I think the movie sounds really lame -- but I also thought it was a real story, not just the main character's "fantasy". And my initial feeling was "WHO besides the very rich could EVER afford a night nurse"? The costs would be huge. I imagine a night nurse charges about the same as other home health aides, such as for the elderly -- $25 an hour roughly -- add that up. It's $200 a night or more -- 7 nights a week? $1400 a week? or $5400 a month? (and you'd still be on your own during the day!)
Also: folks, I've OD'd on the use of the word "triggers". Everything, everywhere triggers SOMEBODY. Get over yourselves.
24
As the author of "Understanding Postpartum Psychosis: A Temporary Madness" (Praeger), and a long-term activist regarding perinatal mood disorders, particularly psychosis, I think I have something worth saying here. First, I don’t think those who object are saying the movie should not have been made – so this is not a censorship issue. I think the complaint is that it is irresponsible to fail to have a warning for those who are vulnerable due to having real and extreme experiences – many of whom actually have PTSD from their experience. (If you can, imagine going to see “Bodies – The Exhibition” without knowing what to expect and then seeing a face that looked like that of a missing loved one.) Fortunately, those who have objected are helping to provide that warning. (Although I really would have liked to have someone who has actually had postpartum psychosis have the opportunity to view the movie and provide feedback – that was a real missed opportunity.) Second, this might even help to raise awareness that postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are two different illnesses. In fact, if Diablo Cody is so inclined – this could be a great opportunity to do just that! I don’t say this lightly, because I know that the choice to raise awareness about the realities of postpartum psychosis would actually save lives.
13
Thanks for the spoiler warning... what the heck???
14
Thanks for spoiling the movie twist! Argh...
8
Hey readers. I must say my issue is with the marketing of this film not its existence. If you marketed Stephen King's IT as a fun movie about clowns that would be uncool. No one wants to censor the film. Also, in relation to true mental illness, trigger means something very different than how it is used as a buzz word.
13
“I’m frankly not surprised that the studio chose to emphasize the warmer, more relatable comedic elements of the movie,” she said. “The purpose of marketing is not to educate or to responsibly inform the consumer. They’re trying to sell tickets.”
That's how you sell tickets: by making a movie that makes the viewer uncomfortable. That's what folks who want to go out to enjoy a Friday evenng at the movies want. Yeah.
Survivors of Post-partum depression?
Since when is it a requirement for women to have children - via childbirth or adoption?
11
I am approaching my 50th anniversary of dealing with PTSD. When I got it the condition hadn't been given a name yet, and was summarily ignored. Over the years I have been "triggered" many times. By other people, by movies, TV, snippets of song, sudden memories and by dreams. The dreams were the worst.
None of those incidents were pleasant or comfortable but none of them did me any permanent harm. In fact, each of them was a step on the path to handling my PTSD. So, stop fearing being "triggered". Each time gives you a chance to analyze exactly what bothered you and to deal with one more aspect.
And learn to meditate. It REALLY helps.
36
Everyday I see more and more evidence that spoiled people have a diagnosis for everything, even the most natural of all processes, childbirth. Everything in life does not have to be pleasant and/or fun. I am sure from this current trajectory, we will soon see a book or a movie about the difficulties and the unending tedium of breathing and the deleterious effects it has on air.
13
I'm embarrassed for any adult who uses terms like "mommy world."
That alone tells me not to bother with their agenda.
22
I swear to God is there anything in this world that does not annoy these delicate flowers???? Every little thing offends this new breed of human, ho won earth did my mom deal with this. How did the Greatest Generation cope? Answer. They had to. All of you whiners out there, it's time to take stock of your lives and realize that life is tough and you know DEAL WITH IT.
So tired of this mishegoss, grow up already and live your lives and stop whining.
19
By "delicate flowers" are you referring to those who are upset and complaining that there were spoilers (which the article warned about) - or are you referring to mothers who are struggling with severe mental illness - or those who are recovered from severe postpartum mental illness, but, like many survivors of postpartum psychosis, still have PTSD from their experience? If it is the later of these, then kudos to you for being lucky enough to never have had to experience something so awful that it would have taught you sympathy for those in these situations.
