Has any "stop and frisk" resulted in a shooting of a black man by a cop? I ask this question because I am thinking that if the federal district court had not ruled that stop and frisk was unconstitutional or if NYC had appealed the decision and got it reversed rather than let it stand, Mr Thrasher might have been spared his anxiety about being followed by the cops and the cops spared their anxiety about him if they had simply acted on it, stopped and frisked him and then let him go on his way, provided of course that he was carrying a weapon without a permit. And since he was in no big rush, he could have had a pleasant chat with a couple of cops for a couple of minutes and helped improve race relations instead of acting like he was
2
I'm not buying any of this "waiting while black" hysteria. Looks like these guys were told that the restroom was for customers only, and they became indignant and decided to make a point by taking up a table without buying anything, and it escalated from there.
According to the (black) chief of police, there was no civil discussion about waiting for a friend so they could apparently all buy their coffees at the same time. It was more along the lines of, "go ahead, call the cops". Why aren't we hearing the manager's side? Where's the security tape showing how long they really sat there? (somehow I doubt it was 2 minutes).
22
If black Americans stopped committing a disproportionate number of crimes in this country, "discrimination"--including police discrimination--would subside substantially. This is a cultural problem, involving poverty and established patterns of drug abuse, teen pregnancies, and single-parent households, rather than institutional discrimination within police departments.
Racial profiling is not unreasonable; in fact, when your job is to arrest criminals, it's actually reasonable if the majority of convicted criminals have a particular, visible trait. ALL men make me nervous when I'm walking around alone after dark on city streets, not just black men. I don't think that makes me sexist, given the fact that most rapists are male.
The Starbucks incident was regrettable; however, it was noteworthy enough to make international news. Isn't that the way we want it to be? Far better to make the news than to be so commonplace as to be unremarked upon.
9
The endless banter about this incident means everyone will be walking on ever thinner eggshells and further contributes to the sickness of political correctness. Our relationships with each other become ever more distorted and distant.
With mobile phone cameras and digital media we can now all frame every event in our lives, and others, to our liking and spread it everywhere.
Ironically the advent of the iPhone instead of revolutionizing telephony revolutionized videography and race relations.
11
Many of us are jumping at the bait of an easy, obvious target for our anxious need to pretend we're activists.
This time, It's Starbucks.
But yelling at a captive choir is much easier than going out and engaging the element(s) that have not yet walked into the church of their own accord, and who may be very far from ever considering that they should.
Addressing entrenched misguided attitudes is not done with a training class or 2, as much as we would like to pat ourselves on that back for apparently "doing something about it" --especially when we won't even address the inconvenient (to this incident) fact that bathrooms in restaurants are for paying customers; a fact every child should know quite well.
So if you're tiring of hearing about people's "thoughts and prayers whenever there's a gun atrocity, you should be ready to draw a parallel here, and recognize that the real solution requires hard daily, individualized work, starting before kindergarten, in the home. We must start ALL behaving like responsible adults, and teach regularly by deed AND word in the home. The sooner we begin, the sooner we can start mending this deep fault within ourselves.
Starbucks is definitely NOT the problem here.
8
Why do so many commenters ignore the fact that the two blacks told the manager that, no, they didn't want to order coffee.
Starbucks in in business. It is not a public convenience.
Shame on the people who would start a race riot over this storm in a coffee cup.
18
Here's something you may have overlooked, at any given Starbucks on any given day there are numerous laptop-users who have no problem with remaining there all day without ordering a cup of coffee as soon as they enter the establishment.
You're also overlooking the fact that there's an obvious race problem in America, which somehow isn't surprising since denial is a large part of it.
16
So Mr. Thrasher, if I were walking down the street and 2 black men began to follow me and I feared for my life because they are black am I now considered to be a racist? Just wondering
10
rich g, if they are not threatening you in any way, and you are fearful just because they are black, "yes", you are a racist by definition.
10
Just because Starbucks management has gone supine doesn't mean this situation wasn't he said - she said, with the truth still out there unknown.
8
Steven W. Thrasher says that it is not irrational for him to fear police officers. We can also make a very rational argument that the crime rate of the black underclass is FAR out of proportion to its share of the population and their fellow Americans of ALL races, police and civilians, will sometimes overreact out of fear. Contrary to Thrasher's view, the average black criminal is not a political prisoner or a victim of antebellum or Jim Crow racial codes. Sure, this high crime rate means that sometimes innocent people will be victimized by the general public's fear of black criminals. However, any attempt to solve the problem that ignores the extraordinary high black crime rate while proclaiming the problem to be entirely in the "racist" minds of individuals (white or otherwise) will certainly fail as another exercise in political correctness.
13
Apowell232, you should say arrest rate not crime rate. plenty of white people who use drugs illegally do not get arrested like black drug users do.
3
It appears that Mr. Thrasher suffers from a misplaced sense of paranoia. He is much, much more likely to be shot by a fellow black man than he is by a (presumably) white police officer.
16
When a black or brown person is followed down the street by the police they’re afraid. When a white, yellow, brown or black person is followed diwn the street by black or brown people they are afraid because they commit the majority of crimes.
11
Muslims are disproportionately responsible for terrorism thus profiled around the world. Blacks and Latinos are disproportionately responsible for crimes around US so they are profiled. It really is that simple. Maybe Black and Latino boys and men need to learn responsibility and give up criminal ways.
Btw, I used to be liberal, until subjected to crime by the groups mentioned.
10
1. a liberal is a conservative that hasn't been robbed yet.
2. 'If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain' Winston Churchill
7
Truth!
1
A mighty Woman with a torch,
At our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
Give me your tired, your poor,
Land of the free, Home of the brave
Oh beautiful for spacious skys
Sweet land of liberty,
And crown thy good, with brotherhood
Long may our land be bright, with freedom's holy light
From sea to shining sea
Amber waves of grain,
from the gulfstream waters to the redwood forests
As I go walking that freedom highway
In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
Is this land made for you and me?
2
The ultra liberals will get Donald Trump reelected. Just like in the last election many fail to understand that that this country is center left or center right. Time to give some credit to this country that elected and then reelected a black man.
6
Just because America elected a Black man doesn't mean the problem of racism has gone away -- just take a look at his successor and the kind of rhetoric he used to get elected.
It's not the "ultra liberals" who will vote for him.
3
I am done with Starbucks. Today I saved $6 and purchased a 2lb bag of coffee for $14 instead of the $19.99 I have shelled out for Starbucks for the last 5 years. Any company that has so many racists in their empty that they need to train every last one of them to be nice to black people is a company I can no longer support. Sorry.
2
Maybe the day will come when hoodies become an obsolete fashion item. Maybe the day will come when loudly-played rap music will stop using the N-word. Maybe the day will come when negative body language (based on the false premise that EVERYONE is a racist) will be shed.
Maybe the day will come when positive news stories start to appear commending (the vast majority) positive human inter-actions, irrespective of the color of the persons involved.
Maybe, when that day comes, the NY Times will be there to cover it.
8
I liked the article, except for the "machinegun" phrasing.
Your average citizen cannot open-carry a "machinegun." Maybe the word "weapon" or "firearm" would have been better.
Wordsmithing an overall good and thoughtful piece.
3
White people never seem to see the color black. They just see people. Right.
6
What would white Americans think and do if black Americans showed up at a park in Dallas or Houston with their AR-15s (TX is an open carry state) and had a picnic. OK for white supremacists to walk down streets with swagger and loaded weapons fomenting hate toward people of color or non Christian religions and the police stand by. And blacks jaywalking or sitting in a Starbucks are arrested with fear of death. The hypocrisy of our nation is stunning and if white America doesn’t want to understand this, we are in sorry shape as a nation.
8
Let's face the sad truth, white people don't get it, won't get it, can't get it - because they don't have to and don't care to. Simple as that. This system benefits them, written for them, built for them, sustained by them. Why would they ever want to change it? They wouldn't, they won't, they don't.
6
Thrasher talks about his cautious movements while passing by some police. "My fear was not irrational." Let's look at that. Per FBI's Table 43, there were 258 blacks killed by police in 2015. The number of arrests was 2,197,140. So the chance of a black person being killed by police at 1 in 8,516 ... or about 0.01%. Does fear of those odds sound rational ?
Jesse Jackson said, "“There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” Thrasher implies that police excessive scrutiny of blacks is racist. Is Jesse Jackson racist ? No ! But his fear comports with the data. Blacks are 7x as likely to commit murder as whites - even according to the Dep of Justice reporting to Holder and Obama.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
For similar reasons, blacks are more likely to attend schools with metal detectors. Mayor Bloomberg once said, "We disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little."
Contrary to Thrasher's assertion, fear is not rational. We are naturally risk averse - especially regarding physical harm. Of course, the ideal would be to get to know each person as an individual. But the simple fact is that institutions and individuals must often rely upon group characteristics. This is patently unfair to those like Thrasher who have done nothing wrong. But ignoring the need to assess risk is naive.
14
Articles like this are why Trump is president.
8
yes Brian, white people, of which I am one, would prefer to hurt their economic situation, damage their environment and scapegoat immigrants than admit to themselves blacks have been treated in ways that are much worse than whites since the 1600's to the present.
2
Any way you look at it, America just can't seem to get past its racism problem.
That's why to most Black folks, what recently happened at a Starbucks in Philadelphia is really nothing new -- in fact, it's de rigueur and thta's why it's rather amusing to think that shutting down their stores for one day of training is somehow going to rectify this country's racist past which began almost 400 years ago, when the first Black slave ship docked in Jamestown, Va. in 1619.
Of course it doesn't help matters that this country currently has a president who has done little to hide his own brand of bigotry.
That's why it will take more than a cup of coffee and a few hours of training to solve this problem.
7
Jon Stewart had a segment entitled “Race/Off" on The Daily Show.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ufqeuz/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-rac...
It’s brilliant and it won him an Emmy. He showed the complete difference between the way black people are harassed and how whites are allowed to just live.
At the end of the piece Jon said:
“If you’re white and are tired of hearing about these run-ins each day, think how EXHAUSTED it is to LIVE this every single day!”
If you’re white you will NEVER understand what our black brothers and sisters go through. Here’s a hint! Don’t write a comment on why the black people MUST have been doing something wrong! For once stay silent and get the facts first before spouting off.
5
The fact is that many white people are fearful of Black Men. I guess you could call that prejudice.
But in our city, most of the crime originates from that group. That is a fact.
11
Ive often said that the fastest way to change the NRA and GET Gun Control would be for many, many Black People to buy Guns. And open carry, where allowed. Let's try it. Seriously.
2
So eloquent. And the police couldn’t care less. Not even the black ones.
1
Most of the Starbucks stores I patronize are in Manhattan, usually midtown Manhattan. They are mostly staffed by blacks -- with some Hispanics and a very few whites and Asians mixed in. I assume from the reaction to the Philly incident that the manager was white. Maybe the key is to hire more blacks and fewer whites.
I have not counted the number of articles related to this incident published in the NYTimes.
So, I wonder, how much attention did the NYTimes give to this horrible police shooting of Daniel Shaver in Mesa, Arizona a few months ago? It's all caught on video. Question: Was this man murdered by the police?
Why the huge discrepancy in how police act and their reporting in this paper, and not just in this instance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j309yxGPgFY
1
So many articles about racism, the disproportionate number of African Americans in prison and the horrible treatment of them by the police. But the elephant in the room is the one, that, if mentioned, usually results in being labeled ‘racist’...so it remains the unspoken elephant in the room. I watch the local news every night of the week. I know that African Americans make up about 13% of the tri-state New York area, but their numbers of arrest are much higher. By my own estimates based on the nightly news in this area, African Americans make up, at least, 90% of the arrests. If 90% of all arrests were Asians or Hasidim, do we really believe that bringing up that fact would automatically label us as ‘racist’ ? If we really need to have an open conversation on the subject, then the ‘elephant in the room’ must be part of it.
10
The case of two man arrested because (?) of their skin color is being enthusiastically overblown by the press. About one to two years ago, a law was passed in Indiana that would have essentially allowed businesses to post such signs as "straight white gentiles only". The law was repealed before any such signs went up.
Many of the comments to this story clearly indicate the initial inability, or unwillingness, of the writers to acknowledge the hard-wired place of white privilege existing throughout American society, and the oppression both overt and covert of our fellow black citizens that results from that core aspect.
It is profoundly disturbing that many white Americans do not even acknowledge that basic racial fact existing in this country. How can human empathy for and understanding of the daily injustices faced by black Americans grow to correct our "original sin" in its present day multitude of manifestations if this first step is not taken?
6
At 66 I am fed up entirely with my fellow white citizens who refuse to recognize their own bias. I just has to stop. When the person who thanked the cops for doing their jobs has to worry about being SHOT, then I think you will have something to contribute to the discussion. Sage55 says it best - we should all be outraged by the Starbucks incident. I can go into a Starbucks in any neighborhood and ask to use the bathroom, and be permitted. I can wait for over an hour in a restaurant. My friends of all colors should have the same rights. Please stop trying to justify what happened in Philadelphia by quoting trespass laws. I would bet you quoted the same nonsense when Trayvon Martin was shot. The "crime" is walking while black, driving while black, sitting while black.
8
No less of a race-baiter than Jesse Jackson--has admitted to crossing the street, to avoid passing near young Black men. Would we think him a bigot?
