To Bannon, Tariffs on China Will Be Ultimate Test of Trump’s Beliefs

Interesting times: Bannon’s nationalist policies worked in winning Trump the White House and linger on in Trump’s Twitters; for China Xi’s domestic image is contained in the ‘Chinese Dream’ of being the world’s wealthiest nation by the centennial of the 1949 Revolution and an unyielding stand on sovereignty, China Sea included. The problem with Nationalism is that when matters go sour an easy solution is militarization to rally the troops against a foreign oppressor. Bannon gives us ten years and he has been (unfortunately) correct before. Perhaps Wall St.’s love of China will intervene and save us all. Make a good movie?

I hadn’t realized Steve Bannon’s ramblings still constituted “news.”

Regardless of one’s opinion on the proper amount of military spending, the old “guns and butter” analogy still holds. One aspect of that analogy is that resources used for military purposes cannot be used for civilian purposes. Thus, a way to have a society have the most powerful military ever and still not deprive civilians of anything, is to buy the resources from foreigners. Paying for the net imports that replace resources devoted to the military with borrowed money, makes it even less conspicuous. Protectionism is the progressivism of fools. Gandhi was a great statesman but a horrible economist. Just as the ignorant in the USA argue that American workers who earn $15 per hour should not have to compete with Chinese workers who make $2 per hour, Gandhi thought that Indian workers should not have to compete with American and European workers who have the benefit of modern machines. As a result, India adopted protectionism. In 1947 the per capita income of India was similar to countries such a South Korea. By 1977 the per capita income and standard of living in South Korea was many times that of India. India has since largely abandoned protectionism and has benefited immensely from free trade. Just as David Ricardo proved would be the case when he developed comparative advantage..." https://seekingalpha.com/article/4148256

So were the massive infusions of cash into the economy by The Fed in Quantitative Easing I and II cheating or just a little sleight of hand?

“This is far greater than trade; this is far deeper than tariffs,” Bannon is right. He is saying what everyone has known for a decade but ignored out of the deference to the outsourcer crowd.

Really?? Are we back to even caring about what Steve Bannon thinks? .... His time in the spotlight ended months ago, and the irrevocable damage he's caused this country is already done. Time for him to retreat back into the shadows and stay there.

Bannon is a tragic figure at odds with the world. He is pitiable

Who cares what Bannon thinks?

Can someone please explain to me how tariffs would help American workers? I grew up in a town that was centered around a giant textile mill, which closed in the early 2000‘s because they couldn’t compete with foreign manufacturers. It seems like, with our labor standards, we will never be able to manufacture things like textiles and electronics as cheaply as places like China. Would we have to eliminate things like child labor laws, safety standards, and fair wages in order to compete? And if so, would that really benefit American workers?

Just remember President Jefferson signed the 1807 Embargo act thinking it would punish England and France to stop harassing us in international shipping. It devastated our own economy instead. Unintended consequences. This economic warfare with China could end up in the same way.

While Bannon fears China, I am hopeful about the future relationship between China and the U.S. China is on a track of reform, and I predict its economy and society will be more open 5 years from now, not less. Capital markets will be more open, which will force discipline on corporations to improve business practices and corporate governance. People will inevitability have more ways to express themselves, thanks to social media (sorry censors). In regards to intellectual property protection, it is now one of the fastest growing industries in China. Law firms and patent companies are all jumping in. Even Doraemon has a patent in China that protects its use! On global matters, China is increasingly becoming more engaged. It contributes significant peacekeeping troops to the UN, more than most other countries. China has a deep appreciation for the US. For instance, there were more Cadillacs sold in 2017 in China (175,000) than any other country in the world (including the U.S. - 156,000). It is viewed as an iconic American brand, which Chinese love. In total, GM sold over 4 million cars in China last year and dominates the market. China is GM's largest car market. There is a strong buy American/Foreign mentality. Why do you think there are import tariffs? These connections will get only stronger over time. Sometimes China takes a disappointing step or two backwards but so do other countries. Mr. Bannon, it's going to be okay.

