Haspel should be arrested and convicted.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/16/gina-haspel-cia-to...
1
I thought government agencies were not supposed to lobby Congress.
6
Ms Haspel is obviously a competent and loyal public servant.
Ms Haspel would be a welcome asset to the administration, bereft of morality indiscreet and devoid of effective management.
I am sure that Ms Haspel would be aware of the situation in Myanmar endured by Reuters journalists.
A blank page or column for these journalists would be of assistance.
I am a former revenue officer and there is no way that I would ever disclose matters I have seen. Equally the choices I have made in that capacity are retained and subject to subpoena.
Give her a break.
The business of the CIA like the FBI are not my business.
The IRS are equally engaged in treachery and should be abolished according to Ted Cruz.
Let's abolish government altogether??
Who wants to pay for a military, FBI and or CIA!
Is Ted a Communist who wants to end the prerogatives of an elected government?
The bacon grilling gunfighter invites comment, sadly implying that the IRS should abolish taxation and itself, and arm a militia, according to the second amendment, with pork chops and canned Spam.
A can of Spam can be lethal when used with a pork chop in a back alley at night.
Ted should legislate for open carry of Spam.
Equally concealed pork chops should be banned after sunset.
Ms Haspel has a great future.
Ms Haspel is a welcome adversary for the Senate and Mr Trump.
Trump may try to sack Mueller, sack Comey and Ms Haspel.
Three people of integrity I would not deal badly with.
. ta
1
A smiling countenance of a woman.Flagged by virtual American values.Experienced as a professional American spy. She has demonstrated her skills, abilities, will and desire, to do what ever is necessary to
protect America from targeted actual, or less than evidence-based, enemies. And the “whatever,” is unconstrained by ethics;being empowered by a timeless, measureless,“ticking bomb” metaphor, existing in a toxic, daily, WE-THEY culture. And a political system which nurtures not taking any personal responsibility.For harmful words and deeds.Even ones that maim and kill.That traumatize.From our very beginnings. Enabling, and fostering, violating of created-selected “the other!” Ms. Haspel’s zeal may break the CIA’s gendered infrastructure-glass ceiling.Is the notion that a “clean” person, evincing past, current, and hopefully future purity, is necessary to administer a “ dirty-deeds” agency oxymoronic?Semantic surrealism? How many average-American-home-grown threats to national security have been water -boarded at the behest of directors of any of America’s security agencies?Defusing ticking-bombs to necessary mutual trust? Protecting daily threats to mutual respect and civility?Minimizing planned as well as random, unpredictable maneuvers, to minimizing menschlichkeit?As a necessary norm and value for equitable well being in safe havens?At home?In our neighborhood? In urban and rural American communities?In schools transmuting misleading knowing into needed understanding?
1
Her nickname is "Bloody Gina"--not a great endorsement........
2
Haspel is a moderate. “One, Abu Zubaydah, was waterboarded 83 times before Ms. Haspel’s arrival. Under her leadership, the other, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, was waterboarded three times.
She is ok. Let her be. Pompeo is not a better choice. At least Haspel is not a political animal as is Pompeo. Haspel represents the purity of having a career CIA officer run the CIA.
4
Hapel oversaw torture in a permissive interrogation environment fostered by Dick 'Dark Side' Cheney & John Woo. This disqualifies her for such a promotion.
1
Well, yeah.
Sure, Haspel ran a secret prison in Thailand.
And sure, Haspel tortured prisoners.
And sure, Haspel destroyed evidence to cover up the crimes.
But hey, she was "just following orders".
(Gee, where have I heard that phrase before?)
4
If you've ever struggled with the concept of the banality of evil - I give to you, Gina Haspel.
One man's torture, is another man's common sense. Especially when you are dealing with Islamic extremists who who kill any non-Muslim at the drop of a hat. Level the playing field.
This woman is a war criminal. Her only hearing should be at the Hague.
2
We have a moron for President as we become irrelevant as a leader and we want to further it by making the Bush torture enabler the head of CIA? Am I living in a bad dystopian novel?
4
If the CIA is backing a torturer to be their leader, they're even worse than I thought.
2
The CIA is primarily involved in fomenting and controlling revolutions which inevitably result in the destruction of the given target countries and that portion of it's populace opposing fascism and dictatorial rule in homage to the outfit's vision of US interests.
We certainly don't need another crypto-sociopath in charge of the CIA. What we do need is to disband the organization and put its torturers and conspirators in prison.
1
Gina Haspel certainly looks less sinister than the torturer Colonel Rosa Klebb, played by Lotte Lenya in one of the James Bond films.
So she was just following orders. Waterboarding is contrary to the Geneva Conventions. So it wasn't lawful no matter what Dick Cheney and his henchmen would have us believe.
4
Isn't torture a too strong a term for the methods used? It's not like someone was electrocuted or fingernails pulled out
A torturer as leader.......that's us all over. The shame of torture combined with the Trump so-called leadership. I wonder whatever happened to "this government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the Earth"? Shame on us, America. Why not open more Guantanamos? Or have we already done so........