The Left wants to blame this fear on racism--when more often it's a rational concern about a culture of violence--and high crimes rate in many Black communities. Unfortunately, misidentifying the real cause of this fear (as racism), cloaks the much larger problem the needs to be confronted--with honesty about why there is so much violence in some black areas.
8
I find the entire bloody thing amazing!
Given the response, I can only conclude that: Americans, including Blacks and Hispanics, are ADDICTED to Starbucks coffee!
Why else all the editorials, columns, and protests?
My personal enforceable solution?
NEVER AGAIN FREQUENT OR PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM STARBUCKS.
If Starbucks "turns it around," I will never again frequent or purchase ANYTHING from Starbucks.
Let Starbucks, yes, and all its "innocent" employees, go out of business. Period.
No consequences; no universal discontinuation of bad behavior.
Starbucks is not the problem: That we are a nation of children in constant need of stimulation and satisfaction who are unwilling to sacrifice ANYTHING towards a solution, is the problem.
You go to work Monday: DON'T GO TO STARBUCKS!
Or go to Starbucks. Just don't pretend there's a debate or discussion worth having about Starbuck's employees' behavior; there isn't. Shop there or don't; that's it.
Trust me: If the taps stop flowing at Starbucks because of an act of discrimination, you won't have to lecture many others treating everyone with respect. Either you're willing to switch brands, or not. Not a debate. Do what you want. Just don't bother me with your prevarications.
Perfect example: 50,000 rapes a year in the military. In 2018, "women" are INDISPENSABLE: Their presence is not an option. Date certain: Take rape out of the chain of command or we go on strike!
Bump Starbucks!
3
Unfortunately for black people, some of the stereotypes bleed into reality. In Trenton, blacks regularly jaywalk. They actually make it a game of chicken with motorists, staring them down or pretending not to notice their cars approaching as they zigzag across the streets. It contributes to the fear and loathing that people have for Trenton, and it contributes to the city's perpetual downturn. Many whites are so afraid of Trenton, they won't go there. If you think you can jaywalk and not arouse hatred and suspicion, you're wrong. You just have to realize that others have robbed you of the freedom.
7
No offense. But it sounds like you need to get out of Trenton more often.
Not all Black people are not alike.
4
Also not mentioned I any of this is that the arresting officers were black too.
8
They are police first and black second. My observation after 7 decades is that the principal reason anyone becomes a cop is to acquire the power to step on the necks of other people.
5
I don't know what it is like to be Black and be asked to leave business, while sitting inside. I do know what it is like being a customer and accosted inside a business.
.
And, there is this today from CBS Los Angeles, "VENTURA (CBSLA) – A man stabbed in the neck while sitting with his young daughter on his lap at a Ventura steakhouse Wednesday night has died, and a 49-year-old homeless man was arrested in what’s believed to be a random attack."
.
I guess we all have our own story.
4
Heartbreaking story. Not sure readers here will much care, since the victim was white...
5
"[L]oitering, the crime so many white Americans have argued justified the arrest of the men in Starbucks"
Sorry to spoil the pitty party of righteous high indignation but, if any white people have argued that it is an insubstantial few - only relevant to thise who will troll the intimate internet looking for fodder for their self pitty ("If we did that the left/right would go crazy") like Sean Hannitty whenever a far edge comedian says something extreme about Trump.
Anyway, no one says loitering justified the two mens treatment
1
"The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law."
What happened at the Philadelphia Starbucks violates Federal law. I'm not familiar with Pennsylvania but I'd be surprised if a similar law isn't in force at the state and municipal levels.
If others -- whites for instance -- can wait for friends at Starbucks, the law says it's discrimination if Blacks aren't allow to do the same.
No doubt Starbuck's lawyers will advise the company to offer a financial settlement to avert a slam dunk legal claim brought against them.
This is 2018. You can be as racist as you want but act on it and the full force and fury of the Civil Rights Act will come crashing down on you.
Until I read some of the comments, I was unaware that "identity politics" was pejorative code for Blacks standing up for their rights in the face of brazen racism.
As for the anecdotal tit for tat of whites reporting various levels of assault committed by Blacks, are people truly oblivious to what conditions foster crime, and that statistically it's white on white and black on black?
Meet the new racism, same as the old racism.
Won't be fooled again.
7
Wrong. Black on white murders outnumber white on black murders: https://nypost.com/2018/03/27/two-men-charged-with-fatally-stabbing-holo...
3
By your twisted logic anyone can walk into a restaurant at any time and sit down, open a book, order nothing, use the bathroom, and take up space. It's a business and they're in the business of making money not providing lounge space for one and all. Maybe white privilege inspires a black sense of entitlement and the idea that rules are racial oppression. Michael Brown is a good example of this.
4
Yes, the Starbucks manager had a racist narrative running through her head when she asked the 2 gentlemen who were taking up real estate and consuming resources in the store without purchasing anything to vacate the premises, and when they refused, she called the police. In the old days we would call these guys bums or freeloaders. Today they're victims .
9
Yes there is racism is America.
People routinely and irrationally accuse every white person, especially white males, of being racist.
Stereotyping an entire group of people, in this case white people, as racist is the ultimate demonstration of racist thinking.
Hopefully, nonwhites will be able someday to overcome their racist thinking and judge white people by the content of their character, rather than the color of their skin.
9
Your misrepresentation of the facts is typical of white racists. Blacks do not dislike "all white people". I know many blacks, as well as Latinos, who are awfully nice to me. Of course there are some racist blacks -- we humans are a flawed species; but as a society there is a double standard. Mass incarceration of blacks is proof positive. I am an old white guy who remembers the fifties, when discrimination in housing was legal and widely practiced. The point is that this country was founded on white supremacy -- 3/5 of a person indeed! Today we have a president who was elected a because tens of millions of Americans regard non-whites as Untermenschen. The Starbucks incident is merely a symptom of the institutional racism which, while not as blatant as it once was, still dictates policy.
4
I wonder how many people know that humanity originated in Africa,
Here's an example of how this system operates in your life on a day-to-day basis --
As you leave for work in the morning, you pass by your doorman. - You smile and say, "Good morning Willie" -- He replies with a smile, "Good morning Mr. Armstead."
You stop to buy your coffee at the usual place, from the nice young lady behind the counter. - As she hands you the coffee, you say - "Good morning Rosa, and how are you today?" - She smiles and replies, "I'm just great Mrs. Paulson. And how are you?"
Feeling great about yourself, you now walk into the lobby of your office building, where you must pass the security guard. As you swipe your security card, you smile and say, "Hey George - what about those Knicks?'" - And he replies, "Gee, I don't know Mr. Richards, they need help."
You exit the elevator, and run into one of the maintenance men - dressed in his blue uniform and carrying some tools. - "Hi Roberto", you say - "Can you stop by my office later, one of the vents is clogged" -- He smiles and replies, "No problem Ms. Davis, I'll stop by later this morning".
On the way to your office, you pass by Accounting, saying hi to Denise, Shawniqua and Carlos. They all return your greeting with, "Good morning Mr Lieberman".
Later, you stop by the mail room to ask Jimmy for a Fed Ex box - and he replies, "Sure Ms Davis".
Now - you head for your executive committee meeting - but somehow there's nobody named Willie, Rosa, Jimmy or Shawniqua sitting at the big conference table...
8
Wow! The yes-butting in some of these comments ao far pretty much says it all. Yes, great that Starbucks is taking action but this problem of assumed criminality of black people is so much bigger than that. I know in my own “diversity” loving gentrifiying neighborhood there are daily post on our FB page about suspicious people walking slowly down the sidewalk. Usually brown or black. Would I have asked the police to check out a guy I assumed was casing houses had he not been black? Sure, we there had been break ins but the guy was just dropped off business cards for landscaping work. Turns out maybe I am a scared white person too. We have to reflect, and we have to stop yes-butting policies that only seem to exist for black and brown people.
2
Black vs White--Should skin color create inverse proportions of opportunity? Doesn't seem right..........
Of my hundreds of encounters with American policing none are worse than when the police are called on you. When a cop pulls me over he’s suspicious of me. When they are called they are coming for you. These are the times I get handcuffed until the police realize that the only crime committed was that I scared a white person with a phone.
24
About the recent ridiculous fracas : the local Police were acting as private security For Starbucks. Lack of common sense, all around. And, a great waste of Taxpayer Funds. Period.
3
The author downplays the Bayesian machines we have operating in our head. What would be his reaction if - in the place of a couple of police officers - he had two black teenagers trailing him with hoodies up and hands thrust deep in their pockets?
Recall what the Rev Jesse Jackson said: “There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody White and feel relieved.”
Overt and disgusting racism is everywhere and it should be eliminated - we don't need to spend our time looking for 'magical' racism at the nearest Starbucks.
5
Steve, it sounds like by Bayesianism you mean something rational. I would submit that the author is both objecting to and in the grip of the Bayesian machine when he says that his fear of the police is "not irrational."
My takeaway from your quotation of Jackson is that he is recognizing, painfully, that what is nice and what the Bayesian machine dictate are not always the same thing.
If that's the case, I think that what you are pointing out in your post is both true and important.
Entrapment ... stop it you're making me side with conservatives. Each incident on its own merits lest we stray from the facts. You're just giving the right ammunition and insulting the legacy of Rosa Parks.
4
Why is this all being blamed on Starbucks, as presented in this headline, if it’s a societal problem?
One employee in one Starbucks makes a huge mistake, and now the whole enterprise is racist?
There is no pattern of discriminatory behavior at Starbucks, so we must assume that people who hate Starbucks find this a nice opportunity to blame the entire company of 7,000 employees for one person’s behavior?
Instead of blaming the person responsible, 7,000 people are now racists? Not to mention the customers, who we must assume are racists too, even the African-American ones, since they frequent what is now supposedly a racist company.
8
I personally know only one person who was arrested for what those men did: She went into a restaurant, asked for a restroom key, and was told told that keys were for customers only; then she refused either to buy anything or to leave. She made a big pest of herself. She was WHITE. She was arrested, and rightfully so IMHO.
Restaurants aren't required to provide public restrooms. Probably we should make public restrooms more available, especially in some places. But to vilify Starbucks is wrong.
And I wonder: Were those Philly guys just getting their kicks, knowing they could have their way with the Starbucks workers who were doing their job? Are they laughing their heads off now?
If I owned a restaurant, I'd need to prepare my workers: Restrooms are for all the public. If you think we're being targeted or tested, give them the keys anyway. If they trash the place, we'll accept it. Will they walk off with the keys, just so they can laugh harder? We'll accept it. And if you really need to say No to someone, Make. Sure. They're. White.
The Philly cops did their jobs well. I know their history; I despised Rizzo. But this wasn't a case of hassling Black people on the street. Not at all.
This isn't about civil rights anymore. I marched for civil rights in the '60's, where it wasn't fashionable or safe. This is different, by a lot. And we're not going to make progress if Black people continue the blame-everything-on-racism game. It's just going to get worse for everyone.
13
They were waiting for a friend to arrive before all purchasing coffee. A white man who had not purchased coffee came out of the bathroom while they were waiting
5
My question is: how many of the employees waiting on customers in the Rittenhouse Square were black?
1
I live in a 90% White neighborhood. Most of the barristas at my local Starbucks are Black. So what are they going to be "trained" to do to me?
5
We Americans are essentially cowards. As a nation we bully other countries. When there is a violent attack far away from America, we cringe and imagine this is about is and an attack upon us is imminent - so we send armed police to patrol our streets, never wondering whether they are meant to keep us safe or fearful. Within our borders we behave similarly - we treat and mindlessly allow police officers to shoot African-Americans first and ask questions later. And then we become fearful of every African-American person. Our police are cowardly bullies, and so is our foreign policy - fear is in our DNA.
2
Article states that 80% of those stopped and frisked are Black or Latino, yet these groups only make up 60% of the population. The jail population on any given day in NYC is 57% Black, 33% Hispanic, and 7% White. And you wonder why Blacks and Hispanics draw more suspicion and are more likely to be detained?
3
I empathize with your experiences. As a white guy the thing I have learned most in the age of videoed police shootings and black lives matter is that the police can often be self serving thugs, liars and killers. Though I have never yet had a problem encounter with the police, I now realize how truly eligible I am to be railroaded or shot.
2
I think it likely that if every white man looked back on his life he would find at least one moment when, had he not been white, he would be in prison or dead.
4
So, two police officers were walking behind you and ... nothing happened.
7
"The entire United States is covered by the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores."
What happened at the Philadelphia Starbucks violates Federal law. I'm not familiar with Pennsylvania but I'd be surprised if a similar law isn't in force at the state and municipal levels. If others -- whites for instance -- can wait for friends at Starbucks, the law says it's discrimination if Blacks aren't allow to do the same. No doubt Starbuck's lawyers will advise the company to offer a financial settlement to avert a slam dunk legal claim brought against them.
This is 2018. You can be as racist as you want but act on it illegally and the full force and fury of the Civil Rights Act will come crashing down on you.
Until I read some of the comments, I was unaware that "identity politics" was pejorative code for Blacks standing up for their rights in the face of brazen racism.
As for the anecdotal tit for tat of whites reporting various levels of assault committed by Blacks, are people truly oblivious to what conditions foster crime, and that statistically it's white on white and black on black?
Meet the new racism, same as the old racism. Don't be fooled again.