Bannon is light-years ahead of the readership of this newspaper in understanding this extraordinary moment in history. He's right about globalization. Its spectacular failure is destabilizing the entire developed world, which is unraveling at an alarming rate. There's no question, whatsoever, that there will be a revolution. The only question is whether it will be peaceful or violent. The former is achievable, but we need to rebalance the global economy. Even China knows that its stunning success has come at the expense of the West's middle classes, and probably wishes American companies weren't so eager to send all those middle class jobs to China for the past 25 years. But it's not like it could say "You're going too far. Stop selling out your fellow Americans". All Bannon is doing is riding the resulting extraordinary wave of anger across the developed world. If he drops the racism, the anti-Islam nonsense, and doing stupid things like endorsing Moore and sticks to the global middle class revolution, he will be better served. NYT readers underestimate him at their own peril. Jack Ma, a visionary, is quoted in this paper today saying that if a trade war starts, tens of millions of jobs will be destroyed, but if relations improve, millions will be created. And he's right. China has proven that nationalism and globalism are not mutually exclusive. We need to find common ground with China to resolve this and make globalization a win/win if we're to avoid a cataclysm.

The American public is not responsible for whatever damaged the psyche of the child Bannon once was. What appears on camera is a desperately unhappy man who would punish the world for his own deep seated mental issues. Inevitably this pathetic individual will pass from the scene. His kind and Trump always do..

I'm confused here; who is Bannon speaking to? He's no longer welcome at alt-right Breitbart, he was fired at WH, he's implicated in Cambridge Analytica scandal. In short, doesn't he have enough problems without shouting about a 'nationalist' agenda down an empty well?

The assumption by many on the comment board that the present approach is unpopular is probably overstated. If anything, Trump has gained national political strength with his actions. The level is undetermined, but it likely will have an impact in November. American farmers are presently in a tight spot, but relief could be imminent. Major alternative producers of soybeans, who export, are Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Canada. American public will likely not approve of Canada as a replacement. Keep in mind NAFTA, and the US is the international porting outlet for Alberta heavy oil. Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay have to go through the Panama Canal, or the eastern transit route through the Malacca Strait. Abrogation of the Torrijos-Carter treaties is a remote possibility, but it now is a strategic move in this developing Trade War. China definitely does not want that occurrence.

Bannon is a nut case. His whole isolationist ideology is out of step with the times, and his access to Trump about tariffs helped get us in this mess. I suspect that like Trump, Bannon has had people cleaning up his messes his entire life. The less said about Bannon, the better. May he fade into obscurity, and soon.

Bannon should worry given Trumps penchant for changing his mind. I am surprised they do not sell MAGA flip-flops on the website.

There is no Trump movement. There is only Trump's whims based on whatever he has heard that morning on Rupert Murdoch's Fox "News" channel. Bannon is a dope. A dangerous dope, but a dope nevertheless. I wish The Times would ignore him.

When the tariffs hit the farmers in the groin, not to mention all those laid off in factories dependent on imported steel and aluminum, just for starters, we'll see how delighted Trump's base is by his "solutions" for their problems.

" The Dumpsterfire of the Vanities ". Just go away. Please.

Bannon is no more of a deep thinker than his former pal Trump. Both share an absurd, over-simplified understanding of how the world operates. To announce trade results before talks have even begun is the height of arrogance and stupidity.

And Steve Bannon's musings are worth reporting because....? He is a non-newsworthy subjecy by now, I would hope....

This article could have been written as is without any reference to Steve Bannon. Why is the NYT keeping the flame of Bannon alive? Navarro shares the same views regarding China trade. What was not mentioned is that Bannon sees a war between the US and China in the next 5-10 years. Who in their right minds would want to give validation to that 'idea'. Stop giving Bannon gravitas. He was fired and has been let go from Brietbart with good cause. He and his nationalist dog whistles need to go away. He is nothing but another hater ginning up the division.

If the China threat is as grave as Bannon says, then why is he in favor of alienating the US' largest potential economic allies (the EU and countries of the TPP)? China is big, but the US plus the rest of the world is still bigger. So a rational response to such a grave threat would be to partner with these potential allies, even if such partnerships don't greatly benefit you 100% of the time (acceptable, because you're saying the China threat is so grave). The fact that Bannon pushes the opposite suggests he is operating out of hate, not thought. And that hate is making him stupid.