16
I am talking about those in this audience and just about everywhere else that is offended by apparently everything. If the subject matter offends those that are suffering from these debilitating illnesses don't go to them. But we are living in a world where the PC police are everywhere and the slightest thing that these delicate flowers are offended by must be destroyed at all costs. Crikey.
7
***PLOT SPOILER***
FYI for anyone that plans to see this movie-- warning if you read this article- major plot spoiler...
Thank you NY Times for the warning, now I guess I do not need to see this tomorrow night as we had planned.
6
Triggering phrases and situations are difficult, but they're needed for the rest of us to gain awareness of the plight of our neighbors. How am I supposed to know anything about the experience of motherhood until we have a way to show the raw emotions--all the good and the bad? How can I display any sense of empathy for the people around me if I am constantly shielded from the truth?
Tully sounds like it sheds light on a topic that's not frequently talked about. Perhaps the point is only to get a discussion started.
13
Art has to unseat us from our positions of complacency. It's what good films, books, poetry, painting or music can do. It's supposed to make us think. I appreciate that the film might be more disturbing for someone who has gone through PPD or other mental health issues, but that doesn't mean that the film-maker should apologize or change their storyline.
There is a film, called 'Junebug', that I have never seen because it involves - spoiler alert - a stillbirth. Since I had a miscarriage a few years ago, I've never wanted to see that film because I know it would be too much. People who feel that 'Tully' could trigger them can choose not to see it, just as most rational people would choose not to see 'The Human Centipede'.
Art has to be free to be what it is and advocates for mental health causes are free in return to respond to that art.
16
Art is supposed to make you feel things. Wouldn't it be a shame if you were so alienated that a movie about a distressing subject made you feel nothing?
19
With people confusing the emotions of deep empathy and identification with being "triggered," I can only imagine that communication between people will soon have to be even more censored than it already is with the extreme political correctness we live with. "Don't talk to me about your depression and suicidal thoughts, you're going to trigger me." Yep, one step closer to total superficiality as a culture. The concept of "triggering" has become pathological and anti-social.
18
For Pete's sake, if you don't want to be "triggered," then don't go see it. Nobody's forcing anybody to see a movie!
22
This is ridiculous. This is a movie. It's good or it's bad. It's a story. It's not everyone's story. It's a story.
Having seen the film 3 weeks ago, I can only say it's disappointing. Not because of what it tries to do, but how it does it. Motherhood meets Fight Club. What this article, and reviewers should be doing is telling Ms Cody and Mr Reitman that they need to work harder to tell a good story. I was pretty disappointed, as were the group who saw it with me at the WGA, because we all saw the ending coming.
But that said, it's still a story. A story. Come one, people. Lighten up.
17
Why would anyone pay to see Diablo Cody's "deeply personal" emotional exercise? I thought Theron was smarter than this ego driven debacle.
3
Hey we need to start thinking about protecting individuals here, tax paying citizens. Let's bring back censorship boards to police the film industry, really big ones with all walks of life represented and each member with a black ball in his or her hot little hand.
Then extrapolate to all the so called "arts" and the press too...
5
Really sick of people demanding that art and literature not offend or upset anyone. Not everything is or should be a social-justice piece, and artists shouldn't have to worry about your feelings or be besieged for "portraying" anything. They are telling ONE story. I see this fragility taken to extremes among college students and the viewing public.
Also: "Had I went to see it... " Really? NY Times, aren't you allowed to edit quotes for basic literacy? Had I gone. Not had I went.
29
Sometimes I wish the word 'trigger' had never been coined..
12
An incidence of PPD that is one in one thousand. Along with cries of "trigger warning" from ladies who decline to see the movie. "Had I gone [NOT: "went"] to see what I decline in advance to see, I know in advance what my reaction will be."
Now there's an intellect worth reading as a blog, for sure.
I can't staunch the emotional sewage of contrail conspirators and false flag adherents that swills around in social media. But I think the NY Times needn't interpret its agenda for "alternative perspectives" to include the nut fringe on every issue.
It's the complainers here who need some alternative perspective. For example, that entertainment isn't created to "validate" their personal experience.
14
I find it comic when a writer is told that he or she can't write stories that don't toe the line. Do these critics ever actually leave the sanctum sanctorum of their ideologies and take a walk, not on the wild side but into the light and dark of day and night as most people experience their messy and chaotic lives?
