that McCain "saved Obamacare"? McCain's one solitary vote was relevant only because it was added to the dozens of votes from the unanimous Democratic caucus. The Democrats saved the ACA. McCain just joined them.
3
Yes, the Dems saved it. Saved it to eventually fail, as it was a corporate protection scheme, one that cost Americans a huge amount.
Obama had full control of the Congress and presidency for a few months. He could have done the right thing and passed single payer. That he didn't will forever haunt us.
Politics is a very tough game. McCain is a politican, so had to play by the rules of that game. He probably tried to do the correct thing, but he made some very serious errors. Palin was one of those. The Keating S & L affair was another. But when compared to Trump, McCain comes across as being about 50% of the ideal of political perfection. My image of political perfection is and remains Obama, however.
1
Bret recalls a high point in McCain's past:
"He publicly corrected a woman in the heat of the 2008 campaign who called Barack Obama an 'Arab.' "
Could somebody please explain what's so bad about being an Arab?
Seems to me we like them just fine when they're selling us oil.
No maybe about it, we don't deserve Trump and his gang of NY thugs. We don't deserve the lies, the constant condescending tone, the bullying, the name-calling, the hate, the groping. We don't deserve this sex-lies-videotape presidency. Make it end, you two! Help!!
McCain? Not my fav political officer. But someone to respect? You can say that again!! Best wishes, Senator McCain. All the best.
2
So James has been boosting his brother's image, has he? Michael needs all the help he can get, but even then won't get very far.
John McCain was a republican. The republican party has long been anti-gay, anti-minority, anti-women. McCain has supported this party all along. Just because he is dying does mean he has been a good person. And, he put Sarah Palin in the national limelight...
Before we anoint McCain the saint, let's remember all the obstruction against Obama he led, as well as his vote for the Republican tax scam.
If we all agree with you "we don't deserve John McCain", Will that hasten his departure? OK, I AGREE WITH YOU!
To be honest when I think of McCain, I think of his selection of Sarah Palin to be his running mate. This gave huge impetus to the Republican's tendency to have ignorant, incompetent and, frankly, not very bright people making policy statements based on lies, misrepresentations, ideology, and stupidity. This, of course, has culminated in Donald Trump.
And, since the first sentences on economics in McCain's platform were:
"America’s debt is now approaching $17 trillion (over $53,000 per person). Senator McCain believes efforts to reduce the federal debt and deficit by reducing spending are critical to the future of our nation.",
I also found his views on economics to be disastrous. Need I point out yet again that EVERY TIME we significantly (10% or greater) paid down the federal debt, we fell into one our 6 terrible depressions.
Oh puhleeze - stop the deification of John McCain, former denizen of the Keating Five. He's had more positions than a Stormy Daniels movie. He changes with the winds and his re-election campaigns. He was for it before he was against it, and was against it before he was for it. Enough with him.
1
McCain picked Palin to be a heartbeat away, and so legitimized the circus.
1
The apotheosis of Saint John by The Times is a bit disingenuous. It appears to be motivated by two factors. One, his stint in the Hanoi Hilton - which no one envies McCain's suffering or those of his fellow POW colleagues. Two, McCain is not Trump. Absent those two qualifiers, McCain's life arc offers little to justify his exalted status by The Times. He was rescued at Annapolis by his Admiral Father. He was graced out of the Navy as a Captain in spite of his Admiral bloodline. His voting record on veterans issues was shameful. His attacks on colleagues were pitiful. But, McCain's shortcomings are dwarfed by the salient factor - NEVER TRUMP. R.I.P. Senator McCain. Long live Saint John.
Great chat!
1
The problem with John McCain are the times where he turned away from himself. The John McCain who worried about the influence of big money in politics, the John McCain who challenged the GOP's policies on torture, the McCain who was willing to voice his own ideas, even if I disagreed with him, made me respect him. The McCain who sold his soul to try and get elected, who allowed a nincompoop like Palin to be forced on him, the McCain who described the forces of the hard right and the religious right as being forces of hate and intolerance morphed into the candidate of 2008, and while he weakly defended Obama as a decent man, allowed the GOP hate show to dominate the campaign, never criticizing, for example, the fundy preacher who at several of his campaign rallies called for LGBT people to be put into concentration camps. I know for a fact McCain regretted the 2008 campaign, that he was mad that he let the party dictate how he ran, and hopefully now he will fight for what he thinks is right, rather than what McConnell and the Koch brothers and trump think.
102
I would appreciate it very much, and it would mean a lot to many, if he publicly acknowledged regret about the 2008 campaign.
13
I'd be happy if he just admitted Sarah Palin was a horrible choice and that by elevating her, he has some responsibility for the decline of civility coming from the Republican Party.
15
"The stunning thing to me about that Sadler-McCain thing was that it got leaked."
Stunning? There are all kinds of leakers. Angry employees, frightened patriots, compulsive gossips, drunks, name-droppers, toadies who resent the very feet they kiss, and blabbermouths who eventually pour out everything that enters their ears.
But in Trumpland, it seems the very walls have ears. Literally. The question is, who do those ears belong to and where are they hidden? If I knew, I'd never tell.
Check out NRA contributions to McCain or his campaigns as of a few years ago, before opposition to NRA crystallized. I got this data either from NYT or Washington Post — I think — anyway, some reputable source. John McCain was listed as the number one recipient of NRA money. I don't know what mythology was used, but I'd love to see Fact Checker's view on this. This does not demean the many other wonderful things McCain has done and been. It's probably a reflection of the cost of being prominent in U.S. politics, but I wish McCain hadn't accepted that money.
Demagogue his way to victory in 2008? For that he had the candidate for the vice-presidency. It was an important one of many factors that lost McCain the election. The electorate knew that he was getting on in years and not in the best of health and choked collectively on the words "President Palin". In consequence many of the rest of us choked on the words "President McCain", particularly after he demagogued the mid-October financial crisis, pseudo-suspending his campaign, going back to D.C. and looking substantially less presidential than my mother-in-law. The press has busied itself turning McCain into a saint, and it has a convenient foil, the thug in the White House, but at bottom he was just a senator from a very red state, not much better than most others.
1
Please let's not forget that John McCain took the most money of any congressman, $700,000 (according to the NYT) from the NRA. And let's not forget that he took Sarah Palin as a running mate, to his shame. An enabler on the road to where we are now. Possibly somewhat balanced by the health care vote and his war service.
"....debasing our collective moral currency." (Bret S, we are friends again!) And that's the core of this current political paradigm. We can go on forever disagreeing about political policies. Those arguments are what was meant to be when our Foredads created a still most relative, profound, and necessary Constitution. We may pull our hair out with our neighbor's take on this Congress and Trump, but we have to have those checks and balances. Remember those??
Now Trump...I daily say that this amoral creature has reached rock bottom. However, this latest comment about a terminally ill Senator McCain has taken him and his administration to Hades, never to return. Do you recall those immortal words which brought down McCarthyism? To paraphrase, Have you no sense of decency? Where is our Welch who will help end Trumpism?
“As a senator, he exemplifies a political ideal we are fast losing sight of”? Like going from the real McCain in 2000 to a supplicant beginning with Palin as his VP running mate in 2008? As I read the South China Morning Post boast about Beijing’s billion dollar epic infrastructure plan with money going towards “Trump-branded hotels, residences and a golf course”, the notion that Trump isn’t invited to a funeral doesn’t impress me much. I hoped to vote for Sen. McCain in 2000 for president, but now what about the checks and balances that protect American democracy? This truly saddens me.
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2145808/trump-indon...
The statement made by Kelly Sadler was no joke, it was a slur. So now this administration is showing that you can use the White House as a place to lower yourself to gutter level when speaking about anyone, but especially when talking about a true American patriot like john McCain.
People like Sadler, Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney, Scott Pruitt, Mike Pompeo, John Bolton, Sarah Sanders and especially Donald Trump are unfit for their job and every time anyone of them opens their mouth they lower this country farther into the toilet.
Hopefully we will be able to begin bringing back the true America before we loose Senator McCain.
1
What exactly has McCain ever, ever done for the average American? Can anyone point to any legislation he sponsored, championed or was successful in passing, that helped the middle and working classes? (his thumbs down last year doesn't count.)
He foisted Sarah Palin and her trashy brand of incivility on us, opening the floodgates for the ignorati out there to claim their lack of education/reading/science/objectivity was some kind of virtue.
Yeah, as a campaigner he called out some racist old biddy when he was running against Obama and as a soldier he endured captivity with, apparently, dignity.
But as an elected lawmaker being paid by the citizens of this country, what has he EVER accomplished? For us, not for big donors and the 1 percent. Please enlighten me.
The Republican Party doesn’t deserve Senator McCain.
1
Amid the rubble and vulgarity of the Trump presidency the McCain star shines brightly. He represents old fashioned values and true character. A vanishing breed in a Trump era of crass greed and shallow shysters. McCain was at his best when he defended Obama’s character during their heated campaign.Stay well Senator. America needs you more than ever.
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By reneging on the pacts, treaties and agreements that the US has made under other administrations Donald Trump has proven to other countries that the US is a partner that cannot be trusted.
I don't know how it is around the dinner tables of red-staters but in most marriages and partnerships it is awfully hard to regain trust after someone in the household has cheated on a promise made. Has outright lied. Has clomped around in cleats, tearing holes in one's faith and in the underlayment.
Why should any world leader put any stock in anything Trump says, promises, or hints at. This guy is so dishonorable he gives me the shivers.
WE MAY DESERVE JOHN MC CAIN, But does he deserve us? I wonder how many appreciate the profound suffering and sacrifice he made for his country, being held prisoner in a cage for years. Even now, as he fights brain cancer with great courage and dignity, he stands as an example of sacrifice, service and duty to his country. Now let's see, which of those characteristics does he DON have? Let's count together: 3, 2, 1, ZERO!!!!!!!!
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John Sidney McCain III is the third in a line of American military Caesars. McCain is no humanitarian nor peacemaker. McCain is on his second wife. McCain is a politician. Whether we deserve McCain or not we are stuck with his many myths. Alongside America's in the Age of Trump.
I like you two guys. Keep arguing.
As McCain approaches his demise, I am afraid he will be used by the media as a substitute for round-the-clock Trump-bashing- which America and the world are getting tired of. McCain will be lauded as an anti-Trump figure, with the sanitation of the USS Forrestal incident and his war record, his role in the S&L crisis, and his responsibility over the decades as a senator from Arizona for the complete southern border breakdown and the pouring in of illegal aliens.
As a Liberal Democrat I am not in awe of John McCain. Let us not forget he choose Sarah Palin as his running mate. She was a dangerous threat to our Nation. The Best I can say about McCain is he is not an Evil person like so many Republicans these days.
Yes, Senator McCain has a lot of guts. But very little wisdom. He brought us Sarah Palin. And a vote against the ACA and a vote for Gorsuch after having been quiet about the scuppering of the Obama nominee. And there's countless other examples of the Maverick being simply a mouse. Yes, we'd rather have him then Trumpy, but that's a low bar. Among republican senators, Sasse is a flake, and Flake has no sass. They will not even take on Trumpy or their own hierarchy.
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While I respect Senator McCain as a decent man — and, boy, could we use more decent men and women in Washington! — he never struck me as a significant agent of positive change. But nuance seems to be less and less in vogue in the media, including ... sigh ... in my beloved Times.
the real question we might need to ask is: not if we deserved a man like McCain, but rather do we deserve all the dishonest phonies who continue to rip us off and profit themselves. The answer to the latter is, of course we do, if you vote for Pirates, then why be surprised when the Pirates get arrested and hauled off in handcuffs. And you only vote for Pirates out of laziness. Politics as now constructed is no place for honest men or decent man, to get elected you have to fight dirty, the candidate who uncovers the most dirt about his opponent usually win, we don't vote for someone as we vote against the other person. Trump in many ways rose to power by saying he wasn't a politician and made fun of the politicians running against him. Trump could wipe out 40 years of civil service to the nation with one quip, Jeb bush who had been Governor of Florida became low energy Jeb, just as Hillary became crooked Hillary, the voters ate it up, the American voter likes easily digestible sound bytes. but I will say, though many American Voters, through laziness and stupidity deserve the grifter they placed in office, millions more do not, the soul of America is now on trial before the world, do we deserve a nation that millions, like John McCain risked life and limb for in the belief that there is something better than tribal law or the rule of kings. Those who do not appreciate liberty are destined to lose it, the tin words of a politician are nothing compared with true valor of heroes
John McCain never met a Third World country that resisted Washington's hegemonic designs that he did not want to bomb. He'll be sorely missed by neocons and neoliberals.
What’s the fascination with John McCain, outside of his being a Vietnam veteran and the one time he stood up for Obama in 08? The so called maverick is a myth. Here are the facts.
- He abandoned and divorced his disabled and ailing 1st wife in the 80s, a woman who stood by him for several years while he was a POW, and ran off with a woman 18 years younger.
- Was one of the Keating Five scandal in the late 80’s
- He cheated on his 2nd wife, with whom he has four children, with a lobbyist.
- He was dealt a low racist blow by the Bush campaign in the 2000 primaries, which went after his adopted child on race, and yet he never denounced the GOP which stood idly by while it happened.
- He contributed to one of the biggest blunders in this nations history with the war in Iraq. Then doubled down on similar stupidity in Libya and Syria.
- Put a clearly unprepared and unqualified person on his 08 ticket, within a heartbeat of the presidency. Helped jumpstart the tea party crack pots.
- Was quickly bought up by Wall St/The Donor Class and quickly abandoned campaign finance reform.
- Voted yay on the latest tax and budget bills, which will saddle us with more debt and undermine SS and Medicare.
- Was wishy washy during the ascension of Trump 15-16, refusing to stand firm against Trump, a man who disgracefully derided him and his service, and eventually caved and groveled to Trump.
He's done more damage to this country than good and is part of the problem.
Two things: Clearly Mr. Stephens is in pain, and I wish him, and us all, the best. Lastly, it is important to have heroes and to understand that they are human. Mr. McCain, a grateful nation thanks you.
It's OK to feel sorry for John McCain, but amidst all the eulogizing, let's remember that John McCain has voted with the GOP 91% of the time during his Senate career. He is a racist, misogynistic bully, straight out of central casting as a right winger-anti abortion, pro tax cuts, warmonger, anti regulation, pro shredding the few vestiges of the safety net. As one of the Keating Five, he was a key figure in the S&L Collapse . And let's not forget he made the feckless Sarah Palin a national figure. We deserve much better than this.
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We do. Remember when he mocked "the health of the woman" by using airquotes, as though dangerous pregancies don't occur? Appalling and unforgiven.
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I hate to say it, but the fact that Donald Trump is president would seem to indicate that we do Not deserve better than this.
