Very disappointed in this piece. The Hollywood Reporter story raises some very specific issues and charges. This seems like a "puff piece" designed to pleased one side in what seems to be a very complicated matter. Article does a nice job creating questions in the reader's mine, as other comments note but the lack of context (or in-depth NYT reporting) does a disservice to both Stan Lee and the larger issue the subhead mentions. Interested readers should seek out the The Hollywood Reporter piece. It will both confirm suspicions that readers may have as well as make them aware of other (alleged) issues. Very surprised that this was the lead Sunday Styles piece in today's Times...seems like a very poor editorial choice.
4
Mr. Lee's story reminds me slightly of the story of Groucho Marx, who was said to be the victim of elder abuse in his later years.
What a shame that talent in one area does not guarantee wisdom in the financial arena. This article makes it sound like Mr. Lee is living well and comfortably. I hope he is.
5
I wouldn't exactly characterize Stan Lee's life as elder abuse, however, that being said, I would say, based on the reporting and the photos, that anyone who sports the affectation of a bowler hat AND looks and dresses like the Penguin is not to be trusted.
15
I grew up reading Marvel Comics and Stan Lee's monthly column as editor. Good for him that he lived long enough (unlike Jack Kirby and others) to see the characters he created become global phenomena. To see his legacy and estate being fought over by those whose interest is more financial than anything else is sad and a reminder of what awaits us all. Thank you, Excelsior!
6
Well, it doesn't await me, as I intend to have nothing worth fighting for at the end ;)
5
If a man is lucky he creates one fictional character that stands the test of time: A Sherlock Holmes, a Holden Caulfield, a Scarlet O'Hara. Lee created hundreds of characters that are household names. his Villains became just as famous as the heroes they fought. Each character came with a backstory, there was a reason the bad guys became bad, and there was a hidden tragedy in the origin of every hero. his characters were all created by fate in some way or another, and the reader could relate to them. Reed Richards blamed himself for what happened to his best friend Ben Grimm, Peter Parker's mistake led to the death of his beloved uncle, which made his Aunt a widow. Victor Von Doom's own Hubris destroyed his face. A psychology played through every story, Heroes were tested, Villains were let down by their own overconfidence and the lack of people who supported them, but these weren't strict morality tales, this wasn't Dick Tracey phrenology where handsome people were good and ugly people bad, you felt sympathy for some of the Villains, like the Mole Man -made fun of by his fellow humans, he wanted to make society pay for mocking him, which is part of human nature we can all understand. Some Villains-like Medusa became heroes. The Hulk seemed to be both hero and Villain, there was a complexity there, that showed without the love and caring of a few key people a hero can be a villain and vice-a versa. This twist of fate made Marvel comics ahead of its time like its creator.
33
If a man is as lucky as Stan Lee, he's got geniuses working at bargain basement rates to do most of the creating for him, and he just punches up the dialogue a bit, and makes (usually good) suggestions.
He was an editor, much more than he ever was a writer. His own writing, sans Kirby, Ditko, et al, was never impressive. But he knew how to sell in a way they didn't. He deserves his share of the credit, but he sometimes had a tendency to take more than his share, and he was in a position to do so. And now that he's outlived all his old collaborators, he can tell the story any way he likes. Sure, Stan, you had the idea of a black superhero. Not Kirby, who introduced all kinds of minority characters, even a Native American named Wyatt Wingfoot. You go on and tell that story.
And so, even if he did get robbed, I'm not shedding any tears for him. He really was the luckiest guy in the world, or at least in the comic book world. I admire his youthful spirit, I acknowledge his genuine contributions, but genius? C'mon. A very inspired hustler. And there's something to be said for that.
8
Lee's genius was in giving the characters their psychology. Joe Simon claimed that he proposed what became Spider Man when he had a prototype for a hero called the Silver Spider. And maybe Lee and Ditko were aware of that when they created that. But a Simon and Kirby Spider Man would never have had the real world mentality and neuroses of Peter Parker. He did more than create hype, he made those characters relatable in a way that nobody except maybe Will Eisner had done in comics before. Did he arrogate some credit that should have gone to Kirby & Ditko? Sure, and those guys are titans of the art. But that doesn't mean Lee isn't one as well.
1
Excellent observation.
2
Sadly few elderly people with a considerable amount of money are immune to "Elder" abuse. The current Sumner Redstone saga comes to mind. We will probably never know the true story here, as the cast of characters swirling around Stan like vultures will never tell the truth. And yes, it's sad. Hopefully Stan is at least enjoying his remaining years. I owuldn't compare him to Disney, but he's a close second in the world of entertainment.
