This article fails to mention that hundreds of thousands of people from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala have already been admitted to this country.
A reminder to Judaeo-Christian commenters: the Bible instructs us to welcome the stranger, for we were once strangers ourselves. (Think 1620, and the first Thanksgiving dinner . . . and what came next.) Jesus himself enjoined us to love our neighbors, and he didn't mean the people we move next to in our gated communities. He meant the people God puts in our path. Shame on some of you.
3
This world lacks compassion.
1
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
I feel like some people on have forgotten what it means to be American.
1
This article is woefully incomplete. Whether relationship to a gang or gang member can qualify an asylum seeker for membership in a “particular social group” as asylum law is codified U.S. law is fact-depenedent and changes judicial circuit by judicial circuit (more recognized in the 4th, for example).
1
Actually, your Times pick is an interesting comment involving the M-13 gang that murders people on Long Island as part of its initiation ritual (Refer to the New York magazine article). It doesn't happen here?? It happens less here but there is plenty of unreported gang violence and K Herman seems to not know about it. Frankly, I am concerned about unescorted minors ... who in foster care in certain communities-- say on Long Island -- might well fnd solace in joining a gang.
None of the cases to me were esp. compelling. We have plenty of abused everybodies in the good old USA... and little is done. (And which is where Hillary R C could make a huge difference if only she dared.)
Perhaps, it is the fault of monopolies and mega-corporations in the end that import and export as much as possible thus limiting possibilities for work everywhere!!! In other words Capitalism is the basic problem... and the desire to breed the second.
3
Many (if not most) commentators seem to know the motivations of asylum seekers without even speaking to them - must be their Magic Eight Balls are working overtime.
To the everlasting shame of the US and non-fascist countries in Europe before and during WW II, refugees fleeing for their lives from the Nazis were turned away when they sought asylum. Most of those turned away were killed. To atone for this infamy, treaties on the treatment of refugees were drafted (of which the US is a signatory) and laws were passed by Congress setting up a system for processing asylum seekers. It's a shame we have such short memories. Of course, the skin color of Central Americans has nothing to do with it...
1
Perhaps the problem is the 1951 Refugee Convention? Which after all was drawn up in a bygone era before the age of jet travel, the Internet, and cell phones. The Convention provides a sense of entitlement to those entering signatory countries and the obligation also includes that the asylum seeker will be provided with housing, food, health care. These Central Americans are not fleeing south but north.
10
The 1951 Refugee Convention originally was only for European refugees, reflecting past and present-day racism, plus colonial times. (Most African countries did not gain independence until 1960.)
The 1967 Protocol at least got rid of the limitation to European refugees only, but that has made little difference here in the U.S., where we did not even recognize the UNHCR definition of refugee until 1980. Furthermore, we have continued to privilege Europeans, White Cubans, and Asians over Africans and Latinos. Just check the ORR data on refugee admission to the U.S.
2
The US is among the Ivy League of nations - of course it's not a cake walk to get in!
1
Every high breeding 3rd world population believes they have a right to a do-over in the U.S., UK or Europe. They don't. They broke their own countries - mostly through conflation of patriarchal dictators and Catholicism or Islam. For decades, 3rd worlders have needed to fix their own nations and those underlying issues that give so much power for violence and corruption to their fathers, sons, husbands, uncles, neighbors.
13
The US can't possibly offer asylum to all the world's victims of domestic or gang violence. Just imagine, for example, if muslim women claimed that they feared for their lives in theocratic societies since the koran portrays women as inferior. It's a legitimate fear, but the US doesn't have the resources to help.
14
The United States - especially California and Texas - is unable to sustain and absorb the developing world's excess population run-off. And even if the US could bring hyper-density, hyper-congestion and hyper-diversity to its cities why WOULD it? If Central America requires military intervention to eradicate its gang infestations then so be it. But most Americans don't want to live in sardine cans in order to accommodate the egregiously high fertility and corruption rates exhibited by our southern neighbors.
14
Why have these asylum seekers not applied to Mexico for asylum. These people form the Congo, El Salvador, Cameroon, Guatemala, Honduras all came in via Mexico. In Mexico, foreigners have 30 days upon entering the country to submit a verbal or written asylum request at Mexico’s Refugee Agency (COMAR), or the National Institute of Migration. According to the Mexico News Daily, asylum applicants were 40% in 2013, 70% in 2016. Under the Safe Third Country agreement, which took effect in December 2004, Canada can turn back potential refugees at the Canada-U.S. border on the basis they must pursue their claims in the U.S., the country where they first arrived. Why doesn't the same apply to Mexico?
16
Canada can turn back potential refugees at the Canada-U.S. border? Yes, the asylum-seeker know this and they also know if they do not apply for asylum at an official border entry point and simply just walk in illegally, then they can apply once in the country. They are crossing in droves, flying in from the US on US travel visas and walking in. Such is the situation that Quebec has issued a warning the school system can not accommodate any more and social housing capacity is at the maximum.