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People worry that the country is divided. Some see the danger, even as liberal comedians make jokes and parasitic talk radio makes money from our current vulnerability. Since we're never going to agree on everything, it will take someone of good character and decency to provide leadership.
John McCain has done some good things, like campaign finance reform, and has shown integrity in various ways. The Trump administrations demeaning of him is disgusting. We should respect him and support the family in these difficult time with all due sensitivity to their pain.
However...
Calling McCain a hero implies not only that he was brave, which he was, but that he exhibited his bravery in a good cause. Was the Vietnam War a good cause? Did it really "preserve America's freedom,," as various cliches proclaim? Was participating in the killing of roughly two million people who never did anything to us something to be proud of?
John McCain flew numerous missions over densely populated North Vietnam. We don't know the actual body count he was responsible for. Dozens, hundreds, more innocent civilians?
We don't call the German soldier who fought bravely in WWII a hero (no, I am not equating the two). Neither can I call John McCain a hero.
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Something happened along the way and now, maybe we don't deserve democracy.
Well written dialogue from you both. I too am glad to see we can disagree without wanting to immolate the other person for holding different views. I agree that we really don't deserve John McCain. He is like a beacon of what the Republicans once were.
John McCain has always been a maverick and even though very sick, he is still very much the maverick. I think it would be better for him to show some support for our president, a president who handed both houses of Congress to the GOP in the 2016 election when most thought the reverse would occur. In any event , I wish him well and I am sorry that both he and Ted Kennedy contracted such a terrible illness.
I'm surprised Ms. Collins and Mr. Stephens failed to bring Sarah Palin into the conversation. After all, if it hadn't been for Senator McCain, Ms. Palin would probably still be standing in her backyard scanning the horizon for Russians.
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I was party agnostic back in 2000 favoring Sen McCain - the last GOP I could support. "W" dispatched McCain viciously with the rest of the campaign worsening until he was anointed POTUS by SCOTUS - Iraq quagmire a direct consequence.
Sen. McCain changed after that loss, adopting too much of the radical right agenda and personality and selection of the worst VP candidate in history. He did redeem himself admirably, all too briefly, when he stood up to the woman's Obama is "an Arab" attempted slur. She turned out to be trump's base, perfectly representing the current Republican party.
McCain pried himself from the dark side with his powerful speech outing the national dividers-for-profit and political gain and his thumbs down on a cruel attempt to destroy healthcare coverage for millions - compare to trump's Caesar-like thumbs down to kill the vanquished.
Does anyone expect better from trump? He recognizes a better man than he is, so he does what he does to tear them down - as he tears down most Americans.
Trump's reneging on the Iran, Paris, etc. reflects his base as renegers too. Indeed, they're an accurate reflection of each other. Good thing they're a minority. As trump strives to become a worst self, of course he approves Sadler's statement. Hate means never having to say "I'm sorry."
How can our military men/women be led by a commander in chief with such a sincere despicable view of them - as losers?
Awe poor Nielsen, as she actively tears apart and deports families
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I respect John McCain for his service in Vietnam, for surviving captivity there, and for opposing torture. The fact that Trump and his cabinet insult a war hero in their own part shows how low. they are
But John McCain has also voted with Trump 83% of the time. He has not been the centrist vote Democrats have hoped for.
Most importantly, McCain voted for last year's tax bill. That bill was a $5 trillion tax cut on corporations and their owners, mostly paid for with a $4 trillion tax increase on high-tax-state workers. That "reform," made the tax code bigger and more complicated, threw the tax systems of many states into chaos, and will weaken the economy by taking more money out of the pockets of consumers, who created local demand, and give it to global investors who keep creating jobs in other countries.
All of you centrist Democrats who keep begging for compromise and hoping reasonable Republicans will help you create reasonable policy were once again betrayed by John McCain.
So, to make jokes about McCain dying or saying he is not a hero because he got shot down, is just wrong, but to pretend that as Senator McCain was good for the country, only makes sense if you compare him to the worst president ever, and his Neo-Confederate base.
What is the political ideal? Keating Five member who took more money from the NRA than any other member of Congress? Or the senator who never saw a war he didn't want our country involved in and never saw a war we were in that he wanted to end?
Phony praise is not a sign of respect. It is funereal protocol.
John McCain will be remembered as a war hero, but as a maverick? If memory serves, he walked back almost every "courageous" stance he ever took. With the exception of his opposition to torture, McCain has ALWAYS been willing to abandon his principles in the interest of advancing his career and asserting power.
But really, his political achievements are neither here nor there because they're utterly negated by his inexcusable, disqualifying, utterly cynical, supremely dunderheaded choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate. For all this supposed patriot loves America (remember his slogan "Country First"?), he gave us a political figure nearly as bad as Trump. THAT'S how much he loves his country. THAT'S how much he respects our government and democratic traditions. THAT'S how much he wanted to win, no matter the potential price paid by the rest of us. Moreover, he has never asked forgiveness for inflicting her upon us. May she be included in the first and last paragraphs of every obituary written about him.
BTW, I hope he'll also be remembered for his stunning and ongoing contempt for Obama, a man who showed him nothing but deference and graciousness.
I don't like to speak ill of the near dead, but I look in vain for evidence of McCain's integrity as a political leader or as a man.
One last thing: Sarah Palin.
Where is the mention of Sarah Palin? The moment Senator McCain elevated Sarah Palin he did more than anyone until Donald Trump to degrade our national discourse.
McCain may have his attributes, but any discussion of his legacy that fails to grabble with the damage he inflicted on the United States by selecting Palin as his running mate is seriously incomplete.
Only through the lens that Trump has clouded so badly could we view Senator McCain as the pinnacle of principled leadership in the US Senate or elsewhere. Episodes like his dalliance with Charles Keating will be few, I believe. So, on balance, history will (and should) be kind to McCain. (Certainly much kinder than it likely will be to another veteran -- Tom Cotton --currently serving in the Senate.) Let us not forget that he has done some truly dumb stuff along the way. But, at the same time, let us not forget that invariably, after doing or saying something that was clearly arrogant, mean, or just dumb, McCain would step forward and earnestly say "I was wrong, I am sorry, and I am going to do better."
We have reached the point in American politics where a white house staffer when told that Senator McCain would vote against a nominee stated " Ohh, he'll be dead soon." At any other time in American history this would have set off a firestorm, but since McCain stands in the nowhere land of American Politics, A republican who is against Trump, very few could muster the required energy it would take to even voice an opinion. Now if the staffer had said something like that against Bill Clinton, of Hillary or Obama, my god the roof would cave in. The fact that this staffer has probably never even been near an army base, let alone show any real courage of any kind, not even the courage to apologize, gives you your clearest answer to the question: "do we deserve John McCain". Never has an American hero been treated so shabbily by an administration. Only under President bone spurs would such a thing be possible. When told that he would be released from being a Prisoner of the Viet Cong ( who were torturing him) he said he wouldn't go unless all the man who preceded him as POWs were released as well. can you imagine if President bone spurs were in a similar situation, or any of his staffers were given a similar offer, they would be on the first flight home before the offer was even out of the mouth. What makes it worse, we live in a country right now, that would consider Mccain's act of uncommon bravery as foolish, this is how far we've sunk.
Spot-on comment about Bill Bennett. Anyone defending Joe Arpaio has forfeited his license to talk about civic or any other kind of virtue.
Based on most accounts , John McCain may well be a war hero. Let’s stop calling him an “American “ hero.
His choice to put Sarah Palin on the ticket was an aberration that helped make ignorance and lack of credentials acceptable to run for office.
Most true American heroes have not been in the battlefield.
Let's not get crazy here.
He pushed the third Iraq War ( aka "The Surge" ) harder than anyone, and still insists it worked, despite the death, destruction, and the formation of ISIS that it wrought.
He also pushed herder than anyone to arm the rebels fighting Assad, until we found out that they weren't rebels, but were a terrorist organization.
In short, he was a neo-con's neo-con, who despite being a victim of an unnecessary war, had no problem pushing more of them on the rest of us.
What is happening? I can tolerate (like?) Bret Stephens even though I loathe his political stands.
I read Bennett's piece with a raised eyebrow, I was never convinced of his sincerity. But to claim "decency" for a man who praises Arpaio as a champion of the rule of law, is either totally craven or off his rocker. Pence is a wily politician, highly regarded in his party. But he's not decent.
I doubt we would have ever seen McCain in a similar position.
The real McCain, if he ever existed, would never have voted for the tax bill. But even he is corrupted by money and power. SAD!
I remember when Republicans used to be willing to give a little, Dems would give a little, and maybe they'd reach a compromise that would make a bill nobody loved but everyone could live with.
But that started being murdered by Jesse Helms, then Newt Gingrich, then the Tea Party, and finally, Mitch McConnell, setting the stage for Trump.
McCain is part of the last gasp of the one-time decency.
Oh, yes, let's celebrate the man who inflicted Sarah Palin on our country, arguably the first pure form over substance politician on the national scene. That was his first decision as his party's candidate and he proved then and there how flawed and cynical his judgment was. Just because he will not be with us much longer is no reason to white wash his career.
Let's expand on that thought: If Obama had brokered a deal with North Korea, then we would not be dancing in the street, but instead Mr Trump would have called it the "worst deal ever!"
I know I don't deserve John McCain. I deserve someone who doesn't want endless war paid for by a combination of hurting poor people and sheer fantasy. And that's without mentioning the death and destruction. Just because Trump is a new and unique kind of horrible doesn't mean we should rehabilitate any conservative who dislikes him. Trump didn't invent horrible.
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The same with George W Bush. Bad people who look good when compared to Trump are still bad people.
George W Bush made sure that Medicare could NOT negotiate lower prices with Pharma companies.
Oh he was big on tax breaks for the rich.
Oh and there was this really bad idea of the Iraq war.
Thanks for nothing, George!
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Since when is Lithuania an embattled country? Or Tunisia for that matter, Brett!
Senator McCain has proved himself to be a master of contradictions. While he has great backbone at times, he seems to cave at others. Why is he not standing up to the atrocity that is Donald Trump and his administration? He survived being a POW, and became a lawmaker. Why is he not shouting out now, when he's got least to lose?
A little sentimentalized. Who was it who wrote that McCain was a man of definite—if rather selective—principle? (Elizabeth Drew, I think.) His vote to save [what was left of] the ACA was genuinely remarkable, but chiefly because he'd shown so little of his legendary "character" on important matters for several years previously, voting against anything Obama was for, voting for anything that would immiserate the already miserable.
If Trump was a POW and was offered the chance to return home while his fellow POWs languished, there is no doubt in my mind what his decision would have been. He is ALWAYS about himself. And that is the reason he had bone spurs in the first place.
Interesting conversation, but this administration has no "good" weeks.There is always the egotistical, self serving showman in the Oval Office.Lies and insults are the order of the day so each day is cloudy with the threat of a thunderstorm.John McCain is just a little younger then I am.He spent precious years of his youth defending this country, enduring imprisonment and exhibiting true bravery when he was offered release and refused until his men could go with him.He has been bold and brave and has been the conscience of the Senate.We are all in debt to him.
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Take McCain off the agenda , once and for all. He never deserved the privilege and attention he managed to focus on himself, and it was all about himself.
I admire many things about Senator McCain, but until he apologizes to Janet Reno and Chelsea Clinton for the horrible "joke" he made 20 years ago I will never respect the man. And, no, it was not enough to apologize to Bill Clinton. Chelsea is not her father's property.
Why do you people insist on deifying this guy? He is the one who thought Sarah Palin was prepared to be president. That is unforgivable, and her presence on the ticket is a major reason we have no meaningful political discourse today. This was his decision.
The boundary lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage.
--- Psalm 16:6
Before McCain passes, he’ll have the solace and satisfaction of knowing that he was loved and respected by many people, served his country well and had successfully faced-down adversities in life that would have crippled many other people.
A goodly heritage indeed. One that all of us could wish for ourselves.
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I find it ironic that I agree with both of you regarding John McCain. Over the years I have stayed consistently moderate in my politics and could have voted for John McCain because of his campaign finance reform with Feingold.
What stopped me was the sellout to the right wing GOP when he let them pick Sarah Palin. It made me sick to think that she could become President. Just like it makes me sick to think that Mike Pence will probably soon be President.
See??? Perfectly moderate...where is Nelson Rockefeller when you need him!!
Trump and his cohorts are a true abomination. Having said that, I don't think McCain deserves the high praise apart from an occasional "good job". Yes, he fought for the country, yes he is a sane voice in the currently corrosive GOP environment and stuff like that.
But he also drew national attention upon the most cynical and corrosive element of all : Sarah Palin. I see Palin's involvement in national politics has having started a landslide toward abysmal behavior. Now it is a race to the bottom within the GOP. McCain accelerated that process. Another question to ask is if he abhors Trump because he displayed no respect for McCain or if he dislikes him because he (Trump) is simply an indecent person?
How did they get from considering McCain to excoriating the president. Never mind. I am proud to have voted for Senator McCain four times (twice in NY primaries; manning phones for him in one of them). He is a hero, not for flying an attack plane against N Viet (his job -- we don't want a mutinous military, do we), not for getting shot down, not for being a POW for all those years, but for surviving inhumane and indecent treatment by the vicious N Vietnamese, then turning around and saying we should normalize relations with them. He lives up to the standard set by Edmund Burke for legislators, though he isn't always correct. He mismanaged his 08 run and I am not sure how effective an executive he would have been. Wish we knew. Oh, I didn't vote for the president last time (or his principal opponant), because he does indulge in loutish behavior, but I think his ideas deserve a chance.
With the exception of the last year John McCain always pretended to be the voice of reason but then he always voted on the side of the hard right. Whether you agreed or not he was a totally reliable voter in that way.
Excuse me, but isn’t this the same McCain that selected Sarah Palin as a running mate for his presidential campaign? In a sense, McCain perpetuated the same populist, vapid, scorched-earth politics of today with this Trump prototype. It’s so interesting that he is now seen as a moderating force in the Republican Party. While I agree that he seems like a decent man—for a Republican—maybe he’s just the veneer on a political institution in deep decay.
We definitely deserve such a flawed and oftentimes flailing hero. Heedless, brash and protected by his father's position, crashing more planes than anyone, yet proving his undeniable mettle as a prisoner of war. Breaking with his party when he felt it was important, yet kissing up to bank money as a member of the Keating 5. Standing on principle but desperate to be President, selling his beliefs and pandering to the public with the utterly unqualified (and unqualified failure) of Palin. A man with angels and demons, for sure. The only clear political legacy he leaves is of a man who could have been great- but traded everything he stood for in grasping for it.
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Your comment encapsulates the same (conflicted) way that I feel about McCain's legacy.
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I have spent my life at the other end of the political spectrum, but I still have immense respect for John McCain. I fear for this country, and we need more like him to save our republic.