This man is not a trained economist. He is not a seasoned diplomat. He is not even an asian studies major....... He is however, trying to influence economic policy for the United States outside of our government. And somehow he has been given a voice. Why would he want to destroy our relationship with the biggest investor in our currency? Why would he essentially want to dismantle the established flow of goods between China and the United States? The bigger question here is the agenda of disruption, the agenda to seize the economy in the service of corporate powers that want to control the flow of goods, of news and of your reality. Its a very sinister and frankly quiet revolution.....big oil, government control of the economy, taxes adjusted for the few to benefit, the end of the private citizen. Steve Bannon is just the mouthpiece of Sauron, spewing the narrative of a "deep state" and trying to get Trump back on track as he publicly spontaneously combusts.

If you've lost Bannon, you've lost . . . er, you've lost . . . wait, give me a sec.

I'm sorry, Steve who?

The reason Trump&Co are in the White House is because previous lib/con politicians have neglected to take on the Evil Han Empire. Bill was busy with Monica, George with fulfilling his promise to daddy and Barack ducking the domestic intolerant right, aka the Tea Party movement. Or, to put it another way: Bill was planning for the future, only it was Hillary's future and not your country's future. George chased ghost weapons in Iraq, while the real ghost, who had brought death to the rust belt, was free to spread its disease to more and more advanced sectors of your economy. Barack fought for his precious, never realizing the lack of universal health care insurance is a symptom, and not the disease. As the nineties came and went, so too the following decades while people discovered the internet, SMS and Facebook. Western economies slowly but surely degraded into so-called service economies, or app economies, where former factory workers' sons and daughters work as Uber gig-slaves and cupcake-baking daydreamers, while the children of the upper middle class, now kneeling from student debt, are forced to train their new Indian colleagues, who promptly replace them for a fraction of their salary. A lib/con free-trade nirvana, where "everybody" benefits and where Chicago school economists' trickle-down effect brings riches to those of us who crawl on all four on the floor, while munching the crumbles which have fallen down from the outsource-capitalists' dinner tables.

Is a trade deficit with China really so bad for our country? Intellectual property rights are not the main focus of these tariff's and Mr Trump cites trade deficit dollars, whether accurate or not, as the motive. If it is about intellectual property rights, then focus on that. Meanwhile, these tariffs and this looming trade war threatens the heartland and impacts the hard working people of this country. How many of our businesses, including Trump businesses, manufacture in China because it is cheaper? Meanwhile, Mr Trump and Bannon attack our tech industries, tries to restore last century steel and coal jobs and complains about China being on the forefront of artificial intelligence and robotics. This is warped and the rhetoric is dangerous.

I am huge supporter of Stephen K. Bannon. I agree with his emphasis on traditionalism, nationalism, and destruction of the administrative state. Thank you.

In the final analysis, Steve Bannon is irrelevant, a sideshow, a Sarah Palin-style flash in the pan. Unfortunately, he will continue to debase the public discourse and undermine our democracy until he is completely gone from view.

China cheats. Even Elizabeth Warren agrees. This has been building for 25 years. Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama none of them had the guts to confront. Bannon is correct. A clash of civilizations is coming.

Steve Bannon deals in fantasy. He tells fairy tails to people who want fairy tales, and his connection to reality is that he is happy to take their money in exchange.

Classically Trumpian to assume nothing was ever done before January 2017 to reduce China import tariffs, and that he alone is capable of attacking this issue. I don't believe he ever paid any attention to global economic issues or statistics before 2017. The NY Times should do an article tracing China's previous 200%+ automotive import duties in the 90s, which were continuously reduced through a lot of hard negotiating by previous administrations to 120%, then 80%, and finally 25% today. Reductions from here are like taking credit for today's 4.1% unemployment rate vs. 4.3% a year ago, ignoring Obama inherited a figure over 9%.

"A couple of bad days in the stock market" could potentially wipe out the life savings of an ordinary American. A cavalier attitude about that could come only from someone who most would consider an "elite."

Trump doesn't have beliefs, other than to thy own self-aggrandizement be true. Bannon comes off as clueless when he says otherwise.

Bannon is wrong, sort of. The political alignment is not exactly “globalist vs. nationalists”. It is “capital vs. nation states”. Capital embraces free trade because it breaks the power of nation states to establish wage, labor, environmental, immigration, and tax laws, all of which increase costs and lower returns.