6
Seems to me Diablo Cody must have made a great art if it is causes people to feel uncomfortable and think.
47
The objections to the movie are absurd. Mothers have disturbing, 'insane' thoughts, delusions, and hallucinations, however much we like to avoid thinking about it. To deny that a film should portray a mother like this one calls to mind familiar, repugnant moralizing about what kinds of mothers we can 'bear' to acknowledge. (See, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/style/modern-love-when-a-mom-bullies-...
There is a case to be made that art need not reflect 'lived experience' in light of some narrow, simplistic exaltation of 'realism'. One can argue that a movie need not offer us some *direct* reflection of our 'lived experience' in order to be a good one. Yet the present objections do not even move us toward these rich discussions.
They rather reflect narrow-minded egoism, which defeats itself on its own terms. The same people exalting 'representation' reject a movie that does not represent their experiences, showing no interest in an experience unlike theirs. Ms. Whitman's closing grouse says it all: "The filmmakers may think they captured a true-to-life experience. But it isn’t mine."
It may well be that the average mother deserves a movie that reflects her struggles and triumphs. But it does not follow that a movie that does not fit the bill - and which never purported to fit the bill - should be criticized.
Let us, please, disregard Ms. Whitman's advice. I refuse to accept that movies merit women's esteem only if act as feel-good self-help manuals.
27
It sounds like many of the critics would prefer an after school special. Woman has baby, develops a perinatal mood disorder, gets into therapy, and lives happily ever after.
That's not why filmmakers make films!
If a woman has suffered through PPA, PPD, or PPP wouldn't a movie about *motherhood* in any fashion be "triggering" (a term I can't stand because it has no agreed upon meaning)? What if the movie was about happy motherhoods, blissful first moments with the baby, and other presentations that might have felt out of reach or unrealistic or unavailable. Would that not be upsetting, too? "I didn't have that experience." That doesn't mean a movie has to represent a situation that you've been through in any way that you agree with.
20
I've seen post partum psychosis and depresssion and they are devastating and unpredictable. It's possible this film will educate some folks and therefore be useful, but the real issue once again is our lack of sensible, reliable and universal health care.
At one point, in Canada, they're were automatic well-baby, and well-mother in home checks done by a nurse for post partum moms.
Since Pediatricians and Ob-Gyns are fast becoming over worked and under paid in our for-profit health system, these checks in office can be blustery and perfunctory. Taking the time and attention to ask the right questions is crucial, as the pressure on women to be perfect instant moms is both unrealistic and intense.
13
The whole point of art is to "trigger": whether it be discomfort, empathy, fear, joy, anxiety, you name it. And good art, including a good film, is the one that makes us think about it beyond the time we spent with it and that triggered something within us. Or just skip the movie, skip reading the news, a novel, skip going to the museum... lest they cause you to feel something uncomfortable.
Good for Ms.Cody, I loved Juno and, from what I just read, I have faith that this film will be thought provoking, sensitive, disturbing and, hopefully, sprinkled with some comic relief. And yes, I've had post-partum. And no, it wasn't pretty.
13
If I hear "I'll be triggered," "it's a trigger," one more time I'll scream. People, we live in a complex, varied world -- learn to cope. When a WOMAN"S college like Mount Holyoke is afraid to call women women, lest anyone who may not feel like a woman be offended, we have truly gone too far.
30
I have not seen the movie and this review is the first that I've heard of it (nor have I experienced postpartum). A number of commenters think the movie will be a negative trigger for some and is a negative overall. People who watch this film must have a high tolerance for grief and frightening subjects. I can no longer watch films about terrorism and deadly intolerance--Hotel Rwanda cured me of that.
1
I have seen this movie trailer and it is jarring to me. The clips from the movie definitely do not look like a comedy, and it is weird to see it being promoted as such. From reading this article I assume that whatever the ending is, it is not happy. How is any of this funny? Making light of the experience of motherhood that is reality for many women, delegitimizing the real problems they (we) face.
3
As a man, I can say little about the experience of pregnancy. As someone who has not seen the film, there is nothing I can say about it's quality.