I always had respect for McCain for being an increasingly rare example of principles above party. But he also caved and chose Sarah Palin as a running mate. So in the end political expediency and posturing still held significant sway.
Overall I hope his example inspires some spinal bone growth in our modern politics... but I'm not holding my breath. Sigh.
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"....there was always a seriousness of purpose, and a quality of self-deprecation, and a basic decency to everything he did." I know many women and men who would be honoured to be described in these words.
And, they stand in stark contrast to what is happening in the current administration.
How I miss these very basic qualities in the current administration.
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As someone with a centrist ideology, I find myself having to constantly re-calibrate how I regarded people in politics over the last few years versus now. I have come to recognize and esteem public servants who show the basics of ethics and respect, regardless of their ideology. It has become a whole new nostalgia for me. John McCain is such an example.
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While Senator McCain was very much a hero in captivity — and I am sad that he is dying —in recent years he has been anything but the hero. He 1) impulsively chose Sarah Palin, opening up the door for ‘alternative truths’ and Trump, 2) eventually endorsed Donald Trump (finally rescinding his endorsement after the Access Hollywood tapes) and 3) voted with Trump 94% of the time. Thus, history will remember him not as heroic but as an Trump enabler who contributed significantly to our national decline.
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Sadly true. A real hero that ultimately bent to the demands of his party. A really good example of why we need term limits. I do believe a respectable number of people enter politics intending to do good,but the political environment overwhelms them.
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very well said.
The idealization of Mr McCain is understandable as anticipated eulogy. But the reality is far more complex. As a model of surviving and recovering from horrific trauma his story is inspiriting. But he romanization of war heroism is a means to manipulated primitive emotions in individuals for the sake of controlling them to do the bidding of the state. It directly leads to suppression of free thought and expression. It also plants the seeds of populism that culminates in trumpism, nationalism, fascism, authoritarianism. The respect we give people who are truly principled and willing to make sacrifices for the their principles is hypocritical - since we only respect those whose principles we agree with. And Mr McCain may not be as principled as he is being portrayed. His choice of Sara Pailin was either a cynical appeasement of the populist streak in the GOP, or a manifestation of his own populist streak. Either way - it legitimized hare-brained populism as an electoral force on the far right and the far left. Trump and Sanders are a consequence of McCain's choice.
Nevertheless - all things being equal - we are better off dealing with McCain's GOP than with Trump's.
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Yes, indeed. Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake are excellent successors to John McCain. All talk and no action.
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Whatever his shortcomings, I will miss John McCain when he's gone. We would benefit from more men like him in "the arena". I retain some real reservations about McCain's role in the "Keating Five" bribery scandal in 1990s (McCain was formally cleared of wrongdoing but cited for "poor judgement" by his peers), but believe he made amends for this in his subsequent focus on campaign finance including passage of the McCain-Feingold Act in early 2000s. I also recall being pained a bit my McCain's triangulation leading up to 2016 elections. Nobody's perfect - but McCain compares favorably to vast majority of his colleagues in the Senate
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Trump probably had it leaked and said not to apologize.
After that, no Republican dare take on Trump.
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Bret Stephens criticizing Bill Bennett for criticizing George Will for criticizing Mike Pence for not criticizing Joe Arpaio. Wow. So much winning Gotta love modern conservatism.
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McCain has had his moments of heroism. He also has often been, frankly, a lot of hot air, which then collapsed into an empty sack. I say this with no disrespect to the fact that he is now approaching the end of his days: we are all fallible, and he has, indeed, often stood alone in his fallible integrity above a chamber full of colleague who were unapologetically venal, corrupt, and shockingly hypocritical.
His heroism as a POW was real, and I get the sense that he spent the rest of his life trying to live up to his own reputation, unsure of how to do that, and, as a political thinker, not intellectually capable of the necessary nuance. His self-identification with the Armed Forces led him into many poor decisions; and there will never be an excuse for his appalling bad judgment in choosing Sarah Palin as his running mate. Never.
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Sorry Bret, but Senator Sasse isn't "profoundly opposed to the President". He's voted for every one of Trumps cabinet and judicial nominees, and hasn't taken a meaningful stand on anything Trump has said or done; even on tariffs, which will hurt his constituents, he raises some fake bluster, and then falls into line as always. He's a fraud, a charming version of Ted Cruz who votes the same way Cruz does as well.
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Why was Susan Collins of Maine overlooked in the accounting of great senators?
And Mr. Stephens' apparent willingness to re-embrace Republicanism if Mr. Trump gets the well-deserved boot glosses over the party's obeisance to abhorrent political positions and practices. Republican politicians have adopted bigotry and misogyny as fundamental levers of power, preferring to attack, undermine, scapegoat, marginalize and oppress anyone who is not a white Christian male in order to delegitimize any threat to their own power. Republicans rely on disinformation and ginning up fear and frenzy against some convenient 'other' to win elections, and have been driven into a Trumpian corner as a result.
And they have proven themselves eager to betray the country rather than admit their failings. Their assault on healthcare for the most vulnerable among us was nothing more than a gleeful death sentence for the poor. The tax bill will foist trillions of dollars of debt on the middle class and their children while the corporate vacuum up the wealth of the country. From Mitch McConnell making up his own Constitution in order to deny Merrick Garland a vote to Devin Nunes colluding with this wretched president to ignore, deny and cover up the Trump campaign's danse macabre with the Russians through the heart of our electoral system, there appears to be no limit whatsoever to Republicans' willingness to put self-interest above all other considerations.
That, not Trump, is the GOP poison
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William Bennett is still around? One of my all-time favorite quips was about Bennett. During the Clinton years he was on television night after night denouncing Clinton and the growing majority of Americans who supported him during his impeachment and trial. Finally, some wag commented, "Bennett's American People are so bad he needs to find a whole new people."
Looks like Bennett has.
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I do love this back and forth between you two. Please keep it up!!!
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So Brett. How about you and David Brooks beat the drum for a new party made up of moderates in the population and moderates int the Congress (not that there are many left).
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This is even more disheartening after the wholesale violence in Gaza over a move only evangelicals have prayed for as a sign of the second coming of god, or the end of the world as we know it. Ivanka and Jared are presiding over disaster with huge smiles and empty minds, and the president is counting the days down to the death of his biggest foe. How did we get to this point where moral bankruptcy is solid currency for getting ahead in American politics? And as much as we all hope something good comes out of the North Korean summit, exactly what have the North Koreans and Chinese been discussing so intensely leading up to it? Frightening and interesting days ahead.
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Regarding the Sadler leak: Gail repeats Sarah Sanders’ complaint that the leak is the most significant part of this story. I was always taught that integrity is determined by what one does when out of public sight. A clear indication that this administration has none.
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It's worth recalling that a major reason that McCain lost that South Carolina primary in 2000 was that good old W; took a page from his father's racist Willie Horton campaign ad (and that his wonderful mother Barbara never seemed to have any trouble with) and ran ads accusing McCain of fathering a black child out of wedlock. As Norman Mailer once said, that's the kind of things that go down as easily in the south as Dr. Pepper.
I would love to see Trump speak at McCain's memorial service. How often do you get to hear a speaker denigrate the departed. I remember how Groucho Marx, returning from his brother Chico's funeral where a rabbi who didn't know him gave generic compliments, let loose with a number of derogatory comments about Chico.
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I appreciate the decent remarks about John McCain. But what I cannot understand is this singling him out. He doesn't have a monopoly on decency. He has good manners, but he's been as ruthless a politician as anyone you can name. He has garnered attention by his illness, his senority in the Senate and his being a foil to Trump. But none of those things mean that he is some sort of last bastion of anything. It might mean that seeing death loom gives a person more nerve, but I like to think that's not true.
Having the "leaks" provides cover for trump and stirs the proverbial pot, something he is adept at and uses as a frequent ploy. It works well as the media shifts its focus away from what he is doing behind the curtain.
4
What political ideal does John McCain embody? The ideal of voting consistently as a far right wing ideologue while claiming to be a moderate while personally enriching oneself while inflicting Sarah Palin on the country?
Yeah, I know he behaved honorably in captivity. But I send no tears for McCain the senator.
3
You forgot about his vote to go to Iraq and this recent vote for "Tax Cuts for the Rich". Trillions of dollars wasted while claiming to be a fiscally responsible conservative.
1
Without reading the article, he voted for the tax cut. Enough said.
5
We don't deserve John McCain, we deserve better. A decent and honorable man, he almost always votes the wrong way.
9
John McCain was and is as much a part of the swamp as anyone in DC. The fact that he endured some horrible things in Viet Nam does not make him a saint.
1
John McCain is a good soul and has been a good voice from time to time, but that is as far as it goes. The choice of Sarah Palin is an example of why. Another is his tendency to put an over-reliance on his status as a veteran and a former POW, as opposed to the quality of his thinking, to draw attention to his position on issues. Trump deflates the pomposity, effectively I think, by pointing out that McCain was captured, which is no doubt politically incorrect but also rather amusing.
"I think we have to admit that if Barack Obama had gotten this far with North Korea, we’d be dancing in the streets."
Thanks Gail for a modicum of fairness.
People who condemn Trump for his various mistakes suddenly become blind and deaf when something he did works out. Trump-hatred has become so intense.
And this trait does not hurt Trump. HIS approval rating has now gone up from 35% to 42%. It just means that as time passes _I_ have fewer and fewer rational people to talk to.
3
l always remember when John McCain corrected a lady about then senator Obama was in fact born in the United States. He was a stand up guy then and still is. How can the people who support trump allow him and his staff to say anything mean about McCain?
2
This is supposed to be a serious news organization and yet, your two writers judge and describe politicians based on their marketing campaigns and phony speeches, not their voting records. Get back to the fats and it's easier to understand who all these people ARE, because in the end we ARE the accumulation of our actions not the echo of our words.
1
I remember clearly that the McCain-Palin campaign and Republican establishment spent months dog-whistling about Obama's race and religion before that woman made her comment at a campaign stop. McCain seemed terribly embarrassed when she echoed that message in plain language. That was an appropriate response, but only looks like "best moment" given what that campaign season unleashed in the following elections.
2
Sorry if I don't pile on the accolades for McCain who is as Republican as he can get and has voted in lock step with the GOP's manipulation of our nation's resources for the benefit of the wealthiest 1% and corporation.
1
I remember seeing the news video of John McCain at the 2008 Minnesota Republican rally where the elderly woman said about Barack Obama "He is a Arab". While I was happy that Sen. McCain did not use what was becoming a standard Republican fear line as a reply, his words: "No, he is a decent family man" said directly to her with a gentle voice weren't the correct response either. It is likely nearly all "Arab" citizens of the US count as "decent family men" --more today than current president of the US.
Sen McCain deserves praise for his persistence, his loyalty to what have become obsolete virtues within his party and his authenticity which only the 2008 campaign tarnished. Gail Collins spoke about the lonely 2000 NH campaign which endeared Sen.McCain to many people who were not fans of his politics. Trump pretends to be real; John McCain actually is a real person who is a politician too.
And that is my issue with the "too much, too wrong"of the praise given to Sen. McCain as he fights his brain tumor. As a country, it seems to me, we are praising him for the wrong reasons and at the wrong time of his life. Many of us will never forgive nor forget the choice of Sarah Palin as VP candidate; his petulant choice put the national security of the country he loves at risk. He supported McConnell's delay in filling the SCOTUS seat and Gorsuch. One vote to uphold the ACA doesn't balance others. Praise Sen. McCain for his real virtues and actions; don't use empty words.
1
Yours is a party without shame, Mr Stephens. This may be the worst presidency in history, but it's not long since the second-worst presidency poured gasoline on the middle-east fire, and undercut American credibility for a generation. I thought your party would close up shop after Bush but obviously not.
We tend to like anyone Trump picks on, but in fact, it was McCain who said the GOP Senate would not consider any Supreme Court nominee from Hillary Clinton...possibly a worse attack on the Constitution than anything Trump has done (yet).
2
Oh please. What had John McCain accomplished in his career? McCain-Feingold?
He's been a cheerleader for endless war and he brought us Sarah Palin.
Always saying the right thing and then doing the wrong thing, that's how I'll remember john McCain.
3
It is the spineless Republicans who who did not deserve a colleague like John McCain. They eventually supported and endorsed him even after his disparaging remarks about Senator McCain. It is they who now deserve their party's debased standard bearer who has plunged us into this national nightmare. We would never be here today had they not renounced his candidacy from the very beginning of the race and thrown him off the debate stage in solidarity with their heroic colleague.
1
Correction: " they eventually endorsed and supported Donald Trump..."
I appreciate all of his service but have a giant pause when you see he is one of the highest if not THE highest receiver of NRA monies. In the millions. Don't think that he could be as reasonable as he otherwise makes out to be
3
The Republican senators mentioned favorably here generally whine a lot, write books about how independent they are, and then vote like all the rest.
2
I truly don't understand the veneration John McCain has started to receive in these last few months. A man of principle. A statesman. A good man we don't deserve.
Yet this man is the same one who, after being told, "I like people who don't get captured" supported, enabled, and appeased the most unfit president in our nation's history.
John McCain may have been a man of principle, once - but he abandoned them in fear out of Republican voters. How is that something we deserve?
4
John McCain has always stood out as an honorable man among thieves. He is a credit to our country and as his life comes to a close it maybe his finest hour. When Trump denigrated McCain for being shot down, captured, tortured for 5 long years I wanted to cry for the decency being lost. Yes the man with the bone spurs was no where near the fighting so of course he couldn't be captured. I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary. His motto was 'straight talk express' and he is still at it. But one man cannot save the Republican Party.
Gail thanks for the shout out for Lincoln Chaffee, I believe he was the only Republican to vote against going into Iraq. His father was an admirable man, Republican and long term senator from RI; I always voted for him. Lincoln was forced from the Republic party. The Chaffee's are an old historical Republican family. The likes of both Chaffee's are no more and soon we will loose John McCain.
2
Was that last quip, suggesting possible authoritarian rule or Armageddon, supposed to be funny? As the mother of a son of draftable age, I'm not laughing.
1
McCain is a criminal for his support of 2017 Republican Tax Reform. One of the greatest wealth transfers from the not wealth to the wealthy in United States history.