2
A white man eating dinner with his family at a local restaurant was shot and killed by a black man in Los Angeles yesterday. The news reports say the two did not know each and it appears to be a random attack. It could also be a racially motivated attack. Aalas, one has yet to read about this crime in the agust pages of the NYT nor will it be said in its pages that white Americans are far more likely to be criminally attacked by blacks than the other way around. The conclusion I draw from this is the problem of racism is much greater among blacks than it is for whites. And the hysteria among some Americans about some trespassers being arrested at Starbucks is simply a distraction.
9
Absolutely spot on! Will any NYT readers or "journalists" care about the white murder victim in Calif? After all, not only was he white, but he was also male....
5
Racism is wrong..no doubt.
Fact is that 40 % of homeless in USA are black.
Philly is no different...huge black community.
This is gonna happen in these places. These guys should not have been harrassed nor arrested, but if yer meeting at Starbucks for" business", then buying something would be the most logical way to justify using space.
There are way better examples of racism and bias then this one, but this just happens to be Starbucks...These guys are on TV acting like they're Rosa Parks or something.
It's not these guys faults that others who resemble them make it more difficult, but others that resemble them unfortunately, made them an easy target.
I've had to clean the bathrooms in places like this Starbucks, it's heinous.
So while I can empathize with how stupid this mgr was for calling the cops, the two guys should have just bought a cup of coffee instead of making a big deal.
And btw, I've dealt with a lot of racism towards me in Philly because I'm white, but thank God I'm from Detroit and been living in and around black neighborhoods my whole life and don't feel that way for all..my neighbors were awesome. I'm just being real.
9
You had me until you said “machine guns” about the Oath Keepers at Ferguson, complete with link.
I read the story twice. What machine guns? A semiauto rifle is not a machine gun. That point has been made ad nauseum and yet here is the exaggeration yet again.
It maybe wouldn’t matter except the author is a doctoral candidate at NYU. Someone of that caliber can be expected to know the difference and be truthful. Now everything else that was in the op-Ed is cast in doubt as well.
Don’t lie. They weren’t machine guns. And now your credibility is ruined.
Same goes for the NYT for printing what is a clear falsehood.
Of course, if I missed the part where actual machine guns were paraded in the streets at Ferguson by the Oath Keepers, and made clear in the linked article, please do quote the paragraph in the linked article.
2
In most commercial establishments the pressure to buy is enormous, it is after all the driver of our capitalist system. Layer on top of that the inherent racism of many people in our country and the Starbucks situation is an example of the coercive nature of our entire society. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness reach a dead end at the bottom line.
3
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a customer in Starbucks to make a purchase to use the restrooms or occupy a table.
16
While it might be reasonable to expect such things, I don't think it is criminal. I also think it is reasonable to wait for your party to arrive before ordering.
6
That is so totally not the point.
6
You do realize that these two men were there as customers, don't you?
4
This is the 8th article in this paper I've read about this incident where anti-black racism may or may not have occurred. On the other hand, there is far more proof DC City Councilman Trayon White is a serious anti-Semite and given the silence of the democratic party it sounds like they are complicit. We've had more condemnation from Democratic officials over this Starbuck incident that incident after incident of anti-Jewish bigotry and use of public funds to donate to Nation of Islam. It should be added that his predecessor Marion Barry exposued similar attitudes towards Asians and this paper didn't cover it, but they did find space for over 25 articles condemning Donald Sterling. When a paper of such esteem as the New York Times finds space to publish 3-4 articls in every issue about incidents involving possible bigotry towards blacks but ignores provable incidents involving blacks that is a problem. Holding a white Starbucks barista to higher standards and scrutiny than black Democratic representative is shameful. Can we train that away Mr Thrasher?
10
Less than a month ago, an elderly Holocaust survivor named Mireille Knoll was murdered for being Jewish in Paris and a year prior another older Jewish lady named Sarah Halimi was thrown through a Paris highrise window, also for being Jewish. NYT ran fewer articles on these two incidents combined than this one Starbucks episode. And I didn't notice NYT or maybe HuffPo readers being particularly upset by them, either.
3
The even deeper and sadder predicament behind the danger of living while black is that black cops in Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Sacramento including the head cop have absorbed and accepted the myths about blacks as danger. See 'The Mis-Education of the Negro ' by Carter G. Woodson.
10
"... that black cops ...have absorbed and accepted the myths about blacks as danger. See 'The Mis-Education of the Negro ' by Carter G. Woodson."
I'm not familiar with Woodson, but I agree this needs to be addressed and studied. My impression FWIW is that the militarization of police since 9/11 probably is a factor, especially since police work is an attractive career option for ex-military, especially African-Americans (who may have fewer other job opportunities). Also, police recruiting practices may target young guys who see police work as an opportunity to gain a certain kind of power that they didn't have before. This issue does need attention. But I don't see it as a factor in the Starbucks case, where the police appear to have behaved professionally.
1
Has it occurred to you that, statistically, maybe they are right?
Evolution has selected your and my ancestors in part on the basis of their ability to assess danger to life and limb, including that from other people. The results may be politically incorrect, but evolution doesn't care.
The black cops you criticize are no different from Jesse Jackson who once said: “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
4
It is so true.
The hatred for blacks and Latinos is deeply rooted in the heart of those so called "Christians": they go to church and think they are good guys; but hell receives them... "warmly."
I have seen white policemen in New York in the 70's going after latinos full of hatred, and people doing nothing ilegal: just oppressing them. Same thing in Texas and its suburbs; particularly Georgetown, Texas.
2
How interesting. First of all, as I take up the mantle of inquiry, let me say that the Starbucks near my home regularly eyes those of any race who enter the store without a purchase, seeking out a restroom usually. They absolutely will confront you, white or not. If I entered the store, sat down at their table and refused to order, that store manager -- and I envision the person right now and lo it's a fearsome visage of corporate order wrapped in a wholesome, Salt Lake City smile -- they'd have my compliance in a New York minute.
And right here, no doubt, is where the flummoxed white folks will stop their inquiry into the event. Similarly, the assertion that if the black driver of the automobile (take your pick of incidents, sadly enough) had only listened and obeyed the officer immediately without even a hint of 'attitude' or the capacity for justified outrage, sometimes referred to as basic human pride (yes, sarcasm just slipped through!), then no harm at all would have befallen the subjects and therefore, yes, it's all the fault of the minority. And it's an arrest. It's a dozen bullets. It's 40 bullets. And it didn't have to happen.
What white folks don't see is that it's the essentialism of young black males as 'dangerous' which turns the minor rebuke from a store manager into a criminal matter, turns the innocuous traffic stop into the shooting death of a school lunch captain.
It may require slightly more than a half-day seminar to get at the issues here.
4
First, there was no bias in your characterization of the manager as "wholesome Salt Lake City"? No anti white hatred there? Now for a few FACTS: Blacks on white homicides outnumber white on black homicides. And I don't see why whites AND cops should disregard their own safety. https://nypost.com/2018/03/27/two-men-charged-with-fatally-stabbing-holo...
2
To Mr. Thrasher, stop complaining. Several points: (1) Statistically, young black men still account for a good deal of crime, especially in inner cities and especially black-on-black crime. I don't think much has changed since the 70s and 80s when I grew up in the NYC area and was mugged a couple of times by (can you guess?) young black men. I have no doubt that upstanding black men experience racial profiling, and that's unfortunate, but understand from whence it derives; (2) As far as other forms of racism, in industry or academia, African Americans are hardly being discriminated. On those fronts, they are enjoying tremendous gains, culminating in the election of the first African-American president ten years ago; (3) Assuming Mr. Thrasher's worldview that we are a racist society, he discounts Starbucks' anti-racial bias training (not that such training would have any impact on racial profiling by the police). In Mr. Thrasher's view, we are irredeemable; there's nothing that Starbucks can do to right the wrong, so why bother?
In the end, the only racism that Mr. Thrasher points out that is current today is racial profiling of young black males -- historically earned. Am I missing something?
By the way, I have to imagine that anyone, black or white, openly carrying a machine gun, would make any cop nervous and suspicious. On that, there is no double standard.
5
Mr Thrasher's over-active imagination, slavery, and Jim Crow are not a context that alters my perception of what happened in the Philadelphia Starbucks. The basic facts of the case are, by now, well known and I can tell you that I, as a middle aged White man, have never been treated that way because I have never behaved that way.
During the whole of my adult life, it has been common knowledge that you have to be a paying customer to use the facilities of a private establishment. On many occasions, I have entered a diner in midtown only so that I or my wife could use their bathroom. I always bought a cup of coffee.
And when the police arrived at the Philadelphia Starbucks, the behavior of the two Black men was inexcusable. They tried to argue with the police??? Frankly, it's a shame there is no law against stupidity. Again, I have never been treated that way because I have never behaved that way. On the several occasions I was given a direct order by a policeman, I obeyed, and went about by business.
To be perfectly blunt, one of my greatest aspirations in life is to have no entanglement of any kind with the criminal justice system. I advised my son accordingly, and I highly recommend this course of action to Mr Thrasher.
19
Wow. I estimate I have easily used the restroom hundreds of times in various establishments without buying anything. Probably in the high-hundreds. I once spent 40 minutes in a McDonalds to get out of the rain-- even ate a vending machine snack at the table. Not only have I never been arrested for this, I have never even been called out on it. I have also waited for my party before I ordered numerous times. I guess I need to face the music and admit, the world is far worse for having me in it.
12
I am surprised that this racist comment get a a times star. The author states we are in a police state and must obey accordingly or be punished. Abd that's fine with him. How depressing you immoral is that? And he compounds this immorality by blithely presuming that race is irrelevant, based on no evidence whatsoever. Altogether a very foolish and dangerous comment. And I agree that the article is overwrought. But overwrought is what you tend to get in the face of racism.
8
Bravo! A +.
Every kid in America should have a laminated copy of this comment hanging on their wall.
2
I have been pulled over or stopped by policemen several times in my life. I am White.
I cannot comment on what the police "were thinking" about me or my "presumed guilt". I can only react, and react to their presence as someone who is unacquainted with its reality.
My palms did sweat, behavior became more defensive, heart racing.
And I became fully compliant.
That is how a White person with little exposure to law enforcement naturally responds to being stopped or questioned by a police officer.
I have never thrown anything at a police officer, taunted one or resisted arrest. I am not familiar to a police department as a habitual arrestee or criminal (or petty thief). I am not one who is known in the neighborhood as a dealer or member of a gang that causes unending trouble for the residents. I don't walk with my head covered by a hoodie or baseball cap. My pants are around my waist, not 8 inches dropped and bunched around my ankles (to imitate a convict who has lost his belt, I was told by one of my kids).
Urban Blacks have created a stereotype. It is misogynistic (if you listen to rap lyrics), criminal (if you abide by the dress code), menacing (if you consider the way in which faces are hidden from view), and repeated across social media and in music.
I am quite sure that fearful Whites with no slaveowners in their family history are eager to have a little help from across the racial divide at speaking to this discriminatory treatment.
Blacks can lead, also.
7
"Urban Blacks have created a stereotype" ... And what, pray tell is that?
It is precisely these kind of false generalizations that perpetuate the problem we're reading about here.
1
A third time at paragraphing:
Interesting deep-background history lesson about what happened back in the day before Starbucks opened its doors in Seattle, but “loitering, the crime so many white Americans have argued justified the arrest of the men in Starbucks” has nothing do with what happened at Starbucks. It was about policy. “Please order, or perhaps a different restaurant.”
“My fear,” Thrasher tells us, “was also related to a problem much bigger than what happened at Starbucks”--that, perhaps, police officers have no right to arrest individuals who refuse to obey their orders? That business owners have no right to ask individuals who wish to buy nothing to leave their facility?
More important, despite the intended cultural Marxist equality bent, this had nothing to do with race, but rather self-serving squatter's rights. Of course, Starbucks CEO, Kevin Johnson, a white guy from the Bay Area, filled with fear and self-loathing, it seemed by the looks of him, had not the courage to tell us that it was Starbucks’ policy to ask people to leave if they don’t wish to buy anything, and, it follows, if that doesn’t work, to call the police.
So what to do in the future? Same thing. Ask them politely to leave if they don’t wish to order anything. Give them a few minutes to gather their things and go. If that doesn’t work, call 9-1-1.
When the police are afraid to enforce the law--time to close the business and move elsewhere.
4
I agree with the author - only "hidden bias training" will not be sufficient, fundamental look at the white culture is needed. Let me tell an incident that happened at New York during millennium celebration. To establish the harmony between the different faiths in the new millennium all the heads of different religions met at New York for interfaith resolution. All along the time resolution included the term "tolerance" between the different religions. This time the Eastern religion heads become bold enough and asked to change it to "mutual respect". The term "tolerance" in interfaith came from Middle Ages in Europe when different religious domination was fighting against each other and to get peace between two states the term "tolerance" was used. There was resistance against the change from the Catholic Church and it seemed the convention was doomed. Finally agreement reached and the interfaith resolution passed with the term "mutual respect". Though Vatican shortly clarified their point that this does not mean equality of all faith groups - Catholic Church is still the final destination for all faithful. The white America "tolerate" black and brown people, it never "respected" them. The culture of deep sense of "artificial superiority" need to be uprooted - "declaration of independance" can not be the mask for this ignorant cultural realization.
2
Does Starbucks really have an 8,000 store problem? Is Thrasher seriously contending there is not a Starbucks in NYC where he wouldn't feel safe typing away on his computer for an hour without buying coffee?