As a functioning, educated adult, I can say something about the expectation that any movie meet the requirements of all viewers. That is simply irrational. I have some scenes in films I REALLY am uncomfortable with. I can tough it out or I can go to the loo or I can skip the whole thing. I have a pretty clear idea of what's offered and can choose accordingly.
Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan had disturbing scenes but nothing I found unacceptable or triggering. There are people who feel differently. We both can make our choices.
11
Having been a teen mother myself, I knew that Juno was an unrealistic portrayal of the situation. I was disappointed, but -- it was a movie! So is this. No one movie is going to show a situation for what it really is, and what it really is is different for everyone who has experienced it. As a society, we need to grow up a little, thicken our skins, and stop looking for safety everywhere. Again -- it's a movie!
15
Was it unrealistic because it didn't match your experience?
3
The issue is not that the film deals with hard issues; the concern is that it was marketed like a much more lighthearted look at motherhood than it actually is. This is not only false advertising (which in itself is incorrect) but one that can have harmful effects on fragile individuals.
6
Pumping breast milk, nursing, getting up to soothe the baby at night, feeling exhausted at all times, being pregnant while mothering other children are some of the examples of real mothering. Not being supported, combined with exhaustion and social isolation, add a non-involved husband are also examples of
real mothering. Although I would have stopped at number one or two at most. Now get real and watch the movie!
24
Made by a group of people, Reitman, Theron, and Diablo - who somehow never create fully human artistic expressions. These three are development Frankensteins who approximate a kind of middle brow but lifeless simulacrum of adult concerns.
4
They are all really, really rich -- 0.1%!!! -- and think having a night nurse is actually something normal and relatable, when in fact, most Americans have never heard of such a luxury.
3
If this movie sheds any light on the trauma, isolation and exhaustion brought on women by bearing and caring for small children then it’s probably a net positive. Our needs and experiences are- in my opinion and experience- ignored by society at large. I’m thrilled to my bones to see brave women like these, Michelle Wolf, Samantha Bee, Ann Marie Slaughter etc etc frankly and ruthlessly demand that our experiences be seen as valid. I will definitely see this movie but will also give comfort and understanding to women who feel like it is too much because their experiences matter too.
26
This isn't about triggers or comfort zones. This is about confusing postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. Hallucinations are not normal for PPD! Sure, Diablo Cody can have her not get help. It's an artistic choice. But given the risks of PPP--including suicide or harm to a child--it's not right to confuse the two. Tully is being promoted as bringing attention to PPD, but it's muddying the waters instead.
10
Yes it is -- and it cleanly misses an opportunity to point out that the main character's problem -- whether depression or psychosis -- is set off by having a THIRD CHILD, which is a serious violation of Zero Population Growth (and common sense). The character already has a troubled autistic son -- having another baby is madness. At the minimum, people who attempt this have family help -- their mothers, a mother in law, sisters, friends, etc. When my best friend had her first child....she was a single mom. So I took off a week of work (no paid vacation, so I had to take a week of leave WITH NO PAY) to stay with her and help with the baby. The idea that somebody could hire a "night nurse" for $1400 a week is so laughable, it never entered the conversation.
6
If we survived PPD, we can survive a movie about it. Nothing in my life has been as bad as PPD.
23
It isn't about PPD.
5
Instead of thinking of a more polite, gentler response, I will be blunt: GROW UP people. Should we not make movies about people getting cancer, about having a child with a life-long disability, about pets dying, about parents dying, about children dying, about war, about poverty—must I go on. Life is full of distress (and joy) of all kinds. Movies are to entertain and sometimes to make us think and always to make us feel. Again, let’s be grown-ups here and see the movie (or not) but not whine about it.
72
Absolutely spot on. I've been through certain events in my life that are extremely traumatic and highly personal involving illness and death, and believe it or not films have been made that include events just like them that are presented in a dramatic fashion. I would certainly be "triggered" by certain scenes in movies such as those. I love films-in fact, I work on them for a living, But guess what? I can make a choice to pass on seeing them. It's not a huge deal. All films are more or less a fiction-even documentaries are shaped and edited and slanted. If you're old enough to have PPD(any my heart goes out to all women who've suffered with it), you're also old enough to say "no" to sitting through a dramatic film that might have a slant on it that would upset you.