4
John McCain's political hero may be Teddy Roosevelt, but the two have little in common. Roosevelt, a great conservationist, established national parks, forests, and monuments to preserve the nation's natural resources. He attacked corruption while limiting corporate influence. McCain says he accepts global warming, and since most Republicans won't accept scientific fact, it makes him seem far more principled than he is. In 2005 Republicans prepared to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas drilling, attaching the provision to a military appropriations bill. McCain gave full support since it involved military spending. McCain never met a bill giving billions to the military industrial complex that he didn't love. Teddy Roosevelt was instrumental in the foundation of the National Wildlife Refuge System; the basis of the Endangered Species Act. McCain repeatedly set aside Endangered Species Act protections if they conflicted with the desires of big business. Roosevelt's is famous for anti-corruption reforms, specifically corporate corruption and bribery. McCain was the ringleader of the Keating Five, a corruption and graft scheme where Charles Keating, a billionaire banker, gave McCain and his family millions of dollars in "gifts," and McCain arranged for Keating's Lincoln Savings and Loan to be bailed out at a cost of $3.4 billion to taxpayers. It's sad that McCain is dying; it's incredibly sad that he's the best Republicans could offer over the last 50 years.
2
This is the kind of breezy cheesy banter that nauseates anyone with a good stomach and wants real food. A performance of the first order! Yes, we have dialogue where the mature and the educated can chide each other on fine points but hold hands at the end. Sure we have problems but our way of life is never in question.
2
Rare occurrence: Brett gets best closing line. Will there be a next time? Probably, but no thanks to Trump whose disasters ranged from the cosmic [welching on the Iran deal] to the ridiculous [Pres. Bone Spurs refuses to allow an apology]. Although he swerved to the right to get re-elected, McCain is otherwise an amazingly decent human being. Given the Senate, it's stunning he survived this long. Go in peace, good and faithful servant.
1
I love John McCain -and the reasons have been stated in this article quite well. I would have voted for him for president, but for his running mate Palin. But honestly, he, like Lyndon Johnson, were the men I wanted to remain in the Senate or House, because they would negotiate to get things done rather than have some attitude of "my way or the highway". I would like, in the future, us to work towards overturning the Supreme Court decision that allowed big political donors to have more sway than voters. I want people to be able to donate to a candidate in reasonable amounts, so that no longer will the NRA or ATT get to hold candidates "accountable" AS OPPOSED TO VOTERS. Our current President has no basic ethics. He seems to feel that he can lie, cheat or steal if it serves his purpose, and, with impunity. He seems to admire dictators more than any other type of leader. He really is not in favor of democracy. John McCain is the exact opposite. We need more John McCains and fewer Turmps!
3
Bravo, both of you. Thank you for a spirited, thoughtful and polite debate.
1
Half of our population didn't deserve Mr. Mccain.
Yes, he was a war hero, yes, some of his political actions were courageous. But not towards women.
His views and actions on women's rights to access to health care were prejudiced and sexist.
He opposed public funding for poor women to have access to contraception; he opposed health insurance for contraception.
He opposed women's choices, except in cases rape and incest, presumably proved in court within 12 weeks of the crime. So in actuality, never.
If he had the same health care legislative history for, say, African Americans, he would be vilified.
3
I cannot respect a person who's entire political career has been devoted to saying one thing then doing the opposite (just like the rest of them). With few exceptions, he has voted FOR every Republican initiative, no matter how detrimental to the country he says he loves. Taxes, healthcare, guns, etc. etc. etc. Now after condemning torture, he is going to vote yes for an enthusiastic torturer to run the CIA.
3
Life long Democrat who liked and respected John McCain. Got angry at him for Sarah Palin but he restored my faith when he corrected that woman during the campaign. Wish there were more people like him in congress who would be prepared to stand up for American values.
19
From a Canadian perspective, it's impossible to know what "American values" are any more, at least in the positive sense.
4
That's how some of us here feel as well.
Independent-thinking, decent, honest politicians like John McCain are a thing of the past, ironically a direct result of Citizen's United. I often disagreed with his positions, but I never doubted his sincerity or courage.
Yesterday alone, not a single voice from Congress about the tragic, pointless pandering to Netanyahu that stains both Israel and the US. Not a single objection to Trump's pledge to help China's ZTE, a complete reversal of his campaign rhetoric.
We are getting the government we deserve, I guess, but I'd welcome an invitation to raise the bar to John McCain's standard.
7
I enjoy the conversation, and look forward to it continuing. But as I listen to Republicans like Mr. Stephens, and John McCain, when he was active, I am surprised by the disconnect to the Republican Party progression from Reagan to today. As if somehow, this is a new party being run by strangers.
3
I am a far left liberal at this point, but I am happy to read the perspectives of two Republican (in exile?) reporters. I can’t forgive John McCain for Sarah Palin, but I am in awe of his service in Vietnam. Knowing what he endured, conquered, and is now enduring; I don’t think I could ever go through those things and be as stalwart as he has been. I also appreciate that he’s taken a stand against Trump, particularly in front if the cameras, and knowing the tweet storm that will result. I admire his old-world political style, his patriotism, and his service to our country.
9
Two Republican reporters? Who? Stephens is conservative, but Gail Collins is a liberal.
My bad. I meant A conservative. Didn't drink my coffee before posting this morning.
The leaking is a symptom of the state of the administration. If the meeting was full of people dedicated to the same political or social causes who are there to promote those causes, there would be no incentive to invite negative attention (except perhaps to call out wrongdoing after proper channels have been exhausted).
That this is clearly not the case says that Trump has no interest in creating such an environment, or that he cannot attract enough people sincerely aligned with his agenda who have the proper experience and character to take these positions. If it is the latter, it is also fair to wonder if such people exist.
5
I have just finished reading "Only Yesterday" by Frederick Lewis Allen and am now reading "The Perils of Prosperity" by Leichtenberg, both chronicles of the 1920s. The parallels to today's politics are almost overwhelming.
John McCain is essentially from the Republican party of the 1950s. There are few like him in that or any party today.
3
Good. He can stay in the 1950s. That's where all the problems began, not in the 1960s. It was in the 1950s where Americans began to believe they were entitled to unbridled prosperity.
In this conversation, Gail Collins and Bret Stephens exemplify the insight that, "intellectuals are the shoe shine boys of the ruling class."
9
McCain understood that nobody can have the world as they might want it to be but trying to make where he lived more civil was worth the effort. He did have a temper and he had strong feelings that made him something less than a saint but he has been a good person overall. We never have too many people like him.
3
I'm confused why the man who gave us Sarah Palin (the gateway drug to Trump) should be respected by anyone.
13
Then read about his service in Vietnam. Agree Palin was not his best moment but in a lifetime of service to America, he can be allowed one mistake, which he has acknowledged.
Let's define someone who devoted his life to service of his country by one act you don't like. Ridiculous...shall we define you by any of the bad decisions you've ever made? Off your high horse and quickly!
McCain votes for Trump’s agenda 83% of the time. I’m going to miss him 17%.
34
I'm sure it's as obvious to Bret as it is to the rest of us who are old enough to remember that Bill Bennett was always a hypocritical self-appointed moralizer who rode self-righteousness to the bank. In the linked column, Bennett makes it seem like Pence was merely being "decent" by recognizing and greeting Joe Arpaio in his Phoenix audience. In fact Pence went far beyond any obligatory politeness, calling Arpaio a "tireless champion of strong borders and the rule of law" (which most of us thought means obeying direct court orders) and declaring “Sheriff Joe Arpaio, I’m honored to have you here.” Bennett's readers, on the other hand, learned that Pence was criticized for "the sin of recognizing Arpaio in the audience" and for his "humility and decorum." Classic pure Bennett. We're all lucky to have him mostly off the stage.
22
McCain is in the line of legislators with Gerald Ford, Daniel Moynihan, Everett Dirksen, Margaret Chase Smith, people who figured out how to do the best for the country, even if it took less bombast and more compromise. I miss them.
6
Well people and nations can be redeemed. We are at a nadir, but hopefully we won’t sink much lower.
Buckle your seatbelt. With this administration, so much is wrong, and everyday seems to bring a new "low", if not several. I have no confidence that this will change. Alot of damage has been done during Trump's first term in office. Who knows where we'll be after three more years? It's not looking very good.
John McCain, like the rest of us, will leave a mixed legacy, except that, in his case, historians and the rest of society will scrutinize that record. Compared to Trump, of course, almost anyone would enjoy a reputation for integrity, but the senator shines in isolation, even without juxtaposition to the hollow man. His military record, combined with his conduct on the campaign trail, mark him as a man of both physical and political courage.
While I do not share his political agenda or his militaristic approach to foreign policy, I admire his refusal to emulate the tendency of many other Republicans to rely on a thinly-veiled racist appeal in their electoral campaigns. His unwavering, principled rejection of torture as an interrogation technique, moreover, reflects a similar respect for the dignity of other human beings, even when buffeted by a powerful temptation to display a different attitude.
I will not miss Mr. McCain's political priorities, but we should all mourn the loss of the kind of politician the Founding Fathers envisioned when they maintained that only people of virtue could ensure the success of the Constitution.
7
Amazing how wise and restrained McCain and, for that matter, George W. now seem.
5
Please, no. McCain, who was tortured, voted to allow torture after 9/11.. He voted FOR the AUMF and FOR the tragic american war on Iraq, in 2003. He introduced us to the ridiculousness of Sarah Palin, a real new low, at the time, for politics. And what happened on the Fitzgerald - did he cause a horrible accident, while landing his plane, and then run off to his Admiral daddy and never speak to the wounded again? McCain as far as I am concerned, spent much of his life a gigolo, wearing nice suits to look good for his fabulously wealthy wife. How many homes do you own, McCain? I see no reason to see him as some kind of vaunted, extra-moral human being. He is mostly just human being, to me.
17
Somewhat agree. People, even Gail Collins, love to have a hero. We don't need another hero, as the song goes, just a steady worker for social justice and peace. I am thinking of Patty Murray at the moment. Still I would choose McCain in a flash over the Trumplestiltskin.
2
The McCain who existed prior to his loss in the Presidential election of 2000. Since that time, he has become a RINO who has been a major disrupter in the Party. Since the 2008 loss to obama, most of his decisions have been based on personal pique. His personal animosity toward President Trump is clearly evident. He puts personal issues before the good of the Country.
9
Oh please. Because a man has principles, and votes his conscience....which doesn't include voting in line 100% of the time with Republicans, you're calling him a 'RINO'.
If someone votes with his party 85% of the time, as McCain did....he's not a RINO.
Do the math, please.
Let us not take deserved respect and timely appreciation for Senator McCain's words, ideas and deeds too far into the realm of the irrational.
The "straight-talking express" had seriously derailed by the time of the "cakewalk" to Baghdad, aka as the "greatest foreign policy disaster in US history," and has been repeatedly stalled in rusted sidings from then until rather recently. It is very welcome to see it now solidly back on track, slow-moving but in splendid form on its final journey, but what a tragic loss of a decade and half in between, including the inexcusable waffling episodes during the 2016 presidential campaign.
9
So determined are the pundits to continue the validation of both parties in the two party illusion of democracy, that they lionize the man who put Sarah Palin within a heartbeat of the presidency, and despite a brief quibble over senate procedure, McCain has supported almost every one of Trump's atrocious acts as president.
So much for the "resistance". I knew that once the "resistance" bumped up against the demands of the rich, the former would be shelved.
34
"So determined are the pundits to continue the validation of both parties in the two party illusion of democracy, . . ."
kinda sums it up nicely. The whole military, industrial, Congressional and media hegemony depends upon maintaining the illusion of a functioning democracy. Or so they seem to think. I posit we are in for a bit of a rougher ride going forward since our ruling class of billionaires are starting to flex their muscle to see just how far they can take the country. They are doubting that the limits of the illusion are enough to restrain them and with the ability to hire and fire governments at will, I fear they are right.
6
Gail and Bret, your Conversation is such a highlight. Loved this one!
4
"Among Republicans, the most promising senator is Nebraska’s Ben Sasse. He’s smart, interesting, young and profoundly opposed to the president."
Bret, you once again continue to make sweeping proclamations with no evidence to back them up. Sasse has voted with President Trump 87% of the time. It's not just rhetoric that matters.
32
Republicans started losing all sense of decency when John Kerry's military record was "swiftboated" in the 2004 election. The lie was allowed to stand by George W. Bush. To have people applaud Trump when he said of John McCain during the 2016 campaign that he "liked people who didn't get captured" signaled a new era of coarseness which has defined this presidency.
I have not agreed politically with John McCain on many issues, but I have always considered him a decent, moral, honorable man for whom I have the utmost respect. I have no such respect whatsoever for the draft-dodging vulgarian occupying the White House right now, whose only mission seems to be to undo whatever President Obama did.
As for meeting with Kim-Jong-un, the jury is out on that summit, until we see what comes of it. Trump has been played by Putin, it remains to be seen if he will be played by Kim-Jong-un as well.
32
John McCain's kind of leadership is the exception these days in not just politics, but in the corporate world, hollywood, wall street, pretty much in every aspect of american culture today.
2
Enough. Look I'm very sorry that John McCain has cancer, and I accept the fact that he demonstrated great heroism while a captive in N Vietnam when he refused early release, but sense then it has been the normal run of the mill political rightwing shenanigans, which he has gone along with 99.99% of the time.
It is at this point that I jump off the McCain bandwagon. John McCain's voting record speaks for itself (google it). I believe he is one of the top Senators as to NRA contributions, and let's not forget the Keating 5 debacle.
To my detractors, yes, he stopped the ACA from going down, but implementing commonsense and real Christian values just do not constitute heroism, maybe good citizenry.
He and Blake had the opportunity, without cost to them, in Jan 2017 to go independent and caucus with the Dems, thereby, creating a check on DJT. They did not but voted with DJT 99.99%, allowed a radical SCOTUS judge on board....
79
A single Republican acts with decency, common sense, and doesn't deny basic science so we put him on a pedestal and call him great. Maybe the bar for being a good Republican is just really, really low.
8
McCain may have been honorable with his “he’s not an Arab” approach to running, but what did it get us, practically? Two liberal Supreme Court justices and a whole host of similarly awful lower court judges, Obamacare, higher taxes, more regulation and 8 years of “spread the wealth around” and “you didn’t build that.” Honorable yes, but at great cost to the country.
5
What did it get you? Let's do a nonrevisionist review of the immediate past administration. Two well-qualified, legitimate Supreme Court selections (your dislike of their ideology not withstanding), appellate and lower court judges who passed ABA review and actually know the legal system (unlike some of 45's truly awful picks), rescued this country from the financial catastrophe triggered by GW's deregulations and two trillion dollar Iraq debacle, saved GM and millions of jobs, made healthcare more accessible, and conducted himself with a grace, eloquence. elegance and intelligence rare in most individuals, much less presidents. Yeah, Nobel Peace Laureate was such a bad POTUS
1
Hard to die without regrets. Hard to eulogize when a man is still alive. Right now, I wish the Senator well. I will always remember him as a flawed hero, as all heroes are. I will also remember him as a callous, cynical, power-hungry politician who legitimatized the horror of Sarah Palin and the poisonous power she helped shape and unleash.
27
I am with Bret wishing Trump out of office with his shameless attitudes to be gone for good from political arena.