China's unfair economic practices are, by and large, violations of the WTO rules, and thus all free and fair trade nations are equally disadvantaged by China's cheating. Therefore, it ought to have been reasonably easy to put together a coalition of affected nations led by the US to aggressively, systematically, consistently pressure China to obey the rules. Of course, severe universal tariffs should be threatened from the beginning of that process, and implemented as a last resort. Instead Trump's insane go-it-alone approach is causing America's allies to pull for China in this dispute, for it is clear that is Trump were to win against China then, mad with success, he would use the same unilateral bullying tactics against everyone. The foolishly hard line Trump has pushed in the NAFTA negotiations amplifies this picture in the eyes of international players. Given a choice between a bullying, my-way-or-the-highway Trump-Bannon approach to international relationships, the world has been driven into the absurd position of hoping China is successful in forcing Trump to back down. The question now is, just how insanely stubborn is Trump? How much damage can he do to the American economy and to his base before they abandon him. And the answer, my friends, is not blowing in the wind--it is heavily dependent on Fox News. As long and Murdoch supports Trump via his propaganda outlet, Trump's base will hold, especially if Trump provides significant subsidies to those affected.

Bannon and Trump are selling the same snake oil to the same victims and are succeeding for the same reasons of ignorance that all other snake oil salesmen have success. A lot of people have found themselves and their communities deteriorating as good union manufacturing jobs were lost. However, the idea that those jobs will come back if we just put up trade barriers is nothing but snake oil. The manufacturing of the future will be done by robots and machines with a minimum of human work involved. We ABSOLUTELY need to help those people and communities - but snake oil is not going to help them.

Xi is once again beating Trump. He is winning the public relations battle. The U.S. will get minor wins with a few trivial tariff reductions, but will not make a significant dent. Xi will look like the reasonable leader without giving up much. China will continue to thrive and the U.S. will continue to decline with rapidly rising debt and little investment in future innovation. It will be similar to Trump's first bombing of Syria or his talk about border wall. A big nothingburger from Trump and another win for China.

Tariffs are the system of measurement for the Trump ‘movement’ says Steve Bannon. Where does he get the idea that threatening our economics in such a misbegotten way is success in the bankruptcy of Trump’s governance?

Why would ANYONE pay attention or even listen to this man's incoherent ramblings? He has been wrong about everything since Trump became president. And let's not forget, Trump didn't win a majority of the votes; he won because of the Electoral College, an 18th Century construct. He is a shabbily dressed Newt Gingrich, a smaller-than-life egomaniac with ideas that he has smashed together from mis-reading various books

If Bannon had stayed and continued to lead Trump around by the nose, we’d be in the midst of World War Three by now.

3 months after the tariff is put in place Trump: Who knew that a trade war would be so complicated?

The abstract branding phrases in which Steve Bannon and Donald Trump indulge themselves are nearly meaningless to me. "Nationalists vs. globalists" -- are the consequences of the policies of Bannonite America Firsters vs. those of hawkish neoliberals like Hillary Clinton significantly different for the poorest 20% in the USA? Are they significantly different for the millions of people in other countries who have lost homes, limbs, livelihoods, and loved ones to the consequences of our nation's military and economic violence, over the many decades since World War 1? I am skeptical.

Sooo, Bannon is not an expert on anything, but wants to dictate global economic policies? Way to go, Republicans.

When the astronauts went into space and looked back to Earth what did they see? A small blue beautiful planet in the vastness of space. They didn't see any borderlines dividing it into separate nations. As long as we have artificial nations we will have war, in one form or another.

If you want to know how much trouble we're in, consider the fact that we've ever heard of Steve Bannon as anything more than an obscure nutbar of a host for a cable TV show out of Decatur, Illinois.

When Ryan and McConnell, along with Adelson and other major party donors, all refuse to support a trade war, you know the trump threats are phony; for each and every one of them, self-interest is a core value. The country's interests come in a poor second to personal fortunes and political careers.

I don't get it. Who cares what Bannon thinks about the tariffs? The Times has buried the real news in a tiny lead below the Bannon article: Amid Trade Tensions, Xi Urges Dialogue, Not Confrontation https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/business/xi-jinping-china-trade.html This should have been the headline. Consider some of what it says: "Mr. Xi highlighted areas where China was willing to give, including pledging to ease restrictions on imported cars by the end of the year as well as repeating open-ended promises to give foreigners greater access to the country’s financial markets — promises officials have made in past. He also pledged to strengthen intellectual property rights, addressing one of Mr. Trump’s main complaints." Why isn't this deserving of a headline? It's a concession to some of Trump's major concerns? Maybe it's because the Times doesn't believe President Xi? Personally, I think that Xi is generally more truthful than Trump. The article on the BOAO conference doesn't even allow reader comments. I'm disappointed in this editorial decision. Xi's willingness to make concessions should be big news (even if he doesn't follow through). The Times front page has recently been all Trump. Can we make some space for others?