6
Flying in from Nigeria to the US on visitors visas, then crossing into Canada, but not at official crossings.
1
Sad as these cases are, every one of them (except the last one) has been judged absolutely correctly per American obligations under the UN Convention on Refugees. In the last case, the Convention excludes asylum for a person who is party to a conflict, which arguably would be the case if one is trying to secede from a sovereign nation.
While one can feel sorry for the persons involved, it does not give them unfettered rights to stay in the US.
9
I am failing to see the inconsistencies in these stories. The situations in their home countries are very different. Being persecuted by a gang for being a non-gang member or supporter is certainly different. Given that the Honduran government has high ranking officials, military and police that are supporting the drug-trade (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/world/americas/after-78-killings-a-ho... and by default, the criminals, doesn't that make these folks fleeing have credible fear? The government is not willing to protect them because they are apart of the mayhem. Yes, the country the is poor. Except for a small percentage of the country elite, everyone is poor. Does this make them economic refugees? Given the violence that is perpetuated and allowed by the government, it seems they are part of a persecuted group, normal poor citizens, with credible fear, of their government in cahoots with gangs, who won't protect them.
2
I don't know why Central America cannot set their governments straight. The US already has more than plenty asylum seekers and it is not our problem that these countries are crime-ridden and corrupt. Everyone across the planet would like to come to the US, but can't because that would be destructive to our nation. We are already the third most populated country in the world, we don't need more people here. I'm sorry these people are fleeing violence, but they need to fix their own countries. We already have more than enough problems here and we don't need other people's problems added to our list.
13
The National Post has a headline story, "Canada will soon have more illegal border crossers than Syrian Refugees". For those of you not familiar with the Safe Third Country agreement if an asylum seeker arrives at an official port of entry with the US they are turned back (few exceptions,-relatives). This rule does not apply if they just walk in anywhere else, so the would-be asylum seekers exploit this loophole. According to the article, the Immigration and Refugee Board is backlogged with pending cases and the current wait time is 20 months, for a decision. Then after comes the appeals. While all this goes on, social benefits such as housing and healthcare (that Canadians are not entitled to) are provided. The latest group, after Haitians fleeing deportation orders in the US, is Nigerians. Nigerians are travelling to US on a tourist visa and crossing illegally into Canada in droves. Haiti and Nigeria are generally countries qualify as having citizens in need of international protection. My point in detailing all this? The reality is that the asylum system, as it is now, is unsustainable. Not just for Europe, Canada, but the US.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/de-facto-amnesty-a-look-at-the-daunt...
11
My error, Haiti and Nigeria are, generally, NOT countries that qualify as having citizens in need of international protection. According to Canadian Immigration officials Nigerians are recounting what sounds like a well-versed and often repeated story. Homosexuality is against the law in Nigeria so the asylum seeker states that as a married couple one of them had an affair with a member of the same sex, therefore they can not remain in Nigeria because they will be persecuted. The scenario has been presented so many times the Immigration and Refugee Board officials wonder whether the Nigerians have been coached.
5
C'mon Americans.You who lecture us and criticize us for not wanting asylum seekers from the Middle East should take these poor Latinos in.If you can't stop lecturing other countries about how we handle immigration.We are fine with immigration as long as it is controlled and not from the Middle East.
1
These people are coached in what to say to immigration officials. They will lie, say whatever words they need to say to be admitted. Once free in the interior, they can buy false identification and remain in the shadows. They are in essence demanding entrance and if it is not given legally, they will do it illegally and the heck with our laws. Is that who we want as future citizens? My vote is NO!
America cannot be the world's lifeboat. I agree we can help foreign persons, but why can't we help them in their own nations? I am solidly with President Trump on this one, although I disagree with the idea of a wall. We need to prosecute employers and turn off the jobs magnet. People who hire illegal workers are stealing from the public welfare. If we enforced hiring laws we would not need a wall.
41
Anyone who starts a comment with "these people" lacks basic empathy and humanity. The rest of this rant only proved that thesis.
12
There are one million undocumented illegals in the UK. The UK is now requiring employers, housing authorities, and the NHS to ask for documentation verifying residency. There is no system of national ID as there is in other parts of Europe, France and Germany. Perhaps that is what is needed to verify residency.
3
The "caravan" could have applied for asylum in Mexico. The fact that they didn't is evidence enough to deny them entry here.
27
No one who is fleeing gangs deserves asylum. Victims of domestic violence do not deserve asylum. Only victims of political, religious, or ethnic persecution deserve asylum. In addition, you need EXTREMELY THOROUGH documentation. Credible or uncredible fear is not enough. It's time to end the nonsense about asylum. All of these people from Central America are economic migrants, and should apply for immigration from their home countries.
24
There are too many stories detailing how families do not want to separate due to their decision to enter and remain here illegally. These same families left their families in the "dangerous" neighborhoods of their own country. In this article, it was so they can gain asylum. They leave their children behind or send money to build houses so they can return when they retire.