On McCain when running for Presidency was when he stood up for his opponent Barack Obama when an ignorant woman dared to malign him.
McCain was a great Senator , not long ago when Huma Abedin`s character was questioned on the Senate floor, John McCain stood up and defended her.
His worse moment choosing Sarah Palin as his running mate.
Every time trump refuses to apologize for his insults to MaCain he reduces himself .
And his intense jealousy toward our twice elected President Obama will be his downfall.
12
This man is probably responsible for putting more American soldiers in harms way than any other elected official currently serving in office. McCain loves war the way Ronald Reagan loved jelly beans.
In fact, when you think about, McCain has been unsuccessful in most of his political objectives save for one: putting our kids in harms way. He could not get elected president. He could not stop Obama from turning the country around. He could not save George Bush from himself (either one of them). And Trump treats him like a cheap suitcase...
Mostly, I feel sorry for the guy. Save for the prisoner of war thing he's kind of a joke...
7
"I do find the way everybody in the White House appears to be out to destroy everybody else mind-boggling."
Can you be that naive about human personality and social dynamics, Gail? Look to the top: an egomaniac out to serve his own needs, which include creating divisiveness in service of chaos, the latter being the perfect smoke screen for his incompetence and malfeasance. Add to that the choices of personnel, which trickle down from the top: more self-serving, soulless narcissists and self-dealers. And, what person of integrity would want to work in this White House or its cabinet? The Trump White House is Reality TV, not public service: selfish climbers backstabbing and strutting.
And you're surprised?
5
Bret Stephens, Republican in exile. What would he like to see? "Trump out of office. Sincere Republican penance for electing this lout as our president and debasing our collective moral currency."
But, alas, when will congressional Republicans hear his alarm and hold Trump accountable? Don't hold your breath.
2
Gail is close to something when she avoids those Democrats seeking the presidential nomination in 2020. We should avoid anyone who supported Hillary, meaning supported the Clinton Machine--and the NYT was part of that machine. Because that's what gave us Trump. This isn't intended to be so much an anti-Hillary comment and an anti-machine comment. Trump campaigned against the Republican Machine and won, and we need a Democrat who will run against the old Democratic Machine, and this machine includes Warren, Biden, Gillebrand et al.
2
Picking Sarah Palin and establishing the perception that bozos could run for office was hardly ideal. Indeed America did not deserve that.
Oh. stop it. We've gotten to the point where when a politician finally does the right thing (when it's way too late) he's a saint and we don't deserve him? America deserves better than Republicans. Period.
33
What kind of week did Trump have? Roll tape! With the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem, and the killing of the Iran Deal Shakespeare might have been referring to Trump's activities and not those of Julius Caesar when he wrote, "Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!"
John McCain doesn't deserve the hagiography that people are heaping on him.
At the 2004 Republican National Convention, while the Republicans were busy "Swift Boating" John Kerry, many people showed up wearing "Purple Heart Band-Aids". There's a rather famous photo of a smiling Republican convention-goer wearing one on her face.
John McCain, doing his duty to support George W. Bush's bid for re-election., came to the Hudson, New Hampshire VFW hall. While he was there, I had the opportunity to speak to him about the Purple Heart Band-Aids. He wouldn't decry them, even to me privately. Apparently, it was perfectly fair to mock a man (John Kerry) who had won a Purple Heart if doing so would support to support another man whose military service consisted of going AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard.
I'm pretty sure that on that day, I met the real John McCain.
13
What exactly is there to celebrate about McCain's political life? As a prisoner of war- he demands our immediate reverence and gratitude
The last 2 things I remember about McCain was picking Sarah palin and at the end of his career with nothing to lose - not being the voice of reason within the current party
He's political like the rest and his last 10 years have been pathetic
8
There is no "next John McCain." But if we are going to try to find one, I nominate Tammy Duckworth.
5
If you were a gray wolf (or any other important native predator) you would not nominate Duckworth for anything. She'd like to see them all exterminated, or the nearest legal approximation thereof. Ms. Duckworth is no friend to wildlife. Constituents of hers who cherish whole ecosystems, complete with native predators such as gray wolves, should call the Senator and let her know.
1
A John McCain with true compassion.
1
Dear Gail,
Would you please refrain from saying OUT LOUD the names of the R’s that we like. Don’t you see that is the “kiss of death” for them. If WE like them, then THEY immediately hate them, so-o-o, only speak their names in very hushed tones in safe progressive enclaves where free speech is still truly free - for now.
McCain grandstands on television and votes the party line.
12
Especially during the current Presidential administration, we all NEED (more than "want") Heroes, saints maybe.
And a man with some decency and some honor and a couple of other related virtues has to be a candidate - especially, if he's not long for this world.
And now - nearing his end - he's saying an extra right thing or 2 - like "I shouldn't have picked Sarah Palin."
I, too, try to be decorous, so I won't bring up any other gross lapses in judgment on his part earlier in his long career.
BUT, ... we can do better when it comes to heroes, ... and when a person is deemed heroic for saying - in effect - "I could go along with all sorts of retrograde things, but THIS is a 'bridge too far,' " THAT is not heroic.
And real heroes - MLK comes to mind - tend to inspire other people. Yes, some of it is that they're "at the right time and place," but some of it is that they rise above politics (or being an unexceptional clergyperson), so that other people "stand on their shoulders," as it is said.
Unfortunately, Mr. McCain doesn't meet that test.
Let us not forget that while his "being decent" makes him an almost unique individual among the 51 GOP Senators, he's chosen to stop well short of the man who inquired, "Mr. McCarthy, have you no decency?!"
Yes, he cast a vote that made a difference in the lives of millions of people, but maybe Ms. Collins has been an observer of the body politic TOO LONG. The "bar" for our elected representatives needs to be a lot higher than that!
6
McCain was a good man, and a good politician. I am sorry his life is ending this way, and my heart goes out to his family. At key moments, he came through as a voice of moderation and reason.
Let us not beatify him, though. He is the one who chose Sarah Palin as a runningmate, showing his willingness to pander to the more hateful and anti-intellectual elements of our country. He opened the door to the china shop the current crew is destroying.
13
The proudest moment in my political involvement was serving as a county co-chair for John McCain in 2000. The GOP is going down into the sewer with its present cast of nefarious malcontents save a very few. We are poorer for it.
2
There have been hateful politicians for a long time, but Sarah Palin made it seem fun and funny to deride others. John McCain gave her and that discourse a national stage, America lapped it up, and now look at us. No one deserves to be spoken about in the way Trump, his lackeys, and his base speak about McCain, but McCain’s hands are not clean.
8
John McCain, Joe Biden and the American patriots dedicated to true, tangible civil service are Unicorns in our current circumstance.
If there was ever an argument for cloning, it is for people like John McCain and Joe Biden who truly love our country and respect its people.
2
No comparison. Biden spent his political career trying to help all Americans, not just the 1%.
"That assumes there will be another administration."
That is my deepest fear--that such a statement is no longer laughable. And to have a hard-core conservative like Bret Stephens voice it, rather than just a Progressive or Liberal, chills me to the bone.
I once bet someone a good bottle that GWB wouldn't relinquish power to Obama. I happily lost and paid up, having not recognized that Cheney had finally alienated Bush and was no longer part of the equation. Had I done so, I wouldn't have made the bet. But, again, I was happy and relieved to pay up. I won't make that bet again, either way.
The problem is that more and more Republicans recognize what Trump is doing, but instead of stepping up, of proposing legislation, of opposing his worst nominees, they are retiring and making speeches about how bad things are. Only 4 Senators have actually DONE anything--Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowsky, John McCain, and, ironically, Chuck Grassley. (Grassley got a bill out of his committee to protect Mueller's investigation, which McConnell promptly tabled indefinitely). All the rest are hand-wringing but not using their votes (I'm calling out you, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Jeff Flake!)
Why are they so terrified? No Democratic House or Senate member EVER showed such terror to a Dem President since Lyndon Johnson!
2
Let's see if Trump is the great negotiator he claims he is. He would have to get a better deal with North Korea than Obama did with Iran. That would mean zero nukes, a 70% reduction in centrifuges, a limit on the amount of uranium to 3.6% and a 98% reduction in the amount for 15 years, on-site inspections, no weapons grade plutionium and the uranium produced is for peaceful purposes only.
269
I still wonder if North Korea cooperation is more driven by the apparent collapse of their nuclear test site than any external forces. Satellite data suggests the face of Mount Mantap to sank about 0.5 meters based on Science News - News in Brief 05102018.
Let say the Manhattan Project had a catastrophic accident, I suspect we would have been in a much different position with regards to Japan in 1945.
6
Of course you are stacking the deck against the Republican. Trump inherited a nuclear armed North Korea from Obama. North Korea expanded its arsenal throughout the entire Obama Administration. If Trump just halted North Korea's nuclear and missile development it would be a huge success that might serve the world from Obama's fecklessness.
2
He won’t get much if any of the things you list because Kim has just made a big theatrical show of “destroying” the tunnels etc. Needless to say, now he can claim that his program is “finito.”
Meanwhile, it appears that DT just made nice to China (helping them keep ZTE electrics jobs in China) as a hotel project of his in the Philippines (or maybe Singapore) just got a huge loan infusion of $$$$ from a Chinese state sponsored fund. Emoluments Clause, anyone on the right? Recognize it? ZTE is the company that was banned from use by our military because the use of their electronics parts might allow the Chinese to listen in on American conversations etc. What happened to those jobs in America he was going to bring back? Hope you enjoy the “DT Best Of The East Show about to start in Singapore,”
16
I've been a fan of Senator McCain for a long time - a man who served his country well in two different roles. I felt he lost his way in 2008 when he kept moving further and further to the right during primary season. His ridiculous choice of a running mate was the last straw, and I voted for a Democrat for president for the first time in my life.
He seemed to regain his bearings after the election, and has served the country well since. I wish him well in his current battle.
2
Not sure where all these laudatory thoughts about McCain are coming from. He didn't do anything for Arizona, and nationally he gifted us with Sarah Palin. Republicans have not been a positive force in American politics for a long time.
6
John McCain has voted with the Bush and Trump administrations 91% of the time, despite their personal attacks on him. He was part of the blockade of Merrick Garland, has been chomping at the bit to bomb Iran, and nominated Sarah Palin as VP candidate. His stand of greatest integrity comes from the fact the he, personally, did not like getting tortured, so perhaps we shouldn't torture others. Luckily for us, this man of poor judgement accomplished very little by legislative standards. He has always been who he is now: all talk.
I deserve a much better senator than John McCain.
8
Democrats love McCain as the leader of the Anti-Trump wing of the Republican party. He was a political doormat for Obama in 2008, he led establishment Republican efforts against Trump including racing the dodgy dossier to the FBI, he voted for Obamacare and he continues to take shots at the President. He consented to the Biden PR event last week, where Democrats looked to cash in on the nostalgia for a dying man. As much as the press tries to inflate McCain, they have spent so much time trying to tear anybody associated with Trump apart. I assure you that if it were President McCain, we'd be talking about the Keating 5 etc, as Democrat's fawning would turn to media vitriol. McCain and family are milking his mortality for all its worth, a book deal, preplanning a funeral meant to exclude the President and fomenting outrage over a bad joke in a private meeting. It all leaves me content to focus my attention elsewhere.
3
"Unctuous" is the word that comes to my mind when I think of Mike Pence, but " oleaginous" works just as well.
2
The best I can say for John McCain is that he acts and speaks with civility and was heroic for his ability to withstand torture. But he lost my approval when he came back from Viet Nam and started an affair with a very wealthy woman, now his wife, abandoning his former wife who had been disfigured in an auto accident while he was imprisoned. Then there is Sarah Palin, his vote for tax cuts for one percenters like himself, and the fact that when running for President he fumbled a question about how many houses he and his owned. He couldn't remember if it was seven or eight. And he represents a state with the lowest paid teachers in the country.
6
Why, oh why, is everyone is such a hurry to forget that John McCain brought us Sarah Palin? Is this really such a minor sin in what might otherwise be a distinguished career? Is it so easy to overlook? Wasn't putting Palin on the national stage the very pinnacle of cynicism?
8
Oh please. John McCain wanted to put Sarah Palin next in line to the presidency. He followed his party in almost everything, until Trump insulted him personally, and even then his resistance was half-hearted. Now he is dying, so nothing could be easier than doing 'what's right'. He has nothing left to lose by doing the right thing. It does not require any courage to go against the party line if you are not competing for votes and donor money anymore. There is absolutely nothing worthy of any special respect in that.
Surely McCain is going through a lot right now and his personal suffering deserves compassion like for almost anyone who is dying a slow death... and he also deserves some respect for things he did a long time ago. But in recent years, there is nothing that merits any celebrations.
7
John McCain and Donald Trump: a larger than life but flawed man (which makes him fully human) versus what J. K. Rowling famously labeled "a tiny, tiny, tiny little man" which makes him an empty, stuffed suit.
Sadly, we seem about to lose the human.
5
no 1: yes,McCain was a hero(a long time ago,but
a hero none the less. )
no.2: as a politician, he is the leading recipient
of NRA money,a corrupt participant in the
Keating bank scandal and a Senator who, for all
his fine rhetoric, voted with Trump more than 90
percent of the time.
no.3: this over the top de-eficacation of McCain
is getting to be tiresome.yes,in comparison to
Trump, he looks good,but that is a very low bar.
no 4:of course ,we wish him well,but Stephens
and Collins are laying it on a bit too thick with
this "we,don't deserve McCain "stuff.
7
sorry for the misspelling of de-efication,
but I was in a bit of a hurry.
1
Your point taken.
On the same topic W seems to be a good man, husband and father . I do not believe W has. Racist bone in him so different from trump.
But, they are all politicians.
3
B.Sharp - G.W. sent many husbands and fathers off to be killed and maimed in phony wars. Good men don't do that.
Before we canonize McCain, remember, he gave American populism a big boost by bringing Sarah Palin onto his ticket in 2008. It makes his current disdain for the movement more than a bit suspect.
5
I'd like to weigh in on Kelly Sadler's comment about Senator McCain's health last week.
The White House gave a pass to her unconscionable remark about a Senator and former POW hero who knows the end is near. There was no public rebuke from a president who lambastes one and all for any imagined slight or insult. The press secretary saw no need to apologize for the gaffe. The silence from the White House may be some kind of push back or revenge by the president for not being invited to the Senator’s funeral. Bret, I don't see how the president had a very good week.
7
The road to Trump was paved with McCain's nomination of Sarah Palin as his #2 --his biggest decision as a candidate, and his biggest blunder. How terribly ironic that he had a role in the slide to incivility of today's GOP.
6
Beloved though he is by the press, their eternal "maverick", McCain is among the most consistently reactionary and war-mongering of right-wing politicians, as evidenced by his voting record. And some have evidently forgotten his 2008 campaign.