2
Is Ms. Haspel the better of two evils, being a "known" quantity? I can't condone torture. We are better than that. Saying that she was following lawful orders is not enough. The SS followed what were then lawful orders in Germany as they exterminated 6,000,000 Jews and another 6,000,000 people. It was morally right then and torture is not morally right now.
1
Torture violates the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, the UN Convention Against Torture (UNCAT) and 18 U.S. Code 2340(a).
Gina Haspel has violated every one of these sacred codes.
Then, to put the cherry on the ice cream sundae, she obstructed justice by destroying evidence of her crimes.
This frightening woman should not be running around loose, much less heading one of the most dangerous, powerful and unaccountable agencies in the U.S. government. Send her to the Hague and let her stand before the bar of justice.
1
No. Not Madame Torturer. No way.
1
Dissolve CIA, given the fact that 19 guys from Middle East taking flying lessons undetected for such a long period time leading to 9/11. That lapse, whose fault was that? George Tenet? CIA chief during that time?
1
Where's the person who was fired for disobeying orders to run a torture operation? Let that person run the CIA.
2
What do people think CIA's mission is? It ain't protecting human rights of world citizens. We have the state department to do exactly that. Gina appears to be very qualified to lead an agency which, for all intents and purposes, deals with non-citizens (and rarely renegade citizens) engaged in killing Americans - the only agency perhaps with presidential powers to carry out extrajudicial killings (Remember Anwar al-awlaki, ordered to be killed by President Obama?).
What bothers me though is CIA's propaganda, and apparently their incompetence at it. Aren't they supposed to be doing everything clandestinely? How does NYT get a whiff of that?
2
"she helped destroy videos despite an order by the White House and the agency’s top lawyer to preserve them." This fact alone should disqualify her from any leading position.
6
Is the misspelling of Gina Haspel's first name, as Gian in the first tweet, reported as is, or is it a typo by whomever typed the article?
1
It's like that in the original.
1
Haspel must have known senior officials in Assad's secret police. The CIA rendered people to be tortured there and Haspel had intimate knowledge of the rendition program. Brennan was another CIA person who got the CIA directorship who was intimately aware of the CIA torture program. The ironic thing is that al Qaeda is now holed up in Syria and using innocent people as human shields and are supported by the western news media to be the opposition to Assad.
There is nothing new about this. Our intelligence agencies have been engaged in propaganda campaigns directed at the American people for a long time. Everyone in Washington knows this and cuts their actions to accommodate that reality. When Trump publicly criticized the intelligence agencies, Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer questioned his wisdom in doing so saying "They have so many ways to get back at you."
1
Senators: Approving this nominee is the same as encouraging other countries to engage in torture of American citizens. We will have no "high ground" to stand on anymore.
9
If this is the best the Agency can do, it may be time for a serious housecleaning.
4
She should get what she deserves for her service--a trial at the Hague. And those who gave the orders that she "just followed" should be in the dock with her.
7
The CIA should not get to pick who runs them. This agency, of all agencies, needs strict, independent outside oversight by a director not promoted from within the CIA. I don't think people realize just how dangerous this organization is to our constitutional democracy. Of all groups, even the military, this is the one group that has the potential to be a very dangerous force against our constitutional laws if it wanted to.
3
But wait! CIA agents "put their lives on the line every day to defend our freedom." How can we possibly question their judgment? Truth be told the CIA, like all government agencies, wants maximum freedom and funding and no accountability, and Haspel is a prime example of this. Making an example of her would send the right message.
4
It's a problem when an Executive Branch agency hides information requested by a legislative body more directly representing the People that the Executive Branch agency is supposed to serve in its execution of the laws. Although I believe it is a more than worthy goal to avoid political pressures within certain agencies that led at least in part to fiascos like the false information used to justify an invasion of Iraq in 2003, agencies do exist only due to Congressional authorization and are subject to its review and oversight. All of this to say the C.I.A.'s self-serving actions here are indeed "spooky" and a bit unnerving.
3
This plays to tRumps base who delight in the idea of torturing the enemy. I'm not sure the fact that it doesn't really provide the best information even matters...
2
These CIA tweets are atrociously bad. Incredibly stilted and awkwardly formatted. Pretty sure my 92 year old grandma is more social media savvy than whatever goofball the CIA has working its Twitter account.
1
This recalls one of Philip Kerr's novels about 30's German cop Bernie Gunther, whose moral dilemmas are usually choices between the merely evil and outright horrific.
1
The Agency is probably looking at NASA and the EPA and scared witless about what random hack might be put in charge of them.
Even from the cheap seats, I'd tend to think they're best qualified to decide who'd be most effective leading the intelligence community.
1
Tough choice: known torturer, or possible partisan hack and Trump lackey? Devil we know, or devil we don't know?
We have the opportunity to at least reject one devil, and I say we take it.
2
Astonishing that an agency in which sociopathology is a job requirement should be led by someone accused of torture.
2
It may be true that Gina Haspel is the CIA's best bet to avoid being run by a Trump flunky. If so, I am deeply saddened.