4
When, oh when, are we going to make it a societal norm that we depart from race? As in, we are but one human race. The pseudoscientific, persistent and pernicious concepts used to partition humanity on the basis of gradations of color and other very superficial traits need to be abandoned. Because many people already don't care. They will fall in love and marry whomever they wish to and what will their offspring be? Humans.
1
I see racism in this situation, but not on the part of Starbucks. What is wrong with a business insisting that a person must be a customer in order to avail them self of the business' facilities, be it restrooms or air conditioning? It actually sounds normal to me. What sounds racist is for two men to insist that they do not have to comply, because they are Black. And then to again refuse to comply when the police arrive. No one seems to care how often this may happen or to who. The fact that this time it is two Black men, that is all everyone seems to need to call it racist. So who are the racist? The business that is simply following rules, that most businesses have, or the public who just assumed that if two Black men were not happy with the situation, it must be racism?
8
This and other news stories about this matter seem to assume that almost no Starbucks employees are black. Is that true? If so, it sounds like a yet more important question.
Your feelings of anxiousness as you walked home were certainly understandable however in your mind you immediately thought something bad was going to happen. Was that prompted merely by the fact they the officers were walking behind you?
Slavery, and the racism that allowed it, is this country's original sin. While the institution of slavery is gone, the racism that enabled it has never fully dissipated. It has seeped into the fabric of our consciousness, both individually and collectively. It manifests itself, almost genetically, with differing phenotypic expression from overt racist to the subtle forms as seen from this recent example at Starbucks. It is insidious, persistent and resilient. It hardens the heart and affects judgement. While laws may help protect against overt forms of racism and discrimination, ironically, it is our own criminal justice system that has been responsible for the killing and modern day enslavement/incarceration of a disproportionate number of minorities. A not insignificant reason for this racial tension in society can be traced directly to the economic injustices and inequality that exists. This creates a medium within which racial differences, and animosities, are amplified. I'm reminded of when my Italian grandfather, a construction worker, would be shut out of jobs by the Irish foreman. Blacks had it even worse in the job pickings. But while ethnic conflicts have mostly dissipated, the racial aspects are still alive and well. Blacks are still shut out of economic opportunities. We need to address both these economic and criminal justice problems that prevent equal participation and protection of a large segment of our society. If we do, we will all be better off for it.
To conclude from one incident at one Starbucks is the result of systemic racism at all Starbucks coffee shops much less throughout all of one's encounters with every white person including police officers is either paranoia or emotional blather. Does Mr. Thrasher truly believe this? If so, I feel sorry for him.
3
I'm no lover of any megacorporation, but the carping on Starbucks is beyond ridiculous. After the incident the supervisor was summarily fired and the company closed for a day to re-enforce its company's regulations that cover the issue. Starbucks is one of the most renowned companies for fair wages, benefits, and an inclusive work environment. They are definitely the wrong company to be snared in the race card show. Quit it!!!
6
Training usually occurs without measuring true outcomes. Most racial bias training is snake oil, as is gender discrimination training. You know what definitely works? Firing people. Over and over. Every time there is valid discrimination. Publicly and permanently. Fire people. Actions speak louder than words.
1
Excellent op-ed!
We white people cannot actually understand our oppression of other people. Our first step in eliminating our illness is to recognize that I have a problem, then work to solve it. Personally, I believe that as long as we have groups there will be friction based on that fact, And the only way to defeat the problem is total integration.
2
I agree. More and more intermarriage would be even better.
Backstage crew, let's see if paragraphing works this time:
Interesting deep-background history lesson about what happened back in the day before Starbucks opened its doors in Seattle, but “loitering, the crime so many white Americans have argued justified the arrest of the men in Starbucks” has nothing do with what happened at Starbucks. It was about policy. “Please order, or perhaps a different restaurant.”
“My fear,” Thrasher tells us, “was also related to a problem much bigger than what happened at Starbucks”--that, perhaps, police officers have no right to arrest individuals who refuse to obey their orders? That business owners have no right to ask individuals who wish to buy nothing to leave their facility?
More important, despite the intended cultural Marxist equality bent, this had nothing to do with race, but rather self-serving squatters’ rights. Of course, Starbucks CEO, Kevin Johnson, a white guy from the Bay Area, filled with fear and self-loathing, it seemed by the looks of him, had not the courage to tell us that it was Starbucks’ policy to ask people to leave if they don’t wish to buy anything, and, it follows, if that doesn’t work, to call the police.
So what to do in the future? Same thing. Ask them politely to leave if they don’t wish to order anything. Give them a few minutes to gather their things and go. If that doesn’t work, call 9-1-1.
When the police are afraid to enforce the law–time to close the business and move elsewhere.
1
Most black people recognize that white people will never “get” it, even as they benefit from white supremacy and actively engage in its continuance.
Whites just don't get it. They never will. It's better that we are all blind so our impressions of others aren't biased due to the colors our eyes see. All the training in the world will not change us. We have to first want to change.
2
Much of this perceived racism is just that, perceived.
Many of these people go out into the world looking for it and interpret many benign things as racism.
Constantly thinking about it makes it more difficult to just get on with your life.
3
Racism continues to be this country's stain of sin but it is aggravated by the ethical morass we currently find ourselves in. I don't think it's going too far to say that many people here and in Europe don't even care if appear or they can think of themselves as good or decent people anymore. Trump has unleashed a horrific, insatiable appetite for power and for its brazen display.
Here is another anecdotal piece: About three months after Dinkins became the NYC mayor (January 1990) I was sitting on a bench at 72nd street in Central Park when a black man attacked me while he was, at the same time, uttering racial slurs at me. I had done nothing to him to deserve his attack, but I knew the reason: I had noticed a significant change of "atmosphere" in the city right after Dinkins had become mayor: the blacks felt empowered to harass and attack the white people because the mayor was now their mayor - a black man.
I wish this was the only case of harassment and racially motivated attacks I suffered from blacks while I was living in New York, but unfortunately the worst discrimination I suffered while living in the city came from blacks - at work, on the street, in the parks, in the stores, etc.
Maybe it is time for the whites to also tell their stories of racial discrimination at the hands of the blacks? A little balance seems necessary at this point in time when most articles one reads in the papers are pushing emotional narratives about claimed white discrimination against blacks?
5
May we please stop using ‘Starbucks’ as the horse-camel’s back onto which we can throw any important concern we have about policy policy, structural racism and corporate HR?
2
We’ve seen many examples --- a white person calls cops after seeing a black person doing something, but wouldn’t call if a white was doing it. Cops arrive and shoot after 1 second. They just believe everything the white told them on the phone about a black person.
The black kid playing with a toy gun at a playground, shot dead by cops. The black man in Walmart, shopping for a BB gun, while talking on a cell phone, taking the gun off the shelf and holding it. A customer calls the cops. They arrive and shoot him dead. The Guardian has a detailed article on this awful tragedy.
So 2 things going on---paranoid members of the public who overreact and call 911. And police believe the caller, they don't stop to evaluate, react suitably to the situation, and de-escalate if appropriate.
19
It will take at least three generations to begin to even this out, Sadly enough.
1
Mr. Thrasher alone is responsible for his feelings, not society nor any segment of it. Are we to assume only a major cultural upheaval will assuage his fears and that the rest of us must participate? Perhaps I am not enlightened, but Starbucks is not a public meeting place and as a long-term customer, I can say with confidence that I would not patronize a Starbucks filled with loiterers, regardless of their race, color, or creed.
8
Actually Starbucks IS a public meeting place, as the company's stated policy's and ethos have made clear for years now. They encourage people to think of them as a "third place" after home and work to feel comfortable as a community hangout. That can't be allowed only to some on the basis of race or it is unequal treatment under civil rights law (and abhorrent on a human decency level as well, staining the person who gives in to racist beliefs maybe more than those it touches. )
As for this writer, he clearly states concrete reasons for how he feels. Refusing to hear them is part of the problem.
1
While these descriptions of white supremacy are terrible, this piece fails to offer a path forward, redemption, because this reader wants redemption. White supremacy is a culture and culture can be changed, it’s all we have. Starbucks’ training is by itself insufficient but don’t discount it out of hand. It is a part of changing the culture and as a part of change it can do good. For a good culture reference look at Salesforce.com a 30,000 member company with a culture that will not support white supremacy or gender bias or anything else like it. As terrible as the stories in this piece are, they are not without hope if we choose to see what needs to be done and act. Changing the culture means each one of us needs to change and we can’t wait for others to lead.
1
People who serve the public need to learn that they are going to lose their job if the violate the laws prohibiting discrimination.
1
I read through many of these comments and I'm disappointed so many do not understand this man's point. Why deny it. There is a terrible amount of racism in this country and we must admit it to fix it. We must fix it. Thank you Mr. Thrasher for your piece. I really appreciate you sharing it.
4
If Starbucks had wanted to do something meaningful, the manager would have been fired, instantly. And a very powerful message sent to every Starbucks, that racism will not be tolerated in any form whatsoever. I have not heard that that has happened. Instead, Starbucks is having 'sensitivity' training.
I live in a very rural area in New York State. And I cannot come close to imagining what it would be like to be Black or Latino. Would heads turn and conversation stop as my husband and I walked into our favorite breakfast dinner? And when we go into our local convenience store, would employees think they were about to be robbed? Would employee eyes follow us through department stores, believing that we were going to steal? And what about our local bank? And how would we feel if in our vehicle, a state trooper started following us for no apparent reason?
As a child, I remember seeing George Wallace on tv, and the hatred and violence, displayed as a badge of honor. And all these years later, attitudes have not changed. The widespread racism in this country seems to have exploded during the Trump campaign, and is condoned in his administration.
What a sad commentary on Americans and America.
1
A certain portion of humanity is evil, power-hungry and greedy. Through experience they know that stoking fear in others can enhance their power and greed. We will never stop the evil, it is self sustaining. We need to confront the fear. Millions of Americans have abdicated their right to serenity by accepting the siren song of fear, fear, fear.
When FDR said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" he was talking about the paralysis and inability to think and act that fear induces. We need to regain control of our lives and beliefs. We need to question and refute those who promote fear and hatred as a national policy.
2
This is all about damage control. Ultra-liberal Starbucks has to do something nice to prove to that this was a one-time lapse of judgement and it will never ever happen again. So they'll make a big show out of closing their stores for s day of so called retraining.
3
The two black men arrested in the Starbucks, unknowingly at the time, have become a catalyst for change in one corporation's culture. They evidently decided to commit an act of defiance, refusing to leave the premises, that resulted in their arrests for trespassing. Aside from refusing the police officers' requests to vacate the premises, they obviously conducted themselves in a way that did not escalate the situation. The outcome could have been a lot worse. For this, they and the police officers should be commended.
2
A very well written article to give us all pause to consider our roll in how we treat others and how we want to be treated. How we perceive the world round us is hard-wired from millions of years of evolution, but how we react to our basic instincts isn’t and must not dictate our humanity toward one another.
4
A painful but important read.
And it’s not just anecdotal. In 2006, the United States FBI Counterterrorism unit published a report detailing white supremacist’s infiltration of law enforcement. (Read here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3439212-FBI-White-Supremacist-In...
So in addition to implicit bias which affects people of all races who’ve internalized subconsciously that black = bad, there is a concerted effort to have more white supremacists in uniform.
How does one give blind trust to police in this environment?
2
I still do not have a good understanding of this episode because of poor news reporting, especially by the NYT.
Two men, who happen to be black, enter a Starbucks. 1. One asks to use the bathroom, and is told it is for customers only. Did he reply, "I'm going to be a customer, but first, I need to use the bathroom."? I do this all the time, especially, after hanging onto the poles in the NYC subway. I just want to wash my hands before I handle my food. I often receive the same challenge from staff, but they always accept my explanation.
2. Did they ever indicate that they intended to be customers?
Perhaps the third person, who eventually showed, told them, "Meet me at Starbucks. I'll get the tab." If so, did they explain this to staff?
The details of this situation have been poorly reported. Where can I get the complete information? Obviously, not the NYT.
In the next couple of days, I will be attending a small party, about 8-10 people, at a restaurant. What will happen if we tell the service staff, "We don't want to order anything. We're just here for a meeting."? Do you think we will be asked to leave? What will happen after we refuse to leave?
24
The protocol at Starbucks is not like that of a restaurant. People sit at Starbucks for hours. Most place their first order well after the 2 minutes it took for the officers to arrive. Some people use the tables and never order. Starbucks wants to be a community center, and full tables of people meeting or on their computer is "the look" Starbucks seeks.
2
The point that you miss, which provides essential information about your perspective, is that they should not have had to explain themselves in the first place. The only reason they were questioned is that they were black men. The person presumed they were in the wrong because of how she perceived them---preconceived notions. Textbook and often unconscious, but always unconscionable, racism, which you have clearly never experienced.
2
I call it tactical ambiguity on the part of the press
4
I don’t know if being Asian (and/or female) makes a small difference, but I have never been asked to leave at any coffee shop just because I was waiting for someone. Baristas HAVE been rude to me, but in my experience, it has always been a non-white (and non-Asian) individual. It’s as if they thought it was weird that a 30-something Asian woman would go to Starbucks. Really? I just want coffee. Oh, and my name is CYNTHIA, not Sylvia, Cecilia or even Cintia, Cyntia or Sintia...
15
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to imply here. But just for the record, I've noticed that Baristas (white and non-white) have a tendency to be rude to just about everybody, which is odd because it's only a cup of coffee.
4
It always helps to recognize the ways that American racism is a discrete historical phenomenon, and not just a psycho-social trait.