10
When Stan passes on as he eventually must I hope he gets the kind of tribute that Jack Kirby did on Saturday Night Live. Here it is from the SNL transcript web site. "Some sad news. Jack Kirby, the man responsible for creating superheroes for Marvel Comics, died this week. Funeral services will not be held, however, as they are planning to bring him back in a future issue.
I like to think that Kirby would have loved that.
19
Pablo Picasso was never in the United State, It would have been impossible for him to do the drawing that is spoken about near the end of the piece of Mrs. Lee dinning with her husband at an NYC restaurant.
2
What? Stan Lee embellished this story? By the Mystic Moguls of Megador!!!! Impossible! There must have been s cosmic shift in the alternative universe allowing Picasso to remain in France while astral projecting himself to New York to enjoy a corned beef sandwich at Katz's
11
Painful to read. He's rich (despite the apparent ongoing theft) but what he receives are crumbs compared to what he would have if he'd been surrounded by more honest people and had more of a lawyer's/accountant's knack for digits.
14
He doesn't need the extra money. He has plenty to live well on. And he is obviously happier than he would have been if he had been obsessed with money.
10
Not sure when this interview took place. There is a heartbreaking video circulating of Mr. Lee signing his name at Silicon Valley Comic Con last week with an assistant who appears to be 'reminding' him how to spell his name.
7
Stan Lee is only worth $50M? That’s it? How could that be true?
5
Great guy!
4
Stan Lee created : The Fantastic Four, Spiderman, Daredevil, Thor, Hulk etc, but he had help. The Artist Jack Kirby was there at the start, he created the visuals to Stan Lee's ideas. According to Kirby ( Deceased) Lee would give him a rough idea of the plot and Kirby would take it from them, scripting and drawing the comic. This system has been identified by the other artists who worked with Lee, that he would come with an idea and leave them to the hard work of actually drawing and scripting the story, it's one of the ways that Lee could knock out as many comics as he did a month. I guess in many ways Disney was the same, he didn't animate his classic movies or come up with the script or the songs, he just had the idea and assembled the creative people to get the job done. But Anyone who knows comics knows how important Kirby and Steve Ditko ( Spiderman, Dr Strange) were to the creation of these beloved characters. Kirby had a famous falling out with Lee and his Estate has never been properly enumerated for his legacy, but in every way what Kirby and Lee had was a true partnership and many believe Kirby did all the work and Lee took all the glory.
6
I've heard this too, but when Kirby finally went out on his own and tried to write his own comics, they failed badly. He failed not due to his artwork, obviously, but due to his writing including his dialogue, so the theory that Stan was only supplying 'ideas' (whatever level of detail that implies or doesn't imply) seems to be an inaccurate slant. The dialogue that worked in the Marvel comics credited to Kirby and Lee came from somewhere, but apparently not from Kirby. It may be the case that Stan Lee provided the story arc to Kirby, Kirby drew it and wrote initial dialogue, and Stan later heavily revised that dialogue. That's the only possible explanation (if this system was indeed used at all), in which case Stan was more heavily involved creatively that the new trend of dumping on Stan Lee would have us believe.
16
It's a matter of conjecture, both men have their sides of the story, but we can agree that Kirby was a very disgruntled employee by the end, Kirby also said that having a black character (Black Panther , was his idea). But one thing is for certain, the visualization of the characters was all Kirby. I am going by a Jack Kirby interview I read, but I must admit I did wonder, in listening to Kirby's speech patterns, I could see him writing the dialogue for The Thing, same pattern of speech, but not Reed Richards or Thor, I man how would Kirby know about Norse Mythology. I could see Kirby scripting The Incredible Hulk, but not The Avengers, with its various characters and voices. The thing about Stan Lee was that he was able to explore so many different avenues of human nature, as well as space Travel, metaphysics, Norse mythology, the Arcane Arts and eastern philosophies, as well as the teen angst of Peter Parker, in many ways he is more like Shakespeare than Disney. Which makes it hard to believe that he was writing all those comics with their flowery dialogue, scientific knowledge, historical details etc. I think, very much how you can tell a John Lennon written song from a McCartney song, you can tell the parts Kirby wrote and the parts Lee wrote.
I largely agree, but you are being a little too harsh on Kirby's later work. New Gods and the like don't have the polish and zesty dialog of early Marvel, but they are fascinating in their own right. I would not call them failures. Lee clearly breathed life into the interior worlds of these creations. And his work with Ditko even moreso. Ditko's own work as the writer is interesting, but didactic to the extreme, nothing like the lively writing in Spider Man.
1