The true unfortunate people are the working poor in this country. They are forced to compete with them on housing, their low paying jobs, education in their crowded schools and the area's medical facilities.
Politicians and the wealthy with their bleeding hearts have shown no regard for these hardworking poor tax paying citizens. There are no additional resources for these hard hit neighborhoods so citizens must find alternative ways to deal with the large influx of illegals, etc.
It is quite easy for politicians and the elite to ignore the results of their decisions. These migrants, illegals and pretend asylum seekers are not living or using their neighborhood's resources. They ignore labor laws, health insurance premiums, minimum wage regulations, Worker's Compensation and tax laws. They create foundations "to help" the poor but this is solely to hide their money. Another smoke and mirrors setup caused by both sides of the aisle.
22
Jeff Sessions opposes giving asylum to domestic abuse victims. Apparently his “Christian” values at work - making sure women know their place. No different from taking away immigrant abortion rights. I guess Jeff thinks she can just take her children home and let the bearings resume. Real men don’t rape or beat women and children - or facilitate it. At least, let them poor women divorce their husbands while they are here!
2
Asylum for domestic abuse victims is based on state action in the form of inaction. In many Central American countries, the government will not help a woman who is beaten, stabbed, or even shot by her husband, deeming it a simple family matter. I once had a client whose husband, in addition to stabbing her in the leg and shooting her in the arm in different attacks, ran her over with a car when she was pregnant. She delivered prematurely and was in a coma for 2 months -- and when she brought her husband to court, he was ordered to pay for the infant's early birth and intensive care. That's all. She walked to Mexico from her home country further south, planning to live there, and her husband found her and dragged her back - Mexico would not help. She walked to the US and got asylum. Good for her!
14
I do volunteer work for an immigration firm, doing country conditions research. And I couldn't agree more; the system just doesn't get it that the governments in the Northern Triangle are virtually powerless against these gangs or even regular domestic abusers. They can pass as many laws as they want, but it matters little if the laws aren't being enforced. The maras act with almost complete impunity as a result; they're as bad as the Taliban in many cases, forcibly recruiting boys and girls to serve as soldiers and comfort women.
Unless, the Border patrol has criminal evidence against individuals seeking asylum, every one of these refugees has the right to a safe haven, and a hearing. THAT is our law. Oh, right. There is no rule of law in this "administration." The rules do not apply to anything tRump does, in this official capacity.
3
Why are we the only country which seems to be the target of all so-called "asylum seekers"? The leaders of Central and South American countries need to straighten out their own messes. We have enough of our own..........
17
I think this article showcases just how arbitrary our laws are regarding asylum. According to the article, individuals must be part of a 'special group,' which is not clearly defined, and should not be granted asylum if they face persecution based on race, religion, nationality, or political opinion. I'm not sure how Joel Kangudi falls into a special group or Cristina Bebawy but both received asylum. But then how is it that Che Eric Sama, who must be gay given how the description is written, was not granted asylum and deported?
It seems that people seeking asylum are really at the whims of the judge who handles their case. It also seems highly problematic that those seeking asylum are allowed in the US--what's to stop them from just staying here illegally? What percent of asylum seekers never turn up to their court dates?--this would be very interesting to know. And while they're not supposed to be working while they're waiting for asylum, I wonder how many are working under the table since it seems unlikely that they could be supported financially by family from a country that they're fleeing.
6
For Mr. Kagudi, sounds like political beliefs. For Ms. Babawy, sounds like religious persecution. Possibly the claims of Mr. Sama weren't found to be credible? Who knows.
3
"should not be granted asylum if they face persecution based on race, religion, nationality, or political opinion. "
That's not what the article says. It says that those aren't going to be applicable for Central Americans I assume because governments in Central America don't persecute people for those things.
There is a fifth basis for asylum - "membership in a particular social group' - which is either persecuted by the home government, or which is persecuted by another group that the home government will not act to stop. For Ms. Bebawy, the basis would have been religion (she was studying the Christian Bible in a Muslim country), and US judges are quick to sympathize with persecuted Christians. Joel Kangudi looks to me to be a political opinion case. And in my opinion, Mr Sama's case looks to be a social group based on being gay case -- but we aren't given enough facts to know the credibility of his claim, and who the immigration judge is matters tremendously, though it shouldn't.
As to the rest of what you say, many asylum applicants rely on charitable organizations for support while they wait, and others are held in mostly deplorable immigration jails. I am sure some work illegally -- wouldn't you, if it meant starving otherwise, or returning to a place where you would be persecuted?
None of the refugees that have been interviewed speak English. They all speak Spanish. One wonders why they can't seek asylum in Mexico?
32
The world population is now at about 8 billion. A large number of these people are from failed states and barbaric regimes. Our asylum system was not established with any thought of the huge numbers we are facing. There's just way too many people.