As one of their core tasks, the Central Intelligence Agency is supposed to assemble the best information available, and it is duty-bound to pass along this information reliably and dispassionately, no matter how maddening, no matter how inconvenient to the shifting winds of politics.
To many of us, the CIA's use of torture - approved as it was by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales as based on Smiling John Yoo's bizarre, chilling and shameful legal opinion - is one of the worst chapters in US history, and has turbocharged anti-US terrorist recruitment.
It was of vital importance to study the implementation and fallout form this illegal program, so that we could both learn from it, and humbly and fully repent on the world's stage.
The CIA, however, in the persons of Jose Rodriguez, Gina Haspel and others, denied this country a huge and important opportunity, as they destroyed the evidence.
Call it a coverup; Call it cowardice; Or, call it political expediency if you are charitable, and an understandable attempt to protect the CIA and its employees from the aftermath of the real events that had horrific consequences including death: but don't call it leadership.
Gina Haspel should not lead the CIA if she continues to defend those actions, if for no other reason than she could repeat this kind of serious error in judgement, and imperil this country.
2
The eyes don’t match the smile, always something to pay attention to.
1
Roll back the clock to the year after the World Trade Center collapsed under attack and we thought other similar attacks were in the works. Those who are now so resolute regarding the wrongness of torture maybe were not so sure then. Suppose every person in authority refused to torture and more buildings had come down. Would righteousness be worth the loss of life -- particularly if our own kin had died? That seems to me to be the issue. Then versus now; us versus them.
“Us vs them” is not an excuse, or do you approve of US soldiers being tortured when the enemy knows a US attack is imminent? How about a US spy who knew the location of the D-Day invasion? From the German point of view, was the SS justified in torturing a US operative? Or how about to rescue an abducted child?
We made our moral judgement that torture was never acceptable as US policy. It was the right decision. No matter what the scenario, her willing participation removes her from any leadership consideration.
I understand the CIA not wanting another political hack like Pompeo as Director, but Haspel’s intimate involvement with torture—especially her apparently amoral and unquestioning obedience to superiors with regard to torture and the video evidence documenting it—absolutely disqualifies her in my book.
As reported in the article, “More than 100 retired generals and admirals plan to release a letter on Monday saying they believe she is unfit to lead the C.I.A. because of her role in the interrogation program and destroying the videos. The letter was organized by retired Gen. Charles C. Krulak, the former Marine Corps commandant.
‘We do not accept efforts to excuse her actions relating to torture and other unlawful abuse of detainees by offering that she was “just following orders,” ‘ they wrote.” Good for them; the Senate should listen and act accordingly.
5
Why are we reading about an influence campaign? I thought the CIA was prohibited from political activity within the USA. Doesn’t this point to the real problem, a culture of impunity?
4
We've reached the point where we have to chose between a torturer and a modern Republican and it's not an easy choice.
2
Is there any difference? :-)
1
Haspell is not a good choice. She is ethically flawed and perhaps the best of the worst.
Surely the agency has better candidates available?
7
I am really not in favor of a someone who oversaw torture leading the CIA. But I suspect Donald's next pick is someone like Tim Cotton.
I guess in this regime, it couldn't be clearer-- pick your poison.
5
The CIA was never intended to be the Sisters of Charity. In 1919, Japan donated 3000 Cherry trees which now surround our Nation Mall. In 1920, Japan, the Trojan Horse having been accepted, started its US spy ring with a goal of invasion. In 1937, their efforts led to John Semer Farnsworth, a US Naval Academy graduate attempting to hand the US Naval Secret code to Japan. A war ensued, including Japanese officers eating alive US Sailors and pilots — and everyone in the squadron of US President Geo. H. W. Bush, except Bush himself. Next time you run the Cherry Blossom Marathon, remember the so called gift from Japan. The CIA must be prepared to deal with very bad people. We do not need to staff the CIA with Mister or Ms milk toast.
6
I agree with the sentiment that ‘ Espionage cannot be a bowl of cherries‘. But I wonder where you get your stories from, and they sound pretty effective, should word get back to potential targets.
Torture doesn't work, breaks our own laws, subjects our own military to torture and creates more terrorists. Other than that it's a great idea.
If she becomes the CIA's next deputy director, she'll have a chance for a "make-good" -- assuming, that is, she takes the high road and clears the air of her abhorrent involvement in torturing a terrorism suspect. Anything to keep The Donald fingers out of the agency's upper echelons.
2
And we can do nothing but basically watch a torturer be confirmed CIA Director. The CIA, the Republican Congress, and the worst of the lot, Trump, will make this happen. That is not to say that the Democrats should not fight this appointment. They need to at the very least represent the outrage which so many Americans have over this woman and her, I believe, criminal actions. Someone has to stand up for decency, civility, and morality. If not us, who? With each egregious act spewing from our government, the bigot, racist, nativist, and thug of this country become more determined than ever to maintain this new "status quo."
Ms Haspel is but one more symbol of the degradation of our government under Trump, yet another player in this game of corruption rampant and running amok.