It bothers me how current civil-rights-lite culture talks about things like “hate.” Because “hate” is a vague, universal quality. Everyone hates some people, and some people hate everybody. That’s not really a political issue.
There are whole neighborhoods full of impoverished black people, to this day. The police are called when blacks linger in the wrong spaces, to this day. This goes beyond the normal kinds of skepticism and hostility that people feel towards those they don’t know or understand well.
It’s a system that is passed on from generation to generation, structuring society and shaping communities in ways that concepts like “bias” and “hate” only begin to describe.
4
There are impoverished neighborhoods of every “group” in America. Just travel to Appalachia to experience majority poor America.
2
Women everywhere and of every color, have known for all their lives that we cannot go into a cafe or food establishment and sit at a table without ordering something. If we say we are waiting for someone we will be told to order something while we wait or to go wait outside, or at the library, or at the bus station, or the court house? You know why we order something? Because it is not safe for a woman or even two women to stand on the side walk waiting for someone. If a woman refused to order and not exit, the same exact thing would happen that happened to those men. That's been going on ever since business have started. So why didn't either of the men order a cheap item?
Nope. I don't think it is racism as much as the men thought they didn't have to adhere to the rules of business because they were men. I think it is more an aspect of male entitlement than it is a racial slur. If they had been women, regardless of their race, one of them would have order a coffee and then they could have sat there without causing a ruckus.
I'm pretty sure this was a staged event to get the attraction it now has. That the planners knew better than to ask women because women would have bought a cup of coffee.
8
Where the heck do you live? I have never had to order while I waited for someone. In a casual place like a Starbucks I've never even been questioned. I've even waited, then left as needed. (And in most places I'm not scared to be outside alone either- again, where on earth do you live?) but more to the point is Starbucks itself encourages people to feel comfortable using them as a community hangout as part of its brand. That can't be unequally applied by law. That's why the CEO knew immediately this was a problem against their policy. Why are you contradicting the actual CEO of the company?
1
Comments to articles always reveal the deep ignorance that prevails in his country and the inability to see beyond one's own circumstance and experience. That this was staged is rich.
1
No. It's racism and the history that engenders it. And all you have to is walk around with dark skin to realize it, both here and in France.
1
Interesting deep-background history lesson about what happened back in the day before Starbucks opened its doors in Seattle, but "loitering, the crime so many white Americans have argued justified the arrest of the men in Starbucks" has nothing do with what happened at Starbucks. It was about policy. "Please order, or perhaps a different restaurant."
"My fear," Thrasher tells us, "was also related to a problem much bigger than what happened at Starbucks"--that, perhaps, police officers have no right to arrest individuals who refuse to obey their orders? That business owners have no right to ask individuals who wish to buy nothing to leave their facility?
More important, despite the intended cultural Marxist equality bent, this had nothing to do with race, but rather self-serving squatter's "rights". Of course, Starbucks CEO, Kevin Johnson, a white guy from the Bay Area, filled with fear and self-loathing, it seemed by the looks of the fellow, had not the courage to tell us that it was Starbucks' policy to ask people to leave if they don't wish to buy anything, and, it follows, if that doesn't work, to call the police.
So what to do in the future? Same thing. Ask them politely to leave if they don't wish to order anything. Give them a few minutes to gather their things and go. If that doesn't work, call 9-1-1.
When the police are afraid to enforce the law, time to close the business and move elsewhere.
10
Because that's not actually Starbucks policy. They explicitly encourage people to treat them as a community hangout.
If that's true--just hang out, no need to buy, with or without an electronic device, book, magazine, or newspaper, seems a perfect homeless day-time shelter--, why didn't Johnson make that point by firing for disregarding policy rather moving the young woman who was managing the Starbucks? More important, he could have told us all--had a world-wide audience to make the point: Starbucks is a hang-out for all. Seems odd he didn't say same when he had the chance.
1
nowadays i use a simple litmus test: when a person of color is killed by police i ask myself if they were white would they still be walking the earth? almost always the answer is yes. if i am a white 12 year old playing with a toy gun in Cleveland no problem. if i'm black i'm Tamir Rice. If i am white and momentarily get out of my car in Tulsa who cares...black, I'm Terence Crutcher. take the test yourself in almost every case where a black has been killed by police ask yourself if the victim had white skin would be alive today. don't ask if you think it was justified or if the police had the "right" to shoot and kill somebody. just imagine the victim as white and what the outcome could have been.
11
Thanks for writing this. It really is that simple.
Where I spend any time out of the country I always notice a certain weight lifted from me. Our national racism is a heavy and intractable burden. It is horrifically painful, for everyone involved.
5
Missing from this piece is the mention that one of the responding Phila police officers was black, which has totally been downplayed by the MSM, because it complicates the racism narrative that the MSM wants to convey.
This whole story is a tempest in a Starbuck's coffee mug.
Racism has not been proven - just reflexively implied. We do not know the race of the store's manager and we have not heard her side of the events. She is probably silent on orders from Starbuck's PC department. So only the 1 side, that of the 2 gentlemen, is reported.
Many people regardless of race are refused access to bathrooms if they do not make a purchase. Most people know a store's policy and proactively follow it. Most people, black or white or Asian, would either leave or else buy an inexpensive item to make them qualify as a customer. These men did neither, almost agitating for a confrontation.
Having said that, the men should have been allowed to use the facilities and wait for their friend, even without a purchase, but they were arrested because they did not cooperate with the police. They wanted their 15 minutes of fame and boy did they get it - and most probably a huge settlement from the PC department at Starbuck's.
7
And there will probably be millions more Trump voters, thanks to the overkill and biased "reporting" on this story.
3
Nothing sais be anyone here will change anyone’s mind about anything. Period. That’s because this is the 30th version of the same story, leading to the same virtue signalling and retreat to the same defensive ramparts. Hearing the same over and again does not change anyone’s mind; people just dig deeper trenches.
Race relations in America are stuck in this rut until someone comes up with a new approach.
Listen up, we’re trying to do something at scale here that’s never been done before. It’s hard.
5
I think cops in general are the problem. Black people in this country definitely get stopped and treated as more threateningly than other people. At the same time, let's not forget the Australian woman (white) who was also shot to death in her own backyard when she called the cops.
There's something very wrong with how the cops in this country are trained and the powers they're given. The police department issued a statement saying that their police officers didn't do anything wrong when they arrested the two guys in Starbucks but then said they were released because there were no charges to hold them on. How do those two statements go together? Our police officers seem to lack common sense when they approach situations.
Sadly, there will always be racists, from any race. I'm not sure how a company can guarantee that they don't hire someone who's a racist because I agree with the author, it's not something that a company can train away. I think when instances like these happen, the company should automatically fire those people, which is Starbucks did. You can't expect a company to turn racists into non-racists if that's how they grew up.
2
These days Starbucks is the “town commons” where people congregate to socialize, have meetings, watch people and generally hang out. Starbucks has subtly encouraged this behavior for years so it’s pretty disingenuous for staff in the Philadelphia store to call the police on two men who were waiting to meet someone. It they did the same on everyone who didn’t buy anything but used a restroom (me, many times) or that nursed a tall coffee for two hours while working in a computer (any Starbucks near a college campus), they would probably have about 50% of their current number of customers.
We have a race problem in America and have had one since the end of the Civil War. When will we grow up?
8
Exactly. And if their policies are different than that, where are they posted? We’ve all been in establishments with big signs that say, “Restrooms are for customer use only.” I challenge everyone to find and take a picture of such a sign found in a Starbucks location. I’ve never seen one. Without explicitly informing customers, and perhaps even the employees, what the policies are, you end up with disparate treatment which quite clearly violates people’s civil rights. And Starbucks needs to reflect on who they consider to be a “guest,” since that’s the term everyone now uses instead of “customer,” as being the person in your establishment right now, or the person who has purchased many expensive cups of coffee over many years’ time. If you’re trying to cultivate lifelong customer loyalty, you welcome people into your establishment and you don’t call the police on guests who are not disturbing the peace. I worked in retail sales for many years so I know what great service and what cultivating customer loyalty is supposed to look like. Starbucks has lost my loyalty.
1
Not a complete solution by any means, but the number of police officers sent out in response to calls in non-violent situations should be reduced. If I recall correctly, five or six officers were sent out to deal with Eric Garner selling loosies, and the same number was involved in the Starbucks arrest. For the same reason that a racist mob is more dangerous than one racist individual, a group of officers is an inherent danger in situations like these.
6
You would figure what type of business would be more welcoming of diversity than an urban coffee establishment? You would figure what environment would be more welcoming to diversity than a college campus? Well a Starbucks in Philly didn't appear to welcome diversity. And a professional engineering fraternity (Theta Tau) on the Syracuse University campus seemed to be a vile antithesis to diversity.
Now, these two events didn't happen in the Deep South, where many who read this publication feel is the center of this way of thinking and acting out. This was in the Northeast, that section of the country where these types of events just don't occur, or at least occur much less often. I was born and raised in New Jersey. I attended Syracuse University. Unfortunately, this type of thinking can't be trained away. It will slowly die off with each passing generation until Martin Luther King's dream of content of character versus color of skin becomes the absolute norm. It won't happen in our lifetimes, but it needs to be vigorously pursued.
2
It is not only black people who suffer from a dearth of public restrooms in many urban areas, who are treated rudely in restaurants and shops, and who suffer from poorly trained or abusive police officers. Black people are not the only victims of school shootings aided and abetted by the NRA and its lackeys in the US Congress.
Racism against blacks is a longstanding American problem. It has become less bad in a number ways over recent decades. In other ways, it has gotten worse. All of which calls for continued careful scrutiny and vigorous enforcement of clear anti-discrimination rules and regulations. To insinuate, however, that such racism suffices as an explanation for mistreatment and mishaps afflicted upon a non-white underclass is misleading if not racist itself.
2
I was once an upscale liberal. Then, I became disabled and core middle class. Upscale liberals talk the talk when it comes to equality among the races, but they don't walk the walk. Whatever contact they have with blacks is with subordinates. And they otherwise live in segregated worlds.
Encanto Park is a working class park in Phoenix. Check out the paddle boats and you'll see more mixed couples than you'd expect. And the park as a whole, is a pleasant amalgam of Hispanics, blacks and whites. Barbecues, birthday parties and neighborhood get togethers are often mixed. Sometimes a large area of the park is reserved by companies. That's when the whites flood in.
On the whole, this is a crowd that probably includes a good number of law enforcement families. In my opinion, it's a darn good thing that police officers aren't upscale whites. They'd have a lot of admirable ideas and no idea how to implement them.
4
When will Starbucks be conducting awareness sessions on ageism? Or classism? Or looks-ism?
3
The scariest is what the author and his family have experienced. The most shameful is what the Harvard professor experienced in 2009 on the front porch of the house in Wellesley where he had lived for some time.
1
Equal rights and equal treatment levels all boats.
3
The legalistic focus as to whether Starbucks has the right to ask patrons to leave, even those that violated their policy, is not helpful, and this reasoning itself reflects racial bias. It assumes the manager would (or even be able to) take the same action in any similar situation. It should come as no surprise the rules, policies, and laws are applied unevenly.
What if instead of two black men, it had been a white thirtysomething mom with her 8-year old blonde-haired daughter? Can you imagine any scenario, any scenario at all, which ends with mom being led out in handcuffs and Social Services taking custody of the child? Asking for the restroom? No. Sitting at a table too long? No. Not immediately cooperating with the (as we now know utterly incompetent) manager? I don't think so. Dancing wildly to the music? Nope. If mom pulled out a firearm AND fired it. Maybe.
There is no way for Starbucks or any busy retail outlet to apply such a policy in a uniform manner, even if it is within the law. Why? The stores are operated by fallible, and yes, biased humans.
6
Eight year old throwing a tantrum, maybe.
2
This country was build on the backs of settler colonialism, and Euro-white supremacy. I think white supremacy is a genetic trait, which is why it is so difficult to change. Change can evolve over time, but only if we want it to. So an one-time class on intrinsic racial bias may be a beginning but will NOT be definitive.
I am a 60 yr old black female, mother of 3 black sons. I was riding home with my middle son having just cone from the hospital for outpatient surgery when he was stopped by the police. He was doing the speed limit, wearing his seat belt but he was stopped. The police officer came to the window and asked for his license and registration. At that moment, I sit up in my seat. The police officer wanted to know who I was. I asked why did it matter but told him I was his mother. He asked for my ID, told both of us to get out of the car. After it was over, no ticket, no explanation for the stop and the officer left, I asked my son how could he be so calm..he said it happens the time and I learned to stay calm..
28
You should have asked for his card and filed a complaint. The police must have probable cause to stop you and they must articulate it if asked. When I was younger, I was repeatedly stopped and always asked the reason . Generally, it was for minor things like a tail light being out, but once, the officer said it was a "routine stop"' i.e. an illegal one. I filed a complaint that became part of his record. Almost all police departments evaluate officers on the number of arrests they make which invents them to stop as many people as possible in hopes of finding something. That's why so many cops target and harass black people. They're just fishing for blacks hoping to make their numbers. That's why the problem of biased policing isn't just about bad apples. It's the system departments put in place that virtually require pretextual stops and almost assure continuous racial harassment.
4
You raised one smart son!
1
My mother always taught me that when you enter into an establishment to use their facilities you should always buy something for no other reason than someone will need to clean after you.
The two gentlemen didn't. They were then loitering. Is Starbucks expected to have people just loiter without consuming?