24
I'd like to know what our State Dep't. is doing in these countries of origin to mitigate this issue. Are we working to make economic stability and opportunity, reduce drug/gang violence, political upheaval, etc. so these migrants can stay in their own countries? I'm sure we have a diplomatic presence in these countries. This issue may be best handled through diplomatic, economic development and relief efforts, rather than paying our citizens at the border to patrol, imprison, process, adjudicate the cases.
2
ROFL. There are something along the lines of 230 nations on the planet, most of them poor 2nd and 3rd worlders to the tune of @ 7 billion. It is neither the job not the duty of the U.S., Canada, the UK and Europe to allow into their countries the unending flood of migrants, most of whom come with offspring in tow and no education, skills, English and the ability to support themselves and their relatives. The tactic is to get across the border, camp out, hide from authorities for xyz amount of time and then blend into the illegal immigrant woodwork. Many are fully cognizant they can get some welfare benefits by stepping one foot onto U.S. soil. They know how to steal social security numbers, apply for a tax ID number, get money from the IRS without paying anything in, and on and on. Half the U.S. are chumps and the other half have finally caught onto this illegal immigrant and "asylum" scam that run roughshod over Americans for 40+ years. They speak Spanish - so apply to remain in Mexico, Colombia or Peru.
8
Which is exactly why I suggested they do so in their own countries using government agencies and job programs that our State Dep't helps to set up there.
1
Given some of these reasons, I can see why the migrants want a better deal, a safer country. But for some that just means a base to challenge the home country. For others, get away from a spouse. For many, a safe and better place to raise children, jobs, living conditions, etc.
All good reasons to want to come. But most are the same reasons people might want to get out of a domestic situation; get a better place to lives; to get one's child into a better school system, but for those already here they can't apply and get help to relocate. So the issue is why do we offer it to others when our own citizens can't access the same things??
16
Seeking asylum by force is like cutting the line in front of others , except this isn't a movie . Hope all those lawyers that show up to help are doing their job diligently and fairly without an activist agenda . On appearance most look like economic migrants and probably will get deported . I can see why people in this country are against this type of immigration by force , it is an affront to all the others who are patiently waiting in line and there is only so much to go around , especially now . This is the 21st century where the doors are not wide open anywhere. As painful as it is to turn people away , it has to be done lawfully.
21
We certainly have the right to protect our borders and a need to know who is coming in and for what purpose. However, at the same time we are condemning these people for entering our country, we are hiring them for work our citizens will not do and paying wages our citizens would not accept. We need a measured, logical, comprehensive policy that looks at the reality of our situation and at the reality of our illegal population and enforce that policy. Good luck with that though, there is nothing informed, moral or logical about our present Executive or Legislative Branches of Government.
1
Hate to agree with Jeff Sessions, but Ms. Rivas should not have been granted asylum on those terms. Her boyfriend was violent so her only choice was to move several countries away? Does not compute.
But otherwise this list gave me comfort that asylum was being granted for the right reasons and being denied where the stories did not meet the appropriate standards.
18
The article is a inaccurate. There are 2 ways to secure asylum:
1) prove you are being persecuted by your government because of your race, religion, nationality, political beliefs or membership in a particular social group
OR
2) prove you are being persecuted by a 3rd party (e.g. a gang) because of your race, religion, nationality, political beliefs or membership in a particular social group AND your government cannot/will not protect you.
Almost all Central Americans try to prove they are being persecuted by a 3rd party.
The situation is delicate not only because there is concern that granting asylum too easily will encourage others to try.
Granting asylum for people who are victims of gang persecution promotes the perception that Central American governments have lost control of order, a perception that undermines efforts of those governments to maintain order.
Granting asylum to Central Americans also is a tacit admission that the US government meddled in Central American politics during the 1970s/1980s. The gangs that dominate Central America today were created in the US during the 1970s/1980s by Central Americans who fled to the US when civil wars plagued that region. US aid propped up authoritarian governments in Central America. The gangs initially were an attempt at self-protection, but members also got involved in minor criminal activity. Changes to US immigration laws in the 90s led to gang members being deported along with their gang affiliation.
2
We have plenty of gang violence victims in the US, but few are fleeing to other countries for asylum.
21
In 2012, President Obama established DACA which offered any undocumented immigrant, who had arrived here before the age of 16, the chance to apply for protection from deportation and the right to work here. Word of this spread throughout Central America, and throngs of young people began coming here. A 4/11/16 Congressional Research Service report titled "Unaccompanied Children from Central America: Foreign Policy Considerations” said,
"Since FY2011, the number of unaccompanied alien children (UAC) traveling to the United States from the “northern triangle” nations of Central America—El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras—has increased sharply. U.S. authorities encountered more than 52,000 unaccompanied minors from the region at the U.S. border in FY2014, a more than 1,200% increase compared to FY2011.”
Tens of thousands of Central Americans, who claim to be minors, continue to arrive annually, asking for asylum.
The figures from Syracuse University used in this article, of the percentage of asylum cases accepted by nationality, does not include many of the cases of unaccompanied minors.