Something has to give. This is no longer the America I was once proud of.
10
In her photo, Haspell is smiling a broad smile. It seems that at night she sleeps a deep sleep and for her all is forgotten. Otherwise, why is she smiling?
"Se la vie?"
3
Brennon - who praises Haspel here - at one point withdrew his name for consideration to the CIA's top post because of his connection with torture and extraordinary rendition. Several years later he was appointed to that position.
However two months after Brennon was appointed CIA director - Brennon replaced Gina Haspel in her then-role of head of the CIA's National Clandestine Service - a small department within the CIA which among other things conducts psychological operations.
To have one individual (Brennon) withdrew his name because of connections to torture and later fired this individual (Haspel) for her position in directing torture programs simply raises more questions than it answers.
Was Gina Haspel "just following orders?" Yes, I believe she was. Her and countless others. One does not have a 33-year career in anything if you're not willing to follow orders.
5
How quickly we forget the mood of this country following the 9/11 attacks. It is so easy, 17 years later, to attack the urge we all felt to use any means necessary. Even bleeding-heart liberals, such as myself, were willing to look the other way. We need to put these actions into context before we leap to judgement.
3
Torture is not only ineffective but illegal. I despise your argument - a civililzed society deigns to torture - no matter what the conditions.
4
Mr. Pierce, you write that after 9/11 "we all felt to use any means necessary." You might have been willing to look the other way when the U.S. adopted torture and went to war against nations that had done nothing to harm us, like Iraq. An awful lot of the rest of us weren't. We opposed the assault on Afghanistan (remember that the 9/11 perps were mostly Saudis.) Later, millions of people around the world demonstrated against the planned invasion of Iraq. The government didn't listen, and its headlong rush to vengeance spawned ISIS and still leaves us embroiled in war over there.
4
There were plenty of Americans who knew better than to adopt an ends justify the means argument, when the means were patently immoral, illegal, and ineffective. The reason the Bush administration, the C.I.A. and the military tried to hide the torture operations from the American people, even as they were being described in foreign newspapers (and, eventually, our own) is they knew what they were doing was wrong and would not be accepted by decent Americans who expect (or at least hope for) their country to set an example for the world to follow. These black site operations left the United States with no moral authority to criticize the torture and murder operations of terrorist organizations and brutal authoritarian regimes. Instead, they normalized such behavior.
2
Given Trump caved to CIA's pressure last October to delay release, would be good to see Senators ask Ms. Haspel if whether now, 54+ years after JFK's assassination, and 25+ years after the JFK Records Act mandated full disclosure, she finally supports compliance with the law and release of all remaining documents in unredacted form, regardless of the many other documents that were previously destroyed, went "missing," etc.?
4
It is truly remarkable that such villains, our CIA leadership who lied about WMDs and made our nation the shame and terror of the world, have any say at all. It is not remarkable that they see Haspel's accession as a test of their power over the American people. Why is she not under indictment, anyway?
9
Why don't people stay long at the CIA? I think John Brennan stayed only 3 or 4 years. I agree that the C.I.A's "overt messaging" does seem a little "off".
1
Shame. Simply shame on anyone who engaged in, supported, or enabled torture under the aegis of the United States.
7
Can anybody provide me with one, single “success story” about the CIA since its inception? We all know about the failures in Iran, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Chile, Central America, Iraq, Iran, East Africa, West Africa, Central Africa, and a host of other smaller debacles, but somehow after sixty years and perhaps trillions of dollars (no one knows the real number) the Agency is batting well under the “Mendoza Line.” Now they are pushing an American version of Ilse Koch as their new “fearless leader” with no real justification other than, “the good old white boys” who like to play spy games REALLY like her. I don’t get a vote on this one, nor do the other approximately 200 countries in the world, but the Senate MUST understand that those countries are all watching this little play and they WILL judge us according to the result.
6
So someone who supervised a torture center (whatever its avowed 'security' justifications) in blatant violation of both the norms of civilized conduct and international law -- including the Geneva Conventions, which the USA signed -- and then conveyed orders to destroy evidence in clear violation of the spirit if not the letter of US and international law -- should re REWARDED for these actions?
And the rationale by the CIA?
She's "the C.I.A.’s best chance to keep a political partisan from being installed". Isn't that "logic" akin to the (rejected) idea of appointing former Nazis to run postwar Europe, since they were the "best qualified" administrators?
And leaving aside the utter outrage of such a reward for criminal activities, what sort of "message" is this supposed to send to the rest of the world, including our generally-law-abiding allies? How can the USA possibly have ANY moral authority in the wake of such an outrage?
8
If Gina Haspel gets just one vote to be the next CIA Director, that will tell you just how little hope there is for the United States. Ms. Haspel believes in torture, and that is all we need to know. Many will likely suggest this comment is naïve, but the truth is that torture is un-American and anyone who has supported torture is not qualified to lead the CIA. The end does not justify the means—not ever. We keep prisoners at Guantanamo Bay violating basic principles dear to the American ethic, and we justify or rationalize that conduct in a number of ways, not the least of which is that the American ethic, the American rule of law, does not apply outside of the United States. That is nonsense. If our beliefs do not apply everywhere, they are worthless and we are disingenuous. It’s not very complicated.