Bannon acts like Trump actually has any policy ideas that make sense. Bannon like Trump will soon be irrelevant and it can't come soon enough.

Tariffs will hurt farmers. Trump’s answer to this is to subsidize crops. Not sure how this helps Americans. The tariffs will raise the price of consumer goods and food. The subsidies will come from taxes and contribute to the deficit. This isn’t just voodoo economics it’s black magic.

Someone appears to have introduced Steve Bannon to facial concealer-makeup. It's about time. There's a limit to the benefits that can accrue from a more carnivorous nationalism. Clearly, Trump is more about finding a better balance, rather than fighting some esoteric and all-out “globalism” vs. “nationalism” war with the gloves off. If he can get bilateral trade agreements re-negotiated that are fairer to U.S. interests, he’ll tank the tariff increases, and Bannon can go play in Mumbai traffic. Bannon is attempting to do here what Ann Coulter did so effectively over the Wall, resulting in National Guard troops being dispatched to guard our southern border. The differences are that Bannon isn’t as hot as Coulter by about fifteen galaxies, and Coulter represents the strongly-held views of millions of Trump’s base; while Bannon is flogging an issue that hardly resonates with that base beyond what Trump likely will do on trade. I know Ann Coulter, Mr. Bannon (sadly, only from her books, appearances and “Nation” column), and, let me tell you: you’re no Ann Coulter.

I just don't buy Bannon's nationalism vs. globalism narrative. There could never be a decisive winner in a competition of this nature. Of course The U.S. wants to sell its goods and services to as many people in the world who can get access to them and afford them. The same goes for other countries' desire to sell to the U.S. In order to make the greatest number of people happy (i.e. 'the greatest good for the greatest number' utilitarianism) there needs to be international standards and practices that all parties agree to and make a good faith effort to abide by. Nationalism does play a role in the international market, but the international market is the matrix where exchanges of goods and services occur. It's difficult to envision another arrangement. Zero-sum thinking is ultimately a losing proposition. Cooperation and international standards is the best way forward.

Bannon sees the forces of nationalism and globalism engaged in a Manichean struggle, with the evil elites on the side of globalism. The reality of economics is of no concern to him. He admits he doesn't care how many Americans will be hurt financially. Meanwhile, he is a wealthy man flitting around the globe, supported by elite billionaires. He is more like Stalin, imposing his economic theory on the masses no matter the cost, than a true populist.

While it's true that China should be penalized for its rampant intellectual property theft and some other unfair trade practices, it's profoundly unwise and recessionary to back off from globalization and international trade treaties that in fact keep the 2018 American economy prospering. The real Trumpian disgraces are the refusal (and abandonment) of investment in American infrastructure, education, green energy, mass transportation, new airports and the common good while China and other modern economies race ahead in these sectors, thereby leaving America in a smoking rubble of third-worldism and fat billionaires funding a fake democracy of Russian-Republican oligarchs. Steve Bannon is an anarchist; he has some reasonable ideas, but on balance he is destructive and his methods are destructive, just as his wretched Birther-Liar-In-Chief is destructive. It's 2018, and decades of Republican regression have sunk America into a fetid Trumpian Toilet. American needs to flush hard on November 6 2018. https://www.rockthevote.org/donate/

Bannon is a failing extremist who wants to define the terms by which we live with a dog whistle and blinders on. Bannon, Trump, and their base only see the world as a series of a death battles, never as a place where we must learn to co-exist. It will be unfortunate to see people get significantly harmed with extremist, nationalist policies, but elections have consequences and many people won't learn until they've been hurt by their delusional thinking.

Of course China's economy will eventually be larger than that of the US, and it should be: it's population is over 4 times that of the US. In fact, the only way that the US economy can remain larger than that of China is if you believe that somehow US citizens are entitled to a standard of living that is substantially better than that of Chinese citizens. In fact, what you really want to happen is that worldwide economic growth accelerates so that the standard of living of all of the world's citizens over time improves and evens out. And an extensive world wide trading environment is the best way to make that happen.