17
Sounds like a lot of Americans are fearful of immigrants from our continent. Do they have reason to fear? (aside from Trump saying repeatedly that MS-13 is in every neighborhood killing people). The facts bear the truth, immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than American born citizens. Attacking immigrants seems immoral and in-American from a historical point of view. The United States of America is located in the ...American Continent. This was not a white continent, it was brown. The U.S.A. and Canada changed that through genocide of Native peoples. All ethnicities are foreign except Native Americans. America is a nation of immigrants.
So who are these "dangerous criminal aliens", according to Trump? These are are neighbors who are fleeing violence in their home countries. These are people whose ethnicity is native to the Americas.
So after committing genocide and a couple hundred years of open immigration from Europe, we want to lock the door to the people here on this continent fleeing persecution. This policy is simple to describe, racist. This is where American values are today, this is who we are. Hopefully, we can change.
4
The U.S. did not commit genocide, but the U.S. has been trying to limit and control the flow of immigrants into the U.S. ever since the 1790s. The best and most prosperous generation America produced was also its smallest: The Silent Generation, a/k/a The Lucky Few, born from 1930-1945 after the U.S. closed down immigration.
3
"Ms. Rivas, who was born into an impoverished family of coffee pickers, said in her asylum request that her boyfriend had become physically abusive and tried to strangle their daughter. Ms. Rivas was granted asylum before Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, signaled that he opposes giving asylum to domestic violence victims."
Domestic violence victims were not given asylum until former president Obama decided that they should be. The current administration has reverted to our original criteria for asylum.
Mexico and Central America have “macho” cultures in which domestic violence is regrettably common. The U.S. could not possibly accept every family who claims to have been the victim of domestic violence.
14
Why have these asylum seekers not sought asylum in Mexico
Congo, El Salvador, Cameroon, Guatemala, Honduras: they all came in via Mexico? In Mexico, foreigners have 30 days upon entering the country to submit a verbal or written asylum request at Mexico’s Refugee Agency (COMAR), or the National Institute of Migration. In 2016, 70% of asylum ere successful. according to the Mexico News Daily
20
I represented two Salvadoran children, "unaccompanied minors" under law, in their asylum claim last year. The girls, 9 and 12, were left behind by a frantic mother who only had enough money to get herself and her teenaged son, who had been threatened and brutalized by both MS-13 and 18th Street gangs, out of El Salvador before they were both killed. She hoped the young age and innocence of her two girls would protect them. She was wrong. My clients' home was broken into, the younger girl threatened with death and the older girl threatened with rape if they didn't pay the gang members and tell them what became of their brother. Their mother raised enough money to get them here, a perilous journey in and of itself.
I have little children. Do you? Would you, as a parent, do whatever it takes to get those children out of a world where they are constantly threatened, have no future and no hope that the ineffective government will help them? Or would you stay, knowing that your children have no future except gang membership themselves, in order to, somehow, "fix your country?"
This comment board is stunning in its lack of compassion. No, we do not have the same problems here. Not even close. Whether we should spend more resources on fixing the problems we do have is a separate unrelated question. Please take a moment and try to put yourselves in the shoes of these parents and children before condemning them en masse to deportation and death.
29
Thank you so much for this glimmer of compassion and empathy. I couldn't agree more.
4
3+ children in a country and culture like that, especially one that still genuflects to sons and all males, is what is wrong in every single one of those countries. That and obedience to stone age religions.
3
If one is fleeing MS-13, then coming to the U.S. makes no sense. We just had a recent article about the uptick in gang warfare here in the Northwest by none other than MS-13 and their subgroups.
When a country is protesting in the streets because they do not feel their children are safe in school, church, or even a Vegas country/western concert, then arguing to come here for safety makes no sense. Iceland? Sure. Tahiti? Sure. But how would your client be any safer here in the U.S.?
10
This isn't about individual stories. There are literally tens of million of people around the world with tragic and heartbreaking circumstances far more than those mentioned here.
It's about coming up with a public policy that is humane to the asylum seekers but fair and sustainable to our country, and enforcing that process. We cannot take in the enormous number of people around the world who want to come to the U.S. There are social, economic, and security reasons for why.
There's a difference between sympathy at an individual level vs. public policy.
33
It is very simple, you must have a fear of the government, and a real reason for that fear. We have gang violence in my city, and plenty of poverty. All those same gang things happen here. And we need immediate and fast resolution of these cases with deportation very quickly. If you come illegally prison at least after one free deportation is a solution. We must convince people that coming here is ineffective, stay home and fix your country.
45
Actually, no, that's not the law. Petitioners may be granted asylum if they can show that they meet the definition of a "refugee" under law: that is, that they have a well-founded fear of persecution (either by the government or by forces that the government is unable or unwilling to control), due to past persecution or fear of future persecution, based on their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a social group.
Read up on the situation in the Northern Triangle (El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala). No, we don't have the same "gang things" here. Those countries (particularly El Salvador) have been carved up and are run by competing gangs and the governments are powerless to do anything meaningful to stop them. And please, tell frightened teenagers, raped and brutalized, and their parents who want to save them, to "fix their country." Whether ultimately these people are granted asylum (most won't receive a grant), it might be worth trying a little compassion before condemning them to quick deportation and probable death.