9
Exactly. My father was shot and killed when I was a teen. Shootings on film and tv still "trigger" me. So -- I don't go to very violent movies, and if it appears someone will be shot in one I am watching, I close my eyes. It's childish, I've tried to get over it, I haven't been able to -- but what I can do is not watch simulated violence.
2
Oh, thank you so much for this!! At the ripe old age of 64, I've lost a husband to a gunshot wound, and the usual illnesses and traumas that come with enough years on this planet. And I avoid violent movies. End of conversation.
All the whining about this movie (and seemingly unlimited subjects that make the oh-so-delicate ones medicate themselves.....) is just absurd.
7
I have seen this film and I believe the subject is handled both sensitively and realistically. The undercurrent of post-partum depression comes through in a most sympathetic and compelling fashion. Is it everyone's personal story? No. It's one story of the dark underbelly that childbirth/parenting that often is otherwise ignored until tragedy strikes. Charlize Theron will be nominated for another Oscar for this brave performance.
25
I'm a bit concerned that making the psychosis about having a helper may obsfucate how dire the condition is. Andrea Yates killed her five children due to post-partum psychosis that was undertreated due to insufficient treatment due to her insurance's restrictions. That is the horror that can happen, not a pretend nanny.
16
Triggering discussion aside...
Apparently if people tell you something you did was not a good idea, or not well done, you can just call it “starting a conversation” and that makes it a good idea? It doesn’t matter if it was well done or not, or if it was in fact what it was made out to be?
1
I see the arguments against this film as bordering on censorship. Film writers and producers have absolutely no obligation to do what "others" think is "right!"
Seriously. Grow up people. If a film trailer or talk of a film "triggers" you, don't go see it! (And maybe think about getting some help.)
It seems we have become a nation of entitled children, from bringing your "comfort" pet on planes to the guy in the Oval Office tweeting his anger and self-pity. It is sheer insanity.
72
Exactly! This is a MOVIE. And is it healthy to always avoid subject matter that makes you uncomfortable?
2
I am not sure anyone has seriously suggested the film be censored -- I think they want to warm others that the movie is being misrepresented in ads as a charming, quirky comedy about a woman overwhelmed by a new baby, who gets the gift of a "night nanny" who is like Mary Poppins and fixes everything. If the night nanny is a psychotic hallucination....the story is not cute or charming, but dark & scary.
4
Since the movie hasn't even opened, this article should have been tagged clearly as containing spoilers. It's very unfair both to viewers and to the filmmakers. Let moviegoers experience the shock and then discuss it afterwards.
11
Cloudy, you might have hit on the problem. While I agree with you, I'm also grateful for the advance warning about this film. I've seen movies I thought were going to be fun and uplifting only to find they were really about suicide or something like that. Remember "Changeling"? I never would have watched that if I had known what it was about. I felt a bit betrayed by the marketing. Maybe that's the problem here.
5
3rd paragraph
Ann Smith, the president of Postpartum Support International, a nonprofit group, said her organization has been fielding complaints about the film since March, when spoilers began to circulate. (If you don’t want to know what happens in the movie, stop reading here.)
4
In the 4th paragraph of the article, it clearly says (if you don't want to know what happens in the movie, stop reading now).
4
next up, as in "uncomfortable", I'd like someone to tackle what about 10 percent of full term pregnancies end up with - a stillbirth.
Nothing, NOTHING is more devastating. To the mother, the father, the extended family, the friends.
It happens much more often we realize. And we probably don't realize it beacuse no movies tackle that heart breaking reality.
8
According to the March of Dimes, stillbirth occurs in 1% of pregnancies, not 10%. While I can understand your point, correct statistics may help ease the anxiety I’m sure many parents felt when seeing your comment.
13
Stillbirths do not occur in ten percent of full term pregnancies.
The statistic is closer to one in 160 pregnancies ending in fetal death - and even then most of these take place sometime after twenty weeks but well before labor. Yes, it's an absolutely horrifying and devastating end to a much wanted pregnancy but nowhere near as sad as one out of ten. I'll just assume that this was a bad auto-correct.
3
Oh my you are so right.
what has happened to adults in our nation?
Why are we so afraid to be confronted by realities?
Why can't we even wait to actually WATCH the full movie before we thrash it?
Maybe it deserves to be thrashed, or maybe it will open some eyes.