As for the police, they were called by a private business to remove two loiterers. They showed up. They asked them to leave 4 times - 4 times! How is it that it has become acceptable behavior to simply ignore requests from the police?
This is no discrimination. It's loitering and failure to follow simple instructions from the police.
Had they left on their own volition, or purchased a $2 coffee, nothing would have happened.
8
As a white American, I am amazed that there is not a much greater degree of militant, confrontational actions taken by black Americans in the face of unending, imbedded racial discrimination, animus, and physical assault. What if these situations were reversed in this country and Caucasians were the racial group facing constant victimization?
Black restraint, temperance, and self-control when confronted by a hostile society of endemic white privilege is truly remarkable, even extraordinary. When will this corrosive, destructive racial dynamic end? Will it? Bondage by physical chains has been replaced by an evolving control of a more indirect and passive, but still insidious nature.
5
When a NYT editorial mentions the fact that African-Americans commit a vastly disproportionately high percentage of crimes from trespassing to robbery to murder, I'll die of shock. This fact--yes, fact--is clearly why African-Americans tend to be viewed with greater suspicion than members of other groups. And this, of course, is horribly unfair to law-abiding African-Americans. But this is the actual situation. Time to get honest about it.
9
Thank you. This should be a NYT pick, but obviously won't be. I'm surprised they even published it, actually.
1
This is not just a problem with Starbucks. It is reflection of the wider society. Trump has told white people to be fearful of Black, Muslim, Latino and any other person that looks at all unlike his white base.
They dislike immigrants, they dislike change and they dislike the idea that they are not right.
Trump offered up an opportunity to turn the hands of time back 70 years in America by electing him; problem was it didn't work. Time marches on and the white, uneducated, poor folks that thought Trump was going to solve their problems are now wondering what is going on as Trump struggle to dodge the Russia investigation, Stormy Daniels and a plethora of other embarrassing problems that will not go away no matter how much he tweets.
Starbucks makes a great cup of coffee. Too bad the folks serving it up are not always as liberal as the corporate ethos wants them to be. Management will close the stores for a day or so and read people the riot act and remind them that it isn't nice to call the cops on folks unless there is an actual problem, not just the perception of one in someone's mind.
4
This article is a melange of several issues -- institutional racism; profiling by law enforcement;the assumption among the ignorant that danger varies linearly with level of skin darkness. The first and last will take generations to solve, although my observation in Princeton is that with diversity comes tolerance. We ought, however, to be able to do something about the abuse of power by police officers. Heads of departments need to make it clear to every new recruit that profiling and the mistreatment of minorities is absolutely taboo and will result in serious consequences. This will be a small but significant step in the right direction
Individuals who are not customers are subject to being asked to leave by the management.If they refuse, the police will be called to intervene.
If tose indiduals disobey the police, they violate the law and are subject to arrest.
This scenario occurs regardless of race, ethnicity, or religion in every nation in the world.
8
I guess you have never been inside a Starbucks.
What struck home for me from the Starbucks incident is the disconnect in what calling the cops means for different races. For white people, it might just be getting their “suspicion” (often unconscious bias- “that person just walking on the sidewalk looks like they don’t belong in this fancy neighborhood”) investigated, while for people for color, an interaction with a cop can signify humiliation and embarrassment at best, injury or death at worst. I remember the news story a few years ago when an old gentleman from India visiting his son in a a Southern US state was was strolling in the gated community where his well employed son owned a home. The white cop who responded to a neighbor’s call then proceeded to body slam and break this frail old unarmed man’s back landing him in the hospital as the Indian man did not know how enough English (or more likely did not understand the cop’s accent) to understand or respond to what the cop was saying. As an Indian American, many people from my community look just “black” or “Hispanic” enough to be considered “those people.” I can’t even imagine what it just feel like to be an actual parent of “those people”. Heartbreaking!
5
The majority of comments on this piece alone demonstrate that we have a very long way to go on the issues of race.
42
@Hugh Jones
You do realize that they were customers, don't you?
What happened is that the police correctly followed the law which the two men refused to comply with.
From https://www.cbsnews.com/news/starbucks-arrest-philadelphia-police-hold-p...
" (Police Commissioner Richard) Ross had initially said the officers had done nothing wrong, but said Thursday that wasn't the best language to use. He said he should have said that the officers followed the law."
Sorry guys, just do whatever you want and when you run afoul of the law and rules get righteous on the world. There will be a lot of white folks cheering you on but guess what? Those same white folks, who can afford to, won't live in neighborhoods that have an appreciable number of Black residents. The same applies to public schools, especially in NY City.
6
As a former Starbucks employee, I can attest that most people don't realize how much pressure the employees are under.
You have lines out the door, and it's anybody's guess what mood or what sensitivities will bedevil the next person in line. There are exacting standards for everything you do, everything is made to order, and people are paying through the nose - so, if you mess something up, there's a good chance that the customer gets righteously indignant.
The baristas aren't well-paid, and neither are the managers. Everybody's under stress, and their work isn't valued: "How hard is it to make a cup of coffee?!?" snips the caffiene addict, with a condescending sneer. And then you've got customers openly stealing; swiping mints, bags of coffee, tumblers, tip jars (!) because they feel aggrieved and entitled - the whole situation is dehumanizing for all involved.
I'm sure I called the police multiple times on people of different ages, races, genders - it's the one thing I could do to assert some control, when customers were openly defiant, and it was my responsibility.
So, I don't see anything alarming about what happened. It could have been exactly the way it's represented in the media, but based on my experience, an equally plausible explanation is that a couple of customers decided to exercise some civil disobedience, at the expense of the already overburdened employees, with predictable results. In that case, I can't fault the employees or the company at all.
23
Thank you for the valuable insight.
There is another side to this episode that remains silent - the perspective of the former manager. I imagine that the manager felt intimidated at the scene and later was again most probably intimidated by Starbucks' PC dept to remain silent on this issue.
Also, the Phila police made the arrest, not the Starbucks manager! But the manager is being thrown under the bus, both by PC Starbucks and the MSM.
Starbucks is afraid of bad press even if their employee was supposedly following company policy.
Starbucks will conduct the race training, all well and good, but they never said if their 'bathroom for customers only' policy will remain or not. That is the underlining problem, which is still unresolved. The episode was much more about the bathroom than racism!
4
This post illustrates the problem clearly. There are many underpaid professions in which quick action and decision is necessary. Think doctors and nurses where the outcomes are much more fraught (yes, given the pressures of the job and rate of burnout, there are many specialties in which doctors are relatively underpaid for the burden they sustain). But just as medical professionals seem to often assume patients of color need less pain medication than white patients, there is the assumption that people with certain appearances “must have done something” to deserve their punitive treatment. Even with a corroborating video showing no such evidence, the conviction that black people deserve the dehumanizing treatment persists. White people are granted the benefit of a doubt that goes with recognized individuality while minority races assume the shared mantle of automatic guilt.
3
Your last sentence states the core of the problem eloquently. I have made a note of it.
Starbucks is not attempting to solve our deeply rooted problem with racism. The fact that they are taking an extreme measure to educate their employees is good. Closing 8,000 stores even for a few hours is going to cost them. The more important message is the training itself. They are making a strong statement in support of diversity. I am impressed with the show of support by many companies for more diversity in our country. Trump's business advisory council was disbanded after some company leaders resigned in protest over his cowardly comments following the Charlotteville attack. I see progress being made in our country toward a more inclusive nation. There is much more to be done, but let's not give in to cynicism and claim even little gestures will have no effect.
7
Until the views of society change, this will be the norm played out daily. What the article fails to acknowledge is that racial profiling is based on current crime statistics of race and gender. As Inner city crime still plagues us, it drives stereotypical views and fears which fuel the problem. Resolve the bleak outlook of theses mired in poverty and the problem will resolve itself. Entitlement programs and quotas have not been the answer.
6
The mere fact that ANYONE is stopped or worse, without probable cause, represents a dangerous march towards a police state. This is the greatest danger of all.
14
The militarization of police is a further step in that direction. We have met the enemy and it is us.
2
How do you know whether there was probable cause or not?
3
America IS a police state and always has been. For african Americans.
The statement that "over 80 percent of people stopped by the police are black or Latino, while members of these groups make up less than 60 percent of the city’s population" does not give a full picture of exactly who it is that are being stopped by the police. And this is because those blacks and Latinos who are stopped by the police are overwhelmingly both young and male. And young black and Latino males make up no more than the low teens in percentage of total population.
On the other hand it does no good to deliberately ignore the actual facts. And that is that the population that makes up those who are locked up in central booking, those who have just been arrested and are waiting to see a judge, not to mention those whose crimes are deemed serious enough that in the eyes of the judge they warrant remand to Rikers instead of receiving a conditional discharge in return for staying out of trouble for 6 months, are also overwhelmingly young black and Latino men.
This clearly shows that young black and Latino men are not just simply more likely to be searched by the police. It shows that those men are allot more likely to be charged with serious crimes, that are not necessarily the result of searches.
As such it is only fair to ask whether the police tend to search those groups simply out of bias, or because the fact is that they are arrested, charged and convicted for committing crimes at rates that are much higher than those of the population at large.
23
I do not understand why as a law abiding citizen minding my own business should be subjected to a stop and a search by police simply because people that are in my demographics are in jail at a higher percentage. It still does not change the fact that I have not done anything illegal and I’m walking and minding my own business. If this is really a free country I shouldn’t be judged because of what someone that looks like me might have done but what I have done.
19
There is some truth in what you write, Mr. Stavson, but the situation is more complex than you imply. The statistics presented in the case that led to a ruling against the New York police showed that only a tiny percentage of the young men stopped carried any weapons or exhibited conduct that merited police attention.
With respect to certain crimes, moreover, the police across the country clearly target black and latino Americans. Drug use and sales are uniform across all population groups, yet the criminal justice system disproportionately punishes young men from minority groups.
About 60% of the prison population in this country consists of black and latino young men, whose population groups make up about 30% of all Americans. Unless one is going to argue for the inherent criminality of these minorities, this statistic underscores a level of inequality in this country that mocks our democratic pretensions.
1
What about thee minor infractions that mostly result from stop and frisk. If you stopped 100 white male teens, you would find marijuana at the same or higher rate than 100 black teens, but you don't stop them, leading to a VERY false and misleading conclusion.
I‘m curious to see how this educational event they are planning plays out.
While the immediate response of STARBUCKS is well intended, it does come across as somewhat of a kneejerk reaction. The logistics and possibilities of communicating something lasting and meaningful, to 8000 or so stores in the time allotted are questionable. Will they only speak to white staff members, or people of color as well? In particular for the latter, many will find the exercise at best patronizing, at worst, insulting. After all you are indirectly belittling their experiences, and those of their families, claiming to resolve a problem which has plagued America for centuries, in mere hours. This brings me to the heart of the matter, the fact that it is not per se a STARBUCKS issue, but an American one, and resolving it will require involvement of the nation as a whole, not just one company.
14
I agree with all the major parts of this essay but would prefer to say something about the specifics of the Starbucks case. I am going to first make an assumption. Management doesn't want people occupying the coffee lounge area without buying stuff and while anyone might be suspect they most likely profile people and act on it. To eliminate this and basically insist on a level playing field Starbucks just needs to have a cover charge payeable up front that is later used towards the cost of the first item. Example $4 to sit but fully refundable on the first order at that table. So we all agree when we sit down at the least the table cost $4. If u don't like that go elsewhere.
8
That may be a good idea BUT no one else at that store (or many others) could remember ever having had that happen to them. "They most likely profile people" is not acceptable --
were they keeping other people from sitting down? Haven't heard the place was crowded.
4
Most retail stores welcome anybody who might buy something. I've never heard of a coffee shop with a cover charge; that would certainly discourage a lot of potential customers!
Every time I've passed by my local Starbucks I see through the window people just sitting there with their computers. Maybe they finished their coffee, maybe they never ordered any. I don't know. If they finished their coffee an hour ago, why haven't the police been called to stop them from "occupying the area?"
The issue here is that these men were somehow scary to the Starbucks manager, scarier than most customers. So scary that their simply being in the store for a few minutes waiting constituted a crime that needed police intervention. This is obviously a pretty common experience for black Americans. Just because it never happened to you or your friends doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It seems to happen--a lot. Sometimes with deadly consequences.
14
Sorry, but not this time. Why? Because it IS Starbucks, not any generic coffee house.
Starbucks has directly and openly courted the use of their store locations for meetups of all kinds, including what the two Black Men were doing that day. It happens countless of times in Starbucks across the country, everyday. Some take loitering in Starbucks to an extreme, to the point where the freeloading consultant that uses Starbucks as their virtual office for hours per day, has become a constant of modern times. In short: Starbucks has encouraged loitering - while also taking the word out of their vocabulary as a negative, for all except the most extreme cases.
Except for two or more Black Men... The two men were apparently only in the store for a couple of minutes before they were tagged as Undesirables, and asked to leave.
This double standard, this discomfort, this removing of Dark Skin just to make the manger more comfortable, or to reach some ideal ambiance, is Racism in one of its most simple and basic forms. When White People stay for hours, while Blacks are shown the door, there’s a Big Problem.
1
I only hope that Trump supporters would read this eloquent article and think hard about their own experiences.
9
I’m so sorry you went through this. I got a lecture once from police for jaywalking, but I wasn’t afraid of even getting a ticket, much less in fear of my life.