Colombia apprently finally cleaned up its gangs. The rest of Central America must do the same.
I never thought I would say this but Trump may be right about a wall, so that the market for drugs is closed... and different economies developed.
We are asked for compassion all the time. I walk by at least 4 beggars in a 12 block walk on the ultra-liberal UWS.. and sometimes I give...(I don't think our beggars are homelss-- but this is their job... and they are pathetic -- mostly black and male - several old, one white, one female (not so old).....
There are children struggling in Amerian schools and homes, who need tutoring or regular meals. There are beaten wome with no placce to go.. PhDs with jobs that do not pay a living wage.... Compassion......Old peiple who depend on neighbors for care givers.... the list goes on and on.. organ donors...
One does turn off on occasion...
3
I have spent quite a bit of time in Guatemala. The overpopulation problem is horrendous. The men often kill or beat the wives if they find them using birth control pills at least where I was. The men do day work if they can find it and spend the money on booze and their girlfriends while the wife/mother of some of their children tries to feed the kids on a small garden plot that gets smaller with every generation. The problem was bad 20 years ago and it is a lot worse now. If it were not for transfer payments from the US the whole place would revolt. The only solution I can think of would be to extend the US border to Panama, throw out the corrupt governments, abolish the Catholic Church unless it promotes birth control and after a period as a protectorate add these countries to the USA. We are going to have to feed, educate and provide health care to these people either the easy way or the hard way. And without birth control even the US will not be able to make any progress.
3
I think we need to revamp the asylum system and only accept applicants at embassies in their home countries except in extreme, publicly documented events such as revolutions in their home country for people currently in the US. Because it is basically impossible for us to verify or disprove claims from the vast majority of applicants once they are here and we should also be bringing up credible cases we find with the country they are from once they are safely away and pushing for reforms with the possible threat of cutting aid or other ties.
57
The whole caravan should be denied asylum and deported immediately so migrants dost try these tricks again.
Also leaders of the caravan should be fined and arrested.
forget International law - turn them away and withdrawn from treaty on refugees so we don't have to accept the worlds unwamted.
33
Should we melt down the Statue of Liberty and sell her for scrap too?
1
The SoL was a gift from France to celebrate our shared intellectual creation of a democratic government, not to celebrate all the world's bottom feeders and high breeders overrunning a nation. That whole Emma Lazarus sonnet "your tired, poor, etc." (The New Colossus - indeed) was penned to acknowledge her Russian jewish relatives. It was added to the base of the Sol in 1903, 20 years after the SoL was unveiled. The plaque was also contentiously objected to at the time.
3
I have to believe we have many, many US families in inner cities threatened by gang violence. What is our policy to grant them asylum and relocate them to safe environments?
73
They should caravan it north into Canada for asylum.
11
Almost none of the illegals in the desert will be granted asylum, but hundreds of them will become illegals in the US by simply not showing up. This scofflaw behavior, which is supported by so many Dems, is destroying the SW in the US (AZ, NM, CA). It's time to create large holding areas in the area near the crossings (that is, prisons), keep the asylum seekers there, and expedite hearings. Last in, first denied. Create a climate of NO SUCCESS and this will deter future asylum seekers who depend on the lack of enforcement to become illegals inside the US
44
Some thought should be given to the question of whether asylum policies actually encourage the persecution of excess and unwanted people in some countries like Syria, Burma and Cuba. The removal of a political opposition group and "ethnic cleansing" is so much easier when there is a safety valve like the US or EU. Otherwise opposition to the oppressors would become much harder and they might have to make accommodations.
12
Exactly......to help even the Sunni Druze divide in Syria since the Sunni have a much higher birthrate they have exported the young, Sunni men to Germany.
2
Too bad you didn't include an example of the brave, honorable Iraqis and Afghanis that have supported the U.S. military, many/most of whom now live under threat of death in reprisal for working with us. The State Department has set aside thousands of Special Immigrant Visas (SIVs) intended for such cases, yet to-date has processed maybe a hundred or so. This incompetence and apathy towards people that risked their lives to support and protect U.S. military personnel is a stain on our national honor. For all his deranged rants about illegal aliens, Trump has said nothing about helping such deserving would-be immigrants...
35
Would you let an army that showed up on your
doorstep invade the country? But you'll let
a bunch of sad sacks with sob stories invade
without a second thought. No proof, nothing
to document their claims and identities.
I don't hear nobody offering asylum to
Ukarine's and Georgia's refugees.
Just, Surrender the Alamo, morons.
Armed or not, this is still an invasion.
Mexico let 'em in, let Mexico keep 'em.
42
Gang violence. MS-13. Political instability. Extreme poverty.
And the only solution is to bring the victims to the US?
We used to care a lot more about Latin America, Africa and the mideast.