Small wonder he would appeal to Bret Stephens. It's a pity, however, that Gail Collins isn't better informed.
8
People are all deeply imperfect, and they all have to live in the present, not some idealized past. But leaders make themselves an example to others and demonstrate a better way. Martin Luther King was one of those. He knew his own shortcomings, but still tried to lead people away from violence and racism, towards a better way of life. McCain is in that mold. He at least has the desire to be a better person and a positive example to others. The current occupant of the White House is the opposite: an object lesson in poor character traits.
4
Until the American people receive a direct apology and statement of regret from McCain for having - and keeping - Palin as his running mate, it's impossible for me to get on the current McCain bandwagon.
I applaud his words and actions since 2016, and many from his earlier days, but can go no further. Putting a person like Palin on a national platform, i.e. giving credibility to such behavior, escalated our fall into the current abyss.
6
William Bennet's primary criticism is that George Will used big words when insulting Mike Pence. He is clearly pandering to the anti-intellectualism of a pro-Trump readership. He even does his own mockery of what a response containing advanced vocabulary would sound like. Low and behold he let his own intellectualism slip when describing Will as splenetic. He broke Orwell's rule: Never use a complicated word when a simple one will do. The very same rule he just criticized Will for breaking.
As far as substance though, Bennet's main defense was essentially manners. Mike Pence was just being polite to Joe Arpaio. He's just a decent man showing his decency in public What's wrong with that? Let's think about that argument. Oddly enough, John McCain provides two great counter arguments.
First, you wouldn't have to act decently to disreputable individuals if the individuals aren't invited to the party. McCain doesn't have anything nice to say to Trump even in death. Trump wasn't invited to the funeral. There's no need to fake pleasantries. Problem solved. Joe Arpaio was clearly invited to the invent the night Pence was fawning over him. He didn't have to be invited. Someone decided to put him on stage. Will's criticism of Pence is therefore justified.
Second, John McCain, a much more decent man than Arpaio, was not invited despite living only eight miles away. To my knowledge, McCain wasn't even mentioned. That's seems like a very indecent thing to do if you ask me.
1
I have not walked a mile in Senator McCain's shoes by any stretch, but I find his proclivity to use military force to be excessive. I believe that the era of the United States as an imperial power waging war around the world is over. Why was the horrific experience of Vietnam insufficient evidence that, ultimately, people of this world deserve self-determination? Did we really have to repeat these atrocities in Central America and the Middle East? I'm not saying that self-determination will result in spontaneous Nirvana, but we fought and died for it - do we expect that others won't? I don't fault Senator McCain for his military service because the ultimate responsibility resides in the political leadership that delivers the orders. But I don't see the reluctance to use warfare as an offensive weapon that I would like to see in a person who has seen civilian death first hand, and indeed contributed to it. McCain is known as a gambler - he likes casinos - but I find him lacking regard for the human consequences of his bad bets. Let's not forget that he has advocated a hostile policy towards Iran for a long time - that cataclysm must be avoided.
Regarding Gina Haspel - what self-righteous nonsense to put her under oath and ask if what she did was moral. Not her job to assess morality - her job is to execute legally authorized orders. The White House validated the interrogation protocol and her responsibility was to implement or, if her conscience balked, walk away.
3
McCain has displayed enormous courage throughout his life. His courage during his excruciating experience in Vietnam was boundless. That courage remained throughout his career in politics, earning him his reputation as a maverick in the Senate. What separates McCain from his GOP colleagues is he is honest to the core, regardless of fallout. While I voted for Obama in 2008, I would have voted for McCain had he not made the fatal decision to select an incompetent running mate. He won my appreciation when he took away the microphone from the woman who berated Obama and stated that Obama is a decent, good American. How many current Republican legislators would have done that?
4
In 1968, at the age of 22, a very healthy Donald Trump had just graduated college and got a note from one of his daddy's doctors saying his feet hurt, thereby dodging military service in Vietnam.
In 1967, 31-year-old John McCain was piloting a plane in Vietnam that was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg when he ejected from the aircraft, and he nearly drowned after he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him. McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".
McCain was then neglected and placed in solitary confinement for two years.
In 1968, McCain refused release and repatriation unless every American taken in before him was also released.
In 1968, McCain was subjected to a program of severe torture. He was bound and beaten every two hours; this punishment occurred at the same time that he was suffering from dysentery.
McCain refused to meet various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.
McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years until his release on March 14, 1973.
The idea that 63 million Americans saw fit to vote for Cadet Bone Spurs who despicably slandered a true American hero like John McCain should remind us that many Americans are truly and incontrovertibly deplorable human beings.
371
Here, here! John McCain, for all his faults as a politician and a person, has done something that Donald Trump has never done. McCain has served this country honorably, at great peril to his own life and health. Donald Trump has served himself, like a starving man at an all you can eat buffet.
51
And let's all remember Cadet Bone Spurs and his dishonorable enablers are desperately slandering Robert Mueller, surely as honorable a veteran and public servant as Sen McCain!
64
Bravo!
8
I am embarrassed to admit I once thought William Bennett believed some of what he said about ethics and honor.
He obviously never believed a word of it. And that's doubly a tragedy, because we desperately need people who defend virtue for its own sake, not merely as a bludgeon against one's adversaries.
Looking back, Bennett's only accomplishment was to promote the corrosive cynicism that destroys societies, and is destroying ours.
186
I worked in an intergovernmental organization that did "business" with the US Department of Education during Bennett's tenure as Secretary. Let me tell you, brother, some of us knew his moralizing was a smoke screen. He's no Trump; that's for sure. But this surety stems, I suspect, only from his lack of a Trump-sized inheritance.
9
I bought Bennett's Book of Virtues when it came out. Good for the kids to read, I thought. Once I realized what Bennett really was, I tossed the book in the trash. I now understand that the whole "family values" thing he & his cronies promoted is just marketing to the gullible.
8
And the evangelicals who want to force American society to conform to their idea of what is "moral" and "christian."
Strange how the conservative demagogues become more humane at the end. They say that in his very last days, even Goldwater was penitent.
6
It is good that Americans have short memories. How many wars did McCain goad us into? McCain has always been one of the leading cheerleaders of the military-industrial complex which has controlled our disastrous foreign policy.
8
John McCain went off the rails, in my opinion, when he took on Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008. He put her on his ticket at the behest of the RNC, and she proved to be an embarrassment not only to the GOP but an albatross to Mr. McCain. She was more interested in promoting herself than supporting Mr. McCain, and showed herself to be a bit of a dope to boot. And Mr. McCain seemed to have done very little vetting of Ms. Palin before adding her to the ticket. (Sure, she brought in the hard core conservative base, but those voters weren't going to Obama anyway.)
Before that fateful decision, many in the country felt that we had two good choices for president/VP. (Barack Obama was the better candidate and very likely the better president, but a McCain presidency would have been at least tolerable for much of the country.)
It's hard to believe it's been 10 years since we've had that feeling.
6
Gail and Bret talk about the next administration. Nice for them to hope.
Then there’s us seniors who don’t know if they’ll make it to the next administration. We hope, also. We hope we won’t go out seeing this country led by the likes of Donald J. Trump. It’s probably already erased time from our very being.
So if we, who are old, say, and feel sad about the country in the hands of Trump, we must feel heartbroken for John McCain. Not only to be ill and be a senior, but to be insulted in a class of insults of its own - to be called “dying, anyhow” by a two bit Trump aide, Kelly Sadler.
There are some things in life no one, no matter age nor health condition deserve, and Trump and his ilk fall into that category.
To the McCains - John McCain represents the truest America. We are so sorry Trump and his commandos stepped into politics at all. Never feel we have ever favored their crass and classless exclamations.
5
It is sad commentary when a man who is obviously dying is suddenly beloved by people who hated him prior to his illness. John McCain has been a war hero and a good senator for Arizona. Unfortunately like many senators he stayed too long in his position and should have moved on and allowed a younger person to take his place. This is a major problem with the political structure of the House and Senate.
1
John McCain will always look good next to Trump, but I lost count over the years how many times he voted in lockstep with the rest of the Republicans in their expressed aim of making Barack Obama a one-term president. He clearly cast votes he did not believe in for the sake of his party.
To me, that's a shame. I am sorry for his present plight, but would like to feel better about him than I am able to.
5
I understand that he's nearing the end of his life. I also understand and appreciate that his was the vote which saved Obamacare, thus protecting millions of Americans from losing their health care as the vile Trump and his allies tried to take such a vital protection away. Still, I'm not ready to beatify John McCain. Let's not forget that his candidate for Vice President was a thoroughly dangerous person, not much different from Pence although she might have a lower IQ. Overall, most of the issues that matter to me as a liberal have not been supported by McCain so I must say with regards to whether or not we "deserve" him or not that in comparison to most of his GOP colleagues he appears fairly agreeable but then again, comparing him to such a motley crew is really no endorsement. In other words, Pat Moynihan or Ted Kennedy he ain't.
8
He’s had some political wins, but he’s also shared in the destroying of America. Just because he’s not Trump doesn’t make him a great political hero.
5
I'm glad there are whistle blowers and leakers in government. Far from being "traitors," as Trump says, in my opinion they are more patriotic than the ones who keep quiet and go along. The American people deserve to know what goes on in our government. Every single person working in the White House is a federal employee, paid with tax dollars and should be made to answer to the public. It seems everyone in this administration thinks they answer to no one. Trump, and apparently his aides and cabinet members, think they are entitled to operate without scrutiny. They are wrong, and those who leak information about what goes on behind closed doors should be commended. Without them, the American people would have no idea of the depth of corruption that we finance with our tax dollars and the extent of the contempt these entitled government employees have for us.
5
A great man, flaws and all, and decent to the core - never afraid to stand up for his beliefs - its such a shame that there is no such maverick amongst the current crop of politicos
Godspeed
2
Next thing we know, the face of John McCain will be the only non-presidential one on Mt. Rushmore. And why not? He may be the last public servant guided more by his sense of personal honor than by political guile.
I'm afraid that for the next decade or so we are all going to have to endure the efforts of former Trump supporters to spread the blame for the current mess in the GOP on all Americans. The 70% or so of Americans who abhor and have resisted the takeover of the GOP by corrupt authoritarians and self-serving wealthy individuals have much less to atone for.
2
Although I disagree with McCain on many things, he has my respect and admiration. However, he didn't go far enough in defending Obama against being "an Arab". He should have taken the moment to defend Arabs and Muslims against being used as an insult. There is NOTHING wrong with being Arab and/or Muslim and he should have used that moment to stand up against that type of bigotry. He gets a lot of praise for defending Obama but it is often overlooked that he let the term Arab be used as an insult.
1
Oh please, enough of the McCain worshiping. I have been following this guys career for the last 14 years. He is a typical Republican, nothing more or less. He will rant and rave about some deeply offensive republican bill or idea. But when it comes time to vote, he is on the party line. Every time.
He is no friend to democrats, or liberals in any way shape of form. And if he was truly against Trump he would retire forcing a special election but no, he will hold on for his buddies in the party right until the very end.
5
McCain suffered some serious horrors in service of his country several decades ago. That's not forgotten, and it's disgusting to hear Trump and his followers besmirch that - particularly given their cowardice at that particular point in American history.
Leaving that fact in its historical time and place, we should nonetheless be more clear-eyed about his shortcomings and hypocrisy as a politician.
Sure, he's made the occasional comment or speech that questions Republican orthodoxy. But his voting record hews very closely with the progressively more extreme positions of that same party.
Sure, he's raised rightful concerns about Trump's temperament, intelligence, and fitness for office. But his Vice Presidential pick during his own campaign (Sarah Palin) was someone even dumber and more dangerous.
Sure, he's dying right now and saying some more of the right things. But we should judge him not just by his actions in the waning days, but by his whole life. There's a lot there that deserves serious scrutiny.
252
As I recall, during the Clinton years in office, McCain called for invasion with "boots on the ground" of at least six different countries to solve problems that were almost all solved diplomatically in the end. Clinton intruded on one civil war, against the Serbs, by giving arms and air support to the good guys, thereby establishing the right way to fight and win a war. We lost no soldiers. Imagine how many of our troops would have perished had McCain been in the White House sending "boots on the ground" into that war and others. McCain was a mindless hawk and it's a good thing he never became Commander in Chief.
37
Well put. When someone of prominence dies, journalists often neglect to report the personal political/social history of the deceased. Death seems to entail the ultimate forgiveness.
17
Well said. While I deeply appreciate Senator McCain's decades of service to our country, he chose a woefully unqualified candidate as his vice-president in 2008, giving credibility to that wing of the GOP.
34
"...everybody in the White House appears to be out to destroy everybody ..." I hope they all succeed. It is best called by a cliche: Poetic justice because Mueller's is still far away.
3
Bret Stephens, David Brooks and other "conservatives" need to stop pretending to be appalled by the current state of the Republican party. Trump and his enablers are a direct evolution from the race-baiting plutocracy that has characterized the GOP since Nixon hatched his Southern Strategy. It is just not plausible for anyone who supported the party prior to 2016 to now insist they are shocked and saddened by what it has become. That is like playing with matches then insisting after a fire breaks out that you had no idea there might have been some danger.
I'm glad you oppose Trump, Mr. Stephens. But you don't get to claim your beloved Republican ideals were hijacked. Trump is the apotheosis of what the party has been for your entire adult life.
5
Mr. McCain has voted with the Republicans on most issues during this terrible administration. Let us never forget he picked Sarah Palin. Now he is thinking about his legacy. I wish he had thought about it sooner.
7
The truth is that John McCain is an exemplary Senator among Republicans, but that's a very low bar. Most of his "heroic" stances, and his standards of decency, as a Senator are simply regular positions for many Democratic Senators. While overall Senator McCain has lived a life of laudable service, the most outstanding thing about him as a Senator is the paradox of how a generally decent man could inexplicably remain in the Republican Party. If his stances seem "brave" it's only in comparison to the lunatics he willingly kept the company of. I wish him and his family well, and I wish he had recognized the ugliness of his party sooner.
4
John McCain has a lot to answer for — and he is refusing to answer for it even as the tributes pour in.
It is because of his dreadful judgement in choosing Sarah Palin as his running mate that we have Donald Trump in the White House today. She “normalized” for the news media and many in the public the idea that an ignorant loudmouth could be president. Lo and behold.
He has had many chances to apologize for this, but I have heard him (on TV) refuse to do so.
I am sure he showed great strength of character in Vietnam 50 years ago and seems to be doing so again in this time of illness.
But he had not shown much character in the intervening 50 years.
He does not deserve thanks or admiration. He has served this country for a long time, but he has not served it well.