Maybe it will make some women say "oh, I need help", maybe it will make others feel so grateful to be spared. And become a bit more compassionate.
Whatever the case, could we please stop hiding from unpleasant facts of life?
They don't go away just because we don't experience them ourselves.
60
In answer to your question about what happened to adults in our nation: a vast number of millennials were parented through their 20s and never had to take responsibility for anything, so the concept of being an "adult" is completely foreign to them. There are now classes in what is called "adulting" (yes, millennials made it a verb) so that they can try to learn to do basic things like make dinner and save money to buy a home. This really exists, you can google it. Advanced "adulting" - things like dealing with complex emotions, hasn't been taught to them yet, and likely never will be. They would likely find the whole idea of it repugnant and too "triggering" and most importantly, not Instagrammable, which is the central criteria for all things in their lives. Which is precisely the problem with this film for many people - it is not a happy, pretty, and Instagram-friendly promotion of their fabulous mommy blog fictional self.
11
So basically DA we have a generation of delicate little flowers who can't or won't deal with reality. Well here's a newsflash for them they had better start growing up and quick. The world doesn't wait and neither will the rest of us.
You are absolutely correct. I believe this analysis is a superb summary of the problem. And it IS a problem.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the...
1
Perhaps we should be thankful that the director is not being accused of "gender appropriation" for telling a story about something he did/could not experience. This is exactly why demagogues like Jordan Peterson are gaining a huge audience. I consider myself Leftist, closer to Chomsky than to Clinton on the progressive spectrum. If I am sick and tired of hearing about how my fellow progressives keep getting "triggered" everyday by, well, anything from white people curating African art to incorrect pronouns for "non-binary" persons to movies with disturbing scenes, then I can't even imagine how the middle America feels.
77
Steve: the current "trigger" and "misappropriation" today is the exaggerated response of some folks on social media to a girl who wore a cheongsam to her high school prom. So really, today you are expected to flip out over EVERYTHING, no matter how trivial.
2
I haven't seen this movie, so I can't speak to whether the criticism is warranted. Still, I respect and admire Diablo Cody's attempts to create fresh and meaningful stories for and about women. "Juno" managed to be cute and quirky without forcing those qualities onto its teen protagonist. "Jennifer's Body" was a reappropriation of the teenage female narrative in the context of horror movies. "Young Adult" seemed dark and weird at least in part because it dealt with a time in a woman's life that is almost never considered outside of romantic comedies. Now here's a story about motherhood and psychosis. This topic has presumably been around since the beginning of humanity, yet it seems a novel idea for a film. (Why is that?) Kudos to Cody for tackling a difficult subject.
31
It's a movie. You don't have to like it. Ms. Cody is not presuming or pretending to be a psychiatrist or mental health expert. She is telling a story, and she has every right to tell it the way she wants to. She's not the official spokesperson for post partum mental health, she's a screenwriter. Period. I don't recall anyone having "issues" with George Clooney's character's mental health in Solaris, for one example.
74
Life is triggering. Get over it.
96
Trigger warnings for movies now?
Rated: R
Triggers: If you've ever known anyone with the baby blues please avoid because this could trigger sad feelings.
39
I know Diablo Cody couldn't care less about accuracy but if the movie portrays Marlo as seeing Tully then she would be having visual hallucinations. While auditory hallucinations are common in major mental disorders like schizophrenia and psychotic depression, visual ones are very rare in them and presence of them indicates either drug use or a major underlying medical problem Any physician who would just blow them off as being just postpartum psychosis would not be providing proper care without searching for that underlying problem.
3
One can have imaginary experiences that are not hallucinations. Dreams, for instance.
1
"But after reading more about the plot, Ms. Whitman decided that the trailer was misleading and wrote an article explaining why she won’t be seeing the film."
I haven't read her article, but after reading this article I have decided not to read it.
142
This is by far my favorite comment. You got me there, Ted.
26
This is one story that probably relates to somebody who did not get a diagnosis and did not get help. Chill!
7
Please for the love of everything holy, can people get over themselves? Art is SUPPOSED to make us think, laugh, cry, and yes, sometimes make us uncomfortable. I bet half the people complaining about this movie haven't even seen it. I say this as a mom, tv producer, childbirth educator and doula who had PPD twice myself. I get it. How may times have viewers cried, screamed, laughed because plots remind them of something THEY went through? Oy.