10
i hope that whatever happened during her interview, the president was under supervision.
1
This is a gutsy woman and we need more like her. Enhanced interrogation led to the information about the whereabouts of the courier of Bin Laden. That was a brilliant gambit to water boarding that vicious terrorist who delighted in decapitating innocent civilians. The leftists will whine as they always do. Too bad. She will get confirmed and properly so.
3
BS. Enhanced interrogation, torture (just say it, buddy) did not lead to any information, that has been proven over and over. They waterboarded KSM 183 times and they had gotten everything he knew out of him before they even waterboarded him once, after the waterboarding began they just got lies. It is just common sense that torture does not work. Think it through, and pleasse respect the facts. Bin Laden was found by just boots on the ground gum-shoe tactics, years after KSM was waterboarded. For shame on you for spreading lies and violence.
5
Let's see proof that torture resulted in the info that exposed Bin Laden.
The CIA’s clandestine torture program is a stain on ours nation’s history, which undermined our national values. That Gina Haspel could be the next Director of the Agency, notwithstanding her central role overseeing this program, and the fact that Ms. Haspel’s role and the actions of other CIA figures was covered up by the intentional destruction of video recordings of the torture sessions, should be an automatic disqualification for the Directorship. Elevating Ms. Haspel would send the message, even now, that expediency is more important than accountability to the law and the values which undergirds our nation. With respect to the operations of a clandestine organization, the public needs utmost faith in that organization’s leadership. As to Ms. Haspel, the public’s trust has already been lost.
6
Unless we are going to prosecute the hundreds of US service personnel who waterboarded other military personnel during SERE training, Haspel should be confirmed. Remember that one cannot consent to torture so even if the individuals going through SERE training tacitly agreed to waterboarding, it would still be classified as torture, and those perpetrating it should be prosecuted for that crime.
Make up your own mind about whether waterboarding is torture. But if it was torture during the Bush administration, it was also torture when done during the Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, and Eisenhower administrations.
4
This woman is basically a war criminal. She oversaw torture and then destroyed any evidence that is occurred. And this is better than a partisan? This country is truly in desperate times.
9
If this woman is named head of the CIA, then the nation into which I was born is truly finished and we need to find a new name for what was once the United States of America. In my current mood, I have no suggestions for what that name might be.
6
Hard to think of a more appropriate leader of the CIA than someone who has engaged in torture and covered up evidence of torture. Americans should stop being so coy about who there are and what they do on the world stage. You are what you do.
5
She is probably not nearly as incompetent as someone Trump is likely to select
4
I agree. In spite of the torture claims, which in my mind are serious because torture does not reliably work, she appears to be a highly competent person and most likely the most competent person Trump would consider appointing. I have ZERO confidence in Trump's ability to find anyone else other than political hacks or cronies to take this important job.
1
From reading this article, it seems to me that the New York Times is a part of the "Influence Campaign". Ms Haspel is not the right candidate because her hands are bloody, so very bloody. Beaming picture aside, Ms Haspel has a reputation for participating in torture. That should disqualify her.
The reporting of disqualification is at the bottom of the article, which so many will miss. Known quality to the CIA, not to anyone else as experienced by Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee who must make the appointment decision.
7
In terms of the political calculus, let Mr. Trump nominate someone like Tom Cotton. Everyone who agrees to join the Trump administration is committing career suicide. This is
The only jobs they'll be able to get after their stint with Mr. Trump will be as hucksters on right-wing radio shows - like G. Gordon Liddy or Oliver North.
2
"As for her role of running the prison when a suspect was waterboarded, Ms. Haspel is seen inside the C.I.A. as having loyally followed lawful orders."
I believe that the record, as we have been told, is that Ms Haspel arrived after those events occurred. At any rate it's past us now. That continued dredging of dirt is a common activity in the swamp which benefits no one.
1
She was ordered to preserve torture tapes but destroyed them instead. She should not be rewarded for not following the law.
us army 1969-1971/california jd
6
The head of the CIA is its public face. Ms. Haspel does nothing public and hides her face while doing things she shouldn’t be doing. Not qualified.
2
The corruption of the state is supple the enablers take over.I wonder if the person she sign of to torture was smiling.
1
Hatch Act violations?
Torture has been proven to NOT produce reliable, actionable intelligence. Read the redacted report on the Senate Intelligence Committee Report on Torture.
What's most revealing, is that the GOP refuses to release the 6,000 page report that reveals in detail why torture doesn't produce reliable, actionable intelligence. They want to lie to the American people, not to protect us from bad guys, but to protect themselves from blame for lying to us.
Ms. Haspel is being rewarded for protecting the GOP's conspiracy to obstruct justice.
Sure, the torture victims talk, and talk and talk. But they only talk about what the torturer wants to hear. When they figure out that the torture stops if they tell the torturer what he/she wants to hear, they keep telling that story.