2
Collins and Stephens trip over each other proclaiming McCain to be a paragon of "virtue and honor". They forget to mention that McCain is also the NUMBER ONE recipient of campaign donations from the NRA. (So much for campaign finance reform.) Where is the virtue and honor in taking huge sums from the group that fights every form of gun control and attacks every candidate who suggests assault rifles have no place in American homes? It's easy to look virtuous and honorable when being compared to the venal, mendacious Donald Trump. History will judge by other measures.
4
Leave the man go in peace.Never could play hardball ,unless it was to push and shove into Iraq. Famous for crashing ,supposedly ,a few jets ,which happens .Yet the injuries were supposedly,from the crash ,because you do not torture a 4 star generals son,no matter what. Personally created a savings and loan scandel verging upon the criminal. Which relatively innocuous when you consider many in congress were insider trading for literally decades.Yes a normal life for a special person but a bust for a pedestal ,think again.
4
McCain's last big vote was the Ryan/Trump tax plan. McCain will trivia question, remembered only in relation to his unprincipled "opposition" to Trump. Never has a nickname someone gave to themselves ("Maverick") stuck so well despite being so untrue.
3
'The noblest Republican of them all ', a gentleman and soldier- whose words, I fear, will be taken too lightly by those who most need to hear them as our ideals dissolve in the soup of power, egotism and propaganda. Once we were a country that stood up for human rights- now we embrace torture, dictators and thieves and denounce the poor and disenfranchised as a a means to an end for the very few- "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, and yet forfeits his soul?"- Matthew 16:26
"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up,"
That was Senator McCain in October 2016. The media is turning the Senator into some mythical person who worked furiously for the good of all Americans. The facts do not bear that out.
11
I love these convos, but Brett is Republican-lite!
We need some evil Trump-thinking talking head who is also articulate (a stretch, I know), to explain the worldview we despise so much in a way that illuminates why Trump may get re-elected in 2020.
When Raj Shah inevitably leaves or gets fired from the White House - he would be an interesting choice. Never has such a good intellect been used in the defence of an administration so odious.
And can Gail please provide a tutorial to the Dems on a winning message? Thank you!
2
Few people have the heart, go the distance and got the grit. Yea, we deserve him, he wouldn’t have it any other way. Unfortunately for him he’s from a generation of true statesman. He’s an old dog from a time in America when all the world wasn’t an internet stage. I’m truly thankful He remains in the Senate going the distance. I hope one McCain or another will always be In the there!
118
Absolutely! You are so right, Jim. There are so few statesmen and stateswomen now, but we must continue to encourage and support those who do serve. There is still value in democratic government and the world certainly will benefit from people like John McCain for generations to come.
11
McCain wasn't perfect and I didn't agree with him on a lot of issues. But I respect him. His decisions were based on his beliefs and not who paid him the most. And he treated people decently (unlike the clown we have in the WH now)
10
This guy supported Trump AFTER Trump humiliated him by calling him a coward for being captured.
He ran a Presidential campaign with a woman who is even more despicable than Trump.
Are you kidding me? You're just going to sweep that under the carpet?
And guess what, as much as I think the internet and SM will destroy us, the old white guard (McCain) were still racist, war mongering, money grabbers it just wasn't as easily seen as it is today.
7
....maybe he represents your political ideal, he surely isn’t mine- he’s the consummate hawk - more bombs, more troops more wars - he’s responsible for a military budget which is bankrupting our Country. He may have been a war hero, but he’s no politician I would ever support, praise or vote for.
Peace not war.
7
I don't have anything to add to the comments I have read that note both McCain's contrasts vis a vis the current president and the complexity of his legacy and actions.
I would love to know from Bret, however, which of those Bavarian beer halls in Munich was his favorite...
2
Gail writes that Trump should indicate that he doesn't approve of Sadler's McCain comment. I've been assuming that she hasn't apologized publicly as she promised Meaghan McCain because she's been told that she will incur the full wrath of Trump if she dares to apologize.
2
"Democrats: Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire and Michael Bennet of Colorado, purple-state politicians with crossover appeal."
Ah, Brett, always wanting Democrats to have 'crossover' appeal but never Republicans because Republicans don't need to care or consider the needs, values and desires of the 'others'. Is that about right?
11
While I have the utmost respect for McCain's military career, not so much for his political one. He has pretty much towed the republican party line which, in my estimation, is a hateful ideology. After all he did vote for the Trump tax cuts and he is the man who gave us the gift of Sarah Palin, just to name two recent examples. Yes, he is not a narcissistic wanna be dictator like our current president but that's a pretty low bar to clear.
8
McCain should step down now, and give the choice of his replacement to the voters of Arizona rather than to the governor.
3
With our "so-called" president, we are always dealing with the tyranny of the present crisis, chaos, scandal, etc. Yet, I believe his character, or lack there of, is the most indicative and costly part of his administration than anything he does, as it blankets even seemingly good deeds, so you are suspicious of his motivations. All his decisions and choices reveal his character. He is a deeply flawed human being, full of insecurities, blame for any thing that goes wrong, and self serving - getting all he can while he can. There is no respect for our Constitution, our laws, our lives and no affinity for America and its history. He calls out the worst of human nature, our greed, our selfish needs for power and status, and our petty differences to divide and conquer, not only the electorate but his own cabinet and advisors. There is nothing about him that inspires, challenges, or lifts anyone or anything. He is destructive to most everything he touches and is not a builder but a bulldozer, wreaking havoc wherever he turns his gaze. Putin couldn't have gained a better puppet for elevating Russia's standing and influence in the world, while simultaneously destroying ours. Justice will be served. The day of reckoning is coming. This menace will be gone.
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John McCain lost my vote when he took Sarah Palin as his running mate. His choice showed a craven kowtowing to an anti-intellectual base that made me sick.
And please don't get me wrong about the word "intellectual." I'm referring to the ability to think about and appreciate advances in science, the natural world, and history and literature; and not just opining based on unreliable emotions and superstitions. We are fast becoming a country that cannot tell the difference between fact and opinion.
The Russians and Chinese are laughing all their way to world domination.
Barack Obama was woefully unprepared to be president -- although I had hoped he would be president some day. His shilly-shallying and belief in the goodness of man led him to squander legislative opportunities. A community leader, he thought the Republicans would place nice with Democrats and create a solid health-care bill. An honorable man himself, he thought Iranians would honor a nuclear agreement.
I'm glad he was president and not McCain, just as I'm glad he was president and not Mitt Romney, whose own choice of hard-line running mate also showed a swing away from moderation and common sense.
But I'm glad Senator McCain is still around. He's a human being -- pretty rare in politics nowadays.
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Ahem! The Iranians did honor the nuclear agreement! Even key agencies in the Trump administration found they did!
1
If we’re going to argue --Gail Collins
Why in fact don't you actually argue over anything. Nod in the direction of a disagreement (all well within very limited parameters) is not arguing or even discussing anything significant. Bret is moved by the move of the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Well how moved is Gail by the bloodshed on the Gaza border. Most likely this conversation took place before yesterday. But still...
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We certainly did not deserve John McCain (JM) in this century. How soon we forget world history from the beginning of this century with the beginning of the America's longest war in Afghanistan followed by the Iraq war during the Bush years? During the Obama years, the regime change wars that were fueled by US by supporting and arming the rebels in Syria, Libya and Yemen were added to the conflicts in the middle east. There was one staunch supporter of all these wars in the senate not only for his thumbs up but actively promoting the need for these wars and American involvement in the wars. That supporter was JM. JM was front and center in advocating military solutions for problems that we made worse for the people from these country. During the first 16 years of his century thousands of brave American heroes laid down their lives in the desert of Iraq, and in the mountains of Afghanistan, several thousand other Americans have had varying degrees of painful injuries, loss of limbs and PTSD. Millions of innocent men women and children from these predominantly Muslim countries have died and many millions more had to leave their homes and seek refuge elsewhere because of the devastation caused by indiscriminate bombardment of the cradle of civilization. Enough is enough. It is getting sickening that we are forgetting the loss of lives in this century. The misery and devastation that it left behind and we are hypocritical in going overboard over a single POW in a worthless war.
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They've invented this great thing called paragraphs!
I highly recommend them. Like other readers, I skip over multi-line, breathless posts that have NO paragraph breaks!
If you want your comments read, press that return key between thoughts!
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Thanks Stephanie Bradley from Charleston, SC for the suggestion. I was not sure whether the spaces get counted in the limit
This exchange during the run up to the 2008 Presidential election, sums up that John McCain is a decent man who shows respect even to his opponents.
A woman came up to McCain at a rally and said, “I can’t trust Obama. I have read about him, and he’s not, he’s not — he’s an Arab.” Her comment prompted McCain to immediately shake his head and take the microphone from her.
“No ma’am,” McCain said. “He’s a decent family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what this campaign is all about.”
McCain continued to defend Obama during the event even as his supporters voiced their surprise in the background.
“He is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as President,” McCain said. “If I didn’t think I’d be one heck of a better President I wouldn’t be running, and that’s the point. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments, I will respect him. I want everyone to be respectful, and let’s make sure we are. Because that’s the way politics should be conducted in America.”
To think we have someone like Trump as President, who shows zero respect and empathy on a daily basis, yet his loyal base approves of Trump continuing to lower the bar on Presidential competence and behaviour.
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His base believes him (Trump) because he tells them what they want to hear, irregardless of fact or reality.
"Preaching (hate) to the Choir" as it were...
I am somewhat confused as to why nobody seems to mention Amy Klobuchar as a possibility on a presidential ticket. She is respected by both sides in Congress and exudes a levelheadedness whenever she talks about issues. We should not be looking for rock stars to lead our country but to those who commit themselves to governing with sanity and without hatred. There are others who display a level of sanity but are not making a splash: Jim Himes, Chris Murphy, Governor Insley or Hickenlooper. They don't seek the spotlight but certainly possess a moderation that would be a breath of fresh air.
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I have always had such mixed feelings about John McCain. I have loved him for his maverick style, and despised him for his pandering. These days, the bar has been set so low as to put him in the "one of the greatest Senators" column. Moral values hardly seem to count anymore. The malaise Carter spoke of was nothing compared to now.
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What we deserve is elected officials who put America first.
That does not mean that we always have to agree with each and everything that they do, but having a strong moral compass is certainly part of commanding the respect of all Americans.
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Well, ok. What do you mean by America? Do you not realize that the reason our society is teetering on the brink is that we have split into camps, largely based on what the word "America" means to us? I think even the Koch brothers have convinced themselves that their ability to accumulate more wealth is actually good for "America." These Evangelicals who support our SCHMOTUS actually believe that they have a strong moral compass, and that "America" should be a reflection of that.
"His consistent take on McCain is that the senator is a loser. Gets shot down, is a prisoner of war, fails to win the presidency. And that’s a view shared by the Trumpified G.O.P., which has given up on McCain’s old-fashioned concepts of virtue and honor to a cause in favor of the ethics of whatever-it-takes.
Let's change that last phrase--"The ethics of whatever it takes, PLUS, whatever it gets me personally." is the Trump doctrine.
I see that Gail and Bret once again agree to disagree on presidential actions, but not on the president himself: at least, Bret, has a chance to redeem himself.
But I continue to wonder what value it was to whomever leaked the nasty McCain comment? I mean, it could only have come from administration staff, and we know that Trump seeks loyalist.
Which he clearly hasn't totally done, given that t he leak had to have come from that staff meeting.
McCain, despite his diminished height, towers above this morally bankrupt administration. Yes, in politics, he could be as repellent as any Republican yet that maverick voting record showed a man of more substance.
Of all things he crusaded for, the most important was crushed by the Supreme Court, in its worst and most consequential decision yet. In just 10 short years, we've seen what happens when our normally bought and sold public officials are totally beholden to a small group of donors.
When the rich call all the shots you get what we've got: America in decline.
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Leaked the "joke"about McCain? I doubt it. Rather, I suspect folks in Trump's inner circle repeated it because they thought it was funny.
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McCain's encounter when he corrected a voter who claimed that Obama was a Muslim certainly was one of his finest moments. However, it wasn't enough for McCain to point out that Obama was not a Muslim. He should have reminded her and the audience that under the constitution there is no religious test for holding public office, which means that even if Obama were a Muslim, that fact was irrelevant to his candidacy. That would have been a more complete and accurate answer.
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I disagree. I think he did plenty, and more than any Republican would do now.
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Agree with Mr. Rossi. Come on. It was one of the senator's finer acts. And folks say, "Yeah, but..."
Come on.
It is true that McCain showed his decency in many other ways. He visited a hospital to comfort a patient who, as an anti-war demonstrator, had cursed Mc Cain upon his return from captivity. McCain should never be compared with other Republicans, because his understanding of our history and our ideals, far eclipses their feeble grasp of American values. Think Cotton and Cruz.
McCain's last big vote was not on the ACA but on the tax cut for big business. He showed his true Republicans for big business credentials.
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Yes, Trump got John McCain right. He's a loser. John McCain could have squelched all the talk of repealing ACA 8 years ago, instead he stood on the sidelines and said nothing. Let's not forget, that as the most powerful Republican Senator he could have put the brakes on the Bush Iraq War Plans. He was just as much responsible for the "Great Recession" as George W. Bush. John McCain is a loser.
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Why have a Chaplain in the House at all? Representatives could stand and swear an oath e.g."Today we swear to carefully consider how what we say and do in this body will affect not just ourselves, but our constituents, our country and the world. So say we all." A moment of silence might follow.
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An hour of silence would suit me.
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If those WERE the ground rules, we'd have had some blessed silence for many years now ... with many more in the offing.
BTW, what a well-crafted oath Ms. Curtis offers.
I remember when Republicans were falling over themselves to take some sort of "not a dollar more in taxes" pledge. This so very superior one is at once seemingly uncontroversial and ... so different from b.a.u. in DC that it's up there (or should be) with "Life, liberty, etc."
Gail and Bret, to us, the stunning difference between McCain and His Unhinged Unraveling Unfitness is best noted by the juxtaposition of McCain-Feingold with the Rolling Trumpster Fire's self-enrichment from flying back and forth to his estates and resorts, billing the taxpayers for expenses his security detail incur while protecting him at his resorts and estates.
American patriots like McCain likely want to physically wretch at the very thought of the donald monetizing the Presidency as he has - hmmm, isn't Robert Mueller a decorated Vietnam Vet, too ?
To answer the question posed by the headline of your piece, we say that America is always lucky when its heroes get to lead us.
Bringing up the fact that we are where we are because GOP'er party leaders were so seditious after all their years of obstructing Obama (and utterly abrogating their oaths by pretending a 2-term Dem POTUS had no SCOTUS appointment power past the 85th month of his 96 months in office), that they did not exercise their patriotic responsibility to America and the world of making sure someone utterly unqualified did not get to head up their ticket as the nominee.