But people like the NYTimes, Guardian and others convinced everyone that the US was evil in trying to get these people a better life in their homeland.
So we pulled back. And it got worse for the people on the street.
Maybe it's time to bring back Manifest Destiny. Rather than bring the opressed people here, take them good government there.
29
For all those denied asylum, give them a AR-15, 5000 rounds of ammo, and a sandwich. Let them go home and take on the gangs. Let them solve their own problems, with a little assistance. We are not responsible for them.
4
Amazing that all these people passing judgement on the motives of asylum speakers know so much about the subject, without actually knowing any asylum seekers.
4
Many don't really care about that, our country is over populated, especially with low capability individuals we don't need or want more. And we have plenty of violence and poverty to address in our own country, no importing more.
23
We know the law. Not interested in knowing them.
9
"M. P. and her son, J. G., fled El Salvador in 2014 after the MS-13 gang tried several times to recruit him and vowed to kill the teenager’s mother unless he joined."
How is someone in the U.S. supposed to know if the above mother and teenage son are telling the truth since they were not arrested and/ or videotaped? We should require people to apply for asylum in the closest country to their own where they would be safe, as the officials there would be in a better position to investigate the claims.
55
And how about doing what many here would do in similar circumstances, that is kill the gang.
9
As if this same exact gang recruitment thing would not occur here in the US.
13
Doubtless, she and her son are related to some of the gang members and neighbors, at the very least, of the others.
3
I agree with another commenter, we need to make the asylum hearings more efficient and expedited, and promptly deport people that not qualify. I hope the US government is publicizing in these countries that asylum is rarely given and do discourage people from taking these journeys.
Additionally, I have a real issue with organizations like Pueblo Sin Fronteras that offer help and support to recent caravan. They are simply preying on poor people to make a political point about open borders.
38
If a gang member threatened to kill me or a member of my family, I would leave my country as quickly as possible, especially since the governments of those countries are of absolutely no help. I'm not sure how we became so callous toward those coming from Central America and Mexico in favor for those from the Middle East, Africa, and China.
9
Violent gang members threaten children and their parents every single day in THIS country in our cities. Where are the groups of lawyers trying to help them? Where are the offers of aid? Why are we not seeing the poorest and most helpless among ourselves first? Have we just become immune to the violence in our own streets? This makes me incredibly sad.
9
@ Robin Oh, Do you think for a second that this same exact thing does not happen in the US? Where can our inner city, gang affected go to? Canada? Oh that's right they have gangs too.
13
Do YOU want to pay for them, Robin?
Do you want these kids added to your children's classes? Do you want your taxes paying for this education?
Yes, I am callous.
Do NOT let them in.
13
People seeking to live here in the US will say or do just about anything in order to stay. If they have entered illegally, skipped out on earlier court hearings, overstayed their visas or have a criminal record, they should be excluded from consideration. Vamos! Adios!
32
I agree. If only we Native Americans did the same thing when the Europeans arrived we would still have our country. Its too late now, with all the white anchor babies they made and genocide against Native Americans. I say, stop the invasive. The question is how do we deport all the white people back to their continent.
1
It's appealing to say that gang violence shouldn't be a basis for asylum, that it's an internal problem for the other country, etc. But the reality is that in Central America, the gangs are ours. They originated in the U.S.; more importantly, they grew with billions of U.S. drug dollars and gained power with thousands and thousands of U.S.-made guns. If the are more powerful than the governments of their nations, we made them that way.
To see families, and teenage girls, terrified and with horrific stories to tell from these places, turned away at the border or locked up like criminals, is a national disgrace. It's beyond a disgrace.
12
Joe, the MS-13 gang was started by young Salvadoran immigrants who were unprepared for life in the U.S. Like most other Salvadorans they had had little education and so were barely literate in their own language. Learning English and the ways of America was too much of a challenge, and their families were of little help. They banded together for mutual support in a gang that ended up terrorizing so many people that many of them were deported back to El Salvador. They established and built their gang in El Salvador. It has also flourished in the U.S., with new recruits arriving from El Salvador all the time.
In general, young migrants from third world countries are not prepared to take advantage of the U.S. education system. They are so needy, they easily get lost in the cracks, and are potential gang recruits.
Even Salvadorans who legitimately come here to escape having to join a gang or to run away from their gang, have a good chance of ending up working with MS-13. It provides them with a sense of family, and with protection, power, and money in a country where they are ill-equipped to get an education and to make a living.
14
The asylum seekers are coached by their lawyers or reps to declare the same thing. The immigration judges hear the same claims all day, every day.
A few years back there was an article here in the Times expressing this in regards to female Chinese 'refugees' seeking asylum in the US. They either said they were forced to have an abortion due to the then one child law or that they were persecuted Christians. This broken record of claims needs more evidence. Mostly they are all economic opportunists.
46
In the current political/racist climate, their best hope is to claim to be Norwegian.