It’s also a quandary to know what to do if one sees suspicious activity or behavior. Does one call 911 if one thinks a person of color is ill or threatening? Or does one not do so for fear of police overreaction? Some years ago I saw a man knock a woman down and called police, it turned out to be a domestic violence incident and the victim was glad to have it on record. But today, I would think very hard before I made that call.
5
Steven, Thanks for writing this. I have much to learn. Best wishes with your work and your career. Your contribution to our society is desperately needed.
25
Starbucks is routinely reactionary instead of proactive. The company has been sued multiple times by people who are deaf, and then they make a grand gesture like a video.
The stores fail to provide induction loops for people who are hard of hearing despite the company's "commitment to hearing loss." Costa Coffee in London, England offers then so why can't Starbucks? Starbucks claimed the baristas didn't need to converse with clients who could tick a box on an order form. Shortly after that, the store wanted their clerks to discuss race relations. So again, the company was again insincere.
Starbucks refused to discuss the lack of hearing access without my signing an NDA. Trying to silence a person advocating for access under the ADA is inappropriate.
Leadership needs to make a sincere commitment to diversity, and it starts with the top.
24
This is powerful story. I wish I had the solution to these problems. I don't, but I offer the following.
In the interest of public relations and repeat business, it seems to be in Starbucks' interest to allow people some leeway in such situations. This is especially if, e.g., there are few customers in the store at the time.
On the other hand, as some have noted, this was trespassing. Starbucks is open to the public, yet there is no legal right to go in, sit down, order nothing, tell the manager you're waiting for someone, and be entitled to remain indefinitely. If there were, firms like Starbucks could be put out of business.
The key question thus seems to be one of equal treatment - whether as a matter of fact Starbucks routinely allows white customers to linger without buying anything but tends to react as it did in this case when black customers do the same thing. If so, that seems to be the problem to be addressed.
Starbucks is not responsible for the fact that racism in our society has not vanished. I applaud Starbucks for at least trying to move in the right direction.
I think we should all strive to treat others as we would be treated.
36
You prove the point the author was trying to make when you use the word “trespassing “ to describe the actions of the the 2 black men. If two white women or white men walked in and sat down and began to chat, you would not think for a moment to apply that word to them.
1
This was trespassing??? The manager called the police within FOUR minutes of the men entering Starbucks! The men had already told her they were waiting for someone to arrive.
1
It seems the most appropriate antidote is to include more diversity in all places of work: Starbucks, the police department, etc. If white Starbucks staff were eager to call the police on the men, black colleagues may have provided a different point of view. And if that didn't work, black police officers might have approached the situation differently and chosen not to arrest.
12
Forced diversity isn’t the best answer. It lacks veracity in the equal treatment department.
3
I don't think the evidence supports that theory. After all one of the Sacramento police officers who recently shot to death an unarmed black man was black. A ProPublica study in 2014 calculated that, over 30 years I believe, 78% of the people killed by black officers were black. That compares with 46% of the people killed by white officers. https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white
2
The ProPublica study that you're citing has a major flaw: It does not distinguish between armed and unarmed victims. That's an essential distinction in determining whether the use of deadly force is justifiable.
On the contrary, studies have shown the positive, transformative effects of creating a diverse and inclusive workplace, that includes minority staff throughout an organization, including positions of authority. See https://blog.capterra.com/7-studies-that-prove-the-value-of-diversity-in...
As a psychologist, I can say with little fear of professional contradiction that a one-day workshop has scant hope of eliminating anything as deeply ingrained as racism.
What is feasible--if accompanied by ongoing management communication, training protocols and monitoring--
is to establish clearly defined and enforced operational procedures and processes for dealing with customers under a variety of circumstances. Situations and scenarios of the type that have led to this article obviously need to be given particular attention.
The goal of this effort would be not to eliminate racism among individuals or society at large, but to shape employee behavior toward customers.
30
Interesting. The author sees two police officers and immediately fears for his life based on generalizations and stereotypes derived from others' experiences with different officers. The officers, similarly, are assumed to see a black man and suspect him of crimes based on their experiences with other black men. Yet one is assumed to be acting rationally, while the others are not. Interesting.
71
Maybe it is because the assumptions of the author, if true, could result in assault, arrest, or death at the hands of the police officers, while the "presumed" assumptions of the police officers are harmless to them either way -- they carry the guns; they are the ones permitted, by law, to use them -- if they fear, or claim to have feared, for their lives -- with total impunity. Interesting indeed. Fears of the author under those circumstances were, regrettably, spot on.
34
Wrong, you're making an assumption of your own that doesn't hold water here. We don't know that the officers suspected him of any crimes. They could have reacted the way they did for many reasons, including simply not wanting to see any black men in the area due to racism.
1
I think you're missing his point.
Neither are acting rationally. He gets that. He gets that he's not being rational to assume he's in trouble - but that he still feels that way.
I was walking down the street in Baltimore with my black godson, chatting away, and a total stranger came up to us and asked if I was ok. We had been laughing and joking. We were BOTH shocked. I said "what are you talking about?!" and the man said "you have to admit, you don't look like the typical couple." I was so taken aback we said nothing and moved on. Today, after growing up a bit more, I'd give that guy a MUCH different reaction. He would definitely get a lecture on race relations in America from me, now.
Susan
Expat in Ireland
4
Every time I read an article in the Times which tries to explain the reality of being black in America, I'm amazed at the amount of racist comments about the article. The comments about the two black gentlemen "trespassing" are more of the same - attempts to justify the unjustifiable. The actions of the Starbucks staff and the police were both unjustifiable, and these ridiculous arguments that Starbucks was within its rights to ask these people to leave are nothing more than the normal attempts to justify racism. We would hope that when our police arrive at a situation they would be able to identify it for what it was and de-escalate it. However, that is not what usually happens, and the result was that two black men were unjustly arrested for doing nothing more than waiting for their friend. These men were not trespassing. They were doing what all of us have done countless times without incident - entering a business and not buying something because we were there to meet someone. Unlike so many interactions between African Americans and the police, we are lucky that no one was shot. Whether it is for public relations or not, I was both relieved and touched at the the exemplary way that the CEO of Starbucks handled this. It's too bad that not everyone is capable of the same level of humanity.
78
"Starbucks was within its rights to ask these people to leave are nothing more than the normal attempts to justify racism."
Except those that statement, asking people to leave, is accurate and true. But don't let that get in your way.
Have you really "countless times" been asked to leave establishments by employees (and later than the police) and refused to leave?
2
Most comment sections skew negative. The internet makes it too easy to vent one's spleen.
I'm white, and I find the way black people are treated here in the States very depressing. I try to counter racism when I see it, but it feels like an intractable problem.
Best wishes to you.
3
Exposing people to new experiences develops new neurologic connections that alter thinking and behavior. People literally have genes waiting to be turned on by new experiences. Empirical, peer reviewed research has demonstrated this. Heck, the military is based on this model.
That's why diversity policy (training to a lessor degree) is so important because bias - gaps in perception - is mitigated when people with differenences crash - for lack of a better term - into each other.
So it's a small step for Starbucks. But it's something.
9
Mr. Thrasher, I fail to see why what happens in your imagination when you fear for your life because some cops were walking behind you has any more validity, or any more role to play in the argument of an op-ed piece, than what goes on in the imagination of somebody who is walking in a bad neighborhood and crosses the street when they see somebody who scares them.
You say, "My fear was not irrational." So what? Arguably, it is also rational to be wary of people you see in a bad neighborhood who scare you.
34
No, horror at the sight of a black person is not rational.
A neighbor who is black walked every night. Every night someone would call the police. Every night the police stopped him to check out why he was walking in this neighborhood. “I live in this neighborhood. Walking is my exercise.”
So the police force wasted tax payer money to harass the same man in the same neighborhood in a small town every night, probably by the same cops, possibly called in by the same terrified person.
I sent a letter to the village manager. The harassment finally stopped. Why should it take a white person asking higher authorities to stop the insanity?
31
Are you afraid for your life when you see the police?
1
If racism against black people amounted to nothing more than crossing the street from time to time we wouldn't be having this conversation. Anyway, it's not imaginary that 100% of cops carry guns and are authorized to use deadly force. People being cautious around them isn't paranoia, it's the desired outcome.
1
Let's be real. What all of these instances speak to is that a large percentage of white Americans are only comfortable with black Americans when we are performing subservient or entertainment roles. Beyond those criteria, we are viewed as suspicious at the least and menacing and lethal at the worst. People can use all kinds of verbal gymnastics to try to explain why black and brown are treated differently, but it really comes down to that. Period.
Here's a test we can all take. If you are inclined to call the police because you see some brown or black folk JUST BEING, ask yourself, "Would I have the urge to call the police if they were white?" And if the answer is no, DON'T CALL. Just let people BE.
60
"...a large percentage of white Americans are only comfortable with black Americans when we are performing subservient or entertainment roles."
Talk about stereotypes! Your statement is a perfect example of racial bias - against whites.
4
Unfortunately the crime statistics support the police actions. Would be a good place to start to help resolve the matter.
26
The crime statistics of course say no such thing, which is why you haven’t cited any. Extraordinary claims can be dismissed without extraordinary evidence.
2
"Unfortunately the crime statistics support the police actions. Would be a good place to start to help resolve the matter."
Yeah, take that approach and you'll start to see some math gymnastics regarding the removal of biases.
Ok, Rich, and those crime statistics are (with yr sources cited)?
Why didn't two men just order coffee or bottled water?
Limiting access to restrooms to customers is a common policy.
If they were meeting a colleague at Starbucks for a business meetings, wouldn't they have been ordering something anyway? Or else why not use a library or other public space?
Seems there might be more to this story that hasn't been told.
37
I wasn't there, just as all the commenters here were not. But if they were meeting someone (and that person in fact showed up), aren't they likely to wait to order until he shows, out of ordinary politeness?
93
I was raised that it is impolite to order until everyone was present, unless it was a very large group and some were running late. You dont start eating until everyone is served. Why would you want to order early and have your food get cold (or cold food warm)?
Not to mention, if you had seen the interview, it was TWO MINUTES between when the manager spoke to them shortly after they arrived and when she called police. It can take longer than two minutes to decide what you want to order if you have never been in that restaurant before.
27
Yes, what's not being told is that the manager called the cops within two minutes of the gentlemen's arrival. In what store or restaurant anywhere does "two minutes without a purchase" constitute loitering? It can take longer than that just to go through the nigh infinitude of latte permutations in one's mind.
35
A corporation can have all the core values in the world that require an employee treat all people with equally and with dignity. I can't condemn Starbucks, the corporation, for the actions of one employee. But I can advise the former employee to look at their core values. I have been in establishments where I am in the minority. Recently I was in a restaurant and I was the only customer and the staff just looked at me and proceeded to ignore me. Needless to say, I won't be headed back there. If I don't receive the service that I deserve, I vote with my wallet and walk out.
17
And Chuckw, we don’t even know that the employee was fired. Starbucks has always carefully stated that the person “is no longer at this store.”
I think that Starbucks is actually doing a little better than many U.S. corporations in this area - which only shows how far we have to go in this country. A point brought home by several of the reader response to this Op Ed. If you didn’t know otherwise you’d think you were reading The Washington Times.
1
It would solve many issues if people talked to each other about their concerns. There's no valid reason this incident escalated as it did. I'm certain the Starbucks manager would have rescinded her request if the police officers questioned her rationale and equanimity.
25
Why are you so certain the police would have de-escalted if they questioned the Starbucks manager, and because of that, she would have rescinded her request? Because you would have done so?
Why do white people get listened to without questioning? I'm white.The implicit and explicit racism in this situation is clear.
Yes, the police should have questioned the manager well before sending a crew of cops to escalate and arrest.
And yes, the police should have asked those they arrested what was going on before they immediately escalated with such a drastic action.
And yes, people should talk with each other about their concerns. But way too often, for people of color, it's escalate, arrest, damage in situations without any immediate danger.
The common thread in all these instances of escalating response to a perceived threat, is an organic fear in the US of black males -- and it seems to be getting worse over time. Not good.
"I'm certain the Starbucks manager would have rescinded her request if the police officers questioned her rationale and equanimity."
Turn it back around on the caller. That'll surely be the indicator of a well run police department. Yep.
1
I've faced the business end of a riot gun in the hands of law enforcement, been stopped and questioned without cause, been followed for driving the wrong sort of car, been threatened with arrest for no cause and told that "my kind" caused trouble in a particular neighborhood. Unlike for Mr. Thrasher not one of those experiences was the cause of any great distress.
It's not that I'm better or braver than he, but rather that as a white male those events were all exceptions to the reasonable expectations of everyday life, not the rule. We've made progress, I think, but we still have many miles and years to go. Bravo Starbucks. And bravo to all of us who act and vote for continued change.
16
I'm sorry. The stories are outrageous. Such things should not be. Thank you for helping to open my eyes a bit more.
39
I was required by my employer to attend an all-day workshop about sexual harassment. Although of course I was happy to have it made clear that harassment would not be tolerated, it felt like a deeply intrusive effort to mold the beliefs and attitudes of the attendees.
The company had every right to make explicit its policies and its expectations about workplace behavior, but this crossed the line into trying to make me into its idea of a better person. My employer is not my parent, my therapist, my spiritual advisor or my kindergarten teacher.
Not the first or last time the line was overstepped, but the most rankling.
40
I recall the great angst in the U.S. prior to requiring people to wear seatbelts. "They're taking away our freedom." Also, "If I want to get injured in a car accident, that's my choice."