There are too many books about too many US soldiers and contractors revealing how ineffective torture is to believe torture is efficacious.
Ask John McCain how all US pilots successfully hid Bud Day’s nuclear secrets in spite of their torture.
Appalling.
5
Sure, give her a mulligan. Trouble is, the C.I.A., not to mention the N.S.A., has been given an awful lot of mulligans, especially in the last 16 years or so, not only about torture itself, but lying to Congress, destruction of evidence and blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions and the Fourth Amendment, just to name a few.
What's at issue here are core American values -- our moral compass. And what makes us better human beings than those who plot against us.
As John McCain, who epitomizes love of country, once said on the floor of the United States Senate, "this question isn’t about our enemies; it’s about us. It’s about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. It’s about how we represent ourselves to the world."
Surely, there must be a far better choice to do this than Gina Haspel.
17
Gina Haspel is morally unfit to serve the United States in any capacity, but most particularly as Director of the CIA.
Those such as Ms. Haspel who sanctioned and implemented waterboarding warrant prosecution not promotion. Torture is a stain on America, a betrayal of our values. We deserve a D/CIA who respects the rule of law and our principles as a nation. Gina Haspel is not that person.
22
I would agree with the CIA's goals to have Ms Haspel confirmed as the next director. It's far more important that the CIA maintains it's independence and credibility than having an extreme political Trump loyalist in charge of the agency.
And I would certainly agree with the fact that she should have, as well as did, carry out legal orders which came from the President/Administration at that time.
2
Legal orders that violated the Geneva Convention? Sure, bud, whatever helps you justify it
Another attempt by an organization already not known for operational and organizational transparency, to continue and entrench a culture of absence of accountability.
6
She should be rejected out of hand. She may be experienced but it's the wrong kind of experience. I wouldn't trust any assurances she gives at her confirmation hearings.
24
The wrongness of torture is a pretty basic and intuitive concept - are we so lost in movie worlds that we can no longer feel how wrong torture is? And if she cannot understand why torture is wrong, under all conditions, how can she be trusted with any other basics of our laws, what else would she so willingly a abrogate, and so quickly destroy the evidence? She is a criminal. We do not need her leading out CIA.
28
Libby was just pardoned for a major national security crime, specifically for exposing the identity of a CIA agent as political revenge. Pompeo, outgoing CIA director, was allowed to go through the Senate NSA confirmation process without comment.
Will Haspel be required to give her views on this pardon as part of her confirmation? Should the men and women working in dangerous roles to protect US expect Haspel's respect for their sacrifices?
7
Libby did not expose the identity of a CIA agent. He was convicted over allegedly lying about his conversation with Judith Miller. Miller has since said she was mislead by the government and his statements were truthful.
Give me a break. Libby's fellow lawyers {including many Democrats) didn`t think he had done anything wrong and the reversed his disbarment.
1
And what if the voices of those at CIA who believe that installing a director with a background in counter-terrorism is a mistake, as the agency must now be focused on very different kinds of threats?
2
"She's one of us."
Sometimes that's not the best way to choose....just sayin'.....
23
Now that the US Presidency has been turned into a laughing stock (or worse) around the entire world, why not put one of the top torturers in charge of the CIA?
24
I don’t know. Maybe give future aspiring terrorists something to mock & think about (Or In anticipation, train for)?
We need a real investigation of the Bush Admin and the Obama admin where it continued his policies.
The legal justification they used from Professor Yoo and Alberto Gonzales is less valid than the laws and the interpretations the Germans wrote to make what they did legal in the 30's/40's.
We have many thousands, possibly more than 100 thousand people who served us who willingly did what we all know is wrong and criminal regardless of the false legal arguments.
We executed Japanese officers for less than this woman did in our name.
Where is the moral courage to address these crimes?
Are we rally going to wait decades before we finally admit to them after the perps have been allowed to live their lives unpunished?
27
Just say no to Gina Haspel.
20
The CIA is drastically overstepping it’s bounds in pushing for a specific appointment. Methinks this is more GOP extreme partisanship at the expense of our nation.
22
So she oversaw the torture of at least one individual and played a leading role in destroying evidence of that event and of other torture. By virtue of those actions, she contributed to the growth of radical terrorism. If her nomination is approved, she would be a symbol galvanizing terrorist recruitment across the globe. And to top it all off, her only defense is that she was just following orders.
She should be prosecuted, not appointed CIA chief. What a Kafkaesque world we live in.
117
According to what I have read she was following orders, she didn’t come up with it on her own. As a result of Trump’s attack on our own government especially the intelligence agencies, Americans have grown to distrust those who are supposed to protect the nation. We must have faith that with proper leadership in the agencies, they will do their job in our nation’s best interest.
4
"Following orders"? Good grief.
39
Following orders is not a defense to morally reprehensible criminal conduct. Whether you looked the other way, actually ‘thunk up’ the torture program, tortured the detainee yourself, or just followed orders, you are equally guilty of torturing.