5
It may be in the US’ interest to grant asylum as a tool to also publicizing and promoting our own political agenda. Protecting poor Central Americans from gang violence doesn’t meet those objectives unless the applicant is an anti-gang newspaper publisher or similar. If the US actually took on the responsibility of protecting everyone in the world from violence in their home countries we would be offering asylum to a billion or so individuals.
27
The vast majority of those that apply for asylum are not entitled to it.
They are taking advantage of our system. Each of these applications takes tens of thousands of dollars to process.
And that money is being taken from the mouths of hungry citizen children. That money is being stolen from programs that could help the tens of millions of citizens that need help.
We need to stop this nonsense. The US cannot be the dumping grounds for every country with a crime problem.
We need to change the way we do things. Deportation hearings should be an hour long process. People either meet the requirements to be here or they do not.
The future is looking grim for our species. The worst thing we can do is import millions, or tens of millions, of people from low emission countries to the highest per capita CO2 emitting nation in the world- the US.
If you try to help everyone you end up creating a situation where you can help no one. In the near future, 2050, there will be 10 billion people and everyone will be suffering the consequences of global warming. Who is going to help American citizens then? The world? Ha! The rest of the world will be taking care of their own people. Will we be?
85
The asylum system is not taking money from "hungry citizen children." Asylum is the LAW in the United States, and everyone presenting for asylum is legally entitled to present a case of credible fear. Whether their request is granted or not is up to a judge; the process is lengthy and extremely detailed.
As for the process costing "tens of thousands of dollars," I work for an organization that provides free (pro bono) asylum counsel to everyone who has passed a credible fear screening: last year, we provided over $60 million in *donated* pro bono asylum services. NO MONEY taken out of anyone's mouth, but donations of time and expertise from hundreds and hundreds of lawyers who do this in their "spare" time. The additional costs of asylum services to our clients (many cases can drag on for years) is covered by donations from people all over the globe who believe in supporting these efforts.
The United States is a big country: we can afford to provide for our citizens while showing compassion to those who need it most. This does have to be -- nor should it be -- an either/ or equation.
3
@Wordgirl,
I was unaware that judges work for free. I was unaware that the officials that conduct interviews do so on a 'pro bono' basis. The paperwork is generated without cost. The buildings where these activities take place cost nothing to run and maintain.
The sad fact of the world is that we do not have endless resources. A dollar in one program is, necessarily, a dollar less in a different program.
Fear of crime cannot be grounds for asylum. A woman willingly forming a relationship with a violent man is not grounds for asylum.
I understand your position. You are making money off of this process- and so you cannot see the costs your preferences put on the rest of our society.
Every false claim of asylum is a little more money in your pocket. It is the perfect market- one you are created for yourself.
Your compassion for foreigners is commendable. Maybe you could show some compassion for citizens? Or, maybe, instead of enticing people to take advantage of our system you could go directly to your clients in their home countries and help them there?
But I am guessing there aren't people willing to donate money to you to do that.
7
Worldgirl, so your organization gave free asylum advice to these people. Who then fed and housed them? Paid for their medical services? Educated them? Of course it costs taxpayers money, a lot of it, when people with no resources show up at our door. Should we be compassionate and support them for a decade or so? Maybe, but it's a decision the American people are entitled to make for themselves
8
This totally misses the point.
These people are not here for asylum. They don’t care if their asylum request is ever approved.
This is just a ruse to enter the country legally for several years until a scheduled court date. They ignore the court date and remain in the country as part of the underground economy, comforted by the fact that within a decade the media, liberal Democrats, and Koch Bros. Republicans will call to “bring them out of the shadows” and grant them citizenship.
62
The general description of people in the so called 'caravan', seems to be a lot of these people have a hard life and want to live in the US.
There are a lot of people all over the world that want to live in the US. These people are not refugees. They are just opportunistic migrants, much like what's happened in Europe.
61
I must say I find it strange that people of the world believe that there are no people in the U.S. who have a "hard life"......if they are admitted to the U.S., they should be required to live in those US places where a "hard life" is the normal way of life. I grew up in one of those places. They are expecting too much from so few of us........
7
Yes, there are enough US citizens who have hard lives.
11
"...they should be required to live in those US places where a "hard life" is the normal way of life..."
Often that's exactly where they do live. The problem is that now those Americans get the tab for those migrants as well. In terms of schooling, healthcare, wage competition, higher rents, etc.
8
Thanks for this enlightenment. Too many Americans have no understanding of asylum. They just lump asylum seekers in with illegal immigrants and hate them all. But, asylum is very different. Every Western country offers asylum to those who qualify. It is a human rights issue that has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
12
Don't judge Americans in your desire to coddle these people. BTW, how many asylum-seekers can you accommodate in your home?
10
It's about time the NYT made some attempt to explain what asylum is and is not, in terms of international and U.S. law. Asylum is about being in danger because of who you are or what you believe, not because of broad conditions affecting the general population of your home country. Right now our asylum system is clogged with applicants who don't meet the parameters, and qualifying persons find themselves waiting in the backlog for years.
53