These people were no doubt influenced by the auto industry advertisement. Automobile manufacturers also warned that the price of cars would skyrocket.
But you're right.
Civility and respect are both best taught at home.
By the time you're an adult treating others with respect should be second nature and not something that your employer should have to teach you.
25
Being required to wear a seatbelt is not the same as being told by someone else that you MUST think or feel a certain way, the way THEY want you to think or feel.
3
Being required to wear a seat belt is not the same as being told what to feel.
3
EVERYONE should be outraged by this account of Thrasher's fear. His hands were cold! And the horrendous decision of the Starbuck employee.
And it doesn't help matters that a previous story in the NYT stated that police training includes the unspoken code of 'its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6', when it comes to using firearms. What kind of constructive training is that? Policeman are supposed to be officers of the peace. Thank you for sharing your experience Steven. My heart is sick that there is so much fear among humans when its all just poor communication and no compassion. If parents aren't up to raising their kids to respect racial heritage, then they shouldn't have them. It's a beautiful world and we have so little time. Please let love win.
53
Sorry, but I know that the police are there to protect public safety, and I am part of the public, so they are there for my protection. Therefore, I also would rather than them "judged by 12 than carried by 6". I am in complete agreement with them about that. Didn't most of the well publicized incidents of police shooting AA men begin when someone called 911 reporting suspicious or frightening activity? There haven't been instances of police shooting people for no reason, propaganda to the contrary. And police have good reason to be afraid for their own lives, as we in FL saw yet again, tragically two days ago. I agree that we should respect African Americans and their racial heritage. I assume you agree I have a right to respect my own heritage, too? And others can at least be polite about it?
8
The police are there to protect law abiding citizens, therefore I completely agree with their desire to live. I want them alive, because I know they are a large part of my own safety. I have no problem respecting African American's heritage, but I hope you agree other ethnicities have a right to enjoy their heritage and culture as well.
6
Good manners go a long way in eliminating these kinds of problems. My friends and I often meet at SB and other similar places. The first thing all of us always do is “pay our rent” by buying something. I thought everybody knew that was what you do when you’re using SB as a meeting place. I guess I’m mistaken about that!
Back in the 1980's and 1990's here in NYC I was mugged I would say around five times, 2x at gunpoint, the other times by "gangs" (3-4) of young men acting in concert and physically assaulting me. One time, not even a mugging, I was randomly attacked by a "gang" of young men riding my bike in the northern part of Central Park at night. In those instance where I went to the police, they were unable to do anything, except in one where it was a string of mugging and the perps were caught. I believe I was the only victim to show up and testify at the grand jury.
All of these crimes of robbery and assault committed against me here in NYC were by ...
Just as Mr. Thrasher relays his anecdotal encounter and family lore, so too am I relaying my anecdotal encounters on the other end of the spectrum.
For both of us, these are real, hurtful and galling events. Such incidents can be cathartic or crippling. Or both. Or neither. For me, they were nasty encounters that were just part of living here in NYC during a certain era and from which I've moved on.
I will state that encounters like Mr. Thrasher's and mine should not be the basis to cast a wide net that pulls all of one segment of humanity down in to the depths of hate, recrimination and despair.
We all need to recognize there are any number of not so good people out there, work to help them get over their biases and, barring that, contain them so their poison does not sicken the whole of society.
124
I think that one difference between the author's experience and yours is that you were mugged by citizens.
The author is pointing out that he fears the very people who are sworn to offer protection to citizens.
47
These aren't just "anecdotal" and "family lore." Discrimination was written into the US Constitution. Bigotry and the policing of black and brown bodies isn't just some "story" or "bad experiences." It was something that a vast majority of people supported and thought nothing of. These were people whom were referred to as "law abiding" and "good citizens."
I know that your experiences involved CRIMINALS. But we don't call white people who use the authority of law to harm black and brown people "criminals."
So there is a VAST difference between the two narratives.
30
I do grow tired of whites pointing to their racial fears as a justification for racial discrimination or the common insistence that racial discrimination motivated by racial fear is so much more morally justifiable and understandable than racial discrimination motivated by hatred. The end result is the same. The main reason that police in this country continue to act like overseers is because so many whites insist that they do and it isn't primarily about fear. It's about power.
30
America is still amazing place to me. One that allows you to walk into a shop and make you feel you own it.
29
America make you feel you own it to get your money. It is an illusion. America makes me know that I should never even think about owning it. That is the reality and the problem that you cannot or will not perceive.
5
Except not everyone gets that treatment, which is the whole point of this piece.
1
Excellent essay, but unfortunately, so many White Americans choose to be ignorant, choose to represss their own imaginations that might encourage empathy in them, and continually, inhumanely dismiss the reality expressed by any African American man as "identity politics." They'll argue, "I was once falsely arrested," or "I was treated unfairly," as if isolated incidents in their lives are parallel to an inarguable history of institutional and cultural racism and brutality.
105
" but unfortunately, so many White Americans choose to be ignorant, choose to represss their own imaginations that might encourage empathy in them,"
Unfortunately too many people would just choose to purchase something in a store whose reason for existing is to sell them something. But no more!
Rise up and refuse to purchase!
BTW, I'm sure the NYT will welcome all people to walk into their offices and just sit or stand there... and use the facilities.
I’d be happy to write a column about my experiences with the police, including one pulling a gun on me. Unfortunately, I’m white. And I work in a high crime neighborhood. Goes with the territory. He apologized, said I resembled a suspect. I told him never to apologize for doing his job. I could also relate what I consider to be boneheaded moves by cops, like pretty much everyone else of any color. As for one of 28,000 Starbucks managers making one questionable decision on one day, please. Try one of the other 27,999 Starbucks, Mr. Thrasher. You might be pleasantly surprised.
65
The problem is not one incident, it is that such incidents occur for black Americans multiple times every day. I recommend reading the horrifying article about black women's health (in relation to childbearing) from the Times Magazine: their health is severely harmed simply by living with daily racism. The same applies without childbearing and to black men, probably less so but still continually and inescapably.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/magazine/black-mothers-babies-death-m...
and the related editorial:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/opinion/childbirth-black-women-mortal...
44
I read comments like this and wonder if people who write them honestly believe that they are just so much more well adjusted than 30 million odd black people or if they know full well that racial bias is pervasive and want to telegraph their utter indifference in what they think is a socially acceptable way.
What's clear is that that cop did not pull a gun because of racial bias or power tripping and the knowledge that that is so makes a huge difference in how his behavior is perceived. Maybe if he had stopped and frisked you for the 15th time in a year, you might not have been so appreciative.
3
Actually John D, better make that 27,998. Or did you not see the video of the similar incident in the Torrence CA Starbucks?
At some point the response by white people to get over it you’re over-reacting begins to sound like an apology for racist behavior.
2
Speaking as a white person in my sixth decade of life, the first two responses to this personal essay, the ones from Neal and dejavu, don't give me a lot of hope that white Americans will ever really try to understand the widespread systemic racism in this country and what damage it does on a daily basis to their fellow citizens.
It's depressing and doesn't bode well for us as a nation.
158
In a few years, you will find out that "systemic" ageism is just as prevalent and just as damaging.
20
@me: Do you think the folks over 65 will commit over 50% of the murders in this country?
1
I am 73 and have already experienced it, at my local hospital no less.
I agree that training will not eliminate the problem but it will raise some consciousness on it. I say this as a white woman who grew up in the south during the 60's.
We only began having black students in school when I was in the 7th grade. The whole roll out was designed to make us suspicious of them, not welcoming. We had no interaction with them. Another form of segregation.
That was the way it was growing up. They had their own neighborhood and churches. What became ingrained in me was a 'code of conduct' that was expected of black men.
I remember the first time a black man sat next to me on a bus. It was NYC and they had no such 'restrictions'. It made me uncomfortable, I needed more space. This didn't seem right until it did but it took sharing a seat and sharing a lunch counter space later on.
Once I worked side by side black men and women I had a chance to get to know them. Later I worked in a minority owned company and they became good friends. What I finally realized was that they wanted the same things white people did: a good education, a safe neighborhood, a good job, a chance to do well. I loved their ethics, their humor and warmth.
It's not rocket science but it is about exposure. The less we interact, the easier the fear can grow. I'm happy I finally had friends from the rainbow of life. It added a lot to my own life.
91
Uh, 911, an emergency number, was called within 2 minutes of their arrival and sitting
They didn't have time to loiter. Something people do everyday at Starbucks and even encouraged.
148
I doubt the 2 minutes story, but in any case, they refused to leave a private premises when asked to do so, which is trespassing. I believe loitering applies to public areas, and trespassing to private property. Trespassing is against the law.
45
They were unlawfully asked to leave, therefore trespassing wasn't committed.
8
It's sad to see people like "me" still living in the 1950's, when black people could be told to leave a whites-only public accommodation, or even be arrested for walking into one. Starbucks, "me", is not a private home, it is a public business and it is nowadays illegal to kick people out because of their color; a better reason is required. I hope you will soon join the 21st century.
13
No good deed goes unpunished, it seems. Of course the problem is deeply rooted and deeply entrenched... but Starbucks is at least doing something. Credit where credit is due.
40
The more things go 'round the more they seem the same. Starbucks is a profit-centric corporation. All it cares about is money. Profit. The CEO's reaction to this distraction is a joke. And an insult to blacks and whites alike who know the difference.
Training versus education. When I read "A Problem Starbucks Can't Train Away". I wrongly presumed the opinion piece. was about the dynamics of changing human behavior. I was wrong nothing could have been further from the truth. My perception of this opinion piece is it highlights the continuing challenge the many people face regarding unconditional acceptance in the 21st century. Mr. Thrasher would have been correct had he pursued the theme Starbucks can't train away the treatment two visitors to their store received. We can train employees to follow policies and procedures or face the consequences. Changing how we interact with each other is in very large part about education and followed consequences. Somewhere many years ago I read or heard the following; we train animals and we educate people (employees). Memo to Starbucks ensure whatever adult learning model you use please education first, train (model) the appropriate behaviors you require of employees and then reinforce with audits and if necessary consequences. I'll take a dark roast venti.
6
Somehow, ignored in all of this, is something called "Trespassing". This is a law enforced by police, as it was at Starbucks, when a business wants a person off their property - and usually when they refuse to leave. Reports differ on whether Starbucks asked the gentleman to leave, but clearly the Police were asked to have these customers vacate the store, and they refused multiple time. Hence, they were arrested.
The fact that Starbucks later realized they had a PR fiasco, saw there might not have been a good justification for having them removed, and then told police to drop the charges does not negate the original situation. It does not mean the cops made a wrong decision. Somehow, this is being ignored and wrapped in the flag of identity politics.
I've been on the end of a unfair arrest, after being stopped for speeding and taken to jail because a court clerk did not update my case file correctly, making it appear as though I had an outstanding warrant. Did I like it? No, of course not. But the quickest way to fix it was to cooperate.
68
I frequent Starbucks often when I'm in New York, usually in Manhattan, mainly to do work on my computer. I've seen some pretty objectionable persons sitting at a table for as long as I was - probably homeless. I wonder if a Starbucks employee called the police. Was this also 'trespassing'?
29
Actually, it's not at all clear that the manager (who remains anonymous for some reason) even asked the men to leave before she called the police, but let's assume that she did. The men may well have been guilty of trespassing, but so was Rosa Parks. They refused to leave for the same reason she refused to move: they knew they were being treated differently than everyone else there because of racial bias.
Yes, people facing discriminatory treatment always have the choice of putting up with it and there are always people urging them to do so and not make a fuss, especially a fuss that annoys those not being discriminated against.
92
I wondered the same thing. I know plenty of people, myself included, who have gone to Starbucks just to work for a while, sometimes getting a drink, sometimes not. When a company's image encourages "trespassing," I don't think they should have the right to call the police for people trespassing. It'd be different if it was after hours and there were people trespassing but during regular hours, I don't think so.
6
Yes, yes, yes all true Mr. Thrasher. There is a deep cultural and societal racism against people of color, especially Africa-Americans. I would also add some neurobiological research that shows that all of us are biased against the other, the stranger. We have a strong positive bias towards our kin, what is familiar to us. Research shows that we have a stronger fear response towards the unfamiliar. When signals come in through the thalamus and normally would be distributed to the appropriate processing centers like the visual cortex, but their is heightened stress, there is direct shortcut to the amygdala and the signal is processed according to our biases. It is true for all races. To portray that only a certain race is capable of racism is a misconstruction that science does not support.
55
However true that may be, African-Americans experience the harsh manifestations of racism on a daily basis because it is rooted in negative beliefs, stereotypes and imagery. Although many of us simply leave situations and places where we experience racism’s painful effects and only report what happened to friends and families, others (out of courage or exhaustion) refuse to stand down. It’s not anecdotal or imagined. It’s very real, very taxing and very painful.
37
Two black guys sitting at a table. Yes, that is strange and unfamiliar. I wonder if any of the clients sitting at their tables - waiting or sipping their drinks - were uncomfortable about this unfamiliar situation. Probably not until the white friend showed up. My bad. I shouldn't see color. Just people. And yes, the police arrived first, to ask those people to politely leave.
dejavu, you missed a key artifact which the author mentions which many younger people cannot imagine: White men were allowed to police the behavior of blacks without legal repercussions. That fact has nothing to do with neuro-biology. If you want to see how this played out, see the 1992 movie "Love Field."
2