113
I'm so weary of everyone so worried about "triggers", and becoming upset. Life is hard for everyone! Pain, suffering, death, loss, grief is all part of the human experience. Walking on eggshells trying not to "trigger" something is absurd. Not a single person---white, black, Latino, young, old, special needs, moms, dads, grandpa, uncles, cousins---ALL of us suffer in our own way because life is hard.
120
some people suffer additionally because others don't have a clue about their pain. cancer survivors, widows and widowers, children who've lost a parent have grave losses familiar to us, which makes it easier to not be clueless around them. other losses are less well known, less well understood and less common, making the failure of others to grasp the trauma or even acknowledge it yet another issue to be traumatized about. I tend to be rather stoic but having been close to a few people who have experienced "the terrible horrible" I now have a lot more sympathy about triggers. especially for folks with PTSD, triggers are real.
20
precisely why adults SHOULD see this film!
come away with a better understanding, or at least a bit of compassion who suffer from PPD in a very severe form.
13
That's exactly the problem. It's not PPD. It's postpartum psychosis and it can be deadly. In the movie it is misdiagnosed as PPD as well.
2
Since this movie is not a documentary, I doubt you can make a case against the ending reveal. There probably are people who don't know help is available for the extremes of postpartum depression and psychosis. I would hope the movie opens a more open discussion of this fraught situation. As for people resenting being triggered, I have a hard time indulging that problem. If you want to avoid an upset, I suppose you should stay away from known triggers. However, the world is not going to be managed to salve your problems unless you make it your business to get as much help as you can.
13
The adolescent young woman who surrendered her infant for adoption, in the film Juno, is not the protagonist of this film. Too bad, because the truth is, when the time comes to begin a family, for the millions of women who have surrendered a child, the depression comes slamming in, unannounced. Gratefully, a friend referred me to a Junian therapist who asked after my dreams. The cure was on and grief spilled as though a frozen stream freed of its ice. The body, neither that of the mother nor that of her lost child, heals easily from such a primal, cultural sanctioned, wound.
4
I think you mean Jungian.
1
I find this article triggering.
Apparently, fiction (fiction!) that doesn't deliver the "correct" message and promote a social ideal -- everyone being conscientious and healthy, and pursuing any treatment/services that are currently endorsed -- is irresponsible and should be condemned. It's especially galling that many of these rebukes come from people who haven't seen the film, but are nonetheless allowing themselves to be swept up in this wave of social media indignation. See the movie, and then compose a reasoned objection to the narrative if you find it illogical or unrealistic. Or don't see the movie, and shut up.
If a fairly benign switcheroo in a film storyline (a la "Beautiful Mind") is enough to spark a legitimate emotional crisis, then the response shouldn't be to warn people away from the film, but to get additional help.
85
Holly V, what role does sexism - the untouchable/fragile concept of the sacred mother - play here. Beautiful Minds is the perfect analogy. Were successful men triggered by that?
5
They found the ending upsetting. In that case, the movie needs to be censored. We wouldn't want anything to be published that someone might find upsetting.
33
People need to get over their triggers; don't go see the film if you don't think you'll like it.
It's a work of fiction. To presume offense is to imagine you are important enough to be the sole audience of the material, a fantasy of narcissism.
Those who have trouble with fiction probably have trouble dealing with reality too. Pity for them.
52
The point isn't political correctness, it's missed opportunity. I'm glad the discussion is happening about postpartum psychosis, which is what the character in this film is suffering from. As someone who suffered pretty severe postpartum depression, I don't see anything wrong with making a movie about how whacked out it can make you, and even laughing a little about it if you can. The trouble is the film is being marketed as "an earnest tribute to real motherhood," reinforcing the false notion that this is what motherhood looks like. It's not. This is what postpartum psychosis looks like, and failing to identify it in the film does a disservice to the people who could probably otherwise really get behind this film. Don't market your movie toward "real moms" and then take umbrage when that market calls out your lack of research/forethought.
28
Perhaps Erin, but maybe people should see the movie before having a mental breakdown over its content?
22
Isn't postpartum psychosis, by definition, at least a potential part of "real motherhood?"