World War II taught us to say no to criminal orders.
Do not confirm a torturer.
3
Americans grew to distrust the intelligence agencies long before most people ever heard of Donald Trump. Anyone who lived through the Kennedy assassination and what now even Warren Commission staffers admit were the lies from the FBI and CIA to same; who lived through the Church Committee hearings; the House Select Committee on Assassinations Investigation; the forcing out of CIA chief Bill Colby (who was more or less cooperating with Church Committee & House Select Committee on Assassinations); the appointment of George H.W. Bush to replace Colby and the sudden lack of cooperation from CIA toward Congress and Intelligence Committees; anyone who lived through Iran-Contra and the Lawrence Walsh investigation; Jim Clapper lies to Congress under oath; John Brennan lies about CIA spying on Senate Intelligence Committee. . .
The coups abroad to oust democratically elected leaders who sought to remain neutral in the Cold World, ironically resulting in "blow-back" in nations like Iran and Syria, when the people eventually revolted against the CIA-installed dictators, and allied themselves with Russia after living through such coups.
No doubt most of the people who have worked for the FBI, CIA and NSA were/are devoted public servants and seeking to ensure safety as they best knew how, or as they were ordered, but enough went rogue & enough leaders abused the power of these agencies to raise concerns long before Trump was ever on the scene.
1
She loyally follows orders to torture. Where have I heard that before?
93
You heard it in studies of human behavior. Most notable is the one by Stanley Milgram, who published the research in 1963, showing that if given enough motivation by superiors most people would follow orders to torture. You can find a good description in Wikipedia.
If I remember correctly, the research effort had started with the intent to prove that certain groups of people (I guess Germans) were more likely to follow orders even when that implied cruelty, because those groups were on average more obedient. However, Milgram found out that obedience with extreme consequences happened regardless. In essence they were trying to explain the rise of nazism in Germany, and they found out that any national group would have succumbed to the same.
1
All of Trump’s nominees and appointees remind me of an interview I listened to this morning regarding Trump’s nominee to lead NASA. When the reporter asked if the nominee was qualified, the response was “we could do worse.” That isn’t a resounding positive assessment, but it is indicative of what has been happening in Trump world.
Why must we Americans tolerate a process based on the viewpoint that there may be someone worse or less qualified, rather than this is the best of all the candidates in the field?
Trump and Pence ran on the slogan of “Make America Great Again”, but so far all of the nominees are fatally flawed or unqualified for their jobs. A more accurate Trump slogan would have been “Let’s Make America Insignificant Again.”
44
The GOP has been grooming us to accept lower and lower standards since reagan. If you think El Trumpo is bad wait til you see what they have in mind to lower the quality of your life next!
Not just "fatally flawed or unqualified", but experienced or aspiring government saboteurs—especially in the Cabinet.
I find it offensive that the CIA propaganda notes that Haspel the Torturer began her career in counter terrorism on 9/11 - as if this were some kind of golden mantel of superiority. She is poisonous and in a normal world would be facing prosecution, not being considered to lead the CIA. Wake up, Congress. Is this someone who you really believe will be accountable?
68
As I recall, 9/11 was a massive FAILURE on behalf of the CIA. Torturing people in the aftermath does not change that.
1
It boggles my tired, old brain that this humongous outfit, the CIA, has thousands of employees and yet Haspel is the best they can come up with. What is wrong with this picture??!!
38
This would do the CIA no favor in public support. That is not good for the medium or long term.
14
Anybody with any sense knows that torture is used for one reason only, extracting confessions. A person who feels their life is threatened is going to tell you exactly what you want to hear. What a disgrace that we ever reverted to this medieval practice. The CIA just fears that Trump will nominate someone much worse. This administration has a sickness.
33
The only reason torture has ever been used throughout history is not to extract confessions, but to extract false confessions. Which begs the question why was the CIA so eager to get false confessions after 9/11?
2
A. Collective desperation.
If Ms. Haspel doesn't get confirmed, there's always John Yoo waiting in the wings -- ready, willing, able, and eager to defend any kind of torture.
15
It's not clear to me Ms. Haspel's qualifications, nor her history. In fact, I don't think it's clear to most people. But if I had to choose between Ms. Haspel and any one of the other god-awful partisan hacks nominated by Trump, I'll take the one who has stood on the front lines, warts and all.
11
So the publicly available info is that she ran rendition sites specializing in torture. We can only guess what the classified info would show. This is buying a pig in a poke.
31
Why did Pompeo promote Gina Haspel, who as Sen Rand Paul said "My opposition to her is over her direct participation in interrogation and her gleeful enjoyment of someone being tortured."?
Gleeful enjoyment.....why can I hear DJT ringing in my ears over this statement?
35
One of the darkest chapters in American history was the era of torture under President Bush. Torture is and was illegal, and in contravention of the Geneva Convention of which the US is a signatory.
US torture chambers like Abu Ghraib gave rise to new waves of extremist radicals ready to take on the hypocritical west. ISIS leadership came out of Abu Ghraib. Our program of extraordinary rendition where the US ran other torture chambers around the world for suspected jihadist radicals gave rise to new waves of extremist foot soldiers ready to take on the west.