GOP'er leaders' Fail was cataclysmic, and they transparently chose party over country because: judges, tax cuts.
What has happened is not 'disruption' and not politics; McCain's pleas for 'regular order' shine the spotlight on all the contrived chaos.
"The state of our Union is lawless" - Rep. Eric Swallwell (D-Ca.) Jan. 30 2018
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I am sure that John McCain is of the highest moral and ethical character that a person can be. But, I am also sure that his service in the US Navy had a major role in shaping his character. I regret that more people did not serve their country in some tangible way--military or public service--as youngsters. I did not serve in the military; but, I did try to contribute time and money to worthy causes as an alternative. If we had more public service projects for our youth we would deliver more resolute citizens into adulthood.
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I respect McCann, but let’s put his recent actions in perspective. I’m wondering if he ‘saves’ Obamacare if Trump had called him a great American instead of disparaging his war record. And it’s rather easy to dust off the old Maverick label and stand above the fray when one’s next Judgement will very likely supersede that of the Arizona electorate. Just sayin.’
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So even Bret Stephens thinks its optimistic to believe there will be another administration. What about the rest of us?
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"Why not replace the Statue of Liberty with a brand-new Trump casino and resort while he’s at it?" I've been thinking for some time we might be heading in just that direction. That statue standing there certainly has become an embarrassment for this administration.
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Trump and other politicians refer to the unauthorized release of inside information as leaks and rail against the practice. Actually. they often convey important information to the voters about the inner workings of their government. The leaks that Trump complains about usually convey negative information about the operation of the government that should be known by an enlightened public.
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There is a lot to be said for bright sunshine as treatment for mold, infection, and politics.
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I'd take issue with one of Gail Collins's statements about McCain in an otherwise enlightening conversation. She leaves the impression that McCain imploded as a candidate in 2000 after winning the New Hampshire primary. Actually, he was torpedoed by the Republican establishment and the religious right in SC. Those entities had decided that George W. Bush was going to be its nominee that year. Among other dirty tricks McCain had to endure, a "professor" at a religious college sent out an email alleging that “McCain chose to sire children without marriage."
The slime campaign worked. McCain lost the primary, and ultimately the nomination fight. His response was to declare publicly that the G.O.P. is “the party of Ronald Reagan, not Pat Robertson … the party of Abraham Lincoln, not Bob Jones.”
No one can deny McCain's virtue and honor, despite lapses in political judgment over the years. But, unfortunately, he mis-read his party then. He sees it more clearly now.
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I am grateful and applaud John McCain for his bravery, sacrifice and years of service both in the military and public life. However, once he aligned himself with the likes of Sarah Palin and voted more times than not with Trump, that was the end for me.
I wish the Senator well but cannot excuse the fact that he sold his soul to put party before country.
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I understand the desire to praise McCain right now, but as you point out we can't afford to disregard the entirety of his record and history.
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Once there was a time in America when we elected Military heroes, those people who had shown a love of country not simply implied through words but by their actions. How many politicians have stood in front of an American flag and expressed love of country only to be later shown to be hypocrites whose only love was the love of power and money. Senator McCain comes from that breed of men who do not have to speak of personal courage because their biographies speak for them. The time when it was prerequisite for a man who sought higher office to serve in the Military is long gone, the American voter would rather cast a ballot for the snake oil salesman with the charming smile than the true patriot who has risked his life for the freedoms of this nation. Career politicians are now the norm, I see it all the time in NYC, the son or daughter of an assemblyman runs for the same seat when term limits cast out the old man, they follow a path ever upward, these career politicians know no other life than politics, not only have they never served in the military, many have never even held a real job. The phony patriots run every state capital in the country and Washington as well, and the moral, intellectual and spiritual decline in this country that has taken place under their watch is no accident or coincidence. The gold standard on Patriotism is military service and John McCain through his bravery, integrity and courage while in uniform is the gold standard of that.
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President ... not a career politician. Chief of staff not a career politician. Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, Ben Carson, Steve Munichin and on and on in this administration are not career politicians. Granted they were all appointed but still politicians.
1
Elect members of the Military? Like Eisenhower, and U.S. Grant? 2 of the worst Presidents ever.
The last person anyone should vote for or trust is some General who got rich off of war.
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I notice You conveniently forget to mention George Washington. The man who thought we should have Presidents rather than kings. the lasting gift of the twin calamities of Vietnam and Watergate has led us here...a complete distrust of everyone, we vote against a candidate more than we vote for a candidate.
I do wish we’d hold eulogies for funerals. John McCain deserves some serious eulogies, and I’ll have my own here when it’s appropriate; but it just strikes me as ghoulish to entertain them when the man is still adding to his legacy with all this controversy over his funeral.
So, Bret doesn’t regard himself as a Republican? Apparently, neither do David Brooks and Ross Douthat. I suppose what I think about that is that it’s not a bad position to take for a professional pundit: you get to strafe from the outside while not actually be expected to influence an effective governance. You also get to carp on the inevitable stumbles the real players make as they chivvy for that effectiveness in America’s interests. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
There will be another administration. But it may just be with the same president, no longer bound to a retrograde base that can no longer benefit him in any way. I’m sure that Gail and Bret will have plenty to kvetch about in the coming years, because at his age Trump is unlikely to remake his persona into some avatar of Kumbaya.
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@Luettgen: So if Trump wins in 2020 he'll jettison the base? That comment reveals more about your opinion of him than you probably intend.
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The world awaits this poster's McCain remarks with baited breath.
Inevitable stumbles? That's one way to describe chaotic (or nonexistent) management of this White House, ill-informed policy decisions, and blatant attempts to skirt ethical guidelines. No one expected kumbaya, least of all the conservative columnists at this newspaper.
And any other president would have taken the "carping" to heart in an effort to implement more effective governance. This one doesn't give a damn.
10
I guess this sums it up. Being civil and respectful is now "Kumbaya".
3
Ben Sasse is not "profoundly opposed to the president." He is Rand Paul Lite, talking big in opposition and then voting in line with Trump. You are giving him way too much credit. There's no leadership there, just posturing.
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Sasse also is a seriously dedicated conservative. He is marvelous in a good interview, which I heard when his book came out. Dig deeper, however, and his conservatism is kinda scary.
12
During his last senate run, I was living part time in Arizona. McCain barely won re-election. Arizonans had tired of him and mr flake. But since trumps bombastic capture of the White House, McCain looked more and more like a serious counterbalance to the Don. His reputation looks refreshed. And now that he is in the twilight of his career, it’s one of those you don’t know what you got till their gone moments. But seriously, John McCain’s political career went on and on and on and then some. How about some new voices? Voices that don’t always espouse the military way of thinking. He was great on military expenditures even when we did not necessarily need more of it. We exist in the age of American military mindset. It is pervasive and distracting from matters that also need attention. John McCain, for a fly-boy, soared higher than most. I will miss the acerbic verbosity than is needed with the Don sitting on the gold plated throne. Saying thanks for your service is not enough. He is someone you can call a hero.
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The voices of World War II are gone and ever so quickly are the people who served in Vietnam, You don't believe there is a place for the veterans of our wars to speak up in government? They know the sacrifices better than anyone and so would try to equip their fellow service people with the best. A flaw perhaps but one I can live with as opposed to those who would throw young men and women into conflict without thought of the consequences.
Particularly as a 30 year veteran, I admire, respect, and esteem Senator McCain's steadfast moral and physical courage as a prisoner of war. I can only hope that I'd have shown the same commitment, stamina, and endurance or principle and patriotism given similar circumstances. That being said, my image of him was forever tarnished starting in 2006 when I saw a photo of him standing on the podium smiling, grasping hands with Jerry Falwell and then choosing Sarah Palin in 2008. The lesson he seemed to learn from 2000 and the message he seemed to be sending was "if you can't beat em', join em". Unfortunately, I'll never get that completely out of my head when I think of John McCain.
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It's hopeful that the American public would deserve better. Mr. McCain should have made way long ago for someone else, as the senator from Arizona, instead of clinging to the position into his eighties. He recently stated that, now that the end was nearing, he was free to state his opinions honestly. The corollary to that statement is that he had refrained from doing so during his lengthy (maybe over-lengthy) career. But, it would not appear that Mr. McCain was self-aware, in not realizing the hollowness of his statement about his new-found honesty.
38
Much of McCain's past might be honored, but in the present, he should resign. He is not well-serving the institution of the US Senate.
Contrast McCain with Thad Cochrane - Cochrane has resigned.
Edward Kennedy stayed too long when he was ill.
The spectacle of long time, old powerful people clinging to their positions is not the legacy I wish on them.
Time to resign.
13
While your logic may have merit, there is no reason for McCain to resign. We need the constant reminder of all that was good in this country and, right now, he is it. His policies and votes may not have been considered "correct" by many (myself included) but his way of doing things deserves respect. You do not throw out a terminally ill good man...you let him go with his dignity and thereby dignify his existence.
3
If McCain leaves the Senate by the end of May he'll be replaced by a rabid pro-Trump appointment. If he stays till June 1, there won't be a replacement, and that's one fewer vote for the GOP. Sticking around now is the best thing he can still do for the country and would partially make up for Ted Kennedy's giving us (in Massachusetts, in the US) Scott Brown.
4
Better an aging, ill, incapacitated individual with a degree of integrity than 50 who have no moral compass or allegiance to the U.S. Constitution. Why should McCain resign when what will be left is a bunch of killer Yes-Men? The cabal in Congress does not care about the majority people they were elected to represent nor the legacy of democracy; they care only about power for its own sake and theatrics. Not only that, but this is an administration that is practicing ethnic cleansing--both here in the USA by driving out brown-skinned people and in Israel by pandering to the anti-Palestinian elements, for which we now are guilty of mass murder. Move over, Myanmar, here come Israel and the USA.
3
My thoughts on the vile White House comments and subsequent refusal to apologise are rather simple. Senator McCain is, first last and always, an officer and a gentleman. The Trump administration is, first last and always, the antithesis of that standard that, speaks for itself and, unfortunately, the United States as well. Every commissioned officer has that high standard instilled in him or her. We may not always be able to rise to the standard but I would say that most of us do our best to maintain it. I have not always agreed with McCain and, at the same time, I respect his service and his courage. He is an officer and a gentleman. I sincerely wish I could say the same for this President and his motley crew.
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Every commissioned officer has that standard? How about John Kelly? He seems to fit right in with the "motley crew" in the WH.
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John Kelly, Oliver North, Michael Flynn -- all commissioned officers. The high standard may have been "instilled" in them but it didn't stick when there was money to be made and/or a right-wing agenda or demagogue to be served.
There is rot everywhere.
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I guess Gen. Kelly is the anomaly of high standards?
3
John McCain is an honorable man. Yet, I do recall the media finding ways to undermine him with innuendo when he was a candidate. So sad that we sometimes let our political views sway our morals and actions.
Let's elect competent, good people, eh. Governing is not something that we should take lightly.
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I think even John McCain can share in the "taking governing a bit lightly" when he chose Ms. Palin as his running mate. I was so disappointed in that.
7
Joe, repeat after me - McCain picked as the heartbeat-away vp candidate, Sarah Palin. That is why we wanted him soundly defeated.
7
Ultimately, he is a politician. A hero, for sure, but a politician who brought us Sarah Palin. In that move, he proved his ability to cater to the people he now condemns.
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McCain, a party loyalist. Voted lockstep with 99% of every harebrained, divisive, backward and national self injuring issues that ever came up. The face of the modern military industrial complex.
All the roadblocks to national progress McConnell could throw down, McCain never criticized.
Sarah Palin, was the least of his failures. Her, question to Obama, after he was elected, "How's that hope and change working out for ya?" Was spot on, brilliant.
20
ultimately he is a human being. he works as a politician. as stated, mcCain, the politician, i don't always agree with. mr. mcCain, the man, is indeed an honorable man.
17
Politician is not a dirty word anymore than compromise. And Senator McCain didn't "bring us" Sarah Palin, feel free to thank America right-wing politics though.
The real questions are, what mistakes do people make, how much damage do they cause, and can they learn form them. I'm more than ready to concede Mr. McCain's mistakes (as it appears he does) in return for his strengths.
8
Although I tend to agree with Gail and disagree with Bret, it's heartening to see that it still is possible to disagree without being entirely disagreeable.
And that is precisely why we deserve people like John McCain.
I did not vote for the Senator. I would not vote again for the Senator against a generic Democrat; however, Trump could not shine John McCain's shoes.
We need more people like McCain to save our souls from the torment and torture of this Trump "purgatory", if not to save us, but to save our Republic and to show the rest of the planet that we have not abandoned our principles and the common decency that has made our nation a beacon of freedom and hope to mankind.
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What a fine day:
Kevin, like Gail and Bret, nailed it.
Must be the Mothers Day Miracle. Long may it wave.
BTW, Mothers Day started in Philly, making my hometown The City of Brotherly and
Motherly Love.
29
If we need to look to the future to "...show the rest of the planet that we have not abandoned our principles and the common decency that has made our nation a beacon of freedom and hope to mankind.", it means we HAVE, as a country who elected Trump and tolerates Republicans, abandoned our principles and common decency.
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of couse we deserve john mcCain. we should insist upon people such as mr. mcCain. we might disagree with everything he believes in, but at the very least, he is a person
of integrity and honor. the sad thing is, what used to pass as 'to be expected' behavior from our peers and leaders has now become extra-ordinary. simple acts of courtesy, kindness and respect are so rare, we're thankful when we witness them. that used to be the way things just were. oh well. cheers to mr. mcCain and the high road well-traveled.
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Trump is approving the leaks. The leaks provide chaos and distraction, steer liberals from focusing on a strategy, and pump up Trump's base when liberals are jumping up and down.
I know these things have to be reported, but I wish at least some small group could laser focus on democratic strategy for jobs, infrastructure, health care, and issues that are going to matter to people in November. When have we last read a story about any prominent democrat talking about these things?
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Agreed. Though I don't think it's easy to break through The Noise, and talk about the Real World right now when so many are clapping like trained seals while it burns. Including far too many in media.
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Trump isn't approving the leaks. That would require paying attention at a level of detail he can't be bothered with. In other words, it would mean actually working. This bogus, illegitimate president is too busy with other things--watching cable TV, firing off tweets, throwing tantrums that terrify his staff and mortify his cabinet, talking to Hannity on the phone nightly, signing documents on-camera with a dramatic flourish, walking to his helicopter in front of the media and, especially, playing hours and hours of golf every week.
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T, y'all remember, the USA taxpayer debt is $21,000,000,000,000, and climbing? What's the "democratic strategy" on that? Got a budget?
Mr. McCain and his family are proud warriors and deserve our respect.
He has also been in Congress since 1982, in the Reagan era. Term limits. Please. Thanks.
5