10
Agreed, and I don't believe in censoring the film or getting all bent out of shape about it, but I'm glad for the discussion. I don't need some director to be sensitive about my condition in her art. But I do wish more people could understand the isolation, pain and flat-out crazy that PPD and its various forms can take. Anyone who did would never say, "get over yourself." If Diablo Cody or Charlize Theron want to make good on the discussion they started, perhaps they'll throw some fame or weight to the cause of postpartum screenings and support. Like it or not, they created this buzz. Whether they use it for good will reveal their true colors on whether they care about this issue or just about their movie.
1
This movie should be seen by any expectant mother. Depression, psychosis, whatever, needs to be recognized immediately. No chances should be taken here. My mother, after having her 4th child in 8 years, committed suicide due to un-diagnosed postpartum depression. This death left 4 motherless children, I being the oldest, who have struggled our entire lives due to this tragic death. This was in 1949 when suicide was a taboo subject and very little was discussed with regard to her death by anyone. From what I understand, she was brought to the hospital and put in a regular room. As soon as my father left, she jumped out the window. I believe she was brought there because she was having some emotional un-diagnosed emotional problems.. Unfortunately, we were never told what happened. I'm not sure the concept of postpartum depression even existed at the time. It left a gigantic void in all of our lives which never really got filled. If the Tully in the story prevented suicide, so be it. Childbirth should be a happy time, however, hormonal changes and possibly other unresolved issued can crop up unexpectantly. This issue should be taken very seriously and be a part of every expectant mother's treatment right from the beginning of any pregnancy.
89
I am so so sorry to read about what happened to your mother. Because of the advocacy work I do, I've heard far too many stories like this. Each one breaks my heart anew. Although it is impossible to tell at this point whether your mom had depression or psychosis, I think one of the biggest complaints about the movie is that it does not distinguish between these. In real life, lack of awareness about the difference between these illnesses contributes to maternal suicide. I hope those involved in the production and promotion of this movie decide to turn this around by using this as an opportunity to raise awareness.
3
As a woman in her 30's who does not have, nor want, children, I hope this movie opens eyes rather than causing a myriad of side-eye.
Pregnancy and motherhood is so often looked at as a blip on the radar for women to just "deal with". Got a problem? "Figure it out - you were biologically made to do this, anyway!" This assumption and narrative is what causes society to overlook and underestimate the impact pregnancy and motherhood has on women's mind, body and soul.
Motherhood is - hands down - the hardest job in the world. And the hardest job in the world deserves more than just facebook empathy - it deserves a voice for help and resources free of stigma. It that can be opened by a movie such as Tully, so be it, I say.
53
I'm with you. I had 4 biological children and raised 2 other stepchildren. It was the hardest thing I ever did. Make life altering decisions for other human beings is no easy task. No matter how hard a job is, there is nothing like the job of raising children, especially when they are sick or have special needs.
17
If I may add a corollary: there needs to be more honesty about the difficulties of having kids. My whole life, I'd only heard how AMAZING it was. I didn't hear "just deal with it," I heard disappointed sighs of, "Whaaaat? But this is the best time of your life! You'll miss these days!" I spent the first five years of my daughter's life regretting having her, feeling betrayed by my fellow women, and feeling like a failure of a human because I hated it so much. (PS, she's 11 now. We all survived and I actually dig her a lot.)
6
I'm a working mother juggling work and two kids under the age of 5. I've had friends who had to deal with postpartum depression. A lot of mothers, especially new mothers, do need help and support. The whole idea of Tully being a support sounds great until the revelation that she is not real. If this is the big reveal of this movie, it is disturbing to me, and I will choose not to see it.
7
So movies are only legitimate and worthy of attention if they align with your personal world view and sensitivities?
29
Charmaine said she could tell the movie would be *disturbing* to HER and that she chooses not to see it. Who are you to judge someone's decision not to disturb themselves? Do you also judge veterans with PTSD who choose not to watch violent war movies?
6
Where did she say it wasn't legitimate or worthy of attention? She said "it is disturbing to me and I will not see it." I watched exorcisms as a child, and if I know a movie is about demon possession, I won't see it because it'll disturb the hell out of me and it's not worth the insomnia. No judgment on the legitimacy and worthiness of the film.
4