Al Qaeda and ISIS used our shameful conduct to recruit new members from around the world. (And as a practical matter, torture is not a useful tool; it does not elicit reliable intelligence. The tortured admit to anything just to make it stop.)
We must do better than putting a torturer in charge of the CIA. “I was just following orders,” is not a vindication of these immoral acts. Nazis were not absolved of murdering Jewish people because they were just following orders. There are times when you say no and walk away from following criminal orders to torture and murder our fellow human beings.
Do not confirm a torturer. This is not who we are.
91
Now, I think you give me a good reason to change my former opinion: yes, maybe we can pick someone that doesn’t have such a terrible history… For the sake ofPromoting a better united states to the world.
As I recall, Ms. Haspel was closely involved in CIA black site torture and with the two "psychologists" from Spokane, WA who created, orchestrated and justified various CIA torture initiatives. Obviously she is not perfect, but if we learned anything from the Presidential election of 2016, passing over a candidate because she is not "perfect" can lead to more horrible results than any of us could imagine.
11
Very good point, but there are other choices for CIA director.
8
I think Mr. Trump has shown that he can't be trusted to appoint anyone remotely qualified. In the 455 days he has been in office his appointees have made a mockery of their positions. The men and women of the Agency, and the American people deserve better.
46
So how soon after a CIA Director known to endorse torture is confirmed will the torture of our own men and women in the armed forces begin to be more prevalent.
The prospect of this individual being confirmed should frighten anyone who loves a member of the armed forces - fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, cousins...
25
A bogus "choice" intended to retain a loyal technical expert in inflicting human pain.
15
So she should be confirmed even though she violated the Geneva convention on torture and then destroyed the evidence of how horrific it was because Trump can nominate someone worse if she is rejected. How about we reject all Trump nominees until he picks someone who is competent, independent and not guilty of war crimes.
128
“She was following lawful orders”..... Haven’t we heard that line before? Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
36
This feels a lot like having to choose between a gas pedal or a brake.
That the CIA supposedly prefers her should disqualify her. The CIA isn't an agency that can be trusted to police itself.
As a clandestine organization that works in secrecy, the CIA has to be accountable without the transparency of other government agencies. That's a lot less likely with someone from inside who is associated with some of the most ineffectual and counterproductive practices, as well as the most outrageous and short-sighted.
The agency is the closest we have to a secret police, or the potential to be one. Putting a "career spy" in charge of an agency with a demonstrated propensity to go rogue is akin to having a chicken in charge of the fox den.
There's good reason why in America generals are under the command of civilians. Even more so for the CIA.
We don't need a Torguemada in charge of the inquisition.
49
I think you are correct on who should be in charge of the CIA and the NSA. Homeland should not even exist and it definitely should not have overseas offices.
Your last line reminded me of this. NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUMkcBctE7c
5
I am sympathetic to the agency's belief that Haspel is their best hope to avoid a partisan taking on the Director role, to the unfair criticism they have received from Trump and to the frustration/outrage they must feel at having a president who ignores grave threats to the country and appears to be under the thumb of Putin. However, "the ends justify the means," "adults in the room" attitude is what gave us government sponsored torture. The agency woudl do well to repudiate that part of its past--no matter the cost.
16
ALL of Trump's appointments are highly suspect as we know taking the oath of loyalty to Trump will soon be demanded of her. Congress, please find your collective backbones and say "no" to these appointments. Never take the lesser of two evils, and known torturer and political partisan peg the evil list for most of us. To McConnell and the GOP.... is it so difficult for you to honor and implement the oath of office you took and start putting country and citizens before party?
18
I want her to have a hearing. But a very thorough hearing. I'd like to hear from her why she destroyed videos in spite of an order to preserve them, and what her thoughts are on the rule of law.
74
When your nickname is "bloody Gina" the optics aren't great. So, if the CIA is pushing her, that indicates the Trump administration is resurrecting the Cheney torture policies.
44
Isn't it illegal for CIA to operate on US soil in any way, shape or form? A choice between a torturer and anybody else is very simple - NEVER side with a torturer.
15
Of course we ,the people of this country,are responsible for the torture. It continues to this day in Guantanamo. No trial, just prison forever. Haspel was our tool. Deferential, glad to be of use. She's probably as 'good' as any. It takes a certain type to supervise effective,sadistic death play. Most decent human beings would find an honorable way to make a living. But we are responsible because she and her fellow sadists work for us.
5
So "officials inside the C.I.A." see this appointment as a choice between a known torturer and a political partisan. Really? There's no one else who's not one or the other? No one at all?
101
I'm sure there is a better candidate...but this is the one trump is asking to confirm. If she fails, then he could put someone even worse up for confirmation. Honestly, this is very murky waters and I don't know what to think. This is the new normal under the trump administration
8
Yes. or possibly the mass of his egregious choices, current and fired, will suffice to keep this unfit person from office.
2